From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Feb 1 17:12:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4461FCD29; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 17:12:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [18.222.6.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4890yD047Bz3Hy6; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 17:12:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (unknown [18.188.142.31]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1850513E43; Sat, 1 Feb 2020 17:12:19 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 17:12:18 +0000 From: Mark Linimon To: Ihor Antonov Cc: Justin Hibbits , freebsd-arm , Paul Mather , Poul-Henning Kamp , freebsd-arch , Emmanuel Vadot , Robert Clausecker Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 Message-ID: <20200201171215.GB24259@lonesome.com> References: <17938.1575444597@critter.freebsd.dk> <20191204092402.GA82492@fuz.su> <78425.1580332298@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200129222907.3ccaf4c23fe8509e3f9cdfe4@bidouilliste.net> <84926.1580333803@critter.freebsd.dk> <20200130112932.46ccb9fe@titan.knownspace> <20200131203708.e5q3rij53jzr4req@sea-ll-10936> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200131203708.e5q3rij53jzr4req@sea-ll-10936> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4890yD047Bz3Hy6 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of linimon@lonesome.com has no SPF policy when checking 18.222.6.11) smtp.mailfrom=linimon@lonesome.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.93)[-0.933,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.19)[ip: (0.05), ipnet: 18.220.0.0/14(0.19), asn: 16509(-1.12), country: US(-0.05)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[lonesome.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.58)[-0.577,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[11.6.222.18.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:18.220.0.0/14, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 02 Feb 2020 10:33:34 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2020 17:12:21 -0000 On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 12:37:08PM -0800, Ihor Antonov wrote: > A good alternative to RPi are Pine64 devices. Same price level, open > hardware, specs (apart from broadcom wifi), and the company is very > interested in growing BSD support IIUC we're doing well on Pine64. I _personally_ think the machine is more interesting, which is why I have one of them. That said, Raspberry Pi won the "mindshare war" years ago. mcl From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Feb 7 14:19:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86C024D99B for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2020 14:19:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@kflag.net) Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com (mail-ed1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48Dcr53Bh5z4bZ9 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2020 14:19:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@kflag.net) Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id cy15so2559644edb.4 for ; Fri, 07 Feb 2020 06:19:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kflag.net; s=google; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KM/Mcpaz9eRexzt4SzdGOZas84Iv1GiBlD1jTsXi2Ls=; b=bWaxfSC4nIrluwXPyk/IGHaYUhnPAOiBIn+zsfDObcR9Gr/WGCYDArzBfb2Y13DeZ0 b4ecC+eGBJKl0/jSYTclsCUkdojE39NOKlPBVgc1B5E0rMiMg2Er0fezzaf8c7GN5lb3 T5WACHxQBN5fQDIsWTXMIIqKeTWW9GQPHV7pw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KM/Mcpaz9eRexzt4SzdGOZas84Iv1GiBlD1jTsXi2Ls=; b=ELR99xbU465FkjxgSVCAMm3zoNlePMgyi7OWbxz6detsYZYUJu5jNFZ9l+n/1v7EmS +mY+WgEcYio3Y03paNTafGukMuuhZQnTUPT/olH/+hPezXDYO1yl0BRLwYYW2xksTCDc yVDHd1Ou4GovTzMfpxTd0zUe7pD7pzj3bzKPsGFG08RYFkTRgr9xCZcKNpPyEzJGKAI+ bBRNHuiU8+vmQvvKTXXu3a/FZH7/NgSznumqI+B/Do77OnhFA/Aj6N3HKzaVmh37z/0M vpH6M9KB5VXc0f12BBEc/wMLwcVurXEQYcZWg/lnQ6T1P7/JqGVg3HlQWHxV57pfN2Bj PXcA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUjcWOE/omJM2lbU+E8Rmido+KtO0TYxdPJS/8I7xwj6hh2w4H0 LuE9HXFp5EW5CryVXNS9m56bVLfBp/EPMl12MhnbvxO5PgtXJA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqytRA9hooKtJFtQnb4l8yHn6Sm+5K/h3/0hZe1CcbDF4zCHpCLyNOFemSuSWRMnIdwdjFoIxfGE3e/kXps1S2Y= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:61a:: with SMTP id n26mr7530974edv.135.1581085170889; Fri, 07 Feb 2020 06:19:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Josh Aas Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 09:19:20 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: updating cron and atrun To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48Dcr53Bh5z4bZ9 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=kflag.net header.s=google header.b=bWaxfSC4; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of josh@kflag.net has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::52c) smtp.mailfrom=josh@kflag.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.07 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[kflag.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kflag.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[kflag.net:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[c.2.5.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(-2.77)[ip: (-9.56), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.49), asn: 15169(-1.74), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2020 14:19:34 -0000 I was looking for a way to contribute to FreeBSD and I decided to look into the cron/atrun project listed on this page: https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#Improve_cron.288.29_and_atrun.288.29 I looked into the current code, commits from the past decade, and the lineage of other versions of cron to see if there is a reasonable plan for updating FreeBSD=E2=80=99s cron based on another version. It doesn't se= em like there are any particularly productive new path to take here. ISC cron is old and unmaintained, and I don=E2=80=99t think NetBSD or OpenBSD c= ron is interesting enough to be worth entirely rebasing on. On top of that, FreeBSD cron seems to have some FreeBSD-specific functionality that we=E2=80=99d still need to maintain or =E2=80=9Cupstream=E2=80=9D else= where. I=E2=80=99d recommend continuing with the current status quo - keep FreeBSD= =E2=80=99s version of cron and occasionally pull in security/stability patches as applicable from OpenBSD or NetBSD. The other options are a lot of work for little (if any) gain. Happy to hear other opinions though. Integrating atrun into cron might be nice but isn=E2=80=99t very interestin= g IMO. Seems very possible that the cost of that churn outweighs the benefit. I=E2=80=99d love to hear more about why this is a particularly goo= d idea if people believe it is. Maybe I=E2=80=99m missing something. If people agree I=E2=80=99d recommend removing the cron and atrun suggestio= n on the Ideas Page. Maintaining that page seems like a pain though, might I recommend keeping track of these ideas as bugzilla bugs, tagged with something like =E2=80=9Cideaslist=E2=80=9D? Then you can just l= ink to that search. --=20 Josh Aas From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Feb 7 20:53:25 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1879422DAD8 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2020 20:53:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darkfiberiru@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x144.google.com (mail-lf1-x144.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::144]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48DnZW6Hcvz41KW for ; Fri, 7 Feb 2020 20:53:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darkfiberiru@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x144.google.com with SMTP id 203so230390lfa.12 for ; Fri, 07 Feb 2020 12:53:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9hYIWBEShm+hQNd6CFzo0XMHTP4oqinW9bUmtXq8J50=; b=CNmbhApIjdORp7IfyzPWvTpdkWptlQcinZdxXMf+z9PRgWGYKW5zNAisxzdK7Y8Ipc D1bGb6erdBAwU06Kfhf2Tjvjnj9jM6bFiQlhVzhQMlO2TTYBzT9SlyFr4B11otBj0BKG JJAk05XcckBd36d1y8gIgWNYiPlLYCNQi9uGQ9LWoR6MZarf/ewIB72Qvs7YJreUmrV0 CuMGepcLXgGFB+jVu5ySorOo8OFuqFZfKxityw3FqKL5L34Cr/3AfmegqzF5LzF2A+VA LK0+vk8M78DwhPjdoEDnJa7d3UC4FZjoI7huIZGbOZs8Dst1fQ2pVJOvylPItJEhaSGb DzBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9hYIWBEShm+hQNd6CFzo0XMHTP4oqinW9bUmtXq8J50=; b=LCxRESJjaN5tQ3DapQ3kbuHsaahC3npf1mlXPttbJZvHbO426Iu3ywHpS/QAcL3ND3 3qICevSfYDimcbs8xEntuYK8ChHJ8T0BMC2VVvBeu+felHIyvVhVhd8Y7lu1F+BQsr28 YixNoey/eOpVXxK9KhT5d6IsmsPGOZrPwilja+xIUBMZX39QhBtQVqN6D2CwL5FLGVmT p86RxhQt+skjlhcGXuVevV9WgCchTE8hLItFgVGOq2LHCE2124p6xbZ1iKX6mOqmxrxW d22M9eBivtopS+YVqNzhCPryMpj2GZXLnXwcPc2dwOufZgwSo1ZqCP8s0LuL012++15A Uj1w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVQIB1F5jiDwdecQOR07epGFmp3J8dNUZQov61VuZ2WdprAuxLA dyQi608R+lCqb0lf0BWJNj3wFMTkZ/nOyJLbmdmih2+4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwWnp5kWSaZ7DTopdw2zBES78uSr+xIwLbfx+nPjz3qqZsHp98+Ujsu9OfkKPiWZJk6qNzSL7qTjCUqCo9gaIs= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4945:: with SMTP id o5mr342016lfi.93.1581108801455; Fri, 07 Feb 2020 12:53:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Nick Wolff Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 15:53:07 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: updating cron and atrun To: Josh Aas Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48DnZW6Hcvz41KW X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=CNmbhApI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of darkfiberiru@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::144 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=darkfiberiru@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (2.57), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-2.49), asn: 15169(-1.74), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:53:25 -0000 John, Thanks for taking the time to do the research and review. On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 9:19 AM Josh Aas wrote: > I was looking for a way to contribute to FreeBSD and I decided to look > into the cron/atrun project listed on this page: > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#Improve_cron.288.29_and_atrun.288.29 > > I looked into the current code, commits from the past decade, and the > lineage of other versions of cron to see if there is a reasonable plan > for updating FreeBSD=E2=80=99s cron based on another version. It doesn't = seem > like there are any particularly productive new path to take here. ISC > cron is old and unmaintained, and I don=E2=80=99t think NetBSD or OpenBSD= cron > is interesting enough to be worth entirely rebasing on. On top of > that, FreeBSD cron seems to have some FreeBSD-specific functionality > that we=E2=80=99d still need to maintain or =E2=80=9Cupstream=E2=80=9D el= sewhere. > > I=E2=80=99d recommend continuing with the current status quo - keep FreeB= SD=E2=80=99s > version of cron and occasionally pull in security/stability patches as > applicable from OpenBSD or NetBSD. The other options are a lot of work > for little (if any) gain. Happy to hear other opinions though. > > Integrating atrun into cron might be nice but isn=E2=80=99t very interest= ing > IMO. Seems very possible that the cost of that churn outweighs the > benefit. I=E2=80=99d love to hear more about why this is a particularly g= ood > idea if people believe it is. Maybe I=E2=80=99m missing something. > > If people agree I=E2=80=99d recommend removing the cron and atrun suggest= ion > on the Ideas Page. Maintaining that page seems like a pain though, > might I recommend keeping track of these ideas as bugzilla bugs, > tagged with something like =E2=80=9Cideaslist=E2=80=9D? Then you can just= link to that > search. > > -- > Josh Aas > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Feb 8 19:30:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F06249955 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:30:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48FMhd1YXrz4Bn5 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:30:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (v-critter.freebsd.dk [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1055E1AF101; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:30:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 018JUW6N006703 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:30:32 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 018JUVT3006702; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:30:31 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Josh Aas cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: updating cron and atrun In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6700.1581190231.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2020 19:30:31 +0000 Message-ID: <6701.1581190231@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48FMhd1YXrz4Bn5 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of phk@critter.freebsd.dk designates 130.225.244.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=phk@critter.freebsd.dk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.963,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.973,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.04)[ip: (0.06), ipnet: 130.225.0.0/16(0.07), asn: 1835(0.08), country: EU(-0.01)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2020 19:30:43 -0000 -------- In message , Josh Aas writes: Thanks for looking into this. Is at(1) something people actually use these days, or should it be disabled by default ? -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= . From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Feb 8 19:39:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED16249BCA for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:39:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from byond.lenox@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-f194.google.com (mail-qt1-f194.google.com [209.85.160.194]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48FMtd0pTsz4CCF for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:39:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from byond.lenox@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-f194.google.com with SMTP id l21so1400986qtr.8 for ; Sat, 08 Feb 2020 11:39:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G22HUy3a1xIIjJRzNzO84VOAoeQOkAcQzuFnDnpElbg=; b=ZDLB6+1bzsI/HBDZ/1MQHwKuqUb1cbN/vEZuBW/2PK7O2R9vs3VAEtOuenhlGYcvjv 6TBef3P9PgH6aMOf9GkvHMRaKGqcyxzh+gW5qv/BF4SxzAdwQZjGQUibRTBdQHHq4f99 6xg6F8ZlDUa5FWsBiwv+XZ/claHH+Mw4fK5sajHjR7NfEaxbeUA4HLcM/KXdgR6rcqRI RtaMcS4wY622vkCYzMLWYBZcaOFNUfVwh2XjaQ0dhvvoP+Uq+5eTcjBHGs8Yo7v7B0zz eqq1wHLr+icOQ4MxhuYD4TytEoV3UAe96hkG3Yu1a+UwksicezPLez5crwhNYwo/UpGc TTtg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW+siOtL37fLCJ48pCO8vcOXm9IsXjuvk5BTZf3VyaUja1floby 8Wv4PHKtbaAcDX256b8eP0ehHMa1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzMhCCWGwrgXg6AtgIFBOFvtxudBBct0rvT8TINcNVoHxNpTIEHgTP8zfnmlaawun1IwEigbg== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3254:: with SMTP id y20mr2618698qta.20.1581190759814; Sat, 08 Feb 2020 11:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt1-f181.google.com (mail-qt1-f181.google.com. [209.85.160.181]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g18sm3269338qki.13.2020.02.08.11.39.19 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 08 Feb 2020 11:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-f181.google.com with SMTP id d5so2161149qto.0 for ; Sat, 08 Feb 2020 11:39:19 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:aed:3f70:: with SMTP id q45mr3879030qtf.310.1581190759281; Sat, 08 Feb 2020 11:39:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 13:39:07 -0600 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: updating cron and atrun To: Josh Aas Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48FMtd0pTsz4CCF X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of byondlenox@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.194 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=byondlenox@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.88 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[194.160.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.18]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kyle-evans.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[194.160.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-1.88)[ip: (-4.58), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.02), asn: 15169(-1.74), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[self@kyle-evans.net,byondlenox@gmail.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[self@kyle-evans.net,byondlenox@gmail.com] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 08 Feb 2020 19:45:07 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2020 19:39:22 -0000 On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 8:19 AM Josh Aas wrote: > > I was looking for a way to contribute to FreeBSD and I decided to look > into the cron/atrun project listed on this page: > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#Improve_cron.288.29_and_atrun.288.29 > > I looked into the current code, commits from the past decade, and the > lineage of other versions of cron to see if there is a reasonable plan > for updating FreeBSD=E2=80=99s cron based on another version. It doesn't = seem > like there are any particularly productive new path to take here. ISC > cron is old and unmaintained, and I don=E2=80=99t think NetBSD or OpenBSD= cron > is interesting enough to be worth entirely rebasing on. On top of > that, FreeBSD cron seems to have some FreeBSD-specific functionality > that we=E2=80=99d still need to maintain or =E2=80=9Cupstream=E2=80=9D el= sewhere. > > I=E2=80=99d recommend continuing with the current status quo - keep FreeB= SD=E2=80=99s > version of cron and occasionally pull in security/stability patches as > applicable from OpenBSD or NetBSD. The other options are a lot of work > for little (if any) gain. Happy to hear other opinions though. > > Integrating atrun into cron might be nice but isn=E2=80=99t very interest= ing > IMO. Seems very possible that the cost of that churn outweighs the > benefit. I=E2=80=99d love to hear more about why this is a particularly g= ood > idea if people believe it is. Maybe I=E2=80=99m missing something. > > If people agree I=E2=80=99d recommend removing the cron and atrun suggest= ion > on the Ideas Page. Maintaining that page seems like a pain though, > might I recommend keeping track of these ideas as bugzilla bugs, > tagged with something like =E2=80=9Cideaslist=E2=80=9D? Then you can just= link to that > search. > Hi, I'd be inclined to agree- with cron, we've pulled in some features from OpenBSD and I suspect it'd be easier to continue to do so as our path forward. For anyone's general curiosity, below is an email I wrote when asked about bringing in OpenBSD's (or any new) implementation whole-sale; it's not a complete assessment of our local changes/status, but my thoughts on bare minimum extra work needed to bring in any other implementation. --- Hello! I'm actually mostly indifferent to cron(8) -- I've just been taking up patches otherwise not getting any attention. =3D-) These are the main things we'd probably want to audit/ensure are available in any new implementation: - MAILFROM support - /etc/cron.d and /usr/local/etc/cron.d support - making sure any new implementation properly registers changes to files within as requiring a database reload Worth noting is that we also support @every_minute and @every_second, and @ syntax that would need to be reimplemented -- I don't know about the first two, but I know that we have active users of @ as I've fielded bug reports from one group of them that uses it for $work-type stuff. Some of our recent additions are ports from OpenBSD, like -n and -q per-job flags. Thanks, Kyle Evans From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Feb 8 20:17:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C8224AB9B for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 20:17:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=Ulut=34=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48FNkQ2FjZz4FbS for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 20:17:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=Ulut=34=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F9328423; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 21:17:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from illbsd.quip.test (ip-62-24-92-232.net.upcbroadband.cz [62.24.92.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A156728416; Sat, 8 Feb 2020 21:17:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: updating cron and atrun To: Poul-Henning Kamp , Josh Aas Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org References: <6701.1581190231@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Message-ID: <1aaf3f7e-c3cd-e7b9-deff-d5765df2c566@quip.cz> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 21:17:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6701.1581190231@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48FNkQ2FjZz4FbS X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of SRS0=Ulut=34=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz has no SPF policy when checking 94.124.105.4) smtp.mailfrom=SRS0=Ulut=34=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.46 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.86)[ip: (0.33), ipnet: 94.124.104.0/21(0.17), asn: 42000(3.68), country: CZ(0.09)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[quip.cz]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.41)[0.406,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.105.124.94.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[000.fbsd@quip.cz,SRS0=Ulut=34=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42000, ipnet:94.124.104.0/21, country:CZ]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[000.fbsd@quip.cz,SRS0=Ulut=34=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2020 20:17:19 -0000 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote on 2020/02/08 20:30: > -------- > In message > , Josh Aas writes: > > Thanks for looking into this. > > Is at(1) something people actually use these days, or should it be > disabled by default ? Maybe not used so often but personally I used it few month ago. Miroslav Lachman