From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jul 28 04:27:52 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558DAA1FFA; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 04:27:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd44.google.com (mail-io1-xd44.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26705851EA; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 04:27:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd44.google.com with SMTP id j6so37821481ioa.5; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:27:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Hw6c5zLqM/7GPKS0kVtsLAE3gqe6TqisLDpjZJDv0M0=; b=ekKC4hMhi1XiCR+RPqPdWbd3o/7rMQcEcsTbefbwXbrufaNuDoWXn6ucx5BNHohz0U UkYcIAxOQrYbgJ4a6HvAPLYFER63qfIgwCSIGjqnRNN3TMI0IBUp8UKxVoEerp4NOX7e iAntb1/nhrK2U61848Ev/YaGp5twXOUReZ4qXgkSlKFamEbrgvb4I0P25PYDwokhZkmx 8z873f4junMufTNNzZ/HLAgEjmqpVOZ0+XviKQg8g08siSalKrCVu12T3E1YWKZDQA7v TR4oMlNACIFOWrLBPyKYEC5gLTOurIrfPvpxfAaOjf5TTXL+Kl8tkgY7/m00E6NvlSow VyOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Hw6c5zLqM/7GPKS0kVtsLAE3gqe6TqisLDpjZJDv0M0=; b=R71GFOR/B6iObl8TMc0OhrNkuwrXNpvj/FzZ2kIBzL3PDnY7giFnSkGryY8DNZ+nyL CT7J0qhlq55Pi+sziWSRFRSDmpEC06Vm4VEylVhhhRPQrGHzDWS/9jeVcTCVNED6t/5/ EVkdO5eRHPA+wOoZJnhr/2ODeegRDxWRoqPI70NJuvb07IXbb7nYzwkOkRGLCIi9RHIT KIDVzWZKzbja2naR+NeYGV6VKp/d6Kxss5Lzoi989cS8n0O8Jp1gVXpeYLATyGENgp87 2mP/xl8eCxeM4y4Qgi5WSHv1CMIpAJClzGqgqOerZ3VhgnNKc1Buy5YQadmlLeOwhB41 jdjg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXwE9k9+vsBc6kw+w2VYOtP+HAXeim6IVilMiI0mKZbtyOzSq5f +/f55QU1WJV3K17LTKYrw0SWnW52qm2jdIVzEPA1u4jKk3U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx8slPbsZwiDp5ouO8Qcxl+CIQI3eIlATumpj6bhxfAAicdx+UILgeqq09hDKgTgVx/Zp1dEXBulOuoZahJ1NE= X-Received: by 2002:a02:7a5c:: with SMTP id z28mr25987835jad.40.1564288069986; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:27:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:27:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: remote X client not using local drm-kmod To: FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 26705851EA X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ekKC4hMh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.34 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.913,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; IP_SCORE(-0.70)[ip: (2.07), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.09), asn: 15169(-2.44), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.714,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 04:27:52 -0000 I just removed the nvidia card from machine (and deleted x11/nvidia-driver) and have successfully installed drm-kmod and have everything working on it (even GLX stuff) *IF* the X client is started locally but if I try to run a remote client on my desktop it is slow as hell (as far I can it is not using drm-kmod). For example with my nvidia-driver set up I could do this and it would work at 95% the speed of doing it "locally": user% xhost + user% sudo su - otherUser otherUser% setenv DISPLAY :0.0 otherUser% firefox But if I do the same thing with drm-kmod (see kldstat below for details) it runs at perhaps 1-5% of the speed of running it as "user" when run as "otherUser". Id Refs Address Size Name 1 53 0xffffffff80200000 20a5c10 kernel 2 1 0xffffffff822a7000 381130 zfs.ko 3 2 0xffffffff82629000 a380 opensolaris.ko 4 1 0xffffffff82634000 b530 autofs.ko 5 1 0xffffffff82821000 15d839 radeonkms.ko 6 2 0xffffffff8297f000 66734 drm.ko 7 5 0xffffffff829e6000 edc8 linuxkpi.ko 8 4 0xffffffff829f5000 114b8 linuxkpi_gplv2.ko 9 2 0xffffffff82a07000 6b8 debugfs.ko 10 1 0xffffffff82a08000 e3b0 ttm.ko 11 1 0xffffffff82a17000 12f8 radeon_SUMO_pfp_bin.ko 12 1 0xffffffff82a19000 16f8 radeon_SUMO_me_bin.ko 13 1 0xffffffff82a1b000 d78 radeon_SUMO_rlc_bin.ko 14 1 0xffffffff82a1c000 32290 radeon_SUMO_uvd_bin.ko 15 1 0xffffffff82a4f000 2328 ums.ko 16 1 0xffffffff82a52000 1780 uhid.ko 17 1 0xffffffff82a54000 1820 fdescfs.ko FreeBSD lilith 11.2-RELEASE-p10 FreeBSD 11.2-RELEASE-p10 #1 r349114: Sun Jun 16 12:44:01 EDT 2019 root@lilith:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 01:29:23 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22828BA049 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 01:29:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gita@ideaspcb.com) Received: from smail172.cn4e.com (umail120.cn4e.com [117.27.141.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AB50889C0 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 01:28:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gita@ideaspcb.com) X-Bordeaux-Score: 550 X-Spam-Flag: NO Received: from kvc0enw1rdogax4([113.87.131.166]) by smail172.cn4e.com(7.3.0.15a) with ESMTP id C5906640006.169.1564363062.177050; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:17:42 +0800 (CST) X-BQId: C5906640006.169.1564363062.177050.1 X-Bordeaux-Type: AUTHSMTP X-35BMId: C5906640006.169.1564363062.177050.1 X-Bordeaux-LOG: SA: TSMF, 3-550-1-83886336,3-550-1-83886336,3-550-1-83886336 eJzt2UFOwkAUBmA2ulHvMEtdOOlQoEqUUEqBBuiQUpWYuBjKgE2gxU6b9LDewBu4so1dmCYYNrR E35c0L2ne4t/9M+1J5VvDaL38nBo1TV2zESEyvlEwkQkmjUYF/BPve+yIDXPXRKlix6tx7PgbpE /H9gR1/GDBWRS35fqlgmUsYVJnVwePDAAo2Gk28/2hD0YUDR81STefiNWlfXVWKy0kKNznHjt0e PAYAIAjdpbNfH+oD/YAjWjfMEuLBkr0kTxVrGDplx01Cl+5F7oOC13fQyJyHC7EMloXFRIAUKrz bOb7Y6waI9Sz6LiJ7lZuyNrugjOxdebpd4oWmhrP+j2RbhW4lPxN6f2DJX2wDXfvVCVJkgtLBAA 4NhfZzPeHpU1sZNOkPZYB53OxuH6LuEjPmaLdS950pl3sB6tWacHBQaX9YWlNfWbv3qFDxOOQBx 5bo/RXyNyPC8sHACjfFxGgXPA= X-Bordeaux-Detail: eJxzsrIKjgwOcfW1snIGI0MDYysrEwsrK1MDLidMSRMrKyNDIDZAkfWAyBoCZQyNgXqNUaWByBG sx8AIKGdlpZFXmpOjiV2FMcgWmBIAzComfQ== X-Bordeaux-Action-libantispam.so: X-Bordeaux-Action-libspamsa.so: X-Bordeaux-Action-libclamav.so: X-Bordeaux-Action-libsmtpext.so: X-AbuseCollector: NO Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:17:40 +0800 From: "gita@ideaspcb.com" To: freebsd-questions Subject: PCBA & Assembly Turnkey X-Priority: 3 X-GUID: 0848C753-B903-4349-8025-50E7F6C5AD26 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.9.115[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2019072909174049295593@ideaspcb.com> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6AB50889C0 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[178.141.27.117.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[country: CN(0.02)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 01:29:23 -0000 RGVhciBQdXJjaGFzaW5nIG1hbmFnZXIsDQoNCkdyZWV0aW5nIHRvIHlvdSENCg0KSWRlYXMgcGNi IGlzIGEgbWFudWZhY3R1cmVyIG9uIHBjYiBtYW51ZmFjdHVyaW5nIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgUENCQShw Y2IgYXNzZW1ibGllcykgd2l0aCBjb21wb25lbnRzLg0KICANCk91ciBtYWluIHNlcnZpY2VzIGlz IGJlbG93aW5nKG5vIE1PUSBydWxlKToNClBDQiBBc3NlbWJseSBzZXJ2aWNlKGluY2x1ZGluZyBT dGVuY2lsIGJ1aWxkaW5nICYgQ29tcG9uZW50cyBzb3VyY2luZykNClJpZ2lkIEJvYXJkKDEgbGF5 ZXJ+ODggbGF5ZXJzKTogRlI0L1JvZ2VycyBtYXRlcmlhbCAmIE1peC1tYXRlcmlhbCBib2FyZHMs IEFsdW1pbnVtIHBjYiwgSERJIGJvYXJkcy4uLg0KRmxleGlibGUgcGNiICYgRkZDICAgDQpSaWdp ZC1GbGV4aWJsZSBwY2IgIA0KQ3VzdG9tIFBDQg0KUGxhc3RpYyBtb2xkcw0KVGhlIG1haW4gZmVh dHVyZXMgdGhhdCB5b3UgY2FuIG9ic2VydmUgZnJvbSBJZGVhc3BjYiBhcmU6DQpFeGNlbGxlbnQg c2FsZXMgc2VydmljZXMNCkV4Y2VsbGVudCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5nIG9mIGN1c3RvbWVyJ3MgbmVl ZHMNCkV4Y2VsbGVudCBxdWlja25lc3MgdG8gYW5zd2VyIGFuZCB0byBxdW90ZQ0KRXhjZWxsZW50 IHF1aWNrbmVzcyB0byBwcm91ZGNlIHJlcXVlc3RlZCBwYXJ0cw0KSW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgcHJpY2UN Cg0KRG8geW91IGhhdmUgcGNiL3BjYmEgcHJvamVjdCBpbiBoYW5kID8gDQpJZiB5ZXMsIHBsZWFz ZSBraW5kbHkgc2VuZCBtZSB0aGUgR0VSQkVSIGZpbGVzLCBJIHdpbGwgcXVvdGUgeW91IHF1aWNr bHkuIA0KTG9vayBmb3J3YXJkIHRvIGhlYXJpbmcgZnJvbSB5b3UsIHRoYW5rIHlvdSENCg0KDQoN CkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNCkdpdGENCg0KU2hlbnpoZW4gSWRlYXMgUENCIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kgTGlt aXRlZA0KVGVsOiArODYtNzU1LTI3MjA1OTAyICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KTW9iaWxlOiAr ODYtMTgyNzM0Njk2NTQgDQo= From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 05:13:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC40BD76C for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 05:13:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kh@panix.com) Received: from mailbackend.panix.com (mailbackend.panix.com [166.84.1.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55AA38E7CD for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 05:13:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kh@panix.com) Received: from snow.home (pool-72-74-69-77.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [72.74.69.77]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45xnsK1p7yz1VdS for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 01:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 01:13:33 -0400 From: Kurt Hackenberg To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Hang on boot Message-ID: <20190729051333.GA1899@snow.home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 55AA38E7CD X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kh@panix.com designates 166.84.1.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kh@panix.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.25 / 15.00]; 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I'm trying to run FreeBSD 12.0 on a new AMD desktop PC, and it's not working. I've read the relevant parts of the handbook and release notes, installed the package drm-kmod-g20190710, and added kld_list="/boot/modules/amdgpu.ko" to rc.conf. Booting ends up in a silent hang: screen goes dark, keyboard and mouse get no response, the system doesn't answer pings. The only way out is to pull the plug. Without loading that module, booting succeeds, but /dev/dri doesn't exist and the X server refuses to run. I've read the wiki page on graphics, and saw the statement that the AMD drivers conflict with the EFI frame buffer. That doesn't apply; I boot FreeBSD the "legacy" way, not through UEFI. Have I missed something? The computer is an HP Pavilion Desktop 590-p0025, with an AMD Ryzen 3 2200G processor and Radeon Vega 8 Graphics. The boot messages say it's CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G with Radeon Vega Graphics (3493.52-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin="AuthenticAMD" Id=0x810f10 Family=0x17 Model=0x11 Stepping=0 plus a long list of features. In /boot/modules, I see files whose names include amdgpu_vega10, vega12, vega20, and vegam, but not vega8. Could that be the problem? How do I debug this? Preferably without pulling the plug over and over. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 09:31:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46F16A3F80 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:31:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from contact@evilham.com) Received: from yggdrasil.evilham.com (yggdrasil.evilham.com [46.19.33.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63AAC704CC for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:31:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from contact@evilham.com) Received: from yggdrasil.evilham.com (unknown [IPv6:2a0a:e5c1:121:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by yggdrasil.evilham.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45xvZ76w76z3wvk for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:30:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Evilham To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hang on boot References: <20190729051333.GA1899@snow.home> In-reply-to: <20190729051333.GA1899@snow.home> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:30:52 +0200 Message-ID: <72db458b-f2f4-4ee9-873c-a82f4e90a165@yggdrasil.evilham.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 63AAC704CC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=evilham.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of contact@evilham.com designates 46.19.33.155 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=contact@evilham.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.34 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.75)[asn: 196752(-3.77), country: NL(0.01)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[yggdrasil.evilham.com,mail.evilham.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[evilham.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.79)[-0.794,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:196752, ipnet:46.19.32.0/21, country:NL]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:31:04 -0000 Hello, On dl., jul. 29 2019, Kurt Hackenberg wrote: > Hello people, > > So here's a question. I'm trying to run FreeBSD 12.0 on a new > AMD > desktop PC, and it's not working. I've read the relevant parts > of the > handbook and release notes, installed the package > drm-kmod-g20190710, > and added > > kld_list="/boot/modules/amdgpu.ko" > > to rc.conf. Booting ends up in a silent hang: screen goes dark, > keyboard and mouse get no response, the system doesn't answer > pings. > The only way out is to pull the plug. > > Without loading that module, booting succeeds, but /dev/dri > doesn't > exist and the X server refuses to run. I was hit by a very similar thing, though more complex because AMD Ryzen laptop. For reference, this applied to a ThinkPad A485, but I think the X driver bits apply to you. First of all, AMZ Ryzen laptops are affected by bug #231760, which keeps them from booting normally, I had gotten around it by setting hw.pci.mcfg=0 in the boot loader; this is not relevant to you, but it is in the global setting. https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=231760 At that point, I had the laptop's bios at version 1.16, and was experiencing random crashes, which I thought were related to WireGuard. drm-kmod from 12-RELEASE worked just fine. While researching the random crashes, someone suggested that I triple check the bios version, which I did to 1.24. This, and only this, broke drm-kmod and left it in the same state you mention, except, after I booted single-user mode and removed drm-kmod, X started, but only on the laptop's screen (no external one, because no graphics card detected). For reference, this is the bug (needs update and closing): https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=231760 Since, at this point I had 13-CURRENT compiled and running with a patch for 231760, I discovered that there is drm-devel-kmod in there, which at time of this email is version 5.0.g20190722, as opposed to drm-kmod's which is 4.16.g20190722. Installing that and rebooting resulted in a fully functional X with external screens. So, my guess is that your card would work with drm-kmod 5.0, in fact, when I mentioned on the current ML that my system had fully functional X in 12-RELEASE, people were a bit amazed by it, it looks like support for AMD Ryzen cards has improved a lot between the versions. https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2019-July/073862.html Basically: try to get drm-kmod 5.0 in your system, maybe that'd help. You'd do that by compiling from source or checking the ports tree to find how drm-devel-kmod is built in 13-CURRENT and maybe that'd build for 12-RELEASE, someone else might be more useful here. If you do manage and it solves your issue, documenting it might be useful for those that come afterwards with similar hardware and similar problems wanting to run 12-RELEASE. -- Evilham From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 11:40:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B198A6B6A for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:40:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.184.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4892580BAF for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:40:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: 17bcNxwVM1mz53ZUuZQNoN8IPL.8d9h9n5vXT9qbmamQEhF51iljItTxYlDpEh9 g6Mmy5MCPDBnqh9uiOOB.rO4qq3RWyj0LtgCbgYFYrn5xEDXBKCHbJGG0MFrPbMQukBUaPdKQ72H gVfMwBZbOf5w9kG.Sz4pSJCtrmGg5W.za1EqnLYbRVNcgzrieafwtFKRDNInrKOZQca5FOVe_D66 r8qR77MPlgDnITq3jkiuqRmvRpfc90I32c2qP.IDMH4ar1r4vf7YqgjUknrOoJ_8UEEa9q4uN6ZB CBLSHmM3JF6nlBDuNrWud.9o7.9cOE6MHHkHeOfRgnifUJr87U_qT4XfMc6wGd6oFbbAtMIQFxJO a9s1KF6W5.VoB_vpUOUI0tAd2PKgHZ8KTncsRvQ4fPkNjY5EuTM6vmadnRbOxqgjBnh.z3_x7z2F oU4kfzlByaVS4jIam44PhWdXjq3nfldyknjXvZSB05gvLEj9g35CUwK0EX48a_QcKx5gzXGdr0v7 7JtSnHjWMRDvpsvin8PwnG5w9v2VSHwGWZrNgvgnZL3A4BoCB_RwoNULcIZpcpd1ovpZ5XmMa3_T JOv3q8df.g3D7klsD0WUcAghdnbpc2zVwN3btCJ9G9WFRUcJYMModk9hs2_DQC8_AmlAL.lkzD_X nshNvTQq0ARO3peGM8lvLXbDQ2bEemVgkFgrUNpPIilSpaVzRAKxcD0r.CKxpa5Gj0YAY.QeRtUy RFJoonJobsmk1IgJ6XWsmZI0S2eEMZsME7WRLL0clrnbYon0Q9ZUomGdsoenzdPtngYKn5jfMrbH yIR3oQwN0I0YmIn8kbXZf_VWawWVkvV6WNsp_xIl2OayyLUC0r_u6bdC2RxCh.BE845G.jASqPBo 7Tuq0L_XpucDvv9q9VL6satZgwyHimZDhBtqdwM1yumGwJy0ipsQdMAUfgXuXztaxe1UBDPvfaIt PzfoWy1e_Sed.wrBwLcxRabmm0Vikf2ZpjbvU2FYA28lsvFYnJBGVbPWSFxsRkjHbnBRoeXay125 .GACeWjVvqVocDfrIa3Qw4dM1jXR6dxr5t5KbwYlgdK5_Q2O3zIMzHpS.XEqtgPigGZ76sYTKP.b Q9w2PFAGzXBxS_RmgPI4K95yEum_lU8g3vCUvx1Blx1hLdJhc_f6ry827iFalGPPexv.Ki6pvhyt 6h1D1HhIwRnsT5xXkGx94QHZEV3fUdTcp1pTmCfrl_F3X0FBJcRIL6nyjW3cF4svNx1j2McRYOhr EdohSSRshTC3Ky2nm6W.dNJxfslDDwLMpa2OMDd4de5lDNQVhBw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:40:19 +0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:40:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, RW Message-ID: <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13991 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4892580BAF X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.29 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.972,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.994,0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[146.184.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(1.33)[ip: (4.43), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.27), asn: 36646(1.02), country: US(-0.05)]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:40:22 -0000 =20 On Tuesday, July 23, 2019, 6:54:23 PM EDT, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: =20 =20 On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:44:35 +0200 Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:18:48 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > >Since there is only a $15 (at most) between 450/600 W (roughly the > >same price range) and 850 W I mightiest well do overkill=C2=A0=20 >=20 > Regarding the PSU I'm in favour of overkill, too, if fundable. I'm > surprised about the minimal price differences. I would take a look at > the Ampere available on the secondary side. >=20 > While I disagree with Paul Pathiakis regarding the "overkill", he has > good a good point: "efficiency" The reason for avoiding overpowered PSUs is not the difference in price, it's that they are optimized for different loads.=C2=A0=20 ## and here I was thinking I was going to have to explain this... :D P. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 12:30:21 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A05CA8445; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:30:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idefix@fechner.net) Received: from anny.lostinspace.de (anny.lostinspace.de [195.30.95.33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92C3282382; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:30:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idefix@fechner.net) Received: from server.idefix.lan (unknown [IPv6:2a01:5c0:11:25d1:21b:21ff:fe7b:3468]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: idefix@fechner.net) by anny.lostinspace.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BDBDC91434; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:30:11 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fechner.net; s=default; t=1564403411; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=teyQqSo17D6JA/FNndT865ifrmCMsvsky7im33fNwuU=; b=OkIJ5S2BSy1Nht95w7UmJA3UurKHgJzzZ1+hBUsGwooemp4JbvoABe8c2YQqyi7eFpS/fW 6gdHnehrHazTbKSA9FynRiYMY+KDYivMCHfJ5qjVrtksKhu9e2LfQh4a/NIn9mRno2Ggma X3ocPjtZwAMWEHTarYbBFnkYfaAOavs= Received: from webmail.fechner.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by server.idefix.lan (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 056A329E6DD; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:30:11 +0200 (CEST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:30:10 +0200 From: Matthias Fechner To: Paul Pathiakis Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, RW , owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? In-Reply-To: <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> X-Sender: idefix@fechner.net User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.9 ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fechner.net; s=default; t=1564403411; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=teyQqSo17D6JA/FNndT865ifrmCMsvsky7im33fNwuU=; b=np97G609Z04el0ausfh70FGJ3gjau0ckjDDv+Tqv99KOMpoLc7o2JBFaxl/mUjY7OrNG+p lGvH1+yLVnAxDCTfEOQgyY7dy1ep+9d53gzn4vMTk+wyJMgNRBoPwrD6vounQlPrSuIwYE 7MN5IF8f0Fz3hy1nIA7h5Huh2LSQMZ8= ARC-Seal: i=1; s=default; d=fechner.net; t=1564403411; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=d7N4aG3hxehmkVbitvSGOUwmtKzzy2H/cC2FNz3gLEuczq9muPMN7mh17X9I+pFDoJX2Su PaQf19xNqlLIWsIDxOxcghgAqbxkFEtgRULZnHaCNkgC4RqRMICivxy62ac2JTohKRC1Zd my326O35WhJEbFGsGmS09imASj5avCA= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; ORIGINATING; auth=pass smtp.auth=idefix@fechner.net smtp.mailfrom=idefix@fechner.net X-Rspamd-Server: anny.lostinspace.de X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 92C3282382 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fechner.net header.s=default header.b=OkIJ5S2B; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fechner.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of idefix@fechner.net designates 195.30.95.33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=idefix@fechner.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.60 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fechner.net:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[33.95.30.195.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.6.2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fechner.net,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.fechner.net]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.97)[ip: (-9.88), ipnet: 195.30.0.0/16(-4.94), asn: 5539(-0.05), country: DE(-0.01)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[i=1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5539, ipnet:195.30.0.0/16, country:DE]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fechner.net:s=default]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[fechner.net.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.6.2]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.918,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RBL_COMPOSITE_RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED_DWL_DNSWL_MED(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 12:30:21 -0000 Am 29.07.2019 13:40, schrieb Paul Pathiakis via freebsd-questions: > > The reason for avoiding overpowered PSUs is not the difference in > price, it's that they are optimized for different loads.  > ## and here I was thinking I was going to have to explain this... :D > P. true and the best efficiency you reach if you use 50% of the PSU. If you under or over 50% you will lose efficiency. If you would like to have the best efficiency make sure, you buy a PSU that has the double power you require and make sure you buy a 80 plus gold or higher. I keep it for yourself the make a calculation how much power you waste compared to the higher price you have to pay. Here you can find a quick overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus -- Gruß Matthias From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 19:01:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15EA4B2A22 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:01:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A842E8F953 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:01:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: QsYvJ6wVM1kqLxlY65ekjsSu4ZKjjqpeUsvb4Gos.9fbk046D.lnM61iyi0g4xC H5pWYkGCnMT3kZbhcPwJ10AP2w7PsEJKIvp8s8rS4QCudBiUPwKzW3tVAfp7D_.VnRpvqDBdjgiJ tQQy1CVgGe3CcNDmvvOAZwAs4y3qiUqg1NsDvVucI4uJAYFFiiCWG6gIFRGY.v2KKEaKMLZURano 37KKQuYzEsYtJ44WAyPN75fxqsBPOeUXBgPuH_Fc4OMigytyLwvQIkg3BMuTBXISzHtMJAl7vzj. 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Message-ID: <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> In-Reply-To: <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A842E8F953 X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.03 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yaho odns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(1.59)[ip: (3.98), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.26), asn: 34010(1.79), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.945,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.996,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[206.176.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:01:41 -0000 On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:03 +0000 (UTC), Paul Pathiakis wrote: >Take that and add 33%. On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:31:26 +0200, I wrote: >I would be careful when calculating real power consumption. What makes >you think that adding 33% is a good value? On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:30:10 +0200, Matthias Fechner wrote: >If you under or over 50% you will lose efficiency. Again, oversized is way better, since calculating a realistic power consumption is virtually impossible and it's also virtually impossible to know the optimal workload of a power supply. Actually you only could use specifications provided by the vendors. In the end you get a rough guess on the values. What are 33% or 50% of rough estimated values? The result is mere nonsense. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 20:47:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFBC3B5631 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:47:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C08B6C597 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:47:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chardon.frederic@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id s22so45049048qkj.12 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:47:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=OTh6GWkLw/ZwQxDPddkEq4VzRUjtKrIPGRvGJo2OcGM=; b=soASGZDCC2lVwWMk8hZb3yd70oqbiO6pSQmtDwFnOgLGZT+4Wnob9iYxKSCYaIcjIQ 1imhwtgLRLAF21+1PNYgHsAbdDbWnHOwegnotvC1ozJRJeXUZJQtSIWfmdolWCInJ4uU 22HkjJcYv0kr7O7fxXyaQnN2M/UEtq2/ObovZTpChxg+38gwuzApoV95LAx+FaOyut41 l4uqvtgib67EIpVoWrkKMOCcQ0HK6M/szvcu44Gi49Y2aycO/lQOGL2bVEgeWVe7H54R 5UkbWV613LCM/VUh5o4D/qzroGdOOFBc9RLeN7Nla3KjmKc1q+tQ4cGKh0N6C10U2DIB +BqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=OTh6GWkLw/ZwQxDPddkEq4VzRUjtKrIPGRvGJo2OcGM=; b=Sw5eS4k+OO2m76EXn2wvN4cSjlhBPYx9EOj/q7EEWInRQ2EsIwYuA0YwY62CRXNFo/ iNLrX7yI22q4J8am8upmxfOQR/58QJrBuGm8SAB7dBpxFUO66uwS7XxeClhlEqLEfl53 wz+iwjGkWPvy/N8O5Fi1KzvjwStWBsVRnVrTYoX7pz5ZK3+/NI1eXwZXST7hxZ6M8Ys2 VBEgn4ZgXyumpvRpCdg6XLByxS+lDCCYdS35uIWV/G5JHxlQ8zVB/qmCt07kosoLR7Og jSFNBedWrR3r8e8mEQ8MEOXkwFsoB/zYGVfrS0iKKf6ywdNm1Q6vfFeaoWNRGVUglJxZ d8hw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX5WA3OJF4qp77SQFJ2EWLbWIdPyY622hbd23z8Lyh2s+/1Y8I6 f6hSBhJwBTYyFXHCnB0BX+w2sIWJssPgljMH+LQZ+BFF9ow= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyAd6sUf90nW/Au9PKAVzNvYnwk9lWoumpqFiuU1v84UROeqQ128/yM0taOEhWUlFySMfC94sA5FpyRmPwdiYk= X-Received: by 2002:a37:2747:: with SMTP id n68mr68964331qkn.447.1564433222955; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:47:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Frederic Chardon Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 22:46:51 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: No webcam in chrome (works in firefox) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1C08B6C597 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=soASGZDC; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chardonfrederic@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::736 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chardonfrederic@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.99 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-3.00)[ip: (-9.39), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.10), asn: 15169(-2.45), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[6.3.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:47:04 -0000 Hi I can't make chrome to recognize my webcam. webcamd is running, pwcview, firefox or mpv all works Ports are at revision 507476 and base at 350255 (amd64). There is no camera listed in chrome://media-internals and typing "navigator.mediaDevices.getUserMedia({video:true});" in the javascript console throw a NotFoundError. ktrace shows that open() succeed 83513 chrome CALL openat(AT_FDCWD,0x81812d101,0) 83513 chrome NAMI "/dev/video0" 83513 chrome RET openat 159/0x9f 83513 chrome CALL ioctl(0x9f,0x40685600,0x7fffde9f2aa8) 83513 chrome RET ioctl 0 83513 chrome CALL close(0x9f) 83513 chrome RET close 0 So this is rather not a permission issue (and anyway, the other programs all work) Is it a known issue? Or am I missing something? Thanks From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 21:58:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F51CB7763 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:58:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::5]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB5FB6F8CB for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:58:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564437485; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From:X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From: Subject:Sender; bh=LSkJ/AMF+XDKRE1Y6Zxu2geS52mOuzC9gql+crhqUeU=; b=er4Pqnt6+z/Ycqw9GIlNkY/FhrOr+3Bhsz8EY7maFv15TrVDCgW2nuvzUBQUYGp40/ FSPTtAmTuNqFy3B576I6Uw00XNwB+3lHX2a+BrTJSEUuHB+4hU5rY4VcX4Av4B7hhAbj wdypSSWOaYvUrpFk6wuO3x6dDlKmOLUwgHp/+UWpHExoNISaGOAGkMoUQgu/DD2lc36v 2azjXQ7mAK+4eJY8Pw5pPZo7vg3mklj5KeXlc4stFcTYUqDWkXjl1P6aaqClxXc8qryx 3yHZDzNrzDLYJY6WNNEg5iv2A4oCnqm1Lj0wCIoGHwv3UT4avyEBqyqpiMd3LUsWYrjX /qTA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv6TLw4Hk8 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate) for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 23:58:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hsDee-0000Mm-8h for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 23:58:04 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hsDee-0001Nj-44 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 23:58:04 +0200 From: hw To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: for how long can I expect the update servers to be slow? Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 23:57:55 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <875znkcxlo.fsf@toy.adminart.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AB5FB6F8CB X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=er4Pqnt6 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.34 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[smtpin.rzone.de]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.52)[-0.518,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.957,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.76)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.34), asn: 6724(-0.44), country: DE(-0.01)]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:58:09 -0000 Hi, are the update servers still overwhelmed, or is there something else wrong? root@cdebsd:~ # pkg install xrdp emacs-nox cde [...] Number of packages to be installed: 116 The process will require 2 GiB more space. 335 MiB to be downloaded. Proceed with this action? [y/N]: y [1/116] Fetching xrdp-0.9.10_2,1.txz: 100% 404 KiB 46.0kB/s 00:09 [2/116] Fetching emacs-nox-26.2,3.txz: 15% 6 MiB 8.2kB/s 15:03 ETA [0] 0:pkg* "cdebsd.adminart.net" 23:46 29-Jul-19 About 20 minutes after starting this, the emacs-nox package has 90% arrived ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 29 22:29:40 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9EBB830A for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 22:29:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antranigv@freebsd.am) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44AC3809D3 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 22:29:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antranigv@freebsd.am) Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id c2so60324001wrm.8 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 15:29:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd-am.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=JBh+cvjCE5qbDGMWxywEO71e9ExUcTdeVqjFQvscvo8=; b=IDBxUzQQWkmCvQzLBAvNGnftHvZ38nj3PpXx1IHGFO18yLNWq4iPu+hCqVNLu/PKbe u6HrBg174tkI+6la/jTxaVSvCoMnCD0EDVviQljnuUAsTeIp1lip3c0FY22uynItmWlI lW1hKfMWzixJGUC5Gv0pz5+j2u78RicEjqsaGFmY2OtF5dQdPPeYGVzGLrS+YxEWAk8f C5cgtzFuxaSUBB5KF/oOLqsO1l+iIes7eeu8y3xm/pBhb7UZDLpFlCgQiw6DGKLVCBKu T5GI5tiY2YUqIbPTKZamLLecSurYD8SafsyIPHmmJtdjv8VjaSTfg69PYobU/EzaCsHV TU/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=JBh+cvjCE5qbDGMWxywEO71e9ExUcTdeVqjFQvscvo8=; b=dJxD3FccVnGrAvj4kTz63Zi+jpvAm2T/6CFzG1CfluLgUY4n+Q0ZZIrxkrx/vW6lPq X/56cx1B9bCfkhqSmyCdPTwIQfvwbnqMw2vt+sZhOvyqtxeZCuB6TbuPJp+5UyT5Yxrq a/AO+U9L/eZ3232CVaE72wNgCE+sx7nB1TR7WIBS0Qe/5Zi8WZ6eHDiEj1JiA6uQPIYa 6+AuALpgRItr5DxEppOgXhgQ2JXQMziCWlot81/zIYbzj+XQiWqbAub3rhxJH7cn8MHZ pwEomXYMOe5I60AzWAQ5xvD9Y3LAVJxUOksvmT1EeEslob+mry5+Xzpzu+PeurBdw/FR nB4w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX5GtYpyO9m7vuz/5h/kGCjpKbGXe1CbwUR+tNra1Mh8jx0hZsX xtRTCRL8a8ap943pqFQI2BDHxv+A X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwV+PrsvQtVLLmifGMaiUnkdeqePesfWUfeMltxPkMdErABKDg6CL4dzVZrsl/59njHTXkzNg== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4fc8:: with SMTP id h8mr7010772wrw.177.1564439377707; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 15:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.6.63] ([37.252.89.106]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p12sm47373238wrt.13.2019.07.29.15.29.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Jul 2019 15:29:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Antranig Vartanian Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_14247B7A-6E86-4489-9A9F-4A94E32D3500"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: for how long can I expect the update servers to be slow? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:29:35 +0400 In-Reply-To: <875znkcxlo.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org To: hw References: <875znkcxlo.fsf@toy.adminart.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 44AC3809D3 X-Spamd-Bar: ------- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=freebsd-am.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=IDBxUzQQ; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of antranigv@freebsd.am designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::42c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=antranigv@freebsd.am X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.02 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[freebsd-am.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[ALT3.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ALT2.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ALT1.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM,ALT4.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.964,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.95)[ip: (-9.19), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-3.04), asn: 15169(-2.45), country: US(-0.05)]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[freebsd-am.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.am]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[c.2.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 22:29:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_14247B7A-6E86-4489-9A9F-4A94E32D3500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi! Usually the package servers are far from my side of the world (Armenia) = but even during upgrade releases I never got such slow downloads. Is it possible that there is a bottleneck between your host and the = servers=E2=80=99 network? Where is your host located? > On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:57 AM, hw wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > are the update servers still overwhelmed, or is there something else > wrong? >=20 >=20 > root@cdebsd:~ # pkg install xrdp emacs-nox cde > [...] > Number of packages to be installed: 116 >=20 > The process will require 2 GiB more space. > 335 MiB to be downloaded. >=20 > Proceed with this action? [y/N]: y > [1/116] Fetching xrdp-0.9.10_2,1.txz: 100% 404 KiB 46.0kB/s 00:09 > [2/116] Fetching emacs-nox-26.2,3.txz: 15% 6 MiB 8.2kB/s = 15:03 ETA > [0] 0:pkg* "cdebsd.adminart.net" 23:46 = 29-Jul-19 >=20 >=20 > About 20 minutes after starting this, the emacs-nox package has 90% > arrived ... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --Apple-Mail=_14247B7A-6E86-4489-9A9F-4A94E32D3500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEfrjE/88u0Kph7jFZYGhrFNq4FFYFAl0/c08ACgkQYGhrFNq4 FFaJrg/+L53L8lXW1ox1sipmoTn3LnxozX09R1rwDKPcp5qBjN/9r7F91pwC6EUk adUEVRhQuHXhdrNVH6miD74v07p3xwyapfR5ghopksQLmrDD2xcX01QurRcYOZ+7 zY1PYvaa4poDKpZqKS5n1RaYzlWia37zggufU0vFJkaA9N1bDZcPq0K5WF4zfPPm APGuPZGDNNyhDlTtMiUXyn1Y9ZoUA1LCCaFNszzXNDoDpJPCKhilfpjpjigbWhBN 8tBymekAPLTbSjG5ztHO97f0vANG8GYUuzsh9aF/0nLVjtdS31m9wjewrudHydZi feDETxeSsXv8KvFVFrPtVvf002bix6ISbLKFyKPRy8v7sPnp1L0OZeel7ZB44dDK 4uJmgUkeR9IBH31A+UQm4Gv7m6hu6EJHH/rBUfE+MrKta7nDnDK5S7/44OFBb3Jy vutETQ43kJerrd9Rzs63VOo5uyOI8d62oOyjhYNptfUmi0Yqv8+E3M7Ri1o9Ytme 0MYIj9HLem/PvSnJt0g35O4mDzc33kC1t131lnELZu+EVhjfJujnxrFVAlJENVcZ n2QvjLh88TrELUXv8ILs9MrIEjFY1SoLpYh9QIGtJhZ9lLT8LLG1DuZzfLrN/Hej b7tmiT8OCKuPGb4UVmg/6T62IX6qD0LSEROW5UCF5FK6RBeNWmw= =NFD7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_14247B7A-6E86-4489-9A9F-4A94E32D3500-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 01:12:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8891DBC501 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 01:12:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=qte4=v3=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info) Received: from mail.sermon-archive.info (sermon-archive.info [71.177.216.148]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC77185543 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 01:12:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=qte4=v3=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info) Received: from [10.0.1.251] (mini [10.0.1.251]) by mail.sermon-archive.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45yJRz5Z0Sz2fjQB for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:11:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Hardie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: OpenSSL client certificates Message-Id: <6F225C67-4264-4E28-A1E2-69CDFE321B16@mail.sermon-archive.info> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:11:59 -0700 To: FreeBSD Questions X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EC77185543 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of srs0=qte4=v3=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info designates 71.177.216.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=srs0=qte4=v3=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.61 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.62)[-0.622,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:71.177.216.148]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.983,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.22)[asn: 5650(-1.06), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[sermon-archive.info]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.37)[-0.371,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[148.216.177.71.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bc979@lafn.org,srs0=qte4=v3=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5650, ipnet:71.177.216.0/23, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bc979@lafn.org,srs0=qte4=v3=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 01:12:07 -0000 I have a Lets Encrypt certificate my app uses for the clients to = validate me. However, I need to be able to validate the client's = identity using a client certificate. Lets Encrypt certificates can not = be used to create client certificates. So I need to be able to use a = self-signed certificate for the client certificate validation. I have = been digging around through nginx code to see what I could find, but I = am not sure it does that either. Any ideas on how to do this with = openssl? -- Doug From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 02:21:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C053BE00D for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:21:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic310-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic310-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.186.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 770F4870FA for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:21:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: nxJlsLQVM1mzFBAZrnrcsumjzR_ccBXy4JsM4bt2u85HcHzSyjX4lnuXsTVzfqa A8VuZUDTL3dGMhTXfXtpH_yyFwS9AiAI79ixqjBETRpsLuH_f8f.twvRWDOZXmBwu2e.0nmY7N_p et8mTFL9wSSYPdr6vg__e4F79q6jNdc9r0eOmHqxwiSMaVtE4SZqFXUPEgJG0hQzDUn9WHyRloFu HpRcUJpn8Q_C.QD3dRqQtPMBXHUT35K4OncBNO7USAXV94s_YliVgYy0xH7u6btvoQz8CskzoePq t5d75mzUF1Ca8EJkrJvEaUEJMyaKlExY_MVMFkNuy4kGFogvfUiB2faGopVuA5GPYQH9stSs_Pgd x9GxS1eOAG8z0mSYP7G2k4uOCFmvnQwWW8FGWOgRoucvpDND95sRw1idISB2W6TilA5g6Muux8Lc BEu83G70XRWXhf6LSOhLU_LUe2rNwOQ6bcS._1wkoJNwZIZacwfIXc1j8Thy.OtQow1n2zzIJi49 p4Xd_f4_Qif0utOFyhpI5EPANtmIbZxd5wiDQLYh0RPWVApc.MvfGuZA1i5IxD8qzXU9WO9f0PKj koQPwp1G7sI0I9WUR24dz_d978j8yVgMWaq_vlHNpPBp4UyxQaABaXFMiahHp1BnSd1glKA.GgIz OT6mJ6mrSSe9__q80_.r9jDbpX_PN3EzYugfVze0nOzQneS0dXX45VPmGC8Pb9YO8u3ZVSmQFeRa dKL2SPeqYyZiMiXPH6tt4yQPiXZPG9WorBnF4yOslKCp6L.jnArsIvpVnMXBcdbzx.Sr.xG7jdnl .1GB84KeHwqhU14ZAIeFmsf5AxQNIoXwqAbca2B6iZsDNNlVUf3VQSkk1P7iQUJgMj.27dx6ZBFH L0ehPFxWfCXhJ.BLvxji6GuL.SEPaeSJkWlI1g26zRH_5u_1H7E7U9KM6STYMwjGhI_DqQ.6Nq28 1wbBYVfoWBsq0pxrM_66FcGa3B4SB3lcO8i3Ez.FI0WTjhdJCFI5UJ2IC5k7xAcl1qwTzHxR.Dcy t9fWYgMN9LRIAA5A.6.X8pjG3oZqSlKTVsdz4ghsut6XHdCOjWuhSfKCfaUTsxTYIzSbYnq5CxwI dxQtCarfHakRSEI2HaaMU1As_ix4Oi2ZPx4d5i39wQ2kn43sdmAWEPn55txet39qQPFjDL.oDeDG xgl8.99Yu5pojeDfucysEMeSVFrLLkVxZ6uQ1vWkYIhPpoU.jr_FWUm_BRXZrnYayEeNfn1_gE9z XHURs53Gsx0P6fSICDg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:21:04 +0000 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:19:58 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Ralf Mardorf Message-ID: <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13991 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:58.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/58.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 770F4870FA X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.12 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.992,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.964,0]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[206.186.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(1.17)[ip: (3.63), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.27), asn: 36646(1.02), country: US(-0.05)]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:21:07 -0000 Interesting. Just not into asking for justification just saying it's nonsense? I use a very simple 'at the wall' draw meter.=C2=A0 Over time, when things = used to consume a LOT more power.... CPUs could draw 250W, DDR3, etc=C2=A0 = As you added higher end graphics cards, they would increase the draw furthe= r..... now, if you've ever done benchmarking, you'd find that you, typicall= y, throw out the first 3 runs.=C2=A0 Why?=C2=A0 Heat yields increased resis= tance.=C2=A0 Increasing memory, a higher end graphics card, a higher speed = clock on the same micro-architecture, etc Things are in flux until the mach= ine comes up to full operating temperature. So, depending on the number of peripherals.... maybe a second graphics card= if you want dual monitors, you have some incredible protein folding softwa= re that requires gobs of memory.... or a filesystem of ZFS that loves more = memory, etc.=C2=A0 Add in more memory... more draw... Do you see a pattern with what I'm saying? Today, we see that high-energy efficiency is being pushed everywhere.... th= e CPU ( TDP dropping from 300 to 180 to 140 to 100 to 65 ), the GPU ( TDP d= ropping from 300W to 250W to 170W) , the memory (in case you didn't notice = the voltage requirements dropping from 1.75 to 1.5 to 1.35 over the last 5-= 7 years....) So, when I know I could potentially plug in second graphics card, fill all = my memory slots, overclock a CPU (for only temporary reasons... ), my obser= vations of the last 10 years or so, even through all these changes, was sho= wing a high of about 40-45% over the base to where it is now, about 30-35% = of the base. And, again, despite all of this, I still won't overspend for something that= makes no sense and I will, appropriately, size a PSU to my baseline needs = while leaving a good amount of headroom for expansion. I also consider the 80-Plus standards that have been implemented.=C2=A0 I r= eally don't want to hit more than 80-85% of my PSU's upper bound as that se= ems to be why the standard was created.... drop off of the efficiency of po= wer delivery.=C2=A0 Although the higher standards of gold, platinum and tit= anium tend to push that envelope of efficiency upwards to 90%=C2=A0 The eff= iciency of most modern PSUs hit a peak of efficiency around 60% (that may b= e outdated).=C2=A0 You would really like to have you machine drawing around= there.=C2=A0 However, as I said, I tend to allow for enough headroom to pl= ug-in additional peripherals if needed.=20 If you read between the lines of the above, you can figure out why you DON'= T oversize if unnecessary.=C2=A0 If you only draw 300W (there is a doubling= factor of AC/DC conversion - I haven't checked if that's still viable as I= don't have time to check all these factors), why buy a 1200W PSU?=C2=A0 On= ly $50 more?=C2=A0 If you want to spend that money, sure, whatever.=C2=A0 I= f you want to be at the peak of efficiency and be 'green', you can be at yo= ur 'most efficient' by being at the peak of your power curve that the PSU d= elivers.... so, at 1200W... you'd need to be drawing what?=C2=A0 720W ??!! (so... what's that?=C2=A0 3x1070ti, 4x8GB of RAM, some ridiculous high-end = Intel chip that sucks down 300W at TDP...=C2=A0 Yeah, if you want to spend = $5000 on a machine, then, by all means, spend that $50 on that 1200W PSU) This was what was meant when someone replied that they have different load = curves.=C2=A0 (and, no, I really didn't want to have to write this letter..= ..) Oh... and yeah... I let my little meter calculate my draw after looking at = the specs and building the machine.... I'm fairly close.=C2=A0 Also, there = are a TON of PSU calculators out there and a LOT of articles about why you = don't over-size. P On Monday, July 29, 2019, 7:49:42 PM EDT, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-ques= tions wrote: =20 =20 On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:03 +0000 (UTC), Paul Pathiakis wrote: >Take that and add 33%. On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:31:26 +0200, I wrote: >I would be careful when calculating real power consumption. What makes >you think that adding 33% is a good value? On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:30:10 +0200, Matthias Fechner wrote: >If you under or over 50% you will lose efficiency. Again, oversized is way better, since calculating a realistic power consumption is virtually impossible and it's also virtually impossible to know the optimal workload of a power supply. Actually you only could use specifications provided by the vendors. In the end you get a rough guess on the values. What are 33% or 50% of rough estimated values? The result is mere nonsense. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 02:51:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1BE1BEA33 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:51:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB8EC87EE8 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:51:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id z3so5919354iog.0 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:51:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=boRgyw5Ko/kXD4o+lio9yD2JtwN9EduXVOev4oIjEao=; b=jmAeEtg/VI5gTlr1TWi2tNuO+bS85ODGp3L/l90r+NuSak3YryfTMImqVJCUwxMjn0 YBt3HwUwDvShCMPoOaJUbK98yMlOoLkoRhCFCd0mnpGtkE9y67MhgqIVp/a/kUqgnBuZ aj+9mtPVdYvBLZKTtN9sGO1Mc4OiaJ6HMrgpNV6O/CWnfL6DRpYGtHeicwoWSPhE/SYj noHc0q7dC/jF4E1czEbOwSZyJyCMtm5raB+GkeUYDs9aBvhTqB2dAGx5trKpzJyzH9P9 eNTBREM5p2MWRpcJqhxs7kVpi5m3tmX1YTfUNYov9hRk8XUqRWxKG0J1/CtrciglbMh+ f7uQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=boRgyw5Ko/kXD4o+lio9yD2JtwN9EduXVOev4oIjEao=; b=m/iZYzYh0yJAhNkRVhxN7VS/BlkIVO5s7+htfie7lguAQQdCzCqelzao2KWbSGZ0Tq 09lSEjVet4W2CsgxxvF5KJ8/lIku+OuUXeZJlZt0bUcOooSfqpkyKK0edrcWxBGBOOR8 a4lJ3uXfzQ6o9EIWvPPuJW5Y19WkXYatAqEfmUyK917kpgF+/HGPSGrx8HZG8IJBhP3t DCCb81fqkqSwEwQpQN5VDM1ZDf56aiuxNTXy9E8PzJVTf34eK2OXBXO3BFspvue02WPQ RjXM4X7hnMWh7PjrGsHa1YcVBLhvdOu8BW4MJPG7C9ax42l24DXLuU/5t467hWhOtb5b Y0Dg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWyn9ROihS7BeBPh8aC2KTiqVOzVlAZ5o1pdXJKwOZ38N3vqU9I jKMFZM35Xmxr39uSL7tHllQdoV02pJURlIxhPH7DerwOc0k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw4y0JvFNHvzSUknfwOdM8/jveSHH9UDdNYzfJSapCUf1Q+tgtw1KwKZgylCHGX3xTnYRgSUeH7lfRH9t+tmfc= X-Received: by 2002:a02:a183:: with SMTP id n3mr121270224jah.74.1564455060234; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:51:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 22:50:48 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? To: Paul Pathiakis Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , Ralf Mardorf X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: EB8EC87EE8 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=jmAeEtg/; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.63 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.875,0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-1.74)[ip: (-3.12), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.10), asn: 15169(-2.45), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:51:01 -0000 Just to make stuff concrete here is what I finally settled on (typing this reply as my first email sent on the new machine).... I am top posting since it is not really inline with the PSU debate except for the fact I bought the one the store recommended (smaller then the one I originally planned on)... Item Price Comments -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MSI B450 Tomahawk (motherboard) 85 No complaints beyond not very clear instructions about what screws to use for what purpose and the manual has the build order wrong IMO (attach everything before putting in case).... vmm(4) loads fine have not yet tried bhyve/vbox yet AMD Ryzen 5 2600 (6 cores/12 threads) 120 WOW!!!! Much better then I hoped (FreeBSD considers each thread to be a separate core so I have 12 cores for less then I would have paid for a quad core/quad thread Intel).... make -j 12 DESTDIR=/ world kernel took 30 mins on the dot (compared to 3 hrs on my old machine)... compiled xfce/firefox and a few extras in about 2 hrs compared to 10 to 12 on the old machine Inland 224 GB SSD SATA/3 (OEM) 25 No complaints PowerSpec 750W semi-modular PSU 60 Semi-modular is annoying due to the build order suggested in MB manual and the case design Thermaltake V100 Minitower Case 40 Who ever designed this piece of crap should be shot for awful case design (almost nothing is easy to get to inside and the manual is completely useless... whose bright idea was it to put the drive/PSU bays in a separate caged off area with solid metal between it and the main bay?!?!?.... hard to snake cables in and out and very little room for working when putting stuff in) Crucial DDR4-2666 4GB non-ECC RAM 35 RAM is RAM Kept Nvidia GT 710 video card Starbucks Mocha Cap. 3 Caffeine makes the world run on time! Total wo/ tax (and coffee) 365 So far works perfectly with 12.0-RELEASE (AMD64) On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:21 PM Paul Pathiakis via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > Interesting. > > Just not into asking for justification just saying it's nonsense? > > I use a very simple 'at the wall' draw meter. Over time, when things used > to consume a LOT more power.... CPUs could draw 250W, DDR3, etc As you > added higher end graphics cards, they would increase the draw further..... > now, if you've ever done benchmarking, you'd find that you, typically, > throw out the first 3 runs. Why? Heat yields increased resistance. > Increasing memory, a higher end graphics card, a higher speed clock on the > same micro-architecture, etc Things are in flux until the machine comes up > to full operating temperature. > > So, depending on the number of peripherals.... maybe a second graphics > card if you want dual monitors, you have some incredible protein folding > software that requires gobs of memory.... or a filesystem of ZFS that loves > more memory, etc. Add in more memory... more draw... > > Do you see a pattern with what I'm saying? > > Today, we see that high-energy efficiency is being pushed everywhere.... > the CPU ( TDP dropping from 300 to 180 to 140 to 100 to 65 ), the GPU ( TDP > dropping from 300W to 250W to 170W) , the memory (in case you didn't notice > the voltage requirements dropping from 1.75 to 1.5 to 1.35 over the last > 5-7 years....) > So, when I know I could potentially plug in second graphics card, fill all > my memory slots, overclock a CPU (for only temporary reasons... ), my > observations of the last 10 years or so, even through all these changes, > was showing a high of about 40-45% over the base to where it is now, about > 30-35% of the base. > > And, again, despite all of this, I still won't overspend for something > that makes no sense and I will, appropriately, size a PSU to my baseline > needs while leaving a good amount of headroom for expansion. > > I also consider the 80-Plus standards that have been implemented. I > really don't want to hit more than 80-85% of my PSU's upper bound as that > seems to be why the standard was created.... drop off of the efficiency of > power delivery. Although the higher standards of gold, platinum and > titanium tend to push that envelope of efficiency upwards to 90% The > efficiency of most modern PSUs hit a peak of efficiency around 60% (that > may be outdated). You would really like to have you machine drawing around > there. However, as I said, I tend to allow for enough headroom to plug-in > additional peripherals if needed. > > If you read between the lines of the above, you can figure out why you > DON'T oversize if unnecessary. If you only draw 300W (there is a doubling > factor of AC/DC conversion - I haven't checked if that's still viable as I > don't have time to check all these factors), why buy a 1200W PSU? Only $50 > more? If you want to spend that money, sure, whatever. If you want to be > at the peak of efficiency and be 'green', you can be at your 'most > efficient' by being at the peak of your power curve that the PSU > delivers.... so, at 1200W... you'd need to be drawing what? 720W ??!! > > (so... what's that? 3x1070ti, 4x8GB of RAM, some ridiculous high-end > Intel chip that sucks down 300W at TDP... Yeah, if you want to spend $5000 > on a machine, then, by all means, spend that $50 on that 1200W PSU) > > This was what was meant when someone replied that they have different load > curves. (and, no, I really didn't want to have to write this letter....) > > Oh... and yeah... I let my little meter calculate my draw after looking at > the specs and building the machine.... I'm fairly close. Also, there are a > TON of PSU calculators out there and a LOT of articles about why you don't > over-size. > > P > > On Monday, July 29, 2019, 7:49:42 PM EDT, Ralf Mardorf via > freebsd-questions wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:27:03 +0000 (UTC), Paul Pathiakis wrote: > >Take that and add 33%. > > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:31:26 +0200, I wrote: > >I would be careful when calculating real power consumption. What makes > >you think that adding 33% is a good value? > > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:30:10 +0200, Matthias Fechner wrote: > >If you under or over 50% you will lose efficiency. > > Again, oversized is way better, since calculating a realistic power > consumption is virtually impossible and it's also virtually impossible > to know the optimal workload of a power supply. Actually you only could > use specifications provided by the vendors. In the end you get a rough > guess on the values. > > What are 33% or 50% of rough estimated values? The result is mere > nonsense. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 07:07:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475B9C2C01 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:07:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic308-17.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic308-17.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.178.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AC338E4BB for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:07:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: P4tfKdEVM1mfMsqIqOkSRx5Se1pSGePkdwp_4HnIXXxY9UACN8zTDCARD3NirNv thRtzy7XH5zIATjbeoCntIQZCvecSrzv7LgslJaddZRN5oZF48P7l6hNASArlZ2cCJfQvxLSvBp_ OQeMmgOhi3.wXdm8_K7TP4EOd3laRCBoZDAkv7hKQeoVpDf6yeMzkfIDHerPIXQ9plbjXAki9sm3 pAGUab77tfNXCF46uzBqtsSzky8z6.aAJs_FsP_tjbbbCJ0SKqftc_1c3G_JlTvqwQDOhs8Awrgo NBm_ATZtxniDZXkP.0IlnbykGVEP0Rzyt5h2rtoKrj3lmksO8W1av7Gs0rD4eIA58wGTI7jWLqQs Y9gVXDJWoXtbSy6tYb5K_E9XMW9IIng2bpecsFhZ9wFJb3O6nzDQaHkZwbCGqNXNUOrHoGPXJThb THwzOxe2venSWhYKHuzKQzk92.bRJT5B4aAQGRthVj_lIROhMWfYHnhuaiPnx6FvTakdiJefHTD5 yybWUX9Q5Y1crDHN0okAKRtg7LEqrrbiodMyNnUrQQwpZuZQcTnv1Ubjp96._Q3bapf4Q57Xq4eo swJIUHQIlQVvNxVHfgg5H6Z8hvCE7WVAyIu9Z2S5sR7dMN1af57MUpZkqewTqNCoE9lI99AadqVm rnctxipb4pG1entWTBwUUUu1SSMGzkkLr.UwSfm_1NSB7w3vMuqlz1_mzt.mRry8mnVfnCwOBOfd c.xBODenSz8vkMxS7Fntf3Co55dT67lgm6HjVo6J15_5k4mX_YzGpN95qpjoNwIqgEzwqTX0ogwX grFSNd6Nl9qcBOnm8bxGmL7s8AtHgm0QamkDi3X5MW.kuz5OeB5r130wjxVzHLzRkmPJ2PQTFrDI pybjJPe1AohNclOm3LNUnJa_VhDsXNIji4PPHwj0N8gGqGI1bNoJzMFszbGh_oDaRfqquHaN0Brx trOe4aqMp6bZGGv0M.et1eBIQomuYYNkcAzBLlP6.FlfMjfVGA4_nhbsekFspOeiSdVNIgK0C71t PTaPoia8asrmmv0XroAiab.65lTEeDRmuAI39hAvYQd_EzZXzRG.DRYjoAdm62zYxDCTm4.aKArB uiJFoS8T8jbYxevfwU5Za2hHOdgJ2HKwJyJIDb.V7KHNeD1oW7AxCtY1pxtOarr15MICPvHT3qOY 9lEJktU3mn.mMlruL5V_UGwltieUunRichRCRhSvigHgI_fpXfs1Izwd0pV3.SuKH Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:07:21 +0000 Received: by smtp412.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d7b06b39ad3c42604bc033bcd044c284; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:07:20 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:07:20 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-ID: <20190730090720.26844abb@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 9AC338E4BB X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.52 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(2.03)[ip: (6.20), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.26), asn: 34010(1.79), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.987,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.997,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[145.178.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:07:27 -0000 On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:19:58 +0000 (UTC), Paul Pathiakis wrote: >'at the wall' draw meter. > >Do you see a pattern with what I'm saying? Yes, I do. While the user manual of averaged supermarket wall meters claim tolerances of +- 3% for Volt, Watt, Ampere and KWh and +- 0,1% for the power factor, those are actually not calibrated and it's not permitted to use them for anything serious. At the moment we have building dehydrators in the cellars of a tenant-occupied house. They are powered by the shared electricity, so power consumption is metered with a thingy that looks noticeable different to those supermarket wall meters. You might own a good meter, but most of us do not, but without a good meter the metering is useless for the calculations you are doing. >Oh... and yeah... I let my little meter calculate my draw after >looking at the specs and building the machine.... I'm fairly close. Each manual mentions that "specifications are subject to change without notice". Somebody with experiences could do a rough guess of how much Ampere are needed on the secondary side. That said, the allocation of the maximal provided Ampere on the secondary side is important, too, not just the sum of the maximal Ampere. It's not that hard to guess if a 300 W or 1200 W PSU is closer to the needed PSU, but it's hard to estimate for anything between 450 W and 850 W. On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 22:50:48 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >Starbucks A discussion regarding coffee would be way too OT. As an aging European it never comes to my mind to take Starbucks into account, while we have "real" caf=C3=A9s anywhere you are. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 10:27:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54B3C63FB for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:27:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 235A293666 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:27:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id s7so126710399iob.11 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 03:27:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=z9bnbuB3uXMcA2HOopjXwJ87VT8jKMxC8+FW9Zw5sK4=; b=jhAZ3KbddHafSrAi/RUx/NVkhXUFX50bHj4zXhbZgTTYpww74zjo3d8xdmv5noyK6s nz+CFjeXD3dSc0PSt/biVG+EeW6pXtI5R1nas6+y/aagYVIZiOliv6FI/k51z0Ut4Fk2 QBi7D5J2d+kxtsoqnIwpg5cVv4RnB8VqRwWTTiqir+3JnTImrUvI9BKwxRZ6DV86oF0b V1sr5gl36Wo8uxvwKj4im4dAoOkO0/QYxdpNjegMDaBPElIW9gJRikdU8VznmSJd8rj6 /lmGDpVn3kbB5ixb8UFcxH7meXovENAJRDe7iF546JJjo2GSn1h8PwXUvLp0O7mZYeBK XA3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=z9bnbuB3uXMcA2HOopjXwJ87VT8jKMxC8+FW9Zw5sK4=; b=M7+fPa1ZqwrEj7XVYKrPmYgbPiKplVdtaGCCmeGaPa3uWbr1FPTV+7111i6R2D7W2E j0FNYNkZQ8jn2j7+BNmE2EwpP2w0aZxBdBzzehTVYtwIbsGvoJzfGoorKUM9IVWQrXEr wmeLKIIk1kfVNAsSxXmHAcuksr40BtWwmIDD3C4GTkAeCYNNETHVEcml7cjmN4gTMLcS LeD11Xu5oGBl8YfT77FbtlI7apzMUAdn66U5fO1tjPa6oYG72v902dcvTThkPds3FGik QKgpCbNkMkcPD1h0ZfTV0oRH1L8SSxkCkO/lZ4/Eeh6w6aeSC79h8F4+7dBtk68u4qB7 r5RA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU5i3mv5h0lXCysPIKp28JepDjEdO3jVtL3th1axG53vGzZSyvd u8GYAxMqDa5T6z9zJXlsVXgZv4RdGTzR92VAdBA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzvYoCfoJgxxJ8a/qeaSyT4kqVe8SWP/uuQ1fc7M+cYJQcQ7/yq5UJs4WXz5X1u332vE2rwaWPBW67Oec+AUas= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:881a:: with SMTP id l26mr81466060ioj.185.1564482476512; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 03:27:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 06:27:43 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? To: Paul Pathiakis Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , Ralf Mardorf X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 235A293666 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=jhAZ3Kbd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.16 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.19)[ip: (-5.36), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.09), asn: 15169(-2.45), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.964,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:27:57 -0000 On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:50 PM Aryeh Friedman wrote: Item Price Comments -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MSI B450 Tomahawk (motherboard) 85 No complaints beyond not very clear instructions about what screws to use for what purpose and the manual has the build order wrong IMO (attach everything before putting in case).... vmm(4) loads fine have not yet tried bhyve/vbox yet Just did a quick test of installing a fbsd 12-release instance on vbox works fine (with NAT'ed NIC's)... the next and final test (at this point I see no reason why it wouldn't work unless the bhyve command line has changed since 11.3) is install PetiteCloud and set up some boot time vm's on it (finally got some time to update PC to handle non-Unix-like VM's so I guess it is time to start writting some code again ;-)) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 11:19:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66F3C7247 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:19:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eduardo.lemosdesa@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15A6E950B8 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:19:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eduardo.lemosdesa@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id p197so44401065lfa.2 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 04:19:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TfmEzdcqTl2PIMNLEMBmF/VuA4dzp+TqzlGdwE5LA+s=; b=pJioB5EYG/I0g4XwNQoE4TOnErOXkIcSsbWh/xzJzzqB1H0fiek3cy31JZhf40JR6o eXsPXV7SyQR3uqpACGroyTo4SvYHkRjeosX1412yU9qKVQTkNZb52qBxzNF40ckPGe8B uZ6mVFM7R9NFdpqqz+T4GuEjjnTg5iBttSYP/mvMI7+6l5f7QFlUU7nSuhEji8SvBA2f Gv/aZgs2cWdi/wpmjMMSKCP6r+DR1Dg6lTc0cVyCdUAolnAniL7PLo3JvWRCZQ/pZMs6 j727vA823748KgD8hvfwkE/Tvhq55IFNKS4IuWbVJxhkVaStY1TVNnQMnXJoL13u/Lle 5iSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TfmEzdcqTl2PIMNLEMBmF/VuA4dzp+TqzlGdwE5LA+s=; b=FyZuX2UM1oQr4IAb1fSOQNwIdKTQVz/CnsljCUz834lEqw/v13oR23UB0onitbQszM 0CYdC41zJ37H0sVHaJDp8IxFQdKAtoG87QEBpTMHQ5WkN1p8g/Qb9dc9qUgw+7sFHe+o Rg5GQ/Nf1c14QuZx2E3rVnG8YfL3NpyShTyuHdAtRWqFIes0J8LTHbF2t87zB8dPLHQ3 z5xDA4vYqbobYI/ljwpJGV+rAaN2ycanTFpOQ9enrfDTGSMB2CIClPTfBb2o6KsYcHPe GVLSfuhqHUN7m25qoFj+3nyzaTbBQMPCFlmXgnGMIhkASn0NO4jgpceUGYuKPRlw5qL3 ncNA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU0f+NY3k9F2BMf7WOLQ18+HR46JbZys8R0ydvIaYX+fOG+AiM4 UXzJiRMBdEK02Z8yeEAjwI1WO3jTbnYkt3xXpIxPl3UZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxPDR4R+AyT+RiwJz2Pyf4Lza+rDFnlBnyxXVD7c/p4CUl5fyabXvapFoSGZyIv+8JLzgrZV8dKyy8+Ysj4gQQ= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c514:: with SMTP id w20mr54965769lfe.182.1564485568139; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 04:19:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723221938.28a62565@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: From: Eduardo Lemos de Sa Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 08:19:16 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? To: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 15A6E950B8 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=pJioB5EY; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eduardolemosdesa@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=eduardolemosdesa@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.91 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.936,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-2.96)[ip: (-9.27), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-3.04), asn: 15169(-2.45), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:19:30 -0000 Dear All On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 6:31 PM Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 5:19 PM RW via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > On Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:18:48 -0400 > > Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > > > (the documentation > > > currently has a reported bug that leads to a misconfiguration [you > > > need to load nvidia.ko as well as nvidia-modeset.ko in loader.conf > > > and not post device probing > > > > > > My understanding is that you only need to load nvidia-modeset.ko in > > loader.conf, and nvidia.ko will get loaded as a side effect. Are you > > saying that's wrong? > > > > Yes: > > nvidia-modeset_load=3D"YES" > > Will *NOT* load it correctly (it will not find the card in the device > probe) *BUT*: > > nvidia_load=3D"YES" > nvidia-modeset_load=3D"YES" > > works fine (about twice as fast performance also). See: > > > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/frustration-about-update-of-nvidia-dri= ver-port.57477/ > and associate PR https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D2122= 79 > > For reference I am using: x11/nvidia-driver-390.87_3 (current version fro= m > ports/head svn repo) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > My experiences with Rhyzen AMD (1700) CPU until now, are extremely positive: it is very fast and reliable (used in server to perform quantum mechanics calculations). It is turned on 24/7, running 12.0-Release, since January without problems or reminds. I think it is important to say: I installed a water cooler system (Corsair H45). In another machine (AMD FX 8325) cooled with a standard silver paste, CPU temperature rised until 80 oC during FreeBSD (userland and kernel compilation). After I moved to a water cooler system , temperature is alway under 25 oC (during hard processing work). My 2 cents Best regards Edu --=20 Eduardo Lemos de Sa Professor Titular Dep. Quimica da Universidade Federal do Paran=C3=A1 fone: +55(41)3361-3300 fax: +55(41)3361-3186 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 11:47:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27205C78E7 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:47:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82ED895C87 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:47:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1564487226; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=4fTcnZVuW+EJyqa/f5xtBAoovoo=; b=lYPqydIeasePkvuuwIN9h2tMjbeanLb2KpZCcwblXXH69arXZQbrmptKkxknKg6U iwi5lDf3+dirjiGsY7VFRkcihpA6h7ftzCJlPXwn1RMUCQH/sNg2ijHXMO2AxfX/ rJ+8s2Qp5q0BBVxITkAAzy4EcDEvW0fg5F2+5q1Y0GdK4+wB8HWf/b+T3dyTQ437 krYfI5NMv2oXfhaF7CKLuavRNjwrACihfOCaFtZjMDvfz8k6iJ5j5GtPhtnzJrgV xRsIy8nn15UBZYXW0OPlTd6f4Ee7RHojU0ku6ru3ZCOWYndY7iW8OaxuIihYmXuh p5rF8aeANxLAwZfXNkGdqA==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=cN+eTWWN c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=0o9FgrsRnhwA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=pydPhfhbLmHsz7-Y8EkA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Authentication-Results: smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com header.from=roberthuff@rcn.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=roberthuff; auth=pass (PLAIN) Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:55150] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 92/76-18345-93E204D5; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:47:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23872.11833.472713.928307@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:47:05 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: "freebsd-questions\@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 82ED895C87 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=lYPqydIe; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.95 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-1.85)[ip: (-9.39), ipnet: 69.168.97.0/24(-0.19), asn: 36271(0.39), country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx.rcn.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[78.97.168.69.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:47:13 -0000 As long as we're talking hardware .... I am speculating about replacing roughly ten year old machines with something based on AMD's Threadripper series. I know these have only come out fairly recently; is anyone using them and willing to share their experience? Respectfully, Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 14:00:12 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30354A413B for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:00:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.186.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05DF49ACA0 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:00:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: D_6XVYIVM1kMCTYy254nEArsdpiQlR4xqs5IvEMOM31VGd9HVYLKl6FshI8BaV9 .mUpW9CID.e4Lh3V9_83d9Hk0Ynf5d0t.HGC_Z.Bq1vBwfYfmdMRgHJ4x4b52VEpSntuMfU3TExg w1WoK8cqZXvhWR4_FcF4ROP9MQ40sj5dIBKC7MP7EQUWvA2Hk3RzIzJoVbBZSGheimC9mq8diXUL QThVhV8ZRb_i0ChcrYC6eAAX6qlVqs0RitWaaJsoFzrbGld0_5RMva0RAxmL8DpXvkNNe_rsHubv oBB3bwiSW920Nk0RUwMy2vr2nvVrYqKzVglw8KtfeSd7EZ13SA88teQkss_ekw2oPBG2alVGIPUB 5ow_qMARth8xqoM0goxp54Vv3nsoSZub.PHHZDDYl9STdRganC8Pw9dNcjcDDufZ.JO97A1WX3pD UYuH7X6prtNxUkbd2WNAjR1TFKISojV.jATs3F8rLYo0V_46fsBxQqsGXwdHrwKcK8obj_zSLXo9 4C23kPkFOqip3vmUuEngbM8Kq0gvi.SjTGtMIh_w9dPOuSZXbVVFSETRHcdy.a14JFYdUTqUfc.7 3qoIl_6l0TrcDvBZpmCqKXLbvrAFU0WJkRKfwDgjFtTZX1mONaJX2itmlGaDkYKz_ROZa3X2laVU Hk2RSRGvyfGbTDPR8_90TNuAYqk_Ug21nZqv2LqypsoOz_CsuhbTcmEhewBQ_R1NWRbIAADXZZIR UPKxMkqj73oA14f2Bc_pT11L7nxaQzOOWX0pCs9GfbQjvCF7Uq86AHWkuXw7NMvniHnljwCX.We2 AMVhpFkb9vBpzMfoAq_vgsfv4UU1s4ZH2i8_BlTww8Giqx0MPQbc8t3uRkUohxiPEL1rcAXUquJp 4QtE1taviULrdygvYwi5qFXehoAQi1zbO1TtEkxauNJ2uMVl2jqCgoWYx4v.wndwRda.Uv38bffc 3RTqWL_y7D1jai4dK_AI5aaK1lZL6SVc6XMsu9ryXzmYgMCNGhW_Ww2U00AqsFGi2QUzBdwXssQT OYlRW5M4c.v9WBF.oEsjcHqHocClkP2SBN9nHGDi68pLFfHkIzM4BMdwIhqprYlv7Dwyq7TOxd4n qjnQ9d6XFPYcU7emkp2nduBi5XrKfqhn1wJBoRknhXLEQ.yDQoHMWRFoUvdul1qSfahTgcs9FxEM DwI4d7hgc9cd.L3IamHSqQ32cl9INSeq.K2GVx3uEtMPthrzq1J3VrH2w0ysoIys1FDQ6uZKR9Yv KM8Uu88Z2s4PyHahwuXTDC9fDKQ-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:00:09 +0000 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:00:08 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , Ralf Mardorf Message-ID: <324949962.3390321.1564495208884@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13991 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 05DF49ACA0 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.20 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.11)[0.105,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.971,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.998,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.186.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(1.13)[ip: (3.42), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.27), asn: 36646(1.02), country: US(-0.05)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:00:12 -0000 Ok... so now onto other points of relevancy....=C2=A0 (I believe Ralf and = I have had our say... :D ) One of the nicest, inexpensive cases I found is a screwless case made by Ro= sewill called the Challenger 3. Everything is well-laid out.=C2=A0 The PSU is on the bottom with the approp= riate filter, 3 lg, quiet fans on the front, rear, top.=C2=A0=20 The ability to put 5 3.5" drives in a side-to-side orientation via pop in r= ails on the side, two more 2.5" drives in a std front to rear orientation a= nd two 5.25" drives at the top, it's pretty useful.=C2=A0=20 The only shortcoming I find in the case is the length of the front USB cabl= e not being able to reach all the way to the lower far corner.... (if you h= ave a USB header closer than the most extreme distance from the upper front= of the case, it's really a nice work of design and if all your components = are quiet, the case is REALLY quiet.) I bought the Challenger, Challenger 2 and now Challenger 3.... the original= was a nice design and the subsequent versions have had minor improvements.= =C2=A0 I have a total of 4 in the house.... two are v2 and two are v3. One thing to remember, if you have adapter for SAS (yes, I have some) to pu= t on the drive or any other adapter, it's a tight squeeze.=C2=A0 The case o= n the 3.5" is narrow in that it accepts SATA/Molex connectors and a SATA ad= apter easily.=C2=A0 Large adapters can be a really tight squeeze.=C2=A0 YMM= V. P. PS - My new server case is a Nanoxia Deep Silence 1 v2.=C2=A0 It was one of= the v2 previous. On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 6:27:57 AM EDT, Aryeh Friedman wrote: =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 10:50 PM Aryeh Friedman = wrote: Item=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Price=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Comments---------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------MSI B450 Tomahawk (motherboard)=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 85=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 No complaints beyond not very= clear instructions about what screws to use for what purpose and the manua= l has the build order wrong IMO (attach everything before putting in case).= ... vmm(4) loads fine have not yet tried bhyve/vbox yet Just did a quick test of installing a fbsd 12-release instance on vbox work= s fine (with NAT'ed NIC's)... the next and final test (at this point I see = no reason why it wouldn't work unless the bhyve command line has changed si= nce 11.3) is install PetiteCloud and set up some boot time vm's on it=C2=A0= (finally got some time to update PC to handle non-Unix-like VM's so I gues= s it is time to start writting some code again ;-)) --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 14:11:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC67A4501 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:11:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jemma@mail.couponchief.com) Received: from smtp116.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (smtp116.iad3b.emailsrvr.com [146.20.161.116]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEC2C9B173 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:11:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jemma@mail.couponchief.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=mail.couponchief.com; s=20190102-l7mayevg; t=1564495863; bh=A0DRR6j3oTlkaVDZL96gmP1mY+NVPQzv7Zx80TaCfTs=; h=From:Date:Subject:To:From; b=J9jAuP5X8GVcI/cK0KzQ4IUg5hQHsg8e9Y839Z3ttvjBCyQhMqA1RFlYh+1WMYz/2 JZRWW4jHR2DF7RVQfMDjzukwVFiKKxSuQDdaPf6NCBZ6YmjmXuzQLTpBKE1duiggKe u1aim7yWFTkz05hrEa1fjCOjN3qicWGfEZhFyG54= X-Auth-ID: jemma@mail.couponchief.com Received: by smtp23.relay.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: jemma-AT-mail.couponchief.com) with ESMTPSA id 1C3DAA01CB for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:11:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: jemma@mail.couponchief.com Received: from mail-lj1-f179.google.com (mail-lj1-f179.google.com [209.85.208.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256) by 0.0.0.0:465 (trex/5.7.12); Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:11:03 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-f179.google.com with SMTP id d24so62233890ljg.8 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:11:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV29GCOWFEZF42tc2y530uqG3m3kSwDTscDlE4AWwuHkF5WEmG/ anSAhMPqwd1lwPvvN4E6eu1EC4T5oS3eeqQl2/0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyM/PN/WgBvhKP/gDXBrkY3MagedAXL3yWEjCE5a6J2jrR411RvilIXC8k9yZhjIdi7oXPkS4OGfkxKP+geRko= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9b4a:: with SMTP id o10mr4702528ljj.137.1564495862238; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 968012905573 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:11:01 -0700 From: Jemma Stevens In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 07:11:01 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Hi from Jemma To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CEC2C9B173 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=mail.couponchief.com header.s=20190102-l7mayevg header.b=J9jAuP5X X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[mail.couponchief.com:s=20190102-l7mayevg]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[couponchief.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[mail.couponchief.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx1.emailsrvr.com,mx2.emailsrvr.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[116.161.20.146.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.866,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.985,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:27357, ipnet:146.20.0.0/16, country:US]; IP_SCORE(-0.54)[ipnet: 146.20.0.0/16(0.15), asn: 27357(-2.78), country: US(-0.05)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:11:10 -0000 Hi again, I=E2=80=99m Jemma from Coupon Chief. Just wanted to ask if you received my = email about our beginner=E2=80=99s guide to cryptocurrency. I=E2=80=99m resending it in case you didn=E2=80=99t (please see below). I hope you don=E2=80=99t mind if I include a link here =E2=80=93 thought yo= u might want to see it first: https://www.couponchief.com/guides/cryptocurrency_primer Best, Jemma P.S. If you don=E2=80=99t want to hear from me again, just reply to this wi= th the text: unsubscribe. On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 2:16 PM "Jemma Stevens" wrote: Hi there, I found this webpage while looking for online resources about cryptocurrency: https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2017-01-2017-03.html FreeBSD=E2=80=99s site above mentioned =E2=80=9CBitcoin=E2=80=9D. Thank you= for including it. We at CouponChief recently came up with a beginner=E2=80=99s guide to cryptocurre= ncy that you might be interested in. Maybe it=E2=80=99s worth linking to along with the other resources on your = website? I can send you the link to the guide if you want to read it. Looking forward to hearing from you, Jemma P.S. If you don=E2=80=99t want to hear from me again, just reply to this wi= th the text: unsubscribe. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 14:39:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25EDBA5016 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:39:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic305-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.185.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 585E99C2A6 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:39:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: GJJkjX0VM1l4nvBvoGVC3uGhhIKjKHcAfv7e2mQAtznwyXvBc_Td8475YdRwKyW YFHqoau9I2C4.IZK47tnzadkUY16bh835S_fP6.7hPgMXYn_gjO3kPpkeOxjm8fdxqRVLL6.YTj0 iBDN5s821AqWQqVw.dXO2TLffJPutoRtIJcDEwwEDb6tbpjMkqC46UH9BTnBuse_hxlmGfqrOvPT bXY6.JTQF2SsI_4FeWPRnouxbTEjHpt1S_UVmPjbnH36OxonJKCcGPb99RWDYGTMPYiF1vcFSvv4 tD7yC6MIK8RxLQd8CNlIEvL8Vq2ZzENe32jV00qCh9A7h9SC95.xM5NHqUIbJqh35vIAkhnUuJoA 3mChSsVfKX8h9M2CasU0NekBD6n0sa89VUHJD2yrIpDmd7.QzKstpLYgz06na_.NUSRTpo1FB5Uv SD4nVIymHZ5egONPI5vuwcsHuZzpgFUGX_6wn8hcLXJAgDuOKpOcqfOhzWoMIYmcRTD1YQjAeZoe S3q6f6043orXov7DtfQPv7ZIfvHQg1D.h3MwgrWkzAaQ5z3m7UkZKVw04Ya8RZod87WGE3z1rxSF QP.4WxfX5AxAvX2HBNyS6Jp91cfOspuUj9BdDtK.F6sU7KEqxagjis8efHyEWf0CPk.b7ZqIRdeM OkrtCNVEmPsD9zb88SgqEWYkOpQtswCtyJrTszl7wvETkLYbleOCYQjCAYQcd8kZfK5UY4zts56n UeqtNao7D8oMHBxK9WAltwEUU6vskmgAZ4Ev.PYwwPchhzzxvF9QurKk9nWdND9qwYcB51uRqnzO _r2f73S3z90lg9wfyHcuTd3Nsu7guXPuLMIuyuxGD2tQjLFCgU5o32ZUBpmxwtmCdBpxBtMsZWsF iOHEQtZ9ronWnV.ybXUvR3_c55O1qGEXl.2PVOIL8PTz3LQfgIgGkfAcoSZ9rGbtXu2JFoQZ.PVI 66Bgev8AiZEY6Kv1ezDRJK8FOQhjj7RpIBcH37rAq5Y0mV8TEqJ7lyJvQQxU5xIDP_cR57Rs5y6J DTb2L178l7k1Cx1GQkRh5BibOIwuu7.78x2EHD7xjKV2EMWGoQykczPKHdeRxUbKOMe76.04I59v h28LyyFNgIhAORuBn46QYdLpW3WauhVOsFFvBs2nRV2q3m564WXFFajSJqb2RBEqXnVxQyQQr7Ld 9TLNRpx9WfuYx6TryWTZQEZusXRNy.Pg.y8f6DKpx5J607U2tXFfKsVThqzax7w4KX5rtCtBWNf0 .Qi1L5OSOTIdqpztE5w-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:39:05 +0000 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:39:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: "freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org" , Robert Huff Message-ID: <278130479.3470532.1564497541159@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <23872.11833.472713.928307@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <23872.11833.472713.928307@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13991 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 585E99C2A6 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.21 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.90)[0.904,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.983,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.185.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(1.34)[ip: (4.45), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.27), asn: 36646(1.02), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:39:13 -0000 Ok... I have an opinion on this as well..... The TR is a specific socket and not AM4 like the the rest of the Ryzen seri= es. I have the AM4 boards, all from ASUS ( I guess I'm one of the few people th= at have never had a problem with an ASUS board in over 25 years...).=C2=A0 = I have B350 and X470s.... The nice thing about AM4.... I can pretty much plug-n-play with all these b= oards with my Ryzen 1600, 2600x and 2700x chips....=C2=A0 I had considered = the TR but I have noticed that the high-end 3000 series are outperforming t= he TR 2000 series.... I'm now looking to get an X570 and, probably, 3600x m= aybe even lower with the 3600.=C2=A0 Honestly, I don't need any more comput= ing power. (I'm not saying that the TRs socket isn't, it's just I like having the opti= on of so many chips on AM4 and I see it as more of mainstream vs niche.) It comes down to having it a year before it's obsolete.=C2=A0 I expect AMD,= with their "fantasy roadmap" (which I can't believe they are making a real= ity and executing so perfectly on), will have AM4 chips of the 4000 series = at the high end next year that will, probably, beat the TR of this year.... Then there's cost: Typically, TRs cost about $1000 when they first come out.... the x700 and x= 800... about half that.=C2=A0 Power consumption is 2-2.5x more than the AM4= set.... so TCO is much higher.=C2=A0 (Also, there is the 3900 and the yet = to release 3950 <--- !!!! ) Personally, if I was flush with disposable cash... I really want a TR but I= can't justify it. :D I'd suggest looking at the various benchmarking sites on line for specmarks= and the like and weighing all the costs, initial versus ongoing (electric = bill.) I've had the first 2 generations of Ryzen and I am blown away by their the = speed and low TDP. I also wait until Black Friday sales to grab a new MB, CPU, and Memory.... = Since my PSUs can handle 550-650W, I can easily upgrade as the new chips ar= e even lower on TDP. Above is just a lot of stuff to consider.... right or wrong... it depends o= n your needs. P. On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 10:14:48 AM EDT, Robert Huff wrote: =20 =20 =20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As long as we're talking hardware .... =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I am speculating about replacing roughly ten year old machines with something based on AMD's Threadripper series.=C2=A0=20 I know these have only come out fairly recently; is anyone=20 using them and willing to share their experience? =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Respectfully, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Robert Huff _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 14:46:14 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA05AA5520 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:46:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberleo@cyberleo.net) Received: from mail.cyberleo.net (paka.cyberleo.net [IPv6:2605:3e00::d8e2:80b4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 143B09C86D for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:46:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cyberleo@cyberleo.net) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:1f11:36f:1c2:67a3:b18c:93e7] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:1f11:36f:1c2:67a3:b18c:93e7]) by mail.cyberleo.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CD3798F8E; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Assign an IP address to a bridge fail To: Pierre Dupond <76nemo76@gmx.ch>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <240458a3-789a-7368-1848-e7dc66bb2eb7@gmx.ch> From: CyberLeo Kitsana Message-ID: <7d2738e7-e9ce-aaa9-c973-063a5e407d9f@cyberleo.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:46:09 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <240458a3-789a-7368-1848-e7dc66bb2eb7@gmx.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 143B09C86D X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=cyberleo.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cyberleo@cyberleo.net designates 2605:3e00::d8e2:80b4 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cyberleo@cyberleo.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.68 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.863,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2605:3e00::d8e2:80b4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-0.01)[country: US(-0.05)]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.01)[0.006,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.cyberleo.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[cyberleo.net,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmx.ch]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13706, ipnet:2605:3e00::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 14:46:15 -0000 On 7/21/19 1:17 PM, Pierre Dupond wrote: > Hi all, > >           I am facing a strange problem. Just after installing a fresh > > Freebsd 12 on an Pc Engines APU machine, I build a bridge with the 4 > > network cards. > > > If I try to setup the address of the bridge in the "/etc/rc.conf" file, > I can not ping (outside the address > > given to the bridge). But if I comment the line for setting the address > in the file > > "/etc/rc.conf" and I set the address manually with the command > > "ifconfig bridge0 inet 172.16.0.11 netmask 255.255.254.0" the ping works. > > Do I have made an obvious mistake in the "rc.conf" file? What could be > the reason of this problem? > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > ifconfig_bridge0="addm igb0 addm igb1 addm igb2 addm igb3 up" > ifconfig_bridge0="inet 172.16.0.11 netmask 255.255.254.0" /etc/rc.conf is parsed as a shellscript, so later definitions of variables (such as ifconfig_bridge0) overwrite earlier definitions. Either combine the two ifconfig_bridge0 definitions into a single stanza, or change the first from ifconfig_bridge0= to create_args_bridge0= . The network setup rcscript provides create_args_* to set parameters that can only be set during interface creation (like name), but it also happens to work well for setting physical parameters of synthetic interfaces, such as the devices slaved to a bridge. -- Fuzzy love, -CyberLeo Technical Administrator CyberLeo.Net Webhosting http://www.CyberLeo.Net Element9 Communications http://www.Element9.net Furry Peace! - http://www.fur.com/peace/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 20:38:00 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2D25ACC7B for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:38:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04A5A80C64 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:37:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564519076; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=vsSkS/YyFM/V/KUCHk6sVerPoRw5Vm2Bz45xsQIhDEw=; b=I9DnP9dYBvbKh5IRkk0d7wVba0J1LfO20Npb2uE7llAglZNFW0kwSYXuvphXozm6Z+ WNYA2aYA8FOFKjCMfGPVkjaRL6tfNPmq4wUcMDVj7aXii/gdH/GGDIMIqXIuXn9c4z7U yMBb92YnsKNj8YbGwvPw/voi9MFfmUxWOBB9D713XMbwwO7+0RWXKVEB+Wu7BZjy2uDd AicP3IV3Fw4viuXdnl1gcWFt7aKHWYLTpskwZNgivBzTbkSx3AC8w/aclhQ9/6YH1gf+ tD+5tLfpwNl3K6BTcqsPyYjp1xuLygnP3QFxb7TKU3PAavdUOWuYneysrBZTEwFDMV3G HYog== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv6UKbtLlS (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:37:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hsYsd-00025D-8f; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:37:55 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hsYsd-0000sQ-6Z; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:37:55 +0200 From: hw To: Antranig Vartanian Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: for how long can I expect the update servers to be slow? In-Reply-To: (Antranig Vartanian's message of "Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:29:35 +0400") Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:37:17 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <874l33xnr6.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <875znkcxlo.fsf@toy.adminart.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 04A5A80C64 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=I9DnP9dY X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.60 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: smtpin.rzone.de]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.74)[-0.744,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.76)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.32), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:38:01 -0000 Antranig Vartanian writes: > Hi! > > Usually the package servers are far from my side of the world (Armenia) b= ut even during upgrade releases I never got such slow downloads. > > Is it possible that there is a bottleneck between your host and the serve= rs=E2=80=99 network? Where is your host located? right I've tried it at work today and got acceptable download speeds around 1.5--2.1Mbit while installing packages to set up an xrdp server. /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf indicates that pkg.FreeBSD.org is being used. When pinging that server, it resolves to pkgmir.geo.FreeBSD.org (96.47.72.71). Ping times are around 125ms from here. This server seems to be located in New York --- in which case "only" 125ms is pretty good. Pinging it at work shows an awesome 91ms. (Ping times to the US are usually around 180--210ms with the traffic apparently being held up in Frankfurt. Perhaps that's where the spies are located ...) This might indicate that the problem is with my ISP. Is there another server I could use? Or can I reasonably mirror the whole server and perhaps use something like rsync to get updates? I don't mind downloading stuff for days while I'm not waiting on it. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 22:15:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF1DAE74E for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:15:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7117683B9C for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:15:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564524942; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From:X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From: Subject:Sender; bh=ebum8Af4nFJ8OOeF73PvCtt45dPfm2h2OOLs/vDEd7M=; b=h1/bKzBYGgKhS/USISCvLBNgHQEVOJ49Zfzcb3b5hEWHV85K9BEuyQt/jE7IfTU+oQ lGa65F4lhmkjlYOJSEKh4Z0VuqAaLfhhYBNbz5vVSAYjJq2oiM/53ituxI00l7ST+N7M 0d1L9GV4xgYWbo4ID9MYRKA6clRMeDCU8JbGRmgAzBAwQ+sLcJv3x+flVvA++kg4xGKn /jMYVXTxPvF0qdWWyKEY2lSTO3Af26vmj5cRtKALIoPfoB+W+eJw1VlGVI2yQXRAong7 8XQ/izK3dCxBVlFJ5r5/LIYiXENoDISr95xXuR8/qL4ddGQTnITeKsgoAce5GPVQpqCn QZmA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv6UMFfLsj (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate) for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:15:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hsaPF-0000Xp-9L for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:15:41 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hsaPF-0001X8-4z for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:15:41 +0200 From: hw To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: thunderbird in German? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:15:34 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7117683B9C X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=h1/bKzBY X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.63 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[smtpin.rzone.de]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.77)[-0.771,0]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[9.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.75)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.31), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 22:15:46 -0000 Hi, is there a way to get the GUI of thunderbird in German? After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon (not to be confused with a German dictionary (which is also installed for just in case)), the GUI still remains in English. Is this a general problem with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 23:30:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BD0AFC9D for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:30:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF83085AAF for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.92.230]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MybbH-1iHyHN1nTR-00yzz5; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:16:48 +0200 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:16:44 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Paul Pathiakis Cc: Paul Pathiakis via freebsd-questions , Ralf Mardorf Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-Id: <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:EVFEGxgyOejtkxyXFcTk/0+DTGmt4Jlp8icjdjt1jwQV3j7N0uI z92Geer9il6ZoXmOpjJH5pcL/K9B96luy/RqxTKXHkLzFICl/rD+og0fPl8Vb9uJfnFWgM/ tUnfhLOuJrLlb9J1nb3ZfYLDW0dAecOwpR83QJq09QpkdqODrY5hcOffIOfPLrfDIgpmvGd xDHGTx2SzrSi7sE0uXbqw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:1cB5c6882Ps=:JD+z8c8RqOrcx8mH/eCVLf yt2mXfS/HcT2uFm94PluX7mwijpWjqCpnBJd782ZFFqKBBSzrV5dzi0oP89Nods4uUZipBpig lzeVhC+KLbp9qrQ54em0xLqpGiwDGZf3VEd206T4Z6yR0IspV/nKPQGW8iSee61bv7jzTiztP Ai468J8QYxKZACdESkFnxD1ppwkziY/BOjmMbCs3noPKhidavuFcPovqUkff9vEAVW5okvVvm en9+WYPEnRDSyV/kTYwKGfFasYu50gy+EW6FAvyT9B5UOkptfXEEk+com0F+hWqvDvfBYppcy iC37in6beqI3TaYSGoIPfWNz0PvGa3YLcqakjpc8Oed3ZjosY5HXyGBAeuyi1Za9cglWfCbm8 NKt1pe0mvwLKUxjRDw2gt4MVuhhCKi8NQD+uraIAEIDp026xLy6/rZiO6HP7lqOWw8KaoVjHn 26X6PAUF3UIqRlWo53g3Hmzz4lMtocM6s0WilYkFj6QFT0ZSFSAyWEHjiVfHLlkhOpHgE14Kw rb2uUT2bdhq/ks3rjuTGcMfMiFGCTEdurHYER4vT5v51gX2/8+hvXPD+mhTLcc9qK/oCf66W8 OUV3qP+vnBGLisiI9DKOuTuMfCu+VP+spRTqiUa1/Qep2XbL5oQWWgBeWAre/sUwP2hFI/JD8 xBgf3gNte4r2veFYIkveCS0CNaxWyAYs8C8YAOzjpcX3QIYNXSAZd2agUA2xkCBHhzawl/Zbi TcPMI87sFTsZAmalVB/L0SlN9owd33tkIS39eB6+Dk0wJ5S8jiLRPEYpuR4= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: AF83085AAF X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.83 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx00.schlund.de,mx01.schlund.de]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[230.92.5.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.88)[0.884,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.994,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[75.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.56)[ip: (0.36), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.13), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:30:07 -0000 On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:19:58 +0000 (UTC), Paul Pathiakis via freebsd-questions wrote: > [...] maybe a second graphics card if you want dual monitors, [...] You can have dual monitors with _one_ graphics card, as long as it provides two independent outputs (in the past VGA dna DVI, today probably DVI and HDMI). ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Jul 30 23:52:57 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84812B0556 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:52:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E566C86893 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:52:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.92.230]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N0X4c-1iFU4G03aG-00wUrQ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:27:56 +0200 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:27:54 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:/x8lvXQfjNMbMwuBXNQqyDOXskOhGBS0HePQ16wqZvquI2H1Stt iH99LUAi7S7AmXr+w6SmVcJ11W0kJyKsHdqUdCY2fE0zzBOI2wMyEDu9nFtJzv7mjNpPR4m HRgHR0NWLor4HyF54Pm5JxPfLcsmOjujzeu/RPPDg2s2aQ+ofFNy344+1XrD+TCEWZsE0Fu O3UojN8ZeUpMH03m+34rg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:6ngUDM/m0Q8=:CCShqOBBvDZGmEf13NbLoN mKPzcsdiUL7XV7/JS4kEqRF5nN7SSCT/Z4xUB07cpFI8QNHi6Zsr1wx1l8Si9xH5q+ttyRh5w VuLpD2jFsSjfORlUypDHPTQxnsAsBLW7jhG7gU6y/e6fFmvm5jEcrDXG0Pr2Bmj44XFSE53gt s2k/XVZRSO5g//j26cz/4EoDk1a1kqmV6XnbY7h3uCRviHlKy+guUdeMbr2fu4RKmLgP/U8qs 1xFHp3GT7RgR8x3G1zKVvHgJWeIX0D0MizFNystlZ8uCwyooaXdSJTVZd2rsp16Zn6yO/Bxtz 3kkRjm/mWT4Lvw/nQAnbqK5Lpc3K4H3p4HxpwYeLT/nC40iV6M2T5iUeR6Ghwy9ouwlEqnEVw yZmLa3bNx3zeyzKI03c8s7Zu9dYaw1yjVtYWwSw8kYBV++f3T5HYwz0rRmsz/dOX9/H+uMCek 7t/o8hFFOVgGZ1K7y7v4lOrA8eTsE+S96tQj9tl43WaBVwMD7G5W1s54MRqeBwQsDFsdroGDI D3jO5a53mlrJSPnFdIA8cRtkhiDu67RohLj00v5RqQyprvNH8cwo5QkALbe+DU2du8OSLFtGE og4/lzbGPhmn1gTMqS1V6T6MIyHe10hn1quQcJ1cwM5DLTgMB3jxEyMDvV6uRMrytkmqRcu0y kZF9SsjRbCui1V+8IfmulOy7oyORKzw5nnMItG5I1qLNBWxCKOndyLEEyu+BgRp/hbTOweLj/ Q3BMFV3WxC2YcBv/CVSGRneLUtS6LBMLsAQG9hjb6RgTs9EsZmm5vGOalqg= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E566C86893 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [6.14 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[230.92.5.178.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.66)[0.662,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.92)[0.921,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.998,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[13.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.17)[ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:52:57 -0000 On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:15:34 +0200, hw wrote: > Hi, > > is there a way to get the GUI of thunderbird in German? Yes. But it depends on the version you're using (and the same problem applies to Firefox). The hints I'm providing are therefore derived from ongoing trouble (language-wise) with Firefox, so check which and what applies to Thunderbird. :-) I'm not sure _which_ language variable has the desired effect, but you can try setting those (example taken from ~/.cshrc): setenv LANGUAGE de setenv LC_ALL de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LANG de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LC_ALL de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LC_MESSAGES de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LC_COLLATE de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LC_CTYPE de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LC_MONETARY de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LC_NUMERIC de_DE.UTF-8 setenv LANG de_DE.UTF-8 setenv MM_CHARSET de_DE.UTF-8 It could also be possible that one of those (taken from ~/.login_conf) could be the one(s): me:\ :charset=UTF-8:\ :lang=de_DE.UTF-8: Additionally, check TB's configuration if you find a "built-in means" to select the interface language (as it seems to be now in FF). It is probably hidden somewhere in the preferences "pages" (no idea why "modern" software tends to make things more complicated than it should be). Also make sure to check it after upgrades which might cause TB to switch back to English (same problem with FF). As I'm writing this, I guess _that hint_ is the thing you should be looking for _first_. :-) > After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon (not to > be confused with a German dictionary (which is also installed for just > in case)), the GUI still remains in English. Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. > Is this a general problem > with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD? Not FreeBSD-specific. It's one of the typical problems of "constant change" when dealing with Mozilla software... :-/ -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 31 03:31:10 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CB1B3ED6 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:31:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A5D08C02B for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:31:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1564543868; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=cAyOf+vojPrYefOalyBGaYKyq50=; b=ftBWqeCEY2sA8NGPKIFLecjgsWa0mGfTZbSIIJLPjAiZ5MWw/D8iaes+02YHKtHj Wnr/RVmqxslSRjAMVCfFPwZ73kkUpkHv1WOjIPoUmjO4mjjw+0UDV/WA4f8OQJ++ OAWPENZTNINGrOL5fo+xsSD7gUlnSFCajp6AWCKEK+h0YQqUyDzB0JmhoZM7NRlA R+CngqwBd5CTL8x1pMKlRJzRfLDshTyE+gHysMOH4F//acuSBXL2Cqw+cgjqL0+K 5dFzZzdjZw5nJOiwYMlzMVfmPTyCHE5AAKIBV49J7RyWM9B7tDIr/U4qrkQd/bmH umMIx8ApvurWRKvZc8FnRA==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=cN+eTWWN c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=0o9FgrsRnhwA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=AfcNXJl6iQPlDSg1NcUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Authentication-Results: smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com header.from=roberthuff@rcn.com; sender-id=softfail Authentication-Results: smtp01.rcn.cmh.synacor.com smtp.user=roberthuff; auth=pass (PLAIN) Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:54464] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id FA/79-18345-B7B014D5; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:31:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:31:07 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: Polytropon Cc: hw , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.2 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7A5D08C02B X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=ftBWqeCE; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.94 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-1.85)[ip: (-9.40), ipnet: 69.168.97.0/24(-0.20), asn: 36271(0.38), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx.rcn.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.977,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[78.97.168.69.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:31:10 -0000 Polytropon writes: > > After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon > > (not to be confused with a German dictionary (which is also > > installed for just in case)), the GUI still remains in English. > > Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch > combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as > in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. It is my understanding that: a) sometime back, Mozilla did a major overhaul/upgrade of the interface between Firefox and addons. As a result, all third-party add-ons and many Firefox-provided add-ons stopped working. b) some of the add-ons (e.g. AdBlock) were rebuilt to the new spec; many were not, including my personal must-have PrefBar. Whether this affects the OP's specific case is above my pay grade. Respectfully, Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 31 04:16:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F90FB4A3B for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 04:16:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic308-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic308-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.178.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AB148D134 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 04:16:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: c_BJRyMVM1nps62CvZBmYlqgl0ZyYvWaOc.L3oZHgmxg7KB.5hvl2ZbI2fs6dez EfgJmcIkMAVXieleSQEy20WaYGPvkH60jRK1BX0MydljdJDwGYiD1rj426yrHKYa35w5dcnjb58z RUAn3tGnOsmvQhborkL8n1j3KVg8VG6QV7r14oxVqYqFu3TmPW.vFXRGwZURh6O8UkPVnAGt3Ima hIM3Mz4gB2aPyy07_mkYrIC3h9y71i8EfMmhnjKn068w.Oj0nI4v3oOLJ5vKzo20_21leVx_TS6b JsaQJgELtqEnsg1p6nSIitOI7vke8jKZy3b5Con2Sda4DRO_7Y3d3.WrNzShINEPr.JMZmAp7XnB Gq21P4_3yb9bK08qayaN2IcKiALnL1SYEXABr6M9AIdEDnMr_Iu988rgc8s2JxnGm6_ESRK7UbuM Jbtu.lXgZnaBqf5pLze86TPvfjDFOYMvQrXUnVAeLw.ka0vhTYLiCB8uIEqHxaqgF4NOO6PvMdgk w.x5RS5QuVSCoPqqMO9e1whFxxopaA_FIGRfwGnuHcs0Fbcch_pySD_wpyoDNBa2Nwfy5hP6dF9R bC3dX01A1jQjLjsy9YE_lXfDTqTJALpghgP2Bo5WFHWznpG7wwEpFu_MSMoAe62v5vElyXXwuVwY .dbsfnwzXuJr0FPRBUAEzXjROUqUEFeLPuYIogHg2PUZzg_IXD8f.X_39vLOTjwP3yv7WBqrsY6B 5yi58L8dPdWjUXy8_Odb5Sm6XAf2aJEuuQYSXUtnGVojJmjQBwMdAI8iNDGt6hxhYtByqbUYdJo5 iLpeN1M32hfwDp.GXneMP4KSBmwxMStXiuHgI8u9XgdaICJxloTtYVrxKXcs642ZT.L4RA2xYYXG hG5RiJq0NMPM6z__h6sNufrPynIbAmKkfr3vlx8IlrST9EgbWZXxy.Zui.S3xFr9GfjhP4NXjEf8 Q9f4BRY5ZJ4.AJBK.V7XpK0CqNxxNgbxgq6Ut0Rubi3p_shKcX_0tl5UUJ1a_lP72CjtOMY8bYVU w5zQ.Dv7pOid47lsFEigBJrwfGsS_4TfojKK5VyUGYi.3B8661fOqmIPle0yPsjyvx9FPMr4_d_N NXVEVgFxz9VbuuKDvhZmdt0KvqPea78D9ftwWt8WQKYzxQD1nh6cxGVlKy4GKsdOHa9sM5zyZcm5 FwXazbqXSj4p2zobhHBWQdTrLFJjY_Gm6EG_M1P6Dt4LEFJUJhFaG1RcsY5YUhZiFBGw- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 04:16:19 +0000 Received: by smtp408.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 0c839f7348ea2c24698de5999b6bc863; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 04:06:12 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 06:06:13 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-ID: <20190731060613.0d940a32@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8AB148D134 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.66 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yaho odns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(1.20)[ip: (2.04), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.26), asn: 34010(1.78), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.98)[0.980,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.981,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.996,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.178.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 04:16:30 -0000 On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:16:44 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 02:19:58 +0000 (UTC), Paul Pathiakis via >freebsd-questions wrote: >> [...] maybe a second graphics card if you want dual monitors, [...] > >You can have dual monitors with _one_ graphics card, >[snip] today probably DVI and HDMI). Or HDMI for the new LCD + on demand VGA for an old CRT ;). From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 31 09:07:06 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E50FDB9146 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 09:07:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3119894A38 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 09:07:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id h6so9470451iom.7 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 02:07:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AGl1BsvZ1wLd4ttg+JdP6bBr5irj70C88Luk9/xNJBE=; b=GuGDMlOgh0TQdA5W7Qvo1z3IIGINY71LfNH7R98svd2jNJB4v5NCIhjvi+RRbJl3D9 TMZScXwYkRK1kNUFS+yt43ee0mYUMlF9fKLqFJMhHDeQ5KbDvhFXTn6lra1gYa8jySls dmhoTfvm2UgdVT8nRbYM1ilu34d2Rc0IiANv5c7w2bLJlSvMozwfJ64JVennVPjODDRN D81Hl7wxIGIKbRDF5st9EnBhMHV77KEQxGi2K5D6lV+ZLdHhMisSZCh8g3HvTrTpPxKb kmZb3Ul8pKi/XS+/GklW7Yvkg0t+FyQtRYyjhg609L7h8IZKIpG15Hg9tkeBK+gMhrJz VeVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AGl1BsvZ1wLd4ttg+JdP6bBr5irj70C88Luk9/xNJBE=; b=Tj6zEqbv4T9egajnVtDh0m/gyxh4WsQjY5RU63iLm4Vg5BpCUFuZWYJgabG1d7XdKK WyTSllFpiH61aQViJyLZKCZBJpU+fS++grxlc0CZItcnuWK9NH/aM7KosVpwoKFvvgJQ aGrYycet2+r4OLU0jIz5jyZpoMQg6Y+CtGeAeWgz45OCUgHR724S6vS9Z/KhqVE8x5TD imt++OJMXnWsbDMbwLJ71iJDiXwhS5rtOTFOdWx1XJWCBrKzsjePRuGUoi4dpCLPfyaw YF2EkTbYmQKtZjgBjRU/ovtd556C9puPTjqU+G4eCebiUpz88w4vGV8dIyHiYO9zxbmd GgCw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUS8N3bne0gU3yVGz9um1oi0zMVLvZWPjaP4OTp0+EOdJcCK09V YADjG4GUx9fUmcsLBeIYCnsSHaWxggqM5Txu2+c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwpqNOVk8lGqO+n0PsbzLmTfcmXvHDhyQhRvd80GKpv8e0tGa7wZeAEIapA6eH47I4VfiDK+xQBlUr8kuvfkfI= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:928a:: with SMTP id s10mr2942778iom.29.1564564024894; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 02:07:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190731060613.0d940a32@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190731060613.0d940a32@archlinux> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 05:06:52 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3119894A38 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=GuGDMlOg; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.99 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-5.33), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.09), asn: 15169(-2.45), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 09:07:07 -0000 On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:16 AM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:16:44 +0200, Polytropon wrote: > > >You can have dual monitors with _one_ graphics card, > >[snip] today probably DVI and HDMI). > > Or HDMI for the new LCD + on demand VGA for an old CRT ;). > The Frankenstein version of DIY computing. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 31 10:24:24 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96044BA781 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:24:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamisouckova@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-f194.google.com (mail-oi1-f194.google.com [209.85.167.194]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8B9D96F5E for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:24:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kamisouckova@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-f194.google.com with SMTP id m202so50336483oig.6 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 03:24:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7snKpX7ry3YR37AjCGuxdH2Z0+yY0G0Tt6sBfd2/8Io=; b=OWlhAtZkiaIecnbfE3pIaP0SZl3Qfi/H5jm9h+FTXmLHN/KdkAyCC99862soodFBGw nywgxj/6ozvH3fWQoc0pJxpHThvWlPwfWLWNwar9o3JM7AoPVdXutIMaCV0DCEgve/F7 ySfeawzNT/1ku6z/SZMBmQuqqXduxyGeSwAKKN2mwbLPi0EbQc/fMm1OknIoEUpJPpvN RVAQLe2cvpxOdQY5ZIeMNq7zSl9KOHbHdQEgngnZhk/LSs/4zAjwb1jKFnUcH4abuAcL rGeu2P2fxBET80b1C2WuIeuBFUbyFPWRkZNB+qVlJXQqv/BfFxJcmDaEJz2tMYZbD5fC 30tg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVxQxiXLiIxaN6QPKiW0jQ4InXgov4RO6fm1r8sqyI5Rcq1Xgos 40pq6UBT3U+SDYKClIB1uJkmDbXmR2AoonmFDqpBsFe1tYs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxPvjT+01JMLV2uDtsNwwrRcDUluFm0e165BWtwb0OAvuoI2L418urNVPNtaSUh2zYn1VX0CtncXtlDX997Ed4= X-Received: by 2002:ac5:c4cc:: with SMTP id a12mr25007328vkl.28.1564561726064; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:28:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <875znkcxlo.fsf@toy.adminart.net> In-Reply-To: <875znkcxlo.fsf@toy.adminart.net> From: =?UTF-8?B?S2FtaWxhIFNvdcSNa292w6E=?= Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:28:29 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: for how long can I expect the update servers to be slow? To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: C8B9D96F5E X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kamisouckova@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.194 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kamisouckova@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.19 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ksp.sk]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[194.167.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.18)[ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.41), asn: 15169(-2.45), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[kamila@ksp.sk,kamisouckova@gmail.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[kamila@ksp.sk,kamisouckova@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:24:24 -0000 Hi, > are the update servers still overwhelmed, or is there something else > wrong? > > > root@cdebsd:~ # pkg install xrdp emacs-nox cde > [...] > Number of packages to be installed: 116 > > The process will require 2 GiB more space. > 335 MiB to be downloaded. > > Proceed with this action? [y/N]: y > [1/116] Fetching xrdp-0.9.10_2,1.txz: 100% 404 KiB 46.0kB/s 00:09 > [2/116] Fetching emacs-nox-26.2,3.txz: 15% 6 MiB 8.2kB/s 15:03 ETA > [0] 0:pkg* "cdebsd.adminart.net" 23:46 29-Jul-19 > > > About 20 minutes after starting this, the emacs-nox package has 90% > arrived ... Random guess: any chance you are going over IPv6 here? In my location, I always get reasonable speeds over IPv4, but often (though not always) get very low speeds over IPv6. I have not had much time to investigate this issue, but it seems that it doesn't depend on the ISP in my case, as tunnelling over different IPv6 providers produces the same results. Cheers, Kamila From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 31 20:52:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35597A8789 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:52:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zQb36ZqHz4LQ6 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:51:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.92.230]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MCbMx-1i1xqi2MK3-009gVD; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:51:55 +0200 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:51:54 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Robert Huff Cc: hw , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Qi3XznERdMn/zTvQvyhlWwxFPXDirdE/2ak4nhmym7Lp6l8qzff ceSX11IF08TesEmkSrJUvdE8sVVk+fulDk3iby4jqqkiM9vJDD6J/JHXN2/iKOAQHZDChi6 nJjFYIFdmYlNL8XhcwzuZgwI0w04n5Wzur5+OGUNxMuK5uGNQ2PgT0sVQOPhEfRm7Z22MrO qMbc1TUNHn4CkiTF4HQtw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zBsrYgCgBD8=:2pxWgS50Y/UnvBzf4bo8ao /JCaRoBVi7OfjskXJyEsinECc7OXtEKOHFrZWgJnPhxmlQ1CXR/HBd2so0N3AkYUnoItPmgsX 7m4YXp12Ym/o7JYRbZayiq359mhTHlIudRhwIlaHE+Nc/fJCyhxtibOOnA93e/ZEHmTlqYJsw bU8Z1iWljsVhhMIzAJ3pjLwHaC6hJsrJLmiENcmT+kIPvCpJq8mKOUzKszb6CHHbYkvaOWN+Q K/Ewa/qJQDq1icwz8ypNiRtboePDX0T0lWy0RaY8yg6jZ4NgJabFhg3264MQbHewIgbHi9DAB /vNCLa9fFcr+qS2Io1xnnL4PxKu2p/I4GF3d3KTQxOarwFpKark7u3xmEHwE0ad+xQrn3Sjnb TLHqKHnnKD5B5CppxHkZZAS6j3pJz29V6f+/AnFEBlt0YtlZ1+I1asqqCGbcod0j1iUvJAIvZ vNrIeJBal0+B5b4Kc4pQcHOubeaEz0qBHkoObKJCxbfTG1OVrYF9+13ACegR8TyW3Gmr8/T39 UCM3lfg3QRXNuz+WyDvSh+3KA5F/GbE3pE4OotBC9YEBSkoG6wLfchcWTURDMkCtXY9JrcIm1 Zn4eeTS+SegidF0tqBEYdLY/ZCTYM1WKhJgAOG3K7g6LRyLDXfGcFISpdMBkC68WbewpKYJar NhT6hmTC5LhnWSAOFg1IfKvNFuBRb+wdapApeBH+SU9QSn30S1wn9Cl5h1yIaq26prBXLw93N Q9YjHSW9BzWDxKzLXcTu8EXnImFRQVZC2odSIQ2sur4DrIfxrIWP9/nwTMU= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zQb36ZqHz4LQ6 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.135) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[230.92.5.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.961,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.34)[ip: (0.83), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:52:01 -0000 On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:31:07 -0400, Robert Huff wrote: > > Polytropon writes: > > > > After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon > > > (not to be confused with a German dictionary (which is also > > > installed for just in case)), the GUI still remains in English. > > > > Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch > > combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as > > in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. > > It is my understanding that: > > a) sometime back, Mozilla did a major overhaul/upgrade of the > interface between Firefox and addons. As a result, all > third-party add-ons and many Firefox-provided add-ons > stopped working. > b) some of the add-ons (e.g. AdBlock) were rebuilt to the new > spec; many were not, including my personal must-have PrefBar. Yes, that probably is the case. Luckily (and thanks to search engines) I was able to find out how to change the interface language _now_. :-) Sidenote: Among the affected add-ons weren't just the german language packs, but also an "interface locale changer" add-on where you could change the interface language easily. Now this functionality is part of Firefox, but you need to explore _how_ it works, to prevent the disappointment of not being able to change the interface language. I think the same applies for Thunderbird. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 31 20:55:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2CA8A88B1 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:55:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zQgN5BQBz4LYc for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:55:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.92.230]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N8XHV-1iOGEo3Vtx-014Wef; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:55:35 +0200 Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:55:35 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Ralf Mardorf , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-Id: <20190731225535.5beaa890.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190731060613.0d940a32@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:M/pLfjtpCP3fTOZN3UxffGMkyrgS+rbHEJFtKOrybR3DudScT3T BA/wJ5D2E596SFtnvuMxmE2yKRGECFsryDHQtFCz3x8BhzOWIunNooC/q9LEBkGLg4gL7sm 4zxV52FmSGW1XkihKPzgCgl/lftzBlA4Wt1aKTSAUX0Rw2GOuJyFCYLCDxk57+Pe7uovj4a x4YjuiqMsfNuDB/ZMoCtQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:cq0VMEQPzC0=:g5rd07gAmRSgJXkUpvTS9g Pi9OA3ZC2DiIWL5dc9ozG4iyQ7s665T5u7d6kcwNiqpupqvce3YtgyTn1I5otCgyGGICqK3ba csvUkQAmpmWb8RhuTR/rOI/T6zSvrENzynF+vZhF4S/DVXtE1rvxI6oiaNKVIcGbWlY4/T7Zq UDVvFLfn3sRsy/S/dOSw8B701IeXQkpRck2BoDtbik9A45bkvwDSvvcHmRZThPYc3nI/yTHHz DbCRgUG8KBX36oKHgalIvpWjH4fgHiSDo5tRcBlt/UQiqtYL/YZzA7i0hayBxXleS4dLOGX8J eigvbhBsn7LgjMCWX1/NGT8AtdZg9c00ZPJ9UCc962XlruhEaIIEX5/fVm/Y0zRHDkUAKkt6e QFypIwY3uUQFit4E1TGPiEtpEE8C9LkSLghH11T0REyrik/u2/LIHV28Nv/4YdzQcHXCqstA+ G+ppFQkOH3dyPJspzxxmsDpjSdjGPxAR2/19S8o2YapVZ5qpJbDg2HG8QCtBPa0KsdLAqtxmX ntgR1Km195vWtz36I1A1ab7KXvym2/MMgHnf+5jquabqym/N4ZACiFDHfAK8Rh3VyELWUQ+Ua 2CorOp0EYNVqbuyF4YuCbFExHGktMO1wkB0qWZOkPOGRqNh15Ut5pWTVDdlhU131fVgjp47CH HrALq1BNB4OS5w0R9rgfOB/DiYK/5X8G0L3xDAkBYCkURCOfwXofAR1nkt3HcpcI08X672BaD Pu+wk+CMlMKkpRwAYTGp3Tfptolw1tvqqmuOGG9lOH820RCGxSlBa7uv6kI= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zQgN5BQBz4LYc X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.135) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.33)[ip: (0.81), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mx00.schlund.de]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[230.92.5.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.960,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:55:45 -0000 On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 05:06:52 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:16 AM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:16:44 +0200, Polytropon wrote: > > > > >You can have dual monitors with _one_ graphics card, > > >[snip] today probably DVI and HDMI). > > > > Or HDMI for the new LCD + on demand VGA for an old CRT ;). > > > > The Frankenstein version of DIY computing. Hey! If I didn't have a spare 21" 4:3 CRT, I wouldn't even be able to read this! I'm a Frankenstein museum of forgotten and reanimated computer hardware... ;-) I have created dual-screen setups with CRTs many years ago, with one graphics card (1st monitor DVI->VGA, 2nd monitor VGA), and it was very convenient to work with. The only problem with CRTs is that they're demanding workspace area and volume, compared to LCDs. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jul 31 22:51:26 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219A4AA721 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:51:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from merlyn@geeks.org) Received: from mail.geeks.org (mail.geeks.org [IPv6:2001:4980:3333:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zTDs4nxpz4SDK for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:51:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from merlyn@geeks.org) Received: from mail.geeks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by after-clamsmtpd.geeks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E49711021E for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:43:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mail.geeks.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id E914511021D; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:43:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:43:51 -0500 From: Doug McIntyre To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: OpenSSL client certificates Message-ID: <20190731224351.GA67809@geeks.org> References: <6F225C67-4264-4E28-A1E2-69CDFE321B16@mail.sermon-archive.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6F225C67-4264-4E28-A1E2-69CDFE321B16@mail.sermon-archive.info> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:51:26 -0000 On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 06:11:59PM -0700, Doug Hardie wrote: > I have a Lets Encrypt certificate my app uses for the clients to validate me. However, I need to be able to validate the client's identity using a client certificate. Lets Encrypt certificates can not be used to create client certificates. So I need to be able to use a self-signed certificate for the client certificate validation. I have been digging around through nginx code to see what I could find, but I am not sure it does that either. Any ideas on how to do this with openssl? How are you validating a clients identity? Through a web page? An email? Logged into a shell? Openssl is a command line tool to manipulate/create/change SSL certs. It can be used to setup your own PKI infrastructure (although it is fairly fugly in how to do it). Google "Setup PKI with openssl" and you'll get 1000s of articles. Most poor. If you want to validate your clients connecting to a web page (since you mention nginx), you can do google searches for "SSL client authentication with nginx" and get pages like https://arcweb.co/securing-websites-nginx-and-client-side-certificate-authentication-linux/ which is what I think you are trying to do. I'm sure there are hundreds of other pages out there for Apache and Nginx dealing with the subject. I've never really seen people really enjoy the experience of doing client-side web authentication though. The new hotness is webauthn and a security dongle. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 01:12:54 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FC4ACA73 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 01:12:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=ol51=v5=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info) Received: from mail.sermon-archive.info (sermon-archive.info [71.177.216.148]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45zXN6179bz4YGv for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 01:12:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from srs0=ol51=v5=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info) Received: from [10.0.1.251] (mini [10.0.1.251]) by mail.sermon-archive.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45zX8q2wglz2fjRY; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 18:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Subject: Re: OpenSSL client certificates From: Doug Hardie In-Reply-To: <20190731224351.GA67809@geeks.org> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 18:03:07 -0700 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6F225C67-4264-4E28-A1E2-69CDFE321B16@mail.sermon-archive.info> <20190731224351.GA67809@geeks.org> To: Doug McIntyre X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zXN6179bz4YGv X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of srs0=ol51=v5=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info designates 71.177.216.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=srs0=ol51=v5=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.66 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.42)[-0.423,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:71.177.216.148:c]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; URIBL_RED(3.50)[arcweb.co.multi.uribl.com]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: sermon-archive.info]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[148.216.177.71.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.19)[-0.190,0]; HAS_ANON_DOMAIN(0.10)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.21)[asn: 5650(-1.01), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[bc979@lafn.org,srs0=ol51=v5=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5650, ipnet:71.177.216.0/23, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[bc979@lafn.org,srs0=ol51=v5=mail.sermon-archive.info=doug@sermon-archive.info]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 01:12:54 -0000 -- Doug > On 31 July 2019, at 15:43, Doug McIntyre wrote: >=20 > On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 06:11:59PM -0700, Doug Hardie wrote: >> I have a Lets Encrypt certificate my app uses for the clients to = validate me. However, I need to be able to validate the client's = identity using a client certificate. Lets Encrypt certificates can not = be used to create client certificates. So I need to be able to use a = self-signed certificate for the client certificate validation. I have = been digging around through nginx code to see what I could find, but I = am not sure it does that either. Any ideas on how to do this with = openssl? >=20 >=20 > How are you validating a clients identity? Through a web page? > An email? Logged into a shell? This is all in an application for this specific use. Both the client = and server are written by me. I have seen that page you reference below = and that leads me to believe nginx has solved the problem. I just = haven't been able to figure out where or how they do it in the code. I = have been able to get the server to use the validation callback to let = me validate the certificate parameters. It's not perfect as I haven't = figured out how to verify the certificate is valid yet. I can get the = fields I need from it for the application. The vast majority of the clients will be using cell phones. Dongles are = just not practical. The clients won't use them. A one-time store of = the certificate in the phone is better than passwords which they never = remember or use such trivial ones that it is not effective. >=20 > Openssl is a command line tool to manipulate/create/change SSL certs. = It can be used > to setup your own PKI infrastructure (although it is fairly fugly in = how to do it). >=20 > Google "Setup PKI with openssl" and you'll get 1000s of articles. Most = poor. >=20 > If you want to validate your clients connecting to a web page (since > you mention nginx), you can do google searches for "SSL client > authentication with nginx" and get pages like > = https://arcweb.co/securing-websites-nginx-and-client-side-certificate-auth= entication-linux/ > which is what I think you are trying to do. >=20 >=20 > I'm sure there are hundreds of other pages out there for Apache and > Nginx dealing with the subject. I've never really seen people really > enjoy the experience of doing client-side web authentication though.=20= >=20 > The new hotness is webauthn and a security dongle. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 03:22:14 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDE9AF5E4 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 03:22:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [IPv6:2001:470:0:19b::b869:801b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "xray.he.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zbFK6ygRz4fY2 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 03:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:TLSv1.2:Kx=ECDH:Au=RSA:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:18:49 -0700 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: David Christensen Subject: zfstools zfs-auto-snapshot issue Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 20:18:45 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 03:22:14 -0000 freebsd-questions: I have a FreeBSD SOHO server: 2019-07-31 19:09:20 toor@soho ~ # freebsd-version ; uname -a 11.2-RELEASE-p11 FreeBSD soho.tracy.holgerdanske.com 11.2-RELEASE-p11 FreeBSD 11.2-RELEASE-p11 #0: Tue Jul 2 21:24:25 UTC 2019 root@amd64-builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 It has ZFS pools and filesystems: 2019-07-31 20:14:56 toor@soho /var/log # zfs list | head NAME USED AVAIL REFER MOUNTPOINT bootpool 333M 499M 333M /bootpool soho_zroot 2.71G 8.43G 88K /soho_zroot soho_zroot/ROOT 1.47G 8.43G 132K none soho_zroot/ROOT/default 1.47G 8.43G 1.47G / soho_zroot/tmp 156K 8.43G 156K /tmp soho_zroot/usr 1.23G 8.43G 132K /usr soho_zroot/usr/home 464K 8.43G 464K /usr/home soho_zroot/usr/ports 1.23G 8.43G 1.23G /usr/ports soho_zroot/usr/src 132K 8.43G 132K /usr/src I have installed: 2019-07-31 19:17:21 toor@soho ~ # pkg query -x '%n %v' zfs zfstools 0.3.6_1 I have set the com.sun:auto-snapshot property on all pools and filesystems: 2019-07-31 20:14:59 toor@soho /var/log # zfs get -t filesystem com.sun:auto-snapshot | head NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE bootpool com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE local soho_zroot com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE local soho_zroot/ROOT com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/ROOT/default com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/tmp com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr/home com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr/ports com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr/src com.sun:auto-snapshot TRUE inherited from soho_zroot If I run zfs-auto-snapshot manually: 2019-07-31 19:22:09 toor@soho ~ # zfs-auto-snapshot -d -v frequent 20 zfs list -H -t filesystem,volume -o name,type,com.sun:auto-snapshot:frequent,com.sun:auto-snapshot,mounted -s name zfs list -r -H -t snapshot -o name,used -S name I do not see any snapshots: 2019-07-31 19:23:06 toor@soho ~ # ls -a /bootpool/.zfs/snapshot/ . .. 2019-07-31 19:23:35 toor@soho ~ # ls -a /soho_zroot/.zfs/snapshot/ . .. If I create a snapshot manually: 2019-07-31 19:23:40 toor@soho ~ # zfs snapshot -r bootpool@manual-snapshot-20190731-1924 It works: 2019-07-31 19:28:08 toor@soho ~ # ls -la /bootpool/.zfs/snapshot/ total 1 dr-xr-xr-x+ 3 root wheel 3 Jul 31 19:27 . dr-xr-xr-x+ 3 root wheel 3 May 23 22:21 .. drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 3 May 23 22:21 manual-snapshot-20190731-1924 I do not see any relevant messages under /var/log. I am unable to find any recent bug reports for zfstools: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=zfstools Zero bugs found. Any ideas? David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 07:51:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F9A5B69A8 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 07:51:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic302-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic302-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zjCg54jKz4M71 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 07:51:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: _xJ.msQVM1kPdtTcNTJU.rOUFo3G7qWEY5N8u677dRQvj0Cze24P5atKnjsODiR lAyUi37FgUwQo4ZT0XvYflo6YVCPZaNDWRDzSZ44.StoN3KwY9TA40RYvmOeRAE4kIhcldKyv8sO lnZgRcBYj5hbSjazOKvZRE.Zh4NZ4553iDXzXiErNJgvLSSzqjeqhSPIZ_LB1yYnzEofNL4pPLER jSkuVTcVLy6qfLK8VJis5palwF3pL6c1ax04W4lgpE3cZnLnaFhQJUJIY._75_XhHiD.w9rVlcsM lhGLk4lW8c.mwi9FXGL4W7SQYJ2ZnXyaBJDfM.HeZd7hVUzUqPLeh0Vih0l9hvYcg36OrvoxEieF jSlF4Q4_Vo.Mmri.BoHUhWx.9_nfq7MABlQroRUyVAH6Pyge9Hqml0sOZQtg9PPj775uTHw.Crx_ 7dSI2iiGAGaVdwjrQXAB0voTzIL9S96j1U07P8Nd59yf.Lv3OSrVsL.fJ3s_LLlCal6Hc499h0UJ yPE2QTMAdqn22aKeiaa3yfvSQz5tD_y0GOJvkImaVrtDa49HfwhhTnBzcDvQma9b2PZTRpsRLh97 5GjGj1xfRPQVWEas6UuLL146vLGraIRx4djW__yfOxVrEQvSCm84pJtKCEXX1GxTA0sQx..du2kM TAPPp7PcT1JEF27EuUqXftTKpyHvqojpm2Oe0lE4FH5OH1iALSaPQ1MyR56hd5JzkZlleaqER0Lp LExzw6CLD8eTC0K7MQYuqXiHc6XKC12LJ5gkXcIB71.uUw52B.RTd5LpFsrshyDlsmAn86CH69NO fimNg5JGGM1.s_yaVguecU.d0jpHQ3Xld8Azgl1tpzwOgpXjOPRS7fg95eUv8vQ5NLfjVO_mCN2H Bh74FmZQvjto2nUoc0LdyavG6SUSi2niy4TAawWaU3Teq9CJm8QQ5qq2ssbgHfKWLx.0RUgbvY_A XP6v3mJ.SmG3QDH1tpZxltwfDOZEPe1V1eB4vmoelKF.LPutAB0p21FslVoYG5vSl06wH1f4Aiyo AxUVY8aHX_QnExvMgDfXZsg3XxRW5AlWCREgYCjsDnfrx51jF_N2s18VAruyVb8JADDPbM10tC7s Krum04a5E3jILb_.EtKFNUYnwbt7fTQGGcZq3WAZMjyR1E4gNmgYLwS8lBXR97Nlv.bNs.hbB8mM pvOTPSgqbCRGkiEuR5YPLbdrFyClwZ2b57bgDEe.fttUb8VL0mujJlXLJkdgzNCW4mL.Lek7pUMS owUbeTnJMGzy_ARpIV5yNZHJwNalExRNIkS_HXoxh.ES1bRDA Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 07:51:08 +0000 Received: by smtp424.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID bfce452c849127df0be6dee0a1a6ed4a; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 07:51:07 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:51:06 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-ID: <20190801095106.12cc2e9b@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190731225535.5beaa890.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190731060613.0d940a32@archlinux> <20190731225535.5beaa890.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zjCg54jKz4M71 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.30 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yahoodns.net, mta6.am0.yahoodns.net, mta7.am0.yahoodns.net, mta5.am0.yaho odns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net,mta6.am0.yahoodns.net,mta7.am0.yahoodns.net,mta5.am0.yahoodns.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (4.18), ipnet: 87.248.110.0/24(2.53), asn: 34010(1.78), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.91)[0.914,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.89)[0.887,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[82.110.248.87.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 07:51:13 -0000 On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:55:35 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 05:06:52 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 12:16 AM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:16:44 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >> > >> > >You can have dual monitors with _one_ graphics card, >> > >[snip] today probably DVI and HDMI). >> > >> > Or HDMI for the new LCD + on demand VGA for an old CRT ;). >> > >> >> The Frankenstein version of DIY computing. > >Hey! If I didn't have a spare 21" 4:3 CRT, I wouldn't even be >able to read this! I'm a Frankenstein museum of forgotten and >reanimated computer hardware... ;-) I've got two 19" 4:3 CRTs and a folding ruler at hand. One of the 19" CRTs has got a depth of 45 cm, but the other has got a depth of just 39.5 cm. The one with a depth of 39,5 cm is ready for dual-head usage on demand, space for this monitor is no big deal, while I don't have the room to position the monitor with a depth of 45 cm. However, the minimal window size of Ardour doesn't fit into those 19" 4:3 screens at a reasonable resolution and my 23.8" 16:9 LCD display is an Energy-efficiency class A+ device, typical power consumption 11 W, maximum power consumption 44 W. So space isn't a consideration, but power consumption is. Scripts are ready to manage all usages that are more or less reasonable for the scope of applications. $ grep name .config/fbpanel/lcd-realignment | grep monitor name = HDMI2 LCD monitor 1920x1080 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor off name = HDMI2 LCD monitor 1920x1080 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1152x864 90Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor 1920x1080 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1440x960 86Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor 1920x1080 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1368x768 90Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor 1920x1080 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1024x768 60Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor off 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1152x864 90Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor off 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1440x960 86Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor off 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1368x768 90Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor off 16:9 and VGA1 CRT monitor 1024x768 60Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor 1024x768 "4:3"and VGA1 CRT monitor 1024x768 60Hz name = HDMI2 LCD monitor 1024x768 "16:9"and VGA1 CRT monitor 1024x768 60Hz The scripts not only change resolutions and frequency, but also ensure desktop consistency. De facto I don't use dual-head on demand, but I could, since it works, just using one Intel graphics. Apropos Frankenstein, the CRTs I used for my PCs aren't from the graveyard, but actually all are from bulk trash, I never bought a CRT for a PC. I just pay for the Atari ST's monitor and for my PC's LCD display. Apart from resoldering self-desoldert components after a while, I always got usable monitors from bulk trash. Unfortunately public bulk trash is disestablished, because of great nuisances caused by people from foreign nations. No, the city administration and almost all citizens aren't xenophobe, the situation became really unacceptable. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 09:28:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138B7B89C1 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:28:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic309-24.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic309-24.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zlNB4Ghfz4Rb3 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:28:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: yx3IATwVM1mqVUc0fbEK9paV6bDiHfYj22vsAI7jmvKjHGfaBiKQp6rKKMOfnyd fO4NhPb1wW.gLdpRDuzqbdem3UXgT.9mk5Q_Ig6hNQxRCdoDZ3HNlqi.1HDj6NH55uGvNt4VFV8Y .IOdPDQ9diJWq.r.cG.HDhtu9PM185VmGXCVjbkpjC_AHz4F4UqSxUehD98_qTcgx6IDJP4IgkTF Hf5atYrW_4uKtzypyz_TCkvS83i2N3wTSlhgAcV86RiNNDAAIGPqSwLU75cjqGU6fCbAzLB_CV.4 PIpQa4CqqTPOl3SI2erefPzeCKiKoJ3A.wEIl5RYh5fKHIX59MO330ESpxiF.ddjr8MCAzUivapM ZowXLzfGXaW3lCIRL1Rg.4ZR5t_flrvqZznejvbYaLml3VuGjafve7QRQetpc0yfarqN4SD6KGQm 8S8jfsab6UU.ik1AsPxH0fDkcILXmmEyGXqm_nCZUbxGEyawXyHuy8NZOdmfbkI1TnqaKxr7uRie dCZVjMqtmQ8L6xvtM4w9tx0wkK6siw5WmGOnCn0U2Dmvf9alQASN9tGK6QvjvZcoIObPlz0U6qb6 LAYQ3GneYFeECVruhaQQ81QfIv8h7_SWi6h2lS.YI0mPT6u0hfK9zJskaaDsYMEjq2EhW8Y3ccAI mO3PYyVXfxInBnXeWHDticS5cmur7orCHyDxCfdGp5Dy68CsKgAYb_8tyuaHaN1UM1Dev7extTIp b.icd55jLkY3icoKhP4G5JW4VMxbq9g6c_AugsSJkI74hLi1ROIdiUNHk.EjM_QKGDRr7mOSDoVh WfymBm4E7rUTyUMGAhxQlmgwXAr40NtE79nL7kLlT72DLIuHWUQjNXqB4mAFypITebbHWJ3FtFFD o_k9OgI8khW05an9LqGKfGIDJQOnBdtBfr4i1hQ.PDSFecunT1mzRxp.4VHSbt6.RMUZ9_rEMw79 Xox6F2.kcCADPYazVHY4iXxOf.OhqFqLTbW8YbLH3EOnpGU52TX7w8AD0WD.PimmvtSEUC1c4BPB v1hJM3g4yPHH3YL.Rg6f2w8wziX1mh26DNdJFFGkjCGnauuQgb8W39jNNYqwyeC6EoDf2lg9vi.Y j_grfiUsxtwaDMblaS.JsNjacdmaU2R54dkVzuvYO9QHwoy2Fko5ZE4O1TUD4aRGouedf5l5NceN PffExNVvdICL4aVoGE_i1urR3WYlS5dXAFWrGHa2zos5zoGOuNd02yBojYkgTlNWMAbEyB2JAyiD dby6tZbbQ7_jgrtLqOOADGg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:28:39 +0000 Received: by smtp417.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID d4593f62b905c70f1ec9181bf83ff4e7; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 09:28:37 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 11:28:37 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-ID: <20190801112837.60bec136@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190801095106.12cc2e9b@archlinux> References: <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190731060613.0d940a32@archlinux> <20190731225535.5beaa890.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190801095106.12cc2e9b@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zlNB4Ghfz4Rb3 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.21 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (6.78), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.26), asn: 34010(1.78), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.80)[0.796,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.91)[0.914,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[82.179.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[82.179.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 09:28:45 -0000 PS: My LCD is an EIZO FlexScan EV 2450. I'm pleased and would buy this LCD monitor again. If somebody considers to buy a new, not that expensive monitor, it's worth testing the EIZO. On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:51:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >I've got two 19" 4:3 CRTs and a folding ruler at hand. > >One of the 19" CRTs has got a depth of 45 cm, but the other has got a >depth of just 39.5 cm. Maybe those CRTs are just 18", and the depths seem to be 45 cm and 40 cm, however those 5 cm still could make a big difference. It's not easy to measure correctly. I'm just surprised that the monitors includes a "19" in their model names. LIFETEC / MEDION MD 1998 JB Belina 10 60 75 (12 19 03) Regarding https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildschirmdiagonale#Vergleichstabelle those monitors seems to be 18", but regarding https://www.multimediaforum.de/threads/217294489-xubuntu-mit-roehrenmonitor-kann-aufloesung-und-bildwiederholfrequenz-nicht-einstellen the MEDION is a 19" CRT and regarding the folding ruler the screen of the Belina is a little bit larger, but still would fit better to 18". From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 10:05:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8BCB94C3 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 10:05:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nvass@gmx.com) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zmC41XgCz4T5P for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 10:05:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from nvass@gmx.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1564653933; bh=2oLFrL3eva7Qwv3oxoT76d/JuoKcclH+nP08/5V++ms=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Sn7QK4LF6CwWrXm8RVp1e0MtOqQ/H7MBwGgX6qq71P8wlboZXvU5HT74P/Nsd5YSS 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Thu, 1 Aug 2019 12:48:06 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? Message-ID: <20190801124806.64aff78a@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190801095106.12cc2e9b@archlinux> References: <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> <1125579496.1306494.1563881223475@mail.yahoo.com> <20190723173126.2a26ee26@archlinux> <20190723204435.51c334d6@archlinux> <20190723235405.761f1663@gumby.homeunix.com> <1017844498.2766939.1564400418639@mail.yahoo.com> <699480245e5ffd26d5fb8b34efc8272a@fechner.net> <20190729210007.1be50ad8@moonstudio> <1757593433.2684240.1564453198466@mail.yahoo.com> <20190731011644.25ba77e0.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190731060613.0d940a32@archlinux> <20190731225535.5beaa890.freebsd@edvax.de> <20190801095106.12cc2e9b@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zn7w4sb9z4VnG X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.10 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (6.78), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.26), asn: 34010(1.78), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.69)[0.692,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.90)[0.904,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[82.179.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[82.179.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 10:48:15 -0000 On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:51:06 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >The scripts not only change resolutions and frequency, but also ensure >desktop consistency. That might be important to those who consider dual-head _on-demand_, too. The scripts also checks, if a monitor is connected. If I'm using the LCD and select to use the CRT, while the CRT is disconnected, the LCD is still used. IIRC if the CRT is connected, but turned off, there's no way to check this via command line. However, I'm favour of individual user scripts over any multi-monitor desktop environment tool. 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Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:51:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "xray.he.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zvsY3Q9Lz3JXS for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 15:51:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:TLSv1.2:Kx=ECDH:Au=RSA:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 08:51:09 -0700 Subject: Re: zfstools zfs-auto-snapshot issue To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: From: David Christensen Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 08:51:08 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zvsY3Q9Lz3JXS X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 184.105.128.27) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.50 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.40)[ipnet: 184.104.0.0/15(0.85), asn: 6939(-2.80), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[27.128.105.184.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:184.104.0.0/15, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 15:51:14 -0000 On 8/1/19 3:05 AM, Nikos Vassiliadis wrote: > I think the property's value should be true, not TRUE. 2019-08-01 08:38:04 toor@soho ~ # zfs set com.sun:auto-snapshot=true bootpool 2019-08-01 08:47:27 toor@soho ~ # zfs get all bootpool | grep snap bootpool snapdir hidden default bootpool usedbysnapshots 96K - bootpool snapshot_limit none default bootpool snapshot_count none default bootpool com.sun:auto-snapshot true local 2019-08-01 08:49:05 toor@soho ~ # /usr/local/sbin/zfs-auto-snapshot -d -v frequent 11 zfs list -H -t filesystem,volume -o name,type,com.sun:auto-snapshot:frequent,com.sun:auto-snapshot,mounted -s name zpool get -H -p -o name,property,value feature@bookmarks 2>/dev/null zfs snapshot -r bootpool@zfs-auto-snap_frequent-2019-08-01-08h49 zfs list -r -H -t snapshot -o name,used -S name 2019-08-01 08:49:23 toor@soho ~ # ls -l /bootpool/.zfs/snapshot/ total 1 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 3 May 23 22:21 manual-snapshot-20190731-1924 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 3 May 23 22:21 zfs-auto-snap_frequent-2019-08-01-08h50 You are correct -- thank you. :-) David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 16:29:30 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8080C1EF9 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 16:29:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from holgerdanske.com (holgerdanske.com [184.105.128.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "holgerdanske.com", Issuer "holgerdanske.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zwjj4zkVz3Pc9 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 16:29:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dpchrist@holgerdanske.com) Received: from 99.100.19.101 ([99.100.19.101]) by holgerdanske.com with ESMTPSA (ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:TLSv1.2:Kx=ECDH:Au=RSA:Enc=AESGCM(128):Mac=AEAD) (SMTP-AUTH username dpchrist@holgerdanske.com, mechanism PLAIN) for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:29:26 -0700 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: David Christensen Subject: zfstools zfs-auto-snapshot "KEEP" argument issue Message-ID: <7d828758-faeb-4afa-766d-4f1fe1cae635@holgerdanske.com> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:29:26 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 45zwjj4zkVz3Pc9 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dpchrist@holgerdanske.com has no SPF policy when checking 184.105.128.27) smtp.mailfrom=dpchrist@holgerdanske.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.50 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.40)[ipnet: 184.104.0.0/15(0.85), asn: 6939(-2.79), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[holgerdanske.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[27.128.105.184.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:184.104.0.0/15, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 16:29:30 -0000 freebsd-questions: Same machine as previous post, but with com.sun:auto-snapshot property case-sensitivity fixed: 2019-08-01 09:14:24 toor@soho ~ # zfs get -t filesystem com.sun:auto-snapshot | head NAME PROPERTY VALUE SOURCE bootpool com.sun:auto-snapshot true local soho_zroot com.sun:auto-snapshot true local soho_zroot/ROOT com.sun:auto-snapshot true inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/ROOT/default com.sun:auto-snapshot true inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/tmp com.sun:auto-snapshot true inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr com.sun:auto-snapshot true inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr/home com.sun:auto-snapshot true inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr/ports com.sun:auto-snapshot true inherited from soho_zroot soho_zroot/usr/src com.sun:auto-snapshot true inherited from soho_zroot zfs-auto-snapshot accepts two arguments -- INTERVAL and KEEP: 2019-08-01 09:17:49 toor@soho ~ # zfs-auto-snapshot Usage: /usr/local/sbin/zfs-auto-snapshot [-dknpuv] -d Show debug output. -k Keep zero-sized snapshots. -n Do a dry-run. Nothing is committed. Only show what would be done. -p Create snapshots in parallel. -P pool Act only on the specified pool. -u Use UTC for snapshots. -v Show what is being done. INTERVAL The interval to snapshot. KEEP How many snapshots to keep. Creating a snapshot with INTERVAL=foo works: 2019-08-01 09:11:22 toor@soho ~ # zfs-auto-snapshot foo 9 2019-08-01 09:13:23 toor@soho ~ # ls -l /bootpool/.zfs/snapshot/ | grep foo drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 3 May 23 22:21 zfs-auto-snap_foo-2019-08-01-09h13 But if I wait a minute and do another run, KEEP=9 is not honored (previous snapshot is removed, when it should have been kept): 2019-08-01 09:13:38 toor@soho ~ # zfs-auto-snapshot foo 9 2019-08-01 09:14:21 toor@soho ~ # ls -l /bootpool/.zfs/snapshot/ | grep foo drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 3 May 23 22:21 zfs-auto-snap_foo-2019-08-01-09h14 Also fails with single quotes: 2019-08-01 09:19:46 toor@soho ~ # zfs-auto-snapshot 'foo' '9' 2019-08-01 09:24:05 toor@soho ~ # ls -l /bootpool/.zfs/snapshot/ | grep foo drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 3 May 23 22:21 zfs-auto-snap_foo-2019-08-01-09h24 Any ideas? David From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 18:33:16 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB72C5489 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:33:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amelie@achieve-targated-rank.com) Received: from host.moon.ygto.com (host.moon.ygto.com [94.177.232.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45zzSW53Nqz44hC for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:33:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amelie@achieve-targated-rank.com) Received: from WS147 (unknown [223.179.138.153]) by host.moon.ygto.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E80BA9ABD for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 14:33:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Amelie Jones" To: Subject: Payment after Ranking Results? Wish Granted! 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From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 1 22:57:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9241A3B6D for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 22:57:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4605KR20Djz4MBT for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 22:57:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564700247; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=WCVCGX0poLiVkzWfpxW9iuBs63mGzNWp1/50akSwHqw=; b=q6WEF3y801N+3RvhiPCzjUP5sBGRJyamjTal54eXKjyPIOaoYytEjZRPSzemLD6DKX oplXgpJgadb1CorWnASXWDPSaxID/6vJTIGsTNRqpkdYS8yw01ekC+D/X5BYKSiCaHWP LRH/WD9fFCPfKfrnO8RQgl7SwqaB95oj75VYgIsNW8Jr3drySDkWn72I040d/XPhX+Ti 8o3pukdxEk3yZlZ5JBhAkizxjQcdlYtsZp3bhrl+3hjm4F/18JvFHJmNqGGwVtILGNaR jxTsFl+toyLhCAjRxzeUcfGpZeb6BuqoCA1YPhYSl7GBWZyAZ77ZON737Easyyknz9Fk YAOg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv71MvRV0V (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 00:57:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1htK0k-0000aK-FF; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:26 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1htK0k-0001T1-5X; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:26 +0200 From: hw To: Polytropon Cc: Robert Huff , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> (Polytropon's message of "Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:51:54 +0200") Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:12 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87h8705waf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4605KR20Djz4MBT X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=q6WEF3y8; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lee@adminart.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::1) smtp.mailfrom=lee@adminart.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.15 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.75)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.29), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 22:57:32 -0000 Polytropon writes: > On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:31:07 -0400, Robert Huff wrote: >> >> Polytropon writes: >> >> > > After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon >> > > (not to be confused with a German dictionary (which is also >> > > installed for just in case)), the GUI still remains in English. >> > >> > Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch >> > combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as >> > in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. >> >> It is my understanding that: >> >> a) sometime back, Mozilla did a major overhaul/upgrade of the >> interface between Firefox and addons. As a result, all >> third-party add-ons and many Firefox-provided add-ons >> stopped working. >> b) some of the add-ons (e.g. AdBlock) were rebuilt to the new >> spec; many were not, including my personal must-have PrefBar. > > Yes, that probably is the case. Luckily (and thanks to search > engines) I was able to find out how to change the interface > language _now_. :-) > > Sidenote: > > Among the affected add-ons weren't just the german language packs, > but also an "interface locale changer" add-on where you could change > the interface language easily. Now this functionality is part of > Firefox, but you need to explore _how_ it works, to prevent the > disappointment of not being able to change the interface language. > I think the same applies for Thunderbird. Ok and _how_ do you change the language in Thunderbird? Changing Firefox wasn't a problem, other than that I wish I could do that site-wide for all users rather than having to do it for each user. Why don't these programs just honor the language settings of the environment? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 00:08:53 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC694A4FCD for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 00:08:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4606vm2d03z4QDQ for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 00:08:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564704529; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=byzNbOtG6JMLmXMjHIQnM0PbL2LVnc+pBzHYf6DVhtY=; b=j+JCQ/0fhwtySTRb5gw+9Eh9wDBKEuCL4a1CuvGvkceDQc8yEvHDipM56sOl4xqCf4 SpUnMln+uzc5/Fv0QN8hCsndGIj/WWz1MHbqCpQugcDz8FjKtJBrNdCqLfLHxgpREEON oCDYGfU6a0OLIii3ooy3oxHCu/U0JC87eTeEknnTagUJdsr+H0Lxi9r3WvzZrtptlnT1 o5P+UztabiHiNail8lsvvaAMGQV7om7NfjthZSvZyYGUuuEuxi21iSb6ASNIducuUaXS 2/oqbja8la5x0PUHt6VYcpX58eQpUHn911WmubYRlLKyNWrnFdiykPV/Qb2qZiQCnn+B wkAg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv7208mV2i (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 02:08:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1htL7o-0000vH-Dr; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 02:08:48 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1htL7o-0001mg-0I; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 02:08:48 +0200 From: hw To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> (Polytropon's message of "Wed, 31 Jul 2019 01:27:54 +0200") Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 01:22:42 +0200 Message-ID: <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4606vm2d03z4QDQ X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=j+JCQ/0f; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lee@adminart.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::8) smtp.mailfrom=lee@adminart.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.15 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.75)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.27), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:08:53 -0000 Polytropon writes: > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:15:34 +0200, hw wrote: >> Hi, >> >> is there a way to get the GUI of thunderbird in German? > > Yes. But it depends on the version you're using (and the same > problem applies to Firefox). The hints I'm providing are therefore > derived from ongoing trouble (language-wise) with Firefox, so > check which and what applies to Thunderbird. :-) > > I'm not sure _which_ language variable has the desired effect, > but you can try setting those (example taken from ~/.cshrc): > > setenv LANGUAGE de > setenv LC_ALL de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LANG de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LC_ALL de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LC_MESSAGES de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LC_COLLATE de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LC_CTYPE de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LC_MONETARY de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LC_NUMERIC de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv LANG de_DE.UTF-8 > setenv MM_CHARSET de_DE.UTF-8 > > It could also be possible that one of those (taken from > ~/.login_conf) could be the one(s): > > me:\ > :charset=UTF-8:\ > :lang=de_DE.UTF-8: Thanks! IIRC, I've set 'lang' (or 'LANG') and MM_CHARSET; I'll try the others, too. > Additionally, check TB's configuration if you find a "built-in > means" to select the interface language (as it seems to be now > in FF). I already did and didn't find anything. > It is probably hidden somewhere in the preferences "pages" (no idea > why "modern" software tends to make things more complicated than it > should be). Don't get me started on these programs ... Nowadays, users are not sufficiently competent to have preferences ... > Also make sure to check it after upgrades which might cause TB to > switch back to English (same problem with FF). > > As I'm writing this, I guess _that hint_ is the thing you should > be looking for _first_. :-) I haven't upgraded them, this is a new installation of FreeBSD in a VM which I intend to use as an xrdp server for some kind of thin clients which I haven't entirely figured out yet. (I tried Thinstation and the images didn't turn out bootable, apparently because I somehow cloned only 2.5 or so of the 18GB and stuff seemed to be missing from the images I made ... It'll probably work sooner or later ...) >> After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon (not to >> be confused with a German dictionary (which is also installed for just >> in case)), the GUI still remains in English. > > Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch > combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as > in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. Then why doesn't it say so? >> Is this a general problem >> with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD? > > Not FreeBSD-specific. It's one of the typical problems of > "constant change" when dealing with Mozilla software... :-/ Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 03:02:13 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2ADDA7890 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 03:02:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460Bll4LRvz4X13 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 03:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.92.230]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M2w8Y-1hwggD46Gq-003IxK; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 05:02:06 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 05:02:00 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: Robert Huff , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190802050200.dd286e57.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <87h8705waf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> <87h8705waf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7UhANwPsSPBSvW2D6B6Y/JqTxMk2M8F1tW05hyhCbpo0zYQtnI4 8OKLY55pRYI+GaYDY5Cmsgu2ZjqyONQ/6yqOIQsxmWrM0oirDIfDWpqfXw3DZb3EnaFJyxe gBlipQTV7XkdYPbXRXCgEPzN/cm/I3TRVgJd6H4IZIZlDvIRuGugFXCsfwKo+SkzYItlDNc R71PdvoKhiwvNGysChi6A== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:LztGIYX5fbY=:KESP9zGNxU90N6+rOD5ILl up5cMJ6gPfj8V6hiiKHrbNeyP3rrpw6xUasEF8huUrzo6ZScru4P1qxOy5aRBeIpJpk4dcRTP F1hqd+meByhnv6lSThTRMKfkG8QP1IjJqmJWYdzKC601vTrj5RPOfWLx0ppCga9EbrWURVOck ANYkDnrZnW//zSDa8+Z5tJeo+jwKPf6YbofxZ3SS7Oy5GWhfEUN7CE6rR6TnlIQclCdP85IB0 wMcgyhdy/ptGYhSim9MxJshtPpSk+roBUW2CEV3nqxuz6Nk4P9QEJj1aWhVQcA3pSdlLEnrXA ng31roiGH2BQhUQCcrxsLnosbxEFsE7ExNlJ9VM4LeSi744pix/ke/misVMasInQx5QDjDAZe r5SB0GawpeheCQ9r2QOaN5pVa54wIdXSJRZuojT33pC794PYKis7Ph7B1mETkRDn2JfqJL593 H4YHQdD2uaNW9DOG+bD65qy0jmzInTfetCE3/HtHreO9UHasjn6TcDks6Vab7WHqvpSn3BpGN 1tk2oOi+fJ5c2IQodK3+r9DbOl6pCqQ9oiVo5K1kGjZ4fozfzFqKMAQB67VfLX4x5hbsCS68y ZOByWGfHqHQwerQahcxY8WmCvUYtt5YcdkYp+vhZsF1NDfPdnLEK08l5A8BplqqyZ54aoJbtl SUnefYzKAXQGa1nKUJiXQdtDS+9CFLYq1K51HzpOL4PwtQ6Uwrk/iyGhB4yWSC4/CnKcwUo9a lKOD9aoFcVvhccsZq996r6srVp6RNxXPlg6dx9hdMoxnVYhWBL7tRYkkuLE= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460Bll4LRvz4X13 X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.10) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.97 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[230.92.5.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.62)[0.618,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[10.17.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-0.05)[ip: (-1.09), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.45), asn: 8560(2.30), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 03:02:13 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:12 +0200, hw wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 23:31:07 -0400, Robert Huff wrote: > >> > >> Polytropon writes: > >> > >> > > After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon > >> > > (not to be confused with a German dictionary (which is also > >> > > installed for just in case)), the GUI still remains in English. > >> > > >> > Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch > >> > combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as > >> > in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. > >> > >> It is my understanding that: > >> > >> a) sometime back, Mozilla did a major overhaul/upgrade of the > >> interface between Firefox and addons. As a result, all > >> third-party add-ons and many Firefox-provided add-ons > >> stopped working. > >> b) some of the add-ons (e.g. AdBlock) were rebuilt to the new > >> spec; many were not, including my personal must-have PrefBar. > > > > Yes, that probably is the case. Luckily (and thanks to search > > engines) I was able to find out how to change the interface > > language _now_. :-) > > > > Sidenote: > > > > Among the affected add-ons weren't just the german language packs, > > but also an "interface locale changer" add-on where you could change > > the interface language easily. Now this functionality is part of > > Firefox, but you need to explore _how_ it works, to prevent the > > disappointment of not being able to change the interface language. > > I think the same applies for Thunderbird. > > Ok and _how_ do you change the language in Thunderbird? I do not have a Thunderbird instance where I can check. I assume (or conclude from Firefox) that there should be something in the settings. > Changing Firefox wasn't a problem, other than that I wish I could do > that site-wide for all users rather than having to do it for each user. > Why don't these programs just honor the language settings of the > environment? Yes, that is really a problem, because so many other programs do it the right way; even temporary invocation in a different language is not a problem for "old" programs. For example, if you set a system-wide variable that applies to all users, that language variable should be honored. I see multi-language support as a great feature especially in FreeBSD, where I can use programs in the language I prefer, and that might be vary among the programs running in one session (for example, Sylpheed uses the english language, while LibreOffice uses the german one). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 03:27:51 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E3BA7F19 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 03:27:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460CKL2Z83z4XtV for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 03:27:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1564716468; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=YXLeLMXREUB1QmocS9/feANDDzo=; b=P/1H43CpR0q1ZIJUclQFPeuBCWeNPTRL9hTCxq1v82sUtLKecc2OePiSpIO4uPMQ 1fnBVCd+Ft9tU/8k+PS1ltTbOPu5yf+KYmRNTVdx1phXqMpP8j+lnZg4TXQw/Y/Y SZaRHEKlfQawwgSiHu5sBzzbVUUW29wf0dn99FSeMYERzWbPpWL+hgZ5UJuJPAky 4Z8Ra7YYqLirYFaenEZckVNGKkEg7tp769RM9CCLLYh5wfTtX2EafyndT+thZ3W9 3/XNhewAeu3ZSbDcNkF1CDY5QF6e6R/t736Ra21ASetPdthKj8vHtCwcCOPn014N S7iWpnRlS8ITUs4fH3Y+SQ==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Zf5jyfdA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=FmdZ9Uzk2mMA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=mqZD4E5CTKUXjVJwbmoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:10234] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 24/43-03652-3BDA34D5; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 23:27:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23875.44467.255402.483061@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 23:27:47 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: hw Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.2 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460CKL2Z83z4XtV X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=P/1H43Cp; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.94 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-1.86)[ip: (-9.41), ipnet: 69.168.97.0/24(-0.22), asn: 36271(0.38), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.985,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[78.97.168.69.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 03:27:52 -0000 hw writes: > Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client? Define "usable alternative". Is this just about the interface language, or are there other features you need? Respectfully, Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 03:34:40 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6FF7A8270 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 03:34:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460CTC2z3vz4YJP for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 03:34:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.92.230]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M4b5s-1htw2G2Bew-001f5m; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 05:34:35 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 05:34:34 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190802053434.6babd0d0.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:9lp0a/99lKAkoswpi8yyKNK0u3En73fKNNgDYKnAV10HQswUv3n r3blngUtP5PEPDj1K2dZ6I8VUb1C+gVo/ByrB3r1u29nYuNCtAVJtL+UgWLZ8A8HIKcZXtS L/2LZzih+5qvbDNbRjQDJi55lnJiQ/O1La/xVDcrx9grBXp+6iaPhzsmnxuDSaF2nwkWPwc 315XCA8vTsccCSZGW52Nw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ur43ivwyDq4=:ixqWEkEoMz4Ee7siZ5QMuD d2Git4xRELxSys9pU/i+L35f2i6n+g5ulD81XemioXe2t+3OLtU265xAL7nJAB7RBiwq5tAQA PV/H2YQx7r6aNG83PlXahIlRAE6mwmP2171pk1XUFMtuieWQE2Ka1uZFAty0ldWRo774uu+G5 uEftSnqMz/R/ctRzVox3731P4XmTBwOGQ+3VtQNkj4bbE7uqdTMSJLYes8OlkiaPUDw8Zppu1 pM6IpiC6puqMPzeB+CFp6wBvK+Wga647NU4ctlnVCN+Sx+NqaHmyFDWAQqmwmKxRclSJsBKZ3 BDeljNPWXQn0akS6uPv5+IZX9EDbsvROIq0phBCmybSwYsx5CGW7Pf7nBh/waFgk4TOc7y1eC TY/BUHlwbzQI6rx4jvbxDf3eyK48VXb/tM9PHRj7bqrIPNS5v7ojVvrjv0y6rrs9s2cXWWuwB HqVCRhS3LiEAoBWTbnWBC9e7Pk+5vZHzR1NosZ63NnB/oMjM5X4Xb9vQpfELBuMzBgfsb3jVP dOv1qZSPoCVORpqU44n/FTOBo1dDX2UJAGfN+agS12cT0blFdCGlUvzTC0lceTT96XilFy37R N28pKEasiTg7gFnSJQJnN10HOCjWWtKzMCuxRh5G8zzu2mGkp2wHrXE9ouNy4CELPwRGVRBJN nOCqxXrxGZNXsTpfGztSLECedKfj3UAZFt5ZDDIrQzjDrlmfpenmYK5j8c8B2nNu3Ge682PTO lH9JL4JsoF84hvimEqkCOPH/9PODru6r6mGzksDjSZEa4VtD+NBp2Z8pHeg= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460CTC2z3vz4YJP X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 217.72.192.73) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.92 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[230.92.5.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.962,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[73.192.72.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.56)[ip: (0.37), ipnet: 217.72.192.0/20(0.13), asn: 8560(2.30), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 03:34:41 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 01:22:42 +0200, hw wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > > On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 00:15:34 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> is there a way to get the GUI of thunderbird in German? > > > > Yes. But it depends on the version you're using (and the same > > problem applies to Firefox). The hints I'm providing are therefore > > derived from ongoing trouble (language-wise) with Firefox, so > > check which and what applies to Thunderbird. :-) > > > > I'm not sure _which_ language variable has the desired effect, > > but you can try setting those (example taken from ~/.cshrc): > > > > setenv LANGUAGE de > > setenv LC_ALL de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LANG de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LC_ALL de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LC_MESSAGES de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LC_COLLATE de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LC_CTYPE de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LC_MONETARY de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LC_NUMERIC de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv LANG de_DE.UTF-8 > > setenv MM_CHARSET de_DE.UTF-8 > > > > It could also be possible that one of those (taken from > > ~/.login_conf) could be the one(s): > > > > me:\ > > :charset=UTF-8:\ > > :lang=de_DE.UTF-8: > > Thanks! IIRC, I've set 'lang' (or 'LANG') and MM_CHARSET; I'll try the > others, too. If I remember correctly, $LANG has precedence over $LC_* if set. However, I'm not sure every program conforms to this rule... and I'm questioning Mozilla software following established rules and consensus. ;-) > > Additionally, check TB's configuration if you find a "built-in > > means" to select the interface language (as it seems to be now > > in FF). > > I already did and didn't find anything. Hmmm... This is where I would have assumed the setting to be. The ability to change the language should be built-in. If I remember correctly, Thunderbird also has the ability to incorporate external extensions, add-ins, add-ons, or however they call them. Could it be possible that you need to install something from that source before you can use a non-EN language? Additionally, the -i18n package used by older Thunderbird versions to enable their multi-language features do no longer exist, which makes me believe that _now_ multi-language is part of the program. > > It is probably hidden somewhere in the preferences "pages" (no idea > > why "modern" software tends to make things more complicated than it > > should be). > > Don't get me started on these programs ... Nowadays, users are not > sufficiently competent to have preferences ... Options, settings, preferences... make them look like a web page, no "OK", "Cancel", "Apply" buttons; scramble all the settings, and change their location with every update so users will have something to play with... oh, and make sure all default settings are unusable... ;-) Okay. I installed it. I have the language settings as shown above, and the interface is in English. I didn't find any language setting in the preferences. Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Config Editor. Accept the risk. I checked for "language" and "locale", and nothing seems to be related to interface language. Search for "intl", and the setting intl.regional_prefs.use_os_locales == true, which would suggest to USE THE DAMN SYSTEM ENVIRONMENTAL SETTINGS, but hey, you know, we're more cleverer than you! So let's try the old fashioned way. Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Add-ons -> Add-ons -> Extensions. In the search field, enter "deutsch language pack", install the add-on. A window "activity manager" will open, which is empty. Close Thunderbird and start it again. Surprise: Still in English, except the date in the window's title bar. Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Add-ons -> Add-ons -> Languages. You'll see the "Deutsch (DE) Language Pack by Mozilla" is now installed. However, there is no way to enable it (only "Disable" and "Remove"). Setting "useragent.locale" to "de" (needs to be added in the config editor) doesn't have any effect. And you cannot remove that setting (no "Delete" option in the context menu, DEL key doesn't do anything), so that's useless as well. If you search for the add-on "locale switcher", there will be results, but they are not compatible with current Thunderbird versions. . . . I need to stop here. It makes me angry. I don't want to be angry, especially not because of stupid software. . . . So if you find out how to change Thunderbird back to German, please (!!!) write to this list for further documentation. It's a shame that all information I found with web search is either outdated or wrong (or both)... > >> After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon (not to > >> be confused with a German dictionary (which is also installed for just > >> in case)), the GUI still remains in English. > > > > Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch > > combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as > > in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. > > Then why doesn't it say so? Because it's left to the users to find out how to do "nonstandard" things like intending to change the interface language. Because all the world only the English always! ;-) > >> Is this a general problem > >> with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD? > > > > Not FreeBSD-specific. It's one of the typical problems of > > "constant change" when dealing with Mozilla software... :-/ > > Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client? Yes, Sylpheed is a lightweight and still very convenient and usable MUA. It supports IMAP (as well as SMTP and POP3, which is so obvious that I don't need to mention it). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 04:04:01 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F075A8991 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:04:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460D740kCmz4ZR4 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 04:03:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.92.230]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue107 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mgw7n-1iZs9Z20mD-00hPBJ; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 06:03:56 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 06:03:56 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190802060356.eebda021.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:N45Vpe14YYycfbze4aF3ni6xmlT9zwlIMJ/pkuKlnQNMTlFE3xF vzYuwND4a4X0NmgWCDF7Git+lOXkbH6SSGglPmCtjuRSCwo30bmZkHumAdK67QD3iVnSKTe vY2qNIC8i3uNYmsoZajl+R9tbxtDn8vNESutE5oka/4n7qNUYXAv0SC8umf8J/GYbAIpy6m qlbvii+0XXH+qR+0YcUdA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:b0+aUvEZ+aY=:FHi2qksQxA1aLIKPA34Ofq bT4fWFOV0oSTxAPRh/XdvL2nJ5uOlGDNbpc/Iy8I76A3tiDKI4IjbKAW29vOF/aOv5NNq8iHY iEpssQE3uK2BD/XY2lnJ+Pyxi/MgZBkCKBQ5oEC75GQbgqgzZAOAWLWu+MwJkTP3bSR5bG9JC v5tRLSIDNv2Wx6rhwTerEyv8ow/rZMp/gszS+xdZwcnSTu0s/9N1DtfRcAlp3iIepalaxXqF1 Z7iLn108jhsjNouvAaQP7OKeuze5wrMfISCljSrphpwPVo0HkJqT7CONWGM4mIaOBe3ymHQrj V3zYmxvZP7hwJIbqrRvzrTCYzwp3jpFo9W6G5NQptwuQRsfAslrhUvUPVqi5AMOUKZQ4yu9dx DWfDCKZsy+aB5GAVKfxMUZuQGrf3uMCuRlm9+hseZKpnhHcxpTX05XUYWNtVCWYnmkRNgREGb zUHBUfTrEQYNaAvjtRLqXTrN76V5+u7GPYpjF7iWrBkXeiYQk5O793R4Kz7/zxBshalNOGiMw 8am1lR1H/J2raaDyu8uzPWM4cS11Dty2loLvJ2lIe0E8/k0m/qSxR6wDgaExw/tiEb/waMhUD fsEITNzMBfEr10ZZNVWuknZC7OSCcSEZeD7D5XHTMpln481bQ6BfXJz0dFHQ03YpKgPLrj5Ow cry8/QM7a5A81kJhnDsKxupvS5Anbw+iJOhCJEqKChVL6LDbUWah3t0DwJOVV9HwB/jSqANYU Z9cQz+CBYgpH7LVfjlacekSyP85sdOpPyBtsf2TyEz9YIikx34oTyOH0Rao= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460D740kCmz4ZR4 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.13) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.41 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[230.92.5.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.84)[0.842,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[13.17.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.17)[ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.45), asn: 8560(2.30), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 04:04:01 -0000 Praise me! Praise me! :-) With some more search engineering I found a way that works. It works _at the moment_. It's so stupid that by using your brain in a normal manner you never would have come up with such a stupid idea... Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Preferences -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Config Editor and accept the risk. Now add a new entry of type "string". The entry's name shall be: intl.locale.requested It's value shall be empty. Yes, you need to add a setting that has no actual value (except you consider empty string a value, which is acceptable). Restart Thunderbird. And now in German, please. :-) PS. Let's see how long this hack works. Probably when the next Thunderbird version will be released, the trouble with the interface language start again... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 17:11:35 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEC6EB7498 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 17:11:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from coco@executive-computing.de) Received: from mail.moehre.org (mail.moehre.org [195.96.35.7]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460Ybp4FGgz4GYb for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 17:11:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from coco@executive-computing.de) Received: from mail.moehre.org (unknown [195.96.35.7]) by mail.moehre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D491B3EA91 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 19:11:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.972 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.972 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-1, AWL=0.028, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=disabled Received: from mail.moehre.org ([195.96.35.7]) by mail.moehre.org (mail.moehre.org [195.96.35.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SDQHhA5bAaUl for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 19:11:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (p5B2F1337.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.47.19.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: coco@executive-computing.de) by mail.moehre.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1AB43EA8B for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 19:11:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 19:11:20 +0200 From: Marco Steinbach To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Lenovo T420 / Centrino 6300 Wifi regression 11 -> 12 ? Message-ID: <20190802191120.00000c20@executive-computing.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460Ybp4FGgz4GYb X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of coco@executive-computing.de designates 195.96.35.7 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=coco@executive-computing.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.97 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.17)[0.172,0]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[executive-computing.de]; IP_SCORE(-0.00)[country: DE(-0.01)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[55.19.47.91.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8354, ipnet:195.96.32.0/19, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 17:11:35 -0000 Hi. Using 11.1-RELEASE/amd64, up to and including 11.3-STABLE/r350505, the Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 in my T420 works flawlessly. I was able to associate (WPA2-PSK, CCMP) and get an IPv4 address via DHCP. With 12, the 6300 associates, but I don't get an IP address. Configuring a fixed address also doesn't allow me to communicate with any other host on the network. Sniffing on the T420s local wlan0 interface, I can see the machine is trying to send out dhcp/arp requests, but does not get an answer. Sniffing on the wireles interface on the AP (Linksys WRT3200ACM running OpenWRT 18.06.4 r7808-ef686b7292) only shows LLC packets coming from the T420 -- no dhcp/arp requests. If I configure a fixed address on the T420, and then ping that from a host on my copper network, the source ARP shows up in the T420s ARP table correctly, and IP traffic works as expected between the two. I'm using the GENERIC kernel on 11 and 12. I've tried a clean install of 12-RELEASE to no avail. I've compiled 12-STABLE/r350464 from source, no change in behaviour. Trying other T420s, trying to connect through a different WRT3200ACM, also running OpenWRT, didn't help either. I've searched the mailing lists and the PRs, but couldn't find anything resembling this -- I ended up randomly trying some of the hints (e.g. configure -bgscan), but none of them worked for me. Anyone else having trouble with 12 and the 6300 Wifi in a T420 ? And if you don't, please ping me anyway -- that way I know it has to be something on my end. rc.conf: hostname="bleh.foo.bar" wlans_iwn0="wlan0" ifconfig_wlan0="WPA ssid ABC SYNCDHCP" sshd_enable="YES" dumpdev="AUTO" zfs_enable="YES" Boilerplate wpa_supplicant.conf: network={ ssid="ABC" psk="xx" } MfG CoCo From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 20:27:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE17BBAAFF for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5301::11]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460dxS4gnqz4Sgt for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564777625; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=wdzV/xDWFA3d0wuFYDo9j7YtwHh9ya12cNaUodGQmWg=; b=MKBeDn2FjxoGHwxeQbt3X7+VyTG2ml9mONhqsscqfZJGKuSYVboh9T9CZYCMFlyJ5o oCOZBeP3KGLLVS5HBrCwh0+rz5hhS0/D29U7iSm36ln8MaQr8fx47hsd7iaVbPSCqg/o 5xQ0Dvk0w4zCL0E5msVdCtkcX5GhWEmOAFDuhKyNSrE2qW9NoeYKnanEweDjamYOWRFo MkG6A31NYtxlLWv9tHLe8K8EefULRvnWpiAf/C/ggRB1MV3I7QCb6nK1ElNXTCb+WEcN dJS+bacbnpirBk1UzwGlx6iroQ6gKlbzis2zK1VoNroBwAnGaiS9SMRFfn/Z0eGmgldc glMw== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv72KR5ZB8 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 22:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-00007A-PR; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-0001Jc-Nn; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 From: hw To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <20190802060356.eebda021.freebsd@edvax.de> (Polytropon's message of "Fri, 2 Aug 2019 06:03:56 +0200") Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:20:40 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87tvaz8gkn.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802060356.eebda021.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460dxS4gnqz4Sgt X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=MKBeDn2F; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lee@adminart.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::11) smtp.mailfrom=lee@adminart.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.852,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.74)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.26), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:09 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:09 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:09 -0000 Polytropon writes: > Praise me! Praise me! :-) praises you ... > With some more search engineering I found a way that works. > > It works _at the moment_. > > It's so stupid that by using your brain in a normal manner > you never would have come up with such a stupid idea... > > Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Preferences -> Preferences -> > Advanced -> Config Editor and accept the risk. Now add a > new entry of type "string". The entry's name shall be: > > intl.locale.requested > > It's value shall be empty. Yes, you need to add a setting > that has no actual value (except you consider empty string > a value, which is acceptable). > > Restart Thunderbird. > > And now in German, please. :-) Thank you very much, this actually works! :) You have to have the language pack installed for this to work, though. > PS. Let's see how long this hack works. Probably when the > next Thunderbird version will be released, the trouble with > the interface language start again... I'll still try Sylpheed ... It's been around for a while now, and I'm curious. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 20:27:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC57BAAFD for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5301::5]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460dxS58Gfz4Sgx for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564777625; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=PKvJDMi9rosIFrinFm9Z7HjdKeyr3j5cpHBqHG1NpUg=; b=ScaPj1niLJCSlSoMURp8JAEHz4j4aTyjob9PNmxagzjag/B1epl83scl21WaC2CDiq 7R6uilYfvlcKhlaV450k78dMtyft9PDSbBuzLjb+jYt3QZRNHjcxbZdppa8ys2uiEKv8 eQvL8huoVq6k8vmpBVaFRnqx8Q/o+PtFMlafW42lU34lMlC8iGNm+vmO+aEr2jGRM6v6 uRk017aPOgKFp1uTfxYm7FV1w+KaWem19EdkoAfBub2jOp4vjIne6owQyz6twMsrd4hb iTirw4oFkvcLX1QlBTeHmo+RkmJ+oAYHj91diaVTTiUmswZdwrJ3pyfTF3DiVu87O2pV 51lg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv72KR5ZB6 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 22:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-000072-Kk; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-0001JS-J4; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 From: hw To: Robert Huff Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <23875.44467.255402.483061@jerusalem.litteratus.org> (Robert Huff's message of "Thu, 1 Aug 2019 23:27:47 -0400") Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:49:17 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <8736ij9wle.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <23875.44467.255402.483061@jerusalem.litteratus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460dxS58Gfz4Sgx X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=ScaPj1ni; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lee@adminart.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::5) smtp.mailfrom=lee@adminart.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.879,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.74)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.26), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:09 -0000 Robert Huff writes: > hw writes: > >> Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client? > > Define "usable alternative". Is this just about the interface > language, or are there other features you need? It means something that users can use who have no clue what they're doing; yet they need to be able to read and write emails (despite they never figured out how to write emails) and --- imagine that! --- _print_ them, including attachments. It also needs to work reliably. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 20:27:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE1D2BAB01 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5301::10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460dxS4kXbz4Sgv for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564777625; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=t1izCrCb132w4s4cUA2bl0xtd5bjepch15K4aiIgclw=; b=CH4maHLw0EiA5c7YBBIe/ATTQq8OM3+rFcvPUCtZvhDcUOx/QXodVLA8CHTVz4RSjC 0MXxSmUQi/9fqRHkRXvTUl2OvJyKa9X3lQz9ocdYn0pOW/6ZFfF6UNWwyQVTxoX2DA05 UwRufM0J1lIug/lXVSCGBBF7pZak6n2q7/vtoytnVZ8TvSa2ggYQIoRdy66aEruyBz9r kdcEIiXC/lQLWPxGkjivgt8t2LQTAOi/r7sNQnQRjTs9Gnb5TEfYF62RNN7y1zHF82ed AC0ich5wuao0s9H0lwetQHKFB5etpkPinrsT1FDLSXiuMcRSYjpErunzifCQOyFDzU9J RFVg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv72KR5ZB7 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 22:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-000076-N5; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-0001JX-LQ; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 From: hw To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <20190802053434.6babd0d0.freebsd@edvax.de> (Polytropon's message of "Fri, 2 Aug 2019 05:34:34 +0200") Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:10:56 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87y30b8h0v.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802053434.6babd0d0.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460dxS4kXbz4Sgv X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=CH4maHLw; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lee@adminart.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::10) smtp.mailfrom=lee@adminart.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.69 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.851,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.74)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.26), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:09 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:09 -0000 Polytropon writes: > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 01:22:42 +0200, hw wrote: >> Polytropon writes: >> > [...] > > If I remember correctly, $LANG has precedence over $LC_* if set. > However, I'm not sure every program conforms to this rule... and > I'm questioning Mozilla software following established rules and > consensus. ;-) Right, the programmers seem to be stupd kids who can't do anything but play with dumbphones. >> > Additionally, check TB's configuration if you find a "built-in >> > means" to select the interface language (as it seems to be now >> > in FF). >> >> I already did and didn't find anything. > > Hmmm... This is where I would have assumed the setting to be. > > The ability to change the language should be built-in. If I > remember correctly, Thunderbird also has the ability to incorporate > external extensions, add-ins, add-ons, or however they call them. > Could it be possible that you need to install something from > that source before you can use a non-EN language? That's what I did. The whatever-it's-called does nothing other than showing up in a list of whatever-they're-called where it pretends that it can be enabled and disabled. I installed it twice and it still doesn't work ... > Additionally, the -i18n package used by older Thunderbird > versions to enable their multi-language features do no longer > exist, which makes me believe that _now_ multi-language is > part of the program. Hm. Perhaps it works when I remove the whatever-it's-called. >> > It is probably hidden somewhere in the preferences "pages" (no idea >> > why "modern" software tends to make things more complicated than it >> > should be). >> >> Don't get me started on these programs ... Nowadays, users are not >> sufficiently competent to have preferences ... > > Options, settings, preferences... make them look like a web page, > no "OK", "Cancel", "Apply" buttons; scramble all the settings, > and change their location with every update so users will have > something to play with... oh, and make sure all default settings > are unusable... ;-) Not only that, there are lots of other details, see above. And there aren't many settings left, that's another problem. > Okay. > > I installed it. I have the language settings as shown above, and > the interface is in English. I didn't find any language setting > in the preferences. > > Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Config Editor. > Accept the risk. I checked for "language" and "locale", and nothing > seems to be related to interface language. Search for "intl", and > the setting intl.regional_prefs.use_os_locales == true, which would > suggest to USE THE DAMN SYSTEM ENVIRONMENTAL SETTINGS, but hey, you > know, we're more cleverer than you! > > So let's try the old fashioned way. > > Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Add-ons -> Add-ons -> Extensions. > In the search field, enter "deutsch language pack", install the > add-on. A window "activity manager" will open, which is empty. > Close Thunderbird and start it again. Surprise: Still in English, > except the date in the window's title bar. > > Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Add-ons -> Add-ons -> Languages. > You'll see the "Deutsch (DE) Language Pack by Mozilla" is now > installed. However, there is no way to enable it (only "Disable" > and "Remove"). > > Setting "useragent.locale" to "de" (needs to be added in the > config editor) doesn't have any effect. And you cannot remove > that setting (no "Delete" option in the context menu, DEL key > doesn't do anything), so that's useless as well. sounds like what I did > If you search for the add-on "locale switcher", there will be > results, but they are not compatible with current Thunderbird > versions. > > . > > . > > . > > I need to stop here. It makes me angry. I don't want to be angry, > especially not because of stupid software. Be careful or we will be called trolls. Nowadays, you just /have/ to click on all the like buttons regardless how much something sucks; otherwise you're a troll. > So if you find out how to change Thunderbird back to German, > please (!!!) write to this list for further documentation. It's > a shame that all information I found with web search is either > outdated or wrong (or both)... right I guess I can get away with Thunderbird in English. I'll have to tell the users --- and it's true --- that there is no way to get it in German. Otherwise, I could try Evolution, but I don't want to have that kind of trouble. >> >> After installing and enabling a German language pack as an addon (not to >> >> be confused with a German dictionary (which is also installed for just >> >> in case)), the GUI still remains in English. >> > >> > Those add-ons don't seem to work anymore. Version mismatch >> > combined with improper or missing signing (same trouble as >> > in FF). It seems they aren't needed anymore. >> >> Then why doesn't it say so? > > Because it's left to the users to find out how to do "nonstandard" > things like intending to change the interface language. Because > all the world only the English always! ;-) and right handed, of course But when you use the trackball with your left hand, you suddenly notice how wrong all the GUIs are designed. The old X programs can have the scroll bar on the left no problem, but all the new stuff is so great because it's immature and you have to click the like buttons nonetheless (even if you can't reach them because they're at odd locations). >> >> Is this a general problem >> >> with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD? >> > >> > Not FreeBSD-specific. It's one of the typical problems of >> > "constant change" when dealing with Mozilla software... :-/ >> >> Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client? > > Yes, Sylpheed is a lightweight and still very convenient and > usable MUA. It supports IMAP (as well as SMTP and POP3, which > is so obvious that I don't need to mention it). Hm. I'll try that out, thanks. If that is in German, the users can decide what causes them more confusion: the same program they're used to in English but German or a new program they've never used, but in German. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 20:27:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC7BBAAFE for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5300::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460dxS4KMMz4Sgs for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564777625; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=13xGAOFDCdQ2njHx/FrHHVbdNL7j2XyAD0aVjV9jwW4=; b=lsLN6oZI+H0xhD5z0rUZuW3cxvQgUELP5Cf+pZcthM6++vuZo/NPiE3T+899jbpF4H 2sLzVIyGTUCAtbOWaS0waKIaU638roB4dZquxehYrGyKLUUrACqZkTROEw8XV4ToHOld XdjX2YVEq7urTAohxlkcS13yAR7z3wmrGYoeyxZdKiMt+VMHVQ/YLSl6hIBL01OJNO04 VkIggns6IoWCMmKoekM8fZc0vECCDaEykwRKCY3FX6UHyEnt4clmr3mHEXV9tVrfkn7v 1OA/r7cCpGFn+/V9hAU948mCwEOYJ/l+TxEfQ9hJuq0MzQrDm3pXTfiGOXLntBlDIJ1e JuXQ== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv72KR5ZB5 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 22:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-00006y-JF; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-0001JN-8q; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 From: hw To: Polytropon Cc: Robert Huff , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? In-Reply-To: <20190802050200.dd286e57.freebsd@edvax.de> (Polytropon's message of "Fri, 2 Aug 2019 05:02:00 +0200") Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:44:15 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <877e7v9wts.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> <87h8705waf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802050200.dd286e57.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460dxS4KMMz4Sgs X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=lsLN6oZI; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lee@adminart.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::2) smtp.mailfrom=lee@adminart.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.72 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.879,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[2.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.74)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.26), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:09 -0000 Polytropon writes: > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:12 +0200, hw wrote: >> Polytropon writes: > [...] >> Changing Firefox wasn't a problem, other than that I wish I could do >> that site-wide for all users rather than having to do it for each user. >> Why don't these programs just honor the language settings of the >> environment? > > Yes, that is really a problem, because so many other programs do > it the right way; even temporary invocation in a different language > is not a problem for "old" programs. For example, if you set a > system-wide variable that applies to all users, that language > variable should be honored. I see multi-language support as a > great feature especially in FreeBSD, where I can use programs > in the language I prefer, and that might be vary among the > programs running in one session (for example, Sylpheed uses the > english language, while LibreOffice uses the german one). Libreoffice seems to be bad as well because you have to go into the settings and change it before you get the language you have already set. I usually don't notice whether it's English or German, but the users will freak out as if it would make a difference (which it doesn't because they don't know what they're doing anyway). This kinda reminds me of Gnome with which it is impossible to even add a program starter. It's already entirely useless because it doesn't even have a usable window manager, but who would expect that you can't do something basic like adding a start button or a menu entry. I had to switch a machine ever to KDE because of that. There's just nothing better than fvwm ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 20:27:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5BF8BAB06 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de (mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de [IPv6:2a01:238:20a:202:5301::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.smtp.rzone.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460dxS4mnJz4Sgw for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:27:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lee@adminart.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1564777625; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=vS0SLRaqoHDnkl1f7c7SRx62Tw3f5AFLvOdwE5g3xzo=; b=d75CYrF2DsrXba/7HzCAZBO/4fVmhwG4sbjONZTmTXUZV9ZXwKlZl9TuMiknq5DcP2 BgDLQkjf/YXjfgU70kvn8d3rpZ/zmYBOJTRhAFN4DrdV9l98+mLS02BQ1CiZWkJWIVj6 Jz8Uu6ZZ0BHCt6ZOhc9/yYQ5tcu63R2tr+CeQf2UGCcvEFNgnlEZi48D988Xtp60CK6G Sh4dNgXG8gp0CjSLKE2gsR62y1Lm5K7Nn2+t1C35dHbd+MNynO/5BXioRFCeVzWNNqw0 LosMwmEKwpPJRhXaXFG9R/Fw9MmDX2F6YHqUxjb38rQz6bQuckoQRHnMHWsoD4TBnYGh 3YWQ== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+ARdaXvxIDf7nlw=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.24 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e0059dv72KR5ZB9 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 22:27:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-00007E-Rm; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 Received: from lee by toy.adminart.net with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hte8m-0001Jh-QB; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:27:04 +0200 From: hw To: Kamila =?utf-8?B?U291xI1rb3bDoQ==?= Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: for how long can I expect the update servers to be slow? In-Reply-To: ("Kamila \=\?utf-8\?B\?U291xI1rb3bDoSIncw\=\=\?\= message of "Wed, 31 Jul 2019 10:28:29 +0200") Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:26:47 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87pnln8gag.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <875znkcxlo.fsf@toy.adminart.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460dxS4mnJz4Sgw X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=adminart.net header.s=strato-dkim-0002 header.b=d75CYrF2; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lee@adminart.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::9) smtp.mailfrom=lee@adminart.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.69 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[adminart.net:s=strato-dkim-0002]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[adminart.net]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[adminart.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.848,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[9.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1.0.3.5.2.0.2.0.a.0.2.0.8.3.2.0.1.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6724, ipnet:2a01:238::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[hw@adminart.net,lee@adminart.net]; IP_SCORE(-0.74)[ipnet: 2a01:238::/32(-3.26), asn: 6724(-0.45), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:27:10 -0000 Kamila Sou=C4=8Dkov=C3=A1 writes: > Hi, > >> are the update servers still overwhelmed, or is there something else >> wrong? >> >> >> root@cdebsd:~ # pkg install xrdp emacs-nox cde >> [...] >> Number of packages to be installed: 116 >> >> The process will require 2 GiB more space. >> 335 MiB to be downloaded. >> >> Proceed with this action? [y/N]: y >> [1/116] Fetching xrdp-0.9.10_2,1.txz: 100% 404 KiB 46.0kB/s 00:09 >> [2/116] Fetching emacs-nox-26.2,3.txz: 15% 6 MiB 8.2kB/s 15:03 > ETA >> [0] 0:pkg* "cdebsd.adminart.net" 23:46 > 29-Jul-19 >> >> >> About 20 minutes after starting this, the emacs-nox package has 90% >> arrived ... > Random guess: any chance you are going over IPv6 here? In my location, I > always get reasonable speeds over IPv4, but often (though not always) get > very low speeds over IPv6. I have not had much time to investigate this > issue, but it seems that it doesn't depend on the ISP in my case, as > tunnelling over different IPv6 providers produces the same results. I'm forced to use the bad router from the ISP because there is no alternative due to the technology they're using, and despite I'm getting ip6 addresses, that stupid router doesn't support anything, and thus it can't do prefix delegation. So I can't use ipv6. The bridge the FreeBSD VM is connected to has, IIRC, only a link-local ipv6 address (starts with fe80) that was assinged automatically. If that would cause problems, I'd expect other downloads to be affected as well, and they aren't. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Aug 2 20:30:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9DDBACD8 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:30:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460f1N4NbFz4SsT for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 20:30:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1564777833; x=1567369833; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=XgGFgW8e84Ba/53NNfelhosKvFNlWK9kY37bLnnb+QE=; b=qDw05ejlvxQkLMHdBHfpgOOa02mdfqFup/DI/jXjwe+y245FbRHNKM2EZ5rPAVFpmq2jxklg1F8Ex4RgI3GkYjo70ZRvnmYUHy2v4kZq7y8OrH4kaia5SRKjUnA7ZxnZJFvG51n5BNkL+SHYTYKzW9yuXiq5dj/j/W9FlgQKGac= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjcwMDAwMDE4ZGVkNGEuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.189.1]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 16:30:27 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r1.us-east-2.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Fri, 2 Aug 2019 16:30:27 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1hteC1-000A0b-UK for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:30:26 +0100 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 21:30:25 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190802213025.884985d57dbfd7bf20ae4cd5@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <87tvaz8gkn.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802060356.eebda021.freebsd@edvax.de> <87tvaz8gkn.fsf@toy.adminart.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460f1N4NbFz4SsT X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=qDw05ejl; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.98 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.18)[0.178,0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.20)[ip: (-0.55), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.23), asn: 7381(-0.17), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 20:30:33 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:20:40 +0200 hw wrote: > I'll still try Sylpheed ... It's been around for a while now, and I'm > curious. I've been happy with it for many years now. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Aug 3 02:00:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E23CA27B2 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:00:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460nKr5wZnz3H86 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:00:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.36.217]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N8XgH-1iOa3k3OF7-014RU7; Sat, 03 Aug 2019 04:00:09 +0200 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:00:09 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190803040009.291039df.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <877e7v9wts.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> <87h8705waf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802050200.dd286e57.freebsd@edvax.de> <877e7v9wts.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1954I92dIzk9lipqmJ/zDcxLXVVNV4SI2BGtgLSAgd3ZNnbB6c3 Wup+t/Gp5JGnFDMkkEDSn+iW35GzQ3Cc+BW7WLbEY2k4UXfdFM8jbM/jl88muArwc3Tz/Ie +dezZkxkzjKalEnIIRxRuk2i0OsxHOeY+LfEM6p54unMfXl9BptwoxyntKKCt4z0iGglClv YUxbjwACRUnwLQb5hCQCA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Tbse4QHJ6lA=:ECXMJg68PuQ+iYYiPBDAwT bA4UZJ5ekhMPFRkvsaezfqQw/iO1zEa+eRRYK5ElXkrFmL1DXW8fEscnB4bsNswvM6J+J2FbG +cYkYhHoqadZKGSSnemO8pCee2yMJQ7yWed+TICcKK20uxwxEEFzBSh7N9agxs14wIyIwg3vH /yMgqTaYWErM4vDj8Py6xwpCve4Hzg9S5MrC0Y+FHSqHZK0MrQy2+uHUWhqWAv8QT9fL0gBsT LmaUFi/cNNbPVWZlUx9ry5vkGo+TnZaJ9gSauRyEcq5a13yVO6IGQKtGJKUW0mozciBGSzEzK jwB/ZUKhrB9XuOvwnyaAS/l6JF34cRALKfZeKVLqnhdKckMjumYQz2kKo2FtGCoHy3a1lIYx5 P8TiUCerKsM/iizMTGjqZyHgJ4Z71kDnX/osUG/+ggoMfz6fHrX8de3b614/SPYGPkPjT9eex +UTPaDKwVIPpTLOumrZkMSgN9NOagHxYAqJ2PAjG6+fQ0NM049v2M0buxoJo8Ngk1o0euxKs/ Yn9YypVnbsD9Uotz1uTLzTNFcHZmaPtYUeBwOFEfwIvd5Lr5NaNIyMZUi5MFifXW3qV5r0NFf KpR0exrC+y+e4Pfjkrpa6huqDFMxptxH9ilQnnJz6flJiZjJnGpxk2f7ePWLTTlUPxcNJ4fXL tgHiRhJ3HfJKu33Rb0TJKCBiQz815Im5ugx7hjeN+466iilqgYf3keCaBxXXzt5nmIfmPCd2e z/wutbLlS5rorShtyM4ZIf3lV0LHUel3Cvsw6+9Yth+ZcaQq/kpV89VPoKo= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460nKr5wZnz3H86 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.187) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.73 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.36.12.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.89)[0.888,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[187.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[187.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.44)[ip: (1.33), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2019 02:00:18 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 21:44:15 +0200, hw wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 00:57:12 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Polytropon writes: > > > [...] > >> Changing Firefox wasn't a problem, other than that I wish I could do > >> that site-wide for all users rather than having to do it for each user. > >> Why don't these programs just honor the language settings of the > >> environment? > > > > Yes, that is really a problem, because so many other programs do > > it the right way; even temporary invocation in a different language > > is not a problem for "old" programs. For example, if you set a > > system-wide variable that applies to all users, that language > > variable should be honored. I see multi-language support as a > > great feature especially in FreeBSD, where I can use programs > > in the language I prefer, and that might be vary among the > > programs running in one session (for example, Sylpheed uses the > > english language, while LibreOffice uses the german one). > > Libreoffice seems to be bad as well because you have to go into the > settings and change it before you get the language you have already set. I don't remember that I did something like that. Maybe because I installed "de-libreoffice" explicitely? > I usually don't notice whether it's English or German, but the users > will freak out as if it would make a difference (which it doesn't > because they don't know what they're doing anyway). Same here. I prefer the english interface language because the german translation often is incomplete (english menu items among german ones) or wrong or missing (especially regarding error messages). The only programs I really _want_ to be in German are LibreOffice and Firefox (for reference). > This kinda reminds me of Gnome with which it is impossible to even add a > program starter. Oh, don't get me started with my hate-journey across Gnome. While Gnome first was superior to KDE language-wise, it later became more and more complicated: Not reading .xinitrc or .xsession, so forcing you to manually add "autostart programs", and mount/umount (and eject for optical units) didn't work at all, even though I followed the existing documentation, but finally I had to hack the umount binary (!)... And GDM's inability to launch anything than a Gnome session, and then came Gnome 3 which was so unusable that I switched the systems that ran Gnome for many years to Mate. That's the end of my personal Gnome story. :-) > It's already entirely useless because it doesn't even > have a usable window manager, but who would expect that you can't do > something basic like adding a start button or a menu entry. I had to > switch a machine ever to KDE because of that. Would you say KDE is usable again for "german novice users"? I haven't tried KDE for some time because of bloat... > There's just nothing better than fvwm ... On my laptop I'm using IceWM (with "metal2" style which finally includes a BSD start button, but at the top, where it belongs to) again, combined with wbar and a Mac background image for a "good look". ;-) On my home system, I found nothing better than a highly customized WIndowMaker with xdm. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Aug 3 02:08:16 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7E9CA2A04 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:08:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460nW34J2Bz3HPp for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:08:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.36.217]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MaHOX-1hoQ2L0uVJ-00WEPE; Sat, 03 Aug 2019 04:08:12 +0200 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:08:08 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190803040808.7ae75fca.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <87tvaz8gkn.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802060356.eebda021.freebsd@edvax.de> <87tvaz8gkn.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:mbCwu9/l0ephEiq5oUZaRjCUTb0tJRBERYYCIoBS1hCotrz9LK8 I1Wfcyu5SaeTtNPNgIcZNjgNWh4nueBaquB+x+FvPC+BeVALw8ptG+ta4IfMJUqPDs2sMI+ epRUreWCFWp8G6seY9/Clt0yax3jNd1/yGlFYG7ipz5Id5Etbc0isxiDTIqRDSyuicEbFNo +ckzjtqX3yoTcC7UuCiCg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:hHiZCzNwDOA=:iUgcsw+UQGuuP3iW5E8bZX y0tQ+oRElU++rFOdWfZij01SpduVu1qfDBITHgzlzJgBpucHRTz1oJa0mNwkoKEp0RieK9cdI seZEIR1Np8pallpvdae/Q3GmyfUHB/n3EdmIMAmMWO1GYCOY/5N46+0pNH84OT3d3M35i+crP sx4zwRPFbabmcR26ADtlUMnqzrOupoLJszbnETJiOofXh4Jx+stc7VoRCCaOATsbrHvOulaMp ziZ6adV7pCpkf5b4EvMYxnFHF0ztpuhpcY/Mw//QtBpjpdI7cTfS3ypyPgJxmhbVGl6ou3ycY KbhZcr/4j5iN7X30FHz+MIMDJhc/XKAv5YjLx5MPBJnKfaOZlMfWcTNBu1FAjT2y5zeX8xoR/ DGP+hYl+LWbOmnBC2RIqyqTkhY3yfWsDuKz9x0Oa0vQ10Xy87WXh3FhPgsBiv4WN1/XfJSKsg Lgs0UXOdWs0QWJaJ/WFiMJ8HmY9OLL8JH0mgL9lNDh/R0dupTgXwFI7E4afp5W8Rj4X3Aedw+ lFFOuWM7ipOg0LFSqFxAmnWB69vCcqOkPhqcd/FOn2B0LqPUXGPU4IOtG0jrvo3iBkCEvmqMe NTpXOfiC5zxBho4f9IITBzd8OeyU15hH0UIJxzum/rT1GDewe+bxbOXHRyVduag9ReWw95VFW ZGEgHgOtctQN89+mjLiz0AYc3YD9t8QU99Mn6jnRGf6WUh0Koios4yAB76X/1tR1ZUUM6uDKl FHCTO6H33LM72cu3vcGHhFuhk33Z0RIR2W3KIDkW51JmsFYjjeT5VIQZ/s4= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460nW34J2Bz3HPp X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.135) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.58 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.36.12.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.85)[0.845,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.33)[ip: (0.79), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2019 02:08:17 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:20:40 +0200, hw wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > With some more search engineering I found a way that works. > > > > It works _at the moment_. > > > > It's so stupid that by using your brain in a normal manner > > you never would have come up with such a stupid idea... > > > > Go to the "hamburger menu" -> Preferences -> Preferences -> > > Advanced -> Config Editor and accept the risk. Now add a > > new entry of type "string". The entry's name shall be: > > > > intl.locale.requested > > > > It's value shall be empty. Yes, you need to add a setting > > that has no actual value (except you consider empty string > > a value, which is acceptable). > > > > Restart Thunderbird. > > > > And now in German, please. :-) > > Thank you very much, this actually works! :) Sidenote: This also worked in Firefox 58, but didn't work anymore in 60. So remember that after an upgrade of Thunderbird, one of the following two things can happen: a) Thunderbird relapses to English, and now there is an option to set the interface language. b) Thunderbird relapses to English, and you need to find another config editor hack to get German back. I'm happy that stupid old Sylpheed mailer always is in the language that $LC_* requests... ;-) > You have to have the language pack installed for this to work, though. Correct. I did install it before, but pure installing did not have an effect, and you could not "select it". > I'll still try Sylpheed ... It's been around for a while now, and I'm > curious. I'm using it for many years now. Personally, I find it convenient and easy to use. It's a nice consensus of "novice-friendly" and "professional". For example, it doesn't render HTML mails (which I find very useful), it gets the reply references right, you can save all attachments at once, and it uses the classic "three fields" layout (tree, list, message). Additionally, there's Sylpheed-Claws / Claws-Mail (no idea how they call it today) with extended functionality. Furthermore, you could try Evolution for a more bloatet... erm, feature-rich program. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Aug 3 02:27:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D28CA3389 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:27:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460nx13Ry7z3JKL for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 02:27:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.12.36.217]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MCGag-1i335Y0Q78-009SJH; Sat, 03 Aug 2019 04:22:06 +0200 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:22:05 +0200 From: Polytropon To: hw Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190803042205.550f5903.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <87y30b8h0v.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802053434.6babd0d0.freebsd@edvax.de> <87y30b8h0v.fsf@toy.adminart.net> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UB3kOYBo/rNbrUVn2kkcCh2PnpzahuMoOBVwLmEAPUMxkn0z3C9 OKB+wUZsWbZ6Q7iA06nZSSvwUZnbVmXetbS6iDPvoy/sWI30/+r2R/mNUQpoe4o+7DaDw0A z1h8kf41Eqw6bOpLZ6ojhPC1pmZHItQdy3GpzJF3D7qNe8YsYexDKzPwS+4KJCXwFmYaWPN 1JfTz/N0scF9Jrv9R36Rg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:iqT8oz+lUE4=:W3JpVJJTYG7+qecDTzz0gk y4ELqzAzz72hO2NR2dE/R7LBrrB31DSI2CStJ1eGEnFsx5TkQCjqC8EZCMyPs7AKfmGswgGem f4+akwJSGuQHC1x9zleCt6y9G6c9JVERQn02ZyyUavjQVij16WKZRPg/xtE1BBLh+JeI81sQS qIEXewvxT2H9xVfarO691lREt7Wi5R/huQZIRgJl6CSTHUXcCJCqBlRA38X7WssxYLUyfHdj9 SQTuObhCwYWBsH5x6AcSmXnc+7+EfegVIoYC+GhbN6t7hCSTLMOI3uHExoCbIAfdCfWdv3EJo gj8JxY0exyfeVf/qvyNXR0SX8spiuwY6YaynvctKVGbGor23RMT0wcJhk5LeDeXHy61ufl/dS xWcYWCnuR6jt6MrNPDqzttbS4ALOl2K7zQA3b2Lncj5piPSDeJKllXY6oz380sxAD9g6+cVrw lPmRVTgOTl7uzOiSDajaeCqpNxsi0qNGyJ82E14+Awaz1eWguz4+ROQ6+QYhkUNd6E4oTkNpN etg8Kal9SFHMWchKOfuvUvaYCb5JfZ4LqaRJat39yy8BH6+ecZAMxo3Ue7MD8x7fpSAJ/O4y7 ymZvPEcJn0lnA+HVmXNw1eap/e+4qGYGD7Zl0LzxjQQek+8vu14O63G9+bV4p4wWW1BadfDVG eNOhDaY8azv1ry31ZYmvGS4AjNHiyJgMiKQXbbHCLlp4zzDqgELZuJcVRiOKEoTVfmVpx3lnh LqWZ+z3p6ubS/BKaocHHqzlrtigeVMC4Tj4UntvYguU+zX3dESYVkDk7s2k= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460nx13Ry7z3JKL X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.135) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.57 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[217.36.12.178.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.85)[0.845,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[135.126.227.212.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.33)[ip: (0.77), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.44), asn: 8560(2.31), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2019 02:27:18 -0000 On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 22:10:56 +0200, hw wrote: > Polytropon writes: > > > On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 01:22:42 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Polytropon writes: > >> > > > [...] > > > > If I remember correctly, $LANG has precedence over $LC_* if set. > > However, I'm not sure every program conforms to this rule... and > > I'm questioning Mozilla software following established rules and > > consensus. ;-) > > Right, the programmers seem to be stupd kids who can't do anything but > play with dumbphones. My impression is that programmers often don't care. While it has been good practice for decades to use -Wall and its equivalents, it doesn't seem to be important anymore. Compile time errors and warnings are irrelevant just as runtime warnings and errors. You can easily verify this by launching any "modern" Gtk or Qt program from a terminal, say, Firefox, Gimp, and so on. I also see this attitude applies to documentation, which is scattered across the web, in wikis, user pages, discussion forums, outdated project pages and so on. Even program sets intended for professional use such as The SleuthKit have moved their documentation online, which makes it inaccessible (!) in certain circumstances, especially security-related ones where you are not permitted to connect to outside (online) resources. In such a situation, "man mencoder" was really helpful (I had to deal with those special circumstances for a few times, it's not pretty). Churning out new versions and new features often seems to be more important that fixing bugs or working against bad decisions. Doing it right for everyone is impossible, I know, but a certain amount of "good old common sense" should be applied more. :-) > Be careful or we will be called trolls. Nowadays, you just /have/ to > click on all the like buttons regardless how much something sucks; > otherwise you're a troll. I will remember that, so people don't start feeding me. ;-) > > Because it's left to the users to find out how to do "nonstandard" > > things like intending to change the interface language. Because > > all the world only the English always! ;-) > > and right handed, of course Remember that traditional X (and X applications using the XMotif and Xaw / Xaw3d toolkits, if I remember correctly) provides a "/ shaped" mouse pointer (instead of the traditional \ one), and it can be enabled with "xsetroot -cursor_name right_ptr". However, some programs use their own mouse pointer, and it will change as soon as you point into such a window... > But when you use the trackball with your left hand, [...] That's entirely wrong. You don't use a trackball because it does not exist. Everyone uses a mouse (old people) or taps on the screen (young people). ;-) > [...] you suddenly notice > how wrong all the GUIs are designed. The old X programs can have the > scroll bar on the left no problem, but all the new stuff is so great > because it's immature and you have to click the like buttons nonetheless > (even if you can't reach them because they're at odd locations). This is called "to explore". ;-) > >> >> Is this a general problem > >> >> with the language pack or something specific to FreeBSD? > >> > > >> > Not FreeBSD-specific. It's one of the typical problems of > >> > "constant change" when dealing with Mozilla software... :-/ > >> > >> Is there a usable alternative to Thunderbird for an IMAP client? > > > > Yes, Sylpheed is a lightweight and still very convenient and > > usable MUA. It supports IMAP (as well as SMTP and POP3, which > > is so obvious that I don't need to mention it). > > Hm. I'll try that out, thanks. If that is in German, the users can > decide what causes them more confusion: the same program they're used to > in English but German or a new program they've never used, but in German. Sylpheed is in any language you want (English and German verified), depending on what $LC_* says. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Aug 3 08:17:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF33DAAB3E for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 08:17:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 460xjB17TSz437h for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2019 08:17:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1564820254; x=1567412254; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=rJHnB0277CA42bt0PwPIBCRj+G4vXLIdoEtL8OtKoZA=; b=H7CNQpV5XA1ULV0sMfh2oUDialVGNioFjxmXlirXXDE1tyPW6gOYUbyoZcMKf01i1YSei9sQMGzTuI4CVsO8hbOeSH3TVi5h882Oi5NHEpxI65R31VNjUobleDwuZDEP7A2ZDwW+8iA+XOLyY+JCVBsqxqoyamdnS62J7WVmM2U= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi4xYjcwMDAwMDE5M2JiZTguZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.h.in.socketlabs.com (r2.h.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.180.12]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:17:26 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.h.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:17:26 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1htpEC-000EX0-PL; Sat, 03 Aug 2019 09:17:24 +0100 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 09:17:24 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-Id: <20190803091724.4b856a9fafbefa131142969a@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20190803040009.291039df.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <23873.2939.410268.920612@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <20190731225154.82dcb0ae.freebsd@edvax.de> <87h8705waf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802050200.dd286e57.freebsd@edvax.de> <877e7v9wts.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190803040009.291039df.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 460xjB17TSz437h X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=H7CNQpV5; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.04 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; FORGED_SENDER_VERP_SRS(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.76)[-0.757,0]; ENVFROM_VERP(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.20)[ip: (-0.54), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(-0.23), asn: 7381(-0.17), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2019 08:17:35 -0000 On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 04:00:09 +0200 Polytropon wrote: > On my home system, I found nothing better than a highly customized > WIndowMaker with xdm. Sophisticated! I find flwm and startx still works perfectly well, the combination has failed to annoy me for many years now. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith