From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Fri Oct 6 19:24:35 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C85BE3F890 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:24:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from palle@lyckegaard.dk) Received: from mx.sdf.org (ol.sdf.org [205.166.94.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ol.sdf.org", Issuer "ol.sdf.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D3A86C77C for ; Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:24:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from palle@lyckegaard.dk) Received: from sverige.freeshell.org (sverige.freeshell.org [205.166.94.5]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id v96JO8WN000561 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:24:08 GMT Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 19:24:08 +0000 (UTC) From: Palle Lyckegaard X-X-Sender: palle@iceland.freeshell.org To: port-sparc64@netbsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org, sparc@openbsd.org cc: mroos@linux.ee, glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de, jrtc27@jrtc27.com, matorola@gmail.com Subject: NetBSD: donating Sun SPARC 64 servers (fwd) Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (NEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=ISO-8859-15; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 19:24:35 -0000 Hello fellow SPARC people. Please find attached offer from Ryerson University (see below). Please note the short time line. Some additional infomation from Roger Ehrlich to be observed: "Sorry for the short time lines, but we need to remove these servers very soon. The management requires the space. These servers still have good production life in them, so it would be a shame to dispose of them. We have an e-waste recyclers coming initially Oct 17, so we want to know if there is commitment to taking some servers before then. We'd need the requested servers to be removed no later than Oct 24. The sooner these servers are taken the better." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 20:32:30 From: Roger Ehrlich To: NetBSD Webmasters , Timothy Lee Roden , Palle Lyckegaard , Kevin Bowling Cc: Gerald Bootes Subject: NetBSD: donating Sun SPARC 64 servers Hello NetBSD We have a number of working Sun SPARC servers available for donation. * V240, 2x SPARC3, 4GB or 8GB, 4xSCSI bays; Qty 9 working (+6 for parts) * V125, 1x SPARC3, 4GB, 2xSCSI; Qty 7 * V210, 1x SPARC3, 2GB, 2xSCSI; Qty 1 * T2000, 2x SPARC-T1, 16GB or 32GB, 2xSAS; Qty 6 * T5120 2x SPARC-T2, 32G, 4xSAS; Qty 6 * Blade1500 1x SPARC3, 1 or 2GB, 1xATA; Qty 4 * SunFire 4800; Qty 1 Most servers come with 2 disks. We'll attempt to populate the drive bays with at least 2 disks and sleds.  Pair of Rack mount rails included. No tax receipts for donations required. Unfortunately we cannot ship these items (no packing material, time and cost is too high) If interested please contact us to pick up the servers by October 24. Otherwise these will be recycled. Location: Ryerson University Centre for Computing and Engineering 245 Church Street, Toronto, Ontario, Canada Please contact: Gerald Bootes, Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 4883 Email:  gbootes@ryerson.ca  or Roger Ehrlich Phone: (416) 979-5000 ext. 4523 Email:  rehrlich@ryerson.ca  Cheers, Roger -- --------------------------------------------------------  Roger Ehrlich, B.Eng., B.Sc., M.Eng.  Computer Networks Specialist  Computer Networks Program Faculty of Engineering and Architectural Science (FEAS)  Ryerson University, Toronto, Canada 416-979-5000, x4523  rehrlich@ryerson.ca  www.compnet.ryerson.ca -------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Sat Oct 7 17:41:40 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78436E3DAAE; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 17:41:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B08696C663; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 17:41:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CFD61738; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 12:41:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 12:41:24 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: "A. Wilcox" Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@FreeBSD.org Subject: future of sparc64 (was: Making C++11 a hard requirement for FreeBSD) Message-ID: <20171007174124.GA20810@lonesome.com> References: <20171005234149.GE8557@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <59D6CA6C.1040502@Wilcox-Tech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <59D6CA6C.1040502@Wilcox-Tech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 17:41:40 -0000 On Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 07:12:28PM -0500, A. Wilcox wrote: > That doesn't change the fact that sparc64 still exists, and with Oracle > laying off Solaris as well, FreeBSD becomes a "way out" for people > heavily invested (DC full of sparc64 gear, or such). I have thought for some time that we've been a "way out" for Solaris sites wanting to keep ZFS and not deal with licensing issues, and have worked to keep sparc64 alive. (AFAIK FreeBSD is the only open source sparc64/zfs solution?) But here's the current problem. All gccs > 4.9 fail to build. Looking at the logs AFAICT the failure is a floating-point exception as soon as the first built binary is run during the internal testing. Neither Marcel nor Gerald nor I have any insight on how to fix this. Gerald does state that those gccs build on other OSes, so this is almost certainly a FreBSD problem. The default ports compiler has recently moved to gcc5 and then again to gcc6. The only reason gcc49 still exists in the Ports Collection is specifically for sparc64 ports. Recent llvms do not build. I have no insight into that failure, either. So, the long and short is, even with using gcc4.2.1 as an external compiler, over time, fewer and fewer ports build as they adapt to the newer compilers. This is something I don't have the cycles to fix. Unless someone else can step up and fix the compilers, we're close to the end of feasibility. In the meantime, I'll keep running package builds with gcc4.9 as long as it produces some kind of useful results. I'll be happy to discuss the build status of individual ports, but let's have that on sparc64@ rather than arch@, please. mcl From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Sat Oct 7 19:14:22 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D01CE3FB4D; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 19:14:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com (mail-oi0-f48.google.com [209.85.218.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53ED8C1; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 19:14:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id v9so22021799oif.13; Sat, 07 Oct 2017 12:14:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MPvoRjzDkrOh2gqECtCvXqOOStP/7S1Sn/8xaXvdRgs=; b=Ig16zcY4uyxJ+l5st/1V/Hmbh/bZIPlluQVOxcT9LQTEW8FQiBqF5LMfXxyqvcvPu5 F8Cd9Rum+7pjK2pCO1fTIRCr//BgOOmJY+pbjErQBsnbCEDiEttXlt5TZKvrhJoGj11q 8w9Q0DwtPenxUClVKf0Nonm9XWpPo9nyOCxcnbQQD9M+i1THkMKFNXh2wPs8FUJsLt5j nKBUN0qPZ1RaDnNKZ5YWWYq9KjPGzs2jwpq21SmprSWC/sQHPpb+zS4PUZ6OAfn1Dp8t fZF17UjXsYiqBDbITzeM492Gjtnd60+L0y8UXvHxv5Uq8HiQTkIMA0supx8tkZWXSzk4 MwWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaU4YBNOyB+o8pXFiplkbPOYZUTbbCZ85cgQVQhh5U5JmYwXSrEX qxAx7m4UjAhnvdf+OwRh8BHmscmHkc7dOC2f3wo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDjzDYGo4YmoL4skBKyuyFw0IL5Gsz8SNYKpBKctOzlRc+2Kxk//H0O28njfvHr3anOVdTvujXIbIZpRbOq7u0= X-Received: by 10.157.4.37 with SMTP id 34mr3829440otc.156.1507403199627; Sat, 07 Oct 2017 12:06:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20171005234149.GE8557@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <59D6CA6C.1040502@Wilcox-Tech.com> <20171007174124.GA20810@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20171007174124.GA20810@lonesome.com> From: "K. Macy" Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 19:06:29 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: future of sparc64 (was: Making C++11 a hard requirement for FreeBSD) To: "A. Wilcox" , Mark Linimon Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 19:14:22 -0000 On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 10:41 Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 07:12:28PM -0500, A. Wilcox wrote: > > That doesn't change the fact that sparc64 still exists, and with Oracle > > laying off Solaris as well, FreeBSD becomes a "way out" for people > > heavily invested (DC full of sparc64 gear, or such). > > I have thought for some time that we've been a "way out" for Solaris > sites wanting to keep ZFS and not deal with licensing issues, and have > worked to keep sparc64 alive. (AFAIK FreeBSD is the only open source > sparc64/zfs solution?) > > But here's the current problem. > > All gccs > 4.9 fail to build. Looking at the logs AFAICT the failure > is a floating-point exception as soon as the first built binary is run > during the internal testing. > > Neither Marcel nor Gerald nor I have any insight on how to fix this. > Gerald does state that those gccs build on other OSes, so this is almost > certainly a FreBSD problem. > > The default ports compiler has recently moved to gcc5 and then again > to gcc6. The only reason gcc49 still exists in the Ports Collection is > specifically for sparc64 ports. > > Recent llvms do not build. I have no insight into that failure, either. > > So, the long and short is, even with using gcc4.2.1 as an external > compiler, over time, fewer and fewer ports build as they adapt to the > newer compilers. > > This is something I don't have the cycles to fix. Unless someone else > can step up and fix the compilers, we're close to the end of feasibility. > > In the meantime, I'll keep running package builds with gcc4.9 as long as > it produces some kind of useful results. My recollection of sparc64 from sun4v work was that unsupported operations would trap in to the kernel which would in turn trap in to a user space handler for floating point emulation. If someone wants to fix it that=E2=80= =99s where to look. I think that FreeBSD needs to always have one big-endian arch and one arch that requires IOMMU. Bonus points if it fulfills both. For a time that was sparc64. These days other arches meet that need. And at this point the most recent hardware supported by the sparc64 port shipped in ~2003. One could amortize the cost of a low end 2017 server in just the power bill within a year. I don=E2=80=99t know how much work continuing to = maintain sparc64 really adds to non sparc64 enthusiasts. Nonetheless, it is non-zero= . -M From owner-freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Sat Oct 7 19:20:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52D3E3FF20; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 19:20:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [192.108.105.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 580F7183A; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 19:20:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (bones.soaustin.net [192.108.105.22]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9F053738; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 14:20:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 14:20:24 -0500 From: Mark Linimon To: "K. Macy" Cc: "A. Wilcox" , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Subject: Re: future of sparc64 (was: Making C++11 a hard requirement for FreeBSD) Message-ID: <20171007192024.GA21581@lonesome.com> References: <20171005234149.GE8557@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <59D6CA6C.1040502@Wilcox-Tech.com> <20171007174124.GA20810@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 19:20:28 -0000 On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 07:06:29PM +0000, K. Macy wrote: > I think that FreeBSD needs to always have one big-endian arch IMHO it keeps things honest. fwiw, if you fix a port on sparc64 it will usually fix it on powerpc64 and vice versa (~80% correlation). But powerpc64 has a (hardware) future and sparc64 doesn't. I run both at home, but not the powerpc64 continuously. (Actually first typed "4U" it as "$U". Same idea.) So, I'm willing to help keep it going (and even loan a machine to the effort), but I am overcommitted in other areas already. mcl