From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 18:38:43 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2974CE94BF6 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B817BC3E for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0C838E94BF5; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:43 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1EDE94BF4 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE0927BC3D for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBAIcg2k017201 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:42 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 217199] multimedia/ffmpeg: build error Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:43 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: riggs@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Status: Closed X-Bugzilla-Resolution: Feedback Timeout X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: maintainer-feedback+ X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: bug_status resolution Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:38:43 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D217199 Thomas Zander changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|New |Closed Resolution|--- |Feedback Timeout --- Comment #3 from Thomas Zander --- Please feel free reopen if this turns out to be a problem still. --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Mon Dec 11 05:29:05 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50FF6E86CB6 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:29:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EED87295C for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:29:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBB5T3XG060670 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:29:05 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 219350] [snd_hda] ALC256: no sound out off headphones jack Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:29:03 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Base System X-Bugzilla-Component: kern X-Bugzilla-Version: CURRENT X-Bugzilla-Keywords: X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Only Me X-Bugzilla-Who: ish@amail.plala.or.jp X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: cc attachments.created Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 05:29:05 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D219350 Masachika ISHIZUKA changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |ish@amail.plala.or.jp --- Comment #8 from Masachika ISHIZUKA --- Created attachment 188702 --> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=3D188702&action= =3Dedit ALC256 patch I bought DELL vostro 3568 last week. I added 'hint.hdaa.0.nid33.config=3D"as=3D2 seq=3D15 device=3DHeadphones c= onn=3DJack ctype=3D1/8 loc=3DFront color=3DBlack misc=3D0"' to /boot/device.hints and = patched hdaa_patches.c with reference to linux. Now, I can use headphone. --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Mon Dec 11 11:07:57 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D5EE8E5DA for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from portscout@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2BB80A17 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from portscout@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id CD43CE8E5D9; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC121E8E5D8 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from portscout@FreeBSD.org) Received: from portscout.ysv.freebsd.org (portscout.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDDE080A16 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from portscout@FreeBSD.org) Received: from portscout.ysv.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.123]) by portscout.ysv.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBBB7v7G021595 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 GMT (envelope-from portscout@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from portscout@localhost) by portscout.ysv.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vBBB7vEn021594; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 GMT (envelope-from portscout@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <201712111107.vBBB7vEn021594@portscout.ysv.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: portscout.ysv.freebsd.org: portscout set sender to portscout@FreeBSD.org using -f Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 +0000 From: portscout@FreeBSD.org To: multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD ports you maintain which are out of date X-Mailer: portscout/0.8.1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:58 -0000 Dear port maintainer, The portscout new distfile checker has detected that one or more of your ports appears to be out of date. Please take the opportunity to check each of the ports listed below, and if possible and appropriate, submit/commit an update. If any ports have already been updated, you can safely ignore the entry. You will not be e-mailed again for any of the port/version combinations below. Full details can be found at the following URL: http://portscout.freebsd.org/multimedia@freebsd.org.html Port | Current version | New version ------------------------------------------------+-----------------+------------ multimedia/ffmpeg | 3.4 | 3.4.1 ------------------------------------------------+-----------------+------------ If any of the above results are invalid, please check the following page for details on how to improve portscout's detection and selection of distfiles on a per-port basis: http://portscout.freebsd.org/info/portscout-portconfig.txt Thanks. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Mon Dec 11 17:37:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCD18E987A7 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6A66FDFF for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id C4C7DE987A5; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:37:19 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4793E987A2 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A55636FDFE; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:37:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id BA17B17888; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:37:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: portscout@FreeBSD.org Cc: multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD ports you maintain which are out of date References: <201712111107.vBBB7vEn021594@portscout.ysv.freebsd.org> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:37:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: <201712111107.vBBB7vEn021594@portscout.ysv.freebsd.org> (portscout@freebsd.org's message of "Mon, 11 Dec 2017 11:07:57 +0000") Message-ID: <4lox-w4hl-wny@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 17:37:20 -0000 portscout@FreeBSD.org writes: > Dear port maintainer, > > The portscout new distfile checker has detected that one or more of your > ports appears to be out of date. Please take the opportunity to check > each of the ports listed below, and if possible and appropriate, > submit/commit an update. If any ports have already been updated, you can > safely ignore the entry. > > You will not be e-mailed again for any of the port/version combinations > below. > > Full details can be found at the following URL: > http://portscout.freebsd.org/multimedia@freebsd.org.html > > > Port | Current version | New version > ------------------------------------------------+-----------------+------------ > multimedia/ffmpeg | 3.4 | 3.4.1 > ------------------------------------------------+-----------------+------------ I'll update it since the next bulk build is tonigt at 01:00 UTC. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Mon Dec 11 22:03:37 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49CBEA0243 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:03:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21457B96F for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:03:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id BE47AEA0242; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:03:37 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF7FEA0241 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:03:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F6A47B96E; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:03:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id CB91E1CD01; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:03:36 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: Naram Qashat Cc: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Trouble building ffmpeg-3.4_3,1 in poudriere References: Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:03:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Naram Qashat's message of "Sun, 03 Dec 2017 07:47:36 -0500") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 22:03:37 -0000 Naram Qashat writes: > Hello all, > > I'm not exactly sure when I started running into this problem, but > recently when I try to build ffmpeg in poudriere, it fails in > packaging saying that the shared libraries are not found. For example, > instead of getting > > libavcodec.so.57 > > I am getting > > libavcodec.so. Can you try the following? 57 is derived from _VERSION_MAJOR. $ cd /usr/ports/multimedia/ffmpeg $ make clean patch BATCH= $ cd `make -V WRKSRC` $ sh ffbuild/libversion.sh avcodec libavcodec/version.h libavcodec_VERSION=57.107.100 libavcodec_VERSION_MAJOR=57 libavcodec_VERSION_MINOR=107 > Here is my poudriere log: > http://kirby.cyberbotx.com/poudriere_logs/ffmpeg-3.4_3,1.log [...] > (00:02:32) ./ffbuild/libversion.sh avcodec libavcodec/version.h > libavcodec/libavcodec.version > (00:02:32) /bin/sh: ./ffbuild/libversion.sh: not found Check which line causes "not found" e.g., by inserting "set -x" at the start of the script. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Mon Dec 11 23:33:54 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D7AEA297F for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:33:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberbotx@cyberbotx.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688AB7F55B for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:33:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberbotx@cyberbotx.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 64F15EA297E; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:33:54 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649A3EA297D for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:33:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberbotx@cyberbotx.com) Received: from smtp.knology.net (smtp.knology.net [64.8.71.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F2607F559 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:33:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberbotx@cyberbotx.com) X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=PrzRVEE3 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=NJjEWrS4q/4dTPYtqmtAqw==:117 a=NJjEWrS4q/4dTPYtqmtAqw==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=oXJhIhYT-vsA:10 a=ocR9PWop10UA:10 a=qIHxdxLbUQEA:10 a=5llk0ql7AAAA:8 a=TyG3kTsx1EkjerBtKAQA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=0xAukbPN8TYWBNnwxRwN:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: Y3liZXJib3R4QHdvd3dheS5jb20= X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: X-CM-Score: X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Authentication-Results: smtp01.wow.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=cyberbotx@wowway.com; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [50.4.251.65] ([50.4.251.65:18056] helo=www.cyberbotx.com) by smtp.mail.wowway.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.1.42806 r(Platform:3.6.1.1)) with ESMTPA id EC/E8-07332-B111F2A5; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:13:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 18:13:31 -0500 From: Naram Qashat To: Jan Beich Cc: multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Trouble building ffmpeg-3.4_3,1 in poudriere In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <217ae2eae7e286f2659c8bd3e5ca14ae@cyberbotx.com> X-Sender: cyberbotx@cyberbotx.com User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 23:33:54 -0000 On 2017-12-11 17:03, Jan Beich wrote: > Naram Qashat writes: > >> Hello all, >> >> I'm not exactly sure when I started running into this problem, but >> recently when I try to build ffmpeg in poudriere, it fails in >> packaging saying that the shared libraries are not found. For example, >> instead of getting >> >> libavcodec.so.57 >> >> I am getting >> >> libavcodec.so. > > Can you try the following? 57 is derived from _VERSION_MAJOR. > > $ cd /usr/ports/multimedia/ffmpeg > $ make clean patch BATCH= > $ cd `make -V WRKSRC` > $ sh ffbuild/libversion.sh avcodec libavcodec/version.h > libavcodec_VERSION=57.107.100 > libavcodec_VERSION_MAJOR=57 > libavcodec_VERSION_MINOR=107 Running that command does bring up the proper output, so considering the next part of the reply... >> Here is my poudriere log: >> http://kirby.cyberbotx.com/poudriere_logs/ffmpeg-3.4_3,1.log > [...] >> (00:02:32) ./ffbuild/libversion.sh avcodec libavcodec/version.h > >> libavcodec/libavcodec.version >> (00:02:32) /bin/sh: ./ffbuild/libversion.sh: not found > > Check which line causes "not found" e.g., by inserting "set -x" at the > start of the script. I didn't insert the set -x, but I think this might be a different problem with the environment of my system, one that I cannot reproduce in a VM. I can't seem to run shell scripts that lack the shebang at the start of them. I had the same problem with graphics/graphviz and currently use a local patch to get around that one. I'm not exactly sure what would cause my system to not want to run those scripts without the shebang. My shell on my host side is csh, but I have the same problem even if I am in the sh shell instead. Thanks, Naram Qashat From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Tue Dec 12 01:57:58 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED41DE859CB for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE44064080 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id CDB75E859C8; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD63EE859C7 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA8946407B for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBC1vw32079929 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: maintainer-feedback requested: [Bug 224260] [patch] audio/grip Update to 3.6.2 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Type: request X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Only Me X-Bugzilla-Who: X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: maintainer-feedback? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:59 -0000 rkoberman@gmail.com has reassigned Bugzilla Automation 's request for maintainer-feedback to multimedia@FreeBSD.org: Bug 224260: [patch] audio/grip Update to 3.6.2 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D224260 --- Description --- Created attachment 188737 --> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=3D188737&action= =3Dedit Patch to update audio/grip to 3.6.2 Update to version 3.6.2 which has minor updates and fixes From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Tue Dec 12 01:57:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A11E859CE for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB23B64082 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id E917AE859CA; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A48E859C9 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C33B56407C for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBC1vw34079929 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 224260] [patch] audio/grip Update to 3.6.2 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:58 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: new X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Only Me X-Bugzilla-Who: rkoberman@gmail.com X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: maintainer-feedback? X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: bug_id short_desc product version rep_platform op_sys bug_status keywords bug_severity priority component assigned_to reporter flagtypes.name attachments.created Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:57:59 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D224260 Bug ID: 224260 Summary: [patch] audio/grip Update to 3.6.2 Product: Ports & Packages Version: Latest Hardware: Any OS: Any Status: New Keywords: patch Severity: Affects Only Me Priority: --- Component: Individual Port(s) Assignee: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Reporter: rkoberman@gmail.com Assignee: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Keywords: patch Flags: maintainer-feedback?(multimedia@FreeBSD.org) Created attachment 188737 --> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=3D188737&action= =3Dedit Patch to update audio/grip to 3.6.2 Update to version 3.6.2 which has minor updates and fixes --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Tue Dec 12 09:08:11 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607DAE92532 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:08:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E45F73343 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:08:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBC98Bw6052579 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:08:11 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 219350] [snd_hda] ALC256: no sound out off headphones jack Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:08:11 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Base System X-Bugzilla-Component: kern X-Bugzilla-Version: CURRENT X-Bugzilla-Keywords: X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Only Me X-Bugzilla-Who: nbe@renzel.net X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: freebsd-multimedia@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 09:08:11 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D219350 --- Comment #9 from Nils Beyer --- (In reply to Masachika ISHIZUKA from comment #8) confirmed - with your patch applied sound is finally working out off the headphones jack. Thank you very much... --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 13:23:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609A5E9DDA8; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:23:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onno.k@gmx.com) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE14D705AA; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:23:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onno.k@gmx.com) Received: from [37.48.82.100] ([37.48.82.100]) by 3c-app-mailcom-bs16.server.lan (via HTTP); Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:23:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: "Onno K." To: Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:23:10 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:3xQRxyJRVP8GKUOQeIV/w7Fw9wgVQCrLQMQRdzvfl7l oaLs/VeL0L6aa+cQXhMWO0YTJeQljIIPIpp4j1Urqy/jyAGVoJ v9qHy0p8QCHMz5qpQ4Vqlv5t8KYKWeK0v/NQ5aW+lo/UKs3xNV zUwFRyUqoWOsApoYEGpuHZfwoCcey8Oxi+JsWRpPOPeDRGgZsy M0d2ccFX/EpLMgN6UWiTS/KMvuU1W83W/w0dRspjLdV43i8ZUU XcQelx4tIigQ10DH3RqP2eTByW55X/0bv2iVugjfblvroLPR6G rWPcYo= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:mE6ibS4/hRU=:VkPG683zPVP6sEDxTPARRr 1G2aMVqoMlw8W4c+lItqiE7yhRXTUWtIo5KqaCNhbdxU+EHMQXR3xR1uJV7Y4hYh9rrTZ1Vsf VRATQfxXrAAPtXagdHeCCqyzoIMVelLeMyoTI1nWFz+Hh9iqfHDLVS9fJz9SPIqoJzHT+YgNQ WIowbYKHkW1wPcSlFY/BzcLMplzOWFUhQZXbXv0w2zrISj4kjGhrWGEXqtl2uj7Ok26vmxNE3 R7/dLoAMmJo4Gww/8AcrSnT72X4Bq8GGyS+ZtYeDx2Vcx9YMtgmRpjey8gGGk+9i7UCJfg6g7 P+SLaXkwMgNYuLpzhSoIKsQWSxssEhq5ROY5ivY5KY9mTLLHsDjq6BFbKnPAxY0I0ZDH35nbF aGIwBe9pplObo5BxGupQgRLXpBg16ZlDBd02UTj2daIHFW/UqtYhXuev1gWUZo6OzL5bHYZzZ Xzl/ApIf9ppmxjIDvmxncNyZ65txMwxfn0IdOsv5LwzFYEQNiDZc X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:23:17 -0000 Dear list, I have got my Raspberry Pi 3 (ARM64) working with FreeBSD 12-CURRENT - cool stuff! Though I believe this to be unrelated to the RPi, I cannot figure out how to capture audio with it. The RPi only has audio output and no input, so I am using a simple USB-dongle audio device that has both input and output. It is recognised as following by FreeBSD 12-CURRENT Nov 30 2017 snapshot: .. uaudio0 on uhub1 uaudio0: on usbus0 uaudio0: Play: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Play: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record: 48000 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record: 44100 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: No MIDI sequencer. pcm0: on uaudio0 uaudio0: HID volume keys found. .. Looks good to me! Additionally, /dev/sndstat reveals: Installed devices: pcm0: (play/rec) default No devices installed from userspace. A more verbose /dev/sndstat reads: # sysctl hw.snd.verbose=2 hw.snd.verbose: 0 -> 2 # cat /dev/sndstat FreeBSD Audio Driver (64bit 2009061500/aarch64) Installed devices: pcm0: at ? kld snd_uaudio (1p:1v/1r:1v) default snddev flags=0x2e6 [pcm0:play:dsp0.p0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010, flags 0x00002100, 0x00000004 interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0 [b:3072/1536/2|bs:4096/2048/2] channel flags=0x2100 {userland} -> feeder_mixer(0x00200010) -> {hardware} pcm0:play:dsp0.p0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp0]: spd 8000, fmt 0x00100008, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000000 interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0 [b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0] channel flags=0x10000000 {userland} -> feeder_root(0x00000000) -> {hardware} [pcm0:record:dsp0.r0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010/0x00100010, flags 0x00002100, 0x00000045 interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 1536, sfree 4096 [b:1536/768/2|bs:4096/2048/2] channel flags=0x2100 {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00100010) -> feeder_matrix(1.0 -> 2.0) -> feeder_mixer(0x00200010) -> {userland} pcm0:record:dsp0.r0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vr0]: spd 8000, fmt 0x00100008, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000000 interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 0, sfree 0 [b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0] channel flags=0x10000000 {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00000000) -> {userland} No devices installed from userspace. On Linux platform, I had success with capturing audio using the same hardware using the 'aplay' and 'arecord' tools from the ALSA library. So the hardware works, on Linux, but not on FreeBSD. It appears not to detect the sound card: # aplay -l aplay: device_list:273: no soundcards found... # arecord -l arecord: device_list:273: no soundcards found... So at first glance, ALSA does not work (out of the box, after installing pkg) with FreeBSD. But 'alsamixer' does appear to work, since the volume buttons on the USB dongle would affect the sound level in alsamixer. Now my questions: -> Does ALSA even work in FreeBSD or is any configuration required to get it to work? -> How can one capture audio on FreeBSD? -> Any hints in general on how to proceed? Addendum: -> The handbook was not very useful to me. Nothing about capturing audio mentioned: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/sound-setup.html. -> I did read something about being able to use 'dd' to directly capture audio to a file. Any examples on such a command would be appreciated, as my simple 'dd if=/dev/dsp of=test.wav' did not work properly for me. Thanks for any help! From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 13:33:09 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F97FE9E373; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:33:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x234.google.com (mail-it0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5565F70AF6; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:33:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x234.google.com with SMTP id f143so3643752itb.0; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:33:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=38Fke/EiYT6rieSgkGtFfkaVhV47rYIoC0fX8Nmt7EI=; b=u17Ry+XfZA+OVj8N9Enqfd+1d5F31uxTC/M4mlsbYr2gRZgVMLl2OKUA8hDB345b8o EH3QKBzfPSVMSZGh0KLzveyw6twMYxTXDeg04YheXGtI11MGgdoFvCtcENQKuVjbebHR jx5GA2/XVXda62doST1NdmsHwMTrmMnoLYUG+Omo9Ve1HrknYFopB9WGjznZ40H4xQ42 vm7aaWbzYQHUukqMJp0TSS7IFCpJpIzA8oTBXH4yaE4cXZpYfz1RsLm1DskEed3HKyuT ee9S4wYAW1NuDgC3mAa5AeGB4GuFPeS6VDSDNsLyLSXLxFlg/FTS4pvguZduG+W2s9cB Ffgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=38Fke/EiYT6rieSgkGtFfkaVhV47rYIoC0fX8Nmt7EI=; b=DOKpbhpdvMaYlWi4ru5/cwxPch5+t4WYeS6JfRkXFEVgnG8sqm7Wx5Wnm/LwV8Vnj2 rx1DWjN9vnLsD5Fkw6TnsjhyZD9rcAxm6VIfBQtr81RTOW0JkxlWqKUgU0yZ7JxKbce6 gUXxnzl0vAH3D4Xgk6fvl7tgtz4lISxpVgaLCWu8VUJW8ZeFc/XNUkH4469mL1rx6LWN CCaKmcKa+13Uex91ibyLE1vlZ2jL/7bVsN9Or0w4zKLbZR3oBQ2EkvGxE2pvQNVvXDO/ Ox9bT7xNzdyEPu/5XuAOBTh1Tl+j+WOUyNyTa73cFYI+Y1YEfshprD7GgdSc05WCUhic wmUA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKYAbZnKCX3nqLHoGeBquOet5jnvIm518gBjWAsFX+wep2Dg+74 rqR5D6mK5WjdzC5kZ2jk6KmTKUAPpRyRuN2cpr2lsQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovA3VTqACAtEYy2ue1BZQB4nFbhyVElcWitAPVOs5cZKTwXaq5NFsVmzhj1sZ1DybVjOxVSJoLK1d60i0dQtWw= X-Received: by 10.36.151.198 with SMTP id k189mr3055567ite.100.1513171988521; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:33:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.11.31 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:33:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: blubee blubeeme Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:33:07 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? To: "Onno K." Cc: Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:33:09 -0000 On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Onno K. wrote: > Dear list, > > I have got my Raspberry Pi 3 (ARM64) working with FreeBSD 12-CURRENT - > cool stuff! > > Though I believe this to be unrelated to the RPi, I cannot figure out how > to capture audio with it. The RPi only has audio output and no input, so I > am using a simple USB-dongle audio device that has both input and output. > It is recognised as following by FreeBSD 12-CURRENT Nov 30 2017 snapshot: > > > .. > uaudio0 on uhub1 > uaudio0: 1.10/1.00, addr 4> on usbus0 > uaudio0: Play: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. > uaudio0: Play: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. > uaudio0: Record: 48000 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. > uaudio0: Record: 44100 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. > uaudio0: No MIDI sequencer. > pcm0: on uaudio0 > uaudio0: HID volume keys found. > .. > > > Looks good to me! Additionally, /dev/sndstat reveals: > > > Installed devices: > pcm0: (play/rec) default > No devices installed from userspace. > > > A more verbose /dev/sndstat reads: > > > # sysctl hw.snd.verbose=2 > hw.snd.verbose: 0 -> 2 > # cat /dev/sndstat > FreeBSD Audio Driver (64bit 2009061500/aarch64) > Installed devices: > pcm0: at ? kld snd_uaudio (1p:1v/1r:1v) default > snddev flags=0x2e6 REGISTERED,VPC> > [pcm0:play:dsp0.p0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010, flags 0x00002100, > 0x00000004 > interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0 > [b:3072/1536/2|bs:4096/2048/2] > channel flags=0x2100 > {userland} -> feeder_mixer(0x00200010) -> {hardware} > pcm0:play:dsp0.p0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp0]: spd 8000, fmt > 0x00100008, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000000 > interrupts 0, underruns 0, feed 0, ready 0 [b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0] > channel flags=0x10000000 > {userland} -> feeder_root(0x00000000) -> {hardware} > [pcm0:record:dsp0.r0]: spd 48000, fmt 0x00200010/0x00100010, flags > 0x00002100, 0x00000045 > interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 1536, sfree 4096 > [b:1536/768/2|bs:4096/2048/2] > channel flags=0x2100 > {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00100010) -> feeder_matrix(1.0 -> 2.0) > -> feeder_mixer(0x00200010) -> {userland} > pcm0:record:dsp0.r0[pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vr0]: spd 8000, fmt > 0x00100008, flags 0x10000000, 0x00000000 > interrupts 0, overruns 0, feed 0, hfree 0, sfree 0 > [b:0/0/0|bs:0/0/0] > channel flags=0x10000000 > {hardware} -> feeder_root(0x00000000) -> {userland} > No devices installed from userspace. > > > On Linux platform, I had success with capturing audio using the same > hardware using the 'aplay' and 'arecord' tools from the ALSA library. So > the hardware works, on Linux, but not on FreeBSD. It appears not to detect > the sound card: > > > # aplay -l > aplay: device_list:273: no soundcards found... > # arecord -l > arecord: device_list:273: no soundcards found... > > > So at first glance, ALSA does not work (out of the box, after installing > pkg) with FreeBSD. But 'alsamixer' does appear to work, since the volume > buttons on the USB dongle would affect the sound level in alsamixer. > > Now my questions: > -> Does ALSA even work in FreeBSD or is any configuration required to get > it to work? > -> How can one capture audio on FreeBSD? > -> Any hints in general on how to proceed? > > Addendum: > -> The handbook was not very useful to me. Nothing about capturing audio > mentioned: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/sound-setup.html. > -> I did read something about being able to use 'dd' to directly capture > audio to a file. Any examples on such a command would be appreciated, as my > simple 'dd if=/dev/dsp of=test.wav' did not work properly for me. > > Thanks for any help! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-multimedia > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-multimedia- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Try this, install audio/oss from ports then use ossrecord app to record from the detected audio recording device. on my device running ossinfo returns this: ossinfo Version info: FreeBSD native OSS ABI 1200054 (0x00040000) BSD Platform: FreeBSD/amd64 12.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT #0 r326056: Tue Nov 21 14:54:55 UTC 2017 root@releng3.nyi.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/GENERIC (blubee) Number of audio devices: 10 Number of audio engines: 10 Number of MIDI devices: 0 Number of mixer devices: 3 Device objects 0: pcm0 Realtek ALC899 (Analog) on hdaa0 1: pcm1 Realtek ALC899 (Rear Analog Line-out) on hdaa0 2: pcm2 Realtek ALC899 (Rear Digital) on hdaa0 MIDI devices (/dev/midi*) Mixer devices 0: pcm0:mixer (Mixer 0 of device object 0) 1: pcm1:mixer (Mixer 0 of device object 1) 2: pcm2:mixer (Mixer 0 of device object 2) Audio devices pcm0:play:dsp0.p0 /dev/dsp0.p0 (device index 0) pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp0 /dev/dsp0.vp0 (device index 1) pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp1 /dev/dsp0.vp1 (device index 2) pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vp2 /dev/dsp0.vp2 (device index 3) pcm0:record:dsp0.r0 /dev/dsp0.r0 (device index 4) pcm0:virtual:dsp0.vr0 /dev/dsp0.vr0 (device index 5) pcm1:play:dsp1.p0 /dev/dsp1.p0 (device index 6) pcm1:virtual:dsp1.vp0 /dev/dsp1.vp0 (device index 7) pcm2:play:dsp2.p0 /dev/dsp2.p0 (device index 8) pcm2:virtual:dsp2.vp0 /dev/dsp2.vp0 (device index 9) give that a shot and report back. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 13:50:30 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CC2E9EA7B; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:50:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Received: from mail.bsd4all.net (mail.bsd4all.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:217b::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.bsd4all.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 790B4713D2; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:50:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Received: by mail.bsd4all.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3yxdPB74SyzS6N; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:50:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:50:22 +0100 From: "Herbert J. Skuhra" To: blubee blubeeme Cc: "Onno K." , Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20171213135022.GA97930@mail.bsd4all.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:50:30 -0000 On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 09:33:07PM +0800, blubee blubeeme wrote: > Try this, install audio/oss from ports This port is ONLY_FOR_ARCHS= amd64 i386 -- Herbert From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 13:52:32 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0557E9ED1F; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:52:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x229.google.com (mail-io0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 659F5717B5; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:52:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x229.google.com with SMTP id r13so2878029iod.2; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:52:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XnMEVFe5aMmLBDEhYZ99wm2p2e13xKPXRBXvwrQVO+8=; b=X53gRZXksIdwJApuUwQjRJQb+sWVTCAs3uHah929Ib6pJwDJT7TJShWXA+pkj9FVQ6 PoqQaaf2Nor9jK8rJc76ksohCdL7diuHv/T3e0nUyXQOLj0aIxVsD/7aNiyWPrU4b3Qs f5/8DRVrCGFkZ1p5bj//dH4y4EQjHf8HiAAAUmshMNI1TTMnkKugVAQABr7yVQ3nPNBU NhEC8mFZQ1xfD71XPCOjS1a7wMm5LSkW4XRTokz5c/8X2/r4XiZEnZjhW5zgGkYEOPUD +KmdjxxzyRbwD+6F+gjM5wZCIy7UhVVZ5r//CMsIkHssu3LSGdANdCIiaH0gfaav9NJ1 Mf8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XnMEVFe5aMmLBDEhYZ99wm2p2e13xKPXRBXvwrQVO+8=; b=qVWOCqnn0rtBkMaY+G0ey1fLw+KhjuMH/IRvJfr/FQqDfmAdgPgt4+yFdMLq9yKLGz CqogK/1V5dy2Dmatp/8Qo1VlBf1bjEP7LZF1xEYfBTSfhkBe7kPC1zD2JHiIwiKOoBSQ lCvuGO71dI6q0VzvQ3w0zEJJFGodeq5WF5B+VV1vJ8dSNaXaj0Wpn7Y63UNDG5hiVmH5 Q0jnK2PHCIclTtWpfYblj0jtx03LSNo6j0k8lAGujI/XIOG9AwSlgJ+13nVqascLHi1P MR16GbItpK9x29Zw7qJVi6X8DgaTy+i4ujQhCOSbvLavCxt6w08VEBWFSpy7uHMkHC9m JYgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLlDaK7U3+nD9T4MAWuocs6zbtZjNrZVMhdf4uPMYxlnsOK7MaY 95hsTilGJob4AXHIwSJJZj/o2h1oxTzTzH/zMOE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotqx7z0qOBjyLWdBSAGkpMXVyJJPx7unZipEbyyu97w9tOrhuDpqoRX65+Ln/RagZDQEZ872MOwTOFh4yh/gVc= X-Received: by 10.107.162.131 with SMTP id l125mr3214408ioe.153.1513173151703; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:52:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.11.31 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:52:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171213135022.GA97930@mail.bsd4all.net> References: <20171213135022.GA97930@mail.bsd4all.net> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:52:31 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? To: "Herbert J. Skuhra" Cc: "Onno K." , Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:52:32 -0000 On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Herbert J. Skuhra wrote: > On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 09:33:07PM +0800, blubee blubeeme wrote: > > > Try this, install audio/oss from ports > > This port is ONLY_FOR_ARCHS= amd64 i386 > > -- > Herbert > @Herbert Thanks for the heads up. @Onno I am not sure, maybe others can be more assistance. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 13:54:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 125E8E9EEE1; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22c.google.com (mail-io0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90EB2719C3; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id r13so2884199iod.2; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:54:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CNQA7ENhZSjk+Xj5z2ehhtn/mfaz9pwe5erDhsUw4Ls=; b=PHnd0KDc2HTiL9AzwCj+F/PlGue3ztx0VJacGieMFPMk7GbH7MRTSQhVQc/PJ/+Nx7 fTMwZEL/z14OIBn34arfM40MwwnVq93H4ERfuRCRyhQ+srzx0rQGWZOaAXWmZFd40Ltf UbUU/562Gb8WtWS6kBL3LndWkaKipfgSakbECQm8RdxcZU73Pkp3OI2wO4hN9o+fauKY LFhTs88uL7IILFZ2ve0K3P2Lf7QsDHS2u7gchf36P6kcToV6DOzPKfxoOWHkIJBi1jJo Jm8LIm5N0X85zpruXuhCDD3oqEGoF0g0BjGr5aJHZS9jfcuyQk82c+WzLjXtI2lk6UrT v9AA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CNQA7ENhZSjk+Xj5z2ehhtn/mfaz9pwe5erDhsUw4Ls=; b=YV2GoTQw4GpYXaohPEpyDAGJDu3vJmKOU2dB3gqKgw+a+IroN+2X6hvFF17fGdt/YS fqvuSsAD4v1nHhHOvGpHU3xwH8xjqjan9q3S0P/p9ScY08KCvHR4b6SQxjE4P5kaNpT7 mjxKJpvIswxN++aWXHkWr7em77K3ANqaDiZ/fUYblxQoTV1WtXLS8FV3mnw1rWxWzFtW 0lSzipmHBr+Xf121ehYRI5lXcvHd5vLH5hIFMwd1dVk/cHP6U3Z3v9hMIbLPgKwRAASP AL8w3K+0M81kJ3owZYc2X6QpKzdJq7+mt1gEI2H91cUiVL1SYroZr7eOcI+X0f5eAnAt TBeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ2N5adxw2VS5z8ibJz3rabTrxkgU9jrTbDx9g8x9/NdjhwyzlH rco/tXjbf5rah8ZQOaxRDuR9ELu8vp1BcyxAG2Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosYKel48aK3+sArEsOdNB2QFKv0EIzK0GtNVhtR5S/joZWJzX9gR/BixHsO5qqojNbFZXYzq2FJ5vJD+pALFV0= X-Received: by 10.107.85.5 with SMTP id j5mr2916078iob.296.1513173265883; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:54:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.11.31 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 05:54:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20171213135022.GA97930@mail.bsd4all.net> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:54:25 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? To: "Herbert J. Skuhra" Cc: "Onno K." , Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:27 -0000 On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:52 PM, blubee blubeeme wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Herbert J. Skuhra > wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 09:33:07PM +0800, blubee blubeeme wrote: >> >> > Try this, install audio/oss from ports >> >> This port is ONLY_FOR_ARCHS= amd64 i386 >> >> -- >> Herbert >> > @Herbert > > Thanks for the heads up. > > @Onno > I am not sure, maybe others can be more assistance. > This bring a question to mind, why wouldn't OSS work on ARM....? From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 13:57:00 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0E01E9F0F7; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:57:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) Received: from relay2.tomsk.ru (mail.sibptus.tomsk.ru [212.73.124.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB40271B88; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:56:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) X-Virus-Scanned: by clamd daemon 0.98.5_1 for FreeBSD at relay2.tomsk.ru Received: from [212.73.125.240] (HELO admin.sibptus.transneft.ru) by relay2.tomsk.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.16) with ESMTPS id 39890361; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:52:10 +0600 Received: from admin.sibptus.transneft.ru (sudakov@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by admin.sibptus.transneft.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBDDuvgv006732; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:56:57 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) Received: (from sudakov@localhost) by admin.sibptus.transneft.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vBDDuuvr006731; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:56:56 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) X-Authentication-Warning: admin.sibptus.transneft.ru: sudakov set sender to vas@mpeks.tomsk.su using -f Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:56:56 +0700 From: Victor Sudakov To: blubee blubeeme Cc: "Onno K." , Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20171213135656.GB6560@admin.sibptus.transneft.ru> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: AO "Svyaztransneft", SibPTUS X-PGP-Key: http://www.dreamwidth.org/pubkey?user=victor_sudakov X-PGP-Fingerprint: 10E3 1171 1273 E007 C2E9 3532 0DA4 F259 9B5E C634 User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:57:00 -0000 blubee blubeeme wrote: > > Try this, install audio/oss from ports > then use ossrecord app to record from the detected audio recording device. Since when is it not possible to record with "cat /dev/dsp > file.wav" like in old hardcore Unixes? -- Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN AS43859 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 14:05:06 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F49E9F54D; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:05:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onno.k@gmx.com) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C51CF720D7; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:05:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from onno.k@gmx.com) Received: from [37.48.82.99] ([37.48.82.99]) by 3c-app-mailcom-bs02.server.lan (via HTTP); Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:04:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: "Onno K." To: "Victor Sudakov" Cc: Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:04:56 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <20171213135656.GB6560@admin.sibptus.transneft.ru> References: <20171213135656.GB6560@admin.sibptus.transneft.ru> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:C1QtQ8hGErshR7gLanPNG4BZVlwH++ZT+He5oDqTNbH 1Hg9lFfJYLM2zeaUQl6XHXegsgaxhwpTABPmgfue7BflRYs0Rp Vg5Vs0FAqvr+hmKJfVZJkeYvIvD2hJj1gPFlllMpD/JriM917i 7NiaIWfaQSblVNGVcdr335CgzdVIacfz0ZOTkj6JYG3YsinP7a folcdfcJSinZGGHWP0oR5TxnhPzs9FFx1c9PqLGt2ZVT6XzL9D ZstU2d+KaaEubgK4V2eAdskcO9RBZnp0a4VVMdD8O0td9iOciq SlKNGw= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:I5iv8KAKKcA=:8/ZFovfuDvVuGZZa0o7GJ9 mWzqdEtCjQyFggi6JK8IjChVN/TmcNIFOTBz6y2qO9QfWrVpMCHNkyENfQcCEK10XpUuj6i0I RmCb9JOrrJtNUwcLY722VhVO0UFY8fxhLCTm682WQYdsSMAPj34Fd0IUpU8v4LuJ2G0+9fJl0 iWNkv/7Bxcb/LcwqIIDIrWkL5rTb8HCuroB8dW94eCwGYBut8W8IMyPm+mfkC75F6KarzHdMO 1k5hJRfkn25PCk6h++Ql9J0PmwYlzDeN+RszBwwz3woOF+YSbBZlfuF9W2GWKWR+jqN7gJa2+ tZgXIRE7QCl+UHBMZhGccWu6/SIkvAlT2CffNmLqtGtZ4jW1Uz5EHCCmNUPOpxZpz8uERkoyK KMjDB1ZT/C91oaAaz0KpmJyNHtscwYGqzJF//jcqKKI4P4B1sJbf7u3RN328ncwok8BFLQngs y3wT0Hh9I74INtlgP55VDXChqt+7vGUaMVmRWHv7jdagwp6UOpUI X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:05:06 -0000 > Since when is it not possible to record with > "cat /dev/dsp > file.wav" like in old hardcore Unixes? I have tried this, but the resulting file.wav is only 0 bytes after several seconds. So this does not appear to work either. Control-T reveals the process is stuck in 'pcmrdv' state. I am also curious how it works with multiple input devices; does BSD know what device to point to when accessing /dev/dsp? Thanks for everyone trying to help! - Onno From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 14:16:41 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA21FE9FB44; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) Received: from relay2.tomsk.ru (mail.sibptus.tomsk.ru [212.73.124.5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BDA7276D; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) X-Virus-Scanned: by clamd daemon 0.98.5_1 for FreeBSD at relay2.tomsk.ru Received: from [212.73.125.240] (HELO admin.sibptus.transneft.ru) by relay2.tomsk.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.16) with ESMTPS id 39890376; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:11:51 +0600 Received: from admin.sibptus.transneft.ru (sudakov@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by admin.sibptus.transneft.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBDEGZHf006929; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:16:37 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) Received: (from sudakov@localhost) by admin.sibptus.transneft.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vBDEGWt4006926; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:16:32 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from vas@mpeks.tomsk.su) X-Authentication-Warning: admin.sibptus.transneft.ru: sudakov set sender to vas@mpeks.tomsk.su using -f Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:16:32 +0700 From: Victor Sudakov To: "Onno K." Cc: Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20171213141631.GD6560@admin.sibptus.transneft.ru> References: <20171213135656.GB6560@admin.sibptus.transneft.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: AO "Svyaztransneft", SibPTUS X-PGP-Key: http://www.dreamwidth.org/pubkey?user=victor_sudakov X-PGP-Fingerprint: 10E3 1171 1273 E007 C2E9 3532 0DA4 F259 9B5E C634 User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:41 -0000 Onno K. wrote: > > Since when is it not possible to record with > > "cat /dev/dsp > file.wav" like in old hardcore Unixes? > > > I have tried this, but the resulting file.wav is only 0 bytes after > several seconds. So this does not appear to work either. Control-T > reveals the process is stuck in 'pcmrdv' state. So I wonder when it got broken. > > I am also curious how it works with multiple input devices; does BSD > know what device to point to when accessing /dev/dsp? > AFAIK /dev/dsp is the default device according to sysctl hw.snd.default_unit, but you can always use /dev/dsp0, /dev/dsp1 etc. -- Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN AS43859 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 14:17:43 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B84E9FC68; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:17:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3DF272896; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:17:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id E3BFB3D8D; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:17:42 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: "Onno K." Cc: Freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? References: Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:17:33 +0100 Message-ID: <374e-af0i-wny@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:17:43 -0000 "Onno K." writes: > # aplay -l > aplay: device_list:273: no soundcards found... > # arecord -l > arecord: device_list:273: no soundcards found... ALSA on FreeBSD doesn't support direct hardware access, it uses plugins such as OSS, Jack, PulseAudio. Try instead: $ pkg install ffmpeg $ ffmpeg -f oss -i /dev/dsp foo.wav $ ffmpeg -i foo.wav -f oss /dev/dsp From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 14:52:53 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC560EA0D27 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:52:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt0-x232.google.com (mail-qt0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7B2B73F41 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:52:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt0-x232.google.com with SMTP id g9so3952477qth.9 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:52:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=80V7kHnkQBfvz3ktwvcBrqDqhtIZkM5XP6fohgfe3kw=; b=Ry6nnwdotnmgj9fZGlpCabDhDSV/tl/bP2prZS5fUwV+z3nu5babngO65iKXgoAVUH sPY2kMjBPZ8rXNV0XqbxDkJ1l1ia+xCPeNQ/k2zcgdxgvPUgdxIxA6NFwG+ai/kPpfeE YWbtnwNq0HznZj+95IUrh0YCaraSB9SKUslTrXytqmbdOaOlZBCvbTVDqhcfMO1ghvqm k9UDCxwEhxg6N0XC/Z3Vx6z16mo7W8W+0B3o3dmGg4FZh+qa8wmICx6XF3Ces4HIE4fC tpK3uNN72WrOmpHhjptD1h1qSeQD7P0rB9NzztSRw1uhumbxeEjC7GXQBijOXy21mqXN xLKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=80V7kHnkQBfvz3ktwvcBrqDqhtIZkM5XP6fohgfe3kw=; b=uCg3G5LRDViDNQicD5CYUYkxoUnK44ng8XtnebUv+YjiUqHGce90+0DhjP/Pc2nnAi bC12nK991pdOsD1A2yvYs/zyShhmJBiQIdEFR1LnuhIG0GTjys0wq6cA+8oYVovb2/11 A7zwp7SHuW+r5gL3j3V6jIHmg7bRaojrFOmJ+S1aVt2hDss3GXYTR6cpBa3foWepdKbI mbWU9vAcUE9YmSpwS2a+HjmbWyc0KLc4V3CajKloefwYC6MqdHpN/B0owCaavPsM9+oL N24PmEX8W3zMUO6BQW0fKI2alwJrKHTqC5/llhy344Fm0JFbfCexClpxqetMXARrT3oF FXRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mK+ItcRT++JLcrXTFKyW+589/2ZPtczDJ948UOdAwPczDjUWpDg opvmN0bSF9hq7B3APMGkWMaCyNvFax9QTdl/UEpqtQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovJvn3UMu0B+TkcJOXblcFZbiCqbH4Ray6o+8RgFumRtF6gdH76625RvwdUsMEuCeS1O01ljnkOGelPW0FZG+Y= X-Received: by 10.200.47.12 with SMTP id j12mr11531346qta.204.1513176772449; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:52:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.31.197 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 06:52:51 -0800 (PST) From: blubee blubeeme Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 22:52:51 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:52:54 -0000 What sources do kernel modules pull in? I'm looking at the generic kernel config for am64: # Sound support device sound # Generic sound driver (required) device snd_cmi # CMedia CMI8338/CMI8738 device snd_csa # Crystal Semiconductor CS461x/428x device snd_emu10kx # Creative SoundBlaster Live! and Audigy device snd_es137x # Ensoniq AudioPCI ES137x device snd_hda # Intel High Definition Audio device snd_ich # Intel, NVidia and other ICH AC'97 Audio device snd_via8233 # VIA VT8233x Audio The device "sound" is required, does that mean if I totally uncomment out all the device including sound, then the machine won't boot? Does required mean a breaking kernel or just no sound? From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Wed Dec 13 15:10:03 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E06EA1173 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DA4374552 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00E732600DA; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:10:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org References: From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <9bcb71b8-43ec-c534-b03e-0f28261d12c1@selasky.org> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:07:13 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 15:10:03 -0000 On 12/13/17 15:52, blubee blubeeme wrote: > > The device "sound" is required, does that mean if I totally uncomment out > all the device including sound, then the machine won't boot? > > Does required mean a breaking kernel or just no sound? Hi, The kernel will not link in this case I guess. It will always boot :-) --HPS From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Thu Dec 14 06:03:12 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25FD0E97180 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:03:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from FreeBSD@shaneware.biz) Received: from ipmail03.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail03.adl2.internode.on.net [150.101.137.141]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB4DD755B1 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:03:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from FreeBSD@shaneware.biz) Received: from ppp121-45-66-21.bras1.adl6.internode.on.net (HELO leader.local) ([121.45.66.21]) by ipmail03.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 14 Dec 2017 16:28:01 +1030 Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org References: From: Shane Ambler Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:27:59 +1030 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-AU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:03:12 -0000 On 14/12/2017 01:22, blubee blubeeme wrote: > What sources do kernel modules pull in? > > I'm looking at the generic kernel config for am64: > > # Sound support > device sound # Generic sound driver (required) > device snd_cmi # CMedia CMI8338/CMI8738 > device snd_csa # Crystal Semiconductor CS461x/428x > device snd_emu10kx # Creative SoundBlaster Live! and Audigy > device snd_es137x # Ensoniq AudioPCI ES137x > device snd_hda # Intel High Definition Audio > device snd_ich # Intel, NVidia and other ICH AC'97 Audio > device snd_via8233 # VIA VT8233x Audio > > > The device "sound" is required, does that mean if I totally uncomment out > all the device including sound, then the machine won't boot? > > Does required mean a breaking kernel or just no sound? Required means any of the following snd_* devices require it to build. Commenting all devices you have listed results in a kernel that allows the module from audio/oss to be loaded. Having experimented with this a few days ago - while the sound and snd_* loadable modules are built, they are also permanently linked into the generic kernel which means we can't unload them after startup or prevent them loading in loader.conf, so to use the audio/oss kernel module a custom kernel needs to be built with these disabled. It is also possible to add WITHOUT_MODULES=sound snd_cmi snd_csa snd_emu10kx snd_es137x snd_hda snd_ich snd_via8233 to /etc/make.conf. Note that this leads to a generic kernel without sound that can be confusing later when you have forgotten. I would recommend using the custom kernel config with a descriptive name "ident NO_SOUND" so that later you know why sound stops working. I like to keep generic installed as kernel and give custom kernels different names - make buildkernel KERNCONF=NO_SOUND make installkernel KERNCONF=NO_SOUND KODIR=/boot/kernel.no_sound Add kernel="kernel.no_sound" to loader.conf to load it at boot. Add kernels="kernel,kernel.no_sound" to easily choose between them in the boot screen. I must admit to a lack of documentation regarding the install and use of audio/oss. While I didn't get far with config, I can contribute the above to installation. -- FreeBSD - the place to B...Software Developing Shane Ambler From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Thu Dec 14 07:20:49 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F686E99B6F for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 07:20:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x234.google.com (mail-it0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DEE678393 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 07:20:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x234.google.com with SMTP id d16so8864046itj.1 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 23:20:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cRM9/oCRyseC0QD/RCy6lxAQxfyfsZNLuDLU71TVPEQ=; b=ScxZ+Mb/EqsZyR57Tf7FQxYLHblxY/ovpwT83efNUpvl2fD5pOSQ5o1A9hDGDYqrDm yQN2EdG9sR/gisxsZbBuXkYqNY+rQ8XPYiATT7T/ZQfqJHXkD8ESzVD2oqgD5/tBebOL WB0bZPEaG6CLJ33pOcYercBwqB5iGbgEQg38NwJIeELTW3MOPwXqVnfb4qR3P734QHL1 H8quQv7oy6e+l4v3mwfGCton6C+5/W1SOvQSFo0DxqSqXVRjHfd6dJ/6tzh0YtwAZjl+ 7H29cEhbKnlgMH7NyfH9zwbnVzM1rKWdhXOVz6fdDem+zca4HvxagVJV2noWgBsAW4Y8 bQbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cRM9/oCRyseC0QD/RCy6lxAQxfyfsZNLuDLU71TVPEQ=; b=eHIEW40XEoxNQi8q/drOaHtLIZPnaGp2w/OmmfTOe8TK4sqH7rvcwmnPEWzHbiyF8x IatwNc8ZG4lKbHNDtbKt5upMxfNBfM4zIBVXC1KD8yuF07GXiQ4nFUggVQ7Ue5OnHyOQ 6brleIEr3g0TLIpyWbFWulB0Qw6c7bNAeN6wah9F3yokfvaQ/eOWD3MNSVH+ACBxyK9r KFu6hfxnGREmYcYvKMcO9KsDCYHHviMa2VPMZMdlpnjHWMCspsckkHzsIQkeYAG3ppq5 ABnavg6Shr53Z5ghFIudEELzO493S9Skdu0+rS2rW+ZKl0HTfykH0wb25SJqR4pDzYiL bTbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKRk5z26bJ98oFxX5KZ6e65Pt1TFcDzxaCZxIrYtokGZAIVggHE VDCDOrteozvMrEswqtgFI4pvy+2clqv4yDPts8qF1YDA X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBos5J4A8+uESHyHCMb9ZxH0PzzG4npCvrRao9Hm62s2jKMmsyencmCX7M6J/2lcurxBmSiV0J+iAx0N5nm6VUlY= X-Received: by 10.107.162.131 with SMTP id l125mr6789218ioe.153.1513236048436; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 23:20:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.11.31 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 23:20:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: blubee blubeeme Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:20:47 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Shane Ambler Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 07:20:49 -0000 On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Shane Ambler wrote: > On 14/12/2017 01:22, blubee blubeeme wrote: > > What sources do kernel modules pull in? > > > > I'm looking at the generic kernel config for am64: > > > > # Sound support > > device sound # Generic sound driver (required) > > device snd_cmi # CMedia CMI8338/CMI8738 > > device snd_csa # Crystal Semiconductor CS461x/428x > > device snd_emu10kx # Creative SoundBlaster Live! and Audigy > > device snd_es137x # Ensoniq AudioPCI ES137x > > device snd_hda # Intel High Definition Audio > > device snd_ich # Intel, NVidia and other ICH AC'97 Audio > > device snd_via8233 # VIA VT8233x Audio > > > > > > The device "sound" is required, does that mean if I totally uncomment out > > all the device including sound, then the machine won't boot? > > > > Does required mean a breaking kernel or just no sound? > > Required means any of the following snd_* devices require it to build. > > Commenting all devices you have listed results in a kernel that allows > the module from audio/oss to be loaded. > > Having experimented with this a few days ago - while the sound and snd_* > loadable modules are built, they are also permanently linked into the > generic kernel which means we can't unload them after startup or prevent > them loading in loader.conf, so to use the audio/oss kernel module a > custom kernel needs to be built with these disabled. > > It is also possible to add > WITHOUT_MODULES=sound snd_cmi snd_csa snd_emu10kx snd_es137x snd_hda > snd_ich snd_via8233 > to /etc/make.conf. > > Note that this leads to a generic kernel without sound that can be > confusing later when you have forgotten. I would recommend using the > custom kernel config with a descriptive name "ident NO_SOUND" so that > later you know why sound stops working. > > I like to keep generic installed as kernel and give custom kernels > different names - > > make buildkernel KERNCONF=NO_SOUND > make installkernel KERNCONF=NO_SOUND KODIR=/boot/kernel.no_sound > > Add kernel="kernel.no_sound" to loader.conf to load it at boot. > Add kernels="kernel,kernel.no_sound" to easily choose between them in > the boot screen. > > I must admit to a lack of documentation regarding the install and use of > audio/oss. While I didn't get far with config, I can contribute the > above to installation. > > -- > FreeBSD - the place to B...Software Developing > > Shane Ambler > > Hi Shane thanks for the tips, I just built a kernel with all of those sound drivers commented out. There was no problem, except for the total lack of sound, which is expected. My sound does make that default *beep* when I delete on an empty terminal though. My goal is to port OSS 4.2 to get rid of all the patches and legacy OSS stuff. OSS has ALSA emulation so I should be able to test /ports/audio packages to see what needs patching, updating etc... Once OSS 4.2 is in FreeBSD then I can work on adding OSS backends for Chromium and other software that I use. Chromium OSS feature request from 2009: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=19470 Would they still accept an OSS backend today? From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Thu Dec 14 08:38:39 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF33E9C7C6 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:38:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B25B7AB62 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:38:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B42D5260355; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:38:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme , Shane Ambler Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org References: From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:35:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:38:39 -0000 On 12/14/17 08:20, blubee blubeeme wrote: > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Shane Ambler wrote: > >> On 14/12/2017 01:22, blubee blubeeme wrote: >>> What sources do kernel modules pull in? >>> >>> I'm looking at the generic kernel config for am64: >>> >>> # Sound support >>> device sound # Generic sound driver (required) >>> device snd_cmi # CMedia CMI8338/CMI8738 >>> device snd_csa # Crystal Semiconductor CS461x/428x >>> device snd_emu10kx # Creative SoundBlaster Live! and Audigy >>> device snd_es137x # Ensoniq AudioPCI ES137x >>> device snd_hda # Intel High Definition Audio >>> device snd_ich # Intel, NVidia and other ICH AC'97 Audio >>> device snd_via8233 # VIA VT8233x Audio >>> >>> >>> The device "sound" is required, does that mean if I totally uncomment out >>> all the device including sound, then the machine won't boot? >>> >>> Does required mean a breaking kernel or just no sound? >> >> Required means any of the following snd_* devices require it to build. >> >> Commenting all devices you have listed results in a kernel that allows >> the module from audio/oss to be loaded. >> >> Having experimented with this a few days ago - while the sound and snd_* >> loadable modules are built, they are also permanently linked into the >> generic kernel which means we can't unload them after startup or prevent >> them loading in loader.conf, so to use the audio/oss kernel module a >> custom kernel needs to be built with these disabled. >> >> It is also possible to add >> WITHOUT_MODULES=sound snd_cmi snd_csa snd_emu10kx snd_es137x snd_hda >> snd_ich snd_via8233 >> to /etc/make.conf. >> >> Note that this leads to a generic kernel without sound that can be >> confusing later when you have forgotten. I would recommend using the >> custom kernel config with a descriptive name "ident NO_SOUND" so that >> later you know why sound stops working. >> >> I like to keep generic installed as kernel and give custom kernels >> different names - >> >> make buildkernel KERNCONF=NO_SOUND >> make installkernel KERNCONF=NO_SOUND KODIR=/boot/kernel.no_sound >> >> Add kernel="kernel.no_sound" to loader.conf to load it at boot. >> Add kernels="kernel,kernel.no_sound" to easily choose between them in >> the boot screen. >> >> I must admit to a lack of documentation regarding the install and use of >> audio/oss. While I didn't get far with config, I can contribute the >> above to installation. >> >> -- >> FreeBSD - the place to B...Software Developing >> >> Shane Ambler >> >> Hi Shane > > thanks for the tips, I just built a kernel with all of those sound drivers > commented out. > > There was no problem, except for the total lack of sound, which is expected. > My sound does make that default *beep* when I delete on an empty terminal > though. > > My goal is to port OSS 4.2 to get rid of all the patches and legacy OSS > stuff. > OSS has ALSA emulation so I should be able to test /ports/audio packages > to see what needs patching, updating etc... > > Once OSS 4.2 is in FreeBSD then I can work on adding OSS backends for > Chromium > and other software that I use. > > Chromium OSS feature request from 2009: > https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=19470 > > Would they still accept an OSS backend today? Hi, Most OSS v4 IOCTLs are supported by the in-base sound stack at /sys/dev/sound . Further there is a ALSA to OSS wrapper in audio/alsa-lib and audio/alsa-plugins which Chromium can use. Making audio/oss the default audio stack in FreeBSD will not make most FreeBSD users happy. This port is intended for studio professionals which buy $1000 PCI audio devices for audio production. Now with the advent of HighSpeed USB and SuperSpeed USB audio, there is no real need to invest in an expensive PCI device unless you need to do realtime audio processing. Further a lot of audio equipment also comes with an ethernet plug :-) Just FYI! --HPS From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Thu Dec 14 16:07:13 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DEBE8526C for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:07:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22b.google.com (mail-it0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13FB96A2DF for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:07:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f143so12267540itb.0 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:07:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Z21hHk91mi0iK1C7YE7uEjFq++8XF75cvdTh3FyihRY=; b=PwXlEyLX4ntYlLhT8DDGrgXJUrVj6NyLiobq9QUa8Hi9GBa3rqgR8/KT4Ugc++WwIQ yekuAQMTSxoITIoRv2ySWvSdq+YBM8PsjzH/7V9l6n89sxHhAbou0xK7LC7PirgXWJbF PqkucMURmbFPpdtsPQUf/E2wD9OPGHQmYxI7Hq7WtG54VIknC0Renj2o4tkB1YFAMpI+ 3aaIjSXrRUFV0s+tnwWMyAZSGRAfru29mWxcheIPHnA6DReLoDIlonKdjQE/7Ni7bn5R HHDZ2oA4ymG3PXi3FnwZme7ZL2D8AW1foTgjjt0OutSSVrHANlxckSeBSb9/BFi6j53+ tQHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Z21hHk91mi0iK1C7YE7uEjFq++8XF75cvdTh3FyihRY=; b=EpMR9FWvm1VazrtRILOBtL6SKIycVIQ9aM7yqKNvar78emBIlK2ENPDk+REP5Ale0c LPdVmXv2RBH23bmV89qtdw9DKRXTDOgCjlg6RsODCBTDVAs/qwIoLto1BDbwepbNKZHV sEgRBpf+DDjX4+4JxtCGI7e0KS6zH6yvnpUdBBEKMvOhM2V0kQBIa4FQvvEj5ibz836M CIcUcOn8GWAxRCMI1HeRe68RhCe2E2DYrjvyD0g0v0spzZyuYxPzZFXNw5zLVF916oHb XZwm/vDCNf/bAPtrczw65tCt2+j1zNlEuxzqtRXR1bn+0NmOo/voXHywc/HCw92SU96d XnQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJbOEQETKZtEQ9bY9rOlbBXPg5R8q79Ekr2VvGnzHSWJqjt7ZJg 16iwfPHT6Y4S861zpET50aymVWxPILFBrCYYP2gBkg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBot8EfOQ16qHn8gO+7y3vFZ0QaD29d7nkDf8+U50+zsItLmfdpIucquqEJfJOLStdRO6D7GpCHxMT6P6zgybDhk= X-Received: by 10.36.67.141 with SMTP id s135mr3755504itb.149.1513267632182; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:07:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: blubee blubeeme Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:07:01 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Has it really been 13 years? To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:07:13 -0000 I'm looking at the sound drivers for FreeBSD: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/modules/sound/ It seemed like development stalled about 13 years ago. Has no one done any work on FreeBSD audio for that long? Would anyone have issue with replacing ALSA with issue and calling it a day? If anyone have any reasons why this would be a bad idea please let me know. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Thu Dec 14 16:20:23 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174F2E85887 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:20:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Received: from mail.bsd4all.net (mail.bsd4all.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:217b::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.bsd4all.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA6AF6AB0C for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:20:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from herbert@gojira.at) Received: by mail.bsd4all.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3yyJgl4hfQzVWm; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:20:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:20:19 +0100 From: "Herbert J. Skuhra" To: blubee blubeeme Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Has it really been 13 years? Message-ID: <20171214162019.GA19885@mail.bsd4all.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:20:23 -0000 On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 04:07:01PM +0000, blubee blubeeme wrote: > I'm looking at the sound drivers for FreeBSD: > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/modules/sound/ > > It seemed like development stalled about 13 years ago. > > Has no one done any work on FreeBSD audio for that long? Maybe you should browse https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/head/sys/dev/sound/ -- Herbert From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Thu Dec 14 19:23:46 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A017E8C594 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:23:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd01@dgmm.net) Received: from outbound-queue-adx-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net (outbound-queue-adx-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net [212.11.71.247]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B7D74655 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd01@dgmm.net) Received: from outbound-edge-adx-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net (outbound-edge-adx-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net [212.11.71.231]) by outbound-queue-adx-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8255921F08 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cpc138954-jarr14-2-0-cust73.16-2.cable.virginm.net (HELO amd.asgard.uk) (92.236.194.74) (smtp-auth username dave%pop3.dgmm.net, mechanism plain) by outbound-edge-adx-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net (qpsmtpd/0.83) with ESMTPA; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:23:44 +0000 From: Dave To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:23:43 +0000 Message-ID: <11306056.b4aiv1Cy1A@amd.asgard.uk> User-Agent: KMail/4.14.10 (FreeBSD/10.3-RELEASE-p24; KDE/4.14.30; amd64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <374e-af0i-wny@FreeBSD.org> References: <374e-af0i-wny@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Gradwell-MongoId: 5a32cfc0.9565-29e9-2 X-Gradwell-Auth-Method: mailbox X-Gradwell-Auth-Credentials: dave@pop3.dgmm.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:23:46 -0000 On Wednesday 13 December 2017 15:17:33 Jan Beich wrote: > "Onno K." writes: > > > # aplay -l > > aplay: device_list:273: no soundcards found... > > # arecord -l > > arecord: device_list:273: no soundcards found... > > ALSA on FreeBSD doesn't support direct hardware access, it uses plugins > such as OSS, Jack, PulseAudio. Try instead: > > $ pkg install ffmpeg > $ ffmpeg -f oss -i /dev/dsp foo.wav > > $ ffmpeg -i foo.wav -f oss /dev/dsp > But do be aware that FFMPeG doesn't do mp3 encoding out of the box if that is required. You need to make config install and select lame or twolame options. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Thu Dec 14 22:51:36 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD18E929C6 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:51:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDF2F7D52D; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:51:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id 2E4CC8D34; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:51:35 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: Dave Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to capture audio with FreeBSD? References: <374e-af0i-wny@FreeBSD.org> <11306056.b4aiv1Cy1A@amd.asgard.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:51:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <11306056.b4aiv1Cy1A@amd.asgard.uk> (Dave's message of "Thu, 14 Dec 2017 19:23:43 +0000") Message-ID: <8te4-3oum-wny@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 22:51:36 -0000 Dave writes: > On Wednesday 13 December 2017 15:17:33 Jan Beich wrote: > >> "Onno K." writes: >> >> > # aplay -l >> > aplay: device_list:273: no soundcards found... >> > # arecord -l >> > arecord: device_list:273: no soundcards found... >> >> ALSA on FreeBSD doesn't support direct hardware access, it uses plugins >> such as OSS, Jack, PulseAudio. Try instead: >> >> $ pkg install ffmpeg >> $ ffmpeg -f oss -i /dev/dsp foo.wav >> >> $ ffmpeg -i foo.wav -f oss /dev/dsp >> > > But do be aware that FFMPeG doesn't do mp3 encoding out of the box > if that is required. You need to make config install and select lame or > twolame options. Maybe read archives instead of hijacking an unrelated thread. https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=223974 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 10:10:50 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51E8EA1B17 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:10:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7112F6FA82 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:10:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 82834260152; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:10:38 +0100 (CET) From: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme , "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" References: Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:07:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:10:50 -0000 On 12/14/17 14:23, blubee blubeeme wrote: > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Hans Petter Selasky > wrote: Hi, >> Most OSS v4 IOCTLs are supported by the in-base sound stack at >> /sys/dev/sound . Further there is a ALSA to OSS wrapper in audio/alsa-lib >> and audio/alsa-plugins which Chromium can use. >> > OSS provides ALSA emulation: You mean the audio/oss port provides ALSA emulation? ALSA is described here: https://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page From what I know ALSA is a user-space library for interacting with audio devices. The backend can vary from operating system to operating system. > http://ossnext.trueinstruments.com/wiki/index.php/Tips_And_Tricks > But I also don't mind writing OSS drivers from chromium, why emulate when > you can go native? If you want to make a native OSS driver backend for Chromium for both recording and playback, then please go ahead. >> Making audio/oss the default audio stack in FreeBSD will not make most >> FreeBSD users happy. > Why is this exactly? Most FreeBSD users don't even use the platform as > their daily driver, > it's just something they hack on in a VM from their shiny Macbook or > whatever. audio/oss is intended for a specific group of audio professionals using FreeBSD on real machines. OSS in FreeBSD-base has far better support for the regular audio devices which you find in laptops, computers, raspberry PI, not to mention USB and VM's. > > I can't speak for anyone but myself but I'd like to make FreeBSD user > friendly for regular people > who just want to surf the web and check their emails, this is just a step > in that direction. Despite your good intentions you shouldn't blame the in-base FreeBSD OSS stack that you cannot do what you want with Chromium, because the Chromium developer officially only supports the ALSA audio backend. If you want to do something good for FreeBSD, make sure documentation about new CPU architectures and coming chips both PCI and USB are made available before products are released and not several years after the Linux developers hacked together a driver. Second, make sure the different PCI and USB vendors test their products with FreeBSD aswell, before they release them into the market. >> This port is intended for studio professionals which buy $1000 PCI audio >> devices for audio production. Now with the advent of HighSpeed USB and >> SuperSpeed USB audio, there is no real need to invest in an expensive PCI >> device unless you need to do realtime audio processing. Further a lot of >> audio equipment also comes with an ethernet plug :-) Just FYI! > > I am one of those guys and trust me I've had my fair share of issues with > Audio even on Linux. > You can even see this lil exchange on Ardours forum: > https://community.ardour.org/node/15438 What is written on page 24 in the document referred to in the link above is not fully true: https://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Paul-Davis-lpc2009.pdf The OSS API is not only for the kernel, it is a general purpose character device IOCTL API for any audio application. With the advent of CUSE and audio/virtual_oss this is especially true. If you're smart you can take advantage of CUSE's mmap() functionality to share memory between clients and server having zero copyin/copyout latency. The regular audio producing applications need no more than what the OSS IOCTL API can provide, namely setting the sample rate, sample format, MONO or STEREO, looking at how many bytes are buffered and that's it. Please also note that the OSS support in Linux may not be as advanced as that in FreeBSD. From what I know Linux the OSS support couldn't change the sample rate and format in-kernel, leaving this up to every application, which might be an argument against OSS in Linux, but not in FreeBSD: To my knowledge there is now a dozen software audio engines around for various Linux desktops and JACK is one of them. https://lwn.net/Articles/308445/ Again, I don't see a problem using libalsa on FreeBSD with applications coming from Linux. Even if this is a kind of emulation like you say, emulation can also be so-called seamless, that the user won't notice any difference. If there are bugs in the OSS ALSA backend, let's try to identify them and improve the current situation. > > Anyways, everyone has this idea that OSS is dead or it's terrible but I'm > looking for the best performance > if you listen to this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oQF2TzCYtQ&t=3s > You'll see that it's ALSA, Pulse & JACK that are dying/ dead. Linux guys like to "kill" stuff obviously and that is their motivation I guess :-) > > I did a lot of audio work on Android and trust me, they try to avoid ALSA > like the plague. Reminds me of Samsungs attempt at JACK support for Android :-) > You might say, what about ALSA? Well OSS supports ALSA emulation: > http://ossnext.trueinstruments.com/wiki/index.php/Tips_And_Tricks > It just needs some work. > > Once the updated OSS is a part of the kernel then things can move forward. audio/oss is not sourcecode. It is a binary blob. It won't be accepted into the kernel. > How much audio progressed in FreeBSD or Linux in the past 10 years? Read the SVN history for "sys/dev/sound" in the FreeBSD source tree. --HPS From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 10:34:38 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627D6EA233B for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:34:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x229.google.com (mail-it0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2480070696 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:34:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x229.google.com with SMTP id m11so29021450iti.1 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 02:34:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zutSKhFbmx6Uts5Fp62DcEvEpnzwJl9K1V+w528PJGE=; b=nFtalPr5JavrKYGhdPNPRk83tvdnRUcNEMI4e0mP2iafMOthq6LyEuMO/45supMKjJ 64BjQ6+umgPKv5rGGLkjBnTIrIVIVjvcQroL2tOl3qeQHJQnP3Dn8iYxbNFph8dD4ZYx d6adF3dFh0YQD+WBVBqJgtEiCKL5LP/FxmgRvNn2RE8G3XjRP2C6S9oY0t3GQ/1Bbfz9 TNOd886RQqooGrE1mx/Tuqonm6NlbDXGVl74xWI0S+GXgT/BS88nNK+MkVjoqKmul59i Y79NKhEyWVt7FYfQxTg4lHdtAVFc/UMrIbStmikvJ3LqwrSULWkKMevDXU4g4e0ZcP4D sztA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zutSKhFbmx6Uts5Fp62DcEvEpnzwJl9K1V+w528PJGE=; b=iQJqqYMQln8lJygWIwW5aKwM5T2K64t3ebPcTV+z+4a4GqbNPA6dzskMmIIwTgLgG+ HXzkuPHsr2WrLfqBsBxL3BUfUWGkoC96XrbCeoIrXfuPn3oURce7Z7bpfovQoVpGVQKv ZzczQyNm+r2FdufBthqA9qGWW4Jg3FHjSztED1R9xEBeF+FZtvNpp/hjNBF7CRYwQKkm Y9KFwT1eyIKhmSFESCW8rxJkNWcJey4x5LgS3Y+h7rwAvAjTYSoZWMuh2F9gWTKGgUH2 dds+GU8bX/l3C0TZF7Trt0iySG7O2zOBwTf1y/fO/imOpe6CfpcbXTRT2oTTNBlgoKcE HHAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLhByoK363wpq4N99iDrOOs1wmeyrkapbFsRjOx2pAHs6n5q7pi ZkCvSyJrFh75ZeXzCf1x9lMqQ4SZAu7gzXzPbyehL+gb X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouXTwfSWwRNexvufkE1Poj9ECGxRuWGdLj8HRpEwikCOzOoHwBL2iX2sCXHleHbt0MQjwci06awwWITQ9egV/I= X-Received: by 10.107.128.152 with SMTP id k24mr11379021ioi.184.1513334077393; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 02:34:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.9 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 02:34:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: blubee blubeeme Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:34:36 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 10:34:38 -0000 On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:07 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 12/14/17 14:23, blubee blubeeme wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Hans Petter Selasky >> wrote: >> > > Hi, > > Most OSS v4 IOCTLs are supported by the in-base sound stack at >>> /sys/dev/sound . Further there is a ALSA to OSS wrapper in audio/alsa-lib >>> and audio/alsa-plugins which Chromium can use. >>> >>> OSS provides ALSA emulation: >> > > You mean the audio/oss port provides ALSA emulation? > > ALSA is described here: > https://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page > > From what I know ALSA is a user-space library for interacting with audio > devices. The backend can vary from operating system to operating system. > > http://ossnext.trueinstruments.com/wiki/index.php/Tips_And_Tricks >> But I also don't mind writing OSS drivers from chromium, why emulate when >> you can go native? >> > > If you want to make a native OSS driver backend for Chromium for both > recording and playback, then please go ahead. > > Making audio/oss the default audio stack in FreeBSD will not make most >>> FreeBSD users happy. >>> >> > Why is this exactly? Most FreeBSD users don't even use the platform as >> their daily driver, >> it's just something they hack on in a VM from their shiny Macbook or >> whatever. >> > > audio/oss is intended for a specific group of audio professionals using > FreeBSD on real machines. OSS in FreeBSD-base has far better support for > the regular audio devices which you find in laptops, computers, raspberry > PI, not to mention USB and VM's. > > >> I can't speak for anyone but myself but I'd like to make FreeBSD user >> friendly for regular people >> who just want to surf the web and check their emails, this is just a step >> in that direction. >> > > Despite your good intentions you shouldn't blame the in-base FreeBSD OSS > stack that you cannot do what you want with Chromium, because the Chromium > developer officially only supports the ALSA audio backend. > > If you want to do something good for FreeBSD, make sure documentation > about new CPU architectures and coming chips both PCI and USB are made > available before products are released and not several years after the > Linux developers hacked together a driver. Second, make sure the different > PCI and USB vendors test their products with FreeBSD aswell, before they > release them into the market. > > This port is intended for studio professionals which buy $1000 PCI audio >>> devices for audio production. Now with the advent of HighSpeed USB and >>> SuperSpeed USB audio, there is no real need to invest in an expensive PCI >>> device unless you need to do realtime audio processing. Further a lot of >>> audio equipment also comes with an ethernet plug :-) Just FYI! >>> >> >> I am one of those guys and trust me I've had my fair share of issues with >> Audio even on Linux. >> You can even see this lil exchange on Ardours forum: >> https://community.ardour.org/node/15438 >> > > What is written on page 24 in the document referred to in the link above > is not fully true: > https://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Paul-Davis-lpc2009.pdf > > The OSS API is not only for the kernel, it is a general purpose character > device IOCTL API for any audio application. With the advent of CUSE and > audio/virtual_oss this is especially true. If you're smart you can take > advantage of CUSE's mmap() functionality to share memory between clients > and server having zero copyin/copyout latency. > > The regular audio producing applications need no more than what the OSS > IOCTL API can provide, namely setting the sample rate, sample format, MONO > or STEREO, looking at how many bytes are buffered and that's it. > > Please also note that the OSS support in Linux may not be as advanced as > that in FreeBSD. From what I know Linux the OSS support couldn't change the > sample rate and format in-kernel, leaving this up to every application, > which might be an argument against OSS in Linux, but not in FreeBSD: > > To my knowledge there is now a dozen software audio engines around for > various Linux desktops and JACK is one of them. > > https://lwn.net/Articles/308445/ > > Again, I don't see a problem using libalsa on FreeBSD with applications > coming from Linux. Even if this is a kind of emulation like you say, > emulation can also be so-called seamless, that the user won't notice any > difference. If there are bugs in the OSS ALSA backend, let's try to > identify them and improve the current situation. > > >> Anyways, everyone has this idea that OSS is dead or it's terrible but I'm >> looking for the best performance >> if you listen to this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch? >> v=6oQF2TzCYtQ&t=3s >> You'll see that it's ALSA, Pulse & JACK that are dying/ dead. >> > > Linux guys like to "kill" stuff obviously and that is their motivation I > guess :-) > > >> I did a lot of audio work on Android and trust me, they try to avoid ALSA >> like the plague. >> > > Reminds me of Samsungs attempt at JACK support for Android :-) > > You might say, what about ALSA? Well OSS supports ALSA emulation: >> http://ossnext.trueinstruments.com/wiki/index.php/Tips_And_Tricks >> It just needs some work. >> >> Once the updated OSS is a part of the kernel then things can move forward. >> > > audio/oss is not sourcecode. It is a binary blob. It won't be accepted > into the kernel. > > How much audio progressed in FreeBSD or Linux in the past 10 years? >> > > Read the SVN history for "sys/dev/sound" in the FreeBSD source tree. > > --HPS > I feel like you're talking at something and not understanding my objectives. It's pretty simple: replace ALSA w/ upstreamed OSS. FreeBSD's implementation of OSS is missing a few features that hamstring the development on FreeBSD. Also, why would FreeBSD want to maintain it's own implementation of an open source project? What part of oss source: https://sourceforge.net/p/opensound/git/ci/master/tree/ is a binary blob? From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 11:36:39 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 448E4EA395C for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:36:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BFD972703 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:36:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 46092260152; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:36:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" References: From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:33:48 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:36:39 -0000 Hi, On 12/15/17 11:34, blubee blubeeme wrote: > I feel like you're talking at something and not understanding my objectives. > It's pretty simple: replace ALSA w/ upstreamed OSS. I think you need to dig a bit more into the code itself to see what are the actual differences before I can say if your idea is good or not. I'm sorry, but I don't know opensound's code well enough to comment further on this. > FreeBSD's implementation of OSS is missing a few features that hamstring > the development on FreeBSD. What are those features exactly? Why can't they be implemented in FreeBSD's sound stack? > Also, why would FreeBSD want to maintain it's own implementation of an open > source project? I believe this has been discussed before and maybe there are more threads around which will answer your question. https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/163/ > > What part of oss source: > https://sourceforge.net/p/opensound/git/ci/master/tree/ > is a binary blob? > OK, I see the source code is available and that "audio/oss" is compiled from source. --HPS From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 12:03:07 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5591DEA47FE for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:03:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x230.google.com (mail-it0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16D9D7388F for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:03:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x230.google.com with SMTP id m11so29296103iti.1 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:03:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RPtez0EdSNDdRj693RCBOCRrhyegBkkTFTQluZJBtqY=; b=gmZzMT9lWxLnizi6rzgsgS7bt5C3H5d1y3fIV9mlW5yoGF9M8FzLkLKUuiP9mlpptV D7ObHpWQbQPvgJOXGFzOy+XTL62FH9SB5/wwq3Llt0AZJmSYNqtuEsy6yhQnI85mPoHy CXe4bgtexZdbUryJ1Wlu5/su1CVge4LbW62QB3gDEtJ2x+2B01hVMIbKWq7h0kih50za nxDfiB/41+rEE6VqVoYYv2jTUNdzMsULvXjDcWkMSj5aq710BabpaxA8S/ut5D5kg+Nr GBiXkFfW0uE0Z4GnLNxKFncmKqjrZeO2RjI6jPFZ1tFGuMxO6ffJUsSSQnMULiculbvH CcRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RPtez0EdSNDdRj693RCBOCRrhyegBkkTFTQluZJBtqY=; b=WAxvqWUxBrG1eqNxnu8xsecsUIZWjk/t+I/XGoep1WgO716h/+g6ZOqpH4oA7RXS5M XiIWhlv9LA2iKXUS+zi0nk8ZXfI7Qmk+ih1eKonnrfh/yWGiLVJs9pJs1og1W2SGv+jv 601ZGYWJFViDkTXgb3XNE0Avd95mUEGJusJJu+EjWDzxsDyv5KJuSBFUgkQPrLlO5JPW UWstOoV7Ogr+G8bR6FWxpSD9v934E58htru1tGEi+KziUCjgEuUvAwkjS7g5JiBxbdu7 ySUObGxZSpcedcr0lH3oo7oONb4D13wQ+HkperY9COgfy4MvDHFTrWv2cEsUmJMEyzls RTvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJtU2rmAaTy2eudZ187n6DWYw+kct7P7mjssZl9/rwzxaLTfqEB oYNlsBFGarau7XI98XyEZKzwHEOsf/6Vg38aze4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouOI/VzNTuf6ahlWrLtA9uhlK1tp6Eb5iJIxropH+bg/OIHT5tVrFGNyr11ghB5BIrhY3KyXHrXcArWUajal8Q= X-Received: by 10.107.128.152 with SMTP id k24mr11673970ioi.184.1513339386228; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:03:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.9 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:03:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 20:03:05 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:03:07 -0000 On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > Hi, > > On 12/15/17 11:34, blubee blubeeme wrote: > >> I feel like you're talking at something and not understanding my >> objectives. >> It's pretty simple: replace ALSA w/ upstreamed OSS. >> > > I think you need to dig a bit more into the code itself to see what are > the actual differences before I can say if your idea is good or not. I'm > sorry, but I don't know opensound's code well enough to comment further on > this. > > FreeBSD's implementation of OSS is missing a few features that hamstring >> the development on FreeBSD. >> > > What are those features exactly? Why can't they be implemented in > FreeBSD's sound stack? > > Also, why would FreeBSD want to maintain it's own implementation of an open >> source project? >> > I believe this has been discussed before and maybe there are more threads > around which will answer your question. > > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/163/ > > >> What part of oss source: >> https://sourceforge.net/p/opensound/git/ci/master/tree/ >> is a binary blob? >> >> > OK, I see the source code is available and that "audio/oss" is compiled > from source. > > --HPS > This is exactly what I am talking about. FreeBSD OSS implementation is better, let's update it: https://wiki.freebsd.org/RyanBeasley That was created in 2008 and never touched a day after, why? Hey guys why don't you use oss in base, because our oss is better and we make it match our kernel. Okay great, can we update it, nope we don't have the manpower to do that. Did "RyanBeasley (last edited 2008-06-17 21:37:27 by localhost)" ever come back and did any work other than create a wiki page? So, when will FreeBSD OSS fork get in sync with what's available online right now? What's with the circular logic here? From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 12:30:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A640BE8012F for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E1E5740F2 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0CDC260152; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 13:30:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 13:27:28 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:30:17 -0000 On 12/15/17 13:03, blubee blubeeme wrote: > On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Hans Petter Selasky > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 12/15/17 11:34, blubee blubeeme wrote: >> >>> I feel like you're talking at something and not understanding my >>> objectives. >>> It's pretty simple: replace ALSA w/ upstreamed OSS. >>> >> >> I think you need to dig a bit more into the code itself to see what are >> the actual differences before I can say if your idea is good or not. I'm >> sorry, but I don't know opensound's code well enough to comment further on >> this. >> >> FreeBSD's implementation of OSS is missing a few features that hamstring >>> the development on FreeBSD. >>> >> >> What are those features exactly? Why can't they be implemented in >> FreeBSD's sound stack? >> >> Also, why would FreeBSD want to maintain it's own implementation of an open >>> source project? >>> >> I believe this has been discussed before and maybe there are more threads >> around which will answer your question. >> >> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/163/ >> >> >>> What part of oss source: >>> https://sourceforge.net/p/opensound/git/ci/master/tree/ >>> is a binary blob? >>> >>> >> OK, I see the source code is available and that "audio/oss" is compiled >> from source. >> >> --HPS >> Hi, Can you answer my questions please? I feel like arguing with a bot. You claim: FreeBSD's implementation of OSS is missing a few features that hamstring the development on FreeBSD. I ask: What are those features exactly? Why can't they be implemented in FreeBSD's sound stack? --HPS > This is exactly what I am talking about. > FreeBSD OSS implementation is better, let's update it: > https://wiki.freebsd.org/RyanBeasley > That was created in 2008 and never touched a day after, why? > > Hey guys why don't you use oss in base, because our oss is better and we > make it match our kernel. > Okay great, can we update it, nope we don't have the manpower to do that. > > Did "RyanBeasley (last edited 2008-06-17 21:37:27 by localhost)" > ever come back and did any work other than create a wiki page? > > So, when will FreeBSD OSS fork get in sync with what's available online > right now? > What's with the circular logic here? > From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 12:44:06 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E275E8095F for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:44:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BDA974C9A; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:44:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id ACE3612116; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:44:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: blubee blubeeme Cc: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 13:43:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: (blubee blubeeme's message of "Fri, 15 Dec 2017 20:03:05 +0800") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:44:06 -0000 blubee blubeeme writes: > This is exactly what I am talking about. > FreeBSD OSS implementation is better, let's update it: > https://wiki.freebsd.org/RyanBeasley > That was created in 2008 and never touched a day after, why? Which landed as part of https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/193640 From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 12:52:09 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E674DE80D41 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:52:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x242.google.com (mail-it0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6FE0750B9 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:52:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x242.google.com with SMTP id f143so18763195itb.0 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:52:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1FyD13XPiM7v04ImK++zAGWqdONBfZSZoHfmxTZd2Hs=; b=TUO0EJz6ZJxFAw9LD/J3sm3fk5pV7yFK7bM2j077jkEIF84D36Jl3OJgax4U5Y8z1A QbK6ChlrFsx5W9eJp2KsEsaSgyxtRaDykSjO+kz00qsdYCUCDNIwJ/UV8lyz3muVcm2A SuxXy8wqBKBv8YlpOcgXvCCma5yyfLmOGUuX5QFJ7YbGG7swwWmW/nNPyHDWlmY7kqgT in//PbdH+gQ9exs1etTje3urUr5JrAGotrfE0g/SXvzSvTiwXyP+o0zn7acJTlixZ1fl mI48DLhfifnN0tEm0otgY1qUF7ioTeHP2civ/5/1DjeIDToxjhxC+QiAZfNfi5pHnRms tXNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1FyD13XPiM7v04ImK++zAGWqdONBfZSZoHfmxTZd2Hs=; b=Aco959Ck3uh/PV1Eaz+vu1tg6LIwy3bDzR87BsujdhVuuIfwav9BIFlkhoL+fwPTU0 Z4kbB1G+KLVVFwvL71WmG4cWf9pdUJiQULp1QVTm2elLYgp2o77+T5x/xI/DlP46ASOe ZU8nEUEnzg4ua8YOCXk5Hos3oBgH+6e8w/Mxijt+VQzsKxLGHIwkyRpIuU3DoIvjfy7C 6KUHyeBb6OkDXGZrMmGz+HMTDYd+Ip8amjEWF/YTXRnwAVHvsl7nHN8FjvtQRFLMvizA jC0Bhqx3lIZWsbu4SvoOs7ckYVNUXtsecjsqQOasTGhigSdbrtVJXI5MplgrWhzhYbQd EG0g== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIjPclCGAWySJZvzBpwVlwPdhb7P+0sXNBZC7lXGbKeXpv12F0p +uktMAG4F+fScP5dQY9teREAfnM6PfhulMzBxSAOw7wq X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBot/jVF7Fies4MNPM9NCB/PbWwCHzsXlSfM0lBMaq0bWuZ08mdkgTtGiXWk4bfQ4XV2UKtv58kqNzh3QfZYaaWo= X-Received: by 10.36.116.135 with SMTP id o129mr7404066itc.119.1513342328899; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:52:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.9 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:52:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 20:52:08 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 12:52:10 -0000 On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 12/15/17 13:03, blubee blubeeme wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Hans Petter Selasky >> wrote: >> >> Hi, >>> >>> On 12/15/17 11:34, blubee blubeeme wrote: >>> >>> I feel like you're talking at something and not understanding my >>>> objectives. >>>> It's pretty simple: replace ALSA w/ upstreamed OSS. >>>> >>>> >>> I think you need to dig a bit more into the code itself to see what are >>> the actual differences before I can say if your idea is good or not. I'm >>> sorry, but I don't know opensound's code well enough to comment further >>> on >>> this. >>> >>> FreeBSD's implementation of OSS is missing a few features that hamstring >>> >>>> the development on FreeBSD. >>>> >>>> >>> What are those features exactly? Why can't they be implemented in >>> FreeBSD's sound stack? >>> >>> Also, why would FreeBSD want to maintain it's own implementation of an >>> open >>> >>>> source project? >>>> >>>> I believe this has been discussed before and maybe there are more >>> threads >>> around which will answer your question. >>> >>> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/163/ >>> >>> >>> What part of oss source: >>>> https://sourceforge.net/p/opensound/git/ci/master/tree/ >>>> is a binary blob? >>>> >>>> >>>> OK, I see the source code is available and that "audio/oss" is compiled >>> from source. >>> >>> --HPS >>> >>> > Hi, > > Can you answer my questions please? I feel like arguing with a bot. > > You claim: > > FreeBSD's implementation of OSS is missing a few features that hamstring > the development on FreeBSD. > > I ask: > > What are those features exactly? > Why can't they be implemented in FreeBSD's sound stack? > > --HPS > > This is exactly what I am talking about. >> FreeBSD OSS implementation is better, let's update it: >> https://wiki.freebsd.org/RyanBeasley >> That was created in 2008 and never touched a day after, why? >> >> Hey guys why don't you use oss in base, because our oss is better and we >> make it match our kernel. >> Okay great, can we update it, nope we don't have the manpower to do that. >> >> Did "RyanBeasley (last edited 2008-06-17 21:37:27 by localhost)" >> ever come back and did any work other than create a wiki page? >> >> So, when will FreeBSD OSS fork get in sync with what's available online >> right now? >> What's with the circular logic here? >> >> > When you read this document: https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT and search for all the "OSSv4 Compatibility:" comments You'll see that these devs in their wisdom introduced many bugs. One of the main ones that I'll spend some time with is this line below. --- How: open("/dev/dsp", O_ | O_EXCL); OSSv4 Compatibility: This feature is mostly compatible with OSSv4, except that 4front OSS prevents all other applications from running (stalled/halted, other unknown grave effects) if any sound device being accessed in a such way. FreeBSD does this smartly on top of the Transparent / Adaptive Virtual Channel. --- This is the exact reason why so many *unix developers and users are always claiming that the latency is high in their audio programs or *unix needs a real time OS to do proper audio. That was designed to fail to fix the issues from Jack/ ALSA/ OSSv3 and the other legacy audio interfaces. I can't name any audio program that needs exclusive access to sound hardware. Here's the bug these "clever" developers introduced by purposefully going around the API. When an audio application gets exclusive access to the device, they then try to implement their own timers as to when to release the hardware, this is inevitably done incorrectly, this leads to janky audio because janky developers don't want to follow protocol. oss v4 made sure to make this type of access fail, so developers could learn good practices but clever devs patch it out. Then you have ALSA trying to reduce latency or Jack trying to reduce latency or Pulse trying to reduce latency when the issue is, ignorant developers grabbing exclusive access to sound hardware and making a mess of things. There's a reason why the FreeBSD kernel guys design a few mutex locks and tell you to use those and not try to make ur own mutex and even then people still make a mess sometimes. That's just one reason why what those clever FreeBSD guys did was a terrible idea. Can anyone on this list give me any reason they think that any piece of software should have exclusive access to sound hardware? From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 14:17:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD92E82776 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:17:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EC1D7748D for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:17:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D013260152; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:17:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:15:08 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:17:59 -0000 On 12/15/17 13:52, blubee blubeeme wrote: >> When you read this document:https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT > and search for all the "OSSv4 Compatibility:" comments Hi, > > This is the exact reason why so many *unix developers and users are always > claiming that the latency is high in their audio programs or *unix needs a > real time OS to do proper audio. FreeBSD's OSS subsystem supports both exclusive access, called bitperfect, where no timers are involved, and the latency follows the selected buffer size, and virtual OSS channels, which is the default, which let multiple applications perform playback at the same time w/o any need for any special library handling like JACK or ALSA. > That was designed to fail to fix the issues from Jack/ ALSA/ OSSv3 and the > other legacy audio interfaces. > Here's the bug these "clever" developers introduced by purposefully going > around the API. It is not a bug nor failure, it is an excellent feature. It also allows multiple different system users to playback audio at the same time. > When an audio application gets exclusive access to the device, they then > try to implement their own timers as to when to release the hardware, this > is inevitably done incorrectly, this leads to janky audio because janky > developers don't want to follow protocol. I find the logic in your English inverted. Did you forget the word "not"? > > oss v4 made sure to make this type of access fail, so developers could > learn good practices but clever devs patch it out. > > Then you have ALSA trying to reduce latency or Jack trying to reduce > latency or Pulse trying to reduce latency when the issue is, ignorant > developers grabbing exclusive access to sound hardware and making a mess of > things. > > There's a reason why the FreeBSD kernel guys design a few mutex locks and > tell you to use those and not try to make ur own mutex and even then people > still make a mess sometimes. > > That's just one reason why what those clever FreeBSD guys did was a > terrible idea. > > Can anyone on this list give me any reason they think that any piece of > software should have exclusive access to sound hardware? Please spend some time to write proper English. I'm finding it hard to understand what you mean. Summing up: You want to make audio/oss from ports the default, because the latency in sys/dev/sound causes "janky" audio, because Chromium doesn't play well with FreeBSD's OSS and libalsa? This doesn't make sense. I suspect there is some misconfiguration on your side, that libalsa doesn't see the default FreeBSD's OSS devices through its alsa-OSS plugin. --HPS From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 14:39:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290ECE82D48 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:39:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x242.google.com (mail-it0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF65977C2B for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:39:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x242.google.com with SMTP id z6so19958521iti.4 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 06:39:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=alDMtmEhYDoBfC47uwHJfgEafoGDlw478QJaF+reCgc=; b=MuT/1uLU1vliQiRaiJIIBlOvC5MQNjpeyhE5t0oe8B6bmuRqVFU3VEjJapUjrB7v8j dwZsrOOwcSxDmFCErfakzGOoqr4z7z2mu+RYtFE10ozLbPbeFpRRcmhmHxGkNoc12Jnx CXibt3NVY+vPRWqK3dMnDUJhaJFuEPcj7xgGXSlWdzAV4CQpqBIxtZ8I1YAChM+QmY+k XihJ/TBvI5IBSsdXEE1qH5tGbKcZbdS68RctaPTWWAux3RNJZONETdyqf8Zhmkil5Tup Pxq5tupqsc1J4h7Ma+b+zBR8xs7dUmSElUl8kNbNgsEeHDcOprUPgU6zGG851fF+kppo ndtw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=alDMtmEhYDoBfC47uwHJfgEafoGDlw478QJaF+reCgc=; b=uh/2QrLuE354UFd9zJbKOd3WEfUeWceZFqBWbylMXo11WqZALpKFwzAwJGm2ODk5d/ +GFlOKQ3FaqzTaX+89L0r6IRmr6Ihn2xD3d61+p994P7E8Ybf6Oe9NmAaB3Sdo09TRZ2 ZzYZFUwp/X4HfSAo+hIoXZ2CF6/mwpCNpxD02MibESGG45vZ0O5kPoTP4YCVpuCfuGmR 9970/ejrY3/WgKVGtREwoeP323sSsTjJwHS3nKNG7QoQY2US2G0xoWDJJbygZh2eG+fR dklLLcSKIKcVtrpKT9OnEZ4aTe4bunhXU3FncMP+fqTrY/zy/4OqsrLMvgWvOc7qfXEb 688Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJkU8YgqIONxIIyxHf63u8rZlxUbJOm/+mAifKwfou/o81jCIvZ lx1Igiu9/YHR4W3sTAugjHt7tpFmJf+emKoR3Qc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovIGoCMaxbo8Fms+Tn4PNC3TWarBfJUnvqfflOKpppqEl70+9O0h3+l0XrtPaek4zp7WiAUrEdsdA5/UI0jFEA= X-Received: by 10.107.16.158 with SMTP id 30mr3866152ioq.291.1513348766047; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 06:39:26 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.9 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 06:39:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 22:39:25 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:39:27 -0000 On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:15 PM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 12/15/17 13:52, blubee blubeeme wrote: > >> When you read this document:https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT >>> >> and search for all the "OSSv4 Compatibility:" comments >> > > Hi, > > >> This is the exact reason why so many *unix developers and users are always >> claiming that the latency is high in their audio programs or *unix needs a >> real time OS to do proper audio. >> > > FreeBSD's OSS subsystem supports both exclusive access, called bitperfect, > where no timers are involved, and the latency follows the selected buffer > size, and virtual OSS channels, which is the default, which let multiple > applications perform playback at the same time w/o any need for any special > library handling like JACK or ALSA. > > That was designed to fail to fix the issues from Jack/ ALSA/ OSSv3 and the >> other legacy audio interfaces. >> > > Here's the bug these "clever" developers introduced by purposefully going >> around the API. >> > > It is not a bug nor failure, it is an excellent feature. It also allows > multiple different system users to playback audio at the same time. > > When an audio application gets exclusive access to the device, they then >> try to implement their own timers as to when to release the hardware, this >> is inevitably done incorrectly, this leads to janky audio because janky >> developers don't want to follow protocol. >> > > I find the logic in your English inverted. Did you forget the word "not"? > > >> oss v4 made sure to make this type of access fail, so developers could >> learn good practices but clever devs patch it out. >> >> Then you have ALSA trying to reduce latency or Jack trying to reduce >> latency or Pulse trying to reduce latency when the issue is, ignorant >> developers grabbing exclusive access to sound hardware and making a mess >> of >> things. >> >> There's a reason why the FreeBSD kernel guys design a few mutex locks and >> tell you to use those and not try to make ur own mutex and even then >> people >> still make a mess sometimes. >> >> That's just one reason why what those clever FreeBSD guys did was a >> terrible idea. >> >> Can anyone on this list give me any reason they think that any piece of >> software should have exclusive access to sound hardware? >> > Please spend some time to write proper English. I'm finding it hard to > understand what you mean. > > Summing up: > > You want to make audio/oss from ports the default, because the latency in > sys/dev/sound causes "janky" audio, because Chromium doesn't play well with > FreeBSD's OSS and libalsa? This doesn't make sense. I suspect there is > some misconfiguration on your side, that libalsa doesn't see the default > FreeBSD's OSS devices through its alsa-OSS plugin. > > --HPS > I'd appreciate it if you kept the discussion on sound and improve your English comprehension. I gave one example of a Chromium bug where they said they'd accept an OSS patch. I did not say janky audio in Chromium have anything to do with why I think OSS is a better choice for the default audio system. You've made that assumption in this thread numerous times and I've ignored it because I wouldn't expect someone to be that dense. It doesn't make sense because you fail to understand English, that's not my fault. I have been porting synth tools to FreeBSD and I'd like to continue to port the software, implementing OSS backends for them based on the current upstream I am running into errors because of these so called "excellent" features which causes a lot of headache. What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand which is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that sticks to the OSS standard. There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on FreeBSD. You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you react like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying code. Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and if they are not, they can still be added. I'd really appreciate it if you refrained from your continued attempts at ad hominem against me and stick to code and a discussion around ideas and implementations. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 18:45:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2506E8922E for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:45:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53EB980E86 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:45:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8232126030E; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 19:45:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: blubee blubeeme Cc: "freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org" References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <82f7f862-d44e-4553-50d0-ed5b4c9c0182@selasky.org> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 19:42:22 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:45:19 -0000 Hi, On 12/15/17 15:39, blubee blubeeme wrote: > I'd appreciate it if you kept the discussion on sound and improve your > English comprehension. See below. > I gave one example of a Chromium bug where they said they'd accept an OSS > patch. I did not say janky audio in Chromium have anything to do with why I > think OSS is a better choice for the default audio system. Can you explain again using technical terms: 1) Why is 4Front's OSSv4 better than the in-base FreeBSD OSSv4? 2) Why do we need native OSSv4 support in Chromium? 3) Why can't we use the library provided by the port at /usr/ports/audio/alsa-lib to implement audio support in Chromium? > You've made that assumption in this thread numerous times and I've ignored > it because I wouldn't expect someone to be that dense. Can you expand the word "that" in the sentence above? What are you referring to? I see no connection :-( > It doesn't make sense because you fail to understand English, that's not my > fault. If you want to get a message through on this list keep it simple and stupid, KISS, for a start. I'm sorry my comment about your English was seen as a personal attack, "ad hominem". That was not my intention. > > I have been porting synth tools to FreeBSD and I'd like to continue to port > the software, implementing OSS backends for them based on the current > upstream I am running into errors because of these so called "excellent" > features which causes a lot of headache. Exactly what are the "errors" you refer to in the paragraph above? Can you list them up one by one, including a brief explanation about the problem and the solution the way you see it? > What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand which > is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that > sticks to the OSS standard. Can you give a reference to the claim FreeBSD's OSSv4 is a fork of 4Front's OSS? > > There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on > FreeBSD. Words like "nobody", "noone", "everyone", "everybody" and so on are frequently used to create a conflict. Is that what you are trying to do? > You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you react > like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying code. I'm sorry and I don't understand what you are trying to express in the paragraph above. Who are you addressing in the paragraph above? Is it me, HPS, or is it the "FreeBSD developers" in general? What do you mean by "underlying code"? The underlying code of what? This is a half of a sentence in my opinion! > these "clever" developers Who are the "clever" developers you refer to? Can you list their names? > Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and if > they are not, they can still be added. OSS4 what? Again, please expand the sentences so that I and others reading this list understand better what you actually mean. When I'm reading: "most of the clever features in OSS4" , it can mean multiple things. Either you refer to OSS4 as 4Front's opensound code, or OSS4 means the OSS4 IOCTL API for interfacing with audio character devices. What do you mean? Do you mean the smart features are in 4Front's opensound code or do you mean all the smart features are in the OSS4 IOCTL API? > I'd really appreciate it if you refrained from your continued attempts at > ad hominem against me and stick to code and a discussion around ideas and > implementations. Try to put in a few more words when explaining technical things in this thread. Try to limit the scope of what you are trying to say. I've tried as best as I can to point out where our communication stalls. This is not meant as a personal attack. Again, I'm having a hard time trying to fully understand what you mean or maybe someone else on this list will understand you better. --HPS From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 18:57:50 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB99E895E3 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:57:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C36E3159F; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:57:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id 0203817A9D; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:57:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: blubee blubeeme , "freebsd-multimedia\@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> <82f7f862-d44e-4553-50d0-ed5b4c9c0182@selasky.org> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 19:57:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <82f7f862-d44e-4553-50d0-ed5b4c9c0182@selasky.org> (Hans Petter Selasky's message of "Fri, 15 Dec 2017 19:42:22 +0100") Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:57:51 -0000 Hans Petter Selasky writes: > On 12/15/17 15:39, blubee blubeeme wrote: >> What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand which >> is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that >> sticks to the OSS standard. > > Can you give a reference to the claim FreeBSD's OSSv4 is a fork of > 4Front's OSS? Sorry, probably me. https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2017-December/111382.html From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 00:17:01 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03135E90D0D for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 00:17:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mailgate.Leidinger.net (mailgate.leidinger.net [IPv6:2a00:1828:2000:375::1:5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6C016CC25 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 00:17:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:16:14 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1513383415; bh=bjdCXyt6jfYAQXAM8ZOQS5yBWDAijJQCIR8my2s/fAE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=lCooVPkr6LWnycM1FbFvgwLvBLfW/VfJ6j1KJf2dWuXFqxoFzB1ywHgqYb6XKvsMC oLDkNp3QPZFGFBGWEr3qj9oc6M/7pKpMFdAeWQLiQqVd8Bzxvx+HmSiYETajPQLqsp 8XdCUzEmbKda7FrpuisPiwrg+xeqNQRMf1t3sggx/4Mp1Ga7EX8m3sVO3CLuhzfo9L 86gCKHlv6G9AjY1UTSH6C2KTcUWgGEJiz+wPPuf7Y+uKT2vGhGFTHh6IYRr4TNrsWj YcIY52rfB5TJ+28VActhSCAqOb6dl/x/MWndYnXwcwWUcxO+5Cb2OH8adgjhzSFdH2 iGYmbzXDHeJaw== Message-ID: <20171216011614.Horde.Uitm74qhBEwh_NRo9RgDgu3@webmail.leidinger.net> From: Alexander Leidinger To: blubee blubeeme Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Horde Application Framework 5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_7XoUuK4lAPmTCrUSvEO8G7B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 00:17:01 -0000 This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed. --=_7XoUuK4lAPmTCrUSvEO8G7B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoting blubee blubeeme (from Fri, 15 Dec 2017=20=20 22:39:25=20+0800): > What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand whic= h > is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that > sticks to the OSS standard. > > There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on > FreeBSD. You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you react Can you please describe in features / bullet-points what is missing=20=20 instead=20of saying "X is better than Y"? > like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying co= de. > > Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and if > they are not, they can still be added. What I understand what you say is: - I want to replace X by Y, because Y is better. - Anything what is better in X can be added to Y. So basically I understand that you want to replace incomplete=20=20 feature-set=20in X by an incomplete feature-set from Y (without knowing=20= =20 what=20the incompleteness in either X or Y is). > I'd really appreciate it if you refrained from your continued attempts at > ad hominem against me and stick to code and a discussion around ideas and > implementations. I understand HPS as asking you to explain in different words what you=20=20 want=20to tell, as he is not understanding what you want to tell. To my=20= =20 knowledge=20HPS is not a native english speaker (neither am I). I don't=20= =20 know=20if you are a native english speaker or not. As a person working in a multi-language (at least 10, with english=20=20 being=20the common one) environment I suggest not getting upset about=20=20 phrases=20like "I don't understand your english", it doesn't necessarily=20= =20 mean=20a deficit on the receiver side of this phrase, but most often=20=20 just=20means both ends don't share the same language background. Often=20= =20 it=20helps in such situations to switch from implicit ("it") references=20= =20 to=20explicitly mention an item/feature/object/... and to use short=20=20 phrases. And=20to bring in some technical info (parts of "AFAIR", I may misremember.= ..): - The OSS code in FreeBSD was at some point in time the 4Front OSS code. - At some point 4Front closed-source their implementation and=20=20 FreeBSD=20deviated. - At some point Ariff put in an effort to advance the OSS code in=20=20 FreeBSD=20which made it the best in various aspects (one of them=20=20 latency)=20when compared to 4Front code, Windows, MacOS and Linux ALSA. - Then in 2006 Ryan was adding OSSv4-API compatibility to the=20=20 FreeBSD=20sound code as part of the Google Summer of Code, mentored by=20= =20 Ariff=20and me. - Since then I don't remember big API changes/improvements... HPS=20=20 worked=20a lot on USB audio support, userland drivers and AFAIK some=20=20 MIDI=20stuff as part of the userland drivers, but all that is more or=20=20 less=20drivers, not API... please correct me if I got this wrong; and=20=20 mav(?)=20worked on HDA support (also driver, not API). Note, various aspects of the FreeBSD sound code can be tweaked by=20=20 sysctls,=20e.g. latency, virtual channels, direct physical access=20=20 ("bitperfect"),=20automatic resampling, equilizer, ... (see "sysctl=20=20 hw.snd=20dev.pcm dev.hdaa dev.hdac" and "man sound snd_hda snd_uaudio"=20= =20 and=20the SOUND_4.TXT of Ariff you mentioned). And regarding your comment about SOUND4.TXT: if you read this document=20= =20 carefully,=20you will notice that the part you quoted as being bad can=20= =20 be=20disabled. Bye, Alexander. --=20 http://www.Leidinger.net=20Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF --=_7XoUuK4lAPmTCrUSvEO8G7B Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: Digitale PGP-Signatur Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAABAgAGBQJaNGXOAAoJEKrxQhqFIICEodAP/j/Uy6P9XFb3Z1vVhQmGddiG uUgmSKbsSFT+651BGR+QysLzqvSTs7S0B8fSgA6AcX31t2ckP8pJh95Osh36VPSK xs70BumL39Li/io2AxRYw5zw2JAt4i4Sxv6L7/m5JsKJGhSxKK6jlMAI3n0PA/Dm w5+6oSmTqe/24gNmKRzDUMqGaDv2XACEXJhusLNNVQn+B8aSzGpRJNuLOSxX7vLG VSAd1fYpP8MnHdKCpPoyyOpXGI8BmAtQzQlYU39mG9hQ3oyf36J6pw+3TXUhPE5I L6S4SJAzucDkEIAddV9zKegpZybWhbkR6kt2iuWu9ASCCqDJtKSohla1H+bnsTS0 x7fYrj73FGBFUyc40YmyXNg/nbvZsRTgb5xaldfBWwCphFE2oMRwnRndCcZz4a5A b5eLwps5LjCRKhg5ci175ncBGdp+1CxmDTgf/3iPgDeHOz+pCFU+CJfrluIWlGKb 2usOm99eiatBDOHh3/OzBXyEt8OGKH/Wlhrg2I7Lltbj0o1JXnsANvrsZcf2gKsB t1dVPKAHQyNmOdjMv/Rhfo4EpIZcfDgfOD0bC3UvUI+Ls7EeAoTeqz8XYmjNfNEo 51O4aiftmRse8o61ttZUNnNqau5eT0pspx/XireOjrWVaIVUBzMc65h7OLMOaEt1 bcM1LpIfIsxUEO00EnMB =PzLH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_7XoUuK4lAPmTCrUSvEO8G7B-- From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 01:39:07 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31881E93577 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:39:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x234.google.com (mail-it0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAD3A6F462 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:39:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x234.google.com with SMTP id o130so202482itg.0 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:39:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=oMRFJ8Zk6Hb4z8GiJL1+eJJzdOq63K6ST6BysM13mVM=; b=MICg5Ch8FSSCVEjsNht3/tgufIQokoz4h488883FPWBcsgqJmQUZ/5LzGDQAaQK2CP ZXl5BXRpjzzxJJStNIUEXIJiRiVBw0TavIf5izBI2EDmig4K1fTiMuHMGHSe3I95Lkqr HbRjaz4FeW03KHEhH49qciphR4tYXlOmplyo8kPrsUBDPMTxUkcABEbNmR8+H0fxVa4N PQ+onDgWrVRgtW5i6Juj1qyD5F985GKPc2y8hj3+9rneX98rnxuQbwR9kMDL8tFA0+Kv HUlGA88Yf5MKO4tOSDj4YB9aqqnZfFfaqG6yO32cJipR3PcRWIdPEQe28APJbwArXt6Z 69Dg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oMRFJ8Zk6Hb4z8GiJL1+eJJzdOq63K6ST6BysM13mVM=; b=MsM1mvKDtb+vHGp8D0D6xLxXvm59wrjUWq2cbhRNkodyoHTzGEHjbGGYm+3Xf1LyPy FaO2bZh9JDn7KmuEE0xc5ic7bdU3rnssXvxxtMX/HrMU+WHiQk1qjCuckEmcTw5ugy57 qpWpBpUhXMxtQbZwO+eCIV0C8RRSFo+LLg52xA4RUZKfIp1y9uC2bximcccwtw/ROM0i 3o7cKqbM/tciOF99dnMKx+DBYWy8MjUS49hCX6zLYIICMOCCAYJ9QdowHbVy+nfrvjh8 oiaBhrcD6limeYXjSNIFCrvLCftPCvSuPvyzgPixJujjmMp/ciANwjdYMeW87unM0lDk 0vxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIuQvWse9KAMnR63uBvEvz6lklPHxcQ+Yw9xpSxZVPZW6PUJFvj ljgUwVeRl6ZbY9cdFHCkUyBh511t4KmM0XY/m225aTRP X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotOBWfHt9lB23KaxrAPYtDZwmQRfphhuu4nOfydJI/UaD+goCpku/UnL/ER3FwFifpOtsya/Mt9j7PjN5nC/pI= X-Received: by 10.36.221.147 with SMTP id t141mr10766015itf.140.1513388345836; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:39:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.9 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:39:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171216011614.Horde.Uitm74qhBEwh_NRo9RgDgu3@webmail.leidinger.net> References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> <20171216011614.Horde.Uitm74qhBEwh_NRo9RgDgu3@webmail.leidinger.net> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 09:39:04 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:39:07 -0000 On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Alexander Leidinger < Alexander@leidinger.net> wrote: > Quoting blubee blubeeme (from Fri, 15 Dec 2017 > 22:39:25 +0800): > > What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand which >> is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that >> sticks to the OSS standard. >> >> There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on >> FreeBSD. You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you react >> > > Can you please describe in features / bullet-points what is missing > instead of saying "X is better than Y"? > > like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying >> code. >> >> Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and if >> they are not, they can still be added. >> > > What I understand what you say is: > - I want to replace X by Y, because Y is better. > - Anything what is better in X can be added to Y. > > So basically I understand that you want to replace incomplete feature-set > in X by an incomplete feature-set from Y (without knowing what the > incompleteness in either X or Y is). There's no incomplete "feature" what I am saying is the changes made for compatibility brought forward legacy application bugs. When you update to clang 4 and a lot of your code breaks because they use depreciated coding standards, do you patch clang or do you fix your software? Why is this so hard for you guys to understand? > > > I'd really appreciate it if you refrained from your continued attempts at >> ad hominem against me and stick to code and a discussion around ideas and >> implementations. >> > > I understand HPS as asking you to explain in different words what you want > to tell, as he is not understanding what you want to tell. To my knowledge > HPS is not a native english speaker (neither am I). I don't know if you are > a native english speaker or not. > As a person working in a multi-language (at least 10, with english being > the common one) environment I suggest not getting upset about phrases like > "I don't understand your english", it doesn't necessarily mean a deficit on > the receiver side of this phrase, but most often just means both ends don't > share the same language background. Often it helps in such situations to > switch from implicit ("it") references to explicitly mention an > item/feature/object/... and to use short phrases. > > And to bring in some technical info (parts of "AFAIR", I may > misremember...): > - The OSS code in FreeBSD was at some point in time the 4Front OSS code. > - At some point 4Front closed-source their implementation and FreeBSD > deviated. > - At some point Ariff put in an effort to advance the OSS code in FreeBSD > which made it the best in various aspects (one of them latency) when > compared to 4Front code, Windows, MacOS and Linux ALSA. > - Then in 2006 Ryan was adding OSSv4-API compatibility to the FreeBSD > sound code as part of the Google Summer of Code, mentored by Ariff and me. > - Since then I don't remember big API changes/improvements... HPS worked > a lot on USB audio support, userland drivers and AFAIK some MIDI stuff as > part of the userland drivers, but all that is more or less drivers, not > API... please correct me if I got this wrong; and mav(?) worked on HDA > support (also driver, not API). > I posted a link below as a reference and some reasons why those changes were not a good idea. The whole point of ossv4 was to implement simpler API and depreciate legacy audio application coding styles. > > Note, various aspects of the FreeBSD sound code can be tweaked by sysctls, > e.g. latency, virtual channels, direct physical access ("bitperfect"), > automatic resampling, equilizer, ... (see "sysctl hw.snd dev.pcm dev.hdaa > dev.hdac" and "man sound snd_hda snd_uaudio" and the SOUND_4.TXT of Ariff > you mentioned). > > And regarding your comment about SOUND4.TXT: if you read this document > carefully, you will notice that the part you quoted as being bad can be > disabled. > It's not about being bad and can be disabled, if the API is still there then people will copy old coding practices guaranteeing that newer audio applications are still plagued by the crud from legacy audio API. So you leave that stuff there, with FreeBSD providing NO documentation/ tutorials/ example programs of how to write decent sound applications. A dev comes along and copies some code from an older application and brings forward all the legacy coding practices, but sure they use JACK audio, it seems to run okay, now you try to port the application to FreeBSD, the sound quality is bad or it's janky oh, FreeBSD sucks at audio. > > Bye, > Alexander. > > -- > http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF > http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF > Hi, On 12/15/17 15:39, blubee blubeeme wrote: > I'd appreciate it if you kept the discussion on sound and improve your > English comprehension. > See below. I gave one example of a Chromium bug where they said they'd accept an OSS > patch. I did not say janky audio in Chromium have anything to do with why I > think OSS is a better choice for the default audio system. > Can you explain again using technical terms: 1) Why is 4Front's OSSv4 better than the in-base FreeBSD OSSv4? 2) Why do we need native OSSv4 support in Chromium? 3) Why can't we use the library provided by the port at /usr/ports/audio/alsa-lib to implement audio support in Chromium? You've made that assumption in this thread numerous times and I've ignored > it because I wouldn't expect someone to be that dense. > Can you expand the word "that" in the sentence above? What are you referring to? I see no connection :-( It doesn't make sense because you fail to understand English, that's not my > fault. > If you want to get a message through on this list keep it simple and stupid, KISS, for a start. I'm sorry my comment about your English was seen as a personal attack, "ad hominem". That was not my intention. > I have been porting synth tools to FreeBSD and I'd like to continue to port > the software, implementing OSS backends for them based on the current > upstream I am running into errors because of these so called "excellent" > features which causes a lot of headache. > Exactly what are the "errors" you refer to in the paragraph above? Can you list them up one by one, including a brief explanation about the problem and the solution the way you see it? What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand which > is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that > sticks to the OSS standard. > Can you give a reference to the claim FreeBSD's OSSv4 is a fork of 4Front's OSS? > There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on > FreeBSD. > Words like "nobody", "noone", "everyone", "everybody" and so on are frequently used to create a conflict. Is that what you are trying to do? > You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you react > like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying code. I'm sorry and I don't understand what you are trying to express in the paragraph above. Who are you addressing in the paragraph above? Is it me, HPS, or is it the "FreeBSD developers" in general? What do you mean by "underlying code"? The underlying code of what? This is a half of a sentence in my opinion! these "clever" developers > Who are the "clever" developers you refer to? Can you list their names? Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and if > they are not, they can still be added. > OSS4 what? Again, please expand the sentences so that I and others reading this list understand better what you actually mean. When I'm reading: "most of the clever features in OSS4" , it can mean multiple things. Either you refer to OSS4 as 4Front's opensound code, or OSS4 means the OSS4 IOCTL API for interfacing with audio character devices. What do you mean? Do you mean the smart features are in 4Front's opensound code or do you mean all the smart features are in the OSS4 IOCTL API? I'd really appreciate it if you refrained from your continued attempts at > ad hominem against me and stick to code and a discussion around ideas and > implementations. > Try to put in a few more words when explaining technical things in this thread. Try to limit the scope of what you are trying to say. I've tried as best as I can to point out where our communication stalls. This is not meant as a personal attack. Again, I'm having a hard time trying to fully understand what you mean or maybe someone else on this list will understand you better. @Hans Forget that I said anything about Chromium, this is a lot lower level than any specific application. The whole point of implementing 4Front oss and not a FreeBSD for is to K.I.S.S. Here's why 1)OSS v4 soundcard.h and code already hdandles ALL legacy applications w/o needing to implement special kernel kludges 2)OSS v4 API docs explain how NOT to keep programming in the legacy style that causes jank audio The main way this was accomplished was by removing the exclusive access to the sound hardware, this link: https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT hw.snd.vpc_mixer_bypass (default=1, enabled) OSSv4 Compatibility: Mostly, but we did it a 'better' way, like providing a special bypass mode for legacy applications. This linuxism literally carried forward all the bugs from the past, 4Front oss handles this transparently, no need for these types of switches since they'll allow devs to carry forward their bad programming habits. If you update to the latest version of 4Front oss, this is handled, no need to main the code behind this stuff. ----- ----- dev.pcm.X.[play|rec].vchanmode (default=depends...) 'fixed' or '0': The good old mode. Channel mixing is done using fixed format/rate. Digital passthrough or other advanced operations will not work in this mode (consider it as a 'legacy' mode). For hardware channels that doesn't support digital formats, this is the default mode. 'passthrough' or '1': Channel mixing is done using fixed format/rate, but advanced operations such as digital passthrough or 'Exclusive Access' (#6 down below) will start working. All channels should produce sound as usual until there is a request for a digital format playback, which in this case will 'mute' other channels and let the latest incoming digital format pass through undisturbed. Multiple / concurrent digital streams are supported, but the LATEST stream will take precedence and mute all other streams. 'adaptive' or '2': Advanced mode. Works like much like'passthrough' mode, but is a bit smarter, especially for multiple pcm channels with different format/rate. Whenever a new channel is about to start, it will scan the entire list of virtual channels and decide which format/rate is the best (mostly, the higher/bigger). This will ensure that the quality of mixing depends on the best of all channels. The (bad) side effect of this mode is that the hardware DMA needs to be restarted and might cause annoying pops/clicks, but for a long running playback, this issue might be acceptable. Any changes for current format/rate can be seen through the output of sysctl dev.pcm.[play|rev].vchan[format|rate]. OSSv4 Compatibility: 4front OSS incapable of doing this magic. There's nothing K.I.S.S. about this and again, all this "magic" is what's making audio programming a mess. ----- ----- 5) Bitperfect OSSv4 Compatibility: SNDCTL_DSP_COOKEDMODE is mostly compatible, except that it will handle complex situation with vchans enabled 'better' compared to 4front OSS. Again "better" compared to 4front oss, how so? ----- ----- 6) Exclusive Access OSSv4 Compatibility: This feature is mostly compatible with OSSv4, except that 4front OSS prevents all other applications from running (stalled/halted, other unknown grave effects) if any sound device being accessed in a such way. FreeBSD does this smartly on top of the Transparent / Adaptive Virtual Channel. This is the main issue and a cause for so many sound systems. If this isn't removed and have those applications use legacy mode of the default 4Front soundcard.h and follow better codinig practices into the future, no amount of sound architecture rewrite will help. This bypass is what lead to ALSA, JACK v1-v2, and Pulse, which still don't solve the problem of janky audio. This isn't a feature it's a bug. audio/virtual_oss doesn't make up for that. ----- You guys say I am claiming that X is better than Y, maybe you should read the reference link that I shared above. 4Front oss already has a soundcard.h file that implements and support all the legacy applications, they could've ripped that code out but left it there for compatibility. Read the warnings about legacy audio applications and why ossv4 was implemented the way it was: http://manuals.opensound.com/developer/ossapi.html What part of this setup looks simple: http://i39.tinypic.com/adfdwz.png?w=240 And I would really like to ask, all the people replying in this thread how many actually make music? The biggest reason to implement the official 4front oss is like hans said above Keep It Simple Stupid. From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 01:47:00 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61681E93EA2 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:47:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x22d.google.com (mail-it0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E3496FD45 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:47:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id u62so22740027ita.2 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=egRC+ByeEPTrCwbEf1AOb9V6H9xmJWj5/OjEH9bID7E=; b=dU3S481jVzVSWOYBj/CN0SeyKc1AMgtJxj/rBQRi4LpPsk3wuADb6GTaqrTkgk9p0X iLAT2YaC6lTQPwakc33Xoz3/csUkRC5f2pN9QgX1o4Mg6DwWjvyF2W1/S0WDUi91zuEQ BM2x7PvDySnt+kSQEUtJswRq4ix9BzGmvDAjb4csvIjVptpYTxOucuONUOuls+l8Zyqi zgdAWq92ngFy0B5szl3g5mxeggyeZWIF+9nCGxV2Rs64NC/98eZLp7NTxJP0rLORMqWA ldSDrTnxqbqrC7lZBihSS2rCxpC2Gys5P5fJoPZr13z4e9xAnHyfX5t6iXwTdtuN3AOy 2tzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=egRC+ByeEPTrCwbEf1AOb9V6H9xmJWj5/OjEH9bID7E=; b=G7KEfNS1qyPZtNdT0GUzEgX11amLCICjVH/6wo173OYOr1jjWIoUtFaJL+ji3k9vCR iYj7tyDkt06dce10S4Cf+n7Qkh6EQe06NQ/osrTvuny9dYZ/+wu4U2TEfNkEQBQBhVxe yrZ6hzNN47tufmwpr1csdJEmso8gEQNUemNOKWsriz5axfKiVLN94vJ4hzfGBhQETltD dwrfpaChoz5GoSShpoq/Yezw3G/Y3oQwrGJ4clPiLxGP8KBBJU1Efia6M7CB2kg0fguL HXKa3GFqJI2RKZKoSKjRaVFsI7wVa48IyWZRIT3RIesJmX2tvAObcALMvuWgYoJjMnOE J0pg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKRdGRwr3KcWGxJGDpoAr7npOezjk+b+Qjv4KVnpb5A/ZumVRVm MoQF1o992MKXcTf/k4r7l/SJxkrUzpLpVOH0eJ8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovOvVKkZUbwHt9/gi0Vz1auBXP1GlSq+VvJ7GmcbdGFP0Xizk8hUJdyvYsHb9j+k2nE1IOXfvT7RERa8jSNqGU= X-Received: by 10.36.167.77 with SMTP id s13mr11266863iti.51.1513388819304; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:46:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.9 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:46:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> <20171216011614.Horde.Uitm74qhBEwh_NRo9RgDgu3@webmail.leidinger.net> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 09:46:58 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 01:47:00 -0000 On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 9:39 AM, blubee blubeeme wrote: > > > On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Alexander Leidinger < > Alexander@leidinger.net> wrote: > >> Quoting blubee blubeeme (from Fri, 15 Dec 2017 >> 22:39:25 +0800): >> >> What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand which >>> is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that >>> sticks to the OSS standard. >>> >>> There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on >>> FreeBSD. You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you react >>> >> >> Can you please describe in features / bullet-points what is missing >> instead of saying "X is better than Y"? >> >> like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying >>> code. >>> >>> Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and if >>> they are not, they can still be added. >>> >> >> What I understand what you say is: >> - I want to replace X by Y, because Y is better. >> - Anything what is better in X can be added to Y. >> >> So basically I understand that you want to replace incomplete feature-set >> in X by an incomplete feature-set from Y (without knowing what the >> incompleteness in either X or Y is). > > There's no incomplete "feature" what I am saying is the changes made for > compatibility brought forward legacy application bugs. > When you update to clang 4 and a lot of your code breaks because they use > depreciated coding standards, do you patch clang or > do you fix your software? > > Why is this so hard for you guys to understand? > >> >> >> I'd really appreciate it if you refrained from your continued attempts at >>> ad hominem against me and stick to code and a discussion around ideas and >>> implementations. >>> >> >> I understand HPS as asking you to explain in different words what you >> want to tell, as he is not understanding what you want to tell. To my >> knowledge HPS is not a native english speaker (neither am I). I don't know >> if you are a native english speaker or not. >> As a person working in a multi-language (at least 10, with english being >> the common one) environment I suggest not getting upset about phrases like >> "I don't understand your english", it doesn't necessarily mean a deficit on >> the receiver side of this phrase, but most often just means both ends don't >> share the same language background. Often it helps in such situations to >> switch from implicit ("it") references to explicitly mention an >> item/feature/object/... and to use short phrases. > > >> >> And to bring in some technical info (parts of "AFAIR", I may >> misremember...): >> - The OSS code in FreeBSD was at some point in time the 4Front OSS code. >> - At some point 4Front closed-source their implementation and FreeBSD >> deviated. >> - At some point Ariff put in an effort to advance the OSS code in >> FreeBSD which made it the best in various aspects (one of them latency) >> when compared to 4Front code, Windows, MacOS and Linux ALSA. >> - Then in 2006 Ryan was adding OSSv4-API compatibility to the FreeBSD >> sound code as part of the Google Summer of Code, mentored by Ariff and me. >> - Since then I don't remember big API changes/improvements... HPS worked >> a lot on USB audio support, userland drivers and AFAIK some MIDI stuff as >> part of the userland drivers, but all that is more or less drivers, not >> API... please correct me if I got this wrong; and mav(?) worked on HDA >> support (also driver, not API). >> > I posted a link below as a reference and some reasons why those changes > were not a good idea. > The whole point of ossv4 was to implement simpler API and depreciate > legacy audio application coding styles. > >> >> Note, various aspects of the FreeBSD sound code can be tweaked by >> sysctls, e.g. latency, virtual channels, direct physical access >> ("bitperfect"), automatic resampling, equilizer, ... (see "sysctl hw.snd >> dev.pcm dev.hdaa dev.hdac" and "man sound snd_hda snd_uaudio" and the >> SOUND_4.TXT of Ariff you mentioned). >> >> And regarding your comment about SOUND4.TXT: if you read this document >> carefully, you will notice that the part you quoted as being bad can be >> disabled. >> > It's not about being bad and can be disabled, if the API is still there > then people will copy old coding practices guaranteeing that newer audio > applications > are still plagued by the crud from legacy audio API. > > So you leave that stuff there, with FreeBSD providing NO documentation/ > tutorials/ example programs of how to write decent sound applications. > A dev comes along and copies some code from an older application and > brings forward all the legacy coding practices, but sure they use JACK > audio, > it seems to run okay, now you try to port the application to FreeBSD, the > sound quality is bad or it's janky oh, FreeBSD sucks at audio. > >> >> Bye, >> Alexander. >> >> -- >> http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF >> http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF >> > > Hi, > > On 12/15/17 15:39, blubee blubeeme wrote: > >> I'd appreciate it if you kept the discussion on sound and improve your >> English comprehension. >> > > See below. > > I gave one example of a Chromium bug where they said they'd accept an OSS >> patch. I did not say janky audio in Chromium have anything to do with why >> I >> think OSS is a better choice for the default audio system. >> > > Can you explain again using technical terms: > > 1) Why is 4Front's OSSv4 better than the in-base FreeBSD OSSv4? > > 2) Why do we need native OSSv4 support in Chromium? > > 3) Why can't we use the library provided by the port at > /usr/ports/audio/alsa-lib to implement audio support in Chromium? > > You've made that assumption in this thread numerous times and I've ignored >> it because I wouldn't expect someone to be that dense. >> > > Can you expand the word "that" in the sentence above? What are you > referring to? I see no connection :-( > > It doesn't make sense because you fail to understand English, that's not my >> fault. >> > > If you want to get a message through on this list keep it simple and > stupid, KISS, for a start. I'm sorry my comment about your English was seen > as a personal attack, "ad hominem". That was not my intention. > > >> I have been porting synth tools to FreeBSD and I'd like to continue to >> port >> the software, implementing OSS backends for them based on the current >> upstream I am running into errors because of these so called "excellent" >> features which causes a lot of headache. >> > > Exactly what are the "errors" you refer to in the paragraph above? Can you > list them up one by one, including a brief explanation about the problem > and the solution the way you see it? > > What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand which >> is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that >> sticks to the OSS standard. >> > > Can you give a reference to the claim FreeBSD's OSSv4 is a fork of > 4Front's OSS? > > >> There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on >> FreeBSD. >> > > Words like "nobody", "noone", "everyone", "everybody" and so on are > frequently used to create a conflict. Is that what you are trying to do? > > > You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you react > > like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying > code. > > I'm sorry and I don't understand what you are trying to express in the > paragraph above. Who are you addressing in the paragraph above? Is it me, > HPS, or is it the "FreeBSD developers" in general? > > What do you mean by "underlying code"? The underlying code of what? This > is a half of a sentence in my opinion! > > these "clever" developers >> > > Who are the "clever" developers you refer to? Can you list their names? > > Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and if >> they are not, they can still be added. >> > > OSS4 what? Again, please expand the sentences so that I and others reading > this list understand better what you actually mean. When I'm reading: "most > of the clever features in OSS4" , it can mean multiple things. Either you > refer to OSS4 as 4Front's opensound code, or OSS4 means the OSS4 IOCTL API > for interfacing with audio character devices. What do you mean? Do you mean > the smart features are in 4Front's opensound code or do you mean all the > smart features are in the OSS4 IOCTL API? > > I'd really appreciate it if you refrained from your continued attempts at >> ad hominem against me and stick to code and a discussion around ideas and >> implementations. >> > > Try to put in a few more words when explaining technical things in this > thread. Try to limit the scope of what you are trying to say. I've tried as > best as I can to point out where our communication stalls. This is not > meant as a personal attack. Again, I'm having a hard time trying to fully > understand what you mean or maybe someone else on this list will understand > you better. > > @Hans > Forget that I said anything about Chromium, this is a lot lower level than > any specific application. > > The whole point of implementing 4Front oss and not a FreeBSD for is to > K.I.S.S. > Here's why > 1)OSS v4 soundcard.h and code already hdandles ALL legacy applications w/o > needing to implement special kernel kludges > 2)OSS v4 API docs explain how NOT to keep programming in the legacy style > that causes jank audio > The main way this was accomplished was by removing the exclusive access > to the sound hardware, > this > > link: https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT > > hw.snd.vpc_mixer_bypass (default=1, enabled) > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > Mostly, but we did it a 'better' way, like providing a special > bypass mode for legacy applications. > > This linuxism literally carried forward all the bugs from the past, 4Front > oss handles this transparently, no need for these types of switches since > they'll allow devs to carry forward their bad programming habits. > > If you update to the latest version of 4Front oss, this is handled, no > need to main the code behind this stuff. > ----- > > ----- > > dev.pcm.X.[play|rec].vchanmode (default=depends...) > 'fixed' or '0': > The good old mode. Channel mixing is done using fixed > format/rate. Digital passthrough or other advanced operations > will not work in this mode (consider it as a 'legacy' mode). > For hardware channels that doesn't support digital formats, this > is the default mode. > > 'passthrough' or '1': > Channel mixing is done using fixed format/rate, but advanced > operations such as digital passthrough or 'Exclusive Access' > (#6 down below) will start working. All channels should > produce sound as usual until there is a request for a digital > format playback, which in this case will 'mute' other channels > and let the latest incoming digital format pass through > undisturbed. Multiple / concurrent digital streams are > supported, but the LATEST stream will take precedence and > mute all other streams. > > 'adaptive' or '2': > Advanced mode. Works like much like'passthrough' mode, but is > a bit smarter, especially for multiple pcm channels with > different format/rate. Whenever a new channel is about to start, > it will scan the entire list of virtual channels and decide which > format/rate is the best (mostly, the higher/bigger). This will > ensure that the quality of mixing depends on the best of all > channels. The (bad) side effect of this mode is that the > hardware DMA needs to be restarted and might cause annoying > pops/clicks, but for a long running playback, this issue > might be acceptable. Any changes for current format/rate can > be seen through the output of sysctl > dev.pcm.[play|rev].vchan[format|rate]. > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > 4front OSS incapable of doing this magic. > > There's nothing K.I.S.S. about this and again, all this "magic" is what's > making audio programming a mess. > ----- > > ----- > > 5) Bitperfect > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > SNDCTL_DSP_COOKEDMODE is mostly compatible, except that it will handle > complex situation with vchans enabled 'better' compared to 4front OSS. > > Again "better" compared to 4front oss, how so? > ----- > > ----- > > 6) Exclusive Access > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > This feature is mostly compatible with OSSv4, except that 4front OSS > prevents all other applications from running (stalled/halted, other > unknown grave effects) if any sound device being accessed in a such > way. FreeBSD does this smartly on top of the Transparent / Adaptive > Virtual Channel. > > This is the main issue and a cause for so many sound systems. If this > isn't removed and have those applications use legacy mode of the default > 4Front soundcard.h and follow better codinig practices into the future, no > amount of sound architecture rewrite will help. > > This bypass is what lead to ALSA, JACK v1-v2, and Pulse, which still don't > solve the problem of janky audio. This isn't a feature it's a bug. > audio/virtual_oss doesn't make up for that. > ----- > > You guys say I am claiming that X is better than Y, maybe you should read > the reference link that I shared above. > > 4Front oss already has a soundcard.h file that implements and support all > the legacy applications, they could've ripped that code out but left it > there for compatibility. > > Read the warnings about legacy audio applications and why ossv4 was > implemented the way it was: http://manuals.opensound.com/ > developer/ossapi.html > > What part of this setup looks simple: http://i39.tinypic. > com/adfdwz.png?w=240 > > And I would really like to ask, all the people replying in this thread how > many actually make music? > > The biggest reason to implement the official 4front oss is like hans said > above > Keep It Simple Stupid. > What would be easier, trying to update FreeBSD sound and patching around 4Front oss or maintaining these eight files? Source Explanation FreeBSD/os_freebsd.h OS specific definitions for FreeBSD FreeBSD/bsddefs.h Definitions for routines and variables exported by osscore.c FreeBSD/os_freebsd.c Operating system abstraction functions for FreeBSDFiles used to build OSS and the drivers during install Source Explanation FreeBSD/bsdvirtual.inc Wrapper functions for virtual drivers under FreeBSD FreeBSD/osscore.c OSS core functions that need to be compiled in the target system FreeBSD/module.inc Generic OSS driver module interface for FreeBSD FreeBSD/devid.h Source file os_build/FreeBSD/devid.h FreeBSD/bsdpci.inc Wrapper functions for PCI drivers under FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 11:09:14 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EA6FEA3DE5 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15CF980981 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 11CA5EA3DE4; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:14 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7A4EA3DE3 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E36E280980 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBGB9DKB002484 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:13 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 224260] [patch] audio/grip Update to 3.6.2 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:13 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: needs-qa, patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Only Me X-Bugzilla-Who: riggs@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Status: Open X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: riggs@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: maintainer-feedback+ X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: keywords bug_status assigned_to flagtypes.name cc Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:09:14 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D224260 Thomas Zander changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keywords| |needs-qa Status|New |Open Assignee|multimedia@FreeBSD.org |riggs@FreeBSD.org Flags|maintainer-feedback?(multim |maintainer-feedback+ |edia@FreeBSD.org) | CC| |riggs@FreeBSD.org --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 13:11:37 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3607E8203E for ; 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[67.220.9.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3sm5026177itk.19.2017.12.16.05.11.25 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 16 Dec 2017 05:11:35 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: youngluc@gmail.com To: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org From: Lucas Young Subject: webcamd-4.12.0.1 segfault when using WinTV-HV-950Q Message-ID: <63966a1d-1244-4ea0-0bf8-15b485f63cd4@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 07:10:56 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:11:37 -0000 I am trying to get my WinTV-HV-950Q working on FreeBSD. I am running into, apparently, the same problem as described in the following link which is from this list about two years ago. [Hauppauge WinTV HVR 950Q](https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2015-June/016273.html) This one sounds similar as well. [FreeBSD-10.3 and WinTV HVR-950Q](https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2016-December/017525.html) Unfortunately, it does not appear that the solution to either of those previous issues was posted to the list so hoping that there is someone who is willing to rehash this for me. In short, webcamd is crashing with a segfault the first time that it is run. If it is run again, it usually starts but then consumes 100% of one CPU core. I have included the particulars from my system below. Note that I have already compiled webcamd from ports with the DEBUG turned on. I am not proficient in C or in using gdb so I need some help to know what to check next. # uname -mrs FreeBSD 11.1-RELEASE-p4 amd64 # pkg info -x webcamd webcamd-4.12.0.1 # md5 /boot/modules/dvb-fe-xc5000-1.6.114.fw MD5 (/boot/modules/dvb-fe-xc5000-1.6.114.fw) = b1ac8f759020523ebaaeff3fdf4789ed # usbconfig ugen4.1: at usbus4, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=FULL (12Mbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) ugen0.1: <0x1022 XHCI root HUB> at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=SUPER (5.0Gbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) ugen5.1: at usbus5, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) ugen2.1: at usbus2, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=FULL (12Mbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) ugen3.1: at usbus3, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) ugen1.1: <0x1022 XHCI root HUB> at usbus1, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=SUPER (5.0Gbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) ugen3.2: at usbus3, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) # usbconfig -d 0.2 dump_device_desc ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) p wr=ON (500mA) bLength = 0x0012 bDescriptorType = 0x0001 bcdUSB = 0x0200 bDeviceClass = 0x0000 bDeviceSubClass = 0x0000 bDeviceProtocol = 0x0000 bMaxPacketSize0 = 0x0040 idVendor = 0x2040 idProduct = 0x7200 bcdDevice = 0x0005 iManufacturer = 0x0001 iProduct = 0x0002 iSerialNumber = 0x000a bNumConfigurations = 0x0001 # cat /boot/loader.conf kern.geom.label.disk_ident.enable="0" kern.geom.label.gptid.enable="0" vfs.zfs.min_auto_ashift=12 zfs_load="YES" cuse_load="YES" # sysrc -a autofs_enable: YES dbus_enable: NO dumpdev: AUTO hald_enable: NO jackd_enable: NO mountd_enable: YES mountd_flags: -r moused_enable: NO mythbackend_enable: YES nfs_server_enable: YES ntpd_enable: YES powerd_enable: YES rpc_lockd_enable: YES rpc_statd_enable: YES rpcbind_enable: YES sshd_enable: YES webcamd_0_flags: -N Hauppauge-WinTV-HVR-950 -S unknown webcamd_1_flags: -N Chicony-Electronics-Co--Ltd--HP-Truevision-HD -S 0x0001 webcamd_enable: YES zfs_enable: YES When the host boots I find that the cuse module is loaded, there is a coredump in /, and dmesg indicates that it "exited on signal 11" during the boot. # kldstat Id Refs Address Size Name 1 17 0xffffffff80200000 1f67a88 kernel 2 1 0xffffffff82169000 316708 zfs.ko 3 2 0xffffffff82480000 cb78 opensolaris.ko 4 1 0xffffffff8248d000 e690 cuse.ko 5 1 0xffffffff82a31000 10913 snd_uaudio.ko # dmesg ... uaudio0 on uhub3 uaudio0: on usbus0 uaudio0: No playback. uaudio0: Record: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: No MIDI sequencer. pcm2: on uaudio0 uaudio0: No HID volume keys found. pid 99972 (webcamd), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) ... # gdb $(which webcamd) /webcamd.core GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. Type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB. Type "show warranty" for details. This GDB was configured as "amd64-marcel-freebsd"... Core was generated by '/usr/local/sbin/webcamd -i 0 -d ugen0.2 -B -U webcamd -G webcamd'. Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. Reading symbols from /usr/local/lib/libhal.so...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/local/lib/libhal.so Reading symbols from /usr/local/lib/libdbus-1.so...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/local/lib/libdbus-1.so Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libusb.so.3...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libusb.so.3 Reading symbols from /lib/libthr.so.3...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libthr.so.3 Reading symbols from /lib/libutil.so.9...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libutil.so.9 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libcuse.so.1...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libcuse.so.1 Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.7...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.7 Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libexecinfo.so.1...done. Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libexecinfo.so.1 Reading symbols from /lib/libelf.so.2...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libelf.so.2 Reading symbols from /lib/libgcc_s.so.1...done. Loaded symbols for /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 Reading symbols from /libexec/ld-elf.so.1...done. Loaded symbols for /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 #0 0x0000000000414e32 in timer_exec (arg=0x0) at kernel/linux_timer.c:142 142 TAILQ_REMOVE(&timer_head, t, entry); (gdb) bt #0 0x0000000000414e32 in timer_exec (arg=0x0) at kernel/linux_timer.c:142 #1 0x00000008014c7bc5 in pthread_create () from /lib/libthr.so.3 #2 0x0000000000000000 in ?? () Current language: auto; currently minimal (gdb) p &timer_head $1 = (struct timer_head *) 0xccee78 (gdb) p t $2 = (struct timer_list *) 0x802843130 Can someone point me in the direction of what to check next? -- Luke From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 13:34:36 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE0DE82885 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:34:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mailgate.Leidinger.net (bastille.leidinger.net [89.238.82.207]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03E3863EF2 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:34:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 14:33:49 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1513431266; bh=KfJPvGEKZeh/eCrQV7lxhBF+MxZnHlLZbwRbjBsf4+E=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=0oQDI3YkstA/CYsou+qUfjKsK2B6+zZYdCQzATvdOy0NnXnqv09JMpXGYsPqsOhIz QJLQhBTPVUn8rIE8yn3OCSFucCgh9Lc7LvZOo3PyiEIGOiCdl3NA0smX+5W9NnTMhG BHkWrJqUCWF6Pir1WPF1iQPRYJiL45Q/EbgozBBprvKPRtO5wZbNi3BOdAPuCmbyNs ixTAqGdHzZ+YLuN9IkfoMO0yzwkyZ7ZRhQFrPAGvOt2omuxg/d80QnBqOxova3/Yfj DkpvDa6HsLAXCQPq/NbWEyVdDzW4mjH9QG76+7zSH9/rnBbS66pKzeUEoMDtVcryYN cPiMbCPQJGbsQ== Message-ID: <20171216143349.Horde.VJOddyv79ydlAmvsvoTRhMP@webmail.leidinger.net> From: Alexander Leidinger To: blubee blubeeme Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> <20171216011614.Horde.Uitm74qhBEwh_NRo9RgDgu3@webmail.leidinger.net> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Horde Application Framework 5 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_K580ClzmmfOP_x0pb-vaMYh"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:34:36 -0000 This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed. --=_K580ClzmmfOP_x0pb-vaMYh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoting blubee blubeeme (from Sat, 16 Dec 2017=20=20 09:39:04=20+0800): > On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Alexander Leidinger < > Alexander@leidinger.net> wrote: > >> Quoting blubee blubeeme (from Fri, 15 Dec 2017 >> 22:39:25 +0800): >> >> What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand whi= ch >>> is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software tha= t >>> sticks to the OSS standard. >>> >>> There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on >>> FreeBSD. You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you rea= ct >>> >> >> Can you please describe in features / bullet-points what is missing >> instead of saying "X is better than Y"? >> >> like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying >>> code. >>> >>> Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and = if >>> they are not, they can still be added. >>> >> >> What I understand what you say is: >> - I want to replace X by Y, because Y is better. >> - Anything what is better in X can be added to Y. >> >> So basically I understand that you want to replace incomplete feature-se= t >> in X by an incomplete feature-set from Y (without knowing what the >> incompleteness in either X or Y is). > > There's no incomplete "feature" what I am saying is the changes made for > compatibility brought forward legacy application bugs. > When you update to clang 4 and a lot of your code breaks because they use > depreciated coding standards, do you patch clang or > do you fix your software? I consider this a bad example. The word "legacy" already implies that=20=20 you=20have a new way of doing things, wheres as comparing clang and gcc=20= =20 is=20not putting a new meaning to the input source code, but=20=20 transforming=20the source code based upon pre-defined rules. And yes, if=20= =20 there=20are cases where the source code which is compiled is wrong, and=20= =20 not=20clang. Regarding the issues you have with "compatibility aspects", I will=20=20 comment=20upon below. >> And to bring in some technical info (parts of "AFAIR", I may >> misremember...): >> - The OSS code in FreeBSD was at some point in time the 4Front OSS code= . >> - At some point 4Front closed-source their implementation and FreeBSD >> deviated. >> - At some point Ariff put in an effort to advance the OSS code in FreeB= SD >> which made it the best in various aspects (one of them latency) when >> compared to 4Front code, Windows, MacOS and Linux ALSA. >> - Then in 2006 Ryan was adding OSSv4-API compatibility to the FreeBSD >> sound code as part of the Google Summer of Code, mentored by Ariff and m= e. >> - Since then I don't remember big API changes/improvements... HPS worke= d >> a lot on USB audio support, userland drivers and AFAIK some MIDI stuff a= s >> part of the userland drivers, but all that is more or less drivers, not >> API... please correct me if I got this wrong; and mav(?) worked on HDA >> support (also driver, not API). >> > I posted a link below as a reference and some reasons why those changes > were not a good idea. > The whole point of ossv4 was to implement simpler API and depreciate lega= cy > audio application coding styles. And we have the OSSv4 (=3D simpler) API, as such we are not different=20=20 from=20an API point of view. >> Note, various aspects of the FreeBSD sound code can be tweaked by sysctl= s, >> e.g. latency, virtual channels, direct physical access ("bitperfect"), >> automatic resampling, equilizer, ... (see "sysctl hw.snd dev.pcm dev.hda= a >> dev.hdac" and "man sound snd_hda snd_uaudio" and the SOUND_4.TXT of Arif= f >> you mentioned). >> >> And regarding your comment about SOUND4.TXT: if you read this document >> carefully, you will notice that the part you quoted as being bad can be >> disabled. >> > It's not about being bad and can be disabled, if the API is still there > then people will copy old coding practices guaranteeing that newer audio > applications > are still plagued by the crud from legacy audio API. So you suggest we remove parts of your sound API? Which ioctls do you=20=20 want=20to remove? > So you leave that stuff there, with FreeBSD providing NO documentation/ > tutorials/ example programs of how to write decent sound applications. As we implement the OSSv4 API, why should we come up with a newly=20=20 written=20documentation of it? > A dev comes along and copies some code from an older application and brin= gs > forward all the legacy coding practices, but sure they use JACK audio, > it seems to run okay, now you try to port the application to FreeBSD, the > sound quality is bad or it's janky oh, FreeBSD sucks at audio. You think that people target FreeBSD with audio applications? I wish=20=20 this=20were true. Normally an application is written for Linux, and then=20= =20 someone=20tries to make it work on FreeBSD. It then all depends upon the=20= =20 skills=20of the person trying to make it work on FreeBSD, and on the=20=20 internal=20architecture of the program in question. No matter what kind=20= =20 of=20implementation of whatever API we use in FreeBSD, it doesn't matter=20= =20 as=20long as nobody targets FreeBSD in an audio application as (one of)=20= =20 the=20primary OS. > The whole point of implementing 4Front oss and not a FreeBSD for is to > K.I.S.S. > Here's why > 1)OSS v4 soundcard.h and code already hdandles ALL legacy applications w/= o > needing to implement special kernel kludges You are mixing API (soundcard.h) with implementation (FreeBSD kernel=20=20 sound=20code) and ways to change its behavior (sysctl). > 2)OSS v4 API docs explain how NOT to keep programming in the legacy style > that causes jank audio > The main way this was accomplished was by removing the exclusive acces= s > to the sound hardware, And we do that (several applications can access in parallel by default=20= =20 =3D no exclusive access). So what is not OK here? > this > > link: https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT > > hw.snd.vpc_mixer_bypass (default=3D1, enabled) > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > Mostly, but we did it a 'better' way, like providing a special > bypass mode for legacy applications. > > This linuxism literally carried forward all the bugs from the past, 4Fron= t > oss handles this transparently, no need for these types of switches since > they'll allow devs to carry forward their bad programming habits. What this is about that we allow that old applications still work.=20=20 This=20is a part of the FreeBSD guarantee that old applications still=20=20 work=20on newer releases (ABI compatibility). The FreeBSD community=20=20 considers=20this as a benefit. For this specific case, what is the bug you see here? For a legacy=20=20 application=20it looks like it has exclusive access to the mixer, while=20= =20 it=20hasn't. For the application itself there is no bug here (it only=20=20 controls=20the mixer part of its own sound stream), and the user has the=20= =20 benefit=20of having multiple applications accessing the sound system. > If you update to the latest version of 4Front oss, this is handled, no ne= ed > to main the code behind this stuff. I fail to see the bug in FreeBSD here. So I see no benefit in=20=20 replacing=20this with 4Front oss. What did I miss? > ----- > > ----- > > dev.pcm.X.[play|rec].vchanmode (default=3Ddepends...) > 'fixed' or '0': > The good old mode. Channel mixing is done using fixed > format/rate. Digital passthrough or other advanced operat= ions > will not work in this mode (consider it as a 'legacy' mod= e). > For hardware channels that doesn't support digital=20=20 >=20formats, this > is the default mode. > > 'passthrough' or '1': > Channel mixing is done using fixed format/rate, but advan= ced > operations such as digital passthrough or 'Exclusive Acce= ss' > (#6 down below) will start working. All channels should > produce sound as usual until there is a request for a dig= ital > format playback, which in this case will 'mute'=20=20 >=20other channels > and let the latest incoming digital format pass through > undisturbed. Multiple / concurrent digital streams are > supported, but the LATEST stream will take precedence and > mute all other streams. > > 'adaptive' or '2': > Advanced mode. Works like much like'passthrough' mode, bu= t is > a bit smarter, especially for multiple pcm channels with > different format/rate. Whenever a new channel is=20=20 >=20about to start, > it will scan the entire list of virtual channels and > decide which > format/rate is the best (mostly, the higher/bigger).=20= =20 >=20This will > ensure that the quality of mixing depends on the best of = all > channels. The (bad) side effect of this mode is that the > hardware DMA needs to be restarted and might cause annoyi= ng > pops/clicks, but for a long running playback, this issue > might be acceptable. Any changes for current format/rate = can > be seen through the output of sysctl > dev.pcm.[play|rev].vchan[format|rate]. > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > 4front OSS incapable of doing this magic. > > There's nothing K.I.S.S. about this and again, all this "magic" is what's > making audio programming a mess. The default is what works for a lot of users, and doesn't contain any=20=20 magic=20at all. Only when you enable it on purpose you will get extended=20= =20 possibility.=20At least in 2009 when this document was last updated,=20=20 4Front=20did not provide those extended features. I don't know the state=20= =20 of=20this in current 4Front code. Feel free to explain if and how they=20= =20 handle=20it today (if they catched up to what FreeBSD is able to do, and=20= =20 how=20the handle it in the API). > ----- > > ----- > > 5) Bitperfect > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > SNDCTL_DSP_COOKEDMODE is mostly compatible, except that it=20=20 >=20will handle > complex situation with vchans enabled 'better' compared to=20=20 >=204front OSS. > > Again "better" compared to 4front oss, how so? That's off course a good question. My guess is, that this refers to=20=20 the=20extended features which are possible (see "adaptive" above). So=20=20 still,=20currently I fail to see what is less good in FreeBSD than in=20=20 4Front=20code. > ----- > > ----- > > 6) Exclusive Access > > OSSv4 Compatibility: > This feature is mostly compatible with OSSv4, except that 4front = OSS > prevents all other applications from running (stalled/halted, oth= er > unknown grave effects) if any sound device being accessed in a su= ch > way. FreeBSD does this smartly on top of the Transparent / Adapt= ive > Virtual Channel. > > This is the main issue and a cause for so many sound systems. If this isn= 't > removed and have those applications use legacy mode of the default 4Front > soundcard.h and follow better codinig practices into the future, no amoun= t > of sound architecture rewrite will help. You have not included the remark that this is not enabled by default.=20=20 This=20means that an user has to specially enable it to have exclusive=20= =20 access=20working. The outcome is that in case an application wants to=20=20 have=20exclusive access (e.g. by accident or programming error or legacy=20= =20 code),=20this is not respected and the user still gets sound output from=20= =20 multiple=20applications. > This bypass is what lead to ALSA, JACK v1-v2, and Pulse, which still don'= t > solve the problem of janky audio. This isn't a feature it's a bug. When you have multiple applications doing sound output, there is no=20=20 janky=20audio output. At least not to m knowledge. IF there is, then=20=20 please=20provide a way to reproduce this behavior. Additionally those audio systems - to my knowledge - have "multiple=20=20 audio=20streams at the same time" as a feature, which we don't need in=20= =20 FreeBSD=20because it just works by default. > audio/virtual_oss doesn't make up for that. virtual_oss is not meant as a competition to ALSA, Jack or PulseAudio.=20= =20 Think=20about it as a way to implement userland audio devices or virtual=20= =20 hardware. >=20----- > > You guys say I am claiming that X is better than Y, maybe you should read > the reference link that I shared above. > > 4Front oss already has a soundcard.h file that implements and support all > the legacy applications, they could've ripped that code out but left it > there for compatibility. > > Read the warnings about legacy audio applications and why ossv4 was > implemented the way it was: > http://manuals.opensound.com/developer/ossapi.html You are talking about the API here. The way a program is written to=20=20 access=20the sound system. When you complain about by telling we shall replace the sound code in=20=20 the=20kernel by the opensound code is not the API, it is the behavior=20=20 which=20is invoked when a program uses the API. Those are two different things. Maybe this is the cause of misunderstanding here. Bye, Alexander. --=20 http://www.Leidinger.net=20Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF --=_K580ClzmmfOP_x0pb-vaMYh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: Digitale PGP-Signatur Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAABAgAGBQJaNSC9AAoJEKrxQhqFIICEfI0QAJoGau2MjRWrHQJFto3oSygO E4YsVSwGWeG8gbUtRbswqBmK5XJoDPLOTOedMNXBYETD0VVC0+ECJxNqjsokIsvA vBzzYbgbV5Y9xmW6Y6/ahaMngcaPKjjvQsLjvrHHRKnnxMB+nqIaOvTsf1u5xDwT XGtAnV97h3GWqPQijK3F0e25q/JV1C5tadAvE10IuWx5KMPWrw2az9xvpHWKUdqC KaO6gDjWvQmK1aXnDmxQeYH6tAZBOPHxHoDsI2i1rrNqTT/AFwJoDCDT1ZAFGGAw xq3CElHouS1zub6vA5R8z8tG2y6HaAv28tk3TkMXQBPi3uFB0zkwTzsfNXdTLlL4 78ZdLwyP+7FNXDTEbo2ssqIwprpMDHMZkqzO5hbfs11W6CO17VqYPYHDL3r5ztGr ii2R7PbUooTvIm59Y43sQEMdar6r5a2dmbM/zvHaFUOGmoOR83iZNjSAf0Li1RyB 03wHt+Vm5tsfWS8HaTl7lb/UQuTQZbdKhRZGZ7NIp4ohkcOc3MjtpxebHqonaEi7 DZvVxDFqjhjpMb3DxzFPBGO/cud8wVtwT/Hfxmm71t3EHjnZtVs/rKOAPVYelAh1 cWiNp3aBOHXR7duVlO3qzbpZVKI4/n9krwt55FXLnxbet5rrbUTbwjDiolf+0Sjt iSsWPHSB+49sXgQLDV9b =tp19 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=_K580ClzmmfOP_x0pb-vaMYh-- From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 13:49:10 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C057E82CEF for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:49:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x243.google.com (mail-it0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1806C64375 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:49:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x243.google.com with SMTP id p139so23745284itb.1 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 05:49:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wssaheNcuCTbO7Px2jkL/VNMAywAdI5EZXYvscuct6k=; b=q9tLUux64p7So1aq5nAPx5paZDnf27CMVUEjOE6bHyU4sYO/yH5OxI+4sdE1ikwhXV jT4MmabGD/MtIR9zFGQcwzz3pEnmNoVYqcJLrg+oiXvhidjdIEhOMb6DwX68pSVPy+/u oLjFK4WOwvZjcUUL7JyDM2ua2jtb8l/ueg42UDPCJg1Mre57BYPe0Vq1ANXgfNryNVKk iMBpQIJ756yLSb9lsCrXDu2B0DLLRtGUCbcOG7ueFRw5wOaggNtGiR8teHfReeL7TSa0 CVBextjD551gGiGHtb9jk+ZDlhNJKVbI36C6EXw4WDntoBXt7mGu92YG1COrfr0PpuM7 8V+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wssaheNcuCTbO7Px2jkL/VNMAywAdI5EZXYvscuct6k=; b=bLRKJsS2ygejOBs6s7F7YJu97Vi3VNlhXe2Fv0LFg3Oq09Yv7AZ+IVpsD+lPJAiljq pIbQYhng0t67H2YHgLsGvrvwKIg06Cbb6eqXtzxU5J7PeHULJ6WKc8Fqxvhj05x66+6b zZIBSVB2X992eZYtOxE65nuOD2io7mWddj05TQ4R63T1FR9BvUy5ad4q3s5prj5lmp7B ArQvSeBdCrG48ZeuQgMp1H9RJKGuuVoGQHNX9CDs2bpCvmc/0cpaeSvOf+ixwqesqZ/m W2Zs+mf4tolC0EBNPXq9Rx5D9KfKhu5VcV6K+rME9vhxgT+iY052rtpMFnVbyRZRk2zb LdJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIgsEKGdEiR+WV3N1Ek8Iu6bwF2Tz41F7UQyj66Em5ebvTdo9zC UtW4DI7OFi1ZkpGirsUMw3EBPjYdjG5HcpQy2yi4f8y0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotYAIGD/ZiAQ0tVEgW5c4XCwhXkaTbVbsddMe1jFLMgrmV6g+s21vSK61BEhZ/nkZp84HB1ImMawxirdyfivD8= X-Received: by 10.36.116.135 with SMTP id o129mr11603473itc.119.1513432149249; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 05:49:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.134.9 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 05:49:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171216143349.Horde.VJOddyv79ydlAmvsvoTRhMP@webmail.leidinger.net> References: <4c3ae20e-b6dd-d5db-0b93-2e1225daa658@selasky.org> <4eb0c57e-96fa-b75a-17f8-750154aa247a@selasky.org> <20171216011614.Horde.Uitm74qhBEwh_NRo9RgDgu3@webmail.leidinger.net> <20171216143349.Horde.VJOddyv79ydlAmvsvoTRhMP@webmail.leidinger.net> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:49:08 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD amd64 GENERIC kernel To: Alexander Leidinger Cc: Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:49:10 -0000 On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 9:33 PM, Alexander Leidinger < Alexander@leidinger.net> wrote: > Quoting blubee blubeeme (from Sat, 16 Dec 2017 > 09:39:04 +0800): > > On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Alexander Leidinger < >> Alexander@leidinger.net> wrote: >> >> Quoting blubee blubeeme (from Fri, 15 Dec 2017 >>> 22:39:25 +0800): >>> >>> What's with the stuck up attitude? Stay focused on the issue at hand >>> which >>> >>>> is FreeBSD's fork of OSS makes it a challenge to implement software that >>>> sticks to the OSS standard. >>>> >>>> There's nobody actively working on improving the audio situation on >>>> FreeBSD. You have a user/developer who wants to do the work and you >>>> react >>>> >>>> >>> Can you please describe in features / bullet-points what is missing >>> instead of saying "X is better than Y"? >>> >>> like it's some personal attack on your person to update the underlying >>> >>>> code. >>>> >>>> Guess what, most of the clever features you talk about are in OSS4 and >>>> if >>>> they are not, they can still be added. >>>> >>>> >>> What I understand what you say is: >>> - I want to replace X by Y, because Y is better. >>> - Anything what is better in X can be added to Y. >>> >>> So basically I understand that you want to replace incomplete feature-set >>> in X by an incomplete feature-set from Y (without knowing what the >>> incompleteness in either X or Y is). >>> >> >> There's no incomplete "feature" what I am saying is the changes made for >> compatibility brought forward legacy application bugs. >> When you update to clang 4 and a lot of your code breaks because they use >> depreciated coding standards, do you patch clang or >> do you fix your software? >> > > I consider this a bad example. The word "legacy" already implies that you > have a new way of doing things, wheres as comparing clang and gcc is not > putting a new meaning to the input source code, but transforming the source > code based upon pre-defined rules. And yes, if there are cases where the > source code which is compiled is wrong, and not clang. > > Regarding the issues you have with "compatibility aspects", I will comment > upon below. > > > And to bring in some technical info (parts of "AFAIR", I may >>> misremember...): >>> - The OSS code in FreeBSD was at some point in time the 4Front OSS code. >>> - At some point 4Front closed-source their implementation and FreeBSD >>> deviated. >>> - At some point Ariff put in an effort to advance the OSS code in >>> FreeBSD >>> which made it the best in various aspects (one of them latency) when >>> compared to 4Front code, Windows, MacOS and Linux ALSA. >>> - Then in 2006 Ryan was adding OSSv4-API compatibility to the FreeBSD >>> sound code as part of the Google Summer of Code, mentored by Ariff and >>> me. >>> - Since then I don't remember big API changes/improvements... HPS worked >>> a lot on USB audio support, userland drivers and AFAIK some MIDI stuff as >>> part of the userland drivers, but all that is more or less drivers, not >>> API... please correct me if I got this wrong; and mav(?) worked on HDA >>> support (also driver, not API). >>> >>> I posted a link below as a reference and some reasons why those changes >> were not a good idea. >> The whole point of ossv4 was to implement simpler API and depreciate >> legacy >> audio application coding styles. >> > > And we have the OSSv4 (= simpler) API, as such we are not different from > an API point of view. > > Note, various aspects of the FreeBSD sound code can be tweaked by sysctls, >>> e.g. latency, virtual channels, direct physical access ("bitperfect"), >>> automatic resampling, equilizer, ... (see "sysctl hw.snd dev.pcm dev.hdaa >>> dev.hdac" and "man sound snd_hda snd_uaudio" and the SOUND_4.TXT of Ariff >>> you mentioned). >>> >>> And regarding your comment about SOUND4.TXT: if you read this document >>> carefully, you will notice that the part you quoted as being bad can be >>> disabled. >>> >>> It's not about being bad and can be disabled, if the API is still there >> then people will copy old coding practices guaranteeing that newer audio >> applications >> are still plagued by the crud from legacy audio API. >> > > So you suggest we remove parts of your sound API? Which ioctls do you want > to remove? > > So you leave that stuff there, with FreeBSD providing NO documentation/ >> tutorials/ example programs of how to write decent sound applications. >> > > As we implement the OSSv4 API, why should we come up with a newly written > documentation of it? > > A dev comes along and copies some code from an older application and brings >> forward all the legacy coding practices, but sure they use JACK audio, >> it seems to run okay, now you try to port the application to FreeBSD, the >> sound quality is bad or it's janky oh, FreeBSD sucks at audio. >> > > You think that people target FreeBSD with audio applications? I wish this > were true. Normally an application is written for Linux, and then someone > tries to make it work on FreeBSD. It then all depends upon the skills of > the person trying to make it work on FreeBSD, and on the internal > architecture of the program in question. No matter what kind of > implementation of whatever API we use in FreeBSD, it doesn't matter as long > as nobody targets FreeBSD in an audio application as (one of) the primary > OS. > > > > The whole point of implementing 4Front oss and not a FreeBSD for is to >> K.I.S.S. >> Here's why >> 1)OSS v4 soundcard.h and code already hdandles ALL legacy applications w/o >> needing to implement special kernel kludges >> > > You are mixing API (soundcard.h) with implementation (FreeBSD kernel sound > code) and ways to change its behavior (sysctl). > > 2)OSS v4 API docs explain how NOT to keep programming in the legacy style >> that causes jank audio >> The main way this was accomplished was by removing the exclusive access >> to the sound hardware, >> > > > And we do that (several applications can access in parallel by default = > no exclusive access). So what is not OK here? > > this >> >> link: https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/SOUND_4.TXT >> >> hw.snd.vpc_mixer_bypass (default=1, enabled) >> >> OSSv4 Compatibility: >> Mostly, but we did it a 'better' way, like providing a special >> bypass mode for legacy applications. >> >> This linuxism literally carried forward all the bugs from the past, 4Front >> oss handles this transparently, no need for these types of switches since >> they'll allow devs to carry forward their bad programming habits. >> > > What this is about that we allow that old applications still work. This is > a part of the FreeBSD guarantee that old applications still work on newer > releases (ABI compatibility). The FreeBSD community considers this as a > benefit. > > For this specific case, what is the bug you see here? For a legacy > application it looks like it has exclusive access to the mixer, while it > hasn't. For the application itself there is no bug here (it only controls > the mixer part of its own sound stream), and the user has the benefit of > having multiple applications accessing the sound system. > > If you update to the latest version of 4Front oss, this is handled, no need >> to main the code behind this stuff. >> > > I fail to see the bug in FreeBSD here. So I see no benefit in replacing > this with 4Front oss. What did I miss? > > > ----- >> >> ----- >> >> dev.pcm.X.[play|rec].vchanmode (default=depends...) >> 'fixed' or '0': >> The good old mode. Channel mixing is done using fixed >> format/rate. Digital passthrough or other advanced >> operations >> will not work in this mode (consider it as a 'legacy' >> mode). >> For hardware channels that doesn't support digital >> formats, this >> is the default mode. >> >> 'passthrough' or '1': >> Channel mixing is done using fixed format/rate, but >> advanced >> operations such as digital passthrough or 'Exclusive >> Access' >> (#6 down below) will start working. All channels should >> produce sound as usual until there is a request for a >> digital >> format playback, which in this case will 'mute' other >> channels >> and let the latest incoming digital format pass through >> undisturbed. Multiple / concurrent digital streams are >> supported, but the LATEST stream will take precedence and >> mute all other streams. >> >> 'adaptive' or '2': >> Advanced mode. Works like much like'passthrough' mode, >> but is >> a bit smarter, especially for multiple pcm channels with >> different format/rate. Whenever a new channel is about to >> start, >> it will scan the entire list of virtual channels and >> decide which >> format/rate is the best (mostly, the higher/bigger). This >> will >> ensure that the quality of mixing depends on the best of >> all >> channels. The (bad) side effect of this mode is that the >> hardware DMA needs to be restarted and might cause >> annoying >> pops/clicks, but for a long running playback, this issue >> might be acceptable. Any changes for current format/rate >> can >> be seen through the output of sysctl >> dev.pcm.[play|rev].vchan[format|rate]. >> >> OSSv4 Compatibility: >> 4front OSS incapable of doing this magic. >> >> There's nothing K.I.S.S. about this and again, all this "magic" is what's >> making audio programming a mess. >> > > The default is what works for a lot of users, and doesn't contain any > magic at all. Only when you enable it on purpose you will get extended > possibility. At least in 2009 when this document was last updated, 4Front > did not provide those extended features. I don't know the state of this in > current 4Front code. Feel free to explain if and how they handle it today > (if they catched up to what FreeBSD is able to do, and how the handle it in > the API). > > ----- >> >> ----- >> >> 5) Bitperfect >> >> OSSv4 Compatibility: >> SNDCTL_DSP_COOKEDMODE is mostly compatible, except that it will >> handle >> complex situation with vchans enabled 'better' compared to 4front >> OSS. >> >> Again "better" compared to 4front oss, how so? >> > > That's off course a good question. My guess is, that this refers to the > extended features which are possible (see "adaptive" above). So still, > currently I fail to see what is less good in FreeBSD than in 4Front code. > > ----- >> >> ----- >> >> 6) Exclusive Access >> >> OSSv4 Compatibility: >> This feature is mostly compatible with OSSv4, except that 4front >> OSS >> prevents all other applications from running (stalled/halted, >> other >> unknown grave effects) if any sound device being accessed in a >> such >> way. FreeBSD does this smartly on top of the Transparent / >> Adaptive >> Virtual Channel. >> >> This is the main issue and a cause for so many sound systems. If this >> isn't >> removed and have those applications use legacy mode of the default 4Front >> soundcard.h and follow better codinig practices into the future, no amount >> of sound architecture rewrite will help. >> > > You have not included the remark that this is not enabled by default. This > means that an user has to specially enable it to have exclusive access > working. The outcome is that in case an application wants to have exclusive > access (e.g. by accident or programming error or legacy code), this is not > respected and the user still gets sound output from multiple applications. > > This bypass is what lead to ALSA, JACK v1-v2, and Pulse, which still don't >> solve the problem of janky audio. This isn't a feature it's a bug. >> > > When you have multiple applications doing sound output, there is no janky > audio output. At least not to m knowledge. IF there is, then please provide > a way to reproduce this behavior. > Additionally those audio systems - to my knowledge - have "multiple audio > streams at the same time" as a feature, which we don't need in FreeBSD > because it just works by default. > > audio/virtual_oss doesn't make up for that. >> > > virtual_oss is not meant as a competition to ALSA, Jack or PulseAudio. > Think about it as a way to implement userland audio devices or virtual > hardware. > > > ----- >> >> You guys say I am claiming that X is better than Y, maybe you should read >> the reference link that I shared above. >> >> 4Front oss already has a soundcard.h file that implements and support all >> the legacy applications, they could've ripped that code out but left it >> there for compatibility. >> >> Read the warnings about legacy audio applications and why ossv4 was >> implemented the way it was: >> http://manuals.opensound.com/developer/ossapi.html >> > > You are talking about the API here. The way a program is written to access > the sound system. > When you complain about by telling we shall replace the sound code in the > kernel by the opensound code is not the API, it is the behavior which is > invoked when a program uses the API. > Those are two different things. > > Maybe this is the cause of misunderstanding here. > > > Bye, > Alexander. > > -- > http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF > http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF > These are some blog posts from mid to late 2000; Please read it and understand what's he's trying to express; Then look at the audio programs and see how they continue to make the same exact mistakes in 2017 going on 2018. https://web.archive.org/web/20111001142728/http://4front-tech.com/hannublog/?page_id=34 Where are these audio app developers who should be chiming in? The few applications that I've ported: audio/amsynth and audio/yoshimi one has OSS support already, the other one I am developing. Working on implementing the OSS support I am running into issues Instead of listening u guys keep repeating FreeBSD audio is Great.... There is misunderstanding. Where are the devs porting audio programs, writing new ones or bringing online new devices? Why can't they speak up? Or will you guys just sit back and watch FreeBSD absorb Linuxism until it's just a bastardization of Linux? From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 16:53:51 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0250E87E1C for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 16:53:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F28A6A802 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 16:53:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2016.home.selasky.org (unknown [62.141.128.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E72E2602AA; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:53:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: webcamd-4.12.0.1 segfault when using WinTV-HV-950Q To: youngluc@gmail.com, freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org References: <63966a1d-1244-4ea0-0bf8-15b485f63cd4@gmail.com> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 17:50:53 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <63966a1d-1244-4ea0-0bf8-15b485f63cd4@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 16:53:52 -0000 On 12/16/17 14:10, Lucas Young wrote: > I am trying to get my WinTV-HV-950Q working on FreeBSD. I am running > into, apparently, the same problem as described in the following link > which is from this list about two years ago. > [Hauppauge WinTV HVR > 950Q](https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2015-June/016273.html) > > > This one sounds similar as well. > [FreeBSD-10.3 and WinTV > HVR-950Q](https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-multimedia/2016-December/017525.html) > > > Unfortunately, it does not appear that the solution to either of those > previous issues was posted to the list so hoping that there is someone > who is willing to rehash this for me. > > In short, webcamd is crashing with a segfault the first time that it is > run. If it is run again, it usually starts but then consumes 100% of one > CPU core. I have included the particulars from my system below. Note > that I have already compiled webcamd from ports with the DEBUG turned > on. I am not proficient in C or in using gdb so I need some help to know > what to check next. > > # uname -mrs > FreeBSD 11.1-RELEASE-p4 amd64 > > # pkg info -x webcamd > webcamd-4.12.0.1 > > # md5 /boot/modules/dvb-fe-xc5000-1.6.114.fw > MD5 (/boot/modules/dvb-fe-xc5000-1.6.114.fw) = > b1ac8f759020523ebaaeff3fdf4789ed > > # usbconfig > ugen4.1: at usbus4, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=FULL (12Mbps) > pwr=SAVE (0mA) > ugen0.1: <0x1022 XHCI root HUB> at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=SUPER > (5.0Gbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) > ugen5.1: at usbus5, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) > pwr=SAVE (0mA) > ugen2.1: at usbus2, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=FULL (12Mbps) > pwr=SAVE (0mA) > ugen3.1: at usbus3, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) > pwr=SAVE (0mA) > ugen1.1: <0x1022 XHCI root HUB> at usbus1, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=SUPER > (5.0Gbps) pwr=SAVE (0mA) > ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH > (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) > ugen3.2: at usbus3, > cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH (480Mbps) pwr=ON (500mA) > > # usbconfig -d 0.2 dump_device_desc > ugen0.2: at usbus0, cfg=0 md=HOST spd=HIGH > (480Mbps) p > wr=ON (500mA) > >   bLength = 0x0012 >   bDescriptorType = 0x0001 >   bcdUSB = 0x0200 >   bDeviceClass = 0x0000  >   bDeviceSubClass = 0x0000 >   bDeviceProtocol = 0x0000 >   bMaxPacketSize0 = 0x0040 >   idVendor = 0x2040 >   idProduct = 0x7200 >   bcdDevice = 0x0005 >   iManufacturer = 0x0001  >   iProduct = 0x0002  >   iSerialNumber = 0x000a  >   bNumConfigurations = 0x0001 > > # cat /boot/loader.conf > kern.geom.label.disk_ident.enable="0" > kern.geom.label.gptid.enable="0" > vfs.zfs.min_auto_ashift=12 > zfs_load="YES" > cuse_load="YES" > > # sysrc -a > autofs_enable: YES > dbus_enable: NO > dumpdev: AUTO > hald_enable: NO > jackd_enable: NO > mountd_enable: YES > mountd_flags: -r > moused_enable: NO > mythbackend_enable: YES > nfs_server_enable: YES > ntpd_enable: YES > powerd_enable: YES > rpc_lockd_enable: YES > rpc_statd_enable: YES > rpcbind_enable: YES > sshd_enable: YES > webcamd_0_flags: -N Hauppauge-WinTV-HVR-950 -S unknown > webcamd_1_flags: -N Chicony-Electronics-Co--Ltd--HP-Truevision-HD -S 0x0001 > webcamd_enable: YES > zfs_enable: YES > > > When the host boots I find that the cuse module is loaded, there is a > coredump in /, and dmesg indicates that it "exited on signal 11" during > the boot. > > # kldstat > Id Refs Address            Size     Name >  1   17 0xffffffff80200000 1f67a88  kernel >  2    1 0xffffffff82169000 316708   zfs.ko >  3    2 0xffffffff82480000 cb78     opensolaris.ko >  4    1 0xffffffff8248d000 e690     cuse.ko >  5    1 0xffffffff82a31000 10913    snd_uaudio.ko > > # dmesg > ... > uaudio0 on uhub3 > uaudio0: on usbus0 > uaudio0: No playback. > uaudio0: Record: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. > uaudio0: No MIDI sequencer. > pcm2: on uaudio0 > uaudio0: No HID volume keys found. > pid 99972 (webcamd), uid 0: exited on signal 11 (core dumped) > ... > > # gdb $(which webcamd) /webcamd.core > GNU gdb 6.1.1 [FreeBSD] > Copyright 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you > are > welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain > conditions. > Type "show copying" to see the conditions. > There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for details. > This GDB was configured as "amd64-marcel-freebsd"... > Core was generated by '/usr/local/sbin/webcamd -i 0 -d ugen0.2 -B -U > webcamd -G webcamd'. > Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault. > Reading symbols from /usr/local/lib/libhal.so...done. > Loaded symbols for /usr/local/lib/libhal.so > Reading symbols from /usr/local/lib/libdbus-1.so...done. > Loaded symbols for /usr/local/lib/libdbus-1.so > Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libusb.so.3...done. > Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libusb.so.3 > Reading symbols from /lib/libthr.so.3...done. > Loaded symbols for /lib/libthr.so.3 > Reading symbols from /lib/libutil.so.9...done. > Loaded symbols for /lib/libutil.so.9 > Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libcuse.so.1...done. > Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libcuse.so.1 > Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.7...done. > Loaded symbols for /lib/libc.so.7 > Reading symbols from /usr/lib/libexecinfo.so.1...done. > Loaded symbols for /usr/lib/libexecinfo.so.1 > Reading symbols from /lib/libelf.so.2...done. > Loaded symbols for /lib/libelf.so.2 > Reading symbols from /lib/libgcc_s.so.1...done. > Loaded symbols for /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 > Reading symbols from /libexec/ld-elf.so.1...done. > Loaded symbols for /libexec/ld-elf.so.1 > #0  0x0000000000414e32 in timer_exec (arg=0x0) at kernel/linux_timer.c:142 > 142                                     TAILQ_REMOVE(&timer_head, t, > entry); > (gdb) bt > #0  0x0000000000414e32 in timer_exec (arg=0x0) at kernel/linux_timer.c:142 > #1  0x00000008014c7bc5 in pthread_create () from /lib/libthr.so.3 > #2  0x0000000000000000 in ?? () > Current language:  auto; currently minimal > (gdb) p &timer_head > $1 = (struct timer_head *) 0xccee78 > (gdb) p t > $2 = (struct timer_list *) 0x802843130 > > > Can someone point me in the direction of what to check next? Hi, I think the TAILQ_INIT() was called too late. Can you try this patch inside webcamd sources after "make extract patch" ? > Index: kernel/linux_timer.c > =================================================================== > --- kernel/linux_timer.c (revision 4030) > +++ kernel/linux_timer.c (working copy) > @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ > > TAILQ_HEAD(timer_head, timer_list); > > -static struct timer_head timer_head; > +static struct timer_head timer_head = TAILQ_HEAD_INITIALIZER(timer_head); > static pthread_t timer_thread; > static volatile int timer_thread_started; > static int timer_needed; > @@ -206,8 +206,6 @@ > static int > timer_init(void) > { > - TAILQ_INIT(&timer_head); > - > get_jiffies_64(); > > if (pthread_create(&timer_thread, NULL, timer_exec, NULL)) { --HPS From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 21:51:41 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA849E90B48 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FE5760AD for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D03CAE90B47; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFE25E90B46 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDFAF760AC for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBGLpfFV055481 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: maintainer-approval requested: [Bug 224384] [Patch] Unbreak multimedia/avidemux_plugins : [Attachment 188893] Remove BROKEN from multimedia/avidemux_plugins Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Type: request X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: freebsd-ports-bugs@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:42 -0000 rkoberman@gmail.com has asked multimedia@FreeBSD.org for maintainer-approva= l: Bug 224384: [Patch] Unbreak multimedia/avidemux_plugins https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D224384 Attachment 188893: Remove BROKEN from multimedia/avidemux_plugins https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=3D188893&action=3Dedit --- Comment #1 from rkoberman@gmail.com --- Created attachment 188893 --> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=3D188893&action= =3Dedit Remove BROKEN from multimedia/avidemux_plugins From owner-freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org Sat Dec 16 21:51:42 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B565E90B4C for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02771760AF for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 01CC5E90B4A; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:42 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: multimedia@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0132AE90B49 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2D51760AE for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from bugs.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBGLpfFX055481 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: multimedia@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 224384] [Patch] Unbreak multimedia/avidemux_plugins Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:41 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: rkoberman@gmail.com X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: freebsd-ports-bugs@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: cc flagtypes.name attachments.created Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-multimedia@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Multimedia discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 21:51:42 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D224384 rkoberman@gmail.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |multimedia@FreeBSD.org Attachment #188893| |maintainer-approval?(multim Flags| |edia@FreeBSD.org) --- Comment #1 from rkoberman@gmail.com --- Created attachment 188893 --> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=3D188893&action= =3Dedit Remove BROKEN from multimedia/avidemux_plugins --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.=