From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 01:08:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4F1106566C for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 01:08:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD868FC08 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 01:08:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so3391096obc.13 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=mi0ke16nnYSXDgqkcPTG5YK5cME0kI9YU4fA+0Q7NB4=; b=VyG69LjtKLEpOuyhjS/Gs4eDvMqBXEJ+7+5yF/dwwnGThGlEoZ0+wkdAMVBViwJ3ao gMlMq0teYN9lcy3gvzIYBQEkrwgDu9OEzY00Gwws6yTMT+BqlkabsWSOmdVyEaVi4VoS QUqwtX0t5rOGvS7yY7CGla9unUaKnve7WVP+GVvq3sr4SrB/7jgqT4epGbgAq/GjBREt w4n7QRpiUFe6dvYMBby8JK6z0m5D96T9DUgFQItwTgrsSfjx++KmllKMWNbdORVgUWiv vDS/cU/41uk6yi0gChVldwGSoi6gCKhAniLW1gSIMVbbrogbL5252w5orlNTKxZ1E3QZ YLRg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.32.210 with SMTP id l18mr3879411oei.1.1335661698650; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.154.70 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4f9cb48a.x8vU/6qLZViLZ+G5%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20120427170634.52a1675a@virus.local> <4f9cb48a.x8vU/6qLZViLZ+G5%perryh@pluto.rain.com> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:08:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: perryh@pluto.rain.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 01:08:24 -0000 On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:24 PM, wrote: > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, wrote: > > > I'm wondering if spinning up a "live DVD" desktop version, using > > > GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD > > > for a test drive ... > > > > There is such a very nice distribution : > > > > http://ghostbsd.org/ > > Also, freesbie.org > The above link is not complete . The freesbie.org is working as follows : http://www.freesbie.org/ Others : http://www.desktopbsd.net/ There are some links in the page : http://www.livebsd.org/ Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 09:23:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC5EB106564A for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:23:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 400FB8FC12 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:23:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BD26A6017; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:23:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.0x20.net Received: from mail.0x20.net ([217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LG635Zbz7rfp; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:23:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34E286A6014; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:23:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3T9Mx9V082698; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:22:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id q3T9MxBF081431; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:22:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:22:59 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Message-ID: <20120429092259.GY37811@e-new.0x20.net> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20120427170634.52a1675a@virus.local> <4f9cb48a.x8vU/6qLZViLZ+G5%perryh@pluto.rain.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="W71gD4yytnB3xhoe" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p3 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:31:42 +0000 Cc: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, perryh@pluto.rain.com Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:23:01 -0000 --W71gD4yytnB3xhoe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 09:08:18PM -0400, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 11:24 PM, wrote: >=20 > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:06 PM, wrote: > > > > I'm wondering if spinning up a "live DVD" desktop version, using > > > > GENERIC, and/or Gnome/KDE might be a good option to take FreeBSD > > > > for a test drive ... > > > > > > There is such a very nice distribution : > > > > > > http://ghostbsd.org/ > > > > Also, freesbie.org > > >=20 > The above link is not complete . > The freesbie.org is working as follows : >=20 > http://www.freesbie.org/ >=20 >=20 > Others : >=20 > http://www.desktopbsd.net/ >=20 >=20 > There are some links in the page : >=20 > http://www.livebsd.org/ FreesBIE and DesktopBSD are loooong dead.... Why don't we add a link to PC-BSD and maybe GhostBSD (though I read at [1] that it needs to be polished more to be a user-friendly distro) to the "LATEST RELEASES" section on freebsd.org? That way we could promote FreeBSD on the desktop, have more people try and run PC-BSD and keep simple "how do I set up a desktop?" questions =66rom freebsd-questions@=20 [1] http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/02/02/ghostbsd-2-5-review/ --W71gD4yytnB3xhoe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk+dCHMACgkQKc512sD3afgqRgCgrOvzKGyarsEhd4Mzhiq9pqZ9 KuMAn1s4VnJzV3K04Rd6CeACKC0rFlBe =msZI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --W71gD4yytnB3xhoe-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 09:24:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 106D9106566B for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:24:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5E88FC08 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:24:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E5EA6A6017; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:24:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.0x20.net Received: from mail.0x20.net ([217.69.76.211]) by mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oeg2irradmMv; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:24:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C069A6A6014; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:24:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3T9ObWL012707; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:24:37 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id q3T9OZ3r011425; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:24:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:24:35 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120429092435.GZ37811@e-new.0x20.net> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Q9gN6Pu6yShZegnw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p3 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:38:05 +0000 Cc: Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:24:39 -0000 --Q9gN6Pu6yShZegnw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 07:39:25AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >=20 > > My opinion is that most important obstacle in front of FreeBSD is its i= nstallation structure : > >=20 > >=20 > > It is NOT possible to install and use a FreeBSD distribution directly a= s it is . > >=20 > > In Linux distributions , when a distribution is installed , the user , = NOT root , > > can use its facilities WITHOUT setting a ( large ) number of parameters= which it is approximately ZERO . >=20 > why do you try to position this OS as windows/Mac OS replacement? Unix=20 > will never be and is not designed for it, but for users that want to have= =20 > real control of computers. Mac OSD _is_ a UNIX: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/4376 So, why not use a UNIX on the Desktop? :) --Q9gN6Pu6yShZegnw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk+dCNMACgkQKc512sD3afgKogCgndBSD98UvLdKA2ECg/H9874m UJQAn1Lqd2WJKi7CSNpWn7zbKMa3A8T5 =XbzM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Q9gN6Pu6yShZegnw-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 15:29:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C82106566C for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:29:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A59638FC08 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:29:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3THTZs7001764; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:29:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3THTSpd001761; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:29:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:29:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: perryh@pluto.rain.com In-Reply-To: <4f9cb48a.x8vU/6qLZViLZ+G5%perryh@pluto.rain.com> Message-ID: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20120427170634.52a1675a@virus.local> <4f9cb48a.x8vU/6qLZViLZ+G5%perryh@pluto.rain.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:29:36 +0200 (CEST) Cc: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:29:53 -0000 >> >> There is such a very nice distribution : >> >> http://ghostbsd.org/ > > Also, freesbie.org That's great - there are "distributions" with ready to use "desktop" environments etc. etc. while the main one is always the same. Everyone gets what he/she needs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 15:32:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20A21065676 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:32:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFEF48FC0A for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:32:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3THW0MX001777; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:32:01 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3THW0nw001774; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:32:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:32:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:32:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Jerry McAllister , Andy Young , Rick Macklem , Steven Hartland , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:32:06 -0000 > > FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about > what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is "the most advanced unix" from Oracle. I prefer "less advanced" FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 15:39:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E28106566B for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:39:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA8C8FC08 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:39:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3THdjFJ001821; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:39:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3THdjEA001818; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:39:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:39:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Jerry McAllister In-Reply-To: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Message-ID: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:39:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:39:51 -0000 > there are lots of services that could benefit from FreeBSD who are > not very aware of it. They may have heard the name, and even know > that it is an OS, but have heard it passed off as a non-entity in > the field and do not know better than that. > Don't really understand you. Basically everything that is open source compiles under FreeBSD out of the box (or out of ports) or can be ported without big work. Even if you have binary only 99% of the time linux emulation works great (for me it worked 100% of time). And yes - linux is faster if you run one program at a time and measures how fast openoffice loads. When you get to make greatly loaded server you will end it buying 50 servers to split "high" load or install FreeBSD. Everyone have a choice. I really can't imagine serving average sized company using one server running linux, with file transfers going over gigabit ethernet from multiple workstations, AND with everyone using his/her mail AND sendmail receives/sends mails and passes through antispam and antivirus and greylister AND lots of people view their website, AND there are 5 virtualboxed windoze session to run old software under windoze XP AND doing web proxy AND encrypting everything on disk. Still - getting by average one core saturated, with good deal of it being encryption (fortunately AESNI support here). All this AT THE SAME TIME on lower end dell T110-II tower server with 4 disks and 8GB RAM and single quad core xeon. If someone want to sell a lot of hardware then he/she will not like FreeBSD! From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 15:47:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73325106564A for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:47:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from utisoft@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BE48FC0A for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:47:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkvi17 with SMTP id i17so874354bkv.13 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:47:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=BT11DXoh2O6hmoyqGdO65LZsFvDaW8RxKcYrAYJcLFY=; b=zYWsuMBD3jZAokEcuQfspQhypM7VIaXxnkPmIMt0Uv4fbnk6pc/EcXVVVPrCHGhyK6 BsNSBuzoTyo3VGTRj4UVJPeO3Tpw9Rl9iVNmp+u5iK57ibHp/m6tHzgdcLStB730wZBf o/vUx2MRJJreVVhxGZTdg892JhbGfVA7q7hTwyLQwjlB2XUWYnr70mpdGQjUx0yJlHKj hg9sofT83LScbdoqAJawLjnrY0I3/QVwvePMe1z+P9YS04nsPxaF0zs+O4j9rx6sCPkP iiJdIHzPyPc28W+laZFpiRS7rU6gdbTquJPvJ49a5gw5WDJtWgwrx8l/jtk1vVEFRpy9 oysg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.214 with SMTP id p22mr2270571bkw.115.1335714477690; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.171.138 with HTTP; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:47:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:47:57 +0100 Message-ID: From: Chris Rees To: Wojciech Puchar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:47:59 -0000 On 29 Apr 2012 16:33, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >> >> >> FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about >> what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each release of it ) . > > > Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is "the most advanced unix" from Oracle. > I prefer "less advanced" FreeBSD > Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 16:46:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C08106566C; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (alchemy.franken.de [194.94.249.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6838FC0C; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:46:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alchemy.franken.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/ALCHEMY.FRANKEN.DE) with ESMTP id q3TGkN6K017922; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:46:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: (from marius@localhost) by alchemy.franken.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id q3TGkNjB017921; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:46:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:46:23 +0200 From: Marius Strobl To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20120429164623.GG68446@alchemy.franken.de> References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9A6180.8090500@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F9A6180.8090500@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:46:24 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:06:08PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 23/04/2012 00:21 Marius Strobl said the following: > > On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 06:37:54PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > [snip] > >> I am particularly interested in reviews of my attempt to make ZFS boot support > >> arch-independent. The arches, of course, would have to add some code to make > >> use of that support. Currently I only enabled it for x86. > >> > > > > I can't say much about these patches as a whole as they are rather > > big and I'm not aware of all the details of ZFS. However, one bit that > > makes the current implementation x86-specific is zfs_dev_init(). If > > you could move it to the MD part in the course of these patches that > > would be great. > > I have arranged this in my WIP version of the patch, which I hope to share soon. > Need to work out some unrelated details. > > > If you could also take the second patch in PR 165025 > > into account, which I plan to commit once the issue with the current > > ofw_disk.c are properly solved, that would be great. > > Thank you for the heads up. > Since I also hope to commit my patch rather soon, I would also appreciate if you > keep my changes in mind :-) > In fact, I would like to ask you if it would make sense to postpone the patch > from the PR until my patch is committed. That should make some things easier to > do (e.g. MD zfs_dev_init), but on the other hand some things would become different. > Either way, one of the patches would have to be rebased on top of the other. > Given that you certainly have a well better knowledge of ZFS, it would be great if we could do it the other way around, i.e. commit the sparc64 support first and then your patch after adapting whatever you have in mind with things becoming different. In other words, I'm basically ready to commit the following patch. As for zfs_dev_init() this just wraps it in #if defined(__amd64__) || defined(__i386__) in zfs.c for now. http://people.freebsd.org/~marius/boot_zfs_sparc64.diff Marius From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 16:25:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72078106566C for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:25:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@cs.stonybrook.edu) Received: from edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu (edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu [130.245.9.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199DB8FC19 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:25:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from HUBCAS1.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.206) by edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:25:41 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.2] (72.89.250.133) by hubcas1.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.212) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:25:42 -0400 Message-ID: <4F9D6B72.50408@cs.stonybrook.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:25:22 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120406 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig551CB110D4C34386E1599BD1" X-Originating-IP: [72.89.250.133] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:55:04 +0000 Cc: Subject: Where do the elf32_obj_loadfile, elf32_loadfile, elf64_obj_loadfile and elf64_loadfile symbols live? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:25:43 -0000 --------------enig551CB110D4C34386E1599BD1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Everyone, I tried compiling zfsloader from the FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE tree on Gentoo Linux, but I encountered issues due to missing symbols: /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= =2E/libi386/libi386.a(elf32_freebsd.o):(.data+0x0): undefined reference to `elf32_obj_loadfile' /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= =2E/libi386/libi386.a(elf32_freebsd.o):(.data+0x8): undefined reference to `elf32_loadfile' /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= =2E/libi386/libi386.a(elf64_freebsd.o):(.data+0x0): undefined reference to `elf64_obj_loadfile' /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= =2E/libi386/libi386.a(elf64_freebsd.o):(.data+0x8): undefined reference to `elf64_loadfile' I searched the sources using grep, but I cannot find where the functions implementing those symbols are declared. Does anyone know where I can find them? Yours truly, Richard Yao --------------enig551CB110D4C34386E1599BD1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPnWt1AAoJELFAT5FmjZuEt5EP/i+DlLhyh0mGENIvI+APAinm IfI96L0OuQFL7PMaD8OS2MwLI2h0rs3kgJEDCLmFMTKngtGAkC3Xy1zcxOmcGb5H DC/uTB4Q8iFAJWMw51HQutDZFPTjatsh0i8RJt6W2VO5+y6qeXUbM1opbEn2HbCV r0RXHTyQxyRsomPvSjDPOb1B9QqYW4ZP6YK2jAf9QCbLBR5b+TaCwifwChEQoOXT gQsrCvi+GXt00ptZBHh2MARi+KrlDVwreGGNb+CotqV/tY+2FzEbcN/vm+p1HeDh IDeFidqrzie5xWKTWOZOsBNrZ6trZUZ+VlCAgufsKEISowTEfYA7GK8CMYfm5QgC FnmYqXZDlIBww1ShVbfNR/QTs1/63SOYaY4lARWEyEQjFhABFFAypyGUZ8hIZdkV 3yOHpFmuUQuIu5bqBNeUtaRneqqQun4GrQU3+jgDFSqbwQu/7JZdeVxe5sA9mDkV fQKVn7BzzT8rrdZKmDUHHQhrLh24E2Ltj68KAkNX/IqtX8pznlnJaZXDQ+iP8ql/ 9x4P2HLohheLRmksnS3WIav5o0XxjSjGX0AwYMLYjeuKq0fWhBChikBFIXHsv8Ib h0BnkRv5AcG5E8ECdiD65NXZaZn8lMQZhCbDymqCeqDN8SkEOlRThp2QuQ96Oc+6 3fBWkFptsVaBK6/usDXX =x6eK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig551CB110D4C34386E1599BD1-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 17:26:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA1F106566B for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:26:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kabaev@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9308FC08 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:25:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qabg1 with SMTP id g1so1262714qab.13 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:25:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type; bh=3UiakuX1zc9u1wpqn2qx3d8NvH9EzcqxV/O5z/uDiwE=; b=p/lboz2mZ/EjxUrbBK7g9GAJNEfhEAGgDXA/UuvuVj7wh+qnfDtPGdd/3nFdB+SG3L HdfUSmuFBI7ggNEWq1u/bA8L0m24RDUFWnXs6UMRrQhYn1Skf0Mclm3HmyhynuJKKsjP n7dVdKGCSBh32loeeyMvtidKDGNLRapZ0TOr/HDp5rRFPKYDvJr6Ms5M95EOZzRw45UO Jk6pAeWOx85rYPgKDQ7HWU+yDHlEBbPLwFvj0TdjC2WU9WOdpbIS0oZMd3RG0Bg3j9aG UmrEKV6snKF4bAJLT25n1knxQtYh7KMMkuIBoH3MOl+qJx2h9vCxOz2e0Wtr740xs5Iw +hoA== Received: by 10.224.182.130 with SMTP id cc2mr11151543qab.27.1335720353390; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kan.dyndns.org (c-24-63-226-98.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [24.63.226.98]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gb7sm19605820qab.12.2012.04.29.10.25.51 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:25:45 -0400 From: Alexander Kabaev To: Richard Yao Message-ID: <20120429132545.071d4cc6@kan.dyndns.org> In-Reply-To: <4F9D6B72.50408@cs.stonybrook.edu> References: <4F9D6B72.50408@cs.stonybrook.edu> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/deSfTcEWX7c5ltBwSUd/e1Z"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Where do the elf32_obj_loadfile, elf32_loadfile, elf64_obj_loadfile and elf64_loadfile symbols live? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:26:00 -0000 --Sig_/deSfTcEWX7c5ltBwSUd/e1Z Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:25:22 -0400 Richard Yao wrote: > Dear Everyone, >=20 > I tried compiling zfsloader from the FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE tree on > Gentoo Linux, but I encountered issues due to missing symbols: >=20 > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= ./libi386/libi386.a(elf32_freebsd.o):(.data+0x0): > undefined reference to `elf32_obj_loadfile' > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= ./libi386/libi386.a(elf32_freebsd.o):(.data+0x8): > undefined reference to `elf32_loadfile' > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= ./libi386/libi386.a(elf64_freebsd.o):(.data+0x0): > undefined reference to `elf64_obj_loadfile' > /var/tmp/portage/sys-boot/gptzfsloader-9.0/work/sys/boot/i386/zfsloader/.= ./libi386/libi386.a(elf64_freebsd.o):(.data+0x8): > undefined reference to `elf64_loadfile' >=20 > I searched the sources using grep, but I cannot find where the > functions implementing those symbols are declared. Does anyone know > where I can find them? >=20 > Yours truly, > Richard Yao >=20 Hi, please look at sys/elf_generic.c and macros it defines, namely=20 __elfN.=20 --=20 Alexander Kabaev --Sig_/deSfTcEWX7c5ltBwSUd/e1Z Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFPnXmeQ6z1jMm+XZYRAhjEAJwK1C3BcROE/aLN/Q8Ni471x9UuwACgz4+g By60neC56qhl1PFvVdZ0tUI= =weOG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/deSfTcEWX7c5ltBwSUd/e1Z-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 17:27:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D281065679 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:27:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9838FC20 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:27:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so1483572pbb.13 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:27:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=R/PS4n5XRjPnoGk5ioySr0Ss4dmbHCED4vUZSr5P/Oo=; b=PsVlzfnk+as5V0++Jty5kc1VBKHYT/tAoRQ/exD0yRDTzhsDr9IuyhCjhQ1VugXaxz SGQTwv+HdZ16jb+zxRqY89maeSCLJpKp08pLKs6UpGKYdKgD4L/fkh8dG/+0UgINJ35H oMo/oioGkwddYmFbfpJ+EsHlFltqP5mHCNiLMnoEr1CTMLnoVId0zy8jqxdp96C9MJ/K T49nGJmWBakxkcOmNauUkDpvP1IOWa1Doxia6e3+GRLJlpPYQFKmMeP6sjEaeetti1JL B/azcMUY2oRmrrt6kPsYzCgmxNZbpypBrt47FRHHDgkstXqj0x7EQJ5+p39UmK/TQYr8 opcg== Received: by 10.68.136.65 with SMTP id py1mr33023651pbb.81.1335720432349; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.254.26] ([50.125.30.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id tx9sm2761869pbc.10.2012.04.29.10.27.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:27:11 -0700 (PDT) References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B179) From: Garrett Cooper Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:27:08 -0700 To: Chris Rees Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:27:13 -0000 On Apr 29, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Chris Rees wrote: > On 29 Apr 2012 16:33, "Wojciech Puchar" > wrote: >>> >>> >>> FreeBSD installation and boot style are very nice . Personally I dislike > very much Ubuntu-like installs ( nothing is displayed about >>> what is going on ) and I never use it ( in spite of I am installing each > release of it ) . >> >> >> Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to > look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea what's going on not > only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ > hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this is "the most advanced unix" from > Oracle. >> I prefer "less advanced" FreeBSD >> > > Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. +1 Leave mudslinging to marketing and politicians :).. -Garrett From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 21:00:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551E31065677 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:00:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from esa-annu.mail.uoguelph.ca (esa-annu.mail.uoguelph.ca [131.104.91.36]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F1528FC19 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:00:44 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap8EALKrnU+DaFvO/2dsb2JhbABEhWitOIIJAQEBBAEBASArIAsbDgoCAg0ZAikBCSYGCAcEARwEh2wLpwKSBIEviV0GhHiBGASTT4IvgRGPMYMEgTkH X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,501,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="167146618" Received: from erie.cs.uoguelph.ca (HELO zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca) ([131.104.91.206]) by esa-annu-pri.mail.uoguelph.ca with ESMTP; 29 Apr 2012 17:00:26 -0400 Received: from zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA6CB3F93; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:00:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:00:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Macklem To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <1715805628.104139.1335733226336.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.17.91.202] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.10_GA_2692 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/6.0.10_GA_2692) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:00:45 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > is there any way to speed up NFS server? > > from what i noticed: > > - reads works fast and good, like accessed locally, readahead up to > maxbsize works fine on large files etc. > > - write works terribly. it performs sync on every write IMHO, > setting vfs.nfsrv.async=1 improves things SLIGHTLY, but still - writes > are > sent to hard disk every single block - no clustering. > > > am i doing something wrong or is it that broken? > Since I haven't seen anyone else answer this, I'll throw out my $0.00 worth one more time. (This topic comes up regularily on the mailing lists.) Not broken, it's just a feature of NFS. When the client says FILE_SYNC, the server is required to do that. (ie. Make sure the data is stored on stable storage, so it can't be lost if the server crashes/reboots.) Expensive NFS servers can use non-volatile RAM to speed this up, but a generic FreeBSD box can't do that. Some clients (I believe ESXi is one of these) requests FILE_SYNC all the time, but all clients will do so sooner or later. If you are exporting ZFS volumes and don't mind violating the NFS RFCs and risking data loss, there is a ZFS option that helps. I don't use ZFS, but I think the option is (sync=disabled) or something like that. (ZFS folks can help out, if you want that.) Even using vfs.nfsrv.async=1 breaks the above. Once you do this, when an application in a client does a successful fsync() and assumes the data is safely stored and then the server crashes, the data can still be lost. rick > > i tried user space nfs from ports, it's funny but it's performance is > actually better after i removed fsync from code. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 29 23:49:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D43F5106564A; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:49:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alc@rice.edu) Received: from mh5.mail.rice.edu (mh5.mail.rice.edu [128.42.199.32]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553DA8FC15; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:49:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mh5.mail.rice.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mh5.mail.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A72B291087; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:49:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mh5.mail.rice.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mh5.mail.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E74291042; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:49:08 -0500 (CDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-2.6.4 at mh5.mail.rice.edu, auth channel Received: from mh5.mail.rice.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by mh5.mail.rice.edu (mh5.mail.rice.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10026) with ESMTP id 4gsnVG1CFaYZ; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:49:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from adsl-216-63-78-18.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net (adsl-216-63-78-18.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [216.63.78.18]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: alc) by mh5.mail.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 69533290DAC; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:49:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4F9DD372.1020001@rice.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 18:49:06 -0500 From: Alan Cox User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111113 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrey Zonov References: <4F7B495D.3010402@zonov.org> <20120404071746.GJ2358@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> <4F7DC037.9060803@rice.edu> <201204091126.25260.jhb@freebsd.org> <4F845D9B.10004@rice.edu> <4F851F87.3050206@zonov.org> In-Reply-To: <4F851F87.3050206@zonov.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020902040700020406010201" Cc: Konstantin Belousov , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, alc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: problems with mmap() and disk caching X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:49:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020902040700020406010201 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 04/11/2012 01:07, Andrey Zonov wrote: > On 10.04.2012 20:19, Alan Cox wrote: >> On 04/09/2012 10:26, John Baldwin wrote: >>> On Thursday, April 05, 2012 11:54:31 am Alan Cox wrote: >>>> On 04/04/2012 02:17, Konstantin Belousov wrote: >>>>> On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 11:02:53PM +0400, Andrey Zonov wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I open the file, then call mmap() on the whole file and get pointer, >>>>>> then I work with this pointer. I expect that page should be only >>>>>> once >>>>>> touched to get it into the memory (disk cache?), but this doesn't >>>>>> work! >>>>>> >>>>>> I wrote the test (attached) and ran it for the 1G file generated >>>>>> from >>>>>> /dev/random, the result is the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> Prepare file: >>>>>> # swapoff -a >>>>>> # newfs /dev/ada0b >>>>>> # mount /dev/ada0b /mnt >>>>>> # dd if=/dev/random of=/mnt/random-1024 bs=1m count=1024 >>>>>> >>>>>> Purge cache: >>>>>> # umount /mnt >>>>>> # mount /dev/ada0b /mnt >>>>>> >>>>>> Run test: >>>>>> $ ./mmap /mnt/random-1024 30 >>>>>> mmap: 1 pass took: 7.431046 (none: 262112; res: 32; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 2 pass took: 7.356670 (none: 261648; res: 496; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 3 pass took: 7.307094 (none: 260521; res: 1623; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 4 pass took: 7.350239 (none: 258904; res: 3240; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 5 pass took: 7.392480 (none: 257286; res: 4858; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 6 pass took: 7.292069 (none: 255584; res: 6560; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 7 pass took: 7.048980 (none: 251142; res: 11002; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 8 pass took: 6.899387 (none: 247584; res: 14560; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 9 pass took: 7.190579 (none: 242992; res: 19152; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 10 pass took: 6.915482 (none: 239308; res: 22836; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 11 pass took: 6.565909 (none: 232835; res: 29309; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 12 pass took: 6.423945 (none: 226160; res: 35984; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 13 pass took: 6.315385 (none: 208555; res: 53589; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 14 pass took: 6.760780 (none: 192805; res: 69339; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 15 pass took: 5.721513 (none: 174497; res: 87647; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 16 pass took: 5.004424 (none: 155938; res: 106206; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 17 pass took: 4.224926 (none: 135639; res: 126505; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 18 pass took: 3.749608 (none: 117952; res: 144192; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 19 pass took: 3.398084 (none: 99066; res: 163078; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 20 pass took: 3.029557 (none: 74994; res: 187150; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 21 pass took: 2.379430 (none: 55231; res: 206913; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 22 pass took: 2.046521 (none: 40786; res: 221358; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 23 pass took: 1.152797 (none: 30311; res: 231833; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 24 pass took: 0.972617 (none: 16196; res: 245948; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 25 pass took: 0.577515 (none: 8286; res: 253858; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 26 pass took: 0.380738 (none: 3712; res: 258432; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 27 pass took: 0.253583 (none: 1193; res: 260951; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 28 pass took: 0.157508 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 29 pass took: 0.156169 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 30 pass took: 0.156550 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> >>>>>> If I ran this: >>>>>> $ cat /mnt/random-1024> /dev/null >>>>>> before test, when result is the following: >>>>>> >>>>>> $ ./mmap /mnt/random-1024 5 >>>>>> mmap: 1 pass took: 0.337657 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 2 pass took: 0.186137 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 3 pass took: 0.186132 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 4 pass took: 0.186535 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> mmap: 5 pass took: 0.190353 (none: 0; res: 262144; super: >>>>>> 0; other: 0) >>>>>> >>>>>> This is what I expect. But why this doesn't work without reading >>>>>> file >>>>>> manually? >>>>> Issue seems to be in some change of the behaviour of the reserv or >>>>> phys allocator. I Cc:ed Alan. >>>> I'm pretty sure that the behavior here hasn't significantly changed in >>>> about twelve years. Otherwise, I agree with your analysis. >>>> >>>> On more than one occasion, I've been tempted to change: >>>> >>>> pmap_remove_all(mt); >>>> if (mt->dirty != 0) >>>> vm_page_deactivate(mt); >>>> else >>>> vm_page_cache(mt); >>>> >>>> to: >>>> >>>> vm_page_dontneed(mt); >>>> >>>> because I suspect that the current code does more harm than good. In >>>> theory, it saves activations of the page daemon. However, more often >>>> than not, I suspect that we are spending more on page reactivations >>>> than >>>> we are saving on page daemon activations. The sequential access >>>> detection heuristic is just too easily triggered. For example, I've >>>> seen it triggered by demand paging of the gcc text segment. Also, I >>>> think that pmap_remove_all() and especially vm_page_cache() are too >>>> severe for a detection heuristic that is so easily triggered. >>> Are you planning to commit this? >>> >> >> Not yet. I did some tests with a file that was several times larger than >> DRAM, and I didn't like what I saw. Initially, everything behaved as >> expected, but about halfway through the test the bulk of the pages were >> active. Despite the call to pmap_clear_reference() in >> vm_page_dontneed(), the page daemon is finding the pages to be >> referenced and reactivating them. The net result is that the time it >> takes to read the file (from a relatively fast SSD) goes up by about >> 12%. So, this still needs work. >> > > Hi Alan, > > What do you think about attached patch? > > Sorry for the slow reply, I've been rather busy for the past couple of weeks. What you propose is clearly good for sequential accesses, but not so good for random accesses. Keep in mind, the potential costs of unconditionally increasing the read window include not only wasted I/O but also increased memory pressure. Rather than argue about which is more important, sequential or random access, I think it's more productive to replace the sequential access heuristic. The current heuristic is just not that sophisticated. It's easy to do better. The attached patch implements a new heuristic, which starts with the same initial read window as the current heuristic, but arithmetically grows the window on sequential page faults. From a stylistic standpoint, this patch also cleanly separates the "read ahead" logic from the "cache behind" logic. At the same time, this new heuristic is more selective about performing cache behind. It requires three or four sequential page faults before cache behind is enabled. More precisely, it requires the read ahead window to reach its maximum size before cache behind is enabled. For long, sequential accesses, the results of my performance tests are just good as unconditionally increasing the window size. I'm also seeing fewer pages needlessly cached by the cache behind heuristic. That said, there is still room for improvement. We are still not achieving the same sequential performance as "dd", and there are still more pages being cached than I would like. Alan --------------020902040700020406010201 Content-Type: text/plain; name="vm_fault_cache98.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vm_fault_cache98.patch" Index: vm/vm_map.c =================================================================== --- vm/vm_map.c (revision 234106) +++ vm/vm_map.c (working copy) @@ -1300,6 +1300,8 @@ charged: new_entry->protection = prot; new_entry->max_protection = max; new_entry->wired_count = 0; + new_entry->read_ahead = VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_INIT; + new_entry->next_read = OFF_TO_IDX(offset); KASSERT(cred == NULL || !ENTRY_CHARGED(new_entry), ("OVERCOMMIT: vm_map_insert leaks vm_map %p", new_entry)); Index: vm/vm_map.h =================================================================== --- vm/vm_map.h (revision 234106) +++ vm/vm_map.h (working copy) @@ -112,8 +112,9 @@ struct vm_map_entry { vm_prot_t protection; /* protection code */ vm_prot_t max_protection; /* maximum protection */ vm_inherit_t inheritance; /* inheritance */ + uint8_t read_ahead; /* pages in the read-ahead window */ int wired_count; /* can be paged if = 0 */ - vm_pindex_t lastr; /* last read */ + vm_pindex_t next_read; /* index of the next sequential read */ struct ucred *cred; /* tmp storage for creator ref */ }; @@ -330,6 +331,14 @@ long vmspace_wired_count(struct vmspace *vmspace); #define VM_FAULT_DIRTY 2 /* Dirty the page; use w/VM_PROT_COPY */ /* + * Initially, mappings are slightly sequential. The maximum window size must + * account for the map entry's "read_ahead" field being defined as an uint8_t. + */ +#define VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MIN 7 +#define VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_INIT 15 +#define VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MAX min(atop(MAXPHYS) - 1, UINT8_MAX) + +/* * The following "find_space" options are supported by vm_map_find() */ #define VMFS_NO_SPACE 0 /* don't find; use the given range */ Index: vm/vm_fault.c =================================================================== --- vm/vm_fault.c (revision 234106) +++ vm/vm_fault.c (working copy) @@ -118,9 +118,11 @@ static int prefault_pageorder[] = { static int vm_fault_additional_pages(vm_page_t, int, int, vm_page_t *, int *); static void vm_fault_prefault(pmap_t, vm_offset_t, vm_map_entry_t); -#define VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD 8 -#define VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND 7 -#define VM_FAULT_READ (VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD+VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND+1) +#define VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND 8 +#define VM_FAULT_READ_MAX (1 + VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MAX) +#define VM_FAULT_NINCR (VM_FAULT_READ_MAX / VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND) +#define VM_FAULT_SUM (VM_FAULT_NINCR * (VM_FAULT_NINCR + 1) / 2) +#define VM_FAULT_CACHE_BEHIND (VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND * VM_FAULT_SUM) struct faultstate { vm_page_t m; @@ -136,6 +138,8 @@ struct faultstate { int vfslocked; }; +static void vm_fault_cache_behind(const struct faultstate *fs, int distance); + static inline void release_page(struct faultstate *fs) { @@ -236,13 +240,13 @@ vm_fault_hold(vm_map_t map, vm_offset_t vaddr, vm_ int fault_flags, vm_page_t *m_hold) { vm_prot_t prot; - int is_first_object_locked, result; - boolean_t growstack, wired; + long ahead, behind; + int alloc_req, era, faultcount, nera, reqpage, result; + boolean_t growstack, is_first_object_locked, wired; int map_generation; vm_object_t next_object; - vm_page_t marray[VM_FAULT_READ], mt, mt_prev; + vm_page_t marray[VM_FAULT_READ_MAX]; int hardfault; - int faultcount, ahead, behind, alloc_req; struct faultstate fs; struct vnode *vp; int locked, error; @@ -252,7 +256,7 @@ vm_fault_hold(vm_map_t map, vm_offset_t vaddr, vm_ PCPU_INC(cnt.v_vm_faults); fs.vp = NULL; fs.vfslocked = 0; - faultcount = behind = 0; + faultcount = reqpage = 0; RetryFault:; @@ -460,76 +464,48 @@ readrest: */ if (TRYPAGER) { int rv; - int reqpage = 0; u_char behavior = vm_map_entry_behavior(fs.entry); if (behavior == MAP_ENTRY_BEHAV_RANDOM || P_KILLED(curproc)) { + behind = 0; ahead = 0; + } else if (behavior == MAP_ENTRY_BEHAV_SEQUENTIAL) { behind = 0; + ahead = atop(fs.entry->end - vaddr) - 1; + if (ahead > VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MAX) + ahead = VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MAX; + if (fs.pindex == fs.entry->next_read) + vm_fault_cache_behind(&fs, + VM_FAULT_READ_MAX); } else { - behind = (vaddr - fs.entry->start) >> PAGE_SHIFT; + /* + * If this is a sequential page fault, then + * arithmetically increase the number of pages + * in the read-ahead window. Otherwise, reset + * the read-ahead window to its smallest size. + */ + behind = atop(vaddr - fs.entry->start); if (behind > VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND) behind = VM_FAULT_READ_BEHIND; - - ahead = ((fs.entry->end - vaddr) >> PAGE_SHIFT) - 1; - if (ahead > VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD) - ahead = VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD; + ahead = atop(fs.entry->end - vaddr) - 1; + era = fs.entry->read_ahead; + if (fs.pindex == fs.entry->next_read) { + nera = era + behind; + if (nera > VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MAX) + nera = VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MAX; + behind = 0; + if (ahead > nera) + ahead = nera; + if (era == VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MAX) + vm_fault_cache_behind(&fs, + VM_FAULT_CACHE_BEHIND); + } else if (ahead > VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MIN) + ahead = VM_FAULT_READ_AHEAD_MIN; + if (era != ahead) + fs.entry->read_ahead = ahead; } - is_first_object_locked = FALSE; - if ((behavior == MAP_ENTRY_BEHAV_SEQUENTIAL || - (behavior != MAP_ENTRY_BEHAV_RANDOM && - fs.pindex >= fs.entry->lastr && - fs.pindex < fs.entry->lastr + VM_FAULT_READ)) && - (fs.first_object == fs.object || - (is_first_object_locked = VM_OBJECT_TRYLOCK(fs.first_object))) && - fs.first_object->type != OBJT_DEVICE && - fs.first_object->type != OBJT_PHYS && - fs.first_object->type != OBJT_SG) { - vm_pindex_t firstpindex; - if (fs.first_pindex < 2 * VM_FAULT_READ) - firstpindex = 0; - else - firstpindex = fs.first_pindex - 2 * VM_FAULT_READ; - mt = fs.first_object != fs.object ? - fs.first_m : fs.m; - KASSERT(mt != NULL, ("vm_fault: missing mt")); - KASSERT((mt->oflags & VPO_BUSY) != 0, - ("vm_fault: mt %p not busy", mt)); - mt_prev = vm_page_prev(mt); - - /* - * note: partially valid pages cannot be - * included in the lookahead - NFS piecemeal - * writes will barf on it badly. - */ - while ((mt = mt_prev) != NULL && - mt->pindex >= firstpindex && - mt->valid == VM_PAGE_BITS_ALL) { - mt_prev = vm_page_prev(mt); - if (mt->busy || - (mt->oflags & VPO_BUSY)) - continue; - vm_page_lock(mt); - if (mt->hold_count || - mt->wire_count) { - vm_page_unlock(mt); - continue; - } - pmap_remove_all(mt); - if (mt->dirty != 0) - vm_page_deactivate(mt); - else - vm_page_cache(mt); - vm_page_unlock(mt); - } - ahead += behind; - behind = 0; - } - if (is_first_object_locked) - VM_OBJECT_UNLOCK(fs.first_object); - /* * Call the pager to retrieve the data, if any, after * releasing the lock on the map. We hold a ref on @@ -899,7 +875,7 @@ vnode_locked: * without holding a write lock on it. */ if (hardfault) - fs.entry->lastr = fs.pindex + faultcount - behind; + fs.entry->next_read = fs.pindex + faultcount - reqpage; if ((prot & VM_PROT_WRITE) != 0 || (fault_flags & VM_FAULT_DIRTY) != 0) { @@ -992,6 +968,56 @@ vnode_locked: } /* + * Speed up the reclamation of up to "distance" pages that precede the + * faulting pindex within the first object of the shadow chain. + */ +static void +vm_fault_cache_behind(const struct faultstate *fs, int distance) +{ + vm_page_t m, m_prev; + vm_pindex_t pindex; + boolean_t is_first_object_locked; + + VM_OBJECT_LOCK_ASSERT(fs->object, MA_OWNED); + is_first_object_locked = FALSE; + if (fs->first_object != fs->object && !(is_first_object_locked = + VM_OBJECT_TRYLOCK(fs->first_object))) + return; + if (fs->first_object->type != OBJT_DEVICE && + fs->first_object->type != OBJT_PHYS && + fs->first_object->type != OBJT_SG) { + if (fs->first_pindex < distance) + pindex = 0; + else + pindex = fs->first_pindex - distance; + if (pindex < OFF_TO_IDX(fs->entry->offset)) + pindex = OFF_TO_IDX(fs->entry->offset); + m = fs->first_object != fs->object ? fs->first_m : fs->m; + KASSERT(m != NULL, ("vm_fault_cache_behind: page missing")); + KASSERT((m->oflags & VPO_BUSY) != 0, + ("vm_fault_cache_behind: page %p is not busy", m)); + m_prev = vm_page_prev(m); + while ((m = m_prev) != NULL && m->pindex >= pindex && + m->valid == VM_PAGE_BITS_ALL) { + m_prev = vm_page_prev(m); + if (m->busy != 0 || (m->oflags & VPO_BUSY) != 0) + continue; + vm_page_lock(m); + if (m->hold_count == 0 && m->wire_count == 0) { + pmap_remove_all(m); + if (m->dirty != 0) + vm_page_deactivate(m); + else + vm_page_cache(m); + } + vm_page_unlock(m); + } + } + if (is_first_object_locked) + VM_OBJECT_UNLOCK(fs->first_object); +} + +/* * vm_fault_prefault provides a quick way of clustering * pagefaults into a processes address space. It is a "cousin" * of vm_map_pmap_enter, except it runs at page fault time instead --------------020902040700020406010201-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 05:09:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7862A1065673 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:09:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54AD8FC0C for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3U59iTp030264; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:09:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3U59hg5030261; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:09:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:09:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Rick Macklem In-Reply-To: <1715805628.104139.1335733226336.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: References: <1715805628.104139.1335733226336.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:09:44 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:09:47 -0000 > the server is required to do that. (ie. Make sure the data is stored on > stable storage, so it can't be lost if the server crashes/reboots.) > Expensive NFS servers can use non-volatile RAM to speed this up, but a generic > FreeBSD box can't do that. > > Some clients (I believe ESXi is one of these) requests FILE_SYNC all the > time, but all clients will do so sooner or later. > > If you are exporting ZFS volumes and don't mind violating the NFS RFCs > and risking data loss, there is a ZFS option that helps. I don't use > ZFS, but I think the option is (sync=disabled) or something like that. > (ZFS folks can help out, if you want that.) Even using vfs.nfsrv.async=1 > breaks the above. thank you for answering. i don't use or plan to use ZFS. and i am aware of this NFS "feature" but i don't understand - even with syncs disabled, why writes are not clustered. i always see 32kB writes in systat when running unfsd from ports it doesn't have that problem and works FASTER than kernel nfs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 05:14:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2921065670 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:14:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1EFB8FC12 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:14:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3U5E0TT030292; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3U5E0xa030289; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Lars Engels In-Reply-To: <20120429092435.GZ37811@e-new.0x20.net> Message-ID: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <20120429092435.GZ37811@e-new.0x20.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:01 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:14:07 -0000 > > Mac OSD _is_ a UNIX: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/4376 > So, why not use a UNIX on the Desktop? :) > as well as my VoIP phone gateway software. as well as Mac software it is unix based but NOT meant for it's user to interact with unix commands or even know it is. Just opposite to FreeBSD/amd64. Nothing wrong to use FreeBSD (because of zero-restriction BSD licence) this way and actually used that way often - eg. Juniper routers. But why so many people here want everyone (or at least a lot of ordinary people) to use it willingly, while 99.9% of people will not be able to ever learn any unix? or actually any software except of point and click. No idea. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 05:14:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA45D106564A for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:14:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182288FC0C for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:14:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3U5Edvs030298; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3U5EdMF030295; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Chris Rees In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:14:40 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Andy Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:14:46 -0000 > > > > Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea > what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this > is "the most advanced unix" from Oracle. > > I prefer "less advanced" FreeBSD > > > > Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. So? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 05:16:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33F21065674 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:16:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1087A8FC1A for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:16:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q3U5GSdn030316; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:16:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q3U5GSux030313; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:16:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:16:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:16:28 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Andy Young , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:16:41 -0000 >>> I prefer "less advanced" FreeBSD >>> >> >> Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. > > +1 > > Leave mudslinging to marketing and politicians :).. > > -Garrett > > as for now you and few other people work hard to DE-promote FreeBSD from those few people that are able to make use of it but yet didn't. Or more exact - delay, because those that need it sooner or later will start using it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 07:04:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A466106564A; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:04:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E62A8FC0A; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:04:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id KAA03219; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:04:20 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SOkei-000Ift-3j; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:04:20 +0300 Message-ID: <4F9E3971.7090405@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:04:17 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120425 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9A6180.8090500@FreeBSD.org> <20120429164623.GG68446@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20120429164623.GG68446@alchemy.franken.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:04:31 -0000 on 29/04/2012 19:46 Marius Strobl said the following: > Given that you certainly have a well better knowledge of ZFS, it > would be great if we could do it the other way around, i.e. commit > the sparc64 support first and then your patch after adapting > whatever you have in mind with things becoming different. In other > words, I'm basically ready to commit the following patch. As for > zfs_dev_init() this just wraps it in #if defined(__amd64__) || > defined(__i386__) in zfs.c for now. > http://people.freebsd.org/~marius/boot_zfs_sparc64.diff OK, let's do it this way. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 08:58:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63776106567F for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:58:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@acm.org) Received: from mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.192]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8BE98FC1D for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:58:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-251-180.belrs5.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.251.180]) by mail11.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q3U8vpCa028814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:57:54 +1000 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.5/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q3U8voKl057774; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:57:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q3U8vnJj057773; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:57:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:57:48 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <20120430085748.GA56921@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:58:03 -0000 --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2012-Apr-27 22:05:42 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >is there any way to speed up NFS server? =2E.. >- write works terribly. it performs sync on every write IMHO, You don't mention which NFS server or NFS version you are using but for "traditional" NFS, this is by design. The NFS server is stateless and NFS server failures are transparent (other than time-wise) to the client. This means that once the server acknowledges a write, it guarantees the client will be able to later retrieve that data, even if the server crashes. This implies that the server needs to do a synchronous write to disk before it can return the acknowledgement back to the client. --=20 Peter Jeremy --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk+eVAwACgkQ/opHv/APuIdWawCfQIu5AmRgRr0g3wEBK6HCsBka /jsAn0LY1oK+kJejZR4eiRsVWK6JdWOG =peTt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FL5UXtIhxfXey3p5-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 09:47:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EE3F106566B for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:47:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3433F8FC08 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:47:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so2120855pbb.13 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 02:47:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=NLR2Z8D4xO8Znt5XvPzxdipUSXk22zOo+WitfxznqIY=; b=T32D5rF0Lbc6qSF/TuCzOsjqoejsUU1SdZRJj9vvy7i/S6weOOdyihH+HrmnG5Faix 6DZgMKtSm/INre3aUeDAMHbeoj6FovaVKiRj5x/jtuI9zvl2EppWsy0lwR74tXhgHbjw zXOMjHvar6FyeBfREfLSa4LIxAI4XBwEzA/SGS1diF9lE898c3jbZx5RY3xWDTdrvV+W vjdiPr5xDRmguyYBHb3e4bSXFaFq7aCFOckdlCYciyJgqbEsh8CBfY29tZJZgt84rpPP sD5BWi5HAC4XFb6+ltOHRW6dEi8mCR5JnyzUG2r0TFW9a1SBRPMufG53f7IgwwYgv0RH HR4Q== Received: by 10.68.239.100 with SMTP id vr4mr43931111pbc.72.1335779229763; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 02:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fuji.netgear.com ([50.125.30.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id qt3sm1205340pbb.52.2012.04.30.02.47.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 02:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 02:47:08 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Andy Young , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:47:11 -0000 On Apr 29, 2012, at 10:16 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>>> I prefer "less advanced" FreeBSD >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. >>=20 >> +1 >>=20 >> Leave mudslinging to marketing and politicians :).. > as for now you and few other people work hard to DE-promote FreeBSD = from those few people that are able to make use of it but yet didn't. I'm sorry=85 I didn't realize that resorting to petty tactics to = achieve one's goals was the way to do things. If it's better, the proof will be in the pudding and people will = flock to it (as another old adage goes -- if you build it, they will = come): plain and simple. > Or more exact - delay, because those that need it sooner or later will = start using it. Advertising that it exists and is used is more important than = saying "x sucks, use y instead". This is the tone I was getting from the = previous response and this is what I discourage as well as others on the = list. If you can do it in a non-confrontational way, I'd say do it. = Otherwise, please don't force your opinion down others' throats. Thanks, -Garrett= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 05:42:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58E01065670 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erich@alogreentechnologies.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.226.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D1F8FC0A for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:42:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from amd620.ovitrap.com ([49.128.188.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q3U5gqAp026967; Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:42:55 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky Organization: ALO Green Technologies Pte Ltd To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:43:16 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/8.3-STABLE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201204301243.16332.erich@alogreentechnologies.com> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:01:24 +0000 Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 05:42:57 -0000 Hi, On Monday 30 April 2012 12:14:39 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > > > Another way to promote FreeBSD - show Solaris first. Yesterday just to look downloaded from oracle. Incredibly slow, no idea > > what's going on not only while installing but when trying to do anything and understand /etc/ hierarchy. incredible slow mess - this > > is "the most advanced unix" from Oracle. > > > I prefer "less advanced" FreeBSD > > > > > > > Ridiculing other projects is not a great way to show superiority. > > So? I also wonder? He did not write this 'most advanced unix; but showed only what they result of their efforts was. Why blame the messenger for the bad message? Yes, I have had to work with this kind of software for some time. Erich From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 11:58:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16C9106566B for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:58:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from esa-jnhn.mail.uoguelph.ca (esa-jnhn.mail.uoguelph.ca [131.104.91.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698B28FC0C for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:58:08 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap8EAP98nk+DaFvO/2dsb2JhbABEhWitMIIJAQEBAwEBAQEgKyALBRYOCgICDRkCKQEJJgYIBwQBHASHZwULpnSSKoEviV0GhHiBGASTT4IvgRGPMYMEgTkH X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,505,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="170075274" Received: from erie.cs.uoguelph.ca (HELO zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca) ([131.104.91.206]) by esa-jnhn-pri.mail.uoguelph.ca with ESMTP; 30 Apr 2012 07:58:01 -0400 Received: from zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B853B3FE3; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:58:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Macklem To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <1970100135.114428.1335787081556.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.17.91.203] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.10_GA_2692 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/6.0.10_GA_2692) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:58:08 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > the server is required to do that. (ie. Make sure the data is stored > > on > > stable storage, so it can't be lost if the server crashes/reboots.) > > Expensive NFS servers can use non-volatile RAM to speed this up, but > > a generic > > FreeBSD box can't do that. > > > > Some clients (I believe ESXi is one of these) requests FILE_SYNC all > > the > > time, but all clients will do so sooner or later. > > > > If you are exporting ZFS volumes and don't mind violating the NFS > > RFCs > > and risking data loss, there is a ZFS option that helps. I don't use > > ZFS, but I think the option is (sync=disabled) or something like > > that. > > (ZFS folks can help out, if you want that.) Even using > > vfs.nfsrv.async=1 > > breaks the above. > > > thank you for answering. i don't use or plan to use ZFS. and i am > aware of > this NFS "feature" but i don't understand - even with syncs disabled, > why > writes are not clustered. i always see 32kB writes in systat > The old (default on NFSv3) server sets the maximum wsize to 32K. The new (default on 9) sets it to MAXBSIZE, which is currently 64K, but I would like to get that increased. (A quick test suggested that the kernel works when MAXBSIZE is set to 128K, but I haven't done much testing yet.) > > when running unfsd from ports it doesn't have that problem and works > FASTER than kernel nfs. But you had taken out fsync() calls, which breaks the protocol, as above. rick > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 15:47:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E5C106564A for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:47:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from evanm@google.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC2E8FC0A for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:47:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl9 with SMTP id l9so1657886yen.13 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:47:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-system-of-record; bh=Uf0zfmiul03oHBR0eAoUEyljZWQWku9UsWf1hQrR4bo=; b=h5KdAFY5IPtJEulAe5jgxrhLXv4mdjemxKBRvsa6H6QS3BQiJcaiXYx2hhum3yyeS5 jOOCplq8XfFlMs9vGAu3DyK2AftPqoIidQXrU3jR6T5zX+cROANf7YL6ZJnGCcOZ/2EA FCzXggYReFjdMLWMLr9p+o1kiTXTIXbSbQpLbcKpY4esQlUwn1J8C8DpDPytaL4PTK7N BaiMjJmIOF/3vdSnz/bWF2Ppz5xdpOA0j5XcOfM7Q8fJNFTexe9PkinENbmnqWVC+eYj 3ruz4rYcSkusIe/ZH9S0kW4IpcRWQyOMMvMDJxfLAzhrJQAVg8rPj6uss/zfSjVYqOB0 s9mw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-system-of-record:x-gm-message-state; bh=Uf0zfmiul03oHBR0eAoUEyljZWQWku9UsWf1hQrR4bo=; b=bQCQTJYAYkaokZXvNaPKSOBdQU6wuI4MVG8Cvn6KUdCJXVLDmj9C9q/AXt+Vi1eJ/H SC6zwW4bCWh0i9nRv5ZAp+A7R0WzCq8nmOY1P7RRD63FRGA+TF0UEm920Z3uLEUYJ9gr Wmz1wKl9hkyZIFTHf2jyXy9BZB/4AiRWYrL5Jartl4eXkI+1gvlbXZPQtweD+tQRrx+u MJ0dMA99s+LyDivlPw6vbf6Bo6sMTF0gTIHw5TxOep5/UqBNNahYKsrmIs2xgomexGns TJcEhfsXGYNXeeAk6EG5+R6+a1jVCCEAUBqJUioOl2ZWVRQyeiBpjyN2dPpoL0dn1mqT uufA== Received: by 10.236.78.70 with SMTP id f46mr22309142yhe.99.1335800841394; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:47:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.78.70 with SMTP id f46mr22309126yhe.99.1335800841276; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Sender: evanm@google.com Received: by 10.101.156.21 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:47:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120428144745.GA40844@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> References: <20120428144745.GA40844@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:47:21 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: vRdajpDd6hFBFODYfDitrja6oWM Message-ID: From: Evan Martin To: Luigi Rizzo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-System-Of-Record: true X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkzyXTdEYAeqmvWOay7VkcrMnESB5mWPgS3gVr7y5S6GoLYdd2jlqM9VFoC2GsbjcMfCsHyyTk0TneV3vIsyAh9YftG2E/mO+Mh++IC/llmfuxzSB6Io1Zoq1eOevZitypIcmqAgKCOfFeARqb7gQHpH1TGwg== X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:53:33 +0000 Cc: chromium@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to display C sources in Chromium (file:/// only) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:47:22 -0000 On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > (hoping this is of interest for hackers- too) > > One of the most annoying features of chromium is that it downloads > instead of displaying various types of files (.c, .h and so on). This has long annoyed me too! > it seems that a partial fix can be achieved by arring the list of > types we want to display to the array > > =A0 =A0static const char* const supported_non_image_types[] =3D { > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0... > + =A0 =A0 =A0 "text/x-csrc", > + =A0 =A0 =A0 "text/x-chdr", > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0... > =A0 =A0} There's a comment at the end of the block: // Note: ADDING a new type here will probably render it AS HTML. This can // result in cross site scripting. I wonder how to tell? If you follow the references back from the definition of this variable it appears to end up used here: http://code.google.com/searchframe#OAMlx_jo-ck/src/third_party/WebKit/Sourc= e/WebCore/loader/FrameLoader.cpp&exact_package=3Dchromium&ct=3Drc&cd=3D10&q= =3DIsSupportedNonImageMimeType&l=3D859 which just indicates it's used when WebKit is deciding whether to inline the content or not. It seems to me like you could adjust the code in MimeUtil::IsSupportedNonImageMimeType to always return true for any text/* mime type. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Apr 30 19:03:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF340106566C; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:03:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from luigi@onelab2.iet.unipi.it) Received: from onelab2.iet.unipi.it (onelab2.iet.unipi.it [131.114.59.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA468FC0C; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:03:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by onelab2.iet.unipi.it (Postfix, from userid 275) id 9B2D97300A; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:23:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:23:05 +0200 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Evan Martin Message-ID: <20120430192305.GA72227@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> References: <20120428144745.GA40844@onelab2.iet.unipi.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: chromium@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: how to display C sources in Chromium (file:/// only) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:03:24 -0000 On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 08:47:21AM -0700, Evan Martin wrote: > On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > (hoping this is of interest for hackers- too) > > > > One of the most annoying features of chromium is that it downloads > > instead of displaying various types of files (.c, .h and so on). > > This has long annoyed me too! > > > it seems that a partial fix can be achieved by arring the list of > > types we want to display to the array > > > > ? ?static const char* const supported_non_image_types[] = { > > ? ? ? ?... > > + ? ? ? "text/x-csrc", > > + ? ? ? "text/x-chdr", > > ? ? ? ?... > > ? ?} > > There's a comment at the end of the block: > // Note: ADDING a new type here will probably render it AS HTML. This can > // result in cross site scripting. > I wonder how to tell? I think that the comment is partially or completely wrong. As one can easily verify, if the server reports "Content-Type: text/plain" the data is displayed as plain text even if it contains some html. There must be another layer which decides how to render the content but this list is only a YES/NO indication. > If you follow the references back from the definition of this variable > it appears to end up used here: > http://code.google.com/searchframe#OAMlx_jo-ck/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/WebCore/loader/FrameLoader.cpp&exact_package=chromium&ct=rc&cd=10&q=IsSupportedNonImageMimeType&l=859 > which just indicates it's used when WebKit is deciding whether to > inline the content or not. > > It seems to me like you could adjust the code in > MimeUtil::IsSupportedNonImageMimeType to always return true for any > text/* mime type. I wouldn't be surprised if there were an easy override in some config file. This issue has been mentioned for ages on the chrome issue database, often referring at the correct behaviour of other browser e.g. Firefox. Some relevant entries: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=24675 http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=118204 http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=106150 But i remember seeing many others, some closed, some with a long trail eventually mentioning deep security or architectural issues as a motivation not to implement the feature. After finding out the .local/share/mime/globs2 trick, i really believe that those answers really meant "I have no idea why it is so, and i am too afraid of breaking something to even consider changing things" Annoying but understandable given the size of the code cheers luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 05:01:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1D11065E01 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:01:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB838FC12 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:01:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q4150oZr005918; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:00:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q4150nGL005915; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:00:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:00:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Peter Jeremy In-Reply-To: <20120430085748.GA56921@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> Message-ID: References: <20120430085748.GA56921@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 01 May 2012 07:00:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 05:01:05 -0000 i tried nfsv4, tested under FreeBSD over localhost and it is roughly the same. am i doing something wrong? On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2012-Apr-27 22:05:42 +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> is there any way to speed up NFS server? > ... >> - write works terribly. it performs sync on every write IMHO, > > You don't mention which NFS server or NFS version you are using but > for "traditional" NFS, this is by design. The NFS server is stateless > and NFS server failures are transparent (other than time-wise) to the > client. This means that once the server acknowledges a write, it > guarantees the client will be able to later retrieve that data, even > if the server crashes. This implies that the server needs to do a > synchronous write to disk before it can return the acknowledgement > back to the client. > > -- > Peter Jeremy > From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 05:02:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E8C1067639 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:02:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E43A8FC12 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:02:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q4152nFl005925; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:02:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q4152nl1005922; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:02:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:02:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Rick Macklem In-Reply-To: <1970100135.114428.1335787081556.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: References: <1970100135.114428.1335787081556.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 01 May 2012 07:02:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 05:02:53 -0000 > new (default on 9) sets it to MAXBSIZE, which is currently 64K, but > I would like to get that increased. (A quick test suggested that the > kernel works when MAXBSIZE is set to 128K, but I haven't done much > testing yet.) >From a long time my kernels have MAXBSIZE of 2 megabytes which is right value for modern hard drives and gives FAR better performance. I don't know why it isn't default. I will test NFSv4 again today. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 05:10:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0561D10673C8 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:10:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531F88FC16 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 05:10:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q4159kt9005943; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:09:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q4159j0i005940; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:09:45 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:09:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 01 May 2012 07:09:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Andy Young , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 05:10:42 -0000 > Advertising that it exists and is used is more important than saying "x sucks, use y instead". This is the tone I was getting from the previous response and this is what I discourage as well as others on the list. It was just an example. I don't use FreeBSD because Oracle Solaris sucks but because it works best for me. No other unix not only is as fast but allows so easy tuning like compiling own kernel and configuring things. What do you prefer - few files in /etc, like rc.conf to configure almost everything in base system (+starting installed ports), or thousands of files in modern "linux distro" or oracle solaris? Sorry but when i HAD to deal with linux i just deleted most of /etc and write my own /etc/rc. Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are just useless. Linux is "trendy" and quality is second thing, but it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS at all, like VoIP gateway. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 06:34:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9BE1065672 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:34:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanegomi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBD58FC2B for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 06:34:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadz14 with SMTP id z14so981341dad.17 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:34:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=F525r70QxXT8U2UrXGQ4RTYJGcpzp+nbTjBCO3zT1I0=; b=A6H8IvWyW0+Mx4yKGMDcI6sVfSIoRGB3zd+kxAg9Vrsx/BeXBsYHi9tj7RjEo85lSE bqkI3EPj9MvWKnUdkKMIRKv4Tc22ScbItmmnk1CiPcqwTmAeABfcao9GYmOemp+Xrb3L +Y4QDJdKpVgeGzYG16KwJgDyTQr/RVQwjGXfQvbILRQjs33cgb+cHtb7S8YTWOhfAUz6 QyMKoMklzzju71iow+WmcLBh3m78VE/yuhGdJAk9pf02VC1PFkhhR6qXTO9FNZiMy+VU cJGfJyNvdmBmPF8rKtVGFWsaZRd9Ug8DkBRkxi6QYC9arWtHHZkzRMdjF7hBpA9RPNxg gk7Q== Received: by 10.68.227.134 with SMTP id sa6mr40903836pbc.101.1335854043409; Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fuji.netgear.com ([50.125.30.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 2sm18357308pbw.57.2012.04.30.23.34.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:34:02 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Andy Young , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 06:34:04 -0000 On Apr 30, 2012, at 10:09 PM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> Advertising that it exists and is used is more important than = saying "x sucks, use y instead". This is the tone I was getting from the = previous response and this is what I discourage as well as others on the = list. >=20 > It was just an example. I don't use FreeBSD because Oracle Solaris = sucks but because it works best for me. No other unix not only is as = fast but allows so easy tuning like compiling own kernel and configuring = things. >=20 > What do you prefer - few files in /etc, like rc.conf to configure = almost everything in base system (+starting installed ports), or = thousands of files in modern "linux distro" or oracle solaris? >=20 > Sorry but when i HAD to deal with linux i just deleted most of /etc = and write my own /etc/rc. Joe user, students, etc really don't care about the underlying system as = long as the GUIs obscure this. OSX is a prime example of this (the OSX = CLI has sucked for a long time). Only sysadmin and CLI power users care = how things like this are organized. I think this is the usability boat = that's been missed for a while on *nix. > Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are just = useless. Linux is "trendy" and quality is second thing, but it had to = be everywhere including things that should not have OS at all, like VoIP = gateway. Sun isn't Oracle, so I don't expect them to put forth a decent general = purpose OS offering. As far as Linux is concerned, in some ways it's = good Linux has become a niche OS, and in some ways it's bad, but you = can't take back the fact that it is what it is right now. Thanks, -Garrett= From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 07:26:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BDB106566C for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:26:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52A18FC0C for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:26:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q417QVPm006588; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:26:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q417QUiE006585; Tue, 1 May 2012 09:26:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:26:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Garrett Cooper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 01 May 2012 09:26:31 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Rick Macklem , Jerry McAllister , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Steven Hartland , Andy Young , Chris Rees Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 07:26:48 -0000 > > Joe user, students, etc really don't care about the underlying system as long as the GUIs obscure this. Indeed you are right. Actually they don't completely know what happens. This is normal, but the poor word in your sentence is "students". Unfortunately, from my observations, this is completely true. >OSX is a prime example of this (the OSX CLI has sucked for a long time). > Only sysadmin and CLI power users care how things like this are >organized. I think this is the usability boat that's been missed for a >while on *nix. True. And my point is - don't promote FreeBSD in that area. Mac OS X, Windows, "Modern" linux distros will always be "better" than FreeBSD when judged by joe user who "owns" computer. Yes i used parantheses in "owns" because he/she don't really own her computer, just paid for it and is enslaved. FreeBSD can be great when used by "joe user" BUT when joe user does not install it, configure it or know root password at all, but QUALIFIED sysadmin configured everything for joe. "Joe" may use thin client to connect to timesharing server with FreeBSD and this is my favourite example. (actually i use X terminal made from obsolete PCs line pentium 133-500MHz PII, which are intentionally downclocked and fans removed, disks removed - SILENCE, low power). Even with trendy GUI (but configured by root user, not joe user) it works quick, fast and predictable with cost of servicing close to zero. This is right target for FreeBSD "advertising" IMHO, but not "personal computer" market. Again i used parantheses for "personal computer" as for many years users don't completely know what is going on on "their" computers and are owned by them. Do you now finally understood what i mean and why i am against your kind of "promotion"? You won't promote Ferrari for people that now use everyday small city car. Inexperienced driver can only kill him/herself given top line Ferrari, and trying to make Ferrari to by "easy to use" will badly reduce it's performance. > >> Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are just useless. Linux is "trendy" and quality is second thing, but it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS at all, like VoIP gateway. > > Sun isn't Oracle, so I don't expect them to put forth a decent general purpose OS offering. As far as Linux is concerned, in some ways it's good Linux has become a niche OS, and in some ways it's bad, but you can't take back the fact that it is what it is right now. Sun IS Oracle from some time. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 11:37:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E548C1065674 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:37:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from esa-jnhn.mail.uoguelph.ca (esa-jnhn.mail.uoguelph.ca [131.104.91.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849658FC12 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 11:37:32 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlUFANvJn0+DaFvO/2dsb2JhbABEhWmpfoQIggkBAQEDAQEBASArIAsFFg4KAgINGQIpAQkmBggHBAEcBIdnBQunJ5JQgS+JVwaEZYEYBJNPgi+BEY8xgwSBOQc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,510,1330923600"; d="scan'208";a="170226752" Received: from erie.cs.uoguelph.ca (HELO zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca) ([131.104.91.206]) by esa-jnhn-pri.mail.uoguelph.ca with ESMTP; 01 May 2012 07:37:31 -0400 Received: from zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zcs3.mail.uoguelph.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CED9B4035; Tue, 1 May 2012 07:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:37:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Macklem To: Wojciech Puchar Message-ID: <482299836.184445.1335872251190.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.17.91.202] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.10_GA_2692 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/6.0.10_GA_2692) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 11:37:33 -0000 Wojciech Puchar wrote: > i tried nfsv4, tested under FreeBSD over localhost and it is roughly > the > same. am i doing something wrong? > Probably not. NFSv4 writes are done exactly the same as NFSv3. (It changes other stuff, like locking, adding support for ACLs, etc.) I do have a patch that allows the client to do more extension caching to local disk in the client (called Packrats), but that isn't ready for prime time yet. NFSv4.1 optionally supports pNFS, where reading and writing can be done to Data Servers (DS) separate from the NFS (called Metadata Server or MDS). I`m working on the client side of this, but it is also a work-in-progress and no work on a NFSv4.1 server for FreeBSD has been done yet, as far as I know. If you have increased MAXBSIZE in both the client and server machines and use the new (experimental in 8.x) client and server, they will use a larger rsize, wsize for NFSv3 as well as NFSv4. (Capturing packets and looking at them in wireshark will tell you what the actual rsize, wsize is. A patch to nfsstat to get the actual mount options in use is another of my `to do`items. If anyone else wants to work on this, I`d be happy to help them. > On Mon, 30 Apr 2012, Peter Jeremy wrote: > > > On 2012-Apr-27 22:05:42 +0200, Wojciech Puchar > > wrote: > >> is there any way to speed up NFS server? > > ... > >> - write works terribly. it performs sync on every write IMHO, > > > > You don't mention which NFS server or NFS version you are using but > > for "traditional" NFS, this is by design. The NFS server is > > stateless > > and NFS server failures are transparent (other than time-wise) to > > the > > client. This means that once the server acknowledges a write, it > > guarantees the client will be able to later retrieve that data, even > > if the server crashes. This implies that the server needs to do a > > synchronous write to disk before it can return the acknowledgement > > back to the client. > > > > -- > > Peter Jeremy > > Btw, For NFSv3 and 4, the story is slightly different than the above. A client can do writes with a flag that is either FILESYNC or UNSTABLE. For FILESYNC, the server must do exactly what the above says. That is, the data and any required metadata changes, must be on stable storage before the server replies to the RPC. For UNSTABLE, the server can simply save the data in memory and reply OK to the RPC. For this case, the client needs to do a separate Commit RPC later and the server must store the data on stable storage at that time. (For this case, the client needs to keep the data written UNSTABLE in its cache and be prepared to re-write it, if the server reboots before the Commit RPC is done.) - When any app. does a fsync(2), the client needs to do a Commit RPC if it has been doing UNSTABLE writes. Most clients, including FreeBSD, do writes with UNSTABLE. However, one limitation on the FreeBSD client is that it currently only keeps track of one contiguous modified byte range in a buffer cache block. When an app. in the client does non-contiguous writes to the same buffer cache block, it must write the old modified byte range to the server with FILESYNC before it copies the newly written data into the buffer cache block. This happens frequently for builds during the loader phase. (jhb and I have looked at this. I have an experimental patch that makes the modified byte range a list, but it requires changes to struct buf. I think it is worth persuing. It is a client side patch, since that is where things can be improved, if clients avoid doing FILESYNC or frequent Commit RPCs.) rick > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 13:14:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34786106564A; Tue, 1 May 2012 13:14:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jlh@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp5-g21.free.fr (smtp5-g21.free.fr [IPv6:2a01:e0c:1:1599::14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10F3A8FC14; Tue, 1 May 2012 13:14:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from endor.tataz.chchile.org (unknown [82.233.239.98]) by smtp5-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82052D48098; Tue, 1 May 2012 15:14:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from felucia.tataz.chchile.org (felucia.tataz.chchile.org [192.168.1.9]) by endor.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABBC2F8; Tue, 1 May 2012 15:14:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: by felucia.tataz.chchile.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3AFC3EBEC; Tue, 1 May 2012 13:14:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 15:14:01 +0200 From: Jeremie Le Hen To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20120501131401.GA86527@felucia.tataz.chchile.org> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="gKMricLos+KVdGMg" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Subject: Optionally have ld(1) script instead of symlink for .so X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 13:14:10 -0000 --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I plan to commit the attached patch. It brings a new variable for library Makefiles (SHLIB_LDSCRIPT). When defined, it contains the name of a template file used to generate the ld(1) script. Two variables may appear in the template file: - @@SHLIB@@ will be substituted by the real shared library full path (${SHLIBDIR}/${SHLIB_NAME}); - @@LIBDIR@@ will be substituted with ${LIBDIR}. This is wrapped with some cursed magic to allow building 32bits libraries on 64bits platforms and cross-building. This is the first step toward being able to build ports with SSP painlessly. Any comment or concern? -- Jeremie Le Hen Men are born free and equal. Later on, they're on their own. Jean Yanne --gKMricLos+KVdGMg Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ldscript.diff" diff -r 897395797d88 -r bc47fd6cab07 Makefile.inc1 --- a/Makefile.inc1 Sun Apr 29 00:02:52 2012 +0200 +++ b/Makefile.inc1 Sun Apr 29 00:09:30 2012 +0200 @@ -265,6 +265,7 @@ # world stage WMAKEENV= ${CROSSENV} \ _SHLIBDIRPREFIX=${WORLDTMP} \ + _LDSCRIPTROOT= \ VERSION="${VERSION}" \ INSTALL="sh ${.CURDIR}/tools/install.sh" \ PATH=${TMPPATH} @@ -307,6 +308,7 @@ # Yes, the flags are redundant. LIB32WMAKEENV+= MAKEOBJDIRPREFIX=${OBJTREE}/lib32 \ _SHLIBDIRPREFIX=${LIB32TMP} \ + _LDSCRIPTROOT=${LIB32TMP} \ VERSION="${VERSION}" \ INSTALL="sh ${.CURDIR}/tools/install.sh" \ PATH=${TMPPATH} \ @@ -319,11 +321,11 @@ -DWITHOUT_BIND -DWITHOUT_MAN -DWITHOUT_INFO \ -DWITHOUT_HTML -DNO_CTF -DNO_LINT -ECC -ECXX -EAS -ELD \ DESTDIR=${LIB32TMP} -LIB32IMAKE= ${LIB32WMAKE:NINSTALL=*:NDESTDIR=*} -DNO_INCS +LIB32IMAKE= ${LIB32WMAKE:NINSTALL=*:NDESTDIR=*:N_LDSCRIPTROOT=*} -DNO_INCS .endif # install stage -IMAKEENV= ${CROSSENV} +IMAKEENV= ${CROSSENV:N_LDSCRIPTROOT=*} IMAKE= ${IMAKEENV} ${MAKE} -f Makefile.inc1 .if empty(.MAKEFLAGS:M-n) IMAKEENV+= PATH=${STRICTTMPPATH}:${INSTALLTMP} \ diff -r 897395797d88 -r bc47fd6cab07 share/mk/bsd.lib.mk --- a/share/mk/bsd.lib.mk Sun Apr 29 00:02:52 2012 +0200 +++ b/share/mk/bsd.lib.mk Sun Apr 29 00:09:30 2012 +0200 @@ -271,6 +271,15 @@ ${_INSTALLFLAGS} ${_SHLINSTALLFLAGS} \ ${SHLIB_NAME} ${DESTDIR}${SHLIBDIR} .if defined(SHLIB_LINK) +# _LDSCRIPTROOT and _SHLIBDIRPREFIX serve almost the same purpose but the +# former needs to be empty during installworld while the later does not. +.if defined(SHLIB_LDSCRIPT) && !empty(SHLIB_LDSCRIPT) && exists(${.CURDIR}/${SHLIB_LDSCRIPT}) + sed -e 's,@@SHLIB@@,${_LDSCRIPTROOT}${SHLIBDIR}/${SHLIB_NAME},g' \ + -e 's,@@LIBDIR@@,${_LDSCRIPTROOT}${LIBDIR},g' \ + ${.CURDIR}/${SHLIB_LDSCRIPT} > lib${LIB}.ld + ${INSTALL} -S -C -o ${LIBOWN} -g ${LIBGRP} -m ${LIBMODE} \ + ${_INSTALLFLAGS} lib${LIB}.ld ${DESTDIR}${LIBDIR}/${SHLIB_LINK} +.else .if ${SHLIBDIR} == ${LIBDIR} ln -fs ${SHLIB_NAME} ${DESTDIR}${LIBDIR}/${SHLIB_LINK} .else @@ -281,8 +290,9 @@ rm -f ${DESTDIR}${LIBDIR}/${SHLIB_NAME} .endif .endif -.endif -.endif +.endif # SHLIB_LDSCRIPT +.endif # SHLIB_LINK +.endif # SHIB_NAME .if defined(INSTALL_PIC_ARCHIVE) && defined(LIB) && !empty(LIB) && ${MK_TOOLCHAIN} != "no" ${INSTALL} -o ${LIBOWN} -g ${LIBGRP} -m ${LIBMODE} \ ${_INSTALLFLAGS} lib${LIB}_pic.a ${DESTDIR}${LIBDIR} @@ -350,6 +360,9 @@ .endif .if defined(SHLIB_NAME) .if defined(SHLIB_LINK) +.if defined(SHLIB_LDSCRIPT) && exists(${.CURDIR}/${SHLIB_LDSCRIPT}) + rm -f lib${LIB}.ld +.endif rm -f ${SHLIB_LINK} .endif .if defined(LIB) && !empty(LIB) --gKMricLos+KVdGMg-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 14:04:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8241065670 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:04:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com) Received: from nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm16-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.91.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 561C48FC08 for ; Tue, 1 May 2012 14:04:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.91.66] by nm16.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 14:04:24 -0000 Received: from [208.71.42.211] by tm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 14:04:23 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp222.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 May 2012 14:04:23 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1335881063; bh=pZQTGQzToSd6cKI59eUFFAFVLqU9u9HJSjp6Vi60zkE=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Face:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KLKSkBgUNlYCEtBH8w/ZBiZ9EnnWSvY/6mKAUaoHEbrb7DAqJSUnA87vV2GVfFG8TbPwyOZZRSj+79BIMfy7DqvGSSd2vha+OVx6DuWT/7LKCSLRRgJ9Dzkl6XUEnLC45Aux8FhMeazvTB4seGTk44MrduiKj51H/2QjtMdkrLk= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 744542.92334.bm@smtp222.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: oxP_cfEVM1nJRS4mGIXUMIXgb5ivW8E79Acau9mjTh4OJyb jN2ZWzkBNXk.i8WIhWip41I861GmIiv8F6bSlkGEymgeDGJz89XEZMqOL5sf 738WrmVH..mI.NrmbaVNRI5z_J1gVDsunOVUBMHqQDfhWEDSIXMtcwzrvzSO FvolStwuEnRGLlF_1ke5J8QjBqOWJnKui7f30a75BTmQMDs9L.gJaIz4yUsJ HtOU0r02QQGTdTjxyDYAg8Kqx96QrAAdVIlHWNAb4ddvYacGaLYCbJGkya24 HcIKAUMxkbuCkP1r8hyK9CklTkUvCtNmNd31t9YxJcU5rA0lyzaxx36T7_i_ fAn7.h0_cdgLLzUyOchthsgrR554quIJ3hHunE6_CqsXxo6Rg.Wuj.piFkIn u X-Yahoo-SMTP: uW3vktqswBBwhzUUqSfIo9IQDlOyJjOVATmsCrk- Received: from virus.local (c.hutchinson0@107.61.1.117 with login) by smtp222.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 May 2012 07:04:22 -0700 PDT Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 07:04:14 -0700 From: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <20120501070414.450ff252@virus.local> In-Reply-To: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> X-Face: $mXi*82up^b>]TbwAyL%A8i^<*; noU6K:r#25QhoV@u[FYZ}`:LJ.g6+'oVI^|LuV~\+3i"#++*|t74; --SZKI/!BFCopG(kR$}T=J6uPma-=qk5ZhU#S">\hUKl{g((V7*MGgn>T~_cFs-UQU4b+o7Jiv Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 14:04:24 -0000 On Tue, 1 May 2012 09:26:30 +0200 (CEST) Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > Joe user, students, etc really don't care about the underlying > > system as long as the GUIs obscure this. > Indeed you are right. Actually they don't completely know what > happens. This is normal, but the poor word in your sentence is > "students". Unfortunately, from my observations, this is completely > true. > > >OSX is a prime example of this (the OSX CLI has sucked for a long > >time). > > Only sysadmin and CLI power users care how things like this are > >organized. I think this is the usability boat that's been missed for > >a while on *nix. > > True. And my point is - don't promote FreeBSD in that area. Mac OS X, > Windows, "Modern" linux distros will always be "better" than FreeBSD > when judged by joe user who "owns" computer. > > Yes i used parantheses in "owns" because he/she don't really own her > computer, just paid for it and is enslaved. > > FreeBSD can be great when used by "joe user" BUT when joe user does > not install it, configure it or know root password at all, but > QUALIFIED sysadmin configured everything for joe. > > "Joe" may use thin client to connect to timesharing server with > FreeBSD and this is my favourite example. > > (actually i use X terminal made from obsolete PCs line pentium > 133-500MHz PII, which are intentionally downclocked and fans removed, > disks removed - SILENCE, low power). > > Even with trendy GUI (but configured by root user, not joe user) it > works quick, fast and predictable with cost of servicing close to > zero. > > This is right target for FreeBSD "advertising" IMHO, but not > "personal computer" market. > > Again i used parantheses for "personal computer" as for many years > users don't completely know what is going on on "their" computers and > are owned by them. I think "The power to serve", pretty much sums it up nicely. :-) > > > > Do you now finally understood what i mean and why i am against your > kind of "promotion"? > > You won't promote Ferrari for people that now use everyday small city > car. Inexperienced driver can only kill him/herself given top line > Ferrari, and trying to make Ferrari to by "easy to use" will badly > reduce it's performance. > > > > >> Solaris 11 was just an example of overadvertised things that are > >> just useless. Linux is "trendy" and quality is second thing, but > >> it had to be everywhere including things that should not have OS > >> at all, like VoIP gateway. > > > > Sun isn't Oracle, so I don't expect them to put forth a decent > > general purpose OS offering. As far as Linux is concerned, in some > > ways it's good Linux has become a niche OS, and in some ways it's > > bad, but you can't take back the fact that it is what it is right > > now. > While I know this probably seems pointless, based on your observation(s). I can't help but wonder if initiating a "BSD awareness day", might not be a bad idea. I can see where, if targeted at students, this might be especially effective -- this IS where BSD all started, wasn't it? :-) just my $0.02 :-) > Sun IS Oracle from some time. Right you are!. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 1 20:21:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CACD7106564A; Tue, 1 May 2012 20:21:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (alchemy.franken.de [194.94.249.214]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605D48FC0A; Tue, 1 May 2012 20:21:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alchemy.franken.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alchemy.franken.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/ALCHEMY.FRANKEN.DE) with ESMTP id q41KLSnv048184; Tue, 1 May 2012 22:21:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius@alchemy.franken.de) Received: (from marius@localhost) by alchemy.franken.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id q41KLSbq048183; Tue, 1 May 2012 22:21:28 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from marius) Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 22:21:28 +0200 From: Marius Strobl To: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <20120501202128.GD18650@alchemy.franken.de> References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9A6180.8090500@FreeBSD.org> <20120429164623.GG68446@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9E3971.7090405@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F9E3971.7090405@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 20:21:29 -0000 On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 10:04:17AM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 29/04/2012 19:46 Marius Strobl said the following: > > Given that you certainly have a well better knowledge of ZFS, it > > would be great if we could do it the other way around, i.e. commit > > the sparc64 support first and then your patch after adapting > > whatever you have in mind with things becoming different. In other > > words, I'm basically ready to commit the following patch. As for > > zfs_dev_init() this just wraps it in #if defined(__amd64__) || > > defined(__i386__) in zfs.c for now. > > http://people.freebsd.org/~marius/boot_zfs_sparc64.diff > > OK, let's do it this way. > Thanks! Marius From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 08:55:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62EAA106564A for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:55:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gkeramidas@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com (mail-lpp01m010-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCA2B8FC12 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:55:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lagv3 with SMTP id v3so354276lag.13 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 01:55:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3mntkGmo3nd7dfIUmYta2k3I3K/DxqKruAlvA8dLTSU=; b=w0OEyCsW+uGIFCJO4xQXDx1teZuDzYeRKG9bY4bxq/eNmtqaNqb23ps+uOnAwOHIIy XS6FDxu/mQJrP3YfZnJZLB8s2Os+Nq92yc+NGqgj2LAMy/w31NPX0RT7+sFONC86zz5G xuCqY3MR3tjK6rf02+ETbEPkXyF0MMG2LdEjJp8lsthS2hd9jk4tOiGESnWR0HICKt7k IVwtKUOR2vfP1BtlScqfRprK3ev0NP7drZ+Ox0W4zhs1cLbFY5uGbPz3HyfS+qBvNks1 MzhMoPiC1nHdCH8DuUsyssrSllYLO9lP7tp94zbCFX/hxRZgShiI1Fqdnm0TttX5uBSp SicA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.103.209 with SMTP id fy17mr11901413lab.48.1335948908530; Wed, 02 May 2012 01:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gkeramidas@gmail.com Received: by 10.152.131.37 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2012 01:55:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 10:55:08 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: cmEay-TpvtqvPARNqxpImC3TZyA Message-ID: From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Jerry McAllister , Wojciech Puchar , Andy Young , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 08:55:10 -0000 On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respect = to > desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop > users . > > For them , it is very easy to "harden" FreeBSD after installation if ever > it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question to a= sk > : > > Will =C2=A0this be used as a Server ? Judging from the amount of effort it takes to "harden" a system that already starts a thousand services (typical "desktop Linux" scenario these days), and the number of times I've seen this sort of customization cause even more headaches, I'd say this is a slightly exaggerated statement. You are right that a "plain user" does not care about why their CD-ROM is not accessible after installation, but there are two different ways to approach this: - Install and enable everything by default, hoping that nothing bad happens when an unused service is exploitable. - Install a minimal system and build from there. Most Linux distributions pick the first option. _Some_ Linux distributions pick the second option (e.g. Gentoo). The default FreeBSD installation uses the second option. PC-BSD leans towards the first option, and does a really good job at making a BSD desktop 'accessible' to what is usually called "the average user". So it all depends on what you want to do, and there _are_ options that cover both cases for either Linux or BSD. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 12:33:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17EF11065676 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 12:33:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@cs.stonybrook.edu) Received: from edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu (edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu [130.245.9.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0A28FC0C for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 12:33:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from HUBCAS1.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.206) by edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:34:20 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.2] (72.89.250.133) by hubcas1.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.212) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Wed, 2 May 2012 08:33:23 -0400 Message-ID: <4FA12980.6080101@cs.stonybrook.edu> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 08:33:04 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Giorgos Keramidas References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCD3CD4780B23C213F7499218" X-Originating-IP: [72.89.250.133] Cc: Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Andy, Wojciech Puchar , Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 12:33:24 -0000 --------------enigCD3CD4780B23C213F7499218 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/02/12 04:55, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > wrote: >> Another point is that server installers are highly educated with respe= ct to >> desktop installers and their numbers are small with respect to desktop= >> users . >> >> For them , it is very easy to "harden" FreeBSD after installation if e= ver >> it is needed , because during installation , it is a simple question t= o ask >> : >> >> Will this be used as a Server ? >=20 > Judging from the amount of effort it takes to "harden" a system > that already starts a thousand services (typical "desktop Linux" > scenario these days), and the number of times I've seen this > sort of customization cause even more headaches, I'd say this > is a slightly exaggerated statement. You might be thinking of SELinux, which is not the only option for hardening. The Gentoo Hardened project offers multiple options for hardening, of which SELinux is only one: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/ http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/primer.xml The PaX/GrSecurity patchset for Linux provides strong ASLR to the both the kernel and userland. To my knowledge, the only BSD that supports ASLR is OpenBSD. > You are right that a "plain user" does not care about why their > CD-ROM is not accessible after installation, but there are two > different ways to approach this: >=20 > - Install and enable everything by default, hoping that nothing > bad happens when an unused service is exploitable. > - Install a minimal system and build from there. >=20 > Most Linux distributions pick the first option. _Some_ Linux > distributions pick the second option (e.g. Gentoo). You might be thinking of Gentoo Linux, rather than Gentoo. The term Gentoo also covers Gentoo/FreeBSD and Gentoo Prefix. Gentoo/FreeBSD replaces the Linux kernel and GNU userland with FreeBSD while Gentoo Prefix provides a userland package manager to UNIX-compatible systems: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/fbsd/index.xml http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/prefix/ Neither Gentoo/FreeBSD nor Gentoo Prefix are Linux distributions, so it would be better to refer to Gentoo Linux when talking about the Gentoo Linux distribution. Also, Gentoo's minimalist design is not a form of hardening provided by the Gentoo Hardened project. Most Gentoo Hardened users would not consider it to be hardening. --------------enigCD3CD4780B23C213F7499218 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPoSmDAAoJELFAT5FmjZuEefUQALy9+3wNB0vzUeVHh4P9pWkc Xr/Ff6Hci3EB4/tRgyVH8e+cchpBOrpltlAaknDjRtzigdQISAzJO/J/CzjPuowO BfF+l+Nt7F40+YKolTLrXmlRCV2BZawxurCLMrEotoO10BFKxVb/r1GwrJjPt74p WdosqbSQkoVvNgQ235SNVib0lwh2ZrnesUurzKqAuUZbh2fSXUIJO8f+VQkV6gGq BX6ADJbCZIrpKkyo5MPs9y2sYTJaUXTHK5HLho4ZNajrQh9ued8sIwTH3mjriIs3 FhNURoFjQkahnHgiPEvirN+9l99XPaqhO9toSIRDsLeAKIXlRbT6SMli2cBWqRbP E428hS0J9CPVcxhJKnxL+FTxnuADPEjGvNwsHLJrfBX6OpMN1RThEC56YAzAxHM+ 9n2I171KblsLhpEajepkUW3FK5OBueLtCJ3i8EIzUPDF76HmOMHzYaX+Vg4X99ln d58yu64RBTAA27jtEJSa+MeeL5Pt7gQTeU/FflkNdQCoKdF8fB5Q1+ui43Toqqtb iAzVJcohbGFbu+EDuiaM7bNhQO5O3GqucQ0nXCF3SCizLrEh7iNvJt4gSSAP6zxu sEWH/aCO67M1gosQCnmDfMYGA3L+758cFpAaVlhJW/jFP+fuVr44BZBDgfQ8IZSu u9FN2a5VxVgpB0B6j7SQ =eZpa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCD3CD4780B23C213F7499218-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 14:00:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9935D106566B; Wed, 2 May 2012 14:00:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gkeramidas@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB98FC08; Wed, 2 May 2012 14:00:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lbon10 with SMTP id n10so621992lbo.13 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 07:00:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Gc2NJmLtEMpSTo2RDwFaDsi/HjEtLejW9Db/violGiA=; b=THj1KWfgoNz23FWXIMbfwYDYdDZ6JM0MFaRCPRM9W0eBSUpMlliqvcKLC79UtkfNsL a/riNQzQBqN8yPs2iXhMw/8J0w0RT/A/pGIRtsDiyJOLPBclEgvS9CiLes6R0zBI+Cem FSgeAF/88bUwgUQ7I04/+d/lVL7XDp4wdPGMOHhA7b0DLh2r5mk2ECvPDRHLNGXfa7ST ffvHN3HRBKKO61VKxyOtK3d8qykTWb6no7kSnvsYmmB4k/ipoB6fVJw8/nEUlsZN9czA oSWqF6JKpX62dH228FjCJHYPIWqTDr8rV85FdYtcIUM5FIYLzO02uf3stjFTj375xXSp bw6Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.47.161 with SMTP id e1mr15027526lbn.42.1335967247723; Wed, 02 May 2012 07:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: gkeramidas@gmail.com Received: by 10.152.131.37 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2012 07:00:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FA12980.6080101@cs.stonybrook.edu> References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <4FA12980.6080101@cs.stonybrook.edu> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 16:00:47 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: pf332jMeeRRfPx_7dszXgcgOluA Message-ID: From: Giorgos Keramidas To: Richard Yao Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Andy@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar , Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 14:00:52 -0000 On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Richard Yao wrote: >On 05/02/12 04:55, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >> Judging from the amount of effort it takes to "harden" a system >> that already starts a thousand services (typical "desktop Linux" >> scenario these days), and the number of times I've seen this >> sort of customization cause even more headaches, I'd say this >> is a slightly exaggerated statement. > > You might be thinking of SELinux, which is not the only option for > hardening. Not really, no. I was referring to the practice of starting a gazillion services by default, including dbus, avahi, ftp and http services, file sharing components, and all the rest of the stuff that is now commonly installed as part of a "Linux desktop". SELinux is indeed one form of hardening, but I wasn't referring specifically to it; exactly the opposite, in fact. >> You are right that a "plain user" does not care about why their >> CD-ROM is not accessible after installation, but there are two >> different ways to approach this: >> >> - Install and enable everything by default, hoping that nothing >> =C2=A0 bad happens when an unused service is exploitable. >> - Install a minimal system and build from there. >> >> Most Linux distributions pick the first option. _Some_ Linux >> distributions pick the second option (e.g. Gentoo). > > You might be thinking of Gentoo Linux, rather than Gentoo. The term > Gentoo also covers Gentoo/FreeBSD and Gentoo Prefix. Gentoo/FreeBSD > replaces the Linux kernel and GNU userland with FreeBSD while Gentoo > Prefix provides a userland package manager to UNIX-compatible systems: Gentoo Linux is what I was talking about. It's one of the distributions that does lean towards the "install only what is necessary" side of the spectrum. The main point is not whether Gentoo/Linux or Gentoo/BSD is the best color for the particular bikeshed though. It was that one _has_ the option both with Linux and BSD as a base to implement both types of installations. Hardening can be either an install-time property or an after-effect. It's really not OS-dependent at all. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 21:16:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E581106566C for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:16:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nparhar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306788FC0A for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:16:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so1781155pbb.13 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:16:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=K+uFOpqsI0LvX0cbH1m3EDXOh6G6IGdR56yK9Y76zv4=; b=QMgl3ujOYRq+OGMZy9HL0Pi+THdXU+WnDWvUuZb9DEov09YZYGY6F7YNGhsePpfZp2 66CowE6QL8djARmIgwf5ECFYrmIk/JV1MT1ZObPUan/gfV0eFsRcBv8sivMXJEtahi6X WNOsk+YPz+WgfgWy+9hMQWB7sxXrKT3XJG7my1EjF07Bz5L2wm8O3t9KVchzzByDEyby 40d7WxCy2SMZ8YsImHeXqeJ4BvdMeM6M6KE5tw8tYG4nA9zKQWwTnw+CqhaqsLWJ9LCT yW5LEpsrrguvfFOTrrCxOt7GRBgtawh/DGbVjETYDq+sNhsgEu5iWilR+f8NZW1eli6r dbGQ== Received: by 10.68.238.38 with SMTP id vh6mr1048040pbc.50.1335993380536; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.192.166.0] (stargate.chelsio.com. [67.207.112.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y5sm3002471pbk.5.2012.05.02.14.16.18 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 May 2012 14:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Navdeep Parhar Message-ID: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 14:16:17 -0700 From: Navdeep Parhar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120502 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 21:16:26 -0000 There seems to be a regression in 8.3 in the way the kernel selects CPUs for interrupts. For example, cxgb(4) on 8.3 ends up with all its ithreads on the same CPU (CPU7 in this case). 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:55 0.00% intr{irq279: cxgbc0} 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:52 0.00% intr{irq275: cxgbc0} 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:47 0.00% intr{irq278: cxgbc0} 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:43 0.00% intr{irq277: cxgbc0} 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:43 0.00% intr{irq282: cxgbc0} 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:41 0.00% intr{irq281: cxgbc0} 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:32 0.00% intr{irq276: cxgbc0} 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:31 0.00% intr{irq280: cxgbc0} Back in the day there used to be code in cxgb to bind different interrupts to different CPUs but it was removed because the kernel distributed them across CPUs anyway. So what changed? This appears 8.3 specific. I don't see it on head and I don't have a 9 system readily available right now. Regards, Navdeep From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 21:28:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 180671065677; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:28:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rysto32@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F6B8FC15; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:28:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by weyt57 with SMTP id t57so950402wey.13 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:28:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5FRLmdMMiShLjy2oCI3Tr94d+fX+nEJm0k97i0zF3to=; b=QqH3hW3u2W4ifyJIRf11ho7OiVhqh1lol5O38MthavVvHAsKcuP8Kf7DpZeKExzgCn JPr0w+3BWB/QZIIa9Z93E4T4LseMQM7DWCVktCzlJi5RhHitTN4GT8yxJcvMsdCJzRQi ZzusZIll5J2O84E9X/DeDPU5589MPyHeeeM9XGXbvHuJKEdxBw1tuWMfFAYUOFkeT1Sf s4s5TPwQzZG9n2zj2+rCTl4ZFMnasVclwKcTAW96xHNqHHbsc8OmQKze2EJzIRvQIT4M MdMaDhvXEpxaQh8KKdd9/dyf6lB/8qDonWEUfOEsqNhkNzzalJ//X+tnEeLsTL99hrgL PtXA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.86.197 with SMTP id r5mr14011879wiz.21.1335994125418; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:28:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.94.97 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2012 14:28:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:28:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ryan Stone To: Navdeep Parhar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 21:28:47 -0000 On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Navdeep Parhar wrote: > There seems to be a regression in 8.3 in the way the kernel selects CPUs > for interrupts. =A0For example, cxgb(4) on 8.3 ends up with all > its ithreads on the same CPU (CPU7 in this case). > > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:55 = =A00.00% intr{irq279: > cxgbc0} > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:52 = =A00.00% intr{irq275: > cxgbc0} > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:47 = =A00.00% intr{irq278: > cxgbc0} > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:43 = =A00.00% intr{irq277: > cxgbc0} > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:43 = =A00.00% intr{irq282: > cxgbc0} > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:41 = =A00.00% intr{irq281: > cxgbc0} > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:32 = =A00.00% intr{irq276: > cxgbc0} > 12 root =A0 =A0 -68 =A0 =A0- =A0 =A0 0K =A0 816K WAIT =A0 =A07 =A0 0:31 = =A00.00% intr{irq280: > cxgbc0} > > Back in the day there used to be code in cxgb to bind different > interrupts to different CPUs but it was removed because the kernel > distributed them across CPUs anyway. =A0So what changed? =A0This appears = 8.3 > specific. =A0I don't see it on head and I don't have a 9 system readily > available right now. Does r232757 fix this? That just missed 8.3-RELEASE. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 21:39:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3698B106566C for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:39:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nparhar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041B78FC12 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:39:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so1801756pbb.13 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:39:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=m+dWgsxmWaBRNVvPAsKkbXOQB3jw8o11sRpDgbPweuo=; b=wzUCwiBQx8YrhwenKKMcJ/Ae7VSEwj4fagsfdGn7oLlP43eBNMU+JAgTfbk8IFGXXf TlsvGSnYXBqXFllc1HQUuQKu/vlHaYSkfprxPnx62W7DnaP3jZOlSe+jBkqeMm/VsZWs 58WFGNCCf0YzNV9soZ1FMxY3IiayLs7jkVPJQgmUGsmsISXpVC6Ck+V9CXNIwdbnK9CD 7Bh4nWedu2cr/KI3tT1bwD5gV0LeuWByWWuI2oigP06CNe22gG5ukD7hV15SfA3JIyNf BpGs8nusYNcBQUCISV7eje8sPA9UA+t0YwIfiFOFVN5J+3bXQrhGa39iaUxNjcNyCJy0 mAPA== Received: by 10.68.129.38 with SMTP id nt6mr1224802pbb.38.1335994783560; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.192.166.0] (stargate.chelsio.com. [67.207.112.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ry4sm3049274pbc.27.2012.05.02.14.39.41 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 May 2012 14:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Navdeep Parhar Message-ID: <4FA1A99D.208@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 14:39:41 -0700 From: Navdeep Parhar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120502 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Stone References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 21:39:44 -0000 On 05/02/12 14:28, Ryan Stone wrote: > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Navdeep Parhar wrote: >> There seems to be a regression in 8.3 in the way the kernel selects CPUs >> for interrupts. For example, cxgb(4) on 8.3 ends up with all >> its ithreads on the same CPU (CPU7 in this case). >> >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:55 0.00% intr{irq279: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:52 0.00% intr{irq275: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:47 0.00% intr{irq278: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:43 0.00% intr{irq277: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:43 0.00% intr{irq282: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:41 0.00% intr{irq281: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:32 0.00% intr{irq276: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:31 0.00% intr{irq280: >> cxgbc0} >> >> Back in the day there used to be code in cxgb to bind different >> interrupts to different CPUs but it was removed because the kernel >> distributed them across CPUs anyway. So what changed? This appears 8.3 >> specific. I don't see it on head and I don't have a 9 system readily >> available right now. > > Does r232757 fix this? That just missed 8.3-RELEASE. I will try it. But would this explain why it used to work with 8.2 but broke in 8.3? Navdeep From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 21:44:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6697106564A; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rysto32@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084FB8FC16; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:44:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by weyt57 with SMTP id t57so960423wey.13 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:44:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lniNeFha9aRWbus2nT+QA0kEw+FL071IzkT2nQc3/l4=; b=LZY3Zazb2MBEP4QASc5xt/6wE1PPglD+wz3XogAKLCNlZG5eld0q3JCw5l64CyEJuS 6uKnkwOxVE53RcBC40vGCEMlnjnsV5a+oL05jwopFAKQO7hzaN3hZUahNmtNAXOGa6W5 n9d1xpFVbkE+wVdl9GBAmETOX/7OfNL0ZVjnW80LPVUfQdJK7bliTCouaIbISuMcuHEe Zi0LfaOUxcLuE8KYfqF5q41uV6KW9iWX65mJdx1Pn9LHUI1rM9hEf2mtQludigj9mvjv Qhh9gzrrq9W6LhdSkGpPBumrSEznXFVG/KVfiCMkei0bsmMPhIcI+PvHdkTmGW9i7REL o0kg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.136.72 with SMTP id v50mr4942592wei.73.1335995084218; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.94.97 with HTTP; Wed, 2 May 2012 14:44:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FA1A99D.208@FreeBSD.org> References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> <4FA1A99D.208@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:44:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ryan Stone To: Navdeep Parhar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 21:44:45 -0000 On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Navdeep Parhar wrote: > I will try it. =A0But would this explain why it used to work with 8.2 but > broke in 8.3? > > Navdeep If other driver changed between 8.2 and 8.3 to start binding intr threads to CPUs then your driver would inherit the last pinning. Or even if your driver is now attaching after another driver. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 21:48:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D48E106564A for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:48:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nparhar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f49.google.com (mail-pz0-f49.google.com [209.85.210.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4088FC15 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 21:48:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadm1 with SMTP id m1so517689dad.8 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:48:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XXu0Qos8VPjnGlXD9UxRhUqET1mTeYLkDW0unxrLLGI=; b=ZhLXcs92uXGg5Q4yyDDZLJdSuMFgx3J/GPYGdJtIlaOWN0lHuYv80uiaY2e0hfwN5w jIGX/dKnrG3OwUHhN5qgs3xgdi0QKt4qu2rcG2VUtW0BORcALeQArOynQFTDKeU0AAfP eLWhThSaCBLGXXIUA8bixiC8ER8hpzoJ9YGKgYqX/5Kzo2Aqe6dhpB3wzdOeQmQGWs3k ttZq/b4lI9nnIgmtZ9E6XG1nrfffgP0tLE37H5Zkfn/rTZQSD1cW5PQhGj959Nzr6Tht Qfck9Eia2GjleWwWxQwfrfWv901wmXMk4AoHcEYOwrBUuEtXw0+ZIF0c6MzXecpNzPl+ JuCA== Received: by 10.68.225.170 with SMTP id rl10mr1193260pbc.76.1335995303629; Wed, 02 May 2012 14:48:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.192.166.0] (stargate.chelsio.com. [67.207.112.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pv8sm439565pbc.9.2012.05.02.14.48.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 May 2012 14:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Navdeep Parhar Message-ID: <4FA1ABA5.2070704@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 14:48:21 -0700 From: Navdeep Parhar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120502 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Stone References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> <4FA1A99D.208@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 21:48:24 -0000 On 05/02/12 14:44, Ryan Stone wrote: > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Navdeep Parhar wrote: >> I will try it. But would this explain why it used to work with 8.2 but >> broke in 8.3? >> >> Navdeep > > If other driver changed between 8.2 and 8.3 to start binding intr > threads to CPUs then your driver would inherit the last pinning. Or > even if your driver is now attaching after another driver. But wouldn't _all_ of the driver's intr threads inherit the last pinning, whatever it was? I'm saying that on 8.2 the 9 different threads used to bind to different CPUs automatically (provided enough CPUs were available) but now they all bind to the same CPU. Anyway I'll try out the rev you pointed at then we'll work backwards towards an explanation if it works :-) Navdeep From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 2 22:17:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AFEF106566C for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 22:17:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nparhar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pz0-f49.google.com (mail-pz0-f49.google.com [209.85.210.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085A68FC14 for ; Wed, 2 May 2012 22:17:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dadm1 with SMTP id m1so551080dad.8 for ; Wed, 02 May 2012 15:17:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=2gD9ltzer2qRor1SjjARbti+ktuixznZQAaiPuiRkVc=; b=zji9nR/0rGffkc7mI0NXxVCfgOWt3nBzOPcjf+lw/OG8NSofCbdk8t4lnSs6Mz5Jsx FkOcr3OKyIsethEXKbAyyLIyYWXK7YoBSZNdoYW3AL4NaJABARNMtZpwGmby05YA3cev nZ2rbmVKlVyT0KX5Nzg6l334zOCFIwm8+Dff8Edns30BppzuC+hK9cudZuVqEY+kijmy B+f5X3NijvEcUiA1K8UuRwXazzhkAh8pIRMg/5ca4HLrxupsf/d7oIJxtceh2ijYtt2b fcdpYh4iSW2Sj2/ac8hck7ATXZE78TjDqzPiTxkZJWQwZl14vk9oovdmcfNAYN71sba8 Y1Vw== Received: by 10.68.203.66 with SMTP id ko2mr1328452pbc.84.1335997043822; Wed, 02 May 2012 15:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.192.166.0] (stargate.chelsio.com. [67.207.112.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q1sm3121062pbp.62.2012.05.02.15.17.21 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 May 2012 15:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4FA1B270.8030104@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 15:17:20 -0700 From: Navdeep Parhar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120502 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Stone References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> <4FA1A99D.208@FreeBSD.org> <4FA1ABA5.2070704@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FA1ABA5.2070704@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 22:17:24 -0000 On 05/02/12 14:48, Navdeep Parhar wrote: > On 05/02/12 14:44, Ryan Stone wrote: >> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Navdeep Parhar wrote: >>> I will try it. But would this explain why it used to work with 8.2 but >>> broke in 8.3? >>> >>> Navdeep >> >> If other driver changed between 8.2 and 8.3 to start binding intr >> threads to CPUs then your driver would inherit the last pinning. Or >> even if your driver is now attaching after another driver. ah, ok. I get it now. didn't actually read r232757 before replying last time. > > But wouldn't _all_ of the driver's intr threads inherit the last > pinning, whatever it was? I'm saying that on 8.2 the 9 different threads > used to bind to different CPUs automatically (provided enough CPUs were > available) but now they all bind to the same CPU. > > Anyway I'll try out the rev you pointed at then we'll work backwards > towards an explanation if it works :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 3 01:27:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BCA106566C for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 01:27:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mj@feral.com) Received: from ns1.feral.com (ns1.feral.com [192.67.166.1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28CDB8FC08 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 01:27:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.135.103] (c-76-126-166-136.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.166.136]) (authenticated bits=0) by ns1.feral.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q431Rire016532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 2 May 2012 18:27:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from mj@feral.com) Message-ID: <4FA1DF1C.2030706@feral.com> Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 18:27:56 -0700 From: Matthew Jacob Organization: Feral Software User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: trent@snakebite.org References: <20120502203948.GA1141@snakebite.org> In-Reply-To: <20120502203948.GA1141@snakebite.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (ns1.feral.com [192.67.166.1]); Wed, 02 May 2012 18:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Missing sysctl options for isp driver X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 01:27:51 -0000 On 5/2/2012 1:39 PM, Trent Nelson wrote: > [Resending from non-broken MTA.] > > Hi Matt, > > isp(4) mentions the following sysctl options: > > dev.isp.N.loop_down_limit > This value says how long to wait in seconds after loop has gone > down before giving up and expiring all of the devices that were > visible. The default is 300 seconds (5 minutes). A separate > (nonadjustable) timeout is used when booting to not stop booting > on lack of FC connectivity. > > dev.isp.N.gone_device_time > This value says how long to wait for devices to reappear if they > (temporarily) disappear due to loop or fabric events. While this > timeout is running, I/O to those devices will simply be held. > > dev.isp.N.wwnn > This is the readonly World Wide Node Name value for this port. > > dev.isp.N.wwpn > This is the readonly World Wide Port Name value for this port. > > I'm not seeing any of these in 9.0-stable. There doesn't seem to be any > occurrence of SYSCTL_ADD_* in /usr/src/sys/dev/isp. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r227126 | mjacob | 2011-11-05 17:44:40 -0700 (Sat, 05 Nov 2011) | 4 lines Implement the sysctl's for fibre channel that are listed in the man page. MFC after: 3 days ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Guess it didn't make it into RELENG_9. > > Thoughts? > > Out of interest, what's the current state of isp on FreeBSD? I had a peek > at NetBSD and OpenBSD's isp drivers and it looks like you've been involved > in all of them at some point or another. > > Are they all in sync or is one leading the pack? (I'm keen to hear if > there are isp changes on other platforms I can merge back into FreeBSD; > all the x86/amd64 boxes on the Snakebite network run FreeBSD and have > QLogic PCI-X 23xx (single& dual port) cards hooking them up to the SAN, > so the isp driver is a pretty critical part of my infrastructure.) > Yes, I wrote them all. This driver is part of a multiplatform driver that I started at NASA/Ames in 1997 that has run on FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, BSDi, Solaris, Linux and few other random systems. At the time I started it, I was of the opinion that it didn't cost much extra effort and performance to write drivers in OS-independent and OS-dependent pieces. This all goes back to my days at Sun doing the Solaris DDI/DKI and involvement in the OBIOS and other "common framework" toads. Nowadays it hardly matters. FreeBSD is the most up to date, but certainly has bugs in target mode. I no longer am a committer for OpenBSD and haven't refreshed the NetBSD port in quite some time. I've just gotten some paid work that will allow me time to fix a number of the items that are currently broken, but because I believe that the following two things are true, there isn't a lot of plans for major work on it at this time: * Fibre Channel is not very interesting at this point. IMO it's now in legacy mode while CNA/100Gb and/or faster and faster Infiniband will become the long haul data transport. SAS and/or PCIe GEN3 will handle the within rack transport. * I'm /really/ tired of this driver. 23XX cards are pretty old at this point. In fact, the 25XX cards are pretty old. Did you have specific bugs you were concerned with? Note, btw, that freebsd-scsi is a better list to bring up FC or SCSI related topics. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 3 15:02:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E451106564A; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:02:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5287C8FC12; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:02:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id SAA02851; Thu, 03 May 2012 18:02:52 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4FA29E1B.7040005@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 18:02:51 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl , Gavin Mu , John Baldwin References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9A6180.8090500@FreeBSD.org> <20120429164623.GG68446@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9E3971.7090405@FreeBSD.org> <20120501202128.GD18650@alchemy.franken.de> In-Reply-To: <20120501202128.GD18650@alchemy.franken.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 15:02:59 -0000 Here's the latest version of the patches: http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.4.diff John, the first of the patches implements the approach that we previously discussed. All arguments are passed starting at a fixed offset that should provide enough space for extending argument list. The first of the extended arguments should be a size of the arguments (including the size field). Then it's easy to write something like: struct xargs { uint32_t size; ... }; ... struct xargs xargs; xargs.size = sizeof(xargs); ... __exec(..., xargs); Marius, Gavin, patch 1f94d9a is my attempt of adapting your sparc64 ZFS code to my larger changes in patch ae5a9c6. I have the patches separate to facilitate the review. They should be committed together. I have only compile-tested the sparc64/ofw part, so it could have some grave bugs or omissions. Could you please review and/or test this patch? I will greatly appreciate any discussion, suggestions, help. I again invite everyone else to take part in the review and testing. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 3 15:23:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C4D1065673; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:23:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5C78FC1D; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:23:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from odyssey.starpoint.kiev.ua (alpha-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.101]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id SAA03020; Thu, 03 May 2012 18:23:52 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: <4FA2A307.2090108@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 18:23:51 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marius Strobl , Gavin Mu , John Baldwin References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <20120422212102.GA66855@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9A6180.8090500@FreeBSD.org> <20120429164623.GG68446@alchemy.franken.de> <4F9E3971.7090405@FreeBSD.org> <20120501202128.GD18650@alchemy.franken.de> <4FA29E1B.7040005@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FA29E1B.7040005@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5pre Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 15:23:57 -0000 on 03/05/2012 18:02 Andriy Gapon said the following: > > Here's the latest version of the patches: > http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.4.diff I've found a couple of problems in the previous version, so here's another one: http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.5.diff The important change is in the first patch (__exec args). > John, > the first of the patches implements the approach that we previously discussed. > All arguments are passed starting at a fixed offset that should provide enough > space for extending argument list. The first of the extended arguments should be > a size of the arguments (including the size field). Then it's easy to write > something like: > struct xargs > { > uint32_t size; > ... > }; > ... > struct xargs xargs; > xargs.size = sizeof(xargs); > ... > __exec(..., xargs); > > > Marius, Gavin, > patch 1f94d9a is my attempt of adapting your sparc64 ZFS code to my larger changes > in patch ae5a9c6. I have the patches separate to facilitate the review. They > should be committed together. I have only compile-tested the sparc64/ofw part, so > it could have some grave bugs or omissions. > Could you please review and/or test this patch? > I will greatly appreciate any discussion, suggestions, help. > > I again invite everyone else to take part in the review and testing. > -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 3 15:48:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5E681065670 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:48:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from willingbug@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE6D8FC08 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 15:48:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so3376817obc.13 for ; Thu, 03 May 2012 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+nT8nnz4waD4wwQWO8Nwi5MKm8BCV6mDSPZ5VcwCAMk=; b=BFzeOi09Bt1spASt7R8qJitL9sutomMiOdXCC46zsHYkLnCZ3dJfcS9CsYNJ8t+9uE ucZCThItX/+tiR5VXNZyMLi+zPFmlHn1TeWGSXSfc9X5ZTiCRL1CDTPu1wiHynaJmb8X YGq66DzT/vNh/WnrdObysd6xneDzOIsTp8qfgsDAdi77sMACSMtcWI243bvopBPRJDAu 8PMCTdL7d9mKK/0O/EZyQjiO2VVT71m0dnYTqBjJLvx7OImUhpOXcSyR9jmnQN7y2av7 9n4upJI5LXTtWv5tTXw+jFofge8CTR11OJfRRejkbQH/vStNLbDQPHA/KY/NtFiBm8IK b6uA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.51.41 with SMTP id h9mr3649335obo.7.1336060128988; Thu, 03 May 2012 08:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.182.1 with HTTP; Thu, 3 May 2012 08:48:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 23:48:48 +0800 Message-ID: From: cz li To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: The user-mode stack space is how many bytes? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 15:48:49 -0000 I have some questions.As follows =EF=BC=8CThe kernel address space is how much? How it is distributed=EF=BC=9F Where can I see?I can adjust it's bigger?What should I do if I can=EF=BC=9FThe change will make some applications can not run? Sorry, my English is poor. I'm looking forward to your reply. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 3 19:01:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23001065670 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 19:01:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bryan@shatow.net) Received: from secure.xzibition.com (secure.xzibition.com [173.160.118.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7B08FC15 for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 19:01:10 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:subject:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=sweb; b=3CXt4CU0QR/G4xh2f3A RjRTk5V2V7ye3pPGrmVXK8S0gr+MsHyTsBSypmWr41xRjfXMhwpTP10jDdM11obc mW6ytmNa7ZK1kZ5kQTSevxIbGOjepgjH6bC43ot6TsggmwVLCLRAxmu6R2VCTpP7 D21mw0Znex1nZOvEqyD+Wn2w= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:subject:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; s=sweb; bh=xuAhfD5qqjIS6kAUFGTcdk3og BviGfc7Xb0yeMLzPto=; b=lt3lbBPvbE6EJWkN/R8we/5B6/NE8WF1L2OJCKCP1 lnQbBa2A67vWQPQezEoW1wy8YUWH5ywFHWE6P2w8ZFwqvJQ75RYqNcfE0OCqEoqQ 3MYigeZ7l9vPPtFdsE8SINLjInypT6xEyMqWU4uWx703uQnDtVX2Ie7L/b5jRndJ fU= Received: (qmail 37773 invoked from network); 3 May 2012 14:01:02 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (bryan@shatow.net@74.94.87.209) by sweb.xzibition.com with ESMTPA; 3 May 2012 14:01:02 -0500 Message-ID: <4FA2D5ED.3010805@shatow.net> Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 14:01:01 -0500 From: Bryan Drewery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120329 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: UFS+QUOTA+GIANT X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 19:01:10 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I recently was re-evaluating my needs for a custom kernel vs GENERIC. One of these was due to QUOTA support, which apparently is not in GENERIC due to the GIANT lock [1]. I see that a patch was written for 7-current/8 [2], but never merged in. Are there plans to resume this work? Regards, Bryan Drewery [1] (rwatson) http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2005-November/019458.html [2] http://people.freebsd.org/~kib/quotagiant/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPotXrAAoJEG54KsA8mwz50fIP/jocw6jvojh0fhyfMG+1jTe2 JRcllPybQ3HhBKrCsfrhr0T8Ph/c5bMkjWTVl8A71Cq7wZmtHfwzKb7QSweEN29O yerLQKz39IJE5pCGdJqiQSWzfmyjSOtE3xv2PZdZuBCzAnV+dHK5hd4D5VCAjJor 1ZXWOixXjhBxXz5PpD/3w1YQJm9J3RcqmC151bFG3ujzZGwaT2jzQvI9xOEU3jWs /UgSavFUcBhGX30SEjrSsAMNN0nr5Nu9U6+h/hcPkxcIKFt7Zz9D145MWREgkeGs 6rrUSO+TqYeSTEIvHmgv0UNf4/nEGLWnoXd9jvTAu14mZn4tUDRz+wxqz7kQ2lnl sNlcC4BoZsKrzyjtcbE1uE5N25zEVD+sUk6EOukY9lY012TLGJZ0wD5tJWLueBjK 5EFIT3qdMrfcS8YBvnpt8On8+uSfJuroS4hJ/ic4HrajEhTUUTsW2WTPdAFjTEx5 cA+igPYMBRBFl0eZOHZAn2chJfUrmGJmKzuub5avkqFVe2kjbDY9x95XaOkaQTWw UlTC/oOVAHszVU7syFXCPuqQ6hdMCJACTVMUSGyNfMBiXn40orFgfxHijCuHvAr3 Vk1wdY/v0yvMZa8Vd/2hIn7QkHf8IUFYZF0zAcagfiEoCBsPlOUPd0QqJPbCTcBy jecyeS1GDnNx/81PKU4i =vgiH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 3 19:05:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94608106566B for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 19:05:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bryan@shatow.net) Received: from secure.xzibition.com (secure.xzibition.com [173.160.118.92]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 368858FC0C for ; Thu, 3 May 2012 19:05:02 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s=sweb; b=rbg/Wu 4hb+R2i2eMVGF+dPhUaSzF/+1ZLHklSuCeyHp6QjdwkGxQ4RQwl/PH+Mirr/TOIA CkL51kn/+xAiGGsk2vahkQOsNXCv153e1bJt0rQKdVvLnF4fPz3jMjE9i7VEL+Fb xh2+OFEVNHFWJ49TC7ebAH96ePoSjfsIkvKnE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=shatow.net; h=message-id :date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=sweb; bh=aNg31I/GEqqR jONvxHK6yvlValffqLyO7JSl3AO9fv4=; b=mWTsUFYbrVVJ0n2WDN0nazpiJv1j 1t06f6R2EQQ4Rb6t4waHpWUcP/oaH+Y64lLkWSlsoD+qhpC3vNeei7D7E1FCp9HH g91l59pzvjWH12XFPOYgwYpNiR/fb3cPEdCtBHIgXcYDtkPOiw0i8N4mqELpZrpo qWy233VLGECeZVg= Received: (qmail 29662 invoked from network); 3 May 2012 14:05:00 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.107?) (bryan@shatow.net@74.94.87.209) by sweb.xzibition.com with ESMTPA; 3 May 2012 14:05:00 -0500 Message-ID: <4FA2D6DB.70404@shatow.net> Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 14:04:59 -0500 From: Bryan Drewery User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120329 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Yanhui Shen References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU usage so high, fread() on the FILE wrapped by libfetch's fetchXGetURL() X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 19:05:02 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 04/22/2012 06:54 AM, Yanhui Shen wrote: > Hi, > > I found the CPU usage is pretty high while running 'pkg update', > 'pkg install [fooapp]'. Seems it was caused by fread() on the FILE > wrapped by libfetch's fetchXGetURL() , maybe fetch_read() in > common.c. > > Here is a simple test code: http://pastebin.com/2sP1f4Wv I want to > know whether it is a bug, or misuse of libfetch API, or any other > matter? > > Run and look about its CPU usage (HTTP url has this issue, FTP url > has not): % ./a.out > http://mirrors.163.com/FreeBSD/ISO-IMAGES-amd64/8.3/FreeBSD-8.3-RELEASE-amd64-bootonly.iso > > Env: % uname -a FreeBSD ThinkPad 9.0-STABLE FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE #1: > Tue Apr 10 12:46:50 CST 2012 > shen@ThinkPad:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/ThinkPad amd64 > Turns out that setting fetchTimeout > 0 fixes this problem. It's been set to 30 in pkgng now. Regards, Bryan Drewery -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPotbaAAoJEG54KsA8mwz5WxUP/iSMjLAShaF/t9+WYtj10FPK 7WWnFj1iquJYN+g0JCDtFnzpqB/VvEfY9sTLqKp/TxCBePS1qPHExzXw9vbFMBDK Em2LCZrlva5vNX7U0vx77dFUJXAEW8zLs6XFeDsmlUBK9CYDK7mDoxNKcLq3LV9w QWOhiTpTe2RprRMqz9FOhQmZ2dB9t5oSuG8BgcEWTfnGS8ANPM45wGH7Vhimai1z 8OCw0T8ZAI7KqDyvxZigACIRWIRb02vBuzVAG1g6EgoVlYQQOwAtH7aCrXaauzlX uWHTjJZYdAl2Lrl60q7qYfyjwFgyVnQIJCEijmT/ydvOMT4huTQrHXvMUiez9qPU wri+6UefQY61C+TVtLMROWlBuCuH4japwxyIlf8QdLbruehcnHjTpFyHDzJMmAj5 V2YU+EfgjOVhoSKyOIQC5VBqK27FlaFMuisD4xisdpJDCJ9k8/LsAjH/PsQwdvei a6CEn3SpMAzrhF3ukv57xIwxSDXdsyoU2VhED5rmrtqzrEFvFjMlflg9MWWHx2m1 KUgmj0ls+WugJrFw/E7PzRU8Qd0xCQRvplDYde16Kzkz+hpXpV6LBYQfWG+YnrRx 5kiJhvNrr7Dstv7Q8u9jNu17KZGSI5p5+FX5oereKymlFxl42rKwyguLXAfHDCXP 1R/HHmtqFSNjSgICw4uC =qd8F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 03:50:58 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B661065674 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 03:50:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from willingbug@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDCB8FC19 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 03:50:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so4313297obc.13 for ; Thu, 03 May 2012 20:50:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+nT8nnz4waD4wwQWO8Nwi5MKm8BCV6mDSPZ5VcwCAMk=; b=XgeLYvc4rFEN17UWZ9C36tyxRw1hnA/jvlIxtyFHVD7esTje/i7HQkdXiKBjoqFLkN BSw9JofhtWszf5BvNtqGALmATfJu3R6n7wmuROUO2++7msLUPN8bJMiDWmd26QvHA5zD tAAXlHsC3y9CxQkUaGdtMrz1sg3znmROo1ZaKf9xtAa1f0c5inctSvVvmDov3Wr2wmJu dJXHdSr5+X5HJ35VzeXILfr6bY5Jj1iIEIjvUk3achihxxEiqJxbwSRMal5AHEBnFuP2 ONftjeVdw4u+MM7eFi8Ioe3tMpkYdag9hnRBUjfHIg1aUgQZusppNqFd1oo2edWj2vNQ nKUQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.0.135 with SMTP id 7mr6272994oee.25.1336103457445; Thu, 03 May 2012 20:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.182.1 with HTTP; Thu, 3 May 2012 20:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:50:57 +0800 Message-ID: From: cz li To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: I have a few problems related to the distribution of information about memory X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 03:50:58 -0000 I have some questions.As follows =EF=BC=8CThe kernel address space is how much? How it is distributed=EF=BC=9F Where can I see?I can adjust it's bigger?What should I do if I can=EF=BC=9FThe change will make some applications can not run? Sorry, my English is poor. I'm looking forward to your reply. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 06:09:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82993106566B for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:09:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pluknet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402E48FC08 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 06:09:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl9 with SMTP id l9so3211820yen.13 for ; Thu, 03 May 2012 23:09:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=FtWUB1yVLGX9vAQ1mesoJtQtJpFoiw1HRuh43+Ogsd0=; b=Y4MooZ0RZVXS7xtiyw6qn/jo7rq+P+R+2vNM9aaAxZwprtdxZLzpFZ7/lETlvytaJ8 GsL9bjr0ujLlfgWjBjX6t2kKUD96/0Ghj+40ViM8ubVUocBTIhmgQebYqeEQBjewo9+o Hat+6PGPHwjm7k6D4lLzJ9bOhf2Ra8g38W3zTFqoT+qWpZeJU2iOwoGZLGFD7CcqCOOQ Kxy+NgY21yJq4dSvZo0kGT0ZeyjFhilFTU5AO4m9IITLzWRgH2GzZUop79a09vMqcUyS olzlEnSRvOjd4hHJzhJQq8+zGwmWOdW38Ipjip5EjexeFHrNO0dEF+ol95QFVCt11yKc H/qw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.141.131 with SMTP id o3mr2410052icu.1.1336111768080; Thu, 03 May 2012 23:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.78.37 with HTTP; Thu, 3 May 2012 23:09:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FA2D5ED.3010805@shatow.net> References: <4FA2D5ED.3010805@shatow.net> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:09:28 +0400 Message-ID: From: Sergey Kandaurov To: Bryan Drewery Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UFS+QUOTA+GIANT X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 06:09:29 -0000 On 3 May 2012 23:01, Bryan Drewery wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I recently was re-evaluating my needs for a custom kernel vs GENERIC. > One of these was due to QUOTA support, which apparently is not in > GENERIC due to the GIANT lock [1]. This is no longer true since 6.4. it's just that nobody cares to turn them on. -- wbr, pluknet From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 14:41:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A73106566B for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:41:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF888FC08 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q44EekcY006443; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:40:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q44EekTg006440; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:40:46 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:40:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Rick Macklem In-Reply-To: <482299836.184445.1335872251190.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: References: <482299836.184445.1335872251190.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 04 May 2012 16:40:46 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS - slow X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:41:00 -0000 > Probably not. NFSv4 writes are done exactly the same as NFSv3. (It changes > other stuff, like locking, adding support for ACLs, etc.) I do have a patch is there any chance to improving it? i mean to cluster writes up to MAXBSIZE on nfs server, just like local UFS do? From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 14:55:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCC51065675 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:55:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE628FC0C for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:55:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q44EtUWG006494; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:55:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q44EtUvQ006491; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:55:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:55:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: c.hutchinson0@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20120501070414.450ff252@virus.local> Message-ID: References: <092518C9B5214244805F7D2022A4F663@multiplay.co.uk> <1168656383.74335.1335567528359.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> <5E0882E0-405F-46AC-9290-8A195FECD2F4@gmail.com> <74720B93-61ED-4CA4-88C1-173356742F3A@gmail.com> <20120501070414.450ff252@virus.local> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 04 May 2012 16:55:30 +0200 (CEST) Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:55:42 -0000 > > I think "The power to serve", pretty much sums it up nicely. :-) that simple. While whom/what it serve it depends. But it have to serve someone needs. Contrary to "computer owner" being a server for someone else needs :) >>> now. >> > While I know this probably seems pointless, based on your > observation(s). I can't help but wonder if initiating a > "BSD awareness day", might not be a bad idea. I can see when i started to use unix systems in 1996 in poland internet was a rare thing. And i only knew linux copied from someone - i was not aware of *BSD in spite it was superior. Linux was mentioned very often in computer newspapers. *BSD - not at all. then i got too dependent from linux but finally removed it altogether - not because FreeBSD was promoted harder but because i knew about it's existence AT ALL and because i found it - by testing and using - to be far better than linux. Since most people today have internet connectivity, i don't think any special work is needed. People that use overadvertised linux for real, and want performance will try other systems quickly. I even think too much advertisement is done today. For example - "desktop environments" are overadvertised, both they are not useful for real work and are not a special feature of FreeBSD, just like over 10000 programs that are available in /usr/ports I don't really understand why new FreeBSD version is advertised, they say that there is some version of kde, and gnome? They are NOT A PART OF FREEBSD. Or if you think they are, then why not just do attach whole /usr/ports/INDEX-8 file to the advertisement? ZFS is overadvertised but fortunately UFS is still default. UFS is great feature of FreeBSD, it basically never fails, and performance (when configured properly) is really great. Actually FreeBSD is already very well known where performance and quality counts. And it is incorporated in a lot of devices/market solutions/services. Linux is everywhere in commodity gadgets as performance and quality is not important, only to sell as much as possible and forget. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 14:58:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237AD1065673 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:58:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EA78FC0C for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 14:58:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q44EwRTD006506; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:58:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q44EwQM5006503; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:58:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:58:25 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Giorgos Keramidas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <4FA12980.6080101@cs.stonybrook.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 04 May 2012 16:58:28 +0200 (CEST) Cc: Richard Yao , Jerry McAllister , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk , Andy@freebsd.org, Young Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:58:30 -0000 > Not really, no. I was referring to the practice of starting a gazillion > services by default, including dbus, avahi, ftp and http services, > file sharing components, and all the rest of the stuff that is now > commonly installed as part of a "Linux desktop". SELinux is indeed > one form of hardening, but I wasn't referring specifically to it; exactly > the opposite, in fact. Without running unneeded things there is no need to "harden". In spite of FreeBSD having quite a lot of extra security features, i don't really use more than standard unix security and jails, it is not really needed. FreeBSD do this (almost) right - default rc.conf doesn't ruch much, but still too much. no idea why inetd is run by default, with no services but anyway. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 15:06:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834CB10657C3 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:06:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571E18FC0A for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:06:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B365DB948; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:06:00 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 08:14:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <201205040814.52668.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Fri, 04 May 2012 11:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Cc: cz li Subject: Re: The user-mode stack space is how many bytes? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:06:01 -0000 On Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:48:48 am cz li wrote: > I have some questions.As follows =EF=BC=8CThe kernel address space is how > much? How it is distributed=EF=BC=9F Where can I see?I can adjust it's > bigger?What should I do if I can=EF=BC=9FThe change will make some > applications can not run? > Sorry, my English is poor. I'm looking forward to your reply. Thank you. The default kernel stack size is set by KSTACK_PAGES in (e.g. sys/amd64/include/param.h). Note that the size in bytes is KSTACK_PAGES * PAGE_SIZE. You can make it bigger for all threads by making that larger and building a new kernel. However, this will increase the amount of wired memory in your running system reducing the amount of RAM available for other things. Applications should generally not care about the size of the kernel stack, though if you make it really large it may be that you will no longer have sufficient RAM for an application with a large number of threads. On 32-bit platforms like i386 you may very well run out of kernel virtual address space before you run out of RAM. Alternatively, if you just want to use a larger kernel stack for a specific kernel thread you are creating, you can do that by setting the 'pages' parameter to kproc_create(), kproc_kthread_add(), or kthread_add() to a cou= nt of pages (0 uses the default KSTACK_PAGES). =2D-=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 15:06:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C6910657C0; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:06:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 703908FC0C; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5F6AB96F; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:06:01 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 08:28:17 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201205040828.18027.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Fri, 04 May 2012 11:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Navdeep Parhar Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:06:02 -0000 On Wednesday, May 02, 2012 5:16:17 pm Navdeep Parhar wrote: > There seems to be a regression in 8.3 in the way the kernel selects CPUs > for interrupts. For example, cxgb(4) on 8.3 ends up with all > its ithreads on the same CPU (CPU7 in this case). > > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:55 0.00% intr{irq279: > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:52 0.00% intr{irq275: > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:47 0.00% intr{irq278: > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:43 0.00% intr{irq277: > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:43 0.00% intr{irq282: > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:41 0.00% intr{irq281: > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:32 0.00% intr{irq276: > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:31 0.00% intr{irq280: > cxgbc0} > > Back in the day there used to be code in cxgb to bind different > interrupts to different CPUs but it was removed because the kernel > distributed them across CPUs anyway. So what changed? This appears 8.3 > specific. I don't see it on head and I don't have a 9 system readily > available right now. Hmmm, that seems odd. It is true that the round-robin that the OS does only pins the low-level message from the APIC/MSI vector to the CPU. It does not affect the thread. However, ULE prefers to run ithreads on the CPU that processes the interrupt: static int sched_pickcpu(struct thread *td, int flags) { ... /* * Prefer to run interrupt threads on the processors that generate * the interrupt. */ if (td->td_priority <= PRI_MAX_ITHD && THREAD_CAN_SCHED(td, self) && curthread->td_intr_nesting_level && ts->ts_cpu != self) { SCHED_STAT_INC(pickcpu_intrbind); ts->ts_cpu = self; } } -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 15:35:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70C71065672; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigknife-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:75::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E898FC16; Fri, 4 May 2012 15:35:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [209.249.190.124]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F138AB948; Fri, 4 May 2012 11:34:59 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Andriy Gapon Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 11:25:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p13; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <4FA29E1B.7040005@FreeBSD.org> <4FA2A307.2090108@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FA2A307.2090108@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201205041125.15155.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Fri, 04 May 2012 11:35:00 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Gavin Mu , Marius Strobl Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:35:00 -0000 On Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:23:51 am Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 03/05/2012 18:02 Andriy Gapon said the following: > > > > Here's the latest version of the patches: > > http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.4.diff > > I've found a couple of problems in the previous version, so here's another one: > http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.5.diff > The important change is in the first patch (__exec args). A few comments/suggestions on the args bits: - Please move the type of the 'kargs' struct into the new header and give it a type name. Don't add the LOADER_ZFS_SUPPORT #ifdef's however or the new size field (see below). - Add #ifndef LOCORE guards to the new header around the structure so it can be used in assembly as well as C. - Move BI_SIZE and ARGOFF into the header as constants. - Add a CTASSERT() in loader/main.c that BI_SIZE == sizeof(struct bootinfo) - Add a KA_SIZE for sizeof(struct kargs) with a CTASSERT. Use it in this instruction: + addl 0x1c(%esp),%ecx # Add size of variable args in place of the 0x1c - Don't add the new 'size' field to the end of the 'struct kargs'. Instead add a comment saying that if KARGS_FLAGS_EXT is set, then a structure will be present at (kargs + 1) that has a int size as its first member. Maybe create a 'struct kargs_ext' that looks like this: struct kargs_ext { uint32_t size; char data[0]; }; - Use 'zargs = (struct zfs_boot_args)(kargs + 1)' in loader/main.c. - Change the ARGADJ line in btxcsu to be this: .set ARGADJ,0x1000 - ARGOFF - If you are adventurous, you could even add a new constant ARGSPACE or some such with an appropriate comment in the new header that you use to replace the 0x1000 in btx.S and in the definition of ARGADJ. Hope that isn't too much, but I do think this will help make things even more understandable. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 17:05:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7254B106566C; Fri, 4 May 2012 17:05:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3028FC0A; Fri, 4 May 2012 17:05:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q44H55oM009979; Fri, 4 May 2012 19:05:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q44H55Is009976; Fri, 4 May 2012 19:05:05 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 19:05:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Navdeep Parhar In-Reply-To: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 04 May 2012 19:05:06 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 17:05:08 -0000 > cxgbc0} > 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:31 0.00% intr{irq280: > cxgbc0} > > Back in the day there used to be code in cxgb to bind different > interrupts to different CPUs but it was removed because the kernel > distributed them across CPUs anyway. So what changed? This appears 8.3 > specific. I don't see it on head and I don't have a 9 system readily maybe stupid question but isn't it better to execute same fragment of code repetitively on same CPU core and don't mess with cache trashing? Of course as long as one core can cope with it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 18:00:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570E21065675 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 18:00:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nparhar@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5CF8FC14 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 18:00:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so4551408pbb.13 for ; Fri, 04 May 2012 11:00:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oir8zHSP5dcJzXOummpsWYI2lFywHFejMbH1yjpb06E=; b=nES6JfTJ9XgZl9XCNo5+vAP6WsoYewCaB1QYLaofSIBmq1h+um0s8AxjsRe+SSNB/M tIbU/sMwYueWazub/TDp6mschjf2zgt5cqZABNjFdal2ZOPpTRKpJAa65ZAPp7DfXvHK +1uI79ztaSn9NFoUrkr16OpigacoscQt3ppBrTyJ6qKifAPGJPL7AOeUM4nrCNnKMCPw 7efcRJFkZGcwwSlI15m6SnS9Ij5C5yiFh6/ocb643Libs72As5aIys3DRt/4eqQe4H6q nhTwo7NMdcVrdaLC1rTVTtyVelm1gJR+F7ponGk6qa7VHSweGz+HVAwQ4AXvLpyhjkJb VLKg== Received: by 10.68.228.130 with SMTP id si2mr37299pbc.73.1336154408976; Fri, 04 May 2012 11:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.192.166.0] (stargate.chelsio.com. [67.207.112.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q1sm9240996pbp.62.2012.05.04.11.00.07 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 04 May 2012 11:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Navdeep Parhar Message-ID: <4FA41926.8090904@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 11:00:06 -0700 From: Navdeep Parhar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120502 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar References: <4FA1A421.6020601@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CPU selection for ithreads on 8.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 18:00:10 -0000 On 05/04/12 10:05, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >> cxgbc0} >> 12 root -68 - 0K 816K WAIT 7 0:31 0.00% intr{irq280: cxgbc0} >> >> Back in the day there used to be code in cxgb to bind different >> interrupts to different CPUs but it was removed because the kernel >> distributed them across CPUs anyway. So what changed? This appears 8.3 >> specific. I don't see it on head and I don't have a 9 system readily > > maybe stupid question but isn't it better to execute same fragment of > code repetitively on same CPU core and don't mess with cache trashing? > > Of course as long as one core can cope with it. That, and cache trashing is not that big an issue if the threads are working on their own sets of data. This is precisely the problem that network stack parallelization tries to solve. Navdeep From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 19:11:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4741B106564A for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 19:11:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@engineer.com) Received: from mailout-us.mail.com (mailout-us.gmx.com [74.208.5.67]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E13438FC14 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 19:11:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 12621 invoked by uid 0); 4 May 2012 19:11:14 -0000 Received: from 67.206.183.58 by rms-us013.v300.gmx.net with HTTP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 15:11:10 -0400 From: "Dieter BSD" Message-ID: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Authenticated: #74169980 X-Flags: 0001 X-Mailer: GMX.com Web Mailer x-registered: 0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GMX-UID: mEzWb3dd3zOlNR3dAHAhjlB+IGRvb0AI Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 19:11:21 -0000 *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? GPL vs BSDL ? (Create a GPLed BSD and see if it takes off.) the obese cartoon penguin? Do most people actually prefer the lower quality product? Popularity is inversly proportional to quality in many areas, not just OSes. marketing? Is there something that Linux does better than the BSDs, that many people care about? ---------- Is there a list somewhere of companies/organizations that contribute to FreeBSD? A list of those that freeload (Use FreeBSD as part of their product but do not contribute back.)? Do we need to recrute a diplomatic fund raiser person to shake the bushes? ---------- Are the resources we do have being used as effectively as possible? Looks to me like funds are being spent on things that would likely happen anyway (because they are "fun", would result in a paper, or are commercially useful), while things that need doing but aren't always fun (such as fixing PRs) don't get funding and never get done. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 20:30:05 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C72106566C for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 20:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ryao@cs.stonybrook.edu) Received: from edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu (edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu [130.245.9.211]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDAA08FC08 for ; Fri, 4 May 2012 20:30:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from HUBCAS1.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.206) by edge2.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.211) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:30:59 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.2] (108.46.203.161) by hubcas1.cs.stonybrook.edu (130.245.9.212) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 16:30:03 -0400 Message-ID: <4FA43C35.9000801@cs.stonybrook.edu> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 16:29:41 -0400 From: Richard Yao User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.4) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/10.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dieter BSD References: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> In-Reply-To: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigEEB82F1BFF1766A17293776C" X-Originating-IP: [108.46.203.161] Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 20:30:05 -0000 --------------enigEEB82F1BFF1766A17293776C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05/04/12 15:11, Dieter BSD wrote: > *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? Linux is popular because of RedHat. Corporate executives like to pay for software because it shifts responsibility away from them in the event that something goes wrong. If something goes wrong with RHEL, the company's legal department can hold RedHat responsible. If something goes wrong with FreeBSD, the board will hold the executive responsible. This makes paying RedHat for Linux very attractive and by extension, it makes Linux very popular. If you want BSD to surpass Linux in popularity, you are going to have to start a company like BSDi, except this time it will need to avoid a crippling lawsuit. --------------enigEEB82F1BFF1766A17293776C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPpDw4AAoJELFAT5FmjZuE27wP/j7v5ioNQltXSD0OxtbUqkyZ 0QOZlymd1ccQoPzPre1F+aG3sybFd/0z411okjaIM3yJa0H2eUAIdL3zUW3ODsyE wIrj+Zd4mqyH6QIFfpAi15MLUZGYswPnBp9Q79IzJfKNUIFBxQWNJ2swG6QAWMVN 0YUPc7fpYDZji9AC/EItKvKnynhDlmG/WO2/5iOjqhN/f2ey/L1D7tdVWy9F4D40 xV19xuCHyK2OOMb07rrdy+06NX4oa7h1q02Z9YBuzwyWF40uhheSa/4nVQCaoxZ3 ulpbt+L+UZ3jroT6FTu+syQWRESIwl6X/rIATmZ4blE397/5t5Zhufz4W0etPHxN BNTbayIWsBoPBEXfGJtq7FH0AR8ZCGdbgAsoEyskwxgbcPxuDRbQ2gXUKsByek4t sOgwUrKt52mLKJrr/15Wicbr0Qn+5vmVbTMX6QzAMInlwUWYmc6qsABuoTsqAOUM 0/tw5r9OZzQrdaEn6sBrPpeXdthQa7BdtzHM6kX0daZdQd5Uld9t980CPhSuApeG XI+u0/vJusd+E1vrBwGG9HI3OFVDnhPwpMLFB7vA/it4tGazlCnwHSBsipn8wQ4/ DNbhRRSAD0n5r+/bYq+CVdvUZBqJQmfFYJ9doNX9MPbRBOj91Z5DeLu/wONPdxEE f1uTcEllbR+qbDzQY409 =YCfw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigEEB82F1BFF1766A17293776C-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri May 4 22:00:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 344041065695; Fri, 4 May 2012 22:00:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from refereees@hendrickauto.com) Received: from host95.190-136-255.telecom.net.ar (host95.190-136-255.telecom.net.ar [190.136.255.95]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D44798FC35; Fri, 4 May 2012 22:00:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from apache by ubgvibuavifuivhccwbgagu.ataportfoy.com.tr with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <, , , >) id VSQJUW-X7SH2D-R7 for , , , ; Fri, 4 May 2012 19:00:19 -0300 To: , , , X-PHP-Script: ubgvibuavifuivhccwbgagu.iztzg.hr/sendmail.php for 190.136.255.95 From: , , , X-Sender: , , , X-Mailer: PHP X-Priority: 1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Message-Id: Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 19:00:19 -0300 Cc: Subject: Job ad - see details! Sent through Search engine X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 22:00:22 -0000 I would like to take this time to welcome you to our hiring process and give you a brief synopsis of the position's benefits and requirements. If you are taking a career break, are on a maternity leave, recently retired or simply looking for some part-time job, this position is for you. Occupation: Flexible schedule 1 to 3 hours per day. We can guarantee a minimum 20 hrs/week occupation Salary: Starting salary is 3000 EUR per month plus commission. Region: Europe Please note that there are no startup fees or deposits to start working for us. To request an application form, schedule your interview and receive more information about this position please reply to Regina@employmenteu.com,with your personal identification number for this position IDNO: 7609 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 03:42:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9251065673 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 03:42:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm@mired.org) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83458FC0C for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 03:42:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obcni5 with SMTP id ni5so6258664obc.13 for ; Fri, 04 May 2012 20:42:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:organization :x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=t0GZKRUCohrxrHFXG0SuRzacCkJwUiXfkFZ704aYVuI=; b=elp/uMdxDzqgZK6zK3WOrjcq6FoKR4T+SCpY0vaGoJtyLSsECvfr2fpCqblie9PdRJ Qa3jZZBoEhu2aJ6hYDqFnlKMtOv8jPFXrK8uCpshvDqTINaQsECYpVLBlJX/dcLUWO2v C9Jispg75s055v8ErxR4PvSiozImj3xei6RCalFX+5WrcyqnATUFAkoy9TPm3luEhLYu urLhmjRpUHnxzsJGc+gEKu0K87WN/a44dOxDm5Z9blAwUQ3g0PKebKcEeXsFzhcfeECQ TNvhG7graS6kGeTtAU692lRmgM9EwKaC5t8tozjidiZYv1zNPqkZADYn15eK8S0ZwXff BvxQ== Received: by 10.50.77.166 with SMTP id t6mr3318973igw.14.1336189344180; Fri, 04 May 2012 20:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bhuda.mired.org (74-140-201-117.dhcp.insightbb.com. [74.140.201.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id de2sm807721igc.4.2012.05.04.20.42.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 04 May 2012 20:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 23:42:20 -0400 From: Mike Meyer To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120504234220.5ba8141b@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> References: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> Organization: Meyer Consulting X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkuF//XPV+mdIVVwCY8VOq1hLdqoRxm4Z/1NxY+J6y0jo4jNx5ibbfkry+TK2V8+4jVBfNL Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 03:42:25 -0000 On Fri, 04 May 2012 15:11:10 -0400 "Dieter BSD" wrote: > *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? My "newsbyte" answer is: BSD is Unix for people who love quality software. Linux is Unix for people who hate Microsoft. There are a lot more of the latter than the former. Expanded, most linux distros make gaining users more important than software quality. So things are made as easy as possible for the user: you install everything by default, configure everything for them, possibly even make it hard for them to "break" things by misconfiguring something. BSD makes software quality more important than gaining users. Just look at where there effort goes! Frankly, while I'd love to see BSD be more popular, I'd rather it not happen at the expense of the software quality. This shows up in *all* the software. If I install third party software from the BSD package system, it usually shows up with the default config from the original author. Any changes are usually the result of working around BSD not being the author's development system. On Linux systems, I find that stuff comes out of the box with some non-standard default configuration designed "to make things easier". So I have to spend time figuring out what was changed, and why, and how to put it back. In some cases (like bash), it's easier to punt on the package and replace it with different software (as in: how do you *turn off* the color ls in bash on RHEL!?). http://www.mired.org/ Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 04:15:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDD01065674 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 04:15:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A13178FC12 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 04:15:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa04 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa04.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q453u42D016772; Fri, 4 May 2012 23:15:24 -0500 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa04.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 14mthwrckc-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 04 May 2012 23:15:24 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.105] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 23:15:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <20120504234220.5ba8141b@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 21:15:21 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <3FFA8D05-005B-4405-ACD7-E8473F9BDCBE@fisglobal.com> References: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> <20120504234220.5ba8141b@bhuda.mired.org> To: Mike Meyer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7580, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-05-04_07:2012-05-04, 2012-05-04, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 04:15:26 -0000 On May 4, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: > On Fri, 04 May 2012 15:11:10 -0400 > "Dieter BSD" wrote: >=20 >> *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? >=20 > My "newsbyte" answer is: >=20 > BSD is Unix for people who love quality software. > Linux is Unix for people who hate Microsoft. My favorite comparison-quote is from the former (x3) CEO of our company fro= m way-way back (circa '95-'96): ``Linux is for Windows users that want to learn UNIX. FreeBSD is for UNIX users that want to use affordable hardware.'' _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 04:38:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4608B1065675; Sat, 5 May 2012 04:38:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A00D8FC14; Sat, 5 May 2012 04:38:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa01 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa01.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q454UFZD003836; Fri, 4 May 2012 23:38:30 -0500 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.31]) by ltcfislmsgpa01.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 14ms85rn57-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 04 May 2012 23:38:30 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.105] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Fri, 4 May 2012 23:38:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <3FFA8D05-005B-4405-ACD7-E8473F9BDCBE@fisglobal.com> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 21:38:28 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> <20120504234220.5ba8141b@bhuda.mired.org> <3FFA8D05-005B-4405-ACD7-E8473F9BDCBE@fisglobal.com> To: Devin Teske X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7580, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-05-05_01:2012-05-04, 2012-05-05, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mike Meyer Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 04:38:31 -0000 On May 4, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Devin Teske wrote: >=20 > On May 4, 2012, at 8:42 PM, Mike Meyer wrote: >=20 >> On Fri, 04 May 2012 15:11:10 -0400 >> "Dieter BSD" wrote: >>=20 >>> *WHY* is Linux so much more popular than the BSDs? >>=20 >> My "newsbyte" answer is: >>=20 >> BSD is Unix for people who love quality software. >> Linux is Unix for people who hate Microsoft. >=20 > My favorite comparison-quote is from the former (x3) CEO of our company f= rom way-way back (circa '95-'96): >=20 > ``Linux is for Windows users that want to learn UNIX. > FreeBSD is for UNIX users that want to use affordable hardware.'' >=20 (adding to the above) Which I don't necessarily think accurately describes FreeBSD today; that qu= ote was circa pre 1.0-R ("ref") to 2.x. Today, FreeBSD works on some of the most powerful equipment in the world. E= quipment where price is hardly an issue. We have a great many to thank for = that. --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 05:06:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1081065670 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 05:06:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@kientzle.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2048FC12 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 05:06:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbbro2 with SMTP id ro2so5054371pbb.13 for ; Fri, 04 May 2012 22:06:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date :message-id:to:mime-version:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=wk04EFSI5GcP8IvsBQzSR5GGbdrHIJ+/4za+A2gPA9I=; b=aRcHtxJsvmoWNRmdtda7ZAJ72793hB0BoTTY7gSHYTbOGq6nqeIlmgSyOrE2xv31Ej N7Jpb+FTxWZ7H0W49rLoCyLtmBCbPUsAyAtrO12pBeLaGODWzr6SghKYmUrmtb0b+4/S FqBNvmI7qz8X/QevJ6CSqWAc8uuJ7wdW4T/Dmj2Z4Sc9wbT6ISV9fNVEcZ6TQMoEafWI 5I2gFHCTFlfSd/8xXrBBiUyJlwKJTfXXQ8TavfMiLQvY47wC/68enXHND4q/wqun7yaK 7/7G8uqssBoETT6q830o2oueKb6h+r+4PHiJxrEK5CFKCuCcydA/6ilGdyML8Ww/jQvw iVsA== Received: by 10.68.195.71 with SMTP id ic7mr25288730pbc.34.1336194377937; Fri, 04 May 2012 22:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.69] (99-74-169-43.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [99.74.169.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x1sm10722282pbp.50.2012.05.04.22.06.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 04 May 2012 22:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Tim Kientzle From: Tim Kientzle Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 22:06:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3B2A320B-3ADE-4F48-B94E-4F0886178251@freebsd.org> To: arm@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlHU87bl+FAwP8wMDdOXq7hOYTG9jllaPXcprnoFZAEncMZ0IcAnB5diCoVYAweCQCsnvns Cc: Subject: How does loader(8) decide where to load the kernel? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 05:06:18 -0000 I have ubldr loading the ELF kernel on BeagleBone and am now trying to untangle some of the hacks I used to get this working. Unfortunately, there's one area of the common loader(8) code that I really don't understand: How does sys/boot/common/load_elf.c determine the physical address at which to load the kernel? __elfN(loadfile) has the following comment: [The file] will be stored at (dest). But that's not really true. For starters, loadfile maps dest through archsw.arch_loadaddr. (This mechanism seems to only be used on ia64 and pc98, though the result is later discarded on those platforms.) Loadfile then passes the value to loadimage which does very strange things: On i386, amd64, powerpc, and arm, loadimage subtracts the dest value from the address declared in the actual ELF headers so that the kernel always gets loaded into low memory. (there's some intermediate bit-twiddling I'm glossing over, but this is the general idea). On other platforms, the dest value passed into loadimage is entirely ignored. So it looks like the arch_loadaddr manipulations used on ia64 and pc98 are in fact not used. In my case, I have a kernel linked against a virtual address of 0xc0200000 that I want to load into a physical address of 0x80200000. I can make it work by having arch_loadaddr return a value of 0x40000000 (which then gets subtracted from the virtual address in the ELF file to produce the physical address I need), but this seems really byzantine. How is this *supposed* to work? Anybody know? Tim From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 09:31:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D66106566B; Sat, 5 May 2012 09:31:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8665E8FC0A; Sat, 5 May 2012 09:31:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id MAA18068; Sat, 05 May 2012 12:31:25 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SQbKm-000A2o-J0; Sat, 05 May 2012 12:31:24 +0300 Message-ID: <4FA4F36A.6030903@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 12:31:22 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120425 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <4FA29E1B.7040005@FreeBSD.org> <4FA2A307.2090108@FreeBSD.org> <201205041125.15155.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <201205041125.15155.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 09:31:27 -0000 on 04/05/2012 18:25 John Baldwin said the following: > On Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:23:51 am Andriy Gapon wrote: >> on 03/05/2012 18:02 Andriy Gapon said the following: >>> >>> Here's the latest version of the patches: >>> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.4.diff >> >> I've found a couple of problems in the previous version, so here's another one: >> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.5.diff >> The important change is in the first patch (__exec args). > > A few comments/suggestions on the args bits: John, these are excellent suggestions! Thank you! Some comments: > - Please move the type of the 'kargs' struct into the new header and > give it a type name. Don't add the LOADER_ZFS_SUPPORT #ifdef's > however or the new size field (see below). Done. I've named the header and the struct "bootargs". > - Add #ifndef LOCORE guards to the new header around the structure so > it can be used in assembly as well as C. Done. I have had to go into a few btx makefiles and add a necessary include path and -DLOCORE to make the header usable from asm. > - Move BI_SIZE and ARGOFF into the header as constants. Done. > - Add a CTASSERT() in loader/main.c that BI_SIZE == sizeof(struct bootinfo) I have added a definition of CTASSERT to boostrap.h as it was not available for sys/boot and there were two local definitions of the macro in individual files. However the assertion would fail right now. The backward-compatible value of BI_SIZE (72 == 0x48) covers only part of the fields in struct bootinfo, those up to the following comment: /* Items below only from advanced bootloader */ I am a little bit hesitant: should I increase BI_SIZE to cover the whole struct bootinfo or should I compare BI_SIZE to offsetof bi_kernend? > - Add a KA_SIZE for sizeof(struct kargs) with a CTASSERT. Use it in this > instruction: Done. > + addl 0x1c(%esp),%ecx # Add size of variable args > > in place of the 0x1c Done. Plus some more. > - Don't add the new 'size' field to the end of the 'struct kargs'. Instead > add a comment saying that if KARGS_FLAGS_EXT is set, then a structure will > be present at (kargs + 1) that has a int size as its first member. Done. > Maybe > create a 'struct kargs_ext' that looks like this: > > struct kargs_ext { > uint32_t size; > char data[0]; > }; I've decided to skip on this. > - Use 'zargs = (struct zfs_boot_args)(kargs + 1)' in loader/main.c. > - Change the ARGADJ line in btxcsu to be this: > > .set ARGADJ,0x1000 - ARGOFF I've decided to define ARGADJ in the new common header, then I've had to rename btxcsu.s to .S, so that the preprocessing is executed for it. > - If you are adventurous, you could even add a new constant ARGSPACE or some > such with an appropriate comment in the new header that you use to replace > the 0x1000 in btx.S and in the definition of ARGADJ. Done. > Hope that isn't too much, but I do think this will help make things even more > understandable. > I will send the new patch shortly. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 09:53:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D14106564A; Sat, 5 May 2012 09:53:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7258FC18; Sat, 5 May 2012 09:53:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id MAA18187; Sat, 05 May 2012 12:53:08 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1SQbfo-000A3q-B1; Sat, 05 May 2012 12:53:08 +0300 Message-ID: <4FA4F883.2060008@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 12:53:07 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120425 Thunderbird/12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <4FA29E1B.7040005@FreeBSD.org> <4FA2A307.2090108@FreeBSD.org> <201205041125.15155.jhb@freebsd.org> <4FA4F36A.6030903@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4FA4F36A.6030903@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 09:53:11 -0000 on 05/05/2012 12:31 Andriy Gapon said the following: > on 04/05/2012 18:25 John Baldwin said the following: >> On Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:23:51 am Andriy Gapon wrote: >>> on 03/05/2012 18:02 Andriy Gapon said the following: >>>> >>>> Here's the latest version of the patches: >>>> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.4.diff >>> >>> I've found a couple of problems in the previous version, so here's another one: >>> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.5.diff >>> The important change is in the first patch (__exec args). >> >> A few comments/suggestions on the args bits: > > John, > > these are excellent suggestions! Thank you! The new patchset: http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.7.diff > Some comments: > >> - Please move the type of the 'kargs' struct into the new header and >> give it a type name. Don't add the LOADER_ZFS_SUPPORT #ifdef's >> however or the new size field (see below). > > Done. I've named the header and the struct "bootargs". > >> - Add #ifndef LOCORE guards to the new header around the structure so >> it can be used in assembly as well as C. > > Done. I have had to go into a few btx makefiles and add a necessary include > path and -DLOCORE to make the header usable from asm. > >> - Move BI_SIZE and ARGOFF into the header as constants. > > Done. > >> - Add a CTASSERT() in loader/main.c that BI_SIZE == sizeof(struct bootinfo) > > I have added a definition of CTASSERT to boostrap.h as it was not available for > sys/boot and there were two local definitions of the macro in individual files. > > However the assertion would fail right now. > The backward-compatible value of BI_SIZE (72 == 0x48) covers only part of the > fields in struct bootinfo, those up to the following comment: > /* Items below only from advanced bootloader */ > > I am a little bit hesitant: should I increase BI_SIZE to cover the whole struct > bootinfo or should I compare BI_SIZE to offsetof bi_kernend? > >> - Add a KA_SIZE for sizeof(struct kargs) with a CTASSERT. Use it in this >> instruction: > > Done. > >> + addl 0x1c(%esp),%ecx # Add size of variable args >> >> in place of the 0x1c > > Done. Plus some more. > >> - Don't add the new 'size' field to the end of the 'struct kargs'. Instead >> add a comment saying that if KARGS_FLAGS_EXT is set, then a structure will >> be present at (kargs + 1) that has a int size as its first member. > > Done. > >> Maybe >> create a 'struct kargs_ext' that looks like this: >> >> struct kargs_ext { >> uint32_t size; >> char data[0]; >> }; > > I've decided to skip on this. > >> - Use 'zargs = (struct zfs_boot_args)(kargs + 1)' in loader/main.c. >> - Change the ARGADJ line in btxcsu to be this: >> >> .set ARGADJ,0x1000 - ARGOFF > > I've decided to define ARGADJ in the new common header, then I've had to rename > btxcsu.s to .S, so that the preprocessing is executed for it. > >> - If you are adventurous, you could even add a new constant ARGSPACE or some >> such with an appropriate comment in the new header that you use to replace >> the 0x1000 in btx.S and in the definition of ARGADJ. > > Done. > >> Hope that isn't too much, but I do think this will help make things even more >> understandable. >> > > I will send the new patch shortly. > -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 11:07:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71521065672; Sat, 5 May 2012 11:07:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from breakagesf30@realliving.com) Received: from m-109-111-96-132.andorpac.ad (m-109-111-96-132.andorpac.ad [109.111.96.132]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 727DE8FC0C; Sat, 5 May 2012 11:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 109.111.96.132(helo=freebsd.org) by freebsd.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MMK18-2343qe-M9 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 05:07:45 -0600 From: , , To: , , Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 05:07:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: axfak-34 Message-ID: <5433714787.6Z4288CJ321887@jhiojpgam.cyekobkywkjcmpf.net> Cc: Subject: Position opening in your area X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 11:07:45 -0000 I would like to take this time to welcome you to our hiring process and give you a brief synopsis of the position's benefits and requirements. 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To request an application form, schedule your interview and receive more information about this position please reply to Glen@employmenteu.com,with your personal identification number for this position IDNO: 8935 From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 10:49:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14CA71065673; Sat, 5 May 2012 10:49:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brde@optusnet.com.au) Received: from mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.187]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2825F8FC0A; Sat, 5 May 2012 10:49:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from c122-106-171-232.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au (c122-106-171-232.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.106.171.232]) by mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q45Anl8v023129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 5 May 2012 20:49:49 +1000 Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 20:49:47 +1000 (EST) From: Bruce Evans X-X-Sender: bde@besplex.bde.org To: Andriy Gapon In-Reply-To: <4FA4F36A.6030903@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <20120505194459.D1295@besplex.bde.org> References: <4F8999D2.1080902@FreeBSD.org> <4FA29E1B.7040005@FreeBSD.org> <4FA2A307.2090108@FreeBSD.org> <201205041125.15155.jhb@freebsd.org> <4FA4F36A.6030903@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 05 May 2012 12:16:52 +0000 Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [review request] zfsboot/zfsloader: support accessing filesystems within a pool X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 10:49:54 -0000 On Sat, 5 May 2012, Andriy Gapon wrote: > on 04/05/2012 18:25 John Baldwin said the following: >> On Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:23:51 am Andriy Gapon wrote: >>> on 03/05/2012 18:02 Andriy Gapon said the following: >>>> >>>> Here's the latest version of the patches: >>>> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.4.diff >>> >>> I've found a couple of problems in the previous version, so here's another one: >>> http://people.freebsd.org/~avg/zfsboot.patches.5.diff >>> The important change is in the first patch (__exec args). >> >> A few comments/suggestions on the args bits: > > John, > > these are excellent suggestions! Thank you! > Some comments: >> - Add #ifndef LOCORE guards to the new header around the structure so >> it can be used in assembly as well as C. > > Done. I have had to go into a few btx makefiles and add a necessary include > path and -DLOCORE to make the header usable from asm. Ugh, why not use genassym, as is done for all old uses of this header in locore.s, at least on i386 (5% of the i386 genassym.c is for this). >> - Move BI_SIZE and ARGOFF into the header as constants. > > Done. > >> - Add a CTASSERT() in loader/main.c that BI_SIZE == sizeof(struct bootinfo) Ugh, BI_SIZE was already used in locore.s. It wasn't the size of the struct, but was the offset of the field that gives the size. No CTASSERT() was needed -- the size is whatever it is, as given by sizeof() on the struct at the time of compilation of the utility that initializes the struct. It was a feature that sizeof() and offsetof() can't be used in asm so they must be translated in genassym and no macros are needed in the header (the size was fully dynamic, so the asm code only needs the offsetof() values). Of course, you could use CTASSERT()s to check that the struct layout didn't get broken. The old code just assumes that the struct is packed by the programmer and that the arch's struct packing conventions don't change, so that for example BI_SIZE = offsetof(struct bootinfo, bi_size) never changes. genassym is hard to use in boot programs, but the old design was that boot programs shouldn't use bootinfo in asm and should just use the target bootinfo.h at compile time (whatever time the target is compiled). Anyway, LOCORE means "for use in locore.[sS]", so other uses of it, e.g. in boot programs, are bogus. > > I have added a definition of CTASSERT to boostrap.h as it was not available for > sys/boot and there were two local definitions of the macro in individual files. > > However the assertion would fail right now. > The backward-compatible value of BI_SIZE (72 == 0x48) covers only part of the This isn't backwards compatible. BI_SIZE was decimal 48 (covers everything up to the bi_size field). > fields in struct bootinfo, those up to the following comment: > /* Items below only from advanced bootloader */ > I am a little bit hesitant: should I increase BI_SIZE to cover the whole struct > bootinfo or should I compare BI_SIZE to offsetof bi_kernend? Neither. BI_SIZE shouldn't exist. It defeats the bi_size field. >> Maybe >> create a 'struct kargs_ext' that looks like this: >> >> struct kargs_ext { >> uint32_t size; >> char data[0]; >> }; > > I've decided to skip on this. Use KNF indentation and KNF field prefixes (ka_) if you add it :-). Generic field names like `size' and `data' need prefixes more than mos. The old struct was: % #define N_BIOS_GEOM 8 % ... % /* % * A zero bootinfo field often means that there is no info available. % * Flags are used to indicate the validity of fields where zero is a % * normal value. % */ % struct bootinfo { % u_int32_t bi_version; % u_int32_t bi_kernelname; /* represents a char * */ % u_int32_t bi_nfs_diskless; /* struct nfs_diskless * */ % /* End of fields that are always present. */ The original size was apparently 12. % #define bi_endcommon bi_n_bios_used Another style difference. The magic 12 is essentially given by this macro. This macro is a pseudo-field, like the ones for the copyable and zeroable regions in struct proc. Its name is in lower case. % u_int32_t bi_n_bios_used; % u_int32_t bi_bios_geom[N_BIOS_GEOM]; The struct was broken in 1994 by adding the above 2 fields without providing any way to distinguish it from the old struct. % u_int32_t bi_size; % u_int8_t bi_memsizes_valid; % u_int8_t bi_bios_dev; /* bootdev BIOS unit number */ % u_int8_t bi_pad[2]; % u_int32_t bi_basemem; % u_int32_t bi_extmem; % u_int32_t bi_symtab; /* struct symtab * */ % u_int32_t bi_esymtab; /* struct symtab * */ The above 8 fields were added in 1995 (together with fixing style bugs like no prefixes for the old field names). Now the struct is determined by its size according to the bi_size field, and the bi_version field is not really used (it's much easier to add stuff to the end than to support multiple versions). This gives a range of old sizes/versions: 12: ~1993 (FreeBSD-1) 48: ~1994 (FreeBSD-1 and/or 2) 0x48: FreeBSD-2 post-1995 But these old sizes are uninteresting since only boot loaders from before 1993-1995 support only the above fields, and these loaders can't boot current kernels. % /* Items below only from advanced bootloader */ % u_int32_t bi_kernend; /* end of kernel space */ % u_int32_t bi_envp; /* environment */ % u_int32_t bi_modulep; /* preloaded modules */ Added in 1998. Still uninteresting, since boot loaders newer than that are needed to boot current kernels (mainly for elf). % uint64_t bi_hcdp; /* DIG64 HCDP table */ % uint64_t bi_fpswa; /* FPSWA interface */ % uint64_t bi_systab; /* pa of EFI system table */ % uint64_t bi_memmap; /* pa of EFI memory map */ % uint64_t bi_memmap_size; /* size of EFI memory map */ % uint64_t bi_memdesc_size; /* sizeof EFI memory desc */ % uint32_t bi_memdesc_version; /* EFI memory desc version */ Added in 2010. Are all of these uint64_t types correct? The padding seems to be broken, so that these fields would not work for amd64: we're at offset 0x48 for bi_kernend. The 3 uint32_t's added in 1998 reach 0x54. Then all the uint64_t fields are misaligned on i386, and on amd64 there is unnamed padding before the first of them to align them. But and64 doesn't use bootinfo.h in the kernel, so I think only the i386 version is used on amd64 (in the boot loader), so the misaligned case isn't used. The struct declaration is also broken at the end. The last field is 32 bits, so there is unnamed padding after it on amd64 only. This padding should be explicit, like the padding before the uint64_t fields, or just put the 32-bit field before the 64-bit fields. % }; So apart you could hard-code the size to the 1998 value of 0x54 without losing anything except the buggy 2010 fields. But it shouldn't be hard-coded. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 14:21:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2ED1065670 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 14:21:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk) Received: from avasout01.plus.net (avasout01.plus.net [84.93.230.227]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9ED8FC0A for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 14:21:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from deb603.localnet ([213.120.22.35]) by avasout01 with smtp id 6EHp1j0060lRLul01EHrGV; Sat, 05 May 2012 15:17:51 +0100 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=I5Dntacg c=1 sm=1 a=FQBuy5L6rGtzNAc5lk3mtQ==:17 a=tvFjYeeLK-cA:10 a=WhUTNUK2aqYA:10 a=KdljGRtMWWsA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=vsV7uEMOG41AhqxB2NwA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=FQBuy5L6rGtzNAc5lk3mtQ==:117 From: Frank Mitchell To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 15:11:08 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (Linux/2.6.32-5-686; KDE/4.4.5; i686; ; ) References: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> <20120504234220.5ba8141b@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20120504234220.5ba8141b@bhuda.mired.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201205051511.08578.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 14:21:01 -0000 Just ensure that FreeBSD is the ideal distro for downloading and watching videos. All sorts of videos... And some standard User-Software like Gnumeric and Open Office would be welcome too. Faictz Ce Que Vouldras: Frank Mitchell From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat May 5 17:54:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3ECD106566C for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 17:54:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) Received: from wilberforce.math.missouri.edu (wilberforce.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608C18FC18 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 17:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (wilberforce.math.missouri.edu [128.206.184.213]) by wilberforce.math.missouri.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q45HsBi4042612 for ; Sat, 5 May 2012 12:54:12 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) Message-ID: <4FA56943.7020508@missouri.edu> Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 12:54:11 -0500 From: Stephen Montgomery-Smith User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20120504191111.153790@gmx.com> <20120504234220.5ba8141b@bhuda.mired.org> <201205051511.08578.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <201205051511.08578.mitchell@wyatt672earp.force9.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 17:54:18 -0000 Find some mailing lists that have nothing to do with FreeBSD, and barrage them with spam promoting FreeBSD. :-)