From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 7 00:01:20 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C30106564A for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:01:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kraduk@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f212.google.com (mail-ew0-f212.google.com [209.85.219.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823198FC17 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:01:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kraduk@googlemail.com) Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so3122202ewy.43 for ; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:01:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:references:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-mailer:x-mimeole:in-reply-to:thread-index; bh=TJdnLXX7is9cT4sPS1A0H/QD1draNemTiidmOvuqdQg=; b=IKxiMuL0UTsTuZutdugKrfez/OqvWUv73oWxjHMRkZQ/Y2SRU/sqi3JscikTqraqL7 a7EbdmMUIpnYFlrqt1tgpl5aN30VhiUQVsBfmnyiLNJr2Qz3FvE82HkDktxn0289Hd56 ej+RSHtXcbgcLFHa6WRIwTCm7vkpo1/HhLlTc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:references:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:x-mimeole :in-reply-to:thread-index; b=rFz8oJESN9bkilkPf/cu6y+vffGtsgTFcH/jJ6Mk9fHow5RuIdBCQprrfadR6S0wqw rkuEaDOEjdUVacLHQBQpmuK3z79yc7O9A/nuyIZQxEW0Jgqj8vZkkndQuNW451LAwSPa 8WrNtISVCmeaoKBe8ZypXBW+gpUhxkcmrZ17U= Received: by 10.210.27.20 with SMTP id a20mr3315995eba.42.1244332878527; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LTPCSCOTT (lambo.snaffler.net [80.45.84.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm3170254ewy.81.2009.06.06.17.01.17 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:01:18 -0700 (PDT) From: krad To: "'Freddie Cash'" , References: <20090530175239.GA25604@logik.internal.network><20090530144354.2255f722@bhuda.mired.org><20090530191840.GA68514@logik.internal.network><20090530162744.5d77e9d1@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 01:01:17 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acnm48ExtrOmP1YSR8eAA/fM8Dus+QAHwN8g X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 01:58:09 +0000 Cc: Subject: RE: Request for opinions - gvinum or ccd? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:01:20 -0000 >We remade the pool using 3x 8-drive raidz2 vdevs, and performance has >been great (400 MBytes/s write, almost 3 GBytes/s sequential read, 800 >MBytes/s random read). Yep that corresponds with what we saw, although we were getting a little higher write rates with our 46 drive configuration From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 7 05:57:30 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F1811065670; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 05:57:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaiwang27@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f212.google.com (mail-ew0-f212.google.com [209.85.219.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3AC8FC18; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 05:57:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaiwang27@gmail.com) Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so3236937ewy.43 for ; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:received :x-authentication-warning:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=kSS1SWucJ/sdxDPBjFdq+v/fc/Y8srbUmesx+sqPEpY=; b=l/CgXTNUA+BY839zKpn15OMG1IFRYyHvrr0OBBSt+n/S1mVD6qteMOh1uXY6WdTdLf HRSD2ls5tIK8Twi/opvKFI6vs6KV3jslW7X6IZhxJWSE3k0pcJOTy+26ezLXuIv6QaYB vsiwZ1WwY6qci02jCXIwrhQ0CSWHGPQm+PSK0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=x-authentication-warning:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; b=Qcb0nigzuHT5dZQj9HLbbW4eeqLbbw7HIIur8dX+1eIVmhXgCv2qv7UEtW6c/Yzdhn 8BMd92PIqPlAnFC2RGMldT7u5ugVNL1mDN7LGfxQwi9Mqjwh8qyD/QVLhkipr+eL0pZ2 hLtq6mRunjubJqbk7T4AzWZJfqvXNrlmVWB4k= Received: by 10.216.29.201 with SMTP id i51mr1794844wea.214.1244352394206; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([212.209.91.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p10sm2998439gvf.19.2009.06.06.22.26.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost.my.domain) by localhost with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1MDAtI-0000bL-2E; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:25:56 +0200 Received: (from kaiw@localhost) by localhost.my.domain (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n575Ptfq002314; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 07:25:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from kaiwang27@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.my.domain: kaiw set sender to kaiwang27@gmail.com using -f Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 07:25:55 +0200 From: Kai Wang To: Tim Kientzle Message-ID: <20090607052555.GA2154@viskning> References: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> <31BD4D08-6558-46FF-9B93-CF8249AAC461@cederstrand.dk> <4A27F105.4040109@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4A27F105.4040109@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: Ed Schouten , hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Erik Cederstrand Subject: Re: Clang: now available from a SVN server near you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:57:31 -0000 On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 09:06:29AM -0700, Tim Kientzle wrote: > Erik Cederstrand wrote: > > > > LLVM provides a linker (http://llvm.org/cmds/llvm-ld.html) but "it > > doesn't interact correctly with conventional nm/ar/etc" > > (http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-dev/2009-June/005296.html). > > In what way does it not interact correctly? llvm-ar manual page: http://llvm.org/cmds/llvm-ar.html I think the major difference is that llvm-ar is aimed for bitcode (.bc) files, same as other llvm-xxx tools. (for example, llvm-ld) Other that that, llvm-ar uses a different symbol table, a different compression solution. (llvm-ar compresses each member separately, not the entire archive, this is probably better wrt random access of members?). llvm-ar also has a handy -R option which we should probably add to our ar(1). And from what I read in the wiki, it looks like llvm-ld can be used as long as --emit-llvm is specified when compiling? -Kai From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 7 07:01:42 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB6C106564A for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 07:01:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA128FC14 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 07:01:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n5771ZMV097837; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:01:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n5771YDo097834; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:01:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:01:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Freddie Cash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090530175239.GA25604@logik.internal.network> <20090530144354.2255f722@bhuda.mired.org> <20090530191840.GA68514@logik.internal.network> <20090530162744.5d77e9d1@bhuda.mired.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Request for opinions - gvinum or ccd? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:01:42 -0000 >> (very roughly, in the non-sequential access case) expected to deliver >> performance of four drives in a RAID0 array? > > According to all the Sun documentation, the I/O throughput of a raidz > configuration is equal to that of a single drive. exactly what i say. it's like RAID3. Not RAID5 which have close to n times single drive throughput on read and rougly n/4 on writes. > We remade the pool using 3x 8-drive raidz2 vdevs, and performance has > been great (400 MBytes/s write, almost 3 GBytes/s sequential read, 800 why write performance is so slow? in Sun theory it should have the same speed as reads. I would say that it should be even better a bit - filesystem get data first in cache and can plan ahead. > MBytes/s random read). random read on how big chunks? Are you sure you get 3GB/s on read? it would mean each drive must be able to do 140MB/s What disks do you use? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 7 13:45:47 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09E710656E9 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:45:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hdante@gmail.com) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA92D8FC24 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hdante@gmail.com) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so1344993qwe.7 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:45:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=jwr7oX3tRefH/lKvR72tBb1G02fpln+0eOHJLuNLAIo=; b=yE7llPYwBH+cuBWfUhqX9MWZyfbINqexkKUeyB0Nn5CsYhHaQ1Mx4I1vPQhU42tm2t /YqwX8sKjZ2QL1AzcJGzSgENe6AxNI/nOSOthLGnWF2rGjMe+rDVEtH9vbjCnCMYEQzz LfA1QdCqYkFTHYyjL2jwyLuI3HU4KNl7eXFws= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=oj/zZEKQQ2C87+qY3lALosEuq28lnxtYm4SSfqPCBj9/YUSAkwbYfjV+X1QbuJBzWx 9k5yfV3YgdaUR5V3dkUBIqdBn18vYjq72+5Hn4Qm8vlm1G+i5B5Z8ZtbliO24efcyQD4 baaCNNdjqN4AOf9puLs4zE3yVcebEd63T/BtQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.85.6 with SMTP id m6mr3158870vcl.69.1244380843429; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 06:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:20:43 -0300 Message-ID: From: Henrique Almeida To: hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 14:47:36 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: New "libc" project libposix X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:46:08 -0000 Hello, I've created a new project to build a compliant POSIX 2008 library. The goals of the project are to build a cross platform, easy to use library that will unify the POSIX implementation on all systems. Everybody is welcome, specially "libc" developers. ;-) http://libposix.sourceforge.net/ -- Henrique Dante de Almeida hdante@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 8 00:49:52 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC59106566B for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:49:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@m.gmane.org) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744AC8FC08 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:49:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers@m.gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1MDT3e-0003vZ-Df for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:49:50 +0000 Received: from 93-138-27-194.adsl.net.t-com.hr ([93.138.27.194]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:49:50 +0000 Received: from ivoras by 93-138-27-194.adsl.net.t-com.hr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:49:50 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Ivan Voras Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 02:49:11 +0200 Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigAB08262060822709211536CC" X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 93-138-27-194.adsl.net.t-com.hr User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Sender: news Subject: Re: New "libc" project libposix X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:49:53 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigAB08262060822709211536CC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Henrique Almeida wrote: > Hello, >=20 > I've created a new project to build a compliant POSIX 2008 library. Th= e > goals of the project are to build a cross platform, easy to use library= that > will unify the POSIX implementation on all systems. >=20 > Everybody is welcome, specially "libc" developers. ;-) >=20 > http://libposix.sourceforge.net/ I think that a lot of compliance depends on the kernel - you can't solve those in libc. Another thing: are you starting from scratch or using an existing libc? I imagine that using e.g. FreeBSD's libc and fixing compatiblity issues will make your whole project complete significantly faster. --------------enigAB08262060822709211536CC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkosYAcACgkQldnAQVacBciC0gCg8KlCa9+2xIxAJRn5cNQemHeX jwYAoOuKof68YGw62IaRde0nOKRbKfRh =J5JM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigAB08262060822709211536CC-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 8 15:33:49 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72B3106566C for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893258FC1A for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (66.111.2.69.static.nyinternet.net [66.111.2.69]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E9AE46B4C; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:33:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhbbsd.hudson-trading.com (unknown [209.249.190.8]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 596AF8A06B; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:33:48 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:31:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.7 References: <4A2792B7.5010006@peterhost.ru> <200906050938.25706.jhb@freebsd.org> <4A293302.5040306@peterhost.ru> In-Reply-To: <4A293302.5040306@peterhost.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200906081031.32271.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:33:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.1 at bigwig.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.2 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on bigwig.baldwin.cx Cc: Menshikov Konstantin Subject: Re: Inline function (difficult debug) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:33:50 -0000 On Friday 05 June 2009 11:00:18 am Menshikov Konstantin wrote: > Frame 11 > (kgdb) f 11 > #11 0xffffffff804b3db8 in witness_checkorder (lock=0xffffffff809fb8b0, > flags=9, > file=0xffffffff807aeb30 "/usr/src/sys/dev/syscons/syscons.c", > line=2519) at /usr/src/sys/kern/subr_witness.c:1126 > 1126 kdb_enter_why(KDB_WHY_WITNESS, __func__); > (kgdb) p *lock > $6 = {lo_name = 0xffffffff807aebc5 "scrlock", lo_type = > 0xffffffff807aebc5 "scrlock", lo_flags = 8585216, > lo_witness_data = {lod_list = {stqe_next = 0xffffffff80a25320}, > lod_witness = 0xffffffff80a25320}} > (kgdb) p *lock1 > $7 = {li_lock = 0xffffffff80a12db8, li_file = 0xffffffff807c22f5 > "/usr/src/sys/kern/kern_sig.c", li_line = 2291, > li_flags = 65536} Ok, can you 'p *lock1->li_lock'? -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 8 18:07:13 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3FC106566C; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:07:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B3F8FC15; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 18:07:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n58I5ZK4032417; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:05:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20090608.120552.756910862.imp@bsdimp.com> To: ed@80386.nl From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> References: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Clang: now available from a SVN server near you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:07:13 -0000 In message: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> Ed Schouten writes: : Good news everyone! ... : So far we've only done testing on amd64 and i386. A lot of ports are : probably still broken. Caveat emptor. Beware of dog. Slippery when wet. "objects in mirror may be larger than they appear" Do you have size or run-time performance comparisons yet? Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 8 19:11:18 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD05106566C for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:11:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656858FC17 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:11:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so1917692ywe.13 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:11:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=iE5JIF3920kUkm3R5+RJaSm+23sJrO9GvPNUvz0yCnQ=; b=ENGkS0Y9zItnTXiuK6qtNKf98OhWQJfq9cwnh5hO+AFjIMtX5aBqGWCVKduktdM4e+ Bb3aVZC8UPIL2xFkqZyTh/so8RkrjXJEQbuMnWVjVVC5DQQsD8CprFNp2fpBipyIkmfm QWHKz61RSwfUdrcPa7It+CwK7O2ccF5sBNqy0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=r7kZ0x0TMukJqCeHmvR8jc+S9KlqdGFp/CkWK03bzyxkCiX1uWtLUW1Mn9NDPxsqGq +l5VQNy1NbuV9kg3uK0Xj+RBCybOnBE56LVGSFkviPDmeP/i/q4kfJdronA0y0Rv0IUf akXl+0FrwdDY+XMpVg9NNjLJey6nzhEI40yhk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.38.19 with SMTP id q19mr13238060ybj.76.1244488277555; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:11:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20090530175239.GA25604@logik.internal.network> <20090530144354.2255f722@bhuda.mired.org> <20090530191840.GA68514@logik.internal.network> <20090530162744.5d77e9d1@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:11:17 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Request for opinions - gvinum or ccd? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:11:19 -0000 On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:01 AM, Wojciech Puchar< wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote: >>> (very roughly, in the non-sequential access case) expected to deliver >>> performance of four drives in a RAID0 array? >> >> According to all the Sun documentation, the I/O throughput of a raidz >> configuration is equal to that of a single drive. > > exactly what i say. it's like RAID3. Not RAID5 which have close to n times > single drive throughput on read and rougly n/4 on writes. > >> We remade the pool using 3x 8-drive raidz2 vdevs, and performance has >> been great (400 MBytes/s write, almost 3 GBytes/s sequential read, 800 > > why write performance is so slow? in Sun theory it should have the same > speed as reads. I would say that it should be even better a bit - filesystem > get data first in cache and can plan ahead. > >> MBytes/s random read). > > random read on how big chunks? > > Are you sure you get 3GB/s on read? it would mean each drive must be able to > do 140MB/s > > What disks do you use? 12x 500 GB Seagate EL2 SATA drives, part of their enterprise near-line storage line. 12x 500 GB WD SATA drives, generic off-the-shelf drives I re-ran the iozone tests, letting them run to completion, and here are the results: The iozone command: iozone -M -e -+u -T -t -r 128k -s 40960 -i 0 -i 1 -i 2 -i 8 -+p 70 -C I ran the command using 32, 64, 128, and 256 for Write speeds range from 236 MBytes/sec to 582 MBytes/sec for sequential; and from 242 MBytes/sec to 550 MBytes/sec for random. Read speeds range from 3.3 GBytes/sec to 5.5 GBytes/sec for sequential; and from 1.8 GBytes/sec to 5.5 GBytes/sec for random. All the gory details are below. 32-threads: Children see ... 32 initial writers = 582468.13 KB/sec 32-threads: Parent sees ... 32 initial writers = 108808.46 KB/sec 64-threads: Children see ... 64 initial writers = 236144.47 KB/sec 64-threads: Parent sees ... 64 initial writers = 86942.94 KB/sec 128-threads: Children see ... 128 initial writers = 284706.68 KB/sec 128-threads: Parent sees ... 128 initial writers = 10850.40 KB/sec 256-threads: Children see ... 256 initial writers = 258260.59 KB/sec 256-threads: Parent sees ... 256 initial writers = 9882.16 KB/sec 32-threads: Children see ... 32 rewriters = 545347.52 KB/sec 32-threads: Parent sees ... 32 rewriters = 339308.08 KB/sec 64-threads: Children see ... 64 rewriters = 419838.51 KB/sec 64-threads: Parent sees ... 64 rewriters = 335620.45 KB/sec 128-threads: Children see ... 128 rewriters = 350668.51 KB/sec 128-threads: Parent sees ... 128 rewriters = 319452.97 KB/sec 256-threads: Children see ... 256 rewriters = 317751.52 KB/sec 256-threads: Parent sees ... 256 rewriters = 295579.66 KB/sec 32-threads: Children see ... 32 random writers = 379256.37 KB/sec 32-threads: Parent sees ... 32 random writers = 95298.44 KB/sec 64-threads: Children see ... 64 random writers = 551767.68 KB/sec 64-threads: Parent sees ... 64 random writers = 113397.95 KB/sec 128-threads: Children see ... 128 random writers = 241980.60 KB/sec 128-threads: Parent sees ... 128 random writers = 74584.01 KB/sec 256-threads: Children see ... 256 random writers = 398427.84 KB/sec 256-threads: Parent sees ... 256 random writers = 20219.56 KB/sec 32-threads: Children see ... 32 readers = 5023742.86 KB/sec 32-threads: Parent sees ... 32 readers = 4661309.72 KB/sec 64-threads: Children see ... 64 readers = 5516460.71 KB/sec 64-threads: Parent sees ... 64 readers = 3949337.61 KB/sec 128-threads: Children see ... 128 readers = 4748635.74 KB/sec 128-threads: Parent sees ... 128 readers = 3208982.03 KB/sec 256-threads: Children see ... 256 readers = 4358453.38 KB/sec 256-threads: Parent sees ... 256 readers = 2741593.08 KB/sec 32-threads: Children see ... 32 re-readers = 5502926.62 KB/sec 32-threads: Parent sees ... 32 re-readers = 4650327.75 KB/sec 64-threads: Children see ... 64 re-readers = 5509400.02 KB/sec 64-threads: Parent sees ... 64 re-readers = 4526444.40 KB/sec 128-threads: Children see ... 128 re-readers = 4072363.55 KB/sec 128-threads: Parent sees ... 128 re-readers = 2840317.47 KB/sec 256-threads: Children see ... 256 re-readers = 3329375.95 KB/sec 256-threads: Parent sees ... 256 re-readers = 2183894.33 KB/sec 32-threads: Children see ... 32 random readers = 5555090.45 KB/sec 32-threads: Parent sees ... 32 random readers = 4602383.62 KB/sec 64-threads: Children see ... 64 random readers = 4402270.77 KB/sec 64-threads: Parent sees ... 64 random readers = 2059081.52 KB/sec 128-threads: Children see ... 128 random readers = 3070466.93 KB/sec 128-threads: Parent sees ... 128 random readers = 525076.11 KB/sec 256-threads: Children see ... 256 random readers = 1888676.12 KB/sec 256-threads: Parent sees ... 256 random readers = 293304.53 KB/sec 32-threads: Children see ... 32 mixed workload = 3130000.18 KB/sec 32-threads: Parent sees ... 32 mixed workload = 123281.78 KB/sec 64-threads: Children see ... 64 mixed workload = 1587053.33 KB/sec 64-threads: Parent sees ... 64 mixed workload = 294586.82 KB/sec 128-threads: Children see ... 128 mixed workload = 807349.95 KB/sec 128-threads: Parent sees ... 128 mixed workload = 98998.77 KB/sec 256-threads: Children see ... 256 mixed workload = 393469.55 KB/sec 256-threads: Parent sees ... 256 mixed workload = 112394.90 KB/sec -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 8 21:11:23 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D29106566C; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:11:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pawel.worach@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f217.google.com (mail-bw0-f217.google.com [209.85.218.217]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0BA58FC0C; Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:11:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pawel.worach@gmail.com) Received: by bwz17 with SMTP id 17so615876bwz.43 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:11:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=AN5XYWcEmOhrBFFjBdEuAlW5TFESq+2I/nVsDoxLjn0=; b=JETUq39Yu3Vb47OFSUdwhycmWDILlPNtys3QG6nxq+H6TaKXEtIhBLlO8/ThdlzWQq CMT/FBuh0UwJIOTxylgptaass4aVhku0fq2ej6tR40O++Q2A6LNvy5ql0Cpe3CZIdtc4 tUBxRrDrNv+QoqlFrFV5f2Z6tY2ltL/6YEpsU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=I4HbLCZQUBbIMxl2t+xr6WDXsDGRoBmdJ3vfsfsxbYK68+IPQA4fOlqarol23TQeea r81l0e9CgoAR0cYMsu6hqDn0Hln2W8k2Go46KNWUoX6blJT6LCd9MzhCu8iCEpp6/F4u HsQrV08sGOsv9NhMGmphnlyJei9Q8u7BjTvOk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.102.14 with SMTP id e14mr7056454bko.183.1244494004169; Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:46:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090608.120552.756910862.imp@bsdimp.com> References: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> <20090608.120552.756910862.imp@bsdimp.com> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:46:44 +0200 Message-ID: From: Pawel Worach To: "M. Warner Losh" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ed@80386.nl, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Clang: now available from a SVN server near you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:11:24 -0000 On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 20:05, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Ed Schouten writes: > : Good news everyone! > ... > : So far we've only done testing on amd64 and i386. A lot of ports are > : probably still broken. Caveat emptor. Beware of dog. Slippery when wet. > > "objects in mirror may be larger than they appear" > > Do you have size or run-time performance comparisons yet? > Here is a semi-recent build-time benchmark for a stipped down amd64 kernel clang: 182.04 real 166.68 user 13.29 sys gcc: 217.79 real 211.00 user 13.22 sys libmicro runtime syscall benchmark results from April: http://www.vlakno.cz/~pwo/lm/2009-04-11/lm.html So runtime performance is on par with gcc, code size is a bit bigger so there is still room for optimization in LLVM. --=20 Pawel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 10:10:19 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA4F106566B; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:10:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2EA8FC1D; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:10:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59A9vWn005684; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:09:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n59A9twM005681; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:09:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:09:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Pawel Worach In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> <20090608.120552.756910862.imp@bsdimp.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: ed@80386.nl, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Clang: now available from a SVN server near you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:10:19 -0000 > > So runtime performance is on par with gcc, code size is a bit bigger bigger code=lower performance except benchmarks :) smaller code fits better in cache. > so there is still room for optimization in LLVM. > and for sure there will be some. Good that FreeBSD will have non-GNU compiler soon :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 10:17:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D009106566C; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ed@hoeg.nl) Received: from palm.hoeg.nl (mx0.hoeg.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:613:100::211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A47B8FC18; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ed@hoeg.nl) Received: by palm.hoeg.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2EDAC1CD94; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:17:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:17:45 +0200 From: Ed Schouten To: Pawel Worach Message-ID: <20090609101745.GE48776@hoeg.nl> References: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> <20090608.120552.756910862.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="oCUf59kop2Azht1W" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Clang: now available from a SVN server near you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:17:46 -0000 --oCUf59kop2Azht1W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable * Pawel Worach wrote: > So runtime performance is on par with gcc, code size is a bit bigger > so there is still room for optimization in LLVM. I don't agree on the code size. Code size is comparable. I just did a quick ls through /bin. There also seem to be a lot of cases where Clang generates smaller binaries. Some time ago the binaries were indeed a lot bigger, but that turned out to be a bug in Clang, where a compiler flag had a wrong default value, namely the flag that determined whether zero-initialized data had to go in BSS or not. --=20 Ed Schouten WWW: http://80386.nl/ --oCUf59kop2Azht1W Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkouNsgACgkQ52SDGA2eCwVHnACfaoxEg9nNU0BZjv73sqUq+mfv ICsAn0mcRhQ/YZrevzPRcgtx8pDJyvnK =IZ0p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --oCUf59kop2Azht1W-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 10:10:17 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461731065673; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:10:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFAD48FC1A; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:10:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so2191482ana.13 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:10:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=i4Midmt9YiuD+jKdcw5K9BgqMApIkWVPOETdaKjZ5XU=; b=VlTNRvWbmc09qxZEbh7xigKRsdvhZBOoHAC5CDCd2qlv22sdG1LccLMYOfpVO7V37U o/l6+8F1RN+xHaWh5HpwxOoVEoMzGuD7SdNjxbj0zxaW/GxYYJA1LCqiRypBKDQsh5d/ 38d7GR5Mu+SUrbnlt7sknLGhAnH2T/0vnKGXg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=kMT6itcHjYHks/w68CBMOqtJO6Hajs9OSk7UY5DEfyZKpM8ZvwmizB29Co2UuHIFUW VnLMMA1W3EFymxvHqOUA2v9X2ibt4CyE7YwhLjqCLWoSBr+5vYG6+QnB+VJWKYcyOaWt 3hLhWDHACgDyMiGPN2TY3eZWg7KtDganjx2Oc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.32.6 with SMTP id f6mr1180341anf.143.1244540531362; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 02:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:42:11 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:35:14 +0000 Cc: Subject: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:10:17 -0000 Hello list Let me preface this by saying that I do not have coding knowledge/experience, but I am willing to donate my time to help test things if somebody is already working on this. Hopefully, this will prevent most of the potential "feel free to submit patches" responses :) Is there any work going on to make sysinstall recognize and abe able to create and work with GJOURNAL and ZFS? In the days of 1,5-2,0 terabyte harddrives, UFS2 + SoftUpdates simply doesn't cut it anymore, but since this is the only thing you can do from within sysinstall, it is what the vast majority of people giving FreeBSD a try are going to end up with. If you tell a Windows or a Linux user that having a sudden power loss or having to pull the plug on a locked system can result in an unbootable FreeBSD system, a very large portion of them is going to run away screaming, never giving FreeBSD a second look. And yes, I know that the same things can theoretically render Windows or Linux unbootable, but let's be honest here, it is a LOT more likely to happen to an UFS2 + SoftUpdates system than NTFS or EXT3/EXT4. This calls for more robust default options/settings to be presented by the sysinstall to the new user. GJOURNAL and ZFS present themselves as the most sensible options in this case. Sincerely, - Dan Naumov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 14:36:32 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17950106564A; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:36:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D7A8FC0C; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:36:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59EaOI8006589; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:36:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n59EaNNI006586; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:36:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:36:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dan Naumov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:36:32 -0000 > Is there any work going on to make sysinstall recognize and abe able > to create and work with GJOURNAL and ZFS? In the days of 1,5-2,0 > terabyte harddrives, UFS2 + SoftUpdates simply doesn't cut it anymore, UFS2+SoftUpdates works fine on properly configured UFS2 - and very fast. Why you need sysinstall AT ALL? use any CD/DVD distro like FreeSBIE, or even better - the one that loads itself to RAM and no longer needs HDD, or even FreeBSD already installed on Pendrive. Boot it, then partition/newfs your disk(s) whatever you like, mount target, then use install.sh scripts from FreeBSD install CD to install system this way DESTDIR=/target ./install.sh in every directory then install bootblock and edit fstab, your system will boot. Sysinstall is to help beginners, but do beginners need so complex setups? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 14:57:31 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C4A1065691; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:57:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.242]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420978FC1C; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:57:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so14091ana.13 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:57:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vgpU2kmdcTnsHX4/Fb7BgZL76vWw+E/wokeGW9dD4iw=; b=N3njT2LTJrk8CEJt0TRq7+hLAQVkenP7WRhpFSxIGq7g/eZaqUEzY88vSBMzSraEwg GqGtw5pJgdDZVdSslNRGiz7DjMcDVZpxeZkE6mfrhUBL2ej0dGeLEgAEsYV5jJp+JgPu ARqgSy/DO7HBf1eU7tW0wpOxlj1nrCbG8FKD0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=w8p0Exjh7xE+HynlWHryHLCLrL1GVHcqJmH2bU9L218io40K+7UN6bv4ssin+fBlMa w9xcbW526IvhC/Dq8vUDxZ6DQ1yDENcm3EO6Sj9j5IS/314YzB2M6yMTP/dqPnuWC0f9 yp8AU+mS8o/D0i4Fb+FAKVF5HQXkfZ6ySjRC0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.38.5 with SMTP id l5mr73885anl.119.1244559450552; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:57:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:57:30 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:23:03 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:57:32 -0000 > UFS2+SoftUpdates works fine on properly configured UFS2 - and very fast. Yes, UFS2+SoftUpdates is very fast, however, in the case of a power loss or having to pull the plug on a locked up system, it has a noticeably higher chance of leaving you with an unbootable system than if you were using Linux with ext3/ext4 or Windows with NTFS. > Why you need sysinstall AT ALL? I am well capable of doing a textmode installation using console commands only, so _I_ don't. However, sysinstall is what the majority of new users are presented with when giving FreeBSD a try. A new user who loses data (let alone has his system become unbootable) on an unclean shutdown is a very unhappy user. A very unhappy user is a user likely to go back to what he was using before trying FreeBSD. Happy users means more users, more users means more developers, more developers means more active development, which is surely not a bad thing. DO NOT underestimate the value of a good installer with good defaults. > > then install bootblock and edit fstab, your system will boot. Having to do manual operating system installations in the year 2009 is a broken installation process. > Sysinstall is to help beginners, but do beginners need so complex setups? A user who wants his data to be well protected and his system to have high resistance to becoming unbootable in the case of a power loss is a user with completely reasonable expectations, not a user with a "complex setup". - Dan Naumov From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 15:50:55 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39609106566B; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:50:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f08:110::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACCA8FC16; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 15:50:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from vhoffman.lon.namesco.net (150.117-84-212.staticip.namesco.net [212.84.117.150]) (authenticated bits=0) by unsane.co.uk (8.14.3/8.14.0) with ESMTP id n59FrWdY043751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:53:33 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:50:52 +0100 From: Vincent Hoffman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-GB; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20081204 Thunderbird/3.0b1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Naumov References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:50:55 -0000 On 9/6/09 15:57, Dan Naumov wrote: >> UFS2+SoftUpdates works fine on properly configured UFS2 - and very fast. >> > Yes, UFS2+SoftUpdates is very fast, however, in the case of a power > loss or having to pull the plug on a locked up system, it has a > noticeably higher chance of leaving you with an unbootable system than > if you were using Linux with ext3/ext4 or Windows with NTFS. > > > Interestingly in my experience its been the opposite, I've lost a few ext3 filesystems though bad power, same for NTFS (NT4, less so with 200x) but as yet never for ufs2 (fsck has always fixed it.) That said, there have been a few projects to update/replace/whatever sysinstall, look at the desktopBSD installer (bsdinstaller) and finstall. I'm not sure what the status of either of these 2 are though. Vince From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:21:44 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85EC31065670; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:21:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from snb@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7216C8FC1B; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:21:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from snb@freebsd.org) Received: from ebi.local (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59HLgu6088110; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:21:43 GMT (envelope-from snb@freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:21:42 +0200 From: Nick Barkas To: Dan Naumov Message-ID: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:21:45 -0000 On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 04:57:30PM +0200, Dan Naumov wrote: > > UFS2+SoftUpdates works fine on properly configured UFS2 - and very fast. > Yes, UFS2+SoftUpdates is very fast, however, in the case of a power > loss or having to pull the plug on a locked up system, it has a > noticeably higher chance of leaving you with an unbootable system than > if you were using Linux with ext3/ext4 or Windows with NTFS. Can you back this up? I cannot recall having ever rendered a FreeBSD system unbootable due to UFS/UFS2 problems after a power failure or crash. I once had a problem with snapshots that made background fsck fail and crash the system, but it was fixable by booting single user and running fsck manually. This was a couple of years ago, and I think the problem has since been fixed. ZFS at least probably is not able to replace UFS2 for everyone, at this time, anyway. Perhaps gjournal can be a replacement for softupdates for many people who do still need UFS2, but I'm not sure. I think in any case, any existing bugs that cause UFS2+softupdates to catastrophically fail in the event of power failures or system crashes need to be fixed. Making it easier for users to install a system with ZFS or gjournal does nothing for those who have existing systems with UFS2+softupdates, and those who cannot use ZFS or gjournal in the near future for whatever reason. That being said, I do agree that being able to support ZFS and gjournal in sysinstall or an alternative installer would be great. Nick From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:26:45 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C89010656E5 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:26:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f212.google.com (mail-ew0-f212.google.com [209.85.219.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1738FC21 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so130183ewy.43 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:26:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dSwVjGM42vmlKYkP/8psqyPH25ZgdUtmlXFbniLA1AE=; b=KQ/aUjRruLTM+T6rZ1d1Z1vKodjj4SAxCEk7Ov+GJ1f5/08iPXmKbZ6FJNTlhqHnMs eInXeeWEvmlBv7Hv1KenppcDzFC3ed8DNWt0ziiovLZMikRdLk1FUbyWQaL0ARVxuKnS HxdolmGi00QiS06/H0ZHwpNB2zJ4rGx0dYBXE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jhGQkEK9seIjFw19W05pSQ0UUJl6KKBcUlV+OibgrOMhzKiPYpxTZ/8lIgJcFKzSc4 dKS8OYNpfU8V0dXOPX99BcvtiSALksUb30rJi960fz3lVYbAFbUyvB/SQR2tF4dNPB1E rLbo5v0VF/DOnoSo7Aw5oVPe1ezlyvZMVKI84= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.37.11 with SMTP id k11mr401709ebk.39.1244566756123; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:59:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> From: Scott Ullrich Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:58:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: Vincent Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Dan Naumov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:26:45 -0000 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Vincent Hoffman wrote: [snip] > > That said, there have been a few projects to update/replace/whatever > sysinstall, look at the desktopBSD installer (bsdinstaller) and > finstall. I'm not sure what the status of either of these 2 are though. I was holding off on announcing this publicly but I guess now is a good time. Currently we are building FreeBSD-CURRENT + BSDInstaller snapshots every 12 hours or so at: http://snapshots.pfsense.org/FreeBSD_8_0/?C=M;O=D More information about BSDInstaller / FreeBSD integration is located here: http://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/BSDInstaller2009 If folks would like to help out with the remaining needed items that would be awesome. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:31:49 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3E1106568D; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:31:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com (ey-out-1920.google.com [74.125.78.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251EB8FC0C; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:31:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 3so17828eyh.34 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+gUn3ZzBVsicQPgoY5bM5HRsTWYdcwbW+ZZbLojhEhk=; b=mXU4BNOh3ftVlgNEPXji2Q11TadNg00Va6M39ImXyXVyLt2o2da0tpIHt3Bgu8L4Qb jLTxwuWknKpx69oeYUmVL3fTTK1FgdwONT6c00k4KzgG8p8WLb1JcDfC2IILcUnlzvgP jfiv96N1zm7tMFB6VtaNjnryRg+h9u41LYMuM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=EyjNLg/VrH5FhI9laaUaBFagQBUU6GCxnEvWhMwanej+VdHCHo9EY6UpR7oy/8rCuG C47gHC8aolMTvjxHQPkT2vrp9jtFyucPS6aLuzcjapZDajhJjZ4RDsx3UG2yB2+RJA61 EYcnwpn4OCTlk4aj6I7kiXjPSSrRzchM11EkI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.39.2 with SMTP id m2mr2908450ebm.8.1244568708211; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> From: Scott Ullrich Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:31:28 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dan Naumov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:31:50 -0000 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Dan Naumov wrote: > Great! I am downloading > http://snapshots.pfsense.org/FreeBSD_8_0/FreeBSD-20090608-1522-8.0-CURRENT.iso.gz > as we speak and will give it a whirl within the next few days. Any > plans to do similar snapshot builds of -STABLE? I had not planned on it but I guess that some bending of my arm might be in order. I'll look into it. We just retired a builder box for pfSense that I might be able to use. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:38:02 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD3910656CA; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:38:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42838FC08; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:38:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59Hbvki007627; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:37:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n59HbvWo007624; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:37:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:37:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Vincent Hoffman In-Reply-To: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> Message-ID: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Dan Naumov Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:38:03 -0000 >> >> > Interestingly in my experience its been the opposite, I've lost a few > ext3 filesystems though bad power, same for NTFS (NT4, less so with > 200x) but as yet never for ufs2 (fsck has always fixed it.) In worse cases it required manual attention :) UFS is used and improved over 20 years, it's SIMPLE and practically bug-free now, except snapshots. I think it could be improved a bit more to support multiterabyte disks better. Like more blocks allowed per cylgroup and few other changes that will result in no more than 1000 cylgroups on that devices. This will improve fsck times a lot. Still it's well usable on 2TB disks. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:44:24 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059EE10656C1; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:44:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148958FC15; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59HiIm8007695; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:44:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n59HiGb2007691; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:44:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:44:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Nick Barkas In-Reply-To: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> Message-ID: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Dan Naumov Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:44:24 -0000 >> noticeably higher chance of leaving you with an unbootable system than >> if you were using Linux with ext3/ext4 or Windows with NTFS. > > Can you back this up? I cannot recall having ever rendered a FreeBSD > system unbootable due to UFS/UFS2 problems after a power failure or I can confirm the opposite. I did really bad things with disk drives, including accidentally disconnecting SATA cable on working system that was doing lots of filesystem writes. NOTHING wrong happened. I always use softupdates, including / partition (which usually is my only partition anyway :) Once i have failed hardware which sometimes was writting rubbish to disk instead of proper data. after discovering this there was a bit mess but ONLY in files and directories i was writing to!!! fsck with manual attention repaired it all without problems. After fixing hardware problems and few files i used it without change. I can't count how many times i ended with completely unreadable ext2, ext3 and reiserfs filesystem, the last being really kind of destruction ;) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:48:58 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A21E10656BC; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:48:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f212.google.com (mail-ew0-f212.google.com [209.85.219.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 741BE8FC15; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:48:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so145434ewy.43 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:48:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BJUl13j0Pktrh4DtCQiKHxzaQ5nve1q9wp1luBvLy6g=; b=q55miOmk5kzIos1QKKCjGAFimeK/n6mBHsVeu8DiJexRwlsdKYHOtoi+KeDjyPz1Ph LcsT0YN/YPlODRPA3gCGnvS1vSu+IePRVDA7dN5wPbCVBVoZs7W2lVNmxPuHk326KPRZ 1KRuZkMqHjgUGH2T2auMYpFqwayUervXkm6tw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=F2h0bDuB1tJMzmrhekZU7LSIUIFuxqg6qDK6KOufdIiJXxh/Iu5+dFHviyA7QJQlBw ieXi16V6RrnwG7frTChBnxhRiXnzezNiaih0GzoQkdnlJQO9vPZgBGy5JdQ+ZZojPuFQ lMbucA9/Hr1wlEp52Mj3fLZ6bZnXCVr6BHhWY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.30.10 with SMTP id d10mr440755ebd.84.1244569736542; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:48:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> From: Scott Ullrich Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:48:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dan Naumov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:48:58 -0000 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Dan Naumov wrote: > What arch are these snapshots, are they amd64 or i386? Speaking of > -STABLE snapshots, since they are a more slowly moving target than > -CURRENT, 1 snapshot every week or so would definately be enough :) These are i386 FreeBSD-8-CURRENT. We build every 12 hours or so for BSDInstaller testing. Instead of me having to roll an ISO after every change I just wait a bit and test. Works well for me and CPU/Disk space is cheap. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:50:33 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66B3B1065680; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:50:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f220.google.com (mail-fx0-f220.google.com [209.85.220.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BACDC8FC20; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:50:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: by fxm20 with SMTP id 20so167553fxm.43 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BJUl13j0Pktrh4DtCQiKHxzaQ5nve1q9wp1luBvLy6g=; b=hjTQoA/h3rkCUAdxCvk1Rc7HD5d5cR3aSe6sIb7G2yeBeVP8cr6DMTRCSpYko6uxG6 Yna5bW34lHRRQrEu8Mvd8GhuS1hRtQ3xGT1JazdJ8Bx1ghLkWVkVQmoNjhH+jKK9Igjf hq4z+6n4vWhOFgE3zvnEklwymuCC9JwYS94EU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=F2h0bDuB1tJMzmrhekZU7LSIUIFuxqg6qDK6KOufdIiJXxh/Iu5+dFHviyA7QJQlBw ieXi16V6RrnwG7frTChBnxhRiXnzezNiaih0GzoQkdnlJQO9vPZgBGy5JdQ+ZZojPuFQ lMbucA9/Hr1wlEp52Mj3fLZ6bZnXCVr6BHhWY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.63.143 with SMTP id b15mr359303bki.8.1244569831650; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> From: Scott Ullrich Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:48:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dan Naumov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:50:34 -0000 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Dan Naumov wrote: > What arch are these snapshots, are they amd64 or i386? Speaking of > -STABLE snapshots, since they are a more slowly moving target than > -CURRENT, 1 snapshot every week or so would definately be enough :) These are i386 FreeBSD-8-CURRENT. We build every 12 hours or so for BSDInstaller testing. Instead of me having to roll an ISO after every change I just wait a bit and test. Works well for me and CPU/Disk space is cheap. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:17:20 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388691065678; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:17:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FBC8FC29; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:17:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so59357ywe.13 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:17:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Hje2ATKZD0JuPmUHxlaHASSRbciibWY0Bj4c10s9xZU=; b=qezaaXFEAXcQNYMZpUxTdc5A6MW/2kWWdixIJe6zlU58Ow/vFkBgKnFjH7yClFxTdx ctV2jcDGv20D0bZzm15SsyHhZDue7aUEG1VzlJwOPv3aEzzLGzFsllFhGXIZGg2w0kBM ZuvxWppLo9ghRJV/MPJUOkJQWt5V0WN20xb0s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=d1Q678Md1si91+mbNxnbGrUg3gqqCwtagTkZDwbzSxDUWhw7YQk4RTJDOTMyrlcpge 2By7TiVRXmaFqP6lh5VEfX0GH0P+FitudBs65vkq/bUwlzt1q1oXXbbHcIkxVZC+h4pg f88D0VPd6/FOZHg4htrQ57VNBUhljup5zz84M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.168.9 with SMTP id q9mr262284ane.144.1244567838728; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:17:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:17:18 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Scott Ullrich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:03:24 +0000 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:17:20 -0000 Great! I am downloading http://snapshots.pfsense.org/FreeBSD_8_0/FreeBSD-20090608-1522-8.0-CURRENT.iso.gz as we speak and will give it a whirl within the next few days. Any plans to do similar snapshot builds of -STABLE? - Dan Naumov On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Scott Ullrich wrote: > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Vincent Hoffman wrote: > [snip] >> >> That said, there have been a few projects to update/replace/whatever >> sysinstall, look at the desktopBSD installer (bsdinstaller) and >> finstall. I'm not sure what the status of either of these 2 are though. > > I was holding off on announcing this publicly but I guess now is a good time. > > Currently we are building FreeBSD-CURRENT + BSDInstaller snapshots > every 12 hours or so at: > http://snapshots.pfsense.org/FreeBSD_8_0/?C=M;O=D > > More information about BSDInstaller / FreeBSD integration is located > here: http://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/BSDInstaller2009 > > If folks would like to help out with the remaining needed items that > would be awesome. > > Scott > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:36:34 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0053106570F; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:36:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.246]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CDE68FC16; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:36:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so65755ana.13 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=5SyXc+qjJNnTJflKIZcpdZprMJz4xT9fVcwPgSnQB7E=; b=ahNknRepa+0JlCKQT+RTfn/FVYUkxtXCSKRQP8mNlTEpCkY6NUWCdwlFiAp5j9KWof CtLuA6USBG896TfzsCSyFBQHSGdLO4hz0zZ87TfZEZPiAM/Qe5gKU3C9p1cOl9+LzJpH 9Y01qTDmbyjDX8qI5qzvPHz903YuwJwIjNuR8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=WS2wRHuqwjzn8PfMybA3V+zzXb78WbNO/9mBODVnpdGErXeXLE0nEhhH6oJmHm0R6W 0H4sDJu0M288HbzAO3d464l92b51EjkEFnw1ka1PcvIBHaTq8p5gQEG/s2p1zlEMcWiy C9w3DgprTzLq0ZifOrO3lwcxo9l5kiYgkAabI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.108.2 with SMTP id g2mr347157anc.35.1244568993797; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:36:33 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Nick Barkas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:03:37 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:36:35 -0000 I know some might dismiss my personal experience as "anecdotal", but yes I have had that happen to me twice. Some googling will show that I am not the only one to ever experience fatal UFS+softupdates failures. I even ran into a page from 2006 (I think), where a fellow wrote some code which would write data to an UFS2 partition that would consistently cause fsck to fail. This actually brings up to another related point, having to actually deal with fsck. On filesystems/volumes of today, which can easily span 10tb+ in a production environment, having to deal with fsck times is a complete no-go. One could of course argue that environments where 10tb+ volumes are used right now are special cases, where the administrator would know of these issues and take appropriate measures to deal with it (UPS, custom installation with gjournal, ZFS, etc), my point still stands. Right now, anyone can walk into a computer store and purchase a consumer 1,5tb or 2tb drive. Have you tried running fsck on a 2tb filesystem? It's not fun. And this will only get worse with time as drive sizes continue to grow. - Dan Naumov On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Nick Barkas wrote: > Can you back this up? I cannot recall having ever rendered a FreeBSD > system unbootable due to UFS/UFS2 problems after a power failure or > crash. I once had a problem with snapshots that made background fsck > fail and crash the system, but it was fixable by booting single user and > running fsck manually. This was a couple of years ago, and I think the > problem has since been fixed. > > ZFS at least probably is not able to replace UFS2 for everyone, at this > time, anyway. Perhaps gjournal can be a replacement for softupdates for > many people who do still need UFS2, but I'm not sure. I think in any > case, any existing bugs that cause UFS2+softupdates to catastrophically > fail in the event of power failures or system crashes need to be fixed. > Making it easier for users to install a system with ZFS or gjournal does > nothing for those who have existing systems with UFS2+softupdates, and > those who cannot use ZFS or gjournal in the near future for whatever > reason. > > That being said, I do agree that being able to support ZFS and gjournal > in sysinstall or an alternative installer would be great. > > Nick > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 18:11:29 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69CCE10656B5 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:11:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manolis@FreeBSD.org) Received: from kane.otenet.gr (kane.otenet.gr [83.235.67.31]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FFE8FC1F for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:11:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manolis@FreeBSD.org) Received: from atomic.dyndns.org (athedsl-4493580.home.otenet.gr [94.71.93.20]) by kane.otenet.gr (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n59I0ru7021458; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:00:54 +0300 Message-ID: <4A2EA355.6010800@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:00:53 +0300 From: Manolis Kiagias User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090414) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Naumov References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:11:30 -0000 Dan Naumov wrote: > Hello list > > Let me preface this by saying that I do not have coding > knowledge/experience, but I am willing to donate my time to help test > things if somebody is already working on this. Hopefully, this will > prevent most of the potential "feel free to submit patches" responses > :) > > Is there any work going on to make sysinstall recognize and abe able > to create and work with GJOURNAL and ZFS? You can still install a gjournal based system fairly easily, just follow this: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/gjournal-desktop/index.html From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 17:46:53 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F341065673; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:46:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F068FC08; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:46:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so69116ywe.13 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:46:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=fakivG/l/stoMcK4CbMIWbPSoBH892CojLkfikbOk6k=; b=dm9ZtqOWypN2NTYLkrqXp/nKiK43ZZfkjrO2EPfJ3oxZq6Oty+e+RPqIlbeM1ETa+Q zMnxb/JspLNemdW3parYlOSjvwGPZsGaW/HvDn47UdAC8LKWyWscV9Z+CTU5kBFdpq3H CelYSrhtJjI9eS7YB/DE1461ANvFoFsi4vJVI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Fem9rfRbY2XRSnwml1EhWXrchXVxJjqZDzMZoUXC6GHUpPFRTj5cdliFfvJL21C94K JbRlbMpbSbUeHAHEo2hK5HOr0SrpMNLsKPXGiq08mvt4P4xg5WrrK55IHcyEYUFWeuYL mRJtRhBSAGXlUojatmANtYuxSdoiHftMrW3Hs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.120.10 with SMTP id s10mr329806anc.86.1244569611246; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:46:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:46:51 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Scott Ullrich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:23:14 +0000 Cc: Wojciech Puchar , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:46:53 -0000 What arch are these snapshots, are they amd64 or i386? Speaking of -STABLE snapshots, since they are a more slowly moving target than -CURRENT, 1 snapshot every week or so would definately be enough :) - Dan Naumov On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Scott Ullrich wrote: > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Dan Naumov wrote: >> Great! I am downloading >> http://snapshots.pfsense.org/FreeBSD_8_0/FreeBSD-20090608-1522-8.0-CURRE= NT.iso.gz >> as we speak and will give it a whirl within the next few days. Any >> plans to do similar snapshot builds of -STABLE? > > I had not planned on it but I guess that some bending of my arm might > be in order. > > I'll look into it. =A0 We just retired a builder box for pfSense that I > might be able to use. > > Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 18:24:33 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76A510656B6 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:24:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (bizet.nethelp.no [195.1.209.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 149908FC22 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:24:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: (qmail 24017 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2009 17:57:50 -0000 Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (HELO localhost) (195.1.209.33) by bizet.nethelp.no with SMTP; 9 Jun 2009 17:57:50 -0000 Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:57:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> To: snb@freebsd.org From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:58:44 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dan.naumov@gmail.com Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:24:34 -0000 > Can you back this up? I cannot recall having ever rendered a FreeBSD > system unbootable due to UFS/UFS2 problems after a power failure or > crash. I once had a problem with snapshots that made background fsck > fail and crash the system, but it was fixable by booting single user and > running fsck manually. This was a couple of years ago, and I think the > problem has since been fixed. I've had several cases that needed manual fsck. After I turned off background fsck, the problems stopped. These days background_fsck="NO" is a standard part of my rc.conf. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 20:07:41 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0256D106566C; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:07:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F169E8FC38; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:07:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59K7YwP008309; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:07:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n59K7XtU008306; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:07:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:07:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> Message-ID: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: snb@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dan.naumov@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:07:42 -0000 >> problem has since been fixed. > > I've had several cases that needed manual fsck. After I turned off > background fsck, the problems stopped. These days background_fsck="NO" > is a standard part of my rc.conf. and mine. actually snapshots doesn't work on large partitions - could simply crash. that's why i wrote that UFS has practically no bugs, except snapshots. But i don't see it as a problem. i don't like my system to start unchecked and then be "background" checked. this background checking slows down system so much and takes more time than foreground checking. FreeBSD really doesn't crash every day, so what a problem to just do fsck at start and wait a bit. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 20:10:31 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F399106566C; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:10:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8078FC1D; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:10:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59KAMQq008335; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:10:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n59KAM5R008332; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:10:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 22:10:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dan Naumov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Nick Barkas , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:10:32 -0000 > filesystems/volumes of today, which can easily span 10tb+ in a > production environment, having to deal with fsck times is a complete > no-go. > just use large block sizes are really small amount of inodes. it's unlikely that you will fill such huge FS with mostly small files, so larger blocks are not wasting space. Just DON'T USE defaults. fsck takes <5 minutes to check 1TB drive with -b 32768 and -i 524288 > One could of course argue that environments where 10tb+ volumes are > used right now are special cases, where the administrator would know No it's not special case. Just needs to be handled properly. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 20:35:06 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3CC31065670; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:35:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEAE8FC0C; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:35:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from randy@psg.com) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1ME82C-000GIK-5I; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:35:04 +0000 Received: from rmac.local.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 859C32091ED7; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:35:03 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:35:02 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:47:11 +0000 Cc: snb@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dan.naumov@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:35:07 -0000 > I've had several cases that needed manual fsck. After I turned off > background fsck, the problems stopped. These days background_fsck="NO" > is a standard part of my rc.conf. don't be so negative, steinar, balance it with fsck_y_enable=YES randy From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 20:58:27 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CF8106568E for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:58:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kraduk@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f212.google.com (mail-ew0-f212.google.com [209.85.219.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DFB8FC18 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:58:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kraduk@googlemail.com) Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so278413ewy.43 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:58:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:references:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-mailer:x-mimeole:in-reply-to:thread-index; bh=udVaTBsHcA9/4YbcAaHN7I0VZJh4DC/LX10c6Ii5PcY=; b=Bz/bbMdkNfOG+9KjS3ykEZUFj9OJnXNqlQ80jUfBy7TsCsLK0jfq1OUsC8BeSHW9uE egtBPAa3JGQfZdLM6CWNd0NrKdfyOZZTuGE3/z/kk1GgkC1sS7EmumhIttbLVOKj/X7X pU29jBo+awldzKhXlrvv+1iGfaXYyRlGnzWt8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:references:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:x-mimeole :in-reply-to:thread-index; b=H8ZgxY9Y3s01q+4blzb0+5zBTPHVG3hvWYHaJFAQotxCmLiW6QPNfT031oXDAR40vx x+vatA6LA76/oGDS1d14uSvV78d4aGa+DKGorU4K2fpW4AIUTszUq2QoK9NHpxm1JO+F v2yUhJY1ltDHOOiWjuYiXDv6tnMjSx1x8BAMI= Received: by 10.210.10.8 with SMTP id 8mr671896ebj.50.1244581105843; Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LTPCSCOTT (lambo.snaffler.net [80.45.84.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm9019618ewy.81.2009.06.09.13.58.24 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:58:25 -0700 (PDT) From: krad To: "'Wojciech Puchar'" , "'Dan Naumov'" References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:58:23 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcnpPmw91yyDm3PkSeu8iiBd1lLn5AABg1pQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:08:42 +0000 Cc: 'Nick Barkas' , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:58:28 -0000 Hmm I disagree about large fs have large files. We have inherited quite a few mail servers at work with 1 TB + fs. They had 10 of millions of files. When we had a failure and had one reboot it was a nightmare, took ages to fix. Needless to say this is all on a zfs backed nfs filer now thank god I do take your point though in many cases what you say would be a good idea. -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Wojciech Puchar Sent: 09 June 2009 21:10 To: Dan Naumov Cc: Nick Barkas; freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS > filesystems/volumes of today, which can easily span 10tb+ in a > production environment, having to deal with fsck times is a complete > no-go. > just use large block sizes are really small amount of inodes. it's unlikely that you will fill such huge FS with mostly small files, so larger blocks are not wasting space. Just DON'T USE defaults. fsck takes <5 minutes to check 1TB drive with -b 32768 and -i 524288 > One could of course argue that environments where 10tb+ volumes are > used right now are special cases, where the administrator would know No it's not special case. Just needs to be handled properly. _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 9 21:23:03 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232E61065670; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:23:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E59E8FC18; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:23:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n59LMuNR008919; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:22:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n59LMunj008916; Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:22:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:22:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: krad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: 'Nick Barkas' , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, 'Dan Naumov' , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: RE: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:23:03 -0000 > Hmm I disagree about large fs have large files. We have inherited quite a > few mail servers at work with 1 TB + fs. They had 10 of millions of files. still 100kB/file. It's fine to use -b 32768 -f 4096 -i 65536 (or 32768 at least) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 08:52:56 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB261065676; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlk.vlakno.cz) Received: from vlakno.cz (77-93-215-190.static.masterinter.net [77.93.215.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A628FC13; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:52:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rdivacky@vlk.vlakno.cz) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vlakno.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A54049CB09C; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:51:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vlakno.cz Received: from vlakno.cz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (lev.vlakno.cz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KnmjLPRtqE2M; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:51:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from vlk.vlakno.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vlakno.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA1A9CB169; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:51:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from rdivacky@localhost) by vlk.vlakno.cz (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id n5A8pcWj007613; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:51:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from rdivacky) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:51:38 +0200 From: Roman Divacky To: Erik Cederstrand Message-ID: <20090610085138.GA7459@freebsd.org> References: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> <31BD4D08-6558-46FF-9B93-CF8249AAC461@cederstrand.dk> <20090604123801.GA34971@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: Ed Schouten , hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Clang: now available from a SVN server near you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:52:57 -0000 On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:45:44AM +0200, Erik Cederstrand wrote: > Hi Roman > > Den 04/06/2009 kl. 14.38 skrev Roman Divacky: > > > >you could use llvm-ld (see the wiki for instructions how to do it). > >there's also some > >effort to make gnu ld usable with llvm LTO and I guess the patch > >could be backported > >to our ld. I guess > > As I understand the reply from Eli Friedman[1] this is not possible > without at least some hacking. > > The LTO work in GNU ld[2] is under GPLv3[3], as is gold[4], which > makes backporting patches a sticky issue. we can ask the person who did the gnu ld work to relicense the one patch under gplv2 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 10:05:02 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE04A106566B for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:05:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AFC58FC23 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:05:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD596D41D; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:05:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8D738844DC; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:05:01 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: sthaug@nethelp.no References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:05:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> (sthaug@nethelp.no's message of "Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:57:50 +0200 (CEST)") Message-ID: <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.92 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: snb@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dan.naumov@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:05:03 -0000 sthaug@nethelp.no writes: > I've had several cases that needed manual fsck. After I turned off > background fsck, the problems stopped. These days background_fsck=3D"NO" > is a standard part of my rc.conf. Hear, hear. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 10:31:31 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C308106573D; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:31:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from woozle.rinet.ru (woozle.rinet.ru [195.54.192.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DE58FC13; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:31:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by woozle.rinet.ru (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n5AAVSqQ006442; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:31:28 +0400 (MSD) (envelope-from marck@rinet.ru) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:31:28 +0400 (MSD) From: Dmitry Morozovsky To: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= In-Reply-To: <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Message-ID: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) X-NCC-RegID: ru.rinet X-OpenPGP-Key-ID: 6B691B03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (woozle.rinet.ru [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:31:29 +0400 (MSD) Cc: snb@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, dan.naumov@gmail.com, sthaug@nethelp.no, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:31:33 -0000 On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Dag-Erling Sm?rgrav wrote: DS> sthaug@nethelp.no writes: DS> > I've had several cases that needed manual fsck. After I turned off DS> > background fsck, the problems stopped. These days background_fsck="NO" DS> > is a standard part of my rc.conf. DS> DS> Hear, hear. Well, I can see at least one rather big problem with bgfsck (or with snapshots to be more precise): inappropriate time of file system lock on snapshot creation. On not-too-big 300G ufs2 not-too-heavy loaded snapshot creation time is 20+ minutes, and 5+ from that file system blocked even on reads. This looks unacceptable for me for any real use. -- Sincerely, D.Marck [DM5020, MCK-RIPE, DM3-RIPN] [ FreeBSD committer: marck@FreeBSD.org ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Dmitry Morozovsky --- D.Marck --- Wild Woozle --- marck@rinet.ru *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 04:19:18 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D5C106564A for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:19:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from James.McPherson@Sun.COM) Received: from sineb-mail-1.sun.com (sineb-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.19.6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82D88FC19 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:19:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from James.McPherson@Sun.COM) Received: from fe-apac-06.sun.com (fe-apac-06.sun.com [192.18.19.177] (may be forged)) by sineb-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n5A4J1Jl011718 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:19:14 GMT MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-apac.sun.com by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) id <0KL000A009AM1T00@mail-apac.sun.com> for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:19:01 +0800 (SGT) Received: from blinder ([unknown] [220.157.71.44]) by mail-apac.sun.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 64bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0KL0008KP9BGJ4H0@mail-apac.sun.com>; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:19:01 +0800 (SGT) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:18:49 +1000 From: "James C. McPherson" Sender: James.McPherson@Sun.COM To: Undisclosed recipients: ; Message-id: <20090610141849.000030f5@blinder> Organization: Sun Microsystems X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.16.1; i386-pc-solaris2.11) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:39:52 +0000 Subject: Only _3_ days left for earlybird registration to Kernel Conference Australia X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:19:18 -0000 Hi everybody, just a short reminder that if you want to come to Kernel Conference Australia at the earlybird price of $195, then you've got until the end of this Friday, 12 June, to get your registration happening. If you're interested in any of these areas: * linux kernel crypto services * ZFS * cross-architecture OS and driver porting * packet filtering and QOS * TCP/IP protocol security * bug finding tools for OpenSource Operating Systems * network virtualisation, or * how a DB engine can really hurt your system then Kernel Conference Australia is for you. Dates: 15 - 17 July Venue: Queensland Brain Institute, UQ The student price is still $95, too. For full abstracts please see http://wikis.sun.com/display/KCA2009/KCA2009+Conference+Agenda For the conference homepage, see http://au.sun.com/sunnews/events/2009/kernel/ And for registration, Go Without Delay To https://www.conveneit.com/secure/sun/kernel_jul_09/ I look forward to seeing you there. Cheers, James C. McPherson -- Senior Kernel Software Engineer, Solaris Sun Microsystems http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog Kernel Conference Australia - http://au.sun.com/sunnews/events/2009/kernel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 11:47:05 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCAB31065694; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:47:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8BD8FC21; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:47:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n5ABl0p5016350; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:47:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n5ABkxul016347; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:46:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:46:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dmitry Morozovsky In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, dan.naumov@gmail.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, sthaug@nethelp.no, snb@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:47:06 -0000 > to be more precise): inappropriate time of file system lock on snapshot > creation. On not-too-big 300G ufs2 not-too-heavy loaded snapshot creation time > is 20+ minutes, and 5+ from that file system blocked even on reads. This looks > unacceptable for me for any real use. that's why i disable it. If you sum up time of total blocked and time of almost-blocked you will end with much more than fsck normally use with foreground check. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 12:04:36 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39E6106588C; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:04:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from yw-out-2324.google.com (yw-out-2324.google.com [74.125.46.28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A488FC12; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:04:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by yw-out-2324.google.com with SMTP id 9so394470ywe.13 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:04:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HR7zCpt9mss1nAWkIybTFdOkW9lyfSRQyQff1kCDkeY=; b=xG19fo/mUNGYbX8WyIBGotjoyq5zuJpeCT69SCxx54cnfNSekQUd1tLhXOm6oQAl3O +0tCCmE2EVw0fbeMca6WNf201kEYK/MYx1Oy9cN5RW91gAK2g6Es6FAkc051s7RXApQS cYtu42pK11iDlt2F1iFISzjnK5okYyclmKgSs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JB15QefoiXDyXQA+8fBTmT8s6NIJ3acYtqFkCZhtTCC/Zl1KNJ2ZR3ZcH9K1HsSEkV tSklbG+A+wd40guwUHkF/fCLlq3DYWUqBPR4rYfP0jwsM/cowYcDJJ/TZvlyqyVpuYW0 EWYogeEm4IY2NTJVcwDbyoR14pA2/8bLQooqY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.8.4 with SMTP id 4mr1145704anh.146.1244635475618; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:04:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:04:35 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:25:37 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dmitry Morozovsky , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, sthaug@nethelp.no, snb@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:04:54 -0000 And things like these are amongst the reasons why I want to see newer options be presented and offered to the user during installation process. Default installation options (and the ONLY options presented by sysinstall) that result in enormous snapshot creation times and long fsck times are just not good enough in the year 2009. I fully understand the reasons behind using something "truly tested and proven by time" as the default, but presenting the newer options to the user during installation process as well gives these newer options (UFS2+GJournal and ZFS in this case) a better exposure, resulting in more testing, resulting in these new features getting their quirks ironed out faster and resulting in these new features getting the "truly tested and proven by time" stamp of approval faster. I think we can all agree this would be a good thing? Sincerely - Dan Naumov On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> to be more precise): inappropriate time of file system lock on snapshot >> creation. On not-too-big 300G ufs2 not-too-heavy loaded snapshot creatio= n >> time >> is 20+ minutes, and 5+ from that file system blocked even on reads. =A0T= his >> looks >> unacceptable for me for any real use. > > that's why i disable it. If you sum up time of total blocked and time of > almost-blocked you will end with much more than fsck normally use with > foreground check. > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 13:11:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F5F1065670; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:11:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [IPv6:2001:4070:101:2::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7618FC2A; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:11:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n5ADBdLd016756; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:11:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) with ESMTP id n5ADBZ0e016753; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:11:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:11:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Dan Naumov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dmitry Morozovsky , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, sthaug@nethelp.no, snb@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:11:47 -0000 > during installation process as well gives these newer options > (UFS2+GJournal and ZFS in this case) a better exposure, resulting in > more testing, resulting in these new features getting their quirks > ironed out faster and resulting in these new features getting the > "truly tested and proven by time" stamp of approval faster. I think we > can all agree this would be a good thing? so fix sysinstall and do sent-pr. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 13:15:56 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE911065673; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:15:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.246]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75D7C8FC0C; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:15:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so410628ana.13 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:15:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6QS1NAWxcKx/tF09D3ysoHCVmruX7qw9kEUuDRfWxZ0=; b=fo9Bc1tJhYlTOqd04fOLTyPheCO2FltKf563CVesuNsdAbXkV6cW2b55hD7Qxd/cEz bLNiwvdxz3rexoTOmeyNb9hmXNTRwmpLgTUHOOKP/aAMlq8ST2RULWhFnYs+YEU3Azso 74HEg3vEE3ChDKfLRQLWCgmYLK6K8k2YiYcWE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nWhkYSi6Z/YD7CI2drEziDy3cXtIK1tctl2usL16fxojqHzwbKMYSp697cYFhvMsfM 19wzMM2fkMxLBDst2I+dKT+6Gfnco/bR1/aeyfg0nSr4/E63BkVtn5UaxZdCwb0C1YZU I7kOcfoKIEueQKdatONxiknOexouZ2DGCtM+E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.105.15 with SMTP id d15mr1219604anc.140.1244639755758; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:15:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:15:55 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:43:00 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dmitry Morozovsky , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, sthaug@nethelp.no, snb@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dag=2DErling_Sm=F8rgrav?= Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:15:57 -0000 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Dan Naumov wrote: > Hello list > > Let me preface this by saying that I do not have coding > knowledge/experience, but I am willing to donate my time to help test > things if somebody is already working on this. Hopefully, this will > prevent most of the potential "feel free to submit patches" responses > :) > > > so fix sysinstall and do sent-pr. > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 14:01:03 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B78106566C for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:01:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@tangobravo.co.uk) Received: from auth-1.ukservers.net (auth-1.ukservers.net [217.10.138.153]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C688FC16 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:01:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@tangobravo.co.uk) Received: from hades.syntheticmoon.co.uk (82-71-38-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk [82.71.38.22]) by auth-1.ukservers.net (Postfix smtp) with ESMTP id 4D6DD36F9D71 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:38:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4A2FB742.6080307@tangobravo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:38:10 +0100 From: Tim Borgeaud User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:55:47 +0000 Subject: Device drivers, mmap/munmap and freeing memory X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:01:03 -0000 I'm currently working on some wrappers and compatibility functions for allowing USB Linux device driver code to be compiled to create a FreeBSD driver module. I.e. extending the work of Luigi Rizzo (linux-kmod-compat) and/or the compatibility code now present in the FreeBSD USB stack. This approach, for creating drivers from Linux source, will probably be moved into userland in one way or another, but for now I'm going to see if I can make some progress by getting some Linux webcam drivers working. The problem I'm currently wrestling with is how to manage the emulation of Linux's mmapping. Linux driver code expects to be able to use some callback functions that are invoked when certain mmap related events occur. Drivers appear to use an open/close pair of functions that are called when a processes starts or stops using mapped memory. These are typically used to maintain a reference count for the memory. As far as I can tell, in FreeBSD, a vm_object_t also contains a similar reference count. The vm subsystem cleans up vm objects (and vm_map entries etc) when the reference count falls to zero. The trouble I have is that it appears that I'm going to need some way to let Linux driver code know whether or not some memory is still in use, i.e. whether the FreeBSD system still holds a vm_object for the mmapped memory. Ideally, I could invoke the Linux driver functions appropriately (when the vm subsystem increments or decrements reference counts for a vm_object). However, it should be enough just to make sure that the Linux driver close callback function is invoked when mapped memory has been unmapped. As far as I can tell, closing mapped file descriptors should not effect the reference count. It appears that it is quite legitimate to access mapped memory after the corresponing file descriptor has been closed. I'm wondering if there is any way to figure out whether some memory is still mapped (by the vm subsystem), whether or not a driver could be informed about munmapping (or forking etc) or what the possible effects would be if memory that has been mmapped is freed (while it may be in use). I suspect that applications will simply open, mmap and then close (and exit). So I think it would not be unreasonable to cause applications that work in some other way to fail. However, I also suspect that the failure resulting from attempts to access memory that has just been freed by a driver may be worse than a crashed application. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 16:11:25 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C95106567B; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:11:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6768FC26; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:11:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B3EB87A; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:55:16 -0500 (CDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at wolves.k12.mo.us Received: from mail.wolves.k12.mo.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id luGhZKllryz2; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:55:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from wolves.k12.mo.us (mail.wolves.k12.mo.us [207.160.214.1]) by mail.wolves.k12.mo.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07876B809; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:55:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rstech28.int.wolves.k12.mo.us (rstech28.int.wolves.k12.mo.us [10.1.3.200]) by www.wolves.k12.mo.us (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:55:15 -0500 Message-ID: <20090610105515.138862z6opgohgtf@www.wolves.k12.mo.us> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:55:15 -0500 From: Chris Dillon To: Dmitry Morozovsky References: <20090609172142.GA92146@ebi.local> <20090609.195750.41709103.sthaug@nethelp.no> <86hbyowgj6.fsf@ds4.des.no> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.3.3 / FreeBSD-6.4 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:11:26 -0000 Quoting Dmitry Morozovsky : > Well, I can see at least one rather big problem with bgfsck (or with > snapshots to be more precise): inappropriate time of file system > lock on snapshot creation. On not-too-big 300G ufs2 not-too-heavy > loaded snapshot creation time is 20+ minutes, and 5+ from that file > system blocked even on reads. This looks unacceptable for me for > any real use. The snapshot time depends heavily on the I/O throughput of your disk subsystem. On a several year old system with 5 x 72GB 15KRPM U320 SCSI drives in a RAID5 array, a fairly well loaded 260GB filesystem (90GB used, 354K out of 8M inodes used, and several hundred MB to a GB of changes per day) completes a snapshot in exactly 2 minutes. 2 minutes is still too long to be blocking I/O in the middle of the day when it is being actively used, so I just take 1 snapshot per day while it is idle. I would love to put ZFS on this system so that I could have finer grained snapshots, but I need user quota support which our ZFS currently lacks. -- Chris Dillon - NetEng/SysAdm Reeds Spring R-IV School District Technology Department 175 Elementary Rd. Reeds Spring, MO 65737 Voice: 417-272-8266 Fax: 417-272-0015 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 22:15:03 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BF4106566C for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell.rawbw.com (shell.rawbw.com [198.144.192.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B57B8FC15 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail1.rawbw.com (mail1.rawbw.com [198.144.192.43]) by shell.rawbw.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n5AMF2VN063696; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip139.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net (ip139.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net [24.219.144.139]) by webmail.rawbw.com (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:15:02 -0700 Message-ID: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:15:02 -0700 From: Yuri To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.2.1-RC1) Subject: 7.2-PRERELEASE hangs every time after running airodump-ng on ath0 for a few hours X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:15:03 -0000 I got this hang twice in the last day. After 2-3 hours of continuously run airodiump-ng (from net-mgmt/aircrack-ng) system stops responding to any mouse/keyboard clicks. Why would aircrack-ng hang the system? How to troubleshoot this? I am current on ports and my kernel is from May 6. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 22:29:21 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463F91065675 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:29:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glen.j.barber@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f214.google.com (mail-bw0-f214.google.com [209.85.218.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49038FC28 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:29:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glen.j.barber@gmail.com) Received: by bwz10 with SMTP id 10so487447bwz.43 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:29:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Gq4SYwjtXmt4P8KxiVuac2B/8JnQQWzFvWfLkpGxegk=; b=QSw3hUGPKSEDxp4Sx5gSZOqtG28W+BKMB4keq16kmga4UEgOuOjHq6NEco1wbfLesl 3kaczlU7C7+eDF3J85vqUeN/DDsvRNHFDoYvl9fI5rjhl74aL0Ir+5JoHKhMHdwyqKrk 8hIVtCKaoKGepjCqg6ihhcophc2T9/7HdoxyU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GZ4xCvqGRn4b1c6Yqay8Lqu9QgDfwmuW826lynzmXtDH6ByBxOhz5+mcufZJLqrUny 344au2uKUPIjEOrN65y+m8/ytAceQgfSjRmznyuSwJGv7T/1NOTM0G2UQPXOjUBi5kbt P/JbryP1uXIGkqdxuNhzS2BsKZf7qzA7xH+yA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.102.14 with SMTP id e14mr1746017bko.209.1244672959546; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:29:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:29:19 -0400 Message-ID: <4ad871310906101529n7886d189yab8b1bbdd174ba6b@mail.gmail.com> From: Glen Barber To: Yuri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7.2-PRERELEASE hangs every time after running airodump-ng on ath0 for a few hours X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:29:21 -0000 Hi, Yuri On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Yuri wrote: > I got this hang twice in the last day. After 2-3 hours of continuously run > airodiump-ng (from net-mgmt/aircrack-ng) system stops responding to any > mouse/keyboard clicks. > > Why would aircrack-ng hang the system? > How to troubleshoot this? > > I am current on ports and my kernel is from May 6. > By chance, are you running an out-of-sync kernel / userland? You say the kernel is from May 6, and in the subject is 7.2-PRERELEASE. 7.2 was -RELEASEd on May 3. -- Glen Barber From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 22:59:47 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85FA10656C5 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:59:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell.rawbw.com (shell.rawbw.com [198.144.192.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A805F8FC2D for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:59:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail1.rawbw.com (mail1.rawbw.com [198.144.192.43]) by shell.rawbw.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n5AMxlJK071680; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip139.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net (ip139.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net [24.219.144.139]) by webmail.rawbw.com (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:59:47 -0700 Message-ID: <20090610155947.204348i5yvsi8x0k@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:59:47 -0700 From: Yuri To: "Glen Barber" References: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> <4ad871310906101529n7886d189yab8b1bbdd174ba6b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4ad871310906101529n7886d189yab8b1bbdd174ba6b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.2.1-RC1) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7.2-PRERELEASE hangs every time after running airodump-ng on ath0 for a few hours X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:59:48 -0000 Quoting "Glen Barber" : > By chance, are you running an out-of-sync kernel / userland? You say > the kernel is from May 6, and in the subject is 7.2-PRERELEASE. 7.2 > was -RELEASEd on May 3. I am sorry, it's 7.2-RELEASE. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 10 23:47:16 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177AD106566B for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:47:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onemda@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f220.google.com (mail-fx0-f220.google.com [209.85.220.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A628FC12 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:47:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onemda@gmail.com) Received: by fxm20 with SMTP id 20so1110113fxm.43 for ; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:47:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Yoe2c4KwhgExreWr6KALKQlENYLCAhbWRpdxpTMY2cI=; b=Kn/xbfrcZtTsM62DgiRloDuAouvUsaRj6dhS33nMM0qOzgvoPWJxIejIfTB7be1Qwy OK2/31HciMjS5Tijc33KEBUrXrJJaFct4Lp3JuvE8D0KYbtMntOGoMyEvHO+YVicsehI L5Oel9RIm/Js1eecmT4EAQKh8mfOewsCVxBtA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jeja04qngP+aZxED7PshEA4MFiilUl8Brx1fvRxDO3Z4RXtKEh7Qm1fM6nT84R6xkH NVnKiTVj2WzWOHxdndXQIg8KKcFTWu7lqthC4p1vWobb3DO03uQ/gd4opYJex6OHqVZK B46pLQnIHRwaovnIHDwy1sASTJ7XQ2Xhcta+w= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.116.9 with SMTP id k9mr1821722bkq.159.1244677634400; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:47:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:47:14 +0000 Message-ID: <3a142e750906101647r198aa62dncee8ba0a87c52597@mail.gmail.com> From: "Paul B. Mahol" To: Yuri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7.2-PRERELEASE hangs every time after running airodump-ng on ath0 for a few hours X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:47:16 -0000 On 6/10/09, Yuri wrote: > I got this hang twice in the last day. After 2-3 hours of continuously > run airodiump-ng (from net-mgmt/aircrack-ng) system stops responding > to any mouse/keyboard clicks. > > Why would aircrack-ng hang the system? Bugs in ath(4) and device itself can hang system. -- Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 11 01:43:24 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13000106567C for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:43:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell.rawbw.com (shell.rawbw.com [198.144.192.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52078FC17 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:43:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from mail1.rawbw.com (mail1.rawbw.com [198.144.192.43]) by shell.rawbw.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id n5B1hNJq098999; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ip139.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net (ip139.carlyle.sfo.ygnition.net [24.219.144.139]) by webmail.rawbw.com (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:43:23 -0700 Message-ID: <20090610184323.15063sewh2w3ua2o@webmail.rawbw.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:43:23 -0700 From: Yuri To: "Glen Barber" References: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> <4ad871310906101529n7886d189yab8b1bbdd174ba6b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4ad871310906101529n7886d189yab8b1bbdd174ba6b@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.2.1-RC1) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7.2-PRERELEASE hangs every time after running airodump-ng on ath0 for a few hours X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:43:24 -0000 Quoting "Glen Barber" : > By chance, are you running an out-of-sync kernel / userland? You say > the kernel is from May 6, and in the subject is 7.2-PRERELEASE. 7.2 > was -RELEASEd on May 3. I just updated to more recent 72-STABLE and still got the hang. Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 11 12:04:28 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CECD10657CF for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:04:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f212.google.com (mail-ew0-f212.google.com [209.85.219.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6BB8FC20 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:04:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@gmail.com) Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so1610284ewy.43 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:04:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-pgp-agent:x-mailer; bh=bwywSmBV/QoPmETOSgLNu5IERO01fQvfiEvNVM68TLk=; b=ql51SfceeLAAgKGBEAKHl15kAVKtaIEKzwwkL1G6Mcy/otV/rMbnp18jNZ9oQUNRpM sy+c2gHxq4seyH1omYyuj/cQPepw0usTviLnXkVGPHodL2LP0+b4N6ZnfIBceOJuNdXo 25mub5D3UOBpNzs4Wbcl12RWxxzXTxK75h7V8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-pgp-agent:x-mailer; b=cEFunbLYhUEgMa2+f93fWs02qkYrh9WnyUUBIIQDeMKr12RBnT6jj9YP6sX7gians4 0AAM8SzkrJJ8JzPddxoZI2b8Zv+gQnngQ1q+ez/RVonMx+0e65HWAfw9UA3/jAkuAa96 Zs05wd2kNDm5bZPS/4cnM3N4XUshl+d1S0exM= Received: by 10.210.38.5 with SMTP id l5mr3017346ebl.98.1244721866710; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epsilon.lan (bl11-195-202.dsl.telepac.pt [85.244.195.202]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 24sm122637eyx.23.2009.06.11.05.04.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9793F82E-F48A-45F6-AC38-B7DE4BEA1D8E@gmail.com> From: Rui Paulo To: Yuri In-Reply-To: <20090610184323.15063sewh2w3ua2o@webmail.rawbw.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-1-126688495" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:04:20 +0100 References: <20090610151502.9206375pvaxw7pes@webmail.rawbw.com> <4ad871310906101529n7886d189yab8b1bbdd174ba6b@mail.gmail.com> <20090610184323.15063sewh2w3ua2o@webmail.rawbw.com> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.2.0 (v56) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:39:12 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Glen Barber Subject: Re: 7.2-PRERELEASE hangs every time after running airodump-ng on ath0 for a few hours X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:04:32 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-1-126688495 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11 Jun 2009, at 02:43, Yuri wrote: > Quoting "Glen Barber" : > >> By chance, are you running an out-of-sync kernel / userland? You say >> the kernel is from May 6, and in the subject is 7.2-PRERELEASE. 7.2 >> was -RELEASEd on May 3. > > I just updated to more recent 72-STABLE and still got the hang. It would help if you could provide the backtrace. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug-gdb.html Also, you may want to try HEAD because monitor mode has changed quite a bit in HEAD. Regards, -- Rui Paulo --Apple-Mail-1-126688495 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkow8sQACgkQfD8M/ASTygKAygCfTRy45IL6AEpnRTqNuu4cHEaX Rf8Ani1AZTjV6SPcFqT0rTqrmmS/o2i6 =VYQQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-1-126688495-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 11 15:30:11 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EF6106566B for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:30:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patfbsd@davenulle.org) Received: from smtp.lamaiziere.net (net.lamaiziere.net [91.121.44.19]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 065EA8FC0A for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:30:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patfbsd@davenulle.org) Received: from baby-jane.lamaiziere.net (54.158.192-77.rev.gaoland.net [77.192.158.54]) by smtp.lamaiziere.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EDFF963353A for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:13:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from baby-jane.lamaiziere.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baby-jane.lamaiziere.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5017ECA31 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:13:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:13:45 +0200 From: Patrick =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Lamaizi=E8re?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20090611171345.113207f0@baby-jane.lamaiziere.net> Organization: /dave/nulle X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.1 (GTK+ 2.16.2; i386-portbld-freebsd7.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Hardware random number generator X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:30:11 -0000 Hello, There are two ways to managed a RNG in FreeBSD, I'm asking which is the best: - feed the random subsystem via random_harvest(9) - add the RNG to random(4) as the Nehemiah RNG (VIA padlock) In fact, i do not understand why the Nehemiah RNG is not managed by padlock(4). Thanks, regards. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 11 17:09:29 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809C5106564A; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:09:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pawel.worach@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com (mail-bw0-f227.google.com [209.85.218.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24AF8FC12; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:09:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pawel.worach@gmail.com) Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so47930bwz.43 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:09:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gHs19X3IJpMx4zhtfhdU85fLam8VjJl6K4GYdHfTrVg=; b=WWfdqKowfmgXU/5hNdlxnCfkWF/cLhq8ubq7v//JKAIBdCmXMBLGOB7eERpK+ikZgk WYqtOuDMW/xoby2YQ5ZOouQSeHGj6qFghxHx9UT/xZLUoP/kGEIH6SEbvVA3qe7D7/X0 TlAXIHtdPDUAawehi7NshjlqqpLhdmEvuD1Rk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=L5vuzueSkGHP5HYzlu5Zx+BQYFyrknLuDoZ+yarHVv3iJ3ntDcTo8llbPaZnMEB/AZ G8bzzvmhB3/qiq+E2I6mFvS0/irNX30/9N0ypKg1Rv2NI4Ms9fHB8FzaWbW3678pk9S1 QnvsrO6qLVjYW+GfLSC2CmukjgGw/rQYpID6k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.100.201 with SMTP id z9mr2668581bkn.168.1244740167103; Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:09:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090609101745.GE48776@hoeg.nl> References: <20090604093831.GE48776@hoeg.nl> <20090608.120552.756910862.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090609101745.GE48776@hoeg.nl> Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:09:27 +0200 Message-ID: From: Pawel Worach To: Ed Schouten Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Clang: now available from a SVN server near you! X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:09:29 -0000 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 12:17, Ed Schouten wrote: > * Pawel Worach wrote: >> So runtime performance is on par with gcc, code size is a bit bigger >> so there is still room for optimization in LLVM. > > I don't agree on the code size. Code size is comparable. I just did a > quick ls through /bin. There also seem to be a lot of cases where Clang > generates smaller binaries. > > Some time ago the binaries were indeed a lot bigger, but that turned out > to be a bug in Clang, where a compiler flag had a wrong default value, > namely the flag that determined whether zero-initialized data had to go > in BSS or not. Here are some updated results with llvm/clang r73189. Compile time and executable size for amd64 LINT (without profiling because clang does not support it yet): clang: 314.582u 29.555s 5:44.72 99.8% 14250+2428k 0+0io 481pf+0w text data bss dec hex filename 18034015 3563057 2910192 24507264 175f380 kernel -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 27208927 Jun 11 14:34 kernel gcc: 510.206u 30.260s 8:56.93 100.6% 7032+2414k 0+0io 14pf+0w text data bss dec hex filename 17342564 2623505 2918704 22884773 15d31a5 kernel -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 24115620 Jun 11 14:45 kernel Also an updated ports/benchmarks/libmicro run available here: http://www.vlakno.cz/~pwo/lm/2009-06-11/lm.html -- Pawel From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 12 21:55:46 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E9A81065673 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:55:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from msnkipa@mail.ru) Received: from mx44.mail.ru (mx44.mail.ru [94.100.176.58]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574C88FC14 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:55:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from msnkipa@mail.ru) Received: from f261.mail.ru (f261.mail.ru [194.67.57.7]) by mx44.mail.ru (mPOP.Fallback_MX) with ESMTP id 27F8B380020DB for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:42:09 +0400 (MSD) Received: from mail by f261.mail.ru with local id 1MFEVh-00073Q-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:42:05 +0400 Received: from [188.134.3.101] by win.mail.ru with HTTP; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:42:05 +0400 From: =?koi8-r?Q?=ED=C9=C8=C1=C9=CC_=EB=C9=D0=C1?= To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: mPOP Web-Mail 2.19 X-Originating-IP: 192.168.7.82 via proxy [188.134.3.101] Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:42:05 +0400 X-Mru-Data: 2679:1:1:107:107:0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: X-Spam: Not detected X-Mras: Ok Subject: GNAT on FreeBSD amd64 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: =?koi8-r?Q?=ED=C9=C8=C1=C9=CC_=EB=C9=D0=C1?= List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:55:46 -0000 I need gnat on FreeBSD 7.2 amd64, but in ports it is only for i386 :(. I have tired to compile cross compiler under linux, and now I can compile my ada programs under linux for FreeBSD, but I can`t compile native amd64 FreeBSD gcc. Can anybody help me with GNAT under amd64 FreeBSD? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 12 22:07:40 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914FB106566B; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:07:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.251]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320638FC12; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:07:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so1371308ana.13 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:07:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HAgaEKiwXHZhrrRRRi3wOsNSz0/dxU7POy32k5ijtL8=; b=r/1obRRJJbOMyuCJbKm31UVFf9tvztUKEwcZYpLQo1pnUAbg5Fjze34k5g3WJtHgNf wvUWnuVGqbmsGwObdS1noQix7brlQGG54kXj7Z+jlL2zUZV3Dkh8xE8WuRVYRq+kch+S Rtaeiy7ZycMQq7+1jIfpmyI3YJ9y+xsrM9jBE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=LO3E7HFioSycDa9zRM1+YXc47spxdFvz2oIDf1BImjUchwcC4Cx7rjSeVN/hT3cVy+ s00WUcRjFqwL6CbT9SWqBWsZjorCXoA/QIXJuZQhkWCpRC9qFkpeNGvRFWDvWwqTaO6H fZslO/S9uKuVoVH6dfg8UYGek4Q5T8mHceK/8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.66.15 with SMTP id t15mr5504656ank.194.1244844459901; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:07:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:07:39 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Scott Ullrich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:18:43 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:07:41 -0000 As promised, I took a go at this new BSDInstaller, I wrote down some of my thoughts. Since I don't know if this is the kind of feedback you are looking for, here is just a part of it. As you can probably guess from it, I deal with usability issues in software applications a lot, hence my point of view, but obviously I can find my way around a UNIX without much issues. FreeBSD-20090608-1522-8.0-CURRENT image was used: ============================================= Initial BOOT: The boot goes as planned, but the user is dropped off to a login prompt. There is no direct indication for the user regarding how to proceed. Adding a note just before the login prompt saying something like "login as "root" with an empty password" would be nice. Again, as soon the user does log on, there is no indication as to how to launch the actual installer. This, as well as the previous problem could be solved by presenting the user with a simple menu screen, like this: Welcome to FreeBSD, choose your option: 1: Launch the FreeBSD installer 2: Drop to an emergency rescue shell This would eleminate the actual need to log in as well, we could just autologin as root for both options. Initial options in the actual installer: option: the names in a long list don't actually tell the user anything regarding how does any of the fonts look. Would it be possible to have a small sample preview next to each presented font option? option: again, the screen map options do not really explain the user what he should be choosing. A short description of every option is needed at the very least. option: ditto, same thing. Another approach to this altogether could be a serious of questions like: "What country do you live in? What language is your keyboard?" providing multiple options for an answer for each question. After a series of questions, the installer could just automatically pick up most sane defaults based on the answers given by the user and finally ask "Does the fonts on the screen look alright to you? Try typing in here, do the expect characters appear as they should?" and if the user is unsatisfied, he can be dropped to the kinds of a big selection list which is used by the installer right now. short description, a lot of the kernel module names are cryptic and a > new user cannot be reasonably expected to evaluate and make an > informed decision regarding what he does want and what he doesn't > based on a simple file list of the modules. Also a good idea and should be relatively easy if we can pull the short description dynamically somehow vs. hard coding it? > screen: The screen states that in order to do a > manual installation " login as root, and follow the instructions > given in the file /README". There is no indication regarding how the > user is supposed to open the README file, at least ONE sane option > should be suggested (for example: login as root and type "vi README" > at the command prompt to read the instructions regarding installing > FreeBSD manually. This is leftover and also needs to be addressed. So far I have focused on getting the BSDI ported to FreeBSD and to remove the "pfSense'sms" that where present. Really appreciate all of the advice but I am hoping that it does not get lost. Do you mind helping me update the Wiki with your suggestions? Maybe add a usability improvements section. If not I can get it updated later this weekend. Also I am working on getting 7-STABLE snapshots together and embedded images suitable for compact flash cards ala DD/physdiskwrite.exe. Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 13 20:08:01 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774691065672; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:08:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f212.google.com (mail-ew0-f212.google.com [209.85.219.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF04F8FC12; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:08:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sullrich@gmail.com) Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so3271927ewy.43 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:07:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=W+KfTIESr8x1qQwMUBF7RKetE1YHWdKWsK1/3Khm3Qc=; b=nYmbmyAh26r1QcBwdYERLn7WVxAJwzvsgZVzdzCfBWSWMyu/u7xzJaT/Y32bFSMOpK vGdtk/qqabpnZhfIUL5BEmT+GcN6ZAEaS3aq8VuURmwBE0j9t8o7eTr9M5G8dUJRWIBy tYFkJKvRQUrxfZXOUClEQshsh6uu8BCZBCUWw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=UHV/OxMELTN8mkM3aBVBcZRufIdf6gvdmJKt0ZYqY4Fhwaj6PBVkwASgVB/FwsMNH6 oRul84jZbII1+8w042ne+9xWo91MPhdBFa/Uir4HxRUZ1hO/A3IPpIQn7zKAZMGpPgLU RQKTQwDxksBdGu1Od2VhLsllSG2GDCOhMO5II= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.27.14 with SMTP id a14mr2464107eba.26.1244923679087; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:07:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> From: Scott Ullrich Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 16:07:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dan Naumov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:08:02 -0000 On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Dan Naumov wrote: > Which Wiki do you want me to contribute this to? > http://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/BSDInstaller2009 or > http://wiki.bsdinstaller.org/wikka.php?wakka=BSDInstaller ? Whichever > it is, I am not that experienced with editing Wikis, so perhaps you > could create the needed sections/subsections for usability issues and > I would look into filling my thoughts into them when I have some time? I just added a section to http://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/BSDInstaller2009 .. It's quite easy to work the wiki. Thanks for the suggestions and testing the Installer! Scott From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 13 20:23:51 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFDC106566B for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:23:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from tim.des.no (tim.des.no [194.63.250.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDE38FC0C for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:23:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from ds4.des.no (des.no [84.49.246.2]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4706D418; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:23:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by ds4.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 4D18484487; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:23:50 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: freebsd@akruijff.dds.nl References: <20090613110618.GA1462@Alex1.lan> <20090613120117.GA28947@pm513-1.comsys.ntu-kpi.kiev.ua> <20090613133238.GC1462@Alex1.lan> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:23:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20090613133238.GC1462@Alex1.lan> (Alex de Kruijff's message of "Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:32:38 +0200") Message-ID: <86prd7x4q1.fsf@ds4.des.no> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.92 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Andrey Simonenko , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Porting problem with gnu configure (c++ -V) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:23:52 -0000 Alex de Kruijff writes: > Andrey Simonenko writes: > > It's better to see your version for configure.ac, since without its > > content it is hard to say something. > Oke here it is: This configure.ac can not possibly have produced the configure.log you posted earlier. Can you please show us the *real* configure.ac and / or configure.log? DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 13 19:56:24 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7188106568F; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:56:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com [209.85.132.248]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D4F8FC16; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:56:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan.naumov@gmail.com) Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id c3so1594314ana.13 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:56:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DCeWR5mDIJBbplnrqZRSmBgoSomhBBcxPY67U1wLsmY=; b=sCeUEpv+7SKa9OvvoykhE3z399KiQLrV4Ol/ieG/feGmCSLJxQE+t8U8HpVZkuk9qD azFd2yYXtL/88T9d8sXsl2lx/EmEQMbEIgro6j0x4gjw0/izOwV7ypWZmLz3TFoXWDlK dnhwEp8rpBruJYjUwMaZJym8773Oyo2d9/2mY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=yIUKaYkM8pbGmRHdyIc/0G05SGU3OTaawW1EKED0zWygrugHA3uT0I65Fg7fcDmgtC 7Mf0tksjBpr4JYFuPaVVUyrXA1dcb/9aWXJQEa56pkKlm3dpgaf1IfNTdBX2SNIIt8c/ /9dwTlxqNGT670+XLMAexglT46eTt5j/+6nqY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.249.14 with SMTP id w14mr6666224anh.162.1244922982901; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:56:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A2E84DC.1010900@unsane.co.uk> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:56:22 +0300 Message-ID: From: Dan Naumov To: Scott Ullrich Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:58:22 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Vincent Hoffman Subject: Re: sysinstall, GJOURNAL and ZFS X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:56:25 -0000 Which Wiki do you want me to contribute this to? http://wiki.freebsd.org/FreeBSD/BSDInstaller2009 or http://wiki.bsdinstaller.org/wikka.php?wakka=3DBSDInstaller ? Whichever it is, I am not that experienced with editing Wikis, so perhaps you could create the needed sections/subsections for usability issues and I would look into filling my thoughts into them when I have some time? Sincerely, - Dan Naumov On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Scott Ullrich wrote: > Really appreciate all of the advice but I am hoping that it does not > get lost. =A0 Do you mind helping me update the Wiki with your > suggestions? =A0 Maybe add a usability improvements section. =A0 If not I > can get it updated later this weekend. > > Also I am working on getting 7-STABLE snapshots together and embedded > images suitable for compact flash cards ala DD/physdiskwrite.exe. > > Scott > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 13 21:54:16 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D917E106568C for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail1.sol.net (mail1.sol.net [206.55.64.72]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B388B8FC21 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:54:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from aurora.sol.net (aurora.sol.net [206.55.65.130]) by mail1.sol.net (8.14.1/8.14.1/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id n5DKtFv3021464 for ; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.9/Submit) id n5DKtTAW063495 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <200906132055.n5DKtTAW063495@aurora.sol.net> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:55:29 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Maybe confused about AMD64 / i386 compatibility X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:54:17 -0000 Background (most probably not necessary): We use rsync snapshots and cheap IDE disks as part of our backup strategy. Recently, a backup server started getting near full, and with 1.5TB disks being what they are, we shot to replace a 750GB IDE with a 1.5TB SATA. The backup server was upgraded to FreeBSD 7.2R/i386, it sports a 4GB flash which leaves two drive bays in the Intel ISP1100 chassis available. Adding a SIL3112A gives us the SATA. Good to go. Create 1.5TB filesys, and copy the old 750GB to it. Option 1, using dd followed by growfs, doesn't work. Groan. growfs bombs out with a negative integer in some array, and it isn't clear to me what is happening. So let's do the old slow but reliable dump/restore. Except that a dump/restore of the filesystem, which is full of hardlinks, causes massive resource consumption and eventual exhaustion. Okay, fine. Option 2, dump with gzip -1 to a file on the new drive (it'll have enough space to restore in a separate step). This works great. Verify file integrity (~400GB). Also just fine. Restore. Watch restore grow to near 3GB and then bail. Okay, obviously an i386 architecture won't handle this restore. So, think, aha, I'll go and put it on a FreeBSD 7.1R/amd64 Opteron box with 8GB that is idle at the moment. -->> And here's where it all goes wonky. Using a USB-to-SATA adapter, I plug in the drive to the amd64. It sees it. I mount it. All looks fine. Good! # mount /dev/da1s1d /mnt # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on [...] /dev/da1s1d 1419039310 432472500 873043666 33% /mnt Now I try a restore. So I do "gunzip < ad3s1e.dmp2 | restore rvf -" ... and gzip claims the data isn't compressed. # gunzip < ad3s1e.dmp2 | restore rvf - gunzip: stdin: not in gzip format Verify tape and initialize maps End-of-tape encountered Tape is not a dump tape Look at the data, looks generally compressed. But file(1) sees it as "data", not gzip data. So, scratch head, wonder if it might be some odd gzip incompatibility, get latest GNU gzip, still no go. Rather annoyed, I think, "but I know I verified this was a good file" - so I take the disk back to the i386, put it in on the SATA controller, and it works fine. So suddenly I think the USB-to-SATA is garbage and is corrupting the data. I md5 the first portions of the file, and go back, put the disk on the amd64 with the USB-to-SATA. # dd if=ad3s1e.dmp2 bs=2048 count=1 | md5 Returns f86ea62b2c77c58691001371c283c7a0 on i386, 43ca53ad03650bc8c8fd1279ce19a675 on amd64. !!!!!!! This seems really odd. So just to be sure, I go back to the i386 box, this time with the USB-to-SATA... and it returns the correct answer. Double "!!!!!!!!!" Now I finally get smart and try working with the raw disk device. # dd if=/dev/da1s1 bs=2048 count=1024 | md5 1024+0 records in 1024+0 records out 2097152 bytes transferred in 7.189189 secs (291709 bytes/sec) 504efcdd93164c496c07603ba9b3774c In all cases: 7.1amd64/USB: 504efcdd93164c496c07603ba9b3774c 7.2i386/SATA: 504efcdd93164c496c07603ba9b3774c 7.1amd64/USB: 504efcdd93164c496c07603ba9b3774c So the underlying hardware and driver support "seems" to be fine. And now this brings me to my question. In my experience, FreeBSD filesystems are portable across i386-amd64. Are there circumstances where this isn't the case? I'm happy to concede that the filesystem in question is rather largish (1.5TB) and probably stresses things a little bit. # ls -al total 432471268 drwxr-xr-x 5 root wheel 512 Jun 13 11:07 . drwxr-xr-x 24 root wheel 512 Feb 18 09:18 .. drwxrwxr-x 2 root operator 512 Jun 5 08:20 .snap -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 434044319653 Jun 10 19:25 ad3s1e.dmp2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 33 Jun 13 11:07 c1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 33 Jun 13 11:07 c1024 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 33 Jun 13 11:07 c256 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 33 Jun 13 11:07 c4 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 80 Jun 13 10:43 logfile drwx------ 293 root wheel 18432 Jun 8 04:25 lost+found -rw-rw-rw- 1 root wheel 8589934592 Jun 8 00:33 swapfile drwxrwxrwx 9 root wheel 512 Jun 8 14:14 x Oh, and just to add some pain and agony to the puzzle ... it all seems to work fine on 6.1-RELEASE/amd64 ... and 7.0-RELEASE/amd64. But on a different machine. Which is where I'm doing my extraction. So I'm not sure what to make of this. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.