From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Tue Mar 5 19:21:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA33150ED5D for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 19:21:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80006843B2 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 19:21:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 1FcqhF1EwikIZ1Fcsh36jk; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 12:21:19 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=XdD3M7x5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=NTGMnVQrEZIA:10 a=EWPDJS0nAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=EHdnPKSskEOBO0cTdsQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=MULH-nh2sywA:10 a=lB5geNp93_8A:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from android-68f84e02b5988183.esitwifi.local (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 363844D1B; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 11:21:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:20:51 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Spoiler Alert To: FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: <927620D5-F0B3-4218-BDFB-B4D869B5C6FC@cschubert.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfIzS3z5whHxlZ0Laol7wD88yOlActjZLoi0Mvgm/4+LYaW4CEsAeYeMokBfFGU1ByCeZv/KDvEM9hbFnnoy27DiU1ljvajbPK/NomZlR/4V2kavULGb5 4AymGEzFe5vaRpw16PJcl3zV9NEx/e5KHeBc6WYvYMlaVgfu98piKPpUEc37+ctrpKiY9SRDjILs8Q== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 80006843B2 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.88 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_SPACES(0.50)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.963,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11,233.154.66.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.21)[ip: (-6.10), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.75), asn: 6327(-2.11), country: CA(-0.09)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[13.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 19:21:27 -0000 This came over my phone's news feed=2E Another example that Colin Percival = was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun and profit ma= ny years ago=2E https://arxiv=2Eorg/pdf/1903=2E00446=2Epdf --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Tue Mar 5 19:26:40 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0429D150EF99 for ; 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[65.30.200.132]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c5sm4016174ioa.28.2019.03.05.11.26.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:26:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: "J. Hellenthal" In-Reply-To: <927620D5-F0B3-4218-BDFB-B4D869B5C6FC@cschubert.com> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 13:26:35 -0600 Cc: FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <927620D5-F0B3-4218-BDFB-B4D869B5C6FC@cschubert.com> To: Cy Schubert Message-Id: <20190305192635.EF4C03DFDA5D@DataIX.net> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B3220847DC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.66 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[dataix.net:s=net]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-security@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[dataix.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[dataix.net,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.66)[ip: (-8.54), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.68), asn: 15169(-2.02), country: US(-0.07)]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx2.googlemail.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx3.googlemail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 19:26:40 -0000 Ha! the speculations and revelations of a FreeBSD hacker are certainly = not one to be ignored. Chock another one up to Colin!!! > On Mar 5, 2019, at 13:20, Cy Schubert = wrote: >=20 > This came over my phone's news feed. Another example that Colin = Percival was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun = and profit many years ago. >=20 > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1903.00446.pdf >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use. > Cheers, > Cy Schubert > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org >=20 > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-security@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-security-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =E2=80=94=20 J. Hellenthal The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven = says a lot about anticipated traffic volume. From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Tue Mar 5 19:55:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96994150FFBC for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 19:55:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-qt1-x841.google.com (mail-qt1-x841.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::841]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BAE085E8B for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 19:55:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: by mail-qt1-x841.google.com with SMTP id w4so10270134qtc.1 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:55:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hardenedbsd.org; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; 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Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([63.88.83.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x80sm7959252qkx.85.2019.03.05.11.55.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 05 Mar 2019 11:55:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:55:04 -0500 From: Shawn Webb To: Cy Schubert Cc: FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert Message-ID: <20190305195504.6wr6jhby3rgiprjt@mutt-hbsd> References: <927620D5-F0B3-4218-BDFB-B4D869B5C6FC@cschubert.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vekhmztvv372vibi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <927620D5-F0B3-4218-BDFB-B4D869B5C6FC@cschubert.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 13.0-CURRENT-HBSD FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT-HBSD HARDENEDBSD-13-CURRENT amd64 X-PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x6A84658F52456EEE User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2BAE085E8B X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hardenedbsd.org header.s=google header.b=dUAOy2gJ; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::841 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.42 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hardenedbsd.org:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-security@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hardenedbsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hardenedbsd.org:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.874,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.44)[ip: (2.59), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.68), asn: 15169(-2.02), country: US(-0.07)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 19:55:41 -0000 --vekhmztvv372vibi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Mar 05, 2019 at 11:20:51AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: > This came over my phone's news feed. Another example that Colin Percival = was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun and profit ma= ny years ago. Weird machines are weird. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder and Security Engineer HardenedBSD Tor-ified Signal: +1 443-546-8752 Tor+XMPP+OTR: lattera@is.a.hacker.sx GPG Key ID: 0x6A84658F52456EEE GPG Key Fingerprint: 2ABA B6BD EF6A F486 BE89 3D9E 6A84 658F 5245 6EEE --vekhmztvv372vibi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEKrq2ve9q9Ia+iT2eaoRlj1JFbu4FAlx+1BMACgkQaoRlj1JF bu6PGw//d+iSRcjTS2ahaBaq8NVheisGS6mkh01YGWB4i5yY8ipZTSyUZOOQDqNg sky9momKdhjb4GeGS4j6iDmSp8LCUgi08RwxgbqyLGfr+kHqPdaY20KiwYTS04Oc CexiZ7lkSuszALhcAJ6pou9sc8KgwkDc4PiQALv+zGLxlvJNMxNvzOvmFsOlOcMs E6C1UJ14bQT7Kijwbh1m4rbugzc+AfS/vFH6iGyMKlQBqPjnpeyYbD5qk0AIxz+A jQODi2WTRxZ5ebsvIlwB3cYBF0f8+7a5+Vrp34Vw0teKuc8tl1NKrepNjo8rLtwI TAV6aJPgQ2sbaKRcHhNXZ8iF1BEBJF/9jKEgRP81M9kD60t/2OEkp9yLHrCokdrq NLnKb3xxCScFL1c/+0pVyVkJQ/o7JG/J7oFIP08SMR85tXmDzggK6EKkCMqG+vnp sM2dB8GiQG/7Yg2cFKbD2SINRjTEfwNp4K/mWxX5mcvjXjDDjbMjEqjxLNi5eBFS HCtPsaI+2Xibj7HbevxMNxWiDi2++YU7tRWybZ3TQyeKolo8u9T/TsEl+TVHxdn0 BUlC8HnoCan32uSIKM/sP+TcByNgPKjQx155aQvFUCvSxr9W1Gji8LwVv050CvmZ efOZsLr0hPznbbfP2/lbEVNXGUMZbtaOrNwWy4/1pj5UE7TTlqA= =5FWc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vekhmztvv372vibi-- From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Wed Mar 6 11:01:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6317150CA31 for ; 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Wed, 6 Mar 2019 14:01:14 +0300 (MSK) Reply-To: lev@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert To: Shawn Webb , Cy Schubert Cc: FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org References: <927620D5-F0B3-4218-BDFB-B4D869B5C6FC@cschubert.com> <20190305195504.6wr6jhby3rgiprjt@mutt-hbsd> From: Lev Serebryakov Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=lev@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFKbGksBEADeguVs+XyJc3mL3iiOBqDd16wSk97YTJYOi4VsHsINzJr09oFvNDiaDBIi fLn2p8XcJvehcsF2GSgrfXfw+uK4O1jyNIKJmiYA0EtE+ZbRtvDrrE0w6Q8+SDeKA21SWh3Y vSQ0DJUontbgW55ER2CbEiIUTIn34uQ0kmESAaw/v5p/9ue8yPTmURvv130FqPFz8VPzltqL NxyGt54TxPfKAzAHEIwxlEZ63JOwzloKh1UDBExcsf9nJO08/TAVgR5UZ5njFBPzaaquhRoP qPJLEQQDqxPIlvMNtHKf7iIebE4BHeqgCdJA0BoiR6gpa0wlsZtdrTPK3n4wYSphLvGbhfOZ YW/hbcu7HYS/FImkVxB3iY17kcC1UTnx4ZaYeASPBGOOPbXky1lLfmDGWIFT//70yx+G17qD OZzF1SvJJhGvh6ilFYaWMX7T+nIp6Mcafc4D7AakXM+XdubNXOMlCJhzPcZ0skgAEnYV587w V7em5fDVwQccwvtfezzqKeJAU5TGiywBHSR5Svzk2FwRNf6M//hWkpq0SRR63iOhkHGOAEBi 69GfEIwH2/w24rLxP0E+Hqq8n+EWNkPatw1Mhcl5PKkdvGCjJUaGNMkpBffjyYo254JXRscR eEnwdIkJt4ErDvjb2/UrOFq31wWMOiLzJeVchAgvTHBMRfP9aQARAQABtCFMZXYgU2VyZWJy eWFrb3YgPGxldkBGcmVlQlNELm9yZz6JAlYEEwEIAEACGwMHCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgID AQIeAQIXgBYhBPltHKC19DGLZ0szCuqwPFi/3EePBQJb/TeXBQkPBbfGAAoJEOqwPFi/3EeP LtEQANQLS89OCDSnLDZLyCj7sH5GZbTikJp9Or2McqEOpjgtfY/OgqCe7lfo8f71tTN3gL2t VGtNEtsl6CqKeBdm6fqsetCAed2+waJfbXLZWReLRSFQJ/cbof8MB3h/uEw8Zng1ZbyEU0eG rc41Mhk8bTfxjNRjkXDbp0+2xug+eRr2RYhiY2SxH+iy57AbRIu9gkjfL05VztfvsV5dPxt7 +reHf2Vhtu+qCRtCytGQqDvYWGpVZ8U5fHJxFdsJpn66LAe8w+iRGCbppB5TKeHkqWqDb++u sd5ZHzwep/7qcLBeKggi8+a2C3J1J4TpYBwdPgusrGtBPf2EYSTc/0mW5j86g1l8UDN9qXAI FvWbKf22p5SlYUzf5qRLny4ZdDl1mH13lmJV7ZkZGMKnt0IjJ2x0LRgLGhiSm/D4Lh8yc/MX uhj9BB020XbWcMUPpA7S7YaWeIXbnK3NrPU0yk77prFJblfskOwuaxJIwa2mX+cCAQA95As5 2talifo4Kh8OLSvS1gpbMo64LllTzuGbCWuKecH3fpMlZlD7/10z9lBvkSXA7KgadDfN0yHO xGCK8KE9gXXmEVRlbgGDYOJw9FLWHuSZHUvQTkmr4goXrmMIKa9A4BKO3s9vowP4pJ0vp3kz MIBeEwKSvAeZZfgKbIKggKUuQ5gsAqvF360sG3+UuQINBFKbGksBEAC0a9wfjo2P3JyT7Lc+ QlbFVshGbSbazb4ma7QYG5IZZD5vfLBFkePoG6cnrn3WCXp4A43hszAynCwe4eXyAkv4+gPF 3ZSeNE5Wz3zYG+jh2nm2iGCkyaVykfbA+2chor2DKH5tHpuNMBlF+wSJHZKJmlo/sFIktAnV 1NBVg4/cL+9/hIpvl82cl3hYCD7/e7/qRE+w38CpAAzn65FvbODn7xlY3fsJt+cHPBJ4EBM9 KnTwcce+F+72RQMZQEl7vIAwSRmLdgZHN0MFC533l62SVoKjT0eaOOIBrvesmojhWjfwugib Xr+WRF/tGcW77Bxwe2eQLbEVESqWeMORxRxocx7Q7aACoHmf4G4U1Vzx7zUEfNfHjfjZeQVf AURf/MoUelZSW/BmMIfKCg3lRlWAt+Pq2h2UADPVqAZze45beE/c8z8LZsOZiGoRhYL8NSg6 +ziLTdmYLWdtFGAuZhqOtNp5h6tGj21OksBotcaIa5YjbCmmnImIjGlSBkUKvIhq/RXth5b2 gNwaQdu+Yv4AlZVHRsuVywL/skDFL5+We11bDK6MQ5PzvmntRJcgbyoisn1hiV04OV1LpJJM kJn1j8VlBqDQNT/z+BjB0ru/0anv+5uLj7v0ck06rEo4yiXT/ZAcBM76j7V7FaGbkoba6bUU CQ2H5YYBOKpikjCnpwARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmAhsMFiEE+W0coLX0MYtnSzMK6rA8WL/cR48F Alv9N7IFCQ8Ft+cACgkQ6rA8WL/cR49wpw//W7QrZHKYUWEVHtPLVMlcM1f7MgwnYlIRe/I6 gykwvt87sqxSYu7eHxfX6JZR2M9UYuUYscSR57gxXKu2Uzqaz2KjvEIXJCwCTsuXZjkQ19oL hAPsucw2AcMI6YqPXbZ7hO0Mh8jMeJzD6vDvx3zvunQxGQoZKxr3BvRUyO7NCYbA7N8ccI3E Tmdjj9JTbtue9WaUeGLszFDiITmkASBdsK07y4ylLAJzUGCvYLBU3gx0bBOB2S8SbxHYmQlj ewjovbp+MbT+CoXNxZp+gDRModGyIMdRIotkRiDbgNl0VWIT0SS1GUUlUHKzQ/ZPUvpvk6Gq s/SYBS7rBQNSoXXmJxNW6I6atVNW7JhInC1tkHxBlbpik4FK07J6NHFTx+9ygyCxbxwNA/Le FGkL3kU0VFXR2dNiAVbeueUPF6tU5Bye5ftgpLKOSAbo1g++EKUkc8335/4oYRBMcGEk4xUr NAvzoFPhA2W3KtklruJ9ThrFt9+//NB5ySlVgTwGWMuBJoskEmNOTBv34/UQPUIuE4xSwy6y H+nRQJooiMFo5QCosslJPlwyV63NS9lYXB6n3QWOCP6sFdWACNUCOFv4uk7LQdY9BsCmt2Tk cLuHmoS+fvUesQXnYV2aQi9HciriPIj2gvJ6WjgiaC/PpePil0fzyrfG/JMyHL0qcgmYoj0= Organization: FreeBSD Message-ID: <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 14:01:08 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190305195504.6wr6jhby3rgiprjt@mutt-hbsd> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pPRh7QNB8JdqrK2SpvLiq2uKLlzHgqGQG" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4EA1187D91 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.967,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:2610:1c1:1::/48, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 11:01:19 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --pPRh7QNB8JdqrK2SpvLiq2uKLlzHgqGQG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="aawPp5xryIjWyjCvqU4iu1t8Ghb5ZZvHX"; protected-headers="v1" From: Lev Serebryakov Reply-To: lev@FreeBSD.org To: Shawn Webb , Cy Schubert Cc: FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org Message-ID: <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org> Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert References: <927620D5-F0B3-4218-BDFB-B4D869B5C6FC@cschubert.com> <20190305195504.6wr6jhby3rgiprjt@mutt-hbsd> In-Reply-To: <20190305195504.6wr6jhby3rgiprjt@mutt-hbsd> --aawPp5xryIjWyjCvqU4iu1t8Ghb5ZZvHX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 05.03.2019 22:55, Shawn Webb wrote: >> This came over my phone's news feed. Another example that Colin Perciv= al was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun and prof= it many years ago. >=20 > Weird machines are weird. Not-weird machines are dead-slow :-( --=20 // Lev Serebryakov --aawPp5xryIjWyjCvqU4iu1t8Ghb5ZZvHX-- --pPRh7QNB8JdqrK2SpvLiq2uKLlzHgqGQG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEE+W0coLX0MYtnSzMK6rA8WL/cR48FAlx/qHlfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEY5 NkQxQ0EwQjVGNDMxOEI2NzRCMzMwQUVBQjAzQzU4QkZEQzQ3OEYACgkQ6rA8WL/c R49x0w/+Mlqh1H1ZX8jNsSIjDHg4NuMezcuEwdGNsdxw945/wJqUv1ju9xikgS8K PclycJZG7KCtZRTcVutmj4507Y8rrlvL9BL1xCuBJCQ9yIS//9sSQDeXZMejx4sO FWlhvMEFSSgvx6kBOWVEr+Q7K1s4Kea4AnMqYVi5IyBVzyBnog1o9T7ccCEddjXh wzh4yQkSF9aUfMsrycdHyfkC2p7n3yKKEOQTC+KtsY72tvc5utpfSd++SokkidNk pISIjeu9+YRzXpA3WugHiXciyyVyrNy9pNfZ22WGHKYm5vFUcSn+7gbG3uTVJoRS xnkeFaFkfd95WCFZ1mty7sJZB+prZF5cmJuJJhyqpcsl+Belr9TlgsGF/xhgqGWH XWWBwRmc1wI5mb83XdjiWlSXw4xdwPCnCk19MIQEiCRxi7MPjgt6u6H9xgB/xVqA cwfmgLJ4ptnOckerPETFDEcbRGlers1Z4vEW84R6PBj0EdgkNSGkWq9zfwJSsO67 HSe8FyQPG/0pMbNkle3XCsZYEG78zCRsP44Mwa3koZECvfKYpTwPDUySgJpjjSf/ uVa+IJgk/6aIIEbMuC+5YQY4Q5wHkKbct6C0yyfNnMAU48ufcWBee3fHtyPZ+PAd LgjSb3WniUgFxoN4aJqV2EDdH5etji78CGJ5J4MU9sX/IAuyH98= =o/oW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pPRh7QNB8JdqrK2SpvLiq2uKLlzHgqGQG-- From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Wed Mar 6 13:33:05 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356D615166D5 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 13:33:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E6528DCA8; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 13:33:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 1WfKh3kGthn9P1WfLhvkFv; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 06:32:59 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=NZuYKFL4 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=NTGMnVQrEZIA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=W5wWH8oW--raX8Fxr0wA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B5631D6; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 05:32:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x26DWvLw004295; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 05:32:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x26DWu3f004292; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 05:32:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201903061332.x26DWu3f004292@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: lev@FreeBSD.org cc: Shawn Webb , Cy Schubert , FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert In-Reply-To: Message from Lev Serebryakov of "Wed, 06 Mar 2019 14:01:08 +0300." <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 05:32:56 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfISDqySTFebDKeEGyHsB+tj6tlMdOcrSA1EIK03aE4gz6H7seLkVIHdQ5UaJv+eO+K5YxDfl3hUJzWLlUmwwZnUANVSpl0Ou1FV9PPw3/OMtwuZEgA5b +0iAycolTVHmL4s/nEMTm263qYIhQjR3jih00lxiCrt9vmGjRDRJDJIRDW0rPAP49UpBP9hU7DjrUUxfSQfLwZVmTUSV5+dQtVAcFkC8yOBFiAuCtkAjAcs+ m9X0V12S1NPdI30+OylmgQ== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 2E6528DCA8 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.91 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.21)[ip: (-6.10), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.76), asn: 6327(-2.12), country: CA(-0.09)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[13.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 13:33:05 -0000 In message <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org>, Lev Serebryakov writes: > On 05.03.2019 22:55, Shawn Webb wrote: > > >> This came over my phone's news feed. Another example that Colin Perciv= > al was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun and prof= > it many years ago. > >=20 > > Weird machines are weird. > Not-weird machines are dead-slow :-( Picking a random email in this thread to reply. The problem is that there are so many of these Spectre class of exploits that we collectively roll our eyes. Yet another one is not news any more. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Wed Mar 6 22:38:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041BE1529B66; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 22:38:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it1-x141.google.com (mail-it1-x141.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::141]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19134749DE; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 22:38:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it1-x141.google.com with SMTP id l15so12747041iti.4; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 14:38:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1ICLI/H9ekQO4UMiBhrYU2HY3hqr4Gy/Ep+Yt2JxEPU=; b=P8b+c6jzhtNcvFtzBxWKrgsYP9QZlj4Xfj2iXHuPOlcUW+tb7MsWDIMjExxXOQH+IL n5k4euEkBLfnzN7e8AsQ+AezfObuJM7+xP+ave0RMc32OTWrxExx/8shBFyOJ/mrXGfd mHIIuOIf4xfuNufYi/xpDhu2XtAcmNLYoYrDWUlBSz/nsd66LRoQqSj3xr0wEfyTo14B SVaPQVHi4BergIX7n86UTJP2xvIKuFnPTfvlLVrdA8XHRxM7MA/nQ5RhCqVo44YZ+YGm h14kc7Xrf7fLRHscF/5951Is5YEyRIyL9roB0/7buLlhBCNJQGG/C7JxiNifQLQHBejJ uKrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1ICLI/H9ekQO4UMiBhrYU2HY3hqr4Gy/Ep+Yt2JxEPU=; b=lM5XrzBsAJoEKUcM2gcrdg0nigCGzA+UNcLsIWUmTMZow/4Oj4ideX+9vOdizjveS3 iAOFS1wAtYNlQDSNNpBWgaSqlFQZgTDodQ/OG4Ygx7SF1RGSff2DpUgK1GdWyLJsjKzT VvnAxYBOkvouZsizexh5SZYzLfTy3N7NRPycBY4RDFt1//X5KB71tSRt/Yu31a6huM9I wY6zbu2ViDXRFzCt4eY+9nGTBxgX2trF1p0SU3v5POv6D2RkRYSzXtVqOtGz4nnUHSwY 7aGj3ChEcVMAXQisgtiiOi5dqxjlxoZwv+3f3zUcDiOBOX2kWhxv0cCZxtBhnE/Z/Nvf A2eA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV7YzymW8fF1qI4BmXd8Z43G/1oMwcoAXLQgeY58/ZlRFPk5Ptt QoqCrpUvk2XNxtv78ejMirXEXAP0JhnugBvjjWPP3vkuL9g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyB46pU235yjZZTe/l4PAmUSROcljBXwUqUxqCcGCukiUrjmuzo4Dh2K5HPuVVtNTaE0WyDAO3zRQ+WQf8cgig= X-Received: by 2002:a24:5407:: with SMTP id t7mr3813014ita.128.1551911914873; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 14:38:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a02:b5ae:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 14:38:34 -0800 (PST) From: grarpamp Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 17:38:34 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: BSD and Linux so easy to exploit that Zerodium pays just $50k for uid0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-security@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 19134749DE X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=P8b+c6jz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grarpamp@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::141 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grarpamp@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.41 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_HAS_CURRENCY(1.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(-0.52)[ip: (2.22), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.70), asn: 15169(-2.04), country: US(-0.07)]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.880,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 23:13:17 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:38:37 -0000 https://zerodium.com/program.html "the research becomes the exclusive property of ZERODIUM and you are not allowed to re-sell, share, or report the research to any other person or entity." Opensource Unix Foundations should strongly consider forming open collaborative crowdfunding and paying similar to openly acquire and fix exploits thus keeping them from going into secret blackholes which are often used directly against their very own users requiring, and in, security sensitive environments (be they corp, gov, personal, edu, ngo, biz, research, journalism, etc...), reducing continued exploitation of the work, users, and infrastructures of Opensource Unix OS projects through using bounties to identify improving production, review, security, audit, coding, feedback models in same. "Many ... have bug bounty programs for those who want the exploit used for defensive purposes, ie fixed... but they pay orders of magnitude less. *This is a problem.*" -- Bruce Reassert and 0wn the problem. From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Thu Mar 7 03:16:52 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32BB2150AE04 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 03:16:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAFC98919F for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 03:16:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 1jWRhmzifdhgh1jWThbAsC; Wed, 06 Mar 2019 20:16:42 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=R9B95uZX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=NTGMnVQrEZIA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=BhAKXUnTU5Jq7OcrMx0A:9 a=wG5ukLIoH5QvQjq8:21 a=72B2fZOGDsULd8qa:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy8 [10.2.2.6]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B2FB204B; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 19:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x273GJVd098380; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 19:16:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x273GJ6k098377; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 19:16:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201903070316.x273GJ6k098377@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Garrett Wollman cc: Cy Schubert , FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert In-Reply-To: Message from Garrett Wollman of "Wed, 06 Mar 2019 21:25:57 -0500." <23680.33077.883594.613635@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 19:16:19 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfEEOquakQlBJEfN+uER24MMod2dg3MPunMxP5ILZo+ElqVWUTXDhCdzZCjB626uROh74Yef6f4wPFJEiH1BCvN5Txc+0MJC8XqCiLGHse1LGehoEmQs7 AwacNzZ48VbBSda0piooxo3bKx6Q82b+tsekxXrrzS4gT1DrO/WaewrYuwRRhEB7PTOlRxlWPzmKbyoXnOM1yli57283MGjY/ciD8Dsagfm2VLrZyhgPn+1n X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DAFC98919F X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.59 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.19)[ip: (-5.98), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.76), asn: 6327(-2.11), country: CA(-0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.69)[-0.692,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[12.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 03:16:52 -0000 In message <23680.33077.883594.613635@hergotha.csail.mit.edu>, Garrett Wollman writes: > < > said: > > > In message <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org>, Lev > > Serebryakov > > writes: > >> On 05.03.2019 22:55, Shawn Webb wrote: > >> > >> >> This came over my phone's news feed. Another example that Colin Perciv= > >> al was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun and prof= > >> it many years ago. > >> >=20 > >> > Weird machines are weird. > >> Not-weird machines are dead-slow :-( > > > Picking a random email in this thread to reply. > > > The problem is that there are so many of these Spectre class of > > exploits that we collectively roll our eyes. Yet another one is not > > news any more. > > And that's likely the way it's going to be, absent some major new > discovery or a complete revolution in the way we program computers > (which probably puts FreeBSD out of a job). Probably but likely not before I or maybe you retire. But sadly, we're becoming accustomed to the brokenness of the situation. At $JOB people who would normally be alarmed by this are shrugging it off as the new normal. > > I actually attended a very interesting talk by John Hennessey today in > which he discussed (at a very high level) one idea for where this > goes, and it's very definitely in the mode of completely different > programming models combined with completely different hardware > designs. One big part of this is that more compute hardware is going > the way of GPUs, where the only supported interface is provided by a > blob of proprietary software so the hardware vendor is much more free > to change the implementation without maintaining hardware-level (or > even ISA-level) compatibility. And a lot more hardware explicit > fetch/store to different levels of the memory hierarchy. Kind of like the Cray's of old front ended by an IBM manframe or more probably like the MASPAR (a massively parallel processor front ended by a Tru64 box where I once worked). -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Thu Mar 7 02:26:07 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330E81508199 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 02:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (tunnel82308-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:ccb::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 845D586D77 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 02:26:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: from hergotha.csail.mit.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x272PxYF085247; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:25:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by hergotha.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.14.4/Submit) id x272PwEr085245; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:25:58 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wollman) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23680.33077.883594.613635@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:25:57 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman To: Cy Schubert Cc: FreeBSD-security@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Spoiler Alert In-Reply-To: <201903061332.x26DWu3f004292@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org> <201903061332.x26DWu3f004292@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.1 (amd64-portbld-freebsd11.2) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (hergotha.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 06 Mar 2019 21:25:59 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS autolearn=disabled version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hergotha.csail.mit.edu X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 11:32:34 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 02:26:07 -0000 < said: > In message <2c3f9748-a17f-3778-9eaa-99087f33d0e3@FreeBSD.org>, Lev > Serebryakov > writes: >> On 05.03.2019 22:55, Shawn Webb wrote: >> >> >> This came over my phone's news feed. Another example that Colin Perciv= >> al was right when he wrote his paper on exploiting cache for fun and prof= >> it many years ago. >> >=20 >> > Weird machines are weird. >> Not-weird machines are dead-slow :-( > Picking a random email in this thread to reply. > The problem is that there are so many of these Spectre class of > exploits that we collectively roll our eyes. Yet another one is not > news any more. And that's likely the way it's going to be, absent some major new discovery or a complete revolution in the way we program computers (which probably puts FreeBSD out of a job). I actually attended a very interesting talk by John Hennessey today in which he discussed (at a very high level) one idea for where this goes, and it's very definitely in the mode of completely different programming models combined with completely different hardware designs. One big part of this is that more compute hardware is going the way of GPUs, where the only supported interface is provided by a blob of proprietary software so the hardware vendor is much more free to change the implementation without maintaining hardware-level (or even ISA-level) compatibility. And a lot more hardware explicit fetch/store to different levels of the memory hierarchy. -GAWollman