From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 10:01:58 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A556810BA670; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:01:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1337A7BD64; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:01:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id u21-v6so2423256lja.8; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 03:01:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:date:to:subject:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7Rw35KPz6G+tl+6izSleVLSL+v6W9t5yNBi+m0IzUxE=; b=d0Eo6Hl3zL+9NkK2gzbKzYseGa0xB3lmGBNou9ha02PjlbjUCnwRP5AufiY9R4I6LQ Ers52R4E1aluLWpV21TP40W1JcIUtckDvS2FO1t8U83XgCxQxy1QggNylOuMQqO+QlCB eB6NIEAs/xHo320BGAKlv+g0R2pCuichJVsMmYm6ZzfdQuKvhfXAeCe9AhwDN15t1tfn 3yVVP7e0/MawE5PaLdKyNMPBpa6BE8lawZQcnZzA9O8ac72DrMvLqOkz9/BGW/tuhkJe B4+1wjQYhqx9PFfU1tTtSFxP09btDjc5ods2rEilSiTjUOayQlO3ntp/LFyoeirMD6gh x8tQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:subject:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=7Rw35KPz6G+tl+6izSleVLSL+v6W9t5yNBi+m0IzUxE=; b=cEZ4zxodsNRKujXtaajNXAxXCOALoVLOGX0zY/NXAJcynl+oGJRKZ1qLkncxvabvVX MVIEGa02D4hXjTrOgP55pG/r6g5ydRjzlc1nfISASTY949/lI+QNmAYYPp9qOvpewS7V agsUWIpbltILSxMBmZFqNQuh+9jih5zBiq1pXpRClS/hrCFOnCmBqtGyV2Da0gp3umtw VgFwkBeuLxAXqPbwyoZrcAt0RPttxSbF8x8m43Vh447iuvmbmu62lBodYp+NIitKs0JX WmaclsCyjRa7dTbJn79ug/kirCintA8iOOx3j07Q7DBWn8O7cNffa85xam+eEMZePGwo hMSA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojXUBdoOlzLy0G4u9uf4v7brswDiXmpR7FcpM/4RYw/zs85b2s5 8THnLqmbcVSLTP5ijzHWn5S85Uej X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV621geLD9v7ywOdK6awGJriwrtGIDiuI3l6YMMMMHvTM/xYU6ifl9WyuC5RV2tk2oNszVL2u3Q== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:c3:: with SMTP id e64-v6mr3473867lji.103.1538301715909; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 03:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2001:470:1f15:3d8:7285:c2ff:fe37:5722]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e21-v6sm1542453lfb.52.2018.09.30.03.01.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 03:01:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:01:49 +0300 To: freebsd-hackers , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Stable Subject: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:01:58 -0000 Hello! Is this graphics supported? A10-9700 Bristol Ridge Radeon R7 vgapci0@pci0:0:1:0: class=0x030000 card=0x1e201002 chip=0x98741002 rev=0xe2 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' device = 'Wani [Radeon R5/R6/R7 Graphics]' class = display subclass = VGA From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 17:04:31 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6911097DF8; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:04:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x335.google.com (mail-ot1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAE748A817; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:04:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id q4-v6so10660507otf.13; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:04:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; 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Sun, 30 Sep 2018 10:46:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:46:06 +0300 To: Johannes Dieterich Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:46:12 -0000 On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 17:04:26 +0000 Johannes Dieterich wrote: > > A10-9700 > > Bristol Ridge Radeon R7 > > > > vgapci0@pci0:0:1:0: class=0x030000 card=0x1e201002 > > chip=0x98741002 rev=0xe2 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Advanced Micro > > Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' device = 'Wani [Radeon R5/R6/R7 > > Graphics]' class = display > > subclass = VGA > Yes, I've had a Bristol Ridge as a daily driver until a few days ago. > Use the LinuxKPI based DRM from ports, if you are on CURRENT > graphics/drm-devel-kmod, and load amdgpu.ko. > I am on 11.2. I try drm-stable-kmod-g20180822 but it fail to load, as I understand. Is xf86-video-amdgpu must be used with drm-*-kmod* ? 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Sun, 30 Sep 2018 11:37:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:37:34 +0300 To: Johannes Dieterich Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:37:39 -0000 On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:12:01 +0000 Johannes Dieterich wrote: > > I try drm-stable-kmod-g20180822 but it fail to load, as I > > understand. > That should work, could you post the error messages? I assume you > followed the instructions in the port? # kldload /boot/modules/amdgpu.ko [drm] Initialized [drm] amdgpu kernel modesetting enabled. drmn0: on vgapci0 vgapci0: child drmn0 requested pci_enable_io vgapci0: child drmn0 requested pci_enable_io [drm] initializing kernel modesetting (CARRIZO 0x1002:0x9874 0x1002:0x1E20 0xE2). [drm] register mmio base: 0xFE900000 [drm] register mmio size: 262144 [drm] doorbell mmio base: 0xF0000000 [drm] doorbell mmio size: 8388608 [drm:amdgpu_device_init] Unable to find PCI I/O BAR [drm] probing mlw for device 1002:9874 = 0 [drm] UVD is enabled in physical mode [drm] VCE enabled in physical mode [drm:amdgpu_atombios_init] Unable to find PCI I/O BAR; using MMIO for ATOM IIO ATOM BIOS: BRISTOL [drm] GPU post is not needed Zone kernel: Available graphics memory: 3104154 kiB Zone dma32: Available graphics memory: 2097152 kiB [TTM] Initializing pool allocator drmn0: VRAM: 2048M 0x0000000000000000 - 0x000000007FFFFFFF (2048M used) drmn0: GTT: 3031M 0x0000000080000000 - 0x000000013D7667FF [drm] Detected VRAM RAM=2048M, BAR=256M [drm] RAM width 64bits UNKNOWN [drm] amdgpu: 2048M of VRAM memory ready [drm] amdgpu: 3031M of GTT memory ready. [drm] GART: num cpu pages 776038, num gpu pages 776038 [drm] PCIE GART of 3031M enabled (table at 0x0000000000040000). [drm] Supports vblank timestamp caching Rev 2 (21.10.2013). [drm] Driver supports precise vblank timestamp query. [drm] amdgpu: irq initialized. amdgpu: powerplay initialized [drm] Connector DP-1: get mode from tunables: [drm] - kern.vt.fb.modes.DP-1 [drm] - kern.vt.fb.default_mode [drm] Connector HDMI-A-1: get mode from tunables: [drm] - kern.vt.fb.modes.HDMI-A-1 [drm] - kern.vt.fb.default_mode [drm] Connector HDMI-A-2: get mode from tunables: [drm] - kern.vt.fb.modes.HDMI-A-2 [drm] - kern.vt.fb.default_mode [drm] AMDGPU Display Connectors [drm] Connector 0: [drm] DP-1 [drm] HPD1 [drm] DDC: 0x4868 0x4868 0x4869 0x4869 0x486a 0x486a 0x486b 0x486b [drm] Encoders: [drm] DFP1: INTERNAL_UNIPHY [drm] Connector 1: [drm] HDMI-A-1 [drm] HPD2 [drm] DDC: 0x486c 0x486c 0x486d 0x486d 0x486e 0x486e 0x486f 0x486f [drm] Encoders: [drm] DFP2: INTERNAL_UNIPHY [drm] Connector 2: [drm] HDMI-A-2 [drm] HPD3 [drm] DDC: 0x4870 0x4870 0x4871 0x4871 0x4872 0x4872 0x4873 0x4873 [drm] Encoders: [drm] DFP3: INTERNAL_UNIPHY1 amdgpu/carrizo_pfp.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_pfp.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_me.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_me.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_ce.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_ce.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_rlc.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_rlc.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_mec.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_mec.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_mec2.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_mec2.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 drmn0: fence driver on ring 0 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000010, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa010 drmn0: fence driver on ring 1 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000020, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa020 drmn0: fence driver on ring 2 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000030, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa030 drmn0: fence driver on ring 3 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000040, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa040 drmn0: fence driver on ring 4 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000050, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa050 drmn0: fence driver on ring 5 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000060, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa060 drmn0: fence driver on ring 6 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000070, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa070 drmn0: fence driver on ring 7 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000080, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa080 drmn0: fence driver on ring 8 use gpu addr 0x0000000080000090, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa090 amdgpu/carrizo_sdma.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_sdma.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_sdma1.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_sdma1.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 drmn0: fence driver on ring 9 use gpu addr 0x00000000800000a0, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa0a0 drmn0: fence driver on ring 10 use gpu addr 0x00000000800000b0, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa0b0 amdgpu/carrizo_uvd.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_uvd.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 [drm] Found UVD firmware Version: 1.91 Family ID: 11 drmn0: fence driver on ring 11 use gpu addr 0x0000000000681560, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800e0681560 amdgpu/carrizo_vce.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 amdgpu/carrizo_vce.bin: could not load firmware image, error 2 [drm] Found VCE firmware Version: 52.4 Binary ID: 3 drmn0: fence driver on ring 12 use gpu addr 0x00000000800000d0, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa0d0 drmn0: fence driver on ring 13 use gpu addr 0x00000000800000e0, cpu addr 0x0xfffff800444aa0e0 [drm:gfx_v8_0_ring_test_ring] amdgpu: ring 0 test failed (scratch(0xC040)=0xCAFEDEAD) [drm:amdgpu_init] hw_init of IP block failed -22 drmn0: amdgpu_init failed [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 3 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 4 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 5 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 3 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 4 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 5 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 3 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 4 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 5 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 3 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 4 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 5 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 3 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 4 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 5 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 3 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 4 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [drm:dce_v11_0_set_pageflip_irq_state] invalid pageflip crtc 5 [drm:amdgpu_irq_disable_all] error disabling interrupt (-22) [TTM] Finalizing pool allocator Zone kernel: Used memory at exit: 0 kiB Zone dma32: Used memory at exit: 0 kiB [drm] amdgpu: ttm finalized drmn0: Fatal error during GPU init [drm] amdgpu: finishing device. [TTM] Memory type 2 has not been initialized device_attach: drmn0 attach returned 22 From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 20:37:18 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263BC10A664B; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:37:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x334.google.com (mail-ot1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9212B71622; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:37:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x334.google.com with SMTP id u22so489104ota.12; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:37:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:cc:from:subject:in-reply-to:references:content-transfer-encoding :date:message-id:mime-version; bh=hOrYwak3S+MkGf04+cmG0VMhxo7Wp/RNsW8Li1XEMfo=; b=qM3J46NCHJw8/C5u26VlCbUi1HZbAURKUCtAoh/13nUbx0z4dP6scKpn4AmWt61H3t CfPv1oJsEJaWXMAj0wDcQcU0ZBeYQDhQyi8eWf7Izz0Wc1vOJ/NF4UHh5gyKSRs7Bpzt jhUEnfRylY0HA519n8hzL7xGE29E+aZ0miyF5M3U+0/RxmlX+ysohEfp2peNzwHPlFyn Aa1pxunKsREe6CE9RSGLcC9KpgeK4SZZ6expT2aG8DRzkKKo28NQK/rjhJJMv87cfzKU ekLpnza7lXlVGHjEYUs7Izgy8ZYnwB1nVJM6nCf+RPHP1aD9FhsXQO2RuYh/73joWR97 Z9Uw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:cc:from:subject:in-reply-to:references :content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=hOrYwak3S+MkGf04+cmG0VMhxo7Wp/RNsW8Li1XEMfo=; b=f3YdZ/RqHsWN0278Aqlp7jhtoCqZReCwWCC3plnX+8VKdTR/RbwpUmHMSdVCk46lwp scg1/iS1zKsGlpwebHW6sgt6EQLyyc9WYjH99lNBLPInqz+LdpxTLO8FttX80Fmd08dY STn3nblAI1/YoJQ9n/vnUEzo2YiC1YxZkhaJB6YQvXR2avY09NIDyT3dTVnBC9axFsiF jxy1Hec0STVnec8GEfi2tXDDOdZlu3Chpr5NoC0xZMu4T2KjrI41wVrnelAh/T6HoNE4 PKE+SLodHIGoOK66DU7dvER7OMsArc2qIL/ne+Qwoh6JqF9SO4VE3Ot7Qpql7/tbZJk1 5CVA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiSTZHd1FI1LsWAbbMUbCt58V1TaiSV4bKQLE0Bu9vf2X5Y3otC JQfUKQgPZg+iFIPqUcBF/0E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62cSijVQdHNjko8SG3UePQy3UiAbkP8/o2uHToAPE8LcmQzLeTLJVmLKJZkPRxXGf8lZ+0oTA== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:41fc:: with SMTP id v57-v6mr4462220oti.241.1538339836597; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (072-179-013-114.res.spectrum.com. [72.179.13.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 33-v6sm4146634otw.29.2018.09.30.13.37.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:37:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Priority: 3 To: rozhuk.im@gmail.com Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Johannes Dieterich Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support In-Reply-To: <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:37:07 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:37:18 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freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2940310A7189 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:00:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D8D72532 for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 7AEF510A715C; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:00:58 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69CF210A715A for ; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:3]) (using 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(envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@FreeBSD.org) Message-Id: <201809302100.w8UL0vHA004209@kenobi.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: bugzilla set sender to bugzilla-noreply@FreeBSD.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@FreeBSD.org To: stable@FreeBSD.org Subject: Problem reports for stable@FreeBSD.org that need special attention Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:00:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:00:59 -0000 To view an individual PR, use: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=(Bug Id). The following is a listing of current problems submitted by FreeBSD users, which need special attention. These represent problem reports covering all versions including experimental development code and obsolete releases. Status | Bug Id | Description ------------+-----------+--------------------------------------------------- New | 230620 | "install -d" issue Open | 227213 | FreeBSD 10.4 kernel deadlocks on sysctlmemlock 2 problems total for which you should take action. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 21:15:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A686B10A8458; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:15:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0723473313; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:15:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id p89-v6so10293645ljb.3; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:15:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tjwYaFkKzw7nzMtds4/2xeysy8imBkzbRdDIMBW+Jeg=; b=a40fLyywUVOJRqLeqpLWnhH3UyKlphSjDoIpwWB433+lzslMKnnMAjf94zizurrXtt lNch90XgQzhc2Az0rCKSwni5OPWJXaAm/sj6KVzWkbVMZ2rkHDxh/KVlfZBH1BoS/LwC 02U3QqhAYc9VHdy/WTWng8voS6u4XnSHCUPKs/OdLuIKXm93bJwiREVmcgG1KRRXhA6c Wf3HhpB24VYuwGTkAdO9BXH+dHxz4VMxLU5ReLaoFqNGfgntD/Z6osjnUSSm2NwpioqA RCiJZKFlJ+s5hjdIhRvlNNWjQszdvt9yMqyOmCRi0aBY6YxMs4jtiWaogaA0E2SJ8raf GzDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tjwYaFkKzw7nzMtds4/2xeysy8imBkzbRdDIMBW+Jeg=; b=dnRdXcMCpngaGnHsCRooz/IaTasYSWsSAzdfLFfxBtYjTTYMpGd+iKsaYA2uV8MlRG x7zXkYzrkesqomLAAg9IKGdw8Nk9m+6R4WHzJAbRd22eQe8+jpdxApQDUEskp8Xx3153 oKjFv+wlIWT9nkxgZt5x/ytE5FyUTvYVdjYHLag1vF3d6ujy8rhtnNz8EminoLPd4fOa bKYIwLe+CLqZ2+dDITMom4/NAyJhch0tcGW4eeOd0ke0K/FuZWAVH+kxahyzk4EAFaJm DjruzM86Na955Ws5FUdWk6TG9zNrQF6CpeYQDguVKQIHWEBzlz6GbOavJYllY9kvOrDY 2Gew== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohT01tUYhizlrXq6wujkiTS9Suy9QOKagSKEjCwP0CgkDsRL3rj vR5fU8uGXPMH9ZXutGwspBw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60BrChcZRcZbUIGtWJyyXGEdEBElDShE8G9VyIlSRYENVgSuzqJF7E2/hRS7svbhbHuvaesIA== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:360c:: with SMTP id d12-v6mr4362318lja.92.1538342154505; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2001:470:1f15:3d8:7285:c2ff:fe37:5722]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 24-v6sm2356110ljb.76.2018.09.30.14.15.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 14:15:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 00:15:51 +0300 To: Johannes Dieterich Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:15:57 -0000 On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:37:07 +0000 Johannes Dieterich wrote: > > finishing device. [TTM] Memory type 2 has not been initialized > > device_attach: drmn0 attach returned 22 > Just to make sure, the gpu-firmware port is installed > and /boot/modules contains these files the load is looking for? Which > drm port gets installed if you use the new graphics/drm-kmod > metaport? If it is next, could you try with that? # pkg version -v | grep gpu gpu-firmware-kmod-g20180825 = up-to-date with index xf86-video-amdgpu-1.3.0_3 = up-to-date with index # pkg version -v | grep kmod drm-stable-kmod-g20180822 = up-to-date with index gpu-firmware-kmod-g20180825 = up-to-date with index # ls /boot/modules/ | grep carrizo -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 13K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_ce_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 21K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_me_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 261K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_mec_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 261K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_mec2_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 21K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_pfp_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 23K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_rlc_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 15K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_sdma_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 15K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_sdma1_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 270K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_uvd_bin.ko* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 176K Aug 26 21:20:06 2018 amdgpu_carrizo_vce_bin.ko* drm-next requires FreeBSD 12, I do not try it yet. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 23:21:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DBD710AB1A9; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:21:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x22d.google.com (mail-oi1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0099076DA6; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:21:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id e17-v6so8836298oib.4; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:21:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:cc:from:subject:in-reply-to:references:content-transfer-encoding :date:message-id:mime-version; 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Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:21:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([2607:fb90:b0c:bc22:dff8:96ea:408f:e157]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g36-v6sm2213998otb.66.2018.09.30.16.21.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Priority: 3 To: rozhuk.im@gmail.com Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Johannes Dieterich Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support In-Reply-To: <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:21:36 +0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:21:40 -0000 DQoNCk9uIFN1bmRheSwgU2VwdGVtYmVyIDMwLCAyMDE4LCBSb3podWsgSXZhbiB3cm90ZToNCj4g T24gU3VuLCAzMCBTZXAgMjAxOCAyMDozNzowNyArMDAwMA0KPiBKb2hhbm5lcyBEaWV0ZXJpY2gg PGRpZXRlcmljaC5qb2hAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+ID4gPiBmaW5pc2hpbmcgZGV2 aWNlLiBbVFRNXSBNZW1vcnkgdHlwZSAyIGhhcyBub3QgYmVlbiBpbml0aWFsaXplZA0KPiA+ID4g ZGV2aWNlX2F0dGFjaDogZHJtbjAgYXR0YWNoIHJldHVybmVkIDIyICANCj4gPiBKdXN0IHRvIG1h a2Ugc3VyZSwgdGhlIGdwdS1maXJtd2FyZSBwb3J0IGlzIGluc3RhbGxlZA0KPiA+IGFuZCAvYm9v dC9tb2R1bGVzIGNvbnRhaW5zIHRoZXNlIGZpbGVzIHRoZSBsb2FkIGlzIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yPyBX aGljaA0KPiA+IGRybSBwb3J0IGdldHMgaW5zdGFsbGVkIGlmIHlvdSB1c2UgdGhlIG5ldyBncmFw aGljcy9kcm0ta21vZA0KPiA+IG1ldGFwb3J0PyBJZiBpdCBpcyBuZXh0LCBjb3VsZCB5b3UgdHJ5 IHdpdGggdGhhdD8NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAjIHBrZyB2ZXJzaW9uIC12IHwgZ3JlcCBncHUNCj4gZ3B1 LWZpcm13YXJlLWttb2QtZzIwMTgwODI1ICAgICAgICA9ICAgdXAtdG8tZGF0ZSB3aXRoIGluZGV4 DQo+IHhmODYtdmlkZW8tYW1kZ3B1LTEuMy4wXzMgICAgICAgICAgPSAgIHVwLXRvLWRhdGUgd2l0 aCBpbmRleA0KPiANCj4gIyBwa2cgdmVyc2lvbiAtdiB8IGdyZXAga21vZA0KPiBkcm0tc3RhYmxl LWttb2QtZzIwMTgwODIyICAgICAgICAgID0gICB1cC10by1kYXRlIHdpdGggaW5kZXgNCj4gZ3B1 LWZpcm13YXJlLWttb2QtZzIwMTgwODI1ICAgICAgICA9ICAgdXAtdG8tZGF0ZSB3aXRoIGluZGV4 DQo+IA0KPiAjIGxzIC9ib290L21vZHVsZXMvIHwgZ3JlcCBjYXJyaXpvDQo+IC1yLXhyLXhyLXgg ICAxIHJvb3QgIHdoZWVsICAgIDEzSyBBdWcgMjYgMjE6MjA6MDYgMjAxOCBhbWRncHVfY2Fycml6 b19jZV9iaW4ua28qDQo+IC1yLXhyLXhyLXggICAxIHJvb3QgIHdoZWVsICAgIDIxSyBBdWcgMjYg MjE6MjA6MDYgMjAxOCBhbWRncHVfY2Fycml6b19tZV9iaW4ua28qDQo+IC1yLXhyLXhyLXggICAx IHJvb3QgIHdoZWVsICAgMjYxSyBBdWcgMjYgMjE6MjA6MDYgMjAxOCBhbWRncHVfY2Fycml6b19t ZWNfYmluLmtvKg0KPiAtci14ci14ci14ICAgMSByb290ICB3aGVlbCAgIDI2MUsgQXVnIDI2IDIx OjIwOjA2IDIwMTggYW1kZ3B1X2NhcnJpem9fbWVjMl9iaW4ua28qDQo+IC1yLXhyLXhyLXggICAx IHJvb3QgIHdoZWVsICAgIDIxSyBBdWcgMjYgMjE6MjA6MDYgMjAxOCBhbWRncHVfY2Fycml6b19w ZnBfYmluLmtvKg0KPiAtci14ci14ci14ICAgMSByb290ICB3aGVlbCAgICAyM0sgQXVnIDI2IDIx OjIwOjA2IDIwMTggYW1kZ3B1X2NhcnJpem9fcmxjX2Jpbi5rbyoNCj4gLXIteHIteHIteCAgIDEg cm9vdCAgd2hlZWwgICAgMTVLIEF1ZyAyNiAyMToyMDowNiAyMDE4IGFtZGdwdV9jYXJyaXpvX3Nk bWFfYmluLmtvKg0KPiAtci14ci14ci14ICAgMSByb290ICB3aGVlbCAgICAxNUsgQXVnIDI2IDIx OjIwOjA2IDIwMTggYW1kZ3B1X2NhcnJpem9fc2RtYTFfYmluLmtvKg0KPiAtci14ci14ci14ICAg MSByb290ICB3aGVlbCAgIDI3MEsgQXVnIDI2IDIxOjIwOjA2IDIwMTggYW1kZ3B1X2NhcnJpem9f dXZkX2Jpbi5rbyoNCj4gLXIteHIteHIteCAgIDEgcm9vdCAgd2hlZWwgICAxNzZLIEF1ZyAyNiAy MToyMDowNiAyMDE4IGFtZGdwdV9jYXJyaXpvX3ZjZV9iaW4ua28qDQpPaywgdGhpcyBsb29rcyBn b29kLiBJdCBtYXkgYmUgdGhhdCBCcmlzdG9sIGlzIG5vdCB3ZWxsIHN1cHBvcnRlZCBvbiBEUk0g NC45IHlldCwgSSBuZWVkIHRvIGNoZWNrIHRoYXQuDQogDQo+IA0KPiBkcm0tbmV4dCByZXF1aXJl cyBGcmVlQlNEIDEyLCBJIGRvIG5vdCB0cnkgaXQgeWV0Lg0KSXQgcmVxdWlyZXMgYSBGcmVlQlNE IHZlcnNpb24gZXF1YWwgb3IgaGlnaGVyIHRoYW4gMTEwMTUxMSwgY291bGQgeW91IHByb3ZpZGUg c3lzY3RsIGtlcm4ub3NyZWxlYXNlPw0KDQpKb2hhbm5lcw== From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 23:28:29 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD6D10AB5DB; 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Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:28:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 02:28:25 +0300 To: Johannes Dieterich Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20181001022825.03660c3c@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:28:29 -0000 On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:21:36 +0000 Johannes Dieterich wrote: > > drm-next requires FreeBSD 12, I do not try it yet. > It requires a FreeBSD version equal or higher than 1101511, could you > provide sysctl kern.osrelease? kern.osrelease: 11.2-STABLE /usr/ports/graphics/drm-kmod /usr/ports/graphics/drm-stable-kmod /usr/ports/graphics/drm-legacy-kmod /usr/ports/graphics/drm-next-kmod /usr/ports/graphics/drm-devel-kmod Too many drm... From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 23:38:04 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BA310ABDAD; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:38:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: from saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org (saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org [217.29.35.151]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D209077ABC; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:38:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: from juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (juno.lyx [IPv6:fd2a:89ca:7d54:0:240:caff:fe92:4f47]) by saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w8UN4K55018747 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Oct 2018 01:04:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: from juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w8UN4KlG024469 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2018 01:04:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) Received: (from wolfgang@localhost) by juno.lyxys.ka.sub.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w8UN4K5W024468; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 01:04:20 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: juno.lyx: wolfgang set sender to wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org using -f Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 01:04:20 +0200 From: Wolfgang Zenker To: Rozhuk Ivan Cc: Johannes Dieterich , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20180930230420.GA24408@lyxys.ka.sub.org> References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> Organization: private site User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (saturn.lyxys.ka.sub.org [IPv6:fd2a:89ca:7d54:1:200:24ff:feca:b4cc]); Mon, 01 Oct 2018 01:04:22 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:38:04 -0000 * Rozhuk Ivan [180930 23:15]: > On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 20:37:07 +0000 > Johannes Dieterich wrote: > [..] >> Just to make sure, the gpu-firmware port is installed >> and /boot/modules contains these files the load is looking for? Which >> drm port gets installed if you use the new graphics/drm-kmod >> metaport? If it is next, could you try with that? > [..] > drm-next requires FreeBSD 12, I do not try it yet. that is no longer true; drm-next requires at least FreeBSD 11.2 now Wolfgang From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 23:38:05 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA5410ABDB5; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:38:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x230.google.com (mail-oi1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A193677ABD; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:38:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dieterich.joh@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x230.google.com with SMTP id m11-v6so9744793oic.2; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:38:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:39:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 02:39:39 +0300 To: Wolfgang Zenker Cc: Johannes Dieterich , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20181001023939.5d47c920@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20180930230420.GA24408@lyxys.ka.sub.org> References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> <20180930230420.GA24408@lyxys.ka.sub.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:39:44 -0000 On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 01:04:20 +0200 Wolfgang Zenker wrote: > > drm-next requires FreeBSD 12, I do not try it yet. > > that is no longer true; drm-next requires at least FreeBSD 11.2 now Got kernel panic on amdgpu load. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Sep 30 23:43:36 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A357110AC4E9; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D20A78397; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id a82-v6so8526941lfa.4; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:43:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TTs7qXcKm9eC4cchrxv6UvXqclZw9OjfTEM9J8XLqMU=; b=CQ/Qe47X270iVls9Mv7JGMGaeRMwwTinmxXlI2Gpv0NB/MpAue+mErpkcHqjwVgoFx KJVPo2p3/BCNuk+PQrIJhXsrust/VUehB4g7oOULPiDGlx0GFrS42bahTw5bFm0ExjH4 FWP9Mddo4KH4NwRmmtwjrPCwOoWNk0ekrQBnCZ8GVqxVYGXcfFUtQq8SGIomjUeO1iZs GuKdisQdGferjRjjcZ4ALqxP3nWSjJ8ru6+GcjVthXUX3l2BwVlhiZVFNRalhqgmZ0H2 Yec+0Z9Sx8fv/m+lGFsukXViPkd9Y4QZkb/9thVnro3DpjDo/2OQKHCHvrndhcD84w2g mcbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:date:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TTs7qXcKm9eC4cchrxv6UvXqclZw9OjfTEM9J8XLqMU=; b=M6RiWz0jz4EGAEJOZzNHZJVb6KjRQM5tAo2Biwjh0LYgU9XnkXY2DrEVPBwReGDEMA kOscwygQyb0VP7fV3TzgHp9by8XyZaFZJZXM1WgyDadOBjS74E35y1lNiqVsCZhe3V1U +Zs5DGi2qiAv3saf6ReihcOSoLLZ4341abhwZDTaRX9DN+a6gPTG2kZUJVxVwwprD7ix wybWk03Kaj62KW0Ebp06V3AyYlnCTmUQRHx1edTI+0gaFy32ymbWCweBklW2WjLPFoiy sNgOVOJk0D5x6HMzz2CFdWdJhCCZlfwb8x9jF1CqFQXhNNE/rWOd8H8IbYR8rYhBPAKI u+cw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohMfqlSySe1cI67kGZ6wLJ+ys0J3ErO6SnWrDsBTEUkkzPLuc6J xIe+VPLZ/tiWrXZ5a9V/cic= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63+PQevjDOeS2sLkehlBcizvNua2lNoAsoLbstkJhFH9qjQDO/YFlVinoH5aw5P+LktWFVKHA== X-Received: by 2002:a19:6381:: with SMTP id v1-v6mr3901152lfi.136.1538351014587; Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2001:470:1f15:3d8:7285:c2ff:fe37:5722]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x6-v6sm2416101lji.36.2018.09.30.16.43.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sun, 30 Sep 2018 16:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 02:43:32 +0300 To: Johannes Dieterich Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: APU Bristol Ridge graphics support Message-ID: <20181001024332.5200ea2c@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20180930130149.1adddede@gmail.com> <3cmm8o.pfvorh.0-qmf@smtp.gmail.com> <20180930204606.51500919@gmail.com> <20180930213734.74d68ddc@gmail.com> <20181001001551.103bfd4a@gmail.com> <20181001022825.03660c3c@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.16.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:43:36 -0000 On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 23:38:02 +0000 Johannes Dieterich wrote: > > /usr/ports/graphics/drm-kmod > > /usr/ports/graphics/drm-stable-kmod > > /usr/ports/graphics/drm-legacy-kmod > > /usr/ports/graphics/drm-next-kmod > > /usr/ports/graphics/drm-devel-kmod > > > > Too many drm... > Which is why there is graphics/drm-kmod which will install the most > recent recommended DRM for your OS version. Could you try that? It install graphics/drm-stable-kmod. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Oct 1 14:43:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDFD010BF5E0 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 14:43:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oshogbo.vx@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com (mail-lf1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29DDC79C16 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 14:43:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oshogbo.vx@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id q39-v6so8661408lfi.8 for ; Mon, 01 Oct 2018 07:43:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=fi5gy0Q04L+1gP8KMnw+tOZ0KCCoZisv2CX2qWJb9uM=; b=L0yPdZ6snIMQNwhMoKjTSIWuHsdnwfV1IrLOkMU/YTP8tzpHD7AgXhazw+M7lXc3CV oBaf/jJDrEEFCp8H7EJR4O7eg4GCbCTDo+WA49LO82pCVa47Zh0PYqpHURIj1yOwh2YX nf5k2rOyVt7gkMRfbi+dDEOMmHy8lrOtyOc5O6cik3wX7L4EYWKdM5P6us+9vYybgffj fC/W5DBqG/2O+og5woSaAgRqmOiPF3zkBL9URvJroLzLWSuBHpPbCznMrwxOuPgW/7oe Oqzjjzu46RK7CFKB6+8hbJ24zGWdXtREonj+yMfNosGEMiuLyM/R9AezbegMT9lC/s+s 6M6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=fi5gy0Q04L+1gP8KMnw+tOZ0KCCoZisv2CX2qWJb9uM=; b=r02md5G+7Hd+xygV04E+efbgGi7xFc+efxHdgKsy4NVh4QohKndEDEbtAi0jPhC+u7 KvISkzFW+0gaQM8HR+8b0kMMbAv+83JalJnxLmyJ0M43X/qQoqXCl/PTUPESv/waMHc4 KA/Vc/yZpww2iylMvtaWillcELl/kYeXPUPXGyN0ErKkRCq4uVtaXEcLjRfm4jHEET5p Re9l3LeLxP/5+zsVCO2FQcvhVOgQHUjNLH6rsgMLxYJHCK1fy7E8vRk/mDh+EKSBtUqW 3589NomAKdk7wjmsGFBtyx/Yb42JwFd0KK1U7vFef+TXqdY8EnexUFYQa4txljrATMXE ROVA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiGmtCNTv3pbcY/2+TihKdNOjXSGtow+0zkKs1ekaM9v9q5jomO +vAnFqlGIlKOP8AQlVZtH3I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62Q2PzEy2/m0B1dulhuPC9Rt90BQx2+r3Ux/uKXWSryt3ywSlpwDaP1NfI9XYWoo72lT5154g== X-Received: by 2002:a19:98c1:: with SMTP id a184-v6mr5489907lfe.94.1538405017664; Mon, 01 Oct 2018 07:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x-wing (87-206-170-77.dynamic.chello.pl. [87.206.170.77]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y14-v6sm2352765lfh.10.2018.10.01.07.43.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Oct 2018 07:43:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Mariusz Zaborski Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 16:43:35 +0200 From: Mariusz Zaborski To: Claude Buisson Cc: FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List Subject: Re: traceroute -n difference between STABLE-11 and CURRENT Message-ID: <20181001144335.GA84330@x-wing> References: <4c75a92e-e107-9a77-aff5-fd914c7527b9@orange.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4c75a92e-e107-9a77-aff5-fd914c7527b9@orange.fr> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 14:43:40 -0000 --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 03:51:25PM +0200, Claude Buisson wrote: > Hello, >=20 > On systems with STABLE-11 @ r338696, I found that >=20 > traceroute -n ... >=20 > led to: >=20 > traceroute: cap_enter: Function not implemented >=20 > I rebuilt the systems with >=20 > WITHOUT_CASPER >=20 > commented in /etc/src.conf >=20 > and (to be safe ?) >=20 > CAPABILITY_MODE > CAPABILITIES >=20 > uncommented in the kernel definitions >=20 > And traceroute -n can now be successfully used. >=20 > Being curious, I traced this behaviour to r338475 by oshogbo, which is=20 > documented as a MFC of r314000 >=20 > BUT i NEVER met this problem on my CURRENT systems which are now at=20 > r338331 (so after r314000), and are built WITHOUT_CASPER and without=20 > CAPABILITY_MODE nor CAPABILITIES in their kernel definitions. >=20 > What am I missing (my only hint being the change from HAVE_LIBCASPER to= =20 > WITH_CASPER) ? >=20 > CBu Hello, sorry for keep you waiting. Your issue should be fixed with the r339045 in STABLE-11. Thanks, --=20 Mariusz Zaborski oshogbo//vx | http://oshogbo.vexillium.org FreeBSD committer | https://freebsd.org Software developer | http://wheelsystems.com If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is!!1 --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEkD1x0xkJXVVY1Gwf38KEGuLGxWQFAluyMpIACgkQ38KEGuLG xWTcJw/9Ey5g4MTg/momFOoTAEBCVvcsB+b/cjAGARUN+01q4tFelqgETiixwtam v7V8oHW/NYixGPGNGCJJhcWKcFU7rhy7UTQQVaMYSwI5ZKGISYgNz44tLpq5FY47 NrqdbmIKC0iFipCa+s6k6UOXUZfjgrbmL8LxNL6G3X1nkfhqMXGfXTUYLXaBuU9s ZnfvZDKOS4Kkn6rvIvlt2gP50f9oXaxnfLHdWObYAgD8hSUUFV9qXBzoGaSLXj/R 1fBlLP/02lQ1ITb90gWcADUmzyPJ+onEDlKGCrS1DkjvloeDxCq7TvAlMPDuZ4Nd mF1aYf+0VKoMW1TIdQfDJTfvDdvVmU0Eqld8T3IcZJ6N4dUitVhCnjoiyJtZtrnZ uDhq49J2WENlZQAMJrjheFGgIAqQ/iHCM8csIoAh6tWE/DjPkoSo7KJgVUsR7U5q 8rVTkzqqPPd/c8KfC3dxhqDt5hviqbEybbshNqhgbZTX41ZePcS1RgOXAb34Bskv PRFB+i/dQUjYubZw+IDwrEpcMBetWyY/rNeCQSSnRL41HpDbyqgc9dnQZqg03rtL vrY20DW7L0R+PRy7TC5ZoVfkbCd6eE01Pxxz03KQL27LTRiaLvI5z+1d1dxcvUIq wwHwiNaH++qcNIYmtovJHQq71Nmaps/obXolGsStffgY0t40g0E= =cPSi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gBBFr7Ir9EOA20Yy-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Oct 1 22:01:20 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4AB10ABCBF for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 22:01:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f41.google.com (mail-lf1-f41.google.com [209.85.167.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A370C8F0C1 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2018 22:01:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f41.google.com with SMTP id m80-v6so11020396lfi.12 for ; Mon, 01 Oct 2018 15:01:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AtFsoWaeVzDMc3f+5Gz9JnGuGCF3XC0Q2gsc3dkLw48=; b=R55sD4tsgVruVeE07UtwREwQyc84uU/zWYI/UyRIHQgmMgrD6s1N7+XCtVuX9jgUaa nGtalQ68J3ogZw8sfV6lidI5wVL99NSIDVocyad8PubJtq+VDC8Qfp5wZUrYrZKAx+mC UNU7ic75XZvDvcxRr1d2Qj+7CfWow5SFAo6LtVGL2bOBPhskrPXg4tQ5s2g7earrYUie cGRxPiVEppWKkeskrA55c2mkrXijS8zukETwc42ejKTLyumcdW8qMa/93ND/TLptF4rA Dr7LgCNCY/qfNIVA7VAZ87Oo7ZnwZp9tbJXWa84tZ39lpJXRxtaQgnxr4EEZLql9kdEB zX0A== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfog5THrG35VSp65NIYuwxGMQbvGZ8B4ksi8crrrQaD+m1iU0jvbV 3s5Ajmz7fEcryYK17nkS+DeupwjOd+kHN4cmIVE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62bDgjfDaKtgbP+ZTaR5c2lxErxo1QTDG/EpflEW2J4esXzf6XlreDGFmCivrAxCnUnqrZT29soLizOmDkoMk8= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5e5d:: with SMTP id z29-v6mr6444172lfi.110.1538431277741; Mon, 01 Oct 2018 15:01:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alan Somers Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2018 16:01:06 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Minor 11.1 -> 11.2 upgrade glitch To: marcnarc@gmail.com Cc: FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2018 22:01:20 -0000 On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 9:08 AM Marc Branchaud wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a ZFS dataset mounted under /usr/local/jenkins. I've made this > the home directory of my jenkins user, so that directory has to be owned > by jenkins. > > # cd /usr/local > # ls -ld jenkins > drwxr-xr-x 20 jenkins jenkins 75 Sep 17 10:48 jenkins > > After upgrading from 11.1 to 11.2, the directory ended up owned by root: > > drwxr-xr-x 20 root jenkins 75 Sep 17 10:48 jenkins > > Only the directory ownership changed -- all the contents were still > owned by jenkins. > > Not a big deal, but I did have a moment of dread when jenkins failed to > start after the upgrade. > > So is this a bug, or is there some policy that everything immediately > under /usr/local should be owned by root? > > M. > You probably did a "pkg upgrade" after upgrading your base system, and that's probably what changed the directory's permission. Upgrading the base system shouldn't have an effect. I would ask the Jenkins port maintainer your question. -Alan From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Oct 3 12:59:08 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A9410C2451 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 12:59:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257B57974F for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 12:59:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D9D4810C2450; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 12:59:07 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C93C10C244F for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 12:59:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from connect.ultra-secure.de (connect.ultra-secure.de [88.198.71.201]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 022F07974E for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 12:59:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: (Haraka outbound); Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:55:26 +0200 Authentication-Results: connect.ultra-secure.de; auth=pass (login); spf=none smtp.mailfrom=ultra-secure.de Received-SPF: None (connect.ultra-secure.de: domain of ultra-secure.de does not designate 127.0.0.10 as permitted sender) receiver=connect.ultra-secure.de; identity=mailfrom; client-ip=127.0.0.10; helo=connect.ultra-secure.de; envelope-from= Received: from connect.ultra-secure.de (webmail [127.0.0.10]) by connect.ultra-secure.de (Haraka/2.6.2-toaster) with ESMTPSA id 21E63304-CFF3-4049-8C69-76D37510D6E4.1 envelope-from (authenticated bits=0) (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA verify=NO); Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:55:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:55:19 +0200 From: rainer@ultra-secure.de To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: 11.2-RELEASE panics with a bit of load Message-ID: <7b8edb650b9d50a03e60335ebc13ada8@ultra-secure.de> X-Sender: rainer@ultra-secure.de User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.0 X-Haraka-GeoIP: --, , NaNkm X-Haraka-GeoIP-Received: X-Haraka-p0f: os="undefined undefined" link_type="undefined" distance=undefined total_conn=undefined shared_ip=Y X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on spamassassin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Haraka-Karma: score: 6, good: 719, bad: 0, connections: 725, history: 719, pass:all_good, relaying X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 12:59:08 -0000 Hi, I created a PR for this, but maybe somebody here can help. https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=231296 I have a HP DL380 Gen10 server with a smartpqi(4) HBA and some disks smartpqi0: port 0x4000-0x40ff mem 0xe2800000-0xe2807fff at device 0.0 numa-domain 0 on pci4 smartpqi0: using MSI-X interrupts (16 vectors) smartpqi1: port 0xc000-0xc0ff mem 0xf3800000-0xf3807fff at device 0.0 numa-domain 0 on pci9 smartpqi1: using MSI-X interrupts (16 vectors) ses0 at smartpqi0 bus 0 scbus0 target 187 lun 0 ses1 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 187 lun 0 da2 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 64 lun 0 da7 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 69 lun 0 da5 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 67 lun 0 da3 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 65 lun 0 da8 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 70 lun 0 da4 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 66 lun 0 da9 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 71 lun 0 pass3 at smartpqi0 bus 0 scbus0 target 1088 lun 0 da0 at smartpqi0 bus 0 scbus0 target 64 lun 0 da6 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 68 lun 0 pass13 at smartpqi1 bus 0 scbus1 target 1088 lun 0 da1 at smartpqi0 bus 0 scbus0 target 66 lun 0 This server can be made to panic relatively easily by rsyncing packed logfiles over to it and unpacking them. This is (hopefully) a backtrace of a crashdump resulting from one of those panics: Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode cpuid = 3; apic id = 03 fault virtual address = 0x5a fault code = supervisor read data, page not present instruction pointer = 0x20:0xffffffff80dff90d stack pointer = 0x28:0xfffffe084ed93f00 frame pointer = 0x28:0xfffffe084ed93f40 code segment = base rx0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, long 1, def32 0, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 (zio_write_issue_10) trap number = 12 panic: page fault cpuid = 3 KDB: stack backtrace: #0 0xffffffff80b3d567 at kdb_backtrace+0x67 #1 0xffffffff80af6b07 at vpanic+0x177 #2 0xffffffff80af6983 at panic+0x43 #3 0xffffffff80f77fcf at trap_fatal+0x35f #4 0xffffffff80f78029 at trap_pfault+0x49 #5 0xffffffff80f777f7 at trap+0x2c7 #6 0xffffffff80f57dac at calltrap+0x8 #7 0xffffffff80dee7e2 at kmem_back+0xf2 #8 0xffffffff80dee6c0 at kmem_malloc+0x60 #9 0xffffffff80de6172 at keg_alloc_slab+0xe2 #10 0xffffffff80de8b7e at keg_fetch_slab+0x14e #11 0xffffffff80de83b4 at zone_fetch_slab+0x64 #12 0xffffffff80de848f at zone_import+0x3f #13 0xffffffff80de4b99 at uma_zalloc_arg+0x3d9 #14 0xffffffff82351ab2 at zio_write_compress+0x1e2 #15 0xffffffff8235074c at zio_execute+0xac #16 0xffffffff80b4ed74 at taskqueue_run_locked+0x154 #17 0xffffffff80b4fed8 at taskqueue_thread_loop+0x98 Uptime: 40m34s Dumping 5489 out of 32379 MB:..1%..11%..21%..31%..41%..51%..61%..71%..81%..91% Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/geom_mirror.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/geom_mirror.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/geom_mirror.ko Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/zfs.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/zfs.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/zfs.ko Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/opensolaris.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/opensolaris.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/opensolaris.ko Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/accf_data.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/accf_data.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/accf_data.ko Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/accf_http.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/accf_http.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/accf_http.ko Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/cc_htcp.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/cc_htcp.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/cc_htcp.ko Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/ums.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/ums.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/ums.ko Reading symbols from /boot/kernel/tmpfs.ko...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug//boot/kernel/tmpfs.ko.debug...done. done. Loaded symbols for /boot/kernel/tmpfs.ko #0 0xffffffff80af68fb in doadump (textdump=0) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:309 309 if (dumping) (kgdb) bt #0 0xffffffff80af68fb in doadump (textdump=0) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:309 #1 0xffffffff80af6925 in doadump (textdump=) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:315 #2 0xffffffff80af671b in kern_reboot (howto=260) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:382 #3 0xffffffff80af6b41 in vpanic (fmt=, ap=0xfffffe084ed93c50) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:769 #4 0xffffffff80af6983 in panic (fmt=0x0) at /usr/src/sys/kern/kern_shutdown.c:706 #5 0xffffffff80f77fcf in trap_fatal (frame=0xfffffe084ed93e40, eva=90) at /usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c:875 #6 0xffffffff80f78029 in trap_pfault (frame=0xfffffe084ed93e40, usermode=0) at /usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c:712 #7 0xffffffff80f777f7 in trap (frame=0xfffffe084ed93e40) at /usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/trap.c:514 #8 0xffffffff80f57dac in Xtss_pti () at /usr/src/sys/amd64/amd64/exception.S:159 #9 0xffffffff80dff90d in vm_page_rename (m=0x3ff, new_object=0xfffff80018d8d000, new_pindex=) at /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_page.c:1342 #10 0xffffffff80dee7e2 in kmem_suballoc (parent=0x262, min=0x14000, max=0xffffffff81ebc558, size=874980, superpage_align=) at /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_kern.c:290 #11 0xffffffff80dee6c0 in kmem_alloc_contig (vmem=0xfffffe00d59d0000, size=18446744071594296576, flags=, low=18446735303990395200, high=257, alignment=18446735278033391616, boundary=18446735278033391616, memattr=-16 '�') at /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_kern.c:254 #12 0xffffffff80de6172 in uma_prealloc (zone=0x0, items=1322860228) at /usr/src/sys/vm/uma_core.c:3150 #13 0xfffff806240140f0 in ?? () #14 0xfffffe00c51f357e in ?? () #15 0xfffffe00d59b0000 in ?? () #16 0xfffff8000d460498 in ?? () #17 0xfffff80624014140 in ?? () #18 0x02fffe00c520c000 in ?? () #19 0xfffff8000d460480 in ?? () #20 0xfffff8000d4641c0 in ?? () #21 0x0000000000000000 in ?? () Current language: auto; currently minimal As I said in the PR, I've had memtest86 running for 8h with no reported problem. So I think I can rule out memory problems. I don't really have any experience debugging panics because in the last 20-odd years of running FreeBSD, there rarely were any... Best Regards Rainer From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Oct 3 14:16:55 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7327E10C468E for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 14:16:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071847C5D1 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 14:16:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id BCBA610C468D; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 14:16:54 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA99210C468C for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 14:16:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from constantine.ingresso.co.uk (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b90:3002:411::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37C3C7C5D0 for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 14:16:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from [2a02:b90:3002:411::6] (helo=dilbert.ingresso.co.uk) by constantine.ingresso.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1g7hxI-000J3x-5x for stable@freebsd.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:16:48 +0000 Received: from petefrench by dilbert.ingresso.co.uk with local (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1g7hxI-0001E0-1a for stable@freebsd.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:16:48 +0100 To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Latest STABLE locks up on boot for me Message-Id: From: Pete French Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 15:16:48 +0100 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:16:55 -0000 I just upgraded to STABLE, having been running r338093 since the end of August, and was su[psised when it locked up on boot for me. By which I mean the keyboard is unresponsible and the SATA drive access LED is on permamently. I have a small encryopted partition, and the boot gets as far as asking for the password for that, but afterwards it then freezes with the last thing I see being the line about unblocking the random device. It does this even if I boot in safe mode. The machine is booting ZFS (unencrypted) and is a Ryzen CPU. I will start trying to work out where the offending commit is, but if anyone has an insight which might help shortcut the process then please let me know. cheers,m -pete. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Oct 3 16:56:29 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24D0210A65AA for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:56:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from constantine.ingresso.co.uk (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b90:3002:411::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCC7A84CAF for ; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 16:56:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from dilbert.london-internal.ingresso.co.uk ([10.64.50.6]) by constantine.ingresso.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1g7kRm-000KhL-8P for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:56:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Latest STABLE locks up on boot for me To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: From: Pete French Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 17:56:26 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 16:56:29 -0000 On 03/10/2018 15:16, Pete French wrote: > The machine is booting ZFS (unencrypted) and is a Ryzen CPU. I will > start trying to work out where the offending commit is, but if anyone > has an insight which might help shortcut the process then please let me know. Been testing various kernels since I posted this, currently at r338931 which runs fine. Will continue on Friday as am not inf ront of the machine tomorrow. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Oct 3 21:05:18 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C7610AD807; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF7A88F691; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id 673363C475F; Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:16 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 21:05:16 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Subject: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2018 21:05:18 -0000 --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl The criteria for exception are: - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be deemed satisfy the "popular" requirement. - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. The full FCP-0101 is included below. -- Brooks --- authors: Brooks Davis state: feedback --- # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before FreeBSD 13. ## Problem Statement Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to iflib, but each additional driver takes work. 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). ## Proposed Solution We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This will entail: - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes to FreeBSD 12. - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprecated devices. Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be deemed satisfy the "popular" requirement. - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usable. - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) ### Exceptions to removal Device | Reason -------|------------------------------------------------- ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. dc | Popular device for CardBus card. hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. xl | Popular device for CardBus card. Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. ### Device to be removed ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe ## Final Disposition TBD --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJbtS8LAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAgGIIAIf/HrZS1GimKs2lATax83yk 8LzR3qFz0t5ZJAzYjh6u+BjXxBM2cca8MhLHojG+qMzMVpKsSZ0x97YJyxg8Eu+o urJ5gDZ1wb6hcfRcrbg87/9Ek68gcAjY8MsSNjTJbyAigQmFrRVkhdELn4QF3wU7 hU+1LOmbtL/yp3qk2Ub/wd1zeOu6MKd5mcFbAOjWHxV9Yz5Mb/uisVtuOeEPmStT zm8UcjAwlBJXR2j2O1/u0JXh1oEh4gXA6ARD3G2Gtr+peKiLcpiEPzttvidAtrdQ PevJk/Xp+Tugrl963b0Yg9LLecww+z+Ta8X2NKxULlz0vSzkYQDUl82X2do3jms= =A/uC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 03:53:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org 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freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE7D10C237E for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:04:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44EB286962 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:04:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0975F10C237D; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:04:02 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3BF10C237C for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:04:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from connect.ultra-secure.de (connect.ultra-secure.de [88.198.71.201]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586B486961 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:04:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: (Haraka outbound); Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:01:17 +0200 Authentication-Results: connect.ultra-secure.de; auth=pass (login); spf=none smtp.mailfrom=ultra-secure.de Received-SPF: None (connect.ultra-secure.de: domain of ultra-secure.de does not designate 127.0.0.10 as permitted sender) receiver=connect.ultra-secure.de; identity=mailfrom; client-ip=127.0.0.10; helo=connect.ultra-secure.de; envelope-from= Received: from connect.ultra-secure.de (webmail [127.0.0.10]) by connect.ultra-secure.de (Haraka/2.6.2-toaster) with ESMTPSA id 86A2C0C1-961A-4337-B172-ED3D6B0CF1BB.1 envelope-from (authenticated bits=0) (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA verify=NO); Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:01:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:01:15 +0200 From: rainer@ultra-secure.de To: Holger Kipp Cc: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 11.2-RELEASE panics with a bit of load In-Reply-To: <6B1BFE46-1ABF-436C-9E85-74DDFCD2BB24@alogis.com> References: <7b8edb650b9d50a03e60335ebc13ada8@ultra-secure.de> <6B1BFE46-1ABF-436C-9E85-74DDFCD2BB24@alogis.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: rainer@ultra-secure.de User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.2.0 X-Haraka-GeoIP: --, , NaNkm X-Haraka-GeoIP-Received: X-Haraka-p0f: os="undefined undefined" link_type="undefined" distance=undefined total_conn=undefined shared_ip=Y X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on spamassassin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Haraka-Karma: score: 6, good: 721, bad: 0, connections: 727, history: 721, pass:all_good, relaying X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:04:02 -0000 Am 2018-10-04 05:53, schrieb Holger Kipp: > Dear Rainer, > > if no one else is experiencing these errors, then it is probably a > hardware error. > I had once encountered problems with incompatible memory (combination > of memory (ok with other boards) and board (ok with other memory) did > not work properly). The issue could be triggered with a simple > buildworld within minutes. However memtest86 could run for hours > without finding a thing. > Please don‘t rely on memtest86 if it does not report any problems. > > To be sure: check / adjust memory timings, remove and/or replace > memory modules and try to trigger the error again. > > Best regards, > Holger Kipp I have this problem on two machines, actually. It would be highly unlikely for both to have hardware problems. Though possible, of course. Reducing ARC seems to help, though, and I assume that is the problem the machine ran into because I still have 29GB out of 32GB wired now, with an ARC limited to 60% of kmem_size. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 08:44:12 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E04A10C4AD7; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:44:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danfe@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5DAB8A8A5; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:44:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danfe@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1033) id 81F071E8BF; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:44:11 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:44:11 +0000 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: Brooks Davis Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.5 (2018-04-13) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 08:44:12 -0000 On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +0000, Brooks Davis wrote: > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 Holy shit! OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs are in fact 100. > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly is the burden here? Another question: why the fuck FreeBSD likes to kill non-broken, low-volatile and perfectly working stuff? We offer probably the best NIC driver support on the block, yet you're proposing to shrink one of the few areas where we shine. WTF?! > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe ae(4) was used in Asus EeePC 701/900 which are still popular among hackers. My home router uses sf(4) happily. It's a dual-port card and I don't want to look for expensive and completely needless replacement. Other people have already told you about ed/rl/etc. > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. As it can be seen this list tends to cover nearly all 100 cards, yet no one (pardon me if I missed those) asks for 10. So how about making this proposal cover only 10 cards, if you can't resist the itch to remove something from the tree? ./danfe From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 09:41:34 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D6A410C6281; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:41:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-stable@sentry.org) Received: from shadow.sentry.org (shadow.sentry.org [210.8.237.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "shadow.sentry.org", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9FD2D8C87F; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:41:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-stable@sentry.org) Received: from shadow.sentry.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by shadow.sentry.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w949S6MX080717; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:28:06 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from freebsd-stable@sentry.org) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Brooks Davis Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> From: Trev Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:28:06 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (shadow.sentry.org [0.0.0.0]); Thu, 04 Oct 2018 19:28:06 +1000 (AEST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:41:34 -0000 > On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +0000, Brooks Davis wrote: > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. Sill using my Asus EeePC 701 (just bought a new battery pack) for FreeBSD with ae nic (and I do not foresee discontinuing its use any time soon as its serial port comes in handy for talking to other serial devices). From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 10:57:44 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC18310C85B2 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:57:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meowthink@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F208F7FA for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:57:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meowthink@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id ED3EC10C85AE; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:57:43 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB76010C85AD for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:57:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meowthink@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com (mail-ot1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E0B48F7F7 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:57:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meowthink@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id c18-v6so8721983otm.3 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 03:57:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=78co82TNNh+fpuuZLLttqnuE9hU6Pr/4AcXwlbZPNDY=; b=gIbuUiewIUC01C3fmBgPFQaA9JMqEEEEOaEQUlUyHW5WAJXwLFY+gVBkb4w+tOyMKb 6n4R9+4SDRvkzucgJ1CG/kaGTaMxcfJi9/m6/hbB/HDvd4gSgaiEYU97hgGTSbltf+tN 8GkcuS6lhUsAJbZV50623aMhhS9CghhtcKGEbe+PMngLJ5K8i7jjcwlNMcOdZR3oXnrc VNawbKZgDnfUMVn46fypCjpKWiZLlkPVRL8VaTCeuWwAXqfl30XZ2qyVvP95uKBoXews JZmzioEkiOIudDYnp/MFN86GLdRwsnQPciIilQJMsrhfG+YB6CnKtoPVuj9WqH1nf25l ui5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=78co82TNNh+fpuuZLLttqnuE9hU6Pr/4AcXwlbZPNDY=; b=jy5JaAMgZvL4T/nDuncRZWGeks+lnPA0/BBZ3WlFdUh3hzv4IUfowJuczB6PnA16mB dkPHerEYyci8VzthejUDt78lXNiPiOo9nYzKohb8uqajjsSQp8YItJGc4Y5oVZ6+2UJK lP12LXOzJ63zrcNO6g9mFjZcHJkwdhA0EsqPU624bOd/RwFoQ8n2O6T6RKwUCH08ji+x zkfhYLh6Pw9B5fjgTR9y4dQv2wjHx6XS6/d8B5OZThehJma1sU5IzqxeUgzGEJVnGyjo mbkr+fNkRVfh0JbzrwE+R+aTPev8PwOH7PH6q6LV4S96PxPajSITvDvqfjtkz4aKw2Y/ mtng== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohEdwcSL8mHsJ/11KUmZfynmRHnBU+CjIDu2C2iPx+CSc+n8AzX Wp6L8Y3kZxiwFWbN49xa4Kmen1pSi/eK95nc0u6jw/zZXbU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV6082O6ysatXmmTdmeO9+0WxHTwfaoQikkCPcPG9Y2WqwgIrGD1SCSdP3JrW/M1R0m5C+oTRi3kmfFcjUBuARYI= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:43a3:: with SMTP id t35mr3597208ote.40.1538650662765; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 03:57:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7b8edb650b9d50a03e60335ebc13ada8@ultra-secure.de> <6B1BFE46-1ABF-436C-9E85-74DDFCD2BB24@alogis.com> In-Reply-To: From: Meowthink Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:57:30 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: 11.2-RELEASE panics with a bit of load To: rainer@ultra-secure.de Cc: stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:57:44 -0000 Hi Rainer, I do noticed that the default vfs.zfs.arc_max seems too aggressive, as it will cause tings like rsync swapping in and out, esp. on configs having 32GB RAM, and smaller. So if a reduced arc_max works, I'd suggest you check your swap device. Some SSDs are known to have issues under huge IO workload, like high latency thus abort host commands and force the system reties on read. Regards, meowthink On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 3:06 PM wrote: > > Am 2018-10-04 05:53, schrieb Holger Kipp: > > Dear Rainer, > > > > if no one else is experiencing these errors, then it is probably a > > hardware error. > > I had once encountered problems with incompatible memory (combination > > of memory (ok with other boards) and board (ok with other memory) did > > not work properly). The issue could be triggered with a simple > > buildworld within minutes. However memtest86 could run for hours > > without finding a thing. > > Please don=E2=80=98t rely on memtest86 if it does not report any proble= ms. > > > > To be sure: check / adjust memory timings, remove and/or replace > > memory modules and try to trigger the error again. > > > > Best regards, > > Holger Kipp > > > > I have this problem on two machines, actually. > It would be highly unlikely for both to have hardware problems. > Though possible, of course. > > Reducing ARC seems to help, though, and I assume that is the problem the > machine ran into because I still have 29GB out of 32GB wired now, with > an ARC limited to 60% of kmem_size. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 11:30:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D5A10A3A26; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:30:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5B8190D7C; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82562CD9; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:30:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:30:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zyxst.net; h= from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=u 0/+4vTeyUtZEdHMOWufT0+0I+A2Wx9kDDPIjy9Z6F4=; b=03m9wIpuzTWydipnp O4u17hZGbdpHz2Yps0V0Saej05E/3CYyNk+b64fBomP3FSuslPtxy7q5Z39wT4MS wODvVnS6/UKv3GJVJxGRKXLlNNZHiEb/49i5VchShPkYTufAiKlJ+Q5yBnr+WYM7 JslPc5vDNOaDmnyUJJg3Q8VFzKcVLG15+LWu9dy0VNkCpE7YLrW2GRLk3lv/l87z pXB1QUc1fbFdVuLXZyrAPAzLk8zs3zfx5bTzVRUKm+ydqaBsARAftBAuao+/HDNS eVG5RAw/D5pnkP3XSFpFqf9/jsWOPmtvPGvhCmf3vxdQ+wQylJofl1tt0rcoDgwg FYqig== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=u0/+4vTeyUtZEdHMOWufT0+0I+A2Wx9kDDPIjy9Z6 F4=; b=tSF2dWqWsegvuri3VVbQQi7sccrOPc/1Uyln/r0TCp4cCI1gORxY2UNe1 p6Dg25c7vYJke0txGnUkSoRjWQNtv/8pWfDJ4RUUglPCH9Ab6b0uO6xMA4UWW4Gs dlyEFQthhHDXBp3XnDffYDzcyrXeFfZCCazOBR3FFCCsAzC+0sf+suAYjStgS7nx njxq3wMlFY9rc7m2Io9yA4/rke0vqYsBS4HrpxGl4RcAT9IfSppwDM6IGsLX/17Y CGrqkNaOwY1Gxt/XE5qIoUJ9pooZy21FW9H5Q8ft6SBB1Wib8B4VJAQ5c5Fgr+ya U9juHXMnnKubI19Arz9lCwe9LGUvA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.1.15] (parsley.growveg.org [82.70.91.97]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A1497102DE; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:30:45 -0400 (EDT) From: tech-lists Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Brooks Davis , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Organization: zyxst.net Message-ID: <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:30:45 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:30:56 -0000 On 03/10/18 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote: > We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe Please do not remove rl. I have two rl interfaces in a machine built in 2011 still in daily use. One rl interface is an aftermarket card bought new in *2016*. The other one is built into the motherboard. That's just the stuff I personally own. rl is in lots of machines which will probably still be running a decade from now. I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. -- J. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 11:44:52 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F37210A4811 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:44:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alex.mckeever@sbcglobal.net) Received: from sonic303-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic303-25.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.64.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8838F91B8D for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:44:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alex.mckeever@sbcglobal.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s2048; t=1538653489; bh=AeVDs83FivH0Fsoo0yVGwGM4y5wCfSXOHggV2a6E3Kg=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=KYpu7K++jpMk4azdfuJzeYdVajnKf1abt99Pq0miyRZtyVBJik7De7ODG7YUPFA1786pzKROL6Nkrc2V00/vhm0NZO+DWG1nUj6UrnYun92LYT+MZ4ja+UZD/IG0mWyR9HyMOvzAWWeXsOaRHhUCOR2h50icKd3unDDUv0oeuRM0N1isq90LA+o8dowBXBM3rL0UpqtzcbLSSlJcVHNQDk/0iDsDh5XLJcM8sqUFuyYFBGovSdlpxxstnPyAqEwaWKuJy+3FoJXpa5+XYe9O56aTxhZN5KgHNi3GNTK+Yscq55i+vfwJ+zjoI41pmqG8BOFtfehntE1c0ye1bGkX+Q== X-YMail-OSG: MbZvjfcVM1n1Eya5BLwaWMWkLCzb685LJCGU_E9NbcPED816n5vVzpyjA7rIHwO GDTgzvl_77iwfka2.mOzczKwS86RkHCD_0l.srHzWJR2Agnb8H.JFJgOiDVP6pdEGKM5C2mrOvw1 QWg_70TQrhXzifJ8oYinM0HsmUaf1TmNtzV2GuT2ejJJ3uoNNaUPIYrorrF9V_M99HjI_oSm9KpH n9RVXnhMjGH6hZwW2pzbX5bvAMQXnAfjMbUG94lq96IlJ0BwiWgbCDfohO.IJ1DoKdtU2N8EH800 Y1qXt4bbsmr7OnjEkwVw0eq4kQvJaFGDmlRhOm_GU.AgP.lwgb8m6l_fZkIAi_.TtSG6Cv5l7Bsd x1dkIUHw_Gq9mMLlDBFNWWhEPgqMKIEusJsAckeqEqRhQIDIn_h6pnTxh4YbzMWHBHeKggpmIeCG 7GeOvB8ORdn6gCB1pCt0JVXXfZFgTaqJ3w7Yj6OOkYzEVXeXrKGERscQ4R_wtqMkpejw3dKd92vy L9VvmvHcGpAjyQhGXGjVo9rkW_zYPg4QsU_d8YutyWqD1_xujXnHJTyr_T9ipbJexc614lgcFqLJ LXYkWENoIW5UrE_iHO9axDVpPFUzEpHrHWylxw.6XKgpHixIqLveNScumkRrB3DHo4YPxfnX1kHH XkXy54e6eluvJBYvI1CcweKjWREbUmmuDqZlB.3447tE88VZnmm6JMiZzfYlNwYHfFdLTZDwkOg0 zx8QTKTF3eZ7BfiF.1_309H1dCeVf.9d5KSKoLklCv9QDFpEAY4CDu8Ht14jrGVYBHXep1WbwSDz ibGI175ElQdCMQ7O2y.B2WcfkWXIC1V3JlqhsHiJ50TM7RAROXT9qUacFTeSnkebOcBD5sfptS1. yE8ed8ipkkdQ5qQikpht5Pv.0_Y1WGC4hSGnNbZw0H09hgvq5vHQnQdB32clB7N2bxIodQO415Uf ElkahKrMnz5TrirlpPMAHnf5I_9beYx84ZI87C0mmKAL5E_OX5XXjt4JEFu.zE9Xim.6NDusIEKl 0s4eKT1VeC9lRy8fuo5HjsMBW Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic303.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:44:49 +0000 Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:34:30 +0000 (UTC) From: Alex McKeever To: FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Stable Message-ID: <187374964.4382554.1538652870884@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?FreeBSD_12_PowerPC_won=E2=80=99t_boot_at_all.?= MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <187374964.4382554.1538652870884.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12512 YahooMailIosMobile Raven/43185 CFNetwork/974.2.1 Darwin/18.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:44:52 -0000 Subject says it all, that and it inverts the boot selector when selected. T= ested it on my eMac G4 1.25 GHz (Retail). Last version of FreeBSD that work= s for me is 11.1, as 11.2 doesn=E2=80=99t boot all the way (hangs on crypto= soft0) Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 12:06:41 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F03010A6F55; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:06:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cmt@burggraben.net) Received: from smtp.burggraben.net (smtp.burggraben.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:140:50a2::3:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ns.exwg.net", Issuer "Christoph Moench-Tegeder" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A144892A63; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:06:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cmt@burggraben.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.burggraben.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CF666002F6; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:06:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Scanned: by amavisd-new at exwg.net Received: from smtp.burggraben.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ns.burggraben.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id quPWIdgyPJfD; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:06:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elch.exwg.net (elch.exwg.net [IPv6:2001:470:7120:1:127b:44ff:fe4f:148d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "elch.exwg.net", Issuer "Christoph Moench-Tegeder" (verified OK)) by smtp.burggraben.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:06:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elch.exwg.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CA8BB2733A; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:06:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:06:26 +0200 From: Christoph Moench-Tegeder To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Brooks Davis , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004120626.GA39489@elch.exwg.net> Mail-Followup-To: Alexey Dokuchaev , Brooks Davis , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:06:41 -0000 ## Alexey Dokuchaev (danfe@FreeBSD.org): > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > Holy shit! OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't > seen one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > are in fact 100. Don't panic - they're talking about removing the 100 MBps NICS, not the 100 GBps NICs. Jokes aside - obviously there are very different populations of NICS. Here, the only 100MBps interface is in the IP phone, and I would guess that even most consumer hardware comes with a GBps interface on board (heck, even RPis have a GBit interface, even if can't use more than 30% of it's bandwith). Checking with a hardware-dealer: very few NICs in their catalog are 100MBps, most are gigabit-grade. I would have expected that things look different in the embedded world... On the other hand, some data centers I know routinely use 10GBps, and 1 GBps is considered "legacy" there. So, perceptions are very different... let's keep this rational and make a list of cards still in use. Regards, Christoph -- Spare Space From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 12:35:20 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A6D10A850A; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:35:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from smtp.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83199407F; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:35:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@des.no) Received: from next.des.no (smtp.des.no [194.63.250.102]) by smtp.des.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E8EE8846; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:35:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by next.des.no (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 06A59B660; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:35:19 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Brooks Davis , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers In-Reply-To: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> (Alexey Dokuchaev's message of "Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:44:11 +0000") References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (berkeley-unix) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:35:18 +0200 Message-ID: <86va6h7uux.fsf@next.des.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:35:20 -0000 Alexey Dokuchaev writes: > Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. Please do not confuse =E2=80=9Cnobody is maintaining them=E2=80=9D with =E2= =80=9Cthey don't need maintenance=E2=80=9D, because they do. And please assume good faith. Broo= ks asked for people to speak up if they care about some of the drivers he proposed to remove; all you had to do was say =E2=80=9CI still use this dri= ver=E2=80=9D. There was no need to attack him, much less to swear. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@des.no From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 13:07:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8330F10A9A30 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:07:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd29.google.com (mail-io1-xd29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A27E1958EC for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:07:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd29.google.com with SMTP id t7-v6so7787505ioj.13 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 06:07:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9mIHULBX1kVwtTwodZcHYwSmmtg1NerNJ6YRELoeZbs=; b=mC9mykkocwqgYjG1HmWAop3WNmcXs+XzC52j83sF1JwIlSH/scLbKSFMPD/PsDLCMS FGa3isvhCmfGQHRJKb8QI55hupzsjwifTuPp6irEc+V99xi/pVwohtAV8z0PhwWB3mZ7 xj3KtClKF7uIEpuoMQjm0H+5e281892F0gcuptX2QUMPIJYdkRu4BLfgrgHRTwOZD/WK nNhU7VrMUc0KBY9kWhWSYJBjHE7CmxFHbgX922n2XzBL73DpydwGOLYTP6fNIZFQR0GZ 4glKio1n5lbZZvWNpLn3SlXLHJCt2Z7JIc71JsYxIGA2r7rgv/It6/T0pUvb+8S9bbvO x/qA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9mIHULBX1kVwtTwodZcHYwSmmtg1NerNJ6YRELoeZbs=; b=BWQWLDhNPhI2iXxqeBKuOQHZkB8rZBgIVK55F0VDVaSOMVYsPd1v1cftfhRskXalTv MOxY1GP9i5iJCpzFI0hB58glMmFYOb4XoJeXbwvCRO8kqDV3Uhs2hl0gdRkmWk8yaA+m ujN48k10q+9MEzP0iI8dcBWQTJbFozKOKs4Ny7K/qWXsHcDfXzXJTxgxz1+n/kmtS0GR zgvPfzWQEAvnnQh++dxRDH5upux8ltRGUkPUSZbL4VtYj6Xx2sxVUXub8WwmYnhx05TD d/F+CcxU1RMTTtiQpt3rJ/P4jUGn83AwJ6Q56C6OEiFG2Jn709loFcy+kptzO8bmrudt 8Ydw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohqwPBUrOXB7cNgRPBMlM8wRb5oPewkAJ6YLRScnthRHq1VD9E1 DSumH/QkHrS50XPAcVmwQt4cIb0t34th7R33or/dXw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV6248mDexwkUBIAGL9LrKwjM5xJbv162K5jpqnZafffvRm2Mlh1/tMaHrYBQRcyI6tE2SnUGAHv5EFLuRIl71UU= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:e715:: with SMTP id b21-v6mr4537243ioh.37.1538658474822; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 06:07:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 07:07:43 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Brooks Davis , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:07:56 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 2:45 AM Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly > is the burden here? > I believe that characterization is incorrect. There's a burden. And it's death of a thousand cuts. And many of those cuts have been inflicted on brooks@. Most of these drivers have had dozens or hundreds of commits each over the years to keep up with the API changes. This acts as a tax on innovation because it's such a pain in the back side to change all the drivers in the tree. I did a back of the envelope computation that this is on the order of hundreds of hours of time, spread across all the drivers over all the years we've supported them. Some of these drivers are clearly unused, and so that's 100% wasted effort. Most of these drivers are on machines that most likely won't be able to run 13.0 well when it comes out in 2 years due to increased memory demands that it will almost certainly have. The declining use means we anticipate that if we were to maintain them until 13, it would be wasted effort for at least some on the list. That's why that one way to get the driver off the list is to convert to iflib. That greatly reduces the burden by centralizing all the stupid, common things of a driver so that we only have to change one place, not dozens. At the root of this problem is the community's long resistance to having data reported back to the project data about the machines running FreeBSD. Absent any real and significant data, the only way to know if things are unused is to ask. We cannot have the act of merely asking cause people to freak out and hurl expletives all over the place. That's significantly not cool. Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 13:59:51 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA6310AB5B1; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:59:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41ACC97B84; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:59:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109031483F; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:59:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94DxmIW089561 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:59:48 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w94Dxlto089560; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 13:59:47 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Warner Losh cc: Alexey Dokuchaev , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Net , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <89558.1538661587.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:59:47 +0000 Message-ID: <89559.1538661587@critter.freebsd.dk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:59:51 -0000 -------- In message , Warner Losh writes: >Most of these drivers have had dozens or hundreds of commits each over th= e >years to keep up with the API changes. This acts as a tax on innovation >because it's such a pain in the back side to change all the drivers in th= e >tree. As one who has been there, a couple of times: SECONDED! It is particular unpleasant when you have no way to test the changes. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 14:26:53 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A9810AC536; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:26:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [18.222.6.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0A9870EAB; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:26:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (unknown [18.188.142.31]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F052016E65; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:26:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:26:44 +0000 From: Mark Linimon To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Brooks Davis , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004142644.GA17270@lonesome.com> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:26:53 -0000 On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > are in fact 100. Sigh. If you really plan to still be using i386 and 10/100 ether in 2024, perhaps you should consider NetBSD. You can buy used core i5 laptops for around $20 if you shop around. mcl From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 14:38:52 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFC010ACC26; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:38:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-TO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr670084.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.67.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F02F771656; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:38:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from YTOPR0101MB1820.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (52.132.44.160) by YTOPR0101MB1980.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (52.132.50.161) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1207.23; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:38:49 +0000 Received: from YTOPR0101MB1820.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::65af:417a:161f:f4eb]) by YTOPR0101MB1820.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::65af:417a:161f:f4eb%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1207.021; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:38:49 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Warner Losh , Alexey Dokuchaev CC: "freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Net , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Thread-Topic: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Thread-Index: AQHUW75rx+tO2i59GUe7XUN0ESb1HKUPDvyAgAAYPpE= Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:38:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rmacklem@uoguelph.ca; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; YTOPR0101MB1980; 6:kV5ZB4JSEYRVf3zHXpxavNILmzqqRhPIFGsfl390ay3wuf3q8bqHLuteczFawiXlbJZgHIJ4D4KiCQOMIYy3m+dYD28nQNO22AGpglBeqXkBDNuhC5jUsx44UbV82m2dnI6YoISNINVGjdxJxZtqcoKmzNU6KpOf9/Ft8ALI/90mWeuWxo0U7X9qbkPiCSnud4rqLWGZad1SAewCm2uBewvphu3EuN59oR0Lp45d7077W38jTinPGs0zh62xOfPY0BtF8PnFzfHz66Ej5AaTemuYnBH/yNRa40npZNEGooq3dNYgwo9Eykj7XU/QukJWdQYA57c6WMftc2JQEL53nXY2a7vgu/usmW4ywzzr7AwPkuea/J5VjFTYMDFbPL5gVTcFyxh4GjTYOI3lOfP5Fr1JSr1mz3IQXJYtXuPGepXA3pgK/5CHe3UbaaMSoehVyIYiBUpEWcjyIzpyzkVIxA==; 5:VVHaBrd/Xo8/C+Fm+Eqbl4byLGis9Bd3HGB6pnFaag9dNGpqh/JHPfRNseiOk2EQcLc3R8gG5jC5OfHRczAvw+XktzX+/ah9tva9iPr4dLk7GSaZKIz+r3nQ+gvulhOQFm/5AA0ci0xdOVcJ1dCamAzIRFRc6iDanVShO9eJbkk=; 7:oNvWsvNBq41VxbUuEwoY5300e0XIc7nt/NbAsCIxf/z6YwX2BmPBiWITE8e3wyUTIpmqYXd/8fcP01PQVpzD4iPxaw/QEZXS4MzXWtw5s3HB49pLcOGBDeBPCo3nHT4KjiQo3JwWZUSxRXy8lPGnUdibt8Q0QRRjPy9qfgk5PwPThRztCVAV9rhf2ICKvjCubDy/PpoMSIA2XIrcA12yIKRUx9jseRkN0u8jAi1SskTcnIE4MHCWkp/RS6sm0z2Z x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f3cfb827-9c8d-42a7-de02-08d62a071946 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:YTOPR0101MB1980; H:YTOPR0101MB1820.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: uoguelph.ca does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: dUiyQ2ENIUTCNV/XbdypwGDzOVtIuOzFqyn2XBZRtT/adkv3RQjoRbq5D3CkAMr4oATDrDQg9Mqa1yQ9SiEuXudftgsq4jt6Hh81gYKKvg1BeMeH3SNIlZaUhOeebJZfymZarU85duc8XIu2yUf2/i5OPsyxnygBBsaK7fr/Cl5DBaZFSXckAOMu5IxE02Fq11lvBDGFlBLRXOu35HtbYpFy3icXOATqClKrXbq2XD666Hxhb7hjaaCCqmIFiWVqR4OqnHj38zdOgvJ6xYKCwmlL7IvVORNtGipz92gnYoV5JZ+951g/Bt3wRsDJQME5mxJ5P5MWo4m1FLIA0FeHrOgSlH42F2aLdtH4rgM7C4k= spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: uoguelph.ca X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f3cfb827-9c8d-42a7-de02-08d62a071946 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Oct 2018 14:38:49.6125 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: be62a12b-2cad-49a1-a5fa-85f4f3156a7d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: YTOPR0101MB1980 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:38:52 -0000 Warner Losh wrote: [lots of stuff snipped] >That's why that one way to get the driver off the list is to convert to >iflib. That greatly reduces the burden by centralizing all the stupid, >common things of a driver so that we only have to change one place, not >dozens. I can probably do this for bfe and fxp, since I have both. Can someone suggest a good example driver that has already been converted, so I can see what needs to be done? Again, I don't care if they stay in the current/head tree. [more stuff snipped] rick From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 14:40:12 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0644D10ACD52; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:40:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danfe@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABE727183D; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danfe@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1033) id A3C634C48; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:40:11 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:40:11 +0000 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: Mark Linimon Cc: Brooks Davis , freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004144011.GA70537@FreeBSD.org> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <20181004142644.GA17270@lonesome.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181004142644.GA17270@lonesome.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.5 (2018-04-13) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:40:12 -0000 On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 02:26:44PM +0000, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > > one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > > are in fact 100. > > Sigh. If you really plan to still be using i386 and 10/100 ether in > 2024, perhaps you should consider NetBSD. I don't quite understand why are you grouping 10/100 vs. 1000 rather than 10 vs. 100/1000. ./danfe From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 14:43:46 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A99810AD289 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:43:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x12f.google.com (mail-it1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C76C71EBB for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:43:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id j81-v6so13440887ite.0 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mSYsp+MPBtH1sN6OJmBg072JbNMsaRf5Beq+czvHypk=; b=ZBEO2NPYh/v1rzdKzuHejRB8k5+Ijmf7/pmNPfFnQVFfdJ0Duy9YC88iIpn/SctkOe z8s1CpvFycrm66y2Ewy4JHH6X1BU2AV1bXO5u6Oxm1ihyQXDzOlYm8RCBpVrvSfAwQzS +L1NQveWIx5pJCXYrN6ctGi9AgOWg4WYN4q+J0j2lXrlkopNOg2yd+63Wcuux/wWAEb7 PLSTzHMFlLx5zcs5pYfciIDh9gXKkZ7vGgcHLZtD8rsCBjDqCDdZOD8iDuhZeuqLS4Ny ntQe/jZe+F96/uqUB9w0gvAKuvyXpjSiwDnDYUXBPAnzjrMCUHKU+Hb/uP3EcZVXEyu2 qSeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mSYsp+MPBtH1sN6OJmBg072JbNMsaRf5Beq+czvHypk=; b=Q7cvSMU846b/ry3aPbTPUE30uiBY1+1Gm1U622yY9ecI0Lmmn/iSHzSeY3mvlr8Ect HJk7zcmBkDV/U2OAwIsq4IdHjM4vLY5gBprBKIiWzSD+vdtm8V1Q4Do4lrIA7wENV9A+ 7+es7MiUGbPKIdYGvky8yTIXbbKrWauy3+tjUiOeAkrhA7iyMTaBdLxkTskxr0At+2BZ K7OeJufkQuWwOGq1leNGuFceT0myERgZbJS6THPMRbt6xpo8/XXg2q7sDCsxHv3CrHuC infy3QfYWmoJUu1MThSKtI/WM704xBRmJ14l9sgXXcDgCUQFVU/+HxYGUuhofUqVhFID /2Cw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojfhns/AwOGihKsAdioqpAqi3jMb0jWxgo7B9l0Jq+zLRUot166 6jE7vfmg8yAbw3opUs3lvJ8nBWc5idTsLDmjFapKbw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63dyT9JCR5N2bY1kW5S8iBZXUw3ujeb8lY6FkIB/7qZkioiIT9k/RW6lAfiJ5Almsu8IDcO4OPa3FFFZQqUp8I= X-Received: by 2002:a24:1c94:: with SMTP id c142-v6mr5269918itc.75.1538664224668; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 07:43:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <20181004142644.GA17270@lonesome.com> <20181004144011.GA70537@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20181004144011.GA70537@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:43:33 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Net , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:43:46 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 02:26:44PM +0000, Mark Linimon wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > > > one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > > > are in fact 100. > > > > Sigh. If you really plan to still be using i386 and 10/100 ether in > > 2024, perhaps you should consider NetBSD. > > I don't quite understand why are you grouping 10/100 vs. 1000 rather than > 10 vs. 100/1000. > As far as I know, none of the drivers listed could do 1Gbps. They were all specifically 10Mbps or 10/100Mbps. Support for 10Mbps or 100Mbps isn't being removed from the tree: there's still dozens of GigE drivers that can do those speeds that have PCI or better bus attachments. Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 15:08:08 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C98110AE224; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:08:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danfe@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7B5973127; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:08:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danfe@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1033) id C00C555FA; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:08:07 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:08:07 +0000 From: Alexey Dokuchaev To: Warner Losh Cc: Mark Linimon , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Net , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004150807.GB70537@FreeBSD.org> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <20181004142644.GA17270@lonesome.com> <20181004144011.GA70537@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.5 (2018-04-13) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:08:08 -0000 On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:43:33AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > As far as I know, none of the drivers listed could do 1Gbps. Right. My point was that original proposal put 10/100 drivers into one basket, which is IMHO not fair: 10Mbps cards are rarely seen and used, 100mbps are not, just like 1000bps ones. That said, I'm okay with deorbiting NICs that cannot do more than 10mbps. Cards that can do at least 100mbps should stay. Following up on Ricks' question, seeing a good example of modernization a certain driver would help interested people/hw owners to keep drivers for their cards viable. ./danfe From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 15:46:13 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1936E10AF7A1; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:46:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F74D74D96; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:46:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 85pBgMWaIwyxU85pCgBVAw; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:46:04 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=NPJhBHyg c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=smKx5t2vBNcA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=mWm0YDQeuCclk_H0j58A:9 a=8wXVE3Uy4fUhRt1V:21 a=4jGVw-z9EJOV3jKp:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_Tt1_Y8nLLjDiYd8RLkA:9 a=g1D6cVUl-6yD_9a0:21 a=-9_FuqygaB4bePlk:21 a=AkvTBx0Z0YGVrdNs:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from [10.168.101.253] (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 79EA3154E; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:47:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:46:03 -0700 To: Poul-Henning Kamp , Warner Losh CC: Alexey Dokuchaev , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <20181004154744.79EA3154E@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfKNMz4m05A6D71Kv19EkrViQQ3A97TBLwVkBHqLUFZnBEkFSrX1z0L1CedVgK4bAIBAhDyuJEetEzBzEg3rYg1A4IAkDmCRxJdqgzkcF8CPWn30MIPkF /AD8VuppSq2LpG6TsXuXcMPlFRqom3Q9XlEl9zgHLPwnEsl6vKhRrrbjzssD4XslX5pyJ0O6G99igClJzMfHpAcbtMqSfq8R+mPYN1vRNUePyV+mO58w8sPX aSb5P8owLANw7TBYwi1iKRoMfRe5bqi/gm7BNFTyllumWBa+zGzA2Fv9rCm+24z4X5bLCwR/PQTfRwiyrj+cotWVUpZDMd/EU+eo+vPhtHsNys0IuW4L/h2x 8ZQr5AfepWncRT7VUEHhtSSe2+n81g== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:46:13 -0000 I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not schedule= d for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, including w= ireless, currently installed here. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. Cy Schubert or The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. --- -----Original Message----- From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: 04/10/2018 07:03 To: Warner Losh Cc: Alexey Dokuchaev; Brooks Davis; FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List; FreeBSD Ne= t; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers -------- In message , Warner Losh writes: >Most of these drivers have had dozens or hundreds of commits each over the >years to keep up with the API changes. This acts as a tax on innovation >because it's such a pain in the back side to change all the drivers in the >tree. As one who has been there, a couple of times: SECONDED! It is particular unpleasant when you have no way to test the changes. --=20 Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe =20 Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 15:52:17 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B193010AFBF3; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:52:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E57F5753B8; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:52:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 85vAgr4GWWppD85vBgpESt; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:52:14 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=YIcrNiOx c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=smKx5t2vBNcA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=LXThwzgc8wN3FM9o13oA:9 a=fqc2PL_DztmBmVzj:21 a=ZEiQw5VPCOVqgmOC:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=AIbFiXiN0DI7uwZkaOQA:9 a=L0QZSfI6CJ03u12I:21 a=H279Z_-4CPkF8jX7:21 a=BSQxGs51GfGbYr7p:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from [10.168.101.253] (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C2A51571; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:53:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:52:14 -0700 To: Rick Macklem , Warner Losh , Alexey Dokuchaev CC: FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org" , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <20181004155355.6C2A51571@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfGMshGmXv5liWXXAk0SNXTIODQak7iDJNiKbtro3L2CrLjwqEP6Oe/u+j7v1fQyS2K9q7yySvQLqFIAj2pCJuyi9kC9q6iH5AL+ygt6FXvC70npchxsy Br09qRjipULCE3Yyun+iTT3l6FdqodsPfURrJ8SVePvCKcbWIsobU0/tNJtN+bXCRQRoz/7dAY7D+KR33fxdExjBVu8HSxuYrjtfmjM3VEgf0g+weYcvjOFR MasDAjgRQ1MB2+kph2Jet9+MaoVZbUAGJIjo5OyWgwEErvyT6+JV8tNhCc+idngEkNlsuEWR7WaWtWP1RHX12csBdpE3m47r6EO3sLBO849bAE7AX6GsMSxa 2OomvdRLZYVYMVzErke/DNPdk7DeO4G9YicW3hk0K+sA7+9O/sg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:52:17 -0000 I have rl, fxp, xl, dc, bge (which I have an uncommitted patch for), nfe, a= nd sk. Not all are scheduled for removal but this is my inventory for which= I can test and am willing to help out with. Add iwn and ath too. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. Cy Schubert or The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. --- -----Original Message----- From: Rick Macklem Sent: 04/10/2018 07:41 To: Warner Losh; Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: FreeBSD Net; freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org; Brooks Davis; FreeBSD-STABLE Mail= ing List; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Warner Losh wrote: [lots of stuff snipped] >That's why that one way to get the driver off the list is to convert to >iflib. That greatly reduces the burden by centralizing all the stupid, >common things of a driver so that we only have to change one place, not >dozens. I can probably do this for bfe and fxp, since I have both. Can someone suggest a good example driver that has already been converted, so I can see what needs to be done? Again, I don't care if they stay in the current/head tree. [more stuff snipped] rick _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 15:53:49 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A277E10AFD1F for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:53:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x134.google.com (mail-it1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3475D75532 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:53:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x134.google.com with SMTP id q70-v6so13785741itb.3 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 08:53:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dB0vU18jO+K8xwwl4vXxW3H0Qrno7/GlJCT85H+qyDI=; b=JqXwPAGzj5oOtDfkXmkQC33LC9adNykBe3EcP4XaczRYrChUI/bxSb/dlD/9+RHwhS txA4L9Pq7QP4n5dTzICmOx34PdpW8TKaIk3b+mKNWlKMMWOTVCc746ctVyH02Ix32z9d bmCtEbcdYiF4N184vnFNG0418MuFjuxouFHyVXfBVOX7cvWVCeOhKPmssXTqPC/YCLV0 cluwtkCCzgdvHzbxvUSoz+jHb8aAnFDF2xrh0GpYgwgKwhPG1HNBuhMnc4kjR5WlN5An v+oDklrJok/UXOpag/zkZ5nispI0DUsxTDIpd1nnYmKJnJ3lkQS7NRwFvBFNwavMrGIh nDtA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dB0vU18jO+K8xwwl4vXxW3H0Qrno7/GlJCT85H+qyDI=; b=bplJ7QaNMbL87oqUYAcdIe6EMBJ1P3m6GbnZl3YhDdSN+objCO6PwjbCZErrfUfaxO 5ipOTGQPn0R108El6EY3DbdtqF64Ru4SQ919VnpmU9edggS06XKsJqHCC3FfIO8lPZTA HYWoh+J+A+shIgvgAxAbR0rkyVGGqlFtZLq8FhiBTzlByn/XzO0UWsv54RGVN56e5cU3 jE2Pxipj0cwHPF6KqDYP2WjMUjW0YvREl1fsYFPn6PhFhWMoM031F/ivM4o1DEEeBgYp P2bMOMn/EA/Sb+DA8fsqwbw406KmLcrLjSqj1CRf0KkY1OFef1upOvc8K/IAtrsegfqz CgUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoi6onYXqBGKrIJSCse8dwLwP4S/nKXXnfwkC01PF7pHlu/goI52 ukdADv3mQqBUP9M1TOMq/W0c1SeWk2gy5HiLVupDMQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62WFya3GcyBdemgjkR86qUYoyUcDI0t8MgoNPGjiGk4UzFkvGOPX41a/9xx+XJ+ZSpdsfBVHeOZQb/upa96nJQ= X-Received: by 2002:a24:ac5:: with SMTP id 188-v6mr5112743itw.39.1538668428558; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 08:53:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181004154744.79EA3154E@spqr.komquats.com> In-Reply-To: <20181004154744.79EA3154E@spqr.komquats.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:53:37 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Cy Schubert Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , Alexey Dokuchaev , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:53:49 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert wrote: > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > including wireless, currently installed here. > There's an iflib man page that's a decent place to start. The API has evolved over time, so corrections to the man page would be welcome (and committed as quickly as the freeze allows). I'm reading through the current iflib drivers to see which one would be best to recommend. Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 15:59:01 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98BC710B0200; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:59:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 158A575AAB; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:59:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id w94FwtdI007084; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id w94FwtQD007083; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201810041558.w94FwtQD007083@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) CC: Cy Schubert , Alexey Dokuchaev , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , Poul-Henning Kamp , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:59:01 -0000 > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > > including wireless, currently installed here. > > > > There's an iflib man page that's a decent place to start. The API has > evolved over time, so corrections to the man page would be welcome (and > committed as quickly as the freeze allows). I'm reading through the current > iflib drivers to see which one would be best to recommend. Nothing in the current state of the "freeze" would block a man page correction. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 16:07:36 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2E310B0B76; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:07:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7128C76583; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:07:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 86A0gr9VvWppD86A1gpIQi; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:07:34 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=YIcrNiOx c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=smKx5t2vBNcA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=iNGMpphc3T5klhet3SkA:9 a=FwdSzZpY-AED6S4V:21 a=nP5a0vt2DfjzhsF2:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lQAYqbelq4TCjjL6:21 a=yRds3KjQjLn9Fhxo:21 a=51MI_dSXgo8BWtul:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from [10.168.101.253] (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CAFD15E7; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:09:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cy Schubert Subject: RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 09:07:34 -0700 To: Alexey Dokuchaev , Warner Losh CC: Mark Linimon , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net Message-Id: <20181004160915.8CAFD15E7@spqr.komquats.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfPUIH3w5HSxtDe0JC0aDKpqaaCOALBGnuftciLF1uBydigCIIK2DkxiFz+Bgmy6Qjd2BQVIkJlSBQ0FOc/eXlq7nUTVhxIexU+ubFeep1RD+tUzcsS/c gdEelJV4UabnvyXdkHvR1gPgCKseAKsxic+DMSfGBeZPcCgRAu3uxNqtHpPIdjx0G/3Qg+serq0Yw817hcq1TWovTZRXuZvxNe4ggE7fXUgXSitdL93mF5Lg LBpC5msF5BELsc3NqaPhBhXXDIqZR8ncWM5tJogMlLMiPnMqYkMF3kpAAFW0UbxV233GIRiOf99nv5g0eb4qggdgBEVUKMycd20wwV3EItcrow1hfSR9ZKJK o0o/sF6K0brd6CqEr8vuM5xK/tQpwQ== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:07:36 -0000 People need to submit patches then. OTOH, they can all be moved to ports. I= MO, when pkgbase becomes a reality, much of this will become moot. People w= ill be able to mix and match base and ports packages. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. Cy Schubert or The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. --- -----Original Message----- From: Alexey Dokuchaev Sent: 04/10/2018 08:11 To: Warner Losh Cc: Mark Linimon; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org; FreeBS= D-STABLE Mailing List; FreeBSD Net Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:43:33AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > As far as I know, none of the drivers listed could do 1Gbps. Right. My point was that original proposal put 10/100 drivers into one basket, which is IMHO not fair: 10Mbps cards are rarely seen and used, 100mbps are not, just like 1000bps ones. That said, I'm okay with deorbiting NICs that cannot do more than 10mbps. Cards that can do at least 100mbps should stay. Following up on Ricks' question, seeing a good example of modernization a certain driver would help interested people/hw owners to keep drivers for their cards viable. ./danfe _______________________________________________ freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 16:13:14 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1448D10B105D for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:13:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x133.google.com (mail-it1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99E2A76B63 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:13:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x133.google.com with SMTP id p64-v6so14840039itp.0 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:13:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hW4LF5T2u8OYOcB31fyBhLwOhcZMQ5TPUhtlrrhgtNw=; b=tfyI3xuUUzhZlJa8tCz2lTy5+ELwo3YrXTMmIuOcexzqq65kcGtgySqg/28R/tj9LS KKdKzsIWumvTrfnIcM0pT8zO0fSIzyapfpc/p/I1FFDDJ7RRPEVbWROoYVoPvGtm9QFF NE6JfnGPDDrc5VbIORgDrGYEq0igOmtxZP1p8Dt069wHBsrdUJf8ZlDr97GI0s4qqPwp RYUJSubFbH98kmkOVZEFuU456zCbRWbGBor3PHvygdi6v50vk4u25w1Sepqu03QfG1DQ Mf6fAu0ERF9/IQCjSd/po9Rww2cr1Oo3CbopxwEilV38iWfOBbZ1TPJEh/Be4txqxXLN kWIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hW4LF5T2u8OYOcB31fyBhLwOhcZMQ5TPUhtlrrhgtNw=; b=SZc3FElvPP7rhMn2ku4rvyziVQJGGNeSxxMJt6Vco51wQoYTxki3AoQl0cN+BMYpAY ctNdQo2CR8ZZDEbQXhaYW95ZmMeNNkJh2kn6GHEjOBqhXUOcDhFBlHQjhMQ7lNAVHfD4 2nT3JKWRdsjDRKDV3cfb27MTa+LIyyVh4Nw6JCxJ7mEaCgt3dJ8SKfypRSKoB5kqsyKU ctdoTZ/pmPdV4wtraG5ooJ8LKw49W3Ed6nFSopo409TYnH930CQCmwRDCOsZJRGBo3uo JoKTFCenkHdXeHNV25axWS1sZzQbO+Y/RaomgM+Q6CE7D/IKSBXqCWnrovrP2Hs/2xCF xz6g== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogIguBhO9sgjOgeiPCYOxpnvmV13y7CdoQs73he7iW+SGUDwZG/ kxgbKNkedbIzCCiAJnO7AxYCZtrHKH0A94g50YJqLA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62I87M88uG/hXNc/MnJcfL7kXoipkWXzwTvxPct+FOFFvmtw9ZBktHsz8wjyVqkCyYBh62bC2w/nNNjOR3LvOs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:660c:b03:: with SMTP id f3mr5549887itk.60.1538669592788; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:13:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201810041558.w94FwtQD007083@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201810041558.w94FwtQD007083@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:13:01 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Cy Schubert , Alexey Dokuchaev , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , Poul-Henning Kamp , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:13:14 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:59 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert > > wrote: > > > > > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > > > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > > > including wireless, currently installed here. > > > > > > > There's an iflib man page that's a decent place to start. The API has > > evolved over time, so corrections to the man page would be welcome (and > > committed as quickly as the freeze allows). I'm reading through the > current > > iflib drivers to see which one would be best to recommend. > > Nothing in the current state of the "freeze" would block a > man page correction. > All commits, no matter how trivial, require re@ approval. That necessarily slows things down, hence my phrase "as quickly as the freeze allows." Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 16:13:55 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1556B10B111A; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:13:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) Received: from hades.sorbs.net (hades.sorbs.net [72.12.213.40]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC6A676C3D; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:13:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michelle@sorbs.net) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Received: from isux.com (gate.mhix.org [203.206.128.220]) by hades.sorbs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.29.0 64bit (built Jul 9 2013)) with ESMTPSA id <0PG200J3JYUAFP00@hades.sorbs.net>; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 08:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: tech-lists , Brooks Davis , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> From: Michelle Sullivan Message-id: <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 01:13:40 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 SeaMonkey/2.48 In-reply-to: <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:13:55 -0000 tech-lists wrote: > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as far as I can see is just the messenger. -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 16:21:21 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3695210B180C for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:21:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x130.google.com (mail-it1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B89A47748E for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:21:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x130.google.com with SMTP id l191-v6so13926686ita.4 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:21:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9ESKOX6UU+T613F+kxO3YUulh7v4el2l+t1kDe4JsJM=; b=AG3GFqptYCAL+mRUppbSVtfz2ylXcCJlal7dfBpIWSkQW4LSbCzMDpxcy6Dr6WO7KT 2UpyTLCiKTgl95IlryPr3WfD7+IcaMFIPqMR2w3dwX4aVC5a/oH+iMPLH7vArO924Zej Tyd01pUvhZ9MStEBZ/5qq9f08SvNAtycwL/OiSpIDaLRQjqSie7Vwozvo3tz5ZkFTQC8 dHyEPDjqJ2LAVLTVP1vfm+4nOcp4gEOS2rcSzvj94wXL7lP907GT+tAybYMq7OXP9Ft1 Ht47id9ub+xyPNGar3PGltbc2EoNsB0rRUS316TA6+n27Vn5fbCb1iXbL4HujpzyOZKK cObg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9ESKOX6UU+T613F+kxO3YUulh7v4el2l+t1kDe4JsJM=; b=ni3BtmaBa431KuZjqSYd154GIHtBL+R8dhf4GqLR9e2Hb6Q74+OZBFeKmUNqoqRKLJ upPqRFAk5teJcelk8ARScfj5E/QX2MCu4LALVhOmIIGIFtBH9Y8HCoIYeFSZCnu37iOq 3m3ePx/V0WlTBa+4um8bw0Fb2M/1YgfQXmtFWBfmLlVzkR3U9+QIdf0xYhXHgY+4wD9d mTKA2sfhVtz80Wyoh4HOcp6PnDYkBjvC7zlrIPa8cItpXsV5C7l1+YC8b8EnHmWedyLE xV3/EOI56SFw7iQzjEkQf8D/D33Fpi99GM8VJC1ZtwdAMnMNiXaRzrgarMWfhtUXfnCh sL9A== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogz1oYgzofZncKsFAAPhR8vgc7iVGk/QmgZDpI0DDcrDKg702Gj rMdl6tkFJM+e4d3ysryBfuVMC3J9m7p6E9DVD/RuAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61uIP6uHlXelil+bkWSFpCxB/oi2F+bCFR1krxvlAqTrEfCltxcYhed8fdxaL2Mm+H7jfuZY+YBE5pabQWuU74= X-Received: by 2002:a24:1c94:: with SMTP id c142-v6mr5640647itc.75.1538670080011; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 09:21:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> In-Reply-To: <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 10:21:08 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: michelle@sorbs.net Cc: tech-lists , Brooks Davis , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:21:21 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan wrote: > tech-lists wrote: > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as > far as I can see is just the messenger. > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong here in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it was popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had waned much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in them around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we used at Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology because that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 16:22:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7541110B1917; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:22:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E02D77626; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:22:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id E8E343C475F; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:22:25 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 16:22:25 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004162225.GE74146@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:22:27 -0000 --VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< A few points of clarification: Rod correctly points out that this message makes it look like the FCP is a done deal as written. This is not the case and we welcome feedback on the entire proposal. IMO, soliciting input on the list of drivers along with the proposed process is a way to keep discussion concrete so we will proceed with both. It was asked: when does iflib conversion need to occur to save a driver? My proposed plan it to proceed with deprecation notices of otherwise unpopular drivers, but conversion can come in and remove those notices at and upto (or even after) removal from the tree. In an effort to save some email, we will be moving rl(4) to the list of drivers to STAY as it has proved itself to be popular. A few others appear to be well on their way so keep the reports coming. Thanks, Brooks P.S. As a person who has edited every driver in the tree multiple times in the last year (mostly in an external tree), I will consider this process successful even if we keep the majority of listed drivers in the tree. On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +0000, Brooks Davis wrote: > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< >=20 > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. >=20 > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: >=20 > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe >=20 > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: >=20 > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl >=20 > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usabl= e. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) >=20 > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. >=20 > The full FCP-0101 is included below. >=20 > -- Brooks >=20 > --- > authors: Brooks Davis > state: feedback > --- >=20 > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers >=20 > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them before > FreeBSD 13. >=20 > ## Problem Statement >=20 > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. >=20 > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. >=20 > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). >=20 > ## Proposed Solution >=20 > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete depreca= ted > devices. >=20 > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usabl= e. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) >=20 > ### Exceptions to removal >=20 > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. >=20 > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. >=20 > ### Device to be removed >=20 > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe >=20 > ## Final Disposition >=20 > TBD --VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJbtj5BAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAC4wH/203c8m6mZBpqfAuCctlsUsm nJEuJNu9hHYRFe/GZOo5G6l7utCXqgggirIIehYSVP8MoDMBdjFCOKMWhRnqfNgc vZkOEJ04F56y2C1cMWwzBbSkp7omSIoAuIjq2NKZmi0tyY37UKjlvpHUP2LdS0lr eMbug1tgOhXRDGem5+J6hZ/C61F9n9/6l3wdbHGDTGfuR3LdzYVH0M6H3d16OBKW PSNNPnBdK3p8B7HJb6YTryvVJXMajtqg10tvFEWAElLuOc4tieQXfcWH0oSISLZ9 S0kjPyd5exmoosuOxWruuGS3WOEH+0o4TtSys70VyQxRH34h0oGpjCLXedP0ky8= =bJ8N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --VdOwlNaOFKGAtAAV-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 17:38:59 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A5C610B3F3B for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:38:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x142.google.com (mail-it1-x142.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::142]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D09C17B141 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:38:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x142.google.com with SMTP id i76-v6so15214907ita.3 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:38:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SqBfgU3fCH1zqiEW7mq0A7AGd6Y5Qng9r+jOAXqXyfU=; b=glavLR2Jm3bdqDdq4Uk0CAncro430qeKBaT2yH7pwfogcW86cIUZPJcyyZXTqMMrN7 1n+2Hi7q8Yel4RLihxiJ29At4uJPfr1jPX+FBaJhXMLIH79cyb3S8hBwIxDV9iefuAGf QMAfAy75RaRgbkW08QWWzIAbKzS1Uvuos8fhi/ydThxfHtd6TxPLpPOwt0YXExd7y4sI +5u0YQwdqLk5/dRxwb1pYFv4/OGmHPZqfj28VpLg3potUU0nvY+r8FnmpnYojWawG3g0 4uJJ3n8vV1B4iOR6ObAXl9o1ruJ6iagw8bS7FzpzJvTXPPTt3V2RYvIf/jJGKMUKeKPM +NcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SqBfgU3fCH1zqiEW7mq0A7AGd6Y5Qng9r+jOAXqXyfU=; b=d/JP2cQlaLZkCf3zhnelGTLHAoCgpG36YnDNtYHgDbkVW0raf/lEoflhjQIhcs2KV4 InH7+/NV+hpPFCV0XMIGOTDDR3FSGg0v6f4siyqYrGlGOG/4k6SAKq7tL6cG5N6447DF 3q0Ghwaoqa9fd5D7i1sMQy+eFLdYDMa1N/UvmMjmjzzajbId6QDP2Ke1aTvQ+bo9p8+5 qUMWy78ah1xTvTq25dUzxdN866Q7pHOmMCDj8CTSHz7s3zcYU6L3fJmP7BHvDAKpvBep GkHVd53X74ctTgfDuykdFjWFviJUg9aD4PkGZjuO7WO6VtGY9MZaEHK6zld92arw79cg hMVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojo0v7FYc/fXnooCvvX4ea7rPt4av2S/9XNi6Gh04xE53Di4gMh 5PCBEa9OSefPZoefsndTIqzMhPwezO4IENQ2Oa+U+A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62HyqJuIyxVs4At+pv6ID5coX+AMcEgIRUDBqTpQqFsWecMMLrfg24TR7jERGqp0uW5bN2yfD6pP9InwfC3+UY= X-Received: by 2002:a02:31d:: with SMTP id y29-v6mr6016517jad.98.1538674738107; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:38:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:38:46 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Ian Lepore Cc: michelle@sorbs.net, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:38:59 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > wrote: > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as > > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong > here > > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it was > > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had > waned > > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in them > > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we used > at > > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology > because > > that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). > > > > Warner > > 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of Microchip) are > still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping software > updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build systems with a > lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability and > compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a BIG reason > to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. > OK. I'd have thought those SBCs would have gone out of production years ago.... It's a good datapoint to know that there's multiple users of FreeBSD using these parts in products that are still shipping. That's a clear and compelling benefit to the project that offsets the efforts that it's taken them to keep things current with rl. In this case, though, rl is off the list, so that hardware should still be good. The only other SBC I was aware of at Timing Solutions was one that had an 'ed' chip on it (an ISA realtek part IIRC) that was used in around 2001, but in a 'one off' custom setup that I don't think will ever be upgraded.... But I have to ask since I know how things worked during my time there and systems that 'would never be upgraded' often times were later... I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 17:42:52 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F49110B445B for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:42:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.129.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B0B17B84B for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:42:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: a5fd50ef-c7fa-11e8-a70c-1d534e3451d5 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound2.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id a5fd50ef-c7fa-11e8-a70c-1d534e3451d5; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:26:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w94HQbEx000310; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:26:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: Ian Lepore To: Warner Losh , michelle@sorbs.net Cc: FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:26:37 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:42:52 -0000 On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > wrote: > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks.  Brooks as > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong here > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it was > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had waned > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in them > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we used at > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology because > that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). > > Warner 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of Microchip) are still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping software updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build systems with a lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability and compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a BIG reason to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 17:58:42 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A19310B4BAB for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:58:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x12e.google.com (mail-it1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41ECC7C1AF for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:58:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id c23-v6so14358425itd.5 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:58:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=H4wpBeohmCgTa0t3GpKab3BGtsR+5MKwBOnLIofY5fA=; b=vPVKMu8kofxzG53rI+wpbu8TQ79VdoNOUZ2zpaB6o3rC8ma6rBxCPksqBZTJFQ3FbB KuY/OvIAYmPNhdN3WHsMn9+NH3/cEnJzNbLnVnLPSWnsOd1uGCdc7IQlO2vmHTPo9jeh 20Vei+jMyPZc2W45qlGq0f4V41QguqlEQQh4ukbgu1/tVC9GBYRA9mRTrTa+PxdlJZNw 6gXFcg1CmlXulhpES8pEbwb8TbaFwyzYxoeLvi07vvW6GCHQhQpfaITvC5kWuixoBOf0 aqVA4sEKi6JoXtkdutnp5IYjRDfOFfSwpTWxx7u4A8itCNgfA2Ao0gU0fjieCoVDpFul VUfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=H4wpBeohmCgTa0t3GpKab3BGtsR+5MKwBOnLIofY5fA=; b=qU8LDtaXEHUQDX6zliYiFncv0Z4x/FbheDx7cjf04rcul09+Gi5J8L4jnKyfeU62Xb jyTHcOTEa9ZHL2O4gTTjIOY/aYXG6cWz/kvU0gpRw+U4mikPu1ID8XROzUArPrPZULzN dsZreacJ4JE/507FlsM8TPrxMbf27k14jGRw8ia8mxo1QeLeLuUvTOdI3uCL5piEwmvd WCLjmz2u+9m/3IrHS0M0hizgzvas7oLkeBDoLJfHPgEabBaPUhnQzdz8AVIski03LWiS yjl35ayih8drbPxNsmbBUhbmsmkpt6C/iHMIF4Eev8u4gwHnCMkCcraQYHGPGsPfiZdK Zezg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohhoilTdguyaG+QxS7/q+o9X1Ai9VZVHGA0JwfHKUWMGhpJb6+J qIA6NdkA2GrrbOanq7rCrwh4AjIJy6+FgIGt45EQlQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV603OJNJGULvVfKBgz+Z2jKVWYqZtFTXxcSkhpSGe0spX88Y/J3UujQeOtJCk8cEDzHJJRX8BlYF5piCTta3kII= X-Received: by 2002:a24:1c94:: with SMTP id c142-v6mr5963145itc.75.1538675920518; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:58:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> <1538675265.14264.12.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <1538675265.14264.12.camel@freebsd.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:58:29 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Ian Lepore Cc: FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:58:42 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common > it is. > > > > > > > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks > as > > > > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > > > > > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong > > > here > > > > > > > > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it > was > > > > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had > > > waned > > > > > > > > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in > them > > > > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we > used > > > at > > > > > > > > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology > > > because > > > > > > > > that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). > > > > > > > > Warner > > > 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of Microchip) are > > > still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping software > > > updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build systems with a > > > lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability and > > > compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a BIG reason > > > to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. > > > > > OK. I'd have thought those SBCs would have gone out of production years > > ago.... It's a good datapoint to know that there's multiple users of > > FreeBSD using these parts in products that are still shipping. That's a > > clear and compelling benefit to the project that offsets the efforts that > > it's taken them to keep things current with rl. > > > > In this case, though, rl is off the list, so that hardware should still > be > > good. The only other SBC I was aware of at Timing Solutions was one that > > had an 'ed' chip on it (an ISA realtek part IIRC) that was used in around > > 2001, but in a 'one off' custom setup that I don't think will ever be > > upgraded.... But I have to ask since I know how things worked during my > > time there and systems that 'would never be upgraded' often times were > > later... > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > > > Warner > > I checked all our various kernel configs, and the only one on the list > we still use appears to be rl. > > One driver I was surprised to see was not on the list was vte. So I'll > just preemptively mention that we do use that one too. > I'll assume that you've deployed more than 5 of these systems and that you may someday upgrade them as well? Which of the Vortex86 processors are you using, if you can answer that... Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:03:57 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A2F10B50A5 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:03:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org (outbound1b.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.247.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70AC07C7E8 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 99cde7c4-c7fd-11e8-aed8-99744f00ac98 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound1.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 99cde7c4-c7fd-11e8-aed8-99744f00ac98; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:47:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w94HljgT000365; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1538675265.14264.12.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: Ian Lepore To: Warner Losh Cc: FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:47:45 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:03:57 -0000 On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks.  Brooks as > > > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > > > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong > > here > > > > > > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it was > > > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had > > waned > > > > > > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in them > > > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we used > > at > > > > > > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology > > because > > > > > > that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). > > > > > > Warner > > 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of Microchip) are > > still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping software > > updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build systems with a > > lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability and > > compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a BIG reason > > to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. > > > OK. I'd have thought those SBCs would have gone out of production years > ago.... It's a good datapoint to know that there's multiple users of > FreeBSD using these parts in products that are still shipping. That's a > clear and compelling benefit to the project that offsets the efforts that > it's taken them to keep things current with rl. > > In this case, though, rl is off the list, so that hardware should still be > good. The only other SBC I was aware of at Timing Solutions was one that > had an 'ed' chip on it (an ISA realtek part IIRC) that was used in around > 2001, but in a 'one off' custom setup that I don't think will ever be > upgraded.... But I have to ask since I know how things worked during my > time there and systems that 'would never be upgraded' often times were > later... > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > Warner I checked all our various kernel configs, and the only one on the list we still use appears to be rl. One driver I was surprised to see was not on the list was vte. So I'll just preemptively mention that we do use that one too. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:12:33 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EABB10B5618 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:12:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (net-2-44-121-52.cust.vodafonedsl.it [2.44.121.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3E387CEC8 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:12:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w94ICMBw026975 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:12:30 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> From: Andrea Venturoli Message-ID: <2ba03860-ae6f-c6e3-83d9-533be36456d8@netfence.it> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:12:22 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:12:33 -0000 On 10/4/18 7:38 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. I still have a vr integrated on an old MotherBoard. As I said, if it goes away I'll find another solution; if it stays, the better. I doubt it will survive until late 2023, BTW. bye av. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:18:11 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090D310B58A9; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:18:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 830B47D37E; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:18:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94II1Jw007207 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:18:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: imp@bsdimp.com Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94II1nw095386 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:18:01 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Warner Losh , Ian Lepore References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> Cc: FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , michelle@sorbs.net, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <71975da2-af36-7886-47f2-3f630ee67073@grosbein.net> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:17:54 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:18:11 -0000 05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. vr(4) mentioned in the STAY list or else I would be first yelling as it is still very common in embedded solutions (including integrated ports in my home router). From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:22:10 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5179610B5AFE; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF26F7D811; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:22:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94IM3pw007260 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:22:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: brooks@freebsd.org Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94IM2l4095408 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:22:02 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Brooks Davis , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004162225.GE74146@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:21:56 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181004162225.GE74146@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:22:10 -0000 04.10.2018 23:22, Brooks Davis wrote: > In an effort to save some email, we will be moving rl(4) to the list of > drivers to STAY as it has proved itself to be popular. A few others > appear to be well on their way so keep the reports coming. And ste(4) please, as these are hardly replaceable two- and four-ports cards. In many cases it is impossible to replace them without replacement of whole boxes that have no extra PCI slots. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:23:29 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59D310B5D70 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:23:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x133.google.com (mail-it1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2838B7DA3A for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:23:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x133.google.com with SMTP id c23-v6so14465658itd.5 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:23:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=t6ioxtNxlhWY4VEAbEIW/LTMG/y+05x0eO598I2z1cA=; b=BlLEyhytAIZaK5qJF7c6RzY+uWM313GDMRkBxPKNh/IWyloemT/2pa02i08VtyWPZf ZYkWUZmxjN9M5era56vH+UuI7X+xXSRPVxYXbI6GeHLXfIgXzAV6euEofwGN+jThTKu1 lDdujleKckqWcbrBNHiXSZuzVkRA5x1FkvmfhCaDKZUkj24XelMyH4+17kGTALlmG6hH +bTEMofud6Rul1ALDVQKbQ3Xy6APNSRs5gC9L2LpBIHnf1xmGBPA7cKsnw8KmQDWRfID occLVNaRgQHmxldeHpb5M+K5Tj05XXbA2DQoK+tK1FcDv26abhl0b6UwgoDm10AqClKT hXsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=t6ioxtNxlhWY4VEAbEIW/LTMG/y+05x0eO598I2z1cA=; b=XOVjDaQkU3Dg4u5kTd6H5fIJG+5aiVzyMqzrZeRlvjdqeSabRZmQoMSQWaTCHWVoXs Dc/p17EZ9GK+2Qd4mxHTeBeLKoPzt1sXWoN+c70sdrlQVFdDwmCrvpTzkvVYh7kTdREe zat34mI4F1jHHjVyo9iQ454aK8Sd35jJqwfPojMoMl3ucfAcjslpbQ1Nz+icj65XI+W0 8yZBrWwM4Crvxp2clPzhcWCi8vxcCHbGaKbTd1wduZBUbdybFzPh5YTKZFcktKmhqqia I87VixF1vbwxGwKToT504NAz4fZXPXbq19lhHHExa0toA6+8R8jsjJkaNJG90cStW/m1 Vf6w== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohfACgk/e9kbpXQZZaFywHIeOEY1V6wg2uWq5JH0dVJLP+yZdPr kPBSHZGl8+MHQ+f2wWOPclzEu7D5kDjy6W+Ji8D1cg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62xVOVgoGmSCdFiEp21teQGY5S6ouwG+2WdqPtCG/w9bv+QOJfqSpZEjoaMd/6mlM9X3VrTQ12V5BPt8JhXnC0= X-Received: by 2002:a24:ac5:: with SMTP id 188-v6mr5578356itw.39.1538677408464; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:23:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> <71975da2-af36-7886-47f2-3f630ee67073@grosbein.net> In-Reply-To: <71975da2-af36-7886-47f2-3f630ee67073@grosbein.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:23:17 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Eugene Grosbein Cc: Ian Lepore , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , michelle@sorbs.net, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:23:30 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:18 PM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > 05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > vr(4) mentioned in the STAY list or else I would be first yelling as > it is still very common in embedded solutions (including integrated ports > in my home router). > Sorry, I'd meant to type vx. :) It's for the first generation of 3com cards after the 3C5x9 ones supported by the ep driver. Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:24:57 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4532210B5F02 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:24:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound1a.eu.mailhop.org (outbound1a.eu.mailhop.org [52.58.109.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDD8C7DC24 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:24:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 833b1f58-c800-11e8-af31-edadc92cdc1a X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound1.eu.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 833b1f58-c800-11e8-af31-edadc92cdc1a; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:08:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w94I8ZNZ000419; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:08:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1538676515.14264.15.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: Ian Lepore To: Warner Losh Cc: FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:08:35 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> <1538675265.14264.12.camel@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:24:57 -0000 On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:58 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how > > > > > > > common > > it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to > > > > > > Brooks.  Brooks > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I > > > > > guessed wrong > > > > here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I > > > > > knew it > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's > > > > > popularity had > > > > waned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems > > > > > with rl in > > them > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the > > > > > SBCs we > > used > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old > > > > > technology > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that market segment wanted longevity of spare > > > > > availability...). > > > > > > > > > > Warner > > > > 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of > > > > Microchip) are > > > > still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping > > > > software > > > > updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build > > > > systems with a > > > > lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability > > > > and > > > > compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a > > > > BIG reason > > > > to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. > > > > > > > OK. I'd have thought those SBCs would have gone out of production > > > years > > > ago.... It's a good datapoint to know that there's multiple users > > > of > > > FreeBSD using these parts in products that are still shipping. > > > That's a > > > clear and compelling benefit to the project that offsets the > > > efforts that > > > it's taken them to keep things current with rl. > > > > > > In this case, though, rl is off the list, so that hardware should > > > still > > be > > > > > > good. The only other SBC I was aware of at Timing Solutions was > > > one that > > > had an 'ed' chip on it (an ISA realtek part IIRC) that was used > > > in around > > > 2001, but in a 'one off' custom setup that I don't think will > > > ever be > > > upgraded.... But I have to ask since I know how things worked > > > during my > > > time there and systems that 'would never be upgraded' often times > > > were > > > later... > > > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, > > > sn, smc, > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this > > > thread, and > > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > > > > > Warner > > I checked all our various kernel configs, and the only one on the > > list > > we still use appears to be rl. > > > > One driver I was surprised to see was not on the list was vte. So > > I'll > > just preemptively mention that we do use that one too. > > > I'll assume that you've deployed more than 5 of these systems and > that you > may someday upgrade them as well?  Which of the Vortex86 processors > are you > using, if you can answer that... > > Warner It's a DM&P Vortex86DX on a PCA-6743 board, which you can still buy. 32-bit only, BTW, which is why I hate hearing recent mumblings about discarding 32-bit x86 support in freebsd. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:30:33 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1729710B6548; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:30:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:d12:604::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93B757E2C8; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:30:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94IUP0w007359 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:30:26 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: linimon@lonesome.com Received: from [10.58.0.4] ([10.58.0.4]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94IUPfR095554 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:30:25 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Mark Linimon , Alexey Dokuchaev References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <20181004142644.GA17270@lonesome.com> Cc: freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, Brooks Davis , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 01:30:18 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181004142644.GA17270@lonesome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on hz.grosbein.net X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:30:33 -0000 04.10.2018 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > You can buy used core i5 laptops for around $20 if you shop around. And plus even more for overseas delivery. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:39:00 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1AB10B6C9B for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:39:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alex.mckeever@sbcglobal.net) Received: from sonic301-35.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic301-35.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.184.204]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C401B7F01F for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:38:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alex.mckeever@sbcglobal.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s2048; t=1538678338; bh=LFXf1dV8gRstzj5OjEboG5Epw3Gz/RXXbZuZrW1XQpE=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=iOMaTMWPpmuYAW0lxwu+UxKwLvHsZ1bF8a4PQON3fzdmJzT4g+ecgx+KBbAJEduqMk6o0QPSxpR4kx1YL+l8t7fbbterO/sHqxVMydbITHh6HdmFRUltbhPoXVQYh2KaHTPQ9LHGjDbvmZUCzc6vpAhs/FNihcORAfZ5Mbb+FDAV2uELUgRroWttFeofucXLeAjgtynMwRxq4Ifu9MQKOX0JP0Ajc9JgpMhPWtaCm2ZTD3dEMD7lzw6M1yEvb9qO7xGlxZW+/dNXWWIMGdO6nT6V7HLKLqV7PyC9p5Sk7xlsDZVSMai+kTfMtvV/ZgvenC7lQFSnFmoAG0vk0rktVg== X-YMail-OSG: pHxokjIVM1n6nRGGQLwZ3E7ZaJLwUN9KkKoXOppSqmP2CWZpE3sDziK4TEu.kLQ Kl.kn02zHNGak7gyAaxTX99SdW72snWXn1eWgXPkVhYhsl4bDKjNxaBanf0e2vkQchlZRiof_wUd 8s9aSMY.v1mrboTZud_IAqyPqCRfriiU9FWANjVRilJC0SjaeWT.zsPchGcnXNKbw0Cdo9_MP38h y_g3p98HYycRGPJLqlloAQ0r_oVldeOcomA3gq0fxBx9_tYi_8jse044Q0OLobZqVg7Fgd5hD8AR _ZWLHK4DijCCRSPu0n2pC6BLzwWtZw2niDmJrKKmdymlc0.193n88PZ7Tgdv41SiNJbBjSwxl9iv wDFHp4045Y3o4AnE8gvb8qRKKnQAEoOJYSY3EQIK5G9chF5Z4gro3.2Ppke1QoVcRbLV9TyfahJs iX6nWzqg90ReYQHXa7mPFk1TVO5ZrSvbDCD4iN3C3IkMwo_4XTOuEW5nYFNJvuMxIbYVQt1HSiBJ cVu1HjEJWF4AwJpVj_aEDYP6.vVI55dxl5gpSzkiTvPn9Wy0xkKKk8Z1o3LrbqN7V5VOop5YXyGO 4Rv0kax9o99hANjZ6Ee5WUP34liRlwT6EU1k_ee7VziPyb6qUpuOUYBUYQrxGt6H7WUqze79H0OB 70w5qQF4IESDEUR7Gzhcn58eL8af4n_AecskSmMv00qDtHEZ_AIgM7aFH15ETyWC2Nb.TmCha8XX mEoIRbzyjKmjfCbqPLbGyenqPuZwPKcY59JQU6AZ5lewsc4.j81Q5FljaBHmoPwbye8OiVFdVDVX DeQBrC1h5aFiluf9gbH75lU51BL.neRubf23tl1K6aNgICjwF77AgqneXu4KNCBNoScZvN5xQd_E Olv0NsLyIujaDhVcCadalpKyXlnUG6BEyLy12nQWGTRoj5UnHeqtT5BApKsYSK26I6vup25EXpaS mdOhZrNSdmxxZXKPgcLUVeGP4.k.A5X9yycEEQ_qD3R8mlcnqFQTv2pGCUt4NR6K5IEfznX4URia ZOpC4K1gvh2bZxtHXOf4aMjRrqrfQWV6wol2O2YvmFMQtb8_fEyndMNxcI0sUhcRkozCzrRw- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:38:58 +0000 Received: from 52.125.136.120 (EHLO mail.outlook.com) ([52.125.136.120]) by smtp425.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b4daac6dfa05cb57c50dcbecaae77256; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:18:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:18:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Alex McKeever Sender: Alex McKeever To: Andrea Venturoli , Message-ID: <2154F16E8C50A08C.DDC1CDAA-E129-497E-8ECD-15BB9BC3CBFB@mail.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <2ba03860-ae6f-c6e3-83d9-533be36456d8@netfence.it> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> <2ba03860-ae6f-c6e3-83d9-533be36456d8@netfence.it> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Outlook for iOS and Android Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:39:00 -0000 =20 =20 =20 =20 =09PowerPC is a split between Gigabit and Megabit Ethernet, I hope thos= e drivers aren=E2=80=99t getting removed. =09 =09 =09Get Outlook for iOS =20 =20 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 2:13 PM -0400, "Andrea Venturoli via freebsd-stable"= wrote: On 10/4/18 7:38 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. I still have a vr integrated on an old MotherBoard. As I said, if it goes away I'll find another solution; if it stays, the=20 better. I doubt it will survive until late 2023, BTW. bye =09av. _______________________________________________ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:42:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E38BD10B700C; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:42:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from smtp2.bway.net (smtp2.v6.bway.net [IPv6:2607:d300:1::28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 845557F574; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:42:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from frankentosh.sporklab.com (pool-108-53-194-153.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [108.53.194.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: spork@bway.net) by smtp2.bway.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6626095853; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: Charles Sprickman In-Reply-To: <20181004155355.6C2A51571@spqr.komquats.com> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 14:42:19 -0400 Cc: Rick Macklem , Warner Losh , Alexey Dokuchaev , FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org" , Brooks Davis , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <11826345-1B82-46CB-894C-E567725F8EB8@bway.net> References: <20181004155355.6C2A51571@spqr.komquats.com> To: Cy Schubert X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:42:30 -0000 > On Oct 4, 2018, at 11:52 AM, Cy Schubert = wrote: >=20 > I have rl, fxp, xl, dc, bge (which I have an uncommitted patch for), = nfe, and sk. Not all are scheduled for removal but this is my inventory = for which I can test and am willing to help out with. Add iwn and ath = too. I also have a stack of old stuff (almost certain there=E2=80=99s at = least one vx in there - VORTEX power!). If anyone needs cards, please = contact me and if I have it, I=E2=80=99ll send it your way. Also have = some old video (AGP), sound (ISA), SATA (PCI-X) and other total rando = stuff. One place I see the older cards are in some firewall boxes that are in = SFF boxes. Old PCI 10/100 NICs are more than adequate for backup WAN = purposes (xDSL, cable, etc.) and some of the SFF boxes have one pci-e = plus one pci slot and that=E2=80=99s it. Charles >=20 > --- > Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. > Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. > Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies. >=20 > Cy Schubert > or > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > --- >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Macklem > Sent: 04/10/2018 07:41 > To: Warner Losh; Alexey Dokuchaev > Cc: FreeBSD Net; freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org; Brooks Davis; FreeBSD-STABLE = Mailing List; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers >=20 > Warner Losh wrote: > [lots of stuff snipped] >> That's why that one way to get the driver off the list is to convert = to >> iflib. That greatly reduces the burden by centralizing all the = stupid, >> common things of a driver so that we only have to change one place, = not >> dozens. >=20 > I can probably do this for bfe and fxp, since I have both. > Can someone suggest a good example driver that has already been = converted, > so I can see what needs to be done? >=20 > Again, I don't care if they stay in the current/head tree. >=20 > [more stuff snipped] >=20 > rick >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 18:54:24 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4DA810B7671; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:54:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F95C7FE38; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:54:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE431483F; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:54:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94IsMYw090725 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:54:22 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w94IsMpA090724; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 18:54:22 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Brooks Davis cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers In-reply-to: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <90722.1538679262.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:54:22 +0000 Message-ID: <90723.1538679262@critter.freebsd.dk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 18:54:25 -0000 -------- >FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) Can I open a FCP to rename FCP to FBS (for FreeBSD BikeShed) ? Guys... most if not all of these emails could have been sent to directly Brooks without Cc'ing four mailing lists. Then Brooks could revise his tallies and scores to match informed reality and _then_ we could discuss if the criteria were sound on the list(s). Poul-Henning (singing an almost 20 year old refrain again) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 19:26:51 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 260C610B848B; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:26:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: from oden.vnode.se (oden.vnode.se [45.76.82.188]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "oden.vnode.se", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6BD48109B; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:26:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joel@vnode.se) Received: from ymer.vnode.se (62-20-154-136-no280.tbcn.telia.com [62.20.154.136]) by oden.vnode.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF8A11F62B; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:26:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:26:48 +0200 From: Joel Dahl To: Warner Losh Cc: Eugene Grosbein , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , Ian Lepore , FreeBSD Net , michelle@sorbs.net, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004192648.GA5522@ymer.vnode.se> Mail-Followup-To: Warner Losh , Eugene Grosbein , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , Ian Lepore , FreeBSD Net , michelle@sorbs.net, "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> <71975da2-af36-7886-47f2-3f630ee67073@grosbein.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 19:26:51 -0000 On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 12:23:17PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:18 PM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > 05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. > > > > vr(4) mentioned in the STAY list or else I would be first yelling as > > it is still very common in embedded solutions (including integrated ports > > in my home router). > > > > Sorry, I'd meant to type vx. :) It's for the first generation of 3com cards > after the 3C5x9 ones supported by the ep driver. I mentioned vx. Working fine here: vx0: <3COM 3C590 Etherlink III PCI> port 0x1100-0x111f irq 20 at device 0.0 on pci16 -- Joel From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 19:36:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6519310B8953; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:36:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACD14816A1; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 89Q5gNr1qwyxU89Q6gCRZg; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 13:36:24 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=NPJhBHyg c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=smKx5t2vBNcA:10 a=lRtnlflVAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=nOql8xjiBvw8Set5z38A:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=203WYvXZLHx0qCticVN7:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 021F619BF; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w94Ja45H004525; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id w94Ja4EK004522; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:36:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201810041936.w94Ja4EK004522@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Charles Sprickman cc: Cy Schubert , Alexey Dokuchaev , Rick Macklem , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org" , Warner Losh Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers In-Reply-To: Message from Charles Sprickman via freebsd-fcp of "Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:42:19 -0400." <11826345-1B82-46CB-894C-E567725F8EB8@bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:36:04 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfN7RKI/ywlF4s0JK8Z152uABEeYEXH828NnSGltI10c66vdrs4+xuKLjfjHhnBUFe2odxrlE5ySLWinZwyLPippihdAB8L4uugFN1pn+ux85wPNf3OUl kOnXgCju79BdpELB9XlzbxEUbsmUntNx4c87Z0aIzyio0vLumYlmip1vLVBswQ6TjQCmdXnhFSFBEH7rp0eu/dl24GoENxXQKqF3Cf7QXAPweHdpeBCGkh80 gRpG5o2tvFRPJEmBO7nPMB6nNelLHPsMGQWYrcOOS7HgQQbBH7OASSlUMCWoXCjinpGam54347+B+/Gg0g1dKG7PDkvHPzSTY7cGcQvlQAsFuBI35JEdlKqX kXI1daQpiMggpBSih5dtmzf2gQsvSjLrQNZWdk7PIR8/HcP+4i8= X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 19:36:27 -0000 In message <11826345-1B82-46CB-894C-E567725F8EB8@bway.net>, Charles Sprickman v ia freebsd-fcp writes: > > > > On Oct 4, 2018, at 11:52 AM, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > I have rl, fxp, xl, dc, bge (which I have an uncommitted patch for), nfe, a > nd sk. Not all are scheduled for removal but this is my inventory for which I > can test and am willing to help out with. Add iwn and ath too. > > I also have a stack of old stuff (almost certain there’s at least one vx in > there - VORTEX power!). If anyone needs cards, please contact me and if I h > ave it, I’ll send it your way. Also have some old video (AGP), sound (ISA) > , SATA (PCI-X) and other total rando stuff. > > One place I see the older cards are in some firewall boxes that are in SFF bo > xes. Old PCI 10/100 NICs are more than adequate for backup WAN purposes (xDSL > , cable, etc.) and some of the SFF boxes have one pci-e plus one pci slot and > that’s it. My firewall has most of them. It has 2 sk(4), 2 nfe(4), fxp(4), and xl(4), with xl and fxp connected to my ISP and the others on my internal network. My testbed has sk(4), nfe(4), and dc(4), connected to my DMZ, for ipfilter testing. My main build machine and my current laptop have sk(4), nfe(4), bge(4), while my i386 testbed (an old laptop) has rl(4). I have a spare motherboard (in case something breaks, while I purchase a replacement) with nv(4). All parts, including CPUs, are interchangeable. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 19:54:37 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237D210B90D5; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:54:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=uily=mq=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info) Received: from mail.sermon-archive.info (sermon-archive.info [71.177.216.148]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B065F821A4; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 19:54:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=uily=mq=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info) Received: from [10.0.1.251] (mini [10.0.1.251]) by mail.sermon-archive.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42R3W83DbCz2fjRy; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 12:54:28 -0700 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <15FCEA6B-C017-40C5-8193-8C7AA3F563CC@mail.sermon-archive.info> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> To: Brooks Davis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 19:54:37 -0000 I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see = that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet = as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are = add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive = effort as the machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would = require reconfiguration (an error prone process when you are tired). I also have two production machines with ue devices. There is no = provision for replacing them. They are running an early version of 12 = as 11 doesn't run on those machines. I don't see ue listed in either = category. -- Doug > On 3 October 2018, at 14:05, Brooks Davis wrote: >=20 >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< >=20 > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD = 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. >=20 > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: >=20 > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe >=20 > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: >=20 > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl >=20 > The criteria for exception are: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will = be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform = usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) >=20 > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. >=20 > The full FCP-0101 is included below. >=20 > -- Brooks >=20 > --- > authors: Brooks Davis > state: feedback > --- >=20 > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers >=20 > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them = before > FreeBSD 13. >=20 > ## Problem Statement >=20 > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management = (`ioctl`) > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. >=20 > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. >=20 > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). >=20 > ## Proposed Solution >=20 > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. = This > will entail: > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those = changes > to FreeBSD 12. > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete = deprecated > devices. >=20 > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the = exception > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed = on > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will = be > deemed satisfy the "popular" > requirement. > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform = usable. > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) >=20 > ### Exceptions to removal >=20 > Device | Reason > -------|------------------------------------------------- > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. >=20 > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. >=20 > ### Device to be removed >=20 > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe >=20 > ## Final Disposition >=20 > TBD From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 20:05:03 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99E310B96FF for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from constantine.ingresso.co.uk (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b90:3002:411::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CCA982B30 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 20:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from [82.47.240.30] (helo=foula.drayhouse.twisted.org.uk) by constantine.ingresso.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1g89rm-000E1H-9W for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 20:04:58 +0000 Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <15FCEA6B-C017-40C5-8193-8C7AA3F563CC@mail.sermon-archive.info> From: Pete French Message-ID: <53a7ed98-5c54-ba78-e0a1-239fc991eb9f@ingresso.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:04:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15FCEA6B-C017-40C5-8193-8C7AA3F563CC@mail.sermon-archive.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 20:05:03 -0000 On 04/10/2018 20:54, Doug Hardie wrote: > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfiguration (an error prone process when you are tired). > bge is gigabit (I believe it actually stands for Broadcom Gigabit Ethernet) and thus wont be covered, as its only the 10/100 devices being propsed for removal. I too have a lot of machines with bge onboard, though we only use them on 100 meg ether in the main. -pete. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 21:06:56 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D5E10BAE33; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:06:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from vtr.rulingia.com (vtr.rulingia.com [IPv6:2001:19f0:5801:ebe:5400:1ff:fe53:30fd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vtr.rulingia.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2514E8510F; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 21:06:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) Received: from server.rulingia.com (ppp59-167-167-3.static.internode.on.net [59.167.167.3]) by vtr.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94L6ZWA015005 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:46 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@rulingia.com) X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.rulingia.com (localhost.rulingia.com [127.0.0.1]) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w94L6TSr097472 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:29 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter@server.rulingia.com) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.rulingia.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w94L6TSU097471; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:29 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 07:06:28 +1000 From: Peter Jeremy To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181004210628.GC21091@server.rulingia.com> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> X-PGP-Key: http://www.rulingia.com/keys/peter.pgp User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.0 (2018-05-17) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 21:06:56 -0000 --A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2018-Oct-04 08:44:11 +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: >Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly >is the burden here? As various others have stated, this isn't true. All the code in FreeBSD has an ongoing maintenance cost and is an impediment to adding new features. There is no point in spending valuable developer effort to update drivers and test them with unusual/obsolete hardware unless those drivers are going to actually be used. >Another question: why the fuck FreeBSD likes to kill >non-broken, low-volatile and perfectly working stuff? That language is uncalled for. >We offer probably >the best NIC driver support on the block, yet you're proposing to shrink >one of the few areas where we shine. WTF?! Supporting NICs that no-one uses doesn't benefit anyone. No-one is talking about removing NICs that are in active use. >ae(4) was used in Asus EeePC 701/900 which are still popular among hackers. Those netbooks are more than a decade old now and I don't expect many are still functional. Will people still expect to use them with FreeBSD 13 in 5 years time? >As it can be seen this list tends to cover nearly all 100 cards, yet no >one (pardon me if I missed those) asks for 10. So how about making this >proposal cover only 10 cards, What is the purpose in keeping unused FastEthernet cards in the tree? >if you can't resist the itch to remove >something from the tree? Again, that language is uncalled for. --=20 Peter Jeremy --A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE7rKYbDBnHnTmXCJ+FqWXoOSiCzQFAlu2gNRfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEVF QjI5ODZDMzA2NzFFNzRFNjVDMjI3RTE2QTU5N0EwRTRBMjBCMzQACgkQFqWXoOSi CzRLMQ/7BHZCxWvC61I7bvv2AtbR4AfOz+Ei84NDcdKie4wNSdTn8w9JHqyEdolj cL49a1chwzS25dJIqpcj0wXM9j+1v0ed8+UYl+JYMVqD7qVdsyKIi66ceg8nnH1i flO/cyBrFfSAs2k1HZd1+BqJg2phvM0utK5MxMrYNqFlFRpfQXu0HnZweyBV7Of0 Nwk4ooKhFTgy+dgi9QVSNmfodD0VOh6J35ZXiSQAsDgtDohv9oliFfbf5FdlzW9t PbjPwhyTbultFQ4rNrJwM05fR2tTFIfMm84P2W5nZS/MMeTKsDjDMad2ePlwL3TX mU2K3f0HN1hfA6LTKiRl9fcFqzKSRQszE9RQ1hjW/rkk2JS2KkpMY2biScONAOmh YhT6kUMQORS5BI3YZxYnHCgGNNVltmXGCgFQBasBaf1Mb456vo2tb3lCEGRaUvi9 Uiv6TkCOWsZHSeMuAVTlWHyaMOnflLH+cu890Ox5FwTACLy6oA4zwSb/fDvOLmn6 CV+R0VEiEze0sUNPIhPPqpWBc5PwuFMnjCyleFeQuMigCOb0JHV6BljJ9XpqQY43 dYxB1HyE+8vPUgqvJBadoh7iVXHOQ74T2XacrU571WY5T/TdEBGaza1vaYKic/td gF8wDjOk8iVpfkvAqTh/ea9Mj6Pn7Gb7I6UAwqW4wD85YAShtxo= =qZrA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --A6N2fC+uXW/VQSAv-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 06:46:26 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9555710C4252; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4015673E91; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-it1-f181.google.com (mail-it1-f181.google.com [209.85.166.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: mmacy) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C96A1B6E7; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 06:46:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-it1-f181.google.com with SMTP id l191-v6so1293181ita.4; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:46:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfog/I8q7MMDmP/QKC7QON+8R1OH1NUFlQ5+Am/NzaiisNeMBX0z2 Xz3gfkq4c4X4vmonyyIv0R7dc1CIWEtPHOcpLzk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60jJ4+VEPPE1ck+30bKDOZbqHHcZp9pkvsuDAukdUfXoS4Dnn0vWlcoMA6oTta57bdCeN2PTPRRp3ZiYlstZO8= X-Received: by 2002:a24:1cc7:: with SMTP id c190-v6mr7249138itc.30.1538721985377; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 23:46:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <15FCEA6B-C017-40C5-8193-8C7AA3F563CC@mail.sermon-archive.info> In-Reply-To: <15FCEA6B-C017-40C5-8193-8C7AA3F563CC@mail.sermon-archive.info> From: Matthew Macy Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 23:46:13 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: bc979@lafn.org Cc: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 06:46:26 -0000 On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:55 PM Doug Hardie wrote: > > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see = that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as= it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on = boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as the = machines are about a 4 hour drive from here and would require reconfigurati= on (an error prone process when you are tired). > To this day servers ship with bge. My Talos 2 with 2x22x4 P9s has dual onboard bge. -M > I also have two production machines with ue devices. There is no provisi= on for replacing them. They are running an early version of 12 as 11 doesn= 't run on those machines. I don't see ue listed in either category. > > -- Doug > > > On 3 October 2018, at 14:05, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > > > The current list of drivers that will STAY in the tree is: > > > > dc, ffec, fxpl, hme, le, sis, vr, xl > > > > The criteria for exception are: > > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will b= e > > deemed satisfy the "popular" > > requirement. > > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usab= le. > > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > > > Please reply to this message with nominations to the exception list. > > > > The full FCP-0101 is included below. > > > > -- Brooks > > > > --- > > authors: Brooks Davis > > state: feedback > > --- > > > > # FCP 101: Deprecation and removal of 10/100 Ethernet drivers > > > > Deprecate most 10 and 10/100Mbps Ethernet drivers and remove them befor= e > > FreeBSD 13. > > > > ## Problem Statement > > > > Each network driver creates drag for the project as we attempt to > > improve the network stack or provide new features such as expanded > > 32-bit compatibility. For example, the author has edited every single > > NIC driver more than once in the past year to update management (`ioctl= `) > > interfaces. We could improve this situation by converting drivers to > > iflib, but each additional driver takes work. > > > > 10 and 100 megabit Ethernet drivers are largely irrelevant today > > and we have a significant number of them in the tree. The ones that > > are no longer used and/or are not known to be working need to be > > removed due to the significant ongoing 'tax' on new development. > > > > For at least a decade, most systems (including small embedded > > systems) have shipped with gigabit Ethernet devices and virtual > > machines commonly emulate popular gigabit devices. We wish to > > retain support for popular physical and virtual devices while > > removing support for uncommon ones. With a few exceptions these > > drivers are unlikely to be used by our user base by the time FreeBSD > > 12 is obsolete (approximately 2024). > > > > ## Proposed Solution > > > > We propose to deprecate devices which are not sufficiently popular. Th= is > > will entail: > > - (October 2018) Send this list to freebsd-net and freebsd-stable. > > - (Before FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - October 2018) Update the manpages and > > attach routines for each device to be removed and merge those changes > > to FreeBSD 12. > > - (One month after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - January 2018) Remind > > freebsd-net and freebsd-stable users of pending deletion. > > - (Two months after FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE - February 2019) Delete deprec= ated > > devices. > > > > Through out this process, solicit feedback on additions to the exceptio= n > > list and update this document as required. For a device to be placed o= n > > the exception list the device must meet one of the following criteria: > > - Popular in applications where it is likely to be deployed beyond the > > support lifetime of FreeBSD 12 (late 2023). > > - 5 reports of uses in the wild on machines running FreeBSD 12 will b= e > > deemed satisfy the "popular" > > requirement. > > - Required to make a well supported embedded or emulation platform usab= le. > > - Ported to use iflib (reducing future maintenance cost.) > > > > ### Exceptions to removal > > > > Device | Reason > > -------|------------------------------------------------- > > ffec | Onboard Ethernet for Vybrid arm7 boards > > fxp | Popular device long recommended by the project. > > dc | Popular device for CardBus card. > > hme | Built in interface on many supported sparc64 platforms. > > le | Emulated by QEMU, alternatives don't yet work for mips64. > > sis | Soekris Engineering net45xx, net48xx, lan1621, and lan1641. > > vr | Soekris Engineering net5501, some Asus motherboards. > > xl | Popular device for CardBus card. > > > > Note: USB devices have been excluded from consideration in this round. > > > > ### Device to be removed > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > > > ## Final Disposition > > > > TBD > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 12:14:49 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1B6010AA0E1 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 12:14:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from constantine.ingresso.co.uk (unknown [IPv6:2a02:b90:3002:411::3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A5637E293 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 12:14:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from petefrench@ingresso.co.uk) Received: from [2a02:b90:3002:411::6] (helo=dilbert.ingresso.co.uk) by constantine.ingresso.co.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1g8P0J-0000nE-O7; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 12:14:47 +0000 Received: from petefrench by dilbert.ingresso.co.uk with local (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1g8P0J-0000oT-Ln; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 13:14:47 +0100 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, petefrench@ingresso.co.uk Subject: Re: Latest STABLE locks up on boot for me In-Reply-To: Message-Id: From: Pete French Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 13:14:47 +0100 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 12:14:50 -0000 > Been testing various kernels since I posted this, currently at r338931 > which runs fine. Will continue on Friday as am not inf ront of the > machine tomorrow. Just to uodate this, I have tried the update from this morning, r339193, and tthat works fine. I noticed some more ZFS stuff went in, so maybe I simply caught it mid-change. Ah well, boots now, and that makes me happy! cheers, -pete. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 14:46:25 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C6F10ADA11; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 14:46:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "land.berklix.org", Issuer "land.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2034E83015; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 14:46:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p2E52C221.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.82.194.33]) (authenticated bits=0) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w95Drmv9034754 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 13:53:52 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id w95DrhMR076193; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:53:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w95DrVkC072450; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:53:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201810051353.w95DrVkC072450@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Brooks Davis cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.eu BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.eu/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 03 Oct 2018 21:05:16 -0000." <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 15:53:31 +0200 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 14:46:25 -0000 > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe I have many hosts using ed & rl, several using ep, & at least one using xe or ex. That's just from memory, maybe other drivers in peril. Unless the functionality of drivers is sub-sumed in to other drivers, stripping all those drivers would motivate some to never upgrade again, or dump FreeBSD for a more conservative BSD, or fork FreeBSD etc. Stripping dead code helps developers play easier, but stripping live code is offensive. Some who periodicaly propose code demolitions forget that many users of FreeBSD don't subscribe lists, except maybe announce, as too busy, maintaining FreeBSD on networks ... until their nets don't work. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Brexit: 3,700,000 stolen votes in 1st referendum inc. 700,000 from Brits in EU Campaign lies & criminal funding, economy & pound down: New referendum needed. http://exitbrexit.uk From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 15:05:16 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E770F10AE2E9; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:05:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@fubar.geek.nz) Received: from fry.fubar.geek.nz (fry.fubar.geek.nz [139.59.165.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1B683C67; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:05:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@fubar.geek.nz) Received: from [IPv6:2001:630:212:2a8:fd98:5c4c:514a:52ac] (unknown [IPv6:2001:630:212:2a8:fd98:5c4c:514a:52ac]) by fry.fubar.geek.nz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D3B84EC9D; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:04:38 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: Andrew Turner In-Reply-To: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 16:04:36 +0100 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> To: Brooks Davis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 15:05:16 -0000 > On 3 Oct 2018, at 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote: >=20 >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< >=20 > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD = 12 > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. >=20 > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: >=20 > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe smc is found in the Arm models (simulators) [1]. I=E2=80=99ve seen it in = the Foundation and Architecture Envelope Models. I assume it=E2=80=99s = also in the other models, but don=E2=80=99t have a license for them to = check. Andrew [1] = https://developer.arm.com/products/system-design/fixed-virtual-platforms From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 15:13:35 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5519810AE8FE for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:13:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3EAD842A4 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:13:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id z16-v6so10937647iol.6 for ; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 08:13:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2YXOf4VyPauBAfRAGu6+u4Z/ZAW74+nHlykIdp+IS4w=; b=bIhCsEh0fGUDbJBl7/EbA2uDFB0vGFVglRMVCaVYBp9UUqdOit2iJg8OSkshv7qe70 R1o5O56IxrLsYOGlCE+FK7RH3itEgvA8tvXd/ZrdBRiAcCaVrpZ9nOWO59zaTl34xYVs UXUZfsZ9RS/B7BCM834EPIxKewvHtnQh+T3kczm7Guatjr0GcS2Ph8QZg9yBY3+u4BtH gE+HloSwfXhhmpTLwg/ND8cRQnyNCjWDByVGddf2dViwCuezEGSsIs5B96/M61AvthDf BEI3+tppIK9a9f2Fe13Pt+K7CbBkeprMD3Q3fsAYs8ZY19RuY+z0Fg49rFHl97N4BX5P TZvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2YXOf4VyPauBAfRAGu6+u4Z/ZAW74+nHlykIdp+IS4w=; b=Og0qy98KHZJvNjq5AO732HXw7aVPjt4XuXVzz//3ANYGgWbb/JktmfGvgJAFn2+xzS IAOaUKMPV3wlYZYs9nS+p9EoBh8nxK8wyExLikXfzo93bWO/AzFgeagM4A3m4DNS3VPU gtI63TSHWM4lPbtNmXDn1aHz6IUUywROXgka65bPioCqBkfi01RgADshXibgIDcMf9yy uh1ZJPyNwZm0SKUZuEdiJk2qx3Tt+9+vU06tjizuX9USdm/liytGTGOvO8BrpheNeKRa CzyDnekzjIcSY11W42boxBlsjyqe3JbwDNmn2YPFxyB0MewmYUJFk0yu+mVtEQFbSFB+ 0LFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfogEpPleO2keZIUIKpCtK/B6UIBWgTz/fRFLzjYOSPCwm6bL2974 rJrdAvOT2BFPdmxWcK3iS2zTzTE/G/UE5Xh6FJHopQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61U2HQUUqOp0CJJkJfbz8A1HS0npwHJcowFlpxqMvNBlgHeJR11FrZclRinFXicG4KbOsAbrXV6+Y3wtZUo4SM= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:d004:: with SMTP id x4-v6mr7869274ioa.299.1538752413806; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 08:13:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <201810051353.w95DrVkC072450@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201810051353.w95DrVkC072450@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 09:13:22 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Brooks Davis , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 15:13:35 -0000 On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:46 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > I have many hosts using ed & rl, several using ep, & at least one > using xe or ex. That's just from memory, maybe other drivers in peril. > Later in the thread rl was removed from the list. What systems are you running ed, ex and/or xe on? So far I've heard no reports of people using the latter two in about a decade. Unless the functionality of drivers is sub-sumed in to other drivers, > stripping all those drivers would motivate some to never upgrade > again, or dump FreeBSD for a more conservative BSD, or fork FreeBSD etc. > You could also create a port/pkg for them and assume the burden of maintenance yourself. > Stripping dead code helps developers play easier, but stripping > live code is offensive. Some who periodicaly propose code demolitions > forget that many users of FreeBSD don't subscribe lists, except > maybe announce, as too busy, maintaining FreeBSD on networks ... > until their nets don't work. > I think in this case there will be plenty of warning. They will upgrade to 12, one assumes, and see the deprecation message in their new kernel logs. There's going to be about a 6 month window between when this is announced and when it happens to collect evidence that removal is unwarranted, to show they are still in use by enough people to justify their on-going (yes non-zero) cost to keep in the tree. There's over 2 years before they will be removed from a released version: also plenty of time to build a case that they are in use and/or upgrade to different, supported NICs. If you look at the rest of the thread, you'll see several people have made compelling cases and/or provided evidence of continued use into the future to keep the drivers in the tree. Evidence will save them, but harsh words will not. I think expecting people to blindly maintain code on the off chance someone is still using is offensive as well. We must weigh the costs of continuing with the benefits those cost provide. We don't have good sources of data for what's still in use and what's not, so we have to rely on these periodic calls for data to ensure we aren't wasting our time on hardware that's no longer used. Warner > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, > Munich > Brexit: 3,700,000 stolen votes in 1st referendum inc. 700,000 from Brits > in EU > Campaign lies & criminal funding, economy & pound down: New referendum > needed. > http://exitbrexit.uk > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fcp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fcp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 15:18:27 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CC510AEC07; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:18:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:300:2185:a:dead:bad:faff]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E126484519; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:18:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w95FIPCq014811; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 16:18:25 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id w95FIP3r014802; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 16:18:25 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <201810051518.w95FIP3r014802@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 16:18:22 +0100 Organization: Dyslexic Fish Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <20181004120626.GA39489@elch.exwg.net> In-Reply-To: <20181004120626.GA39489@elch.exwg.net> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]); Fri, 05 Oct 2018 16:18:25 +0100 (BST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 15:18:27 -0000 Remember, it's not simply deprecating cards less than 1Gig. I have a card that is 10/100 only, but works fine with the gigabit alc driver: alc0: port 0x2000-0x207f mem 0xe0500000-0xe053ffff irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci1 cheers, jamie From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 15:19:15 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A7CB10AECEE for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:19:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CA6084698 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:19:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id y10-v6so10925732ioa.10 for ; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 08:19:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=snscEp4dM3BJgbDdGyBYAuQVJDz/Wzzg3BsRrMpgQMI=; b=XXN0Khz0cPFy1I/z/NEYiyI1A7EG/tPB4Te1Q6uHtxfuJXmNesqsUMquUDTpZSR2NF vvtwdTJwdD416DyTj3XLf6noq9WcoIBXKzUyZ3efcYq9WeZfBd86bozlBv+OOhup05DF JC7qx9DEhRMAh+nzYtqFNwxoRugtNxqirKCWqzf5hRRIBXNjdWY7aKtxmmsVzC/MEX4Y S57iIWeWLf1bbSUg2WLnO2J0EKI6JN+csFshYiXxEkWxlIIaXFkP/9KpFOPzL3vxsAFz Zgc2bW2WmOjVXu9AdzGHOsmHCZLaetIcTx60xs9VNDF5fICPCGd9loDgG0jyad3ilX85 2zgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=snscEp4dM3BJgbDdGyBYAuQVJDz/Wzzg3BsRrMpgQMI=; b=Hy+TBM5yiNl35tc47qP7jQC9TsunYD7xKHgTdM+Vvu4os+T1G48KX2+1SxD9Dj2hAf F1M0yNKk4l4XEZU3dUo2omNkDOg3o5PD8flbTCQHhpG6gmhKHFvW7Gcjj+DiRTrasFr5 WvW5oW8kxH4AiMQfy56Qgpm1HpLZEeL7Db1uS3DCoIMZkthHnjK5W4Pb25k6oJV4mm0m Z/zy9StvJxuxgHij+CyoF0PL4tiPydA2udwuIlSSDvY5PlVZNYsa+/PCnGwyJOcmX/R0 KW4Ea5GIBIrb6z5IBIX4c2IG2IAiwm+9xxF/+ERmnfaIL/7B3grDMR7VJZUCpZNyNorB hPCw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiPynCAs0EWVY9vVKX4DHcJkkPLpYImuBGAtWX4Aze6jL1rISUe QUcCmPweuW+9Vht7R3/yrHQOFOFxhC6z6Mw6/s6kKg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV61jXpOSGyLgpR1pvuPa3nO2BFWPZ9cQ2ssSESrzF2xhZ+bNoH0fVPUc9YBrKNj6R32qJKruLeLeOkY744Eufm8= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:e715:: with SMTP id b21-v6mr8539518ioh.37.1538752753680; Fri, 05 Oct 2018 08:19:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 09:19:02 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Andrew Turner Cc: Brooks Davis , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 15:19:15 -0000 On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 9:05 AM Andrew Turner wrote: > > > On 3 Oct 2018, at 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote: > > > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > smc is found in the Arm models (simulators) [1]. I=E2=80=99ve seen it in = the > Foundation and Architecture Envelope Models. I assume it=E2=80=99s also i= n the > other models, but don=E2=80=99t have a license for them to check. > Do we currently support those simulators? I see it is in the VERSATILEPB simulator that QEMU provides. Does that still work? Warner From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 15:21:36 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2DE610AF20E; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:21:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@fubar.geek.nz) Received: from fry.fubar.geek.nz (fry.fubar.geek.nz [139.59.165.16]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C8984BAE; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:21:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrew@fubar.geek.nz) Received: from [IPv6:2001:630:212:2a8:fd98:5c4c:514a:52ac] (unknown [IPv6:2001:630:212:2a8:fd98:5c4c:514a:52ac]) by fry.fubar.geek.nz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 96CE84E76A; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 15:21:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Andrew Turner Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 16:21:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: Brooks Davis , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" To: Warner Losh References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 15:21:37 -0000 > On 5 Oct 2018, at 16:19, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 9:05 AM Andrew Turner > wrote: >=20 > > On 3 Oct 2018, at 22:05, Brooks Davis > wrote: > >=20 > >>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > >=20 > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md = ) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD = 12 > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining = and > > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are = solictiting > > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > >=20 > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > >=20 > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe >=20 > smc is found in the Arm models (simulators) [1]. I=E2=80=99ve seen it = in the Foundation and Architecture Envelope Models. I assume it=E2=80=99s = also in the other models, but don=E2=80=99t have a license for them to = check. >=20 > Do we currently support those simulators? I see it is in the = VERSATILEPB simulator that QEMU provides. Does that still work? Yes, I boot FreeBSD/arm64 on them in a local Jenkins instance. Andrew From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 20:38:16 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B0A10B5F47; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 20:38:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andreast-list@fgznet.ch) Received: from smtp.fgznet.ch (smtp.fgznet.ch [IPv6:2001:4060:1:1001::14:52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 082948FECF; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 20:38:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andreast-list@fgznet.ch) Received: from [192.168.225.14] (dhclient-91-190-10-49.flashcable.ch [91.190.10.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgznet.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 007C7C018E; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:38:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_FreeBSD_12_PowerPC_won=e2=80=99t_boot_at_all.?= To: Alex McKeever , FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Stable References: <187374964.4382554.1538652870884.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <187374964.4382554.1538652870884@mail.yahoo.com> From: Andreas Tobler Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:38:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <187374964.4382554.1538652870884@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: de-CH Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: Obelix Submit on 127.0.1.1 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 20:38:16 -0000 On 04.10.18 13:34, Alex McKeever wrote: > Subject says it all, that and it inverts the boot selector when selected. Tested it on my eMac G4 1.25 GHz (Retail). Last version of FreeBSD that works for me is 11.1, as 11.2 doesn’t boot all the way (hangs on cryptosoft0) What image did you try? ALPHA8 should boot, but is not stable yet. If there will be an APLHA9, it should boot and should be stable, at least it is here. Andreas From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 20:57:15 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503C910B68E6; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 20:57:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "land.berklix.org", Issuer "land.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D202B70C81; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 20:57:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p2E52C221.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.82.194.33]) (authenticated bits=0) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w95Kv2Xq047363 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Oct 2018 20:57:07 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id w95KuuPN078893; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:56:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id w95KucIo012200; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:56:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201810052056.w95KucIo012200@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Warner Losh cc: Brooks Davis , FreeBSD Net , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.eu BSD Unix Linux Consultants, Munich Germany User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.eu/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.eu/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Fri, 05 Oct 2018 09:13:22 -0600." Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 22:56:38 +0200 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 20:57:15 -0000 Thanks for the reply warner, Warner Losh wrote: > On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 8:46 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > >>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< > > > > > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > > and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and > > > improving the network stack. We have discussed this within the > > > core team and intend to move forward as proposed. We are solictiting > > > feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. > > > > > > The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: > > > > > > ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, > > > ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe > > > > I have many hosts using ed & rl, several using ep, & at least one > > using xe or ex. That's just from memory, maybe other drivers in peril. > > > > Later in the thread rl was removed from the list. That's a partial relief. > What systems are you running ed, ex and/or xe on? So far I've heard no > reports of people using the latter two in about a decade. I can look more later, but for a quick partial reply: I keep an incomplete ad hoc occasionaly/rarely updated list of logs, useful for odd questions such as this, so I can run quick checks cd ~/tech/log/dmesg ; grep ed0: * */* | grep port # ... vi dual film flip lapn loft slim wind cd ~/tech/log/ifconfig ; grep ed0: * */* dual film flip lapl loft park rain snow wall wind cd ~/tech/log/dmesg ; grep xe0: * */* lapd lapo cd ~/tech/log/ifconfig ; grep xe0: * */* nothing cd ~/tech/log/dmesg ; grep ex0: * */* nothing cd ~/tech/log/ifconfig ; grep ex0: * */* nothing Hosts above are custom PCs no model numbers, but these are standard laptops: xe: lapd: Digital HiNote Ultra2000 http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/digital/ ed: lapl: Toshiba Libretto 70CT http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/toshiba/libretto/ ed: lapn: Dell Latitude XPi P133ST http://berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops/dell_latitude_xpi_p133st xe: lapo: Novatech (MiTAC) 8355 http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/hardware/laptops/novatech-8355/ ( PS ed0 is also used by Hewlett Packard Network ScanJet 5 a multi sheet feeder with FreeBSD built inside, however that's stuck on a seriously old release, still a great device though - http://berklix.com/scanjet/ ) PS My master kernel config from pre 4.11 to current: http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/src/jhs/sys/amd64/conf/HOLZ So quick summary: ex: I dont seem to use ed: I use on many of my hosts, not just those above, & I have some spare to stick in to any PCI or ISA box I work on if needed. ed & xe I also have on pcmcia & cardbus, so they move around between laptops. > Unless the functionality of drivers is sub-sumed in to other drivers, > > stripping all those drivers would motivate some to never upgrade > > again, or dump FreeBSD for a more conservative BSD, or fork FreeBSD etc. > > > > You could also create a port/pkg for them and assume the burden of > maintenance yourself. Didn't know drivers could be farmed out to ports/, sounds like a recipe for breakage sooner or later. > > Stripping dead code helps developers play easier, but stripping > > live code is offensive. Some who periodicaly propose code demolitions > > forget that many users of FreeBSD don't subscribe lists, except > > maybe announce, as too busy, maintaining FreeBSD on networks ... > > until their nets don't work. > > > > I think in this case there will be plenty of warning. They will upgrade to > 12, one assumes, and see the deprecation message in their new kernel logs. > There's going to be about a 6 month window between when this is announced > and when it happens to collect evidence that removal is unwarranted, to > show they are still in use by enough people to justify their on-going (yes > non-zero) cost to keep in the tree. There's over 2 years before they will > be removed from a released version: also plenty of time to build a case > that they are in use and/or upgrade to different, supported NICs. If you > look at the rest of the thread, you'll see several people have made > compelling cases and/or provided evidence of continued use into the future > to keep the drivers in the tree. Evidence will save them, but harsh words > will not. > > I think expecting people to blindly maintain code on the off chance someone > is still using is offensive as well. We must weigh the costs of continuing > with the benefits those cost provide. We don't have good sources of data > for what's still in use and what's not, so we have to rely on these > periodic calls for data to ensure we aren't wasting our time on hardware > that's no longer used. > > Warner Yes, needs careful balance. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Brexit: 3,700,000 stolen votes in 1st referendum inc. 700,000 from Brits in EU Campaign lies & criminal funding, economy & pound down: New referendum needed. http://exitbrexit.uk From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Oct 5 21:53:16 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F4B10B7EE2; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:53:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE0897307F; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:53:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id ECD2E3C475F; Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:53:08 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:53:08 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: Jamie Landeg-Jones Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers Message-ID: <20181005215308.GA93171@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <20181004120626.GA39489@elch.exwg.net> <201810051518.w95FIP3r014802@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201810051518.w95FIP3r014802@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2018 21:53:16 -0000 --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 04:18:22PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote: > Remember, it's not simply deprecating cards less than 1Gig. >=20 > I have a card that is 10/100 only, but works fine with the gigabit alc dr= iver: >=20 > alc0: port 0x2000-0x207f mem 0xe05000= 00-0xe053ffff irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci1 There are no plans to touch such drivers. -- Brooks --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJbt91EAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAiiIH/0snI3OvAyCkC4phGfs7EQV1 8Zpn6NUb7HPnkUAMYCVfAh+sXmn3Mc7d7jMQoXDHgWAKS6ly2o6U07tpZUDf1lj8 i5jHlzikKveqpwZDBjWqy/wpAVJsFTec7jhTBuY22d+MnRX7GhcOljq4GoPSujpV mZC8N6+DRLOpFio7NjEPh4YcOxMmj6osO4CblR2owWI9AKqpROTDZ8EAHtCseSpe 3zXEJYBkXEL0qE52oapcbXd7pdi2Fq9Cr1QYb+hsqJXzanh0N4T9Q7O2mFF57CBp qaX06ogTSZMAXbQRgsHXM96MUN6Y2cpTpjCqgEZiR1iR9OOcJKmFOcMcfBKurWQ= =Lu2i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lrZ03NoBR/3+SXJZ-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sat Oct 6 03:06:04 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE3010C1E4D; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:06:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:300:2185:a:dead:bad:faff]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A050C7D489; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:06:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w96361xF084586; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 04:06:01 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id w96360U3084585; Sat, 6 Oct 2018 04:06:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <201810060306.w96360U3084585@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 04:05:59 +0100 Organization: Dyslexic Fish To: jamie@catflap.org, brooks@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, brooks@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <20181004120626.GA39489@elch.exwg.net> <201810051518.w95FIP3r014802@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <20181005215308.GA93171@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <20181005215308.GA93171@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [104.207.135.49]); Sat, 06 Oct 2018 04:06:02 +0100 (BST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2018 03:06:04 -0000 Brooks Davis wrote: > On Fri, Oct 05, 2018 at 04:18:22PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote: > > Remember, it's not simply deprecating cards less than 1Gig. > > > > I have a card that is 10/100 only, but works fine with the gigabit alc driver: > > > > alc0: port 0x2000-0x207f mem 0xe0500000-0xe053ffff irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci1 > > There are no plans to touch such drivers. Yep, sorry I wasn't clear. That's what I meant - I was responding to someone who was worried that the support was being dropped for 100Mbps cards. cheers, Jamie