From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Sat Jan 11 22:22:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F871F6685 for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 22:22:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from silver.bullet@zoho.com) Received: from sender4-pp-o96.zoho.com (sender4-pp-o96.zoho.com [136.143.188.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47wDqW1wcJz4YKw for ; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 22:22:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from silver.bullet@zoho.com) Received: from archlinux (x5d8732f6.dyn.telefonica.de [93.135.50.246]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1578781322204438.44765620204794; Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:22:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Subject: Images on computers - Was: Re: Basic photo viewing/editing for Xfce? From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Cc: tundra@tundraware.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:22:07 +0100 References: <78acd336c2bba706f3bc97e5171a5afc205a2ed4.camel@rocketmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47wDqW1wcJz4YKw X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[zoho.com:s=zm2020]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[246.50.135.93.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[zoho.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:136.143.188.0/23]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[zoho.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[zoho.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[zoho.com,reject]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[zoho.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2639, ipnet:136.143.188.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ipnet: 136.143.188.0/24(-4.73), asn: 2639(-3.21), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 22:22:16 -0000 On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:20:57 -0600, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > On 1/11/20 1:43 PM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > > On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:11:38 -0500, Jerry wrote: =20 > > > The question you have to ask yourself is which is more > > > important to you, cost or usability? =20 > > Unfortunately there is a third question. > >=20 > > Are we willing to stand a restricted proprietary policy? =20 >=20 > I have been a serious photographer for over 4 decades. I still > shoot mostly film and process it myself in a wet darkroom. Hi, I'm more a musician and drawer, but somewhere boxed in a cellar room I've got some rotten (wet/)analog darkroom gear. > When I do shoot digital images, I use a pro-level Nikon D FX series > camera. I find GIMP (and Darktable) not restrictive in any meaningful > way. These tools far exceed my photo manipulation requirements. The > ONLY reason to use Photoshop is that it is the default go-to for > professional studios and production houses. That's where the pro > ecosystem was built and remains. This doesn't make it better, it's > just the standard among pros. It depends on what you want to achieve. I'm not a fan of photography, but through my life I've done some photography, manipulating images already when developing the film, as well as when develop pictures from the film, but even by using brushes and air brush to manipulate already developed photos. The digital domain is better for those purposes, since it's easy to correct accidents, let alone that it's less time consuming to mask a segment using e.g. GIMP, than when using foil and a scalpel to do some airbrush. > There are limitations to GIMP. If you're shooting with a 16bit/color, > 100Mpix back on a $50,000 digital camera, yeah, GIMP will be limiting. > But for the 99.9999% of people who are manipulating far lower end > imagery, GIMP is just fine. But in this case, you're likely working > on a Mac, not reading freebsd-questions :) GIMP improved a lot, I doubt that it's that limited nowadays. In my experiences GIMP became unstable. When using GIMP I usually switch from "default" mode to "legacy" mode for the layers, to improve stability a little bit. However, it's said that GIMP does high bit depth, radiometrically correct editing etc. nowadays. > In any case, the effort very few people bother with that makes way > more of a difference than photo editor: Calibrating their monitor > and printer (if they print their own stuff). Color space matching is > crucial if you want to get a final result that looks like what you see > on screen. As already pointed out related to Krita, display colour settings could be a PITA, especially when using good EIZO or Apple displays. FWIW among other I'm using a cheap EIZO display that simply is sRGB, but this already doesn't work with the Krita sRGB settings, at least GIMP does. Calibrating the monitor already starts with a correct colour setting provided by the software. If the software already fails, you don't need to spend any effort in calibrating the monitor. > P.S. I would also note that most people vastly over manipulate their > images. > I have seen more garish dreck produced with excessive HDR and > color saturation adjustment than the most stoned filthy hippie > painter in the 1960s could have imagined ... Mushroom influenced pseudo-solarization :). > P.P.S. A few examples of my work - some with fairly low rent > equipment. All of the digital stuff and scans of the silver > prinnts edited with GIMP on an unremarkable Linux desktop: >=20 > Digital: > https://www.tundraware.com/Photography/MyPhotographs/DigiPix/=20 The water photos remind me of those photos somebody has done in the forest using special light, to make parts of the nature looking in a fluorescent alike way. IOW the manipulation was done in the first place, not by editing the photos. Analog: > https://www.tundraware.com/Photography/MyPhotographs/Silver/ While in general I like colour more than black and white, I prefer those analog photos from you over your digital photos. I suspect it's possible to do the same with digital gear, too. I like them. It's a pity that I can't see the original photo. Regards, Ralf --=20 =E2=80=9CAwards are merely the badges of mediocrity.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=95 Charles Ives=20