From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 26 16:51:25 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF49775E for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 16:51:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-pb0-x230.google.com (mail-pb0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F24C262 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 16:51:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pb0-f48.google.com with SMTP id md12so5931878pbc.7 for ; Sun, 26 May 2013 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=0+wdWTQKFr7cb3YuoCZ7XmbNyOvruBWRkRsdzsPVOzE=; b=Akm9QTN3xQKv2fOgm89j93kQkP72tRXHNzmEXNzQxukdoS/GOf6np06iKt1NsVB/D7 8M5oWZjNfXu0wjwsSYofvIxKpWOSVc5iNJ7IEkgX4r7/OZmy8aACuhgPkBfmZ3pu+EWy 4gy4RuZNiu3M01owtukUNMR1gwb2Ndnx5YHgY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=0+wdWTQKFr7cb3YuoCZ7XmbNyOvruBWRkRsdzsPVOzE=; b=pR85nLr36DTY9xOyTUurk0FmEdxcsqN6XuPJHn/hA6l07I6MSfbxKwbzKD6TaHdoO1 0AejMl15z9hMeCTdlAxan4vzrqeIsCFuBVlcCAZrCkgZn/GQX5OdxCpWm83J4teeyD3/ Ua3uxXakO/GDIAAP6f3Uh26gnHfXQAY+3UDHv/yD6x7lcOy/GaNsYxkEYaDvDzY6egAL A5aRWgiVwCyU5FLkM8JvtLqHOIoUsYFqQtDJUfbfWsOgyJfGqj4QksYhI1NaGxiK9L4b C00KDZjS2IcSWPCvv25nBhyfEBs/caogrlkSTywn2rCcb2w3YSLVYmPB9guhhO2jRahy z3rg== X-Received: by 10.66.118.39 with SMTP id kj7mr21357650pab.90.1369587084266; Sun, 26 May 2013 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.70.84.100 with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2013 09:50:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Eitan Adler Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 18:50:54 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: graph of include files To: toolchain@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk9OAQw5TnkQdEzyyICn2+DlXafQCh0Be/2G4c5OdcTwA4oZIy65i5RonBLCXZsdPurNahb X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 16:51:25 -0000 Some people here may be interested in this: http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/headers/ Example: http://people.freebsd.org/~eadler/files/headers/lib/libc/locale/xlocale_private.h.png This is a graph of which include files include which other files. -- Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 27 16:44:43 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680A991B for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 16:44:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nm15-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm15-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.145]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 362CDDE6 for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 16:44:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.138.90.54] by nm15.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 16:41:36 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.62] by tm7.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 16:41:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 16:41:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 138852.57184.bm@smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 8alcDPsVM1kdWbBua3_zcDGe4M1X.sUZdfMtHuepiuXlkgD uwu0Y1aaG3_hAhvVxsmCJBrEb_IOCR9WH6aHh.JNkqRBkg8hA6x2NZ2RhsDV 1nTi3y7oLLLqyCI1ovPgUcHJUbNWb3GBMwZ_lLySYTvOboGlUCrIpy_NfHFC X8OHBD_jgbLTowNv1V6QMgCH3.HRTIipw2jpGjAk0PtIw8AhJbjEJFPLpIdj LFpy39WWLWGGwXzXKsCzvRHfcj.qk_fmt3roFa0arJUj8L6S74uUt.wdR769 5dlfYnchrC7LLtP8W3BMfbEvt0IB.i6pVTlZ3UBHyioO9IXBROhz6pyP7Oy8 _3jJQjCPVHQVii3Pkh.bZoAFaksX3OswW26qSjD1OMnNmNYxdtTqSox0GJkk .5Jmhsw4WZvoAv5rV536IwainyF3Ua_o7BkjDdJxr56hmLC5MG2xOlHF1QNi .vqFdc9jIhmY.FflhHDpxZobrgVN5qzd_dAlNGbBxWs81vRyMCBOaj6riDfU MwMjAMIdwgffGhenAQH83iaom5iqOMG5UIkyYeyBOIqFV4R44Pl4rxFP7w47 XfGpo.hZVrA-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: xcjD0guswBAZaPPIbxpWwLcp9Unf X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.0.102] (pfg@190.157.126.109 with ) by smtp213.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2013 09:41:35 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 11:41:33 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130407 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org, amd64@FreeBSD.org Subject: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:44:43 -0000 Hello; Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's barcelona chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that were left when similar intel support was brought in. Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke building some C++ ports even when it was not being used. jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been gathering rust here: http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will work since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't have the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. regards, Pedro. From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 27 19:12:49 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E539C3; Mon, 27 May 2013 19:12:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@felyko.com) Received: from felyko.com (felyko.com [IPv6:2607:f2f8:a528::3:1337:ca7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2DB3776; Mon, 27 May 2013 19:12:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:c2:8d3b:6227:5cf7:eac7] (unknown [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:c2:8d3b:6227:5cf7:eac7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by felyko.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 973E93983B; Mon, 27 May 2013 12:12:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=felyko.com; s=mail; t=1369681965; bh=5BfB/UtPUI0m2Phfa38e8U69ozWu7w/ppqC2ak0Vh0M=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=cT2zr/Dhm9BRZ0ByIScyc2+LxcbS6OS2P+iOtoQeC7NrrIzFAExZGMZofLgH3yO+u oqxrGyLvddxEdwlfp0X4u2Z8/HmfFXTHogwFMmLNeFInOVBHjdgrFfMI6w/fNEnfWv CBZucEkhFesftEcy8/wxdkUwi9pkrhMh7wxu61u4= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona From: Rui Paulo In-Reply-To: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:12:44 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:12:49 -0000 On 27 May 2013, at 09:41, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > Hello; >=20 > Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's barcelona > chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that were = left > when similar intel support was brought in. >=20 > Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke = building > some C++ ports even when it was not being used. >=20 > jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been > gathering rust here: >=20 > http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff >=20 > The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will = work > since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. >=20 > I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't have > the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. I have to question the general direction of this work. We switched to = Clang as the default compiler for i386/amd64 some months ago and now = you're working on improving our base GCC especially for amd64? I don't = really understand how useful this is. It doesn't strike me as a good = idea to see people working on things that will eventually be replaced / = removed. Regards, -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 27 19:38:10 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ACB5DD8; Mon, 27 May 2013 19:38:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (tensor.andric.com [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:1:2d0:b7ff:fea0:8c26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00917841; Mon, 27 May 2013 19:38:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7::ddfd:5c8d:86c3:f815] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:ddfd:5c8d:86c3:f815]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50A075C44; Mon, 27 May 2013 21:38:03 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona From: Dimitry Andric In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:38:01 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4BD4D414-8281-4127-A520-565CF28FF5E5@FreeBSD.org> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> To: Rui Paulo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:38:10 -0000 On May 27, 2013, at 21:12, Rui Paulo wrote: > On 27 May 2013, at 09:41, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >> Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's barcelona >> chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that = were left >> when similar intel support was brought in. >>=20 >> Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke = building >> some C++ ports even when it was not being used. >>=20 >> jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been >> gathering rust here: >>=20 >> http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff >>=20 >> The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will = work >> since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. >>=20 >> I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't have >> the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. >=20 > I have to question the general direction of this work. We switched to = Clang as the default compiler for i386/amd64 some months ago and now = you're working on improving our base GCC especially for amd64? I don't = really understand how useful this is. It doesn't strike me as a good = idea to see people working on things that will eventually be replaced / = removed. It is probably a better use of time to work on getting the tree to build with an out-of-tree gcc 4.7 or 4.8 instead. Why spend more effort on a completely dead branch of gcc? Newer gcc's have better code generation, support for more modern CPUs, and better diagnostics (including even those controversial carets ;-). That said, if it is a particular itch somebody wants to scratch, I see no reason not to, as long as it doesn't break anything else... -Dimitry From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 27 19:51:04 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389664CA for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 19:51:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nm47-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm47-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.143]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCAA18ED for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 19:51:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.212.153] by nm47.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 19:49:01 -0000 Received: from [98.139.211.193] by tm10.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 19:49:01 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 19:49:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 721313.29520.bm@smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: m42velcVM1mVPQyBMFNm0gtioVKm57OqmpY5WsXGBkPn4Iv _zvx4VJ70cXoWxZ7A8d7eYRPIDRkmL9qPEGqw6X_8I8RhcopvBOmmUNjjDuV FNeELvm05cQmm3mriKwTlJflVS_JZa2eMIL0DGbUqCKNGdQWgSFyZRhuO4E5 6s0Kq1fx1PHoLyZqiIHnvC0zG2d4znxSXrMIrBenw7XOjEGe5uOJmFQ_GMg3 sLc35xmowiEBYeXW_ow5iDQcUGgf1fcT6fkcRP6aF9QCX_earQcsBE94.eCq V_3YqL0_d7s1vgU4O_l6S3ZMHZwXRjWuwYVWAZlteDX2NCNx9IO_GPPjCvyE yXWsfe2TeUwLJXJtJqyDMROyY_HAoNMxKjFT863gKHXB6P_qvyX1n8Lm4wXy TxLcWWnbJ6KjjEKB32PiVS0ujHJzfx86w2kk4YcTeFLnQok5J8IUn9kYve06 6mopq6EWQgHYrg7doyBMreEvOLQ-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: xcjD0guswBAZaPPIbxpWwLcp9Unf X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.0.102] (pfg@190.157.126.109 with ) by smtp202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2013 12:49:01 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 14:48:59 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130407 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rui Paulo Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 19:51:04 -0000 On 27.05.2013 14:12, Rui Paulo wrote: > On 27 May 2013, at 09:41, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > >> Hello; >> >> Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's barcelona >> chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that were left >> when similar intel support was brought in. >> >> Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke building >> some C++ ports even when it was not being used. >> >> jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been >> gathering rust here: >> >> http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff >> >> The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will work >> since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. >> >> I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't have >> the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. > > I have to question the general direction of this work. We switched to Clang as the default compiler for i386/amd64 some months ago and now you're working on improving our base GCC especially for amd64? I don't really understand how useful this is. It doesn't strike me as a good idea to see people working on things that will eventually be replaced / removed. I have absolutely no intention to give gcc a second air: it's dead and I am anxious to see it axed from -current (soon?). This said, there are still many FreeBSD users trapped with the base gcc for at least as long as 9.x is alive. If you look at the ChangeLog.gcc43 in the above patch, you will notice I am just completing some code that was incompletely merged in previous revisions. The basic work was done almost a year ago, and I have no hurry to merge it but given that the effort was done already it would seem a pity to just throw it away. Of course I may be completely wrong here. Pedro. From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 27 20:09:31 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E73319B for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 20:09:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nm42-vm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm42-vm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.191]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2259B7 for ; Mon, 27 May 2013 20:09:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.212.144] by nm42.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 20:07:18 -0000 Received: from [98.139.213.4] by tm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 20:07:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2013 20:07:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 146581.37948.bm@smtp104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: Fm_DDPcVM1kvIasnFd3Bc0rbV8ZxZ2c_DoHaKPIqEcKLtWE EJfUakiOKHNCoqX9LYRCSEs7W3KSiR5afZI4GrlmZxxKBKUymmDzn0UNTSvT kA7_DfMu1ulQX.hQraG8Jn7HNLLpawhrybBUIuuSC2GmdT1aRSJwOCMQYQid xm.ntqTsVcqnrfVloY5.ps6mAyuFQ4gPiFDtDWjY.mYhExyQycrQAdrh1NiK Vp0gMCvGG.8kIFIMUxCXLkE4CV.jgacBnC_R.5HX788Z3FBuT6le8rR4fQOm a.F3I3Dai9CY5oua.Rl9JuyD4tHuICZk9a4nIjL3rVHb7JG7zy37mbGzg7Pk fbx_q4sPfAGPPCqwQDcaq3XrZuuS2ZD1mj8Qdoiao9AO.VvFy11_oyCsHdf9 qHXQ4WMPiThF9b0Zul20IYIwiwP6rTf86QmIZsqtIrYZQEOXzqKrWmJJ_H51 NjPqD4EpXsN3qU5Q- X-Yahoo-SMTP: xcjD0guswBAZaPPIbxpWwLcp9Unf X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.0.102] (pfg@190.157.126.109 with ) by smtp104.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2013 13:07:18 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <51A3BCF4.1010008@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 15:07:16 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130407 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <4BD4D414-8281-4127-A520-565CF28FF5E5@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4BD4D414-8281-4127-A520-565CF28FF5E5@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 20:09:31 -0000 On 27.05.2013 14:38, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On May 27, 2013, at 21:12, Rui Paulo wrote: >> On 27 May 2013, at 09:41, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >>> Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's barcelona >>> chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that were left >>> when similar intel support was brought in. >>> >>> Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke building >>> some C++ ports even when it was not being used. >>> >>> jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been >>> gathering rust here: >>> >>> http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff >>> >>> The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will work >>> since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. >>> >>> I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't have >>> the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. >> I have to question the general direction of this work. We switched to Clang as the default compiler for i386/amd64 some months ago and now you're working on improving our base GCC especially for amd64? I don't really understand how useful this is. It doesn't strike me as a good idea to see people working on things that will eventually be replaced / removed. > It is probably a better use of time to work on getting the tree to build > with an out-of-tree gcc 4.7 or 4.8 instead. Why spend more effort on a > completely dead branch of gcc? Newer gcc's have better code generation, > support for more modern CPUs, and better diagnostics (including even > those controversial carets ;-). FWIW, upstream gcc has a bug that affects ctfmerge and they have been very slow to fix it. I submitted a bug report and a workaround patch for ctfmerge to the Illumos guys but they have been very slow to review it as well. I do agree having out-of-tree compilers is important though; and much preferable than carrying two compilers ;). Pedro. From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 17:41:03 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50486DEA for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f50.google.com (mail-oa0-f50.google.com [209.85.219.50]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F2FAB9 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id l20so10161185oag.23 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=j5iWK9Qo7/92eE70KTgobPFv2CUHGWxuulRuLADs8N4=; b=b/RJvx9UPnbt/2lDdm1DRzuvmXOmMpQBUEMJSEdsvSk4VwLyz+YrKy2s0vnmuQgdlC K6yvZ9sAI1f9tM9vzjuFLb2eNmrEOh5Eki5jKZWxlPJ5pHmnqO08n42NyXsP8Q8ALX1D UZsp779g56N04kJKHwQTagEHNYSuBX7+pXggPHgzKf1sGzRLok1RtArYgPi2XraHcDDO uMKFyz1cT8BirG28oE4o1GyjB0B6dv6up7lpUSKPY/DA8DWSyYb4a8H1xSAOmESR9a7T LlmWNmsBM4Mynaz/vmGprj76CYWSryITWfm1/1OqZKqzANhdN2nuebUkIqSVGxnpU8ey TTrQ== X-Received: by 10.60.142.67 with SMTP id ru3mr21810638oeb.44.1369762862366; Tue, 28 May 2013 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hv3sm35667287obb.7.2013.05.28.10.41.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 May 2013 10:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 11:40:59 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmWuntDV8zXNp9P4xTLl/rv+mqTPt6bdiA0skdRZlmUqzGnTSZ7GRJh5zMreH6L9KXK97rG Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:03 -0000 On May 27, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > On 27.05.2013 14:12, Rui Paulo wrote: >> On 27 May 2013, at 09:41, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >>=20 >>> Hello; >>>=20 >>> Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's = barcelona >>> chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that = were left >>> when similar intel support was brought in. >>>=20 >>> Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke = building >>> some C++ ports even when it was not being used. >>>=20 >>> jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been >>> gathering rust here: >>>=20 >>> http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff >>>=20 >>> The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will = work >>> since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. >>>=20 >>> I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't have >>> the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. >>=20 >> I have to question the general direction of this work. We switched to = Clang as the default compiler for i386/amd64 some months ago and now = you're working on improving our base GCC especially for amd64? I don't = really understand how useful this is. It doesn't strike me as a good = idea to see people working on things that will eventually be replaced / = removed. >=20 > I have absolutely no intention to give gcc a second air: it's dead > and I am anxious to see it axed from -current (soon?). That's not going to happen soon. While it works OK for amd64, there's = still many bugs in its ARM support and even more in its MIPS support. = There's 0 chance it will be gone in 10... > This said, > there are still many FreeBSD users trapped with the base gcc for > at least as long as 9.x is alive. >=20 > If you look at the ChangeLog.gcc43 in the above patch, you will > notice I am just completing some code that was incompletely > merged in previous revisions. >=20 > The basic work was done almost a year ago, and I have no hurry > to merge it but given that the effort was done already it would > seem a pity to just throw it away. >=20 > Of course I may be completely wrong here. I see some value in adding this stuff. While we have made clang the = default, it still isn't fully vetted by surviving a release with it = enabled. the fallback plan will continue to be gcc. While it would ALSO be good to cleanup the tree so it can compile = cleanly with 4.7 or 4.8, this effort won't stand in the way of that. = Excluding it seems more like a political or emotional one than a = practical one. Warner From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 17:41:50 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45DEEF30 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-oa0-f51.google.com (mail-oa0-f51.google.com [209.85.219.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 123C9AC5 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f4so10337603oah.38 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=DLt2ZZDq/oR3efeBTGzm3kNmpkMd4lfy4N2N+D5uBxE=; b=Qf0YhG6sY5iGSFA9/9trUTV3+qyiAt3wWUCf3h740IuXMAfN2MugBHObd5PSd896Ac swjgW0qvAYanPi38U92QBmwdlZKNgAclvELlXRCassVuJi9vzSe8aZ+eeC/GV5rICIGG GnwNRoB1WiDAnyD3KQrh8iu8Rn4FoC9gzCZ3NZlXLdaJHSgO6zdcBG0aB2ZzTEz1OrA7 KFssXWjcM5N/FqmEfznLZ1BnitFYKDs4+mR/lKE/vxrsT2g+Q8W5zIWuYPgHvizHANfN drNdIoGrTyh8R7nvqTtt3TSKhXjBw4bFiEbgKbZ6EldbadrBAmueblScTUw8I5uZTDVQ 7fWA== X-Received: by 10.182.108.194 with SMTP id hm2mr1652692obb.71.1369762909545; Tue, 28 May 2013 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hv3sm35667287obb.7.2013.05.28.10.41.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 May 2013 10:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <51A3BCF4.1010008@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 11:41:47 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <4BD4D414-8281-4127-A520-565CF28FF5E5@FreeBSD.org> <51A3BCF4.1010008@FreeBSD.org> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkn6APh/h/511c7uiXwjOhU1ZRSvXCjbU5OF/tXwrIFXAnXxynu7fSQKJnCXiYgZXqFuluw Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 17:41:50 -0000 On May 27, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > On 27.05.2013 14:38, Dimitry Andric wrote: >> On May 27, 2013, at 21:12, Rui Paulo wrote: >>> On 27 May 2013, at 09:41, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >>>> Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's = barcelona >>>> chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that = were left >>>> when similar intel support was brought in. >>>>=20 >>>> Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke = building >>>> some C++ ports even when it was not being used. >>>>=20 >>>> jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been >>>> gathering rust here: >>>>=20 >>>> http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff >>>>=20 >>>> The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will = work >>>> since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. >>>>=20 >>>> I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't = have >>>> the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. >>> I have to question the general direction of this work. We switched = to Clang as the default compiler for i386/amd64 some months ago and now = you're working on improving our base GCC especially for amd64? I don't = really understand how useful this is. It doesn't strike me as a good = idea to see people working on things that will eventually be replaced / = removed. >> It is probably a better use of time to work on getting the tree to = build >> with an out-of-tree gcc 4.7 or 4.8 instead. Why spend more effort on = a >> completely dead branch of gcc? Newer gcc's have better code = generation, >> support for more modern CPUs, and better diagnostics (including even >> those controversial carets ;-). >=20 > FWIW, upstream gcc has a bug that affects ctfmerge and they have > been very slow to fix it. I submitted a bug report and a workaround > patch for ctfmerge to the Illumos guys but they have been very slow > to review it as well. >=20 > I do agree having out-of-tree compilers is important though; and > much preferable than carrying two compilers ;). Is this patch in the ports version of gcc at least? Warner From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 18:08:11 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C1BA97 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:08:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nm43-vm10.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm43-vm10.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.171]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CB2C2F for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:08:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.139.212.144] by nm43.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2013 18:05:25 -0000 Received: from [98.139.213.14] by tm1.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2013 18:05:25 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp114.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2013 18:05:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 448839.9447.bm@smtp114.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: tyhU2sIVM1lymsgfTK1RenZUlDw0oSI3Glh82xNHxPtbQVn 7gzpjYD_jIRNiQYFmvDMxDr8YRh3L1K0yO4sPdisZCNDzysS4TdYh7.impUs GTLC25yZbi51OmwO6tQKbDzwcereQilk4fRZrZXhwbMOxFPKgs6DVrG89pT8 rJV0fc7GiHWghHIbrX6CuhymFYvhF9ec1mbTqFcNGiZPw99g5wbBVAz6HyGZ P1NRTaQIyyydwu5kM_Wi.6CH7DdJ9rfZnCb031__Eup.km54wE1dq8j5ryAh mCp5bs5JxJnQlrsfI1FBIad.wxy0OzOQEeY9ntAZ..tWzVw3LoPNwoq0BsM_ TD4WAwzC_rWGWVTGp9ZQZc4CK.i1AzFjMq8weafdmki4cLxVU4xvVgv9W3cX zmujh7KmqWenITXE5bIBADU6DA_FgHadJmVOnbCx4lHTdwxnuROrTAaIP1aP HBDU- X-Yahoo-SMTP: xcjD0guswBAZaPPIbxpWwLcp9Unf X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.0.102] (pfg@190.157.126.109 with ) by smtp114.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2013 11:05:25 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <51A4F1E3.6040605@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:05:23 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130407 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <4BD4D414-8281-4127-A520-565CF28FF5E5@FreeBSD.org> <51A3BCF4.1010008@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:08:11 -0000 On 28.05.2013 12:41, Warner Losh wrote: > On May 27, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > >> On 27.05.2013 14:38, Dimitry Andric wrote: >>> On May 27, 2013, at 21:12, Rui Paulo wrote: >>>> On 27 May 2013, at 09:41, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >>>>> Almost a year ago I tried to bring in the support for AMD's barcelona >>>>> chipset into our gcc. This actually filled a lot of holes in that were left >>>>> when similar intel support was brought in. >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately I had to revert rapidly such support as it broke building >>>>> some C++ ports even when it was not being used. >>>>> >>>>> jkim@ did some cleanup of the support and the patch has been >>>>> gathering rust here: >>>>> >>>>> http://people.freebsd.org/~jkim/reworked-r236962-3.diff >>>>> >>>>> The patch still applies cleanly and there is a good chance it will work >>>>> since there have been other fixes merged since the last time. >>>>> >>>>> I did some basic testing and so far it works for me but I don't have >>>>> the specific chipset. Additional testing would be welcome. >>>> I have to question the general direction of this work. We switched to Clang as the default compiler for i386/amd64 some months ago and now you're working on improving our base GCC especially for amd64? I don't really understand how useful this is. It doesn't strike me as a good idea to see people working on things that will eventually be replaced / removed. >>> It is probably a better use of time to work on getting the tree to build >>> with an out-of-tree gcc 4.7 or 4.8 instead. Why spend more effort on a >>> completely dead branch of gcc? Newer gcc's have better code generation, >>> support for more modern CPUs, and better diagnostics (including even >>> those controversial carets ;-). >> FWIW, upstream gcc has a bug that affects ctfmerge and they have >> been very slow to fix it. I submitted a bug report and a workaround >> patch for ctfmerge to the Illumos guys but they have been very slow >> to review it as well. >> >> I do agree having out-of-tree compilers is important though; and >> much preferable than carrying two compilers ;). > Is this patch in the ports version of gcc at least? The patch comes from the (now obsolete) gcc43 branch that was still under GPLv2. As part of the natural {e|in}volution of gcc it lives in some form in the later gcc versions. I recall a superset of that patch was handpicked by SUSE for their releases but it still requires more testing. I will be running the patch for a week or so here: building kernel, ports, etc and then we will see. Regards, Pedro. > Warner > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-toolchain > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-toolchain-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 18:10:49 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684C7B04; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:10:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B09CCC5; Tue, 28 May 2013 18:10:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cpc27-cmbg15-2-0-cust235.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com [86.27.188.236]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r4SIASrA043367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 28 May 2013 18:10:29 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 19:10:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348@FreeBSD.org> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:10:49 -0000 On 28 May 2013, at 18:40, Warner Losh wrote: > That's not going to happen soon. While it works OK for amd64, there's = still many bugs in its ARM support and even more in its MIPS support. = There's 0 chance it will be gone in 10... I disagree. There is a significant chance that gcc in base will be gone = for all Tier 1 platforms in 10.0. There are still some reasons to want = gcc installed, but there are no compelling reasons to want an ancient = version of gcc installed on x86[-64] or ARM. For people who need gcc, = the ports collection provides a selection of recent versions. David From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 19:55:00 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA7DA918; Tue, 28 May 2013 19:55:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E4C234; Tue, 28 May 2013 19:55:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost.apl.washington.edu [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r4SJsv6Q052304; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.6/8.14.6/Submit) id r4SJsv20052303; Tue, 28 May 2013 12:54:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 12:54:57 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: David Chisnall Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Message-ID: <20130528195457.GA52250@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 19:55:00 -0000 On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 07:10:23PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote: > On 28 May 2013, at 18:40, Warner Losh wrote: > > > That's not going to happen soon. While it works OK for amd64, there's still many bugs in its ARM support and even more in its MIPS support. There's 0 chance it will be gone in 10... > > I disagree. There is a significant chance that gcc in base > will be gone for all Tier 1 platforms in 10.0. There are > still some reasons to want gcc installed, but there are no > compelling reasons to want an ancient version of gcc installed > on x86[-64] or ARM. For people who need gcc, the ports > collection provides a selection of recent versions. > > David I surely hope not! Until the individuals pushing the change to clang actually tests clang on floating point intensive applications, it is IMHO dubious to even have clang as the default compiler. Just the latest example: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-numerics/2013-May/000354.html -- Steve From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 20:01:08 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14947BA9; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:01:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rpaulo@felyko.com) Received: from felyko.com (felyko.com [174.136.100.2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE5C271; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:01:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:c2:bd70:2451:66e7:97d] (unknown [IPv6:2601:9:4d00:c2:bd70:2451:66e7:97d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by felyko.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2E28D3981E; Tue, 28 May 2013 13:01:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=felyko.com; s=mail; t=1369771261; bh=ODUF8au/zAisiwpokd1l5aCGhbVXsQeF6fsrr/orwH4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=cPyk7WViibOR3Rt9x1MedF2m1u6sV0AtIeiScbZvU8QGA3ZBx3UeWTJclcgX26G4H 8wAokYH8/Z1SPY2x5ULxeQQsWh6/qIXgLS8TaCano+tsGOjg50jFlVfgYQbJIrAmB9 B7BmP0xsJ27PiY/kx2bxrNLgy7eZc0rY0Cm50IyE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona From: Rui Paulo In-Reply-To: <20130528195457.GA52250@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:01:00 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348@FreeBSD.org> <20130528195457.GA52250@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> To: Steve Kargl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:01:08 -0000 On 28 May 2013, at 12:54, Steve Kargl = wrote: > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 07:10:23PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote: >> On 28 May 2013, at 18:40, Warner Losh wrote: >>=20 >>> That's not going to happen soon. While it works OK for amd64, = there's still many bugs in its ARM support and even more in its MIPS = support. There's 0 chance it will be gone in 10... >>=20 >> I disagree. There is a significant chance that gcc in base >> will be gone for all Tier 1 platforms in 10.0. There are >> still some reasons to want gcc installed, but there are no >> compelling reasons to want an ancient version of gcc installed >> on x86[-64] or ARM. For people who need gcc, the ports >> collection provides a selection of recent versions. >>=20 >> David >=20 > I surely hope not! Until the individuals pushing the > change to clang actually tests clang on floating point > intensive applications, it is IMHO dubious to even have > clang as the default compiler. Just the latest example: >=20 > = http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-numerics/2013-May/000354.html Have you, or anyone else, filed bug reports at http://llvm.org/bugs/ ? Regards, -- Rui Paulo From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 20:25:44 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DEA459; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E4037C; Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost.apl.washington.edu [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r4SKPgGn052533; Tue, 28 May 2013 13:25:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.6/8.14.6/Submit) id r4SKPgLu052532; Tue, 28 May 2013 13:25:42 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:25:42 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Rui Paulo Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Message-ID: <20130528202542.GA52507@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348@FreeBSD.org> <20130528195457.GA52250@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 20:25:44 -0000 On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 01:01:00PM -0700, Rui Paulo wrote: > On 28 May 2013, at 12:54, Steve Kargl wrote: > > On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 07:10:23PM +0100, David Chisnall wrote: > >> On 28 May 2013, at 18:40, Warner Losh wrote: > >> > >>> That's not going to happen soon. While it works OK for amd64, there's still many bugs in its ARM support and even more in its MIPS support. There's 0 chance it will be gone in 10... > >> > >> I disagree. There is a significant chance that gcc in base > >> will be gone for all Tier 1 platforms in 10.0. There are > >> still some reasons to want gcc installed, but there are no > >> compelling reasons to want an ancient version of gcc installed > >> on x86[-64] or ARM. For people who need gcc, the ports > >> collection provides a selection of recent versions. > >> > > > > I surely hope not! Until the individuals pushing the > > change to clang actually tests clang on floating point > > intensive applications, it is IMHO dubious to even have > > clang as the default compiler. Just the latest example: > > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-numerics/2013-May/000354.html > > Have you, or anyone else, filed bug reports at http://llvm.org/bugs/ ? > I haven't submitted this bug. Given the attention that another bug that I pointed out, I have little interest in submitting other bugs. Ed Schouten submitted the bug report after I pointed out clang cannot do complex arithmetic correctly under certain circumstances. http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=8532 -- Steve From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Tue May 28 21:28:48 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5BE1305 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 21:28:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x22f.google.com (mail-ob0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22f]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF678ACA for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 21:28:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f175.google.com with SMTP id xn12so6323422obc.6 for ; Tue, 28 May 2013 14:28:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=ftAVp11jy2JLV6Rxfpzgbo32562PSOuuykiI2+DR0V0=; b=YMB8FZ7E7E6nE5A4DCfMxEMOmlEteIuMF0Lj5hvdBl6+XCvfd7qoN6EQg8S0jHoZ8Y VHPUhmEmhw1SfHVbGy3xN1rVXY8BeAqp2TR2TBhmkmyNjY0+P4jSZt4gxZE9Y2g8+HJv GjKcsC4plRHpmXU7VBT99TjEK9f6V7BTTc/USzpVpKPdvrPzqnJqEjA4XgPvlh6up5pR o8OfWsrWtJtzy16mQQqKXU2ubCTW+/2v1n4zoJtis5AyXGOlLJ7vPFdKq/MYtnZ9R++m xEsUJSfYpyyadhoW3Ogar7cNewixPbKazgSxg7T+3BOViZpNPe8ao8Cn9K7T7qyCN4fj nwAg== X-Received: by 10.60.131.104 with SMTP id ol8mr2356644oeb.104.1369776528165; Tue, 28 May 2013 14:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b1sm26235649oeo.8.2013.05.28.14.28.46 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 May 2013 14:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 15:28:44 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <75A860E0-B057-4F0C-84FF-AA7FF372E130@bsdimp.com> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348@FreeBSD.org> To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk+X5BCDG5PwGyVGjRTfCyBCMjA3Ji+D37AFzmbRYRU+hdL4DqL0GjTnLOebOT7kla1VlFL Cc: "toolchain@freebsd.org" , Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:28:49 -0000 On May 28, 2013, at 12:10 PM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 28 May 2013, at 18:40, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >> That's not going to happen soon. While it works OK for amd64, there's = still many bugs in its ARM support and even more in its MIPS support. = There's 0 chance it will be gone in 10... >=20 > I disagree. There is a significant chance that gcc in base will be = gone for all Tier 1 platforms in 10.0. There are still some reasons to = want gcc installed, but there are no compelling reasons to want an = ancient version of gcc installed on x86[-64] or ARM. For people who = need gcc, the ports collection provides a selection of recent versions. I think that's wildly optimistic. We have an integrated system, and = until clang makes it through a release, we need an easy to deploy backup = plan. While you can use clang in 9.x, it isn't default, so we're not = getting a lot of testing. While it is default in -current, there have = been many features that were default in current for years that didn't = find major, day-one problems when the release came. Today clang is useless for ARM kernels with WITNESS due to clang bugs. = While these bugs are being addressed (or maybe in the last week or two = have been addressed), there's be no stress testing of clang-built = systems to the level where we'd have high confidence that the result is = production ready. We haven't even begun to start to shake out all the = other ARM bugs that may be present. While it is true that Apple's #1 = target with clang is arm and amd64, it isn't for a system that's totally = identical to FreeBSD, so there are bound to be integration issues = lurking. And that doesn't even begin to cover ports, but at least there a = fallback to gcc strategy can be via the ports tree. History with the project follows the pattern of having wildly idealistic = goals, followed by realistic achievement in a time frame that was much = longer than was initially planned. Clang adaptation has followed this = pattern to date, and there's no reason to believe that it will be so = perfect that a fallback to gcc won't be needed for 10. Besides, it will still be needed for ia64, sparc64 and likely mips in = the 10 time frame, so it will still be in the system, and still = integrated into the system. That's really where my 0 chance comment came = from. The FreeBSD project is more than just tier 1 platforms. Warner From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 29 06:58:39 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5132A742; Wed, 29 May 2013 06:58:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9882F23; Wed, 29 May 2013 06:58:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id JAA09154; Wed, 29 May 2013 09:58:29 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1UhaL7-000GdY-5y; Wed, 29 May 2013 09:58:29 +0300 Message-ID: <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:57:56 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130405 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Chisnall Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 06:58:39 -0000 on 28/05/2013 21:10 David Chisnall said the following: > On 28 May 2013, at 18:40, Warner Losh wrote: > >> That's not going to happen soon. While it works OK for amd64, there's still >> many bugs in its ARM support and even more in its MIPS support. There's 0 >> chance it will be gone in 10... > > I disagree. There is a significant chance that gcc in base will be gone for > all Tier 1 platforms in 10.0. There are still some reasons to want gcc > installed, but there are no compelling reasons to want an ancient version of > gcc installed on x86[-64] or ARM. For people who need gcc, the ports > collection provides a selection of recent versions. I will try to veto any attempt to do so until at least this bug is fixed: http://llvm.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=15662 I am sure that other developers have their favorite bugs too. In fact, I am of opinion that while such bugs exist gcc should be crowned back as a default compiler. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 29 08:48:14 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A029543; Wed, 29 May 2013 08:48:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7F96BB; Wed, 29 May 2013 08:48:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cpc27-cmbg15-2-0-cust235.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com [86.27.188.236]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r4T8lvdG047507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 May 2013 08:48:00 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:47:52 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> To: Andriy Gapon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 08:48:14 -0000 On 29 May 2013, at 07:57, Andriy Gapon wrote: > In fact, I am of opinion that while such bugs exist gcc should be = crowned back > as a default compiler. Seriously? Your show stopper bug is that, very occasionally, clang = emits incorrect debug info? And Steve's is that clang emits code that = is fully compliant with the C standard, but gives more floating point = precision than he wanted? If those are the most serious problems we have with clang, then it's = time to remove gcc 4.2.1 from the tree right now. I wish the problems = that we had with it were so trivial... David From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 29 08:51:48 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EA45E9; Wed, 29 May 2013 08:51:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from citadel.icyb.net.ua (citadel.icyb.net.ua [212.40.38.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263526E0; Wed, 29 May 2013 08:51:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from porto.starpoint.kiev.ua (porto-e.starpoint.kiev.ua [212.40.38.100]) by citadel.icyb.net.ua (8.8.8p3/ICyb-2.3exp) with ESMTP id LAA11944; Wed, 29 May 2013 11:51:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by porto.starpoint.kiev.ua with esmtp (Exim 4.34 (FreeBSD)) id 1Uhc6i-000Gop-Ma; Wed, 29 May 2013 11:51:44 +0300 Message-ID: <51A5C17C.1070403@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 11:51:08 +0300 From: Andriy Gapon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130405 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Chisnall Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 08:51:48 -0000 on 29/05/2013 11:47 David Chisnall said the following: > Seriously? Your show stopper bug is that, very occasionally, clang emits incorrect debug info? Yes, that bug breaks some DTrace scripts that are critical to me. Otherwise I would not have noticed the issue. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 29 08:56:19 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F7283E; Wed, 29 May 2013 08:56:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theraven.freebsd.your.org [216.14.102.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85E00774; Wed, 29 May 2013 08:56:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (cpc27-cmbg15-2-0-cust235.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com [86.27.188.236]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r4T8uFZG047546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 May 2013 08:56:16 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona From: David Chisnall In-Reply-To: <51A5C17C.1070403@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:56:09 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5FE9094B-5B25-4E87-9674-669011C4DABF@FreeBSD.org> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> <51A5C17C.1070403@FreeBSD.org> To: Andriy Gapon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 08:56:19 -0000 On 29 May 2013, at 09:51, Andriy Gapon wrote: >=20 > Yes, that bug breaks some DTrace scripts that are critical to me. > Otherwise I would not have noticed the issue. Looking at the bug report, you filed it against clang 3.2, just after = 3.3 was branched. Did you test 3.3? Is it fixed? I can only assume = that, since the bug has been present in the system compiler for 6 months = without your noticing that it can't be that critical... David From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 29 13:25:20 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA3238F; Wed, 29 May 2013 13:25:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96BCDCF; Wed, 29 May 2013 13:25:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost.apl.washington.edu [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r4TDPALe057913; Wed, 29 May 2013 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.14.6/8.14.6/Submit) id r4TDPARl057912; Wed, 29 May 2013 06:25:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 06:25:10 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: David Chisnall Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Message-ID: <20130529132510.GA57733@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Andriy Gapon , toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo , amd64@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 13:25:20 -0000 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 09:47:52AM +0100, David Chisnall wrote: > On 29 May 2013, at 07:57, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > > In fact, I am of opinion that while such bugs exist gcc should be crowned back > > as a default compiler. > > Seriously? Your show stopper bug is that, very occasionally, clang emits incorrect debug info? And Steve's is that clang emits code that is fully compliant with the C standard, but gives more floating point precision than he wanted? > Ah, no. I just pointed to the last example of poor floating point support from clang. The other bug I mentioned has sat in the llvm bug database for nearly 2 years. But, to be blunt, clang cannot do complex arithmetic correctly. > If those are the most serious problems we have with clang, then > it's time to remove gcc 4.2.1 from the tree right now. I wish > the problems that we had with it were so trivial... The most serious problems IMNSHO are: 1) The dismal compile time of clang. My buildworlds are 3 to 4 times slower with clang than gcc. I certainly understand the recent explosion in tinderbox messages. No one wants to wait the better part of a day to do a make world and make universe must be painful. 2) Last time I checked, clang could not build a functioning X11 environment. Perhaps, having the xserver blow chunks when she's starting is consider to a Good Thing. When I reported the problem, I was dutifully informed that the problem wasn't clang, it was the x11 loader. Oddly, gcc does not have this issue. May be this has been fix. Don't know, don't care, because the last time I tried clang as the default compiler it took a week to recover a working environment. 3) Last time I benchmarked a libm built by clang against a libm built by gcc. gcc produced smaller, faster code and in one case a gcc compiled function produced a correct result while the clang compiled functions produced NaN for all inputs in a specific range. Yeah, I reported that too. I was told the test case was too complicated. PS: That extra precision can be a big headache when one is trying to write high quality software. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Wed May 29 16:06:47 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CAEE53D for ; Wed, 29 May 2013 16:06:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-x229.google.com (mail-ob0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::229]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9791686 for ; Wed, 29 May 2013 16:06:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ob0-f169.google.com with SMTP id up14so4203505obb.28 for ; Wed, 29 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=KQfJZcCTovTv3LoyiUc8IpdEJ0fUljqZMYMIToPGUeo=; b=VOIGcmoCy4tA7ZrUCKQNa1KaM6+vNBJ0k1hZCbNv8xNUdp8jKDVhxa3uDK0aA2hpB8 DF7b09mk9iGb07cONF7g4BVWL/a1uVOmLyxeGYvA/9Q1FXtJxUtzJJZnJm00uFgPqUPc 1e7ZMf+B3BNGFCys9XFFYPgz7o1hLpPAjlwOFwQmnktsNL1EEL+k/hWgWcuHZZ+Rsst/ +7LLM1bUDPxUVlZtkZso28ghV5NvgtV9P37BGyGhDYWH9BUowuINC616k/TDFtauEnyB YhchBLEL4+T3EPWw0K0VAxBKpf3thuLZUbY9AekLB0gi5XRtuEZ8lNIHBtSVDy/A3toF 7UTA== X-Received: by 10.60.34.135 with SMTP id z7mr2051708oei.68.1369843606284; Wed, 29 May 2013 09:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sa2sm11157904oeb.1.2013.05.29.09.06.44 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 29 May 2013 09:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 10:06:40 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <65AA3A88-7B5E-439F-950D-47EDCDC3EAD1@bsdimp.com> References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> To: David Chisnall X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmF/C+NzpoGa5YtOw3IeuyezqkTemDmAl3HkgYpp7zZcuZ2AUr7TvpiuRvcnXmgZ6vnpNtA Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Pedro Giffuni , Rui Paulo , Andriy Gapon X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 16:06:47 -0000 On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 29 May 2013, at 07:57, Andriy Gapon wrote: >=20 >> In fact, I am of opinion that while such bugs exist gcc should be = crowned back >> as a default compiler. >=20 > Seriously? Your show stopper bug is that, very occasionally, clang = emits incorrect debug info? And Steve's is that clang emits code that = is fully compliant with the C standard, but gives more floating point = precision than he wanted? >=20 > If those are the most serious problems we have with clang, then it's = time to remove gcc 4.2.1 from the tree right now. I wish the problems = that we had with it were so trivial... NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = . There are serious problems with clang on arm right now. And it doesn't = support mips. Removing gcc is way premature. Warner From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 30 16:16:41 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C499D72 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 16:16:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from nm30-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm30-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.90.46]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27DA2B4 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 16:16:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.138.90.51] by nm30.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2013 16:11:18 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.60] by tm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2013 16:11:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp211.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2013 16:11:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 224586.39253.bm@smtp211.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: Z2xGMyMVM1kXujRXmM3oZCVDuUSqnz5604WjKLZZViklP51 oxaiGSqOH68tx_U94MixSj0OyFGWG5_hwlKLlsTs6xNMVBwjQFWedXukbiwo Jh74J16x95N93T_U0mRUJW.MhoUnwiCYzjAELtLPVjvPLSnXQvkhxUka6y.I Vn6dAMRKiwXSv0F18rG2CesxVQ.veVVW0wRMgdA8fCUUvhWT4qjcww7w7DDm HCTx3fxikJPS7zYac3C1tGf8zrshBFjt3o9MKn7GT7rtEh54jJz1LDPXBLMl WZFrozByDlQa0n5VgD9fXqE_cgJzJbPF5QZyYVKwiBJ.1C8ioH3psSni8tFq t1rP5VqOln6lTjSxD_DWLc4W4VyojCn.rdNKIGOxTK6vCgJUbRy6PPHWjy9S VbTgxpIbhLtkjdfo05tpKWiXZ_JFVonzvp9JKjGquiMMpPmj3q85FLUhBUVu YAtuVglfIUgU61tEJNDYR1sJ5KRSHWzIOsMkgQ1LNjosM6eDJPesyVeWH X-Yahoo-SMTP: xcjD0guswBAZaPPIbxpWwLcp9Unf X-Rocket-Received: from [192.168.0.102] (pfg@190.157.126.109 with ) by smtp211.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2013 09:11:18 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <51A77A22.3040103@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:11:14 -0500 From: Pedro Giffuni User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130407 Thunderbird/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> <65AA3A88-7B5E-439F-950D-47EDCDC3EAD1@bsdimp.com> In-Reply-To: <65AA3A88-7B5E-439F-950D-47EDCDC3EAD1@bsdimp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Rui Paulo , Andriy Gapon X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 16:16:41 -0000 On 29.05.2013 11:06, Warner Losh wrote: > On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > >> On 29 May 2013, at 07:57, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> >>> In fact, I am of opinion that while such bugs exist gcc should be crowned back >>> as a default compiler. >> Seriously? Your show stopper bug is that, very occasionally, clang emits incorrect debug info? And Steve's is that clang emits code that is fully compliant with the C standard, but gives more floating point precision than he wanted? >> >> If those are the most serious problems we have with clang, then it's time to remove gcc 4.2.1 from the tree right now. I wish the problems that we had with it were so trivial... > NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO > ... > There are serious problems with clang on arm right now. And it doesn't support mips. Removing gcc is way premature. > > Warner > I didn't meant to start a clang vs gcc thread but it's evident that we were actually in need of expressing the issues about clang and the future of the tool chain. IMHO: - gcc has to go. It is old and, despite the scotch tape, unmaintained. libstdc++ in particular really has to go first: it is too confusing to have two C++ libraries where one of them is simply obsolete. OpenOffice, for example was recently ported to clang and libc++ however it will not work with the libstdc++ in base due to lack of C++11 support. - clang is not ready but it is getting there: I appreciate greatly having compiler_rt and the new C++ stack available. Unfortunately I do agree with the opinion that clang is taking too long to build and has become a bottleneck for buildworld. Now I would really like to see both gcc and clang living as packages outside of base. This would also mean that the installer has to start learning about pkgng (which is one of the things I miss about sysinstall). It's all wishful thinking though so I just want to thank everyone that is doing the real work both making an external toolchain possible and improving clang support. Regards, Pedro. From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 30 17:03:25 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4E79B8 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 17:03:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ie0-x234.google.com (mail-ie0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::234]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DEE16D0 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 17:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f180.google.com with SMTP id b11so1219726iee.11 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=oYtv7qsTyACIwJQOg3cgKill3wzWP1qKviemq82E7rI=; b=IqpDKq1crx2XXsjziicUQMQWN7LT3YZ0jglS7WCYVatYp4OTu5U7h+KmqKiYekZNbo JQIFnOrmawwKTNU0IiHVEDzgo6Iq4ePb2G0hsQKMI6qOBrDAF5orOuzgkAw107jDFcyd Wrffj+kVn4Lx/W2IDTAs8BG0jJTYevIPKu9U/G8yWZAEOZ1aFMpRVPOObqpUpJhqpyH5 G00jKUKPPlr320aNKG7n5K1KHkvZWFNgcQIvTKuIJHk4QRkuJQINyrPoCh/QZdNEmOZS 87JSsJlAS3ankXVHr8FsrMqR+F+bkONzhuptz5JsaTobpbWL6Co9wpV6Cjz8wd//ePwo uzAg== X-Received: by 10.42.50.202 with SMTP id b10mr3532709icg.7.1369933404601; Thu, 30 May 2013 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from monkey-bot.int.fusionio.com ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w8sm28106076igl.9.2013.05.30.10.03.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 30 May 2013 10:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Subject: Re: [CFT] gcc: support for barcelona Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: <51A77A22.3040103@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 11:03:20 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <51A38CBD.6000702@FreeBSD.org> <51A3B8AB.5080808@FreeBSD.org> <521EEFA1-E116-41F5-B618-238E7AA092A8@bsdimp.com> <3C29AD82-077D-4E6B-94C7-5D069A130348__27528.1591726982$1369769859$gmane$org@FreeBSD.org> <51A5A6F4.8000501@FreeBSD.org> <65AA3A88-7B5E-439F-950D-47EDCDC3EAD1@bsdimp.com> <51A77A22.3040103@FreeBSD.org> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkq45PR3Zspc5BZ162mnsVOZQIfLj+9O97V5LyNnNwSx0JobErjp0k4ttDqDa4/i0b1ak8y Cc: amd64@FreeBSD.org, toolchain@FreeBSD.org, Rui Paulo , Andriy Gapon X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:03:25 -0000 On May 30, 2013, at 10:11 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: > On 29.05.2013 11:06, Warner Losh wrote: >> On May 29, 2013, at 2:47 AM, David Chisnall wrote: >>=20 >>> On 29 May 2013, at 07:57, Andriy Gapon wrote: >>>=20 >>>> In fact, I am of opinion that while such bugs exist gcc should be = crowned back >>>> as a default compiler. >>> Seriously? Your show stopper bug is that, very occasionally, clang = emits incorrect debug info? And Steve's is that clang emits code that = is fully compliant with the C standard, but gives more floating point = precision than he wanted? >>>=20 >>> If those are the most serious problems we have with clang, then it's = time to remove gcc 4.2.1 from the tree right now. I wish the problems = that we had with it were so trivial... >> NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO = NO NO NO BTW, this was over the top for me, and I shouldn't have done this. >> ... >> There are serious problems with clang on arm right now. And it = doesn't support mips. Removing gcc is way premature. >>=20 >> Warner >>=20 >=20 > I didn't meant to start a clang vs gcc thread but it's evident that > we were actually in need of expressing the issues about clang > and the future of the tool chain. >=20 > IMHO: >=20 > - gcc has to go. It is old and, despite the scotch tape, unmaintained. > libstdc++ in particular really has to go first: it is too confusing to > have two C++ libraries where one of them is simply obsolete. > OpenOffice, for example was recently ported to clang and libc++ > however it will not work with the libstdc++ in base due to lack of > C++11 support. gcc is slated to be removed in 11. It is still useful in 10 to bootstrap = the external toolchain solution for non-tier 1 ports which otherwise = would be hard to build since we have no useful packages yet. Some ports = won't even build gcc by default in 10. Our external toolchain support is = brand new and shiny, but hasn't been through an end-to-end test yet on = all the platforms. Warner= From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 30 20:49:15 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47943C62 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 20:49:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6D579C for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 20:49:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r4UKnEuE040178; Thu, 30 May 2013 13:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r4UKnEGI040177; Thu, 30 May 2013 13:49:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:49:14 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: toolchain@freebsd.org Subject: Should "make -DNOCLEAN buildworld" always rebuild clang? Message-ID: <20130530204914.GN1334@albert.catwhisker.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yY9LxKOJMX9E+noF" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:49:15 -0000 --yY9LxKOJMX9E+noF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As some of you may be aware, I track stable/9 daily. (A recent history of "uname -vp" outputs for stable/9 on my laptop may be seen at .) And lest this message is misinterpreted: I am not complaining. In particular, I am not complaining about clang: I switched to using clang for the system-build compiler shortly after BSDCan 2012, and I've never looked back. I'm very happy to have an alternative to gcc. Yesterday, I had built r251096M; this morning, I updated to r251113M and rebuilt with "touch /sys/conf/newvers.sh && make -j4 -DNOCLEAN buildworld". (Copy of typescript file available at .) As shown in the typescript, the sole change showed up as: Script started on Thu May 30 04:22:12 2013 svn update /usr/src Updating '/usr/src': U /usr/src/usr.sbin/newsyslog/newsyslog.c Updated to revision 251129. Script done on Thu May 30 04:22:18 2013 which would seem to have had minimal effect on the toolchain. Yet the vast bulk of the above-cited typescript appears to be showing the toolchain being rebuilt. Is this intended? Some other salient bits: /etc/src.conf: d129(9.1-S)[2] cat /etc/src.conf=20 KERNCONF=3DCANARY PORTS_MODULES=3Dx11/nvidia-driver CC=3Dclang CXX=3Dclang++ CPP=3Dclang-cpp WITH_LIBCPLUSPLUS=3Dyes d129(9.1-S)[3]=20 /etc/make.conf: d129(9.1-S)[3] cat /etc/make.conf SENDMAIL_MC=3D/etc/mail/laptop.mc NET_SNMP_SYS_CONTACT=3D"david@catwhisker.org" NET_SNMP_SYS_LOCATION=3D"variable" NET_SNMP_LOGFILE=3D/var/log/snmpd.log NET_SNMP_PERSISTENTDIR=3D/var/net-snmp WITH_BSD_JDK=3DTRUE FORCE_PKG_REGISTER=3D NO # For mplayer WITHOUT_RUNTIME_CPUDETECTION=3D YES WITH_OPTIMIZED_CFLAGS=3D YES WITHOUT_CJK=3D YES NO_SUID_XSERVER=3DYES # For Linux compat OVERRIDE_LINUX_BASE_PORT=3Df10 OVERRIDE_LINUX_NONBASE_PORTS=3Df10 # added by use.perl 2012-09-16 05:37:23 PERL_VERSION=3D5.14.2 INSTALL_AS_NCFTP=3Dyes WITHOUT_PKGNG=3D YES d129(9.1-S)[4]=20 Thanks. Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Taliban: Evil men with guns afraid of truth from a 14-year old girl. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --yY9LxKOJMX9E+noF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAlGnu0kACgkQmprOCmdXAD2NsACfXwqVf962EoEyICrzLB3FyTie 8/IAn3V6LdnsuNYsaElxJiiAkmR4hx2m =S+6d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yY9LxKOJMX9E+noF-- From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 30 21:19:35 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D9169D for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 21:19:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (tensor.andric.com [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:1:2d0:b7ff:fea0:8c26]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34119A9 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 21:19:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7::d99b:2cb4:d351:6ffe] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:d99b:2cb4:d351:6ffe]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 914D85C44; Thu, 30 May 2013 23:19:25 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: Should "make -DNOCLEAN buildworld" always rebuild clang? From: Dimitry Andric In-Reply-To: <20130530204914.GN1334@albert.catwhisker.org> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 23:19:24 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <2DA92EEE-4ED9-416F-B7BD-FAB9F8A54FED@FreeBSD.org> References: <20130530204914.GN1334@albert.catwhisker.org> To: David Wolfskill X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: toolchain@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:19:35 -0000 On May 30, 2013, at 22:49, David Wolfskill wrote: > As some of you may be aware, I track stable/9 daily. (A recent history > of "uname -vp" outputs for stable/9 on my laptop may be seen at > .) > > And lest this message is misinterpreted: I am not complaining. In > particular, I am not complaining about clang: I switched to using clang > for the system-build compiler shortly after BSDCan 2012, and I've never > looked back. I'm very happy to have an alternative to gcc. > > Yesterday, I had built r251096M; this morning, I updated to r251113M > and rebuilt with "touch /sys/conf/newvers.sh && make -j4 -DNOCLEAN > buildworld". (Copy of typescript file available at > .) > > As shown in the typescript, the sole change showed up as: > > Script started on Thu May 30 04:22:12 2013 > svn update /usr/src > Updating '/usr/src': > U /usr/src/usr.sbin/newsyslog/newsyslog.c > Updated to revision 251129. > > Script done on Thu May 30 04:22:18 2013 > > > which would seem to have had minimal effect on the toolchain. > > Yet the vast bulk of the above-cited typescript appears to be showing > the toolchain being rebuilt. Is this intended? It is not really intended, but an unfortunate side effect of . When you touch sys/conf/newvers.sh, it causes include/Makefile to generate a new osreldate.h, so everything depending on that header will be rebuilt. And r250217 introduced a dependency of the llvm config.h file on osreldate.h, to determine whether log2() is available (and so make it possible to build head on older FreeBSD releases). I am not sure if there is an easy way around this. When implementing r250217, I considered various ways to detect at build time which host system is used, but IIRC none of the alternatives were completely bulletproof. The only suggestion I can give at the moment is: don't touch sys/conf/newvers.sh. :) Why are you doing this anyway? -Dimitry From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 30 21:27:53 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE3ABF3 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 21:27:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (tensor.andric.com [87.251.56.140]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51BBA70 for ; Thu, 30 May 2013 21:27:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7::d99b:2cb4:d351:6ffe] (unknown [IPv6:2001:7b8:3a7:0:d99b:2cb4:d351:6ffe]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E2B45C44; Thu, 30 May 2013 23:27:44 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.3 \(1503\)) Subject: Re: Should "make -DNOCLEAN buildworld" always rebuild clang? From: Dimitry Andric In-Reply-To: <2DA92EEE-4ED9-416F-B7BD-FAB9F8A54FED@FreeBSD.org> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 23:27:43 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4E7AAF4D-11B6-4BD0-A6B4-047741BECDBE@FreeBSD.org> References: <20130530204914.GN1334@albert.catwhisker.org> <2DA92EEE-4ED9-416F-B7BD-FAB9F8A54FED@FreeBSD.org> To: David Wolfskill X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1503) Cc: toolchain@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:27:53 -0000 On May 30, 2013, at 23:19, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On May 30, 2013, at 22:49, David Wolfskill wrote: >> As some of you may be aware, I track stable/9 daily. (A recent history >> of "uname -vp" outputs for stable/9 on my laptop may be seen at >> .) >> >> And lest this message is misinterpreted: I am not complaining. In >> particular, I am not complaining about clang: I switched to using clang >> for the system-build compiler shortly after BSDCan 2012, and I've never >> looked back. I'm very happy to have an alternative to gcc. >> >> Yesterday, I had built r251096M; this morning, I updated to r251113M >> and rebuilt with "touch /sys/conf/newvers.sh && make -j4 -DNOCLEAN >> buildworld". (Copy of typescript file available at >> .) >> >> As shown in the typescript, the sole change showed up as: >> >> Script started on Thu May 30 04:22:12 2013 >> svn update /usr/src >> Updating '/usr/src': >> U /usr/src/usr.sbin/newsyslog/newsyslog.c >> Updated to revision 251129. >> >> Script done on Thu May 30 04:22:18 2013 >> >> >> which would seem to have had minimal effect on the toolchain. >> >> Yet the vast bulk of the above-cited typescript appears to be showing >> the toolchain being rebuilt. Is this intended? > > It is not really intended, but an unfortunate side effect of > . When you touch > sys/conf/newvers.sh, it causes include/Makefile to generate a new > osreldate.h, so everything depending on that header will be rebuilt. Gah, never mind that... I failed to notice you are building stable/9, sorry. In that case, I don't know exactly what is going on. Obviously, osreldate.h is being updated too, but I would not expect so much stuff to be rebuilt because of it. -Dimitry From owner-freebsd-toolchain@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 30 21:33:30 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: toolchain@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C551E5A; Thu, 30 May 2013 21:33:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (m209-73.dsl.rawbw.com [198.144.209.73]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076CAC9; Thu, 30 May 2013 21:33:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r4ULXTo9040564; Thu, 30 May 2013 14:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id r4ULXTno040563; Thu, 30 May 2013 14:33:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:33:29 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: Dimitry Andric Subject: Re: Should "make -DNOCLEAN buildworld" always rebuild clang? Message-ID: <20130530213329.GQ1334@albert.catwhisker.org> References: <20130530204914.GN1334@albert.catwhisker.org> <2DA92EEE-4ED9-416F-B7BD-FAB9F8A54FED@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="6JKsAUbrJhuSllgx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2DA92EEE-4ED9-416F-B7BD-FAB9F8A54FED@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: toolchain@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Maintenance of FreeBSD's integrated toolchain List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:33:30 -0000 --6JKsAUbrJhuSllgx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:19:24PM +0200, Dimitry Andric wrote: > ... > > Yet the vast bulk of the above-cited typescript appears to be showing > > the toolchain being rebuilt. Is this intended? >=20 > It is not really intended, but an unfortunate side effect of > . When you touch > sys/conf/newvers.sh, it causes include/Makefile to generate a new > osreldate.h, so everything depending on that header will be rebuilt. Ah. Pity that depends on mtime, vs. (say) a hash of the content. :-} > And r250217 introduced a dependency of the llvm config.h file on > osreldate.h, to determine whether log2() is available (and so make it > possible to build head on older FreeBSD releases). OK. > I am not sure if there is an easy way around this. When implementing > r250217, I considered various ways to detect at build time which host > system is used, but IIRC none of the alternatives were completely > bulletproof. >=20 > The only suggestion I can give at the moment is: don't touch > sys/conf/newvers.sh. :) Why are you doing this anyway? Well, if I had not touched it this morning (when the only change in /usr/src at all was to src/usr.sbin/newsyslog/newsyslog.c), the "uname -vp" output for today would reflect the same as yesterday -- i.e., r251096M, even though r251113M is what actually reflects the state of the source tree as of the most recent build. I am trying to make the revision number useful for specifying the state of the source tree -- at least for me. Thus, a glance at (say) currently actually depicts which revisions passed my smoke test for stable/9 i386 recently. Maybe I should (also) look at modifying newvers.sh so it could avoid touching osreldate.h unless the new content that it would generate is actually different from the previous content.... Thanks for the insight! Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Taliban: Evil men with guns afraid of truth from a 14-year old girl. See http://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --6JKsAUbrJhuSllgx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAlGnxacACgkQmprOCmdXAD03FQCdH+kn5RSIyvy+jKtvBCwx/WUC Z0QAnj7EOhxp7g5SkFbGgrwIHYhBQ6ib =IqOQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6JKsAUbrJhuSllgx--