From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Tue Jun 9 14:43:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8024A32F5BC for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from silver.bullet@zoho.com) Received: from sender4-pp-o94.zoho.com (sender4-pp-o94.zoho.com [136.143.188.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49hCXR4DFrz3Vk0 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:43:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from silver.bullet@zoho.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1591713780; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=CJjjElfgMeMO8ClcBMNHzzzODTs3MslBGpp9KoIwYDxkbsSFY3/YrBez/hnupZ5TrN7VLrLg8KyS6CrGhIq7Qj4M9CGks2W/pvRGoCecYYqbMlCM+7zjk9sbzO9tEtNu5Le7J7jcgE3SdkiHirXOr5n4Pjxpy4yVquATIYMt4gI= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1591713780; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:From:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Subject:To; bh=sjBuxYninDA/eD+GMxm+F+X+IDS98c4RuWjSxp21Iqk=; b=j6p5IPE9K2lunPjcLah99MBcFyQ5nC7UDzH7mm28mZ/yHf8yVVZvvejbbiU67iKY/QMferxBka0m2KvDLVN8+LX9je3WJG7S5JXCn8Cwu7f+ROuDxiS8DCc8jCG2ihA/IvrdT0hlMQsinjRDd69pPi7RZaEOLznzEmri28GSQvY= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=zoho.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=silver.bullet@zoho.com; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= Received: from utnubu (x4e308f09.dyn.telefonica.de [78.48.143.9]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1591713777695828.7497973081109; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 07:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 16:42:56 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: [moved from FreeBSD User questions] "I run ArchLinux and never look back" - Kindu Smith Message-ID: <20200609164256.1bb9f09a@utnubu> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49hCXR4DFrz3Vk0 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.017]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[zoho.com:s=zm2020]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[zoho.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[zohomail.com:s=zohoarc:i=1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[78.48.143.9:received]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:136.143.188.0/23]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[zoho.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[zoho.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[136.143.188.94:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.43)[-0.426]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[zoho.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2639, ipnet:136.143.188.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[zoho.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 14:43:04 -0000 Hi, for good reasons I moved this thread. https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2020-June/289988.html On Tue, 09 Jun 2020 21:28:12 +0800, kindu smith wrote: >Secondly, it drives all my hardware, including sound card, nvidia >graphics card, wireless network card, screen brightness and touchpad. Interesting, the reason for me to use FreeBSD for the first time was, that Linux didn't and still doesn't fully support one of my audio cards. [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ aplay -l | head -2 **** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices **** card 0: HDSPMx579bcc [RME AIO_579bcc], device 0: RME AIO [RME AIO] Neither does FreeBSD, but I at least could test the IOs that don't work with Linux. However, without doubts more hardware vendors semi-support Linux, but don't care for BSD that much. >Third, its package manager pacman is very powerful and rock-solid. >Unlike debian's apt and dpkg, it needs to handle a lot of dependencies, >and onlyone pacman can handle all. That's nonsense. I'm used to pacman as well as apt/dpkg. Just building packages is more straight forward for Arch Linux and the port alike approach is nice. >Fourth, it uses systemd, so it starts quickly. As upstart did, too. >The inspiration for systemd is based on maccos launchd, which is even >better than it. And there is no need to buy Apple's expensive >hardware, it is plug-and- play, such as usb drive inserted into the >notebook can be quickly recognized. I don't care if it violates the >unix philosophy, because who cares. Actually I need to use Apple, since neither Linux nor FreeBSD satisfies all my needs related to pro-audio and drawing. >Fifth, it is highly customizable, you can install xfce, gnome, kde and >other desktops, unlike ubuntu, which only contains gnome by default. By default Arch Linux installs without a desktop environment at all, the same does an Ubuntu server image. While I'm in favour of Arch Linux, too, I also maintain a customized Ubuntu. One main difference is, that by default Ubuntu starts more or less everything when installing a package, so the user needs to remove autostarts and to disable services that are unwanted, while on Arch Linux the user has to enable more or less all services and autostarts. Ubuntu comes with several so called "flavours", providing OOTB installs of different desktop environments. There are a few differences, worth mentioning in this thread is probably that the release/LTS release approach has got its pros and cons, like the rolling release approach has got, too. >Seventh, it exists a wiki. As for Ubuntu, FreeBSD and ..., too. >Eighth, it also has a community-based source code package, AUR. Unlike >freebsd's concentration, it is more decentralized, but it solves many >of my problems. Ouch! I won't drop a note related to the AUR, the "Arch User Repository" and ABS, the "Arch build system", "ports-like system for building and packaging software". >Ninth, it is small, and there are not so many useless dependency >packages installed, that no taking up a lot of disk space. There are less dependencies, than for e.g. Ubuntu, since the packages aren't split. Since they aren't split, they easily could take more disk space, unless you don't use measures to avoid e.g. installing headers, if you don't need them, while Ubuntu provides e.g. headers by separated packages. >Tenth, it is based on X86, of course, it can also drive the server, but >few people try. Because it is only based on X86, it made my notebook a >good experience. *?* packages are compiled for x86_64 only nowadays, but ... ? >Of course, I also run freebsd in my oracle VM virtualbox, freebsd is >also my favorite operating system, its structure is even better, but it >is not available. The touchpad, nvidia graphics card, and wireless >network card are not recognized, and the screen cannot adjust the >brightness. It can't access the host's hardware directly when running in Virtualbox, instead it accesses the virtual hardware. >In addition, its startup code feels back to the 90s. What's wrong with an init system that is just this, an init system? >I also don't like gnu's grub, freebsd's btx bootloader seems better. I'm in favour of syslinux, but to be fair, it's possible to configure GRUB that minimal as syslinux. Using syslinux still makes sense, as using GRUB makes sense, too. It depends a little bit. You probably don't understand the pros and cons of different bootloaders. Regards, Ralf From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Tue Jun 9 14:45:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B599D32F6C7 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:45:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12e.google.com (mail-il1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49hCZz5bHXz3W8j for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:45:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id z2so20548724ilq.0 for ; Tue, 09 Jun 2020 07:45:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MPgAQDolDjFNPa4pmdfUOJtHiM/qxRduyCtu0LeTAuk=; b=WGjbuJqL8bcoaPaclMnjN2+4FRdtKNK5LAKMnjxrW9KNEeHXCv8c7NpCl5gOipLvIE JpE8WvwzzdazC922oce6mCKkfvUwTPwn5UOpqIwBEtB5IGzxY8+4QuIIAr7eVH+/PyIr NQ2112rzAGmISE3th49zaZVhcvmxNbXrgVLnQ9McdFMoDJe6KyukLN0SKE63/Q18wCpt NpsCXZxhtCCsTNDJlfuWe5kdFC97WQ2MSS/8zBBiy/1Cb8UnvV3cHWhnqv5P8Q24d3U8 tTCzaQT8YingYjkul4LTzRq6JJgLxeXrmhaaLPi3Atp8ZaeTCQGw474+rw04trP3leNw XKkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=MPgAQDolDjFNPa4pmdfUOJtHiM/qxRduyCtu0LeTAuk=; b=g4Gy2DiXYJCNL9g2OeXndL7ENDcDnESw5NUGJQfM1NyGzRnmSPAldsUV83GOacXTOG WMoU9W6C9s1GHZEfpYAPpud1kad0/0mplg0n0y1omffKpbeRtR7yW1+k0aH4WUmddLtr x7S8gkFP2zFjkFIum03USRObQNsByac7ul4hGAud4AtzaDurZTff3Cc86FutOHhrOb8V ENdP/fGs/dJPBpQImXWLsILQiHOmA4iOusxenMAxctxMC7pCbMHHr6rdm1AO7c8eHCW2 SkbcNxFRyEbQG6iqB8w97RbXWlzJtaVTaDfpxWADacw3HaJ3rVyAwijM3teb7djrFT8T 1hJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530QGuiV7EFxBqT2z5EXp+LImvuGfwQ9zXSt122p0sT/yRsGHRdK nxfAzE8sLvJSceZi7wh2Hpwpmc6RVHmU5KSOT8Wcn0vu X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJygQ4wu0/kz6vapAHSKFkbAezvFEQ7R9VY0JCiWDSig5JO3TQ7aJVF23CPejJC5N7EJK2HGQ3fQk/F3aKRnar4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:6c9:: with SMTP id p9mr25484974ils.185.1591713914227; Tue, 09 Jun 2020 07:45:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:45:02 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Fwd: I run ArchLinux and never look back To: FreeBSD chat X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49hCZz5bHXz3W8j X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=WGjbuJqL; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.98 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.940]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-chat@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.04)[-0.037]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 14:45:16 -0000 In keeping with Ralf's proposal to move it char ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:00 AM Subject: Re: I run ArchLinux and never look back To: Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List What does this have to do with FreeBSD except for some misconceptions about it and what it can do? On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:29 AM kindu smith wrote: > archlinux is the only Unix-like operating system that I run on my > laptop. The reason I chose archlinux is because > > First of all, it is a rolling release, so everything is up-to-date, > gcc10.1.0, clang10, gnome3.36.2, kernel 5.7.1. So there is nothing to > stop my love of archlinux.although I don=E2=80=99t know how to keep it up= to > date , But it=E2=80=99s the latest\ Not knowing how to update is a problem and I would consider that a minus. As to versions FreeBSD (via ports) has gcc 11, llvm/clang 11, gnome 3.28. So I have no idea why Linux people think we are so "slow" in keeping up with versions! > Secondly, it drives all my hardware, including sound card, nvidia > graphics card, wireless network card, screen brightness and touchpad. > My nVidia card works perfectly and always has using the nVidia driver from ports (worked on the first try with no special configs and contrary to some people's impression does have full support for wayland), I don't use wifi for security reasons but never heard any complaint about its support, screen brightness is not an issue on my desktop so never played with it same with touchpad but never heard any complaints about them on FreeBSD. > > Third, its package manager pacman is very powerful and rock-solid. > Unlike debian's apt and dpkg, it needs to handle a lot of dependencies, > and onlyone pacman can handle all. > I have had horrible experiences with binary only package installs no matter what OS so I always do source from ports and frankly not a single Linux distro I have tried does this well (gentoo tried and failed). > Fourth, it uses systemd, so it starts quickly. The inspiration for > systemd is based on maccos launchd, which is even better than it. And > there is no need to buy Apple's expensive hardware, it is plug-and- > play, such as usb drive inserted into the notebook can be quickly > recognized. I don't care if it violates the unix philosophy, because > who cares. > You should care if something does break the Unix philosophy because it makes it harder to integrate with other tools. The most powerful part of Unix is the ability to quickly whip up little scripts and other tool chains for one off non-trivial tasks. > Fifth, it is highly customizable, you can install xfce, gnome, kde and > other desktops, unlike ubuntu, which only contains gnome by default. > And it can set up its own partition, only in my system is divided > several partitions/, /boot ,Swap, /home , and always stable, there is > no useless partition like ubuntu. > Name a desktop that FreeBSD does not support right out ports (no hassles in setting up either) one advantage of doing it from ports is you can mix and match for example I use xfce but have the full default app catalog from both gnome and kde installed and they all work together just fine. Sixth, it is stable, as stable as debian and freebsd. > If it is just as stable as FreeBSD why not just use FreeBSD? > Seventh, it exists a wiki. Although I don=E2=80=99t understand what it=E2= =80=99s > talking about most of the time, it provides a way to solve problems. > If you don't understand the docs this is also an issue. The FreeBSD docs are in general much easier to follow than Linux ones I have found (they certainly assume less up front knowledge of areas that don't pertain to the item being documented). Also the FreeBSD docs (unlike most Linux ones) don't have all kinds of arcane examples and unneeded command line options in the tutorial sections (they are fully documented though whereas many Linux apps/concepts are not fully documented). > Eighth, it also has a community-based source code package, AUR. Unlike > freebsd's concentration, it is more decentralized, but it solves many > of my problems. > The centralization is not a bug, it is a feature! > Ninth, it is small, and there are not so many useless dependency > packages installed, that no taking up a lot of disk space. > Unless you know the source code requirements well how do you know if they are useless/unneeded or not? Of course, I also run freebsd in my oracle VM virtualbox, freebsd is > also my favorite operating system, its structure is even better, but it > is not available. The touchpad, nvidia graphics card, and wireless > network card are not recognized, and the screen cannot adjust the > brightness. In addition, its startup code feels back to the 90s. I > See above on the graphics issue you're just straight out wrong about what FreeBSD can and can not do. And why is the start up an issue? Once it is started why would you give a damn about the boot environment? > think archlinux's ok startup is more fascinating. It made me realize > that I was running a stable unix system, not a mess of code. I also > don't like gnu's grub, freebsd's btx bootloader seems better. > No one uses BTX any more!!!!! Try the more modern bootloader comes with 11 and 12. I mean, compared to archlinux, the structure of freebsd seems to be > better, but it is not as good as archlinux. I will continue to run > archlinux on my physical machine, and only learn freebsd in the virtual > machine. > Then you have learned FreeBSD wrong since all the issues you raise are solved ones. --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org --=20 Aryeh M. 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Tue, 09 Jun 2020 14:45:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Yury Grebenkin Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 00:45:20 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I run ArchLinux and never look back To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: malaizhichun@tom.com, FreeBSD chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49hNw23WtQz3XJ4 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dlOYpmSN; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yvgrebenkin@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::332 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yvgrebenkin@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.48 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.47)[-0.475]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.014]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-chat@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::332:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[tom.com,freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 21:45:39 -0000 On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 5:45 PM Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:29 AM kindu smith wrote: > > > > Secondly, it drives all my hardware, including sound card, nvidia > > graphics card, wireless network card, screen brightness and touchpad. > > My nVidia card works perfectly and always has using the nVidia driver from > ports (worked on the first try with no special configs and contrary to some > people's impression does have full support for wayland), I don't use wifi > for security reasons but never heard any complaint about its support, > screen brightness is not an issue on my desktop so never played with it > same with touchpad but never heard any complaints about them on FreeBSD. I have disconnected wifi unit, literally. My touchpad works. I use mouse. Brightness is an issue. I can change it. But the minimum brightness is too high anyway. So, this is absolutely fantastic workaround: $ xrandr --output LVDS1 --brightness 0.2 Have a look at enlightenment. It is available under BSD license. # pkg install enlightenment $ echo exec enlightenment_start > .xinitrc $ startx -- Yury https://yvgrebenkin.wordpress.com/ From owner-freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Fri Jun 12 12:07:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E07E3390B9 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2020 12:07:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yvgrebenkin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x334.google.com (mail-ot1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49jzxq22gwz4QF8 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2020 12:07:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yvgrebenkin@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x334.google.com with SMTP id 97so7157020otg.3 for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2020 05:07:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=axfXLYBGSRNkL9K7sFaFes4CmAQ6+Mkw7cKAqeMAOOQ=; b=sw1cgGhuvwOV9KVIyEYWqCOb7v8aQR8WgNaOwVu3YFFh4Nxdsv0ORSePIoyPNi6GZj 9YSMcibx1NGufhmqS1XmH3MFgp8UePEqfF6bhgBLu+VlbBlFHErkybgO+UrRliNC9Y6H wMrxR5+T/zbMI7WqzLCe1NteUPE0KZKBNSDiLqIvECW9Ir7mYAfRK+AXntzqYk0qyCik re2zQ+xLvE3DkxJbumqk1l51DorUioB489UHdEuA7BiS+hhH0sMu+uX9lwfvY3Fcniqc apbGkHkXg3bxXP6s6unRsmnOi6MTf9Ey7SRfvvhrnym5XhghtCi0AbRdWPyMLcnOuAbz v+yw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=axfXLYBGSRNkL9K7sFaFes4CmAQ6+Mkw7cKAqeMAOOQ=; b=b3wmDL8/lbq6Za8SRZ+P6a9I6UdD6JUf8/IiAFdCLtHmAlTPQ9gNezaL7Mam3tP9Rr RME6+pir4FCt616msn+Sd4RpsxvC2m//zcDVtkaUGtahrQ3NJ8lMDUKUFKzr6fRX+kBs sv0s//hKtmFSJkjAh9ki2lDfLjdItATpgfCaxN0hJwP4vKBZZeBdL/cWhCg4wQp99R5V 0DADyjTuooI9RsBU+HvGBa8wdSEG4rD0F0uzaeXBLPWNFe3EQSJLlv64cmgzoMysVs4/ 5ZsTR6RR8rnYZT6lcOHNms0mNyV/c99DB/fRV55Vp4tsuboBYUQKF03DCuw+w8K4d32c UaxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531u8roQT6uHREf+yfrMEH1AGB7tTALl1Bh+MFZvMd//LZVW2NsU 2wim1Z0FJYuKYM8vycyfRRwrAeficZUpKMA9yylC3z1tRV0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxOz91/IQQFlz9+jXtKSoFltrhGMucQDKoLjbOm66Bk7sVX7WbamvjHsv5tR2lFwlzx1FjOvSbAXBXTeooYLLE= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:26:: with SMTP id 35mr10011884ota.352.1591963661470; Fri, 12 Jun 2020 05:07:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Yury Grebenkin Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:07:28 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Survey suggestion To: FreeBSD chat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49jzxq22gwz4QF8 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=sw1cgGhu; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yvgrebenkin@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::334 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yvgrebenkin@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.05 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.949]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-chat@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.986]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::334:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.12)[-0.117]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 12:07:44 -0000 Just completed the survey: FreeBSD 2020 Community Survey https://www.research.net/r/freebsd-2020-community-survey There was no option to say: "I know FreeBSD for over 15 years but I am a returning user". -- Yury https://yvgrebenkin.wordpress.com/