From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 26 11:06:44 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE3A147 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:06:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206c::16:87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F161285A for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:06:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r7QB6ieF065931 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:06:44 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r7QB6hbs065929 for freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:06:43 GMT (envelope-from owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:06:43 GMT Message-Id: <201308261106.r7QB6hbs065929@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: gnats set sender to owner-bugmaster@FreeBSD.org using -f From: FreeBSD bugmaster To: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org Subject: Current problem reports assigned to freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 11:06:44 -0000 Note: to view an individual PR, use: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=(number). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. S Tracker Resp. Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- f kern/156241 hardware [mfi] 'zfs send' does not prevents disks to suspend if 1 problem total. From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 09:15:19 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5F452C; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:15:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kpaasial@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qe0-x22f.google.com (mail-qe0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B50F921CB; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:15:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qe0-f47.google.com with SMTP id b4so71839qen.20 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:15:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=tA7Htti2OL1zeeRvjcrqUh80iH0lXzTmHQHqCjyxmwc=; b=I5PD/MNrvdzL4zzns3YpmbeGL0S8Aseo39AK9UiO6XpaOnFTdeBTkgMgwJUKphE9UA M12kN1c/4TmsOVwJXokGfWhIZzM0Eic7MO8JqE4MnPDaJs1ZKGvChnFXOCzpBiX/SPfy jLO7kMl6ApzNCfpIENNFA1zdAH7deNPVgmTP2/3qKP8KoY/HuL52ZjOcTtYnNkqGd7fy 6C/Ai3SO7AzRAwDtyCOlNSVK3kP2ZrUagtw1mN13UB31CjvxjzOcLXyg0p/2snXfzcy/ UWmCHf3jqlGewyHhZqrO9xOmY4RsuqC0lJAt66Iy9IEoPmAMUs6Y+0yNBiA1c4s+0xbp pTAg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.76.98 with SMTP id j2mr2587551qew.41.1377767717789; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.5.195 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 02:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:15:17 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? From: Kimmo Paasiala To: FreeBSD current , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:15:19 -0000 In reference to this FreeBSD forums post: http://forums.freebsd.org/showpost.php?p=231135&postcount=4 Would it be a good time to remove those from GENERIC since the hardware they are for is becoming so seriously outdated? There's always an option to load those drivers as modules if needed. -Kimmo From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 10:56:56 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51952CF7; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:56:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wg0-x236.google.com (mail-wg0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C1552BB2; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:56:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f54.google.com with SMTP id e11so261723wgh.9 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:56:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=rSHv0Hwxj5bF8tKec2UYNfuIn1G++WBwBxYqX5hwcbw=; b=h1G2fGQtGrhuqwKcuCdUfngLyY9iS1DytNl1IqaucnNRZr97ENQUbOgoEUJ7Beb+Bn LB/xwPPAZ5focdJ7JcC0jlLsFcHx6rjsB8VLCVnZQ2aSTXxsxVofx5l9sA97vWUXJWrb YiFWPiNnd7u3jqgDOOnUgWW6TQUnew0UXftUFPqzjrEYjoOKm0iIz/aAKCgkAfLflsuv sEPF9AHcWA0nqkllkVAlNMUqwlxwpJ4kVLNEHdSHozDl7c78oUvn42rWjEnqRM4mT5uS LqfjWWLeafMyyu00MWIWwKkJUqcyQ9/svA92rOIE64cHkMt1T/nVSK9/MhoBtaVClcPG 1Y1A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.11.67 with SMTP id o3mr5329237wjb.0.1377773813770; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.146.2 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:56:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:56:53 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _v3zZf0fjZhtZYfU9HwMxmzXpTo Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? From: Adrian Chadd To: Kimmo Paasiala Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: FreeBSD current , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:56:56 -0000 Hm! Are they dynamically loaded if you insert the cards? (Ie, has devd been taught about them as appropriate?) -adrian On 29 August 2013 02:15, Kimmo Paasiala wrote: > In reference to this FreeBSD forums post: > > http://forums.freebsd.org/showpost.php?p=231135&postcount=4 > > Would it be a good time to remove those from GENERIC since the > hardware they are for is becoming so seriously outdated? > > There's always an option to load those drivers as modules if needed. > > -Kimmo > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 14:58:20 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6A46B0; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:58:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from bigwig.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [IPv6:2001:470:1f11:75::1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7224F2DBD; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:58:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from jhbbsd.localnet (unknown [38.105.238.108]) by bigwig.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F736B9B3; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:58:19 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:54:02 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.2-CBSD-20110714-p28; KDE/4.5.5; amd64; ; ) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201308291054.02641.jhb@freebsd.org> X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (bigwig.baldwin.cx); Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Cc: Kimmo Paasiala , Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , Warner Losh , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 14:58:20 -0000 On Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:56:53 am Adrian Chadd wrote: > Hm! Are they dynamically loaded if you insert the cards? > > (Ie, has devd been taught about them as appropriate?) These are drivers for the bridges, not for cards you plug into the bridges. If you autoloaded them at all you would load them during boot when you saw an appropriate PCI device. Currently we don't autoload any PCI drivers, so I don't think that should be a blocker for taking these out of GENERIC. Warner is probably the best person to ask. -- John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 15:50:22 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4ADDE8 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:50:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f51.google.com (mail-oa0-f51.google.com [209.85.219.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E46252267 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:50:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id h1so794171oag.24 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:50:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=WufppyoDJ8zP1DWHkXsFqxaCpMqK9Zlbk5hkFpuDsJQ=; b=NV63x8pNipXp1n7tJI8NRdbz84ZLAWU1poYcietxVqcuebxx+5V5onM2BcJZNQRkXV UnrS2Rvy7ScmJhn33eI+BmSsqxCcwfA3XNgFRXXThJ3P68VGd8LP1sefgpNhikak9lOK hNzy6rQJnCWQEcbKYcOS6H0uR2Rwea+IzMhExkJkNB7/g3gDYp8RcUpsQ6prm3HE3Mns V4E+BnJfwpvCxcgvOzXikqbn3OHoavRURqYHQ2kpK462/HYU7eYSmgkx7anK3VMZnAlY p3x+7573NdDzVBR/swyCLE3I0qBbY9ZQ7/kwS+qcv1U72fyHjA1AptP3cD9MqFQX0KWd 5sOg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm6MpVyODD3bRxg1CCfOaCooeGmlP2APDDroKzoA/yJWXRWmhJyruIFvY+fhL/VkbLtqzak X-Received: by 10.182.48.194 with SMTP id o2mr2259927obn.90.1377791415343; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id r3sm33040857oep.2.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <201308291054.02641.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:50:11 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201308291054.02641.jhb@freebsd.org> To: John Baldwin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , Kimmo Paasiala , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, Warner Losh X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:50:22 -0000 On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:54 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:56:53 am Adrian Chadd wrote: >> Hm! Are they dynamically loaded if you insert the cards? >>=20 >> (Ie, has devd been taught about them as appropriate?) >=20 > These are drivers for the bridges, not for cards you plug into the = bridges. =20 > If you autoloaded them at all you would load them during boot when you = saw an=20 > appropriate PCI device. Currently we don't autoload any PCI drivers, = so I=20 > don't think that should be a blocker for taking these out of GENERIC. >=20 > Warner is probably the best person to ask. We don't autoload them. The bridge code is tiny and can easily be = removed if you want to create a custom kernel. There's still plenty of = laptops that would be crippled if these were removed. Other drivers that = are even more obsolete that are still in GENERIC: esp sym trm adv adw aic bt asr ciss iir ida de cas dc gem hme nfe nve pcn (although many VM env like this) rl fs sis tl tx vr wb xl cs ed ex ep fe sn xe an wi urio uipaq aue cue kue rue So asking why cbb and cardbus are still there seems a little silly to = me. The basic problem is that our PCI and USB infrastructure doesn't include = the basic information necessarily to properly look at a directory of .ko = files and know what to autoload when it finds an unmatched device. PC = Card could easily do this, but doesn't (I have some doodles from a few = years ago that would put this stuff into an elf section that could (a) = be unloaded after probe (optionally) and (b) be read by automatic tools = to load just what's needed). USB is a lot closer than PCI, which is why = Hans' scripts work well enough to create uber-ugly devd config files. Rather than shooting randomly, perhaps some investigation about this = topic would be in order. We've talked it to death, but nobody has had = the time to STFU and implement something reasonable. Warner= From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 15:53:00 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CAF8138 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:53:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03A5A22E9 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:52:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id er7so680039obc.3 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:52:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=bMxC8CwjEN6j179q/GnMvngnd3tZDL1HNqhw0gxmGQ4=; b=IEIbgnq3p0pcBxwMQhO4rNJNY16hohfPbkxW5Sqi3kg15+YRe8eWUX5wIGFwFUmwV6 MbgJ2zYN2eQjmVeEsbk+1+RubdMkzjwZgDAea+VCXDjYUFkozgY/Z2buk4GVAa6LC8Fn G0YFGTPOG4n2k2w0eeWutmJm5E80RQJ7WLlpyrKR9rTRuCWU1WAM0I45eWu+xTI4wruY AJ6TOVPzXw2do9Glo/DdQ481EDXwZ4SmTfNuJYWtSstdLqkm1/J/K5l3hPysxfShi67R uPTXkXaphxK96Gq3BnG6MKHos5h5O0qGfP+xXqlZPLB6zVOIQ3dEsycRci7pYfDQ3FwD lMcg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkH6OBx11aGy0x9FFN/GfH82jQeB1YLOQPiOtGoZne+Q0dKTJNz+0DKhlvefLWaxdVM/pqX X-Received: by 10.182.71.82 with SMTP id s18mr3081962obu.9.1377791579361; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id rl1sm33101341oeb.7.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Aug 2013 08:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:52:56 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <92E50FD0-1A1D-4CD2-AB73-11D1F189D12D@bsdimp.com> References: To: Kimmo Paasiala X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: FreeBSD current , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:53:00 -0000 On Aug 29, 2013, at 3:15 AM, Kimmo Paasiala wrote: > In reference to this FreeBSD forums post: >=20 > http://forums.freebsd.org/showpost.php?p=3D231135&postcount=3D4 >=20 > Would it be a good time to remove those from GENERIC since the > hardware they are for is becoming so seriously outdated? >=20 > There's always an option to load those drivers as modules if needed. No. It is not a good time to remove them. They aren't as out-dated as = you might think, and there's literally dozens of other devices in = GENERIC that have even less use today... Warner From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 16:01:34 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6A1BB0 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:01:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spawk@acm.poly.edu) Received: from acm.poly.edu (acm.poly.edu [64.147.113.26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0485823D5 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:01:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from acm.poly.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by acm.poly.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840AC1F13AA for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 38558 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2013 15:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.50.50.212?) (spawk@64.147.100.2) by acm.poly.edu with CAMELLIA256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 29 Aug 2013 15:56:05 -0000 Message-ID: <521F6F4A.2080107@acm.poly.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:56:58 -0400 From: Boris Kochergin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130828 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? References: <92E50FD0-1A1D-4CD2-AB73-11D1F189D12D@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <92E50FD0-1A1D-4CD2-AB73-11D1F189D12D@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD current , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:01:34 -0000 On 08/29/13 11:52, Warner Losh wrote: > On Aug 29, 2013, at 3:15 AM, Kimmo Paasiala wrote: > >> In reference to this FreeBSD forums post: >> >> http://forums.freebsd.org/showpost.php?p=231135&postcount=4 >> >> Would it be a good time to remove those from GENERIC since the >> hardware they are for is becoming so seriously outdated? >> >> There's always an option to load those drivers as modules if needed. > No. It is not a good time to remove them. They aren't as out-dated as you might think, and there's literally dozens of other devices in GENERIC that have even less use today... > > Warner > Just thought I'd be a statistic and speak up to say that I am happily using the PCMCIA drivers on multiple 9.x/i386 machines, and plan to continue doing so through 10.x. -Boris From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 16:14:27 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BCB535; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:14:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-x235.google.com (mail-qa0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CE0624EE; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:14:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id i13so539102qae.19 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:14:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=L755AofcUINNwdxYuM3P7OrUWkb8ecn/CWRKz+7P1eE=; b=OJ3CWTjDph/7o+XBsfMQcRKP+IGXAtQnAjUJVliKhbcKINrg7YfiHNDVqtxBHrv08e WGDSorj6bHKR7orVQFsDQj3KRebbZkEP4oklWBwN37DWar+gQfQmUF1vXTFqji5CTbki zdFS1tinuc+1aGlxmRDmhZO98aiQ0C7NwfDizeA5S8Qpy7IaX7wrdxV8tzZMtI57CzoQ doQFT3PTrNExvsgM/gQ5xLyIE5QYStkwLbpW9euYsghuVjWSoomWA+ghQd+m+U2pS02z O14yX+VrxVvAxk8JV2QsSN6ubDhULh7QLuXwmbPpKZBRNHRubZnRa+Xin8IffGhJ+8jw 9XbQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.127.179 with SMTP id nh19mr4916627qeb.1.1377792866287; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.128.70 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:14:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201308291054.02641.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 09:14:26 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2jwJQpWQp_0eUlmzVO7urAFul0o Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? From: Adrian Chadd To: Warner Losh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , Kimmo Paasiala , freebsd-current , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, Warner Losh X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:14:27 -0000 .. after tinkering in the USB world, i wonder what's wrong with this: * created a basic markup / description language to encapsulate what PCI/USB probing requires; * generated both config files _and_ .c / .h files for drivers to include; * have the kernel build process do .device_description -> .c/.h (for compiling) ; devd.conf (for runtime loading); an elf section if you'd like; and loader-mumble.conf (for loader autoloading.) -adrian From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 17:03:28 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2321F98 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:03:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B706B2888 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:03:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wo10so777842obc.27 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:03:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=SJDQgzFwJfs4GkD0feBRAHCot6kR8PbIW029am1uuZw=; b=jy6tnHUZayOnO5ElIukA6veXRR8X6iLD6avhyD9qgf0ops51lsUb2ncL9nOyysAMWN QXykKRbQRDrWLbY+7HwWo+7hlX+gJ55c+sld4m3jIlXJZryEoM5mBLTslLOUZOoNQs3H lPDIL2bjBjTMmm6+ewS8M/+oKeskd5TMD0DUhiCSU2j5jdnJCU+oog0pwaT9ET0lNjJ/ xGUvULsfRvE1wxKZk56idGgH2YqGlzchkAsjwzcNcE62FXzENVfIxz8fdJmWK6aO2dC7 U7XvuX/ff6fRjPB6del47UlzuGEL0i98YR/SrlJ2XaeIHM/SFza+aKn9ay+0oFzaYL7V ybnA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkqpDuY5LN6A/9TuvawFmpk54RMwOyyyKIWyeZEQzEXBW0P93sZZPX6wHZAB6oNE2HAaYLT X-Received: by 10.60.52.81 with SMTP id r17mr3360989oeo.3.1377795807801; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id uz16sm32335159obc.5.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:03:24 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <352C0CD1-909B-445A-A1F4-3942D3A3CE3B@bsdimp.com> References: <201308291054.02641.jhb@freebsd.org> To: Adrian Chadd X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , Kimmo Paasiala , freebsd-current , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, Warner Losh X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:03:29 -0000 On Aug 29, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > .. after tinkering in the USB world, i wonder what's wrong with this: >=20 > * created a basic markup / description language to encapsulate what = PCI/USB probing requires; > * generated both config files _and_ .c / .h files for drivers to = include; > * have the kernel build process do .device_description -> .c/.h (for = compiling) ; devd.conf (for runtime loading); an elf section if you'd = like; and loader-mumble.conf (for loader autoloading.) It is needlessly complex? You seriously don't need 1/10th that = complexity. We've talked about solutions in the past. I even have something that = will automatically do the heavy lifting for compliant drivers (or did = before it decayed). What's needed is for someone to step in and drive it = to completion. Like I said, this has been talked to death at least half a dozen times. Warner From owner-freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Aug 29 17:39:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C5C4C7; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:39:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mueller6721@twc.com) Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.122]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7ADD2AF6; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:39:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=fJG7LOme c=1 sm=0 a=68NkTaeYMVLl2m++3813FQ==:17 a=i4YerQ4AwY4A:10 a=HSsa_qBhwsUA:10 a=DvSzqBOGy98A:10 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=ORzfrLIX98MA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=hDxOVbXN1DwfdmFclnEA:9 a=jjUqNiGvsI0A:10 a=68NkTaeYMVLl2m++3813FQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 74.130.200.176 Received: from [74.130.200.176] ([74.130.200.176:44849] helo=localhost) by hrndva-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id C6/82-27973-3378F125; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:38:59 +0000 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:38:59 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Thomas Mueller" To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why are cardbus drivers cbb(4) and pccard(4) still included in GENERIC? Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 17:39:01 -0000 > In reference to this FreeBSD forums post: > http://forums.freebsd.org/showpost.php?p=231135&postcount=4 > Would it be a good time to remove those from GENERIC since the > hardware they are for is becoming so seriously outdated? > There's always an option to load those drivers as modules if needed. > -Kimmo These looked useless to me on a desktop computer, but proved necessary to retain just to be able to compile NDIS support into the kernel. This is for a USB wireless adapter by Hiro that uses Realtek RTL8191S chip. Other responses on this topic reveal that these cardbus drivers are needed for many other drivers too. Tom