From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Oct 22 15:07:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3165A15D050 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 15:07:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46yH1h1wcZz3Nqk for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 15:07:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id q70so8998773qke.12 for ; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 08:07:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dhhW7hbZevKH+n0sCBVey7YucwrjoJcbKv3u1VXRLm8=; b=PtAA3keXgwa1eeLoFpJw19imJb8+mqJMHk4Gc12828TE1xIIj7wVVJGLPRpaIaH8h4 DwbwpGvZgTWOCKS+u7qxrEhA9ELM2Qas6MjTAb+DzPemjrk8nfrJozz7k0bKmjja5YRl OflUkt/W+mADi650xfxLQvqEDmOHbZOvKje1mbduJvBpSXrGZxt7ibGqT2GqBYFtlK8j eCLkvAQ8fpAwLL3W0Dzp/fgNerBcFc2HAHvBL24T/XwIH6NiwFi8EUa/OmX0un5ZKx8o Z5On6vb/MrYl7wwVzQeSLBe8b00zPX6XPRN0T5Rv4Nj+mXnESunRFN7QLtdZQqtPlzy+ uHzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dhhW7hbZevKH+n0sCBVey7YucwrjoJcbKv3u1VXRLm8=; b=BKI5zRwuZrFmsL244zFBpIHxsE//gP2olAQ35dqTsMWiG44bDjT33GY6yEB/ocARfT koDF8bhklFcn84GeVHdqYhVsMu7J7GcONd01w+D5C3DdSgbq8e6/HYk3J/TCEsbNRd4F pi0yfBcbA8K5KgJTShRSHnwZnAKgfKHzi+Frp16zSXeRAMyIQVYcQvfaPPe8Xbo3wE78 2iOvyHPiAJ/hV62DAEWLChrXJDxXu9ii6oIGWnVmGFPGxmaSqV7GErvymRMtKJRTGoMQ P5OF5pd8xegnI/hQGqAxzQci/e7RtN6z3EaGZzF3ZLAgXE0Gghm5DDlQRUnCdmI4kkPY kB3A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXZBU8he71NLdWJc9HKMeRTlkKJVWu/6bTsggEwlEUhGyDuI5Pi iosMOG3BPEfJFyzAC2a3va5W3zf3N1wTi4DThpW3IA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxknpC4/OyhSjJr3Yydtx4U5AEKcst4kfBMqf3yeiMsgx2CoSs9nzGQiibtIKQJzbncuvkt1yGiv8d0WjDM4oM= X-Received: by 2002:a37:de0c:: with SMTP id h12mr3349292qkj.495.1571756870657; Tue, 22 Oct 2019 08:07:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1818196815.3441463.1570703722086.JavaMail.yahoo@jws700103.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <1818196815.3441463.1570703722086.JavaMail.yahoo@jws700103.mail.ssk.yahoo.co.jp> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 09:07:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: firm date: armv5 support removal scheduled for 2019-12-31 To: Mori Hiroki Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-arm@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46yH1h1wcZz3Nqk X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=PtAA3keX; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::732) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.80 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.co.jp]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.80)[ip: (-9.44), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.43), asn: 15169(-2.07), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 15:07:53 -0000 On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 4:35 AM Mori Hiroki wrote: > Hi > > I have very angry. Because of this. > > One is Maverl soc is not right performance on FreeBSD now. > > Maverl FreeBSD is 10-30 times slow from Linux. > > I think armv5t support is not complete on FreeBSD. > > You say armv5t pmap have bug. But my RT1310(armv5t) work well half of year. > > I try ldd on armv5t one month ago. That is support for armv4 because of > > that don't know armv4t instruction by default. > Hi Mori-san, I get your love of the old hardware. However, we can't support the full range of old hardware at this time. We don't have enough people actively working on it. We have dozens of people complaining that they can't install on old hardware that we used to support because things have decayed. I think it's really awesome you've gotten the RT1310 working well. I've never been able to get mine going, despite spending several days on it over the last year or two. I've been unable to get my *Plug boards working well. They may work fine to boot, but will often panic if I have to fsck because that device doesn't support unaligned I/O. We have trouble enough with the more modern stuff... Trying to also support this really old stuff just drains resources from the project. Warner > Hiroki Mori > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Warner Losh > > To: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" ; " > freebsd-arm@freebsd.org" > > Cc: > > Date: 2019/10/10, Thu 06:40 > > Subject: firm date: armv5 support removal scheduled for 2019-12-31 > > > >G reetings, > > > > There's been much talk of removing armv5 support from FreeBSD in FreeBSD > > 13. This talk has been ongoing since before 12 was branched among the key > > arm developers. The compromise for the FreeBSD 12 was to have one final > > FreeBSD armv5 release for a few straggling users that needed (or think > they > > needed) this release and it would be removed before FreeBSD 13. > > > > The reason to remove this is due to the increased burden armv5 has > > presented on the system. We have a separate pmap for v5 which has known > or > > suspected bugs relating to unaligned I/O. No developers have the armv5 > > boards in service anymore. They have ceased being relevant to FreeBSD's > > success with the plethera of armv7 boards that are on the market. No new > > armv5 boards have been made in a long time. The FreeBSD project hasn't > > produce armv5 binaries for 12.x at all (the binaries produced earlier > could > > not have possibly booted, though the userland binaries worked if you > could > > otherwise install the system). Finally, llvm's lld doesn't support > > armv5. > > It would ease integration if we didn't have to worry about a fallback for > > armv5. It would be one fewer dependency on the old binutils toolchain in > > the tree. > > > > So, taking all these things together, the time has come to schedule > removal > > of armv5 support from FreeBSD. The end of the year seems like a good date > > to select for planning this removal, getting whatever notices should be > put > > into place and warning people about the next release in the most formal > way > > possible (more informal warnings have been going on for over a year, > > starting with armv4 support removal in 12). > > > > I'm posting this now to gather feedback and, if necessary, create a > > checklist of things to do before removal. > > > > Warner > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-arm@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arm-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > >