From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Mon Sep 4 00:54:43 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF2F1E04D84 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:54:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ghuntley@ghuntley.com) Received: from mail-qk0-x241.google.com (mail-qk0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F96D82C57 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 00:54:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ghuntley@ghuntley.com) Received: by mail-qk0-x241.google.com with SMTP id n64so147958qki.4 for ; Sun, 03 Sep 2017 17:54:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ghuntley.com; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=xNoWApKspQqXW9TcrSJUPD54DpvXHqq6Y97OdzitHaY=; b=j9rDdzjU9wI+RHSQVLeOPe9h3quvSpNNPISjMuBjVbAdgttFP6sv9Gi8gOSqQj4la1 iNER0iEOhau22JtzN4mDLUSxrLm4eWR4js72GAcWwOMn+l8fGAXsjmcMbUx5f20rglD0 yfEfdo68OhUPHE+vWedWNget3OBQd9RIR+t6g= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=xNoWApKspQqXW9TcrSJUPD54DpvXHqq6Y97OdzitHaY=; b=NfyLMnEvwNqkRh9YM4cmfLctV5THXAyghvGnoIRz8PvtS7vFpR1QtDdPNULTuTk3De p8gU4aO2+s18NvH4fP0yNUJIhBanhUIPYYdwDHllVg4HBWhkmFwpkgE9t7y8kIsuoYGX Y65UqFFnBJF/kArpEwta5TtD8IYQdaZdbg0NvSYHk2j9j+6f3rUPzqaNpEdTRe26cdpi rDzFDVuL+x3AHbyFzUjqILghmzmvqtGTOVQ4X10reVc1mSIQGxT+b7WxI1SS0prdN9SX U1HF1WXF13j0UiS+BFqrr+7aJJGl7005+soz7qwFlsIEEtwHsD0reqJ1m9222MmosPQ/ fF8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhwYvimNwj6IiRa5pvgB35RMbr3PJdRygaK/pohnRLBvNsWXKwe k+phZt08ULt6PioQbMBimyXp+i2b/odM X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5A30F00/ioFU9yjTfIKlaln59m6G3d6RxKRTPLRi4gQNTNEh5F0qJHUcMKB1da3d6S3b9IHl4WEFPEbsFgNMg= X-Received: by 10.55.91.66 with SMTP id p63mr2423842qkb.307.1504486482440; Sun, 03 Sep 2017 17:54:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.87.38 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 17:54:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [114.76.163.6] From: Geoffrey Huntley Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 10:54:21 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-mono@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 00:54:43 -0000 See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllisWOCpU and https://twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/904227946084294656 From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Mon Sep 4 02:15:16 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD2AE09644; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 02:15:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from shell1.rawbw.com (shell1.rawbw.com [198.144.192.42]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B998874; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 02:15:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) Received: from yv.noip.me (c-24-6-186-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.186.56]) (authenticated bits=0) by shell1.rawbw.com (8.15.1/8.15.1) with ESMTPSA id v842FESu090521 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 3 Sep 2017 19:15:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yuri@rawbw.com) X-Authentication-Warning: shell1.rawbw.com: Host c-24-6-186-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.6.186.56] claimed to be yv.noip.me Subject: Re: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD To: Geoffrey Huntley , freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-mono@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org References: From: Yuri Message-ID: <8bf8731c-65e8-fc43-4bfc-658b269067c3@rawbw.com> Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 19:15:13 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 02:15:16 -0000 On 09/03/17 17:54, Geoffrey Huntley wrote: > Seehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllisWOCpU and > https://twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/904227946084294656 Is there a body of software that requires .Net? I never came across anything great that needed .Net to run. In other words, why is this needed and who is going to use it? Yuri From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 14:51:30 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE6CAE0D383 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 14:51:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from catalin.brown@salesgnu.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A7B7C600 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 14:51:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from catalin.brown@salesgnu.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 9DEBEE0D382; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 14:51:30 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D747E0D381 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 14:51:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from catalin.brown@salesgnu.com) Received: from mta-4.dcjots.com (mta-3.dcjots.com [37.187.180.238]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48A7C7C5FC for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 14:51:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from catalin.brown@salesgnu.com) Received: from Sys512 (unknown [142.234.27.98]) by mta-3.dcjots.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9E39722B0C for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 16:51:31 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mta-3.dcjots.com 9E39722B0C Reply-To: From: "Catalin Brown" To: Subject: Real Estate Industry Email List Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 20:20:24 +0530 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AdMmVkz4svT3gBoWQt2ybi2aAQTlgw== X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 170905-2, 09/05/2017), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 14:51:30 -0000 Good Day, I found that your company is going to exhibit in tradeshow "HR Tech 2017". 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Marketing Manager --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 18:52:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690A4E18EB9; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 18:52:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B81A86ACD4; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 18:52:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id u26so22926542wma.0; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=yeNs+83VzIrMNrJUiNS/Rv3r0WuWKairfhmJNCxBvdM=; b=W5wW27oCo6IXbldSBC0E4auK6k7LJg09dTf4EbviWAidsZz31jSkWvXH/ScKK5NCM1 E6FZIzXFY8u4MiEb5zTJ1MRR9GjXsca4A0vvGBkO54rT5TldBJsBOrROZsPdnqkYi4tu ilHvJ2WsQEJMNvAG4LRx5ipknV/uj24C+AuwLi56ISGxu7Jyc149yt5Vt7P4cnuY1qTX RvCe7Sfgwhab+1XfhfhmoYhrp+b5a+U2GIALBZrowBszf6U3w83XLczdldPASPVkr+rt /RFYRpmllEYdc4UK1v4MbqzEP7aXSFy4bbwn6ErYdv2zDYu+mzIsEDr+PCVypHE2nmd0 LqCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization :user-agent:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=yeNs+83VzIrMNrJUiNS/Rv3r0WuWKairfhmJNCxBvdM=; b=BqPJYNm8DAzkLbJURKBkENAewYxATFWlfe5OPzSBKqZp970UbYZxfQOVDh1UOrNTWj JUSPh7QcX44f6yjCzUywAqhwV4+ayxNYKsJUirBjUcoUBhQA148WYdFMqtCBvE20Omu/ hge/hMsDR5CRkgS+VKTL6VoSqdWloZO+7DULovUFkWLKD7pfa5kDsfW89eFYN6o64LLu tIeutWzptxu0nmG9yxI/V4h/PYrx2ClOVYGJaodcpgcp37XnDeQnCsMlh2rWJbG69m92 QKI+aC3j58FUjg1jqdpiEZzmC/QmPVYxwOL19hN52HWx7aOSQT2v+AhTIV20aSBUqrwE PMRw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUh981lYhjNBRWaqYM2ZKPJhN0B1kzdXS0xPcjDp1qbD/+1CWPGw hVJZhM2zyxoIerZ2vZo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7fYzPv+aehIk8vUoztsiKI3pilbSJfa7fGBgP5lohFRWV4dXrb3SLGrtwRb9dx6axySK1u7A== X-Received: by 10.80.215.78 with SMTP id i14mr4087955edj.274.1504637535608; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 11:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.local ([41.144.114.114]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id d21sm719129edb.4.2017.09.05.11.52.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Sep 2017 11:52:14 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: Geoffrey Huntley Cc: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 20:52:10 +0200 Message-ID: <1697920.aIIVMSx0iY@dragon.local> Organization: Private User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/11.1-RELEASE-p1; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4300563.e2VY8fxPu0"; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 18:52:19 -0000 --nextPart4300563.e2VY8fxPu0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Monday, 4 September 2017 10:54:21 Geoffrey Huntley wrote: > See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllisWOCpU and > https://twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/904227946084294656 Hi Geoffrey It is great to hear there is more interest in finishing the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD (and, I hope, to have ports living in the Port's Collection). Would it be possible for you to put me (and the mono@ mailing list) in touch with Karel and Tomas - I'm not on Twitter. I'll reply to this email (dropping ports@ and advocacy@) with more technical details. Regards David --nextPart4300563.e2VY8fxPu0 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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Tue, 05 Sep 2017 11:58:42 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: Geoffrey Huntley Cc: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 20:58:39 +0200 Message-ID: <5615919.TlCM7jm4W2@dragon.local> Organization: Private User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/11.1-RELEASE-p1; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <1697920.aIIVMSx0iY@dragon.local> References: <1697920.aIIVMSx0iY@dragon.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart22799143.zeWXg1iOmM"; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 18:58:45 -0000 --nextPart22799143.zeWXg1iOmM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Tuesday, 5 September 2017 20:52:10 David Naylor wrote: > On Monday, 4 September 2017 10:54:21 Geoffrey Huntley wrote: > > See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllisWOCpU and > > https://twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/904227946084294656 > > Hi Geoffrey > > It is great to hear there is more interest in finishing the port of .NET > Core to FreeBSD (and, I hope, to have ports living in the Port's > Collection). > > Would it be possible for you to put me (and the mono@ mailing list) in touch > with Karel and Tomas - I'm not on Twitter. > > I'll reply to this email (dropping ports@ and advocacy@) with more technical > details. There has been multiple attempts to finish the porting, my effort can be found here [1]. Alas, I haven't looked at it in a while so I'm not sure how things look on the .NET Core 2.0 front. As it stands I have: # git clone https://github.com/DragonSA/dotnet # make -C dotnet/dotnet-sdk install # gdb /usr/local/dotnet/bootstrap/dotnet (gdb) run --version (gdb) bt #0 0x000000080299065b in pthread_mutex_destroy () from /lib/libthr.so.3 #1 0x000000080298f919 in pthread_mutex_lock () from /lib/libthr.so.3 #2 0x000000081d093c4d in GetCollatorFromSortHandle () from /usr/local/dotnet/bootstrap/shared/Microsoft.NETCore.App/1.0.3/System.Globalization.Native.so #3 0x000000081d093dcf in GlobalizationNative_CompareString () from /usr/local/dotnet/bootstrap/shared/Microsoft.NETCore.App/1.0.3/System.Globalization.Native.so #8 0x000000080291cae8 in vtable for InlinedCallFrame () from /usr/local/dotnet/bootstrap/shared/Microsoft.NETCore.App/1.0.3/libcoreclr.so The main challenges have been: 1) how to bootstrap the build: i) mscorlib.dll (and friends) need to be compiled on Windows ii) all other dlls also need to be compiled on Windows (without crossgen) 2) nuget downloads conflict with the approach required by the Ports Collection Some initial ideas I have to overcome the issues are: a) improve the Ports Collection to handle nuget packages (WIP) (2) b) have dotnet-sdk distributed without crossgen applied (1ii) c) adopt mono's approach of creating a single dll for all platforms (1i) d) allow bootstrapping of .NET Core with mono (1) e) fix the core dump mentioned above :-P f) abstract the bootstrapping process (i.e. init-tools.sh) [1] https://github.com/DragonSA/dotnet Regards David --nextPart22799143.zeWXg1iOmM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAABCgB9FiEElI7FEaJ/AwLnmbU6rWP6jday2lUFAlmu899fFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDk0 OEVDNTExQTI3RjAzMDJFNzk5QjUzQUFENjNGQThERDZCMkRBNTUACgkQrWP6jday 2lXMhBAAvc6nSj5WYL8rBrYhjRzlbySCxHdyhz4Ndf1QNwadXdzAtLAJiTACLzJ8 7+zY7H2lpc4GHSy5FzWT7V48gzSj9zWNHlxKq6A9kFvEmqDuCu+zmuG7tJsnDfez scWR2qWFsVFD5vUAmBSOUbKTip3iaE8Ne8sDuVFU/xodgctsDW2m+1cv3f8/dnL/ WjESVeO1O2nFWqXz8yav63gd1g52cyFgJEFK9wWARq0MLTqX6WgGSmJe1ohdmjms N8NfeuIuBxeHMQVBjTSl6xv+PLO7OO1XlI8n2tMeL3jos0NFRPoskCBo4Y5tBMNF UeX84xob305KFZsfgZQE8nVmvPqqyZ6wp1tFggBCRb5+R8oHa7Tp5MsBBFFD1A+V /nI1LApmt/8h+ts5v+DTXgcNLytLuThZA9+kK2zoA/cse0AXmkxbUKeZQzOspiLF uP6Yq0u5Zlne4lkBEaecI6Z9lIo6OXexwXBDauAx+y6mE0190iVg+Vp7dBCVmKZY 51KkxefbQxnYI8aBFSZ28K1CmxOrCbmEP0yuXg196Dy21z36Z3CiDPFG/DslFkwC X7Ki82TCXidibKP1hCKJlKQNxZz6r4zV5meDoNONwktgtMncMJVFfnbBHFwpS1Ch O7OdZFhYNhkZBr7q8msC+IWvs/z1c1NSjmtYVpcowa0eH9BdhfA= =ksDU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart22799143.zeWXg1iOmM-- From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 19:06:16 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E428E1978D for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:06:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com (mail-wm0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 495016DF8C; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:06:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f199so2697054wme.0; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:06:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=K0aLAq/xgu1IMCvTxTDZNTQgsWBxDhMRJA0GWYnw7xA=; b=vB91rEeNnMZ9OQoA3rKoe0FoFZW7WtprGKcaigAekm8JIAabrfcPBS6NrDdBSoFFpU pwW3J60DWJHAnL5Y/gUENNLoc7FVRxwTxd8Bl7rpiNTgDfb6V76gpTtdjv2TzW8OdBs0 ILYM2k6iLtXqQ2eKYL5bpVmgE1u5pbIhzaUoNEYcawzmqFMaYIvpH4Qb09k0fXjJMWjU dXESE1eQqN9g9uNNHG9aqoX3bWDzITIR6DWPT+PHG1YqYEGhDMz+FU5JdMeSpU0zfKRU FukxALLZMtu22uytPZmJQC4J54xEwG5FGEW42V2UEBngSvfBlnhnRu02wz31WuVoqh1z N1Dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization :user-agent:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=K0aLAq/xgu1IMCvTxTDZNTQgsWBxDhMRJA0GWYnw7xA=; b=ORRfMMHE+chD++3IWTWeWeNf6L9rmMrYU/V5F54z2kFtQTi4O9xhlhTa0ZIuH4vMvf Ue23aULDVbXk6KsV6n+aMXeEF+Hb1kijLJmAgC5hiQGOYIK2UFBE0GeJXb2T58Z+nSGJ SCGzAz2FYYsfpAXmwO5f/2Pr7qQ52r7B4nl2H2DEgeGDlsn5ukv1BAQUmuB8kGXtLHG3 dmhE4nFTL5Y1fD5uSojqF3WqMowiQv7P8bo61TKWn65fPj7T7Qd/5os3EoBrjVNe1nIg pLQihuy6w+zoN+5yDJOz+iNMeimt0GxXHGopPZJQFGqbUK+qoji6neuscxN4gmlUL1KW TQLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUh7PxRCTLe81oLgqZule76fvGAUO02LlF73zI0CVh9mnYxsJUGw QnrEfz76orCU6zIjzmg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7onBPDz4ym66KykEDopSnpSxf/nFvsEEntqx53jfGRQUeOhONsCwfgqpCYoKyD/fkXXYhL4w== X-Received: by 10.28.213.21 with SMTP id m21mr27022wmg.145.1504638373016; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.local ([41.144.114.114]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k52sm1915156wrf.62.2017.09.05.12.06.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:06:12 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Cc: Romain =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarti=E8re?= Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 21:06:08 +0200 Message-ID: <1884750.4JRtOyePTJ@dragon.local> Organization: Private User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/11.1-RELEASE-p1; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <20170902090359.GA47675@blogreen.org> References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> <3186981.TyGdqNibkJ@dragon.local> <20170902090359.GA47675@blogreen.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2105988.d62tYlezr9"; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:06:16 -0000 --nextPart2105988.d62tYlezr9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Saturday, 2 September 2017 11:03:59 Romain Tarti=C3=A8re wrote: > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 09:41:43PM +0200, David Naylor wrote: > > [2] A general discussion needs to be had around nuget packages. Ho= w do we > > consume them? > >=20 > > i) as downloads with each port containing a copy > > =20 > > ii) local ports with consistency across the Ports Collections > >=20 > > iii) A mixture of the above (i.e. (ii) is there is a native compone= nt, > > otherwise (i)) > > I prefer (ii) as I think it gives the end user the best leverage to= patch > > issues with nuget packages locally (and to get updates without wait= ing on > > a) upstream, and b) us/ports maintainer). However, at this point t= hat > > option is at 0% progress. >=20 > Yeah, it's a problem that is broader and broader=E2=80=A6 and for wh= ich I don't > think a universal solution works :-/ At a minimum, any nuget package that contains a native (i.e. compiled) = portion=20 needs to be a Port. =20 > With local copies (i) you end-up with a lot of duplication (Go > applications are a good example of how this can become quite stupid, = I > recently created a port for a go application, the source tarball > includes the source of all dependencies, and everything is bundled in= a > 13MB executable (that only depends on libc.so and libthr.so). >=20 > With a port per dependency (ii), you sooner or later have to handle > conflicts between dependencies (port A needs foo-1.0.0 but port B nee= ds > foo-2.0.0) and it can get tricky. I think we can already handle that (see all the Qt ports). I'm not sur= e what=20 currently happens when A depends on B and C but B and C depend on diffe= rent=20 versions of D. Does .NET just use the latest version of D? > I only have experience with programming with Ruby as a language that = has > similar problem. I ended at only installing system tools using the > FreeBSD ports (e.g. puppet, vagrant, passenger), and for applications= I > actually use, I just grab the source, and use bundler to gather all > dependencies as the user running the software, therefore I end up hav= ing > something similar to (i) without using the port system. >=20 > My weak Windows development experience learned me to put all dll of a= n > application in the application directory. If it's still a good advic= e, > I guess that each application should have it's copy of all it's > dependencies, and therefore each port should install a bundle of all > what is required by it. In my ideal situation all dlls will be installed in the GAC (or just li= nked to=20 where they are installed). If I read this [1] correctly, Debian advoca= tes for=20 all dlls to be registered in the GAC. =20 =20 > Another problem with nugets packages is that you only get binaries, > right? That means that is something goes really wrong, there is no w= ay > to audit the source code of what led to disaster. The problem is > similar with the few Java projects I gave a look at. My feeling is t= hat > this is even worst :-( Ruby being interpreted, there is no such > problems. >=20 > I am not enough involved in Java nor .Net to think about mitigations = of > this issue. This is my primary concern, how does one take control when each port ma= nages=20 its own private dependencies. =20 [1] https://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ --nextPart2105988.d62tYlezr9 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAABCgB9FiEElI7FEaJ/AwLnmbU6rWP6jday2lUFAlmu9aBfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDk0 OEVDNTExQTI3RjAzMDJFNzk5QjUzQUFENjNGQThERDZCMkRBNTUACgkQrWP6jday 2lWmEA/+M8r2PpJiDPox6EZQ/ke6LLM6TMrD/G3jZTbSSPRKfLChxhJj2F73/dnY CZQOSAfLuSEkHnjdeIfQWH5F1ktw46KUNSOOrnXi5Snn2088UTS/78zFei2vXkV0 xrhC1GuLYM+DLClbIw9NdfxoSM5lx8ngZ3fAOYW/5kT2BC/9a6JGIkFZSHKxyoCf T+n2AzlwWUZr0VbJSyI/QviApltF77CXcIo6p8XiK1QyMSBGKYikyBiOkVsIXw/u 1jD7RHNnR4IaVRgRDP7UKV5XRDbbehSKbw3MUITmlT68O57jKE3CZefdt/uGhGjo WrxwauXPZ7cFwGYJAryZGUfWJmx7+D6wMlww//R4GchADuoDI2n7c87KBOco0axC A7x68trXazXUHK7Ehdjcb3VmhQhFQ1nOue2Bht2hCN7De6Mp3PLdGB3mXSgLxO0D jILyXFTLSeJ20eTTb1eUiYEf3F3XATANWhRGKLsxGygd4LLpo2t7ejLiJ9XiroEk OxiBic7FUh6Z3+J0B9hApwm+bXA3/BcMElZyqMDAhAYhPlnBgd1yiFKqyklhAtpR hQqX7F1DuGHi6QZJZStSK0u2yebV3LuzaKAnIxkLvlwW7Nnh/Dzj5/BYfpN8IQ5C oS448SW8ssQe/5IgOMz6RLxvNZwilomMHLzeisJss7LQAKXuU3Q= =2KBW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2105988.d62tYlezr9-- From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 19:10:12 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2B7E19992 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:10:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x235.google.com (mail-wr0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 155FB6ECF6; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:10:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x235.google.com with SMTP id y15so10463879wrc.2; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:10:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=Up2aRf0vPgydeM81TL7B0eEJu0DqUwpJp1uFBasXp98=; b=B8I2ZrEq4WmJEF/kSAuxa/FsVitXZzE2a/9qVAFWGtKrbFj2kbpw7VTkgJmLvsuAMW 4eDBiYQyF2fhzp1TN2BA6AWu0ffJPx2iVRB1Bo7zLDWQHOkDlvZr5u62yNRCDQXjkQ3x CLiT3HRkYulMwpetQvTbD9Kth15XWKaeIZMyLSzLdEUJn/TRMsEJ7wZCvnd1Zjm9sw3v tLHYwq2psSnu938+98/+HwfwdILx7UiEwr8JucVUfJrnNkH1z9tOH9k6hEXNz3YAmreO fcQdAQG9q9XQR/ITY9ByvcthRA6NcpMaTmdum55MDSnVX29Thox1nZgNCeppiBXfKgFK D6ww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization :user-agent:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=Up2aRf0vPgydeM81TL7B0eEJu0DqUwpJp1uFBasXp98=; b=Qhiww49I5m3gvjzX5V3/h6EqdIGMGxWWCCBU9DN1Du/OAFU3zWjoVeEkIKrveCyG1z QLJP+helr3cLKWwF+Mw1O1WUOLlGf7IBR474FTx1W2R/g1JAQervyxnkSOfSl/yTsEFC 3JHVQbMLHltoSEABDUw7sEbKBTj13bObbKOfRcCIeCg/cEDhHjWpWUNorw5Tps27rfA6 7L160nHyOtHdmCxmRzI/HWG94LrmsQAWksQzvVkshC5RzWOzsRu4+qtBz4tvynly+hT0 p+DBILnIMxfKeDOKDYgHhoPZvRRKWAE35BZ7lmHv0fOt2pXm8jkwy9FhG/C8dHrcBkMl YlDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUh//3s8572id0/L7lhNQ6aAHUNdza2x/XnIcuVm16+yBGquuBuZ 0A3PuWReYVPilkwPY9w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb6UbnEZrPmA0Sm9Po70PISQ6LjMiYk9lad08gEwRJ1FMyfNzCTAbknT2UUqqB56E/MMmJAmFg== X-Received: by 10.223.182.137 with SMTP id j9mr50856wre.150.1504638609212; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.local ([41.144.114.114]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 187sm1414361wmm.42.2017.09.05.12.10.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Cc: Robert Alegrid , Romain =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarti=E8re?= Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 21:10:04 +0200 Message-ID: <1536944.ljPHsciMcB@dragon.local> Organization: Private User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/11.1-RELEASE-p1; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> <20170902090359.GA47675@blogreen.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2082703.sG4WLaUvCc"; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:10:12 -0000 --nextPart2082703.sG4WLaUvCc Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Saturday, 2 September 2017 11:55:15 Robert Alegrid wrote: > I apologize in advance if I formatted this message incorrectly or add= ressed > it incorrectly. This is the first time I'm posting to a mailing list,= so I > have no real idea how I should be doing it. Looks good to me :-), welcome to the list. =20 > I also just program as a hobby (and mostly on Windows at that), so th= at > should be taken in consideration as well. >=20 > On Saturday, 2 September 2017 7:03 PM, Romain Tarti=E8re wrote: > >On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 09:41:43PM +0200, David Naylor wrote: > >> [2] A general discussion needs to be had around nuget packages. H= ow do > >> we > >> consume them? > >> > >> i) as downloads with each port containing a copy > >> ii) local ports with consistency across the Ports Collections > >> > >> iii) A mixture of the above (i.e. (ii) is there is a native compon= ent, > >> otherwise (i)) > >> I prefer (ii) as I think it gives the end user the best leverage t= o patch > >> issues with nuget packages locally (and to get updates without wai= ting on > >> a) upstream, and b) us/ports maintainer). However, at this point = that > >> option is at 0% progress. >=20 > It's possible for NuGet to use a local directory as a feed: > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/nuget/hosting-packages/local-feeds= > If you add the local feed earlier in the list of sources, it should p= ick up > your locally built packages instead of fetching it from the internet.= Good to know, but this will still require patching each port to use a l= ocal=20 feed. > NuGet also maintains a cache of packages that it uses to restore from= when > it doesn't have an internet connection to work with. I believe this location is $PACKAGES=3D$HOME/.nuget/packages and is the= best=20 approach to provide packages during build phase. =20 Regards --nextPart2082703.sG4WLaUvCc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAABCgB9FiEElI7FEaJ/AwLnmbU6rWP6jday2lUFAlmu9oxfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDk0 OEVDNTExQTI3RjAzMDJFNzk5QjUzQUFENjNGQThERDZCMkRBNTUACgkQrWP6jday 2lVOXRAAw1OEt1NKYulxwSVqsUu7Xsb4x05Mll1XJZoQrlL79b0sqJTX9VH+/lwp dHffaKSuKeUezQICk05ssgVrVEkeuIJwTVTBCzh6H1vyEwhIcyBTAn1MFBZIEHsv jdG3YpyIlPW92UfUpKzEeHVWbjo3bEv3dJm1A27edPuOBGMbPEACweCul/Q906+u X2RxkgkAPUO8ssMVEqziwkrF6B7pp3/4SVa7F5ytRcj5sWzypqrV9IwHLqKTYmKJ dLURh6DfCik4KWU8dwDe8HDva6m0ZaN8u6DylZcmkZGZNPPdQfrZ0tuu6fPDEXqO Hqe0NPspGa/la806fUFL3Ie6KGakiLTNBc8C5p2ZGUbvXotYXA0FQCNVMp5BhclN XDrAyVP6LywBMTthaoXVwQYN+AWXavVc0ceics6RQBDOC/HhMOTJ9MbDtlHK12yV Wok3VJasEMBUOg+YU6aDkUI+aM+2UrGtIX5vhywqh/Rbzvj1m2PLS1keVmba64Yf tb3lYVGCOJDofWrDB75MGZHi9o+tPe/Qk9W2hczKdP9X6RkTQgE5pw9pqDP/xdNl UMhxtUjuPCcERL7mZ6kpRxoHadkXmgBhVvDJahICpDYqH2hCTrq3joTHt5StXVfB X7Yo1f99sO4nTCLpxAaPAko862pDuxsSbkCoCWnhhifwDStsFgU= =SF72 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2082703.sG4WLaUvCc-- From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 19:14:54 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0D6E19EB4 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:14:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x243.google.com (mail-lf0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E6CF7004D for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:14:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x243.google.com with SMTP id h80so2152593lfe.1 for ; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:14:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=JmtJSZp+2j88IB6lHN62OHPznRqsKTINc3ffGzMBFvI=; b=h25K++MfbwVYRRDN8lZ0S3Pl/s/kh+YY043ltX2V7HHmJDdtXzNhrpW4m3bdFW5Rqi Fd+OyVPkIMySUnwFKzpNcNlCSPPhNqXTwh7MweZpoPQASbFm9km5/x38i4FF55O5EPc5 NEX7SkcCl0ehz6PhyCWhi17ub0/NJacVIPbrfkAYLb/YD7We+GYXYNHQHOrIsb1LdpDi hJchgqV+nG3jRuOekjm+Vif3YOpgzzuKZNnZqQb6AcrGajcjnOXVPuIfss+5C6zcGdm5 BqFNdJE9/l1JACQwNTPHUbfmiP+nww4nSkMZbpIhCY0bASIFp4IJ4/CxuQ5pEW/gk+PG 95Hw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=JmtJSZp+2j88IB6lHN62OHPznRqsKTINc3ffGzMBFvI=; b=teR10EQQ0iUlWqppB6e/zAn60Xuct057oPxuK0qfhzBQB64LlEJsheviNxuY/RqYsM FVp7KJY1xrHQZNR/5MLQj7xbpuRAKg7VRcjeiEtG5Ywh5vFJYeV/os4h0BEHABHMoit4 qkm8flQfIycqqedSE4STyOcwIQVrU9CG2NgZdmHmKmLI9fyCh2lQuwWjigD+APGUetiy WnywY4QqHp7fdfvT/tPmBpWsgEx3srfGlf1dP1wJoUlMLiO8wZwNOXlyre1JkJfVUzRY X8FnPYmeYs0JAKds+0Fs7VXzbWPS38tuCXg/e48jRkgSxTi/apy6o/FWAZMU/IjROgsr lt1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUio/DbUN7ktR6E24Oj41fAsjsPrhZo46uRCrvkJgpI4cvl5JvzN 767boH9rKKMA6pEhf5BPFiAcu+Mdmg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb4IzpOP6/+s2feGQ6tiOM7dscxrDxfRblHXuCGwjx+ApbSBDkPG2hkbmNh7lDVIVOle8nCPq1UhklSW4EW3OqE= X-Received: by 10.25.41.67 with SMTP id p64mr32499lfp.200.1504638891143; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:14:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.81.18 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 12:14:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <8bf8731c-65e8-fc43-4bfc-658b269067c3@rawbw.com> From: Russell Haley Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 12:14:50 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD To: Freebsd-mono Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:14:54 -0000 Yuri, I apologize, I thought this went to everyone. I didn't mean to single you out. :) My comments below... Russ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Russell Haley Date: Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD To: Yuri On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:15 PM, Yuri wrote: > On 09/03/17 17:54, Geoffrey Huntley wrote: >> >> Seehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllisWOCpU and >> https://twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/904227946084294656 > > > > Is there a body of software that requires .Net? I never came across anything > great that needed .Net to run. > > In other words, why is this needed and who is going to use it? There are literally millions of DotNet applications that are running in companies of varying sizes around the world that could be easily converted to run on FreeBSD without a user being any the wiser, especially Asp.net applications (a huge chunk of that). There are many companies looking to get DotNet applications off of expensive operating systems and onto cheap FOSS operating systems that require no licensing and very little upgrading. From my experience people looking to convert over from MS.Net to Mono have always had *some reason* to not make the switch (real or imagined). DotNet Core offers the first truly cross platform opportunity for most Microsoft shops. Further, FreeBSD offers a unique opportunity for companies to take application code and close it off as an appliance (virtual or physical) and protect intellectual property in a way that GPL licensed OSes can't. This can be easily seen in Sony Playstation 3 & 4 and the NetApp appliance as models for very profitable closed source applications of FreeBSD. I've very effectively run Samba4 on FreeBSD as a complete AD replacement in a small scale test. One could conceivably remove a lot of licensing for Servers and Client Access Licenses by moving over to a FreeBSD based system. As someone with experience in both large scale IT and embedded systems, the RAD application development that DotNet offers is fantastic. It's like building working space shuttles out of Lego. Microsoft lost badly in the OS wars on the phones and is loosing on the cheap tablets as well. The are not gaining much in Web Servers and starting to see losses in IT systems to Linux. The local school system where I am from has moved completely to Ubuntu (and it shows in the three week downtime in their email systems). The MS solution to GNU/Linux and all FOSS is to do what they do best: absorb the technology. They have created the Microsoft Subsystem For Linux, which allows them to natively run Linux system calls in the NT Kernel. They have moved their business model to the cloud and are looking to embrace FOSS just like Amazon and Google do. In order to keep their technologies relevant, they now need to allow DotNet to run on GNU/Linux and other FOSS systems. As someone that embraces all technology, I see this as an excellent thing. Russ From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 19:24:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFFFCE1AC2D; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:24:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x243.google.com (mail-lf0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC9AB7244B; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:24:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x243.google.com with SMTP id m199so2144643lfe.5; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:24:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=TFzBaOC/2TaHpAAXsMNx1ZOxzsF8qABep5gh0E3jIaQ=; b=Y725zyy3+0PpspR6hId27dA7PL7K45l79XrW7+DNLVXm2Qgwahb0o4RynRwB2fp9B4 VoSMt7l9/KZ3cxc6Qod+G0Rgq271qEWGHM++LRr4icLQ0j/PBcijpTQjCjiFvQDM7hGS qccDnF7fZneA81DWEu5hZS+LhCA1NczbHHAIt8lY/kiflvvAc0VDAXh5oKX3kZ79N7ue 9MyBOaR/pDsQpvthq2JbdbsEcVf9Rg8tWUtRO7yz+EWcwZ5BvoK7AVW6SFelhQQw8rIZ Kyp74ilq/FL+3QxPBcNTzfHuTxiM2SUFZtsQFUwB/JDyxpnpiOFjb1VgqW56rT+ISM0G Kp+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=TFzBaOC/2TaHpAAXsMNx1ZOxzsF8qABep5gh0E3jIaQ=; b=o25s/4YXN4WRlLOQncSGr/iofgT6ksxh13K5UcBu/3bppm5Z1FbDoQGzc06UMg0eO4 fTsEKb/Z3cwbqQwCKEPOPcQStvluHVGj2nX/30X3YDZdht1eTJmXeoc7eSxAxFmKeSoZ 3J07+lD1xlmwk7X9UGrDt4A4NtEZfcWvw7uwmiiznldXnsziFJSmsDjJL9KLI4Mm5NSk KuP0XJhkspHATbLAESstNKwSJ8v2XPIsxg1Y8FTmz56UsUn3MGLx+DN5BKklGoU90f0e YQexl80dpdzOZu7ied0Lfod4G8YpkgLsZcONlJbbJRXqH0pvwGQg3dUhEA9jtQ1GBt40 qPXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgLB+KFtBUl6GK5MJxO1iUHH7pEpyQKOUpDqgA9o8l9BQfy4htI s6XlWLaG8fkbJ/5GeStTmxLVfcG3kc6H X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb6JGMWbEuqj+XDDimPVvNyCgQn+MrCBiZ2w9q+IvfiFdorE0Ar6cEFo0TOhgs+s5Ghxz62S6k2RpxOzUnAtL1c= X-Received: by 10.25.67.24 with SMTP id q24mr51904lfa.70.1504639485815; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:24:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.81.18 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 12:24:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1697920.aIIVMSx0iY@dragon.local> References: <1697920.aIIVMSx0iY@dragon.local> From: Russell Haley Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 12:24:45 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD To: David Naylor Cc: Geoffrey Huntley , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Freebsd-mono Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:24:48 -0000 On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 11:52 AM, David Naylor wrote: > On Monday, 4 September 2017 10:54:21 Geoffrey Huntley wrote: >> See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllisWOCpU and >> https://twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/904227946084294656 > > Hi Geoffrey > > It is great to hear there is more interest in finishing the port of .NET Core > to FreeBSD (and, I hope, to have ports living in the Port's Collection). > > Would it be possible for you to put me (and the mono@ mailing list) in touch > with Karel and Tomas - I'm not on Twitter. > > I'll reply to this email (dropping ports@ and advocacy@) with more technical > details. > > Regards > > David Just an FYI: I found Karel's email address and dropped him a private message for more information (I also don't use twitter). I wanted to wait for permission before publishing any information on the mono mailing list (including his email address etc). I had the DotNet CORE and CLR running on FreeBSD using the instructions posted way back when. I also asked about more information a few months back on the DotNet forums but I can't find the message. The response was that "nothing was happening at the time". http://forums.dotnetfoundation.org/ Cheers, Russ From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 19:25:47 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DFFFE1AD9B for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:25:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x22e.google.com (mail-wr0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F20D77277E; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 19:25:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id a43so10569776wrc.0; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:25:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=NlhgwXv7fNnvY7v2efyJTh7nLsYTavc6IsBDgEhznzc=; b=RVJ13gtYn2nUjw+noAkrRfH5nE6524i/f2P0YSzdqweVT4HHe9iJ2hlgmzULKDbFAa Hf0ClbVwnwmaU6I6dk5X8bx+A/FTBHsY6kFeGPPkRzZ5Zo3mbuOgCzCzy/AyKYru8xxi TmvL+X+JBDnYI7ZTWexSJ0BHN1z8MSYDhv035EoTAPHjry+8EUBxSGzY2fn/a+gTdupG E5v2U3lcYcJYqMgKrUeB3hOBOjXGvVQirB3TlRxJzsJimSfjM1iWZWwUn0GT83atZp5s elDi6+t7qNjnVAS0dhVXN6YE+K+jXu+lzm68NOG3raQBacww0jUdVFYGwzm8Wx9o7pow cBdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization :user-agent:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=NlhgwXv7fNnvY7v2efyJTh7nLsYTavc6IsBDgEhznzc=; b=R095Z9JjO+gwDsLmZGhI772q7QavGEATQyx5Lfz4X02OyGIjrcF5aYKQCwSu2vRqC6 YQmrXKdcKkCaF6H7+PbmEM4KJ8or+VvyLXBQGtNtfiYlCjb8k9vcx/kTJAAQL8vOoM98 l2WI4oUVv5UOVU4ev5ispOmU5nro+t7eCWsOCpPLHoUXTawNxDytXqzNa01Z0ddrdVeM osuIZvfaS8Nw7EjToo3HpJOAriHgMcwu/GgP3JhOZ7SFjQpnjAkX3eDjQJk47LTPRDlY EIKyOVUM3sx8f0MuPOj+4lIoCeJSK7h7P0diDwJ+OqzYGi4PCAHaQBa8zwsBySS+ETl+ yWuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjgryu6axLOzfWjCCiPWntcKVFTJvXIqLh7XG+ohkciVflvF053 M43ENj0G6V2HBpqRhP4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7xODi6bdRv+m78JQrnEZ4cyhBguaDT2Rjy70VyXAJ8atuN6Xe4bqySSWfQz15gwKWwij65Cg== X-Received: by 10.223.128.33 with SMTP id 30mr70365wrk.9.1504639543374; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.local ([41.144.114.114]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id d5sm1319636wma.22.2017.09.05.12.25.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Sep 2017 12:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Cc: Russell Haley , Robert Alegrid , Romain =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarti=E8re?= Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 21:25:39 +0200 Message-ID: <1557586.GGzvBQ0jK6@dragon.local> Organization: Private User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/11.1-RELEASE-p1; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2401343.i3Q0SDaCj7"; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:25:47 -0000 --nextPart2401343.i3Q0SDaCj7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Saturday, 2 September 2017 07:40:28 Russell Haley wrote: > On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Robert Alegrid wrote: > >>Another problem with nugets packages is that you only get binaries, > >>right? That means that is something goes really wrong, there is no way > >>to audit the source code of what led to disaster. The problem is > >>similar with the few Java projects I gave a look at. My feeling is that > >>this is even worst :-( Ruby being interpreted, there is no such > >>problems. > >> > > NuGet packages have in their manifest a field to specify where the source > > code lives. However, since it's optional and is just a URL to the > > repository, it probably doesn't help much for this use case. > > Is this coming up because of the use of Nuget during the build process > or is it because of general concern for the user? The first issue is a practical one: with ports now requiring tens of nuget packages (and lock files generated by nuget - so we cannot cheat) it is becoming an issue with porting. The second issue is more a philosophical one around concern for the user. The discussion below covers this concern and doesn't change the immediate plans for handling nuget packages (as bundled dependencies). > As a professional DotNet developer, I agree with Mr. Alegrid for the > most part. Nuget is designed as a binary tool because DotNet is a > binary based system. It comes from a user mindset, not an opensource > mindset. Because of that, I question why we are having this > discussion. Is it not the decision of the user/developer how they > would like to use their package manager? Also, it is their choice if > they prefer to use sources. I sometimes do both. Stable packages from > Nuget and others from source. The question here is how easy is it for the developer to change the binaries they consume? A good way to illustrate the problem is the Heart Bleed bug in OpenSSL. Currently on FreeBSD the libopenssl.so file is centrally accessible, so to fix the bug just requires fixing the centrally stored libopenssl.so file. However, if all programs that used libopenssl.so had their own local copy (say statically compiled, or otherwise) the fix would be a headache. In the land of Ports, we would need to patch (or wait for an update of) every single port that used OpenSSL. This is obviously a problematic situation to be in. Philosophically it is one of the differences between Windows (everyone bundles all their dependencies) and Unix [1] (all dependencies are centrally available). > Nuget is designed for local, per project resources. It is particularly > effective when developing across many developers as it will go and get > the packages for you automatically at build time (wicked cool feature, > which seamlessly mixes source with binary distribution). Items that > are supposed to live system wide are to be stored in the General > Assembly Cache (GAC) and should be designed to be put there. You can > get Nuget to drop things in the GAC but have not used this feature. > The GAC is designed around large scale software deployments which, > sadly, I don't think will ever apply to mono on FreeBSD. In a limited sense, nuget is redundant on FreeBSD thanks to the Ports Collection and pkg - but I do see the need on Windows and more generally in the .NET ecosystem. Do you perhaps have any links that detail how nuget can store dlls in the GAC? > Worrying about per-port repositories for Nuget is not a thing because > the manifest within DotNet applications decides what runtime version > of the assembly to use at build time so it is necessarily per-port. > Also, DotNet can have hard or soft links (I forget the terminology) to > required assemblies in the sense they can specify to use any version > or a specific version, and can specify if the assemblies require to be > signed (i.e. verified by the authors credentials against a trusted > list). The GAC handles versioning for system level assemblies and if > you overwrite a required version in your local repository it's a > development error that you need to sort yourself. Unfortunately, we do need to worry about per ports dependencies. In the practical case it is around the need to download the nuget packages within the Ports Collections framework (so we get security protection, etc), before the build phase. Ports are not allowed interest access during build. Regards [1] I know PC-BSD, for a while at least, also bundles all dependencies within a PBI? --nextPart2401343.i3Q0SDaCj7 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAABCgB9FiEElI7FEaJ/AwLnmbU6rWP6jday2lUFAlmu+jNfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDk0 OEVDNTExQTI3RjAzMDJFNzk5QjUzQUFENjNGQThERDZCMkRBNTUACgkQrWP6jday 2lV8VBAAytK0rhZtNPbzvjk8eLyO/XUAGRsKJfVVIs/11XgsO1oAysfyidqNeVpP M2nyErWKHY37HNXVhBqMrw4fD03e8T30JWUdevVemf//phVjbx1YKTrHtKUydWAQ 8jKIYcHQs3lg/5wkLNFpdbqsmDHFNGAUat/WaIKal2LeJ1KSJ0cUpHQ4zQ3I+OwW f0pTSLJ8/m/7wg474Mun5+sXgszk+lg8yNgOYM2VvQDkAaXOlp8tS4FdKGSvLtp7 ViFdjcfgeItneNrU7qgOwN2/acXWLCIb3lVTCys2BtLskzuMx+K0ZngQOYJo7f2t kMCjwC2zW4D9jlcV99zDYarUK057aYgFOHfQcW4HiheR0tliWhN4A08Ir+qFerwt 8kstQVczoBtOYcXvda9Yz9s1B6o3LpPvgzJ+O92a1mKw3AzqCIc+NjRhPk0soUSv Jt34BbA4lvxMQNJK8ndt78JGn6H2ou70/H4yhzU8zYCeyL9PMkRUuvtClvi/mVoP bmG/4suQxJhjbOgynaxwz2hNU7q/J0ADDMba6y08ZvQaLvmqlx4esXoWaLlgOJw9 uJQVboOSv/bsONqdb692+NCDP3/j9YqbeS5ckT37Rn38BiqyD2R9bjbtLi2UPeSs A3tP2SPwwT/iUOzHDY3f9u0ODXdAV8h0RlwANTGcD3t7B5Q2tyU= =jQpT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2401343.i3Q0SDaCj7-- From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Tue Sep 5 20:09:20 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C9D2E1CC02 for ; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 20:09:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x22f.google.com (mail-lf0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 397A47FF62; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 20:09:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 80so8522856lfy.4; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 13:09:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fLc4LFICu9BRq/BS+vSoQS0X2ExigWK3fqa3WaFg9IM=; b=kK7eSU43nN8TOu3wznKFLKm6RdSM5OROX9nLd0aAVF379iaomfP4qMQEyNLwnlAKJc sX82QfaJX8T8CGA8Lujf4b0+GYQjcvCNKpx9FGCc8HnlDK8FOOx6WBXNHt61xpqKN3Jn KCQFtlGNIPQL+oFdbiamt3e3m6N9pdS5olmPC9NuTJvI9ToULT6BzbGjU/a4hjxng0w1 /BXEVWuf10i064vmppcnO7pR5RqcOQxe178ceq8belzKiv4dVBc0pwGQSSm36SUDkGm1 tILXazWUbQWvsQAOBwo4hnQCrvnLqOF2iCvGnYPIbXp5Abw0ZcGqE3Z2XYAW3WDC+Hba uZFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fLc4LFICu9BRq/BS+vSoQS0X2ExigWK3fqa3WaFg9IM=; b=orcoGLRS99GCebHGkiJ6zY3eCFStiu0j/U64aWwQRDocrImbaGYko/Me7SXwJClw27 uRzANeJXf0C1k7U/cqTinZ1/nklt1W7RhDT8HPIwFhArhLa8BJHqg6Fq8/BTWdL1+xqq BlcLH1I2fM3FAb6DFZpFZiG6apFrK+KCimupv9vzgMmMNg2CdTOS8+rpXjaj/pbtZlUw QDv2fUjn+zJVapxZZ47NSWQLTXyP2G15+GA+WGQej0iaMlDCOXvMx6dcAaTocNvgHF+i t2PamWmLx+nOCesOKPpd260gBYQpzS7TaDCq/jKt3NtuM6sgoAofO+wb2+ZY5UzMhFKR y8lQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhqasfP+xF0MQml0kd8DZi6nXGx5xRvWndhqfc6nI1sb2uPrxM5 5LAWkdAo4GQmZEqilmsTiajjAyI0qw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7YeYZxSqlLWpuAxkGsgT4afJeR6PtzaNZRqlYjpBpXFYgntzbMt1HkrkEBH8jNC9vfT+idnOWMyYHDZUxJEAI= X-Received: by 10.25.67.24 with SMTP id q24mr92176lfa.70.1504642155340; Tue, 05 Sep 2017 13:09:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.81.18 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Sep 2017 13:09:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1557586.GGzvBQ0jK6@dragon.local> References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> <1557586.GGzvBQ0jK6@dragon.local> From: Russell Haley Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2017 13:09:14 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 To: David Naylor Cc: Freebsd-mono , Robert Alegrid , =?UTF-8?Q?Romain_Tarti=C3=A8re?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2017 20:09:20 -0000 * I apologize for being lazy and linking to stack exchange answers. In a perfect world I would go and look this stuff up in the Nuget documentation. It leaves open the possibility of miss-interpretation (by me) and possible wrong answers. On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:25 PM, David Naylor wrote: > On Saturday, 2 September 2017 07:40:28 Russell Haley wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Robert Alegrid > wrote: >> >>Another problem with nugets packages is that you only get binaries, >> >>right? That means that is something goes really wrong, there is no way >> >>to audit the source code of what led to disaster. The problem is >> >>similar with the few Java projects I gave a look at. My feeling is that >> >>this is even worst :-( Ruby being interpreted, there is no such >> >>problems. >> >> >> > NuGet packages have in their manifest a field to specify where the source >> > code lives. However, since it's optional and is just a URL to the >> > repository, it probably doesn't help much for this use case. >> >> Is this coming up because of the use of Nuget during the build process >> or is it because of general concern for the user? > > The first issue is a practical one: with ports now requiring tens of nuget > packages (and lock files generated by nuget - so we cannot cheat) it is > becoming an issue with porting. Agreed. A poor deployment strategy by the Mono team IMHO. > The second issue is more a philosophical one around concern for the user. The > discussion below covers this concern and doesn't change the immediate plans > for handling nuget packages (as bundled dependencies). > >> As a professional DotNet developer, I agree with Mr. Alegrid for the >> most part. Nuget is designed as a binary tool because DotNet is a >> binary based system. It comes from a user mindset, not an opensource >> mindset. Because of that, I question why we are having this >> discussion. Is it not the decision of the user/developer how they >> would like to use their package manager? Also, it is their choice if >> they prefer to use sources. I sometimes do both. Stable packages from >> Nuget and others from source. > > The question here is how easy is it for the developer to change the binaries > they consume? > > A good way to illustrate the problem is the Heart Bleed bug in OpenSSL. > Currently on FreeBSD the libopenssl.so file is centrally accessible, so to fix > the bug just requires fixing the centrally stored libopenssl.so file. > However, if all programs that used libopenssl.so had their own local copy (say > statically compiled, or otherwise) the fix would be a headache. In the land > of Ports, we would need to patch (or wait for an update of) every single port > that used OpenSSL. > > This is obviously a problematic situation to be in. Philosophically it is one > of the differences between Windows (everyone bundles all their dependencies) > and Unix [1] (all dependencies are centrally available). My perspective is that the entire point of Nuget is allow a developer to intrinsically link his project to a binary file of a specific version and be confident that the package manager will always download and link to that version (see the answer here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19817378/is-it-possible-to-add-update-assemblies-to-the-gac-via-a-nuget-package.). If the developer *wants* to always use the latest version, that is something the developer can configure (see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24765802/nuget-spec-dependencies-get-latest-version). Though I agree with your point, I don't agree that this is a Unix/Windows difference. There are plenty of packages and applications on Unix where the developer chose not to use the global version and "Library Hell" is a real thing that FreeBSD handles very manually by specifying the version in the port name (Lua is a great example having lua51, lua52 and lua53). Conversely, Windows spent a long time using the registry (shudder) and the GAC has existed since the inception of DotNet. For DotNet, the decision to move to per-installation libraries has been a conscious choice made irrespective of OS philosophy. >> Nuget is designed for local, per project resources. It is particularly >> effective when developing across many developers as it will go and get >> the packages for you automatically at build time (wicked cool feature, >> which seamlessly mixes source with binary distribution). Items that >> are supposed to live system wide are to be stored in the General >> Assembly Cache (GAC) and should be designed to be put there. You can >> get Nuget to drop things in the GAC but have not used this feature. >> The GAC is designed around large scale software deployments which, >> sadly, I don't think will ever apply to mono on FreeBSD. > > In a limited sense, nuget is redundant on FreeBSD thanks to the Ports > Collection and pkg - but I do see the need on Windows and more generally in > the .NET ecosystem. > > Do you perhaps have any links that detail how nuget can store dlls in the GAC? I made a quick look and perhaps I'm incorrect. Everything indicates that registering with the GAC needs to be done externally (i.e. via PowerShell. lolz). None the less, the GAC is a powerful tool that perhaps we could leverage (although it's availability on a system with no runtime is suspect!). >> Worrying about per-port repositories for Nuget is not a thing because >> the manifest within DotNet applications decides what runtime version >> of the assembly to use at build time so it is necessarily per-port. >> Also, DotNet can have hard or soft links (I forget the terminology) to >> required assemblies in the sense they can specify to use any version >> or a specific version, and can specify if the assemblies require to be >> signed (i.e. verified by the authors credentials against a trusted >> list). The GAC handles versioning for system level assemblies and if >> you overwrite a required version in your local repository it's a >> development error that you need to sort yourself. > > Unfortunately, we do need to worry about per ports dependencies. In the > practical case it is around the need to download the nuget packages within the > Ports Collections framework (so we get security protection, etc), before the > build phase. Ports are not allowed interest access during build. In my mind, all the build tools/build dependencies should be handled differently from the runtime dependencies. These binaries we are discussing are only used for bootstrapping if I understand correctly. Build items specified within the port that are only available as binaries from nuget should be downloaded into the "work" directory and discarded after the build is complete (via make clean). I would think this is true unless said binaries are also runtime requirements, but in that case I would think the runtime required copies should be built from source where possible. For What It's Worth, Russ From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Thu Sep 7 18:09:13 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E61E05FFF for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 301FF6AC9D; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naylor.b.david@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id k20so833738wre.4; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:09:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=/+3alZrOelVll3kwyBN9X0R700b3ButttqnTJA4561M=; b=XsXNjKJFKuPz5AtrRZGaLJrtm/SFoPQcPPv58h3lYALMwAuoj9x4EjmYsVFFpKj29U FSWsRmAvAnC97Kfue6/HNBopUZsTYiypsfiQ0cMPL+THc844j6+kDnVMpPa4uPHxs9vL N8bMYRZaDWyt4epZXuxJjO7J9BKPyr9USpWy+D4QLsGhB9AzJqKXvaB+dxXZcHKylU4A Kmn51mYk3ddFYBmTx4utwc6v7NAjTzI1rn0H/ogM7H+U5ehSo+e9uI3Jd7FVnLegV0T4 EiE4/jVJ+Gag0/lrhyaJCj3K6rTP589zNt54DXNATyQWhNDsklP68MSoYuhphFAIJAF4 jEBQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:organization :user-agent:in-reply-to:references:mime-version; bh=/+3alZrOelVll3kwyBN9X0R700b3ButttqnTJA4561M=; b=WakWCtxZhcf9QV33ByS6daDfPBCBC+7uLLwoo6ccMRUHUXfSGICreWagX+bF5han82 5KMKlEDGp91319fJnWVgYMDdoQ0oRoqxwJ8AK89YTaiTObmcfRQMP2Jkjm/ATOTApqhX BpETRBybdB1bkwPNZjGzG7XK9YplzT8BL3rbGo/Xw2wyt90h19aK/OexzzcnWULG4DWK X9VxG8Z+mChGQr6MYwCX7mlZNT5I9plBIzwyZMSWwNmO9am79kps8ygMFv3g2rd9sleS 1RgyMrgUxivwwogT9wmWgU6Pn6w82ve2FLAhEs/1dhuToswmbBL2d6MP7eiZwpL+k8xd ZvxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiTqoWp3UJFiMGhdInIpfnNWGR9LGjOkQRsVTbah49kULAVtHdy pyfLBTofPs93rA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7ml/jiUFB84IO+22l117JUZK6kfS+NjnUAcyNsJEt7c52Hgio/FwtPIcd3JMYlwmnjbOiHGg== X-Received: by 10.223.160.46 with SMTP id k43mr146843wrk.113.1504807750962; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.local ([41.144.114.114]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r3sm79556wmf.0.2017.09.07.11.09.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Sep 2017 11:09:08 -0700 (PDT) From: David Naylor To: Russell Haley Cc: Freebsd-mono , Robert Alegrid , Romain =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tarti=E8re?= Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 20:09:05 +0200 Message-ID: <2223962.JDsoWRiPl4@dragon.local> Organization: Private User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/11.1-RELEASE-p1; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> <1557586.GGzvBQ0jK6@dragon.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1626266.8Q2CAVUMu1"; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 18:09:14 -0000 --nextPart1626266.8Q2CAVUMu1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Tuesday, 5 September 2017 13:09:14 Russell Haley wrote: > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:25 PM, David Naylor wrote: > > On Saturday, 2 September 2017 07:40:28 Russell Haley wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Robert Alegrid > >> Worrying about per-port repositories for Nuget is not a thing because > >> the manifest within DotNet applications decides what runtime version > >> of the assembly to use at build time so it is necessarily per-port. > >> Also, DotNet can have hard or soft links (I forget the terminology) to > >> required assemblies in the sense they can specify to use any version > >> or a specific version, and can specify if the assemblies require to be > >> signed (i.e. verified by the authors credentials against a trusted > >> list). The GAC handles versioning for system level assemblies and if > >> you overwrite a required version in your local repository it's a > >> development error that you need to sort yourself. > > > > Unfortunately, we do need to worry about per ports dependencies. In the > > practical case it is around the need to download the nuget packages within > > the Ports Collections framework (so we get security protection, etc), > > before the build phase. Ports are not allowed interest access during > > build. > > In my mind, all the build tools/build dependencies should be handled > differently from the runtime dependencies. These binaries we are > discussing are only used for bootstrapping if I understand correctly. > Build items specified within the port that are only available as > binaries from nuget should be downloaded into the "work" directory and > discarded after the build is complete (via make clean). I would think > this is true unless said binaries are also runtime requirements, but > in that case I would think the runtime required copies should be built > from source where possible. I agree with the above - except how do we define a runtime dependency: a) If the dependency needs to be installed (i.e. `pkg add`) for the program to run; or b) The program needs the dependency's dll (even if it is bundled) to run I think the policy should be for (b) [but (a) for now due to practical issues]. Regards --nextPart1626266.8Q2CAVUMu1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAABCgB9FiEElI7FEaJ/AwLnmbU6rWP6jday2lUFAlmxi0FfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDk0 OEVDNTExQTI3RjAzMDJFNzk5QjUzQUFENjNGQThERDZCMkRBNTUACgkQrWP6jday 2lWJQw//V4QUurGNgEC/TPNtwuJ2FEqzIbdR2+PiD95s+DScOYga2OcA2HPzwwd7 3VLkCPNfqkHxfJMvwiqIFgOLWw9LmUj04DG9X8vrRDN/65ODjDPoRvHPvkYoQGzQ J8bndJXZryrzOVQNMQK45Y6bDcVjs4TqgJYR/gAHO/ORnxX7+M/yOLrf5k0LRoEa Zr0epuH186/69JxyNz3L1921+jw0It46OkKJFKd1RpFpQuWzGGVMe9sSIZjiPDGO a+UN1zB73FOTd0DGJnF3RQZp4qOUh/KARNzB28atNuf+80AF1+vW705Pbc4rkDTa IpCbuOKFlu27tHpwL8dyDAbWqrong6zWy0VJ9glFpz6zFoF0hyH6fbmyyvIP5euv eO80ItBurf7ZOZuQ62ajsBWe9kJLToIvmNrftVapwtbzccNMJYsYdVI/Ovvl6m11 1OgsCw8LCsSshtOId2Rp350dyc4VzwYXm9InBrVx5NwVpizzsTh2FuVxDDCB6YJx KDd4jxKBmUq3t6Drzg9mSZZiVRjnzjfEsXqRc9Zcp0Ply9oP7gd5LU3p97i8VnQ2 Qbxj31J7A4KWyP+CH//zCRKi95xbSjrrWSUHhPeP1o8kvsUeKcOqxdZLPM3xDKON wQpI0WRJo6SkJE+kfhcgnvU5FjiqaADvm+XKCFtZjxD6PZZSdW8= =m3Pq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1626266.8Q2CAVUMu1-- From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Fri Sep 8 00:36:22 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D5EE1B11C for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:36:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90DB9833EC; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:36:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id l196so2450853lfl.1; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:36:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RMeD81Og5/EuiAUcZxFbpOwg1mf1pFbtMj5/pNkqXD4=; b=bod3soneUJ5wMAFIcw2cN7KuTV5YWBhGxO4QYiKV1K7bU3UlFu2ArB3HIiJ41b6ZVF LvFyH1tGTnRLjZUYUsTbDL7odSagqS3592KJHHTjDxydiHyOsC+sfIsAnsAjypb1Gpif gvLjMbQTl4zBUHHGSzosPN/844SwNsDnAhbRwHQf/GLAdtfq3whwdz2yk1dJ8eQO7kbB isA2MrTX3fzdcK7gmxjvCUECeCb+l9u/8J3zvByy3MLVUYOWDSL+VJIs+3nWr6GrOPbO l07l0vj5IJSb2eHNIlhnPs4eQYyc0QsEBCpFKIHlrO7UO5ehiQXvexnHCGIEN376Pnh4 aQkQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RMeD81Og5/EuiAUcZxFbpOwg1mf1pFbtMj5/pNkqXD4=; b=i6MGtUCxD4T6LZEReZ27ngW32BkY6Et5xBv9lRVV/6ZewMv2bMmbKZn0ixzfQm5Bqu 9ehMqtgQ1L0WFd41wWM31Emo/QkHAXeq9XireEPEudx9T/oDbzdseKWEO9cHZjitsOVc mcomK5MT4lLwV8VkdYyL1v78/gJKWX0cEOCKReyePVw8/9+ZiRLChzJN/41rY2gqSNWh 1wwaoi0ZWkNcUy0ZFrmb7ZnUJvj53/YTKgUs1boocpPvnymlzBO+I3D7Zl3vs9b8RsM9 jdBxUCQTQZnG40hiznlxCEpPkRK4asWJSdgMHnvD9XRGyeeYR+Rt07GIEHUVrqVTy4aY l6iQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUggvO2RL1J2R5QTJgmQ3IZNSjNTQA7VV8D2glhYisNdiHJoqV8q 8AD6smhBPPAOiSg2vMFFDlyBUtwt+moa X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QA22F8vibeSUuwVqaz/645t6TYkfSeRci+SmsMCrwDP3KEaIyFjzS+BaJ2p6yGTdkivXNrEqZkvRjlgyVjS69M= X-Received: by 10.25.19.197 with SMTP id 66mr275573lft.221.1504830978540; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:36:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.81.18 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:36:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2223962.JDsoWRiPl4@dragon.local> References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> <1557586.GGzvBQ0jK6@dragon.local> <2223962.JDsoWRiPl4@dragon.local> From: Russell Haley Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:36:17 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 To: David Naylor Cc: Freebsd-mono , Robert Alegrid , =?UTF-8?Q?Romain_Tarti=C3=A8re?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 00:36:22 -0000 On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:09 AM, David Naylor wrote: > On Tuesday, 5 September 2017 13:09:14 Russell Haley wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:25 PM, David Naylor > wrote: >> > On Saturday, 2 September 2017 07:40:28 Russell Haley wrote: >> >> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Robert Alegrid >> >> Worrying about per-port repositories for Nuget is not a thing because >> >> the manifest within DotNet applications decides what runtime version >> >> of the assembly to use at build time so it is necessarily per-port. >> >> Also, DotNet can have hard or soft links (I forget the terminology) to >> >> required assemblies in the sense they can specify to use any version >> >> or a specific version, and can specify if the assemblies require to be >> >> signed (i.e. verified by the authors credentials against a trusted >> >> list). The GAC handles versioning for system level assemblies and if >> >> you overwrite a required version in your local repository it's a >> >> development error that you need to sort yourself. >> > >> > Unfortunately, we do need to worry about per ports dependencies. In the >> > practical case it is around the need to download the nuget packages within >> > the Ports Collections framework (so we get security protection, etc), >> > before the build phase. Ports are not allowed interest access during >> > build. >> >> In my mind, all the build tools/build dependencies should be handled >> differently from the runtime dependencies. These binaries we are >> discussing are only used for bootstrapping if I understand correctly. >> Build items specified within the port that are only available as >> binaries from nuget should be downloaded into the "work" directory and >> discarded after the build is complete (via make clean). I would think >> this is true unless said binaries are also runtime requirements, but >> in that case I would think the runtime required copies should be built >> from source where possible. > > I agree with the above - except how do we define a runtime dependency: > a) If the dependency needs to be installed (i.e. `pkg add`) for the program > to run; or > b) The program needs the dependency's dll (even if it is bundled) to run > > I think the policy should be for (b) [but (a) for now due to practical > issues]. > > Regards Hi David, TLDR; I agree with you, but since I typed out my thoughts, I'll add it to the discussion... A subtle but important distinction. Also, are all items available in pkg built from source? If yes, does that mean pkg is a source or binary download? (kaboom! My head explodes). My attempt at clarity about what constitutes a runtime dependency: First we should clarify what dependency means in this context. I think what we are really meaning is *external* dependency. If the sources (sigh, or binaries. I may come from Windows land, but it still makes me sad...) are provided by the package itself and used during runtime, it is NOT an external runtime dependency and should not be considered. This may be splitting hairs though. What if a version of OpenSSL is included as source and built by the applications build tools? Is it an internal or external dependency? (kaboom!). Again, I think we could (willfully) simplify this by saying "anything not built (or downloaded) by the application build tool for use by the build tools output" is an external dependency and of interest to the discussion. In the end, I think you are correct in your assessment. Policy A (external dependencies) is really what we are talking about now, but a shift to a more granular view of a package may provide flexibility. That flexibility may come at the potential cost of adding complexity and uncertainty (i.e. allowing someone to change an 'internal dependency' package would have consequences). One must ask though, if the user really wants to start mucking with internal library versions, that user should just build from source themselves. Is the ports tool a general tool for users, or a source manager for developers (a la Git or Sourceforge)? As always, applying requirements gathering practices to a problem is probably wise: What is our use case for Ports? Russ From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Fri Sep 8 00:51:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D25E1BEEC; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:51:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x243.google.com (mail-lf0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49DA51A8B; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:51:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x243.google.com with SMTP id h80so490956lfe.1; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:51:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2PsJgeRXxlCoNfpr2gPkqZqVKMQXrSq4sUylHqgG+z0=; b=MU9I/o/13FzAklnYSJQFUhlzPILOuAvZQWsqZVN7+jM7+aklQUP2x1zLj/vNYdPif6 0uILk93oEKIRJrgNhXdtzBcwe7j6GZ5k7NF0eZRpHia42MJxKJFOTXL33V5Vp/4/++3A CgaFERcGpc+qnM5OOZMldqIFhqL9ktmxUAz1f1omjAcz+xBDviUygGMs4fqVme5nUZc5 xY3Ix5ozOq/pGJw7tXb4R4sfEqAOPVyKd2AX0BGrL1IaCT0zDKkN4cRWuaEepIe2gXVY EkanS6iu7PrIsFUz01vMIvx1FpQbwKJdtY5107zH96HjAA9fqSdyuDOCYQ5tMGJycuch hC2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2PsJgeRXxlCoNfpr2gPkqZqVKMQXrSq4sUylHqgG+z0=; b=r4vruYhtHtS64GOHUSIf0PS57FYGPOfkPu9Bmd/w3ELZi0kv7huNum64rk94RJXELz lYCA96aUkDvMH3oBTCKekkXPbmFymaYKHJEkczZ2j5QrWtKRUC57J1QQDdO/LwG+zBWQ HMIyEQY82p/V4xmQ7dp8xQXy+Vjz0Vhg3Am/XR8qZUggWljsSGubRWu4ZAKUOlPGuCAf qzIUAVTrKFtNybBX6O3uk3VqdcUpH2SGYK3+bW/ZF+VYFRRL9VeWPJ7AUzuL8+NAHbUM EKJ0EBX7rhqRb8+uwv6VwYS9ZebrH023mjH0g4nWs4/6FoJw3NKGIvU+IFLeJb0sgI2H m2LQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUguxr3W4qDTe1YkxFHIzFQqy6sBoCReBLPGrqWUQQDMVgSbq7Cx ewocCb/QmuyzAuz1glmnjYC1Nb56xw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDvTSFmNxoISxNUAydAW+SPndxcNzOaM8gJKUGFzcidRCPjdvABLYXlzDXL1ocOzXvL8hk/U+mNdvtwySSDANQ= X-Received: by 10.46.2.198 with SMTP id y67mr341896lje.85.1504831874890; Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:51:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.81.18 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:51:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1697920.aIIVMSx0iY@dragon.local> From: Russell Haley Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 17:51:14 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Help Wanted - Work with MSFT and help finish the port of .NET Core to FreeBSD To: David Naylor Cc: Geoffrey Huntley , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Freebsd-mono Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 00:51:18 -0000 Hi I just dropped a twitter to Karel (suddenly feel less smart) and this was his response: "Yep, I was poking at a plan internally first. Got some hinys and will reply tomorrow. Tomas even made some progress ." Sweet! Russ On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Russell Haley wrote: > On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 11:52 AM, David Naylor wrote: >> On Monday, 4 September 2017 10:54:21 Geoffrey Huntley wrote: >>> See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHllisWOCpU and >>> https://twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/904227946084294656 >> >> Hi Geoffrey >> >> It is great to hear there is more interest in finishing the port of .NET Core >> to FreeBSD (and, I hope, to have ports living in the Port's Collection). >> >> Would it be possible for you to put me (and the mono@ mailing list) in touch >> with Karel and Tomas - I'm not on Twitter. >> >> I'll reply to this email (dropping ports@ and advocacy@) with more technical >> details. >> >> Regards >> >> David > > Just an FYI: I found Karel's email address and dropped him a private > message for more information (I also don't use twitter). I wanted to > wait for permission before publishing any information on the mono > mailing list (including his email address etc). > > I had the DotNet CORE and CLR running on FreeBSD using the > instructions posted way back when. I also asked about more information > a few months back on the DotNet forums but I can't find the message. > The response was that "nothing was happening at the time". > http://forums.dotnetfoundation.org/ > > > Cheers, > > Russ From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Fri Sep 8 07:41:39 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52A4E09153 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:41:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from romain@marvin.blogreen.org) Received: from marvin.blogreen.org (blogreen.org [IPv6:2001:41d0:fea8:8901::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2DA67D5E1 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:41:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from romain@marvin.blogreen.org) Received: by marvin.blogreen.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id CD2969D8DF; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:41:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:41:35 +0200 From: Romain =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tarti=E8re?= To: Russell Haley Cc: Freebsd-mono Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 Message-ID: <20170908074135.GA76671@blogreen.org> Mail-Followup-To: Russell Haley , Freebsd-mono References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> <1557586.GGzvBQ0jK6@dragon.local> <2223962.JDsoWRiPl4@dragon.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://romain.blogreen.org/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.3 (2017-05-23) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 07:41:39 -0000 --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 05:36:17PM -0700, Russell Haley wrote: > A subtle but important distinction. Also, are all items available in > pkg built from source? If yes, does that mean pkg is a source or > binary download? (kaboom! My head explodes). Unfortunately, some packages are not build from source. Let's recap, FreeBSD has a ports tree and also packages: - When installing through the ports tree, you build the software from source. Any missing build or run dependency is also build from source. The "ports tree" is basically a set of rules to build each piece of software, and is made available by the FreeBSD project on the internet; - When you install using packages, you install binaries. Only missing run-time dependencies are installed using packages (no build-dependencies since you build nothing, so you end-up with less software installed). The packages you install have been build using the ports tree (with ports-mgmt/poudriere for example) on some machine of the FreeBSD project, and made available to the wild. So, when using pkg(8), you only handle binary packages, never source code. But the opposite is not true: the ports tree attempts to cope with redistribution restrictions [1], so some ports will just download and install binary blobs (e.g. proprietary drivers). By extension, some ports decided to trim-down build dependencies by simply downloading a binary (it works well for things like Java and .Net because they are not native binaries). To check this, have a look at the many Java project (e.g. net/activemq downloads a tarball containing 107 .jar files and has NO_BUILD set, so the port just put the files at the right place, but does nothing more). Even some upstream projects trend to do so, for example, when compiling monodevelop from upstream's source, the build procedure use nugets to download dependencies as binary blobs. I understand that it eases-up the life of the project's developers, but is not in-line with the philosophy of the ports tree. Ports are supposed to build from source, quoting the porter handbook [2]: =AB Always use mainstream sources when and where possible =BB. Russell, do these details help preventing your head from exploding? References: 1. https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/book= =2Ehtml#porting-restrictions 2. https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/book= =2Ehtml#slow-sources --=20 Romain Tarti=E8re http://people.FreeBSD.org/~romain/ pgp: 8234 9A78 E7C0 B807 0B59 80FF BA4D 1D95 5112 336F (ID: 0x5112336F) (plain text =3Dnon-HTML=3D PGP/GPG encrypted/signed e-mail much appreciated) --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEEgjSaeOfAuAcLWYD/uk0dlVESM28FAlmySawACgkQuk0dlVES M2+XWgv/frHAIQ8qamst4fOyV4vBEGBgUO2EuBGZuuXww3n2IRuOwU2Em9q5jqsQ Oid5ASPq14t6+lvz8YYCva2QU438MHo8DgW/HY0EYqgdM505kAMWxktWvksKO/JW 6JGrv74pgYQJSCoYj1uPLcLYIbFTXEMikTMXPiQobFxxeVxTEFSxY1FsF8h6Qk1Z 78wnYKDp+Ftlwu50HpIyb2Zt5KlUBWTdnJoRz2UEnClIfc9VfiZ9vIj8C96sgiPf JSKqqiU8HODO2KmdwQ9+4S+YEaP4haMDbgFdUDF9Q4S4e8iWElglC94mAjqJcNLu iONGma7Lqdj2Y2UgZS+KJe7flf157lPnT1XsU+kKLtAGVz1FJGmvCbKQqJblLnKA +t41LfjjfFPRnOhNn99+GKdexdOrIJDC4RZYCPYoQeY+g6UlDnFBfCm6J+c/zZug /VgJimfE5Da6lKCLFuopsEqvixqthu374HaF8QkEktRFJxVS+CzX5oUts7q1rFUm P6r+hA+L =zWx9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK-- From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Fri Sep 8 07:56:10 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3529E0969D for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:56:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from romain@marvin.blogreen.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59EF58086E for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:56:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from romain@marvin.blogreen.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D69E9E0969C; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6308E0969A for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:56:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from romain@marvin.blogreen.org) Received: from marvin.blogreen.org (blogreen.org [IPv6:2001:41d0:fea8:8901::2]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4162880864 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 07:56:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from romain@marvin.blogreen.org) Received: by marvin.blogreen.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 61AF59D8F1; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:56:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:56:07 +0200 From: Romain =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tarti=E8re?= To: mono@freebsd.org Subject: EuroBSDcon 2017 Message-ID: <20170908075607.GB76671@blogreen.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XF85m9dhOBO43t/C" Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: http://romain.blogreen.org/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.3 (2017-05-23) X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 07:56:10 -0000 --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello everybody, While I am less involved in the mono@ team for some years (since I changed $JOB) and my knowledge related to all .Net stuff is weak AND obsolete, I wanted to tell you that I will attend EuroBSDcon at the end of the month. If you are attending too, feel free to reach me! You might teach me a lot regarding Mono and .Net, and I would be happy to share some porter experience ;-) --=20 Romain Tarti=E8re http://people.FreeBSD.org/~romain/ pgp: 8234 9A78 E7C0 B807 0B59 80FF BA4D 1D95 5112 336F (ID: 0x5112336F) (plain text =3Dnon-HTML=3D PGP/GPG encrypted/signed e-mail much appreciated) --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEEgjSaeOfAuAcLWYD/uk0dlVESM28FAlmyTRcACgkQuk0dlVES M28nwgv/VllHEUgl8T6zZVnA+GoUHxLUnjOBbhLk64te7WizZCOyKPgLkwx34coZ IlPlJW/SKufkRcmPIkQh/iQFdYNaXA9/kclN2nYMuPmy3WTYdFJxvqcE2mjxScgx I0QbXclN3/FqGly1TMBTj6UbF2Rf6cLcrPFbOVq7MDrSuAUMrX2Jr80Q/pYMbKRm SXXxzcV2/puMYDxPK9wndTYM/8tbvC4hslVLEFBFPTLl7eGQGWdr2OvBRJHyQih8 P3S+1Pk7+lr7TONJ4rtoAiVheGT/T+jLRWyvyFdxQIaednZ7eFQsgwl3a1wfLFJq bfiud5xlbsenbSi5k5tklQtZb4OVwRaXydzb+KZLezgjK8IIJQWIYn8wDBa8vpS2 +HGKG815qzJ4g12WEjK6y4Gi6zf/vv93Oeeg3Mf/Su5GfgScQGNd8HQibcQO+VY5 aHdMxaSdnyitwbP0aMwzgbZOoapoj13X+s7umV050CF8mEmC7MhM1eGMFNsZxlzb t+c+nKfF =6Ybg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XF85m9dhOBO43t/C-- From owner-freebsd-mono@freebsd.org Fri Sep 8 23:35:40 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mono@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0F6E11CC6 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 23:35:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x234.google.com (mail-lf0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A24F46F700 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 23:35:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from russ.haley@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x234.google.com with SMTP id d17so8537966lfe.2 for ; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 16:35:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kiNWqxJrgM04djJ9U/eiOodXVBSpEZaDzW+Z0Ei4+Ck=; b=GSozWNKPsPzIacM6ciOAXCud78J1fLlAkmbEPUQVCJfPoAN2dFwKqBe4SXeps0XdaQ n8NOkSekt+llkdK6nB1Whe6xKAABTUDd23/+ynri5S5rWiU9lhN24KvtZOgj2uYS6Uut YPcOV8f54zQvBAjnIJzNyhtiTGYfoKTcnGZbX5iaDjRFYDJcS5WYvVGlXJ+8lv7iaUMs BnHYgYASatH+6P8BmFpb7+U12yrUD1ZQzc+vtRG3rMTMxPZJG/ruceIAQQgtgVGnLOpu SUqvgO+OOv4Q+FBum3ADMj3/pgEDcySBGG+PaCubphfyX2aFpODKSMjhEnJnDRxc9NN6 Wngg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kiNWqxJrgM04djJ9U/eiOodXVBSpEZaDzW+Z0Ei4+Ck=; b=XJ5ebfuOimz5BEZok4rH8gJNo5w27hM+8wfK4XXbuHMSszUgZaKUm7vliYMbiqKQw8 Ne3hHWyCYimrAzD6HYNcCPzBDqotx8cZ+JwJr+j1l0IPGQe10XFORpTPATyfjkH8gdzc YG1Nn4jyxQwMlITwLT9GS566cHHZZzqSPJ/hHbuh/d4I36Ir5Bco6abWJO+YJw/LdtcI Z14Gm+jYcvLmJKwZ8fKgLdHZ9KXcdx2sbKObBygyAC4ZWoFcXqwEmWmtZI3Q7mGOfd64 Yai3rU/lK3mYLFgpAs8rgHDkyfQIXHaL5DuGJWl5y8lw7Cnp0sgChLRX57XzDhzZHhk8 LYBA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiOZJzI+OTfTNM/soyiIg6T/YoKcjm0MKit9hjTrbCxen9x9WuQ gU8OqDx8TM0Gdvy0y8zgppF3tkzOlQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCeGUUbd8OX6GrW/5JQbaoaFENB7MMMT9qXLfBflejcIm4Oqf5lGrTB8l24aJ7nEr0z8SEut8eD5+TgXp793uA= X-Received: by 10.25.81.85 with SMTP id f82mr1645902lfb.70.1504913737128; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 16:35:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.81.18 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 16:35:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170908074135.GA76671@blogreen.org> References: <17078253.u2dgjZK1Z6@dragon.local> <1557586.GGzvBQ0jK6@dragon.local> <2223962.JDsoWRiPl4@dragon.local> <20170908074135.GA76671@blogreen.org> From: Russell Haley Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 16:35:36 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Update on porting mono 5 To: Russell Haley , Freebsd-mono Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-mono@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Mono and C# applications on FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:35:40 -0000 On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 12:41 AM, Romain Tarti=C3=A8re = wrote: > On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 05:36:17PM -0700, Russell Haley wrote: >> A subtle but important distinction. Also, are all items available in >> pkg built from source? If yes, does that mean pkg is a source or >> binary download? (kaboom! My head explodes). > > Unfortunately, some packages are not build from source. > > Let's recap, FreeBSD has a ports tree and also packages: > > - When installing through the ports tree, you build the software from > source. Any missing build or run dependency is also build from > source. The "ports tree" is basically a set of rules to build each > piece of software, and is made available by the FreeBSD project on > the internet; > - When you install using packages, you install binaries. Only missing > run-time dependencies are installed using packages (no > build-dependencies since you build nothing, so you end-up with less > software installed). The packages you install have been build using > the ports tree (with ports-mgmt/poudriere for example) on some > machine of the FreeBSD project, and made available to the wild. > > So, when using pkg(8), you only handle binary packages, never source > code. But the opposite is not true: the ports tree attempts to cope with > redistribution restrictions [1], so some ports will just download and > install binary blobs (e.g. proprietary drivers). > > By extension, some ports decided to trim-down build dependencies by > simply downloading a binary (it works well for things like Java and .Net > because they are not native binaries). To check this, have a look at > the many Java project (e.g. net/activemq downloads a tarball containing > 107 .jar files and has NO_BUILD set, so the port just put the files at > the right place, but does nothing more). > > Even some upstream projects trend to do so, for example, when compiling > monodevelop from upstream's source, the build procedure use nugets to > download dependencies as binary blobs. I understand that it eases-up > the life of the project's developers, but is not in-line with the > philosophy of the ports tree. Ports are supposed to build from source, > quoting the porter handbook [2]: =C2=AB Always use mainstream sources whe= n > and where possible =C2=BB. > > Russell, do these details help preventing your head from exploding? Thanks for that Romain! I suppose I was more being philosophical then literal (and a little silly). If the pkg repository server where the package was built is using the exact same sources, OS version and dependencies as I would use from Ports, IS it a binary? Your (perfect) response clearly shows the answer is yes, but I was trying to have some fun with that idea. Cheers! Russ > References: > 1. https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/bo= ok.html#porting-restrictions > 2. https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/bo= ok.html#slow-sources > > -- > Romain Tarti=C3=A8re http://people.FreeBSD.org/~rom= ain/ > pgp: 8234 9A78 E7C0 B807 0B59 80FF BA4D 1D95 5112 336F (ID: 0x5112336F) > (plain text =3Dnon-HTML=3D PGP/GPG encrypted/signed e-mail much appreciat= ed)