From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Oct 17 09:48:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B09410CFD21; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:48:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from admin@npo-lencor.ru) Received: from forward105j.mail.yandex.net (forward105j.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:801:2::108]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "forwards.mail.yandex.net", Issuer "Yandex CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9503579917; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:48:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from admin@npo-lencor.ru) Received: from mxback20j.mail.yandex.net (mxback20j.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1619::114]) by forward105j.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 45035186439; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:48:28 +0300 (MSK) Received: from smtp3o.mail.yandex.net (smtp3o.mail.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:0:1a2d::27]) by mxback20j.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTP id PYJa1AcOGS-mS6uA48u; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:48:28 +0300 Received: by smtp3o.mail.yandex.net (nwsmtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id Fpzm3Rs9h3-mRjGQMce; Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:48:27 +0300 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Brooks Davis References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Nikita Druba Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:48:26 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Content-Language: ru Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 09:48:40 -0000 04.10.2018 0:05, Brooks Davis пишет: >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > -- Brooks > > --- > authors: Brooks Davis > state: feedback > --- > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. > > ## Problem Statement > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > ## Proposed Solution > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated > devices. > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > ### Exceptions to removal > > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > ### Device to be removed > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > ## Final Disposition > > TBD Hello! My servers use rl and bfe devices from deprecated list. Also I have some ed devices for replacement failed adapters. Also I can try do convertion to iflib for bfe, rl and ed devices, but still no one not showed good example driver that has already been converted... P.S. So late, because I was away and just returned.