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Date:      Sat, 12 Mar 2011 18:00:40 -0600
From:      Ade Lovett <ade@FreeBSD.org>
To:        bf1783@gmail.com
Cc:        FreeBSD Ports <freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org>
Subject:   Re: [HEADS UP] GNU make 3.82
Message-ID:  <9352461C-9DEA-4778-8FAF-B60E22A4A7AB@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=n5n8Q%2BRkEH2EBtu0oVdTCC_ikaGdMO10Aoyuj@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <AANLkTi=n5n8Q%2BRkEH2EBtu0oVdTCC_ikaGdMO10Aoyuj@mail.gmail.com>

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On Mar 12, 2011, at 17:22 , b. f. wrote:

>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 09:14:50PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote:
>>> There are way too many things happening "in private" around here and
>>> the only way to solve that problem is to open the doors.
>>=20
>> Would you please offer examples of decisions that you feel that way =
about?
>=20
> We need not look any farther than this episode to see an example of
> how things could have been handled better.  I don't think that the
> course of action that was ultimately adopted was unreasonable, but did
> we have to wait from the 8 October, when I filed
> ports/151312

I quote from the PR log:

  State-Changed-From-To: open->suspended
  State-Changed-By: ade
  State-Changed-When: Fri Oct 8 16:40:29 UTC 2010
  State-Changed-Why:
  gnu make 3.81 -> 3.82 is, sadly, exceptionally non-trivial.  A number =
of
  features present in releases prior to 3.82 are technically "wrong", =
and
  this release has corrected them.  A _lot_ of stuff breaks.  It will be
  looked at, but don't hold your breath.

Plenty of other stuff was happening in autotools-land at the time.  We =
had already run a previous preliminary analysis of gmake 3.81->3.82 and =
it was _not_ pretty.

That update to the PR took just a little under 2 hours from initial =
submission.  Suggesting that it took until March 11th is disingenuous at =
_best_

> to learn what was actually broken by the change, so that we could
> begin to fix it?

This requires multiple -exp runs.  A number of ports that failed with =
3.81->3.82 have a non-trivial number of ports that depend on them.  =
Simply taking the first set of breakage does _not_ present the entire =
picture.  Short term hacks, such as allowing those ports to build with =
3.81 are _required_ in order to fully understand the depth of the =
situation.

Infrastructure work is a painful experience.  Throwing out a PR with =
"exp-run probably desirable" is not particularly useful, and shows a =
certain naivety when it comes to such wide-ranging changes.  It is a =
highly iterative procedure, requiring many man- and cpu-hours of work.  =
Those of us that do it may not be doing the best possible job, but =
there's a distinct lack of volunteers to actually run the process.   =
Behind closed doors, and in the Cabal Club, of course.

*sigh*

-aDe




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