From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 19 23:10:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FFA119; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30B00F93; Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:10:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1U7wJw-003NOT-Jy>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:09:56 +0100 Received: from e178020162.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.20.162] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1U7wJw-002uBQ-G1>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:09:56 +0100 Message-ID: <5124063D.2060604@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:09:49 +0100 From: "O. Hartmann" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130131 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Current FreeBSD , freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: PathScale EKO Path 5 not for FreeBSD anymore? X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigDF36890EC952228A8D9A2C83" X-Originating-IP: 85.178.20.162 X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:10:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigDF36890EC952228A8D9A2C83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A while ago - approximately three years from now, i was looking for a GPGPU capable solution for usage on FreeBSD and I stepped into the compilers from PathScale which are supposed to handle OpenACC (like OpenMP #pragma omp, but in this case #pragma openacc instead). Well, there was hope since PathScale obviously had a FreeBSD commercial solution. It was in BETA stage that time, I applied for getting a testing copy, but never got an answer, even having had contact to Christopher Bergstr=F6m, CTO at PathScale. Looking today at Phoronix, (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=3Darticle&item=3Dpathscale_ekopath= _5beta&num=3D1), I read this benchmarking and followed the links which say that PathScale opensourced their compiler suite a while ago (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=3Darticle&item=3Dpathscale_ekopath= 4_open&num=3D1) I was curious and looked at PathScales website where I found three years ago also FreeBSD mentioned as a supported platform, but see foryourself, what supported platforms today mentioned there: http://www.pathscale.com/ekopath-compiler-suite Well, at the end, this means there is simply no binary or package that could be installed easily for scientists interested in that compiler. I do not know whether there are motivations to produce a FreeBSD 10/9 compatible package from the newly emitted PathScale EKO Patch 5 Beta compiler sources, which are available at github: https://github.com/path64/compiler Well, the official website of PathScale doens't mention FreeBSD anymore and this must have a reason why they droped support or any intention to support that OS. From the perspective of a "user", I'm the lonely "idiot" within kilometres using FreeBSD for my day-to-day scientifice work and sacrifice myself not having GPGPU capabilities. Something is really going into the wrong direction here. I'm very interested in the reasoning why PathScale droped FreeBSD and I guess it would be nice to reveal the reasons. Am I blind or is this again another erosion process of an operating system usefull even for scientific purposes? Well, I'm aware that my posting triggers again a lot of emotional discussions (I guess), since it did in the past. I try to evaluate the situation from the perspective of a "user", not someone who needs to be a Os engineer to use an OS. It is a kind of deep running frustration to see how the next great compiler suite for scientific purpose is simply vanishing - as it did with the NAG compilers which were offered for freeBSD as well as other OSs at the end of 1990s. Now there is no offering anymore. Regards, Oliver --------------enigDF36890EC952228A8D9A2C83 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRJAZDAAoJEOgBcD7A/5N8AzAIAM3mS2GJqQqZIskvfKUh4MjB 4lIunyq7XcD/PvkrV/epTl36wEswPTWjTgEUCmStbaHd6EvfJCNkTuGYp2/uP+u1 QMOQBBmhOtIeFMNrW9oxi0nGV/jbN5bSXzV1Tki2/0DIUnoCzBWtATLsBiJZ58Su mAenGSclKXjBFJAPEZ9akX4k4GMpChulQ551X6ZFHsN79f4HFzJpm9sS8lcFp51d frgbEUNbG789RSyTf383J3zo85hCJlzPK8zGERZBRv+ylIYbym30WVz48J2FN+MJ q3aafx+1llpA5OZhVxNFFatgtN0q9cD4jCxG36277Egbetb3/7ASt41sin4KQjI= =UC73 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigDF36890EC952228A8D9A2C83-- From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 20 11:18:49 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A31C91A; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de) Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de [130.133.4.66]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425CA871; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:18:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1U87hH-001P7Z-Pt>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:18:47 +0100 Received: from e178025207.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.178.25.207] helo=thor.walstatt.dyndns.org) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.69) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1U87hH-003XTV-Kw>; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:18:47 +0100 Message-ID: <5124B115.70707@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:18:45 +0100 From: "O. Hartmann" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130131 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mexas@bristol.ac.uk Subject: Re: PathScale EKO Path 5 not for FreeBSD anymore? References: <201302200909.r1K99lx0029375@mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <201302200909.r1K99lx0029375@mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigBB5DB0F6429156B22412AB2A" X-Originating-IP: 85.178.25.207 Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 11:18:49 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigBB5DB0F6429156B22412AB2A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am 02/20/13 10:09, schrieb Anton Shterenlikht: > Oliver >=20 > I try to use FreeBSD for day-to-day numerical > work, as far as possible. I have to complement > it with linux cluster systems, largely due to > a range of compilers available there. >=20 > Anyway, keep me posted if you get anywhere with this. >=20 > Anton Hello Anton. The good German wine was talking yesterday, I guess. On PathScales EKOPath 4 website, FreeBSD and OpenSOLARIS are still mentioned and its HMPP, not OpenACC, that is used inline code. I have first to apologize for the depressive mood I spread around. It is EKOPath 5 BETA (webpage) that doesn't mention FreeBSD as supported platform - as one can easily see and watch at the intro page right bottom corner. The "community" of FreeBSD systems is decreasing from year to year and as David Chisnall reported in a reply on my posting, it seems to be a "mindshare" thing. Too many people are talking about "business" - business isn't the motivator, science is and this may be a special view of my country. BSD was developed at Berkeley in a very scientific manner and therefore it is a very strong "logical" system - apart from the crap Lnux started with. I think it is unwise to talk about philosphy at this moment. The fact is, that I'm the only one in my department that is using FreeBSD on two remaining servers (one is a small storage server) and my personal lab workstation - my private systems are all FreeBSD, but that is not the matter here. The equipment I bought when we had to spend money on the project's funding is quite "impressive" for a under the desk workstation - I guess. We also had the chance to purchase a Dell Precision 7500 workstation with a TESLA 2075 board and two 6-core Westmere CPUs at 2,6 GHz with 96 GB RAM - for modelling and rendering purposes (sometimes our scientific work in the planetology field requires to do PR for funding, so we render also ...). Having FreeBSD in the first place on that box everything worked quite well, since the drivers were applicable to the provided hardware, even the TESLA card was accepted by the nVidia BLOB. But that's it. We swapped to Suse Linux since the developer working on that system required OpenCL thriving the GPU for large DTM rendering. Our cluster system (Rocks) is pure Linux. We have a lot of Dell stuff around here, equipted with expensive iDRAC modules. They're supposed to get accessed via JAVA. From FreeBSD/Firefox, I can not start the console due to a JAVA error. Dell rejects support, since FreeBSD isn't supported. Yes, and this is the meaning of platform indepenedency ... It is also a political thing. Another thing, that seems unlogical is the MIT/BSD/CDDL versus GPLv3 licensing issue. FreeBSD, as the other *BSDs, are supposed to have the most "advanced" licensing model in terms of academic freedom and even for companies benefit from such a free licensing model. GPLv3 is curcified as the evil license and even companies which have an interest protecting their code should look at the BSD systems - but the fact is: Linux all over the place. What is wrong with this picture? The opinion shared within THIS community or a real blindness? Funding companies or professional developers for developing KMS, GEM and other stuff is one thing. Why is there no effort to fund students working on their Diploma Thesis or Dissertation with regards to develop methods, code or functionality to FreeBSD in a "wide and open manner", so that it can be used platform independend? It is just an idea and it is a question that the FreeBSD Foundation has to answer and to decide on.= The other very bad thing is the information I have to gather. Somehow I feel lost when looking for software for my work, even it is very popular. Gathering informations from many places - as it is with "WHICH PROFESSIONAL COMPILER WORKS ON FREEBSD WITH PROFESSIONAL HIGH PERFORMANCE MATH LIBS" is horrible and time consuming. try it on Google with the tag "Linux" makes you happy within seconds. And back to our case. For instance, meshalb is a very powerful tool used by many people working with point cloud data. Since more than half a year that port is broken on FreeBSD and that drove to scientists away from my FreeBSD installation to Linux - where is works perfectly - magically. Well, we have now devel/freeocl in the ports to provide a bit OpenCL stuff on FreeBSD - but on the CPU, not the GPU. My next attempt is to provide a port of devel/pocl, which isn't fit for FreeBSD in version 0.7 as there is a typo regarding amd64 and the x86_64 terminology, but those guys from Finnlandia are very, very nice and also PRO(!) freeBSd, so they told me that there is alsready a patch in the GIT. I haven't had the time to look at this since I'm consumed due to writing my thesis at the moment, but THERE IS STUFF of interest, but if it is a lonely-hunter-work only and the interest of the community is so low on such stuff even of the professional people hired to code for FreeBSD, then ... well, I lack in the necessary words. I'm too young to talk with the old guys from the great time of X11 (Leffler) or BSD (McKusick) and all the pioneer work done in that time, but the great spirit seems to be lost due to "companies" and this golden-valve-people attitude of money, money, money. Sorry about the last sentence, as i said, philosphie in a depressive mood can be devastating. Well ... regards, Oliver --------------enigBB5DB0F6429156B22412AB2A Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRJLEXAAoJEOgBcD7A/5N8mjEH/ReS2FRdFubGquV/IM/e7DYp bm+7QLok4+C/hqHzlkRauiTzbnIQo7QtuhBSBAwqqSqqIYOt/xK8G5q1AdzvdrGH 4EqZhCiolRTYtZYxsiDepq8lsDjodpjIVaH2F/tKv/xIBO6eZgA8g34VblWtRu9V Hjqw1bqySak8C8ES4uWKDnOMQXhGvc7xl0WIeAZPFVC5iAUsPNrn0F+qsIfrJJvm 3UKzUH5n48RJFvSzyrHLFBXwaJqpfzQGAFwcdiYBU5FH73JQvUEf+4PurKSu1V5M 3eJ4TgpFjFtE7JEWb3QlZfBepnW9RS50NjSh9qPONPjayDddRNWa9okSIhuHD2M= =Z9jA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigBB5DB0F6429156B22412AB2A-- From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Feb 20 09:10:12 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E4CCCC0; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:10:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mexas@bristol.ac.uk) Received: from dirj.bris.ac.uk (dirj.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.78]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044D3DB5; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:10:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from irix.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.10.39] helo=ncs.bris.ac.uk) by dirj.bris.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U85gS-00003U-C9; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:10:09 +0000 Received: from mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk ([137.222.187.241]) by ncs.bris.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1U85gS-0006Zd-3e; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:09:48 +0000 Received: from mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r1K99lxY029376; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:09:47 GMT (envelope-from mexas@mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk) Received: (from mexas@localhost) by mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk (8.14.6/8.14.6/Submit) id r1K99lx0029375; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:09:47 GMT (envelope-from mexas) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:09:47 GMT From: Anton Shterenlikht Message-Id: <201302200909.r1K99lx0029375@mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk> To: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, ohartman@zedat.fu-berlin.de Subject: Re: PathScale EKO Path 5 not for FreeBSD anymore? In-Reply-To: <5124063D.2060604@zedat.fu-berlin.de> X-Spam-Score: -3.7 X-Spam-Level: --- X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:32:12 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: mexas@bristol.ac.uk List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 09:10:12 -0000 Oliver I try to use FreeBSD for day-to-day numerical work, as far as possible. I have to complement it with linux cluster systems, largely due to a range of compilers available there. Anyway, keep me posted if you get anywhere with this. Anton From owner-freebsd-performance@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 21 00:04:50 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE4CD76; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:04:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@feld.me) Received: from feld.me (unknown [IPv6:2607:f4e0:100:300::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF92692; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:04:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=feld.me; s=blargle; h=In-Reply-To:Message-Id:From:Mime-Version:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:Content-Type; bh=UyDlJ+yO8higm5N82KRkByTiZs7a5Mb8xgikk2/e/q8=; b=nNwCEanwwgcpjHZj/itmhIy+BOt3ErMAFREetiV63uWJbumuqbrNoXPXUvBqUqItn05RCPeQGMjGA/IagjqhNAo7Ytj/F+hveeOcVJJ6NHSPT0d4VEsftUpQDsjhDHi2; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mwi1.coffeenet.org) by feld.me with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1U8JeU-0000qf-Cq; Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:04:42 -0600 Received: from feld@feld.me by mwi1.coffeenet.org (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1361405076-61085-51256/5/3; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:04:36 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes To: mexas@bristol.ac.uk, "O. Hartmann" Subject: Re: PathScale EKO Path 5 not for FreeBSD anymore? References: <201302200909.r1K99lx0029375@mech-cluster241.men.bris.ac.uk> <5124B115.70707@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:04:36 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Mark Felder Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5124B115.70707@zedat.fu-berlin.de> User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.13 (FreeBSD) Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:04:50 -0000 I've been talking to others and it seems that several of us are convinced that BSD is back on the uptake, so I wouldn't be so quick to mark its demise. :-)