From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 22 09:42:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08EE3106566C for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:42:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andy.kosela@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.231]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F518FC19 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:42:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andy.kosela@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so8787717rvf.43 for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:42:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=Swlh33tayfE4e339XyjPtPQYyCu62Ns1yyOPXrxcFyk=; b=ApFJKSlUGb9N8PLwrwW/h2IgrtW+Xn9hYx/jst5y1/EszM3uogm9859gGrA1Jn/GIG TLYq70qFrZvbn2R+FWMZpC1+f5Nlbw5xKYbe7V/R42sxSpf/5on0VjEjdceCVZpUCFef SLV67tbyBwqdPki8fzL/HiMn48sOFRhu42ybo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=S5FQHvKISmPj4/t8g/YoR26mzKwoVBJtKmazOVMoj8B+DailYNVtR+jBrmCBf4KqGI woYKnAzPeuaLIstaLhBZGUo3X5LaMn/T81+sQKLIuM2iy8Pf4TDlVmSWc+HxaGFU2RtX /ZV1aFc8GdKS/c1X+kPf+7Sa6Fs63PrsWcYZc= Received: by 10.141.113.6 with SMTP id q6mr10556121rvm.135.1214126179940; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.112.6 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3cc535c80806220216t7c593583g88e66e44f5e58eed@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:16:19 +0200 From: "Andy Kosela" To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Tape library HP MSL6030 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:42:06 -0000 We are in the process of buying HP MSL6030 tape library. Our hardware provider is suggesting to use it with RHEL 5 and HP Data Protector software. However I would like to know what is the status of FreeBSD 7 support for this? Anyone using it in a production environment? and what software would you recommend? bacula, amanda, dump, rsync? -- Andy Kosela ora et labora From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 23 10:56:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977B1106566C for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:56:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from proks@logos.sky.od.ua) Received: from logos.sky.od.ua (logos.sky.od.ua [81.25.224.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C148FC21 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:56:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from proks@logos.sky.od.ua) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by logos.sky.od.ua (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EA6102CF6 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:31:57 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:31:57 +0300 (EEST) From: "Prokofiev S.P." To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080623130949.N41108@logos.sky.od.ua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: ata driver and nvidia chipset problem ? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:56:03 -0000 I was installed FreeBSD 7-Stable i386 on motherboard Asus M2N-VM HDMI (chipset nvidia GeForce 7050PV/ nForce 630A(MCP68PVNT)) and 2 hdd : Seagate ST3250410AS SATA300. But I see by dmesg: ... ad4: 238475MB at ata2-master UDMA33 acd0: DVDR at ata2-slave UDMA33 ad6: 238475MB at ata3-master UDMA33 and by atacontrol: >atacontrol mode ad4 current mode = UDMA33 ata driver is not known this chipset ? Best regards, Sergey Prokofiev From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 24 11:09:47 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CF5106566B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:09:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mv@thebeastie.org) Received: from p4.roq.com (ns1.ecoms.com [207.44.130.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3B88FC14 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:09:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mv@thebeastie.org) Received: from p4.roq.com (localhost.roq.com [127.0.0.1]) by p4.roq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E03E4C373 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:52:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.jumbuck.com (p82.jumbuck.com [206.112.99.82]) by p4.roq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666CA4C2F5 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:52:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.jumbuck.com (mail.jumbuck.com [206.112.99.82]) by mail.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F1B1ACBD2B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:51:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from beaste5.jumbuck.com (ppp198-18.static.internode.on.net [59.167.198.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25C61ACBD2A for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:51:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from beaste5.jumbuck.com (beast5 [192.168.46.105]) by beaste5.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5B6209D34F for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:51:56 +1000 (EST) Received: from [192.168.46.121] (unknown [192.168.46.121]) by beaste5.jumbuck.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62DD209D195 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:08:12 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4860C78C.2070105@thebeastie.org> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:08:12 +1000 From: Michael Vince User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Subject: FreeBSD and Maxtor Basics USB drive X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:09:47 -0000 Hey everyone. I was looking at buying one of these 1 terabyte HDs for FreeBSD for backups etc, but I was wondering if there was actually a driver for it work on FreeBSD... Does any one know? http://www.maxtorsolutions.com/gb/catalog/Basics_Desktop/index.html Thanks Mike From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 11:16:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DFD1065676 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:16:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alwin.roosen@webline.be) Received: from webline.be (d5152F35C.access.telenet.be [81.82.243.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2AD8FC37 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:16:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alwin.roosen@webline.be) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:56:28 +0200 Message-ID: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? Thread-Index: AcjWsh5YvEzmxrfzSWWZNiWTIEwMGQ== From: "Alwin Roosen" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:16:35 -0000 Hello, =20 =20 I have been searching quite a bit, but found nothing useful. =20 I want to install FreeBSD onto an USB Flash Module from Transcend. The links below are the product page and datasheet in PDF. It says it should be compatible with OS that supports USB standard. =20 Can anyone confirm that this would actually work? =20 http://www.transcend.nl/Products/ModDetail.asp?LangNo=3D0 &ModNo=3D122 http://www.transcend.nl/support/dlcenter/datasheet/TS512M~4GUFM-V_H0409. pdf =20 I am also wondering if it is a good approach to use USB dongles, instead of real Solid State devices on ATA. I see a lot of USB problems in the Mailing list Archives (see link below as example). I don't understand all of that, and I know there are many USB devices which can cause these issues. My hardware supplier recommends the USB dongles, because they are cheaper and easier to install (just plug it in an 10-pin USB port on the motherboard). =20 http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/htdig/freebsd-usb/2007-January/002939.h tml =20 Thanks for your time! =20 =20 Alwin Roosen =20 From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 12:05:13 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AAE1065676 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:05:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1428FC1A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:05:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2E7C91CC038; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:05:13 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Alwin Roosen Message-ID: <20080625120513.GA27643@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:05:13 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:56:28PM +0200, Alwin Roosen wrote: > I want to install FreeBSD onto an USB Flash Module from Transcend. The > links below are the product page and datasheet in PDF. It says it should > be compatible with OS that supports USB standard. > Can anyone confirm that this would actually work? > http://www.transcend.nl/Products/ModDetail.asp?LangNo=0&ModNo=122 This looks like nothing more than a USB flash drive (sometimes called USB pen drive), except instead of a standard Type-A USB connector, it uses a 10-pin connector like what's on PC motherboards. (I also like how their connector isn't even keyed, which means you could indeed plug the adapter in backwards; all present-day internal USB cables are keyed, so why aren't those?) The PDF contains absolutely no information about what type of flash is used, how flash I/O is performed, or if any form of wear levelling is implemented. There's also no MTBF, which is disappointing, although it does list erase cycle counts (100K). The closest thing to MTBF there is "Data Retention", which says "10 years". There's too much ambiguity there for me to believe it. > I am also wondering if it is a good approach to use USB dongles, instead > of real Solid State devices on ATA. > ... > My hardware supplier recommends the USB dongles, because they > are cheaper and easier to install (just plug it in an 10-pin USB port on > the motherboard). SSD is different than the product you list above. The most important aspect of present-day (past 2-3 years) SSD is how wear levelling is implemented. It's very well done on present-day SSD devices, while on USB storage devices like what you list, I strongly doubt it's done similarly. I would recommend you read the following documents: http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_levelling With regards to the Wikipedia article, now you see why knowing what sort of wear levelling mechanism and "logic" is used in those USB devices. I would easily trust present-day SSD over a USB stick (which is really what those things are), period. Then there's the performance aspect. Those USB devices are going to top out at 33MByte/sec, and I'm willing to bet they don't even achieve that. Take a look at pages 6-8 of the following SSD review (compared against present-day hard disks): http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-memoright,1926.html > I see a lot of USB problems in the Mailing list Archives (see link > below as example). I don't understand all of that, and I know there > are many USB devices which can cause these issues. Is there a question in here somewhere? :-) I think what you're indirectly trying to ask is "is USB on FreeBSD stable?" IMHO, the answer is a big fat no. I would not trust the present USB stack with the same reliability as, say, the SCSI CAM or (I'll regret saying this, I just know it) ATA subsystem. What goal are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to build a FreeBSD system using standard PC parts which doesn't involve storage media that has moving parts? -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 13:47:35 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8829A1065679 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:47:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alwin.roosen@webline.be) Received: from webline.be (d5152F35C.access.telenet.be [81.82.243.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05458FC1A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:47:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alwin.roosen@webline.be) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:31 +0200 Message-ID: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119168@sbs2003.Webline.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <073DF92AAE3443F79BA23004D60ED8AA@Webline.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Thread-Topic: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? Thread-Index: AcjWvSBmBu2ogd3uTtqoN3tv7qIolwAC41rg References: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> <073DF92AAE3443F79BA23004D60ED8AA@Webline.local> From: "Alwin Roosen" To: "Jeremy Chadwick" Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:47:35 -0000 Hi Jeremy, Thank you for all the information! The purpose of this is to build a very simple DNS server which is controlled by some PHP command line scripting. It won't do much writing at all since it loads all DNS information from a separate database-server. Therefore I thought a very simple server without moving parts like unreliable disks would be the perfect match. I could make a copy of that dongle in case it ever breaks and be assured it would run for years and years. I have been reading the FreeBSD tutorial (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/solid-state/index.html), which looks not too complicated to achieve. After reading your response, I will definitely buy a SSD instead of a USB dongle. Alwin Roosen -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Chadwick [mailto:koitsu@FreeBSD.org]=20 Sent: woensdag 25 juni 2008 14:15 To: Alwin Roosen Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:56:28PM +0200, Alwin Roosen wrote: > I want to install FreeBSD onto an USB Flash Module from Transcend. The > links below are the product page and datasheet in PDF. It says it should > be compatible with OS that supports USB standard. > Can anyone confirm that this would actually work? > http://www.transcend.nl/Products/ModDetail.asp?LangNo=3D0&ModNo=3D122 This looks like nothing more than a USB flash drive (sometimes called USB pen drive), except instead of a standard Type-A USB connector, it uses a 10-pin connector like what's on PC motherboards. (I also like how their connector isn't even keyed, which means you could indeed plug the adapter in backwards; all present-day internal USB cables are keyed, so why aren't those?) The PDF contains absolutely no information about what type of flash is used, how flash I/O is performed, or if any form of wear levelling is implemented. There's also no MTBF, which is disappointing, although it does list erase cycle counts (100K). The closest thing to MTBF there is "Data Retention", which says "10 years". There's too much ambiguity there for me to believe it. > I am also wondering if it is a good approach to use USB dongles, instead > of real Solid State devices on ATA. > ... > My hardware supplier recommends the USB dongles, because they > are cheaper and easier to install (just plug it in an 10-pin USB port on > the motherboard). SSD is different than the product you list above. The most important aspect of present-day (past 2-3 years) SSD is how wear levelling is implemented. It's very well done on present-day SSD devices, while on USB storage devices like what you list, I strongly doubt it's done similarly. I would recommend you read the following documents: http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_levelling With regards to the Wikipedia article, now you see why knowing what sort of wear levelling mechanism and "logic" is used in those USB devices. I would easily trust present-day SSD over a USB stick (which is really what those things are), period. Then there's the performance aspect. Those USB devices are going to top out at 33MByte/sec, and I'm willing to bet they don't even achieve that. Take a look at pages 6-8 of the following SSD review (compared against present-day hard disks): http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-memoright,1926.html > I see a lot of USB problems in the Mailing list Archives (see link > below as example). I don't understand all of that, and I know there > are many USB devices which can cause these issues. Is there a question in here somewhere? :-) I think what you're indirectly trying to ask is "is USB on FreeBSD stable?" IMHO, the answer is a big fat no. I would not trust the present USB stack with the same reliability as, say, the SCSI CAM or (I'll regret saying this, I just know it) ATA subsystem. What goal are you trying to accomplish? Do you want to build a FreeBSD system using standard PC parts which doesn't involve storage media that has moving parts? --=20 | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 13:53:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9769106567E for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:53:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from whizzter@gmail.com) Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com (mu-out-0910.google.com [209.85.134.189]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 689D28FC1A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:53:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from whizzter@gmail.com) Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i2so1006782mue.3 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:53:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=0gVwwAb02ppQ2aJbmlO9WZTIGx+8b3wQ+YAvV+XQyqM=; b=GqtYH4emQ3u7GkNHFgx7ipGwyq4UJbVHlOAOXxiZW7MUo9WZeEWqkASiyabdtw5L2J 49Z+55YFhf+4WewCmSQp7VgkD2fu7ggODL/gFPO7M1o0RhVtfaEO2Q24QTYJkLgxqmAf u46pWa4nuVr+NsldKs9Xv2UAXxQ0Oa5v8NDyU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=WJN0jfmdQdI07WT2fUCfP557cLNhMG5/dU7sMepr9NVzBPX4fmYKxUUaLjFgXtJpbt 3qLmxGVYTiS8qiFh7DkoIzS11rao9q7OY5w9MyTn+vFpXaRUqxZI6M6KovAS1F4jlHBl 8F/Gj2mnUi7hTVZHfLVpN+ZO4dgLLk83m28uQ= Received: by 10.103.17.10 with SMTP id u10mr3006906mui.97.1214400316781; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.103.207.13 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <436c7eda0806250625u3408bcd2k61b69ed14c4c1b10@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:25:16 +0200 From: "Jonas Lund" To: "Alwin Roosen" In-Reply-To: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:53:10 -0000 > I want to install FreeBSD onto an USB Flash Module from Transcend. The > links below are the product page and datasheet in PDF. It says it should > be compatible with OS that supports USB standard. Like jeremy said the USB stack ain't overly sexy. Altho as far as i've used it umass hasn't caused too much problems. If you are building kiosks or similiar systems that are mostly used to launch programs and not write too much to the disk then installing on a 'el cheapo usb thingy might be just the thing. I did something similar a little while back (linux tho) and it's quite simple/cheap for something like that. 2 things. - mount with noatime (wearing the memory just because accessing files is quite stupid) - make sure your system has enough memory to avoid swapping, while you can certainly put a swap on flash i wouldn't recommend relying on it as the errors that finally crops up could be subtle and catastrophic or just errors. (how does freebsd handle a swap disk going bad?) / Jonas From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 13:59:40 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E166106566B for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:59:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alwin.roosen@webline.be) Received: from webline.be (d5152F35C.access.telenet.be [81.82.243.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9E38FC20 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:59:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alwin.roosen@webline.be) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:54:29 +0200 Message-ID: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119169@sbs2003.Webline.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <9793E60822024E76A88D70BCC9C1BE77@Webline.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Thread-Topic: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? Thread-Index: AcjWx7msZr0A3xbIQeSndF+uiAspGQAAl4Qg References: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> <9793E60822024E76A88D70BCC9C1BE77@Webline.local> From: "Alwin Roosen" To: "Jonas Lund" Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:59:40 -0000 Hi Jonas, Thank you for the tips! Could you explain to me how the swap partition would work? In the manual () they say to remove the swap from fstab. I don't know much of partitioning since this is setup-related and almost always the same on our servers. Normally you would create a swap partition twice the size of the memory capacity. But if you have a server with 1GB memory, and a 2GB flash-disk, how would this work? Alwin Roosen -----Original Message----- From: Jonas Lund [mailto:whizzter@gmail.com]=20 Sent: woensdag 25 juni 2008 15:31 To: Alwin Roosen Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? > I want to install FreeBSD onto an USB Flash Module from Transcend. The > links below are the product page and datasheet in PDF. It says it should > be compatible with OS that supports USB standard. Like jeremy said the USB stack ain't overly sexy. Altho as far as i've used it umass hasn't caused too much problems. If you are building kiosks or similiar systems that are mostly used to launch programs and not write too much to the disk then installing on a 'el cheapo usb thingy might be just the thing. I did something similar a little while back (linux tho) and it's quite simple/cheap for something like that. 2 things. - mount with noatime (wearing the memory just because accessing files is quite stupid) - make sure your system has enough memory to avoid swapping, while you can certainly put a swap on flash i wouldn't recommend relying on it as the errors that finally crops up could be subtle and catastrophic or just errors. (how does freebsd handle a swap disk going bad?) / Jonas From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 14:13:20 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24A8106567A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:13:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from telmnstr@757.org) Received: from users.757.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f01:669:248:54ff:fe80:63de]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1BE8FC28 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:13:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from telmnstr@757.org) Received: by users.757.org (Postfix, from userid 1123) id 03D95A850; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by users.757.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0316EA730 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:13:19 -0400 (EDT) From: telmnstr@757.org cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119169@sbs2003.Webline.local> Message-ID: References: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> <9793E60822024E76A88D70BCC9C1BE77@Webline.local> <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119169@sbs2003.Webline.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: RE: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:13:20 -0000 > our servers. Normally you would create a swap partition twice the size > of the memory capacity. But if you have a server with 1GB memory, and a > 2GB flash-disk, how would this work? That is best practices. You should be able to remove the swap partition altogether, and as long as you don't exceed the system RAM with programs you are fine. From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 15:16:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F66A1065680; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:16:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mo1so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F30938FC0C; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:16:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr2so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.178]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0K300077JVKRFV30@l-daemon>; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml7so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.151]) by pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K3000C0QVKQFZ00@pd3mr2so.prod.shaw.ca>; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0K3000751VKP7970@l-daemon>; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:14:50 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:13:46 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119168@sbs2003.Webline.local> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-id: <20080625071346.03709a9c@soralx> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> <073DF92AAE3443F79BA23004D60ED8AA@Webline.local> <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119168@sbs2003.Webline.local> Cc: alwin.roosen@webline.be, koitsu@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:16:02 -0000 > The purpose of this is to build a very simple DNS server which is > controlled by some PHP command line scripting. It won't do much writing > at all since it loads all DNS information from a separate > database-server. Therefore I thought a very simple server without moving > parts like unreliable disks would be the perfect match. I could make a > copy of that dongle in case it ever breaks and be assured it would run > for years and years. Forgot to mention in my last email: if you need reliability, then don't use USB flash. I'm testing ZFS on the USB drives array, and a few days after I set it up, I've already seen a CRC error from ZFS -- that's data corruption (irrecoverable, needless to say). Even for a DNS server, USB flash is no good (unless all you use it for is bootstrap -- no writing or reading afterwards). [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400 From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 15:24:08 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34EE61065679 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:24:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F9B8FC20 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:24:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd3mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.177]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0K3000AB6YQE4J20@l-daemon> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml4so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.148]) by pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K300062UYQDX530@pd3mr1so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:23:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0K3000CZHYQCLI30@l-daemon> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:23:01 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-id: <20080625082301.36dcc2d0@soralx> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <50A3BEAB67F03F44A2A063D55FC14D37119163@sbs2003.Webline.local> Cc: alwin.roosen@webline.be Subject: Re: Would a Transcend USB Flash Module of 2GB work? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:24:08 -0000 > [...] > I am also wondering if it is a good approach to use USB dongles, > instead of real Solid State devices on ATA. I see a lot of USB problems > in the Mailing list Archives (see link below as example). I don't > understand all of that, and I know there are many USB devices which can > cause these issues. My hardware supplier recommends the USB dongles, > because they are cheaper and easier to install (just plug it in an 10-pin > USB port on the motherboard). > [...] I'm a bit short on time at the moment, I shall be brief. I could expand on this later, be sure to remind me. USB flash drives don't work for anything other that temporary portable storage. They are _completely_ useless for keeping base system on, even if you have lots of RAM and don't need speed. I tried 4 USB drives (30MB/s read, 20MB/s writes datasheet) connected to two EHCI mainboard headers, striped in ZFS. Totally useless. The avg real life write speeds are ~5MB/s, reads ~12-20 MB/s, (four 'dd' reads give total 80MB/s), and the whole array is only good for about one(!) IOPS. The whole system freezes for seconds or tens of seconds at times. I'm not sure if it's hadrware limitation, or just kernel's USB stack implementation (which, IMHO, is quite flaky and ugly anyway) that's at fault. UFS without softupdates give write performance (while copying /boot/kernel) of a few kilobytes/s (well, maybe few hundred, if it feels like it). Short answer: don't waste your money. Small 46 mm hard drives are better (but not completely noiseless). [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 19:34:28 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B064F106566B for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:34:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gmarkley@greatbaysoftware.com) Received: from portcityweb.com (bayringfw.portcityweb.com [64.140.243.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D828FC14 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gmarkley@greatbaysoftware.com) Received: from ALF ([70.88.211.149]) by portcityweb.com with MailEnable ESMTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:34:23 -0400 X-WatchGuard-Mail-Exception: Allow From: "Gabriel Markley" To: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:36:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WatchGuard-AntiVirus: part scanned. clean action=allow Message-Id: <20080625193428.67D828FC14@mx1.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Admin Help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:34:28 -0000 Can an Admin contact me? Please I have a question to ask. -- Gabriel Markley From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 20:19:03 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F21106566C for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:19:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpalmer@totaldiver.net) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.246]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E407A8FC17 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:19:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpalmer@totaldiver.net) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b33so918889ana.13 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.122.8 with SMTP id u8mr19038298anc.103.1214423402442; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.42.30? ( [209.26.20.205]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 25sm3785543qbw.1.2008.06.25.12.50.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4862A15A.9050807@totaldiver.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:49:46 -0400 From: Jeff Palmer User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Hardware References: <20080625193428.67D828FC14@mx1.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <20080625193428.67D828FC14@mx1.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Admin Help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:19:03 -0000 Gabriel, Your best bet is to ask your question. The reasons are: #1) The list gets archived. If you have a question, someone else may have the same question along the way. The replies you get will be archived and become searchable by most of the online search engines. Answering you often helps untold numbers of other people. #2) Nobody is going to be the "focal point" of your questions, without having an indication as to what those questions are. example: I send you an email, you ask me something about XYZ.. I know nothing about XYZ. so we've both just wasted our time, you're no further along in your quest for knowledge, and now you are depending on me for an answer I don't have. The above is just a polite way to say: Just ask your question. if someone has an answer, they'll offer it up. Jeff Gabriel Markley wrote: > Can an Admin contact me? Please I have a question to ask. > > > > From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 25 20:55:54 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B46A106566C for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:55:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: from yx-out-2324.google.com (yx-out-2324.google.com [74.125.44.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F8D8FC14 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:55:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sfourman@gmail.com) Received: by yx-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 31so661160yxl.13 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:55:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=LcQIs3vMn5astOcP74geecsaqyDlTZ9lx9foK+8WMOM=; b=fYvzAtOki8FSJGkTpUIQeAZYPomgdORYPZL7Fb2j5ydxVuzaa1aWAL94LcasHa3rPW JmgHCHmeu2XXwVjGcCb+/GKvEUacz4J3Tebcy8L8O/E7UnnGlvHs6XvXxjZGWB48B801 +LAs+OIitVsVXKfTfEk/tnv5q3KJiZwwPiecs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=vDVJrQ4cEKh8AIbrWOIgw6Qa3oxYwRLL14udYyCyWMZx6uxH7TEAOZQGtwRsRJNSVc JnRRRP0cAtgYT+tCaztA2rKle4aP1nj6RrqzJu85I95LsC7cOLqdOEQDbU9ZtgaDe1Ne 03Ly41HEl2LdUpV5q2od7ofbMg9R30ChjpPbo= Received: by 10.141.141.3 with SMTP id t3mr16795208rvn.72.1214425817593; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.28.19 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <11167f520806251330w474dc9adw961d560ab99b215d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:30:17 -0500 From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: "Gabriel Markley" In-Reply-To: <20080625193428.67D828FC14@mx1.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080625193428.67D828FC14@mx1.freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Admin Help X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:55:54 -0000 On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Gabriel Markley < gmarkley@greatbaysoftware.com> wrote: > Can an Admin contact me? Please I have a question to ask. > I have a Few years of experince with FreeBSD based systems I may beable to help you out. what is your question Sam Fourman Jr. From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 26 23:29:15 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DDCC1065674 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:29:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vincentfrancois.pro@gmail.com) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215538FC25 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:29:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vincentfrancois.pro@gmail.com) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so258088rvf.43 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:29:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=E/2L2rIwyqX3ggED90NTzJrdxxBQP/cj8WWZe9ByGhQ=; b=hEqQtJQUHSQKekS1mi2KHiLywQbnxr0J3hjtlyH5zfbWpN0O9C2qF2PLlmecW+KLBg bzwZZhTMoMC+FKTShGhz7ml2OSIQI6oPyVxLvtiQnXZSSC2wFGcGsFzknO2Jj1mt1FVU pvw4QAwYfd6KxuobKDMgzNAAGMc2OnLpR85AE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=DQa67VmxPyRZTdQvL/qa/+vcXbl76O45/bGYwf9suTGZkqBYu5Nz11HNrwmf6eaLrf yfHka/aZer/Lomv3cDMVtD+ldEH9G6xTmSaWhiCrl1GXpTdZ2/63r9KroLbp4YuRQVr2 i0zACBsNQaDg2A9MMlYfg7rq/z3v8wjnqzMGc= Received: by 10.114.144.1 with SMTP id r1mr701414wad.136.1214521261975; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.197.15 with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <14b028c20806261601n7c3ceb56n54e4116ef151dd4c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:01:01 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vincent_Fran=E7ois?=" To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: FreeBSD 7.0 Release, Radeon RV350 9600 M10 Rev 0, System Freeze X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:29:15 -0000 FreeBSD 7.0 Release Graphic card : ATI RV350 Radeon 9600 M10 Rev 0 Xorg 1.4.0 Hello, I had a problem with the driver for the ATI Mobility 9600. At the start of the X Server, the system froze ! To solve this problem, I performed the operations listed below: 1) update the ports # portsnap fetch update 2) remove the xf86-video-ati package 2.1) detect version # pkg_version -v | grep xf86-video-ati xf86-video-ati-x.x.x x.x.x : version of package 2.2) delete package # pkg_delete xf86-video-ati.x.x.x 3) make and install new driver # cd /usr/ports/x11-driver/xf86-video-ati #make ... #make install 4) create new xorg config file (choose radeon driver) # xorgconfig 5) modify xorg config file ( /etc/X11/xorg.conf ) 5.1) modify device section Section "Device" Identifier "** ATI Radeon (Generic) [radeon]" Driver "radeon" VideoRam 131072 Option "DRI" "no" # Add this line BusID "PCI:1:0:0" # Add this line, for find the bus address use "pciconf -lv" EndSection 6) start server # startx Normaly, the X server now works ---- I tested with drm, it's ok. If you want to use the drm, here's how: 1) modify /etc/X11/xorg.conf, in section "Module" add: Load "drm" Load "radeon" # I'm not sure... 2) load radeon module # kldload radeon 3) start X server # startx From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 02:52:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D65E106564A for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:52:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E40428FC1C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:52:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 60-242-243-193.static.tpgi.com.au ([60.242.243.193] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC3jp-000ELt-3B for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:31:03 +1000 Message-ID: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:30:51 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 12:31:01 X-Connected-IP: 60.242.243.193:1440 X-Message-Linecount: 34 X-Body-Linecount: 23 X-Message-Size: 1223 X-Body-Size: 823 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 1 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 1 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 60.242.243.193 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, DKIM_POLICY_SIGNSOME,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Subject: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:52:05 -0000 Hello all, I'm looking to set up a file server at our office. It's a small office so price is a concern. Performance is also going to be important. The data will be replicated from another site so integrity of the data is not paramount. For this reason I think I'll be able to run with ZFS. I see it as a good opportunity to contribute to getting ZFS stable and non-experimental. What I am really concerned about is the SATA support. If I look at AMD64 as an arch, does anyone have any experience with good IO chipsets that can do full SATA-300? I don't mind if it is a on-board or if I get a good controller card so long as I can get decent performance out of the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 drives. I'd be willing to go with intel arch although from a ZFS perspective it sounds like AMD64 is better. -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 02:55:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06AD8106567B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:55:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dean@fragfest.com.au) Received: from aramaki.bong.com.au (aramaki.bong.com.au [202.76.172.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA72D8FC13 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:55:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dean@fragfest.com.au) Received: from optimus.optusnet.com.au ([203.10.68.27]) by aramaki.bong.com.au with esmtpa (Exim 4.61 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC478-0002P1-IN; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:55:06 +1000 Message-ID: <4864586B.1020702@fragfest.com.au> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:03:07 +1000 From: Dean Hamstead User-Agent: Mozilla-Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd@dannysplace.net References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> In-Reply-To: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:55:05 -0000 I have had good success with nforce boards with release-7.0 sataII seems to work well. Dean Danny Carroll wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm looking to set up a file server at our office. It's a small office > so price is a concern. Performance is also going to be important. > > The data will be replicated from another site so integrity of the data > is not paramount. For this reason I think I'll be able to run with ZFS. > I see it as a good opportunity to contribute to getting ZFS stable and > non-experimental. > > What I am really concerned about is the SATA support. > > If I look at AMD64 as an arch, does anyone have any experience with good > IO chipsets that can do full SATA-300? > > I don't mind if it is a on-board or if I get a good controller card so > long as I can get decent performance out of the Seagate Barracuda > 7200.11 drives. > > I'd be willing to go with intel arch although from a ZFS perspective it > sounds like AMD64 is better. > > -D > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hardware > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hardware-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- http://fragfest.com.au From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 02:57:02 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732AF106567E for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:57:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B3E8FC17 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:57:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 60-242-243-193.static.tpgi.com.au ([60.242.243.193] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC48t-000EUK-Tw; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:57:00 +1000 Message-ID: <486456F1.6010005@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:56:49 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dean Hamstead References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <4864586B.1020702@fragfest.com.au> In-Reply-To: <4864586B.1020702@fragfest.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 12:56:56 X-Connected-IP: 60.242.243.193:2055 X-Message-Linecount: 25 X-Body-Linecount: 11 X-Message-Size: 820 X-Body-Size: 245 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 60.242.243.193 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, DKIM_POLICY_SIGNSOME,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:57:02 -0000 Dean Hamstead wrote: > I have had good success with nforce boards with release-7.0 > > sataII seems to work well. Could you be more specific? Last time I looked there were a few generations of nForce chipsets. Was it on Intel or amd64? -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 04:05:45 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A13106567C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:05:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C034A8FC16 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:05:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A53331CC038; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:05:45 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Danny Carroll Message-ID: <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:05:45 -0000 On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:30:51PM +1000, Danny Carroll wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm looking to set up a file server at our office. It's a small office > so price is a concern. Performance is also going to be important. > > The data will be replicated from another site so integrity of the data > is not paramount. For this reason I think I'll be able to run with ZFS. > I see it as a good opportunity to contribute to getting ZFS stable and > non-experimental. > > What I am really concerned about is the SATA support. > > If I look at AMD64 as an arch, does anyone have any experience with good > IO chipsets that can do full SATA-300? > > I don't mind if it is a on-board or if I get a good controller card so > long as I can get decent performance out of the Seagate Barracuda > 7200.11 drives. SATA150 and SATA300 both work just fine on FreeBSD, but its dependent upon what chipset you go with. I would strongly recommend you go with a board/system that uses Intel's ICH7, 8, or 9 southbridge. I have extensive experience using these in production environments, and they are very reliable, plus fast. FreeBSD works quite well with them. Second, I wouldn't bother considering using Intel MatrixRAID (which all of the above chipsets support) for any sort of failover for your root/OS disk, in case you're tempted to try it. FreeBSD has bugs pertaining to such support (see below Wiki URL for some examples). Third, I cannot recommend nVidia chipsets, because there have been numerous reports recently and in the past where the SATA disks are being detected as UDMA33. I believe there are some ATI/AMD chipsets which are doing the same. There is a rumour that the operational speed of the disks is still SATA150/300, and just that FreeBSD is labelling the negotiated speed wrong, but my recommendation is not to risk it. Fourth, because you'll likely have multiple disks in a ZFS zpool, you should probably be aware of the problem that haunts some users from time to time (re: DMA errors). http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/ATA_issues_and_troubleshooting > I'd be willing to go with intel arch although from a ZFS perspective it > sounds like AMD64 is better. There was a recent discussion on developers@ (which is private) about some topics, which eventually lead into a discussion about ZFS, tuning, and a 2GB kmem limit in FreeBSD (which affects amd64 too). I can't copy the conversation/thread because developers@ has a strict "do not disclose" policy. We can discuss those topics separately here without issue -- I just mean I can't copy/paste what's already been said on another list. Just be aware you ***will*** need to tune ZFS on FreeBSD to make it as reliable as possible. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 04:27:36 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA1E106566C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:27:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: from mail.frase.id.au (203-219-142-174.static.tpgi.com.au [203.219.142.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78118FC0C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:27:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: from mail.frase.id.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frase.id.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5R3pcPT017128 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:51:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: (from Fraser@localhost) by mail.frase.id.au (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m5R3pcNe017127 for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:51:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fraser) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:51:38 +1000 From: Fraser Tweedale To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080627035137.GA9582@bacardi> References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jI8keyz6grp/JLjh" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:27:36 -0000 --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:30:51PM +1000, Danny Carroll wrote: > Hello all, >=20 > I'm looking to set up a file server at our office. It's a small office= =20 > so price is a concern. Performance is also going to be important. >=20 > The data will be replicated from another site so integrity of the data=20 > is not paramount. For this reason I think I'll be able to run with ZFS.= =20 > I see it as a good opportunity to contribute to getting ZFS stable and= =20 > non-experimental. >=20 > What I am really concerned about is the SATA support. >=20 > If I look at AMD64 as an arch, does anyone have any experience with good= =20 > IO chipsets that can do full SATA-300? >=20 > I don't mind if it is a on-board or if I get a good controller card so=20 > long as I can get decent performance out of the Seagate Barracuda=20 > 7200.11 drives. >=20 > I'd be willing to go with intel arch although from a ZFS perspective it= =20 > sounds like AMD64 is better. >=20 > -D Intel ICH-9 works a treat; I run a combination of SATA-300 and SATA-150 drives on an ICH-9 southbridge, and have never had an issue. --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkhkY8kACgkQPw/2FZbemTWUgwCdFsLb6epha04oT4AAIGoAUSdU WzQAn3XFfeb9CXRoiBZIgmkQ/2OHk4WN =Alrk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 05:12:05 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C8BE106566B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:12:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 365F18FC13 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:12:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 60-242-243-193.static.tpgi.com.au ([60.242.243.193] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC6Fe-000FD3-4f; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:12:04 +1000 Message-ID: <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:11:56 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Chadwick References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 15:12:02 X-Connected-IP: 60.242.243.193:4438 X-Message-Linecount: 88 X-Body-Linecount: 74 X-Message-Size: 3988 X-Body-Size: 3391 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 60.242.243.193 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, DKIM_POLICY_SIGNSOME,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:12:05 -0000 Jeremy, thanks for your response. Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > SATA150 and SATA300 both work just fine on FreeBSD, but its dependent > upon what chipset you go with. I would strongly recommend you go with a > board/system that uses Intel's ICH7, 8, or 9 southbridge. I have > extensive experience using these in production environments, and they > are very reliable, plus fast. FreeBSD works quite well with them. I do have a board with an ICH10 chipset but the SATA drives are detected as UDMA-33. I guess the ICH* chipsets would not support AMD64, being an intel chip. > Second, I wouldn't bother considering using Intel MatrixRAID (which all > of the above chipsets support) for any sort of failover for your root/OS > disk, in case you're tempted to try it. FreeBSD has bugs pertaining to > such support (see below Wiki URL for some examples). Yeah, I'm not so keen of the modern trend to have on-board raid. I'd rather keep it simple and let FreeBSD handle it. Root disk will not be raid at all. > Third, I cannot recommend nVidia chipsets, because there have been > numerous reports recently and in the past where the SATA disks are being > detected as UDMA33. I believe there are some ATI/AMD chipsets which are > doing the same. There is a rumour that the operational speed of the > disks is still SATA150/300, and just that FreeBSD is labelling the > negotiated speed wrong, but my recommendation is not to risk it. Hmmm, some people say nforce4 chipsets are cool, some not... It's hard to know which way to go. > Fourth, because you'll likely have multiple disks in a ZFS zpool, you > should probably be aware of the problem that haunts some users from time > to time (re: DMA errors). I've seen it on old ATA hardware. > http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/ATA_issues_and_troubleshooting > >> I'd be willing to go with intel arch although from a ZFS perspective it >> sounds like AMD64 is better. > > There was a recent discussion on developers@ (which is private) about > some topics, which eventually lead into a discussion about ZFS, tuning, > and a 2GB kmem limit in FreeBSD (which affects amd64 too). I can't copy > the conversation/thread because developers@ has a strict "do not > disclose" policy. I thought that the 2gb limit was less of a problem for AMD64 because of the addressing used. > Just be aware you ***will*** need to tune ZFS on FreeBSD to make it > as reliable as possible. We'll like I said, I'd be willing to jump on a list and provide info etc about my setup. I plan to have it running on a test bench with lots of IO for a week or so before I start using it. Even then the data will not be critical so if it breaks then I can rebuild without hassle. System disk will be UFS2 to keep it simple... I've got it running on desktop hardware (ASUS P5Q board with ICH5) while I wait for a decision on a permanent Motherboard. With this setup I see about 60mb write speeds on ZFS across 5 disks. I've done the basic tuning suggested in the Wiki. One thing I notice is that the CPU is used for 30% on Interrupts. It was firewire first, so I disabled it in the BIOS, then it went to UHCI so I disabled all USB ports. Now it is on the ATA controller. All of this was on the same interrupt (19). I'm thinking of getting a couple of Promise SATA-300 TX4 IO cards (non-raid). Perhaps that will offload the CPU. -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 05:31:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DE3106566B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:31:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: from mail.frase.id.au (203-219-142-174.static.tpgi.com.au [203.219.142.174]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A0F8FC17 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: from mail.frase.id.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.frase.id.au (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5R5V59A020297; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:31:05 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fraser@mail.frase.id.au) Received: (from Fraser@localhost) by mail.frase.id.au (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id m5R5V4C0020296; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:31:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fraser) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:31:04 +1000 From: Fraser Tweedale To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20080627053103.GB9582@bacardi> References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: fbsd@dannysplace.net Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:31:18 -0000 --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 03:11:56PM +1000, Danny Carroll wrote: > Jeremy, thanks for your response. >=20 > Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > > SATA150 and SATA300 both work just fine on FreeBSD, but its dependent > > upon what chipset you go with. I would strongly recommend you go with a > > board/system that uses Intel's ICH7, 8, or 9 southbridge. I have > > extensive experience using these in production environments, and they > > are very reliable, plus fast. FreeBSD works quite well with them. >=20 > I do have a board with an ICH10 chipset but the SATA drives are detected= =20 > as UDMA-33. >=20 > I guess the ICH* chipsets would not support AMD64, being an intel chip. >=20 Intel chips support AMD64 - the architecture is called that because AMD came up with it first. Intel calls their implementation EM64T (and x86-64 refers to the same thing), but it is all AMD64. As for the issue with those drives being detected as UDMA-33, I'm not sure, and defer my response. > > Second, I wouldn't bother considering using Intel MatrixRAID (which all > > of the above chipsets support) for any sort of failover for your root/OS > > disk, in case you're tempted to try it. FreeBSD has bugs pertaining to > > such support (see below Wiki URL for some examples). >=20 > Yeah, I'm not so keen of the modern trend to have on-board raid. I'd=20 > rather keep it simple and let FreeBSD handle it. Root disk will not be= =20 > raid at all. >=20 > > Third, I cannot recommend nVidia chipsets, because there have been > > numerous reports recently and in the past where the SATA disks are being > > detected as UDMA33. I believe there are some ATI/AMD chipsets which are > > doing the same. There is a rumour that the operational speed of the > > disks is still SATA150/300, and just that FreeBSD is labelling the > > negotiated speed wrong, but my recommendation is not to risk it. >=20 > Hmmm, some people say nforce4 chipsets are cool, some not... It's hard= =20 > to know which way to go. >=20 For the record, I concur with Jeremy's sentiments. I also had issues with SATA on nForce 520, which prompted a shift to Intel for my main system. > > Fourth, because you'll likely have multiple disks in a ZFS zpool, you > > should probably be aware of the problem that haunts some users from time > > to time (re: DMA errors). >=20 > I've seen it on old ATA hardware. >=20 > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/ATA_issues_and_troubleshooting > >=20 > >> I'd be willing to go with intel arch although from a ZFS perspective i= t =20 > >> sounds like AMD64 is better. > >=20 > > There was a recent discussion on developers@ (which is private) about > > some topics, which eventually lead into a discussion about ZFS, tuning, > > and a 2GB kmem limit in FreeBSD (which affects amd64 too). I can't copy > > the conversation/thread because developers@ has a strict "do not > > disclose" policy. >=20 > I thought that the 2gb limit was less of a problem for AMD64 because of= =20 > the addressing used. >=20 > > Just be aware you ***will*** need to tune ZFS on FreeBSD to make it > > as reliable as possible. >=20 > We'll like I said, I'd be willing to jump on a list and provide info etc= =20 > about my setup. I plan to have it running on a test bench with lots of= =20 > IO for a week or so before I start using it. Even then the data will=20 > not be critical so if it breaks then I can rebuild without hassle.=20 > System disk will be UFS2 to keep it simple... >=20 > I've got it running on desktop hardware (ASUS P5Q board with ICH5) while= =20 > I wait for a decision on a permanent Motherboard. With this setup I see= =20 > about 60mb write speeds on ZFS across 5 disks. I've done the basic=20 > tuning suggested in the Wiki. One thing I notice is that the CPU is=20 > used for 30% on Interrupts. It was firewire first, so I disabled it in= =20 > the BIOS, then it went to UHCI so I disabled all USB ports. Now it is=20 > on the ATA controller. All of this was on the same interrupt (19). >=20 > I'm thinking of getting a couple of Promise SATA-300 TX4 IO cards=20 > (non-raid). Perhaps that will offload the CPU. >=20 > -D frase --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkhkexcACgkQPw/2FZbemTUEZQCdErx4xN2pFsCJcKcUIcNwDg7A yYcAoKdoLcKLL3P99yZvRxUlLCAnJSeE =Rutn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6-- From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 05:33:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DFD106566B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:33:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1FF68FC1B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:33:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A27591CC031; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:33:14 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Danny Carroll Message-ID: <20080627053314.GA24239@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:33:14 -0000 On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 03:11:56PM +1000, Danny Carroll wrote: > Jeremy, thanks for your response. > > Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >> SATA150 and SATA300 both work just fine on FreeBSD, but its dependent >> upon what chipset you go with. I would strongly recommend you go with a >> board/system that uses Intel's ICH7, 8, or 9 southbridge. I have >> extensive experience using these in production environments, and they >> are very reliable, plus fast. FreeBSD works quite well with them. > > I do have a board with an ICH10 chipset but the SATA drives are detected > as UDMA-33. This comes as no surprise, as there is no ICH10 knowledge in the PCI and ATA code at this time. ICH10 is ***very*** new, as in probably within the past 6 weeks, no? > I guess the ICH* chipsets would not support AMD64, being an intel chip. You're greatly confused with regards to what "amd64" means. FreeBSD's 32-bit operating system is called i386. FreeBSD's 64-bit operating system is called amd64. It has absolutely **nothing** to do with processor types (AMD vs. Intel). >> Second, I wouldn't bother considering using Intel MatrixRAID (which all >> of the above chipsets support) for any sort of failover for your root/OS >> disk, in case you're tempted to try it. FreeBSD has bugs pertaining to >> such support (see below Wiki URL for some examples). > > Yeah, I'm not so keen of the modern trend to have on-board raid. I'd > rather keep it simple and let FreeBSD handle it. Root disk will not be > raid at all. FreeBSD's ability to boot off of FreeBSD-managed-RAID'd volumes is horrible. Administrators have to go through a bunch of rigmarole to accomplish something that should be an absolute simplicity/necessity in this day and age. This is one reason why I myself have considered using Intel MatrixRAID, because then that "layer" is generally transparent to FreeBSD. In fact, ZFS on a root filesystem is still a "pain", yet Solaris has it down pat. >> Third, I cannot recommend nVidia chipsets, because there have been >> numerous reports recently and in the past where the SATA disks are being >> detected as UDMA33. I believe there are some ATI/AMD chipsets which are >> doing the same. There is a rumour that the operational speed of the >> disks is still SATA150/300, and just that FreeBSD is labelling the >> negotiated speed wrong, but my recommendation is not to risk it. > > Hmmm, some people say nforce4 chipsets are cool, some not... It's hard > to know which way to go. They're incredibly old, and you probably won't find them any more. >> Fourth, because you'll likely have multiple disks in a ZFS zpool, you >> should probably be aware of the problem that haunts some users from time >> to time (re: DMA errors). > > I've seen it on old ATA hardware. There's a chance you'll see it on brand new SATA300 disks with all sorts of different SATA controller hardware (not limited to just one vendor), too. The problem is somewhere within FreeBSD, and my Wiki page documents a workaround/patch that the FreeNAS guys came up with, which has sat ignored for over a year by the FreeBSD ATA maintainer. Not a good sign. >> http://wiki.freebsd.org/JeremyChadwick/ATA_issues_and_troubleshooting >> >>> I'd be willing to go with intel arch although from a ZFS perspective >>> it sounds like AMD64 is better. >> >> There was a recent discussion on developers@ (which is private) about >> some topics, which eventually lead into a discussion about ZFS, tuning, >> and a 2GB kmem limit in FreeBSD (which affects amd64 too). I can't copy >> the conversation/thread because developers@ has a strict "do not >> disclose" policy. > > I thought that the 2gb limit was less of a problem for AMD64 because of > the addressing used. You're confusing two issues (general maximum memory limit of x86/PC hardware and kmem). There is a known limit **in FreeBSD** that affects i386 and amd64 both, limiting the available amount of kmem to 2GB. You cannot increase it past that. It's a code issue, and is presently being addressed in HEAD (-CURRENT). ZFS uses kmem heavily. So, it doesn't matter if you have 16GB of RAM installed and are running amd64; kmem is still limited to 2GB. That means that effectively ZFS will only be able to use up to 1.5GB of your RAM (not 2GB, because you need to leave some available for other kernel related things; 512MB is enough). >> Just be aware you ***will*** need to tune ZFS on FreeBSD to make it >> as reliable as possible. > > We'll like I said, I'd be willing to jump on a list and provide info etc > about my setup. I plan to have it running on a test bench with lots of > IO for a week or so before I start using it. Even then the data will > not be critical so if it breaks then I can rebuild without hassle. Keep in mind that there have been some reports of ZFS on FreeBSD behaving incorrectly/oddly when a disk goes back, or a checksum error is found by ZFS. The disk will resilver for no apparent reason. > System disk will be UFS2 to keep it simple... > > I've got it running on desktop hardware (ASUS P5Q board with ICH5) while > I wait for a decision on a permanent Motherboard. With this setup I see > about 60mb write speeds on ZFS across 5 disks. I've done the basic > tuning suggested in the Wiki. One thing I notice is that the CPU is > used for 30% on Interrupts. It was firewire first, so I disabled it in > the BIOS, then it went to UHCI so I disabled all USB ports. Now it is > on the ATA controller. All of this was on the same interrupt (19). IRQ sharing is generally a "thing of the past", and interrupt conflicts are something from days prior to APICs being available on every motherboard under the sun. Meaning: "swapping around" IRQs for onboard devices rarely does anything in this day and age. > I'm thinking of getting a couple of Promise SATA-300 TX4 IO cards > (non-raid). Perhaps that will offload the CPU. I don't see how that's going to help with heavy interrupt usage. 30% interrupt usage across 5 disks doesn't sound too odd, and going with a Promise controller that doesn't have its own dedicated driver (read: it will use ata(4)) won't address that. You might be better off getting actual server hardware rather than "hacked up to be server" desktop hardware. Consider Supermicro stuff. I can personally recommend their PDSMi+ motherboard, and many other FreeBSD users rely heavily on their hardware. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 07:02:33 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DAE106564A for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:02:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 543B48FC12 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:02:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 60-242-243-193.static.tpgi.com.au ([60.242.243.193] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC7yY-000Fl9-31; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:02:32 +1000 Message-ID: <48649080.1070802@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:02:24 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fraser Tweedale References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627053103.GB9582@bacardi> In-Reply-To: <20080627053103.GB9582@bacardi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 17:02:30 X-Connected-IP: 60.242.243.193:2357 X-Message-Linecount: 23 X-Body-Linecount: 9 X-Message-Size: 972 X-Body-Size: 323 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 60.242.243.193 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, DKIM_POLICY_SIGNSOME,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:02:33 -0000 Fraser Tweedale wrote: > Intel chips support AMD64 - the architecture is called that because AMD > came up with it first. Intel calls their implementation EM64T (and > x86-64 refers to the same thing), but it is all AMD64. Wow, never knew that.... Does that mean I can run the AMD64 version on my Core2 Duo E6550? -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 07:18:06 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7131065670; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:18:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF928FC0A; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:18:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 60-242-243-193.static.tpgi.com.au ([60.242.243.193] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC8Da-000Fpr-KX; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:18:05 +1000 Message-ID: <48649424.4010700@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:17:56 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Chadwick References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627053314.GA24239@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: <20080627053314.GA24239@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 17:18:03 X-Connected-IP: 60.242.243.193:2622 X-Message-Linecount: 95 X-Body-Linecount: 81 X-Message-Size: 4141 X-Body-Size: 3463 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 60.242.243.193 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, DKIM_POLICY_SIGNSOME,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:18:06 -0000 Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > This comes as no surprise, as there is no ICH10 knowledge in the PCI and > ATA code at this time. ICH10 is ***very*** new, as in probably within > the past 6 weeks, no? > Yes.... It's a new desktop machine that I am toying with before it needs to go to it's permanent owner. > You're greatly confused with regards to what "amd64" means. FreeBSD's > 32-bit operating system is called i386. FreeBSD's 64-bit operating > system is called amd64. It has absolutely **nothing** to do with > processor types (AMD vs. Intel). You can understand how that can happen I guess. But thanks for setting me straight. > FreeBSD's ability to boot off of FreeBSD-managed-RAID'd volumes is > horrible. Administrators have to go through a bunch of rigmarole to > accomplish something that should be an absolute simplicity/necessity in > this day and age. This is one reason why I myself have considered using > Intel MatrixRAID, because then that "layer" is generally transparent to > FreeBSD. > > In fact, ZFS on a root filesystem is still a "pain", yet Solaris has it > down pat. I had that whole hassle with either vinum or gmirror (can't remember which). That's why this time I decided on a dedicated disk. So long as I have a backup I don't care about a days downtime for the OS. > There's a chance you'll see it on brand new SATA300 disks with all sorts > of different SATA controller hardware (not limited to just one vendor), > too. The problem is somewhere within FreeBSD, and my Wiki page > documents a workaround/patch that the FreeNAS guys came up with, which > has sat ignored for over a year by the FreeBSD ATA maintainer. Not a > good sign. Did it make it into 7-Current? > Keep in mind that there have been some reports of ZFS on FreeBSD > behaving incorrectly/oddly when a disk goes back, or a checksum error is > found by ZFS. The disk will resilver for no apparent reason. Hmmmm.... > IRQ sharing is generally a "thing of the past", and interrupt conflicts > are something from days prior to APICs being available on every > motherboard under the sun. Meaning: "swapping around" IRQs for onboard > devices rarely does anything in this day and age. > >> I'm thinking of getting a couple of Promise SATA-300 TX4 IO cards >> (non-raid). Perhaps that will offload the CPU. > > I don't see how that's going to help with heavy interrupt usage. 30% > interrupt usage across 5 disks doesn't sound too odd, and going with a > Promise controller that doesn't have its own dedicated driver (read: it > will use ata(4)) won't address that. 30%.... Even at idle? Granted it did not increase much with heavy IO but it surprised me a little that it's so high to start with. So which controllers have their own driver/processors onboard that can eliminate the CPU hogging. > You might be better off getting actual server hardware rather than > "hacked up to be server" desktop hardware. Consider Supermicro stuff. > I can personally recommend their PDSMi+ motherboard, and many other > FreeBSD users rely heavily on their hardware. Well I still have the option to choose something so I'm open to all sorts of suggestions. And actually that's kinda the point to me starting this post. To find out what hardware does great IO with Sata. I was also looking at TYAN gear. I've used it in the past and been happy (but performance was never really an issue then). Thanks so much for the tips so far. -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 07:36:12 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872ED106566B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:36:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FBB08FC13 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:36:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 349E41CC031; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:36:12 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Danny Carroll Message-ID: <20080627073612.GA29122@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627053314.GA24239@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <48649424.4010700@dannysplace.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48649424.4010700@dannysplace.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:36:12 -0000 On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:17:56PM +1000, Danny Carroll wrote: >> There's a chance you'll see it on brand new SATA300 disks with all sorts >> of different SATA controller hardware (not limited to just one vendor), >> too. The problem is somewhere within FreeBSD, and my Wiki page >> documents a workaround/patch that the FreeNAS guys came up with, which >> has sat ignored for over a year by the FreeBSD ATA maintainer. Not a >> good sign. > > Did it make it into 7-Current? 7-CURRENT existed back in mid to late 2007; there is no 7-CURRENT now. And no, none of the patches provided by the FreeNAS people ever made it into the FreeBSD source tree. In fact, sos@ never even responded to their mails. This is the 5th or 6th time I've heard of this situation happening (ATA driver author not responding to people who submit patches, submit PRs, or general Email). It's growing very old. >> IRQ sharing is generally a "thing of the past", and interrupt conflicts >> are something from days prior to APICs being available on every >> motherboard under the sun. Meaning: "swapping around" IRQs for onboard >> devices rarely does anything in this day and age. >> >>> I'm thinking of getting a couple of Promise SATA-300 TX4 IO cards >>> (non-raid). Perhaps that will offload the CPU. >> >> I don't see how that's going to help with heavy interrupt usage. 30% >> interrupt usage across 5 disks doesn't sound too odd, and going with a >> Promise controller that doesn't have its own dedicated driver (read: it >> will use ata(4)) won't address that. > > 30%.... Even at idle? Granted it did not increase much with heavy IO > but it surprised me a little that it's so high to start with. No, it should not happen at idle. You said "interrupt usage across 5 disks", which I read to mean "interrupt usage is very high during I/O across a zpool consisting of 5 disks". I misunderstood. IRQ sharing could result in what you see, but it sounds more like some weird interrupt routing/bug that might be specific to that Asus board. > So which controllers have their own driver/processors onboard that can > eliminate the CPU hogging. The FreeBSD Handbook has a list of hardware. Anything that has its own xxx(4) driver (e.g. twa(4), twe(4), arcmsr(4), etc.) will suffice. Many of these cards handle SATA disks which appear as daX in FreeBSD, since they act as SCSI controllers. SCSI CAM on FreeBSD is quite reliable. Currently, the best SATA controllers I've seen that have native FreeBSD support (meaning the vendor supports FreeBSD) are Areca controllers. I have no experience with them due to their cost, but they are *very* fast. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 07:37:53 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E23D106566B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:37:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D378FC16 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:37:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 385A31CC05F; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:37:53 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Danny Carroll Message-ID: <20080627073753.GA29789@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627053103.GB9582@bacardi> <48649080.1070802@dannysplace.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48649080.1070802@dannysplace.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: Fraser Tweedale , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:37:53 -0000 On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:02:24PM +1000, Danny Carroll wrote: > Fraser Tweedale wrote: >> Intel chips support AMD64 - the architecture is called that because AMD >> came up with it first. Intel calls their implementation EM64T (and >> x86-64 refers to the same thing), but it is all AMD64. > > Wow, never knew that.... Does that mean I can run the AMD64 version on > my Core2 Duo E6550? Yes. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 07:45:58 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79C61065674; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:45:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 988098FC19; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:45:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from 60-242-243-193.static.tpgi.com.au ([60.242.243.193] helo=[192.168.10.10]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC8eZ-000FyY-Ly; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:45:57 +1000 Message-ID: <48649AAD.4050806@dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:45:49 +1000 From: Danny Carroll User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeremy Chadwick References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627053314.GA24239@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <48649424.4010700@dannysplace.net> <20080627073612.GA29122@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: <20080627073612.GA29122@eos.sc1.parodius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Authenticated-User: danny X-Authenticator: plain X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 17:45:56 X-Connected-IP: 60.242.243.193:3264 X-Message-Linecount: 40 X-Body-Linecount: 26 X-Message-Size: 1932 X-Body-Size: 1173 X-Received-Count: 1 X-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 60.242.243.193 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.1 (2007-05-02) on ferrari.dannysplace.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, DKIM_POLICY_SIGNSOME,TVD_RCVD_IP autolearn=disabled version=3.2.1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.dannysplace.net) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: fbsd@dannysplace.net List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:45:58 -0000 Jeremy Chadwick wrote: > No, it should not happen at idle. You said "interrupt usage across 5 > disks", which I read to mean "interrupt usage is very high during I/O > across a zpool consisting of 5 disks". I misunderstood. > > IRQ sharing could result in what you see, but it sounds more like some > weird interrupt routing/bug that might be specific to that Asus board. That's kinda what I fear might be the case. > The FreeBSD Handbook has a list of hardware. Anything that has its own > xxx(4) driver (e.g. twa(4), twe(4), arcmsr(4), etc.) will suffice. Many > of these cards handle SATA disks which appear as daX in FreeBSD, since > they act as SCSI controllers. SCSI CAM on FreeBSD is quite reliable. > > Currently, the best SATA controllers I've seen that have native FreeBSD > support (meaning the vendor supports FreeBSD) are Areca controllers. I > have no experience with them due to their cost, but they are *very* > fast. Ouch.... Are the any other options? I'd be happy with a card that simply exposed the drive to FreeBSD rather than implemented Raid. Although I won't rule hardware raid out either (given a product that was fast enough). -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 07:53:00 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8CBA1065674 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:53:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: from mx01.sc1.parodius.com (mx01.sc1.parodius.com [72.20.106.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D03508FC1B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:53:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jdc@parodius.com) Received: by mx01.sc1.parodius.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AADBD1CC031; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:53:00 -0700 From: Jeremy Chadwick To: Danny Carroll Message-ID: <20080627075300.GA30448@eos.sc1.parodius.com> References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627053314.GA24239@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <48649424.4010700@dannysplace.net> <20080627073612.GA29122@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <48649AAD.4050806@dannysplace.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <48649AAD.4050806@dannysplace.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:53:00 -0000 On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 05:45:49PM +1000, Danny Carroll wrote: > Jeremy Chadwick wrote: >> No, it should not happen at idle. You said "interrupt usage across 5 >> disks", which I read to mean "interrupt usage is very high during I/O >> across a zpool consisting of 5 disks". I misunderstood. >> >> IRQ sharing could result in what you see, but it sounds more like some >> weird interrupt routing/bug that might be specific to that Asus board. > > That's kinda what I fear might be the case. > >> The FreeBSD Handbook has a list of hardware. Anything that has its own >> xxx(4) driver (e.g. twa(4), twe(4), arcmsr(4), etc.) will suffice. Many >> of these cards handle SATA disks which appear as daX in FreeBSD, since >> they act as SCSI controllers. SCSI CAM on FreeBSD is quite reliable. >> >> Currently, the best SATA controllers I've seen that have native FreeBSD >> support (meaning the vendor supports FreeBSD) are Areca controllers. I >> have no experience with them due to their cost, but they are *very* >> fast. > > Ouch.... Are the any other options? > I'd be happy with a card that simply exposed the drive to FreeBSD rather > than implemented Raid. Although I won't rule hardware raid out either > (given a product that was fast enough). In that case, Promise cards are probably your best bet. They'll use the ata(4) driver, and disks will show up as adX, and they're inexpensive. Plus, the FreeBSD ATA author (sos@) has significant documentation on them, so they're fairly well supported. -- | Jeremy Chadwick jdc at parodius.com | | Parodius Networking http://www.parodius.com/ | | UNIX Systems Administrator Mountain View, CA, USA | | Making life hard for others since 1977. PGP: 4BD6C0CB | From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 08:23:19 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E40AF106567D for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:23:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8CFD8FC1E for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:23:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd4mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd4mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.69]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0K3400A4A4M9JG90@l-daemon> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml3so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.147]) by pd4mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K340068S4M9LA50@pd4mr6so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cydem.org ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K34003324M8SD30@l-daemon> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from freen0de (s64-180-126-80.bc.hsia.telus.net [64.180.126.80]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id 9CC1E800BA; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:22:53 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-id: <20080627012253.07e629e0@freen0de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i386-portbld-freebsd6.3) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> Cc: fbsd@dannysplace.net Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:23:20 -0000 > I'm thinking of getting a couple of Promise SATA-300 TX4 IO cards > (non-raid). Perhaps that will offload the CPU. Loading PCI bus with more plain SATA controllers? Don't expect any positive results. How about something like this: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330240176734 (PERC 5/i SAS RAID controller HBA, PCIe x8, 256MB RAM) -- $120 This should give you ~300-400 MB/s with your 5 drives. It might not work with your mainboard, though -- but there's a trick to isolate SMBus pins the card edge connector (search the Net). > -D [SorAlx] ridin' VN1500-B2 From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 08:35:07 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A90D1065679; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:35:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC7C8FC12; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:35:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC9QA-000GEg-Cn; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:35:06 +1000 Received: from 203-214-98-231.dyn.iinet.net.au (203-214-98-231.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.214.98.231]) by www.dannysplace.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:35:06 +1000 Message-ID: <20080627183506.atac8jmckkswcgc8@www.dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:35:06 +1000 From: Danny Carroll To: Jeremy Chadwick References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627053314.GA24239@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <48649424.4010700@dannysplace.net> <20080627073612.GA29122@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <48649AAD.4050806@dannysplace.net> <20080627075300.GA30448@eos.sc1.parodius.com> In-Reply-To: <20080627075300.GA30448@eos.sc1.parodius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) / FreeBSD-6.1 X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 18:35:06 X-Connected-IP: 127.0.0.1:55841 X-Message-Linecount: 43 X-Body-Linecount: 16 X-Message-Size: 1656 X-Body-Size: 570 X-Received-Count: 2 X-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on mail.dannysplace.net); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:35:07 -0000 Quoting Jeremy Chadwick : > In that case, Promise cards are probably your best bet. They'll use the > ata(4) driver, and disks will show up as adX, and they're inexpensive. > Plus, the FreeBSD ATA author (sos@) has significant documentation on > them, so they're fairly well supported. That's a shame that there is no middle of the road... It does not seem a lot to ask for an IO card that can ease processing on the CPU for SATA II devices. Like I said I'd be happy to let FreeBSD handle the raid stuff because ZFS just looks so handy. -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 08:42:18 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01063106566B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:42:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from mail.dannysplace.net (mail.dannysplace.net [213.133.54.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1698FC0A for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:42:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@dannysplace.net) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.dannysplace.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KC9X6-000GGk-QT; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:42:16 +1000 Received: from 203-214-98-231.dyn.iinet.net.au (203-214-98-231.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.214.98.231]) by www.dannysplace.net (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:42:16 +1000 Message-ID: <20080627184216.m7nz0snpwso8c4k4@www.dannysplace.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:42:16 +1000 From: Danny Carroll To: soralx@cydem.org References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627012253.07e629e0@freen0de> In-Reply-To: <20080627012253.07e629e0@freen0de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) / FreeBSD-6.1 X-Sender-Verify: SUCCEEDED (sender exists & accepts mail) X-Exim-Version: 4.68 (build at 19-Oct-2007 16:23:56) X-Date: 2008-06-27 18:42:16 X-Connected-IP: 127.0.0.1:53560 X-Message-Linecount: 47 X-Body-Linecount: 25 X-Message-Size: 1769 X-Body-Size: 892 X-Received-Count: 2 X-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Count: 2 X-Local-Recipient-Defer-Count: 0 X-Local-Recipient-Fail-Count: 0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: fbsd@dannysplace.net X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on mail.dannysplace.net); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:42:18 -0000 Quoting soralx@cydem.org: > Loading PCI bus with more plain SATA controllers? Don't expect any > positive results. I was under the impression that the promise cards actually offloaded some of the work, but I guess that can only happen with raid cards that present one disc to the OS. > How about something like this: > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330240176734 > (PERC 5/i SAS RAID controller HBA, PCIe x8, 256MB RAM) -- $120 > > This should give you ~300-400 MB/s with your 5 drives. It might not work > with your mainboard, though -- but there's a trick to isolate SMBus pins > the card edge connector (search the Net). Definately has potential. I think I might first focus on a motherboard that has a well supported IO chipset. If I can get over 200Mb accross the whole array then I'll be happy. After that I will look at a decent quality raid card. -D From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 27 15:11:14 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717A41065690 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:11:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583518FC25 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:11:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from pd2mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr6so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.9]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0K34004NHNG3P9D0@l-daemon> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:09:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml10so.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.121.80]) by pd2mr6so.prod.shaw.ca (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-7.05 (built Sep 5 2006)) with ESMTP id <0K3400JRMNG1F330@pd2mr6so.prod.shaw.ca> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from soralx ([24.87.3.133]) by l-daemon (Sun ONE Messaging Server 6.0 HotFix 1.01 (built Mar 15 2004)) with ESMTP id <0K3400HY8NG2MD00@l-daemon> for freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:09:39 -0700 From: soralx@cydem.org In-reply-to: <20080627184216.m7nz0snpwso8c4k4@www.dannysplace.net> To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Message-id: <20080627080939.23c29ea8@soralx> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.3.1 (GTK+ 2.12.9; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <486450DB.4000907@dannysplace.net> <20080627040545.GA21856@eos.sc1.parodius.com> <4864769C.4050002@dannysplace.net> <20080627012253.07e629e0@freen0de> <20080627184216.m7nz0snpwso8c4k4@www.dannysplace.net> Cc: fbsd@dannysplace.net Subject: Re: new server motherboard with SATA II X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:11:14 -0000 I wrote: > > How about something like this: > > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330240176734 > > (PERC 5/i SAS RAID controller HBA, PCIe x8, 256MB RAM) -- $120 > > > > This should give you ~300-400 MB/s with your 5 drives. It might not work > > with your mainboard, though -- but there's a trick to isolate SMBus pins > > the card edge connector (search the Net). > > Definately has potential. Scratch that, the card's performance is super low, lower than the grass. I'm testing it right now with two 15k.4 Cheetahs in mirror RAID. Two simultaneous reads [0] give ~19MB/s each (the drives can do >90MB/s each). Looks like the drives are getting thrashed with seeks (i.e., it can't read from both simultaneously!). Write performance [1] is only 50MB/s for single thread, and 20MB/s for 2 threads. bonnie++ measures ~22MB/s for writes too; the other figures look respectable, though, and blogbench shows some all right results (I can redo benchmarks and copy the results later if anyone cares). Maybe it performs better in striped arrays. I remember seeing figures like 500MB/s on forums, but I guess they tested only one thread at a time. [0] `dd if=/dev/mfid0 bs=64k count=65535 &` `dd if=/dev/mfid0 bs=64k count=65535 skip=132768 &` [1] dd'ing to file[s] on UFS2 slice > I think I might first focus on a motherboard that has a well supported > IO chipset. If I can get over 200Mb accross the whole array then I'll > be happy. > > After that I will look at a decent quality raid card. > > -D [SorAlx] ridin' VS1400