From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 02:27:00 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF4D9BD3EA for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:27:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=PBUVfUba=I2=goldstein.sandia.gov=tvrusso@sandia.gov) Received: from smtp01asnl.sandia.gov (smtp01asnl.sandia.gov [198.102.153.114]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp01asnl.sandia.gov", Issuer "COMODO High-Assurance Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64532F97 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:27:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=PBUVfUba=I2=goldstein.sandia.gov=tvrusso@sandia.gov) X-IronPort-MID: 99463225 X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5700,7163,7897"; a="99463225" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,706,1432620000"; d="scan'208";a="99463225" Received: from interceptor2.sandia.gov ([198.102.152.61]) by smtp01asnl.sandia.gov with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Aug 2015 20:21:51 -0600 Received: from mailgate.sandia.gov (mailgate.sandia.gov [132.175.109.1]) by interceptor2.sandia.gov (RSA Interceptor) for ; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:21:35 -0600 Received: from goldstein.sandia.gov (goldstein.sandia.gov [134.253.237.23]) by mailgate.sandia.gov (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t7J2LX3u008778; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:21:33 -0600 Received: from goldstein.sandia.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by goldstein.sandia.gov (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t7J2LU8Y000655; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tvrusso@goldstein.sandia.gov) Received: (from tvrusso@localhost) by goldstein.sandia.gov (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) id t7J2LUab000654; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tvrusso) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:21:30 -0600 From: Tom Russo To: "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Do you still need CTM? Message-ID: <20150819022130.GT30047@goldstein.sandia.gov> Reply-To: tvrusso@sandia.gov References: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-PMX-Version: 5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2015.8.19.20916 X-PMX-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIIII, Probability=8%, Report=' HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_2999 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, DATE_TZ_NA 0, REFERENCES 0, SINGLE_URI_IN_BODY 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __C230066_P5 0, __CANPHARM_UNSUB_LINK 0, __CD 0, __CT 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __FORWARDED_MSG 0, __FRAUD_CONTACT_NUM 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_REPLYTO 0, __HTTPS_URI 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __LINES_OF_YELLING 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __REFERENCES 0, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ACC 0, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ADDY 0, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_DOMAIN 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SINGLE_URI_TEXT 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __URI_IN_BODY 0, __URI_NO_PATH 0, __URI_NO_WWW 0, __URI_NS , __USER_AGENT 0' X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-RSA-Action: allow X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:27:00 -0000 I stopped using CTM quite some time ago and moved over to svn, which works fine through our firewall (the only reason I used CTM is that cvsup didn't work through the firewall). I had quite forgotten I was even subscribed to this announce group, which I'll fix shortly. On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 02:10:11AM +0000, Montgomery-Smith, Stephen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I just received an email from one of the FreeBSD people telling me > that they are worried about the security threat posed by CTM. They > would like to disconnect it from the base FreeBSD system. > > Personally I have become extremely happy with using subversion, and if > CTM were to disappear, I could live without it very easily. > > But maybe some of you feel differently. One thing we could do is > 1. Create a CTM port; > 2. Put the deltas on a server other than official FreeBSD servers; > 3. Host our own mailing lists. > > Honestly, I think the best thing to do is to close CTM. But if anyone > else really wants CTM, and is willing to do (2) and (3), I can easily > do (1). > > Opinions? > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV0+WBAAoJEC3xK9GaktgHVsIH/3tRdn2fOZOc0ePHPmuXGRmz > 6IA+pwjsu6NyCm48Qw/mGqtovYLdqhaO7xQdIR995RnRs88+nF7UHJnWGSC6d6Gq > kDp2bKeKrV4VSWr1Hf7nTFRjQt2uF2dl5SJnEScR+7Mbllc5AlLJWeHg9f0Zd+84 > bQ2vUnfpVdI/IRH64p4sXVRpYMjHS9OPQgmwl3VE0jYAfen8zJnIKR+obopfQJ9x > dqx4orV7YCFCSqrXPBeeI39lpWrxuETXCBD1h5Z+7jn3QUW9NZoQB4yNrQ6gnZDO > heiGqq29C8xi7FIrU973X0MY+UmzfLqfM1CdSEuwI5tZi0IUmEtaoArr/tiNz/s= > =dsIp > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > ctm-announce@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-announce > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "ctm-announce-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Thomas Russo * tvrusso@sandia.gov * Tel: (505) 844-8644 Dept 1355, Electrical Models & Simulation * FAX: (505) 284-2518 Mail Stop 1177, Sandia National Laboratories *PAGER: (505) 283-2623 Albuquerque, NM 87185-1177 * CELL: (505) 469-0161 Give a man a program and you frustrate him for a day. Teach him to program and you frustrate him for life. --- Anonymous EXCEPTIONAL SERVICE IN THE NATIONAL INTEREST Sandia is a multiprogram laboratory operated for the United States Department of Energy by Sandia Corporation, a Lockheed Martin Company. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 02:29:25 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F73A9BD45F for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:29:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark.kirby@abbott.com) Received: from abtmx11.abbott.com (abtmx11.abbott.com [130.36.44.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "abbott.com", Issuer "GeoTrust SSL CA - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB3E1104A for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:29:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark.kirby@abbott.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=abbott.com; i=@abbott.com; q=dns/txt; s=key1; t=1439951364; x=1471487364; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=hGOigSg9YP4IJ+H2TnIUTyCdy7KvmwzEgxgyuP9yxb0=; b=n1tPDhtsZwaAsDAZbrmZBWULqJSotP79JwDX3p6g115QzbhF/dAUp2fW AaKEKQE0an5NOVk90UaiPbU9+fVvo8b2iwg5YIbeWxZokBOjdk5NfB5Si 5m8MOfL+vQ8s9uJ6GL3rBA1meGpBs4YMiXxmGFns3j/7qcKJcHPD7SiCd o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,706,1432616400"; d="scan'208,217";a="238095944" Received: from unknown (HELO WM10203P.oneabbott.com) ([10.248.239.183]) by abtmx11.abbott.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 18 Aug 2015 21:14:09 -0500 Received: from WA02238P.oneabbott.com (10.252.98.185) by WM10203P.oneabbott.com (10.248.239.183) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.224.2; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:14:09 -0500 Received: from WM10011P.oneabbott.com ([fe80::7d3b:5c5b:c828:83bc]) by WA02238P.oneabbott.com ([fe80::a043:8392:d65d:5863%11]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:14:09 -0500 From: "Kirby, Mark" To: "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Topic: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Index: AQHQ2iQthP2gW764skCeh9cepEWmp54SlS1T Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:14:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> In-Reply-To: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-abb-disclaimed: TRUE-Australia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:29:25 -0000 Thanks for reaching out. I would not have any issue if CTM was disabled. Best Wishes, Mark ________________________________ Mark Kirby Informatics Business Manager Abbott Diagnostics ANZ Abbott Australasia Pty Ltd 299 Lane Cove Road Macquarie Park, NSW 2133 Australia Mob: +61 421 030 182 Ph: +61 2 9857 1025 FAX: +61 2 9857 1122 mark.kirby@abbott.com [cid:0__=3DC7BBF00CDFDD95388f9e8a93df93869091@local] ________________________________ This communication may contain information that is proprietary, confidentia= l, or exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please= note that any other dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this co= mmunication is strictly prohibited. Anyone who receives this message in err= or should notify the sender immediately by telephone or by return e-mail an= d delete it from his or her computer. On 19 Aug 2015, at 12:11, Montgomery-Smith, Stephen > wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just received an email from one of the FreeBSD people telling me that they are worried about the security threat posed by CTM. They would like to disconnect it from the base FreeBSD system. Personally I have become extremely happy with using subversion, and if CTM were to disappear, I could live without it very easily. But maybe some of you feel differently. One thing we could do is 1. Create a CTM port; 2. Put the deltas on a server other than official FreeBSD servers; 3. Host our own mailing lists. Honestly, I think the best thing to do is to close CTM. But if anyone else really wants CTM, and is willing to do (2) and (3), I can easily do (1). Opinions? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV0+WBAAoJEC3xK9GaktgHVsIH/3tRdn2fOZOc0ePHPmuXGRmz 6IA+pwjsu6NyCm48Qw/mGqtovYLdqhaO7xQdIR995RnRs88+nF7UHJnWGSC6d6Gq kDp2bKeKrV4VSWr1Hf7nTFRjQt2uF2dl5SJnEScR+7Mbllc5AlLJWeHg9f0Zd+84 bQ2vUnfpVdI/IRH64p4sXVRpYMjHS9OPQgmwl3VE0jYAfen8zJnIKR+obopfQJ9x dqx4orV7YCFCSqrXPBeeI39lpWrxuETXCBD1h5Z+7jn3QUW9NZoQB4yNrQ6gnZDO heiGqq29C8xi7FIrU973X0MY+UmzfLqfM1CdSEuwI5tZi0IUmEtaoArr/tiNz/s=3D =3DdsIp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ ctm-announce@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-announce To unsubscribe, send any mail to "ctm-announce-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" ________________________________ The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be sub= ject to legal privileges, may constitute inside information, and is intende= d only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of Abbott Laborator= ies or its relevant affiliate. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of t= his communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unl= awful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Abbo= tt Laboratories immediately by return e-mail and destroy this communication= and all copies thereof, including all attachments. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 03:46:20 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48ED59BD1F9; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 03:46:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Received: from vmmb.gunma-ct.ac.jp (ifw.gunma-ct.ac.jp [210.151.113.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14B48AD1; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 03:46:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Received: from abel.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (abel.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp [172.16.64.42]) by vmmb.gunma-ct.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D805141398; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:37:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from riemann.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (riemann [172.16.66.61]) by abel.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id t7J3Dg6X074763; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:13:42 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by riemann.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t7J3SMYh013986; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:28:22 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:28:22 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20150819.122822.193714783.kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp> To: ctm-users@freebsd.org, stephen@missouri.edu Cc: ctm-announce@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? From: Yasuhito KAMINAGA In-Reply-To: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> References: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.3 on Emacs 23.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 03:46:20 -0000 I need ctm at preesnt because our firewall is extremely restrictive and it has been prevented all protocols related to updating freebsd. I must confess that I do not try recent protocols for long times (ten years or so). Thus, the situation may be changed now. But ctm is undoubtedly a final method. I hope it be continued as an insurance. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 04:06:38 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6227E9BD90B for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:06:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) Received: from um-nip3-missouri-out.um.umsystem.edu (um-nip3-missouri-out.um.umsystem.edu [198.209.49.163]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "um-tip1.um.umsystem.edu", Issuer "InCommon RSA Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDDBDBB5 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:06:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2AfBQDK/9NV/8ieoM9dDoMNgUPDIoJYAoE6PBABAQEBAQEBgQqEJAEBBHgRAgEIGAkWDwkDAgECASAlAgQBDAgBAYgqzAABhQ8BCgEBAR6LU4RXOoQsBZUiAacaJoM/PoI5gQQBAQE X-IPAS-Result: A2AfBQDK/9NV/8ieoM9dDoMNgUPDIoJYAoE6PBABAQEBAQEBgQqEJAEBBHgRAgEIGAkWDwkDAgECASAlAgQBDAgBAYgqzAABhQ8BCgEBAR6LU4RXOoQsBZUiAacaJoM/PoI5gQQBAQE Received: from um-tcas3.um.umsystem.edu ([207.160.158.200]) by um-nip3-exch-relay.um.umsystem.edu with ESMTP; 18 Aug 2015 23:05:26 -0500 Received: from UM-MBX-N02.um.umsystem.edu ([169.254.5.65]) by UM-TCAS3.um.umsystem.edu ([207.160.158.200]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:05:26 -0500 From: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" To: Yasuhito KAMINAGA , "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Topic: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Index: AQHQ2iQthP2gW764skCeh9cepEWmp54S/bwAgAAKWoA= Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:05:26 +0000 Message-ID: <55D40085.4010907@missouri.edu> References: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> <20150819.122822.193714783.kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <20150819.122822.193714783.kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 x-originating-ip: [207.160.158.194] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:06:38 -0000 On 08/18/2015 10:28 PM, Yasuhito KAMINAGA wrote: > I need ctm at preesnt because our firewall=20 > is extremely restrictive and it has been=20 > prevented all protocols related to updating=20 > freebsd. I must confess that I do not try=20 > recent protocols for long times (ten years=20 > or so). Thus, the situation may be changed=20 > now. But ctm is undoubtedly a final method.=20 > I hope it be continued as an insurance.=20 >=20 >=20 Can you try to see if you can get svn to work? Another approach is that people could have a repository of svn at home, and then create deltas at home, and bring that to work, either by emailing it to themselves, or by taking it in on a flash drive. This can be achieved purely by using svnadmin dump (to create the deltas) and svnadmin load (to apply the deltas). The current mkCTM and ctm commands are merely wrappers to these commands when they handle svn-cur. (Most of the overhead is packaging it into the CTM structure, creating checksums, and compressing the data.) If this last approach is viable, I could provide a few more details of how to do this - maybe write some simple script.= From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 13:42:43 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903759BE582 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:42:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Andre.Albsmeier@siemens.com) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "david.siemens.de", Issuer "savelogs.saacon.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31F20337 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:42:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Andre.Albsmeier@siemens.com) Received: from mail1.siemens.de (mail1.siemens.de [139.23.33.14]) by david.siemens.de (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPS id t7JDOo9X011270 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:24:50 +0200 Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (curry.mchp.siemens.de [139.25.40.130]) by mail1.siemens.de (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTP id t7JDOocM019072; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:24:50 +0200 Received: (from user@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.14.9/8.14.9) id t7JDOoYg058167; Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:24:49 +0200 From: Andre Albsmeier To: Helge Oldach Cc: ctm-users@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Message-ID: <20150819132449.GA7363@bali> References: <55D40085.4010907@missouri.edu> <201508191301.t7JD1Gg5071319@sep.oldach.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201508191301.t7JD1Gg5071319@sep.oldach.net> X-Echelon: X-Advice: Drop that crappy M$-Outlook, I'm tired of your viruses! User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:42:43 -0000 On Wed, 19-Aug-2015 at 15:01:16 +0200, Helge Oldach wrote: > Wed Aug 19 02:11:23 UTC 2015: > > I just received an email from one of the FreeBSD people telling me > > that they are worried about the security threat posed by CTM. They > > would like to disconnect it from the base FreeBSD system. > > > > Personally I have become extremely happy with using subversion, and if > > CTM were to disappear, I could live without it very easily. > > The main benefit of CTM is that it requires much less disk space than subversion, as subversion stores almost the same amount of meta data (.svn/pristine directory) on disk as is needed for the tree itself, while with CTM you just have the tree and nothing else. Same here. My stuff lives on old SCSI disks (probably not as old as CTM, but close to ;-)). And if these disks fail, I've got some more ;-). CTM is small. It's lightweight. It works. No fat connection to the outside world needed. I don't know which security threats CTM poses but apparently there must be some. However, I never had problems with them ;-). And I can't see how it will be more secure if CTM or its mailinglist isn't hosted on FreeBSD servers anymore but somewhere else. I'd like to see CTM to continue to exist but as I can't supply a server or a mailinglist I just have to wait and see what will happen... Thanks for keeping CTM alive -- and if not, thanks for having supported it for such a long time. But if it must die, please give us a few weeks so we can establish some subversion infrastructure... -Andre > > Kind regards > Helge > _______________________________________________ > ctm-users@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-users > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "ctm-users-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- UNIX is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, Windows is a shell, and DOS is a bootsector virus. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 15:23:26 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49DB9BCD91 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:23:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Received: from vmmb.gunma-ct.ac.jp (ifw.gunma-ct.ac.jp [210.151.113.98]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F68889D for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:23:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Received: from abel.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (abel.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp [172.16.64.42]) by vmmb.gunma-ct.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B4541398; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:23:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from riemann.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (riemann [172.16.66.61]) by abel.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id t7JExQ6X076611; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:59:26 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by riemann.nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t7JFE4Km015521; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:14:04 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:14:04 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20150820.001404.104049290.kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp> To: stephen@missouri.edu Cc: ctm-users@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? From: Yasuhito KAMINAGA In-Reply-To: <55D40085.4010907@missouri.edu> References: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> <20150819.122822.193714783.kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp> <55D40085.4010907@missouri.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.3 on Emacs 23.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:23:26 -0000 Thank you Stephen kindly for the advice. Unfortunately, I'm now busy and have no time to try svn. If the majority of the subscribers of ctm-users agree to closing ctm and you believe it is the best way, then I respect the opinion. ***************** From: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:05:26 +0000 Message-ID: <55D40085.4010907@missouri.edu> > Can you try to see if you can get svn to work? > > Another approach is that people could have a repository of svn at home, > and then create deltas at home, and bring that to work, either by > emailing it to themselves, or by taking it in on a flash drive. > > This can be achieved purely by using svnadmin dump (to create the > deltas) and svnadmin load (to apply the deltas). The current mkCTM and > ctm commands are merely wrappers to these commands when they handle > svn-cur. (Most of the overhead is packaging it into the CTM structure, > creating checksums, and compressing the data.) > > If this last approach is viable, I could provide a few more details of > how to do this - maybe write some simple script. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 16:41:28 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C3E9BE192 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:41:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A14B1F7A for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:41:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5083C60E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.131.198.14]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t7JFpI8G001911; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:51:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id t7JFmGa3046800; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:48:16 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t7JFljKD051122; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:48:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201508191548.t7JFljKD051122@fire.js.berklix.net> To: stephen@missouri.edu, ctm-users@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:14:04 +0900." <20150820.001404.104049290.kaminaga@nat.gunma-ct.ac.jp> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:47:45 +0200 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:41:28 -0000 I am Against killing CTM. (I was drafting reply when my X11 crashed so proper reply in a bit.) Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Linux Unix C Sys Eng Consultant Munich http://berklix.com Reply after previous text, like a play - Not before, which looses context. Indent previous text with "> " Insert new lines before 80 chars. Send plain text, Not quoted-printable, Not HTML, Not ms.doc, Not base64. Subsidise contraception V. Global warming, pollution, famine, migration. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Wed Aug 19 23:34:29 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD869BDC6E for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:34:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) Received: from mst-rip5-missouri-out.um.umsystem.edu (mst-rip5-missouri-out.um.umsystem.edu [198.209.50.135]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "um-tip1.um.umsystem.edu", Issuer "InCommon RSA Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C36D1B44 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:34:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2ACBQDBEdVV/9SeoM9dFoMFVG+/X4V/AoE8PBABAQEBAQEBfwuEJAEBBG4bAgEIGAklDwIhJQIEDQgBAYgqDcl7AYU7i1OEJxEBBhg6hCwFlSQBhQOJM5R/g2gmgg0dgVOBfzqBBAEBAQ X-IPAS-Result: A2ACBQDBEdVV/9SeoM9dFoMFVG+/X4V/AoE8PBABAQEBAQEBfwuEJAEBBG4bAgEIGAklDwIhJQIEDQgBAYgqDcl7AYU7i1OEJxEBBhg6hCwFlSQBhQOJM5R/g2gmgg0dgVOBfzqBBAEBAQ Received: from um-ncas6.um.umsystem.edu ([207.160.158.212]) by mst-rip5-exch-relay.um.umsystem.edu with ESMTP; 19 Aug 2015 18:33:16 -0500 Received: from UM-MBX-N02.um.umsystem.edu ([169.254.5.65]) by UM-NCAS6.um.umsystem.edu ([207.160.158.212]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:33:16 -0500 From: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" To: "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Topic: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Index: AQHQ2iQthP2gW764skCeh9cepEWmp54UTl8A Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:33:15 +0000 Message-ID: <55D5123A.50407@missouri.edu> References: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> In-Reply-To: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 x-originating-ip: [207.160.158.194] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <08F43A454D56DE49B8B78D7E569427C5@missouri.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:34:29 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/18/2015 09:10 PM, Montgomery-Smith, Stephen wrote: > I just received an email from one of the FreeBSD people telling me=20 > that they are worried about the security threat posed by CTM. > They would like to disconnect it from the base FreeBSD system. >=20 > Personally I have become extremely happy with using subversion, and > if CTM were to disappear, I could live without it very easily. >=20 > But maybe some of you feel differently. One thing we could do is=20 > 1. Create a CTM port; 2. Put the deltas on a server other than > official FreeBSD servers; 3. Host our own mailing lists. >=20 > Honestly, I think the best thing to do is to close CTM. But if > anyone else really wants CTM, and is willing to do (2) and (3), I > can easily do (1). 1. One thing I can do is to keep the CTM deltas being generated, and keep the following web page open: http://web.missouri.edu/~stephen/CTM/ The only thing I cannot store are the svn-cur xEmpty files, because I haven't been given enough space. I cannot maintain any kind of mailing list. Also, since this web space belongs to the University of Missouri, they might take it down some day. 2. I am sympathetic to the security concerns. Having seen the recent security advisories, it seems to me that no-one can predict how some odd bit of code on the side will one day become a problem. And I think to do a full audit of the ctm code would be a lot of work. If we disconnect CTM from the FreeBSD project, and run it privately from the side, then it doesn't decrease our security problems. But it does decrease FreeBSD's potential security problems. And if the CTM code gets hit by some weird virus (e.g. a forged email sending a delta that lays your computers open to the world), the FreeBSD project won't then get embarrassed. 3. I'm not so sympathetic to the issue of how much space the svn repository takes. Disk space is so cheap these days. But presumably people who are concerned over that issue don't need the svn-cur CTM deltas, and only want ports-cur or src-*. Then what I offer in point (1) should be satisfactory. Stephen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQEbBAEBAgAGBQJV1RI6AAoJEC3xK9GaktgHDIsH9RXTHPC7ZUYpJMk8dljgYyEf Kl3KE/GetSAbrB2H32lX6w+J7h3E/Ly48CMRzKRcSX4AT6z+6PAW4OzlyXaS0nav FN8cJDCyFcy9v+BElpn2iv68E3UYzcof16BvtoMNUnV70XGq8QX3wWGPjD0c2opK JxuHSCr86PUZNd9UmXSv4TUMC06w05HHp5xLI0TATH+NEOJ3S6qw7NhZUCaYfd9e AJY7AH46sP42SnPL4sWNStsZVrIvfSUVJiv2bKRzrmnLkyznkzgHOuEX9t+zWKHF CaG8vDeu3CmL/XnEOZvuyf0cMUoUFSn3t7UyWqNCoZdzG7Omw85VJLnKo6mkmQ=3D=3D =3D1FMR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----= From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Thu Aug 20 04:47:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07849BECE8 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 04:47:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Andre.Albsmeier@siemens.com) Received: from david.siemens.de (david.siemens.de [192.35.17.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "david.siemens.de", Issuer "savelogs.saacon.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82EA1C26 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 04:47:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Andre.Albsmeier@siemens.com) Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by david.siemens.de (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPS id t7K4lmtf017644 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:47:48 +0200 Received: from curry.mchp.siemens.de (curry.mchp.siemens.de [139.25.40.130]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTP id t7K4lmwp005213; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:47:48 +0200 Received: (from user@localhost) by curry.mchp.siemens.de (8.14.9/8.14.9) id t7K4lmpm060749; Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:47:47 +0200 From: Andre Albsmeier To: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" Cc: "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Message-ID: <20150820044747.GB18686@bali> References: <55D3E582.2030908@missouri.edu> <55D5123A.50407@missouri.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55D5123A.50407@missouri.edu> X-Echelon: X-Advice: Drop that crappy M$-Outlook, I'm tired of your viruses! User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 04:47:52 -0000 On Wed, 19-Aug-2015 at 23:33:15 +0000, Montgomery-Smith, Stephen wrote: > On 08/18/2015 09:10 PM, Montgomery-Smith, Stephen wrote: > > I just received an email from one of the FreeBSD people telling me > > that they are worried about the security threat posed by CTM. > > They would like to disconnect it from the base FreeBSD system. > > > > Personally I have become extremely happy with using subversion, and > > if CTM were to disappear, I could live without it very easily. > > > > But maybe some of you feel differently. One thing we could do is > > 1. Create a CTM port; 2. Put the deltas on a server other than > > official FreeBSD servers; 3. Host our own mailing lists. > > > > Honestly, I think the best thing to do is to close CTM. But if > > anyone else really wants CTM, and is willing to do (2) and (3), I > > can easily do (1). > > 1. One thing I can do is to keep the CTM deltas being generated, and > keep the following web page open: http://web.missouri.edu/~stephen/CTM/ > The only thing I cannot store are the svn-cur xEmpty files, because I I personally could live with that perfectly. > haven't been given enough space. I cannot maintain any kind of > mailing list. Also, since this web space belongs to the University of > Missouri, they might take it down some day. So one would have to check this web page to get the latest deltas? Well, that's fine as well. > > 2. I am sympathetic to the security concerns. Having seen the recent > security advisories, it seems to me that no-one can predict how some > odd bit of code on the side will one day become a problem. And I > think to do a full audit of the ctm code would be a lot of work. > > If we disconnect CTM from the FreeBSD project, and run it privately > from the side, then it doesn't decrease our security problems. But it > does decrease FreeBSD's potential security problems. And if the CTM > code gets hit by some weird virus (e.g. a forged email sending a delta > that lays your computers open to the world), the FreeBSD project won't > then get embarrassed. OK. Again fine for me. > > 3. I'm not so sympathetic to the issue of how much space the svn > repository takes. Disk space is so cheap these days. But presumably Right. But there are machines where you can't simply plug in a 2 TB SATA drive -- no matter if it costs 10 or 100 Euros. And if you have got several of these, you really start to love CTM ;-) -Andre > people who are concerned over that issue don't need the svn-cur CTM > deltas, and only want ports-cur or src-*. Then what I offer in point > (1) should be satisfactory. > > Stephen > _______________________________________________ > ctm-users@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-users > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "ctm-users-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Jeder Projektmanager, der glaubt, Projekte zu managen, der glaubt auch, dass Zitronenfalter Zitronen falten. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Thu Aug 20 12:01:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89E49BEC55 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:01:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33A3A9B for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:01:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FE9E31.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.254.158.49]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t7KC4Rpm096122; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:04:27 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id t7KC1LXx051988; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:01:21 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t7KC13pd060715; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:01:15 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201508201201.t7KC13pd060715@fire.js.berklix.net> to: "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:05:26 -0000." <55D40085.4010907@missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:01:03 +0200 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:01:28 -0000 Hi, Reference: > To: "ctm-announce@FreeBSD.org" > From: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:05:26 +0000 > > I just received an email from one of the FreeBSD people telling me > that they are worried about the security threat posed by CTM. They > would like to disconnect it from the base FreeBSD system. If someone wants to axe CTM, we should Not acquiesce without examining Why. Periodicaly people wish to rip stuff out of FreeBSD src/; the phenomena repeatedly causes un-necessary agravation. Some previously haven't been mature enough to recognise one man's junk is another man's valued functionality, some past axers have had to back off. Reasons/excuses to rip stuff out of src/ sometimes include eg size (but usr.sbin/ctm is just 300K) & architectural complications with kernel & libs (but this is just a user prog). If an axer asserts there's a security issue, original author phk@ may be interested. may also be interested to fix it, but axe propenet has Not provided us detail. The axer proponent should present detail direct to us . In particular: - Does the axer mean a threat to ctm_smail generator machines ? If so: What threat ? Detail required by Stephen & I. 'Cos it's Stephen's generator host, not an @freebsd.org cluster server, & years back I gave Stephen facilities on my berklix.org FreeBSD server as fallback, still available if needed. - Does the axer mean a threat to @freebsd.org cluster servers ? If so How ? What ? That's just a mirrored tree & mail servers for deltas. - Does the axer mean a threat to ctm_rmail recipients that recompile & run ? If so, we want detail, But axers deserve no say re. CTM usage by recipient, that is a judgement call Exclusively for recipient users alone to weigh any risk versus utility & efficiency of use. > Personally I have become extremely happy with using subversion, and if > CTM were to disappear, I could live without it very easily. Doesn't suprise me Stephen, as you are our kind maintainer, the man who bridges svn to ctm so you must know both, it us who benefit from CTM, not you, thanks for your work :-) Actually I'm currently using both, eg CTM update of svn-cur, src-[0-9][0-9] & ports but also svn co -q file:///usr/svn/base/head (& file:///usr/svn/ports/head) for testing current patches (can't remember detail, been away) I do Not want to see CTM dissapear, & most certainly not for svn-cur ! Its very useful Push technology - transfer is batched & queued for maximaly convenient & cheap connectivity, using minimum time from fast local SMTP queues, no reliance on Pull technology from remote SVN servers. Others also pointed out SVN trees are Big. > But maybe some of you feel differently. One thing we could do is > 1. Create a CTM port; > 2. Put the deltas on a server other than official FreeBSD servers; > 3. Host our own mailing lists. > > Honestly, I think the best thing to do is to close CTM. But if anyone > else really wants CTM, and is willing to do (2) and (3), I can easily > do (1). Re. 1) If the unknown axer proponent makes a persuasive case for CTM removal, then it would be nice if you created a port. I wouldn't bother yet. Let him/them justify to us, motivation to axe CTM. Re. 2) My berklix.org server is available but I'd want it mirrored so it didnt take global load. I see no need. The tree is no risk to @freebsd.org ftp servers, & they have mirroring set up, pointless to reinvent the wheel. Re. 3) berklix.org runs majordomo@ not yet a mailman, If I had to, I could create CTM mail lists on berklix, but I dont want to waste the time on that, as I should migrate berklix from majordomo to mailman. Also there's No security risk to @freebsd.org servers in mailing ctm deltas, no reason to move. Kirby, Mark wrote > I would not have any issue if CTM was disabled. A non sequitur. He will leave list. Lists of CTM users will include ctm-users@ + delta subscribers addresses. Though the delta addresses will differ in some cases, eg some will not respond to a "Do you still need this" post, as some will be procmail + ctm_rmail auto discarding non valid deltas. Summary: CTM should Not be axed. No one has even presented reasons to examine. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Linux Unix C Sys Eng Consultant Munich http://berklix.com Reply after previous text, like a play - Not before, which looses context. Indent previous text with "> " Insert new lines before 80 chars. Send plain text, Not quoted-printable, Not HTML, Not ms.doc, Not base64. Subsidise contraception V. Global warming, pollution, famine, migration. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Thu Aug 20 13:10:34 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC3D9BE0C8 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:10:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFC61FEC for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:10:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5083C57A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.131.197.122]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t7KDDZ73096790; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:13:35 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id t7KDATYb052529; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:10:29 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t7KDABxG087519; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:10:23 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201508201310.t7KDABxG087519@fire.js.berklix.net> To: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" cc: "CTM Users" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:07:58 +0200." Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:10:11 +0200 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:10:34 -0000 Oops, re-sent as I omitted CC: "CTM Users" Hi Stephen > The only thing I cannot store are the svn-cur xEmpty files, because I > haven't been given enough space. My internet server ctm.berklix.org has space. http://www.berklix.org/ctm/ But first please tell axe proponents to propose their case direct to "CTM Users" Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Linux Unix C Sys Eng Consultant Munich http://berklix.com Reply after previous text, like a play - Not before, which looses context. Indent previous text with "> " Insert new lines before 80 chars. Send plain text, Not quoted-printable, Not HTML, Not ms.doc, Not base64. Subsidise contraception V. Global warming, pollution, famine, migration. From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Thu Aug 20 20:32:57 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954609BF31F for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:32:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ike@blackskyresearch.net) Received: from rs149.luxsci.com (rs149.luxsci.com [64.49.224.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 602B2CC7 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:32:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ike@blackskyresearch.net) Received: from rs149.luxsci.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rs149.luxsci.com (8.14.4/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t7KKQqnC003517; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:27:00 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by rs149.luxsci.com (8.14.4/8.14.9/Submit) id t7KKQMCe002774; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:26:22 GMT Received: (from sender 74627) (rs149.luxsci.com [127.0.0.1]) by LuxSci SP; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:26:06 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? From: "Isaac (.ike) Levy" In-Reply-To: <201508201537.t7KFbdnd002206@sep.oldach.net> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:25:16 -0400 Cc: ctm-users@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <201508201537.t7KFbdnd002206@sep.oldach.net> To: Helge Oldach X-Lux-Comment: Message t7KKPGB2001462 sent by user #74627 Message-Id: <1440102382-5935549.7941101.ft7KKPGB2001462@rs149.luxsci.com> X-Comment: LuxSci SP Message ID - 1440102382-5935549.7941101 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:32:57 -0000 Hi, > On Aug 20, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Helge Oldach wrote: > Roman Kurakin wrote on Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:04:52 +0200 (CEST): >> On 08/20/2015 03:59 PM, Helge Oldach wrote: >>> Julian H. Stacey wrote on Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:01:03 +0200 (CEST): >>>> If an axer asserts >>>> there's a security issue, original author phk@ may be interested. >>>> may also be interested to fix it, but >>>> axe propenet has Not provided us detail. >>> I suspects it's related to a potential MITM threat: Both = freebsd-update as well as svn deliver mechanisms to detect such attacks = and refuse to update. CTM doesn't - actually it's fairly easy to tamper = with deltas shipped by unencrypted e-mail. (No, md5 sums don't help.) >> So, signing emails would be enough? >=20 > IMHO signing e-mails is the easy part. >=20 > On the e-mail receiver side you actually want something similar to = "certificate pinning" to get the same level of confidentiality as = freebsd-update or svn (through https) deliver. That would involve quite = a bit of hacking the CTM receiver I guess. >=20 > But CTM deltas are also available through http(s) and ftp and mirrored = to a lot of sites. How do we deal with the confidentialty issue here = without losing functionality? Again quite a bit of hacking I think. >=20 > Note I am still just guessing about the security issues mentioned. = Maybe they are actually different. >=20 > Regards, > Helge I'm also not aware of the actual security issues raised, yet I believe = CTM is not rendered completely useless because of the plain-text nature = of the distribution. As far as security goes, I'm a firm supporter of diversity above any = monoculture- even when diversity means unsigned or unencrypted = transmission. For that alone, I'd be very sad to see CTM go. -- Additionally, one small idea: instead of signing all emails, is there = any way to leverage mtree(8) files signed by a trusted source, which = people could use to validate the sources after CTM patches have been = applied? The mtree(8) digests could be signed with simple utilities = like OpenBSD's signify(1), or some other similar mechanism which works = from seeding trust. Just a thought, trying to reduce the need to = re-work the existing CTM machinery. Best, .ike From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Fri Aug 21 00:52:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088689BE09A for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:52:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rik@inse.ru) Received: from ns.rikbsd.org (mail.ptechlab.com [77.220.135.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C98F26 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:52:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rik@inse.ru) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mgate.rikbsd.org [192.168.2.3]) by ns.rikbsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3436120DC0E; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:57:39 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <55D5D074.4030301@inse.ru> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:04:52 +0300 From: Roman Kurakin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Helge Oldach , ctm-users@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? References: <201508201259.t7KCxSUd006343@sep.oldach.net> In-Reply-To: <201508201259.t7KCxSUd006343@sep.oldach.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:52:27 -0000 Hi, On 08/20/2015 03:59 PM, Helge Oldach wrote: > Hi, > > (Sorry for the noise.) > > Julian H. Stacey wrote on Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:01:03 +0200 (CEST): >> If an axer asserts >> there's a security issue, original author phk@ may be interested. >> may also be interested to fix it, but >> axe propenet has Not provided us detail. > I suspects it's related to a potential MITM threat: Both freebsd-update as well as svn deliver mechanisms to detect such attacks and refuse to update. CTM doesn't - actually it's fairly easy to tamper with deltas shipped by unencrypted e-mail. (No, md5 sums don't help.) So, signing emails would be enough? Best regards, rik > [...] > > Regards, > Helge > _______________________________________________ > ctm-users@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-users > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "ctm-users-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Fri Aug 21 02:46:51 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5BC9BE274 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:46:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) Received: from mst-rip5-missouri-out.um.umsystem.edu (mst-rip5-missouri-out.um.umsystem.edu [198.209.50.135]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "um-tip1.um.umsystem.edu", Issuer "InCommon RSA Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CD4C1D02 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:46:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stephen@missouri.edu) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2AMBQCAkNZV/9SeoM9cAYMbVGkGv0uGAwKBQDwQAQEBAQEBAX8LhCMBAQEEDlcHAQsRAgEIFAEDCRACBA8JAwIBAgEgJQIECgMGAgEBiCrKVAGFDyyLU4QnEAIBBRg6KAGEAwWVKQGFBIk0Ro96hEiDaSaDfXGBSIEEAQEB X-IPAS-Result: A2AMBQCAkNZV/9SeoM9cAYMbVGkGv0uGAwKBQDwQAQEBAQEBAX8LhCMBAQEEDlcHAQsRAgEIFAEDCRACBA8JAwIBAgEgJQIECgMGAgEBiCrKVAGFDyyLU4QnEAIBBRg6KAGEAwWVKQGFBIk0Ro96hEiDaSaDfXGBSIEEAQEB Received: from um-ncas6.um.umsystem.edu ([207.160.158.212]) by mst-rip5-exch-relay.um.umsystem.edu with ESMTP; 20 Aug 2015 21:46:42 -0500 Received: from UM-MBX-N02.um.umsystem.edu ([169.254.5.65]) by UM-NCAS6.um.umsystem.edu ([207.160.158.212]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:46:42 -0500 From: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" To: "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Topic: Do you still need CTM? Thread-Index: AQHQ2z/ihP2gW764skCeh9cepEWmp54WFImA Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:46:42 +0000 Message-ID: <55D69111.4050901@missouri.edu> References: <201508201201.t7KC13pd060715@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201508201201.t7KC13pd060715@fire.js.berklix.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0 x-originating-ip: [207.160.158.194] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:46:51 -0000 On 08/20/2015 07:01 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, Reference: >> To: "ctm-announce@FreeBSD.org" >> From: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" >> Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 04:05:26 +0000 >> >> I just received an email from one of the FreeBSD people telling me >> that they are worried about the security threat posed by CTM. They >> would like to disconnect it from the base FreeBSD system. >=20 > If someone wants to axe CTM, we should Not acquiesce without examining Wh= y. > Periodicaly people wish to rip stuff out of FreeBSD src/; the > phenomena repeatedly causes un-necessary agravation. Some previously > haven't been mature enough to recognise one man's junk is another > man's valued functionality, some past axers have had to back off. >=20 > Reasons/excuses to rip stuff out of src/ sometimes include eg size > (but usr.sbin/ctm is just 300K) & architectural complications with > kernel & libs (but this is just a user prog). If an axer asserts > there's a security issue, original author phk@ may be interested. > may also be interested to fix it, but=20 > axe propenet has Not provided us detail. >=20 > The axer proponent should present detail direct to us . > In particular: > - Does the axer mean a threat to ctm_smail generator machines ? > If so: What threat ? Detail required by Stephen & I. 'Cos it's > Stephen's generator host, not an @freebsd.org cluster server, > & years back I gave Stephen facilities on my berklix.org FreeBSD serv= er > as fallback, still available if needed. > - Does the axer mean a threat to @freebsd.org cluster servers ? > If so How ? What ? That's just a mirrored tree & mail servers for del= tas. > - Does the axer mean a threat to ctm_rmail recipients that recompile & = run ? > If so, we want detail, But axers deserve no say re. CTM usage > by recipient, that is a judgement call Exclusively for recipient > users alone to weigh any risk versus utility & efficiency of use. >=20 >=20 >> Personally I have become extremely happy with using subversion, and if >> CTM were to disappear, I could live without it very easily. >=20 > Doesn't suprise me Stephen, as you are our kind maintainer, the man > who bridges svn to ctm so you must know both, it us who benefit from CTM, > not you, thanks for your work :-) >=20 > Actually I'm currently using both, eg > CTM update of svn-cur, src-[0-9][0-9] & ports but also > svn co -q file:///usr/svn/base/head (& file:///usr/svn/ports/head) > for testing current patches (can't remember detail, been away) >=20 > I do Not want to see CTM dissapear, & most certainly not for svn-cur ! > Its very useful Push technology - transfer is batched & queued for maxima= ly > convenient & cheap connectivity, using minimum time from fast local SMTP > queues, no reliance on Pull technology from remote SVN servers. >=20 > Others also pointed out SVN trees are Big. I don't think it is necessary for people to come up with explicit security risks before questioning the riskiness of CTM. The whole point of security risks is that we don't know they exist before someone finds them. Otherwise we would have plugged the risk. It looks like very few people use CTM - I'm going to guess a grand total of 10 or 20 people worldwide. This has two consequences: 1. Because so few people use it, there are not many eyes looking at the code. So the code doesn't get audited very much. 2. Each piece of code in the base system has to balance its riskiness against its usefulness. If only a very few people use a particular program, then the corresponding thresh-hold of riskiness should be similarly low. I really do agree with the person from FreeBSD central who emailed me. I think we should move CTM away from the FreeBSD base. If someone else disagrees with me, then they should take it over, and then argue their case directly with the FreeBSD project. There is another consequence of there being so few people who use it. We have to weigh the costs of creating and maintaining CTM against the benefits to a few people around the world, each of whom could presumably find a different way to solve their particular problem if they had to. Right now, maintaining CTM is relatively easy for me. And to be honest, it has brought me a lot of benefits in gaining experience of writing additional code, or learning a bit about tcl and other scripting languages. As long as the work load stays relatively the same, I see no major personal cost in maintaining it. And I am happy to keep it going to help those handful of people around the world who get benefit from it. But if, for example, the University of Missouri took away the virtual computer I use to generate CTMs, or they insist on a major redesign of web pages they host for "branding" reasons, then I'll really have to think seriously about giving it up.= From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Sat Aug 22 07:32:05 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74BD09BE8B0 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 07:32:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aehlig@linta.de) Received: from linta.de (isilmar-3.linta.de [188.40.101.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBEE71A98 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 07:32:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aehlig@linta.de) Received: (qmail 12503 invoked by uid 10); 22 Aug 2015 07:25:20 -0000 Received: from hilbert.linta.de by isilmar.linta.de with BSMTP; 22 Aug 2015 07:25:20 -0000 Received: by hilbert.linta.de (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6B288AB86EA; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 09:25:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 09:25:11 +0200 From: "Klaus T. Aehlig" To: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" Cc: "ctm-users@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? Message-ID: <20150822072510.GB2813@hilbert.linta.de> References: <201508201201.t7KC13pd060715@fire.js.berklix.net> <55D69111.4050901@missouri.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55D69111.4050901@missouri.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 07:32:05 -0000 Hi, just to get the count right: I'm another happy user of ctm and would be very sad if CTM went away. Thanks for providing such a valuable service. > I really do agree with the person from FreeBSD central who emailed me. > I think we should move CTM away from the FreeBSD base. If someone else > disagrees with me, then they should take it over, and then argue their > case directly with the FreeBSD project. If the only change is that ctm will have to be installed from ports rather than from base, then I do not see a big problem with this, if the signed emails continue to flow. Also, when preparing the port, it might be a good idea to prepare an additional port providing everything needed to generate deltas and emails yourself so that others can take over easily... > Right now, maintaining CTM is relatively easy for me. And to be honest, > it has brought me a lot of benefits in gaining experience of writing > additional code, or learning a bit about tcl and other scripting > languages. As long as the work load stays relatively the same, I see no > major personal cost in maintaining it. And I am happy to keep it going > to help those handful of people around the world who get benefit from it. > > But if, for example, the University of Missouri took away the virtual > computer I use to generate CTMs, or they insist on a major redesign of > web pages they host for "branding" reasons, then I'll really have to > think seriously about giving it up. ...should anything happen to your setup at the University of Missouri. (Take over either for the whole CTM community, or just for themselfs generating deltas on their well-connected machine to serve their own hardly reachable ones.) Thanks again for your service to all CTM users, Klaus From owner-ctm-users@freebsd.org Sat Aug 22 13:39:35 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: ctm-users@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA96B9BD9EC for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:39:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D92F1647 for ; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:39:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p5083CC5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.131.204.95]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t7MDgVtG096273; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 15:42:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id t7MDdPBn065046; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 15:39:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t7MDd7Pc019633; Sat, 22 Aug 2015 15:39:19 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201508221339.t7MDd7Pc019633@fire.js.berklix.net> to: "Montgomery-Smith, Stephen" cc: ctm-users@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do you still need CTM? From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-URL: http://www.berklix.com In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 21 Aug 2015 02:46:42 -0000." <55D69111.4050901@missouri.edu> Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 15:39:07 +0200 X-BeenThere: ctm-users@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CTM User discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:39:35 -0000 Hi Stephen, cc ctm-users@ > I really do agree with the person from FreeBSD central who emailed me. Proxy presenting views of an anonymous correspondent who fails to direct address caused speculation on anonymous's guessed concerns, wasted time & created FUD. Better to tell any anonymous to { Read http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/ctm-users/ Then address ctm-users@freebsd.org , preferably with code enhancements }. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Linux Unix C Sys Eng Consultant Munich http://berklix.com Reply after previous text, like a play - Not before, which looses context. Indent previous text with "> " Insert new lines before 80 chars. Send plain text, Not quoted-printable, Not HTML, Not ms.doc, Not base64. Subsidise contraception V. Global warming, pollution, famine, migration.