From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 11 19:33:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A7D106566C for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:33:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dru.lavigne@att.net) Received: from nm6-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm6-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D9248FC26 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:33:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.44.106] by nm6.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2012 19:33:25 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.73] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2012 19:33:25 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1010.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jun 2012 19:33:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 717477.22036.bm@omp1010.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 37779 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2012 19:33:25 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1339443204; bh=wbBvoR79tP0XKZ25uc49Sox7hZs04ajaVWmlIoo4WRI=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3KkzNSvRpGTQ1wlWpyf1kXtk+QhljSKTBJdF8/IPFQMF5kxBjVKzlIuAMSpSHfYO1NIYStrL1AZUmp2im34Wu0jczMXe1YSw5ykbujakjEK/NWoHO3Gca/0UL4lmNXvkOXA8zsK0nWzACDshwhoXgqCM/SYgkUgC5NnDVH4Iyrg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WUyD9pbOg7HJtiyzu0KE8BpVPYDjGxVmw2bLaKSppyf+K3VaU8fAvk9bTTX+waxCcMl1nthZnQZNQ/nL0eKArMrv1JNF5g2hWpglj3oS+6nYFd/Eta0f6vpSvJAgeGPBvQHdicNFyrkvPG0KaQGtjYVzNNGGJC1HZj2Y7dRJ5sw=; X-YMail-OSG: Ni_XUPUVM1m8BbgUnR8WctpdCzSSe1mMXCpzPwMUTHlvS36 gWx.aOFiYwHPI_fBArJzL4NBeyvd4bUrqpV_0EOT9XV_itYbW1ZBmKL3oyiJ .2KrFTNeGXdB8aHdHwS8z8oUgGiJYkg.KVXPhrp4cgQXB5Ew4Mm8FLL3m5.s dGZGGscX.RJrnz9Upz20u9rWR1dmEFSKUwJ65aROpkZRrX2RV6eKrDV5a6MA C.jAROLvGPcwAe87PNjUEBUsm_Kra9fWy6aFiIgj79Lx.Az9m.IwPrV6FSAo C2zxynCHM04e6n7xnjeZYawG.wxbWggQAglKYlPj0nv2u2wxZElCIpFwqd0D mMYXgFwxY4Yd1KiGs8S_mg9smHBhWuWTLA7bqb6FKFW5LSYEkkTcvdtyxMng dTwBADy5gXu6lJ28_dx32tAHpWdrSOtYINman9VpjotXGFg8iJYjgZhdyVWm FEwfrSU1ARIv8TKjmyGVA1f9XZ_aefBA1f2pllGxQF6ik4.khV.wpjwtQoIt saz_am.T0Lohi2kA- Received: from [99.98.82.135] by web181207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:33:24 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/15.0.6 YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 Message-ID: <1339443204.25181.YahooMailClassic@web181207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 12:33:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Dru Lavigne To: Petrus , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:33:26 -0000 > Hello,=0A> I'm currently planning on taking the BSD Association=0A> certi= fication, as described here.=A0 (http://www.bsdcertification.org/)=0A> =0A>= Although I am primarily doing so for personal, rather than=0A> economic re= asons, I did want to ask whether or not it=0A> possibly *would* add to a re= sume, in the opinions of people=0A> here.=A0 As much as I've loved using Fr= eeBSD myself, I've=0A> been looking for trend and market share numbers on t= he Web=0A> recently, and what I've found has been fairly depressing;=0A> th= e indication usually seems to be a gradual, long term=0A> decline of the th= ree major BSDs, with virtually all UNIX=0A> market share moving in the dire= ction of Debian Linux.=A0=0A> With that said, I've also noticed that FreeBS= D is still=0A> visible on Netcraft's list of the most reliable ISPs.=0A> = =0A> I consider this tragic, because after close to 15 years of=0A> at leas= t intermittent use of both systems, I have developed=0A> a belief that Free= BSD is vastly technically superior to any=0A> form of Linux that I have use= d, including Debian.=0A> =0A> So I wanted to ask; how possible is it still,= to become=0A> gainfully employed as a BSD administrator?=A0 Once I have=0A= > the BSD certification, will it be necessary to concede to=0A> reality, an= d also seek certification in Linux as well?=A0=0A> I have long considered t= hat idea, but the problem is that=0A> Linux training generally costs a mini= mum of $2,000, and I do=0A> not have that type of money available.=0A=0A=0A= Disclaimer: I'm the current chair of the BSD certification group (BSDCG).= =0A=0AThe BSDCG gets requests quite often from employers who are looking fo= r admins with BSD skills. We refer them to our BSDA certified linked in gro= up as its members are all BSDA certified. There is also a linkedin group fo= r those interested in BSD certification which is a good resource for networ= king with other admins who are interested in BSD.=0A=0AWe have also receive= d several reports back from certificants indicating that the reason why the= y were hired over someone else was because they were BSDA certified.=0A=0AI= wrote an article for the February issue of BSD Mag (available for free dow= nload from bsdmag.org) that describes why one would want to be BSD certifie= d, even if not motivated by economic reasons or even if one is already happ= ily employed.=0A=0ABottom line, if you're interested in system administrati= on, the more Unix-like skills that you can get, the better. A Linux certifi= cation will only provide a subset of these skills. Having both Linux and BS= D certification provides a fuller skillset.=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0ADru=0A From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 02:37:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8D7106566C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 02:37:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E9F88FC1A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 02:37:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so6528622dad.13 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:37:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wU4WVCjFLHYHW/+t/9CFxfFke/+KWsoZ/T/EYO7YYCQ=; b=cL0XvtSxeyw97nspUvN7f/ALpXSxhABhKng73eI2FHRqXtCcWSe7WePZF1/u7Rh0DG g36+1fKmP1QKbpSlgFXBaEY3im8XUJxSOc+d/dQaUwKh9TntPjngPEH+gS81Jk8L/XrS mkwq3icxW3pjsWCh94cypOnMrjaSHL1ubtorJ4B6x4Z7HO4gFqWYrUSigKgEBpzT/eJF hI3iXy24uIDlxfz4BmWN4h2zn1Y35YNwXBSfwV3kPG7muki1M8l+fhOP7b9EXn9WKNe4 I02Ff6/5Sx/dPjznLVKgNS0jGtM8cfei2lFfRo3xjEN2bl9Ml+bK7xvSbbHuxDRH8Cp+ tRIA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.195.102 with SMTP id id6mr32980077pbc.120.1339468637573; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.6.201 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:37:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1339443204.25181.YahooMailClassic@web181207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1339443204.25181.YahooMailClassic@web181207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:37:17 -0400 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: Dru Lavigne Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 02:37:18 -0000 I'm curious. When will the examination cover other architectures such as POWER/PowerPC, SPARC, and ARM? Having an exam for such architectures would get the BSDs recognition as a reliable system with the Power group. Support for ARM in the exam could increase the use of the BSDs in embedded devices; and, the same is also true for certain Power architectures. I am aware that the standard architecture being used is i386 and amd64. I am also aware that development is taking place on the architectures mentioned. On 6/11/12, Dru Lavigne wrote: >> Hello, >> I'm currently planning on taking the BSD Association >> certification, as described here.=A0 (http://www.bsdcertification.org/) >> >> Although I am primarily doing so for personal, rather than >> economic reasons, I did want to ask whether or not it >> possibly *would* add to a resume, in the opinions of people >> here.=A0 As much as I've loved using FreeBSD myself, I've >> been looking for trend and market share numbers on the Web >> recently, and what I've found has been fairly depressing; >> the indication usually seems to be a gradual, long term >> decline of the three major BSDs, with virtually all UNIX >> market share moving in the direction of Debian Linux. >> With that said, I've also noticed that FreeBSD is still >> visible on Netcraft's list of the most reliable ISPs. >> >> I consider this tragic, because after close to 15 years of >> at least intermittent use of both systems, I have developed >> a belief that FreeBSD is vastly technically superior to any >> form of Linux that I have used, including Debian. >> >> So I wanted to ask; how possible is it still, to become >> gainfully employed as a BSD administrator?=A0 Once I have >> the BSD certification, will it be necessary to concede to >> reality, and also seek certification in Linux as well? >> I have long considered that idea, but the problem is that >> Linux training generally costs a minimum of $2,000, and I do >> not have that type of money available. > > > Disclaimer: I'm the current chair of the BSD certification group (BSDCG). > > The BSDCG gets requests quite often from employers who are looking for > admins with BSD skills. We refer them to our BSDA certified linked in gro= up > as its members are all BSDA certified. There is also a linkedin group for > those interested in BSD certification which is a good resource for > networking with other admins who are interested in BSD. > > We have also received several reports back from certificants indicating t= hat > the reason why they were hired over someone else was because they were BS= DA > certified. > > I wrote an article for the February issue of BSD Mag (available for free > download from bsdmag.org) that describes why one would want to be BSD > certified, even if not motivated by economic reasons or even if one is > already happily employed. > > Bottom line, if you're interested in system administration, the more > Unix-like skills that you can get, the better. A Linux certification will > only provide a subset of these skills. Having both Linux and BSD > certification provides a fuller skillset. > > Cheers, > > Dru > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 07:22:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6491065677 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:22:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB218FC1F for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:22:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cpc11-cwma8-2-0-cust430.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com [82.11.219.175]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5C7MStP089827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:22:32 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <1339443204.25181.YahooMailClassic@web181207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:22:24 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1339443204.25181.YahooMailClassic@web181207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> To: Dru Lavigne X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:22:36 -0000 Hi Dru, On 11 Jun 2012, at 20:33, Dru Lavigne wrote: > The BSDCG gets requests quite often from employers who are looking for = admins with BSD skills. We refer them to our BSDA certified linked in = group as its members are all BSDA certified. There is also a linkedin = group for those interested in BSD certification which is a good resource = for networking with other admins who are interested in BSD. Do we currently have any references to or even mentions of this on the = freebsd.org web site? And are there any more open alternatives to = LinkedIn? It would be great if we could host job adverts for FreeBSD = admins and developers somewhere easy to find from the main site, even if = it's not actually part of the site. David= From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 07:58:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15991065678 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:58:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869618FC1E for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:58:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SeLzh-0003zo-Ex for freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:58:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:58:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1339487909457-5717744.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4FCFBAD5.1030308@tpg.com.au> <1339443204.25181.YahooMailClassic@web181207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 07:58:30 -0000 1. I believe that exam is architecture-neutral. 2. I fail to see specific administrative skills needed for ARM (especially*), PowerPC and SPARC. * BSDCG is not "how to build embedded system" exam, the more- course. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Request-for-advice-tp5715922p5717744.html Sent from the freebsd-advocacy mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 17:16:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE0F106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dru.lavigne@att.net) Received: from nm23.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm23.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.91.93]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B59C8FC08 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:16:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.91.63] by nm23.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 17:16:52 -0000 Received: from [68.142.194.244] by tm3.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 17:16:52 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.125] by t2.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 17:16:52 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1030.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 17:16:52 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 506966.23662.bm@omp1030.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 6054 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jun 2012 17:16:52 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1339521412; bh=YtjqjMVvN861ym9K3oVm4AdbGGPLyFJa3/OIAcSzTlo=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=vb2Qc1K+EoIw1tYF3YwC7wyst5kNZPAmvryEFD0PKrmkiuDwkHW2WuMiA7H3kYk08wTAEzVQVbLyN4ixdwgmFmSil2SUWDF0oDwUIRwld8DDPAlA4suLwD9cv7qfMr9tgt+MDacxMwsDJJ4wr69izVtb1W+HT3gMXl/67xaD84M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=HxT0k9XQty0hUmSr3cc556pVxicdvm2BqoSrlF6ECgvLs13ACbul+03iXo+h8zzhvwGki4LiohH205TQ02W5xTmke1lwdOBaaNfkROKJ/IiKjKVt+L1A6LWKslS6371AAhZVbSXFwjuKNYMem6UC8DhTiEQRJZ6g/WapBYMU6jc=; X-YMail-OSG: du_bg_0VM1ly9VPduvFsDESH5niLKiEgEban1VnzbPpGpCl rNIxjvsTZq_2zNE7mmv2H0t6K86VVUjG0n6f3zeeA4u5BHP3Q4sm1WIp2Hzj XbLBd0J0GIOX1GTdjxLZfj2jNPGtro9bkaOZ.Jv_T.yNQf8aQd3kxzTNx3kq 7sxoVF8rTg3K4gdn7pNEbmFoBbFMp9FvZAdVt5P93fuaKhq54vKtwEDqsslt L5mX3husXaGWE8YY0CvNDXh55PR.GYeSYMBrA1ehBk5p_3uxYm35QszWHDod CCMuM2kmKyXqfhV8iVCDRA0BjW2Vtce7B7ftm8s3Zbsa96S0_BsJKBsHYvqY 9SSjdlTSt60IkA3GEu4D0xb96TiHm2xjI_7bA2z9M0CVcSkBSEH1y5LAEZ57 RjsmSq09Dgx5dReLdphr06IxI2oF5fdZR Received: from [99.98.82.135] by web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:16:51 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/15.0.5 YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 Message-ID: <1339521411.94879.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:16:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Dru Lavigne To: Super Bisquit In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:16:58 -0000 > I'm curious. When will the > examination cover other architectures such > as POWER/PowerPC, SPARC, and ARM? > Having an exam for such architectures would get the BSDs > recognition > as a reliable system with the Power group. Support for ARM > in the exam > could increase the use of the BSDs in embedded devices; and, > the same > is also true for certain Power architectures. > > I am aware that the standard architecture being used is i386 > and > amd64. I am also aware that development is taking place on > the > architectures mentioned. The BSDA exam is for system administration, not development. Cheers, Dru From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 22:06:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20E2F1065672 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:06:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dru.lavigne@att.net) Received: from nm18.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (nm18.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [98.139.52.215]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9282E8FC0A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:06:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.52.197] by nm18.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 22:06:38 -0000 Received: from [209.191.108.96] by tm10.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 22:06:37 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.101] by t3.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 22:06:37 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1006.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 22:06:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 876087.92708.bm@omp1006.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 81990 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jun 2012 22:06:37 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1339538797; bh=t+n+EJYvyxHcRQlgWT3ViUuH1OpBRU4hYVRw8S3QN6k=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PcU7Uef6rfKeyJmn1Q6e2EVwskREGhHBYDwtbN0n2BJsDVVGNlE5o9PwQJimO1I/hy28nYL1sY1MsApWnqTcBj6CQ0p1LWrF0nSB9Uzedidn6jcE0Rzcu+0E9455eRWqMorYlfbhP6MQC7x7nFKjFV2VaRI7J6INFlRukuxi3Uw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=HOeoTF48PMT9Yu+xQBntf+jOHWrKdwixO4/JZGMqh/TY8BkbrB28cH4pqQtwG2tvEWXkSQhjP2FKlfG0ygXU9NkKPvMFgTbGI4US+8MuouGaTUhuQUgoOLMv+wrXkAGaNvBkkY5OC9ZNRejUkCe02jBI/iKddoD2FgpXRcGWDfY=; X-YMail-OSG: zIDk4CUVM1niHToiAgo1Zt_ytUtpft4hMJLv7zkj8wMqdce dtMc5v7ZgZc69NYgwIy3w.RJh_U57c0UaJdyz4x2QmCjetHH8TicmxF.olXC yvz4S6lbPThBGKAEjiUoLNEmQV_LtLPutdBmeGJ9.Aedl.y4wkeO.8u_xUo1 nCE6N.KobBC3prSrOyxJ_RN4Bed6fomhOXMDToHT_71q9WOC9_63sClT86zS UraESHHJsLDXVE84QB7pU9bM9a_9LF5yFQGWDjNH0ih1_nZlM7BrJm1irP09 w9ZSdXQBDl.IMhZl5NDtwkYXSnZRlt2TX21_sVNy.o5zciTeCOHr6KzubiTV eU55ZJFdEkerTx.NIhXKO2x5DEoYnhtDcZb5zkJQNUqyOUmZS7eTbENEGqSV 0UnHONwd2MwvOCaC4LSGXtA8AhFiulypT Received: from [99.98.82.135] by web181216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:06:37 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/15.0.6 YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 Message-ID: <1339538797.70908.YahooMailClassic@web181216.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:06:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Dru Lavigne To: Super Bisquit , Jared Barneck MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:06:39 -0000 >>The BSDA exam is for system administration, not development.=0A=0A>Out of= curiosity, is there a market for a FreeBSD Developer cert?=A0=0A=0A=0AWe h= ave not done an analysis to see if there is a market. There has been intere= st since we started the program, which came as a surprise to us seeing that= an open source developer can prove their skills by pointing to the code th= at they have contributed. Whereas, there really isn't a way for a system ad= ministrator to point to their body of work or for someone starting in the s= ystem administration field to prove that they do indeed possess the technic= al skills required for the job.=0A=0AWhen putting together the exam, we wor= k with employers to determine which skills are needed on the job and use th= at information as the blueprint for putting together the exam's questions.= =0A=0ACheers,=0A=0ADru =0A=0A=0A=0A From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 21:15:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D55106566C for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:15:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rhyous@yahoo.com) Received: from nm8.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com (nm8.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com [98.139.52.205]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B71B98FC08 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:15:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.52.194] by nm8.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 21:15:36 -0000 Received: from [98.139.52.165] by tm7.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 21:15:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1048.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2012 21:15:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 366761.76482.bm@omp1048.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 68392 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jun 2012 21:15:35 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1339535735; bh=aQgsQWNdYaLeADTcqcmT+pEIOG3U+JAZYBTc2ukOocc=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=sY5RmGwAVlgvrmMVZHa282BgBJy6Z2UwMG5hs3sEjxjz+Em0aoR6HaXReK8U2Y64mT8H39OChQCMkxgnBBd5xO58DGmBIabuQO3DgumF/mebPxh/5aEYdHILBv3lw4nYguuf4rYs+jWEqoR3OknU272N9d7Tha10Xpt7B47sbUk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=A7RbrClAciqU2so+1YVnUHmecdfsG+840EDby1Smu0mVTVDOt2IL1XhXnLkCqDm3daDnHl3LbqaDAbfFPeY6L8uisjZgyD0JQ5oV8wW2JUxcp9bemz8upQyLx6ASlSwO5NMNk6xSlme5b1sQzsVREfXrjSAHmslepUeXEYiw2Qs=; X-YMail-OSG: 01cETMcVM1ntpI1v53KqbhRnneVQjT_zRgH6q9uZKBi7.vy QmNtM4TTHZjx4SwU_1AdWX0iBhmszD1D4SSi3mikattOpxVFLw48MHxK5_WR ng_2ayLj1MtPW58tGcnjgIroin_73hfJ.ZuTULDdLH4mmt3SV2xtXqMLNvjU 1SKQzIqEyEt7XMOjeekTo4iQdP4r289pK9EseGP4Vp2foso3WHmos0rKFzvt GZ8zBBJK138fc1iXhneOFzn2I1EJNBFfdA7tF8zZ7Ggo52tBNC3oJY7cAs52 1_9uELRGHZwXHPlVuFPLU8g5tjiiuQomEKASYLERX37DAknvhWKgzDvPWHkr LbncX4VOFzm4shQn.sWGji1iO9VgresKxWPc72eEOFLIS6G7z74Nh8BrLZe4 que6A3OEco_cbukz5plMg1DXj1JhOr7YzCinCSdhwmsCyOU7RY3q7dd2ngbs oes.PfXPjKmPUS3YR0CjA Received: from [198.169.189.225] by web130203.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:15:35 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.118.349524 References: <1339521411.94879.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1339535735.68084.YahooMailNeo@web130203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:15:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jared Barneck To: Dru Lavigne , Super Bisquit In-Reply-To: <1339521411.94879.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:39:34 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Jared Barneck List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:15:37 -0000 > I'm curious. When will the=0A>> examination cover other architectures suc= h=0A>> as POWER/PowerPC, SPARC, and ARM?=0A>> Having an exam for such archi= tectures would get the BSDs=0A>> recognition=0A>> as a reliable system with= the Power group. Support for ARM=0A>> in the exam=0A>> could increase the = use of the BSDs in embedded devices; and,=0A>> the same=0A>> is also true f= or certain Power architectures.=0A>> =0AI am not sure if having a certifica= tion itself brings recognition. I used to believe that, but reality proved = otherwise. =A0I think we need a product to bring recognition.=A0=0A=0AI thi= nk we need to advertise FreeBSD to embedded, point-of-sale (POS), or applia= nce systems manufactures and get a lot more users and business on our side = first.=A0=0A=0AOr you could start a company that uses FreeBSD on such syste= ms and see if you can make it...=0A=0A=0A> I am aware that the standard arc= hitecture being used is i386=0A>> and=0A>> amd64. I am also aware that deve= lopment is taking place on=0A>> the=0A>> architectures mentioned.=0A>=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A>The BSDA exam is for system administration, not development.=0A= Out of curiosity, is there a market for a FreeBSD Developer cert?=A0=0A=0AC= heers,=0A>=0A>=0A>Dru=0A>=0A> From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 22:41:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87347106564A for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:41:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382B18FC17 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:41:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust445.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com [86.26.13.190]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5CMf8TT092713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:41:09 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <1339535735.68084.YahooMailNeo@web130203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:41:01 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <023FA185-4A59-4B1A-AF23-1471D9585BCF@FreeBSD.org> References: <1339521411.94879.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1339535735.68084.YahooMailNeo@web130203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Jared Barneck X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:41:17 -0000 On 12 Jun 2012, at 22:15, Jared Barneck wrote: > Or you could start a company that uses FreeBSD on such systems and see = if you can make it... Someone did: http://semihalf.com/ David= From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jun 12 22:49:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94BF106566B for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:49:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24068FC17 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:49:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so11540674obc.13 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:49:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gNWcj2pb3dNp+JPmkqgQNEmA66cUk+mEnK7ygl/cVIM=; b=TLc0CLhElNLFxgPwtmWHTUqVeACfS3Uhh/ihKb+O+fzHNxfnVaydIBDxynYfPiiNuV XiYEaVb3T8H5GYEkG8w1PWs5uMOnvBx6y0qujoVG0o3ki8VY4si7i5R2pbohAguzIxJv FvdrkgXjR0cJDHJKuZO8ej/t89TMCaEuuO/EY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=gNWcj2pb3dNp+JPmkqgQNEmA66cUk+mEnK7ygl/cVIM=; b=GYLtUCVzGea83kFIHNGjHNXkmIpuclT/OI0hPsp9GPW/2No7Uiqby69XsbOuLKdBfz FF0dso9MAljwQLoJ4lDt/xnEi6VZOZp79HNGIV1dQoAwEpmnaSGmFNcZZ3CmHHTYDjL7 Y3Y9/tGCxv1bBjn3ZAtWBjdVuXfM50KMBKnsYiBtP98yt95tDTlJmpUqrYCz2BFcOTz8 ofoybg6bG3sVjEtQWUc7trFwBSPSpTtG34kXnksOepsRDMV/3WVQRwScvmeCS77l0DnJ 8q6c3f1DepI2fIW0wUoTD6ZZPXT+0ezxQ8S9oWUwZCF1+IPAIQY+Hgo67Aqnz3Dc2Zen 0Ywg== Received: by 10.60.170.38 with SMTP id aj6mr22171495oec.51.1339541369949; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:49:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.204.69 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:48:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1339535735.68084.YahooMailNeo@web130203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1339521411.94879.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1339535735.68084.YahooMailNeo@web130203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Eitan Adler Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:48:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jared Barneck Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk2gvWcGND3Mn/5aGBjGCVjaX5w1jQ021fz/EgFeM3dN3xZIKulHSZEpQwXae1Iv1zsdWo4 Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:49:31 -0000 On 12 June 2012 14:15, Jared Barneck wrote: >> I'm curious. When will the >>> examination cover other architectures such >>> as POWER/PowerPC, SPARC, and ARM? >>> Having an exam for such architectures would get the BSDs >>> recognition >>> as a reliable system with the Power group. Support for ARM >>> in the exam >>> could increase the use of the BSDs in embedded devices; and, >>> the same >>> is also true for certain Power architectures. >>> > I am not sure if having a certification itself brings recognition. I used= to believe that, but reality proved otherwise. =C2=A0I think we need a pro= duct to bring recognition. we don't just need a certificate, or a product, or any one thing. We need an ecosystem that encourages use and contribution. --=20 Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 14 16:02:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC24106566B for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:02:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from superbisquit@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f54.google.com (mail-pz0-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08368FC19 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:02:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadv36 with SMTP id v36so2892389dad.13 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=7B9NHILHbRnTMA5jSfkKuSTdgtlG3yBgtt8fKYpdnYw=; b=tyRc7pmocVHPJYDBkvCrgPsorqL3C+8uR41M5mvx+9LPS2NwIi9FsFN3YYZjcE+BRQ Vp/Px5J6MjyM6T3Bk2W2g4qu6tUbSOrIXbgmhVtI8YAq10pYNtIrzlmFs+OM3N7B7CNk VjdisUBL74Thqg6/SC64ubBASsPLUldcCW2zwP/oQcbwrIIHx/5mE7jFoU9BnE0XBO6d svL58x2Qvk0t1R1csTX4NnlvEoS+iIs9Yi9KlTPa+gF7VOGSUA8JK/bdP7hYQuAyM2FE 9Z524ki4TQeStIHtvZmXYbGRDMeFdIKoJh2f/S6cGsdnabex0ce1j9/2+M7R/oQBzqUt XreQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.195.102 with SMTP id id6mr9326248pbc.120.1339689769118; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.6.201 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:02:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1339521411.94879.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1339521411.94879.YahooMailClassic@web181205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:02:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Super Bisquit To: Dru Lavigne , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Re: Request for advice X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:02:49 -0000 On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Dru Lavigne wrote: > >> I'm curious. When will the >> examination cover other architectures such >> as POWER/PowerPC, SPARC, and ARM? >> Having an exam for such architectures would get the BSDs >> recognition >> as a reliable system with the Power group. Support for ARM >> in the exam >> could increase the use of the BSDs in embedded devices; and, >> the same >> is also true for certain Power architectures. >> >> I am aware that the standard architecture being used is i386 >> and >> amd64. I am also aware that development is taking place on >> the >> architectures mentioned. > > > The BSDA exam is for system administration, not development. > > Cheers, > > Dru Such systems require that the administrator know Forth or other commands for the boot loader. These commands are also needed for accessing different settings prior to booting the OS. On POWER/PowerPC systems, booting a different installation requires the person to know the exact partition because the boot loader will look for the first available UFS2 partition. If nothing else, such should be added for those who wish to administer or do administer such systems. It can be added as an optional section. From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jun 15 22:28:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8017D106564A for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:28:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unix.hacker@comcast.net) Received: from qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.96]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F2F18FC15 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:28:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.90]) by qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id NkE71j0021wpRvQ59mUrYt; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:28:51 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.2] ([68.43.224.227]) by omta18.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id NmUq1j0124uzdYs3emUrLw; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:28:51 +0000 Message-ID: <4FDBB723.6010205@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:28:51 -0400 From: Allen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: <642DB73D-7DCA-4E6C-838B-7D9B23B3E310@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <642DB73D-7DCA-4E6C-838B-7D9B23B3E310@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 22:28:52 -0000 On 5/31/2012 4:58 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > Thanks to all who replied, both on and off list. I've attempted to > distill the replies that I got into a coherent summary. I've put the > draft on the wiki here: > http://wiki.freebsd.org/WhyUseFreeBSD > > Feedback welcome! I thought it was nice :) I personally have liked the way that both FreeBSD and Slackware Linux have handled the Advocacy of the OS compared to some others. Not sure why, I just do. But it's nice to have this as well, because it's one thing to wear a FreeBSD tee shirt under a FreeBSD hoodie while wearing FreeBSD Boxers and using a Laptop covered in BSD stickers (Yea, I've done this), but it's probably easiest when someone asks why you use it, to simply say "Well, read this and see if you'd like it too, and it's free so you don't have to pay if you don't want to, and you can install it very easily, and configure every single aspect of it" I think we all have our reasons that we use it, and it's nice to see them kind of distilled into one place where you can send someone to look, or, just see what other people are using it with, and why, and what for, and maybe even get new ideas of your own. For whatever it's worth; GREAT job! -Allen / gore From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 02:55:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C948D106564A for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 02:55:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jozef.baum@haus-mittenwald.de) Received: from dd18534.kasserver.com (dd18534.kasserver.com [85.13.139.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E8E68FC08 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 02:55:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Notebook2 (p4FE83918.dip.t-dialin.net [79.232.57.24]) by dd18534.kasserver.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 55CC92020041; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 04:55:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <823413316ABC49CDB867E054CACD02DB@Notebook2> From: "Jozef Baum" To: "Allen" , References: <642DB73D-7DCA-4E6C-838B-7D9B23B3E310@FreeBSD.org> <4FDBB723.6010205@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <4FDBB723.6010205@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 04:55:19 +0200 Organization: Privatperson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8050.1202 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8050.1202 Cc: Subject: AW: Why Are You Using FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Jozef Baum List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 02:55:28 -0000 I prefer FreeBSD for 4 reasons: - FreeBSD has true Unix roots, it's not just a new implementation of Unix, like Linux. - FreeBSD is a complete operating system, not just a kernel with third party utilities, like Linux. - FreeBSD has a development concept which guarantees a much more homogeneous quality of the overall system than Linux. - FreeBSD has a license agreement which offers much more freedom than the GPL, which applies to Linux. However, there is much more documentatíon availabe to start with Linux than with FreeBSD. The problem of FreeBSD is not its technical quality, but the complete lack of any efficient marketing. FreeBSD people seem to think that, because FreeBSD is a superior product, people will use it. However, society doesn't work this way. FreeBSD has to convince users of its benefits they can appreciate (not extremely technical onces), and to make the transition to FreeBSD as easy and smooth as possible for them. This is definitely not something that can be done by people with a sticker "Intel inside" on their back, and who take it for granted that newcomers to FreeBSD know UNIX. At present, FreeBSD positions itself as a system to which Linux user can switch. FreeBSD should position itself as the best product for newcomers to the UNIX-world. -------------------------------------------------- Von: "Allen" Datum: Samstag, 16. Juni 2012 00:28 An: Betreff: Re: Why Are You Using FreeBSD? > On 5/31/2012 4:58 AM, David Chisnall wrote: >> Thanks to all who replied, both on and off list. I've attempted to >> distill the replies that I got into a coherent summary. I've put the >> draft on the wiki here: >> http://wiki.freebsd.org/WhyUseFreeBSD >> >> Feedback welcome! > > I thought it was nice :) I personally have liked the way that both > FreeBSD and Slackware Linux have handled the Advocacy of the OS compared > to some others. Not sure why, I just do. > > But it's nice to have this as well, because it's one thing to wear a > FreeBSD tee shirt under a FreeBSD hoodie while wearing FreeBSD Boxers > and using a Laptop covered in BSD stickers (Yea, I've done this), but > it's probably easiest when someone asks why you use it, to simply say > "Well, read this and see if you'd like it too, and it's free so you > don't have to pay if you don't want to, and you can install it very > easily, and configure every single aspect of it" > > I think we all have our reasons that we use it, and it's nice to see > them kind of distilled into one place where you can send someone to > look, or, just see what other people are using it with, and why, and > what for, and maybe even get new ideas of your own. > > For whatever it's worth; GREAT job! > > -Allen / gore > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 16 14:34:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6001065673 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:34:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5E058FC16 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:34:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p57BCFED3.dip.t-dialin.net [87.188.254.211]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q5GEYB8N034304 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:34:12 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q5GEXXO6072247 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:33:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q5GEXVhI041125 for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:33:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201206161433.q5GEXVhI041125@fire.js.berklix.net> To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Sat, 16 Jun 2012 04:55:19 +0200." <823413316ABC49CDB867E054CACD02DB@Notebook2> Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:33:31 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Subject: Re: AW: Why Are You Using FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:34:44 -0000 > FreeBSD should position itself as the best product for newcomers to the > UNIX-world. No. It could damage FreeBSD. At present we largely just need to educate newcomers from eg Linux etc (who already know some Unix), We don't need to be swamped with noise from lots of clueless Microsoft zeroes, who don't / can't / won't think & will not read manuals, & won't even in desperation occasionaly look at source code for a clue. Clueless mouse clicking, lazy loosers are served (*) by Microsoft. (* `Served': As cows are, by a bull ;-) Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/