From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Aug 30 06:36:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F4E3CCB63; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 06:36:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from home.opsec.eu (home.opsec.eu [IPv6:2001:14f8:200::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BfNrl1rhZz4fBV; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 06:36:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from pi by home.opsec.eu with local (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kCGwc-000PXJ-Eb; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 08:36:02 +0200 Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 08:36:02 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: Warner Losh Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: APM BIOS set to go in FreeBSD Message-ID: <20200830063602.GT3539@home.opsec.eu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BfNrl1rhZz4fBV X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12502, ipnet:2001:14f8::/32, country:DE] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 06:36:07 -0000 Hi! > APM BIOS support will likely be removed from FreeBSD for FreeBSD 13. This > was once quite important for LAPTOP users. However, it is now no longer > relevant. It stopped being supported around the time that ACPI started to > be released for laptops. This was around the Pentium 200MHz laptop > generation, give or take. ACPI was released in 1996 to replace APM, and had > largely done so by 2000. As such, this is 20-year obsolete technology. I think I still use it to this day for all my laptops to check the battery status and put the laptop to sleep. The commands I use are apm and zzz, and they still work. What would be replacement commands ? > To that end, I'm looking for actual users of this APM that have used the > technology successfully in FreeBSD 12.0 or newer. I can experiment and even can provide you remote access to laptops of that kind. -- pi@opsec.eu +49 171 3101372 Now what ? From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Aug 30 06:57:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE763CE191 for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 06:57:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BfPKZ3my1z4gXW for ; Sun, 30 Aug 2020 06:57:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id u3so3497089qkd.9 for ; Sat, 29 Aug 2020 23:57:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=unhe+KX8Z9BEVCnYotH/RayNZGwYgI5DnZ8HudXbzZA=; b=XyS1oOdkCV1zR0iIIpSsBmYmOQcaXXAUP+DGq8I82KxQvVfMo/0QJkKwL2Xzde+8CB YGiyQG/yellgVI48E7GZCipB6tyXxLwivBvRmTfs/WPztpCuiROMKD6+hyupKIdZJ+8y ePPL2b3Up8MK24oKSRHDesAHoT2LWQ6/M/Y/nMkoQiZvR9biECeWw+NKztpd7zMooihw +5u8Iw+5lrtFG0FGwSUCIxeABHGHiVghZvbeym7QUI0/SyGaFiPzZzw8/OmSzFf6Jl5u gtFCOyb3e9ChWYlVyZ+1BKQgxxtXqCPeGL8Yod+WU+pNcB5ghC901H5T5aQlFTxA/aAd utXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=unhe+KX8Z9BEVCnYotH/RayNZGwYgI5DnZ8HudXbzZA=; b=iZC/O8CFTzqIyBuxgTvjj4xaX+t084ohVrPwXz+T2xIpR/hO2FQa6RPK6eSKTTV1+l M2Frd0VqB2bRrXrZcjCfpQO5daJwTyN2FThX7x47ibrOz3bGubHeV3DEyDbT9LHS+MIZ woJNh3lar9g+Flh0SfGIrgtMykfJbYKy9nNfzhJ1wDIRUaI9RPEYYb4oAShwxe8ni/na hvAHybKpEkaA9Ah1/mC4KGcKsrk4mBoLLpFff/At/CiY0HGV5T8IsjOUO9tgueTYPjoj /cvLwMTI2yLf8Jmh5QQrJaKDWMdAbngD6Vl5/tlA7qOZn9vfaW+Zqpb+DkNqKMFx0qBG Q5vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vyQnD0F476Sypr7twxnvbVcKYbWpocjcDooG24CqqE0tLY5Pf fgtk/QqBNQ6vckp1XWdy2nK/qtakmquJphbRTAor0w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzLcGYqZCSKc40uPGHavxrRuY9v/1ejHw1+D2oyJMl/x020X0ryGnvf2o+2z3mCNP1jJ2/+NlbxXC5k85Uf2RE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:686:: with SMTP id f6mr6199917qkh.60.1598770657357; Sat, 29 Aug 2020 23:57:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200830063602.GT3539@home.opsec.eu> In-Reply-To: <20200830063602.GT3539@home.opsec.eu> From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 00:57:26 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: APM BIOS set to go in FreeBSD To: Kurt Jaeger Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BfPKZ3my1z4gXW X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=XyS1oOdk; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.82 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.966]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.85)[-0.852]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.007]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 06:57:41 -0000 On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 12:36 AM Kurt Jaeger wrote: > Hi! > > > APM BIOS support will likely be removed from FreeBSD for FreeBSD 13. This > > was once quite important for LAPTOP users. However, it is now no longer > > relevant. It stopped being supported around the time that ACPI started to > > be released for laptops. This was around the Pentium 200MHz laptop > > generation, give or take. ACPI was released in 1996 to replace APM, and > had > > largely done so by 2000. As such, this is 20-year obsolete technology. > > I think I still use it to this day for all my laptops to check > the battery status and put the laptop to sleep. > The commands I use are apm and zzz, and they still work. > Those commands don't invoke the APM BIOS. instead, they call into ACPI under the covers. Only really really old laptops from the 1990s still have that interface... > What would be replacement commands ? > I'd planned on keeping these commands alive. This is just the Advanced Power Management BIOS I plan on killing. These commands just call the old APM ioctls, which ACPI implements. I had no plans on killing those.... Just the APM BIOS support in the kernel because it does weird things that I'd like to retire. > > To that end, I'm looking for actual users of this APM that have used the > > technology successfully in FreeBSD 12.0 or newer. > > I can experiment and even can provide you remote access to laptops of that > kind. > You have Pentium 200 or slower machines with APM BIOS still in service? :) I can test the apm/zzz commands on my laptops... I often type those w/o thinking due to old muscle memory. Warner