From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 28 18:50:48 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100A7106566B; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:50:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gy0-f182.google.com (mail-gy0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A720A8FC15; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:50:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gyd10 with SMTP id 10so5110512gyd.13 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:50:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8PqZSYbdVmz6samYudcwQkXPH7EHrqkmRh2EyPrZGmA=; b=FSijwgxECi7138dJ3lLk1NZD3TIPFhtN6VBuVLju0qkw/3jdcjeoYFGsSjVGMRYsop JolMR9k/3jtQ0fVM6FWk7ewkYNVfsaRE148fExkY0yqMtatoHTu5zaNbkikesMj3ZMcq C0vE4eIVPCQUf/8DrIMmkcTh1cy4THNNTbMrk= Received: by 10.231.26.68 with SMTP id d4mr8548651ibc.66.1314557446062; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:50:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: utisoft@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.61.148 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:50:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110828184758.GA1189@tiny> References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20110828184758.GA1189@tiny> From: Chris Rees Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:50:16 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: WAWiAuuewCsU-4ZPApRTLyKH7tU Message-ID: To: Matthias Apitz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:49:53 +0000 Cc: Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current , "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:50:48 -0000 On 28 August 2011 19:47, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El d=EDa Sunday, August 28, 2011 a las 07:27:49PM +0100, Chris Rees escri= bi=F3: > >> On 27 August 2011 20:32, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Hartmann, O. >> > wrote: >> >> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >> >> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >> >> >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html >> > >> > Agreed. Things have changed quite a bit in the last decade. >> >> It reads rather FUD-like too. > > It's a pitty that the comments until now are only general like "full of > vintage stuff", "agreed", "rather FUD", but without concrete critics or > proposals of changes of wrong data. > No, it's just hopelessly out of date and needs removal/total rewriting. I find it embarassing to have it there to be honest with its current tone. Chris From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 28 18:54:58 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43869106564A for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:54:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 018108FC18 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:54:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so5131749gwb.13 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=Wo6U8cXLLuR74hKwhQwGnBtG80zp2JKOLapmNuMhbW8=; b=FE2fKwlSxALZzVpmZzAJadZsPP6Eb6zr/ygjfo8w4OBpATnEL8tJC96zfMUa/wfQ1O DWnLiSLwses7XDN+GEOKa0XScXRtNvvC3MZUNk05zoi0gHiBpWl/c2sHyTD3kfxw2EgK j69zu48TqvFQpTHh/pn4ajV8FcMFdkUTgYwfY= Received: by 10.43.59.142 with SMTP id wo14mr4309522icb.373.1314556099225; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:28:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: utisoft@gmail.com Received: by 10.231.61.148 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:27:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> From: Chris Rees Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:27:49 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1iS2lyL1UT45RyJ792DPMzRMhs0 Message-ID: To: Garrett Cooper Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:49:53 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current , "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:54:58 -0000 On 27 August 2011 20:32, Garrett Cooper wrote: > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Hartmann, O. > wrote: >> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html > > Agreed. Things have changed quite a bit in the last decade. It reads rather FUD-like too. Chris From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 28 20:30:47 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC2E106566C; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:30:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from ms16-1.1blu.de (ms16-1.1blu.de [89.202.0.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 692D68FC1A; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:30:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [82.113.99.164] (helo=tiny.Sisis.de.) by ms16-1.1blu.de with esmtpsa (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QxkNi-0000uG-SF; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:46:56 +0200 Received: from tiny.Sisis.de. (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tiny.Sisis.de. (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p7SIm0pT001226; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:48:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: (from guru@localhost) by tiny.Sisis.de. (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id p7SIlwLc001225; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:47:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) X-Authentication-Warning: tiny.Sisis.de.: guru set sender to guru@unixarea.de using -f Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:47:58 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: Chris Rees Message-ID: <20110828184758.GA1189@tiny> References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT (i386) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) X-Con-Id: 51246 X-Originating-IP: 82.113.99.164 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:49:53 +0000 Cc: Garrett Cooper , "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current , "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Matthias Apitz List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:30:47 -0000 El día Sunday, August 28, 2011 a las 07:27:49PM +0100, Chris Rees escribió: > On 27 August 2011 20:32, Garrett Cooper wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Hartmann, O. > > wrote: > >> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! > >> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. > >> > >> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html > > > > Agreed. Things have changed quite a bit in the last decade. > > It reads rather FUD-like too. It's a pitty that the comments until now are only general like "full of vintage stuff", "agreed", "rather FUD", but without concrete critics or proposals of changes of wrong data. matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.unixarea.de/ From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 28 19:07:43 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12408106566C; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:07:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CB1C8FC08; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:07:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qwc9 with SMTP id 9so3660563qwc.13 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:07:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Kghz4naCP0t6lwGhVWpMZLj6Pbgb5RN4Ntq5ZDniaJM=; b=J5/JDTmn+/Erb+w67Omx7UPRB+YrK4CzvV49RvwWfzR/ylVZ/NAcxJ5bejCAc0GHFX zEwucSPwLKknxq0x2V6rzxPHumSpgk57U2NIijngpvXLWBIN9rdmNUyr1YEkAKnjWiCl refeNpzHVUf66RX4hOib1JSk9k6tnhjkhNbes= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.197.130 with SMTP id ek2mr596008qab.129.1314558461962; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.19.131 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:07:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110828184758.GA1189@tiny> References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20110828184758.GA1189@tiny> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:07:41 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Matthias Apitz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:50:56 +0000 Cc: Chris Rees , "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current , "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:07:43 -0000 On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Matthias Apitz wrote: > El d=EDa Sunday, August 28, 2011 a las 07:27:49PM +0100, Chris Rees escri= bi=F3: > >> On 27 August 2011 20:32, Garrett Cooper wrote: >> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Hartmann, O. >> > wrote: >> >> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >> >> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >> >> >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html >> > >> > Agreed. Things have changed quite a bit in the last decade. >> >> It reads rather FUD-like too. > > It's a pitty that the comments until now are only general like "full of > vintage stuff", "agreed", "rather FUD", but without concrete critics or > proposals of changes of wrong data. Ok then: 1. It's out of date (the obvious). This comes down to some of the information being completely incorrect as far as featuresets, and just looks embarrassing in other respects because it's using Windows 2000 as a comparison (it's a 10 year old OS). 2. Broken links. 3. The smiley icons are very unprofessional. 4. There's a lot of wasted horizontal space on the webpage. 5. There's no data to back up some of the claimed observations (what version of FreeBSD, Linux, Windows were used; what performance metrics were obtained; how things were tuned; etc). 6. Some of the data (example: the SQL error text under "Performance" in the Windows column) is in the wrong spot, s.t. it distracts readers. If anything it belongs in the footnotes. 7. The breakdown is too terse. Execs and business types like looking at bullet points; the technical folks like looking at things in more gross detail. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 28 19:15:06 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C9C1065670; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:15:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66AEB8FC08; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:15:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk4 with SMTP id 4so1447209qyk.13 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:15:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=s07Ca8ylnfnpyAQZ0fPMqPJohPLvSfaX4z9EBIAiIW0=; b=qcFkcgxKh0wcXoxlOYqlmox0LTroHa4BTmIPL7blPj+upUHGb0zK+W0BQtM5rBsqbz ZtpCf4FusQYA6xpDLAu0RIHNs2TGOfxjpdX1KteVEfSBsxurmD/uYTT/Zmcfftt4Y5Ji 6VK2WUswM3aplpTu/bS1hCAggFV/AVz2dyjo4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.198.73 with SMTP id en9mr662565qab.29.1314558904206; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.19.131 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:15:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20110828184758.GA1189@tiny> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:15:04 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Matthias Apitz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:50:56 +0000 Cc: Chris Rees , "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current , "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:15:06 -0000 On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote= : > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Matthias Apitz wrote= : >> El d=EDa Sunday, August 28, 2011 a las 07:27:49PM +0100, Chris Rees escr= ibi=F3: >> >>> On 27 August 2011 20:32, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Hartmann, O. >>> > wrote: >>> >> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >>> >> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >>> >> >>> >> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html >>> > >>> > Agreed. Things have changed quite a bit in the last decade. >>> >>> It reads rather FUD-like too. >> >> It's a pitty that the comments until now are only general like "full of >> vintage stuff", "agreed", "rather FUD", but without concrete critics or >> proposals of changes of wrong data. > > Ok then: > > 1. It's out of date (the obvious). This comes down to some of the > information being completely incorrect as far as featuresets, and just > looks embarrassing in other respects because it's using Windows 2000 > as a comparison (it's a 10 year old OS). > 2. Broken links. > 3. The smiley icons are very unprofessional. > 4. There's a lot of wasted horizontal space on the webpage. > 5. There's no data to back up some of the claimed observations (what > version of FreeBSD, Linux, Windows were used; what performance metrics > were obtained; how things were tuned; etc). > 6. Some of the data (example: the SQL error text under "Performance" > in the Windows column) is in the wrong spot, s.t. it distracts > readers. If anything it belongs in the footnotes. > 7. The breakdown is too terse. Execs and business types like looking > at bullet points; the technical folks like looking at things in more > gross detail. One more: 8. Text like "The Linux community intentionally makes it difficult for hardware manufacturers to release binary-only drivers." is confrontational and unprofessional. It's the GPL license more than the community that forces vendors to opensource proprietary code because that's the primary goal of the license -- to keep the source free and open -- whereas BSD allows the developer to do whatever they want with the source. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Aug 28 19:32:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60CA3106566B; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:32:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51EE8FC1A; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:32:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qyk4 with SMTP id 4so1452075qyk.13 for ; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WG3IfAFatjaVUCkJfVpqj63+JAXcYHPgkxytf7n0ydo=; b=vUdzPwTLPVQWY/3nGdtPoPWm8QVoJGlblqLRMmUtkidOHC9NDRKcAk8JCCPxm+Scht 1+6Npw0NAQU1G/UdXD4uEDu0O5KeMLgHgxwlVYiMPpgvP8e+tBu/BL37bR0peYmf8qrA Qssul2cTwXW0qjIj29CWK2B77b51Q/MY/IyFI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.200.3 with SMTP id eu3mr611409qab.279.1314559942286; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.19.131 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:32:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9202191F-FCF4-481C-8B8E-8870DB7AB31B@gmail.com> References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20110828184758.GA1189@tiny> <9202191F-FCF4-481C-8B8E-8870DB7AB31B@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:32:22 -0700 Message-ID: From: Garrett Cooper To: Justin Hibbits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 20:50:56 +0000 Cc: Chris Rees , "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , Matthias Apitz , "Hartmann, O." , freebsd Current Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:32:25 -0000 On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Justin Hibbits wro= te: > On Aug 28, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote: > >> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Garrett Cooper >> wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Matthias Apitz >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> El d=EDa Sunday, August 28, 2011 a las 07:27:49PM +0100, Chris Rees >>>> escribi=F3: >>>> >>>>> On 27 August 2011 20:32, Garrett Cooper wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Hartmann, O. >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >>>>>>> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed. Things have changed quite a bit in the last decade. >>>>> >>>>> It reads rather FUD-like too. >>>> >>>> It's a pitty that the comments until now are only general like "full o= f >>>> vintage stuff", "agreed", "rather FUD", but without concrete critics o= r >>>> proposals of changes of wrong data. >>> >>> Ok then: >>> >>> 1. It's out of date (the obvious). This comes down to some of the >>> information being completely incorrect as far as featuresets, and just >>> looks embarrassing in other respects because it's using Windows 2000 >>> as a comparison (it's a 10 year old OS). >>> 2. Broken links. >>> 3. The smiley icons are very unprofessional. >>> 4. There's a lot of wasted horizontal space on the webpage. >>> 5. There's no data to back up some of the claimed observations (what >>> version of FreeBSD, Linux, Windows were used; what performance metrics >>> were obtained; how things were tuned; etc). >>> 6. Some of the data (example: the SQL error text under "Performance" >>> in the Windows column) is in the wrong spot, s.t. it distracts >>> readers. If anything it belongs in the footnotes. >>> 7. The breakdown is too terse. Execs and business types like looking >>> at bullet points; the technical folks like looking at things in more >>> gross detail. >> >> One more: >> >> 8. Text like "The Linux community intentionally makes it difficult for >> hardware manufacturers to release binary-only drivers." is >> confrontational and unprofessional. It's the GPL license more than the >> community that forces vendors to opensource proprietary code because >> that's the primary goal of the license -- to keep the source free and >> open -- whereas BSD allows the developer to do whatever they want with >> the source. > > Tiny nit on that: =A0The linux community has made it clear (see GregKH's = many > statements), that they will forever refuse to create a stable ABI, for th= e > express purpose of forcing hardware manufacturers to submit to their will= . Good point (forgot that essay) :). Seems like that would be a good reference for that claim. Thanks, -Garrett From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 29 10:13:21 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69904106566C; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:13:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257478FC08; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:13:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QxyqF-0007vG-TL>; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:13:19 +0200 Received: from e178014041.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.14.41] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QxyqF-0003gY-QB>; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:13:19 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5B663F.5080304@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:13:19 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Current , "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.14.41 Cc: Subject: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:13:21 -0000 Hello out there. Just read this a day ago at Phoronix: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTg0MQ I've also read that there is work done on the PTX assembly backend in LLVM for generation code for nVidia GPUs. I'm still grasping for the silky fathem having GPGPU on FreeBSD anyway like CUDA or OpenCL as the Linux and Windows fellows already have as well as the guys from OS X. Since nVidia offers 64bit ready BLOBs for their nice GPUs, I still hope that with LLVM, and maybe a proper OpenCL frontend like CLANG, FreeBSD users will have the chance to execute OpenCL code on a GPU. We use this stuff in science for now (and its done exclusiveley on Linux so far, since we use the CUDA SDK to generate OpenCL 1.1 code executed on TESLA and GTX570 graphics boards which give us impressive performance for our astrodynamical modelling ...). Sorry, if someone feels bothered by my repetitive bringing up this subject ... I still does not have lost all hope for FreeBSD. oh From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 29 12:35:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D19106566C for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:35:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yi0-f54.google.com (mail-yi0-f54.google.com [209.85.218.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285458FC13 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:35:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yib19 with SMTP id 19so4112311yib.13 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:35:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=IMS5OLmDUb0RzpjxlzYCRSehSSqmY2/7YMYadqOQsTo=; b=WGvKo+UN9SXIlTZTWWGSz/nCAjk36qQt1uR0wJWJ7du7OD3T6sXTVpqT8D6TnzHtTZ 1DfKaZZ3zZqLr3/7pBJtbBZuedT46S1dzriNgP5YfyLckKZUyfdOXQrnedOWNYx5E6uK af4pDkoPVqAGl9J5vW07BcilyovfIgLsKQegM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.32.14 with SMTP id f14mr4735839ybf.201.1314619974196; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.150.145.21 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 05:12:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E5B663F.5080304@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <4E5B663F.5080304@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:12:54 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ZW680Ghpl2ym7Xd2Kw7sgDSM3T4 Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: "Hartmann, O." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:35:11 -0000 Hi, http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=38242 Post 18 This indicates the driver supports CUDA somehow. What's missing is a FreeBSD runtime. Can someone please do some legwork with this and see if it's possible to bring the Linux CUDA SDK up in the linuxulator? Adrian On 29 August 2011 18:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: > Hello out there. > Just read this a day ago at Phoronix: > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTg0MQ > > I've also read that there is work done on the PTX assembly backend in LLVM > for generation code for nVidia GPUs. > I'm still grasping for the silky fathem having GPGPU on FreeBSD anyway like > CUDA or OpenCL as the Linux and Windows > fellows already have as well as the guys from OS X. > > Since nVidia offers 64bit ready BLOBs for their nice GPUs, I still hope that > with LLVM, and maybe a proper OpenCL frontend like > CLANG, FreeBSD users will have the chance to execute OpenCL code on a GPU. > We use this stuff in science for now (and its done > exclusiveley on Linux so far, since we use the CUDA SDK to generate OpenCL > 1.1 code executed on TESLA and GTX570 graphics > boards which give us impressive performance for our astrodynamical modelling > ...). > > Sorry, if someone feels bothered by my repetitive bringing up this subject > ... I still does not have lost all hope for FreeBSD. > > oh > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 29 12:31:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDF4106566C; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:31:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@yamagi.org) Received: from mail.yamagi.overkill.yamagi.org (unknown [IPv6:2a01:4f8:121:2102:1::7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C218FC08; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:31:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from happy.home.yamagi.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:5c0:150f:8700:16da:e9ff:fe0f:8071]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yamagi.overkill.yamagi.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06CE11666333; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:31:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:31:27 +0200 From: Yamagi Burmeister To: adrian@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20110829143127.4300c80b.lists@yamagi.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4E5B663F.5080304@zedat.fu-berlin.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="PGP-SHA1"; boundary="Signature=_Mon__29_Aug_2011_14_31_27_+0200_SbkiVMv_y4Zq8r.s" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:38:34 +0000 Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:31:40 -0000 --Signature=_Mon__29_Aug_2011_14_31_27_+0200_SbkiVMv_y4Zq8r.s Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:12:54 +0800 Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hi, >=20 > http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=3D38242 Post 18 >=20 > This indicates the driver supports CUDA somehow. What's missing is a > FreeBSD runtime. >=20 > Can someone please do some legwork with this and see if it's possible > to bring the Linux CUDA SDK up in the linuxulator? Yes that's possible. jhb@ wrote a little tutorial some time ago:=20 http://blogs.freebsdish.org/jhb/2010/07/20/using-cuda-with-the-native-freeb= sdamd64-nvidia-driver/ --=20 Homepage: www.yamagi.org Jabber: yamagi@yamagi.org GnuPG/GPG: 0xEFBCCBCB --Signature=_Mon__29_Aug_2011_14_31_27_+0200_SbkiVMv_y4Zq8r.s Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk5bhqcACgkQWTjlg++8y8tYfQCfWg7wkCjnbMMwkLEhao07Wikp WycAoLiThvYsKrtg7UAXuiHwl6Ga+Wxg =sOeT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Mon__29_Aug_2011_14_31_27_+0200_SbkiVMv_y4Zq8r.s-- From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 29 13:31:58 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C768C106566C; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:31:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DC508FC13; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:31:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1Qy1wT-0006Mo-FD>; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:31:57 +0200 Received: from e178014041.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.14.41] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1Qy1wT-0001kz-C2>; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:31:57 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5B94CC.3010207@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:31:56 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" References: <4E5B663F.5080304@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20110829143127.4300c80b.lists@yamagi.org> In-Reply-To: <20110829143127.4300c80b.lists@yamagi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.14.41 Cc: Adrian Chadd , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Yamagi Burmeister Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:31:58 -0000 On 08/29/11 14:31, Yamagi Burmeister wrote: > On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:12:54 +0800 > Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=38242 Post 18 >> >> This indicates the driver supports CUDA somehow. What's missing is a >> FreeBSD runtime. >> >> Can someone please do some legwork with this and see if it's possible >> to bring the Linux CUDA SDK up in the linuxulator? > Yes that's possible. jhb@ wrote a little tutorial some time ago: > http://blogs.freebsdish.org/jhb/2010/07/20/using-cuda-with-the-native-freebsdamd64-nvidia-driver/ > With beginnig of 2011 I tried everything possible to make CUDA SDK running on FreeBSD 9-CUR/amd64. For those interested in this subject, the mentioned forae entries and that mentioned tutorial are a bit outdated. I tried the tutorial mentioned by Yamagi, but I had never real success installing SDK 3.2/32bit. For serious scientific usage 32bit isn't a great deal, my model code highly depends on 64 bit in the portions were the model is calculated on the cpu, not the GPU. Anyway, having CUDA working in the Linuxulator would be great. But having something OpenCL-ish natively would be a real quantum leap ... And 64bit. My lectures in "building compilers" I liestend to is quite a time ago, so as far as I know, nVidias driver BLOB is executing some binary code that is only applicable for the GPU. Further, the OpenCL code or even CUDA code of a C/C++ software is runtime compiled when accessed and transfered to the GPU/driver, so the nvcc compiler is a "sine conditio qua non" in this game, so far. My thinking: eliminating the need of the nvcc producing PTX code/binary code via LLVM could be a solution. But at this point I do not know whether PTX has to translated again in binary code via nvcc to make the GPU understand what I want. By the beginning of this year Pathscale introduced a kind of compiler capable of HMPP, a very smart model like OpenMP. This compiler seems not to be ready by now and I never got access to a beta version to test whether it was capable of compiling CUDA ready code. As far as I know, HMPP is also an "open" standard. Well, conclusively, there seems no real solution to be present for FreeBSD by now (as I mentioned, the Linuxulator is no real alternative due to its 32bit limitations). oh From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 29 15:02:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03BB1065678; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:02:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@phoronix.com) Received: from phx1.phoronix.com (173.192.77.202-static.reverse.softlayer.com [173.192.77.202]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE658FC16; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:02:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from c-24-7-26-254.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([24.7.26.254] helo=www.palm.com) by phx1.phoronix.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qy2oU-0007tJ-Fp; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:27:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 07:27:47 -0700 From: To: "Yamagi Burmeister" , In-Reply-To: <20110829143127.4300c80b.lists@yamagi.org> X-Mailer: Palm webOS X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - phx1.phoronix.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - phoronix.com Message-Id: <20110829150211.E03BB1065678@hub.freebsd.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 15:02:12 -0000 Hi all, I'm involved in the Phoronix test suite. I'm on freebs= d-performance, so if you have any questions - CC me or freebsd-performance.= Regards, Matthee _________________________________________________________________ On Aug= 29, 2011 5:38 AM, Yamagi Burmeister wrote: On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:12:54 +0800=0A Adrian Chadd wrote:=0A =0A > Hi,=0A > =0A > http://forum= s.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=3D38242 Post 18=0A > =0A > Thi= s indicates the driver supports CUDA somehow. What's missing is a=0A >= ; FreeBSD runtime.=0A > =0A > Can someone please do some legwor= k with this and see if it's possible=0A > to bring the Linux CUDA SDK= up in the linuxulator?=0A =0A Yes that's possible. jhb@ wrote a litt= le tutorial some time ago: =0A http://blogs.freebsdish.org/jhb/2010/07/2= 0/using-cuda-with-the-native-freebsdamd64-nvidia-driver/=0A =0A -- = =0A =0A Homepage:=0A www.yamagi.org Jabber:=0A yamagi@yamagi.or= g GnuPG/GPG: 0xEFBCCBCB=0A From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 29 16:46:28 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08181106567D; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:46:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43438FC18; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:46:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so5942152gwb.13 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:46:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Asiemuwdytif4QCCbTHjU66YQF118sdxJsqDELUqq68=; b=nggYqSySUIUn+N8aTMLNp+cjLFHQf0DfUrz+DVEOf7iO3GA8WkFMt/ynVaIRKM7NnH qxQj6FsorWekUo26deBH3RUW2NtIR714Ct3VDd1YY+CcsLjfrFHx+GiE96sNsDEvH85w jOkRahuvZEgorfc45yT+tXAbKL6Vs0nSwmtQ0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.32.14 with SMTP id f14mr5037662ybf.201.1314636386711; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.150.145.21 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:46:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E5B94CC.3010207@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <4E5B663F.5080304@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <20110829143127.4300c80b.lists@yamagi.org> <4E5B94CC.3010207@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 00:46:26 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Jxdc1JiSEmPLUNSzUVIWED_50oE Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: "Hartmann, O." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Yamagi Burmeister Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:46:28 -0000 [snip] 32 bit CUDA support may be limiting to you, but it's: * not necessarily limiting to others; * a good starting point to demonstrate it's actually feasible; * a potential stepping stone to getting 64 bit support of some sort in place (whether it's the push for 64 bit linux support; or to get NVIDIA to notice FreeBSD some more, etc.) So if you want to see 64 bit FreeBSD CRDA support; please start by getting 32 bit support as working as possible, documented, and then as easy to install as you can get it. 2c, adrian From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 29 20:27:04 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD935106566C; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:27:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f54.google.com (mail-fx0-f54.google.com [209.85.161.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C4E78FC0C; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:27:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by fxe4 with SMTP id 4so6206452fxe.13 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:27:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mODxD/H1/CKmvsVjFheaesoHlMBeEb4JYbwlRL9JCsU=; b=vPQYWlrvxMgP0Hg2mpDL8YSmNImf8WlmddDHVvUHJUX+99uf9/yoi+lxtS9XKrMmv3 tgDtMLSRYeN9JP7F89yyuu1yeWp2FzlDLMhDRr4LG8OPhia+lcu/kVTSwJUS6fxR/WgN cSJkGGDP6NVVlTDicxuq3in3Wu7OivwVWhTk4= Received: by 10.223.88.193 with SMTP id b1mr64716fam.40.1314647912380; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limbo.lan ([195.225.157.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c5sm4018342fai.44.2011.08.29.12.58.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:58:29 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110829 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hartmann, O." References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:03:20 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:27:04 -0000 27.08.2011 22:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: > This website should be brushed up or taken offline! > It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. > > http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html I think this one would better look like list of major features with os comparison, like: = Networking = * IPv6: major support, best stack around. * SCTP: full kernel implementation, still no userland support (i.e. ssh doesn't work over sctp by default yet). = Data storage = * ZFS: full support, datasets, compression, dedup, other stuff. Linux has LVM (?features...) and btrfs (?unstable.. ?features..), Windows has dynamic disks since XP (?features). = SMP = * (?something about comparing other shedulers with SCHED_ULE), (?some rt stuff), (?some comparison with other interesting shedulers, like DragonflyBSD and QNX). If that page would be updated at least monthly giving fair comparison with other os'es it could serve a big pros list for preferring FreeBSD over other systems. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 08:25:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8190A106564A; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 08:25:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bruce@cran.org.uk) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (muon.cran.org.uk [IPv6:2a01:348:0:15:5d59:5c40:0:1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162528FC14; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 08:25:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.cran.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382BCE6B25; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:25:02 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cran.org.uk; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mail; bh=dBk/me1Zj3s6 cnct2zWjnPqHIoc=; b=RoANKaFu80S8jh/gZXNhRsnwlPmwFWVN0QxfQtPYz3S/ xoXnUh79VNZCq3tc0rCvTik0bri+Ws2Sb1aMgfwLq9zcIByT+5X8l6EwyznS1i4t y+4P1FBbYLeU1619+53cmBu/nGrhqJBduZb+faY4NVANqP2CwCV2maNjThYRDSg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=cran.org.uk; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=mail; b=V+eIjq D/UT+TRH2K3Hx79QF8kY12h0SyV/B/WxpJmxUrWNKeAZTZ0GIDbQnlfRx0dJfr8L Pl7FNfBq+0PgdB1B1bRpxwYjPR6O3MPEFyYet0Jj/IAbxa0wUheYWNqvMMiD9Iks apPlEYtbMtYjOOz8nN++EH2mVTueHJJJyq8Ks= Received: from [192.168.1.104] (188-222-18-231.zone13.bethere.co.uk [188.222.18.231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.cran.org.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E4F0BE622C; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:25:01 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <4E5C9E5B.6010404@cran.org.uk> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:24:59 +0100 From: Bruce Cran User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110812 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Volodymyr Kostyrko References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current , "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 08:25:03 -0000 On 29/08/2011 20:58, Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: > = SMP = > * (?something about comparing other shedulers with SCHED_ULE), (?some > rt stuff), (?some comparison with other interesting shedulers, like > DragonflyBSD and QNX). From a recent post to -questions: "Alas, during a recent kernel build, I used the -j2 command line option in "make" and watched as the scheduler repeatedly assigned two instances of cc (the most CPU-intensive program) to the same core." I'm not sure this is something we're really better at, unfortunately: I know I've watched Windows really grok multi-socket, multi-core HyperThreaded systems and prefer real cores on the same NUMA node when running a multi-threaded application, whereas it seems FreeBSD struggles sometimes. -- Bruce Cran From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 09:13:36 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212A5106564A; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:13:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0D98FC13; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:13:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QyKNy-0007bX-RJ>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:13:34 +0200 Received: from e178029245.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.29.245] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QyKNy-0008Fz-O8>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:13:34 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:13:34 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Petter Selasky References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> In-Reply-To: <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.29.245 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:13:36 -0000 On 08/30/11 09:29, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On Monday 29 August 2011 21:58:29 Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: >> 27.08.2011 22:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: >>> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >>> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >>> >>> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html >> I think this one would better look like list of major features with os >> comparison, like: >> >> = Networking = >> * IPv6: major support, best stack around. >> * SCTP: full kernel implementation, still no userland support (i.e. >> ssh doesn't work over sctp by default yet). >> >> = Data storage = >> * ZFS: full support, datasets, compression, dedup, other stuff. Linux >> has LVM (?features...) and btrfs (?unstable.. ?features..), Windows has >> dynamic disks since XP (?features). >> >> = SMP = >> * (?something about comparing other shedulers with SCHED_ULE), (?some >> rt stuff), (?some comparison with other interesting shedulers, like >> DragonflyBSD and QNX). >> > And USB. I believe there are significant changes in the USB subsystems which > those who are making performance benchmarks completely fail to mention. > > --HPS > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" What's about DTrace? = Development/System Profiling = * DTrace: Some notes of the Kernel Gurus what this could mean for performance profiling and development = Licensing Model = * Some striking comments on the advantage for companies or interested people of the BSD-like licensing model over the GPLv3 on which Linux is based now and which has serious implications for those who wants to develop and sell software developed on/with GNU stuff. it would be very honest, if we do not only emphasize only the pros. BSD came from the academic environment, that was where I met it the first time and I appreciated the way things were developed and 'sloppyness' was a nogo. So we should keep it up and a serious and honest set of contraru points for all compared OS should be appreciable. Does the VM of FreeBSD still have advantges (measurable) over Linux? From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 09:49:19 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03E11065679 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:49:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pluknet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ew0-f54.google.com (mail-ew0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C088FC26 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:49:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy1 with SMTP id 1so3625258ewy.13 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:49:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tVBYapmGePA/stkdaOBX4hqSgJ/VzCuxSVwunGpK+jw=; b=kHiEiyU0oTkBbHyY0VYQZ/CFd4ol9evL4OsSGAiLOBE5fSgaCdjO62tFOFvg61AeA+ p7SJGLqPXsL5UI3qqzCXgwQ4QPoy7xoPjUznvqhhY5NPCQOqib6rSz/ml7JUNWa5DrsV nqIQQJGb5xFB4XGoWmpy5UixIOEFgbtH+49L8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.18.39 with SMTP id k39mr1812945eek.164.1314696226655; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.98.73 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 02:23:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:23:46 +0400 Message-ID: From: Sergey Kandaurov To: "Hartmann, O." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:49:19 -0000 On 30 August 2011 13:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: > On 08/30/11 09:29, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >> >> On Monday 29 August 2011 21:58:29 Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: >>> >>> 27.08.2011 22:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: >>>> >>>> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >>>> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >>>> >>>> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html >>> >>> I think this one would better look like list of major features with os >>> comparison, like: >>> >>> =3D Networking =3D >>> =A0 * IPv6: major support, best stack around. >>> =A0 * SCTP: full kernel implementation, still no userland support (i.e. >>> ssh doesn't work over sctp by default yet). >>> >>> =3D Data storage =3D >>> =A0 * ZFS: full support, datasets, compression, dedup, other stuff. Lin= ux >>> has LVM (?features...) and btrfs (?unstable.. ?features..), Windows has >>> dynamic disks since XP (?features). >>> >>> =3D SMP =3D >>> =A0 * (?something about comparing other shedulers with SCHED_ULE), (?so= me >>> rt stuff), (?some comparison with other interesting shedulers, like >>> DragonflyBSD and QNX). >>> >> And USB. I believe there are significant changes in the USB subsystems >> which >> those who are making performance benchmarks completely fail to mention. >> >> --HPS >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" > > What's about DTrace? > > =3D Development/System Profiling =3D > =A0* DTrace: Some notes of the Kernel Gurus what this could mean for > performance profiling and development > > =3D Licensing Model =3D > =A0* Some striking comments on the advantage for companies or interested > people of the BSD-like licensing model over the GPLv3 on which Linux is > based now and which has serious implications for those who wants to devel= op > and sell software developed on/with GNU stuff. it would be very honest, i= f > we do not only emphasize only the pros. BSD came from the academic > environment, that was where I met it the first time and I appreciated the > way things were developed and 'sloppyness' was a nogo. So we should keep = it > up and a serious and honest set of contraru points for all compared OS > should be appreciable. > > > Does the VM of FreeBSD still have advantges (measurable) over Linux? [Taking random email.] I think we could merge the $subj web page with this one (which is more actual, as of 7.0): http://www.freebsd.org/features.html --=20 wbr, pluknet From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 10:00:02 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31142106564A; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:00:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AAE8FC14; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:00:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QyL6t-0007N1-TF>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:59:59 +0200 Received: from e178029245.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.29.245] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QyL6t-0003Mr-QK>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:59:59 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5CB49F.50806@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:59:59 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mihamina Rakotomandimby References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <4E5CAD9E.6050903@rktmb.org> In-Reply-To: <4E5CAD9E.6050903@rktmb.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.29.245 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd Current Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:00:02 -0000 On 08/30/11 11:30, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: > On 08/29/2011 10:58 PM, Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: >> If that page would be updated at least monthly giving fair comparison >> with other os'es it could serve a big pros list for preferring FreeBSD >> over other systems. > > I dont think a monthly update is the good solution. > A per release update is better, as far as releases bring a new set > that could be compared. > > Then, a deep knwoledge of the other OSes is required in order to keep > credit. I think it's a huge amount of work, that should be assigned to > the project itself. > > IMHO, Let's delegate this task to Wikipedia or StackOverflow... > We havn't started updating the old one and now we start thingking about management and scheduling? I would be happy if such a page would see an update in shorter terms like 11 years ... Oliver From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 07:42:31 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678E0106566B for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 07:42:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe07.c2i.net [212.247.154.194]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48BD8FC15 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 07:42:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-Score: 0.000000 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=We2KpSpXIp7zua8olfHtbA6oPL2p8ijoExYxXUNIRvU= c=1 sm=1 a=SvYTsOw2Z4kA:10 a=IC3tPse-fb0A:10 a=b3QVEWO9ABQA:10 a=WQU8e4WWZSUA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=CL8lFSKtTFcA:10 a=i9M/sDlu2rpZ9XS819oYzg==:17 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=3rZIGIF3AnKcUkR4-NcA:9 a=5HgKeDz52PopTRKQQQEA:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=JSCAq1iC0rcA:10 a=i9M/sDlu2rpZ9XS819oYzg==:117 Received: from [188.126.198.129] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop002.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe07.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.19) with ESMTPA id 172434536; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:32:26 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:29:51 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-STABLE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> X-Face: *nPdTl_}RuAI6^PVpA02T?$%Xa^>@hE0uyUIoiha$pC:9TVgl.Oq, NwSZ4V"|LR.+tj}g5 %V,x^qOs~mnU3]Gn; cQLv&.N>TrxmSFf+p6(30a/{)KUU!s}w\IhQBj}[g}bj0I3^glmC( :AuzV9:.hESm-x4h240C`9=w MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:03:20 +0000 Cc: Volodymyr Kostyrko , "Hartmann, O." , "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 07:42:31 -0000 On Monday 29 August 2011 21:58:29 Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: > 27.08.2011 22:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: > > This website should be brushed up or taken offline! > > It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html > > I think this one would better look like list of major features with os > comparison, like: > > = Networking = > * IPv6: major support, best stack around. > * SCTP: full kernel implementation, still no userland support (i.e. > ssh doesn't work over sctp by default yet). > > = Data storage = > * ZFS: full support, datasets, compression, dedup, other stuff. Linux > has LVM (?features...) and btrfs (?unstable.. ?features..), Windows has > dynamic disks since XP (?features). > > = SMP = > * (?something about comparing other shedulers with SCHED_ULE), (?some > rt stuff), (?some comparison with other interesting shedulers, like > DragonflyBSD and QNX). > And USB. I believe there are significant changes in the USB subsystems which those who are making performance benchmarks completely fail to mention. --HPS From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 14:13:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DED3106564A; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:13:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrosehua@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gw0-f54.google.com (mail-gw0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7C768FC12; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:13:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so6772465gwb.13 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 07:13:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=OyXPJvjRCFiMWaiEQPlIHvgQRkadAAHv4qSd2shU5HQ=; b=A0A6WV41hO9OOVrWM4oh15sVBMcVra1PkBHHn/7IOc0vcdqMuVOvds7lyNEMwNFRfb Lj/1OEM7mLHo1E1kokbjV27DB3ZhC5D5E0nkiYdIJQtGlu9yakEFQGR6TSloe7/l2pPf VSQKB1N9S6YH0G1auJf7w9UGEZsO3y4JRwp2E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.43.50.5 with SMTP id vc5mr5764723icb.455.1314711909483; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:45:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.241.5 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:45:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:45:09 +0800 Message-ID: From: Paul Ambrose To: Sergey Kandaurov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "Hartmann, O." , Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:13:23 -0000 I do not believe the current status of DTrace is appropriate for promoting 1. DTrace is an experimental function or Semi-finished products. The kernel dtrace support is ok, but the userland support is far from completion(at least the pid provider has many bugs) 2 the FreeBSD implementation is different from Solaris/Mac OS X. The DTraceToolkit, which has many amazing feature, can not 100% works on FreeBSD, and there is no doc to identify the difference. 3 There is a missing feature list about DTrace, but no schedule list about when to fix it. 2011/8/30 Sergey Kandaurov > On 30 August 2011 13:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: > > On 08/30/11 09:29, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > >> > >> On Monday 29 August 2011 21:58:29 Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: > >>> > >>> 27.08.2011 22:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: > >>>> > >>>> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! > >>>> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html > >>> > >>> I think this one would better look like list of major features with os > >>> comparison, like: > >>> > >>> = Networking = > >>> * IPv6: major support, best stack around. > >>> * SCTP: full kernel implementation, still no userland support (i.e. > >>> ssh doesn't work over sctp by default yet). > >>> > >>> = Data storage = > >>> * ZFS: full support, datasets, compression, dedup, other stuff. Linux > >>> has LVM (?features...) and btrfs (?unstable.. ?features..), Windows has > >>> dynamic disks since XP (?features). > >>> > >>> = SMP = > >>> * (?something about comparing other shedulers with SCHED_ULE), (?some > >>> rt stuff), (?some comparison with other interesting shedulers, like > >>> DragonflyBSD and QNX). > >>> > >> And USB. I believe there are significant changes in the USB subsystems > >> which > >> those who are making performance benchmarks completely fail to mention. > >> > >> --HPS > >> _______________________________________________ > >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > What's about DTrace? > > > > = Development/System Profiling = > > * DTrace: Some notes of the Kernel Gurus what this could mean for > > performance profiling and development > > > > = Licensing Model = > > * Some striking comments on the advantage for companies or interested > > people of the BSD-like licensing model over the GPLv3 on which Linux is > > based now and which has serious implications for those who wants to > develop > > and sell software developed on/with GNU stuff. it would be very honest, > if > > we do not only emphasize only the pros. BSD came from the academic > > environment, that was where I met it the first time and I appreciated the > > way things were developed and 'sloppyness' was a nogo. So we should keep > it > > up and a serious and honest set of contraru points for all compared OS > > should be appreciable. > > > > > > Does the VM of FreeBSD still have advantges (measurable) over Linux? > > [Taking random email.] > > I think we could merge the $subj web page with this one (which is > more actual, as of 7.0): http://www.freebsd.org/features.html > > -- > wbr, > pluknet > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 14:17:22 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60AAA1065675; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:17:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1597A8FC1B; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:17:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QyP7x-0003Yr-2M>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:17:21 +0200 Received: from e178029245.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.29.245] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QyP7w-00059V-Ua>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:17:21 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5CF0F0.6050208@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:17:20 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Ambrose References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.29.245 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , Sergey Kandaurov , Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:17:22 -0000 Sorry, my fault, my stupid. One bonus less on FreeBSD :-( On 08/30/11 15:45, Paul Ambrose wrote: > I do not believe the current status of DTrace is appropriate for promoting > > 1. DTrace is an experimental function or Semi-finished products. The kernel > dtrace support is ok, but the userland support is far from completion(at > least the pid provider has many bugs) > > 2 the FreeBSD implementation is different from Solaris/Mac OS X. The > DTraceToolkit, which has many amazing feature, can not 100% works on > FreeBSD, and there is no doc to identify the difference. > > 3 There is a missing feature list about DTrace, but no schedule list about > when to fix it. > > 2011/8/30 Sergey Kandaurov > >> On 30 August 2011 13:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: >>> On 08/30/11 09:29, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>>> On Monday 29 August 2011 21:58:29 Volodymyr Kostyrko wrote: >>>>> 27.08.2011 22:13, Hartmann, O. wrote: >>>>>> This website should be brushed up or taken offline! >>>>>> It seems full of vintage stuff from glory days. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html >>>>> I think this one would better look like list of major features with os >>>>> comparison, like: >>>>> >>>>> = Networking = >>>>> * IPv6: major support, best stack around. >>>>> * SCTP: full kernel implementation, still no userland support (i.e. >>>>> ssh doesn't work over sctp by default yet). >>>>> >>>>> = Data storage = >>>>> * ZFS: full support, datasets, compression, dedup, other stuff. Linux >>>>> has LVM (?features...) and btrfs (?unstable.. ?features..), Windows has >>>>> dynamic disks since XP (?features). >>>>> >>>>> = SMP = >>>>> * (?something about comparing other shedulers with SCHED_ULE), (?some >>>>> rt stuff), (?some comparison with other interesting shedulers, like >>>>> DragonflyBSD and QNX). >>>>> >>>> And USB. I believe there are significant changes in the USB subsystems >>>> which >>>> those who are making performance benchmarks completely fail to mention. >>>> >>>> --HPS >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >>>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> What's about DTrace? >>> >>> = Development/System Profiling = >>> * DTrace: Some notes of the Kernel Gurus what this could mean for >>> performance profiling and development >>> >>> = Licensing Model = >>> * Some striking comments on the advantage for companies or interested >>> people of the BSD-like licensing model over the GPLv3 on which Linux is >>> based now and which has serious implications for those who wants to >> develop >>> and sell software developed on/with GNU stuff. it would be very honest, >> if >>> we do not only emphasize only the pros. BSD came from the academic >>> environment, that was where I met it the first time and I appreciated the >>> way things were developed and 'sloppyness' was a nogo. So we should keep >> it >>> up and a serious and honest set of contraru points for all compared OS >>> should be appreciable. >>> >>> >>> Does the VM of FreeBSD still have advantges (measurable) over Linux? >> [Taking random email.] >> >> I think we could merge the $subj web page with this one (which is >> more actual, as of 7.0): http://www.freebsd.org/features.html >> >> -- >> wbr, >> pluknet >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 15:57:25 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36507106566B for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:57:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C048FC1F for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:57:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id SAA00777; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:39:28 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4E5D0430.9090606@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:39:28 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110705 Thunderbird/5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Ambrose References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 16:05:10 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:57:25 -0000 on 30/08/2011 16:45 Paul Ambrose said the following: > I do not believe the current status of DTrace is appropriate for promoting > > 1. DTrace is an experimental function or Semi-finished products. The kernel > dtrace support is ok, but the userland support is far from completion(at > least the pid provider has many bugs) > > 2 the FreeBSD implementation is different from Solaris/Mac OS X. The > DTraceToolkit, which has many amazing feature, can not 100% works on > FreeBSD, and there is no doc to identify the difference. > > 3 There is a missing feature list about DTrace, but no schedule list about > when to fix it. 4. There is a missing developer/maintainer for DTrace on FreeBSD. Nevertheless the kernel DTrace is quite usable and useful for kernel debugging. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 17:44:15 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DD9106567F; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:44:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (pancho.soaustin.net [76.74.250.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F038FC0A; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:44:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id DD3FF5615B; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 12:27:36 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 12:27:36 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: Paul Ambrose Message-ID: <20110830172736.GA18635@lonesome.com> References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:48:52 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , Sergey Kandaurov , "Hartmann, O." , Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:44:15 -0000 On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 09:45:09PM +0800, Paul Ambrose wrote: > 3 There is a missing feature list about DTrace, but no schedule list about > when to fix it. We just need someone who wants to spend a lot of time working on it. Without that, there is no point in putting up a schedule. mcl From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 19:12:37 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4C3106564A; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:12:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B048FC1C; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:12:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id WAA03386; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:12:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1QyTjd-00057C-4C; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:12:33 +0300 Message-ID: <4E5D361F.6060800@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:12:31 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110830 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Ambrose References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5D0430.9090606@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4E5D0430.9090606@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:49:13 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:12:37 -0000 on 30/08/2011 18:39 Andriy Gapon said the following: > 4. There is a missing developer/maintainer for DTrace on FreeBSD. I probably should clarify this point: it doesn't have to be *the* maintainer, a collective maintainer is also perfect. Thus, contributions are very welcome. > Nevertheless the kernel DTrace is quite usable and useful for kernel debugging. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 21:22:20 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE991065675; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:22:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB24D8FC12; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:22:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QyVlB-0003pu-Ue>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:22:18 +0200 Received: from e178029245.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.29.245] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QyVlB-0004VF-Rq>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:22:17 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5D5489.4070408@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:22:17 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: giffunip@tutopia.com References: <1314733660.22981.YahooMailClassic@web113503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1314733660.22981.YahooMailClassic@web113503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.29.245 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, "b. f." Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:22:20 -0000 On 08/30/11 21:47, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > FWIW; > > Christopher Bergström and Pathscale delivered the EKOPath > Compiler Suite, but no one followed up: > > (From the WantedPorts Wiki) > https://github.com/pathscale/path64-suite > > There has been very low interest in the FreeBSD port, > and unfortunately this is a bad signal that we give to > companies that want to contribute :(. > > Pedro. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Well, that's a pitty and I regret that there is so few interest in this. I had several emails flipping around between C. Bergström and myself since I wanted to test the compiler suite for some software I needed for my thesis, but I never got a copy. Maybe the response was so incredible low he decided not to respond anymore. Since I think the PathScale compiler, even if commercial, would be a breakthrough, since it uses openMP similar HMPP syntax and embedded #pragmas, it would be a tremendous benefit for developers just shifting their code nearly unchanged simply by adjusting their OpenMP #pragma omp towards #pragma hmpp. But the lack of response and non-shown interests shows a undeobtly signal that freeBSD seems to be dead for the HPC community and this could be also an indication for the lack of CUDA support by nVidia, Why performing efforts if no one cares? A great chance seems to have passed by ... Well, the FreeBSD team must leran it the hard way ... From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 21:36:53 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D63106564A; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:36:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856CB8FC15; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:36:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost.apl.washington.edu [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id p7ULarI0038096; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:36:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id p7ULar5D038095; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:36:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:36:53 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: "Hartmann, O." Message-ID: <20110830213653.GA37937@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <1314733660.22981.YahooMailClassic@web113503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5D5489.4070408@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4E5D5489.4070408@zedat.fu-berlin.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:51:36 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , giffunip@tutopia.com, "b. f." , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:36:53 -0000 On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:22:17PM +0200, Hartmann, O. wrote: > On 08/30/11 21:47, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: > > > >Christopher Bergstr?m and Pathscale delivered the EKOPath > >Compiler Suite, but no one followed up: > > > >(From the WantedPorts Wiki) > >https://github.com/pathscale/path64-suite > > > >There has been very low interest in the FreeBSD port, > >and unfortunately this is a bad signal that we give to > >companies that want to contribute :(. > > > >Pedro. I've tested pathf90 on FreeBSD 9.0. Once I got it built, I was underwhelmed by its performance. I also found that it could not read its own error message catalogues, which of course make an unpleasant programming experience. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 21:53:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C674F106566C for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:53:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vw0-f54.google.com (mail-vw0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1308FC23 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:53:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vws18 with SMTP id 18so120321vws.13 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:53:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=4rfxYL08driGl8azEUCV6orhva6WkZZqZM+kDktoXjY=; b=Ghb5FFzcAln8dRvYZWGsxwGPokw71tx/uw36Ro2oryW4Biwkcgff8PNetk3cnCz+K/ rWVD04asGyhhABfsecjIipBS7nYkEBHCRkuXPsfay+4TW26cqJQRHkDhWwxbsLbDE5M9 XrptxXlgvbbgYBH38NccqFTpNXOayRB8OCaG8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.90.37 with SMTP id bt5mr1830563vdb.364.1314739565613; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Sender: kmacybsd@gmail.com Received: by 10.52.187.231 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:26:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E5D5489.4070408@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <1314733660.22981.YahooMailClassic@web113503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5D5489.4070408@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:26:05 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tVx76XN5TGfL0Vh27qmNrK7HXP0 Message-ID: From: "K. Macy" To: "Hartmann, O." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , giffunip@tutopia.com, "b. f." , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:53:39 -0000 > But the lack of response and non-shown interests shows a undeobtly signal > that freeBSD seems to be > dead for the HPC community and this could be also an indication for the lack > of CUDA support > by nVidia, Why performing efforts if no one cares? A great chance seems to > have passed by ... I wouldn't read too much in to it. What was provided only fit a fairly narrow niche. Nvidia won't build their libraries on freebsd until we "prove the market" which is fairly hard to do when you have to jump through hoops just to get it to run and need to have a linux environment to build the apps. -Kip From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 30 22:21:03 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8201065672; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:21:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4078FC14; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:21:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QyWg1-00011V-PI>; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 00:21:01 +0200 Received: from e178029245.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.29.245] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QyWg1-0007Pz-KH>; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 00:21:01 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5D624D.4050109@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 00:21:01 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "K. Macy" References: <1314733660.22981.YahooMailClassic@web113503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.29.245 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , giffunip@tutopia.com, "b. f." , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:21:03 -0000 On 08/30/11 22:14, K. Macy wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: >> FWIW; >> >> Christopher Bergström and Pathscale delivered the EKOPath >> Compiler Suite, but no one followed up: >> >> (From the WantedPorts Wiki) >> https://github.com/pathscale/path64-suite >> >> There has been very low interest in the FreeBSD port, >> and unfortunately this is a bad signal that we give to >> companies that want to contribute :(. >> > The problem I have with that is that they only support the high-end > computing variant of the card which I doubt any of us has. Without the > documentation to extend the work to ordinary cards, e.g. my GTX460, it > isn't that useful. > > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Well, C. Bergström wrote that the major focus is on the TESLA card, but there may be chance that it also is working on the GTX570 or GTX580 (or even the GTX 560Ti, which is also spread around our department for GPGPU stuff). But I never had a chance to test this. I'm no developer and my software is also "copied" and home-brewn, but I think it was a chance to do a real life test. Since April we run a server with a TESLA M2050, the card the Enzo claims to support. But my time is up by the end of this year and I need to get finnished my thesis so we decided to install Linux for CUDA usage. I left two spare partitions for FreeBSD ... but I never got a call ... Well, if they offer support for expensive card in the first place and we would show and assure that there is potential for the consumer cards, i guess then there will be a motivation to do the development that direction. In this case we, the customer, have to be active! Fact is, that most departments I know (mainly nuclear physics, theoretical meteorologists, astrophysicists and planetologists) do not have high-end GPU computing cards, all of them do have a lot of smaller consumer cards and they run CUDA with incredible results in performance! Well, a TESLA M2050 is much faster, but is is four to five times more the money I have to spend for the low end cards. I think this fact is also known by PatScale as well as it is obvious to me. But if the department realizes that there is a softare/compiler, than their willing to spend more money on maybe a professional card is less "frictional". Well, as the advert of PathScales EKOpath compiler promised, there would also be a CUDA support. Could you imagine what kind of Mekka this could be, simply compile CUDA stuff on a FreeBSD box and also having the ability to code the same stuff with HMPP in a next, optimizing step? Well, now I learn to code OpenCL and CUDA and maybe I'm back soon for HMPP. But it seems quite sure that none of the GPGPU stuff will soon be usable on a FreeBSD box. So why avoiding further Linux .... :-( From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 03:00:29 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D5E1065674 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:00:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 75AF28FC0A for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:00:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 31186 invoked by uid 0); 31 Aug 2011 03:00:28 -0000 Received: from 67.206.185.102 by rms-us002.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:00:26 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20110831030027.227890@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org,freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: pc4/GkJ5y2LxMxnMWTA2RJEiLyUmZQih Cc: Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:00:29 -0000 > I would be happy if such a page would see an update in shorter terms > like 11 years ... Fixing some ancient PRs would be nice also. (fixed, not just closed) From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 03:01:29 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D4F106566B for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:01:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EC3628FC1B for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:01:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 26537 invoked by uid 0); 31 Aug 2011 03:01:27 -0000 Received: from 67.206.185.102 by rms-us009.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:01:26 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20110831030127.227920@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org,freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: NZJof30xy1u0cEqNWWwn1NVsZ2hlNwr0 Cc: Subject: question for GPGPU users (was: PHORONIX: OpenCL, ...) X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 03:01:29 -0000 Question for GPGPU users: How important are denormalized floats to GPGPU? (when the number is so small that it can't be normalized with the smallest possible exponent) The graphics people don't care, just round it.  Do the GPGPU people care? (This is for the Open Graphics Project, which is designing a GPU that will be documented, and thus usable.) From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 04:21:31 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB4641065672; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:21:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrosehua@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F008FC0C; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iadx2 with SMTP id x2so450935iad.13 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:21:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=xXFx/QEomBl4L8/sGrnSI4j1xAuAk4Iw6P/Pb9OqyHU=; b=LXdnnzo+dV7JamxphaLnVsixBDuWXYgjZtMFHqgsWrnHbel5A+k57NHoY/gp06okam Tlxxe3rjxTDjtaE3OzPwFT2nuru+yF8i4yreWTGs/PAormSxFcLto21zPHztiXBoGhFo zYQUVPl4xGXoJY9VfVgNPUj7HaULdaeYWW0qM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.146.200 with SMTP id k8mr4101617icv.522.1314764462329; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.241.5 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:21:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E5D361F.6060800@FreeBSD.org> References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5D0430.9090606@FreeBSD.org> <4E5D361F.6060800@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:21:02 +0800 Message-ID: From: Paul Ambrose To: Andriy Gapon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "Hartmann, O." Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:21:31 -0000 I can help, I just changed my job and get more spare time. Currently I can help write doc and test. There is much documentation about DTrace ( thanks Sun), but none of these describes the technical details of FreeBSD DTrace implementation, so I think we can start with this. 1 write doc about what we have done. The kernel DTrace is quite stable, but compared to Solaris, what else do we miss, what Solaris has but we do not, whether we implement all the builtin var and function, if not, do we have other alternative?. I come across problems with DTrace, but I don't know whether it is a bug or has not been supported 2 write more examples about how to debug kernel with DTrace on FreeBSD, I think these example can let others know what we can do with DTrace. BTW, I am a Chinese and live in Chengdu, China, I can't have access to dtrace.what-creek.com because of GFW, so maybe I miss something. I started to use FreeBSD about 2.5 year ago, and learn FreeBSD kernel recently because of DTrace. I like it and I hope I can do something more 2011/8/31 Andriy Gapon > on 30/08/2011 18:39 Andriy Gapon said the following: > > 4. There is a missing developer/maintainer for DTrace on FreeBSD. > > I probably should clarify this point: it doesn't have to be *the* > maintainer, a > collective maintainer is also perfect. Thus, contributions are very > welcome. > > > Nevertheless the kernel DTrace is quite usable and useful for kernel > debugging. > > -- > Andriy Gapon > From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 04:23:17 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698371065676; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:23:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.kworr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93488FC15; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:23:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkat8 with SMTP id t8so504228bka.13 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SquyJlOMa8UvOZ0sRQmLllEhwc/XZm7akrcJHU6pLqg=; b=jQ1GN2TjKyJeyKM76PrCrd7mAjYdzDHWpSVk2SiABAsxBuHHE6DKn5+PiuyL4v7I/8 SjNkaf/Y05tCNGXz4qMCynCdPuSsYCINaGIE8rlTLbStCPQxMiiJxIHsIsBbX5umvh1K kpZgPG6Zlx+//PtXrmEUkAc11tyLTV7EXOrfc= Received: by 10.204.130.129 with SMTP id t1mr610225bks.231.1314764595631; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limbo.lan ([195.225.157.86]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i11sm89479bkw.4.2011.08.30.21.23.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 30 Aug 2011 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E5DB730.3070908@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 07:23:12 +0300 From: Volodymyr Kostyrko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110829 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sergey Kandaurov References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:25:07 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "Hartmann, O." , Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:23:17 -0000 30.08.2011 12:23, Sergey Kandaurov wrote: > [Taking random email.] > > I think we could merge the $subj web page with this one (which is > more actual, as of 7.0): http://www.freebsd.org/features.html > The pages serve different purposes. There's no point in elaborating about feature X if feature X support doesn't differ from other OS implementation. And we should focus on major differences, not just any other feature. Despite we are a company of enthusiasts most enthusiasts once in a lifetime come to the problem of explaining why this OS is better than other or why we shouldn't count on FreeBSD yet. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 06:15:39 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E8F1065672; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:15:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ambrosehua@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8B68FC13; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:15:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iadx2 with SMTP id x2so565309iad.13 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:15:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5LLzBJS2J5NGgA+hn+/weZ6vZkVPf+dQrl6bDBFMZfs=; b=a1snTWQkcKqD1ehc9m4VdhOspHXY+qhDhqlW/kYmsyoIqg8+gK74ElVt3fN4yYq1bf A2jiCgTpbmz3XsWr19u3PwLVBsyh8tzliJzJLS0O64nFBptpyIfoXqhl5UO6R+wT4Q4N 1kJAkPCXyP4bbhhhYXSIG9AJEnkV6nHDkU3AY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.146.200 with SMTP id k8mr4196554icv.522.1314771338435; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.241.5 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:15:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5D0430.9090606@FreeBSD.org> <4E5D361F.6060800@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:15:38 +0800 Message-ID: From: Paul Ambrose To: Craig Rodrigues Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "Hartmann, O." , Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 06:15:39 -0000 I heard of that news, but I didn't realize that web site was managed by John Birrell. Now, DTrace is not feature-complete and stable, I don't think it is suitable to http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/dtrace.html, but to http://wiki.freebsd.org/DTrace, and people can easily update it 2011/8/31 Craig Rodrigues > Hi, > > http://dtrace.what-creek.com no longer exists, because sadly, the > author of that web page (John Birrell) is no longer with us: > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2009-November/001284.html > > There are some other documentation pages available for DTrace on FreeBSD: > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/DTrace > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/dtrace.html > > If you have ideas for how to enhance this documentation, you should > submit your ideas. > The freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list is a good place to start. > > -- > Craig Rodrigues > rodrigc@crodrigues.org > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Paul Ambrose > wrote: > > BTW, I am a Chinese and live in Chengdu, China, I can't have access to > > dtrace.what-creek.com because of GFW, so maybe I miss something. I > started > > to use FreeBSD about 2.5 year ago, and learn FreeBSD kernel recently > because > > of DTrace. I like it and I hope I can do something more > From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 09:11:18 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94F2106564A; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 09:11:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9093C8FC0A; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 09:11:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1QygpI-0007JA-DO>; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:11:16 +0200 Received: from e178023043.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.23.43] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1QygpI-0007iR-Al>; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:11:16 +0200 Message-ID: <4E5DFAB4.4030308@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:11:16 +0200 From: "Hartmann, O." User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110825 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "K. Macy" References: <1314733660.22981.YahooMailClassic@web113503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5D5489.4070408@zedat.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 85.178.23.43 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , giffunip@tutopia.com, "b. f." , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 09:11:18 -0000 On 08/30/11 23:26, K. Macy wrote: >> But the lack of response and non-shown interests shows a undeobtly signal >> that freeBSD seems to be >> dead for the HPC community and this could be also an indication for the lack >> of CUDA support >> by nVidia, Why performing efforts if no one cares? A great chance seems to >> have passed by ... > I wouldn't read too much in to it. What was provided only fit a fairly > narrow niche. Nvidia won't build their libraries on freebsd until we > "prove the market" which is fairly hard to do when you have to jump > through hoops just to get it to run and need to have a linux > environment to build the apps. > > -Kip Isn't FreeBSD also a "niche"? oh From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 09:49:08 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516EA106564A; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 09:49:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yi0-f54.google.com (mail-yi0-f54.google.com [209.85.218.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DADC98FC0A; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 09:49:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yib19 with SMTP id 19so516790yib.13 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:49:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NFbXviRMuBYYlfGqmRTlEprL8ov/6GKkBy9YCpXUHjQ=; b=fquGmmPCE2SPyKfWxldUrBOkGKL3/J80L9xgnQyKJIWcXqqwtps44DvyjQ8vRCFBrL NFh0W8BQz1RhiVbpYAB/pI6T8Iex8DcGbiul+Ls1IZvzNX8Inb4DFlbk8YdqhhR9Hu0W BWtZ/tAi2rkSjZaCg4wd++Lsy7/umYSFndRD0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.141.9 with SMTP id o9mr132050ybd.258.1314784147025; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.150.145.21 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 02:49:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E5DFAB4.4030308@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <1314733660.22981.YahooMailClassic@web113503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4E5D5489.4070408@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5DFAB4.4030308@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:49:06 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: QhIBEADYd-ZaXigUljAPyoF5gKQ Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: "Hartmann, O." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , giffunip@tutopia.com, "K. Macy" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "b. f." Subject: Re: PHORONIX: OpenCL, GLSL Back-End For LLVM May Soon Open Up X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 09:49:08 -0000 Guys (; Girls; small fuzzy creatures); We can talk about this forever, or someone can go over the existing 32 bit CUDA stuff in a 32 bit Linuxolator, get it all going, document it, and post it or all to use. Which do you think is going to be more productive? Adrian From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 31 05:32:12 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12637106564A; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:32:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from crodr001@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f54.google.com (mail-bw0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6114D8FC17; Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:32:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkat8 with SMTP id t8so577366bka.13 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:32:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Y+aVvpUdKi0JSJEbfqa/Pc0QjxwsFwfhPPxdlTFSObc=; b=dtLcWiJamcmXx38+O9ASMPwwxSVNVpq96UIiqRlKuHey+9OcL+GZyy4ZC09l5+W9+d NJFj7IX1PIcWvZAmqAsNLF3Ciw7ABNxcJKuHTBQr2QlYrJnCfSsgLNTfTLaG43AlfTnv fnfFTdKH/bs3I+guwIR1Wk1Fc/k0tO7OB5DbA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.6.201 with SMTP id a9mr240324bka.335.1314767104571; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: crodr001@gmail.com Received: by 10.204.40.205 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:05:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4E5941D6.9090106@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5BEF65.2010502@gmail.com> <201108300929.51810.hselasky@c2i.net> <4E5CA9BE.2020005@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4E5D0430.9090606@FreeBSD.org> <4E5D361F.6060800@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:05:04 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: SYNJv8gj5mNvBUwQ19TGWFC1LIQ Message-ID: From: Craig Rodrigues To: Paul Ambrose Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:03:57 +0000 Cc: "freebsd-performance@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "Hartmann, O." , Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: http://www.freebsd.org/marketing/os-comparison.html X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 05:32:12 -0000 Hi, http://dtrace.what-creek.com no longer exists, because sadly, the author of that web page (John Birrell) is no longer with us: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2009-November/001284.html There are some other documentation pages available for DTrace on FreeBSD: http://wiki.freebsd.org/DTrace http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/dtrace.html If you have ideas for how to enhance this documentation, you should submit your ideas. The freebsd-doc@freebsd.org mailing list is a good place to start. -- Craig Rodrigues rodrigc@crodrigues.org On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Paul Ambrose wrote: > BTW, I am a Chinese and live in Chengdu, China, I can't have access to > dtrace.what-creek.com because of GFW, so maybe I miss something. I started > to use FreeBSD about 2.5 year ago, and learn FreeBSD kernel recently because > of DTrace. I like it and I hope I can do something more