From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 7 09:13:38 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DB1488 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 09:13:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [188.252.31.196]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D646527C7 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 09:13:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r778uoXB001203; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:56:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) with ESMTP id r778unrr001200; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:56:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:56:49 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Yuri Subject: Re: After the FreeBSD VM crash, file system in VM got rolled back to some old previous state causing data loss In-Reply-To: <51FC65DF.2090606@rawbw.com> Message-ID: References: <51FC65DF.2090606@rawbw.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 07 Aug 2013 10:56:50 +0200 (CEST) Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 09:13:38 -0000 > I hit this unexpected problem: my host had an ungraceful shutdown while > FreeBSD 9.1 STABLE was running in the VirtualBox VM. After reboot of the host > and VM, local ufs file system was missing all recent updates for at least 20 > hours (!!!) > My question is, how is this possible? Is this related to journaled > soft-updates which were enabled in VM? not possible in FreeBSD with UFS. but if you run virtualbox under linux i cannot say much... From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 7 11:33:31 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D80C29 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:33:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D5E22420 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:33:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id F245420E3B for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 07:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web3 ([10.202.2.213]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 07 Aug 2013 07:33:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:references :subject:date; s=smtpout; bh=zQ/YoPvYKgHQRNV55vuFGJYg6S8=; b=PNo 0z/oBhaSjXxfzy9Eo11C8KuIlNFAjBjm/gHCGQXQPOgky3GbSUc9raRWGMyWRWzX D7JGNFaU0vmpPdfZWAlDAfVQCkluX2knxpTbA80v988INq5Iw5UcG8uFeyLSGyfE qpJQeLrPmfmW1jg4suwNSN/Xq44uwD2zs1r+dWdg= Received: by web3.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id D5115B02230; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 07:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1375875206.17235.7056435.2CBB92C6@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: J3t03cH8HhJ8jQYFURTtDZWKlOyA4m+0osUOC4ZH/OWR 1375875206 From: Mark Felder To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-d9f253bf In-Reply-To: <51FC65DF.2090606@rawbw.com> References: <51FC65DF.2090606@rawbw.com> Subject: Re: After the FreeBSD VM crash, file system in VM got rolled back to some old previous state causing data loss Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 06:33:26 -0500 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 11:33:31 -0000 Virtualbox is very aggressive about caching writes. This is how it achieves its perceived speed. I wouldn't expect to see this happen on real hardware. I might have to try this out though and see if I can reproduce it reliably. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Aug 7 17:23:10 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685A4809 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 17:23:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell0.rawbw.com (shell0.rawbw.com [198.144.192.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7532A71 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 17:23:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from eagle.yuri.org (stunnel@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell0.rawbw.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r77HN28W053306; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 10:23:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Message-ID: <52028276.20009@rawbw.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 10:23:02 -0700 From: Yuri User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130628 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wojciech Puchar Subject: Re: After the FreeBSD VM crash, file system in VM got rolled back to some old previous state causing data loss References: <51FC65DF.2090606@rawbw.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 17:23:10 -0000 On 08/07/2013 01:56, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > not possible in FreeBSD with UFS. > > but if you run virtualbox under linux i cannot say much... This happened with FreeBSD guest with UFS (journaled soft-updates) and FreeBSD host. What is out of normal, it rolled back for many hours (~20). Yuri From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 8 13:57:30 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A889F6C7 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 13:57:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slobodyanyuk.sergey@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40B5B2495 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 13:57:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f179.google.com with SMTP id hr7so603304wib.0 for ; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:57:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=C26ZbdMTE84wIZRL5ffQTfWxkKHeE3RHmCTjhARmEpU=; b=lR34BlOgPYSbq1Lffqmrf8Ae3R3OccCHisxrP/674uNcBIX+e6w350PXus5X5zXThz eTLuOy9qD0ef/9sjNDf3HaKvwPTXUXBqdWhP2g5R0Su/mL3AZnDeMTF84yBp6iXxwlNg R399W1K8cJnpL6g/ke7lwjeSQftVOUqBUMMtQ2SA22ZyhOsNkgiEpwSVcGrgAiPhCKqu ZTj4lXzmkS1xc/b+xz78IMD4o9WTqBsVvneT00jSZWX7VMsKfOzYiEIlHtXmIpZbq/06 DKDu33lIqRQxJbY0sKQDwXAsxpBcwmzkXag+2zdCHha3k6O/pKxxBZhU1ngyjVxL6Xz/ p9sw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.212.112 with SMTP id nj16mr5199574wic.31.1375970248534; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: slobodyanyuk.sergey@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.61.52 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 06:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 16:57:28 +0300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ECVUpwNl2yI1KSObZBwXEnF9zTA Message-ID: Subject: Re: After the FreeBSD VM crash, file system in VM got rolled back to some old previous state causing data loss From: Sergey Slobodyanyuk To: yuri@rawbw.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:57:30 -0000 > > On 08/07/2013 01:56, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > > > not possible in FreeBSD with UFS. > > > > but if you run virtualbox under linux i cannot say much... > > This happened with FreeBSD guest with UFS (journaled soft-updates) and > FreeBSD host. > What is out of normal, it rolled back for many hours (~20). > > Yuri > > Could be you are using *Immutable images *as type of disk for guest VM 1. *Immutable images.* When an image is switched to "immutable" mode, a differencing image is created as well. As with snapshots, the parent image then becomes read-only, and the differencing image receives all the write operations. Every time the virtual machine is started, all the immutable images which are attached to it have their respective differencing image thrown away, effectively resetting the virtual machine's virtual disk with every restart. http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch05.html //BR, Sergey From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 8 14:55:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86ADDB26 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:55:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patrick_dkt@yahoo.com.hk) Received: from nm13-vm8.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com (nm13-vm8.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com [106.10.149.23]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0667328B1 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 14:55:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [106.10.166.118] by nm13.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2013 14:54:54 -0000 Received: from [106.10.150.25] by tm7.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2013 14:54:53 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1026.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2013 14:54:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 959963.66943.bm@omp1026.mail.sg3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 11080 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Aug 2013 14:54:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.hk; s=s1024; t=1375973693; bh=ugQIt0RVouAtB94Sp6YEc/sTZVmYufe3cyhH8Z6hohA=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=SSdLxuyjsCiVWX9pFdOOsvniiCBvm2w5uKgJwjRuUHXRNVyDQIsyeHz++I9tYXmhsmYdwkBasIcY37sxzKo3EydLWj3U2TkartDtpqxHmHfONCrG9WpQQRcwaCqE97GNS1sf+kSy9wFgMDiy40wgYpzY7UnLDqqw0KVHT9z7SyM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.hk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jnzrL6WUAe7cWk4yiK3O8DwIHvmeDTN8uM0LvwleZmY9xav8CC6XAuOdSKS971vwQgzyjuqEpVmPcww533rP4rim//YwHtrOTF4wEOCDLKjy9vdEEynh8qONP0Jgx5zPLGVi+OYoWzy07Z8nyxi/sY4Zl3jb835hFsxgiH1yMto=; X-YMail-OSG: .MwoYjQVM1mt8QqxP9sPx.fayCcxPn2XYcqCqg9ARV8rnZC hnGY7lMOxf0t5qpbVeQAHdI.rltsy8oo8P5ODRxRm9HLAXaR3KTSf77zAtXB 50s3Vl7RLTuIrZtDEsp6j7y8sl9Inipb4F9Tcpv.Gq7Ut8yjf3RoHjnW8SYx c6J5en2yxytl.iPVmKFAAVMX6uEtimz7XPj0j8l0zvzh2JvmmaAZiDxaTh_g 3ir0qyNyLgm7fuW4hb94X_bDutFedLOh8SNgu3e04TlxSVJy_eGVcNCAYXCj gH53WMVjpggewWVSXPtE0YxGwD7VsstKh2.r8p5ju4CxUBzZdXgm7nnFYysy vTEGNNL0P5no6FBGYsLttcFotT7JYtCmyXW8Hb37SRj3Knb8wC7UWBaygfOf PTIq.au8Vc4we7j_33apcaG.boJFa1ytDieGY5H4vdTeUlN0993G8OhUC5kE hYl_YsBAVg5E_bR8cYJTPesf0NojGqAG4XPdXcADEJdyOKt4gqQF7hpNddpf 4pUX.fEybvC6ST2eV450gnhr.714.BzmGyvqWHbbm8YsaPbRwyopShuE- Received: from [61.15.240.116] by web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Aug 2013 22:54:53 SGT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, SGVsbG8sCgpGcmVlQlNEIGlzIHNvIHBvd2VyZnVsIGFuZCBncmVhdC4KSSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIGRpc2N1c3Mgc29tZSBpZGVhcyBvciB3aXNoIGxpc3Qgd2l0aCB5b3UgZ3V5czoKCjEpIFBlcmwgdmVyc2lvbiBjaGFuZ2Ugd2l0aGluIE1ham9yIHJlbGVhc2UKSWYgSSByZW1lbWJlcmVkIGNvcnJlY3RseSwgRnJlZUJTRCA5LjAgc2hpcHBlZCB3aXRoIHBlcmwgNS4xMiBwYWNrYWdlcyBpbiB0aGUgRFZELgpCdXQgaW4gRnJlZUJTRCA5LjEsIFBlcmwgNS4xNCBpcyBzaGlwcGVkLgoKSSB0aGluayBQZXJsIHYBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.152.567 References: Message-ID: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 22:54:53 +0800 (SGT) From: Patrick Dung Subject: Discussing ideas or wish list To: freebsd hackers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Patrick Dung List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 14:55:03 -0000 Hello, FreeBSD is so powerful and great. I would like to discuss some ideas or wish list with you guys: 1) Perl version change within Major release If I remembered correctly, FreeBSD 9.0 shipped with perl 5.12 packages in the DVD. But in FreeBSD 9.1, Perl 5.14 is shipped. I think Perl version should be consistent in the FreeBSD 9 series. The change of Perl version may make user difficult to upgrade other perl packages due to dependency issues. I know pkgng should replaced the old package management tools in FreeBSD 10, I hope the situation would improve. 2) pkgng I think it has checksum checking on the files in the packages. Could pkgng detect the packages was being tampered? Or how can user authenticate that the package is build by FreeBSD? 3) FreeBSD's own systat Yes. there is bsdsar in the ports, but I would like to see improvement. For example, stat for multiple CPU, number of open files/context switches, one statistics file per day, etc... Thanks and regards, Patrick Dung From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 8 15:22:14 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A45A48 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:22:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emorrasg@yahoo.es) Received: from nm4-vm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com (nm4-vm1.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com [77.238.189.201]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 50EC02AF6 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:22:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [77.238.189.51] by nm4.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2013 15:22:11 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.104] by tm4.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2013 15:22:11 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp141.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Aug 2013 15:22:11 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.es; s=s1024; t=1375975331; bh=QdlIkoUobW5yLLCAH975eiyMlNJsgp4LpmPWYs/J2VE=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:Disposition-Notification-To:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CjPOOK1DMsZW3toR+FJqrdW7IQ74ye0ImisWgAqcIwPHyswe6nZ3LWEhVorpD8OvD2yfUmK3BNmJ5k6RxjZJsJLW/5SYKy8dZs2pk6YyUU7FOx2flIqeMmnui0wza3drsFLEBm4NN+HgF17oqfGQpUjz/ENlKe1S+ldeMt7GclY= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 778290.27528.bm@smtp141.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: nPcJMPQVM1kpNo.KSDKVfYdqYUVDY31Cesf7_Rc.wB8rvDZ bC7YzryxS9TqyjUzcDHq74.jV8KXXargptIUTFjQFQ2IB5ZpnlvvfBcMpLkk KQ9wuJKS_hQeutw0ePnSh24fQ3eZxhtw.0GUNuy62LZosZ7cjN4Ahk97HEb_ d8VdiI9K3LQWhpCMStBZM0CYLpJug3_4WTVwfoOgzbCe_.93BvrFJbn6zhuw TxYpkI2SospZRmNeGM5tSOfDfQmUCVzZKLGxXzfxmWOJenBioBzOnFAfWJZb Mt2BX98znZLTpO9irUMlPYgJwkyoORNANnZtYNDdxoYGN6rEXCVnGX_HP6Ed XacmyYDXVCGu7nrOhk8.i1KO4pRC7RQ5AKbSJf0UtgdT3qhh1TL1bBKSMsa4 R4eueunF3.Nn4Sqsadx3bc_5rRnqrE1PvUx.B3sYWzfhPCFtdOL8.DwYtK7Q FQrH96JTv7u5Jwo6pz47yL2xmwvlTVtYNlRvKn5ik_yC.JrMnjalGlZI- X-Yahoo-SMTP: mX392iiswBAeJNdO_s.EW62LZDJR X-Rocket-Received: from camibar.emorras.eu (emorrasg@89.7.216.154 with ) by smtp141.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 08 Aug 2013 15:22:11 +0000 UTC Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:22:12 +0200 From: Eduardo Morras To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list Message-Id: <20130808172212.ada4447193763a53529fa501@yahoo.es> In-Reply-To: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.24.19; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Patrick Dung X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:22:14 -0000 On Thu, 8 Aug 2013 22:54:53 +0800 (SGT) Patrick Dung wrote: > 3) FreeBSD's own systat > Yes. there is bsdsar in the ports, but I would like to see improvement. > For example, stat for multiple CPU, number of open files/context switches, one statistics file per day, etc... There's already systat on base system. For the information you want do: a) Type on terminal/xterm #systat 1 b) Press ':' and type 'vmstat' (without quotes) You have the statistics updated every second. Press ':' and type 'help' to see other commands information screens. > > Thanks and regards, > Patrick Dung HTH --- --- Eduardo Morras From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 8 15:34:23 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D16A for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:34:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5D562C6C for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:34:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.44]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9232820B69 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web3 ([10.202.2.213]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:34:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to :references; s=smtpout; bh=MN7PYhS9IYILrr0po+BETMRX1a8=; b=GbCME 4svoQkyhgarvGsZeSfjBkNvSw+o5+wZm09p7fg9Q8MVVPpuo+QiSP0SXw3mlGtiB TGjdhArYRvGiIFMe2qFrOxx8hQ5w0PwuPZzOoNS/4krizjN4GCS9tGUTWXLb7R2e fsB7EutuYVCiAvFQwb2Le29Wn7lRd6mJYKeG3I= Received: by web3.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id 769ACB022F2; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:34:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1375976061.30215.7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: hH/Ly03fh333xPnVOIWag0A6SDU6eI2+UqRegGUfflSQ 1375976061 From: Mark Felder To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-d9f253bf Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:34:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> References: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:34:23 -0000 On Thu, Aug 8, 2013, at 9:54, Patrick Dung wrote: > > 1) Perl version change within Major release > If I remembered correctly, FreeBSD 9.0 shipped with perl 5.12 packages in > the DVD. > But in FreeBSD 9.1, Perl 5.14 is shipped. > > I think Perl version should be consistent in the FreeBSD 9 series. > The change of Perl version may make user difficult to upgrade other perl > packages due to dependency issues. The ports tree is a "rolling release" and decides what the default perl version is, not the FreeBSD release. Let's ignore that though and take a peek into history using FreeBSD 8 series as an example because it's closer to EoL. Perl 5.8.0 is officially released July 18, 2002. Perl 5.8.9 is officially EoL on Nov 6, 2008. FreeBSD 8.0 released Nov 25, 2009. The ports tree's default Perl version at that point in time is Perl 5.8.9. Both Perl 5.8.9 and 5.10.1 are available as packages at that time. FreeBSD 8.4 released June 7, 2013. The ports tree's default Perl version at that point in time is 5.14.2. FreeBSD 8.4 could be the last release in the FreeBSD 8.x series. Its estimated EoL is June 30, 2015. Do you see the problem with having to support an ancient Perl version that is 13 years old? I'd suspect many modern Perl applications to not even work on Perl 5.8.9. > I know pkgng should replaced the old package management tools in FreeBSD > 10, I hope the situation would improve. > After the EoL of FreeBSD 8 (estimated June 30, 2015) the old package tools are scheduled to be removed from FreeBSD. This change will be MFC'd back to 9-STABLE and the release at that time (perhaps 9.4-RELEASE?) will not have the old pkg_* tools. This seems a bit odd to happen in the middle of a series because of POLA, but we can't support the old package tools forever and FreeBSD 9.1-9.3 will have given you plenty of opportunity to migrate to the new package format and ease the upgrade to FreeBSD 10.x. > 2) pkgng > I think it has checksum checking on the files in the packages. > Could pkgng detect the packages was being tampered? man pkg-check pkg check -s is used to find invalid checksums for installed packages. > Or how can user authenticate that the package is build by FreeBSD? > I don't think packages are signed yet, but this is permitted by the new pkg design and will hopefully happen before too long. > 3) FreeBSD's own systat > Yes. there is bsdsar in the ports, but I would like to see improvement. > For example, stat for multiple CPU, number of open files/context > switches, one statistics file per day, etc... > I think systat is great, too. We could probably import some functionality from OpenBSD as I recall their systat has more features. Thank you for your feedback and I hope I've answered a couple of your questions. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 8 15:36:56 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4C9288 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:36:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1B4D2CB6 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 15:36:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA37B20FF8 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:36:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web3 ([10.202.2.213]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 08 Aug 2013 11:36:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:references :subject:date; s=smtpout; bh=6zAsQ7LmvSIkuhgkrnUOGiRwaAk=; b=DJw XVRUo+GW6OqpI8GSK2Gng3GxGSD/IdUk2/bu5GFfei7JvoZBlPXj8t0Uq0YY+XCS 74AdCrkjgZd+PBBxfMzUfaBDASrHzcscL9ttx5o3woPR7/Vserua7tSnir5F2pim 9J7EM8ccAlX0kH8lNSFEH/pX+WOEpS2fE3g8zftY= Received: by web3.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id E82DAB022F1; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 11:36:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1375976213.30908.7565131.6911282E@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: 2I43P9tKd++nQI1QUCEdYX2U/Lt0eYKtalGK/Mk7xog+ 1375976213 From: Mark Felder To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-d9f253bf In-Reply-To: <1375976061.30215.7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <1375976061.30215.7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com> Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:36:53 -0500 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:36:57 -0000 On Thu, Aug 8, 2013, at 10:34, Mark Felder wrote: > After the EoL of FreeBSD 8 (estimated June 30, 2015) the old package > tools are scheduled to be removed from FreeBSD. This change will be > MFC'd back to 9-STABLE and the release at that time (perhaps > 9.4-RELEASE?) will not have the old pkg_* tools. This seems a bit odd to > happen in the middle of a series because of POLA, but we can't support > the old package tools forever and FreeBSD 9.1-9.3 will have given you > plenty of opportunity to migrate to the new package format and ease the > upgrade to FreeBSD 10.x. > Note this isn't set in stone. Watch the Roadmap on this page: https://wiki.freebsd.org/pkgng/CharterAndRoadMap From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 8 16:02:27 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0676E0; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 16:02:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90B1B2F32; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 16:02:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4AEB6A6004; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 18:02:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r78G2P9H079406; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 18:02:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r78G2PXr079344; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 18:02:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 18:02:25 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: Mark Felder Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list Message-ID: <20130808160225.GI85426@e-new.0x20.net> References: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <1375976061.30215.7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EpkyL+bqoEXyQ6vo" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1375976061.30215.7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:02:27 -0000 --EpkyL+bqoEXyQ6vo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 08, 2013 at 10:34:21AM -0500, Mark Felder wrote: >=20 > I think systat is great, too. We could probably import some > functionality from OpenBSD as I recall their systat has more features. It depends. FreeBSD's systat has some features that OpenBSD's doesn't have and vice versa (list take from the manpages): FreeBSD: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D icmp Display, in the lower window, statistics about messages icmp6 This display is like the icmp display, but displays statis- ip Otherwise identical to the icmp display, except that it dis- ip6 Like the ip display, except that it displays IPv6 statistics. tcp Like icmp, but with TCP statistics. OpenBSD: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D buckets Display kernel malloc(9) bucket statistics similar to the malloc Display kernel malloc(9) type statistics similar to the nfsclient Display statistics about NFS client activity. Output nfsserver Display statistics about NFS server activity. Output pf Display filter information about pf(4), similar to the output pool Display kernel pool(9) statistics similar to the output of queues Display statistics about the active altq(9) queues, similar rules Display pf rules statistics, similar to the output of pfctl sensors Display the current values of available hardware sensors, in states Display pf states statistics, similar to the output of pfctl --EpkyL+bqoEXyQ6vo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAlIDwREACgkQKc512sD3afjsmACfXeaBqVKRcdytKihHHlUctgZp G3oAn3x1v7UtsEa/xvkWlTakaVKruSHu =g3ac -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EpkyL+bqoEXyQ6vo-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 8 17:09:00 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21173BC for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:08:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87AA7257B for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 17:08:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.2.117.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r78H8trO097048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2013 18:08:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.3 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk r78H8trO097048 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1375981735; bh=Q1t82FBHACNpZJ/HFWb3VhsbgEHDFqT9pRO2BSYpK7o=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; z=Date:=20Thu,=2008=20Aug=202013=2018:08:54=20+0100|From:=20Matthew =20Seaman=20|To:=20freebsd-hacker s@freebsd.org|Subject:=20Re:=20Discussing=20ideas=20or=20wish=20li st|References:=20<1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3. yahoo.com>=20<1375976061.30215.7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messaginge ngine.com>=20<1375976213.30908.7565131.6911282E@webmail.messaginge ngine.com>|In-Reply-To:=20<1375976213.30908.7565131.6911282E@webma il.messagingengine.com>; b=DeZziW7Q8XM9qJjuYEN7Ifapru0Bmd7RFWH+Wykli9Z+B33L4XAHinWrrN6H1E3ht jX9LVdUMwT8xGLdugTvSvP+tV+ToOHAEurv/M/m+RFVYa5lnwxibWD8wPM5sENxazX wdBmwINGu/x8ZTWFimqcEjyKPqJvmhEkIMQehTiM= Message-ID: <5203D0A6.3090705@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 18:08:54 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list References: <1375973693.6986.YahooMailNeo@web193502.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <1375976061.30215.7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1375976213.30908.7565131.6911282E@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1375976213.30908.7565131.6911282E@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 OpenPGP: id=60AE908C Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8FnU2O5kLnGoSahTTJf5waEHSMVVCRb3X" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.8 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:09:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --8FnU2O5kLnGoSahTTJf5waEHSMVVCRb3X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 08/08/2013 16:36, Mark Felder wrote: > On Thu, Aug 8, 2013, at 10:34, Mark Felder wrote: >> After the EoL of FreeBSD 8 (estimated June 30, 2015) the old package >> tools are scheduled to be removed from FreeBSD. This change will be >> MFC'd back to 9-STABLE and the release at that time (perhaps >> 9.4-RELEASE?) will not have the old pkg_* tools. This seems a bit odd = to >> happen in the middle of a series because of POLA, but we can't support= >> the old package tools forever and FreeBSD 9.1-9.3 will have given you >> plenty of opportunity to migrate to the new package format and ease th= e >> upgrade to FreeBSD 10.x. >> >=20 > Note this isn't set in stone. Watch the Roadmap on this page: >=20 > https://wiki.freebsd.org/pkgng/CharterAndRoadMap Actually, that RoadMap is in dire need of updating. The OS release schedule got reworked after the RoadMap was written and the security incident and the consequent necessity of completely redesigning and rebuilding the pkgng package building system has added various delays too= =2E Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk --8FnU2O5kLnGoSahTTJf5waEHSMVVCRb3X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlID0KYACgkQ8Mjk52CukIyHzwCfaK2Ik3d9cYLf6/Nz/qcBY1kr zaoAnjzOVurS6bYHfBERBFUfTF8PlR4q =cUqo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8FnU2O5kLnGoSahTTJf5waEHSMVVCRb3X-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 9 16:36:49 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76DB67ED for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 16:36:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patrick_dkt@yahoo.com.hk) Received: from nm3-vm5.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com (nm3-vm5.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com [106.10.148.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FE8422B8 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 16:36:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [106.10.166.123] by nm3.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2013 16:34:36 -0000 Received: from [106.10.151.170] by tm12.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2013 16:34:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1010.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Aug 2013 16:34:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 313942.38172.bm@omp1010.mail.sg3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 81738 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Aug 2013 16:34:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.hk; s=s1024; t=1376066076; bh=rIXkXb6ldPznccaaoHCnMDJvxRNsgmyEtaz1PhEkTEs=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=3n7vXyJjlQ7NDdoQhHR12D9KBs9RGQWZLTmHuwDY2HO0H45pHQKxhjcXIKVDpHXKbdiuu4zuCl8qDut+1mQ4lkQkdAe8dJfqm5VZVBCECX3FYEx4ItS49qj+U+WzKG5YkBSwna5G2MjZGSHriMnyY2uT0gL9qJC4ElZHqKO21bw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.hk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=51sgKhP2jfYAaiMMfUlz1w3QdP5I6tuHFQLVcbWSCw4SYbWsCz+oJfPVn+VUEeezhRa9keCLXQJ8UQs1JpeWICYNrkIIwCQqMeg3J+mb0kFJa3stk6qjRqlR2rurrws206n+ZnkUuJ1lx6OTZYa+Tmr4S7gU3CAT7kv8cmQ1f5I=; X-YMail-OSG: P_0EcrEVM1nNpIrQKH3swhY5KsgdRtUWT1KekDYWycu_tZA oHtRcfiCABCwolLKX8jM.q8LfXsmhEZDnWhCo4N5xoh6OKNbb.btxnyEfxuF png6_oRyQgREbeBOWYfhXROc.gUbGusMRt_500rAVWDES7RxiAbQS1t0roW8 nzNvv3M5l6cUcP3T9YCouaZT3YPwLC.f9B.el0UR_qPuZqF__McNhXRO76X2 plbHIR23KNdw6q0jNkscLU.wDA2u0VL.KW3gsRUT5I.t9wxHhL9TZcLnF_PJ huH7cUA16gOYIwVDLN8YtVwaC73bk0RdCcsta0DJCvpsLPngwZfvCeISieG9 I2v34qjo2UvQ1MPQJqz6cBNu6WGzz5o30UVwfjaI5aJaaTZDYibL.sGtqXYF hgSwlKUIjQjGAdDDywhnIbAlKuk0WVj.JHuFLs4dUVA5QBY9PQIED0MSde8L 7Y_4LZMBi7JUcs7eu6qYzeGoNgikS5JBkEg3xouR4knQrcng3c5Gwyf_bxm6 r64weLzxdIi7PhPDeS9C6NTxk5DNriFVWIFZSRc3NU8DuV5vtTvUAaFRdhVq 2OB1rUOeAFtytnA-- Received: from [61.15.240.116] by web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 00:34:35 SGT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, VGhhbmtzIGZvciByZXBseS4KCkkgYW0gYW4gdXNlci4gSSBhbSB1c2luZyBvciB0aGlua2luZyBmcm9tIHRoZSB1c2VyIHBlcnNwZWN0aXZlLgoKMSkgUGVybCB2ZXJzaW9uIGNoYW5nZSB3aXRoaW4gTWFqb3IgcmVsZWFzZQoKCj4gRG8geW91IHNlZSB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSB3aXRoIGhhdmluZyB0byBzdXBwb3J0IGFuIGFuY2llbnQgUGVybCB2ZXJzaW9uCj4gdGhhdCBpcyAxMyB5ZWFycyBvbGQ_IEknZCBzdXNwZWN0IG1hbnkgbW9kZXJuIFBlcmwgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHRvIG5vdAo.IGV2ZW4gd29yayBvbiABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.153.572 References: Message-ID: <1376066075.81690.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 00:34:35 +0800 (SGT) From: Patrick Dung Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Patrick Dung List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:36:49 -0000 Thanks for reply.=0A=0AI am an user. I am using or thinking from the user p= erspective.=0A=0A1) Perl version change within Major release=0A=0A=0A> Do y= ou see the problem with having to support an ancient Perl version=0A> that = is 13 years old? I'd suspect many modern Perl applications to not=0A> even = work on Perl 5.8.9.=0A=0ACentOS shipped Perl 5.8 in CentOS 5 series. They s= hipped Perl 5.10 in CentOS 6 series.=0ASo far I have no problem in doing th= e OS upgrade within the minor release.=0AIt is because the Perl (or other p= ackages eg. gcc/python) version is consistent between the OS major versions= .=0A=0ALet share an experience for my case.=0AI have installed OTRS (a grea= t ticketing system) in FreeBSD 9.0. The Perl version at that time is 5.12.= =0AFor me, upgrading to FreeBSD 9.1 take some time because the Perl version= at that time is 5.14.=0AOTRS depends on lots of Perl/p5 modules/packages.= =0AThis is not scalable if I need to upgrade multiple servers.=0A=0A=0ASome= (crazy?) ideas:=0Aa) Is it possible to install multiple Perl versions in t= he same server?=0AEach third party Perl packages would linked to the corres= ponding Perl versions?=0AUsers have to update /usr/bin/perl to link to the = desired Perl version (or using wrapper mechanism like /etc/mail/mail.conf).= =0A=0A=0AThe installed package may like these:=0Aperl58-5.8.xxx=0Ap5-perl58= -Net-zzz=0A=0Aperl510-5.10.yyy=0Ap5-perl510-Net-zzz=0A=0A=0AIn this case, t= he user can install multiple Perl in the FreeBSD system.=0A=0Ab) Try to use= the newest stable Perl version at the very beginning FreeBSD major release= .=0AAnd try to maintain the Perl major version consistent within the FreeBS= D minor release.=0A=0AFor example, using Perl 5.14 at FreeBSD 9.0 and Perl = 5.18 for FreeBSD 10.0.=0A=0A2) pkgng=0A=0A> man pkg-check=0A=0A>=A0 pkg che= ck -s is used to find invalid checksums for installed packages.=0A=0A=0AI t= hink this does not protect from the checksum and the files is being changed= at the same time.=0AWhen using pkg_add -r, I am concerned that if the pack= ages was being tampered.=0AAnd I have no way to verify it.=0A=0A>> Or how c= an user authenticate that the package is build by FreeBSD?=0A=0A>I don't th= ink packages are signed yet, but this is permitted by the new=0A>pkg design= and will hopefully happen before too long.=0A=0A=0AGood to hear that.=0A= =0A=0A3) systat=0AI hope systat can record statistics periodically.=0ACurre= ntly systat is like 'top', that is monitoring system resources in real time= .=0A=0AThanks and regards,=0APatrick Dung=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________= __________=0AMessage: 4=0ADate: Thu, 08 Aug 2013 10:34:21 -0500=0AFrom: Mar= k Felder =0ATo: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org=0ASubject: Re= : Discussing ideas or wish list=0AMessage-ID:=0A=A0=A0=A0 <1375976061.30215= .7553799.0E22B6D0@webmail.messagingengine.com>=0AContent-Type: text/plain= =0A=0AOn Thu, Aug 8, 2013, at 9:54, Patrick Dung wrote:=0A>=0A> 1) Perl ver= sion change within Major release=0A> If I remembered correctly, FreeBSD 9.0= shipped with perl 5.12 packages in=0A> the DVD.=0A> But in FreeBSD 9.1, Pe= rl 5.14 is shipped.=0A> =0A> I think Perl version should be consistent in t= he FreeBSD 9 series.=0A> The change of Perl version may make user difficult= to upgrade other perl=0A> packages due to dependency issues.=0A=0AThe port= s tree is a "rolling release"=A0 and decides what the default perl=0Aversio= n is, not the FreeBSD release. Let's ignore that though and take a=0Apeek i= nto history using FreeBSD 8 series as an example because it's=0Acloser to E= oL.=0A=0APerl 5.8.0 is officially released July 18, 2002.=0APerl 5.8.9 is o= fficially EoL on Nov 6, 2008.=0A=0AFreeBSD 8.0 released Nov 25, 2009. The p= orts tree's default Perl version=0Aat that point in time is Perl 5.8.9. Bot= h Perl 5.8.9 and 5.10.1 are=0Aavailable as packages at that time.=0A=0AFree= BSD 8.4 released June 7, 2013. The ports tree's default Perl version=0Aat t= hat point in time is 5.14.2.=0A=0AFreeBSD 8.4 could be the last release in = the FreeBSD 8.x series. Its=0Aestimated EoL is June 30, 2015.=0A=0ADo you s= ee the problem with having to support an ancient Perl version=0Athat is 13 = years old? I'd suspect many modern Perl applications to not=0Aeven work on = Perl 5.8.9.=0A=0A> I know pkgng should replaced the old package management = tools in FreeBSD=0A> 10, I hope the situation would improve.=0A> =0A=0AAfte= r the EoL of FreeBSD 8 (estimated June 30, 2015) the old package=0Atools ar= e scheduled to be removed from FreeBSD. This change will be=0AMFC'd back to= 9-STABLE and the release at that time (perhaps=0A9.4-RELEASE?) will not ha= ve the old pkg_* tools. This seems a bit odd to=0Ahappen in the middle of a= series because of POLA, but we can't support=0Athe old package tools forev= er and FreeBSD 9.1-9.3 will have given you=0Aplenty of opportunity to migra= te to the new package format and ease the=0Aupgrade to FreeBSD 10.x.=0A=0A>= 2) pkgng=0A> I think it has checksum checking on the files in the packages= .=0A> Could pkgng detect the packages was being tampered?=0A=0Aman pkg-chec= k=0A=0A=A0 pkg check -s is used to find invalid checksums for installed pac= kages.=0A=0A> Or how can user authenticate that the package is build by Fre= eBSD?=0A> =0A=0AI don't think packages are signed yet, but this is permitte= d by the new=0Apkg design and will hopefully happen before too long.=0A=0A>= 3) FreeBSD's own systat=0A> Yes. there is bsdsar in the ports, but I would= like to see improvement.=0A> For example, stat for multiple CPU, number of= open files/context=0A> switches, one statistics file per day, etc...=0A> = =0A=0AI think systat is great, too. We could probably import some=0Afunctio= nality from OpenBSD as I recall their systat has more features.=0A=0A=0ATha= nk you for your feedback and I hope I've answered a couple of your=0Aquesti= ons. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Aug 9 22:38:16 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453EFD4B for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:38:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com) Received: from rush.bluerosetech.com (rush.bluerosetech.com [IPv6:2607:fc50:1000:9b00::25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B5F926DF for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 22:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (c-76-27-220-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [76.27.220.79]) by rush.bluerosetech.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04BB111434; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:fc00:970::b891:3ab8:57cd:8121] (unknown [IPv6:fc00:970::b891:3ab8:57cd:8121]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FC90E4F; Fri, 9 Aug 2013 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <52056F38.7030701@bluerosetech.com> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 15:37:44 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Patrick Dung Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list References: <1376066075.81690.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1376066075.81690.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2013 22:38:16 -0000 On 8/9/2013 9:34 AM, Patrick Dung wrote: > Let share an experience for my case. I have installed OTRS (a great > ticketing system) in FreeBSD 9.0. The Perl version at that time is > 5.12. For me, upgrading to FreeBSD 9.1 take some time because the > Perl version at that time is 5.14. OTRS depends on lots of Perl/p5 > modules/packages. This is not scalable if I need to upgrade multiple > servers. Perl is not in the base system, so why is this an issue? If you need 5.12 on 9.1, install lang/perl5.12. From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 10 04:32:26 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04437C84 for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 04:32:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from patrick_dkt@yahoo.com.hk) Received: from nm34-vm1.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com (nm34-vm1.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com [106.10.151.240]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E75A275D for ; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 04:32:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [106.10.166.122] by nm34.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Aug 2013 04:29:54 -0000 Received: from [106.10.151.171] by tm11.bullet.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Aug 2013 04:29:53 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1011.mail.sg3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Aug 2013 04:29:53 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 859885.39096.bm@omp1011.mail.sg3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 18801 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Aug 2013 04:29:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com.hk; s=s1024; t=1376108993; bh=L8Jbxe6HFpdZ6Itp6LFwB9R1tJH3q55zyFEkHyUnl5o=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jc4vFkm7acHk83douDfw48KWuLzgJoQALlNehHOLuD6cu/nBzrdoyUKjorcF8H6Y2YHuNXrr1Gi2yxCGvoVZ42mOttLcJua/gpOEXtRRfOJbUSnx7KHZf7V1mw3TmYBZ76vGAoh4ugxKOLELuscEebYlGGU2UUr3Wt1SjAb61Pg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.hk; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=2ILQa//d3RThMjeC1PP+4YUS+Ws8nPMhWpvk1asg/7Ey8KIKTNfz3tYoF9ENMfebd+HvCyq2PtVH9ZUglOHCeHywseJrLFTylc0Od4Z1+oioiJmHCcak1NMOjmhHc/vuplf2adCajAoak3ZQ6dF93V6pw5VX2R8qTgrFUOYkwJY=; X-YMail-OSG: zDYDBOUVM1mk.y7Jz9kzX5kgzIX9cpjjQ5QBInlgrbkVeJe KMWLTJzuqZgfc76VK4DHKiN6IKzGfShciokD_fRXVwPrRZA3Cun2gllCWeiF ViOkhcQBrrB8GsYV8gCMHMxzOvLv8LTLDvNshSNgjUA9TiA1AQ5huADjrLwd k28ifu1wdos3nFleKzJdj91fuyaVi9qJPKCUatIIoadnHGrdIbcMJyp4q_nt Ni7FdOAHqgDCVlk_CoJQmKcERJoH94qf5PUySBDP_RMAi04MItkFwkL2JiW0 KERsqSvJTwYp6pC9rh.H4GZePVW7gTLgO5xZhAXIrerXtRDO2JfbjgnDaiDd SPXGc1qQBWAYvRjhzfslv7zeATXcV38mx_WIm7T5oo0YA1S0j6RLY.NDJWg. qK6h4.dQYMlsi0H1o6TfIDm.xBucwFWVrI5cPr6dLuKn.GEvN_9d_VT7xff4 SRYUYjYC1mROPyCQmG.2C.rEfXmU_toNrhGwoqMOdWLrSlGxCGZnKyeV3_g3 D7wNVgEA0zq2v_JhirFLpRhGIbHSHUrE5n9RKorkVDsYRRMhbtoSZ.tcQNZ9 5flA- Received: from [61.15.240.116] by web193505.mail.sg3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 10 Aug 2013 12:29:53 SGT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, WWVzLCBJIGNhbiBpbnN0YWxsIGxhbmcvcGVybDUuMTIuCkJ1dCBpbiB0aGF0IGNhc2UsIEkgY2FuJ3QgaW5zdGFsbCBvdGhlciBwZXJsIC9wNSBwcmUtYnVpbGQgcGFja2FnZXMgKHdoaWNoIGRlcGVuZHMgb24gUGVybCA1LjE0KSBwcm92aWRlZCBieSBGcmVlQlNELCBkdWUgdG8gZGVwZW5kZW5jeSBwcm9ibGVtLgoKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCiBGcm9tOiBEYXJyZW4gUGlsZ3JpbSA8bGlzdF9mcmVlYnNkQGJsdWVyb3NldGVjaC5jb20.ClRvOiBQYXRyaWNrIER1bmcgPHBhdHIBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.153.572 References: <1376066075.81690.YahooMailNeo@web193503.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> <52056F38.7030701@bluerosetech.com> Message-ID: <1376108993.18621.YahooMailNeo@web193505.mail.sg3.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 12:29:53 +0800 (SGT) From: Patrick Dung Subject: Re: Discussing ideas or wish list To: Darren Pilgrim In-Reply-To: <52056F38.7030701@bluerosetech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: freebsd hackers X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: Patrick Dung List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 04:32:26 -0000 Yes, I can install lang/perl5.12.=0ABut in that case, I can't install other= perl /p5 pre-build packages (which depends on Perl 5.14) provided by FreeB= SD, due to dependency problem.=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A = From: Darren Pilgrim =0ATo: Patrick Dung =0ACc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" =0ASent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:37 AM=0ASubject: Re: D= iscussing ideas or wish list=0A =0A=0AOn 8/9/2013 9:34 AM, Patrick Dung wro= te:=0A> Let share an experience for my case. I have installed OTRS (a great= =0A> ticketing system) in FreeBSD 9.0. The Perl version at that time is=0A>= 5.12. For me, upgrading to FreeBSD 9.1 take some time because the=0A> Perl= version at that time is 5.14. OTRS depends on lots of Perl/p5=0A> modules/= packages. This is not scalable if I need to upgrade multiple=0A> servers.= =0A=0APerl is not in the base system, so why is this an issue?=A0 If you ne= ed =0A5.12 on 9.1, install lang/perl5.12.