From owner-freebsd-sysinstall@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 25 17:14:39 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8851065670 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 17:14:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF988FC14 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 17:14:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.82.228.151] (port=47597 helo=windhcp51.vicor.com) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1OGxhz-0005i7-Jg; Tue, 25 May 2010 10:14:29 -0700 From: Devin Teske To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Vicor, Inc Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 10:14:27 -0700 Message-Id: <1274807667.6175.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-41.el4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scan-Signature: ac92434a94776a934d5a961bb6a95535 X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 May 2010 17:49:38 +0000 Cc: Subject: NIC Selection Menu X-BeenThere: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Sysinstall Work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 17:14:39 -0000 I just got a call from the field which inspired me with an enhancement idea for sysinstall... Problem: Currently as-it-stands, when performing a network-based install with sysinstall, sysinstall gives you no indication as to which network interface is "active" (versus "no carrier" for 'status')... often leading to the scenario where the field engineer has to try one, and then the other. Solution: Sysinstall could "bold" the NIC entry in the selection menu if (and only-if) [a] it is able to properly probe the status of said NIC and [b] said status indicates that a cable is plugged into the interface. The particular problem that this poor field engineer ran into was that he tried to configure one interface, surreptitiously failed, then tried to configure the next (without reboot) and then dead-locked himself because the system was ultimately confused with both NICs using the same IP address (diagnosed by walking said field engineer through a series of commands on the emergency Holo shell -- over on Alt+F4). Currently, I am instructing our field engineers to -- when presented with the NIC selection menu -- do the following (because our install disc supports this, as it has been highly customized): 1. Press Alt+F4 2. Type "rescue" and hit enter NOTE: A special feature of our install disc... the mfsroot has a shell script named /stand/rescue which bootstraps (using ldconfig, et. al.) a fully-functional bash shell with 217 ancillary binaries, such as ifconfig, awk, grep, ls, and many MANY more 3. Type "ifconfig" and hit enter 4. Find which adapter has "status: active" opposed to "status: no carrier" 5. Press Alt+F1 to go back to the install menu which is prompting for NIC selection 6. Select the proper NIC to use 7. Continue with the rest of the setup instructions Now... if the NIC selection menu simply showed the status (if/when available), then the above would be null-and-void... the field engineer would know immediately which NIC to select from the menu. ASIDE: Maybe making-bold is not the best solution. Perhaps -- if room can be made -- we should simply add a "status" column. Or... perhaps we do both (make bold the active interfaces AND add a column with the status). I like the latter, as it means I should theoretically get less calls from L-Users (I kid). ^_^ -- Cheers, Devin Teske -> CONTACT INFORMATION <- Business Solutions Consultant II FIS - fisglobal.com 510-735-5650 Mobile 510-621-2038 Office 510-621-2020 Office Fax 909-477-4578 Home/Fax devin.teske@fisglobal.com -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy. -> END TRANSMISSION <- From owner-freebsd-sysinstall@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 26 03:05:32 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 249DC106566C for ; Wed, 26 May 2010 03:05:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gy0-f182.google.com (mail-gy0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2FED8FC15 for ; Wed, 26 May 2010 03:05:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gyh20 with SMTP id 20so3258172gyh.13 for ; Tue, 25 May 2010 20:05:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=J8kKIqPTTd4pgPr/gOY8PDRH/CCSB5L4mqsXljoOvdA=; b=CDO7/7wbVu/33MgpD/yXCK2+AS2jPYxmsTXmtneYe3r2W3NBADF5ZlVJDBOS8AePSq UmVpkVYWlaRPcFVM7y2B3WDbqMDOf3YsTVr0KKK+cEhfHpIWXHtv6cRaJf4FJsQ6Ai6O +P3A0E7C742UFYikfWyxFvmx0WUZYDwBlD5BQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=KUrHmlrPKOd6YvskBb4tb1loh2YBkBMFFrb5n7JH01b7Ci6NaJEZv9WSfO+/JVOnXC HE17YM2gYO4lqtv+9HavKjEt27klGTnQEeTPlCJ6mU9g4w43fiVJuQUyJ3WKlQ5+Z+sV 2jEHTQxXrv+uX+aiSdKJbIIt/zLdEZ6Od+Vn4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.183.19 with SMTP id ce19mr6448656ibb.35.1274842060122; Tue, 25 May 2010 19:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.161.135 with HTTP; Tue, 25 May 2010 19:47:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1274807667.6175.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1274807667.6175.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 10:47:40 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: BafsXbhXWyAOqzhGMuQAWRMgTEw Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Devin Teske Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 May 2010 03:15:48 +0000 Cc: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NIC Selection Menu X-BeenThere: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Sysinstall Work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 03:05:32 -0000 On 26 May 2010 01:14, Devin Teske wrote: > Solution: Sysinstall could "bold" the NIC entry in the selection menu if > (and only-if) [a] it is able to properly probe the status of said NIC > and [b] said status indicates that a cable is plugged into the > interface. Reporting/updating link status isn't a bad idea. Doing it through bold is. There's no guarantee that the terminal you're currently using will have support for bold characters or the current font in use will make bold even remotely distinguishable. Having some textual "link up", or a link status column, that may work. But do all devices reliably report link status? Having a sysinstall option to list the current NICs and their IP/IPv6 addresses may also help. The user could then "down" an interface. 2c, (I can't work on code for another few weeks, sorry, so this is 2c of non-code-commentary.) Adrian From owner-freebsd-sysinstall@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 27 08:27:13 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65AB81065673 for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 08:27:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tobier@tobier.se) Received: from mailout2.surf-town.net (mailout2.surf-town.net [212.97.132.197]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2918F8FC0C for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 08:27:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (mailout2 [127.0.0.1]) by mailout2.surf-town.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785CA9A for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 10:27:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from squirrel-webmail.surftown.com (unknown [212.97.133.1]) by mailout2.surf-town.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C71096 for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 10:27:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 130.237.226.60 (SquirrelMail authenticated user tobier@tobier.se) by squirrel-webmail.surftown.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 10:27:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 10:27:06 +0200 (CEST) From: "Tobias Eriksson" To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 27 May 2010 11:24:07 +0000 Subject: Sysinstall for just installing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: tobier@tobier.se List-Id: Sysinstall Work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 08:27:13 -0000 I've been thinking a bit about sysinstall. What do we really want to do with it? See, the way I use sysinstall is just to install my system, I never use it after an install, so to me it seems pointless having it on there after I have my system up and going. Of course this is just me, maybe many out there use sysinstall daily. What I'm getting at is that maybe sysinstall should be more tailored to just installing: make it more straightforward to the user. Start with setting up the keyboard and language, then maybe the NIC menu as described in earlier posts, and then move on to partitioning and package installing. Is it just me that thinks like this, or do you have similar thoughts? -- Tobias From owner-freebsd-sysinstall@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 27 16:57:38 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A509106566C for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 16:57:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bruce@cran.org.uk) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f09:679::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 307548FC0A for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 16:57:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B075B8FAD; Thu, 27 May 2010 16:57:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on muon.cran.org.uk X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.8 required=8.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_DYNAMIC autolearn=no version=3.2.5 Received: from [192.168.1.140] (87-194-158-129.bethere.co.uk [87.194.158.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Thu, 27 May 2010 16:57:36 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4BFEA475.3090607@cran.org.uk> Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:57:25 +0100 From: Bruce Cran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tobier@tobier.se References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 27 May 2010 17:06:52 +0000 Cc: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall for just installing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Sysinstall Work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 16:57:38 -0000 On 27/05/2010 09:27, Tobias Eriksson wrote: > I've been thinking a bit about sysinstall. > What do we really want to do with it? > See, the way I use sysinstall is just to install my system, I never use it > after an install, so to me it seems pointless having it on there after I > have my system up and going. Of course this is just me, maybe many out > there use sysinstall daily. > > What I'm getting at is that maybe sysinstall should be more tailored to > just installing: make it more straightforward to the user. Start with > setting up the keyboard and language, then maybe the NIC menu as described > in earlier posts, and then move on to partitioning and package installing. > > Is it just me that thinks like this, or do you have similar thoughts? > It seems to be recommended to only use it for installing, and to use other tools for post-configuration: for example the partitioning section has been copied out into usr.sbin/sade. It should definitely be more straightforward, without the baffling list of options and settings: for example I had a discussion with someone recently who rightly thought that users shouldn't have to go into the FixIt menu when they've already loaded the LiveFS CD - it should be more or less automatic. Whether this gets fixed is another matter: apparently one of the discussions at BSDCan was about having the PC-BSD installer be the primary method for installing 9.0, with FreeBSD's sysinstall being available if users need it. -- Bruce Cran From owner-freebsd-sysinstall@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 27 20:31:46 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A525C1065670 for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 20:31:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tobier@tobier.se) Received: from mailout2.surf-town.net (mailout2.surf-town.net [212.97.132.197]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9AC8FC1B for ; Thu, 27 May 2010 20:31:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (mailout2 [127.0.0.1]) by mailout2.surf-town.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5382F170; Thu, 27 May 2010 22:31:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from squirrel-webmail.surftown.com (unknown [212.97.133.1]) by mailout2.surf-town.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1D9715E; Thu, 27 May 2010 22:31:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 85.224.157.30 (SquirrelMail authenticated user tobier@tobier.se) by squirrel-webmail.surftown.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 May 2010 22:31:39 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5255c46819fb6da0b7cba055a9990079.squirrel@squirrel-webmail.surftown.com> In-Reply-To: <4BFEA475.3090607@cran.org.uk> References: <4BFEA475.3090607@cran.org.uk> Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 22:31:39 +0200 (CEST) From: "Tobias Eriksson" To: "Bruce Cran" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:35:19 +0000 Cc: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sysinstall for just installing? X-BeenThere: freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: tobier@tobier.se List-Id: Sysinstall Work List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:31:46 -0000 > On 27/05/2010 09:27, Tobias Eriksson wrote: >> I've been thinking a bit about sysinstall. >> What do we really want to do with it? >> See, the way I use sysinstall is just to install my system, I never use >> it >> after an install, so to me it seems pointless having it on there after I >> have my system up and going. Of course this is just me, maybe many out >> there use sysinstall daily. >> >> What I'm getting at is that maybe sysinstall should be more tailored to >> just installing: make it more straightforward to the user. Start with >> setting up the keyboard and language, then maybe the NIC menu as >> described >> in earlier posts, and then move on to partitioning and package >> installing. >> >> Is it just me that thinks like this, or do you have similar thoughts? >> > > It seems to be recommended to only use it for installing, and to use > other tools for post-configuration: for example the partitioning section > has been copied out into usr.sbin/sade. It should definitely be more > straightforward, without the baffling list of options and settings: for > example I had a discussion with someone recently who rightly thought > that users shouldn't have to go into the FixIt menu when they've already > loaded the LiveFS CD - it should be more or less automatic. > > Whether this gets fixed is another matter: apparently one of the > discussions at BSDCan was about having the PC-BSD installer be the > primary method for installing 9.0, with FreeBSD's sysinstall being > available if users need it. > > -- > Bruce Cran > Using the PC-BSD installer would be an option. However, if sysinstall would still be in the system, I would like to have the changes we discussed to be incorporated. Looks like I could have myself a project this summer :)