From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Sep 4 08:37:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD06D106564A for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 08:37:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@acm.org) Received: from mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.199]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D0D8FC14 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 08:37:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-116-103.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.116.103]) by mail18.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p848avYv009198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:36:59 +1000 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p848aueM012900; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:36:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p848atsG012899; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:36:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 18:36:55 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: perryh@pluto.rain.com Message-ID: <20110904083655.GA32801@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <4E5C364D.7070904@freebsd.org> <20110830201357.GB58638@acme.spoerlein.net> <4e5e458a.Un+VK0itRgItvxbf%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <20110831081815.GN2493@over-yonder.net> <4e5f2e26.6PQ5d6F3eauFfAcH%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <4E5F12B6.3090307@FreeBSD.org> <4e5fa001.BTxOKlcJfp7aZ2KE%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <4E5F4807.6070206@FreeBSD.org> <4e62195b.cdaZfeF621ojSqVQ%perryh@pluto.rain.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KsGdsel6WgEHnImy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4e62195b.cdaZfeF621ojSqVQ%perryh@pluto.rain.com> X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Official git export X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 08:37:01 -0000 --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2011-Sep-03 05:11:07 -0700, perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: >A few hundred MB of disk space is nothing. Having to _download_ >a few hundred MB of source code, that one already has, is _not_ >"nothing" unless one has a rather large pipe. If you already have the source code, why would you be downloading it again? Typically, if you keep a local copy of the repo, you would be checking out from it, rather than using csup or similar. >One way to mitigate this would be to provide the ability to >download and install VCS metadata (back-deltas, commit comments, >etc.) for particular files and directories "as needed". Based on the description, I'll take "metadata" to mean the VCS repository itself, rather than VCS-related metadata that is added to a checked-out working directory. Whilst this was fairly easy for CVS, it's not practical for SVN because the metadata is stored per-commit, rather than per-file. > If that >level of granularity is problematic, just splitting the metadata >into 5 groups would help: > > group contents size * > > infrastructure all files directly in /usr/src; and 66 MB > subdirs etc, include, lib, libexec, > release, rescue, share, tools. > > contrib /usr/src/contrib 232 MB > > crypto /usr/src/{crypto,kerberos5,secure} 40 MB > > kernel /usr/src/sys 143 MB > > other /usr/src/{bin,cddl,games,gnu, 50 MB > sbin,usr.bin,usr.sbin} I don't believe this is practical given the way FreeBSD and SVN work. From the SVN perspective, it's not practical to disentagle the content in that way. From a FreeBSD perspective, I don't think it'll work - you can't do much without "infrastructure". "contrib" is referenced from "infrastructure" and "other". "crypto" includes some historic (but not current) references to "contrib". >For that matter, FreeBSD could provide the VCS metadata corresponding >to each release as a separate ISO, so those who need it can obtain >and install it. Those for whom large downloads are a problem could >buy it on CD. Once upon a time, the release CDs did include the CVS tree but it simply became too big. And, since you can checkout any point in history I don't believe having a -release repo CD/DVD adds any real value. You just need a copy of the repo after the relevant release - this can be downloaded via CTM/ftp or csup for CVS and svn can do it's own downloading. My guess is that most people for whom large downloads present a problem know someone who has ready access to the repo and could burn a CD/DVD for them. --=20 Peter Jeremy --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk5jOKcACgkQ/opHv/APuIcOTwCdFANc87hSyPjUpXNl+CckOsn0 lRQAn3K1OGusq36yLZ6q9K0jK/UMt5Rh =6Tci -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --KsGdsel6WgEHnImy-- From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 5 11:26:07 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17AF106566B for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E3E8FC1F for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2011 11:26:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id OAA29236 for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2011 14:26:05 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4E64B1CC.9070205@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 14:26:04 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110705 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: SCHEDULER_STOPPED vs kdb_active X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:26:07 -0000 My simple question is whether kdb_active should be included as another indicator into SCHEDULER_STOPPED? I assume that kdb_active == true is visible only to the debugger code and never to the debugged code. I understand that there is some code that can be executed in both roles, but I am specifically asking about the roles, not the physical code. So, is this true? Assuming that the above is true, it doesn't make sense to not by-pass locking if the debugger infrastructure executes some common code. For example I don't understand why the kdb_active checks in kern_mutex.c are what they are. I think that kdb_active means that the currently running code is the only code that can make forward progress in the system. If we stumble upon a locked spinlock, then it doesn't make any sense to spin on it waiting for Godot. Similarly, I think that mtx_asser() should be a NOP if kdb_active. What important things/scenarios do I overlook? -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 19:44:56 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847A51065676 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 19:44:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pcthegreat@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yi0-f54.google.com (mail-yi0-f54.google.com [209.85.218.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF818FC21 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 19:44:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yib19 with SMTP id 19so271249yib.13 for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:44:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=OfaMeeabjTMXVKdejNOzAZZ/eU1WI83gimYpHYa+Y5o=; b=dZVhG5pRMPNz5zRHw5UASMx/UPAKUAIgEx7GH2gMfegiCH+xKuTjPhwRmMSpgXDO0F BrrOq/2JDQPyshfcqyn3ialjZNKNPJfYetu3kv4JMUyrHn+KTT+irDgMz8KC2MbSVyF3 9G4/SnDyOthwkUgA+y3xjxOjUfD1abKGglcWM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.27.230 with SMTP id w6mr1595315pbg.301.1315511094978; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.63.5 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:44:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110901072708.GL3376@lonesome.com> References: <20110830082328.GB8085@lonesome.com> <20110831002621.GA24932@lonesome.com> <20110901072708.GL3376@lonesome.com> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:44:54 +0400 Message-ID: From: selven To: Mark Linimon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 19:44:56 -0000 To cheer up some mood here :) This is also a win (small win though) http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_games_bsd&num=2 On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 08:44:36PM -0400, Alex Goncharov wrote: > > You may find this discussion useful: > > > > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2011/08/04/msg008743.html > > > > (referencing probably the most appropriate message in the thread.) > > I've gone ahead and put a cross-reference to this into the following > wiki page: > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/PackageSystemsFeatureComparison > > (It turns out that this information already existed in the wiki but > buried in another page, so I created this new page.) > > That page needs to be updated. I welcome any help to do so. > > mcl > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- *Pirabarlen Cheenaramen *| $3|v3n* * L'escalier mobile: +230 49 24 918 email: pcthegeat@gmail.com || god@hackers.mu contact: http://godifiy.me /*memory is like prison*/ (user==selven)?free(user):user=malloc(sizeof(brain)); P Save electricity & disk space. Cat this mail to >/dev/null 2>&1 after use. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 21:53:20 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D13106564A for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 21:53:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 000.fbsd@quip.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1849D8FC16 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 21:53:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCAC328427; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:34:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (ip-86-49-61-235.net.upcbroadband.cz [86.49.61.235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8ACEC28424; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:34:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4E6934E9.306@quip.cz> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 23:34:33 +0200 From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1.19) Gecko/20110420 Lightning/1.0b1 SeaMonkey/2.0.14 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Linimon References: <20110830082328.GB8085@lonesome.com> <20110831002621.GA24932@lonesome.com> <20110901072708.GL3376@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20110901072708.GL3376@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Alex Goncharov Subject: Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:53:20 -0000 Mark Linimon wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 08:44:36PM -0400, Alex Goncharov wrote: >> You may find this discussion useful: >> >> http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2011/08/04/msg008743.html >> >> (referencing probably the most appropriate message in the thread.) > > I've gone ahead and put a cross-reference to this into the following > wiki page: > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/PackageSystemsFeatureComparison > > (It turns out that this information already existed in the wiki but > buried in another page, so I created this new page.) > > That page needs to be updated. I welcome any help to do so. It is really nice starting point for comparision! What you think about adding PC-BSD's PBI to the table? I think it is closely related to FreeBSD project and many potential FreeBSD users will come from PC-BSD camp (or vice versa). You can update the FreeBSD column with this: Config files updating tool NO Startup scripts management tool NO Automatic restart of daemons NO Automatic management of users/groups YES License framework (info/agreement) YES Thank you for your work. Miroslav Lachman From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 22:08:16 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273D51065672 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:08:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEAF68FC1C for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:08:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk4 with SMTP id 4so841232qyk.13 for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:08:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=eYLr0I3oNYijkpG3el6gCZejdkchsQ8yOxgSixNcZbM=; b=ULxkxOq+0hg+EMLleltDsg7XY9LlxKmIlF/zh13o/0JwVrR4DYXD6o1liu/+Xfs6F1 U/I6D38KK/6JFX0gzElfRdooDk7w5M29xheTpVYksLxn14vcO+kGqwGHG0GxV4I/Z5nh TcIkYII+B6KT5tXKhw/PNhevYsIE9ib3uhQOk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.191.202 with SMTP id dn10mr1057543qab.42.1315519694912; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.37.83 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:08:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E6934E9.306@quip.cz> References: <20110830082328.GB8085@lonesome.com> <20110831002621.GA24932@lonesome.com> <20110901072708.GL3376@lonesome.com> <4E6934E9.306@quip.cz> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:08:14 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Mark Linimon , Alex Goncharov , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:08:16 -0000 On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote: ... > You can update the FreeBSD column with this: > > Config files updating tool =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0NO > Startup scripts management tool =A0 =A0 =A0 NO If some of David Teske's administration scripts were in base, then this would be yes and yes(-ish). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 22:10:42 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39242106566B for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:10:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from exprod7og117.obsmtp.com (exprod7og117.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD6978FC0A for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:10:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob117.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTmk9YTYIG7xPIZ0CYaoZqG2qNZU+7/K8@postini.com; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:10:41 PDT Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 14:55:05 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::8002:d3e7:4146:af5f]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 17:55:04 -0400 From: Andrew Duane To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 17:55:02 -0400 Thread-Topic: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure Thread-Index: AQHMbnH2giQRxi0m50uyS6Evz0JaPw== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Subject: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:10:42 -0000 I'm proposing an extension framework for the bootinfo structure used to pas= s information from the bootstrap/loader to the kernel. Although I'm only pr= oposing this for the MIPS bootinfo, it's completely applicable to any of th= em. What I propose is adding an optional platform extension structure: bootinfo= _pext, surrounded by #ifdef BOOTINFO_PEXT struct bootinfo { .... u_int32_t bi_kernend; /* end of kernel space */ u_int32_t bi_envp; /* environment */ u_int32_t bi_modulep; /* preloaded modules */ +#ifdef BOOTINFO_PEXT + struct bootinfo_pext bi_pext; /* platform extensions if d= efined */ +#endif }; Then, any vendor, platform, architecture, family, or developer could define= a new header file (or expand an existing one) with a definition of struct = bootinfo_pext, and a #define BOOTINFO_PEXT. Include the new (or existing) h= eader file in your source, and you have whatever extensions you want, witho= ut affecting other platforms, architectures, families, or developers. The f= ile we're looking to add is sys/mips/cavium/bootinfo_octeon.h: +/* + * Platform bootinfo extensions for OCTEON bootinfo structure + * + * Specific vendors can add their own bootinfo_pext structures + * surrounded by #ifdef OCTEON_VENDOR_XXX + */ + +#include "opt_cvmx.h" /* For OCTEON_VENDOR_XXX definitions */ + +#ifdef OCTEON_VENDOR_JUNIPER +#define BOOTINFO_PEXT /* include bootinfo_pext in main structure = */ +#define BOOTINFO_PEXT_MAGIC 0xCADECADE +#define BOOTINFO_PEXT_VERSION 1 + +struct bootinfo_pext { + int pext_i2cid; + u_int32_t pext_flags; + u_int32_t pext_magic; /* Magic number for octeon= pext */ + u_int32_t pext_version; /* Version of pext */ + u_int16_t pext_uboot_major_rev; + u_int16_t pext_uboot_minor_rev; + u_int16_t pext_loader_major_rev; + u_int16_t pext_loader_minor_rev; +}; +#endif /* OCTEON_VENDOR_JUNIPER */ Reasonable? Unreasonable? Insane? -- Andrew Duane Juniper Networks 978-589-0551 10 Technology Park Dr aduane@juniper.net Westford, MA 01886-3418 From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 22:44:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3AF106564A; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:44:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grehan@freebsd.org) Received: from alto.onthenet.com.au (alto.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.68.12]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996E48FC15; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:44:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dommail.onthenet.com.au (dommail.OntheNet.com.au [203.13.70.57]) by alto.onthenet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98341116AC; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:25:26 +1000 (EST) Received: from vpn2ntap-47744.hq.netapp.com (pos-ext.netapp.com [198.95.226.40]) by dommail.onthenet.com.au (MOS 4.1.10-GA) with ESMTP id AYE93285 (AUTH peterg@ptree32.com.au); Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:25:25 +1000 Message-ID: <4E6940D3.4070801@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 16:25:23 -0600 From: Peter Grehan User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.21) Gecko/20110830 Thunderbird/3.1.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Duane References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:44:01 -0000 > I'm proposing an extension framework for the bootinfo structure used > to pass information from the bootstrap/loader to the kernel. Although > I'm only proposing this for the MIPS bootinfo, it's completely > applicable to any of them. > > What I propose is adding an optional platform extension structure: > bootinfo_pext, surrounded by #ifdef BOOTINFO_PEXT Any reason not to put the vendor bits into another piece of loader metadata ? That seems the extensible way to add additional info from the loader, rather than extending bootinfo (as was the case pre-loader days). later, Peter. From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 8 23:18:31 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5C3106564A; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:18:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8148FC14; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:18:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vxi39 with SMTP id 39so1190128vxi.13 for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 16:18:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wemm.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cOhUiQ1BAxZW7puz/Zf4hMeUm4VfCNH0JWvGJltzhtY=; b=33dii+pMDGyyETakLJH6/X9MHsRkScAOJfgil8QpHtaFFl2ipX0nAPO2u6fe8r7qZp TL5tdht273vrvlBmuvfFqX9WpWWCqTRj3cLH8mv/C+7rcE5EOZ3iyGz1WUTKjvRuZCFN LRI8gP0naeotzHKW16uAd85TXq22XUo2xubSM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.92.233 with SMTP id cp9mr400569vdb.513.1315522099155; Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.185.13 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:48:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E6940D3.4070801@freebsd.org> References: <4E6940D3.4070801@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:48:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: Peter Wemm To: Peter Grehan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Andrew Duane , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 23:18:31 -0000 On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Peter Grehan wrote: >> I'm proposing an extension framework for the bootinfo structure used >> to pass information from the bootstrap/loader to the kernel. Although >> I'm only proposing this for the MIPS bootinfo, it's completely >> applicable to any of them. >> >> What I propose is adding an optional platform extension structure: >> bootinfo_pext, surrounded by #ifdef BOOTINFO_PEXT > > =A0Any reason not to put the vendor bits into another piece of loader met= adata > ? That seems the extensible way to add additional info from the loader, > rather than extending bootinfo (as was the case pre-loader days). > > later, It sounds like they're not using loader, which is probably a reasonable thing for their environment. --=20 Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; KI6FJV "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 "If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution." -- Robert Sewell From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 9 12:10:26 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF999106566B; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 12:10:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from exprod7og124.obsmtp.com (exprod7og124.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E33738FC1E; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 12:10:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob124.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTmoCL6kXCHrgXle/ERquSMJfSE15xhhm@postini.com; Fri, 09 Sep 2011 05:10:25 PDT Received: from p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.24) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 05:09:07 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::8002:d3e7:4146:af5f]) by p-emfe01-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::d0d1:653d:5b91:a123%11]) with mapi; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:09:06 -0400 From: Andrew Duane To: Peter Wemm , Peter Grehan Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:09:06 -0400 Thread-Topic: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure Thread-Index: AcxueWlemEuOTorHT2+anNRGAHt0GQAb6YZA Message-ID: References: <4E6940D3.4070801@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 12:10:26 -0000 That's correct. This is actually part of a larger effort to open up the MIP= S code to a range of new bootstraps. Some bootstraps use the bootinfo facil= ity extensively. It's an easy way to pass some simple information to the ke= rnel without the clutter of metadata and other such things. =A0................................... Andrew Duane Juniper Networks o=A0=A0=A0+1 978 589 0551 m=A0 +1 603-770-7088 aduane@juniper.net =A0 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Wemm [mailto:peter@wemm.org]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 6:48 PM To: Peter Grehan Cc: Andrew Duane; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Peter Grehan wrote: >> I'm proposing an extension framework for the bootinfo structure used >> to pass information from the bootstrap/loader to the kernel. Although >> I'm only proposing this for the MIPS bootinfo, it's completely >> applicable to any of them. >> >> What I propose is adding an optional platform extension structure: >> bootinfo_pext, surrounded by #ifdef BOOTINFO_PEXT > > =A0Any reason not to put the vendor bits into another piece of loader met= adata > ? That seems the extensible way to add additional info from the loader, > rather than extending bootinfo (as was the case pre-loader days). > > later, It sounds like they're not using loader, which is probably a reasonable thing for their environment. --=20 Peter Wemm - peter@wemm.org; peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; KI6FJV "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 "If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution." -- Robert Sewell From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 9 12:22:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F7D106566C; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 12:22:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CF38FC16; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 12:22:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (66.111.2.69.static.nyinternet.net [66.111.2.69]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F96C46B0C; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:22:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CFE628A02E; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:22:39 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:20:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110617; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4E6940D3.4070801@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4E6940D3.4070801@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201109090820.21116.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Fri, 09 Sep 2011 08:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Andrew Duane , Peter Grehan , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 12:22:40 -0000 On Thursday, September 08, 2011 6:25:23 pm Peter Grehan wrote: > > I'm proposing an extension framework for the bootinfo structure used > > to pass information from the bootstrap/loader to the kernel. Although > > I'm only proposing this for the MIPS bootinfo, it's completely > > applicable to any of them. > > > > What I propose is adding an optional platform extension structure: > > bootinfo_pext, surrounded by #ifdef BOOTINFO_PEXT > > Any reason not to put the vendor bits into another piece of loader > metadata ? That seems the extensible way to add additional info from the > loader, rather than extending bootinfo (as was the case pre-loader days). I agree. The metadata appended to the end of the kernel is a better way to manage this. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 9 12:32:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C04106564A; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 12:32:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896CA8FC13; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 12:32:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (66.111.2.69.static.nyinternet.net [66.111.2.69]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3FD1F46B0D; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4DC38A02E; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:32:22 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:32:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110617; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4E6940D3.4070801@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201109090832.20770.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Fri, 09 Sep 2011 08:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Andrew Duane , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Peter Grehan Subject: Re: Soliciting opinions on an extension of the bootinfo structure X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 12:32:23 -0000 On Thursday, September 08, 2011 6:48:19 pm Peter Wemm wrote: > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Peter Grehan wrote: > >> I'm proposing an extension framework for the bootinfo structure used > >> to pass information from the bootstrap/loader to the kernel. Although > >> I'm only proposing this for the MIPS bootinfo, it's completely > >> applicable to any of them. > >> > >> What I propose is adding an optional platform extension structure: > >> bootinfo_pext, surrounded by #ifdef BOOTINFO_PEXT > > > > Any reason not to put the vendor bits into another piece of loader metadata > > ? That seems the extensible way to add additional info from the loader, > > rather than extending bootinfo (as was the case pre-loader days). > > > > later, > > It sounds like they're not using loader, which is probably a > reasonable thing for their environment. That doesn't stop you from adding metadata to the kernel. It is just an array of variable length blobs appended after 'end'. Any boot loader can support adding metadata. -- John Baldwin