From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 01:22:56 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E226106564A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:22:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB228FC12 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (home-nat.elischer.org [67.100.89.137]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2R1Movc006390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:22:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4D8E917F.3010701@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:23:11 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Jeremy References: <20110325082427.GA56170@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <20110325082427.GA56170@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jing Huang Subject: Re: [GSoc] Timeconter Performance Improvements X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:22:56 -0000 On 3/25/11 1:24 AM, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2011-Mar-24 17:00:02 +0800, Jing Huang wrote: >> In this scenario, I plan to use both tsc and shared memory to >> calculate precise time in user mode. The shared memory includes >> system_time, tsc_system_time and factor_tsc-system_time. > This sounds like a reasonable approach to me. Note that once we > implement a shared page, there is probably a variety of other > information we could usefully place on that page. > > SunOS 4.x included a page of shared memory per CPU. This was mapped > as an array (indexed by CPU number) at one address and the page > reflecting the current CPU was additionally mapped at another fixed > address. This allowed a process to both refer to data on its CPU > as well any CPU on the system. > >> We also consider the CPU frequency, because tsc counter is >> related to it. When kernel changes CPU frequency, the shared memory >> should be update subsequently. > Two issues with this, particularly on x86 without invariant TSC: > - looking up the current CPU frequency may not be a cheap operation > - the reported CPU frequency appears to be just an approximate value, > rather than the actual TSC frequency. > > On 2011-Mar-24 21:34:35 +0800, Jing Huang wrote: >> As I know, tsc counter is CPU specific. If the process running on >> a multi-core platform, we must consider switching problem. The one >> way, we can let the kernel to take of this. When switching to another >> CPU, the kernel will reset the shared memory according to the new CPU. > I'm not sure what the cost of managing this page mapping will be. > >> The second way, we can use CPUID instruction to get the info of >> current CPU, which can be executed in user mode ether. At the same >> time, the kernel maintains shared memory for each CPU. When invoke >> gettimeofday, the function will calculate precise time with current >> CPU's shared memory. > This approach suffers from a race condition between the CPUID > instruction and accessing the appropriate shared page - there is the > potential for an interrupt causing the process to be switched to a > different CPU, resulting in an incorrect page being accessed. > The shared page(s) can be in the form of an elf module that is linked with the process at load time. that way you can put cpu-specific code snippets there as well. when using a shared page to modify the TSC value read, one also needs to tempirarily lock the cpu you are on between the time you read the calibration value and the time you read the TSC.. A user process has only limited ability to do that. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 01:38:35 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9AD61065672 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:38:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jessefrgsmith@yahoo.ca) Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (nm27.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [98.139.52.224]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 639BF8FC0C for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:38:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.52.192] by nm27.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 01:24:36 -0000 Received: from [98.139.52.138] by tm5.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 01:24:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1021.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 01:24:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 755398.18431.bm@omp1021.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 34243 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2011 01:24:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:From:To:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1IoJ9LyE/Zzfu1qHuWWEPfwR+0LQOdeqmXZU0xbStp4JRdW5fTAmvyNR1xZMgrdoP4ryQ19l92+EaL+PNOZWwyDHtPKnIIpaxoM5fMpAMoYg0mqzQqXDKyCI0brCZND9yz3HeIi9/fLM4W7Zu3BWhTW//tM5R2xiROMBQwo6KzE= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.ca; s=s1024; t=1301189076; bh=5JegRqO2kAQ3o6P4Gt0Qy7zYbuPjvkGVX5N4ZKLQYvA=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:From:To:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jVREsY0r8+YjAZkcceZerm1GJsJrSkp0EEcAelPjkyxzJMGgxiqqdyAC8udbYvy3Rgg7khIbG4DiA5AJ8J47djcUe45+cnsfH4RkSmORywRS/tGYxH2cx+Xq9DQYG2os1amm+3Gy2kXzU/nRGqArIoKNew8jeYxRFG8/kfpx0Kg= Received: from [192.168.0.104] (jessefrgsmith@24.137.101.247 with plain) by smtp138.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2011 18:24:35 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: NPm1JouswBClX_uJxHJINmnKUpROdMKvLL0- X-YMail-OSG: kXXJV54VM1m7i2IkxJqhtxE8eE827QHCzSFpXf54CNGdElq VXe5Fs7lj9czZYHj_rjEGfxcxjGql1XzHspPZVKeTWsBberbdZOPlxlUJs4q BDX4A5PHVFNrmZW.D3qtWYHW4qU.frcpET90_3vFhue90juCGE0vHGzAmHJB loXo9b10I8xabLGLZu2fNizp99FFthIbCdVILx3UU0EBoDa1lBix06cPswCS ln3YfnbjpAQDC_pHNNOyC6Iw45.opgpiClKguKBhBOIcBUXu16vi2MVLtRsP 9KXAix9oMpSO41MzXKhR1F5IpW2JbCEjCxnzO1tcntNvbsbgbKg44kpX5u.w Fcf7OhJwMdcc93itMJrSUrYl6Ji0- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: Jesse Smith To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 22:23:56 -0300 Message-ID: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Prebind from OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:38:36 -0000 Hello FreeBSDers, I'm interested in working on the "Port prebind from OpenBSD" project mentioned on the FreeBSD Ideas page. ( http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#head-d28cdd95ca1755d5afe63d653cb4926d4bdc99de ) There isn't much to go on from the project description and I'm curious what FreeBSD devs are looking for specifically. For example, should the entire ldconfig program be ported from OpenBSD (it looks like it's close enough to FreeBSD's to make that suitable), or should just the prebind code be merged into FreeBSD's ldcnfig? Once the project is complete, who should the work be submitted to? Has anyone else worked on this and made any progress? Thanks, Jesse From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 01:41:53 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4CC1106566C for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:41:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98EC68FC0A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:41:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (home-nat.elischer.org [67.100.89.137]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2R1flIp006441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:41:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4D8E95F0.4080801@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:42:08 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Stone References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: kgdb patches for newer versions of gdb X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 01:41:53 -0000 On 3/24/11 8:46 AM, Ryan Stone wrote: > At work we cross-compile several kld modules. They just upgraded to > gcc 4.5, but gdb 6.X is not compatible with the debug symbols produced > by gcc 4.5. Has anybody ever tried merging kgdb into a newer gdb > version? Anybody have patches that they can share? if you get anywhere on this let us know.. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 18:29:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8597106564A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:29:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12CE8FC0A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:29:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2RITADW016869 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 11:29:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2RFcZm2089495 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:38:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:38:35 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110327153835.GA87420@albert.catwhisker.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: Subject: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:29:11 -0000 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent changes to /usr/share/zoneinfo have reminded me that my regular updates to my FreeBSD machines via source update /usr/share/zoneinfo, but /etc/localtime remains a copy of whatever was in /usr/share/zoneinfo for the selected zone at the time tzsetup(8) was last run -- and I certainly don't run tzsetup as often as I update my sources (nor would I want to). And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a symlink, I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up scripts. I believe that it would be appropriate to have a facility to update /etc/localtime if the file to which it is supposed to correspond in /usr/share/zoneinfo (now) differs. Even if tzsetup is invoked with the -s flag and having the desired zoneinfo file specified on the command-line, it goes into full-screen mode and requests confirmation. Further, if the confirmation is given, it unconditionally overwrites /etc/localtime. It would (in principle) be possible to teach mergemaster(8) how to do this (possibly by including a cookie in ~/.mergemasterrc or /etc/mergemaster.rc to tell it what the "reference" zoneinfo pathname is), but this type of approach seems sufficiently different from (the bulk of?) what mergemaster does currently that I'm unconvinced that this is reasonable, let alone ideal. So it seems to me that requirements would be: * The content of /etc/localtime must provide the appropriate "zoneinfo" information, even when /usr/share/zoneinfo/* has been modified (or shortly thereafter, in concert with "make installworld"). * The content of /etc/localtime must be available when the only file system mounted is the root file system (and prior to any attempt to start any services (ref. {,/usr/local}/etc/rc.d)). * The process must be amenable to automation; to that end, it must be possible to perform it without requiring confirmation, and it must be doable from a command-line. * /etc/localtime should not be modified unless the content prior to modification differs from the selected specification in /usr/share/zoneinfo. * The process should not add unnecessary complexity to existing tools and procedures. =20 As a crude, brute-force hack, what I did (yesterday) was: * Create a symlink (which I called "/etc/tz") pointing to an appropriate zoneinfo entry. * Augment the commands I run on successful completion of "make installkernel" (from src/UPDATING): mergemaster -p make installworld mergemaster -i make delete-old by appending cmp -s /etc/tz /etc/localtime || cp -p /etc/tz /etc/localtime to the set. While I make no claim as to elegance, I believe it meets the requirements I listed. Of course, another approach -- which is likely to be fairly popular -- would be to run the machine on UTC, and let folks who want to care about TZ stuff set their own personal TZ environment variables. :-} Still, even that approach leads to the existence of /etc/localtime as being somewhat of an "attractive nuisance" (in that if it exists, it is likely to lead to a degree of mischief). Thoughts? Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk2PWfoACgkQmprOCmdXAD1xMQCfb2DwphkVnGIX6+9sTeIp+skA jBsAn0+92sQPOoM0UD0eKFBdTt7/gZuv =1hFb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 19:54:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642D3106564A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:54:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFD48FC15 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:54:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0CA146B43; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:54:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:54:18 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Jesse Smith In-Reply-To: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> Message-ID: References: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Prebind from OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:54:19 -0000 On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jesse Smith wrote: > I'm interested in working on the "Port prebind from OpenBSD" project > mentioned on the FreeBSD Ideas page. ( > http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#head-d28cdd95ca1755d5afe63d653cb4926d4bdc99de > ) > > There isn't much to go on from the project description and I'm curious what > FreeBSD devs are looking for specifically. For example, should the entire > ldconfig program be ported from OpenBSD (it looks like it's close enough to > FreeBSD's to make that suitable), or should just the prebind code be merged > into FreeBSD's ldcnfig? > > Once the project is complete, who should the work be submitted to? Has > anyone else worked on this and made any progress? Hi Jesse: I think the intent of the ideas list entry is more a research project than a direct-to-commit project: the question is whether prebinding of some sort would observably help performance for important FreeBSD applications or, for example, the boot process. If so, then certainly the OpenBSD prebinding code is a possible model -- Mac OS X also has prebinding, of course, and it's done quite differently (and probably less reusably from our perspective as they use Mach-O rather than ELF); however, there might be interesting ideas as well. I think therefore I'd structure a project along the following lines: first, you want to establish to what extent synchronous waiting on linkage at run-time is a significant problem. It could be that some combination of hwpmc and DTrace would be the right tools for this. I'd especially pay attention to boot time, since we know that quite a lot of executing takes place then as part of rc.d. I'd also investigate large applications like Firefox, Chrome, KDE, Gnome, etc. KDE already integrates prebinding tricks in its design, but I don't think the others do. Next, I'd dig a bit more into the areas where it's hurting performance -- can you add up all the time spent waiting and cut 10 seconds from boot, or 5 seconds from Firefox startup? Or is the best win going to be .2 seconds in Firefox? Does the OpenBSD optimisation actually address the problem we're experiencing? Perhaps perform some experiments with prebinding-like behaviour, working up to an implementation. It's worth remembering that prebinding comes with some baggage as well, of course. Perhaps less relevant in the world of 64-bit address spaces, but there are some design trade-offs in this department... Robert From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 19:56:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725181065673 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:56:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@fubar.geek.nz) Received: from out3.smtp.messagingengine.com (out3.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F938FC1F for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:56:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7BF208B5 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:37:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:37:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=messagingengine.com; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=tIlYOtGh9EnmHopoBtoHly+xHFQ=; b=E3F344V09iy5Q1XD/3JuKB6aSR6Z+9WDdcFOROyCS1uLL4pI7eytE+0lBBjQoajbxplMfCwumQOyVYgnrKq7sM//1qgRgufo0WFUWkghpYWyT+pFfyIosqHjYfJmu7PDdlm4X1EatBFY8wS8F2YjiKuv48QLic+P5/CQKwuZ85I= X-Sasl-enc: Bc1TvyYkkb6yk1RJIXb9DYUc/6Cs8glgTbgPD9SJ6mES 1301254629 Received: from localhost (222-154-136-33.jetstream.xtra.co.nz [222.154.136.33]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 28CBF44809B for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:36:57 +1300 From: Andrew Turner To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110328083657.35507caf@fubar.geek.nz> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.22.1; i386-portbld-freebsd8.0) X-Pirate: Arrrr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Unsigned wchar_t X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:56:25 -0000 Hello hackers@ I'm working on getting FreeBSD working with the ARM EABI. As part of this the Procedure Call Standard for the ARM Architecture (AAPCS) defines wchar_t as an unsigned int. Looking at sys/sys/_types.h rune_t, wchar_t and wint_t are of type __ct_rune_t which is an int. Furthermore as per the comment above the typedef rune_t must be signed to hold EOF of -1 and wchar_t must be the same type as rune_t. Because wchar_t is defined as an unsigned int would there be any issues with moving the typedef for __wchar_t to and changing it from __ct_rune_t to int with the exception of the ARM EABI case? Along with this WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX are defined both in and . I would like to remove the copy from wchar.h and add an include to machine/_stdint.h. Would there be any problems with either of these or is there a better place to put the __wchar_t typedef and define WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX? Andrew From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 19:56:55 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33EA106566C for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:56:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED678FC1A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:56:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2020946B42; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:56:55 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Dudinskyi Olexandr In-Reply-To: <000501cbeace$9008a7c0$b019f740$@com> Message-ID: References: <000501cbeace$9008a7c0$b019f740$@com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="621616949-352308497-1301255815=:50590" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GSoC X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:56:55 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --621616949-352308497-1301255815=:50590 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Dudinskyi Olexandr wrote: > My name is Dudinskyi Oleksandr. I am a student of National aviation > university, Ukraine. I want to participate in GSoC 2011 with your > organization. > > My project: Disk device error counters, iostat –e. > > I thing this project is very necessary in the FreeBSD system. Now I make a > plan to develop this project. > > What you can say about the idea of ​​my project? And what about the favor of > this project? > > My mentor: Andriy Gapon. Hi Dudinskyi: It's a little hard to tell from your description exactly what it is you are proposing to do. Could you flesh out the idea some for us, so that we can give you feedback? What is the nature of the problem you want to solve? What software changes do you anticipate making? How will you test your changes? Robert --621616949-352308497-1301255815=:50590-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 20:04:12 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2B81065675; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:04:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from mail.zoral.com.ua (mx0.zoral.com.ua [91.193.166.200]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D898FC12; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:04:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (root@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua [10.1.1.148]) by mail.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id p2RK47Qf027561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:04:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2RK47FL068489; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:04:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2RK47wY068488; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:04:07 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:04:07 +0300 From: Kostik Belousov To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20110327200407.GL78089@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="erUiqtqS2BgH8+NE" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.2 at skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on skuns.kiev.zoral.com.ua Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jesse Smith Subject: Re: Prebind from OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:04:12 -0000 --erUiqtqS2BgH8+NE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 08:54:18PM +0100, Robert Watson wrote: > On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jesse Smith wrote: >=20 > >I'm interested in working on the "Port prebind from OpenBSD" project=20 > >mentioned on the FreeBSD Ideas page. (=20 > >http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#head-d28cdd95ca1755d5afe63d653cb4926d4= bdc99de=20 > >) > > > >There isn't much to go on from the project description and I'm curious= =20 > >what FreeBSD devs are looking for specifically. For example, should the= =20 > >entire ldconfig program be ported from OpenBSD (it looks like it's close= =20 > >enough to FreeBSD's to make that suitable), or should just the prebind= =20 > >code be merged into FreeBSD's ldcnfig? > > > >Once the project is complete, who should the work be submitted to? Has= =20 > >anyone else worked on this and made any progress? >=20 > Hi Jesse: >=20 > I think the intent of the ideas list entry is more a research project tha= n=20 > a direct-to-commit project: the question is whether prebinding of some so= rt=20 > would observably help performance for important FreeBSD applications or,= =20 > for example, the boot process. If so, then certainly the OpenBSD=20 > prebinding code is a possible model -- Mac OS X also has prebinding, of= =20 > course, and it's done quite differently (and probably less reusably from= =20 > our perspective as they use Mach-O rather than ELF); however, there might= =20 > be interesting ideas as well. >=20 > I think therefore I'd structure a project along the following lines: firs= t,=20 > you want to establish to what extent synchronous waiting on linkage at=20 > run-time is a significant problem. It could be that some combination of= =20 > hwpmc and DTrace would be the right tools for this. I'd especially pay= =20 > attention to boot time, since we know that quite a lot of executing takes= =20 > place then as part of rc.d. I'd also investigate large applications like= =20 > Firefox, Chrome, KDE, Gnome, etc. KDE already integrates prebinding tric= ks=20 > in its design, but I don't think the others do. >=20 > Next, I'd dig a bit more into the areas where it's hurting performance --= =20 > can you add up all the time spent waiting and cut 10 seconds from boot, o= r=20 > 5 seconds from Firefox startup? Or is the best win going to be .2 second= s=20 > in Firefox? Does the OpenBSD optimisation actually address the problem= =20 > we're experiencing? Perhaps perform some experiments with prebinding-lik= e=20 > behaviour, working up to an implementation. >=20 > It's worth remembering that prebinding comes with some baggage as well, o= f=20 > course. Perhaps less relevant in the world of 64-bit address spaces, but= =20 > there are some design trade-offs in this department... The most serious issue with prebind is a consistency. It is very easy to get prebind data out of date, and this is esp. easy in the FreeBSD where buildworld and source port upgrades are everyday activity. Before this goes much further, yes, we need a benchmarks that demonstrate that system spends significant time in the symbol resolution for often started images [*], and second, we need to have a workable model for source upgrades. * - so that Firefox, OpenOffice etc do not qualify, IMHO. --erUiqtqS2BgH8+NE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk2PmDcACgkQC3+MBN1Mb4gc6ACfT4DP0q6jrC2iOywJW4A3qxtw Wr8AoLdAg9q7mbr6jnh8Y+7Vo/QUVwc6 =nPgl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --erUiqtqS2BgH8+NE-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 20:11:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975CA1065670 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:11:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F10B8FC0A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.2.112] (host86-147-11-178.range86-147.btcentralplus.com [86.147.11.178]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2DF3846B43; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Robert N. M. Watson" In-Reply-To: <20110327200407.GL78089@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:11:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> <20110327200407.GL78089@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> To: Kostik Belousov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jesse Smith Subject: Re: Prebind from OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:11:39 -0000 On 27 Mar 2011, at 21:04, Kostik Belousov wrote: > The most serious issue with prebind is a consistency. > It is very easy to get prebind data out of date, and this is > esp. easy in the FreeBSD where buildworld and source port upgrades > are everyday activity. >=20 > Before this goes much further, yes, we need a benchmarks that = demonstrate > that system spends significant time in the symbol resolution for often > started images [*], and second, we need to have a workable model for = source > upgrades. >=20 > * - so that Firefox, OpenOffice etc do not qualify, IMHO. As I recall, Apple actually does prebinding/etc only for a small set of = commonly used libraries -- their libSystem, and then a dynamically = determined set of other libraries. Their model puts the libraries into a = common shared memory segment that can then be mapped at the same address = for all dynamically linked processes in the same chroot. This amortised = not only the cost of linking, but also the cost of managing memory = mappings (I believe it's a shared submap, but my VM terminology is ... = ageing). The downside to their approach is that it requires special = kernel support, and probably encodes things that we would prefer not to. However, you could imagine a daemon providing a similar service, in = which a file descriptor is made available via a UNIX domain socket to = instanced of rtld around the system, which can consistently map it in = the same place on each exec. This would also give us an upgrade model = that might work better -- the daemon actually prepares the contents of = that memory and makes them independent from on-disk storage: when an = upgrade is done, you kick the daemon to introduce a new shared memory = object, closing the previous one, which causes it to be GC'd when all = outstanding processes have exited. Robert= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 20:22:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3691065670 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:22:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan@fafoe.narf.at) Received: from fep22.mx.upcmail.net (fep22.mx.upcmail.net [62.179.121.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4CEA8FC08 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:22:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from edge02.upcmail.net ([192.168.13.237]) by viefep20-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.8.01.02.02 201-2260-120-106-20100312) with ESMTP id <20110327200734.JMHY23900.viefep20-int.chello.at@edge02.upcmail.net>; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:07:34 +0200 Received: from mole.fafoe.narf.at ([213.47.85.26]) by edge02.upcmail.net with edge id QL7X1g01G0a5KZh02L7Y2P; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:07:34 +0200 X-SourceIP: 213.47.85.26 Received: by mole.fafoe.narf.at (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2D4586D449; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:07:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:07:30 +0200 From: Stefan Farfeleder To: Andrew Turner Message-ID: <20110327200729.GD2651@mole.fafoe.narf.at> References: <20110328083657.35507caf@fubar.geek.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110328083657.35507caf@fubar.geek.nz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=kR4HTYXl3FXdRAFjS5RpcnDbDNViz/VYMWXR75RtSM0= c=1 sm=0 a=wom5GMh1gUkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=Gaqorc8aOXfLKk6E3KMA:9 a=trd_ArCYm0Nqc5ymy0uCi2sgijoA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unsigned wchar_t X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:22:50 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 08:36:57AM +1300, Andrew Turner wrote: > Along with this WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX are defined both in > and . I would like to remove the copy from wchar.h > and add an include to machine/_stdint.h. > > Would there be any problems with either of these or is there a better > place to put the __wchar_t typedef and define WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX? The C standard specifies that both and shall define WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX. You cannot simply include from because the former contains a lot of other macros. Stefan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 20:27:45 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E44811065674 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:27:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joerg@britannica.bec.de) Received: from mo-p00-ob6.rzone.de (mo-p00-ob6.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:53f0::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CEA08FC17 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:27:45 +0000 (UTC) X-RZG-AUTH: :JiIXek6mfvEEUpFQdo7Fj1/zg48CFjWjQv0cW+St/nW/afgnrylsiW20cSl/o2Q= X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from britannica.bec.de (ip-109-45-32-235.web.vodafone.de [109.45.32.235]) by post.strato.de (jimi mo40) (RZmta 25.8) with (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted) ESMTPA id L0254en2RJ79RA for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:27:42 +0200 (MEST) Received: by britannica.bec.de (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:27:38 +0200 Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:27:38 +0200 From: Joerg Sonnenberger To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110327202738.GB30694@britannica.bec.de> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20110328083657.35507caf@fubar.geek.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110328083657.35507caf@fubar.geek.nz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Subject: Re: Unsigned wchar_t X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:27:46 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 08:36:57AM +1300, Andrew Turner wrote: > Hello hackers@ > > I'm working on getting FreeBSD working with the ARM EABI. As part of > this the Procedure Call Standard for the ARM Architecture (AAPCS) > defines wchar_t as an unsigned int. Does someone at ARM actually get paid to define ABIs that are different from what everyone else is doing? Didn't we learn anything from the problems of char vs signed char vs unsigned char? Joerg From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 20:31:28 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6090106566C for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:31:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 65-241-43-5.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01D5153CBA; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:31:22 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4D8F9E9A.50604@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:31:22 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110326 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Wolfskill References: <20110327153835.GA87420@albert.catwhisker.org> In-Reply-To: <20110327153835.GA87420@albert.catwhisker.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:31:28 -0000 On 03/27/2011 08:38, David Wolfskill wrote: > It would (in principle) be possible to teach mergemaster(8) how to > do this (possibly by including a cookie in ~/.mergemasterrc or > /etc/mergemaster.rc to tell it what the "reference" zoneinfo pathname > is), but this type of approach seems sufficiently different from > (the bulk of?) what mergemaster does currently that I'm unconvinced > that this is reasonable, let alone ideal. Yeah, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about this. :) > So it seems to me that requirements would be: > * The content of /etc/localtime must provide the appropriate > "zoneinfo" information, even when/usr/share/zoneinfo/* has been > modified (or shortly thereafter, in concert with "make installworld"). This is more along the lines of something that would be easy to work with in mergemaster. If I can tell what file in /usr/share/zoneinfo to compare /etc/localtime to (ideally with fully path), I'm happy to provide a mechanism in mergemaster to make sure it stays up to date. Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 20:43:59 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3DF1065670 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:43:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jessefrgsmith@yahoo.ca) Received: from nm17-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm17-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.157]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B92178FC08 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:43:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.212.144] by nm17.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 20:30:03 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.206] by tm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 20:30:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2011 20:30:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 556425.77293.bm@omp1015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 45231 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2011 20:30:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=qNtced32vsRHWx86G3C7Td/9V5bVEhFVWUr5bR8KrFXgYhCiVdhQ+ju325FjOVe00ECAAy3qn0M0CyYvavERECr46TaWwRaxKLkypm78I3ZfJR8c5NKFqwsz7kZfWQAx2VkT3WIZ/jB6Ptkk7H3cR9UOtRodn6umFFsqKy2Q3pg= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.ca; s=s1024; t=1301257802; bh=ly7tNKoC7St0eGpmaBHgWEP9aJuMWbIN4lDvJz2uNCw=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version:X-Mailer:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AWFSdvby4Lg4PlyU6dcpqTZoolonwdXNyaKiXPKCPO2L+X27XDCizxPPeLfXoqeW0I+uggSPvDpeVaBtHZCiBcmZdHUneUzUwTwEXbPgYIyYzJ5nv+KEoYaYqns9yh7whvzzjFX5FhrrAsi+VDeBVN/eI2sb8n1NlC7AEuAPW2M= Received: from [192.168.0.104] (jessefrgsmith@24.137.101.247 with plain) by smtp134.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2011 13:30:01 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: NPm1JouswBClX_uJxHJINmnKUpROdMKvLL0- X-YMail-OSG: m.c4FHkVM1lAvo462sz02spOXCws7Itmsi4K5pz4qkXk.ei tE8OPENI1P2XUVck6_rwF3XxtLRU38BB9GKEUJHsrg1.jmQXh8DcYf7jIAc9 sh1hqXd.3uV9kq4trgALxddN1A1M2laduaFDH23fGh6ow800C7DgX4e3ps.r vt9KjNEneo0RLZbNKvBiBChSPk8soI2EUSK8YsvJXi2J.0KvF9oGJh06EJgp Fmfw.F8YSc.nkR269qEGsLzahublF5CE8YwKqIrxNXPetQIrnnMH56yA11Fd WgJCxjUn.JldwOBW9Lp0h8EkmRS4dm5VVXbDnvH6oTx7.zp095WLeB4ZXRBm Oe9Bwr2N_AO9hZklLxvZsq0VNIiB7dhIsL41jX670odBkLg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: Jesse Smith To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: References: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:29:20 -0300 Message-ID: <1301257760.2321.11.camel@hp-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.28.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Prebind from OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:43:59 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Robert Watson To: Jesse Smith Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Prebind from OpenBSD Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:54:18 +0100 (BST) On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Jesse Smith wrote: > I'm interested in working on the "Port prebind from OpenBSD" project > mentioned on the FreeBSD Ideas page. ( > http://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#head-d28cdd95ca1755d5afe63d653cb4926d4bdc99de > ) > > There isn't much to go on from the project description and I'm curious what > FreeBSD devs are looking for specifically. For example, should the entire > ldconfig program be ported from OpenBSD (it looks like it's close enough to > FreeBSD's to make that suitable), or should just the prebind code be merged > into FreeBSD's ldcnfig? > > Once the project is complete, who should the work be submitted to? Has > anyone else worked on this and made any progress? Hi Jesse: I think the intent of the ideas list entry is more a research project than a direct-to-commit project: the question is whether prebinding of some sort would observably help performance for important FreeBSD applications or, for example, the boot process. If so, then certainly the OpenBSD prebinding code is a possible model -- Mac OS X also has prebinding, of course, and it's done quite differently (and probably less reusably from our perspective as they use Mach-O rather than ELF); however, there might be interesting ideas as well. I think therefore I'd structure a project along the following lines: first, you want to establish to what extent synchronous waiting on linkage at run-time is a significant problem. It could be that some combination of hwpmc and DTrace would be the right tools for this. I'd especially pay attention to boot time, since we know that quite a lot of executing takes place then as part of rc.d. I'd also investigate large applications like Firefox, Chrome, KDE, Gnome, etc. KDE already integrates prebinding tricks in its design, but I don't think the others do. Next, I'd dig a bit more into the areas where it's hurting performance -- can you add up all the time spent waiting and cut 10 seconds from boot, or 5 seconds from Firefox startup? Or is the best win going to be .2 seconds in Firefox? Does the OpenBSD optimisation actually address the problem we're experiencing? Perhaps perform some experiments with prebinding-like behaviour, working up to an implementation. It's worth remembering that prebinding comes with some baggage as well, of course. Perhaps less relevant in the world of 64-bit address spaces, but there are some design trade-offs in this department... Robert Robert, Thanks very much for the reply. I had thought this was a project/port that was in progress, rather than something waiting on research. Do you know if that's also the case with other projects on the Ideas list? A lot of them don't have many details or contact information associated with them. I'm especially interested in the OpenBSD xlint port. I appreciate you time, Jesse From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 21:33:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7A6106564A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:33:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from thought.org (plato.thought.org [209.180.213.209]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6401D8FC1A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:33:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by thought.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 57895E806C2; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 14:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 14:17:53 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: Hackers Mailing List Message-ID: <20110327211753.GA13762@thought.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. X-Of_Interest: With 24++ years of service to the Unix community. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: Subject: [kline@thought.org: keyboard click driver:: User-side.] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:33:36 -0000 Note: i meant to include the hacker wizards in this post to the -questions group from 20 mins ago. Here 'tis:: Guys, I have been interested in having a FreeBSD version of the SunOS "click" utility for decades. --I first discovered that my Sun 3/80 let the keys sound a brief click sound, much softer than ye-olden IBM Selectrics, around 1988-9. I do need the audio feedback. The folks in the wizard sector at Ubuntu turned me onto a python script of about 30 pages of code called "keymon.py" written by a Scott Kirkwood. The present keymon displays certain graphics when certain keys are hit. Scott does think that his script can include the click sound that I have. My program is in C, it opens the /dev/dsp and output a click via click.h. I am learning python and find it pretty straightforward. I think using Scott's keyboard program with mine can allow me to do just what I want. On the user-side, have clicky keys where necessary. This feedback would help folks using the severely cheep keyboards that are on the notebook class as well as even cheaper laptops for children whose keyboards are nothing put cardboard wrapped in plastic. Typing on a _real_ keyboard can be satisfactory. But when you try it on one of these crappy types, forget it. Just doing several random tests, my fingers do not connect with more than 60-65% of the keys on my EEE-900A. bEcause my shoulder is partly out of socket i can only type so much, so the more people who can check out keymon.py and let me know if it is worth porting to FBSD, the better. Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 7.98a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 22:27:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899F5106564A for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:27:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444B38FC18 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:27:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2RMRWUg002691; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2RMRWo6002690; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:27:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:27:32 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: Doug Barton Message-ID: <20110327222732.GA1514@albert.catwhisker.org> References: <20110327153835.GA87420@albert.catwhisker.org> <4D8F9E9A.50604@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D8F9E9A.50604@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:27:33 -0000 --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 01:31:22PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > On 03/27/2011 08:38, David Wolfskill wrote: > >It would (in principle) be possible to teach mergemaster(8) how to > >do this (possibly by including a cookie in ~/.mergemasterrc or > >/etc/mergemaster.rc to tell it what the "reference" zoneinfo pathname > >is), but this type of approach seems sufficiently different from > >(the bulk of?) what mergemaster does currently that I'm unconvinced > >that this is reasonable, let alone ideal. >=20 > Yeah, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about this. :) Indeed. > >So it seems to me that requirements would be: > >* The content of /etc/localtime must provide the appropriate > > "zoneinfo" information, even when/usr/share/zoneinfo/* has been > > modified (or shortly thereafter, in concert with "make installworld"). >=20 > This is more along the lines of something that would be easy to work=20 > with in mergemaster. Hmm... OK.... > If I can tell what file in /usr/share/zoneinfo to=20 > compare /etc/localtime to (ideally with fully path), I'm happy to=20 > provide a mechanism in mergemaster to make sure it stays up to date. Well, that's the function that the (hypothetical) "cookie" in ~/.mergemasterrc or /etc/mergemaster.rc was intended to to provide. It could be a simple shell variable, for example. There are other ways to do it, of course -- e.g., the first time the utility is run, it could actually ask, but then cache the information in some place so it could look there first (and if it finds a cached answer, avoid asking again unless it's told to ignore the cache -- as might be reasonable if the machine is moved to a different time zone. But I tend to favor simplicity. :-) Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk2PudMACgkQmprOCmdXAD2i3QCcDfC736kq1X49qVIpOCQypXru AjoAn3kPPHFQzpiWTbCF9DFfXLWsunLq =8Qkz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BOKacYhQ+x31HxR3-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 22:39:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21378106566B; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:39:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C420C8FC14; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:39:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2RMWoxL076713; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:32:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:32:50 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <703A54EA-3C99-4BAF-923B-91B50BFFC748@bsdimp.com> References: <201103250818.38470.jhb@freebsd.org> <20110326121646.GA2367@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <201103261012.32884.jhb@freebsd.org> To: Jing Huang X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: kostikbel@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin Subject: Re: [GSoc] Timeconter Performance Improvements X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:39:33 -0000 On Mar 26, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Jing Huang wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Thanks for you all sincerely. Under your guidance, I read the > specification of TSC in Intel Manual and learned the hardware feature > of TSC: >=20 > Processor families increment the time-stamp counter differently: > =95 For Pentium M processors (family [06H], models [09H, 0DH]); for = Pentium 4 > processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], models [00H, 01H, or = 02H]); > and for P6 family processors: the time-stamp counter increments with = every > internal processor clock cycle. >=20 > =95 For Pentium 4 processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], > models [03H and > higher]); for Intel Core Solo and Intel Core Duo processors (family = [06H], model > [0EH]); for the Intel Xeon processor 5100 series and Intel Core 2 Duo = processors > (family [06H], model [0FH]); for Intel Core 2 and Intel Xeon = processors (family > [06H], display_model [17H]); for Intel Atom processors (family [06H], > display_model [1CH]): the time-stamp counter increments at a constant = rate. >=20 > Maybe we would implement gettimeofday as fellows. Firstly, use cpuid > to find the family and models of current CPU. If the CPU support > constant TSC, we look up the shared page and calculate the precise > time in usermode. If the platform has invariant TSCs, and we just > fallback to a syscall. So, I think a single global shared page maybe > proper. I think that the userspace portion should be more like: int kernel_time_type) SECTION(shared); struct tsc_goo tsc_time_data SECTION(shared); switch (kernel_time_type) { case 1: /* code to use tsc_time_data to return time */ break; default: /* call the kernel */ } I think we should avoid hard-coding lists of CPU families in userland. = The kernel init routines will decide, based on the CPU type and other = stuff if this optimization can be done. This would allow the kernel to = update to support new CPU types without needing to churn libc. Warner P.S. The SECTION(shared) notation above just means that the variables = are in the shared page. >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 10:12 PM, John Baldwin = wrote: >> On Saturday, March 26, 2011 08:16:46 am Peter Jeremy wrote: >>> On 2011-Mar-25 08:18:38 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >>>> For modern Intel CPUs you can just assume that the TSCs are in sync = across >>>> packages. They also have invariant TSC's meaning that the = frequency >>>> doesn't change. >>>=20 >>> Synchronised P-state invariant TSCs vastly simplify the problem but >>> not everyone has them. Should the fallback be more complexity to >>> support per-CPU TSC counts and varying frequencies or a fallback to >>> reading the time via a syscall? >>=20 >> I think we should just fallback to a syscall in that case. We will = also need >> to do that if the TSC is not used as the timecounter (or always = duplicate the >> ntp_adjtime() work we do for the current timecounter for the TSC = timecounter). >>=20 >> Doing this easy case may give us the most bang for the buck, and it = is also a >> good first milestone. Once that is in place we can decide what the = value is >> in extending it to support harder variations. >>=20 >> One thing we do need to think about is if the shared page should just = export a >> fixed set of global data, or if it should export routines. The = latter >> approach is more complex, but it makes the ABI boundary between = userland and >> the kernel more friendly to future changes. I believe Linux does the = latter >> approach? >>=20 >> -- >> John Baldwin >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 >=20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 01:49:20 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98225106564A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emaste@freebsd.org) Received: from mail1.sandvine.com (Mail1.sandvine.com [64.7.137.134]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 206E98FC12; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com (192.168.222.22) by WTL-EXCH-1.sandvine.com (192.168.196.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.0.694.0; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:38:29 -0400 Received: by labgw2.phaedrus.sandvine.com (Postfix, from userid 10332) id 17E2F33C00; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:38:29 -0400 From: Ed Maste To: David Wolfskill Message-ID: <20110328013829.GA54785@sandvine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110327222732.GA1514@albert.catwhisker.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, Doug Barton , edwin@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:49:20 -0000 On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 03:27:32PM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: > There are other ways to do it, of course -- e.g., the first time the > utility is run, it could actually ask, but then cache the information in > some place so it could look there first (and if it finds a cached > answer, avoid asking again unless it's told to ignore the cache -- as > might be reasonable if the machine is moved to a different time zone. That's what tzsetup does in HEAD - the name of the selected timezone file is stored in /var/db/zoneinfo, and tzsetup -r can be used to copy in an updated file: -r Reinstall the zoneinfo file installed last time. The name is obtained from /var/db/zoneinfo. It looks like this hasn't been MFC'd, although I'm not sure why. The change came in from svn rev 198267 by edwin (CC'd). -Ed From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 02:12:15 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35FBA1065672; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:12:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA4428FC0C; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:12:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyj12 with SMTP id 12so3924751iyj.13 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.134.131 with SMTP id l3mr5682791ict.412.1301276948622; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.119] (99-74-169-43.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [99.74.169.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id wo15sm2462629icb.4.2011.03.27.18.49.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: <4D8F9E9A.50604@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:49:04 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <102B99D4-7D9B-43D5-9512-58EFA2EFB637@kientzle.com> References: <20110327153835.GA87420@albert.catwhisker.org> <4D8F9E9A.50604@FreeBSD.org> To: Doug Barton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:12:15 -0000 On Mar 27, 2011, at 1:31 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 03/27/2011 08:38, David Wolfskill wrote: >> So it seems to me that requirements would be: >> * The content of /etc/localtime must provide the appropriate >> "zoneinfo" information, even when/usr/share/zoneinfo/* has been >> modified (or shortly thereafter, in concert with "make = installworld"). >=20 > This is more along the lines of something that would be easy to work = with in mergemaster. If I can tell what file in /usr/share/zoneinfo to = compare /etc/localtime to (ideally with fully path), I'm happy to = provide a mechanism in mergemaster to make sure it stays up to date. The best fix is to first add the ability for date(1) to print out the current timezone name. (E.g., "America/Los_Angeles") Then it's trivial for mergemaster to update /etc/localtime; just ask date(1) for the timezone name and copy the correct one over /etc/localtime. Unfortunately, I think it's currently impossible for date(1) to do this because the zoneinfo files don't store that information. This is the real reason Solaris uses a symlink; the value of the symlink gives you the timezone name. FWIW, mergemaster is not the only program that would benefit from a canonical way to obtain the name of the current timezone. Cheers, Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 02:23:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C3A106566C for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:23:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marktinguely@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FEBE8FC13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:23:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so3882100iwn.13 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:23:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Jl5pBHzXzKSxxkOd8uSr9K1QF2E0eBMyhHzsv1aIN7I=; b=BjA6v/ImD+joAhQsZO1Z2h4tpK/e8VFi/e/G271+dNf+OGA0gnsuaLmOdsXnEwcwa/ TvrNN6NMua5wwVBenLuA4inpfG1louNKWoWuoEviaF9+ClDShwRp/lDi6wdqlDcXZD2+ vfvz6xUanuOsdWsJGZDEXV5/BJKEkc8+nCvtg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xfr0bjYhllXPMpf3SryPe3M/k7BBoM9Xe9cZL97HOipWPzZOWma0xL9AK2JDmvsRaE 0dSK2cb9ZOU1k/MOysFKZohQ8IGqhqDUYNyBOIgclgLgXwe9qBPSynR3W1FydUEu1umo RIlH81bQHRv0A+nJEGfyb0T9I55g2LIYDqaCU= Received: by 10.42.130.130 with SMTP id v2mr6195072ics.233.1301278999795; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-24-245-26-12.hsd1.mn.comcast.net [24.245.26.12]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o3sm2605646ibd.10.2011.03.27.19.23.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 27 Mar 2011 19:23:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4D8FF114.9080300@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:23:16 -0500 From: Mark Tinguely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <201103250818.38470.jhb@freebsd.org> <20110326121646.GA2367@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <201103261012.32884.jhb@freebsd.org> <703A54EA-3C99-4BAF-923B-91B50BFFC748@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <703A54EA-3C99-4BAF-923B-91B50BFFC748@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: kostikbel@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin , Jing Huang Subject: Re: [GSoc] Timeconter Performance Improvements X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:23:21 -0000 On 3/27/2011 5:32 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > On Mar 26, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Jing Huang wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Thanks for you all sincerely. Under your guidance, I read the >> specification of TSC in Intel Manual and learned the hardware feature >> of TSC: >> >> Processor families increment the time-stamp counter differently: >> • For Pentium M processors (family [06H], models [09H, 0DH]); for Pentium 4 >> processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], models [00H, 01H, or 02H]); >> and for P6 family processors: the time-stamp counter increments with every >> internal processor clock cycle. >> >> • For Pentium 4 processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], >> models [03H and >> higher]); for Intel Core Solo and Intel Core Duo processors (family [06H], model >> [0EH]); for the Intel Xeon processor 5100 series and Intel Core 2 Duo processors >> (family [06H], model [0FH]); for Intel Core 2 and Intel Xeon processors (family >> [06H], display_model [17H]); for Intel Atom processors (family [06H], >> display_model [1CH]): the time-stamp counter increments at a constant rate. >> >> Maybe we would implement gettimeofday as fellows. Firstly, use cpuid >> to find the family and models of current CPU. If the CPU support >> constant TSC, we look up the shared page and calculate the precise >> time in usermode. If the platform has invariant TSCs, and we just >> fallback to a syscall. So, I think a single global shared page maybe >> proper. > I think that the userspace portion should be more like: > > int kernel_time_type) SECTION(shared); > struct tsc_goo tsc_time_data SECTION(shared); > > switch (kernel_time_type) { > case 1: > /* code to use tsc_time_data to return time */ > break; > default: > /* call the kernel */ > } > > I think we should avoid hard-coding lists of CPU families in userland. The kernel init routines will decide, based on the CPU type and other stuff if this optimization can be done. This would allow the kernel to update to support new CPU types without needing to churn libc. > > Warner > > P.S. The SECTION(shared) notation above just means that the variables are in the shared page. > >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 10:12 PM, John Baldwin wrote: >>> On Saturday, March 26, 2011 08:16:46 am Peter Jeremy wrote: >>>> On 2011-Mar-25 08:18:38 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >>>>> For modern Intel CPUs you can just assume that the TSCs are in sync across >>>>> packages. They also have invariant TSC's meaning that the frequency >>>>> doesn't change. >>>> Synchronised P-state invariant TSCs vastly simplify the problem but >>>> not everyone has them. Should the fallback be more complexity to >>>> support per-CPU TSC counts and varying frequencies or a fallback to >>>> reading the time via a syscall? >>> I think we should just fallback to a syscall in that case. We will also need >>> to do that if the TSC is not used as the timecounter (or always duplicate the >>> ntp_adjtime() work we do for the current timecounter for the TSC timecounter). >>> >>> Doing this easy case may give us the most bang for the buck, and it is also a >>> good first milestone. Once that is in place we can decide what the value is >>> in extending it to support harder variations. >>> >>> One thing we do need to think about is if the shared page should just export a >>> fixed set of global data, or if it should export routines. The latter >>> approach is more complex, but it makes the ABI boundary between userland and >>> the kernel more friendly to future changes. I believe Linux does the latter >>> approach? >>> >>> -- >>> John Baldwin >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > If a user process can perform a rfork(2) or rfork_thread(3) with RFMEM option, then can't the same page table be active on multiple processors? Mapping per CPU page(s) to a fixed user addess(es) would only hold the last switched cpu's information. x86 architectures use a segment pointer to keep the kernel per cpu information current. --Mark Tinguely. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 27 20:58:41 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30281106564A; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:58:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from poyopoyo@puripuri.plala.or.jp) Received: from msa03a.plala.or.jp (msa03.plala.or.jp [58.93.240.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79F438FC12; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:58:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from i125-202-4-145.s02.a026.ap.plala.or.jp ([125.202.4.145]) by msa01b.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20110327204838.CMSD29071.msa01b.plala.or.jp@i125-202-4-145.s02.a026.ap.plala.or.jp>; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:48:38 +0900 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:48:37 +0900 Message-ID: <86bp0wp9wa.wl%poyopoyo@puripuri.plala.or.jp> From: poyopoyo@puripuri.plala.or.jp To: Doug Barton In-Reply-To: <4D8F9E9A.50604@FreeBSD.org> References: <20110327153835.GA87420@albert.catwhisker.org> <4D8F9E9A.50604@FreeBSD.org> Mail-Followup-To: Doug Barton , David Wolfskill , hackers@freebsd.org User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-2022-JP-2?B?R29qGyQoRCtXGyhC?=) APEL/10.8 Emacs/23.2 (amd64-portbld-freebsd9.0) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-VirusScan: Outbound; msa01b; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:48:38 +0900 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:49:45 +0000 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:58:41 -0000 At Sun, 27 Mar 2011 13:31:22 -0700, Doug Barton wrote: > This is more along the lines of something that would be easy to work > with in mergemaster. If I can tell what file in /usr/share/zoneinfo to > compare /etc/localtime to (ideally with fully path), I'm happy to > provide a mechanism in mergemaster to make sure it stays up to date. tzsetup(8) creates /var/db/zoneinfo which contains path to the installed zoneinfo file relative to /usr/share/zineinfo/. $ cat /var/db/zoneinfo Asia/Tokyo $ md5 -q /etc/localtime /usr/share/zoneinfo/$(cat /var/db/zoneinfo) f17769e8eb35e7a08cfedfe9b2f6b5ef f17769e8eb35e7a08cfedfe9b2f6b5ef -- kuro From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 04:29:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D50A01065673; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 04:29:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAD048FC15; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 04:29:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from julian-mac.elischer.org (home-nat.elischer.org [67.100.89.137]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2S4TKqv012089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:29:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4D900EB4.2050500@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:29:40 -0700 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh References: <201103250818.38470.jhb@freebsd.org> <20110326121646.GA2367@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <201103261012.32884.jhb@freebsd.org> <703A54EA-3C99-4BAF-923B-91B50BFFC748@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <703A54EA-3C99-4BAF-923B-91B50BFFC748@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: kostikbel@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jing Huang Subject: Re: [GSoc] Timeconter Performance Improvements X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 04:29:40 -0000 On 3/27/11 3:32 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > On Mar 26, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Jing Huang wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Thanks for you all sincerely. Under your guidance, I read the >> specification of TSC in Intel Manual and learned the hardware feature >> of TSC: >> >> Processor families increment the time-stamp counter differently: >> • For Pentium M processors (family [06H], models [09H, 0DH]); for Pentium 4 >> processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], models [00H, 01H, or 02H]); >> and for P6 family processors: the time-stamp counter increments with every >> internal processor clock cycle. >> >> • For Pentium 4 processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], >> models [03H and >> higher]); for Intel Core Solo and Intel Core Duo processors (family [06H], model >> [0EH]); for the Intel Xeon processor 5100 series and Intel Core 2 Duo processors >> (family [06H], model [0FH]); for Intel Core 2 and Intel Xeon processors (family >> [06H], display_model [17H]); for Intel Atom processors (family [06H], >> display_model [1CH]): the time-stamp counter increments at a constant rate. >> >> Maybe we would implement gettimeofday as fellows. Firstly, use cpuid >> to find the family and models of current CPU. If the CPU support >> constant TSC, we look up the shared page and calculate the precise >> time in usermode. If the platform has invariant TSCs, and we just >> fallback to a syscall. So, I think a single global shared page maybe >> proper. > I think that the userspace portion should be more like: > > int kernel_time_type) SECTION(shared); > struct tsc_goo tsc_time_data SECTION(shared); > > switch (kernel_time_type) { > case 1: > /* code to use tsc_time_data to return time */ > break; > default: > /* call the kernel */ > } > > I think we should avoid hard-coding lists of CPU families in userland. The kernel init routines will decide, based on the CPU type and other stuff if this optimization can be done. This would allow the kernel to update to support new CPU types without needing to churn libc. > > Warner > > P.S. The SECTION(shared) notation above just means that the variables are in the shared page. As has been mentioned here and there, the gold-standard way for doing this is for the kernel to export a special memory region in elf format that can be linked to with exported kernel sanctioned code snippets specially tailored for the cpu/OS/binray-format in question. There is no real security risk to this but potential upsides are great. >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 10:12 PM, John Baldwin wrote: >>> On Saturday, March 26, 2011 08:16:46 am Peter Jeremy wrote: >>>> On 2011-Mar-25 08:18:38 -0400, John Baldwin wrote: >>>>> For modern Intel CPUs you can just assume that the TSCs are in sync across >>>>> packages. They also have invariant TSC's meaning that the frequency >>>>> doesn't change. >>>> Synchronised P-state invariant TSCs vastly simplify the problem but >>>> not everyone has them. Should the fallback be more complexity to >>>> support per-CPU TSC counts and varying frequencies or a fallback to >>>> reading the time via a syscall? >>> I think we should just fallback to a syscall in that case. We will also need >>> to do that if the TSC is not used as the timecounter (or always duplicate the >>> ntp_adjtime() work we do for the current timecounter for the TSC timecounter). >>> >>> Doing this easy case may give us the most bang for the buck, and it is also a >>> good first milestone. Once that is in place we can decide what the value is >>> in extending it to support harder variations. >>> >>> One thing we do need to think about is if the shared page should just export a >>> fixed set of global data, or if it should export routines. The latter >>> approach is more complex, but it makes the ABI boundary between userland and >>> the kernel more friendly to future changes. I believe Linux does the latter >>> approach? >>> >>> -- >>> John Baldwin >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 04:48:08 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E19A106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 04:48:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2FC8FC0A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 04:48:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [173.241.25.35] (port=64279 helo=[10.0.0.102]) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Q44Mt-00034K-Tg; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:47:58 -0700 From: Devin Teske Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:48:03 -0700 Message-Id: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> To: FreeBSD Hackers Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Scan-Signature: 868db5ea8d42804af40e82f13d79880b X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Devin Teske Subject: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 04:48:08 -0000 Hi fellow hackers, I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I = feel that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be = whittled down significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a = single-action item menu system. In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. =46rom old: FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w to new: Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot = Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, = updates the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the = user ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types = "boot". Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with = verbosity on and ACPI disabled (if one so desired). In addition, I really tried to capture the essence of the new logo = (spent months off-and-on using different conversion programs with = different inputs). In the end, I found text-image.com produced the best = result. I used the official freebsd.org/logo.html Standard Logo (black = and white), cropped (to 122x123) and converted to jpeg with white = background. I used an "Image Width" of 45 in their "Convert into ASCII" = program available here: text-image.com/convert/ascii.html I would be distributing this as an installable package (perhaps in the = ports tree if it gains popularity). --=20 Cheers, Devin Teske -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy. -> FUN STUFF <- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GAT/CS/B/CC/E/IT/MC/M/MU/P/S/TW d+(++) s: a- C+++@$ UB++++$ P++++@$ = L++++$ E- W+++ N? o? K? w@ O M++$ V- PS+>++ PE@ Y+ PGP-> t(+) 5? X(+) R(-) tv+ = b+>++ DI+ D+(++) G++ e>++++ h r+++ z+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.geekcode.com/ -> END TRANSMISSION <- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 05:19:56 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF7B1065672; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:19:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ABF98FC08; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:19:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2S5ELaL004257; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:14:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4D900EB4.2050500@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:14:22 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201103250818.38470.jhb@freebsd.org> <20110326121646.GA2367@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <201103261012.32884.jhb@freebsd.org> <703A54EA-3C99-4BAF-923B-91B50BFFC748@bsdimp.com> <4D900EB4.2050500@freebsd.org> To: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: kostikbel@gmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin , Jing Huang Subject: Re: [GSoc] Timeconter Performance Improvements X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:19:57 -0000 On Mar 27, 2011, at 10:29 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: > On 3/27/11 3:32 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >> On Mar 26, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Jing Huang wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> Thanks for you all sincerely. Under your guidance, I read the >>> specification of TSC in Intel Manual and learned the hardware = feature >>> of TSC: >>>=20 >>> Processor families increment the time-stamp counter differently: >>> =95 For Pentium M processors (family [06H], models [09H, 0DH]); = for Pentium 4 >>> processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], models [00H, 01H, = or 02H]); >>> and for P6 family processors: the time-stamp counter increments with = every >>> internal processor clock cycle. >>>=20 >>> =95 For Pentium 4 processors, Intel Xeon processors (family [0FH], >>> models [03H and >>> higher]); for Intel Core Solo and Intel Core Duo processors (family = [06H], model >>> [0EH]); for the Intel Xeon processor 5100 series and Intel Core 2 = Duo processors >>> (family [06H], model [0FH]); for Intel Core 2 and Intel Xeon = processors (family >>> [06H], display_model [17H]); for Intel Atom processors (family = [06H], >>> display_model [1CH]): the time-stamp counter increments at a = constant rate. >>>=20 >>> Maybe we would implement gettimeofday as fellows. Firstly, use cpuid >>> to find the family and models of current CPU. If the CPU support >>> constant TSC, we look up the shared page and calculate the precise >>> time in usermode. If the platform has invariant TSCs, and we just >>> fallback to a syscall. So, I think a single global shared page maybe >>> proper. >> I think that the userspace portion should be more like: >>=20 >> int kernel_time_type) SECTION(shared); >> struct tsc_goo tsc_time_data SECTION(shared); >>=20 >> switch (kernel_time_type) { >> case 1: >> /* code to use tsc_time_data to return time */ >> break; >> default: >> /* call the kernel */ >> } >>=20 >> I think we should avoid hard-coding lists of CPU families in = userland. The kernel init routines will decide, based on the CPU type = and other stuff if this optimization can be done. This would allow the = kernel to update to support new CPU types without needing to churn libc. >>=20 >> Warner >>=20 >> P.S. The SECTION(shared) notation above just means that the = variables are in the shared page. >=20 > As has been mentioned here and there, the gold-standard way for doing = this is for the kernel to export a special memory region > in elf format that can be linked to with exported kernel sanctioned = code snippets specially tailored for the cpu/OS/binray-format > in question. There is no real security risk to this but potential = upsides are great. You'll have to map multiple pages if you do this: one for the data that = has to be exported from the kernel and one that has to be the executable = code. I don't think this is necessarily the "gold standard" at all. I = think it is overkill that we'll grow to regret. My method you'll have the code 100% in userland, where it belongs. If = you want to map CPU-type-specific code, add it to ld.so. Warner >>>=20 >>> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 10:12 PM, John Baldwin = wrote: >>>> On Saturday, March 26, 2011 08:16:46 am Peter Jeremy wrote: >>>>> On 2011-Mar-25 08:18:38 -0400, John Baldwin = wrote: >>>>>> For modern Intel CPUs you can just assume that the TSCs are in = sync across >>>>>> packages. They also have invariant TSC's meaning that the = frequency >>>>>> doesn't change. >>>>> Synchronised P-state invariant TSCs vastly simplify the problem = but >>>>> not everyone has them. Should the fallback be more complexity to >>>>> support per-CPU TSC counts and varying frequencies or a fallback = to >>>>> reading the time via a syscall? >>>> I think we should just fallback to a syscall in that case. We will = also need >>>> to do that if the TSC is not used as the timecounter (or always = duplicate the >>>> ntp_adjtime() work we do for the current timecounter for the TSC = timecounter). >>>>=20 >>>> Doing this easy case may give us the most bang for the buck, and it = is also a >>>> good first milestone. Once that is in place we can decide what the = value is >>>> in extending it to support harder variations. >>>>=20 >>>> One thing we do need to think about is if the shared page should = just export a >>>> fixed set of global data, or if it should export routines. The = latter >>>> approach is more complex, but it makes the ABI boundary between = userland and >>>> the kernel more friendly to future changes. I believe Linux does = the latter >>>> approach? >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> John Baldwin >>>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>>=20 >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 05:22:27 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671541065675 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:22:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1CC8FC18 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:22:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [173.241.25.35] (port=65217 helo=[10.0.0.102]) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Q44u7-0003Sw-3L; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:22:17 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:22:22 -0700 Message-Id: References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> To: Super Bisquit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Scan-Signature: b2d8ed8bbd0600e905b5342d3e5a9760 X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Devin Teske Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:22:27 -0000 On Mar 27, 2011, at 9:53 PM, Super Bisquit wrote: > And what if I need to boot into single user mode? I'll forgive the top-post, and I'll even forgive that you missed the = below "NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option." Here it is with single-user mode option: twitpic.com/4e6gu1 -- Devin >=20 > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Devin Teske = wrote: > Hi fellow hackers, >=20 > I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I = feel that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be = whittled down significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a = single-action item menu system. >=20 > In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. =46rom old: >=20 > FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w >=20 > to new: >=20 > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol >=20 > NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. >=20 > The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot = Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, = updates the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the = user ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types = "boot". Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with = verbosity on and ACPI disabled (if one so desired). >=20 > In addition, I really tried to capture the essence of the new logo = (spent months off-and-on using different conversion programs with = different inputs). In the end, I found text-image.com produced the best = result. I used the official freebsd.org/logo.html Standard Logo (black = and white), cropped (to 122x123) and converted to jpeg with white = background. I used an "Image Width" of 45 in their "Convert into ASCII" = program available here: text-image.com/convert/ascii.html >=20 > I would be distributing this as an installable package (perhaps in the = ports tree if it gains popularity). > -- > Cheers, > Devin Teske >=20 >=20 > -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- > This message contains confidential and proprietary information > of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it > is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any > other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, > and delete the original message without making a copy. >=20 > -> FUN STUFF <- > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GAT/CS/B/CC/E/IT/MC/M/MU/P/S/TW d+(++) s: a- C+++@$ UB++++$ P++++@$ = L++++$ E- > W+++ N? o? K? w@ O M++$ V- PS+>++ PE@ Y+ PGP-> t(+) 5? X(+) R(-) tv+ = b+>++ DI+ > D+(++) G++ e>++++ h r+++ z+++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > http://www.geekcode.com/ >=20 > -> END TRANSMISSION <- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 05:24:13 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF840106568C for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:24:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF1D8FC13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vws18 with SMTP id 18so2460492vws.13 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:24:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=RsrKvEI3zy2/izxrTqYFUuFmdUkHfzl6IkgC8kFese0=; b=bP1bzyEiGaxW6UFVkoIeYoBRbWi0X0J+DGVd4lzFR3SiZOBt9NGKQsfvnoafzW1MH7 gcBcFhDLRUVkSHTsYHyIh03GzjSc0sg2XDz6Z3JuuDkr/9u252BOgCwdZbmgB5MHDduh vJjaY7ZRHxa6nuwQzmkSSwey98B8h7WYjz5EA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=nsrQMwM4ZZmnoB0x422j/pCqnkkZHeO+trQDSH7kEtS5rE6mVrNcA09ocyevB89RNM kRWAuF9jFm6OZOeLX5SqSd1jf1G+KD0sQ36FkoPZoHGHN8IzzIibqC0+zJ+c4tTpsded I5U9COSSSM0TPQXohlrq1OaZ+Hq8sokTnVhN8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.193.193 with SMTP id dv1mr978348vcb.105.1301288037072; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.189.134 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:53:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 00:53:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: Devin Teske Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Devin Teske Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:24:13 -0000 And what if I need to boot into single user mode? On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > Hi fellow hackers, > > I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I feel > that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be whittled down > significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a single-action item > menu system. > > In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. From old: > > FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w > > to new: > > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol > > NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. > > The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot > Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, updates > the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the user > ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types "boot". > Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with verbosity on and > ACPI disabled (if one so desired). > > In addition, I really tried to capture the essence of the new logo (spent > months off-and-on using different conversion programs with different > inputs). In the end, I found text-image.com produced the best result. I > used the official freebsd.org/logo.html Standard Logo (black and white), > cropped (to 122x123) and converted to jpeg with white background. I used an > "Image Width" of 45 in their "Convert into ASCII" program available here: > text-image.com/convert/ascii.html > > I would be distributing this as an installable package (perhaps in the > ports tree if it gains popularity). > -- > Cheers, > Devin Teske > > > -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- > This message contains confidential and proprietary information > of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it > is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any > other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, > and delete the original message without making a copy. > > -> FUN STUFF <- > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GAT/CS/B/CC/E/IT/MC/M/MU/P/S/TW d+(++) s: a- C+++@$ UB++++$ P++++@$ L++++$ > E- > W+++ N? o? K? w@ O M++$ V- PS+>++ PE@ Y+ PGP-> t(+) 5? X(+) R(-) tv+ b+>++ > DI+ > D+(++) G++ e>++++ h r+++ z+++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > http://www.geekcode.com/ > > -> END TRANSMISSION <- > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 05:25:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35DBD106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:25:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB56B8FC26 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:25:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2S5MVEb004315 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:22:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:22:32 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:25:01 -0000 On Mar 27, 2011, at 10:48 PM, Devin Teske wrote: > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol >=20 > NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. This looks really cool. Nice to see a fresh look for the boot loader... > The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot = Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, = updates the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the = user ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types = "boot". Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with = verbosity on and ACPI disabled (if one so desired). >=20 > In addition, I really tried to capture the essence of the new logo = (spent months off-and-on using different conversion programs with = different inputs). In the end, I found text-image.com produced the best = result. I used the official freebsd.org/logo.html Standard Logo (black = and white), cropped (to 122x123) and converted to jpeg with white = background. I used an "Image Width" of 45 in their "Convert into ASCII" = program available here: text-image.com/convert/ascii.html This looks cool... > I would be distributing this as an installable package (perhaps in the = ports tree if it gains popularity). That would be nice... Warner > --=20 > Cheers, > Devin Teske >=20 >=20 > -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- > This message contains confidential and proprietary information > of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it > is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any > other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, > and delete the original message without making a copy. >=20 > -> FUN STUFF <- > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GAT/CS/B/CC/E/IT/MC/M/MU/P/S/TW d+(++) s: a- C+++@$ UB++++$ P++++@$ = L++++$ E- > W+++ N? o? K? w@ O M++$ V- PS+>++ PE@ Y+ PGP-> t(+) 5? X(+) R(-) tv+ = b+>++ DI+ > D+(++) G++ e>++++ h r+++ z+++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > http://www.geekcode.com/ >=20 > -> END TRANSMISSION <- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 >=20 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 06:30:12 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C6C1065672 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:30:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC2D8FC17 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk35 with SMTP id 35so940317qyk.13 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:30:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0SLisZ+vCI/wukDtNytJBZDqkduN2OL4HjtnmOcTGQs=; b=ZY8NzNYx935mh9OrQcQu2EbsH2TfxvXgwLPG8B8qC8Hth3iFigVG5l8nh7bu/fYVjk g5U6wGDGBWuEZoc6ezHHnhpINhOIsS+nV/0WicS2z4KekQfnoN5CVReP8ZTkLbgXZlWm 1cIPcpQ1OShMWHWdvVPt7DWgLh0rPZj5qTvLw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=l6HKcuKJiE5eJFHN/d9DC122VPxqPlxJqogSEgYjTaZefYJPa99PdKT51JyQzsAoqF Da2Nvii2MzkO2NfdA1673p4M9/ccZ2m3xvo6cypcu/wrZus1PJkLMjwIBSRPEA5IBKDz wECnleBtOqwHR1KF+oD2RSvPvoLwVYvRoqw+4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.10.13 with SMTP id n13mr2693223qan.17.1301292001028; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.67.21 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Mar 2011 23:00:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 02:00:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Devin Teske Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Super Bisquit , Devin Teske , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:30:12 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > > On Mar 27, 2011, at 9:53 PM, Super Bisquit wrote: > > > And what if I need to boot into single user mode? > > I'll forgive the top-post, and I'll even forgive that you missed the below > "NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option." > > Here it is with single-user mode option: twitpic.com/4e6gu1 > -- > Devin > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > > Hi fellow hackers, > > > > I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I feel > that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be whittled down > significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a single-action item > menu system. > > > > In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. From old: > > > > FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w > > > > to new: > > > > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol > > > > NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. > > > > The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot > Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, updates > the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the user > ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types "boot". > Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with verbosity on and > ACPI disabled (if one so desired). > > > ... New menu is really good . One feature ( which is important for response ability ) is to increase down counter starting from at least 255 as default . This will not change anything toward bad because a few seconds later a prompt will appear and the computer will start to wait user response for logging . If the user will use an automatic login , it is obvious that he/she is knowing how to modify that counter to satisfy his/her needs . Instead of considering exceptions , please consider generally less experienced to modify that counter and/or having obstacles to respond immediately . Personally mostly I am becoming able to boot such menus after a few hard resets of power of the computer . My personal attitude toward this counter is a strong hate . After every operating system install , the first task I am doing is to disable that counter completely or increase it to at least 1000 . Default boot mode is not always the best and please assume that every one will not be able to respond immediately due to so many possibilities of reasons to cause a late response . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 07:55:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDC71065674 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 07:55:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@psconsult.nl) Received: from mx1.psconsult.nl (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:30f:e0::5059:ee8a]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D718FC0C for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 07:55:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.psconsult.nl (psc11.adsl.iaf.nl [80.89.238.138]) by mx1.psconsult.nl (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2S7tTAK034705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:55:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@psconsult.nl) Received: (from paul@localhost) by mx1.psconsult.nl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2S7tTTC034704 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:55:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@psconsult.nl) X-Authentication-Warning: mx1.psconsult.nl: paul set sender to freebsd@psconsult.nl using -f Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:55:29 +0200 From: Paul Schenkeveld To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110328075529.GA1403@psconsult.nl> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 07:55:37 -0000 On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 09:48:03PM -0700, Devin Teske wrote: > Hi fellow hackers, > > I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I feel that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be whittled down significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a single-action item menu system. > > In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. From old: > > FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w > > to new: > > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol Very nice! Could you consider changing the number options to letters: v=verbose, a=acpi, s=single ... Having many (hundreds) of machines to manage it's confusing to need 6 for boot prompt on older versions and 5 on the newer where 6 on the newer reboots. Moving from digits to letters with digits resulting in either a beep or a pause saves a lot of frustration for sysadmins already annoyed by the ever increasing POST delay rapidly pressing 6 when the boot0 menu appears. Thanks for your work! Paul Schenkeveld From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 08:58:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E5E106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:58:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lichray@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8431E8FC1A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:58:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qwc9 with SMTP id 9so1982246qwc.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:58:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+n180kE5uu87L4lD+bcIZ6liaTW4jEBpGlB10DdI2kQ=; b=lKGd3QXqXpl8Rs7B1LekI902118ilfHgpb+5GGmriqBLml9OHmWM5NVKHI8y4w8jO5 tmGOVmMc0LDLIrCaVoN8w2YdWkQezIOZ04LAUiL638IRFpwrzSAEO2vbPDF/sDVd/4QP 3zhOgYMBkpTxwTafbUFgDuatH7MqNLwhI+rNE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xGXZefcL6xeg3N3xssAMpCNzhpnlPEjxixy29dFHMshEJVv0Lxs2m7MDqLLcFvU0f1 i+JBD97TAoP9/YH0Yo5RMK0tZBExo5QY4bLd5w0YvQRza/3LcXP8XKEmMUw5EbqyZA8F FqufH4aMrWmXCKSdLJxXZrGnVa1ariV8JU51I= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.41.11 with SMTP id m11mr3082934qae.155.1301302703524; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.20.19 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 01:58:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110328075529.GA1403@psconsult.nl> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <20110328075529.GA1403@psconsult.nl> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:58:23 -0500 Message-ID: From: Zhihao Yuan To: Paul Schenkeveld Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:58:25 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:55 AM, Paul Schenkeveld wr= ote: > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 09:48:03PM -0700, Devin Teske wrote: >> Hi fellow hackers, >> >> I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I fee= l that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be whittled d= own significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a single-action i= tem menu system. >> >> In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. From old: >> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w >> >> to new: >> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol > > Very nice! > > Could you consider changing the number options to letters: v=3Dverbose, > a=3Dacpi, s=3Dsingle ... I agree. Vim-like actions make sense here. And also, I want command completion... > > Having many (hundreds) of machines to manage it's confusing to need 6 > for boot prompt on older versions and 5 on the newer where 6 on the > newer reboots. =C2=A0Moving from digits to letters with digits resulting = in > either a beep or a pause saves a lot of frustration for sysadmins > already annoyed by the ever increasing POST delay rapidly pressing > 6 when the boot0 menu appears. > > Thanks for your work! > > Paul Schenkeveld > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > --=20 Zhihao Yuan The best way to predict the future is to invent it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 09:33:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 303CA106566C for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:33:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@fubar.geek.nz) Received: from out3.smtp.messagingengine.com (out3.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004428FC14 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:33:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.42]) by gateway1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20B82071D; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:33:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:33:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=messagingengine.com; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=smtpout; bh=6knUdBEIEqBzsh4LILXN5isw5T4=; b=hvI4loPPRXSOy6t6j0lRAWdrFO943faF5Lq/7K+B5sjIcWDVT/GGa4qguf34BALyYZM74SPLGDu3SmrSBcrRKIP4kmij/by44ZZfCSfG3uAX+jGN7NW1Y6n1ch8dQaVn6phRMrSGA1QqJrjjuSXxXyvT/kgUmtmkGzzHhsreMSw= X-Sasl-enc: 91EKgsnWynSK7mK00utzJ/K2plaSzKv3CDBQVVOhLqNt 1301304811 Received: from localhost (222-154-136-33.jetstream.xtra.co.nz [222.154.136.33]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6FF4444804F; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:33:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:33:19 +1300 From: Andrew Turner To: Stefan Farfeleder Message-ID: <20110328223319.4df096b2@fubar.geek.nz> In-Reply-To: <20110327200729.GD2651@mole.fafoe.narf.at> References: <20110328083657.35507caf@fubar.geek.nz> <20110327200729.GD2651@mole.fafoe.narf.at> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.22.1; i386-portbld-freebsd8.0) X-Pirate: Arrrr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unsigned wchar_t X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:33:33 -0000 On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:07:30 +0200 Stefan Farfeleder wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 08:36:57AM +1300, Andrew Turner wrote: > > Along with this WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX are defined both in > > and . I would like to remove the copy > > from wchar.h and add an include to machine/_stdint.h. > > > > Would there be any problems with either of these or is there a > > better place to put the __wchar_t typedef and define WCHAR_MIN and > > WCHAR_MAX? > > The C standard specifies that both and shall > define WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX. You cannot simply include > from because the former contains a lot > of other macros. I thought that might be the case. I could create for the defines unless there is a better place for them. Andrew From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 11:08:07 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id 9446C1065675; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:08:07 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:08:07 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: Warner Losh Message-ID: <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:08:07 -0000 On Sun Mar 27 11, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Mar 27, 2011, at 10:48 PM, Devin Teske wrote: > > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol > > > > NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. > > This looks really cool. Nice to see a fresh look for the boot loader... sorry if we have different opinions on this matter, but i don't quite see the "fresh" look. imo a "modern" boot loader looks like this http://www.dailycupoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/ubuntu01.png or this http://images.linuxscreenshots.com/distro/opensuse/11.3/h400/01_boot_menu.png ... and not something made out of ascii chars like it's 1981. ;) > > > The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, updates the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the user ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types "boot". Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with verbosity on and ACPI disabled (if one so desired). > > > > In addition, I really tried to capture the essence of the new logo (spent months off-and-on using different conversion programs with different inputs). In the end, I found text-image.com produced the best result. I used the official freebsd.org/logo.html Standard Logo (black and white), cropped (to 122x123) and converted to jpeg with white background. I used an "Image Width" of 45 in their "Convert into ASCII" program available here: text-image.com/convert/ascii.html > > This looks cool... > > > I would be distributing this as an installable package (perhaps in the ports tree if it gains popularity). > > That would be nice... > > Warner > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Devin Teske > > > > > > -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- > > This message contains confidential and proprietary information > > of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it > > is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any > > other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > > message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, > > and delete the original message without making a copy. > > > > -> FUN STUFF <- > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > > Version 3.12 > > GAT/CS/B/CC/E/IT/MC/M/MU/P/S/TW d+(++) s: a- C+++@$ UB++++$ P++++@$ L++++$ E- > > W+++ N? o? K? w@ O M++$ V- PS+>++ PE@ Y+ PGP-> t(+) 5? X(+) R(-) tv+ b+>++ DI+ > > D+(++) G++ e>++++ h r+++ z+++ > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > http://www.geekcode.com/ > > > > -> END TRANSMISSION <- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 09:20:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F52D1065679 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:20:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9558FC08 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:20:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5B1548A0.dip.t-dialin.net [91.21.72.160]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47C05844015; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:20:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D7F1795; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:20:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p2S9KAFq086774; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:20:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:20:10 +0200 Message-ID: <20110328112010.19795t4h8scqbzks@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:20:10 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Jesse Smith References: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> <1301257760.2321.11.camel@hp-laptop> In-Reply-To: <1301257760.2321.11.camel@hp-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.6) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: 47C05844015.ADAF6 X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=0, required 6, autolearn=disabled) X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1301908815.66691@pNWz5T4429Of9Q0WkgMhBA X-EBL-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:16:37 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Prebind from OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:20:19 -0000 Quoting Jesse Smith (from Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:29:20 -0300): > Thanks very much for the reply. I had thought this was a project/port > that was in progress, rather than something waiting on research. Do you > know if that's also the case with other projects on the Ideas list? A > lot of them don't have many details or contact information associated > with them. I'm especially interested in the OpenBSD xlint port. Here's what I told a student who wants to participate in the GSoC about the OpenBSD lint port entry: ---snip--- The project is about having a look at what OpenBSD did to their lint. So first analyze what we have, then analyze what they have, and then see if stuff they have but we haven't can be ported. This assumes that there is a common ancestor to both lints, and that the code didn't diverge too much so that we do not have an either this or that situation. IF the code diverged to much or if there is no common ancestor, there is nothing to do regarding this specific project (it would be a new project to improve our lint). I do not know the code of both lints, so I do not know much improvements there are which we don't have, and how much work it is to port this over. In the worst case there is not enough or too much to do this as a GSoC project. Should be easy to determine by reading the history of lint on both version control systems to see if there is a common starting point, and if yes to see how much they derived from there. Regarding the lint project itself... I (= personal opinion, not an official word from FreeBSD) do not think this is a project which would gain a lot of interest (= highly rated during the GSoC evaluation). If you want to send in a proposal for this (after researching if it is feasible, see above), I suggest to send in more than one proposal. This should improve your change to be chosen. In the last GSoCs we had students which send in several proposals, some of the proposals didn't gain enough interest, but another one from the same person was chosen. Seeing multiple proposals from the same person gave us a hint about his technical knowledge (sane expectations in the proposals or not). ---snip--- Bye, Alexander. -- Snakes. Why did it have to be snakes? http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 12:00:32 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6C81065670; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:00:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3628FC1B; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:00:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA28039; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:00:29 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4D90785C.1010802@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:00:28 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110309 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alexander Best References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:00:32 -0000 on 28/03/2011 14:08 Alexander Best said the following: > sorry if we have different opinions on this matter, but i don't quite see > the "fresh" look. > > imo a "modern" boot loader looks like this > > http://www.dailycupoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/ubuntu01.png > > or this > > http://images.linuxscreenshots.com/distro/opensuse/11.3/h400/01_boot_menu.png > > ... and not something made out of ascii chars like it's 1981. ;) There is/was a different project for that too: http://wiki.freebsd.org/OliverFromme/BootLoader Please note that graphical loaders are not very serial console friendly ;-) -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 12:04:38 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF6B106568A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:04:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257FC8FC12 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id PAA28086; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:04:34 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4D907951.6020804@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:04:33 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110309 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Devin Teske References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> In-Reply-To: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Devin Teske Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:04:39 -0000 Would also be cool to have an option to boot "something else" (like e.g. memtest86). Maybe a special directory with loadable binaries and a special menu entry to select one of them. Probably even better to have a mechanism for pluggable menu entries like a special directory that would have .4th files each of which would represent one extra menu option. So instead of hacking system .4th files, one could easily extend main menu with custom entries. Just a dream... -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 12:19:14 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0675106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:19:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752198FC17 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:19:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2SCJDnZ003652; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2SCJDpj003651; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:19:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 05:19:13 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: Ed Maste Message-ID: <20110328121913.GH1766@albert.catwhisker.org> References: <20110327222732.GA1514@albert.catwhisker.org> <20110328013829.GA54785@sandvine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VkqCAaSJIySsbD6j" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110328013829.GA54785@sandvine.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:19:14 -0000 --VkqCAaSJIySsbD6j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 09:38:29PM -0400, Ed Maste wrote: > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 03:27:32PM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: >=20 > > There are other ways to do it, of course -- e.g., the first time the > > utility is run, it could actually ask, but then cache the information in > > some place so it could look there first (and if it finds a cached > > answer, avoid asking again unless it's told to ignore the cache -- as > > might be reasonable if the machine is moved to a different time zone. >=20 > That's what tzsetup does in HEAD - the name of the selected timezone file > is stored in /var/db/zoneinfo, and tzsetup -r can be used to copy in an > updated file: >=20 > -r Reinstall the zoneinfo file installed last time. The > name is obtained from /var/db/zoneinfo. >=20 > It looks like this hasn't been MFC'd, although I'm not sure why. The > change came in from svn rev 198267 by edwin (CC'd). Thanks for pointing that out -- I had failed to consider that the behavior might have changed in head. It does seem to me that an MFC would be useful and harmless, based only on the above information. Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Depriving a girl or boy of an opportunity for education is evil. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --VkqCAaSJIySsbD6j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk2QfMAACgkQmprOCmdXAD2hUQCfTUptpOo5o4N76CE+jXKTJ/2f 8OgAn04bGozU0R0Z4rleqzIHzAT/ny33 =XlJO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VkqCAaSJIySsbD6j-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 14:21:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA8F1065675 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:21:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE588FC0A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:21:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (66.111.2.69.static.nyinternet.net [66.111.2.69]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4FF146B03; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 479D08A027; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:21:02 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:03:32 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110311; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> In-Reply-To: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201103281003.32661.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:21:02 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Devin Teske , Devin Teske Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:21:03 -0000 On Monday, March 28, 2011 12:48:03 am Devin Teske wrote: > Hi fellow hackers, > > I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I feel that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be whittled down significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a single-action item menu system. Are you reimplementing loader from scratch or just hacking on the 4th scripts to display the menu, etc.? > In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. From old: > > FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w > > to new: > > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol > > NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. > > The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, updates the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the user ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types "boot". Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with verbosity on and ACPI disabled (if one so desired). This is good. I think DFly already does this and I had a low priority item on my todo list to eventually implement this in the current menu myself. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 14:43:49 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8915A106564A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:43:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B988FC1E; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:43:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2SEWNsm011958; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:32:24 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> To: Alexander Best X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:43:49 -0000 On Mar 28, 2011, at 5:08 AM, Alexander Best wrote: > On Sun Mar 27 11, Warner Losh wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> On Mar 27, 2011, at 10:48 PM, Devin Teske wrote: >>> Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol >>>=20 >>> NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. >>=20 >> This looks really cool. Nice to see a fresh look for the boot = loader... >=20 > sorry if we have different opinions on this matter, but i don't quite = see > the "fresh" look. >=20 > imo a "modern" boot loader looks like this >=20 > http://www.dailycupoftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/ubuntu01.png >=20 > or this >=20 > = http://images.linuxscreenshots.com/distro/opensuse/11.3/h400/01_boot_menu.= png >=20 > ... and not something made out of ascii chars like it's 1981. ;) Fresh here means "not looking exactly like it has since 1995"... Where = we wind up might not be this prototype, but it should spur discussions. Warner= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 15:51:13 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B060B106566C for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:51:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9775D8FC18 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:51:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [173.241.25.35] (port=50197 helo=[10.0.0.102]) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4Eia-0008Mp-CW; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:51:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <201103281003.32661.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:51:10 -0700 Message-Id: <516E4086-F579-4752-A01D-2D8EC4E2CEAE@vicor.com> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <201103281003.32661.jhb@freebsd.org> To: John Baldwin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Scan-Signature: c61feb86be2d5867fe8e5dc7b9036f8f X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Devin Teske Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:51:13 -0000 On Mar 28, 2011, at 7:03 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Monday, March 28, 2011 12:48:03 am Devin Teske wrote: >> Hi fellow hackers, >>=20 >> I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I = feel >> that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be = whittled down >> significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a single-action = item >> menu system. >=20 > Are you reimplementing loader from scratch or just hacking on the 4th = scripts=20 > to display the menu, etc.? The menu is implemented as a series of 4th modules. Here's an earlier = version of the code which I've been using on my LiveDistro boot disc: = druidbsd.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/druidbsd/druidbsd/druidbsd/mdroot/boot= / >=20 >> In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. =46rom old: >>=20 >> FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w >>=20 >> to new: >>=20 >> Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol >>=20 >> NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. >>=20 >> The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 = ("Boot=20 >> Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, = updates the >> menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the user = ultimately >> presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types "boot". Thus, = one could >> potentially launch single-user mode with verbosity on and ACPI = disabled (if >> one so desired). >=20 > This is good. I think DFly already does this and I had a low priority = item on=20 > my todo list to eventually implement this in the current menu myself. >=20 I think you'll like the Forth code that I've written. I strived to keep = it clean and modular. IMHO I feel that it's really easy to = change/enhance/extend based on the menu mechanics as seen in "menu.rc", = and "include/menu-commands.4th". > --=20 > John Baldwin --=20 Cheers, Devin Teske -> LEGAL DISCLAIMER <- This message contains confidential and proprietary information of the sender, and is intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by any other person is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the e-mail sender immediately, and delete the original message without making a copy. -> FUN STUFF <- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GAT/CS/B/CC/E/IT/MC/M/MU/P/S/TW d+(++) s: a- C+++@$ UB++++$ P++++@$ = L++++$ E- W+++ N? o? K? w@ O M++$ V- PS+>++ PE@ Y+ PGP-> t(+) 5? X(+) R(-) tv+ = b+>++ DI+ D+(++) G++ e>++++ h r+++ z+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ http://www.geekcode.com/ -> END TRANSMISSION <- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 17:42:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6EE106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:42:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@my.gd) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2018FC17 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:42:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxm11 with SMTP id 11so3654183fxm.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.14.137 with SMTP id g9mr4735417faa.1.1301334163480; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfleuriot-at-hi-media.com ([83.167.62.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f15sm1609081fax.34.2011.03.28.10.42.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:42:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4D90C891.2090208@my.gd> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:42:41 +0200 From: Damien Fleuriot User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> In-Reply-To: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:42:45 -0000 On 3/28/11 6:48 AM, Devin Teske wrote: > Hi fellow hackers, > > I'm designing an open-sourced replacement boot-loader for FreeBSD. I feel that the existing options in the boot-loader menu today can be whittled down significantly with a stateful menu system rather than a single-action item menu system. > > In designing the new menu, I'd like to get your opinions. From old: > > FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE: twitpic.com/4e485w > > to new: > > Replacement Boot-Loader: twitpic.com/4e46ol > > NOTE: The final release will have a single-user mode option. > > The new menu allows for more flexibility as selecting options 2 ("Boot Verbose") or 3 ("ACPI Support") independently toggles the status, updates the menu item, and redisplays the menu -- ever-waiting until the user ultimately presses ENTER, "1", or escapes to the prompt and types "boot". Thus, one could potentially launch single-user mode with verbosity on and ACPI disabled (if one so desired). > > In addition, I really tried to capture the essence of the new logo (spent months off-and-on using different conversion programs with different inputs). In the end, I found text-image.com produced the best result. I used the official freebsd.org/logo.html Standard Logo (black and white), cropped (to 122x123) and converted to jpeg with white background. I used an "Image Width" of 45 in their "Convert into ASCII" program available here: text-image.com/convert/ascii.html > > I would be distributing this as an installable package (perhaps in the ports tree if it gains popularity). I like the new looks, thanks for your efforts :) I also like Paul's idea of tying the actions (single, verbose) to letters instead of numbers. As for the comment about this "new" look not being modern enough, to be honest I for one could care less. I'm using servers, when I see this loader this usually means there's a problem or I'm anticipating one. So it looking fancy isn't really my top priority, I'd rather it be functional and well thought-out. Thanks again for your work Devin :) -- dfl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 17:44:14 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3765B106564A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:44:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C26C8FC18; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:44:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id UAA03100; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:44:11 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:44:10 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110309 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Baptiste Daroussin References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> In-Reply-To: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:44:14 -0000 on 25/03/2011 12:11 Baptiste Daroussin said the following: > Hi all, > > miwi@ launched the new thing called Experimental Call For Testing, > it's our turn :) > > Julien Laffaye (jlaffaye@) and I, helped by Philippe Pepiot (huge > contributor) have been working since the end of the last GSoC on a > rewrite of pkg_install. > > pkgng is a binary package manager written from scratch for FreeBSD. > > After a long period of technology testing, (json, tinycdb, bdb, etc) > and we now have achieved to implement the basic functionnality. We > would greatly approciate to have some feedback, wider testing, > patching, documenting etc, before implementing the higher level > features. > > pkgng is built on top of a new libpkg, which allow to deal with the database of > installed packages, to deal with remote repositories, manage packages: > creation, installation gathering informations, registering new ports. > > features supported are or will be : > > - smooth integration with bsd.port.mk (including bsd.pkg.mk line 2486) > which allow to have a bsd.port.mk which deal with both pkg_install > and pkgng. (done in alpha) > > - the register command can analyse elf files when registering a new port to > discover forgotten dependencies if necessary. (done in alpha using libelf) > > - the register command has two mode available : when dealing with old > fashion ports it just registers the package, in new mode it does > everything that would > have been done by pkg add when installing the package : should display > messages, execute post-install, execute @exec etc. (old fashion done > in the alpha) > > - pkg add supports two mode : the old fashion one (no real upgrade > support) and new one: upgrade scripts supported. (old fashion in the > alpha) > > - new scripts supported +PREINSTALL +POSTINSTALL, +PREDEINSTALL, > +POSTDEINSTALL, +PREUPGRADE, +POSTUPGRADE as well as the old fashion > scripts : +INSTALL +DEINSTALL +UPGRADE (all supported *UPGRADES aren't > supported in the alpha) > > - new +MANIFEST (plist-like format) with new metadatas : options, arch, os > version, etc. (done in the alpha) > > - pkgng supports checking arch of the package which means that users > won't be able to install sparc64 binary package into amd64 machines. > (not done yet) > > - a special architecture "all" allows to specify when a package can be used > on every architecture. (not done yet) > > - @dirrm and @dirrmtry are now deprecated, pkgng can discover itself > which directory has to be removed. (done in the alpha but needs love > :)) > > - new repository (apt-like feature) (only the repository generation is done) > > - real support for reverse dependency (no ugly +REQUIRED_BY) (done in the alpha) > > - test unit (libcheck) on libpkg. (done in the alpha needs some more love) > > - many more Perhaps I am too impatient :) but I would like to inquire about the following features: I. A provides/requires interface for packages. Each package specified a list of files (and perhaps other entities) that it provides and requires. At the initial stage, without ports modifications, these could be: (1) a list of all files installed by package for provides; (2) for requires - an auto-generated list of dependencies based on required shared libraries plus dependency specifications in ports. I think that this kind of interface should help with using alternatives that provide the same interface (e.g. like gamin vs fam). II. Package signing. III. Package naming that includes architecture, major OS version (for API/ABI), maybe more. IV. "Convenient" support for i386 packages on amd64. Distinct installation directories, proper installation conflict detection/avoidance between i386 and amd64 packages, proper library paths, etc. And finally some exotic ideas - support for multiple package sources (when different people build packages in different ways (e.g. with different options, or different optimizations) from the same ports tree; support for multiple ports sources.(when people maintain different ports tree (e.g. kde or gnome development ports tree)). Perhaps, with some compatibility/hierarchy support for packages and ports sources. But that's almost a pipe dream, so don't take it seriously :) -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 17:52:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7491065670; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:52:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from exprod7og126.obsmtp.com (exprod7og126.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.206]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0FBA8FC1B; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:52:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob126.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTZDK5fwLKjaAAepvPG/3cqWEJ0D7AEGh@postini.com; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:52:38 PDT Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:48:54 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:50:21 -0400 From: Andrew Duane To: Andriy Gapon , Alexander Best Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:50:20 -0400 Thread-Topic: New Boot-Loader Thread-Index: AcvtP/02uqptnXDpQZSq2LQ3yHcAQgAMF+IQ Message-ID: References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> <4D90785C.1010802@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4D90785C.1010802@freebsd.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: RE: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:52:39 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freeb= sd.org] On Behalf Of Andriy Gapon Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:00 AM To: Alexander Best Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader Please note that graphical loaders are not very serial console friendly ;-) --=20 Andriy Gapon Amen, and we have a whole lot of platforms that are only serial consoles (a= nd 9600 baud at that). Also, I like the letters instead of numbers for boot options, for those of = us that have known for years that "s" is single user mode, "v" is verbose, = etc.... =A0................................... Andrew Duane Juniper Networks o=A0=A0=A0+1 978 589 0551 m=A0 +1 603-770-7088 aduane@juniper.net =A0 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 17:59:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C82AB106566C; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:59:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DDD8FC1A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:59:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so3614451wyf.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=60OnWn0HjweAirr4pnE/xbyGjooXV91MZuYEWHTZg3s=; b=uHQnRNy2n/PG1K4mKPAXRU6wWcrDNBzmUvtpJBwF7oH+f4Ms4s7jyziPPggQf1dgbO 6Wu+IftsRC8a4Vp8jE4sI3bfYAech2SYPHNT7GsZvBoqgXoKTPPpAbSncDKbChuZNNYJ xbaQMJOyHiOu+Ob8N8xbFQpiqnz1f0C//4emM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=h7Wrb9m0b56SQkC4mVUA2Kunp6GPFePyiF3LMk9716O9oKJfjsdF1iZjyfpuYZWjJH T4KyF7PvfJbgkA+MmL2Slg6MCTyhKUBYLrXRPSMw9Q813i0DhqGiWiuWzz8uXFgjX+Ay cARcufbiLP1qx4OBmzLJ/WCCi/DvobN3O2WEc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.217.7.66 with SMTP id z44mr3676901wes.100.1301335157735; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Sender: yanegomi@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.173.142 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: uG7d0O3NGdtpDgicYCvc80felmY Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:59:19 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 25/03/2011 12:11 Baptiste Daroussin said the following: >> Hi all, >> >> miwi@ launched the new thing called Experimental Call For Testing, >> it's our turn :) >> >> Julien Laffaye (jlaffaye@) and I, helped by Philippe Pepiot (huge >> contributor) have been working since the end of the last GSoC on a >> rewrite of pkg_install. >> >> pkgng is a binary package manager written from scratch for FreeBSD. >> >> After a long period of technology testing, (json, tinycdb, bdb, etc) >> and we now have achieved to implement the basic functionnality. We >> would greatly approciate to have some feedback, wider testing, >> patching, documenting etc, before implementing the higher level >> features. >> >> pkgng is built on top of a new libpkg, which allow to deal with the data= base of >> installed packages, to deal with remote repositories, manage packages: >> creation, installation gathering informations, registering new ports. >> >> features supported are or will be : >> >> - smooth integration with bsd.port.mk (including bsd.pkg.mk line 2486) >> which allow =A0to have a bsd.port.mk which deal with both pkg_install >> and pkgng. (done in alpha) >> >> - the register command can analyse elf files when registering a new port= to >> discover forgotten dependencies if necessary. (done in alpha using libel= f) >> >> - the register command has two mode available : when dealing with old >> fashion ports it just registers the package, in new mode it does >> everything that would >> have been done by pkg add when installing the package : should display >> messages, =A0execute post-install, execute @exec etc. (old fashion done >> in the alpha) >> >> - pkg add supports two mode : the old fashion one (no real upgrade >> support) and =A0new one: upgrade scripts supported. (old fashion in the >> alpha) >> >> - new scripts supported +PREINSTALL +POSTINSTALL, +PREDEINSTALL, >> +POSTDEINSTALL, +PREUPGRADE, +POSTUPGRADE as well as the old fashion >> scripts : +INSTALL +DEINSTALL +UPGRADE (all supported *UPGRADES aren't >> supported in the alpha) >> >> - new +MANIFEST (plist-like format) with new metadatas : options, arch, = os >> version, etc. (done in the alpha) >> >> - pkgng supports checking arch of the package which means that users >> won't be able to install sparc64 binary package into amd64 machines. >> (not done yet) >> >> - a special architecture "all" allows to specify when a package can be u= sed >> on every architecture. (not done yet) >> >> - @dirrm and @dirrmtry are now deprecated, pkgng can discover itself >> which directory has to be removed. (done in the alpha but needs love >> :)) >> >> - new repository (apt-like feature) (only the repository generation is d= one) >> >> - real support for reverse dependency (no ugly +REQUIRED_BY) (done in th= e alpha) >> >> - test unit (libcheck) on libpkg. (done in the alpha needs some more lov= e) >> >> - many more > > Perhaps I am too impatient :) but I would like to inquire about the follo= wing > features: > > I. A provides/requires interface for packages. > Each package specified a list of files (and perhaps other entities) that = it > provides and requires. =A0At the initial stage, without ports modificatio= ns, these > could be: (1) a list of all files installed by package for provides; (2) = for > requires - an auto-generated list of dependencies based on required share= d > libraries plus dependency specifications in ports. > I think that this kind of interface should help with using alternatives t= hat > provide the same interface (e.g. like gamin vs fam). > > II. Package signing. That would be really nice. > III. Package naming that includes architecture, major OS version (for API= /ABI), > maybe more. This could be provided in the manifest. Doing it in the filename sort of turns into a mess, as I've discovered working at Cisco :). > IV. "Convenient" support for i386 packages on amd64. > Distinct installation directories, proper installation conflict > detection/avoidance between i386 and amd64 packages, proper library paths= , etc. There are other architectures that would benefit from this as well, like powerpc 32-bit on 64-bit, MIPs 32-bit on n32, etc. This involves more work than pkgng could provide IIRC as build infrastructure would need to be fixed to look at and link against usr/lib32 instead of usr/lib, unless you mean to rewrite the linker stuff at install-time. > And finally some exotic ideas - support for multiple package sources (whe= n > different people build packages in different ways (e.g. with different op= tions, or > different optimizations) from the same ports tree; support for multiple p= orts > sources.(when people maintain different ports tree (e.g. kde or gnome dev= elopment > ports tree)). =A0Perhaps, with some compatibility/hierarchy support for p= ackages and > ports sources. =A0But that's almost a pipe dream, so don't take it seriou= sly :) It would be nice. That's a request in the same general area that Gentoo portage's overlay goes into, but I think that would require rewriting certain bits of ports infrastructure to be extensible, not extend pkgng in this area. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:07:43 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53677106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:07:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com (imr-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.105.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152B48FC18 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:07:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (imo-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.139]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2SHvPD3023760 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:57:25 -0400 Received: from dieterbsd@engineer.com by imo-ma04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id n.1098.1471c06 (45278) for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dd01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dd01.mx.aol.com [205.188.84.129]) by cia-mc03.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC038-d3e64d90cbfb2b0; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:57:22 -0400 Received: from web-mmc-d02 (web-mmc-d02.sim.aol.com [205.188.103.68]) by smtprly-dd01.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDD012-d3e64d90cbfb2b0; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:57:15 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:57:15 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 67.206.163.248 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Mail.com Webmail 33456-STANDARD Received: from 67.206.163.248 by web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.103.68) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:57:15 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: dieterbsd@engineer.com Cc: Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:07:43 -0000 > And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime > was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a symlink, > I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it > could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up > scripts. I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:10:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3391F1065674 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:10:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD87B8FC12 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:10:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so3625894wyf.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:10:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ks3wG877BDvyosB8jdRn93pfRmw5PbZcLl6BUPi3cYI=; b=donjcvxRaVHF/dNdnATlMvGZg5eNQqJNeIHco4/KPxXhYjrdx/CnMxXWxJOnymS3oH HrHz4tDsWcPJg6QBa/KZq0aEKGeZ4lk2sV9VNpQhvOLmN8Wtv48LdzGW1h7OddjRhXUR 8wGWz3YXjcDccWU9m+SP0L2ObF8nfDhCI5CW8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=F7I/Oi9ILUZyZeAl9YkCuq2z5oM8aQpawFl/iNNxnFVQ5RQce1ByfBMVZIrAEvn7uA m5oPMnMsXbZ10E0RLPMv1SNxtwBTfecl+iiLtnPdL64xwK/Jrf2WQ2ywqRYVmeuOuIKV 3CIjxk8cl8sfSiHZZlRjuJOpqk+kgxUR10FHI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.143.96 with SMTP id k74mr2955007wej.100.1301335842607; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Sender: yanegomi@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.173.142 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:10:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:10:42 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: vdB3vUYzWnLNTc_1a-btnQII8ew Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:10:44 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:57 AM, wrote: >> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime >> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a symlink, >> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it >> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up >> scripts. > > I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. +1. Many Linux distros do the same thing as well (Gentoo is just one example). Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:11:26 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB89C106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:11:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (imr-mb02.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.163]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD11B8FC22 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:11:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2SHxjB7020653 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:59:45 -0400 Received: from dieterbsd@engineer.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id n.1067.1eebf12 (43966) for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.1]) by cia-dd02.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIADD027-d1c04d90cc68165; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:59:35 -0400 Received: from web-mmc-d02 (web-mmc-d02.sim.aol.com [205.188.103.68]) by smtprly-dc01.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC011-d1c04d90cc68165; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:59:04 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:59:04 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 67.206.163.248 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mailer: Mail.com Webmail 33456-STANDARD Received: from 67.206.163.248 by web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.103.68) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:59:04 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDBB88F5DC1A16-11D4-3257@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: dieterbsd@engineer.com Cc: Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:11:27 -0000 > Please note that graphical loaders are not very serial console=20 friendly ;-) Yes! Real computers have RS-232 consoles. And please stick with plain ASCII text. The current bootloader is at best ugly and at worst unusable on some terminals. AFAIK the bootloader doesn't have termcap/terminfo available. The default needs to work everywhere. A bootloader does not need to be=20 pretty. If you want a pretty bootloader, put it off to the side and those who=20 both can and want to run it can enable it once the basics are running. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:12:05 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040671065672 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:12:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com (imr-db01.mx.aol.com [205.188.91.95]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99AC8FC27 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:12:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2SI4o3J001957 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:04:50 -0400 Received: from dieterbsd@engineer.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id n.f18.144ea774 (45501) for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.97]) by cia-mc08.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC088-d3c84d90cda02cf; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:04:46 -0400 Received: from web-mmc-d02 (web-mmc-d02.sim.aol.com [205.188.103.68]) by smtprly-mc01.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMC012-d3c84d90cda02cf; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:04:16 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:04:16 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 67.206.163.248 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: Mail.com Webmail 33456-STANDARD Received: from 67.206.163.248 by web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.103.68) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:04:16 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDBB89AFEB53D6-11D4-32C9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: dieterbsd@engineer.com Cc: Subject: multi-boot bootstrap? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:12:05 -0000 The discussion of a new bootloader reminded me of the following problem: What we need more than a new bootloader is a new bootstrap. With MBR, NetBSD's boot selector MBR works reasonably well. (About as well as can be expected given the limited space available.) You get a menu of partitions ("slices" in FreeBSD-speak) and can enter a number to select which one you want to boot. If you don't enter anything it times out and boots the default. You can boot a different disk by pressing F1, F2, F3 ... example: Fn: diskn 1: NBSD4.0 2: NB5.0.1 3: FBSD7.1 4: FBSD8.2 The menu labels are limited to 7 chars due to the limited space available in the MBR. But, disks larger than 2 GiB need to be GPT rather than MBR. I haven't found a bootstrap with similar functionality for GPT. GPT allows a larger bootstrap than MBR. So the bootstrap can be nicer. Firmware disk numbering is completely insane on some machines. So spare the poor user from having to guess which disk is which number today. Go through all the disks and look for bootable partitions. Extract the GPT partition labels for these partitions. Present a menu of choices. example: Enter the menu number for the partition you wish to boot. The default will automatically boot in 5 seconds. 1: FreeBSD 7.1 2: FreeBSD 8.2 (default) 3: NetBSD 4.0 4: NetBSD 5.0.1 5: OpenBSD 6: Plan 9 7: reboot back to firmware Boot: As with the boot loader, this needs to work on all machines, and all terminals (without having termcap/terminfo), so just plain ASCII text, no graphics. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:22:51 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C18106566B; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:22:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julien.laffaye@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED4C8FC1B; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:22:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so1473366gwb.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:22:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FiJyZiWQhexMEb319Rp+iOUWRjf+zrl1AKPTrQApFzk=; b=xbUXQXMIu8TuTsrgre5D1NPt3fihcNSsXUXwkKHMUNiu2pEt7Z+VmSWBtkVbdszKMb 5l5dIw4n2bYvCsNlGc1tmhUL7h1kRvs+PsYeJW5xpR3NsT/XHPb46JU22FC2+rcIU8+1 8VV9RKbI/OHW4M7aG9auMUkU+njozKHanONAA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=W0oV5On5viZhBo2KtPJfNwwq48jF6tPzcoNdB7rfJFwNLkHVPMwjxK3K9mMHD34qXZ el2uppDwbNSqG5/HzFT+rv033edPG3OkBsa4P5GLzAJ69qqjb5kVjGEqyv8jcdzUYVVv xOznnos91d9m49G5k2jOgM/NcVm4xOD3EoXi0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.79.161 with SMTP id i21mr1974880yhe.335.1301336570652; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Sender: julien.laffaye@gmail.com Received: by 10.236.105.212 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:22:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:22:49 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: iv0oU_Eqzu1Nuv9WifXOZY_qfOY Message-ID: From: Julien Laffaye To: Garrett Cooper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , hackers@freebsd.org, Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:22:52 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote= : > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> on 25/03/2011 12:11 Baptiste Daroussin said the following: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> miwi@ launched the new thing called Experimental Call For Testing, >>> it's our turn :) >>> >>> Julien Laffaye (jlaffaye@) and I, helped by Philippe Pepiot (huge >>> contributor) have been working since the end of the last GSoC on a >>> rewrite of pkg_install. >>> >>> pkgng is a binary package manager written from scratch for FreeBSD. >>> >>> After a long period of technology testing, (json, tinycdb, bdb, etc) >>> and we now have achieved to implement the basic functionnality. We >>> would greatly approciate to have some feedback, wider testing, >>> patching, documenting etc, before implementing the higher level >>> features. >>> >>> pkgng is built on top of a new libpkg, which allow to deal with the dat= abase of >>> installed packages, to deal with remote repositories, manage packages: >>> creation, installation gathering informations, registering new ports. >>> >>> features supported are or will be : >>> >>> - smooth integration with bsd.port.mk (including bsd.pkg.mk line 2486) >>> which allow =A0to have a bsd.port.mk which deal with both pkg_install >>> and pkgng. (done in alpha) >>> >>> - the register command can analyse elf files when registering a new por= t to >>> discover forgotten dependencies if necessary. (done in alpha using libe= lf) >>> >>> - the register command has two mode available : when dealing with old >>> fashion ports it just registers the package, in new mode it does >>> everything that would >>> have been done by pkg add when installing the package : should display >>> messages, =A0execute post-install, execute @exec etc. (old fashion done >>> in the alpha) >>> >>> - pkg add supports two mode : the old fashion one (no real upgrade >>> support) and =A0new one: upgrade scripts supported. (old fashion in the >>> alpha) >>> >>> - new scripts supported +PREINSTALL +POSTINSTALL, +PREDEINSTALL, >>> +POSTDEINSTALL, +PREUPGRADE, +POSTUPGRADE as well as the old fashion >>> scripts : +INSTALL +DEINSTALL +UPGRADE (all supported *UPGRADES aren't >>> supported in the alpha) >>> >>> - new +MANIFEST (plist-like format) with new metadatas : options, arch,= os >>> version, etc. (done in the alpha) >>> >>> - pkgng supports checking arch of the package which means that users >>> won't be able to install sparc64 binary package into amd64 machines. >>> (not done yet) >>> >>> - a special architecture "all" allows to specify when a package can be = used >>> on every architecture. (not done yet) >>> >>> - @dirrm and @dirrmtry are now deprecated, pkgng can discover itself >>> which directory has to be removed. (done in the alpha but needs love >>> :)) >>> >>> - new repository (apt-like feature) (only the repository generation is = done) >>> >>> - real support for reverse dependency (no ugly +REQUIRED_BY) (done in t= he alpha) >>> >>> - test unit (libcheck) on libpkg. (done in the alpha needs some more lo= ve) >>> >>> - many more >> >> Perhaps I am too impatient :) but I would like to inquire about the foll= owing >> features: >> >> I. A provides/requires interface for packages. >> Each package specified a list of files (and perhaps other entities) that= it >> provides and requires. =A0At the initial stage, without ports modificati= ons, these >> could be: (1) a list of all files installed by package for provides; (2)= for >> requires - an auto-generated list of dependencies based on required shar= ed >> libraries plus dependency specifications in ports. >> I think that this kind of interface should help with using alternatives = that >> provide the same interface (e.g. like gamin vs fam). Adding require/provide support in pkgng is kind of trivial. But ports have to support it first. >> >> II. Package signing. > > That would be really nice. Right know we only planned to sign the repo database, so we can trust the sah256 of the packages stored in the database. Then if the package has the same sha256 as the one in the repo database it is considered trusted. If we want a per-package signing, we would have a tarball in a tarball. > >> III. Package naming that includes architecture, major OS version (for AP= I/ABI), >> maybe more. > > This could be provided in the manifest. Doing it in the filename sort > of turns into a mess, as I've discovered working at Cisco :). > Actually, it *is* in the +MANIFEST of pkgng packages archives :-) >> IV. "Convenient" support for i386 packages on amd64. >> Distinct installation directories, proper installation conflict >> detection/avoidance between i386 and amd64 packages, proper library path= s, etc. > > There are other architectures that would benefit from this as well, > like powerpc 32-bit on 64-bit, MIPs 32-bit on n32, etc. > > This involves more work than pkgng could provide IIRC as build > infrastructure would need to be fixed to look at and link against > usr/lib32 instead of usr/lib, unless you mean to rewrite the linker > stuff at install-time. I dont think we are going that way right now... > >> And finally some exotic ideas - support for multiple package sources (wh= en >> different people build packages in different ways (e.g. with different o= ptions, or >> different optimizations) from the same ports tree; support for multiple = ports >> sources.(when people maintain different ports tree (e.g. kde or gnome de= velopment >> ports tree)). =A0Perhaps, with some compatibility/hierarchy support for = packages and >> ports sources. =A0But that's almost a pipe dream, so don't take it serio= usly :) > > It would be nice. That's a request in the same general area that > Gentoo portage's overlay goes into, but I think that would require > rewriting certain bits of ports infrastructure to be extensible, not > extend pkgng in this area. Well, I think we are doing the basics first. We will see later. BTW, the +MANIFEST file contains the options a package was built with. > > Thanks, > -Garrett > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:30:28 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36450106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226D58FC0C for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:30:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.82.228.121] (port=51976 helo=[192.168.1.113]) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4HCg-0004ha-As; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:30:16 -0700 References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8G4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8G4) From: Devin Teske Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:30:19 -0700 To: "dieterbsd@engineer.com" X-Scan-Signature: c5d7df42d79519c38ac32c0d302a8f6b X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:30:28 -0000 Sent from my iPad On Mar 28, 2011, at 10:57 AM, dieterbsd@engineer.com wrote: >> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime >> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a symlink, >> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it >> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up >> scripts. >=20 > I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. >=20 The one (and only) problem that I've seen from using a symlink for /etc/loca= ltime is that -- since the /usr partition is not mounted early-on -- boot me= ssages get logged in GMT offset until /usr is mounted. However, some simply ignore this. -- Devin >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:45:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C09E106564A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:45:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from max@mxcrypt.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f182.google.com (mail-gx0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DE968FC19; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:45:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gxk28 with SMTP id 28so1466285gxk.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.185.135 with SMTP id u7mr5681972yhm.232.1301336551216; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:22:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.146.209.3 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:22:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> From: Maxim Khitrov Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:22:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: Garrett Cooper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@engineer.com, Doug Barton Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:45:19 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote= : > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:57 AM, =C2=A0 wrote: >>> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime >>> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a symlink, >>> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it >>> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up >>> scripts. >> >> I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being >> a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. > > +1. Many Linux distros do the same thing as well (Gentoo is just one exam= ple). > Thanks, > -Garrett Same here, though I'd be happy to change this habit if mergemaster handled the updates for me. If you do end up using /var/db/zoneinfo in mergemaster, keep two things in = mind: 1. /var/db/zoneinfo may not exist because tzsetup was never used (/etc/localtime may or may not exist). 2. /etc/localtime may be a symlink to /usr/share/zoneinfo/... In the first case, you would need to ask the user which zoneinfo file to use, or just run tzsetup for them. In the second case, you should confirm that the user wants to replace the symlink with a copy. In both cases, verify that /var/db/zoneinfo reflects current configuration (create it, if necessary). - Max From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:51:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C0A51065670 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:51:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-ew0-f54.google.com (mail-ew0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DAD48FC08 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:51:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so1408774ewy.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:51:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.4.210 with SMTP id 18mr2146635ebs.38.1301336762179; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.17.78 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:26:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:26:02 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:51:40 -0000 2011/3/28 : >> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime >> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a symlink, >> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it >> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up >> scripts. > > I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. The symlink's target is in /usr (/usr/share/zoneinfo/), which is separated in the default partition layout. But both /etc/rc.d/adjkerntz and /usr/src/UPDATING require mounting filesystems before calling adjkerntz, so it should be ok. --=20 Olivier Smedts=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 _ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - against HTML email & vCards=A0 X www: http://www.gid0.org=A0 =A0 - against proprietary attachments / \ =A0 "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : =A0 ceux qui comprennent le binaire, =A0 et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:54:46 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BDBE1065670 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:54:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from reichert@numachi.com) Received: from meisai.numachi.com (meisai.numachi.com [198.175.254.6]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5E9878FC18 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:54:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 36259 invoked by uid 1001); 28 Mar 2011 18:28:03 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:28:03 -0400 From: Brian Reichert To: Garrett Cooper Message-ID: <20110328182803.GF86409@numachi.com> References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@engineer.com Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:54:46 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:10:42AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:57 AM, wrote: > > I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > > a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. > > +1. Many Linux distros do the same thing as well (Gentoo is just one example). RedHat is a counter-example. Parts of the kernel are not timezone aware, and seem to be hard-coded to use whatever TZ the hardware clock is in. The symptom I was running into was that the kernel's timestamps were waffling back-and-forth during the boot process. I was making use of a symlink, but the timezone data was on a different partition from the root parition. RedHat's support officially said "don't use a symlink", as any process started before the 'real' TZ files were available would reckon time differently when printing timestamps. Lots of people got bit by this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=91228 YMMV. > Thanks, > -Garrett > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Brian Reichert BSD admin/developer at large From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 18:58:07 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0311106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:58:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BBD8FC14 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:58:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vxc34 with SMTP id 34so3119367vxc.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:58:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=uDM0+wjYjBS2KllhNAS8XTSFQ9q85DCbahegy2DBqEE=; b=xbdeahIPEe1g8vvucxGLJ6+FeKAdpReKqhsJuPabwPvR9IbNpKPNKjNNfMisrIDWfH 5F5lbP498COMk/Lpx6Tu3G2gp9x7zt5Oo5UrwbT8IqJBJIO0KCqY2BsFTFD/tGS7xetJ sgKP4YlaqO6wONJZP9UnfOE9q3KDMIwf0/qMQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=pKtBXO6oaJzPk7JYHWPnoTczn20MEC87WkvrbHZQuFcotphynm8sWcvLVYdnybmWOv iw+iXbP8n+e6XGfiQdIj/EPieyE3kbMDFlvCmRclwUypDYF8l06BzbPFi/FIrBM+OJCP dMDArSn/vWVt4fTn9+OiTFrHtyP1E5TokjAus= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.91.204 with SMTP id cg12mr5824272vdb.278.1301337062188; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.194.77 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:31:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CDBB89AFEB53D6-11D4-32C9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDBB89AFEB53D6-11D4-32C9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:31:01 -0400 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multi-boot bootstrap? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:58:07 -0000 Now, how are you going to multiboot OpenBSD and NetBSD on a PowerPC machine from the same hard disk. From what I know, one or the other can only be as the first entry and it then has to be set from the forth prompt. So, you will need two disks to boot , saya: OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD, Linux, and MacOSX or a combination of these. On PPC boxes with OpenFirmware 3.x, you actually need to set the active partition if you want to boot Linux and/or freebsd from the forth prompt if both are on the same disk. You would need to reprogram the OpenBoot prompt on the UltraSPARC boxes. No one on the FreeBSD hacker list does any forth programming. If such was true, I would have had a few questions answered long ago. On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 2:04 PM, wrote: > The discussion of a new bootloader reminded me of the > following problem: > > What we need more than a new bootloader is a new bootstrap. > With MBR, NetBSD's boot selector MBR works reasonably well. > (About as well as can be expected given the limited space available.) > You get a menu of partitions ("slices" in FreeBSD-speak) > and can enter a number to select which one you want to boot. > If you don't enter anything it times out and boots the default. > You can boot a different disk by pressing F1, F2, F3 ... > > example: > Fn: diskn > 1: NBSD4.0 > 2: NB5.0.1 > 3: FBSD7.1 > 4: FBSD8.2 > > The menu labels are limited to 7 chars due to the limited space > available in the MBR. > > But, disks larger than 2 GiB need to be GPT rather than MBR. > I haven't found a bootstrap with similar functionality for GPT. > > GPT allows a larger bootstrap than MBR. So the bootstrap can > be nicer. Firmware disk numbering is completely insane on some > machines. So spare the poor user from having to guess which > disk is which number today. Go through all the disks and look > for bootable partitions. Extract the GPT partition labels for > these partitions. Present a menu of choices. > > example: > Enter the menu number for the partition you wish to boot. > The default will automatically boot in 5 seconds. > > 1: FreeBSD 7.1 > 2: FreeBSD 8.2 (default) > 3: NetBSD 4.0 > 4: NetBSD 5.0.1 > 5: OpenBSD > 6: Plan 9 > 7: reboot back to firmware > > Boot: > > As with the boot loader, this needs to work on all machines, > and all terminals (without having termcap/terminfo), so just plain > ASCII text, no graphics. > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 19:08:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732C1106564A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:08:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhelfman@experts-exchange.com) Received: from mail.experts-exchange.com (mail.experts-exchange.com [72.29.183.251]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5118FC0C; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:08:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.experts-exchange.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.experts-exchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3041B743CD6; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:51:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=e-e.com; h= user-agent:in-reply-to:content-disposition:content-type :content-type:mime-version:references:message-id:subject:subject :from:from:date:date:received:received:received; s=ee; t= 1301338316; x=1303152716; bh=Vp2Tcou6xwOlvDfq4VkcYaCznCW6K1fhUO5 Wn5sI8WM=; b=YJTHbsplsyvJ+TZujipE/hcpHbpNoGzU3Uw9BVV4hyeZUGMwplk NGfbAYC1fM1eUNZTtIVZStXDyD3b9X39rdxtMDe3C4d2M5LWRzxieC5QIb3v3Rdw WlCsuhc2akZPSArysU3eUmZxzMcYmOdhTqM1P901GHIN02dWY7nWRFyM= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at experts-exchange.com Received: from mail.experts-exchange.com ([127.0.0.1]) by mail.experts-exchange.com (mail.experts-exchange.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXckYf4mBNJX; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from experts-exchange.com (unknown [72.29.180.81]) by mail.experts-exchange.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E83FD743CD3; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (nullmailer pid 83344 invoked by uid 1001); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:48:27 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:48:27 -0700 From: Jason Helfman To: Maxim Khitrov Message-ID: <20110328184827.GE50654@eggman.experts-exchange.com> References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE X-Living-The-Dream: I love the SLO Life! User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Doug Barton , hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@engineer.com, Garrett Cooper Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:08:50 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 02:22:01PM -0400, Maxim Khitrov thus spake: >Same here, though I'd be happy to change this habit if mergemaster >handled the updates for me. > This would be a good solution for source updates, but how would this work for binary upgrades via freebsd-update, as mergemaster is not used for this operation. -jgh -- Jason Helfman System Administrator experts-exchange.com http://www.experts-exchange.com/M_4830110.html E4AD 7CF1 1396 27F6 79DD 4342 5E92 AD66 8C8C FBA5 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 19:28:46 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05507106564A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:28:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B1B48FC16; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:28:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vxc34 with SMTP id 34so3152808vxc.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:28:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=tEZPafzIJqINBTTwBbeQLG4HdDo1KWPUCgDJiiAXHFA=; b=GGyhYXfJQ6QmzBmABy1po3p6GNKfDeOkwES3ZtsK7MBiYvbXIWprDXbWGren1tjbRY XVyr3zhTmGSaUdK4V64MP7s0L3erFOMmhEMTYdUd0Ak8goYswVP9nUAOYBlTgxQ5eMol /7Ev4X4q9d3vmvY4r0ZuJ7Y1xsgVM/NZG9064= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=PtoL/xJYJJiIfZ3obEPlkwDvCG5q62DSyVdXuzfkOI+yJjzN2X5gZe5AUzz1O7Hxn2 6JqcJvx68hvijC3qndF5cqIFdwlLYp5pEEfiRk+OCvN20pZpIRo21MiA+t8Yz3pCtib9 RXvMy101x4ga5OYOCOL85B0yVuslx+mC9Pgt0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.70.140 with SMTP id m12mr5926501vdu.238.1301340524791; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.194.77 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:28:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:28:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: Garrett Cooper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:28:46 -0000 Go through the mailing lists. You can only boot 64bit on 64bit and 32bit on 32bit for FreeBSD. Debian needs to boot a 64bit kernel for 64bit machines. I made the reply because that is similar to the BTX bootloader. Let Baptiste get a powerpc machine and try using that bootloader, it won't work. It won't work on sparc (64/ultra), and it won't work on arm. On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Super Bisquit > wrote: > > The ppc 32bit series does not boot directly into the boot loader prompt. > You > > have to: > > A) Hold logo+opt+o+f and then > > 1) setenv boot-device hd# > > 2) mac-boot > > 3) Wait for the boot sequence to allow you to make interaction > > 4) Hit the space bar and then type boot -s > > B) > > 1) Hold down the option key. > > 2) Wait, and choose the icon of harddisk. > > 3) Follow 3 and 4 above > > C) If you have more than one installation, set the current device you > want > > to be active from the OF prompt and then: > > 1) Follow 3 and 4 from A above. > > > > Unless he is going to write that script in forth, you can count out both > > PowerPC(32 and 64) and UltraSPARC boxes. > > > > If you can get the BTX loader to work on the architectures I just > mentioned, > > let me know, because the rest of us can't. > > Huh? This seems way outside of what I was referring to. > The powerpc64 architecture does support 32-bit on 64-bit (biarch) > support. Whether or not it's supported in FreeBSD I don't remember. > Thanks, > -Garrett > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 19:33:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E1C106566B; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:33:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1848FC0A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:33:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.82.228.150] (port=54760) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4IBZ-0007KD-DF; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:33:11 -0700 From: Devin Teske To: Jason Helfman In-Reply-To: <20110328184827.GE50654@eggman.experts-exchange.com> References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> <20110328184827.GE50654@eggman.experts-exchange.com> Organization: VICOR, Inc. Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:33:30 -0700 Message-ID: <1301340810.8488.0.camel@dt.vicor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 X-Scan-Signature: 6ba0ac589ca79779b211b84feabcacb6 X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="cp1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Maxim Khitrov , Doug Barton , dieterbsd@engineer.com, Garrett Cooper Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:33:23 -0000 On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 11:48 -0700, Jason Helfman wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 02:22:01PM -0400, Maxim Khitrov thus spake: > >Same here, though I'd be happy to change this habit if mergemaster > >handled the updates for me. > > > This would be a good solution for source updates, but how would this work > for binary upgrades via freebsd-update, as mergemaster is not used for this > operation. How we solved this back in 2006 when Congress altered the times that Daylight Saving is observed, we pushed out an internal package that: ( Before Installation ) 1a. If /etc/localtime is a symbolic link, proceed to installation (no update needed). 1b. If /etc/localtime is a binary file,... 2. Compare /etc/localtime against each locale in /usr/share/zoneinfo 3. If you find a match, "remember" which timezone matched ( After Installation ) 4. If /etc/localtime was binary and matched some locale in /usr/share/zoneinfo, copy updated zoneinfo to /etc/localtime (overwriting the current file). -- Devin > > -jgh > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 20:22:24 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83CC9106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:22:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthias.andree@gmx.de) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CE2DC8FC08 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:22:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 28 Mar 2011 20:22:22 -0000 Received: from g227147053.adsl.alicedsl.de (EHLO apollo.emma.line.org) [92.227.147.53] by mail.gmx.net (mp070) with SMTP; 28 Mar 2011 22:22:22 +0200 X-Authenticated: #428038 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19I0sh6dfRIIl0tiR0YpDyslDZkGbJ8bdVNSOyBpN iXZ+Hwe7GbEv/I Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [IPv6:::1]) by apollo.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE6125AD87 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:22:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4D90EDFD.8070402@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:22:21 +0200 From: Matthias Andree User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110223 Mnenhy/0.8.3 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:22:24 -0000 Am 28.03.2011 19:57, schrieb dieterbsd@engineer.com: >> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime >> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a symlink, >> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it >> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up >> scripts. > > I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. In that case, /etc and /usr/share/timezone (or whatever) need to be in the same physical file system. Adds interesting software effects for those file systems where a directory is a filesystem with its own dev and thereabouts, such as AFS. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 20:52:46 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DF4F106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:52:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (imr-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC5B8FC15 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:52:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2SKqejd002243 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:52:40 -0400 Received: from dieterbsd@engineer.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id n.cdb.7a4d1507 (55742) for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:52:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com [64.12.143.156]) by cia-md05.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD051-d4394d90f51220d; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:52:38 -0400 Received: from web-mmc-d02 (web-mmc-d02.sim.aol.com [205.188.103.68]) by smtprly-md03.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMD038-d4394d90f51220d; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:52:34 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:52:34 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 67.206.165.10 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mailer: Mail.com Webmail 33456-STANDARD Received: from 67.206.165.10 by web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.103.68) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:52:34 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDBBA132D81656-11D4-4261@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: dieterbsd@engineer.com Cc: Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:52:46 -0000 >>> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime >>> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a=20 symlink, >>> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it >>> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up >>> scripts. >> >> I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being >> a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. > > The one (and only) problem that I've seen from using a symlink for > /etc/localtime is that -- since the /usr partition is not mounted > early-on -- boot messages get logged in GMT offset until /usr is=20 mounted. > > However, some simply ignore this. What boot messages are these? grep 2011 /var/run/dmesg.boot Copyright (c) 1992-2011 The FreeBSD Project. FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE #9: Sun Mar 6 18:47:36 pst 2011 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 21:00:04 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241271065672 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:00:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (imr-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.41]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2578FC15 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:00:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from imo-da04.mx.aol.com (imo-da04.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.202]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2SL00RA016201 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:00:00 -0400 Received: from dieterbsd@engineer.com by imo-da04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id n.1088.1f288c9 (55913) for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-mc03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-mc03.mx.aol.com [64.12.95.99]) by cia-md06.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD068-d3dd4d90f6c5296; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:59:57 -0400 Received: from web-mmc-d02 (web-mmc-d02.sim.aol.com [205.188.103.68]) by smtprly-mc03.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMC037-d3dd4d90f6c5296; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:59:49 -0400 To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:59:48 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-AOL-IP: 67.206.165.10 X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mailer: Mail.com Webmail 33456-STANDARD Received: from 67.206.165.10 by web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com (205.188.103.68) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:59:48 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDBBA235B59E56-11D4-42F9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag: NO X-AOL-SENDER: dieterbsd@engineer.com Cc: Subject: Re: multi-boot bootstrap? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:00:04 -0000 > Now, how are you going to multiboot OpenBSD and NetBSD on a PowerPC=20 machine > from the same hard disk. I didn't say anything about a requirement for booting multiple OSes from the same disk. I said: >> Go through all the disks and look >> for bootable partitions. Extract the GPT partition labels for >> these partitions. Present a menu of choices. There can be multiple disks. (Assuming the hardware supports that.) I haven't worked with PowerPC machines and it has been a very long time since I worked with Sparc. I'm more familiar with Alpha, which would=20 take some hacking to boot more than one OS per disk, but some rocket=20 scientist decided to drop FreeBSD support for Alpha, so I suspect that no one here cares about Alpha. > From what I know, one or the other can only be as > the first entry and it then has to be set from the forth prompt. > So, you will need two disks to boot , saya: OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD,=20 Linux, > and MacOSX or a combination of these. > > On PPC boxes with OpenFirmware 3.x, you actually need to set the=20 active > partition if you want to boot Linux and/or freebsd from the forth=20 prompt if > both are on the same disk. Can these PPC boxes boot from GPT disks? "active partition" sounds=20 MBRish. Perhaps they can use the "protective MBR" trick? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 21:11:54 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C612D1065676; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:11:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 65-241-43-5.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56E41525E0; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:11:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4D90F98E.6010101@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:11:42 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110319 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Maste References: <20110328013829.GA54785@sandvine.com> In-Reply-To: <20110328013829.GA54785@sandvine.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: edwin@freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:11:54 -0000 On 03/27/2011 18:38, Ed Maste wrote: > That's what tzsetup does in HEAD - the name of the selected timezone file > is stored in /var/db/zoneinfo, and tzsetup -r can be used to copy in an > updated file: > > -r Reinstall the zoneinfo file installed last time. The > name is obtained from /var/db/zoneinfo. > > It looks like this hasn't been MFC'd, although I'm not sure why. The > change came in from svn rev 198267 by edwin (CC'd). Edwin, Any reason not to MFC this? Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 21:20:18 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBEA106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:20:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@acm.org) Received: from mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.133.218]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728028FC0C for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:20:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-116-103.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.116.103]) by mail34.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p2SLKFT5017177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:20:16 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2SLKFdI048251; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:20:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2SLKFmU048250; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:20:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:20:14 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Jesse Smith Message-ID: <20110328212014.GC27123@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <1301189037.4069.43.camel@hp-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xesSdrSSBC0PokLI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Prebind from OpenBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:20:19 -0000 --xesSdrSSBC0PokLI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2011-Mar-27 20:54:18 +0100, Robert Watson wrote: >part of rc.d. I'd also investigate large applications like Firefox, Chrom= e,=20 >KDE, Gnome, etc. KDE already integrates prebinding tricks in its design, = but=20 >I don't think the others do. Improving startup time for large, infrequently started executables will enhance the user experience but not do a great deal for overall system performance. (And note that things like OOo, emacs and browsers have significant amounts of code in embedded scripting languages and it's unlikely that pre-binding will help much there). I suspect a bigger overall win would be gained by speeding up small but very frequently started executables - /bin/sh is the most obvious candidate here, though there are probably other candidates in /bin and /usr/bin. In this case, you need to measure how frequenctly it is started as well as the per-startup savings. For some of these executables, it's easy to get a reasonably accurate estimate of the potential pre-binding savings by comparing the speed of the existing dynamically-linked executable in /bin with the same statically-linked executable in /rescue. One thing that I'm not sure if you've take into account is process- initiated library loading (using dlopen(3) and friends). Note that even /bin/sh can do this through things like locale handling. --=20 Peter Jeremy --xesSdrSSBC0PokLI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk2Q+44ACgkQ/opHv/APuIfTvQCfQ7knXhEpQXzSSwG//jTYAOOn z4sAn2F5v0/7ZVYpcAfIkMI/6JgG92FC =gMJo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xesSdrSSBC0PokLI-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 21:40:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C76106567B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:40:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176AF8FC1D for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:40:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyj12 with SMTP id 12so5091741iyj.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:40:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6JRul60zFs2luisEvalGvBlolIXSyJXwSsRem7ysYGA=; b=SGZpw/9coyWCAMFO9Pw5HHiV6e6JO6jimRX6TceO2mjHMfk7Zn7ALAq3vosoAqEYR9 nEBi1ZIvUBhEaYw5Mf47ZbyHPtPiGDdk92QUoVjHB9LO/iSIq+6/pTXSlh8fzV8LNuYH 8bDTO1FkCfaBR7z1hr92vwcfj9qR1EnMUXC0Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=aFp4RLwVsomhn4EqjpZzu/u/sixaZOsHRuxCUbWG4rMYBaA/N0et3tzUDrlsS6coXp BAGRaZ9zfKzZIAKcDYSWU5J5PnZXlRGi7ZUFZki6/lgaLuzuFM9gOR36Ob/cNQ7IFKbL s4o7l0dB+yv5sWHpF0LV6QO7h9j60iV16h4BM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.61.65 with SMTP id s1mr4657103ibh.120.1301348418396; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.171.80 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:40:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CDBBA235B59E56-11D4-42F9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDBBA235B59E56-11D4-42F9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:40:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: dieterbsd@engineer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: multi-boot bootstrap? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:40:19 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 4:59 PM, wrote: > Now, how are you going to multiboot OpenBSD and NetBSD on a PowerPC >> > machine > >> from the same hard disk. >> > > I didn't say anything about a requirement for booting multiple OSes from the same disk. I said: Go through all the disks and look >> for bootable partitions. Extract the GPT partition labels for >> these partitions. Present a menu of choices. >> > Not that easy. > There can be multiple disks. (Assuming the hardware supports that.) > Openfirmware isn't BIOS. > I haven't worked with PowerPC machines and it has been a very long time > since I worked with Sparc. OpenFirmware is based on OpenBoot and both require forth programming. I had to reference Gentoo documentation because none of the hackers knew or knows how to change devices. By the way, SILO is the only Bootloader I know of that can multiboot on a sparc box. Linux emulation for sparc doesn't exist on freebsd, you'll be working on that yourself. > I'm more familiar with Alpha, which would take > some hacking to boot more than one OS per disk, but some rocket scientist > decided to drop FreeBSD support for Alpha, so I suspect that no one here > cares about Alpha. FreeBSD alpha needs to follow debian alpha: become a self sustaining project. > > > From what I know, one or the other can only be as >> the first entry and it then has to be set from the forth prompt. >> So, you will need two disks to boot , saya: OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD, >> > Linux, > >> and MacOSX or a combination of these. >> >> On PPC boxes with OpenFirmware 3.x, you actually need to set the >> > active > >> partition if you want to boot Linux and/or freebsd from the forth >> > prompt if > >> both are on the same disk. >> > > Can these PPC boxes boot from GPT disks? "active partition" sounds MBRish. > Perhaps they can use the "protective MBR" trick? Sorry, doesn't work like that. Linux does yaboot. FreeBSD does the bootloader Whitehorn wrote for it. OpenBSD either takes up the whole disk or you need to do a lot of hacking. NetBSD requires exact command lines to boot. Active partition on a ppc machine means that which you will boot from after the kernel is loaded. It boots from an hfs partition on which the bootloader has been dd'ed to. If you have more than one installation, you need need to set which ufs partiton is the active one by specifying on the command line. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > You're setup will be as such for a ppc machine: 1) Your bootloader on an hfs partition has to be the very first entry on each disk which is attached. 2) It will need to load Whitehorn's bootloader by using forth commands from the console. 3) Whitehorn's bootloader will need to be set from your bootloader to choose which ufs2 partition will load- in the event someone has more than one install. 4) Whitehorn's bootloader will need to be paused to allow module loading, single boot or an alternative kernel from the selected install. 5) This will need to be done for every boot. There are no slices on a ppc machine. There are partitions only. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 21:41:26 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978A5106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:41:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 65-241-43-5.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C750A14E076 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:41:24 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4D910084.1010304@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:41:24 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110319 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: Using mergemaster to keep /etc/localtime updated X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:41:26 -0000 I'm starting a new thread since while the previous one contained a lot of good information it was starting to get a big fragmented, and as someone pointed out mergemaster is not a general solution so I want to focus on the area that I'm actually responsible for. :) Having read everything in the thread (and thanks to all who contributed, btw) my current plan is to add some code to the end (in the section that deals with things like running cap_mkdb if you update login.conf) to do the following. Please let me know if this sounds reasonable, or if I'm missing something: 1. If /var/db/zoneinfo exists, check to see if /etc/localtime is the same as /usr/share/`cat /var/db/zoneinfo` and if not, prompt the user to run tzsetup. 2. If /var/db/zoneinfo does not exist, check to see if kern.osreldate is after the date that the code was added, and if so, prompt the user to run tzsetup. 3. If /var/db/zoneinfo does not exist, and the new code has not been added yet, attempt to determine the right answer, and create a /var/db/zoneinfo file. (Note, I do not look forward to writing that bit.) :) Sound reasonable? Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 22:03:43 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id 57C4B1065670; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:03:43 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110328220343.GA44745@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: src.conf(5) status/semantics X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:03:43 -0000 hi there, how hard would it be to change the *.mk code so the following semantics apply: - make.conf(5) == applies system-wide - src.conf(5) == applies only to /usr/src right now certain settings will not be picked up from src.conf(5), like CC or CXX. it seems src.conf(5)'s puspose atm is limited to setting WITHOUT_* options. as can be noticed in several questions on current@, toolchain@ and questions@, the current behavior is non-intuitive. a lot of users don't understand why certain settings inside /etc/src.conf don't get picked up when building a target such as buildkernel or buildworld. expecially in connection with switching to clang and clang++ confusion has been noticable more than once. cheers. alex -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 22:03:47 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92EB9106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:03:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CDDF8FC08 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:03:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [208.206.78.30] (port=51871 helo=dt.vicor.com) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4KX7-0004YA-NE; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:03:35 -0700 From: Devin Teske To: dieterbsd@engineer.com In-Reply-To: <8CDBBA132D81656-11D4-4261@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CDBBA132D81656-11D4-4261@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Vicor, Inc Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:03:44 -0700 Message-Id: <1301349824.26028.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.2 (2.0.2-41.el4) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scan-Signature: 0eaa64d1205dca35787182f988024f21 X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:03:47 -0000 On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 16:52 -0400, dieterbsd@engineer.com wrote: > >>> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime > >>> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a > symlink, > >>> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it > >>> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up > >>> scripts. > >> > >> I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > >> a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. > > > > The one (and only) problem that I've seen from using a symlink for > > /etc/localtime is that -- since the /usr partition is not mounted > > early-on -- boot messages get logged in GMT offset until /usr is > mounted. > > > > However, some simply ignore this. > > What boot messages are these? The messages generated during boot -- see /var/log/messages. > grep 2011 /var/run/dmesg.boot Those aren't the boot messages I'm referring to (and by convention, I would call those the "kernel boot messages" as only the kernel messages are found there). > Copyright (c) 1992-2011 The FreeBSD Project. > FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE #9: Sun Mar 6 18:47:36 pst 2011 Huh? Please help me understand why you'd grep for "2011" in the context of this topic (timezone differences). Here's an impirical test: 1. Put your BIOS into GMT 2. Make /etc/localtime a symbolic link to /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles 3. Reboot In our experience, the "Regents of the University of California" message is logged to /var/log/messages in GMT and subsequent messages (produced after /usr is mounted) are logged in the desired timezone. NOTE: This assumes that "/" and "/usr" are separate partitions. -- Devin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 22:12:42 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11315106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:12:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from argol.doit.wisc.edu (argol.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6C5C8FC1E for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:12:41 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0LIS00200DL4JK00@smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:12:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from anacreon.physics.wisc.edu (anacreon.physics.wisc.edu [128.104.160.176]) by smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0LIS00FC1DL37V50@smtpauth3.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:12:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:12:39 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <8CDBBA235B59E56-11D4-42F9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <4D90F9C7.3060408@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=128.104.160.176 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-11, Version=5.6.0.2009776, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.3.28.210018, SenderIP=128.104.160.176 References: <8CDBBA235B59E56-11D4-42F9@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD powerpc; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110305 Thunderbird/3.1.9 Subject: Re: multi-boot bootstrap? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:12:42 -0000 On 03/28/11 15:59, dieterbsd@engineer.com wrote: > > >> From what I know, one or the other can only be as >> the first entry and it then has to be set from the forth prompt. >> So, you will need two disks to boot , saya: OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD, > Linux, >> and MacOSX or a combination of these. >> >> On PPC boxes with OpenFirmware 3.x, you actually need to set the > active >> partition if you want to boot Linux and/or freebsd from the forth > prompt if >> both are on the same disk. > > Can these PPC boxes boot from GPT disks? "active partition" sounds > MBRish. > Perhaps they can use the "protective MBR" trick? No, they can only boot from APM (Apple Partition Map) disks, which don't have a concept of active partition. The current boot1 on PPC is hard-coded to boot from the first UFS partition on the disk, which could be changed, certainly, but is almost totally unrelated to this discussion. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 22:37:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 022D7106567A; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:37:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f182.google.com (mail-gx0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E8118FC1C; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gxk28 with SMTP id 28so1564670gxk.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:37:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Su/UuD8qxns7WvWxix6g1cm5V/ZcVKAOIFhJSPspnsU=; b=WssF0AKnsubf+IZkoUuvL/gEHF+Vo9AZb3Le6OZiTe4UVq2F+qsAqkrUTWOyDzdHwH 4StVXakvl/q7grjyKMsIw0ffehsJLpMvlArA9z3npd6GmRDXbpXrOooqyUSs4gKmodcA DqjuQtoIR7PIKjJuo3a1t+vusU3gJPFnpo84c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=KsglzqXtz4Q+7ANi6Dp3OOeyAhAI9g/Cm88anP85fAeYGjUEdu78xn6Miw3stGKPmD 0H8vyz4hG1rE80kFsrD3Ya8OXS8vIVgICRMefLZlT57X1AfUjjd4uqHg7oSalrakRIgc 1WdnT9koScGEqcPAgrQxQGqFScXwKXlczNzZ4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.136.14 with SMTP id j14mr4340968agd.154.1301350208045; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.100.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:10:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110328220343.GA44745@freebsd.org> References: <20110328220343.GA44745@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:10:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: Freddie Cash To: Alexander Best Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: src.conf(5) status/semantics X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:37:11 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Alexander Best wrote: > how hard would it be to change the *.mk code so the following semantics apply: > > - make.conf(5) == applies system-wide > - src.conf(5) == applies only to /usr/src What would be really nice would be taking it to its logical conclusion: /etc/make.conf for system-wide make options (applies when make run anywhere) /etc/src.conf only applies when make run under /usr/src /etc/ports.conf only applies when make run under /usr/ports -- Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 22:46:53 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id 20C601065672; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:46:52 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:46:52 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: Freddie Cash Message-ID: <20110328224652.GA51789@freebsd.org> References: <20110328220343.GA44745@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: src.conf(5) status/semantics X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:46:53 -0000 On Mon Mar 28 11, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Alexander Best wrote: > > how hard would it be to change the *.mk code so the following semantics apply: > > > > - make.conf(5) == applies system-wide > > - src.conf(5) == applies only to /usr/src > > What would be really nice would be taking it to its logical conclusion: defenately. however i think the src.conf case should be first fixed before adding the ports.conf case. > > /etc/make.conf for system-wide make options (applies when make run anywhere) > /etc/src.conf only applies when make run under /usr/src > /etc/ports.conf only applies when make run under /usr/ports > > -- > Freddie Cash > fjwcash@gmail.com -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 22:51:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DB3106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:51:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1EE8FC08 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:51:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so5107596iwn.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:51:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.111.228 with SMTP id t36mr4728066ibp.59.1301352702871; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.60.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:51:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1301349824.26028.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <8CDBBA132D81656-11D4-4261@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> <1301349824.26028.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:51:42 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: Devin Teske Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@engineer.com Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:51:44 -0000 2011/3/29 Devin Teske : > On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 16:52 -0400, dieterbsd@engineer.com wrote: >> >>> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime >> >>> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a >> symlink, >> >>> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it >> >>> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up >> >>> scripts. >> >> >> >> I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being >> >> a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. >> > >> > The one (and only) problem that I've seen from using a symlink for >> > /etc/localtime is that -- since the /usr partition is not mounted >> > early-on -- boot messages get logged in GMT offset until /usr is >> mounted. >> > >> > However, some simply ignore this. >> >> What boot messages are these? > > The messages generated during boot -- see /var/log/messages. > > >> grep 2011 /var/run/dmesg.boot > > Those aren't the boot messages I'm referring to (and by convention, I > would call those the "kernel boot messages" as only the kernel messages > are found there). > >> Copyright (c) 1992-2011 The FreeBSD Project. >> FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE #9: Sun Mar =A06 18:47:36 pst 2011 > > Huh? Please help me understand why you'd grep for "2011" in the context > of this topic (timezone differences). > > Here's an impirical test: > 1. Put your BIOS into GMT > 2. Make /etc/localtime a symbolic link > to /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles > 3. Reboot > > In our experience, the "Regents of the University of California" message > is logged to /var/log/messages in GMT and subsequent messages (produced > after /usr is mounted) are logged in the desired timezone. > > NOTE: This assumes that "/" and "/usr" are separate partitions. Not for me (BIOS clock set to UTC) : % uname -a FreeBSD q.gid0.org 9.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 9.0-CURRENT #0 r220114: Mon Mar 28 23:42:11 CEST 2011 root@q.gid0.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/QUAD amd64 % date mar 29 mar 2011 00:41:41 CEST % uptime 0:41 up 30 mins, 3 users, load averages: 0,06 0,06 0,07 % ls -l /etc/localtime lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 32 29 jui 2008 /etc/localtime@ -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Paris % mount tank/freebsd on / (zfs, local, noatime, nfsv4acls) [...] tank/freebsd/usr on /usr (zfs, local, noatime, nfsv4acls) [...] % grep -i regents /var/log/messages Mar 29 00:12:08 q kernel: The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. % tail -n 1 /var/log/messages Mar 29 00:12:08 q kernel: kbd0 at ukbd0 I don't think this content is added to /var/log/messages during boot, because the kernel doesn't have access to the log file (and if /usr is not mounted, neither is /var). I thought the kernel messages were saved in memory (system message buffer), and only after boot (and filesystems mounted, and syslogd started) were they dumped to a file. --=20 Olivier Smedts=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 _ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - against HTML email & vCards=A0 X www: http://www.gid0.org=A0 =A0 - against proprietary attachments / \ =A0 "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : =A0 ceux qui comprennent le binaire, =A0 et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 23:00:52 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DD0C106567A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:00:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivier@gid0.org) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E63FF8FC19 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyj12 with SMTP id 12so5178692iyj.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:00:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.74.195 with SMTP id x3mr7721087icj.79.1301351914209; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.60.10 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:38:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4D910084.1010304@FreeBSD.org> References: <4D910084.1010304@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:38:34 +0200 Message-ID: From: Olivier Smedts To: Doug Barton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Using mergemaster to keep /etc/localtime updated X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:00:52 -0000 2011/3/28 Doug Barton : > I'm starting a new thread since while the previous one contained a lot of > good information it was starting to get a big fragmented, and as someone > pointed out mergemaster is not a general solution so I want to focus on t= he > area that I'm actually responsible for. :) > > Having read everything in the thread (and thanks to all who contributed, > btw) my current plan is to add some code to the end (in the section that > deals with things like running cap_mkdb if you update login.conf) to do t= he > following. Please let me know if this sounds reasonable, or if I'm missin= g > something: > > 1. If /var/db/zoneinfo exists, check to see if /etc/localtime is the same= as > /usr/share/`cat /var/db/zoneinfo` and if not, prompt the user to run > tzsetup. > 2. If /var/db/zoneinfo does not exist, and /etc/localtime is not a symlink to a tz file ? > check to see if kern.osreldate is > after the date that the code was added, and if so, prompt the user to run > tzsetup. So how would mergemaster behave after a fresh "make installworld distribution" in an empty DESTDIR ? Isn't it supposed to do nothing in this case, because all should already be up-to-date ? > 3. If /var/db/zoneinfo does not exist, and the new code has not been adde= d > yet, attempt to determine the right answer, and create a /var/db/zoneinfo > file. (Note, I do not look forward to writing that bit.) :) > > > Sound reasonable? > > Doug > > -- > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-- OK Go > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DN= S. > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Yours for the right price. =A0:) =A0http://SupersetSolutio= ns.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > --=20 Olivier Smedts=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 _ =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) e-mail: olivier@gid0.org=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - against HTML email & vCards=A0 X www: http://www.gid0.org=A0 =A0 - against proprietary attachments / \ =A0 "Il y a seulement 10 sortes de gens dans le monde : =A0 ceux qui comprennent le binaire, =A0 et ceux qui ne le comprennent pas." From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 23:04:37 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAACD106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:04:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 65-241-43-5.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A48314DCDB; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4D911405.3050906@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:04:37 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110319 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Olivier Smedts References: <4D910084.1010304@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Using mergemaster to keep /etc/localtime updated X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:04:37 -0000 On 03/28/2011 15:38, Olivier Smedts wrote: > 2011/3/28 Doug Barton: >> I'm starting a new thread since while the previous one contained a lot of >> good information it was starting to get a big fragmented, and as someone >> pointed out mergemaster is not a general solution so I want to focus on the >> area that I'm actually responsible for. :) >> >> Having read everything in the thread (and thanks to all who contributed, >> btw) my current plan is to add some code to the end (in the section that >> deals with things like running cap_mkdb if you update login.conf) to do the >> following. Please let me know if this sounds reasonable, or if I'm missing >> something: >> >> 1. If /var/db/zoneinfo exists, check to see if /etc/localtime is the same as >> /usr/share/`cat /var/db/zoneinfo` and if not, prompt the user to run >> tzsetup. >> 2. If /var/db/zoneinfo does not exist, > > and /etc/localtime is not a symlink to a tz file ? Good point, I forgot to include that. :) I should point out that I also forgot to specifically enumerate the case where there is no /etc/localtime file (i.e., the time zone is UTC). In that case mergemaster should do nothing. >> check to see if kern.osreldate is >> after the date that the code was added, and if so, prompt the user to run >> tzsetup. > > So how would mergemaster behave after a fresh "make installworld > distribution" in an empty DESTDIR ? If you've already installed stuff, I don't see how DESTDIR could be empty. Or am I missing something? > Isn't it supposed to do nothing in this case, because all should already be up-to-date ? If there is no DESTDIR/etc/localtime, then yes, "do nothing" is the right answer, see above. Thanks for the review, Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 23:21:56 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CAD9106566B for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:21:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dteske@vicor.com) Received: from postoffice.vicor.com (postoffice.vicor.com [69.26.56.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520F78FC16 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:21:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.82.228.150] (port=55730) by postoffice.vicor.com with esmtpsa (SSLv3:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.74) (envelope-from ) id 1Q4Lkk-0007dE-1X; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:21:44 -0700 From: Devin Teske To: Olivier Smedts In-Reply-To: References: <8CDBBA132D81656-11D4-4261@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> <1301349824.26028.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Organization: VICOR, Inc. Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:22:03 -0700 Message-ID: <1301354523.8488.2.camel@dt.vicor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 X-Scan-Signature: 5c2aa4e91ef518ec39ea1aa0bff6c839 X-Scan-Host: postoffice.vicor.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="cp1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@engineer.com Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:21:56 -0000 On Tue, 2011-03-29 at 00:51 +0200, Olivier Smedts wrote: > 2011/3/29 Devin Teske : > > On Mon, 2011-03-28 at 16:52 -0400, dieterbsd@engineer.com wrote: > >> >>> And while I (think I) recall that the equivalent of /etc/localtime > >> >>> was implemented in some version of SunOS many years ago as a > >> symlink, > >> >>> I believe that approach could be problematic for FreeBSD, as it > >> >>> could impose some unintended requirements on some of the start-up > >> >>> scripts. > >> >> > >> >> I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > >> >> a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. > >> > > >> > The one (and only) problem that I've seen from using a symlink for > >> > /etc/localtime is that -- since the /usr partition is not mounted > >> > early-on -- boot messages get logged in GMT offset until /usr is > >> mounted. > >> > > >> > However, some simply ignore this. > >> > >> What boot messages are these? > > > > The messages generated during boot -- see /var/log/messages. > > > > > >> grep 2011 /var/run/dmesg.boot > > > > Those aren't the boot messages I'm referring to (and by convention, I > > would call those the "kernel boot messages" as only the kernel messages > > are found there). > > > >> Copyright (c) 1992-2011 The FreeBSD Project. > >> FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE #9: Sun Mar 6 18:47:36 pst 2011 > > > > Huh? Please help me understand why you'd grep for "2011" in the context > > of this topic (timezone differences). > > > > Here's an impirical test: > > 1. Put your BIOS into GMT > > 2. Make /etc/localtime a symbolic link > > to /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles > > 3. Reboot > > > > In our experience, the "Regents of the University of California" message > > is logged to /var/log/messages in GMT and subsequent messages (produced > > after /usr is mounted) are logged in the desired timezone. > > > > NOTE: This assumes that "/" and "/usr" are separate partitions. > > Not for me (BIOS clock set to UTC) : > % uname -a > FreeBSD q.gid0.org 9.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 9.0-CURRENT #0 r220114: Mon Mar > 28 23:42:11 CEST 2011 root@q.gid0.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/QUAD > amd64 > % date > mar 29 mar 2011 00:41:41 CEST > % uptime > 0:41 up 30 mins, 3 users, load averages: 0,06 0,06 0,07 > % ls -l /etc/localtime > lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 32 29 jui 2008 /etc/localtime@ -> > /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Paris > % mount > tank/freebsd on / (zfs, local, noatime, nfsv4acls) > [...] > tank/freebsd/usr on /usr (zfs, local, noatime, nfsv4acls) > [...] > % grep -i regents /var/log/messages > Mar 29 00:12:08 q kernel: The Regents of the University of California. > All rights reserved. > % tail -n 1 /var/log/messages > Mar 29 00:12:08 q kernel: kbd0 at ukbd0 > > I don't think this content is added to /var/log/messages during boot, > because the kernel doesn't have access to the log file (and if /usr is > not mounted, neither is /var). I thought the kernel messages were > saved in memory (system message buffer), and only after boot (and > filesystems mounted, and syslogd started) were they dumped to a file. I'm thinking that this must have changed from FreeBSD-4.8 onward. I wasn't personally involved on this one, but did hear from my boss that several sites reported this (but those sites were running FreeBSD 4.8 and 4.11). It's quite possible that the problem was fixed in later releases. In which case, I can jump up and down for joy and tell my boss that it's once-again kosher to set /etc/localtime as a symbolic link. -- Devin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 28 23:27:05 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B662106564A for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:27:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from 65-241-43-5.globalsuite.net (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A960214E3C7; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:27:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4D911948.1070303@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:27:04 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://SupersetSolutions.com/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110319 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Devin Teske References: <8CDBBA132D81656-11D4-4261@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> <1301349824.26028.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1301354523.8488.2.camel@dt.vicor.com> In-Reply-To: <1301354523.8488.2.camel@dt.vicor.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 OpenPGP: id=1A1ABC84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Olivier Smedts , hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@engineer.com Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:27:05 -0000 On 03/28/2011 16:22, Devin Teske wrote: > In which case, I can jump up and down for joy and tell my boss that it's > once-again kosher to set /etc/localtime as a symbolic link. It has always been true that the only "safe" way to make /etc/localtime a symlink is to have / and /usr on the same filesystem. This point has been repeated several times in this thread so far, hopefully this can be the last? :) Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 03:46:09 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D043E106566B; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:46:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaduk@mit.edu) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (DMZ-MAILSEC-SCANNER-5.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5488FC08; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:46:09 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: 12074422-b7ccdae000003dab-d7-4d91527ef97d Received: from mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.39]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 36.70.15787.E72519D4; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id p2T3V6pO000549; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:31:06 -0400 Received: from multics.mit.edu (MULTICS.MIT.EDU [18.187.1.73]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id p2T3V4rb020479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:31:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from kaduk@localhost) by multics.mit.edu (8.12.9.20060308) id p2T3V32o008353; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:31:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 23:31:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Julien Laffaye In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Alpine 1.10 (GSO 962 2008-03-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrMIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nrlsXNNHX4PxdEYvfvy6yWmxYUGjx +MM+Rottk1sZHVg8ZnyazxLAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVsXT9NPaCRewV99vXsDcw3mPtYuTk kBAwkZh5ew8ThC0mceHeerYuRi4OIYF9jBIT111ihHA2MEo0zvnMBOEcYJJY+nYeC4TTwCjx cu1eRpB+FgFtiXMfdrKB2GwCKhIz32wEs0UENCVm31zGDGIzC0RJHOvdDbZPWMBZ4sOzb2A1 nALeEjPOvgKr4RVwlPh4YyfUHV8ZJSbdP8wOkhAV0JFYvX8KC0SRoMTJmU9YIIZaSpz7c51t AqPgLCSpWUhSCxiZVjHKpuRW6eYmZuYUpybrFicn5uWlFuma6uVmluilppRuYgSHrYvSDsaf B5UOMQpwMCrx8G65NcFXiDWxrLgy9xCjJAeTkiivQOBEXyG+pPyUyozE4oz4otKc1OJDjBIc zEoivBdYgXK8KYmVValF+TApaQ4WJXHeOZLqvkIC6YklqdmpqQWpRTBZGQ4OJQleZmB8CgkW paanVqRl5pQgpJk4OEGG8wAN/w+ymLe4IDG3ODMdIn+KUVFKnFcQpFkAJJFRmgfXC0srrxjF gV4R5j0P0s4DTElw3a+ABjMBDQ5UmgAyuCQRISXVwMhcGTixnz2QJYmD7dqiJxblE/5XccsG Hf7WEnjCK/Rlfs/L7VGF0/o2Vk2f8GLPNSdedxFbzt2qW2+7SKSu2jvzKXe1zcrfRUvj3h37 qd9gZnpp9b6O6esetcTfLNTp3b48eOuFVx4FngnWBjdygt507HP/5nXitHq/fOOGxfulTnyp jbrEO1WJpTgj0VCLuag4EQDr+0jpBgMAAA== Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:46:09 -0000 On Mon, 28 Mar 2011, Julien Laffaye wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >>> >>> II. Package signing. >> >> That would be really nice. > > Right know we only planned to sign the repo database, so we can trust > the sah256 of the packages stored in the database. Then if the package > has the same sha256 as the one in the repo database it is considered > trusted. > If we want a per-package signing, we would have a tarball in a tarball. I really expected this to have been mentioned already, but this approach (tarball in a tarball) is taken by Debian packages, and I don't remember hearing of any issues related to it. I don't think it's worth discounting from the start without giving some considerationg, but I will defer to the people actually doing the work. -Ben Kaduk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 04:15:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3DCC106566B; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 04:15:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB988FC16; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 04:15:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yxl31 with SMTP id 31so1677340yxl.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.183.229 with SMTP id q65mr2552687yhm.122.1301372149662; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.119] (99-74-169-43.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [99.74.169.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u79sm2318775yhn.5.2011.03.28.21.15.44 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tim Kientzle Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Tim Kientzle In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:15:41 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> To: Benjamin Kaduk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , hackers@freebsd.org, Julien Laffaye Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 04:15:50 -0000 >>>> II. Package signing. >>>=20 >>> That would be really nice. >>=20 >> Right know we only planned to sign the repo database, so we can trust >> the sah256 of the packages stored in the database. Then if the = package >> has the same sha256 as the one in the repo database it is considered >> trusted. >> If we want a per-package signing, we would have a tarball in a = tarball. >=20 > I really expected this to have been mentioned already, but this = approach (tarball in a tarball) is taken by Debian packages, and I don't = remember hearing of any issues related to it. I don't think it's worth = discounting from the start without giving some considerationg, but I = will defer to the people actually doing the work. If you use libarchive-style streaming, it's even pretty straightforward to read and extract such things without having to create a bunch of temporary files. You just need to be careful about compression. Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 03:19:35 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20516106566B; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:19:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from edwin@mavetju.org) Received: from mail4out.barnet.com.au (mail4out.barnet.com.au [202.83.178.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7A28FC13; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:19:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail4out.barnet.com.au (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B731437BDB8; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:00:48 +1100 (EST) X-Viruscan-Id: <4D914B600000CA0E2C9B83@BarNet> Received: from localhost (atmail.barnet.com.au [202.83.176.226]) by mail4.barnet.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D81342478F; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:00:48 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <79ac09232a72825cfeb3687bbc31446d16c809b1@webmail.barnet.com.au> From: Edwin Groothuis To: Doug Barton , Ed Maste X-Mailer: Atmail 6.1.6 in-reply-to: <4D90F98E.6010101@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:00:48 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 04:15:57 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: edwin@freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, David Wolfskill Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 03:19:35 -0000 Hello Doug,=0A=0AI think it got lost in the busy/dark part of my life la= st year.=0AFeel free to do it, the code is not spectacular or dramatic.= =0AIf not done when I go home I will do it tonight on my way back from= =0Awork.=0A=0AEdwin=0A=C2=A0=0A -- Edwin Groothuis edwin@mavetju.org =0A= =0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "Doug Barton" =0ATo:"Ed Maste"= =0ACc:"David Wolfskill" , , =0ASent:Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:11:42 -0700=0AS= ubject:Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date=0A=0A On 03/27/2011 18:38,= Ed Maste wrote:=0A > That's what tzsetup does in HEAD - the name of the= selected=0Atimezone file=0A > is stored in /var/db/zoneinfo, and tzsetu= p -r can be used to copy=0Ain an=0A > updated file:=0A >=0A > -r Reinsta= ll the zoneinfo file installed last time. The=0A > name is obtained from= /var/db/zoneinfo.=0A >=0A > It looks like this hasn't been MFC'd, altho= ugh I'm not sure why.=0AThe=0A > change came in from svn rev 198267 by e= dwin (CC'd).=0A=0A Edwin,=0A=0A Any reason not to MFC this?=0A=0A Doug= =0A=0A -- =0A=0A Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.= =0A -- OK Go=0A=0A Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in t= he DNS.=0A Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ [= 1]=0A=0A=0A=0ALinks:=0A------=0A[1] http://SupersetSolutions.com/=0A From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 05:51:02 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C5471065670; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:51:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127458FC12; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:51:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyj12 with SMTP id 12so5517952iyj.13 for ; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:51:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+/JgRXdxI9vqxjijUyE5qMtUVOKWLbD1vxUtZf3O2D4=; b=nBl7+0T0dinvX0KxvqWywtRtMGMLW8Gz5qs3zZq6IYQnDFojC4Qb4pWRIEaI2bbG95 FVvG7W//EFxKO3beoqh1R46lo1LZt34w3U73XJ18upgoM4CLNZY8hCGJ8kWYIfefx8IE ZfucE8Gy9bKDowM9CTasaR8rWX3JIWF+Mcg9E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=f0bGNYdLWlEiVnoKRVBEnCD1j5wkyFQJu5gmIsFUOuZHaRFSKKPdacyriFEoZizqgr TPK96Ph7Ktg75kSAmSERBHuWWHy5mHp+G9m7A8elKjSuZ1ZGKdOiI7932Pm90w5QjceR hZOQJvrCvtV9Yrm3nhS/latvrEF7fVTGIq/jM= Received: by 10.231.3.142 with SMTP id 14mr5205568ibn.84.1301377861120; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:51:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.21.153 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:50:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> From: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:50:41 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cbPY3KLYaBdmlmYPYdMPAaUNWzU Message-ID: To: Tim Kientzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:51:02 -0000 2011/3/29 Tim Kientzle : >>>>> II. Package signing. >>>> >>>> That would be really nice. >>> >>> Right know we only planned to sign the repo database, so we can trust >>> the sah256 of the packages stored in the database. Then if the package >>> has the same sha256 as the one in the repo database it is considered >>> trusted. >>> If we want a per-package signing, we would have a tarball in a tarball. >> >> I really expected this to have been mentioned already, but this approach= (tarball in a tarball) is taken by Debian packages, and I don't remember h= earing of any issues related to it. =A0I don't think it's worth discounting= from the start without giving some considerationg, but I will defer to the= people actually doing the work. > > If you use libarchive-style streaming, it's even > pretty straightforward to read and extract such > things without having to create a bunch of > temporary files. > > You just need to be careful about compression. > > Tim > > ok but what is the problem with signing only the repository then rely on di= gest? I am not sure we need more that this. second question howto sign? pgp? ssl? First would be the easiest way to go but we don't have in base anything to check signatures (maybe we should in that case investigating to import netpgp), ssl why not? but which algorithm? what security officer would prefer? We are ok to investigate that part, but we need more information about what is expected. regards, Bapt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 07:29:45 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6631B106564A for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:29:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stefan@fafoe.narf.at) Received: from fep20.mx.upcmail.net (fep20.mx.upcmail.net [62.179.121.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F1618FC0C for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:29:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from edge01.upcmail.net ([192.168.13.236]) by viefep20-int.chello.at (InterMail vM.8.01.02.02 201-2260-120-106-20100312) with ESMTP id <20110329072942.VVDS23900.viefep20-int.chello.at@edge01.upcmail.net>; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:29:42 +0200 Received: from mole.fafoe.narf.at ([213.47.85.26]) by edge01.upcmail.net with edge id QvVg1g00p0a5KZh01vVhLa; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:29:42 +0200 X-SourceIP: 213.47.85.26 Received: by mole.fafoe.narf.at (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 112816D449; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:29:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:29:39 +0200 From: Stefan Farfeleder To: Andrew Turner Message-ID: <20110329072939.GA2648@mole.fafoe.narf.at> References: <20110328083657.35507caf@fubar.geek.nz> <20110327200729.GD2651@mole.fafoe.narf.at> <20110328223319.4df096b2@fubar.geek.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110328223319.4df096b2@fubar.geek.nz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=zlRBWuFCZaNL9+WHNm1pWLowY5Lx061w2zJBJiDkNAU= c=1 sm=0 a=wom5GMh1gUkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=3REyxE8BOHkCUes8cIsA:9 a=Tm5zhvJzlTcSBA8ZyH15ZXcqaMEA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unsigned wchar_t X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:29:45 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:33:19PM +1300, Andrew Turner wrote: > On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:07:30 +0200 > Stefan Farfeleder wrote: > > > The C standard specifies that both and shall > > define WCHAR_MIN and WCHAR_MAX. You cannot simply include > > from because the former contains a lot > > of other macros. > I thought that might be the case. I could create for > the defines unless there is a better place for them. Yes, a new header would be a possibility. Stefan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 08:01:52 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9776106564A for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:01:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (agora.rdrop.com [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C898FC16 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:01:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id p2T81qKU043907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:01:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.9/Submit) with UUCP id p2T81prR043906; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fbsd61 by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA28915; Mon, 28 Mar 11 23:54:03 PST Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 00:53:50 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: matthias.andree@gmx.de Message-Id: <4d91900e.aNSfFKEtFazonwkG%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> <4D90EDFD.8070402@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4D90EDFD.8070402@gmx.de> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:01:53 -0000 Matthias Andree wrote: > Am 28.03.2011 19:57, schrieb dieterbsd@engineer.com: > > I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being > > a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. > > In that case, /etc and /usr/share/timezone (or whatever) need to > be in the same physical file system ... If they're in the same physical FS there's no need for a symlink. You might as well use a hardlink. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 09:08:37 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B9E106564A for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:08:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from husaini.insaniah@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f182.google.com (mail-qy0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A598F8FC0C for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:08:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so3039918qyk.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 02:08:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=h+BR1B1eeRe+z3t6Pso6bsQDGMulSvJ2z0+NwRNWUDg=; b=s+d1cxZAm7kEATBMizTVOhbRVwyQtNw+97AShbmSvNGRq2uTaqSpU1kBffAXB3BShG WBqlRdChh8gzmzVcDuoeTr5NoueiwRxL+d6r8AtPekJSp0E4mG63DmMEcoOFz3usg2a1 acvVzBODm6Yfi9iFK+y0/bQEjp5Dmwd3R8n/o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=DzULePFCyT7aY6zEiE+/qR6vXnodP4/20W9Aa/F8xuFwk+qIwD9DAqDjWe6o5gIrSb 42TU1d7AuV+b+WLDiOkK1C+o2mghf2YiS1hKzs3OulHeZYu4/4Lffi3QuF+JtY6YAXI8 HbE4s345LWe1uOymOj/BbwBQMbNytoTE2CqJE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.63.229 with SMTP id c37mr4295251qci.212.1301388359205; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.29.139 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 01:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:45:59 +0000 Message-ID: From: husaini harun To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:26:39 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: ask for soc project & idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:08:38 -0000 example I would like to join existing projects, will have to submit proposal too ? from, husaini student application freebsd-soc From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 09:20:52 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47CE1065675 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:20:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from husaini.insaniah@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f68.google.com (mail-qw0-f68.google.com [209.85.216.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E8D8FC1E for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:20:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qwg5 with SMTP id 5so517095qwg.7 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 02:20:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=9fzNCnmgDH3nFLl0+2zF0qMF82aPyFJ/7SX7Xyvh2p8=; b=YqV2GY4Aq9outco+Hymi13ARreY4/7uNiFlTlzmBV8tJz8Gt4yBxmuZN7jmkdGd1mb ciYRytUk3Pnsb+bIzwWYD2xydd22J/1rPcO9jslAroHzbd90QelNn4PZRaioJC1uEzQ4 JkZQdMSbJEhKUPqD2NMXBLlw+aqBwWnpoRFtQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=OU6zPdKH+eVpjEvJqV7gRgx3ceHEveu6ZfIKW5JxGP0kCsuW/qywnlOvlkMWh5JJ57 M+JG/MiNYOItYCzZ/+kUt2fFTU+PNWEIn4qydH3eUU1nykFkln89xpu/On1kfjAixcCh 1YTXWWFqBHndfQR0/S+w87Yuwa8TNNp9r1v7k= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.136.17 with SMTP id p17mr4370932qat.38.1301390451422; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 02:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.29.139 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 02:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:20:51 +0000 Message-ID: From: husaini harun To: mprevot@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:26:57 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: ask about Document all sysctls - gsoc 2011 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:20:52 -0000 I am interested to participate "Document all sysctls" - gsoc 2011 could provide specific to this project, such as how to start a project, in addition, I was FreeBSD 8.2, ZFS users, I have yet to send proposal on freebsd-hackers at freebsd.org regards, husaini From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 12:11:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9045B1065674; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:11:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julien.laffaye@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2288FC0A; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:11:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yxl31 with SMTP id 31so36009yxl.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:11:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ci8ODG+VI3291wJnvVCkslY7qvQQVJFj4vO4xHOZLRc=; b=hq+WRSveAK7rLcfkk4OQ07nZWd4+EqDw88tws0dnAUGHKu9vuJOZ+fqsS4xKha3PLe sfdeyXyY0lR/Sbwn3MQyL3XBhB4dOyCDhk9qGGWF2Gm1oeObwNRT99zyIai0hKl5kZtH ssvDTI2eBBILUJCzeic82+fUSlQrb+PQ9O9/8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=eStgeJpCfwoyJQvF/E4570dC0GlXzSAlQOAJJmjlH0Vgicu7nUzRw+Y5vvFvEmgk6c AsaiAEYpXJR9E24RWEIlimKuYqJTxrVyMp9wzviFzBbNlpfQtu4LeGEWqzRVoRYSd3+n NcQJknqNnND+u9J9PNMi0S5fZWJSFTtu9eW+s= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.185.200 with SMTP id u48mr1105575yhm.135.1301400698232; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: julien.laffaye@gmail.com Received: by 10.236.109.33 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 05:11:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:11:38 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9vA5VRb-Wglgx-SuCz1A5xFXA9I Message-ID: From: Julien Laffaye To: Tim Kientzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , hackers@freebsd.org, Benjamin Kaduk Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:11:39 -0000 On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Tim Kientzle wrote: >>>>> II. Package signing. >>>> >>>> That would be really nice. >>> >>> Right know we only planned to sign the repo database, so we can trust >>> the sah256 of the packages stored in the database. Then if the package >>> has the same sha256 as the one in the repo database it is considered >>> trusted. >>> If we want a per-package signing, we would have a tarball in a tarball. >> >> I really expected this to have been mentioned already, but this approach= (tarball in a tarball) is taken by Debian packages, and I don't remember h= earing of any issues related to it. =A0I don't think it's worth discounting= from the start without giving some considerationg, but I will defer to the= people actually doing the work. > > If you use libarchive-style streaming, it's even > pretty straightforward to read and extract such > things without having to create a bunch of > temporary files. > > You just need to be careful about compression. Agreed, if we dont want to verify the signature, we can extract the tarball in the tarball efficiently. But to verify the signature, we have to read the tarball in the tarball twice: the first time to compute the digest and verify the signature, the second time to do the real extraction. So I guess that the tarball containing the real package archive and the signature should be uncompressed. The real package archive would be compressed, though. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 14:48:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FAE6106566C for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:48:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthias.andree@gmx.de) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.23]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C8A608FC15 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 29 Mar 2011 14:48:19 -0000 Received: from g227115215.adsl.alicedsl.de (EHLO apollo.emma.line.org) [92.227.115.215] by mail.gmx.net (mp017) with SMTP; 29 Mar 2011 16:48:19 +0200 X-Authenticated: #428038 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX188WjBx7iQ88k9HM6QGuZQRTvu8+VfVseNCLwkpR7 xAsTPzk9/MY+nr Received: from [IPv6:::1] (unknown [IPv6:::1]) by apollo.emma.line.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3FC25AD89 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:48:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4D91F12E.3050803@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:48:14 +0200 From: Matthias Andree User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110223 Mnenhy/0.8.3 Thunderbird/3.1.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> <4D90EDFD.8070402@gmx.de> <4d91900e.aNSfFKEtFazonwkG%perryh@pluto.rain.com> In-Reply-To: <4d91900e.aNSfFKEtFazonwkG%perryh@pluto.rain.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:48:21 -0000 Am 29.03.2011 09:53, schrieb perryh@pluto.rain.com: > Matthias Andree wrote: >> Am 28.03.2011 19:57, schrieb dieterbsd@engineer.com: >>> I have been running FreeBSD and NetBSD with /etc/localtime being >>> a symlink for years and have not seen any problems as a result. >> >> In that case, /etc and /usr/share/timezone (or whatever) need to >> be in the same physical file system ... > > If they're in the same physical FS there's no need for a symlink. > You might as well use a hardlink. And then discuss how all the time zone configuration tools deal with /etc/localtime - truncate/overwrite, direct overwrite, rename-a-replacement-file and all that. No. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 14:50:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7091065688; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:50:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC8448FC41; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:50:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vws18 with SMTP id 18so219387vws.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=dkQVum91Tq7bpLumPV7ahGtZKDc310X5df2H9XeztnA=; b=iHm66xRnVZw8zH+TMhZwkOcuoDEuuU5tFkcgWXYwpGH0YN5kq4/3rNkkv4aBnoIVB4 F2UNAu3nEsCKZFFDSnhjjcjfqeXmnIirXypMhGzAwzNYo/gwvc/Mv7dlKr4zYjxDxfbt 8OMl4FmEuTM6X+NG4YE7A+eBzukFlc/HubXx4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=unmhLsr+StWGBTgN8fC+CVZACEjUCtf2b/T5oH6Y8BLcHgXi3csEAN8wPLtKGmRPi9 HzQYu+obnxzllY01++/kMbdtH+8SWeXamUlJwlbrWqrYuWXBnNfB7FIHIPT9lj04l3Io 5Di7gfJfaSrhxuUOe/DMeJ0eM/OVMqQrLnbB0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.198.200 with SMTP id ep8mr1500657vcb.132.1301410231590; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.186.138 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:50:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 10:50:31 -0400 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: Julien Laffaye Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , Tim Kientzle , Benjamin Kaduk , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:50:33 -0000 I'm just going to clarify a statement I made earlier on this thread in order to remove some possible misconceptions. One can only boot 32bit PPC on a 32bit PPC machines and have it work properly. The same applies for 64bit ppc machines. On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Julien Laffaye wrote: > On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Tim Kientzle > wrote: > >>>>> II. Package signing. > >>>> > >>>> That would be really nice. > >>> > >>> Right know we only planned to sign the repo database, so we can trust > >>> the sah256 of the packages stored in the database. Then if the package > >>> has the same sha256 as the one in the repo database it is considered > >>> trusted. > >>> If we want a per-package signing, we would have a tarball in a tarball. > >> > >> I really expected this to have been mentioned already, but this approach > (tarball in a tarball) is taken by Debian packages, and I don't remember > hearing of any issues related to it. I don't think it's worth discounting > from the start without giving some considerationg, but I will defer to the > people actually doing the work. > > > > If you use libarchive-style streaming, it's even > > pretty straightforward to read and extract such > > things without having to create a bunch of > > temporary files. > > > > You just need to be careful about compression. > > Agreed, if we dont want to verify the signature, we can extract the > tarball in the tarball efficiently. > > But to verify the signature, we have to read the tarball in the > tarball twice: the first time to compute the digest and verify the > signature, the second time to do the real extraction. > So I guess that the tarball containing the real package archive and > the signature should be uncompressed. The real package archive would > be compressed, though. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 17:37:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD261065670; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:37:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0A18FC0C; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:37:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id UAA26431; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:37:35 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4D9218DF.8060305@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:37:35 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110309 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julien Laffaye References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ports@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:37:39 -0000 on 28/03/2011 21:22 Julien Laffaye said the following: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> III. Package naming that includes architecture, major OS version (for API/ABI), >>> maybe more. >> >> This could be provided in the manifest. Doing it in the filename sort >> of turns into a mess, as I've discovered working at Cisco :). >> > > Actually, it *is* in the +MANIFEST of pkgng packages archives :-) Well, by the package name I meant not only a package file name. Let's imagine that we do support installing i386 packages on amd64 in parallel to amd64 packages. And for some reason I want to have both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of, say, firefox; e.g. for benchmarking. If the packages would have the same name, then that would be impossible. I think that having some thing in package name in addition to package metadata could have certain benefits. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 18:27:59 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ADC11065672; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:27:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2BC8FC17; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:27:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so507992iwn.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:27:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZCeaMRXpgVGmn1Xo13Fj13gaTvb4BTaAKdTxlx9Xkz0=; b=MJIlU3fhZpME7mhkJf+l7C62+hPnyGTBFrDWPPpU8ictlz8ntb1Q9BKxpICDYGN3DT W3TdXITNfKGlEYkxKv6VFQMiPj+tj6Yok7gdrVyzNWrwU5xhsgdoVThuiQsXaSCWsRZT 0YETpp0EnPDoewneMmuHnvcMpNbrW0wiFReBA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=n44x9n8jnsr8mYcUeAUEZgbL3VDthuZ0sOLSqDiqARtteU8S3fDQ70YTgkpREel38X Q2CYYtSObUuiSFAYxudGhFe6cejXkhF9gXAJbSv+ltzTPfCxXa1pvM/s79kWPRpoQUAW D2H2cdWyilwlaqHHBXcaEE41mDxrKD6sMaPNs= Received: by 10.231.0.95 with SMTP id 31mr210627iba.34.1301423278129; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:27:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.21.153 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:27:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4D9218DF.8060305@freebsd.org> References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> <4D9218DF.8060305@freebsd.org> From: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:27:38 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: haPcs5DVJTd2V9hW6JGvf65eUMc Message-ID: To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Julien Laffaye Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:27:59 -0000 2011/3/29 Andriy Gapon : > on 28/03/2011 21:22 Julien Laffaye said the following: >> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Garrett Cooper wr= ote: >>>> III. Package naming that includes architecture, major OS version (for = API/ABI), >>>> maybe more. >>> >>> This could be provided in the manifest. Doing it in the filename sort >>> of turns into a mess, as I've discovered working at Cisco :). >>> >> >> Actually, it *is* in the +MANIFEST of pkgng packages archives :-) > > Well, by the package name I meant not only a package file name. > Let's imagine that we do support installing i386 packages on amd64 in par= allel to > amd64 packages. =A0And for some reason I want to have both 32-bit and 64-= bit > versions of, say, firefox; e.g. for benchmarking. =A0If the packages woul= d have the > same name, then that would be impossible. > > I think that having some thing in package name in addition to package met= adata > could have certain benefits. > > -- > Andriy Gapon > I understand but I think pkgng is already quite radical changement. More change is taking the risk that it would be rejected in the end, we still do not have any reply from portmgr, there is no insurance pkgng will in the end replace pkg_install. Currently pkgng requires only very few changes from the ports infrastruture, I don't know the cost of changing the name scheme. If I'm not clear enough, supporting both 32bits and 64bits packages at the same time on amd64 or arches that could support this kind of installation, is a large change we don't want to take the responsability of :) and implementing this in pkgng would significate we already choose how it should work. regards, Bapt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 19:01:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF54106566B; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:01:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: from raven.bwct.de (raven.bwct.de [85.159.14.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC5D98FC16; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:01:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.cicely.de ([10.1.1.37]) by raven.bwct.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id p2TJ1GkN060723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:01:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (cicely7.cicely.de [10.1.1.9]) by mail.cicely.de (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2TJ0wX6028490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:00:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: from cicely7.cicely.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id p2TJ0vAO036209; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:00:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso@cicely7.cicely.de) Received: (from ticso@localhost) by cicely7.cicely.de (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id p2TJ0vLg036208; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:00:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ticso) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:00:57 +0200 From: Bernd Walter To: Andrew Duane Message-ID: <20110329190057.GG34921@cicely7.cicely.de> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> <4D90785C.1010802@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD cicely7.cicely.de 7.0-STABLE i386 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED=-1, BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on spamd.cicely.de Cc: Alexander Best , Andriy Gapon , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ticso@cicely.de List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:01:19 -0000 On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 01:50:20PM -0400, Andrew Duane wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Andriy Gapon > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:00 AM > To: Alexander Best > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers > Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader > > Please note that graphical loaders are not very serial console friendly ;-) > > -- > Andriy Gapon > > > Amen, and we have a whole lot of platforms that are only serial consoles (and 9600 baud at that). > Also, I like the letters instead of numbers for boot options, for those of us that have known for years that "s" is single user mode, "v" is verbose, etc.... This can hardly be an argument, because on serial consoles even the current full-screen implementation isn't friendly at all. One of the first things I always do is to disable beastie-start. As long as it is still based on ficl and can be disabled to get the traditional linemode I don't see a problem. -- B.Walter http://www.bwct.de Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 20:30:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E40E1065673; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:30:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4EB8FC0A; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:29:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyj12 with SMTP id 12so640311iyj.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:29:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZVYbnB6V77EpsX6c+vtdX9HUdibNTwKexiCquoNLqwI=; b=NOoMpXoAvv74P8uWifUtT7fY64COqeAn4+NhH7vU8iMsaZ6ZOXa4HFWdZWzdWFN004 IGJUYXU+vhN1G29DIXywkuW7nv0WyS8ZXdzZGhjkTFsIQY2JIyQDNcd+Iw1sNLyO0uHE JQrml2E1rVpwChqBnk1aSntmQWvwZJkXEUWMo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=NU9rN6gpHNP1h4tNVAmqpxkyIwQwTgblCiIQcXmEMzvVYLE/MTx+ED1WdRUtEz4M0v +FE3xTaF8wZ05siuArZ9c9MOzwUjLhWsp1JykI8VLiR3OER7kwQOuTC74tRzMvEigfH6 Sb8P5l0Jzw0PISWsK6TKkG2CQnDTYGGEQoVXc= Received: by 10.231.19.7 with SMTP id y7mr343623iba.134.1301430599149; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:29:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.21.153 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:29:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> <4D9218DF.8060305@freebsd.org> From: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:29:39 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ayX10IGKB_gu5c5zDomRskiu4U8 Message-ID: To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Julien Laffaye Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:30:00 -0000 2011/3/29 Baptiste Daroussin : > 2011/3/29 Andriy Gapon : >> on 28/03/2011 21:22 Julien Laffaye said the following: >>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Garrett Cooper w= rote: >>>>> III. Package naming that includes architecture, major OS version (for= API/ABI), >>>>> maybe more. >>>> >>>> This could be provided in the manifest. Doing it in the filename sort >>>> of turns into a mess, as I've discovered working at Cisco :). >>>> >>> >>> Actually, it *is* in the +MANIFEST of pkgng packages archives :-) >> >> Well, by the package name I meant not only a package file name. >> Let's imagine that we do support installing i386 packages on amd64 in pa= rallel to >> amd64 packages. =A0And for some reason I want to have both 32-bit and 64= -bit >> versions of, say, firefox; e.g. for benchmarking. =A0If the packages wou= ld have the >> same name, then that would be impossible. >> >> I think that having some thing in package name in addition to package me= tadata >> could have certain benefits. >> >> -- >> Andriy Gapon >> > > I understand but I think pkgng is already quite radical changement. > More change is taking the risk that it would be rejected in the end, > we still do not have any reply from portmgr, there is no insurance > pkgng will in the end replace pkg_install. Currently pkgng requires > only very few changes from the ports infrastruture, I don't know the > cost of changing the name scheme. > > If I'm not clear enough, supporting both 32bits and 64bits packages at > the same time on amd64 or arches that could support this kind of > installation, is a large change we don't want to take the > responsability of :) and implementing this in pkgng would significate > we already choose how it should work. > > regards, > Bapt > seems it was not clear :) ok let's try to say it simpler :) the main goal is to keep it simple for now, simple and rock solid, so that we can replace pkg_install and do some cleanup in the ports tree, add the "must have" features while doing that. And only when we will be ready for that and that portmgr have decided that it is mature enough to replace pkg_install, only after that we will start improving with new features and new changes. I thinks changing the package name scheme is not a "must have" feature, it for sure is and intresting feature, but what about pushing to after the first stable release? managing architecture as we plan to do it is enough imho. But I can be wrong. regards, Bapt From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 21:02:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id F0BDB1065672; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:02:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:02:33 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: ticso@cicely.de Message-ID: <20110329210233.GA18657@freebsd.org> References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> <4D90785C.1010802@freebsd.org> <20110329190057.GG34921@cicely7.cicely.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110329190057.GG34921@cicely7.cicely.de> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:02:34 -0000 On Tue Mar 29 11, Bernd Walter wrote: > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 01:50:20PM -0400, Andrew Duane wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Andriy Gapon > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:00 AM > > To: Alexander Best > > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers > > Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader > > > > Please note that graphical loaders are not very serial console friendly ;-) > > > > -- > > Andriy Gapon > > > > > > Amen, and we have a whole lot of platforms that are only serial consoles (and 9600 baud at that). > > Also, I like the letters instead of numbers for boot options, for those of us that have known for years that "s" is single user mode, "v" is verbose, etc.... > > This can hardly be an argument, because on serial consoles even > the current full-screen implementation isn't friendly at all. > One of the first things I always do is to disable beastie-start. > As long as it is still based on ficl and can be disabled to get > the traditional linemode I don't see a problem. actually it's quite easy. there are two kind of people: 1) the ones that like it plain and simple and 2) the ones that fancy eye candy lets have a boot loader for 1) which supports serial consoles and firewire stuff and verbose booting and all that stuff one for 2). > > -- > B.Walter http://www.bwct.de > Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm. -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 21:20:32 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCCF1065673 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:20:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mdf356@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C832F8FC27 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:20:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so667049wyf.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:20:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=8P6lPskZ1ZVwPYSzu4CYHmoixIQM078iMJnkferwslU=; b=bfWruG74uzsoyNP0CFzn3jlBmBRhO2Ufu9TjD/Q+vrlhsPu04Sso763NN201bsVKw5 XfL6iufNQ63hl+ti4dcQWuXYlehjWZ5SEzApJYcY5cDc9CP0xcuVEnOP8nwem8JnSAsB 5gi05YxPaNi8jfrlPpx9XTsgar0cu82vtjXvc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=nmYRrfEq7Tl5w3WIevvSPxNS3tBdB4V+ZyFWoQoSabj13cxZOfBHtzkfJvpnd9F4Eq hyxOD2LcqAnLkqWTSIrM80nTl4bcX5UXgXRhGBu0OSfm9IUz1AJb0MUi2+LizoCET9QG oX8vc4v2jJh4Q+c+iV0BuFr4RB8CYwQ8WCIfA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.69.3 with SMTP id m3mr443977wed.9.1301433630558; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Sender: mdf356@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.52.209 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:20:30 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 29m166qov-lwXD6PWNx-Sqok7PA Message-ID: From: mdf@FreeBSD.org To: freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:20:32 -0000 I thought I knew something about how the compiler looks for include files, but now I think maybe I don't know much. :-) So here's what I'm pondering. When I build a library, like e.g. libc, where do the include files get pulled from? They can't (shouldn't) be the ones in /usr/include, but I don't see a -nostdinc like for the kernel. There are -I directives in the Makefile for -I${.CURDIR}/include -I${.CURDIR}/../../include, etc., but that won't remove /usr/include from the search path. I see in the gcc documentation that -I paths are searched before the standards paths. But isn't the lack of -nostdinc a bug (not just for libc, but for any library in /usr/src/lib)? It somewhat feels to me that all of the libraries and binaries in the source distribution should use -nostdinc and include only from the source distribution itself. This isn't always an issue, but for source upgrades it seems crucial, and for a hacker it saves difficulties with having to install headers before re-building. Is that the intent, and it's not fully implemented? How badly would things break if -nostdinc was included in e.g. bsd.lib.mk? (This would break non-base libraries, yes? But as a thought experiment for the base, how far off are we?) Thanks, matthew From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 21:51:14 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id 857601065670; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:51:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:51:14 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: Xin LI Message-ID: <20110329215114.GA36220@freebsd.org> References: <20110325002115.GA323@freebsd.org> <20110325015508.GA14565@freebsd.org> <20110325024658.GA19544@freebsd.org> <336A9ACD-29BF-41C9-BC25-917CC1E4587D@bsdimp.com> <20110325195325.GA69264@freebsd.org> <20110325223203.GA95976@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching to [KMGTPE]i prefixes? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:51:14 -0000 On Fri Mar 25 11, Xin LI wrote: > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Alexander Best wrote: > > On Fri Mar 25 11, Xin LI wrote: > >> FYI I have a patch and I have incorporated some of Alexander's idea. > >> > >> Difference: > >> > >>  - Use of both HN_DIVISOR_1000 and HN_IEC_PREFIXES triggers an > >> assertion.  I think it doesn't make sense to return since this is an > >> API violation and we should just tell the caller explicitly; > > > > actually i vote for removing all asserts in humanize_number.c and return -1 > > based upon the later checks. > > > > the existing > > > > assert(buf != NULL); > > assert(suffix != NULL); > > > > checks aren't really needed, since buf and suffix are also checked later on. so > > just having: > > Well, one of my believes is that a program should crash as early as > possible, and with clear statement about "Why I crashed", when it's > compiled with debugging aids, like assertions. To test or not to test > these cases in a release binary on the other hand really depends on > whether there is security or other bad implications. This generally > makes developers' life easier, as they don't have to pursue into the > code to find out why the program crashed, etc. > > Unlike system calls, humanize_number(3) does not indicate what's wrong > via errno, e.g. it tells you "No I can't" rather than a reason of "Why > I can't do that". Assertions here gives it an opportunity to say it > loudly. > > If however the program is compiled with -DNDEBUG, these assertions > would became no-op. At this stage, in my opinion, only basic tests > should be done and we fall back to returning -1, or at least, not > crash the program in a mysterious way. > > For this reasons, I think the assertion here against flags is right, > it does not hurt if we proceed with both flags set, as we do not > access undefined memory nor overwrite undefined memory. Furthermore, > these values are more likely to be hard-wired at caller, where the > assertion should catch the case. > > >        if (scale <= 0 || (scale >= maxscale && > >            (scale & (HN_AUTOSCALE | HN_GETSCALE)) == 0)) > >                return (-1); > > I think this one is good to have for both assertion and tests. Note > that I think it should be scale < 0 here, scale == 0 seems to be a > valid value. > > >        if (buf == NULL || suffix == NULL) > >                return (-1); > > This duplication is necessary in my opinion. It's a protection > against NULL pointer deference at runtime. > > >        if ((flags & (HN_DIVISOR_1000 | HN_IEC_PREFIXES)) == 0) > >                return (-1); > > I'd vote no for this one for the reason above. > > >>  - DIVISOR_1000 and !1000 cases use just same prefixes, so merge them > >> while keeping divisor intact; > > > > good idea. however i think you should add a comment to point out that the > > default behavior is !DIVISOR_1000 && !HN_IEC_PREFIXES. one has to look very > > closely to find out. > > Will do. > > > #define HN_DECIMAL              0x01 > > #define HN_NOSPACE              0x02 > > #define HN_B                    0x04 > > #define HN_DIVISOR_1000         0x08 > > #define HN_IEC_PREFIXES         0x40 > > > > #define HN_GETSCALE             0x10 > > #define HN_AUTOSCALE            0x20 > > Thinking again and I think we are just fine to use HN_IEC_PREFIXES == > 0x10 here. I don't think there is a reason why we can't use 0x10 for > flags. > > Here is what in my mind. I have stolen some comments from your > version of patch to explain the meaning of the HN_IEC_PREFIXES option > as well. any plans to commit this patch? > > -- > Xin LI http://www.delphij.net -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 00:15:47 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7C6106566C; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:15:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F608FC1B; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:15:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iyj12 with SMTP id 12so879608iyj.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:15:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FN7VV5Pob/ZkifVIjDjv9OWbvkg7TR920J/BciX7g7s=; b=Ai1KFcth5nc0i+sL62Ysmj4CijpzHdbKVmMIjK7/bm81jNcZIBoeTF2HiKkNZb8gzT j71YW+6umbL6Szq5Jo3HZ8kPtNfwJEoJ+Z3/AUzxbNCNsVl1udhH3cJfqo86fqin7nqw SIbt7qk0FOjCAsL3DfqFxgF3C72L2xUqZ1X84= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=k4kv7eV+gWcyr5jN60Yjrg0s7XQ6YhKbABen4Zp9VzBZ+kLFvVyXGviAZrdP0IqZak sFKOXK5CSchgjwD+LxSNZTem24SefA7xWpVNq9ltU1upfs3o5CAVT5AgtXIyYyfN3MR0 z/0WsjdpBwveJSCgGa4MQkh9tazSvjak1Zb+E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.47.134 with SMTP id us6mr238291icb.152.1301444146661; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.143.209 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:15:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110329215114.GA36220@freebsd.org> References: <20110325002115.GA323@freebsd.org> <20110325015508.GA14565@freebsd.org> <20110325024658.GA19544@freebsd.org> <336A9ACD-29BF-41C9-BC25-917CC1E4587D@bsdimp.com> <20110325195325.GA69264@freebsd.org> <20110325223203.GA95976@freebsd.org> <20110329215114.GA36220@freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 17:15:46 -0700 Message-ID: From: Xin LI To: Alexander Best Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching to [KMGTPE]i prefixes? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:15:48 -0000 On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Alexander Best wrote= : > On Fri Mar 25 11, Xin LI wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Alexander Best wr= ote: >> > On Fri Mar 25 11, Xin LI wrote: >> >> FYI I have a patch and I have incorporated some of Alexander's idea. >> >> >> >> Difference: >> >> >> >> =C2=A0- Use of both HN_DIVISOR_1000 and HN_IEC_PREFIXES triggers an >> >> assertion. =C2=A0I think it doesn't make sense to return since this i= s an >> >> API violation and we should just tell the caller explicitly; >> > >> > actually i vote for removing all asserts in humanize_number.c and retu= rn -1 >> > based upon the later checks. >> > >> > the existing >> > >> > assert(buf !=3D NULL); >> > assert(suffix !=3D NULL); >> > >> > checks aren't really needed, since buf and suffix are also checked lat= er on. so >> > just having: >> >> Well, one of my believes is that a program should crash as early as >> possible, and with clear statement about "Why I crashed", when it's >> compiled with debugging aids, like assertions. =C2=A0To test or not to t= est >> these cases in a release binary on the other hand really depends on >> whether there is security or other bad implications. =C2=A0This generall= y >> makes developers' life easier, as they don't have to pursue into the >> code to find out why the program crashed, etc. >> >> Unlike system calls, humanize_number(3) does not indicate what's wrong >> via errno, e.g. it tells you "No I can't" rather than a reason of "Why >> I can't do that". =C2=A0Assertions here gives it an opportunity to say i= t >> loudly. >> >> If however the program is compiled with -DNDEBUG, these assertions >> would became no-op. =C2=A0At this stage, in my opinion, only basic tests >> should be done and we fall back to returning -1, or at least, not >> crash the program in a mysterious way. >> >> For this reasons, I think the assertion here against flags is right, >> it does not hurt if we proceed with both flags set, as we do not >> access undefined memory nor overwrite undefined memory. =C2=A0Furthermor= e, >> these values are more likely to be hard-wired at caller, where the >> assertion should catch the case. >> >> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if (scale <=3D 0 || (scale >=3D maxscale && >> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(scale & (HN_AUTOSCALE | HN_G= ETSCALE)) =3D=3D 0)) >> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0return (-1); >> >> I think this one is good to have for both assertion and tests. =C2=A0Not= e >> that I think it should be scale < 0 here, scale =3D=3D 0 seems to be a >> valid value. >> >> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if (buf =3D=3D NULL || suffix =3D=3D NULL) >> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0return (-1); >> >> This duplication is necessary in my opinion. =C2=A0It's a protection >> against NULL pointer deference at runtime. >> >> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if ((flags & (HN_DIVISOR_1000 | HN_IEC_PREF= IXES)) =3D=3D 0) >> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0return (-1); >> >> I'd vote no for this one for the reason above. >> >> >> =C2=A0- DIVISOR_1000 and !1000 cases use just same prefixes, so merge= them >> >> while keeping divisor intact; >> > >> > good idea. however i think you should add a comment to point out that = the >> > default behavior is !DIVISOR_1000 && !HN_IEC_PREFIXES. one has to look= very >> > closely to find out. >> >> Will do. >> >> > #define HN_DECIMAL =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x0= 1 >> > #define HN_NOSPACE =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x0= 2 >> > #define HN_B =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A00x04 >> > #define HN_DIVISOR_1000 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0x08 >> > #define HN_IEC_PREFIXES =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0x40 >> > >> > #define HN_GETSCALE =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0x10 >> > #define HN_AUTOSCALE =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00x20 >> >> Thinking again and I think we are just fine to use HN_IEC_PREFIXES =3D= =3D >> 0x10 here. =C2=A0I don't think there is a reason why we can't use 0x10 f= or >> flags. >> >> Here is what in my mind. =C2=A0I have stolen some comments from your >> version of patch to explain the meaning of the HN_IEC_PREFIXES option >> as well. > > any plans to commit this patch? I think I should be able to commit a final version by Friday, still need some polishing... Cheers, --=20 Xin LI http://www.delphij.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 00:58:42 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id E52B41065674; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:58:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:58:42 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110330005842.GA58153@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: dtrace's hotkernel script reports a memory location (0xffffffff80) instead of a function name X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:58:43 -0000 hi there, while running the hotkernel dtrace script from DTraceToolkit-0.99 i noticed the following: [...] kernel`sopoll_generic 60 0.1% kernel`bcopy 80 0.2% kernel`uma_zalloc_arg 100 0.2% kernel`selrecord 100 0.2% kernel`__curthread 110 0.2% kernel`syscallenter 120 0.2% kernel`fget_unlocked 130 0.3% kernel`0xffffffff80 140 0.3% kernel`copyin 190 0.4% kernel`copyout 220 0.4% kernel`inl 491 1.0% kernel`atomic_cmpset_long 570 1.1% kernel`write_rflags 652 1.3% kernel`ia32_pause 1211 2.4% kernel`cpu_mwait 1610 3.2% kernel`sched_idletd 1900 3.8% kernel`acpi_cpu_c1 40284 80.3% i talked to a few people on #bsddev, but nobody could tell me what 0xffffffff80 was refering to. kgdb(1) reports "Error accessing memory address 0xffffffff80: Bad address" for that location. any idea? -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 05:23:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B80106564A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:23:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6701E8FC17 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:23:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so1114399iwn.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:23:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4euZ0GbKg8puv+BpfDU9mRMwx1dpVe8qdkwSx0k2gJs=; b=HJOneJ5lb0lQ0kjxYF7UsjS94ObeUKidI1dgMp3+x8tn4xlL+Cd4Xe0k2aS32i8GgB Qw+k+mSfNDolx62Wd/DuBXe+5k2P7Q5BnmaGgqHiSUTRecMIam8iOCXdxDWAHzplK9pJ vbeiIcomAucTP4h+5CxpESDQegIYM2+o+Tm7E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GOLxtRx3N9qZXwl3XRca3EZzpcYH7qHIxKhrOed3ONi97jvUVKkGdcMeOHbr4ZATSo oyvoIddNrODZKd839bygFOVrbOFpG5cvnBJmBODHdOW2HnlUwhJzwiaWLDYrX02wh3JW O5OWMXdkNd4Y2lencpcdddjPIjfM4HJEPop8E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.63.72 with SMTP id xd8mr580613icb.215.1301462618571; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.146.72 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:23:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <16FA7C02-86B0-46E6-A923-BC61357478FA@vicor.com> <1BC34FC3-7526-4DAA-964A-DDFD465DB830@bsdimp.com> <20110328110807.GA44745@freebsd.org> <4D90785C.1010802@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 01:23:38 -0400 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: Andrew Duane Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Alexander Best , Andriy Gapon , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:23:40 -0000 Hi, On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Andrew Duane wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@fre= ebsd.org] On Behalf Of Andriy Gapon > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:00 AM > To: Alexander Best > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers > Subject: Re: New Boot-Loader > > Please note that graphical loaders are not very serial console friendly ;= -) > > -- > Andriy Gapon > > > Amen, and we have a whole lot of platforms that are only serial consoles = (and 9600 baud at that). FWIW, an interesting thing, from my point of view, would be to get rid of that 9600bps limitation due to the use of INT14 in the first stage bootloader to have access to more descent serial console speed in early boot stage. > Also, I like the letters instead of numbers for boot options, for those o= f us that have known for years that "s" is single user mode, "v" is verbose= , etc.... > you can also have a thought to the people who are used to use numbers :) - Arnaud > > > =A0................................... > Andrew Duane > Juniper Networks > o=A0=A0=A0+1 978 589 0551 > m=A0 +1 603-770-7088 > aduane@juniper.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 06:00:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD06106564A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:00:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jogalara@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903338FC0A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:00:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so955250wyf.13 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:00:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type; bh=aDOGG27r1G60KOeZQsrehR57ffQHki1XSacNYbT4OjY=; b=jYqKff/vbcx41wRT86ppqAAGt1Af1idZJZV3BEW6jhmJ96X442wCaolE8Rsfj65E5m JZeYqa5+C3Eo2vhI3uSM70AN5U/OHL/gXgtyTBMdot5pkChrHZBdPwlsFmdprXT9wBzT jA1NgC91I6CkO7wxuyUEcXfzNlEul335HfpA8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :x-enigmail-version:openpgp:content-type; b=iSlrZ+d5X/j05fiD/YGFH6gSRPR6ajieXhzp/nlAKaJCcf1QrDc5vV0vWhnHuaw+6k r4M9KNEnMkYYL+eRJA+rOpaM1/ZZodm+4LrInN3rWv3WXIMQE1NEFvOIF93c6eK9uxIC RA3hQahsemOObL/X7bwX+49pNNsJsthNhP1b8= Received: by 10.227.147.198 with SMTP id m6mr752948wbv.78.1301463121035; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (blfd-4d086cc4.pool.mediaWays.net [77.8.108.196]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y29sm2803629wbd.38.2011.03.29.22.32.00 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:31:27 +0200 From: Jo Galara User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.14) Gecko/20110223 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 OpenPGP: id=A5432AC2 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigFEAA1D9458D13378B2A69CCE" Subject: E-Mail if updates available? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:00:40 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigFEAA1D9458D13378B2A69CCE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, on Debian I'm using apticron which sends me an email if there are updates available for installed packages. Is there a similar program for FreeBSD? --=20 Regards, Jo Galara --------------enigFEAA1D9458D13378B2A69CCE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJNksBOAAoJEBKHQOClQyrCpVUQAIDeb4+o9YRd2/FbgtNbJJLs 38pssjD9fwvlkYoXfLDZ2UrRJhOZDpwNCiSnMdFH0o1JEt6f2rvgZzWFgkNTrKx/ HMfRiMCYXpllG6rEgQ7VYFfGkfEsJNatlSyLp7nyFQiecsS0Ig0nu8QMVUBPunRU ydkj2uOfHRa23Fy/QnpXuV60MK+ddzW2p0p8NvN8eXZDQfT+6yPJHpj23FrjXF2O PgAE9iELbxk0qf6ReiH5B6IMdDkPEnHuoZ2pYLiTSYS6yq3108sVAbQ0qJVZv6/+ kO1q9tXmsQCcA2h4DlOZ6Qpt2lp48jfzvii8xwUqQOrx1NQymE05pYwdEx5R0m3H jGpkhnGROP9thGh1Nm0tCyS65FPR43LPoCTYrrfEa1fMJSoBCgArLtyperITkpaZ FazMRUHn86cUVS/q7LKeC5dW+QbMfq4TklYAxB3ietRIZ2wJdDGXsBdIN7L1WKdp FT+CbKY9uD/eMtO1iwJpE/sMLzWxUVlJFPpFp8LHu0UgNC5vzghdlFr8DUfEYWjo vVyxgAyLJCac0GGV9RKQsNTOM+FdZPC6TJj4WqOe1JUoZe0OiHaDy7Rjx7XkNkKZ mtu5TvA3zs8xN80Yh/QH56VzfNxRJPCP+FVpBzV1YHVnUJu0UXsuBNv1po1P9Yh5 E1eELBh7ggM12hGFA87X =lzhA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigFEAA1D9458D13378B2A69CCE-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 06:18:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96ED9106564A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:18:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wilkinsa@dsto.defence.gov.au) Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au (digger1.defence.gov.au [203.5.217.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE358FC08 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:18:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ednmsw520.dsto.defence.gov.au (ednmsw520.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.68.60]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (DSTO/DSTO) with ESMTP id p2U63mSW006302 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:33:48 +0930 (CST) Received: from ednex510.dsto.defence.gov.au (ednex510.dsto.defence.gov.au) by ednmsw520.dsto.defence.gov.au (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.4.0) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:35:36 +1030 Received: from stlex511.dsto.defence.gov.au ([203.6.60.49]) by ednex510.dsto.defence.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:35:35 +1030 Received: from stlux550.dsto.defence.gov.au ([203.6.60.61]) by stlex511.dsto.defence.gov.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:05:32 +0800 Received: from stlux550.dsto.defence.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stlux550.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p2U65WU2069232 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:05:32 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from wilkinsa@stlux550.dsto.defence.gov.au) Received: (from wilkinsa@localhost) by stlux550.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id p2U65W4T069231 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:05:32 +0800 (WST) (envelope-from wilkinsa) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:05:32 +0800 From: "Wilkinson, Alex" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110330060532.GK63105@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> Organisation: Defence Science Technology Organisation X-Message-Flag: "Please Restore Line Breaks If Necessary" User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2011 06:05:33.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[7ABAED80:01CBEEA0] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-10.0.0.1412-6.500.1024-18042.004 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.375500-0.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: Yes X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: E-Mail if updates available? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 06:18:01 -0000 0n Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 07:31:27AM +0200, Jo Galara wrote: >on Debian I'm using apticron which sends me an email if there are >updates available for installed packages. Is there a similar program for >FreeBSD? subscribe to: http://www.freshports.org/ -Alex IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Department of Defence and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the Crimes Act 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 09:16:01 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B46A106566B for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:16:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Received: from unsane.co.uk (unsane-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f08:110::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B958FC12 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:16:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vhoffman.lon.namesco.net (lon.namesco.net [195.7.254.102]) (authenticated bits=0) by unsane.co.uk (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2U9FwHK007257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:15:59 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from vince@unsane.co.uk) Message-ID: <4D92F4CE.3040906@unsane.co.uk> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:15:58 +0100 From: Vincent Hoffman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jo Galara References: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: E-Mail if updates available? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:16:01 -0000 On 30/03/2011 06:31, Jo Galara wrote: > Hi, > > on Debian I'm using apticron which sends me an email if there are > updates available for installed packages. Is there a similar program for > FreeBSD? > Hi, I use ports rather than packages, so a combination of a cron for portsnap to update the portstree (at some silly time so I wont accidentally update ports while portsnap is doing stuff to the ports tree, see the manpage.) and "portmaster -L | grep New" I dont cron it but you could easily enough, (portmaster is ports-mgmt/portmaster , you could use the tools from ports-mgmt/portupgrade of you prefer.) Oh and I'd suggest freebsd-questions as a better list for this kind of query. Vince From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 07:22:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C7E106566C for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:22:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BD38FC08 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:22:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5B154942.dip.t-dialin.net [91.21.73.66]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E9C5D844015; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:22:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D519F192B; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:22:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p2U7MZ64047341; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:22:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:22:34 +0200 Message-ID: <20110330092234.17617il05wvp2u0w@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:22:34 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: husaini harun References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.6) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: E9C5D844015.A1166 X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=0, required 6, autolearn=disabled) X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1302074560.15107@yBjdXgfrgwPeSWkXnFKJyQ X-EBL-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:17:23 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ask for soc project & idea X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:22:44 -0000 Quoting husaini harun (from Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:45:59 +0000): > example I would like to join existing projects, will have to submit proposal > too ? Yes. This is because we want to see if you have a more or less good idea what you can do during the GSoC and if you understand the complexity of the things to do. It also tells what you are interested in to do during thhe GSoC. You do not tell which existing projects, so it could be you talk about things which are huge and can be split into multiple pieces and the proposal is to tell about which piece you want to take care about. Bye, Alexander. -- Aberdeen was so small that when the family with the car went on vacation, the gas station and drive-in theatre had to close. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 07:23:42 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D068106564A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:23:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F92C8FC12 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:23:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 97EF25615A; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:06:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:06:31 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110330070631.GA17378@lonesome.com> References: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> <20110330060532.GK63105@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110330060532.GK63105@stlux503.dsto.defence.gov.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:17:39 +0000 Cc: linimon@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: E-Mail if updates available? [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:23:42 -0000 On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 02:05:32PM +0800, Wilkinson, Alex wrote: > > 0n Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 07:31:27AM +0200, Jo Galara wrote: > > >on Debian I'm using apticron which sends me an email if there are > >updates available for installed packages. Is there a similar program for > >FreeBSD? > > subscribe to: http://www.freshports.org/ That covers ports, but not packages. We don't have anything like that in place right now. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 07:27:26 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8B9106566B for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:27:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826D88FC16 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:27:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5B154942.dip.t-dialin.net [91.21.73.66]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0A8B844015; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:27:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E713A192C; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:27:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p2U7RH3i048421; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:27:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:27:17 +0200 Message-ID: <20110330092717.16942q08bjvxvy2o@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:27:17 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: husaini harun References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.6) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: E0A8B844015.AE6EE X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=0, required 6, autolearn=disabled) X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1302074842.48826@Ama3Mhg2RVoSR0UhNRjVuQ X-EBL-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:17:51 +0000 Cc: mprevot@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ask about Document all sysctls - gsoc 2011 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:27:26 -0000 Quoting husaini harun (from Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:20:51 +0000): > I am interested to participate "Document all sysctls" - gsoc 2011 > > could provide specific to this project, such as how to start a project, in > addition, I was FreeBSD 8.2, ZFS users, I have yet to send proposal on > freebsd-hackers at freebsd.org This is a pure documentation project, not a coding project. The GSoC is about coding, not about documenting (http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/faqs#documentation). So this project is not suitable for the GSoC. Bye, Alexander. -- Assumption is the mother of all foul-ups. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 07:32:24 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2B6106566C for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:32:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A5D8FC12 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:32:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5B154942.dip.t-dialin.net [91.21.73.66]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7071C844015; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:32:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (webmail.Leidinger.net [IPv6:fd73:10c7:2053:1::2:102]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85960192D; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:32:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.leidinger.net (8.14.4/8.13.8/Submit) id p2U7WEL6049703; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:32:14 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from Alexander@Leidinger.net) Received: from pslux.ec.europa.eu (pslux.ec.europa.eu [158.169.9.14]) by webmail.leidinger.net (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:32:14 +0200 Message-ID: <20110330093214.34886my6wjnii2rk@webmail.leidinger.net> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:32:14 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Jo Galara References: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Dynamic Internet Messaging Program (DIMP) H3 (1.1.6) X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: 7071C844015.AD606 X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=0, required 6, autolearn=disabled) X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1302075139.08264@mDe2glATUyfcNFlsEp8Jzg X-EBL-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:18:39 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: E-Mail if updates available? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:32:24 -0000 Quoting Jo Galara (from Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:31:27 +0200): > Hi, > > on Debian I'm using apticron which sends me an email if there are > updates available for installed packages. Is there a similar program for > FreeBSD? If you have portupgrade installed you can change /etc/periodic.conf: ---snip--- weekly_status_pkg_enable="YES" pkg_version="/usr/local/sbin/portversion -O" pkg_version_index="" ---snip--- This will tell you in the weekly mail about ports which could be updated. Bye, Alexander. -- Love thy neighbor, tune thy piano. http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 08:32:32 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9DB7106564A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:32:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail25@bzerk.org) Received: from ei.bzerk.org (tunnel490.ipv6.xs4all.nl [IPv6:2001:888:10:1ea::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E938FC16 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:32:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ei.bzerk.org (BOFH@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ei.bzerk.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2U8TdoY046754 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:29:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mail25@bzerk.org) Received: (from bulk@localhost) by ei.bzerk.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2U8TdTk046753; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:29:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from mail25@bzerk.org) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:29:39 +0200 From: Ruben de Groot To: Jo Galara Message-ID: <20110330082939.GA46743@ei.bzerk.org> Mail-Followup-To: Ruben de Groot , Jo Galara , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4D92C02F.4000500@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on ei.bzerk.org X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (ei.bzerk.org [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:32:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:19:14 +0000 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: E-Mail if updates available? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:32:32 -0000 /usr/sbin/pkg_version -vIL= On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 07:31:27AM +0200, Jo Galara typed: > Hi, > > on Debian I'm using apticron which sends me an email if there are > updates available for installed packages. Is there a similar program for > FreeBSD? > > -- > Regards, > > Jo Galara > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 12:27:27 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8E51065677; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:27:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E438FC13; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:27:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (66.111.2.69.static.nyinternet.net [66.111.2.69]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6D40946B49; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00EA58A01B; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:27:25 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:00:11 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110325; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201103300800.11548.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Cc: mdf@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:27:27 -0000 On Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:20:30 pm mdf@freebsd.org wrote: > I thought I knew something about how the compiler looks for include > files, but now I think maybe I don't know much. :-) > > So here's what I'm pondering. When I build a library, like e.g. libc, > where do the include files get pulled from? They can't (shouldn't) be > the ones in /usr/include, but I don't see a -nostdinc like for the > kernel. There are -I directives in the Makefile for > -I${.CURDIR}/include -I${.CURDIR}/../../include, etc., but that won't > remove /usr/include from the search path. > > I see in the gcc documentation that -I paths are searched before the > standards paths. But isn't the lack of -nostdinc a bug (not just for > libc, but for any library in /usr/src/lib)? It somewhat feels to me > that all of the libraries and binaries in the source distribution > should use -nostdinc and include only from the source distribution > itself. This isn't always an issue, but for source upgrades it seems > crucial, and for a hacker it saves difficulties with having to install > headers before re-building. > > Is that the intent, and it's not fully implemented? How badly would > things break if -nostdinc was included in e.g. bsd.lib.mk? (This would > break non-base libraries, yes? But as a thought experiment for the > base, how far off are we?) If you are building a library by hand you do want to use the includes from /usr/include. I am not sure how we accomplish during buildworld (but we do). I think we actually build the compiler in the cross-tools stage such that it uses the /usr/include directory under {WORLDTMP} in place of /usr/include in the default search path. Some other folks might be able to verify that (perhaps ru@?). -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 15:05:26 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE46106566B for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:05:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lacombar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gy0-f182.google.com (mail-gy0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F61B8FC0A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:05:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gyg13 with SMTP id 13so633679gyg.13 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:05:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ceYKLIj6vNJzPygtuN7h4QWAOZ+QhCbRAuyku3loCHU=; b=ozdMWsNzT+/mALG8btKGrPCQqZw7y0OSN6EbL3TA47lwzvMJizysUXZtWWxP9kJrGg 8CsQzWkWX+QNTkzJvRBqrcyf7n0bCSDVtWKX0xxgcJltSmo2gN2WiwfGVRjficWdeOS1 cqX94RfZmeDjcE8k9/GLFkI1jI+vnKMNZduCU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lTqRvBgCBoV1Q5VFAxQUHkP97gRgix7pmB52nCtUXjdujdjM7pMmVWN2RqM1Hx+3wZ 00ktop/8OWl2dngMQPcNNSNmt4AkSk00DF+Pk4GAP6/Nlc9EnD8yYuKV6KM0IZxU6vBG rkN8BPlARBTZglAMLQFxpzjppK8C9QJAKVHOI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.197.27 with SMTP id ei27mr1260235ibb.198.1301497524592; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.146.72 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 08:05:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201103300800.11548.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <201103300800.11548.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:05:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: Arnaud Lacombe To: John Baldwin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, mdf@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:05:26 -0000 Hi, On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:00 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:20:30 pm mdf@freebsd.org wrote: >> I thought I knew something about how the compiler looks for include >> files, but now I think maybe I don't know much. :-) >> >> So here's what I'm pondering. =A0When I build a library, like e.g. libc, >> where do the include files get pulled from? =A0They can't (shouldn't) be >> the ones in /usr/include, but I don't see a -nostdinc like for the >> kernel. =A0There are -I directives in the Makefile for >> -I${.CURDIR}/include -I${.CURDIR}/../../include, etc., but that won't >> remove /usr/include from the search path. >> >> I see in the gcc documentation that -I paths are searched before the >> standards paths. =A0But isn't the lack of -nostdinc a bug (not just for >> libc, but for any library in /usr/src/lib)? =A0It somewhat feels to me >> that all of the libraries and binaries in the source distribution >> should use -nostdinc and include only from the source distribution >> itself. =A0This isn't always an issue, but for source upgrades it seems >> crucial, and for a hacker it saves difficulties with having to install >> headers before re-building. >> >> Is that the intent, and it's not fully implemented? =A0How badly would >> things break if -nostdinc was included in e.g. bsd.lib.mk? (This would >> break non-base libraries, yes? =A0But as a thought experiment for the >> base, how far off are we?) > > If you are building a library by hand you do want to use the includes fro= m > /usr/include. =A0I am not sure how we accomplish during buildworld (but w= e do). > I think we actually build the compiler in the cross-tools stage such that > it uses the /usr/include directory under {WORLDTMP} in place of /usr/incl= ude > in the default search path. > > Some other folks might be able to verify that (perhaps ru@?). > FWIW (I've been hacking around `buildworld' lately), yes, and the `_includes' stage is responsible to populate ${WORLDTMP}/usr/include. The same goes for ${WORLDTMP}/usr/lib and `_libraries'. That was with a 7-stable tree, I'm not sure how clang integrates in all this. The same way I suppose. - Arnaud > -- > John Baldwin > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 15:23:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CEC0106566B; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:23:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (cl-327.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:7b8:2ff:146::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46A68FC1C; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:23:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:b89e:221f:6736:25e3] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:b89e:221f:6736:25e3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E87265C59; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:23:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:23:32 +0200 From: Dimitry Andric Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.16pre) Gecko/20110319 Lanikai/3.1.10pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mdf@FreeBSD.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:23:36 -0000 On 2011-03-29 23:20, mdf@FreeBSD.org wrote: > So here's what I'm pondering. When I build a library, like e.g. libc, > where do the include files get pulled from? They can't (shouldn't) be > the ones in /usr/include, but I don't see a -nostdinc like for the > kernel. There are -I directives in the Makefile for > -I${.CURDIR}/include -I${.CURDIR}/../../include, etc., but that won't > remove /usr/include from the search path. During the bootstrap stage, a copy of gcc (or clang) is built, that has all default search paths for headers, libraries, etc, set relative to ${WORLDTMP}, usually /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp. E.g: $ /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/gcc -v -E -x c /dev/null -o /dev/null Using built-in specs. Target: amd64-undermydesk-freebsd Configured with: FreeBSD/amd64 system compiler Thread model: posix gcc version 4.2.1 20070719 [FreeBSD] /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/cc1 -E -quiet -v -D_LONGLONG /dev/null -o /dev/null #include "..." search starts here: #include <...> search starts here: /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/gcc/4.2 /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include End of search list. and: $ /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/gcc -print-search-dirs install: /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/ programs: =/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/ libraries: =/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib/ This is a rather nasty hack, though. If we can make it work, we should probably try using --sysroot instead, or alternatively, -nostdinc and adding include dirs by hand. The same for executable and library search paths, although I am not sure if there is a way to completely reset those with the current options. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 15:26:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94EC2106566C for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:26:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nwhitehorn@freebsd.org) Received: from agogare.doit.wisc.edu (agogare.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.197.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68AC08FC1B for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:26:50 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from avs-daemon.smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) id <0LIV00300MWPRT00@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:26:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from comporellon.tachypleus.net ([unknown] [76.210.65.155]) by smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.05 32bit (built Jul 30 2009)) with ESMTPSA id <0LIV00HF4MWN2C30@smtpauth2.wiscmail.wisc.edu> for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:26:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:26:47 -0500 From: Nathan Whitehorn In-reply-to: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-id: <4D934BB7.9080201@freebsd.org> X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=76.210.65.155 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-14, Version=5.6.0.2009776, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.3.30.151816, SenderIP=76.210.65.155 References: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110305 Thunderbird/3.1.9 Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:26:50 -0000 On 03/30/11 10:23, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 2011-03-29 23:20, mdf@FreeBSD.org wrote: >> So here's what I'm pondering. When I build a library, like e.g. libc, >> where do the include files get pulled from? They can't (shouldn't) be >> the ones in /usr/include, but I don't see a -nostdinc like for the >> kernel. There are -I directives in the Makefile for >> -I${.CURDIR}/include -I${.CURDIR}/../../include, etc., but that won't >> remove /usr/include from the search path. > > During the bootstrap stage, a copy of gcc (or clang) is built, that has > all default search paths for headers, libraries, etc, set relative to > ${WORLDTMP}, usually /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp. > > E.g: > > $ /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/gcc -v -E -x c /dev/null -o /dev/null > Using built-in specs. > Target: amd64-undermydesk-freebsd > Configured with: FreeBSD/amd64 system compiler > Thread model: posix > gcc version 4.2.1 20070719 [FreeBSD] > /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/cc1 -E -quiet -v -D_LONGLONG > /dev/null -o /dev/null > #include "..." search starts here: > #include <...> search starts here: > /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include/gcc/4.2 > /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/include > End of search list. > > and: > > $ /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/gcc -print-search-dirs > install: /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/ > programs: > =/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/bin/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/libexec/ > libraries: =/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib/:/usr/obj/usr/src/tmp/usr/lib/ > > This is a rather nasty hack, though. If we can make it work, we should > probably try using --sysroot instead, or alternatively, -nostdinc and > adding include dirs by hand. The same for executable and library search > paths, although I am not sure if there is a way to completely reset > those with the current options. Since you need to build two compilers anyway (one for the current system, to build the new one, and one to live in the new one, linked against new libraries), I don't see that it's such a nasty hack. -Nathan From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 15:45:44 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A97110656A9; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (cl-327.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:7b8:2ff:146::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7E08FC17; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:b89e:221f:6736:25e3] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:b89e:221f:6736:25e3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E19A5C59; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:45:43 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4D935026.7010105@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:45:42 +0200 From: Dimitry Andric Organization: The FreeBSD Project User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.16pre) Gecko/20110319 Lanikai/3.1.10pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nathan Whitehorn References: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> <4D934BB7.9080201@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <4D934BB7.9080201@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:45:44 -0000 On 2011-03-30 17:26, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: ... >> During the bootstrap stage, a copy of gcc (or clang) is built, that has >> all default search paths for headers, libraries, etc, set relative to >> ${WORLDTMP}, usually /usr/obj/usr/src/tmp. ... > Since you need to build two compilers anyway (one for the current > system, to build the new one, and one to live in the new one, linked > against new libraries), I don't see that it's such a nasty hack. The building itself is not a problem, of course, and it is even required if you want to update anything in the toolchain itself. However, we have added some custom #ifdef FREEBSD_NATIVE parts to support this feature, so you cannot use stock gcc source to build such a temporary compiler. This can be problematic if we ever want to be able to use toolchains outside of the source tree. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 14:09:30 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B63F106566C; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:09:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dudinskyj@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C508FC18; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:09:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so608276gwb.13 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:09:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=rDBrGcV2Bk8Ki/YQr/0XLretyKpAOGgjqHAxxghyNy4=; b=rdpgUnDQEfxePVaj+eh8VifLFHueqjxatvKEZjQrTprCmiMFL3WnTkMRWOzwvctLg5 Dg/mY3HKl5qTHw+NhYdkoIrpOxd1Z88KWa/OqknlCvHwz5JNSLMDdfjpDv/t8Dj0YRBn TN9BDv1ekzhkKz8plCBz82s1YEXlO/bUVL6KE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=IbtCc8aYLGqxwZMXayyShF5NzsEDzurV1cb86Hv6bbxCPDlP2q0r6Ilg3xoPYOJrrD wVWwomM5JbqTEjDFYq/7N1jv+jEC6Wf08Ic1KkYV49JlCsJ/KU7FJSuJbGcaejI99dKl sM8L78SNPcqA/VymBKM4o0GBa9KirEmxocix8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.29.1 with SMTP id g1mr1541710ybj.274.1301494169253; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:09:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.12.10 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:09:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <000501cbeace$9008a7c0$b019f740$@com> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:09:29 +0300 Message-ID: From: =?KOI8-R?B?4czFy9PBzsTSIOTVxMnO08vJyg==?= To: Robert Watson X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:47:30 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GSoC X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:09:30 -0000 Hello. Sorry I did not write all the details of the project immediately. I'll try to explain my project. The present system has no utility statistic errors for disk devices that is not convenient for analyzing faults disk as a result unstable operation of programs. I propose to develop a system based on command iostat -e or-E (depending of the desired information) for these statistic, also using existing and available information in the utility. For testing changes I propose systematically analyzing disc errors that are not yet classified, and then compare the quantity of these errors and the number of detected. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 30 18:01:17 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7E11065677; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:01:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E108FC1A; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:01:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from warner-losh.int.fusionio.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.3/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p2UHsEK3032553; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:54:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:54:14 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> To: Dimitry Andric X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: mdf@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 18:01:17 -0000 On Mar 30, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Dimitry Andric wrote: > This is a rather nasty hack, though. If we can make it work, we = should > probably try using --sysroot instead, or alternatively, -nostdinc and > adding include dirs by hand. The same for executable and library = search > paths, although I am not sure if there is a way to completely reset > those with the current options. I'm pretty sure that the origins of this hack pre-dates the -sysroot = feature in gcc. It works in -current and has for years, so nobody has = cared enough to even contemplate changing it. If you can make the sysroot feature work, that would be great, since = that would allow us to skip the compiler building phase if we were = building using external compilers. I have some patches to make that = work, but this very problem is what I'd worked my way up to. It works = well if you are building current on current, but not so well if you are = mixing versions (you can mix architectures if you are using the xdev = feature I put in a while ago, but even that has one or two niggles I = need to iron out). Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 00:05:52 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77311065687 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:05:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from seanbru@yahoo-inc.com) Received: from mrout1-b.corp.re1.yahoo.com (mrout1-b.corp.re1.yahoo.com [69.147.107.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791A58FC1A for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:05:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (rideseveral.corp.yahoo.com [10.73.160.231]) by mrout1-b.corp.re1.yahoo.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/y.out) with ESMTP id p2UNsOJs045431 for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:54:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=yahoo-inc.com; s=cobra; t=1301529264; bh=BY/HhONnfs1DTBfeq4zN8WYY69+QrW1rrKNCKWYECtw=; h=Subject:From:To:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Xg7kQlJBtBu6l8pAFsRUCDH7og3HFt/a3uG1PtjWrCmPL67dEs0dtkNFhG6BL1EC1 C0S08zmNVMwrWLGNPuHZ158c7/iXUcdGkZDjmhNxq1p/zghX3w12n+up+5a3gCoweN xWldoyKXuwgYLh37qcVeYWsNH7zWnwgpmdRsxYJ0= From: Sean Bruno To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:54:24 -0700 Message-ID: <1301529264.2547.18.camel@hitfishpass-lx.corp.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.2 (2.32.2-1.fc14) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: (free)(open)IPMI tools in base X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:05:52 -0000 I'm not particular at the moment, but with the proliferation of IPMI in the server environment, is there any consideration to putting one of the appropriately licensed tools into the base? Sean From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 00:26:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFEC2106564A for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:26:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mj@feral.com) Received: from ns1.feral.com (ns1.feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0928FC1B for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:26:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.16.135.103] (lportal.in1.lcl [172.16.1.9]) by ns1.feral.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p2V0Qc0j096633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:26:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mj@feral.com) Message-ID: <4D93CA3B.6010502@feral.com> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:26:35 -0700 From: Matthew Jacob Organization: Feral Software User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <1301529264.2547.18.camel@hitfishpass-lx.corp.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1301529264.2547.18.camel@hitfishpass-lx.corp.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (ns1.feral.com [192.168.221.1]); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:26:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: (free)(open)IPMI tools in base X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:26:40 -0000 I don't think that this is a good idea for a number of reasons. IPMI is not nearly as prevalent as one might think it is, it is not a true standard (Intel only), and there are a variety of good toolsets that are very easy to install. Finally, users of IPMI are sophisticated enough to install it when they need it and want it. I can't think of a case where a novice end user needs it and isn't delivered a box preconfigured. On 3/30/2011 4:54 PM, Sean Bruno wrote: > I'm not particular at the moment, but with the proliferation of IPMI in > the server environment, is there any consideration to putting one of the > appropriately licensed tools into the base? > > Sean > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 08:01:50 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A4F1065670 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:01:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (agora.rdrop.com [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C758FC0C for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:01:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id p2V81mn2089276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:01:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.9/Submit) with UUCP id p2V81mDa089275; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fbsd61 by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA07046; Wed, 30 Mar 11 23:52:03 PST Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:51:47 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: matthias.andree@gmx.de Message-Id: <4d943293.B/SvzTs8z8S9S+hy%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <8CDBB88B5271976-11D4-322B@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> <4D90EDFD.8070402@gmx.de> <4d91900e.aNSfFKEtFazonwkG%perryh@pluto.rain.com> <4D91F12E.3050803@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <4D91F12E.3050803@gmx.de> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Keeping /etc/localtime up-to-date X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:01:50 -0000 Matthias Andree wrote: > > If they're in the same physical FS there's no need for a symlink. > > You might as well use a hardlink. > > And then discuss how all the time zone configuration tools deal > with /etc/localtime - truncate/overwrite, direct overwrite ... In that case neither a symlink nor a hardlink is safe, regardless of whether /etc and /usr/share/timezone are in the same FS. Either truncate/overwrite or direct overwrite will trash the target of a symlink just as they would the file identified by a hardlink. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 14:54:27 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCB3E1065670; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:54:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471A18FC08; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:54:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id RAA08552; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:54:24 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4D94959F.3090507@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:54:23 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110309 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Baptiste Daroussin References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> <4D9218DF.8060305@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, current@FreeBSD.org, Julien Laffaye Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:54:27 -0000 on 29/03/2011 23:29 Baptiste Daroussin said the following: > ok let's try to say it simpler :) the main goal is to keep it simple > for now, simple and rock solid, so that we can replace pkg_install and > do some cleanup in the ports tree, add the "must have" features while > doing that. And only when we will be ready for that and that portmgr > have decided that it is mature enough to replace pkg_install, only > after that we will start improving with new features and new changes. > > I thinks changing the package name scheme is not a "must have" > feature, it for sure is and intresting feature, but what about pushing > to after the first stable release? managing architecture as we plan to > do it is enough imho. Oh, yes, I realize all this and totally agree with it. Given how huge and how visible our ports and packages systems are, it's better to be slow and cautious. All the ideas that I suggested were more for the "next step" than for now. Thank you for the work! -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 15:02:09 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3BC1065670; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:02:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6778FC23; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:02:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iwn33 with SMTP id 33so3097886iwn.13 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:02:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=yFoPhmdNigMv+TShFMkqVUVIpWVfl7g61LAeO75Mfz4=; b=v3o8f74by+dA1NO1QIS4NZv3yEsawen7LaRNOHlKxDMacYl9TOXM+lufslV39YeIiW 6VsCMeOpwDPawb8786wmTHLX0QJ/t1/0aOQuz6zJCw5zG7Xyz8Hh4Ot35mVBUaFC0Qmw 7d3udyLlhUF0OwaE9Bvq6FruRKy1+Vysi8WAk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; b=WHne718H5t1+vIsf6XX4YMcDQB7JN6CNd+uHzY7VTg3NbWrqA/mJub4xFlki19OCri Y3be3HS7WH2zb0pNgPCCWrgqDjNKAQZPDtokIa/GBEc/J0y0KhyYlS1xrPfFoiQeyK0u 9oMmLxXtWJ7w6bJe00grUEVcVRX7AL3yjIMEg= Received: by 10.43.64.196 with SMTP id xj4mr3325343icb.51.1301583728225; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:02:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.174.207 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:01:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4D94959F.3090507@FreeBSD.org> References: <20110325101111.GA36840__48943.3474642739$1301049771$gmane$org@azathoth.lan> <4D90C8EA.2000901@freebsd.org> <4D9218DF.8060305@freebsd.org> <4D94959F.3090507@FreeBSD.org> From: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:01:46 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: gcGIbfIbTWsMBatREhKoBMHcHJQ Message-ID: To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, Julien Laffaye Subject: Re: [ECFT] pkgng 0.1-alpha1: a replacement for pkg_install X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:02:09 -0000 2011/3/31 Andriy Gapon : > on 29/03/2011 23:29 Baptiste Daroussin said the following: >> ok let's try to say it simpler :) the main goal is to keep it simple >> for now, simple and rock solid, so that we can replace pkg_install and >> do some cleanup in the ports tree, add the "must have" features while >> doing that. And only when we will be ready for that and that portmgr >> have decided that it is mature enough to replace pkg_install, only >> after that we will start improving with new features and new changes. >> >> I thinks changing the package name scheme is not a "must have" >> feature, it for sure is and intresting feature, but what about pushing >> to after the first stable release? managing architecture as we plan to >> do it is enough imho. > > Oh, yes, I realize all this and totally agree with it. > Given how huge and how visible our ports and packages systems are, it's better to > be slow and cautious. > All the ideas that I suggested were more for the "next step" than for now. > And noted in my personnal TODO list :) > Thank you for the work! > -- > Andriy Gapon > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 15:26:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABCC81065670 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:26:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from kabab.cs.huji.ac.il (kabab.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.84]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60FAA8FC13 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:26:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by kabab.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1Q5JE8-000LYb-6J for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:52:00 +0200 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa0" Content-ID: <24338.1301583120.0@pampa.cs.huji.ac.il> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:52:00 +0200 From: Daniel Braniss Message-ID: Subject: mountd stuck in ZFS code. (fwd) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:26:25 -0000 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <24338.1301583120.1@pampa.cs.huji.ac.il> re-posting here to see if I'm more successful: ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-ID: <24338.1301583120.2@pampa.cs.huji.ac.il> Content-Description: forwarded message Return-path: Received: from mx2.freebsd.org ([69.147.83.53]) by cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1Q4pgs-000Cvj-8p for danny@cs.huji.ac.il; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:19:42 +0200 Received: from hub.freebsd.org (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0C720528C; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:19:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5AB1065767; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:18:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org) Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C38E106564A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:18:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from kabab.cs.huji.ac.il (kabab.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.16.84]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3FF8FC0A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:18:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pampa.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.32]) by kabab.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1Q4pfy-000Ny3-IW for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:18:46 +0200 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.7.2 01/07/2005 with nmh-1.2 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:18:46 +0200 From: Daniel Braniss Message-ID: Subject: mountd stuck in ZFS code. X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-SA-Score: -0.1 X-Authentication-Warning: Sender is not authenticated I have been running the experimental nfs/mount for some time now, and it mostly works, except with this particular case, where the mountd just gets stuck: mountd 11762 [dp->dp_config_rwlock] 8.93r 0.00u 0.00s 0% 1320k and stops respondig. I can't reproduce it at will, but it happens quiet often. The host in question is an nfs/zfs server, runing 8-stable and zfs ZFS pool version 15 ZFS filesystem version 4 cheers, danny _______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 20:40:12 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D917D106566B; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:40:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719888FC18; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:40:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ywf9 with SMTP id 9so1323775ywf.13 for ; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:40:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition :in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=FeSSJ7ZwL3HQDX6cocSevhL77wfHKTXmqXhEz4wQM7k=; b=ilNKKdrBWjjz7cTKb8Ef6T4UbWyAX8TCtkwn45mgZ9ks8Lpa81Yr0NnAGg9JVamtd4 iHjSHxhY4N9TZ3SinUFzcgThk5+PbP7w+GDKIdrL30d8pp3ZNT4nOXJ0I9dSsW6Ho3sT pL7l6uDYs9RhUsP05H+gXOw8WFEYtOoOccyiA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=ls4J2mwINCWVkacK6z8Z4DwDKy67wDdkwAn8Eqh2nl+0MtIjNJxqedSYtPn/iTrz24 rqvGS6ZpDpDhVj13MytkE1Q5w3m1YuvPcaaiQUlQUYnqhFruRNGdaOZHwBZiQ12ENSyd jo5/Pmc5F0C4GW7HStfD/DNg7hb7AWGH1LGOo= Received: by 10.150.242.2 with SMTP id p2mr3468295ybh.241.1301604011813; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DataIX.net ([99.19.44.236]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 42sm472618yhl.68.2011.03.31.13.40.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Sender: "J. Hellenthal" Received: from DataIX.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by DataIX.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p2VKe6tv035869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:40:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhell@DataIX.net) Received: (from jhell@localhost) by DataIX.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p2VKe5U5035868; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:40:05 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhell) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:40:05 -0400 From: jhell To: Alexander Best Message-ID: <20110331204005.GA33239@disbatch.dataix.local> References: <20110325002115.GA323@freebsd.org> <20110325041905.00006711@unknown> <20110325101304.GA56260@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="azLHFNyN32YCQGCU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20110325101304.GA56260@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Bruce Cran , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Switching to [KMGTPE]i prefixes? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:40:13 -0000 --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:13:04AM +0000, Alexander Best wrote: > On Fri Mar 25 11, Bruce Cran wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 00:21:15 +0000 > > Alexander Best wrote: > >=20 > > > i hacked up humanized_number(3) a bit in order to produce the > > > following df(1) output: > > > [...] > > > 4.2Gi 4.2Gi 0B 100% 0 0 100% /media/dvd > >=20 > > I don't know if it's correct, but Snow Leopard uses "Bi" for bytes. >=20 > hmmm...i'm wondering why they do that. there's no reason for that, because > 1 bytes is 8 bit no matter if you use a power of one or a power of ten. >=20 Given the output above it would only be safe to assume that you are refering to a BLOCKSIZE=3DK when denoting size as "Gi". It would be more proper if this was to denote the size as "GiB" so the end result can be determined whether or not it is really "Gib". "[X]i" in it self does not signify the size of the data by which the result was calculated but only that the result has been calculated by 1024^N and seems to have been a mislead representation by other OS's. So whether were using BLOCKSIZE of "b B K M G T P..." can we adjust this so it displays the increment correctly please ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte [...] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Quantities_of_bits http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28data%29 --=20 Regards, J. Hellenthal (0x89D8547E) JJH48-ARIN --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (FreeBSD) Comment: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x89D8547E iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNlOakAAoJEJBXh4mJ2FR+WcMH/103iGvV/3spi4y+4DtkprWO keXgpZah2FlF4oL3aX7QnwVRH7WpfrJ5kXTw2ERW2j4jIApM4KQDY3QbYKcLtZ0Z iQJj2kJe4i7csGzfZ2037c8jZH+DKpP1vOHP4xb/qD4arpApgOXvow8Zlu7mhYxB /REawq8b+BHDkzTnkGPSHY/NWbeUNmVSeaopxMG628KJYbuGyFuAwbeOX5N0dlIC leLNziK8swI9Q0QCwv+z/s+9JvZT2oY8vD8PKLabu7r6aBrApBVIEQaiwOLNXrO2 rGsyTjhbmgky3LI0WwnpORSXNk551PzlmF8pvYBq6HG4fmnB2P5TEHVnPGFIep0= =FebK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 31 21:03:49 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id C955D1065672; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:03:49 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:03:49 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110331210349.GA4112@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: issue with devstat_buildmatch(3) and certain strings X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:03:49 -0000 hi there, devstat_buildmatch(3) crashes with certain strings. you can test this by doing one of: iostat -t "," iostat -t ",," iostat -t "da," iostat -t ",da," iostat -t ",da" iostat -t "da,scsi," iostat -t ",da,scsi" iostat -t "da,,scsi" i've tried, but wasn't able to fix this properly. cheers. alex -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 08:33:00 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B8B6106566B for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:33:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from s.seira@cdmon.com) Received: from correo.cdmon.com (correo.cdmon.com [212.36.82.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042B48FC19 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:32:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from genocida (localhost.cdmon.com [127.0.0.1]) by correo.cdmon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A904131167 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:15:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from antispam (localhost.cdmon.com [127.0.0.1]) by correo.cdmon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6139131161 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:15:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.30] (155.Red-88-2-251.staticIP.rima-tde.net [88.2.251.155]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by correo.cdmon.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6911713110A for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:15:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4D958999.30207@cdmon.com> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:15:21 +0200 From: Sergi Seira User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100515 Lightning/1.0b1 Icedove/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: background fsck high load on 8.1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 08:33:00 -0000 Hello, we've experienced that background fsck on 8.1 degrades server performance on a higher degree than in previous fbsd versions (6.3, 7.3; amd64). We've noticed it after upgrading - same hardware - to a 8.1-RELEASE. Now, performance of other services (i.e. apache, mysql) during a background fsck falls miserably. Is there any way to calm fsck down?, nice(1)?, some sysctl? We have also gmirror, but we prevent to rebuild it if there is a fsck running in background. Thanks for your help, regards, Sergi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 11:49:40 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id 070CC1065677; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:49:40 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:49:40 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: Sergey Kandaurov Message-ID: <20110401114940.GA15680@freebsd.org> References: <20110331210349.GA4112@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: issue with devstat_buildmatch(3) and certain strings X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 11:49:40 -0000 On Fri Apr 1 11, Sergey Kandaurov wrote: > On 1 April 2011 01:03, Alexander Best wrote: > > hi there, > > > > devstat_buildmatch(3) crashes with certain strings. you can test this by > > doing one of: > > > > iostat -t "," > > iostat -t ",," > > iostat -t "da," > > iostat -t ",da," > > iostat -t ",da" > > iostat -t "da,scsi," > > iostat -t ",da,scsi" > > iostat -t "da,,scsi" > > [Someone told me, -hackers isn't appropriate for patches, Cc: -current.] > > The problem is devstat(3) increments num_args regardless if strsep > returned NULL. > I think that should work (all your tests pass): > > Index: lib/libdevstat/devstat.c > =================================================================== > --- lib/libdevstat/devstat.c (revision 220102) > +++ lib/libdevstat/devstat.c (working copy) > @@ -1014,11 +1014,12 @@ > * Break the (comma delimited) input string out into separate strings. > */ > for (tempstr = tstr, num_args = 0; > - (*tempstr = strsep(&match_str, ",")) != NULL && (num_args < 5); > - num_args++) > - if (**tempstr != '\0') > + (*tempstr = strsep(&match_str, ",")) != NULL && (num_args < 5); ) ^^ extra space? > + if (**tempstr != '\0') { > + num_args++; > if (++tempstr >= &tstr[5]) > break; > + } > > /* The user gave us too many type arguments */ > if (num_args > 3) { > > Please review, and I will commit the patch. looking good. thanks. :) > > -- > wbr, > pluknet -- a13x From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 12:05:15 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B5C3106564A for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:05:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pluknet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f182.google.com (mail-qy0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A978FC16 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:05:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so2660226qyk.13 for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 05:05:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Zdz/A5tRHX+jUet4WtHoC/QZP17onbK49A7tRfbcXes=; b=hUJKpWoa/qa/S3quSMrOUeuJbQSOsXVE8kSSU0pMcXnK83QyMxRyuqvmkjrF5W7MTu 0Yxlnwnst5jq9R9JrQSH5pQL2fzadrPBmqebplNnQaSuIYshYyFPiiHb2arP+ctpBTfV Vrt5vOa6PQAu1aXz+7qTk/y0E9G8gLileHdlo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=DP5RqZc4JejklIHhhxYCVx5nMBDPq4cQf20UVzhrSTx8EGqwDqeFOn2kBhdvpqPvIK yuoIoBkAWUtD4PD2gu8OKC9d0FakpqpOZ4YI+d8+BSHZzJOFTHLJzeL2MXW6lS6e9TH8 pn+8DRlsdKoTy6IsG9MW+tDFjYuURZE4q+McE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.99.80 with SMTP id t16mr3307687qcn.73.1301658024721; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 04:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: pluknet@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.67.68 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:40:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20110331210349.GA4112@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:40:24 +0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: RI45qhEjYXQ7fXIO1-OAnDIMGto Message-ID: From: Sergey Kandaurov To: Alexander Best Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: issue with devstat_buildmatch(3) and certain strings X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 12:05:15 -0000 On 1 April 2011 15:37, Sergey Kandaurov wrote: > On 1 April 2011 01:03, Alexander Best wrote: >> hi there, >> >> devstat_buildmatch(3) crashes with certain strings. you can test this by >> doing one of: >> >> iostat -t "," >> iostat -t ",," >> iostat -t "da," >> iostat -t ",da," >> iostat -t ",da" >> iostat -t "da,scsi," >> iostat -t ",da,scsi" >> iostat -t "da,,scsi" > > [Someone told me, -hackers isn't appropriate for patches, Cc: -current.] > > The problem is devstat(3) increments num_args regardless if strsep > returned NULL. > I think that should work (all your tests pass): > > Index: lib/libdevstat/devstat.c > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > --- lib/libdevstat/devstat.c =A0 =A0(revision 220102) > +++ lib/libdevstat/devstat.c =A0 =A0(working copy) > @@ -1014,11 +1014,12 @@ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 * Break the (comma delimited) input string out into separ= ate strings. > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 */ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0for (tempstr =3D tstr, num_args =A0=3D 0; > - =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(*tempstr =3D strsep(&match_str, ",")) !=3D NULL= && (num_args < 5); > - =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0num_args++) > - =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 if (**tempstr !=3D '\0') > + =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0(*tempstr =3D strsep(&match_str, ",")) !=3D NULL= && (num_args < 5); ) > + =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 if (**tempstr !=3D '\0') { > + =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 num_args++; > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0if (++tempstr >=3D &tstr[5= ]) ^^^^ BTW, this game with pointers might prevent devstat(3) from work on big-endian. > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0break; > + =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 } > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0/* The user gave us too many type arguments */ > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0if (num_args > 3) { > > Please review, and I will commit the patch. --=20 wbr, pluknet From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 12:07:46 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B29A106564A for ; 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Fri, 01 Apr 2011 04:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Sender: pluknet@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.67.68 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:37:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110331210349.GA4112@freebsd.org> References: <20110331210349.GA4112@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:37:31 +0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Xr8C6kA7c3PrgaaiBobnJ1Hvago Message-ID: From: Sergey Kandaurov To: Alexander Best Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: issue with devstat_buildmatch(3) and certain strings X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 12:07:46 -0000 On 1 April 2011 01:03, Alexander Best wrote: > hi there, > > devstat_buildmatch(3) crashes with certain strings. you can test this by > doing one of: > > iostat -t "," > iostat -t ",," > iostat -t "da," > iostat -t ",da," > iostat -t ",da" > iostat -t "da,scsi," > iostat -t ",da,scsi" > iostat -t "da,,scsi" [Someone told me, -hackers isn't appropriate for patches, Cc: -current.] The problem is devstat(3) increments num_args regardless if strsep returned NULL. I think that should work (all your tests pass): Index: lib/libdevstat/devstat.c =================================================================== --- lib/libdevstat/devstat.c (revision 220102) +++ lib/libdevstat/devstat.c (working copy) @@ -1014,11 +1014,12 @@ * Break the (comma delimited) input string out into separate strings. */ for (tempstr = tstr, num_args = 0; - (*tempstr = strsep(&match_str, ",")) != NULL && (num_args < 5); - num_args++) - if (**tempstr != '\0') + (*tempstr = strsep(&match_str, ",")) != NULL && (num_args < 5); ) + if (**tempstr != '\0') { + num_args++; if (++tempstr >= &tstr[5]) break; + } /* The user gave us too many type arguments */ if (num_args > 3) { Please review, and I will commit the patch. -- wbr, pluknet From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 14:29:58 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D448E106564A; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:29:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE198FC08; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:29:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id RAA26851; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 17:29:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 17:29:54 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110309 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Arch , FreeBSD Hackers X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 14:29:58 -0000 I am looking for error codes that would unambiguously signal that a disk drive has readonly or write-protected media and that disk drive has no media at the moment. I foresee these error codes being used mostly between disk peripheral drivers and filesystem drivers. I will appreciate your suggestions. P.S. I see that Linux uses EROFS and ENOMEDIUM for these purposes. I am not sure about EROFS in this role. And we don't have ENOMEDIUM (nor EMEDIUMTYPE). -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 14:58:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A6E81065672; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:58:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 383018FC14; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:58:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p31EpPiD040268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:51:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:51:25 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> To: Andriy Gapon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (harmony.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.6]); Fri, 01 Apr 2011 08:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Arch Subject: Re: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 14:58:33 -0000 On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >=20 > I am looking for error codes that would unambiguously signal that a = disk drive has > readonly or write-protected media and that disk drive has no media at = the moment. > I foresee these error codes being used mostly between disk peripheral = drivers and > filesystem drivers. >=20 > I will appreciate your suggestions. >=20 > P.S. > I see that Linux uses EROFS and ENOMEDIUM for these purposes. > I am not sure about EROFS in this role. > And we don't have ENOMEDIUM (nor EMEDIUMTYPE). Maybe we could add ENOMEDIA for that (spelled however Linux spells it) = after EDAVE. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 14:58:56 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A132106566B; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:58:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E0E8FC08; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:58:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 63.imp.bsdimp.com (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p31EoAVo040179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:50:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:50:11 -0600 Message-Id: <3AB0D20A-D81D-49EC-BA77-83EACC308796@bsdimp.com> References: <20110331210349.GA4112@freebsd.org> To: Sergey Kandaurov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (harmony.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.6]); Fri, 01 Apr 2011 08:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Alexander Best , FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: issue with devstat_buildmatch(3) and certain strings X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 14:58:56 -0000 On Apr 1, 2011, at 5:40 AM, Sergey Kandaurov wrote: >> if (++tempstr >= &tstr[5]) > ^^^^ > BTW, > this game with pointers might prevent devstat(3) from work on big-endian. I'm very curious about your reasoning here. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 15:07:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD171065686; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:07:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from exprod7og102.obsmtp.com (exprod7og102.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.157]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF498FC0C; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:07:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob102.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTZXqGdJ9fi/n6H9aB7mzpLFz415CXOGV@postini.com; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 08:07:10 PDT Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:04:06 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:05:40 -0400 From: Andrew Duane To: Warner Losh , Andriy Gapon Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:04:38 -0400 Thread-Topic: looking for error codes Thread-Index: AcvwfWvgdu2RiXRbQqKNabRJHzfR4wAALLZh Message-ID: References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Arch Subject: RE: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:07:11 -0000 AFAIK, FreeBSD does not really detect read-only media. This was something I= had to add as a small project here at work, and was considering cleaning u= p to try to get into CURRENT. If there's a real need for it, I could speed = that up. -- Andrew Duane Juniper Networks 978-589-0551 10 Technology Park Dr aduane@juniper.net Westford, MA 01886-3418 ________________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]= On Behalf Of Warner Losh [imp@bsdimp.com] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 10:51 AM To: Andriy Gapon Cc: FreeBSD Hackers; FreeBSD Arch Subject: Re: looking for error codes On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > I am looking for error codes that would unambiguously signal that a disk = drive has > readonly or write-protected media and that disk drive has no media at the= moment. > I foresee these error codes being used mostly between disk peripheral dri= vers and > filesystem drivers. > > I will appreciate your suggestions. > > P.S. > I see that Linux uses EROFS and ENOMEDIUM for these purposes. > I am not sure about EROFS in this role. > And we don't have ENOMEDIUM (nor EMEDIUMTYPE). Maybe we could add ENOMEDIA for that (spelled however Linux spells it) afte= r EDAVE. Warner _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 13:41:38 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBFA1065672 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:41:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dudinskyj@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F638FC13 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:41:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so1629099gwb.13 for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 06:41:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=qwy5ibBqncfgE995F/Zy/ZmPE3VYPH4S9HcldcTJ4yI=; b=HqhfSyFY5Ao35wCfItw6PywEOBlp66HPkk+4iPD/pmfwfpEygTCLlWYzTLgZB0hfRx f3M79rPv4G/l5On1D/DD5cqQ6CUqGdER1Y29Pzvn7P3hzLaYZDEXJB1reQSdQOwnFk4N SKcbJgeg2I0cu2yZ4bBCUmLxj1P2vcpEyVXNc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=cKTethpqN4tTmoppX6I3PLC/HR0lZ4LX9pFknskeuADVvuy4VeC3r6Ra905u8pvVxV sNE3RQfASczvSqord5Rc1SmPtF+8uFRB45xIZ5uJ0V8lW4xn1B84E0YmFguRGPwIou43 GL0PKHFXx0I3BsGpIYERBN8r7LkxiP1Oxp0lI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.75.6 with SMTP id x6mr3884590yba.217.1301665297064; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 06:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.12.10 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 06:41:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <000001cbea59$eb1c4b00$c154e100$@com> References: <000001cbea59$eb1c4b00$c154e100$@com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:41:37 +0300 Message-ID: From: Oleksandr Dudinskyi To: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:18:41 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: GSoC X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 13:41:38 -0000 I should like more specifically disclose my plan of action. One of the main tasks is find the places where registered errors, subsequently error analysis (their type) and separation errors related to disk and modifying the output format. There are different types of errors such as soft, hard, transport, device not ready, recoverable and other. Currently, presence the problem of reports and the majority error logs built as an individual files. Necessary changes in the kernel, which provide the emergence a database that processes information from several sources. The current kernel can't report what specific operations were errors, this further compounds the consistency problem. Reports of drivers errors requires a change. Systematization format recording of errors also is a priority,that we get and where the error occurred. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 15:19:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A91A106566C; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:19:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8608FC13; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:19:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id SAA27456; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 18:18:55 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 18:18:54 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD amd64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110309 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Duane References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org>, In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Arch Subject: Re: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:19:03 -0000 on 01/04/2011 18:04 Andrew Duane said the following: > AFAIK, FreeBSD does not really detect read-only media. This was something I had to add as a small project here at work, and was considering cleaning up to try to get into CURRENT. If there's a real need for it, I could speed that up. > Yes, that's exactly the problem that I am looking at. So if you have anything to share it will be greatly appreciated at least by me. But I think many more people could benefit from it (e.g. those having SD/SDHC/etc cards). Thanks! > ________________________________________ > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Warner Losh [imp@bsdimp.com] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 10:51 AM > To: Andriy Gapon > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers; FreeBSD Arch > Subject: Re: looking for error codes > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> >> I am looking for error codes that would unambiguously signal that a disk drive has >> readonly or write-protected media and that disk drive has no media at the moment. >> I foresee these error codes being used mostly between disk peripheral drivers and >> filesystem drivers. >> >> I will appreciate your suggestions. >> >> P.S. >> I see that Linux uses EROFS and ENOMEDIUM for these purposes. >> I am not sure about EROFS in this role. >> And we don't have ENOMEDIUM (nor EMEDIUMTYPE). > > Maybe we could add ENOMEDIA for that (spelled however Linux spells it) after EDAVE. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 15:39:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC1B106564A; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:39:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from exprod7og120.obsmtp.com (exprod7og120.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.18]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBA838FC13; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:39:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob120.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTZXxt7W9xLalW4+DGQycLcWDhn2v8aFT@postini.com; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 08:39:38 PDT Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:37:00 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:38:34 -0400 From: Andrew Duane To: Andriy Gapon Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:35:50 -0400 Thread-Topic: looking for error codes Thread-Index: AcvwgCAChEFAfkU1TQqYtmTB61u6+AAAlrTk Message-ID: References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org>, , <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Arch Subject: RE: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:39:39 -0000 My work is absolutely NOT in any shape at all to even consider, it's a real= ly tailored point solution to a specific platform issue. I've been working = with another engineer to expand it and make it more generic, but that effor= t is stalled at the moment. My plan was to add something like an ioctl to a device that would query it = for read/write status, and percolate that up through the geom layer to capt= ure it for mount requests. The correct place to stop it is at mount time. E= ven mounting a read-only device as read-write will eventually panic the sys= tem as super-block flag updates will not be able to complete. Once that is = done, any attempt to open a file for writing fails. -- Andrew Duane Juniper Networks 978-589-0551 10 Technology Park Dr aduane@juniper.net Westford, MA 01886-3418 ________________________________________ From: Andriy Gapon [avg@FreeBSD.org] Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:18 AM To: Andrew Duane Cc: Warner Losh; FreeBSD Hackers; FreeBSD Arch Subject: Re: looking for error codes on 01/04/2011 18:04 Andrew Duane said the following: > AFAIK, FreeBSD does not really detect read-only media. This was something= I had to add as a small project here at work, and was considering cleaning= up to try to get into CURRENT. If there's a real need for it, I could spee= d that up. > Yes, that's exactly the problem that I am looking at. So if you have anything to share it will be greatly appreciated at least by= me. But I think many more people could benefit from it (e.g. those having SD/SD= HC/etc cards). Thanks! > ________________________________________ > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.or= g] On Behalf Of Warner Losh [imp@bsdimp.com] > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 10:51 AM > To: Andriy Gapon > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers; FreeBSD Arch > Subject: Re: looking for error codes > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> >> I am looking for error codes that would unambiguously signal that a disk= drive has >> readonly or write-protected media and that disk drive has no media at th= e moment. >> I foresee these error codes being used mostly between disk peripheral dr= ivers and >> filesystem drivers. >> >> I will appreciate your suggestions. >> >> P.S. >> I see that Linux uses EROFS and ENOMEDIUM for these purposes. >> I am not sure about EROFS in this role. >> And we don't have ENOMEDIUM (nor EMEDIUMTYPE). > > Maybe we could add ENOMEDIA for that (spelled however Linux spells it) af= ter EDAVE. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 16:13:28 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F04B106566B; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:13:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pluknet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f182.google.com (mail-qy0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA5B38FC1B; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:13:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27so2848801qyk.13 for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:13:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CoiCaIkotaFwg0wZJn6x81lFimHxtfoP+ucP7lKfW4A=; b=PC9j63fsSXwCOZyRA47xmiBKZROMefV/UHO4E4Lj85J7j0f2aw7hompXmVQhhrRAb2 4Y6sMAr6SXVxWE0dn3WisQiHsC7cKsm60H3ZOFANhPLvYthXgLpbR+GWmrgEmyI6yKdR rZ0GAFDsVVL7OyCjSwA6xb35JL0JAKXa1DbEA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=Gg4vcXqIrs8qLMLLKg+/DiJ5trP6YAewUsy09K7QC+9NxmwsfbKS6mlolpMHORZoSs 64dtBhpjpx+UFiGMtJxe6zDiCV699HRmMkyO2wA84vdyBYsI6WrEV/SxeF35Q+/1TEnX THpkQdqQYJwDnHtXJSQwVlBfJjhZanP2Lpsz4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.106.34 with SMTP id v34mr3627328qco.111.1301674406901; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Sender: pluknet@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.67.68 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:13:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3AB0D20A-D81D-49EC-BA77-83EACC308796@bsdimp.com> References: <20110331210349.GA4112@freebsd.org> <3AB0D20A-D81D-49EC-BA77-83EACC308796@bsdimp.com> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 20:13:26 +0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -jEue5LAPjdNpZe12e5p9CWgz2k Message-ID: From: Sergey Kandaurov To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Alexander Best , FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: issue with devstat_buildmatch(3) and certain strings X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:13:28 -0000 On 1 April 2011 18:50, Warner Losh wrote: > On Apr 1, 2011, at 5:40 AM, Sergey Kandaurov wrote: >> >> =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 if (++tempstr >=3D &tstr[= 5]) >> >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0^^^^ >> BTW, >> this game with pointers might prevent devstat(3) from work on big-endian= . > > I'm very curious about your reasoning here. > Warner I meant the above comparison of pointers might not work (I'm not sure, as I have no big-endian to test). Look: # iostat -t da,scsi,pass tempstr=3D0x7fffffffcfa0, &tstr[5]=3D0x7fffffffcfc8 tempstr=3D0x7fffffffcfa8, &tstr[5]=3D0x7fffffffcfc8 tempstr=3D0x7fffffffcfb0, &tstr[5]=3D0x7fffffffcfc8 D'oh.. endianness doesn't matter with arrays *blush (Unless that's some system with decreasing memory addressing. Ok, nevermind.) --=20 wbr, pluknet From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 16:55:42 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541041065670 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:55:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F9D8FC08 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:55:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qwc9 with SMTP id 9so2658064qwc.13 for ; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:55:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=N00NaMS2DTvJJ67YayaYKNHD5pXVNs0q43d+duo9Z4Y=; b=V6UimiUmIOOs+eszdVVf4fRiul6zBybsSGAwOlGQQ92c9Wa2G/FEqAInW/AX9vYOAf +Z1zlpALY+/g3P7bGUqfFAbP6tW6kzSMvrYyexKiltStJV1uC835HnRsXU/kKqDCA/w3 eV7o51JtJPkxwqRpl/fMSMAttQ35J+1KNG9bQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=in8jepGaAGEk7d8ks584O8NVEmbdhfhTclYPnYX7+55lqmaCEceNNDpE3S+WGEa7HI kc2cey9gizEGAWts4pkiPfChqE6E4ewGEfv9VacsLMVROpaG0fuaz25RGDzBc6DLXu3o u4/tJRAp33Li4EGp4E16yWxIufTqC82WF2n6M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.9.197 with SMTP id m5mr3730052qam.367.1301676940854; Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.67.21 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:55:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:55:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Arch Subject: Re: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:55:42 -0000 On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 01/04/2011 18:04 Andrew Duane said the following: > > AFAIK, FreeBSD does not really detect read-only media. This was something > I had to add as a small project here at work, and was considering cleaning > up to try to get into CURRENT. If there's a real need for it, I could speed > that up. > > > > Yes, that's exactly the problem that I am looking at. > So if you have anything to share it will be greatly appreciated at least by > me. > But I think many more people could benefit from it (e.g. those having > SD/SDHC/etc > cards). > Thanks! > > > ________________________________________ > > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [ > owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Warner Losh [ > imp@bsdimp.com] > > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 10:51 AM > > To: Andriy Gapon > > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers; FreeBSD Arch > > Subject: Re: looking for error codes > > > > On Apr 1, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > > >> > >> I am looking for error codes that would unambiguously signal that a disk > drive has > >> readonly or write-protected media and that disk drive has no media at > the moment. > >> I foresee these error codes being used mostly between disk peripheral > drivers and > >> filesystem drivers. > >> > >> I will appreciate your suggestions. > >> > >> P.S. > >> I see that Linux uses EROFS and ENOMEDIUM for these purposes. > >> I am not sure about EROFS in this role. > >> And we don't have ENOMEDIUM (nor EMEDIUMTYPE). > > > > Maybe we could add ENOMEDIA for that (spelled however Linux spells it) > after EDAVE. > > -- > Andriy Gapon > For a long time I am thinking to obtain a physically ( not only software ) based FreeBSD edition by re-arranging some parts of it , but I do not know how to do it . Such an approach requires separation of FreeBSD into two parts : Read-Only parts and modifiable parts . The core software will be in the read-only part and data files will be in modifiable parts . This will require a new directory structure and partition scheme . At that point , I want to mention my a previously applied approach to such a problem . During 1990 years I was managing computer laboratories of a university department having *DOS systems . Maintenance of software on these computers was impossible due to malicious software . In those days , there were MFM hard disks : Their controllers were separate from their disks as add-on cards , and its cables have two lines among others : One is READ from disk , another WRITE to disk . I have attached rocker switches to WRITE lines of the controller cables . After installations of software , I was disconnecting WRITE line rocker switch and supply the computer for usage . The students were required to boot the computer to eliminate possibility of malicious software invasion of the memory before beginning to study and to use diskettes for data read-write . The main usage was to connect to the main frame of the university . After application of the above protection scheme , the students and others were able to use the computers safely and continuously without any interruption or harm due to malicious software . Data storage into the local personal computers were not important because of usability of main frame of the university . After some years , MFM hard disks abandoned in favor of IDE ( Integrated Drive Electronics ) hard disks by moving controller to hard disk and eliminating use of add-on cards with a very unfortunate design decision as ( a write protect mechanism by a switch on the hard disks are not implemented ) . With respect to my knowledge , no one of the operating systems has a facility to separate read-only and modifiable parts . This feature is making operating systems a very vulnerable targets for wicked persons for malicious attacks . Software protections are not able to prevent this problem because it is impossible to design an error-free software system , especially a very complex system such as an operating system . Up to a few months before , I could not be able to obtain a physical security policy when I accidentally study SDHC cards . Reason of my study was a wish to obtain a more cheaper medium for my frequent operating system installations on USB sticks because USB sticks are much more expensive from hard disks with respective to per giga byte cost . SDHC cards have WRITE-PROTECT mechanism which may be used to protect an operating system physically , IF we can obtain an operating system divisible into two parts as read-only ( software and configuration files , user definitions , etc. ) and modifiable ( data files ) . There are Live DVD/CD operating systems but I do not know that any one of them has a facility to allow to use an external file system usage for continuous usability . I have learned the presence of Puppy Linux from mails : http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20and%20Getting%20Started.htm The Puppy Linux has a WONDERFUL Live CD facility : It uses a ram disk during its working . At the end of the session , when a shutdown is requested it is asking to user whether the session will be saved or not . If the Puppy Linux is recorded onto a DVD and writing to DVD is NOT closed , it is possible to burn session data incrementally onto DVD up to a closing of writing . In that way , it is possible to customize working of the Live DVD/CD incrementally . By using such a facility , it is possible to rearrange a physically secure operating system : (1) Install the operating system . Boot it and set its parameters . Write those parameters to its configuration files and close it . Use a DVD-ROM ( not DVD Re-Write ) drive for absolute protection . If speed is important and there is no DVD-ROM , use a SDHC card : (2) Protect it by its write protect switch in SDHC cards after installation and setting parameters . For subsequent usages , use other external drives for data processing ( read - write ) only without any possibility of loading any executable from them . When it is necessary to perform a secure operation , just boot the computer to clean the possible memory invasion of malicious software . For the upgrades : Use a sterile computer ( as not connected to external sources to prevent from possible pollution ) , prepare an upgraded version , write-protect it , insert it into production computer which is exposed to external world by replacing the older version part. By separating directories into distinct drives , it is possible to upgrade only a required part as write protected : .../user_definitions : Important for installations which have a large number of users such as schools , and companies with a large number of employees or users of the computer ( server ) . .../packages : .../configurations : .../operating_system : .../boot_manager : The following parts may be assigned to modifiable drives : /home /var /tmp /swap and possible others . As a summary : It is necessary to have - A new partition structure with ability to assigning parts to distinct drives referenced by names , - Distinction between read-only and modifiable parts where they are assignable to physically different drives referenced by names , ( not by physically encoded drive numbers with respect to attached slot of the computer ) - and other related modifications not mentioned here or not recognized at present by me . I am sorry to present an off-topic subject into this thread , but to obtain such a facility , it is necessary to be able to detect structure of drives and use that structure appropriately . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 1 21:30:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6744106566C for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 21:30:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lgj@usenix.org) Received: from lonestar.usenix.org (lonestar.usenix.org [131.106.3.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB318FC0C for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 21:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from negroni.usenix.org (negroni.usenix.org [131.106.3.145]) (authenticated bits=0) by lonestar.usenix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id p31LTb7f017948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:30:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lionel Garth Jones Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:30:17 -0700 Message-Id: <861FFFDE-F1C8-45C1-B5FC-956C7782770C@usenix.org> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-DCC-USENIX-Metrics: lonestar; whitelist X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.7 required=6.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, FH_DATE_PAST_20XX autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on lonestar X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 22:00:37 +0000 Subject: TaPP '11 Submission Deadline Approaching X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 21:30:21 -0000 We're writing to remind you that the submission deadline for the 3rd Workshop on the Theory and Practice of Provenance (TaPP '11) is quickly approaching. Please submit all work by April 8, 2011, at 11:59 p.m. PDT. More information and submission guidelines are available at http://www.usenix.org/tapp11/cfpb TaPP '11 will bring together researchers and practitioners doing innovative work in the area of provenance. With the deluge of digital data we are currently experiencing, it has become increasingly important to capture and understand the origins and derivation of data--its provenance. Provenance provides important documentation that is an essential part of the quality of data, and it is essential to the trust we put in, for example, the data we find on the Web and the data that is derived from scientific experiments. The workshop may cover any topic related to theoretical or practical aspects of provenance, including but not limited to: provenance in databases, work flows, programming languages, security, software engineering, or systems; provenance on the Web; or real-world applications of or requirements for provenance. The Program Committee is determined to make TaPP '11 a real workshop at which new ideas are discussed and developed and where the participants can learn how other subjects make use of provenance. While the workshop will have online proceedings, the Committee does not want the workshop to become another "mini-conference" that has nothing but paper presentations. The Committee is eager to receive short papers and vision papers describing challenges for provenance research, brief descriptions of new applications, proposals for mini-tutorials, pie-in-the sky research ideas, and anything that will create a successful workshop. While brief and readable descriptions of research are encouraged, recycled conference submissions are strongly discouraged. TaPP '11 will take place June 20-22, 2011, in Heraklion, Crete, Greece, the week after the meeting of ACM SIGMOD in Athens. We look forward to receiving your submissions! Sincerely, Peter Buneman, University of Edinburgh Juliana Freire, University of Utah TaPP '11 Program Co-Chairs tapp11chairs@usenix.org ------------------------------------------------------------------ TaPP '11 Call for Contributions 3rd Workshop on the Theory and Practice of Provenance (TaPP '11) June 20-22, 2011, Heraklion, Crete, Greece http://www.usenix.org/tapp11/cfpb Submission deadline: April 8, 2011, 11:59 p.m. PDT ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 08:00:34 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8AA1065678; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 08:00:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (agora.rdrop.com [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C7418FC1C; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 08:00:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id p3280XYW036537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 2 Apr 2011 01:00:33 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.9/Submit) with UUCP id p3280X74036536; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 01:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fbsd61 by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA14774; Fri, 1 Apr 11 23:50:49 PST Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 00:50:29 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com Message-Id: <4d96d545.e/wWTIUATgk2CGjt%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, avg@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 08:00:34 -0000 Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > For a long time I am thinking to obtain a physically ( not only > software ) based [read-only] FreeBSD edition by re-arranging some > parts of it , but I do not know how to do it ... > After some years , MFM hard disks abandoned in favor of IDE > ( Integrated Drive Electronics ) hard disks by moving controller > to hard disk and eliminating use of add-on cards with a very > unfortunate design decision as ( a write protect mechanism by > a switch on the hard disks are not implemented ) . At least some IDE drives have write-protect jumpers, which could presumably be replaced with connections to switches. > With respect to my knowledge , no one of the operating systems > has a facility to separate read-only and modifiable parts ... SunOS 4 had a partial solution to this, by rearranging the FS layout so that /usr could be mounted read-only (and often, from a server -- IIRC a single /usr could be shared among multiple diskless clients). They used quite a few symlinks so that things could be found in their accustomed places although actually located elsewhere. The scheme was fairly well described in the SunOS 4 manual set; granted _finding_ a SunOS 4 manual set these days may be a challenge :) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 09:56:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A55C106566C; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 09:56:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@psconsult.nl) Received: from mx1.psconsult.nl (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:30f:e0::5059:ee8a]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031AE8FC0C; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 09:56:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.psconsult.nl (psc11.adsl.iaf.nl [80.89.238.138]) by mx1.psconsult.nl (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p329uQxf029423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:56:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@psconsult.nl) Received: (from paul@localhost) by mx1.psconsult.nl (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p329uQZK029422; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:56:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@psconsult.nl) X-Authentication-Warning: mx1.psconsult.nl: paul set sender to freebsd@psconsult.nl using -f Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:56:26 +0200 From: Paul Schenkeveld To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20110402095626.GA29060@psconsult.nl> References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> <4d96d545.e/wWTIUATgk2CGjt%perryh@pluto.rain.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4d96d545.e/wWTIUATgk2CGjt%perryh@pluto.rain.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Subject: Re: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 09:56:33 -0000 On Sat, Apr 02, 2011 at 12:50:29AM -0700, perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > > For a long time I am thinking to obtain a physically ( not only > > software ) based [read-only] FreeBSD edition by re-arranging some > > parts of it , but I do not know how to do it ... > > > After some years , MFM hard disks abandoned in favor of IDE > > ( Integrated Drive Electronics ) hard disks by moving controller > > to hard disk and eliminating use of add-on cards with a very > > unfortunate design decision as ( a write protect mechanism by > > a switch on the hard disks are not implemented ) . > > At least some IDE drives have write-protect jumpers, which could > presumably be replaced with connections to switches. > > > With respect to my knowledge , no one of the operating systems > > has a facility to separate read-only and modifiable parts ... > > SunOS 4 had a partial solution to this, by rearranging the FS layout > so that /usr could be mounted read-only (and often, from a server -- > IIRC a single /usr could be shared among multiple diskless clients). > They used quite a few symlinks so that things could be found in > their accustomed places although actually located elsewhere. The > scheme was fairly well described in the SunOS 4 manual set; granted > _finding_ a SunOS 4 manual set these days may be a challenge :) In fact, FreeBSD is very similar, /etc and /usr/local/etc may be written to for configuration purposes after building your system, /tmp and /var should really be writable (temp files, log files, sockets etc.) /home other application directories of course depend on the particular application and the rest can be r/o. Embedded systems (please read the freebsd-embedded mailing list) deal with similar issues and that's what nanobsd(8) was written for. Read http://www.psconsult.nl/talks/AsiaBSDcon2010-Servers if you want to see that similar techniques can also be applied to servers. Regards, Paul Schenkeveld From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 15:57:53 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2437F106566C; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:57:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F538FC0C; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:57:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.0.63] (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p32FsGmv054175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Apr 2011 09:54:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <4d96d545.e/wWTIUATgk2CGjt%perryh@pluto.rain.com> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 09:54:16 -0600 Message-Id: References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> <4d96d545.e/wWTIUATgk2CGjt%perryh@pluto.rain.com> To: perryh@pluto.rain.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (harmony.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.6]); Sat, 02 Apr 2011 09:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com, avg@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 15:57:53 -0000 On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:50 AM, perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: >=20 >> With respect to my knowledge , no one of the operating systems >> has a facility to separate read-only and modifiable parts ... >=20 > SunOS 4 had a partial solution to this, by rearranging the FS layout > so that /usr could be mounted read-only (and often, from a server -- > IIRC a single /usr could be shared among multiple diskless clients). > They used quite a few symlinks so that things could be found in > their accustomed places although actually located elsewhere. The > scheme was fairly well described in the SunOS 4 manual set; granted > _finding_ a SunOS 4 manual set these days may be a challenge :) FreeBSD can do this too. In fact, NanoBSD relies heavily on having most = of the system mounted read-only, and has MFS partitions for /etc and = /var. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 16:38:20 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E27106564A; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from exprod7og119.obsmtp.com (exprod7og119.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE258FC15; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:38:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob119.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTZdQ8tbE01LX7Xq25w+nuf5dYneLWapi@postini.com; Sat, 02 Apr 2011 09:38:20 PDT Received: from p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net (172.28.145.25) by P-EMHUB03-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.254.0; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 09:36:16 -0700 Received: from EMBX01-WF.jnpr.net ([fe80::1914:3299:33d9:e43b]) by p-emfe02-wf.jnpr.net ([fe80::c126:c633:d2dc:8090%11]) with mapi; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:37:52 -0400 From: Andrew Duane To: Warner Losh , "perryh@pluto.rain.com" Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:36:16 -0400 Thread-Topic: looking for error codes Thread-Index: AcvxTvHauLj/p3NoQGWKX8kFJ5nmLgABSPv5 Message-ID: References: <4D95E162.40605@FreeBSD.org> <4D95ECDE.1020504@FreeBSD.org> <4d96d545.e/wWTIUATgk2CGjt%perryh@pluto.rain.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com" , "avg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: looking for error codes X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 16:38:20 -0000 My work around read-only systems extended this, to allow a general FreeBSD = system to come up with "main media" write locked. In the RC files, MFS part= itions were made for /tmp, /var, and other places we needed to write. Now t= hat we're upgrading to a later BSD, I hope to refit these with union filesy= stems instead, to save space and complexity. -- Andrew Duane Juniper Networks 978-589-0551 10 Technology Park Dr aduane@juniper.net Westford, MA 01886-3418 ________________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]= On Behalf Of Warner Losh [imp@bsdimp.com] Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 11:54 AM To: perryh@pluto.rain.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com; avg@freebsd.org; = freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: looking for error codes On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:50 AM, perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: > >> With respect to my knowledge , no one of the operating systems >> has a facility to separate read-only and modifiable parts ... > > SunOS 4 had a partial solution to this, by rearranging the FS layout > so that /usr could be mounted read-only (and often, from a server -- > IIRC a single /usr could be shared among multiple diskless clients). > They used quite a few symlinks so that things could be found in > their accustomed places although actually located elsewhere. The > scheme was fairly well described in the SunOS 4 manual set; granted > _finding_ a SunOS 4 manual set these days may be a challenge :) FreeBSD can do this too. In fact, NanoBSD relies heavily on having most of= the system mounted read-only, and has MFS partitions for /etc and /var. Warner _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 18:00:12 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C090106566C for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:00:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aavzz@yandex.ru) Received: from forward10.mail.yandex.net (forward10.mail.yandex.net [77.88.61.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2208FC0A for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:00:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp6.mail.yandex.net (smtp6.mail.yandex.net [77.88.61.56]) by forward10.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 42DF2102155C for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:45:05 +0400 (MSD) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1301766305; bh=JLCmlwhyGxbYx4CnDNUVa0MYZyn/jhNJhR7Dfcbm/Tw=; h=Subject:From:To:Content-Type:Date:Message-ID:Mime-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=HhgXMgtegVDvpXuCULOvfATkaJqgmzs8Rg9TRYGODgK4/unRDF8ooO7SYgjLjQqcI jTPtSLBUrA+rNx05Ngiru9mFSJTisqIkxtbKCKae8wtL3N/9Dr/KJPtwrJwRrsKRgz 4Kp6I/WhLWkMccgmGOuZHdbTXvVVmM8d2ciJ70QA= Received: from [10.88.1.200] (unknown [91.210.24.40]) by smtp6.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPA id DAB642A804A for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:45:04 +0400 (MSD) From: Alex Zimnitsky To: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 21:46:52 +0400 Message-ID: <1301766412.2122.9.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.2 (2.32.2-1.fc14) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: cp1251 screenmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 18:00:12 -0000 Hello, hackers Screenmap for cp1251 appears to be missing. I tweaked a little koi8-r screenmap to produce cp1251 one. Here it goes -------------------CUT----------------- CUT -------------------------- # alt # scan cntrl alt alt cntrl lock # code base shift cntrl shift alt shift cntrl shift state # ------------------------------------------------------------------ 000 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 001 esc esc nop nop 155 155 debug nop O 002 '1' '!' nop nop 177 161 nop nop O 003 '2' '@' nul nul 178 192 128 128 O 004 '3' '#' nop nop 179 163 nop nop O 005 '4' '$' nop nop 180 164 nop nop O 006 '5' '%' nop nop 181 165 nop nop O 007 '6' '^' rs rs 182 222 158 158 O 008 '7' '&' nop nop 183 166 nop nop O 009 '8' '*' nop nop 184 170 nop nop O 010 '9' '(' nop nop 185 168 nop nop O 011 '0' ')' nop nop 176 169 nop nop O 012 '-' '_' us us 173 223 159 159 O 013 '=' '+' nop nop 189 171 nop nop O 014 bs bs del del 136 136 255 255 O 015 ht btab nop nop 137 btab nop nop O 016 'q' 'Q' dc1 dc1 241 209 145 145 C 017 'w' 'W' etb etb 247 215 151 151 C 018 'e' 'E' enq enq 229 197 133 133 C 019 'r' 'R' dc2 dc2 242 210 146 146 C 020 't' 'T' dc4 dc4 244 212 148 148 C 021 'y' 'Y' em em 249 217 153 153 C 022 'u' 'U' nak nak 245 213 149 149 C 023 'i' 'I' ht ht 233 201 137 137 C 024 'o' 'O' si si 239 207 143 143 C 025 'p' 'P' dle dle 240 208 144 144 C 026 '[' '{' esc esc 219 251 155 155 O 027 ']' '}' gs gs 221 253 157 157 O 028 cr cr nl nl 141 141 138 138 O 029 lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl O 030 'a' 'A' soh soh 225 193 129 129 C 031 's' 'S' dc3 dc3 243 211 147 147 C 032 'd' 'D' eot eot 228 196 132 132 C 033 'f' 'F' ack ack 230 198 134 134 C 034 'g' 'G' bel bel 231 199 135 135 C 035 'h' 'H' bs bs 232 200 136 136 C 036 'j' 'J' nl nl 234 202 138 138 C 037 'k' 'K' vt vt 235 203 139 139 C 038 'l' 'L' ff ff 236 204 140 140 C 039 ';' ':' nop nop 187 186 nop nop O 040 ''' '"' nop nop 167 162 nop nop O 041 '`' '~' nop nop 224 254 nop nop O 042 lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift O 043 '\' '|' fs fs 220 252 156 156 O 044 'z' 'Z' sub sub 250 218 154 154 C 045 'x' 'X' can can 248 216 152 152 C 046 'c' 'C' etx etx 227 195 131 131 C 047 'v' 'V' syn syn 246 214 150 150 C 048 'b' 'B' stx stx 226 194 130 130 C 049 'n' 'N' so so 238 206 142 142 C 050 'm' 'M' cr cr 237 205 141 141 C 051 ',' '<' nop nop 172 188 nop nop O 052 '.' '>' nop nop 174 190 nop nop O 053 '/' '?' nop nop 175 191 nop nop O 054 rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift O 055 '*' '*' nl nl 170 170 138 138 O 056 lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt O 057 ' ' ' ' nul ' ' 160 160 susp 160 O 058 alock clock clock clock clock clock clock clock O 059 fkey01 fkey13 fkey25 fkey37 scr01 scr11 scr01 scr11 O 060 fkey02 fkey14 fkey26 fkey38 scr02 scr12 scr02 scr12 O 061 fkey03 fkey15 fkey27 fkey39 scr03 scr13 scr03 scr13 O 062 fkey04 fkey16 fkey28 fkey40 scr04 scr14 scr04 scr14 O 063 fkey05 fkey17 fkey29 fkey41 scr05 scr15 scr05 scr15 O 064 fkey06 fkey18 fkey30 fkey42 scr06 scr16 scr06 scr16 O 065 fkey07 fkey19 fkey31 fkey43 scr07 scr07 scr07 scr07 O 066 fkey08 fkey20 fkey32 fkey44 scr08 scr08 scr08 scr08 O 067 fkey09 fkey21 fkey33 fkey45 scr09 scr09 scr09 scr09 O 068 fkey10 fkey22 fkey34 fkey46 scr10 scr10 scr10 scr10 O 069 nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock O 070 slock slock slock slock slock slock slock slock O 071 fkey49 '7' '7' '7' 183 183 183 183 N 072 fkey50 '8' '8' '8' 184 184 184 184 N 073 fkey51 '9' '9' '9' 185 185 185 185 N 074 fkey52 '-' '-' '-' 173 173 173 173 N 075 fkey53 '4' '4' '4' 180 180 180 180 N 076 fkey54 '5' '5' '5' 181 181 181 181 N 077 fkey55 '6' '6' '6' 182 182 182 182 N 078 fkey56 '+' '+' '+' 171 171 171 171 N 079 fkey57 '1' '1' '1' 177 177 177 177 N 080 fkey58 '2' '2' '2' 178 178 178 178 N 081 fkey59 '3' '3' '3' 179 179 179 179 N 082 fkey60 '0' '0' '0' 176 176 176 176 N 083 del '.' '.' '.' 174 174 boot boot N 084 alock alock alock alock alock alock alock alock O 085 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 086 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 087 fkey11 fkey23 fkey35 fkey47 scr11 scr11 scr11 scr11 O 088 fkey12 fkey24 fkey36 fkey48 scr12 scr12 scr12 scr12 O 089 cr cr nl nl 141 141 138 138 O 090 rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl O 091 '/' '/' nop nop 175 175 nop nop O 092 nscr pscr debug debug nop nop nop nop O 093 ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt O 094 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 O 095 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 O 096 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 O 097 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 O 098 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 O 099 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 O 100 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 O 101 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 O 102 fkey60 paste fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 O 103 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 boot fkey61 O 104 slock saver slock saver susp nop susp nop O 105 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 O 106 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 O 107 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 O 108 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 109 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 110 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 111 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 112 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 113 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 114 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 115 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 116 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 117 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 118 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 119 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 120 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 121 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 122 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 123 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 124 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 125 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 126 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 127 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 128 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 129 esc esc nop nop 155 155 debug nop O 130 '!' '1' nop nop 177 161 nop nop O 131 '"' '2' nul nul 178 192 128 128 O 132 ''' '3' nop nop 179 163 nop nop O 133 '*' '4' nop nop 180 164 nop nop O 134 ':' '5' nop nop 181 165 nop nop O 135 ',' '6' rs rs 182 222 158 158 O 136 '.' '7' nop nop 183 166 nop nop O 137 ';' '8' nop nop 184 170 nop nop O 138 '(' '9' nop nop 185 168 nop nop O 139 ')' '0' nop nop 176 169 nop nop O 140 '-' '_' us us 173 223 159 159 O 141 '=' '+' nop nop 189 171 nop nop O 142 bs bs del del 136 136 255 255 O 143 ht btab nop nop 137 btab nop nop O 144 233 201 dc1 dc1 241 209 145 145 C 145 246 214 etb etb 247 215 151 151 C 146 243 211 enq enq 229 197 133 133 C 147 234 202 dc2 dc2 242 210 146 146 C 148 229 197 dc4 dc4 244 212 148 148 C 149 237 205 em em 249 217 153 153 C 150 227 195 nak nak 245 213 149 149 C 151 248 216 ht ht 233 201 137 137 C 152 249 217 si si 239 207 143 143 C 153 231 199 dle dle 240 208 144 144 C 154 245 213 esc esc 219 251 155 155 C 155 250 218 gs gs 221 253 157 157 C 156 cr cr nl nl 141 141 138 138 O 157 lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl lctrl O 158 244 212 soh soh 225 193 129 129 C 159 251 219 dc3 dc3 243 211 147 147 C 160 226 194 eot eot 228 196 132 132 C 161 224 192 ack ack 230 198 134 134 C 162 239 207 bel bel 231 199 135 135 C 163 240 208 bs bs 232 200 136 136 C 164 238 206 nl nl 234 202 138 138 C 165 235 203 vt vt 235 203 139 139 C 166 228 196 ff ff 236 204 140 140 C 167 230 198 nop nop 187 186 nop nop C 168 253 221 nop nop 167 162 nop nop C 169 184 168 nop nop 224 254 nop nop C 170 lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift lshift O 171 '\' '|' fs fs 220 252 156 156 O 172 255 223 sub sub 250 218 154 154 C 173 247 215 can can 248 216 152 152 C 174 241 209 etx etx 227 195 131 131 C 175 236 204 syn syn 246 214 150 150 C 176 232 200 stx stx 226 194 130 130 C 177 242 210 so so 238 206 142 142 C 178 252 220 cr cr 237 205 141 141 C 179 225 193 nop nop 172 188 nop nop C 180 254 222 nop nop 174 190 nop nop C 181 '/' '?' nop nop 175 191 nop nop O 182 rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift rshift O 183 '*' '*' nl nl 170 170 138 138 O 184 lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt lalt O 185 ' ' ' ' nul ' ' 160 160 160 160 O 186 alock clock clock clock clock clock clock clock O 187 fkey01 fkey13 fkey25 fkey37 scr01 scr11 scr01 scr11 O 188 fkey02 fkey14 fkey26 fkey38 scr02 scr12 scr02 scr12 O 189 fkey03 fkey15 fkey27 fkey39 scr03 scr13 scr03 scr13 O 190 fkey04 fkey16 fkey28 fkey40 scr04 scr14 scr04 scr14 O 191 fkey05 fkey17 fkey29 fkey41 scr05 scr15 scr05 scr15 O 192 fkey06 fkey18 fkey30 fkey42 scr06 scr16 scr06 scr16 O 193 fkey07 fkey19 fkey31 fkey43 scr07 scr07 scr07 scr07 O 194 fkey08 fkey20 fkey32 fkey44 scr08 scr08 scr08 scr08 O 195 fkey09 fkey21 fkey33 fkey45 scr09 scr09 scr09 scr09 O 196 fkey10 fkey22 fkey34 fkey46 scr10 scr10 scr10 scr10 O 197 nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock nlock O 198 slock slock slock slock slock slock slock slock O 199 fkey49 '7' '7' '7' 183 183 183 183 N 200 fkey50 '8' '8' '8' 184 184 184 184 N 201 fkey51 '9' '9' '9' 185 185 185 185 N 202 fkey52 '-' '-' '-' 173 173 173 173 N 203 fkey53 '4' '4' '4' 180 180 180 180 N 204 fkey54 '5' '5' '5' 181 181 181 181 N 205 fkey55 '6' '6' '6' 182 182 182 182 N 206 fkey56 '+' '+' '+' 171 171 171 171 N 207 fkey57 '1' '1' '1' 177 177 177 177 N 208 fkey58 '2' '2' '2' 178 178 178 178 N 209 fkey59 '3' '3' '3' 179 179 179 179 N 210 fkey60 '0' '0' '0' 176 176 176 176 N 211 del '.' '.' '.' 174 174 boot boot N 212 alock alock alock alock alock alock alock alock O 213 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 214 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O 215 fkey11 fkey23 fkey35 fkey47 scr11 scr11 scr11 scr11 O 216 fkey12 fkey24 fkey36 fkey48 scr12 scr12 scr12 scr12 O 217 cr cr nl nl 141 141 138 138 O 218 rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl rctrl O 219 '/' '/' nop nop 175 175 nop nop O 220 nscr pscr debug debug nop nop nop nop O 221 ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt ralt O 222 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 fkey49 O 223 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 fkey50 O 224 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 fkey51 O 225 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 fkey53 O 226 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 fkey55 O 227 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 fkey57 O 228 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 fkey58 O 229 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 fkey59 O 230 fkey60 paste fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 fkey60 O 231 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 fkey61 boot fkey61 O 232 slock saver slock saver susp nop susp nop O 233 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 fkey62 O 234 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 fkey63 O 235 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 fkey64 O 236 nop nop nop nop nop nop nop nop O ---------------------------- CUT --------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 18:24:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 035AB1065674 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:24:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55808FC1E for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:24:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C08346B45; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:24:47 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Oleksandr Dudinskyi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <000001cbea59$eb1c4b00$c154e100$@com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: GSoC X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 18:24:48 -0000 On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Oleksandr Dudinskyi wrote: > I should like more specifically disclose my plan of action. One of the main > tasks is find the places where registered errors, subsequently error > analysis (their type) and separation errors related to disk and modifying > the output format. There are different types of errors such as soft, hard, > transport, device not ready, recoverable and other. Currently, presence the > problem of reports and the majority error logs built as an individual files. > Necessary changes in the kernel, which provide the emergence a database that > processes information from several sources. The current kernel can't report > what specific operations were errors, this further compounds the consistency > problem. Reports of drivers errors requires a change. Systematization format > recording of errors also is a priority,that we get and where the error > occurred. Hi Oleksandr: This sounds like a potentially interesting project, but it remains a bit abstract to me, which makes me worry about it as a GSoC project. Strong proposals typically have a well-defined and easily characterised objective (1-2 sentences), and 3-4 intermediate deliverables. I worry that what you've described may be a bit too researchy for a summer project, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise! Could you flesh out in a bit more detail how what you have in mind would work: are there new daemons? system calls? will you reuse existing logging or error-handling infrastructure? what is the namespace for errors? how will it affect current operations? We don't need perfect answers to these questions yet, but a slightly more worked out example might help resolve my concerns. Thanks! Robert From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 18:29:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6BC7106566B; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:29:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29A98FC17; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:29:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [65.122.17.41]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70B1246B51; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 14:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:29:48 +0100 (BST) From: Robert Watson X-X-Sender: robert@fledge.watson.org To: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: mdf@freebsd.org, Dimitry Andric , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 18:29:49 -0000 On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Warner Losh wrote: > On Mar 30, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Dimitry Andric wrote: >> This is a rather nasty hack, though. If we can make it work, we should >> probably try using --sysroot instead, or alternatively, -nostdinc and >> adding include dirs by hand. The same for executable and library search >> paths, although I am not sure if there is a way to completely reset those >> with the current options. > > I'm pretty sure that the origins of this hack pre-dates the -sysroot feature > in gcc. It works in -current and has for years, so nobody has cared enough > to even contemplate changing it. > > If you can make the sysroot feature work, that would be great, since that > would allow us to skip the compiler building phase if we were building using > external compilers. I have some patches to make that work, but this very > problem is what I'd worked my way up to. It works well if you are building > current on current, but not so well if you are mixing versions (you can mix > architectures if you are using the xdev feature I put in a while ago, but > even that has one or two niggles I need to iron out). Count me as another eager consumer awaiting a nice answer to the general cross-compile problem. I'm really looking for three things: (1) A bit more intelligence from our build framework regarding not rebuilding the toolchain quite so many times! I'd like to be able to do a buildworld with TARGET_ARCH with significantly improved performance. Perhaps we can do this already, in which case a pointer considered welcome. (2) Working clang/LLVM cross-compile of FreeBSD. This seems like a basic requirement to adopt clang/LLVM, and as far as I'm aware that's not yet a resolved issue? (3) Making it easy to plug in, first, an external gcc easily, and second, an external clang/LLVM. One worrying point for me on the last one is that we can't yet build the whole kernel with clang/LLVM, at least for i386/amd64, so I guess you need both external gcc *and* external clang/LLVM? We (Cambridge) are currently bringing up FreeBSD on a new soft-core 64-bit MIPS platform. We're already using a non-base gcc for our boot loader work, and plan to move to using clang/LLVM later in the year. The base system seems a bit short on detail when it comes to the above, currently. Robert From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 18:51:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4A9106566B; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:51:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8148FC18; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:51:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.0.63] (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p32IlXX9055302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:47:33 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <742085CD-7F6F-4879-9FFD-517EC3203D52@bsdimp.com> References: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> To: Robert Watson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (harmony.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.6]); Sat, 02 Apr 2011 12:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Cc: mdf@freebsd.org, Dimitry Andric , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 18:51:36 -0000 On Apr 2, 2011, at 12:29 PM, Robert Watson wrote: > On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >> On Mar 30, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Dimitry Andric wrote: >>> This is a rather nasty hack, though. If we can make it work, we = should probably try using --sysroot instead, or alternatively, -nostdinc = and adding include dirs by hand. The same for executable and library = search paths, although I am not sure if there is a way to completely = reset those with the current options. >>=20 >> I'm pretty sure that the origins of this hack pre-dates the -sysroot = feature in gcc. It works in -current and has for years, so nobody has = cared enough to even contemplate changing it. >>=20 >> If you can make the sysroot feature work, that would be great, since = that would allow us to skip the compiler building phase if we were = building using external compilers. I have some patches to make that = work, but this very problem is what I'd worked my way up to. It works = well if you are building current on current, but not so well if you are = mixing versions (you can mix architectures if you are using the xdev = feature I put in a while ago, but even that has one or two niggles I = need to iron out). >=20 > Count me as another eager consumer awaiting a nice answer to the = general cross-compile problem. I'm really looking for three things: >=20 > (1) A bit more intelligence from our build framework regarding not = rebuilding > the toolchain quite so many times! I'd like to be able to do a = buildworld > with TARGET_ARCH with significantly improved performance. Perhaps = we can > do this already, in which case a pointer considered welcome. External toolchain will allow us to not build the cross compiler. = another knob will allow us to omit building gcc and binutils for the = target. Between the two of these, we can be good. We already have the cross tool (xdev) targets that can build the FreeBSD = compiler to build on other architectures. This is what I'm using in the = external toolchain work that I've done (it is presently stalled, but = should start up again soon). It turns out that this is necessary for = arbitrary external toolchains, but not sufficient. The xdev targets = build a compiler with a fixed include path which the targets also = install into. Generic external tools will need the -sysroot parameters = passed into the build since they can (and will) be built without it. > (2) Working clang/LLVM cross-compile of FreeBSD. This seems like a = basic > requirement to adopt clang/LLVM, and as far as I'm aware that's not = yet a > resolved issue? 0 work has been done here to my knowledge. The world view for clang and = our in-tree gcc differ which makes it a challenge. > (3) Making it easy to plug in, first, an external gcc easily, and = second, an > external clang/LLVM. One worrying point for me on the last one is = that we > can't yet build the whole kernel with clang/LLVM, at least for = i386/amd64, > so I guess you need both external gcc *and* external clang/LLVM? Yes. The generic external piece is what I'm going towards. > We (Cambridge) are currently bringing up FreeBSD on a new soft-core = 64-bit MIPS platform. We're already using a non-base gcc for our boot = loader work, and plan to move to using clang/LLVM later in the year. = The base system seems a bit short on detail when it comes to the above, = currently. Yes. I've had to add about a dozen changes so far to get close to = building with xdev compilers. A similar number are needed to make it = easy to configure and add systree support, I think. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 19:10:06 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA8C7106566C; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:10:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwatson@freebsd.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [65.122.17.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D158FC0A; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:10:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.2.112] (host86-147-11-178.range86-147.btcentralplus.com [86.147.11.178]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E8A3D46B53; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:10:03 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Robert N. M. Watson" In-Reply-To: <742085CD-7F6F-4879-9FFD-517EC3203D52@bsdimp.com> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 20:10:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> <742085CD-7F6F-4879-9FFD-517EC3203D52@bsdimp.com> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: mdf@freebsd.org, Dimitry Andric , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 19:10:06 -0000 On 2 Apr 2011, at 19:47, Warner Losh wrote: >> (2) Working clang/LLVM cross-compile of FreeBSD. This seems like a = basic >> requirement to adopt clang/LLVM, and as far as I'm aware that's not = yet a >> resolved issue? >=20 > 0 work has been done here to my knowledge. The world view for clang = and our in-tree gcc differ which makes it a challenge. That's disappointing. I seem to recall it's more an issue of our build = integration with clang/LLVM than an underlying issue in clang/LLVM? >> We (Cambridge) are currently bringing up FreeBSD on a new soft-core = 64-bit MIPS platform. We're already using a non-base gcc for our boot = loader work, and plan to move to using clang/LLVM later in the year. = The base system seems a bit short on detail when it comes to the above, = currently. >=20 > Yes. I've had to add about a dozen changes so far to get close to = building with xdev compilers. A similar number are needed to make it = easy to configure and add systree support, I think. Sounds like great progress -- do you think we'll ship 9.0 in a "just = works" state with regard to this? Robert= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 21:00:51 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB96D1065672 for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:00:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ruddot@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wy0-f182.google.com (mail-wy0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F1B8FC0C for ; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wyf23 with SMTP id 23so4495303wyf.13 for ; Sat, 02 Apr 2011 14:00:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=pfFvr4pESTZ4ZlAjDou1rA5C5OkGFM9uGKeIysWiViY=; b=Og9XhNY+H6Yv6PGWvfc2D3cDGkloHhbyh/UhDnwqxDnEp31fHOMe6LGcu++QB4/3mk IF8hty79HjJ0u/2KslmpOY+wF8npsDdYS4qcENRtD6bDqEUdZcDUes7oMcmMV3PaGzbn XkL9sXw544GRydoSFl9KBsbgBo/7fiWFkpsss= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=uctub4QOQkNx8zMxbNoZvvK5hAT8RMKvzNkYfnSwAe9VOfQmQ+BjM4s4aMWoYsIz8Q V5R1vVfKnVp81H3iSIkMXBmbxV7xqllDnym5hDN16DZLQlTrB9/Tsgtz0pz/0tTxcJy9 va7byyHg5b/IFSJTUsCQbUkeVt3uPBena0BJM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.140.92 with SMTP id d70mr2335785wej.105.1301776539022; Sat, 02 Apr 2011 13:35:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.165.1 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 22:35:38 +0200 Message-ID: From: rudo To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: GSoC - BFS scheduler X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 21:00:51 -0000 Hello, I would like to participate in the Google Summer of Code 2011. I have chosen a topic from the ideas page - "(Re)implement the BFS scheduler in FreeBSD". I am looking for a possible future mentor. I would also include his name in my application to the GSoC. I have already started making myself familiar with the relevant parts of the FreeBSD kernel. Actually, I have written a small (very simple) demo scheduler that I will include in the application. rudo From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 2 22:49:27 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EB3D106566B; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 22:49:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C2C8FC18; Sat, 2 Apr 2011 22:49:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.0.63] (63.imp.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.63]) (authenticated bits=0) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p32MnMvX056507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:49:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:49:19 -0600 Message-Id: <5AF348C8-6AB6-490D-A12E-89A51528F58F@bsdimp.com> References: <4D934AF4.9080503@FreeBSD.org> <742085CD-7F6F-4879-9FFD-517EC3203D52@bsdimp.com> To: "Robert N. M. Watson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (harmony.bsdimp.com [10.0.0.6]); Sat, 02 Apr 2011 16:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: mdf@freebsd.org, Dimitry Andric , freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: Include file search path X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 22:49:27 -0000 On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:10 PM, Robert N. M. Watson wrote: > On 2 Apr 2011, at 19:47, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >>> (2) Working clang/LLVM cross-compile of FreeBSD. This seems like a = basic >>> requirement to adopt clang/LLVM, and as far as I'm aware that's not = yet a >>> resolved issue? >>=20 >> 0 work has been done here to my knowledge. The world view for clang = and our in-tree gcc differ which makes it a challenge. >=20 > That's disappointing. I seem to recall it's more an issue of our build = integration with clang/LLVM than an underlying issue in clang/LLVM? Yes. The problem isn't hard, the cross compile paradigm is just a = little different. >>> We (Cambridge) are currently bringing up FreeBSD on a new soft-core = 64-bit MIPS platform. We're already using a non-base gcc for our boot = loader work, and plan to move to using clang/LLVM later in the year. = The base system seems a bit short on detail when it comes to the above, = currently. >>=20 >> Yes. I've had to add about a dozen changes so far to get close to = building with xdev compilers. A similar number are needed to make it = easy to configure and add systree support, I think. >=20 > Sounds like great progress -- do you think we'll ship 9.0 in a "just = works" state with regard to this? I sure hope so. I'd like to have demoable stuff by BSDcan. Warner