From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 14:00:33 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9E314AD0DA; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:00:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from gilb.zs64.net (gilb.zs64.net [IPv6:2a00:14b0:4200:32e0::1ea]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gilb.zs64.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACD836A8F2; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:00:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: by gilb.zs64.net (Postfix, from stb@lassitu.de) id D731E20B439; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:00:31 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Stefan Bethke In-Reply-To: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 15:00:31 +0100 Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, freebsd-jail@freebsd.org, freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1059F1FF-7521-4ACC-AA20-49E600E20C38@lassitu.de> References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> To: Grzegorz Junka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: ACD836A8F2 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of stb@lassitu.de designates 2a00:14b0:4200:32e0::1ea as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=stb@lassitu.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.17 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[lassitu.de]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.30)[0.300,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.33)[-0.334,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.96)[0.959,0]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: gilb.zs64.net]; IP_SCORE(0.06)[ipnet: 2a00:14b0::/32(0.17), asn: 13135(0.12), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13135, ipnet:2a00:14b0::/32, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:00:33 -0000 It=E2=80=99s bad etiquette to post to more than two lists, let=E2=80=99s = take this to freebsd-virtualization@. > Am 19.01.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Grzegorz Junka : >=20 > Hello, does anyone know the current status of docker on FreeBSD? Wiki = https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker states it's experimental. The last = commit in https://github.com/kvasdopil/docker/tree/freebsd-compat is = also from 2015. >=20 > There in fact are two ports, freebsd-docker (from 2015) and docker = (18.06). What's the difference between them and which one should I use = to run docker images on FreeBSD host? >=20 > Has this project been completed and now only needs testing, or has it = been abandoned, or maybe the approach has changed and I am looking in a = wrong place? >=20 > Thanks, > GrzegorzJ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-ports@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-ports > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-ports-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" --=20 Stefan Bethke Fon +49 151 14070811 From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Sun Jan 27 13:59:51 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BA214AD07C for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:59:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from gilb.zs64.net (gilb.zs64.net [IPv6:2a00:14b0:4200:32e0::1ea]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gilb.zs64.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CCE26A875 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:59:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: by gilb.zs64.net (Postfix, from stb@lassitu.de) id 2F8B920B41F; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:59:48 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Stefan Bethke In-Reply-To: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 14:59:47 +0100 Cc: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> To: Grzegorz Junka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7CCE26A875 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of stb@lassitu.de designates 2a00:14b0:4200:32e0::1ea as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=stb@lassitu.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.47 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.13)[-0.130,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[lassitu.de]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.946,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.60)[-0.597,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: gilb.zs64.net]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.06)[ipnet: 2a00:14b0::/32(0.18), asn: 13135(0.12), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13135, ipnet:2a00:14b0::/32, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 13:59:51 -0000 Am 19.01.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Grzegorz Junka : >=20 > Hello, does anyone know the current status of docker on FreeBSD? Wiki = https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker states it's experimental. The last = commit in https://github.com/kvasdopil/docker/tree/freebsd-compat is = also from 2015. >=20 > There in fact are two ports, freebsd-docker (from 2015) and docker = (18.06). What's the difference between them and which one should I use = to run docker images on FreeBSD host? I believe at this point in time, all you can do is have a Linux machine = somewhere (for example, in a local Bhyve VM), and use the Docker command = line client from FreeBSD to manage it. That=E2=80=99s what = sysutils/docker is for. > Has this project been completed and now only needs testing, or has it = been abandoned, or maybe the approach has changed and I am looking in a = wrong place? It looks abandoned, unfortunately. And looking at the entire container = infrastructure, reviving it would require a significant effort. For = example, it most real-life usage scenarios, you want to be able to = manipulate IPFW/PF entries to forward ports from a host interface into a = container, which would require special plugins for Docker, or a = compatibility shim that allows Docker to use iptables APIs/ABIs. Going even further, pretty much everything in the ecosystem (k8s, etc.) = assumes it's running on top of a Linux kernel including a number of = management APIs that are not (completely) emulated on FreeBSD. While I would love to see proper Docker support in FreeBSD, I=E2=80=99m = not sure its even the right thing to aim for. In Docker production = environments, people generally try to pare down the host OS to the = absolute minimum, and at that point, what benefit would you derive from = FreeBSD as a host? Similarly, why would you want to run FreeBSD-ABI containers, = specifically? One of the benefits of the container ecosystem is that = there are many ready-made images you can build on. Having to re-invent = all of this seems of little benefit to me. Just my 2 cents, Stefan --=20 Stefan Bethke Fon +49 151 14070811 From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 02:53:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B66AF14C6847 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 02:53:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@kraus-haus.org) Received: from mail-qk1-x744.google.com (mail-qk1-x744.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::744]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8734C6C2B9 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 02:53:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@kraus-haus.org) Received: by mail-qk1-x744.google.com with SMTP id m17so8627838qki.5 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:53:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/qS0FpXKCdxOTMuSbP9zLHbX6YW4eZBU5JYX9pvaaoI=; b=sjgfP0EkXF0JbzYwUH8uiF9YjpvXgSLMjm4/c6F6jce3PIDLEWiLvNxmeQLbGbcrjb Gdb+SlqWZp6lkk5WEJpvyQy/25/TIbwlldG47ES0aYjUpcjYRJ8Q2c3/QEBc4XO1xD/K 8D/hIghlkF3KJR/4PUrRW0zr0+wrfDH0XkgEtl8LNAso2tkSb9GGqSZRhJrQJz2kF8YU EiNe8d4U/WRDnIL6cnQfmoveYGdJh0Xerb6tLs3/FrySJuGT+hPx7sEBnBSo3WxDU1j4 frHVo9mo/Yw6SzEGbVFc/h5h9/smdHsvEPuBwB9/FAQ2sFRhJWSVCIGsKsISdhM3c/Q4 eAhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/qS0FpXKCdxOTMuSbP9zLHbX6YW4eZBU5JYX9pvaaoI=; b=sgwpdxWQ6XhEcIQNuMpes50V8UZs+LfzZ42rsDZhEM5NZsLfTsnO5dpBMjTmXRiNUv JnESZrUWt1Q2yPe0/6oLVw6pWHHZ23pGu2+PQn1pXOQn0iTyBuaroDAwDi0nc6B/2ajN QDpX6fIKBcqoDMlVIsD4JhMquRVtdOSTAiV1TbnMRjIo0BHLjew8E4ckSovZJ7cL14Oj Z/naaLzieRTDVJj7GdvSl1SyvBtaiU7Px6V4FyRrS8w9X6pLvdL+jodJgYMn0QNwlWEI EoMDhu4Ho2S15lCAzbVXkXQ3LbpJYYGg161k9S13AUo2pRbHzAbINuI3PI9u87S1u2RE lEsw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdHxqB59XrP6QZeiSxhlqBXKK+UxVuiEXAJJ5HNr+QGRxdbd+WY Bf4zzP6+ajZMkbETWfEB3XM7jrH+t2A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN49kkYY6tZPMNRGtgYH5s54Qe/hga1dYybQUsg/RJFnmz7ywQ5ygNfIMX4fXUhTa+Pt2XUPPQ== X-Received: by 2002:a37:7183:: with SMTP id m125mr17504785qkc.195.1548644025689; Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:53:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.32.141] (pool-74-109-188-192.albyny.fios.verizon.net. [74.109.188.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a17sm69222124qth.93.2019.01.27.18.53.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:53:44 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Paul Kraus In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 21:53:42 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7A86028D-C413-4063-84D8-5AB985EAD2A0@kraus-haus.org> References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <9A01020A-7CC6-4893-A425-11A7BF736F4E@ultra-secure.de> <42f59b63-fdc7-306f-d836-83533741a86c@FreeBSD.org> <5c926314-adce-dba1-f5ce-2fda35e1aeba@gjunka.com> To: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8734C6C2B9 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=sjgfP0Ek X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kraus-haus.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx5.googlemail.com,aspmx4.googlemail.com,aspmx3.googlemail.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx2.googlemail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.25)[-0.253,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.58)[ip: (1.61), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.51), asn: 15169(-1.94), country: US(-0.08)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 02:53:48 -0000 On Jan 22, 2019, at 3:01 PM, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 >> Am 22.01.2019 um 20:48 schrieb Grzegorz Junka : >> 2. A docker container in a jail with no native linux kernel, docker = is running completely in FreeBSD environment >>=20 >> 2 would be most convenient but also most difficult as all smallest = docker features would need to be ported natively to FreeBSD >=20 >=20 > IIRC the Joyent approach was to port the Linux system call API to an > extent that made it possible to =E2=80=9Esimply=E2=80=9C run Linux = Docker in zones without > a Linux kernel =E2=80=A6 (Open)Solaris already had Linux Brand zones, which I=E2=80=99m sure = helped get there much faster. They could already run Linux (user space) = in a Zone. From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 07:40:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E112614A991C for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:40:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Received: from kagate.punkt.de (kagate.punkt.de [217.29.33.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C0FA758DD for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:40:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Received: from hugo10.ka.punkt.de (hugo10.ka.punkt.de [217.29.44.10]) by gate2.intern.punkt.de with ESMTP id x0S7eTJH076455 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:40:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from [217.29.44.166] ([217.29.44.166]) by hugo10.ka.punkt.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id x0S7eTUU076624 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:40:29 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) From: "Patrick M. Hausen" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: The status of docker Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:40:28 +0100 References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <9A01020A-7CC6-4893-A425-11A7BF736F4E@ultra-secure.de> <42f59b63-fdc7-306f-d836-83533741a86c@FreeBSD.org> <5c926314-adce-dba1-f5ce-2fda35e1aeba@gjunka.com> <7A86028D-C413-4063-84D8-5AB985EAD2A0@kraus-haus.org> To: David Powers via freebsd-virtualization In-Reply-To: <7A86028D-C413-4063-84D8-5AB985EAD2A0@kraus-haus.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0C0FA758DD X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hausen@punkt.de designates 217.29.33.131 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hausen@punkt.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.90 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.29.32.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[punkt.de]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mailin.pluspunkthosting.de,mailin.pluspunkthosting.de]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.31)[-0.309,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[131.33.29.217.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.79)[ipnet: 217.29.32.0/20(-2.18), asn: 16188(-1.74), country: DE(-0.01)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16188, ipnet:217.29.32.0/20, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 07:40:46 -0000 Good morning, > Am 28.01.2019 um 03:53 schrieb Paul Kraus : > (Open)Solaris already had Linux Brand zones, which I=E2=80=99m sure = helped get there much faster. > They could already run Linux (user space) in a Zone. Yes, but how did they get there? Is there some technical reason why Linux branded zones are =E2=80=9Eso far ahead=E2=80=9C of = FreeBSD=E2=80=99s Linux ABI that they can run native Docker images while FreeBSD can=E2=80=99t? Or is it just a matter of money and manpower invested? Kind regards, Patrick --=20 punkt.de GmbH Internet - Dienstleistungen - Beratung Kaiserallee 13a Tel.: 0721 9109-0 Fax: -100 76133 Karlsruhe info@punkt.de http://punkt.de AG Mannheim 108285 Gf: Juergen Egeling From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 12:02:47 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 175B514B15FA for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C2488654 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 5B97814B15F6; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:46 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A37414B15F5 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCD018864E for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CB09486F for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0SC2jow037495 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:45 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x0SC2jMd037485 for virtualization@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:45 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: www set sender to bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 229852] [PATCH] bhyve: IOMMU (Intel VTd) PCI passthrough attempt locks up some systems Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:44 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Base System X-Bugzilla-Component: kern X-Bugzilla-Version: 11.2-RELEASE X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: callum@aitchison.org X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:02:47 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D229852 --- Comment #10 from Callum --- (In reply to Marcelo Araujo from comment #5) > 1) bhyve command line bhyve -AHP -S -u -c 4 -p 0:6 -p 1:7 -p 2:4 -p 3:5 -m 2G \ -s 0:0,hostbridge \ -s 1:0,lpc \ -s 2:0,virtio-blk,/dev/zvol/zroot/bhyve/tv \ -s 4:0,virtio-net,tap8 \ -s 5:0,virtio-net,tap9 \ -s 8:0,passthru,4/0/0 \ -s 9:0,passthru,5/0/0 \ -s 10:0,passthru,6/0/0 \ -s 11:0,passthru,7/0/0 \ -l com1,/dev/nmdm0A \ -l bootrom,/usr/local/share/uefi-firmware/BHYVE_UEFI.fd \ tv > 2) CPU Type E3-1275 v5 > 3) Guest OS USED OpenSUSE Leap 15.0 > 4) Device used via passthrough 4x class=3D0x0c0330 card=3D0x00151912 chip=3D0x00151912 rev=3D0x02 hdr=3D0x00 vendor =3D 'Renesas Technology Corp.' device =3D 'uPD720202 USB 3.0 Host Controller' class =3D serial bus subclass =3D USB --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 12:07:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB99414B19DF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4010488949 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id EF8C014B19DE; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:45 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE09014B19DD for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79C0388944 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6E0C487E for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0SC7iOM009004 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:44 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x0SC7iUn008996 for virtualization@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:44 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: www set sender to bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 229852] [PATCH] bhyve: IOMMU (Intel VTd) PCI passthrough attempt locks up some systems Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:44 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo CC X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Base System X-Bugzilla-Component: kern X-Bugzilla-Version: 11.2-RELEASE X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: callum@aitchison.org X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:46 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D229852 --- Comment #11 from Callum --- (In reply to Rodney W. Grimes from comment #9) Submitted for review - D19001 (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D19001) --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 16:31:25 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B2514B870C for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F4D6C9A9 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 1469F14B870A; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:25 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015B014B8709 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BE696C9A5 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D30736E1F for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0SGVNvC097396 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:23 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x0SGVNOK097395 for virtualization@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:23 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: www set sender to bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 229852] [PATCH] bhyve: IOMMU (Intel VTd) PCI passthrough attempt locks up some systems Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:21 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Base System X-Bugzilla-Component: kern X-Bugzilla-Version: 11.2-RELEASE X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: niels=freebsd@bakker.net X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:31:25 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D229852 --- Comment #12 from Niels Bakker --- Tested the patch on an i5-4690K with no immediate adverse affects. --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 17:32:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BD1214BA132 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145906F6E8 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id C625314BA131; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:54 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B311A14BA130 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AF126F6E5 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 932737830 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0SHWrI5056713 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:53 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x0SHWrSt056712 for virtualization@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:53 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: www set sender to bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 229852] [PATCH] bhyve: IOMMU (Intel VTd) PCI passthrough attempt locks up some systems Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:51 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo CC X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Base System X-Bugzilla-Component: kern X-Bugzilla-Version: 11.2-RELEASE X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: rgrimes@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 17:32:55 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D229852 --- Comment #13 from Rodney W. Grimes --- (In reply to Niels Bakker from comment #12) Are you passing through any devices? --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 22:21:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8E6E14C17EF for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 22:21:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eva.nelson@dataescott.com) Received: from ssmtp1.net4india.com (ssmtp2.net4india.com [118.67.248.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B77F82C3D for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 22:21:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eva.nelson@dataescott.com) Received: from [155.94.88.106] (helo=HIPLB224) by ssmtp1.net4india.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.75 #4) id 1goFGb-0004sP-02 by authid with login for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 03:50:34 +0530 Reply-To: From: "Eva Nelson" To: Subject: Postfix Potential Business Leads Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 03:50:56 +0530 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AdS3V56kCEx9gEVjR3OGDbitfHKKHA== Content-Language: en-us X-Auth-By: eva.nelson@dataescott.com X-Auth-By-Port: 587 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 5B77F82C3D X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eva.nelson@dataescott.com designates 118.67.248.77 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=eva.nelson@dataescott.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.31 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[eva.nelson@dataescott.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:118.67.248.0/24]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.net4india.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_SBL(1.00)[106.88.94.155.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:17447, ipnet:118.67.248.0/24, country:IN]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[77.248.67.118.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.954,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dataescott.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.975,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; IP_SCORE(0.51)[ipnet: 118.67.248.0/24(1.77), asn: 17447(0.76), country: IN(0.03)]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.98)[0.975,0]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 22:21:44 -0000 Hi, Would you be interested in acquiring our recently verified data of Postfix Users List? List Contains: Names, Title, Email, Phone, Company Name, Company URL and Company physical address, SIC Code, Industry, Company Size (Revenue and Employee). Please let me know and share your thoughts, if you are interested so that I will get back to you with the counts and pricing in detail. Looking forward to your response. Regards, Eva Nelson Sr. Lead Generation To delist from this mailing list reply with subject line "Remove" From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mon Jan 28 23:09:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188FE14C21F1 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A745883E0F for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 6664414C21F0; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5365C14C21EE for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E16B283E08 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::16:76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mxrelay.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AAA3A885 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.118]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x0SN9hR6096543 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:43 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x0SN9hA6096542 for virtualization@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:43 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: www set sender to bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 229852] [PATCH] bhyve: IOMMU (Intel VTd) PCI passthrough attempt locks up some systems Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:42 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Base System X-Bugzilla-Component: kern X-Bugzilla-Version: 11.2-RELEASE X-Bugzilla-Keywords: patch X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: niels=freebsd@bakker.net X-Bugzilla-Status: New X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: virtualization@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 23:09:45 -0000 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D229852 --- Comment #14 from Niels Bakker --- Yes, otherwise it wouldn't be a real test, wouldn't it? :-) Specifically, I passed through an audio device which was recognised in the guest, both in the stock 12.0 kernel and in one with the patch attached to = this PR applied on the host. --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. You are the assignee for the bug.= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Wed Jan 30 02:56:43 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1FA14B1417 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 02:56:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@kraus-haus.org) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F38476BB8 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 02:56:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@kraus-haus.org) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id o125so12887353qkf.3 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:56:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=6irbJ7MD97bRqm8NQhM7EuhCwIyoMC5Pgz8cyACxsvQ=; b=jxiNcD2JpTy8EO8gNWdCSDR+4ZvUQxuMvyQO2B9uaq2lwRkSmCmlAMMqKkVxNgkd1r X5HWPogc95FkaMi6LNX7xjJYQqDGe+EzRFu7JDm1HKvaSbCiRLryN+AzWHCFCCEzQjzh ERsvgqg20GNaKIzNFAe24n5oxRJLP0LpbGbTzJiPq/YM0JA5GHXAtFC+RycTr7v680cT CbLTOCLY57QGu2K/m2JX1UjGTdTJ3VkpEvmIvLj64jCCbtGPrlHPokRv48CIAOwkTbDl wSsxa6m/N36+VJirg3loXgH3U/Ee1mG+0DRzWsz2iKyksh/PrB3yz8hhFfrguyhNvGLF rMjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=6irbJ7MD97bRqm8NQhM7EuhCwIyoMC5Pgz8cyACxsvQ=; b=aSG6dkl7w/oAb6LbxAhmGreCzmC87MLNDzV8Gtw4A5AnmPDB+sNeAABCr5YI16LOJ9 LXxy9ZYs5FUZpccYFzlMu10EKnzN/TnjiG6+TEBSPlIPnfBvRWAHIqz4c/G9SGYZLaDd WfoKv3W+A/5u/5CBo+Jz9cPKDxaJJVHPFhuyVxABrbaAirqt1+lMjT3nnskVArPiUMhV sJOwXDj5BGll1XD39CF/zt3sfi/epXhfiJkfMCRPmDODnVs0nBbhfDxey9RcpLWqN8F4 rGX62jQJfSpLlJsLxKCn45yDz8C7KgDukrLCgChk4mbX2x/ttEJv/Ibtdm/wTd5DlOOm sahA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUuke4ALNNcFERV/7dRhVdhokISDBa7a3hQzcNuwu3AvFjLyoJsh9P tTXoaTTSaCS1MpEV0e6KHX4neH7G/vI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN78ecsaeYZDYcdUj9Bv2HFQSBaF3fbtyFBT4f2gPU9WuOZf12XZLPM5VeZI3fb4wxfTFLt7iQ== X-Received: by 2002:a37:9543:: with SMTP id x64mr26222816qkd.158.1548817000666; Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.32.141] (pool-74-109-188-192.albyny.fios.verizon.net. [74.109.188.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n72sm523783qki.26.2019.01.29.18.56.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jan 2019 18:56:39 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Paul Kraus In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 21:56:37 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4E30C2DA-0CF1-48EF-B1BD-379E5C02D8C8@kraus-haus.org> References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <9A01020A-7CC6-4893-A425-11A7BF736F4E@ultra-secure.de> <42f59b63-fdc7-306f-d836-83533741a86c@FreeBSD.org> <5c926314-adce-dba1-f5ce-2fda35e1aeba@gjunka.com> <7A86028D-C413-4063-84D8-5AB985EAD2A0@kraus-haus.org> To: David Powers via freebsd-virtualization X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7F38476BB8 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=jxiNcD2J X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.50 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kraus-haus.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; IP_SCORE(-2.73)[ip: (-9.09), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.53), asn: 15169(-1.95), country: US(-0.08)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[kraus-haus-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[alt1.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx5.googlemail.com,aspmx4.googlemail.com,aspmx3.googlemail.com,alt2.aspmx.l.google.com,aspmx2.googlemail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[e.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.960,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 02:56:43 -0000 On Jan 28, 2019, at 2:40 AM, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: >=20 > Good morning, >=20 >> Am 28.01.2019 um 03:53 schrieb Paul Kraus : >> (Open)Solaris already had Linux Brand zones, which I=E2=80=99m sure = helped get there much faster. >> They could already run Linux (user space) in a Zone. >=20 > Yes, but how did they get there? Is there some technical reason > why Linux branded zones are =E2=80=9Eso far ahead=E2=80=9C of = FreeBSD=E2=80=99s Linux > ABI that they can run native Docker images while FreeBSD can=E2=80=99t? >=20 > Or is it just a matter of money and manpower invested? May be. Solaris introduced Containers and Zones in Solaris 10 and over = the life of Solaris 10 added new features. I suspect Linux Branded Zones = was developed along side Solaris Branded Zones (which let you run a = different version of Solaris in a Zone), but Sun was paying for the = development effort. All that was over 10 years ago now and the memory is = not as clear as it was then. Joyent also pays people to develop Illumos / SmartOS.= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Wed Jan 30 10:49:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA1914BB9C6 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:49:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmarneweck@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com (mail-lf1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C5558C05F for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:49:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmarneweck@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id v5so17011981lfe.7 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 02:49:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/QHuPnUkdNcL4JB5FfEXP5hma9nvUSEUQrcUJ2KCSOA=; b=XK83JV/TZKqv1u5Zjq+HWkfzaTr5GAwO4aZFE1is45gwbDKZ64mzDxD2X9bad3h2ci YSaslxd3L/XDx9BB35n1o+npu+QbiSPqgAE8Ft+wISYn+C2Ea5FlaBz4zTxum1+Vr7f7 mAb4Jku/5fj/Gw8pKIrfw97F00oKuH95wpvs40LvhcqqK2x3HFhl1GumSX3SEsvUgzth c2aFiBA7vOLAmgVqUjcm1nPHkHlrn3apXN4WeBLDNLlIm6fXnJRHotiga0ftMaHgg/Cc r+TQG+R6cW5X+kBCvVaFN638MXlNF3dS+OUkMlcpuNu5HJc5q4Ygk2BDJLZyh4WN4LUo pMpA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/QHuPnUkdNcL4JB5FfEXP5hma9nvUSEUQrcUJ2KCSOA=; b=lijGJiXG1/lqhxbkZQTXkbNFj1xx1dy8Tj7FfqXgmV5hmEDT9BOV1PuMHAw6SaKJ7V X6ZVaz7VeE96CKaiJ5kYXStuNPIw9Xd6TlZ8wovOELJImZ4YEgl6WpBQogPaJazx0qJ2 stApjQLR8qITfoqoR5rgij93pT/47W5aB3LYeWlEMEhZrGYIWxne9kOz+ckZGgQxKiDr zGQO02YS6C9/vHe+DgUDgyAzdWTZTUuz+OFfirNvCqSZvFKfDirNd4xvAwcFH+JTXkrx CCsRpXorv1IMfpSCnr16P3PKZfd5kc27HXWQaZaCoTNOUGOG4AiARpoOyhkT599Uy/zN 9ptg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdhXMNfu2vH/m/rSxzZnZsxvNjUK3oOPDC/G/crXrEUUYtP5EQ2 Ojs95VEQhHwdDHBfK6ZMp9thY/c/fMB0b6Vt27g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7FdBLXqcJh9WoNGkkIe0zC+CoDKoSvkEXke8SLgE6lAbfMYIB7Kmu+xyZLvukLFJq+EAwkZECPokeE2KOfPD0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:200b:: with SMTP id g11mr22676179lfg.58.1548845344581; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 02:49:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <9A01020A-7CC6-4893-A425-11A7BF736F4E@ultra-secure.de> <42f59b63-fdc7-306f-d836-83533741a86c@FreeBSD.org> <5c926314-adce-dba1-f5ce-2fda35e1aeba@gjunka.com> <7A86028D-C413-4063-84D8-5AB985EAD2A0@kraus-haus.org> <4E30C2DA-0CF1-48EF-B1BD-379E5C02D8C8@kraus-haus.org> In-Reply-To: <4E30C2DA-0CF1-48EF-B1BD-379E5C02D8C8@kraus-haus.org> From: Jacques Marneweck Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:48:52 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Paul Kraus Cc: David Powers via freebsd-virtualization X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0C5558C05F X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=XK83JV/T; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jmarneweck@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jmarneweck@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.64 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.92)[-0.920,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[9.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(-2.71)[ip: (-9.25), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.28), asn: 15169(-1.96), country: US(-0.07)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:49:08 -0000 On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 04:57, Paul Kraus wrote: > On Jan 28, 2019, at 2:40 AM, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > > > > Good morning, > > > >> Am 28.01.2019 um 03:53 schrieb Paul Kraus : > >> (Open)Solaris already had Linux Brand zones, which I=E2=80=99m sure he= lped get > there much faster. > >> They could already run Linux (user space) in a Zone. > > > > Yes, but how did they get there? Is there some technical reason > > why Linux branded zones are =E2=80=9Eso far ahead=E2=80=9C of FreeBSD= =E2=80=99s Linux > > ABI that they can run native Docker images while FreeBSD can=E2=80=99t? > > > > Or is it just a matter of money and manpower invested? > > May be. Solaris introduced Containers and Zones in Solaris 10 and over th= e > life of Solaris 10 added new features. I suspect Linux Branded Zones was > developed along side Solaris Branded Zones (which let you run a different > version of Solaris in a Zone), but Sun was paying for the development > effort. All that was over 10 years ago now and the memory is not as clear > as it was then. > > Joyent had one engineer (Jerry Jelinek) who worked on the revival of the LX Branded Zones on SmartOS. Jerry spent a few months getting Ubuntu 10.04 running out of the box and fixed numerous issues with compatibility and getting various builds of Ubuntu to boot over around six months (if memory serves me correctly). Bryan Cantrill the CTO at the time at Joyent had a presentation on this. It might have also helped that the Linux ABI was mostly stable. Regards --jm > Joyent also pays people to develop Illumos / SmartOS. From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Wed Jan 30 20:36:50 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62D4513196F3 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 20:36:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from msa1.earth.yoonka.com (yoonka.com [88.98.225.149]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "msa1.earth.yoonka.com", Issuer "msa1.earth.yoonka.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E11EB856DB for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 20:36:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from crayon2.yoonka.com (crayon2.yoonka.com [10.70.7.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by msa1.earth.yoonka.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x0UKae2r027016 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 30 Jan 2019 20:36:41 GMT (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Stefan Bethke Cc: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> From: Grzegorz Junka Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 20:36:40 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB-large X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: E11EB856DB X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list1@gjunka.com designates 88.98.225.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list1@gjunka.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:88.98.225.149]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gjunka.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[gjunka.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.943,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.53), ipnet: 88.98.192.0/18(-4.77), asn: 56478(-3.81), country: GB(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:56478, ipnet:88.98.192.0/18, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 20:36:50 -0000 On 27/01/2019 13:59, Stefan Bethke wrote: > Am 19.01.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Grzegorz Junka : >> Hello, does anyone know the current status of docker on FreeBSD? Wiki https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker states it's experimental. The last commit in https://github.com/kvasdopil/docker/tree/freebsd-compat is also from 2015. >> >> There in fact are two ports, freebsd-docker (from 2015) and docker (18.06). What's the difference between them and which one should I use to run docker images on FreeBSD host? > I believe at this point in time, all you can do is have a Linux machine somewhere (for example, in a local Bhyve VM), and use the Docker command line client from FreeBSD to manage it. That’s what sysutils/docker is for. > >> Has this project been completed and now only needs testing, or has it been abandoned, or maybe the approach has changed and I am looking in a wrong place? > It looks abandoned, unfortunately. And looking at the entire container infrastructure, reviving it would require a significant effort. For example, it most real-life usage scenarios, you want to be able to manipulate IPFW/PF entries to forward ports from a host interface into a container, which would require special plugins for Docker, or a compatibility shim that allows Docker to use iptables APIs/ABIs. > > Going even further, pretty much everything in the ecosystem (k8s, etc.) assumes it's running on top of a Linux kernel including a number of management APIs that are not (completely) emulated on FreeBSD. > > While I would love to see proper Docker support in FreeBSD, I’m not sure its even the right thing to aim for. In Docker production environments, people generally try to pare down the host OS to the absolute minimum, and at that point, what benefit would you derive from FreeBSD as a host? > > Similarly, why would you want to run FreeBSD-ABI containers, specifically? One of the benefits of the container ecosystem is that there are many ready-made images you can build on. Having to re-invent all of this seems of little benefit to me. There is nothing docker-like in FreeBSD. Sure, we have jails and bhyve but they are faaar from the convenience and support of docker containers that you can pull directly from docker hub and have a complete application running in a few lines of code. I am working on a project which uses two containers to run the back end - one is a customized container running Stellar + a DB and one running an off-the-shelf container with PostgreSQL. The middle layer is nodejs+GraphQL and front-end is React. It takes literally 30 minutes on a MacBook Pro from the moment you git clone sources from github to when you have the complete development environment running. However, I spent a day trying to make it run in FreeBSD bhyve. Half of that time took preparing the FreeBSD host and installing and configuring a Linux host for containers in bhyve. But once everything was installed, nothing actually worked because the docker containers couldn't communicate with each other for some reason. I suspected some network issues within the Linux host and spent the other half of that time trying to sort it out. Now if you consider that the cost of a MacBook Pro is a few days worth of work, why bother spending time (and money) trying develop the code on a FreeBSD? And if an AWS VM or other hardware is able to run the same already configured docker environment from a Mac, why bother spending time (and money) trying to run it on a FreeBSD server instead of a Linux server? Currently the only reasons when someone might actually consider running FreeBSD server are: ZFS and/or jails (but for that you may also need to add IlluminOS and SmartOS to the list of choices) or when you already have teams/systems running FreeBSD. Ports are not a reason for choosing FreeBSD because Arch Linux also supports a rolling release model. In many ways FreeBSD reminds me Amiga - I tried to use it for development, not just as a hobby at home, but also during my studies or work, and I was very proud when I could achieve, often with great effort, what others on IBM PC (and now Linux) had for granted. But at some point the effort of going against the flow was becoming too expensive, not only in terms of money or time, but also in more difficult to measure terms of missing opportunities. I realize that running docker natively on FreeBSD is difficult and may seem pointless. But for me it's a matter of using FreeBSD or not. If I can make it working, maybe with some reasonable effort, that would be great and I would try. But if not, well, then it's hasta la vista, baby (for this project for now). GrzegorzJ From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Thu Jan 31 07:50:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78DCF134B458 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [178.250.72.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA9E75BF0 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from [10.48.7.245] (188.29.165.144.threembb.co.uk [188.29.165.144]) by relay.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 080662B09A; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:10 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Mark Blackman X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C101) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:08 +0000 Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> To: Grzegorz Junka X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7CA9E75BF0 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.45 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.70)[0.703,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[exonetric.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.997,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[exonetric.com.in.heluna.com,exonetric.com.in.heluna.com,exonetric.com.in.heluna.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.98)[0.982,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12290, ipnet:178.250.72.0/21, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.28)[ipnet: 178.250.72.0/21(1.15), asn: 12290(0.34), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:18 -0000 I would imagine you would just take the docker architectural principles and w= rite some relatively straightforward code to reimplement them with jails > On 30 Jan 2019, at 20:36, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >=20 >> On 27/01/2019 13:59, Stefan Bethke wrote: >>> Am 19.01.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Grzegorz Junka : >>> Hello, does anyone know the current status of docker on FreeBSD? Wiki ht= tps://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker states it's experimental. The last commit in h= ttps://github.com/kvasdopil/docker/tree/freebsd-compat is also from 2015. >>>=20 >>> There in fact are two ports, freebsd-docker (from 2015) and docker (18.0= 6). What's the difference between them and which one should I use to run doc= ker images on FreeBSD host? >> I believe at this point in time, all you can do is have a Linux machine s= omewhere (for example, in a local Bhyve VM), and use the Docker command line= client from FreeBSD to manage it. That=E2=80=99s what sysutils/docker is fo= r. >>=20 >>> Has this project been completed and now only needs testing, or has it be= en abandoned, or maybe the approach has changed and I am looking in a wrong p= lace? >> It looks abandoned, unfortunately. And looking at the entire container i= nfrastructure, reviving it would require a significant effort. For example, i= t most real-life usage scenarios, you want to be able to manipulate IPFW/PF e= ntries to forward ports from a host interface into a container, which would r= equire special plugins for Docker, or a compatibility shim that allows Docke= r to use iptables APIs/ABIs. >>=20 >> Going even further, pretty much everything in the ecosystem (k8s, etc.) a= ssumes it's running on top of a Linux kernel including a number of managemen= t APIs that are not (completely) emulated on FreeBSD. >>=20 >> While I would love to see proper Docker support in FreeBSD, I=E2=80=99m n= ot sure its even the right thing to aim for. In Docker production environmen= ts, people generally try to pare down the host OS to the absolute minimum, a= nd at that point, what benefit would you derive from FreeBSD as a host? >>=20 >> Similarly, why would you want to run FreeBSD-ABI containers, specifically= ? One of the benefits of the container ecosystem is that there are many read= y-made images you can build on. Having to re-invent all of this seems of lit= tle benefit to me. >=20 > There is nothing docker-like in FreeBSD. Sure, we have jails and bhyve but= they are faaar from the convenience and support of docker containers that y= ou can pull directly from docker hub and have a complete application running= in a few lines of code. >=20 > I am working on a project which uses two containers to run the back end - o= ne is a customized container running Stellar + a DB and one running an off-t= he-shelf container with PostgreSQL. The middle layer is nodejs+GraphQL and f= ront-end is React. It takes literally 30 minutes on a MacBook Pro from the m= oment you git clone sources from github to when you have the complete develo= pment environment running. >=20 > However, I spent a day trying to make it run in FreeBSD bhyve. Half of tha= t time took preparing the FreeBSD host and installing and configuring a Linu= x host for containers in bhyve. But once everything was installed, nothing a= ctually worked because the docker containers couldn't communicate with each o= ther for some reason. I suspected some network issues within the Linux host a= nd spent the other half of that time trying to sort it out. >=20 > Now if you consider that the cost of a MacBook Pro is a few days worth of w= ork, why bother spending time (and money) trying develop the code on a FreeB= SD? And if an AWS VM or other hardware is able to run the same already confi= gured docker environment from a Mac, why bother spending time (and money) tr= ying to run it on a FreeBSD server instead of a Linux server? >=20 > Currently the only reasons when someone might actually consider running Fre= eBSD server are: ZFS and/or jails (but for that you may also need to add Ill= uminOS and SmartOS to the list of choices) or when you already have teams/sy= stems running FreeBSD. Ports are not a reason for choosing FreeBSD because A= rch Linux also supports a rolling release model. >=20 > In many ways FreeBSD reminds me Amiga - I tried to use it for development,= not just as a hobby at home, but also during my studies or work, and I was v= ery proud when I could achieve, often with great effort, what others on IBM P= C (and now Linux) had for granted. But at some point the effort of going aga= inst the flow was becoming too expensive, not only in terms of money or time= , but also in more difficult to measure terms of missing opportunities. >=20 > I realize that running docker natively on FreeBSD is difficult and may see= m pointless. But for me it's a matter of using FreeBSD or not. If I can make= it working, maybe with some reasonable effort, that would be great and I wo= uld try. But if not, well, then it's hasta la vista, baby (for this project f= or now). >=20 > GrzegorzJ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscribe@freeb= sd.org" From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Thu Jan 31 08:54:23 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADFFF134F173 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:54:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from saper@saper.info) Received: from m.saper.info (m.saper.info [IPv6:2a01:4f8:a0:7383::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "saper.info", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A40D68097D for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:54:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from saper@saper.info) Received: from m.saper.info (saper@m.saper.info [IPv6:2a01:4f8:a0:7383::]) by m.saper.info (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x0V8sHBV072226 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:54:18 GMT (envelope-from saper@saper.info) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=saper.info; s=Sep2014; t=1548924858; bh=lbpGJAwnOW+KDb/6MX/sOCGdMrUqeAwL8Ynr2tiYWqc=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=OougzhBFGAxwWBcnP+6WpbM3eU56SColwH/oZu+oXvykws0Ey1giGnJcG4d2L4855 h4PWTkygBoOy3Y2RsL9mbULw1EO56Ow+IhsE4T3du1KeA01rB2Pa+6r27l3Y2adzhg JWF+uoTwLPtMIvJZLTjKi2+0QLe2Ucm3pjJrSoYE= Received: from localhost (saper@localhost) by m.saper.info (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id x0V8sHls072223; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:54:17 GMT (envelope-from saper@saper.info) X-Authentication-Warning: m.saper.info: saper owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:54:17 +0000 From: Marcin Cieslak To: Grzegorz Junka cc: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Subject: Re: The status of docker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="1563967779-29483388-1548924857=:11913" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: A40D68097D X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=saper.info header.s=Sep2014 header.b=OougzhBF X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.27 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[saper.info:s=Sep2014]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[saper.info]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[saper.info:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[m.saper.info]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.926,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; IP_SCORE(-0.94)[ipnet: 2a01:4f8::/29(-2.42), asn: 24940(-2.25), country: DE(-0.01)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 08:54:23 -0000 --1563967779-29483388-1548924857=:11913 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 30 Jan 2019, Grzegorz Junka wrote: > There is nothing docker-like in FreeBSD. Sure, we have jails and bhyve but > they are faaar from the convenience and support of docker containers that you > can pull directly from docker hub and have a complete application running in a > few lines of code. Some time ago I tried JetPack: https://github.com/3ofcoins/jetpack - Maciej Pasternacki presented it once at FOSDEM: https://archive.fosdem.org/2016/schedule/event/jetpack/ I find it an interesting project and it is something definitely worth reviving. 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(188.29.165.144.threembb.co.uk [188.29.165.144]) by relay.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A59F32B09B; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:45 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Mark Blackman X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C101) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:45 +0000 Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> To: Grzegorz Junka X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6812B75C58 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.70)[0.696,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[exonetric.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.997,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: exonetric.com.in.heluna.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.98)[0.981,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12290, ipnet:178.250.72.0/21, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.27)[ipnet: 178.250.72.0/21(1.11), asn: 12290(0.34), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 07:50:48 -0000 What problem are you trying to solve with docker? > On 30 Jan 2019, at 20:36, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >=20 >> On 27/01/2019 13:59, Stefan Bethke wrote: >>> Am 19.01.2019 um 15:24 schrieb Grzegorz Junka : >>> Hello, does anyone know the current status of docker on FreeBSD? Wiki ht= tps://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker states it's experimental. The last commit in h= ttps://github.com/kvasdopil/docker/tree/freebsd-compat is also from 2015. >>>=20 >>> There in fact are two ports, freebsd-docker (from 2015) and docker (18.0= 6). What's the difference between them and which one should I use to run doc= ker images on FreeBSD host? >> I believe at this point in time, all you can do is have a Linux machine s= omewhere (for example, in a local Bhyve VM), and use the Docker command line= client from FreeBSD to manage it. That=E2=80=99s what sysutils/docker is fo= r. >>=20 >>> Has this project been completed and now only needs testing, or has it be= en abandoned, or maybe the approach has changed and I am looking in a wrong p= lace? >> It looks abandoned, unfortunately. And looking at the entire container i= nfrastructure, reviving it would require a significant effort. For example, i= t most real-life usage scenarios, you want to be able to manipulate IPFW/PF e= ntries to forward ports from a host interface into a container, which would r= equire special plugins for Docker, or a compatibility shim that allows Docke= r to use iptables APIs/ABIs. >>=20 >> Going even further, pretty much everything in the ecosystem (k8s, etc.) a= ssumes it's running on top of a Linux kernel including a number of managemen= t APIs that are not (completely) emulated on FreeBSD. >>=20 >> While I would love to see proper Docker support in FreeBSD, I=E2=80=99m n= ot sure its even the right thing to aim for. In Docker production environmen= ts, people generally try to pare down the host OS to the absolute minimum, a= nd at that point, what benefit would you derive from FreeBSD as a host? >>=20 >> Similarly, why would you want to run FreeBSD-ABI containers, specifically= ? One of the benefits of the container ecosystem is that there are many read= y-made images you can build on. Having to re-invent all of this seems of lit= tle benefit to me. >=20 > There is nothing docker-like in FreeBSD. Sure, we have jails and bhyve but= they are faaar from the convenience and support of docker containers that y= ou can pull directly from docker hub and have a complete application running= in a few lines of code. >=20 > I am working on a project which uses two containers to run the back end - o= ne is a customized container running Stellar + a DB and one running an off-t= he-shelf container with PostgreSQL. The middle layer is nodejs+GraphQL and f= ront-end is React. It takes literally 30 minutes on a MacBook Pro from the m= oment you git clone sources from github to when you have the complete develo= pment environment running. >=20 > However, I spent a day trying to make it run in FreeBSD bhyve. Half of tha= t time took preparing the FreeBSD host and installing and configuring a Linu= x host for containers in bhyve. But once everything was installed, nothing a= ctually worked because the docker containers couldn't communicate with each o= ther for some reason. I suspected some network issues within the Linux host a= nd spent the other half of that time trying to sort it out. >=20 > Now if you consider that the cost of a MacBook Pro is a few days worth of w= ork, why bother spending time (and money) trying develop the code on a FreeB= SD? And if an AWS VM or other hardware is able to run the same already confi= gured docker environment from a Mac, why bother spending time (and money) tr= ying to run it on a FreeBSD server instead of a Linux server? >=20 > Currently the only reasons when someone might actually consider running Fre= eBSD server are: ZFS and/or jails (but for that you may also need to add Ill= uminOS and SmartOS to the list of choices) or when you already have teams/sy= stems running FreeBSD. Ports are not a reason for choosing FreeBSD because A= rch Linux also supports a rolling release model. >=20 > In many ways FreeBSD reminds me Amiga - I tried to use it for development,= not just as a hobby at home, but also during my studies or work, and I was v= ery proud when I could achieve, often with great effort, what others on IBM P= C (and now Linux) had for granted. But at some point the effort of going aga= inst the flow was becoming too expensive, not only in terms of money or time= , but also in more difficult to measure terms of missing opportunities. >=20 > I realize that running docker natively on FreeBSD is difficult and may see= m pointless. But for me it's a matter of using FreeBSD or not. If I can make= it working, maybe with some reasonable effort, that would be great and I wo= uld try. But if not, well, then it's hasta la vista, baby (for this project f= or now). >=20 > GrzegorzJ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscribe@freeb= sd.org" From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 19:39:41 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68CEB14BE8BF for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:39:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from msa1.earth.yoonka.com (yoonka.com [88.98.225.149]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "msa1.earth.yoonka.com", Issuer "msa1.earth.yoonka.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6756876517 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:39:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from crayon2.yoonka.com (crayon2.yoonka.com [10.70.7.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by msa1.earth.yoonka.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x11JdVIg073462 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:39:32 GMT (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Mark Blackman Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> From: Grzegorz Junka Message-ID: <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:39:31 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB-large X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6756876517 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list1@gjunka.com designates 88.98.225.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list1@gjunka.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.68 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:88.98.225.149]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gjunka.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[gjunka.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.73)[-0.731,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.53), ipnet: 88.98.192.0/18(-4.77), asn: 56478(-3.81), country: GB(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:56478, ipnet:88.98.192.0/18, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 19:39:41 -0000 On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: > What problem are you trying to solve with docker? There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. The team I am working with is using docker during development (by using a preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use FreeBSD during the development but it proved difficult. I now have a choice of either switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook Pro - both supporting docker out of the box. Thanks GrzegorzJ From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 19:49:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7FB14BED03 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:49:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [140.82.23.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AC7376BC3 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 19:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from duke.gem.co (cpe-76-175-75-27.socal.res.rr.com [76.175.75.27]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 2b1f805b TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 11:49:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Grzegorz Junka , Mark Blackman Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> From: Pete Wright Message-ID: <11fa9f16-0745-c86e-4820-fd9349b4d1ef@nomadlogic.org> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 11:49:36 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 3AC7376BC3 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pete@nomadlogic.org designates 140.82.23.70 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@nomadlogic.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.56 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[27.75.175.76.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.81)[-0.810,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.44)[ip: (-8.82), ipnet: 140.82.16.0/21(-4.41), asn: 20473(1.09), country: US(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:140.82.16.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 19:49:45 -0000 On 2/1/19 11:39 AM, Grzegorz Junka wrote: > On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? > > There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. The > team I am working with is using docker during development (by using a > preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend > system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use FreeBSD during > the development but it proved difficult. I now have a choice of either > switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook > Pro - both supporting docker out of the box. might be worth taking a look at hashicorp Vagrant.  i've used it with success in developer workflows  in the past where most devs were on macOS and we were targeting FreeBSD. https://www.vagrantup.com/intro/index.html https://app.vagrantup.com/freebsd/ IMHO docker on macOS is kinda hacky since you end up running Linux inside virtualbox, then launch docker on those VM's (at least I believe that used to be the case if things have changed).  i also feel like docker is a double edged sword (aside from the fact that it locks you into linux) in that most people don't do a good job tracking dependencies or actually apply updates/patches to base docker images. i feel like hashicorp did a pretty good in addressing the need to simplify developer workflows between their workstations and eventual target production environments, while also avoiding a lot of the issues that docker has managed to create. -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 20:07:39 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A3C14BF4DE for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 20:07:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [178.250.72.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33FA6779FC for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 20:07:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from [192.168.10.232] (90.69.187.81.in-addr.arpa [81.187.69.90]) by relay.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 212532B1B4; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 20:07:31 +0000 (GMT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Mark Blackman X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C101) In-Reply-To: <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 20:07:30 +0000 Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <088AA858-AA5E-451A-90E9-016153C685C6@exonetric.com> References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> To: Grzegorz Junka X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 33FA6779FC X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.69 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.948,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[exonetric.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.993,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[exonetric.com.in.heluna.com,exonetric.com.in.heluna.com,exonetric.com.in.heluna.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.991,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12290, ipnet:178.250.72.0/21, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ipnet: 178.250.72.0/21(1.08), asn: 12290(0.34), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 20:07:39 -0000 > On 1 Feb 2019, at 19:39, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >=20 >> On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? >=20 > There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. The tea= m I am working with is using docker during development (by using a preconfig= ured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend system on develo= pment/CI machines). I was hoping to use FreeBSD during the development but i= t proved difficult. I now have a choice of either switching to Linux nativel= y (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook Pro - both supporting docker out o= f the box. In this case, the problem you were trying to solves sounds something like =E2= =80=9Chow do I collaborate with my team who have already chosen docker while= sticking with my preferred OS=E2=80=9D =20 The problem your team was trying to solve was =E2=80=9Chow do I avoid buildi= ng a complex backend system on development/CI machines?=E2=80=9D I do believe there is some value in mimicking docker without actually being d= ocker and jetpack had a go at that. - Mark=20= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 21:07:25 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E3E14C0A3E for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:07:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from msa1.earth.yoonka.com (yoonka.com [88.98.225.149]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "msa1.earth.yoonka.com", Issuer "msa1.earth.yoonka.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31A66816CC for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:07:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from crayon2.yoonka.com (crayon2.yoonka.com [10.70.7.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by msa1.earth.yoonka.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x11L7KSL074649 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:07:20 GMT (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Pete Wright , Mark Blackman Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> <11fa9f16-0745-c86e-4820-fd9349b4d1ef@nomadlogic.org> From: Grzegorz Junka Message-ID: <01255294-b0d6-3de9-6cde-671bd763a5a8@gjunka.com> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:07:20 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <11fa9f16-0745-c86e-4820-fd9349b4d1ef@nomadlogic.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB-large X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 31A66816CC X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list1@gjunka.com designates 88.98.225.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list1@gjunka.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:88.98.225.149]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gjunka.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: gjunka.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.80)[-0.798,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.53), ipnet: 88.98.192.0/18(-4.77), asn: 56478(-3.81), country: GB(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:56478, ipnet:88.98.192.0/18, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 21:07:25 -0000 On 01/02/2019 19:49, Pete Wright wrote: > > > On 2/1/19 11:39 AM, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >> On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >>> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? >> >> There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. >> The team I am working with is using docker during development (by >> using a preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex >> backend system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use >> FreeBSD during the development but it proved difficult. I now have a >> choice of either switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) >> or to use MacBook Pro - both supporting docker out of the box. > > might be worth taking a look at hashicorp Vagrant.  i've used it with > success in developer workflows  in the past where most devs were on > macOS and we were targeting FreeBSD. > > https://www.vagrantup.com/intro/index.html > https://app.vagrantup.com/freebsd/ > > > IMHO docker on macOS is kinda hacky since you end up running Linux > inside virtualbox, then launch docker on those VM's (at least I > believe that used to be the case if things have changed).  i also feel > like docker is a double edged sword (aside from the fact that it locks > you into linux) in that most people don't do a good job tracking > dependencies or actually apply updates/patches to base docker images. > Looks like that that's no longer true and hasn't been true for the past 2 years: https://containerjournal.com/2016/08/15/docker-not-just-linux-anymore/ But it also looks like something similar could have been achieved by replacing xhyve/Hyper-V with bhyve. If docker is open source then that shouldn't be a problem? From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 21:12:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E26514C0DF4 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:12:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [140.82.23.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8878381D75 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:12:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from duke.gem.co (cpe-76-175-75-27.socal.res.rr.com [76.175.75.27]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 3a8c5887 TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 13:12:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Grzegorz Junka , Mark Blackman Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> <11fa9f16-0745-c86e-4820-fd9349b4d1ef@nomadlogic.org> <01255294-b0d6-3de9-6cde-671bd763a5a8@gjunka.com> From: Pete Wright Message-ID: <3d447c97-f2c9-8f22-2c28-4c5920560a27@nomadlogic.org> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 13:12:23 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <01255294-b0d6-3de9-6cde-671bd763a5a8@gjunka.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8878381D75 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pete@nomadlogic.org designates 140.82.23.70 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@nomadlogic.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.56 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[27.75.175.76.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.78)[-0.781,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.47)[ip: (-8.89), ipnet: 140.82.16.0/21(-4.44), asn: 20473(1.04), country: US(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:140.82.16.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 21:12:27 -0000 On 2/1/19 1:07 PM, Grzegorz Junka wrote: > > On 01/02/2019 19:49, Pete Wright wrote: >> >> >> On 2/1/19 11:39 AM, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >>> On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >>>> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? >>> >>> There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. >>> The team I am working with is using docker during development (by >>> using a preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex >>> backend system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use >>> FreeBSD during the development but it proved difficult. I now have a >>> choice of either switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) >>> or to use MacBook Pro - both supporting docker out of the box. >> >> might be worth taking a look at hashicorp Vagrant.  i've used it with >> success in developer workflows  in the past where most devs were on >> macOS and we were targeting FreeBSD. >> >> https://www.vagrantup.com/intro/index.html >> https://app.vagrantup.com/freebsd/ >> >> >> IMHO docker on macOS is kinda hacky since you end up running Linux >> inside virtualbox, then launch docker on those VM's (at least I >> believe that used to be the case if things have changed).  i also >> feel like docker is a double edged sword (aside from the fact that it >> locks you into linux) in that most people don't do a good job >> tracking dependencies or actually apply updates/patches to base >> docker images. >> > > Looks like that that's no longer true and hasn't been true for the > past 2 years: > > https://containerjournal.com/2016/08/15/docker-not-just-linux-anymore/ > > But it also looks like something similar could have been achieved by > replacing xhyve/Hyper-V with bhyve. If docker is open source then that > shouldn't be a problem? hrm, i guess the macOS install instructions are out of date: https://docs.docker.com/docker-for-mac/install/ "VirtualBox prior to version 4.3.30 must NOT be installed (it is incompatible with Docker Desktop for Mac). If you have a newer version of VirtualBox installed, it’s fine." -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 21:13:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D4414C0E68 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:13:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [140.82.23.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50AC281DF7 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:13:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from duke.gem.co (cpe-76-175-75-27.socal.res.rr.com [76.175.75.27]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 12b0257b TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 13:13:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: The status of docker From: Pete Wright To: Grzegorz Junka , Mark Blackman Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> <11fa9f16-0745-c86e-4820-fd9349b4d1ef@nomadlogic.org> <01255294-b0d6-3de9-6cde-671bd763a5a8@gjunka.com> <3d447c97-f2c9-8f22-2c28-4c5920560a27@nomadlogic.org> Message-ID: <20942f72-6bfd-011e-4f99-c6965e447544@nomadlogic.org> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 13:13:43 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3d447c97-f2c9-8f22-2c28-4c5920560a27@nomadlogic.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 50AC281DF7 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pete@nomadlogic.org designates 140.82.23.70 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@nomadlogic.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.58 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[27.75.175.76.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.78)[-0.783,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.49)[ip: (-8.91), ipnet: 140.82.16.0/21(-4.46), asn: 20473(1.01), country: US(-0.07)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:140.82.16.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 21:13:46 -0000 On 2/1/19 1:12 PM, Pete Wright wrote: > > > On 2/1/19 1:07 PM, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >> >> On 01/02/2019 19:49, Pete Wright wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 2/1/19 11:39 AM, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >>>> On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >>>>> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? >>>> >>>> There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. >>>> The team I am working with is using docker during development (by >>>> using a preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a >>>> complex backend system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to >>>> use FreeBSD during the development but it proved difficult. I now >>>> have a choice of either switching to Linux natively (as bhyve >>>> didn't help) or to use MacBook Pro - both supporting docker out of >>>> the box. >>> >>> might be worth taking a look at hashicorp Vagrant.  i've used it >>> with success in developer workflows  in the past where most devs >>> were on macOS and we were targeting FreeBSD. >>> >>> https://www.vagrantup.com/intro/index.html >>> https://app.vagrantup.com/freebsd/ >>> >>> >>> IMHO docker on macOS is kinda hacky since you end up running Linux >>> inside virtualbox, then launch docker on those VM's (at least I >>> believe that used to be the case if things have changed).  i also >>> feel like docker is a double edged sword (aside from the fact that >>> it locks you into linux) in that most people don't do a good job >>> tracking dependencies or actually apply updates/patches to base >>> docker images. >>> >> >> Looks like that that's no longer true and hasn't been true for the >> past 2 years: >> >> https://containerjournal.com/2016/08/15/docker-not-just-linux-anymore/ >> >> But it also looks like something similar could have been achieved by >> replacing xhyve/Hyper-V with bhyve. If docker is open source then >> that shouldn't be a problem? > > hrm, i guess the macOS install instructions are out of date: > https://docs.docker.com/docker-for-mac/install/ > "VirtualBox prior to version 4.3.30 must NOT be installed (it is > incompatible with Docker Desktop for Mac). If you have a newer version > of VirtualBox installed, it’s fine." > sorry ignore my previous email, i am totally mistaken and misread the docs :( -p -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 21:19:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2029D14C0FA6 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:19:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from msa1.earth.yoonka.com (yoonka.com [88.98.225.149]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "msa1.earth.yoonka.com", Issuer "msa1.earth.yoonka.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6289682023 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:19:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from crayon2.yoonka.com (crayon2.yoonka.com [10.70.7.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by msa1.earth.yoonka.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x11LJRat074795 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:19:27 GMT (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Mark Blackman Cc: Stefan Bethke , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> <088AA858-AA5E-451A-90E9-016153C685C6@exonetric.com> From: Grzegorz Junka Message-ID: <926ad6f2-a901-f5b0-cd1a-03c313f3b85f@gjunka.com> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:19:27 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <088AA858-AA5E-451A-90E9-016153C685C6@exonetric.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB-large X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6289682023 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list1@gjunka.com designates 88.98.225.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list1@gjunka.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:88.98.225.149]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: gjunka.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.74)[-0.737,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:56478, ipnet:88.98.192.0/18, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gjunka.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.53), ipnet: 88.98.192.0/18(-4.77), asn: 56478(-3.81), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 21:19:31 -0000 On 01/02/2019 20:07, Mark Blackman wrote: > >> On 1 Feb 2019, at 19:39, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >> >>> On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >>> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? >> There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. The team I am working with is using docker during development (by using a preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use FreeBSD during the development but it proved difficult. I now have a choice of either switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook Pro - both supporting docker out of the box. > In this case, the problem you were trying to solves sounds something like “how do I collaborate with my team who have already chosen docker while sticking with my preferred OS” > > The problem your team was trying to solve was “how do I avoid building a complex backend system on development/CI machines?” > > I do believe there is some value in mimicking docker without actually being docker and jetpack had a go at that. > > - Mark > I don't think the team was trying to solve any problem. They just picked up docker because of fashion, it was proposed by one developer and others just stuck with it as it makes their life easier. But yes, you can see it as such (as you described). Anyway, jetpack is based on Vagrant, uses ansible and Go and is experimental. As I said, I spent one day trying to set it up and it was already too much (they don't pay me for setting up my development environment but for implementing code). I just didn't have time to try other solutions, and jetpack didn't look like something that could be set up quickly (especially that I build my packages, so would need to add the time needed to build Vagrant and missing dependencies to it). However, jetpack has been mentioned here before and I see the code is fairly up to date so might have a go at trying to use it when I find some time. Thanks GrzegorzJ From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Fri Feb 1 22:04:34 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C90614C2AAC for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 22:04:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meka@tilda.center) Received: from mail.tilda.center (srv02.tilda.center [199.247.21.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF33285449 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 22:04:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meka@tilda.center) Received: from android-f9c8265451fadd59 (unknown [91.183.209.73]) by mail.tilda.center (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B31D18FE6; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 23:04:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 23:04:22 +0100 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: The status of docker To: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org, Grzegorz Junka , Mark Blackman CC: Stefan Bethke From: =?UTF-8?Q?Goran_Meki=C4=87?= Message-ID: <0CE9FE94-68B3-4634-B762-440E11E9D4C5@tilda.center> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: BF33285449 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of meka@tilda.center designates 199.247.21.11 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=meka@tilda.center X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.01 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(3.00)[73.209.183.91.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.4]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.998,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tilda.center]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.958,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mail.tilda.center]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.513,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.63)[ip: (-9.56), ipnet: 199.247.16.0/21(-4.51), asn: 20473(1.01), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:199.247.16.0/21, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 22:04:34 -0000 On 1 February 2019 20:39:31 CET, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? > >There is a misunderstanding=2E I am not trying to solve any problem=2E Th= e=20 >team I am working with is using docker during development (by using a=20 >preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend=20 >system on development/CI machines)=2E I was hoping to use FreeBSD during= =20 >the development but it proved difficult=2E I now have a choice of either= =20 >switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook >Pro=20 >- both supporting docker out of the box=2E > >Thanks > >GrzegorzJ > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-virtualization@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization >To unsubscribe, send any mail to >"freebsd-virtualization-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg" Does it have to be docker? When I faced similar problem, I thought it was = wise to invest time in development inside jail, so I wrote Reggae based on = CBSD=2E I'll publish a bugfix version as soon as i get back from FOSDEM so = you might give it a try=2E I wrote few ansible playbooks for services I nee= ded in jail like PostgreSQL, RabbitMQ, mail based on postfix+dovecot, etc= =2E Reggae is inspired by docker compose and Vagrant, hence you can run mul= tiple jails per project, like docker compose=2E --=20 FreeB(eer)S(ex)D(drugs) are the real demons From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Sat Feb 2 11:59:45 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263D214BAE82 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 11:59:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from msa1.earth.yoonka.com (yoonka.com [88.98.225.149]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "msa1.earth.yoonka.com", Issuer "msa1.earth.yoonka.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C6A58551A for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 11:59:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from crayon2.yoonka.com (crayon2.yoonka.com [10.70.7.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by msa1.earth.yoonka.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x12Bxe5j092045 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Feb 2019 11:59:40 GMT (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: =?UTF-8?Q?Goran_Meki=c4=87?= , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org, Mark Blackman Cc: Stefan Bethke References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> <0CE9FE94-68B3-4634-B762-440E11E9D4C5@tilda.center> From: Grzegorz Junka Message-ID: <43008c1f-488c-7f48-3f58-61679286c19c@gjunka.com> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 11:59:40 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0CE9FE94-68B3-4634-B762-440E11E9D4C5@tilda.center> Content-Language: en-GB-large X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1C6A58551A X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list1@gjunka.com designates 88.98.225.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list1@gjunka.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.67 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:88.98.225.149]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gjunka.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: gjunka.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.714,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.53), ipnet: 88.98.192.0/18(-4.77), asn: 56478(-3.81), country: GB(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:56478, ipnet:88.98.192.0/18, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2019 11:59:45 -0000 On 01/02/2019 22:04, Goran Mekić wrote: > On 1 February 2019 20:39:31 CET, Grzegorz Junka wrote: > > On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: > > What problem are you trying to solve with docker? > > > There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. The > team I am working with is using docker during development (by using a > preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend > system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use FreeBSD during > the development but it proved difficult. I now have a choice of either > switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook Pro > - both supporting docker out of the box. > > Thanks > > GrzegorzJ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > Does it have to be docker? When I faced similar problem, I thought it > was wise to invest time in development inside jail, so I wrote Reggae > based on CBSD. I'll publish a bugfix version as soon as i get back > from FOSDEM so you might give it a try. I wrote few ansible playbooks > for services I needed in jail like PostgreSQL, RabbitMQ, mail based on > postfix+dovecot, etc. Reggae is inspired by docker compose and > Vagrant, hence you can run multiple jails per project, like docker > compose. > Well, only I am using FreeBSD. The others are using Macs for development. So technically it makes more sense for me to use their tools rather than trying to convince them to switch to FreeBSD and use jails. Reggae sounds great but sadly it's not going to help me here. GrzegorzJ From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Sat Feb 2 13:14:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BFAC14BD55B for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 13:14:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [178.250.72.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9AC8789B for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 13:14:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from imac.localdomain (90.69.187.81.in-addr.arpa [81.187.69.90]) by relay.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF7922B26E; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 13:14:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Mark Blackman Message-Id: <51ED3AFB-2A77-43B0-9516-96FDBB18A498@exonetric.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: The status of docker Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 13:14:00 +0000 In-Reply-To: <43008c1f-488c-7f48-3f58-61679286c19c@gjunka.com> Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Goran_Meki=C4=87?= , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org, Stefan Bethke To: Grzegorz Junka References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> <0CE9FE94-68B3-4634-B762-440E11E9D4C5@tilda.center> <43008c1f-488c-7f48-3f58-61679286c19c@gjunka.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 1A9AC8789B X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.21 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.49)[0.490,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[exonetric.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.99)[0.991,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: exonetric.com.in.heluna.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.98)[0.982,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12290, ipnet:178.250.72.0/21, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.26)[ipnet: 178.250.72.0/21(1.04), asn: 12290(0.33), country: GB(-0.09)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2019 13:14:04 -0000 > On 2 Feb 2019, at 11:59, Grzegorz Junka wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 01/02/2019 22:04, Goran Meki=C4=87 wrote: >> On 1 February 2019 20:39:31 CET, Grzegorz Junka = wrote: >> On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? >>=20 >> There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. = The=20 >> team I am working with is using docker during development (by using a=20= >> preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend=20= >> system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use FreeBSD = during=20 >> the development but it proved difficult. I now have a choice of = either=20 >> switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook = Pro=20 >> - both supporting docker out of the box. >>=20 >> Thanks >>=20 >> GrzegorzJ >> freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org = mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization = >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-virtualization-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" = >>=20 >> Does it have to be docker? When I faced similar problem, I thought it = was wise to invest time in development inside jail, so I wrote Reggae = based on CBSD. I'll publish a bugfix version as soon as i get back from = FOSDEM so you might give it a try. I wrote few ansible playbooks for = services I needed in jail like PostgreSQL, RabbitMQ, mail based on = postfix+dovecot, etc. Reggae is inspired by docker compose and Vagrant, = hence you can run multiple jails per project, like docker compose. >>=20 >=20 > Well, only I am using FreeBSD. The others are using Macs for = development. So technically it makes more sense for me to use their = tools rather than trying to convince them to switch to FreeBSD and use = jails. >=20 > Reggae sounds great but sadly it's not going to help me here. >=20 > GrzegorzJ >=20 I always liked Bryan Cantrill=E2=80=99s dissection of Docker=E2=80=99s = virtues here: https://www.joyent.com/blog/dockers-killer-feature = And I=E2=80=99ve seen a few people suggest the most crucial contribution = of docker was the docker image format. - Mark= From owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Sat Feb 2 16:40:59 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-virtualization@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D876F14C2F37 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 16:40:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from msa1.earth.yoonka.com (yoonka.com [88.98.225.149]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "msa1.earth.yoonka.com", Issuer "msa1.earth.yoonka.com" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16AE78E1D6 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2019 16:40:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Received: from crayon2.yoonka.com (crayon2.yoonka.com [10.70.7.20]) (authenticated bits=0) by msa1.earth.yoonka.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x12Gervn095813 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Feb 2019 16:40:54 GMT (envelope-from list1@gjunka.com) Subject: Re: The status of docker To: Mark Blackman Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Goran_Meki=c4=87?= , freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org, Stefan Bethke References: <089e330d-2761-2440-3b7f-dd22e9088af5@gjunka.com> <929CF558-E8CC-4F7D-9C30-DDD63C17861D@lassitu.de> <94964BDE-7B14-424B-88A5-4D8F4A9AAC56@exonetric.com> <83736f61-abe9-d85f-a782-1b684808678c@gjunka.com> <0CE9FE94-68B3-4634-B762-440E11E9D4C5@tilda.center> <43008c1f-488c-7f48-3f58-61679286c19c@gjunka.com> <51ED3AFB-2A77-43B0-9516-96FDBB18A498@exonetric.com> From: Grzegorz Junka Message-ID: <72bf109c-1b3f-bfc8-c918-f408f64384bd@gjunka.com> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 16:40:53 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <51ED3AFB-2A77-43B0-9516-96FDBB18A498@exonetric.com> Content-Language: en-GB-large X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 16AE78E1D6 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of list1@gjunka.com designates 88.98.225.149 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=list1@gjunka.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.82 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:88.98.225.149]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gjunka.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: gjunka.com]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.867,0]; IP_SCORE(-3.64)[ip: (-9.53), ipnet: 88.98.192.0/18(-4.77), asn: 56478(-3.81), country: GB(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:56478, ipnet:88.98.192.0/18, country:GB]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of various virtualization techniques FreeBSD supports." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2019 16:40:59 -0000 On 02/02/2019 13:14, Mark Blackman wrote: > On 2 Feb 2019, at 11:59, Grzegorz Junka > wrote: >> On 01/02/2019 22:04, Goran Mekić wrote: >>> On 1 February 2019 20:39:31 CET, Grzegorz Junka >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 31/01/2019 07:50, Mark Blackman wrote: >>> >>> What problem are you trying to solve with docker? >>> >>> >>> There is a misunderstanding. I am not trying to solve any problem. The >>> team I am working with is using docker during development (by using a >>> preconfigured container they avoid having to setup a complex backend >>> system on development/CI machines). I was hoping to use FreeBSD during >>> the development but it proved difficult. I now have a choice of either >>> switching to Linux natively (as bhyve didn't help) or to use MacBook Pro >>> - both supporting docker out of the box. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> GrzegorzJ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-virtualization >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to"freebsd-virtualization-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >>> >>> Does it have to be docker? When I faced similar problem, I thought >>> it was wise to invest time in development inside jail, so I wrote >>> Reggae based on CBSD. I'll publish a bugfix version as soon as i get >>> back from FOSDEM so you might give it a try. I wrote few ansible >>> playbooks for services I needed in jail like PostgreSQL, RabbitMQ, >>> mail based on postfix+dovecot, etc. Reggae is inspired by docker >>> compose and Vagrant, hence you can run multiple jails per project, >>> like docker compose. >>> >> >> Well, only I am using FreeBSD. The others are using Macs for >> development. So technically it makes more sense for me to use their >> tools rather than trying to convince them to switch to FreeBSD and >> use jails. >> >> Reggae sounds great but sadly it's not going to help me here. >> >> GrzegorzJ >> > I always liked Bryan Cantrill’s dissection of Docker’s virtues here: > > https://www.joyent.com/blog/dockers-killer-feature > > And I’ve seen a few people suggest the most crucial contribution of > docker was the docker image format. > Good read, thanks. This all boils down to simplicity as being the ultimate sophistication. People are lazy (in the good sense) and don't want to be reinventing the wheel. They would pay more for a device/software that solves more of their problems and is easier to use (vide MacOS vs Windows with their ecosystems), so that they can finish earlier and get on with their lives. I may be enjoying compiling packages on FreeBSD and manually configuring the network but I can hardly expect someone from my team to do the same. Docker simplifies their life and I can't blame them for using it. I can only wish there was a similar tool to achieve the same with bhyve/jail. GrzegorzJ