From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 10:45:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 683621065670 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:45:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from news@sdihr.com) Received: from sg2nlvphout01.shr.prod.sin2.secureserver.net (sg2nlvphout01.shr.prod.sin2.secureserver.net [182.50.132.195]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 666E48FC08 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:45:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 30594 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2012 09:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO JOBAY.home) (118.139.160.102) by sg2nlvphout01.shr.prod.sin2.secureserver.net (182.50.132.195) with ESMTP; 25 Mar 2012 09:19:18 -0000 Received: from zoqi-PC ([119.152.62.36]) by home with MailEnable ESMTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:44:43 +0500 Message-ID: <1500ea86153bed95ea987a63001df10c@sdihr.com> From: "=?windows-1256?Q?SDIhr_Team_|_News?=" To: Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:16:54 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: =?windows-1256?b?TWFyY2ggTmV3cyB8IMfh2uPH4ckgx+HDzsjH0Q==?= X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: corporate@sdihr.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:45:29 -0000 March -- SDIhr -- Newsletter Images not displaying properly? 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From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 13:58:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D78B1065674 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:58:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christoph@christoph-egger.org) Received: from 1und1.siccegge.de (cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a01:198:200:500::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3688FC1C for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:58:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dsl01.212.114.250.149.ip-pool.nefkom.net ([212.114.250.149] helo=localhost) by 1und1.siccegge.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SBnxx-00055h-Q6 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:58:42 +0200 From: Christoph Egger To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: Privat Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:59:37 +0200 Message-ID: <87zkb4lr1y.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Subject: NFS locking and linux NFS server X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:58:44 -0000 Hi all! I have a Linux Host (2.6.32 kernel, Debian stable) providong NFS shares. Locking files on that share works fine for linux clients [0] while it fails on a freebsd 9.0-STABLE system. The interwebs indicate there have been problems witha buggy linux implementation back in 2006 but no more hits for that problem in recent times so I assume it's fixed? root@freebsd /mnt/ 11:27 0 # kldstat -v | grep nfs 341 nfscommon 386 nfslockd 344 nfsd 385 nfssvc 342 nfs 343 nfscl 384 nfslock root@freebsd /mnt/ 11:28 0 # flock test -c ls flock: test: Operation not supported root@freebsd /mnt/ 11:31 0 # mount | grep nfs 10.70.255.8:/home/ on /mnt/ (nfs) Regards Christoph [0] flock test -c ls -- 9FED 5C6C E206 B70A 5857 70CA 9655 22B9 D49A E731 Debian Developer | Lisp Hacker | CaCert Assurer From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 15:04:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B68106567E for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:04:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8348FC21 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:04:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E06595C22 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:18:23 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F6F3411.40200@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:04:49 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Intercepting X11 events X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:04:57 -0000 I'm not 100% sure where else to ask this. I have an annoying window that disappears when I click close (ha ha, yes I know it will usually do that, but this one doesn't go away) but it is unable to cooperate with the system tray so it simply becomes "invisible", and hangs about in the background. In my investigationings I had a brainwave that since I cannot change the program (not without enormous effort) in the short term, maybe I can find a way to terminate the program and manage it externally with a script. So I'm looking to find a wrapper, or a script that can intercept the close event and kill the process (can't find a better way to handle it). Any ideas? The DE is lightweight (Icewm, LXDE, similar) so the tray is either non existent or incompatible; the app itself is (#%$&!) java. Yep, thats right - it only speaks Gnome/KDE... Cheers Afterword: And yes, it took me that long to figure out the Java systray problem and the lack of a solution in my googling. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 15:06:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB936106566C for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:06:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611328FC27 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:06:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1AAF65C29 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:20:13 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F6F347E.4020707@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:06:38 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <87zkb4lr1y.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> In-Reply-To: <87zkb4lr1y.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: NFS locking and linux NFS server X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:06:40 -0000 On 03/25/12 23:59, Christoph Egger wrote: > Hi all! > > I have a Linux Host (2.6.32 kernel, Debian stable) providong NFS > shares. Locking files on that share works fine for linux clients [0] > while it fails on a freebsd 9.0-STABLE system. The interwebs indicate > there have been problems witha buggy linux implementation back in 2006 > but no more hits for that problem in recent times so I assume it's > fixed? > > root@freebsd /mnt/ > 11:27 0 # kldstat -v | grep nfs > 341 nfscommon > 386 nfslockd > 344 nfsd > 385 nfssvc > 342 nfs > 343 nfscl > 384 nfslock > > root@freebsd /mnt/ > 11:28 0 # flock test -c ls > flock: test: Operation not supported > > root@freebsd /mnt/ > 11:31 0 # mount | grep nfs > 10.70.255.8:/home/ on /mnt/ (nfs) This may or may not be helpful, but I can't think of anything else at this time: what version NFS on both sides? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 15:33:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39571065672 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:33:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christoph@christoph-egger.org) Received: from 1und1.siccegge.de (cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a01:198:200:500::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5538FC16 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:33:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dsl01.212.114.250.149.ip-pool.nefkom.net ([212.114.250.149] helo=localhost) by 1und1.siccegge.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SBpRL-0008LY-Fd for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:33:07 +0200 From: Christoph Egger To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: Privat References: <87zkb4lr1y.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> <4F6F347E.4020707@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:34:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: <4F6F347E.4020707@herveybayaustralia.com.au> (sfid-20120325_170659_867119_15FE72BD) (Da Rock's message of "Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:06:38 +1000") Message-ID: <87aa34lmof.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: NFS locking and linux NFS server X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:33:09 -0000 Hi! Da Rock writes: > On 03/25/12 23:59, Christoph Egger wrote: >> Hi all! >> >> I have a Linux Host (2.6.32 kernel, Debian stable) providong NFS >> shares. Locking files on that share works fine for linux clients [0] >> while it fails on a freebsd 9.0-STABLE system. The interwebs indicate >> there have been problems witha buggy linux implementation back in 2006 >> but no more hits for that problem in recent times so I assume it's >> fixed? >> >> root@freebsd /mnt/ >> 11:27 0 # kldstat -v | grep nfs >> 341 nfscommon >> 386 nfslockd >> 344 nfsd >> 385 nfssvc >> 342 nfs >> 343 nfscl >> 384 nfslock >> >> root@freebsd /mnt/ >> 11:28 0 # flock test -c ls >> flock: test: Operation not supported >> >> root@freebsd /mnt/ >> 11:31 0 # mount | grep nfs >> 10.70.255.8:/home/ on /mnt/ (nfs) > > This may or may not be helpful, but I can't think of anything else at > this time: what version NFS on both sides? NFSv3 on both sides Regards Christoph -- 9FED 5C6C E206 B70A 5857 70CA 9655 22B9 D49A E731 Debian Developer | Lisp Hacker | CaCert Assurer From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 14:56:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7447E106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:56:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrian@andrian.no-ip.info) Received: from andrian.no-ip.info (112-104-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net [91.124.104.112]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B8A8FC0A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:56:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from exchange.dom2009.com (exchange.dom2009.com [10.144.40.5]) by andrian.no-ip.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510F6B81E for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:49:10 +0300 (EEST) Received: from exchange.dom2009.com ([10.144.40.5]) by exchange.dom2009.com ([10.144.40.5]) with mapi; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:49:07 +0300 From: =?windows-1251?Q?=C0=ED=E4=F0=B3=E0=ED?= To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:49:05 +0300 Thread-Topic: Problem gnome2-2.32.1_4 not work libgcrypt-1.5.0 (freebsd 8.2 release) Thread-Index: Ac0Klm1Xz5bPVLtLQNSvjmEcHEecwg== Message-ID: <0466CB9D8F9FDA45B907581E40E1254D01AA336BFCFA@exchange.dom2009.com> Accept-Language: uk-UA Content-Language: ru-RU X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: uk-UA MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:37:23 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Problem gnome2-2.32.1_4 not work libgcrypt-1.5.0 (freebsd 8.2 release) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 14:56:20 -0000 =C4=EE=E1=F0=EE=E3=EE =E4=ED=FF. Hi, I use freebsd version 8.2-RELEASE, installed graphical shell gnome2-2.3= 2.1_4, works without problems, I am satisfied, but that the problem appeare= d when I put the package remmina-0.9.3_1. But is the problem is that the pa= ckage remmina-0.9.3_1 requires the presence of the package libgcrypt-1.5.0,= and not work with the package libgcrypt-1.4.6, but gnome2-2.32.1_4 not wor= k with libgcrypt-1.5.0 requires libgcrypt-1.4 .6. What to do? =C7 =EF=EE=E2=E0=E3=EE=FE =C0=ED=E4=F0=B3=E0=ED IT-=EF=EE=F1=EB=F3=E3=E8 =EC=EE=E1.: (067) 713 78 01 =EC=EE=E1.: (063) 704 22 44 =E2=E5=E1.: http://andrian.no-ip.info e-mail: andrian@andrian.no-ip.info From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 16:21:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC8D106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:21:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E7F8FC17 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:21:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:fa1e:dfff:feda:c0bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2PGKxTx025258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:21:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q2PGKxTx025258 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q2PGKxTx025258; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4F6F45EB.9070205@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:20:59 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <0466CB9D8F9FDA45B907581E40E1254D01AA336BFCFA@exchange.dom2009.com> In-Reply-To: <0466CB9D8F9FDA45B907581E40E1254D01AA336BFCFA@exchange.dom2009.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig8B9C48885893C8C8B934843F" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: Problem gnome2-2.32.1_4 not work libgcrypt-1.5.0 (freebsd 8.2 release) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:21:04 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig8B9C48885893C8C8B934843F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 25/03/2012 15:49, =C0=ED=E4=F0=B3=E0=ED wrote: > Hi, I use freebsd version 8.2-RELEASE, installed graphical shell > gnome2-2.32.1_4, works without problems, I am satisfied, but that the > problem appeared when I put the package remmina-0.9.3_1. But is the > problem is that the package remmina-0.9.3_1 requires the presence of > the package libgcrypt-1.5.0, and not work with the package > libgcrypt-1.4.6, but gnome2-2.32.1_4 not work with libgcrypt-1.5.0 > requires libgcrypt-1.4 .6. What to do? That's because the libgcrypt ABI version was incremented between 1.4.6 and 1.5.0 The standard approach to dealing with this is to recompile every port that contains applications linking against that shared library. The detailed instructions on how best to do that are in the 20110705 entry in /usr/ports/UPDATING. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enig8B9C48885893C8C8B934843F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk9vResACgkQ8Mjk52CukIyGfgCfcYYoRG3JBTh1HkqXijhiivv1 7qoAn08k51wLTlhE7xjyhIYv2LbcXsH3 =IhhD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig8B9C48885893C8C8B934843F-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 16:35:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64011106566C for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:35:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamebus@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82448FC15 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:35:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by lboi15 with SMTP id i15so4591926lbo.13 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:35:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=GO4RLjmiUzIIh4/1o6RtLI/NfCekCfSEixfkyqbbP0M=; b=rGsfyR4uGgPShlBT8KaSSYXiccKYfiDwvHSNyEpaqmkQl1Lz/rznHaN4Fi3Qj1wCSK 2oPN1NKrdkxtnEfHXYHmCg5K28sC2nI6Y9N/j1C/pbavtD/9MyAfxzq3/RbX72OIK+xw LFRkdW293wuI2Y3mPviW8apFZFUyyGDJwCds8Oq/oLgs03Ag2vQQdY931hQkSzQXT0pg 7A7dvhXA96RCVL3lk2M6/5wmFDNSIv1fngHT6pmQShfTyELZX5vFH3oogG5aht4j2w9L 3ukMjIofRUUd+SetcmF1lh94JwgxU61vE4cXEsDVZae7IQylZZvQqkDRCBkxI/+TSm2J 5nIw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.47.197 with SMTP id f5mr7249058lbn.31.1332693329598; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jamebus@gmail.com Received: by 10.112.115.136 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:35:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1332602260.13137.4.camel@btw.pki2.com> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:35:29 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Ri9dNBvr85a5gdtVtO2qJ24Q6qw Message-ID: From: James To: Dennis Glatting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: clang buildworld broken X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:35:31 -0000 Fixed now in stable/9. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r233468 | marius | 2012-03-25 11:24:42 -0500 (Sun, 25 Mar 2012) | 6 lines MFC: r233105 Declare some variables static in order to reduce the object size and redo r232822 (MFC'ed to stable/9 in r232962) in a less hackish way. The latter now no longer breaks compiling the x86 boot2 with clang. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r233467 | marius | 2012-03-25 11:20:01 -0500 (Sun, 25 Mar 2012) | 7 lines MFC: r232754 (remaining part) Make boot2 build with Clang again. Submitted by: dim (bsd.sys.mk) Reviewed by: dim, jhb ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- James. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 17:26:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31E99106566C for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:26:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87448FC0A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:26:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa07 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q2PHPHWK018661; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:26:26 -0500 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.17]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 13syw3112b-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:26:26 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.101] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:26:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <4F6F3411.40200@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:26:23 -0700 Message-ID: <60E5D4BF-EEFA-4F10-82F4-0DF81F18CF58@fisglobal.com> References: <4F6F3411.40200@herveybayaustralia.com.au> To: Da Rock X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7498, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-03-25_06:2012-03-23, 2012-03-25, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intercepting X11 events X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:26:28 -0000 On Mar 25, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Da Rock wrote: > I'm not 100% sure where else to ask this. I have an annoying window that = disappears when I click close (ha ha, yes I know it will usually do that, b= ut this one doesn't go away) but it is unable to cooperate with the system = tray so it simply becomes "invisible", and hangs about in the background. >=20 > In my investigationings I had a brainwave that since I cannot change the = program (not without enormous effort) in the short term, maybe I can find a= way to terminate the program and manage it externally with a script. >=20 > So I'm looking to find a wrapper, or a script that can intercept the clos= e event and kill the process (can't find a better way to handle it). Any id= eas? >=20 I think you want "x11/xnee" from the ports tree. http://www.freshports.org/x11/xnee/ (blurb) =85 Xnee receives X11 protocol data (e.g. XEvents) from an X server= and prints them to a file (or stout)=85 I'd think you'd be able to watch for the particular Event you're interested= in. Another think you may want to look into is=20 Full disclosure: Haven't used Xnee yet, but it has been on my radar as "som= ething cool to look into" for awhile now. --=20 Devin > The DE is lightweight (Icewm, LXDE, similar) so the tray is either non ex= istent or incompatible; the app itself is (#%$&!) java. Yep, thats right - = it only speaks Gnome/KDE... >=20 > Cheers >=20 >=20 > Afterword: And yes, it took me that long to figure out the Java systray p= roblem and the lack of a solution in my googling. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 17:40:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2861065672 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:40:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D485A8FC1A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:40:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa07 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q2PHPSDB019191; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:40:48 -0500 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.15]) by ltcfislmsgpa07.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 13syw311uw-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:40:48 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.101] (10.14.152.61) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:40:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Devin Teske In-Reply-To: <60E5D4BF-EEFA-4F10-82F4-0DF81F18CF58@fisglobal.com> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:40:45 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <4F6F3411.40200@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <60E5D4BF-EEFA-4F10-82F4-0DF81F18CF58@fisglobal.com> To: Da Rock X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.61] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7498, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-03-25_06:2012-03-23, 2012-03-25, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Intercepting X11 events X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:40:50 -0000 On Mar 25, 2012, at 10:26 AM, Devin Teske wrote: >=20 > On Mar 25, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Da Rock wrote: >=20 >> I'm not 100% sure where else to ask this. I have an annoying window that= disappears when I click close (ha ha, yes I know it will usually do that, = but this one doesn't go away) but it is unable to cooperate with the system= tray so it simply becomes "invisible", and hangs about in the background. >>=20 >> In my investigationings I had a brainwave that since I cannot change the= program (not without enormous effort) in the short term, maybe I can find = a way to terminate the program and manage it externally with a script. >>=20 >> So I'm looking to find a wrapper, or a script that can intercept the clo= se event and kill the process (can't find a better way to handle it). Any i= deas? >>=20 >=20 > I think you want "x11/xnee" from the ports tree. >=20 > http://www.freshports.org/x11/xnee/ >=20 > (blurb) =85 Xnee receives X11 protocol data (e.g. XEvents) from an X serv= er and prints them to a file (or stout)=85 >=20 > I'd think you'd be able to watch for the particular Event you're interest= ed in. >=20 > Another think you may want to look into is=20 Sorry, had a whole list of "cool X11 ports" (like xpra, xmx, and xwatchwin)= , but they didn't fit what you're looking for. No, I think "x11/xnee" is what you're looking for. --=20 Devin >=20 > Full disclosure: Haven't used Xnee yet, but it has been on my radar as "s= omething cool to look into" for awhile now. > --=20 > Devin >=20 >=20 >> The DE is lightweight (Icewm, LXDE, similar) so the tray is either non e= xistent or incompatible; the app itself is (#%$&!) java. Yep, thats right -= it only speaks Gnome/KDE... >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >>=20 >> Afterword: And yes, it took me that long to figure out the Java systray = problem and the lack of a solution in my googling. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.= org" >=20 > _____________ > The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confident= ial. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message = and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any = manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be awa= re that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and rev= iew by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message an= d all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any ma= nner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware= that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and revie= w by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 18:22:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55FF0106566B for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 18:22:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jjuanino@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D419E8FC16 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 18:22:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wern13 with SMTP id n13so4971128wer.13 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:22:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-disposition:x-operating-system:user-agent; bh=MCFg/vE3unR/tjOsNGA19pl3Vy6Y1Yic6KNNvc1WoXc=; b=Yk7/88c3wIAuer2VxO964u9ImTco8UBna7jLb0zk8OdBZ9Qai5udDS4zfkoJGjxlfc k4t5qwhOe7mi05PgYvNd6SNIc6pq//1AXnHaHFZ/ycOFjioF1DdYspsFlHbTY/r1Hlm4 3zl4Pu/H0PMXlFFtPlTClZQk2aYgg7VewFYwxCcVCd4vZeWwf8HKowxq7whQ3hPzmX4I gcgvg6BSrylQsJDmEffWPjx59tlwDwpaAnpcagUCBTMSYtpxh3K/s2G19v9SvqRN21hs E0OqCHH7zMyfEsqhSj2CCRfJ0Kq++pC5dOlFIcnxN0AZMTtjMOy5evly/6ZOz8/bRryT jh1g== Received: by 10.180.14.230 with SMTP id s6mr12457971wic.2.1332699765767; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:22:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from banach (248.Red-79-157-77.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net. [79.157.77.248]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k7sm55792209wia.5.2012.03.25.11.22.44 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:22:39 +0200 From: Jose Garcia Juanino To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120325182238.GA25193@banach> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND" Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Libreoffice daemon in rc script does not work (shell expansion problem) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 18:22:47 -0000 --d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, I am trying to make an rc script to start libreoffice daemon. The aim is convert Open Document files to PDF, HTML and TXT. The script is the following: #!/bin/sh # # PROVIDE: libreoffice # REQUIRE: LOGIN cleanvar usr # KEYWORD: shutdown . /etc/rc.subr soffice_path="/usr/local/lib/libreoffice/program" name="soffice" #soffice_user="svn" procname="${soffice_path}/oosplash.bin" rcvar=`set_rcvar` pidfile="/var/run/${name}.pid" command="/usr/sbin/daemon" command_args="-p $pidfile" command_args="$command_args ${soffice_path}/${name}" command_args="$command_args '--accept=socket,host=golem,port=8100,tcpNoDelay=1;urp'" command_args="$command_args --nologo --headless --nofirststartwizard --invisible" command_args="$command_args --nolockcheck --norestore" stop_precmd="${name}_prestop" soffice_prestop(){ # kill first child process pkill -P `cat $pidfile` } load_rc_config $name run_rc_command "$1" This script works nicely, and starts libreoffice as a root daemon. But I need to start it as another user (svn), thus I comment out the line #soffice_user="svn" After that, something weird happens with then internal expasion in rc functions, and I get: # service soffice restart Starting soffice. Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string eval: urp --nologo --headless --nofirststartwizard --invisible --nolockcheck --norestore": not found /usr/local/etc/rc.d/soffice: WARNING: failed to start soffice I am unable to fix this... I am trying escaping quotes, using backslashes, etc. Any advice will be wellcome. Best regards --d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk9vYm4ACgkQFOo0zaS9RnJfrwCfQva5RNANuXk+DrWlyFOfLX3o C7MAn3KjEJzim+6/cN7GfZ00iuhEj2H9 =GSmd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --d6Gm4EdcadzBjdND-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 19:05:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77B81065672 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:05:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A265F8FC0C for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:05:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SBskR-0006SN-Pb for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:05:03 +0200 Received: from sphinx.oberstadt.wohnheim.uni-mainz.de ([134.93.50.65]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:05:03 +0200 Received: from mail by sphinx.oberstadt.wohnheim.uni-mainz.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:05:03 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Moritz Schlarb Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:45:52 +0200 Lines: 21 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sphinx.oberstadt.wohnheim.uni-mainz.de User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120223 Thunderbird/10.0.1 X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Subject: Performance of Geli compared to Luks X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:05:13 -0000 Hello everyone, My HP Proliant Microserver, which I want to use as a NAS, is using an AMD Turion II Neo N40L processor. The plain disks give me about 100 MB/s using filebench with the fivestreamwrite/multistreamwrite workloads (as software RAID-1 under Linux and zpool mirror under FreeBSD). In Linux, using LUKS with cipher aes-xts-plain64 on a software RAID-1 I get the same ~100 MB/s for the same benchmarks. In FreeBSD, using a mirror zfs pool with underlying GELI with AES-XTS I get only ~50 MB/s. As the encryption algorithms should be the same, I'm wondering why FreeBSD is that slow for nearly exactly the same use case. Any ideas how I could tweak my settings in FreeBSD? Regards, -- Moritz Schlarb From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 19:49:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFB6106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:49:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [IPv6:2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9A66B8FC18 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:49:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ::ffff:69.12.202.165 ([69.12.202.165]) by holgerdanske.com for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:49:32 -0700 Message-ID: <4F6F76CC.7030300@holgerdanske.com> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 12:49:32 -0700 From: David Christensen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20120207 Icedove/3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: LUKS/ dm-crypt/ ext4 appears to be single threaded X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:49:39 -0000 freebsd-questions: Thread moved from debian-user and dm-crypt. http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/03/msg01154.html http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.device-mapper.dm-crypt/5724 I seem to recall FreeBSD having encrypted disks/ filesystems/ whatever. Is there one that is multi-threaded? TIA, David I have a 1.5 TB SATA hard drive I use for back-up's. It has a single large partition encrypted with LUKS/ dm-crypt and formatted with ext4. I've noticed what appears to be single-threaded behavior when one process is performing a long-lived write to the disk (notably 'ssh user@host tar ... > backupfile.tar.gz') and another process attempts to access the disk (either read or write). This is tolerable for a back-up application, but would not be acceptable for multi-user, multi-process, and/or multi-threaded applications (file server, terminal server, web server, etc.). Is this a fundamental limitation of LUKS, dm-crypt, and/or ext4, or something I've configured/ misconfigured? If a fundamental limitation, is there something I can substitute to eliminate the problem? Some manufacturers make hard drives with built-in encryption. Are these supported by Debian, Linux, or BSD? http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/self-encrypting-drives/ Any other comments or suggestions? TIA, David From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 19:51:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7710B106566B for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:51:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keithmck@yahoo.co.uk) Received: from nm6-vm0.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (nm6-vm0.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.146.183.234]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B658B8FC0C for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:51:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [217.146.183.214] by nm6.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2012 19:50:55 -0000 Received: from [217.146.182.75] by tm7.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2012 19:50:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2012 19:50:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1332705055; bh=c10kRhttYKvC0LSbA81pkBOTGSmERezmE5hZIftZS5M=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=FWW4VTkWUJEs9Q66Ik9oBwrk0N4HpKBR2Y3/TCmyUzQREczoKyw/auU8n6axnM96ZYm8y1YWHjBWnm5eeZMJ51qjzbqqjMDUFOFExi2RTXHgScvmY8Hf8g4tKT/TiezB1t4q7uAPUTmSqj0tk41OVEXTg+eL4iAX8hQGVo2oXdM= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 483118.43332.bm@smtp106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: ryGEbqMVM1keTuygKBM7SDOSbqXx5wbYSAOSxE2D9I6T0J9 2Ezuykfr6n84L54ZJoMHx93IbspJsinhimYo8ZV4WXfZk.s9eToWGZIB3jv4 NL_7FvdPFAq5CjDEnou9W4mjWSRBxYAVSvw5EU6O89M3IQA0dqUoZo_xYXcV .cCEhpeZ7xhKonhDgx5bPvk12bnITby53B8JTeDwschRMOxtkdAV0Pkhacmj HIM3Mp8LXzj96GGgk03g3qS_YaeQh1ApfYAqhnBZhJF4exQY8iDpZRYWc3rp laFajAOZDH_wkoMEmrT6IaYL1MGxK_zSMg57q.9xEJ54cs577j2ZJRVI9JiM g_uSdS70CiCc5yUeVrqCYV8r7FckX X-Yahoo-SMTP: 1Mnfo3CswBAvs7KkW0DJRtiO8I2i Received: from [192.168.1.65] (keithmck@109.153.241.195 with plain) by smtp106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2012 12:50:55 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <4F6F7730.3030501@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:51:12 +0100 From: Keith McKenzie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20120207 Icedove/3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120325182238.GA25193@banach> In-Reply-To: <20120325182238.GA25193@banach> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Libreoffice daemon in rc script does not work (shell expansion problem) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:51:02 -0000 On 25/03/12 19:22, Jose Garcia Juanino wrote: > Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string I'm new here, so bear with me, just trying to help. To find an unterminated quoted string, I would suggest loading your script into a programmers editor. Keith -- Sent from Free Open Source Software (FOSS). Debian GNU/Linux From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 20:37:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49343106566C for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:37:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from email2.allantgroup.com (email2.emsphone.com [199.67.51.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7C98FC08 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:37:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by email2.allantgroup.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2PKbjjA019003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:37:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2PKbjQV084524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:37:45 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q2PKbihS084523; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:37:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:37:44 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Moritz Schlarb Message-ID: <20120325203744.GB55964@dan.emsphone.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-OS: FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.2 at email2.allantgroup.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (email2.allantgroup.com [199.67.51.78]); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:37:45 -0500 (CDT) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 199.67.51.78 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Performance of Geli compared to Luks X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:37:47 -0000 In the last episode (Mar 25), Moritz Schlarb said: > My HP Proliant Microserver, which I want to use as a NAS, is using an AMD > Turion II Neo N40L processor. The plain disks give me about 100 MB/s > using filebench with the fivestreamwrite/multistreamwrite workloads (as > software RAID-1 under Linux and zpool mirror under FreeBSD). > > In Linux, using LUKS with cipher aes-xts-plain64 on a software RAID-1 I > get the same ~100 MB/s for the same benchmarks. > > In FreeBSD, using a mirror zfs pool with underlying GELI with AES-XTS I > get only ~50 MB/s. > > As the encryption algorithms should be the same, I'm wondering why FreeBSD > is that slow for nearly exactly the same use case. Any ideas how I could > tweak my settings in FreeBSD? As a first step, I'd try reading/writing from the raw GELI and LUKS devices to rule out performance differences due to the filesystems you're using. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 20:40:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53BC2106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:40:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from email2.allantgroup.com (email2.emsphone.com [199.67.51.116]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F132D8FC27 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:40:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by email2.allantgroup.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2PKZiII018943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:35:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: from dan.emsphone.com (smmsp@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2PKZh9D075082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:35:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan@dan.emsphone.com) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q2PKZhVH075071; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:35:43 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from dan) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:35:43 -0500 From: Dan Nelson To: Christoph Egger Message-ID: <20120325203542.GA55964@dan.emsphone.com> References: <87zkb4lr1y.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87zkb4lr1y.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> X-OS: FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.2 at email2.allantgroup.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.6 (email2.allantgroup.com [199.67.51.78]); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:35:44 -0500 (CDT) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 199.67.51.78 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: NFS locking and linux NFS server X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:40:18 -0000 In the last episode (Mar 25), Christoph Egger said: > Hi all! > > I have a Linux Host (2.6.32 kernel, Debian stable) providong NFS > shares. Locking files on that share works fine for linux clients [0] > while it fails on a freebsd 9.0-STABLE system. The interwebs indicate > there have been problems witha buggy linux implementation back in 2006 > but no more hits for that problem in recent times so I assume it's > fixed? > > root@freebsd /mnt/ > 11:27 0 # kldstat -v | grep nfs > 341 nfscommon > 386 nfslockd > 344 nfsd > 385 nfssvc > 342 nfs > 343 nfscl > 384 nfslock > > root@freebsd /mnt/ > 11:28 0 # flock test -c ls > flock: test: Operation not supported > > root@freebsd /mnt/ > 11:31 0 # mount | grep nfs > 10.70.255.8:/home/ on /mnt/ (nfs) Are you running statd and lockd (in rc.conf, rpc_statd_enable="YES" and rpc_lockd_enable="YES")? Make sure that "rpcinfo localhost" and "rpcinfo otherhost" both show "nlockmgr" and "status" services. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 20:49:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBC6B1065672 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:49:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from skippy311@opentablets.org) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A02678FC22 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:49:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbcwz17 with SMTP id wz17so5868105pbc.13 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=nGRbYRBLsjmxiXcsW9SofeB2U9gk3RdU/gyWxk93WcE=; b=I7lwlWgTL3NMWZFWohK01xYy8HpHo4Oh2FzA9cSnp/bf53Kt8YnVnyUyfGwHHGiJQF TOKyz+k6UXpEy1poGSznmNVcUjPgsV5demJxdO02lUqsDSH9G1PUkB9mJ3lkja86Acsr coMd3aBAJfwN58E/FtsZC5Nv+mIrWS1dK23Po2gRgkd3o8bKfJcOpp/GeY/sHNx674wi WXCTPkkJ5XXculJVYHgkm8gsqKjx8cjAsiSnL03vdX/7Ph1cqlAhIBFok2O3LHmtUwzt zbqYPaE7rVfgqRDedoZvTM/jqN3F+QVh/XnI3n7VC5hHxbVWsrkyqlrdsmAE/U7vB/g6 jZyA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.202.167 with SMTP id kj7mr48422113pbc.9.1332708540468; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.15.102 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [98.216.127.244] Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:49:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Skippy 311 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk/Z+TlhQK4YzLHv6JQNTeUpixgDr+/VC9TBCb24Nuq4zdNm3jowk10PszX/HCwdpBZfZk/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:49:00 -0000 With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux, I was curious if there was any plans to make an official push to put something together for this tablet. It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this tablet can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet would be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this tablet, and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future. -John Kelley (Skippy) @ Opentablets.org From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 20:53:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8278106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:53:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christoph@christoph-egger.org) Received: from 1und1.siccegge.de (cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a01:198:200:500::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C4B8FC1A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:53:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dsl01.212.114.250.148.ip-pool.nefkom.net ([212.114.250.148] helo=localhost) by 1und1.siccegge.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SBuQx-0001bP-Ip for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:53:03 +0200 From: Christoph Egger To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: Privat References: <87zkb4lr1y.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> <20120325203542.GA55964@dan.emsphone.com> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:54:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20120325203542.GA55964@dan.emsphone.com> (sfid-20120325_223601_634937_086CCB86) (Dan Nelson's message of "Sun, 25 Mar 2012 15:35:43 -0500") Message-ID: <874ntcflld.fsf@hepworth.siccegge.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.94 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: NFS locking and linux NFS server X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:53:04 -0000 Hi! Dan Nelson writes: > Are you running statd and lockd (in rc.conf, rpc_statd_enable="YES" and > rpc_lockd_enable="YES")? Make sure that "rpcinfo localhost" and "rpcinfo > otherhost" both show "nlockmgr" and "status" services. it was missing nfs_client_enable="YES" Thanks everyone for the answers! Regards Christoph -- 9FED 5C6C E206 B70A 5857 70CA 9655 22B9 D49A E731 Debian Developer | Lisp Hacker | CaCert Assurer From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 22:36:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71550106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:36:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bfls@netspace.net.au) Received: from webmail.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au (webmail.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.146]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB948FC26 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:36:15 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap0EAEWcb08KAiwp/2dsb2JhbABDhT+zboIzfg0CJgJ6rneRBoEvjFWCDIEYBJtxA4oZgns X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,317,1330876800"; d="scan'208";a="844811103" Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) ([10.2.44.41]) by outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out1.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 26 Mar 2012 06:33:05 +0800 Message-Id: <834860023a4539687d1ace08f9f5fe27ec202fdf@webmail-beta.netspace.net.au> From: "Barbara La Scala" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Atmail 6.3.3.9181 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:33:05 +1100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:36:16 -0000 Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he wa= nts my advice=0Aabout how to get online. I have no idea where to start l= ooking for information on hardware=0Aand/or software for him. However, I= vaguely remember someone on this list saying they =0Awere visually impa= ired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really appreciate it if that per= son=0Awould get in touch with me.=0A=0AThanks=0ABarbara From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 23:29:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41DBD1065670 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:29:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EADB98FC1F for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:29:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 060085C22 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:42:42 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F6FAA42.1060609@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:29:06 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:29:09 -0000 On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote: > With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the > Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux, The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one showing up :) > I was curious if there was any > plans to make an official push to put something together for this tablet. > It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this tablet > can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet would > be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this tablet, > and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future. FreeBSD on a tablet would be an interesting idea. Not sure about this one though... Looks like one of those ones going on eBay for $50. You can always grab one of those and hack it to run FBSD. Perhaps this should go to embedded though? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 23:31:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30F61065670 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:31:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5453E8FC12 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:31:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C181DDD9; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:24:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2PNOhcV004541; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:24:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:24:43 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "Barbara La Scala" Message-Id: <20120326012443.3ad290f7.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <834860023a4539687d1ace08f9f5fe27ec202fdf@webmail-beta.netspace.net.au> References: <834860023a4539687d1ace08f9f5fe27ec202fdf@webmail-beta.netspace.net.au> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:31:47 -0000 On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:33:05 +1100, Barbara La Scala wrote: > Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he wants my advice > about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for information on hardware > and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list saying they > were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really appreciate it if that person > would get in touch with me. The "old-fashioned" way to enable blind persons to use a computer for getting online involves a way to read text. This can be done basically in two ways: a) The user has a Braille readout right infront of his keyboard. This is usually a one or two line combination of 40 or 80 characters width, with electromagnetic Braille "mountain matrices" (6 or 8 dot code). This line can display one line of screen text. Which line (out of the 25 on the screen) can be selected by a slider on the side. +------------------------------+ | Suche Bilder Videos Maps News| | | | Google | | Deutschland | <---selection---+ | | | | __________________________ | | | Search Good luck! | | | | | | | | | H)elp O)ptions P)rint G)o | | +------------------------------+ | | __ . .... .... .... ... | .. ................__ ... .... | .. _................_ ... .... | .. _...............__ .... | .. __.............___ . .... | .. __._.________._.__ ... __.. | | | :::::::###########::::::::::::: <---output------+ (Deutschland) b) The user uses a similar selection mechanism as with the Braille readout, but a synthetic voice will read the text. Speed and volume can be controlled. (This is also available as a pure software solution!) Most blind persons (I've met) seem to be fine with variant a) as it fits their reading habits, their speed, their experience. The input method of choice is the keyboard, as it (obviously) does not need any visual confirmation. The "travelling distance" for the fingers from typing to reading (and back) is acceptable. For purchasing the hardware, I would suggest to consult the web for some search, and then maybe attend a local specialized store to obtain the devices. They tend to be a bit expensive. Make sure to get hardware specs: How is it connected? Does it require proprietary drivers? Does it work with "normal text screens"? Niche market... :-( Now for the software. In order to get the text to the Braille readout, you need software that runs in text mode. On FreeBSD, this is the default mode (unless you install GUI tools). Getting online is very easy (see The FreeBSD Handbook), and everything you now need is a web browser. Recommendations: links, lynx, w3m. For participating in email, I may recommend alpine (pine), but there are many other powerful text mode mail clients that one could try and find the most comfortable one. Other services, such as IRC, News, or messenger services can also be used. Just to throw some program names into the wild: irc, BitchX, tin, elm, centericq. The ports collection offers a wide choice of programs for FreeBSD. Configure the OS to accomodate to the needs of the Internet connection (DHCP, PPPoE, dial-up, WLAN - whatever is present). A confortable dialog shell is also useful to quickly communicate with the computer and launch the programs that the user wants to use. Maybe a preconfigured environment (with selections such as "mail", "web", "news", "chat" as command words) is a good idea. One last thing: Regarding the "modern" web, don't assume you'll find many pages that are accessible by blind persons. Just try some average web pages in one of the text mode web browsers mentioned. They only work well when the person who has made the web page did pay attention to make it accessible by handicapped users. This is something that is mostly forgotten today, and the tendency with "rich web applications" is that unrestricted access to _content_ will be less and less common. Artificial barriers are raised by "teh Interwebs progammerz" abusing tools (e. g. "Flash" as a replacement for few lines of HTML). The tendency is that it's just getting worse and worse, sadly... I hope I could give you some inspiration on where to start further investigations. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 23:47:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E748E106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:47:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jherman@dichotomia.fr) Received: from mail.dichotomia.fr (hydrogen.dichotomia.net [91.121.82.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E948FC19 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:47:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.2.11] (unknown [109.190.13.180]) (Authenticated sender: kha@dichotomia.fr) by sslmail.dichotomia.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 069AD3DD07D for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:40:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:39:33 +0200 From: Jerome Herman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FAA42.1060609@herveybayaustralia.com.au> In-Reply-To: <4F6FAA42.1060609@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (sslmail.dichotomia.fr); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:40:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:47:44 -0000 On 26/03/2012 01:29, Da Rock wrote: > On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote: >> With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the >> Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux, > The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one > showing up :) Indeed, I felt very alone going there too. >> I was curious if there was any >> plans to make an official push to put something together for this >> tablet. >> It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this >> tablet >> can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet >> would >> be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this tablet, >> and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future. > FreeBSD on a tablet would be an interesting idea. Not sure about this > one though... Looks like one of those ones going on eBay for $50. You > can always grab one of those and hack it to run FBSD. The main problem (though it is actually a FreeBSD strength) is that most FreeBSD dev code to solve their own problems. I don not think I am wrong when I say that a vast majority of FreeBSD contributor are also heavy users of the functionalities they code. So the question is "Are there enough FreeBSD dev that see any kind of interest in having a tablet ?". Personally I still don't, even though quite a lot of people tried to explain it to me. Also the site lacks the main thing that could get the FreeBSD community on the spot : specs. I managed to learn it was a 1ghz ARM with 512MB ram and 4GB storage, and that is about it. Arm architecture being what it is (basically whatever the constructor decided to use at that moment with no standard as to how he did it) there is absolutely no way to start any kind of port short of reverse engeniring the linux version. My personal opinion is "not worth the trouble". > > Perhaps this should go to embedded though? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Mar 25 23:36:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141DC106564A for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:36:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stanley.aisi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE3F8FC22 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:36:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so4917540bkc.13 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:36:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=QxnLooXVIlSESu2hv5D2SyTYFV9YJ28pN3B8AZRa89o=; b=dhlY3JP9ZL0SMQ/Yd3fOjecAwMa4Sw2V/eOq1ePJ5K8Z/IdP4pvzha+S8IYY5UCkU1 t+fIMpR+44qo9uBpEYFHCaXS/D+00+GxdEwTqDAsgZTR6laRzH6r5oKO3XDxJ/oJZILD KFtO4EMUFMMPH7gHn0ZFMFhzQ+YJJ2cU5b4XbPlGeJvtbd+5EF9j1fmJ8/BWst0+CjtE xLiS+72S9kl/WHiNGc4yhi39QbszApmdjqkM5lh9U/SnMes8CtjU4wMBEVMCFm2X7JHl 9XWLKQwOjtOEj7mrKTiiH/7pFQGXEBL1IbTcLNxtHYrOY2OUdgeruuyEEg3yd3pWQAk0 34ag== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.12 with SMTP id e12mr7750822bkw.29.1332718595351; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.195.137 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 16:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:36:35 +1000 Message-ID: From: Stanley Aisi To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:51:08 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: need help in freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:36:37 -0000 hi there, i need your help in freebsd regards, Stanley papua new guinea From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 00:06:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94298106566B for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:06:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eam1edward@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560DD8FC0C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:06:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbuo13 with SMTP id uo13so6106596obb.13 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:06:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Mu5Fk9b/kdGxkrjdV43Sn5Rm6t11xIVeib/kcnYywgE=; b=JIlQ4rYQNWUsh6faAFiTsuOHQyQYs4Frh6pgYyA+winsbQ3H+54Ukq/lgK1Y690p+q SsK/CtaNyudwe6g77qWq5lvpVovxscmH6M1KNaC1wDAEQRG9xMhV+dB+3TvE2wQBZAmD T7vCEO4LEHnNemBoyq42INb/EHB0j8RGMg0GOGICi0tRcWPsn3OCgogFEVAh0xo5Ffvz wWTzD5Xos9qU65G0kSImmg+OPqujmmxOP/O5SfLs9YG7Eu1l0ZNq0GAnr2skW0ULrlmo NThs/FO1FylEaQ20XFFLWe8faRUYxvz0Vn91VhbRmYAeOnjjVSvDZip0PcUDymHV2OiX Us5g== Received: by 10.182.12.37 with SMTP id v5mr25283396obb.16.1332720415684; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([174.134.109.226]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s2sm11513356oea.2.2012.03.25.17.06.54 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F6FB435.10606@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:11:33 -0700 From: Edward M User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120314 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: need help in freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:06:56 -0000 On 03/25/2012 04:36 PM, Stanley Aisi wrote: > hi there, > > i need your help in freebsd > > regards, > > Stanley > papua new guinea > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > One is seeking the wrong kind of help... http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/article.html#AEN114 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 00:22:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF0D1065670 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:22:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.226.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415BB8FC23 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:22:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from amd620.ovitrap.com ([49.128.188.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q2Q0Lrf0017373; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 18:22:05 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:22:17 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/8.3-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201203260722.17379.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Stanley Aisi Subject: Re: need help in freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:22:07 -0000 Hi, On Monday 26 March 2012 06:36:35 Stanley Aisi wrote: > hi there, > > i need your help in freebsd > you found the right place to get help but you have to be a bit more specific. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 00:22:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AE441065672 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:22:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 413D48FC24 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:22:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q2Q0LpOF084377; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:21:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:21:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> Cc: skippy311@opentablets.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 00:22:31 -0000 Jerome Herman wrote: > On 26/03/2012 01:29, Da Rock wrote: > > On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote: > >> With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the > >> Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux, > > The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one > > showing up :) > > Indeed, I felt very alone going there too. yuppers. > >> I was curious if there was any > >> plans to make an official push to put something together for this > >> tablet. Considering that FreeBS positions itself 'primrily' as a _server_ OS, I would suggest that it is 'unlikely'. *I*, for one, would hope that porting to the 'Rasberry Pi' has higher priority. Now, if "somebody" in the 'Vivaldi' community wants to gather up _all_ the relevant 'technical data' for configuring/accessing/programming *ALL* the included hardware, and -publish- it in one EASILY ACCESSIBLE place, that would be a good start. If such a "somebody" were to _also_ provide 'funding' for a porting project, that would undoubtedly move such a project to a high position on the 'to do' list'. Otherwise, "Skippy", you, -YOURSELF-. will need to find a 'guru' with the appropriate knowledge/skills *and* "enough interest' in the project to tackle it. Good Luck. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 02:02:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F3FB106564A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 02:02:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from colin.barnabas@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA38D8FC0C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 02:02:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbuo13 with SMTP id uo13so6232587obb.13 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:02:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=zQmrew7HTema0Mt88kMXdQo78I53lmLpX+xapP7dcQ8=; b=H9X2HmDh1/RPDcH2AMyIhzf8emW49+yAnL27Hn3fsrMZUC885r+Ulsw5yMn/MLNASu BIpFBf+/gzz1dUAszLjIeeDgqmJd+H1Uq4fSWy7tg5Hfwk9CxTmTSuN2obnwmTdEU+rI z3gG+k1Eeg+EhzJGD1l5mlLgU+1fYNsf9YkyT1BF16KDsULxdqUz1wdHlwIWc+FWUj2j rPgDydideyIg5NPU96M13n54a1PMXF00VP5PVp8TsFgCLEOK/j804PnCmYEcRQHwfwV1 xMEIwQCI4NB3L2uNjf4az5rDP2Iaf2KNCdJ9s8dFT1sBJ3Go4QRhaa5NrblMb2cJsmfy xUyA== Received: by 10.60.27.38 with SMTP id q6mr13232980oeg.20.1332727329087; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ip68-106-253-107.ph.ph.cox.net. [68.106.253.107]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9sm15093345obq.0.2012.03.25.19.02.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:02:29 -0700 From: Colin Barnabas To: Stanley Aisi Message-ID: <20120326020229.GA1851@hs1.VERBENA> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: need help in freebsd X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 02:02:10 -0000 On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 09:36:35AM +1000, Stanley Aisi wrote: > hi there, > > i need your help in freebsd > > regards, > > Stanley > papua new guinea > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Go on... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 02:12:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA2E106564A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 02:12:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CBB78FC2A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 02:12:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E32F5C22 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:26:14 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F6FD097.2010906@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:12:39 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FAA42.1060609@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> In-Reply-To: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 02:12:41 -0000 On 03/26/12 09:39, Jerome Herman wrote: > On 26/03/2012 01:29, Da Rock wrote: >> On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote: >>> With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the >>> Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux, >> The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one >> showing up :) > > Indeed, I felt very alone going there too. > >>> I was curious if there was any >>> plans to make an official push to put something together for this >>> tablet. >>> It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this >>> tablet >>> can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet >>> would >>> be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this >>> tablet, >>> and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future. >> FreeBSD on a tablet would be an interesting idea. Not sure about this >> one though... Looks like one of those ones going on eBay for $50. You >> can always grab one of those and hack it to run FBSD. > > The main problem (though it is actually a FreeBSD strength) is that > most FreeBSD dev code to solve their own problems. I don not think I > am wrong when I say that a vast majority of FreeBSD contributor are > also heavy users of the functionalities they code. > So the question is "Are there enough FreeBSD dev that see any kind of > interest in having a tablet ?". Personally I still don't, even though > quite a lot of people tried to explain it to me. > Also the site lacks the main thing that could get the FreeBSD > community on the spot : specs. I managed to learn it was a 1ghz ARM > with 512MB ram and 4GB storage, and that is about it. Arm architecture > being what it is (basically whatever the constructor decided to use at > that moment with no standard as to how he did it) there is absolutely > no way to start any kind of port short of reverse engeniring the linux > version. My personal opinion is "not worth the trouble". I'm still weighing up the options, but I would. A few barriers to surmount though... > >> >> Perhaps this should go to embedded though? >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 04:05:53 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED17106566B; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 04:05:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chiefereh866@realliving.com) Received: from mnsi.net (dyn216-8-163-172.ADSL.mnsi.net [216.8.163.172]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75BC8FC1D; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 04:05:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from apache by freebsd.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from , , ) id 125O3N-QL93TL-C9 for , , ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:05:52 -0500 To: , , X-PHP-Script: freebsd.org/sendmail.php for 216.8.163.172 From: , , X-Sender: , , X-Mailer: PHP X-Priority: 1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:05:52 -0500 Cc: Subject: Administrative Sales Support - Virtual Office X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 04:05:53 -0000 I would like to take this time to welcome you to our hiring process and give you a brief synopsis of the position's benefits and requirements. 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To request an application form, schedule your interview and receive more information about this position please reply to Michael@jobdayseu.com,with your personal identification number for this position IDNO: 3630 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 08:00:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE31F1065678 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:00:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gallasch@free.de) Received: from smtp.free.de (smtp.free.de [91.204.6.103]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855AE8FC22 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:00:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 49533 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2012 09:53:40 +0200 Received: from smtp.free.de (HELO orwell.free.de) (gallasch@free.de@[91.204.4.103]) (envelope-sender ) by smtp.free.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 26 Mar 2012 09:53:40 +0200 From: Kai Gallasch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <2B4CD2A7-0190-480A-AE50-F824D555E60F@free.de> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:53:40 +0200 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: Availability of freebsd-stable snapshot releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:00:27 -0000 Hi. I wonder why there are no more stable freebsd-stable snapshots made = available on the ftp servers. Was there an official explanation? ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots The process of publishing them somehow stopped in mid-2011. =46rom time to time it comes in very handy for testing purposes, to have = snapshot releases available. Kai. BTW: If replying, please CC me, as I am not on this list.= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 08:04:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABA9F106566C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:04:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (blue.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1444D8FC21 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:04:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2Q7gl7k062458; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:42:48 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Message-ID: <4F701DF7.1050907@qeng-ho.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:42:47 +0100 From: Arthur Chance User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120317 Thunderbird/10.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Barbara La Scala References: <834860023a4539687d1ace08f9f5fe27ec202fdf@webmail-beta.netspace.net.au> In-Reply-To: <834860023a4539687d1ace08f9f5fe27ec202fdf@webmail-beta.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:04:55 -0000 On 03/25/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote: > Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he wants my advice > about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for information on hardware > and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list saying they > were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really appreciate it if that person > would get in touch with me. This link might help. It's the RNIB page on using technology when blind or partially sighted. The link to the beginner's guides is where you should start. http://www.rnib.org.uk/livingwithsightloss/computersphones/Pages/computers_mobile_phones.aspx However, as Polytropon said in his mail, there are far too many web pages with no real accessibility for anyone with less than perfect faculties, in spite of the fact it's a legal requirement in many countries. A friend of mine is an accessibility consultant and has regular rants about this. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 08:18:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD4C106567F for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:18:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0828FC1A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:18:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:fa1e:dfff:feda:c0bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2Q8IX9D043900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:18:34 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q2Q8IX9D043900 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q2Q8IX9D043900; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4F70264F.6060708@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:18:23 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <2B4CD2A7-0190-480A-AE50-F824D555E60F@free.de> In-Reply-To: <2B4CD2A7-0190-480A-AE50-F824D555E60F@free.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigE1FD663F82BC4518588392DD" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: Availability of freebsd-stable snapshot releases X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:18:42 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigE1FD663F82BC4518588392DD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 26/03/2012 08:53, Kai Gallasch wrote: > I wonder why there are no more stable freebsd-stable snapshots made ava= ilable on the ftp servers. > Was there an official explanation? >=20 > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots >=20 > The process of publishing them somehow stopped in mid-2011. > > From time to time it comes in very handy for testing purposes, to have = snapshot releases available. >=20 The RE team has been busy with actual releases since about that date: first 9.0 and at the moment 8.3. Even so, this does seem to have fallen by the wayside. As an alternative, allbsd.org carries snapshots: ftp://ftp.allbsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-snapshots/ If you're concerned about downloading OS images from random sites on the net (and you should be), this site is run by a leading FreeBSD developer hrs@FreeBSD.org and I think it's trustworthy. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigE1FD663F82BC4518588392DD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk9wJlkACgkQ8Mjk52CukIy85QCfchLmJ4aXz6dG7CLQJq7wGmHG jSgAn2mUCqGYIL2GP8dyiIC2beAQzotb =el6c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigE1FD663F82BC4518588392DD-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 08:41:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE3F1065670 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:41:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from beni.brinckman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D709B8FC0C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:41:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbuo13 with SMTP id uo13so6718689obb.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:41:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=xe7k75txyb6ejXpYBUVciHAlabu8B6C/pvVzEgN/jTQ=; b=XKvSK/6ngIMcrEZ1uacxszVcvbLBd9BSwrpYOLAmFMyKUVL8Lq7zNjRb6WoqarsoKr 1RA/h6HcKl7VuG+dnDhqz+ijFqU9f2ejSCcbabyqxaENTttWaoEqOQYfLI4//lm/jhIG pOboC4F2KdjFO39DgM9TSmO9gWaql3y1gGRKPJZBKqRYaZBoZJVT3PXGqh5JLKK0fZmK jYNYEwmIsKAFYwsKvjKEaH7oX6rglXunlIXL9Zz/3aZ0Hu5vb+iTfXgTrC9M8baoAg+J F+5xUFHp4HM0qHlFtDKTq2IAsehAbcHyQc3upU2q8Z1hMcSEGloKt0GhEOruEa4oku6i WEjQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.7.196 with SMTP id l4mr25841019oea.8.1332751307254; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.64.34 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:41:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F701DF7.1050907@qeng-ho.org> References: <834860023a4539687d1ace08f9f5fe27ec202fdf@webmail-beta.netspace.net.au> <4F701DF7.1050907@qeng-ho.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:41:47 +0200 Message-ID: From: Beni Brinckman To: freebsd@qeng-ho.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 08:41:48 -0000 Op 26 maart 2012 09:42 heeft Arthur Chance het volgende geschreven: > On 03/25/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote: >> >> Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he >> wants my advice >> about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for >> information on hardware >> and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list >> saying they >> were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really >> appreciate it if that person >> would get in touch with me. > > > This link might help. It's the RNIB page on using technology when blind or > partially sighted. The link to the beginner's guides is where you should > start. > > http://www.rnib.org.uk/livingwithsightloss/computersphones/Pages/computers_mobile_phones.aspx > > However, as Polytropon said in his mail, there are far too many web pages > with no real accessibility for anyone with less than perfect faculties, in > spite of the fact it's a legal requirement in many countries. A friend of > mine is an accessibility consultant and has regular rants about this. Maybe this can help too : http://www.brlspeak.net/ and its creator Aldo Beni From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 09:32:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93ABB1065673 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:32:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keithmck@yahoo.co.uk) Received: from nm18.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com (nm18.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com [77.238.189.71]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D7E738FC18 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:32:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [77.238.189.55] by nm18.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2012 09:32:00 -0000 Received: from [217.146.189.70] by tm8.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2012 09:32:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp150.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2012 09:32:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1332754320; bh=BRB6T1D+kT6iH4YzS/GcRUvOY+aeNOP83fC7zxjwsSY=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5oCqjkv8NWzDQokvYZF6uDkxBBF++p1P/CrsGUlZwj/JCH7LZtV3FL7izVVdhWpGvZ7peKhZUS/i9UnDEdBIYuV6Gdws2rr1hgPHf2HwrS/cdfwrxHspZLaj4mO4s/IByllC60ZOVWGorIU/MOiNoMvNFrisEAHUNvZCd3cDpBQ= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 753583.2605.bm@smtp150.mail.ird.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 054rDWoVM1kOTlo9PLcUwfaWhWqAPCNnqPW2Ydw9kRPBJLg ecHkms337T_GGZEY6vZsXCe7dUEoQ5Xj0T8CMgts_jFgWTKGcsem9m4w35D_ sixCO6pIQuLiJmLl0mAISFcGeeIgN6hyaqDKc5E4LhO3AzGASWnpEpmkzCNo Gravs9JRzigZS7qQL5dxmJwSUV9MMztn3yworA8KbUeYQQY5TFTAfqz6Lbqs Su02hv37ONGnN5hRQ8hODhvtRAV2RyWZjrEvQErr4U9MoBE5TshE4XOCcA4q PeozoHgA5H1a4Y6DO8gaRJcBgJSDt.sHMa2wsCF6sya6Dxszq4YAL_Fx01Uk CNBNjRIrXKFLDQiGEvNd6UOsUXiHixTe.GRpQ7ikzudYSJUipHZNU__ptaEK edUriq3DJpYaxnbOjQKKUIXQoe2Jp5f3w1SKF6A-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 1Mnfo3CswBAvs7KkW0DJRtiO8I2i Received: from [192.168.1.65] (keithmck@86.140.31.142 with plain) by smtp150.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2012 02:32:00 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <4F7037A2.3000401@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:32:18 +0100 From: Keith McKenzie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20120207 Icedove/3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:32:08 -0000 On 25/03/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote: > Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and he wants my advice > about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for information on hardware > and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this list saying they > were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really appreciate it if that person > would get in touch with me. > > Thanks > Barbara > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > I know this is the FreeBSD forum, but there is a Linux ready made live distro that might help. It is called Knoppix Adriane, & was conceived for the authors blind wife. It can be found at www.knoppix.net. I hope I haven't upset anyone for talking Linux here. :) Keith PS Re sent as it seemed to get blocked before: have changed email address. Apologies if it gets duplicated. -- Sent from Free Open Source Software (FOSS). Debian GNU/Linux From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 10:12:20 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D679F1065672 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:12:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEE78FC16 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:12:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CD605C22 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:25:53 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F704100.6020303@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:12:16 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F7037A2.3000401@yahoo.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4F7037A2.3000401@yahoo.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:12:20 -0000 On 03/26/12 19:32, Keith McKenzie wrote: > On 25/03/12 23:33, Barbara La Scala wrote: > > Apologies for the off topic posting but my stepfather is blind and > he wants my advice > > about how to get online. I have no idea where to start looking for > information on hardware > > and/or software for him. However, I vaguely remember someone on this > list saying they > > were visually impaired. If I'm remembering correctly, I'd really > appreciate it if that person > > would get in touch with me. > > > > Thanks > > Barbara > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > I know this is the FreeBSD forum, but there is a Linux ready made live > distro that might help. It is called Knoppix Adriane, & was conceived > for the authors blind wife. It can be found at www.knoppix.net. > > I hope I haven't upset anyone for talking Linux here. :) I'm going to have to dredge up my copy and check that out - it sounds very interesting.... primarily because the techniques could be easily adapted here :P From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 12:06:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845391065670 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:06:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prankur.07@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117798FC08 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:06:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wern13 with SMTP id n13so5494948wer.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 05:06:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=gxp3aJKyZF83V9HytgBFoW76oO/X7KyPmUTmkV/2I0g=; b=MQWWKVstvSK66Sx2ElZLi8FfU7lzjEjBzJFA+i1wcDoQXA37gLJ3VKQbRtAUyeijus dYgX6Pbzzsv05x+OuvTkPLdsTFU7Unb4NdNHzQrO5MmYaUQ9fQMXZoetuioRNsDCXukC lRjXFPb6hmNHOUhf8jhAU46fB0fGyPnmHZ5aS7YYErLyDBmdsxy5LAaM3h7wNRoEZWzU Thn6fMEw4sNIuhlAvykMlPMd5JIRLYucFQUsm0U5if5qPKbQOxUfD7IjEOZaD1HmcXnV BfM60ZyOPZpbmA2IFhDk8FtaONzaAoJf03ufLFmEN/Kcoh7ieDpX1hjEdyIYzQ9dvU4a Q5zg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.137.156 with SMTP id y28mr12290401wei.61.1332763613092; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 05:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.63.76 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 05:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:36:53 +0530 Message-ID: From: prankur gupta To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: GSOC 2012 interest X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:06:54 -0000 Hi, Currently I am in my first year of Masters in Computer Science from SUNY, New York. I want to participate in GSOC 2012. I am new to the open source development arena, so what better place than GSOC to start with. So, I was going through the projects list offered by freebsd. In that list, I am interested in developing "Automated kernel crash reporting system". The reason for my interest is that I am studying OS in my current semester and I have done a lot of work on kernel level. Apart from this I have a good knowledge of C and have hands on html and sql. Also I have done a course on cryptography. So, this project seems appropriate for my start. So, I wanted to know is the project already in progress or its a new one. And any more information about the project will be very helpful. I am really interested in this project, so it would be very kind if you could share more details on the project and requirements so that I can work on them from now only and develop a good proposal. Thanks and regards. PRANKUR GUPTA Masters Student (CSE) State University of New York Stony Brook University From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 12:17:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E5E106567A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:17:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from keithmck@yahoo.co.uk) Received: from nm3-vm0.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com (nm3-vm0.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com [77.238.189.213]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BFEE88FC24 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:17:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [77.238.189.232] by nm3.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2012 12:17:21 -0000 Received: from [217.146.188.165] by tm13.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2012 12:17:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp133.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2012 12:17:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1332764241; bh=N1fWBFn6EhpHwNExLj48WH7F8ZulaDVthyVpFXVZ4Kg=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=yYi1G3WG49NiNI0kB3Y/ZvEJdpNFQwNHZwqW5cxKISHfDQ9J8GW6UfsFtmEDiVCcQL592DGssFmomhAefi/sYg7y4qT/VAywbdxRpUT91CvKQ0Q2qg6xCv6xjMnSlpkS0Ho/D+u9nZ8b3+gAoDZPEVcrWgJNVqqJ6Kz0QmyEYlY= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 698528.72039.bm@smtp133.mail.ird.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 3qfnCW8VM1kpFYnRKdRxNXXoZa4dytKq3.3Vy2hj8ChmsU4 4.ZM0m3TK72BCqULaVjIBYec_6yyrM4AJ7xWFe6CEcI5ceAheBqjpYpVvgt4 R6NpLzMk.UdbTx9d4L6KUoEjyafYKoomKP4XuXIu6iRlm_25ahqvwe_8I_RN Zz9rvlXfcboGAEyUGTzkOAfi.YVuxB5LhwGXr9cC5oc2b7Q5kPO463kahm43 wyO2fSfLM2j9Evg0ttSyS6feMI8h0YE1jfn8kQ4zf6MDAV.Gy3m4TlQHDsGu MEVHBAnTZ_gfisgRzis6i32KIRAwuPcYPODOhWjRAyX1gXRY29SNt8DjzsnP H0jFK8MI1kdZBTW63NoEJ2cMoQQ-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 1Mnfo3CswBAvs7KkW0DJRtiO8I2i Received: from [192.168.1.65] (keithmck@86.140.31.142 with plain) by smtp133.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2012 05:17:21 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <4F705E62.9080203@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:17:38 +0100 From: Keith McKenzie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20120207 Icedove/3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F7037A2.3000401@yahoo.co.uk> <4F704100.6020303@herveybayaustralia.com.au> In-Reply-To: <4F704100.6020303@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:17:29 -0000 On 26/03/12 11:12, Da Rock wrote: > O > I'm going to have to dredge up my copy and check that out - it sounds > very interesting.... primarily because the techniques could be easily > adapted here :P > On version 6; not sure if it came earlier. Keith -- Sent from Free Open Source Software (FOSS). Debian GNU/Linux From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 12:56:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D751065675 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:56:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E098F8FC15 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:55:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:fa1e:dfff:feda:c0bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2QCtpCZ099876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:55:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q2QCtpCZ099876 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q2QCtpCZ099876; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4F70674E.9090806@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:55:42 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF8CF7BC9FB2C96BAAEBC69A3" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: GSOC 2012 interest X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:56:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF8CF7BC9FB2C96BAAEBC69A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 26/03/2012 13:06, prankur gupta wrote: > Currently I am in my first year of Masters in Computer Science from SUN= Y, > New York. >=20 > I want to participate in GSOC 2012. I am new to the open source develop= ment > arena, so what better place than GSOC to start with. >=20 > So, I was going through the projects list offered by freebsd. In that l= ist, > I am interested in developing "Automated kernel crash reporting system"= =2E >=20 > The reason for my interest is that I am studying OS in my current semes= ter > and I have done a lot of work on kernel level. Apart from this I have a= > good knowledge of C and have hands on html and sql. Also I have done a > course on cryptography. So, this project seems appropriate for my start= =2E >=20 > So, I wanted to know is the project already in progress or its a new on= e. > And any more information about the project will be very helpful. >=20 > I am really interested in this project, so it would be very kind if you= > could share more details on the project and requirements so that I can = work > on them from now only and develop a good proposal. You'll contact more potential mentors and probably get a better response if you ask on soc-admins@freebsd.org, or try the #freebsd-soc IRC channel on Efnet. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigF8CF7BC9FB2C96BAAEBC69A3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk9wZ1YACgkQ8Mjk52CukIzvKQCgld2ElK0O4U+sa7vz/3AfH+PJ WuEAn0ESEqgz4M0bwFPYCPfcuVmrz+Tp =E0nr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF8CF7BC9FB2C96BAAEBC69A3-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 13:47:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from hub.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A43C1065687 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:47:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:47:42 +0000 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: freebsd-isp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Errors-To: owner-freebsd-isp@freebsd.org Subject: Your message to freebsd-isp awaits moderator approval X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:47:43 -0000 Your mail to 'freebsd-isp' with the subject Zarob 200-400 EUR za dwie godziny pracy juz w następnym tygodniu. Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: SpamAssassin identified this message as possible spam Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/confirm/freebsd-isp/be384de5be0d587ec617208781c3aead76fb417e PLEASE NOTE! If you would like to post freely to the list, please subscribe first. If you post from multiple addresses, you can subscribe each address and go into the options page and select 'no mail' for all but one address. This will allow you to post without delay in the future. Sorry for the hassle, but certain immature people made this necessary. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 14:50:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119DA106566C; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:50:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pgollucci@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56668FC2B; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:50:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so3928601qcs.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:x-enigmail-version:content-type; bh=nytDcmzMKZyfSI7vuge79swmh8U1yKrOkb4SJHFs9ew=; b=bnK+6dkKPPsFbmlSNzyv5a8Q5xi5F5gBr5DD+4KS1dmN+d2b3OpTaKtNQL6AxAQrro S4rnxzDekfuQHFlscm6/L/oRFk0eoj5Q/XtaDSTT+NgmVulzkNSAHDfdI9OnyXaBHGkX dtocT+vC1dsvw6k70ppt2JtQ24733d+TfnHa4PZOlgzPrZ5PtNM9bt1Hzf/QiD4GqkuP 0KOmny11yW+oBLzHLyo2Y3c7wLIMl0VAyYx5Zta4VjPFUXo0Z9idsblttq4bWxU4YfK1 oDFZGGfkHaXAqTnzT+GWMqBiasg3FtGfpNtq+o0wePpel/2H4D4W+w/sGcl1Gfcn3TeD d6Kg== Received: by 10.229.134.194 with SMTP id k2mr851949qct.125.1332773417247; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from philip.hq.rws (wsip-174-79-184-239.dc.dc.cox.net. [174.79.184.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j17sm30283659qaj.9.2012.03.26.07.50.15 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F708223.4060803@p6m7g8.com> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:50:11 +0000 From: "Philip M. Gollucci" Organization: P6M7G8 Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111029 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: questions@FreeBSD.org X-Enigmail-Version: undefined Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig8E80A1D254E6E3D78A7CAEFD" Cc: current@FreeBSD.org Subject: freebsd 9.0-release + zfs + mysqld(percona) = kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:50:22 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig8E80A1D254E6E3D78A7CAEFD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable /var/log/messages Mar 23 22:21:50 sabertooth kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone Mar 23 22:21:50 sabertooth kernel: pid 86697 (mysqld), uid 88, was killed: out of swap space how to repeat: $ mysql -ux < file.sql (~150GB) worth basically, it slows down continually until it dies. IF you (suspend) the process in time it recovers some, but eventually you have to suspend it every 1s for ~3 minutes. The load is ~10 at this point. I've looked at top, ps, iostat, zpool iostat, vmstat -z, vmstat -m and I don't see anything wonky. I can provide more info on request. system description: $ df zmysqlD 801G 658G 142G 82% /var/db/mysql/data zmysqlL 133G 26G 107G 20% /var/db/mysql/log its a 600GB innodb space, mysql has innodb_buffer_pool_size =3D 80GB about 1GB of data is MyISAM the rest is InnoDB The machine has 96GB of RAM $ cat /etc/fstab /dev/gpt/swap0 none swap sw 0 0 /dev/gpt/swap1 none swap sw 0 0 tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw 2 0 swapinfo -h will show %6 and %6 usage on the swap devices /tmp remains < 5% used $ grep maxswzone /boot/loader.conf kern.maxswzone=3D"67108864" ## double the default $ gpart show =3D> 34 286749421 da3 GPT (136G) 34 128 1 freebsd-boot (64k) 162 201326592 2 freebsd-swap (96G) 201326754 85422701 3 freebsd-zfs (40G) =3D> 34 286749421 da4 GPT (136G) 34 128 1 freebsd-boot (64k) 162 201326592 2 freebsd-swap (96G) 201326754 85422701 3 freebsd-zfs (40G) da[012] are SSDs, the rest are 15krpm $ zpool status pool: zmysqlD state: ONLINE scan: none requested config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM zmysqlD ONLINE 0 0 0 raidz2-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 da7 ONLINE 0 0 0 da8 ONLINE 0 0 0 da9 ONLINE 0 0 0 da10 ONLINE 0 0 0 da11 ONLINE 0 0 0 da12 ONLINE 0 0 0 da13 ONLINE 0 0 0 da14 ONLINE 0 0 0 logs da0 ONLINE 0 0 0 cache da2 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors pool: zmysqlL state: ONLINE scan: none requested config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM zmysqlL ONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 da5 ONLINE 0 0 0 da6 ONLINE 0 0 0 cache da1 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors pool: zroot state: ONLINE scan: none requested config: NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM zroot ONLINE 0 0 0 mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 da3p3 ONLINE 0 0 0 da4p3 ONLINE 0 0 0 --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1024D/DB9B8C1C B90B FBC3 A3A1 C71A 8E70 3F8C 75B8 8FFB DB9B 8C1C Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354 Member, Apache Software Foundation Committer, FreeBSD Foundation Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc. Director Operations, Ridecharge Inc. Work like you don't need the money, love like you'll never get hurt, and dance like nobody's watching. --------------enig8E80A1D254E6E3D78A7CAEFD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFPcIImdbiP+9ubjBwRArTUAJ9Ui2PEGq0BKIYIb5oZ03o4Gz1wxwCcChj2 x8hXjDSpox+q8isz+WJFCDs= =maYA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig8E80A1D254E6E3D78A7CAEFD-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 15:42:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53537106564A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:42:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy5-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy5.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 16B818FC18 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:42:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 5806 invoked by uid 0); 26 Mar 2012 15:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2012 15:42:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=8MmkwRGvUj/ThBpZPt5K+1mYwMTTiOg89z6puqK+wfE=; b=mwC3ZdJFIDQoMq0c7kI/btk/lv1QCplCjT5fWhxAwcsYR53yWDoF0sSdibLp0goknzUnxAGZZdA7U8oRseehBTOyMB0GvDFKYFZIigz1YEnYMiE0BeFdELaQidCwQy6K; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SCC3r-0007nv-RJ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:42:23 -0600 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:42:23 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 15:42:25 -0000 On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 07:21:51PM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote: > > Considering that FreeBS positions itself 'primrily' as a _server_ OS, > I would suggest that it is 'unlikely'. I suppose iXsystems and the PC-BSD project might be a place to send out feelers as well, being more interested in end-user stuff than the pretty server-sysadmin heavy crowd here. There are a lot of people in this community interested in more than just servers, though, so I don't see why the fact FreeBSD is good for servers should be an impediment to seeking out people with an interest in tablet ports. > > *I*, for one, would hope that porting to the 'Rasberry Pi' has higher > priority. So would I. If someone decided to tackle the Vivaldi platform, though, I wouldn't complain. > > Now, if "somebody" in the 'Vivaldi' community wants to gather up _all_ > the relevant 'technical data' for configuring/accessing/programming *ALL* > the included hardware, and -publish- it in one EASILY ACCESSIBLE place, > that would be a good start. This might be a start: http://opentablets.org/page/index.html/_/news/makeplaylive-sparknow-vivaldi-zenithink-c71-r13 > > If such a "somebody" were to _also_ provide 'funding' for a porting project, > that would undoubtedly move such a project to a high position on the 'to do' > list'. > > Otherwise, "Skippy", you, -YOURSELF-. will need to find a 'guru' with the > appropriate knowledge/skills *and* "enough interest' in the project to > tackle it. I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if there were people in the community with an interest in working on this project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to "find a 'guru'" to work on it. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 18:20:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E961065676 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:20:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu) Received: from dc.cis.okstate.edu (dc.cis.okstate.edu [139.78.103.93]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E217B8FC17 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:20:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dc.cis.okstate.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dc.cis.okstate.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2QIKaFt008532 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:20:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu) Message-Id: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8530.1332786036.1@dc.cis.okstate.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:20:36 -0500 From: Martin McCormick Subject: Remote System Builds X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:20:43 -0000 Is there yet any way to remotely rebuild a FreeBSD system? I have two FreeBSD systems on two remote campuses that presently run FreeBSD6.3. They need to be running FreeBSD9.0 and I don't really care how I get there as long as it can be done over the network. If we were physically there, I would put a CDROM in and blow them away since it is such a large jump. I can have staff members there install CDROM's that were remastered to use the serial console, but I am hoping that maybe we are moving past this sort of logistics. I just tried to unpack the 9.0 image using tar which has worked in the past to let one modify loader.conf but I got a bunch of errors this time about files that couldn't be created so maybe this is not the recommended headless installation technique any longer. Any ideas? Thank you very much Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK Systems Engineer OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 19:14:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 480521065677 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:14:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77D68FC22 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:14:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-96-229-186-65.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [96.229.186.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.3/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q2QIs6Up076271; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:54:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:54:06 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8CB1037A-9843-48E2-9F10-27FDC7721EE3@lafn.org> References: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> To: Martin McCormick X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Remote System Builds X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:14:34 -0000 On 26 March 2012, at 11:20, Martin McCormick wrote: > Is there yet any way to remotely rebuild a FreeBSD > system? I have two FreeBSD systems on two remote campuses that > presently run FreeBSD6.3. They need to be running FreeBSD9.0 and > I don't really care how I get there as long as it can be done > over the network. If we were physically there, I would put a > CDROM in and blow them away since it is such a large jump. >=20 > I can have staff members there install CDROM's that were > remastered to use the serial console, but I am hoping that maybe > we are moving past this sort of logistics. >=20 > I just tried to unpack the 9.0 image using tar which has > worked in the past to let one modify loader.conf but I got a > bunch of errors this time about files that couldn't be created > so maybe this is not the recommended headless installation > technique any longer. I am going to be facing the same issue in a few months. My experiences = with the serial console are that it is great for correcting small = issues, trying to use it for initial configuration is not going to be = real easy. I would like to be able to build a custom CD for that = specific machine that doesn't need any operator input. They just = install it and boot the machine. It would need to format the disk and do = the complete installation (base and uniquely configured ports etc.). Is = that possible?= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 19:18:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E847106566C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:18:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsam@passap.ru) Received: from forward12.mail.yandex.net (forward12.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:801::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F000F8FC15 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:18:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp11.mail.yandex.net (smtp11.mail.yandex.net [95.108.130.67]) by forward12.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 9984EC220B8; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:18:20 +0400 (MSK) Received: from smtp11.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp11.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 7A2277E033F; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:18:20 +0400 (MSK) Received: from 46.38.39.187.tel.ru (46.38.39.187.tel.ru [46.38.39.187]) by smtp11.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id IJwG4mxj-IKw4Nn3d; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:18:20 +0400 Message-ID: <4F70C0FB.1060208@passap.ru> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:18:19 +0400 From: Boris Samorodov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111114 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin McCormick References: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> In-Reply-To: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Remote System Builds X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:18:22 -0000 26.03.2012 22:20, Martin McCormick пишет: > Is there yet any way to remotely rebuild a FreeBSD > system? I have two FreeBSD systems on two remote campuses that > presently run FreeBSD6.3. They need to be running FreeBSD9.0 and > I don't really care how I get there as long as it can be done > over the network. If we were physically there, I would put a > CDROM in and blow them away since it is such a large jump. I used an USB stick with full system, sources (/usr/src) and compiled binary (/usr/obj). Since the system is booted from USB, I have full control via ssh session. > I can have staff members there install CDROM's that were > remastered to use the serial console, but I am hoping that maybe > we are moving past this sort of logistics. > > I just tried to unpack the 9.0 image using tar which has > worked in the past to let one modify loader.conf but I got a > bunch of errors this time about files that couldn't be created > so maybe this is not the recommended headless installation > technique any longer. > > Any ideas? HTH -- WBR, Boris Samorodov (bsam) FreeBSD Committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 19:21:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4F4106564A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:21:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu) Received: from x.it.okstate.edu (x.it.okstate.edu [139.78.2.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6788FC18 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:21:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dc.cis.okstate.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x.it.okstate.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2QJL8te040400 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:21:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu) Message-Id: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <40398.1332789668.1@dc.cis.okstate.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:21:08 -0500 From: Martin McCormick Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:21:14 -0000 There may be several people on this list who are blind, meaning no usable vision to see a screen. I definitely fit that description so I will gladly try to answer questions which breaks my usual practice here of asking beginner-level questions even though I have been using FreeBSD for almost ten years. The easiest and most economical interface for computer users who are blind is spoken speach. I am not talking about speech recognition where you speak to the computer and it does things, but speech synthesis where the computer runs an application to read what is on the screen back to the person using the system. One can learn to type and touch-typing was tought in schools for the blind for scores of years before computers ever even came on the scene. We pounded on typewriters and our poor suffering typing teachers were the feedback mechanisms that told us how we were doing. So, a person who is blind needs to know how to type. Almost every operating system has a screen reading program or several that one can install that reads the screen back to you. There is a good screen reader for the Macintosh which is included on every single Mac that runs OSX10.X. I like it and the Mac's do run a customized version of BSD unix. The screen reader for the Mac is called voiceover and you can activate it by Command-F5 and then Command-F5 again to turn it off. The only drawback to voiceover is that for those of us who do a lot of tinkering and compiling of source code on unix systems, the screen reader makes listening to the stream of consciousness almost useless because it resets itself each time new output is detected. There is also a lot of really neat things going on in Linux. We have Orca which is the GUI environment and some very good software speech synthesizers for both the GUI and the command line worlds. They tend to handle bursty output from compilers and log tailings better than voiceover but you find that both Mac and Linux screen readers shine in some things and don't do so well in others so there is no clear winner. Finally, there is the Windows world. Microsoft may be actually trying to improve their narrator application to where it is a serious screen reader, but up to now, there is one free screen reader that some people like to use plus several commercial applications that cost an arm and a leg and are always one upgrade away from being snuffed out and causing their owners much grief. None of these screen readers are perfect, but most computer users who are blind end up being reasonably happy with one of them. I personally like Linux and the Mac because there is no additional charge to install the screen readers and they generally won't let you down. There are also Braille displays which some people use but they are extremely costly. I mentioned the speech recognition systems. Many of those actually present problems for those who are blind because you need to train them on your speech and the feedback is graphical so a good old keyboard is still the best input device. So as not to get totally off topic, I haven't heard of any of the Linux screen readers being ported to FreeBSD. That could be a problem for some people and not an issue at all for others. Right now, I am typing on a Linux computer running a software speech engine and I am editing this message on a FreeBSD9.0 system via ssh and using vi on the actual message file. It works great. If that Raspberry Pie Linux system turns out to be able to support one of the Linux screen readers, we're talking about a talking terminal for less than 100 US Dollars. We'll just have to see what happens. Martin McCormick WB5AGZ Stillwater, OK Systems Engineer OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 19:22:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B14106567E for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:22:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olivares14031@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B133E8FC27 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:22:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iahk25 with SMTP id k25so11313692iah.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:22:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=3LYayBSFzlx9YqApf9euxsCw16VXUtkaqJuQnfaII6E=; b=KbRvFiO5K2FXy3xP1pBFh17/ThTaSJo/cLv9Gc8kMcRaKnX2WWr1jRLNBNPn6+86fE 1guMsP6IU8NUpUojskT1TVsTeOSjJhZ1WKYoA1K7DP037A3+PZ/M3bE+TEn/Jfy0C15L RSj2Rod0pUlpqN/c3I7rZbAb5lU4vC/RsFcSUrX8x3HZQklbUpjxO0nqs1sjmggNt4sC UoXnE/rGWkXh9dxJJt+2sTADRlmL/Nsj0XWs2I55gTF9HZ8D0YfEnsmcpEkz5Rnz1EJ3 WKx6Qsjkr3tMAdVu0SrMTJvZ6pV6InUF5qgLJr5gg9TRYf1DJBMg8zI4bfqBkm8COaX0 Z/6w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.184.166 with SMTP id ev6mr6630883igc.63.1332789769397; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.85.134 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:22:49 -0500 Message-ID: From: Antonio Olivares To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: source files needed to compile the Handbook in ps/pdf format X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:22:50 -0000 Dear folks, Several times when updating FreeBSD when I installed documentation, I would get the new versions of handbook and tex/pdftex/pdflatex ran in the background updating the Handbook. I nuked the documentation part and I no longer see this. I also added texlive[some from DVD and some from TexLive-FreeBSD-google code by Romain Tartiere]. I am also using kerTeX, http://www.kergis.com/en/kertex.html which is a small & portable TeX/LaTeX distribution. An announcement was made a while ago about kertex. Why am I asking? I want to see if the kertex packages are able to compile the FreeBSD documentation or not? I know in advance that texlive should do it, but I know that FreeBSD still clings on to TeTeX. TeXLive is big and all the reasons out in the sun I have heard, FreeBSD and Slackware(Linux) still use teTeX. I wonder what would be needed for kertex to correctly compile and produce the FreeBSD Handbook and FreeBSD FAQ. If there are source files somewhere so I can try the compilation and see what is needed, I would appreciate it. I have tried several books, and it has done them, but after some work hunting down some style files and putting them in the working directory, (TIA)Thanks in Advance Antonio From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 19:37:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2746106566C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:37:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7575B8FC19 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:37:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pps.filterd (ltcfislmsgpa01 [127.0.0.1]) by ltcfislmsgpa01.fnfis.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q2QJQ5Kt004428; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:37:27 -0500 Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.15]) by ltcfislmsgpa01.fnfis.com with ESMTP id 13txk003g0-9 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:37:27 -0500 Received: from dtwin (10.14.152.15) by smtp.fisglobal.com (10.132.206.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:37:14 -0500 From: Devin Teske To: "'Doug Hardie'" , "'Martin McCormick'" References: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> <8CB1037A-9843-48E2-9F10-27FDC7721EE3@lafn.org> In-Reply-To: <8CB1037A-9843-48E2-9F10-27FDC7721EE3@lafn.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:37:14 -0700 Message-ID: <014501cd0b87$d9452410$8bcf6c30$@fisglobal.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQG8RovjLr2TSxqr3BIX9KMb1unSlQFO0NPXlpQGunA= Content-Language: en-us X-Originating-IP: [10.14.152.15] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7498, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-03-26_04:2012-03-26, 2012-03-26, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: Remote System Builds X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:37:41 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > questions@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Doug Hardie > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:54 AM > To: Martin McCormick > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Remote System Builds > > > On 26 March 2012, at 11:20, Martin McCormick wrote: > > > Is there yet any way to remotely rebuild a FreeBSD > > system? I have two FreeBSD systems on two remote campuses that > > presently run FreeBSD6.3. They need to be running FreeBSD9.0 and > > I don't really care how I get there as long as it can be done > > over the network. If we were physically there, I would put a > > CDROM in and blow them away since it is such a large jump. > > > > I can have staff members there install CDROM's that were > > remastered to use the serial console, but I am hoping that maybe > > we are moving past this sort of logistics. > > > > I just tried to unpack the 9.0 image using tar which has > > worked in the past to let one modify loader.conf but I got a > > bunch of errors this time about files that couldn't be created > > so maybe this is not the recommended headless installation > > technique any longer. > > I am going to be facing the same issue in a few months. My experiences with the > serial console are that it is great for correcting small issues, trying to use it for > initial configuration is not going to be real easy. I would like to be able to build a > custom CD for that specific machine that doesn't need any operator input. They > just install it and boot the machine. It would need to format the disk and do the > complete installation (base and uniquely configured ports etc.). Is that > possible? Our company is facing a jump from FreeBSD-4.11 to FreeBSD-8.1 later this year (in a few months). The challenge is recognized as: 1. Upgrade 3,000+ systems in a matter of 60-90 days. 2. Many of those systems need to be upgraded remotely where no technical staff exists (e.g. India, Philippines, Canada, etc.) 3. The remote upgrade must be done via SSH and NFS 4. Machines being upgraded must reboot and come back onto the network without local technical assistance The technique that I developed to accomplish this is a shell script weighing in at [currently] 1954 lines of code. In addition to the 1954 lines of code, there are another 631 lines of code dedicated to specific migrations that have to be performed specific to (say) jumping from 4.11 to 8.1 (e.g., you should remove the "nodev" option from your NFS mounts in /etc/fstab, among other things). On top of THAT, there's another 8778 lines of code dedicated to "cruft removal" (lists of files/directories that are unique to either the source-binary distro or the destination-binary distro; depending on the direction of migration). I will be releasing the full script soon (in a couple weeks) and even though it's not specifically targeted to your migration path (6.3 to 9.0), it can be learning-tool to illustrate exactly HOW you can go about making that binary migration a reality. Fortunately, it's very easy for me to provide explicit instructions on how exactly we jump from 4.11 to 8.1, or 8.1 back to 4.11, or even from 8.1 i386 to 8.1 amd64 (and back) ... the script that I've written takes a "-nv" syntax which means "don't actually do anything, but show me the explicit commands that I can execute by-hand to migrate from one OS to the next as an in-place migration" which has the following output: NOTE: The output below is a sample migration from 4.11 to 8.1-amd64 WARNING: This is not intended to be a full solution provided to the OP but rather a conversation-starter that should illustrate not only how HARD and/or DIFFICULT it is to do what the OP asked, but also to show how it IS POSSIBLE to achieve. WARNING: Also, it's worth noting that this procedure will NOT work to jump to "9.x" because the binary distribution sets from 9.0 and higher are in a different format. You can work around this by adjusting for this fact -- replacing syntax such as "cat base/base.?? | tar ..." to simply "cat base.txz | tar ..." (accounting for the new monolithic distribution-sets in 9.0 and higher). === BEGIN OUTPUT OF OUR BINARY MIGRATION SCRIPT BELOW === Rebuild / with repository 8.1-RELEASE-amd64 TEST-ONLY! No actions will be performed. #################### Source 8.1-RELEASE-amd64 specific config file . "./etc/8.1-RELEASE-amd64.conf" #################### Run 8.1-RELEASE-amd64 specific pre_install pre_install # Preflight sanity check (check release) # Migration from 4.11-STABLE to 8.1-RELEASE-amd64 allowed # Prevent disappearance of tar(1) rm -Rfv /var/db/pkg/tar-1.5 # Move `/usr/local/etc/rc.d' to `/usr/local/etc/rc.d.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08' mv -v /usr/local/etc/rc.d /usr/local/etc/rc.d.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08 mkdir -pv /usr/local/etc/rc.d chmod -v 0755 /usr/local/etc/rc.d chown -v root:wheel /usr/local/etc/rc.d #################### Find/Remove core-dumps to free-up disk space find -x "/" -maxdepth 2 -name '*.core' -type f | xargs rm -fv #################### Back up /etc to /etc.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08 cp -RPpfv /etc /etc.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08 #################### Uninstall 289 packages... pkg_delete -fav #################### Prepare /oldbase directory mkdir -pv /oldbase cp -pfv ./crunch/rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/rebuild_crunch4 ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/cat ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/chmod ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/cp ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/date ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/ln ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/ls ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/mkdir ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/mv ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/rm ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/sh ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/sleep ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/awk ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/chflags ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/chpass ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/chsh ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/env ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/find ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/sed ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/stat ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/xargs ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/dialog ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/gzip ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/tar ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/reboot ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/chown ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/chroot ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/mtree ln -sfv rebuild_crunch4 /oldbase/pwd_mkdb #################### Sandbox myself into /oldbase # For csh(1) or tcsh(1): # setenv SHELL "/oldbase/sh" # setenv PATH "/oldbase" # rehash # For sh(1) or bash(1): # export SHELL="/oldbase/sh" # export PATH="/oldbase" # hash -r #################### Perform final sanity checks # Make sure /oldbase exists # Make sure /oldbase is a directory # Make sure $SHELL exists within /oldbase # Make sure awk exists within /oldbase # Make sure cat exists within /oldbase # Make sure chflags exists within /oldbase # Make sure chmod exists within /oldbase # Make sure chown exists within /oldbase # Make sure chpass exists within /oldbase # Make sure chroot exists within /oldbase # Make sure chsh exists within /oldbase # Make sure cp exists within /oldbase # Make sure date exists within /oldbase # Make sure dialog exists within /oldbase # Make sure env exists within /oldbase # Make sure find exists within /oldbase # Make sure gzip exists within /oldbase # Make sure ln exists within /oldbase # Make sure ls exists within /oldbase # Make sure mkdir exists within /oldbase # Make sure mtree exists within /oldbase # Make sure mv exists within /oldbase # Make sure pwd_mkdb exists within /oldbase # Make sure reboot exists within /oldbase # Make sure rm exists within /oldbase # Make sure sed exists within /oldbase # Make sure sh exists within /oldbase # Make sure sleep exists within /oldbase # Make sure stat exists within /oldbase # Make sure tar exists within /oldbase # Make sure xargs exists within /oldbase #################### Clear distribution schg flag: base/base cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/base/base.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: base/base cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/base/base.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" --exclude etc/crontab --exclude etc/group --exclude etc/sysctl.conf --exclude etc/master.passwd --exclude etc/passwd --exclude etc/spwd.db --exclude etc/pwd.db --exclude etc/ssh/sshd_config --exclude boot/loader.conf #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): base/base mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/base/base.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: kernels/fis cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/kernels/fis.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: kernels/fis cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/kernels/fis.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): kernels/fis mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/kernels/fis.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: local/local cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/local/local.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: local/local cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/local/local.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): local/local mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/local/local.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: perl/perl cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/perl/perl.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: perl/perl cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/perl/perl.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): perl/perl mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/perl/perl.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: lib32/lib32 cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/lib32/lib32.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: lib32/lib32 cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/lib32/lib32.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): lib32/lib32 mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/lib32/lib32.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: doc/doc cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/doc/doc.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: doc/doc cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/doc/doc.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): doc/doc mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/doc/doc.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: games/games cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/games/games.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: games/games cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/games/games.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): games/games mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/games/games.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: manpages/manpages cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/manpages/manpages.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: manpages/manpages cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/manpages/manpages.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): manpages/manpages mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/manpages/manpages.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: proflibs/proflibs cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/proflibs/proflibs.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: proflibs/proflibs cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/proflibs/proflibs.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): proflibs/proflibs mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/proflibs/proflibs.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: dict/dict cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/dict/dict.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: dict/dict cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/dict/dict.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): dict/dict mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/dict/dict.mtree -p / #################### Clear distribution schg flag: info/info cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/info/info.?? | tar tzf - | sed -e "s:^/::;s:^\(\./\)\{0,1\}:/:" | xargs chflags noschg #################### Unpack distribution contents: info/info cat "./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64"/info/info.?? | tar --unlink -xzpvf - -C "/" #################### Employ distribution mtree(8): info/info mtree -eU -f ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/info/info.mtree -p / #################### Run final mtree commands... mtree -eU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.root.dist -p / mtree -eU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist -p /var mtree -eU -f /etc/mtree/BSD.usr.dist -p /usr #################### Copy post-installation scripts... mkdir -p /dist cp -RPpfv ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/druid /dist/ cp -RPpfv ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/run_once /dist/ cp -RPpfv ./../repos/8.1-RELEASE-amd64/sys_custom /dist/ find "/dist/sys_custom" -type d -name CVS -exec rm -Rfv '{}' ';' find "/dist/sys_custom" -type f -name .keep -exec rm -fv '{}' ';' #################### Make-way for sys_custom items... # Pre-unlink destination files rm -f "/usr/local/sbin/host-setup" #################### Install sys_custom items... env SHELL=/oldbase/sh PATH=/oldbase chroot "/" /oldbase/sh /dist/druid/syscustom #################### Prepare legacy pwd_mkdb(8) for run_once... cp -fv /usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb /usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb.xnew ln -sfv /oldbase/pwd_mkdb /usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb #################### Check dhclient.conf(5) configuration... # dhclient.conf(5) not configured (skip) #################### Execute post-installation scripts... env SHELL=/oldbase/sh PATH=/oldbase chroot "/" /oldbase/sh /dist/druid/run_once #################### Run 8.1-RELEASE-amd64 specific post_install post_install # Remove `nodev' option from fstab(5) NFS mounts cp -pf /etc/fstab /etc/fstab.nodev.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08 awk ' { if ( $0 !~ /^[[:space:]]*#/ && ( $3 == "nfs" ) ) { sub(/^nodev$/, "none", $4) sub(/^nodev,/, "", $4) sub(/,nodev,/, ",", $4) sub(/,nodev$/, "", $4) } print }' "/etc/fstab.nodev.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08" > "/etc/fstab" # Change `null' fstype in fstab(5) to `nullfs' cp -pf /etc/fstab /etc/fstab.null.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08 awk ' { if ( $0 !~ /^[[:space:]]*#/ && ( $3 == "null" ) ) { $3 = "nullfs" } print }' "/etc/fstab.null.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08" > "/etc/fstab" # Remove old files/directories: # See `./etc/REMOVE_LIST-8.1' for a full listing # Move `/usr/local/etc/xdm' to `/usr/local/etc/xdm.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08' mv -v /usr/local/etc/xdm /usr/local/etc/xdm.xbak-2012-03-26.12:32:08 #################### Clean up... rm -Rfv /dist mv -fv /usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb.xnew /usr/sbin/pwd_mkdb #################### End === END OUTPUT OF OUR BINARY MIGRATION SCRIPT BELOW === As you'll notice from the above output, we also make use of a custom "rebuild_crunch" binary which allows us to sandbox ourself into a directory containing a 1.2MB executable of statically-compiled utilities (crunched together with crunchgen(8)) during the replacement of the base (running) system. NOTE: It's very important that -- unless you understand fully the concepts of the above commands -- that you NOT attempt this procedure as there are MANY gotchas in the twists-and-turns that we use to upgrade binary systems. For example, it's not shown above all that the code does in order to prevent the box from hanging during the next boot. Cheers, and happy digesting. As always, feel free to ask any questions. I look forward to releasing this feature in a future revision of the "FreeBSD Druid" available on druidbsd.sf.net. It really is a gem. It provides no less than 270 different ways to perform the binary migration (including booting from the Druid and rebuilding a non-bootable system). -- Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 21:32:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178831065672 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:32:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexus@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BB78FC18 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wern13 with SMTP id n13so5970135wer.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:32:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=3VCiyXdLnRrRgiemmZP7RvorVz8qyOBFSdTzk0BTFEU=; b=f1OIf7bTXJIl7s5GKbLcBbTtVcz5Y8KNWnVnDK0xdQceqMBOk0PTTAAk9eineSNuZq 9Dy7Slw6jmQp7zaaWsHWEoPivhvk+E6KpP9erSyp6592OJR0JbdwnUQTQppXx3+CtP+U yScn3xsOeWbVWeJDoI0cP2MkfyTUTWWqq5jes2XFmJdaeYg8X5PzBN/beiQnPojgVSJs I1rW8lg3/chIk6fYWTgJ+vI95qDkCNYihrXIO0H0/r0Dk7OCuODOtvRRSdkx/EZfzkvt 2jgFrV6PVgd+4FHdFx/dot5Q0iUtiKjx/6xJJxzScCoBryCD5SYAGMGC2LM8fZXra1Gt Mh5Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.88.199 with SMTP id bi7mr21859866wib.12.1332797561311; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.11.7 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:32:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120111125608.0f7e8656@farka.eu> References: <4F0C0E3D.7010906@nagual.nl> <4F0C4BF6.6030401@my.gd> <4F0C63E6.6020604@my.gd> <20120111125608.0f7e8656@farka.eu> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:32:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: alexus To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: FreeBSD9 + PHP X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:32:43 -0000 I appreciate everyone's input on this matter and the bottom line is: mod_php and/or php-fpm should be created as a _separate_package_ for users who have no need for it, should _NOT_ install it in fact if this package exists or not it shouldn't even concern you (since you not using it) for users who finds it useful then can go ahead and install it using pkg_add I don't understand why so much fuss about that at the first place? a lot of other distributions are doing that way and it's pretty much "win win" for everyone, at least I didn't see anyone complaining I posted this message to ports@ and to maintenances for these packages, hopefully they'll do as time permits. -- http://alexus.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 21:52:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA0E1065673 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:52:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC8B8FC0A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:52:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBDABD.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.218.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q2QLqIDl070543; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:52:18 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2QLq4E3005890; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:52:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2QLpqrX007901; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:51:58 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201203262151.q2QLpqrX007901@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Martin McCormick From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:21:08 CDT." <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:51:52 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:52:25 -0000 Martin McCormick wrote: > There may be several people on this list who are blind, > meaning no usable vision to see a screen. I definitely fit that > description so I will gladly try to answer questions which ... Hi Martin, cc questions@ Might you be prepared to write a page for the FreeBSD handbook ? http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html It could go under "V. Appendices" ? Having someone who is blind as author of such a page would make it more authoritative & useful for other blind people I assume. I guess you could start by correlate previous posting on this thread, + add your knowledge, keeping text short & linking to tools & equipment manufacturers ? (& inc. a URL to the Knoppix blind version) There's been a few people who have asked me over the years, & I've never really known where to point them. PS A near blind person in Germany told me a decade or more back: - each country has a different Braille !? - one line display systems in Germany are extremely expensive. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 21:58:33 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200F81065670 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:58:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8060B8FC0C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:58:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:fa1e:dfff:feda:c0bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2QLwR4m009155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:58:28 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q2QLwR4m009155 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q2QLwR4m009155; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4F70E67B.6050204@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:58:19 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> In-Reply-To: <201203261820.q2QIKaFt008532@dc.cis.okstate.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigB4E380FA0E792B76AF5D09E7" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: Remote System Builds X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:58:33 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigB4E380FA0E792B76AF5D09E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 26/03/2012 19:20, Martin McCormick wrote: > I just tried to unpack the 9.0 image using tar which has > worked in the past to let one modify loader.conf but I got a > bunch of errors this time about files that couldn't be created > so maybe this is not the recommended headless installation > technique any longer. To create a custom install CD? You might find it better to build your =2Eiso or memstick images from the system sources. See release(7). The trick seems to be to make the 'system' target of the /usr/src/release/Makefile which will install the system into a chroot. You should then be able to edit files under that chroot. Then just 'make release.iso' or 'make memstick' to create an installer image. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigB4E380FA0E792B76AF5D09E7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk9w5oMACgkQ8Mjk52CukIz07gCgk4kNW7/I+LFRTX2BTC+BrDnK iTIAnRLgz6SZaCCP/6HnsPTO8lrmMfxP =PuPE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigB4E380FA0E792B76AF5D09E7-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 22:13:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5EC51065675 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:13:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 792A98FC24 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:13:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9181E302; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:12:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2QMCwOt003610; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:12:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:12:58 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Martin McCormick Message-Id: <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:13:04 -0000 On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:21:08 -0500, Martin McCormick wrote: > The easiest and most economical interface for computer > users who are blind is spoken speach. That's correct. However, unlike a Braille readout which gives tactile information (through the reader's hands), synthetic voice cannot easily accomodate to the reader's habits and reading speed. "Scanning text" is not possible as the generated voiced text is played in "linear time", which means you cannot easily skip forward and backward, re-read a certain passage, and you basically do not come down to the "letter level", you only have a "word level". While this has benefits in "unconcentrated reading" (e. g. reading an article or literature", it can be problematic with scientific or technical text where a (healthy) reader would let his eyes "jump" within the text stream. > One can learn to type and touch-typing was tought in > schools for the blind for scores of years before computers ever > even came on the scene. I also learned typewriting (mandatory!) in school, and believe it or not, it comes handy every time I have to deal with a computer. :-) > We pounded on typewriters and our > poor suffering typing teachers were the feedback mechanisms that > told us how we were doing. So, a person who is blind needs to > know how to type. A good keyboard can help here. Keep in mind that a keyboard, being a means of input, provides tactile feedback as output. So without any visual confirmation you can detect when you made a typing error, activating a "motor program" to correct it on the fly. At this point, I typically recommend using an IBM Model M keyboard. But the Sun USB Type 7 is also good, as it provides programmable keys for volume control, application interaction and Braille readout control. (I use those keys primarily for dealing with the window manager - no need to use the eyes!) > None of these screen readers are perfect, but most > computer users who are blind end up being reasonably happy with > one of them. Especially in combination with web browsers, they are prone to fail. Where there's no text (as content) in a web page, there's nothing to read to the user. The use of the HTML tags alt= and longdesc= is a long forgotten art, and when "Flash" enters the scene to replace few lines of HTML (as for links or simple text), there's no easy way to determine _what_ currently is on the screen. > There are also Braille displays which some people use > but they are extremely costly. Sadly, that is correct. In my opinion this is because they are a niche market. When purchasing one, you have to pay attention to if it can capture "normal text screen" content. How is it attached to the computer? Does it require proprietary drivers? How long can it be used before an OS revision breaks the drivers? Those Braille readouts can be placed infront of the keyboard, the primary means of input. Reading and writing isn't far away from each other (finger travelling distance). Classic Braille readouts didn't seem to require any driver. I've seen such devices in the past. A slider on the side simply defined the row of text which was then displayed on the readout - one out of 25. I think it was plugged into the VGA chain (PC -> readout -> screen), but I'm not that familiar with this technology; I've seen it on a DOS PC. However, as FreeBSD's default screen mode is 80x25 text mode, it should be possible to use such a device. Maybe it's possible to get a used one for cheap... > I mentioned the speech recognition systems. Many of > those actually present problems for those who are blind because > you need to train them on your speech and the feedback is > graphical so a good old keyboard is still the best input device. Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a Braille output. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 22:50:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E591065670 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:50:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD99B8FC0A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:50:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 26 Mar 2012 18:50:07 -0400 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BKI06964; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:50:06 -0400 Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 26 Mar 2012 18:50:06 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20336.62110.137137.843856@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:50:06 -0400 To: Polytropon In-Reply-To: <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Cc: Martin McCormick , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:50:08 -0000 Polytropon writes: > Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the > system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning > curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a > Braille output. In the case of speech recognition, that's a curve many might be willing to travel if they had reason to believe it was effort wisely invested. There are a couple of ports that cleim to do speech recognition. Does anyone have experience with them? Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 23:07:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2E3106564A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:07:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991728FC14 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:07:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 52D3E5C22 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 09:21:00 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 09:07:25 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:07:33 -0000 On 03/27/12 01:42, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 07:21:51PM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote: >> Considering that FreeBS positions itself 'primrily' as a _server_ OS, >> I would suggest that it is 'unlikely'. > I suppose iXsystems and the PC-BSD project might be a place to send out > feelers as well, being more interested in end-user stuff than the pretty > server-sysadmin heavy crowd here. There are a lot of people in this > community interested in more than just servers, though, so I don't see > why the fact FreeBSD is good for servers should be an impediment to > seeking out people with an interest in tablet ports. > > >> *I*, for one, would hope that porting to the 'Rasberry Pi' has higher >> priority. > So would I. If someone decided to tackle the Vivaldi platform, though, I > wouldn't complain. > > >> Now, if "somebody" in the 'Vivaldi' community wants to gather up _all_ >> the relevant 'technical data' for configuring/accessing/programming *ALL* >> the included hardware, and -publish- it in one EASILY ACCESSIBLE place, >> that would be a good start. > This might be a start: > > http://opentablets.org/page/index.html/_/news/makeplaylive-sparknow-vivaldi-zenithink-c71-r13 > > >> If such a "somebody" were to _also_ provide 'funding' for a porting project, >> that would undoubtedly move such a project to a high position on the 'to do' >> list'. >> >> Otherwise, "Skippy", you, -YOURSELF-. will need to find a 'guru' with the >> appropriate knowledge/skills *and* "enough interest' in the project to >> tackle it. > I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if > there were people in the community with an interest in working on this > project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to > "find a 'guru'" to work on it. Actually I think the point of the email was to prop up the member numbers on the site. The platform itself is just an ordinary aPad which can be hacked. As for the open source community interest, well it already runs linux natively- android- so not entirely sure what the fuss is about (might explain the population there). If anyone was interested in porting FreeBSD to tablets there are plenty of dev kits out there to play with; and if the cost is excessive then grab an aPad off eBay for $50. To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and Android use. Might be interesting... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 26 23:29:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08601106564A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:29:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy8-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy8.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B75418FC12 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:29:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 6783 invoked by uid 0); 26 Mar 2012 23:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy8.bluehost.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2012 23:29:22 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=0zc8f+aOL/1f54NDqUn2jd2tyIAMuUDBbKfwlixRG3U=; b=C3bfvenuMxDpHG44lIpMAcOObKE1keNNy62c1YwNCQgpUJ0f3WJ1KIBWedpMxcpEz2LamSAGXwXbzxdctYkAj+xpml3sTZbU7jhUyMN9aUQrNZChMAS6u3XSuo0IJsNC; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SCJLl-0005nI-P0 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:29:21 -0600 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:29:21 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120326232921.GA11938@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:29:23 -0000 On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:07:25AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: > On 03/27/12 01:42, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > >I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if > >there were people in the community with an interest in working on this > >project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to > >"find a 'guru'" to work on it. > > Actually I think the point of the email was to prop up the member > numbers on the site. The platform itself is just an ordinary aPad > which can be hacked. As for the open source community interest, well > it already runs linux natively- android- so not entirely sure what > the fuss is about (might explain the population there). Android is not the same as a full-featured Unix-like OS. It's a miserably underpowered half-measure, whose only redeeming feature is that it's not Apple iOS or MS WP7. There's a bit of a difference, there. . . . not that I much care about tablets per se, right now, though it would be nice if I could get a ThinkPad X-series tablet-laptop working with FreeBSD. I just wouldn't equate Android with a general-purpose Unix-like OS, even if that OS uses a Linux kernel and gets most of the userland subtly wrong. > > If anyone was interested in porting FreeBSD to tablets there are > plenty of dev kits out there to play with; and if the cost is > excessive then grab an aPad off eBay for $50. I'm not sure how that disputes what I said. > > To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to > probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low > memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and > Android use. Might be interesting... Yeah, there could be some real challenges there. The question is whether someone with the wherewithal to do the work would find the challenge attractive. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 00:10:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739AA106566C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:10:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219388FC12 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:10:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42B685C22 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:24:28 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F71058D.2010203@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:10:53 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120326232921.GA11938@hemlock.hydra> In-Reply-To: <20120326232921.GA11938@hemlock.hydra> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:10:55 -0000 On 03/27/12 09:29, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:07:25AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: >> On 03/27/12 01:42, Chad Perrin wrote: >>> I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if >>> there were people in the community with an interest in working on this >>> project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to >>> "find a 'guru'" to work on it. >> Actually I think the point of the email was to prop up the member >> numbers on the site. The platform itself is just an ordinary aPad >> which can be hacked. As for the open source community interest, well >> it already runs linux natively- android- so not entirely sure what >> the fuss is about (might explain the population there). > Android is not the same as a full-featured Unix-like OS. It's a > miserably underpowered half-measure, whose only redeeming feature is that > it's not Apple iOS or MS WP7. There's a bit of a difference, there. > > . . . not that I much care about tablets per se, right now, though it > would be nice if I could get a ThinkPad X-series tablet-laptop working > with FreeBSD. I just wouldn't equate Android with a general-purpose > Unix-like OS, even if that OS uses a Linux kernel and gets most of the > userland subtly wrong. LOL. Thats my issue exactly, but its handy for a smartphone... It does make me wonder what a FBSD version of a similar appliance would be like? > > >> If anyone was interested in porting FreeBSD to tablets there are >> plenty of dev kits out there to play with; and if the cost is >> excessive then grab an aPad off eBay for $50. > I'm not sure how that disputes what I said. It wasn't. More to dispute what the OP said actually :) > > >> To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to >> probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low >> memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and >> Android use. Might be interesting... > Yeah, there could be some real challenges there. The question is whether > someone with the wherewithal to do the work would find the challenge > attractive. > I would... time is the issue though. This is a long term goal. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 01:28:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D14106566C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:28:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5DC8FC08 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:28:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 27EE15C22; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:42:25 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chuck Swiger References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:28:52 -0000 On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote: > On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote: >> To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and Android use. > iOS uses a descendant of the Display PostScript WindowServer from NEXTSTEP, although the locals have switched over to Core Graphics with Quartz as the 2D compositing engine [1], along with OpenGL ES for 3D. Interesting... Android would be using something else obviously FOSS. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 02:32:32 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6013F106564A; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 02:32:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pgollucci@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1F3C8FC0A; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 02:32:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qao25 with SMTP id 25so2794276qao.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:32:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type; bh=//mcH9VPSNAWrCDfJfAaw5HPTracc11XLO1MQBtwj8c=; b=EVTVXVgAtg5KO/MH3Ie+Tauf3fIXs0O9ffboiz7Fd+siSZ7dGR3CTqbUy1kt9gMc82 zw9005pnMfFJw7WJ8oj1iDhNguVWsQ731+eVGjQys/KT4cP2Os7G4nto0/1PMwAS1FU3 z8b1HW0TBUaiJwgljwYB5dTZHeYZsM9exV51WqT40aeTCdAOLkqfE4IdzvruNz6ykuPp AMHfPIf6g0j+ByIM+G75azRpa4LDxPRuPYhuwRu/Rd1PoCpYWhgxhJscfXog+Ma3NRRC sSNnas34pugIeby2XZCXfg5i67IQbUdkj4XtihCDFICGjVHs+HDazcWaHkXxQ1pyo1Fv j8Ew== Received: by 10.224.218.195 with SMTP id hr3mr30526561qab.26.1332815551484; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:32:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from philip.hq.rws (wsip-174-79-184-239.dc.dc.cox.net. [174.79.184.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 1sm33304848qac.3.2012.03.26.19.32.29 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:32:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F7126BA.1000202@p6m7g8.com> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 02:32:26 +0000 From: "Philip M. Gollucci" Organization: P6M7G8 Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111029 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Philip M. Gollucci" References: <4F708223.4060803@p6m7g8.com> In-Reply-To: <4F708223.4060803@p6m7g8.com> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigC256B7493D0030294755CCCD" Cc: questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd 9.0-release + zfs + mysqld(percona) = kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 02:32:32 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigC256B7493D0030294755CCCD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some other tuning updates $ zfs set zfs:zfs_nocacheflush =3D 1 $ sysctl vfs.zfs.prefetch_disable=3D1 $ cat /etc/my.cnf skip-innodb-doublewrite innodb_flush_log_at_trx_commit=3D2 $ zfs set primarycache=3Dmetadata zmysqlD $ zfs set atime=3Doff zmysqlD $ zfs set recordsize=3D16k zmysqlD but not on zmysqlL my next plan is to turn off tmpfs and use ZVOL swaps then to simply use just zroot/tmp as a normal dir. after that I'll drastically increase maxswzone. still hoping someone has already done this. On 03/26/12 14:50, Philip M. Gollucci wrote: > /var/log/messages > Mar 23 22:21:50 sabertooth kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase > kern.maxswzone > Mar 23 22:21:50 sabertooth kernel: pid 86697 (mysqld), uid 88, was > killed: out of swap space >=20 > how to repeat: > $ mysql -ux < file.sql (~150GB) worth >=20 > basically, it slows down continually until it dies. IF you (suspend) > the process in time it recovers some, but eventually you have to suspen= d > it every 1s for ~3 minutes. The load is ~10 at this point. >=20 > I've looked at top, ps, iostat, zpool iostat, vmstat -z, vmstat -m > and I don't see anything wonky. I can provide more info on request. >=20 > system description: >=20 > $ df > zmysqlD 801G 658G 142G 82% /var/db/mysql/data > zmysqlL 133G 26G 107G 20% /var/db/mysql/log >=20 > its a 600GB innodb space, mysql has > innodb_buffer_pool_size =3D 80GB > about 1GB of data is MyISAM the rest is InnoDB >=20 > The machine has 96GB of RAM >=20 > $ cat /etc/fstab > /dev/gpt/swap0 none swap sw 0 0 > /dev/gpt/swap1 none swap sw 0 0 >=20 > tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw 2 0 >=20 > swapinfo -h will show %6 and %6 usage on the swap devices > /tmp remains < 5% used >=20 > $ grep maxswzone /boot/loader.conf > kern.maxswzone=3D"67108864" ## double the default >=20 > $ gpart show > =3D> 34 286749421 da3 GPT (136G) > 34 128 1 freebsd-boot (64k) > 162 201326592 2 freebsd-swap (96G) > 201326754 85422701 3 freebsd-zfs (40G) >=20 > =3D> 34 286749421 da4 GPT (136G) > 34 128 1 freebsd-boot (64k) > 162 201326592 2 freebsd-swap (96G) > 201326754 85422701 3 freebsd-zfs (40G) >=20 > da[012] are SSDs, the rest are 15krpm >=20 > $ zpool status > pool: zmysqlD > state: ONLINE > scan: none requested > config: >=20 > NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM > zmysqlD ONLINE 0 0 0 > raidz2-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da7 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da8 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da9 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da10 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da11 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da12 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da13 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da14 ONLINE 0 0 0 > logs > da0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > cache > da2 ONLINE 0 0 0 >=20 > errors: No known data errors >=20 > pool: zmysqlL > state: ONLINE > scan: none requested > config: >=20 > NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM > zmysqlL ONLINE 0 0 0 > mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da5 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da6 ONLINE 0 0 0 > cache > da1 ONLINE 0 0 0 >=20 > errors: No known data errors >=20 > pool: zroot > state: ONLINE > scan: none requested > config: >=20 > NAME STATE READ WRITE CKSUM > zroot ONLINE 0 0 0 > mirror-0 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da3p3 ONLINE 0 0 0 > da4p3 ONLINE 0 0 0 >=20 >=20 >=20 --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1024D/DB9B8C1C B90B FBC3 A3A1 C71A 8E70 3F8C 75B8 8FFB DB9B 8C1C Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354 Member, Apache Software Foundation Committer, FreeBSD Foundation Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc. Director Operations, Ridecharge Inc. Work like you don't need the money, love like you'll never get hurt, and dance like nobody's watching. --------------enigC256B7493D0030294755CCCD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFPcSa8dbiP+9ubjBwRAgn+AJ467lTaFaaQs9OaV3fJnb1i25+1BACcCVh4 b8MyZzmS7/aGS8Zdh9+sHA8= =knaH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigC256B7493D0030294755CCCD-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 08:53:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86A11065674 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:53:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from van-trung.truong@college-de-france.fr) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462958FC15 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:53:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SCRpd-0004Oz-FP for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:32:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:32:45 -0700 (PDT) From: vttfreebsd To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1332837165469-5597254.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <44limtpego.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> References: <201203131413.41392.jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk> <44y5r177mm.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> <44haxp75jo.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> <201203202256.12788.jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk> <44pqc564oo.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> <44limtpego.fsf@lowell-desk.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Problem compiling emulators/virtualbox-ose-kmod 4.1.8_2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:53:47 -0000 Hi, I have the same error with virtualbox-ose-kmod 4.1.10 but only with FreeBSD 8.0 and 8.0-p2. With FreeBSD 8.2, no problem. Hope this help you for investigating this "bug" since I need it working on FreeBSD 8.0. Regards -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/Problem-compiling-emulators-virtualbox-ose-kmod-4-1-8-2-tp5561048p5597254.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 10:41:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0B2106566C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:41:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-gy0-f182.google.com (mail-gy0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36C68FC1C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:41:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghrr20 with SMTP id r20so5455084ghr.13 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:41:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=3Ri+z7JOuMR1wcnV4GLgUuP6GK/NjVHjkcR5TINuxkU=; b=PqEIQSdT3n4DHyFkphQa/kVVEZeDsknOX6fhWYTkOIEaxJfc5XgPdUzbt6Q6r1DZM4 OoTQ0+IgUbJRjUxXUg1OQq9XlfgB3XmZ605jeC38LS5sGMJ1mjuknXTmzCjqE7FzEDKx 5PCEN66m5d0et3u/pYXOTe9yJZ9H6rw8DWRF/uEU6tMBrl6ewMZoJVae/Ivgmx5kzwrZ dzt4jUqOhi59V91iwU1bF17SFK1gsSO2NJc05ORyYcbOZ06yc/bbA3PPg+vYN4kWpO8O EDyjD9D14g0e2E/xioxva9kF590RnU6yUNl1VVpXAraST382C33cthqByDGB2RS0/ue0 txGQ== Received: by 10.236.153.104 with SMTP id e68mr24966421yhk.74.1332844907950; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r5sm10473578ani.19.2012.03.27.03.41.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3VH80m5wDrz2CG5c for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:41:44 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20336.62110.137137.843856@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> <20336.62110.137137.843856@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlROYdZMnuG3aE3nPd8oHI4n2Y/7BkaAGNRSTLz84eG3a7PDHi1BjnUSy6gLBtHA1oSJGw7 Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:41:49 -0000 On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:50:06 -0400 Robert Huff articulated: > > Polytropon writes: > > > Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the > > system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning > > curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a > > Braille output. > > In the case of speech recognition, that's a curve many might > be willing to travel if they had reason to believe it was effort > wisely invested. > There are a couple of ports that cleim to do speech > recognition. Does anyone have experience with them? When it comes to "speech recognition", the only two applications that seem to work reliably at all levels are "Siri on iPhone 4S" and "Dragon NaturallySpeaking", neither of which are obviously available on FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a *nix/BSD version of "Dragon NaturallySpeaking" in production. In any case, I do have a friend who is severely vision impaired that uses that software with amazing results. She can definitely dictate a letter faster than I can manually create one. I did try two different ports two years ago and they were sadly lacking in their ability to achieve any true speech recognition. They were painfully slow to even get configured. I gave up within a few hours on the project. It was only an experiment anyway. I sincerely hope you can find a truly useful application to suit your needs. By the way, in the US anyway, there are many foundations that will give you financial assistance or grants to purchase software that will make your PC more readily available to you. I am not sure if that kind of support is available in your locale. -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 11:04:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277A3106566C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:04:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB72C8FC14 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:04:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 218AC5C22 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:13:01 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F719D8C.7070005@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:59:24 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> <20336.62110.137137.843856@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:04:50 -0000 On 03/27/12 20:41, Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:50:06 -0400 > Robert Huff articulated: > >> Polytropon writes: >> >>> Speech recognition requires training. Both the user and the >>> system have to learn from each other. But you have a learning >>> curve everywhere, be it typing, talking, or reading from a >>> Braille output. >> In the case of speech recognition, that's a curve many might >> be willing to travel if they had reason to believe it was effort >> wisely invested. >> There are a couple of ports that cleim to do speech >> recognition. Does anyone have experience with them? > When it comes to "speech recognition", the only two applications that > seem to work reliably at all levels are "Siri on iPhone 4S" and "Dragon > NaturallySpeaking", neither of which are obviously available on > FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a *nix/BSD version of > "Dragon NaturallySpeaking" in production. In any case, I do have a > friend who is severely vision impaired that uses that software with > amazing results. She can definitely dictate a letter faster than I can > manually create one. The biggest contender in ports is sphinx- libraries are used as a basis for siri and the google offering. This is apparently used by phone companies, etc. Each of which use teams of developers to get it working the way they want. Getting it to work on an individual basis... Apparently the results will primarily vary based on the dictionaries that are supplied, so it does mean one may work better than the other. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 11:48:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51FA4106566C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:48:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A458FC16 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:48:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.37]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2012 07:47:48 -0400 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BKI48073; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 07:47:47 -0400 Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2012 07:47:47 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20337.43235.51781.884070@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 07:47:47 -0400 To: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> References: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> <20336.62110.137137.843856@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr17.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:48:56 -0000 Jerry writes: > > There are a couple of ports that claim to do speech > > recognition. Does anyone have experience with them? > > I sincerely hope you can find a truly useful application to suit > your needs. In my case, it's "want", not "need". (But that's the "want" of "gee, there's this whole list of things which might be easier using voice recognition".) Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 13:39:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2F0106566B for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:39:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu) Received: from x.it.okstate.edu (x.it.okstate.edu [139.78.2.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E042A8FC0C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:39:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dc.cis.okstate.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x.it.okstate.edu (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2RDL4NY045548 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:21:04 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from martin@dc.cis.okstate.edu) Message-Id: <201203271321.q2RDL4NY045548@x.it.okstate.edu> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <45546.1332854464.1@dc.cis.okstate.edu> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:21:04 -0500 From: Martin McCormick Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:39:43 -0000 Polytropon writes: > That's correct. However, unlike a Braille readout which > gives tactile information (through the reader's hands), > synthetic voice cannot easily accomodate to the reader's > habits and reading speed. "Scanning text" is not possible > as the generated voiced text is played in "linear time", > which means you cannot easily skip forward and backward, > re-read a certain passage, and you basically do not come > down to the "letter level", you only have a "word level". You are absolutely right on all counts. I was speaking from the standpoint of the amount of work and or extra expense that one would need to go through to get the interface fully operational. Nobody has yet figured out how to build a Braille display that is affordable, let's say 100 US Dollars or less for even one line of Braille much less a whole page or better yet a graphical screen that could display shapes and possibly textures that are not Braille characters. Prices of 5000 Dollars are not uncommon and single-line displays sell for well over 1000 Dollars anywhere you go. What is needed is a way to accomplish a tactile matrix that doesn't require precision machining or hand assembly for each pixel. That's why today's displays are so incredibly expensive and delicate. There are lots of neat ideas such as stimulators you might ware on your fingers as you move your hand over a large area, but making a tightly-packed matrix at almost microscopic level is still a pains-taking task. By the way, math done by any method other than Braille is darn next to useless. Equations in Braille can be formatted very much like they are in print and there is a whole Braille system for reading and writing math. So, I am not disagreeing at all with what you wrote here, just clarifying why I made the statements I made. > While this has benefits in "unconcentrated reading" (e. g. > reading an article or literature", it can be problematic > with scientific or technical text where a (healthy) reader > would let his eyes "jump" within the text stream. The thing I hate the most these days is the lost art of the linear declarative sentence. If the output of a program is some full-screen form in which the information one wants is in check boxes, you have to listen to the whole !%#%00--- thing just to find out whether or not it worked. There are usually one or two things we really wanted to know and the rest is unchanged but must be endured to get the one or two grains of wheat in all that chaff. Since it's full-screen stuff, it is hard to pipe to a script so I guess the artists are happy and the rest of us are just tapping our feet impatiently waiting for the water torture to end. Fortunately, unix operations are still relatively free from the worst GUI parlor tricks, but I use safari on a Mac to access some Windows-centric web sites related to work and they make me want to straighten out a horse shoe without a forge I get so mad at listening to the minutes of audio with the results of what I did always at or near the last of the text and there seems to be no way to stanch the deluge without loosing the gold nuggets. In conclusion, FreeBSD has been another wonderful open-source platform as far as I can say. Many of the systems I run it on here do not have sound cards and are either on virtual boxes, in other buildings or towns and so a speech or Braille console directly on the system isn't possible so I have always used some other device to provide accessibility and never been disappointed. After all, it's unix which means one can expect certain behaviors regarding standard devices. 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To request an application form, schedule your interview and receive more information about this position please reply to Eliseo@jobdayseu.com,with your personal identification number for this position IDNO: 2854 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 18:46:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC771065672 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:46:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from black.katagoto@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1378FC18 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:46:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so265909yhg.13 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:46:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7gIYrd5OXezpA6jL3Qy6vfto5GIKriJKTiuublvVqK8=; b=wZH04c4Te5pCU9xWpBpE/3mDfhoGxm3G3fwu8k+hwjmwrAmVLVE4VrMApGmwUtjplC 2a7bTgvxBsD9FjT3gXjf2NCDD2PE6K2TmS4kdKw4pmgMmFUeIjRWBXmAK/b9WpUeOE9b VNLXN78DIAVYfQPusVeFUorrTCEcgR7SzhN+ZfXrivOY1oBAHJyGfdZeG60RHMY0ONA7 5SM6y3bVd6iDozRLiWIRwCvYH7mFqvKWPG9f21dxDLdMB3vXWmMX7QwGsQI3l7zQvrSM r21VP36j1UdiH6HHwugta2wTrMPpT0Wuz4cWGPPn1Xy8Fh9+YZW6QwwRNjq8scqnVg6N voEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.182.2 with SMTP id n2mr27487941yhm.11.1332874015156; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.55.25 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:46:55 +0200 Message-ID: From: Kata Goto To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Post-installation error on two disks X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:46:56 -0000 Hello all, I am trying to install FreeBSD 9.0 AMD64 on two hard drive disks, I followed the handbook and I make this configuration : My two HDD : - ada0 : OCZ Vertex 2 40 GB (GPT) - ada1 : Western Digital VelociRaptor 150 GB (GPT) The setup : Disk Partition Type Size Mountpoint Label ada0 freebsd-boot 512K ada0 freebsd-ufs 25G / exrootfs ada0 freebsd-ufs 26G /var exvarfs ada1 freebsd-ufs 135G /usr exusrfs ada1 freebsd-ufs 4G /tmp extmpfs I commit and the installation ended with no error. But when I reboot : could not find file system superblock the following file system had an unexpected inconsistency ufs /dev/ada1p2 (/tmp) I tried many configurations (switching disk/partitions/slices), but the last partition of my WD fails always. Is my HDD unsupported, have you got an idea? For you help, In advance, Thanks. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 19:06:49 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C18B1065670 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:06:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from goksin.akdeniz@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B115B8FC08 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:06:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so305237bkc.13 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:06:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :x-mailer:mime-version:content-type; bh=bwjxbkjWFJHBp05Xr39ncVfNuAM3GcNp3AGjqP0Yh5E=; b=hHB3QI+dA6msVwPYc8meBwDzXdHwhjrKlsBuZJM43838ZEROF8Ou3rRhn0q1fuXJU9 yR41VGTF1P1aL+E6q2w++uOtE8VKKM1UCGcWnai7buAEQR1+ZTHcN4hYOSj0nnXbKE9P c+XqUYwQyjSbdU944RkLKAaZlC3X0eyyYtTP/ManFQtwXAWnfXYvBA/U2jqGEhw8lwir TTCcCrhefDs6RTAMj5f8VlUFaIB1Ddw+87kDSp1JStcB0MiTSebFFbVpRPj1Vnz2yslG YC6EuyFDz2NpkIQOe141UW/tp8pF/bKSXUh3Q0RQcCQB8rZKF/A2saUK+zZ2cHWCyk4P nKCA== Received: by 10.205.129.4 with SMTP id hg4mr5325110bkc.16.1332875207794; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.elkotek ([78.163.53.78]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f6sm1392137bkg.10.2012.03.27.12.06.45 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:06:39 +0300 From: =?ISO-8859-9?Q?G=F6k=FEin?= Akdeniz To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: <20120327220639.80e3c6ae.goksin.akdeniz@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.3 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="PGP-SHA1"; boundary="Signature=_Tue__27_Mar_2012_22_06_39_+0300_baBQAt6OC0a4P3Jc" Subject: Re: Post-installation error on two disks X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: goksin.akdeniz@gmail.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:06:49 -0000 --Signature=_Tue__27_Mar_2012_22_06_39_+0300_baBQAt6OC0a4P3Jc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-9 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:46:55 +0200 tarihinde Kata Goto yazm=FD=FE: > I commit and the installation ended with no error. > But when I reboot : > could not find file system superblock > the following file system had an unexpected inconsistency > ufs /dev/ada1p2 (/tmp) >=20 > I tried many configurations (switching disk/partitions/slices), but > the last partition of my WD fails always. > Is my HDD unsupported, have you got an idea? >=20 Boot system in single mode and run fsck on all partitions of WD drive. I hope it fixes --=20 G=F6k=FEin Akdeniz --Signature=_Tue__27_Mar_2012_22_06_39_+0300_baBQAt6OC0a4P3Jc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJPcg/DAAoJEC4yIan56TgwZpQP+wc0Ish5uACbRVm15Xap5ild a1Iv2bPcQdD3VpTvUgWOG3KuKPN/ql0xkodyjtNuPXdVqlJC8hEBE/HLVDemExuP GqvzSe13KggiG3XRCVCtUPz9JNJX/JLfn2XyIjEaBmIg40W+/N6vHLCx6ARsX0u+ K7vKdLYzmt9LUWQd65QmRr9O0/Gq/UyPBreBwrryNRJ8s2GrMvCRWZznetdDqTwS JL10R7PlpNWKeFZyYXk2/pnDYDCRDTrTQU+hhleUeN6umP51GGoU0VDhY3lf3Usk qlIt63hcDZOEufYzr/TBuqhhVxLZra2vHPzFZxVZU/ZnVW3UnZM9Q+PhvSgIgKA8 t2wGOyPxtj5SuadwWynWU+SskrSlKZbqorG+LCrTPWqnkq3eYjzVDpTpC2c/UE/K fJ/Y1lhXJn3MNbh46H8QagQq175NI+foUKjq9Pr12AxWGZFtQmtDF050IgVOIugz 0NNqDJnMrFaK0dxxAi30leb8qzJQsQ+3vmSSAxD52Pl52+TNe3UEAJC21YornmOj 2slk646DmKFZLEIwO4QXUb6/ji732f1MBj180bl9uFWQouDd8OKCS/Y87cb/vepv sjdbrnAb4rwk7w7LkorIii8abgrWxdVU/WdnDYa+YBREddbB8stwNnVTpBp5/p8r UFaKA5K/5ALflqmfjeV8 =bwO7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Tue__27_Mar_2012_22_06_39_+0300_baBQAt6OC0a4P3Jc-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 19:46:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68887106566B for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:46:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from thought.org (plato.thought.org [209.180.213.209]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4D68FC0A for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:46:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by thought.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8678AE80F0C; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:40:17 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: Da Rock Message-ID: <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. Of_Interest: With 25 years of service to the Unix community. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:46:22 -0000 On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:28:50AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000 > From: Da Rock > Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet > To: Chuck Swiger > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote: > >>To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and Android use. > >iOS uses a descendant of the Display PostScript WindowServer from NEXTSTEP, although the locals have switched over to Core Graphics with Quartz as the 2D compositing engine [1], along with OpenGL ES for 3D. > Interesting... Android would be using something else obviously FOSS. you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard plugin? i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with this tablet. i've never seen a keyboard that small. nice tablet, tho. gary PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard. not very much. So far... . > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 22:03:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360971065676 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:03:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from openslateproj@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0948FC0A for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:03:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so405045vbm.13 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:03:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=HH/fCLHQSgEpVsl1g2dN+qdJykEqeLJ9IrMDutJjFf8=; b=n/lYemwiF7KBYbTWkHxdOcophUOKlzIvInJetW7n1tZmSL+Loj0C895vkjEnmCckBW gULwgaS9eztg1APST+X2xEodSnpvJ7LHs8aaKl6CDjkNN2SX3GncqGsLH/lXB01dsv3T goO4uPNE1NQeJ/gYQ8kpNuAdlDW3dhlHu0MFt1NaD8aBHBMaNCihSz4qrMbj7+01rPSq uqywZka4antYHroXrtI4NMeGd8gA5B5L+tj0v72KSgDEtyvZQ1gj/aMoai8qItbmue+r sc9pIIMoQXmnHYGzStiytGXhe2EsriApI26aYuoBLuKqm/Zpd0aY0b+ZyjOEXGdEdQzd uYXQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.69.4 with SMTP id a4mr8506865vdu.87.1332885808767; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.7.130 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.7.130 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:03:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:03:28 -1000 Message-ID: From: Open Slate To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:03:30 -0000 Jumping in a bit late. I have had a goal of FreeBSD on a slate/tablet computer for roughly ten years. The comments in this thread echo my experience. Put simply, the primary focus of FreeBSD has been as a server. The Gnome team has worked hard to bring the OS to the desktop, with limited success. There are many things required before my slate concept can be realized. o power management o pen digitizer interface o HWR o pen friendly UI comparable to Newton OS o components that support a self-made (maker) approach to the hardware I still hold on to my goal. No telling when enough people will get interested. On Mar 27, 2012 9:46 AM, "Gary Kline" wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:28:50AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000 > From: Da Rock > Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet > To: Chuck Swiger > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote: > >>To ex... you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard plugin? i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with this tablet. i've never seen a keyboard that small. nice tablet, tho. gary PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard. not very much. So far... . > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > ht... -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://l... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 22:36:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964331065677 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:36:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (unknown [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3B98FC08 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:36:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id q2RMaUFN065655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.14.2/Submit) with UUCP id q2RMaUj9065654 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:36:30 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from fbsd81 ([192.168.200.81]) by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA05569; Tue, 27 Mar 12 14:28:48 PST Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:28:03 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: <4f72a163.BN/IQBnOEGq9Deqd%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> <20336.62110.137137.843856@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:36:31 -0000 Jerry wrote: > When it comes to "speech recognition", the only two applications > that seem to work reliably at all levels are "Siri on iPhone 4S" > and "Dragon NaturallySpeaking", neither of which are obviously > available on FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a > *nix/BSD version of "Dragon NaturallySpeaking" in production. The Windows version of "Dragon NaturallySpeaking" is, however, reputed to work well on wine, which is in ports. One of the D-NS developers (or maybe it was a tech support person) was helping out on the wine-users forum for a while; I don't recall having seen her post there recently, but this _might_ be because D-NS is working so well with recent wine versions that no one needs help with it. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 23:20:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F01D1065672 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:20:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy7-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy7.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C36948FC27 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:20:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 21598 invoked by uid 0); 27 Mar 2012 23:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy7.bluehost.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2012 23:20:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=xSRD9MqdjvtIKgk1SUzKYfPOAma3RC76E4To1xZQq40=; b=kET3XGjDh/i9hdTFFjWqSmGjhNlQXfx8h5cejlHRNWBjTZlN0KO7X+1a1Tna3Gl8PR7PlSOVkq8dGzPS3d8ueAorWbktiEvVHe1pRFozEaEHSpJ3FYLnNvj/vEWzwtg2; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SCfhB-00040W-UV for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:20:58 -0600 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:20:57 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120327232057.GA25055@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:20:59 -0000 On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:40:17PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard > plugin? i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with > this tablet. i've never seen a keyboard that small. nice > tablet, tho. No clue here. Sorry. > > PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard. not > very much. So far... . Isn't that what X-series tablet ThinkPads are for? http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087¤t-category-id=329576204C9E42289967E79E0E7C9A2D&menu-id=products&ref-id=products http://tinyurl.com/7723tww (both long and short URIs provided for your convenience) -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 23:23:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB43106564A for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC03A8FC18 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:23:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 358FD5C22 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:37:18 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F724BFF.1010807@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:23:43 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:23:45 -0000 On 03/28/12 08:03, Open Slate wrote: > Jumping in a bit late. I have had a goal of FreeBSD on a slate/tablet > computer for roughly ten years. The comments in this thread echo my > experience. Put simply, the primary focus of FreeBSD has been as a server. > The Gnome team has worked hard to bring the OS to the desktop, with limited > success. > > There are many things required before my slate concept can be realized. > > o power management > o pen digitizer interface > o HWR > o pen friendly UI comparable to Newton OS > o components that support a self-made (maker) approach to the hardware > > I still hold on to my goal. No telling when enough people will get > interested. +1 I'm not sure the pen interface is particularly necessary, but the touch screen should be able to handle both pen and finger touch. Another thought is in the apps to be used with the tablet- obviously they need to be binary packages, so that presents another problem there (as has come up on this list many times). As for the last, I have yet to find a "whitebox" laptop (particularly AMD based); apart from the dev kits I haven't seen any "whitebox" tablets either. > > On Mar 27, 2012 9:46 AM, "Gary Kline" wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:28:50AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: >> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000 >> From: Da Rock >> Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet >> To: Chuck Swiger >> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org >> On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote: >>> On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote: >>>> To ex... > you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard > plugin? i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with > this tablet. i've never seen a keyboard that small. nice > tablet, tho. > > gary > > PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard. not > very much. So far... . Isn't that the point of a tablet? To touch rather than type? Otherwise it becomes just a disjointed laptop... :) > > >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> ht... > -- > Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix > Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc > The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org > Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://l... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 27 23:25:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA279106564A for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:25:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF498FC0C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:25:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2E6E5C22 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:39:02 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F724C68.7090909@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:25:28 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201203261921.q2QJL8te040400@x.it.okstate.edu> <20120327001258.85f6a4fc.freebsd@edvax.de> <20336.62110.137137.843856@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20120327064144.6980b337@scorpio> <4f72a163.BN/IQBnOEGq9Deqd%perryh@pluto.rain.com> In-Reply-To: <4f72a163.BN/IQBnOEGq9Deqd%perryh@pluto.rain.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:25:29 -0000 On 03/28/12 15:28, perryh@pluto.rain.com wrote: > Jerry wrote: > >> When it comes to "speech recognition", the only two applications >> that seem to work reliably at all levels are "Siri on iPhone 4S" >> and "Dragon NaturallySpeaking", neither of which are obviously >> available on FreeBSD. I don't believe that there is even a >> *nix/BSD version of "Dragon NaturallySpeaking" in production. > The Windows version of "Dragon NaturallySpeaking" is, however, > reputed to work well on wine, which is in ports. One of the D-NS > developers (or maybe it was a tech support person) was helping out > on the wine-users forum for a while; I don't recall having seen her > post there recently, but this _might_ be because D-NS is working so > well with recent wine versions that no one needs help with it. That would be really useful. Keeping that one in the memory banks... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 00:21:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78021065670 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:21:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from thought.org (plato.thought.org [209.180.213.209]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9338FC12 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:21:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by thought.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 68C68E80F0C; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: Chuck Swiger Message-ID: <20120328002145.GA6339@thought.org> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <58760E27-E0FC-490F-BC5E-A7E621D3FCAA@mac.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <58760E27-E0FC-490F-BC5E-A7E621D3FCAA@mac.com> Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. Of_Interest: With 25 years of service to the Unix community. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: FreeBSD - Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:21:46 -0000 On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 04:26:29PM -0700, Chuck Swiger wrote: > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:26:29 -0700 > From: Chuck Swiger > Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet > To: Gary Kline > Cc: FreeBSD - > X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) > > On Mar 27, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Gary Kline wrote: > > you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard > > plugin? i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with > > this tablet. i've never seen a keyboard that small. nice > > tablet, tho. > > 7" is too small for a QUERTY layout...you just can't do that without 11-12" of space. There have been folks working on one-handed "chord" keyboards which might fit into that space, but they have a steep learning curve. > > Regards, > -- > -Chuck > how about the eee-701s? they are no mo' but used to have a 70% of full size keyboard. my eee-900A had All the std keys. do we really need the F[n] keys? anyway, if not a tiny kybd, maybe a small one. Another thought: isnt there a rubber keyboard that rolls up or folds in half? IIRC, the keys do compress [about one mm], and with the heavy THUNK sound:: hey. anyway/nutshell, i do like this vivaldi tablet. =if= it had a thunkable and real keybd. gary PS critical note. am i mis-remembering, or did someone say that eee//ASUS was going to make a *quality* ten inch netbook? my VBC WOUld work seriously well on that. anybody?? -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 00:45:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A73106564A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:45:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E878FC15 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:45:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4210C3CC91; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:37:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2S0bntD001989; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:37:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:37:49 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Gary Kline Message-Id: <20120328023749.ccfc5767.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120328002145.GA6339@thought.org> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <58760E27-E0FC-490F-BC5E-A7E621D3FCAA@mac.com> <20120328002145.GA6339@thought.org> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:45:52 -0000 On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > how about the eee-701s? they are no mo' but used to have a > 70% of full size keyboard. my eee-900A had All the std > keys. do we really need the F[n] keys? > > > anyway, if not a tiny kybd, maybe a small one. Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here? It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+, comparable to Alt+ on early 3270's). Its dimensions are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight. However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 00:47:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3F9106566C for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:47:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9608FC24 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:47:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9C03CD3B; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:47:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2S0lYoj002019; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:47:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:47:34 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Martin McCormick Message-Id: <20120328024734.3bbc2b39.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <201203271321.q2RDL4NY045548@x.it.okstate.edu> References: <201203271321.q2RDL4NY045548@x.it.okstate.edu> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:47:36 -0000 On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:21:04 -0500, Martin McCormick wrote: > By the way, math done by any method other than Braille > is darn next to useless. Equations in Braille can be formatted > very much like they are in print and there is a whole Braille > system for reading and writing math. Interesting, I didn't know that. However, LaTeX allows writing (and typesetting) math on a "pure text basis" which may be interesting to authors who are unable to access a GUI-driven formula editor. Of course there is another learning courve here. But nothing does prohibit a blind scientist to write his stuff himself, read it himself; things as $\bar{x}=\frac{\sum_{i=1}^{n}({x_i})}{n}$ can be quite easily be used if you have learned few relatively simple things: typing on the keyboard, using a powerful editor, the "LaTeX language", and maybe Braille. This way, an author can concentrate on content, while the tools step into the background and let him just do his stuff. > After all, it's unix which means one can expect > certain behaviors regarding standard devices. As long as the devices play nice... :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 00:57:21 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B86106564A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:57:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from thought.org (plato.thought.org [209.180.213.209]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 267168FC12 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:57:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by thought.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 89F85E80F0C; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:57:20 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: Polytropon Message-ID: <20120328005720.GD6339@thought.org> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <58760E27-E0FC-490F-BC5E-A7E621D3FCAA@mac.com> <20120328002145.GA6339@thought.org> <20120328023749.ccfc5767.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120328023749.ccfc5767.freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. Of_Interest: With 25 years of service to the Unix community. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:57:21 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 02:37:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:37:49 +0200 > From: Polytropon > Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet > To: Gary Kline > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > how about the eee-701s? they are no mo' but used to have a > > 70% of full size keyboard. my eee-900A had All the std > > keys. do we really need the F[n] keys? > > > > > > anyway, if not a tiny kybd, maybe a small one. > > Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here? > It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does > not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+, > comparable to Alt+ on early 3270's). Its dimensions > are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight. > > However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard. in jan or feb i bought a mini sized kybd. it is i think 11.5" long. it save loads of travel time for my finger and shoulder. I Did ck the ASUS Website a few days ago, but couldnt be sure of anything. thats why i asked > > > > -- > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 01:48:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4661065672 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:48:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy3-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy3.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C2738FC1F for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:48:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 5683 invoked by uid 0); 28 Mar 2012 01:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2012 01:48:35 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=0hAcfBJ1lJuOnxTNRIbKkdoehB0UkfjFbjdEC4N1ycQ=; b=RYkhiLV8WJEO6HtQTRQ1wKdHL5RZ295ZQHJu1cK4Mk8djzcfZvqbg+aFY5evV37UK4HIvz3nZGzCu5fR+S50C30Dk8zlOcCb5qOnZLeIykeWfrTx3yAV90Hq6qnFdo71; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SCi02-00083u-F6 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:48:34 -0600 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:48:34 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120328014834.GA11037@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <58760E27-E0FC-490F-BC5E-A7E621D3FCAA@mac.com> <20120328002145.GA6339@thought.org> <20120328023749.ccfc5767.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120328023749.ccfc5767.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:48:35 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 02:37:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > how about the eee-701s? they are no mo' but used to have a > > 70% of full size keyboard. my eee-900A had All the std > > keys. do we really need the F[n] keys? > > > > > > anyway, if not a tiny kybd, maybe a small one. > > Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here? > It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does > not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+, > comparable to Alt+ on early 3270's). Its dimensions > are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight. > > However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard. I was thinking of mentioning the Happy Hacking keyboard, but I see you beat me to it. I have not used one for more than a few minutes once, though. Does the Fn+ work with Ctrl+Alt+F combination to move around between TTY consoles? -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 01:54:06 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81B6106566B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:54:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C338FC08 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:54:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5683CD09; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:54:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2S1s3MX002603; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:54:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:54:03 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Chad Perrin Message-Id: <20120328035403.f8daf4ef.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120328014834.GA11037@hemlock.hydra> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <58760E27-E0FC-490F-BC5E-A7E621D3FCAA@mac.com> <20120328002145.GA6339@thought.org> <20120328023749.ccfc5767.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120328014834.GA11037@hemlock.hydra> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:54:06 -0000 On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:48:34 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 02:37:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > > how about the eee-701s? they are no mo' but used to have a > > > 70% of full size keyboard. my eee-900A had All the std > > > keys. do we really need the F[n] keys? > > > > > > > > > anyway, if not a tiny kybd, maybe a small one. > > > > Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here? > > It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does > > not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+, > > comparable to Alt+ on early 3270's). Its dimensions > > are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight. > > > > However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard. > > I was thinking of mentioning the Happy Hacking keyboard, but I see you > beat me to it. I have not used one for more than a few minutes once, > though. Does the Fn+ work with Ctrl+Alt+F combination to > move around between TTY consoles? As far as I remember, it does. I don't have a HHK here to check. >From what I know, the keyboard generates the proper codes internally, so Fn+ is equivalent to PF in any regards, and therefore any combination with Ctrl and/or Alt should also work as expected. To the computer, it should be no difference from a "real" keyboard. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 02:29:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044F01065674 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:29:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy4-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy4.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B6DFE8FC0C for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:29:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 32075 invoked by uid 0); 28 Mar 2012 02:29:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2012 02:29:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=rvcGGkubjYuNhWMabMHLXaO6sHOJ86QrQjRe+BQJDy0=; b=Ul8U4xDbuAHpXvkFVrHSDSQ3qxsYwj+VYkmWXewXhtrbwePBdDLC1ItWGIgFYNgbe2O6F7LpM+ODhNYLXo+PKKQyLzIj0b0SQ0FgezyBFcKyC+92XWmfLMNSgw+Ax1jN; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SCidt-00077I-Oj for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:29:45 -0600 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:29:45 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120328022945.GA15933@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <58760E27-E0FC-490F-BC5E-A7E621D3FCAA@mac.com> <20120328002145.GA6339@thought.org> <20120328023749.ccfc5767.freebsd@edvax.de> <20120328014834.GA11037@hemlock.hydra> <20120328035403.f8daf4ef.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120328035403.f8daf4ef.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:29:47 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 03:54:03AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:48:34 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > > I was thinking of mentioning the Happy Hacking keyboard, but I see you > > beat me to it. I have not used one for more than a few minutes once, > > though. Does the Fn+ work with Ctrl+Alt+F combination to > > move around between TTY consoles? > > As far as I remember, it does. I don't have a HHK here to check. > >From what I know, the keyboard generates the proper codes > internally, so Fn+ is equivalent to PF in > any regards, and therefore any combination with Ctrl and/or > Alt should also work as expected. To the computer, it should > be no difference from a "real" keyboard. My concern in this regard would be whether the keyboard "knows" that the Fn key is supposed to be applied to the F key, and not to the Ctrl or Alt key. If neither the Ctrl or Alt key is modifiable by the Fn key, I guess that might be a non-issue, but I'm pretty sure that (for instance) the Fn key on a ThinkPad is meant to be used with only one other key at a time. It's just not meant to make up for the lack of standard keyboard keys, so there isn't any conflict. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 03:09:18 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 279231065673; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:09:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pgollucci@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1A68FC1D; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:09:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qao25 with SMTP id 25so645059qao.13 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:09:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type; bh=wMQWWSsv0V7mwej7lsOx43nz5Rpuuwf7+r94eLesuug=; b=wQaBmK48Pfgt/B1ur8QMAulPAia4JTzzM3AcssMgpPMe6tGUdTPz45Nmjdr5T4+jPB PzVp+jolmgWYJdfqBazdA//lLVhEikcJMCImxTyEH/LLKwW9BPjcvsYTn02Q+j8npG3z JUwD8Lqcaa6BAvOL8E+0TV78l6hrTusJs9uwALP13L9gFBj3uVyoRZL9HVb4BsnVfDfc IePN4xKoA1L8kRtDNGV1709wruxXb0jKWObPDTeaBlLWMaIUxb835qtvzA9pP25g/Ldj V763Jliouhp0V8UYHN0HEr63DtUrvznxQKIt7NqL7n30GVtf8+8u4qAB31B9JT7sdThJ AvDw== Received: by 10.224.32.12 with SMTP id a12mr35802092qad.66.1332904156834; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from philip.hq.rws (wsip-174-79-184-239.dc.dc.cox.net. [174.79.184.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x4sm4297102qaa.22.2012.03.27.20.09.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F7280D7.8050409@p6m7g8.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:09:11 +0000 From: "Philip M. Gollucci" Organization: P6M7G8 Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111029 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Philip M. Gollucci" References: <4F708223.4060803@p6m7g8.com> <4F7126BA.1000202@p6m7g8.com> In-Reply-To: <4F7126BA.1000202@p6m7g8.com> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig65DE325CEF9DB244211F385D" Cc: questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd 9.0-release + zfs + mysqld(percona) = kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:09:18 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig65DE325CEF9DB244211F385D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/27/12 02:32, Philip M. Gollucci wrote: > Some other tuning updates >=20 > $ zfs set zfs:zfs_nocacheflush =3D 1 > $ sysctl vfs.zfs.prefetch_disable=3D1 >=20 > $ cat /etc/my.cnf > skip-innodb-doublewrite > innodb_flush_log_at_trx_commit=3D2 >=20 >=20 > $ zfs set primarycache=3Dmetadata zmysqlD > $ zfs set atime=3Doff zmysqlD > $ zfs set recordsize=3D16k zmysqlD >=20 > but not on zmysqlL >=20 > my next plan is to turn off tmpfs and use ZVOL swaps then to simply use= > just zroot/tmp as a normal dir. >=20 > after that I'll drastically increase maxswzone. >=20 > still hoping someone has already done this. None of that made a difference; however I haven't tried the ZVOL swaps yet b/c they're quite new and this after all production eventually. so I've been reading up on maxswzone. Its seems to me that nobody really understands it. Fortunately it isn't used very much, It works out to roughly 7.7GB from 32MB okay fine. If I double it, that should give me 15.4GB from 64MB (still not enough). If I 16x it that should give me 246GB from 512MB. Thats more my physical ram + swap. Oh well. I've seen John Baldwin write on lists o) you have another problem if the default isn't enough o) when it panics I pick up the crash dump swap info and do #blocks in use*totalswblocks/maxswzone o) setting it higher claims wired memory which can't be reused. tuning(7) is from the 4.x days and is useless here. something thats really confusing me is if the output from $ vmstat -z |grep solaris is relevant or the size of my swap itself or if by upping maxswzone I'm taking away too much from zfs in the long r= un. So tracing this below kern.maxswzone=3D"536870912" # =3D 16*(32*1024*1024) vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 24411488 n=3D12205744 ### n =3D cnt.v_page_count / 2; if (maxswzone && n > maxswzone / sizeof(struct swblock)) n =3D maxswzone / sizeof(struct swblock); struct swblock { struct swblock *swb_hnext; vm_object_t swb_object; vm_pindex_t swb_index; int swb_count; daddr_t swb_pages[SWAP_META_PAGES]; }; if this is >43.98 bytes then the conditional is true; however its not b/c the printf() message isn't written out below. if (n2 !=3D n) printf("Swap zone entries reduced from %d to %d.\n", which means the initial allocation succeeds with n=3D12205744 and not maxswzone. ITEM SIZE LIMIT USED FREE REQ FAIL SLEEP SWAPMETA: 288, 1864135, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0= So more than a little perplex by these size/limits and that none of its used on a system thats running out of it. subr_param.c: --------------- long maxswzone; /* max swmeta KVA storage */ SYSCTL_LONG(_kern, OID_AUTO, maxswzone, CTLFLAG_RDTUN, &maxswzone, 0, "Maximum memory for swap metadata"); #ifdef VM_SWZONE_SIZE_MAX maxswzone =3D VM_SWZONE_SIZE_MAX; #endif TUNABLE_LONG_FETCH("kern.maxswzone", &maxswzone); param.h: -------- /* * Ceiling on amount of swblock kva space, can be changed via * the kern.maxswzone /boot/loader.conf variable. */ #ifndef VM_SWZONE_SIZE_MAX #define VM_SWZONE_SIZE_MAX (32 * 1024 * 1024) #endif swap_pager.c: -------------- void swap_pager_swap_init(void) { int n, n2; //comments skipped nsw_cluster_max =3D min((MAXPHYS/PAGE_SIZE), MAX_PAGEOUT_CLUSTER); mtx_lock(&pbuf_mtx); nsw_rcount =3D (nswbuf + 1) / 2; nsw_wcount_sync =3D (nswbuf + 3) / 4; nsw_wcount_async =3D 4; nsw_wcount_async_max =3D nsw_wcount_async; mtx_unlock(&pbuf_mtx); /* * Initialize our zone. Right now I'm just guessing on the number * we need based on the number of pages in the system. Each swblock * can hold 16 pages, so this is probably overkill. This reservation * is typically limited to around 32MB by default. */ n =3D cnt.v_page_count / 2; if (maxswzone && n > maxswzone / sizeof(struct swblock)) n =3D maxswzone / sizeof(struct swblock); n2 =3D n; swap_zone =3D uma_zcreate("SWAPMETA", sizeof(struct swblock), NULL, NULL= , NULL, NULL, UMA_ALIGN_PTR, UMA_ZONE_NOFREE | UMA_ZONE_VM); if (swap_zone =3D=3D NULL) panic("failed to create swap_zone."); do { if (uma_zone_set_obj(swap_zone, &swap_zone_obj, n)) break; /* * if the allocation failed, try a zone two thirds the * size of the previous attempt. */ n -=3D ((n + 2) / 3); } while (n > 0); if (n2 !=3D n) printf("Swap zone entries reduced from %d to %d.\n", n2, n); n2 =3D n; /* * Initialize our meta-data hash table. The swapper does not need to * be quite as efficient as the VM system, so we do not use an * oversized hash table. * * n: size of hash table, must be power of 2 * swhash_mask: hash table index mask */ for (n =3D 1; n < n2 / 8; n *=3D 2) ; swhash =3D malloc(sizeof(struct swblock *) * n, M_VMPGDATA, M_WAITOK | M_ZERO); swhash_mask =3D n - 1; mtx_init(&swhash_mtx, "swap_pager swhash", NULL, MTX_DEF); } --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1024D/DB9B8C1C B90B FBC3 A3A1 C71A 8E70 3F8C 75B8 8FFB DB9B 8C1C Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354 Member, Apache Software Foundation Committer, FreeBSD Foundation Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc. Director Operations, Ridecharge Inc. Work like you don't need the money, love like you'll never get hurt, and dance like nobody's watching. --------------enig65DE325CEF9DB244211F385D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFPcoDZdbiP+9ubjBwRAgQcAJ0R5rAqf40NxYgZxNmbN3fC4VwjgwCfV5Ss 4u4Oi9Nbas/8VBLNPyF0CYU= =dnUa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig65DE325CEF9DB244211F385D-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 04:03:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5E4106564A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 04:03:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marek@manet.cz) Received: from smtp.manet.cz (www.manet.cz [212.96.160.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6128FC16 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 04:03:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.manet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35A61FCD37 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:55:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.77.100] (ip-89-103-230-22.net.upcbroadband.cz [89.103.230.22]) by smtp.manet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B9E291FCD36 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:55:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Marek =?UTF-8?Q?=C4=8Dernock=C3=BD?= To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4F663678.9040906@gmail.com> References: <1332092329.1915.38.camel@Jerewan> <4F663678.9040906@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:54:47 +0200 Message-ID: <1332896088.1915.171.camel@Jerewan> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.30.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.94.1 using ClamSMTP on talita.manet.cz Subject: Re: Spare disk X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 04:03:47 -0000 Previously I had machine with SATA disks on SATA controller and I used atacontrol. Now I prepare new machine with SATA disks on LSI SAS controller. I have 3 disk and I can create RAID1 with 2 mirrored disks + 1 spare disk. Joshua Isom píše v Ne 18. 03. 2012 v 14:24 -0500: > What are you using to manage your raid? > > On 3/18/2012 12:38 PM, Marek Äernocký wrote: > > Hi, > > > > how can I add spare disk to RAID1 on FreeBSD 9? atacontrol has command > > addspare, but new camcontrol misses it. > > > > > > Regards > > > > Marv > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd..org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 07:05:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C3B106564A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:05:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from openslateproj@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F6418FC08 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:05:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcmm1 with SMTP id m1so731253vcm.13 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:05:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=EnkpzxJHmkGMDho0YOgpbVmcy9RAo5F/iEc4Q8m0KEo=; b=YlR3yxT4OBxU3rPiCPAJlr/AW5m2md+33F+TbsppEftD92oukSzN3eRtJ1wGVgUwpH LsC62i9ElBvGpCLN88b26/bo6na6Q6DQoiHN1lLid6aKvR0UTAhQhY6K9Q3jJhaE+LKD jY0lkId4z2v+hX+XmZ+6hmF94FayJj2AJU1buG0NEZNympKmckTO2KZVfIGXbwdYOwx6 /1pxG/AYNoaa4n+RwcZdzQcrbt6pw5nbxSqZwdzgrWRT7eVmuJct0CqLiKEIi5YQdvu1 2pM+Cu838N2RxztAHFtp9mAzZi75R5s6IjHEZ6iOa5rwKMdZtewJ9JrE8ZG6fTO31cSZ 4l7g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.38.102 with SMTP id f6mr11144454vdk.70.1332918320602; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.7.130 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.7.130 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:05:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:05:19 -1000 Message-ID: From: Open Slate To: Gary Kline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Da Rock Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:05:26 -0000 I position a tablet as a consumer device. Web surfing, watching video, a little texting. A student slate must support creativity, especially writing. At the same time I see the qwerty keyboard as an obstacle, hard to learn, impossible to use while holding the slate. I want HWR as good as the Newton, and buttons for a chording keyboard along the bottom on both sides. Buttons support two handed use or one handed, either side. For those who prefer classic keyboard, plug in a USB model. So much of what I want just isn't there. But it is possible. Gary Dunn Open Slate Project http://openslate.org/ On Mar 27, 2012 9:46 AM, "Gary Kline" wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:28:50AM +1000, Da Rock wrote: > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000 > From: Da Rock > Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet > To: Chuck Swiger > Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote: > >On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote: > >>To ex... you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard plugin? i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with this tablet. i've never seen a keyboard that small. nice tablet, tho. gary PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard. not very much. So far... . > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > ht... -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://l... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 08:44:19 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E7E106567C for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:44:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfrankymee@ymail.com) Received: from mail.flm.ro (frontline1.mediasat.ro [193.226.85.171]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9E28FC26 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:44:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 32578 invoked by uid 512); 28 Mar 2012 11:44:16 +0300 Received: from 216.59.3.82 by mail.flm.ro (envelope-from , uid 508) with qmail-scanner-1.25-st-qms (spamassassin: 3.2.4. perlscan: 1.25-st-qms. Clear:RC:0(216.59.3.82):SA:1(6.0/5.0):. Processed in 0.798146 secs); 28 Mar 2012 08:44:16 -0000 X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=6.0 required=5.0 X-Spam-Level: ++++++ X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN-Mail-From: pfrankymee@ymail.com via mail.flm.ro X-Antivirus-MYDOMAIN: 1.25-st-qms (Clear:RC:0(216.59.3.82):SA:1(6.0/5.0):. Processed in 0.798146 secs Process 32511) Received: from unknown (HELO WIN-TF1IF2F94JN) (test@flm.ro@216.59.3.82) by mail.flm.ro with SMTP; 28 Mar 2012 11:44:15 +0300 Message-ID: <02e942d6-40996-3b06072253287@win-tf1if2f94jn> From: "Franky Meersman" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:43:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Subject: :SPAM: Re: Important Reply. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Franky Meersman List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:44:19 -0000 Good day, My name is Franky Meersman, a senior staff and an executive of a bank here in United Kingdom. I am writing to seek your indulgence and assistance. I wish to make a transfer involving an amount of money estimated at 20,000.000.00 (Twenty Million British Pounds Sterling) and I feel strongly that you will be capable of receiving this fund into your account in your country. I am proposing to make this transfer to a designated bank account of your choice. I could not do this project alone since I am an insider in the bank. A zero account balance or a new account may be opened for this purpose. Thus, for your indulgence and support, I propose an offer of 25% of the total amount to be your compensation and commission after the transfer has been successfully concluded. reply me private (meersmanfr@ymail.com) 447045709908 Thanks and God bless. Regards Franky Meersman From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 14:08:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53286106564A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:08:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from icemaca@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF6BF8FC19 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:08:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so1268178bkc.13 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:08:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UcFYXoZ/Cg4xdFjuwe5l+98d9eAk+2ECUslEG7qRmzQ=; b=VhljeYHlvqDED8aYe4ooH4+sdM/xEtEdwaPzTi04ZZ0S5CzqQxGEJaEBAJmazPuwD1 6UEWJsQJSKq3pSWpi37FABhn7JZWKmPhNiCdGV+YndI0AjLZQ7ovNIIAMaZGx8hShyLA j6+kUPMEdC0gqD9D7MQQAAjWoz64Iq0+jcXTAj8ngs3HJCGZ6wOsoxmTe+knZTTh0B11 Estm7TzttqC8a5IH/9XK+hSzgJ/j6lP8mugk8YHSPm/ukBQ3EeJUwO6xY7KYa/By4siq M4sXVS52EkTuyXNkDTp319MI4Dlj8mRBf6zrAr4FC+HuKoXV9YVbGYay/PP6vtFf6+fh yuYQ== Received: by 10.204.156.216 with SMTP id y24mr12083834bkw.60.1332943715463; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.102] ([85.232.210.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id zx16sm6806405bkb.13.2012.03.28.07.08.33 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:08:32 +0200 From: icemac User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111228 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:08:37 -0000 Hi, I am fairly new to fbsd and not a linux user, just windows and osx. My first install was version 7.1 for a short while and had 7.2, but only just came back to it with 9.0-r (amd64). I have a bit of an issue with the port system and was hoping to get some basic info as to what i might be doing wrong or missing before i go mess up my install. Basically, i know the basics of installing, maintaining ports, etc, but I seem to always end up with a rather flakey system, apps not running properly and so on. The one time I was really happy with my system is when i had tinderbox set up (on ver 7.x) and built everything in there, but was still using the same make.conf options in there as my /etc/make.conf I only ever had this option set CFLAGS= -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe and have tried without anything in /etc/make.conf ( apart from perl version entry from the port). So far i have never concerned myself while ldconfig or related stuff, as i am green on that, and have always had either default or whatever gets updated automatically. Would that be an issue, or my only issue? is there something else i need to set up properly on my system, or are my fingers just too big for my keyboard? At the moment i have 9.0-r installed, using packages only, with un-updated ports (so i can delete/add packages with portupgrade -PP and have no version issues), then i have tinderbox set up again, with latest ports tree (csup'ed last night) and plan to rebuild all the packages i'm using, but i don't want to have to avoid straight "make install clean" for every small thing later. Can someone give me some direction? I am still learning to use fbsd, and starting C, so i dont mind reading/testing. I dont mind running "pkg_delete -fav" every other day either atm. Thanks in advance From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 14:22:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05AEB106566C for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:22:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFDB28FC17 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:22:14 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=ITxTgA/rtCcRurxzkhluk83GRongX8Y54AyX54dW/O4=; b=WnjsexKKXuSA7MCS5iN5pPSRyjxdHZOeXiRxcmGMUyPgqfGLtWJF8bBXYoeOyJ8AavhMvB5dGv9SRdZwud9LXwcnjlRmFh1C3dFvI+3D5Nxvzm34EaZm4QLH/wqUFrJm; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SCtlJ-0001EF-DV for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:22:14 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1332944523-20726-20725/5/4; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:22:03 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:22:03 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:22:15 -0000 My first suggestion is to begin using portmaster which can be found here: /usr/ports/ports-mgmt/portmaster My second suggestion is to please never ever ever mess with CFLAGS on FreeBSD. You can get away with it on some Linux distros, but FreeBSD strongly discourages it. My third suggestion is to keep at it and keep asking questions because we'd be glad to help :) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 14:40:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93804106564A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from icemaca@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1A88FC08 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:40:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so1314198bkc.13 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:40:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3Ai098mr8wwko3e0fpmrmQtnXBae3Nj06WFrKI5RZ7c=; b=CorgI1CejQ2qA2cGmzDkLd/m4gBgChV+/wE0esNXn7eDqLUnh74VQ+vV3ntCMKjvOh jv2erzJ02FGh5vqZ94bAC9t27XvAu49I9aM1Vdn1BrJpFINtAO66gUIfpPYDOI5V67oA H3c9UvWSZHJmAfmqd6WaLR74q4L7TCrBP0fm3cCuxh2un3oZgPIQc4Os+9BRTZyN/7T5 28viqiOYe4KY6euhq9FMx+xo8/1hhtOo30p3hlwDME+VA+Lza8biexjsqitmhryDR602 Ffb+U3IlisHpa++kOQAZ4xx80npVooFKNx00vLzk/RRNrWtTBfoiTNKnoUp1jSB8z8Ew Wf0Q== Received: by 10.204.129.196 with SMTP id p4mr12380093bks.21.1332945643099; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.102] ([85.232.210.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p19sm7128641bka.1.2012.03.28.07.40.41 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F7322E8.1040502@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:40:40 +0200 From: icemac User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111228 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:40:44 -0000 On 03/28/12 16:22, Mark Felder wrote: > My first suggestion is to begin using portmaster which can be found > here: /usr/ports/ports-mgmt/portmaster > > My second suggestion is to please never ever ever mess with CFLAGS on > FreeBSD. You can get away with it on some Linux distros, but FreeBSD > strongly discourages it. > > My third suggestion is to keep at it and keep asking questions because > we'd be glad to help :) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Thanks for your quick reply, but can you clarify what you mean about not messing with the CFLAGS? I mean I had only ever used that one setting taken from the example in /usr/share/examples/etc/make.conf, and the only experimentation i did is either with it in make.conf, or nothing at all. Do mean its proper not to have it at all in /etc/make.conf or about changing it's values? At the moment my /etc/make.conf just has 1 line with the Perl version entry, should i always leave cflags out? thanks, From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 15:19:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E4B106566B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:19:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy1.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E9808FC08 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:19:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 27845 invoked by uid 0); 28 Mar 2012 15:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2012 15:19:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=39lPjzCI14AaNOLBYQ0GyEd3pszuvo+XfNBKX/ekgLo=; b=goYHwrJx3TqbY28SRJQOsfh8ORN+XEC4q2SEsKEK+G3T6PyXPytbqnLGpREOJDJYoBLtrg21Wf8tnumukr/7KPY50Ly7bNcACDAzIEjFa5eWtarCdFwi31LMZShXFc9c; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SCufC-0008Qv-QR for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:19:54 -0600 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:19:54 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120328151954.GA13609@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:19:57 -0000 On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:05:19PM -1000, Open Slate wrote: > > I position a tablet as a consumer device. Web surfing, watching video, a > little texting. A student slate must support creativity, especially > writing. At the same time I see the qwerty keyboard as an obstacle, hard to > learn, impossible to use while holding the slate. I want HWR as good as the > Newton, and buttons for a chording keyboard along the bottom on both sides. > Buttons support two handed use or one handed, either side. For those who > prefer classic keyboard, plug in a USB model. I think learning a chording keyboard is going to be much more of an obstacle than using a QWERTY keyboard, considering you can hunt-and-peck on a QWERTY keyboard, but you have to know the chords to do anything on a chording keyboard. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 15:30:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 362C41065672 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF70C8FC18 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:30:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2SFUgMo044840; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:30:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q2SFUfPa044837; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:30:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:30:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: icemac In-Reply-To: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:30:42 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:30:43 -0000 On Wed, 28 Mar 2012, icemac wrote: > I only ever had this option set > > CFLAGS= -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe Setting that in make.conf is counterproductive. First, those are the defaults, so they don't improve anything. Second, that overrides settings made elsewhere. Consider a port like Gimp, which wants to use special CFLAGS for better performance. But it can't, because make.conf forces those CFLAGS. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 16:39:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03703106566B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:39:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from icemaca@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A00C8FC1D for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:39:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so1479245bkc.13 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:39:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TmkpLRkkeVQGrQP2MzVip2as/l+cxInU18gL2rEzuwo=; b=UAFMSCjGUrllzxW5V9dmPlkY8MU5TDkMGZzdB2kIOCXhkZBYzoMMdP8+ktZhieHPZ+ Qbpq6IYHIKMZyYmDAASedA6LRqph/nd97QO13jY3ZYnxcu2oW4bMvhkr/CReDc7DZCrI 4uJ60u6IiJxzieiMspvCjCgHNGYRha1Vz0vgosPZfayR6oJVzukxnHhKVNDVZLdSHvtL VXJmwQnqz5UuAMjwhbwoLe/kySFFEpkW9c7rKBpiNuA3ll0P6W09M99uIYfz0t5bTRZy 86uYn9/UNcCmM41Qzn5J+ZeLjPe4eJcPsEmyuhI7rhnDAuUFbI+81ON7XIzUExExz4+y +nWg== Received: by 10.204.151.81 with SMTP id b17mr6239437bkw.17.1332952795226; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.102] ([85.232.210.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v2sm7794074bki.7.2012.03.28.09.39.53 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F733ED8.6080008@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:39:52 +0200 From: icemac User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111228 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:39:57 -0000 On 03/28/12 17:30, Warren Block wrote: > On Wed, 28 Mar 2012, icemac wrote: > >> I only ever had this option set >> >> CFLAGS= -O2 -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe > > Setting that in make.conf is counterproductive. First, those are the > defaults, so they don't improve anything. > > Second, that overrides settings made elsewhere. Consider a port like > Gimp, which wants to use special CFLAGS for better performance. But > it can't, because make.conf forces those CFLAGS. > Ok, thanks. i had misunderstood the procedure then. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 16:52:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D152106564A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:52:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9C58FC1A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:52:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:fa1e:dfff:feda:c0bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2SGqoBH007598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:52:50 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q2SGqoBH007598 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q2SGqoBH007598; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4F7341E1.8010407@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:52:49 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> <4F7322E8.1040502@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4F7322E8.1040502@gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig2AC0099E965BB7D778F003A6" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:52:59 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig2AC0099E965BB7D778F003A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 28/03/2012 15:40, icemac wrote: > Thanks for your quick reply, but can you clarify what you mean about no= t > messing with the CFLAGS? > I mean I had only ever used that one setting taken from the example in > /usr/share/examples/etc/make.conf, and the only experimentation i did i= s > either with it in make.conf, or nothing at all. Modifying CFLAGS like that is something that sounds attractive; an easy win in making your system perform better. However, you should ask yourself if it's really such a good idea, then why isn't it already the default? I can tell you that if there weren't some significant downsides to maxing out the optimization levels, then that would certainly be the case. In actuality, the optimization level (-O2, etc) has an inconsistent effect and is very much dependent on the nature of the code being compiled. In fact, for the FreeBSD kernel specifically it is known that it can be counter-productive. Much of the time for ports, it doesn't really make a great deal of difference what the setting is. Ports that can benefit will frequently have OPTIONS to turn up the optimization level, to be set on a per-port basis. One of the few things that is known to have a generally beneficial effect is to set the CPUTYPE variable appropriately. You can just say: CPUTYPE=3Dnative and the compiler will work out exactly what CPU you have automatically. The downside, of course, is that you make anything compiled on your system specific to particular CPU variants, so it's not something that could be done for software intended to be generally installable anywhere.= > Do mean its proper not to have it at all in /etc/make.conf or about > changing it's values? Setting CFLAGS is not really improper, but it is not the panacea many people seem to think it is. It takes patience, plenty of trial and error, a deep understanding of compilers and so forth to achieve much. > At the moment my /etc/make.conf just has 1 line with the Perl version > entry, should i always leave cflags out? I think that not setting CLFAGS would be sensible. There's plenty of other stuff you can fiddle with in /etc/make.conf or /etc/src.conf if that's what interests you. OTOH, the default settings are pretty good and leaving well alone will help you get a put together a stable and reliable system without excessive pain. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enig2AC0099E965BB7D778F003A6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk9zQeIACgkQ8Mjk52CukIywhgCgh6lYH7F8+sWt3ybWrbgPOW+v Bg4AnA3qkkQkEQI5uugZf3AtcgJGfF1M =vTmA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig2AC0099E965BB7D778F003A6-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 17:35:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B44106566C for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:35:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from icemaca@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C371A8FC17 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:35:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so1555615bkc.13 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:35:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cKfxDkrbwmAR/89f5CSsQawdOb47yMEnzudldxcfuRg=; b=ihWkupZ4Eup0w38sGoV9t2mQqGMfW97KzqLTeobvOnOZD2GsYBIjAtE1+1sWqqSwIF RrCanz0QtIw8TTK6UAzKHUvvfVamRWt4WJXrATE+XesQ4HM6Ft95DdaaKotQZZEkmGkp j9valr7a8FbwGucpPpOMV/y0R+uPI4xn6k+jQQI2IJSBOwRzYw+Nqx6sqmxc4zt6JcO/ zu97Eqm7p5WqS4m/NKEcyVgrjLsyNm5kOr7QHcfbdkpVhdspKu7YfyUte38RZDD+bVob laY/U8KMX03/wbN9AZ4xVRMR62ZnJ1tBPqtt5uU0qKCGWGMlR1mKxKY7ew/7qJFhkmot UOXw== Received: by 10.204.12.10 with SMTP id v10mr2961923bkv.1.1332956122567; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.102] ([85.232.210.115]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jr13sm8055974bkb.14.2012.03.28.10.35.20 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F734BD7.8090607@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:35:19 +0200 From: icemac User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111228 Thunderbird/9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> <4F7322E8.1040502@gmail.com> <4F7341E1.8010407@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F7341E1.8010407@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:35:24 -0000 On 03/28/12 18:52, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 28/03/2012 15:40, icemac wrote: >> At the moment my /etc/make.conf just has 1 line with the Perl version >> entry, should i always leave cflags out? > I think that not setting CLFAGS would be sensible. There's plenty of > other stuff you can fiddle with in /etc/make.conf or /etc/src.conf if > that's what interests you. OTOH, the default settings are pretty good > and leaving well alone will help you get a put together a stable and > reliable system without excessive pain. > > Cheers, > > Matthew > Ok, i get it now thanks to these replies. I wasn't after fiddling or optimizing much and just want to to build ports i need and have them as reliable and stable as possibile, but i misunderstood the function of that setting in make.conf. I actually had thought that that was required and in turn assumed, ( in retrospect) , that the defaults would be more aggressive and that that setting would restrict any wild optimization. also didnt realize it was an override to all. thanks. p.s. So this was probably the reason for my flakey setups? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 20:59:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1538E1065670; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:59:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F4C8FC12; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:59:49 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=8KJ1nhaGAeZ3zrt0SBSXxjlRFNgvWZ5qUOX/5vh4Uoc=; b=LN3CgwjVYcrhf7xeK5wrLB0JQhckdgP0XXAXW6Cws7QEQFpi/qZsOqhGtiKmHi99ezSS1Yf/OQID+fCsc0U7lomg4/BhCuj7nwy2417i6d+sasSQwO5B8jRZbdU+ZNWc; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SCzy8-000CnR-I4; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:59:49 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1332968382-20726-20725/5/7; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:59:42 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:59:42 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.0 Cc: Subject: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:59:50 -0000 Alright guys, I'm at the end of my rope here. For those that haven't seen my previous emails here's the (not so) quick breakdown: Overview: FreeBSD ?? - 7.4 never crash FreeBSD 8.0 - 8.2 crashes FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested (Sorry, not possible in our production at this time, and we were hoping we could base some stuff on 8.3 for long term stability...) ESXi: Confirmed ESXi 4.0 - 5.0 has this problem. Haven't tested on others. History: Over the course of the last 2 years we've been banging our heads on the wall. VMWare is done debugging this. They claim it's not a VMWare issue. They can't identify what the heck happens. We had a glimmer of hope with ESXi 5.0 fixing it because we never saw any crashes in the handful of deployments, but our dreams were crushed today -- two days before an outage to begin migration to ESXi 5.0 -- when a customer's ESXi 5.0 server and FreeBSD 8.2 guest crashed. Crash Details: The keyboard/mouse usually stops responding for input on the console; normally we can't type in a username or password. However, we can switch VTs. If there's a shell on the console and we can type, we can only run things in memory. Any time we try to access the disk it will hang indefinitely. The server still has network access. We can ping it without issue. SSH of course kicks you out because it can't do any I/O. If we were to serve a lightweight http server off a memory backed filesystem I'm confident it would run just fine as long as it wasn't logging or anything. On ESXi you see that there is a CPU spike of 100% that goes on indefinitely. No idea what the FreeBSD OS itself thinks it is doing because we can't run top during the crash. This crash can affect a server and happen multiple times a week. It can also not show up for 180 days or more. But it does happen. The server can be 100% idle and crash. We have servers that do more I/O than the ones that crash could ever attempt to do and these don't crash at all. Completely inexplicable. Things we've looked into: Nothing about the installed software matters. We've tried cross referencing the crashed servers by the programs they run but the base OS is the only common denominator due to the wide variety of servers it has affected. Storage doesn't matter. We've tried different iSCSI SANs, we've tried different switches, we've tried local datastores on the ESXi servers themselves. HP servers, Dell servers -- doesn't seem to matter either. (All with latest firmwares, BIOSes, etc) VMWare gave us a ton of debugging tasks, and we've given them gigabytes of debugging info and data; they can't find anything. VMWare tools -- with, without, using open-vm-tools makes no difference. I think we've done a fair job ruling out VMWare. I think we've finally found enough data that this is definitely something in the FreeBSD world. I'm going to begin prepping some of the known crashy servers with more debugging. Any suggestions on what I should build the kernel with? They never do a proper panic, but I definitely want to at least *try* to get into the debugger the next time it crashes. And when it crashes, what the heck should I be running? I've never played with the KDB before... Thank you for any suggestions and help you can give me.... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 23:24:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D471A106567B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:24:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from thought.org (plato.thought.org [209.180.213.209]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82128FC08 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:24:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by thought.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8F5DAE80614; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:24:51 -0700 From: Gary Kline To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120328232451.GB22958@thought.org> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <20120328151954.GA13609@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120328151954.GA13609@hemlock.hydra> Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. Of_Interest: With 25 years of service to the Unix community. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:24:57 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:19:54AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:19:54 -0600 > From: Chad Perrin > Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:05:19PM -1000, Open Slate wrote: > > > > I position a tablet as a consumer device. Web surfing, watching video, a > > little texting. A student slate must support creativity, especially > > writing. At the same time I see the qwerty keyboard as an obstacle, hard to > > learn, impossible to use while holding the slate. I want HWR as good as the > > Newton, and buttons for a chording keyboard along the bottom on both sides. > > Buttons support two handed use or one handed, either side. For those who > > prefer classic keyboard, plug in a USB model. > > I think learning a chording keyboard is going to be much more of an > obstacle than using a QWERTY keyboard, considering you can hunt-and-peck > on a QWERTY keyboard, but you have to know the chords to do anything on a > chording keyboard. > i dont have a clue what a chording keybd is; will google after a long nap1 also, i have lost track of who posted the 'fentek' page, but that is where i got my present mine. i v much like this vivaldi 7" tablet, just as-is. i wonder if a future 7inch model could have more memory Along with a "slide-in" kybd. slide out and work: edit, use ffox, konsole or xterms, then slide back in place. this tablet could replace the ipad, nook, asus. > -- > Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Mar 28 23:31:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F0D4106566B; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:31:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f182.google.com (mail-gx0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08C138FC17; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:31:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnk4 with SMTP id k4so1404121ggn.13 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:31:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=1Ip4r1cb8u+Wb0t3PZzy/VB+ZEJ2ye/i0MpqylcB+mc=; b=KTHB/7mdb51aLnCUxrJGeqKlRsccRBHJolgi4cNHCSo6M34SFFiQ3cahbjV7c/tVbV 3d+0r4XgNl6TwZ72+p9McKJ8WVW28GSHi58ab8IyNzmEE5xQ9BlS76xknhFGKrjjrEH9 M9HHRj4aEUJS7SsHtiqhig1W6T4AMZyVpXXXkxXRCOB6jh1nQMGyudaXvWvxJrEuP5Ta 3U/2n5Qrg6vov0Z5QukTZkw5YSQYxB7SMASr1g39bn4vMXmA6mW0NPUJWYe7s9swHUSS mB3AJLYW1oZi8kR03S1pVmSEapXZjzu0EEstglMFnPSUkmHIVOtpdfkoDW7Rwt1gH2wU Ozcw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.240.135 with SMTP id wa7mr518086pbc.7.1332977499034; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.33.5 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:31:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:31:38 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: lTqAiQP5uyDsguC_T2A8DbL3tpE Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:31:40 -0000 Hi, * have you filed a PR? * is the crash easily reproducable? * are you able to boot some ramdisk-only FreeBSD-8.2 images (eg create a ramdisk image using nanobsd?) and do some stress testing inside that? It sounds like you've established it's a storage issue, or at least interrupt handling for storage issue. So I'd definitely try the ramdisk-only boot and thrash it using lighttpd/httperf or something. If that survives fine, I'd look at trying to establish whether there's something wrong in the disk driver(s) freebsd is using. I'm not that cluey on ESXi, but there may be some PIC/APIC/ACPI change between 7.x and 8.0 which has caused this to surface. 2c, Adrian From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 00:24:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F55106566C for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:24:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from oproxy3-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy3.bluehost.com [IPv6:2605:dc00:100:2::a3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4616F8FC0C for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:24:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 20559 invoked by uid 0); 29 Mar 2012 00:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by oproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2012 00:24:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apotheon.com; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=Hs/s72llg5wJoXDxsaNj5JEQUQhfWLO6tt2rmg3YUpc=; b=JOGjBY1jGJ6knVsukFsNt1wWPwB7HDbMXo8VKz/IDKqjKWsWvzhk8mSgNDGFh3NeQ6fPxf08TfIQuGfk3ieIMDDRx9RT71nsgLymX807NvpCuGeJKPekKp/cG59CEcOR; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=localhost) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1SD3AO-0006df-GV for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:24:40 -0600 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:24:40 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120329002440.GA9313@hemlock.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <20120328151954.GA13609@hemlock.hydra> <20120328232451.GB22958@thought.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120328232451.GB22958@thought.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.com} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with perrin@apotheon.com} Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:24:41 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 04:24:51PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:19:54AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > > I think learning a chording keyboard is going to be much more of an > > obstacle than using a QWERTY keyboard, considering you can hunt-and-peck > > on a QWERTY keyboard, but you have to know the chords to do anything on a > > chording keyboard. > > i dont have a clue what a chording keybd is; will google > after a long nap1 also, i have lost track of who posted the > 'fentek' page, but that is where i got my present mine. A chording keyboard is a keyboard or other button-press interface with fewer keys so it can fit on a smaller device, where many keycodes are gotten by way of combining presses of multiple keys rather than a single key as on a standard QWERTY keyboard. Thus, for instance, where on a QWERTY keyboard you get a capital A by holding the Shift key and pressing the A key, you might on a chording keyboard also get a lower-case A by holding down some key and pressing another key. This works for keyboards with fewer keys because there are many potential combinations of keys that could be used; if all keycodes are achieved by a two-button "chord", all the keys on a standard 101-key keyboard, plus all Alt-, Shift-, and Ctrl-chord keycodes, could be simulated by a mere twenty keys. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 00:54:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EA55106564A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:54:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fish.kungfu@yandex.ru) Received: from forward14.mail.yandex.net (forward14.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:801::4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A605E8FC19 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:54:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from web151.yandex.ru (web151.yandex.ru [95.108.131.164]) by forward14.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 1A02E1982C68 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:54:00 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1332982441; bh=OBzCAXMpoyPfnvqc1ItcSNBflg1/TaFmfGN0SKoszf8=; h=From:To:In-Reply-To:Subject:MIME-Version:Message-Id:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type; b=KQdd3uJv482pnsniWtHFlP78tEkIUhyxwecpRtzMcBRlBJFj44CKzXyYm5T7K9j40 MX+mhAw2E1WhLrSUdM/nAIQcq/aPyvDqIyx4Y0ihoYwuij7qqfmpzwSJ9p9AK8YjwV MliicDAgkNnON8rFE41BN0yc/fKqVQeZwEJBXZfs= Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by web151.yandex.ru (Yandex) with ESMTP id B871B6F18013; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:54:00 +0400 (MSK) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1332982440; bh=OBzCAXMpoyPfnvqc1ItcSNBflg1/TaFmfGN0SKoszf8=; h=From:To:In-Reply-To:Subject:MIME-Version:Message-Id:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type; b=njhToviomBrYlevqbD81oXh8O8Tp0uuJfdwO9XD3ypRXoMfffwhiCGWR/+cVOJsGz pfNhpoa9AY0XkZ3QP4oBvRAVvlr0owxKoJaMYMkEBPJ1tIbvjTwUB241sp/UcYuOfE P3g+z5hIY1iumX9+SaH+plMCv7HJzciZ9+jIoVsQ= Received: from adsl-068-159-116-104.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net (adsl-068-159-116-104.sip.gsp.bellsouth.net [68.159.116.104]) by web151.yandex.ru with HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:54:00 +0400 From: fish.kungfu@yandex.ru To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <20120329002440.GA9313@hemlock.hydra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <250801332982440@web151.yandex.ru> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:54:00 -0500 X-Mailer: Yamail [ http://yandex.ru ] 5.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:54:03 -0000 The Twiddler 2.1 keyboard is a good example of a chorded keyboard. It became popular with wearable computers where the user wore a heads-up augmented reality type display. Cheers...Fish 28.03.12, 19:25, "Chad Perrin" ": > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 04:24:51PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:19:54AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > > > > I think learning a chording keyboard is going to be much more of an > > > obstacle than using a QWERTY keyboard, considering you can hunt-and-peck > > > on a QWERTY keyboard, but you have to know the chords to do anything on a > > > chording keyboard. > > > > i dont have a clue what a chording keybd is; will google > > after a long nap1 also, i have lost track of who posted the > > 'fentek' page, but that is where i got my present mine. > > A chording keyboard is a keyboard or other button-press interface with > fewer keys so it can fit on a smaller device, where many keycodes are > gotten by way of combining presses of multiple keys rather than a single > key as on a standard QWERTY keyboard. Thus, for instance, where on a > QWERTY keyboard you get a capital A by holding the Shift key and pressing > the A key, you might on a chording keyboard also get a lower-case A by > holding down some key and pressing another key. This works for keyboards > with fewer keys because there are many potential combinations of keys > that could be used; if all keycodes are achieved by a two-button "chord", > all the keys on a standard 101-key keyboard, plus all Alt-, Shift-, and > Ctrl-chord keycodes, could be simulated by a mere twenty keys. > > -- > Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Sent from Yandex.Mail for mobile: http://m.ya.ru/ymail From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 01:34:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088DF106566B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:34:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adminbdc@smarters.pl) Received: from srv-ip20.balticdatacenter.pl (srv-ip20.balticdatacenter.pl [91.206.179.20]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962248FC0A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:34:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from apache by srv-ip20.balticdatacenter.pl with local (Exim 4.73) (envelope-from ) id 1SD3r2-0001cj-DZ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:08:44 +0200 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-PHP-Script: smarters.pl/panel/templates_c/mail.php for 80.237.234.132 From: service paypal active Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:08:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: IMPORTANT - Your PayPal Billing Information Records Are Out Of Date X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:34:48 -0000 PayPal ______________________________________________________________________ _____________ We need your help Dear Customer, We need your help resolving an issue with your account. 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PayPal Email ID PP1478 References 1. http://www.paypal.com.cgi.bin.webscr.cmd.login.submit.dispatch.c0db1f8e263663d3faee8d4026841ac68a446f69dad17fb2afeca3.tanyaolsen.co.za/active/ 2. https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/helpweb?cmd=_help 3. https://www.paypal.com/us/security From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 01:45:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98551065670 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:45:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike.jeays@rogers.com) Received: from nm10-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm10-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.91.198]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A79A8FC18 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.91.62] by nm10.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 01:45:03 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.86] by tm2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 01:45:03 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1023.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 01:45:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 858501.46481.bm@omp1023.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 14893 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2012 01:45:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wJ0F+wyjqpveD5xGwNw4ggRkNebKQvaAMbGF/IrpHAktjEFW+SFWX5mDyXBeb2tuiNZfJd7qmQKySvZ20NS70Qe2iSiQCd7lc6vGAE5yC29HkN1NqtAN3uGFNzMRjvSLI73IuKg3cZ3FtMqZsStE+qtMZSGW4Or8TWM1AaQ3vG8= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1332985503; bh=ryXTYq8USHUvhbfvDDoFsWcetsvQkEQYxf6RZnKd0k8=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4X4r8arHArDh+mkLtAuea10bURabXHkqvgOGkA+TA3CCoiUxnyAl1Q7v+71rrHPw8WIgULhX4qpyPDitbFgS0gn/I0kQYZgxv7YmEORkwPDi2OYm3hUghCeNKk06zokUVYGPvwcMDgXlYPJgk1zBhupbT1DRI6eYGOdlyr6Nlmw= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: om2eGOcVM1nnuezDkarm1TwSqjPxkRXlBMHzdZPZh_U585d BCW1Iw3MXgypD.5L4T7q9Lo.FizYchPnhmbiH.K6AcTuSTYF4UIWXm9W3Xu8 xtbindZXZiiUk4Ub1F9lsRZsx0xRi23JY9oBxTCsE7elgkBo1y4SPblGVtRm bXKIqeN7mhXFHe2K_AxoRcdrG7.I8ReWtkOQoU8b0ueM4HgjS9sGKAg2ScPv hq7ZZQtVQbxZrX49kLpBvK5DtQtx7Smn0kKB.cmxkl0g0NqzJ5R3lxYqR.fL vVs0fgKanVEGy8mJTbFFdV4UlnGuOBz2m5UvepaZtPOEcmMccXUJz1samrLh dAI0oy.CPPaKj2W0xZy2Mg7rQBrjvXuQP14LxozgrNogeHNkyO6skcCn.dHm SDuYqezosyBk1gPoYk0aubAg3ZPzPRhXoCUn9z_E3pbhfL0rjESZGzYKkN_a H344cA2IjXZgytxlQPOqrGoTch3x5edg0mHzpxbQRheB3SfA- X-Yahoo-SMTP: N82WFx6swBBjwcHWPFR2CGt6udzA8RPrA.xm0enFFXaK2g-- Received: from europa (mike.jeays@99.224.68.20 with login) by smtp105.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2012 18:45:03 -0700 PDT Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:45:01 -0400 From: Mike Jeays To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120328214501.1e1b04cc@europa> In-Reply-To: <20120329002440.GA9313@hemlock.hydra> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <20120328151954.GA13609@hemlock.hydra> <20120328232451.GB22958@thought.org> <20120329002440.GA9313@hemlock.hydra> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.24.4; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:45:04 -0000 On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:24:40 -0600 Chad Perrin wrote: > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 04:24:51PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 09:19:54AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > > > > > > I think learning a chording keyboard is going to be much more of an > > > obstacle than using a QWERTY keyboard, considering you can hunt-and-peck > > > on a QWERTY keyboard, but you have to know the chords to do anything on a > > > chording keyboard. > > > > i dont have a clue what a chording keybd is; will google > > after a long nap1 also, i have lost track of who posted the > > 'fentek' page, but that is where i got my present mine. > > A chording keyboard is a keyboard or other button-press interface with > fewer keys so it can fit on a smaller device, where many keycodes are > gotten by way of combining presses of multiple keys rather than a single > key as on a standard QWERTY keyboard. Thus, for instance, where on a > QWERTY keyboard you get a capital A by holding the Shift key and pressing > the A key, you might on a chording keyboard also get a lower-case A by > holding down some key and pressing another key. This works for keyboards > with fewer keys because there are many potential combinations of keys > that could be used; if all keycodes are achieved by a two-button "chord", > all the keys on a standard 101-key keyboard, plus all Alt-, Shift-, and > Ctrl-chord keycodes, could be simulated by a mere twenty keys. > > -- > Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I saw a demo of a device about 30 years ago that you held in one hand. It had about five buttons positioned under your fingers, and various combinations would produce all the regular characters. They claimed you could learn to use it in a few hours, and would be as fast as a typist. It didn't survive, and I can't remember what it was called. I thought it was a great invention - shows how wrong one can be. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 02:18:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0C8106564A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:18:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from mail.monochrome.org (b4.ebbed1.client.atlantech.net [209.190.235.180]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5468FC15 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:18:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([192.168.1.11]) by mail.monochrome.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2T1n883034622; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:49:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:49:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Hill To: Mike Jeays In-Reply-To: <20120328214501.1e1b04cc@europa> Message-ID: References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <20120328151954.GA13609@hemlock.hydra> <20120328232451.GB22958@thought.org> <20120329002440.GA9313@hemlock.hydra> <20120328214501.1e1b04cc@europa> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:18:28 -0000 On Wed, 28 Mar 2012, Mike Jeays wrote: > I saw a demo of a device about 30 years ago that you held in one hand. > It had about five buttons positioned under your fingers, and various > combinations would produce all the regular characters. Sounds like learning to play the saxophone. -- Chris Hill chris@monochrome.org ** [ Busy Expunging ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 04:02:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6571065673 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:02:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C5E8FC1B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:02:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2T42Dub047950; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q2T42DjP047947; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:02:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: icemac In-Reply-To: <4F734BD7.8090607@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <4F731B60.7020207@gmail.com> <4F7322E8.1040502@gmail.com> <4F7341E1.8010407@FreeBSD.org> <4F734BD7.8090607@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:02:13 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 04:02:14 -0000 On Wed, 28 Mar 2012, icemac wrote: > I wasn't after fiddling or optimizing much and just want to to build ports i > need and have them as reliable and stable as possibile, but i misunderstood > the function of that setting in make.conf. > > I actually had thought that that was required and in turn assumed, ( in > retrospect) , that the defaults would be more aggressive and that that > setting would restrict any wild optimization. > > also didnt realize it was an override to all. > > thanks. > > p.s. So this was probably the reason for my flakey setups? Possible but unlikely. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 07:36:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [69.147.83.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C0EA106566B; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:36:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E60C414E828; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:36:49 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F741111.6050501@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:36:49 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Felder References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:36:50 -0000 On 3/28/2012 1:59 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested As much as I'm sensitive to your production requirements, realistically it's not likely that you'll get a helpful result without testing a newer version. 8.2 came out over a year ago, many many things have changed since then. Doug From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 07:53:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA15106566B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:53:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283D48FC1B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:53:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SDAAn-0003AL-IP for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:53:33 +0200 Received: from pool-173-79-99-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.79.99.96]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:53:33 +0200 Received: from nightrecon by pool-173-79-99-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:53:33 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Michael Powell Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:53:33 -0400 Lines: 57 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-79-99-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: nightrecon@hotmail.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:53:43 -0000 Mark Felder wrote: > Alright guys, I'm at the end of my rope here. For those that haven't seen > my previous emails here's the (not so) quick breakdown: > > Overview: > > FreeBSD ?? - 7.4 never crash > FreeBSD 8.0 - 8.2 crashes > FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested (Sorry, not possible in our > production at this time, and we were hoping we could base some stuff on > 8.3 for long term stability...) > ESXi: Confirmed ESXi 4.0 - 5.0 has this problem. Haven't tested on others. > [snip] > > > I think we've finally found enough data that this is definitely something > in the FreeBSD world. I'm going to begin prepping some of the known crashy > servers with more debugging. Any suggestions on what I should build the > kernel with? They never do a proper panic, but I definitely want to at > least *try* to get into the debugger the next time it crashes. And when it > crashes, what the heck should I be running? I've never played with the KDB > before... > > > Thank you for any suggestions and help you can give me.... I am definitely out of my league here and this is way over my head, to be sure. Just a couple of shots in the dark for possibly covering a couple more data points for your research. And I am a tad fuzzy on both as I have never needed to dig into either because I've not had any trouble with either. IIRC there are three different timer subsystems one may choose from. You may want to look into expirementation with each of the three, just to see if this changes any observed behaviors. Or to possibly rule it out. Your situation sounds like a candidate for reverse logic - if I can't get any handle on what's wrong I start at the opposite end and try to make a list of what is "right" in an attempt to leave a smaller subset to probe. I also think this most likely has nothing to do with what's happening, but for some reason it just pops into my head. Try disabling msi in /boot/loader.conf like this: hw.pci.enable_msi="0" hw.pci.enable_msix="0" At least if it makes no difference maybe this will exclude it from being a 'possible'. Developers who are more in-depth aware of what the differences are between 7.x and 8.x/9.x in the development timeline can probably provide a better picture so as to narrow the field of what to look at. This is way over my head, just wish I could help - I know and have experienced the kind of quandary you have here (I feel for you). :-) -Mike From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 08:02:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355A01065672 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:02:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9871E8FC12 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:02:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FBED0D.dip.t-dialin.net [217.251.237.13]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q2T7gxx8018764 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:43:00 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2T7gndP019693 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:42:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2T7ghMc070852 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:42:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201203290742.q2T7ghMc070852@fire.js.berklix.net> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:22:03 CDT." Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:42:43 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Subject: Re: need info builing ports properly X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:02:02 -0000 Mark Felder wrote: > My second suggestion is to please never ever ever mess with CFLAGS on > FreeBSD. You can get away with it on some Linux distros, but FreeBSD > strongly discourages it. Not true. eg I've set various CFLAGS for years. What FreeBSD requires is if one sets either CFLAGS or env vars then experiences problems, one should Unset them & try again before reporting bugs. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 10:41:44 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C8F106564A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:41:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from duckbreath@yahoo.com) Received: from nm33-vm3.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm33-vm3.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.239.203]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 966C18FC0A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:41:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.214.32] by nm33.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 10:41:38 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.223] by tm15.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 10:41:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1032.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2012 10:41:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 889293.50987.bm@omp1032.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 37822 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2012 10:41:37 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1333017697; bh=85hUXKINqJbMCE6hu1egaf0CfF1KmGimYkJQjC7XlRY=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tqXYIzLxqxDTNnja8pY9YXAaR28i6cBgxerzArL4NsPpsEwJHeorhVwDa5K6Ev4+zkjI5WzIOEaOZCnc7LP7h5TkxoyCLCUL75x9pOjMtho17KpT+mqsDLBPaj0YoXhtUNPH4lFDWrTjggP+GuVOU2z8MIyV8mgaLS2t4Jb7AgE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=q7VEbVoU1Lf0mlhWeO57txsoexVAdN6ULwdn6ak2GsOIGxCAvBkcF+7L45i37qVVyBxWxlI/0eeiKWETjQn4x4ELwF9oignpY+OpUCgs1jwmf93VO3ykkUw4eykOqfpdziKpsbs2zS18MH/BeVwahpCbDj1XN9kWRF2KFzw8oD8=; X-YMail-OSG: jz8f7VgVM1ndhUq.TiF6Z7ubF.2T5RflMKMcdfa53yIvEtF g.iyTkSi1yydWDrg4wFg9qLTO0i2EI94hI_cE47wbegpkqEdi.oRH4Kn1O8D 2xvk58.E_BpUpHoFLWWMDmArcHgn0VjX2t.m3FgiCq5wZZnygR1PvjySQ_4S N.QP0eXmaRtC7sgGGprO7CT4Iu5RlSi3ozCv9AXlPLhx1Qxb9wJM9pD28dYk bx.nBCHXlNVnHjMH.tRVQS46lVCdAfU2RcD3PJARDJYV4UAAerGfBkbOlNxY upsXGIPdHjnQOvN.cwXidXuOw0ZD8CYkATHpgYXI3FYS7Ctj5AyaKrA0C8KM ozHOX1Ka9eqgQBNA2wX8WkEwIIB80orSaAKUQc5PK.95Oyq843KjjD.l7hJL Op0Y0V0GqC1u0GbqcUKchJb.qhVen4q92zbGIb5QPhCVbWTXjM8AMYbiOMjE eVcTPVAP5wAi9KY4rlNXRchFujKvv Received: from [207.154.100.163] by web161502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:41:37 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.117.340979 Message-ID: <1333017697.13467.YahooMailNeo@web161502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:41:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Duckbreath To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: How to suppress PAM/sshd root login warnings? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Duckbreath List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:41:45 -0000 My system has root login via sshd disabled, and it is going to stay disable= d.=0A=0AI don't care if the whole of the entire internet tries to login as = root, because:=0A=0ARoot login is disabled.=0A=0AHowever, syslog likes to p= rint little warnings on my console, and in my auth.log, everytime some bot = tries.=0AI would like to disable the displaying and logging of these messag= es.=A0 Login attempts on non-root accounts are of interest to me, so I don'= t want to disable those messages; I only want to disable messages in which = the attempt is the root user, because:=0A=0ARoot login is disabled.=0A=0ATh= ere is no way I am going to ban all the bots, forget that.=A0 I'm not getti= ng pam_abl or some other auto-black list solution.=A0 Not going there.=A0 I= 'm OK with them trying, I just want to stop seeing the messages.=0A=0ACan a= nyone help me out with this? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 13:56:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355C3106566B; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:56:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF3648FC19; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:56:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=+6ASjC/RmnMRE2uUuT/vjGeoKDHxS+fN++4yds1bt0w=; b=Zxo5WDY3XmbsXrR5Ei71FCY/wCPwFXoIlbyY9Ct8r9PjSWCVtwIOWZssDov1JkqkDN82wFZFHzz7JTVLRXAD39HqsMo7dJ7LBz2htuQi98bnqmfve8HQGLg2dhxT95td; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDFpc-000EHe-H3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:56:09 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333029358-20726-20725/5/10; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:55:58 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:55:57 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:56:10 -0000 On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:31:38 -0500, Adrian Chadd wrote: > * have you filed a PR? No > * is the crash easily reproducable? Unfortunately not. It's totally random. Some servers will "get the bug" and crash daily, some will crash weekly, some might seem to be fine but 3 months later hit this crash. > * are you able to boot some ramdisk-only FreeBSD-8.2 images (eg create > a ramdisk image using nanobsd?) and do some stress testing inside > that? That's a plan I'd like to execute but my free time for building that environment is rather short at the moment :( > I'm not that > cluey on ESXi, but there may be some PIC/APIC/ACPI change between 7.x > and 8.0 which has caused this to surface. Was there a setting to revert ACPI behavior from 8.x to 7.x? I thought I read about that at one point.... or perhaps this was something available back in the dev cycle when 8 was -CURRENT. *shrug* I know 9.0 and onward has even more ACPI changes so assuming it truly is an ACPI bug I guess we could cross our fingers and hope that the bug has mysteriously vanished? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 13:58:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A41106566C; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:58:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D02C8FC08; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:58:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=/dsUITKdxSAfN/hLO6ieTu0ip1f+MQ4OUcyMb+jOJyA=; b=M9JQxVOb68kL2tEY/ZMBrD7vVzWu/oGUh7HQ2DvCpWqQGLBlTrC9lEkLXtYL3FnDbSsCfCxrXid/NTOJ9PG3MRw6gtn8Aan/dSjWRmXFuR/Ob4LijodNfSTrWuVSUZ83; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDFrY-000EHe-80; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:58:09 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333029483-20726-20725/5/11; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:58:03 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4F741111.6050501@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:58:02 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4F741111.6050501@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:58:09 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:36:49 -0500, Doug Barton wrote: > As much as I'm sensitive to your production requirements, realistically > it's not likely that you'll get a helpful result without testing a newer > version. 8.2 came out over a year ago, many many things have changed > since then. The sad part is that VMWare's "supported FreeBSD versions" are a joke, and we've been trying to keep VMWare happy by only running "supported versions". I honestly don't think they even test. It's so stupid. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 14:00:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52EA10656AA for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:00:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB2B8FC23 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:00:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:From:Mime-Version:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=0vBbKJpci2HTUQZs35aRE3kGXVB5KuaYUkA8wNXbo70=; b=p+eAHlTWrJtLIgytSU/RaxoALoitsL86SzNSqnE0tm8hg2ukGV+XLdKVVAanWWx80SGVLLJs8RMnzBB4X34kbQrdIiXkaoq3/1tojxn4PVk0QtMmDdGfVc7HKRm911oQ; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDFu6-000EHe-CT for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:00:47 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333029641-20726-20725/5/12; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:00:41 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:00:41 -0500 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:00:47 -0000 Thank you for the suggestion. We'll put it in our toolbox and see if it helps! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 14:03:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 672961065673; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:03:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF778FC1D; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:03:51 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=m2EKieDo7xd9C5Mwpp5xpJs3gZU6BVRUf050Sfd6fWE=; b=ATty4yVODN2ef0RPnYtfIRwTbUjVcYIArfRZSXTGAP7JAirIqfmP1yBLxWC/GKq4CTXUl4npUf10yElo/ZjG2GMSXIgCK6pTUQ9SShhDGa1Yq9hBkj20Z/O4+/H7UYz/; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDFx3-000EHe-CX; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:03:50 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333029824-20726-20725/5/13; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:03:44 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:03:44 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:03:51 -0000 Alright, new data. It happened to crash about 10 minutes after I came in this morning and I ran some stuff in the DDB. I have no idea what information is useful, but perhaps someone will see something out of the ordinary? http://feld.me/freebsd/esx_crash/ Thanks... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 14:16:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9395106564A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:16:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60E188FC15 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:16:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146B11E709; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:09:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2TE9MUB002013; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:09:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:09:22 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Gary Kline Message-Id: <20120329160922.0d577afb.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120328232451.GB22958@thought.org> References: <4F6FACB5.5030900@dichotomia.fr> <201203260021.q2Q0LpOF084377@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20120326154223.GA11501@hemlock.hydra> <4F70F6AD.4000107@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <4FAC8965-EF32-4857-BA8E-936B357DE308@mac.com> <4F7117D2.70405@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120327194017.GA22276@thought.org> <20120328151954.GA13609@hemlock.hydra> <20120328232451.GB22958@thought.org> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:16:47 -0000 On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:24:51 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > i dont have a clue what a chording keybd is; This kind of keyboard uses key combination of its FEWER keys to generate characters (or even syllables or words). The name "chorded" is used synonymously with instruments like the guitar where you use one hand to hold down certain strings in a defined manner, and then it plays a chord like A major or D minor. There's an initial article about it on WP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard This kind of keyboard is typically used by court recorders in the US. They are trained to record whole conversations in real time directly onto paper. By bressing three, four or more keys at a time, a specific output is generated by the device. It's often called stenotype, because it's like "typing in stenography", emphasizing that's a phonetic code in the foreground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Stenkeys.gif http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Steno-example.gif Also typewriters for blind persons use this approach. The model "Erika Picht Portable" (paper format DIN A5 I think) is still well known to me. There's also a regular (DIN A4) model, produced by Schreibmaschinenwerke Dresden (type- writer works Dresden), part of the combinate "robotron". Those machines are _stiill_ produced in Dresden. http://www.aph.org/museum/images/braillewriters/30.jpg http://petitmuseedubraille.free.fr/_machines-braille/images/_m15a.jpg http://www.gfai-sachsen.de/images/Erika-Picht_MultiTech-E511_800.jpg Input devices with comparable key layouts are also available for the PC, but instead of stenotype, they generate regular characters. > i v much like this vivaldi 7" tablet, just as-is. i wonder > if a future 7inch model could have more memory Along with a > "slide-in" kybd. slide out and work: edit, use ffox, > konsole or xterms, then slide back in place. this tablet > could replace the ipad, nook, asus. Interesting thought. Maybe it wouldn't target "home commodity users" in the first place, but a sliding keyboard could be a benefit for professional users who want to do more than just watching movies on such a thing. It would also help to bring the concept of separating input and output to the device in a "physical manner" (because it might be useful in certain conditions when your fingers aren't located at places where you are supposed to read something), and STILL keeping the regular touch interface (no real separation) available, intact and unbroken. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 14:41:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 926C31065670; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:41:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail1.sol.net (mail1.sol.net [206.55.64.72]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E0328FC15; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:41:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail1.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2TDgggZ045118; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:42:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2TDggoG079149; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:42:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203291342.q2TDggoG079149@aurora.sol.net> To: adrian@freebsd.org (Adrian Chadd) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:42:42 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:41:07 -0000 > Hi, > > * have you filed a PR? > * is the crash easily reproducable? > * are you able to boot some ramdisk-only FreeBSD-8.2 images (eg create > a ramdisk image using nanobsd?) and do some stress testing inside > that? > > It sounds like you've established it's a storage issue, or at least > interrupt handling for storage issue. So I'd definitely try the > ramdisk-only boot and thrash it using lighttpd/httperf or something. > If that survives fine, I'd look at trying to establish whether there's > something wrong in the disk driver(s) freebsd is using. I'm not that > cluey on ESXi, but there may be some PIC/APIC/ACPI change between 7.x > and 8.0 which has caused this to surface. We've seen this. Or something that seems really like it. We run dozens of FreeBSD VM's, many of which are 8.mumble. We have a scripted build environment dating back many years, so generally servers come out in a fairly reproducible form. After several months of smooth running, we had need to shuffle some things around, and migrated some servers to a different datastore. Suddenly, one particular VM, our corp Jabber server, started randomly disconnecting people every morning. Some inspection showed that the machine was running, but disk I/O in the VM was freezing up. Subsequent inspection suggested that it was happening during the periodic daily, though we never managed to get it to happen by manually forcing periodic daily, so that's only a theory. Given that several times it appeared that one of the find commands was running, I was guessing that something in the thin provisioned disk image for the system had gone bad, but reading the entire disk with dd didn't cause a hang, running the periodic daily by hand didn't cause a hang, etc. Migrating the VM to a different host and datastore did not fix the issue. Migrating the VM from an Opteron to a Xeon host with all the latest ESXi 4 patches also didn't make any difference. Migrating the disk image from thin to full seemed to fix it, but I only gave it a day or two, then decided there were other good reasons to reload the VM, so I nuked the VM, which, of course, fixed it. In the meantime, a dozen other similar VM's alongside it run just fine. My conclusion was that it was something specific that had gone awry in the virtual machine, probably in the disk image, but I could not identify it without significant digging that I had no particular reason or inclination to do; since it appeared to be a VMware problem, the "reload it and be done with it" seemed the quickest path to resolution. That having been said, if anyone has any brilliant ideas about what would constitute useful further steps to isolate this, I can look at recovering the faulty VM from backup and seeing if it still exhibits the problem. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 14:59:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D44106566C; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:59:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe06.c2i.net [212.247.154.162]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951848FC12; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:59:47 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, BAYES_50 Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop002.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe06.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 255628664; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:59:38 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:58:16 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.3-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; ) References: <201203291342.q2TDggoG079149@aurora.sol.net> In-Reply-To: <201203291342.q2TDggoG079149@aurora.sol.net> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201203291658.16114.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Felder , Joe Greco Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:59:48 -0000 On Thursday 29 March 2012 15:42:42 Joe Greco wrote: > > Hi, Do both 32- and 64-bit versions of FreeBSD crash? --HPS From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 15:01:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B00291065673; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:01:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail2.sol.net (mail2.sol.net [206.55.64.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A7E28FC15; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:01:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail2.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2TE1pH9062147; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:01:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2TE1pLt079422; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:01:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203291401.q2TE1pLt079422@aurora.sol.net> To: dougb@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:01:51 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:01:10 -0000 > On 3/28/2012 1:59 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > > FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested > > As much as I'm sensitive to your production requirements, realistically > it's not likely that you'll get a helpful result without testing a newer > version. 8.2 came out over a year ago, many many things have changed > since then. > > Doug So you're saying that he should have been using 8.3-RELEASE, then. If you'll kindly go over to http://www.freebsd.org and look under "Latest Releases", please note that "8.2" is a production release. If you don't want it to be a production release, then find a way to make it so, but please don't snipe at people who are using the code that the FreeBSD project has indicated is a current production offering. There are many good reasons not to run arbitrary snapshots on your production gear. It's unrealistic to expect people to run non- RELEASE non-production code on their production gear. We can have that discussion if you don't understand that, drop me a note off- list and I'll be happy to explain it. Otherwise, you've told him to run a "newer version," of which NONE IS AVAILABLE, unless you're thinking 9.0, but FreeBSD has a rather catastrophic history of "point zero" releases, and most clueful admins won't run those in production without carefully measuring the risks and benefits. So you've basically told him to run a newer version without any such version being realistically available. WTF? You want people not to use releases that "came out over a year ago"? The generally sensible solution to that is to release RELEASEs more than once every fourteen or fifteen months. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 15:16:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B666F1065673; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:16:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC918FC12; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:16:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=QtNT9CuE7s3EECKHrPvEloB7i4+AF+5F1dVY17t037c=; b=XI6C1ZjXrFZniyUvTFwI7Zr3QJ4Oh1GIk6e/noywBZNGpFZAhSWKuyqvlotRVUh0OSE2a/iHE023yQmkXS2wiEDSnu+qh3mYYkEt2EvF28VQ5xCP9qzBA1sxuLhHYXOu; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDH55-000GOj-8d; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:16:13 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333034161-20726-20725/5/16; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:16:01 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <201203291342.q2TDggoG079149@aurora.sol.net> <201203291658.16114.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:16:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <201203291658.16114.hselasky@c2i.net> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:16:13 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:58:16 -0500, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > Do both 32- and 64-bit versions of FreeBSD crash? Correct, we see both i386 and amd64 flavors crash in the same way. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 15:35:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE2B1065674; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:35:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nec556@retena.com) Received: from resmaa13.ono.com (smtp13.ono.com [62.42.230.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2FA8FC16; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:35:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from GogPortatil.retena.com (95.20.242.150) by resmaa13.ono.com (8.5.113) (authenticated as nec556@retena.com) id 4EFDA606014D4793; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:29:55 +0200 Message-ID: <4EFDA606014D4793@> (added by postmaster@resmaa13.ono.com) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:31:24 +0200 To: Mark Felder From: Eduardo Morras In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 2012.0.1913 [2114/4902] Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:35:25 -0000 At 16:03 29/03/2012, you wrote: >Alright, new data. It happened to crash about 10 minutes after I came in >this morning and I ran some stuff in the DDB. I have no idea what >information is useful, but perhaps someone will see something out of the >ordinary? > > >http://feld.me/freebsd/esx_crash/ Don't know about ESXi but on others VM Managers i can change the chipset emulation from ICH10 to ICH4. Can you change it to an older chipset too? >Thanks... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 15:49:41 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8B0106566C; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:49:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail2.sol.net (mail2.sol.net [206.55.64.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4164E8FC18; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:49:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail2.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2TFnU5K063590; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:49:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2TFnUc7080406; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:49:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> To: hselasky@c2i.net (Hans Petter Selasky) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:49:30 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <201203291658.16114.hselasky@c2i.net> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:49:41 -0000 > On Thursday 29 March 2012 15:42:42 Joe Greco wrote: > > > Hi, > > Do both 32- and 64-bit versions of FreeBSD crash? We've only seen it happen on one virtual machine. That was a 32-bit version. And it's not so much a crash as it is a "disk I/O hang". The fact that it was happening regularly to that one VM, while a bunch of other similar VM's were running alongside it without any incident, along with the problem moving with the VM as it is moved from host to host and from Opteron to Xeon, strongly points at something being wrong with the VM itself. Our systems are built mostly by script; I rebuilt the VM a few months ago and the problem vanished. The rebuilt system "should" have been virtually identical to the original. I never actually compared them though. My working theory was that something bad had happened to the VM during a migration from one datastore to another. We have a really slow-writing iSCSI server that it had been migrated onto for a little bit, which was where the problem first appeared, I believe. At first I thought it was the nightly cron jobs just exceeding the iSCSI server's capacity to cope, so we migrated the VM onto a host with local datastores, and it remained broken thereafter. So my conclusion was that it seemed likely that somehow VMware's thin provisioned disk image had gotten fouled up, and under some unknown use case, it could be teased into locking up further I/O on the VM. I wasn't able to prove it. I tried a read-dd of the entire disk - passed, flying. I tried several things to duplicate the nightly periodic tasks where it seemed so prone to locking up. They all ran fine. But if I left the machine run, it'd do it again eventually. I explained it at the time to one of my VMware friends: > But here's where it gets weird. Three times, now, one VM - our Jabber > server - has gone wonky in the wee early AM hours. Disk I/O on the VM > just locks up. You can type at the console until it does I/O, so you > can put in "root" at the login: prompt but never get a pw prompt. My > systems all run "top" from /etc/ttys and I can see that a whole bunch > of processes are stopped in "getblk". It's like the iSCSI disk has gone > away, except it hasn't, since the other VM's are all happily churning > away, on the same datastore, on the same VMware host. http://www.sol.net/tmp/freebsd/freebsd-esxi-lockup.gif > Now it's *possible* that the problem actually happens after the 3AM cron > run (note slight CPU/memory drop) but the Jabber implosion actually > happens around 0530, see drop in memory%. But the root problem at the > VM level seems to be that disk I/O has frozen. I can't tell for sure when > that happens. All three instances are similar to this. > > I can't explain this or figure out how to debug it. Since it's locked up > right now, thought I'd ping you for ideas before resetting it. Now that was actually before we migrated it back to local datastore, but when we did, the problem remained, suggesting that whatever has happened to the VM, it is contained within the VM's vmdk or other files. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 15:57:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2602A1065676; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:57:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hselasky@c2i.net) Received: from swip.net (mailfe01.c2i.net [212.247.154.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4254F8FC19; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:57:06 +0000 (UTC) X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED Received: from [176.74.212.201] (account mc467741@c2i.net HELO laptop002.hselasky.homeunix.org) by mailfe01.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 258963190; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:56:59 +0200 From: Hans Petter Selasky To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:55:36 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.3-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; ) References: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> In-Reply-To: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> X-Face: 'mmZ:T{)),Oru^0c+/}w'`gU1$ubmG?lp!=R4Wy\ELYo2)@'UZ24N@d2+AyewRX}mAm; Yp |U[@, _z/([?1bCfM{_"B<.J>mICJCHAzzGHI{y7{%JVz%R~yJHIji`y>Y}k1C4TfysrsUI -%GU9V5]iUZF&nRn9mJ'?&>O MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Felder , Joe Greco Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:57:08 -0000 On Thursday 29 March 2012 17:49:30 Joe Greco wrote: > > On Thursday 29 March 2012 15:42:42 Joe Greco wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Do both 32- and 64-bit versions of FreeBSD crash? > > We've only seen it happen on one virtual machine. That was a 32-bit > version. And it's not so much a crash as it is a "disk I/O hang". It almost sounds like the lost interrupt issue I've seen with USB EHCI devices, though disk I/O should have a retry timeout? What does "wmstat -i" output? --HPS From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:10:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95796106564A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:10:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike.barnardq@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F2218FC0A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:10:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so2262771vbm.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:10:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=oSP4rWc++cZ6EAsycgTvC5fbEO3CmhAadQA/z/Lpy/8=; b=i+BoVWbOsL1ukC4lvgcdUlKKwj+iiTVpYVG2+TwxL/+mzApRB3vx+xtf6rRbk90LRX CBzdgxYvSWOVnXisvC+qo09psfsi8oWr66XvNi6k7XkAbEea0CemGSWmCba96rp4/pZj 3ZVR1rjjDXa2bpqdUGzd3NbNODNupOCJhISwxX7DAlgTdl5r647skmaI90k7aJGULYd6 Gc58aLJxKReu72GUaJJtlR6K8hbWtXTpBJpAS8tApXwuJr8JDSm3+LxJ92qiR0Z6Lw9V Uqek+gp0/kO8D4UrwLTYj31PAc9KYYMpFhJJN2Hh2ZcMWotcRv02gRBwhdBfwh9JvE3h 5+cQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.95.198 with SMTP id dm6mr1173090vdb.91.1333037448830; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.228.65 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:10:48 +0300 Message-ID: From: Mike Barnard To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: FreeBSD Stable Image X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:10:51 -0000 Hi, Any one know where I can get a FreeBSD-9.0-STABLE ISO/IMG image? ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ That path does not seem to have it. -- Mike Of course, you might discount this possibility, but remember that one in a million chances happen 99% of the time. ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:13:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3471065674; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:13:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F078FC27; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:13:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=2c0kHlszecUeXnBmcm+2Zra+4YlCwqf+DuwqwGygbqA=; b=X5ujxYo8/38i++eYwHZi6/ynmY4yVwC76h1WfWqU2IP/MStZFnxo8TjOvflEKhyBObARQEhR8VBpPMHH3OUJZRFziaMqVtvErRMT4xyUeX+dtcu9x56aqgCt+zCUIzZC; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDHTL-000H47-AC; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:41:11 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333035665-20726-20725/5/18; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:41:05 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:41:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Eduardo Morras Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:13:04 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:31:24 -0500, Eduardo Morras wrote: > > Don't know about ESXi but on others VM Managers i can change the chipset > emulation from ICH10 to ICH4. Can you change it to an older chipset too? Unfortunately there's no setting in the GUI for that but I'll keep looking to see if there's a hidden option -- perhaps in the VM's config file. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:18:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EACC1065677 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:18:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E5058FC1B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:18:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:fa1e:dfff:feda:c0bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TGIsuh000373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:18:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q2TGIsuh000373 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q2TGIsuh000373; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4F748B67.3020400@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:18:47 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Barnard References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig5027AD2015B3490F17D3E469" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Stable Image X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:18:59 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig5027AD2015B3490F17D3E469 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 29/03/2012 17:10, Mike Barnard wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Any one know where I can get a FreeBSD-9.0-STABLE ISO/IMG image? >=20 > ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ >=20 > That path does not seem to have it. >=20 ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/9.0/ Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enig5027AD2015B3490F17D3E469 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk90i24ACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxTpwCfXFWIQ9J6uWRjfhhusqBxKElh 29YAmQFK8cp8400iPxtkG/0Pj91npAKT =1n8H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig5027AD2015B3490F17D3E469-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:22:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB23106564A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:22:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD5E68FC12 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:fa1e:dfff:feda:c0bb]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TGMWTN000457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:22:32 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.5.0 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk q2TGMWTN000457 Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/q2TGMWTN000457; dkim=none (no signature); dkim-adsp=none Message-ID: <4F748C48.70507@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:22:32 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Barnard References: <4F748B67.3020400@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4F748B67.3020400@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigCA7A09B11CE7162DA3FECE7E" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Stable Image X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:22:37 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCA7A09B11CE7162DA3FECE7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 29/03/2012 17:18, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 29/03/2012 17:10, Mike Barnard wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Any one know where I can get a FreeBSD-9.0-STABLE ISO/IMG image? >> >> ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ >> >> That path does not seem to have it. >> >=20 > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/9.0/ Errr... except of course that is -RELEASE and you asked for -STABLE. I don't believe there's a 9.0-STABLE snapshot available at freebsd.org right now. Instead, try one from here: ftp://ftp.allbsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-snapshots/amd64-amd64/9.0-RELENG_9-20120= 329-JPSNAP/ There's a new snapshot available there pretty much daily. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey --------------enigCA7A09B11CE7162DA3FECE7E Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk90jEgACgkQ8Mjk52CukIxqCwCeJyKWicsGJ9ECKNUVxfCkcdTo YvsAmwWBSbgFpXG3cv/blyVHrdXD8BeS =YTAI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCA7A09B11CE7162DA3FECE7E-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:27:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D851065670; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:27:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D508FC12; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:27:41 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=OgUiSRDFY6uvWK0DlzrRv2SWbHw2dnaKH4UPxJtCkRo=; b=Oq5W/har4j+fd6KPf4INeY+S8mqAkezW9PoLU2VtsdPPcQhNRKGFTITFzaqDfDxmSsaac5JlCIp39kS3V7NhzDRVPtkONaznlyAXFbVf3OFVT27NAyjDMbYxVIGflP54; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDICG-000IA5-9P; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:27:41 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333038455-20726-20725/5/20; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:27:35 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:27:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:27:42 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:55:36 -0500, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > It almost sounds like the lost interrupt issue I've seen with USB EHCI > devices, though disk I/O should have a retry timeout? > > What does "wmstat -i" output? > > --HPS Here's a server that has a week uptime and is due for a crash any hour now: root@server:/# vmstat -i interrupt total rate irq1: atkbd0 34 0 irq6: fdc0 9 0 irq15: ata1 34 0 irq16: em1 778061 1 irq17: mpt0 19217711 31 irq18: em0 283674769 460 cpu0: timer 246571507 400 Total 550242125 892 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:34:15 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81872106564A; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:34:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471468FC1B; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:34:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=HJjClu8HgYP+a+wGeZEw3O0VCjjvrx/0QUiqkc7huXc=; b=ZU66DcldMHJlV2fUcEv18KQ9JmranSfcd/iQiGE/2WY+xz9HFD/JJi3qE/HlBcbpLmD4dDSzcrsQrfDZPpQskQHUhJxgr6eJqJyEzXIo4sqfQHdGpC2bhQSMy1WATWou; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDIIW-000IA5-Ar; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:34:07 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333038842-20726-20725/5/23; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:34:02 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <201203291342.q2TDggoG079149@aurora.sol.net> <201203291658.16114.hselasky@c2i.net> <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:34:02 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:34:15 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:49:30 -0500, Joe Greco wrote: > I explained it at the time to one of my VMware friends: This is 100% identical to what we see, Joe! And we're so unlucky that we have this happen on probably a dozen servers, but a handful are the really bad ones. We've rebuilt them from scratch many times with no improvement. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:39:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE64106566C for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:39:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vmagerya@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D56E48FC12 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:39:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wern13 with SMTP id n13so1487270wer.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=svJRrtfT5XXDYOgfyb678HtxPf9Zw5xxKBQNIoi7RV0=; b=Th5iFN3fs68ZU28/lnHvOaE4Vy9BF51ZhjuC/zv+5V421uhQsXSnZTGHM19vNoEzaR 3MC4tqPXR8Fd9B1QnJ48glrgFVIJ9eJSkku3Rbd29q/k8t3Bj9O28xdc8tZlIBjCYznW BsvxfqI0T6jTJ0apCxacGu/ifgaHbMsi8sgyWrk0v35vEJyphcMhnmkch4NKIszrjREv tKXfQCQxbqkSooeC5IXYcWF8ivNH5C2WaOQ346ZJ8azUWTsma0KCrsW/2TfP2nVR7PCq O7ua0zsPcKK/7Rv6/ASIK6VOdyvw0uUiM17lweduoWkJhE6tzKkGb+UfvYqC5L81PoVQ 36mg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.85.69 with SMTP id f5mr7175312wiz.18.1333039186703; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.2.207 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:39:46 +0300 Message-ID: From: Vitaly Magerya To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Per-file, per-process disk access statistics X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:39:48 -0000 Hi, folks. I want to diagnose which programs trigger disk writes, so I'm wondering if there's a way to determine which processes write to which files on what disks with what speed? I know there are gstat(8) and iostat(8) which show how busy each disk is, but they do not show which files are being written and which processes are doing it. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:43:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16AB1065670; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:43:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kc5vdj.freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gx0-f182.google.com (mail-gx0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D608FC16; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:43:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnk4 with SMTP id k4so1984551ggn.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:43:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=h/bAQkqeFv20XrTFvuwLogCff6PuWrAUfTUT65mamLw=; b=d4QoecpFCqJtBAlqSyFeMq0ryOup1o0oS+6S/WWtLjcEn0DiU+sxCT+3oaRlTtCi5Q YvCbHRwNSO4TEM4I/YM4pUPZK9YE2iv04Lc+c1A7iNOk9jyv8sfnwZEsbGTc3pqkaa/D NuT87FbF5ROVHnq75cXRccwo3N3jmVNYZV/vAbKUpMEPzaob/jB9KIMjr6uv7QCR3SqM ngklGX4oPa2bKocLO0nNb/llDHtFt41qR+y/lkuyGUZjVGlAvTeszrMymfkkinfQXHGt fll2/dZ7WD2NpLEVdhUcPAII/jgFM9nWxtOuDd6f9Rcla3fJ8JvgHhPHv+O6RuFsO/ce QMBQ== Received: by 10.60.1.4 with SMTP id 4mr43731334oei.28.1333039421551; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from argus.electron-tube.net (173-28-218-168.client.mchsi.com. [173.28.218.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vp14sm5212474oeb.5.2012.03.29.09.43.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F749141.8010109@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:43:45 -0500 From: Jim Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20100911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Felder References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:43:42 -0000 This sounds just like a race condition that happens under Windows 7 on this laptop. The race condition, as far as I can tell involves heavy disk access and heavy network access, and usually leaves the drive light on, while all activity monitors (alldisk, allcpu, allnetwork) are still active, although on this laptop disk takes priority, and network slows to a crawl. occasionally, the mouse will stop working, along with everything else, but usually not. keyboard is lower priority, and doesn't do anything. You might want to check with mickeysoft, this might just be their problem. This sounds so freaking similar to the issue I get, and I think it's a race condition (shared interrupts??). This laptop is a Compaq Presario C300 series, with the 945GM chipset and a T7600 Core2 Duo CPU, with 3G of RAM. Mark Felder wrote: > Alright guys, I'm at the end of my rope here. For those that haven't > seen my previous emails here's the (not so) quick breakdown: > > Overview: > > FreeBSD ?? - 7.4 never crash > FreeBSD 8.0 - 8.2 crashes > FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested (Sorry, not possible in > our production at this time, and we were hoping we could base some > stuff on 8.3 for long term stability...) > ESXi: Confirmed ESXi 4.0 - 5.0 has this problem. Haven't tested on > others. > > > History: > > Over the course of the last 2 years we've been banging our heads on > the wall. VMWare is done debugging this. They claim it's not a VMWare > issue. They can't identify what the heck happens. We had a glimmer of > hope with ESXi 5.0 fixing it because we never saw any crashes in the > handful of deployments, but our dreams were crushed today -- two days > before an outage to begin migration to ESXi 5.0 -- when a customer's > ESXi 5.0 server and FreeBSD 8.2 guest crashed. > > > Crash Details: > > The keyboard/mouse usually stops responding for input on the console; > normally we can't type in a username or password. However, we can > switch VTs. > > If there's a shell on the console and we can type, we can only run > things in memory. Any time we try to access the disk it will hang > indefinitely. > > The server still has network access. We can ping it without issue. SSH > of course kicks you out because it can't do any I/O. > > If we were to serve a lightweight http server off a memory backed > filesystem I'm confident it would run just fine as long as it wasn't > logging or anything. > > On ESXi you see that there is a CPU spike of 100% that goes on > indefinitely. No idea what the FreeBSD OS itself thinks it is doing > because we can't run top during the crash. > > This crash can affect a server and happen multiple times a week. It > can also not show up for 180 days or more. But it does happen. The > server can be 100% idle and crash. We have servers that do more I/O > than the ones that crash could ever attempt to do and these don't > crash at all. Completely inexplicable. > > > Things we've looked into: > > Nothing about the installed software matters. We've tried cross > referencing the crashed servers by the programs they run but the base > OS is the only common denominator due to the wide variety of servers > it has affected. > > Storage doesn't matter. We've tried different iSCSI SANs, we've tried > different switches, we've tried local datastores on the ESXi servers > themselves. > > HP servers, Dell servers -- doesn't seem to matter either. (All with > latest firmwares, BIOSes, etc) > > VMWare gave us a ton of debugging tasks, and we've given them > gigabytes of debugging info and data; they can't find anything. > > VMWare tools -- with, without, using open-vm-tools makes no > difference. I think we've done a fair job ruling out VMWare. > > > I think we've finally found enough data that this is definitely > something in the FreeBSD world. I'm going to begin prepping some of > the known crashy servers with more debugging. Any suggestions on what > I should build the kernel with? They never do a proper panic, but I > definitely want to at least *try* to get into the debugger the next > time it crashes. And when it crashes, what the heck should I be > running? I've never played with the KDB before... > > > Thank you for any suggestions and help you can give me.... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 16:53:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6AC31065670; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:53:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alan.l.cox@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711788FC0A; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:53:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbcwz17 with SMTP id wz17so423760pbc.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:53:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ygMI8sgrwYQMlKyI/jI7SjAob7XiQCRGlhvltif9IFo=; b=uRHiDNboJE3KaveXIoNs4XTD+lbDl4Ftn1sIW0CyyvLXlzsILfafwUFqaAjZ24R3gF d89M7VlqtQ5pdDCxJQ6wZPODcWF56yBAntS6JZ3Tvlh1rn+J9kMEP2j2BhHDI9Mhc+Mb dSSryGBfb864iArKTrfldlMJTqSNDWJv6dJ/l1TcbcFZz5OCX8jYzBB00hR6cOWDPo3k gGUZVUVFlyv2G3R/i+tIOneu+s3nQO9lBIinAG0TfnzN98vtyZJnEWzmFm3ZlXnXux4o KloPFEfjzkn/TjrH+mmRO6cUx4mbirhqAlPjp7V4fxdB5rvGPfPcMvTVFozltImu6XX2 yXNg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.134.101 with SMTP id pj5mr1444886pbb.48.1333039982800; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.228.168 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:53:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:53:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alan Cox To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: alc@freebsd.org List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:53:03 -0000 On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Mark Felder wrote: > On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:55:36 -0500, Hans Petter Selasky > wrote: > >> >> It almost sounds like the lost interrupt issue I've seen with USB EHCI >> devices, though disk I/O should have a retry timeout? >> >> What does "wmstat -i" output? >> >> --HPS >> > > > Here's a server that has a week uptime and is due for a crash any hour now: > > root@server:/# vmstat -i > interrupt total rate > irq1: atkbd0 34 0 > irq6: fdc0 9 0 > irq15: ata1 34 0 > irq16: em1 778061 1 > irq17: mpt0 19217711 31 > irq18: em0 283674769 460 > cpu0: timer 246571507 400 > Total 550242125 892 > > Not so long ago, VMware implemented a clever scheme for reducing the overhead of virtualized interrupts that must be delivered by at least some (if not all) of their emulated storage controllers: http://static.usenix.org/events/atc11/tech/techAbstracts.html#Ahmad Perhaps, there is a bad interaction between this scheme and FreeBSD's mpt driver. Alan From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 17:05:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6579D1065675 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:05:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDB58FC17 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:05:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SDIn8-0002dN-2M for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:05:42 +0200 Received: from 208.85.208.53 ([208.85.208.53]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:05:42 +0200 Received: from atkin901 by 208.85.208.53 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:05:42 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Mark Atkinson Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:05:30 -0700 Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.85.208.53 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:10.0.3) Gecko/20120320 Thunderbird/10.0.3 In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:05:45 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/29/2012 07:03, Mark Felder wrote: > Alright, new data. It happened to crash about 10 minutes after I > came in this morning and I ran some stuff in the DDB. I have no > idea what information is useful, but perhaps someone will see > something out of the ordinary? > > > http://feld.me/freebsd/esx_crash/ If this is an interrupt problem with disk i/o, then you might want to look into (DDB(4)) show intr show intrcount maybe show allrman -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk90lloACgkQrDN5kXnx8yaCZACbBamQksNyWC26PUsOn5N9LJLV ql0AoJwYCFDfXhCpZIN735V9qg0VepFf =fCLN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 17:24:37 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C561065672 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:24:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643608FC14 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:24:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so2011599yhg.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:24:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=2xC9caMuV/eEuh9LSEnD5Cj+wWI6109H9dfhH50fHdw=; b=iQ41qqpdbhB1POvTVjbqtXSnKl4iSC9dHEyJWEVfJUpSUe2RMXjyIg09Y/NOI6OhmO 5fYoEkKuac+wKJCXmhL6ep0YrWFGtt01g7VoibC0R28JF4YO9wcuQgR4HiCZ6RYuiYhb b63OtA1g290xe9p94L2LL08wEDKIS0PpcCUWw5L1x3Aw7SoJW51viwZhAt95R/dy6T2u Nq1u55SPhuSQjepWcDmO6EPh7ChPOOe1ffoR75az7LSdKLhnUH/5CsfOhvofcrlChG6K 32HJxqRmc+bYpr3tbM8uCZCqDa8hjrpiIGIxSV5KaWtBqBFipFNi+RpRNgVZ0p89qgBq LzUA== Received: by 10.236.168.41 with SMTP id j29mr34711196yhl.24.1333041876624; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net ([76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 34sm8719089anu.6.2012.03.29.10.24.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3VJXrb0zx2z2CG5d for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:24:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:24:30 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120329132430.13dc08e7@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <4F749141.8010109@gmail.com> References: <4F749141.8010109@gmail.com> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnqtcG4Z7JvD2G2XrmeSU9MbuSodBijSP6HiO+BQvz72AfIal+Q+axc126pMnf04ZlrvM8G Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:24:37 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:43:45 -0500 Jim Bryant articulated: > Mark Felder wrote: > > Alright guys, I'm at the end of my rope here. For those that > > haven't seen my previous emails here's the (not so) quick breakdown: > > > > Overview: > > > > FreeBSD ?? - 7.4 never crash > > FreeBSD 8.0 - 8.2 crashes > > FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested (Sorry, not possible in > > our production at this time, and we were hoping we could base some > > stuff on 8.3 for long term stability...) > > ESXi: Confirmed ESXi 4.0 - 5.0 has this problem. Haven't tested on > > others. > > > > > > History: > > > > Over the course of the last 2 years we've been banging our heads on > > the wall. VMWare is done debugging this. They claim it's not a > > VMWare issue. They can't identify what the heck happens. We had a > > glimmer of hope with ESXi 5.0 fixing it because we never saw any > > crashes in the handful of deployments, but our dreams were crushed > > today -- two days before an outage to begin migration to ESXi 5.0 > > -- when a customer's ESXi 5.0 server and FreeBSD 8.2 guest crashed. > > > > > > Crash Details: > > > > The keyboard/mouse usually stops responding for input on the > > console; normally we can't type in a username or password. However, > > we can switch VTs. > > > > If there's a shell on the console and we can type, we can only run > > things in memory. Any time we try to access the disk it will hang > > indefinitely. > > > > The server still has network access. We can ping it without issue. > > SSH of course kicks you out because it can't do any I/O. > > > > If we were to serve a lightweight http server off a memory backed > > filesystem I'm confident it would run just fine as long as it > > wasn't logging or anything. > > > > On ESXi you see that there is a CPU spike of 100% that goes on > > indefinitely. No idea what the FreeBSD OS itself thinks it is doing > > because we can't run top during the crash. > > > > This crash can affect a server and happen multiple times a week. It > > can also not show up for 180 days or more. But it does happen. The > > server can be 100% idle and crash. We have servers that do more I/O > > than the ones that crash could ever attempt to do and these don't > > crash at all. Completely inexplicable. > > > > > > Things we've looked into: > > > > Nothing about the installed software matters. We've tried cross > > referencing the crashed servers by the programs they run but the > > base OS is the only common denominator due to the wide variety of > > servers it has affected. > > > > Storage doesn't matter. We've tried different iSCSI SANs, we've > > tried different switches, we've tried local datastores on the ESXi > > servers themselves. > > > > HP servers, Dell servers -- doesn't seem to matter either. (All > > with latest firmwares, BIOSes, etc) > > > > VMWare gave us a ton of debugging tasks, and we've given them > > gigabytes of debugging info and data; they can't find anything. > > > > VMWare tools -- with, without, using open-vm-tools makes no > > difference. I think we've done a fair job ruling out VMWare. > > > > > > I think we've finally found enough data that this is definitely > > something in the FreeBSD world. I'm going to begin prepping some of > > the known crashy servers with more debugging. Any suggestions on > > what I should build the kernel with? They never do a proper panic, > > but I definitely want to at least *try* to get into the debugger > > the next time it crashes. And when it crashes, what the heck should > > I be running? I've never played with the KDB before... > > > > > > Thank you for any suggestions and help you can give me.... > > This sounds just like a race condition that happens under Windows 7 > on this laptop. The race condition, as far as I can tell involves > heavy disk access and heavy network access, and usually leaves the > drive light on, while all activity monitors (alldisk, allcpu, > allnetwork) are still active, although on this laptop disk takes > priority, and network slows to a crawl. occasionally, the mouse will > stop working, along with everything else, but usually not. keyboard > is lower priority, and doesn't do anything. > > You might want to check with mickeysoft, this might just be their > problem. This sounds so freaking similar to the issue I get, and I > think it's a race condition (shared interrupts??). > > This laptop is a Compaq Presario C300 series, with the 945GM chipset > and a T7600 Core2 Duo CPU, with 3G of RAM. {TOP POSTING CORRECTED} I just started reading this tread, but I am wondering if I missed something here. What does this have to do with "Windows 7"? -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 17:28:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 325601065676; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:28:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6CC28FC23; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:28:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=emgPWYOK+77W7Rja+EVBGyqjyN+hjs9k8BKIMxIlhjo=; b=bO7EWE/seVTeW1GmechDZq/17NAfHNLrl+I/ykU9LMCRz3nxT4TzzQz0cCYdujtnl2GvX3Rex74y3c/KHNLx7lwkQADMdzgLmnf7K31mecxWjYG/15GXrGcKxbd7CWhn; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDJ8u-000Jqv-Hg; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:28:13 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333042086-20726-20725/5/27; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:28:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:28:05 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Mark Atkinson Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:28:14 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:05:30 -0500, Mark Atkinson wrote: > > If this is an interrupt problem with disk i/o, then you might want to > look into (DDB(4)) > show intr > show intrcount > maybe > show allrman Thank you! I really don't know what things we should be running in DDB to diagnose this and we will try this upon the next crash. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 18:08:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A0F9106566B; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:08:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CE6C8FC08; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:08:46 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Cc:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=BD4obHGT9ppxvMLZZKh3LKUVOtBil/d3MYBw1lObOYM=; b=pMy8NPGGZgL5sF4wHiyWZJs5uJeM4FBrkNFbkFVcrYS6dYBIv9ugpTrU0kyYZmtwI/1ZgbJTriYHJLFy1+cXw2j0okzu5V88UO6oj5jncoERwpI+xHw0T5IBtG0PPUd2; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDJm9-000KwF-B5; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:08:45 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333044519-20726-20725/5/28; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:08:39 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: FreeBSD , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <4F749141.8010109@gmail.com> <20120329132430.13dc08e7@scorpio> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:08:39 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20120329132430.13dc08e7@scorpio> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: jerry@seibercom.net Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:08:46 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:24:30 -0500, wrote: > > I just started reading this tread, but I am wondering if I missed > something here. What does this have to do with "Windows 7"? I emailed him off-list but I'm guessing he thought this was on VMWare Workstation or another product that would virtualize FreeBSD on top of Windows as the host OS. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 18:23:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B292106566B; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:23:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F438FC14; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:22:59 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=L41xhzYIUziylE2npfuvjW7UKgbZ60c/QSWKj0eGJSs=; b=DDU2g36zHGaiYqnXW/gVMB8c0j4JtH334KN6nmwBtQk8OGI16MUXJ5d/9n+n6K3pvE43p9lMt/hHbyJn3SOzKOuF10K94RjaaK++50VDPHHNeKooOdo5/2AWmFOeo1Ex; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDJzp-000LKs-7F; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:22:58 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333045367-20726-20725/5/29; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:22:47 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:22:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: alc@freebsd.org, Alan Cox Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:23:00 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:53:02 -0500, Alan Cox wrote: > > Not so long ago, VMware implemented a clever scheme for reducing the > overhead of virtualized interrupts that must be delivered by at least > some > (if not all) of their emulated storage controllers: > > http://static.usenix.org/events/atc11/tech/techAbstracts.html#Ahmad > > Perhaps, there is a bad interaction between this scheme and FreeBSD's mpt > driver. > > Alan If we assume mpt is the culprit how can I go about diagnosing this more accurately? Is there something I should be looking for in vmstat -i? Too many interrupts? Not enough? Rate too high or too low? Or is this something that is much harder to track down because we're dealing with emulated hardware? If any BSD devs are interested in access to our environment I think we could comply. I might even be able to get authorization to give you an account on the most crash-prone server which doesn't have any sensitive customer data on it. I think at this point we'd even be willing to pay someone to look at a server in this state just so we (and hopefully others) can benefit.... and hopefully we end up with a more reliable FreeBSD-on-VMWare for everyone. I know Doug mentioned running newer OS versions and that is definitely tempting but because it's not 100% reproducible on demand it's hard to prove it fixes it without waiting 6 months. We're fighting internally here with "trust 9.0 fixes it" vs "jump back to 7.4 because we KNOW it doesn't happen there". Having someone look at this and say "oh, yes, that's a deficiency in mpt that appears to be fixed in the newer driver that was MFC'd to 8-STABLE and you'll find in 8.3-RELEASE and 9.0-RELEASE" would be more comforting. Thanks to everyone for their time on this! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 20:16:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311C7106567E; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:16:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail1.sol.net (mail1.sol.net [206.55.64.72]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B978FC08; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:16:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail1.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2TKGGFX053716; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:16:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2TKGFmA083082; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:16:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203292016.q2TKGFmA083082@aurora.sol.net> To: hselasky@c2i.net (Hans Petter Selasky) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:16:15 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Adrian Chadd , Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:16:25 -0000 > On Thursday 29 March 2012 17:49:30 Joe Greco wrote: > > > On Thursday 29 March 2012 15:42:42 Joe Greco wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Do both 32- and 64-bit versions of FreeBSD crash? > > > > We've only seen it happen on one virtual machine. That was a 32-bit > > version. And it's not so much a crash as it is a "disk I/O hang". > > It almost sounds like the lost interrupt issue I've seen with USB EHCI > devices, though disk I/O should have a retry timeout? That doesn't seem to fit. Why would a perfectly functional VM suddenly develop this problem when given a slow underlying datastore (fits so far) but then the problem *remains* when returned to a fast local datastore, even on a different host and architecture? And why wouldn't the other VM's running alongside develop the same problem? > What does "wmstat -i" output? No idea, we reloaded the VM months ago. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 20:53:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901F0106566C; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:53:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amvandemore@gmail.com) Received: from mail-we0-f182.google.com (mail-we0-f182.google.com [74.125.82.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E655A8FC14; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:53:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wern13 with SMTP id n13so1673490wer.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:53:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=zzR8T3qEHZscmAxN7nBVG9oUvkTcuTODxK+72C9ztMc=; b=JglZpA/eB2E3kn91qdiTDeOylC5nddnHLSEOOY0fAoxVbOZ6Q41MkjL9SpMwFzrKzi dOiLsC75hLcVHgzoBaEE6XGUfmCyo1lEyGETGbOcRKkARqSiLRAy7nShuIwRltAt8xL2 D+VL53C/If82hm9WDw3NbgbbDyTtJZNc4VsRCfoPqjO0YQNGjKh/5clR4GLmOVVUxSzm Abe9fxw+rlQ0T/7lTT2LkiqfggGHOSmiBUWQGg9r/AZCpAJOFfhZSug3i9l3mzvF8E3K HEokmM9h9CM/nJIzjyZsTWGR+8hmFQBwNCR6XmZl2bzCbylTCj+UStOyD7okbX67ktww jhJw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.102.102 with SMTP id fn6mr9244527wib.10.1333054432671; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.94.73 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:53:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:53:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: Adam Vande More To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:53:54 -0000 On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > > If we assume mpt is the culprit > Doesn't VMWare offer different types of emulated disk controllers? If so, that might be the easiest way to narrow the field. Another thing maybe to try would be to backport the mpt Also, it's not VMWare's place to claim "not our problem" when you are paying for support. If this doesn't happen on bare metal, it's a VMWare issue, or they need to demonstrate it's not their issue. At least that would be the expectation I have. There is also a comment on this post indicating someone else with the issue and who has received unofficial vmware feedback. http://www.hailang.me/tech/virtual/freebsd-vmware-esx-a-weird-error-with-san-storage/ And then there is this one with similar symptoms and a workaround: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=27899 -- Adam Vande More From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 29 22:07:57 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7461065670; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:07:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EC58FC12; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:07:56 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=0Z91cJ7cu6JXBVRWd4Zkfxa6wwHBJJnj2Hr66vxdsTQ=; b=P5Sp4SjhY9Qdi7AoO3zNhrP4pCy4TO+RFxdwUdTxX36QZlLT3Rqod6ausHx0kozZAcUtakTXv8mjY1w/a6Ea1rjUJbG5C8u6F79dQqTnUcjMEZCQhQEpdSK/Yw0IQl3D; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDNVa-0003cj-98; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:07:56 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333058867-20726-20725/5/32; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:07:47 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <201203291549.q2TFnUc7080406@aurora.sol.net> <201203291755.36651.hselasky@c2i.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:07:47 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Adam Vande More Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:07:57 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:53:52 -0500, Adam Vande More =20 wrote: > > Doesn't VMWare offer different types of emulated disk controllers? If = =20 > so, > that might be the easiest way to narrow the field. Another thing = maybe =20 > to > try would be to backport the mpt Yes, they offer Paravirtual (not applicable for FreeBSD), LSI Parallel =20 (default option), LSI SAS, and Buslogic (not available for 64bit). Both LSI SAS and LSI Parallel use the mpt driver. > > Also, it's not VMWare's place to claim "not our problem" when you are > paying for support. If this doesn't happen on bare metal, it's a = VMWare > issue, or they need to demonstrate it's not their issue. At least that > would be the expectation I have. You're right, but we've thrown a ton of money at their support and had =20 direct phone access to their engineers. The best we can get out of them = is =20 "no indication this is a VMWare problem". It's easy for them to blow =20 people off when they're as big as they've grown to be. > There is also a comment on this post indicating someone else with the =20 > issue > and who has received unofficial vmware feedback. > > http://www.hailang.me/tech/virtual/freebsd-vmware-esx-a-weird-error-wit= h-san-storage/ I found that post ages ago and that's me, "mf", as the only person to =20 comment on it. Unfortunately our problem does not align with what he's =20 describing. > > And then there is this one with similar symptoms and a workaround: > > http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=3D27899 > I'm now investigating those loader.conf options. I have my crashy = machine =20 set to use them on next boot so we'll see if it crashes now that I'm = using =20 LSI SAS emulated controller. If it still crashes, we'll see what happens = =20 after that with those loader.conf options enabled. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 00:13:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx2.freebsd.org (mx2.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::35]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C08F1065670; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:13:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dougb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (hub.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::36]) by mx2.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4701F150480; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:13:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F74FA8C.8060108@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:13:00 -0700 From: Doug Barton Organization: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Greco References: <201203291401.q2TE1pLt079422@aurora.sol.net> In-Reply-To: <201203291401.q2TE1pLt079422@aurora.sol.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:13:01 -0000 On 3/29/2012 7:01 AM, Joe Greco wrote: >> On 3/28/2012 1:59 PM, Mark Felder wrote: >>> FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested >> >> As much as I'm sensitive to your production requirements, realistically >> it's not likely that you'll get a helpful result without testing a newer >> version. 8.2 came out over a year ago, many many things have changed >> since then. >> >> Doug > > So you're saying that he should have been using 8.3-RELEASE, then. That isn't what I said at all, sorry if I wasn't clear. The OP mentioned 9.0-RELEASE, and in the context of his message (which I snipped) he mentioned 8-stable. That's what I was referring to. > If you'll kindly go over to http://www.freebsd.org and look under > "Latest Releases", please note that "8.2" is a production release. > If you don't want it to be a production release, then find a way > to make it so, but please don't snipe at people who are using the > code that the FreeBSD project has indicated is a current production > offering. > > There are many good reasons not to run arbitrary snapshots on your > production gear. It's unrealistic to expect people to run non- > RELEASE non-production code on their production gear. We can have > that discussion if you don't understand that, drop me a note off- > list and I'll be happy to explain it. I can see that you're upset about something, sorry if my message caused you additional stress. I actually understand the realities of production environments quite well, and believe it or not I agree with some of your frustration about how we handle support for our "supported" releases. We've had various public threads about these issues, which have sparked some quite-lively private discussions amongst our committers, and I'm hoping that once the long-overdue 8.3-RELEASE is out we'll be able to buckle down and start putting some of those ideas into action. Meanwhile, this is still a volunteer project, and as a result sometimes the best way to get attention to a problem is to verify that it hasn't already been fixed. You've been around more than long enough to understand this Joe. We can spend time arguing about what *should* be (actually we can't ...) but my point was in trying to help the OP get the most/best help the fastest way possible. Doug From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 00:27:36 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 443A4106564A; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:27:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail1.sol.net (mail1.sol.net [206.55.64.72]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC92A8FC08; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:27:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail1.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2U0RW7N058640; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:27:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2U0RVZS085304; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:27:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203300027.q2U0RVZS085304@aurora.sol.net> To: feld@feld.me (Mark Felder) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:27:31 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:27:36 -0000 > > And then there is this one with similar symptoms and a workaround: > > > > http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=3D27899 > > I'm now investigating those loader.conf options. I have my crashy machine > set to use them on next boot so we'll see if it crashes now that I'm using > LSI SAS emulated controller. If it still crashes, we'll see what happens > after that with those loader.conf options enabled. Um, if I may, that's something completely different. VMDirectPath, or PCIe passthru, is making a hardware device on a VMware host available directly to a guest. It'll take your LSI controller, in the example cited, and make it unavailable to VMware ESXi, and present it instead inside the guest environment. You do this when you have an app whose performance would suffer greatly when made to operate through the indirection that a VM naturally lives in; for example, it is quite common for FreeNAS users to pass a disk controller through to a VM guest in order to allow a virtualized FreeNAS instance to directly manage the physical disks. In that case, there are some issues with ESXi and interrupt delivery to the guest VM; virtualization doesn't actually get rid of the possibility of ESXi problems, since the hypervisor is still ultimately involved. It is certainly possible that there's some common issue involving interrupt delivery somehow, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. It also doesn't explain the experience here, where one VM basically crapped out but only after a migration - and then stayed crapped out. It would be interesting to hear about your datastore, how busy it is, what technology, whether you're using thin, etc. I just have this real strong feeling that it's some sort of corruption with the vmfs3 and thin provisioned disk format, but it'd be interesting to know if that's totally off-track. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 00:47:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C3F106566B; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:47:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3097E8FC16; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:47:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=9p4s/1itnCxpchoFGNrjfFOq0EzEyG3izZCZBVoQUEE=; b=UeV1TvdcRx2Dc3ZG7iUphhdp0Fnvks8xxl2rH+6uiuKkRT1wLc3lzjU9m6NySWvfJES3qMKTqGsNexM/deAqJk8ybR97t0tsm5cn5dSYMlDwC6NeW4bXj7PJ4lcR6pYB; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDQ0K-0007oP-43; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:47:49 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333068462-20726-20725/5/33; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:47:42 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <201203300027.q2U0RVZS085304@aurora.sol.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:47:29 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <201203300027.q2U0RVZS085304@aurora.sol.net> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Joe Greco Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:47:50 -0000 On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:27:31 -0500, Joe Greco wrote: > It also doesn't explain the experience here, where one VM basically > crapped out but only after a migration - and then stayed crapped out. > It would be interesting to hear about your datastore, how busy it is, > what technology, whether you're using thin, etc. I just have this real > strong feeling that it's some sort of corruption with the vmfs3 and thin > provisioned disk format, but it'd be interesting to know if that's > totally off-track. We've ruled out SAN, but we haven't ruled out VMFS. Even FreeBSD Guests on standalone ESXi servers with no SAN exhibit this crash. For the record, we only use thick provisioning and if it was corruption I'm not sure what layer the corruption could be at. The crashy servers show no abnormalities when I run either `freebsd-update IPS` or `pkg_libchk` to confirm checksums of all installed programs. Now the other data on there... it's not exactly verified, but our backups via rsnapshot seem to prove there is no issue there or we'd have lots of new files each run. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 01:25:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB3E106564A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:25:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jherman@dichotomia.fr) Received: from mail.dichotomia.fr (hydrogen.dichotomia.net [91.121.82.228]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF08B8FC0A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:25:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.2.11] (unknown [109.190.13.180]) (Authenticated sender: kha@dichotomia.fr) by sslmail.dichotomia.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 405103DD079 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:17:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4F75099C.3030606@dichotomia.fr> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:17:16 +0200 From: Jerome Herman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (sslmail.dichotomia.fr); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:17:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:25:26 -0000 On 28/03/2012 22:59, Mark Felder wrote: > Alright guys, I'm at the end of my rope here. For those that haven't > seen my previous emails here's the (not so) quick breakdown: > > Overview: > > FreeBSD ?? - 7.4 never crash > FreeBSD 8.0 - 8.2 crashes > FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested (Sorry, not possible in > our production at this time, and we were hoping we could base some > stuff on 8.3 for long term stability...) > ESXi: Confirmed ESXi 4.0 - 5.0 has this problem. Haven't tested on > others. > > > History: > > Over the course of the last 2 years we've been banging our heads on > the wall. VMWare is done debugging this. They claim it's not a VMWare > issue. They can't identify what the heck happens. We had a glimmer of > hope with ESXi 5.0 fixing it because we never saw any crashes in the > handful of deployments, but our dreams were crushed today -- two days > before an outage to begin migration to ESXi 5.0 -- when a customer's > ESXi 5.0 server and FreeBSD 8.2 guest crashed. > > > Crash Details: > > The keyboard/mouse usually stops responding for input on the console; > normally we can't type in a username or password. However, we can > switch VTs. > > If there's a shell on the console and we can type, we can only run > things in memory. Any time we try to access the disk it will hang > indefinitely. > > The server still has network access. We can ping it without issue. SSH > of course kicks you out because it can't do any I/O. > > If we were to serve a lightweight http server off a memory backed > filesystem I'm confident it would run just fine as long as it wasn't > logging or anything. > > On ESXi you see that there is a CPU spike of 100% that goes on > indefinitely. No idea what the FreeBSD OS itself thinks it is doing > because we can't run top during the crash. > > This crash can affect a server and happen multiple times a week. It > can also not show up for 180 days or more. But it does happen. The > server can be 100% idle and crash. We have servers that do more I/O > than the ones that crash could ever attempt to do and these don't > crash at all. Completely inexplicable. > > > Things we've looked into: > > Nothing about the installed software matters. We've tried cross > referencing the crashed servers by the programs they run but the base > OS is the only common denominator due to the wide variety of servers > it has affected. > > Storage doesn't matter. We've tried different iSCSI SANs, we've tried > different switches, we've tried local datastores on the ESXi servers > themselves. > > HP servers, Dell servers -- doesn't seem to matter either. (All with > latest firmwares, BIOSes, etc) > > VMWare gave us a ton of debugging tasks, and we've given them > gigabytes of debugging info and data; they can't find anything. > > VMWare tools -- with, without, using open-vm-tools makes no > difference. I think we've done a fair job ruling out VMWare. > > > I think we've finally found enough data that this is definitely > something in the FreeBSD world. I'm going to begin prepping some of > the known crashy servers with more debugging. Any suggestions on what > I should build the kernel with? They never do a proper panic, but I > definitely want to at least *try* to get into the debugger the next > time it crashes. And when it crashes, what the heck should I be > running? I've never played with the KDB before... > > > Thank you for any suggestions and help you can give me.... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Sorry, coming a bit late to the party, I have seen similar behavior on a few vm. All of them either Debian and FreeBSD. Even though CPU indication are not necessarily relevant in a VM, vi launched through crontab -e would take insane amount of CPU (up to 84%) and Apache was hanging around 350% 400% (quad CPU VM). Now the thing is that making a VM snapshot and deploying the snapshot a while later, or on a different (way less loaded) VMWare platform would basically make it perfectly usable again. Shutting down the VM and starting it again with only one CPU would also basically solve the problem. In a way Debian seemed to be able to survive the crisis but Disk I/O have latencies of many seconds, sometimes minutes. This would happen only on heavily loaded VMWare. In a quite similar way older version of Debian never shown the problem. Can you test whether you have similar behavior on your platform ? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 04:12:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFC78106566C for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:12:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bfls@netspace.net.au) Received: from webmail.icp-qv1-irony-out6.iinet.net.au (webmail.icp-qv1-irony-out6.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461668FC0C for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:12:45 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap0EALoxdU8KAiwn/2dsb2JhbABEhUa0X4Izfg0CJgJ6sQ6SHIEvjD2CDIEYBJtzA40U X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,340,1330876800"; d="scan'208";a="314986208" Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) ([10.2.44.39]) by outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out6.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 30 Mar 2012 12:09:21 +0800 Message-Id: <4a0ac4b5753c513c2a41cdbd8222632cd7adf25f@webmail.netspace.net.au> From: "Barbara La Scala" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Atmail 6.3.3.9203 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:09:21 +1100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Off-Topic: Computing for the Blind X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:12:46 -0000 Many thanks to everyone who contacted me, either directly or through the= list. I now have=0Aplenty of places and ideas to check out to help get= my stepfather online. At the moment, =0AI'm leaning towards getting hi= m a Mac (since it has a "real" operating system under the=0Ahood) and a= suite of text/keyboard friendly apps.=0A=0ASince I've starting looking= into this I've come to realise how much having good eyesight is=0Ataken= for granted, what with context sensitive menus, touch screens and the (= ab)use of =0AFlash. Be kind to your retinas and corneas. They are more= useful than you might realise.=0A=0AThanks again for all the help.=0ABa= rbara From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 04:48:31 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7361065678; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:48:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pb0-f54.google.com (mail-pb0-f54.google.com [209.85.160.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED9FB8FC0C; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:48:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pbcwz17 with SMTP id wz17so1312200pbc.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:48:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=3dacrXfTE4Dg8wfXnJwWVKoBu1Iz5O3D+oyN7SrZMuE=; b=gDeVv7pNK4FV9DG6X+TBTV4rgQPeisnwZB+vL+CR8uvGFi9yW5hI2WsyBb/fgldy0r gIFpKt1MPaQSMGgvVRT3yjqyN5rVbhfx4WCwPPTOw05tv6+svST6dMGL16b17dk9Odst CrPp1h/cW6+P6aAVOIeKO55PckVvcUZiHsAEaLo9Me1GHPLzotdU5QQ8OV4+u2Z273YR 08/oFk16/tRb/an7nIw1JtG7domppP6NpxkBJyOK4p82yIs0Y4DfERVtiTeuhm1W/bAF drjNpAAVHJ21nT1kiqmsSmMU9W+AmmUzc7ZtnTFDfuMTwsxwIdrbV0ZsU5x1Q2idvs66 Qj1g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.68.213.202 with SMTP id nu10mr5700413pbc.37.1333082910394; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.143.33.5 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:48:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201203300027.q2U0RVZS085304@aurora.sol.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:48:30 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: -UFPX1kx74a2vgImmp6dWXfr7Uc Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Joe Greco Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:48:31 -0000 Again, it's starting to sound like an interrupt handling issue which may or may not be limited to the storage device. You'll have to engage someone who knows those device drivers and likely have them add some debugging to the driver which can be easily flipped on (via binaries in a ramdisk - very important if you can't run sysctl because your disk IO has locked up!) to see what the current state of things. It's likely that the BSD mpt(4) and other storage drivers, and/or our interrupt handling code, is just slightly different enough to confuse the snot out of VMWare. I'd first look at the obvious - (eg, if you've just stopped receiving interrupts, even if new IO is scheduled). I'd also ask VMware if they have any tools that they can run on a VM to get the state of the internal emulated driver. For example, register dumps of the device to see if it's in a hung state, register dumps of the PIC/APIC to see what state they're in, etc. Maybe pull in someone like ixsystems and see if they can help debug this kind of stuff? If you're paying vmware for support, you could pull them into things with ixsystems and see if the two of them can help you sort this out? Thanks, Adrian From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 06:32:40 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71EA106564A; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:32:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike.barnardq@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vb0-f54.google.com (mail-vb0-f54.google.com [209.85.212.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A41D8FC0A; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:32:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vbmv11 with SMTP id v11so274796vbm.13 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:32:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=sk02pzlfFNNGeI2D99U7spArTwvzBlpmxrZjAQW1tZE=; b=PsHEz/DuuyACq7Rf9J7yy5zTiYbrg8B7B71vs12cMIE1r+I/16r4Jc45dxjJPO4FNB KmkrrbtXKilxhrQZHdqn27+3+gozh8XobA1ScT9FcIHaCkmUHTKr89xAiBGGqCQ6QASh NsbYBuwfz1GCpEv5v800G82VwUezAncLds3ouavmI0vblJEDN2TAx3B4FTrDRbjNiZET aLAPJ2l3ZBlc5edoafqUZZKBgjxn9Nm0a3N/iQWuVHAlFKFX9ntGtMBzx24KIJ54+Ps8 VvDudkIcBbwp+8TapoR6/FEhVsIEBn/KapgvU8G3YEQdPnRCSM4V682wt4w8sV97fGeu 00xw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.95.198 with SMTP id dm6mr407960vdb.91.1333089159454; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.228.65 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:32:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F748C48.70507@FreeBSD.org> References: <4F748B67.3020400@FreeBSD.org> <4F748C48.70507@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:32:39 +0300 Message-ID: From: Mike Barnard To: Matthew Seaman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Stable Image X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:32:40 -0000 On 29 March 2012 19:22, Matthew Seaman wrote: > On 29/03/2012 17:18, Matthew Seaman wrote: > > On 29/03/2012 17:10, Mike Barnard wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Any one know where I can get a FreeBSD-9.0-STABLE ISO/IMG image? > >> > >> ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ > >> > >> That path does not seem to have it. > >> > > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/9.0/ > > Errr... except of course that is -RELEASE and you asked for -STABLE. I > don't believe there's a 9.0-STABLE snapshot available at freebsd.org > right now. Instead, try one from here: > > > ftp://ftp.allbsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-snapshots/amd64-amd64/9.0-RELENG_9-20120329-JPSNAP/ > > There's a new snapshot available there pretty much daily. > Thanks Matthew. I do recall downloading a STABLE ISO a while back, make that a few years back. It was a 7.0-STABLE image. I guess they are not there any more :-( -- Mike Of course, you might discount this possibility, but remember that one in a million chances happen 99% of the time. ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 08:25:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90D21065670 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:25:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33BC68FC14 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:25:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FBF32C.dip.t-dialin.net [217.251.243.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q2U8P5Vo037841; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:25:06 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2U8OsnO025028; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:24:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2U8Og4s094939; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:24:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201203300824.q2U8Og4s094939@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Mike Barnard From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:32:39 +0300." Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:24:42 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Stable Image X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:25:14 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: Mike Barnard > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:32:39 +0300 > Message-id: Mike Barnard wrote: > On 29 March 2012 19:22, Matthew Seaman wrote: > > > On 29/03/2012 17:18, Matthew Seaman wrote: > > > On 29/03/2012 17:10, Mike Barnard wrote: > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> Any one know where I can get a FreeBSD-9.0-STABLE ISO/IMG image? > > >> > > >> ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/FreeBSD-stable/ > > >> > > >> That path does not seem to have it. > > >> > > > > > > ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/9.0/ > > > > Errr... except of course that is -RELEASE and you asked for -STABLE. I > > don't believe there's a 9.0-STABLE snapshot available at freebsd.org > > right now. Instead, try one from here: > > > > > > ftp://ftp.allbsd.org/pub/FreeBSD-snapshots/amd64-amd64/9.0-RELENG_9-20120329-JPSNAP/ > > > > There's a new snapshot available there pretty much daily. > > > > Thanks Matthew. > > I do recall downloading a STABLE ISO a while back, make that a few years > back. It was a 7.0-STABLE image. I guess they are not there any more :-( With advent of 9 release, various paths that had a single i386 or amd64 etc in, now have a double set in the path name. But all the old 8,7,6 etc paths retain use of single $ARCH. Other than that I dont think there's been other path name changes. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 13:00:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1233) id 83A0E10656B9; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:00:51 +0000 From: Alexander Best To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120330130051.GA62102@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Subject: question regarding geom labels X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:00:51 -0000 hi there, i have a question regarding a label for a swap partition. when should i do the labeling? after or before creating the partition scheme? when i label before creating the partition scheme, likes this: glabel label -v swap /dev/da0 gpart create -s GPT /dev/da0 i get the following warning: GEOM: da1: the secondary GPT header is not in the last LBA. which is obvious, because the label is being written into the last LBA and thus the backup GPT header gets written into the last-1 LBA. if i create the partitioning scheme before labeling the device, like this: gpart create -s GPT /dev/da0 glabel label -v swap /dev/da0 or gpart create -s GPT /dev/da0 gpart add -t freebsd-swap /dev/da0 glabel label -v swap /dev/da0p1 the label gets written into da0 or da0p1 and is at constant risk of being overwritten by userdata. cheers. alex From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 14:16:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDD4F1065672 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:16:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from krjeschke@omniti.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858998FC23 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:16:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbwc18 with SMTP id wc18so1078693obb.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:16:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-gm-message-state :content-type; bh=cOtWW0J9WhR6dke3AFp81tAPbaQBZp8OhgrlXdaTUjg=; b=dhMHubDVd8P28j5NlmPupfpdbDDea8TeIamYX599kuKYrebUi0LruUcAqcKTZsnJLD LdgWDaHXohvTnrVqrAl52ppfDSMGhAx7kCZXmBpzL28Qf5aN0B5VqjAOIKCugTH88w5u 2Yd991Ff9ws2/D89jcIu/RYLUZk9DP2W1ID1hCmFynqeJQzO2kTmx3gWMEa3Cz4M4uZM FEg70vl+eDv/S89HixsWRrvW/1Cwe6BEZw2WWw5tqRWuyohX/vZfC+8RO99G6nSlXBqX iiBj41R3XUm/EiNep7+0DQBqKYqWVztwpSgvz4sJUROdVrUmMV6rpar5M/s09aM09ovH BUBw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.11.100 with SMTP id p4mr3065697obb.63.1333116963835; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.23.103 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:16:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: Katherine Jeschke To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQluLa6nVQUbPVLA++1yHzRQU9QedewsZ3Fos6OemxI1/tTLebDNMD/mve/aP6FYYBCSE3zJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Surge 2012 CFP is Open! X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:16:04 -0000 Surge 2012, the scalability conference, September 27-28, Baltimore, MD has opened its CFP. Please visit http://omniti.com/surge/2012/cfp for details. -- Katherine Jeschke Director of Marketing and Creative Services OmniTI Computer Consulting, Inc. 7070 Samuel Morse Drive, Ste.150 Columbia, MD 21046 O: 443-325-1357, 222 F: 410/872-4911 C: 443/643-6140 omniti.com Surge2012: http://omniti.com/surge/2012 PG Corridor Days - DC: http://pgday.bwpug.org/ The information contained in this electronic message and any attached documents is privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, note that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this electronic message or any attached documents is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately by telephone (1-443-325-1360) or by electronic mail (info@omniti.com). Thank you. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 14:42:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376D11065678; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:42:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail1.sol.net (mail1.sol.net [206.55.64.72]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF4CC8FC14; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:42:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail1.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2UEfrqW075204; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:41:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2UEfqIE097518; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:41:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203301441.q2UEfqIE097518@aurora.sol.net> To: dougb@FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:41:52 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <4F74FA8C.8060108@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Mark Felder , freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:42:09 -0000 > On 3/29/2012 7:01 AM, Joe Greco wrote: > >> On 3/28/2012 1:59 PM, Mark Felder wrote: > >>> FreeBSD 8-STABLE, 8.3, and 9.0 are untested > >> > >> As much as I'm sensitive to your production requirements, realistically > >> it's not likely that you'll get a helpful result without testing a newer > >> version. 8.2 came out over a year ago, many many things have changed > >> since then. > >> > >> Doug > > > > So you're saying that he should have been using 8.3-RELEASE, then. > > That isn't what I said at all, sorry if I wasn't clear. The OP mentioned > 9.0-RELEASE, and in the context of his message (which I snipped) he > mentioned 8-stable. That's what I was referring to. And since both the poster and I made it clear that this doesn't seem to be a case of "it fails reliably on a machine of your choosing", just installing random other versions and hoping that it's going to cause a fail ... well, let's just say that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Or at least it's a recipe for a hell of a lot of busywork, busywork not guaranteed to return any sort of useful result. What you suggest is a fine solution for "My ASUS Sempron box fails when I do X!" -- in such a case, "Try a different version of FreeBSD" makes lots of sense. The problem is, in a virtualization environment, theoretically the virtual hosts are all the same sort of hardware (modulo any specific configuration changes of course), so when someone presents a problem that afflicts only a percentage of their VM's, it is important to keep in mind that you are not interacting with physical hardware, and that reinstalling an OS on a "problem" VM...? Well, let's just say I like real hardware better for many reasons. In the meantime, it's unrealistic to tell people to use supported releases, to wait fifteen months between releases, and then to criticize people complaining about problems with a supported release for "using old code". ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 14:43:01 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7899C1065673; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:43:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359948FC15; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:43:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2UEh0b5057654; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:43:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q2UEh0Fi057651; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:43:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:43:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Alexander Best In-Reply-To: <20120330130051.GA62102@freebsd.org> Message-ID: References: <20120330130051.GA62102@freebsd.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: question regarding geom labels X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:43:01 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012, Alexander Best wrote: > i have a question regarding a label for a swap partition. when should i do the > labeling? after or before creating the partition scheme? > > when i label before creating the partition scheme, likes this: > > glabel label -v swap /dev/da0 > gpart create -s GPT /dev/da0 > > i get the following warning: > > GEOM: da1: the secondary GPT header is not in the last LBA. > > which is obvious, because the label is being written into the last LBA and thus > the backup GPT header gets written into the last-1 LBA. Right. Don't do that, the GPT backup header needs to be at the end of the physical device. If you're using that whole disk for swap, there's no need for a partition anyway. > if i create the partitioning scheme before labeling the device, like this: > > gpart create -s GPT /dev/da0 > glabel label -v swap /dev/da0 > > or > > gpart create -s GPT /dev/da0 > gpart add -t freebsd-swap /dev/da0 > glabel label -v swap /dev/da0p1 > > the label gets written into da0 or da0p1 and is at constant risk of being > overwritten by userdata. No. The swap device entered in /etc/fstab would be /dev/label/swap, which is one block smaller than da0p1. That's the last-block metadata, it's safe. But if the whole disk is for swap, skip the partitioning entirely. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 14:45:00 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8809106566C; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:45:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail2.sol.net (mail2.sol.net [206.55.64.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CDA08FC0A; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:45:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail2.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2UEilR2081441; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:44:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2UEilmj097567; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:44:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203301444.q2UEilmj097567@aurora.sol.net> To: feld@feld.me (Mark Felder) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:44:47 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:45:00 -0000 > On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:27:31 -0500, Joe Greco wrote: > > > It also doesn't explain the experience here, where one VM basically > > crapped out but only after a migration - and then stayed crapped out. > > It would be interesting to hear about your datastore, how busy it is, > > what technology, whether you're using thin, etc. I just have this real > > strong feeling that it's some sort of corruption with the vmfs3 and thin > > provisioned disk format, but it'd be interesting to know if that's > > totally off-track. > > We've ruled out SAN, but we haven't ruled out VMFS. Even FreeBSD Guests on > standalone ESXi servers with no SAN exhibit this crash. > > For the record, we only use thick provisioning and if it was corruption > I'm not sure what layer the corruption could be at. The crashy servers > show no abnormalities when I run either `freebsd-update IPS` or > `pkg_libchk` to confirm checksums of all installed programs. Now the other > data on there... it's not exactly verified, but our backups via rsnapshot > seem to prove there is no issue there or we'd have lots of new files each > run. Crud, there goes part of my theory :-) Have you migrated these hosts, or were they installed in-place and never moved? fwiw the apparent integrity of things on the VM is consistent with our experience too. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 14:51:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271EC1065673; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:51:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10488FC17; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:51:25 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=o4Ce77kmHr3KnMtdiWZITrJaJitx5eitxIblFPBzrqY=; b=Uxr0MBW58BQiw7SuZTO2rLE+aoFQKbYHnCxAB43B5819hYfGOr1tOynQp5V7qHibqSm8nHJb79Q3GwW0vsj1rwaHpBD8sc/49LTbAnP1YmPi1K8p7fo7pBIaPrqdxbeF; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDdAe-0004zs-FC; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:51:25 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333119074-20726-20725/5/35; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:51:14 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <201203300027.q2U0RVZS085304@aurora.sol.net> <201203301444.q2UEilmj097567@aurora.sol.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:51:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <201203301444.q2UEilmj097567@aurora.sol.net> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Joe Greco Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:51:26 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:44:47 -0500, Joe Greco wrote: > Have you migrated these hosts, or were they installed in-place and > never moved? > fwiw the apparent integrity of things on the VM is consistent with > our experience too. VMMotion and StorageVMMotion does not seem to affect the stability. Even deleting the VM, rebuilding from scratch, re-installing all packages from scratch, copying over a few configs and then copying in any other data (perhaps website data) does not solve the problem. However, our two most notorious for crashing happen to be webservers. We moved one to hardware. We simply rsync'd the exact data (entire OS and files) off the VM onto hardware, made a few config changes (fstab, network interface) and it's been running for 4+ months now with zero crashes. I don't think it's corruption :/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 15:14:24 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995EC106567B for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:14:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (feld.me [66.170.3.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9738FC17 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:14:24 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:To:Content-Type; bh=tyGfU1HqygERKL2uei56LN4IXcNn5nDhq+ewjRLQW84=; b=m92D4eVpXUSRkAB3mWCYu1GzVTM7/MMW8L6Yz/PyrWHLTMDXpL8hKRNIrvk6pUghSYqNSrmrVGnOuhW4UM2fEOBSK97ozxdBHxg55s5KvZMEyJcda/JC2Geagc4zBADx; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDdVf-0005Xp-LP for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:13:08 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333120377-20726-20725/5/36; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:12:57 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <4F75099C.3030606@dichotomia.fr> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:12:57 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4F75099C.3030606@dichotomia.fr> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:14:24 -0000 We don't have any indications that before the crash processes will take unusual amounts of CPU. The only time there is high CPU usage is at the point where it does enter the crashed state and no longer seems to be able to communicate with the disk. I'm not sure this is the same bug but we'll keep an eye out for it. Thanks for reporting your experience! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 16:53:14 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A88106566B; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:53:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jgreco@aurora.sol.net) Received: from mail1.sol.net (mail1.sol.net [206.55.64.72]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462EF8FC1F; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:53:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from aurora.sol.net (IDENT:jgreco@aurora.sol.net [206.55.70.98]) by mail1.sol.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/SNNS-1.04) with ESMTP id q2UGrAT1077862; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:53:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by aurora.sol.net (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id q2UGrAEY098765; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:53:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <201203301653.q2UGrAEY098765@aurora.sol.net> To: feld@feld.me (Mark Felder) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:53:10 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:53:14 -0000 > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:44:47 -0500, Joe Greco wrote: > > Have you migrated these hosts, or were they installed in-place and > > never moved? > > fwiw the apparent integrity of things on the VM is consistent with > > our experience too. > > VMMotion and StorageVMMotion does not seem to affect the stability. Even > deleting the VM, rebuilding from scratch, re-installing all packages from > scratch, copying over a few configs and then copying in any other data > (perhaps website data) does not solve the problem. On the same vmdk files? "Deleting the VM" makes it sound like not. > However, our two most notorious for crashing happen to be webservers. We > moved one to hardware. We simply rsync'd the exact data (entire OS and > files) off the VM onto hardware, made a few config changes (fstab, network > interface) and it's been running for 4+ months now with zero crashes. That part doesn't shock me at all. > I don't think it's corruption :/ Then it is hard to see what it is. >From my perspective: We had a perfectly functional, nearly zero-traffic VM, since Jabber traffic averages no more than a few messages per hour. It was working for quite some time. We moved it from a local datastore to an iSCSI datastore that ended up getting periodically crushed by the load (in particular during the periodic daily load imposed by a bunch of VM's all running at once). At this point, this one VM started hanging on I/O. We expected that this would clear up upon return to a host with a local datastore. It did not. This ended up as a broken VM, one that would hang up overnite, maybe not every night, but several times a week at least. But wait: None of the other VM's, even the VM's that had been abused in this horribly insensitive manner of being placed on intolerably slow iSCSI, developed this condition. There are dozens of other VM's running on these hosts, alongside the one that was exhibiting this behaviour. The VM continued to exhibit this behaviour even after having been moved onto a different ESXi platform and architecture (Opteron->Xeon). For the problem to "follow" the VM in this manner, and afflict *only* the one VM, strongly suggests that it is something that is contained within the VM files that constitute this VM. That is consistent with the observation that the problem arose at a point where the VM is known to have had all those files moved from one location to a dodgy location. That's why I believe the evidence points to corruption of some sort. Of course, your case makes this all interesting. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 17:12:43 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 933B9106566B; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574898FC08; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:12:43 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=HNh4+lFCp7YHA6nqBBsBT3YjTTPmBu3RxFmFbbgPmAU=; b=Ha/oAjvHKRwM0jiQ14d0MzyGWYYhEYJJxMidcVtX1HkJOdZ2uqxgfXJIsMGTQK/2OGFV3tL5w04Un0Dxnru5PxRgT/a/zW6vBV7CT6MWsH/+n9icuK0hhLQvYWIrDIxn; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SDfNR-0008f8-5t; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:12:42 -0500 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpa id 1333127555-20726-20725/5/37; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:12:35 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201203300027.q2U0RVZS085304@aurora.sol.net> <201203301444.q2UEilmj097567@aurora.sol.net> <201203301653.q2UGrAEY098765@aurora.sol.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:12:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <201203301653.q2UGrAEY098765@aurora.sol.net> User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.62 (FreeBSD) X-SA-Score: -1.5 Cc: Joe Greco Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:12:43 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:53:10 -0500, Joe Greco wrote: > On the same vmdk files? "Deleting the VM" makes it sound like not. Fresh new VMDK files every time, and always thick provisioned. > None of the other VM's, even the VM's that had been abused in this > horribly insensitive manner of being placed on intolerably slow iSCSI, > developed this condition. We've seen similar results. Baffling how VMs you know are worse off never develop this condition. > There are dozens of other VM's running on these hosts, alongside the > one that was exhibiting this behaviour. > The VM continued to exhibit this behaviour even after having been moved > onto a different ESXi platform and architecture (Opteron->Xeon). > For the problem to "follow" the VM in this manner, and afflict *only* > the one VM, strongly suggests that it is something that is contained > within the VM files that constitute this VM. That is consistent with > the observation that the problem arose at a point where the VM is > known to have had all those files moved from one location to a dodgy > location. We were hoping that was the explanation as well, but rebuilding the VM entirely from scratch on a new host and seeing the crash come back was a big blow to morale. :( > That's why I believe the evidence points to corruption of some sort. > Of course, your case makes this all interesting. For the last year I've been convinced it's something hidden inside ESXi's I/O virtualization layer that happens to trigger on only certain VMs. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 17:22:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1115510656D5 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:22:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karel@lovetemple.net) Received: from mta-13.siol.net (mta-13.siol.net [193.189.160.143]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439BD8FC20 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:22:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CMGW-Slovenia ([10.10.10.103]) by mta-13.siol.net with ESMTP id <20120330153839.DZQQ21468.mta-13.siol.net@CMGW-Slovenia> for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:39 +0200 Received: from gate.unitedpeople.net ([109.182.143.91]) by CMGW-Slovenia with Cloudmark Gateway id rreC1i00B1yXmwl01reCnN; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:13 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.149] (tp.unitedpeople.net [192.168.0.149]) by gate.unitedpeople.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2UFcadm014892 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:38 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from karel@lovetemple.net) Message-ID: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200 From: Karel Miklav User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120221 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=sFIuSk0YAHMCDFtMxm5MJOHoinLf/9djr2YM5nM0ePA= c=1 sm=0 a=0WghQSSgRgQA:10 a=ZEoGS5-bsn0A:10 a=tJBb3fvPeHMA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=6B50nmuao_iXhea5MqwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Subject: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:22:50 -0000 Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? -- Thanks, Karel From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 17:54:35 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F49106564A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:54:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pldrouin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1008FC17 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:54:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iahk25 with SMTP id k25so1719035iah.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:54:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=iGoFqSMLeNvshZRphiRIr4gSClK4P7nmNKPM3RhC9kU=; b=CEXi65bW5gSa7jpfynziDBrNg98urXM2Z5fr+7NVKIQojLfTt8T1nhUhw3KDIhr+HQ ByfGkGmB2ZrDrOF6XkFNPM54KukojPuBsudqn4DADKwfKXduKXGhJ+A+SWVhnR3aVhek FfPpoMXdU2S+rxpvi7XXueBSvHAtsNRgRCT16yk3FyjKwqpz+sEE48bQvmzmUzwUmspL Si3woMYD/rESEGOiOYNG6erTuQKblz22Z2z3Qc4qBYoL9E4iCBOzgTsCoVKfwxumWi0R gOL0CO35Egv6NTzkKvdpg0htZ05RTHAsQPsYme+0ghSxz++lf4cQnYq5RwNpVPUHBVzT 0qEQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.186.161 with SMTP id fl1mr37844igc.44.1333130074874; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Sender: pldrouin@gmail.com Received: by 10.50.203.104 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:54:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:54:34 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0BoYw18VtL1hdekSw67MBF6u7vo Message-ID: From: Pierre-Luc Drouin To: Karel Miklav Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:54:35 -0000 On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Karel Miklav wrote: > Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with > FreeBSD? > > HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to > shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, > but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper > alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? > > -- > > Thanks, > Karel > ______________________________**_________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-** > unsubscribe@freebsd.org " > I have a postscript laser printer (HP LaserJet 1200) and the PCL HPIJS driver is faster anyway, so I am not sure how much you can gain with these printers? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 18:11:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0613106566B; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:11:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kc5vdj.freebsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx0-f182.google.com (mail-yx0-f182.google.com [209.85.213.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71EBB8FC0A; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:11:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yenl9 with SMTP id l9so639731yen.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JcvIZoKxuWZqLyCWgwKDXR3J1aisKNxb3SBIRtOQlmI=; b=WHsy+d/t0Gq6AHBxySJG5Fr0/mNa+G4A/+/RfTAqLhUzPO4otyGJd9+Y9sQFFCc+gQ RbGzmH5H5pLB0dkshEYLRMjN0XkWBnfrvPGasH4jnYD8MxFkrRqg0ATcFbbf1efn6NgC hGcnKrhDWoYglK1EK08HpxzAv3d80zUt/Y4UmjY01jwWUqecbXpLw0PGwFP/SGciilsM vhRunywk8YUdd5AKNoAT8EFMgSdb3gusAJjq6qmDRecmi2rLnrJ1ZWCPTDfYwqOqHrdn sVZbjzP92vd0rlJLGdmedsqb28ecacEFzvq9OQYJtKKH1jpuMey5WAQu2UpetKcNcb4G Ds0A== Received: by 10.50.184.166 with SMTP id ev6mr45058igc.63.1333131063460; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from argus.electron-tube.net (173-28-218-168.client.mchsi.com. [173.28.218.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vr4sm9946845igb.1.2012.03.30.11.10.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F75F732.30308@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:10:58 -0500 From: Jim Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20100911) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Felder References: <4F749141.8010109@gmail.com> <20120329132430.13dc08e7@scorpio> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, jerry@seibercom.net, FreeBSD Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose this crazy VMWare/FreeBSD 8.x crash X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:11:04 -0000 Mark Felder wrote: > On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:24:30 -0500, wrote: > >> >> I just started reading this tread, but I am wondering if I missed >> something here. What does this have to do with "Windows 7"? > > I emailed him off-list but I'm guessing he thought this was on VMWare > Workstation or another product that would virtualize FreeBSD on top of > Windows as the host OS. > _______________________________________________ > Correct...My bad. jim From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 19:17:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA241106566B for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:17:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874808FC14 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:17:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2UJH281058922; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:17:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q2UJH2iw058919; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:17:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:17:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Karel Miklav In-Reply-To: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Message-ID: References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:17:03 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012, Karel Miklav wrote: > Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? > > HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to > shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, > but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper > alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? The Phaser 6500 has some good specifications. Genuine Adobe PostScript 3, gigabit Ethernet, 24 PPM. The duty cycle is 4,000 pages per month, which is very low. Toner is expensive. Reviews are somewhat mixed. It should work with FreeBSD, certainly for text. For graphics output, Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500, but one of the similar printers probably will work. Don't expect photo quality, color lasers have to do halftones. The alternative is a black and white laser (LaserJet 4050, still one of the best all-around lasers, used for $50-$150) and an inkjet for reluctant, eventual, stripy color printing. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 19:43:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E429F106566B for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:43:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrewlylegould@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vx0-f182.google.com (mail-vx0-f182.google.com [209.85.220.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 937AA8FC1A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:43:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by vcmm1 with SMTP id m1so884088vcm.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:43:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=KLMj1fFnOX+zAKscybtxbjoUyVdO39n8/UZ662MZ6TA=; b=SlBRMZ464dtCJCjoRMMNNqCLkMChTP+5YGiM/OvTTW+eVHbqzllW3ItV6U+XYgf/GF eNVPZUPOm3zs1LP5D9q97QLw6ULQFYEwWVUpSZ+ynGb0pO/KSu/b8VZ9/ssabb5079Js xRrIF/ar1Gndrbsq1yOEMYRxbpdxiiHI1SVsI6gZl0IguztmJ60kuGhoi2v9qDArpovh 975yMpQJAtu0E5MByolqWj1rDZvPOD4OhtbDk3Ra/WVWotrZKGBHUZU9zI3F3tbrn+hr TC1zIRVUrmtiQlUvwiOuSiEi/h1bgiAWpK/ySpYFtvXph/oDfMKLo9RqpOHlwmX5pJdq 8X0g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.106.144 with SMTP id x16mr1563395vco.63.1333136585663; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.201.201 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.201.201 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:43:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:43:04 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andrew Gould To: Karel Miklav Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:43:13 -0000 Do you need it to be a laser printer? The Lexmark Pro915 is an inkjet all-on-one that speaks Postscript. I print over wireless network via cups. When I need to scan, I scan to a usb thumb drive. It will store scanned images as jpeg or pdf. Regards, Andrew On Mar 30, 2012 12:24 PM, "Karel Miklav" wrote: Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? -- Thanks, Karel ______________________________**_________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/**mailman/listinfo/freebsd-**questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-** unsubscribe@freebsd.org " From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 19:45:02 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 652C61065673 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:45:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CABC38FC17 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:45:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FBF32C.dip.t-dialin.net [217.251.243.44]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q2UJiwxJ042086; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:44:59 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2UJil20027722; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:44:47 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2UJiZiI015736; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:44:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201203301944.q2UJiZiI015736@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Karel Miklav From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200." <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:44:35 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:45:02 -0000 Karel Miklav wrote: > Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? > > HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like > to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks > nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper > alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? Postscript printers make [more] sense If: - Corporate use .. maybe ? - Trying to offload connected PC CPU (rarely need to for home use, now PCs are fast). - Coms link to printer is slow Worst case: I once had a serial cable to a serial to parallel converter, then you notice how big PCL data is. especially if doing own font rendering, not using printer built in font sets, ( I made my own Russian font sets once). So now CPU load no longer an issue, & as these days an ethernet to centronics type converter is cheap, connect any old PCL laser with centronics (eg my Old HP 4L cost me ~ 3 beers) Ghostscript converts { PS & PDF etc } to PCL, called automatically as a filter from /etc/printcap I wrote my own filter, http://berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/jhs/bin/local/lpf_vsl/lpf_vsl before becoming aware there's a standard one: /usr/ports/print/apsfilter There's a section in the Handbook about CUPS you should read For some new HP USB you want certain options in & out of kernel. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 20:16:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962FA1065672 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:16:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike.jeays@rogers.com) Received: from nm21-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm21-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.91.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 642078FC1A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:16:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.91.70] by nm21.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2012 20:16:21 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.69] by tm10.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2012 20:14:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1006.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Mar 2012 20:14:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 834705.28104.bm@omp1006.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 82452 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2012 20:14:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ORmyjas0aG+qLWHlpwo/9D9KhoRTlXlRVWx7lcuTbPYA15o3bf44Wwn4cFnSlviWyswKQFN9BDuTE1L0zGCvOp2f4GK9289O/TomiGeW/fW+AyZACDeuPRkNViOXAWrMMHOLxbPj22JF2zgvyvd14kIJV8LTpgrYe+nrb2a73+M= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1333138461; bh=H7xGoCGMRl8H0veRvgkkbMilb7zwMkhaCcfP+FRvoZw=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=iDo2NNTQW0aEOZAGvRYbyPb7ZRj44OeknXpK6Kib9wSkM1PvPJmVNyhTLNLQy592bKe/ibR7hggFsRG3EL5oT7OrThdtzMYdWRdAl5tRI2R2ur8Knz/W5gcMa9fRthhnXyna9oY1G7xOyk5YBpq0PVwwZcdopMTelK/w78oJDh8= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: WS3w.54VM1nrBCMe2Oe0Kqz.yUByaXo_3pNi4qcHSmWfrcY lPewBSp_HTeu8dqHJMSUSqnIzBtLoay14pdrGnkAx.97MqpHbn0E6FKGsTHZ _syCQ8c4yi0Lp_F_9SsfUv2PWfecgaYpUhnMSo24t9XvKt98ZSKun2QRSoRl wBrLNW8Kj_Y_V3EUro82dRHjsTUIaYdnZ45WEA6KcBeX_qKmDjHp3ubT6KLs xJOpDf5FDSh3XA5A2asCSQVZ_KhjQ6fToRu.taysq0Hjz6vDCAmwwA1L0OQR lVnR9adATh26HrIHACe_qAs63DRNz.5OMjjQJoKnOaspa37cBz5i.n5tRbxi 6nxbqWwNqfF.6prXA6vIMyMW55zCzfOZ9uBsreq3F5vKXlDuQxyiGdd.EClO AOUWoujx0K.PTELiRvs0Sqac71Tr8zgDTEWU_SPidbrwP X-Yahoo-SMTP: N82WFx6swBBjwcHWPFR2CGt6udzA8RPrA.xm0enFFXaK2g-- Received: from europa (mike.jeays@99.224.68.20 with login) by smtp104.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2012 13:14:21 -0700 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 From: Mike Jeays To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> In-Reply-To: References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8 (GTK+ 2.24.4; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:16:27 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Warren Block wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012, Karel Miklav wrote: > > > Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? > > > > HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like to > > shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks nice, > > but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper > > alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? > > The Phaser 6500 has some good specifications. Genuine Adobe PostScript > 3, gigabit Ethernet, 24 PPM. The duty cycle is 4,000 pages per month, > which is very low. Toner is expensive. Reviews are somewhat mixed. > > It should work with FreeBSD, certainly for text. For graphics output, > Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500, but one of > the similar printers probably will work. Don't expect photo quality, > color lasers have to do halftones. > > The alternative is a black and white laser (LaserJet 4050, still one of > the best all-around lasers, used for $50-$150) and an inkjet for > reluctant, eventual, stripy color printing. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the lack of colour, IMO. I have used an HP 1020 for three years now, and it works fine after three cartridges. I had an inkjet fail at the first cartridge change, after I bought new cartridges. (EPSON - never again). From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 20:31:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C80E106566B for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:31:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexmiroslav@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551C28FC12 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:31:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbwc18 with SMTP id wc18so1584193obb.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:31:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KRr5lolfGSmDXTF5U6+tYHmHAkMSGl8pedLUW+F7jws=; b=HzflaGeoRx6Bj3y4Wf/E/36lrh0Yrdbby9XDdrimvS+vffbWIw5qR+doL81KcEdmWb JF77GdI6qh4YabpWozYtHHpd1p1+EM19Qb9PSSOpGbX6IG/ataI88TcP7U5w3OG7VYdH ukLvlRRc0xk5fOSxO/l1XrlWGRopMwg2i1c5+qRaVJcFHC0PrAe9XsKuoJPt1aqaNW4i d8+Q8FbgJcFntfIWKHPT6CtZ9aVGiQJXm/1LYrR21GpDuQ8cElKki7keSGz1/Xdv32Bt aMXAvBu6IywG0gp8DBaBjzvSA400EztdPp1cW8u4W2rJYgKDjzQEf4A+TQH5SyVUA9Rd 9NqA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.15.102 with SMTP id w6mr4808198obc.6.1333139509701; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.143.104 with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:31:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Aleksandr Miroslav To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: how often to update ports? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 20:31:50 -0000 How often do you folks update your ports/packages. I was manging two servers for years for my personal web/email, and I've rarely gone for more than 3 months with any single package being not up to date, usually about once a month I would update all my ports. Recently, in the past few months or so, I've added several more servers, I currently have around 10 servers that I'm managing, and because of changes in my work schedule, it has become somewhat quite tedious to do this (keep ports updated as frequently, I mean). >From what I've gleaned from this list and other BSD mailing lists that I'm on, is that some people don't update their port-installed packages nearly as frequently (security patches/updates aside). Some people go for months/years without doing so. So I'm curious, how often do you keep your ports update, and what are the reasons for doing so? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 21:05:11 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A2F106564A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:05:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C6348FC17 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:05:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.36]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 30 Mar 2012 17:05:04 -0400 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BRE93394; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:05:02 -0400 Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 30 Mar 2012 17:05:02 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20342.8190.220626.639706@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:05:02 -0400 To: Aleksandr Miroslav In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: how often to update ports? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:05:11 -0000 Aleksandr Miroslav writes: > How often do you folks update your ports/packages. I was manging > two servers for years for my personal web/email, and I've rarely > gone for more than 3 months with any single package being not up > to date, usually about once a month I would update all my ports. Security updates go in as soon as they can be tested locally. Everything else ... within a couple of days, unless a) others report problems, or b) it requires a lot of re-building dependant ports (e.g. perl, X, autotools). Caveats: no machine is mission-critical; most are lightly loaded; spares are available. Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 21:22:08 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BAB106564A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:22:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-gx0-f182.google.com (mail-gx0-f182.google.com [209.85.161.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD2708FC0A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:22:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ggnk4 with SMTP id k4so772686ggn.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:22:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/Sl9RmGpw9hi0hJ2ayUb8nbR14EINTsOdeWqVZLYAy8=; b=bgVKwIr4V5BDi/xNveBxMJDiIoZujfnOwJDV9K4+ulFyzMTM/mgP75A38EyxltrqPF oREOHeQlXufqq0nyXPTKSzR/LzPWY8Tpf6epmbhqv6RuL/vTaOo12OgDlqgGfvTsQIJ2 iF51+yJ11b9RYPPYzNpkDjuIeUGnHkqtd/tgpno9LxQP3X/iBvuKtVfHcjMA5uFANUxb Iwsz+fIBLviH3PWZwfAjon+TMrszg52l5dNOqQ8gBsK7MaAKC8Z7oPYRaquJOo/lcHJB Z97FSgLxCrDkP2nWhwykFEguwU3gQ127n0SVLdDsoyYZzpif6tFuuzeGGDZNAKf/nDvc nIcA== Received: by 10.236.78.72 with SMTP id f48mr3400911yhe.121.1333142526947; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e45sm27879123yhk.2.2012.03.30.14.22.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3VKG451NNMz2CG5d for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:21:56 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120330172156.5582d07d@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmwKEOAH+riCEZUsyulSkf+R8BKxDjB34QwqyQSA7ZhMBwaqCYvVl56ZQPGRhYQFDmN9N5n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:22:08 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays articulated: > I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home > use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily > worth the lack of colour, IMO. I have used an HP 1020 for three years > now, and it works fine after three cartridges. I had an inkjet fail > at the first cartridge change, after I bought new cartridges. (EPSON > - never again). I know several students that purchase inexpensive ink-jet printers that work perfectly. When the ink runs out, they just replace the unit. The cost is about the same. I could replace probably four cheap ink-jet units for what it is gong to cost me just to replace the cartridges in my Brother Laser Color unit. Then when you factor in the other parts that eventually will need replacement, it really gets expensive. -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 21:23:17 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 831DB106564A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:23:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41D098FC17 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:23:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52A63CEA6; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:23:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2ULN7b2002129; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:23:08 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:23:07 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Karel Miklav Message-Id: <20120330232307.41e420b1.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:23:17 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200, Karel Miklav wrote: > Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? > > HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like > to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks > nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper > alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? Allow me to mention some things that are worth investing in. 1. Network connection. Don't bother with USB stuff. Buy a printer that offers Ethernet and maybe also WLAN, this will save you many trouble, and you are free to put the printer wherever you want. 2. Standard language. Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least one of them. PCL is very common among HP printers. Regarding drivers - you don't need them. PS is the default output format for printing from every application. Printer filter collections such as apsfilter or CUPS tend to support non-PS printers very well, and it's quite easy to write your own printer filter (may even be a one-liner) using ghostscript. There's nothing wrong with PS because (as I said) you don't need any drivers, but the data transfer may need some time, and the processing speed depends on how fast and how good (!) the PS interpreter in the printer is. In my experience (with the printers I'm going to mention at the end of this message) PCL is faster. 3. Laser printer. Don't believe that inkpee printers are genereally cheaper. They are not. The only excuse for using them is that you need photo quality color prints (requiring the proper paper, too). 4. Additional functionalities. Before buying something, ask yourself what you need. Does it need to have a scanner? Does the scanner part support FreeBSD? Is there a way to "scan to local storage" (e. g. USB stick) in the printer? Does it need a sheet feeder for scan input? Does it need to scan photo positive/negative films? Does it need to fax? I have had good luck with my army of laser printers here. HP Laserjet II, 4, 4000 duplex, as well as a Samsung color laserprinter CLX-2160. All this stuff works out of the box. I don't have any need for inkpee. Photos can be printed at much better quality at my local drugstore, if I need that. The printer filters are gs one-liners I wrote myself, because I speak PCL to the laser printer, and some splix gibberish using foo2qpdl to the (sadly USB connected) color printer. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 21:48:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986BC106564A; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:48:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pgollucci@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3428E8FC12; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:48:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qcsg15 with SMTP id g15so759800qcs.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:48:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type; bh=/zBybrBuln9kbly/Skymo7i8wfSKMRUrKsn7ve8nC1Y=; b=BEM+rM1IHlnfNvM2+enuaFH07G9krLov3UveEQdiDrie01IIssP+gI+7Dv1gMYO5M3 5d+RR7WH+ywE0BDlEFdUCUD2e/MMYn5n8haWVvcMfojLJVkZKwO2wS1HiEe0KXYVc7tb qEmTVi7IWfcE3+KUmm4QFEL4X8jh+sovDpZnzFn8rJmaBJrOJrb8AWSE+QTEsNxMKT3W GA7Je/6zZCX8napojgFrCpFVU2n5s6gusYFhRdEOMDK3SFGVMBqvpSExrkmTnHtwQhWr dNVosDzSLOVpjOptEx7y0EaK3E7FvjGX3oMAoO6sw9nkdb7x0uppDyv8Ew7XcRD8h/mJ xiug== Received: by 10.224.41.206 with SMTP id p14mr506302qae.90.1333144086489; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from philip.hq.rws (wsip-174-79-184-239.dc.dc.cox.net. [174.79.184.239]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id er10sm5036928qab.16.2012.03.30.14.48.04 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F762A10.7040007@p6m7g8.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:48:00 +0000 From: "Philip M. Gollucci" Organization: P6M7G8 Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111029 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Philip M. Gollucci" References: <4F708223.4060803@p6m7g8.com> <4F7126BA.1000202@p6m7g8.com> <4F7280D7.8050409@p6m7g8.com> In-Reply-To: <4F7280D7.8050409@p6m7g8.com> X-Enigmail-Version: undefined Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigBF24FB9B78C49172C504C532" Cc: questions@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd 9.0-release + zfs + mysqld(percona) = kernel: swap zone exhausted, increase kern.maxswzone X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:48:07 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigBF24FB9B78C49172C504C532 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 03/28/12 03:09, Philip M. Gollucci wrote: > It works out to roughly 7.7GB from 32MB okay fine. > If I double it, that should give me 15.4GB from 64MB (still not enough)= =2E > If I 16x it that should give me 246GB from 512MB. Thats more my > physical ram + swap. Oh well. After reading several sparse articles/post, I've come to the conclusion that FreeBSD doesn't do well with SWAP > 32GB; however it does allow it. As such I decided to drop the swap to 8GB*2=3D16GB. Sadly that didn't help either after dropping kern.maxswzone back 2*thedefault which is apparently very near or the max you can up it and get more actual SWAPMETA space b/c of the limiting based on the number of total system pages. I'm still quite perplexed here. Please also the recent thread on -stable where someone has the same problem with ZFS/NFS. subject: 9-STABLE, ZFS, NFS, ggatec - suspected memory leak --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1024D/DB9B8C1C B90B FBC3 A3A1 C71A 8E70 3F8C 75B8 8FFB DB9B 8C1C Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354 Member, Apache Software Foundation Committer, FreeBSD Foundation Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc. Director Operations, Ridecharge Inc. Work like you don't need the money, love like you'll never get hurt, and dance like nobody's watching. --------------enigBF24FB9B78C49172C504C532 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFPdioUdbiP+9ubjBwRAuSmAKCFHrag6+MLQTd/rln3gHc32sfJfwCaA27P P37HPPn3hOn2b7hndDwVw2s= =iTbG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigBF24FB9B78C49172C504C532-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 22:32:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F22B5106564A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:32:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-f50.google.com (mail-wg0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B818FC14 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:32:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wgbds12 with SMTP id ds12so961509wgb.31 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:32:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=hbp6GCvt/W+8HtjRt6wSelPxB9XTnX8yF+f9MOvfJJ4=; b=CYr1U0TN8+ZkrhaRUcGhIij0vjDv3LTwdccZ2xcjhhDgZ3ANnhhkOx+ArPcdScqWyK i/7QVuPSGm2c05YyjpIUe7o4UjN3yBTjFxdmmowXS5TLPyoRY8cC/gIKDuH3fH4dMZJ8 rioFUIlISk0vgkftZt5b4TYuMTMTDYVkuvX3yRZXgqRtzCCc/EiB8/7ECKUgf7qKVhGT sxL3TCGL8ozApe8i9+6ZUDBohUCAyqsXtzTiK6fWy1mOPdPZRkFo34n6MwGn3p06paOY aKoEpaECYCfQX9Mb7lEHfUsto4ssGRJefVORhSqjbg2d6efMz2q6kx8UpmfQL71OSKiq ULUQ== Received: by 10.180.107.132 with SMTP id hc4mr488879wib.21.1333146766143; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk. [87.194.105.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n20sm16105933wiw.5.2012.03.30.15.32.44 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:32:41 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:32:48 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 Mike Jeays wrote: > I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home > use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily > worth the lack of colour, IMO. How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 30 22:59:13 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2B6106564A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:59:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from mail.monochrome.org (b4.ebbed1.client.atlantech.net [209.190.235.180]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B71C8FC0A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:59:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([192.168.1.11]) by mail.monochrome.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2UMx6Ov051166; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:59:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Hill To: RW In-Reply-To: <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> Message-ID: References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:59:13 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012, RW wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 > Mike Jeays wrote: > >> I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home >> use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily >> worth the lack of colour, IMO. > > How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in > terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the > consumables become perishables. In exactly that scenario, ink nozzles can dry out, rendering your inkjet printer inoperable. I only print every few weeks, and if I had to replace ink for every print just because it dried out, I think I might become angry. My laser printer works even after months of inactivity. For the record, I completely agree with Mike. I also would not buy a printer that did not speak Postscript. My PS-speaking LaserJet was working as fast as I could edit /etc/printcap - no CUPS, no drivers, no ghostscript, no filters. -- Chris Hill chris@monochrome.org ** [ Busy Expunging ] From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 01:13:51 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CDF3106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:13:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from arab@tangerine-army.co.uk) Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FB78FC0C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:13:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.1]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20120331011348.HWMK18388.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:13:48 +0100 Received: from [94.168.171.147] (helo=Mercury.universe.galaxy.lcl) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1SDmt2-0000Lv-HQ for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:13:48 +0100 Received: from Mercury.universe.galaxy.lcl ([fe80::b0b0:8497:b56e:9ced]) by Mercury.universe.galaxy.lcl ([fe80::b0b0:8497:b56e:9ced%11]) with mapi; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:13:02 +0100 From: Graeme Dargie To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Thread-Topic: Printer recommendation please Thread-Index: AQHNDpnsCk9dLc9m+E+Iysg2HZHLoZaDl/hQ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:13:02 +0000 Message-ID: <4C0F7421AA759346AF17299922AD57EB0A9F50@Mercury.universe.galaxy.lcl> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> In-Reply-To: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=R50lirqlHffDPPkwUlkuVa99MrvKdVWo//yz83qex8g= c=1 sm=0 a=Uh-h5KfwVtYA:10 a=OMdUhd4NiskA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=21Xa7ZLfAbRFBHoYAaEA:9 a=knUQYLk7osFcmS-aLpIA:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Subject: RE: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:13:51 -0000 DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci1mcmVlYnNkLXF1ZXN0 aW9uc0BmcmVlYnNkLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOm93bmVyLWZyZWVic2QtcXVlc3Rpb25zQGZyZWVic2Qu b3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgS2FyZWwgTWlrbGF2DQpTZW50OiAzMCBNYXJjaCAyMDEyIDE2OjM5 DQpUbzogZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnNAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFByaW50ZXIgcmVj b21tZW5kYXRpb24gcGxlYXNlDQoNCkNvdWxkIHlvdSBwbGVhc2UgcmVjb21tZW5kIG1lIGEgaG9t ZSBwcmludGVyIHRoYXQgd29ya3MgbmljZWx5IHdpdGggRnJlZUJTRD8NCg0KSFAgaW5ramV0cyBh cmVuJ3QgdGhhdCBiYWQsIEZyZWVCU0QgZHJpdmVycyBhcmUgYWxscmlnaHQsIGJ1dCBJJ2QgbGlr ZSB0byBzaGlmdCB0b3dhcmRzIHNvbWUga2luZCBvZiBQb3N0U2NyaXB0IGxhc2VyLiBYZXJveCBQ aGFzZXIgNjUwMCBsb29rcyBuaWNlLCBidXQgSSBjYW4gbm90IGVjb25vbWljYWxseSBqdXN0aWZ5 IG15IGFwcGV0aXRlLiBJcyB0aGVyZSBhIGNoZWFwZXIgYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgb3IgbWF5YmUgUG9z dFNjcmlwdCBwcmludGVycyBhcmVuJ3QgdGhhdCBnb29kIGlkZWEgYW55d2F5LCBoZWg/DQoNCi0t DQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkthcmVsDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnNAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpo dHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9mcmVlYnNkLXF1ZXN0aW9u cw0KVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIHNlbmQgYW55IG1haWwgdG8gImZyZWVic2QtcXVlc3Rpb25zLXVu c3Vic2NyaWJlQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnIg0KDQpOb3QgZXhhY3RseSBjb25jbHVzaXZlLCBJIGhhdmUg YSBEZWxsIDEzMjBDIHdpdGggdGhlIEV0aGVybmV0IG1vZHVsZSwgYW5kIHdoaWxlIEkgaGF2ZSBu ZXZlciBuZWVkZWQgdG8gY29ubmVjdCBpdCB0byBvbmUgb2YgbXkgRnJlZUJTRCBtYWNoaW5lcywg aXQgd291bGQgd29yayB3aXRoIE9TIFggYW5kIENVUFMsIHNpbmNlIHRoZW4gRGVsbCBoYXMgcmVs ZWFzZWQgYW4gb2ZmaWNpYWwgZHJpdmVyIGZvciBPUyBYLiBIb3dldmVyIEkgYW0gbm90IHN1cmUg YXMgdG8gaG93IG11Y2ggdXNlIGFuIE9TIFggZHJpdmVyIHdvdWxkIGJlIGZvciBGcmVlQlNELCBm b3IgwqM5MCBJIGFtIHNhdGlzZmllZCB3aXRoIGl0cyBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZS4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcw0K DQpHcmFlbWUNCg== From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 01:52:50 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBDE1106566C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:52:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from schultz@ime.usp.br) Received: from hermes.ime.usp.br (hermes.ime.usp.br [143.107.45.4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5B38FC16 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:52:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arachne.ime.usp.br (arachne.ime.usp.br [143.107.45.22]) by hermes.ime.usp.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94718800176AC for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:26 -0300 (BRT) Received: by arachne.ime.usp.br (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8B0C736D6001; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300 (BRT) Received: from bd65dbab.virtua.com.br (bd65dbab.virtua.com.br [189.101.219.171]) by webmail.ime.usp.br (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300 Message-ID: <20120330224416.13643xk4rsfd2i5s@webmail.ime.usp.br> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300 From: schultz@ime.usp.br To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.3.10) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on hermes.ime.usp.br Subject: FreeBSD Security in Multiuser Environments X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:52:50 -0000 Hello, I would like to raise a discussion about the security features of FreeBSD as a whole and how they might be employed to actually derive some meaningful guarantees. I have found myself administering a system with many potentially untrusted users. Furthermore, some users do not trust some of the programs they run and are thus allowed to ask for some "slave" accounts. A "slave" account is a user account accessible only to root and the "master" user. This can lead to a hierachy of authority. Also, each account has potentially confidential data that may be accessed only by the account itself and its "ancestor" accounts. This includes when a user is logged on and what the user is running. Finally, the system must always be up so no user untrusted by root may trash it. This is a pretty harsh set of restrictions and is almost unmanageable. However, I have taken three steps to ensure security: base system hardening, using sudo for privilege granting and using rctl(8) for resource accounting and control. Gathering enough information in these three areas has been an ongoing task for almost half a year, and I would like to discuss some problems of my approach. In terms of system hardening, I have: * Encrypted the whole (except /boot) system with geli(8) (HMAC/SHA256 and AES-XTS). It is not as nice and much slower than proper filesystem-level checksumming but it is what FreeBSD provides (ZFS is too unstable). * Disabled useless and potentially dangerous services: cron, devd and sendmail. * Removed every setuid bit. The system works even then. * Hardened /dev: every non necessary device has had the 0007 bits stripped. Optional groups were created (e.g. audio, mixer and mic for devices /dev/{mixer,dsp,audio}*). * Hardened the sysctls: - security.bsd.see_other_uids=0: Users can only see own processes. - security.bsd.unprivileged_proc_debug=0 - security.bsd.unprivileged_read_msgbuf=0: The log is considered sensitive information. - security.bsd.hardlink_check_uid=1: Avoid hardlinks to old SUID binaries. - kern.log_console_output=0 - kern.coredump=0 - vm.overcommit=1: This avoids retarded Linux-like behaviour on OOM conditions. * Changed permissions on /root to 0700: root deserves privacy. * A boot script changes some permissions: - /var/log to 0750: the logs are considered sensitive information. - /var/run/dmesg.boot to 0640: this is also sensitive information. * Added a group sudoers and made sudo setuid only to users in sudoers: would have avoided trouble with recent sudo exploit if only trusted users have slaves. As for using sudo to grant privilege, for each master-slave relationship between users u and v, I have added a line like "u ALL = (v) NOPASSWD: ALL" to /etc/sudoers. Then the user u is supposed to become v by issuing "sudo -i -u v" and to execute a command as v by issuing "sudo -i -u v ...". It is worth noticing that sudo closes all file descriptors greater than or equal to 3. It is important not to let your pseudo-terminal leak through file descriptors 0, 1 and 2 if you have a shell connected to it. Also, the "-i" is mandatory because otherwise a file descriptor open at directory "." is leaked via the cwd file descriptor. I believe this is enough, but since this is not properly documented, I am not sure. As for resource limiting via rctl(8), for each user u root does not trust, I have added three rules: * user:u:vmemoryuse:deny= * user:u:maxproc:deny= * user:u:pseudoterminals:deny=0 Here and are limits on total virtual memory usage and total occupied entries in the process table for process u, respectively. Furthermore, I never give access to pseudo-terminals to untrusted users because all sessions are started from ssh or ptys of trusted users. Also, ptys must be available otherwise trusted users can not work on the machine. Finally, I have noticed "rctl -u user:u" reports a single pty open for user u no matter how many open ptys u has (except of course if u has no open pty, in which case 0 is reported). One naively would expect these restrictions to be enough to prevent abuse (trashing or DoS) as long as the sum of the MEM values (rounded up to page size) is less than or equal to the total physical memory plus swap space less the system (and trusted users') memory usage and the sum of the PROC values is less than the process table size minus the number of trusted processes. I sincerely do not know if this is the case. However, using vmemoryuse as a limit is overkill: it counts the total mapped pages, not the total anonymous pages, which are the ones that actually take resources. Of course, this assumes the memory management data structures (including the page table) are accounted as anonymous memory of the corresponding process, since it is easy (especially on amd64), to map pages sparsely to greatly increase the size of the page table. However, I do not know if this assumption holds on FreeBSD. What I would like here is a vmemoryuse-like switch that would count anonymous pages only. Programs such as mmap(2)ping torrent clients tend to have a virtual memory usage that far surpasses the anonymous memory usage. Having read getrlimit(2) and having set a rctl(8) rule of the form "user:u:swapuse:deny=" (with vm.overcommit=3) hoping it would have a similar effect to RLIMIT_SWAP, I got several kernel panics if was low enough (32M when it happened). Also, the reports from "rctl -u user:u" were inconsistent. I would like to discuss with anyone interested in this topic, especially about further precautions and the effectiveness of the above ones. FreeBSD, as I can see, is the best operating system out there in terms of security (and I have tried several), even compared to Linux and OpenBSD. However, it is really insecure out of the box like most others. To secure it, one must perform contrived configurations and tweaks, so I wonder why those are not default. P.S.: If you want to attain desktop security, matters get even more complicated. If anyone is interested, I can discuss what I did there (basically virtual X servers and building ports as regular users). Also, thanks for Capsicum, it sure is useful. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 04:18:47 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7F31065670 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:18:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt@gsicomp.on.ca) Received: from pierre.compar.com (pierre.compar.com [209.15.212.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA798FC12 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:18:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 14891 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2012 00:12:03 -0400 Received: from cpe002129cfd480-cm001ac3584898.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (HELO HEXEN) (99.236.131.100) by pierre.compar.com with SMTP; 31 Mar 2012 00:12:03 -0400 From: "Matt Emmerton" To: References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 00:12:07 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01cd0ef4$702cdd90$508698b0$@on.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac0OxQ6bWOF5CrsdSPqCsNkDrKsEbQALnEWg Content-Language: en-us Subject: RE: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:18:47 -0000 On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 > Mike Jeays wrote: > > > I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. > > The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the > > lack of colour, IMO. > > How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms of a few pages, > a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. Toner really doesn't go bad, and good laser printers are built to last. My first laser printer was an HP LaserJet 5P that my local bank branch was throwing away in 2003. It ran on its existing toner cartridge for 5 or 6 years under light use - maybe 500 pages per year. Matt From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 04:28:59 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E05F106566B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:28:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE2A8FC0C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:28:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26EBC3D2F0; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 06:28:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2V4Stlr004121; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 06:28:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 06:28:55 +0200 From: Polytropon To: "Matt Emmerton" Message-Id: <20120331062855.259ecfed.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <002b01cd0ef4$702cdd90$508698b0$@on.ca> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> <002b01cd0ef4$702cdd90$508698b0$@on.ca> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:28:59 -0000 On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 00:12:07 -0400, Matt Emmerton wrote: > Toner really doesn't go bad, and good laser printers are built to last. My > first laser printer was an HP LaserJet 5P that my local bank branch was > throwing away in 2003. It ran on its existing toner cartridge for 5 or 6 > years under light use - maybe 500 pages per year. Ha, that's nothing! I _still_ have a fully functional HP Laserjet 4. I got it in a heavily used state in 1996, and I've never treated it in a polite way: always quite heavy use. The printer is still working today, after more than 15 years. It has been "on pause" for some years, and right after plugging it in again, it produced regular quality results. Just try _that_ with typical home consumer inkpee stuff. :-) I can't tell you how many pages the printer has done in its life. The page counter must have encountered an overrun and now says some 4 digit number which doesn't increase anymore. So now I can sell it as "only few pages printed, like new"... :-) If durability is interesting, buying a laser printer will be the right choice. Today's inkpee printers seem to be the same price as a full ink cartridge refill (or even lower), creating cheaper devices on one hand (good), but creating more electronic waste at the other hand (bad). So if you want to reduce garbage, get a printer that will serve you for a long time. When I was at university, there was a student, a rich one as one could assume: When he had emptied a printer, he bought a new one, dropping the "old" one into the garbage can. He even bought a new printer when he failed to plug in the one he just bought, and he also bought a new one when he didn't get the drivers installed of another new printer. He threw away two (maybe more?) fully functional printers. You see, money can compensate stupidity. His educational result? He got a degree in computer science. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 04:47:22 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B79106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:47:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com) Received: from mail.r-bonomi.com (mx-out.r-bonomi.com [204.87.227.120]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A7E8FC08 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:47:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from bonomi@localhost) by mail.r-bonomi.com (8.14.4/rdb1) id q2V4jubs002469; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:45:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:45:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Bonomi Message-Id: <201203310445.q2V4jubs002469@mail.r-bonomi.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, rwmaillists@googlemail.com In-Reply-To: <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:47:23 -0000 RW wrote: > Mike Jeays wrote: > > > I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home > > use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily > > worth the lack of colour, IMO. > > How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in > terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the > consumables become perishables. Laser 'consumables' do _not_ suffer problems if the printer is only used occasionally. This is, in fact, one of the *BIG* advantaes of lasers over inkpee units. The 'cost per page' of output, at the rated pagecount is substantially lower for lasers, *AND* you will get the rated pagecount, even if it takes a decade, or longer. I've got a low-end laser I bought, *used*, over a decade ago. I have -yet- to replace the _used_ toner cartridge that came with the printer. Print quality is still as good as when I got it. My 'total cost of ownership' is, so far, around $3/year, and _declining_. Or, under two cents per page, _including_ the cost of the hardware. With inkpee printers you have to print a some pages every couple of weeks (preferably somewhat more often) or you run a _high_ probability of the cartridge having gotten 'gummed up', and rendered unusable, *despite* the amount of ink remaining in it. In 'lightly used' units, this can result in a _tripling_ (or more) of the (already high) 'true cost' per page of output. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 05:09:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BCE5106566B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:09:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.226.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA97A8FC12 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:09:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from amd620.ovitrap.com ([49.128.188.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q2V58vda003614; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:09:00 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Polytropon Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:08:57 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/8.3-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <002b01cd0ef4$702cdd90$508698b0$@on.ca> <20120331062855.259ecfed.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120331062855.259ecfed.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201203311208.57975.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:09:10 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 31 March 2012 11:28:55 Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 00:12:07 -0400, Matt Emmerton wrote: > > When I was at university, there was a student, a rich one > as one could assume: When he had emptied a printer, he > bought a new one, dropping the "old" one into the garbage > can. He even bought a new printer when he failed to plug > in the one he just bought, and he also bought a new one > when he didn't get the drivers installed of another new > printer. He threw away two (maybe more?) fully functional > printers. I know a person who did this too. But for the purpose of saving money. It was during a time when new printers with refill have been cheaper than the refill. This guy actually saved money and has had the latest model. I do not know if the pricing is still this strange. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 05:31:16 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0100C106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:31:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.226.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD3E8FC1A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:30:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from amd620.ovitrap.com ([49.128.188.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q2V53cun002514; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:03:41 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:03:38 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/8.3-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> <002b01cd0ef4$702cdd90$508698b0$@on.ca> In-Reply-To: <002b01cd0ef4$702cdd90$508698b0$@on.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201203311203.38836.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Cc: Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:31:16 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 31 March 2012 11:12:07 Matt Emmerton wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 > > Mike Jeays wrote: > > > > > I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home use. > > > The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily worth the > > > lack of colour, IMO. > > > > How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in terms > of a few pages, > > a few times a year, so presumably the consumables become perishables. > > Toner really doesn't go bad, and good laser printers are built to last. My > first laser printer was an HP LaserJet 5P that my local bank branch was > throwing away in 2003. It ran on its existing toner cartridge for 5 or 6 > years under light use - maybe 500 pages per year. yes, take a laser. Inkjets just dry out before the next use. You need then to take some time to fix it. I have had only one in my life. I thought it was a good buy until I realised this problem. My first laser printer was a IIP running for at least a decade until the electronics gave way. I just realised that I have had no laser printer failing mechanically. The problem might will be to find a cheap one which works with FreeBSD. Friends bought the cheapest Samsung AIO. It did not give them any problems running Linux. Erich > > Matt > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 06:02:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91676106566B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 06:02:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petri@helenius.fi) Received: from mail.secroom.net (r083.secroom.net [193.19.137.83]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45D878FC08 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 06:02:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.secroom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E191C5C96 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:57:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at example.com Received: from mail.secroom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.secroom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RpKwf-MNGkYF for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:57:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from d194.helenius.fi (d194.helenius.fi [83.150.107.194]) (Authenticated sender: pete) by mail.secroom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B0A505C3B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:57:21 +0000 (UTC) From: Petri Helenius Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:57:23 +0300 Message-Id: <1D66463D-A952-4988-8A8C-226C63E4F4D4@helenius.fi> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: atacontrol reinit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 06:02:52 -0000 Hi, How do I accomplish atacontrol reinit in 9.0 with ATA_CAM enabled? = Plugged drives don't show up without a reboot and camcontrol reset or = rescan does not help. Pete From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 07:47:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15110106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:47:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912478FC0A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:47:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBE230.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.226.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q2V7lKE0057777; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:47:21 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2V7l828030183; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:47:10 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2V7kuIk097937; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:47:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201203310747.q2V7kuIk097937@fire.js.berklix.net> To: schultz@ime.usp.br From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300." <20120330224416.13643xk4rsfd2i5s@webmail.ime.usp.br> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:46:56 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security in Multiuser Environments X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:47:25 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: schultz@ime.usp.br > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300 > Message-id: <20120330224416.13643xk4rsfd2i5s@webmail.ime.usp.br> schultz@ime.usp.br wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to raise a discussion about the security features > of FreeBSD as a whole and how they might be employed to actually > derive some meaningful guarantees. We have a list specialy for freebsd-security@. Please use it. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 10:32:12 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CCA106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:32:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rocky@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E85AE8FC08 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:32:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 036585C22 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:45:39 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:32:04 +1000 From: R Skinner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ps, clang and make variables X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:32:12 -0000 Stupid question, but I need to clarify and make sure I'm right here: what should I see as the running process if clang is compiling? ATM I see cc1plus. I'm trying to set CC and friends make variables to clang for a build, but it doesn't appear to be 'sticking'. It seems to change the shell env to bash, but that shouldn't be the problem. So I'm trying to work out whats up. FWIW I'm trying to build libreoffice with clang as it doesn't build, or more accurately doesn't build and test correctly. It doesn't appear to honor the CC variables (CC, CXX, CPP, etc). Worth a shot anyway :) Cheers From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 11:05:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915E5106566B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:05:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A6C8FC08 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:05:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BBAD05C22 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:19:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F76E4F7.9000204@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:05:27 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:05:29 -0000 On 03/31/12 05:17, Warren Block wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012, Karel Miklav wrote: > >> Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with >> FreeBSD? >> >> HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd >> like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser >> 6500 looks nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is >> there a cheaper alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that >> good idea anyway, heh? > > The Phaser 6500 has some good specifications. Genuine Adobe > PostScript 3, gigabit Ethernet, 24 PPM. The duty cycle is 4,000 pages > per month, which is very low. Toner is expensive. Reviews are > somewhat mixed. > > It should work with FreeBSD, certainly for text. For graphics output, > Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the 6500, but one > of the similar printers probably will work. Don't expect photo > quality, color lasers have to do halftones. Depending. Xerox C410 used a Fiery engine onboard which produced dramatic results- awesome photo quality I have yet to see even in an inkjet. Not sure what the Phasers are like though; they're not actually Xerox designed per se, but use the Xerox processes so hence the brand. Anyway, I digress. The critical point is the print engine- if it says Fiery grab it don't let go! :) Results may vary a little between brands, but anything with Fiery in it is better than without. And you don't need Gutenprint because thats what Gutenprint is attempting to emulate. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 11:14:28 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5DE81065672 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:14:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D998FC14 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:14:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A1F75C22 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:28:02 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F76E712.6040703@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:14:26 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330232307.41e420b1.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120330232307.41e420b1.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:14:28 -0000 On 03/31/12 07:23, Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200, Karel Miklav wrote: >> Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with FreeBSD? >> >> HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like >> to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks >> nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper >> alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? > Allow me to mention some things that are worth investing in. > > 1. Network connection. > Don't bother with USB stuff. Buy a printer that offers Ethernet > and maybe also WLAN, this will save you many trouble, and you > are free to put the printer wherever you want. > > 2. Standard language. > Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least > one of them. PCL is very common among HP printers. Regarding > drivers - you don't need them. PS is the default output format > for printing from every application. Printer filter collections > such as apsfilter or CUPS tend to support non-PS printers very > well, and it's quite easy to write your own printer filter (may > even be a one-liner) using ghostscript. There's nothing wrong > with PS because (as I said) you don't need any drivers, but the > data transfer may need some time, and the processing speed > depends on how fast and how good (!) the PS interpreter in the > printer is. In my experience (with the printers I'm going to > mention at the end of this message) PCL is faster. +1. +1 +1 +1.... ;) A definite must! Cannot be emphasised enough; the others are manufacturer errors! > > 3. Laser printer. > Don't believe that inkpee printers are genereally cheaper. They > are not. The only excuse for using them is that you need photo > quality color prints (requiring the proper paper, too). Usually by the time you need to replace a cartridge you may want to buy another printer- it will take you that long to go through the cartridge (4000 prints as opposed to the 40 in an inkjet that you _may_ get out of it). Remember you have to pay nearly the same amount _somewhere_; either through ink/toner or initial cost (or pain :) ). > > 4. Additional functionalities. > Before buying something, ask yourself what you need. Does it > need to have a scanner? Does the scanner part support FreeBSD? > Is there a way to "scan to local storage" (e. g. USB stick) > in the printer? Does it need a sheet feeder for scan input? > Does it need to scan photo positive/negative films? Does it > need to fax? > > I have had good luck with my army of laser printers here. > HP Laserjet II, 4, 4000 duplex, as well as a Samsung color > laserprinter CLX-2160. All this stuff works out of the box. > I don't have any need for inkpee. Photos can be printed at > much better quality at my local drugstore, if I need that. > The printer filters are gs one-liners I wrote myself, because > I speak PCL to the laser printer, and some splix gibberish > using foo2qpdl to the (sadly USB connected) color printer. > > > > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 11:17:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5E35106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:17:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985718FC08 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:17:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1EC145C22 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:31:29 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F76E7E0.6080800@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:17:52 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:17:55 -0000 On 03/31/12 08:32, RW wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:14:20 -0400 > Mike Jeays wrote: > >> I strongly recommend a laser printer over an inkjet even for home >> use. The reduced running costs and better reliability are easily >> worth the lack of colour, IMO. > How do they compare for light and occasional use? I'm thinking in > terms of a few pages, a few times a year, so presumably the > consumables become perishables. Quite well. Toner doesn't dry up :) Watch the older type fusers though- they can develop 'flat spots' on the rollers. The newer printers use a ceramic type fuser which has fast warm-up and no flat spot troubles. Also keep the dust low on _any_ printer and it will last longer and perform better. Dusty paper can cause major issues (both printing and mechanical) as well. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 11:25:39 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6C3106566C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:25:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E2A8FC21 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B2EB5C22 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:39:13 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F76E9B1.5040008@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:25:37 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <201203310747.q2V7kuIk097937@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201203310747.q2V7kuIk097937@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security in Multiuser Environments X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:25:40 -0000 On 03/31/12 17:46, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, > Reference: >> From: schultz@ime.usp.br >> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300 >> Message-id: <20120330224416.13643xk4rsfd2i5s@webmail.ime.usp.br> > schultz@ime.usp.br wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I would like to raise a discussion about the security features >> of FreeBSD as a whole and how they might be employed to actually >> derive some meaningful guarantees. > We have a list specialy for freebsd-security@. Please use it. Hang on, hold the phone: The security list (specifically) is for security announcements. At least that what it said when I subscribed to it... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 11:33:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFC8106567C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:33:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx01.qsc.de (mx01.qsc.de [213.148.129.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FF68FC1A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:33:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-185-71.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.185.71]) by mx01.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55473CC52; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:32:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id q2VBWxVP006381; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:32:59 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:32:59 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Da Rock Message-Id: <20120331133259.35ee7247.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <4F76E7E0.6080800@herveybayaustralia.com.au> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> <4F76E7E0.6080800@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:33:07 -0000 On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:17:52 +1000, Da Rock wrote: > Watch the older type fusers though- they can develop 'flat spots' on the > rollers. The newer printers use a ceramic type fuser which has fast > warm-up and no flat spot troubles. But it's still possible to get replacement parts for older office printers. I said _office_ printers, even used ones that you can pick up for few dollars or a bottle of beer. Spare parts aren't expensive, and in many cases, you can install them yourself. The "funny" thing: Even for 10 years old printers (and even older ones), they are available. Try _that_ with a home consumer inkpee printer! :-) > Also keep the dust low on _any_ printer and it will last longer and > perform better. Dusty paper can cause major issues (both printing and > mechanical) as well. Sometimes rubber parts tend to "harden". There are a few "tricks" to make them soft again, but the typical solution is to replace them for few dollars. Note that this isn't something you'll notice in 2 - 5 years of use. You often need 10 or more years to find fail and trouble in a good printer. Good printer == office printer, as I said befire. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 11:36:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF541065674 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-gy0-f182.google.com (mail-gy0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016CC8FC0C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:36:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghrr20 with SMTP id r20so886164ghr.13 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=bkv3nAHA5x/rENEGe3tzRae24wUjwppnSIPKuB7+M6A=; b=Uy0KaOt2By7MvmRs4izyHTbu+icDN6jTxW55tKjvlV7R9mHVNI/dgPK9i5GdzuBfob fQogHODzslWBAwpdQRJN5M/smm4wpkrhn7+MMI5H74PWzKI9dg2z+qCNIPq/vPLy5sQz m/m2yu+RPSc9X85m9IXyn5lQ1riQN2QBCTSImZD2flAVly4oFryldkWpp6ItZIoKClys 3aeRMC4DoKfceVTBakKFuhFMV6YG+8x/sg2MLMV+lcqY/vpK0SsMG1KWH9IsGpJ5Ra0x 2TDBXZA5XOR9IlUnAnPCfWHc4yQASwcDhldIkN0bbimUpLdwd8K7t2PpHbanDIgDaPZ6 Pucg== Received: by 10.236.72.133 with SMTP id t5mr1369311yhd.94.1333193784885; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4sm23412205yhm.18.2012.03.31.04.36.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 31 Mar 2012 04:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@scorpio.seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3VKd1y2NNxz2CG5d for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:36:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:36:21 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Message-ID: <20120331073621.3e4db356@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <201203311208.57975.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <002b01cd0ef4$702cdd90$508698b0$@on.ca> <20120331062855.259ecfed.freebsd@edvax.de> <201203311208.57975.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.2) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnvyKkN3erFxvRbIaM1m+aDwbUNqEWC9vXeKgxuYN4AALvBTsxBB/AmzMXH0c4t3JuCzUMt Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:36:26 -0000 On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:08:57 +0700 Erich Dollansky articulated: > I know a person who did this too. But for the purpose of saving > money. It was during a time when new printers with refill have been > cheaper than the refill. This guy actually saved money and has had > the latest model. Kodak made a major change in their price structure to actually front load the cost of the printer while most other manufacturers still basically give away the printer with the expectations of making profit on the selling of the ink. Hence, many individuals, especially college students purchase cheap ink-jet printers that can actually rival the output of many high priced color laser units and simply discard them in six months when the ink runs dry. Plus, they have the functionality of being able to plug those ink-jets into virtually any Microsoft product, sans driver and still have a fully functional device. By the way, PS is going the way of the dodo bird. PDF is quickly becoming the printing norm. If you are going to spend a significant amount of money on a printing device, make sure it supports native PDF. -- Jerry â™” Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 11:55:23 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A702106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:55:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFFC8FC12 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:55:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 91D965C22 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:08:56 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F76F0A8.4010801@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:55:20 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330161420.017f32f7@europa> <20120330233241.6f89eb89@gumby.homeunix.com> <4F76E7E0.6080800@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120331133259.35ee7247.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120331133259.35ee7247.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:55:23 -0000 On 03/31/12 21:32, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:17:52 +1000, Da Rock wrote: >> Watch the older type fusers though- they can develop 'flat spots' on the >> rollers. The newer printers use a ceramic type fuser which has fast >> warm-up and no flat spot troubles. > But it's still possible to get replacement parts for older > office printers. I said _office_ printers, even used ones > that you can pick up for few dollars or a bottle of beer. > Spare parts aren't expensive, and in many cases, you can > install them yourself. The "funny" thing: Even for 10 years > old printers (and even older ones), they are available. > > Try _that_ with a home consumer inkpee printer! :-) > > > >> Also keep the dust low on _any_ printer and it will last longer and >> perform better. Dusty paper can cause major issues (both printing and >> mechanical) as well. > Sometimes rubber parts tend to "harden". There are a few > "tricks" to make them soft again, but the typical solution > is to replace them for few dollars. Note that this isn't > something you'll notice in 2 - 5 years of use. You often > need 10 or more years to find fail and trouble in a good > printer. Good printer == office printer, as I said befire. :-) > All absolutely true. My point was the few 'gotchas' for printers and what to watch for. Also the better features for new printers. I seem to remember using eucalyptus oil to revive cracked rubber - not that it happened much with the latest rubbers (2k+). A little alcohol cleaner will clean them up usually to get them going again for another 100 or so pages- usually a lot more :) You can also use a little mag polish on the exterior panels of the older ones to remove stubborn marks and make them look new again (unless they've gone mediteranean and been a bit sunburnt). Parts (for the old and new - trick is to find a supplier, a quick google will do) are a dime a dozen almost - can be touchier on the colour printers though, not that the parts on those wear out too quickly: you can usually expect 30k out of those parts anyway- a lifetime for those printers. Try and get a printer _designed_ to run 100k before servicing (like Kyocera), and you'll buy a new printer before buying a new cartridge (possibly). A 1010/1020 did that, I'm not sure what the (descendant) newer models are. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 12:59:10 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B066106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:59:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from d.toschlaeger@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com (mail-bk0-f54.google.com [209.85.214.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D34948FC0A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:59:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bkcjc3 with SMTP id jc3so1560691bkc.13 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:59:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Snmxy1jjJ11ocF9xS5tBqJSQlBSs1izw6R5HcSB6Nuo=; b=e+B4Xhv6I1Q3LLfpaaaXY3OzR0UJNshDrR2QUX8pr6dW6P3pZ+YuEn4o3tFInephnW xEwSE7i3/a+bkYmykSLEhuGZs+XHaIMjFn54VXhUiUQw3ds1+ArvvJf2qvFUJop6YtNZ FkHoVj/1R+MGx4MBrAFGP1Cq0XoNcy/c9LJbri6zYWWLJnVXVPG6BF2cNzO4gXxiEpPB ay5koRHdeunduxnuk5CkiGEGElN27nx7npfrDwCXgAW6Rkgi1IjCYz7y1vHzfJ/Y715c rse7urphmk8QTFig7NyXic2F+l0/mRHjkV6bzLTxyu7DFsNxQ5h5QcSzaYnAkNjgBD5Y H+0g== Received: by 10.204.156.139 with SMTP id x11mr842292bkw.59.1333198748494; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.69] (pD9EC1034.dip.t-dialin.net. [217.236.16.52]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id t17sm26455529bke.6.2012.03.31.05.59.00 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 31 Mar 2012 05:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F76FF93.50400@googlemail.com> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:58:59 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?B?RGFuaWVsIFRvc2NobMOkZ2Vy?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karel Miklav References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> In-Reply-To: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:59:10 -0000 Hello I use a HP LaserJet 1320n from a handicap workshop for some Euros. it works great. It is connected via internal LAN with a lot of features. I put it into the WLAN via an access point and a switch. No problems so far. Can also get connected via USB. ps works just fine. best regards Daniel Am 30.03.2012 17:38, schrieb Karel Miklav: > Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely with > FreeBSD? > > HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but I'd like > to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox Phaser 6500 looks > nice, but I can not economically justify my appetite. Is there a cheaper > alternative or maybe PostScript printers aren't that good idea anyway, heh? > > -- > > Thanks, > Karel > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 13:26:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1D73106566C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:26:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from tower.berklix.org (tower.berklix.org [83.236.223.114]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F648FC15 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:26:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5DCBE230.dip.t-dialin.net [93.203.226.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by tower.berklix.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id q2VDQaPY059652; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:26:37 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2VDQQ3n031512; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:26:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2VDQEDH034568; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:26:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@fire.js.berklix.net) Message-Id: <201203311326.q2VDQEDH034568@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Da Rock From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultancy, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:25:37 +1000." <4F76E9B1.5040008@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:26:14 +0200 Sender: jhs@berklix.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security in Multiuser Environments X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:26:46 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: Da Rock > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:25:37 +1000 > Message-id: <4F76E9B1.5040008@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Da Rock wrote: > On 03/31/12 17:46, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > Hi, > > Reference: > >> From: schultz@ime.usp.br > >> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300 > >> Message-id: <20120330224416.13643xk4rsfd2i5s@webmail.ime.usp.br> > > schultz@ime.usp.br wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> I would like to raise a discussion about the security features > >> of FreeBSD as a whole and how they might be employed to actually > >> derive some meaningful guarantees. > > We have a list specialy for freebsd-security@. Please use it. > Hang on, hold the phone: The security list (specifically) is for > security announcements. At least that what it said when I subscribed to > it... Wrong. For list of mail lists see: http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo Specifically: freebsd-security@freebsd.org http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security freebsd-security-notifications@freebsd.org http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security-notifications Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, & indent with "> ". Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 13:50:04 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE9F106566C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:50:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@m.gmane.org) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E65C8FC12 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:50:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SDygs-0002qV-2H for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:50:02 +0200 Received: from pool-173-79-99-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.79.99.96]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:50:02 +0200 Received: from nightrecon by pool-173-79-99-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:50:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Michael Powell Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:49:50 -0400 Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-79-99-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net Subject: Re: ps, clang and make variables X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: nightrecon@hotmail.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:50:04 -0000 R Skinner wrote: > Stupid question, but I need to clarify and make sure I'm right here: > what should I see as the running process if clang is compiling? ATM I > see cc1plus. > > I'm trying to set CC and friends make variables to clang for a build, > but it doesn't appear to be 'sticking'. It seems to change the shell env > to bash, but that shouldn't be the problem. So I'm trying to work out > whats up. > > FWIW I'm trying to build libreoffice with clang as it doesn't build, or > more accurately doesn't build and test correctly. It doesn't appear to > honor the CC variables (CC, CXX, CPP, etc). Worth a shot anyway :) I have done the buildworld/buildkernel dance with the following in /etc/make.conf a few weeks back. Haven't played with it recently though. .if !defined(CC) || ${CC} == "cc" CC=clang .endif .if !defined(CXX) || ${CXX} == "c++" CXX=clang++ .endif .if !defined(CPP) || ${CPP} == "cpp" CPP=clang-cpp .endif # Don't die on warnings NO_WERROR= WERROR= # Don't forget this when using Jails! NO_FSCHG= I got this from: http://wiki.freebsd.org/BuildingFreeBSDWithClang Good Luck! -Mike From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 13:56:29 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB1F1065672 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:56:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: from outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au (outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.148]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6E18FC14 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:56:28 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EABsMd098lKjS/2dsb2JhbABFuH6BB4IJAQEEATo/BQsLDTkUGDETiAQEDLoCkDljBJVggRKETDWKHYJ7 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,348,1330876800"; d="scan'208";a="771652881" Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.phoenix) ([124.148.168.210]) by outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2012 21:56:25 +0800 Received: by smtp.phoenix (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0EDC9443D; Sun, 1 Apr 2012 00:56:25 +1100 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 00:56:24 +1100 From: andrew clarke To: R Skinner Message-ID: <20120331135624.GA46283@ozzmosis.com> References: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: ps, clang and make variables X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:56:29 -0000 On Sat 2012-03-31 20:32:04 UTC+1000, R Skinner (rocky@herveybayaustralia.com.au) wrote: > Stupid question, but I need to clarify and make sure I'm right here: > what should I see as the running process if clang is compiling? ATM I > see cc1plus. clang for C, clang++ for C++ > I'm trying to set CC and friends make variables to clang for a build, > but it doesn't appear to be 'sticking'. It seems to change the shell env > to bash, but that shouldn't be the problem. So I'm trying to work out > whats up. I have this in /etc/make.conf: .include "/etc/make.clang.conf" and /etc/make.clang.conf itself: .if !defined(CC) || ${CC} == "cc" CC=clang .endif .if !defined(CXX) || ${CXX} == "c++" CXX=clang++ .endif .if !defined(CPP) || ${CPP} == "cpp" CPP=clang -E .endif # Don't die on warnings NO_WERROR= WERROR= # Don't forget this when using Jails! NO_FSCHG= This is from http://wiki.freebsd.org/BuildingFreeBSDWithClang which talks about building the FreeBSD kernel & base, but it's also used by the Ports system. Another option is to set CC & CXX explicitly: cd /usr/ports/*/foobar make CC=clang CXX=clang++ > FWIW I'm trying to build libreoffice with clang as it doesn't build, or > more accurately doesn't build and test correctly. It doesn't appear to > honor the CC variables (CC, CXX, CPP, etc). Worth a shot anyway :) I've never tried building LibreOffice at all, let alone with Clang, but apparently it can be done: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-clang-success-td3788899.html Regards Andrew From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 14:05:42 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3421065672 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:05:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com) Received: from alogreentechnologies.com (alogreentechnologies.com [67.212.226.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904FA8FC19 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:05:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from amd620.ovitrap.com ([49.128.188.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by alogreentechnologies.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q2VE5Trg016264; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:05:32 -0600 From: Erich Dollansky To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:05:00 +0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.7 (FreeBSD/8.3-PRERELEASE; KDE/4.7.4; amd64; ; ) References: <201203311326.q2VDQEDH034568@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201203311326.q2VDQEDH034568@fire.js.berklix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201203312105.00265.erichfreebsdlist@ovitrap.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , Da Rock Subject: Re: FreeBSD Security in Multiuser Environments X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:05:42 -0000 Hi, On Saturday 31 March 2012 20:26:14 Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, > Reference: > > From: Da Rock > > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:25:37 +1000 > > Message-id: <4F76E9B1.5040008@herveybayaustralia.com.au> > > Da Rock wrote: > > On 03/31/12 17:46, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > Hi, > > > Reference: > > >> From: schultz@ime.usp.br > > >> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:44:16 -0300 > > >> Message-id: <20120330224416.13643xk4rsfd2i5s@webmail.ime.usp.br> > > > schultz@ime.usp.br wrote: > > >> Hello, > > >> > > >> I would like to raise a discussion about the security features > > >> of FreeBSD as a whole and how they might be employed to actually > > >> derive some meaningful guarantees. > > > We have a list specialy for freebsd-security@. Please use it. > > Hang on, hold the phone: The security list (specifically) is for > > security announcements. At least that what it said when I subscribed to > > it... > > Wrong. > > For list of mail lists see: > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo > > Specifically: > freebsd-security@freebsd.org > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security > > freebsd-security-notifications@freebsd.org > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security-notifications > this sounds very confusing for people who have simple question: 'General system administrator questions of an FAQ nature are off-topic for this list, but the creation and maintenance of a FAQ is on-topic. Thus, the submission of questions (with answers) for inclusion into the FAQ is welcome. Such question/answer sets should be clearly marked as (at least "FAQ submission") such in the subject. ' This sounds that 'schultz' would be wrong there. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 14:13:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E201E106566C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:13:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (unknown [IPv6:2607:f678:1010::34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28EC8FC17 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:13:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from agora.rdrop.com (66@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id q2VEDmpd001279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by agora.rdrop.com (8.13.1/8.14.2/Submit) with UUCP id q2VEDmC9001278; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from perryh@pluto.rain.com) Received: from fbsd81 ([192.168.200.81]) by pluto.rain.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-pluto-M2060407) id AA08470; Sat, 31 Mar 12 06:02:34 PST Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:01:43 -0700 From: perryh@pluto.rain.com To: karel@lovetemple.net, freebsd@edvax.de Message-Id: <4f7770b7.BkVKquuSmumStBb/%perryh@pluto.rain.com> References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <20120330232307.41e420b1.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20120330232307.41e420b1.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: nail 11.25 7/29/05 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:13:53 -0000 Polytropon wrote: > On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:38:36 +0200, Karel Miklav wrote: > > Could you please recommend me a home printer that works nicely > > with FreeBSD? > > > > HP inkjets aren't that bad, FreeBSD drivers are allright, but > > I'd like to shift towards some kind of PostScript laser. Xerox > > Phaser 6500 looks nice ... > > Allow me to mention some things that are worth investing in. > > 1. Network connection. > Don't bother with USB stuff. Buy a printer that offers Ethernet +1 > and maybe also WLAN, I personally don't trust wireless, because it's well nigh impossible to truly secure it. > 2. Standard language. > Postscript and PCL. Make sure the printer understands at least > one of them. or, alternatively, PDF (which some of the newer printers are reputed to take directly, rather than requiring the host to convert it to PS or PCL). > 3. Laser printer. > Don't believe that inkpee printers are genereally cheaper. They > are not. +1, especially if used only occasionally. If I needed a monochrome printer this weekend, I'd head for the local Fry's where they're advertising the (network & duplex capable) Samsung ML-2955ND for $80. I haven't used that model, but it looks very similar to the (network-capable, but no duplex) ML-2571N that's been working just fine since I got it a few years ago. > The only excuse for using them is that you need photo > quality color prints (requiring the proper paper, too). I've gotten quite adequate printing of digital-camera photos from a Xerox Phaser 6130 (about $400 a few years ago IIRC). From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 14:32:03 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B53106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:32:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F198FC1B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:32:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2E6DD5C22 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2012 00:45:37 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F771561.1010103@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 00:32:01 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120331135624.GA46283@ozzmosis.com> In-Reply-To: <20120331135624.GA46283@ozzmosis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: ps, clang and make variables X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:32:03 -0000 On 03/31/12 23:56, andrew clarke wrote: > On Sat 2012-03-31 20:32:04 UTC+1000, R Skinner (rocky@herveybayaustralia.com.au) wrote: > >> Stupid question, but I need to clarify and make sure I'm right here: >> what should I see as the running process if clang is compiling? ATM I >> see cc1plus. > clang for C, clang++ for C++ Figures... not working then. > >> I'm trying to set CC and friends make variables to clang for a build, >> but it doesn't appear to be 'sticking'. It seems to change the shell env >> to bash, but that shouldn't be the problem. So I'm trying to work out >> whats up. > I have this in /etc/make.conf: > > .include "/etc/make.clang.conf" > > and /etc/make.clang.conf itself: > > .if !defined(CC) || ${CC} == "cc" > CC=clang > .endif > .if !defined(CXX) || ${CXX} == "c++" > CXX=clang++ > .endif > .if !defined(CPP) || ${CPP} == "cpp" > CPP=clang -E > .endif > # Don't die on warnings > NO_WERROR= > WERROR= > # Don't forget this when using Jails! > NO_FSCHG= > > This is from http://wiki.freebsd.org/BuildingFreeBSDWithClang which > talks about building the FreeBSD kernel& base, but it's also used by > the Ports system. > > Another option is to set CC& CXX explicitly: > > cd /usr/ports/*/foobar > make CC=clang CXX=clang++ And thats whats not working here. > >> FWIW I'm trying to build libreoffice with clang as it doesn't build, or >> more accurately doesn't build and test correctly. It doesn't appear to >> honor the CC variables (CC, CXX, CPP, etc). Worth a shot anyway :) > I've never tried building LibreOffice at all, let alone with Clang, > but apparently it can be done: > > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-clang-success-td3788899.html Apparently. And given the errors I've been having I'm trying to give it a go. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 15:11:27 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39DC106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:11:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3FC8FC1B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:11:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.157.36]) by smtp02.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2012 11:11:26 -0400 Received: from smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net (smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net [207.172.157.104]) by mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net (MOS 4.3.4-GA) with ESMTP id BRF42772; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:11:26 -0400 Received: from 209-6-86-84.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com (HELO jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) ([209.6.86.84]) by smtp04.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 31 Mar 2012 11:11:26 -0400 From: Robert Huff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <20343.7837.796535.407848@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:11:25 -0400 To: FreeBSD Questions In-Reply-To: <20120331135624.GA46283@ozzmosis.com> References: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120331135624.GA46283@ozzmosis.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" XEmacs Lucid X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mr16.lnh.mail.rcn.net) Subject: using clang (was: Re: ps, clang and make variables) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:11:27 -0000 As long as we're talking about clang, I have two questions. 1) Is there any generic reason why a port compiled with clang won't work on a world compiled with gcc? 2) If not, how do I set that up? Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 15:38:25 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62FDF106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:38:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from schweikh@schweikhardt.net) Received: from rs2.shuttle.de (rs2.shuttle.de [IPv6:2001:638:206:3::8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7598FC18 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:38:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by rs2.shuttle.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 6688858D03; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:38:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hal9000.schweikhardt.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hal9000.schweikhardt.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2VFcBF6094669 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:38:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from schweikh@hal9000.schweikhardt.net) Received: (from schweikh@localhost) by hal9000.schweikhardt.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id q2VFcBjX094668 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:38:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from schweikh) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:38:11 +0200 From: Jens Schweikhardt To: FreeBSD questions Message-ID: <20120331153811.GA82076@schweikhardt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: shutdown -p doesn't power-off USB X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:38:25 -0000 hello world\n I'm running 9-STABLE/amd64 and for a few months now, whenever I shut down with "shutdown -p now", the USB devices still have power. This is most visible on the USB keyboard, where *all* LEDs are turned on and stay on. The MB is an ASUS P5Q3 Deluxe. The USB related sysctls are: # sysctl -aw|grep -i usb USB1008A Flash Disk device usb hw.pci.usb_early_takeover: 1 hw.usb.no_shutdown_wait: 0 hw.usb.no_boot_wait: 0 hw.usb.debug: 0 hw.usb.usb_lang_mask: 255 hw.usb.usb_lang_id: 9 hw.usb.template: 0 hw.usb.power_timeout: 30 hw.usb.no_pf: 0 hw.usb.no_cs_fail: 0 dev.uhci.0.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-D dev.uhci.0.%location: slot=26 function=0 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB4 dev.uhci.1.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-E dev.uhci.1.%location: slot=26 function=1 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB5 dev.uhci.2.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-F dev.uhci.2.%location: slot=26 function=2 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB6 dev.uhci.3.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-A dev.uhci.3.%location: slot=29 function=0 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB0 dev.uhci.4.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-B dev.uhci.4.%location: slot=29 function=1 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB1 dev.uhci.5.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-C dev.uhci.5.%location: slot=29 function=2 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB2 dev.usbus.0.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-D dev.usbus.0.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.0.%parent: uhci0 dev.usbus.1.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-E dev.usbus.1.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.1.%parent: uhci1 dev.usbus.2.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-F dev.usbus.2.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.2.%parent: uhci2 dev.usbus.3.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-B dev.usbus.3.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.3.%parent: ehci0 dev.usbus.4.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.4.%parent: xhci0 dev.usbus.5.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-A dev.usbus.5.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.5.%parent: uhci3 dev.usbus.6.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-B dev.usbus.6.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.6.%parent: uhci4 dev.usbus.7.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-C dev.usbus.7.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.7.%parent: uhci5 dev.usbus.8.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-A dev.usbus.8.%driver: usbus dev.usbus.8.%parent: ehci1 dev.ehci.0.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-B dev.ehci.0.%location: slot=26 function=7 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USBE dev.ehci.1.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-A dev.ehci.1.%location: slot=29 function=7 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.EUSB dev.xhci.0.%desc: XHCI (generic) USB 3.0 controller dev.uhub.0.%parent: usbus0 dev.uhub.1.%parent: usbus1 dev.uhub.2.%parent: usbus2 dev.uhub.3.%parent: usbus3 dev.uhub.4.%parent: usbus4 dev.uhub.5.%parent: usbus5 dev.uhub.6.%parent: usbus6 dev.uhub.7.%parent: usbus7 dev.uhub.8.%parent: usbus8 dev.ums.0.%desc: Logitech USB Receiver, class 0/0, rev 2.00/22.00, addr 2 dev.uhid.0.%desc: Logitech USB Receiver, class 0/0, rev 2.00/22.00, addr 2 Any help appreciated in telling me how to turn off USB power with shutdown. Regards, Jens -- Jens Schweikhardt http://www.schweikhardt.net/ SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 15:39:46 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAAC0106566B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:39:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-yw0-f54.google.com (mail-yw0-f54.google.com [209.85.213.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7B28FC0C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:39:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by yhgm50 with SMTP id m50so925013yhg.13 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:39:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=SbRmc0jiSqpGJ5Bo769p+EmWevn73TaVgpyW+uz0gSo=; b=kmyAOMItsnW9vtRltraEg8ODf3+TdlVHMNkFQxLf61eH627B/0aM8jW1B6vMrtZPGU z5nIoha2d6Jt/pajILEaf3zV8VK7i3OCtTYrv31rfGhhjlOErJFi94tGpJe8AH5IUNrO yvr3ZXw/Cj+B54j0gryDDUp78KPmPoalEwJAMGAfydLcoTaRLyFEJwgsUn75ArRXDiiX 4RMr209p9xR8raN1QqQWHOXMhIOe3FJLqCHnF1svqVjvdjzv/laR9qtseaH/loJAoKmY JTQgsq3sS9Ju93W1fYWlp8g61UeI3Z5iem8Qi0Eo7jBwiyXBhJU2CR6uv6cAWW/K/iWI NOcQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.170.198 with SMTP id p46mr1968700yhl.63.1333208385456; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.236.170.65 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:39:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120331153811.GA82076@schweikhardt.net> References: <20120331153811.GA82076@schweikhardt.net> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 08:39:45 -0700 Message-ID: From: Michael Sierchio To: Jens Schweikhardt X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlGGgd2nLVbfiQrITC0Bp/IYdQrpL/Dr51j8lC8IlXUMyFp7WAxgMhVknhFKJofv9JEHJ9k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD questions Subject: Re: shutdown -p doesn't power-off USB X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:39:46 -0000 That would be something in the BIOS settings, probably... On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Jens Schweikhardt < schweikh@schweikhardt.net> wrote: > hello world\n > > I'm running 9-STABLE/amd64 and for a few months now, whenever I shut > down with "shutdown -p now", the USB devices still have power. This is > most visible on the USB keyboard, where *all* LEDs are turned on and > stay on. > > The MB is an ASUS P5Q3 Deluxe. > > The USB related sysctls are: > # sysctl -aw|grep -i usb > USB1008A Flash Disk > device usb > hw.pci.usb_early_takeover: 1 > hw.usb.no_shutdown_wait: 0 > hw.usb.no_boot_wait: 0 > hw.usb.debug: 0 > hw.usb.usb_lang_mask: 255 > hw.usb.usb_lang_id: 9 > hw.usb.template: 0 > hw.usb.power_timeout: 30 > hw.usb.no_pf: 0 > hw.usb.no_cs_fail: 0 > dev.uhci.0.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-D > dev.uhci.0.%location: slot=26 function=0 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB4 > dev.uhci.1.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-E > dev.uhci.1.%location: slot=26 function=1 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB5 > dev.uhci.2.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-F > dev.uhci.2.%location: slot=26 function=2 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB6 > dev.uhci.3.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-A > dev.uhci.3.%location: slot=29 function=0 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB0 > dev.uhci.4.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-B > dev.uhci.4.%location: slot=29 function=1 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB1 > dev.uhci.5.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-C > dev.uhci.5.%location: slot=29 function=2 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USB2 > dev.usbus.0.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-D > dev.usbus.0.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.0.%parent: uhci0 > dev.usbus.1.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-E > dev.usbus.1.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.1.%parent: uhci1 > dev.usbus.2.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-F > dev.usbus.2.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.2.%parent: uhci2 > dev.usbus.3.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-B > dev.usbus.3.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.3.%parent: ehci0 > dev.usbus.4.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.4.%parent: xhci0 > dev.usbus.5.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-A > dev.usbus.5.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.5.%parent: uhci3 > dev.usbus.6.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-B > dev.usbus.6.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.6.%parent: uhci4 > dev.usbus.7.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB controller USB-C > dev.usbus.7.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.7.%parent: uhci5 > dev.usbus.8.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-A > dev.usbus.8.%driver: usbus > dev.usbus.8.%parent: ehci1 > dev.ehci.0.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-B > dev.ehci.0.%location: slot=26 function=7 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.USBE > dev.ehci.1.%desc: Intel 82801JI (ICH10) USB 2.0 controller USB-A > dev.ehci.1.%location: slot=29 function=7 handle=\_SB_.PCI0.EUSB > dev.xhci.0.%desc: XHCI (generic) USB 3.0 controller > dev.uhub.0.%parent: usbus0 > dev.uhub.1.%parent: usbus1 > dev.uhub.2.%parent: usbus2 > dev.uhub.3.%parent: usbus3 > dev.uhub.4.%parent: usbus4 > dev.uhub.5.%parent: usbus5 > dev.uhub.6.%parent: usbus6 > dev.uhub.7.%parent: usbus7 > dev.uhub.8.%parent: usbus8 > dev.ums.0.%desc: Logitech USB Receiver, class 0/0, rev 2.00/22.00, addr 2 > dev.uhid.0.%desc: Logitech USB Receiver, class 0/0, rev 2.00/22.00, addr 2 > > Any help appreciated in telling me how to turn off USB power with shutdown. > > Regards, > > Jens > -- > Jens Schweikhardt http://www.schweikhardt.net/ > SIGSIG -- signature too long (core dumped) > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 17:08:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D021065670 for ; 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Vou= s d=C3=A9sinscrire : http://news.skoopon.fr/public/unsubscribe.jsp?gid=3D15= 00000377&uid=3D15027764244&mid=3D1500001435&sig=3DFEHAIMBILLHHBGJM Le site skoopon.fr est une propri=C3=A9t=C3=A9 de la soci=C3=A9t=C3=A9 WIZZ= DEALS. La soci=C3=A9t=C3=A9 WIZZDEALS est une soci=C3=A9t=C3=A9 par actions simpli= fi=C3=A9e dont le si=C3=A8ge social est situ=C3=A9, 6 rue Troyon - 92310 S= =C3=A9vres (France) et enregistr=C3=A9e au Registre du Commerce et des Soci= =C3=A9t=C3=A9s de Paris sous le num=C3=A9ro 532 937 596. Mentions L=C3=A9gales : http://news.skoopon.fr/re?l=3Dot28ijI6wj553oI5 Conditions g=C3=A9n=C3=A9rales de ventes : http://news.skoopon.fr/re?l=3Dot= 28ijI6wj553oI6 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 19:20:52 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4CA4106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:20:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lino@unitedpeople.net) Received: from mta-13.siol.net (mta-13.siol.net [193.189.160.143]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2715B8FC08 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:20:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-7.siol.net ([10.10.10.108]) by mta-13.siol.net with ESMTP id <20120331192045.STGW21468.mta-13.siol.net@mail-7.siol.net>; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:20:45 +0200 Received: from gate.unitedpeople.net ([109.182.141.208]) by mail-7.siol.net with ESMTP id <20120331192045.LFKE18331.mail-7.siol.net@gate.unitedpeople.net>; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:20:45 +0200 Received: from [192.168.0.149] (tp.unitedpeople.net [192.168.0.149]) by gate.unitedpeople.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2VJKf2i022245; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:20:42 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lino@unitedpeople.net) Message-ID: <4F775909.8090301@unitedpeople.net> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 21:20:41 +0200 From: Lino Miklav User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD i386; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120221 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Peter A. Giessel" References: <4F75D37C.2020203@lovetemple.net> <2E2ED820-21EA-4025-A4AA-A4CA76C01E29@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <2E2ED820-21EA-4025-A4AA-A4CA76C01E29@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=sFIuSk0YAHMCDFtMxm5MJOHoinLf/9djr2YM5nM0ePA= c=1 sm=0 a=0WghQSSgRgQA:10 a=Uh-h5KfwVtYA:10 a=ZBKmg0BGpY8A:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=j4AfjSv2jDYPV5lfo8wA:9 a=AbcVJ9mbNgjU6Y2LTfkA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Cc: Karel Miklav , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Printer recommendation please X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:20:52 -0000 On 31.03.2012 00:16, Peter A. Giessel wrote: > On 2012, Mar 30, at 11:17, Warren Block wrote: >> It should work with FreeBSD, certainly for text. For graphics >> output, Gutenprint doesn't have a setting specifically for the >> 6500, but one of the similar printers probably will work. Don't >> expect photo quality, color lasers have to do halftones. I've requested a test printout, but they claim their 600 x 600 x 16 technology gives similar results than 1200 dpi inkjets. > It doesn't surprise me that Gutenprint doesn't have a setting > specifically for the 6500 because Xerox provides one: Uf, I have this idea to only use LPD and filters. > I have a Phaser 6300 (older model), and it has worked well for every > OS that I have thrown at it, including Mac, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, > iOS, etc. > > Echoing others, get a real postscript printer, get a real network printer > (not USB), and get a laser printer (although Thermal Wax would also be > acceptable). Just got an incredible deal, Xerox Phaser 6280V DN with toners for 2000+ pages for 362 EUR. That's exactly the price I've paid for ink in the last five years. I think I'll go with this one. Regards and thanks to everyone who chimed in with a piece of good advice. Karel From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 19:45:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E04106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:45:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakub_lach@mailplus.pl) Received: from sam.nabble.com (sam.nabble.com [216.139.236.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79EA48FC0A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:45:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.236.26] (helo=sam.nabble.com) by sam.nabble.com with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1SE4F4-0000QD-EE for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:45:42 -0700 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jakub Lach To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1333223142434-5609272.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <20343.7837.796535.407848@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120331135624.GA46283@ozzmosis.com> <20343.7837.796535.407848@jerusalem.litteratus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: using clang (was: Re: ps, clang and make variables) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:45:48 -0000 /etc/make.conf : .if !empty(.CURDIR:M/usr/ports/*) .endif clang for ports, YMMV as always. http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsAndClang "libreoffice 3.5.x builds and run sucessfully with clang 3.0 and (upcoming) 3.1" - @bapt So wait for libreoffice 3.5 for clang support. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/ps-clang-and-make-variables-tp5608586p5609272.html Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 20:00:48 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8091106566C for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:00:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from modulok@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8236F8FC12 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:00:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qafi31 with SMTP id i31so1293286qaf.15 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:00:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3mn4vsKd4YxxOB9AzG8Cec/Yg70tmFODc77JBeMnoyQ=; b=03WkajjTE22XxhiuYFLsf6CF6YZfvBhGuhSx0/HbqwaX05xRkXOyD8kgoQ56V3oo76 /zOqpV0clS2pW7qHzg7o/NAqSB9M1oCv6AQHgk44XgCgKtaM7al/OoEoefchnIoMXIOD +Lz6g2uvt1Gg+De4D2HLuwtxWA4+UMQK1j64tcBsb+Qu+Gi70o1StVa42V/LoEH4hmnS aIxLSznVkpiyoWz3AsBGS1Pn82xFYvuMUoPLNEeW3wJXtRLnRK05RfBgW+zu73+J1Uo+ oFd4dB4H4bpJ9rxgOY7AtodfUaK1dZV0PPymslB4rMGjDtTMweib6Nuq25S0faFeL5J3 3Cxw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.31.84 with SMTP id x20mr4298008qac.63.1333224041662; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.73.197 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:00:41 -0600 Message-ID: From: Modulok To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Trouble installing py-sqlite3 port for python3.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 20:00:48 -0000 List, I'm *guessing* this is more of FreeBSD problem than a python one, so I'll a= sk on this list. I'm trying to import sqlite3 in python3.2 on FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE and ran into trouble: $ python3.2 ... >>> import sqlite3 Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/sqlite3/__init__.py", line 23, in from sqlite3.dbapi2 import * File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/sqlite3/dbapi2.py", line 26, in from _sqlite3 import * ImportError: No module named _sqlite3 I assumed I was missing some operating system dependent sqlite3 package. Wh= en I attempt to install the 'ports/databases/py-sqlite3' port, it worked but it installed it for python2.6. (Importing sqlite3 works in 2.6) There are no config options for this port to select a python version. Similarly there's = no sqlite3 related config options for the python3.2 port. I then tried to use the python specific install tool, 'pip-3.2' to install = the python module: # pip-3.2 install pysqlite Unfortunately, it fails: Downloading/unpacking pysqlite Real name of requirement pysqlite is pysqlite Downloading pysqlite-2.6.3.tar.gz (74Kb): 74Kb downloaded Running setup.py egg_info for package pysqlite Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 14, in File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/codecs.py", line 300, in decode (result, consumed) =3D self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, f= inal) UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position= 98: invalid continuation byte Complete output from command python setup.py egg_info: Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 14, in File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/codecs.py", line 300, in decode (result, consumed) =3D self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final= ) UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 98: invalid continuation byte ---------------------------------------- Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code 1 Storing complete log in /root/.pip/pip.log The complete log file doesn't reveal much else. My environment doesn't cont= ain any python env var. I don't have any python config files overriding install locations or anything. My /etc/make.conf file contains no python variables.= I can display UTF-8 characters on the console just fine e.g: $ pytho3.2 ... >>> chr(0xe4) '=E4' Suggestions, thoughts, ideas? Thanks! -Modulok- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 22:55:54 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8E1106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:55:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [66.251.72.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3EF8FC18 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:55:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sas1.nber.org (sas1.nber.org [66.251.72.185]) by mail2.nber.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2VMSmY6058158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:28:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for Linux Mail Server 5.6.39/RELEASE, bases: 20120401 #7537973, check: 20120331 clean Subject: Many SATA disks X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:55:54 -0000 We would like to build a FreeBSD machine ourselves with many (~15) SATA drives, but NOT use a RAID controller. We want to be able to remove any drive and connect it to an ordinary motherboard SATA port and mount the filesystem using only the OS provided drivers and tools. I have built many FreeBSD systems, but never used port multipliers and don't know which controllers advertised as RAID controllers will support a plain pass-thru mode. Would anyone like to make a suggestion from actual experience? The system will be used solely for archiving, so performance is not critical, but portability of the partitions to other systems is necessary. Daniel Feenberg NBER From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 23:00:55 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3156C1065673 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:00:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79B58FC14 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:00:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 934385C22 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2012 09:14:28 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F778CA4.1040301@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:00:52 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <4F76DD24.4060104@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <20120331135624.GA46283@ozzmosis.com> <20343.7837.796535.407848@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1333223142434-5609272.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: <1333223142434-5609272.post@n5.nabble.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: using clang X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:00:55 -0000 On 04/01/12 05:45, Jakub Lach wrote: > /etc/make.conf : > > .if !empty(.CURDIR:M/usr/ports/*) > > .endif > > clang for ports, YMMV as always. > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsAndClang Yes but setting that does not seem to affect the ports build operation - make.conf or -DCC etc, Seems to be poorly implemented, setting that should set --cc in the configure, etc. > > "libreoffice 3.5.x builds and run sucessfully > with clang 3.0 and (upcoming) 3.1" - @bapt > > So wait for libreoffice 3.5 for clang support. Not an option ATM. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/ps-clang-and-make-variables-tp5608586p5609272.html > Sent from the freebsd-questions mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 23:04:09 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B546B106566B for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:04:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-questions@herveybayaustralia.com.au) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629928FC15 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:04:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop1.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B22745C22 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2012 09:17:43 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <4F778D67.2060901@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:04:07 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20111109 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: Trouble installing py-sqlite3 port for python3.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:04:09 -0000 On 04/01/12 06:00, Modulok wrote: > List, > > I'm *guessing* this is more of FreeBSD problem than a python one, so I'll ask > on this list. I'm trying to import sqlite3 in python3.2 on FreeBSD > 8.1-RELEASE and ran > into trouble: > > $ python3.2 > ... > >>> import sqlite3 > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/sqlite3/__init__.py", line 23, in > from sqlite3.dbapi2 import * > File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/sqlite3/dbapi2.py", line 26, in > from _sqlite3 import * > ImportError: No module named _sqlite3 > > > I assumed I was missing some operating system dependent sqlite3 package. When I > attempt to install the 'ports/databases/py-sqlite3' port, it worked but it > installed it for python2.6. (Importing sqlite3 works in 2.6) There are no > config options for this port to select a python version. Similarly there's no > sqlite3 related config options for the python3.2 port. > > I then tried to use the python specific install tool, 'pip-3.2' to install the > python module: > > # pip-3.2 install pysqlite > > Unfortunately, it fails: > > Downloading/unpacking pysqlite > Real name of requirement pysqlite is pysqlite > Downloading pysqlite-2.6.3.tar.gz (74Kb): 74Kb downloaded > Running setup.py egg_info for package pysqlite > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 14, in > File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/codecs.py", line 300, in decode > (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final) > UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 98: > invalid continuation byte > Complete output from command python setup.py egg_info: > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "", line 14, in > > File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/codecs.py", line 300, in decode > > (result, consumed) = self._buffer_decode(data, self.errors, final) > > UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 98: > invalid continuation byte > > ---------------------------------------- > Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error code 1 > Storing complete log in /root/.pip/pip.log > > The complete log file doesn't reveal much else. My environment doesn't contain > any python env var. I don't have any python config files overriding install > locations or anything. My /etc/make.conf file contains no python variables. I > can display UTF-8 characters on the console just fine e.g: > > $ pytho3.2 > ... > >>> chr(0xe4) > 'ä' > > Suggestions, thoughts, ideas? Perhaps try ports@? But first try make build-depends-list to obtain more info, but it looks like it may not be supported. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 31 23:52:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF020106564A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd8@a1poweruser.com) Received: from mail-03.name-services.com (mail-03.name-services.com [69.64.155.195]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2FDA8FC1A for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:52:56 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; s=DKIM-NAME-SERVICES; d=a1poweruser.com; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:X-Sender:X-Envelope-From; l=500; bh=o6brrrx6/B+eVO1W1u9+2iWOnzC+3n8VGBkAXStLhYE=; b=C2PAF6BdRr1Rv/mU5I4Exc1phu3Rcgy6SWbpzWZipV2l/QiWvrLeH0pvQ45L6Kijcfj94mI+aKDE4ewihquQaFgkv7llxEFDMxwhQIKukklAxTjOrWlawBcXEpo3sF35zISPd8gCXeWKOedEVAKi72A8rJWvUQ2LshgGxF6+A2M= Received: from [173.88.213.65] ([173.88.213.65]) by mail-03.name-services.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 31 Mar 2012 16:52:50 -0700 Message-ID: <4F7798D0.7000404@a1poweruser.com> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:52:48 -0400 From: Fbsd8 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Mar 2012 23:52:50.0712 (UTC) FILETIME=[61B29980:01CD0F99] X-Sender: fbsd8@a1poweruser.com X-Envelope-From: fbsd8*a1poweruser.com Subject: Access to Time Warner cable network X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 23:52:57 -0000 Just purchased an account on the northern Ohio Time Warner cable system. Having problem connecting to their service. Seems their dhcp server has an ip address of 10.2.0.1 which is not public routable. I know my Freebsd 8.2 box functions because it worked fine under att service which I just left for Time Warner service. MY xp laptop works fine with time warner. I can see that during the connection hand shake they first issue ip addresses 192.168.x.x then end up with real public routable ip address for dns and my ip address. Just the dhcp ip is 10.2.0.1. XP seems to handle this connection hand shake ok. Does any one have any suggestions on how to get Freebsd 8.2 working under TW?