From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 12:05:54 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4411065670 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:05:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com (mail-qy0-f176.google.com [209.85.221.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163568FC17 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:05:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk6 with SMTP id 6so880237qyk.3 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:05:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=eWIcXUnmEQ3yBt/x/YR7EKcA54R8MS4Sqxqbht+IKBs=; b=kkpQSDzSAadEAJonSGDAlx8ul4dLCPVWp0Gf+oQJ+zz0/SQIGqIyQSdeah7Q9Lz8rd Nz5W48GJuhbGu2TJymycRpcsmUnGqnLyKVKC/jkOpQo5NGZGK0aQlrUZXO5VIUqif36b 264oQVNrYROWNvsEYehH8suA9vUlgszPpfE6U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=APWGgaLMbht5bMtExP4reeD5ji3u6RtFi9Q81h4+pt0CXuoEMprpten9+Pxb8f9g8e A6spsayfxjsqe6bxbAU4zfb7Go+XDhk9HQpFqv7nxFa3hGcaxelTDHfPNGHKcGs6lDZO N08cY0aYPMOI39XbeFZOZluTryqp37GBcO8fg= Received: by 10.224.41.75 with SMTP id n11mr1586568qae.76.1260618177857; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from aryeh-desktop.istudentunion.com (ool-44c0cd7a.dyn.optonline.net [68.192.205.122]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 20sm2352004qyk.1.2009.12.12.03.42.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:42:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:42:55 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20091103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:05:54 -0000 Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only the first on is a new observation likely): * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program was counterfeit * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save documents From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 12:44:01 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA15106566B for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:44:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-px0-f182.google.com (mail-px0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92FD98FC13 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:44:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pxi12 with SMTP id 12so384050pxi.3 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:44:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gxYobPmOVzfMEGkUV2ndWk+s3jy+ngK/fYP+BOKnWRQ=; b=bs3A+DMYFuqflAGyEPkx76TK1pT7SnU90A1JDZbQAfQTvbRG4HC12P+nioiSrztqTN je4q92ZyS1va/UR0O6EaWz0wLM6ZWmgM36G4v+r40b/ISLD0DtSCsHjGuNzuEoA3+fPD UHtfEwUvaY5pehJnIsd25Xajmf3ahXLl1tRn0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=ZzVn7+vWDibeO/7Xk5QUKL/7JWR86ENt2iRdM5WaiUXiRiR/csIo5PTE9NVbTQQ0AF r8YM2K3diZCSfy45yM7u3TmoGu/64L09U/0qX7osi8alCw+QjvpIgaBqhAud2M/s66bw XDN6Uzf6s6RMmd5QvyRlPsqsVVbYHmIUFxkZo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sektie@gmail.com Received: by 10.142.61.41 with SMTP id j41mr1548036wfa.335.1260621841189; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:44:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 04:44:01 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3439306971628403 Message-ID: From: Randi Harper To: "Aryeh M. Friedman" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:44:01 -0000 On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. =A0 The actually= know > how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only the firs= t > on is a new observation likely): > > =A0 * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program wa= s > counterfeit > =A0 * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often > =A0 * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save > documents Unproductive. Seriously? You want to talk about how Microsoft sucks? Nothing you've said is original or even entertaining. 1.) What the hell? Are you smoking something? I don't even know how to respond to that other than: clearly you think FreeBSD has no bugs. Awesome. 2.) Yeah. Because I can totally run KDE 4 on my AMD K6-2. mysql with sizable databases runs like a fiend on 256MB of RAM. With more complex software comes the need for better hardware. Next you're going to say that the gaming industry is a conspiracy. We should have just stuck with DOOM because everything else requires a better video card. 3.) Hint: It's the save option in the file menu. In vi, it's :w. Which of these is less intuitive? Did you just discover UNIX or something? Power to you for your enthusiasm, but bashing other operating systems with uninformed opinions just makes you look dumb. Still laughing about #1. -- randi From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 14:08:44 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0F9106566C for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:08:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from a.j.werven@student.utwente.nl) Received: from satellite.xs4all.nl (zoefsam.xs4all.nl [82.95.125.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 485328FC14 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:08:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from satellite.xs4all.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by satellite.xs4all.nl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBCDUvI1003699; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:30:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from fonz@satellite.xs4all.nl) Received: (from fonz@localhost) by satellite.xs4all.nl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id nBCDUvnQ003698; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:30:57 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from fonz) From: "A.J. \"Fonz\" van Werven" Message-Id: <200912121330.nBCDUvnQ003698@satellite.xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: To: Randi Harper Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:30:56 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL124c (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:08:44 -0000 Randi Harper wrote: > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman > wrote: > > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. [snip very old joke] > Unproductive. Seriously? You want to talk about how Microsoft sucks? > Nothing you've said is original or even entertaining. > > 1.) What the hell? Are you smoking something? [snip] > Did you just discover UNIX or something? Power to you for your > enthusiasm, but bashing other operating systems with uninformed > opinions just makes you look dumb. [snip] > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list Why do you subscribe to -chat if some innocent (but indeed neither original nor entertaining, I'll give you that) chatter makes you cut people's heads off? Just a thought... Alphons -- Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food. -- Anthony Bourdain - "Kitchen Confidential" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 17:51:47 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBAE1065672 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:51:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slackwarewolf@comcast.net) Received: from QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E548FC1D for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:51:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from OMTA16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.72]) by QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GHEf1d0041ZMdJ4A4Hee2o; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:38:38 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.101] ([76.112.93.25]) by OMTA16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id GHew1d00G0Yq9Sc8cHf4uj; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:39:11 +0000 From: Allen To: freebsd-chat In-Reply-To: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:34:56 -0500 Message-Id: <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:51:47 -0000 On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 04:44 -0800, Randi Harper wrote: > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman > wrote: > > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually know > > how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only the first > > on is a new observation likely): > > > > * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program was > > counterfeit > > * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often > > * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save > > documents > > > Unproductive. Seriously? You want to talk about how Microsoft sucks? > Nothing you've said is original or even entertaining. > > 1.) What the hell? Are you smoking something? I don't even know how to > respond to that other than: clearly you think FreeBSD has no bugs. > Awesome. Most people who helped invent Unix / Linux / BSD / TCP/IP, smoked something. Berkeley is only known for two products ;) > 2.) Yeah. Because I can totally run KDE 4 on my AMD K6-2. mysql with > sizable databases runs like a fiend on 256MB of RAM. With more complex > software comes the need for better hardware. Next you're going to say > that the gaming industry is a conspiracy. We should have just stuck > with DOOM because everything else requires a better video card. The original DooM did require hardware upgrades. And yes, we should have stuck there. I just got done playing DooM2 and it's still a better game than most out there. I'm picky, but if it's not Unreal Tournament, DooM, Quake, or Wolfenstein, I probably don't play it. Super Tux is the only real exception. > 3.) Hint: It's the save option in the file menu. In vi, it's :w. Which > of these is less intuitive? Gvim has that. > > Did you just discover UNIX or something? Power to you for your > enthusiasm, but bashing other operating systems with uninformed > opinions just makes you look dumb. I'll save his joke: The day Microsoft stops making products that suck is the day they start making Vacuums ;) > Still laughing about #1. > > -- randi > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 19:43:11 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17755106566B for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:43:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f176.google.com (mail-qy0-f176.google.com [209.85.221.176]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2948FC15 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:43:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk6 with SMTP id 6so980377qyk.3 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:43:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Pvmq2xq+1yVCIFDAPNnbJP2mJjY5wFmq05YppxnS2TY=; b=QV60bIh4LBzN7gVi4FYheUydPokvAcn2VEO39Kqp9lQfF3YyESJ6F8YK23L/jxkO6h UmH6TnFxBBO0PTwBk0eyoj6qkPZHPLKfEgm1xE3O8JbpxvJdr59fkolBrc8JybQfgM61 TKjy9vHsI80/qnjcErbcO4PxWU4AaTYmiC/y8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=J7OPZYAzP3wymvA5+dxs989TFEoEHyDTIhD6g/zfSIPNJz+vEyWtM5nxhoeHA6K40E 1FR54vcx3uB2QJAVUrmobl0pZFR86aTk1bG4BE39/ou1knOK4/fr3BoBdTpQ5b5wAS9i 0tfAXxpwQc0QNssJWH56omQc+Lx3voxZMvO+w= Received: by 10.224.88.153 with SMTP id a25mr1838169qam.30.1260646989970; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from aryeh-desktop.istudentunion.com (ool-44c0cd7a.dyn.optonline.net [68.192.205.122]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 21sm2634823qyk.8.2009.12.12.11.43.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:43:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4B23F24C.5040508@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:43:08 -0500 From: "Aryeh M. Friedman" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (X11/20091103) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randi Harper References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:43:11 -0000 Randi Harper wrote: > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman > wrote: > >> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually know >> how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only the first >> on is a new observation likely): >> >> * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program was >> counterfeit >> * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often >> * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save >> documents >> > > > Unproductive. Seriously? You want to talk about how Microsoft sucks? > Nothing you've said is original or even entertaining. > > 1.) What the hell? Are you smoking something? I don't even know how to > respond to that other than: clearly you think FreeBSD has no bugs. > Awesome. > Of course FreeBSD has bugs (for example my named seems to die on my desktop [not the servers at work] at random times if there is high network load when a none cached lookup is made). The specific type of thing I was referring to some of the bugs you find in MS products are so strange that the only possible explanation is they are on purpose. Case in point IE8 has a compatibility mode (which makes some sense I guess) but instead of defaulting to IE7 settings it defaults to IE5 settings (I don't see how this could happen even if you had an accidental bug). > 2.) Yeah. Because I can totally run KDE 4 on my AMD K6-2. mysql with > sizable databases runs like a fiend on 256MB of RAM. With more complex > software comes the need for better hardware. Next you're going to say > that the gaming industry is a conspiracy. We should have just stuck > with DOOM because everything else requires a better video card. > I was about to say they are but decided not to feed into your argument. Gaming at least has an excuse which is that realism (both in presentation and computer opponent reactions) is very math intensive and in the case of the opponent often pushes the limits of what we know about AI. > 3.) Hint: It's the save option in the file menu. In vi, it's :w. Which > of these is less intuitive? > Even better how about aeipass in devel/aegis. > Did you just discover UNIX or something? Power to you for your > enthusiasm, but bashing other operating systems with uninformed > opinions just makes you look dumb. > No the post came from an extremely frustrating day of developing workarounds for various MS bugs in my company's products (we are an 100% FreeBSD shop but since part of our product is web based it has to be tested on all platforms). As to UNIX use vs. something else I have used server/mini/etc. based UNIX since 1985 on an almost daily basis and as my primary desktop OS since the mid 90's (FreeBSD 2.0.1 was when I switched). If anything your response shows a closed mind as to what makes people say different things. > Still laughing about #1. > > -- randi > > From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 19:47:52 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C431B106566B for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:47:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kayve@sfsu.edu) Received: from iron3.sfsu.edu (iron3.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.128]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E118FC0C for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:47:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Inbound-SFSU: False X-onepass: IPPSC X-From-SFSU: True X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEADN/I0uC1B9B/2dsb2JhbADGSQEJBYReiEiCSIFjBIQTgVCEZQ Received: from edg01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.31.65]) by iron3.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 12 Dec 2009 11:47:52 -0800 Received: from EHB02.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.84) by EDG01.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.65) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:47:51 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu (130.212.10.100) by ehb.ad.sfsu.edu (130.212.31.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.176.0; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:47:51 -0800 Received: from libra.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.238]) by mail05a.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0.4HF59) with ESMTP id 2009121211474961-310 ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:47:49 -0800 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:47:49 -0800 From: KAYVEN RIESE To: Allen In-Reply-To: <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> Message-ID: References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL05a/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4HF59 | August 11, 2009) at 12/12/2009 11:47:49, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0.4|March 23, 2009) at 12/12/2009 11:47:51, Serialize complete at 12/12/2009 11:47:51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-chat Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:47:52 -0000 On Sat, 12 Dec 2009, Allen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 04:44 -0800, Randi Harper wrote: >> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman >> wrote: >> >> 1.) What the hell? Are you smoking something? I don't even know how to >> respond to that other than: clearly you think FreeBSD has no bugs. >> Awesome. > > Most people who helped invent Unix / Linux / BSD / TCP/IP, smoked > something. Berkeley is only known for two products ;) THC stimulates the important mental faculty of forgetting the stupid stuff. That's why these apps rock. >> -- randi > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > *----------------------------------------------------------* Kayven Riese, BSCS, MS (Physiology and Biophysics) (415) 902 5513 cellular http://kayve.net Webmaster http://ChessYoga.org *----------------------------------------------------------* From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 19:57:31 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D55106566C for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:57:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f226.google.com (mail-ew0-f226.google.com [209.85.219.226]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE53F8FC17 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:57:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy26 with SMTP id 26so2285163ewy.3 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:57:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Wxm1dv17p91Nwpkk18FDmfdpUOOIgdkfnQvOSCrwZ5c=; b=X9xFGwn6Y9+3AIC9/sFm2kvrak+a55jMF647VOppA0VqxI8SDhzWzke/FO9qsEpMfe ROsbRGqFZm4RisZqHdBOEkSXHxzb4SlNm6GKFyO1e5I5F1dXGuxDwJajpD1fsFrdmjPR UV0MSIDjECv9KSzHDj3fVOw3OaZrEXbCwFwyw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=LzZBoXuTid33pZe0JTEIATNlXSqe0QKqN1sE+IjL9nE454dn520L/NZxmydiTxTqmp VVMYe34BcuyZGWdXY0OlDAGEXvfQJGYePKBhj+3Zjq/+KN9qPKLYAMtv+Wgg04HRM+cX F/Irc7gDgAZl5VVUuvbNaw+Qut8hb+cRtTJC8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.88.71 with SMTP id z49mr1221793wee.90.1260647847934; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 11:57:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <1260639296.11462.4.camel@debianbox.medion.org.medion.org> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 14:57:27 -0500 Message-ID: From: Aryeh Friedman To: Allen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-chat Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:57:31 -0000 > > Most people who helped invent Unix / Linux / BSD / TCP/IP, smoked > something. Berkeley is only known for two products ;) Having been born in San Francisco and growing up in Berkeley I must agree. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 22:23:54 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F77D106566B for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:23:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpetsmoker-dated-1261346777.68de8c@rwxrwxrwx.net) Received: from mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (mail.rwxrwxrwx.net [83.161.253.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF4F8FC0A for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:23:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 003C7216DCA; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:06:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.rwxrwxrwx.net (tmda-sendmail, from uid 1001); Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:06:17 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:06:17 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20091212220617.GA66562@rwxrwxrwx.net> References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.1.12 (Macallan) From: Martin Tournoij Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:23:54 -0000 On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 06:42:55AM -0500, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually > know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only > the first on is a new observation likely): > > * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program > was counterfeit > * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often > * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save > documents You are so right. The important matter here however is whether is is the CIA or Illuminati. -- Martin Tournoij carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net | (+031) 621 991 576 http://www.carpetsmoker.net | http://www.daemonforums.org QOTD: "Hello," he lied. -- Don Carpenter, quoting a Hollywood agent From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 22:52:29 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5600106566C for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:52:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from ostracod.unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f08:110::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410E48FC0A for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:52:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vhoffman-macbook.local ([10.0.0.173]) (authenticated bits=0) by ostracod.unsane.co.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nBCMrTRs011060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:53:29 GMT (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4B241EAC.7010304@unsane.co.uk> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:52:28 +0000 From: Vincent Hoffman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <4B2381BF.3000209@gmail.com> <20091212220617.GA66562@rwxrwxrwx.net> In-Reply-To: <20091212220617.GA66562@rwxrwxrwx.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:52:29 -0000 Martin Tournoij wrote: > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 06:42:55AM -0500, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote: > >> Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. The actually >> know how to make good stuff but don't for the following reasons (only >> the first on is a new observation likely): >> >> * If they didn't have any bugs then people would think the program >> was counterfeit >> * Force people to upgrade hardware and software more often >> * Forcing a person to be certified expert to just know how to save >> documents >> > > You are so right. > The important matter here however is whether is is the CIA or Illuminati. > > I've alway wondered why people think it has to be a conspiracy OR a cock-up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor#Cock-up_theory) when its so much more likely to be both. From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Dec 12 23:12:10 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9DA106566B for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:12:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sektie@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pw0-f44.google.com (mail-pw0-f44.google.com [209.85.160.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D19AA8FC0A for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:12:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pwi15 with SMTP id 15so1404114pwi.3 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:12:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=f3ri0lBVdJK2yb+xdhLY7B9iHOeVI1yLfRChTPeCZ64=; b=KKAGSx/sBw136nn0QxUSLbJk6qjHhtQ2x33TY/7Lr9Mr6RryaHuAE62aWWvEs8Fqim ZK6ojvU8nessVY84jWw/k6DgUoFFLqr/ybq+qmjWp4VKwgCdPosbov7nqz5PLLw6iLM1 FoXeUL93J6UOMT9ugavtkCb1TLvz7GExMSlwk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Enk0O198n75zn58KH8WrSlcn8bR6zys8E73pnezMdo949+ZujyCxfGy9mL/5zKpFr4 qGAmv9if0g5CL0Bcz/8meQBogFmPh3D7romzdyXZcd3JpiiHBVTLYyOP4a2iW/zhb4q7 upFPznoU7YsDXIOTkRR/KsXTfQRu7wZrS3/zw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: sektie@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.26.32 with SMTP id d32mr1882928wfj.297.1260659529430; Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:12:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <200912121330.nBCDUvnQ003698@satellite.xs4all.nl> References: <200912121330.nBCDUvnQ003698@satellite.xs4all.nl> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:12:09 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 92aeaf3e54659eed Message-ID: From: Randi Harper To: "A.J. Fonz van Werven" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "Aryeh M. Friedman" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A theory on why microsoft makes such crappy stuff after all these years X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:12:10 -0000 On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:30 AM, A.J. "Fonz" van Werven wrote: > Randi Harper wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 3:42 AM, Aryeh M. Friedman >> wrote: >> > Microsoft making crappy products is really a conspiracy. > > =A0[snip very old joke] > >> Unproductive. Seriously? You want to talk about how Microsoft sucks? >> Nothing you've said is original or even entertaining. >> >> 1.) What the hell? Are you smoking something? > =A0[snip] >> Did you just discover UNIX or something? Power to you for your >> enthusiasm, but bashing other operating systems with uninformed >> opinions just makes you look dumb. > =A0[snip] >> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list > > Why do you subscribe to -chat if some innocent (but indeed neither > original nor entertaining, I'll give you that) chatter makes you cut > people's heads off? Just a thought... > > Alphons > Because after a long day after vacation of responding to sysinstall/DD related emails, it felt good to vent on a troll? :) -- randi