From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 19 23:54:51 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1F9DAFE; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 23:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A45BE2AE0; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 23:54:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id et14so7539856pad.35 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 16:54:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+wRvSZP+qP464DuFKOk6jKLAvAdDgyn24FfM7RspSd8=; b=R5R2PXr2PhkmCTrLxAueQzd8HkXqooFclxY7JJ4VRlJGW05HTNH8VzLGqlmconcXc/ HBGQQW0xI6lWpDiP+hrUHjfnd4j8cnW9ZBi/2JD1h3nrObEPvoSUPyhfvOotCumbx1MI YSTD0LkM5jGEKW0aCqV6Hm3QZPUwFggt92q9fd7sG81g6d8fECIG4Xb1lzcQ7TmzeVJi dUUvQhMJ05de+AeajODFzL376NsGwqdyXDk3oarjqeT+e+r9EIE7+Fk7VqRQKVrlv1+D 9TS87uKW9dUKOpmOGGfpNbE+Upc3S0Xt57ZUsYxoh6Uuq5A02HgRoZjnsZbaXJnsMoKS qPOQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.70.100.131 with SMTP id ey3mr15061679pdb.60.1405814091095; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 16:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Sender: kob6558@gmail.com Received: by 10.66.88.227 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 16:54:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8E7D9358-29BA-48F9-9067-1BBA48470673@FreeBSD.org> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <53C9DAA1.4020006@bluerosetech.com> <8E7D9358-29BA-48F9-9067-1BBA48470673@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 16:54:50 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6coVMr44UhW_ofTMas96O2ds5ao Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Kevin Oberman To: Mark Felder X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 00:05:32 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: Mailinglists FreeBSD , Gleb Smirnoff , Darren Pilgrim , Andreas Nilsson , Current FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 23:54:52 -0000 On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 6:50 AM, Mark Felder wrote: > > On Jul 19, 2014, at 3:35, Andreas Nilsson wrote: > > > On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Darren Pilgrim < > > list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com> wrote: > > > >> On 7/18/2014 4:06 AM, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > >> > >>> K> b) We are a major release away from OpenBSD (5.6 coming soon) - is > >>> K> following OpenBSD's pf the past? - should it be? > >>> > >>> Following OpenBSD on features would be cool, but no bulk imports > >>> would be made again. Bulk imports produce bad quality of port, > >>> and also pf in OpenBSD has no multi thread support. > >>> > >> > >> I would much rather have a slower pf that actually supports modern > >> networking than a faster one I can't use due to showstopper flaws and > >> missing features. > >> > > > > So would I. Not that we use pf, but anyway. > > > >> > >> There is currently no viable firewall module for FreeBSD if you want to > do > >> things like route IPv6. > > > > > > Isn't that possible with ipfw? > > > > Perhaps the pf guys in OpenBSD could be convinced to start openpf and > have > > porting layer as in openzfs. > > > > I do not know ipfw IPv6 limitations, but the Wikipedia article says: > > * IPv6 support (with several limitations) > > > Choice is nice, but I would like to see the project promote one firewall > to users. My coworkers long ago jumped ship from ipfw to pf and I know > regret that decision due to the IPv6 bugs. At this point it's too hard to > migrate all the servers off of pf. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I believe that this is obsolete, at least with 10. It certainly used to be the case in older versions. I suspect the improved ipfw is now in 9.3 and perhaps even 8.4, but I can't swear to it. I do know that the 10.0 version broke several of my firewall rules which would have made back-porting to older versions unacceptable but I believe that this is no longer the case. Some IPv6 specific keywords had been eliminated, but I think that they are all back in place, now. No longer required, but there for compatibility. The last feature I am aware of that lacked ipv6 support was tables. If any more exist, they are subtle and I have not hit hem to this point. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 04:36:26 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 181A7174; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:36:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from yoshi.brtsvcs.net (yoshi.brtsvcs.net [IPv6:2607:f2f8:a450::66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2DF42EA7; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:36:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from chombo.houseloki.net (c-73-37-112-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net [73.37.112.64]) by yoshi.brtsvcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 997E0E603E; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 21:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:7:2280:38b:baca:3aff:fe83:bd29] (unknown [IPv6:2601:7:2280:38b:baca:3aff:fe83:bd29]) by chombo.houseloki.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97842DA; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 21:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 21:36:06 -0700 From: Darren Pilgrim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Franco Fichtner , "Kristian K. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> In-Reply-To: <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:36:26 -0000 On 7/18/2014 6:51 AM, Franco Fichtner wrote: >> c) We never got the new syntax from OpenBSD 4.7's pf - at the time a long discussion on the pf-mailing list flamed the new syntax saying it would cause FreeBSD administrators too much headache. Today on the list it seems everyone wants it - so would we rather stay on a dead branch than keep up with the main stream? > > I'd say many people are comfortable with an old state of pf (silent > majority), but that shouldn't keep us from catching up with newer > features (and of course bugfixes). Never mistake silence for consent. The vast majority of people don't know pf is outdated and broken on FreeBSD because they don't know what they're missing and likely aren't using IPv6 yet. The moment you turn on IPv6 and restart a validating unbound, you run full-speed into pf's broken behaviour. Make an EDNS0-enabled query for a signed zone and you'll get a fragmented UDP packet that will never make it through unless you tell pf to allow all fragments unconditionally. They'll simply think something is wrong with unbound, turn off EDNS0 and/or validation, hurt peformance and/or security in the process, and never realize their firewall is doing literally the worst possible thing it could do. All because over half a decade ago some folks got all butthurt over a config file format change. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 04:38:52 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1527232A; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:38:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x232.google.com (mail-qg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B98A22ECA; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:38:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id q108so4398430qgd.37 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 21:38:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=MmBoV/zQV53yYq8JccL/45Y65Nk5q9hE2N7cW9pS4/U=; b=eTNk4XPIYvPP9/hlA7+YEgqZb+6aoGlbszlRyIPySsElqB6qSj7Pe3BAiRbpUJQjuw gjQllHCOC+/mdTiQ9ynuRDjqDW7BgK5mG8OOs//ZDLTHgFoNUTj/9g/aDF2vv639x+OB Ockgi3OjbD8htGiuJxyQieOAyk2jS17F2q0qFCbZWu1gjFMAiBHviXfZ9HGt0U8fdf5W Iwlv83UO3d6R8/9RWAH0Phv24Ht0evKUyoYYB4hYiQgx8PtKDIv8RTxrhzJpMYyRRgbT Zc54anvUoUbM1BiPG6jrHz4cDlVBQBgpSxltEz4WDdmC7Fs13bS5Df1UeRoxIxD8uTSU UBxg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.223.135 with SMTP id ik7mr26732949qab.26.1405831130363; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 21:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.1.6 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Jul 2014 21:38:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 21:38:50 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: abMzYNWNs45dzFVFfgHUd50HS10 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Adrian Chadd To: Darren Pilgrim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "Kristian K. Nielsen" , Franco Fichtner , freebsd-current , FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:38:52 -0000 On 19 July 2014 21:36, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > On 7/18/2014 6:51 AM, Franco Fichtner wrote: >>> >>> c) We never got the new syntax from OpenBSD 4.7's pf - at the time a long >>> discussion on the pf-mailing list flamed the new syntax saying it would >>> cause FreeBSD administrators too much headache. Today on the list it seems >>> everyone wants it - so would we rather stay on a dead branch than keep up >>> with the main stream? >> >> >> I'd say many people are comfortable with an old state of pf (silent >> majority), but that shouldn't keep us from catching up with newer >> features (and of course bugfixes). > > > Never mistake silence for consent. > > The vast majority of people don't know pf is outdated and broken on FreeBSD > because they don't know what they're missing and likely aren't using IPv6 > yet. The moment you turn on IPv6 and restart a validating unbound, you run > full-speed into pf's broken behaviour. Make an EDNS0-enabled query for a > signed zone and you'll get a fragmented UDP packet that will never make it > through unless you tell pf to allow all fragments unconditionally. They'll > simply think something is wrong with unbound, turn off EDNS0 and/or > validation, hurt peformance and/or security in the process, and never > realize their firewall is doing literally the worst possible thing it could > do. > > All because over half a decade ago some folks got all butthurt over a config > file format change. if someone wants to port the up to date pf and can fix whatever performance / parallelism issues creep up, then go for it. -a From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 05:21:54 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BF0E70B for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 05:21:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EEB321F8 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 05:21:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (static-71-177-216-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [71.177.216.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6K5Lomg003609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 19 Jul 2014 22:21:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 22:21:50 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> To: Warren Block X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 05:21:54 -0000 On 19 July 2014, at 05:27, Warren Block wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >=20 >> On 18 July 2014, at 16:01, Warren Block wrote: >>> It's not necessary to delete the source every time. But /usr/src = should be empty before the initial svn checkout, or there will be files = in there that are unmanaged and can cause problems. The Subversion = instructions mention this. (Or at least some of them do, we have a fair = amount of similar sections in different chapters and sections that need = to be combined.) >>>=20 >>=20 >> I didn't find any mention of that in the manual. >=20 > There is one here: >=20 > = http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/svn.html#svn-usa= ge >=20 Yes there is, now that I understand it. For those who know - its all = there. For those who don't, its not obvious. The focus of the manual = should be different from the man pages. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 11:58:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5684399 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:58:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 551DB2D13 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:58:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop3.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop3.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.185]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A17A27363 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:58:22 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <53CBAECF.70806@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:58:07 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:58:34 -0000 On 07/18/14 23:26, krad wrote: > this is also another important point. If you go onto google and search on > how to do this and that under pf, you get a mix of freebsd, and openbsd > stuff coming up. I havent analysed it but i think the majority of the stuff > is openbsd related. THerefore I find some nice solution to my problem, only > to find out a bit later I cant use it because its not supported under > freebsd. This is anoying, but more importantly confuses new sysadmins and > puts them off adopting pf and possibly a bsd at all. Ditto on all this! The doc for pf is all only available under man, and any references (in handbook, etc) go to openbsd which then creates syntax issues. And obviously easing feature updates and compatibility is an enormous plus for devs and doc producers. Perhaps backward compatibility could be a tack on instead? So a huge ++1 for an update to syntax from me. Pretty please :) > > > On 18 July 2014 14:12, Gerrit Kühn wrote: > >> On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 15:06:45 +0400 Gleb Smirnoff >> wrote about Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ?: >> >> GS> The pf mailing list is about a dozen of active people. Yes, they are >> GS> vocal on the new syntax. But there also exist a large number of common >> GS> FreeBSD users who simply use pf w/o caring about syntax and reading pf >> GS> mailing list. If we destroy the syntax compatibility a very large >> GS> population of users would be hurt, for the sake of making a dozen >> GS> happy. >> >> I have thought about this for some time now, and I think I do not agree. I >> do remember quite well when OpenBSD changed from ipf to pf, and I had to >> come up with new rules files. Yes, this is a burden for people maintaining >> these systems, but if the thing is well documented and comes with benefits >> (like staying in sync with other developers, allowing new features etc.) I >> doubt that many people will really be minding this. >> >> >> cu >> Gerrit >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >> freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 11:18:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FEC1BA1; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:18:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yk0-x22a.google.com (mail-yk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0125D2A55; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:18:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yk0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 9so2317764ykp.15 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:18:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=DGDxaH07iHwhjdykKVXkqGajWuvmtuma03S9Y9fm4bE=; b=Mba0ZZo3LhfcmNQULjf8CnY46pnQW+/83Ga2RqWP1MjVSycCwO1f8aJWtsXFZV7cF0 VlNGco4yG9cDbnrU1E+n4XhDH0eMbqHOljbrHURtH170BGAFGQ3HlSExEc2rDLMRucFm jvVxiem87EWMbjvVIB/FbPxvv8oJtdLPZV6B0uFQfHSONhKgPK5p+Dq2Gvprm6mMx3Va WrQeAMQm6CPrxcalg3dwC2VHx4YcLSnrwqprsnXWPo+6I+ykqR8IilDroyeMDysuxyUx M2h07fxVqbR0e2gny189R5ngef2r7Rn8Wr7Inu6+5LMIyS0d38UWRpidSkvqA6CwzYUN exzg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.108.147 with SMTP id q19mr28114649yhg.27.1405855134154; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.132.80 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 04:18:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:18:54 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: krad To: Stephen Hurd X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:01:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , =?UTF-8?B?R2Vycml0IEvDvGhu?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Gleb Smirnoff , Matt Bettinger X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:18:55 -0000 all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two versions of pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It confuses people, which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide an conquer for other platforms. I really like the idea of the openpf version, that has been mentioned in this thread. It would be awesome if it ended up as a supported linux thing as well, so the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess thats just an unrealistic dream On 19 July 2014 09:32, Stephen Hurd wrote: > krad wrote: > > that is true and I have not problem using man pages, however thats not > the > > way most of the world work and search engines arent exactly new either. > We > > should be trying to engage more people not less, and part of that is > > reaching out. > > One of FreeBSD's historic strengths has been the handbook and generally > good quality documentation. There is no way that the FreeBSD project > can ensure that all Google results for everyone in the world are FreeBSD > related "good" documentation, but it can ensure that the documentation > included with FreeBSD is accurate and usable, and it can ensure that the > FreeBSD documentation is available via the internet. > > Aside from blindly following whatever generates the most Google results > (an obviously broken solution), what exactly can the FreeBSD project do > to ensure that when someone "Googles" a problem they will end up with a > correct FreeBSD solution? > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 12:14:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6057D44 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:14:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-x231.google.com (mail-wg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F9242EC9 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:14:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id k14so5394595wgh.32 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 05:14:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9gEDsVHkl2tRbAQMdu6PcXPLVI6eyfUSdXddgN5R2KI=; b=f/J1NHrBHKO34K7ZuDcF4IxU/7kuCEXCdRjJyvretBDzoCgrpPYWZWJkQbYs2CupIt thl38oUoJ4A1PWECB0ammXG4ZuRHMq9AjBDPN6Oh19GhQe2cbh+PrRxxGR5AZj7X8ZOD WN6Ocn5oI/lU3QRux62JEjfvt4QfhiD1cNxr3mUCXZ21zf6lUBJn8qsLCYHAedzdWCR1 jDoxCmH/vo7mfgfvUba6/lF7k+cikKxZT7AFI6M+GYgrqsonJ/nUk0DGY9l39aMRQxKr GyaBu71NXXFxOdBShqI98MEbTQyhUBowI+iDv9VadvUTkW3WxEKJ7i0RgoGKvIa5qN/f DArQ== X-Received: by 10.180.81.234 with SMTP id d10mr23941123wiy.79.1405858479453; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 05:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fu7sm29529181wib.2.2014.07.20.05.14.37 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 05:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:14:35 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: squid & steam Message-ID: <20140720131435.5f20ac46@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <201407192216.46247.guy.harrison@swampdog.co.uk> References: <201407192216.46247.guy.harrison@swampdog.co.uk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:14:41 -0000 On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 22:16:46 +0100 Guy Harrison wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > I'm sure this is down to my stupidity but has anyone else seen this > page.. https://store.steampowered.com/account/ > ..come up with a white background & most of the links broken? > > Works fine when I bypass squid. I ask here because I recently updated > squid to.. I'm using squid and that page looks fine to me. It's an https page so the browser should just request a CONNECT to tunnel through squid to the origin server. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 13:39:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B7A3976; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:39:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from oneyou.mcmli.com (oneyou.mcmli.com [IPv6:2001:470:1d:8da::100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "oneyou.mcmli.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC3FF2461; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:39:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sentry.24cl.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:558:6017:a2:a860:3073:4c46:6ac9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "sentry.24cl.com", Issuer "Mike's Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by oneyou.mcmli.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3hGRxr0V2lz1DRn; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 09:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BigBloat (bigbloat.24cl.home [10.20.1.4]) by sentry.24cl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hGRxm4Qzcz1Bmx; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 09:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <201407200939020335.0017641F@smtp.24cl.home> In-Reply-To: <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 09:39:02 -0400 From: "Mike." To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:39:32 -0000 On 7/19/2014 at 9:36 PM Darren Pilgrim wrote: |On 7/18/2014 6:51 AM, Franco Fichtner wrote: | [snip] | | |All because over half a decade ago some folks got all butthurt over a |config file format change. ============= I'm juggling two formats for specifying NIC configurations in rc.conf, one on a 8.4 server and another on some 10.0 servers. I've also been through pf.conf syntax changes in the past, and I expect to be subject to pf.con syntax changes in the future. Did I have to do some extra work to accomodate those changes? Yes. Was it worth the effort? Absolutely. Not only am I handling the handling of two NIC configuration syntaxes OK, I look forward to when I can bring the 8.4 server up to 10.x for, among other things, imo the better syntax of the networking configuration in 10.x. imho, the root problem here is that an effort to implement a single feature improvement (multi-threading) has caused the FreeBSD version of pf to apparently reach a near-unmaintainable position in the FreeBSD community because improvements from OpenBSD can no longer be ported over easily. FreeBSD's pf has been put in a virtual isolation chamber due to the multi-threaded enhancement. Was it worth it? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 14:16:14 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 325C1FB6 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:16:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-f179.google.com (mail-wi0-f179.google.com [209.85.212.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBD4E2707 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f179.google.com with SMTP id f8so2857407wiw.12 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 07:16:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=H9+aICbJ8FU9+xCwiNofIKUU6ScXHgU2aW6uSMDRWFc=; b=RAjLrZ1Wh1wzMlVKhSv/LwGjmn75odFmdC7JdhdbNFor36aEvfiVozLRQSThPtMU3e JM3mhoFUr4VVskR0EKosjixl3xqXTbH2Mynw0DMqE7v9zKYuOR04vCXpOmRLspu5ZtDU FJEf2m71xkjH7xFGS3WXiCs1QwN+Z4t2KQV0kPIVvcv3DJE6UiQtkFNVBUzaTfyku6wY p/MmHU1mb1AQca9WXIzOlbidtI1SkmQ3zOGXZCsDPCS6MLw+1k2fwPkLtek56/Ilvioi 34w31QM0R63URpoahX4k5Kw/EfIhZBP1P4uKI3LLkWLDfCKFb177m6zRhriT6JTeJBlE yJrw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkO8IVKCKqurdk/x2i2v/MJBaFx6SZxYAms4M0D/wTIeV8HbeZCPKnElfnoEvjBb4sz7/IV X-Received: by 10.194.189.50 with SMTP id gf18mr13870619wjc.13.1405865766565; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 07:16:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.91.233 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 07:15:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> From: Maxim Khitrov Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:15:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? To: FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:16:14 -0000 On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Lars Engels wrote: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: >> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two versions of >> pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It confuses people, >> which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide an conquer for other >> platforms. I really like the idea of the openpf version, that has been >> mentioned in this thread. It would be awesome if it ended up as a supported >> linux thing as well, so the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess >> thats just an unrealistic dream > > And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. > No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. Gleb believes that the majority of FreeBSD users don't want the updated syntax, among other changes, from the more recent pf versions. Developers who share his opinion are not going to volunteer to do the work. This discussion is about showing this belief to be wrong, which is the first step in the process. In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting process easier. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 14:31:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCAA28A5; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:31:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x22b.google.com (mail-we0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 467702926; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:31:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f171.google.com with SMTP id p10so6500942wes.2 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 07:31:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=vxM8Jpa2WdBDQFVHOvEWjyEqGRcI1E8PIBFd3cZhIQ8=; b=to9Vy911tTvRm4QjwLHLWipq9PQi8JvQq69dQQuS6Hay3dem7nlNNU8pBM583lWSsU 4CeXjchMtrZSHk7IkeJ6jRVW7pI66fpC6ug6i6AZ3Kz8DnEQgvmI+1MLtCepzm0Tp4Hu Jg4dgfc82vHv6q9MeMCwpIwpdFogKbc5u4ATJVyboAXd1Zg51xVyqV6gU/2Kp3FWbaXP IM9DlPWB1cgffVgavjwUUfQqdEVRcP/d/egOtJrkAAPu0RbQoJl/RRrnXMz6ixktCvFE KBhMmhVn574rcxqKm/CERvA0l+1th21wYs4M7pdrVpRkUzd8wk6SjHte/eOCiFKPls2x +ZZA== X-Received: by 10.194.158.226 with SMTP id wx2mr13807163wjb.107.1405866704516; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 07:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n8sm30625852wia.19.2014.07.20.07.31.42 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 07:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:31:41 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Maxim Khitrov Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Message-ID: <20140720143140.GF26778@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vKFfOv5t3oGVpiF+" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:31:47 -0000 --vKFfOv5t3oGVpiF+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 10:15:36AM -0400, Maxim Khitrov wrote: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Lars Engels wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: > >> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two version= s of > >> pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It confuses people, > >> which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide an conquer for other > >> platforms. I really like the idea of the openpf version, that has been > >> mentioned in this thread. It would be awesome if it ended up as a supp= orted > >> linux thing as well, so the world could be rid of iptables. However i = guess > >> thats just an unrealistic dream > > > > And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. > > No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. >=20 > Gleb believes that the majority of FreeBSD users don't want the > updated syntax, among other changes, from the more recent pf versions. > Developers who share his opinion are not going to volunteer to do the > work. This discussion is about showing this belief to be wrong, which > is the first step in the process. >=20 > In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the > SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to > follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to > reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done > upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. > Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time > improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD > developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting > process easier. smp is not the only change we did, if you forget about it you will also get= into other co plication to sync from openbsd Bapt --vKFfOv5t3oGVpiF+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlPL0swACgkQ8kTtMUmk6EwBswCgqZUTDayXXQbDxMeRDeluVpFF lNcAn2Dpf2owQxkY4LO9vrXANQ9luA+u =I8MY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vKFfOv5t3oGVpiF+-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 12:39:23 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 391CFA7; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:39:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [217.69.76.211]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCE1D205A; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:39:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (mail.0x20.net [IPv6:2001:aa8:fffb:1::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.0x20.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B20A6A6004; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:39:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from e-new.0x20.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6KCdIVR073823; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:39:18 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars@e-new.0x20.net) Received: (from lars@localhost) by e-new.0x20.net (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id s6KCdGLL072493; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:39:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from lars) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:39:16 +0200 From: Lars Engels To: krad Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Message-ID: <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> Mail-Followup-To: Lars Engels , krad , Stephen Hurd , FreeBSD Mailing List , Gerrit =?utf-8?B?S8O8aG4=?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Gleb Smirnoff , Matt Bettinger References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AMNVzrRY61gDOMe/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 7.4 X-Operation-System: FreeBSD 8.4-RELEASE-p4 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:21:43 +0000 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Stephen Hurd , Gleb Smirnoff , Gerrit =?utf-8?B?S8O8aG4=?= , FreeBSD Mailing List , Matt Bettinger X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:39:23 -0000 --AMNVzrRY61gDOMe/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: > all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two versions of > pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It confuses people, > which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide an conquer for other > platforms. I really like the idea of the openpf version, that has been > mentioned in this thread. It would be awesome if it ended up as a supported > linux thing as well, so the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess > thats just an unrealistic dream And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. --AMNVzrRY61gDOMe/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (FreeBSD) iQF8BAEBCgBmBQJTy7h0XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ4RjQwMDE3RTRERjUzMTI1N0FGRTUxNDlF NTRDQjM3RDNBMDg5RDZEAAoJEOVMs306CJ1tcUAH/jgTS6/mNxC710EzLKEHGOfi qpAn3FG+f6MylvzE8/8LLf0mpbuGKxQYptaBlQoTjl0JCWdTIzmto/kWnWoyEtLP MmTtvDN3OfRv813KKgG83OpZ/4N39+zWCcco5Z/kCE9iF5AZPcVWHTxGsq6zBdFm nlKChzlYPSrSCaqldj2zRtf4N+JuOdoOYh3Mp9+CzdbmHtKOPq4/uwgyR0MfCQzK GpbatNbcXR5syjOMMzZVktOfbpNU3IjHFMCDo5IGy5ZB7gTBZdS7zALfMm0+34Vb EEyEFOx/1KbcSTbgKvdLf3JTYEeiFsb2lY8JL6XOH92IK/tWCGVpUK+4H2UgjIw= =xaNd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AMNVzrRY61gDOMe/-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 15:38:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2ED0E339; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:38:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host64.kissl.de (host64.kissl.de [213.239.241.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01E32ECE; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:38:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host64.kissl.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B025A5A6189; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:38:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at host64.kissl.de Received: from host64.kissl.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (host64.kissl.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kRaN-ieantYU; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:38:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.11] (95-91-220-47-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.220.47]) (Authenticated sender: web104p1) by host64.kissl.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BBB93A5A6169; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:38:24 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Franco Fichtner In-Reply-To: <201407200939020335.0017641F@smtp.24cl.home> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:38:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <788274E2-7D66-45D9-89F6-81E8C2615D14@lastsummer.de> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> <201407200939020335.0017641F@smtp.24cl.home> To: "Mike." X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:38:33 -0000 On 20 Jul 2014, at 15:39, Mike. wrote: > imho, the root problem here is that an effort to implement a single > feature improvement (multi-threading) has caused the FreeBSD version > of pf to apparently reach a near-unmaintainable position in the > FreeBSD community because improvements from OpenBSD can no longer be > ported over easily. FreeBSD's pf has been put in a virtual > isolation chamber due to the multi-threaded enhancement. > > Was it worth it? Yes. This happened *three times* in BSD land now. How much more proof does it take to make that clear? FWIW, I'm still volunteering, but I think the direction this discussion is going is that there is no clear direction, which makes this a tad less effective than it could be. ;) Cheers, Franco From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 16:31:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A37A9C53; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:31:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from oneyou.mcmli.com (oneyou.mcmli.com [IPv6:2001:470:1d:8da::100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "oneyou.mcmli.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E91223E8; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:31:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sentry.24cl.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:558:6017:a2:a860:3073:4c46:6ac9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "sentry.24cl.com", Issuer "Mike's Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by oneyou.mcmli.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3hGWlm6bnzz1DRn; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BigBloat (bigbloat.24cl.home [10.20.1.4]) by sentry.24cl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hGWll0r1pz1Bn8; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <201407201230590265.00B479C4@smtp.24cl.home> In-Reply-To: <788274E2-7D66-45D9-89F6-81E8C2615D14@lastsummer.de> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> <201407200939020335.0017641F@smtp.24cl.home> <788274E2-7D66-45D9-89F6-81E8C2615D14@lastsummer.de> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:30:59 -0400 From: "Mike." To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:31:04 -0000 On 7/20/2014 at 5:38 PM Franco Fichtner wrote: |On 20 Jul 2014, at 15:39, Mike. wrote: | |> imho, the root problem here is that an effort to implement a single |> feature improvement (multi-threading) has caused the FreeBSD version |> of pf to apparently reach a near-unmaintainable position in the |> FreeBSD community because improvements from OpenBSD can no longer be |> ported over easily. FreeBSD's pf has been put in a virtual |> isolation chamber due to the multi-threaded enhancement. |> |> Was it worth it? | |Yes. This happened *three times* in BSD land now. How much more |proof does it take to make that clear? |[snip] ============= In this instance, more proof would consist of pf development not wallowing in inactivity. imo, tactical changes were implemented in pf without the strategic negative consequences affecting the decision process guiding the implementation of those tactical features. And that's backwards. Strategies direct tactics, not vice versa. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 17:41:44 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FAFE52E; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:41:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x22d.google.com (mail-qg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2552A2A20; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:41:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id f51so4671185qge.32 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:41:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type; bh=5EfLr72leaFUWVVnmlnrdgolJC/XAVrKYN1/thLF+5Y=; b=AJyvi20Py8kyGyqOnVXTdC7a3gBImEqOFH1O8hwAAbSe+PBj+ec7W84aB7iN7f3/6x EcsJC4o8+juEy5AarHsX6hnnWnqWwUG+yaY2sWqgOIf2uJwGH7fJ8elHONZDYsPaC7lK akWriI21SxBGTxzyqG2IlWBe5HEULZgeghFJQzJZrBOSFxpwxj824pk3JruMtBZAWtrw 1Bk2qzMLIngCkjd7b7xJuQbDHWKYOmb++0taYWYlJkC/rVUZ/yA5CBRVaTajZ1gUz4m9 zOeS8sTd2vF9RRmHnYBrnmQ6+jRkucQd4nP4XlXbf0sw6Az49goFlDRqfurcQNdzW93c QUdg== X-Received: by 10.224.120.68 with SMTP id c4mr32978794qar.17.1405878100735; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kan ([2601:6:6780:780:226:18ff:fe00:232e]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w15sm5535761qay.34.2014.07.20.10.41.39 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:41:33 -0400 From: Alexander Kabaev To: Maxim Khitrov Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Message-ID: <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> In-Reply-To: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Sig_/++vyFsvIt9zzPRWKWP8QWOz"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:41:44 -0000 --Sig_/++vyFsvIt9zzPRWKWP8QWOz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:15:36 -0400 Maxim Khitrov wrote: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Lars Engels > wrote: > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: > >> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two > >> versions of pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It > >> confuses people, which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide > >> an conquer for other platforms. I really like the idea of the > >> openpf version, that has been mentioned in this thread. It would > >> be awesome if it ended up as a supported linux thing as well, so > >> the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess thats just an > >> unrealistic dream > > > > And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the > > work. No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. >=20 > Gleb believes that the majority of FreeBSD users don't want the > updated syntax, among other changes, from the more recent pf versions. > Developers who share his opinion are not going to volunteer to do the > work. This discussion is about showing this belief to be wrong, which > is the first step in the process. >=20 > In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the > SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to > follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to > reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done > upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. > Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time > improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD > developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting > process easier. I am one person whose opinion Gleb got completely right - I could not care less about new syntax nor about how close or how far are we from OpenBSD, as long as pf works for my purposes and it does. This far into the thread and somebody has yet to provide a comprehensive list of the benefits that we allegedly miss, or to come up with the real benchmark result to substantiate the performance claims. Focusing on disproving anything Gleb might be believing in on the matter, while an interesting undertaking, does nothing to give you new pf you supposedly want. Doing the work and bringing it all the way to will completeness for commit - does.=20 It was stated repeatedly by multiple people that FreeBSD's network stack is way too different from OpenBSD, we support features OpenBSD doesn't and vice versa, vimage is a good example, which throws a giant wrench into the plan of following OpenBSD 'as closely as possible', even as the expense of throwing away all of the SMP work done in pf to date. --=20 Alexander Kabaev --Sig_/++vyFsvIt9zzPRWKWP8QWOz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iD8DBQFTy/9SQ6z1jMm+XZYRAn0GAKDXvnHXIr64YIDshctzEfJSgV0k6gCeKgJy 7C0eBgBVqfRkkMiSxw4rP6U= =yly+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/++vyFsvIt9zzPRWKWP8QWOz-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 18:12:37 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CED0CF22 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:12:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 773152CE9 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:12:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6KICTJf086219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:12:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6KICSoV086216; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:12:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:12:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Doug Hardie Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 In-Reply-To: <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> Message-ID: References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:12:29 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:12:37 -0000 On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: > > On 19 July 2014, at 05:27, Warren Block wrote: > >> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >> >>> On 18 July 2014, at 16:01, Warren Block wrote: >>>> It's not necessary to delete the source every time. But /usr/src should be empty before the initial svn checkout, or there will be files in there that are unmanaged and can cause problems. The Subversion instructions mention this. (Or at least some of them do, we have a fair amount of similar sections in different chapters and sections that need to be combined.) >>>> >>> >>> I didn't find any mention of that in the manual. >> >> There is one here: >> >> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/svn.html#svn-usage >> > > Yes there is, now that I understand it. For those who know - its all there. For those who don't, its not obvious. The focus of the manual should be different from the man pages. I have reworked that warning to make it more clear. Is there another place that this should be noted? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 18:13:01 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1F75FC9 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:13:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEE782CFF for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:13:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-69-249.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.69.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 999D227610; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:12:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s6KICp7g002404; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:12:51 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:12:51 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Alexander Kabaev Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Message-Id: <20140720201251.3bdd2226.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:13:02 -0000 On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:41:33 -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > It was stated repeatedly by multiple people that FreeBSD's network > stack is way too different from OpenBSD, we support features > OpenBSD doesn't and vice versa, vimage is a good example, which throws a > giant wrench into the plan of following OpenBSD 'as closely as > possible', even as the expense of throwing away all of the SMP work > done in pf to date. The difference between FreeBSD's and OpenBSD's network stack is also a problem that you can hardly compensate by maintaining two versions of pf, one provided with the system, one available via ports (as FreeBSD 10 did with unbound / bind), and you also would have to decide which version ("old" or "new") goes with the OS and which comes from ports. Of course following a "moving target" is much easier to do with ports (higher frequency of changes is possible) than with an OS component, and I should emphasize OS _core_ component, as pf is _very_ tightly integrated with kernel and OS mechanisms. Learning a new syntax is the smallest problem here, and BSD folks (as UNIX people in general) have a great reputation of being able to learn new things, evaluate them, and use them as needed, in comparison to those poor guys over in MICROS~1 land... ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 18:36:08 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25BEE7C5 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:36:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (mail-la0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C97F2ED6 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:36:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id pv20so3693947lab.1 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:36:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=l9Nc958j31MhVOvMpySG0mocGpSQ4SUzgL1pAUO67K4=; b=aFZfNdM+YpcppBDvSWPTJ7xWlH/VlGOzfblr4pDAWj/I1a+dDI6RPs4YxbAqVia2i9 P93M632458xihHVyUC2EPhRb9ksz4vnIJvfwsrryDzo6Btt17TxnkR+2gr6iB6Epufbx mjdbhpxyA6wSOjbK5D3At/1fLzQYGvjJwTCZEqbsFFRxGuNSuKSGbpotBgU44R7riCpw /FdXaRpTIIu81As+TbOVANzAwmYkmpWNwhaUKRzA4i+H944vuFMTHtbha31Kz1BUjh3K KiL5wlGVyCfwkBdZvVn/H07ztGMDO7u41W4BlZhXclMh1I74YUltUhCDdFCwe7t+7Dk/ KGXg== X-Received: by 10.152.245.9 with SMTP id xk9mr5166763lac.80.1405881365274; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:36:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.131.233 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:35:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140720201251.3bdd2226.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> <20140720201251.3bdd2226.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Odhiambo Washington Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:35:25 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? To: User Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:36:08 -0000 On 20 July 2014 21:12, Polytropon wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:41:33 -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > > It was stated repeatedly by multiple people that FreeBSD's network > > stack is way too different from OpenBSD, we support features > > OpenBSD doesn't and vice versa, vimage is a good example, which throws a > > giant wrench into the plan of following OpenBSD 'as closely as > > possible', even as the expense of throwing away all of the SMP work > > done in pf to date. > > The difference between FreeBSD's and OpenBSD's network stack > is also a problem that you can hardly compensate by maintaining > two versions of pf, one provided with the system, one available > via ports (as FreeBSD 10 did with unbound / bind), and you also > would have to decide which version ("old" or "new") goes with > the OS and which comes from ports. Of course following a "moving > target" is much easier to do with ports (higher frequency of > changes is possible) than with an OS component, and I should > emphasize OS _core_ component, as pf is _very_ tightly integrated > with kernel and OS mechanisms. > > Learning a new syntax is the smallest problem here, and BSD folks > (as UNIX people in general) have a great reputation of being able > to learn new things, evaluate them, and use them as needed, in > comparison to those poor guys over in MICROS~1 land... ;-) > > So to summarize (probably): Someone needs to decide whether or not they want FreeBSD or OpenBSD when it comes to PF. It's a simple decision to make:) You draw a two-column table with FreeBSD and OpenBSD on each one, do your analysis and decide where to pledge your allegiance. Debate CLOSED! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 18:43:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3735CB7A; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8DD2FA0; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:43:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nber7.nber.org (nber7.nber.org [198.71.6.41]) by mail2.nber.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6KIZQtY029556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:35:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:35:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: Lars Engels Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? In-Reply-To: <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> Message-ID: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (LRH 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for Linux Mail Server 5.6.39/RELEASE, bases: 20140401 #7726142, check: 20140720 clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:20:17 +0000 Cc: krad , Stephen Hurd , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Gleb Smirnoff , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Gerrit_K=FChn?= , FreeBSD Mailing List , Matt Bettinger X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:43:03 -0000 On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Lars Engels wrote: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: >> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two versions of >> pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It confuses people, >> which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide an conquer for other >> platforms. I really like the idea of the openpf version, that has been >> mentioned in this thread. It would be awesome if it ended up as a supported >> linux thing as well, so the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess >> thats just an unrealistic dream > > And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. > No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. > No one with authority has yet said that "If an updated pf were available, would be welcomed". Rather they have said "An updated pf would not be suitable, as it would be incompatible with existing configuration files". If the latter is indeed the case, there is little incentive for anyone to go to the effort of porting the newer pf. After all, the reward for the work is chiefly in glory, and if there is to be no glory, the work is unlikely to be done. I do not have a horse in this race. Daniel Feenberg NBER From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 19:14:39 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6B24972; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:14:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x230.google.com (mail-we0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0588A2246; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:14:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f176.google.com with SMTP id q58so6634039wes.21 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:14:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HPaFv6TI2Ejx9fCGNN9VufSCyTkdujnY7LDyoTLrqvU=; b=jr3zza6ALEFxztiX6lwZmPBOosizTep5ih9x95EVczdUSWRrgDlNuVHU3IEx3ASUk2 MoP073mJKwXGObuO4mWuQXkcUNiw5D3G98h5t/k+kkf89Dg2ZCZVQiMJ9TSAAXDbkNJW oHQgkEyPHD6s7LW03poT5o+5+89g6XTT/jGTJAR5zgGK7h6iPipGO4zOxuqRjXE7yxp7 apW4Eitt34XVDiDhiNsq8PT6F0OCtjxNbG5mrsgAhFSYxbD4nJFu4Is1kgNNe3qI+j3U w8i7AjFdjhWcpw2Zf/wWQ6W8Y83d/UK89qvzmil7+oO45jBVwLyRNoJdm54h7CHeYmUG swfA== X-Received: by 10.194.243.200 with SMTP id xa8mr15596419wjc.97.1405883677067; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org (LCaen-151-92-21-48.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr. [217.128.200.48]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id l8sm31759661wje.15.2014.07.20.12.14.35 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Eric Masson Received: from srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEB08CF4D3; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:14:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at interne.associated-bears.org Received: from srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org ([127.0.0.1]) by srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org (srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xb0n0Jvaj4rc; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:14:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A1596CF129; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:14:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Eric Masson To: krad Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? In-Reply-To: (krad's message of "Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:18:54 +0100") References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (berkeley-unix) X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE-p8 amd64 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:14:31 +0200 Message-ID: <86fvhvrgfc.fsf@srvbsdfenssv.interne.associated-bears.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:32:08 +0000 Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Stephen Hurd , Gleb Smirnoff , Gerrit =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=FChn?= , FreeBSD Mailing List , Matt Bettinger X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:14:40 -0000 krad writes: Hi, > I really like the idea of the openpf version, that has been mentioned > in this thread. It would be nice but as it's been written in this thread, Open & Free internals are quite different beasts, goals are different on both platforms, so I doubt OpenPF will exist in the future. > It would be awesome if it ended up as a supported linux thing as well, > so the world could be rid of iptables. Linux world will get rid of iptables one of these days, nftables inclusion in mainline is a clear signal. I don't really like linux firewalling engines but projects like OpenWRT and Luci hide the command line hell in most cases, so I'm slowly retiring FreeBSD/pf handcrafted appliances in favor of OpenWRT boxes. ric Masson -- Bonjour je sais qu il existe un prog pour faire des cartes bancaires puis je l avoir par mail pas pour en fabriquer mais par curiosite merci a tous -+- LM In GNU : La clf pour fabriquer un neuneu enfin dvoile -+- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 21:40:58 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40B81F50; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from orthanc.ca (orthanc.ca [IPv6:2607:f2f8:abf8::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "orthanc.ca", Issuer "orthanc.ca CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F41782F2B; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:40:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.42.6] (d66-183-221-35.bchsia.telus.net [66.183.221.35]) (authenticated bits=0) by orthanc.ca (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6KLegEY060584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:40:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4B12DBBC-CA02-4A2A-B034-04B4192E48D3"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Lyndon Nerenberg In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:40:37 -0700 Message-Id: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> To: Daniel Feenberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=5.0 tests=RDNS_DYNAMIC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on orthanc.ca Cc: FreeBSD current , FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:40:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4B12DBBC-CA02-4A2A-B034-04B4192E48D3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jul 20, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > Rather they have said "An updated pf would not be > suitable, as it would be incompatible with existing configuration = files". A major FreeBSD version increment is allowed to break that level of = backwards compatibility. Nothing prevents this from being incorporated = into 11.x. The only real concern would be removing existing core functionality as = part of the update. For that you want to provide at least one major = release cycle for people up migrate. Comparing pf on my current OpenBSD = machines vs. the FreeBSD 10.x pf, that doesn't seem to be an issue. --lyndon --Apple-Mail=_4B12DBBC-CA02-4A2A-B034-04B4192E48D3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJTzDdVAAoJEG8PnXiV/JnUP7wP/iaHgRf29cfR4bHHATs4HR8J WW2BSKp4/SyoA7oMYvOnN8QF/IA3x30NRI93VBtxwUZbFbEETvKtb/Y2/E0kZVB4 UcC8PyZ8lr+kQQY+1voAAp6dvI0Fm6KEojitYEuPo6GXSjyhYJcz+3TlfBjFZT8r qP6XQJD4gb3tXlfdO9Qzcvyvaa2YCCF9qp8SmeM4ynYhTr0G0geT2rKnegm8hvXw 2JglUiisAIregxf6gnabxKoPj0pNiWCnTkKJxWUeA45j4Gz123Q7fnd0YTUl3L3w tMQg+Dt0U3cq9+ACr0Hpw5rRjtgEnkXZdvgK8fCx88wdts0VRJUdkP9JX0bi5SpV X5Tr5EC8QalkWDsZRc/lWwL/xH21F/heifqbasgpVyzcIARxCKqZuMbQaMwICZd3 wGIlt5GV4kjdOGLeqFxM7A7m/qinmhDBVfi3yhqVfOdfCYuDF4fcQ6QhhI9YZm9R KmJsaejKguBFOTjQu3sVopmBlxXTvS8I+TV44ih1zKZ7kNX8zKJSAO2JYwxVi0jD ZIafvDBTNZOrtz6QGGJh0f1SmplfajapYYlg6wPXjqhdeRLzGZH0/EfBFdFofuKe 38DC4aoUkyO7reeLECL6U1HvCLoGUmLqIt+uQviaxIkcNTxUZjaBQ0Zjz+0SwC1d eETuZZRLPOQTsZW0Fb8s =Wq6E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_4B12DBBC-CA02-4A2A-B034-04B4192E48D3-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 21:46:29 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C274C21E; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:46:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from home.opsec.eu (home.opsec.eu [IPv6:2001:14f8:200::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78C5E2F6E; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:46:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pi by home.opsec.eu with local (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1X8yw9-000NXE-8d; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:46:29 +0200 Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:46:29 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: Daniel Feenberg Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Message-ID: <20140720214629.GF197@home.opsec.eu> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:46:29 -0000 Hi! > > And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. > > No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. Franco Fichtner said he's interested in doing it. He probably needs funding. > No one with authority has yet said that "If an updated pf were available, > would be welcomed". Which person or group would you view as "authority" in this case ? -- pi@opsec.eu +49 171 3101372 6 years to go ! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 21:55:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72BD0549 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:55:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4337B2034 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:55:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (static-71-177-216-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [71.177.216.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6KLt3kl026953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:55:04 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> To: Warren Block X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:55:13 -0000 On 20 July 2014, at 11:12, Warren Block wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 19 July 2014, at 05:27, Warren Block wrote: >>=20 >>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On 18 July 2014, at 16:01, Warren Block wrote: >>>>> It's not necessary to delete the source every time. But /usr/src = should be empty before the initial svn checkout, or there will be files = in there that are unmanaged and can cause problems. The Subversion = instructions mention this. (Or at least some of them do, we have a fair = amount of similar sections in different chapters and sections that need = to be combined.) >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I didn't find any mention of that in the manual. >>>=20 >>> There is one here: >>>=20 >>> = http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/svn.html#svn-usa= ge >>>=20 >>=20 >> Yes there is, now that I understand it. For those who know - its all = there. For those who don't, its not obvious. The focus of the manual = should be different from the man pages. >=20 > I have reworked that warning to make it more clear. Is there another = place that this should be noted? >=20 Not that I saw. I only saw that note and thought it didn't apply to me. = Wrong again=85 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 22:02:22 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E09A92B for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:02:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E1DA2129 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:02:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6KM2J7l049690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:02:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6KM2JTN049687; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:02:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:02:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Doug Hardie Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 In-Reply-To: <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> Message-ID: References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:02:19 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:02:22 -0000 On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: > > On 20 July 2014, at 11:12, Warren Block wrote: > >> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >> >>> >>> On 19 July 2014, at 05:27, Warren Block wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 18 July 2014, at 16:01, Warren Block wrote: >>>>>> It's not necessary to delete the source every time. But /usr/src should be empty before the initial svn checkout, or there will be files in there that are unmanaged and can cause problems. The Subversion instructions mention this. (Or at least some of them do, we have a fair amount of similar sections in different chapters and sections that need to be combined.) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I didn't find any mention of that in the manual. >>>> >>>> There is one here: >>>> >>>> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/svn.html#svn-usage >>>> >>> >>> Yes there is, now that I understand it. For those who know - its all there. For those who don't, its not obvious. The focus of the manual should be different from the man pages. >> >> I have reworked that warning to make it more clear. Is there another place that this should be noted? >> > > Not that I saw. I only saw that note and thought it didn't apply to me. Wrong again? Is there anything else we can do to help make it more clear? I don't mean to put you on the spot, just that I've found these types of problems often can be used to make valuable improvements in the documentation. If you think of somewhere else it should be mentioned, or a better way to explain it, please let me or the freebsd-doc mailing list know. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 22:26:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAB4641C; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:26:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail2.nber.org (mail2.nber.org [198.71.6.79]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A0A2308; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:26:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sas1.nber.org (sas1.nber.org [198.71.6.185]) by mail2.nber.org (8.14.8/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6KMQ4tX000221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:26:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from feenberg@nber.org) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:26:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Feenberg To: Kurt Jaeger Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? In-Reply-To: <20140720214629.GF197@home.opsec.eu> Message-ID: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720214629.GF197@home.opsec.eu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (LRH 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for Linux Mail Server 5.6.39/RELEASE, bases: 20140401 #7726142, check: 20140720 clean Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:26:07 -0000 On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Kurt Jaeger wrote: > Hi! > >>> And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. >>> No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. > > Franco Fichtner said he's interested in doing it. He probably > needs funding. > >> No one with authority has yet said that "If an updated pf were available, >> would be welcomed". > > Which person or group would you view as "authority" in this case ? > I am not privy to the inner workings of the project, but surely a decision of this importance would come to the attention of the core team, who are listed at: http://www.freebsd.org/administration.html#t-core A port of OpenBSD PF may be quite impractical or undesirable- I have no idea. However, if all potential contributions are viewed as criticism to be refuted, it will damage the ability of the project to attract contributors. Rather than telling a potential contributor that their efforts will never be included in the official distribution it would be more supportive of the project to say that a port of PF would be welcome as a port, but might have difficulty displacing current offering. That doesn't promise anything, but encourages involvement, if indeed involvement is desired. Daniel Feenberg > -- > pi@opsec.eu +49 171 3101372 6 years to go ! > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 22:30:29 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7800E54B; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:30:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x236.google.com (mail-qg0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 202042349; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:30:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f54.google.com with SMTP id z60so4781416qgd.13 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:30:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=x/p1YSxT0p6R/MUN1QDy7merCrTa1TDx3hY9G4OuZ7g=; b=OtkpczV3826nRpeikjMd7CIj5v+6IkN8gjeI0wjVM2+WPHo0DmtjJCBUhdEInOlLgA Cz8vUHEGxnwRggUpSKIXxKrBypI3SR7ixFBETT96KXu6SwErAVNhTZe7atgQmBSMmfFA B4wkIvLsxd0JBlFW8YvST5QoqUWWA7GpduKwSlbGPkKW5rLJCLN94PndRFZVPfflIXrK pyFMiIvkzk9MOqGFPQVJWRUrnYZUSIdIYX8Wo4ZOQsM5fd7EjwXFlg/KuTWTKJPo/7Jr JcKiYqfy0OSAffY3dfAGc0ZB5Ui5eTO9IjLetVCmzSAAFWlAObOpikjk0DfCiR6UdanE SsHQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.93.161 with SMTP id d30mr32070930qge.53.1405895427608; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.1.6 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:30:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720214629.GF197@home.opsec.eu> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 15:30:27 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: q4dOmS9WWAphPWLQZu-qGK70R-s Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Adrian Chadd To: Daniel Feenberg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Kurt Jaeger , FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-current X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:30:29 -0000 Noone needs to say "you can do X." You can just fork freebsd in whatever form you want, update to the latest github and work to eventually get it included. Or you could treat it as an entirely external-from-system plugin module that you compile up - the packet filter hooks API lets you do this relatively nicely nowdays. There's multiple ways to do this. No-one needs to ask permission. Someone just has to do it. So if you want to do it, say so, and please feel free to canvas for donations / funding / whatever you need to keep up whatever you need to get it done. You don't need permission. Don't worry about how to get it into the tree when you're done. Just do it. -a On 20 July 2014 15:26, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > > > On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Kurt Jaeger wrote: > >> Hi! >> >>>> And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. >>>> No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. >> >> >> Franco Fichtner said he's interested in doing it. He probably >> needs funding. >> >>> No one with authority has yet said that "If an updated pf were available, >>> would be welcomed". >> >> >> Which person or group would you view as "authority" in this case ? >> > > I am not privy to the inner workings of the project, but surely a > decision of this importance would come to the attention of the > core team, who are listed at: > > http://www.freebsd.org/administration.html#t-core > > A port of OpenBSD PF may be quite impractical or undesirable- I have no > idea. However, if all potential contributions are viewed as criticism to be > refuted, it will damage the ability of the project to attract contributors. > Rather than telling a potential contributor that their efforts will never be > included in the official distribution it would be more supportive of the > project to say that a port of PF would be welcome as a port, but might have > difficulty displacing current offering. That doesn't promise anything, but > encourages involvement, if indeed involvement is desired. > > Daniel Feenberg > > >> -- >> pi@opsec.eu +49 171 3101372 6 years to >> go ! >> > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 23:18:10 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E834F56 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:18:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A61127D0 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:18:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (static-71-177-216-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [71.177.216.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6KNI6f4029015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:18:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:18:06 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> To: Warren Block X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:18:10 -0000 On 20 July 2014, at 15:02, Warren Block wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 20 July 2014, at 11:12, Warren Block wrote: >>=20 >>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 19 July 2014, at 05:27, Warren Block wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 18 July 2014, at 16:01, Warren Block = wrote: >>>>>>> It's not necessary to delete the source every time. But = /usr/src should be empty before the initial svn checkout, or there will = be files in there that are unmanaged and can cause problems. The = Subversion instructions mention this. (Or at least some of them do, we = have a fair amount of similar sections in different chapters and = sections that need to be combined.) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I didn't find any mention of that in the manual. >>>>>=20 >>>>> There is one here: >>>>>=20 >>>>> = http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/svn.html#svn-usa= ge >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Yes there is, now that I understand it. For those who know - its = all there. For those who don't, its not obvious. The focus of the = manual should be different from the man pages. >>>=20 >>> I have reworked that warning to make it more clear. Is there = another place that this should be noted? >>>=20 >>=20 >> Not that I saw. I only saw that note and thought it didn't apply to = me. Wrong again? >=20 > Is there anything else we can do to help make it more clear? I don't = mean to put you on the spot, just that I've found these types of = problems often can be used to make valuable improvements in the = documentation. If you think of somewhere else it should be mentioned, = or a better way to explain it, please let me or the freebsd-doc mailing = list know. >=20 I would appreciate either examples or instructions with examples on how = to setup and properly update a system using svn. Those are the most = common things admins do if they are not involved in the development of = FreeBSD. There used to be some good info on that in the handbook back = when we used cvsup. Think more tutorial and less man page constructs. = If I knew enough about the process, I'd try writing it, but so far most = of the things I have tried have not worked. Only one of the several = systems I have tried to update to use svn and pkg still works. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 23:27:31 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D717515; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:27:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-x236.google.com (mail-oa0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0316628A9; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:27:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n16so6395493oag.13 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=uYl+FsumPs9QUu1rP8bkpanu3czI3AK6HVC/roYC9AY=; b=QE8FIpFcNE47riSHr7hA3BH8ZeDf42Sldjp0k848j2o2gWUWAb+RrpYBKY2vc37ym5 vlPWTv/HiPaZOD6/lABnZgySZzaYlUCLtyTl152WobY+fc/2S9AeluZfa7Tzsqky7w+0 r8yZWA85T55YUB0gc0k2rBhWjLm8DN05x9J4r4THx1s3C+E2fl5Ch9tdtE0oVAJesz1w 0CT5kzi0lHMxh8f4mmf13x2gu5wJhX5beY0dXoqx0JvFN8aP24Tewywdw8vmnbsRTQ5g 71ibH63INX7/1iDUDQmPbMTsbDJdwqTZPqSeEvRJtQ0fOpq6LCYdU4XaGII6vOVKsyVw XKdQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.133.69 with SMTP id pa5mr32046504obb.2.1405898850177; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.170.39 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 16:27:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:27:30 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Andreas Nilsson To: Alexander Kabaev Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: Maxim Khitrov , Current FreeBSD , FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:27:31 -0000 On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:15:36 -0400 > Maxim Khitrov wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Lars Engels > > wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: > > >> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two > > >> versions of pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It > > >> confuses people, which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide > > >> an conquer for other platforms. I really like the idea of the > > >> openpf version, that has been mentioned in this thread. It would > > >> be awesome if it ended up as a supported linux thing as well, so > > >> the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess thats just an > > >> unrealistic dream > > > > > > And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the > > > work. No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. > > > > Gleb believes that the majority of FreeBSD users don't want the > > updated syntax, among other changes, from the more recent pf versions. > > Developers who share his opinion are not going to volunteer to do the > > work. This discussion is about showing this belief to be wrong, which > > is the first step in the process. > > > > In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the > > SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to > > follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to > > reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done > > upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. > > Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time > > improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD > > developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting > > process easier. > > I am one person whose opinion Gleb got completely right - I could not > care less about new syntax nor about how close or how far are we from > OpenBSD, as long as pf works for my purposes and it does. This far > into the thread and somebody has yet to provide a comprehensive list of > the benefits that we allegedly miss, or to come up with the real > benchmark result to substantiate the performance claims. > > Focusing on disproving anything Gleb might be believing in on the > matter, while an interesting undertaking, does nothing to give you new > pf you supposedly want. Doing the work and bringing it all the way to > will completeness for commit - does. > > It was stated repeatedly by multiple people that FreeBSD's network > stack is way too different from OpenBSD, we support features > OpenBSD doesn't and vice versa, vimage is a good example, which throws a > giant wrench into the plan of following OpenBSD 'as closely as > possible', even as the expense of throwing away all of the SMP work > done in pf to date. > I like vimage, don't get me wrong, but it also seems to have lost traction. If vimage is the only thing holding a pf import back there ought to be some discussion about which is a priority. Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in freebsd, like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. /A From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 00:54:49 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C36DCDB for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 00:54:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4E762F70 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 00:54:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6L0sk7Y091580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:54:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6L0sgu8091569; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:54:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:54:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Doug Hardie Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 00:54:49 -0000 On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >> Is there anything else we can do to help make it more clear? I don't >> mean to put you on the spot, just that I've found these types of >> problems often can be used to make valuable improvements in the >> documentation. If you think of somewhere else it should be >> mentioned, or a better way to explain it, please let me or the >> freebsd-doc mailing list know. >> > > I would appreciate either examples or instructions with examples on > how to setup and properly update a system using svn. Those are the > most common things admins do if they are not involved in the > development of FreeBSD. There used to be some good info on that in > the handbook back when we used cvsup. Think more tutorial and less > man page constructs. If I knew enough about the process, I'd try > writing it, but so far most of the things I have tried have not > worked. Only one of the several systems I have tried to update to use > svn and pkg still works. pkg is not involved. I don't use binary packages, so someone else can address that. The problem with exact Subversion examples is there are numerous repositories and mirrors, so it's a factorial combination. And we (or at least, I) have found that giving specific examples means people will use those examples verbatim, even if there is a warning not to do so. So, keeping that in mind... Check out source for 10-stable from the western US mirror, first time only: # rm -rf /usr/src # svn checkout https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 The first time, Subversion will ask to accept a security certificate fingerprint. These are shown in the Handbook Subversion appendix. To update that source later: # svn up /usr/src That's it. The process for ports is identical, just a different repository: # rm -rf /usr/ports # svn checkout https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/ports/head /usr/ports And then update periodically: # svn up /usr/ports The desire to avoid that repetition is why there is a generic Subversion appendix in the Handbook. Still, we have a lot of repetition of Subversion instructions elsewhere. There's a section in the Handbook. There's another in the Committer's Guide. There's another in the FDP Primer. Hence my idea to factor all that out and make our own Subversion for FreeBSD book. My outline for it already has separate sections for end-user usage for ports, source, and docs. However, it is one of many projects on the list. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 01:29:00 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7615A247 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:29:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zoom.lafn.org (zoom.lafn.org [108.92.93.123]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D2C821C9 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:28:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (static-71-177-216-148.lsanca.fios.verizon.net [71.177.216.148]) (authenticated bits=0) by zoom.lafn.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6L1SuQR032899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:28:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:28:55 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> To: Warren Block X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98 at zoom.lafn.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:29:00 -0000 On 20 July 2014, at 17:54, Warren Block wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: >=20 >>> Is there anything else we can do to help make it more clear? I = don't mean to put you on the spot, just that I've found these types of = problems often can be used to make valuable improvements in the = documentation. If you think of somewhere else it should be mentioned, = or a better way to explain it, please let me or the freebsd-doc mailing = list know. >>>=20 >>=20 >> I would appreciate either examples or instructions with examples on = how to setup and properly update a system using svn. Those are the most = common things admins do if they are not involved in the development of = FreeBSD. There used to be some good info on that in the handbook back = when we used cvsup. Think more tutorial and less man page constructs. = If I knew enough about the process, I'd try writing it, but so far most = of the things I have tried have not worked. Only one of the several = systems I have tried to update to use svn and pkg still works. >=20 > pkg is not involved. I don't use binary packages, so someone else can = address that. >=20 > The problem with exact Subversion examples is there are numerous = repositories and mirrors, so it's a factorial combination. And we (or = at least, I) have found that giving specific examples means people will = use those examples verbatim, even if there is a warning not to do so. >=20 > So, keeping that in mind... >=20 > Check out source for 10-stable from the western US mirror, first time > only: >=20 > # rm -rf /usr/src > # svn checkout https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 >=20 > The first time, Subversion will ask to accept a security certificate > fingerprint. These are shown in the Handbook Subversion appendix. >=20 > To update that source later: > # svn up /usr/src >=20 > That's it. The process for ports is identical, just a different = repository: >=20 > # rm -rf /usr/ports > # svn checkout https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/ports/head /usr/ports >=20 > And then update periodically: > # svn up /usr/ports >=20 >=20 > The desire to avoid that repetition is why there is a generic = Subversion appendix in the Handbook. Still, we have a lot of repetition = of Subversion instructions elsewhere. There's a section in the = Handbook. There's another in the Committer's Guide. There's another in = the FDP Primer. Hence my idea to factor all that out and make our own = Subversion for FreeBSD book. My outline for it already has separate = sections for end-user usage for ports, source, and docs. However, it is = one of many projects on the list. >=20 I brought up pkg because both it and svn were introduced at about the = same time. Thus completely breaking the model we have used for = maintaining systems for over 10 years. Its been a bit difficult. On the documentation, the above appears fine. I would include examples = on how to upgrade OS to new version. I don't think I would remember the = commands I used earlier, especially as I try to keep upgrades to once a = year. System downtime is a real hassle for my users. I would not = recommend putting that in a separate document though. The handbook = should have it all. I have never heard of the Committer's Guide or the = FDP Primer. I've never seen a reference to them before and sure would = not have check there. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jul 20 22:01:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2AD17C0; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:01:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail101c7.megamailservers.com (mail731.megamailservers.com [69.49.98.41]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A101D209E; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:01:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Authenticated-User: hurds.sasktel.net Received: from [192.168.0.33] (ip70-187-145-241.oc.oc.cox.net [70.187.145.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail101c7.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id s6KLfTfu028326; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:41:32 -0400 Message-ID: <53CC3789.8060902@sasktel.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:41:29 -0700 From: Stephen Hurd User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 SeaMonkey/2.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: krad Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6.1_pre20140112 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A02020A.53CC378C.011E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.1 cv=McNV5fPf c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=qWhSLQ/2FgUpSQgLv9E1tw==:117 a=qWhSLQ/2FgUpSQgLv9E1tw==:17 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=BDKbP5mgAAAA:8 a=zNQZm9IoAq8A:10 a=cQ5pcHtl6RgA:10 a=YxfxW3ofkq8A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=uhPMnebkAAAA:8 a=ULDmNEh5usy-Y3qWiaUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:56:21 +0000 Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , =?UTF-8?B?R2Vycml0?= =?UTF-8?B?IEvDvGhu?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Gleb Smirnoff , Matt Bettinger X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:01:02 -0000 krad wrote: > all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two > versions of pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It > confuses people, which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide an > conquer for other platforms. I really like the idea of the openpf > version, that has been mentioned in this thread. It would be awesome > if it ended up as a supported linux thing as well, so the world could > be rid of iptables. However i guess thats just an unrealistic dream No, the point was that matching OpenBSDs pf syntax for the sake of the Google results isn't a valid reason to change it. I'm not saying there aren't any valid reasons, just that useless search results isn't one of them. As for my opinion of the rule format changing, I'm fine with it as long as it happens on a major version release (ie: 11.0) and is documented. If I want to use the old pf, I'll use an old FreeBSD. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 02:06:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67E05A1F for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:06:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C16D2501 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:06:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6L26nTR009246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6L26mxx009243; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:06:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Doug Hardie Subject: Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Andrew Berg , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 02:06:55 -0000 On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote: > On 20 July 2014, at 17:54, Warren Block wrote: >> The desire to avoid that repetition is why there is a generic >> Subversion appendix in the Handbook. Still, we have a lot of >> repetition of Subversion instructions elsewhere. There's a section >> in the Handbook. There's another in the Committer's Guide. There's >> another in the FDP Primer. Hence my idea to factor all that out and >> make our own Subversion for FreeBSD book. My outline for it already >> has separate sections for end-user usage for ports, source, and docs. >> However, it is one of many projects on the list. > > I brought up pkg because both it and svn were introduced at about the > same time. Thus completely breaking the model we have used for > maintaining systems for over 10 years. Its been a bit difficult. Change is always difficult. Subversion is easier to use than CVS, at least. > On the documentation, the above appears fine. I would include > examples on how to upgrade OS to new version. That is just a matter of which directory is checked out. 10-stable: https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 9-stable: https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/base/stable/9 10.0-release+patches: https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/base/releng/10.0 9.3-release+patches: https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/base/releng/9.3 Of course, /usr/src should again be cleared before checking out a different version. > I don't think I would remember the commands I used earlier, especially > as I try to keep upgrades to once a year. System downtime is a real > hassle for my users. I would not recommend putting that in a separate > document though. The handbook should have it all. I have never heard > of the Committer's Guide or the FDP Primer. I've never seen a > reference to them before and sure would not have check there. The Handbook and other books would reference it with text linked to the appropriate sections in the Subversion book. This would allow eliminating conflicting information and redundancy while at the same time giving more detail. We already do this with other references. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 03:16:29 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EC49A79; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:16:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps1.elischer.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F5912BAF; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:16:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Julian-MBP3.local (ppp121-45-250-191.lns20.per2.internode.on.net [121.45.250.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6L3Fq9r086717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:15:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <53CC85E2.1030606@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:15:46 +0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Darren Pilgrim , Franco Fichtner , "Kristian K. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> In-Reply-To: <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:16:29 -0000 On 7/20/14, 12:36 PM, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > > > The vast majority of people don't know pf is outdated and broken on > FreeBSD because they don't know what they're missing and likely > aren't using IPv6 yet. s/IPv6/pf/ Most people I talk to just use ipfw and couldn't care whether pf lives or dies. They have simple requirements and almost any filter would suffice. I haven't found anything I'd want to use pf for that ipfw doesn't allow me to do. There are things pf does that ipfw doesn't... I just never want them.. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 03:24:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74878CDD; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps1.elischer.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F2622C72; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:24:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Julian-MBP3.local (ppp121-45-250-191.lns20.per2.internode.on.net [121.45.250.191]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6L3O83U086773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:24:10 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <53CC87D2.1000601@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:24:02 +0800 From: Julian Elischer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andreas Nilsson , Alexander Kabaev Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Maxim Khitrov , Current FreeBSD , FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:24:13 -0000 On 7/21/14, 7:27 AM, Andreas Nilsson wrote: > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > >> On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:15:36 -0400 >> Maxim Khitrov wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Lars Engels >>> wrote: >>>> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: >>>>> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two >>>>> versions of pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It >>>>> confuses people, which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide >>>>> an conquer for other platforms. I really like the idea of the >>>>> openpf version, that has been mentioned in this thread. It would >>>>> be awesome if it ended up as a supported linux thing as well, so >>>>> the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess thats just an >>>>> unrealistic dream >>>> And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the >>>> work. No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. >>> Gleb believes that the majority of FreeBSD users don't want the >>> updated syntax, among other changes, from the more recent pf versions. >>> Developers who share his opinion are not going to volunteer to do the >>> work. This discussion is about showing this belief to be wrong, which >>> is the first step in the process. >>> >>> In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the >>> SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to >>> follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to >>> reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done >>> upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. >>> Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time >>> improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD >>> developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting >>> process easier. >> I am one person whose opinion Gleb got completely right - I could not >> care less about new syntax nor about how close or how far are we from >> OpenBSD, as long as pf works for my purposes and it does. This far >> into the thread and somebody has yet to provide a comprehensive list of >> the benefits that we allegedly miss, or to come up with the real >> benchmark result to substantiate the performance claims. >> >> Focusing on disproving anything Gleb might be believing in on the >> matter, while an interesting undertaking, does nothing to give you new >> pf you supposedly want. Doing the work and bringing it all the way to >> will completeness for commit - does. >> >> It was stated repeatedly by multiple people that FreeBSD's network >> stack is way too different from OpenBSD, we support features >> OpenBSD doesn't and vice versa, vimage is a good example, which throws a >> giant wrench into the plan of following OpenBSD 'as closely as >> possible', even as the expense of throwing away all of the SMP work >> done in pf to date. >> > I like vimage, don't get me wrong, but it also seems to have lost traction. > If vimage is the only thing holding a pf import back there ought to be some > discussion about which is a priority. As one involved with Vimage, I get feedback all the time that lets me know it's in really heavy use in some pretty interesting commercial situations. It HAS lst some traction in terms of added work, but that's because it's solid enough for people to use. In the situations where it's being used, it's a game changer and rhe conversation goes something like: "hey vimage and pf don't work together.. guess that makes the firewall decision easy.. use ipfw" > > Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in freebsd, > like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. > > /A > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 05:42:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A75A486; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:42:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-x22d.google.com (mail-oa0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D717926B9; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:42:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f45.google.com with SMTP id i7so6765925oag.32 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:42:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=yZxGbpBs6EKrl6Tqm2c8nk+uzlkB4SVIzksNuW0BuBw=; b=lpbETty60UourIjyN0+j51O/pQc09G7xBUzIPxdJ2y4Xz7F160AABc1T1g2nNjaWCn bcFUVKdL6muIe+OrvEaxC8665lDf8B30L1GTnJvLAG955mM6jvFkGKmeM4WVbM3m3DEa 82E1GwOcVx1mpYxq3qN4UjgbNBT1VTLMZhByA7rWKctMWMwB38P1ohuXFRBaXvT2lITh huThNJ6F2Bkb4sy1s6YJTGhJjQJlBo2pyg8DMwPnwDEfXGP8c3pqRMvQyUE7t3gybkAa aSCZTzF1ykdd6H2cRBczZMWfQwTMlCFQRgEgRxZBdWts8Z6zz5oV7OFhELRZZUW1vckw HMtA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.176.10 with SMTP id ce10mr33540987oec.8.1405921366137; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:42:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.170.39 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:42:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53CC87D2.1000601@freebsd.org> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> <53CC87D2.1000601@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:42:46 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Andreas Nilsson To: Julian Elischer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: Maxim Khitrov , Current FreeBSD , Alexander Kabaev , FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:42:47 -0000 On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:24 AM, Julian Elischer wrote: > On 7/21/14, 7:27 AM, Andreas Nilsson wrote: > >> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Alexander Kabaev >> wrote: >> >> On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:15:36 -0400 >>> Maxim Khitrov wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Lars Engels >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two >>>>>> versions of pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It >>>>>> confuses people, which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide >>>>>> an conquer for other platforms. I really like the idea of the >>>>>> openpf version, that has been mentioned in this thread. It would >>>>>> be awesome if it ended up as a supported linux thing as well, so >>>>>> the world could be rid of iptables. However i guess thats just an >>>>>> unrealistic dream >>>>>> >>>>> And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the >>>>> work. No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. >>>>> >>>> Gleb believes that the majority of FreeBSD users don't want the >>>> updated syntax, among other changes, from the more recent pf versions. >>>> Developers who share his opinion are not going to volunteer to do the >>>> work. This discussion is about showing this belief to be wrong, which >>>> is the first step in the process. >>>> >>>> In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the >>>> SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to >>>> follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to >>>> reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done >>>> upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. >>>> Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time >>>> improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD >>>> developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting >>>> process easier. >>>> >>> I am one person whose opinion Gleb got completely right - I could not >>> care less about new syntax nor about how close or how far are we from >>> OpenBSD, as long as pf works for my purposes and it does. This far >>> into the thread and somebody has yet to provide a comprehensive list of >>> the benefits that we allegedly miss, or to come up with the real >>> benchmark result to substantiate the performance claims. >>> >>> Focusing on disproving anything Gleb might be believing in on the >>> matter, while an interesting undertaking, does nothing to give you new >>> pf you supposedly want. Doing the work and bringing it all the way to >>> will completeness for commit - does. >>> >>> It was stated repeatedly by multiple people that FreeBSD's network >>> stack is way too different from OpenBSD, we support features >>> OpenBSD doesn't and vice versa, vimage is a good example, which throws a >>> giant wrench into the plan of following OpenBSD 'as closely as >>> possible', even as the expense of throwing away all of the SMP work >>> done in pf to date. >>> >>> I like vimage, don't get me wrong, but it also seems to have lost >> traction. >> If vimage is the only thing holding a pf import back there ought to be >> some >> discussion about which is a priority. >> > As one involved with Vimage, I get feedback all the time that lets me know > it's in really heavy use in some pretty interesting commercial situations. > It HAS lst some traction in terms of added work, but that's because it's > solid enough for people to use. > In the situations where it's being used, it's a game changer and rhe > conversation goes something like: > > "hey vimage and pf don't work together.. guess that makes the firewall > decision easy.. use ipfw" > > Good to know! > >> Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in freebsd, >> like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. >> >> /A >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >> " >> >> > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 05:44:25 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 791C762C; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:44:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-x232.google.com (mail-oa0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 346BE26DE; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:44:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id g18so6646527oah.37 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:44:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=b+L3Pde+2p5x0v0UjX45Tc99rHgHH4cWZvS9nPvqaog=; b=TCjR2WwQ4HBCIQyCUjmdESvnic+dz8ioYDpDS/mc2B40VZ8jxTKCMp0XPnoR0vlnSD hzGT2TmKst3BpzlzZsgimO9K6Xcwiw/xBlMX65flwwtLzYnWftRHvo+KStwoZXJYeLyw 4KEHhzIZpmaOW+j0YqWJcjc17viWJBLu6adTy6wtW+ThMiWNsViPbOvEd6FioQAPeQ2i jS4RXGKEswsSLmOC4BEG6r/hXUTCnvqH7TFTN8V8ERKbws1oyEKz9nkDxhyG2NeDT77X 67WVW8k9Qjni/7ga08m9P/oHK1bfrHxB/fdV9UVw4Zfkk4ANxe871192wBpuq/2/qHu2 ImUg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.116.161 with SMTP id jx1mr33664789obb.50.1405921464548; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.170.39 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:44:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140721.074105.74747815.sthaug@nethelp.no> References: <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> <20140721.074105.74747815.sthaug@nethelp.no> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:44:24 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Andreas Nilsson To: sthaug@nethelp.no Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: Maxim Khitrov , Current FreeBSD , Alexander Kabaev , Mailinglists FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:44:25 -0000 On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:41 AM, wrote: > > Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in freebsd, > > like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. > > I use MD5 auth for BGP sessions every day (and have been doing so for > several releases). One could definitely wish for better integration - > having to specify MD5 key both in /etc/ipsec.conf and in the Quagga > bgpd config is not nice. But it works. > As far as I know you can only send out correctly authed stuff but not validate incoming. Has that changed? /Andreas > > MPLS would be nice - but is not a high priority. That's what I use > Juniper and Cisco routers for. For MPLS to be of any use I'd also need > a working IS-IS implementation, and I believe Quagga isn't quite there > yet. > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 05:49:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACBB8961 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:49:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (bizet.nethelp.no [195.1.209.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E89002720 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:49:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 4924 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2014 05:42:20 -0000 Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (HELO localhost) (195.1.209.33) by bizet.nethelp.no with SMTP; 21 Jul 2014 05:42:20 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:41:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20140721.074105.74747815.sthaug@nethelp.no> To: andrnils@gmail.com Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: References: <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: max@mxcrypt.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, kabaev@gmail.com, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:49:05 -0000 > Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in freebsd, > like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. I use MD5 auth for BGP sessions every day (and have been doing so for several releases). One could definitely wish for better integration - having to specify MD5 key both in /etc/ipsec.conf and in the Quagga bgpd config is not nice. But it works. MPLS would be nice - but is not a high priority. That's what I use Juniper and Cisco routers for. For MPLS to be of any use I'd also need a working IS-IS implementation, and I believe Quagga isn't quite there yet. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 06:24:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44583F8B for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:24:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-x231.google.com (mail-vc0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05AEA2A22 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:24:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f177.google.com with SMTP id hy4so11429432vcb.36 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:24:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=oCuLUALGxvBsBuSpBQHf2jQ93En9uh4tCHa3eN/s4oM=; b=oUx1LjxPomYug5VuO7PXJGoFwj+tVg69JcjWBuy5h6v8LJll3XoOX6lb+4ubEqxu16 DwQBkMT7Heap1euixTSL3VP/ZmOY8p29ffbr7C5Y+c2MbLOMYW/rHkxvvyosrmM24Zik 2VmfbvELVuHxL/zGU0111r+D8rExuZsK2ci19+yAHhbsfEsDdE21FeIUJA6YUlqst0fy E3u3MIedB6ej57gCkfVOi7hEJUCgC2Lcy3QBttfvHog28i9o0GEp9Eutw8C15DDu6hPP 2M2Eygt9L1oOc3gXkvtl9d+8QEuzEHrOX6xBc1XD+4m+jTwr5Ap0Vm0kUt+D/o4l2REt eOCA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.135.133 with SMTP id ps5mr22469095vdb.33.1405923886748; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.20.74 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:24:46 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Remote kernel debugging question From: Nidal Khalil To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:24:48 -0000 Hello All, I am somewhat new to BSD kernel but I am trying to debug a kernel module using remote debugging. I am using 9.2 RELEASE. I setup and compiled the kernel with the following: makeoptions DEBUG=-g options KDB options KDB_TRACE options DDB_CTF options DDB options GDB options ALT_BREAK_TO_DEBUGGER I setup the uart for serial1 flags to 0x90 and I can read and write to the serial from either machine Both machines have the same kernel booted. I can enter ddb but I can not launch gdb The remote GDB backend could not be selected. sysctl -a | grep debug.kdb debug.kdb.available: ddb Is that correct or it should be: debug.kdb.available: ddb gdb How do I enable gdb backend. Thanks Nidal From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 06:31:31 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 288F0E0 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:31:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "ca.infracaninophile.co.uk" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 045992ABE for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:31:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.2.117.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6L6VAun005602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:31:10 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Authentication-Results: lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none header.from=infracaninophile.co.uk DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk s6L6VAun005602 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1405924271; bh=FPtuc7dzou8vi54msq5/S6wifO743m319cgul4WLe44=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; z=Date:=20Mon,=2021=20Jul=202014=2007:31:01=20+0100|From:=20Matthew =20Seaman=20|To:=20freebsd-questi ons@freebsd.org|Subject:=20Re:=20Future=20of=20pf=20/=20firewall=2 0in=20FreeBSD=20?=20-=20does=20it=20have=20one=20?|References:=20< 53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk>=20<20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.or g>=20<20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de>=20=20=2 0=20<53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net>=20=20<20140720123916.GV96 250@e-new.0x20.net>=20=20<20140720214629.GF197@home.opsec.eu>=20|In-Reply-To:=20; b=O86nha/M3fF7dYTOeGlncLLitoDOfEEaw1S/+WrfQUeFSqgtBzZOS7rDNykfq2kLg JDSHvc0OuNLnkQkRqy7HcqWrxC4pyV9QsljN+RDGKJopI4lyoblGZk8FfzzjfqtGvp VkHN+3QOR+8DzTWbCWGAjQf5mPDMcDdN7xGfqHUg= Message-ID: <53CCB3A5.2010403@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:31:01 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720214629.GF197@home.opsec.eu> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 OpenPGP: id=E1ECF9BB Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HlOfalfeEJcIEv62PV8SoIKkEDIhECGrv" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.3 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:31:31 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --HlOfalfeEJcIEv62PV8SoIKkEDIhECGrv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/07/2014 23:26, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > I am not privy to the inner workings of the project, but surely a > decision of this importance would come to the attention of the > core team, who are listed at: >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/administration.html#t-core Members of the core team are well aware of the discussions around pf -- possibly not the current thread in -questions@..., but certainly discussion on -net@... and other more technical lists. However core is not necessarily the body to decide how pf should be developed in future. Such decisions are usually made by the developers with deep domain knowledge and the time and resources to work on the area. core would only tend to get involved in case there was a dispute between developers that could not otherwise be resolved, or if there were questions of licensing or some problem that would bring the entire project into disrepute. In fact a far more relevant body in this case is the FreeBSD Foundation. As the primary fundrasing arm of the project they would be the people to go to when looking to fund development on something like this. > A port of OpenBSD PF may be quite impractical or undesirable- I have no= > idea. However, if all potential contributions are viewed as criticism t= o > be refuted, it will damage the ability of the project to attract > contributors. Rather than telling a potential contributor that their > efforts will never be included in the official distribution it would be= > more supportive of the project to say that a port of PF would be welcom= e > as a port, but might have difficulty displacing current offering. That > doesn't promise anything, but encourages involvement, if indeed > involvement is desired. Now this -- on the level of how the project encourages or discourages contributions of development work -- is far more the sort of thing core takes an interest in. However the first question will be 'does whatever proposed change stand up technically?' =46rom what I've seen in this thread, there is an expressed desire to resynchronise the syntax used by pf.conf(5) with OpenBSD -- for which there are valid arguments both for and against. However the suggestion that this should be done by re-importing the entire pf code base from OpenBSD has been rebuffed for good reason. Whether it is feasible to update just the pf user interface -- maybe even allow 'old' and 'new' syntax depending on command line options -- is a far more interesting question. Also, do not confuse the responses of one or a small group of FreeBSD developers for the general policy of the project. FreeBSD developers tend to be a self-selected highly technical bunch and not always interested in or practised at dealing with the general public. Stringent criticism is actually a good sign: it means that what is being proposed looks to have potential, but definitely needs work. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk --HlOfalfeEJcIEv62PV8SoIKkEDIhECGrv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJTzLOtXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ2NTNBNjhCOTEzQTRFNkNGM0UxRTEzMjZC QjIzQUY1MThFMUE0MDEzAAoJELsjr1GOGkATFKMQAJzYYlGQcr8lTcq5bn48O12h rXb2+RbIEDZsxflwDNWguaD6iNXqEkWyw5XgaWoS+PUu4QC2JFB2MPFlJYrs2SIi QuQoQpDL3QP7AhwH3k/6RQiL3rofhzQFLVndeKf1wGO5NJBzUvcELlVYYAjbj9lz PQiPKfsIPE6GpsCU7DBbLZbsEvLug0NUM+XTf7hP4VK0nRqq6/rbJdfANRJ9h06z OMFbKjWfMzV39MtxL8DTC6ZegiNG1EMkBTiR0qr3GFNc9nRNgrmuo+2zM4rtYJBE Ny8Ci0GhtXebT8k3TdDqpBpWvxO3ZOTnxf38dRHhEtWH1J9Q4JLv3ZmusWW2BdfS ecwio8dZwLSlId3RDx7iOyuPDiBIgInrryiWajYcJQ7Xt5QtZJrPVnxcvMlPFxE8 m6dvMP/xoTyKtkRWSLDoeHFr4c8zMZGEL6ejGR0Iurud6hD5bwemPhMgT9POCvL/ 3JGa1PL33wD7RGq2/x9Qq7rws4BtN90GzXYNR+s1bM60M5CFsZDBsVRrktA6zE2c KWle4miA7NivsSJjicWMo+AT0liglWFWl88uIuYp/lneIpf+fekLen6jCuUVBxHf dVK9SYQpp6g7brMwGmyr2L86ur8306hH7oKot8ltMjlE10fYyAptAeP3gUXddttO xVMaXD4wuLUyKshxPqNQ =4ma9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HlOfalfeEJcIEv62PV8SoIKkEDIhECGrv-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 06:57:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32D5657C for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:57:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (bizet.nethelp.no [195.1.209.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6CE602C6C for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:57:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 7080 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2014 06:57:31 -0000 Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (HELO localhost) (195.1.209.33) by bizet.nethelp.no with SMTP; 21 Jul 2014 06:57:31 -0000 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:56:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20140721.085616.74744313.sthaug@nethelp.no> To: andrnils@gmail.com Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: References: <20140721.074105.74747815.sthaug@nethelp.no> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: max@mxcrypt.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:57:34 -0000 > > > Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in freebsd, > > > like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. > > > > I use MD5 auth for BGP sessions every day (and have been doing so for > > several releases). One could definitely wish for better integration - > > having to specify MD5 key both in /etc/ipsec.conf and in the Quagga > > bgpd config is not nice. But it works. > > > As far as I know you can only send out correctly authed stuff but not > validate incoming. Has that changed? Have a look at tcp_signature_verify(), called from tcp_input.c. Added in r221023, see http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/netinet/tcp_input.c?view=log Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Revision 221023 - (view) (download) (annotate) - [select for diffs] Modified Mon Apr 25 17:13:40 2011 UTC (3 years, 2 months ago) by attilio File length: 106717 byte(s) Diff to previous 220560 Add the possibility to verify MD5 hash of incoming TCP packets. As long as this is a costy function, even when compiled in (along with the option TCP_SIGNATURE), it can be disabled via the net.inet.tcp.signature_verify_input sysctl. Sponsored by: Sandvine Incorporated Reviewed by: emaste, bz MFC after: 2 weeks From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 07:33:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFD0CCC2 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:33:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from elsa.gfuzz.de (elsa.gfuzz.de [88.198.148.62]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F162F99 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:33:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.gfuzz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0921AE3393 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:33:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at elsa.gfuzz.de Received: from elsa.gfuzz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (elsa.gfuzz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOLywRfvpQfV for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:33:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.opdns.de (188-193-147-46-dynip.superkabel.de [188.193.147.46]) (Authenticated sender: lists@gfuzz.de) by elsa.gfuzz.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8FE4BE041C for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:33:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:33:01 +0200 From: Oliver Peter To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: DNSSEC validation with Unbound in FreeBSD 10 Message-ID: <20140721073301.GA28832@mail.opdns.de> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux 2.6.32-29-pve i686 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:33:13 -0000 --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 03:53:28PM -0400, freebsd@fongaboo.com wrote: >=20 > To what exent is what is described in this tutorial already turnkeyed for= =20 > you in a fresh FreeBSD 10 install?: >=20 > http://www.prado.it/2012/04/23/how-to-configure-unbound-with-dnssec-valid= ation-on-freebsd-9-0/ Unbound is in base (rcvar=3D"local_unbound_enable"), preparations for chroo= t have already been made, minimal configuration for chrooted unbound is in documentation [unbound.conf(5)]. root key for dnssec validation still has to be fetched manually and des not belong to base. --=20 Oliver PETER oliver@gfuzz.de 0x456D688F --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlPMwi0ACgkQ6LH/IUVtaI+97gCggSOvXskcwa0ZwpXcwsyYE8oY Eg4AniCBbVDv5anprVrhvB4FlFU+37DV =I68T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --k+w/mQv8wyuph6w0-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 08:12:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A819DA40 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:12:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yh0-x22f.google.com (mail-yh0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AE422470 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:12:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yh0-f47.google.com with SMTP id f10so3805752yha.34 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:12:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=kuh/pNi1FDy/YuezHkAz2peQq6gO+XKH173+T673Cr8=; b=nEU2VYU0H+t3+MC9WLTJVz2L4yih+NWbva4SqLl1X7madeMuzjlyXjj0RXGe4X1kYg oc8ZXvnDTKuTsRcNT1rHZyKj4DjjZnhJD5YFzIA4HXKwbcZDgJtXDofyFic1bPpBw2CQ fKzuIQQz8wWwVvQJLKbCxAyebS6ra9r8UIhff/SCvx4Ff5AwYKvHKYPZTZxgKHRs8fao 81cfFmkgIBZZrgba66BK3q/lphWvG1CmAgzDTCOHN8rr25umJmDSPeyceW9H00IfIbIj uXB439OsTjOgZHdA+VIr0ry5wdjS3kGlk/2jj3xzrnXaB6C5jnxX0jfpmygkC9TUtNEJ thxA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.127.81 with SMTP id c57mr37345815yhi.118.1405930331452; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.132.80 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:12:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:12:11 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is LDNS? From: krad To: freebsd@fongaboo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:12:12 -0000 generally yes but i does support some form of authoritative data, check out stub-zones. Its not really geared up for it though so probably best to use nsd On 18 July 2014 20:07, wrote: > > In an earlier thread, I had been told that Unbound was resolver ONLY. > > > > On Fri, 18 Jul 2014, krad wrote: > > not from what i have seen its more of a toolset for dns programming. Have >> a look at unbound though as that is a caching resolver, with authoritative >> capabilities, and >> is built on ldns. Its also part of freebsd 10 base system >> >> >> On 17 July 2014 22:45, wrote: >> >> Is LDNS an alternative *authoritative* name server? If so, any good >> tutorials out there? >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> -------------- >> shot through the heart ooh baby do you know what >> that's worth >> and you're to blame ooh heaven is a place >> on earth >> darling you give love they say in heaven love >> comes first >> a bad name we'll make heaven a place >> on earth >> ORBITAL >> "Halcyon Live" >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions- >> unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> >> >> >> From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 08:23:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C660EA1 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:23:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yk0-x233.google.com (mail-yk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85F8A258F for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:23:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yk0-f179.google.com with SMTP id 142so3655831ykq.24 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:23:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=JHecoGrB5D/UNwu15Le1fDQk5TTUyzLqfN4T3+7pj18=; b=OtPWJHUx+u6WbJJ45kNIdMm1dRpyYPP8DqvqojwDnXETI6yk0Qpoeb6KW5GjeetoUD +Ylt04NmtfVM9GNEN86GJl/btyeBDknt/MdW3BS1uGYHsKIVL7u+jyKA0dV+PzoJ4/t5 wc0VfwN7FZ7IeKA/AsuPdYdsR/PyxypZ7Sd1lGd4T6yYgKcW86vDAyr6COf+qlGk+hhb WV6dtAzAu+x1NSMOYvJOHib0rszNMdzwxWcGAzV2oBCowVEouv0K4KO0m75TXyU1aoac zRvfiamthkcSqZ6eeCH94bXDkiWTOidR3pjs+FQGFWFeeySf5SrTXfkMdcePf3MYYMkl FX6w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.94.138 with SMTP id n10mr13904878yhf.133.1405931022656; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.132.80 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:23:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:23:42 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS From: krad To: RW , FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:23:43 -0000 You seem to be getting away from your initial statement, which you said zfs would make it worse, and journaled ufs. I really dont see this being the case, yes there are scenarios where u will get a screwed pool, but thats the case with any file system. If you are on a desktop and you dont, care about your data and would prefer to have the speed sure use ufs, but if you do care use zfs. Any i3 or better desktop, with 4gb+ ram is going to handle zfs fine, unless you are going to be using some heavy io or ram based tasks, in which case you would probably want more ram and zfs's striping anyhow. On 18 July 2014 18:04, RW wrote: > On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 09:48:24 +0100 > krad wrote: > > > "I don't understand why you think that. My point was that losing > > random files from everything can be far more disruptive than losing > > files from a single mountpoint." > > > > Well thats why you would use copies=1+n one each dataset that was on a > > single drive. That way you wouldnt lose anything. If your that worried > > about drive failures though you should be using some kind of raid. > > Usually the reason someone adds extra drives to a desktop is that they > need extra storage. I very much doubt that many people are going to > want to keep multiple copies of everything. In any case ZFS isn't > guaranteed to be able to keep copies on separate drives. > > Drive failure is by far the most important source of data loss > on Desktops, and with decent journalling (or equivalent), practically > the only thing worth worrying about for most people. Data rot will > occur, but it's unlikely it will make a difference to desktop data. > > > > "I was really more interested in whether ZFS (with ARC) is faster than > > UFS with FreeBSD's own file caching. A lot of people say that putting > > an OS on SSD gives a significant speed-up. 16GB should be more than > > enough to keep the important system files in memory, so it sounds like > > smarter caching might be useful." > > > > If you want speed sure UFS is faster on the same machine, but thats > > because its doing less. > > Yes, I know ZFS has overheads, but ARC is potentially better than OS > caching. The question was whether, with a decent amount memory, ZFS can > actually be faster than UFS. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 08:24:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C5DA139 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:24:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi0-x242.google.com (mail-oi0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::242]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57E8125A3 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:24:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi0-f66.google.com with SMTP id e131so1136238oig.5 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:24:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=UrvhrK7vhLgCsHDMHTjg6hAQwhu0I47VkrMa98staPo=; b=oLX+YbfzLZb85kIrauBO1bJEdyIS+bmPbzrsUkEA/ZiONHMD5RUN/6imVxzNcx6/g/ masr5466SLa74g51Uwx0kXkKJDU79uLnvUcwwHX0xaeGIG4jTJvQIM5+EjojvXOlfgj5 AaE4JuyMVhD66M3CTj0YMRV276p9wkRiepfUFJafOVz5dzobtip22GZbSaosFA5T3pYb mgUCH6hyworOi3lJRc6ikc1Ujo3DgUAQi/gZCUg6yCS2uyx6px+OWGfPLr3O51lR8uer VEvsg9HdUjrl+NkqzY7rprSddkhqfWZVWfJ4YolU0qPwRXRYxnKhQ2TH0ZSTwvUQpEpQ zAmQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.164.101 with SMTP id yp5mr34503487oeb.59.1405924814033; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.90.233 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:10:14 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: We Can Help Increase Your Keyword Ranking From: vittorio Recchi To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:24:41 -0000 Dear Business Head www.people.freebsd.org This is Susanta working as a business development consultant with a web solution company. 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Thanks, *Susanta* Business Development consultant +919938780190 Skype: sahu.susanta seoprofessionalsolution@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 08:51:29 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0F74F50 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:51:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yk0-x22c.google.com (mail-yk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACEB12986 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:51:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yk0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 10so3717303ykt.31 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=t8FZVJuMLr4gUG+49iwtwBigK+niK/tv6r7tuz/O/g8=; b=FTHRES/acuMWNcpbTZyg1wWgRz9xGpwC71CX1O+P1uZOTJz7VWh7CSkAiOtLSe7fOa I9hi1lSB8Q9MAd9NPrlWXW3NtqWZvWd60zVri/SmaNuR/1lJGPC6uRJOoHStPyInB3A3 yqKCQjXu65JNmCW8axFvaKUkYCb1LUgxVDfMeWBX/lNLQjffiXHg467mB/R1xZJr+c1q 6mN2OZ2Yd6tkh8CPmDbBg4/7dPancP1AWZZnAf31KR80aiGfOflkyVx8dMa8yrlaoc5P e7Pjn0Yaf+dA0qcSHKYjZ+Acl/icDaY0/KnXE/BQTvOE8tbm5qo/OzsIX9rlQPifV22z iHRQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.82.5 with SMTP id n5mr14106075yhe.35.1405932688797; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.132.80 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:51:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> <20140720201251.3bdd2226.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:51:28 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: krad To: Odhiambo Washington Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: User Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:51:30 -0000 Thats a terrible argument. What you are suggesting is there should never be any kind of open discussion of ideas which is fundamental to opensource software On 20 July 2014 19:35, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > On 20 July 2014 21:12, Polytropon wrote: > > > On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:41:33 -0400, Alexander Kabaev wrote: > > > It was stated repeatedly by multiple people that FreeBSD's network > > > stack is way too different from OpenBSD, we support features > > > OpenBSD doesn't and vice versa, vimage is a good example, which throws > a > > > giant wrench into the plan of following OpenBSD 'as closely as > > > possible', even as the expense of throwing away all of the SMP work > > > done in pf to date. > > > > The difference between FreeBSD's and OpenBSD's network stack > > is also a problem that you can hardly compensate by maintaining > > two versions of pf, one provided with the system, one available > > via ports (as FreeBSD 10 did with unbound / bind), and you also > > would have to decide which version ("old" or "new") goes with > > the OS and which comes from ports. Of course following a "moving > > target" is much easier to do with ports (higher frequency of > > changes is possible) than with an OS component, and I should > > emphasize OS _core_ component, as pf is _very_ tightly integrated > > with kernel and OS mechanisms. > > > > Learning a new syntax is the smallest problem here, and BSD folks > > (as UNIX people in general) have a great reputation of being able > > to learn new things, evaluate them, and use them as needed, in > > comparison to those poor guys over in MICROS~1 land... ;-) > > > > > So to summarize (probably): > > Someone needs to decide whether or not they want FreeBSD or OpenBSD when it > comes to PF. > It's a simple decision to make:) > You draw a two-column table with FreeBSD and OpenBSD on each one, do your > analysis and decide where to pledge your allegiance. > > Debate CLOSED! > > -- > Best regards, > Odhiambo WASHINGTON, > Nairobi,KE > +254733744121/+254722743223 > "I can't hear you -- I'm using the scrambler." > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 09:13:52 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24BAE778 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:13:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm7-vm8.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm7-vm8.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.96.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 745FF2B76 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:13:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.82.98.53] by nm7.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 09:13:43 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.79] by tm6.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 09:13:43 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp116.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 09:13:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.es; s=s1024; t=1405934023; bh=em9ozT8/FwtstyyDcH9bfiP5Suvfg15qkiimNu7eUkY=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:X-Mailer:Disposition-Notification-To:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=mKcarsbei9lqDopZgksO8fBRzZo+LEG6tXYQnZ9rqWsy+dWfeW2qvhHMMFnSpM53xFk13P/y0RlOaq7HbJIgN0RaCws0xdv8Bt+/LGDKMMhbeYg9GOQqCLw1AfsYX8FIVov5f5SAFooaulI9Kdj8faSN7DfTC2D200Jj1Ijd62s= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 649552.58720.bm@smtp116.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: lp3y9BIVM1lTXZO6kRKW7CdOMmuBCp6vSc2XyKtoN2.GMpM XnoID36CBIUeB8mOzyz8KuONwk8OTpMT..ez2DUplKnCm4ds.99WqWFgazRB X00WtJOhG6lTFVke93UyAmL9vwE1NEll.hMitfj.6x.HwJIv_nGSJmCeQ5Ik dTBu9DkzTW5ov_TA.JUgjAB0t3MbQzhckfk9FWNMY_.6rzPNrVgDrw5w5srC xTQo5nH4clxlMFpS90N0cE1BJ79asqy1gHh5yP9x_lWN8EZquVOXhFt30FQg E6tInzfhv_TLU84QxNhFNGVuvro6rzKDSqgDe42.bjrSwh2jsyeR5IY.Df79 7oxVKm0sKSGyYO.KZyQsftNbBPQ_7MzYASzbK5pSEXyk98pPwY9npACGlpUw MIQ9k.t7XO_fWWJvpsfhBvzeVwqBivzAabllHn246BrBcrTpCUitPuw6yT2O OVkMDjtqg8LhA7Jw8Db1FmbE2nHkLBbdKwxEJ7HrIfEHminZDeroo3hoPRw- - X-Yahoo-SMTP: mX392iiswBAeJNdO_s.EW62LZDJR Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:14:03 +0200 From: Eduardo Morras To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Message-Id: <20140721111403.1ed4838e38e9b79f3843d9de@yahoo.es> In-Reply-To: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> <20140720201251.3bdd2226.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.4.2 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:13:52 -0000 On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:35:25 +0300 Odhiambo Washington wrote: > So to summarize (probably): > > Someone needs to decide whether or not they want FreeBSD or OpenBSD > when it comes to PF. > It's a simple decision to make:) > You draw a two-column table with FreeBSD and OpenBSD on each one, do > your analysis and decide where to pledge your allegiance. ... Not FreeBSD and OpenBSD discussion, but pf on FreeBSD and pf on OpenBSD, and note that I don't use the word 'versus'/'vs.' > > Debate CLOSED! No think so. I can think some ideas not discussed in this thread, a) One of the best parts of OpenBSD pf is the configure syntax. Could it be implemented in ipfw? Different apps with same config language. b) I'm not a kernel, pf or ipfw developer, but in user space, threading is not the only way to get smp, you can use fork or multiple processes, see f.ex. PostgreSQL, or varnish with its varnishd, adm, log.. different specialiced bins for same app. I know (because I discovered it in the thread) there are other conflict points as network stack, vm between OpenBSD and FreeBSD, but perhaps we can dodge the problem using other way. --- --- Eduardo Morras From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 11:12:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04C1EB84; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:12:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from forward3l.mail.yandex.net (forward3l.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1819::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "forwards.mail.yandex.net", Issuer "Certum Level IV CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 897C02648; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:12:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp19.mail.yandex.net (smtp19.mail.yandex.net [95.108.252.19]) by forward3l.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id C6F8B150130E; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:12:31 +0400 (MSK) Received: from smtp19.mail.yandex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp19.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 4BF78BE00E6; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:12:31 +0400 (MSK) Received: from 84.201.164.118-vpn.dhcp.yndx.net (84.201.164.118-vpn.dhcp.yndx.net [84.201.164.118]) by smtp19.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id kWMeRnPJdx-CUAistTi; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:12:30 +0400 (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) X-Yandex-Uniq: b3d5f938-c5fb-4ff8-869d-f993f1bf0cd4 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1405941150; bh=RmwkCOjc2PH5D+lAaTSej4qGKSBMXDe3QVsifjEMKyI=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type; b=VdnU+tqEZ1xOmHabsno4spENqa9zYojw67jiSQ2DHoZyVPAOszDqA1CQq+92+RPYE qeYhfmGHxT8XvJ6bbVRg/ukTwa1v8kGrrDxb78bRt2s6+v6TJTLM5sCx2GsSDJClLz svDTKffDzjW39RQYK6VogytEN7zHz6Iqw+fS+skw= Authentication-Results: smtp19.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru Message-ID: <53CCF596.1070302@yandex.ru> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:12:22 +0400 From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Maxim Khitrov , FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EITUmaAVUtsHLdssNwHpA0G0W8jTQ9d3L" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:12:45 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --EITUmaAVUtsHLdssNwHpA0G0W8jTQ9d3L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20.07.2014 18:15, Maxim Khitrov wrote: > In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the > SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to > follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to > reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done > upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. > Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time > improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD > developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting > process easier. Even if you just drop current PF from FreeBSD, there is nobody, who want to port new PF from OpenBSD. And this is not easy task, as you may think. Gleb has worked on rewriting PF more than half year. So, return back all improvements after import will be hard enough and, again, nobody want to do it. :) --=20 WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov --EITUmaAVUtsHLdssNwHpA0G0W8jTQ9d3L Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTzPWbAAoJEAHF6gQQyKF6URMIAImzr/5fuPhtMn6ucHQN/iXS c9J4cuB3IBWrK0UhaNPloPk9sXthIeNqFg0rX7QXu2QGTkkxYvJo50LkdIoftokG jgozS5QZFg7ojcWBxts0LNAAo/keSv28gmDQgDQSimb5VX/Nj6dwlYjb3XW9iyGc Gd8FWMJz04Pi0iUGkTeFUOuVlBMmT0ktbSfiKsj0LHRmMmTvPYtoC7h2g1Q4Ukte xskOpj3vAH0eAdhlIGpCr7yZkKFzIIDwZAyj8gyBijT2NjxOE7HOWyTJplleO1wE IgcO2ta54ctsFHnmulCqEMKJV1F94DIh1bPWuEdqbo9ePjY9NKzqgda6nzDSR+I= =Xfip -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EITUmaAVUtsHLdssNwHpA0G0W8jTQ9d3L-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 11:46:30 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98B57EB1; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:46:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-x230.google.com (mail-oa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53FB72A59; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:46:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id m1so7133741oag.35 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:46:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=zqKf21w9w3Z9QtqUIV4Z7vrpVa4Lziz1tFh1jQpWEW0=; b=Y2ZdQZnx9LFYJ5uzFrphCSFBThMHQ6J7ZHJdqA7qz1l8RgPHKQVBf5r14Mzr2gdUKW 16xK+5+swhQPLMlH87rwZzVr9MYDS0ANqcKV0uLSFe+5QjZDs2Kv9jaluyFHS4zTB+Sd 8bPGfqQda/5U3SXesUsAVCtN3fGihvZGZM3rfoxvXfNh7NawU3XKzMeNg+/yqdh3wsOD DxBTKS4ZTZgShzdVHzsLcX3Qa+sDNpMmnHS87knBgz7DmcMzSTnBkct5K6uy1KcG9TQW vIbSB5bo/drSqL5BmGsKwB2K2ZDV8s2YsaYWN/AlDwUBjVnAU4de71AevlabtJO4jfCF sPig== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.133.69 with SMTP id pa5mr37089163obb.2.1405943188848; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.76.170.39 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:46:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140721.085616.74744313.sthaug@nethelp.no> References: <20140721.074105.74747815.sthaug@nethelp.no> <20140721.085616.74744313.sthaug@nethelp.no> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:46:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Andreas Nilsson To: sthaug@nethelp.no Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: Maxim Khitrov , Current FreeBSD , Mailinglists FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:46:30 -0000 On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:56 AM, wrote: > > > > Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in > freebsd, > > > > like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. > > > > > > I use MD5 auth for BGP sessions every day (and have been doing so for > > > several releases). One could definitely wish for better integration - > > > having to specify MD5 key both in /etc/ipsec.conf and in the Quagga > > > bgpd config is not nice. But it works. > > > > > As far as I know you can only send out correctly authed stuff but not > > validate incoming. Has that changed? > > Have a look at tcp_signature_verify(), called from tcp_input.c. Added > in r221023, see > > http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/netinet/tcp_input.c?view=log > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Revision 221023 - (view) (download) (annotate) - [select for diffs] > Modified Mon Apr 25 17:13:40 2011 UTC (3 years, 2 months ago) by attilio > File length: 106717 byte(s) > Diff to previous 220560 > Add the possibility to verify MD5 hash of incoming TCP packets. > As long as this is a costy function, even when compiled in (along with > the option TCP_SIGNATURE), it can be disabled via the > net.inet.tcp.signature_verify_input sysctl. > > Sponsored by: Sandvine Incorporated > Reviewed by: emaste, bz > MFC after: 2 weeks > > I stand corrected. Excellent news ( for me, that is) :) Best regards Andeas From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 11:51:14 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEF7835C for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:51:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qc0-x22a.google.com (mail-qc0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7964A2B2E for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:51:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id c9so5465612qcz.15 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:51:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CRMMw1jthAyDPJ61ZcNAlUKmFvRrSN4fqrEheNRL9iI=; b=RQiTpHMcce7MZG+FwdyLXz89Bd509D0o7U31WZP/leCEAilpvIIzTeTsTLmiRLXQfV bVQziPjEQ95wOVsd5xmGR9BywYKGTh9BsIG81ihKCwvn4b9FpdgGWDpl+/r79K/kI9ls B/jFXn1TRb1XhgetIpcE7NRaiw6UcgfpZoWcw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CRMMw1jthAyDPJ61ZcNAlUKmFvRrSN4fqrEheNRL9iI=; b=epWa4uQFvaNYd+m8nLGkYn0ejbqvvkWyY/BJauDWNKfRTI9ce/JDiB1iB4Ztz7fSlV /Cux25895AMJO6tOpuGZJWfkuLcYbplDUJDvivJ3FVd9BkrhQDVuZFGucRoTz3h+IbP5 ri/1UkauWoQAPp1TA7dqgc68sddkmhzyHYaEdfB2EzGo+knXRLlVdErbUrDwk5SPBljR akklEJHTsAZH/Kt156d1Su55MRVuWw/cKjtWDuxN0phn/q7O2k341cxdorQzUntbsUK2 Oh7hqXk2m07usoiL7StzJpHT9FEaC2FlDU51QZVn9AHjANr5mR16xO8xzRZhxQZJMTG7 OW2A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkpVRxP7Vf6MROBArNqYwfD/J8cUMWetFS/gGiBjNXXtNyQjfx0batjVReBP8P4rPj/Gb9Z X-Received: by 10.140.107.4 with SMTP id g4mr38399387qgf.100.1405943472884; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id q10sm25547475qah.9.2014.07.21.04.51.12 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com [76.182.104.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3hH1VR53B4z3DlW6 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:51:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.4 at scorpio.seibercom.net Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:51:11 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Message-ID: <20140721075111.1e0f3684@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <53CCF596.1070302@yandex.ru> References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <53CCF596.1070302@yandex.ru> Reply-To: User questions Organization: seibercom NET X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:51:15 -0000 On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:12:22 +0400, Andrey V. Elsukov stated: >Even if you just drop current PF from FreeBSD, there is nobody, who want >to port new PF from OpenBSD. And this is not easy task, as you may >think. Gleb has worked on rewriting PF more than half year. So, return >back all improvements after import will be hard enough and, again, >nobody want to do it. :) All generalizations are usually wrong. There is no way in this universe that you speak for everyone. -- Jerry From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 12:08:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79EDBE23 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:08:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pa0-f69.google.com (mail-pa0-f69.google.com [209.85.220.69]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 541092CC6 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:08:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f69.google.com with SMTP id kx10so54842332pab.8 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:08:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:message-id:date:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=2i+KRBXKtfLFRIuyEnFR7hUYrl6m4N4N9iWcL2Zn3rU=; b=JbqMaNn9lrUEvfTVcZ2HEefCT3J9EsYW9lFUok/BgJd/PB/cPGy2tAcrMXZnukHEl0 8CHYQKBFJvNwBMelN07eNj4Fw0NSf2Er6UKJioAgqsBFac6ywTUKlVFOYja8kgw4K7PO YuoSg9eBONc2Zo1P+YR6S8lf0uMoKt4MOBeBTnyUI1UfOItuWXg3MCEdLb3DueTUynOi 5vUzf9bzdFpRKNTCQnEHXO/xHWB87xolSMC7LadDfGUHUziSPslX5mOsa8Cqs1XHP5UW vPZm+M+iYlBQiC2tZqqU4JKhvv5ugQ06e5vgq3LlvMFipNgpvk/huxh9SJ4Q9xSzV/OL ARCA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkKhbSzKcwLZ1sqE+xGhSrNXmoZJTrjBLlE6om8zlm9K+AjpvSu45gs6jvP64bd8jRP7mBH MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.107.33 with SMTP id gz1mr7122958pbb.5.1405944521002; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <047d7b6d7c62bf982204feb2f7de@google.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:08:41 +0000 Subject: Ideas for getting organic traffic:Freebsd.org:ZS From: Jay Vincent To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:08:48 -0000 Hi Freebsd.org Team, I trust you are doing splendidly. 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Best Regards, *Jay Vincent* Sales Advisor Skype: webmarketing.sales From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 13:57:28 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D56BD19; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:57:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pd0-x235.google.com (mail-pd0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 075E228A2; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:57:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pd0-f181.google.com with SMTP id g10so7650807pdj.26 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:57:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=QWhriY2swMIFWukwl+YjrIzSn8u5N8ueYINmR9/mlB0=; b=x0GjTOcswsA+/Cq13VQtwYYJOv5Hnbr255Q9tVfciXh3xEqZaLpqmeQ7TIjkbBpKtp F0irptp9ODCLegD4GdjS3zV+MNPe03Fln8t3YPqpCVuA6HFrSjFejAdgN6YjwL1l1c27 rAAsZavswNglM5mzZP1j7notDnLndWie6w487iPBBsXOblySuIwZyjjLmWtK96Mgclju wI8KzyyIEaEl49mmr29+EKcPQsCpdRCmU1Ip9/8nZGm/ZR25xYfVwnGhamU8+uH7dltj G2vUf63wsojGoILg0ocarYLio1Of6k1gN1MT6M5gCQHIiuum5VQ3CcgZbfELcB+lwf0U X/ww== X-Received: by 10.70.128.227 with SMTP id nr3mr2359761pdb.156.1405951047050; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:57:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from billwin7 (amx-tls2.starhub.net.sg. [203.116.164.12]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id av2sm14318796pbc.16.2014.07.21.06.57.24 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:57:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "bycn82" To: "'Andreas Nilsson'" , References: <20140721.074105.74747815.sthaug@nethelp.no> <20140721.085616.74744313.sthaug@nethelp.no> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:57:21 +0800 Message-ID: <002601cfa4eb$b4554270$1cffc750$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQI/50tpYfGwpMKNeBPkSOvXVI/2jQIrBaeAAroD+/YB+jKkdAEPYalNmoqQtWA= Content-Language: en-us Cc: 'Maxim Khitrov' , 'Current FreeBSD' , 'Mailinglists FreeBSD' X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:57:28 -0000 There is no doubt that PF is a really good firewall, But we should = noticed that there is an ipfw which is originally from FreeBSD while PF = is from OpenBSD. If there is a requirement that PF can meet but ipfw cannot, then I think = it is better to improve the ipfw. But if you just like the PF style, = then I think choose OpenBSD is the better solution. Actually OpenBSD is = another really good operating system.=20 Like myself, I like CentOS and ipfw, so no choice :) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > current@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Nilsson > Sent: 21 July, 2014 19:46 > To: sthaug@nethelp.no > Cc: Maxim Khitrov; Current FreeBSD; Mailinglists FreeBSD > Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? >=20 > On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:56 AM, wrote: >=20 > > > > > Also, the openbsd stack has some essential features missing in > > freebsd, > > > > > like mpls and md5 auth for bgp sessions. > > > > > > > > I use MD5 auth for BGP sessions every day (and have been doing = so > > > > for several releases). One could definitely wish for better > > > > integration - having to specify MD5 key both in /etc/ipsec.conf > > > > and in the Quagga bgpd config is not nice. But it works. > > > > > > > As far as I know you can only send out correctly authed stuff but > > > not validate incoming. Has that changed? > > > > Have a look at tcp_signature_verify(), called from tcp_input.c. = Added > > in r221023, see > > > > = http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/netinet/tcp_input.c?view=3Dlog > > > > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no > > > > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Revision 221023 - (view) (download) (annotate) - [select for diffs] > > Modified Mon Apr 25 17:13:40 2011 UTC (3 years, 2 months ago) by > > attilio File length: 106717 byte(s) Diff to previous 220560 Add the > > possibility to verify MD5 hash of incoming TCP packets. > > As long as this is a costy function, even when compiled in (along = with > > the option TCP_SIGNATURE), it can be disabled via the > > net.inet.tcp.signature_verify_input sysctl. > > > > Sponsored by: Sandvine Incorporated > > Reviewed by: emaste, bz > > MFC after: 2 weeks > > > > I stand corrected. Excellent news ( for me, that is) :) >=20 > Best regards > Andeas > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 14:35:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AF53CF1 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:35:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com (mail-wi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A09A2D09 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:35:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id d1so4285762wiv.7 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7vVkPjIRUIpOROJH9QCf0iNRILdidGZGVKBFX5s+TL8=; b=C2ufAueog8+rhf8It0TnOOCHDOG+Ych4u65Wke0c87y3TJ1FFg3gXdadvo4H5woSCE 0nxsICaHvRK7xK6KJlVX+j6JjfPMmNmBX2nDgPcoEft2HqtfGne0gI5dYXaYw5PpCSmx LdB3fA2IaChdErNc6rX93U7hx8hL2Dwyxbs+0V/jR7zjx+b8INDmRmmuHu7J3O+iiYs/ z8HR7++KcMmBsAyjvqiUabaBQ3vuzasN4KCKGlNpzrpvQ5345D7WFTajWaV3yNr2HpaB DLOORGE88CEMV3BM0LjHBZ6gGz4t7pz7u5aaQl1XEq7kY5ND01jr2FLY7i51tENcHB6h +/Kg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.71.12 with SMTP id q12mr23776586wju.5.1405953321682; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.156.2 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:35:21 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: FreeBSD NAS hardware suggestions From: cruxpot To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:35:24 -0000 Hi there, I am upgrading my FreeBSD 9.2 NAS box. I purchased an old Highpoint Rocketraid 2300 from eBay along with some large disks. My motherboard is an A8R-MVP with an old Opteron processor with 3GB RAM with no EFI support in the legacy BIOS (AFAIK) and I am curious whether it can either boot or access 3TB disks in a raidz pool. Does FreeBSD 9.2 perform well with the controller card if 4 disks are hooked up to it? If I choose disks larger than 3TB, will I have to make the raidz pool "auxiliary" and not boot from a root raidz? I am looking at Seagate's NAS line of drives since they seem to have less DOA's in reviews than the WD red drives. Are these good for ZFS? Any other recommendations? I am doing this upgrade because the NAS currently has Seagate Barracuda Green disks that keep dropping off (I posted here a while back) and I think it's related to the green drives' firmware, which cannot be modified. Thanks for any insight! From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 14:48:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2113623A for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:48:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yk0-x235.google.com (mail-yk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8C242E0B for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:48:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yk0-f181.google.com with SMTP id q200so3855478ykb.12 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:48:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5iu094cMVNXKpPtOOo1X6nSl58PQRgzHZoMZoZpZHCw=; b=yj70gmugUf5V5RvtUuaexRt/pggSC9SBdvyFXMs9uT0AHqdXvj+ZOYikB7PiseGQ3Y n/TKm3ru7nA4sFycDCq3CY/Mx4Z/Pj6MA/5kj8X4EYzTesGfC5QHZG3X0WzxdFi6X0aS f5dlK4oymyCTHPjfxE+DUF2I/ullz31BXFCdqprC1+3t5gHROpdgVvu1TK749CG48tHL DAP3Nm/6FEhtBW+sDjQ4iy/EY+WW0Ovb9RCl5o/tvuE5eNyolqT2rWh3DzSDt0BCjUGC qQRCBVE5AKx+GDzDrYMaBFV5fDvftnsRoZITc0bLVmkwhu9fTbtiJXhJvOFsIU7jYGIR FkPQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.82.5 with SMTP id n5mr16928205yhe.35.1405954132106; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.132.80 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 07:48:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:48:52 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD NAS hardware suggestions From: krad To: cruxpot Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:48:53 -0000 does that card export the drives properly or is it a raid card? If it doesn't you might be better off picking yourself up a cheap sas HBA (lsi/intel) off ebay. You can get 3 or 6 gbit ones for about =C2=A330-60 if= you bide your time On 21 July 2014 15:35, cruxpot wrote: > Hi there, > > I am upgrading my FreeBSD 9.2 NAS box. I purchased an old Highpoint > Rocketraid 2300 from eBay along with some large disks. My motherboard > is an A8R-MVP with an old Opteron processor with 3GB RAM with no EFI > support in the legacy BIOS (AFAIK) and I am curious whether it can > either boot or access 3TB disks in a raidz pool. > > Does FreeBSD 9.2 perform well with the controller card if 4 disks are > hooked up to it? > > If I choose disks larger than 3TB, will I have to make the raidz pool > "auxiliary" and not boot from a root raidz? > > I am looking at Seagate's NAS line of drives since they seem to have > less DOA's in reviews than the WD red drives. Are these good for ZFS? > > Any other recommendations? I am doing this upgrade because the NAS > currently has Seagate Barracuda Green disks that keep dropping off (I > posted here a while back) and I think it's related to the green > drives' firmware, which cannot be modified. > > Thanks for any insight! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 14:56:19 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF2C44E3 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from oneyou.mcmli.com (oneyou.mcmli.com [IPv6:2001:470:1d:8da::100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "oneyou.mcmli.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B3752EE7 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sentry.24cl.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:558:6017:a2:a860:3073:4c46:6ac9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "sentry.24cl.com", Issuer "Mike's Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by oneyou.mcmli.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3hH5c03j3Fz1DRW for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 10:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BigBloat (bigbloat.24cl.home [10.20.1.4]) by sentry.24cl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hH5bx2V32z1Bl7 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 10:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <201407211056120131.00800484@smtp.24cl.home> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 10:56:12 -0400 From: "Mike." To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD NAS hardware suggestions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:19 -0000 On 7/21/2014 at 9:35 AM cruxpot wrote: |Hi there, | |[snip] | |I am looking at Seagate's NAS line of drives since they seem to have |less DOA's in reviews than the WD red drives. Are these good for ZFS? | |[snip] ============= Another data point for you: http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=94502 Depending upon where you looked, I wrote one of those early failure reviews for the WD Red drives, yet I continue to buy them in my ZFS array. Why?, you might ask. The easiest time to replace a failed drive is right at the beginning when it is new. Both amazon and newegg have a very efficient return/replace process for early failures. In my experience, once you get past the early failures, the WD Red drives are solid, the Seagates less so. So I run them for a week before I put them in the array. That seems to catch the early failures. I trade off early failures when it is far easier for me to deal with them vs. later life failures that often (and usually) occur when you least expect them and at inconvenient times. You might make a different trade-off. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 15:16:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A58DAE4 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:16:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qa0-f46.google.com (mail-qa0-f46.google.com [209.85.216.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A19020CE for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:16:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id v10so5262061qac.33 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:16:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:date :subject:to:message-id:mime-version; bh=R65s+y54kOIZhdWYfCXKo0YpAE9uGZ5xkgWgTonVTKc=; b=WLEOP6AENiShZtq/zQlwDDmbLhSZZKr0olwxMM1249jUeM/1RUe+pG3ItD9RsYGQED fmKfEGOsjyCSpj6ZW86yUpzVNQui9NXZz7URDBmvOsyYNxhrH9zJvG3/NO1CTHoje1ED CG3QzE3aKm8NgTPcAwXuM2ec8B58G5+t/ZVDX4o9w8+Q/SavFglurB4rDYNWWFispdt3 qjVbLsEpqntAA+f+jbl8HoiOpyCs4V2RbtRyMrlCpIOyw1Bq8MlyWo7tStU1tqPRENfO edyuRkZ0RneQnOU4Nb0K2Bl0EVXVaGUoUIzNEXSmYgAGkqUDHbawXkuKc1sv06bJOhLu 7G6g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmydyTVWX0z9hLK/T7s+eJszDCOYmt7aEYyKCE2lSOZc8Yo3Ot9/cfzOKqs476VTv453m9M X-Received: by 10.140.95.101 with SMTP id h92mr40146883qge.35.1405955776385; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.65] ([96.236.21.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w3sm3025589qap.37.2014.07.21.08.16.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:16:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Kraus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:16:13 -0400 Subject: SWAP / ZFS / SSD question To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:16:24 -0000 Hi all, I=92ve got a box running Freebsd 9.1 with VirtualBox and have = run into a couple odd hangs. The system is a SuperMicro with two = quad-core Xeon, 32GB RAM, and 3 1TB SAS drives mirrored via an internal = LSI 2208 controller (the drives are in JBOD mode) via ZFS. The system = is all ZFS with a 32GB zvol for swap. I am occasionally running into the dreaded "kernel: swap_pager: = indefinite wait buffer: bufobj: 0=94 issue. In the past it was always = when I was either adding a VM or changing a VM=92s configuration. I = assumed low RAM. But it hit last night (at 03:00 this morning in fact) = and nothing was changing at that time. There was about 770MB RAM free = and the ZFS ARC was using about 4GB, so the system was not really under = heavy memory pressure at the time. In order to reduce the impact, until we put a more permanent fix = in place, I have set sync=3Ddisable for the zvol =85 I figure that if = the system crashes and I lose a swap write I really don=92t care (I am = assuming here that swapd commits it=92s writes as sync). Our long term plan is a change in overall architecture that will = separate storage and compute services and have multiple compute nodes. = We started with one box assuming we would grown to more than one as the = business need arose. So our mid-term plan is to install a dedicated swap = device. The question is whether swapd (under 9.1) will be happy with an = SSD or whether there are unintended consequences to that route. Small = SSDs are cheap enough these days, we really don=92t need more than 32GB = (64GB if we are feeling extravagant). I know about the major performance differences between SSD = vendors and models (I heard all about that on the various ZFS lists I = subscribe to), so we will have to choose an SSD carefully. -- Paul Kraus paul@kraus-haus.org From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 15:21:38 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EB99F18 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:21:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qa0-x22f.google.com (mail-qa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBE7C2197 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:21:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id i13so5294839qae.34 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:21:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=4L45ojZOecJLhjGNEdm+XwWampnyXwxS5p1Z3lXtnlo=; b=DGOab8HPu7KKP3u4TsXI6jVIBU0NGFISD4o8s9TgwNIOKPNN7vK116jPb1UUFeCFPQ wSBqd1s7tkMbONQpd6F+BY2lMjp5EHn35gBxMVlqfRy3EE80R1F+Ebxm6TtaFFAlkef6 W8R6OARwusBeaX8XSfzm/8H3GVvjYomjHzpkZy6YmIwIcyiyVm2oUF7H4SvFA2dStATh Snd4tQ2Y5pz707TY0VgbL5uYD/CBDTmt2cb5wsXh7yuleEFCCddsQqDowO93SedRgMuS /VqyIyJ0ID0hf4x5ux5CULWFCHIVm3ZnpIPbNYJjR9XLj6Sg1b/d2O4H5FOujEUor1X7 ZsOg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.171.197 with SMTP id i5mr44730793qaz.55.1405956096702; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.1.6 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:21:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> <20140720123916.GV96250@e-new.0x20.net> <20140720134133.1d30f725@kan> <20140720201251.3bdd2226.freebsd@edvax.de> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:21:36 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: nsXfV7Tkdgrcj23RToTUf0eh4uI Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Adrian Chadd To: krad Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: Odhiambo Washington , User Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:21:38 -0000 On 21 July 2014 01:51, krad wrote: > Thats a terrible argument. What you are suggesting is there should never be > any kind of open discussion of ideas which is fundamental to opensource > software > There can be an open discussion about what you want but just keep in mind that making work for others is reasonably frowned upon. As I've said - if someone wants to port the updated pf to freebsd-head and go through the process of owning it, then please, do the work. Noone is going to stop you doing that. The kernel is in a much better state now for maintaining multiple packet filters and it's entirely possible to run this as a project where you build it and the tools as an external module that'll compile for both freebsd-head and freebsd-10. You don't have to have a debate bout it. Just do it. :) -a From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 16:49:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0F39F74 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:49:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x22f.google.com (mail-we0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69B032ACD for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:49:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f175.google.com with SMTP id t60so7695322wes.6 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:49:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=lN9WCGtRgu5sU93xGweMl/lLii6uA5ILEq4GlzkcONs=; b=FM8JGOgCfntdRPPSBlHiR1YMe3lcZhsqzBTIJIByXKsvNgh+cBuBv3O8kUgS7HlXxT Ni3KeCuFQ4YZnyw/sv5jie4C4qpUI7D7T1GnZ3cLX/1DDYJlaWi+ZYePAPymY27c4H9e Wb0n55oiV+wZvWKu1UlCAZrjd76CCMTKeMTsT7rZNyjRjMJmTGigHeHhbu26F7oRjlF/ NyIH1HwObf1I/idqROP80N6VU55IcxTgkl6vePtdT4oLD7olJbXsprm1XONVrMEPmMpw GxihdcVqecAqHlikiAH3+IhW5oZdzori0mJ7Ies2OvxpmODG2frnJ+o4oZE6dSqfl2H7 yPYg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.205.141 with SMTP id lg13mr6159342wic.21.1405961340633; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.156.2 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.156.2 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:49:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201407211056120131.00800484@smtp.24cl.home> References: <201407211056120131.00800484@smtp.24cl.home> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:49:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD NAS hardware suggestions From: cruxpot To: "Mike." , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:49:05 -0000 I do not believe the seagate NAS drive is based on the 7200.11 platform. It is a newer series and I could not find much information on long term stability. Is the 2TB limitation going to cause issues on the BIOS? On Jul 21, 2014 9:56 AM, "Mike." wrote: > On 7/21/2014 at 9:35 AM cruxpot wrote: > > |Hi there, > | > |[snip] > | > |I am looking at Seagate's NAS line of drives since they seem to have > |less DOA's in reviews than the WD red drives. Are these good for > ZFS? > | > |[snip] > ============= > > Another data point for you: > http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=94502 > > > Depending upon where you looked, I wrote one of those early failure > reviews for the WD Red drives, yet I continue to buy them in my ZFS > array. Why?, you might ask. > > The easiest time to replace a failed drive is right at the beginning > when it is new. Both amazon and newegg have a very efficient > return/replace process for early failures. > > In my experience, once you get past the early failures, the WD Red > drives are solid, the Seagates less so. So I run them for a week > before I put them in the array. That seems to catch the early > failures. > > > I trade off early failures when it is far easier for me to deal with > them vs. later life failures that often (and usually) occur when you > least expect them and at inconvenient times. > > > You might make a different trade-off. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 18:00:35 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C5B8A2A for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:00:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from oneyou.mcmli.com (oneyou.mcmli.com [IPv6:2001:470:1d:8da::100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "oneyou.mcmli.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 180742227 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:00:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sentry.24cl.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:558:6017:a2:a860:3073:4c46:6ac9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "sentry.24cl.com", Issuer "Mike's Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by oneyou.mcmli.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3hH9hc13R6z1DRP for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:00:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BigBloat (bigbloat.24cl.home [10.20.1.4]) by sentry.24cl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hH9hZ5RKVz1BsH for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <201407211400290742.0128BE45@smtp.24cl.home> In-Reply-To: References: <201407211056120131.00800484@smtp.24cl.home> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:00:29 -0400 From: "Mike." To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD NAS hardware suggestions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:00:35 -0000 On 7/21/2014 at 11:49 AM cruxpot wrote: |I do not believe the seagate NAS drive is based on the 7200.11 platform. |It |is a newer series and I could not find much information on long term |stability. | |Is the 2TB limitation going to cause issues on the BIOS? ============= Thanks for the follow-up. Regarding the BIOS... I tend to install the OS on, and boot from, a smaller drive than 2TB. I leave the array for data-only usage. My next iteration will probably boot from a ZFS mirror, but it will still be separate from the larger data array, so 2TB BIOS issues won't be a concern. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 18:44:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71396B83 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:44:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-f41.google.com (mail-qg0-f41.google.com [209.85.192.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 307532677 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:44:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id q107so5870449qgd.14 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:44:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=AAfbgprSomYaT/Es1BAA+ydHUH69Hz75apIqwNotpNM=; b=A7aeTb8HdP0GOpKmdCvYsiLgaNFvBREFG7qpWWDxHmJlVH3sBn4wtGYVLSo86aTPlZ eMo5vO5aO2QMNqDIwPSC1ETM9RAJnJGzs3KNsiQHTcPxWczt9qXX/NcJE+G6B9O804UB SiB9OU60VHiJnvXkHu4cgHZU0ecy70IDTI4XtK/9K2DnV6uZGSaM4C52kQuaUGLIpZ0F 8X9HlnZMzv+300KeDyog5MKtcMYFAvz60/qYZE/bVO3+jVQ/PfZwgO42b03ON7xZAnY6 t9PVp/hHGiHXZdAZanZFCQpfUyar+I7n2HYHkbKoPmS81j4nrL2QUYmkpNVMhFfvvlfL MOcg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm1wx1k6SOEKwAFIUG7CbFMlhmnoxkz56zTMWMVO1h+Gpdf4NddfUs9Eyb6dp5W61LFtTIi X-Received: by 10.224.87.195 with SMTP id x3mr46822560qal.6.1405968289827; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.65] ([96.236.21.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z14sm27180400qaw.7.2014.07.21.11.44.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS From: Paul Kraus In-Reply-To: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:44:48 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> To: questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:44:57 -0000 On Jul 13, 2014, at 15:03, Michael W. Lucas = wrote: > My virtualization system runs KVM, so I use UFS on VMs. Restoring > ZFS disk images via dd can be problematic. I use ZFS for the host and (generally) UFS on the guests. By using one = ZFS dataset per VM and taking frequent (hourly) snapshots I have an easy = way to roll a VM back to a stable state. > For larger boxes running on real iron, I use ZFS. >=20 > But there's a whole range of conditions between these two. And the way > to fill in the gray spaces is to ask. >=20 > So, how do you decide to use which filesystem? I think this decision tree breaks in a number of ways :-)=20 Desktop vs. Server is the first=85 In my world physical servers get ZFS for all of the various reasons = others have points out, but the biggest is the ensured data integrity. = While not perfect (nothing is), it is much closer than any other open = source solution at this point. I generally do not run FreeBSD as a Desktop (nor OmniOS or SmartOS), so = I don=92t have a strong answer for the Desktop case. Once you go down the Server branch there are more branches=85 Physical vs. Virtual I already stated that I like ZFS on physical hardware. ZFS gives me many = handles to tune (almost too many), between: basic vdev layout and configuration: mirrors, raidz, how many vdevs, = etc. compression: I have seen compression make a 5 fold increase in = performance, I have also seen it reduce performance, it all depends on = your work load, CPU horsepower, and memory bandwidth. dedupe: for certain very specific workloads it can make a huge = improvement, for all the others it generally causes more trouble than it = is worth default block size: this one generates more debate than all of the = others combined, suffice it wo say, test with *your* data and choose = wisely L2ARC and ZIL devices: lots more misinformation out there; mirroring = L2ARC is only occasionally of benefit, ZIL *must* be mirrored, but only = benefits SYNC writes. Know your workload and adjust accordingly. For Virtual systems I have used both (ZFS and UFS) and have had no real = negative (or positive) experiences. Then you get into the Type of Server (be it physical or virtual): End User Mail servers (IMAP, etc.) represent a very different workload = than traditional DB servers, but I still like ZFS for the ease of = management and tune-ability. NOTE: I spent over 10 years managing Solaris systems and storage and ZFS = was a welcome change that greatly simplified storage management =85 at a = cost. I had many more ways to recover a SLVM/UFS filesystem than I do a = ZFS dataset. Part of that is maturity, when ZFS is as old as UFS I=92m = sure it=92ll be there too :-=3D) -- Paul Kraus paul@kraus-haus.org From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 19:06:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94C781EC for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:06:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nqhost.drenet.net (nqhost.drenet.net [184.95.47.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7907C2878 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:06:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nqhost.drenet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4EB93AE86 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nqhost.drenet.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nqhost.drenet.net [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 92705-10 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nqhost.drenet.net (Postfix, from userid 80) id 83BBC3AE52; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:10 -0400 (EDT) To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Installing a vulnerable port on FreeBSD 10 X-PHP-Originating-Script: 80:rcmail.php MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:56:10 -0400 From: Andre Goree Message-ID: <9211b34bf23968bf4ca9a33c9bab6163@drenet.net> X-Sender: andre@drenet.net User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:06:09 -0000 On FreeBSD 10, I can't seem to use the same method I've always used when trying to install a vulnerable port. Has anything changed with this version? I'm trying to install linux-flashplugin, however am (expectedly) running into some vulnerable ports that (unexpectedly) refuse to install no matter what I do. --- root@dlaptop:/usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl # make -DDISABLE_VULNERABILITIES ===> linux-f10-openssl-0.9.8g is forbidden: http://www.freshports.org/vuxml.php?vid=2ecb7b20-d97e-11e0-b2e2-00215c6a37bb|82b55df8-4d5a-11de-8811-0030843d3802. *** Error code 1 Stop. make: stopped in /usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl --- root@dlaptop:/usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl # make -DDISABLE_VULNERABILITIES install clean ===> linux-f10-openssl-0.9.8g is forbidden: http://www.freshports.org/vuxml.php?vid=2ecb7b20-d97e-11e0-b2e2-00215c6a37bb|82b55df8-4d5a-11de-8811-0030843d3802. *** Error code 1 Stop. make: stopped in /usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl --- root@dlaptop:/usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl # portinstall -m DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=yes security/linux-f10-openssl [Reading data from pkg(8) ... - 793 packages found - done] [Gathering depends for security/linux-f10-openssl . done] ** Port marked as IGNORE: security/linux-f10-openssl: is forbidden: http://www.freshports.org/vuxml.php?vid=2ecb7b20-d97e-11e0-b2e2-00215c6a37bb|82b55df8-4d5a-11de-8811-0030843d3802 ** Listing the failed packages (-:ignored / *:skipped / !:failed) - security/linux-f10-openssl --- Any ideas? -- Andre Goree -=-=-=-=-=- Email - andre at drenet.net Website - http://www.drenet.net PGP key - http://www.drenet.net/pubkey.txt -=-=-=-=-=- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 19:37:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4875DE12 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:37:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm36-vm7.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm36-vm7.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.97.139]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 932762B7A for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:37:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.82.98.124] by nm36.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 19:34:54 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.109] by tm17.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 19:34:54 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp146.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 19:34:54 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rocketmail.com; s=s1024; t=1405971294; bh=o+LTduWgtXtiowSq2v1rb1AGirDCtWwEOFeUWV9gxVU=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=prISIpNR5ALJR0KFtexwAcwicuKnbghaxpVIXgLxn68xz640OJGbPorb+WBnNcQGZIcMCWUEgi81Ly7h6U8IZx+ZVFrnRi3KwATbASiSg2rfGXxxyF0TpaDlBQnbwmanSvW+ohU6sGaKWGqtrKdyyf3VxWhkXxzeCq6qmKZXs74= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 751774.78106.bm@smtp146.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: lmH3PuUVM1nq6H2QOikMLdoHbGD0bIfp58dfi2XdedG1VJu oa0T9XTD1d.BNcj8o8ByHewmo8moP44qmzlgwuLLXmIyynZs.BCl8EzKlub0 CJNvcWWeClJMn.me8zpBRwLsxeRgk0hv26X5SO.TLdUEi24As9Lm3P1JoSvY x7FmePpCueWMcu.zzFzo_rYj1Mn93fyLpHXvoePhyjifOlbENlPt3I1juJM0 2VVWGm24rMC7VPMltxqfT3HPlGf1AAItjOOFb6Q8qQSMlRDS4wi.78ImosED fofNk8_v5_Tuye9_tBt3xtHu60hlwUjrHQrTgYwQ.S1Ta_543Jfxxlt364Wj N_pvKWqbXGr_FMfaEj6We_VRw2BMF0h51aNjzgxwEgs3xpmU.Q4wFttHj9fE XpDwkh5bwMeByADj6aMkAuGf0Y_8AXf62Lry0x8XO8GnIIPZeTHg2edWAzxe yJG4LL2ZkR01uUylARTcksrfJcofH9Icb01uZ8WT2tv3i1rlgfjSJZtBw6K8 i2KQ2j327oOQ5zVT96uy83iVy2oBF9ehOS0GbjYT_Q3LnO6XANsCGWEvusG. Bjdp9Qx8WRWTR3dMwuju626XVs_1T2qO0_0vpYJ0vN60AA0uWRbyZpgI- X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- Message-ID: <1405971294.4075.5.camel@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Installing a vulnerable port on FreeBSD 10 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:34:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <9211b34bf23968bf4ca9a33c9bab6163@drenet.net> References: <9211b34bf23968bf4ca9a33c9bab6163@drenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:37:24 -0000 On Mon, 2014-07-21 at 14:56 -0400, Andre Goree wrote: > I'm trying to install linux-flashplugin Currently I don't use FreeBSD, but I use Linux 24/7. On Linux I take another rout. I don't use the proprietary flash crap. If really needed ("really needed" there never is a real need), I first try a current version of firefox. Assumed firefox (HTML5) shouldn't be able to do what I need, I try to use google-chrome-stable. If google-chrome-stable shouldn't do what I need, I don't care. Assumed FreeBSD shouldn't provide HTML5 and/or google-chrome-stable I wouldn't care. Using Linux I'm free to use it, but I still dislike to do it. Consider to ignore websites that require flash. JFTR on Linux I prefer to use QupZilla, regarding to https://github.com/QupZilla/qupzilla/wiki/FAQ it might cause issues on FreeBSD, anyway, even on Linux QupZilla doesn't support flash thingies. What is flash good for? It stands against everything FLOSS folks (should) stand for. Whatever FLOSS OS we prefer regarding to our needs, FreeBSD, Linux or whatever else. My needs are pro-audio, so Linux is the better choice for me. "Pro-audio" indicates that media are important to me, nevertheless I don't care if I'm able to use flash websites. Drop Adobe's flash! 2 Cents, Ralf From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 20:21:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D967EDF5 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:21:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2lp0204.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.204]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99F5A2FB8 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:21:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2601:2:4780:2fd:3cfa:1b41:db29:34df] (2601:2:4780:2fd:3cfa:1b41:db29:34df) by BN3PR0301MB0833.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.154.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.990.7; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:21:38 +0000 Message-ID: <53CD7650.4070403@my.hennepintech.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:21:36 -0500 From: Andrew Berg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Re: FreeBSD NAS hardware suggestions References: <201407211056120131.00800484@smtp.24cl.home> In-Reply-To: <201407211056120131.00800484@smtp.24cl.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [2601:2:4780:2fd:3cfa:1b41:db29:34df] X-ClientProxiedBy: BN3PR0301CA0014.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.180.152) To BN3PR0301MB0833.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.154.143) X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: X-Forefront-PRVS: 0279B3DD0D X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(6009001)(51704005)(24454002)(189002)(199002)(31966008)(74662001)(23676002)(83072002)(21056001)(85852003)(65816999)(83322001)(77096002)(74502001)(102836001)(42186005)(101416001)(89122001)(107886001)(2351001)(107046002)(88552001)(110136001)(92726001)(92566001)(33656002)(86362001)(80022001)(54356999)(106356001)(65956001)(76482001)(99396002)(75432001)(65806001)(4396001)(105586002)(79102001)(81342001)(81542001)(64126003)(46102001)(77982001)(85306003)(64706001)(50986999)(87266999)(76176999)(87976001)(20776003)(50466002)(47776003)(83506001)(95666004)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BN3PR0301MB0833; H:[IPv6:2601:2:4780:2fd:3cfa:1b41:db29:34df]; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; LANG:en; X-OriginatorOrg: my.hennepintech.edu X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 20:21:48 -0000 On 2014.07.21 09:56, Mike. wrote: > Depending upon where you looked, I wrote one of those early failure > reviews for the WD Red drives, yet I continue to buy them in my ZFS > array. Why?, you might ask. > > The easiest time to replace a failed drive is right at the beginning > when it is new. Both amazon and newegg have a very efficient > return/replace process for early failures. IME, Amazon yes, NewEgg not so much. I ended up buying 2 Reds from one and 3 from another, and had a DOA disk from each. Amazon shipped a replacement next-day *before* I returned the defective one, and provided a return label, all at no charge. NewEgg made me pay to ship the defective disk to them and sent me a replacement via standard shipping a day or two after they received the defective one. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 21:48:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC6A5A91; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:48:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from host64.kissl.de (host64.kissl.de [213.239.241.64]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67104282B; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:48:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by host64.kissl.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836B7A5A616B; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:48:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at host64.kissl.de Received: from host64.kissl.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (host64.kissl.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nIawy4D6KVv1; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:48:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.11] (95-91-254-222-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.254.222]) (Authenticated sender: web104p1) by host64.kissl.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 059E0A5A6169; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:48:48 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Franco Fichtner In-Reply-To: <53CC85E2.1030606@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:48:49 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <6326AB9D-C19A-434B-9681-380486C037E2@lastsummer.de> <53CB4736.90809@bluerosetech.com> <53CC85E2.1030606@freebsd.org> To: Julian Elischer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Cc: "Kristian K. Nielsen" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Darren Pilgrim , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:48:57 -0000 Hi Julian, On 21 Jul 2014, at 05:15, Julian Elischer wrote: > Most people I talk to just use ipfw and couldn't care whether pf lives = or dies. They have simple requirements and almost any filter would = suffice. I haven't found anything I'd want to use pf for that ipfw = doesn't allow me to do. There are things pf does that ipfw doesn't... I = just never want them.. this is quite insightful. The gist of this discussion and the apparent lack of upgrades to pf(4) seem to indicate that: (a) other packet filters do the required jobs equally or better or performance doesn't matter at all. (b) for more progressive setups and requirements, FreeBSD servers may as well be complemented with commercial firewalls, hand-rolled or non-FreeBSD solutions Is that somewhat accurate, or is there more to the story? Cheers, Franco= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 21 23:03:44 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F29891F3 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm8-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm8-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7EE62EA8 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:03:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [98.138.100.112] by nm8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 23:01:32 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.167] by tm103.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 23:01:32 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1023.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2014 23:01:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 988280.31768.bm@omp1023.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 247 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jul 2014 23:01:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1405983691; bh=Mhr0+phI6ty2t5kd21jYthHFUAJfNPZ6fFeEC9poB7A=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Ft9tP7QBpxsx40F39vPbBYScpI3o2S67LFoqQi0PBRxwKI8JhAJ7TQ6enODmqXAekfvT1hkowUsuyaQygwwaSKXLDcgIZaDR5xhVQ7xRZ6y7EBxRxOZaGKOQqW028Xu/4Tc6b2rRbcSsGhFYy3AP0BSSEXGlK9kZQka7csfq9fw= X-YMail-OSG: AZQbFlUVM1ljaO06hr5ESAy9eYc0cJY.FAh_ym9SotQ5J3g bZtViq1LNmuAxiyefd2_K.SrcWhTyN3uhDnWmjbVby_UTrGPNP8ZMdFNY94V iwVnwctI3i4ezNIWv7xG8U5_FbSBPbffEMeHx21tfep3Zb9MKWbLa54_ablt uviZbBn5FEDBUI57U7QLE8jQeie_iE4a1fP7LnnUO9atFtbupNCKUjgDfFMc 68Ef3ogmZSrTj9jiUVEHtwj946gsVqO2Evp9xRp.UMtWuP30e6ZwSgASinIg zQ5otRfYSzqBpzQsgRruuFIwrHPru8wc.7M5h40T7HD1KfabJRbq68lakK7v eaDGA7e1BfStMycVEWwBn8Z974rqvh3MxGfXJrcHTtjR9w16nmGpKvDThoOF FatQAn6a4sorWj__fR_Pbt6w59o2imj2wlfSdfUR.z71TqxQtpP91FF7vWu1 X4CGiXxgKU2nQVRzD_ps51Dt4bJJTlO.wCDkXIScAW1Nz8WA2P3TKj8DaWI2 1OvXFiB_c4E8e7qvRQ7jVyyYlCxQMJGrNm932RWieq_IUgWDNwHMKgWrs7_M - Received: from [66.129.241.13] by web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:01:31 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001, aGkgYWxsOgoKaSBpbnN0YWxsZWQgZnJlZWJzZDkuMyB2aWEgdXNiIGRpc2suIGluIHRoZSBlbmQgaSB3YXMgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGluc3RhbGwgdGhvc2UgcGFja2FnZXMgYnV0IHNvbWVob3cgaXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCBubyBmdHAgc2VydmVycyBoYXZlIHRob3NlIHBhY2thZ2VzIGFuZCB0aGUgaW5zdGFsbGF0aW9uIG9mIHRob3NlIHBhY2thZ2VzIHdlcmUgZmFpbGVkLgoKZG9lcyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyB3aHkgaXMgdGhhdD8KCnRoYW5rcwEwAQEBAQ-- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.195.680 Message-ID: <1405983691.78621.YahooMailNeo@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:01:31 -0700 From: gahn Reply-To: gahn Subject: freebsd 9.3 packages To: Freebsd General Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:03:44 -0000 hi all: i installed freebsd9.3 via usb disk. in the end i was trying to install those packages but somehow it seems that no ftp servers have those packages and the installation of those packages were failed. does anyone know why is that? thanks From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 01:37:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 750A1912 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 01:37:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nqhost.drenet.net (nqhost.drenet.net [184.95.47.164]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57F4229F2 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 01:37:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nqhost.drenet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38513ADF8 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nqhost.drenet.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nqhost.drenet.net [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 94276-10 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:37:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nqhost.drenet.net (Postfix, from userid 80) id A320E3AD78; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:37:18 -0400 (EDT) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installing a vulnerable port on FreeBSD 10 X-PHP-Originating-Script: 80:rcmail.php MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:37:18 -0400 From: Andre Goree In-Reply-To: <9211b34bf23968bf4ca9a33c9bab6163@drenet.net> References: <9211b34bf23968bf4ca9a33c9bab6163@drenet.net> Message-ID: <890d7e846460e48c55db039c3557c352@drenet.net> X-Sender: andre@drenet.net User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.5 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 01:37:20 -0000 On 07/21/2014 2:56 pm, Andre Goree wrote: > On FreeBSD 10, I can't seem to use the same method I've always used > when trying to install a vulnerable port. Has anything changed with > this version? I'm trying to install linux-flashplugin, however am > (expectedly) running into some vulnerable ports that (unexpectedly) > refuse to install no matter what I do. > > > --- > > root@dlaptop:/usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl # make > -DDISABLE_VULNERABILITIES > ===> linux-f10-openssl-0.9.8g is forbidden: > http://www.freshports.org/vuxml.php?vid=2ecb7b20-d97e-11e0-b2e2-00215c6a37bb|82b55df8-4d5a-11de-8811-0030843d3802. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > make: stopped in /usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl > > --- > > root@dlaptop:/usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl # make > -DDISABLE_VULNERABILITIES install clean > ===> linux-f10-openssl-0.9.8g is forbidden: > http://www.freshports.org/vuxml.php?vid=2ecb7b20-d97e-11e0-b2e2-00215c6a37bb|82b55df8-4d5a-11de-8811-0030843d3802. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop. > make: stopped in /usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl > > --- > > root@dlaptop:/usr/ports/security/linux-f10-openssl # portinstall -m > DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=yes security/linux-f10-openssl > [Reading data from pkg(8) ... - 793 packages found - done] > [Gathering depends for security/linux-f10-openssl . done] > ** Port marked as IGNORE: security/linux-f10-openssl: > is forbidden: > http://www.freshports.org/vuxml.php?vid=2ecb7b20-d97e-11e0-b2e2-00215c6a37bb|82b55df8-4d5a-11de-8811-0030843d3802 > ** Listing the failed packages (-:ignored / *:skipped / !:failed) > - security/linux-f10-openssl > > --- > > > Any ideas? FWIW, I was able to get flash installed using the linux_base-c6 packages. I followed the instructions here: https://github.com/xmj/linux-ports/ -- Andre Goree -=-=-=-=-=- Email - andre at drenet.net Website - http://www.drenet.net PGP key - http://www.drenet.net/pubkey.txt -=-=-=-=-=- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 02:46:56 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95AEFBD for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 02:46:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [IPv6:2a02:c200:0:10::404:501]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 416462F02 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 02:46:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE8312C05A4 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DA03612C108D; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:46:43 -0700 From: David Benfell To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: All of a sudden, problems with X Message-ID: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 02:46:56 -0000 --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I'm not sure, but I think my problem is with an update. But I'm not sure what needs to be rolled back or even how to do it. When I recently installed FreeBSD on this Asus X202e (no, I haven't gotten it booting properly), X worked great if I used startx. gdm had some weird problem where it wasn't displaying the screen properly. But I could use startx with fluxbox and this was fine. Now I've rebooted and I can't get Xorg working properly at all. Xorg -configure yields only a black (apparently not blank) screen. I tried adding the magic to allow CTRL/ALT/BACKSPACE but it doesn't work (yes, I rebooted after adding the magic). The only way out of the black screen is CTRL/ALT/DEL, which reboots the system. If I use startx, I get a correct display, but the mouse doesn't work. I actually have two of them. This is a notebook system, so one is the touchpad and the second is a Kensington trackball. My /var/run/dmesg.boot and /var/log/Xorg.0.log are below. I'm not sure what to make of any of it, and I'm--ummm--rather handicapped trying to figure anything out when I can't get X running to run a regular browser: Copyright (c) 1992-2014 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE-p7 #0: Tue Jul 8 06:37:44 UTC 2014 root@amd64-builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 FreeBSD clang version 3.3 (tags/RELEASE_33/final 183502) 20130610 module_register: module ti_mmchs/mmc already exists! Module ti_mmchs/mmc failed to register: 17 module_register: module at91_mci/mmc already exists! Module at91_mci/mmc failed to register: 17 module_register: module sdhci_pci/mmc already exists! Module sdhci_pci/mmc failed to register: 17 module_register: module sdhci_bcm/mmc already exists! Module sdhci_bcm/mmc failed to register: 17 module_register: module sdhci_fdt/mmc already exists! Module sdhci_fdt/mmc failed to register: 17 module_register: module sdhci_ti/mmc already exists! Module sdhci_ti/mmc failed to register: 17 module_register: module mmc/mmcsd already exists! Module mmc/mmcsd failed to register: 17 CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-3217U CPU @ 1.80GHz (1795.96-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin =3D "GenuineIntel" Id =3D 0x306a9 Family =3D 0x6 Model =3D 0x3a= Stepping =3D 9 Features=3D0xbfebfbff Features2=3D0x3dbae3bf AMD Features=3D0x28100800 AMD Features2=3D0x1 Standard Extended Features=3D0x281 TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics real memory =3D 4294967296 (4096 MB) avail memory =3D 3997605888 (3812 MB) Event timer "LAPIC" quality 600 ACPI APIC Table: <_ASUS_ Notebook> FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 4 CPUs FreeBSD/SMP: 1 package(s) x 2 core(s) x 2 SMT threads cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 cpu2 (AP): APIC ID: 2 cpu3 (AP): APIC ID: 3 ioapic0 irqs 0-23 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 random: initialized acpi0: <_ASUS_ Notebook> on motherboard acpi_ec0: port 0x62,0x66 on acpi0 cpu0: on acpi0 cpu1: on acpi0 cpu2: on acpi0 cpu3: on acpi0 hpet0: iomem 0xfed00000-0xfed003ff on acpi0 Timecounter "HPET" frequency 14318180 Hz quality 950 Event timer "HPET" frequency 14318180 Hz quality 550 Event timer "HPET1" frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 Event timer "HPET2" frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 Event timer "HPET3" frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 Event timer "HPET4" frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 atrtc0: port 0x70-0x77 irq 8 on acpi0 atrtc0: Warning: Couldn't map I/O. Event timer "RTC" frequency 32768 Hz quality 0 attimer0: port 0x40-0x43,0x50-0x53 irq 0 on acpi0 Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 Event timer "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz quality 100 Timecounter "ACPI-fast" frequency 3579545 Hz quality 900 acpi_timer0: <24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz> port 0x408-0x40b on acpi0 pcib0: port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: on pcib0 vgapci0: port 0xf000-0xf03f mem 0xf7800000-0xf7bff= fff,0xe0000000-0xefffffff irq 16 at device 2.0 on pci0 agp0: on vgapci0 agp0: aperture size is 256M, detected 65532k stolen memory vgapci0: Boot video device pci0: at device 4.0 (no driver attached) xhci0: mem 0xf7e00000-0xf7e0ffff i= rq 16 at device 20.0 on pci0 usbus0: waiting for BIOS to give up control xhci0: 32 byte context size. xhci0: Port routing mask set to 0xffffffff usbus0 on xhci0 pci0: at device 22.0 (no driver attached) ehci0: mem 0xf7e20000-0xf7e203ff i= rq 16 at device 26.0 on pci0 usbus1: EHCI version 1.0 usbus1 on ehci0 hdac0: mem 0xf7e18000-0xf7e1bfff irq 2= 2 at device 27.0 on pci0 pcib1: irq 16 at device 28.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib1 pcib2: irq 17 at device 28.1 on pci0 pci2: on pcib2 ath0: mem 0xf7d00000-0xf7d7ffff irq 17 at device 0.0 on pc= i2 ar9300_set_stub_functions: setting stub functions ar9300_set_stub_functions: setting stub functions ar9300_attach: calling ar9300_hw_attach ar9300_hw_attach: calling ar9300_eeprom_attach ar9300_flash_map: unimplemented for now Restoring Cal data from DRAM Restoring Cal data from EEPROM Restoring Cal data from Flash Restoring Cal data from Flash Restoring Cal data from OTP ar9300_hw_attach: ar9300_eeprom_attach returned 0 ath0: RX status length: 48 ath0: RX buffer size: 4096 ath0: TX descriptor length: 128 ath0: TX status length: 36 ath0: TX buffers per descriptor: 4 ar9300_freebsd_setup_x_tx_desc: called, 0x0/0, 0x0/0, 0x0/0 ath0: ath_edma_setup_rxfifo: type=3D0, FIFO depth =3D 16 entries ath0: ath_edma_setup_rxfifo: type=3D1, FIFO depth =3D 128 entries ath0: [HT] enabling HT modes ath0: [HT] enabling short-GI in 20MHz mode ath0: [HT] 1 stream STBC receive enabled ath0: [HT] 1 RX streams; 1 TX streams ath0: AR9485 mac 576.1 RF5110 phy 1638.6 ath0: 2GHz radio: 0x0000; 5GHz radio: 0x0000 pcib3: irq 19 at device 28.3 on pci0 pci3: on pcib3 pci3: at device 0.0 (no driver attached) ehci1: mem 0xf7e1f000-0xf7e1f3ff i= rq 23 at device 29.0 on pci0 usbus2: EHCI version 1.0 usbus2 on ehci1 isab0: at device 31.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 ahci0: port 0xf0b0-0xf0b7,0xf0a0= -0xf0a3,0xf090-0xf097,0xf080-0xf083,0xf060-0xf07f mem 0xf7e1e000-0xf7e1e7ff= irq 19 at device 31.2 on pci0 ahci0: AHCI v1.30 with 6 6Gbps ports, Port Multiplier not supported ahcich0: at channel 0 on ahci0 ahciem0: on ahci0 pci0: at device 31.3 (no driver attached) pci0: at device 31.6 (no driver attached) acpi_lid0: on acpi0 acpi_button0: on acpi0 acpi_button1: on acpi0 acpi_tz0: port 0x100-0x107 on acpi0 acpi_acad0: on acpi0 battery0: on acpi0 atkbdc0: port 0x60,0x64 irq 1 on acpi0 atkbd0: irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 atkbd0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: irq 12 on atkbdc0 psm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=3D0x300> vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 ppc0: cannot reserve I/O port range coretemp0: on cpu0 est0: on cpu0 p4tcc0: on cpu0 coretemp1: on cpu1 est1: on cpu1 p4tcc1: on cpu1 coretemp2: on cpu2 est2: on cpu2 p4tcc2: on cpu2 coretemp3: on cpu3 est3: on cpu3 p4tcc3: on cpu3 fuse-freebsd: version 0.4.4, FUSE ABI 7.8 Timecounters tick every 1.000 msec vboxdrv: fAsync=3D0 offMin=3D0x250 offMax=3D0x64c hdacc0: at cad 0 on hdac0 hdaa0: at nid 1 on hdacc0 pcm0: at nid 20 and 18 on hdaa0 pcm1: at nid 26 on hdaa0 hdacc1: at cad 3 on hdac0 hdaa1: at nid 1 on hdacc1 pcm2: at nid 6 on hdaa1 random: unblocking device. usbus0: 5.0Gbps Super Speed USB v3.0 usbus1: 480Mbps High Speed USB v2.0 usbus2: 480Mbps High Speed USB v2.0 ugen1.1: at usbus1 uhub0: on usbus1 ugen0.1: <0x8086> at usbus0 uhub1: <0x8086 XHCI root HUB, class 9/0, rev 3.00/1.00, addr 1> on usbus0 ugen2.1: at usbus2 uhub2: on usbus2 ses0 at ahciem0 bus 0 scbus1 target 0 lun 0 ses0: SEMB S-E-S 2.00 device ses0: SEMB SES Device ada0 at ahcich0 bus 0 scbus0 target 0 lun 0 ada0: ATA-8 SATA 2.x device ada0: Serial Number S0V1T5WZ ada0: 300.000MB/s transfers (SATA 2.x, UDMA6, PIO 8192bytes) ada0: Command Queueing enabled ada0: 476940MB (976773168 512 byte sectors: 16H 63S/T 16383C) ada0: quirks=3D0x1<4K> ada0: Previously was known as ad4 Netvsc initializing... SMP: AP CPU #1 Launched! SMP: AP CPU #2 Launched! SMP: AP CPU #3 Launched! Timecounter "TSC" frequency 1795961472 Hz quality 1000 Root mount waiting for: usbus2 usbus1 usbus0 uhub1: 8 ports with 8 removable, self powered uhub2: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ugen0.2: at usbus0 umass0: on usbus0 umass0: 8070i (ATAPI) over Bulk-Only; quirks =3D 0x4000 umass0:2:0:-1: Attached to scbus2 Root mount waiting for: usbus2 usbus1 usbus0 cd0 at umass-sim0 bus 0 scbus2 target 0 lun 0 cd0: Removable CD-ROM SCSI-0 device=20 cd0: 40.000MB/s transfers cd0: Attempt to query device size failed: NOT READY, Medium not present - t= ray open cd0: quirks=3D0x10<10_BYTE_ONLY> ugen0.3: at usbus0 uhub3: on us= bus0 ugen2.2: at usbus2 uhub4: on = usbus2 ugen1.2: at usbus1 uhub5: on = usbus1 uhub3: 4 ports with 4 removable, self powered Root mount waiting for: usbus2 usbus1 usbus0 uhub4: 6 ports with 6 removable, self powered uhub5: 6 ports with 6 removable, self powered ugen0.4: at usbus0 uhub6: on us= bus0 ugen1.3: at usbus1 Root mount waiting for: usbus1 usbus0 uhub6: 4 ports with 4 removable, self powered ugen1.4: at usbus1 ugen0.5: at usbus0 ukbd0: on usbus0 kbd2 at ukbd0 Root mount waiting for: usbus1 usbus0 ugen1.5: at usbus1 hid_get_item: Number of items truncated to 255 ugen0.6: at usbus0 Root mount waiting for: usbus0 Root mount waiting for: usbus0 ugen0.7: at usbus0 umass1: on= usbus0 umass1: SCSI over Bulk-Only; quirks =3D 0x0100 umass1:3:1:-1: Attached to scbus3 da0 at umass-sim1 bus 1 scbus3 target 0 lun 0 da0: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-6 device=20 da0: Serial Number 1 da0: 40.000MB/s transfers da0: 1907729MB (3907029168 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 243201C) da0: quirks=3D0xa Root mount waiting for: usbus0 ugen0.8: at usbus0 umass2: on= usbus0 umass2: SCSI over Bulk-Only; quirks =3D 0x0100 umass2:4:2:-1: Attached to scbus4 Trying to mount root from ufs:ada0p4 []... da1 at umass-sim2 bus 2 scbus4 target 0 lun 0 da1: Fixed Direct Access SCSI-6 device=20 da1: Serial Number 1 da1: 40.000MB/s transfers da1: 953869MB (1953525168 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 121601C) da1: quirks=3D0x2 wlan0: Ethernet address: 20:16:d8:f8:89:a4 ath0: ath_reset_grablock: didn't finish after 10 iterations ath0: ath_reset_grablock: warning, recursive reset path! ath0: ath_reset: concurrent reset! Danger! ath0: ath_edma_recv_tasklet: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; skipping ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing ath0: ath_reset_grablock: didn't finish after 10 iterations ath0: ath_reset_grablock: warning, recursive reset path! ath0: ath_reset: concurrent reset! Danger! ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing ath0: ath_reset_grablock: didn't finish after 10 iterations ath0: ath_reset_grablock: warning, recursive reset path! ath0: ath_reset: concurrent reset! Danger! ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing hid_get_item: Number of items truncated to 255 hid_get_item: Number of items truncated to 255 hid_get_item: Number of items truncated to 255 uhid0: on usbus1 uhid1: on usbus0 hid_get_item: Number of items truncated to 255 hid_get_item: Number of items truncated to 255 hid_get_item: Number of items truncated to 255 uhid2: on usbus1 ums0: on usbus0 ums0: 4 buttons and [XYZ] coordinates ID=3D0 ath0: ath_reset_grablock: didn't finish after 10 iterations ath0: ath_reset_grablock: warning, recursive reset path! ath0: ath_reset: concurrent reset! Danger! ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing ath0: ath_edma_recv_tasklet: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; skipping ath0: ath_reset_grablock: didn't finish after 10 iterations ath0: ath_reset_grablock: warning, recursive reset path! ath0: ath_reset: concurrent reset! Danger! ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing ath0: ath_raw_xmit: sc_inreset_cnt > 0; bailing [ 544.182]=20 X.Org X Server 1.12.4 Release Date: 2012-08-27 [ 544.183] X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 [ 544.183] Build Operating System: FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE-p7 amd64=20 [ 544.184] Current Operating System: FreeBSD n4rky.localhost 10.0-RELEASE= -p7 FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE-p7 #0: Tue Jul 8 06:37:44 UTC 2014 root@amd64= -builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 [ 544.187] Build Date: 20 July 2014 04:27:03AM [ 544.187] =20 [ 544.187] Current version of pixman: 0.32.4 [ 544.187] Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. [ 544.187] Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (=3D=3D) default = setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. [ 544.188] (=3D=3D) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Mon Jul 21 19:= 25:24 2014 [ 544.189] (II) Loader magic: 0x7b74f0 [ 544.189] (II) Module ABI versions: [ 544.189] X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.4 [ 544.189] X.Org Video Driver: 12.1 [ 544.189] X.Org XInput driver : 16.0 [ 544.189] X.Org Server Extension : 6.0 [ 544.191] (--) PCI:*(0:0:2:0) 8086:0166:1043:108d rev 9, Mem @ 0xf780000= 0/4194304, 0xe0000000/268435456, I/O @ 0x0000f000/64, BIOS @ 0x????????/655= 36 [ 544.212] List of video drivers: [ 544.212] r128 [ 544.212] openchrome [ 544.212] nv [ 544.213] mach64 [ 544.213] intel [ 544.213] ati [ 544.213] radeon [ 544.213] vesa [ 544.214] (II) LoadModule: "r128" [ 544.248] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/r128_drv.so [ 544.251] (EE) Failed to load /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/r128_d= rv.so: /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/r128_drv.so: Undefined symbol "m= iEmptyData" [ 544.251] (II) UnloadModule: "r128" [ 544.251] (II) Unloading r128 [ 544.251] (EE) Failed to load module "r128" (loader failed, 7) [ 544.251] (II) LoadModule: "openchrome" [ 544.256] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/openchrome_dr= v.so [ 544.267] (EE) Failed to load /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/opench= rome_drv.so: /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/openchrome_drv.so: Undefin= ed symbol "miEmptyData" [ 544.267] (II) UnloadModule: "openchrome" [ 544.267] (II) Unloading openchrome [ 544.267] (EE) Failed to load module "openchrome" (loader failed, 7) [ 544.267] (II) LoadModule: "nv" [ 544.272] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nv_drv.so [ 544.280] (EE) Failed to load /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nv_drv= =2Eso: /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nv_drv.so: Undefined symbol "miE= mptyData" [ 544.280] (II) UnloadModule: "nv" [ 544.280] (II) Unloading nv [ 544.280] (EE) Failed to load module "nv" (loader failed, 7) [ 544.280] (II) LoadModule: "mach64" [ 544.286] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/mach64_drv.so [ 544.293] (EE) Failed to load /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/mach64= _drv.so: /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/mach64_drv.so: Undefined symbo= l "miEmptyData" [ 544.293] (II) UnloadModule: "mach64" [ 544.293] (II) Unloading mach64 [ 544.293] (EE) Failed to load module "mach64" (loader failed, 7) [ 544.293] (II) LoadModule: "intel" [ 544.299] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/intel_drv.so [ 544.385] (II) Module intel: vendor=3D"X.Org Foundation" [ 544.385] compiled for 1.12.4, module version =3D 2.21.15 [ 544.385] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 544.385] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 12.1 [ 544.385] (II) LoadModule: "ati" [ 544.391] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/ati_drv.so [ 544.392] (II) Module ati: vendor=3D"X.Org Foundation" [ 544.392] compiled for 1.12.4, module version =3D 7.2.0 [ 544.392] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 544.392] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 12.1 [ 544.392] (II) LoadModule: "radeon" [ 544.398] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.so [ 544.419] (II) Module radeon: vendor=3D"X.Org Foundation" [ 544.419] compiled for 1.12.4, module version =3D 7.2.0 [ 544.419] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 544.420] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 12.1 [ 544.420] (II) LoadModule: "vesa" [ 544.426] (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/vesa_drv.so [ 544.437] (II) Module vesa: vendor=3D"X.Org Foundation" [ 544.437] compiled for 1.7.7, module version =3D 2.3.3 [ 544.438] Module class: X.Org Video Driver [ 544.438] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 6.0 [ 544.438] (EE) module ABI major version (6) doesn't match the server's v= ersion (12) [ 544.438] (II) UnloadModule: "vesa" [ 544.438] (II) Unloading vesa [ 544.438] (EE) Failed to load module "vesa" (module requirement mismatch= , 0) [ 544.439] (II) intel: Driver for Intel(R) Integrated Graphics Chipsets: i810, i810-dc100, i810e, i815, i830M, 845G, 854, 852GM/855GM, 865G, 915G, E7221 (i915), 915GM, 945G, 945GM, 945GME, Pineview GM, Pineview G, 965G, G35, 965Q, 946GZ, 965GM, 965GME/GLE, G33, Q35, Q33, GM45, 4 Series, G45/G43, Q45/Q43, G41, B43, HD Graphics, HD Graphics 2000, HD Graphics 3000, HD Graphics 2500, HD Graphics 4000, HD Graphics P4000, HD Graphics 4600, HD Graphics 5000, HD Graphics P4600/P4700, Iris(TM) Graphics 5100, HD Graphics 4400, HD Graphics 4200, Iris(TM) Pro Graphics 5200 [ 544.541] (++) Using config file: "/root/xorg.conf.new" [ 544.543] (=3D=3D) ServerLayout "X.org Configured" [ 544.543] (**) |-->Screen "Screen0" (0) [ 544.543] (**) | |-->Monitor "Monitor0" [ 544.564] (**) | |-->Device "Card0" [ 544.564] (**) |-->Input Device "Mouse0" [ 544.564] (**) |-->Input Device "Keyboard0" [ 544.564] (=3D=3D) Automatically adding devices [ 544.564] (=3D=3D) Automatically enabling devices [ 544.577] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/misc/". [ 544.577] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.577] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/"). [ 544.603] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/TTF/". [ 544.603] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.603] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/"). [ 544.629] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/Type1/". [ 544.629] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.630] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/"). [ 544.667] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/100dpi/". [ 544.667] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.667] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"). [ 544.686] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/75dpi/". [ 544.686] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.686] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/"). [ 544.686] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/misc/". [ 544.686] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.686] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/"). [ 544.686] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/TTF/". [ 544.686] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.687] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/"). [ 544.687] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/Type1/". [ 544.687] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.687] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/"). [ 544.687] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/100dpi/". [ 544.687] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.687] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"). [ 544.688] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/local/lib/X= 11/fonts/75dpi/". [ 544.688] Entry deleted from font path. [ 544.688] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/"). [ 544.688] (**) FontPath set to: /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/OTF/, /usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/OTF/ [ 544.688] (**) ModulePath set to "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" [ 544.688] (WW) Hotplugging is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' o= r 'vmmouse' will be disabled. [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Mouse0 [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Keyboard0 [ 546.330]=20 [ 546.330]=20 Xorg detected your mouse at device /dev/sysmouse. Please check your config if the mouse is still not operational, as by default Xorg tries to autodetect the protocol. [ 546.330]=20 Your xorg.conf file is /root/xorg.conf.new [ 546.330] To test the server, run 'X -config /root/xorg.conf.new' [ 546.330] Server terminated with error (2). Closing log file. Thanks! --=20 David Benfell See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you don't understand the attachment. --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTzdCTAAoJEBV64x4SNmArvQ8QALNh3NdHjb+EC1j6iy8F24Su f/kWxXMPB67qVOEsKgoLiuCXE8B67k9rQrE+mL5jTJgoG43aZ5q8CI7wAbahdab2 lXnpN230LvBkWhlpiIqPu+FHu4/k0gt3YRg2atYdszviK6NV7lp6K0Ma6mt4ECqU nBM/HuC93BUa3se/FRYIoABmSLwOknqnJKjfX+/xsK2aYJiB0AnRUwVMTE3zyumm 4au7LodYB/STQTRsI7Ut5kxXNruOWW5bCowhGaxMlshL6AvEXlultYfp4NATSHDQ ooxhpcUYqvt+JJ7ZFC81kgVVeX8dV7DLKsHWI8BSKRFjibGh/fCk+12yMjeZUrsj mHqwp4X77/puoxMq8whEOR/iyOd4SwwErZ0xa7t+By9bBv/XzOA7JN9PHb+58jsE kgheFWMSV0EYHfnWbuJ1ZfyrfYV4DIRMp6I+qcfg8QsnohzBd6wpTQmEsjkPrRYn Whsilrbz8e/RWk11agHhne8nSYoslBk4u8AKMzJwaks2sC6/iqmErs0pTLBbLbak 6ZF/rxtz1Fqr/qYZoLydJGT4uWKCmoyztz5bt3jsepwzg3f/eueeJok30dEQuhEy Y8G3UVJWgDwQ1yFO9REL4DMhQWmgr/3he1usCaqCDnURudvPtI8kFi9jMuiqJFUw KHXwu/fxSd2Gk9AhmORO =sGiM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --y0ulUmNC+osPPQO6-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 03:14:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7163E40C for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 03:14:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32ADD21E0 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 03:14:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-69-249.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.69.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F260248C6; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:14:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s6M3ENok002302; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:14:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:14:23 +0200 From: Polytropon To: David Benfell Subject: Re: All of a sudden, problems with X Message-Id: <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 03:14:33 -0000 On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:46:43 -0700, David Benfell wrote: > Now I've rebooted and I can't get Xorg working properly at all. Did you perform any updates? > Xorg -configure yields only a black (apparently not blank) screen. I > tried adding the magic to allow CTRL/ALT/BACKSPACE but it doesn't > work (yes, I rebooted after adding the magic). There currently are two magics for that: The "magic in xorg.conf" when using X without HAL, and the "magic with XML" involving the configuration files scattered across /usr/local/ when using HAL. Do you use X with or without HAL? If with, is everything running? > The only way out of the > black screen is CTRL/ALT/DEL, which reboots the system. This key combination usually does _nothing_ when within X, so if it works, it seems to suggest that you have exited X, you're back at the text mode console, but you can't see it (blank screen). > If I use startx, I get a correct display, but the mouse doesn't work. Often a problem related to HAL. Make sure you exactly follow the handbook in getting the input working. In case you have updated X, also update its "input" components. > I actually have two of them. This is a notebook system, so one is the > touchpad and the second is a Kensington trackball. The touchpad is probably represented as a PS/2 mouse (check "dmesg" output for "psm0"), and I assume the trackball is connected to USB, so it should be detected automatically. > psm0: irq 12 on atkbdc0 > psm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] > psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 This probably is your laptop's glidepad. > ums0: on usbus0 > ums0: 4 buttons and [XYZ] coordinates ID=0 And this is the trackball. >From the X log, those are disappointing: > [ 544.688] (**) ModulePath set to "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" > [ 544.688] (WW) Hotplugging is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or 'vmmouse' will be disabled. > [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Mouse0 > [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Keyboard0 > [ 546.330] > [ 546.330] > Xorg detected your mouse at device /dev/sysmouse. > Please check your config if the mouse is still not > operational, as by default Xorg tries to autodetect > the protocol. > [ 546.330] Again, check with the handbook's section about X configuration. You probably have a problem with HAL. Many people seem to have. :-) http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... 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How would I check? >=20 > > Xorg -configure yields only a black (apparently not blank) screen. I > > tried adding the magic to allow CTRL/ALT/BACKSPACE but it doesn't > > work (yes, I rebooted after adding the magic). >=20 > There currently are two magics for that: The "magic in xorg.conf" > when using X without HAL, and the "magic with XML" involving the > configuration files scattered across /usr/local/ when using HAL. > Do you use X with or without HAL? If with, is everything running? >=20 Yes, I'm running HAL. I understand this is what makes detecting a USB keyboard (I have a *full size* keyboard this way) and a USB mouse (my precious trackball) possible. service reports that hal is running. ps doesn't indicate anything amiss (at least as far as I know): hald is running as pid 1331. haldaemon 1331 0.0 0.2 60652 8528 - Is 7:27PM 0:35.85 /usr/loca= l/sb root 1332 0.0 0.1 46216 5792 - I 7:27PM 0:00.08 hald-runn= er root 1338 0.0 0.1 31860 3964 - I 7:27PM 0:00.03 hald-addo= n-mo root 1377 0.0 0.1 31860 3968 - I 7:27PM 0:00.03 hald-addo= n-mo root 1392 0.0 0.1 23260 2672 - S 7:27PM 0:06.47 hald-addo= n-st root 1539 0.0 0.1 18732 2148 v3 S+ 8:51PM 0:00.01 grep hal >=20 >=20 > > The only way out of the > > black screen is CTRL/ALT/DEL, which reboots the system. >=20 > This key combination usually does _nothing_ when within X, so if > it works, it seems to suggest that you have exited X, you're back > at the text mode console, but you can't see it (blank screen). >=20 So how would I get a prompt back in this situation? >=20 >=20 > > If I use startx, I get a correct display, but the mouse doesn't work. >=20 > Often a problem related to HAL. Make sure you exactly follow the > handbook in getting the input working. In case you have updated X, > also update its "input" components. >=20 Okay, so see above. When installing the system (it's a fairly fresh installation), I really didn't have to do anything to make all this work. One of the very first things I installed was gnome2 and I set the relevant variables for HAL, dbus, and gnome. But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if an input component hasn't been updated properly. Is there a sane way of making sure all this is done right? >=20 >=20 > > I actually have two of them. This is a notebook system, so one is the > > touchpad and the second is a Kensington trackball. >=20 > The touchpad is probably represented as a PS/2 mouse (check "dmesg" > output for "psm0"), and I assume the trackball is connected to USB, > so it should be detected automatically. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > psm0: irq 12 on atkbdc0 > > psm0: [GIANT-LOCKED] > > psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 >=20 > This probably is your laptop's glidepad. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > ums0: on usbus0 > > ums0: 4 buttons and [XYZ] coordinates ID=3D0 >=20 > And this is the trackball. >=20 >=20 >=20 > From the X log, those are disappointing: >=20 > > [ 544.688] (**) ModulePath set to "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" > > [ 544.688] (WW) Hotplugging is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mous= e' or 'vmmouse' will be disabled. > > [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Mouse0 > > [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Keyboard0 > > [ 546.330]=20 > > [ 546.330]=20 > > Xorg detected your mouse at device /dev/sysmouse. > > Please check your config if the mouse is still not > > operational, as by default Xorg tries to autodetect > > the protocol. > > [ 546.330]=20 >=20 > Again, check with the handbook's section about X configuration. > You probably have a problem with HAL. Many people seem to have. :-) >=20 > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html >=20 > http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html These seem to assume I have an xorg.conf. I was getting by without. And Xorg -configure doesn't work. So now what? thanks! --=20 David Benfell See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you don't understand the attachment. --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTzeLYAAoJEBV64x4SNmArcXsP/3v04xCgg9KRGqtOswRuSgDP WHIyyIyk3sNgb7/DdwV4M4yuUDLZLB0X5SFBL3yYuGGFs7kY5YqAC3mZYOdOI+6r UH8oXOdGSC679lB0H2Gf9ftfKIInYbyWWoqmFxwv2y1MVXf/dik0RaWAmYEgH4ZB E1Qd8edXEQE37uzMOVA0Gc+81z7uPymiJq83Pusa4IHKmdBwP/kTjOyZ16j/Fdrj eqOgEJW7pgOndcZzZgEUFdC9C5n2Rs+e8eNqI7pntCGj6WgZk6tygZKKsM3cq9oL 845ojZ5JI88cCTRBB77KCDZ/zHFHBsp7XsRBlwYJYb/IG9pnkZjJmNxrpslCqYvu +Vy4t5uhafmdi2N4/kfKeoUV1+5BY+7BB5Tfq2h+uC0l/Ey/MqT7uSx+ss+hFM5D MkWWbpynltW+ub4dQUKHaLe8aN8dxq7VNOVIAitMt0wC54AojtTE29hmTlo7pK+z TUFGb1GP3W1X0OI7mJ0ZoDl1bRAJgCgWRwoTVPGPOpkM6TEr15TfhcLParycWOn/ KHIof3zHi6ACzJDf5jtrHNh5ppG1vy9MnQOQGWR0PmHi7kliP5FdfcohfycM67QS 1E01FyR1jeSOhOLGXuvasgbIB7Y1Pvbw1TtxsJxM3o4u4GB3f4XnQNZwoUdjwjw0 G2OLw+VOl8IPE9b4pENC =Xs0W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 04:19:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 281B4D4E for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:19:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B70EC26B4 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:19:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-69-249.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.69.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F7FF2760D; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:19:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s6M4J0gq002579; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:19:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:19:00 +0200 From: Polytropon To: David Benfell Subject: Re: All of a sudden, problems with X Message-Id: <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:19:05 -0000 On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:04:40 -0700, David Benfell wrote: > On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 05:14:23AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 19:46:43 -0700, David Benfell wrote: > > > Now I've rebooted and I can't get Xorg working properly at all. > > > > Did you perform any updates? > > > Yes, having pondered the situation since my original message, it > occurs to me there may be a mismatch between Xorg compiled from a port > (I think it may have been rebuilt) and a driver installed via pkg. How > would I check? The easiest thing now would be to remove X and a) install it _and_ its dependencies from ports, ports tree updated of course b) install it via pkg. I've been installing a FreeBSD 10 system with X (defaulting to HAL) via pkg, and this worked after following the required steps as per the handbook. > > > Xorg -configure yields only a black (apparently not blank) screen. I > > > tried adding the magic to allow CTRL/ALT/BACKSPACE but it doesn't > > > work (yes, I rebooted after adding the magic). > > > > There currently are two magics for that: The "magic in xorg.conf" > > when using X without HAL, and the "magic with XML" involving the > > configuration files scattered across /usr/local/ when using HAL. > > Do you use X with or without HAL? If with, is everything running? > > > Yes, I'm running HAL. I understand this is what makes detecting a USB > keyboard (I have a *full size* keyboard this way) and a USB mouse (my > precious trackball) possible. > > service reports that hal is running. ps doesn't indicate anything > amiss (at least as far as I know): > > hald is running as pid 1331. Good, as this is a requirement, it has been verified. You can't be cautious enough. :-) > > > The only way out of the > > > black screen is CTRL/ALT/DEL, which reboots the system. > > > > This key combination usually does _nothing_ when within X, so if > > it works, it seems to suggest that you have exited X, you're back > > at the text mode console, but you can't see it (blank screen). > > > So how would I get a prompt back in this situation? That's a really hard question. :-) In situatins where X is exiting, but failing to restore the text mode console, there usually is no real way to cure this problem. I had a comparable problem with my nVidia graphics card when switching to text mode from a running X with the Ctrl+Alt+PF1 key combination - black screen, "no signal", switched back Ctrl+Alt+PF9 - X as expected, and back Ctrl+Alt+PF1 - and the text mode was there. However, when X is _not_ running, switching "back and forth" is impossible. You could try to blindly enter "startx" and hope it helps. It probably won't help... > > > If I use startx, I get a correct display, but the mouse doesn't work. > > > > Often a problem related to HAL. Make sure you exactly follow the > > handbook in getting the input working. In case you have updated X, > > also update its "input" components. > > > Okay, so see above. When installing the system (it's a fairly fresh > installation), I really didn't have to do anything to make all this > work. One of the very first things I installed was gnome2 and I set > the relevant variables for HAL, dbus, and gnome. Me too - I installed a FreeBSD 10 system using pkg and with Gnome (and gdm). Not everything worked as expected from the past, especially keyboard language settings had to be done differently (see "HAL XML magic"), and automount was a total desaster. Somehow, I still got it working... can't even remember how... :-) > But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if an input component hasn't > been updated properly. Is there a sane way of making sure all this is > done right? Remove X and dependencies, install them again in a "contiguous" manner as mentioned. This will probably be faster and easier than trying to "repair" the current situation. However, a "pkg update" would at least be worth a try. > > From the X log, those are disappointing: > > > > > [ 544.688] (**) ModulePath set to "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" > > > [ 544.688] (WW) Hotplugging is on, devices using drivers 'kbd', 'mouse' or 'vmmouse' will be disabled. > > > [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Mouse0 > > > [ 544.688] (WW) Disabling Keyboard0 > > > [ 546.330] > > > [ 546.330] > > > Xorg detected your mouse at device /dev/sysmouse. > > > Please check your config if the mouse is still not > > > operational, as by default Xorg tries to autodetect > > > the protocol. > > > [ 546.330] > > > > Again, check with the handbook's section about X configuration. > > You probably have a problem with HAL. Many people seem to have. :-) > > > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x-config.html > > > > http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/aei.html > > These seem to assume I have an xorg.conf. I was getting by without. > And Xorg -configure doesn't work. So now what? If you don't have (and don't need) a xorg.conf, you also don't need to run "Xorg -configure" (because this only generates that file). Running X without xorg.conf works fine these days, and if you're running HAL anyway, it should be fine not to bother. As I said, I did everything as listed in the handbook to get things working. Having an "as clean as possible" starting situation helps. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 05:16:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A98558C3 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:16:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pa0-f43.google.com (mail-pa0-f43.google.com [209.85.220.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8050C2B23 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:16:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id lf10so11240081pab.16 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:16:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=hoqlVStzQcdN0g9mzV+qcXSNGE7XcQhdZVJrfm6TlhY=; b=PBJoMbE489XLaERylhDjJxSq18d58+z/mAA9/ko5npgXG+gIajO1/ezUSn5WX19phP nhFp7zCIhsQ8x6T59FN6GR66C0qku05Fbm0z0LuFv8UkEx2OktjuwQqVoLRekecGF0hs cyjc+akw/P0MooKGtkZsfMx64eImsO2HziHBGI3jSIJcr4CGvN3AQbmsAuoj7DLW8Qqa F/jUlj+gcL+hjVp2R/8D8c0FDmaE9ZRjyL2tWsKrZPwve/3hCUM62jJF2jaMmAiW1JjT nr6+GNQ4j29gJK9ZI2WBhR4Ms3QHReKhReqfwmTMHhMb7nvsKB0gyOJStNQz9+cegxgT sA/g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlc7orK/tvvCA2rIJwIsknj2sK4Q/HQrOpufW6lbl6cM+evQHOuaJMRGUGGuQdhEYzjB9qW X-Received: by 10.70.34.73 with SMTP id x9mr30251221pdi.27.1406005671423; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [100.87.220.183] (KD182250236022.au-net.ne.jp. [182.250.236.22]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j17sm20524220pdl.31.2014.07.21.22.07.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:07:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Kiwamu Nishio Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: h Message-Id: Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:07:46 +0900 To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B554a) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:16:09 -0000 iPhone$B$+$iAw?.(B From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 05:21:40 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFB1FB36 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:21:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (munich.parts-unknown.org [193.34.144.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD9432BC5 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:21:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 824BC12C108D; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3FF3A12C10D0; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:21:37 -0700 (PDT) References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> From: David Benfell To: Polytropon Subject: SOLVED: Re: All of a sudden, problems with X Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:21:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_munich.parts-unknown.org-4000-1406006496-0001"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-Id: <20140722052137.3FF3A12C10D0@mail.parts-unknown.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:21:41 -0000 This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages. The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996. To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet software that supports modern Internet standards. --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-4000-1406006496-0001 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Polytropon writes: > > The easiest thing now would be to remove X and > > a) install it _and_ its dependencies from ports, > ports tree updated of course I think this is what I did. The command I used was: portmaster -w -r xorg-server The problem reported here now seems to be solved. I have a mouse again. I haven't tried Xorg -configure, but I've got fluxbox working from startx again. And I haven't tried gdm to see if all this latest has fixed whatever was wrong there. It does seem there are some gotchas with this latest version of Xorg. One is that it attempts to respond to my mismatched dual-head setup. It didn't get screen dimensions right at all and fell back to an ugly common denominator. It happens the big beautiful screen is destined for a server that should be arriving in a couple days anyway, so I'm just disconnecting it a bit early. The small notebook screen will suffice until then. Thanks! -- David Benfell See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you do not understand the attachment. --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-4000-1406006496-0001 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIVAwUAU8304BV64x4SNmArAQrmuw//eFe3gP0hJTejY9WwqgvJWq4d0YiUE3nT uWN7FTopNmxvtRdwfOH7H42KORoBMFSGR4UPcpVQzDJaGVGd1utkzzKCx6DiGy8j MyVMJ29AJGvTrKJbMx5bIMNuWrjkvZ3J5lGJ9JMpGkO9yipSsO5zLpKJ/Pk0wUeU ua6LYQkeU9mSk3oQPViuoGnKxV1d7U67sUhFiTjVk2h3lTcrSAXnep3puM+QEKct 16sJfkYLMrHGxVqhxkcjwnqFoJl4+STAD5dVoepMmnL1hmNB1RCpS1lE1d8kwRtV WSWSJpxlNSXiKdr8KkzzhjaBN1IYy/o9U6Rd3Ulurukrrr6WN8uOdLgupOhkih6s qFLsBfGp+Y5vm+b9dw/diw77aLGcSrEkaPfxvpkQkvfRG97ifwl+nna764yD6qg8 FBg4NrhJpdJehR1aaZEJLP5G/ExlxLWeQZu0lWbO8VjVYsVHzvVJ/l44soEKUnq9 wxhkEtiKdMUkVnLW+53z25o+dAEt0iqlGp/1MBncATZ1wMYOTWyQ1gCrhsVQTeoJ kqE3+E+YgaHsdxBigsJONqFhEMYBsfi5Hfw4cNqXYnjKVDtdXQSusIRApAIHV+Wc /qIQhWtOkdi2+kZegJ+ldB3R7/ooR4j5zXOiZfihXFaQ6lkPbTOifSNEiXJ/NP0H whiP0ALVvQ8= =WH7m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-4000-1406006496-0001-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 05:28:27 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF4E0D11 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:28:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B03492C0F for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:28:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-69-249.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.69.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7100250AE; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:28:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s6M5SN3h002837; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:28:24 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:28:23 +0200 From: Polytropon To: David Benfell Subject: Re: SOLVED: Re: All of a sudden, problems with X Message-Id: <20140722072823.5c6eeb4c.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20140722052137.3FF3A12C10D0@mail.parts-unknown.org> References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722052137.3FF3A12C10D0@mail.parts-unknown.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:28:28 -0000 On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:21:36 -0700, David Benfell wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > > > The easiest thing now would be to remove X and > > > > a) install it _and_ its dependencies from ports, > > ports tree updated of course > > I think this is what I did. The command I used was: > > portmaster -w -r xorg-server > > The problem reported here now seems to be solved. I have a mouse again. After a ports tree update, this would be the clean solution. All dependencies (like xf86-input-keyboard and xf86-input-mouse) will then be "in sync" again with the other X components. > I > haven't tried Xorg -configure, but I've got fluxbox working from startx > again. If your X works without a xorg.conf, you can omit this step. > And I haven't tried gdm to see if all this latest has fixed whatever > was wrong there. You could try xdm as a graphical login manager (I use it myself on my home desktop - it's fast and free of bloat). > It does seem there are some gotchas with this latest version of Xorg. One > is that it attempts to respond to my mismatched dual-head setup. It didn't > get screen dimensions right at all and fell back to an ugly common > denominator. It happens the big beautiful screen is destined for a server > that should be arriving in a couple days anyway, so I'm just disconnecting > it a bit early. The small notebook screen will suffice until then. For settings like dual-screen, having a _partial_ xorg.conf might be a usable solution, i. e., you only define those parts like screen location and dimensions as needed, and have X and HAL recognize automatically all the other parts for the setup. I'm going with a HAL-less X myself at home, with xorg.conf and two 21" CRTs so old that no autodetection magic will ever work, so "the old way" is still possible if technically required. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 06:07:52 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0850647 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:07:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (munich.parts-unknown.org [193.34.144.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ED902F27 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:07:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DC412C10D0; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5487612C10D1; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:07:49 -0700 (PDT) References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> From: David Benfell To: Polytropon Subject: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:07:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_munich.parts-unknown.org-12720-1406009268-0001"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-Id: <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:07:52 -0000 This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages. The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996. To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet software that supports modern Internet standards. --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-12720-1406009268-0001 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Polytropon writes: >> So how would I get a prompt back in this situation? > > That's a really hard question. :-) > > In situatins where X is exiting, but failing to restore the > text mode console, there usually is no real way to cure this > problem. I had a comparable problem with my nVidia graphics > card when switching to text mode from a running X with the > Ctrl+Alt+PF1 key combination - black screen, "no signal", > switched back Ctrl+Alt+PF9 - X as expected, and back Ctrl+Alt+PF1 - > and the text mode was there. However, when X is _not_ running, > switching "back and forth" is impossible. You could try to > blindly enter "startx" and hope it helps. It probably won't > help... There is a note in UPDATING (did I read it beforehand? Of course not.) about some video chips--including Intel, which mine is--that says that Ctrl/Alt/F[n] won't work. Apparently X isn't cleaning up after itself correctly when exiting either. So the message here seems to be, once you start X, you'd better be happy with it. Because you might not be leaving (short of a reboot). But what this also suggests is that, should I need it, the Xorg.conf.new I generated might actually be okay. Because it's the exit that's screwed up rather than anything to do with the configuration. Thanks again! -- David Benfell See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you do not understand the attachment. --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-12720-1406009268-0001 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIVAwUAU83/tBV64x4SNmArAQpGNA//dvYFyT9F2eG/KswcSzVcCzDM5ZtLMmV/ cj8/nxbE2pMZnulpigg02TSzYjAG0EK5ftRNsLC9DffsCwaqO6uGpgHUiZsVJwMr 0pfh5pBbwagwO4YsR72aau37LuiAfgrx2VUXVJEjWTn67ostsl7RIbRXjH9ikvRo JeJZhkYprteiaigckZoF2eYPgOTXYouVd1aF79bp1OHB9u1la1ApHSrgcAtbAAao a8/OFZ9vZeDsbFcVV6rXzQUcG74DQzLuGqfcp0VESYCd7dopXhFJoQ7K4iAQ9OUj LY27qv4EQ0P46wwLBzSu1SCI93ED5jCyIopiLHC9tKr/dHZMiUnJL/T3za1SFUve 3rndF307I5ULl2q9We609CUqfz7CF6JLBmkiQdG3jra5xOfXw9L2bQ5W/ILWmpde 5faenCeY7w8ttmhZu9s2QV0ptVIMljZSrkGHAlY9WWXghT/oOuEXkpRaom4ovW8u FAqNcpa1xozfxVNmpWBYHacc4CNXYWPryfz1tZtKteMoSu4dc/0yXXpcWkbMAGnD DjbhuLp+5ipiIYrjnNnHiqUWeFxWbyuTyvf8v/2Hq/yzIMlJYsBhrY2/kijAS4RX CeZybHbrh6Q123/fx9a+TWZjZjRXOXUiVLJ38INCqee/YzBUkpRrtcc44yl4BysF mRvr8gdwjEQ= =1bmU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-12720-1406009268-0001-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 09:48:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 746994FF for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from titan.solardns.com (titan.solardns.com [213.229.107.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3363E2170 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:48:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cpc2-nott15-2-0-cust200.12-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.19.24.201]:43608 helo=sd.swampdog) by titan.solardns.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1X9Wg6-003gSf-4p for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:48:10 +0100 From: Guy Harrison To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: squid & steam Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:47:47 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <201407192216.46247.guy.harrison@swampdog.co.uk> <20140720131435.5f20ac46@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20140720131435.5f20ac46@gumby.homeunix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201407221047.47321.guy.harrison@swampdog.co.uk> X--MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X--MailScanner-ID: 1X9Wg6-003gSf-4p X--MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X--MailScanner-SpamCheck: X--MailScanner-From: guy.harrison@swampdog.co.uk X-Spam-Status: No X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - titan.solardns.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - swampdog.co.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: titan.solardns.com: authenticated_id: swampdog/from_h X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:48:20 -0000 Hi, Still waiting upon steam on this one but fwiw I believe I've narrowed it down to.. .*\.akamaihd\.net ..but I'll have to leave it there for the moment until this hayfever bout passes! On Sunday 20 July 2014 13:14:35 RW wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 22:16:46 +0100 > > Guy Harrison wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I'm sure this is down to my stupidity but has anyone else seen this > > page.. https://store.steampowered.com/account/ > > ..come up with a white background & most of the links broken? > > > > Works fine when I bypass squid. I ask here because I recently updated > > squid to.. > > I'm using squid and that page looks fine to me. It's an https page so > the browser should just request a CONNECT to tunnel through squid to > the origin server. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 10:52:39 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BD96CF4 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:52:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1BE226BA for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:52:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MAqOcC095281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:52:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MAqOtg095278; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:52:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:52:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: David Benfell Subject: Re: All of a sudden, problems with X In-Reply-To: <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> Message-ID: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:52:25 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:52:39 -0000 On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, David Benfell wrote: > Yes, I'm running HAL. I understand this is what makes detecting a USB > keyboard (I have a *full size* keyboard this way) and a USB mouse (my > precious trackball) possible. Not exactly. HAL provides hot-plugging, recognition of keyboards or mice that are connected after X has started. The latest versions of the FreeBSD port have support for doing this through devd. Without either, mice and keyboards work, but only if they were connected when X started. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 10:54:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1698CE12 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:54:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B792226DF for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:54:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MAsSud095780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:54:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MAsSUQ095777; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:54:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:54:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: David Benfell Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X In-Reply-To: <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> Message-ID: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:54:33 -0000 On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, David Benfell wrote: > There is a note in UPDATING (did I read it beforehand? Of course not.) about > some video chips--including Intel, which mine is--that says that > Ctrl/Alt/F[n] won't work. Apparently X isn't cleaning up after itself > correctly when exiting either. > > So the message here seems to be, once you start X, you'd better be happy with > it. Because you might not be leaving (short of a reboot). > > But what this also suggests is that, should I need it, the Xorg.conf.new I > generated might actually be okay. Because it's the exit that's screwed up > rather than anything to do with the configuration. The vt(4) console driver included with 10-stable and 9-stable solves this: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 12:07:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16E79E71 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:07:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-x229.google.com (mail-vc0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFB642DE5 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:07:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id hu12so14840502vcb.14 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:07:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsd.com.br; s=capeta; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8bdbX2zvFNoBL2Mqd0XcDQ1AwIOa2SmUZbgX0PrQ5pE=; b=QTGxXE2lFtz3SarMByeCCwbQDmK5W31FubeQrOLk+wAKBo9f5KLgsNuAJz2KRQDcfS lVVBKOnh1W6BOH8W6qEf/027TtU0fSha3Fhyi8YtII1TMXHv5zVmeCgzUErClw0pufi4 TCyxuySADFkXXeOfrHpWxDU6cmXKvWqhsVkXc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=8bdbX2zvFNoBL2Mqd0XcDQ1AwIOa2SmUZbgX0PrQ5pE=; b=GyX/+WVMbEhyg/LzFGIxpbzJHByK8/QQOpWpSIdMcaHX+elowOQ43fxI8awerv/J3d l9q40MxJaOlBDKYsHVykZG34VZbHhw3518A06eb4l6m9DIJe3U3goMAQxX8m1JlO1Fsm WoXGjci5lYtFlx0okXbmVDYifZBe3wBKFRuaHShZyXwT8AFnBbA2U80Bf2x8cMQm5ECh 6DN1IOY6tekayVe/ooEKJwZ0ITGmInibVMzYIAcuxdyDmfVnIq3pORBdn/yIVKbdUFEH M0qCyLUNXwL3OWYP8UZZDtXO2RVsamkW8T2m9WUxbgLGlejd9xdYCy/LkZ1HKSEQraHB yZpA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmV4mQ+6X4J8DlVKIOAv/M0akjWXoPVFmYb0NV3aEVVKI7YuL+xQOiVfMAah029PN9F4Com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.115.101 with SMTP id jn5mr16895709vdb.65.1406030872182; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.185.162 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:07:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:07:52 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X From: Mario Lobo To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:07:55 -0000 2014-07-22 7:54 GMT-03:00 Warren Block : > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, David Benfell wrote: > > There is a note in UPDATING (did I read it beforehand? Of course not.) >> about some video chips--including Intel, which mine is--that says that >> Ctrl/Alt/F[n] won't work. Apparently X isn't cleaning up after itself >> correctly when exiting either. >> >> So the message here seems to be, once you start X, you'd better be happy >> with it. Because you might not be leaving (short of a reboot). >> >> But what this also suggests is that, should I need it, the Xorg.conf.new >> I generated might actually be okay. Because it's the exit that's screwed up >> rather than anything to do with the configuration. >> > > The vt(4) console driver included with 10-stable and 9-stable solves this: > https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Where is vt? here is what I have. ------------------------------------------------------------- [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>grep vt_vga * # marioLAP/root [08:57:34] [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>ls DEFAULTS GENERIC GENERIC.hints LOBO LOBO.ori Makefile NOTES # marioLAP/root [08:57:40] [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>grep vt * GENERIC:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device LOBO:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device NOTES:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device # marioLAP/root [08:57:52] [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>man vt No manual entry for vt # marioLAP/root [08:58:29] [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>uname -a FreeBSD marioLAP 10.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE #0 r268524M: Fri Jul 11 17:05:59 BRT 2014 root@LOBO:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/LOBO amd64 ------------------------------------------------------------- Although it says RELEASE, it was svned from STABLE. Thanks, -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since version 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!] (99,7% winfoes FREE) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 12:33:11 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1008593 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:33:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x22f.google.com (mail-we0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4553B20C9 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:33:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f175.google.com with SMTP id t60so9063551wes.34 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:33:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oYTw9miMeikkZu5MAOsWcTSTlcBJ2WlVlhDM8aCMUXI=; b=uYe6NHSBHu7QmH60v5s+f1w3gjTx4pLqgTO+sfIZZACORIGmhNZcEx3wqLlwzNP5YD GrcirCG+hgHDHOp7jayVKNhJ0O56sqHefrSXxGonHllIiBmAqFk8um/EUPDI8QOmXBDY pMnS4uG9sJYOoeOH0vk2TVTgi33PeuX+pn+mr1d9S6IxLj6FmvpaAEa1wPgz1clzywtV Ej/IoBRpxl8rLTql6AVxh+jmv1uLuKrG5V4SCHbzrtuhhx5SCjj0ThW//MqiER7BGjyH ro8Ug2+wEQTDkLH4IKhM9CvyKvYfrCcGwGlqK7Je5OhbVN+ixkFVr13WJi9i+yclXgDH Wj/w== X-Received: by 10.180.211.237 with SMTP id nf13mr14458774wic.47.1406032389363; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:33:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hi2sm685072wjb.29.2014.07.22.05.33.07 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 05:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:33:05 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:33:11 -0000 On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:23:42 +0100 krad wrote: > You seem to be getting away from your initial statement, which you > said zfs would make it worse, and journaled ufs. I really dont see > this being the case, yes there are scenarios where u will get a > screwed pool, but thats the case with any file system. Would you rather lose a third of your books, or a third of the chapters from all your books? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 12:57:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61452AD1 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:57:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09EE4230D for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:57:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MCvmqW028749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MCvmoc028746; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:57:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Mario Lobo Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:57:53 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Mario Lobo wrote: > 2014-07-22 7:54 GMT-03:00 Warren Block : > >> The vt(4) console driver included with 10-stable and 9-stable solves >> this: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons > > Where is vt? > > # marioLAP/root [08:57:40] > [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>grep vt * > GENERIC:device          vtnet           # VirtIO Ethernet device > LOBO:device             vtnet           # VirtIO Ethernet device > NOTES:device            vtnet           # VirtIO Ethernet device > > # marioLAP/root [08:57:52] > [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>man vt > No manual entry for vt > > # marioLAP/root [08:58:29] > [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>uname -a > FreeBSD marioLAP 10.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE #0 r268524M: Fri Jul 11 17:05:59 BRT 2014     root@LOBO:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/LOBO  amd64 > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Although it says RELEASE, it was svned from STABLE. Verify that with 'svn info'--a build of stable shows in the uname. vt(4) is part of GENERIC as of r268366: % grep vt /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC # vt is the new video console driver device vt device vt_vga device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 13:34:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2244409 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:34:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-x22e.google.com (mail-vc0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A56932692 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:34:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id la4so14936081vcb.19 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:34:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsd.com.br; s=capeta; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=cNwvKlqyM+TjVLVYET/8zVnHUVwihtjXV6Sbh/Bcsqw=; b=RAzmL6qXNXUfjFpuArNOT0W1uLQEYQd2AsOKoKQlfG5LgNFg4wk2oYLKRQuA7zBoZe kJGfG0UIBgNfsglMldeZHMNJ6cAlo66EmLxEGvSCNJkvvEIDQWPtCFPho9QLS6MxW0qw YYndGC0l8cleq+QmZVSbhN3Snz4cl7H6XOKwc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=cNwvKlqyM+TjVLVYET/8zVnHUVwihtjXV6Sbh/Bcsqw=; b=PC5PrRpcGKPms6BT1nm0LcVvXF1wzyB/xIsHoWJFY7egjv0+1NA/HyEWjmBijeTWTh mSloBphbkutesb575ge0ff6g2udmsZVn4Di5ri2jhH8fBQiPNF9WSL6zZgO5MJNeJXAU 9ajcj23XCs1l1T1sQ0NHNEEgDLLBHGyhjwiVCKuzeRSppBbKrxAebRCrqEORMGfGqNmo ZameOYUinGEyeh+k/KUqkIbHACEYM9KjDPf263vQrdtKtcj++/6BYRl2/3Rkv4vhD01f jW+ITZhEL4r8A5yf9HsJVdAX18JKBnOWhyTKBZCLoc3Nvf5aevSZo+jp8UhVNR/qIqqk 97wg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmR1b06ruC5vJtIjp5Oyo6BxdIOXquacrm3k0zAJb3qZ929fDSIxmyq0hcM9eQ4sOZonqxh MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.186.103 with SMTP id fj7mr24324796vdc.53.1406036083247; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.185.162 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 06:34:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:34:43 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X From: Mario Lobo To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:34:46 -0000 2014-07-22 9:57 GMT-03:00 Warren Block : > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Mario Lobo wrote: > >> 2014-07-22 7:54 GMT-03:00 Warren Block : >> >> The vt(4) console driver included with 10-stable and 9-stable solves >>> this: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons >>> >> >> Where is vt? >> >> >> # marioLAP/root [08:57:40] >> [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>grep vt * >> GENERIC:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device >> LOBO:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device >> NOTES:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device >> >> # marioLAP/root [08:57:52] >> [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>man vt >> No manual entry for vt >> >> # marioLAP/root [08:58:29] >> [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>uname -a >> FreeBSD marioLAP 10.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE #0 r268524M: Fri Jul >> 11 17:05:59 BRT 2014 root@LOBO:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/LOBO amd64 >> ------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Although it says RELEASE, it was svned from STABLE. >> > > Verify that with 'svn info'--a build of stable shows in the uname. vt(4) > is part of GENERIC as of r268366: > > % grep vt /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC > # vt is the new video console driver > device vt > device vt_vga > > device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device > Still a no-go :( # marioLAP/root [10:31:45] [/usr/src]>svn info Path: . Working Copy Root Path: /usr/src URL: https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 Relative URL: ^/stable/10 Repository Root: https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base Repository UUID: ccf9f872-aa2e-dd11-9fc8-001c23d0bc1f Revision: 268524 Node Kind: directory Schedule: normal Last Changed Author: delphij Last Changed Rev: 268519 Last Changed Date: 2014-07-10 21:26:57 -0300 (Thu, 10 Jul 2014) # marioLAP/root [10:31:48] [/usr/src]>grep vt /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device Thanks, -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since version 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!] (99,7% winfoes FREE) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 14:10:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 637DDE5F for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:10:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E76E29DE for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:10:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHhNn2m6vzCy1s for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:03:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id 9jxCCqjsIeLP for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:03:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHhNn1k7GzCy1q for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:03:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 279401B7580 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:03:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:03:29 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Migrating users from Linux Message-ID: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> Organization: MediaConsultants srl X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:10:02 -0000 Still in the process of migrating all my Linux servers to FreeBSD, I'm now trying to move out a couple of thousands users created in a twenty years timespan from a linux server. Of course I need to keep uid and gid, though the juicy part is... the passwords! I have them only in encrypted form and in different algorythms (DES, Blowfish, ...) and the happily coexist. Con they be used as they are in Freebsd? Thanks a lot again, luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 14:28:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED5BA37E for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:28:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x235.google.com (mail-qg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0DDC2BC5 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:28:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f53.google.com with SMTP id q107so7021649qgd.40 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:28:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=vK2PidskBOkSUf6jJaHXRkArAXKLhfMhPPv/0OaiFVA=; b=BvlwIzdI5lQYpu7Mcxl21R4LdsnlPACaIXuZFnQ/THLWiMyitpR0DnQR00lS3Jv9O5 Erl/XGSUNsuan6wrBZNyK1hmxd6VjGQPSosHdohH7s3iES8TXCPdrZ80kaRQwRb/wOYs KXNPYlgHwnGhxLrSyIJXhFzO2TyFvnE8EbHLdJZV0TVMzSTasRnMaHPYPgsjQa5yCX/Z xIoLp4/tVuxr0WWbkr79QGT/5iLlMWhhbrbSZgwYrIhQK/Q/1Ql/Q/KGwbmnI97C6hNS 2H3IbevMS94q8vKLj+oxa4YMV0zlSWzUVmmnjDG3C6uhgQhfnkEadKnRkEkxEzU6x/+x /lWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.47.8 with SMTP id l8mr56495774qaf.30.1406039282312; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Sender: olivier2553@gmail.com Received: by 10.140.29.133 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 07:28:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:28:02 +0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: VD6V2m3gQfghxHPNFZV434-kT_w Message-ID: Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux From: Olivier Nicole To: Luciano Mannucci Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:28:04 -0000 Luciano, > Still in the process of migrating all my Linux servers to FreeBSD, I'm > now trying to move out a couple of thousands users created in a twenty > years timespan from a linux server. > Of course I need to keep uid and gid, though the juicy part is... > the passwords! I have them only in encrypted form and in different > algorythms (DES, Blowfish, ...) and the happily coexist. Con they > be used as they are in Freebsd? Time to set-up a LDAP server, where you register all your user names. For the password, you will have to ask them to re-register/go through the change password once. The advantage is that you will be done for ever. Bests, Olivier > > Thanks a lot again, > > luciano. > -- > /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) > \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 > X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG > / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 14:46:38 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63A64BE0 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:46:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sbg-out.inti.gob.ar (sbg-out.inti.gov.ar [200.10.161.69]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6902DEE for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:46:37 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: c80aa145-f790a6d000000dff-d7-53ce75c1de87 Received: from [200.10.161.55] (jb.inti.gov.ar [200.10.161.55]) (using TLS with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by sbg-out.inti.gob.ar (SMTP_INTI) with SMTP id 19.05.03583.1C57EC35; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:31:29 -0300 (ART) Message-ID: <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:31:26 -0300 From: Juan Bernhard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> In-Reply-To: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsVygmuhue7B0nPBBk+Xi1u8/LqJxYHRY8an +SwBjFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGTeb57MWPGOrmHBoIVsD42rWLkZODgkBE4kDt6ezQNhiEhfu rWfrYuTiEBLoYpJYPukcWBGvgIbE4lW7mUFsFgFViT3HOphAbDYBNYmvZ06B1YgKRElcmN/D CFEvKHFy5hOwoSICihJnzjSC1QgLqEu0L13GBmILCehK3Nj5AqyGU0BPYtmLqWBxZgEdiXd9 D5ghbHmJ5q2zmScw8s1CMnYWkrJZSMoWMDKvYhQuTkrXzS8t0QOGUaZeen6SXmLRJkZIOLnu YNy7Tv0QowAHoxIP74bLZ4OFWBPLiitzDzFKcDArifDOKTwXLMSbklhZlVqUH19UmpNafIhR moNFSZw3WPpIsJBAemJJanZqakFqEUyWiYNTqoGRq6pu49H9tyy/LkgLYs2ezfFD7Kehq6ti K69VyCRWpgvHZOzLPK84yj1S3G/5ZzXHWbv3BRfXTL1/x/P3n5sPl7gKMobYFB2wMSjenLni hyeTQPQP682PWK4a136e/m4D++Ev3Es/3/M/qnJM9NWtWwHxwZvOn35xV+Qwv7fyc/ZXLLM4 fv9JVmIpzkg01GIuKk4EAFSlXuUjAgAA X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:46:38 -0000 El 22/07/2014 11:03 a.m., Luciano Mannucci escribi: > > Still in the process of migrating all my Linux servers to FreeBSD, I'm > now trying to move out a couple of thousands users created in a twenty > years timespan from a linux server. > Of course I need to keep uid and gid, though the juicy part is... > the passwords! I have them only in encrypted form and in different > algorythms (DES, Blowfish, ...) and the happily coexist. Con they > be used as they are in Freebsd? > > Thanks a lot again, > > luciano. > I think that if you respect the fields order and values for master.password, the hash will work fine. See "man 5 master.password", and if you need to add another algorithm see "man 3 crytp" to understand in witch algorithm you have hashed the old passwords (for example, if the hash begins with $1$ is in MD5) Saludos, Juan. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 15:23:16 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97631776 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:23:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FABC21F3 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:23:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHk8f709RzCy1m for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:23:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id 8ORQ61JI6vsC for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:23:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHk8f5sY8zCy1l for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:23:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32171B7580 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:23:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:23:06 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) X-Face: 4qPv4GNcD; h<7Q/sK>+GqF4=CR@KmnPkSmwd+#%\F`4yjKO3"C]p'z=(oWRnsYBQGM\5g:4skqQY0NnV'dM:Mm:^/_+I@a"; [-s=ogufdF"9ggQ'=y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:23:16 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:28:02 +0700 Olivier Nicole wrote: > Time to set-up a LDAP server, where you register all your user names. > For the password, you will have to ask them to re-register/go through > the change password once. Would be a nice thing to do. Unfortunately, some of them are even robots, so I'd use it only as a last resort. > > The advantage is that you will be done for ever. Indeed. :) Thnks anyway, luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 15:27:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C111982 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:27:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553BD2248 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:27:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHkFm3cRBzCy1m for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:27:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id LfvwbKeknV3x for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:27:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHkFm2d92zCy1l for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:27:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3101B7580 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:27:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:27:32 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux In-Reply-To: <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) X-Face: 4qPv4GNcD; h<7Q/sK>+GqF4=CR@KmnPkSmwd+#%\F`4yjKO3"C]p'z=(oWRnsYBQGM\5g:4skqQY0NnV'dM:Mm:^/_+I@a"; [-s=ogufdF"9ggQ'=y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:27:41 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:31:26 -0300 Juan Bernhard wrote: > See "man 5 master.password", and if you need to add another algorithm > see "man 3 crytp" to understand in witch algorithm you have hashed the > old passwords (for example, if the hash begins with $1$ is in MD5) Thanks for the very usefull pointers. I'll give it a try and report back (that may be usefull for others, or even for a small howto :-). luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 15:37:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65871BE3 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:37:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-x230.google.com (mail-wg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F19AD2343 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:37:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f48.google.com with SMTP id x13so8176317wgg.19 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 08:37:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tDV2yPsTFILx7L+UslPpy/s9M9f8Rw8tcIJYGa6NzY8=; b=rNvestmE69WguRt8xKW15P1H+r4K7sHuWB17eXN2D6IHry3M4oNBcsionSbzJ/ZVVs cZcrowNBZu4wkCW+plrLaR7w25AakkkQ3oSedqkgYGJXkB+EDYlf5Z14byqOHBE5TrVp CyAPO+AK/lG3AVciLgn4dD+rLoqD0W96Zqxff9VAcC3wZq548W4qFCyLyY9bW3ZRHZkF 4CWppBhTd+ME7LcYRcTLIJu21hLxDnfamG3BN6LaCTFwGJ5EJkvMbEjfoQZqa3P/XYHc UzANgcbBf42uziaCPV+L8tngCdj3gULNId7Ld2E46OzTCKuP7fHXIseRjIPtpaVgvw/A Rwfg== X-Received: by 10.180.82.199 with SMTP id k7mr16274486wiy.34.1406043464436; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 08:37:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fw4sm3833480wib.19.2014.07.22.08.37.42 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 08:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:37:40 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux Message-ID: <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:37:48 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:31:26 -0300 Juan Bernhard wrote: >=20 > El 22/07/2014 11:03 a.m., Luciano Mannucci escribi=F3: > >=20 > > Still in the process of migrating all my Linux servers to FreeBSD, > > I'm now trying to move out a couple of thousands users created in a > > twenty years timespan from a linux server. > > Of course I need to keep uid and gid, though the juicy part is... > > the passwords! I have them only in encrypted form and in different > > algorythms (DES, Blowfish, ...) and the happily coexist. Con they > > be used as they are in Freebsd? > >=20 > > Thanks a lot again, > >=20 > > luciano. > >=20 >=20 > I think that if you respect the fields order and values for > master.password, the hash will work fine. > See "man 5 master.password", and if you need to add another algorithm > see "man 3 crytp" to understand in witch algorithm you have hashed the > old passwords (for example, if the hash begins with $1$ is in MD5) I very much doubt that. FreeBSDs MD5 is a complicated iterative hash not just MD5. Even where Linux uses the same algorithm for a hash, there's no standard for the number of interations. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 15:42:11 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EF04E36 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:42:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 205AE2407 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:42:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MFg7Qj072326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MFg6N0072323; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:42:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Mario Lobo Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:42:11 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Mario Lobo wrote: > 2014-07-22 9:57 GMT-03:00 Warren Block : > > Verify that with 'svn info'--a build of stable shows in the uname. vt(4) is part of GENERIC as of r268366: > > % grep vt /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC > # vt is the new video console driver > device          vt > device          vt_vga > device          vtnet                   # VirtIO Ethernet device > > > > Still a no-go :( > > > # marioLAP/root [10:31:45] > [/usr/src]>svn info > Path: . > Working Copy Root Path: /usr/src > URL: https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 > Relative URL: ^/stable/10 > Repository Root: https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base > Repository UUID: ccf9f872-aa2e-dd11-9fc8-001c23d0bc1f > Revision: 268524 > Node Kind: directory > Schedule: normal > Last Changed Author: delphij > Last Changed Rev: 268519 > Last Changed Date: 2014-07-10 21:26:57 -0300 (Thu, 10 Jul 2014) > > # marioLAP/root [10:31:48] > [/usr/src]>grep vt /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC > device          vtnet           # VirtIO Ethernet device Even if you had modified GENERIC, Subversion still should have merged the changes. First, try 'svn cleanup' and an update. If it still does not have vt, move GENERIC out of the way and update again to get a clean version of the file: # mv /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/GENERIC.bak # svn up /usr/src From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 15:49:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D5E53C8 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:49:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sbg-out.inti.gob.ar (sbg-out.inti.gov.ar [200.10.161.69]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0737E24CB for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:49:42 +0000 (UTC) X-AuditID: c80aa145-f790a6d000000dff-54-53ce881421b7 Received: from [200.10.161.55] (jb.inti.gov.ar [200.10.161.55]) (using TLS with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by sbg-out.inti.gob.ar (SMTP_INTI) with SMTP id 57.E5.03583.4188EC35; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:49:40 -0300 (ART) Message-ID: <53CE8812.8050409@inti.gob.ar> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:49:38 -0300 From: Juan Bernhard User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupjluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42I5wbXQXFek41ywwcM9khYvv25icWD0mPFp PksAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxsyJV9kLdnFV7Fh9m72BcT5HFyMnh4SAiUTbzoXMELaYxIV7 69m6GLk4hAS6mCQ+bHvJ0sXIwcEroCXxfq0mSA2LgKrE0St72EBsNgE1ia9nTrGC2KICURIX 5vcwgti8AoISJ2c+YQGxRQQUJc6caQSrERZQl2hfuowNZKSQQLlEZ0MuSJhTwFJi69GPYCXM AjoS7/oeMEPY8hLNW2czT2Dkm4Vk6iwkZbOQlC1gZF7FKFyclK6bX1qiBwyhTL30/CS9xKJN jJBQct3BuHed+iFGAQ5GJR7eDZfPBguxJpYVV+YeYpTgYFYS4Y1uPRcsxJuSWFmVWpQfX1Sa k1p8iFGag0VJnDdY+kiwkEB6YklqdmpqQWoRTJaJg1OqgZHrpfKTO/pOTM4h7x/m/Tacf28O C8vyTu5dFlPUHzsYbvgvWfkjV0LsfqSNWt6iuuyTzm782hfM7BWbN6755Gdx+uTfi0vXGhnZ qZx8YPJkx0vBkPl602o2ud2Y2jttYt/mKY5aEw1FP5rd26PBeP3wDCOnuT/n/cn4+/nhLN51 l9N3682vNgpQYinOSDTUYi4qTgQA+9W0DiECAAA= X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:49:45 -0000 El 22/07/2014 12:37 p.m., RW escribi: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:31:26 -0300 > Juan Bernhard wrote: > >> >> El 22/07/2014 11:03 a.m., Luciano Mannucci escribi: >>> >>> Still in the process of migrating all my Linux servers to FreeBSD, >>> I'm now trying to move out a couple of thousands users created in a >>> twenty years timespan from a linux server. >>> Of course I need to keep uid and gid, though the juicy part is... >>> the passwords! I have them only in encrypted form and in different >>> algorythms (DES, Blowfish, ...) and the happily coexist. Con they >>> be used as they are in Freebsd? >>> >>> Thanks a lot again, >>> >>> luciano. >>> >> >> I think that if you respect the fields order and values for >> master.password, the hash will work fine. >> See "man 5 master.password", and if you need to add another algorithm >> see "man 3 crytp" to understand in witch algorithm you have hashed the >> old passwords (for example, if the hash begins with $1$ is in MD5) > > I very much doubt that. FreeBSDs MD5 is a complicated iterative hash > not just MD5. Even where Linux uses the same algorithm for a hash, > there's no standard for the number of interations. It work for centos 6.3 to freebsd 8.3 with MD5 hased passdorwd ($1$hash). I already did it and its in a production for one year From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:07:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DABC85C for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:07:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from blue.qeng-ho.org (blue.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D7BF26C5 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:07:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6MG5C8d042940 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:05:12 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Message-ID: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:05:12 +0100 From: Arthur Chance User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: FreeBSD-Questions Subject: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:07:07 -0000 I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:16:19 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85D28C91 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:16:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [IPv6:2a02:c200:0:10::404:501]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 465A227CB for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:16:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB05412C0179; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from android-4723dd398c6c031b (unknown [67.169.2.83]) by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8836B12C0178; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:16:14 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X From: David Benfell Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:16:09 -0700 To: Warren Block Message-ID: <89139be6-93e5-40dc-b2e6-fe64588876b4@email.android.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:16:19 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On July 22, 2014 3:54:28 AM PDT, Warren Block wrote: >On Mon, 21 Jul 2014, David Benfell wrote: > >> There is a note in UPDATING (did I read it beforehand? Of course >not.) about >> some video chips--including Intel, which mine is--that says that >> Ctrl/Alt/F[n] won't work. Apparently X isn't cleaning up after itself > >> correctly when exiting either. >> >> So the message here seems to be, once you start X, you'd better be >happy with >> it. Because you might not be leaving (short of a reboot). >> >> But what this also suggests is that, should I need it, the >Xorg.conf.new I >> generated might actually be okay. Because it's the exit that's >screwed up >> rather than anything to do with the configuration. > >The vt(4) console driver included with 10-stable and 9-stable solves >this: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons This seems very cool. The money quote is "To enable Newcons on i386 or amd64, set the loader tunable kern.vty=vt." Is this in loader.conf? Also, I'm running 10.0 RELEASE. Do I need to upgrade to STABLE? Thanks! - -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.1.1 iQJfBAEBCgBJBQJTzo5JQhxEYXZpZCBCZW5mZWxsICgqc2lnaCouIFRyeWluZyBh Z2Fpbi4pIDxiZW5mZWxsQHBhcnRzLXVua25vd24ub3JnPgAKCRAVeuMeEjZgK+Zf D/4rsnId9YbWEIPdGqxfUmjdaoCTWS6qK77apBjMDAuWBcxaQpIyitmp+jmvJ4Ud giHKI40fvfQErww4h83qLV77Uckg6Jm7JzqLznqEL/3QufhEXHDqLGh6dJAgGRuP eg3jLFJYX3Pyn6F5M/jCIrsDxBe86kKV7ARc49eXMj6NJJxHX6zaquWv9vfyn6q5 B9y2B9AwQSn01g3tFvhG2xoFxJ8qBiAzMPZYO477w/M8Fej5fdIdSh2CSzN7tOKl yy+2cgb55kT1004EtU6+wvt/bBkYQJmit4d1inSkAyXW+pcZh/sZxJooP4Pl4pzr pajKCkIYRpZlyrU1uj5Zjs1kQruqM6e/0CK9Evj8992DH3+NSDMeTFLw5pNMaPcb ISXekd8HMa0MfWI8mxpDrKXuMQLEpaGJaZ+BaejGb1zvs625b9tgihyucMge/WrJ xrFb5eD1mf31b2WqwJP6DR6xnO+E8T8gQHLnCynlT1isq2RPdor+oJ+YAWimS3Dz bCtfGdElARcY9u+ZTZmIgeapnjbBzmSzIyqBYZVkRhLGbafDg/IO29kN0tS3n0MR 63Tx0aknLPOoOyhgTT9AhrjoLDqKvi8lZX5rFM0QQilyceYbqNyohuBfQO9KxIzv TU934+XawzPhwrlq1mNSE9tiVPixRxHOy83rNvh3sDJRWw== =VyJV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:16:27 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02778D11 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:16:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB16727CF for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:16:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHlL150pxzCy1q for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id 5jRGLGJbjm9p for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHlL1467czCy1m for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0FB1B7580 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:17 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux In-Reply-To: <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) X-Face: 4qPv4GNcD; h<7Q/sK>+GqF4=CR@KmnPkSmwd+#%\F`4yjKO3"C]p'z=(oWRnsYBQGM\5g:4skqQY0NnV'dM:Mm:^/_+I@a"; [-s=ogufdF"9ggQ'=y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:16:27 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:37:40 +0100 RW wrote: > I very much doubt that. FreeBSDs MD5 is a complicated iterative hash > not just MD5. Even where Linux uses the same algorithm for a hash, > there's no standard for the number of interations. Well, I'll give it a try anyway. I have only 126 of those (out of 2172 users), the vast majority are either a traditional 2 chars salt DES or one of the blowfishes 2a | Blowfish, system-specific on 8-bit chars 2y | Blowfish, correct handling of 8-bit chars and I have no SHA passwors in my /etc/shadow file :) luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:23:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB0EBFC5 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:23:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from a0i308.smtpcorp.com (a0i308.smtpcorp.com [216.22.15.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92C2F28C1 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:23:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=smtpcorp.com; s=a0_1; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=JfnegKCLSI90+jaW16sn8Y3oQFHNtFNdvQGpM3RbPx0=; b=NiEChlrpr5/XsiEiLl1x0d96Z8PopvFA2WSY3OpurU2frXznsp+MNUlnEUfTYUw9ILxHtRQy9lD47l2P43LhO0HpipjR/61lXqmBNQ9tPJasszkRxrKvFQW0RN9hwDL9z7p52KNFqIByknQfCLfsLxBN8mbj61D50Z6rTV32QYY=; From: Daniel Corbe To: Arthur Chance Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:23:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> (Arthur Chance's message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:05:12 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Smtpcorp-Track: 1b9cqP4gfKuMm_.zoB8ehLy- Cc: FreeBSD-Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:23:33 -0000 Arthur Chance writes: > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice > physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make > swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? The rule of thumb is 1.5x physical RAM but that's an antiquated notion. With that much RAM in your system, you shouldn't ever need swap. But you want to build in a "I need to add more RAM to this system" buffer so that you don't run out of memory and crash your application if your size requirements happen to change. So here's what I do: 2GB of swap. Then I set my monitoring system to alert as soon as I get below 97% available swap space. 97% is a good number because some things will end up in swap no matter how you tune your system. Also make sure kern.ipc.shm_use_phys=1. -Daniel From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:24:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A1EDE5 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:24:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from icp-osb-irony-out4.external.iinet.net.au (icp-osb-irony-out4.external.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.220]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04C428D1 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:24:11 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqwHAD2PzlM6Bv2h/2dsb2JhbABYgw6BKYInrEQBAQEBAQEGn2UBgREWdoQEAQQBOj8FCwsNARMUEQ8FGDETiDoHwAsXhXuJUAeDLoEYBZsmhwBBjHODWCsv X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,710,1399996800"; d="scan'208";a="350381209" Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.phoenix) ([58.6.253.161]) by icp-osb-irony-out4.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2014 00:24:02 +0800 Received: by smtp.phoenix (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D4943BB9; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:24:01 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:24:01 +1000 From: andrew clarke To: Arthur Chance Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Message-ID: <20140722162401.GA91063@ozzmosis.com> References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Cc: FreeBSD-Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:24:12 -0000 On Tue 2014-07-22 17:05:12 UTC+0100, Arthur Chance (freebsd@qeng-ho.org) wrote: > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice > physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make > swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? Probably not. Of course it depends on your workload. You can always add swap later if you really need to, but running without swap is no problem. I run a FreeBSD 9.3 amd64 server with 4 GB physical and 2 GB swap. top(1) tells me just 62 MB is used, presumably just for housekeeping. Regards Andrew From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:24:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7000165 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:24:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50F8B28D3 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:24:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MGOD5c083377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MGODMB083374; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Arthur Chance Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? In-Reply-To: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> Message-ID: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Cc: FreeBSD-Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:24:15 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Arthur Chance wrote: > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical > memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I even > need swap with this much memory? Technically, no, but the system does like to have at least a little swap space and can benefit from it. (I forget where this is explained, tuning(7) maybe.) How much swap to allocate depends on the use of the system. On desktop-type systems where I'd normally not expect swap to be needed, I usually use 4G as a size large enough to be useful if it is ever needed but not so big as to make a noticeable dent in disk usage. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:30:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E94AF757 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tds-solutions.net (tds-solutions.net [192.99.32.153]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C125729C7 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tds-solutions.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tds-solutions.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2285EFF1B5; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:20:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tds-solutions.net Received: from tds-solutions.net ([127.0.0.1]) by tds-solutions.net (tds-solutions.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2i9AS4zLVplq; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.35] (24-177-51-95.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com [24.177.51.95]) (Authenticated sender: sorressean) by tds-solutions.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22620FEE0E; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53CE8F62.8090701@tysdomain.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:20:50 -0400 From: "Littlefield, Tyler" Reply-To: tyler@tysdomain.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arthur Chance , FreeBSD-Questions Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> In-Reply-To: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:30:56 -0000 On 7/22/2014 12:05 PM, Arthur Chance wrote: > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice > physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make > swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? > That number was always weird and never made much sense. What swap ultimately comes down to though is you, the user. If you foresee needing more than 32 gb ram, feel free to add more swap space. If you don't, maybe 8 gb or so just to be on the safe side. If you really need 32 gb swap space, I'd recommend just getting more ram, as that will be much, much faster than thrashing. HTH, > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:33:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC5F982A for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:33:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm35-vm6.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm35-vm6.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.97.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC24729F8 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:33:11 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rocketmail.com; s=s1024; t=1406046616; bh=8H/L6JaoPSLnWb6fLpoq88wOI/9TQC5hdDryoSMgx7A=; h=Received:Received:Received:DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kPH/RPo0XXl7eR6YFDP5+EQJL0DASiCnhiRfxDb8R1HGvnSFrrpKicoZxlZXj0gSwMAJAosisceMmarD2wG8v5VXJ+0heyIRXGdXOjchRoa0mXlDzPkAzCV9ZaT1Gphz7PVF5R/k52OK/MEIvnZ+7M09/GSBGnc9YKsoVEcTjeA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rocketmail.com; b=Tgo27d4mz5j7bWAzpYD/6bIKASfkEyABrmQyJcckq/VWSDr4Lv0JdpTwgTN3awFgr8D0IoAEfnUWU4m6Nru70tnthMAWFsxv6ePG9BHvzjlwi7GligzQ/m1ByAqec7u3aMUl27dJDWDchoGuiHg8LpsUttAmBNUZ5+pCp7gQ7uU=; Received: from [212.82.98.63] by nm35.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 16:30:16 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.103] by tm16.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 16:30:16 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp140.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 16:30:16 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rocketmail.com; s=s1024; t=1406046616; bh=8H/L6JaoPSLnWb6fLpoq88wOI/9TQC5hdDryoSMgx7A=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EwZQxO+2a8XqCmozm8QO0GRhGQzIXey0LYOCPL24DVY9/vLtdAQDaMAv7MF5rrefzG7vaCIWeOBa7/9DAGcVYM5i3eKzZmQ4QQjsUzSep/iCoBoYwSiY5YLUQb0QhRpWaPnkZQnA2VRtmiN00R1S03t0pQdm/Lg/nzDW5svHXW4= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 133324.50404.bm@smtp140.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: gcf0JfUVM1nDiyPYmqLAUr33of80krI.tHvPSCs5wZWH9qf Bsal3YARVRCFk5oR_SkFcg4TIBERsAKgmo6HIkYtd6G7cUSw4yIy2C.MWclB ZYTywLDQiCXu..gSbEidFoeBJ6eTV0hdNkEk6Ox0V1c8wVX1HoB2x3frGW4d l61xsylvD5hs6e3VFJGuEXOf0OfpZYJ3NEcJ8jHLVOpCFs_fan.gTvq.XQxB nmHVWHJNTeBhGqtzQnnSzo1tZTi9z10_SePlxFvraTtHErGdG9FWDVqjqK_Q qou0pHOsPJOhoUatB.ngPRZLjxb5YSwxRPttRdF.65.8tMaRVZJPClak5yZ0 PAcSe7pcZVvYU9jCCxwBhwP1lvUtCHfXREFhJk2PeZBwy7iJH0GMPYjgmdNX j.W3VJ5lZ1PlMbzh5Hc9hrnlRHUY_NIbyE9s8pubcTvYN.msVcAl.V74RGbt uS1QgncEdOjabdDnWAuNagI9aPXtmWGfkyXYXtTa5_GY9PRMfMIU0VBITiXv Pv3nGnnbzXQ1hAOP2lOGYH0apRzVl X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- Message-ID: <1406046615.3925.2.camel@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: [Bulk] How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:30:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:33:12 -0000 On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 17:05 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical > memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I > even need swap with this much memory? Do you hibernate? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:36:18 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E98C92A for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:36:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-x229.google.com (mail-vc0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E62C2A34 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:36:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id hu12so15521288vcb.0 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:36:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=MHzsJGb+RwwASIiLtW7YMCPD72u3CknUI14iTyhh9Gk=; b=Ji1nNld6kSTNVuegqSp8GZkZrwak50Y//UKA+iCX37Nt/mBlhK/ajAveGGxR3T4aFN uVxQhiMkNCs2smVKvFaQwWFal0nlQ+WAwABBVejcfC3AwTcbGrr/A2JOE5RmW/OSoULD 2mrHxFYhwS5ZogvAhatGLeUDcqoldg/v0atASguAFS73lcSe0zAj83qD0KmXsqRvVlYZ W8cHlXZ+o9TJ7Cdpe3vxyrmVXzed3U6z/t7Msi3z+ErU2/bhx00y/LldTqQMmwP19xG5 krhn1uc1HyW88oOI+F+WqtpEMbzOcRJa/h/8QXZVtWR/TRjHVhRbcFREz3V/x248nCNo 1z7g== X-Received: by 10.221.38.129 with SMTP id ti1mr30649026vcb.9.1406046977214; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:36:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.113.7 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1406046615.3925.2.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <1406046615.3925.2.camel@rocketmail.com> From: Anton Sayetsky Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:56 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Bulk] How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? To: Ralf Mardorf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:36:18 -0000 2014-07-22 19:30 GMT+03:00 Ralf Mardorf : > On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 17:05 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: >> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical >> memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I >> even need swap with this much memory? > > Do you hibernate? FreeBSD does NOT support S4 state. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:44:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22D68CAA for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:44:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm6-vm3.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm6-vm3.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.96.119]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BEC72B03 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:44:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.82.98.125] by nm6.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 16:42:00 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.93] by tm18.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 16:42:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp130.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 16:42:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rocketmail.com; s=s1024; t=1406047320; bh=RrsBKSGjce3A9tYyHZ212XeGtDxY6Nzz8/yUX/7j/6w=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jfcpAIg6KNNbQAvDx98y6uIkCMQt8bTZ7PlVcbZ9wPXSaQUaU9xeQMuBVvvJgAfXhuhMkfOR7X1Ne99D31f/1jqHL51vkvzMPjqvd1H3sCruj+zx9EDlfVRFWO+1aEMhXUf+7WKpw4JvmHn2/XDBn7NZ5bCq3r4VDXuTg6kKXv8= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 482770.74670.bm@smtp130.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: KjJ8XVMVM1kLmYCUvIa3qS2y3jxXA8pT0odSHKRDHPtMsYi m8XzQQ5LLVNp7_w299uNsy2i3NEwmEGuqO.jAAYkH9tNAo.x80CeXFWojMVP 4a_yVOmdK2nU12KVcEWNT.Gn3fPXp9pPXTiSgUfLcZ6sIXaiyy9QcZSi7P9r z8Uk4wFyQYlYoZSEy9kyniwI.nP18lTKW50EbWNPB0Mx.RymblpQCIPhgAz5 4lph3127Gl6F5HIb7aVmZ7ltcNS57h6T9jde8GMX1pmxmLx.9QwEI5x70rEE 5aaMdDJq6GRit3HdoM2Q3zQBOBVjp_fpvUYlx5q5KK9tzIVVGKYuhYBSFFLr EfZHXqEDaRJTZ6cQckSN3tGkeqZoausSWOTLexpF2n47w4GMGR04KH5a3xoP .VvHD3MnloiBBk76MKPFeNYvX3NUrXqvuWKjMjKR1XNApYVs5LR8GROjByC5 qoRYKVtIf3d5oHR1Xn3h1.5bUYh1RRn.PpCvnAmtwol74z.mdZ5gmOP7x7Xh 29cMJhjEq_5wprVguYR3Nxo2kT7bBBQ-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- Message-ID: <1406047319.4434.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: [Bulk] How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? From: Ralf Mardorf To: Anton Sayetsky Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:41:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <1406046615.3925.2.camel@rocketmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:44:09 -0000 On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 19:35 +0300, Anton Sayetsky wrote: > 2014-07-22 19:30 GMT+03:00 Ralf Mardorf : > > On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 17:05 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > >> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical > >> memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I > >> even need swap with this much memory? > > > > Do you hibernate? > FreeBSD does NOT support S4 state. My apologies. I checked this and found a PC-BSD thread where somebody claimed that he suspends to swap, but I didn't check if that claim is correct ;). From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:45:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66EE8E75 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:45:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from blue.qeng-ho.org (blue.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7C8F2B16 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:45:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6MGiwY4043018; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:44:59 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Message-ID: <53CE950A.5040205@qeng-ho.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:44:58 +0100 From: Arthur Chance User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ralf Mardorf , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Bulk] How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <1406046615.3925.2.camel@rocketmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1406046615.3925.2.camel@rocketmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:45:02 -0000 On 22/07/2014 17:30, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 17:05 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: >> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical >> memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I >> even need swap with this much memory? > > Do you hibernate? No, but I suffer seasonal affective disorder and wish I could. :-) Being serious, no I have no need to hibernate the machine. I didn't even know you could with FBSD. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:45:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C77F5F10 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:45:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-x229.google.com (mail-vc0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8617D2B2C for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:45:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id hu12so15598426vcb.14 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:45:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=HcmRovb2oCIVDHVw3m6Gwh5xsW7iwxZT+Fug/ifEOjo=; b=onMxF+jYcO0FUfr97ThL4YaoEELnZYlB+555SO3cv5/r1FlDoiKPgT9l3wCZ0C+G1Z z12R+Xu+6I57kJDthKx9T8hWHr61XDzDisN8tgxzK2/OrWItjm/Ren6CK75zS69T62q3 90MryT/78IfcTYRgxFgZ0GArlI3r7JqDWYK/CTNfuQzunMvps+Q1z3FWlh6/qGl/5mJj feoMHPSwTGdj3W6SVH7e61Cn7tIw7zaFcwioE6qfi/tZHpmgyE/vw+eLDNhwv5gNHBsi zMTzpNwXXVK9knq+ZDvCM2Gt/l8xr0w24vWQeLot29p6X9SkVIP7WiRp3ITBlIzXMhYT uc6g== X-Received: by 10.53.1.231 with SMTP id bj7mr35242092vdd.49.1406047552579; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:45:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.113.7 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:45:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1406047319.4434.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <1406046615.3925.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <1406047319.4434.1.camel@rocketmail.com> From: Anton Sayetsky Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:45:32 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Bulk] How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? To: Ralf Mardorf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:45:53 -0000 2014-07-22 19:41 GMT+03:00 Ralf Mardorf : > On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 19:35 +0300, Anton Sayetsky wrote: >> 2014-07-22 19:30 GMT+03:00 Ralf Mardorf : >> > On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 17:05 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: >> >> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical >> >> memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I >> >> even need swap with this much memory? >> > >> > Do you hibernate? >> FreeBSD does NOT support S4 state. > > My apologies. I checked this and found a PC-BSD thread where somebody > claimed that he suspends to swap, but I didn't check if that claim is > correct ;). > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#Suspend_to_disk From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 16:51:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03F07AC for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:51:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A153C2BDF for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:51:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MGpfqW090342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:51:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MGpfEs090339; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:51:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:51:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: David Benfell Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X In-Reply-To: <89139be6-93e5-40dc-b2e6-fe64588876b4@email.android.com> Message-ID: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> <89139be6-93e5-40dc-b2e6-fe64588876b4@email.android.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:51:47 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, David Benfell wrote: > On July 22, 2014 3:54:28 AM PDT, Warren Block wrote: >> >> The vt(4) console driver included with 10-stable and 9-stable solves >> this: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons > > This seems very cool. The money quote is "To enable Newcons on i386 or amd64, set the loader tunable kern.vty=vt." Is this in loader.conf? Yes. > Also, I'm running 10.0 RELEASE. Do I need to upgrade to STABLE? Yes. vt(4) was only added a few weeks ago, long after 10.0-RELEASE. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 17:15:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A444C797 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:15:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 654372DDD for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:15:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-69-249.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.69.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A35942768F; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:15:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s6MHFmKC002835; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:15:49 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:15:48 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Arthur Chance Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Message-Id: <20140722191548.e3945a1e.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD-Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:15:53 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:05:12 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical > memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I > even need swap with this much memory? Need? Probably not, but you _never_ know... So preparing a file-backed swap could be a nice solution: you do not have to dedicate a fixed size partition for swap, and depending on your disk setup (maybe SSD?) the speed (_if_ it gets in use) will be good enough. In order to do this, you use dd to create a sparse file, configure it as a memory disk, and enable it with swapctl. The disk space will only be used if the swap actually is written to, so when it's not in use, no disk occupation will appear. However, the question of if you _need_ swap or not is not directly related to the amount of RAM installed, but to the programs you're running. Remember that a malicious program can easily fill 32 GB, and if that happens, the system will be happy about some swap to perform a halfway decent crash. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 17:22:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA1AFA40 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:22:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 961792EA3 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:22:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MHMAXs098016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MHM7Bp098011; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:22:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:22:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Polytropon Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? In-Reply-To: <20140722191548.e3945a1e.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <20140722191548.e3945a1e.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:22:10 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Arthur Chance , FreeBSD-Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:22:16 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Polytropon wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:05:12 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: >> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical >> memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I >> even need swap with this much memory? > > Need? Probably not, but you _never_ know... So preparing > a file-backed swap could be a nice solution: you do not > have to dedicate a fixed size partition for swap, and > depending on your disk setup (maybe SSD?) the speed (_if_ > it gets in use) will be good enough. In order to do this, > you use dd to create a sparse file, File yes, sparse file no. Bad Things(TM) may happen with a sparse file. > configure it as a > memory disk, and enable it with swapctl. In 10.x, this can be done in /etc/fstab. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 17:24:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89A63AE7 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oa0-x229.google.com (mail-oa0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4560A2EBE for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id j17so10251414oag.0 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsd.com.br; s=capeta; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=tXcCGHs+BBMMJCPBavhiBH87DsL4hTq7rClL5EAo6hI=; b=Ef/045Aq6y+CbP3dIJdV/bblzUkzNZWkVYl2o0ev+BVli1Uz699raXda9BPVI63yvl VzkYIKN5UQhw2GV0kBYm9f1gUrlnqQm8iXsuBNaCGSyEVnPDzWOJxNXVk5qzfQmDRdSF tpCvauHdu4nSXA2Axzy0kY90RMoDbWd8Vupco= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=tXcCGHs+BBMMJCPBavhiBH87DsL4hTq7rClL5EAo6hI=; b=AWj82C/XWsA/Ktc8HBequPcpBOslJjqHMouDpId+77b836Mk6jfxtUTRPE8tZF7ISd t5mZdoSYEElmw+q43LCccPJOhkG2YzhBJWsHh7F2ncrHgWaxsrGE5RLsrp4KWyorKaIo 0ZI2HROlhIwlZQLthhoKwdvg6GrH+rzddoR6EDebeCQy/5g6e3LaR2gdt82qdCVSw8No uKsYGib9h5RIeFJxRY+2EU4nl0Hk/7BuiznF0Jea17Zc2LyeqgSwFdSR7OVnZfV2hnlo xwWEAHzkPjKTn363/MQIY3f2M1GVxfanYiVdHW8gHjo1ZmoP2qco9GsfEXPACApC9pzG a8Wg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkHZor6SJ73zvndYrg7G0xBCadp58x0tWjskxtwiRzI5DmKc7Z+OKAdoG3cS6ds1lyyCPyH MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.161.136 with SMTP id xs8mr50675800oeb.42.1406049852261; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.106.205 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> <89139be6-93e5-40dc-b2e6-fe64588876b4@email.android.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:24:12 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X From: Mario Lobo To: Warren Block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, David Benfell X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:24:13 -0000 2014-07-22 13:51 GMT-03:00 Warren Block : > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, David Benfell wrote: > > On July 22, 2014 3:54:28 AM PDT, Warren Block wrote: >> >>> >>> The vt(4) console driver included with 10-stable and 9-stable solves >>> this: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Newcons >>> >> >> This seems very cool. The money quote is "To enable Newcons on i386 or >> amd64, set the loader tunable kern.vty=vt." Is this in loader.conf? >> > > Yes. > > > Also, I'm running 10.0 RELEASE. Do I need to upgrade to STABLE? >> > > Yes. vt(4) was only added a few weeks ago, long after 10.0-RELEASE. > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > I solved it by deleting /usr/src and doing svn checkout https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 /usr/src Now I've got: # marioLAP/root [14:21:31] [/usr/src]>svn info Path: . Working Copy Root Path: /usr/src URL: https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 Relative URL: ^/stable/10 Repository Root: https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base Repository UUID: ccf9f872-aa2e-dd11-9fc8-001c23d0bc1f Revision: 268985 Node Kind: directory Schedule: normal Last Changed Author: jhb Last Changed Rev: 268976 Last Changed Date: 2014-07-22 01:39:16 -0300 (Tue, 22 Jul 2014) # marioLAP/root [14:17:43] [/usr/src/sys/amd64/conf]>grep vt * GENERIC:# vt is the new video console driver GENERIC:device vt GENERIC:device vt_vga GENERIC:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device NOTES:device vtnet # VirtIO Ethernet device Since I'm at work right now on this machine, do you think that just for testing, a make kernel would suffice or do I need a full buildworld for that? Thanks for all your help :) ! -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since version 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!] (99,7% winfoes FREE) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 17:35:38 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB406EB4 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:35:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618A72FBB for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:35:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHn5P2ZwJzCy1m for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id CAUA0wZ0Hu9R for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHn5P1dT9zCy1l for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1923A1B757D for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:29 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux In-Reply-To: <20140722161629.52E5DD8A@hub.freebsd.org> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722161629.52E5DD8A@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) X-Face: 4qPv4GNcD; h<7Q/sK>+GqF4=CR@KmnPkSmwd+#%\F`4yjKO3"C]p'z=(oWRnsYBQGM\5g:4skqQY0NnV'dM:Mm:^/_+I@a"; [-s=ogufdF"9ggQ'=y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:35:38 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:17 +0200 Luciano Mannucci wrote: > 2y | Blowfish, correct handling of 8-bit chars Tried this one. Made an entry copying values from one user of the linux machine. Compiled with pwd_mkdb /etc/master.passwd. Noticed I had forgotten the -p so I relaunched pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd. Tryed mkdir ~user and it worked. Attempt tho login via ssh gives in /var/log/messages: Jul 22 19:19:13 mordeus kernel: pid 53847 (sshd), uid 0: exited on signal 11 ...hmmm... tomorrow I'll give it a closer look... luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 17:36:05 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3485BF3D for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:36:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3F032FC7 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:36:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X9dyp-0004qY-2Y for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:59 +0200 Received: from pool-173-79-82-127.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([173.79.82.127]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:59 +0200 Received: from nightrecon by pool-173-79-82-127.washdc.fios.verizon.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:59 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Michael Powell Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:35:41 -0400 Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <53CE8F62.8090701@tysdomain.com> Reply-To: nightrecon@hotmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-79-82-127.washdc.fios.verizon.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:36:05 -0000 Littlefield, Tyler wrote: > On 7/22/2014 12:05 PM, Arthur Chance wrote: >> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice >> physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make >> swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? >> > That number was always weird and never made much sense. What swap > ultimately comes down to though is you, the user. If you foresee needing > more than 32 gb ram, feel free to add more swap space. If you don't, > maybe 8 gb or so just to be on the safe side. If you really need 32 gb > swap space, I'd recommend just getting more ram, as that will be much, > much faster than thrashing. > HTH, The other consideration is crash dump. I run my servers without symbols, NO_PROFILE, and no kernel debugging stuff. Of course, should you actually run into a situation where you need to assist the devs troubleshooting you won't be able to do much. I use RELEASE branch(s), and only apply security updates so have an expected stability which I have seen in practice. From my viewpoint, if it works 100% when you initially setup a piece of hardware it will continue to work fine throughout the life cycle. Since I don't use such things (me sysadmin - not a coder) I'm not as knowledgeable, but I seem to recall that a crash dump needs a swap that is as large as physical memory. I think there is also a mini crash dump which does not. I would investigate the mini crash dump requirements to see if you can correlate some magic number from that - e.g., a box with 32G ram needs an 8G swap in order to do a mini crash dump kind of thing. At any rate having _some_ swap available is a Good Thing for a "just in case" scenario. It will buy you time to investigate and mitigate a runaway process. Other list members know more about this topic than I do, just wanted to point out the crash dump scenario. -Mike From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 18:02:21 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5C66489 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:02:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nm39-vm2.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (nm39-vm2.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [212.82.97.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2136F228A for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:02:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [212.82.98.51] by nm39.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 18:02:13 -0000 Received: from [46.228.39.80] by tm4.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 18:02:13 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp117.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jul 2014 18:02:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rocketmail.com; s=s1024; t=1406052133; bh=xkiuhkbmiSoPyQfTSMFFxt/t9q5OtZN/cb9uQ8msgIs=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=K24yyz0ViSb9K9zyd2UgPO9dNugm/9lfOP1wPa5L56Z+Js9QvNP+7QVNj92Z6raa353DSoNji3HAQfu/7/HkUnljpLJnZ6KCzPMxv7cDb2oT2fKVVA/U1EFpoM0xhd8UL8nB1jkElWXm9XgqAzhLyu9Yb834kxyKRwDABLgonA4= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 58075.80521.bm@smtp117.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: Lw88QxwVM1lt74QO5Gs7xPr2vVdwwNyUXVMt_uYmSQfBypw aeEL4fpuQ_RRm1BeSCE3jQ..KAJlvfXr4boSorYNqhf.ilW8Nk52UCcTPhR0 TT5Si2ofmV6P1QemZINgkmyJ42NCEAcGGK21Gw1rAOZYJKr2e9syZlWI4Vx5 RESBDD7cuod04_0xYJtFtkiO4D4w1MF3DQgfZ0MOoaRPUzg9khi0Y8jH7DM1 CO6QxXYR2KSkHM0dChuAAyprp6e8FJhHtX9rsiq.poh3OozkVQHUCqUeQqaU 1uK5C31U.h8FOrJzaCtOtS.GePQKKDMbrjLN3UbFD55CRPmW5oLPjxg5Q9Kc qeUZTHIE_G7jKqqzeYuFHti8MwFT4iLiyOhrKd8MnjMtT7ntIL00ZT3Zqyzw mycUVAo9at_sifp2D8JBs.lCVkqSaBHve1UYxFPJWEtyAtWvna8jLDc7wIZ_ MhB9Gw.rwwUlf2DuPr8H99ZSjNL5BNqbhweXQC3NT02Us6HEm5aQxprLiEi8 xMYGZMcAB44rLMh931NRiq70QmyPmba5P46vUnU86iKuAvx_W70qpa4IhvQZ e_gU91bQfpYTNZSlhtDqom.CGeDpdxcn.5xq6tR8fmJZVhXDSpXmwqUs2hmu 0uFqNI7ZjuVw- X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- Message-ID: <1406052132.7452.7.camel@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:02:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <53CE8F62.8090701@tysdomain.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:02:22 -0000 On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 13:35 -0400, Michael Powell wrote: > Since I don't use such things (me sysadmin - not a coder) I'm not as > knowledgeable, but I seem to recall that a crash dump needs a swap > that is as large as physical memory. "My 48GB swap file system isn't fully recognized. Q. What is the max amount of swap a system can use? A. Are you sure you want/need that much swap anyway? The old-school 2-4x RAM doesn't really apply, though you may want a bit more than 1x physical RAM if you are capturing a crash dump, and some systems have >32GB RAM now. Swap can be limited by kern.maxswzone which controls the size of metadata use to track swap (8.X default is 64MB allowing ~15GB of swap). Note other changes are required to have >8x physical RAM for swap." - https://commons.lbl.gov/display/~jwelcher@lbl.gov/FreeBSD +Random+FAQ Interesting thread, since there isn't an answer for Linux and I plan to use a new FreeBSD install in the close future too. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 18:16:13 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA69896F for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.magehandbook.com (173-8-4-45-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.4.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB95123E3 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (Mac-Pro.magehandbook.com [192.168.1.50]) by mail.magehandbook.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHp062pGbzKf for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:16:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:16:06 -0400 From: Daniel Staal To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> In-Reply-To: <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:16:13 -0000 --As of July 22, 2014 1:33:05 PM +0100, RW is alleged to have said: > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:23:42 +0100 > krad wrote: > >> You seem to be getting away from your initial statement, which you >> said zfs would make it worse, and journaled ufs. I really dont see >> this being the case, yes there are scenarios where u will get a >> screwed pool, but thats the case with any file system. > > Would you rather lose a third of your books, or a third of the > chapters from all your books? --As for the rest, it is mine. I'd rather not lose any of it, not even a single period. Which would mean a filesystem that can monitor itself for health and integrity, down to the individual file level, keep backups and changes, and repair itself. Which is ZFS. (Admittedly some of those features aren't likely to be used in a single-disk pool - but they can be.) The only real case of 'lose everything' under ZFS is if the disk goes bad - in which case you'd lose everything under UFS as well, most likely. If less than the whole disk goes bad you'll get checksum errors (which might give you warning the disk is failing), which will tell you what's happening. If you aren't keeping backups you might lose the file - but since the checksum failed you've *already* lost the file. ZFS is able to tell you about it, while UFS won't - and will happily let you wreck other files when you act on the bad data. So, I really don't see what you are thinking might happen, and why it's an advantage for UFS. Daniel T. Staal --------------------------------------------------------------- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 18:49:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 419A73EE for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:49:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [IPv6:2a02:c200:0:10::404:501]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03E672700 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:49:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E9C12C0178 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 917B012C017A; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT) From: David Benfell To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: UEFI boot on 10.0 =?utf-8?Q?STABLE=3F?= Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:48:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_munich.parts-unknown.org-28809-1406054939-0001"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-Id: <20140722184900.917B012C017A@mail.parts-unknown.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:49:03 -0000 This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages. The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996. To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet software that supports modern Internet standards. --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-28809-1406054939-0001 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, The way I'm booting into FreeBSD right now is far from ideal. For what it's worth, this is an Asus X202e notebook. What I'm doing now is using a Debian kFreeBSD disk to get to grub. It has an option to boot from the first hard disk. That's literally all I need to boot FreeBSD. I'm presently using legacy BIOS emulation to boot the kFreeBSD disk but its a GPT disk. I also needed legacy mode to boot the FreeBSD installation disk so I could even install FreeBSD. I did create an additional EFI partition at the beginning of the disk, modifying the default install. What I'm seeing now looks kind of like a chicken-and-egg problem. I tried installing grub-efi-amd64 but it fails to work the appropriate magic and cast the appropriate spell. I suspect because the disk is GPT running under legacy mode. I also tried rEFInd which has helped enormously with previous linux installations. No joy this time. I've now blown both grub-efi and rEFInd away on the theory that I need to start fresh. It looks like code to deal with UEFI has been merged in to HEAD (a statement that doesn't actually mean all that much to me) and I *am* at this moment trying to upgrade from 10.0 RELEASE to STABLE. Is needed code in STABLE (and not in RELEASE)? Has anyone found a path through this? Where/what is it? Should I just wait for 10.1? Thanks! -- David Benfell See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you do not understand the attachment. --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-28809-1406054939-0001 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIVAwUAU86yHBV64x4SNmArAQr46xAAkEhjWUoA/4T8mJJVREdx1Xs1sEyZHNhV dzUCc+P5bbjluh1cXVepW7/MQK4R3z4zctsUCx7tLJyDB7dCPBxm06EREZRH7set 2m05+WuyKmyYXR48RrXaceCtFfaIkqployzynWN6ItcOvl4jkOZI+Hngwyh7oXZU NfVT31KLGEn4wJkGj5y4YIVlesM5UTPB4Zq6wQHze9CuK8cvFFCZyzvk13Gv9RX1 BEqges8fHHGw3MDR6T/rrG3PfGqdaZyn8IuLG/JkgABescSMUw0lgLqI9ShoXi9Y k98yoJs3VdRPdC6oSwDIGzCsjAhbnzehGISUKXPVhxEpqqIFrPCZiG78dsy4PfXM ogulP1c/EzshNu1t7e9qMtowSNXn2hVKDo0144EAod6pbEEs+KF1Fq1LkPNoJv1/ 2FUIlM1S8BYRf/xKbLxfUq34e13O2mb95KTm4yFhtAwxol0HaZC8wt1MpgzgMsmP lKGHGOM5eIgTK2/PM+Y7/viepKUchzBxYTEDS4MnmWEViDJXg72ytfAQRNmbaUIE c+iY6qsEuoLQNRvfmzD2nEHaySXgej8rjQrUBcJ/C+JDM7ddxmmj8GwDAFABhTBh QXKV6lnDuxBxbM8gbVPqP/YuqpM4PQmCYlGvzyn3De1ak5YDpdcjK0JUSaBYbuhB JFwDdR3dZH0= =Ri65 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_munich.parts-unknown.org-28809-1406054939-0001-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 19:10:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BE93F5E for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:10:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00FB6296C for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:10:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6MJAfCl025283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:10:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6MJAfm2025280; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:10:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:10:41 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Mario Lobo Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> <89139be6-93e5-40dc-b2e6-fe64588876b4@email.android.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, David Benfell X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:10:48 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Mario Lobo wrote: > I solved it by deleting /usr/src and doing > > svn checkout https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 /usr/src ... > Since I'm at work right now on this machine, do you think that just for testing, a make kernel would suffice or do I need a full buildworld for that? I'd do a full buildworld/kernel/installworld, since there was definitely something wrong with the previous checkout. It might work otherwise, but if it does not work, it will be hard to tell why. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 19:29:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BEF26F0 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:29:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from be-well.ilk.org (be-well.ilk.org [23.30.133.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62B582B6E for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:29:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by be-well.ilk.org (Postfix, from userid 1147) id 1A46C33C46; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:22:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Lowell Gilbert To: Ralf Mardorf Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <53CE8F62.8090701@tysdomain.com> <1406052132.7452.7.camel@rocketmail.com> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:22:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1406052132.7452.7.camel@rocketmail.com> (Ralf Mardorf's message of "Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:02:12 +0200") Message-ID: <44k375w655.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (berkeley-unix) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:29:45 -0000 Ralf Mardorf writes: > On Tue, 2014-07-22 at 13:35 -0400, Michael Powell wrote: >> Since I don't use such things (me sysadmin - not a coder) I'm not as >> knowledgeable, but I seem to recall that a crash dump needs a swap >> that is as large as physical memory. > > "My 48GB swap file system isn't fully recognized. > Q. What is the max amount of swap a system can use? > A. Are you sure you want/need that much swap anyway? The old-school 2-4x > RAM doesn't really apply, though you may want a bit more than 1x > physical RAM if you are capturing a crash dump, and some systems have >>32GB RAM now. Swap can be limited by kern.maxswzone which controls the > size of metadata use to track swap (8.X default is 64MB allowing ~15GB > of swap). Note other changes are required to have >8x physical RAM for > swap." - https://commons.lbl.gov/display/~jwelcher@lbl.gov/FreeBSD > +Random+FAQ That's a little out of date, because crash dumps now default to a minidump and take much less space. You're unlikely to want a full dump and can always add a new disk for the purpose if you ever do. > Interesting thread, since there isn't an answer for Linux and I plan to > use a new FreeBSD install in the close future too. Fair enough. There's always advice to be found, but "how much swap" in a vastly less interesting or consequential question than it used to be. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 19:39:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB823156 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:39:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7151C2CA6 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:39:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f175.google.com with SMTP id ho1so6505904wib.2 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:39:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Rx7tu+elepgGma2JJN/+FXxjFHYgMeEFhvKLHH+MYGQ=; b=iR7xdLn/K2Wz2phNxUNHgr8dSnzfGI19XNQxYVXzuuTIiUf8SKT2Mroxv/+JHb242U yC+NfIkrmyzGTjGGU3XI4/lQOV1GlrnbWSSvT9XQ2H3lPfQjafDElT2NzWMNGraSjXG3 o4H9ZkOqQ43y/KJ6MVEAPIntX/k24amI+uufBTgx9VpAUIPj8LcAfxVYkO66cPuP1utX 3cWI4q3IrfDHs6jjIexwL68eXB+2ffXJ1qJ6lOd9HH8ZsBVmLaAg5g0u3lePqB1+xdYd Zc41HfDwTiTItdJR0upoHIU2igaJLAXyh82dPm24Fo8s7F81pVIDx2kyanijlOR84WPx hoGw== X-Received: by 10.180.85.162 with SMTP id i2mr17826601wiz.53.1406057972605; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:39:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ed14sm385468wic.10.2014.07.22.12.39.30 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 12:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:39:28 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Message-ID: <20140722203928.6993a78d@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:39:35 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Warren Block wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Arthur Chance wrote: > > > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice > > physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make > > swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? > > Technically, no, but the system does like to have at least a little > swap space and can benefit from it. (I forget where this is > explained, tuning(7) maybe.) This is something that is often repeated, but I don't recall every seeing an actual explanation. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 21:19:45 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C164BE01 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:19:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yk0-x22d.google.com (mail-yk0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74F7627CA for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:19:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yk0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 131so195480ykp.4 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:19:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsd.com.br; s=capeta; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :organization:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PP3dl75TrvZDQgLqKOOmKYWpdUU84ZXJLn8HXGhKL48=; b=PV8GV2y7z2qiqkZFLBrUHQS25/+kjwdgCuYYart8ZKJ0PAffy3tCbUB4dRBfmz5OON GoaRuw6IGjMFPEKNWEGpoV/ZDsS4mOsf+itEhX45PRqwT6/v5r6OEqMyqDmlc9sKf5DD yiin7olMtxsnQhYEjoLduJ2u08u0dftj5qyfc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:organization:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=PP3dl75TrvZDQgLqKOOmKYWpdUU84ZXJLn8HXGhKL48=; b=mUe5yTvfo76dfgR2r2EqQpq7HGCaIS5PJqxoL3zm3BNzqZg0i3oDotlQql3FuDrBDQ f0iP+78paIigFxul7pycsr6oLbmI3IIME8L+BhrZRYBzyBpSLr0apb7gaiMRO6A9oZJK KEs0kOGPKL3sNJKiIY8FIvntciYbe4bDsZdRvbtpGp04BnSZSzRVPL/76ftJEn3Jiqf4 cyv2UP+BceWh+vpwYfa2tT3GP+jjiD8oOA+2Ev2EpmHrreAKiLmjnJ27Wo0BvuVQdE/f 47j0SP+OL/viC5YUZ17O2YrK44bOKIM/YV01AvpZKokjwuRHHfwyUL3nbuZ3Hdqu/EvI 0kHg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQniZO6ZWQK1CueMzW5BghRYcBfpFOtTPXbiY5jKCxgF/WRsKRZQgwe2sOzUvuxIcCt92/2W X-Received: by 10.236.137.14 with SMTP id x14mr54078716yhi.20.1406063984123; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Papi ([177.158.97.121]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u23sm403586yhh.30.2014.07.22.14.19.42 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:19:53 -0300 From: Mario Lobo To: Warren Block Subject: Re: About the black screen (Otherwise solved) Re: All of a sudden, problems with X Message-ID: <20140722181953.26b846f9@Papi> In-Reply-To: References: <20140722024643.GA29536@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722051423.0cf369b9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722040440.GA16353@munich.parts-unknown.org> <20140722061900.008b35db.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140722060749.5487612C10D1@mail.parts-unknown.org> <89139be6-93e5-40dc-b2e6-fe64588876b4@email.android.com> Organization: BSD X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:19:45 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Warren Block wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Mario Lobo wrote: > > > I solved it by deleting /usr/src and doing > > > > svn checkout > > https://svn0.us-east.freebsd.org/base/stable/10 /usr/src > ... > > Since I'm at work right now on this machine, do you think that just > > for testing, a make kernel would suffice or do I need a full > > buildworld for that? > > I'd do a full buildworld/kernel/installworld, since there was > definitely something wrong with the previous checkout. It might work > otherwise, but if it does not work, it will be hard to tell why. I rebooted with the new kernel and it all went ok. vt_vga is up! But I'm rebuilding everything now. Thanks !!! -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!] (99% winblows FREE) "UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things." From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 21:27:27 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A099ABD for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:27:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wg0-x22d.google.com (mail-wg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31705288C for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:27:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id x12so248489wgg.4 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:27:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z/zsWxP0DPAtvEJyyIS+SK9xEP/LP8rNXNvHpF2JwyU=; b=k7EcYBBJiBcGi24qr1XzPRBTEt+zQ83aqwnb7uYYUGja4NnoJ4jwosJ6RSouhWeI2X hAflWS5CHPEZ1+tvrpyBmukGbnv5Uz/7vxII9y7qhOUH1IXSq3Nen/67UWtuXgibwo+5 owwCKLboU56EkJUAvholvLNgYpHXXkEHjRWbpGosehZcAkzJL+yTtNdhMb29cJgD5Xke jTXKsr1EeOhoIRQscUyNKGILy+pL1Bp2CeN/TuKLajV12hq7u/3JGIQI5+ohDd93XkxL uVl1vEd7ljCXhx3jTvAQiVzZOmlbDjDvBFb+zc2hDT4LDO5iiqyYVcort++9fxCG1Y7P n4mw== X-Received: by 10.180.24.66 with SMTP id s2mr18272962wif.33.1406064445302; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id di7sm675233wjb.34.2014.07.22.14.27.24 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:27:22 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 21:27:27 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:16:06 -0400 Daniel Staal wrote: > --As of July 22, 2014 1:33:05 PM +0100, RW is alleged to have said: > > > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:23:42 +0100 > > krad wrote: > > > >> You seem to be getting away from your initial statement, which you > >> said zfs would make it worse, and journaled ufs. I really dont see > >> this being the case, yes there are scenarios where u will get a > >> screwed pool, but thats the case with any file system. > > > > Would you rather lose a third of your books, or a third of the > > chapters from all your books? > > --As for the rest, it is mine. > > I'd rather not lose any of it, not even a single period. Most desktops that have a lot of storage have it filled with multimedia, which is highly resistant to data rot, the OS can be reinstalled, this is not a significant issue to most people. > Which would > mean a filesystem that can monitor itself for health and integrity, > down to the individual file level, keep backups and changes, and > repair itself. Which is ZFS. I'm specifically talking about the case where a desktop PC is converted from JBOD to ZFS without any redundancy. > The only real case of 'lose everything' under ZFS is if the disk goes > bad - in which case you'd lose everything under UFS as well, most > likely. When you lose some files from a directory it often renders others worthless, for example losing a third of the episodes of a TV series can be much the same as losing all of them. When a disk fails with UFS, the directories on the other disks are completely unaffected. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jul 22 22:04:15 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EF2D15F for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:04:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.magehandbook.com (173-8-4-45-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.4.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3AC22C1A for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:04:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (Mac-Pro.magehandbook.com [192.168.1.50]) by mail.magehandbook.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hHv3J3c8MzMm for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:04:12 -0400 From: Daniel Staal To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:04:15 -0000 --As of July 22, 2014 10:27:22 PM +0100, RW is alleged to have said: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:16:06 -0400 > Daniel Staal wrote: > >> --As of July 22, 2014 1:33:05 PM +0100, RW is alleged to have said: >> >> > On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:23:42 +0100 >> > krad wrote: >> > >> >> You seem to be getting away from your initial statement, which you >> >> said zfs would make it worse, and journaled ufs. I really dont see >> >> this being the case, yes there are scenarios where u will get a >> >> screwed pool, but thats the case with any file system. >> > >> > Would you rather lose a third of your books, or a third of the >> > chapters from all your books? >> >> --As for the rest, it is mine. >> >> I'd rather not lose any of it, not even a single period. > > Most desktops that have a lot of storage have it filled with > multimedia, which is highly resistant to data rot, the OS can be > reinstalled, this is not a significant issue to most people. I switched to ZFS specifically *because* of the data rot in my multimedia files. ;) >> Which would >> mean a filesystem that can monitor itself for health and integrity, >> down to the individual file level, keep backups and changes, and >> repair itself. Which is ZFS. > > I'm specifically talking about the case where a desktop PC is converted > from JBOD to ZFS without any redundancy. Ok, so not a single disk case, and a case *anyone* would recommend you against. In fact, it's a case that every ZFS guide I've seen leaves out because it's an idiotic idea to use ZFS that way. >> The only real case of 'lose everything' under ZFS is if the disk goes >> bad - in which case you'd lose everything under UFS as well, most >> likely. > > When you lose some files from a directory it often renders others > worthless, for example losing a third of the episodes of a TV series > can be much the same as losing all of them. When a disk fails with UFS, > the directories on the other disks are completely unaffected. On the other hand, with a *sane* ZFS configuration, losing a single disk out of ZFS pool doesn't even mean that the system as a whole notices: The pool will continue to operate in a degraded state until you have the opportunity to replace the disk. (Which - depending on your hardware - may not even require you to take the machine down.) Oh, and if you are going to argue that you'll lose disk capacity that way - you might, some. Lukily disk space is cheap, and ZFS does a better job of distributing it where it's needed. Your UFS-on-mountpoints system will likely have a lot of 'wasted' space, allocated to mountpoints that do not and will never need that space - but you can't be sure, and you'd have to know ahead of time. ZFS on the other hand can hand that space over to wherever you need it on the fly (you can even increase the total size of the pool on the fly, by replacing or adding disks), and can compress (or deduplicate, though there are performance penalties. On mostly-read data like a media store it can be worth it though) data as it's being written. So, depending on the data you may actually end up with more space. (Unlikely with multimedia, but with more compressible formats it's quite possible.) So, yes, if you set yourself up to lose data it's possible you'll lose less data under a traditional UFS approach - but you won't be following any of the ZFS guides I've seen, using any of the ZFS advantages, and aren't even following *UFS* best practices. (Which would advocate for mirrored disks or better if possible. It's just a lot harder to set up and use than under ZFS, which makes it easy and nearly the default.) Daniel T. Staal --------------------------------------------------------------- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 01:20:08 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91F65C58 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 01:20:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 535C82C36 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 01:20:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r56.edvax.de (port-92-195-69-249.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.69.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B122E249AF; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 03:20:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from r56.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r56.edvax.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with SMTP id s6N1K2wi001927; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 03:20:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 03:20:02 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Warren Block Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Message-Id: <20140723032002.2a34a6b1.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <20140722191548.e3945a1e.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: FreeBSD-Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 01:20:08 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:22:07 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Polytropon wrote: > > > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:05:12 +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: > >> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice physical > >> memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? Do I > >> even need swap with this much memory? > > > > Need? Probably not, but you _never_ know... So preparing > > a file-backed swap could be a nice solution: you do not > > have to dedicate a fixed size partition for swap, and > > depending on your disk setup (maybe SSD?) the speed (_if_ > > it gets in use) will be good enough. In order to do this, > > you use dd to create a sparse file, > > File yes, sparse file no. Bad Things(TM) may happen with a sparse file. Okay, probably wrong terminology here. :-) This is how I did it: In order to keep things simple, I added the following to /etc/rc.local: SWAP="/swapfile.tmp" /bin/rm -f $SWAP /bin/dd if=/dev/zero of=$SWAP bs=16m seek=1k count=0 /sbin/mdconfig -a -t vnode -u 0 -f $SWAP || /bin/sh /bin/chflags nodump $SWAP /sbin/swapctl -a $SWAP And /etc/rc.shutdown.local cleans it up: /sbin/swapctl -d /dev/md0 /sbin/mdconfig -d -u 0 Suggestions for improvement? > > configure it as a > > memory disk, and enable it with swapctl. > > In 10.x, this can be done in /etc/fstab. This is on (or for) 10.0, how exactly does it work, which options are involved? Note that the above method has been "invented" for the use with SSDs in FreeBSD 8 and 9, so possibly it's easier to do something similar in FreeBSD 10... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 02:15:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C59EC460 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:15:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73672207B for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:15:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6N2FRN1030207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:15:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6N2FRbG030204; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:15:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:15:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: Polytropon Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? In-Reply-To: <20140723032002.2a34a6b1.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <20140722191548.e3945a1e.freebsd@edvax.de> <20140723032002.2a34a6b1.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:15:27 -0600 (MDT) Cc: FreeBSD-Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:15:33 -0000 On Wed, 23 Jul 2014, Polytropon wrote: > This is how I did it: In order to keep things simple, I added > the following to /etc/rc.local: > > SWAP="/swapfile.tmp" > /bin/rm -f $SWAP > /bin/dd if=/dev/zero of=$SWAP bs=16m seek=1k count=0 > /sbin/mdconfig -a -t vnode -u 0 -f $SWAP || /bin/sh > /bin/chflags nodump $SWAP > /sbin/swapctl -a $SWAP > > And /etc/rc.shutdown.local cleans it up: > > /sbin/swapctl -d /dev/md0 > /sbin/mdconfig -d -u 0 > > Suggestions for improvement? It's not necessary to recreate the swap file on every boot, or manually add it as swap or remove it as swap. Although there were some bugs with the 9.X /etc/rc.d/swapfile, it normally just required some entries in /etc/rc.conf. The swap file path, for example. >>> configure it as a >>> memory disk, and enable it with swapctl. >> >> In 10.x, this can be done in /etc/fstab. > > This is on (or for) 10.0, how exactly does it work, which options > are involved? Note that the above method has been "invented" for > the use with SSDs in FreeBSD 8 and 9, so possibly it's easier to > do something similar in FreeBSD 10... In 10.0, Hiroki Sato set it up to do it all from /etc/fstab, and added a bunch of examples to fstab(5). Here is my entry for a swap file: md99 none swap sw,file=/usr/swap/swap 0 0 That's all. Well, the swap file has to be created before the first use. md99 is used to avoid having md0 tied up for a swap file when I want to mount an ISO. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 02:32:24 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 515C697F for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:32:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (wonkity.com [67.158.26.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "wonkity.com", Issuer "wonkity.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC02821F6 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:32:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wonkity.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6N2WMt3034572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:32:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Received: from localhost (wblock@localhost) by wonkity.com (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) with ESMTP id s6N2WMGu034569; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:32:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wblock@wonkity.com) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:32:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Warren Block To: RW Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? In-Reply-To: <20140722203928.6993a78d@gumby.homeunix.com> Message-ID: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <20140722203928.6993a78d@gumby.homeunix.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (wonkity.com [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:32:22 -0600 (MDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:32:24 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, RW wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) > Warren Block wrote: > >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Arthur Chance wrote: >> >>> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice >>> physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make >>> swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? >> >> Technically, no, but the system does like to have at least a little >> swap space and can benefit from it. (I forget where this is >> explained, tuning(7) maybe.) > > This is something that is often repeated, but I don't recall every > seeing an actual explanation. That's what I said, and then somebody pointed to the explanation. But it was years ago, so now it's hard to remember exactly where it was. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 02:53:39 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B983CAB for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:53:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10B8523B9 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:53:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id i13so631848qae.34 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:53:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=GryQtAHXsQtk1jt/81zpySA51Ir4YMeJdYqFEcmLBho=; b=kMAOqpdNqTopS6MrMcQ/JTuynxO2A5kxXZ8rpAPL1K2CDdmwfh/SN+4X8IlGyZ+46O nG2np7HkDvAXCsyzJNXMVZXv3w+2zj/SP7VdGHDq12yR1ZOw1/HYXHWhZhmIN+vHSS2Z dogjCUFubV6uFtIStcmvJpsIuKWcc/mGLNxNr/ZZ6FR9BHhS9HF6ohUCbcKFk3ouyLhu FP36WSxFbaYJSOkjlRAu9r7FQbRVVaD+j3+u/DC+MZa6j+jTFbL5rpOsbD+pS343fuA6 /0FHYUdlNJfCc5vlGn7/uW1iNi5hSTWP2x7LMnwQqtHqa99WEXXoePTSHbA9MlhcqBom rxig== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmY1ihJwnSS/bSxK2zGMShl4Yh9eNipCB8isfLUZJ0JGpUay8dmsmX9IktH1GDSso5v1DNw X-Received: by 10.140.92.13 with SMTP id a13mr23882678qge.88.1406084010916; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.65] ([96.236.21.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w15sm1707693qay.34.2014.07.22.19.53.29 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS From: Paul Kraus In-Reply-To: <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:53:28 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <483CBF75-1553-4A0D-916B-1B3F1B9B7CBA@kraus-haus.org> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:53:39 -0000 On Jul 22, 2014, at 8:33, RW wrote: > Would you rather lose a third of your books, or a third of the > chapters from all your books?=20 If you are storing data you do not want to lose on non-redundant = storage, well, then you deserve what you get. Whether it is UFS or ZFS. What I really do not understand is this mindset that using ZFS (on a = single drive) is an all-or-nothing proposition in terms of failures. = What kind of failure with a partitioned drive and UFS will yield *less* = data loss than ZFS? Bad disk blocks? ZFS sees the bad checksum and lets = you know. What does FreeBSD UFS do with bad blocks (or silently corrupt = blocks)? On the other hand, having to guess up front how much space will be = needed in each of the various (manually managed) partitions is a = crap-shoot. More often than not leaving lots of unused space that = *other* partitions could really make good use of. That is, in my = opinion, the biggest management advantage of ZFS on a single drive=85 = pooled storage with the ability to control it (quotas and reservations). But I have only ever run ZFS on a single drive for testing purposes. All = of my real data is on redundant storage. I rsync the data directories on = my laptop with my server at home on a regular basis (and even use Time = Machine, yes the laptop is a Mac) at the office, so I have THREE copies = of the important data (one of which is redundant). The cost of storage = and low end servers is much, much less than the cost of lost data. -- Paul Kraus paul@kraus-haus.org From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 06:04:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE404993 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:04:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pa0-x22e.google.com (mail-pa0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9876D2309 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:04:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id lj1so1051230pab.5 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:04:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=KYwIoz05B+PgstDKvgfEZK4DU/ajswAvtX7z7zywAQ8=; b=vORNuAWdpiiQ0rbOpsyLJfsBeZgUORi+xeg9eWSVfXKqkbOLFZWzDnmPIw9WGf/MDO V1HhFsVBqkR37y45uYtSZoKJJT/UFOTuiD6F9WX0MRvB9uIbHn8jKEJyChfcgZaZbio2 yNylGoiN4R5iFS2lPjeM4qJmI3U/Wn2LBF8XoZ4j0CbVaKEPs4tD2y7n1PgeKKh8xAMt Piov8vlUdgwahDrV7/k7DDlimxqnyTnf1/OiT8cTnqPIxkidegXt1bibEHlkjNi9btik uyyVFzVU8n+KBsWYsvmsK1C3hrRFpgcm0+QnKe6FUWXH7h2aY89JnqPY4nFHTgFHuFGx BIHQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.70.44.101 with SMTP id d5mr7668126pdm.82.1406095443841; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.72.163 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 23:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 01:04:03 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Problem booting machine From: Brian Wood To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:04:04 -0000 Hi. I'm fairly new to BSD. I've installed PCBSD on three machines, but the last one doesn't boot up. It hangs with: wlan0: Ethernet address: ... ral0: need multicast update callback ral0: need multicast update callback ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This thread is the closest thing I could find: http://forums.pcbsd.org/showthread.php?t=17344 I opened up my case, but didn't see a wifi card. I guess it's part of the motherboard. The machine is two or three years old. Ideas? Thanks. -- Brian Ebenezer Enterprises http://webEbenezer.net From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 07:45:42 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02E962DE for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:45:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from blue.qeng-ho.org (blue.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 737EC2C27 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:45:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6N7jaA6044920; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:45:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Message-ID: <53CF6820.7080103@qeng-ho.org> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:45:36 +0100 From: Arthur Chance User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warren Block , RW Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <20140722203928.6993a78d@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:45:42 -0000 On 23/07/2014 03:32, Warren Block wrote: > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, RW wrote: > >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) >> Warren Block wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Arthur Chance wrote: >>> >>>> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice >>>> physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make >>>> swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? >>> >>> Technically, no, but the system does like to have at least a little >>> swap space and can benefit from it. (I forget where this is >>> explained, tuning(7) maybe.) >> >> This is something that is often repeated, but I don't recall every >> seeing an actual explanation. > > That's what I said, and then somebody pointed to the explanation. But > it was years ago, so now it's hard to remember exactly where it was. As it was me that asked the question I thought I'd better go and look at tuning(7). This says, amongst much else > The swap partition should typically be approximately 2x the size of main > memory for systems with less than 4GB of RAM, or approximately equal to > the size of main memory if you have more. Keep in mind future memory > expansion when sizing the swap partition. Configuring too little swap > can lead to inefficiencies in the VM page scanning code as well as create > issues later on if you add more memory to your machine. On larger sys‐ > tems with multiple SCSI disks (or multiple IDE disks operating on differ‐ > ent controllers), configure swap on each drive. The swap partitions on > the drives should be approximately the same size. The kernel can handle > arbitrary sizes but internal data structures scale to 4 times the largest > swap partition. Keeping the swap partitions near the same size will > allow the kernel to optimally stripe swap space across the N disks. Do > not worry about overdoing it a little, swap space is the saving grace of > UNIX and even if you do not normally use much swap, it can give you more > time to recover from a runaway program before being forced to reboot. Somehow this section feels like it was written a while back. (As do several other parts of the page.) The date on the man page is December 8th 2012, but there's a lot of information in there about sysctl tuning that's liable to have been edited after the swap sizing section. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 10:00:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD4C1C5A for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:00:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951E027FF for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:00:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJBxD4RP6zCy1m for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:00:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id QmaykoPgHwlM for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:00:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJBxD3SXKzCy1l for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:00:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F761B7580 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:00:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:59:50 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux In-Reply-To: <20140722173541.CB433F2F@hub.freebsd.org> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722161629.52E5DD8A@hub.freebsd.org> <20140722173541.CB433F2F@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) X-Face: 4qPv4GNcD; h<7Q/sK>+GqF4=CR@KmnPkSmwd+#%\F`4yjKO3"C]p'z=(oWRnsYBQGM\5g:4skqQY0NnV'dM:Mm:^/_+I@a"; [-s=ogufdF"9ggQ'=y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:00:02 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 19:35:29 +0200 Luciano Mannucci wrote: > Jul 22 19:19:13 mordeus kernel: pid 53847 (sshd), uid 0: exited on signal 11 > > ...hmmm... tomorrow I'll give it a closer look... Well SIGSEV exiting is not elegant, an error message wuold have been smoother but... The linux password is $2y$, freebsd expects $2$, hence the SIGSEV. Omitting the "y" gives me the correct "sshd[38968]: error: PAM: authentication error for user" and the password is not recognized. The man 3 crypt page says that "Other crypt formats may be easily added". I wonder what "easily" means... luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 11:12:02 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56E73ED3 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alogt.com (alogt.com [69.36.191.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26EAA2E57 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:12:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alogt.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date; bh=C7Hu/Eivs/QeR7FU42YoEn1QiSm0mksY7K+XpBjeC2U=; b=cWv+ouJyuwDFbOIDeNKTuOlXG0XbzOK6dD0yPM0HkG0IfPQ1Syz+Vibtl8pPfKJl6LmErb8R1JBrJoIi+apxRd+4hym11GP2VWJNEkj1xZ993XEvGEKW/C8kMJrURdlzpyrcix3AfbTpxj9aAL2IbJwm90cxGoEh5cLf3CKpegs=; Received: from [39.251.220.217] (port=41435 helo=X220.alogt.com) by sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net with esmtpsa (SSLv3:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1X9tj3-004O81-K4; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 04:24:46 -0600 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:24:37 +0800 From: Erich Dollansky To: Arthur Chance Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Message-ID: <20140723182437.76a21d55@X220.alogt.com> In-Reply-To: <53CF6820.7080103@qeng-ho.org> References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <20140722203928.6993a78d@gumby.homeunix.com> <53CF6820.7080103@qeng-ho.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - alogt.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: sl-508-2.slc.westdc.net: authenticated_id: erichsfreebsdlist@alogt.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: RW , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:12:02 -0000 Hi, On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:45:36 +0100 Arthur Chance wrote: > On 23/07/2014 03:32, Warren Block wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, RW wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:24:13 -0600 (MDT) > >> Warren Block wrote: > >> > >>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2014, Arthur Chance wrote: > >>> > >>>> I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice > >>>> physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I > >>>> make swap? Do I even need swap with this much memory? > >>> as you have heard a lot of opinions and also found tuning, allow me to share my experience. I am still use swap to be size double of the RAM. The reason is simple. Disk space is cheap. You do not need a fast device for swap if you have a lot of memory but swap makes FreeBSD survive if memory becomes a problem. It also helps you giving you time to fix things manually while the machine is running. On the other side, I have had a single occasion within the last some 5 years in which a big swap helped me. So, it is really rare that you will need a large swap partition. Erich From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 11:18:39 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8842DA4 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:18:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com (mail-wi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25E302EB8 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:18:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id f8so7394482wiw.5 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 04:18:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=L+HHkJFpxaWPWf2JLnziQaMtBfqHtzpc+K+qUkpDHmk=; b=Ykon/zpVVrcemvCapjJFdlQBY6327rNq9ie77JdSetXDsc7M7sHhwonjWfkxZluio7 a/do04zG4UZ0vZ4vmuOc7vFE30Ra10McPcmq3dGDefyc6kcI4UbYaZN/2A0JgBrWMMHK 2pl1dHCGkP4aNnghLnHUtrSvFS0NoT6xgqje0pqWQ8DIBt8E7/28Nrw9REmperJeT6z9 1/a33KbDKRAQUivpQAVriVWejNODNY4FvFcoMu/qO2TbW0B/kO206KJHUDhMv+c+P5Sm ujEOFkZlyLrjX7XrbKkKJd35MeQMmXZTnCdhedn7NUyMJKM2cR85M5eViRBrHeHlrnm8 4ifQ== X-Received: by 10.180.73.139 with SMTP id l11mr2287316wiv.30.1406114317370; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 04:18:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: zhao6014@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.153.225 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 04:18:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jov Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:18:17 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: i53ooIFCZ2WFW-ld5imF6nzShDw Message-ID: Subject: run sh rc cause two cron process running To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:18:39 -0000 when I change something in the /etc/rc.conf,I want to test the config without reboot.I find cd /etc/ && sh rc can do it.but after the command,My system have 2 cron process,and some cron drived E-mail send twice a day. But I find other daemon such ntpd do not have this problem. Is this a bug? Jov blog: http:amutu.com/blog From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 11:55:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEE938D0 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:55:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from the-host.seacom.mu (ge-0.ln-01-jnb.za.seacomnet.com [41.87.104.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F27D2213 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:55:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=the-host.localnet) by the-host.seacom.mu with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1X9sY7-0003Sp-Qq; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:09:23 +0200 From: Mark Tinka Reply-To: mark.tinka@seacom.mu Organization: SEACOM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, tyler@tysdomain.com Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:09:21 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.6 (Linux/2.6.37.6-24-desktop; KDE/4.6.0; i686; ; ) References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <53CE8F62.8090701@tysdomain.com> In-Reply-To: <53CE8F62.8090701@tysdomain.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart3227683.qMCVUA0Cfc"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201407231109.21577.mark.tinka@seacom.mu> Cc: Arthur Chance X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 11:55:07 -0000 --nextPart3227683.qMCVUA0Cfc Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 06:20:50 PM Littlefield, Tyler=20 wrote: > That number was always weird and never made much sense. > What swap ultimately comes down to though is you, the > user. If you foresee needing more than 32 gb ram, feel > free to add more swap space. If you don't, maybe 8 gb or > so just to be on the safe side. If you really need 32 gb > swap space, I'd recommend just getting more ram, as that > will be much, much faster than thrashing. I've always kept swap at no more than 4GB, whether I have=20 256MB or 256GB of RAM :-). Of course, swap is very important when doing VM's, but=20 that's another issue entirely :-). Mark. --nextPart3227683.qMCVUA0Cfc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAABAgAGBQJTz3vBAAoJEGcZuYTeKm+GWbAP/iZaow6vzMkKyQwnmI3nLF7v xw4tcbFR+AgF6Mu0rV9IgcCX5FDZI7g6Jos4KiFYpVpbqA3TBIRLco7mxz9Wv5vn nat1ll4wCdMjTyGbxbqw6Wh8gdg+O+TI0ZPUAldu7t9myFeCWjD/NyynfTITwGOf bTVcP6HDREjCchXr+7Xi7GCnWS2lLqU5OiSTWVpK0DPxEiuVP0klh+0OyO1579lb FxVxmAcVTJpJd647CkiL6HQPa9al7zG1wbLlCU4yewW22SrZMlD3WgpWPomPGleh m2rCLH4D9ELVtABJETNpkKCnFoHHt1yjvjCZ10zNw61eeumpTO8tliot9JJV8JId YIHwj6Yg2Bn49zvNqghxhr2MYynxQNZuwLOhCV+67OKY65fAYBJfLy5mvnhsXJ8K IUzA8oB2TIO2yn4yfwqz8UJmPNL1LLeUcCKR0COvKo1XXXLa9kLg7Du0GCR2KRws PxpsHxn1C5NLM1hS2G/swT49vRGzwziUgHYtgmMK7Iv7RKh4Aachrt9MeYA3X/1I GPDsI6xoTl1Y4yX/zcAPjBFMek0HAtaxiJBn29Gr45JsRctHIigZB4Ft+gzgyVWX DSlznvdmt+1Y1B8eHoOIqVzRHVpITnZAViuJuoou2ffFVDv0Hmch2Q5elTVZNHw+ OMENZao5TgHAlnk9OO1z =FhbH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart3227683.qMCVUA0Cfc-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 12:28:37 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AC52681 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:28:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sender1.zohomail.com (sender1.zohomail.com [74.201.84.155]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435BB2547 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:28:36 +0000 (UTC) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=bsdjunk; d=bsdjunk.com; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to:user-agent; b=Zhkwx/DRBJOk78TgozhDPE9x8ZNQDzeQtDGyoZlGYDAG3P3Pw8POtW5c+09JCyELQ/juSWV60olm coIVtWJ2qjz129cGPACETa+t7csoRPi84T6+4NMoth2fnVPnXOVTPi5BuKI5muh1K2xxF8JEOIQS 4f7prcSm1Dw2OiU+Jwo= Received: from bsdjunk.com (bsdjunk.com [199.48.135.150]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1406118515276862.851582305306; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:31:24 -0500 From: Chris To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? Message-ID: <20140723123123.GA36905@bsdjunk.com> References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> <53CE8F62.8090701@tysdomain.com> <201407231109.21577.mark.tinka@seacom.mu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201407231109.21577.mark.tinka@seacom.mu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Zoho-Virus-Status: 2 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:28:37 -0000 On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 11:09:21AM +0200, Mark Tinka wrote: > On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 06:20:50 PM Littlefield, Tyler > wrote: > > > That number was always weird and never made much sense. > > What swap ultimately comes down to though is you, the > > user. If you foresee needing more than 32 gb ram, feel > > free to add more swap space. If you don't, maybe 8 gb or > > so just to be on the safe side. If you really need 32 gb > > swap space, I'd recommend just getting more ram, as that > > will be much, much faster than thrashing. > > I've always kept swap at no more than 4GB, whether I have > 256MB or 256GB of RAM :-). > > Of course, swap is very important when doing VM's, but > that's another issue entirely :-). > > Mark. Normally it's 2 times amount of ram in the system so in your case it would be a swap of 64G http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/bsdinstall-partitioning.html#configtuning-initial -- Washington, D.C: Wasting your money since 1810. FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE-p3 Mutt 1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Hostname: chris.bsdjunk.com. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 13:02:10 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AC32BC for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:02:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20D562899 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:02:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJGzN0vwzzCy1m for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:02:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id KUBe75C0s8H7 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:02:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJGzM6yrTzCy1l for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:02:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2391B7582 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:02:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:01:57 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux In-Reply-To: <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) X-Face: 4qPv4GNcD; h<7Q/sK>+GqF4=CR@KmnPkSmwd+#%\F`4yjKO3"C]p'z=(oWRnsYBQGM\5g:4skqQY0NnV'dM:Mm:^/_+I@a"; [-s=ogufdF"9ggQ'=y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:02:10 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:37:40 +0100 RW wrote: > > I think that if you respect the fields order and values for > > master.password, the hash will work fine. > > See "man 5 master.password", and if you need to add another algorithm > > see "man 3 crytp" to understand in witch algorithm you have hashed the > > old passwords (for example, if the hash begins with $1$ is in MD5) > > I very much doubt that. FreeBSDs MD5 is a complicated iterative hash > not just MD5. Even where Linux uses the same algorithm for a hash, > there's no standard for the number of interations. Well, actually I have to say that no, MD5 works "as is" if taken from a linux shadow password file, while blowfish doesn't (at least the "y" version). I have'nt tested DES yet. Cheers, Luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 13:03:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21363189 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:03:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relaygateway01.edpnet.net (relaygateway01.edpnet.net [212.71.1.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD17B28AE for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:03:54 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AnIGABqyz1NNbXBi/2dsb2JhbABZgw5SQRaCeMRyiFAXdoQIJTNfEw4CEQUliH0JmQqPJJBthlyPaIJigU4FjkWMZwGNbIMTg0GDSjsvAQE X-IPAS-Result: AnIGABqyz1NNbXBi/2dsb2JhbABZgw5SQRaCeMRyiFAXdoQIJTNfEw4CEQUliH0JmQqPJJBthlyPaIJigU4FjkWMZwGNbIMTg0GDSjsvAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,717,1400018400"; d="scan'208";a="266306010" Received: from 77.109.112.98.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net (HELO mordor.lan) ([77.109.112.98]) by relaygateway01.edpnet.net with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 23 Jul 2014 14:33:51 +0200 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:02:11 +0200 From: Julien Cigar To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: freebsd + postgresql Message-ID: <20140723130211.GQ1848@mordor.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2D20dG0OqTzqkNh7" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:03:55 -0000 --2D20dG0OqTzqkNh7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Any idea if the changes/patches from https://www.kib.kiev.ua/kib/pgsql_perf_v2.0.pdf will be merged to 10-STABLE soon? We have a rather old PostgreSQL that we would like to upgrade soon .. Thanks! Julien --=20 Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform (http://www.biodiversity.be) PGP fingerprint: EEF9 F697 4B68 D275 7B11 6A25 B2BB 3710 A204 23C0 No trees were killed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced. --2D20dG0OqTzqkNh7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAABCgAGBQJTz7JTAAoJEAi2KiTKQR5pDPsP/3P24vWpulYSfEB01y5hGxto Ueu5LF+Za+5x+zkL8oensoHTbz/vEn+AVnND9Au9N3e0weexGXVKVDsE9yqhpwLA c5f2Lgxi5RANwedCL1+u6atd16e4//5srti2/60wvZ+37gJPU69Dd4QnZi2YYp2k hOd63wuT3zYTmCvjijYr3eHFFdc5Nmn8MbowlQlsYqXvAeSFtUVesuTaTrbjOfD+ UezeEBOayb3VbC2HF0/ec0biPPqrWncNGMxgx+lntBpk/bwiZoa2Q05n2nBtkv87 gpGQ+jjFbsMgUUv/EVjzq4+ZidZOgmTG5u8DOnvCKzruqaz6KEXctJy+b3RFCkey nKMyR8wmjLCqxSVDqeJJJ2i5pGh3II6CvjTsfsBwI3hffW2JJ0DgnGRRX9D+Is2S Xk1gtIlT6SOJ1ku02EZnXh9Jdlh3LtN+e4QRt+nr9GIqh0zklcQhS7ynlM68X7ZZ LI340hNplw8XXOuTIiYB7GsROhX1L83ZRZJ1Ce3/n8C2IZp4hld4ScoHGLhFzHB5 z5I79kcrG0lCj0yGCYZ69oha6VFhNlkSPOllukWNfWOTODd+V8AKCJ2FihhPLN5K hMW+GUdCjB1ErRTC1YJlTXk+mel+vRjFud5NjOCar5kO6N3yXavvZ1qByNQCx4EO XldoH+G7CVWdxrzyROKU =LrcC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2D20dG0OqTzqkNh7-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 13:15:01 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08C967C5 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:15:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAA8C29B0 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:14:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id k15so1221124qaq.41 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 06:14:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=hFBh/zdKsVLMqzS/M8YPzJQJ+UCqslRzRjnxhhjoPh4=; b=lLbhNjeva87Uig7bwE0zGVxkSeiAN5XuPzfjfCSb1fw3vx/waIryAZWulLqDDLgIMP V6dIbP/760lAb9PHQ9NaTGBbyYlGoy82GO5voFni3zpywPVKP4bSa6vPsYUwqDheX+7M HYm7QALNNNBbNw47EPH10WCpD9eDlVInX57mP3CN+WwfERhqXG2Nbaha2Nq/JiH2GRVb zo/UMi0DrPMJA54/VCLQsv1nnNHWM010YCMgBmVHLDs3Uyb/vzVE8TvjwEiadNo+oTZI lOAPtTQ3zj8Cl+IjO6QhCqGMDrFLNIp+K4cfoHA+xUZ5WpcoCFKNaIIJe1pNWqQE096k HONg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl0fip8+wcuNNXaYZV3JDJFI68fDLQ0W0IoO1DaRkmybc9BfRugp0/dJxyg5fxUfEgF8aPi X-Received: by 10.224.43.196 with SMTP id x4mr1631006qae.63.1406119768719; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.65] ([96.236.21.80]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y79sm3120314qgy.18.2014.07.23.05.49.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: How much swap space for a 32 GB RAM system? From: Paul Kraus In-Reply-To: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:49:26 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <53CE8BB8.7030303@qeng-ho.org> To: FreeBSD-Questions X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:15:01 -0000 On Jul 22, 2014, at 12:05, Arthur Chance wrote: > I'm getting a new machine with 32 GB of memory. The old "twice = physical memory" sizing seems ridiculous, so how big should I make swap? = Do I even need swap with this much memory? Back to the original question=85 With a large amount of RAM (usually = defined as greater than 4GB), how much swap do I really need? I first started seeing that question back in about 1997 or 1998, but for = Solaris boxes that had grown to over 1GB RAM. At the time both RAM and = disk drives were expensive, and disk drives were typically 500MB (at the = largest). The rule of =93for servers configure 2+ times your RAM as = swap=94 and the rule for desktops was 1 to 1.5 times. This rule of thumb = was old then. The question then (as now) was why. Under SunOS 4.1 you could not run = the system without swap as the kernel allocated =93backing store=94 or = swap space for all (note that, ALL) memory allocated. This was because = RAM was a very limited resource and swapping was common, so having the = swap space allocated made sense. With the release of SunOS 5 (Solaris 2.x and later) the situation = changed and swap was no longer required*. You could run a Solaris 2 = system with NO swap configured. This was because Solaris 2 did not swap = in the traditional sense, it paged. In other words, entire processes = were not swapped out (the traditional meaning of the term to swap), = rather, as the system came under memory pressure, individual pages (8KB) = of RAM were paged out (but the device was still called the swap device). = If the system came under enormous memory pressure, then entire processes = would be swapped out. Chapter 13 of Adrian Cockcroft and Richard = Pettit=92s book, =93Sun Performance and Tuning=94 describes this quite = clearly for SunOS version prior to 5.7 (Solaris 7), when the memory = management sub-system was completely rewritten. The question for FreeBSD has to go back to how memory is managed and how = swap space is used (ignoring the crash dump function). I have not seen = anyone post a good description of how memory management works under = FreeBSD and I do not have the coding skills to just =93read the source=94,= so if someone reading this wrote that code or understands it, I would = love to have a really good detailed description to help make decisions = about RAM and swap. My largest FreeBSD system has 32GB of RAM and I have 32GB of swap = configured, but that is the exception not the rule. I have a much = smaller server I am building right now that has 16GB and only 8GB swap. = Remember to use multiple swap partitions and match the sizes. * The exception, and one that was not well documented, was the use of = Shared Memory under Solaris, at least up through Solaris 10. For every = page of shared memory allocated a page of swap space is allocated as = well. I do not know why, but that is the way it worked. I had a very = large (at the time) Oracle DB server have really weird issues because we = had very little swap (enough to hold the kernel in a crash dump) and = were trying to use multiple GB of shared memory. -- Paul Kraus paul@kraus-haus.org From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 13:40:00 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BDCDBA0 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:40:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "ca.infracaninophile.co.uk" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 228512BE6 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:39:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ox-dell39.ox.adestra.com (no-reverse-dns.metronet-uk.com [85.199.232.226] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6NDdqAe048501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:39:52 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Authentication-Results: lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none header.from=infracaninophile.co.uk DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk s6NDdqAe048501 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1406122792; bh=g6sjNwHjk8ehywq1kbEbTzVfvKPWQqK4an20DfwAWeI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; z=Date:=20Wed,=2023=20Jul=202014=2014:39:45=20+0100|From:=20Matthew =20Seaman=20|To:=20freebsd-questi ons@freebsd.org|Subject:=20Re:=20freebsd=20+=20postgresql|Referenc es:=20<20140723130211.GQ1848@mordor.lan>|In-Reply-To:=20<201407231 30211.GQ1848@mordor.lan>; b=uL+p+nzB+12VShiNK99sa1u5pSyrtqnzqDdaSFl2+O6pZE2gB4NbEeeun+aP03EN6 FSrFQQnBVl/1kOViiU5dnHtdSceWVVwYU0KMOw1XiV5v4JSTsN+lUtsBj5X66oYxto Oi9Qjkd13hK72hoSDDue7VDZXRNejequcvXgmgIY= X-Authentication-Warning: lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk: Host no-reverse-dns.metronet-uk.com [85.199.232.226] (may be forged) claimed to be ox-dell39.ox.adestra.com Message-ID: <53CFBB21.1090608@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:39:45 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd + postgresql References: <20140723130211.GQ1848@mordor.lan> In-Reply-To: <20140723130211.GQ1848@mordor.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HhuITkmB7idspxosXPAPcGRjVTSqC4KjE" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.4 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,RDNS_NONE,SPF_FAIL,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:40:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --HhuITkmB7idspxosXPAPcGRjVTSqC4KjE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 07/23/14 14:02, Julien Cigar wrote: > Any idea if the changes/patches from > https://www.kib.kiev.ua/kib/pgsql_perf_v2.0.pdf will be merged to > 10-STABLE soon? We have a rather old PostgreSQL that we would like to > upgrade soon .. Those precise patches are unlikely to be committed anywhere, as they are proof of concept / exploratory stuff only. However, it's pretty easy to apply them to 10-STABLE or 10.0-RELEASE sources and compile your own custom kernel. Don't believe blindly that these patches will improve performance for you. Test against your own workload to be sure. Best recommendation at the moment is to stick with postgresql-9.2.x -- unless your database is small enough to fit entirely within RAM, in which case you could well find that upgrading to pg 9.3 makes little difference to performance. But, like I said, don't take anyone's word on it: measure your performance and be certain. Cheers, Matthew --HhuITkmB7idspxosXPAPcGRjVTSqC4KjE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJTz7snXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQxOUYxNTRFQ0JGMTEyRTUwNTQ0RTNGMzAw MDUxM0YxMEUwQTlFNEU3AAoJEABRPxDgqeTnzQkP/0dXsxaY/rGXeOeSKVHzucqD swMgoFGmvGXOZeFWv9m8ZJ6G0xPORexkXQlrfWyPr2D01klG5x5jR0/emR7fLKaI gIf9ihCFK328jZUUBb/VYHde92ysp1YZZ8bj328vIOtyXcEeodIoIIwBrlVi3vXE 5eMpGKS2zfr+FKs32Gah8iTdVCaIzUAs1qIm9QECE403cLFqZwH5qc8XWHFfCC0m wP5nxw04uYTE9AVUWKM7BT5iDXJfe0wXBCYiYj+pFDTmMRPMHtFBJ3QtZ0Rw8YAj TCY94a1nPPR9Z414OaiL1TnOPvtIU6ZSYWC0dgud5QJDTLaHusIS6hyBzY/RU+W8 fyO1ELu2k3A/fWfnequ2pRpnza5WyJle31ingpHgIPlrnXlNOepdeMAWKQmj8wgI VmrEz3Zq3X58NaME2AcE5Wfe6otBvuL8bc/CNw9Llo+XUAgso1Xjv11tGj2f/ZWc /6X+TUv3E1PV23ZckZgdr1/7GVlJ3HiyCyFw/93cvfdq2PQa1Kltr4PqdT8Qx4dW EDWo7p63mtRRqblyeSEiTyjBBq8qQxsHwKBEW+U+Oit/G2LV80UY6tEFQydk6jeJ Quls4oGDFOGDN9pEebGIsuGu+MXIuBRhpigpVW71j69/EwUgAE8zkpVYjUmXgGSk TVpJtFUw6kUC/mReCV/j =0n3n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HhuITkmB7idspxosXPAPcGRjVTSqC4KjE-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 14:04:26 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7697C13A for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:04:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DUB004-OMC4S1.hotmail.com (dub004-omc4s1.hotmail.com [157.55.2.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "*.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF75C2E66 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from DUB405-EAS179 ([157.55.2.71]) by DUB004-OMC4S1.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22701); Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:03:16 -0700 X-TMN: [fgsJuPBNYwZen44qZjSepZoVdoZvzfOO] X-Originating-Email: [zamora.morgane@hotmail.fr] Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Luis Pereira shared an Animoto video with you! From: morgane zamora Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:03:12 +0200 To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jul 2014 14:03:16.0086 (UTC) FILETIME=[D96C0960:01CFA67E] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:04:26 -0000 Hi!=20 Does it's really the luis pereira's email?=20 Envoy=C3=A9 de mon iPhone= From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 14:14:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B7958AF for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:14:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server1.shellworld.net (shellworld.net [69.60.117.94]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D822FED for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:14:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server1.shellworld.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server1.shellworld.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8AF22294B for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:08:36 -0400 (EDT) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: What Happens if you Run pkg2ng Multiple Times? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <97847.1406124516.1@server1.shellworld.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:08:36 -0500 From: "Martin G. McCormick" Message-Id: <20140723140836.E8AF22294B@server1.shellworld.net> X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:14:20 -0000 To make a long story short, I logged in to the same system twice instead of two different systems once. I realized something was wrong when pkg2ng got to the shared libraries part and one of the instances reported they were locked . Everything seems to be okay but I am just checking while backups are all recent. Martin McCormick From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 14:32:40 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAF8F465 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:32:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from blue.qeng-ho.org (blue.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 396E1226D for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:32:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org (8.14.7/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6NEWaRh045805; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:32:37 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Message-ID: <53CFC784.4060403@qeng-ho.org> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:32:36 +0100 From: Arthur Chance User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Benfell , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: UEFI boot on 10.0 STABLE? References: <20140722184900.917B012C017A@mail.parts-unknown.org> In-Reply-To: <20140722184900.917B012C017A@mail.parts-unknown.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:32:40 -0000 On 22/07/2014 19:48, David Benfell wrote: > Hi all, > > The way I'm booting into FreeBSD right now is far from ideal. For what > it's worth, this is an Asus X202e notebook. > > What I'm doing now is using a Debian kFreeBSD disk to get to grub. It > has an option to boot from the first hard disk. That's literally all I > need to boot FreeBSD. I'm presently using legacy BIOS emulation to boot > the kFreeBSD disk but its a GPT disk. > > I also needed legacy mode to boot the FreeBSD installation disk so I > could even install FreeBSD. > > I did create an additional EFI partition at the beginning of the disk, > modifying the default install. > > What I'm seeing now looks kind of like a chicken-and-egg problem. I > tried installing grub-efi-amd64 but it fails to work the appropriate > magic and cast the appropriate spell. I suspect because the disk is GPT > running under legacy mode. > > I also tried rEFInd which has helped enormously with previous linux > installations. No joy this time. > > I've now blown both grub-efi and rEFInd away on the theory that I need > to start fresh. > > It looks like code to deal with UEFI has been merged in to HEAD (a > statement that doesn't actually mean all that much to me) and I *am* at > this moment trying to upgrade from 10.0 RELEASE to STABLE. Is needed > code in STABLE (and not in RELEASE)? > > Has anyone found a path through this? Where/what is it? Should I just > wait for 10.1? I've just spent an hour or two looking through the UEFI relevant bits of the svn repository as I've acquired a new box with UEFI. As you say, the UEFI boot code has been merged in HEAD. HEAD is another way to refer to FreeBSD-CURRENT, which the Handbook describes as > FreeBSD-CURRENT is the “bleeding edge” of FreeBSD development and > FreeBSD-CURRENT users are expected to have a high degree of technical > skill. Less technical users who wish to track a development branch > should track FreeBSD-STABLE instead. aka "here be dragons". As far as I can see, UEFI booting has not yet been merged into 10-STABLE, so no luck there. However various people have reported on both the mailing lists and the forums that legacy booting works for 10.0. The gotcha for Asus kit appears to be the fact that if you've got a GPT formatted disk, you have to set the active flag on the protective MBR in order to get legacy booting working. MBR formatted disks just work. Take a look at this forum thread for more information https://forums.freebsd.org/viewtopic.php?t=42781 As for whether 10.1 will have UEFI booting, that's way over my pay grade, but I hope it does. I've not found anything about what 10.1 will contain yet, and it's at least 4 months off. http://www.freebsd.org/releases/10.1R/schedule.html From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 16:11:48 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B731CF19 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:11:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from baobab.bilink.net (baobab.bilink.net [212.45.144.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E98F2DD4 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:11:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJMB53W3czCy1m for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:11:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mcs.it Received: from baobab.bilink.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (baobab.mcs.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 11027) with ESMTP id 8Mj-6NbwjLeU for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:11:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.mcs.it (hermes.mcs.it [192.168.132.21]) by baobab.bilink.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJMB52Dg9zCy1l for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:11:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mordeus (unknown [192.168.44.6]) by hermes.mcs.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389341B7580 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:11:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:11:30 +0200 From: Luciano Mannucci To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Migrating users from Linux In-Reply-To: <20140723130216.5EBA0135@hub.freebsd.org> References: <20140722160329.24aff9e6@mordeus> <53CE75BE.30407@inti.gob.ar> <20140722163740.157c7156@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140723130216.5EBA0135@hub.freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) X-Face: 4qPv4GNcD; h<7Q/sK>+GqF4=CR@KmnPkSmwd+#%\F`4yjKO3"C]p'z=(oWRnsYBQGM\5g:4skqQY0NnV'dM:Mm:^/_+I@a"; [-s=ogufdF"9ggQ'=y MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:11:48 -0000 On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:01:57 +0200 Luciano Mannucci wrote: > a linux shadow password file, while blowfish doesn't (at least the "y" > version). Nor does the "a" version. I'll try to dig a bit before giving up on the migration front. > I have'nt tested DES yet. This one works like a charm. luciano. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.lesassaie.IT/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 17:00:39 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80C333D6 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:00:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "ca.infracaninophile.co.uk" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 266B12283 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:00:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ox-dell39.ox.adestra.com (no-reverse-dns.metronet-uk.com [85.199.232.226] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6NH0X0H053048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:00:33 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Authentication-Results: lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none header.from=infracaninophile.co.uk DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk s6NH0X0H053048 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1406134833; bh=5dk3F7xaH1MzgyriLrLBIx5d/u0n2w02UjkLv0c8+VI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; z=Date:=20Wed,=2023=20Jul=202014=2018:00:27=20+0100|From:=20Matthew =20Seaman=20|To:=20freebsd-questi ons@freebsd.org|Subject:=20Re:=20What=20Happens=20if=20you=20Run=2 0pkg2ng=20Multiple=20Times?|References:=20<20140723140836.E8AF2229 4B@server1.shellworld.net>|In-Reply-To:=20<20140723140836.E8AF2229 4B@server1.shellworld.net>; b=HqQV4WrAFDxF1baGNjrnsqrXNzLMW2sQyUzHl2aaK7UsHxZiTaCi3tR9AfaHL2W7f SIA+bZ+hXLb1etC1K5PCJKwc76cqzx+g3tj3c5xP2yJjOy6y05lKAiGbfKXsov0Mdp Vh1DiObxP/rbGlQB9JXXxLJtoy7tloWaLUvbOqX8= X-Authentication-Warning: lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk: Host no-reverse-dns.metronet-uk.com [85.199.232.226] (may be forged) claimed to be ox-dell39.ox.adestra.com Message-ID: <53CFEA2B.60803@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:00:27 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What Happens if you Run pkg2ng Multiple Times? References: <20140723140836.E8AF22294B@server1.shellworld.net> In-Reply-To: <20140723140836.E8AF22294B@server1.shellworld.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qOogV1psUTksi8X9hqwpQHLaH8BhWCLAT" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.4 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,RDNS_NONE,SPF_FAIL autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:00:39 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --qOogV1psUTksi8X9hqwpQHLaH8BhWCLAT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 07/23/14 15:08, Martin G. McCormick wrote: > To make a long story short, I logged in to the same system > twice instead of two different systems once. I realized > something was wrong when pkg2ng got to the shared libraries part > and one of the instances reported they were locked . Everything > seems to be okay but I am just checking while backups are all > recent. It depends if you updated or installed some other packages between the two runs of pkg2ng. If you didn't then it should be harmless. Otherwise, try running 'pkg info' and see if there are things obviously missing or added. Even if you have screwed up your package database, you can recover a lot by reinstalling the packages concerned. Note that screwing up the package DB will have no operational effect on your system until you need to do your next round of package updates so it may be better to just live with the broken pkg DB for a while, and plan out reinstalling stuff at leisure rather than dropping everything and trying to fix it immediately. Cheers, Matthew --qOogV1psUTksi8X9hqwpQHLaH8BhWCLAT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJTz+oxXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQxOUYxNTRFQ0JGMTEyRTUwNTQ0RTNGMzAw MDUxM0YxMEUwQTlFNEU3AAoJEABRPxDgqeTnTlMP/1vvdjDsvjPjQndEBLElEd5/ T/Qe7RMZcxAqWdKk9uNdasyO9AEmSmQ3eEVsCZR1RsT7psyAJc7YJxPP6nZP8yD1 KsgdBB3B6emUDs8yd0XVcrLxOlsX/IBTYcN7F9EtpZBUJ37MmYu2NQtWQKUG/uZK 89Y07tR/4NvNcKWqUSlsLBEtrajhwrwYe1kwu5iiXigAty8Csceh2njYcsvmqRMT dIf7LeGa/pAkB20S/NPUBZcybA0I1npuLF/nsEw9/ZLXfUsdeVs6MaKhJiyWSQGV l2JYmAdNLvwKzDhv6Mq7rs7+oX4fvPEdwggRBuQ+1xMXkWJqBuF04OkWQljp5G7S 281MQWx7iTVpEliPzHROKjuDV/ZhsPm1eOj91h02q1C1xd1sF/eodvNlnQx4xjQg 6cTSeIye61OTppFhSsfo7kGd0cJi9F7mi43/QSKcqRcesZ8zHxLVxf6ZQamYcZiZ 3VGsTXcVqih3ujiSd2pWSVeb74oNbNyDVWyVJbPXkwHENyTkeYT54ugRxZHeEkwJ RZz11PFqVvruEYHGSmjqIzdKOYjJqtUOOXM6PpqX6uULtsLzJX1xTdJDRoBE0sKC 7r0p3EkoUuMhfPJKBuXK/rjopkdn1vueJcTmTI1BOUCoD8FDs+JjNNheP77VDArz gKLEUcBTBaEExgN0J3eW =4HSn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qOogV1psUTksi8X9hqwpQHLaH8BhWCLAT-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 17:33:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B4652E0 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:33:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from oneyou.mcmli.com (oneyou.mcmli.com [IPv6:2001:470:1d:8da::100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "oneyou.mcmli.com", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 175382697 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:33:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from sentry.24cl.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:558:6017:a2:a860:3073:4c46:6ac9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "sentry.24cl.com", Issuer "Mike's Certificate Authority" (verified OK)) by oneyou.mcmli.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3hJP050FWDz1DPH for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from BigBloat (bigbloat.24cl.home [10.20.1.4]) by sentry.24cl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJP022xdVz1C7W for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <201407231333010555.00FDB5EB@smtp.24cl.home> In-Reply-To: <20140723162119.GA46908@neutralgood.org> References: <20140723162119.GA46908@neutralgood.org> X-Mailer: Courier 3.50.00.09.1098 (http://www.rosecitysoftware.com) (P) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:33:01 -0400 From: "Mike." To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: run sh rc cause two cron process running Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:33:12 -0000 On 7/23/2014 at 12:21 PM kpneal@pobox.com wrote: |On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 07:18:17PM +0800, Jov wrote: |> when I change something in the /etc/rc.conf,I want to test the config |> without reboot.I find cd /etc/ && sh rc can do it.but after the |command,My |> system have 2 cron process,and some cron drived E-mail send twice a day. |> But I find other daemon such ntpd do not have this problem. |> Is this a bug? | |No, that's pilot error. | |If you want to test changes for a specific service then stop and then start |that service. For example: | |# /etc/rc.d/cron stop |# /etc/rc.d/cron start | |Wait a second or two between the stopping and the starting just to be safe. | |If you want to test the entire boot process then you have no real choice |except to reboot. But I will say that in all my years I've never created |a problem simply by editing rc.conf that required testing with a reboot. | |I have made changes that required testing with a full reboot, but there was |more to that than changing rc.conf. ============= After I make changes to rc.conf, I always run sh -n rc.conf to check for syntax errors, e.g., a missing quote, which can have a less than positive effect upon the boot process. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 17:52:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 854E9664 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:52:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server1.shellworld.net (shellworld.net [69.60.117.94]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C452879 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:52:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from server1.shellworld.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server1.shellworld.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3A522962 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:52:02 -0400 (EDT) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What Happens if you Run pkg2ng Multiple Times? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5855.1406137922.1@server1.shellworld.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:52:02 -0500 From: "Martin G. McCormick" Message-Id: <20140723175202.3D3A522962@server1.shellworld.net> X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:52:03 -0000 Matthew Seaman writes: > It depends if you updated or installed some other packages between the > two runs of pkg2ng. If you didn't then it should be harmless. Thank you. No changes to actual packages occurred during that time so we'll call it good. pkg info produces a list that seems appropriate for the system. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 19:59:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C982252B; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:59:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-out-05.shaw.ca (smtp-out-05.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C58F23E9; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:59:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=/MiPqmMwFv6ha2ZBybe0ZU9m+O5sXPp7gEUgHVyRzyY= c=1 sm=1 a=cQ5pcHtl6RgA:10 a=QrugwKR0C_UA:10 a=wAGQQ9Az6v0A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=ICAaq7hcmGcA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=IbtKDeXwb2+SRU442/pi3A==:17 a=vaJtXVxTAAAA:8 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=lO9lM-zxv49cNtxdN1AA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=V7tsTZBp22UA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=Uj3LN2fX6ISbhkOz:21 a=w_Mmgyt-bqWFDcGS:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO spqr.komquats.com) ([96.50.7.119]) by smtp-out-05.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2014 13:59:33 -0600 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35B79BE8; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6NJxVSO090905; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:59:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.8/Submit) with ESMTP id s6NJxUb6090902; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:59:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Message-Id: <201407231959.s6NJxUb6090902@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.6 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.komquats.com/ To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? In-Reply-To: Message from "Andrey V. Elsukov" of "Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:12:22 +0400." <53CCF596.1070302@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:59:30 -0700 Cc: Maxim Khitrov , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Mailing List X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:59:35 -0000 In message <53CCF596.1070302@yandex.ru>, "Andrey V. Elsukov" writes: > This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) > --EITUmaAVUtsHLdssNwHpA0G0W8jTQ9d3L > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > On 20.07.2014 18:15, Maxim Khitrov wrote: > > In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the > > SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to > > follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to > > reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done > > upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. > > Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time > > improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD > > developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting > > process easier. > > Even if you just drop current PF from FreeBSD, there is nobody, who want > to port new PF from OpenBSD. And this is not easy task, as you may > think. Gleb has worked on rewriting PF more than half year. So, return > back all improvements after import will be hard enough and, again, > nobody want to do it. :) One way or another something needs to be done and agreed it would be a lot of work. Our options are, a) Import OpenBSD pf thereby throwing away our current investment in pf. All our work to get it up to snuff with our IP stack, SMP, and VIMAGE would be all for naught. We do get a new pf though. Won't be a quality port though. Personally, not my #1 option. b) Merge updates from OpenBSD pf to our pf. Once again a lot of work but we do save the work we put into our pf. Once again a lot of work. We'd be introducing incompatibility. c) Do nothing. It goes without saying that pf would suffer rot and eventually we would need to do something. d) Yank pf from tree. An option but probably not a great one. We do have two other packet filters in the kernel (ipfw and ipfilter) however they are different beasts with different capabilities. I think the reason we have the packet filters we do have is for the capabilities they bring to the table. I for one have run more than one in the same kernel because each has different capabilities. e) We could add capability to pf on a piecemeal basis. Option (b) but as time permits. Remember, people have jobs and commitments. Funding would help address this. f) Finally, how does NetBSD's npf compare to OpenBSD's pf? Is it more compatible with our IP stack? Could this be an option? Anything we do should work with VIMAGE and be able to handle nat66 as well. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 19:33:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93A2C544; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:33:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-out-02.shaw.ca (smtp-out-02.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40AF22181; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:33:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=W0/jygPWOP4vNGB1giqMd6hViTlTWopR5z2gXdBWnF4= c=1 sm=1 a=cQ5pcHtl6RgA:10 a=QrugwKR0C_UA:10 a=wAGQQ9Az6v0A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=ICAaq7hcmGcA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=IbtKDeXwb2+SRU442/pi3A==:17 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=QQ1ygdTaH2DBou8bubUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=V7tsTZBp22UA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO spqr.komquats.com) ([96.50.7.119]) by smtp-out-02.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2014 13:33:32 -0600 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578739BEA; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6NGLVZ8025718; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:21:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.8/Submit) with ESMTP id s6NGJBQF025702; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:19:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Message-Id: <201407231619.s6NGJBQF025702@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.6 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.komquats.com/ To: Adrian Chadd Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? In-Reply-To: Message from Adrian Chadd of "Fri, 18 Jul 2014 12:07:19 -0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 09:18:51 -0700 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:23:50 +0000 Cc: freebsd-current , krad , Gleb Smirnoff , =?UTF-8?B?R2Vycml0IEvDvGhu?= , FreeBSD Mailing List , Matt Bettinger X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:33:33 -0000 In message , Adrian Chadd writes: > On 18 July 2014 07:34, krad wrote: > > that is true and I have not problem using man pages, however thats not the > > way most of the world work and search engines arent exactly new either. We > > should be trying to engage more people not less, and part of that is > > reaching out. > > Then do the port and maintain it. > > The problem isn't the desire to keep things up to date, it's a lack of > people who want that _and_ are willing/able to do it _and_ are funded > somehow. Funding is the issue. Sure, some of us maintain software because a personal need however without funding one has to fit maintaining software into whatever time is left. For those of us who do this without funding you manage to squeeze in an hour here or there. > So, please step up! We'll all love you for it. Many hands make light work. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 20:08:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33AC392F; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:08:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp-out-02.shaw.ca (smtp-out-02.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF7A24D4; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:08:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=W0/jygPWOP4vNGB1giqMd6hViTlTWopR5z2gXdBWnF4= c=1 sm=1 a=cQ5pcHtl6RgA:10 a=QrugwKR0C_UA:10 a=wAGQQ9Az6v0A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=ICAaq7hcmGcA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=IbtKDeXwb2+SRU442/pi3A==:17 a=RJp7PVBWAAAA:8 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=r83zQBVX6GhAEvYNhSoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=V7tsTZBp22UA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO spqr.komquats.com) ([96.50.7.119]) by smtp-out-02.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2014 14:08:10 -0600 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925929BE8; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6NK897a091257; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:08:09 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.8/Submit) with ESMTP id s6NK87MX091253; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:08:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Message-Id: <201407232008.s6NK87MX091253@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.6 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.komquats.com/ To: Daniel Feenberg Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? In-Reply-To: Message from Daniel Feenberg of "Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:35:26 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:08:05 -0700 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:31:31 +0000 Cc: krad , Lars Engels , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Stephen Hurd , Gleb Smirnoff , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Gerrit_K=FChn?= , FreeBSD Mailing List , Matt Bettinger X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:08:12 -0000 In message , Daniel Feenberg writes: > > > On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Lars Engels wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:18:54PM +0100, krad wrote: > >> all of that is true, but you are missing the point. Having two versions of > >> pf on the bsd's at the user level, is a bad thing. It confuses people, > >> which puts them off. Its a classic case of divide an conquer for other > >> platforms. I really like the idea of the openpf version, that has been > >> mentioned in this thread. It would be awesome if it ended up as a supporte > d > >> linux thing as well, so the world could be rid of iptables. However i gues > s > >> thats just an unrealistic dream > > > > And you don't seem to get the point that _someone_ has to do the work. > > No one has stepped up so far, so nothing is going to change. > > > > No one with authority has yet said that "If an updated pf were available, > would be welcomed". Rather they have said "An updated pf would not be > suitable, as it would be incompatible with existing configuration files". > If the latter is indeed the case, there is little incentive for anyone > to go to the effort of porting the newer pf. After all, the reward for > the work is chiefly in glory, and if there is to be no glory, the work > is unlikely to be done. I disagree. One does not do this for the glory. One does this because the nail hurts enough to do something about it. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 21:14:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C04B4640; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:14:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (ar-005-i202.relay.mailchannels.net [162.253.144.84]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F074D2B11; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:14:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: _forwarded-from|107.201.34.133 Received: from mail-24.name-services.com (unknown [10.204.17.9]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A14DE101029; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:05:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: _forwarded-from|107.201.34.133 Received: from mail-24.name-services.com (mail-24.name-services.com [10.253.92.5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.2.12); Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:05:44 GMT X-MC-Relay: Forwarding X-MailChannels-SenderId: _forwarded-from|107.201.34.133 X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: demandmedia Received: from [10.0.10.1] (107-201-34-133.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net [107.201.34.133]) by mail-24.name-services.com with SMTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:05:36 -0700 Message-ID: <53D0239D.1050906@a1poweruser.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:05:33 -0400 From: Fbsd8 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.17 (Windows/20080914) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Cy Schubert Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <201407231959.s6NJxUb6090902@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <201407231959.s6NJxUb6090902@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Maxim Khitrov , "Andrey V. Elsukov" , FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:14:04 -0000 Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <53CCF596.1070302@yandex.ru>, "Andrey V. Elsukov" writes: >> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) >> --EITUmaAVUtsHLdssNwHpA0G0W8jTQ9d3L >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> On 20.07.2014 18:15, Maxim Khitrov wrote: >>> In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the >>> SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to >>> follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to >>> reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done >>> upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. >>> Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time >>> improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD >>> developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting >>> process easier. >> Even if you just drop current PF from FreeBSD, there is nobody, who want >> to port new PF from OpenBSD. And this is not easy task, as you may >> think. Gleb has worked on rewriting PF more than half year. So, return >> back all improvements after import will be hard enough and, again, >> nobody want to do it. :) > > One way or another something needs to be done and agreed it would be a lot > of work. Our options are, > > a) Import OpenBSD pf thereby throwing away our current investment in pf. > All our work to get it up to snuff with our IP stack, SMP, and VIMAGE would > be all for naught. We do get a new pf though. Won't be a quality port > though. Personally, not my #1 option. > > b) Merge updates from OpenBSD pf to our pf. Once again a lot of work but we > do save the work we put into our pf. Once again a lot of work. We'd be > introducing incompatibility. > > c) Do nothing. It goes without saying that pf would suffer rot and > eventually we would need to do something. > > d) Yank pf from tree. An option but probably not a great one. We do have > two other packet filters in the kernel (ipfw and ipfilter) however they are > different beasts with different capabilities. I think the reason we have > the packet filters we do have is for the capabilities they bring to the > table. I for one have run more than one in the same kernel because each has > different capabilities. > > e) We could add capability to pf on a piecemeal basis. Option (b) but as > time permits. Remember, people have jobs and commitments. Funding would > help address this. > > f) Finally, how does NetBSD's npf compare to OpenBSD's pf? Is it more > compatible with our IP stack? Could this be an option? > > Anything we do should work with VIMAGE and be able to handle nat66 as well. > > Hello Cy; Finally a voice I recognize. If I remember correctly you stepped up to the plate earlier this year and did for ipfilter the same kind of things this thread is talking about for pf. IE; apply upstream maintenance and convert to FreeBSD standards. I think your work was a BSD fork of Darrow's ipfilter which from this point on all upstream maintenance must be hand merged into the BSD fork. I am a long time ipfilter user and thank you for your dedication and work ethics getting the updated ipfilter into 10.0 and 9.3 so quickly. So as someone who has been there and done that already you have unique experience to really know the size of the task in hours to accomplish a pf upgrade. Could you list the tasks and hours it took you to perform the ipfilter upgrade so readers can have a real insight into what they are asking for? I agree with your option "e" above, but I would re-word it this way. Using the pf fork we already have in place, hand merge upstream differences in piecemeal chunks as time permits. The openbsd new syntax being the first chunk, closely followed by VIMAGE awareness. When it comes to someone volunteering to do the work, many of us would step up, but the fact is only a very very few people have the coding and kernel knowledge to even consider doing this. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 21:30:28 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36E9FAB5 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:30:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtpb.telissant.net (smtpb.telissant.net [199.233.230.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1A12C54 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:30:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from barrida.3dresearch.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpb.telissant.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBF9B2734E for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:30:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at telissant.net Received: from smtpb.telissant.net ([127.0.0.1]) by barrida.3dresearch.com (barrida.3dresearch.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UzdzSuMv7PnF for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doncurzio.3dresearch.com (pool-108-3-92-199.pitbpa.east.verizon.net [108.3.92.199]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtpb.telissant.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AAC152731F for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doncurzio.3dresearch.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by doncurzio.3dresearch.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 21B11A1E2C for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:29:54 -0400 From: Janos Dohanics To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Disk space economy Message-Id: <20140723172954.e86883fcc8f54ee7ccbe32fd@3dresearch.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.24.19; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:30:28 -0000 Hello List, I have a directory which contains 48 files. 35 of these files are large, close to 2 GB (reported by ls -l). 7 of the files a smaller than 4 K, the rest of the files are few dozen Ks in size. This is a FreeBSD 10 system with ZFS and RAIDZ2. du -h reports the directory to be 208G. du -A -h reports the directory to be 69G. It seems there is 2G wasted for each 1G stored data - would you explain why and what can I do make more economical use of disk space? -- Janos Dohanics From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 21:40:58 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C955DC28 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from btw.pki2.com (btw.pki2.com [IPv6:2001:470:a:6fd::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F2C32DA2 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by btw.pki2.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6NLeiMr000220; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:40:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd@penx.com) Authentication-Results: btw.pki2.com; dkim=none reason="no signature"; dkim-adsp=none Subject: Re: Disk space economy From: Dennis Glatting To: Janos Dohanics In-Reply-To: <20140723172954.e86883fcc8f54ee7ccbe32fd@3dresearch.com> References: <20140723172954.e86883fcc8f54ee7ccbe32fd@3dresearch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:40:44 -0700 Message-ID: <1406151644.20477.37.camel@btw.pki2.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SoftwareMunitions-MailScanner-Information: Dennis Glatting X-SoftwareMunitions-MailScanner-ID: s6NLeiMr000220 X-SoftwareMunitions-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: freebsd@penx.com Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:40:58 -0000 On Wed, 2014-07-23 at 17:29 -0400, Janos Dohanics wrote: > Hello List, > > I have a directory which contains 48 files. 35 of these files are > large, close to 2 GB (reported by ls -l). 7 of the files a smaller than > 4 K, the rest of the files are few dozen Ks in size. > > This is a FreeBSD 10 system with ZFS and RAIDZ2. > > du -h reports the directory to be 208G. > > du -A -h reports the directory to be 69G. > > It seems there is 2G wasted for each 1G stored data - would you explain > why and what can I do make more economical use of disk space? > Compression and/or dedup enabled? From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 21:45:49 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E38FD67 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:45:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-x22e.google.com (mail-ie0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F83F2DEA for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:45:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id rp18so1546504iec.33 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=/Mxa49LRpVV4PYUyH9xsr2AZYITkejWKtoHT25rA690=; b=neLQXecwHDuo2VAknHR2snHy4476gB/Y2OBSk3ZZR/t34jRwDXSMDLXmfEdTSpMC8V atourfGmMEDtbP7/1XByd7K8OPOS/Kh2cKxIrpbkxO9detVqsxUEZ5hsodIVVCufWjru WA6kzTTBh4wfYFdenbdZeBncSSEJbmoZuUrbKzM8+FNvr75MJonrIY6xC+fWd0W6Uq2y J68D9hHsWRsbiDmyuEDPiZYFvHOgrOrnGQlGv8B6VtLQinS8Nxb4g53DzSU09lJDQH4U UC15yphIsLyl+dZCfI8IksnE/BTBz+GtBm79UhReYSylpNrL8jt02diq5GbDFOarz9+E AZSw== X-Received: by 10.50.221.104 with SMTP id qd8mr31917569igc.35.1406151948697; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:45:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.23.72 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:45:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Romain Loutrel Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:45:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/fr_FR.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/install-pre.html To: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:45:49 -0000 This web page has probably been gehacked or is badly generated. The 2 links of the following paragraph does not work and the first time I clicked on the link, I came on a commercial page selling trading lessons. Here: Les informations sur chaque version, y compris les errata, peuvent =EAtre trouv=E9 dans la section d'information sur les diff=E9rentes versions situ=E9e sur le site web d= e FreeBSD . --- - Passer au cloud avec 5 giga de stockage gratuit (compl=E8tement int=E9gr= =E9 et transparent =E0 votre environnement): - Use transparent cloud computing with 5 giga of free backup storage on: https://one.ubuntu.com/referrals/referee/2122095/ _________________ |Romain LOUTREL | |Mobile: 00 33 (0) 660 160 073 |_________________ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 21:56:20 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DC586D4 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:56:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtpb.telissant.net (smtpb.telissant.net [199.233.230.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6065F2EE8 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:56:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from barrida.3dresearch.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpb.telissant.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BBCE27398 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:56:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at telissant.net Received: from smtpb.telissant.net ([127.0.0.1]) by barrida.3dresearch.com (barrida.3dresearch.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TWHNZ657pCDT for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doncurzio.3dresearch.com (pool-108-3-92-199.pitbpa.east.verizon.net [108.3.92.199]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtpb.telissant.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8FD882731F for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:55:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doncurzio.3dresearch.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by doncurzio.3dresearch.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E7CD3A1E2C for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:55:53 -0400 From: Janos Dohanics To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Disk space economy Message-Id: <20140723175553.6d9ce905ae7f8329099fda15@3dresearch.com> In-Reply-To: <1406151644.20477.37.camel@btw.pki2.com> References: <20140723172954.e86883fcc8f54ee7ccbe32fd@3dresearch.com> <1406151644.20477.37.camel@btw.pki2.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.24.19; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:56:20 -0000 On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:40:44 -0700 Dennis Glatting wrote: > On Wed, 2014-07-23 at 17:29 -0400, Janos Dohanics wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > I have a directory which contains 48 files. 35 of these files are > > large, close to 2 GB (reported by ls -l). 7 of the files a smaller > > than 4 K, the rest of the files are few dozen Ks in size. > > > > This is a FreeBSD 10 system with ZFS and RAIDZ2. > > > > du -h reports the directory to be 208G. > > > > du -A -h reports the directory to be 69G. > > > > It seems there is 2G wasted for each 1G stored data - would you > > explain why and what can I do make more economical use of disk > > space? > > > > Compression and/or dedup enabled? The answer is no and no: # zfs get all data NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE data type filesystem - data creation Sat Jul 5 16:06 2014 - data used 237G - data available 4.57T - data referenced 237G - data compressratio 1.00x - data mounted yes - data quota none default data reservation none default data recordsize 128K default data mountpoint /data default data sharenfs off default data checksum on default data compression off default data atime on default data devices on default data exec on default data setuid on default data readonly off default data jailed off default data snapdir hidden default data aclmode discard default data aclinherit restricted default data canmount on default data xattr off temporary data copies 3 local data version 5 - data utf8only off - data normalization none - data casesensitivity sensitive - data vscan off default data nbmand off default data sharesmb off default data refquota none default data refreservation none default data primarycache all default data secondarycache all default data usedbysnapshots 0 - data usedbydataset 237G - data usedbychildren 1.48M - data usedbyrefreservation 0 - data logbias latency default data dedup off default data mlslabel - data sync standard default data refcompressratio 1.00x - data written 237G - data logicalused 79.1G - data logicalreferenced 79.1G - data volmode default default data filesystem_limit none default data snapshot_limit none default data filesystem_count none default data snapshot_count none default -- Janos Dohanics From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 23:29:18 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E4E0369 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:29:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x235.google.com (mail-we0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 004FD26DC for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:29:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f181.google.com with SMTP id k48so1951429wev.40 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:29:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ukh7RJuZtPBEtduFX5GWg5Er7hcANpTBCyKcVX4LBDs=; b=02tSjPy62XZ4BrljhGk8bk+tuU6t/MOzvRCzA1PGpVTCSIXT8u8Pa5ayCYrr3BkkcD qGcAjaDhCr2aanL6a658dHtzeoqYpUvowtk7ehz64UMaJKKV75OmOvJovWvfK4l0ADpW cbVfeEadKoraIa0jlsTzQYAdIfdDMewUs1xGwycun7keBzzNJV1piaH9haSVuwl65xZb 6TVpaqTXOEA65pKKjnEbfGb7hwKVztxHjzomTc2JoVGbJC56tght2QJftYODiT/EzPna W0FHPQ0SQ2llUCVuWGuiUlnCWBw1PCPwnSXtM3WeURUiy9arjVZRDzLMFYgpVghtbBMU T37g== X-Received: by 10.180.81.103 with SMTP id z7mr28937619wix.23.1406158156365; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id go4sm10340144wjc.39.2014.07.23.16.29.14 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:29:12 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: <20140724002912.5eda1757@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:29:18 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:04:12 -0400 Daniel Staal wrote: > --As of July 22, 2014 10:27:22 PM +0100, RW is alleged to have said: > > I'm specifically talking about the case where a desktop PC is > > converted from JBOD to ZFS without any redundancy. > > Ok, so not a single disk case, and a case *anyone* would recommend > you against. In fact, it's a case that every ZFS guide I've seen > leaves out because it's an idiotic idea to use ZFS that way. Which is why I've found it odd that people have bothered to comment on my original statement that I'm not going to do that because it would be a bad idea. My original question started: " On a desktop, without raid, I would expect ZFS to make things a lot worse in the case of a disk failure because it would spread the damage around all the directories. For that reason I'm putting my desktop user data on ufs/gjournal, but I was wondering about putting the OS on ZFS. ... " From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 23 23:33:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EF90688 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:33:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x22c.google.com (mail-we0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4B7E2783 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:33:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f172.google.com with SMTP id x48so1937099wes.3 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:33:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XMAV5cuPu7kQah5f7c6HjelU9sCEnWJ6anUy3w637ds=; b=CuA3fZcRMWOY87KNwv4X318SdzSxlMKwuA8tXAVkPe8nfjKz34NoypoknAe2g7lI5u SJdPnTiuhKA9H3K/0Mh46ciPpA0JYPbqYFyKnUWIeXbCgSVNaLurGs4ouF/TDb/9RSS8 9OJIeb6F7HEI/LrrJ1sWqv6HpztDguIk7ntUiECQ7ZeohfMSsJz3p+LrH23NpR6UnhTq QeATWbPoxvrTMUgDBlop78xpXIBCA4KKjHQCAQcQ1m960lywFIMOqTBzy285WAIU6Fky /qIriWU002bsaeSfsh0I61XKIbCEnkGqJRMg6W4/Ls18JmbenTSMwU23LJxNfS8AjLMj EYOw== X-Received: by 10.180.221.108 with SMTP id qd12mr7332128wic.83.1406158381036; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fs17sm10393265wjc.6.2014.07.23.16.32.59 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:32:58 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: <20140724003258.1bd0768f@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <483CBF75-1553-4A0D-916B-1B3F1B9B7CBA@kraus-haus.org> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <483CBF75-1553-4A0D-916B-1B3F1B9B7CBA@kraus-haus.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 23:33:03 -0000 On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 22:53:28 -0400 Paul Kraus wrote: > > What I really do not understand You're confused because you didn't read the rest of the thread. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 00:40:17 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78E3DB84 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:40:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.magehandbook.com (173-8-4-45-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.4.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483052CEE for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:40:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (Mac-Pro.magehandbook.com [192.168.1.50]) by mail.magehandbook.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJZSn6wmRzWd for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:40:09 -0400 From: Daniel Staal To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: <98DFE7A36ED2EBA26E6C710C@[192.168.1.50]> In-Reply-To: <20140724002912.5eda1757@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140724002912.5eda1757@gumby.homeunix.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:40:17 -0000 --As of July 24, 2014 12:29:12 AM +0100, RW is alleged to have said: > Which is why I've found it odd that people have bothered to comment on > my original statement that I'm not going to do that because it would be > a bad idea. > > > My original question started: > > " On a desktop, without raid, I would expect ZFS to make things a lot > worse in the case of a disk failure because it would spread the > damage around all the directories. > > For that reason I'm putting my desktop user data on ufs/gjournal, but > I was wondering about putting the OS on ZFS. ... " --As for the rest, it is mine. Which people (including me) immediately assumed meant 'desktop with one disk' (because there's no good reason to *not* use RAID or mirroring with ZFS if you have more than one disk), and couldn't understand what you were trying to say. ;) Especially since usually `/home` is usually it's own partition, or at the very least `/home/$user` is, so your user data would all get lost with one partition/disk being lost anyway. So how keeping that one partition as UFS makes it so that you'd only lose part of it is extremely unclear. If you have multiple disks, ZFS with raid/mirroring is nearly *always* a better choice than UFS, in my opinion. Exceptions would be things like dedicated database servers and such, where you have applications basically constructing their own file systems on top of the OS's file system. Daniel T. Staal --------------------------------------------------------------- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 01:48:17 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D04B7762 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:48:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nk11p04mm-asmtp001.mac.com (nk11p04mm-asmtp001.mac.com [17.158.236.236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.me.com", Issuer "VeriSign Class 3 Extended Validation SSL SGC CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD325222C for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:48:17 +0000 (UTC) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Received: from [10.177.118.18] (mobile-166-147-083-027.mycingular.net [166.147.83.27]) by nk11p04mm-asmtp001.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-27.10(7.0.4.27.9) 64bit (built Jun 6 2014)) with ESMTPSA id <0N9600JZJY7SXF40@nk11p04mm-asmtp001.mac.com> for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:47:53 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.12.52,1.0.14,0.0.0000 definitions=2014-07-23_07:2014-07-23,2014-07-23,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1407240009 From: "Peter A. Giessel" Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-id: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:47:52 -0800 References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140724002912.5eda1757@gumby.homeunix.com> <98DFE7A36ED2EBA26E6C710C@[192.168.1.50]> In-reply-to: <98DFE7A36ED2EBA26E6C710C@[192.168.1.50]> To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D257) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:48:17 -0000 > On Jul 23, 2014, at 16:40, Daniel Staal wrote: > > If you have multiple disks, ZFS with raid/mirroring is nearly *always* a better choice than UFS, in my opinion. Exceptions would be things like dedicated database servers and such, where you have applications basically constructing their own file systems on top of the OS's file system. "Always"... Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is if you are still using i386 (cheap/old hardware) without lots of RAM (1-2 GB) and large disks (3/4/5TB), zfs is not going to be a good choice. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 01:49:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 905AB809 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:49:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [IPv6:2a02:c200:0:10::404:501]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55968223F for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:49:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.parts-unknown.org (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 136D912C1004; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail.parts-unknown.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F338B12C100A; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:49:43 -0700 (PDT) References: <20140722184900.917B012C017A@mail.parts-unknown.org> <53CFC784.4060403@qeng-ho.org> In-Reply-To: <53CFC784.4060403@qeng-ho.org> From: David Benfell To: Arthur Chance Subject: Re: UEFI boot on 10.0 =?utf-8?Q?STABLE=3F?= Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:49:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20140724014943.F338B12C100A@mail.parts-unknown.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 01:49:47 -0000 Arthur Chance writes: > > https://forums.freebsd.org/viewtopic.php?t=42781 This output looks much more promising than what I had found before: n4rky# gpart set -a active ada0 active set on ada0 But this is the same: n4rky# grub-install /dev/ada0 /usr/local/sbin/grub-bios-setup: warning: this GPT partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible. /usr/local/sbin/grub-bios-setup: warning: Embedding is not possible. GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists. However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and their use is discouraged.. /usr/local/sbin/grub-bios-setup: error: will not proceed with blocklists. And: n4rky# gpart show => 34 976773101 ada0 GPT (466G) 34 6 - free - (3.0K) 40 67108864 1 efi (32G) 67108904 128 2 freebsd-boot (64K) 67109032 16777216 3 freebsd-swap (8.0G) 83886248 892886886 4 freebsd-ufs (426G) 976773134 1 - free - (512B) I've assumed there is some incantation to get grub to do the right thing. But I'm mystified. Thanks! -- David Benfell See https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 if you do not understand the attachment. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 02:09:10 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91D83A1F for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:09:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.magehandbook.com (173-8-4-45-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.8.4.45]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6099E23D2 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:09:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.50] (Mac-Pro.magehandbook.com [192.168.1.50]) by mail.magehandbook.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3hJcRS4MBGzX0 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:09:08 -0400 From: Daniel Staal To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140724002912.5eda1757@gumby.homeunix.com> <98DFE7A36ED2EBA26E6C710C@[192.168.1.50]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:09:10 -0000 --As of July 23, 2014 4:47:52 PM -0800, Peter A. Giessel is alleged to have said: >> On Jul 23, 2014, at 16:40, Daniel Staal wrote: >> >> If you have multiple disks, ZFS with raid/mirroring is nearly *always* a >> better choice than UFS, in my opinion. Exceptions would be things like >> dedicated database servers and such, where you have applications >> basically constructing their own file systems on top of the OS's file >> system. > > "Always"... Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is if you are > still using i386 (cheap/old hardware) without lots of RAM (1-2 GB) and > large disks (3/4/5TB), zfs is not going to be a good choice. --As for the rest, it is mine. Nah, you're not wrong. There are reasons not to use it; but in most cases I still think it's a good idea. Daniel T. Staal --------------------------------------------------------------- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 02:19:52 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C4A9B2A for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:19:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (mwlucas-2-pt.tunnel.tserv9.chi1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f10:b9c::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62E5C248D for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6O2JVDs025561 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:19:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org) Received: (from mwlucas@localhost) by bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org (8.14.9/8.14.7/Submit) id s6O2JVNF025560 for questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:19:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mwlucas) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:19:31 -0400 From: "Michael W. Lucas" To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: gpart resize problem Message-ID: <20140724021931.GA25549@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:19:50 -0400 (EDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:19:52 -0000 Hi, I am utterly perplexed by how gpart resize behaves, and beseech you for enlightenment. I'm running: # uname -a FreeBSD storm 11.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 11.0-CURRENT #6 r269010: Wed Jul 23 11:13:17 EDT 2014 mwlucas@storm:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 I have empty space on disk da0, right next to partition 6. # gpart show da0 => 40 1953525088 da0 GPT (932G) 40 1024 1 freebsd-boot (512K) 1064 984 - free - (492K) 2048 16777216 2 freebsd-swap (8.0G) 16779264 10485760 3 freebsd-ufs (5.0G) 27265024 10485760 4 freebsd-ufs (5.0G) 37750784 104857600 - free - (50G) 142608384 1810916744 6 freebsd-ufs (864G) I want to expand partition 6. # gpart resize -i 6 -a 4k da0 da0p6 resized # gpart show da0 => 40 1953525088 da0 GPT (932G) 40 1024 1 freebsd-boot (512K) 1064 984 - free - (492K) 2048 16777216 2 freebsd-swap (8.0G) 16779264 10485760 3 freebsd-ufs (5.0G) 27265024 10485760 4 freebsd-ufs (5.0G) 37750784 104857600 - free - (50G) 142608384 1810916744 6 freebsd-ufs (864G) That's really weird. Maybe I can't expand a partition backwards? # gpart resize -i 4 -a 4k -s 10G da0 da0p4 resized # gpart show da0 => 40 1953525088 da0 GPT (932G) 40 1024 1 freebsd-boot (512K) 1064 984 - free - (492K) 2048 16777216 2 freebsd-swap (8.0G) 16779264 10485760 3 freebsd-ufs (5.0G) 27265024 115343360 4 freebsd-ufs (55G) 142608384 1810916744 6 freebsd-ufs (864G) Wait! I said 10G, not 55G! Can I shrink this partition back down? # gpart resize -i 4 -a 4k -s 5G da0 da0p4 resized # gpart show da0 => 40 1953525088 da0 GPT (932G) 40 1024 1 freebsd-boot (512K) 1064 984 - free - (492K) 2048 16777216 2 freebsd-swap (8.0G) 16779264 10485760 3 freebsd-ufs (5.0G) 27265024 10485760 4 freebsd-ufs (5.0G) 37750784 104857600 - free - (50G) 142608384 1810916744 6 freebsd-ufs (864G) Yes, I can make it return to 5G. Trying to make da0p4 grow by only a few GB makes the partition pop up to 55GB. I can then shrink it to the desired size with a second change. Am I totally misunderstanding "gpart resize"? Thanks, ==ml -- Michael W. Lucas - mwlucas@michaelwlucas.com, Twitter @mwlauthor http://www.MichaelWLucas.com/, http://blather.MichaelWLucas.com/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 05:24:37 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A59C9E3 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:24:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com (mail-wi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A66652529 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:24:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id d1so8962370wiv.1 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:24:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=WuY5tQFh2sKTeWywp7hJOoXUe+skFs8ClHzgMlR5GEI=; b=swHAGUwvre99VsQ9BeruyDAJE4kc0uRMjH6BRSyivm/3ZGmpuR1hC6gF1xq9+/zHNW Ee69HT6FjVVwE5DQDguc0nZEqYlwTSG0iEYJa2ni8e7YwFp1t04AXbTJgYpKN8WsFMIZ zZwiG7c+7GW4O6s5zrL8Lv+MSXxF/fN2UapPVYZamAMHtESTmuglF9lD4ZKG4lIwUyFh tgGtUSwzocBLtpdO3BWIi+qofvRj8+zAJji0HBAf/hbvvTX8ytUGn1T01oJzJAYIjFiX HdhKJx9NFvljh7Pxb27/84ht735WoDAASbXK8UDtANDjvME8xES85HWZ5MK6hqqtOTex JvrA== X-Received: by 10.194.158.101 with SMTP id wt5mr8453314wjb.136.1406179474853; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:24:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: zhao6014@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.153.225 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 22:24:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140724034118.GA86589@neutralgood.org> References: <20140723162119.GA46908@neutralgood.org> <201407231333010555.00FDB5EB@smtp.24cl.home> <20140724034118.GA86589@neutralgood.org> From: Jov Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:24:14 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: I5W2Ri1jmJCArHY-MGAGuGl-_vw Message-ID: Subject: Re: run sh rc cause two cron process running To: kpneal@pobox.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 Cc: "Mike." , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:24:37 -0000 Thanks for all your advice,I will not run sh rc in the future. In the fact,most time I use the /etc/rc.d/xx stop|start to test the configure.But Sometimes I do not sure wich file I should run,or what command I should run,and I find sh rc is handy.For example: ntpdate_enable="YES" cloned_interfaces="lo1" ipv4_addrs_lo1="192.168.2.1-4/29" I can't find ntpdate in /etc/rc.d,and I am not familiar with ifconfig command. If some one run sh rc,is it possible report a warning? I find the sh rc on the web,I am sure some one else use it. Jov blog: http:amutu.com/blog 2014-07-24 11:41 GMT+08:00 : > On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 01:33:01PM -0400, Mike. wrote: > > On 7/23/2014 at 12:21 PM kpneal@pobox.com wrote: > > |If you want to test the entire boot process then you have no real choice > > |except to reboot. But I will say that in all my years I've never created > > |a problem simply by editing rc.conf that required testing with a reboot. > > | > > |I have made changes that required testing with a full reboot, but there > > was > > |more to that than changing rc.conf. > > ============= > > > > > > > > After I make changes to rc.conf, I always run > > > > sh -n rc.conf > > > > to check for syntax errors, e.g., a missing quote, which can have a less > > than positive effect upon the boot process. > > A habit I've found helpful is to, whenever I open a quote/brace/bracket, > always go ahead and add the close. Then go back and add in the middle > the desired content. > > This basically eliminates the entire class of missing closing character > errors. > -- > Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ > "14. Re-reading No. 13, I realize that it's quite possible I'm losing my > mind. I'm glad that for the most part I'm not aware it's happening." > -- from "20 things I'm thankful for": Fortune, Nov 29, 2004, page 230 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 05:37:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59F25CA9 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:37:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net (ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net [150.101.137.143]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B4B2602 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:37:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ppp118-210-36-188.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net (HELO leader.local) ([118.210.36.188]) by ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2014 15:02:36 +0930 Message-ID: <53D09A74.8060009@ShaneWare.Biz> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:02:36 +0930 From: Shane Ambler User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Janos Dohanics , FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Disk space economy References: <20140723172954.e86883fcc8f54ee7ccbe32fd@3dresearch.com> <1406151644.20477.37.camel@btw.pki2.com> <20140723175553.6d9ce905ae7f8329099fda15@3dresearch.com> In-Reply-To: <20140723175553.6d9ce905ae7f8329099fda15@3dresearch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:37:47 -0000 On 24/07/2014 07:25, Janos Dohanics wrote: > On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:40:44 -0700 > Dennis Glatting wrote: > >> On Wed, 2014-07-23 at 17:29 -0400, Janos Dohanics wrote: >>> Hello List, >>> >>> I have a directory which contains 48 files. 35 of these files are >>> large, close to 2 GB (reported by ls -l). 7 of the files a smaller >>> than 4 K, the rest of the files are few dozen Ks in size. >>> >>> This is a FreeBSD 10 system with ZFS and RAIDZ2. >>> >>> du -h reports the directory to be 208G. >>> >>> du -A -h reports the directory to be 69G. >>> >>> It seems there is 2G wasted for each 1G stored data - would you >>> explain why and what can I do make more economical use of disk >>> space? >>> >> >> Compression and/or dedup enabled? > > > The answer is no and no: > > # zfs get all data > NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE > data copies 3 local copies is the relevant setting. >From man du - The du utility displays the file system block usage for each file -A Display the apparent size instead of the disk usage With 3 copies the disk blocks used add up to 208G but with apparent size you get the size of each file totalling 69G - roughly 1/3 From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 06:42:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F303DDA for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtpb.telissant.net (smtpb.telissant.net [199.233.230.156]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310B12B07 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:42:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from barrida.3dresearch.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtpb.telissant.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE87A27335 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:42:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at telissant.net Received: from smtpb.telissant.net ([127.0.0.1]) by barrida.3dresearch.com (barrida.3dresearch.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EDS72LtifogJ for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doncurzio.3dresearch.com (pool-108-3-92-199.pitbpa.east.verizon.net [108.3.92.199]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtpb.telissant.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C26B27318 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:41:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from doncurzio.3dresearch.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by doncurzio.3dresearch.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C0E48A1E2C for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:41:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:41:33 -0400 From: Janos Dohanics To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Disk space economy Message-Id: <20140724024133.072b27205b8539ed7be7cde5@3dresearch.com> In-Reply-To: <53D09A74.8060009@ShaneWare.Biz> References: <20140723172954.e86883fcc8f54ee7ccbe32fd@3dresearch.com> <1406151644.20477.37.camel@btw.pki2.com> <20140723175553.6d9ce905ae7f8329099fda15@3dresearch.com> <53D09A74.8060009@ShaneWare.Biz> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.3.0 (GTK+ 2.24.19; amd64-portbld-freebsd9.1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:42:03 -0000 On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:02:36 +0930 Shane Ambler wrote: > On 24/07/2014 07:25, Janos Dohanics wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:40:44 -0700 > > Dennis Glatting wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 2014-07-23 at 17:29 -0400, Janos Dohanics wrote: > >>> Hello List, > >>> > >>> I have a directory which contains 48 files. 35 of these files are > >>> large, close to 2 GB (reported by ls -l). 7 of the files a smaller > >>> than 4 K, the rest of the files are few dozen Ks in size. > >>> > >>> This is a FreeBSD 10 system with ZFS and RAIDZ2. > >>> > >>> du -h reports the directory to be 208G. > >>> > >>> du -A -h reports the directory to be 69G. > >>> > >>> It seems there is 2G wasted for each 1G stored data - would you > >>> explain why and what can I do make more economical use of disk > >>> space? > >>> > >> > >> Compression and/or dedup enabled? > > > > > > The answer is no and no: > > > > # zfs get all data > > NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE > > > data copies 3 local > > copies is the relevant setting. > > From man du - > The du utility displays the file system block usage for each file > -A Display the apparent size instead of the disk usage > > With 3 copies the disk blocks used add up to 208G but with apparent > size you get the size of each file totalling 69G - roughly 1/3 Thank you... I completely missed this one. -- Janos Dohanics From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 09:25:55 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4766D352 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x22e.google.com (mail-we0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D842F297A for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f174.google.com with SMTP id x48so2452151wes.5 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:25:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=IqQDuAjx9IYwSqCJBdlrh8iywgOvK7dMgqI62zITGZI=; b=mpIwVXNqpEFFGw3eUtkiXcWO75pQO+WchpWtXd0Sy+zX1EtN7n0MIYttIotSQItlon X9nDiJWhVWGzFelCMQObeGr7NCLlll3mJf468w8Wrihn1uSkLt4ayC78oseb5szkXYgp TniHSJrhP9EtYaAa9nqC+IB1V2WbT6ANiuR+mq6R98Gll9Vq4oOuwkm1peUrnB4MPbMQ p48g6ZBA5e4WSEleis2jt3iQwfFJcYN4RzVb8eZrQiD7RxU8/KXNFTUAHf3hoC9yDilc NV6jN/Ez/NRQzdJQhF8I1SBIt85ZVDNeN/KCKSQpUC4Ko3WRnJUjtxHGShztoD6F3YEC aSMg== X-Received: by 10.194.48.8 with SMTP id h8mr10036466wjn.106.1406193952547; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:25:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.219.42 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Goran Tepshic Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:25:22 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: FreeBSD future To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:55 -0000 Could someone give some feedback on these writings? http://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/the-current-state-of-freebsd/ http://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/freebsd-jails-are-a-huge-security-danger/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 09:26:47 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF47A3EA for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0140.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 738652993 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CY1PR0301MB0843.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.163.149) by CY1PR0301MB0876.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.164.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.995.14; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:43 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94] (2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94) by CY1PR0301MB0843.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.163.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.995.14; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:42 +0000 Message-ID: <53D0D14D.2050305@my.hennepintech.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:26:37 -0500 From: Andrew Berg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Re: FreeBSD future References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94] X-ClientProxiedBy: BY2PR03CA058.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.249.31) To CY1PR0301MB0843.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.163.149) X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: X-Forefront-PRVS: 028256169F X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(6009001)(199002)(189002)(24454002)(51704005)(88552001)(50466002)(87976001)(558084003)(23676002)(92566001)(86362001)(42186005)(85852003)(64126003)(83072002)(46102001)(77096002)(59896001)(85306003)(77982001)(15202345003)(95666004)(105586002)(76482001)(106356001)(83506001)(15975445006)(80022001)(65806001)(74502001)(110136001)(65956001)(74662001)(31966008)(81542001)(83322001)(19580395003)(221733001)(64706001)(89122001)(81342001)(47776003)(20776003)(76176999)(92726001)(99396002)(4396001)(50986999)(65816999)(79102001)(102836001)(54356999)(107046002)(107886001)(75432001)(2351001)(33656002)(101416001)(21056001)(87266999)(89472002)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR0301MB0843; H:[IPv6:2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94]; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: X-OriginatorOrg: my.hennepintech.edu X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:47 -0000 On 2014.07.24 04:25, Goran Tepshic wrote: > Could someone give some feedback on these writings? > > http://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/the-current-state-of-freebsd/ > http://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/freebsd-jails-are-a-huge-security-danger/ Well-known troll blog. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 11:11:03 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30F51C5E for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:11:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x232.google.com (mail-qg0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D545523BC for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id q108so3011168qgd.23 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:11:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:reply-to:organization:mime-version :content-type; bh=BNMrVPhIHKboGfahSTzUXbHod3rHo0oQnlsYHrlLY9w=; b=otHUhjXAi/0NeWVCSE7kNDnRpz3eGL4hSJWXpxqdB/lLb7nfjGia/iSteGxM+euZNB 5phV3I64pAZUICZmYQEF2VIQsn2N7BAPIQnpACLYAzCjQvHKlFhWGleR+oyOeU3W5Bel F7a5n35DISPOV87buJWB98WXvMA2dsDBwjvLY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:reply-to :organization:mime-version:content-type; bh=BNMrVPhIHKboGfahSTzUXbHod3rHo0oQnlsYHrlLY9w=; b=OjCegmV6DYBvBlPKB8taofANOT+ybcBPvP4uzm95tIpxOyAEdmyHqVmzWwZhRH/bZb WBdUnoHXVtRbRT03PRuexr0C6OJJDEyNiUD3EPERp0VZhRMcg8LZHkx6weKTT6ZxQ2e/ wITezGNooMTrSY2eg8QegfvDCx755b3tCom2r6EtObXX6GPLd00/fK4pvYZjXCarnGH/ hNvnI35RDuUFVPb0vjXNUX2Ee6XPUOp/DQksqRJcTazop6N7Nb0WBha5/WtyjtqOK9kc B/g+W4+TRN2zW584CXxgj+IhU3G8kxbwrOjy/sdlCB+nDqjmGqdjWgGogjvppNlbNaoC ZgpA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn9nN6KSNDRakFjpVpUwfZghM4gfBoukaMgzuvc+PS/RpAKNj8h5liwDB4yYj7vL/RcdHot X-Received: by 10.140.109.118 with SMTP id k109mr13347636qgf.98.1406200261744; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s2sm8418220qah.13.2014.07.24.04.11.01 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com [76.182.104.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3hJrSh3QRlz3DlVs for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:11:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.4 at scorpio.seibercom.net Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:10:45 -0400 From: Jerry To: User questions Subject: New enhanced 802.11ac standard Message-ID: <20140724071045.6fdc7de6@scorpio> Reply-To: User questions Organization: seibercom NET X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Sig_/JBwm/LCN+lwlZBFkN3kcijg"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:11:03 -0000 --Sig_/JBwm/LCN+lwlZBFkN3kcijg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:06:20 -0400 Does FreeBSD support the new enhanced 802.11ac standard & , or will this be like the "n" standard where we had to wait for years before it was usable on FreeBSD? --=20 Jerry --Sig_/JBwm/LCN+lwlZBFkN3kcijg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJT0OnDAAoJEElTsHIJnX8exlUH/1K/guMNURFla+O+htyVuoys X+KWBDHo1gCN2fACwdsuFagZ4IMJQ6WBN6DlYRnPhFNUIImVat1B/4WHJGl7CZnX 11bYOtzao5AmrF3lLTdeR6vQ6xnxscw3FOAnsjWqcBUESR7kzKIwN8V0LUSfQmFP QSPfsGANghBI32Q6Gt1kGiyzivnWYgyOLVLmhZxJ3EO1IMDlFw8fvWpVs4Px/h1v fnYJ9ICHir0+O3kya/Wt6GfRsOIERRJqJYYtWB8X4mt2aBihZoX9y/pRdzCjYiPj ioEF41yEoWapROVJBI7jn9ciJyn/JQ9Y/pMO3e7kmXzffRYSwzsC9xbMzi2kaTM= =0Kv+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/JBwm/LCN+lwlZBFkN3kcijg-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 11:11:34 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98AE4D21 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:11:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (mail-la0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F1D923DA for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:11:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id pv20so1807763lab.29 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:11:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CrYryLtHvWZn3JHgP+3BlzpjBR25+ZEswEfen13pHao=; b=AY1Hg4Eq32R9oG8sgC0+1GApsY4FLw4OqXTV+8IuM0eCjQ00hSMKCcN/nUjlqTOfKT 5G24XHkaj93QMVGQfDL2xBfofHee/sL/E1WktoanWUfiD9n3GIF6FkoGT/5nNjovnjHO jUUjECggLIlHvQhKs6ndNhCSyw+PFnXeaWSzI9oQM8yHckq4Pjw50TMZty03kyoo3VIm 4eEMDBJgNivo5v+o6FHt+TCMpcg+CkxJszfUcJeWtBjfwb9kU89OZ9Jnb1jSrIgrxKaS 6JJrMKWbYB1TXr1UWSX7ML7XHZYq+GWmMwzxKlb7qyOGs3XVFLq5gPZxJXOdZ6wfSetF WQ7w== X-Received: by 10.112.73.164 with SMTP id m4mr8045464lbv.3.1406200291786; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lazlar.no-ip.biz (109.58.146.171.bredband.tre.se. [109.58.146.171]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p4sm4137102lap.0.2014.07.24.04.11.31 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53D0E9E2.50708@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:11:30 +0200 From: Rolf Nielsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD future References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:11:34 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-07-24 11:25, Goran Tepshic wrote: > Could someone give some feedback on these writings? > > http://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/the-current-state-of-freebsd/ > > http://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/freebsd-jails-are-a-huge-security-danger/ > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To > unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > That guy is just a troll and a libeller. An infamous one even. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJT0OnhAAoJEB1OKfQ0M8TgFDIQAOnGbMEcn8tO7GOGk/8uy7Iz XLapobRb49YaTX8KRxnWgyaJqog7bj9aeahH73e9bBXcMS3XsXua/EsyLbHk0gyY Z7+mWeyXDQfSfXT59rDRpGnwv6dVd1uMAMxQdiHJapzl+v5GzC4ezwem6pO7907Y 4IxJLLUbf95afMfbS410A8v69PSa8QgU0JKhJHSMpc8bUEyolNfgt8aLUJLFeRdN Q0gzSJMMu5pJYWKOSxSQSjFbvf72c2L2LcOKynB9t8BUsA6s4iDN8gclXCFwZwPI +5UXl0LjoXxdR35/wxUW/mFQYuZdAou49aOUaJdSqkQrcMRzG6OLqA4IXoz8kFQB tv5UFIvD3MGv15ttHjq0gKMN8Svngi5OQ+Lg/wCwaQRZ0HLctsW/Q56dzpkgBARp xiKkbKQ6SRvHTvjY55pAHH5kEhfsMs9L1tVKr9LbZjL4OR263GURhGFmPLzp4awx c7tm2Dq078J/7dkId9M38lPqW2nKL2CyTvEMMADPvS6OBA+H8UoTgjg7GKJYPf97 HdNunIQVQdorRdw4VaeN9o0KtaLQE21SiDfTMpgX24el0/o49HIIVU6NyMzj1OPb TDpPEj3GK3d/HwnWFmjHXWRuOot7K9nE4zH1ngqq4pftdYJHwXamq4yw8wEH8O3w ZGFztICAgqUPZAGsnZND =fL6p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 12:36:04 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13D8A813 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:36:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-vc0-x232.google.com (mail-vc0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF64F2B64 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:36:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-vc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id la4so4768577vcb.9 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:36:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsd.com.br; s=capeta; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=acocERr50MKxRRwdjg2RScRbsUHXK8FMpIYfKdaIJ7A=; b=AteconmloG0z1BwIsIaVh685sC7PQJWIaYIYD0VENFeBRHZzhs8XofjnABTLlawf0F Fq9WIRkzTylV/iE8QGJV2M5qK3jb8mjxKdI6Vn5S33ISKJ2/i5PDwEzarntkjUeS7ShA +kfXxEf1teeM17lm2sJhv/aUP/R7cQISOiT70= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=acocERr50MKxRRwdjg2RScRbsUHXK8FMpIYfKdaIJ7A=; b=Q08jBAo2F5qMcqXzYNqSSFM2ElrFpZ8XqAQn50nfN59KIzp+OrcHo72YvOwXuJ5Ap3 Kcf8w717Kc016pHfmSJ81vDclnutDHQgF2Xn+O07Et/R8WeSBo5tI7dhFJOx1nndLzty TZse9jEAv+O1dSuCL44xQOPtbk3hbobcRmzekwUFxYkNrA+/Uy0MG+wosRvPJI7qsbTA dgCUVaGD1NbqkImzhXYEg8D3fbITRBOZjX3nyPh7OM5P8W0wOA5bZNweHLtMr+ONfuvH 407QQ2lR8WeuUmVo5LbvKl+fnouunxsVHr5KGDgjOKWp3Yv6me8hfSLbwva0flIZqbun uzAg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn7mKRWFwUOcnyC89pRfdqfCxdQ1MfuaH4gkdV83z2u5+utqNw0afAcIOKVP32u0kw/4yHB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.53.135 with SMTP id b7mr9676138vdp.67.1406205362478; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.185.162 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:36:02 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Openvpn problem From: Mario Lobo To: freebsd-questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:36:04 -0000 Hi there. I have the following scenario: LANa <--> FBSD-GW/FW <--> INTERNET <--> OPENVPN SRV <--> LANb Using an openvpn client on either any LAN WS or on FBSD-GW works fine. My idea is to start the openvpn client on FBSD-GW and use the created tun0 as a gateway for LANa to LANb. Log from FBSD-GW's openvpn: Thu Jul 24 08:37:47 2014 TUN/TAP device /dev/tun0 opened Thu Jul 24 08:37:47 2014 do_ifconfig, tt->ipv6=0, tt->did_ifconfig_ipv6_setup=0 Thu Jul 24 08:37:47 2014 /sbin/ifconfig tun0 172.10.5.229 172.10.5.230 mtu 1500 netmask 255.255.255.255 up Thu Jul 24 08:37:49 2014 /sbin/route add -net 10.10.0.0 172.10.5.230 255.255.252.0 add net 10.10.0.0: gateway 172.10.5.230 Thu Jul 24 08:37:49 2014 /sbin/route add -net 172.10.2.44 172.10.5.230 255.255.255.255 add net 172.10.2.44: gateway 172.10.5.230 Thu Jul 24 08:37:49 2014 /sbin/route add -net 172.10.5.1 172.10.5.230 255.255.255.255 add net 172.10.5.1: gateway 172.10.5.230 Thu Jul 24 08:37:49 2014 /sbin/route add -net 172.10.3.0 172.10.5.230 255.255.255.240 add net 172.10.3.0: gateway 172.10.5.230 Thu Jul 24 08:37:49 2014 /sbin/route add -net 172.10.2.0 172.10.5.230 255.255.255.192 add net 172.10.2.0: gateway 172.10.5.230 Thu Jul 24 08:37:49 2014 /sbin/route add -net 172.10.1.0 172.10.5.230 255.255.255.240 add net 172.10.1.0: gateway 172.10.5.230 Thu Jul 24 08:37:49 2014 Initialization Sequence Completed tun0: flags=8051 metric 0 mtu 1500 options=80000 inet 172.10.5.229 --> 172.10.5.230 netmask 0xffffffff Opened by PID 51795 Routing tables (what is relevant) Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 187.23.102.129 UGS 0 23469757 sk0 10.10.0.0/22 172.10.5.230 UGS 0 0 tun0 10.10.1.0/24 link#6 U 0 5158857 re1 10.10.1.254 link#6 UHS 0 0 lo0 172.10.1.0/28 172.10.5.230 UGS 0 11 tun0 172.10.2.0/26 172.10.5.230 UGS 0 29 tun0 172.10.2.44/32 172.10.5.230 UGS 0 0 tun0 172.10.3.0/28 172.10.5.230 UGS 0 0 tun0 172.10.5.1/32 172.10.5.230 UGS 0 0 tun0 172.10.5.229 link#11 UHS 0 0 lo0 172.10.5.230 link#11 UH 0 0 tun0 172.16.3.0/24 link#2 U 0 42161366 re0 172.16.3.1 link#2 UHS 0 0 lo0 fib 1 192.168.0.0/24 link#5 U 0 1 sk1 192.168.0.20 link#5 UHS 0 0 lo0 fib 0 187.23.102.128/29 link#4 U 0 0 sk0 187.23.102.130 link#4 UHS 0 3621 lo0 OBS - The FBSD-GW has two fibs and the openbsd client is running on fib0, which is the default fib, and why the pass rule has no route-to. It also has 2 LANs. Ping from FBSD-GW to a LANb server: [~]>ping 172.10.2.28 PING 172.10.2.28 (172.10.2.28): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 172.10.2.28: icmp_seq=0 ttl=127 time=201.900 ms 64 bytes from 172.10.2.28: icmp_seq=1 ttl=127 time=499.521 ms 64 bytes from 172.10.2.28: icmp_seq=2 ttl=127 time=259.940 ms Connection from FBSD-GW to a LANb server: [~]>telnet 172.10.1.7 3389 Trying 172.10.1.7... Connected to adsl-172-10-1-7.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net. Escape character is '^]'. To accomplish that, I added the following to pf.conf: nat on tun0 from ! (tun0) to any -> (tun0) port 1024:65535 pass log quick on tun0 all OBS -- This pass rule is rule number 0 !! Now this is a ping from a LANa WS to 2 LANb servers: [~]>ping 172.10.1.7 PING 172.10.1.7 (172.10.1.7): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 172.10.1.7: icmp_seq=0 ttl=126 time=138.295 ms 64 bytes from 172.10.1.7: icmp_seq=1 ttl=126 time=108.962 ms 64 bytes from 172.10.1.7: icmp_seq=2 ttl=126 time=284.854 ms PING 172.10.2.28 (172.10.2.28): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 172.10.2.28: icmp_seq=0 ttl=126 time=280.377 ms 64 bytes from 172.10.2.28: icmp_seq=1 ttl=126 time=207.054 ms 64 bytes from 172.10.2.28: icmp_seq=2 ttl=126 time=397.242 ms And a tcpdump from FBSD-GW: [~]>tcpdump -i tun0 -n tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode listening on tun0, link-type NULL (BSD loopback), capture size 96 bytes 08:48:09.470985 IP 172.10.5.229 > 172.10.1.7: ICMP echo request, id 56407, seq 0, length 64 08:48:09.609126 IP 172.10.1.7 > 172.10.5.229: ICMP echo reply, id 56407, seq 0, length 64 08:48:10.484599 IP 172.10.5.229 > 172.10.1.7: ICMP echo request, id 56407, seq 1, length 64 08:48:10.593410 IP 172.10.1.7 > 172.10.5.229: ICMP echo reply, id 56407, seq 1, length 64 08:48:11.486604 IP 172.10.5.229 > 172.10.1.7: ICMP echo request, id 56407, seq 2, length 64 08:48:11.771323 IP 172.10.1.7 > 172.10.5.229: ICMP echo reply, id 56407, seq 2, length 64 08:50:36.861807 IP 172.10.5.229 > 172.10.2.28: ICMP echo request, id 52398, seq 0, length 64 08:50:37.142004 IP 172.10.2.28 > 172.10.5.229: ICMP echo reply, id 52398, seq 0, length 64 08:50:37.880531 IP 172.10.5.229 > 172.10.2.28: ICMP echo request, id 52398, seq 1, length 64 08:50:38.087434 IP 172.10.2.28 > 172.10.5.229: ICMP echo reply, id 52398, seq 1, length 64 08:50:38.882218 IP 172.10.5.229 > 172.10.2.28: ICMP echo request, id 52398, seq 2, length 64 08:50:39.279326 IP 172.10.2.28 > 172.10.5.229: ICMP echo reply, id 52398, seq 2, length 64 As you can see, nat is working properly and the packet finds its way back to LANa WS. Now, THE PROBLEM: Ping is the only thing that works! Any other type of connection doesn't even hit FBSD-GW tun0 !! Connection attempt on a LANa WS (172.16.3.40) to LANb server: [~]>telnet 172.10.1.7 3389 Trying 172.10.1.7... Dump on FBSD-GW LANa iface: [~]>tcpdump -i re0 -n host 172.16.3.40 and port 3389 tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode listening on re0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 96 bytes 08:58:13.945180 IP 172.16.3.40.11942 > 172.10.1.7.3389: Flags [S], seq 2976879078, win 65535, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 6,sackOK,TS val 3358365 ecr 0], length 0 08:58:16.952340 IP 172.16.3.40.11942 > 172.10.1.7.3389: Flags [S], seq 2976879078, win 65535, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 6,sackOK,TS val 3361373 ecr 0], length 0 08:58:20.155346 IP 172.16.3.40.11942 > 172.10.1.7.3389: Flags [S], seq 2976879078, win 65535, options [mss 1460,nop,wscale 6,sackOK,TS val 3364576 ecr 0], length 0 Dump on FBSD-GW tun0 iface: [~]>tcpdump -i tun0 -n tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode listening on tun0, link-type NULL (BSD loopback), capture size 96 bytes DEAD Silence !! I can't understand why a ping packet can find its way back to the LANa WS but no other (tcp/udp) can't !! I've been (re)searching for 3 days without success. I've tried every combination I could think of nat and reply-to/route-to forms. but none other than the following keeps ping working (at least). nat on tun0 from ! (tun0) to any -> (tun0) pass log quick on tun0 all I don't have the knowledge to solve this any further. Could anyone shed a light on this? Thanks, -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since version 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!] (99,7% winfoes FREE) From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 13:52:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A06C3C98 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:52:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yk0-x22e.google.com (mail-yk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 640A82252 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:52:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yk0-f174.google.com with SMTP id q9so1785889ykb.33 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:52:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CUw9IdG8jZy37HPySSYC5R1DLgBAO3QZ9Qqs94rs3MA=; b=bn6tUHbqnnYO1wf+2+WkKIQuQuLS1cqob0JwlR2YbNJ/2vNIiCV0oUOnoriyI27Tel WrUZ25e6LDGE7KAXfb6qxUVR+abc/cu3D+mD0fHBmvPUnsTY6O8ZnXhv+7PtIhVmGWxw cxx6baGBPKnaVkDmasLKTya/k1DprEr9j+Bf3ib5cBMenlv2rYMZWQKBcEN+yfT22KpJ rFGWsB7igRotkXunU6IWYQbC3+F2a0YFWSn9oDL2RIOizOx/Jl4jC61UFK5y4tTMJbDk D/14ZS9eekXZUHREnSoxYEdayr7YHBFAjOnfVfWjhgLaJ73HonWvbsfzjY/o+sdt288o /G8g== X-Received: by 10.236.70.99 with SMTP id o63mr13140904yhd.114.1406209960485; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from manutencao4.portari.intra ([187.75.176.230]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u23sm11523778yhh.30.2014.07.24.06.52.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53D10FA5.8090001@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 10:52:37 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Dante_F=2E_B=2E_Col=F2=22?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Geom Journaling on / volume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:52:41 -0000 Hello everyone, I would like to use geom journal on all volumes, is there is anyway to use it on / volume too ? Regards Dante F. B. Col From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 16:41:00 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BA7FDD7 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:41:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-we0-x236.google.com (mail-we0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE41D2369 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:40:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-we0-f182.google.com with SMTP id k48so2995750wev.13 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:40:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=M5+pRZ5/DHw2YwXPqiYzDSwwNxNE70PMSXlyX0ABfWA=; b=iFKXLi7thQbGdZejkDQ/vWIm/RilRA1dl4OOt1erSvv+kVjYREjtZOiPysBoilQSQh M2iz8A6u+jZevK41Jmk9GZMvHuFyC7iNdJI48Xt0P8CZgCozT0R4QEIX7pg4zk0eSDJA 4Ig7E6l0R423XyzMaBDAVX9Imo/lUimceicqGEBDX91uNzkiODrLfNxKrJqRAdsnMHQ8 CcooJjaIgOVzR9Le2lX7pFSHnwb4T5TQhtzSOPrTTViON8zrlhAgEuNGS3Q4Mq4IZxPZ k1pFFlMr4eoBauIkU7VtKKHgDgIAJtMl1GlF1gRByIv7HyNfIgdbkn1tF3zfotzfqUoK bYyQ== X-Received: by 10.180.21.141 with SMTP id v13mr27057500wie.48.1406220057608; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id di7sm17228588wjb.34.2014.07.24.09.40.55 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:40:54 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: deciding UFS vs ZFS Message-ID: <20140724174054.197aa468@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <98DFE7A36ED2EBA26E6C710C@[192.168.1.50]> References: <20140713190308.GA9678@bewilderbeast.blackhelicopters.org> <20140714071443.42f615c5@X220.alogt.com> <53C326EE.1030405@my.hennepintech.edu> <20140714111221.5d4aaea9@X220.alogt.com> <20140715143821.23638db5@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140716143929.74209529@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140718180416.715cdc0b@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140722133305.228a1690@gumby.homeunix.com> <8699AF5D2BE8E9EBCFFEEE17@[192.168.1.50]> <20140722222722.70f13ec9@gumby.homeunix.com> <20140724002912.5eda1757@gumby.homeunix.com> <98DFE7A36ED2EBA26E6C710C@[192.168.1.50]> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:41:00 -0000 On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:40:09 -0400 Daniel Staal wrote: > --As of July 24, 2014 12:29:12 AM +0100, RW is alleged to have said: > > > Which is why I've found it odd that people have bothered to comment > > on my original statement that I'm not going to do that because it > > would be a bad idea. > > > > > > My original question started: > > > > " On a desktop, without raid, I would expect ZFS to make things a > > lot worse in the case of a disk failure because it would spread the > > damage around all the directories. > > > > For that reason I'm putting my desktop user data on > > ufs/gjournal, but I was wondering about putting the OS on > > ZFS. ... " > > --As for the rest, it is mine. > > Which people (including me) immediately assumed meant 'desktop with > one disk' In it's original context it was in reply to: "But moving to a second disk only makes ZFS not just attractive but basically a must." > (because there's no good reason to *not* use RAID or > mirroring with ZFS if you have more than one disk), There's no good reason if you have a small amount of data or don't care about the cost. I have 7 TB so with either raid or mirroring I'd looking at 5X3TB of extra drives. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 24 21:21:31 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 767824FA for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x22a.google.com (mail-qg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A7012985 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id j5so4080625qga.1 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:21:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=AUwGd79UQVlDqHPfGcs5E5ammI3es3Vl1UnPFP9Y36s=; b=yJbhIidZ+Mc941Y/CZbpgCOoB0cqFPjLuH7qI4BgQ99Gsa9y2HEAIr3jxHhjbrBkHP vdfxWwEoncGry0mPEM1xTzWSR0sjenm3e6+KMoPAwnIr6Z3Ea+h2k2rCTmmP5MsT7jqr wTEq3MsD1SBy+CF3Tcf6DiXPCagYggzojgNV9+Vqta5gIHOwuHg4pO4bOaaaxzSlyDoF iLTFyMbsMcgwtjqnNAmgSWt/Jij8E625oycEyD3soFEqB2Czvqcc3JmaHwGMAcSDsCSu PTMHJ9LJx0SdOz+gC41JrbBP4FFfi4+2QAtaRTQ3aGjyXwV3Kc8f9IF34JJirDeCpzxM ektw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.41.133 with SMTP id z5mr18693453qgz.99.1406236875809; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:21:15 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.1.6 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:21:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140724071045.6fdc7de6@scorpio> References: <20140724071045.6fdc7de6@scorpio> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:21:15 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: TFU_o_OAkAq0_iMr6uiQ216pvfs Message-ID: Subject: Re: New enhanced 802.11ac standard From: Adrian Chadd To: User questions , Jerry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:21:31 -0000 Hi! I'd love to implement 802.11ac but unfortunately FreeBSD wireless isn't my day job. :( So, unless someone else steps up to fund it or code it, it likely won't happen. -a On 24 July 2014 04:10, Jerry wrote: > Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:06:20 -0400 > > Does FreeBSD support the new enhanced 802.11ac standard > & > , or will this be like the "n" > standard where we had to wait for years before it was usable on FreeBSD? > > -- > Jerry From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 02:23:58 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A941BAC4 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 02:23:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B46823DE for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 02:23:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop3.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop3.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.185]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 757642738F for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:23:49 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <53D1BFB5.60804@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:23:49 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> <20140718110645.GN87212@FreeBSD.org> <20140718151255.b3e677d9.gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> In-Reply-To: <53CA2D39.6000204@sasktel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 02:23:58 -0000 On 07/19/14 18:32, Stephen Hurd wrote: > krad wrote: >> that is true and I have not problem using man pages, however thats not the >> way most of the world work and search engines arent exactly new either. We >> should be trying to engage more people not less, and part of that is >> reaching out. > One of FreeBSD's historic strengths has been the handbook and generally > good quality documentation. There is no way that the FreeBSD project > can ensure that all Google results for everyone in the world are FreeBSD > related "good" documentation, but it can ensure that the documentation > included with FreeBSD is accurate and usable, and it can ensure that the > FreeBSD documentation is available via the internet. Jumping in to this little fray... you're exactly right. But the handbook for pf says to go to openbsd for "better" info on how to setup pf, which then has instructions using a syntax that doesn't exist on FreeBSD. This is not just about google searches - although users end up going there because of the syntax issues. Just to clarify based on the OP thread. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 08:49:42 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CFE7778 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:49:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from relaygateway01.edpnet.net (relaygateway01.edpnet.net [212.71.1.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B732C2527 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:49:40 +0000 (UTC) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AncGAIjm0FNNbXBi/2dsb2JhbABZgw5SV4J4xh0KhnJTAYEKF3eEAwEBAQMBAQEBICsIGAsQCxgJEw4CAg8FEwEJCCQIBwQBHASIGQwJqCGRFYZXF456AQFPB4J4gU4FmESCbgGBUpJwg0o7LweBBQ X-IPAS-Result: AncGAIjm0FNNbXBi/2dsb2JhbABZgw5SV4J4xh0KhnJTAYEKF3eEAwEBAQMBAQEBICsIGAsQCxgJEw4CAg8FEwEJCCQIBwQBHASIGQwJqCGRFYZXF456AQFPB4J4gU4FmESCbgGBUpJwg0o7LweBBQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,723,1400018400"; d="scan'208";a="266563291" Received: from 77.109.112.98.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net (HELO mordor.lan) ([77.109.112.98]) by relaygateway01.edpnet.net with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 24 Jul 2014 15:56:23 +0200 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:24:47 +0200 From: Julien Cigar To: =?utf-8?B?IkRhbnRlIEYuIEIuIENvbMOyIg==?= Subject: Re: Geom Journaling on / volume Message-ID: <20140724142447.GT1848@mordor.lan> References: <53D10FA5.8090001@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VjP/dwTbBl6I9PQk" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <53D10FA5.8090001@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:49:42 -0000 --VjP/dwTbBl6I9PQk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 10:52:37AM -0300, "Dante F. B. Col=C3=B2" wrote: > Hello everyone, >=20 > I would like to use geom journal on all volumes, is there is anyway to=20 > use it on / volume too ? Nowadays SU+J should be used instead of gjournal >=20 > Regards > Dante F. B. Col=C3=B2 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" --=20 Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform (http://www.biodiversity.be) PGP fingerprint: EEF9 F697 4B68 D275 7B11 6A25 B2BB 3710 A204 23C0 No trees were killed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced. --VjP/dwTbBl6I9PQk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAABCgAGBQJT0RcvAAoJEAi2KiTKQR5pc4YP/jsxwC0eWUPQwXQ5Vb7XevCi 81rbUZw6mBlIz6RVsppQtbD1Vqzbnvht8QX5ibprZxeTE4lYr364KrMjM0j0CVcj T8MSS8uzqCeQBQvA2v7ZjbiMTH8cVih0V4oloaDtbaY4HyXo8QPtoGPGv7L6T3Ff MWhLgGPGXvM4tnukRY75a5IL6m2oGVTmp5hUabuxMVlQ/bWVCI7YKLp+THcyYcMH +kNuaPFxlWuRTic8DEC+YIUkZudN7kJlRG79uWA2W5wogAQA+tHP8EIgsgEf9elB gdgy3xK7J4UVWDuv6R94XSvO0L0OxCTtkmerdSOIp9uA7/SACH0GecOvhBQ2U3yV 6hylVaQ7MCdioILX6/7TVW+ioXz6yssj2SSAw4lOIHvYJv2C/NdPkaR2c4wUDz6c fK57mKVce56AsAoIZUT2vTr4ya8uh3XTDlswUBaoEXouJxoo5f1lElfGnK26ZRH7 9DYspm5XaNbA5x9YhDaI0kRwr9lMA82zCRvSvQetH8n6JPuRAuUa+VkQoXCdA6OC gE+KqO2iZ18fPpXd3XFQ67vsQcfPvSbUcEkhD6UiVJcMAGzBF+trYN2GA4p/TzYp WeBs3rEWAX0L77dlUJKET1gqxP3zZ6S86LzRXEdcH/b2o+9YMz8bHrUKa06DV+Ms nj06okNmdtXdwnp3dqXx =ksCS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VjP/dwTbBl6I9PQk-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 09:29:09 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0254472 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:29:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ex.volia.net (ex.volia.net [82.144.192.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 683EE291E for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:29:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from em.volia.net ([82.144.192.9]) by ex.volia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1XAbaO-000Ncw-Nl for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:14:44 +0300 Received: from acceptable.tryouts.volia.net ([93.72.62.0] helo=kushnir1.kiev.ua) by em.volia.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1XAbP5-000OOP-Ez for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:03:03 +0300 Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by kushnir1.kiev.ua (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6P93GK8037523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:03:16 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from vkushnir@bigmir.net) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:03:15 +0300 (EEST) From: Vladimir Kushnir X-X-Sender: vkushnir@kushnir1.kiev.ua To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: KDE4, HAL, flash drives Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Volia-Original-IP: 93.72.62.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:29:09 -0000 Hello deeply respected All! I got a (possibly) NOOBish question on the subject which, however IS annoying. Setup: amd64-CURRENT, KDE4 desktop env. with all bells & whistles (OK, sorry, I just like the "style uniformity" and DISlike the huge GNOME's decorations - my bad). Running (obviously) dbus and hald. My problem is: Any kind of memory stick/cardreader/whatever USB device at all plugged in is recognized only once. Whatever I do the second time it's invisible for the kernel. After it is unmounted/unplugged, /dev/da0 (if that's what it was recognized as) is never destroyed, usbconfig just hangs and to make a next use of any flash drive (or, to be precise, of any USB storage - and perhaps any USB in general - device at all) I have to reboot. Besides, even reboot goes unsuccessfull if "sysctl hw.usb.no_shutdown_wait" is not set. None of these not-so-pleasant things happen when I'm in pure console session with no dbus and hald running. A question is obvious: how do I configure these bl...dy HW abstraction layers (and perhaps devd, devfs.{conf,rules} or whatever I need) to make them work as they are supposed to? TIA, Vladimir From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 10:03:52 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50B4FDAC for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:03:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yk0-x234.google.com (mail-yk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 142C42CE7 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:03:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yk0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 200so2622957ykr.39 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 03:03:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type; bh=UHFXRfFGf/ayKTTew68SmxXK9xNjclSDow+8KYSZp+8=; b=KwhkCAhKSuxBSt1HirFmcuE4Iee8jNje88dTT/36dbhlgfOJxJaRsW95inoji23XFe cBiSaVSi20HVtdDnpRpl61qIWaL5zMtt9qwcycRZcWb6FN9LGksMLsDA54MWyAIffjpl 7Cn/CA5PSaEdIbJ6M24eOrPeG6ddZ4HDLMZeo44eIfZjbNvimJDBO1cHMSTKu03bRuOE YfxpHMkfoIjX4SQjdm6dl/5ibcNQHGnsHcxDIWXOXMLR0iNZ7bWQqBbddvkRawnVpa4d z1zA4XDlCtf0KnblTEPk0jEJI/L6Vzc68ITVztzgMESwDDb0qQQC6BX0FoD3umt2JUdF oaeg== X-Received: by 10.236.140.231 with SMTP id e67mr21358806yhj.69.1406282629772; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 03:03:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lumiwa.farms.net (pool-71-169-159-57.burl.east.myfairpoint.net. [71.169.159.57]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 45sm19496646yhj.32.2014.07.25.03.03.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Jul 2014 03:03:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Ajtim To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: lumiwa@gmail.com Subject: pkg delete Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 06:03:45 -0400 Message-ID: <2222035.u0T6CjoCzj@lumiwa.farms.net> User-Agent: KMail/4.12.5 (FreeBSD/10.0-RELEASE-p7; KDE/4.12.5; amd64; ; ) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:03:52 -0000 Hi! I try to switch to texlive but I have a problem to delete old files with the last updated pkg. For example: pkg delete teTeX-texmf-3.0_9 Updating database digests format: 100% Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) Deinstallation has been requested for the following 25 packages (of 1233 packages in the universe): Installed packages to be REMOVED: teTeX-texmf-3.0_9 kde-workspace-4.11.9 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) plasma-scriptengine-ruby-4.11.9 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) plasma-scriptengine-python-4.11.9 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) maxima-5.31.3 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) gnuplot-4.6.5_4 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kdeplasma-addons-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) okular-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kget-4.12.5_1 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) cantor-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) octave-3.8.1_3 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) dvipsk-tetex-5.95a_8 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kdeedu-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) py27-pykde4-4.12.5_1 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) ruby19-korundum-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) smokekde-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kdenetwork-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kdesdk-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kate-plugin-pate-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kde-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kdeartwork-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kdetoys-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kdegames-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) ktux-4.12.5 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) kajongg-4.12.5_1 (depends on teTeX-texmf-3.0_9) The operation will free 653 MB Proceed with deinstalling packages [y/N]: n I don't want to delete all packages. I want to delete just teTeX-texmf but I don't know how. I did try with pkg set -A 0 teTeX-texmf-3.0_9 but it doesn't works. Thank you. -- ajtiM -------- http://www.redbubble.com/people/lumiwa From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 10:37:06 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2129D8C9 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:37:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1blp0187.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.187]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95EA52047 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:37:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94] (2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94) by CY1PR0301MB0841.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.163.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.995.14; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:36:56 +0000 Message-ID: <53D23342.5000600@my.hennepintech.edu> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 05:36:50 -0500 From: Andrew Berg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Re: pkg delete References: <2222035.u0T6CjoCzj@lumiwa.farms.net> In-Reply-To: <2222035.u0T6CjoCzj@lumiwa.farms.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94] X-ClientProxiedBy: BY2PR03CA050.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.249.23) To CY1PR0301MB0841.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.160.163.147) X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: X-Forefront-PRVS: 02830F0362 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(6009001)(199002)(189002)(24454002)(64126003)(86362001)(85852003)(87266999)(21056001)(80316001)(77982001)(59896001)(83072002)(83506001)(23676002)(50986999)(88552001)(76176999)(87976001)(83322001)(77096002)(92566001)(75432001)(99396002)(92726001)(85306003)(65806001)(95666004)(81542001)(105586002)(50466002)(79102001)(89122001)(110136001)(65956001)(2351001)(81342001)(42186005)(64706001)(76482001)(101416001)(54356999)(106356001)(107886001)(31966008)(102836001)(80022001)(74502001)(107046002)(74662001)(4396001)(46102001)(47776003)(20776003)(221733001)(33656002)(89472002); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR0301MB0841; H:[IPv6:2601:2:4780:2fd:a08f:5c72:56cf:df94]; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; LANG:en; X-OriginatorOrg: my.hennepintech.edu X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:37:06 -0000 On 2014.07.25 05:03, Ajtim wrote: > I don't want to delete all packages. I want to delete just teTeX-texmf but I > don't know how. I did try with pkg set -A 0 teTeX-texmf-3.0_9 but it doesn't > works. You can forcibly delete just teTeX-texmf with -f (as documented in the pkg-delete man page), but the rest of those packages will be broken until you install it again. It's not deleting *all* packages, just teTeX-texmf and the packages that depend on it. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 13:50:08 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE9B9D74 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:50:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.unitedinsong.com.au (mail.unitedinsong.com.au [150.101.178.33]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58EEB2348 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:50:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from laptop3.herveybayaustralia.com.au (laptop3.herveybayaustralia.com.au [192.168.0.185]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.unitedinsong.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7841E2733D for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 23:50:04 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <53D2608B.3050901@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 23:50:03 +1000 From: Da Rock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FBSD10 Atheros wifi not working References: <534B32FA.30500@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <534BC380.90608@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <534E80AB.4000007@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <5350780F.2070806@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <535116CA.9060009@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <53511DC2.6070501@herveybayaustralia.com.au> <53537909.3080407@herveybayaustralia.com.au> In-Reply-To: <53537909.3080407@herveybayaustralia.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 13:50:08 -0000 Dredging this back up as I finally have been able to get back to it with a hiatus on the work levels. Adrian, I have been fiddling with this and while the debug messages are no more informative my observations are. One thing has been rather prominent and that is that on boot the Atheros card seems to want quite a bit of time to stabilise. WPA supplicant comes in too early, and it will never stabilise until a reboot without WPA kicking in. But even then it takes about 2-5mins before you can hit it wpa_supplicant. This is a quad core machine; is it possible it cannot coordinate on smp? The debug errors continue regardless even if wpa is off and it is given time to stabilise. Once stable, though, the errors slowly die away. Just hoping this may help if you need to get a patch in for the next release. My own issues appear to run further than just network on this release... xorg, kms, multi-vga, pkg.... fun fun fun :-D Just let me know if you want more tests done. On 04/20/14 17:36, Da Rock wrote: > On 04/20/14 00:34, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> On 18 April 2014 05:42, Da Rock >> wrote: >>> Skipped another thought - I wouldn't have thought the laptop I have >>> was too >>> badly built, and how would the noise cause the error messages? I >>> didn't have >>> that many messages for the iwn in the m/c's prior, is it just the >>> atheros >>> chipsets? I kind of expect some reconnection issues, but the >>> hardware reset >>> messages (from 9.x) were disconcerting - these current ones are >>> obviously >>> worse. >>> >>> And I meant to add: where do I go now? Should I send you the logs or >>> other >>> errors? >> >> Well, I highly recommend rebuilding with debugging in your kernel >> config: >> >> * ATH_DEBUG >> * AH_DEBUG >> * ATH_DIAGAPI > Thats already been done, as per last (second to last?) post. All it > really managed to do was crash the system. >> >> And then figure out why you can't build the ath tools. >> >> The output from athstats will likely be helpful. >> >> The reset stuff is interesting - it means the NIC is taking way too >> long to finish some task. Normally grabbing that lock doesn't take too >> long, but something has your NIC angry. >> >> Yes, please compile up athstats at least. :-) > It'd have to be athstats, wouldn't it? Right where it stops compiling > with an error (why would it be using gcc still?). I'll give it a shot... > > Thanks Adrian. And let me know if you want that mini pcie. >> >> >> -a >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 17:30:43 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E378D1B8 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:30:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C7E1296D for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:30:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wi0-f182.google.com with SMTP id d1so1352886wiv.15 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:30:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=WXNJxAnilzT6wnNpBeJ2cfUNj7IzEaqtJ7JkGDzoTc8=; b=Vwc5xqPGQ4dSemzaU46E6QVhYlV0yNgPX6OVxLeOdTABNHT5RfymGiiKkC5TgaWd1v 9Pq+VagIKehVrrRTJQ01GXUFz3M6tX0khd6hbsvRgQBaw7yDLyhMDqNeaf00u+q6Q51u QOxmXNbeah2TFSmLU/kQ7N0gSDcYcX3+djqobEI/b3vHdmb4Vl98FW4XUltow+sgXUBZ wJ5JML22ZOBQMHFaHkMAuvJyNn1tbI6YKfWb8aUpXWQE82QE2aGc1cHf0+Xjjf+D0iDq FPpEqohS2kgi5906Pb051xkOUXBczA+HIGYTjNJJRyBJj6yoY56aQz9TYjNKNHZFXPlH XBKg== X-Received: by 10.194.239.135 with SMTP id vs7mr24246225wjc.70.1406309440556; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([94.195.197.42]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id au7sm26911225wjc.41.2014.07.25.10.30.39 for (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:30:38 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Geom Journaling on / volume Message-ID: <20140725183038.481f2914@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20140724142447.GT1848@mordor.lan> References: <53D10FA5.8090001@gmail.com> <20140724142447.GT1848@mordor.lan> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.24.22; amd64-portbld-freebsd10.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 17:30:44 -0000 On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 16:24:47 +0200 Julien Cigar wrote: > On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 10:52:37AM -0300, "Dante F. B. Col=F2" wrote: > > Hello everyone, > >=20 > > I would like to use geom journal on all volumes, is there is anyway > > to use it on / volume too ? I presume so since google turns-up a lot of discussions of problems from a few years ago. You'd probably have to do it from a different boot disk and either add a journal partition to an existing root or create partitions for a new install. IIWY I'd try it out first on a disposable drive before doing anything dangerous. I don't think it's worth doing unless you have a large root with /usr on it. If you keep /tmp files off a small root, it doesn't get many writes.=20 >=20 > Nowadays SU+J should be used instead of gjournal No, it shouldn't, they do different things. SU+J is a replacement for fsck -B which recovers lost blocks and inodes in the background. It's not a journalled filesystem in the normal sense of the term. I don't know if it's been improved but SU+J got a reputation for being unreliable. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 19:42:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 655D53C8; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:42:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2054C262E; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:42:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Cloudmark-SP-Filtered: true X-Cloudmark-SP-Result: v=1.1 cv=PyywdG1hhzAAEaY8aZXFLtMUnlqk6chnja1kir+Tqrg= c=1 sm=1 a=cQ5pcHtl6RgA:10 a=QrugwKR0C_UA:10 a=wAGQQ9Az6v0A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=ICAaq7hcmGcA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=IbtKDeXwb2+SRU442/pi3A==:17 a=TQf1RjA6AAAA:8 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=qUHAj0C30p8RyJ7GzysA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=XYlxyNO1GmcA:10 a=nLNdtIfjiDMA:10 a=V7tsTZBp22UA:10 a=SV7veod9ZcQA:10 a=hkJOn7fyG5ZauHrd:21 a=q2OYaSsIqhtQz_Cg:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO spqr.komquats.com) ([96.50.7.119]) by idcmail-mo2no.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2014 13:42:33 -0600 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E28A4AF; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6PJCVZL003786; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:12:31 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.14.9/8.14.8/Submit) with ESMTP id s6PHr1Pd099607; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:53:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@komquats.com) Message-Id: <201407251753.s6PHr1Pd099607@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.6 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.komquats.com/ To: Fbsd8 Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? In-Reply-To: Message from Fbsd8 of "Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:05:33 -0400." <53D0239D.1050906@a1poweruser.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:52:48 -0700 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:59:32 +0000 Cc: Cy Schubert , Maxim Khitrov , "Andrey V. Elsukov" , FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:42:41 -0000 Sorry for the late reply. It's a busy time right now. In message <53D0239D.1050906@a1poweruser.com>, Fbsd8 writes: > Cy Schubert wrote: > >> On 20.07.2014 18:15, Maxim Khitrov wrote: > >>> In my opinion, the way forward is to forget (at least temporarily) the > >>> SMP changes, bring pf in sync with OpenBSD, put a policy in place to > >>> follow their releases as closely as possible, and then try to > >>> reintroduce all the SMP work. I think the latter has to be done > >>> upstream, otherwise it'll always be a story of diverging codebases. > >>> Furthermore, if FreeBSD developers were willing to spend some time > >>> improving pf performance on OpenBSD, then Henning and other OpenBSD > >>> developers might be more receptive to changes that make the porting > >>> process easier. > >> Even if you just drop current PF from FreeBSD, there is nobody, who want > >> to port new PF from OpenBSD. And this is not easy task, as you may > >> think. Gleb has worked on rewriting PF more than half year. So, return > >> back all improvements after import will be hard enough and, again, > >> nobody want to do it. :) > > > > One way or another something needs to be done and agreed it would be a lot > > of work. Our options are, > > > > a) Import OpenBSD pf thereby throwing away our current investment in pf. > > All our work to get it up to snuff with our IP stack, SMP, and VIMAGE would > > > be all for naught. We do get a new pf though. Won't be a quality port > > though. Personally, not my #1 option. > > > > b) Merge updates from OpenBSD pf to our pf. Once again a lot of work but we > > > do save the work we put into our pf. Once again a lot of work. We'd be > > introducing incompatibility. > > > > c) Do nothing. It goes without saying that pf would suffer rot and > > eventually we would need to do something. > > > > d) Yank pf from tree. An option but probably not a great one. We do have > > two other packet filters in the kernel (ipfw and ipfilter) however they are > > > different beasts with different capabilities. I think the reason we have > > the packet filters we do have is for the capabilities they bring to the > > table. I for one have run more than one in the same kernel because each has > > > different capabilities. > > > > e) We could add capability to pf on a piecemeal basis. Option (b) but as > > time permits. Remember, people have jobs and commitments. Funding would > > help address this. > > > > f) Finally, how does NetBSD's npf compare to OpenBSD's pf? Is it more > > compatible with our IP stack? Could this be an option? > > > > Anything we do should work with VIMAGE and be able to handle nat66 as well. > > > > > > Hello Cy; > Finally a voice I recognize. If I remember correctly you stepped up to > the plate earlier this year and did for ipfilter the same kind of things Last autumn. > this thread is talking about for pf. IE; apply upstream maintenance and > convert to FreeBSD standards. I think your work was a BSD fork of > Darrow's ipfilter which from this point on all upstream maintenance must > be hand merged into the BSD fork. I am a long time ipfilter user and Actually we did not fork ipfilter. It's simply included into our tree, with a few modifications. > thank you for your dedication and work ethics getting the updated > ipfilter into 10.0 and 9.3 so quickly. You're welcome. I too am a long time ipfilter user (Solaris and FreeBSD). > > So as someone who has been there and done that already you have unique > experience to really know the size of the task in hours to accomplish a > pf upgrade. Could you list the tasks and hours it took you to perform > the ipfilter upgrade so readers can have a real insight into what they > are asking for? The experience is not unique. Every developer pretty much follows the same process when importing code into the tree. As for tasks, the ipfilter import was relatively simple compared to some others. Remember, ipfilter was designed to be run on any of the BSDs, SunOS, Solaris, and HP/UX, IRIX, and Tru64 UNIX. That made upgrading from 4.1.28 to 5.1.2 simpler than pf which is written only for OpenBSD and its stack. > > I agree with your option "e" above, but I would re-word it this way. > Using the pf fork we already have in place, hand merge upstream > differences in piecemeal chunks as time permits. The openbsd new syntax > being the first chunk, closely followed by VIMAGE awareness. Personally I would choose option "e" because of $JOB and $FAMILY commitments. Adding the new OpenBSD syntax may be more difficult than we might think. The new syntax may be related to a new internal structure of pf. If the new pf is a rewrite (ipfilter 5.1.2 was a rewrite of large chunks of code), then you have no option but to do a wholesale import and retrofit our mods back into it, if they would even fit at all. I think the first task for anyone taking this on would be to familiarize oneself with the current pf code in FreeBSD and what was done to make it fit and to enhance it, then familiarize oneself with the new pf to get a feel for what work would be involved. > > When it comes to someone volunteering to do the work, many of us would > step up, but the fact is only a very very few people have the coding and > kernel knowledge to even consider doing this. Understanding the FreeBSD kernel helps but if a person doesn't have intimate knowledge of the FreeBSD kernel, you can always learn. There are some good books out there to help along the way. The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Kernel and Writing FreeBSD Device Drivers are two good examples. Of course having intimate knowledge is better but having worked on other kernels and understanding the nature of the beast goes a long way to working on any systems programming project, not just FreeBSD. If you understand how kernels generally operate you're more than half way there to volunteering and help out -- submit code and someone more senior on the project can take it from there and help out with the effort. (Once again, many hands make light work.) I don't think people should feel afraid of systems programming (kernel programming). The reason Linux gets so much more traction in any particular area of development is because they have many more people working on it. I would like to see more people pitch in and help out. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 25 22:30:11 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97DEABEF for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 22:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [198.74.231.69]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCC124BB for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 22:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6373A46B2A for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.8/8.14.8) with ESMTP id s6PMUAAV078531 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:30:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.8/8.14.8/Submit) with ESMTP id s6PMUAFD078528 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:30:10 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:30:10 -0400 (EDT) From: doug Reply-To: doug@safeport.com To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: pkgng question Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:30:10 -0400 (EDT) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 22:30:11 -0000 I started with a 9.2-release system with xfce-4.10_5 plus related/needed other stuff and did the following: freebsd-update to 9.2-RELEASE-p10 #0; updated ports with portsnap; and finally installed pgk via pkg_add. So to try some things I did: 'pkg info' which looked okay; 'pkg check -d -n -a' returned no ouput, I figured no news was good news. For pkg stats I got: Local package database: Installed packages: 418 Disk space occupied: 1 GB Still cool. Then I tried 'pkg upgrade -n' and got 'Nothing to do' after several hundred of the following: "pkg: sqlite: near "ORDER": syntax error (pkgdb.c:3186)" probably 418 lines but written to SYSERROR so difficult to count. Several questions come to mind: 1) The system was build around Dec 2013, so I think 'nothing to do is probably not the right answer. 2) Are the sql errors correct? Probably because you can not order the null set but should be suppressed?? I am late to the game but I did scan PRs and questions before asking. An unrelated question. Everything I used seems to be there except for pkg_tree. Perhaps the need goes away but I would not expect an autoupdate of 418 packages to work after 7 months of no changes. pkg_tree was helpful in attacking upgrading in cases I did not want to delete all and start again. Thanks for any thoughts and/or guidence Doug From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 07:28:41 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD71E5CA for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 07:28:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail33.elabs5.com (mail33.elabs5.com [208.66.204.207]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE882F84 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 07:28:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.5.56] ([10.0.5.56:33430] helo=mail6.elabs5.com) by mta04.l3s.lyris.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.45 r(34222M)) with ESMTP id AC/16-30232-2F353D35; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:08:34 -0700 To: Subject: =?utf-8?Q?EOSS:=20Get=2050%=20OFF=20on=20food?= Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:08:02 -0700 X-EmailAdvisor: 1579267 X-Delivery: Level 4 Reply-To: mailtous@onlinekhana.in X-Complaints-To: abuse@elabs5.com Message-Id: <20140726070903.E30185266B11@elabs5.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "=?utf-8?Q?foodpanda?=" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 07:28:41 -0000 To view a web version of this message, use the link below: http://www.elabs5.com/ct.html?ufl=e&rtr=on&s=jazil,xukj,2je0,1mk,1md3,jxg8,78ff&MLM_MID=1579267&MLM_MLID=118440&MLM_SITEID=32425293&MLM_UNIQUEID=e30185266b To unsubscribe, send an email to: unsubscribe-118440@icubemails5.em.marketinghq.net Foodpanda North Indian Fast Food Chinese South Indian Pizza Ice creams Continental Salads Minimum order Rs.300, *Valid on online payment of your first order Offers of the day- Top Restaurants T&C To avail this offer, use the Voucher Code "MYFIRSTORDER" when you place your order. 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Get in touch Facebook Twitter g+ DOWNLOAD FREE FOODPANDA APP Google Play App Store To unsubscribe, send an email to: unsubscribe-118440@icubemails5.em.marketinghq.net From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 09:17:12 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30B208CD for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:17:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp6.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:3cd3:cd67:fafa:3d78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "ca.infracaninophile.co.uk" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B051627F4 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:17:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from seedling.black-earth.co.uk (seedling.black-earth.co.uk [81.2.117.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id s6Q9H2Sp006253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:17:02 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Authentication-Results: lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none header.from=infracaninophile.co.uk DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk s6Q9H2Sp006253 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infracaninophile.co.uk; s=201001-infracaninophile; t=1406366223; bh=RZ9qDDHkfWWeiTLuy+bQ/tD6acWSqKVz6MaeSfNMbbw=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; z=Date:=20Sat,=2026=20Jul=202014=2010:17:01=20+0100|From:=20Matthew =20Seaman=20|To:=20freebsd-questi ons@freebsd.org|Subject:=20Re:=20pkgng=20question|References:=20|In-Reply-To: =20; b=fxO1xllWIRJVfmVwtMYy4DKn25K1eT8sqzzxumQ2+MpVMdSLDJrOsPlSZc0N01NM1 b/1sL7D/XxjYcDl7Yre4zA6sS6lZZtRysd6n3EggHAmMT6Q8aIcodGXcH21/4A1Zmr /uYf+PjQ+noL1W7qdAoUlkwUqMZFYSEvzYo/O0Fw= Message-ID: <53D3720D.6040805@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:17:01 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: pkgng question References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 OpenPGP: id=E1ECF9BB Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8JBlnViNRsFrBX5IpRQbVg0xmm8SFe9WI" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.4 at lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on lucid-nonsense.infracaninophile.co.uk X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 09:17:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --8JBlnViNRsFrBX5IpRQbVg0xmm8SFe9WI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 25/07/2014 23:30, doug wrote: > I started with a 9.2-release system with xfce-4.10_5 plus related/neede= d > other stuff and did the following: freebsd-update to 9.2-RELEASE-p10 #0= ; > updated ports with portsnap; and finally installed pgk via pkg_add. >=20 > So to try some things I did: 'pkg info' which looked okay; 'pkg check -= d > -n -a' returned no ouput, I figured no news was good news. For pkg stat= s > I got: >=20 > Local package database: > Installed packages: 418 > Disk space occupied: 1 GB >=20 > Still cool. Then I tried 'pkg upgrade -n' and got 'Nothing to do' after= > several hundred of the following: > "pkg: sqlite: near "ORDER": syntax error (pkgdb.c:3186)" >=20 > probably 418 lines but written to SYSERROR so difficult to count. > Several questions come to mind: >=20 > 1) The system was build around Dec 2013, so I think 'nothing to do is= > probably > not the right answer. >=20 > 2) Are the sql errors correct? Probably because you can not order the= > null > set but should be suppressed?? >=20 > I am late to the game but I did scan PRs and questions before asking. >=20 > An unrelated question. Everything I used seems to be there except for > pkg_tree. Perhaps the need goes away but I would not expect an > autoupdate of 418 packages to work after 7 months of no changes. > pkg_tree was helpful in attacking upgrading in cases I did not want to > delete all and start again. >=20 > Thanks for any thoughts and/or guidence Which version of pkg(8) did you first install, and have you upgraded it since? Where did you get pkg(8) from? Can you show us the output of 'pkg -vv' please? The sqlite syntax error is a bug in pkg(8), but there have been many similar addressed over time. There's two possibilities here: either the sqlite schema on your system is corrupt, or your version of pkg(8) is producing incorrect SQL. You can get pkg(8) to print out the SQL it is running by calling with debugging turned up to 4: env DEBUG_LEVEL=3D4 pkg upgrade -n If it turns out the pkg is producing mangled SQL then you can probably cure the problem by forcibly upgrading to the latest. Careful though: if it's your local.sqlite that's wrong here, then forcibly upgrading pkg(8) could just be making things worse. Cheers, Matthew --=20 Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey JID: matthew@infracaninophile.co.uk --8JBlnViNRsFrBX5IpRQbVg0xmm8SFe9WI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.20 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJT03IOXxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXQ2NTNBNjhCOTEzQTRFNkNGM0UxRTEzMjZC QjIzQUY1MThFMUE0MDEzAAoJELsjr1GOGkAT/VUP/AmLrG4tG1NsUvjgj9f/YFYD 09bimQUT6v2sxtiYiSCt3VnRPrNr2xtgQGfKCfxr9Bevg4dRgt9zIBzsSKGPagJW OIUXIbSOzR8bjkgu7ULv6NLx8hMnfDXcF8o6SuAb9H8upPFrVe8e0zqoq7og7H+B QxtcwT7QknTLaPY2XKR5ThMQT7g/zCcDdy7SgfTv0tkQpgwRE+ptP2KqdnhdIbjv vm/5tBUFoCTH3XryxIgX0XGBKP7HzVjaS0GF/kQynCFK3A8Zt8EGi3vAVB7fdej/ DnHMuWkpXo+FbpQsuznONKVbU0ogLQ0Fi34/Ruw0QqPwPD6Ijhhq2jKJXSCWmJsv mwmWpys+AknaF+6N3brI9yWAmCOyaKIDlCx4HFJTCQocMaDxQ/aISTPsIWBKxfkl /wDXGrNqbc11iW7wrWJjQ4tS2z06pI2EFoMvVWlKOSQj93Y3Ma9etfq6L8u8zg9e Vb/IvF+27VDUQ361u/vM3+CYkiRW/p+UtARQzW8+URr1KS4HWDxYDLWCZy5ievd7 y0TsObdRjytY1bZFtfPSkRpV/y6dbh7z509Sfg06rnZqkfiFnqSTbfK/bckEP7A7 ibx/DuAhcyFnW8XPIKApWlJyQUjz9stoMM4SMI2CtGB1TyI9Wjou0Vx6665VO5QT 9wmV/klfIscigCa5L/FE =oNIA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8JBlnViNRsFrBX5IpRQbVg0xmm8SFe9WI-- From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 12:17:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCA12F3B for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:17:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from avasout07.plus.net (avasout07.plus.net [84.93.230.235]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76309263A for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:17:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from curlew.milibyte.co.uk ([84.92.153.232]) by avasout07 with smtp id X0EJ1o007516WCc010EL6U; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 13:14:20 +0100 X-CM-Score: 0.00 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=ANQ+opto c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=lfSX4pPLp9EkufIcToJk/A==:117 a=lfSX4pPLp9EkufIcToJk/A==:17 a=D7rCoLxHAAAA:8 a=0Bzu9jTXAAAA:8 a=_gelNhxkGRwA:10 a=siBcfH3C_HYA:10 a=ZTb9aqGL9YkA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=wLvYfUUl34cXeDXSANkA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 Received: from curlew.lan ([192.168.1.13]) by curlew.milibyte.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1XB0rh-0000is-Kr for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 13:14:18 +0100 From: Mike Clarke To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 13:14:16 +0100 Message-ID: <1947386.pOQVzt1YdP@curlew.lan> User-Agent: KMail/4.12.5 (FreeBSD/9.1-RELEASE-p17; KDE/4.12.5; amd64; ; ) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 192.168.1.13 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jmc-freebsd2@milibyte.co.uk X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on curlew.lan X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Subject: Backing up zfs system to external disk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on curlew.milibyte.co.uk) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:17:32 -0000 I've put together a script that backs up my zfs system to a zfs pool on an external ESATA drive. The script imports the backup pool with the -N option to avoid mounting filesystems on top of the running system, updates the backup pool to the latest snapshot with zfs send | zfs receive and then exports the backup pool. This normally works fine except in the rare cases when the system is shut down or crashes while the backup pool is still imported. If this happens then problems arise on the next reboot because filesystems will be mounted from both the system and backup pools using identical mountpoints. I tried creating the backup pool with the "-m none" option to avoid this but it didn't help. It only appears to apply to datasets created with "zfs create" - datasets resulting from "zfs receive" retain their original mountpoints. As a workaround I've created the following rc script which checks for and exports the backup pool before the local filesystems are mounted and seems to work OK. Since this isn't part of the base system I ought to put it in /usr/local/etc/rc.d but it needs to run before /usr is mounted so I had to put it in /etc/rc.d. I was wondering if there was a better way of solving this problem without breaking to the normal file system hierarchy? 8< - 8< - 8< - 8< - 8< - 8< - 8< - 8< - 8< -8< - 8< - #!/bin/sh # BEFORE: zfs # REQUIRE: root . /etc/rc.subr name=check_esata rcvar=check_esata_enable start_cmd="${name}_start" stop_cmd=":" load_rc_config $name : ${check_esata_enable:=yes} : ${check_esata_pool:=esata} check_esata_start() { echo "Checking esata backup pool" if zpool list $check_esata_pool 1>/dev/null 2>&1 then echo "Exporting $check_esata_pool" zpool export $check_esata_pool zpool list fi } run_rc_command "$1" -- Mike Clarke From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 15:28:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3179C4F; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:28:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.feld.me (mail.feld.me [66.170.3.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.feld.me", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 737522512; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:28:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.feld.me (mail.feld.me [66.170.3.6]); by mail.feld.me (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 4fc7a4b6; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:27:56 -0500 (CDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=feld.me; h=references :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to:sender; s=blargle2; bh=hxRad wc/Za9tV2P5xplJ0z9AfH0=; b=yUUcwSG6TzR+ZWgCFlVc7UTMBi4ccki7TnR/Q hX5zSMB0vEN+RHvcTemDCvqzZayU8p2xvsC6HkeAYCMmTc6Wdak1ZeTsjfMS8VwS DZHTumflyZoXUO9//PAt48nGVav22NbDNiu1DPjEWtwaQUxqO9jSY7Z2z1T4ELab ddRkFEBEYELmrFFg37yB2+rbac0xsMdIpaBxCfbRQoMyz5F9asQ4EwLzH2Dh4F2/ 5UlTKNQQj3ri2c19hB/SKoZc1KT2ljiZv3qIY+I2/nexe0kEDbMCEbE7UovYPXgy rAcMLKLbMk/PjPL7zln/hqs22UfqH5IAV2sXHt+XO2jOgWQeQ== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=feld.me; h=references :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to:sender; q=dns; s=blargle2; b= UdQJBEzrjHC3BxKM0q/iGRRXXSSaXLcjOGJ/HPKagg6b3mTvW9EnJU09kzWMoQAJ VGK1kbZ71KKpylzW29MFQaUc+ybtXAugygji3I8TdbNIijX6gG2n3ZJ3lyU2ndhS kDknNh0x0qm/NjjGLE/PM2mdGpgoMDZzjngzxQiu12KGF3KdC/e3+0yO8UJgoc6K IwklQPrNc177SRSeSI2d3vhiioKUE02SUYPbKaMLTkcSs6VGYIHZtHgB+RrEARY+ IKXdHHbe+DIo+wUArUK2C+5ko7KIgJo7Ts5f034zJaca3qPO6mg2lGYee4fo2etJ yGm+ncaxwwe15vjPYJzrQA== Received: from mail.feld.me (mail.feld.me [66.170.3.6]); by mail.feld.me (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id b91505e7; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:27:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from feld@feld.me by mail.feld.me (Archiveopteryx 3.2.0) with esmtpa id 1406388474-78988-78985/5/2; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:27:54 +0000 References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D257) From: Mark Felder Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:27:51 -0500 To: "Kristian K. Nielsen" Sender: feld@feld.me Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 15:28:07 -0000 We've already heard of Henning offering to help port a new pf but the = olive branch has been extended even further. He responded to some = comments of mine on twitter: @HenningBrauer: @rhymebyter @feldpos I offered help/advice to whomever = seriously attempts to update pf in @dragonflybsd AND @freebsd. @HenningBrauer: @feldpos it takes someone in freebsd/netbsd/dragonfly to = update their ancient pf versions, then code can flow bidirectional Technical hurdles aside, that sounds like the beginning of an OpenPf to = me... From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 16:03:16 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA4B9476 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:03:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [198.74.231.69]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 751E8284A for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:03:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43EDD46B0C; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.8/8.14.8) with ESMTP id s6QG3EBb085869; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:03:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.14.8/8.14.8/Submit) with ESMTP id s6QG3EQL085866; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:03:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:03:14 -0400 (EDT) From: doug Reply-To: doug@safeport.com To: Matthew Seaman Subject: Re: pkgng question In-Reply-To: <53D3720D.6040805@infracaninophile.co.uk> Message-ID: References: <53D3720D.6040805@infracaninophile.co.uk> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (BSF 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 26 Jul 2014 12:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:03:16 -0000 On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Matthew Seaman wrote: > >> Still cool. Then I tried 'pkg upgrade -n' and got 'Nothing to do' after >> several hundred of the following: >> "pkg: sqlite: near "ORDER": syntax error (pkgdb.c:3186)" >> >> probably 418 lines but written to SYSERROR so difficult to count. >> Several questions come to mind: >> >> 1) The system was build around Dec 2013, so I think 'nothing to do is >> probably >> not the right answer. >> >> 2) Are the sql errors correct? Probably because you can not order the >> null >> set but should be suppressed?? >> >> I am late to the game but I did scan PRs and questions before asking. >> >> An unrelated question. Everything I used seems to be there except for >> pkg_tree. Perhaps the need goes away but I would not expect an >> autoupdate of 418 packages to work after 7 months of no changes. >> pkg_tree was helpful in attacking upgrading in cases I did not want to >> delete all and start again. >> >> Thanks for any thoughts and/or guidence > > Which version of pkg(8) did you first install, and have you upgraded it > since? Where did you get pkg(8) from? Can you show us the output of > 'pkg -vv' please? I added pkg via pkg_add after updating to 9.2. Since that gave the EOL warning I did a 'pkg delete' to clear everything and then boot strapped pkg in the normal was. I figured gotta go forward. Aside from the possibility of being able to upgrade pkg is much faster and easier to install Xorg + you wm of choice. search also nicely solves the problem: "what the #$%^ is the name of the package". Also the help system makes it easy/convenient to learn the options as the need arises. A really nice job on this. > The sqlite syntax error is a bug in pkg(8), but there have been many > similar addressed over time. There's two possibilities here: either the > sqlite schema on your system is corrupt, or your version of pkg(8) is > producing incorrect SQL. > > You can get pkg(8) to print out the SQL it is running by calling with > debugging turned up to 4: > > env DEBUG_LEVEL=4 pkg upgrade -n > > If it turns out the pkg is producing mangled SQL then you can probably > cure the problem by forcibly upgrading to the latest. Careful though: > if it's your local.sqlite that's wrong here, then forcibly upgrading > pkg(8) could just be making things worse. > I will keep the debugging tips, thanks. As before I figured all of this was at the front end of the development cycle. When converting the pkg_add files to the pkgdb I got a lot of messages to the effect of 'option conclict' or some such. If my issues are of any interest I can fairly easily duplicate the process on another system. Otherwise thanks, and this is much, much better for me and I would think the Xorg folks as well. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 17:46:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB1B87EC; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:46:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qg0-x22d.google.com (mail-qg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A8142085; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:46:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id f51so6594111qge.4 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:46:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=viFMfSu3xL0bTFa8U3C3BEbmu6BVglOxecAYkuGk1mE=; b=DU4ZFOWndCgW/oskVSH1MHmRJnT2yItI2wJCxg9456SFfibHMbBQBk4h59PUkHdxKd MvxgURExfBEgJ2xQ0Fbm8iH7cdpj5yGx3WChiZae1e6OM+jBJHeAobtNEKctFUTf1/2J vyz9+Mcw3LM0BRPDdDJWHNir1aOyC8sXQFR9SMARZUAK4Q86XxJliFTXRHhBgdW+l7gQ n+OWP9fgGFqUoBvIisyonOdEA02Ec8Zq1ANx5PNKBz13pja/hnzU8fIZukT9aNKAP/99 qdPrEVakmhWzvsJe+oUvVtXQGu+gITC6e5U4y21sejLm4QW/RInp3XMPL65uy/m4D6Fd 5GdQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.55.131 with SMTP id u3mr40337971qag.98.1406396812546; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.1.6 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:46:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53C706C9.6090506@com.jkkn.dk> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 10:46:52 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: V2--pUwN4_YN38yAhwN4fgKo044 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of pf / firewall in FreeBSD ? - does it have one ? From: Adrian Chadd To: Mark Felder Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "Kristian K. Nielsen" , freebsd-current , FreeBSD Questions X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:46:53 -0000 The flow in both directions has to include: * better locking / parallelism * virtualised forwarding support (ie, vimage) If he's happy to include some stubs for that, then sure. I think both dfbsd and freebsd can use the same pf. -a On 26 July 2014 08:27, Mark Felder wrote: > We've already heard of Henning offering to help port a new pf but the olive branch has been extended even further. He responded to some comments of mine on twitter: > > @HenningBrauer: @rhymebyter @feldpos I offered help/advice to whomever seriously attempts to update pf in @dragonflybsd AND @freebsd. > > @HenningBrauer: @feldpos it takes someone in freebsd/netbsd/dragonfly to update their ancient pf versions, then code can flow bidirectional > > Technical hurdles aside, that sounds like the beginning of an OpenPf to me... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 18:40:21 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC9F28EA for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:40:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tds-solutions.net (tds-solutions.net [192.99.32.153]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C394224BA for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:40:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tds-solutions.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tds-solutions.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346AEFF1B7 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at tds-solutions.net Received: from tds-solutions.net ([127.0.0.1]) by tds-solutions.net (tds-solutions.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zHTHe-4X0q4f for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.35] (24-177-51-95.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com [24.177.51.95]) (Authenticated sender: sorressean) by tds-solutions.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D03A8FF1AB for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53D3F606.2090308@tysdomain.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 14:40:06 -0400 From: "Littlefield, Tyler" Reply-To: tyler@tysdomain.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: affordable NAS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:40:22 -0000 Hello all: I was looking at the NAS minis, and while they look amazing they're also way expensive. I was interested to see if someone has a good solution for a cheap small NAS system that I could either build or purchase that wouldn't cost nearly as much. I'm looking for freebsd-compatible hardware with at least a gigabit ethernet card. I'll be dropping in the harddrives, I'm thinking raid 10 (though it doesn't have to be--I just wanted the striping for a larger disk space plus redundancy via mirror), with maybe 4 2 tb drives. I'll be using stock FreeBSD on this: I have no clue how accessible the FreeNAS web frontend or any of the other software would be for something like this with a screen reader. Any thoughts/ideas would be awesome. Thanks, -- Take care, Ty http://tds-solutions.net He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave. From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 21:36:53 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5071B353 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:36:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.cyberleo.net (mtumishi.cyberleo.net [216.226.128.201]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1BB23E3 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:36:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.16.44.4] (vitani.den.cyberleo.net [216.80.73.130]) by mail.cyberleo.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E61EF1933; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53D41D5C.1010003@cyberleo.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:27:56 -0500 From: CyberLeo Kitsana User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mike Clarke , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backing up zfs system to external disk References: <1947386.pOQVzt1YdP@curlew.lan> In-Reply-To: <1947386.pOQVzt1YdP@curlew.lan> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:36:53 -0000 On 07/26/2014 07:14 AM, Mike Clarke wrote: > > I've put together a script that backs up my zfs system to a zfs pool > on an external ESATA drive. > > The script imports the backup pool with the -N option to avoid > mounting filesystems on top of the running system, updates the backup > pool to the latest snapshot with zfs send | zfs receive and then > exports the backup pool. > > This normally works fine except in the rare cases when the system is > shut down or crashes while the backup pool is still imported. If this > happens then problems arise on the next reboot because filesystems > will be mounted from both the system and backup pools using identical > mountpoints. > > I tried creating the backup pool with the "-m none" option to avoid > this but it didn't help. It only appears to apply to datasets created > with "zfs create" - datasets resulting from "zfs receive" retain their > original mountpoints. > > As a workaround I've created the following rc script which checks for > and exports the backup pool before the local filesystems are mounted > and seems to work OK. Since this isn't part of the base system I ought > to put it in /usr/local/etc/rc.d but it needs to run before /usr is > mounted so I had to put it in /etc/rc.d. > > I was wondering if there was a better way of solving this problem > without breaking to the normal file system hierarchy? Set canmount=off or noauto on the backup datasets. Beware that this property is not inherited, so you must explicitly set it on every dataset for which you wish to avoid auto-mounting. -- Fuzzy love, -CyberLeo Technical Administrator CyberLeo.Net Webhosting http://www.CyberLeo.Net Furry Peace! - http://www.fur.com/peace/ From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 26 22:52:32 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FA7777B for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 22:52:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.monochrome.org (e.febed1.client.atlantech.net [209.190.254.14]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A038B29BF for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 22:52:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([192.168.1.11]) by mail.monochrome.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s6QMS7IS098797; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:28:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:22:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Hill To: "Littlefield, Tyler" Subject: Re: affordable NAS In-Reply-To: <53D3F606.2090308@tysdomain.com> Message-ID: References: <53D3F606.2090308@tysdomain.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 22:52:32 -0000 On Sat, 26 Jul 2014, Littlefield, Tyler wrote: [snip] > I'll be using stock FreeBSD on this: I have no clue how accessible the > FreeNAS web frontend or any of the other software would be for > something like this with a screen reader. Any thoughts/ideas would be > awesome. I've been using FreeNAS at home for years, and like it very much. It's dead easy, works right and doesn't break. In my case it's running on a build-your-own FrankenPuter. I have not tried using a screen reader and so coudn't address that. -- Chris Hill chris@monochrome.org ** [ Busy Expunging ]