From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Mon Dec 10 18:09:14 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A176132ED67 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:09:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com (mail-qk1-x72f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81D3F85F45 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:09:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id r71so7020042qkr.10 for ; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 10:09:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=izASmEXcZkNRUhllPPiM6/u2lmPYtoqraqz9/U0eU4s=; b=i8MFgj7Rqggs7kYltyhZjwuso1lca7aU1UJdiJ9KYzv91V0i+6LkC3njvf0dAgdpD0 18tPoV7g43B2jQdujtLh7n2/9u1kjaVh5czhMhfu76njcrKya6vqLMZC6qAPm2XrnO36 HWOfPxN5unLCK1mYLO6k9aceYxNdtwCcD9MQM3VWUq2sVU+8W/5P2LROJ5rQiKvndToG dMtp+O9v3RWBtuDuFnA8gyXuXhFkcgViBj01tfVv3M4KWGZAWllzvhSUGNKPlNPN7fXx 2Z0Q+cNjb3gSLvHuPtRu6Ah+LCxGMUudwzeH2bI2Hlk1ID1vKSPciz2DbZuK4S4XJoei BVVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=izASmEXcZkNRUhllPPiM6/u2lmPYtoqraqz9/U0eU4s=; b=O6ogCFsYDoMxRnZSdYgZxx9JICVascatl6ZbBYIBVh3ATt4jVTyZTKErENZsR3CcrB J7lAReai1vYTEBHJEa1JJPG8riSQgn+vYuacZmX2Nr5nhBVXZvLQTnwenLxR+p5lVveD wKHnDpSSrABfJ7ATcrcQLgSmBUS1sgZ5e8gGOVDjuiFmKj4hbBKBInEBDFUvKrXBtxiL t8hhGS+D6+OD+4IWBKeXfS564DT+9eFimlYDiTM4x0iXe+wbGI+Tq+N//wIf+BiqAFZ2 yPvtrNDkH8reeCXKmGzR1mFZ/DaLdnPj42/IthvsJAT62WBOCcebAKJxVI/rlxeEPKYm +TYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZGWrRYxd77qK8Ge56DCYGIoxdXsPkNld+HlPA3NqldpVTeaqzi Vmw9Bp6f2RJcqI2HTOmb3JF5DRkzgsWuQWSWtQt9jG42J1w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/U6a2qU8cGPAjWx+ALw6RedlgfdDcVrgBu8hRk2wFOhQgC5os8BZi0ol/CZFRh6fZhGyLRmKkOSGWAcaMiIBtA= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6c05:: with SMTP id h5mr11997029qkc.175.1544465352722; Mon, 10 Dec 2018 10:09:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201812101338.wBADcE5A026483@repo.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <201812101338.wBADcE5A026483@repo.freebsd.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 11:09:01 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r341787 - in head/sys: arm/include mips/include powerpc/include To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 81D3F85F45 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.47 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.49)[ip: (-9.56), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.50), asn: 15169(-1.28), country: US(-0.09)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Rspamd-Server: mx1.freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 18:09:14 -0000 [[ redirected to mips mailing list ]] This doesn't quite do all platforms, see below, but 32-bit mips is omitted. On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:38 AM Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > Author: hselasky > Date: Mon Dec 10 13:38:13 2018 > New Revision: 341787 > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/341787 > > Log: > Implement atomic_swap_xxx() for all platforms. > > +#if defined(__mips_n64) || defined(__mips_n32) > +static __inline uint64_t > +atomic_swap_64(volatile uint64_t *ptr, const uint64_t value) > 32-bit MIPS still lacks this. It will need to be implemented in assembler. Since we don't support SMP on mips-32 (or could easily move to not supporting it if we have kernels that purport to support it), it would be implemented as save status0; clear interrupts; do the swap; restore status0. If we actually do have SMP 32-mips, then it's much harder. Warner > +{ > + uint64_t retval; > + > + retval = *ptr; > + > + while (!atomic_fcmpset_64(ptr, &retval, value)) > + ; > + return (retval); > +} > +#endif > + > +static __inline unsigned long > +atomic_swap_long(volatile unsigned long *ptr, const unsigned long value) > +{ > + unsigned long retval; > + > + retval = *ptr; > + > + while (!atomic_fcmpset_32((volatile uint32_t *)ptr, > + (uint32_t *)&retval, value)) > + ; > + return (retval); > +} > + > +static __inline uintptr_t > +atomic_swap_ptr(volatile uintptr_t *ptr, const uintptr_t value) > +{ > + uintptr_t retval; > + > + retval = *ptr; > + > + while (!atomic_fcmpset_32((volatile uint32_t *)ptr, > + (uint32_t *)&retval, value)) > + ; > + return (retval); > +} > + > #endif /* ! _MACHINE_ATOMIC_H_ */ > > Modified: head/sys/powerpc/include/atomic.h > > ============================================================================== > --- head/sys/powerpc/include/atomic.h Mon Dec 10 09:45:57 2018 > (r341786) > +++ head/sys/powerpc/include/atomic.h Mon Dec 10 13:38:13 2018 > (r341787) > @@ -852,6 +852,9 @@ atomic_swap_64(volatile u_long *p, u_long v) > #define atomic_fetchadd_64 atomic_fetchadd_long > #define atomic_swap_long atomic_swap_64 > #define atomic_swap_ptr atomic_swap_64 > +#else > +#define atomic_swap_long(p,v) atomic_swap_32((volatile u_int > *)(p), v) > +#define atomic_swap_ptr(p,v) atomic_swap_32((volatile u_int > *)(p), v) > #endif > > #undef __ATOMIC_REL > > From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Mon Dec 10 21:59:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C6F1334CC3 for ; 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ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.930,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.85)[ip: (-6.35), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.51), asn: 15169(-1.28), country: US(-0.09)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Rspamd-Server: mx1.freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 21:59:27 -0000 On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:09 AM Warner Losh wrote: > [[ redirected to mips mailing list ]] > > This doesn't quite do all platforms, see below, but 32-bit mips is omitted. > > On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:38 AM Hans Petter Selasky > wrote: > >> Author: hselasky >> Date: Mon Dec 10 13:38:13 2018 >> New Revision: 341787 >> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/341787 >> >> Log: >> Implement atomic_swap_xxx() for all platforms. >> >> +#if defined(__mips_n64) || defined(__mips_n32) >> +static __inline uint64_t >> +atomic_swap_64(volatile uint64_t *ptr, const uint64_t value) >> > > 32-bit MIPS still lacks this. It will need to be implemented in assembler. > Since we don't support SMP on mips-32 (or could easily move to not > supporting it if we have kernels that purport to support it), it would be > implemented as save status0; clear interrupts; do the swap; restore > status0. If we actually do have SMP 32-mips, then it's much harder. > I'll take a stab at fixing this. However, the issue does expose some weaknesses in how modules are selected for a given kernel. There's 4 SMP 32-bit mips kernels, 3 of which aren't very relevant. SWARM_SMP and XLP both have SMP in them. However, these are 64-bit processors, and should be booting 64-bit kernels, especially since compat32 exists. We can safely ignore both of these, ad if we de-orbited them, nobody would care (speak up if you care now please). We've already done this with Octeon, so there's some precedent. There's GXEMUL32, which has this option. gxemul is not used so much anymore now that MALTA works great with QEMU, so that can be ignored (maybe even deoribitted soon, but not today). None of the AP seem to have multiple cores, which is the bulk of the config files, so that's good. These can support in-kernel 64-bit atomic_swap_64 by disabling interrupts. No interrupt -> atomic operation. However, this may break if people using this function aren't pedantically correct in other 64-bit ops. However, this class of machines doesn't care about mpr/mps controllers and those modules aren't compiled by default for those kernel, so it's likely academic there. The swap_64 function is easy enough to implement though, and it's possible someone would hook them up and/or there be other uses. There's some 64-bit ones, but that's fine. Those can easily support 64-bit ops. No issues here. Then we have one 32-bit multi-core product. The JZ4780 supports a dual-core XBURST processor, so the SMP there is not a mistake, and is actually needed to be able to flush the cache properly. However, I think we're OK even here. For the mpr/mps drivers, it's not an issue: those modules will never be used. In fact, no modules are built for the JZ4780 kernel, and we don't need the linux KPI. So we should be OK not providing one there. We likely need to start tagging platforms that don't support the 64-bits ops somehow so we have a quick framework for new uses of this that pop up. Grepping through the tree, I found several instances where we have a list of architectures (not always the same list) that don't support 64-bits. So we should audit the tree here. Might make sense to have some drivers generally tagged as 64-bit only to work around this issue as well, and leave the edge cases of 32-bit platforms that could theoretically support them to do some kind of testing + opt-in. I'll look at knocking that together as well. > Warner > > >> +{ >> + uint64_t retval; >> + >> + retval = *ptr; >> + >> + while (!atomic_fcmpset_64(ptr, &retval, value)) >> + ; >> + return (retval); >> +} >> +#endif >> + >> +static __inline unsigned long >> +atomic_swap_long(volatile unsigned long *ptr, const unsigned long value) >> +{ >> + unsigned long retval; >> + >> + retval = *ptr; >> + >> + while (!atomic_fcmpset_32((volatile uint32_t *)ptr, >> + (uint32_t *)&retval, value)) >> + ; >> + return (retval); >> +} >> + >> +static __inline uintptr_t >> +atomic_swap_ptr(volatile uintptr_t *ptr, const uintptr_t value) >> +{ >> + uintptr_t retval; >> + >> + retval = *ptr; >> + >> + while (!atomic_fcmpset_32((volatile uint32_t *)ptr, >> + (uint32_t *)&retval, value)) >> + ; >> + return (retval); >> +} >> + >> #endif /* ! _MACHINE_ATOMIC_H_ */ >> >> Modified: head/sys/powerpc/include/atomic.h >> >> ============================================================================== >> --- head/sys/powerpc/include/atomic.h Mon Dec 10 09:45:57 2018 >> (r341786) >> +++ head/sys/powerpc/include/atomic.h Mon Dec 10 13:38:13 2018 >> (r341787) >> @@ -852,6 +852,9 @@ atomic_swap_64(volatile u_long *p, u_long v) >> #define atomic_fetchadd_64 atomic_fetchadd_long >> #define atomic_swap_long atomic_swap_64 >> #define atomic_swap_ptr atomic_swap_64 >> +#else >> +#define atomic_swap_long(p,v) atomic_swap_32((volatile u_int >> *)(p), v) >> +#define atomic_swap_ptr(p,v) atomic_swap_32((volatile u_int >> *)(p), v) >> #endif >> >> #undef __ATOMIC_REL >> >> From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Tue Dec 11 00:15:02 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEDA133775A for ; 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ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[atelierhibouch.cf]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+a]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.915,0]; RBL_VIRUSFREE_BOTNET(2.00)[226.200.144.136.bip.virusfree.cz : 127.0.0.2]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.04)[0.044,0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[atelierhibouch.cf:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[atelierhibouch.cf,none]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.50)[0.498,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: atelierhibouch.cf]; IP_SCORE(-0.22)[asn: 20857(-1.12), country: NL(0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(0.75)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20857, ipnet:136.144.192.0/18, country:NL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Rspamd-Server: mx1.freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:38:20 -0000 Dear Client, We have noticed unusual activity in your account, please update your detail= s for your safety http://hibouchsecurity.francecentral.cloudapp.azure.com/aba_finl Best Regards From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Wed Dec 12 18:15:19 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E109F13179E2 for ; 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To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46B4B70EB3 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=DLwTCV3a X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.46 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-1.61)[ip: (-5.10), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.57), asn: 15169(-1.29), country: US(-0.09)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.84)[-0.841,0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:15:19 -0000 OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few things. First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 and committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to commit when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available there. We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing it, do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough for the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit hardware. We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we needed to do too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. There's little benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove the SWARM_SMP, XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option). But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image Creator's CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 2015. This is a dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new that I can find). This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less capable and more expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to de-support this device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded to my email. I think 12 will have to be the last release we have this in. Today, the only affect is for some drivers that can't run on this platform, but the writing is on the wall. That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? It's for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. I think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it in the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my sone was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was on the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still using mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for sure, so if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running FreeBSD 11 or newer on. Warner From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Wed Dec 12 18:27:05 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C7513180F7 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:27:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69284716CD for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:27:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-lj1-f176.google.com (mail-lj1-f176.google.com [209.85.208.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB18B79BA for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:27:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-lj1-f176.google.com with SMTP id g11-v6so17169987ljk.3 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 10:27:04 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbv6X/Nv/jON4zipN95J9vBzHkyYVolPmhFo3C3DvEgYPO9PsG6 IndMpKzl9noWBiv3iazDEMyEfFBXvIr/jD1XQLQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WIOFNmgPZDHii09ZAwSnqVReEQBtyNGmY3DVj7KwAWuDmErI88mpZ7ud9StZ2Y+VLOe+BfmnnV+n4tmsq18E8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:a202:: with SMTP id h2-v6mr12825885ljm.72.1544639223469; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 10:27:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 12:26:19 -0600 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: Warner Losh Cc: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 69284716CD X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.32 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.83)[-0.831,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.49)[-0.493,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:96.47.64.0/20, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:27:06 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 12:15 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > [... snip ...] > > And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still using > mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for sure, so > if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running FreeBSD > 11 or newer on. > Hi, CARAMBOLA2 here, and I think I've seen some reports of mileage on TL-* and/or TP-* boards from freebsd-wifi-build users. Thanks, Kyle Evans From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Wed Dec 12 22:15:32 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EDCF132828B for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:15:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE05084A75 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:15:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id 68so440853qke.9 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:15:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Ti9hsbGutnra9axAWE98Cvonk9my88YDLvk1iecXs6g=; b=JfOCiUePC9i3meKqSalfmsYBS/zrJM8GEIBTcMEz+fqHFZO9MipRhGEUHo8ko6Wnp9 DWbvF4QDNArahI3Jmm8nY9LopiH+aMgNtQ5KCxfOuXJWi8tsd36X8rsN1mCXfb2q2nJL 8pVTxlmogMVBkg6Kc2JvUk5XXUg5v4WqBEIzNfelPcaqkfEchg/rc7Hb8RORVdjx0ood /tfkG2qz3pCev3VojxhAtKn7Af1bC6kZCoT5qZYTb0tlcmj3DtAGhCjWBTdIMpai/+/T DyX2I5RX2D+vcNAvwUSvLrbphERQB/L1D+0mLjA+ugoCPa3fM8F9IWWl8gyKJGoxtG++ S8CA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Ti9hsbGutnra9axAWE98Cvonk9my88YDLvk1iecXs6g=; b=jIsJo9Q8FLu6CdglfbwAb5Iw4z+He0VKBZifeHbqr94j22ukToIVtBMhFh/Ea/4u9c PIaPyNfCBWGjfEoSuUY1sDRp0mC6N61HmOp29x6h4F10TFKlwrEeIzUexYOwagLXbUAN FUWJI77a9PS24TQiHiyfSJBHK0I9DimsoGlKsfAWgHLJSlAP5SceWGwjVhVC5w6sAmXF dag35kvlh40xerFDLYsXbal9PsOLzkDg3PzDSqcx31iCzDR1qrFQkkLr3Hn9BlamZrbJ uV0Ckhu62vavyYUakqwOpRI7GFEeK1+AfklQo78uVriNfd6BYiJ7sIVi3uBoe18cC5Wq DNlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZgkiUCkihJ8Xr+dgK0B2mA1wME3cGHjYtPu1GMoyJMm8DzRJRF pJfEzswstwjGnoVjOgTMr2cQduEW3oX6NzxZrTjl0gBS X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/V8ABXD02RdJqWnNAC5cXXXpZ26VaY2Cw4qPHuG8EC0PZ2ssuCLZDhc+XPJCpFNuYxbq4QznaBPYqZFyDDoKLQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:c653:: with SMTP id b80mr20785646qkj.245.1544652930706; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 14:15:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 15:15:19 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AE05084A75 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=JfOCiUeP X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.21 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.28)[ip: (-8.46), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.57), asn: 15169(-1.29), country: US(-0.09)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[e.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.935,0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:15:32 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15 AM Warner Losh wrote: > OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few > things. > > First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 and > committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to commit > when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. > > But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. > > First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not > just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available there. > We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing it, > do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough for > the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. > > With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit hardware. > We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we needed to do > too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. There's little > benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove the SWARM_SMP, > XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option). > > But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image Creator's > CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 2015. This is a > dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new that I can find). > This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less capable and more > expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to de-support this > device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded to my email. I > think 12 will have to be the last release we have this in. Today, the only > affect is for some drivers that can't run on this platform, but the writing > is on the wall. > > That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? > It's for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super > popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. I > think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it in > the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my sone > was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was on > the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. > > And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still using > mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for sure, so > if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running FreeBSD > 11 or newer on. > There's one last issue this brings up. When writing the above code, I discovered I could use the non-racy DI instruction. However, that was introduced with mips32r2. This was defined in 2002 and gear appeared in the market 2004 or 2005. I believe that all supported SoCs have mips32r2. SWARM doesn't, which is another reason to kill it: it's getting in the way and providing no benefit. Would anybody object to the minimum ISA being raised to mips32r2 for all 32-bit mips platforms? Warner From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Wed Dec 12 22:56:00 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECB313291F7 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:55:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yamori813@yahoo.co.jp) Received: from nh603-vm2.bullet.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp (nh603-vm2.bullet.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp [182.22.90.43]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3EBD386264 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:55:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yamori813@yahoo.co.jp) Received: from [182.22.66.105] by nh603.bullet.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2018 22:53:43 -0000 Received: from [182.22.91.129] by t603.bullet.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2018 22:53:43 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp602.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2018 22:53:43 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 667738.35043.bm@omp602.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp Received: (qmail 50946 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Dec 2018 22:53:43 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.jp; s=yj20110701; t=1544655223; bh=SkTXRCtKOtFymdSJnQ1KKm8knxFh6Y5F8Ct2xRKNOSY=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:X-YMail-JAS:References:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=maTz/oCtwVBnpJj/4BJKkuqfm4n8tGG8b0pOMyuB89kn3fbf/8F+yBCD+MOEHEZeCG3Irq7NAY2XD5ZdLJncRfT/e6uZGa2VFiog4P8FrRiaWCaEluZafHnPLSxgkwHnCVAF41zFTwvZ8cZdF2eSbikNSVhzm1/LUnzuGQxaYAs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=yj20110701; d=yahoo.co.jp; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:X-YMail-JAS:References:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=TFPRrp8VT5fhqwhI3w9O2nAJmf4xOpEonAdIPizHntYjFzrHK+ky0enIgmWlhgU6qk/H0NJDKYDI178jr2ap7lMVhWqRmxLWet3SWzw1+aM2anN0q4/T2DTE5EkHNitSU8WaxtTCWbTwJ7T4+SEqKWge95kSB9nbLlgU05AE0EA=; Message-ID: <367298.45441.qm@web103901.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> X-YMail-OSG: IfuVqhwVM1mWp4fdN0Bh_mB41HJOVOO7JPZ3.IElGo1ZCX.fYewHu1nBmXqDzFcnWCDttEKjwmI_rUNwnnKyWO9FI4TilXjk0tm5gcaI0.DPyoeVsWDUf4T3SWVPTgpCUSeSsaqwf6_AvqgrwPwLzkZ0yjvL.FKUYBCjZ5U.hYgCjEMcA.4c0NoAO8DhF.hDfaF90t8wIj9YtqJzzwWk11LOsdt4MQI2Ucs6eAL_nQp67L9oxUZMvOxZnNzOVVvSxNQUp1pdk7Vrhi_Dge3sFjC0.6pZ82h.gfZ2Wz0oa3l825FRV6eDWpLCOhjWmNdtUfHPm9JO.3TNjd5NaRzgJLhspDxDerLJurSn4dHzhKHybcV8G3_s6v2Lk8iv79a902L5jQWRyHhDVf57GQgYvVahQX.2i9SnUs6mNF2XwkU7M.Rp.3Oa8VvdJmCLMgXkfUYI4L31ZMB8pxGh9J8Zz04EviGhAzqynLas3HOma.kYwM9Y_XYqsT4xzN6YcdDtP_WMimgWrAQVtl5mVmQw68asBvag9bvZPVvEKnncntfsNEyGpcAdwaNtQyTvCaYqaS4_opIQrTZKD_4bXp8kujwf4K0V6IW7ErJrNrsu216GH4ol0f6qzw542CdwUBJY Received: from [203.165.243.65] by web103901.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp via HTTP; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:53:41 JST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.111_74 X-YMail-JAS: LEKpgaQVM1mDfxz46Cx5Ke7fHQtEeaD.lw8InmLwO9bAwPUE0abyIBljfrThWbBci.ihes38H.H0QEg7tBDvwTU0xjWZb8AXk8LjQcosf.R.FSwNP1HBmqv.7nrXhh7lE63t References: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:53:41 +0900 (JST) From: Mori Hiroki Reply-To: Mori Hiroki Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: Warner Losh , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3EBD386264 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.co.jp header.s=yj20110701 header.b=maTz/oCt; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yamori813@yahoo.co.jp designates 182.22.90.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yamori813@yahoo.co.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.37 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[yamori813@yahoo.co.jp]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:182.22.90.0/23]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx3.mail.yahoo.co.jp]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; ASN(0.00)[asn:23816, ipnet:182.22.0.0/17, country:JP]; IP_SCORE(0.93)[ipnet: 182.22.0.0/17(2.63), asn: 23816(2.11), country: JP(-0.09)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.co.jp:s=yj20110701]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.85)[0.855,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.998,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[43.90.22.182.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 22:56:00 -0000 =0A=0AHi=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0A>From: Warner Losh =0A>To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" =0A>D= ate: 2018/12/13, Thu 07:15=0A>Subject: Re: MIPS future...=0A> =0A>On Wed, D= ec 12, 2018 at 11:15 AM Warner Losh wrote:=0A>=0A>> OK. To= be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do=A0 a few=0A>> thi= ngs.=0A>>=0A>> First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for= mips64 and=0A>> committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that = I need to commit=0A>> when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight.=0A= >>=0A>> But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up.=0A>>=0A= >> First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not= =0A>> just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available th= ere.=0A>> We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, sto= ring it,=0A>> do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficien= t enough for=0A>> the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have.=0A= >>=0A>> With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit hard= ware.=0A>> We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we nee= ded to do=0A>> too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. Th= ere's little=0A>> benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove= the SWARM_SMP,=0A>> XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option).= =0A>>=0A>> But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image Cre= ator's=0A>> CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 201= 5. This is a=0A>> dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new = that I can find).=0A>> This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less c= apable and more=0A>> expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to d= e-support this=0A>> device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded= to my email. I=0A>> think 12 will have to be the last release we have this= in. Today, the only=0A>> affect is for some drivers that can't run on this= platform, but the writing=0A>> is on the wall.=0A>>=0A>> That brings me to= my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely?=0A>> It's for the BCM= 1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super=0A>> popular beca= use it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. I=0A>> think it= 's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it in=0A>> the = nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my sone=0A>= > was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was o= n=0A>> the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land.=0A>>=0A>> And then there= 's the even larger question: how many people are still using=0A>> mips32? I= t looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for sure, so=0A>> if = you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running FreeBSD=0A= >> 11 or newer on.=0A>>=0A>=0A>There's one last issue this brings up. When = writing the above code, I=0A>discovered I could use the non-racy DI instruc= tion. However, that was=0A>introduced with mips32r2. This was defined in 20= 02 and gear appeared in the=0A>market 2004 or 2005. I believe that all supp= orted SoCs have mips32r2. SWARM=0A>doesn't, which is another reason to kill= it: it's getting in the way and=0A>providing no benefit. Would anybody obj= ect to the minimum ISA being raised=0A>to mips32r2 for all 32-bit mips plat= forms?=0A>=0A>Warner=0A>_______________________________________________=0A>= freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list=0A>https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/= listinfo/freebsd-mips=0A>To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-uns= ubscribe@freebsd.org"=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0Amips32 is called by 4K=0Amips32r2 is= called by 24K=0A=0AIn current FreeBSD mips support at 4K is Rakink RT2880 = and Atheros=0AAR531x. Ralink RT3050 later and Newer Atheros is 24K or 74K.= =0A=0A=0AAlso Broadcom BCM4712 and BCM5354 is 4K but it's still hangup. Las= t=0ABroadcom MIPS soc that is BCM4718 and BCM5357 is 74K.=0A=0AI have quest= ion. Can do generate 24K code by gcc 4.2.1 and binutils?=0A=0A=0AHiroki Mor= i=0A From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 00:11:55 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF90132B067 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:11:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72c.google.com (mail-qk1-x72c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94DB888709 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:11:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72c.google.com with SMTP id q70so149193qkh.6 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 16:11:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AeXtHP2FGTXP2q1DW5UOUD90HNq59XQzxDxVZpjCDms=; b=epelE65G7uCO0KLb8aKFNRSBdkgajED6d7gsnIbV+xwa/ozHvnjCPtBRxTozBfiFPF cQ+ggRnAQVvwJ8IEEWd6vABSxwCaO7v0Fhbd/NiBZNdgXySX93LA42qJpneWo/Z+4082 9rKtj2WDFDZvfA++Bd6XODO5pyV1S+mi78UowLdbnD9r0ozmHM9dhWzzKmw6e+/TyyYp tA7hQHsIib81xrY92z1L01IaYiEaDY2JN4GpvsyoV/6XQdt3RDdy+oNCcRCeJ8iY7GDj JBiHElmw3q1oeuOJ+a67izzYCk28yJEeTLk6LdO3h+atlGnYsGFZK2jIMssSyv3i/Zxc Fgkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AeXtHP2FGTXP2q1DW5UOUD90HNq59XQzxDxVZpjCDms=; b=UkPqqng5WZQGvknesfPvA+J/KWox2wddtwM6lRMKrRsQRDAF8hP+iX5h/zkHBQENNk vdTCyl37zCmMmZjQCfl9w0CdJvo06drr9q1DnVqE5P32XCU/wtPu51wDXSbVy77Nbs6J e5lBPUTtO96IcuZCpGr8IDn3HL6mnWcdi9fKzym6XzRoY95pwuJoqhqYNSZ5DJlJxEtY 8R5C4RM8A1UPkzK/VxPOmrxqjneS6GTCMj/IFJKP4yD2GbxlWujiacN+7gMPWdrSAMQl ZuT1K5eFTAPMREjQFiXWeNQsNcebw++Efty/nGgRz36wad8Lc10iGtXjqEt2Ub+i2YK4 qxAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYMmYavol9OV8q+77Sudjrv3obgiEdpx/1XZm9mlWq2PPjRoneq PbPpIgE0/4PCntFO8HNqEgRtMMPWvg5WjAIZEwbTvQ34 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/W7YjrPxMvzYUB/F3PG+G+fIsy++LgEQAMuXpmNSfC6uJJ5jZ67jF7vwGs4K2v4T+stQh8PIjQmcW1vXZqRZz0= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9201:: with SMTP id u1mr20897448qkd.258.1544659913865; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 16:11:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <367298.45441.qm@web103901.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <367298.45441.qm@web103901.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:11:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: Mori Hiroki Cc: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 94DB888709 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=epelE65G X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.49 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.990,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[c.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.50)[ip: (-9.57), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.57), asn: 15169(-1.29), country: US(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 00:11:55 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 3:53 PM Mori Hiroki wrote: > > > Hi > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: Warner Losh > >To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" > >Date: 2018/12/13, Thu 07:15 > >Subject: Re: MIPS future... > > > >On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > >> OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few > >> things. > >> > >> First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 and > >> committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to > commit > >> when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. > >> > >> But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. > >> > >> First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not > >> just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available > there. > >> We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing > it, > >> do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough > for > >> the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. > >> > >> With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit hardware. > >> We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we needed to > do > >> too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. There's little > >> benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove the SWARM_SMP, > >> XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option). > >> > >> But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image Creator's > >> CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 2015. This > is a > >> dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new that I can > find). > >> This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less capable and more > >> expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to de-support this > >> device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded to my email. I > >> think 12 will have to be the last release we have this in. Today, the > only > >> affect is for some drivers that can't run on this platform, but the > writing > >> is on the wall. > >> > >> That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? > >> It's for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was > super > >> popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. > I > >> think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it > in > >> the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my > sone > >> was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was > on > >> the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. > >> > >> And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still > using > >> mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for > sure, so > >> if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running > FreeBSD > >> 11 or newer on. > >> > > > >There's one last issue this brings up. When writing the above code, I > >discovered I could use the non-racy DI instruction. However, that was > >introduced with mips32r2. This was defined in 2002 and gear appeared in > the > >market 2004 or 2005. I believe that all supported SoCs have mips32r2. > SWARM > >doesn't, which is another reason to kill it: it's getting in the way and > >providing no benefit. Would anybody object to the minimum ISA being raised > >to mips32r2 for all 32-bit mips platforms? > > > >Warner > >_______________________________________________ > >freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list > >https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mips > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > mips32 is called by 4K > mips32r2 is called by 24K > > In current FreeBSD mips support at 4K is Rakink RT2880 and Atheros > AR531x. Ralink RT3050 later and Newer Atheros is 24K or 74K. > OK. That's good to know. The AR531x boards generally are under-provisioned for memory, and somewhat slow. The RT2880 appears to be in the same class. I'd be quite surprised if anybody could do anything non-trivial with those boards. Also Broadcom BCM4712 and BCM5354 is 4K but it's still hangup. Last > Broadcom MIPS soc that is BCM4718 and BCM5357 is 74K. > So the older SENTRY5 chips, which weren't all that common, but which are definitely mips4k chips. They are only a little better than the AR531x chips. The newer BCM stuff still looks relevant. Thanks for the pointers. I have question. Can do generate 24K code by gcc 4.2.1 and binutils? > I think that adding the following to the config file makeoptions ARCH_FLAGS="-march=mips32r2" comes close. You may need too add -EL if it's little endian. The only other config file tagged MIPS4k is GXEMUL, which may have run its useful lifetime in FreeBSD as well. Warner P.S. I'll post a summary of the implications of mips32"r1" removal if there's any opposition. From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 01:04:51 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E63E132CB4C for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:04:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 444318A1B4 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:04:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wBD14QLB060911 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 13 Dec 2018 02:04:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: imp@bsdimp.com Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id wBD14P54038412 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 13 Dec 2018 08:04:25 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: Warner Losh , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" References: From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <8da9f5d2-e33e-0f55-7f30-3344ccf5f0a7@grosbein.net> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 08:04:17 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 444318A1B4 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=permerror (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eugen@grosbein.net uses mechanism not recognized by this client) smtp.mailfrom=eugen@grosbein.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.38 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_INVALID(0.50)[greylisted]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grosbein.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_PERMFAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.79)[ip: (-3.12), ipnet: 2a01:4f8::/29(-3.31), asn: 24940(-2.51), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:04:51 -0000 13.12.2018 1:15, Warner Losh wrote: > And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still using > mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for sure, so > if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running FreeBSD > 11 or newer on. I have TP-Link TL-WDR4300 https://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/TL-WDR4300.html that is MIPS32 74Kc AR9344 SOC with 8MB on-board flash and 128M RAM that successfully boots to multiuser mode using very old FreeBSD 11-CURRENT. I stopped trying it because its USB support was pretty unstable leading to random panics or just hangs and 8MB are not enough for my purposes without extra USB storage for packages and I could not even fit FreeBSD 12 base system to its internal flash due to siginficantly increased code bloat and ENOTIME to deal with troubles. From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 01:05:22 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18DA132CB6E for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:05:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from juli@northcloak.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FBA78A1F6 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:05:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from juli@northcloak.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id a132so223604qkg.1 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:05:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=northcloak-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=K0wf3LatxWTMwRp168kxjgJyn678yn4/cPpk4y3raU0=; b=aiB/ozSPIaGY6YxMR+nPyEVhrRC4DFDhHjCVQTxBGYPF6kTr58wwn5Yfcl0YFNC4qQ KIGAAMbk4bzLwGtW9X0HWVpQTO/e/KV0J6rMJYuA16JKhPieh61Jk6HaCZdiVt9uAZ7g FL3P5Njc5Yxqiec45TGk9kFcv11KRah7M4g1PGaH814DxjbPtLcPZjbkGMw6CFUipyAO jCcHYb7ISFqMe4j1GtOBxGVXKKGeo+lYyjVTin7NuSs0qQoAk7bdpV1yOFs+g5gazztx soDHTJ+Gu8M28Fqu8QLX5sRiPhXAEpKdyO+c88uUhVmEYRUA5a/iF104nLrOPEZpKyU+ w4SA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=K0wf3LatxWTMwRp168kxjgJyn678yn4/cPpk4y3raU0=; b=agXQAUyJOpYz898CBIUxuZJefsJinAX0Fn6EezlVeOrymjXnU75711xRRaKa5+UDZK TW7mgr/pzNCPAtaHSipy3vrJLSHNqCy+avlc/lUenP32Doa91cqBzNNwWUgweKGJmVhN TWsD962DofVrn2JSicxb+7fYEDR8w35Y0XFT+1ze0umwfTcrJFdK7i5A0uLfFHoaxXw8 GNkW+7x3wj5oFPpSV+XK5STbUYdRJuMJIMcIrPq03QzF1xDhwUcNtL4y2VvYvq6i2V6u MQUdwsmvsxXWWnT9L4PJYroJHyv5WZRPtkCQA9YXGXpYcEQKqqnGd5PzsC+90CzEyYpB giLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZYY7clmQXFdIu4MSc9w4h9T4/bQ/iDU3W7aozc7OoXjW0oimXo UcWqvnbRT/8eNaY0nQvCZBIrZWAGs1v3A9VLyX6nmA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/X9YJE2BG7jUXllh6O55lkGKjXgCgnKj+D/S4bv4oApyp6D+U03HMgIdrrJTBP90HbTsWZXlHcSSqhPd2xLGK0= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9181:: with SMTP id t123mr19602653qkd.187.1544663120468; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:05:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <367298.45441.qm@web103901.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> In-Reply-To: From: Juli Mallett Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:04:44 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: Warner Losh Cc: yamori813@yahoo.co.jp, freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0FBA78A1F6 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=northcloak-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=aiB/ozSP X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[northcloak-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[northcloak.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[northcloak-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ASPMX3.GOOGLEMAIL.com,ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com,ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com,ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com,ASPMX2.GOOGLEMAIL.com,ASPMX5.GOOGLEMAIL.com,ASPMX4.GOOGLEMAIL.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.987,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; IP_SCORE(-2.35)[ip: (-8.81), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.58), asn: 15169(-1.29), country: US(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:05:22 -0000 On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 at 16:12, Warner Losh wrote: > On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 3:53 PM Mori Hiroki wrote: > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Warner Losh > > >To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" > > >Date: 2018/12/13, Thu 07:15 > > >Subject: Re: MIPS future... > > > > > >On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > >> OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few > > >> things. > > >> > > >> First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 > and > > >> committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to > > commit > > >> when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. > > >> > > >> But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. > > >> > > >> First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's > not > > >> just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available > > there. > > >> We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing > > it, > > >> do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough > > for > > >> the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. > > >> > > >> With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit > hardware. > > >> We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we needed to > > do > > >> too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. There's > little > > >> benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove the > SWARM_SMP, > > >> XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option). > > >> > > >> But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image Creator's > > >> CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 2015. This > > is a > > >> dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new that I can > > find). > > >> This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less capable and more > > >> expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to de-support this > > >> device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded to my email. I > > >> think 12 will have to be the last release we have this in. Today, the > > only > > >> affect is for some drivers that can't run on this platform, but the > > writing > > >> is on the wall. > > >> > > >> That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? > > >> It's for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was > > super > > >> popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that > followed. > > I > > >> think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it > > in > > >> the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my > > sone > > >> was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It > was > > on > > >> the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. > > >> > > >> And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still > > using > > >> mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for > > sure, so > > >> if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running > > FreeBSD > > >> 11 or newer on. > > >> > > > > > >There's one last issue this brings up. When writing the above code, I > > >discovered I could use the non-racy DI instruction. However, that was > > >introduced with mips32r2. This was defined in 2002 and gear appeared in > > the > > >market 2004 or 2005. I believe that all supported SoCs have mips32r2. > > SWARM > > >doesn't, which is another reason to kill it: it's getting in the way and > > >providing no benefit. Would anybody object to the minimum ISA being > raised > > >to mips32r2 for all 32-bit mips platforms? > > > > > >Warner > > >_______________________________________________ > > >freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list > > >https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mips > > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > > > > > > > > > mips32 is called by 4K > > mips32r2 is called by 24K > I would note that although MIPS (the company) pushed this naming for a period in the '00s, it can be confusing, because the R4000 (which was widely called R4K or sometimes even just 4K), which was the basis for a lot of MIPS CPUs, is actually MIPS-III (or mips3 in modern parlance, but I'm trapped in the '90s), and 64-bit rather than 32-bit. MIPS32, of course, is actually MIPS-III narrowed to 32-bit, plus a little extra. This leads some people to assume that MIPS32 came first, and then there were 64-bit CPUs, but this is not so. MIPS-III was 64-bit, R4000 was 64-bit, as were R4400, and all of the SGI CPUs and many third-party MIPS ISA CPUs of the late '90s. So I would slightly discourage use of the "4K" moniker and rather suggest using the ISA names, even though those confuse people, too, as consistently as possible, in a thread where bit-width, modernness, etc., are on the table. > > In current FreeBSD mips support at 4K is Rakink RT2880 and Atheros > > AR531x. Ralink RT3050 later and Newer Atheros is 24K or 74K. > > > > OK. That's good to know. The AR531x boards generally are under-provisioned > for memory, and somewhat slow. The RT2880 appears to be in the same class. > I'd be quite surprised if anybody could do anything non-trivial with those > boards. > > Also Broadcom BCM4712 and BCM5354 is 4K but it's still hangup. Last > > Broadcom MIPS soc that is BCM4718 and BCM5357 is 74K. > > > > So the older SENTRY5 chips, which weren't all that common, but which are > definitely mips4k chips. They are only a little better than the AR531x > chips. The newer BCM stuff still looks relevant. Thanks for the pointers. > > I have question. Can do generate 24K code by gcc 4.2.1 and binutils? > > > > I think that adding the following to the config file > makeoptions ARCH_FLAGS="-march=mips32r2" > comes close. You may need too add -EL if it's little endian. > > The only other config file tagged MIPS4k is GXEMUL, which may have run its > useful lifetime in FreeBSD as well. > > Warner > > P.S. I'll post a summary of the implications of mips32"r1" removal if > there's any opposition. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mips > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 01:27:12 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1018F132F619 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:27:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E94A28B327 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:27:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id o89so250882qko.0 for ; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:27:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=T1WaSPTWrJ+ejP9ZtsTyDJfYfQY7If5rCRGexXiIdLs=; b=oDCWLMI1Bbp7VO5iGQUDCwWpIVLFjNnKaD1ylTgWKt7kLjeFLUeKbqUusSAjkYv9zD D9KbTnTZPwREw3jaEfb38YS93gyIQqdbr+LJfR0jORIULLV9z0xPLVLsXIZh7rR+ZhyJ IV9iq4lL/qaqeo25HYvSEG1qwHR5qxeH8lLdUQLQs04qxz5wdlBjFzIriXxGt9XYChqe LmeO54LOqDaMLSK2fLmAVXpHQP5YA3gC7+HnWGModYyIFXmimKW26KV9D2HwTqfi5GIH 7hZRcbRIbf/2+m1MMHgGmiKlj7nIMnEmcMBbOzixUjL30mYqba8bz1yD6r2uapzbnP6A 9PGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=T1WaSPTWrJ+ejP9ZtsTyDJfYfQY7If5rCRGexXiIdLs=; b=qtMAnwlo/OGHbYJTky1YT0EZ5Xdn8s82dGsbkPHYTX/9rCsfLLOvtiUYO8eRhPrJZr Ce8BKrHofJiCC5wA7JOIAK8DA/VpxcfGagAh7Tl7GNX7MRknVWrA3yBwBohbd3hkSBSD OpQ4q0HDh7Be+VzlccEzjXQzoezgZGv1mqM12ktz/sgfmtFNQ1Pi+2XFeCpwCn+Sp/cS 9B1hF8fiNRKhFmdnEz3imFdndDu5EAOQFEPg+RNAjhCQqFTwp1lPIbkFu27zmwMXVxO5 JUolkP45kAldeB1T5F0jMWJkzy+4f3HjMvC0OHmKlRErNurBxPGqFGk+K6Y07FQqpAy2 K2OA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWY/wstCv1fSebaLgVym3gcw6y22z8d3TUYk5c4TA1ee/Ibyo2IY 4wnHO37JIiqIBJxN2jG560biTJRAe7X8EjxzUeAqWg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VxcKmR8TqN6EHrp/r5tr4CgIIbSB4nW9OlTFxCtlTo1RrkW01BAdsmyQKsgk0q26mTAGAwlHYoqhmpher6XPU= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6e86:: with SMTP id j128mr21049330qkc.46.1544664430343; Wed, 12 Dec 2018 17:27:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <367298.45441.qm@web103901.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:26:59 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: Juli Mallett Cc: Mori Hiroki , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E94A28B327 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=oDCWLMI1 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.91 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-1.91)[ip: (-6.60), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.58), asn: 15169(-1.29), country: US(-0.09)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 01:27:12 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 6:05 PM Juli Mallett wrote: > On Wed, 12 Dec 2018 at 16:12, Warner Losh wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 3:53 PM Mori Hiroki >> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > Hi >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > >From: Warner Losh >> > >To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" >> > >Date: 2018/12/13, Thu 07:15 >> > >Subject: Re: MIPS future... >> > > >> > >On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15 AM Warner Losh wrote: >> > > >> > >> OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a >> few >> > >> things. >> > >> >> > >> First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 >> and >> > >> committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to >> > commit >> > >> when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. >> > >> >> > >> But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. >> > >> >> > >> First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's >> not >> > >> just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available >> > there. >> > >> We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing >> > it, >> > >> do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough >> > for >> > >> the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. >> > >> >> > >> With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit >> hardware. >> > >> We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we needed >> to >> > do >> > >> too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. There's >> little >> > >> benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove the >> SWARM_SMP, >> > >> XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option). >> > >> >> > >> But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image >> Creator's >> > >> CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 2015. >> This >> > is a >> > >> dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new that I can >> > find). >> > >> This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less capable and more >> > >> expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to de-support this >> > >> device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded to my email. >> I >> > >> think 12 will have to be the last release we have this in. Today, the >> > only >> > >> affect is for some drivers that can't run on this platform, but the >> > writing >> > >> is on the wall. >> > >> >> > >> That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM >> entirely? >> > >> It's for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was >> > super >> > >> popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that >> followed. >> > I >> > >> think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of >> it >> > in >> > >> the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before >> my >> > sone >> > >> was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It >> was >> > on >> > >> the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. >> > >> >> > >> And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still >> > using >> > >> mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for >> > sure, so >> > >> if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running >> > FreeBSD >> > >> 11 or newer on. >> > >> >> > > >> > >There's one last issue this brings up. When writing the above code, I >> > >discovered I could use the non-racy DI instruction. However, that was >> > >introduced with mips32r2. This was defined in 2002 and gear appeared in >> > the >> > >market 2004 or 2005. I believe that all supported SoCs have mips32r2. >> > SWARM >> > >doesn't, which is another reason to kill it: it's getting in the way >> and >> > >providing no benefit. Would anybody object to the minimum ISA being >> raised >> > >to mips32r2 for all 32-bit mips platforms? >> > > >> > >Warner >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list >> > >https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mips >> > >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >> " >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > mips32 is called by 4K >> > mips32r2 is called by 24K >> > > I would note that although MIPS (the company) pushed this naming for a > period in the '00s, it can be confusing, because the R4000 (which was > widely called R4K or sometimes even just 4K), which was the basis for a lot > of MIPS CPUs, is actually MIPS-III (or mips3 in modern parlance, but I'm > trapped in the '90s), and 64-bit rather than 32-bit. MIPS32, of course, is > actually MIPS-III narrowed to 32-bit, plus a little extra. This leads some > people to assume that MIPS32 came first, and then there were 64-bit CPUs, > but this is not so. MIPS-III was 64-bit, R4000 was 64-bit, as were R4400, > and all of the SGI CPUs and many third-party MIPS ISA CPUs of the late '90s. > > So I would slightly discourage use of the "4K" moniker and rather suggest > using the ISA names, even though those confuse people, too, as consistently > as possible, in a thread where bit-width, modernness, etc., are on the > table. > True enough, later in my reply. I should have said 'mips4kc' since that's the core name that implements the 'mips32' ISA. I agree this is just about as confusing a set of conflicting naming conventions that could exist. Warner > > In current FreeBSD mips support at 4K is Rakink RT2880 and Atheros >> > AR531x. Ralink RT3050 later and Newer Atheros is 24K or 74K. >> > >> >> OK. That's good to know. The AR531x boards generally are under-provisioned >> for memory, and somewhat slow. The RT2880 appears to be in the same class. >> I'd be quite surprised if anybody could do anything non-trivial with those >> boards. >> >> Also Broadcom BCM4712 and BCM5354 is 4K but it's still hangup. Last >> > Broadcom MIPS soc that is BCM4718 and BCM5357 is 74K. >> > >> >> So the older SENTRY5 chips, which weren't all that common, but which are >> definitely mips4k chips. They are only a little better than the AR531x >> chips. The newer BCM stuff still looks relevant. Thanks for the pointers. >> >> I have question. Can do generate 24K code by gcc 4.2.1 and binutils? >> > >> >> I think that adding the following to the config file >> makeoptions ARCH_FLAGS="-march=mips32r2" >> comes close. You may need too add -EL if it's little endian. >> >> The only other config file tagged MIPS4k is GXEMUL, which may have run its >> useful lifetime in FreeBSD as well. >> >> Warner >> >> P.S. I'll post a summary of the implications of mips32"r1" removal if >> there's any opposition. >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-mips@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-mips >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-mips-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 10:37:22 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC981316378 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:37:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD9AE818F9 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:37:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id EB0B03C475F; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:37:12 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:37:12 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: MIPS future... Message-ID: <20181213103712.GA49957@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DD9AE818F9 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.03 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[spindle.one-eyed-alien.net]; MX_MISSING(3.50)[requested record is not found]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[brooks@freebsd.org,brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:199.48.128.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[brooks@freebsd.org,brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.47), ipnet: 199.48.128.0/22(-4.73), asn: 36236(-3.92), country: US(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:37:22 -0000 --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15:06AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few > things. >=20 > First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 and > committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to commit > when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. >=20 > But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. >=20 > First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not > just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available there. > We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing it, > do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough for > the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. I think we have to do this no matter how expensive it is or kill 32-bit mips. There is no way there are enough 32-bit mips users to justify even the minor level of developer friction the unr64 caused. > That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? It= 's > for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super > popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. I > think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it in > the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my so= ne > was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was on > the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. It looks like it's a sibyte platform if I read the config files correctly. If so, I seriously doubt it works reliably under meaningful, multi-process load. We built at sibyte-like PIC for BERI and there were quite a few WTF moments as we adapted to code. I don't have strong opinions on the other platforms. I know we haven't used GXEMUL in at least 5 years on our projects. Qemu and the MALTA config does everything we need. -- Brooks --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJcEjZYAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAVo8H/iT6ix1kvvT3vx0mkslVNmze 3ojD72efSze8BJpqNYh0eeSmr2e5dIKupcTDrAAKL97hzK0+6gATexJ4WFHkPokg g/ILwcHETpEkyYLw/TckODzAYo8j/YeOK4NQ8/QS4S417o7oAT3KOHfqJp6dFGKR Hb5qBTqxA1/+l+KG/LwxHgHQjN93BaCylhgyOpjuPMChXhwZTGrg33V7jH0pVz66 +k3j+xBdNTO5xUE/Quj12Cfi/NjSTVDOwINRVGRQYz+xtVUWnEfMQnpNHUoVMd3M B2pq98f09kisi1IkfXJ/+H1TcFRZheYMLuXJq1lCiuG4WibOE1nyvxOUHsDF8oM= =Y8Gn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X-- From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 15:21:39 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D402213289E9 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 15:21:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22A5E8C66C for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 15:21:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id k12so2499399qtf.7 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:21:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7zYIr1/kWeajdPIr65dWESZxt3yfBK0AT+Ot3VAIkqQ=; b=pcaMeEHGXUBiODEHsQSr7eJcSfdpBMehi5LAqoUVgLD9NaGdRbfAYuRB6W7ql3OE3x IWY+Pqwe6rdisMNIgeksYxSti0BHOUjOWrrIf96pMMAxplUqTRQDpgqqCuoRdew2kp3l 2X+FravNjPmTaiKhOMRsBPoWYbXm5gXHAKXa4KSdSiztlHalTLC7SuGF5D5rAqUvHYoi +NQdQ4Po/79d6APBQyNNYDsOeoaf9WGvBLu/MxiREfuSfabM/c60ScaPay13UVCa4FJg bXjURWiwOqcxFRsYBZAPfPm7RKqwHokkLccspuI49srXv1s9vHVhkxOJeyJt0Uoi+TG6 7UdA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7zYIr1/kWeajdPIr65dWESZxt3yfBK0AT+Ot3VAIkqQ=; b=Jquwia/adZoE74EBgH7ZWPSAT7cB9cK8KTNTlKQwEmEV83jJLtL3f4moHBgt9Hw/yj E/VLvJ0SXMTYOQyAiNUDRgCHefR5+P8FMuowfFg8KXGgdJ1hO4RQ7YwuRh+qPaW28DHV Wrm16VRwAjiwcQyQJohFhK4zX6gtaARdPh04SVsi4OPs85VUPcbewaRegp3OEshDIAlj nNzidmkewjBJd3nlS6pPtTHH2APt91G7fkexHl6kLTnlqhYeDqLuVcgvlVIYUn3UK/D3 jA8yddsziIlXa0afurAy+nCCE5EqJQP6pAVPyXIBK+o1foXPqBXwUzx0LPzmuMFun5Th wVew== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYrcK+Mm3qr9vAnioNmbV6xbiYqHaGqlo5zVl4+NpujCccDIt7B yQc8nGEYhDwg2R13zRfYjr1j/VB94p8wsGkyb2WaaQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WeHoz7mhVOE6Xen7JaZHgEN23Qasp2+rUhoI7nhsyxHvcLQuBXtKycj8Q/kF/4V1m82Vn47CqpoMmJtCG5Rnw= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:42c1:: with SMTP id g1mr161121qtm.118.1544714497335; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 07:21:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181213103712.GA49957@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <20181213103712.GA49957@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 08:21:20 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: Brooks Davis Cc: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 22A5E8C66C X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=pcaMeEHG X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.96 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.882,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[d.2.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.07)[ip: (-7.41), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.58), asn: 15169(-1.30), country: US(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 15:21:39 -0000 On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 3:37 AM Brooks Davis On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15:06AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few > > things. > > > > First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 and > > committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to > commit > > when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. > > > > But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. > > > > First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not > > just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available there. > > We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing it, > > do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough for > > the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. > > I think we have to do this no matter how expensive it is or kill 32-bit > mips. There is no way there are enough 32-bit mips users to justify > even the minor level of developer friction the unr64 caused. > Yes. That's the plan. The question is how. And part of that how is giving up on mips32 ISA (and requiring mips32r2 or newer). So I'll be doing that. We have one SMP platform for 32bit mips that will have to die. It is only 4 years old, but the design never caught on. > That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? > It's > > for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super > > popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. I > > think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it in > > the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my > sone > > was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was > on > > the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. > > It looks like it's a sibyte platform if I read the config files > correctly. If so, I seriously doubt it works reliably under meaningful, > multi-process load. We built at sibyte-like PIC for BERI and there were > quite a few WTF moments as we adapted to code. > That confirms my expectations. It was shakey back in the day, and it can only be worse now... I don't have strong opinions on the other platforms. I know we haven't > used GXEMUL in at least 5 years on our projects. Qemu and the MALTA > config does everything we need. > Ok. I think gxemul users have moved to qemu and the burden of supporting two emulators is too great. Warner > From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 17:45:49 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE81C132E14D for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 17:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A4F46AB47; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 17:45:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id wBDHjWOH079863; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 09:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id wBDHjWbT079862; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 09:45:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201812131745.wBDHjWbT079862@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: MIPS future... In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 09:45:31 -0800 (PST) CC: Brooks Davis , freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0A4F46AB47 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.87 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.23)[0.232,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.77)[0.774,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.03)[asn: 13868(-0.04), country: US(-0.09)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 17:45:50 -0000 > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 3:37 AM Brooks Davis > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15:06AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few > > > things. > > > > > > First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 and > > > committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to > > commit > > > when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. > > > > > > But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. > > > > > > First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not > > > just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available there. > > > We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing it, > > > do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough for > > > the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. > > > > I think we have to do this no matter how expensive it is or kill 32-bit > > mips. There is no way there are enough 32-bit mips users to justify > > even the minor level of developer friction the unr64 caused. > > > > Yes. That's the plan. The question is how. And part of that how is giving > up on mips32 ISA (and requiring mips32r2 or newer). So I'll be doing that. > We have one SMP platform for 32bit mips that will have to die. It is only 4 > years old, but the design never caught on. Please verify that none of the MIPS based router (wifi-build, and router project) stuff is killed, these are usefull, and I believe active work is going on in both. Last time I played with wifi-build I was able to boot a 8MB image on a d-link router and had a working implementation, this was when 12 was head. Sean Bruno may know about here, he was the one that fixed some of the issues I had run into since Adrian Chad is just too busy with "life and kids :-)". > > > That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? > > It's > > > for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super > > > popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. I > > > think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it in > > > the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my > > sone > > > was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was > > on > > > the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. > > > > It looks like it's a sibyte platform if I read the config files > > correctly. If so, I seriously doubt it works reliably under meaningful, > > multi-process load. We built at sibyte-like PIC for BERI and there were > > quite a few WTF moments as we adapted to code. > > > > That confirms my expectations. It was shakey back in the day, and it can > only be worse now... > > I don't have strong opinions on the other platforms. I know we haven't > > used GXEMUL in at least 5 years on our projects. Qemu and the MALTA > > config does everything we need. > > > > Ok. I think gxemul users have moved to qemu and the burden of supporting > two emulators is too great. > > Warner -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 18:12:58 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 770FA132F1CE for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 18:12:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADED56BAF9 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 18:12:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id a132so1698346qkg.1 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:12:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=J2KBYTmjsMH7TAi4jjjgTOlB4MF4ceHc3ie/n1niX/M=; b=e+VgsvTLI32A50X3/FwHFfOspxzyHMmtD5EH6qh05WP4FAyYfLyzGkWhEcJqdZuyod nTN5yrfgmGgUjRxvR8a6+MGSUOyStqAASNR71a6KTIJCYRqvVvcuMLKakgvT285wWxBz affm8AOYUnHy9zcRR62JqjffOHI1mLpY2jOG+rEd53njT3amqYKaldZcN7jBcKuavKtS klS2sutesmAJpvMAze8O7lchoAlWRFXQ03mnl95wyUroWRwFeT+25W0cd2/BgB6hJxyh xD7XkS+G5L7Hiy76AjJKwmJNCoA4nPbB26+vDf7S5wukkhsRd/IA4WYZ8F36gaUNY9pH +Wxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=J2KBYTmjsMH7TAi4jjjgTOlB4MF4ceHc3ie/n1niX/M=; b=p8ZtiD/CEy59uqk+9ReBk5zdPg2D/QuyUwTknyZ48I61e+07v/J33fKysuCO+pHJTi Gt9GWHKAefoIC7trvXlccQazl4kHmIfBie7hH9p8i/h1bUAVPTnFaBGpNHMspy5cDab9 lxrbqeILSqj0YzTJ+QbSiU9gEMwdHeQ65roI3fhUNPONg0FIdC3czzufwf/9GfGky6o1 4s3l6dQTg9JO9db1M0eUyBGOmLjUfDsZx4iIdzbLbJomaNQ6/BcUHo6E5NNjAroW+5QP R3/gYGcVmq5h9uLvJxZtwVM5MDebdfPxUAXgy61RaqAPKDISDMeoDcDcMpSifRFFgcJp Dq3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbWyF35e575+TUQ64j+SBxU/Nn8KueOA0B3BZOAR70nXUzhCV69 V2986EOvxP+28hBQVQz3Px95XjcB1PlWScY1CAyPyA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VTzM7K4vqy9C37BzuhCSw9Rox021kwrmwv/1ALt2VAq3XAgWOa918zQxvD29+zOxFHOa18WIjgsnVF3gYmxek= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6e86:: with SMTP id j128mr23778727qkc.46.1544724776862; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:12:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201812131745.wBDHjWbT079862@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201812131745.wBDHjWbT079862@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 11:12:45 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Brooks Davis , "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ADED56BAF9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=e+VgsvTL X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.28 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.908,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.37)[ip: (-8.85), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.59), asn: 15169(-1.30), country: US(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 18:12:58 -0000 On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 10:45 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 3:37 AM Brooks Davis > > > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15:06AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a > few > > > > things. > > > > > > > > First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 > and > > > > committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to > > > commit > > > > when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. > > > > > > > > But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. > > > > > > > > First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's > not > > > > just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available > there. > > > > We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, > storing it, > > > > do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient > enough for > > > > the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. > > > > > > I think we have to do this no matter how expensive it is or kill 32-bit > > > mips. There is no way there are enough 32-bit mips users to justify > > > even the minor level of developer friction the unr64 caused. > > > > > > > Yes. That's the plan. The question is how. And part of that how is giving > > up on mips32 ISA (and requiring mips32r2 or newer). So I'll be doing > that. > > We have one SMP platform for 32bit mips that will have to die. It is > only 4 > > years old, but the design never caught on. > > Please verify that none of the MIPS based router (wifi-build, and > router project) stuff is killed, these are usefull, and I believe > active work is going on in both. > Give me some credit. I've already done that. None of the useful ones are affected. I've articulated the full list elsewhere. Basically the oldest Atheros stuff (The abg 180MHz AR53xx from 12 years ago) and the oldest Raylink stuff (first gen n 266MHz RT2880 from 9 or 10 years ago) are the only ones that this specific thing affects. The newer ones won't be affected. They are on the edge, but likely still useful to deploy. Last time I played with wifi-build I was able to boot a 8MB image > on a d-link router and had a working implementation, this was when > 12 was head. > But were you able to do more than just play with it? Things that small simply are too small. One CAN boot, but it's really hard to do things with it. So almost nobody does more than play with the extreme low end. Most of the routers I'm talking about didn't have more than 16MB of RAM typically with insufficient ROM to anything but store the naked kernel. There's much better choices available today cheap, and it's better we don't try to support them because the effort is kinda high and the reward from supporting niche hardware from a decade ago is almost zero. > Sean Bruno may know about here, he was the one that fixed some > of the issues I had run into since Adrian Chad is just too busy > with "life and kids :-)". > Yup. They are subscribed to the list. They can chime in if they care. Warner > > > > > That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? > > > It's > > > > for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super > > > > popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that > followed. I > > > > think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of > it in > > > > the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before > my > > > sone > > > > was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It > was > > > on > > > > the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. > > > > > > It looks like it's a sibyte platform if I read the config files > > > correctly. If so, I seriously doubt it works reliably under > meaningful, > > > multi-process load. We built at sibyte-like PIC for BERI and there > were > > > quite a few WTF moments as we adapted to code. > > > > > > > That confirms my expectations. It was shakey back in the day, and it can > > only be worse now... > > > > I don't have strong opinions on the other platforms. I know we haven't > > > used GXEMUL in at least 5 years on our projects. Qemu and the MALTA > > > config does everything we need. > > > > > > > Ok. I think gxemul users have moved to qemu and the burden of supporting > > two emulators is too great. > > > > Warner > > -- > Rod Grimes > rgrimes@freebsd.org > From owner-freebsd-mips@freebsd.org Thu Dec 13 20:00:54 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-mips@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649861332765 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 20:00:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB78C6FA4A for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 20:00:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id o89so1912151qko.0 for ; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 12:00:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=gViqBm8tYwfMh3i+NU29VZOXwAz2ApMlkKhbMq9tCQc=; b=AMHiFxIKETktbV/3gPRcNlL05wLADHU/K1culPi43jk+AsbX/fL8DaSsEkDFfSZ0n9 2riNC7o+8Gy3ahnVpjXIMaSx/nkx5p+qGDJltZdNwvq0vfNtvrBd/4errabrCfnwHBzE SPH6Fgy2DulteSsGEtDpKEE6Yh0qmiDuHWTIw6ZVSTe13+Sz8et7v8r1g0ZSjwURQxEF MvntTExG1BlSdsZah4pKr30JQNgepRn3oH1G8e4g8CsmOugxMiibjP4/3KyqruJkFWtN d0PLqiIzx/sEHG6/ERMjbv0YVh3VUYt+7O/ACQehj6j15oTtikHmt9653CoQ+847OqU0 lCeQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=gViqBm8tYwfMh3i+NU29VZOXwAz2ApMlkKhbMq9tCQc=; b=hglD0AVeAVBl3uH8g3mQDiX+tklVRvF+fjuyCPzNppEwNw5YX463ON+LFWJUjlh750 EIanXVOPrygT8kjv+REJxoQo94JsNRghvNR6SlXevvsmFN4kjExkIGJ13fyahrMN6cWu yGc3Usqwt3Wj+SJYqFNTmRr1ooYuHPNZEhOoIWttn+9doBh/AMBC8PjGhAk8GF+9u7OM D+UQnq3pEwWYTzVbPvV6LCs1w3fs4kaZ0grlv19pWnXAbyVXyO642Y2uNCIVnw138N+Q LMMt3Gx/XeHyjQefFKYBiFw3a/IlpOZ4+CDPVH4PJmyq7ll5w36BpkDDqHrjQQpzofEJ qqhw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbRF/Bnj3WReCC2krrsC1U2qXIMaxDm9O7QuQADGSj3ki1CHeSy EdupcHnJ4B8Kdj6MLE9F+NN9zdZVuaw9seAJiwzj/rmzTwc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/Wzbx5Lw3MOHejECgSV9XZp8NcoYVn+3nULMcgev/z3IZu1/p6O9Wy5UEVspW2haBguf5cZnVUtvOzZPIUqvFg= X-Received: by 2002:a37:9201:: with SMTP id u1mr157619qkd.258.1544731252846; Thu, 13 Dec 2018 12:00:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 13:00:41 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: MIPS future... To: "freebsd-mips@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AB78C6FA4A X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=AMHiFxIK X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.25 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.970,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-mips@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.33)[ip: (-8.68), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.59), asn: 15169(-1.31), country: US(-0.09)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,ALT2.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.934,0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-mips@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to MIPS List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 20:00:54 -0000 On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 11:15 AM Warner Losh wrote: > OK. To be a good player in the FreeBSD ecosystem, we need to do a few > things. > > First, we need to implement atomic_swap_64. hps did this for mips64 and > committed it. He sent me some further patches for it that I need to commit > when I get a change, maybe at the airport tonight. > > But this brings up a couple of issues I'd like to bring up. > > First, to implement atomic_swap_64 on mips-32 is hard. In that it's not > just the canonical ldd/sdd sequence because those aren't available there. > We can do the standard trick of reading STATUS0, clearing IE, storing it, > do the operation and then restoring STATUS0. This is efficient enough for > the use in the kernel for the supported cores we have. > > With two exceptions. First is running 32-bit kernels on 64-bit hardware. > We deprecated that with Octeon because of the weird hacks we needed to do > too make it work. I'd like to universally deprecate this. There's little > benefit and a real cost to doing this. I'd like to remove the SWARM_SMP, > XLP, and GXEMUL32 (or at least remove the smp option). > > But there's JZ4780. It's a legit mips32 + SMP. It's on Image Creator's > CI20. This was released in Nov 2014 with a refresh in March 2015. This is a > dead-end product line (there's no new cores and none new that I can find). > This was a RPi competitor, but it was slower, less capable and more > expensive so it's kinda rare now. I'd say we need to de-support this > device. I know of only one user, and he's not responded to my email. I > think 12 will have to be the last release we have this in. Today, the only > affect is for some drivers that can't run on this platform, but the writing > is on the wall. > > That brings me to my next question: SWARM. Can we kill SWARM entirely? > It's for the BCM1250 part, released in sometime before 2000. It was super > popular because it was the reference for a ton of things that followed. I > think it's run is over and we can remove it. I can find no users of it in > the nyc dmesg database. Mine has been in a plastic bag since before my sone > was born in 2006... So I'm thinking we can remove this platform. It was on > the edge last time I did a GC in mips-land. > > And then there's the even larger question: how many people are still using > mips32? It looks like a fair number, maybe, but I have no idea for sure, so > if you do, please provide feedback on the platforms you are running FreeBSD > 11 or newer on. > I've done a preliminary pass at removing this old support. I've included the mips32 ISA (generally the MIPS4Kc core) removal as well. It's a big review, but I've chopped it into individual commits in case one of them winds up being backed out: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18543 Warner