From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 9 11:25:55 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B899B106566B; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:25:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org) Received: from sakura.ccs.furiru.org (sakura.ccs.furiru.org [IPv6:2001:2f0:104:8060::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 657028FC15; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:25:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (authenticated bits=0) by sakura.ccs.furiru.org (unknown) with ESMTP id n79BPosG010117; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:25:53 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:25:49 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20090809.202549.27838630.nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org> To: mav@freebsd.org From: Takahashi Yoshihiro In-Reply-To: <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> References: <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 11:25:56 -0000 In article <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> Alexander Motin writes: > While preparing wrapping ATA(4) low-level drivers code into CAM SIM, I > would like to remove CHS addressing support to make code cleaner. CHS > addressing is officially declared obsoleted and replaced by LBA. Since > ATA/ATAPI-6 specification (October 2001) it is even no longer > documented. > > Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > Any other objections against removing it? PC98 uses CHS addressing because the internal interface works for very old HDD only, so I hope it remains if possible. But if you need a lot of works for CHS support, I agree to remove it. --- TAKAHASHI Yoshihiro From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 9 13:47:25 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E95B106566B; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:47:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ed@hoeg.nl) Received: from palm.hoeg.nl (mx0.hoeg.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:613:100::211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3618FC4B; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:47:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by palm.hoeg.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 243531CD18; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:47:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:47:24 +0200 From: Ed Schouten To: Takahashi Yoshihiro Message-ID: <20090809134724.GX1292@hoeg.nl> References: <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> <20090809.202549.27838630.nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="82NP6SxOLIStdcnZ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20090809.202549.27838630.nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: mav@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:47:26 -0000 --82NP6SxOLIStdcnZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * Takahashi Yoshihiro wrote: > In article <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> > Alexander Motin writes: >=20 > > While preparing wrapping ATA(4) low-level drivers code into CAM SIM, I > > would like to remove CHS addressing support to make code cleaner. CHS > > addressing is officially declared obsoleted and replaced by LBA. Since > > ATA/ATAPI-6 specification (October 2001) it is even no longer > > documented. > >=20 > > Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > > Any other objections against removing it? >=20 > PC98 uses CHS addressing because the internal interface works for very > old HDD only, so I hope it remains if possible. But if you need a lot > of works for CHS support, I agree to remove it. Wouldn't it be possible to keep the old ATA code in the tree for users who want to use stuff like this? --=20 Ed Schouten WWW: http://80386.nl/ --82NP6SxOLIStdcnZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkp+02sACgkQ52SDGA2eCwX+WgCfUg1hvFE15FXG3FU/VQz+khir ks4An2iOA1oAzUKd2O+oGONmX0hGacCM =xRVr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --82NP6SxOLIStdcnZ-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 9 14:15:52 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822E8106566B; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:15:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mav@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cmail.optima.ua (cmail.optima.ua [195.248.191.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B048FC19; Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:15:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.86.226.226] (account mav@alkar.net HELO mavbook.mavhome.dp.ua) by cmail.optima.ua (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTPSA id 251066089; Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:15:48 +0300 Message-ID: <4A7ED9DF.1080007@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:14:55 +0300 From: Alexander Motin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090405) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Schouten References: <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> <20090809.202549.27838630.nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org> <20090809134724.GX1292@hoeg.nl> In-Reply-To: <20090809134724.GX1292@hoeg.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, Takahashi Yoshihiro , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:15:52 -0000 Ed Schouten wrote: > * Takahashi Yoshihiro wrote: >> In article <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> >> Alexander Motin writes: >>> While preparing wrapping ATA(4) low-level drivers code into CAM SIM, I >>> would like to remove CHS addressing support to make code cleaner. CHS >>> addressing is officially declared obsoleted and replaced by LBA. Since >>> ATA/ATAPI-6 specification (October 2001) it is even no longer >>> documented. >>> >>> Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? >>> Any other objections against removing it? >> PC98 uses CHS addressing because the internal interface works for very >> old HDD only, so I hope it remains if possible. But if you need a lot >> of works for CHS support, I agree to remove it. > > Wouldn't it be possible to keep the old ATA code in the tree for users > who want to use stuff like this? I am going to make it switchable via kernel option, until new code completely settle. It should be possible to keep CHS support in this legacy mode. -- Alexander Motin From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 09:32:45 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40BB6106566B; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:32:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BAB48FC21; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:32:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from park.js.berklix.net (p549A4FFE.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.79.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n7A92dfM071047; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:02:41 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by park.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7A91xgO075873; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:01:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7A94BAB044505; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:04:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200908100904.n7A94BAB044505@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Alexander Motin From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://www.berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://www.berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Sun, 09 Aug 2009 00:39:02 +0300." <4A7DF076.4070203@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:04:11 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:32:45 -0000 > Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? Yes > Any other objections against removing it? Yes object sorry. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 09:43:02 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85391065675; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:43:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mav@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cmail.optima.ua (cmail.optima.ua [195.248.191.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF968FC43; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:43:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from orphanage.alkar.net (account mav@alkar.net [212.86.226.11] verified) by cmail.optima.ua (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTPA id 251128436; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:42:58 +0300 Message-ID: <4A7FEBA2.5090106@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:42:58 +0300 From: Alexander Motin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090805) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Julian H. Stacey" References: <200908100904.n7A94BAB044505@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <200908100904.n7A94BAB044505@fire.js.berklix.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:43:03 -0000 Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > Yes What it is? Some ancient HDD or flash card? -- Alexander Motin From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 11:06:51 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9795B106564A for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:06:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CAFF8FC21 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:06:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7AB6pjn025065 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:06:51 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n7AB6ovJ025061 for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:06:50 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:06:50 GMT Message-Id: <200908101106.n7AB6ovJ025061@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Cc: Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:06:51 -0000 Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o kern/120749 arch [request] Suggest upping the default kern.ps_arg_cache 1 problem total. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 16:38:33 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE341065674; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:38:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFE78FC33; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:38:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from park.js.berklix.net (p549A30CD.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.48.205]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n7AGcuup078141; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:38:57 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by park.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7AGcL4a080340; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:38:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7AGeYH0054650; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:40:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Alexander Motin From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://www.berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://www.berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:42:58 +0300." <4A7FEBA2.5090106@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:40:34 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:38:33 -0000 Hi Alexander, > Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >> Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > > Yes > What it is? Some ancient HDD or flash card? Sorry my first reply was short, a holding reply, ( A server died, & 2nd reserve needed time, still does ) I run 20+ assorted hosts from 4.11 to 7.2 Uni & Dual proc, i386 (real 386!) to 686 & amd64, so I guess I'm A) Pretty vulnerable to legacy scare. B) A litmus tesst for a wider community of others, some with older kit, not on lists or with bleeding edge latest hardware, but will get hit when stuff eg HCS gets declared legacy=dumped. (hardware@ & arch@ are more likely mostly high enders, lower percentage of legacy hardware users I guess) If I have to pull the lid on 20/25 hosts, to check disk sticky labels, I will if I must, but could you please reccomend people syntax to run on 4 5 6 7 RELEASES to check if a host is susceptible ? (Yes I know 4 is declares dead, but I still have lots of hosts with it & I suspect quite a lot of others do, be nice to know if any of those boxes are doomed to only upgarde to 7 not 8 ) BTW My configs & dmesg extract: http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/src/jhs/sys/i386/conf/HOLZ The genuine 386 host uses config name MINI. The config name SCAN represents a class of scanners with embedded FreeBSD inside that a bunch of people have http://berklix.com/scanjet/ I will turn on more verbose boot to increase http://berklix.com/scanjet/dmesg/4.11/ from its too minimal current ata0 at port 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 irq 14 on isa0 Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 17:44:12 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FC71065678; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:44:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mav@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cmail.optima.ua (cmail.optima.ua [195.248.191.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A91988FC16; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:44:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.86.226.226] (account mav@alkar.net HELO mavbook.mavhome.dp.ua) by cmail.optima.ua (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTPSA id 251187247; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:44:08 +0300 Message-ID: <4A805C2E.8020300@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:43:10 +0300 From: Alexander Motin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090405) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Julian H. Stacey" References: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:44:12 -0000 Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> Julian H. Stacey wrote: >>>> Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? >>> Yes >> What it is? Some ancient HDD or flash card? > > I run 20+ assorted hosts from 4.11 to 7.2 Uni & Dual proc, i386 (real 386!) > to 686 & amd64, so I guess I'm > A) Pretty vulnerable to legacy scare. > B) A litmus tesst for a wider community of others, some with older kit, > not on lists or with bleeding edge latest hardware, but will > get hit when stuff eg HCS gets declared legacy=dumped. > (hardware@ & arch@ are more likely mostly high enders, > lower percentage of legacy hardware users I guess) Are you administering computer hardware museum? ;) I have tested all drives I have and found none requiring CHS support. Even most ancient 850MB HDD and 16MB CompactFlash card I have support LBA. I have doubts that something even older that this is still working in production and require system there to be upgraded to 8.x. > If I have to pull the lid on 20/25 hosts, to check disk sticky > labels, I will if I must, but could you please reccomend people > syntax to run on 4 5 6 7 RELEASES to check if a host is susceptible ? > (Yes I know 4 is declares dead, but I still have lots of > hosts with it & I suspect quite a lot of others do, > be nice to know if any of those boxes are doomed to only > upgarde to 7 not 8 ) `atacontrol cap adX` can show you if LBA is supported. -- Alexander Motin From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 18:38:18 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15FFA1065670; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:38:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FF78FC1A; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:38:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9428A6D418; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5EA75844CC; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:38:16 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: "Julian H. Stacey" References: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:38:16 +0200 In-Reply-To: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> (Julian H. Stacey's message of "Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:40:34 +0200") Message-ID: <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.92 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Alexander Motin , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:38:18 -0000 "Julian H. Stacey" writes: > Alexander Motin writes: > > Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > Yes Have you really, or did you just assume that "old" means "no LBA"? > I run 20+ assorted hosts from 4.11 to 7.2 Uni & Dual proc, i386 (real 386= !) > to 686 & amd64 so I guess I'm=20 > A) Pretty vulnerable to legacy scare. > B) A litmus tesst for a wider community of others, some with older kit= ,=20 > not on lists or with bleeding edge latest hardware, but will=20 > get hit when stuff eg HCS gets declared legacy=3Ddumped. Do you seriously intend to run FreeBSD 9 on kit that is too old to support LBA? We're talking early nineties here. CHS doesn't scale past 504 MB, so any ATA disk larger than that must peforce support LBA. I bought my first 1 GB drive (Connor CFP1080) in 1995. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 18:52:43 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF95A106566B; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:52:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44A818FC16; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:52:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from park.js.berklix.net (p549A30CD.dip.t-dialin.net [84.154.48.205]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n7AIr7FR080193; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:53:08 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by park.js.berklix.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n7AIqXTb081324; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:52:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7AIseFv056967; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:54:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <200908101854.n7AIseFv056967@fire.js.berklix.net> To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://www.berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://www.berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:38:16 +0200." <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:54:40 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: Alexander Motin , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:52:44 -0000 > From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= wrote: > "Julian H. Stacey" writes: > > Alexander Motin writes: > > > Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > > Yes > > Have you really, or did you just assume that "old" means "no LBA"? Yes, I just assumed. > CHS doesn't scale past > 504 MB, so any ATA disk larger than that must peforce support LBA. Ah! If so, then no problem here, Thanks Dag-Erling :-) Alexander Motin wrote: > `atacontrol cap adX` can show you if LBA is supported. Thanks Alexander, I will check that tomorrow on every host I have. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey: BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Mail ASCII plain text not HTML & Base64. http://asciiribbon.org Virused Microsoft PCs cause spam. http://berklix.com/free/ From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 18:57:27 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C8A106566C; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:57:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5718FC16; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:57:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n7AIs3EW097288; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:54:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20090810.125403.74653324.imp@bsdimp.com> To: des@des.no From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: jhs@berklix.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, mav@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:57:27 -0000 From: Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:38:16 +0200 > "Julian H. Stacey" writes: > > Alexander Motin writes: > > > Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > > Yes > = > Have you really, or did you just assume that "old" means "no LBA"? > = > > I run 20+ assorted hosts from 4.11 to 7.2 Uni & Dual proc, i386 (re= al 386!) > > to 686 & amd64 so I guess I'm = > > A) Pretty vulnerable to legacy scare. > > B) A litmus tesst for a wider community of others, some with old= er kit, = > > not on lists or with bleeding edge latest hardware, but will = > > get hit when stuff eg HCS gets declared legacy=3Ddumped. > = > Do you seriously intend to run FreeBSD 9 on kit that is too old to > support LBA? We're talking early nineties here. CHS doesn't scale p= ast > 504 MB, so any ATA disk larger than that must peforce support LBA. I= > bought my first 1 GB drive (Connor CFP1080) in 1995. Is that also true in the pc98 realm? There's a number of weird combinations there which use CHS addressing, but that's kinda forced onto it by weird pc98 disk label format. I don't know if this is required, and older stuff just won't work or not, but I do know that there be dragons there. I know, at the very least, that the system requires that the CHS geometry reported by the drive be faithfully preserved. It is something we should ask nyan-san about at the very least... As for the 'are you seriously going to run FreeBSD 9 on them' argument, there's a rather large number of systems that people said would be too slow to run FreeBSD 7 or 8, yet they are running them better than anticipated. They said that about many of the same systems that Julian is running today. My question, and maybe I missed this earlier in the thread, is what's the benefit to removing this support? How much code is saved? Having said all that, I think it is OK, but I'd definitely poll the pc98 guys first... Just to make sure they don't need it and re-fork the ata driver to get it :) Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 19:19:10 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB3A106581F for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:19:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erikt@midgard.homeip.net) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5C28FC1A for ; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:19:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from c83-255-48-78.bredband.comhem.se ([83.255.48.78]:61190 helo=falcon.midgard.homeip.net) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1Maa97-0005BO-5K for freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:03:03 +0200 Received: (qmail 63176 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2009 21:02:58 +0200 Received: from owl.midgard.homeip.net (10.1.5.7) by falcon.midgard.homeip.net with ESMTP; 10 Aug 2009 21:02:58 +0200 Received: (qmail 33871 invoked by uid 1001); 10 Aug 2009 21:02:58 +0200 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:02:58 +0200 From: Erik Trulsson To: Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Message-ID: <20090810190258.GA25641@owl.midgard.homeip.net> References: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Originating-IP: 83.255.48.78 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1Maa97-0005BO-5K. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1Maa97-0005BO-5K 6d9daf5e170b97d6c70057604fd38256 Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, Alexander Motin , freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:19:11 -0000 On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 08:38:16PM +0200, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > "Julian H. Stacey" writes: > > Alexander Motin writes: > > > Have anybody seen ATA drive without LBA support in last years? > > Yes >=20 > Have you really, or did you just assume that "old" means "no LBA"? >=20 > > I run 20+ assorted hosts from 4.11 to 7.2 Uni & Dual proc, i386 (real 3= 86!) > > to 686 & amd64 so I guess I'm=20 > > A) Pretty vulnerable to legacy scare. > > B) A litmus tesst for a wider community of others, some with older k= it,=20 > > not on lists or with bleeding edge latest hardware, but will=20 > > get hit when stuff eg HCS gets declared legacy=3Ddumped. >=20 > Do you seriously intend to run FreeBSD 9 on kit that is too old to > support LBA? We're talking early nineties here. CHS doesn't scale past > 504 MB, so any ATA disk larger than that must peforce support LBA. I > bought my first 1 GB drive (Connor CFP1080) in 1995. Actually I believe even the very first version of the ATA standard (long before support for LBA or any other modern features was added) could handle larger disks than 504MiB. I think the original limit of ATA was 2.1 GB.=20 The 504MiB limit was actually the intersection between the limits of the PC BIOS and the limits of the ATA standard. (ATA and the BIOS had different number of bits used to indicate each of cylinder, head and sector. When you took the lower number of bits for each you ended up with the 504MiB limit.) --=20 Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 19:59:23 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66161065693; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:59:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mav@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cmail.optima.ua (cmail.optima.ua [195.248.191.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7F28FC25; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:59:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.86.226.226] (account mav@alkar.net HELO mavbook.mavhome.dp.ua) by cmail.optima.ua (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTPSA id 251192793; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:59:19 +0300 Message-ID: <4A807BDD.6040709@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:58:21 +0300 From: Alexander Motin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090405) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <200908101640.n7AGeYH0054650@fire.js.berklix.net> <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20090810.125403.74653324.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20090810.125403.74653324.imp@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: des@des.no, jhs@berklix.com, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:59:27 -0000 Warner Losh wrote: > My question, and maybe I missed this earlier in the thread, is what's > the benefit to removing this support? How much code is saved? It is not about code size, but about code structurization. ATA(4) has too much cross-level relations, making it cryptic. I am trying to unroll some of them to simplify code. > Having said all that, I think it is OK, but I'd definitely poll the > pc98 guys first... Just to make sure they don't need it and re-fork > the ata driver to get it :) GEOM has no terms of cylinders/heads/sectors, in fact it works only with LBA. CHS translation is only needed for drives, that have no native LBA support. It is not about disk partitioning or label format. It is just a method to linearize nonlinear address space of ancient drives. For last 10 years, since drives lost their classic geometry, drives are doing this translation on firmware level. -- Alexander Motin From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 10 22:27:19 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7F1106564A; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:27:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE4C8FC16; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:27:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n7AMNT4S003113; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:23:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20090810.162424.846948847.imp@bsdimp.com> To: mav@FreeBSD.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <4A807BDD.6040709@FreeBSD.org> References: <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20090810.125403.74653324.imp@bsdimp.com> <4A807BDD.6040709@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: nyan@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:27:20 -0000 In message: <4A807BDD.6040709@FreeBSD.org> Alexander Motin writes: : Warner Losh wrote: : > My question, and maybe I missed this earlier in the thread, is what's : > the benefit to removing this support? How much code is saved? : : It is not about code size, but about code structurization. ATA(4) has : too much cross-level relations, making it cryptic. I am trying to unroll : some of them to simplify code. Can you explain a bit more here... How pervasive is it, etc... I'm not saying this is a bad change, but I think people wishing to remove stuff should at least have a good result that's expected... : > Having said all that, I think it is OK, but I'd definitely poll the : > pc98 guys first... Just to make sure they don't need it and re-fork : > the ata driver to get it :) : : GEOM has no terms of cylinders/heads/sectors, in fact it works only with : LBA. CHS translation is only needed for drives, that have no native LBA : support. It is not about disk partitioning or label format. It is just a : method to linearize nonlinear address space of ancient drives. For last : 10 years, since drives lost their classic geometry, drives are doing : this translation on firmware level. GEOM does have terms of CHS when it reports the classic geometry of the device. That can't be lost, or pc98 partitioning breaks. And the geometry reported must be massaged too, but that's a different issue. The disk requests can be LBA, since the driver is responsible for changing that anyway... I don't think that there's any supported pc98 hardware that would break, but I'm not 100% sure... There's also some oddities at the lowest levels for pc98 controllers, but I don't think this change would affect that. However, like I said, ask the pc98 guys for sure. I've cc'd nyan@, since he can answer the question: "What breaks in pc98 if we lose support for CHS-based disk I/O?" Warner From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 11 07:35:13 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12E07106566C; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:35:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mav@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cmail.optima.ua (cmail.optima.ua [195.248.191.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A4F8FC20; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:35:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from orphanage.alkar.net (account mav@alkar.net [212.86.226.11] verified) by cmail.optima.ua (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTPA id 251229963; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:35:08 +0300 Message-ID: <4A811F2B.7050402@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:35:07 +0300 From: Alexander Motin User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090805) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "M. Warner Losh" References: <86eirjbjl3.fsf@ds4.des.no> <20090810.125403.74653324.imp@bsdimp.com> <4A807BDD.6040709@FreeBSD.org> <20090810.162424.846948847.imp@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <20090810.162424.846948847.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: nyan@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:35:14 -0000 M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <4A807BDD.6040709@FreeBSD.org> > Alexander Motin writes: > : Warner Losh wrote: > : > My question, and maybe I missed this earlier in the thread, is what's > : > the benefit to removing this support? How much code is saved? > : > : It is not about code size, but about code structurization. ATA(4) has > : too much cross-level relations, making it cryptic. I am trying to unroll > : some of them to simplify code. > > Can you explain a bit more here... How pervasive is it, etc... I'm > not saying this is a bad change, but I think people wishing to remove > stuff should at least have a good result that's expected... Do you really wish to touch it? Fine... CHS translation is now done on ATA controller drivers level. To work properly it needs data from drive IDENTIFY structure fetched from drive and stored on higher level. To wrap legacy ATA into CAM SIM I need to break that dependency either with dropping this functionality or reimplementing it on higher level. I would prefer first. > : > Having said all that, I think it is OK, but I'd definitely poll the > : > pc98 guys first... Just to make sure they don't need it and re-fork > : > the ata driver to get it :) > : > : GEOM has no terms of cylinders/heads/sectors, in fact it works only with > : LBA. CHS translation is only needed for drives, that have no native LBA > : support. It is not about disk partitioning or label format. It is just a > : method to linearize nonlinear address space of ancient drives. For last > : 10 years, since drives lost their classic geometry, drives are doing > : this translation on firmware level. > > GEOM does have terms of CHS when it reports the classic geometry of > the device. That can't be lost, or pc98 partitioning breaks. And the > geometry reported must be massaged too, but that's a different issue. That's completely different, and I am not going to touch it. > The disk requests can be LBA, since the driver is responsible for > changing that anyway... I don't think that there's any supported > pc98 hardware that would break, but I'm not 100% sure... > > There's also some oddities at the lowest levels for pc98 controllers, > but I don't think this change would affect that. However, like I > said, ask the pc98 guys for sure. As you could see reading above thread, I have agreed keep it in legacy ATA mode. But it looks pointless to support it in new development. -- Alexander Motin From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 11 10:56:11 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE274106564A; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:56:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org) Received: from sakura.ccs.furiru.org (sakura.ccs.furiru.org [IPv6:2001:2f0:104:8060::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5021F8FC20; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:56:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (authenticated bits=0) by sakura.ccs.furiru.org (unknown) with ESMTP id n7BAtxmr022632; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:56:02 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:55:59 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20090811.195559.61406403.nyan@jp.FreeBSD.org> To: imp@bsdimp.com From: Takahashi Yoshihiro In-Reply-To: <20090810.162424.846948847.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20090810.125403.74653324.imp@bsdimp.com> <4A807BDD.6040709@FreeBSD.org> <20090810.162424.846948847.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.2 on Emacs 22.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mav@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do we still need ATA disk CHS addressing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:56:12 -0000 In article <20090810.162424.846948847.imp@bsdimp.com> "M. Warner Losh" writes: > There's also some oddities at the lowest levels for pc98 controllers, > but I don't think this change would affect that. However, like I > said, ask the pc98 guys for sure. > > I've cc'd nyan@, since he can answer the question: "What breaks in > pc98 if we lose support for CHS-based disk I/O?" The following document in Japanese says: "PC-98 usually use CHS addressing. PC-98 does not use LBA addressing." http://www.webtech.co.jp/company/doc/undocumented_mem/io_ide.txt But I could use 400MB HDD with LBA addressing on my pc98, so it seems that my pc98 supports LBA addressing at least. I don't know older pc98 supports it or not. --- TAKAHASHI Yoshihiro From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 15 04:43:03 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30010106568D; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:43:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@optushome.com.au) Received: from fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995008FC45; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:43:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail12.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail12.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.193]) by fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n7F1xoip004937; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:59:50 +1000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c122-106-201-175.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.201.175]) by mail12.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n7F1xmvM028498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:59:49 +1000 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n7F1xmgq021435; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:59:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n7F1xmnt021434; Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:59:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:59:48 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: das@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20090815015947.GA4682@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: C99 Complex Math Functions X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:43:03 -0000 --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, I've recently had a requirement for the C99 complex math functions. I know you have been doing some work on implementing functions in complex.h and wonder what (if any) plans you have for implementing the rest of the C99 functions. --=20 Peter Jeremy --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkqGFpMACgkQ/opHv/APuIfEQACfSlZ9EX5dtuMhWc6kHbFSWf9F 0ncAoMBGRybKZMl8Kr1JuvRqfNrsJogJ =Ffiq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qDbXVdCdHGoSgWSk--