From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 16:24:56 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB4C1106566B for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:24:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from soyeomul@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f185.google.com (mail-pz0-f185.google.com [209.85.222.185]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EE908FC0A for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:24:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pzk15 with SMTP id 15so3195260pzk.3 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:24:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:date:message-id:from :to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=eq/tQXTSfNvwyEYVsQljGMwQvZboLOLVZfN7UX2JtZY=; b=aKf4BYO/pxs2Vp9l3ngOXuy3yhUJ9/Q942LiSMV1zkVHimew/FzPDHROyAaSv6Osjq 1fntO0zADpbFRG1Ztc5Oez2gHfu0ie3exyiv2ZO9UIl+cnHnVTqTD96FlUEqgUqFegmn h6mckpcgBS4R7ETsFr1mRIXSUA8QNKKpMvsco= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:message-id:from:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; b=j0fsb0QVaa0OodET3v1mavC27/2ji3WziaIZJQn9y8LOM+FjsQbGpY9AIXH/3JdE8Y 6tiE5YX6QOZox6HJ/xzMo/lInRSNBnyxN7len1k6xBC1EPfS4A9RGalUYfnEvfx+UHhz bKtkMr7P916F7Bi4GYV5TP/0OtalyY7+hddhs= Received: by 10.114.164.38 with SMTP id m38mr10739304wae.219.1258300505872; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:55:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from betla.izb.knu.ac.kr ([155.230.157.159]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20sm1128524pzk.9.2009.11.15.07.55.03 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:55:05 -0800 (PST) Sender: =?UTF-8?B?7IaM7Jes66y8?= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:55:01 +0900 Message-ID: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> From: bh@izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG) To: chat@freebsd.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?UTF-8?B?U2hpasWN?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/23.0.95 (i386-pc-freebsd) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Subject: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:24:56 -0000 Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! Sincerely, From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 16:55:51 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A99D106566B for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:55:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gedankezauberer@comcast.net) Received: from QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.243]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8583E8FC08 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:55:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.11]) by QMTA13.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5ToW1d0030EPchoADUvrVd; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:55:51 +0000 Received: from debianbox.local ([76.112.93.25]) by OMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5Uvp1d0060Yq9Sc8MUvqNi; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:55:51 +0000 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:53:05 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200911151153.06335.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:55:51 -0000 On Sunday 15 November 2009 10:55:01 am Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! > > Sincerely, I use both Linux and FreeBSD, so I may be of some help: First, I should point out that I've been hearing great things about FreeBSD 8 and Flash. Apparently the Flash for FreeBSD 8 is going to be a lot better. I too like to be able to watch Youtube and Myspace stuff, so it matters to me. As for a distro of Linux, well, that depends. I personally LOVE Slackware, Debian, and SUSE Linux. Those are the ones I'd recommend to someone who wanted to use it. Fedora is basically in my opinion crap. I don't like it, and I don't like Ubuntu. Neither one is really special or anything, but Slackware, being hat you're coming from BSD, should feel pretty much at right on. Debian is a great one too, and has APT to play with, and works fine with flash. Slackware will require you to grab the Flash thing yourself, but it works fine. SUSE works great, has a GREAT tool called "YAST2" which runs both in X and in a text terminal (Just type yast without the "2") and also it works out of the box a lot better than most of the corporate designed distros. It's got really good hardware support, and it finds things even Windows doesn't like to use. I've been using and talking about SUSE for a very long time because it's the best general purpose distro I've ever used. You can also download OpenSUSE for free which is also very nice. And it's a lot more stable than anything RedHat is going to give you. Anyway, if Flash is the only reason you're using it, you can either try FreeBSD 8, or, any Linux distro you like. I just personally would recommend either Debian, Slackware, or SUSE. -Allen -- http://www.myspace.com/farmacyofhorror Digital Horror Punk - Music I make! All done with LMMS All done with Linux and FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 17:04:57 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 440021065672 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:04:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@nuenneri.ch) Received: from mail-fx0-f227.google.com (mail-fx0-f227.google.com [209.85.220.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8698FC17 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:04:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm27 with SMTP id 27so5217548fxm.3 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:04:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.85.130 with SMTP id u2mr2271851wee.135.1258302961983; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:36:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:36:01 +0100 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marius_N=FCnnerich?= To: Byung-Hee HWANG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:04:57 -0000 On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 16:55, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! I can't advise you on linux but for me Flash 10 with linux_base-f10 and FreeBSD 8.0 works as good as on native linux. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 17:08:30 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C1F3106566B for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:08:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tonyt@logyst.com) Received: from smtp.webfaction.com (mail6.webfaction.com [74.55.86.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AAA08FC1E for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:08:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-px0-f182.google.com (mail-px0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by smtp.webfaction.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCB61C75371 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:08:29 -0600 (CST) Received: by pxi12 with SMTP id 12so3428252pxi.3 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:08:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.23.5 with SMTP id a5mr383346rvj.108.1258304908891; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:08:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <22166b750911150857h388391b7g4a541e4540a2ba79@mail.gmail.com> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> <22166b750911150857h388391b7g4a541e4540a2ba79@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:08:28 +1100 Message-ID: <22166b750911150908m628fe6edxc14f01e4ed0ba6d8@mail.gmail.com> From: Tony Theodore To: Byung-Hee HWANG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:08:30 -0000 2009/11/16 Tony Theodore : > 2009/11/16 Byung-Hee HWANG : >> Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for >> desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro >> like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! > > Try PC-BSD http://pcbsd.org/ > > If that fails, try Ubuntu. If that fails, try Debian. If those three > don't satisfy you, Gentoo probably won't either. I wouldn't bother > with Fedora, I'd look at Open Solaris first, but you may have to look > at Windows 7 or OS X. > > Tony Yikes! that was a little curt - my apologies. Please disregard and take Allen's advice. Tony From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 17:17:09 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E93CC1065670 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:17:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tonyt@logyst.com) Received: from smtp.webfaction.com (mail6.webfaction.com [74.55.86.74]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CABF18FC1C for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:17:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pz0-f185.google.com (mail-pz0-f185.google.com [209.85.222.185]) by smtp.webfaction.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C771C75328 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:57:58 -0600 (CST) Received: by pzk15 with SMTP id 15so3204516pzk.3 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:57:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.22.2 with SMTP id z2mr388509rvi.122.1258304277775; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:57:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:57:57 +1100 Message-ID: <22166b750911150857h388391b7g4a541e4540a2ba79@mail.gmail.com> From: Tony Theodore To: Byung-Hee HWANG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:17:10 -0000 2009/11/16 Byung-Hee HWANG : > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! Try PC-BSD http://pcbsd.org/ If that fails, try Ubuntu. If that fails, try Debian. If those three don't satisfy you, Gentoo probably won't either. I wouldn't bother with Fedora, I'd look at Open Solaris first, but you may have to look at Windows 7 or OS X. Tony From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 17:35:50 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E60D1065696 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:35:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from abhoriel@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f227.google.com (mail-fx0-f227.google.com [209.85.220.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B128FC0C for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:35:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm27 with SMTP id 27so5235978fxm.3 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:35:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:reply-to:to :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=EpB2gcUq/M3Ut+HNDVbv1rIuB/Y5WtqIg7OUgqdeVIo=; b=Y/0VDDlsutItAf90TsWvb0h6LgNz2K131NAw/Q/9cQU0A6EZUkvhYs1tCCOn/kneIK 7c4iCAJ2h9YflmQlgKp04yOx07RIDtwuhbFzrwpOgeBzS/rXZeRbrppJqqCwhvD6+HYx nCzbe2nZZrALMThufUJbn1AnemyOa7qe0Rd6g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:reply-to:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=jkbsRD6J2BxO5ieAyE4OhAVNe8VrANAF92CSUnw2YZpx9eLlEHueOTpYVPeX4+ba6y JFvTRHXiMUqVXeu8CndpG5umw6/O7X5cexE8SkXeBLr78CLyhgD54tVRSBH2Yi/T1AKy sf8OOh1EKE4Vo62h5W2bVrL+pWQCSlwIGLGRk= Received: by 10.216.85.132 with SMTP id u4mr28874wee.191.1258305028373; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.66? (94-193-126-66.zone7.bethere.co.uk [94.193.126.66]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x6sm6580858gvf.16.2009.11.15.09.10.26 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:10:27 -0800 (PST) From: Abhoriel To: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:10:10 +0000 Message-Id: <1258305010.5184.1.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: abhoriel@googlemail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:35:50 -0000 If you are familiar with FreeBSD ports, then you may feel at home with Gentoo and its portage system which is similar in concept. Jonathan On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 00:55 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! > > Sincerely, > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 18:07:16 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F63106568F for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:07:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 024588FC15 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:07:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAFI7EoD087149; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id nAFI7ERd087146; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:07:14 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:07:14 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Marius_N=FCnnerich?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:07:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: Byung-Hee HWANG , chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:07:16 -0000 On Sun, 15 Nov 2009, Marius N?nnerich wrote: > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 16:55, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: >> Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for >> desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro >> like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! > > I can't advise you on linux but for me Flash 10 with linux_base-f10 > and FreeBSD 8.0 works as good as on native linux. Likewise. And if that's not good enough, a Windows Firefox and the Flash plugin work fairly well in Wine. -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 18:18:18 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B2D1065672 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:18:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from canito@dalan.us) Received: from netbits.us (ptr-89.fastconcepts.net [209.18.107.89]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E2AD38FC15 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:18:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 30430 invoked by uid 1033); 15 Nov 2009 17:51:36 -0000 Received: from 75.72.9.167 by fastconcepts (envelope-from , uid 0) with qmail-scanner-2.05st (clamdscan: 0.94.2/16. spamassassin: 3.2.5. perlscan: 2.01st. Clear:RC:1(75.72.9.167):. Processed in 0.078782 secs); 15 Nov 2009 17:51:36 -0000 Received: from 75.72.9.167 ([75.72.9.167]) by fastconcepts.com ([65.17.208.225]) with ESMTP via SSL; 15 Nov 2009 17:51:36 -0000 Message-ID: <4AFFEB3C.5080402@dalan.us> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 05:51:24 -0600 From: David Alanis User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20091108) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> <1258305010.5184.1.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: <1258305010.5184.1.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: canito@dalan.us List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:18:18 -0000 Abhoriel wrote: > If you are familiar with FreeBSD ports, then you may feel at home with > Gentoo and its portage system which is similar in concept. > > Jonathan > > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 00:55 +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > >> Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for >> desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro >> like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! >> >> Sincerely, >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > Gentoo is by far one of the most configurable Linux distros out there. The original creator of Gentoo gave up Linux for sometime and went to FreeBSD and thus inspired the use of the ports system amogst other Gentoo components. Having said that, I also use FreeBSD and am a Gentoo Linux user. My recommendation is to stick with and go with FreeBSD 8 + flash.My reason being is that if you're going to learn one operating system don't give up until you've exausted all means necessary and it appears that this is not the case. As others have said, stay away from all Red Hat based systems (Fedora, CentOS, Enterprise Linux) I've never used Debian but I hear their developers are some of the best in the business. I wish you good luck. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 18:34:47 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C851065676 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:34:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA6B8FC14 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:34:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13872; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:34:41 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200911151834.LAA13872@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:34:42 -0700 To: bh@izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG), chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:34:47 -0000 At 08:55 AM 11/15/2009, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: >Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for >desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro >like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! Unfortunately, the best desktop Flash you are going to get is going to be for Windows. Not that I like Windows much, mind you, but I find that it makes a good browser platform and GUI terminal when used in conjunction with FreeBSD servers. As for WINE: I gave it up when it went GPL. I have no need for anything with a viral license. I am waiting for the day when I can build FreeBSD with a GPL-free toolchain and run without any GPLed code anywhere on the box. (This day may be coming soon, by the way. I hear through the grapevine that clang can build the FreeBSD userland and may not be far from being able to build the -CURRENT kernel.) --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 18:47:44 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E72F106566B for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:47:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gedankezauberer@comcast.net) Received: from QMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 383588FC19 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:47:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from OMTA17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.73]) by QMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5VzT1d0031afHeLA3WnkPX; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:47:44 +0000 Received: from debianbox.local ([76.112.93.25]) by OMTA17.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 5Wnj1d0070Yq9Sc8dWnklt; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:47:44 +0000 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:44:59 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> <200911151834.LAA13872@lariat.net> In-Reply-To: <200911151834.LAA13872@lariat.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200911151344.59732.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:47:44 -0000 On Sunday 15 November 2009 01:34:42 pm Brett Glass wrote: > At 08:55 AM 11/15/2009, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > >Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > >desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > >like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! > > Unfortunately, the best desktop Flash you are going to get is going > to be for Windows. Not that I like Windows much, mind you, but I > find that it makes a good browser platform and GUI terminal when > used in conjunction with FreeBSD servers. I have booted up Windows I think twice in the last 4 months, maybe less. I use Youtube to look at stuff, and I make Music with a Myspace Music account, and need to upload it to Myspace, and then listen to it in their Flash player. I run Debian Linux 5.01 on this machine, and the other I use would be Slackware 13.0 for uploads. I make the Music on this machine with Debian and LMMS, and also on FreeBSD. I've yet to have a problem and was kind of wondering why you said Windows was the way to go for Flash and browsing. I personally only use Windows as a Wintendo (Windows for a few games that don't work right in BSD or Linux, and everything else I do is done in Linux / BSD / Unix) and I don't dare surf the web or check email on a Windows machine. It's too risky! > As for WINE: I gave it up when it went GPL. I have no need for > anything with a viral license. I am waiting for the day when I can > build FreeBSD with a GPL-free toolchain and run without any GPLed > code anywhere on the box. (This day may be coming soon, by the way. > I hear through the grapevine that clang can build the FreeBSD > userland and may not be far from being able to build the -CURRENT kernel.) Aren't you sort of describing SunOS and some version of Solaris there? I find it hard to believe there are actually people in this world who won't use software because of the license it has, when they recommend someone using Windows and Firefox... Do you see the humor in that? > --Brett Glass Allen. -- http://www.myspace.com/farmacyofhorror Digital Horror Punk - Music I make! All done with LMMS All done with Linux and FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 18:52:18 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40448106566C for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:52:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from abhoriel@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0EC68FC12 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:52:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so5264219bwz.3 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:52:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:from:reply-to:to :in-reply-to:references:content-type:date:message-id:mime-version :x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; bh=g19y3YTCdwxXDeo6ekfUubwz8U9xBQCitwwK4p/QaI0=; b=x1D2CTI/0kN51hrk1rUheObu2tM2yMqvps9xvhH7sIq2hyoLXysZPBSfTQavm214pQ VPQMFvWlYezTmLw1h4XClp2BsIC+/FoSnoXoE1ic65M+vYIKjZRV7puv3b+y++TuxF+c TGN6uBGniG/nju5FoHGe+xeSK/zgAv8lGVBUQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:from:reply-to:to:in-reply-to:references:content-type:date :message-id:mime-version:x-mailer:content-transfer-encoding; b=KNKpXNFSr3Fa5ZOpS9ywA73fV9nWVoxwgEvkypP8SWmeJq37PIp/Mc07T4TD/JiIHg J1Mrh6pyrECgIfUZy4XrbQf5CYmHLqwPZXGuf96kSBIwCpGsTxfKkWs+NxEDsRYm/qtj SXB9EIoLrek4eqoScaoahNLFf3LuXLjCjTBk0= Received: by 10.216.90.203 with SMTP id e53mr1126934wef.86.1258311135751; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.66? (94-193-126-66.zone7.bethere.co.uk [94.193.126.66]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t2sm5750088gve.27.2009.11.15.10.52.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:52:15 -0800 (PST) From: Abhoriel To: chat@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <200911151344.59732.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> <200911151834.LAA13872@lariat.net> <200911151344.59732.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:51:58 +0000 Message-Id: <1258311118.5184.4.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: abhoriel@googlemail.com List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:52:18 -0000 On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 13:44 -0500, Allen wrote: > On Sunday 15 November 2009 01:34:42 pm Brett Glass wrote: > > At 08:55 AM 11/15/2009, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > > >Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > > >desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > > >like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! > > > > Unfortunately, the best desktop Flash you are going to get is going > > to be for Windows. Not that I like Windows much, mind you, but I > > find that it makes a good browser platform and GUI terminal when > > used in conjunction with FreeBSD servers. > > I have booted up Windows I think twice in the last 4 months, maybe less. I use > Youtube to look at stuff, and I make Music with a Myspace Music account, and > need to upload it to Myspace, and then listen to it in their Flash player. > > I run Debian Linux 5.01 on this machine, and the other I use would be > Slackware 13.0 for uploads. I make the Music on this machine with Debian and > LMMS, and also on FreeBSD. I've yet to have a problem and was kind of > wondering why you said Windows was the way to go for Flash and browsing. I > personally only use Windows as a Wintendo (Windows for a few games that don't > work right in BSD or Linux, and everything else I do is done in Linux / BSD / > Unix) and I don't dare surf the web or check email on a Windows machine. It's > too risky! > > > As for WINE: I gave it up when it went GPL. I have no need for > > anything with a viral license. I am waiting for the day when I can > > build FreeBSD with a GPL-free toolchain and run without any GPLed > > code anywhere on the box. (This day may be coming soon, by the way. > > I hear through the grapevine that clang can build the FreeBSD > > userland and may not be far from being able to build the -CURRENT kernel.) > > Aren't you sort of describing SunOS and some version of Solaris there? > > I find it hard to believe there are actually people in this world who won't > use software because of the license it has, when they recommend someone using > Windows and Firefox... Do you see the humor in that? > > > --Brett Glass > > Allen. Agreed. I have no problems with flash with my amd64/gentoo box, it works at least as well as it does on windows. Jonathan From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 19:08:28 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5DB7106566B for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:08:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from skeptikos@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f213.google.com (mail-bw0-f213.google.com [209.85.218.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 335BA8FC08 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:08:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz5 with SMTP id 5so5274784bwz.3 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:08:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GGbpR9ZACjUBdbw7KnnDx8qQIWyj0ZIRf8ocI/5fqP4=; b=QS0PqQ7XPoB2JUF4SVyYSeGRlO0k3VVXdf4Rvt1Yx9LclGUPFGplA4s18aFG4xoFXw ad6r6XtioHlohkgYwf2OUFSlL9cpbDd9uI2VTHldscdVi6c/8PXaRXWqjuUQwAC0TZT6 /XVDsj9AP6vAJQUf5egpzRZjyCFXl+EDlp9Kw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wozQLoyxPQDSm9Wic5MiuoZhrUYm64M/dBGJgRZ9qZUu8Hf381vl58YC8mjc05Rgo4 mFkxWX3yWO5CUtN7XQl/MI1jBkaUDk4jtQLIwCgiQwQZEF0/MiPOuaJ/69h7snRSKASM avluB6Mf8tKRSmllwZLQUmEkyOL1xV4RNFFlw= Received: by 10.204.48.144 with SMTP id r16mr2680698bkf.170.1258310145049; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.52? (e178000052.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.178.0.52]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z15sm5915891fkz.14.2009.11.15.10.35.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:35:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B0049FF.9040107@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:35:43 +0100 From: christopher floess User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20091001) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Byung-Hee HWANG References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:08:28 -0000 Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! > > Sincerely, > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I actually like arch linux. I came from FreeBSD, will come back to it, and I feel like arch linux is a great alternative for people used to FreeBSD. -- chris From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 19:41:44 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E76710656C1 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:41:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE418FC19 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:41:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.net (IDENT:ppp1000.lariat.net@lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14408; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:41:39 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200911151941.MAA14408@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:41:39 -0700 To: Allen , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <200911151344.59732.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> <200911151834.LAA13872@lariat.net> <200911151344.59732.GedankeZauberer@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:41:44 -0000 At 11:44 AM 11/15/2009, Allen wrote: >I find it hard to believe there are actually people in this world who won't >use software because of the license it has, I am, among other things. a professional software developer. Why should I use software whose license is explicitly designed and intended to deprive me of a livelihood (as the GPL is)? There is also a real risk, if you have looked at GPLed code, that someone will argue that your future work is derivative of the code you saw and therefore must be given away for free. No professional developer can afford the risk of being caught in this trap. It happens that I do give away some of my work (including contributions to the BSDs), but this is by choice. >when they recommend someone using >Windows and Firefox... Do you see the humor in that? No humor at all. Windows is mostly closed source (though some of its utilities are actually licensed under the BSD license), and that's fine. Programmers have the right to earn a living. Firefox has an ugly multi-part license that I do not like much, but at least it offers some non-viral options for reuse of the code. MacOS includes some BSD-licensed stuff and some closed source; again, that's fine. On the other hand, you may recall the grief that NeXT went through when it made the mistake of using a GPLed compiler. In any event, the real dangers of using GPLed code are twofold. Firstly, if you read the source, there is the risk of "contamination" (as described above). Secondly, you are encouraging an agenda which is intended to deprive programmers of a livelihood. This is unethical. --Brett From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 19:46:42 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837A31065676 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:46:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joe@geniegate.com) Received: from geniegate.com (geniegate.com [65.18.174.84]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D0128FC17 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:46:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from geniegate.com (geniegate.com [65.18.174.84]) by geniegate.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id nAFJAqXW066530 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:10:52 GMT (envelope-from joe@geniegate.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by geniegate.com (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id nAFJAqcc066529 for chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:10:52 GMT (envelope-from joe) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:50:51 -0600 From: Jamie To: chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20091115145051.GJ3847@apollo.podro.com> References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:46:42 -0000 On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:55:01AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! I ended up wiping freebsd and going with linux too. (for me, I needed audacity and I just could not make it work on freebsd for anything, not matter how hard I tried) Anyway, if you like freebsd ports, gentoo is OK. You can compile stuff with settings that apply to whatever YOU need instead of the generic settings. Slackware is nice & simple. (but can be hard to maintain) I don't recommend any of the debian variants, largely because you might have to deal with other debian people, it's like a cult culture or something over there, debiantology. The RPM stuff (fedora & redhat) seems really great at first, until it blows up and you're stuck in dependency hell. Perhaps they've improved that by now though. my corporate-ish clients use the RPM based linux because I haven't talked them into freebsd :-) Jamie -- http://www.geniegate.com Custom web programming Perl * Java * UNIX User Management Solutions From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 15 21:59:53 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CED01065676 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:59:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu (iron1.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.35]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0118FC0A for ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:59:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAGsBAEuC1B9C/2dsb2JhbADFYgEJBYQuiE+CUoFqBIN4gTuEOYJM Received: from edg02.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.66]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 15 Nov 2009 13:31:29 -0800 Received: from EHB01.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) by EDG02.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:31:29 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:31:29 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2009111513312736-371 ; Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:31:27 -0800 Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:31:27 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Byung-Hee HWANG In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> Message-ID: References: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 11/15/2009 13:31:27, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 11/15/2009 13:31:28, Serialize complete at 11/15/2009 13:31:28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:59:53 -0000 On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! Very bad things happened when I tried PC-BSD on 64bit architecture this past pay. I switched to Ubuntu http://www.monkeyview.net/id/965/fsck/bsdend/index.vhtml > > Sincerely, > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 16 12:34:36 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA44A10656A7 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:34:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51ADF8FC19 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:34:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAGCYJZL031672; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:34:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id nAGCYJBi031671; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:34:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:34:19 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200911161234.nAGCYJBi031671@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <867htr3hre.wl%bh@izb.knu.ac.kr> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:34:34 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: Is there anybody to use Linux? X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:34:36 -0000 Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: > Since FreeBSD's flash is not good, i'm considering to use linux box for > desktop, instead of FreeBSD. Please advice me about using Linux distro > like as Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Fedora! The newest flash plugin works fine here with FreeBSD 8 and linux_base-f10, with linprocfs and linsysfs mounted (I'm not sure if both are really needed for flash, but at least they don't hurt; I need them for other Linux binaries anyway). See the "20090401" entry in /usr/ports/UPDATING for information about how to update to a newer linuxulator. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "Unix gives you just enough rope to hang yourself -- and then a couple of more feet, just to be sure." -- Eric Allman From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 20 05:19:01 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F29106566B for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:19:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from mx03.dls.net (mx03.dls.net [216.145.245.199]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C548FC14 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:19:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [216.145.235.11] (helo=emailrob.com) by mx03.dls.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NBLta-0003PI-RS; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:18:59 -0600 Message-ID: <4B0626C6.5020406@emailrob.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:19:02 +0000 From: spellberg_robert User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fbsd_chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:19:01 -0000 howdy, folks --- i need to get some new monitors, but, it has been a_while. when i was buying "crt" monitors i would get sony [ love that "trinitron" tube !!! ]. nec was frequently recommended, although i never got around to trying any. however, time marches on. the "lcd" technology seems to be the current rage. q: if reliability was your only concern, which manufacturers [ 1, 2, 3 maybe ] would you recommend ? i like to tweak. the kind of manufacturer i want is one whose manual gives h & v frequencies and sync timings [ thank you, mr. lehey, for your excellent explanation of "mode_lines"; my first attempt, so many years ago, worked on the first try ]. my principal application is "xterm", using the default 6x13 character_cell, for command_line and "vi". i suspect that if "xterm" works well, then a general desktop will be just fine. at least one, probably two, will be as wide as i can find, pixel_wise [ 2100 ? ]. my current principal monitor is a ten_year_old sony [ 500ps ] which does 1600x1200x85 very nicely on ms_win, but, i had to back it off to 1440x1080 for "xterm" [ the foreground_dots get kinda hinky ]. it still works exceedingly well, but, hardware fails eventually [ sigh ]. [ i also have some 1024x768 models, but, i need width. ] because i will be using mail_order, i just don't want to find that one_or_more need service shortly after the purchase. btw, are there any lcd_technology "gotchas", of which the lcd_newbie should be aware ? tia. no need to cc, unless -chat is in_appropriate. happy thanksgiving to those who observe. happy everything to everybody. rob spellberg mchenry county, illinois From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 20 09:21:38 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47DC81065696 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:21:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olli@lurza.secnetix.de) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (lurza.secnetix.de [IPv6:2a01:170:102f::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34B68FC15 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:21:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lurza.secnetix.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAK9LKgw063203; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:35 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from oliver.fromme@secnetix.de) Received: (from olli@localhost) by lurza.secnetix.de (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id nAK9LKpf063202; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from olli) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:20 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> From: Oliver Fromme To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <4B0626C6.5020406@emailrob.com> X-Newsgroups: list.freebsd-chat User-Agent: tin/1.8.3-20070201 ("Scotasay") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/6.4-PRERELEASE-20080904 (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.1.2 (lurza.secnetix.de [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:36 +0100 (CET) Cc: Subject: Re: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:21:38 -0000 spellberg_robert wrote: > i need to get some new monitors, but, it has been a_while. > > when i was buying "crt" monitors i would get sony [ love that "trinitron" tube !!! ]. > nec was frequently recommended, although i never got around to trying any. > however, time marches on. > the "lcd" technology seems to be the current rage. > > q: if reliability was your only concern, which manufacturers [ 1, 2, 3 maybe ] would you recommend ? > > i like to tweak. > the kind of manufacturer i want is one whose manual gives h & v frequencies and sync timings > [ thank you, mr. lehey, for your excellent explanation of "mode_lines"; > my first attempt, so many years ago, worked on the first try > ]. When I used CRT monitors I also used to tweak mode lines, but I haven't done that in ages. It's best to forget about them alltogether. In today's world of digital monitor signals (DDC, DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, whatever), the graphics card and the monitor will negotiate the values themselves. You don't have to do anything. You should also note that the refresh rate is pretty much irrelevant for LCD displays. While 85 Hz did make sense for CRT monitors in order to avoid flickering, that's not necessary with LCD monitors. They won't flicker with 60 Hz which is a very common refresh rate for LCD. I can't recommend a certain manufacturer, though. My recommendation is to go to a shop, look at several monitors and take the one you like best, irrespective of the manufacturer. Do *NOT* buy an LCD display that you haven't seen with your own eyes before. I'm serious. By the way, back in the CRT days, my favourite was EIZO. I disliked Sony. My EIZO F563-T is still standing in a corner of my desk and is being used occasionally. Must be at least 12 years old now, but still working fine. Well, my > 20 years old Commodore 1084S is also still working fine and being used to playback DVDs. It's not useful as a computer monitor by today's standards, though. :-) Sorry for the digression ... Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M. Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung: secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün- chen, HRB 125758, Geschäftsführer: Maik Bachmann, Olaf Erb, Ralf Gebhart FreeBSD-Dienstleistungen, -Produkte und mehr: http://www.secnetix.de/bsd "And believe me, as a C++ programmer, I don't hesitate to question the decisions of language designers. After a decent amount of C++ exposure, Python's flaws seem ridiculously small." -- Ville Vainio From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 20 18:18:24 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC14106566B for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:18:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from mx03.dls.net (mx03.dls.net [216.145.245.199]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0018FC21 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:18:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [216.145.235.82] (helo=emailrob.com) by mx03.dls.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NBY3p-00018H-VT; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:18:23 -0600 Message-ID: <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:18:24 +0000 From: spellberg_robert User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:18:24 -0000 i thank you, sir, for your thoughts. Oliver Fromme wrote: > spellberg_robert wrote: > > i need to get some new monitors, but, it has been a_while. > > > > when i was buying "crt" monitors i would get sony [ love that "trinitron" tube !!! ]. > > nec was frequently recommended, although i never got around to trying any. > > however, time marches on. > > the "lcd" technology seems to be the current rage. > > > > q: if reliability was your only concern, which manufacturers [ 1, 2, 3 maybe ] would you recommend ? > > > > i like to tweak. > > the kind of manufacturer i want is one whose manual gives h & v frequencies and sync timings > > [ thank you, mr. lehey, for your excellent explanation of "mode_lines"; > > my first attempt, so many years ago, worked on the first try > > ]. > > When I used CRT monitors I also used to tweak mode lines, > but I haven't done that in ages. It's best to forget about > them alltogether. In today's world of digital monitor > signals (DDC, DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, whatever), the > graphics card and the monitor will negotiate the values > themselves. hmmm, some of the moboes that i recently purchased have something called "dvi-d" on them, right next to the 15_pin d_sub "vga" port [ all have vga ]. i guess i've got a new play_toy. i'll have to look into this. > You don't have to do anything. [ slow burn, then, sigh ] that's the problem with the world, today. when people don't --have-- to do anything, people don't --learn_how-- to do anything. oops, i digress. > You should also note that the refresh rate is pretty much > irrelevant for LCD displays. While 85 Hz did make sense > for CRT monitors in order to avoid flickering, that's not > necessary with LCD monitors. They won't flicker with > 60 Hz which is a very common refresh rate for LCD. this is useful to know. while i --have-- seen some that claim a f_vert up to 85_cps, 75 seems to be a popular top_end. > I can't recommend a certain manufacturer, though. no worries; other thoughts are good, also. > My recommendation is to go to a shop, look at several > monitors and take the one you like best, irrespective > of the manufacturer. Do *NOT* buy an LCD display that > you haven't seen with your own eyes before. I'm serious. holy moses !!! you are reinforcing my long_held belief that lcd is a downgrade from crt. > By the way, back in the CRT days, my favourite was EIZO. not familiar, but, i've heard the name. maybe, i saw some in grad_school. i --know-- i saw the name on a retailer's web_site, yesterday. > I disliked Sony. freedom_of_choice is good [ that'll get the secret_police after me ]. > My EIZO F563-T is still standing in a > corner of my desk and is being used occasionally. Must > be at least 12 years old now, but still working fine. today's world is a "throw_away" world, my friend. > Well, my > 20 years old Commodore 1084S is also still > working fine and being used to playback DVDs. It's > not useful as a computer monitor by today's standards, > though. :-) > > Sorry for the digression ... no need to apologize; digression is good [ i'm over here, officer ]. i'm a big fan of stream_of_consciousness. that reminds me of a story ... . > Best regards > Oliver in the course of researching this topic, i have learned much about the technology. what i don't get, else_where, are the useful tid_bits like "refresh_rate is not such a big_deal, anymore". i remain convinced that crt is superior to lcd. however, my options are few [ yes, i --have-- started researching the used_crt market; ya pays your money, ya takes your chances ]. i think much of this has to do with my "fear of the missing pixel". i guess it's not so major to the action_movie crowd, but, i do text_editing, which is --very--, --very-- static. [ for the record, i do --not-- watch video on a computer monitor; but, that's me. most of the product that i am seeing seems to be targeted at this market. at home, i have a dvd_player, a crt_ntsc_tv and a very_easy_chair. i do not mix myrna_loy with matt_drudge. } remember what i said about backing_off my pixel_count from 1600_h to 1440_h ? characters were mal_formed and distinctly dim [ i do yellow foreground, dark_blue background ]. it is as if the electron_beam was "clipping" the sides of the "holes" in the shadow_mask. i am the kind of person who, once he has found something that works "well" [ let alone "very well" ], tends to stick with it, because it is a "solved problem". also, i tend to buy several copies of something, so that i have spares [ think "sump pump" ]. third, i like to get, at least, one from the top of the product_line [ so that i have it, when i really need or want some feature ] and several from the middle of the line [ because they are "good enough", "most of the time" ]. with this in mind, i am familiar with the dis_satisfaction with the "twisted nematic" technology. iirc, i was aware of this previously, but, had forgotten. this will guide my thinking. [ further research has defined the middle_of_the_line: i need 1642_h at a minimum; 1680_h seems to be popular, so, i may get some of these. with 1920_h, however, i can put a narrow window on the side [ about 45 chars ]. another app requires 2092_h, so, 1920_h leaves me short; however, this app is less critical. it looks like i want to avoid tn. this brings me back to choice_of_manufacturer. ] the next time i drive into town, i'll have to stop into the big_box_store to have a look_see. sorry to go on at such length; once my brain gets going, my fingers tend to follow. rob From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 20 18:59:31 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6BE11065676 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:59:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from personrp@UPMC.EDU) Received: from msxedgnsprd01.gw.upmc.edu (msxedgnsprd01.gw.upmc.edu [128.147.248.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01538FC24 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:59:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from msxhcsnsprd02.acct.upmchs.net (128.147.28.1) by msxedgnsprd01.gw.upmc.edu (128.147.248.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.201.1; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:47:37 -0500 Received: from msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net ([fe80:0000:0000:0000:e138:c1a9:63.146.207.68]) by msxhcsnsprd02.acct.upmchs.net ([10.25.36.27]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:47:45 -0500 From: "Person, Roderick" To: spellberg_robert , "freebsd-chat@freebsd.org" Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:47:44 -0500 Thread-Topic: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request Thread-Index: AcpqDr3OASagD4c/RdKD0RSlsQNpswAAFejQ Message-ID: <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA30ED5BAF@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> References: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> In-Reply-To: <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:08:40 +0000 Cc: Subject: RE: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:59:32 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.o= rg] > > > > You don't have to do anything. >=20 > [ slow burn, then, sigh ] that's the problem with the world, today. > when people don't --have-- to do anything, people don't --learn_how-- to = do > anything. > oops, i digress. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > You should also note that the refresh rate is pretty much > > irrelevant for LCD displays. While 85 Hz did make sense > > for CRT monitors in order to avoid flickering, that's not > > necessary with LCD monitors. They won't flicker with > > 60 Hz which is a very common refresh rate for LCD. >=20 > this is useful to know. > while i --have-- seen some that claim a f_vert up to 85_cps, > 75 seems to be a popular top_end. >=20 You could get an LCD monitor that only has the 15 pin connection, then you = can choose refresh rate and play with modelines. At least on the Viewsonic LCD = I have which is 5 years old I had to do that to get it working. That is if you rea= lly want to keep doing such things. =20 > > My recommendation is to go to a shop, look at several > > monitors and take the one you like best, irrespective > > of the manufacturer. Do *NOT* buy an LCD display that > > you haven't seen with your own eyes before. I'm serious. >=20 > holy moses !!! >=20 > you are reinforcing my long_held belief that lcd is a downgrade from crt. >=20 >=20 > > By the way, back in the CRT days, my favourite was EIZO. >=20 > not familiar, but, i've heard the name. > maybe, i saw some in grad_school. > i --know-- i saw the name on a retailer's web_site, yesterday. >=20 > > I disliked Sony. >=20 > freedom_of_choice is good [ that'll get the secret_police after me ]. >=20 I'll second you belief that LCD are worse than CRTs for the most part. I re= ally like the Apple LCD monitors but these are in the high end range of LCD moni= tors once you start up there the picture quality and resolutions start to match = that of CRTs,=20 in my opinion. The only thing I don't miss from my CRTs is the high pitch h= um and reduced desk space. For the record my favorite CRTs were from SGI . The two I had were manufact= ured by LG, so my second LCD was an LG for this reason. It is definitely better than th= e Viewsonic, but=20 still not as good picture wise as the CRTs, IMO. Rod Person=20 Sr. Programmer=20 (412)454-2616=20 http://www.ccbh.com=20 "An educator never says what he himself thinks, but only that which he thin= ks it is good for those whom he is educating to hear."-Nietzsche From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 21 01:40:45 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE941065670 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:40:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@emailrob.com) Received: from mx03.dls.net (mx03.dls.net [216.145.245.199]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2668FC12 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:40:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [216.145.235.82] (helo=emailrob.com) by mx03.dls.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NBext-0003Gn-Te; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:40:43 -0600 Message-ID: <4B07451E.8020907@emailrob.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:40:46 +0000 From: spellberg_robert User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Person, Roderick" , fbsd_chat References: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA30ED5BAF@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Re: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:40:45 -0000 i thank you, sir, also. Person, Roderick wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org] >> >> >> > You don't have to do anything. >> >>[ slow burn, then, sigh ] that's the problem with the world, today. >>when people don't --have-- to do anything, people don't --learn_how-- to do >>anything. >>oops, i digress. >> >> >> >> >>>You should also note that the refresh rate is pretty much >>>irrelevant for LCD displays. While 85 Hz did make sense >>>for CRT monitors in order to avoid flickering, that's not >>>necessary with LCD monitors. They won't flicker with >>>60 Hz which is a very common refresh rate for LCD. >> >>this is useful to know. >>while i --have-- seen some that claim a f_vert up to 85_cps, >> 75 seems to be a popular top_end. >> > > > You could get an LCD monitor that only has the 15 pin connection, then you can > choose refresh rate and play with modelines. At least on the Viewsonic LCD I have > which is 5 years old I had to do that to get it working. That is if you really want to keep doing such things. it isn't that i --want-- to keep doing this; it is that i --can-- do so, if i desire. for my 500ps, i had set up 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960 and 1600x1200; all at 85. once i had tweaked these to my satisfaction, i left them alone. this was quite_a_few years ago. about two weeks ago, i decided to try improving on the 1280x960; this led to adding 1440x1080, which i like very much, now that i have used it for a_while. you see, i am a hardware guy. some fellows tweak gasoline engines. i met a machinist who built a steam_locomotive at 1:8 scale [ i think it was a 4_8_4 ]. i have a friend in the flower business [ roses ] who builds chairs out of wood. if i had my druthers, i'd be building small systems out of hcmos 8_bit single_chip_controllers and msi [ lately, i have become intrigued by energy_conversion ]. another way to while_away the time is to build hf_band receivers and [ < 5_watt ] transmitters out of vacuum_tubes. winding coils is --very-- therapeutic. >>>My recommendation is to go to a shop, look at several >>>monitors and take the one you like best, irrespective >>>of the manufacturer. Do *NOT* buy an LCD display that >>>you haven't seen with your own eyes before. I'm serious. >> >>holy moses !!! >> >>you are reinforcing my long_held belief that lcd is a downgrade from crt. >> >> >> >>>By the way, back in the CRT days, my favourite was EIZO. >> >>not familiar, but, i've heard the name. >>maybe, i saw some in grad_school. >>i --know-- i saw the name on a retailer's web_site, yesterday. >> >> >>>I disliked Sony. >> >>freedom_of_choice is good [ that'll get the secret_police after me ]. >> > > > I'll second you belief that LCD are worse than CRTs for the most part. I really > like the Apple LCD monitors but these are in the high end range of LCD monitors > once you start up there the picture quality and resolutions start to match that of CRTs, > in my opinion. The only thing I don't miss from my CRTs is the high pitch hum and > reduced desk space. i thoroughly understand. from my late parents, i inherited a very solid, wooden "equipment_stand" [ for lack of a better term ]. it's about 30" high, with a footprint of about 18" x 24". the legs are 2x2 and it has a 3/4" shelf a little more than halfway up. it has routered moldings. it is stained darkly; it --might-- be mahogany. this thing is solid; i think it dates from the 1920s. no veneered plywood here; it is made the way --i-- would make a stand, --if-- i made stands [ hmmm ... ]. it's the kind of stand that would very comfortably support one of those 15_digit, motorized, mechanical calculating_machines that made ibm famous, not unlike the machine that jack lemmon is seen using in the opening scene of "the apartment" [ billy wilder, 1960 ]; those things were --heavy--. it sits at the side of my desk, which is a good thing, because the desk space is occupied by four mid_towers. the fans in those things mask any hum. between the am_radio and my tinnitis, i don't notice any high pitches, either. ah, bliss. > For the record my favorite CRTs were from SGI . The two I had were manufactured by LG, > so my second LCD was an LG for this reason. It is definitely better than the Viewsonic, but > still not as good picture wise as the CRTs, IMO. i am not impressed by what i read regarding viewsonic. i know next to nothing about lg, but, i will look into them. > Rod Person > Sr. Programmer > (412)454-2616 > http://www.ccbh.com > > "An educator never says what he himself thinks, but only that which he thinks it is good for those whom he is educating to hear."-Nietzsche rob From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 21 16:48:20 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD606106566C for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:48:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lomion@mac.com) Received: from asmtpout026.mac.com (asmtpout026.mac.com [17.148.16.101]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7BF38FC0C for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:48:19 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Received: from [10.0.1.48] (c-68-45-217-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [68.45.217.29]) by asmtp026.mac.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-8.01 (built Dec 16 2008; 32bit)) with ESMTPSA id <0KTG00CULUJC5010@asmtp026.mac.com> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:47:38 -0800 (PST) Message-id: <00029DC7-4B52-47AC-8EE7-0E4B94631A24@mac.com> From: Lawrence Sica To: spellberg_robert In-reply-to: <4B07451E.8020907@emailrob.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:47:35 -0500 References: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA30ED5BAF@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> <4B07451E.8020907@emailrob.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: "Person, Roderick" , fbsd_chat Subject: Re: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:48:20 -0000 On Nov 20, 2009, at 8:40 PM, spellberg_robert wrote: > i thank you, sir, also. > > > > Person, Roderick wrote: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org >>> ] >>> >>> >>> > You don't have to do anything. >>> >>> [ slow burn, then, sigh ] that's the problem with the world, today. >>> when people don't --have-- to do anything, people don't -- >>> learn_how-- to do >>> anything. >>> oops, i digress. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> You should also note that the refresh rate is pretty much >>>> irrelevant for LCD displays. While 85 Hz did make sense >>>> for CRT monitors in order to avoid flickering, that's not >>>> necessary with LCD monitors. They won't flicker with >>>> 60 Hz which is a very common refresh rate for LCD. >>> >>> this is useful to know. >>> while i --have-- seen some that claim a f_vert up to 85_cps, >>> 75 seems to be a popular top_end. >>> >> You could get an LCD monitor that only has the 15 pin connection, >> then you can >> choose refresh rate and play with modelines. At least on the >> Viewsonic LCD I have >> which is 5 years old I had to do that to get it working. That is if >> you really want to keep doing such things. > > it isn't that i --want-- to keep doing this; it is that i --can-- do > so, if i desire. > for my 500ps, i had set up 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960 and > 1600x1200; all at 85. > once i had tweaked these to my satisfaction, i left them alone. > this was quite_a_few years ago. > about two weeks ago, i decided to try improving on the 1280x960; > this led to adding 1440x1080, which i like very much, now that i > have used it for a_while. > An LCD is not like an CRT. You cannot mess with resolution and expect it to look good, or even readable in some cases. LCDs are meant to run at a native resolution and switching from them is not recommended in most cases. In fact if you want to tweak much then a LCD is not for you. You don't need to, and really should not, go outside manufacturer settings on an LCD. > you see, i am a hardware guy. > some fellows tweak gasoline engines. > i met a machinist who built a steam_locomotive at 1:8 scale [ i > think it was a 4_8_4 ]. > i have a friend in the flower business [ roses ] who builds chairs > out of wood. > if i had my druthers, > i'd be building small systems out of hcmos 8_bit > single_chip_controllers and msi > [ lately, i have become intrigued by energy_conversion ]. > another way to while_away the time is to > build hf_band receivers and [ < 5_watt ] transmitters out of > vacuum_tubes. > winding coils is --very-- therapeutic. > > > >>>> My recommendation is to go to a shop, look at several >>>> monitors and take the one you like best, irrespective >>>> of the manufacturer. Do *NOT* buy an LCD display that >>>> you haven't seen with your own eyes before. I'm serious. >>> >>> holy moses !!! >>> >>> you are reinforcing my long_held belief that lcd is a downgrade >>> from crt. They are not downgrades, they are just different. There are pros and cons to each. Unless you are doing high end graphics work the main advantages of a CRT don't really apply. Things have changed quite a bit. --Larry From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 21 19:54:32 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77CB61065670 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:54:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388998FC26 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:54:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73CF56D41B; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:54:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 46C7F844F2; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:54:30 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: spellberg_robert References: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA30ED5BAF@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> <4B07451E.8020907@emailrob.com> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:54:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4B07451E.8020907@emailrob.com> (spellberg robert's message of "Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:40:46 +0000") Message-ID: <866393vekq.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.95 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "Person, Roderick" , fbsd_chat Subject: Re: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:54:32 -0000 spellberg_robert writes: > Person, Roderick writes: > > You could get an LCD monitor that only has the 15 pin connection, > > then you can choose refresh rate and play with modelines. At least > > on the Viewsonic LCD I have which is 5 years old I had to do that to > > get it working. That is if you really want to keep doing such > > things. > it isn't that i --want-- to keep doing this; it is that i --can-- do > so, if i desire. A CRT has an electrom beam that sweeps across the screen left to right and top to bottom, and the horizontal and vertical sync frequencies control how fast the beam moves. An LCD panel does not have an electron beam; it has discrete, individually adressable pixels. If you insist on hooking it up to an analog port, it will have to convert the analog signal to a digital signal in order to display it, and you will get sampling artifacts, aliasing etc. I don't care how good you are at writing modelines; you will never come up with one that looks better than what you will get with a digital connection. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 21 20:15:00 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F30C106566B for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:15:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brett@lariat.net) Received: from lariat.net (lariat.net [66.119.58.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D498FC0C for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:14:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from anne-o1dpaayth1.lariat.net (hdl.lariat.net [66.119.58.133]) by lariat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02010; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:14:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200911212014.NAA02010@lariat.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:14:26 -0700 To: Dag-Erling Smørgrav , spellberg_robert From: Brett Glass In-Reply-To: <866393vekq.fsf@ds4.des.no> References: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA30ED5BAF@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> <4B07451E.8020907@emailrob.com> <866393vekq.fsf@ds4.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "Person, Roderick" , fbsd_chat Subject: Re: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:15:00 -0000 At 12:54 PM 11/21/2009, Dag-Erling Smørgrav wrote: >A CRT has an electrom beam that sweeps across the screen left to right >and top to bottom, and the horizontal and vertical sync frequencies >control how fast the beam moves. An LCD panel does not have an electron >beam; it has discrete, individually adressable pixels. If you insist on >hooking it up to an analog port, it will have to convert the analog >signal to a digital signal in order to display it, and you will get >sampling artifacts, aliasing etc. I don't care how good you are at >writing modelines; you will never come up with one that looks better >than what you will get with a digital connection. Unfortunately, some monitors with digital interfaces are not compatible with some LCD displays, even though the sockets and cables look like they match up. For example, I recently tried to hook an Asus "Eee Box", which has an HDMI connector, up to a Samsung LCD display using a digital cable. Couldn't get it to work at all, no matter how I adjusted the settings on both. But when I used an analog adapter and cable, it worked on the first try at maximum resolution, with (fortunately) few or no noticeable artifacts. Analog isn't ideal, but it's a good fallback. --Brett Glass From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Nov 21 21:43:48 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50B1F1065670 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:43:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD718FC13 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:43:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nALLO823017346; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:24:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id nALLO7LQ017343; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:24:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:24:07 -0700 (MST) From: Warren Block To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <866393vekq.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <200911200921.nAK9LKpf063202@lurza.secnetix.de> <4B06DD70.8030308@emailrob.com> <1AE59099C6D80E41BEB64A1768AFB4EA30ED5BAF@msxmbxnsprd18.acct.upmchs.net> <4B07451E.8020907@emailrob.com> <866393vekq.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:24:08 -0700 (MST) Cc: "Person, Roderick" , fbsd_chat Subject: Re: lcd monitor manufacturer recommendation request X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:43:48 -0000 On Sat, 21 Nov 2009, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: > spellberg_robert writes: >> Person, Roderick writes: >>> You could get an LCD monitor that only has the 15 pin connection, >>> then you can choose refresh rate and play with modelines. At least >>> on the Viewsonic LCD I have which is 5 years old I had to do that to >>> get it working. That is if you really want to keep doing such >>> things. >> it isn't that i --want-- to keep doing this; it is that i --can-- do >> so, if i desire. > > A CRT has an electrom beam that sweeps across the screen left to right > and top to bottom, and the horizontal and vertical sync frequencies > control how fast the beam moves. An LCD panel does not have an electron > beam; it has discrete, individually adressable pixels. If you insist on > hooking it up to an analog port, it will have to convert the analog > signal to a digital signal in order to display it, and you will get > sampling artifacts, aliasing etc. I don't care how good you are at > writing modelines; you will never come up with one that looks better > than what you will get with a digital connection. For any technical use, an LCD should be used at native resolution. But I remember 800x600 on a 1024x768 LCD to be surprisingly good (the users insisted). Kind of a painted effect. Not a problem for those particular users, but they were not technical and PEBKAC applies. What hasn't been mentioned yet is LCD panel types. For many uses, TN is fine. For photography and other graphics, IPS shows a lot of detail that TN can't, and PVA is somewhere in the middle: http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php Lots of information here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=39226 -Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota USA