From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Nov 26 09:17:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C55DB1AF96B for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:17:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47MdbW67Wsz4Zw7 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:17:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id xAQ9HeDI001915; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 01:17:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id xAQ9Hcf1001914; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 01:17:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201911260917.xAQ9Hcf1001914@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Killing Giant for 13 In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 01:17:38 -0800 (PST) CC: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47MdbW67Wsz4Zw7 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net has no SPF policy when checking 69.59.192.140) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.47)[0.465,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.38)[0.378,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.14), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.07), asn: 13868(0.03), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:17:44 -0000 > I'd like to kill Giant in 13 and schedule a firm removal date. > > The issues are (a) old drivers that aren't MP safe (b) some console / ATKBD > interactions (c) newbus and (d) a few stays that haven't been characterized. > > (a) should be deleted or updated before the deadline > (b) should be fixed by $SOMEONE[tm] > (c) there's some work underway to refine the locking protocols to allow one > to not have Giant held (there's real questions about how effective it is > when things sleep or contend) > (d) I'm researching. > > Would there be support for setting a firm deadline for Giant removal of > around June 2020? This would be months ahead of a speculative 13.0 timeline > (Earliest would be December 2020, latest would be maybe October 2021, the > exact details aren't super relevant for a June target date). > > This is a preliminary inquiry to get a feel for support for this option and > to gather additional issues and requirements. Comments? I see one reply to this, yet am seeing commits killing drivers, that at least on surface appear to be not so old, and possibly relevant. Though I have no objectionion to the removal of GIANT, I do have objection to what appears to be execuction before research and discussion, especially as I believe the item would of be under (d) above, as I do not consider a driver that came into the tree at 10.0 "OLD". -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org