From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 21:34:57 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705EFDF0989; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:34:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 535026F569; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:34:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5436CCE4; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:34:55 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:34:54 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Cy Schubert Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com> References: <201711251918.vAPJI2IB072754@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201711251918.vAPJI2IB072754@slippy.cwsent.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:17:50 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 21:34:57 -0000 On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18:02AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > 1. Make fortune a port. A port for the "classical" fortunes file has already been added. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 23:03:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E5ADF2DF3; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36D757329E; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id g130so24026463wme.0; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FBoy13qzIjRSy6Fhb+v6gINBkKf20TLL1uWnNNYMm/k=; b=LW6F1Xw64lhdrzzv+2ZT4SOOae6Nzq82DSZfNW1c9dmr3r2+QXBlhR8cEvC7mpFrP+ Fw8LlzVBZQMQRGyKGqh4zhVLsgjo/h4ZWeOCreC965KFRbKA6er56mg6GSITuyAibgHz 3iHhRNqDK9RM4P0niDlofWFnR3zqMOM0BhRd/ej4WDDwtKiAYpTdeE62K5/rvUN30n4I tx6Lhs1xl1jVWg4FoS33cMnedd/Kr9dJpwBMrfFXYryERFqTm/y+fXTVR1b6gUEx+A23 VKEJ9bFxaRJvP3YkJB1g6M6XcDCIGJ0+vCTu5qGSgXyB/OlvthhG6YdgK9ZpOVSSkGVg 2jZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FBoy13qzIjRSy6Fhb+v6gINBkKf20TLL1uWnNNYMm/k=; b=VNWKbJUvp/9U/wR9mYFW9o3uFrt6hv1QbDXRcDt8NpWcoYuoFXgt/39xjw+lKzjhpq shaSNWv+qk/Gx8WjYHIAr0MjhXk+HnYt78asCaZhyJ1SnNe+BnZmEVkRN2BPD2WV22o6 YgyiVuEqxN0ziKozTUpQEkz2HbxUSRT4xmT/RcKV1oYuD7IdQiwGvnNv3K2udaV1I2jk ptzZ08Qhp4qLhdkOokZBQ5/9427mTR3KUQa4Pg4LJQ98+bLxWhaNKjifoe0aC+nRCVXx GCsemDbPxlCCT/fFTPHMtbapfitNwWBxtyXXEYkwx/ER27Gd/W9FTY0MGW9ZaD2VIJ0w 84Cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX71UXAxZShr+lseadxgb+BpOGffHF4K2aouH7YyyHi/TcK8hkSw Ry7IbmOi0qWGZN+LETdL02OdPaOR8IwVaDEBwe/K3w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZq7PvpFDjOBnqtHb2BqOWTPu8xgUI+FABF3ld7crHUO5PHJjcZUlTsQcMrEPjo4SJoEdX7GINEwLOUE44k4QA= X-Received: by 10.28.224.4 with SMTP id x4mr12379423wmg.118.1511651033552; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.213.131 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201711252216.vAPMGoM7075129@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com> <201711252216.vAPMGoM7075129@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:03:51 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Cy Schubert Cc: Cy Schubert , Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:18:49 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:03:56 -0000 On 25 November 2017 at 14:16, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <201711252206.vAPM6a0A060208@slippy.cwsent.com>, Cy Schubert > writes: >> In message <20171125213454.GA10490@lonesome.com>, Mark Linimon writes: >> > On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18:02AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: >> > > 1. Make fortune a port. >> > >> > A port for the "classical" fortunes file has already been added. >> >> Indeed, in bsdgames. Like really?! What's all the fuss about? Just nuke >> from base then. I have half a mind to just blow it away now and be done >> with all this nonsense. > > > Apologies for the frustration. While taking breaks from putting in new > electrical in this 104 year old house, my extreme frustration at the > plumbing and joists in my way to completing what should be a simple job is > spilling over on list. You and me both. Mmm lead paint, asbestos and knob/tube wiring tapped infinitely... -adrian From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 23:39:41 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0461DF381B; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5431F740E2; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id k61so23207906wrc.4; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sQ9mvzMlFim31DFRcNQLPWJoCh/PdXwe9YOEJzSNp64=; b=s74ahXxg65PSgn+RzRhzf5f9tvUo7aqcXX70CllTnFS35m6BPAAbanSvOdGeJwRdsV maJFdItsNRgVwIBwSPH/dJ9FYAHQGI9rBrbjOc/CNQISbQa93NSYJ+bCgGBm91TiYB2D 3mditpfDc8JOgAbVE3ceTd38hrRYFDGix9pLtQPAxHnSSmAlqroofzQKhLz1a6YVHaSa 4/AC9Kl7qkgtxJr7YZe8RfIxh6rIuVKW8Uc8UW6CDzY/JUuIydP3XNCesyHy6UkX7u3b Bc4uiXJN76EEvh/7qTLJ0K4iwQt7n4E/+aFOfu88+qmDyE/YX3pYqC44RY52/pkk/Vgn A2Lg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sQ9mvzMlFim31DFRcNQLPWJoCh/PdXwe9YOEJzSNp64=; b=DW5Ih84OJcg7C0LPtaf1Y0XSRJde1rvFHiWdY3l3xg17dp0+KwMceVR0PNNCSiZupg NG9Ne2AW+LNgA72LgSxkAw/VhZDZrMOOfeunhCQ1ZQJiLLTc47vUwM+fEhthmRGaukON 98xZ6cgis9Wg/qceLuIV8li4VaoXLI0TMyGgntLBSapLHvMbFVp38QR3OauW46kecnEO Gp6BF3gC8fnF9Jxulm2NKR417GEdH8V+76fOF6bfMUW1rbxvaELOogmKFQdr0ilovxix ktrlfw1MFfDtQSBPczGmQYE0tyM+eR9Gi/M5L+4AnHlmy4pn1YAafUtQC/7l6v3xJD98 3QAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7Vyd8iH7e2+AHQ9p5RuUliIIQzZIU/1b+BPKQKtMzFtvf+oN6A Gb8DJGQcQ6dyTo8hHMjFFpwljXQro6tUrW1uHgiS6g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbRjzvlgVx91oG8KkXecCv0r5WfgscWGWC7nuTynzINQ9PUKJ0GuYDGCml1B4GjOHQlwExgDtV6t9moO8WOCVk= X-Received: by 10.223.190.2 with SMTP id n2mr23026538wrh.44.1511653179720; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.213.131 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201711252321.vAPNLnhc025188@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201711252321.vAPNLnhc025188@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 15:39:37 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Cy Schubert Cc: Cy Schubert , Mark Linimon , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:19:21 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:39:41 -0000 On 25 November 2017 at 15:21, Cy Schubert wrote: >> Mmm lead paint, asbestos and knob/tube wiring tapped infinitely... > > Yuck. That is not fun. I should stop complaining and feeling miserable. :\ Nah, let it out. There's so much to do. Wait until I tell you about the carpets that had vinyl flooring underneath with wood floors under that, with what looks like someone's old oil fire... -a From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Nov 25 23:42:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33087DF3AEE; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:42:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 181C274560; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:42:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5FA011442; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 17:42:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 17:42:45 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Cy Schubert , Cy Schubert , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171125234245.GB10771@lonesome.com> References: <201711252321.vAPNLnhc025188@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:19:54 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 23:42:48 -0000 On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 03:39:37PM -0800, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Wait until I tell you about the carpets that had vinyl flooring > underneath with wood floors under that, with what looks like someone's > old oil fire... Wow. Not even _my_ house contains such horrors. Mark "now I have to figure out how my new hot weater heater was badly installed" Linimon From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 08:23:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F2CE4F3C9; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:23:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xxjack12xx@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBD903590; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:23:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xxjack12xx@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id r68so29356628wmr.1; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:23:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Nc3MI33kqhQk4ktQRv8xXWytmTz7RrZu92DOG7XlXcs=; b=S0mseIMyeLZFggIxySMbQdhtBYFUhJZbeSS9NdnompDbmaCJkmi4AmMzbZZJlrnF6s 6UzDGYH3q2u+/0ylENVjKbu90LETW3cnXcHrD8uftIN9cjp/fAJ5kCd64tu+sSaSmbkY 35PXix/hLsPcgdrAb4Mj7KLscOeT8acrEk/VkL5liP/QdN3mFd8fmjQD0NvTmMoVWILw 34GiXwabFq8Fsh7kmTe3LKOM6CRv0thAZoVqsQCydV5X1qpgvjFVSm9CWgcTE/+21sq5 5NPUtGmJRThocTAxHb2R/VByA5E45ULFBIRmKVgsXgeckx8HOH2LnBRqLWtY5JwMxl2Q WQlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Nc3MI33kqhQk4ktQRv8xXWytmTz7RrZu92DOG7XlXcs=; b=EfEf0Me1WPmN8QTfzJqPBfvwC30Vy0xgnjdCgpCwuUrZeW+7dMBkcKtPgyova2nrgS ccnPgmTVeRnhj2Oxqtyfb84A2qeiGVNLuETDwPA5edE898Bhku1EHwJVTs0nm9YgUhv4 DxwqqUVUW0Wso4zPKL1VeDFgWXOiL3hVlFS5IKCs9fumW20jtSJY0q/rj6NkEMW6eqZQ 8uJN6y8nsRkLIS2aBXNIPqM1z5Tvu+IEodoNXKKjqN5ktKmD9iM9eYB9m6irqyeTYh+u R6P9o5D+pGG78CwIXUCIH/e2m84QR44/Z0wUjrMvFt3YW4YLLVUOfj8WXNRDtL16a9fs lrFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4jRo2z3CsQxMQLf0hFafQZ+jfi9si1nOwUsQrIKBx2k1rwR8Fi p7FrgSvKvo797StI4YsqdiAjfcO1iKyiHPvjpb4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYasFeZL+QZtTbzWcdkSkjCA24K08yAmCI+GZ6StplKrN5XT04WvbQemW96/o+kMH/dW7wINJtzuTzMy6F4N64= X-Received: by 10.28.131.2 with SMTP id f2mr12848807wmd.137.1511684596575; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:23:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.143.97 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:22:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201711251918.vAPJI2IB072754@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201711251918.vAPJI2IB072754@slippy.cwsent.com> From: "Jack L." Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:22:35 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Cy Schubert Cc: Adrian Chadd , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:23:19 -0000 On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message mail.gmail.c > om> > , Adrian Chadd writes: > > hi, > > > > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable > bible > > . > > > > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. > > > > > > > > -adrian > > I see no reason why fortune(6) cannot be a port. Much of /usr/games (IIRC > that's where it was) has been gutted anyway and not only that but other > more functional parts of 4.4BSD have been culled and are simply gone. > > I think the way forward is: > > 1. Make fortune a port. > > 2. Whatever was in games and is in ports could be installed through a > bsd-games meta-port. > > People should realize that ports are just as valid as base. Not everything > should be in base. This will become truer once base is fully distributed as > packages. A monolithic base is so 1960s. Even the IBM mainframe I worked on > in the 1970s used packages (IBM called them FMIDs). Let's get on with the > 1970s and move it to ports/packages. > > > Yes! I've always been annoyed (in the past) with doing an rm -rf /usr/games in my new server installs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 14:29:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29223DE7621; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:29:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "land.berklix.org", Issuer "land.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5FDE6C468; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:29:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FA9D37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.250.157.55]) (authenticated bits=0) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAQES2q3087856 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:28:07 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id vAQET3Xv080874; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 15:29:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id vAQDmCqn000352; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:50:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201711261350.vAQDmCqn000352@fire.js.berklix.net> To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.eu BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.eu/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Sat, 25 Nov 2017 10:28:14 -0600." <20171125162814.GA9954@lonesome.com> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:48:12 +0100 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:29:17 -0000 Hi Hackers@ & Arch@ Mcl's long held animosity to me distracts. Better to consider ideas not by author, but on merit or otherwise, & maybe improve them. > Commit bits are a privilege. Contentious commits forced through > before discussion, should by policy be automaticaly reverted, > & committers bit suspended, pending committer peer review - Not with > reference to the desirability or otherwise of a commit, but for > imposing on FreeBSD without prior discussion. > > Commiter conduct reviews should be seperate from > discussion of desirability of a contentious commit. Cheers, Julian -- Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable. http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 16:14:08 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BDCEDEA9D0 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:14:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.baldwin.cx (bigwig.baldwin.cx [96.47.65.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AEA36F007; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:14:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@freebsd.org) Received: from ralph.baldwin.cx (c-73-231-226-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.231.226.104]) by mail.baldwin.cx (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8A3010A8BC; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 11:14:06 -0500 (EST) From: John Baldwin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, lidl@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 08:38:20 -0800 Message-ID: <7326690.xrhihQoxKt@ralph.baldwin.cx> User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/11.1-STABLE; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <6ba033f3-82ce-da58-1720-623fed180479@FreeBSD.org> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <6ba033f3-82ce-da58-1720-623fed180479@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (mail.baldwin.cx); Sun, 26 Nov 2017 11:14:06 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail.baldwin.cx X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:14:08 -0000 On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 03:01:17 PM Kurt Lidl wrote: > On 11/22/17 11:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two= paths we should take: > >=20 > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage f= rom the default .login/.profile files. > >=20 > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and ma= ke freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as /usr/share/ga= mes/fortune/fortunes. >=20 > Of these options, only #2 is approximately correct. >=20 > I think just leaving the code as-is, and symlinking the freebsd-tips = to > be the default fortune datafile is the correct course of action. >=20 > Removing the offensive flag handling dictates policy towards users > of the program. If someone wants to add their own offensive datafile= > to their system, the code ought to allow them to select it. Agreed. I think removing the default datfiles so that someone can main= tain a port is fine, but we should leave freebsd-tips and the tool. When the -o database was moved out of base we didn't remove the -o option, b= ut instead extended the tool to work with string files in /usr/local. The= current state is fine. The drama and lost time has always been about t= he 4BSD datfiles, never about freebsd-tips or the tool itself, so the issu= e is resolved. --=20 John Baldwin From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 16:15:00 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10755DEAAD8; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:15:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAA766F142; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:14:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id IzLWeb2HTGvLHIzLXeDRFw; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:59:58 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=a9pAzQaF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=Ikt0M2cxAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=nRw0MP0jAAAA:8 a=jRt0O2FX6Cl4r4fkbLcA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=iYm7J9qDpiSF5xNCBZUT:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=TqOS20DUQF7LHOIXzZmQ:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01451AA; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAQFxrDd049554; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAQFxqQD049551; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711261559.vAQFxqQD049551@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: "Julian H. Stacey" cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from "Julian H. Stacey" of "Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:48:12 +0100." <201711261350.vAQDmCqn000352@fire.js.berklix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJe+KsOqiBNHFuHPBX+x70Qcyy8RcPT/BoA7zUR6yzKTd+Uoow1RjI2eMMRMZsb8qISS7tYGRe2LZtmYDl+t2bmxqdxYCcSR5cNYIEX9SbKHhyeW6w3Y Gh87wes/c6PveVfFOemHtbJHJJ8Wo5fgJ1Vrbr+2HRo8BHCT5u2ZBu1/Mg0kdChNYrf6Kv2bFX9tpeNPwovftp/0ul2lDxci23QnLNRXHYX2Oabn3CNfkar5 jpouY4V+3dPMQShCyMZIAg== X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:15:00 -0000 In message <201711261350.vAQDmCqn000352@fire.js.berklix.net>, "Julian H. Stacey " writes: > Hi Hackers@ & Arch@ > Mcl's long held animosity to me distracts. Better to consider ideas > not by author, but on merit or otherwise, & maybe improve them. I think you might be reading too much into it. To bring this on topic. Fortune needs to go. The process to remove it has commenced and will after review be implemented. Why? Games should be, if anywhere, in ports. Take for example what Red Hat has done. There are no games in Red Hat 6. Sure you might find some in EPL. And as of RHEL 7, absolutely nothing. I suspect that they've made the choice to avoid problems like this. We should do likewise. I would fully support removal of games from ports as well but I might tolerate them there -- why if I install gnome or kde do I want to give up MB or GB of precious disk to games? This is 2017. I really don't understand why there is so much angst about this. Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old grandkids play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs. Fortune in base is totally indefensible and for that matter even in ports it is. It absolutely has to go. I fully support Benno's effort. To repeat: To say that mcl has animosity toward you is really unfair. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > > > Commit bits are a privilege. Contentious commits forced through > > before discussion, should by policy be automaticaly reverted, > > & committers bit suspended, pending committer peer review - Not with > > reference to the desirability or otherwise of a commit, but for > > imposing on FreeBSD without prior discussion. > > > > Commiter conduct reviews should be seperate from > > discussion of desirability of a contentious commit. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munic > h > Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printabl > e. > http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU > . > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 16:33:05 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA28DEB17C for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:33:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x242.google.com (mail-wm0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A65746FA0D for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:33:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x242.google.com with SMTP id u83so29997149wmb.5 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:33:04 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=R6ujw0Xgy0XzpDtbW8QYyNjJJTPV9F3dToGZZ0r0I/8=; b=U/ZelREe0JzVJ2ZmLt1guMlm0vj1JRgrQ+L23Ayj82E2+E192y2Cx8s7BY2f8j3bd2 NQd5qSGSuPOtjW6cnG0TG0trGzFvbyXkZr7G3v6E1D2e0FerX+uWnFoYeDD7Nuvwcvcw DbyQ3arsAi7tyB6wDeYh+iVOybNz8CTsfNKwsgDQ1MQshJadJy4KPDaXsiD7HAgHXmcG +4o7YbJhuKSoNL9GOqRBELHQuyi9Ix0AbMEpZxyTQoaxm+A/0wqgC96dk9ke/oA7GBZm y2eAHobo5sukMEdUvluCdyfdlMlxaPtPxc8xxB4rwpaWPqg9NzARGZXFTgCFMA/Orjbx ZyPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4Ho+tu2txnkxq2iiOur5Ju/VdZk3061hTklfIR26SjCEDx5mpk 6rqRM0LB9bBh6yLI3MPBAqMboA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMagWwLRf2zVL1kjbxpml86/SAsqqP+Fl2gbfLpJpw3irTiA3V9lFxJM7a/W8/sbHDpH9LDgow== X-Received: by 10.80.205.218 with SMTP id h26mr47622355edj.157.1511713982852; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([81.17.24.158]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f53sm18839614ede.86.2017.11.26.08.33.01 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 26 Nov 2017 08:33:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:32:59 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171126163259.6fb55366@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <201711261559.vAQFxqQD049551@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <201711261350.vAQDmCqn000352@fire.js.berklix.net> <201711261559.vAQFxqQD049551@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:33:05 -0000 On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: > Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old grandkids > play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids > even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would > have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs. You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by default, and: $ fortune -o No fortunes found in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 17:11:09 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687A3DEBCBF for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:11:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it0-x229.google.com (mail-it0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C157708D6 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:11:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it0-x229.google.com with SMTP id x28so18232596ita.0 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=uKl/PTLqsiwDIG92x2rfpyktmZ5eLXrZLXbq1d03xls=; b=JZ099TCT0CM4dVAq7Zk+3+ik5lEeO2vp6QA9AtVlWaYlW5PTVyv0BUYasqq+GtvNCg AmY7WumbByYF7biW/u0UzNbGfV7ItezraMAYZWIVrQfZUbOFFl7WFWMcZo4U2CjZItmk E70zamgY6sI+WcsWz2+wmm4ygjTQ3m/KehSsS6eL4/RXwmEdVAdkPbFDp/QepK5+avHo K43dFGKB3wYDBNbxx4Nn8uslUIprWq62eYgKILSNp2WGCBL1rgGSCRrEP2ZrMuZzi9ig dTephTrDhzVKm0XAT+0O6zz+LeP52takvIB1aud0xiLFN2JVTJv2Xc2OVk3yXn9Hdjnz wrxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uKl/PTLqsiwDIG92x2rfpyktmZ5eLXrZLXbq1d03xls=; b=TvD4GNQDNmJOtMoOyc/eiGukMewZskm+4AMbJtjrMxqeqmUTEWtSA/+Jj5OXwBPaCh U2Bu3s5DUT/5bVn/2seIVjUq2NKimJmx0nmERMw2r2a14DyY4G3Qp7Py3KYnQfZuilHX NUqaDPkji5N0h3HTu6QIfThzUtw2ZSAgbFucvJYPkHYgKYAFwwjopwcSmXvV5m56b/qg +GQfmB76A06+IlPUmajIrM0sUgXNNa481ZE30QQDv/pL30BJdC3paedbPJabTWQmdVO1 qDhxG2UwfXl6yhQZ42BGoPbdZt4LlwANxYORVOBGbqOuWY5hqz0//w1em7HgIkF+7dVf NGBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5gLt8MhYY5/+lC9A/SbN837Ky1AL9emRyiUXd7LSmqRjjLDym8 +Zxp+bvBb0iv9cnSGVd4XPLmLr91tYOYniOtlhyD0Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZNntIWn7rUvDL4NzvuJLaAVFBALr+05BRmDxt8VbwItgTqva5c/F5n39i3KJlT1kemk/WDq+WmQSwTwv/R8cY= X-Received: by 10.36.133.135 with SMTP id r129mr26405531itd.69.1511716268328; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:06 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: <7326690.xrhihQoxKt@ralph.baldwin.cx> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <6ba033f3-82ce-da58-1720-623fed180479@FreeBSD.org> <7326690.xrhihQoxKt@ralph.baldwin.cx> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:11:06 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Idn06g6HssJitt4blBcU5yZSY58 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: John Baldwin Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , lidl@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:11:09 -0000 On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:38 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 03:01:17 PM Kurt Lidl wrote: > > On 11/22/17 11:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two p= aths we > should take: > > > > > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage fro= m > the default .login/.profile files. > > > > > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make > freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. > > > > Of these options, only #2 is approximately correct. > > > > I think just leaving the code as-is, and symlinking the freebsd-tips to > > be the default fortune datafile is the correct course of action. > > > > Removing the offensive flag handling dictates policy towards users > > of the program. If someone wants to add their own offensive datafile > > to their system, the code ought to allow them to select it. > > Agreed. I think removing the default datfiles so that someone can mainta= in > a port is fine, but we should leave freebsd-tips and the tool. When > the -o database was moved out of base we didn't remove the -o option, but > instead extended the tool to work with string files in /usr/local. The > current state is fine. The drama and lost time has always been about the > 4BSD datfiles, never about freebsd-tips or the tool itself, so the issue = is > resolved. > I like this plan. Let's call it consensus and implement. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 17:11:49 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257C1DEBDA8 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:11:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA44170A77 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:11:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id J0T2e9UtSss4TJ0T4eJO5K; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:11:47 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=JuuBlIwC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=avHbqoXWAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=rdQBgIHCaMmuthmiig0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=-FWGKkQxN3tVy8nzffOD:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 987A210E; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAQHBiuX099008; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAQHBhbc098993; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711261711.vAQHBhbc098993@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: RW cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from RW via freebsd-hackers of "Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:32:59 +0000." <20171126163259.6fb55366@gumby.homeunix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfBgB5M56WGZmAe9/o8IEDzmg78nQvHP0OUVcYBSgEeKcMwxMlFRxUKM73MZAlwXnPEiu6fx09KLFtBDfmqcBv9y5li5prr6bDAtBePNaaQ5dirXRdi7k vpsdLWkZMPA/IAlzukSbRX3LZ7TMMl41JlbQdXGvHrRzYFGaT7yKqxMGdkgo4P1JhPeWC0bTbe+/xO31O5UpG8gY/jf3VuswsMSKJeAWUmFUlxsumaOJTyDJ X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:11:49 -0000 In message <20171126163259.6fb55366@gumby.homeunix.com>, RW via freebsd-hackers writes: > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 > Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old grandkids > > play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids > > even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would > > have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs. > > You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by default, > and: > > $ fortune -o > No fortunes found > in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. Let's take an example, when I was ~ 35 years younger than now. A buddy of mine had a 3 year old son. His son would insert an MS DOS floppy disk and power on his XT clone computer. Once booted his 3 year old son removed the floppy and inserted his favourite game, entered the command on the command line and started playing. Kids today are much more capable than my friend's son was so many years ago. We already have a port that can support it. Someone could repocopy the port to just install fortune. It's 2017. If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 17:16:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484BFDEC0A9 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:16:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AC0D70DBA for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:16:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id z74so33903276iof.12 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:16:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=nagyVmr0ZfB1u1xSWhsY5J6ltRs2ccanvJhe+Bedj2w=; b=CGFVgwtjplpGVEzdLu+OeMeSpomNKx0COPosMrAIFBcJxvDkQYy8ZeiivOx1/WGUMp hXwMAVH3/5tMCy/wMvuafF7JJQ6+Cuh2cX5E1SqbzlI5otstsZHL5WavHsopP3UUZDB4 KhwStUHHE0Cc7rbsL7KLmbFBng/kW2AvWufnHKqAWHGr57HvmxlAR939WDmGFJTQTKEh xDGZKep8y3niPsiuRQcufr0ogb5orqqztgLHV3DAh7iI8e4VOSGiIT6ioKlWYT01lz04 jKq156LWEjBZY6g87Gwf4mBFY2jVA9EsrFnp4XumP/EAk2lWNO+V0Ay/gYU0cerN+9ju rA4A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nagyVmr0ZfB1u1xSWhsY5J6ltRs2ccanvJhe+Bedj2w=; b=XFHCZtdKAiYJPa3Cr7+mMHlO2n7e7smgQXTn7pky+I5jYJjQnNWCgVQLD1QXzfukvx O6+GoHYlnizQtCz+OikXUO/VYD50qNb37DkkWiRAkd7YECLYbg6E3iN5EiAZ5R/EGhGo 4TjRngIzfEg4uLgR1cB5AWX99qhXXMMSd2R7lwzDC5AlkUqTnNJJfDLNBx6PjBqp0YDT C7+blKmA8yMShxdeI2ike/dCrKixNggZxCa/4cNAvjnKH+DtdfLAYjd8vPFEa2fbDraE YUxjCwD+DqfcdoUiChJfxu9XbYYpY+llP5UnucGKHq9Dk3XmKtpww1GgGAIT/KBbFy2V HSSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4hRbNtnSCQ4pfWHVc0l+zb3lPI/rs4hkIckENBrz9rqRLzvp0r I2R0bo/jkJDtFEGxlpV+hsUs3eUpDd4viCEsCDX4wg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZu3B7fuIKz9q9NzGqVqh+ZaOWekfFueC/5i9W14oeazLlbz7/7GRGGHuFmns8WtnTmrkHkpMfslyWbMvglBds= X-Received: by 10.107.48.197 with SMTP id w188mr37299536iow.301.1511716610235; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:16:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.108.204 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:16:49 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:1052:acc7:f9de:2b6d] In-Reply-To: References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <6ba033f3-82ce-da58-1720-623fed180479@FreeBSD.org> <7326690.xrhihQoxKt@ralph.baldwin.cx> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:16:49 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tIjdf34p_dnauTYQoA1QVmmYOJg Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: John Baldwin Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , lidl@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:16:51 -0000 On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:38 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > >> On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 03:01:17 PM Kurt Lidl wrote: >> > On 11/22/17 11:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: >> > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two = paths we >> should take: >> > > >> > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage >> from the default .login/.profile files. >> > > >> > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and mak= e >> freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. >> > >> > Of these options, only #2 is approximately correct. >> > >> > I think just leaving the code as-is, and symlinking the freebsd-tips t= o >> > be the default fortune datafile is the correct course of action. >> > >> > Removing the offensive flag handling dictates policy towards users >> > of the program. If someone wants to add their own offensive datafile >> > to their system, the code ought to allow them to select it. >> >> Agreed. I think removing the default datfiles so that someone can >> maintain >> a port is fine, but we should leave freebsd-tips and the tool. When >> the -o database was moved out of base we didn't remove the -o option, bu= t >> instead extended the tool to work with string files in /usr/local. The >> current state is fine. The drama and lost time has always been about th= e >> 4BSD datfiles, never about freebsd-tips or the tool itself, so the issue >> is >> resolved. >> > > I like this plan. Let's call it consensus and implement. > [[ stupid gmail UI -- hit send too soon ]] I call it "consensus" but know there's a number of folks on one end of the spectrum that want it gone completely, and some on the other end that want the datafile restored. And all sorts of opinions in between. Maybe "rough consensus" in that it's about the "centroid" of the mass of opinions on the topic, and a good argument can be made. I find the "freebsd-tips is useful and makes the system more friendly," argument persuasive. I think it would help our brand and user experience to have it there by default and it is very much the sort of thing that should be in the base. Having the "fiunny" data files in a port and having the tool in the base system is a reasonable compromise, though one that will be revisited with pkg src in the future so if we get it wrong there's a natural decision point not too far away. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 17:32:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A732FDEC610 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:32:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org (outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.247.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88DF671579 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:32:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-User: dffae3e9-d2cf-11e7-97f4-9d8903e843e3 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 73.78.92.27 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [73.78.92.27]) by outbound1.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id dffae3e9-d2cf-11e7-97f4-9d8903e843e3; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:33:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAQHWuWf001324; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1511717576.23588.47.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: Ian Lepore To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:32:56 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <6ba033f3-82ce-da58-1720-623fed180479@FreeBSD.org> <7326690.xrhihQoxKt@ralph.baldwin.cx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:32:59 -0000 On Sun, 2017-11-26 at 10:16 -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:38 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 03:01:17 PM Kurt Lidl wrote: > > > > > > > > On 11/22/17 11:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I would like people¢s opinion on which of the following two paths we > > > should take: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage > > > from the default .login/.profile files. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make > > > freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > > > /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of these options, only #2 is approximately correct. > > > > > > > > I think just leaving the code as-is, and symlinking the freebsd-tips to > > > > be the default fortune datafile is the correct course of action. > > > > > > > > Removing the offensive flag handling dictates policy towards users > > > > of the program.  If someone wants to add their own offensive datafile > > > > to their system, the code ought to allow them to select it. > > > Agreed.  I think removing the default datfiles so that someone can > > > maintain > > > a port is fine, but we should leave freebsd-tips and the tool.  When > > > the -o database was moved out of base we didn't remove the -o option, but > > > instead extended the tool to work with string files in /usr/local.  The > > > current state is fine.  The drama and lost time has always been about the > > > 4BSD datfiles, never about freebsd-tips or the tool itself, so the issue > > > is > > > resolved. > > > > > I like this plan. Let's call it consensus and implement. > > > [[ stupid gmail UI -- hit send too soon ]] > > I call it "consensus" but know there's a number of folks on one end of the > spectrum that want it gone completely, and some on the other end that want > the datafile restored. And all sorts of opinions in between. Maybe "rough > consensus" in that it's about the "centroid" of the mass of opinions on the > topic, and a good argument can be made. > > I find the "freebsd-tips is useful and makes the system more friendly," > argument persuasive. I think it would help our brand and user experience to > have it there by default and it is very much the sort of thing that should > be in the base. Having the "fiunny" data files in a port and having the > tool in the base system is a reasonable compromise, though one that will be > revisited with pkg src in the future so if we get it wrong there's a > natural decision point not too far away. > > Warner I agree that providing freebsd-tips is useful. It also has the nice side effect of not eliminating the program, so that peoples' shell startup scripts won't suddenly start failing because it's missing.  I gather from other comments that the current program already knows to look in /usr/local for additional files, so having ports that install just the data files seems like an ideal solution. I think if the program itself were removed from base, we would need to provide a script to cover for it to prevent spurious shell startup failures.  The script would have to be something like how pkg(8) in base works -- invoke the /usr/local/bin version if it exists, or tell the user which package to install to restore full functionality. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 17:44:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9ADEDEC92B; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:44:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [78.47.246.247]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8266A71B2E; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:44:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (root@eg.sd.rdtc.ru [62.231.161.221] (may be forged)) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vAQHigB8056876 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:44:43 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: Cy.Schubert@komquats.com Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vAQHic33008522 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:44:38 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Cy Schubert , "Julian H. Stacey" References: <201711261559.vAQFxqQD049551@slippy.cwsent.com> Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <5A1AFD83.8000503@grosbein.net> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:44:35 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201711261559.vAQFxqQD049551@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, LOCAL_FROM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 1.9 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:45:00 -0000 26.11.2017 22:59, Cy Schubert wrote: > Fortune in base is totally indefensible and for that matter even in ports > it is. It absolutely has to go. I fully support Benno's effort. Please don't mix fortune(6) C code with contents of src/usr.bin/fortune/datfiles. The code src/usr.bin/fortune/{fortune|strfile} is valuable and independend of exact datfiles and there is no reason to remove it from the base as we have no alternatives for the task whey solve. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 18:10:00 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5620DED0F5; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:10:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D72D72767; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:10:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id J1NKe1pxnzNiNJ1NMeIehd; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 11:09:58 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=I+4VfJog c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=H0GPC0OhAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=aepW6LWHjBFo4IbMzaoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=KczGKrPSgCPlefTG41c3:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0703161; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAQI9sfh088613; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAQI9sAT088610; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:09:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711261809.vAQI9sAT088610@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Eugene Grosbein cc: Cy Schubert , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from Eugene Grosbein of "Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:44:35 +0700." <5A1AFD83.8000503@grosbein.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:09:53 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfE8Wt+8YVvZ4TGiGNMrLxMQS+ibZySKLDnQ8UrdCba+dH/AmH/LiE9ioNPXyyEKEvXKtFAF47j160C3f1JyH5G30cbwpa6YAKBq0zmyGAEVrUTNRsjMk ZHh+jEIVbnQAn15KQnXShPlz+lz4o+iGzDplxRVc7DGtIeKv231ueMChNU0va9UfLhEDnUs7IiffltXbTO6XpYprmPipySyfdjyiLD2e/88LXbSFCIyzsDco cU5Nj86VCY7YBPh8+v/kvujKGMzx69u8ux2Xp9q99wo= X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:10:00 -0000 In message <5A1AFD83.8000503@grosbein.net>, Eugene Grosbein writes: > 26.11.2017 22:59, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > Fortune in base is totally indefensible and for that matter even in ports > > it is. It absolutely has to go. I fully support Benno's effort. > > Please don't mix fortune(6) C code with contents of src/usr.bin/fortune/datfi > les. > > The code src/usr.bin/fortune/{fortune|strfile} is valuable and independend of > exact datfiles > and there is no reason to remove it from the base as we have no alternatives > for the task whey solve. Putting my Canadian hat on instead of being my frustrated self today: I think the way forward is to replace fortune in base with a shell script to conditionally execute ${LOCALBASE}/bin/fortune and if not found advises the user to ask their sysadmin to install a fortune port/package. I have a revision in to do the removal and plan on creating a series of ports based on bsdgames. However I'm totally willing to let someone else take the lead on this. I think this is acceptable. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 18:56:49 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99718DEE2EE; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:56:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "land.berklix.org", Issuer "land.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 395C374042; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:56:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (pD9FA9D37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.250.157.55]) (authenticated bits=0) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAQIte04097343 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:55:44 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id vAQIufn7081854; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:56:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id vAQIuTDX006344; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:56:41 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201711261856.vAQIuTDX006344@fire.js.berklix.net> To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.eu BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.eu/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:22:50 -0700." <1511634170.23588.4.camel@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:56:29 +0100 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:56:49 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: Ian Lepore > Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:22:50 -0700 Ian Lepore wrote: > On Sat, 2017-11-25 at 12:54 +0100, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > Adrian Chadd wrote: > > (top posting corrected here) > > > > > > > > On 24 November 2017 at 08:47, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > > > > > fortune(6) is listed in ring bound 4.3BSD System Index. > > > > Butchering on personal whim without prior agreement seems abuse. > > > > BSD should be [temporarily] reverted & the commit bit suspended, > > > > pending commiters' peer review of an un-authorised deletion. > > > > Then decide what what to do with fortune. > > > > > > hi, > > > Pardon me, but it's 2017 and the 4.3BSD system index isn't an immutable bible. > > > As a general push to packaging things in general, turning fortune into > > > a package seems like some low hanging fruit. > > > -adrian > > I avoided expressing opinion on where fortune might best be, to > > avoid distraction from the point: > > > > Commit bits are a privilege.  Contentious commits forced through > > before discussion, should by policy be automaticaly reverted, > > & committers bit suspended, pending committer peer review - Not with > > reference to the desirability or otherwise of a commit, but for > > imposing on FreeBSD without prior discussion. > > > > Commiter conduct reviews should be seperate from  > > discussion of desirability of a contentious commit. > > > > I'm not sure why you think you're qualified to comment on what policy > is, Learn to read. I wrote "Should" twice. I did not specify what policy IS. > but let me assure you You failed to comprehend, Doubt you can assure. > that virtually everything you've ever said on > the subject on the freebsd mailing lists is wrong. Subject ? Fortune ? Committer discipline ? Random Other ? >  People reading this > thread should not make the mistake of thinking that you are associated > with the project in any way ...................^^^^^^^^^^ Don't exagerate. I've been with FreeBSD since it existed, on lots of FreeBSD mail lists, contributed numerous patches. I have a tree of patches still to contribute, but this sort of noise rather discourages. More importantly, this sort of meta noise discourages lots of others you will never hear from, from contributing to lots of projects, (a generic phenomena observed by many, far wider than FreeBSD). Numerous friends dont contribute to PD src/ projects cos they know this sort of meta noise grief they don't need. > or speak authoratatively about the project > and its policies. I never claimed to be authoritative or hold any FreeBSD office. I suggested there "Should" be more (professional style) responsibity. Criticising me personaly for that just distracts attention from a minority of the less responsible who would need to be more responsible. Cheers, Julian -- Julian H. Stacey, Computer Consultant, BSD Linux Unix Systems Engineer, Munich Reply below, Prefix '> '. Plain text, No .doc, base64, HTML, quoted-printable. http://berklix.eu/brexit/ UK stole 3,500,000 votes; 700,000 from Brits in EU. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 18:32:25 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D247DEDDD7; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:32:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mail.KARELS.NET (ns.karels.net [216.160.39.53]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23DB73760; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:32:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Received: from mail.karels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.KARELS.NET (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAQIWNaV006777; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:32:23 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from mike@karels.net) Message-Id: <201711261832.vAQIWNaV006777@mail.KARELS.NET> To: Benno Rice cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Mike Karels Reply-to: mike@karels.net Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 22 Nov 2017 08:29:46 -0800. <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6775.1511721143.1@mail.karels.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:32:23 -0600 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:50:47 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 18:32:25 -0000 I apologize for a belated response to this thread, as well as for prolongi= ng it. However, I didn't want to respond until I had a chance to review the thread and the background. Having done that, I am unhappy with how we got to where we are, and I think discussion has not touched some important issues. First, for those who have not seen the original commit message in question= , here it is: > Remove all fortune datfiles except freebsd-tips. > Humour is a funny thing. What is funny to one person is not funny to all > people. What is insightful to one person is similarly not universal. The > fortune datfiles have been around a long time and have undoubtedly amuse= d > people but it's time to acknowledge their subjective, and in some cases > at least potentially offensive, nature and stop distributing them with t= he > imprimatur of the FreeBSD project. > If anyone wishes to distribute these via other mechanisms they are welco= me to > check them out of history and do so. > MFC after: 2 days This sounds very much like a pronouncement on behalf of the project, but a= s far as I know there was no discussion at all that would make this a formal decision. Furthermore, the change made the system internally inconsistent= , i.e. it broke things. We were then presented with this in the first email on this thread: > I would like people?s opinion on which of the following two paths we sho= uld take: > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from t= he default .login/.profile files. > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make fr= eebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as /usr/share/games/fort= une/fortunes. I see no reason that these should be the only two possible options. I see at least two other reasonable options: 3) Put it back the way that it was. 4) Move the "offensive" datfiles to a port, but leave fortune and at least freebsd-tips in the system. I note that some of the non -o limericks are reasonably considered offensive, but I am not aware of problems in, or complaints about, the main fortunes datfile. There has been no valid justification, either in the original commit, the initial email on this thread, or later in the thread, for removal. There has been general "let's move everything to packages" sentiment. Personall= y, I do not understand the goal of moving more of base (or all of it?) into packages. One criterion mentioned was whether it was required to build the sytem. That is a poor criterion, as embedded systems are mostly cross-compiled, and so nothing would be in base by that criterion. csh and vi are not required to build the system, but seem like things that should remain in base in any case. If someone wants to explain the motivation for moving much of the system into packages, please do so (but in a different thread; or point me to a thread that I have missed). fortune has been a part of BSD since long before FreeBSD. It is not a game, and is not installed in /usr/games. It seems to me to be a part of the BSD heritage, and removing it requires consensus rather than someon= e's whim. Chris H wrote: > HooWee! Here we go again... :) = No kidding. At least 30 years ago, when I was at CSRG, a female professor complained that she had received an offensive fortune when she logged out. After some investigation, we found that she was using her husband's accoun= t, and he had "fortune -o" in his .logout file. Case closed. Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 00:54:09 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61418DF4D6B; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:54:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x241.google.com (mail-it0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 238527DA5A; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:54:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x241.google.com with SMTP id t1so1781775ite.5; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:54:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Cmu3T0wIeIzOwuDxw7YGXXsTHOiSkmoFrUYfmW3ENvc=; b=jhyqhIbKbGRDqUNnjznM9YV+uGuRxGDAQW3wg70a/fpqz1K5dh3GU5A7qI5enmDdJ5 smTXB/WBk9/vyYbNYmPp2Fb+ORAjggd50vL7WXaRQF/bixP9LTDoy9FvvedQsNmO+rg7 TEqwUBCrMXlvS2MEWcXgAeUY+CvqOkaCV+AUSJuz57CQCta5XknPqN0zFRd7S3rgMPvZ Mwye0dNs485x1xk1sRRSPUwGJkaFUzvyzwbcyvDBDTQzO4WaFadWahfegEpUKCNz3Yz7 RXcFkFM9jMFG/L/jt1h95h2WdydEXPeZAN6CZTqR5CRBsMfJdBaLABrFJ2jUOskI7mkJ Vvhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Cmu3T0wIeIzOwuDxw7YGXXsTHOiSkmoFrUYfmW3ENvc=; b=NvGc5BHl641NqX0H3PsV9pdUpmmcBbYoJu1TSkKK6OEGEfI4HE6LyEBOdFuJYfekRT TMuKjYLZrVa4cjiHFSBiHic35vaT1WsMX7vnxwYWODvEXF7551g31mxqmXjy7wj9G0iD nEZ9Rkn6AwNb42CWmM5ceTMsJeGNvvdy8gw/IOUK+IEi2+dgFRXT1TMChVriQ6/0NY6D ELYBQczGOIXeysnY0U1r8Qn++j7Tzk8ak1IoZ70hGLpxHS9LvFb3hSMhXE4lqDsd0HAv rMkmlrbu9K22aEi9ujvCOspZRqRgoodzRXyx4YhoHYNEdd6UIS6MOqphjQQxcTorwz5S XA5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX40qBvAuLkMvlYisIlm4FtQ01GeNyt44fSv1VNnIA42x9bd/Teb R5AyIyyNwDjdLXdeJz2V6KbbsofaGMFQPiDI72U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYCkWA32SF59ju01k2veAa01YHKmzGMN2Q7/DzfMeBRbsNNlkNSLNVNPN1ibn5pbqX3wDLLwOZHodfPjRB7C4Q= X-Received: by 10.36.9.133 with SMTP id 127mr27990217itm.69.1511744048464; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:54:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.210 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:54:08 -0800 (PST) From: Dieter BSD Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 16:54:08 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 00:54:09 -0000 So someone finds a quote of a democratically elected leader offensive. And now some are attacking fortune with torches and pitchforks. Let's throw out the baby with the bathwater. Shall we throw out anything that anyone finds offensive? I find a lot of things offensive. Here are a few: Censorship Low quality products and services Support for low quality products and services (inthell, microshit, ...) Ignoring PRs for years and years and years and years... Status reports that do not report progress (or lack thereof) reducing the number of open PRs. Replacing a working PR system with bugzilla Dropping nuclear bombs on innocent civilians Replacing a working package system with pile of garbage that does not work. Naming the new pile of garbage that does not work the same as the previous working system, which then "requires" adding another layer of crap that does not work. Cancer Assuming that everyone has a reliable 24x7 ueberfast Internet connection. Assuming that https is somehow better than http. It may add a microscopic amount of security, but also subtracts a far larger amount. It is much slower, and breaks many things. Often the page will not load at all. Honoring a request for https is good, but forcing it down everyone's throat is evil. Mainboard designers who think that 7 expansion slots should be enough for anyone. Many can't even count to 7. Mainboard designers who think that RS-232 is no longer needed. Mainboard designers who do not understand the necessity for ECC. Closed source software, including firmware. Building bike sheds with materials that require paint. Proper bike sheds are built from things like stone or brick. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 01:42:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 312F9DF5ABA; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:42:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18AEF7ED48; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:42:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 76534C22; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:42:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:42:24 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Dieter BSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171127014224.GA14868@lonesome.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:20:40 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:42:27 -0000 On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 04:54:08PM -0800, Dieter BSD wrote: > I find a lot of things offensive. Here are a few: > > Ignoring PRs for years and years and years and years... Please suggest a constructive solution. (This is a serious request.) mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 03:34:34 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6A1DF75EB for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:34:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 742191DDD for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:34:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAR3YkJO024750; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:34:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: , "RW" In-Reply-To: <201711261711.vAQHBhbc098993@slippy.cwsent.com> From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Cy Schubert" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:34:52 -0800 Message-Id: <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:34:34 -0000 On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert" = said > In message <20171126163259=2E6fb55366@gumby=2Ehomeunix=2Ecom>, RW via=20 > freebsd-hackers > writes: > > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 > > Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > > > > Lastly=2E I'm not totally against games=2E My 4 and 5 year old grandkids > > > play games on game tablets=2E However I would never let my grandkids > > > even see what fortune spits out=2E Much of it was offensive=2E I would > > > have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs=2E > > > > You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by default, > > and: > > > > $ fortune -o=20 > > No fortunes found > > in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E >=20 > Let's take an example, when I was ~ 35 years younger than now=2E >=20 > A buddy of mine had a 3 year old son=2E His son would insert an MS DOS flop= py=20 > disk and power on his XT clone computer=2E Once booted his 3 year old son= =20 > removed the floppy and inserted his favourite game, entered the command o= n=20 > the command line and started playing=2E Kids today are much more capable th= an=20 > my friend's son was so many years ago=2E >=20 > We already have a port that can support it=2E Someone could repocopy the po= rt=20 > to just install fortune=2E >=20 > It's 2017=2E If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going to have = to respond=2E :) FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux=2E Who cares if som= e other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it"=2E Sorry=2E I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all the Linu= x flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be "Linux l= ike"=2E Over sensitive? Perhaps=2E But I simply couldn't resist=2E I'm done now=2E :) --Chris >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Cheers, > Cy Schubert > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg >=20 > =09The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 03:48:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA2FDF79B0 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:48:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E006A25C2; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:48:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAR3n5mE025648; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:49:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>" , , "John Baldwin" In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Warner Losh" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:49:11 -0800 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 03:48:48 -0000 On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:16:49 -0700 "Warner Losh" said > On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:38 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > > >> On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 03:01:17 PM Kurt Lidl wrote: > >> > On 11/22/17 11:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > >> > > I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following tw= o paths we > >> should take: > >> > > > >> > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage > >> from the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile files=2E > >> > > > >> > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and m= ake > >> freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes=2E > >> > > >> > Of these options, only #2 is approximately correct=2E > >> > > >> > I think just leaving the code as-is, and symlinking the freebsd-tips= to > >> > be the default fortune datafile is the correct course of action=2E > >> > > >> > Removing the offensive flag handling dictates policy towards users > >> > of the program=2E If someone wants to add their own offensive datafil= e > >> > to their system, the code ought to allow them to select it=2E > >> > >> Agreed=2E I think removing the default datfiles so that someone can > >> maintain > >> a port is fine, but we should leave freebsd-tips and the tool=2E When > >> the -o database was moved out of base we didn't remove the -o option, = but > >> instead extended the tool to work with string files in /usr/local=2E Th= e > >> current state is fine=2E The drama and lost time has always been about = the > >> 4BSD datfiles, never about freebsd-tips or the tool itself, so the iss= ue > >> is > >> resolved=2E > >> > > > > I like this plan=2E Let's call it consensus and implement=2E > > >=20 > [[ stupid gmail UI -- hit send too soon ]] >=20 > I call it "consensus" but know there's a number of folks on one end of th= e > spectrum that want it gone completely, and some on the other end that wan= t > the datafile restored=2E And all sorts of opinions in between=2E Maybe "rough > consensus" in that it's about the "centroid" of the mass of opinions on t= he > topic, and a good argument can be made=2E >=20 > I find the "freebsd-tips is useful and makes the system more friendly," > argument persuasive=2E I think it would help our brand and user experience = to > have it there by default and it is very much the sort of thing that shoul= d > be in the base=2E Having the "fiunny" data files in a port and having the > tool in the base system is a reasonable compromise, though one that will = be > revisited with pkg src in the future so if we get it wrong there's a > natural decision point not too far away=2E I like the way you proposed this, Warner=2E :) While I'm still *firmly* in the "keep the original dataset camp"=2E I think your proposal seems like the least abrasive, or easiest to swallow=2E :) FWIW I think could probably live with this=2E Thanks, Warner=2E --Chris >=20 > Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 04:31:28 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8D3DF882D; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 04:31:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pl0-x22a.google.com (mail-pl0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C9753AED; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 04:31:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from instructionset@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pl0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id z3so7751891plh.9; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 20:31:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+3zEMD87r/UpyumjqGTMyMegE7M6bN5C0xi368yGMWs=; b=Qw08dvcQfgQT69YyBOuExunX6hH7gMguHhcS+KsEk6fYJEf8zyVwhaouXPUqeHgXRm 4awkxdhGA1mwWReSaaZCmxNtrbwVSQAoSCKRHVtIPVdFv1Zv4yAQyBqNRUYOF1vEzc1i +7li/WCZVuy4MJ3iDGgKCDlcoG21FoLb0bzy77NLvHwlCKvwBcW5QJ2FXx1ie8SIDoqf 3DEaAPaF4UxODM5PgizhQWEgueDyzsE23RnjdzNW1tOY5IOBG7bvqrFUw6LPEZeJU0dg S+GuTj4GYdd95HKIIewa76DxfhliBsogTKtNW5JwBG6FPq6e1HG/AzReT04K5sjo/d40 dRXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+3zEMD87r/UpyumjqGTMyMegE7M6bN5C0xi368yGMWs=; b=LZjYmHiExSw9y15H1u1u7ioAdzAfT6gb4HHrssVyG6dcXZvApSOyJYhxNEXyyellOo 2DxCMgKt9pBmZY5VQOpxOKRbC5fdpYcfvcEItw96c9ixfV6g37SuGvkzOF0MPGsjKrZf hToAWj3B9WwZHvW2GmJItrPoN8pz3aLFACQhLJh5O94DxByK2yaFeorBbvGPXkXP/Ggm PRR0fot9YWLvX+/GHbseGJ1dSEYJH6vei7XJpITGoEugXfuBXMaTPllSQHMVS5jUlqDk uw/hgRXBH0vwUowxJ17GvMF3o0ZHk0ljuOaPvjHjAcaH/cEe/kauWift00ZRNEnYmptK 0OyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4j5vZqWUWGcTTemcdKNAc5S9vr9FjlyhttKVl/6xuaO4L9+kda BQeqZVZdslrJmRkgphlf+MgjXrZdQFT78NFKLnU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYpp9H8FBXLMAzA7O8rzZ2lP2O00OS1omNI9YStSkqjSkgvXYIZNU29YdSADpy74wNgV77/EfrrcMaNUL20KfY= X-Received: by 10.159.235.147 with SMTP id f19mr37200998plr.42.1511757087432; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 20:31:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.132.193 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 20:31:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201711261832.vAQIWNaV006777@mail.KARELS.NET> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <201711261832.vAQIWNaV006777@mail.KARELS.NET> From: Bill Sorenson Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:31:26 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: mike@karels.net Cc: Benno Rice , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 04:31:28 -0000 > No kidding. At least 30 years ago, when I was at CSRG, a female professor > complained that she had received an offensive fortune when she logged out. > After some investigation, we found that she was using her husband's account, > and he had "fortune -o" in his .logout file. Case closed. > > Mike > I want to 2nd Mike Karels' sentiments. There is a *big* - huge - massive difference between words people don't like and someone being offensive. I don't want to give the impression that I see value in having Hitler quotes in base, I don't, its out. Great by me. At the same time I don't see the value of scrubbing base of arrangements of words people don't like. If I see that fortune spits out a Rush Limbaugh quote, a Hitler quote, an Franklin D Roosevelt quote or an Al Franken quote or a bad joke I for one don't instantly come to the assumption that this is somehow an endorsement by the project or even a commiter of any particular thing. Its just stuff in history. In a way thats really what fortune is, a collection of history (even if just FreeBSD tips). Frankly, I'm a bit offended (if mildly) by the stance that "we've decided to excise fortune from base because its a tool used to spread hate and bad ideas." This is dangerously approaching the point of censoring the project because of how people might decide to use the software. Even Richard Stallman doesn't go for this sort of thing. Maybe we should start to discuss ripping OpenSSH out of base because it could be used in the commission of a felony or to hurt somebody's feelings. I don't want to remove vi from base just because I feel stupid after using it. There is a cost to having a free and open society, one of those is that someone may use fortune to print detestable quotes about Hitler on their terminal. I for one would recommend leaving things alone unless it is a substantive improvement. -Bill S. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 05:01:47 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2800DF8F8D for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:01:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gerryw@compvia.com) Received: from smtp101.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp101.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 669BE63AA7 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:01:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gerryw@compvia.com) Received: from smtp5.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 72BA1254F7 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:52:07 -0500 (EST) X-SMTPDoctor-Processed: csmtpprox beta Received: from smtp5.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 707842570D for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp192.mex08.mlsrvr.com (unknown [74.205.9.160]) by smtp5.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTPS id 5F48E254F7 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:52:07 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: gerryw@compvia.com Received: from smtp192.mex08.mlsrvr.com ([UNAVAILABLE]. [74.205.9.160]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.7.12); Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:52:07 -0500 Received: from MBX02A-IAD3.mex08.mlsrvr.com (172.29.17.14) by MBX02A-IAD3.mex08.mlsrvr.com (172.29.17.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1293.2; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:52:06 -0500 Received: from MBX02A-IAD3.mex08.mlsrvr.com ([fe80::6106:d222:2235:32c5]) by MBX02A-IAD3.mex08.mlsrvr.com ([fe80::6106:d222:2235:32c5%21]) with mapi id 15.00.1293.002; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 23:52:06 -0500 From: Gerry Weaver To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: RE: The future of fortune(6) Thread-Topic: The future of fortune(6) Thread-Index: AQHTZuTmhoKAONYCiUKzPeW3lgmCcqMn9zQA//+ughA= Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 04:52:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <201711261832.vAQIWNaV006777@mail.KARELS.NET> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [108.252.2.29] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:01:47 -0000 Hello All, Why not just keep fortune and tips in base and push the rest to a package? = This way history could be reasonably preserved and you would have to opt = in to get the rest.=20 BTW: I apologize, if someone has already suggested this. I may have missed = a few posts. Thanks, -G -----Original Message----- From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-hackers@freeb= sd.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sorenson Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 10:31 PM To: mike@karels.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Benno Rice ; freebsd-ar= ch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) > No kidding. At least 30 years ago, when I was at CSRG, a female=20 > professor complained that she had received an offensive fortune when she = logged out. > After some investigation, we found that she was using her husband's=20 > account, and he had "fortune -o" in his .logout file. Case closed. > > Mike > I want to 2nd Mike Karels' sentiments. There is a *big* - huge - massive di= fference between words people don't like and someone being offensive. I don't want to give the impression that I see value in having Hitler quote= s in base, I don't, its out. Great by me. At the same time I don't see the = value of scrubbing base of arrangements of words people don't like. If I se= e that fortune spits out a Rush Limbaugh quote, a Hitler quote, an Franklin= D Roosevelt quote or an Al Franken quote or a bad joke I for one don't ins= tantly come to the assumption that this is somehow an endorsement by the pr= oject or even a commiter of any particular thing. Its just stuff in history= . In a way thats really what fortune is, a collection of history (even if j= ust FreeBSD tips). Frankly, I'm a bit offended (if mildly) by the stance that "we've decided t= o excise fortune from base because its a tool used to spread hate and bad i= deas." This is dangerously approaching the point of censoring the project b= ecause of how people might decide to use the software. Even Richard Stallma= n doesn't go for this sort of thing. Maybe we should start to discuss ripping OpenSSH out of base because it cou= ld be used in the commission of a felony or to hurt somebody's feelings. I = don't want to remove vi from base just because I feel stupid after using it= . There is a cost to having a free and open society, one of those is that s= omeone may use fortune to print detestable quotes about Hitler on their ter= minal. I for one would recommend leaving things alone unless it is a substantive i= mprovement. -Bill S. _______________________________________________ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/= listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 05:48:41 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115C0DF9B78 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:48:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5A0964DDE for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:48:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id JCEzef82JGvLHJCF0eFQpO; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:46:04 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=a9pAzQaF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=EoSm3rd8AAAA:8 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=avHbqoXWAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=ENDPxKgw60luplSHaWoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=qR8_acSGOghv8NNYmwSa:22 a=pxhY87DP9d2VeQe4joPk:22 a=-FWGKkQxN3tVy8nzffOD:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D88320D; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAR5k0gn004581; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vAR5k0xB004578; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:46:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201711270546.vAR5k0xB004578@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com cc: "Cy Schubert" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "RW" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: Message from "Chris H" of "Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:34:52 -0800." <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns.ultimatedns.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 21:46:00 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFsKnyTXXERHULmEF4q3YlgLQMw5J3WpwnI/Jf1JCOe2NUi/iHwmbjrkOeKkuBQA1QZq3fN6Ecub0VpwU6BofVRiRaSxzTeE4uq0Iu/E/XcnufRvGUkk fI62bNywkdRw5xEBXB9SFh1LmlgNLK9RS2gs0rUJuzryyz/teoKZdyh7KXIZ1h6DGuC+s2y8Qv8NETRDxVEiWlM0b+crSGNHGOeIFtqUnqmYMmYdCBnNqIct AJIsI/ZmzuVuv4FNuLdbYQO2uQzA31XEpbRCwNEDy0Q= X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 05:48:41 -0000 In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns.ultimatedns.net>, "Chris H" w rites: > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert" s > aid > > > In message <20171126163259.6fb55366@gumby.homeunix.com>, RW via > > freebsd-hackers > > writes: > > > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 > > > Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old grandkids > > > > play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids > > > > even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would > > > > have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs. > > > > > > You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by default, > > > and: > > > > > > $ fortune -o > > > No fortunes found > > > in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. > > > > Let's take an example, when I was ~ 35 years younger than now. > > > > A buddy of mine had a 3 year old son. His son would insert an MS DOS floppy > > > disk and power on his XT clone computer. Once booted his 3 year old son > > removed the floppy and inserted his favourite game, entered the command on > > the command line and started playing. Kids today are much more capable than > > > my friend's son was so many years ago. > > > > We already have a port that can support it. Someone could repocopy the port > > > to just install fortune. > > > > It's 2017. If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? > OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to > respond. :) > FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux. Who cares if some > other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it". > Sorry. I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all the Linux > flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be "Linux lik > e". > Over sensitive? Perhaps. But I simply couldn't resist. > > I'm done now. :) Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably learned that contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and the cost of supporting such software. FreeBSD is a volunteer effort. Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment like ours. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 08:12:23 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9BD6DFBD5C for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:12:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from by@meetlost.com) Received: from meetlost.com (freebsd.meetlost.com [IPv6:2403:2500:8000:1::962]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.meetlost.com", Issuer "mail.meetlost.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 581C5686E3 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:12:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from by@meetlost.com) Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([58.250.244.93]) (authenticated bits=0) by meetlost.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAR8BwF8043963 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:12:05 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from by@meetlost.com) From: by Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Strange behavior about pattern matching on manual pages Message-Id: <620CD9B7-201A-46FD-8C9D-DD8DDA3A05C3@meetlost.com> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:12:09 +0800 To: FreeBSD Hackers X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:12:23 -0000 Hi, I encounter a problem when viewing manuals via man(1) command. The case is simple, when I try to search something, I press =A1=AE/=A1=AF,= and then input the pattern, If it got something in the page, it will = direct me into the specified place, and then, I continue with =A1=AFn=A1=AF= , and it goes well. But the problem is, after a sequence of =A1=AFn=A1=AF, the screen go to = the end of the manual pages, and keeping press =A1=AFn=A1=AF, I got = annoying =A1=B0...skipping...=A1=B1, the page is full of skipping and = parts of the end of the manual page. Is this a bug of man(1) or just a feature? by= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 01:46:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A62EDF5BA7 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:46:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23D167EE9A; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:46:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id vAR1k7et007500; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:46:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id vAR1k7Ex007499; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:46:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201711270146.vAR1k7Ex007499@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:46:07 -0800 (PST) CC: John Baldwin , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , lidl@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 11:51:08 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:46:19 -0000 > On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 9:38 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > > >> On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 03:01:17 PM Kurt Lidl wrote: > >> > On 11/22/17 11:29 AM, Benno Rice wrote: > >> > > I would like people?s opinion on which of the following two paths we > >> should take: > >> > > > >> > > 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage > >> from the default .login/.profile files. > >> > > > >> > > 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and make > >> freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as > >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. > >> > > >> > Of these options, only #2 is approximately correct. > >> > > >> > I think just leaving the code as-is, and symlinking the freebsd-tips to > >> > be the default fortune datafile is the correct course of action. > >> > > >> > Removing the offensive flag handling dictates policy towards users > >> > of the program. If someone wants to add their own offensive datafile > >> > to their system, the code ought to allow them to select it. > >> > >> Agreed. I think removing the default datfiles so that someone can > >> maintain > >> a port is fine, but we should leave freebsd-tips and the tool. When > >> the -o database was moved out of base we didn't remove the -o option, but > >> instead extended the tool to work with string files in /usr/local. The > >> current state is fine. The drama and lost time has always been about the > >> 4BSD datfiles, never about freebsd-tips or the tool itself, so the issue > >> is > >> resolved. > >> > > > > I like this plan. Let's call it consensus and implement. > > > > [[ stupid gmail UI -- hit send too soon ]] > > I call it "consensus" but know there's a number of folks on one end of the > spectrum that want it gone completely, and some on the other end that want > the datafile restored. And all sorts of opinions in between. Maybe "rough > consensus" in that it's about the "centroid" of the mass of opinions on the > topic, and a good argument can be made. > > I find the "freebsd-tips is useful and makes the system more friendly," > argument persuasive. I think it would help our brand and user experience to > have it there by default and it is very much the sort of thing that should > be in the base. Having the "fiunny" data files in a port and having the > tool in the base system is a reasonable compromise, though one that will be > revisited with pkg src in the future so if we get it wrong there's a > natural decision point not too far away. I can support this position today. I do how ever want to point out that this issue was visited some 20+ years ago and at that time fortune(6) was part of the optional games distribution package and it still came up as an issue, but iirc it was decided that if UCB was okay with publishing this stuff, who are we to be there censors. I was not here when the devolving of the games package happened, its unfortunate (oh pun!) that this has lead us to having fortune(6) end up as a non optional part of the base system. For the time being what we have is a reasonable reconciliation of that mistake. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 12:10:12 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA38CDFF894 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:10:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [78.47.246.247]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 325376E592 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:10:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (root@eg.sd.rdtc.ru [62.231.161.221] (may be forged)) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vARCA2KA064492 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:10:03 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: Cy.Schubert@komquats.com Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vARC9wpn018341 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:09:58 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Cy Schubert References: <201711270546.vAR5k0xB004578@slippy.cwsent.com> Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, RW From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <5A1C0093.7020209@grosbein.net> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:09:55 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201711270546.vAR5k0xB004578@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, LOCAL_FROM, RDNS_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains * 1.9 RDNS_NONE Delivered to internal network by a host with no rDNS X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:10:12 -0000 27.11.2017 12:46, Cy Schubert wrote: > Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably learned that > contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and the > cost of supporting such software. FreeBSD is a volunteer effort. > Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment like ours. fortune/strfile are not "unnecessary software" in a sense of C code. They present nearly zero cost being working part of the system. Please leave it alone, we use it. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 01:53:06 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD91DF5D35; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:53:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493147F142; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:53:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id vAR1r0v5007519; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:53:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id vAR1qwoE007518; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:52:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201711270152.vAR1qwoE007518@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: <201711261809.vAQI9sAT088610@slippy.cwsent.com> To: Cy Schubert Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 17:52:58 -0800 (PST) CC: Eugene Grosbein , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , "Julian H. Stacey" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:43:25 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 01:53:06 -0000 > In message <5A1AFD83.8000503@grosbein.net>, Eugene Grosbein writes: > > 26.11.2017 22:59, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > > Fortune in base is totally indefensible and for that matter even in ports > > > it is. It absolutely has to go. I fully support Benno's effort. > > > > Please don't mix fortune(6) C code with contents of src/usr.bin/fortune/datfi > > les. > > > > The code src/usr.bin/fortune/{fortune|strfile} is valuable and independend of > > exact datfiles > > and there is no reason to remove it from the base as we have no alternatives > > for the task whey solve. > > Putting my Canadian hat on instead of being my frustrated self today: > > I think the way forward is to replace fortune in base with a shell script > to conditionally execute ${LOCALBASE}/bin/fortune and if not found advises YEA!!!!! Someone that actually knows it is suppose to be called LOCALBASE and not a hardcoded /usr/local!! I believe a few dozen of these have slipped in to base over the years. Now where is a virtual phk beer I can send to Cy? > the user to ask their sysadmin to install a fortune port/package. > > I have a revision in to do the removal and plan on creating a series of > ports based on bsdgames. However I'm totally willing to let someone else > take the lead on this. > > I think this is acceptable. > > > -- > Cheers, > Cy Schubert > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 14:26:29 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DAC7E525D9; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:26:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps1.elischer.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34C3D72FF9; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:26:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from Julian-MBP3.local (115-166-31-52.dyn.iinet.net.au [115.166.31.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAREQEDO056615 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 06:26:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: Bill Sorenson , mike@karels.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Benno Rice , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <201711261832.vAQIWNaV006777@mail.KARELS.NET> From: Julian Elischer Message-ID: <0b9a0042-8ab8-004d-437b-a836f5b05907@freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:26:08 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:26:29 -0000 On 27/11/17 12:31 pm, Bill Sorenson wrote: >> No kidding. At least 30 years ago, when I was at CSRG, a female professor >> complained that she had received an offensive fortune when she logged out. >> After some investigation, we found that she was using her husband's account, >> and he had "fortune -o" in his .logout file. Case closed. >> >> Mike >> > I want to 2nd Mike Karels' sentiments. There is a *big* - huge - > massive difference between words people don't like and someone being > offensive. > > I don't want to give the impression that I see value in having Hitler > quotes in base, I don't, its out. Great by me. At the same time I > don't see the value of scrubbing base of arrangements of words people > don't like. If I see that fortune spits out a Rush Limbaugh quote, a > Hitler quote, an Franklin D Roosevelt quote or an Al Franken quote or > a bad joke I for one don't instantly come to the assumption that this > is somehow an endorsement by the project or even a commiter of any > particular thing. Its just stuff in history. In a way thats really > what fortune is, a collection of history (even if just FreeBSD tips). > > Frankly, I'm a bit offended (if mildly) by the stance that "we've > decided to excise fortune from base because its a tool used to spread > hate and bad ideas." This is dangerously approaching the point of > censoring the project because of how people might decide to use the > software. Even Richard Stallman doesn't go for this sort of thing. > Maybe we should start to discuss ripping OpenSSH out of base because > it could be used in the commission of a felony or to hurt somebody's > feelings. I don't want to remove vi from base just because I feel > stupid after using it. There is a cost to having a free and open > society, one of those is that someone may use fortune to print > detestable quotes about Hitler on their terminal. The fact that something was said by Adolf Hitler doesn't make it automatically unsuitable for the fortune files. I'd say that if you think it does, that gives a lot more new information about you than it does about Adolf Hitler, who we already know about. Most of the deleted quotes (to do with Women) are so offensive by modern standards that I view them as almost satirical, and somewhat educational. One or two of them are positively scary in how well they fit to current politics and I view them as cautionary.. (and certainly should have stayed). For those who didn't read them  you can find them in the commit history now. The unilateral declaration to be the "arbiter of FreeBSD morals" does grate with me more than the demise of the data files however. It's the old "Who elected you king?" line from Monty Python. Think of the bikesheds that Stalin avoided when he just killed all his opponents. I imagine that somewhere in those files was "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’ Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947" While we are not a democracy, Our desire to remain open leads unavoidably to some of the same messiness, and we should accept that as the price of our freedom to feel part of the project. The claim to avoid a bikeshed (hmm how did that play out for you?) is not an excuse to work without consultation. > > I for one would recommend leaving things alone unless it is a > substantive improvement. > > -Bill S. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 15:21:20 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF3CE54786; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:21:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CE5576782; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:21:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [134.153.27.124] (unknown [127.0.1.132]) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBB35A85; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:21:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonathan@FreeBSD.org) From: "Jonathan Anderson" To: "Bill Sorenson" Cc: mike@karels.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Benno Rice" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 11:50:46 -0330 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <201711261832.vAQIWNaV006777@mail.KARELS.NET> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.7r5425) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:21:20 -0000 On 27 Nov 2017, at 1:01, Bill Sorenson wrote: > I for one would recommend leaving things alone unless it is a > substantive improvement. That's a sound principle, but if we move the datfiles (other than `freebsd-tips`) into ports, we could take all of the future time we would otherwise spend debating fortune(6) and use it for... anything else. :) I would call that a substantive improvement. Jon -- Jonathan Anderson jonathan@FreeBSD.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 16:37:32 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B26DB8E26; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:37:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EA747A371; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:37:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vARGbqUp099611; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:37:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: , "Benno Rice" , , , "Bill Sorenson" In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Jonathan Anderson" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:37:58 -0800 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:37:32 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 11:50:46 -0330 "Jonathan Anderson" said > On 27 Nov 2017, at 1:01, Bill Sorenson wrote: >=20 > > I for one would recommend leaving things alone unless it is a > > substantive improvement=2E >=20 > That's a sound principle, but if we move the datfiles (other than=20 > `freebsd-tips`) into ports, we could take all of the future time we=20 > would otherwise spend debating fortune(6) and use it for=2E=2E=2E anything=20 > else=2E :) I would call that a substantive improvement=2E Following your assertion; if I were to pass a women being violated, knowing my intervention would end it=2E Should I simply pass it by, knowing the time I save would allow me the time to get that cup of coffee I really wanted? If you don't take the necessary time to fight for things you believe in; no matter how insignificant they may seem to others=2E What's the point? --Chris >=20 >=20 > Jon > -- > Jonathan Anderson > jonathan@FreeBSD=2Eorg From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:23:04 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 203E6DBBE1F; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:23:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6E2A7F083; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:23:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vARINNkn024544; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:23:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: , "Bill Sorenson" , , "Benno Rice" , , "Jonathan Anderson" In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:23:29 -0800 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:23:04 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:37:58 -0800 said > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 11:50:46 -0330 "Jonathan Anderson" > said >=20 > > On 27 Nov 2017, at 1:01, Bill Sorenson wrote: > >=20 > > > I for one would recommend leaving things alone unless it is a > > > substantive improvement=2E > >=20 > > That's a sound principle, but if we move the datfiles (other than=20 > > `freebsd-tips`) into ports, we could take all of the future time we=20 > > would otherwise spend debating fortune(6) and use it for=2E=2E=2E anything=20 > > else=2E :) I would call that a substantive improvement=2E > Following your assertion; if I were to pass a women being violated, > knowing my intervention would end it=2E > Should I simply pass it by, knowing the time I save would allow me > the time to get that cup of coffee I really wanted? OK=2E This is a poor choice of examples to have used in an attempt to make my point=2E I *really* should have taken more time to consider the possibilities, *and* the *potential consequences* of that choice=2E I'd like to offer my sincere apologies to anyone I may have offended in reference to this example=2E :( I'm big on freedom of speech=2E But, I don't tolerate "thoughtless" speech, and nor, I think, should anyone else=2E --Chris >=20 > If you don't take the necessary time to fight for things you > believe in; no matter how insignificant they may seem to others=2E > What's the point? >=20 > --Chris > >=20 > >=20 > > Jon > > -- > > Jonathan Anderson > > jonathan@FreeBSD=2Eorg >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list > https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 21:54:29 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8E7DEAAFC; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:54:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F4D2666B3; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:54:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB4C7123C; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:54:27 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:54:26 -0600 From: Mark Linimon To: Jonathan Anderson Cc: Bill Sorenson , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Benno Rice , mike@karels.net, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171127215426.GA18127@lonesome.com> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <201711261832.vAQIWNaV006777@mail.KARELS.NET> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:38:41 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:54:29 -0000 On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 11:50:46AM -0330, Jonathan Anderson wrote: > if we move the datfiles (other than `freebsd-tips`) into ports Already happened. mcl From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 22:11:23 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE5C1DF0508 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 22:11:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@johnea.net) Received: from mail.johnea.net (johnea.net [70.167.123.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1BF37ACA3 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 22:11:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@johnea.net) Received: from [192.168.100.192] (w520.johnea.net [192.168.100.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.johnea.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 623425F2370B for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 14:11:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <201711270546.vAR5k0xB004578@slippy.cwsent.com> From: freebsd@johnea.net Message-ID: <08dfabe4-0fb0-9158-5a39-b97b1fcaf69c@johnea.net> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 14:11:10 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201711270546.vAR5k0xB004578@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 22:11:23 -0000 On 2017-11-26 21:46, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns.ultimatedns.net>, "Chris H" writes: >> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert" said >>> In message <20171126163259.6fb55366@gumby.homeunix.com>, RW via freebsd-hackers writes: >>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old grandkids >>>>> play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids >>>>> even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would >>>>> have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs. This statement is factually incorrect. It just is not the case. I've received fortune in email every morning for about 14 years. That's well over 5000 fortunes. I've never seen even vaguely offensive content. The default settings do not deliver patently offensive content, period. >>>> >>>> You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by default, >>>> and: >>>> >>>> $ fortune -o >>>> No fortunes found >>>> in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. >>> ... >>> It's 2017. If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? >> OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to >> respond. :) >> FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux. Who cares if some >> other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it". >> Sorry. I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all the Linux >> flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be "Linux lik >> e". >> Over sensitive? Perhaps. But I simply couldn't resist. >> >> I'm done now. :) > > Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably learned that > contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and the > cost of supporting such software. FreeBSD is a volunteer effort. > Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment like ours. > I have to agree with the negative reaction to the Red Hat comparison. Saying that FreeBSD obviously isn't linux doesn't address the concern over this comparison. If you think fortune is a flame war lightning rod, maybe you haven't heard of systemd? systemd is a Red Hat product. There are many different reasons for the controversy over systemd. One of them is that it removes the individuality of adopting distributions, making them more uniform. The corporation in charge of that uniformity being Red Hat. People don't like the elimination of fortune for the same reason they didn't like the politically-correct-ification of beastie: It makes the OS seem less like something made by individuals for individuals, and more like a polished, "risk and exposure" averse, corporate product. In a word, dehumanized. johnea From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 23:34:26 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD28EDF2562 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 23:34:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khanzf@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92B137DBFA for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 23:34:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khanzf@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id j5so2131846qth.11 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:34:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rnFBpZ6WnZ8xOaFGtQDqmUN9Mkv5bpJvUDMS1zSpnys=; b=VOemnRaOl6RERENHlMAxNgunl/y62MNO11K64G04s3QIyNYdutiK+rmY+J18uVIlqD dxHO9a0hcjBtjyVi33D3sAMEC6lPlyI0XF/BoTKcRwTs9s0BaXgSrqCXqJ7KrpK/C7QT qHXYRwVdJHn7UjBKQ8blMpcp1bqIC2p8Eb8IfLoq4gXsEYAuIj6bx4VKoeNWLABcBJ05 NSJz0xA1EB//KfnqYsG+wtgsC+X2ozxP4P+RYmgOzYDnzuMUtphtNIKgx91UqE8Qr5s4 SO3hUMzVgJZDurLicvQhzEwsQP6W12wWz7yeut59SIBidqi4PKSpw89jis7Qe2JT+y++ kFdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rnFBpZ6WnZ8xOaFGtQDqmUN9Mkv5bpJvUDMS1zSpnys=; b=quh6/MMUPr7iAFOGew+TXbLkD+jsx93G5jPcH+Gf6Pjv0NUtbq/RAfEAGP9Cg5m5tI opU3OIBYLFEmOEUFdhh9ziDyvbNwrNw0Jmq7wucrbjXvpOsqnKnOJpC3vhkp0JBQRtFy Z9iFTfRbBqcdj+2kH26+4ZHqJjM7q9/ArKAsJfIbJfpHwpNRPmR/nFBFoK4EYDVR6qui NyBMxypW750icSHIlY/MFOxkYSoEAHoBB16RmSQqd1cUI0KWi+gMC4p+KT1jHDT8gnPj UZ3F0E3PVCAbc2Qz+/1G+A1HvL8jjlDBsEU0kZZSlBe4OQ83kA85EUcwemOw40tKDVCX ulNg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6/tUuDoQAm3Dk4hdXVfL9SXyeaCgzuMsqdNhlUQj0xdhWYSaOj j4MS6w9QYqLcfFf9b6fDOc0sYZ/5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbl9zXKP1XNnkyRI/h/69Mxa5/xplbPOh7nmWIxq+wOo2xSsmuVKv6yMLOHa7snS0A/rHm4cw== X-Received: by 10.200.49.101 with SMTP id h34mr1580269qtb.112.1511912065144; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc.farhan.codes ([2001:470:8:209:680:eb45:b3af:357e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y124sm240437qkd.82.2017.11.28.15.34.24 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Nov 2017 15:34:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <201711270546.vAR5k0xB004578@slippy.cwsent.com> <08dfabe4-0fb0-9158-5a39-b97b1fcaf69c@johnea.net> From: Farhan Khan Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:34:24 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <08dfabe4-0fb0-9158-5a39-b97b1fcaf69c@johnea.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 23:34:27 -0000 (I write this with a respectful tone in my voice.) With respect, FreeBSD is an operating system, not a person to be dehumanized. If you so strongly desire to run fortune, do a quick `pkg install fortune`. You can continue to utilize this feature as you please. Problem solved. No one is censoring anyone's speech, just install it from the packages. It will likely take literally 2 seconds. Being relatively new to FreeBSD on my servers, I always found fortune by default as unbecoming of an enterprise-class operating system. It would be like having lolcats or cowsay on by default. You can continue to have the morning email with a fortune quote, you will not lose that functionality. Everyone wins. On 11/28/2017 05:11 PM, freebsd@johnea.net wrote: > On 2017-11-26 21:46, Cy Schubert wrote: >> In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns.ultimatedns.net>, "Chris H" writes: >>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert" said >>>> In message <20171126163259.6fb55366@gumby.homeunix.com>, RW via freebsd-hackers writes: >>>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old grandkids >>>>>> play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids >>>>>> even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would >>>>>> have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs. > > This statement is factually incorrect. > > It just is not the case. > > I've received fortune in email every morning for about 14 years. That's well over 5000 fortunes. I've never seen even vaguely offensive content. > > The default settings do not deliver patently offensive content, period. > >>>>> >>>>> You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by default, >>>>> and: >>>>> >>>>> $ fortune -o >>>>> No fortunes found >>>>> in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. >>>> > ... >>>> It's 2017. If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? >>> OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going to have to >>> respond. :) >>> FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux. Who cares if some >>> other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it". >>> Sorry. I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all the Linux >>> flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be "Linux lik >>> e". >>> Over sensitive? Perhaps. But I simply couldn't resist. >>> >>> I'm done now. :) >> >> Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably learned that >> contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and the >> cost of supporting such software. FreeBSD is a volunteer effort. >> Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment like ours. >> > > I have to agree with the negative reaction to the Red Hat comparison. > > Saying that FreeBSD obviously isn't linux doesn't address the concern over this comparison. > > If you think fortune is a flame war lightning rod, maybe you haven't heard of systemd? > > systemd is a Red Hat product. > > There are many different reasons for the controversy over systemd. One of them is that it removes the individuality of adopting distributions, making them more uniform. The corporation in charge of that uniformity being Red Hat. > > People don't like the elimination of fortune for the same reason they didn't like the politically-correct-ification of beastie: It makes the OS seem less like something made by individuals for individuals, and more like a polished, "risk and exposure" averse, corporate product. In a word, dehumanized. > > johnea > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 00:19:05 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F88DF3C7F for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 00:19:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9B617F64C for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 00:19:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAT0JUs6063821; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:19:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Farhan Khan" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:19:36 -0800 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 00:19:05 -0000 On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:34:24 -0500 "Farhan Khan" said > On 11/28/2017 05:11 PM, freebsd@johnea=2Enet wrote: > > On 2017-11-26 21:46, Cy Schubert wrote: > >> In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns=2Eultimatedns=2Enet>, "C= hris > > H" writes: > >>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert" > > said > >>>> In message <20171126163259=2E6fb55366@gumby=2Ehomeunix=2Ecom>, RW via > > freebsd-hackers writes: > >>>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Lastly=2E I'm not totally against games=2E My 4 and 5 year old grandki= ds > >>>>>> play games on game tablets=2E However I would never let my grandkids > >>>>>> even see what fortune spits out=2E Much of it was offensive=2E I would > >>>>>> have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs=2E > >=20 > > This statement is factually incorrect=2E > >=20 > > It just is not the case=2E > >=20 > > I've received fortune in email every morning for about 14 years=2E That's= well > > over 5000 fortunes=2E I've never seen even vaguely offensive content=2E > >=20 > > The default settings do not deliver patently offensive content, period=2E > >=20 > >>>>> > >>>>> You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by defau= lt, > >>>>> and: > >>>>> > >>>>> $ fortune -o > >>>>> No fortunes found > >>>>> in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E > >>>> > > =2E=2E=2E > >>>> It's 2017=2E If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? > >>> OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going to= have > > to > >>> respond=2E :) > >>> FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux=2E Who cares = if > > some > >>> other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it"=2E > >>> Sorry=2E I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all th= e > > Linux > >>> flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be "L= inux > > lik > >>> e"=2E > >>> Over sensitive? Perhaps=2E But I simply couldn't resist=2E > >>> > >>> I'm done now=2E :) > >> > >> Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably learned= that > >> contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and th= e > >> cost of supporting such software=2E FreeBSD is a volunteer effort=2E > >> Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment like o= urs=2E > >> > >=20 > > I have to agree with the negative reaction to the Red Hat comparison=2E > >=20 > > Saying that FreeBSD obviously isn't linux doesn't address the concern o= ver > > this comparison=2E > >=20 > > If you think fortune is a flame war lightning rod, maybe you haven't he= ard of > > systemd? > >=20 > > systemd is a Red Hat product=2E > >=20 > > There are many different reasons for the controversy over systemd=2E One = of > > them is that it removes the individuality of adopting distributions, ma= king > > them more uniform=2E The corporation in charge of that uniformity being R= ed Hat=2E > >=20 > > People don't like the elimination of fortune for the same reason they d= idn't > > like the politically-correct-ification of beastie: It makes the OS seem= less > > like something made by individuals for individuals, and more like a pol= ished, > > "risk and exposure" averse, corporate product=2E In a word, dehumanized=2E > >=20 > > johnea Respectfully re-flowing your *disrespectful* Top Post > (I write this with a respectful tone in my voice=2E) >=20 > With respect, FreeBSD is an operating system, not a person to be=20 > dehumanized=2E If you so strongly desire to run fortune, do a quick `pkg=20 > install fortune`=2E You can continue to utilize this feature as you=20 > please=2E Problem solved=2E No one is censoring anyone's speech, just=20 > install it from the packages=2E It will likely take literally 2 seconds=2E >=20 > Being relatively new to FreeBSD on my servers, I always found fortune by= =20 > default as unbecoming of an enterprise-class operating system=2E It would= =20 > be like having lolcats or cowsay on by default=2E >=20 > You can continue to have the morning email with a fortune quote, you=20 > will not lose that functionality=2E Everyone wins=2E >=20 END re-flow What I think many responding to this thread may not understand; is that for some (many?) of us, the source referred to, we have been cobbling on, and using for 30+ years=2E In fact fortune(6) (as Shawn noted earlier) *predates* FreeBSD; or more accurately; the BSD=2E Point being; fortune(6) (as well as it's growing data set) is a part of it's heritage=2E Call it sentimental if you like=2E But there's not a hell-of-a-lot of that heritage left=2E fortune' data set, for the most part, is quite harmless, and often, fairly witty=2E You must directly request the portion that (apparently) some might find offensive=2E But in reality, it's really only references to part of global history=2E I experienced far worse than this in my history classes in grade && high school=2E That being WWII films that graphically depicted the atrocities imposed/inflicted on so many the victims=2E Should we eliminate world history classes, because some students might not like what they hear, and see? Hell, why not eliminate school entirely then? The point I'd like to make here; is that fortune(6), and it's accompanying data sets are *not* harmful=2E They are one of the *few* bits left of the *original* BSD, and should be allowed to stay as-is, for posterity=2E Even tho many of the new-comers don't completely understand=2E Thank you for listening=2E --Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 01:27:14 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67C2EDF5503 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 01:27:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khanzf@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk0-x233.google.com (mail-qk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E731819D1 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 01:27:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khanzf@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk0-x233.google.com with SMTP id j207so2429670qke.10 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:27:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tNY9P1nQjxrDBTC0C8Mr2tQCRzF44DVjTPBvsC04erw=; b=vc1fDH39SrP881/yewn0G0RdNA/9EeI6r7f8nvBGkB4gsHNYoIwOkQ8hHI5/2cALtF 0joiQBR4ko4m2b3jy7jirX6VjB3eiYarV6hmXra6O6gOYJ41LrRG4tEOmYGRVmEeBJMw zFzlCERaoYYMxMvMQDUlGjdJCkHXA+TQcywJzI3g7W93g+5yoNw/0fAWBlpWOG3JU0VQ ASw4Tk1qfOnnsDPQxeskXal4EObXMIMMyDdg9lChR+cntovN4Br+eepd6dnRtXoXPKHa /zJaJXuYQqvBAy8BhXIqLMtDg1yXw71HizYJn38IxARqK5wtYRbt+PZKgOWCsrQCPRFd pLDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tNY9P1nQjxrDBTC0C8Mr2tQCRzF44DVjTPBvsC04erw=; b=rbACFLcfYhiDjOcDfOl6BQo6d9UsXP26Cgwj0d9rzG/W8dtVzAACNga/bJvafi2OLX yya14gRxw9PKNAT2cFT5AYlGs5ZAywLvKUF8H9VxNI4Tk3hX7jjSxcik6XJB9s5RnvYw XE7qijmwakDSrKwQPwTPDWbPBhYFBgcJb4b00yBt++58VV7WHvkO030GZ0Z4iGDOkeS0 1GZu3Hf5sOklMtcWL9OjOeZPM+lfzQvns0DfjO7FI0pbaJ2dG7sdhM/vyCm853Z5PeMt Q8xeYn3moGQVyRsO7dn36v4PRwYCv4QgGibyTmwz+v4jNSHbfLnCziZNdUvE5v/mPtxA 3Jtg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7dGJCHyxyOjh9XwIJhuBgCDPoNxxgqNJJVZr7KLyn0bcSFPcTy DMAoDnQcvEEgiXrEf9sZh4Yodl9o X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaHqU8lapLLKNKafu4MM2Ig/mDdEQegUwaBcSic1wXxBd3paqLq0TImZHPid8InIDz4W+5Y6A== X-Received: by 10.55.102.207 with SMTP id a198mr1821587qkc.345.1511918832801; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc.farhan.codes ([2001:470:8:209:680:eb45:b3af:357e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c72sm402819qka.31.2017.11.28.17.27.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Nov 2017 17:27:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: From: Farhan Khan Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:27:10 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 01:27:14 -0000 Hi Chris, Thank you for your response. I must disagree. A) If your concern is heritage, people can look into the BSD history. This is readily available online. B) If you feel there is utility, `pkg install fortune`. Everyone is happy. I am not certain how my previous email came off as rude. Perhaps a loss of tone in my voice over email? If you knew me in person, you would know that I did not intend any disrespect. Thanks! Farhan On 11/28/2017 07:19 PM, Chris H wrote: > On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:34:24 -0500 "Farhan Khan" said > >> On 11/28/2017 05:11 PM, freebsd@johnea.net wrote: >> > On 2017-11-26 21:46, Cy Schubert wrote: >> >> In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns.ultimatedns.net>, >> "Chris >> > H" writes: >> >>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert" >> >> > said >> >>>> In message <20171126163259.6fb55366@gumby.homeunix.com>, RW via >> > freebsd-hackers writes: >> >>>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Lastly. I'm not totally against games. My 4 and 5 year old >> grandkids >> >>>>>> play games on game tablets. However I would never let my grandkids >> >>>>>> even see what fortune spits out. Much of it was offensive. I would >> >>>>>> have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs. >> > > This statement is factually incorrect. >> > > It just is not the case. >> > > I've received fortune in email every morning for about 14 years. >> That's well >> > over 5000 fortunes. I've never seen even vaguely offensive content. >> > > The default settings do not deliver patently offensive content, >> period. >> > >>>>> >> >>>>> You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by >> default, >> >>>>> and: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> $ fortune -o >> >>>>> No fortunes found >> >>>>> in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. >> >>>> >> > ... >> >>>> It's 2017. If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? >> >>> OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going >> to have >> > to >> >>> respond. :) >> >>> FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux. Who >> cares if >> > some >> >>> other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it". >> >>> Sorry. I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all >> the >> > Linux >> >>> flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be >> "Linux >> > lik >> >>> e". >> >>> Over sensitive? Perhaps. But I simply couldn't resist. >> >>> >> >>> I'm done now. :) >> >> >> >> Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably >> learned that >> >> contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and >> the >> >> cost of supporting such software. FreeBSD is a volunteer effort. >> >> Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment >> like ours. >> >> >> > > I have to agree with the negative reaction to the Red Hat comparison. >> > > Saying that FreeBSD obviously isn't linux doesn't address the >> concern over >> > this comparison. >> > > If you think fortune is a flame war lightning rod, maybe you >> haven't heard of >> > systemd? >> > > systemd is a Red Hat product. >> > > There are many different reasons for the controversy over systemd. >> One of >> > them is that it removes the individuality of adopting distributions, >> making >> > them more uniform. The corporation in charge of that uniformity >> being Red Hat. >> > > People don't like the elimination of fortune for the same reason >> they didn't >> > like the politically-correct-ification of beastie: It makes the OS >> seem less >> > like something made by individuals for individuals, and more like a >> polished, >> > "risk and exposure" averse, corporate product. In a word, dehumanized. >> > > johnea > Respectfully re-flowing your *disrespectful* Top Post >> (I write this with a respectful tone in my voice.) >> >> With respect, FreeBSD is an operating system, not a person to be >> dehumanized. If you so strongly desire to run fortune, do a quick `pkg >> install fortune`. You can continue to utilize this feature as you >> please. Problem solved. No one is censoring anyone's speech, just >> install it from the packages. It will likely take literally 2 seconds. >> >> Being relatively new to FreeBSD on my servers, I always found fortune >> by default as unbecoming of an enterprise-class operating system. It >> would be like having lolcats or cowsay on by default. >> >> You can continue to have the morning email with a fortune quote, you >> will not lose that functionality. Everyone wins. >> > END re-flow > > What I think many responding to this thread may not understand; is that > for some (many?) of us, the source referred to, we have been cobbling on, > and using for 30+ years. In fact fortune(6) (as Shawn noted earlier) > *predates* FreeBSD; or more accurately; the BSD. Point being; fortune(6) > (as well as it's growing data set) is a part of it's heritage. Call > it sentimental if you like. But there's not a hell-of-a-lot of that > heritage left. fortune' data set, for the most part, is quite harmless, > and often, fairly witty. You must directly request the portion that > (apparently) some might find offensive. But in reality, it's really > only references to part of global history. I experienced far worse than > this in my history classes in grade && high school. That being WWII > films that graphically depicted the atrocities imposed/inflicted on > so many the victims. Should we eliminate world history classes, because > some students might not like what they hear, and see? Hell, why not > eliminate school entirely then? > The point I'd like to make here; is that fortune(6), and it's > accompanying data sets are *not* harmful. They are one of the *few* > bits left of the *original* BSD, and should be allowed to stay as-is, > for posterity. Even tho many of the new-comers don't completely > understand. > > Thank you for listening. > > --Chris > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 02:06:08 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABCA6DF5F2D for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:06:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D9B31A3D for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:06:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAT26ZfZ090848; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:06:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Farhan Khan" Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:06:41 -0800 Message-Id: <46c6014e118501a00c4fb76e051cb880@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 02:06:08 -0000 On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 20:27:10 -0500 "Farhan Khan" said >=20 > On 11/28/2017 07:19 PM, Chris H wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:34:24 -0500 "Farhan Khan" sai= d > >=20 > >> On 11/28/2017 05:11 PM, freebsd@johnea=2Enet wrote: > >> > On 2017-11-26 21:46, Cy Schubert wrote: > >> >> In message <307f8e8d0ad15d2d00e74a9b602c8c19@udns=2Eultimatedns=2Enet>,= =20 > >> "Chris > >> > H" writes: > >> >>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 09:11:43 -0800 "Cy Schubert"=20 > >> > >> > said > >> >>>> In message <20171126163259=2E6fb55366@gumby=2Ehomeunix=2Ecom>, RW via > >> > freebsd-hackers writes: > >> >>>>> On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:59:52 -0800 Cy Schubert wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>>> Lastly=2E I'm not totally against games=2E My 4 and 5 year old=20 > >> grandkids > >> >>>>>> play games on game tablets=2E However I would never let my grandk= ids > >> >>>>>> even see what fortune spits out=2E Much of it was offensive=2E I wo= uld > >> >>>>>> have been ashamed had they seen some of the outputs=2E > >> > > This statement is factually incorrect=2E > >> > > It just is not the case=2E > >> > > I've received fortune in email every morning for about 14 years=2E= =20 > >> That's well > >> > over 5000 fortunes=2E I've never seen even vaguely offensive content=2E > >> > > The default settings do not deliver patently offensive content,=20 > >> period=2E > >> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> You have to try quite hard to find them, they aren't given by=20 > >> default, > >> >>>>> and: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> $ fortune -o > >> >>>>> No fortunes found > >> >>>>> in /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E > >> >>>> > >> > =2E=2E=2E > >> >>>> It's 2017=2E If Red Hat doesn't support fortune why should we? > >> >>> OK this is the 2nd time you've said that, and I'm afraid I'm going= =20 > >> to have > >> > to > >> >>> respond=2E :) > >> >>> FreeBSD is *not* Red Hat, nor any other "flavor" of Linux=2E Who=20 > >> cares if > >> > some > >> >>> other flavor of OS does, or does not "do it"=2E > >> >>> Sorry=2E I *greatly* appreciate that FreeBSD is /different/ than all= =20 > >> the > >> > Linux > >> >>> flavors, and would dearly hate that it felt that it should feel/be= =20 > >> "Linux > >> > lik > >> >>> e"=2E > >> >>> Over sensitive? Perhaps=2E But I simply couldn't resist=2E > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm done now=2E :) > >> >> > >> >> Of course FreeBSD isn't a Linux distro however RH has probably=20 > >> learned that > >> >> contentious issues like this aren't worth the risk and exposure and= =20 > >> the > >> >> cost of supporting such software=2E FreeBSD is a volunteer effort=2E > >> >> Unnecessary software still exacts a cost even in an environment=20 > >> like ours=2E > >> >> > >> > > I have to agree with the negative reaction to the Red Hat comparis= on=2E > >> > > Saying that FreeBSD obviously isn't linux doesn't address the=20 > >> concern over > >> > this comparison=2E > >> > > If you think fortune is a flame war lightning rod, maybe you=20 > >> haven't heard of > >> > systemd? > >> > > systemd is a Red Hat product=2E > >> > > There are many different reasons for the controversy over systemd=2E= =20 > >> One of > >> > them is that it removes the individuality of adopting distributions,= =20 > >> making > >> > them more uniform=2E The corporation in charge of that uniformity=20 > >> being Red Hat=2E > >> > > People don't like the elimination of fortune for the same reason= =20 > >> they didn't > >> > like the politically-correct-ification of beastie: It makes the OS= =20 > >> seem less > >> > like something made by individuals for individuals, and more like a= =20 > >> polished, > >> > "risk and exposure" averse, corporate product=2E In a word, dehumanize= d=2E > >> > > johnea > > Respectfully re-flowing your *disrespectful* Top Post > >> (I write this with a respectful tone in my voice=2E) > >> > >> With respect, FreeBSD is an operating system, not a person to be=20 > >> dehumanized=2E If you so strongly desire to run fortune, do a quick `pkg= =20 > >> install fortune`=2E You can continue to utilize this feature as you=20 > >> please=2E Problem solved=2E No one is censoring anyone's speech, just=20 > >> install it from the packages=2E It will likely take literally 2 seconds=2E > >> > >> Being relatively new to FreeBSD on my servers, I always found fortune= =20 > >> by default as unbecoming of an enterprise-class operating system=2E It= =20 > >> would be like having lolcats or cowsay on by default=2E > >> > >> You can continue to have the morning email with a fortune quote, you= =20 > >> will not lose that functionality=2E Everyone wins=2E > >> > > END re-flow > >=20 > > What I think many responding to this thread may not understand; is that > > for some (many?) of us, the source referred to, we have been cobbling o= n, > > and using for 30+ years=2E In fact fortune(6) (as Shawn noted earlier) > > *predates* FreeBSD; or more accurately; the BSD=2E Point being; fortune(6= ) > > (as well as it's growing data set) is a part of it's heritage=2E Call > > it sentimental if you like=2E But there's not a hell-of-a-lot of that > > heritage left=2E fortune' data set, for the most part, is quite harmless, > > and often, fairly witty=2E You must directly request the portion that > > (apparently) some might find offensive=2E But in reality, it's really > > only references to part of global history=2E I experienced far worse than > > this in my history classes in grade && high school=2E That being WWII > > films that graphically depicted the atrocities imposed/inflicted on > > so many the victims=2E Should we eliminate world history classes, because > > some students might not like what they hear, and see? Hell, why not > > eliminate school entirely then? > > The point I'd like to make here; is that fortune(6), and it's > > accompanying data sets are *not* harmful=2E They are one of the *few* > > bits left of the *original* BSD, and should be allowed to stay as-is, > > for posterity=2E Even tho many of the new-comers don't completely > > understand=2E > >=20 > > Thank you for listening=2E > >=20 > > --Chris Yet *another* reflow required due to *top posting* :( > Hi Chris, >=20 > Thank you for your response=2E I must disagree=2E >=20 > A) If your concern is heritage, people can look into the BSD history=2E=20 > This is readily available online=2E >=20 > B) If you feel there is utility, `pkg install fortune`=2E Everyone is happy= =2E >=20 > I am not certain how my previous email came off as rude=2E Perhaps a loss= =20 > of tone in my voice over email? If you knew me in person, you would know= =20 > that I did not intend any disrespect=2E Sorry=2E You seemed to have missed my inserts regarding your style of replies eg; top posting Which means; posting replies ABOVE the thread dialog=2E It completely corrupts the flow (see; thread) and makes it impossible to follow along in history -- especially from the archived FreeBSD mailing list=2E Answers to questions will never be found=2E Answers will be left dangling, and make no sense=2E=2E=2E So (technically, and historically) this has always been considered; rude=2E Nothing personal=2E Just felt it was important to point out=2E --Chris out=2E=2E=2E >=20 > Thanks! > Farhan END reflow > >=20 > > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 13:37:02 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F754E54466 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:300:2185:a:dead:bad:faff]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AEF174A22 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:37:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vATDanHL032788; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:36:50 GMT (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id vATDanka032779; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:36:49 GMT (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <201711291336.vATDanka032779@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:36:48 +0000 Organization: Dyslexic Fish To: khanzf@gmail.com, bsd-lists@BSDforge.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) References: <46c6014e118501a00c4fb76e051cb880@udns.ultimatedns.net> In-Reply-To: <46c6014e118501a00c4fb76e051cb880@udns.ultimatedns.net> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:36:50 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:17:40 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:37:02 -0000 "Chris H" wrote: > Which means; posting replies ABOVE the thread dialog. It completely > corrupts the flow (see; thread) and makes it impossible to follow along > in history -- especially from the archived FreeBSD mailing list. Answers > to questions will never be found. Answers will be left dangling, and make > no sense... > So (technically, and historically) this has always been considered; rude. > Nothing personal. Just felt it was important to point out. And related to that is editting/pruning the message you're replying to ;-) Anyway, these lists turned into a spam fest of incomprehensible top posts and unedited quoting a long time ago. No one (else) seems to care anymore. :-( As for the fortune bikeshed, I think there are 2 seperate issues that have been raised, and conflated. 1) Whether the offensive datafile should have been removed. 2) The potentially POLA, unannounced, undiscussed, arbitary decision of someone to make such a change on a whim. Some reactions to the latter have been taken as responses to the former. cheers From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 17:26:07 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD337E5E838 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from mail.netplex.net (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.netplex.net", Issuer "RapidSSL SHA256 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 871627D03E for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eischen@vigrid.com) Received: from sea.ntplx.net (sea.ntplx.net [204.213.176.11]) by mail.netplex.net (8.15.1/8.15.1/NETPLEX) with ESMTP id vATHEALH018987; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 12:14:10 -0500 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.netplex.net) X-Greylist: Message whitelisted by DRAC access database, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.9]); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 12:14:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 12:14:10 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Eischen X-X-Sender: eischen@sea.ntplx.net To: Jamie Landeg-Jones cc: khanzf@gmail.com, bsd-lists@BSDforge.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) In-Reply-To: <201711291336.vATDanka032779@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Message-ID: References: <46c6014e118501a00c4fb76e051cb880@udns.ultimatedns.net> <201711291336.vATDanka032779@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:26:08 -0000 On Wed, 29 Nov 2017, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote: > And related to that is editting/pruning the message you're replying to ;-) > > Anyway, these lists turned into a spam fest of incomprehensible top posts > and unedited quoting a long time ago. No one (else) seems to care anymore. > :-( > > As for the fortune bikeshed, I think there are 2 seperate issues that have > been raised, and conflated. > > 1) Whether the offensive datafile should have been removed. > > 2) The potentially POLA, unannounced, undiscussed, arbitary decision of > someone to make such a change on a whim. > > Some reactions to the latter have been taken as responses to the former. And considering that -base is being pkg'ized, shouldn't have the question been "should we keep it in base or move it to ports"? It'll be a package regardless, and just [supposing] because it's in -base doesn't mean it gets installed by default. Not much of an opinion on fortune(6), though sad to see most of it culled. But perhaps future Danish axings should wait and see how pkg-ized base plays out? Ask where do we want to maintain it, base or ports; it can be optionally installed either way. And is history saved when moving things from base to ports? -- DE From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 18:35:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF193E652DD for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:35:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF1CE7FCDA for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:35:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vATIZgSF089052 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:35:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "FreeBSD Hackers" Subject: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:35:48 -0800 Message-Id: <1f2d985d685f66ad01ff2810cbb941c9@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:35:19 -0000 I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions)=2E Sorting the mass is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of order=2E Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): sort -t =2E -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n =2E/TCPLIST | sort -g>=2E/SORTED Which ends up pretty damn close=2E But not perfect=2E :( Then it occurred to me that adding INET_ATON to sort, allowing for an additional -inet option to sort(1) for IP addresses -- hell if MySQL can provide it[1], why the heck can't sort(1)? Else I guess I'll have to try and give a shot at cobbling up a C utility to manage it=2E But seems like too much work for something that'll only accomplish one thing=2E :( Thanks for any thoughts, or further insight=2E [1] https://dev=2Emysql=2Ecom/doc/refman/5=2E7/en/miscellaneous-functions=2Ehtml#fu= nction_inet-aton --Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 18:47:21 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF91E658C4 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:47:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B5B6805DA for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:47:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vATIlnxQ090334; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:47:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" In-Reply-To: <5bdff83a-52c2-ddfb-3d8a-9d260a6e62da@ee.lbl.gov> From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Craig Leres" Subject: Re: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:47:55 -0800 Message-Id: <69f146ebf1a122a38f52dc67be57cf91@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:47:21 -0000 On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:37:25 -0800 "Craig Leres" said > On 11/29/17 10:35, Chris H wrote: > > I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions)=2E Sorting the mass > > is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of order=2E > > Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! > > Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): > >=20 > > sort -t =2E -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n=C2=A0 =2E/TCPLIST | sort -g>=2E/SORTED > >=20 > > Which ends up pretty damn close=2E But not perfect=2E >=20 > % grep sortip ~/=2Ecshrc > a sortip "sort -t=2E +0 -1n +1 -2n +2 -3n +3 -4n" >=20 > =09=09Craig Brilliant! Craig, you're a rock star=2E Thanks! --Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 18:59:05 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB16E65D7A for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:59:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A0D80E2B for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:59:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: by sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4D80B16045; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:50:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:50:37 +0100 From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Daniel Eischen Cc: Jamie Landeg-Jones , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, bsd-lists@BSDforge.com, khanzf@gmail.com Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) Message-ID: <20171129185037.6qBUI%steffen@sdaoden.eu> References: <46c6014e118501a00c4fb76e051cb880@udns.ultimatedns.net> <201711291336.vATDanka032779@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> In-Reply-To: Mail-Followup-To: Daniel Eischen , Jamie Landeg-Jones , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, bsd-lists@BSDforge.com, khanzf@gmail.com User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.5-35-g0ff8866f OpenPGP: id=232C220BCB5690A37BD22FFDEB66022795F382CE; url=https://www.sdaoden.eu/downloads/steffen.asc BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:59:05 -0000 Daniel Eischen wrote: |On Wed, 29 Nov 2017, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote: |> And related to that is editting/pruning the message you're replying to ;-) ... |> As for the fortune bikeshed, I think there are 2 seperate issues that have |> been raised, and conflated. |> |> 1) Whether the offensive datafile should have been removed. ... |And considering that -base is being pkg'ized, shouldn't have the |question been "should we keep it in base or move it to ports"? |It'll be a package regardless, and just [supposing] because it's |in -base doesn't mean it gets installed by default. | |Not much of an opinion on fortune(6), though sad to see most of it |culled. But perhaps future Danish axings should wait and see how |pkg-ized base plays out? Ask where do we want to maintain it, base |or ports; it can be optionally installed either way. | |And is history saved when moving things from base to ports? And: are children raised cleaner when they never come in contact with the dark side. I think no, it is either itself brainwashing (many of the Hitlerjugend really believed, did they) or a sign of mental immaturity or weakness of the parents. Some cultures however force(d) special skull or other bone forms for their youth by putting the bone(s) in question in splints. That works. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt) From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 18:37:42 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 154FBE6556F for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:37:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from leres@ee.lbl.gov) Received: from fun.ee.lbl.gov (fun.ee.lbl.gov [IPv6:2620:83:8000:102::ca]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "fun.ee.lbl.gov", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0498A8007E for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:37:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from leres@ee.lbl.gov) Received: from ice.ee.lbl.gov (ice.ee.lbl.gov [IPv6:2620:83:8000:102:0:0:0:d5]) (authenticated bits=0) by fun.ee.lbl.gov (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vATIbPK2094967 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:37:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from leres@ee.lbl.gov) Subject: Re: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com, FreeBSD Hackers References: <1f2d985d685f66ad01ff2810cbb941c9@udns.ultimatedns.net> From: Craig Leres Message-ID: <5bdff83a-52c2-ddfb-3d8a-9d260a6e62da@ee.lbl.gov> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 10:37:25 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1f2d985d685f66ad01ff2810cbb941c9@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:59:56 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 18:37:42 -0000 On 11/29/17 10:35, Chris H wrote: > I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions). Sorting the mass > is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of order. > Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! > Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): > > sort -t . -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n  ./TCPLIST | sort -g>./SORTED > > Which ends up pretty damn close. But not perfect. % grep sortip ~/.cshrc a sortip "sort -t. +0 -1n +1 -2n +2 -3n +3 -4n" Craig From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 19:09:50 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D1BDB93B0 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:09:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B31217DF for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:09:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id vATJ9eR1019942; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:09:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id vATJ9eir019941; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:09:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201711291909.vATJ9eir019941@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) In-Reply-To: <1f2d985d685f66ad01ff2810cbb941c9@udns.ultimatedns.net> To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:09:40 -0800 (PST) CC: FreeBSD Hackers X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:23:43 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:09:50 -0000 > I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions). Sorting the mass > is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of order. > Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! > Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): > > sort -t . -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n ./TCPLIST | sort -g>./SORTED > > Which ends up pretty damn close. But not perfect. :( > Then it occurred to me that adding INET_ATON to sort, allowing for > an additional -inet option to sort(1) for IP addresses -- hell if > MySQL can provide it[1], why the heck can't sort(1)? > Else I guess I'll have to try and give a shot at cobbling up a C > utility to manage it. But seems like too much work for something > that'll only accomplish one thing. :( > > Thanks for any thoughts, or further insight. > > [1] https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/miscellaneous-functions.html#function_inet-aton The old school on this is you do a substitue of the . for a and then just use sort -n on that then munge it back to have the .'s, Though I would not be opposed to sort learning about inet numbers, it should not be -inet as you would want to be able to apply this to fields as in 4i to sort the 4th field as an inet number. Actually I guess you need both to be orthagnal with -n and others. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 19:11:24 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A964ADB9558 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:11:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FB671A0E for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:11:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id vATJBFd8019975; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id vATJBFtk019974; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:11:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201711291911.vATJBFtk019974@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) In-Reply-To: <5bdff83a-52c2-ddfb-3d8a-9d260a6e62da@ee.lbl.gov> To: Craig Leres Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:11:15 -0800 (PST) CC: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com, FreeBSD Hackers X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:28:53 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:11:24 -0000 [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] > On 11/29/17 10:35, Chris H wrote: > > I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions). Sorting the mass > > is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of order. > > Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! > > Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): > > > > sort -t . -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n? ./TCPLIST | sort -g>./SORTED > > > > Which ends up pretty damn close. But not perfect. > > % grep sortip ~/.cshrc > a sortip "sort -t. +0 -1n +1 -2n +2 -3n +3 -4n" Very nice, now I know why my attempt failed in the past, I had the n on the + arg, not n the - arg. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 20:31:36 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05ECBDBB256 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:31:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.pphosted.com", Issuer "thawte SHA256 SSL CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A591A63694 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:31:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aduane@juniper.net) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108163.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vATKU8OK023169; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 12:31:26 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=gIfdhOxvMF6XyaHBWZUFNhctagO+pwxwUtMk/Q4AnRY=; b=bjEdjWwMOxMpYvW0K3VBBKZOEzTvN+qtbgfXyu3yS2GFT+Td0nCyodWHGe3ooxkfJj+h PCa326jFOQSdiQ58ltSkkLiWQlRKwIMXq5qx+8BrOAXJ1bBbbwO18n3RlxUjqS7vWq/d pBmtg0wCxp463Bj6Zdw4P8eMDrUfxdsf4gNpbmNmPMU6mGaL3bRMwBfC8hxlD7QyaQy2 bm8SD6NGYFUcoYDwp0MkwqLoJVut1ZRV9GubIry+3640h+wg4avpJzhpOc1tKUxtza3C hhw1YTlzD+8Pd6YvBbX/5zOE9NuQUq/xyu6deX4C5WBk2llIiYdB5ioQwkfEtzwa5eu9 4Q== Received: from nam02-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2nam02lp0083.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.83]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2ej3r8g14f-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 29 Nov 2017 12:31:25 -0800 Received: from SN1PR0501MB2125.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.163.228.152) by SN1PR0501MB2127.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.163.228.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.282.3; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:31:24 +0000 Received: from SN1PR0501MB2125.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.228.152]) by SN1PR0501MB2125.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.228.152]) with mapi id 15.20.0282.006; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:31:24 +0000 From: Andrew Duane To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "bsd-lists@BSDforge.com" CC: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: RE: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) Thread-Topic: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) Thread-Index: AQHTaUDTUa1XIgiacUqCUAfLVHa5BKMruLQAgAAVwcA= Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:31:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1f2d985d685f66ad01ff2810cbb941c9@udns.ultimatedns.net> <201711291909.vATJ9eir019941@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201711291909.vATJ9eir019941@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; SN1PR0501MB2127; 6:EEyLtfurgQV+T1CqHleXzhWWQeFP2ok/KwJ7eYN/vXzcOgPtgivaxnn931ujXJ+PeZbnPi5TnveVj5wi0LdkhAfgOlfWTKdNbiNELZwzKN+9i+Jsu2o5FtKJvQWBe5AF3egRfDrn8LpXo12gHJjC0mIds94dv3FMhFg1oKzqLZtEPSn60dH+/nT45xg912lTlaYvkzutBf6W9JjcBoBu90nZSJURaa7ekgztzeqMSa2EPpHRQIiEYBpjgwkCRjQydi43eJE8RsqBvWRpLJeY7bZBYhMzGJ4SdjPF+0y5C0mwS39RA8XXXv/MgwL388I/clel+X5SnjOLTv2pa0kdkkYUa7OEw6Am2jhrGLgi+eU=; 5:7stcxNqn7Eq23B3PN2DHVGSeb52GbZsFTMfVt8YTlhNNvsfJEXZotU7ul2fqDFzcGNstLIplEDxolE7x4VeaJ60qqM+V7tZrBxgXmATqiH+2nyBS+/7/uukcDVZ/SWwUemV7jml1PImKXwxMoSZjCweAWzOlJ8iL2KGo4irweBs=; 24:M+dtcrIPSc2syN3x2TfJiczdyv57LYTeI6mWB2oru0+NcMQTh5D49ABwXh4v3sQ0U3ZNlI1GH2AormkerZv7dMwIpgWCZ+gz39Ll6kLsdZY=; 7:CHhaRfSHjxvJ0rhZCswv8exoofdq3yMhR3zm5Rsezw8hzx/3oXVmv9CUQXwy7c3gxdiKSEz+i5ivikZlZHaU+6sxh6cr076y8qY1F1IZSGpSXCunY5r7FC1k4Lz1FQ57dmuK0iUPcQpDcz/dEVYmgcb5A73uTClp1rV8VI7mSKAb9Lnk5cShq0uAeaeH3nUi5/0jLbP/6URDPq26FdxDrJz5udgihvLY21+uIwV4W4t4H8Ocfj4azKFB8LqvCbxI x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d445d654-94f6-4126-5e47-08d5376828cf x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(48565401081)(4534020)(4602075)(4627115)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(5600026)(4604075)(2017052603199); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB2127; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN1PR0501MB2127: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(138986009662008); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040450)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(3231022)(10201501046)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123558100)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123560025)(20161123564025)(20161123555025)(20161123562025)(6072148)(201708071742011); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB2127; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000803101)(100110400095); SRVR:SN1PR0501MB2127; x-forefront-prvs: 05066DEDBB x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(346002)(376002)(366004)(39860400002)(199003)(189002)(57704003)(2950100002)(7696005)(53936002)(105586002)(106356001)(68736007)(6116002)(5660300001)(102836003)(3846002)(9686003)(101416001)(14454004)(478600001)(2501003)(76176010)(54356010)(50986010)(99286004)(97736004)(53546010)(66066001)(86362001)(6506006)(33656002)(110136005)(189998001)(316002)(55016002)(25786009)(4326008)(6246003)(77096006)(229853002)(74316002)(2906002)(3660700001)(7736002)(3280700002)(6436002)(305945005)(81156014)(81166006)(8936002)(2900100001)(8676002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB2127; H:SN1PR0501MB2125.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 1c0DTzF/ck51A38xjmia0p3PrLTqQndl3y+I1hL/T1F2JyODhhV+D+8W2AosmWk6pSlxkVWNN3thCFPKjJwiqA== spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d445d654-94f6-4126-5e47-08d5376828cf X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Nov 2017 20:31:24.2192 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR0501MB2127 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-11-29_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1711290265 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:31:36 -0000 > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Rodney W. Grimes > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 2:10 PM > To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com > Cc: FreeBSD Hackers > Subject: Re: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) >=20 > > I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions). Sorting the > > mass is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of or= der. > > Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! > > Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): > > > > sort -t . -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n ./TCPLIST | sort -g>./SORTED > > > > Which ends up pretty damn close. But not perfect. :( Then it occurred > > to me that adding INET_ATON to sort, allowing for an additional -inet > > option to sort(1) for IP addresses -- hell if MySQL can provide it[1], > > why the heck can't sort(1)? > > Else I guess I'll have to try and give a shot at cobbling up a C > > utility to manage it. But seems like too much work for something > > that'll only accomplish one thing. :( > > > > Thanks for any thoughts, or further insight. > > The old school on this is you do a substitue of the . for a and then= just > use sort -n on that then munge it back to have the .'s, >=20 > Though I would not be opposed to sort learning about inet numbers, it > should not be -inet as you would want to be able to apply this to fields = as in 4i > to sort the 4th field as an inet number. > Actually I guess you need both to be orthagnal with -n and others. > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebs= d.org Let's not forget that pesky other format: IPv6. Do we need a capital 'I' fo= r that? BTW, would using i/I as the format specifier conflict with '-i' for "ignore= -case"? .................................... Andrew L. Duane - Principal Resident Engineer Juniper Networks, Inc. aduane@juniper.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 00:30:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5627DDEE4AA for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khanzf@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb0-x232.google.com (mail-yb0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 108186B216 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from khanzf@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yb0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 5so2084986ybp.4 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:30:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PsmABWVff9Djt1DsOQH87b4ySdnZxdurmCbDbqWy3Lk=; b=Ea6GDLRVIn+F/RQHch56wwNWCJ082RinafXZ7lCwzQVPsAztVaVJNrHO3TaCvBUzrl W0BkdlrVcso4L8ja/zMOTMaxwYxFa9rJR5VEskNCvQ0H7g/GJV3R6X1l3IbdBcuDwur6 bkFnsZZdPkMIbjTNUXTFOekp19TGLlKKjcAmAhsXBdeSYVspEaGZBZWs+9zIdCmALxdv PCL+ZoKt2WUA4Lf5PBCcRhppOrQKLxnpp+MkoEi4uw8CrYwlRn0cLADYeF8BhUGFzw03 keGptDWsWJ6FQILNdiqtss4yzpc6ea6HeaPGkFCRjz0GhUmBbAbSL7LJAeJMk0gFkRN4 zneA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PsmABWVff9Djt1DsOQH87b4ySdnZxdurmCbDbqWy3Lk=; b=uhtvnAJ6c6UMTL6bywVNrtesSDeSss1tw3zDfaJ5pYtcS5h31JJg/Pdzz/JjwJZKh5 KP5hRPBUDzQ/nlkyZ7KpOYcRGZFV8rewJ4/YEKCRb7f7KeOB7+T2aXK69nPviU1Ap88f 2bZVIhxJJdEw0tiLbSS9uUt3DXFopGdkl1XtitH4BkD/UQKYwR9WjkmNkE5agEV44LZ7 RSwrEKB4SeYcx2dhUM+fcQkLhIzrzfHQGUremTa99DuOdt/kHCaoPW18aDaS97oXiJXC G+AEjoaBz6LDQ583ahi7FwbZsXkVfEQdWD6DhA4xP4oJEwD2lpxQ277Y/UKelExBYYJb HdHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5KZbe7Of/9l80Zpjm4o04kGywECG0kSBFn/DOToRA1sFWgFwOp 1ckhU9FgzAVfItTwji7XCBraYbYLZv2g3PgowtivDzPF X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYYhnd09fyjARQlJGqI9jTETRTw5Ithc1ar4v1VRsFzzb7yOT8I4rKi5znAx1CjjmlxjvgmS4ByRc5ftq9I13c= X-Received: by 10.37.133.73 with SMTP id f9mr473178ybn.100.1512001815764; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:30:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.186.147 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:29:55 -0800 (PST) From: Farhan Khan Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 19:29:55 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: What does kern_ioctl do? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:30:17 -0000 Does anyone know what kern_ioctl does? It is called by sys_ioctl and located in /usr/src/sys/kern/sys_generic.c. OpenBSD and NetBSD do not have this function, so its FreeBSD-specific, but I do not understand its purpose. Any ideas? -- Farhan Khan PGP Fingerprint: B28D 2726 E2BC A97E 3854 5ABE 9A9F 00BC D525 16EE From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 00:58:53 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24385DEF4AD for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:58:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E68B86C71E for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:58:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id 95C7A5A9F15; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:58:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:58:45 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: Farhan Khan Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What does kern_ioctl do? Message-ID: <20171130005845.GA54229@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:58:53 -0000 --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 07:29:55PM -0500, Farhan Khan wrote: > Does anyone know what kern_ioctl does? >=20 > It is called by sys_ioctl and located in > /usr/src/sys/kern/sys_generic.c. OpenBSD and NetBSD do not have this > function, so its FreeBSD-specific, but I do not understand its > purpose. Generally speaking, kern_() functions are the actual implementation with sys_() handling the conversion from struct _args and possiably performing some argument checking to regular f= unction arguments. The kern_ versions exist to allow multiple callers to use the implementation. In the case of kern_ioctl() a few callers want to effectively perform an ioctl. In other cases, the kern_ function is there to allow the freebsd32_ function to translate arguments before calling kern_ rather than duplicating the guts of sys_. A good example of this is kern_openat() which is used by most compatibility layers and by implements both open(2) and openat(2). -- Brooks --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJaH1fEAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAfYgIAIUHkpbuFwlws0YzuYKPYoOY J6RJ0fuYEmPo/1U7HaamZdDPQx8IqRRC6h5yLdp9q6/g7Av/3GG/iOWia/lhMDZs pygi3F5pGcfj63vdn65p96r4YR4F5fgxcrlBaz/wwvbzAdS+gT8i49pjxjZXfcri sFP+7hWSv5de00+7TxWKaov1fWCJb+BetiVmlhtJ3hpu9mEQ+Kd8Ug0ZQDlSFBJh jTfcFL0nOq8qHV/37OpfkYE9cSRqRC6+mu9N3QvGA4z52LCn7xBSFGgY5DDmiJ6P DcChJ7KKLSod6F8uON4a3VZKsn54ivmXCNEzYYErjLb8tvs2EzLhSjUcgl8sxAw= =/wVi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 05:32:43 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D243DF88C5 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:32:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markmi@dsl-only.net) Received: from asp.reflexion.net (outbound-mail-210-162.reflexion.net [208.70.210.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2AC975840 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:32:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markmi@dsl-only.net) Received: (qmail 2302 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2017 05:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-cs-02.app.dca.reflexion.local) (10.81.19.2) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with SMTP; 30 Nov 2017 05:25:55 -0000 Received: by mail-cs-02.app.dca.reflexion.local (Reflexion email security v8.40.3) with SMTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:25:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 12395 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2017 05:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iron2.pdx.net) (69.64.224.71) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 30 Nov 2017 05:25:55 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.25] (c-76-115-7-162.hsd1.or.comcast.net [76.115.7.162]) by iron2.pdx.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 70F1AEC8EFB; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:25:54 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: FYI: poudriere bulk -a ended up in a "all STOP" status. . . Turns out to be: /usr/bin/nohup in background vs. tty output issue Message-Id: <8D4E08D3-17B3-4F22-9330-16123EA4DAD2@dsl-only.net> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:25:53 -0800 To: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:32:43 -0000 I attempted the experiment of building all ports via poudriere (run via "/usr/bin/nohup . . . &" and watched via tail -f nohup.out ). It got to: [16:06:54] [14] [00:03:00] Finished net-mgmt/icinga-core | = icinga-core-1.13.3_1: Success [16:06:57] [14] [00:00:01] Building devel/elixir-crontab | = elixir-crontab-1.1.2 [16:06:58] [08] [00:03:38] Finished archivers/php71-zlib | = php71-zlib-7.1.11: Success [16:07:00] [08] [00:00:00] Building mail/p5-Mail-IMAPTalk | = p5-Mail-IMAPTalk-4.04 [16:07:10] [26] [00:08:01] Finished devel/geany-plugin-commander | = geany-plugin-commander-1.31: Success [16:07:12] [26] [00:00:00] Building net/spread | spread-3.17.4_5 and then seemed to hang before whatever would have been the next message, not that I noticed it at that time. (Other things seem to be working fine.) top showed most everything in a STOP state. It had built 7014 ports. Context: head -r326192 inside a Windows 10 Pro Hyper-V virtual machine. dmesg -a shows a couple of lines with a type of message that I've not seen before: sonewconn: pcb 0xfffff811e2da6570: Listen queue overflow: 1 already in = queue awaiting acceptance (1 occurrences) sonewconn: pcb 0xfffff8175d260cb0: Listen queue overflow: 1 already in = queue awaiting acceptance (2 occurrences) (The machine is basically dedicated to this build and my monitoring of it.) But I do not know the relative timing of those 2 messages or just what they were tied to. they could be some independent issue for all I know. Turns out that the following started things going again: ^C the tail -f nohup.out and fg the background process. This resulted in the following text: ^C [1] + Stopped (tty output) /usr/bin/nohup poudriere bulk -j = FBSDFSSDjail -w -C -a # fg /usr/bin/nohup poudriere bulk -j FBSDFSSDjail -w -C -a Then things were no longer in the STOP state. No visible tty output appeared after the fg-command material shown above, despite supposedly being stopped for "tty output". Looking separately at the nohup.out file, it continued with: . . . [16:07:10] [26] [00:08:01] Finished devel/geany-plugin-commander | = geany-plugin-commander-1.31: Success [16:07:12] [26] [00:00:00] Building net/spread | spread-3.17.4_5 [16:51:28] [23] [00:48:53] Finished = multimedia/gstreamer1-plugins-gnonlin | = gstreamer1-plugins-gnonlin-1.4.0: Success [16:51:34] [23] [00:00:00] Building devel/p5-MooseX-App-Cmd | = p5-MooseX-App-Cmd-0.32 . . . So I have an upper bound how long it was STOP'd before I noticed. Looks like: /usr/bin/nohup poudriere bulk -j FBSDFSSDjail -w -C -a & is currently a bad idea. Next time I will omit the "&". =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard markmi at dsl-only.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 11:15:53 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86EBDFFDBC for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 11:15:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from vps1.elischer.org (vps1.elischer.org [204.109.63.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vps1.elischer.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A53C380940 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 11:15:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Received: from Julian-MBP3.local (115-166-31-52.dyn.iinet.net.au [115.166.31.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by vps1.elischer.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAUBFT51073344 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 03:15:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from julian@freebsd.org) Subject: Re: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , bsd-lists@BSDforge.com Cc: FreeBSD Hackers References: <201711291909.vATJ9eir019941@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Julian Elischer Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 19:15:23 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201711291909.vATJ9eir019941@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 11:15:53 -0000 On 30/11/17 3:09 am, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions). Sorting the mass >> is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of order. >> Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! >> Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): >> >> sort -t . -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n ./TCPLIST | sort -g>./SORTED >> >> Which ends up pretty damn close. But not perfect. :( >> Then it occurred to me that adding INET_ATON to sort, allowing for >> an additional -inet option to sort(1) for IP addresses -- hell if >> MySQL can provide it[1], why the heck can't sort(1)? >> Else I guess I'll have to try and give a shot at cobbling up a C >> utility to manage it. But seems like too much work for something >> that'll only accomplish one thing. :( >> >> Thanks for any thoughts, or further insight. >> >> [1] https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/miscellaneous-functions.html#function_inet-aton > The old school on this is you do a substitue of the . for a > and then just use sort -n on that then munge it back to have the .'s, > > Though I would not be opposed to sort learning about inet numbers, > it should not be -inet as you would want to be able to apply > this to fields as in 4i to sort the 4th field as an inet number. > Actually I guess you need both to be orthagnal with -n and others. > > and now to try make it work for compacted IPv6 numbers... From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 14:58:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E445E5D973 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:58:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andre@fbsd.e4m.org) Received: from mail.g66.org (mail.g66.org [85.10.206.112]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3889C67240; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:58:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andre@fbsd.e4m.org) Received: from x55b53023.dyn.telefonica.de (x55b53023.dyn.telefonica.de [85.181.48.35]) (authenticated bits=128) by mail.g66.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPA id vAUEwAMa034912; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:58:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andre@fbsd.e4m.org) Received: from submit.client ([127.0.0.1]) by gate.local (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAUEwAlF090779; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:58:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andre@fbsd.e4m.org) Received: (from user@localhost) by gate.local (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vAUEwA17090778; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:58:10 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from andre@fbsd.e4m.org) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:58:10 +0100 From: Andre Albsmeier To: Mark Johnston Cc: Andre Albsmeier , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gmirror synchronising is very slow due to frequent metadata updates Message-ID: <20171130145810.GA90581@gate> References: <20171119103241.GA20588@voyager> <20171120033828.GA1959@bish> <20171120053409.GA57536@gate> <20171121173813.GB4126@raichu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20171121173813.GB4126@raichu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at colo X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:58:19 -0000 On Tue, 21-Nov-2017 at 12:38:13 -0500, Mark Johnston wrote: > On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 06:34:09AM +0100, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > > On Sun, 19-Nov-2017 at 22:38:28 -0500, Mark Johnston wrote: > > > We should probably decrease the update interval based on the size of a > > > mirror. For mirrors larger than say, 1GB, we might just update the > > > metadata block once per 1% of the synchronization operation's progress. > > > > I think best would be to have it updated every seconds. > > I think of very fast or very slow drives, or drives which are used > > heavily during rebuild (where the effective rebuild speed is quite > > low)... > > I think that's reasonable. Could you give the patch below a try? It adds I am some more weeks in the jungle with nothing more than two notebooks so trying your patch will be a bit hard (and, call me a coward, I won't do this on my mirror'ed machines 8000 km away ;-)). Apart from that it looks quite simple and seems to do all what we need (my impression as a non-kernel hacker). Maybe someone else can review it and we just give it a try? Thanks, and sorry for the late reply... -Andre > a sysctl which configures the frequency of metadata updates during > synchronization. It'd be nice to be able to specify this parameter (as > well as idletime) on a per-gmirror basis, with the default value still > being taken from the sysctl, but that can be implemented separately. > > diff --git a/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.c b/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.c > index 4a5f542c1de5..47d11f3ce465 100644 > --- a/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.c > +++ b/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.c > @@ -69,6 +69,10 @@ SYSCTL_UINT(_kern_geom_mirror, OID_AUTO, disconnect_on_failure, CTLFLAG_RWTUN, > static u_int g_mirror_syncreqs = 2; > SYSCTL_UINT(_kern_geom_mirror, OID_AUTO, sync_requests, CTLFLAG_RDTUN, > &g_mirror_syncreqs, 0, "Parallel synchronization I/O requests."); > +static u_int g_mirror_sync_period = 5; > +SYSCTL_UINT(_kern_geom_mirror, OID_AUTO, sync_update_period, CTLFLAG_RWTUN, > + &g_mirror_sync_period, 0, > + "Metadata update period during synchroniztion, in seconds"); > > #define MSLEEP(ident, mtx, priority, wmesg, timeout) do { \ > G_MIRROR_DEBUG(4, "%s: Sleeping %p.", __func__, (ident)); \ > @@ -463,6 +467,7 @@ g_mirror_init_disk(struct g_mirror_softc *sc, struct g_provider *pp, > disk->d_sync.ds_consumer = NULL; > disk->d_sync.ds_offset = md->md_sync_offset; > disk->d_sync.ds_offset_done = md->md_sync_offset; > + disk->d_sync.ds_update_ts = time_uptime; > disk->d_genid = md->md_genid; > disk->d_sync.ds_syncid = md->md_syncid; > if (errorp != NULL) > @@ -1457,10 +1462,11 @@ g_mirror_sync_request(struct bio *bp) > if (bp != NULL && bp->bio_offset < offset) > offset = bp->bio_offset; > } > - if (sync->ds_offset_done + (MAXPHYS * 100) < offset) { > - /* Update offset_done on every 100 blocks. */ > + if (g_mirror_sync_period > 0 && > + time_uptime - sync->ds_update_ts > g_mirror_sync_period) { > sync->ds_offset_done = offset; > g_mirror_update_metadata(disk); > + sync->ds_update_ts = time_uptime; > } > return; > } > diff --git a/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.h b/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.h > index 3b9664035c98..be46f7b43e4c 100644 > --- a/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.h > +++ b/sys/geom/mirror/g_mirror.h > @@ -108,6 +108,7 @@ struct g_mirror_disk_sync { > off_t ds_offset; /* Offset of next request to send. */ > off_t ds_offset_done; /* Offset of already synchronized > region. */ > + time_t ds_update_ts; /* Time of last metadata update. */ > u_int ds_syncid; /* Disk's synchronization ID. */ > u_int ds_inflight; /* Number of in-flight sync requests. */ > struct bio **ds_bios; /* BIOs for synchronization I/O. */ -- FreeBSD-11.0: Another day closer to a Micro$oft free world From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 20:40:31 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21B32DB99E6 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:40:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk0-x22b.google.com (mail-qk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFBE174531 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:40:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 63so10615950qke.0 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:40:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=PIwX4BsvBXP5pvZpE4+4d46Nz0EwR++655JTG2gbmV4=; b=ZDu33e2rIp2ua0HnuW8Ds9Rs7o3Nm9KPQ1+W0kJ8er17O4FYRYkDKP09RzB/+B+cXf lWvQzaynBUY2UcCxQOMqqtIg6llD5dENx4SAkA2a276gINIzXWyjqwbKXgth0hAKZ3Lt ioZ7JzQxQRO/Ev2ryW0Xgrw+1GZ4D26fEiimdiuo/cvUMyydQg1vJEtWUZ7VxYZGWUVw 2uXKv+nt8FqTkN43hnkmnufQ/8w7XsoJA14rlMupQKEOu69fXwUNj9iu855D2cBRGigL lFmAETclOSivZp2HsxU6eIlfrGuMcvmYVH9aOl4uRJudmMUEA+Ykfgi1Tvjjx8wLAOQt eV/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=PIwX4BsvBXP5pvZpE4+4d46Nz0EwR++655JTG2gbmV4=; b=YZChjBrLCSoqWudjAzLHm8HUMmCaSYsRj5Fvvttvcltyr/832vsry5Pez5mwq46T2X OyIyxmuU4cPsz46IziiJ6iQC8s0k+hPDsLx7dNmtliabcU1tqRwPzKOuh6ifue1vhiM5 41MgS+d8xelrpWsyS/lHGV+zv1Z6Ex+imZEHvVJSyzm4kfclubgvIxZ/RJe7GVCWN9oK zxmM8FXxSGjVGGGonuHKQiAcVNT52pL3Xty+pOSntYRehkNvO4ugTT5HGE0iiR2XoVhl 1Ct5tz0sBchxV6x9IccG2x9h9C5+zh88PqZK8QFSEeZ3PKT5rbzVziCVoRu95muUSVhb fBGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJeiC1GC2YLuqvvEpGVybfE/NmvulSetaYRAcrhFyEy18RvZwJR zgbRfeY70ZcLPRg6p0K0rbFWYg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbr/hqNro5JJ0yh07xkc1b3dYLS2ZdO+IR5i5nEKKoSxeM8WrE1neveYTG5ZfRQ/bvttkPl1g== X-Received: by 10.55.145.135 with SMTP id t129mr4305090qkd.205.1512074429731; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from raichu (toroon0560w-lp140-01-69-159-38-22.dsl.bell.ca. [69.159.38.22]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v17sm2718678qkl.36.2017.11.30.12.40.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 12:40:28 -0800 (PST) Sender: Mark Johnston Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:40:23 -0500 From: Mark Johnston To: Andre Albsmeier Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: gmirror synchronising is very slow due to frequent metadata updates Message-ID: <20171130204023.GA21606@raichu> References: <20171119103241.GA20588@voyager> <20171120033828.GA1959@bish> <20171120053409.GA57536@gate> <20171121173813.GB4126@raichu> <20171130145810.GA90581@gate> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20171130145810.GA90581@gate> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:40:31 -0000 On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 03:58:10PM +0100, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > On Tue, 21-Nov-2017 at 12:38:13 -0500, Mark Johnston wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 06:34:09AM +0100, Andre Albsmeier wrote: > > > On Sun, 19-Nov-2017 at 22:38:28 -0500, Mark Johnston wrote: > > > > We should probably decrease the update interval based on the size of a > > > > mirror. For mirrors larger than say, 1GB, we might just update the > > > > metadata block once per 1% of the synchronization operation's progress. > > > > > > I think best would be to have it updated every seconds. > > > I think of very fast or very slow drives, or drives which are used > > > heavily during rebuild (where the effective rebuild speed is quite > > > low)... > > > > I think that's reasonable. Could you give the patch below a try? It adds > > I am some more weeks in the jungle with nothing more than two > notebooks so trying your patch will be a bit hard (and, call > me a coward, I won't do this on my mirror'ed machines 8000 km > away ;-)). Fair enough! :) > > Apart from that it looks quite simple and seems to do all what > we need (my impression as a non-kernel hacker). Maybe someone > else can review it and we just give it a try? I tested it myself and committed the change as r326409. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 21:11:16 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31EEDBAB1F for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:11:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markmi@dsl-only.net) Received: from asp.reflexion.net (outbound-mail-210-136.reflexion.net [208.70.210.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74E6B7604F for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:11:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markmi@dsl-only.net) Received: (qmail 16592 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2017 21:04:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rtc-sm-01.app.dca.reflexion.local) (10.81.150.1) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with SMTP; 30 Nov 2017 21:04:29 -0000 Received: by rtc-sm-01.app.dca.reflexion.local (Reflexion email security v8.40.3) with SMTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 16:04:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 3999 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2017 21:04:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iron2.pdx.net) (69.64.224.71) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 30 Nov 2017 21:04:29 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.25] (c-76-115-7-162.hsd1.or.comcast.net [76.115.7.162]) by iron2.pdx.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F133DEC9591; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:04:28 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: dmesg -a shows "Failed to fully fault in a core file segment at VA" examples, anything to worry about? Message-Id: <4D8DB370-AC0F-40F8-B5FC-213D5A3409FD@dsl-only.net> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:04:28 -0800 To: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:11:16 -0000 Basic context: # uname -apKU FreeBSD FBSDHUGE 12.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT r326192M amd64 = amd64 1200054 1200054 During an experiment with a "poudriere bulk -a" I've noticed the following 2 message sequences: > Failed to fully fault in a core file segment at VA 0x80064b000 with = size 0x1000 to be written at offset 0x2e000 for process conftest > pid 26417 (conftest), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) > Nov 30 03:37:25 FBSDHUGE kernel: Failed to fully fault in a core file = segment at VA 0x80064b000 with size 0x1000 to be written at offset = 0x2e000 for process conftest and: > Failed to fully fault in a core file segment at VA 0x80064c000 with = size 0x1000 to be written at offset 0x2d000 for process a.out > pid 65189 (a.out), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) > Nov 30 04:58:23 FBSDHUGE kernel: Failed to fully fault in a core file = segment at VA 0x80064c000 with size 0x1000 to be written at offset = 0x2d000 for process a.out (The console only shows the two non-timestampted "Failed to . . ." messages.) I note that VA+offset =3D=3D 0x800679000 in both cases. This suggests a common cause associated with that spot in some way. The messages seem to be considered non-fatal at the system level, although the processes are getting signal 11. It is not clear to me if the signal 11's are consequences, causes, or just happen to be associated. So far I've only had the 2 examples as of: # poudriere status SET PORTS JAIL BUILD STATUS QUEUE BUILT = FAIL SKIP IGNORE REMAIN TIME LOGS - default FBSDFSSDjail 2017-11-29_03h45m33s parallel_build 27777 14609 = 156 2015 136 10861 33:09:51 = /usr/local/poudriere/data/logs/bulk/FBSDFSSDjail-default/2017-11-29_03h45m= 33s More context: FreeBSD is running under a Windows 10 Pro Hyper-V virtual machine. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard markmi at dsl-only.net From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 21:53:26 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6419CDEA50B for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:53:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4072E78495; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:53:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vAULrsVL090624; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:54:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" , "Rodney W. Grimes" In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Julian Elischer" Subject: Re: sort(1) sorting IP (v4) addresses (INET_ATON?) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:54:00 -0800 Message-Id: <59da92627fcc7edec9bb7708156b8bcc@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:53:26 -0000 On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 19:15:23 +0800 "Julian Elischer" s= aid > On 30/11/17 3:09 am, Rodney W=2E Grimes wrote: > >> I'm constantly dealing with IPv4 addresses (millions)=2E Sorting the mas= s > >> is never perfect, and I'm forced to *visually* fix those out of order=2E > >> Yet I continue to (later) find some I've missed -- I'm sick of it! > >> Thus far, I've found I attain the best results with sort(1): > >> > >> sort -t =2E -k 4,4n -k 3,3n -k 2,2n =2E/TCPLIST | sort -g>=2E/SORTED > >> > >> Which ends up pretty damn close=2E But not perfect=2E :( > >> Then it occurred to me that adding INET_ATON to sort, allowing for > >> an additional -inet option to sort(1) for IP addresses -- hell if > >> MySQL can provide it[1], why the heck can't sort(1)? > >> Else I guess I'll have to try and give a shot at cobbling up a C > >> utility to manage it=2E But seems like too much work for something > >> that'll only accomplish one thing=2E :( > >> > >> Thanks for any thoughts, or further insight=2E > >> > >> [1] > > https://dev=2Emysql=2Ecom/doc/refman/5=2E7/en/miscellaneous-functions=2Ehtml#fu= nction_inet-aton > > The old school on this is you do a substitue of the =2E for a > > and then just use sort -n on that then munge it back to have the =2E's, > > > > Though I would not be opposed to sort learning about inet numbers, > > it should not be -inet as you would want to be able to apply > > this to fields as in 4i to sort the 4th field as an inet number=2E > > Actually I guess you need both to be orthagnal with -n and others=2E > > > > > and now to try make it work for compacted IPv6 numbers=2E=2E=2E I thought about that also, while I was attempting to sort (oh pun!) this all out, and came up with the idea of packing the IP's up as HEX hashes=2E They actually were easier to sort=2E For example; the IP for ns1=2Eelischer=2Eorg= , and vps1=2Eelischer=2Eorg become: CC6D3F10, or cc6d3f10, depending on which you prefer=2E It also makes the size (length) smaller=2E In this case, we went to what would have been 13 characters to only 8=2E :) It was pretty simple; just sh(1), tr(1), dc(1), and the tiniest bit of math= =2E :) --Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 23:13:53 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484C8DEC532; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:13:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22f.google.com (mail-it0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 119447ACE7; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:13:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id u62so460441ita.2; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:13:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eknDXaGa7UNOaPkiprLg27Eu3HvqfKgmsoUCVdfQRL0=; b=LmTjzA0rZ2co1g/1AYnw66b4DtQoGtmY75IMAdPI+LMcfnCPBr5i0VEOjgE8EotfbU O6JA7GlZdJIebJNPaVGwh3BLOtMdj+kG9N0IHCrko0yvBZzRGsvW1AV8qYGvjDccm//Z 5l3TADpmuD+xim+ypw418n0oRJFtdC9mBe0+RPb1z4wvnkaW81JhxB4z/1asInOfY8wn bYFKQ/+HkerUCKgYq22wb+jPM3E59Q2gSUMSS+j0uX4ku7N/oq5PfB3Fij8qJjrTS+H2 5mzDs5CStFCyKXEdeZsrwqSFx++oA/zxSekpNNK6U5FLCQ+AiIlN2Jgj/61Zye8rZyVE FMBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eknDXaGa7UNOaPkiprLg27Eu3HvqfKgmsoUCVdfQRL0=; b=LgaywHxCo9JBvszpUgCeFPc7KEpNEZIeWy+uLsa3eHILl9WFtrZi6FQfJlpJF1pDNy gsTEohmizUn8I4ch9sBePE9dZ47wVLrmdIl8RITa7ApQesk33e9byRAt1prOlO5AVR+f YtFWeRmhx19KWcE1OmlCFQztxXS3CWhdOddLz0TCqAS1h+1zlhupIl3vh/EMKqZnb80+ lryIvrdn+Ngd+xS+1kSik77+nw6KPXTAcgpl8Kqc05pRbtMaBwp+EQJm01aMuksaIbbM xOW+dZYbJqmr2h3Eqtj7lnC7zEz3DZqkSc5KLHLKuHRmeGEF7CbCcNQ7jn6YqeyuB4sA fydQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4vJuGvY8EmJorfN0A9iM4dyuaK9XYa5Zw2W/X+qRax7FgCwd1i ug6dHjGsIJiTGBTts46AvLEjxO2o4tCmUpBSJis= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZB/WXmMGnKEW64lmZ1aR88NTYNdbuJb/RPxHcvkMGg8z+aT0pOIACy1INMrd+n465tDoJFQj3oxkEIabczjIc= X-Received: by 10.36.10.73 with SMTP id 70mr5395363itw.145.1512083632176; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:13:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.210 with HTTP; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:13:51 -0800 (PST) From: Dieter BSD Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 15:13:51 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Getting PRs fixed [ was: Re: The future of fortune(6) ] To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:13:53 -0000 ( Does this need to be cc-ed to arch, or is hackers sufficient? ) Dieter> Ignoring PRs for years and years and years and years... Mark> Please suggest a constructive solution. (This is a serious request.) Given the discussion this has come out of, (demands for censorship due to someone claiming to be offended at something) I suppose I should state that this is not intended to be offensive. Offense, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. I have intentionally left out a few details/specifics in an attempt to avoid or at least reduce offense. Damn it Jim, I'm an engineer, not a motivational speaker! D> Status reports that do not report progress (or lack thereof) D> reducing the number of open PRs. There used to be periodic reports sent to various mailing lists listing open PRs. At some point these stopped coming. Perhaps due to: D> Replacing a working PR system with bugzilla Perhaps these reports could be resurrected? Or made part of the quarterly status reports? Or something? Many PRs were ignored even with the reports, but it shouldn't hurt and might help a little. Recruiting additional developers might help. How to do that? Well, I don't know, but I have noticed that a half-baked attempt at cloning Unix has become very popular despite being very buggy and brain damaged. I tried it a few times with horrible results. I have completely given up on it after it scrambled my data. :-( Anyway it seems to have a lot of developers and corporate support, so they must be doing *something* right. Perhaps someone could study that project and figure out how they are attracting all these developers and corporate support. Perhaps the person we should be recruiting is a recruiter? (Catch 22?) I have observed the foundation receiving significant donations, (like US$1M) and spending money on things that seem unlikely to result in improvements to the system. Perhaps some of this bounty could instead be used to pay developers to fix bugs. I observe a lot of new features being developed, and yet PRs continue to be ignored. I realize that many people consider developing new features to be more fun that fixing old PRs, but the old PRs do need to be fixed. Some of these PRs cause data to be lost, or other hardships. :-( It is especially annoying when a developer cannot be bothered to maintain even their own code, much less anyone else's. Are FreeBSD's developers mature adults or just children? Perhaps there should be a requirement to fix x old PRs to receive a commit bit, and to fix y bugs/year to retain it. I don't especially like this idea, but offer it mainly in hopes that it might inspire someone to think of a way to improve it. I shouldn't have to say this, but when I say fixing a PR I mean just that. Fixing it, not just closing it with some absurd excuse. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 23:38:57 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D07DECBEC for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:38:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@rootservice.org) Received: from mail.rootservice.org (devgate.rootservice.org [IPv6:2a01:4f8:200:1468::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CAE27B586 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:38:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mailinglists@rootservice.org) Received: from devnoip.rootservice.org (devnoip.rootservice.org [46.59.195.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-ECDSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: mailinglists@rootservice.org) by mail.rootservice.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3ynv470Tpjz31N8 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 00:38:46 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rootservice.org; s=20160819; t=1512085127; bh=/NTnAghuCfLV7AoDWxfkQHhNjYVBM2aOVnPCFgSIZWw=; h=Reply-To:Subject:To:References:From:Date:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kEqObtELio8RRKBCTPdYY/q4voKlKLLC9pc9M8tbgLf6/jP19TdkR/qNPbDnPSznr TXMWrcnfVdCzeYRr6vsMkPG04nqyFz9Lcn4p7SJ2UZZXeVDVEeCuh6diJM6Fbp1361 gYnGHr6KqQDKDg+CeKE1ucykDdotSXYjc7MQzJF44EGWDrjJrx9GDIXu+/ddvAd+Ho nevODuauPYBMirkc+964MldGMucxl2JsALfn9CtpdF77JohN7CBHA5nK0XDJYo6gaA kCEcuFYaMy63/Mvf6mCHN1sK3e80RrOD3Ziumxy5xe5MZ7GnIf8dS42kMfK6MM6mdB B3pgx5NAbrlpQ== Reply-To: joeuser@rootservice.org Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed [ was: Re: The future of fortune(6) ] To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: From: Joe User Organization: RootService Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 00:38:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <3ynv445wJ8zMxDQ@devnoip.rootservice.org> X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:38:57 -0000 On 01.12.2017 00:13, Dieter BSD wrote: > Perhaps there should be a requirement to fix x old PRs to receive a > commit bit, and to fix y bugs/year to retain it. I don't especially > like this idea, but offer it mainly in hopes that it might inspire > someone to think of a way to improve it. Why not dedicate one quarter per year, possibly Q3, to fix the oldest bugs in base first (except current security-issues of course) and another quarter, possibly Q1, to fix the oldest bugs in ports first (except current security-issues and port-updates of course). In Q2 and Q4 there's then enough time to get new bugs fixed and new features developed. > I shouldn't have to say this, but when I say fixing a PR I mean just that. > Fixing it, not just closing it with some absurd excuse. I second that. Just my two cent, thanks. -- Kind Regards, Mit freundlichen Grüssen, Markus Kohlmeyer Markus Kohlmeyer PGP: 0xA4D76E4E / 801C 1779 D30A 6AFD 44F9 4A45 9F89 63BD A4D7 6E4E From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 07:45:53 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D44DEE498 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:45:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) Received: from dedi548.your-server.de (dedi548.your-server.de [85.10.215.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DEE774D93 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:45:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de) Received: from [88.198.220.132] (helo=sslproxy03.your-server.de) by dedi548.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.85_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKfco-0002X8-Vg for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:20:42 +0100 Received: from [82.135.62.35] (helo=mail.embedded-brains.de) by sslproxy03.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eKfco-0006CP-HM for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:20:42 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17C3C2A109A for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:20:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.embedded-brains.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.eb.localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3biA1w3aB50P for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:20:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost.localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8E22A166C for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:20:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.eb.localhost Received: from mail.embedded-brains.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.eb.localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ygrt0KvTE3k4 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:20:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from linux-diu0.suse (unknown [192.168.96.129]) by mail.embedded-brains.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F082A109A for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:20:37 +0100 (CET) From: Sebastian Huber To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [PATCH] Destroy seltd st_mtx and st_wait in seltdfini() Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:20:40 +0100 Message-Id: <20171201072040.19831-1-sebastian.huber@embedded-brains.de> X-Mailer: git-send-email 2.12.3 X-Authenticated-Sender: smtp-embedded@poldinet.de X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.99.2/24089/Fri Dec 1 02:11:32 2017) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 07:45:53 -0000 A correct destruction is important for WITNESS(4) and LOCK_PROFILING(9). --- sys/kern/sys_generic.c | 2 ++ 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+) diff --git a/sys/kern/sys_generic.c b/sys/kern/sys_generic.c index 546b183ee87..c5b410fe8bd 100644 --- a/sys/kern/sys_generic.c +++ b/sys/kern/sys_generic.c @@ -1884,6 +1884,8 @@ seltdfini(struct thread *td) if (stp->st_free2) uma_zfree(selfd_zone, stp->st_free2); td->td_sel = NULL; + cv_destroy(&stp->st_wait); + mtx_destroy(&stp->st_mtx); free(stp, M_SELECT); } -- 2.12.3 From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 07:53:03 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25CA6DEF0FC; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:53:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-f54.google.com (mail-lf0-f54.google.com [209.85.215.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCDAC750F0; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:53:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-f54.google.com with SMTP id f18so10714801lfg.8; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:53:02 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; 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[93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id x20sm1165813ljd.88.2017.11.30.23.44.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 23:44:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: dmesg -a shows "Failed to fully fault in a core file segment at VA" examples, anything to worry about? To: Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current , freebsd-hackers References: <4D8DB370-AC0F-40F8-B5FC-213D5A3409FD@dsl-only.net> From: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:44:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4D8DB370-AC0F-40F8-B5FC-213D5A3409FD@dsl-only.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 07:53:03 -0000 On 30/11/2017 23:04, Mark Millard wrote: > The messages seem to be considered non-fatal at the system > level, although the processes are getting signal 11. It is > not clear to me if the signal 11's are consequences, causes, > or just happen to be associated. The messages are produced if there is a problem while writing a core file. So, they can appear only if (after) a process crashed. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 10:24:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99355DFAE7D for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:24:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mremski@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Organization Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6627579FA2 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:24:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mremski@comcast.net) Received: from resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.99]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id KiUOecfYrBehhKiURe8YiF; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:24:15 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1512123855; bh=RJkTMYUi+OvvzA6m8wqVcZaeGFLE6LH1+zM7I8N121E=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=iYZMLHLDlU+HUjGom20k9iQSKJtBBSeWY7iyZxJc52FqteM6uk5ClJrRgD1YFPBZB EvxbzeF/LBwEC1B2IaPowxADrnT9oiU9PUqDMS+01HaTF8EqgsRvZj26/CA5ckOhwQ hrM2LotRKTkFgD3LmvPCuht7Sqj/mkdRpzg4KKxDNVgspTuTL4SY8BUkO9ljm6R/Gh h/kVifyiowMrPmNRBCy5Hkz/pY9k4hmg/UiWb1VQbcXHRsRKcYKqQH0ggCowAUjxur VG1LKpA/19j2KAAW7XX0clPjSBf/D5m+X30oFYp0Cic0vGilbuf9dko8eJd/SyCIjz OX3vGCbCg3Jow== Received: from oxapp-asd-18o.email.comcast.net ([96.115.230.110]) by resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id KiUReVS3rc9eOKiUReUoBo; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:24:15 +0000 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 05:24:14 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Remski To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dieter BSD Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1306478885.37537.1512123855297@connect.xfinity.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed [ was: Re: The future of fortune(6) ] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.8.4-Rev12 X-Originating-IP: ::ffff:75.68.96.21 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfP1YBJUSwyRlVliUfoiZS7zyviyqRvxsPVb/bL5CFi41224TwQvGIyiWqfg5aPczK9pggS71W8tQZlZA3inxf4NfrhcpJuPbFLlVQM/EvDLietIka0/J DdxB88Foxc4jDhhrN4jhG3noYNgyYCbFM8LsIvqFyP1knu2wujnHJexbjs9ytY4wV8JMCX81oEhcd6Ig4noc1bupnXcllqbwPwbKmqjK1d0WCENkZgwLRcj5 vmL3QdDGL5se+ZEpsUxtv1TNplCVyLwFHM776fa89BQ= X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:24:17 -0000 > On November 30, 2017 at 6:13 PM Dieter BSD wrote: > > > ( Does this need to be cc-ed to arch, or is hackers sufficient? ) > > Dieter> Ignoring PRs for years and years and years and years... > > Mark> Please suggest a constructive solution. (This is a serious request.) > > Given the discussion this has come out of, (demands for censorship > due to someone claiming to be offended at something) I suppose I should > state that this is not intended to be offensive. Offense, like beauty, > is in the eye of the beholder. I have intentionally left out a few > details/specifics in an attempt to avoid or at least reduce offense. > > Damn it Jim, I'm an engineer, not a motivational speaker! > > D> Status reports that do not report progress (or lack thereof) > D> reducing the number of open PRs. > > There used to be periodic reports sent to various mailing lists > listing open PRs. At some point these stopped coming. Perhaps > due to: > > D> Replacing a working PR system with bugzilla > > Perhaps these reports could be resurrected? Or made part of the > quarterly status reports? Or something? Many PRs were ignored > even with the reports, but it shouldn't hurt and might help a little. > > Recruiting additional developers might help. How to do that? > Well, I don't know, but I have noticed that a half-baked > attempt at cloning Unix has become very popular despite being > very buggy and brain damaged. I tried it a few times with > horrible results. I have completely given up on it after it > scrambled my data. :-( Anyway it seems to have a lot of > developers and corporate support, so they must be doing *something* > right. Perhaps someone could study that project and figure out > how they are attracting all these developers and corporate support. > Perhaps the person we should be recruiting is a recruiter? > (Catch 22?) > > I have observed the foundation receiving significant donations, > (like US$1M) and spending money on things that seem unlikely to result > in improvements to the system. Perhaps some of this bounty could > instead be used to pay developers to fix bugs. > > I observe a lot of new features being developed, and yet PRs continue > to be ignored. I realize that many people consider developing new > features to be more fun that fixing old PRs, but the old PRs do need > to be fixed. Some of these PRs cause data to be lost, or other > hardships. :-( It is especially annoying when a developer cannot be > bothered to maintain even their own code, much less anyone else's. > Are FreeBSD's developers mature adults or just children? > Perhaps there should be a requirement to fix x old PRs to receive a > commit bit, and to fix y bugs/year to retain it. I don't especially > like this idea, but offer it mainly in hopes that it might inspire > someone to think of a way to improve it. > > I shouldn't have to say this, but when I say fixing a PR I mean just that. > Fixing it, not just closing it with some absurd excuse. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Bug databases need to be scrubbbed periodically. Even if it's just to close ones that can't be reproduced or have been fixed by other changes (after due diligence in verifying it so there is no absurd excuse). There are a lot of foks with the ability and desire to help, fixing PRs and sending in patches should be a good way to involved, but that still depends on the owner of a piece to look at a patch, ask questions, get revisions and commit it. If that never happens or the submitter never gets any feedback, it winds up discouraging the new people. Fixing bugs, espeically on !CURRENT, is not glamorous, but necessary. Often actually root causing the bug and patching it gives one a better understanding of the overall system and a sense of satisfaction. Yes, I realize that everyone is a volunteer and has a real life, but at least acknowledging a submission should be done, even if it is automated. This goes both ways: originator of a bug (or patch) needs to be responsive to the FreeBSD committer if they request more data or clarification. My 2 cents as a long time user of FreeBSD as my primary desktop at home. mike From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 10:44:37 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E411DDFB5FC; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:44:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=okcb=c5=freebsd.org=kp@codepro.be) Received: from venus.codepro.be (venus.codepro.be [IPv6:2a01:4f8:162:1127::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.codepro.be", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA 2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF14D7AABE; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:44:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=okcb=c5=freebsd.org=kp@codepro.be) Received: from [172.16.5.2] (vega.codepro.be [IPv6:2a01:4f8:162:1127::3]) (Authenticated sender: kp) by venus.codepro.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 948FC4082A; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:44:34 +0100 (CET) From: "Kristof Provost" To: "Mike Remski" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, "Dieter BSD" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed [ was: Re: The future of fortune(6) ] Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:44:31 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (2.0BETAr6098) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1306478885.37537.1512123855297@connect.xfinity.com> References: <1306478885.37537.1512123855297@connect.xfinity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:44:38 -0000 On 1 Dec 2017, at 11:24, Mike Remski wrote: > Bug databases need to be scrubbbed periodically. Even if it's just to > close ones that can't be reproduced or have been fixed by other > changes (after due diligence in verifying it so there is no absurd > excuse). > > There are a lot of foks with the ability and desire to help, fixing > PRs and sending in patches should be a good way to involved, but that > still depends on the owner of a piece to look at a patch, ask > questions, get revisions and commit it. If that never happens or the > submitter never gets any feedback, it winds up discouraging the new > people. > > Fixing bugs, espeically on !CURRENT, is not glamorous, but necessary. > Often actually root causing the bug and patching it gives one a better > understanding of the overall system and a sense of satisfaction. > > Yes, I realize that everyone is a volunteer and has a real life, but > at least acknowledging a submission should be done, even if it is > automated. This goes both ways: originator of a bug (or patch) needs > to be responsive to the FreeBSD committer if they request more data or > clarification. > Good bug reports are enormously valuable. A bug report with a clear reproduction scenario is vastly more likely to get fixed (quickly). My own experience is that usually I spend more time on trying to reproduce the problem than actually fixing it. Sometimes by orders of magnitude. Patches are fantastic, but a bug report with a simple reproduction scenario is often just as good (and sometimes even better). Regards, Kristof From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 10:51:18 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CB5DFBA2D for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:51:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingegneriaforense@alice.it) Received: from smtp303.alice.it (smtp303.alice.it [82.57.200.119]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A217F7AE1C for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:51:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingegneriaforense@alice.it) Received: from feu18-alice (82.57.204.73) by smtp303.alice.it (8.6.060.43) id 59C3C0C401D9EFD4 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:55:08 +0100 Received: from (185.29.97.141) by webmail18d.pc.tim.it; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:55:08 +0100 Message-ID: <160118029ff.ingegneriaforense@alice.it> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:55:08 +0100 (CET) From: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it" Reply-To: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: USB_ERR_IOERR: is usb controller electrically "broken" ? Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 185.29.97.141:49894 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Importance: high Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 10:51:18 -0000 Hello everybody, I'm new of this list. I'm installing the freebsd from CDROM. During the installation I receive some messages: >> usbd_req_re_enumerate: addre=3, set address failed (USB_ERR_IOERROR, ignored) >> usbd_setup_device_desc: getting device descriptor at addr 3 failed, USB_ERR_IOERROR >> ugen0.3: at usbus0 (disconnected) >> uhub_reattach_port: could not allocate new device QUESTIONS: 1. Please, can you tell me what this means ? Maybe is the USB controller electrically "broken" or is due to a no correct software configuration of its parameters ? These messages are shown during the whole installation process overwriting my terminal and the sysinstall windows also. Is a way to avoid this behaviour, configuring the freebsd installation ? 2. Is there a way to take a screenshot of boot messages that are shown on the monitor during the installation process ? Thanks very much in advance. I apologize with you if my question is not related to the topics of this mailing list. Vincenzo. Forensic Consultant Tribunale di Lecce Studio: Strada di Garibaldi - Contrada Paradisi 73010 Lequile (LE) cell: 339.7968555 skype: vincenzo.di_salvo From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 11:05:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9DFDDFBF98 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:05:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mremski@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Organization Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC48C7B7F1 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:05:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mremski@comcast.net) Received: from resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.237]) by resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id Kj8leoIN3F5V2Kj8leCwP4; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:05:55 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1512126355; bh=5KbvQTHHBSw5ZxO73A9N5j6hTwACXr1ik0zFpoO5LJI=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=U5kkPMoL4+lOYjXnnFTQ1Vxq8+hSyQp62k58U1FhLEqArgtavoc5YSJ0oqm1keW5B jY4kFGnaqZSvSrOtmZDbQTfSV4jcguw0RToIOG0L4hHUksVp2gzbmKe9C502PMUkcP 2LZXncru6lM9Nw7quP0t52l2oEV666VzBJCPp9YZPNbaRtsWW7ap/m40N3a47JmPU5 G5hZHU+bQfzmAKj0Y6eGFxCWWTg+H/Z07FdedQ7XQrAEEV1VqOitu2y7msN4rmXpez 4S7eMEfJ0BzZG31Xd6G8oXsmywSQAursTO9TG9QY7z7n0TYFP8oTWGJrerDeWaF/N/ cOcKZhEgNZ2NA== Received: from trueos-8226.remski.net ([75.68.96.21]) by resomta-po-13v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id Kj8keKcU9q4RuKj8ke8FCc; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:05:55 +0000 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 06:05:53 -0500 From: Mike Remski To: "Kristof Provost" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dieter BSD , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed [ was: Re: The future of fortune(6) ] Message-ID: <20171201060553.77d2c34b@trueos-8226.remski.net> In-Reply-To: References: <1306478885.37537.1512123855297@connect.xfinity.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.0 (GTK+ 2.24.31; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfL+xD4szDUF+UGxUZ4K0Z7t3QwEmVbA2qzWW1Kvv6tgbupGAh1s2DKYyeEkpfkAUVShMHmq3sqgJc+cSyAWF3URBlsPhcRmsUBk/gbBDrrR/wgjsSCf2 sfbqA+wrj+dUF19To/3IcTJ0lwaQGrzzNKVrkRvwurTokrTsRauuJlGqzKeVhQ1CGNPwi5LlJq80aHA04w577GhcHNZnZiOVpxU7vYPrjL8+nCQA/myl01ck 8He6F+rs2l+fV25vAjWGiUhKddMIB41eShkiNcVkPoE= X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:05:56 -0000 On Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:44:31 +0100 "Kristof Provost" wrote: > On 1 Dec 2017, at 11:24, Mike Remski wrote: > > Bug databases need to be scrubbbed periodically. Even if it's just > > to close ones that can't be reproduced or have been fixed by other > > changes (after due diligence in verifying it so there is no absurd > > excuse). > > > > There are a lot of foks with the ability and desire to help, fixing > > PRs and sending in patches should be a good way to involved, but > > that still depends on the owner of a piece to look at a patch, ask > > questions, get revisions and commit it. If that never happens or > > the submitter never gets any feedback, it winds up discouraging the > > new people. > > > > Fixing bugs, espeically on !CURRENT, is not glamorous, but > > necessary. Often actually root causing the bug and patching it > > gives one a better understanding of the overall system and a sense > > of satisfaction. > > > > Yes, I realize that everyone is a volunteer and has a real life, > > but at least acknowledging a submission should be done, even if it > > is automated. This goes both ways: originator of a bug (or patch) > > needs to be responsive to the FreeBSD committer if they request > > more data or clarification. > > > Good bug reports are enormously valuable. A bug report with a clear > reproduction scenario is vastly more likely to get fixed (quickly). > My own experience is that usually I spend more time on trying to > reproduce the problem than actually fixing it. Sometimes by orders of > magnitude. > > Patches are fantastic, but a bug report with a simple reproduction > scenario is often just as good (and sometimes even better). > > Regards, > Kristof > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" Apologies for the long text lines in my original, stupid webmail client didn't wrap them. I agree that bugs with steps to reproduce are invaluable. I don't mind getting bug reports at work when QA includes that information without me needing to ask a million questions. Core files are often priceless because you can get a better picture of what happened. Maybe the problem needs to be approached from both sides? Clear documentation on what makes a useful bug report so submitters give developers better info up front and maybe a little bit of prodding to get bugs looked at? mike From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 14:46:37 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E58E57D8C for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:46:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2B2D63E3F for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:46:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E42D260072; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:46:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: USB_ERR_IOERR: is usb controller electrically "broken" ? To: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <160118029ff.ingegneriaforense@alice.it> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:43:46 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <160118029ff.ingegneriaforense@alice.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:46:37 -0000 On 12/01/17 10:55, ingegneriaforense@alice.it wrote: > Hello everybody, > I'm new of this list. I'm installing the freebsd from CDROM. > > During the installation I receive some messages: > >>> usbd_req_re_enumerate: addre=3, set address failed (USB_ERR_IOERROR, ignored) >>> usbd_setup_device_desc: getting device descriptor at addr 3 failed, USB_ERR_IOERROR >>> ugen0.3: at usbus0 (disconnected) >>> uhub_reattach_port: could not allocate new device > > QUESTIONS: > Hi, > 1. Please, can you tell me what this means ? Maybe is the USB controller electrically "broken" or is due to a no correct software configuration of its parameters ? It means the HUB is unable to enumerate some device, because it is not responding correctly to the USB tokens the host controller is sending. You'll need a USB wire analyzer to nail this down exactly. --HPS > These messages are shown during the whole installation process overwriting my terminal and the sysinstall windows also. > Is a way to avoid this behaviour, configuring the freebsd installation ? > > 2. Is there a way to take a screenshot of boot messages that are shown on the monitor during the installation process ? > Thanks very much in advance. > > I apologize with you if my question is not related to the topics of this mailing list. > > Vincenzo. > > Forensic Consultant > Tribunale di Lecce > > Studio: Strada di Garibaldi - Contrada Paradisi > 73010 Lequile (LE) > > cell: 339.7968555 > skype: vincenzo.di_salvo > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 15:02:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBC7E5D348 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:02:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57FAF647DF for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:02:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vB1F2oln058374; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:02:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: In-Reply-To: <160118029ff.ingegneriaforense@alice.it> From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it>" Subject: Re: USB_ERR_IOERR: is usb controller electrically "broken" ? Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 07:02:56 -0800 Message-Id: <07eaaf4997c405f5547d78b8ba80fc43@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 15:02:17 -0000 On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:55:08 +0100 (CET) "ingegneriaforense@alice=2Eit>" said > Hello everybody, > I'm new of this list=2E I'm installing the freebsd from CDROM=2E >=20 > During the installation I receive some messages: >=20 > >> usbd_req_re_enumerate: addre=3D3, set address failed (USB_ERR_IOERROR, > > ignored) > >> usbd_setup_device_desc: getting device descriptor at addr 3 failed, > > USB_ERR_IOERROR=20 > >> ugen0=2E3: at usbus0 (disconnected) > >> uhub_reattach_port: could not allocate new device >=20 > QUESTIONS: >=20 > 1=2E Please, can you tell me what this means ? Maybe is the USB controller > electrically "broken" or is due to a no correct software configuration of= its > parameters ? > These messages are shown during the whole installation process overwritin= g my > terminal and the sysinstall windows also=2E > Is a way to avoid this behaviour, configuring the freebsd installation ? >=20 > 2=2E Is there a way to take a screenshot of boot messages that are shown on= the > monitor during the installation process ? > Thanks very much in advance=2E As memory serves, I *think* this is the result of booting with the *verbose= *=20 switch set=2E One of the options available in the boot menu=2E This will also o= ccur should you have set: boot_verbose=3D"YES" in your loader=2Econf(5)=2E Solution: don't do that, if you don't want to receive those massages=2E :) >=20 > I apologize with you if my question is not related to the topics of this > mailing list=2E No apologies necessary=2E If there were an issue, you would have been gently directed to the correct mailing list=2E :) Oh, and welcome to the list, Vincenzo! :) >=20 > Vincenzo=2E --Chris >=20 > Forensic Consultant > Tribunale di Lecce >=20 > Studio: Strada di Garibaldi - Contrada Paradisi > 73010 Lequile (LE) >=20 > cell: 339=2E7968555 > skype: vincenzo=2Edi_salvo > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list > https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg= " From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 15:05:42 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2256E5D4E4; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:05:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x241.google.com (mail-io0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE6AB64A37; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 15:05:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x241.google.com with SMTP id s19so11554369ioa.1; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 07:05:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uSSSV6UZqQsy6Www5/DR51+3bolsP6pBeDdvpnQ8m4c=; b=YdPnMZh3fLnhmE6o1NjKiresMuAcHeJvAADj/AFFCqWVsSqLX8rzB0eXbWZuwUBW6b iGXPu9kegMe4/P+4gDHR7ysReRuoiYS2n/t7RNNXKGAPtM4gDFd/uVW+RfqpuLnkba1p ifScczJBQER44KjaPy7QiX2x9exrMUtZs7AOZ0aReV+1ExGahHgmY/F3rHZ563T6q3qo eerJWRH1cmtBbvooL8oFPzaXVx+77aVrtkJis6cwl5xwdxYXVkdUV5WNqz7S7pKqn2UU gTuQa+k8Qe7aZshqSTg+NhZoejHIboSsSS+ySQnXswi435QyhunI0i8NQhCSBOKTnYXF edHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uSSSV6UZqQsy6Www5/DR51+3bolsP6pBeDdvpnQ8m4c=; b=cbHnGb30zKQ0j2mUPGYAFDxD4QNk7w+b3IXwK4UWbkAZynkQOFLeakVhzGLjSrSuxm ZtWn46/femKbxvI0CAxvaDcwTuEQXLKqkZ4seppNH+pTqoq5xiBdQaB8H622NGug71Eo SNNleQmfbYozNolxZZplngArJY0HEOpahGh6PdGeoKsQEXaN0Q4XrAmIHtVW5usfsoLe eG7BxaWe5EyNlnSSP2rUTtfia/JbTAifeUCcuKHCHMQJxoW1wt+Ef9rtGDbQeBCYEMXs sdvau521e9e5uSWKXHDb+BAhKMGNBcQ24uwxug8IVkgRA1/jBx/lU+QLwIjq6U7iMp0f LH7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7S2tKHsFfDT8/ruStiMSGCXS2WGQTmJBPWAOxM6alGtHoQXsJL aSs6OXCmOq9o87+e0ESXfMbGwDtDpB1ZxzsOYNA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbCUNRkDEzxvRryv+pk0/ETZ9gKolybuGBJ1b1ZKb4u6RdEpIIUCKzcc8puBXJmwxiRA8nWiOvdOSxwYWtyP1s= X-Received: by 10.107.132.207 with SMTP id o76mr13433789ioi.243.1512140741739; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 07:05:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.210 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:05:41 -0800 (PST) From: Dieter BSD Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:05:41 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Getting PRs fixed To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 15:05:43 -0000 Thought of another idea. When new people write in, asking what they should work on, they receive a variety of suggestions. I've seen quite a few of these over the years. I have NEVER seen anyone suggest that they look at the open PRs and work on fixing them. Fixing open PRs should be the first, and probably only, suggestion. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 16:25:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDD1E5EDA8; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:25:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A92266CDF; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:25:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vB1GQRAq064366; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:26:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: , In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Dieter BSD" Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:26:33 -0800 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:25:51 -0000 On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:05:41 -0800 "Dieter BSD" said > Thought of another idea=2E When new people write in, asking > what they should work on, they receive a variety of suggestions=2E > I've seen quite a few of these over the years=2E I have NEVER seen > anyone suggest that they look at the open PRs and work on fixing them=2E =2E=2E=2Eand yet seems the *most obvious* reply=2E :) >=20 > Fixing open PRs should be the first, and probably only, suggestion=2E Indeed! :) --Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 16:28:16 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CEDE5EF12 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:28:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2691B66EFC for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:28:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id j124so12345012lfg.2 for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:28:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lSwuzbC70u52vrZjgtjSvyBQTZq++EF3NIApqC342ac=; b=F7LJbRgy1+sdqDD+3r/Cgted1+HY+RWYWpabkd98rrOnVDDkH9I4qcA1T439gY7GAn O79bqTxYrvTRoZU9Qt8FkfE7wZW9zm/4FszSgvNHVqUsKekMNGkr6ci6spvTTHnADb3B fywWrKZWzqSyVVbDWKF/LTls3Sih1HnJjZREPIRXvpDGC3TzxtOpJmbTcr1aicm4/cZT Tbs2cjhptsYdFBRNWUARq/8bfIIV7rOEJksUUuYE7kuFPcJRIFWMOhBuc1kVtTiQjsPb Ph++XJBQ9v0dkjopcKd0Ox8cV0Yxes4zolrawmAUCNaC6vEwsqoNlvoSuV78zOWKuxGw S0qA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lSwuzbC70u52vrZjgtjSvyBQTZq++EF3NIApqC342ac=; b=aFvvfOaWQwFLh9Rj8HlwQm1t89cL+bbklePxt5/a9iilQfEYRyF2kqd8Hwb7SKnXct 2CkpRuAbugpzSCWhNkZ4BhKFSUzXvenPv/5ZmANprU9DrL6HY8MEh4fEzplMg0rN2/If aysqdadqCiFaU+sG1BX4JePe2arnXmPYhgUZSBDl9i4gXcad2Uq0MhYcqcG6nfo4NXxX YXbJU2E3p4YpnFAczO61CLceKnfvq0X9uuZGh7OVSm9XGqqp/Dvo+RBk8TL3z7YbX9sp yyfZOGgG1h9xFMbV2SlT2SZs/+2+fKgM5PuBCehGIzXWURfztePPpk9BHPO/NlNkqgq2 6icg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7xFfIaPXArLRV/7aLjudliW6IP85BzoJf5omUXruKJYJFRSSkJ /a3p+AXMUKwqm3HE+Eh+zd9Ktxh5OkN+dteGxbU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbGaj8Wo7KLj8/2xdWlMDx7PZZbzl6DJZR19iU3ajLsCUa8U+vy23NGyGrJbiQEwqA6HF4sejGiztQlsXgBHeI= X-Received: by 10.46.20.83 with SMTP id 19mr5417942lju.23.1512145694116; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:28:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.163.145 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:28:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Freddie Cash Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:28:13 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed To: Dieter BSD Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:28:16 -0000 On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 7:05 AM, Dieter BSD wrote: > Thought of another idea. When new people write in, asking > what they should work on, they receive a variety of suggestions. > I've seen quite a few of these over the years. I have NEVER seen > anyone suggest that they look at the open PRs and work on fixing them. > > Fixing open PRs should be the first, and probably only, suggestion. > =E2=80=8BYou're not looking very hard, then. That's generally the first th= ing suggested when people ask on the mailing lists how they can get involved. "Start by scanning through the PR database and find things that interest you. Find a piece of software that you like using that doesn't have a port maintainer and see if you can help with it. Find a piece of software you like that isn't in the ports tree and see if you can get a port created. Go through the various Wiki ToDo lists and Junior Jobs lists and see if there's anything that interests you. Etc." That's pretty much the list that =E2=80=8Beveryone suggests each time someo= ne asks. --=20 Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 16:28:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DF2BE5EFF3; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:28:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x229.google.com (mail-it0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C973867025; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:28:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x229.google.com with SMTP id r6so3036332itr.3; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:28:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sEYPllwoQaN9IR/rmhCZ7iW0s4oQBXwUingh+u8dihM=; b=IjK75wkzqxClQ3DgIE78wnvDaDeMKlNlWPZpkQT4xuuCbeHTdTiSOEdBcxFDwvqBMq 8LROVYOXfYrzWwQlC7nE4bRzuDn289VwynmwhLQsEsfDzfdLfVTgYIFkqWKjVpgHQygl mAfGKg8tbCHOWe9NqOGkQC519slhPUBO+qx467NdlmHqy8opOWdaOPk076g9XNN2w59I 6R+/K36qAWUFw6mgE8sQz79rByghzcs07EOhJRP6H7q+Hm9TwtykNXY1+/UrtvuqGjQE plWZgcRrjWOc+cpHvMZLfPhH7rYJm6sebT4KAXD2oS20AYevyjaDoEfhEMALsNvNGKeZ h5Rw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sEYPllwoQaN9IR/rmhCZ7iW0s4oQBXwUingh+u8dihM=; b=bbBDRBo1RtDM9qGfAKZcyXDXlNhg0tMcR5AE5GQL2uFUzqhgi+XD9Let2uFmPu4whv WwYWXmrwQXlFbi3fGbj21vcUYqUkhWRfOziV0AJqULmiGKKYLTg5SzzsrlBnz3LWCA5r 3ocJj5JNho93CNha4KN0zL/RD4+jadaZC1qRGDRPNoRTUuss7QSGv+w76uH5KTAi58AT 0ya9kaSOqydfDecg9HeR65Cl5A4t6N7Nb/+/vBlPGMz9S71woDzuNvt3bBJA4KIVWtnu E6h6tDunRPZWQT8wgrGvv9qWGN+XSC8vAyrEqmBOZ3RNN/4Kaq9QQhg7xmE0iWquOEg3 +ZhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLAo53SCEWukFgZt3uDriFm2zgAnBnje139M639Mu472h82oEHD Gf5VezJb+F1KPwEpxHb9bhLohMPNze1KGj0FpVk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbyjl8g8i8yRP9aonm0OREYpB53clsQPlDx8juZmToZz4YcHA1S/96O4Mxeb2qFHAmBW3lpmsLMNhA1Ld+ZK2s= X-Received: by 10.36.43.211 with SMTP id h202mr2482971ita.125.1512145735223; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:28:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.36.105.3 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:28:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:28:54 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed To: Dieter BSD Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:28:56 -0000 On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Dieter BSD wrote: > Thought of another idea. When new people write in, asking > what they should work on, they receive a variety of suggestions. > I've seen quite a few of these over the years. I have NEVER seen > anyone suggest that they look at the open PRs and work on fixing them. > > Fixing open PRs should be the first, and probably only, suggestion. > Almost everyone who suggests anything at all suggests doing just that! -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 16:33:03 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D888CE5F3D4 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:33:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A8526761E for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:33:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id vB1GXe7i064821; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:33:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: UDNSMS MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "FreeBSD Hackers" , "Dieter BSD" In-Reply-To: From: "Chris H" Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Freddie Cash" Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:33:46 -0800 Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:33:04 -0000 On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:28:13 -0800 "Freddie Cash" said > On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 7:05 AM, Dieter BSD wrote: >=20 > > Thought of another idea=2E When new people write in, asking > > what they should work on, they receive a variety of suggestions=2E > > I've seen quite a few of these over the years=2E I have NEVER seen > > anyone suggest that they look at the open PRs and work on fixing them=2E > > > > Fixing open PRs should be the first, and probably only, suggestion=2E > > >=20 > =E2=80=8BYou're not looking very hard, then=2E That's generally the first = thing > suggested when people ask on the mailing lists how they can get involved=2E >=20 > "Start by scanning through the PR database and find things that interest > you=2E Find a piece of software that you like using that doesn't have a po= rt > maintainer and see if you can help with it=2E Find a piece of software you > like that isn't in the ports tree and see if you can get a port created=2E > Go through the various Wiki ToDo lists and Junior Jobs lists and see if > there's anything that interests you=2E Etc=2E" >=20 > That's pretty much the list that =E2=80=8Beveryone suggests each time som= eone > asks=2E That's good news! :) >=20 > --=20 > Freddie Cash > fjwcash@gmail=2Ecom --Chris From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 16:48:39 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA44E5F996 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:48:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x22e.google.com (mail-lf0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4A6D67E2B for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:48:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 94so12379880lfy.10 for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:48:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lJTjTBpKCx7b5aiZKMKAmFlGM/Q+dgGWHtwf0ErZARY=; b=nqoLWUQVyO5cpc+MU1Pnr1WBNFnl/8YOtFx2RVscrwJPnV8A74TasAuqCdzfFBlnTS NF2HxV+hoCTaWvke+0HNtVtGmIhePQzVp6KFvKdgOx3wjno0ea6gRC7tJLW1s8II+H/z l+t8ACVMva4djhOI6HxUywjl5SPmaRKYXsO36INwdiS8XqZ2a2hqLVRw0KWu3BpvwZDw GnEhL11TnsGQa91pe+pSyPlbPcl8+xrElCWeCfUdzFVctaAQhilAVVEXXMKU29VyqR61 I+wNyWjUyhjBu9Tkbq+vBXi/a6OBosDrLV2iqDf7cSLoiDO1oBgk0nt6ulvSejSgySxp O0EA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lJTjTBpKCx7b5aiZKMKAmFlGM/Q+dgGWHtwf0ErZARY=; b=dzn86TX1pLmlsJA1wIxFUtnXAvI+a7kQhwHVE+/KnnqhFaBx+6ydUQs1nzAB0IfxxU YEFbqkj2JvJlFm8GFC4X0vznYfpQJp2I0R4h7M8BzkEL90EAv1OC9bqbDza8Zr/He4QI 9FS0P62synUqGdTXfy3fm1aSZ6I9jhg+xK3mC2z1i7tdBieQepjOuHl2UyGblM+W56gl Nvxavi1/27UA1rkjnwU+tIpiUBrexVsR8iFw0NOInnQgdLPSyxPIDyCdQwK/3TawSiAP YXuwkVSKphTk8flehN+oqNpoI9tLxrUATyt/BNjuMbAjIjW6P/4nmJx2dKfh8a5NaFl/ mT7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6RZRzzeYq3oGmSqCAvwHjBAvOqv4mOVBB2e4fKeb9LnzieC3hj qTIUjVR3YCNgyniXoRdIO/1yONkdi0kr4RKMMLE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMaDsqwhvSz+s0p1L+slUsYSRW0nTnNOxg1OeFkyVSpwT8W/rRa+lZC/exijJTZEYGtmxKnVe8El+vYXs1ok0UY= X-Received: by 10.25.80.6 with SMTP id e6mr4328919lfb.191.1512146916789; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 08:48:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.92.147 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:48:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=C3=ADa?= Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:48:36 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed To: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Cc: Freddie Cash , FreeBSD Hackers , Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:48:39 -0000 On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Chris H wrote: > On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:28:13 -0800 "Freddie Cash" said > >> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 7:05 AM, Dieter BSD wrote: >> >> > Thought of another idea. When new people write in, asking >> > what they should work on, they receive a variety of suggestions. >> > I've seen quite a few of these over the years. I have NEVER seen >> > anyone suggest that they look at the open PRs and work on fixing them. >> > >> > Fixing open PRs should be the first, and probably only, suggestion. Triage of the PR database would be needed as a requisite. Newcomers might want to start _trying_ to fix low hanging fruits. Some (not all) of the unresolved long standing PRs are there for a reason. >> > >> >> You're not looking very hard, then. That's generally the first thing >> suggested when people ask on the mailing lists how they can get involved. >> >> "Start by scanning through the PR database and find things that interest >> you. Find a piece of software that you like using that doesn't have a >> port >> maintainer and see if you can help with it. Find a piece of software you >> like that isn't in the ports tree and see if you can get a port created. >> Go through the various Wiki ToDo lists and Junior Jobs lists and see if >> there's anything that interests you. Etc." >> >> That's pretty much the list that everyone suggests each time someone >> asks. > > That's good news! :) >> >> >> -- >> Freddie Cash >> fjwcash@gmail.com > > > --Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 12:15:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5B7DFEF15; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:15:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9244C7F882; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:15:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7912739B; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:15:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vB1CFMcI003896 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:15:22 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vB1CFLbb003895; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:15:21 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: "Kristof Provost" cc: "Mike Remski" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Dieter BSD , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed [ was: Re: The future of fortune(6) ] In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <1306478885.37537.1512123855297@connect.xfinity.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3893.1512130521.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:15:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3894.1512130521@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 16:55:21 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:15:48 -0000 -------- In message , "Kristof Pr= ovost" writes: >Good bug reports are enormously valuable. A bug report with a clear = >reproduction scenario is vastly more likely to get fixed (quickly). In the Varnish Cache project I have set a very clear policy for bugreports: If they are not actionable (after interacting with the submitter), we close them, even if they are indicative of a bug. A bugreport which says "Crash under circumstances unknown" has no value for the developers. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 13:18:50 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE19AE54D88; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:300:2185:a:dead:bad:faff]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 685761DC7; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:18:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vB1DIkRH069398; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:18:46 GMT (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id vB1DIk4E069397; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:18:46 GMT (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <201712011318.vB1DIk4E069397@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:18:46 +0000 Organization: Dyslexic Fish To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@gmail.com Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]); Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:18:46 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 17:06:34 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:18:50 -0000 Dieter BSD wrote: > Dieter> Ignoring PRs for years and years and years and years... > > Mark> Please suggest a constructive solution. (This is a serious request.) > Recruiting additional developers might help. How to do that? I've been using FreeBSD both professionally and personally since 2.2.7-RELEASE and I've fixed various bugs over the years, but a year or so ago, I got fed up with the general indifference these last few years. I hate to say it, but I've now scripted all my systems to auto-patch new source with my own collection of bug fixes. Some I've submitted as PR's, some (especially the lesser important ones) I haven't. But now it means my fixes are automated for me without having to rely on upstream responding. I also have a few "is this really intended?" questions that were simply ignored. I'm not going to push them just in case the changes were intentional, and my pushing ends up annoying someone whose time I've wasted. But still, they are changes that break POLA and aren't documented, so, *shrug* My impulsive reaction to finding issues, however small, was to try and fix them, and report them. Now it's fix them, and automate the fixes to my systems. If I found a potential vulnerability I'd report it, but for the other stuff... maybe, if I have time, but if it's going to be ignored, why bother?, especially as it's not even possible to email PR's now... Requiring firing up a web browser, downloading whatever patch from the server to the desktop just to submit it on a form. You can't even do it through w3m/links/lynx! I don't want this to sound like an attack on any one in particular, or indeed, the project general. I'm most grateful to everyone, and there are many very dilligent people who I know would respond if I emailed them directly (but I'm not going to interrupt them like that) Still, the more often things are ignored, and the more people arbitarily remove stuff without warning, the less approchable the project seems, and the less likely it is that new volunteers will appear.. (even if you don't want a discussion, how about at least an announcement before the fact?) Cheers, Jamie From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 14:47:02 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200E1E57E26; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bluestop.org) Received: from muon.bluestop.org (muon.bluestop.org [IPv6:2605:7700:0:8:1:0:4a32:3323]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0317863F47; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bluestop.org) Received: from muon.bluestop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.bluestop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F112283F4A; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:46:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.bluestop.org ([127.0.0.1]) by muon.bluestop.org (muon.bluestop.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id uUBq_ptxzIIO; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:46:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.10.120] (c-73-131-237-119.hsd1.ut.comcast.net [73.131.237.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.bluestop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:46:53 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed From: Rebecca Cran X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15B202) In-Reply-To: <201712011318.vB1DIk4E069397@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 07:46:51 -0700 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@gmail.com, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201712011318.vB1DIk4E069397@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> To: Jamie Landeg-Jones X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 17:06:48 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:47:02 -0000 > On Dec 1, 2017, at 6:18 AM, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote: >=20 > I've been using FreeBSD both professionally and personally since > 2.2.7-RELEASE and I've fixed various bugs over the years, but a year or > so ago, I got fed up with the general indifference these last few years. I was just thinking about getting back into bug-busting for FreeBSD: a few y= ears ago when we were using GNATS we had a team that did triage, follow-ups e= tc. that made some progress. Was that effort wound-down with the move to Bug= zilla, or is the team still active? =E2=80=94=20 Rebecca Cran (brucec@)= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 17:39:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C9BE65C25 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com (mail-lf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88DAF698E1 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:39:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id t197so12552618lfe.7 for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4J2EpyivHci+6iosAM6MQmKrZWOfT0BWKN25QUOKE8s=; b=nBgLCbcMya863aVeKLwd/t97oHsOvK70FeV0vD3ydpT2R7a4Gpe9qnuphPZt3wWgZk I1zlYXlNp+xVBHrSW4fb8Oy1vDZPQhCsxMccEo7EwrgT59CJ3PFnxRDiPKxXREk2A+oR fcBw5i2BHRX2cD/kdt8tQQ09vvVf2yhdGom4zdwiGr/EFuocL9Vf4KyKx7h5+OG97COu 8n67mSXEX+HGqJxmiqy4QEEFmPHVPEoDjrs0P4cjNckoN6wzrKwwOODNGs1QiOmw1Qbi doqCaTque7HUsUZliq9SBiVz8zBR1Jwmi6LkV6L+lu8UxevgdVF+SbMdwMkXYBYOaDPa 90TQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4J2EpyivHci+6iosAM6MQmKrZWOfT0BWKN25QUOKE8s=; b=bQy1pag8NfYIRbsjysKl0PFSFNvPr+8EO0sMrfkK5StfwYILaA2eEB8BiHsZwpgxEf 6jC/wMu9eCbVgNXbbTwvGHS8YacGclmr3uJefWaHjbtXDq+68QdKzpfJLsbfNxBVNGaW sHnc5NhwxH7J7K6bNksRVuzMfM19POW4pjunoewiRrMyioRpjhz26EFBb4OhYGmJioU6 GiIa5VYdG3SDJx6NlMcHA4buZAvO9+rkcuxrmOal3ZW39urbdwe9k6eKp93Zf1au/0Di pPRwXE4UmSOEt4YZaaqyQvWjKYUQzWin42WAuemzLVvWflC1jgkdQ/mzjW/tIPwY7/w8 yHAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7eR0dUrFrBNMv5KgARUpH7IMZGe4TsEJvIWqzMlMQ5tomyAaPm 9Mr78Up5qSCa6S2+56fT2vtjcEV9cgf+EHOyEvU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMb8LgKn+nKLWC0L1PzJ/+Q6klvhW2jP41Z5BwNIAlrvOcD52VavvoTuy3ang4pB3epDqayzDYAsSubmVLN99pY= X-Received: by 10.25.81.65 with SMTP id f62mr4356532lfb.148.1512149963149; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:39:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.163.145 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:39:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201712011318.vB1DIk4E069397@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> From: Freddie Cash Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:39:22 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed To: Rebecca Cran Cc: Jamie Landeg-Jones , FreeBSD Hackers , Dieter BSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 17:39:27 -0000 On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Rebecca Cran wrote: > > > On Dec 1, 2017, at 6:18 AM, Jamie Landeg-Jones > wrote: > > > > I've been using FreeBSD both professionally and personally since > > 2.2.7-RELEASE and I've fixed various bugs over the years, but a year or > > so ago, I got fed up with the general indifference these last few years= . > > I was just thinking about getting back into bug-busting for FreeBSD: a fe= w > years ago when we were using GNATS we had a team that did triage, > follow-ups etc. that made some progress. Was that effort wound-down with > the move to Bugzilla, or is the team still active? > =E2=80=8BI don't know about triage, as in determining priority for specific= bugs, but there is a team that goes through the bug database assigning bugs to individuals and teams, and updating the Subject: line to better reflect the issue in the bug. =E2=80=8B --=20 Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 18:29:02 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44C38E67125; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:29:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hiren@strugglingcoder.info) Received: from mail.strugglingcoder.info (strugglingcoder.info [104.236.146.68]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3596B7C1; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:29:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hiren@strugglingcoder.info) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.1.1.3]) (Authenticated sender: hiren@strugglingcoder.info) by mail.strugglingcoder.info (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A69221753C; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:22:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 10:22:50 -0800 From: hiren panchasara To: Rebecca Cran Cc: Jamie Landeg-Jones , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, dieterbsd@gmail.com, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed Message-ID: <20171201182250.GC63455@strugglingcoder.info> References: <201712011318.vB1DIk4E069397@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hOcCNbCCxyk/YU74" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 18:29:02 -0000 --hOcCNbCCxyk/YU74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/01/17 at 07:46P, Rebecca Cran wrote: >=20 > > On Dec 1, 2017, at 6:18 AM, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrot= e: > >=20 > > I've been using FreeBSD both professionally and personally since > > 2.2.7-RELEASE and I've fixed various bugs over the years, but a year or > > so ago, I got fed up with the general indifference these last few years. >=20 > I was just thinking about getting back into bug-busting for FreeBSD: a fe= w years ago when we were using GNATS we had a team that did triage, follow-= ups etc. that made some progress. Was that effort wound-down with the move = to Bugzilla, or is the team still active? > https://www.freebsd.org/administration.html#t-bugmeister And yes, they'd love some help. Cheers, Hiren --hOcCNbCCxyk/YU74 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQF8BAABCgBmBQJaIZ33XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRBNEUyMEZBMUQ4Nzg4RjNGMTdFNjZGMDI4 QjkyNTBFMTU2M0VERkU1AAoJEIuSUOFWPt/lWxQIAIaZsVAi2pk03Rof13CbVB/k tqxBzidkYN7uo++5Cfr7rAsQBQArbfWYk+MCClUFNIvm6hOyBIveMhOeAmVyL+DS qOq44HNAg3kdjX2K50xkEQM252UC/s1/folEGMgj8Zlvdweytgw0EniaFD/DK+i6 qZYY9APP3gvosMGPxD0UgPaQdQ19zR958fQDPB6qQYa+HnHY7Hgfbve+7tZ5HTZE 6a1Zfs17EFC4JIti6+du/ckvuUNvsML1wX/jKOJ1APji834KHostbh5B0qDEofFf dyRb0EHTbF2Ng86XFjTG1e2X3IvOps9ld34V79fY6iF4V60MciZ6nHacA4ND66s= =k/yu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hOcCNbCCxyk/YU74-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 18:58:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE75E67CFC; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:58:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bluestop.org) Received: from muon.bluestop.org (muon.bluestop.org [74.50.51.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 078B56C8C4; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:58:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bluestop.org) Received: from muon.bluestop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by muon.bluestop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1EC1886C6; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from muon.bluestop.org ([127.0.0.1]) by muon.bluestop.org (muon.bluestop.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id SxIMIF_6Ltlj; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.0.10.120] (c-73-131-237-119.hsd1.ut.comcast.net [73.131.237.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by muon.bluestop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 18:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Getting PRs fixed From: Rebecca Cran X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15B202) In-Reply-To: <20171201182250.GC63455@strugglingcoder.info> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:58:52 -0700 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jamie Landeg-Jones , dieterbsd@gmail.com, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <93CA327B-4792-4A7D-97CF-33B299C2A8B4@bluestop.org> References: <201712011318.vB1DIk4E069397@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <20171201182250.GC63455@strugglingcoder.info> To: hiren panchasara X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 18:58:56 -0000 > On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:22 AM, hiren panchasara = wrote: >=20 > https://www.freebsd.org/administration.html#t-bugmeister > And yes, they'd love some help. Oh, great, thanks! I might see if I can get the FreeBSD-bugbusters ml active= again too, since it seems to have been just collecting spam for a while. =E2=80=94=20 Rebecca= From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 00:35:50 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 567C2DBBEE0 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 00:35:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3662579357 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 00:35:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vB20ZnCq037893 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:35:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vB20Zncr037892 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:35:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:35:49 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: [PATCH] remove trailing whitespace Message-ID: <20171202003549.GA37878@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 00:35:50 -0000 Subject says it all. Index: src/e_pow.c =================================================================== --- src/e_pow.c (revision 2043) +++ src/e_pow.c (working copy) @@ -4,7 +4,7 @@ * Copyright (C) 2004 by Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. * * Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this - * software is freely granted, provided that this notice + * software is freely granted, provided that this notice * is preserved. * ==================================================== */ @@ -19,7 +19,7 @@ * 1. Compute and return log2(x) in two pieces: * log2(x) = w1 + w2, * where w1 has 53-24 = 29 bit trailing zeros. - * 2. Perform y*log2(x) = n+y' by simulating multi-precision + * 2. Perform y*log2(x) = n+y' by simulating multi-precision * arithmetic, where |y'|<=0.5. * 3. Return x**y = 2**n*exp(y'*log2) * @@ -47,13 +47,13 @@ * Accuracy: * pow(x,y) returns x**y nearly rounded. In particular * pow(integer,integer) - * always returns the correct integer provided it is + * always returns the correct integer provided it is * representable. * * Constants : - * The hexadecimal values are the intended ones for the following - * constants. The decimal values may be used, provided that the - * compiler will convert from decimal to binary accurately enough + * The hexadecimal values are the intended ones for the following + * constants. The decimal values may be used, provided that the + * compiler will convert from decimal to binary accurately enough * to produce the hexadecimal values shown. */ @@ -107,7 +107,7 @@ ix = hx&0x7fffffff; iy = hy&0x7fffffff; /* y==zero: x**0 = 1 */ - if((iy|ly)==0) return one; + if((iy|ly)==0) return one; /* x==1: 1**y = 1, even if y is NaN */ if (hx==0x3ff00000 && lx == 0) return one; @@ -114,7 +114,7 @@ /* y!=zero: result is NaN if either arg is NaN */ if(ix > 0x7ff00000 || ((ix==0x7ff00000)&&(lx!=0)) || - iy > 0x7ff00000 || ((iy==0x7ff00000)&&(ly!=0))) + iy > 0x7ff00000 || ((iy==0x7ff00000)&&(ly!=0))) return (x+0.0)+(y+0.0); /* determine if y is an odd int when x < 0 @@ -123,7 +123,7 @@ * yisint = 2 ... y is an even int */ yisint = 0; - if(hx<0) { + if(hx<0) { if(iy>=0x43400000) yisint = 2; /* even integer y */ else if(iy>=0x3ff00000) { k = (iy>>20)-0x3ff; /* exponent */ @@ -134,11 +134,11 @@ j = iy>>(20-k); if((j<<(20-k))==iy) yisint = 2-(j&1); } - } - } + } + } /* special value of y */ - if(ly==0) { + if(ly==0) { if (iy==0x7ff00000) { /* y is +-inf */ if(((ix-0x3ff00000)|lx)==0) return one; /* (-1)**+-inf is 1 */ @@ -153,7 +153,7 @@ if(hy==0x40000000) return x*x; /* y is 2 */ if(hy==0x3fe00000) { /* y is 0.5 */ if(hx>=0) /* x >= +0 */ - return sqrt(x); + return sqrt(x); } } @@ -166,13 +166,13 @@ if(hx<0) { if(((ix-0x3ff00000)|yisint)==0) { z = (z-z)/(z-z); /* (-1)**non-int is NaN */ - } else if(yisint==1) + } else if(yisint==1) z = -z; /* (x<0)**odd = -(|x|**odd) */ } return z; } } - + /* CYGNUS LOCAL + fdlibm-5.3 fix: This used to be n = (hx>>31)+1; but ANSI C says a right shift of a signed negative quantity is @@ -194,7 +194,7 @@ /* over/underflow if x is not close to one */ if(ix<0x3fefffff) return (hy<0)? s*huge*huge:s*tiny*tiny; if(ix>0x3ff00000) return (hy>0)? s*huge*huge:s*tiny*tiny; - /* now |1-x| is tiny <= 2**-20, suffice to compute + /* now |1-x| is tiny <= 2**-20, suffice to compute log(x) by x-x^2/2+x^3/3-x^4/4 */ t = ax-one; /* t has 20 trailing zeros */ w = (t*t)*(0.5-t*(0.3333333333333333333333-t*0.25)); @@ -287,7 +287,7 @@ n = ((n&0x000fffff)|0x00100000)>>(20-k); if(j<0) n = -n; p_h -= t; - } + } t = p_l+p_h; SET_LOW_WORD(t,0); u = t*lg2_h; -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 00:47:20 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5408DEB651 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 00:47:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from allanjude@freebsd.org) Received: from mx1.scaleengine.net (mx1.scaleengine.net [209.51.186.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7FC37998E for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 00:47:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from allanjude@freebsd.org) Received: from [10.1.1.2] (Seawolf.HML3.ScaleEngine.net [209.51.186.28]) (Authenticated sender: allanjude.freebsd@scaleengine.com) by mx1.scaleengine.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D525113299 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 00:47:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH] remove trailing whitespace To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <20171202003549.GA37878@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Allan Jude Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:47:18 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20171202003549.GA37878@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 00:47:21 -0000 On 2017-12-01 19:35, Steve Kargl wrote: > Subject says it all. > > Index: src/e_pow.c > =================================================================== > --- src/e_pow.c (revision 2043) > +++ src/e_pow.c (working copy) Which file is this changing? The path does not seem to be relative to the top of the source tree -- Allan Jude From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 01:04:08 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16607DEBC7B for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 01:04:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF8827A28C; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 01:04:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vB2147Qf038119 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:04:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vB2147D4038118; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:04:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:04:07 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Allan Jude Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] remove trailing whitespace Message-ID: <20171202010407.GA38110@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20171202003549.GA37878@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 01:04:08 -0000 On Fri, Dec 01, 2017 at 07:47:18PM -0500, Allan Jude wrote: > On 2017-12-01 19:35, Steve Kargl wrote: > > Subject says it all. > > > > Index: src/e_pow.c > > =================================================================== > > --- src/e_pow.c (revision 2043) > > +++ src/e_pow.c (working copy) > > Which file is this changing? The path does not seem to be relative to > the top of the source tree > Sorry about that. src/lib/msun/src/e_pow.c -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 01:13:06 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74225DEC1A0 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 01:13:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingegneriaforense@alice.it) Received: from smtp301.alice.it (smtp301.alice.it [82.57.200.117]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620A97AA5E for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 01:13:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingegneriaforense@alice.it) Received: from feu33-alice (82.57.205.51) by smtp301.alice.it (8.6.060.43) id 5A1260FA009CAE73; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 02:13:02 +0100 Received: from (5.179.142.232) by webmail33e.pc.tim.it; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 02:13:02 +0100 Message-ID: <16014c8a61a.ingegneriaforense@alice.it> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 02:13:02 +0100 (CET) From: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it" Reply-To: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB_ERR_IOERR: is usb controller electrically "broken" ? Cc: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com, hps@selasky.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_38664_12050326.1512177182241" X-Originating-IP: 5.179.142.232:51341 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 01:13:06 -0000 ------=_Part_38664_12050326.1512177182241 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ORIGINAL QUESTION: During the freebsd installation I receive some messages: >> usbd_req_re_enumerate: addre=3, set address failed (USB_ERR_IOERROR, ignored) >> usbd_setup_device_desc: getting device descriptor at addr 3 failed, >> USB_ERR_IOERROR ugen0.3: at usbus0 (disconnected) >> uhub_reattach_port: could not allocate new device 1. Please, can you tell me what this means ? Maybe is the USB controller electrically "broken" or is due to a no correct software configuration of its parameters ? These messages are shown during the whole installation process overwriting my terminal and the sysinstall windows also. Is a way to avoid this behaviour, configuring the freebsd installation ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello guys, thanks for your reply. I'm so sorry but the problem is very tedious to solve. I set off the verbose option in the freebsd boot menu; then I've checked the loader.conf file in BOOT/DEFOULT directory. It seems that the verbose options are set off in this file. I've attached a copy of it, taken from my boot CD. Please, other tips are welcome. Thanks very much. vincenzo. Forensic Consultant Tribunale di Lecce Studio: Strada di Garibaldi - Contrada Paradisi 73010 Lequile (LE) cell: 339.7968555 skype: vincenzo.di_salvo ------=_Part_38664_12050326.1512177182241 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=LOADER.CONF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=LOADER.CONF; size=26089 # This is loader.conf - a file full of useful variables that you can # set to change the default load behavior of your system. You should # not edit this file! Put any overrides into one of the # loader_conf_files instead and you will be able to update these # defaults later without spamming your local configuration information. # # All arguments must be in double quotes. # # $FreeBSD: stable/11/sys/boot/forth/loader.conf 322087 2017-08-05 09:40:56Z trasz $ ############################################################## ### Basic configuration options ############################ ############################################################## exec="echo Loading /boot/defaults/loader.conf" kernel="kernel" # /boot sub-directory containing kernel and modules bootfile="kernel" # Kernel name (possibly absolute path) kernel_options="" # Flags to be passed to the kernel loader_conf_files="/boot/device.hints /boot/loader.conf /boot/loader.conf.local" nextboot_conf="/boot/nextboot.conf" nextboot_enable="NO" verbose_loading="NO" # Set to YES for verbose loader output ############################################################## ### Splash screen configuration ############################ ############################################################## splash_bmp_load="NO" # Set this to YES for bmp splash screen! splash_pcx_load="NO" # Set this to YES for pcx splash screen! splash_txt_load="NO" # Set this to YES for TheDraw splash screen! vesa_load="NO" # Set this to YES to load the vesa module bitmap_load="NO" # Set this to YES if you want splash screen! bitmap_name="splash.bmp" # Set this to the name of the file bitmap_type="splash_image_data" # and place it on the module_path ############################################################## ### Random number generator configuration ################## ############################################################## # See rc.conf(5). The entropy_boot_file config variable must agree with the # settings below. entropy_cache_load="YES" # Set this to NO to disable loading # entropy at boot time entropy_cache_name="/boot/entropy" # Set this to the name of the file entropy_cache_type="/boot/entropy" # Required for the kernel to find # the boot-time entropy cache. This # must not change value even if the # _name above does change! ############################################################## ### RAM Blacklist configuration ############################ ############################################################## ram_blacklist_load="NO" # Set this to YES to load a file # containing a list of addresses to # exclude from the running system. ram_blacklist_name="/boot/blacklist.txt" # Set this to the name of the file ram_blacklist_type="ram_blacklist" # Required for the kernel to find # the blacklist module ############################################################## ### Initial memory disk settings ########################### ############################################################## #mdroot_load="YES" # The "mdroot" prefix is arbitrary. #mdroot_type="md_image" # Create md(4) disk at boot. #mdroot_name="/boot/root.img" # Path to a file containing the image. #rootdev="ufs:/dev/md0" # Set the root filesystem to md(4) device. ############################################################## ### Loader settings ######################################## ############################################################## #loader_delay="3" # Delay in seconds before loading anything. # Default is unset and disabled (no delay). #autoboot_delay="10" # Delay in seconds before autobooting, # set to -1 if you don't want user to be # allowed to interrupt autoboot process and # escape to the loader prompt, set to # "NO" to disable autobooting #password="" # Prevent changes to boot options #bootlock_password="" # Prevent booting (see check-password.4th(8)) #geom_eli_passphrase_prompt="NO" # Prompt for geli(8) passphrase to mount root bootenv_autolist="YES" # Auto populate the list of ZFS Boot Environments #beastie_disable="NO" # Turn the beastie boot menu on and off #kernels="kernel kernel.old" # Kernels to display in the boot menu #loader_logo="orbbw" # Desired logo: orbbw, orb, fbsdbw, beastiebw, beastie, none #comconsole_speed="9600" # Set the current serial console speed #console="vidconsole" # A comma separated list of console(s) #currdev="disk1s1a" # Set the current device module_path="/boot/modules" # Set the module search path #prompt="\\${interpret}" # Set the command prompt #root_disk_unit="0" # Force the root disk unit number #rootdev="disk1s1a" # Set the root filesystem #dumpdev="disk1s1b" # Set a dump device early in the boot process #tftp.blksize="1428" # Set the RFC 2348 TFTP block size. # If the TFTP server does not support RFC 2348, # the block size is set to 512. If the value # is out of range ( < 8 || > 9008 ) an error is # returned. #twiddle_divisor="1" # >1 means slow down the progress indicator. ############################################################## ### Kernel settings ######################################## ############################################################## # The following boot_ variables are enabled by setting them to any value. # Their presence in the kernel environment (see kenv(1)) has the same # effect as setting the given boot flag (see boot(8)). #boot_askname="" # -a: Prompt the user for the name of the root device #boot_cdrom="" # -C: Attempt to mount root file system from CD-ROM #boot_ddb="" # -d: Instructs the kernel to start in the DDB debugger #boot_dfltroot="" # -r: Use the statically configured root file system #boot_gdb="" # -g: Selects gdb-remote mode for the kernel debugger #boot_multicons="" # -D: Use multiple consoles #boot_mute="" # -m: Mute the console #boot_pause="" # -p: Pause after each line during device probing #boot_serial="" # -h: Use serial console #boot_single="" # -s: Start system in single-user mode #boot_verbose="" # -v: Causes extra debugging information to be printed #init_path="/sbin/init:/sbin/oinit:/sbin/init.bak:/rescue/init" # Sets the list of init candidates #init_shell="/bin/sh" # The shell binary used by init(8). #init_script="" # Initial script to run by init(8) before chrooting. #init_chroot="" # Directory for init(8) to chroot into. ############################################################## ### Kernel tunables ######################################## ############################################################## #hw.physmem="1G" # Limit physical memory. See loader(8) #kern.dfldsiz="" # Set the initial data size limit #kern.dflssiz="" # Set the initial stack size limit #kern.hz="100" # Set the kernel interval timer rate #kern.maxbcache="" # Set the max buffer cache KVA storage #kern.maxdsiz="" # Set the max data size #kern.maxfiles="" # Set the sys. wide open files limit #kern.maxproc="" # Set the maximum # of processes #kern.maxssiz="" # Set the max stack size #kern.maxswzone="" # Set the max swmeta KVA storage #kern.maxtsiz="" # Set the max text size #kern.maxusers="32" # Set size of various static tables #kern.msgbufsize="65536" # Set size of kernel message buffer #kern.nbuf="" # Set the number of buffer headers #kern.ncallout="" # Set the maximum # of timer events #kern.ngroups="1023" # Set the maximum # of supplemental groups #kern.sgrowsiz="" # Set the amount to grow stack #kern.cam.boot_delay="10000" # Delay (in ms) of root mount for CAM bus # registration, useful for USB sticks as root #kern.cam.scsi_delay="2000" # Delay (in ms) before probing SCSI #kern.ipc.maxsockets="" # Set the maximum number of sockets available #kern.ipc.nmbclusters="" # Set the number of mbuf clusters #kern.ipc.nsfbufs="" # Set the number of sendfile(2) bufs #net.inet.tcp.tcbhashsize="" # Set the value of TCBHASHSIZE #vfs.root.mountfrom="" # Specify root partition in a way the # kernel understands #vm.kmem_size="" # Sets the size of kernel memory (bytes) #debug.kdb.break_to_debugger="0" # Allow console to break into debugger. #debug.ktr.cpumask="0xf" # Bitmask of CPUs to enable KTR on #debug.ktr.mask="0x1200" # Bitmask of KTR events to enable #debug.ktr.verbose="1" # Enable console dump of KTR events #net.graph.maxalloc="128" # Maximum number of queue items to allocate ############################################################## ### ATA modules ############################################ ############################################################## ataacard_load="NO" # ACARD ataacerlabs_load="NO" # Acer Labs Inc. (ALI) ataamd_load="NO" # American Micro Devices (AMD) ataati_load="NO" # ATI atacenatek_load="NO" # Cenatek atacypress_load="NO" # Cypress atacyrix_load="NO" # Cyrix atahighpoint_load="NO" # HighPoint ataintel_load="NO" # Intel ataite_load="NO" # Integrated Technology Inc. (ITE) atajmicron_load="NO" # JMicron atamarvell_load="NO" # Marvell atamicron_load="NO" # Micron atanational_load="NO" # National atanetcell_load="NO" # NetCell atanvidia_load="NO" # nVidia atapromise_load="NO" # Promise ataserverworks_load="NO" # ServerWorks atasiliconimage_load="NO" # Silicon Image Inc. (SiI) (formerly CMD) atasis_load="NO" # Silicon Integrated Systems Corp.(SiS) atavia_load="NO" # VIA Technologies Inc. ############################################################## ### Filesystem and related modules ######################### ############################################################## # Filesystems cd9660_load="NO" # ISO 9660 filesystem fdescfs_load="NO" # Filedescriptors filesystem linprocfs_load="NO" # Linux compatibility process filesystem linsysfs_load="NO" # Linux compatibility system filesystem msdosfs_load="NO" # FAT-12/16/32 nfsclient_load="NO" # NFS client nfsserver_load="NO" # NFS server nullfs_load="NO" # Null filesystem procfs_load="NO" # Process filesystem unionfs_load="NO" # Union filesystem zfs_load="NO" # ZFS # Related stuff geom_bde_load="NO" # Disk encryption driver (see gbde(4,8)) geom_ccd_load="NO" # Concatenated disk driver (see ccd(4), # ccdconfig(8)) geom_concat_load="NO" # Concatenated disk driver (see gconcat(8)) geom_eli_load="NO" # Disk encryption driver (see geli(8)) geom_gate_load="NO" # Userland disk driver (see geom_gate(4), # ggatec(8), ggated(8), ggatel(8)) geom_journal_load="NO" # Journaled filesystem driver (see gjournal(8)) geom_label_load="NO" # File system labels (see glabel(8)) geom_md_load="NO" # Memory disk driver (vnode/swap/malloc) (see # md(4), mdconfig(8)) geom_mirror_load="NO" # RAID1 disk driver (see gmirror(8)) geom_mountver_load="NO" # Mount verification disk driver geom_nop_load="NO" # Transparent disk driver (see gnop(8)) geom_raid3_load="NO" # RAID3 disk driver (see graid3(8)) geom_shsec_load="NO" # Shared secret disk driver (see gshsec(8)) geom_stripe_load="NO" # RAID0 disk driver (see gstripe(8)) geom_uzip_load="NO" # Compressed disk images driver (see mkuzip(8)) geom_vinum_load="NO" # Concatenated/mirror/raid driver (see vinum(4)) ############################################################## ### FireWire modules ####################################### ############################################################## firewire_load="NO" # IEEE1394 High-performance Serial Bus fwe_load="NO" # Ethernet emulation driver for FireWire fwip_load="NO" # IP over FireWire driver fwohci_load="NO" # OHCI FireWire chipset device driver sbp_load="NO" # SBP-2 Mass Storage Devices driver sbp_targ_load="NO" # SBP-2 Target mode ############################################################## ### Screen saver modules ################################### ############################################################## # This is best done in rc.conf screensave_load="NO" # Set to YES to load a screensaver module screensave_name="green_saver" # Set to the name of the screensaver module ############################################################## ### Emulation modules ###################################### ############################################################## cloudabi_load="NO" # Platform independent CloudABI support cloudabi64_load="NO" # 64-bit CloudABI executables support ibcs2_load="NO" # IBCS2 (SCO) emulation ibcs2_coff_load="NO" linux_load="NO" # Linux emulation svr4_load="NO" # SystemV R4 emulation streams_load="NO" # System V streams module ############################################################## ### Networking modules ##################################### ############################################################## if_disc_load="NO" # Discard device if_ef_load="NO" # pseudo-device providing support for multiple # ethernet frame types if_epair_load="NO" # Virtual b-t-b Ethernet-like interface pair if_gif_load="NO" # generic tunnel interface if_gre_load="NO" # encapsulating network device if_stf_load="NO" # 6to4 tunnel interface if_tap_load="NO" # Ethernet tunnel software network interface if_tun_load="NO" # Tunnel driver (user process ppp) if_vlan_load="NO" # IEEE 802.1Q VLAN network interface ipfw_load="NO" # Firewall pf_load="NO" # packet filter ############################################################## ### Networking drivers ##################################### ############################################################## bridgestp_load="NO" # if_bridge(4) support miibus_load="NO" # miibus support, needed for some drivers carp_load="NO" # carp(4) protocol if_ae_load="NO" # Attansic/Atheros L2 FastEthernet if_age_load="NO" # Attansic/Atheros L1 Gigabit Ethernet if_alc_load="NO" # Atheros AR8131/AR8132 Ethernet if_ale_load="NO" # Atheros AR8121/AR8113/AR8114 Ethernet if_an_load="NO" # Aironet 4500/4800 802.11 wireless NICs if_ath_load="NO" # Atheros IEEE 802.11 wireless NICs if_aue_load="NO" # ADMtek AN986 Pegasus USB Ethernet if_axe_load="NO" # ASIX Electronics AX88172 USB Ethernet if_bce_load="NO" # Broadcom NetXtreme II Gigabit Ethernet if_bfe_load="NO" # Broadcom BCM4401 if_bge_load="NO" # Broadcom BCM570x PCI Gigabit Ethernet if_bnxt_load="NO" # Broadcom NetXtreme-C/NetXtreme-E if_bridge_load="NO" # if_bridge(4) devices if_bwi_load="NO" # Broadcom BCM53xx IEEE 802.11b/g wireness NICs if_bwn_load="NO" # Broadcom BCM43xx IEEE 802.11 wireless NICs if_bxe_load="NO" # Broadcom NetXtreme II 10Gb Ethernet if_cas_load="NO" # Sun Cassini/Cassini+ and NS DP83065 Saturn if_cm_load="NO" # SMC (90c26, 90c56, 90c66) if_cs_load="NO" # Crystal Semiconductor CS8920 if_cue_load="NO" # CATC USB-EL1210A USB Ethernet if_cxgb_load="NO" # Chelsio T3 10 Gigabit Ethernet if_cxgbe_load="NO" # Chelsio T4/T5/T6 1/10/25/40/100 Gigabit Ethernet if_dc_load="NO" # DEC/Intel 21143 and various workalikes if_de_load="NO" # DEC DC21x4x Ethernet if_ed_load="NO" # National Semiconductor DS8390/WD83C690 # Ethernet if_em_load="NO" # Intel(R) PRO/1000 Gigabit Ethernet if_en_load="NO" # Midway-based ATM interfaces if_ep_load="NO" # 3Com Etherlink III (3c5x9) if_et_load="NO" # Agere ET1310 10/100/Gigabit Ethernet if_ex_load="NO" # Intel EtherExpress Pro/10 Ethernet if_fatm_load="NO" # Fore PCA200E ATM if_fe_load="NO" # Fujitsu MB86960A/MB86965A based Ethernet # adapters if_fxp_load="NO" # Intel EtherExpress PRO/100B (82557, 82558) if_gem_load="NO" # Sun GEM/Sun ERI/Apple GMAC if_hatm_load="NO" # Fore/Marconi HE155 and HE622 if_hme_load="NO" # Sun Microelectronics STP2002-STQ Ethernet if_ie_load="NO" # Intel 82586 if_igb_load="NO" # Intel(R) PRO/1000 Gigabit Ethernet if_ipw_load="NO" # Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 wireless if_iwi_load="NO" # Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG/2225BG/2915ABG # wireless if_iwn_load="NO" # Intel Wireless WiFi Link 802.11n wireless if_ixgb_load="NO" # Intel PRO/10Gb Ethernet if_ixgbe_load="NO" # Intel PRO/10Gb Ethernet PCI Express if_ixl_load="NO" # Intel XL710 Ethernet 40Gb Base driver if_ixlv_load="NO" # Intel XL710 Ethernet 40Gb VF driver if_jme_load="NO" # JMicron JMC250 Gigabit/JMC260 Fast Ethernet if_lagg_load="NO" # lagg(4) devices if_le_load="NO" # AMD Am7900 LANCE and Am79C9xx PCnet if_lge_load="NO" # Level 1 LXT1001 NetCellerator PCI Gigabit # Ethernet if_malo_load="NO" # Marvell Libertas 88W8335 802.11 wireless # adapter if_msk_load="NO" # Marvell/SysKonnect Yukon II Gigabit Ethernet if_mxge_load="NO" # Myricom Myri10GE 10Gb Ethernet if_my_load="NO" # Myson PCI Fast Ethernet if_nfe_load="NO" # NVIDIA nForce MCP Networking Adapter if_nge_load="NO" # National Semiconductor PCI Gigabit Ethernet if_nxge_load="NO" # Neterion Xframe 10Gb Ethernet if_patm_load="NO" # IDT77252 ATM if_pcn_load="NO" # AMD PCnet PCI if_ral_load="NO" # Ralink Technology wireless if_re_load="NO" # RealTek 8139C+/8169/8169S/8110S if_rl_load="NO" # RealTek 8129/8139 if_rue_load="NO" # RealTek RTL8150 USB to Fast Ethernet if_rum_load="NO" # Ralink Technology USB 802.11a/b/g wireless if_run_load="NO" # Ralink Technology USB 802.11a/g/n wireless if_sbni_load="NO" # Granch SBNI12 leased line adapters if_sf_load="NO" # Adaptec Duralink PCI (AIC-6915 "starfire") if_sge_load="NO" # Silicon Integrated Systems SiS 190/191 if_sis_load="NO" # Silicon Integrated Systems SiS 900/7016 if_sk_load="NO" # SysKonnect SK-984x series PCI Gigabit Ethernet if_sn_load="NO" # SMC 91Cxx if_ste_load="NO" # Sundance Technologies ST201 Fast Ethernet if_stge_load="NO" # Sundance/Tamarack TC9021 Gigabit Ethernet if_ti_load="NO" # Alteon Networks Tigon 1 and Tigon 2 if_tl_load="NO" # Texas Instruments TNETE100 ("ThunderLAN") if_tx_load="NO" # SMC 83c17x Fast Ethernet if_txp_load="NO" # 3Com 3XP Typhoon/Sidewinder (3CR990) if_vge_load="NO" # VIA VT6122 PCI Gigabit Ethernet if_vte_load="NO" # DM&P Vortex86 RDC R6040 Fast Ethernet if_uath_load="NO" # Atheros USB wireless for AR5005UG & AR5005UX if_udav_load="NO" # Davicom DM9601 USB Ethernet if_upgt_load="NO" # Conexant/Intersil PrismGT USB wireless if_ural_load="NO" # Ralink Technology USB wireless if_urtw_load="NO" # Realtek 8187L USB wireless if_vr_load="NO" # VIA Rhine I and Rhine II if_vx_load="NO" # 3Com 3C590 family if_wb_load="NO" # Winbond W89C840F if_wi_load="NO" # WaveLAN/IEEE 802.11 wireless NICs if_wpi_load="NO" # Intel 3945ABG Wireless LAN IEEE 802.11 if_xe_load="NO" # Xircom CreditCard PCMCIA if_xl_load="NO" # 3Com Etherlink XL (3c900, 3c905, 3c905B) sfxge_load="NO" # Solarflare 10Gb Ethernet adapter driver utopia_load="NO" # ATM PHY driver ############################################################## ### Netgraph modules ####################################### ############################################################## ng_UI_load="NO" # UI netgraph node type ng_async_load="NO" # asynchronous framing netgraph node type ng_bpf_load="NO" # Berkeley packet filter netgraph node type ng_bridge_load="NO" # Ethernet bridging netgraph node type ng_cisco_load="NO" # Cisco HDLC protocol netgraph node type ng_echo_load="NO" # Netgraph echo node type ng_eiface_load="NO" # generic Ethernet interface netgraph node type ng_etf_load="NO" # Ethertype filtering netgraph node type ng_ether_load="NO" # Ethernet netgraph node type ng_frame_relay_load="NO" # frame relay netgraph node type ng_gif_load="NO" # generic tunnel interface netgraph node type ng_gif_demux_load="NO" # demultiplexer for packets from ng_gif(4) nodes ng_hole_load="NO" # Netgraph discard node type ng_hub_load="NO" # packet distribution netgraph node type ng_iface_load="NO" # interface Netgraph node type ng_ip_input_load="NO" # netgraph IP input node type ng_ksocket_load="NO" # kernel socket netgraph node type ng_l2tp_load="NO" # L2TP protocol netgraph node type ng_lmi_load="NO" # frame relay LMI protocol netgraph node type ng_mppc_load="NO" # Microsoft MPPC/MPPE compression and # encryption netgraph node type ng_netflow_load="NO" # Cisco's NetFlow netgraph node type ng_one2many_load="NO" # packet multiplexing netgraph node type ng_ppp_load="NO" # PPP protocol netgraph node type ng_pppoe_load="NO" # RFC 2516 PPPOE protocol netgraph node type ng_pptpgre_load="NO" # PPTP GRE protocol netgraph node type ng_rfc1490_load="NO" # RFC 1490 netgraph node type ng_socket_load="NO" # Netgraph socket node type ng_split_load="NO" # netgraph node to separate incoming and # outgoing flows ng_sppp_load="NO" # sppp netgraph node type ng_tee_load="NO" # Netgraph ``tee'' node type ng_tty_load="NO" # Netgraph node type that is also a line # discipline ng_vjc_load="NO" # Van Jacobsen compression netgraph node type ng_vlan_load="NO" # IEEE 802.1Q VLAN tagging netgraph node type ############################################################## ### Sound modules ########################################## ############################################################## sound_load="NO" # Digital sound subsystem snd_ad1816_load="NO" # ad1816 snd_als4000_load="NO" # als4000 snd_atiixp_load="NO" # atiixp snd_cmi_load="NO" # cmi snd_cs4281_load="NO" # cs4281 snd_csa_load="NO" # csa snd_ds1_load="NO" # ds1 snd_emu10k1_load="NO" # Creative Sound Blaster Live snd_emu10kx_load="NO" # Creative SoundBlaster Live! and Audigy snd_envy24_load="NO" # VIA Envy24 snd_envy24ht_load="NO" # VIA Envy24HT snd_es137x_load="NO" # es137x snd_ess_load="NO" # ess snd_fm801_load="NO" # fm801 snd_hda_load="NO" # Intel High Definition Audio (Controller) snd_ich_load="NO" # Intel ICH snd_maestro_load="NO" # Maestro snd_maestro3_load="NO" # Maestro3 snd_mss_load="NO" # Mss snd_neomagic_load="NO" # Neomagic snd_sb16_load="NO" # Sound Blaster 16 snd_sb8_load="NO" # Sound Blaster Pro snd_sbc_load="NO" # Sbc snd_solo_load="NO" # Solo snd_spicds_load="NO" # SPI codecs snd_t4dwave_load="NO" # t4dwave snd_via8233_load="NO" # via8233 snd_via82c686_load="NO" # via82c686 snd_vibes_load="NO" # vibes snd_driver_load="NO" # All sound drivers ############################################################## ### USB modules ############################################ ############################################################## usb_load="NO" # USB subsystem udbp_load="NO" # USB double bulk pipe host 2 host cables ugen_load="NO" # USB generic device, if all else fails ... ucycom_load="NO" # Cyprus USB serial adapters ufm_load="NO" # Fm Radio uhid_load="NO" # Human Interface Devices ukbd_load="NO" # Keyboard ulpt_load="NO" # Printer ums_load="NO" # Mouse umass_load="NO" # Mass Storage Devices umct_load="NO" # Magic Control Technology USB-RS232 umodem_load="NO" # Modems uplcom_load="NO" # Prolific USB serial adapters urio_load="NO" # Rio MP3 players uvisor_load="NO" # PalmOS based PDAs if_aue_load="NO" # ADMtek USB ethernet if_axe_load="NO" # ASIX Electronics AX88172 USB ethernet if_cdce_load="NO" # Ethernet over USB (CDC) if_cue_load="NO" # CATC USB ethernet if_kue_load="NO" # Kawasaki LSI USB ethernet if_rae_load="NO" # Realtek RTL8150 USB adapter. if_rum_load="NO" # Ralink USB 802.11 wireless adapter if_uath_load="NO" # Atheros AR5523 wireless adapter if_run_load="NO" # Ralink USB 802.11 wireless adapter if_ural_load="NO" # Ralink RT2500USB 802.11 wireless adapter if_zyd_load="NO" # ZyDAS ZD1211(B) USB 802.11 wireless adapter snd_uaudio_load="NO" # USB audio ############################################################## ### Other modules ########################################## ############################################################## aio_load="NO" # Asynchronous I/O bktr_load="NO" # Brooktree Bt848/Bt878 TV/Video Capture Card ispfw_load="NO" # Qlogic ISP Firmware agp_load="NO" # agp module accf_data_load="NO" # Wait for data accept filter accf_dns_load="NO" # Wait for full DNS request accept filter accf_http_load="NO" # Wait for full HTTP request accept filter ppi_load="NO" # Interface to ppbus parallel 'geek' port pps_load="NO" # Pulse per second devices puc_load="NO" # PCI "Universal" Communications driver random_load="NO" # Random device speaker_load="NO" # AT speaker module coretemp_load="NO" # Intel Core CPU temperature monitor vkbd_load="NO" # Virtual AT keyboard interface vpd_load="NO" # Vital Product Data kernel interface vpo_load="NO" # Parallel to SCSI interface driver amdtemp_load="NO" # AMD K8/K10/K11 temperature monitor tpm_load="NO" # Trusted Platform Module wbwd_load="NO" # Winbond watchdog ############################################################## ### ACPI settings ########################################## ############################################################## acpi_dsdt_load="NO" # DSDT Overriding acpi_dsdt_type="acpi_dsdt" # Don't change this acpi_dsdt_name="/boot/acpi_dsdt.aml" # Override DSDT in BIOS by this file acpi_video_load="NO" # Load the ACPI video extension driver ############################################################## ### TrustedBSD MAC settings ################################ ############################################################## mac_biba_load="NO" # Biba MAC policy mac_bsdextended_load="NO" # BSD/extended MAC policy mac_ifoff="NO" # Interface silencing policy mac_mls_load="NO" # MLS MAC policy mac_none_load="NO" # Null MAC policy mac_partition_load="NO" # Partition MAC policy mac_seeotheruids_load="NO" # UID visbility MAC policy ############################################################## ### Module loading syntax example ########################## ############################################################## #module_load="YES" # loads module "module" #module_name="realname" # uses "realname" instead of "module" #module_type="type" # passes "-t type" to load #module_flags="flags" # passes "flags" to the module #module_before="cmd" # executes "cmd" before loading the module #module_after="cmd" # executes "cmd" after loading the module #module_error="cmd" # executes "cmd" if load fails ------=_Part_38664_12050326.1512177182241-- From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 01:15:39 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 407C3DEC360 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 01:15:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingegneriaforense@alice.it) Received: from smtp301.alice.it (smtp301.alice.it [82.57.200.117]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B787ABD7 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 01:15:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ingegneriaforense@alice.it) Received: from feu33-alice (82.57.205.51) by smtp301.alice.it (8.6.060.43) id 5A1260FA009CAC16; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 02:09:41 +0100 Received: from (5.179.142.232) by webmail33e.pc.tim.it; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 02:09:41 +0100 Message-ID: <16014c59705.ingegneriaforense@alice.it> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 02:09:41 +0100 (CET) From: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it" Reply-To: "ingegneriaforense@alice.it" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: USB_ERR_IOERR: is usb controller electrically "broken" ? Cc: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com, hps@selasky.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: 5.179.142.232:51318 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Importance: high Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 01:15:39 -0000 Normal 0 14 false false false IT X-NONE X-NONE ORIGINAL QUESTION:During the freebsd installation I receive some messages: >> usbd_req_re_enumerate: addre=3, set address failed (USB_ERR_IOERROR, ignored) >> usbd_setup_device_desc: getting device descriptor at addr 3 failed, >> USB_ERR_IOERROR ugen0.3: at usbus0 (disconnected) >> uhub_reattach_port: could not allocate new device 1. Please, can you tell me what this means ? Maybe is the USB controller electrically "broken" or is due to a no correct software configuration of its parameters ? These messages are shown during the whole installation process overwriting my terminal and the sysinstall windows also.Is a way to avoid this behaviour, configuring the freebsd installation ?----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello guys, thanks for your reply. I'm so sorry but the problem is very tedious to solve. I set off the verbose option in the freebsd boot menu; then I've checked the loader.conf file in BOOT/DEFOULT directory. It seems that the verbose options are set off in this file. I've attached a copy of it, taken from my boot CD. Please, other tips are welcome. Thanks very much. vincenzo. /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Tabella normale"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} Forensic Consultant Tribunale di Lecce Studio: Strada di Garibaldi - Contrada Paradisi 73010 Lequile (LE) cell: 339.7968555 skype: vincenzo.di_salvo From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 19:32:35 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8550EE67BBB; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 19:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66B3C7AB17; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 19:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vB2JWYUA045340 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Dec 2017 11:32:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vB2JWYrn045339; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 11:32:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 11:32:34 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: [PATCH] Add guard macro to fpmath.h Message-ID: <20171202193234.GA45300@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 19:32:35 -0000 The following patch adds a guard macro to fpmath.h. It is used to prevent multiple inclusions of its content. Please apply to top-of-tree. Index: libc/include/fpmath.h =================================================================== --- libc/include/fpmath.h (revision 2044) +++ libc/include/fpmath.h (working copy) @@ -27,6 +27,9 @@ * $FreeBSD: head/lib/libc/include/fpmath.h 186461 2008-12-23 22:20:59Z marcel $ */ +#ifndef _FPMATH_H_ +#define _FPMATH_H_ + #include #include "_fpmath.h" @@ -73,3 +76,5 @@ union IEEEd2bits { #endif } bits; }; + +#endif /* !_FPMATH_H */ -- Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 19:42:58 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C673E68010 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 19:42:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: from mail-yb0-x244.google.com (mail-yb0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F240E7B2C1 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 19:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@eitanadler.com) Received: by mail-yb0-x244.google.com with SMTP id 5so5258362ybp.4 for ; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 11:42:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=eitanadler.com; s=0xdeadbeef; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=etparZ//+3UDMzUABYJbecTExPw29q4NnzZzl8RFF5k=; b=sKxpAkXJKCHdHsBR2saGpFC2dKDjijUrEoXyzVA7MEOfYn3V9tMVs1N5C+E0PM16ey FC32efpHVwtTr4EueiIwsOwSD78HAJfLN0ldOuTC6UtjiSSSkIL1n/0gDZepeISQbTTZ JnJttZoe7O8CzpyXAprKF25yE4An1CLerUMhE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=etparZ//+3UDMzUABYJbecTExPw29q4NnzZzl8RFF5k=; b=Lb73kBoxfCQWi+dBmZhZcygrQCH2JWKY5gKNq+lf0Qrcj78ksqWovbwqhwh+7fHXzY JJ7A/dr+4IZSga13Hiuz5hiJc7sm2lDd4dAjwCNiCx8ScQUdvJkpmD5wN3F4kFmi2K1w HG3V6dFXJZIGw1cziEBJ94qWbGVHauR2dIDbgSFkuHNTzGJalpYFAViQIQL6wS2SEdya G56BeyIcMBikfV2irWTJDSc2WvCTVjEccfDcbdwMdoAWfTEY2YJk8h4XiXnPwvwW9XwL y44NUh+uCGpv1ynkfAawRX5xwdl6RpneatfIHs4/BdCDaW4qjspGox7IfQYrg1jyxIdN vUfg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6ljClOGHN7859AzKwA3SkA218sfVI7524uX+kh//79jE8GuTBX gicjam1qwnXVXZ6FjtOR/91Oit52/HCkFvZXyHsPtw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbFpqZ1+pewA0YzYPvZvvh7aTKQh+MPOmhrzEJkBijwUthFPGXaVWzhoSqXqaPu5tMTjp6amwocjhyZVAAxfRw= X-Received: by 10.37.123.134 with SMTP id w128mr6410062ybc.486.1512243777084; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 11:42:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.15.66 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 11:42:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171202193234.GA45300@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <20171202193234.GA45300@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> From: Eitan Adler Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 11:42:26 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add guard macro to fpmath.h To: Steve Kargl Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-current Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 19:42:58 -0000 On 2 December 2017 at 11:32, Steve Kargl wrote: > The following patch adds a guard macro to fpmath.h. > It is used to prevent multiple inclusions of its > content. Please apply to top-of-tree. [69006 11:41:35.802 eax@FlyingEagle ~/svn/fbsd/head/lib]=E2=88=B4svn diff (svn:head)-[head:326419]-[326419] Index: libc/include/fpmath.h =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --- libc/include/fpmath.h (revision 326419) +++ libc/include/fpmath.h (working copy) @@ -29,6 +29,9 @@ * $FreeBSD$ */ +#ifndef _FPMATH_H_ +#define _FPMATH_H_ + #include #include "_fpmath.h" @@ -75,3 +78,5 @@ union IEEEd2bits { #endif } bits; }; + +#endif /* !_FPMATH_H */ [69007 11:41:37.789 eax@FlyingEagle ~/svn/fbsd/head/lib]=E2=88=B4svn ci libc/include/fpmath.h (svn:head)-[head:326419]-[326419] Sending libc/include/fpmath.h Transmitting file data .done Committing transaction... Committed revision 326479. --=20 Eitan Adler From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 20:03:10 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89699E68746; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 20:03:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E0177BCD7; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 20:03:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vB2K39qA045608 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Dec 2017 12:03:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vB2K39OL045607; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 12:03:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 12:03:09 -0800 From: Steve Kargl To: Eitan Adler Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , freebsd-current Current Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add guard macro to fpmath.h Message-ID: <20171202200309.GA45600@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Reply-To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu References: <20171202193234.GA45300@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.7.2 (2016-11-26) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 20:03:10 -0000 On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 11:42:26AM -0800, Eitan Adler wrote: > On 2 December 2017 at 11:32, Steve Kargl > wrote: > > The following patch adds a guard macro to fpmath.h. > > It is used to prevent multiple inclusions of its > > content. Please apply to top-of-tree. > > [69006 11:41:35.802 eax@FlyingEagle ~/svn/fbsd/head/lib]∴svn diff (trimmed) > [69007 11:41:37.789 eax@FlyingEagle ~/svn/fbsd/head/lib]∴svn ci > libc/include/fpmath.h > (svn:head)-[head:326419]-[326419] > Sending libc/include/fpmath.h > Transmitting file data .done > Committing transaction... > Committed revision 326479. That was quick! Thanks! Now onto powl(3). -- Steve