From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 29 16:59:08 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09B66106568D for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:59:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@stringsutils.com) Received: from zoraida.natserv.net (p65-147.acedsl.com [66.114.65.147]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F548FC16 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:59:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zoraida.natserv.net (zoraida.natserv.net [66.114.65.147]) by zoraida.natserv.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC561704F; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 (EDT) References: <200909290226.CAA28246@sopwith.solgatos.com> Message-ID: X-Mailer: http://www.courier-mta.org/cone/ From: Francisco Reyes To: Dieter Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Chat List Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:59:08 -0000 Moving to chat instead of performance. >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact that most >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad? As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will find there many good comments on this. > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on, but in real world usage > where it actually matters. Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other people's comments? If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux does a particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider using what works best. As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is what this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal with all the peculiarities in Linux distros. Also, as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion, some of the reasons Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between stability/security and speed. http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1384455 >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD may no not be up to par (ie Java), but overall I would much rather use FreeBSD if I had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are, in my opinion, extremely poorly designed and likely worst executed. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 29 17:20:32 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7DD106566B for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:20:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from solarux@hotmail.com) Received: from bay0-omc1-s30.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-omc1-s30.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.246.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 252D28FC26 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:20:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BAY113-W23 ([65.54.168.123]) by bay0-omc1-s30.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:08:34 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.204.19.98] From: Rick N To: Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:08:33 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <200909290226.CAA28246@sopwith.solgatos.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2009 17:08:34.0036 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A081340:01CA4127] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:20:32 -0000 "...Pick any colour you want=2C as long as its BLACK..." -its not always th= e car=2C its invariably the DRIVER !!! Obviously=2C as long that *IX works in your "real" world=2C then thats all = that matters. =20 Be situationally bound=2C NOT existentially. =20 :) =20 > From: lists@stringsutils.com > To: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com > Date: Tue=2C 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... >=20 > Moving to chat instead of performance.=20 >=20 > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact that= most=20 > >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > >=20 > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > >=20 > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad? >=20 > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will find= =20 > there many good comments on this. >=20 > > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on=2C but in real world usage > > where it actually matters. >=20 > Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other people's= =20 > comments? If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux does a= =20 > particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider using= =20 > what works best. >=20 > As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is what= =20 > this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal wi= th=20 > all the peculiarities in Linux distros. >=20 > Also=2C as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion=2C some of the re= asons=20 > Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between=20 > stability/security and speed. >=20 > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3D1384455 >=20 > >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD may n= o=20 > not be up to par (ie Java)=2C but overall I would much rather use FreeBSD= if I=20 > had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are=2C in my opinion=2C extr= emely=20 > poorly designed and likely worst executed.=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe=2C send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =0A= _________________________________________________________________=0A= Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends=2C in one place.=0A= http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=3D9660826= From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 30 09:11:16 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF2F106568B for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:11:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soralx@cydem.org) Received: from idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B249C8FC25 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:11:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pd5ml1no-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.153.166]) by pd6mo1no-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 30 Sep 2009 02:42:55 -0600 X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.0 c=1 a=YK3RP7YmNK0A:10 a=0S1XfAVaquWMAfU7ho/htg==:17 a=-rGBIGOjGWobw4lHJkkA:9 a=18UMTjiLqSbhskqbFiMA:7 a=6ATd-nRqczyj6sAc9BIz0OQuTREA:4 Received: from unknown (HELO cydem.org) ([24.87.3.133]) by pd5ml1no-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 30 Sep 2009 02:42:54 -0600 Received: from soralx (soralx [192.168.0.240]) by cydem.org (Postfix/FreeBSD) with ESMTP id ED7B97E804; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:42:51 -0700 From: To: Message-ID: <20090930014251.4f827302@soralx> In-Reply-To: References: <200909290226.CAA28246@sopwith.solgatos.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.2 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i386-portbld-freebsd7.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com, lists@stringsutils.com Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:11:16 -0000 > Moving to chat instead of performance. > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact that > >> most likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad? > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will find > there many good comments on this. Debug switches? Irrelevant, as 7.2 performed just as poorly (if not worse) in the threaded random writes test. One would think that the unrealistically poor [disk?] I/O performance bench data in FreeBSD was just a glitch, but using the OS everyday as a workstation, I actually notice that there could be some truth in those numbers. At least for ATA, when there's some disk I/O going on, file write operations that normally take milliseconds, may take tens of seconds or a minute! For example, loading the root disk with some serious concurrent I/O (portupgrade, find, tar xz, etc) makes opera unusable: the web browser normally saves "sessions" file everytime there's a change (e.g., a tab closed, or a page scrolled), and usually the write operation is unnoticeable, but with heavy disk I/O, one could wait for tens of seconds before, say, a page gets scrolled following keyboard input. I thinks that stream [memory benchmark] may also be demonstrating a weakness in FreeBSD, though I have doubts on this one. --- [SorAlx] ridin' VN2000 Classic LT From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 30 14:05:01 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4343A1065704 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:05:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ekerberos@web.de) Received: from fmmailgate04.web.de (fmmailgate04.web.de [217.72.192.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29F08FC3D for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:05:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from web.de by fmmailgate04.web.de (Postfix) with SMTP id 4FE8F61C14E9 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:04:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [87.79.200.199] by freemailng2703.web.de with HTTP; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:04:58 +0200 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:04:58 +0200 Message-Id: <1348437919@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Sisantha Godawela-Ohle To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: fm-user Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ X-Provags-Id: V01U2FsdGVkX19LEg+bY0aprsWMebeASBbOOZjoRVBwV7iZlcwNwWIeK+fgf HTJ1cCB0bYkFo3aLyVdXX4vYgrymGzf0rtrIgxU0I+7J+CXBaGpLsyc4u5jt Q== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:05:01 -0000 Hello dear FreeBSD Users, I would like to know the address where I can send some technical problems = regaeding BSDs Filesyem etc.,=20 could anyone pl. send it over to here=3F Sincerely, sisantha > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: > Gesendet: 30.09.09 14:00:57 > An: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Betreff: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 > Send freebsd-chat mailing list submissions to > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > freebsd-chat-request@freebsd.org >=20 > You can reach the person managing the list at > freebsd-chat-owner@freebsd.org >=20 > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of freebsd-chat digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (Francisco Reyes) > 2. RE: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (Rick N) > 3. Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (soralx@cydem.org) >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 > From: Francisco Reyes > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: Dieter > Cc: FreeBSD Chat List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; charset=3D"US-ASCII" >=20 > Moving to chat instead of performance.=20 >=20 > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact tha= t most=20 > >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > >=20 > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > >=20 > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad=3F >=20 > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will fin= d=20 > there many good comments on this. >=20 > > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on, but in real world usage > > where it actually matters. >=20 > Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other people'= s=20 > comments=3F If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux does = a=20 > particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider using= =20 > what works best. >=20 > As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is wha= t=20 > this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal w= ith=20 > all the peculiarities in Linux distros. >=20 > Also, as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion, some of the reas= ons=20 > Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between=20 > stability/security and speed. >=20 > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl=3Fsid=3D1384455 >=20 > >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD may = no =20 > not be up to par (ie Java), but overall I would much rather use FreeBSD = if I=20 > had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are, in my opinion, extreme= ly=20 > poorly designed and likely worst executed.=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:08:33 -0400 > From: Rick N > Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" >=20 >=20 > "...Pick any colour you want, as long as its BLACK..." -its not always t= he car, its invariably the DRIVER !!! >=20 > Obviously, as long that *IX works in your "real" world, then thats all t= hat matters. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Be situationally bound, NOT existentially. >=20 > =20 >=20 > :) >=20 > =20 > > From: lists@stringsutils.com > > To: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com > > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 > > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > >=20 > > Moving to chat instead of performance.=20 > >=20 > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact t= hat most=20 > > >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > >=20 > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults."= > > >=20 > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad=3F > >=20 > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will fi= nd=20 > > there many good comments on this. > >=20 > > > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on, but in real world usag= e > > > where it actually matters. > >=20 > > Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other peopl= e's=20 > > comments=3F If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux doe= s a=20 > > particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider usi= ng=20 > > what works best. > >=20 > > As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is w= hat=20 > > this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal= with=20 > > all the peculiarities in Linux distros. > >=20 > > Also, as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion, some of the rea= sons=20 > > Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between=20 > > stability/security and speed. > >=20 > > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl=3Fsid=3D1384455 > >=20 > > >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD ma= y no=20 > > not be up to par (ie Java), but overall I would much rather use FreeBS= D if I=20 > > had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are, in my opinion, extre= mely=20 > > poorly designed and likely worst executed.=20 > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > =20 > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/=3Flinkid=3D9660826 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:42:51 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: > Cc: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com, lists@stringsutils.com > Message-ID: <20090930014251.4f827302@soralx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII >=20 >=20 > > Moving to chat instead of performance.=20 > >=20 > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact t= hat > > >> most likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > >=20 > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults."= > > >=20 > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad=3F > >=20 > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will f= ind=20 > > there many good comments on this. >=20 > Debug switches=3F Irrelevant, as 7.2 performed just as poorly (if not wors= e) > in the threaded random writes test. One would think that the unrealistic= ally > poor [disk=3F] I/O performance bench data in FreeBSD was just a glitch, bu= t > using the OS everyday as a workstation, I actually notice that there cou= ld > be some truth in those numbers. At least for ATA, when there's some disk= I/O > going on, file write operations that normally take milliseconds, may tak= e > tens of seconds or a minute! For example, loading the root disk with som= e > serious concurrent I/O (portupgrade, find, tar xz, etc) makes opera > unusable: the web browser normally saves "sessions" file everytime there= 's > a change (e.g., a tab closed, or a page scrolled), and usually the write= > operation is unnoticeable, but with heavy disk I/O, one could wait for t= ens > of seconds before, say, a page gets scrolled following keyboard input. >=20 > I thinks that stream [memory benchmark] may also be demonstrating a > weakness in FreeBSD, though I have doubts on this one. >=20 > --- > [SorAlx] ridin' VN2000 Classic LT >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 > End of freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 > ******************************************** >=20 =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F GRATIS f=FCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 1 13:00:13 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF2E1065676 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2009 13:00:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ekerberos@web.de) Received: from fmmailgate04.web.de (fmmailgate04.web.de [217.72.192.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A6C8FC18 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2009 13:00:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from web.de by fmmailgate04.web.de (Postfix) with SMTP id BFBAA61C0973 for ; Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:59:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [87.79.200.199] by freemailng2702.web.de with HTTP; Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:59:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:59:56 +0200 Message-Id: <1349874867@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Sisantha Godawela-Ohle To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Precedence: fm-user Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ X-Provags-Id: V01U2FsdGVkX18F/8BbCId1nNxue7MqG7bHO5kEhIhEv4bHW42E6HbheOb59 rQU0cIJ1+/5/9mhQgvkGGSzVx0xWgO9MO+RE5zA3LGidud3j+GenCZXS5Wr8 A== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:00:13 -0000 Hello everybody, would like to know as why is in FreeBSD v 8.0 RC1 successfull installation= on hp Proliant DL 320 with gnome the gTerminal in System not available, a= lthough it is also installed=3F any clue would be appriciated. sincerely, sisantha PS. if this is not the right place to place the question, pl. kindly diket= to (send me) the appropriste link, thanks.=20 > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: > Gesendet: 30.09.09 14:00:57 > An: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > Betreff: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 > Send freebsd-chat mailing list submissions to > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > freebsd-chat-request@freebsd.org >=20 > You can reach the person managing the list at > freebsd-chat-owner@freebsd.org >=20 > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of freebsd-chat digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (Francisco Reyes) > 2. RE: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (Rick N) > 3. Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... (soralx@cydem.org) >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 > From: Francisco Reyes > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: Dieter > Cc: FreeBSD Chat List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; charset=3D"US-ASCII" >=20 > Moving to chat instead of performance.=20 >=20 > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact tha= t most=20 > >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > >=20 > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults." > >=20 > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad=3F >=20 > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will fin= d=20 > there many good comments on this. >=20 > > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on, but in real world usage > > where it actually matters. >=20 > Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other people'= s=20 > comments=3F If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux does = a=20 > particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider using= =20 > what works best. >=20 > As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is wha= t=20 > this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal w= ith=20 > all the peculiarities in Linux distros. >=20 > Also, as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion, some of the reas= ons=20 > Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between=20 > stability/security and speed. >=20 > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl=3Fsid=3D1384455 >=20 > >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD may = no =20 > not be up to par (ie Java), but overall I would much rather use FreeBSD = if I=20 > had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are, in my opinion, extreme= ly=20 > poorly designed and likely worst executed.=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:08:33 -0400 > From: Rick N > Subject: RE: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" >=20 >=20 > "...Pick any colour you want, as long as its BLACK..." -its not always t= he car, its invariably the DRIVER !!! >=20 > Obviously, as long that *IX works in your "real" world, then thats all t= hat matters. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Be situationally bound, NOT existentially. >=20 > =20 >=20 > :) >=20 > =20 > > From: lists@stringsutils.com > > To: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com > > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:42:13 -0400 > > CC: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org > > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > >=20 > > Moving to chat instead of performance.=20 > >=20 > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact t= hat most=20 > > >> likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > >=20 > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults."= > > >=20 > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad=3F > >=20 > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will fi= nd=20 > > there many good comments on this. > >=20 > > > Not just in the benchmarks with debugging on, but in real world usag= e > > > where it actually matters. > >=20 > > Are you saying this from actual experience or from reading other peopl= e's=20 > > comments=3F If it is from actual experience and XYZ version of Linux doe= s a=20 > > particular job better then I don't see why you should not consider usi= ng=20 > > what works best. > >=20 > > As someone who has had to use Redhat for over a year because that is w= hat=20 > > this job uses... I would trade some performance for not having to deal= with=20 > > all the peculiarities in Linux distros. > >=20 > > Also, as mentioned in the slashdot article discussion, some of the rea= sons=20 > > Linux may do better on some operations are a tradeoff between=20 > > stability/security and speed. > >=20 > > http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl=3Fsid=3D1384455 > >=20 > > >From having to use Linux I have found some instances where FreeBSD ma= y no=20 > > not be up to par (ie Java), but overall I would much rather use FreeBS= D if I=20 > > had a choice. "Features" like the OOM killer are, in my opinion, extre= mely=20 > > poorly designed and likely worst executed.=20 > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > =20 > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/=3Flinkid=3D9660826 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:42:51 -0700 > From: > Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs Ubuntu - Discuss... > To: > Cc: freebsd@sopwith.solgatos.com, lists@stringsutils.com > Message-ID: <20090930014251.4f827302@soralx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII >=20 >=20 > > Moving to chat instead of performance.=20 > >=20 > > >> This was discussed in detail in slashdot.. starting with the fact t= hat > > >> most likely debug switches were not turned off for FreeBSD. > > >=20 > > > "All of the FreeBSD and Ubuntu options were left at their defaults."= > > >=20 > > > My question is why is FreeBSD's disk i/o performance so bad=3F > >=20 > > As I mentioned... this was discussed actively in slashdot. You will f= ind=20 > > there many good comments on this. >=20 > Debug switches=3F Irrelevant, as 7.2 performed just as poorly (if not wors= e) > in the threaded random writes test. One would think that the unrealistic= ally > poor [disk=3F] I/O performance bench data in FreeBSD was just a glitch, bu= t > using the OS everyday as a workstation, I actually notice that there cou= ld > be some truth in those numbers. At least for ATA, when there's some disk= I/O > going on, file write operations that normally take milliseconds, may tak= e > tens of seconds or a minute! For example, loading the root disk with som= e > serious concurrent I/O (portupgrade, find, tar xz, etc) makes opera > unusable: the web browser normally saves "sessions" file everytime there= 's > a change (e.g., a tab closed, or a page scrolled), and usually the write= > operation is unnoticeable, but with heavy disk I/O, one could wait for t= ens > of seconds before, say, a page gets scrolled following keyboard input. >=20 > I thinks that stream [memory benchmark] may also be demonstrating a > weakness in FreeBSD, though I have doubts on this one. >=20 > --- > [SorAlx] ridin' VN2000 Classic LT >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 > End of freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 > ******************************************** >=20 =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F GRATIS f=FCr alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Oct 2 18:38:30 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00AC51065670 for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2009 18:38:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from illoai@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f214.google.com (mail-gx0-f214.google.com [209.85.217.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1568FC18 for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2009 18:38:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gxk6 with SMTP id 6so24822gxk.13 for ; Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:38:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=m/08dUKpxh6oSJ4WFqs/doN4P3xYEKR62ODXvBQbQDM=; b=Zbz23GOpBmKnj7MmUJ5RRZUbKFI1o/brGA/gU8a1mFOUXHZJx3nKXRPgwszYPLa79m VIirBkNiXiR5Y0KCkJFWkk2SIsMUCc9n3W0sMOHSBEfmja2M5NyOuFHBEdXqRVUUo0YM e/gBnmg/UHVxb+RkjNWLrtEh3ZbEgirh6oRWc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=gbEAEg3ePjdu9iVlTYqsw9p0zlIZjr5kYPcPAh7Wr6IqnpXwsurKPMkNvP6JwZ9LmC 8QCwzMWYe37VAyK/k8cbmLGVTsR7DyoMFbYarqyOjrzl03PSAPPu6Il/vqkVVR0PsPpe HgEGiHGi37cGIbGNlFgpCgM+UCj4k7iOFIDLY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.161.28 with SMTP id n28mr1626196ago.36.1254507014399; Fri, 02 Oct 2009 11:10:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1349874867@web.de> References: <1349874867@web.de> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 14:10:14 -0400 Message-ID: From: "illoai@gmail.com" To: Sisantha Godawela-Ohle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd-chat Digest, Vol 321, Issue 1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 18:38:30 -0000 2009/10/1 Sisantha Godawela-Ohle : > Hello everybody, > > would like to know as why is in FreeBSD v 8.0 RC1 successfull installation on hp Proliant DL 320 with gnome > the gTerminal in System not available, although it is also installed? > any clue would be appriciated. > which gnome-terminal perhaps? > sincerely, > > sisantha > > PS. if this is not the right place to place the question, pl. kindly diket to (send me) the appropriste link, thanks. > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org is probably the correct list, also, you will get better results if you compose a new mail to ask your questions. -- --