From owner-freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Mon Nov 6 10:18:21 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A44FE58A7B; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:18:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vvelox@vvelox.net) Received: from vulpes.vvelox.net (vulpes.vvelox.net [96.95.67.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0160685A1; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:18:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vvelox@vvelox.net) Received: from vvelox.net (vulpes.vvelox.net [192.168.14.42]) (Authenticated sender: kitsune) by vulpes.vvelox.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 49BD0224A9A2; Mon, 6 Nov 2017 04:09:29 -0600 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 04:09:28 -0600 From: "Zane C. B-H." To: Alan Somers Cc: "Mikhail T." , FreeBSD-scsi , freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, owner-freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do I need SAS drives?.. In-Reply-To: References: <4DFBCE11-913A-4FC9-937D-463B4D49816C@aldan.algebra.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: vvelox@vvelox.net User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3-beta X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 10:18:21 -0000 On 2017-08-09 10:59, Alan Somers wrote: > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Mikhail T. > wrote: > 1) When a SATA drive goes into error recovery, it can lock up the bus > indefinitely. This won't matter if your drives are directly connected > to a SAS HBA. But if you have an expander with say, 4 SAS lanes going > to the HBA, then a flaky SATA drive can reduce the bandwidth available > to the good drives. In my years of doing decade plus of DC work, I've seen both SAS and SATA drives flake and render systems in operable till the offending drive is removed. > 4) The SAS activity LED is the opposite of SATA's. With SATA, the LED > is off for an idle drive or blinking for a busy drive. With SAS, it's > on for an idle drive or blinking for a busy drive. This makes it > easier to see at a glance how many SAS drives you have installed. I > think some SATA drives have a way to change the LEDs behavior, though. HPs and Dells will show on by default, regardless of if it is SATA or SAS. For Supermicro it will vary between backplanes. > I'm guessing that you don't have an expander (since you only have 8 > slots), so item 1 doesn't matter to you. I'll guess that item 3 > doesn't matter either, or you wouldn't have asked this question. Item > 5 can be dealt with simply by buying the higher end SATA drives. So > item 6 is really the most important. If this system needs to have > very high uptime and consistent bandwidth, or if it will be difficult > to access for maintenance, then you probably want to use SAS drives. > If not, then you can save some money by using SATA. Hope that helps. Actually most boxes with more than 4 slots tend to be use multipliers. As to uptime, that is trivial to achieve with both. With both it is of importance of drive monitoring and regular self tests. From owner-freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Tue Nov 7 08:42:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hardware@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB59E52A30 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 08:42:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank2@fjl.co.uk) Received: from bs1.fjl.org.uk (bs1.fjl.org.uk [84.45.41.196]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "bs1.fjl.org.uk", Issuer "bs1.fjl.org.uk" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E12AB6FCDD for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 08:42:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank2@fjl.co.uk) Received: from [192.168.1.162] (host81-134-87-65.range81-130.btcentralplus.com [81.134.87.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by bs1.fjl.org.uk (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id vA78eEGn058827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-DSS-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2017 08:40:22 GMT (envelope-from frank2@fjl.co.uk) Message-ID: <5A00C4D5.2010205@fjl.co.uk> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 20:23:49 +0000 From: Frank Leonhardt Reply-To: frank2@fjl.co.uk Organization: Frank Leonhardt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Do I need SAS drives?.. References: <4DFBCE11-913A-4FC9-937D-463B4D49816C@aldan.algebra.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2017 08:42:51 -0000 On 06/11/2017 10:09, Zane C. B-H. wrote: > In my years of doing decade plus of DC work, I've seen both SAS and SATA > drives flake and render systems in operable till the offending drive is > removed. > My experience too. > For Supermicro it will vary between backplanes. > Very true indeed. If they go on or off from time to time, that's good enough. >> I'm guessing that you don't have an expander (since you only have 8 >> slots), so item 1 doesn't matter to you. I'll guess that item 3 >> doesn't matter either, or you wouldn't have asked this question. Item >> 5 can be dealt with simply by buying the higher end SATA drives. So >> item 6 is really the most important. If this system needs to have >> very high uptime and consistent bandwidth, or if it will be difficult >> to access for maintenance, then you probably want to use SAS drives. >> If not, then you can save some money by using SATA. Hope that helps. > > Actually most boxes with more than 4 slots tend to be use multipliers. > I'm more mixed on that. There are quite a few Dells with eight or twelve-slot backplanes, even if it means two HBAs. Apart from better performance, the cost of 2xHBA+backplane is bizarrely less than 1xHBA+Expander. All the Supermicros I've seen have had expanders though. > As to uptime, that is trivial to achieve with both. > > With both it is of importance of drive monitoring and regular self tests. WHS! Biggest cause of problems is discovering a flaky drive or two AFTER the redundant one has failed. I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I'm inclined to do a straightforward read of a block device rather than a ZFS scrub because (a) I think it's quicker, especially when there's not much workload; and (b) it also reads unused blocks, which are probably the majority. "Best Practice" says you should do a scrub every three months - seems way to long a gap for my liking. 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion of FreeBSD hardware List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 12:23:19 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpJ4oCZbSBhdHRlbXB0aW5nIHRvIGluc3RhbGwgRnJlZUJTRCAxMS4xIChlaXRo ZXIg4oCTUkVMRUFTRSBvciDigJNTVEFCTEUpIG9uIGFuIEhQIFByb0xpYW50IERMMzYwIEdlbjEw IGhvd2V2ZXIgaXQgaXMgbm90IGRldGVjdGluZyB0aGUgUkFJRCBjb250cm9sbGVyIHdoaWNoIGlz IGEgSFBFIFNtYXJ0IEFycmF5IFA0MDhpLWHigKYNCg0KSSBjYW4gc2VlIHRoYXQgaXQgaXNu4oCZ dCBpbmNsdWRlZCBvbiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5mcmVlYnNkLm9yZy9jZ2kvbWFuLmNnaT9xdWVyeT1j aXNzJnNla3Rpb249NCBob3dldmVyIEkgd2FzIGhvcGVmdWwgdGhhdCBtYXliZSBzb21lb25lIG9u IHRoaXMgbGlzdCBtaWdodCBoYXZlIHNvbWUgbW9yZSBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdpdGggdGhpcyBuZXdl ciBnZW5lcmF0aW9uIEhQIGtpdCBhbmQgYmUgYWJsZSB0byBoZWxwIG9yIGlmIGFueW9uZSBpcyBh d2FyZSBvZiB0aGlzIGJlaW5nIHdvcmtlZCBvbj8NCg0KVGhhbmtzIGluIGFkdmFuY2UsDQoNClNj b3R0DQo=