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[79.66.147.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b194sm14481064wmd.42.2020.09.13.02.21.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Sep 2020 02:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Graham Perrin Subject: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT To: FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions Message-ID: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:21:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bq3sb5qz4z3gLC X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.37 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.28)[-0.278]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[79.66.147.78:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.09)[-1.091]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::344:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions,freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:21:56 -0000 I'm confused about use of USB devices for audio (primarily with Firefox and Chromium). Re: under 'switching dsp-devices on-the-fly' > … hw.snd.default_unit to "0", which will automatically assign > hw.snd.default_unit to the newly-attached devices. …" – so in sysctl.conf I experimented with: hw.snd.default_unit="0" – and after signing in (to KDE Plasma) I attach first the USB microphone (Alctron USB700 Alctron USB700) then a USB headset (SteelSeries SteelSeries Siberia 350). virtual_oss and sndiod are enabled. With this setup, as far as I can tell: 1. Chromium simply does not play AV content e.g. – after a click to play, there's a moment of visual motion but no playback 2. if Firefox media.cubeb.backend set to oss then behaviour is the same as Chromium 3. if Firefox media.cubeb.backend is not set (audio backend defaults to pulse-rust) then playback occurs through IDT 92HD81B1X (Analog) – not USB. ---- root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # date ; uname -v Sun Sep 13 08:25:39 BST 2020 FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT #64 r365364: Sun Sep  6 01:38:18 BST 2020 root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/GENERIC-NODEBUG root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # service virtual_oss start ; service sndiod start ; service virtual_oss status ; service sndiod status ; cat /dev/sndstat ; grep " -f /dev/" /usr/local/etc/rc.d/virtual_oss | grep -v \# ; sysctl hw.snd.default_unit Starting Virtual OSS config dsp ...hw.snd.basename_clone: 0 -> 0  done Starting sndiod. virtual_oss is running as pid 5688. sndiod is running as pid 5697. Installed devices: pcm0: (play) default pcm1: (play/rec) pcm2: (play/rec) pcm3: (rec) pcm4: (play/rec) Installed devices from userspace: dsp: (play/rec)   -f /dev/dsp0 \ hw.snd.default_unit: 0 root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # ---- In addition, as far as I can tell: 4. if I remove then reconnect the two USB devices, the devices are no longer driven * neither device 'lights up' * playback in Firefox (with oss) and Chromium is visible, but no longer audible on any device * playback in Firefox (with puse-rust) is visible, but no longer audible on any device. ---- root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # grep Alctron /var/log/messages Sep 13 06:17:08 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.7: at usbus0 (disconnected) Sep 13 06:19:07 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.3: at usbus0 Sep 13 06:19:07 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: uaudio0: on usbus0 Sep 13 06:19:07 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: uhid1: on usbus0 Sep 13 09:13:08 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.5: at usbus0 Sep 13 09:13:08 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: uaudio1: on usbus0 Sep 13 09:13:08 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: uhid0: on usbus0 Sep 13 09:48:51 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.5: at usbus0 (disconnected) root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # grep SteelSeries /var/log/messages Sep 13 06:17:22 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.6: at usbus0 (disconnected) Sep 13 06:17:51 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.6: at usbus0 Sep 13 06:17:51 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: uaudio0: on usbus0 Sep 13 06:19:00 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.6: at usbus0 (disconnected) Sep 13 06:19:12 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.7: at usbus0 Sep 13 06:19:12 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: uaudio1: on usbus0 Sep 13 09:13:08 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: ugen0.4: at usbus0 Sep 13 09:13:08 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: uaudio0: on usbus0 root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # tail /var/log/messages Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: unregister: mixer busy Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: Waiting for sound application to exit! Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: unregister: mixer busy Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: Waiting for sound application to exit! Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: unregister: mixer busy Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: Waiting for sound application to exit! Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: unregister: mixer busy Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: Waiting for sound application to exit! Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: unregister: mixer busy Sep 13 10:11:39 momh167-gjp4-8570p kernel: pcm4: Waiting for sound application to exit! root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # ---- Clearly I'm doing something wrong. If on-the-fly use of USB audio devices is not possible, then must I keep the devices connected whilst I'm signed in to the desktop environment? From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 13 09:24:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64AB33D2A8F; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:24:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bq3x04XQZz3gry; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:24:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [178.17.145.105]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A1FE2260276; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 11:24:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT To: Graham Perrin , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions References: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 11:24:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bq3x04XQZz3gry X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.83 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.002]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.49)[-0.494]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.038]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current,freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:24:53 -0000 On 2020-09-13 11:21, Graham Perrin wrote: > > 1. Chromium simply does not play AV content e.g. > – after > a click to play, there's a moment of visual motion but no playback > > 2. if Firefox media.cubeb.backend set to oss then behaviour is the same > as Chromium > > 3. if Firefox media.cubeb.backend is not set (audio backend defaults to > pulse-rust) then playback occurs through IDT 92HD81B1X (Analog) – not USB. Try to configure a smaller audio buffer size in virtual_oss . Sometimes devices request a very small audio buffer . --HPS From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 13 10:50:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F2E3D48E8 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:50:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-wr1-x441.google.com (mail-wr1-x441.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::441]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bq5qx09tKz423V for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:50:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mail-wr1-x441.google.com with SMTP id t10so15624575wrv.1 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 03:50:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mAncFOxOhTDxO25L/pRhroAuXdak0qTtxhqqan7mVgc=; b=Qojn83GJFEZ68ve3NH7Nu9igeonGk0iRmPvyfMCjFMlDd0hB6QRKSmFFN1ATcC40vt oczfvHwJvbzuu7gisEyXSULTULRBo1kyQ3SLOLD482MmZ3escuQlRmkWV0+HUxvHPXtl YyMdF7n5M8DQk3miXCBQ0H2O18ToK6hehNSbt+9xOs2OTqb+gJE//KnA8JXWGy7QXCEV 7I0OCoM9/R9QsW5p6R5G2IJyX+6ysTL1a4+8rSVxtkpktLT2zmNlDVxx9Yrb+yywRFua EwidldACLXsRO4o1GDWanJ9X0minB4wBenDEKhyn0SnN5GO77NdTeik7TRR/CF06MINd sXTw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530flKBhMQQrjKUwQK91FjeOWw4890HzejcqBr0weh8DreQ5IL5E nZn4/qa1SoFC2ZhH+vUnTaxpzHko0xPc16mhouDI4vYUQH2ZNw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxqqNwg5lgBDK7PScr8YWH8Qa4E5+gQkVCqNFz9AuquP/wF8mgdFrmIZaMC3rNoMD8OOMNtvfUG1/nomWbNmsM= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4e8a:: with SMTP id e10mr10748329wru.329.1599994234741; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 03:50:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:50:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT To: Graham Perrin Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bq5qx09tKz423V X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.85 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.82)[-0.824]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.20)[0.200]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.92)[-0.924]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::441:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:50:38 -0000 I am using EMU10K1 attached to the sound system over USB on my laptop and the device needs to be connected on boot - unplug will crash the system. If device is plugged in on boot and I add `hw.snd.default_unit=3` to `/etc/sysctl.conf`, that is before I start X, then I have audio playback "by default". In order to have dynamic audio configuration I have found PulseAudio helpful a lot as it allows you to select which application uses which input/otput audio device. Note that PulseAudio can lock your audio hardware and block clean module removal. I am not sure about current default sound system in FreeBSD if its still OSS or ALSA, but if you do not want to use PulseAudio, you may want to try ALSA configuration at `/usr/local/etc/asound.conf` it allows some more detailed remap. Good luck :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 13 12:56:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F59E3D93B6; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:56:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from samy.mahmoudi@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bq8dh2y76z48tr; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:56:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from samy.mahmoudi@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id jw11so3986147pjb.0; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 05:56:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xCHqxnRmtCEkuIit5Ar6hogVFzSz8d9pu/nTHGGTnVY=; b=SB6LTF5mibWxbia5SZMLqvcFPOfVc8YPir6Y4I0F0w7VG99cZvhQp8xtZq4cbatkyG X2K/MJH5Y33xd6aHq56m41JxCzKGbaEYoEGJqMeFp4o9sAUGxgghx7r2DfQIxHCTCkKv RcWNmu7XmIELQyD+zTR2Ll/S9MCaz+2ErcslQ7Or5Q1fZIh9dUdrSWXQBgkDMGu4gl74 Y1BKbKXjwEfAPJIE8HtzcM2eP7fHRLgZ6ghBUr9AeVuZ4GuxyhW+E8NUfJqxJAdm+JSt IUxovVbhB5Dk3UaBW5O7X002duxZnayvCkgHMiAlScHVGgjzeWjRpS5ntqzlC0LWa4eh wwUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532mOlG+EAUslNxMJFuL+dXYxWNdEG/kZLcozGe2qBFz1jStchBz Rzn3l+VZqP+tlzieYodPhvphJEZenWjH7brq0Xc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwfN+Rv40AmnZtpk59sLBeGFBaYy152fbLg8TJrj6qKF1qnsPipjmgyGK0ZYmYTQPL+GwUE1uRjvoDUNEgDmzY= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:9a92:: with SMTP id e18mr9766299pjp.211.1600001814830; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 05:56:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Samy Mahmoudi Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:56:43 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT To: Tomasz CEDRO Cc: Graham Perrin , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bq8dh2y76z48tr X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.63 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.030]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.973]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.63)[-0.629]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current,freebsd-questions]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:56:57 -0000 Hi, If reducing the audio buffer size in virtual_oss does not solve the issue and you temporarily resort to use PulseAudio to achieve switching devices on-the-fly (which does work very well with PulseAudio), you could indeed 'keep the devices connected' and use a variant of the following script: #!/usr/local/bin/zsh SINK_INDEX1=1 SINK_INDEX2=4 ACTIVE_SINK=$(pacmd list-sinks | grep '* index:' | /usr/local/bin/grep -o '[0-9]*') if [ "$ACTIVE_SINK" = $SINK_INDEX1 ] ; then pacmd set-default-sink $SINK_INDEX2 pacmd list-sink-inputs | awk '/index:/{print $2}' | xargs -r -I{} pacmd move-sink-input {} $SINK_INDEX2 else pacmd set-default-sink $SINK_INDEX1 pacmd list-sink-inputs | awk '/index:/{print $2}' | xargs -r -I{} pacmd move-sink-input {} $SINK_INDEX1 fi In its current form, it allowed me to switch devices on-the-fly with a keyboard shortcut. The problem is I had to use a poudriere to build relevant ports with option PULSEAUDIO (chromium, firefox, mpv, audacious, virtualbox, etc.) and there may have been (I can not remember precisely) another problem if the USB headset was either hot-plugged or hot-unplugged. Please let us know if you manage to sort this out with virtual_oss. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 13 14:13:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783C93DAD75; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:13:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com (mail-wr1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BqBLY3QjCz4Dkk; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:13:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id g4so15918347wrs.5; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=uF7VmBhUlDG1xbLX+ca/9b+n4Y8B8lSO3Jq93ODsNCE=; b=MrIlk7BjVbd9VtWjRPoeHxUi8JTl3VxDgoT3Y7lmSe6E1lNVnp/6khtLagyg75txL5 xCmdxaP3x1gU3ASk5ATPz9j4E/kaxscTiYHJnrVXB4L2pMKqzWor1GB5ITCIAbqgH8aK 3txMUu8AqsDJrItcqCUFNRoYsxUJuIXuREQ/0bG6xyeNKkXZtiJvn86TvcMJaNXCPNu2 g5uTylLEujwbQLgP4RHF+PhtkPYSSdhFQRIp8vorkzWGqYhGa+WRy9y/f6VjS0fIu11t dOwLInaycD9lCg74WK5YOJ9fC0WYpOJyEV/9ltpZuyOu+np+xBaHY/g/R3/eqC22Diqy Kwdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530rTg1sBf6J6q3Sa5+pHQp4cLhcQ23q/Zftv4mcojuenG6mBGub QXaMLN9VJ+HxWBOqfCbEkykMfEjnak8DJQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw5QCuXdGWPzXgFG0SnxuCjD5R+V78yev8TYqZnbKK2XB0gQyU/zaMN76qZYdVRDnY8/BoFQA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8187:: with SMTP id 7mr11377025wra.266.1600006435317; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.22] (79-66-147-78.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com. [79.66.147.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k4sm15793106wrx.51.2020.09.13.07.13.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT To: Hans Petter Selasky , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions References: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> From: Graham Perrin Message-ID: <7731b641-687c-03e1-60b6-11f21595f13c@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 15:13:53 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BqBLY3QjCz4Dkk X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.69 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.593]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[79.66.147.78:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.08)[-1.078]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.019]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::42f:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions,freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:13:58 -0000 Now with On 13/09/2020 10:24, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 2020-09-13 11:21, Graham Perrin wrote: >> >> 1. Chromium simply does not play AV content e.g. >> – >> after a click to play, there's a moment of visual motion but no playback >> >> 2. if Firefox media.cubeb.backend set to oss then behaviour is the >> same as Chromium >> >> 3. if Firefox media.cubeb.backend is not set (audio backend defaults >> to pulse-rust) then playback occurs through IDT 92HD81B1X (Analog) – >> not USB. > > Try to configure a smaller audio buffer size in virtual_oss . > Sometimes devices request a very small audio buffer . > > --HPS Now with virtual_oss and sndiod disabled (starting them when required with onestart), with the buffer size reduced from 1024 to 256, ---- root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # head -n 55 /usr/local/etc/rc.d/virtual_oss | grep -v \# . /etc/rc.subr name=virtual_oss desc="Virtual OSS device manager" rcvar=${name}_enable start_precmd="${name}_precmd" start_cmd="${name}_start" stop_cmd="${name}_stop" virtual_oss_default_args="\   -T /dev/sndstat \   -S \   -i 8 \   -C 2 -c 2 \   -r 48000 \   -b 24 \   -s 256 \   -f /dev/dsp0 \   -c 2 \   -d dsp \   -t dsp.ctl" configs= load_rc_config $name root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # service virtual_oss onestart ; service sndiod onestart ; service virtual_oss onestatus ; service sndiod onestatus ; cat /dev/sndstat Starting Virtual OSS config dsp ... done Starting sndiod. virtual_oss is running as pid 5990. sndiod is running as pid 6006. Installed devices: pcm0: (play) default pcm1: (play/rec) pcm2: (play/rec) pcm3: (rec) pcm4: (play/rec) No devices installed from userspace. root@momh167-gjp4-8570p:~ # ---- I get visual playback but nothing audible at the USB headset or analogue loudspeakers. I see device buffer sizes below but I don't know how to use those to determine a usable setting for -s in /usr/local/etc/rc.d/virtual_oss From dmesg : ---- ugen0.5: at usbus0 uhid1 on uhub2 uhid1: on usbus0 uaudio0 on uhub2 uaudio0: on usbus0 uaudio0: No playback. uaudio0: Record[0]: 48000 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record[0]: 44100 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record[0]: 32000 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record[0]: 22050 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record[0]: 16000 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record[0]: 11025 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: Record[0]: 8000 Hz, 1 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio0: No MIDI sequencer. pcm3: on uaudio0 uaudio0: No HID volume keys found. ugen0.6: at usbus0 uhub8 on uhub2 uhub8: on usbus0 uhub8: MTT enabled uhub8: 4 ports with 4 removable, self powered ugen0.7: at usbus0 uaudio1 on uhub8 uaudio1: on usbus0 uaudio1: Play[0]: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Play[0]: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Play[0]: 22050 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Play[0]: 16000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Play[0]: 11025 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Play[0]: 8000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Record[0]: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Record[0]: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Record[0]: 22050 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Record[0]: 16000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Record[0]: 11025 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: Record[0]: 8000 Hz, 2 ch, 16-bit S-LE PCM format, 2x8ms buffer. uaudio1: No MIDI sequencer. pcm4: on uaudio1 uaudio1: HID volume keys found. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 13 14:30:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663043DBB88; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:30:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BqBjD3Hk9z4FYm; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:30:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [178.17.145.105]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D83A260276; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 16:30:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT To: Graham Perrin , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions References: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> <7731b641-687c-03e1-60b6-11f21595f13c@gmail.com> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <88c60840-a404-e48b-2e6e-b574a270ec74@selasky.org> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 16:29:34 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7731b641-687c-03e1-60b6-11f21595f13c@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BqBjD3Hk9z4FYm X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.70 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.037]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.330]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.031]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current,freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:30:09 -0000 On 2020-09-13 16:13, Graham Perrin wrote: >   -f /dev/dsp0 \ Try: -f /dev/dsp3 --HPS From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 13 14:31:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3CE3DBCBE; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:31:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BqBkc4Xjzz4G0k; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:31:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [178.17.145.105]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 956B7260276; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 16:31:19 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT To: Graham Perrin , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions References: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> <7731b641-687c-03e1-60b6-11f21595f13c@gmail.com> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <56165f3e-515e-e048-a1e5-6f2f059f39c3@selasky.org> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 16:30:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7731b641-687c-03e1-60b6-11f21595f13c@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BqBkc4Xjzz4G0k X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.70 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net:c]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.036]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.332]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.030]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current,freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:31:21 -0000 On 2020-09-13 16:13, Graham Perrin wrote: > pcm3: (rec) > pcm4: (play/rec) Or: -R /dev/dsp4 -P /dev/dsp4 -f /dev/dsp4 You can also add these parameters run-time via the GUI for virtual_oss. --HPS From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Sep 13 18:56:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D280D3E46BC for ; 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Sun, 13 Sep 2020 20:56:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Dimitry Andric Message-Id: <11FD9B3A-E977-4188-99BF-B05BFDCFE923@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_124C6773-4892-4373-AE91-2B81BAD05A91"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.15\)) Subject: Re: compiling with ports llvm11 breaks on mman.h: struct shm_larg epage_conf Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 20:56:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: FreeBSD Current To: Ronald Klop References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 18:56:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_124C6773-4892-4373-AE91-2B81BAD05A91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 12 Sep 2020, at 23:00, Ronald Klop wrote: >=20 > On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 18:28:03 +0200, Dimitry Andric = wrote: >> On 12 Sep 2020, at 17:43, Ronald Klop wrote: >>>=20 >>> Because I'm tired of hours of compilation of llvm/clang I'm testing = compiling FreeBSD with llvm11 from a pkg. ... It is during the building world stage and happens with and without = NO_CLEAN. > Full command: > /usr/local/bin/clang11 -O2 -pipe -fno-common -DNO__SCCSID = -DNO__RCSID -I/usr/src/lib/libc > /include -I/usr/src/include -I/usr/src/lib/libc/amd64 -DNLS = -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -I/usr/ > src/contrib/gdtoa -I/usr/src/contrib/libc-vis -DINET6 = -I/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/lib/lib > c -I/usr/src/lib/libc/resolv -D_ACL_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE = -I/usr/src/lib/libmd -I/usr/src/ > contrib/jemalloc/include -DMALLOC_PRODUCTION = -I/usr/src/contrib/tzcode/stdtime -I/usr/src/li > b/libc/stdtime -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DBROKEN_DES -DPORTMAP = -DDES_BUILTIN -I/usr/src/li > b/libc/rpc -DWANT_HYPERV -DYP -DNS_CACHING -DSYMBOL_VERSIONING -g -MD = -MF.depend.shm_open.o > -MTshm_open.o -std=3Dgnu99 -Wno-format-zero-length -nobuiltininc = -idirafter /usr/local/llvm11 > /lib/clang/11.0.0/include -fstack-protector-strong -Wsystem-headers = -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-pointer-sign = -Wno-empty-body -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused- > const-variable -Wno-tautological-compare -Wno-unused-value = -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-un > used-function -Wno-enum-conversion -Wno-unused-local-typedef = -Wno-address-of-packed-member - > Wno-switch -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-knr-promoted-parameter = -Qunused-arguments -I/usr/src/lib/libutil -I/usr/src/lib/msun/amd64 = -I/usr/src/lib/msun/x86 -I/usr/src/lib/msun/src -c /usr/ > src/lib/libc/sys/shm_open.c -o shm_open.o After a pretty long build of the llvm11 port, I can at least reproduce = your error. It looks like the problem is that clang11 does not get any = --sysroot parameter passed. If I install the devel/xtoolchain-llvm90 port and use that, I get a = slightly different command line. Here's both of them, in diff = --side-by-side format: /usr/local/bin/clang11 | = /usr/local/bin/clang90 > -target = x86_64-unknown-freebsd13.0 > = --sysroot=3D/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/tmp > -B/var/empty -O2 -O2 -pipe -pipe -fno-common -fno-common -DNO__SCCSID -DNO__SCCSID -DNO__RCSID -DNO__RCSID -I/usr/src/lib/libc/include = -I/usr/src/lib/libc/include -I/usr/src/include = -I/usr/src/include -I/usr/src/lib/libc/amd64 = -I/usr/src/lib/libc/amd64 -DNLS -DNLS -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE = -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -I/usr/src/contrib/gdtoa = -I/usr/src/contrib/gdtoa -I/usr/src/contrib/libc-vis = -I/usr/src/contrib/libc-vis -DINET6 -DINET6 -I/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/lib/libc = -I/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/lib/libc -I/usr/src/lib/libc/resolv = -I/usr/src/lib/libc/resolv -D_ACL_PRIVATE = -D_ACL_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE = -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src/lib/libmd = -I/usr/src/lib/libmd -I/usr/src/contrib/jemalloc/include = -I/usr/src/contrib/jemalloc/include -I/usr/src/contrib/tzcode/stdtime = -I/usr/src/contrib/tzcode/stdtime -I/usr/src/lib/libc/stdtime = -I/usr/src/lib/libc/stdtime -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale = -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DBROKEN_DES -DBROKEN_DES -DPORTMAP -DPORTMAP -DDES_BUILTIN = -DDES_BUILTIN -I/usr/src/lib/libc/rpc = -I/usr/src/lib/libc/rpc -DWANT_HYPERV = -DWANT_HYPERV -DYP -DYP -DNS_CACHING -DNS_CACHING -DSYMBOL_VERSIONING = -DSYMBOL_VERSIONING -g -g -MD -MD -MF.depend.shm_open.o = -MF.depend.shm_open.o -MTshm_open.o = -MTshm_open.o -std=3Dgnu99 -std=3Dgnu99= -Wno-format-zero-length = -Wno-format-zero-length -nobuiltininc = -nobuiltininc -idirafter /usr/local/llvm11/lib/clang/11.0.0/include | -idirafter = /usr/local/llvm90/lib/clang/9.0.1/include -fstack-protector-strong = -fstack-protector-strong -Wsystem-headers = -Wsystem-headers -Werror -Werror -Wall -Wall -Wno-format-y2k = -Wno-format-y2k -Wno-uninitialized = -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-pointer-sign = -Wno-pointer-sign -Wno-empty-body = -Wno-empty-body -Wno-string-plus-int = -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused-const-variable = -Wno-unused-const-variable -Wno-tautological-compare = -Wno-tautological-compare -Wno-unused-value = -Wno-unused-value -Wno-parentheses-equality = -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-unused-function = -Wno-unused-function -Wno-enum-conversion = -Wno-enum-conversion -Wno-unused-local-typedef = -Wno-unused-local-typedef -Wno-address-of-packed-member = -Wno-address-of-packed-member -Wno-switch -Wno-switch -Wno-switch-enum = -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-knr-promoted-parameter = -Wno-knr-promoted-parameter -Qunused-arguments = -Qunused-arguments -I/usr/src/lib/libutil = -I/usr/src/lib/libutil -I/usr/src/lib/msun/amd64 = -I/usr/src/lib/msun/amd64 -I/usr/src/lib/msun/x86 = -I/usr/src/lib/msun/x86 -I/usr/src/lib/msun/src = -I/usr/src/lib/msun/src -c /usr/src/lib/libc/sys/shm_open.c -c = /usr/src/lib/libc/sys/shm_open.c -o shm_open.o -o = shm_open.o So except for the expected difference in the -idirafter option that = points to the clang internal headers, the main problem is that for some = reason, clang11 does not get the -target and --sysroot options passed. -Dimitry --Apple-Mail=_124C6773-4892-4373-AE91-2B81BAD05A91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; 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Sun, 13 Sep 2020 21:30:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:29:54 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Panic with wifi + usb in latest FreeBSD-current To: FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BqYLR0CLCz49xk X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.985]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.05)[0.050]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::732:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 04:30:07 -0000 I'm running current as of -2h ago. When I plug in my rtwn0 device and it configures, etc, I get: rtwn0 on uhub 0 rtwn0: on usbus0 rtwn0: MAC/BB RTL8188CUS, RF 6052 1T1R host dpa_supplicant[1619]: ioctl[SIOS80211, op=20, val=0, arg_len=7]: Invalid argument panic: sleepq_add: td to sleep on wchan with sleeping prohibited cpuid = 5 time = 1600057358 KDB: stack backtrace: ... panic() sleepq_add() _cv_wait() usbd_do_request_flags rtwn_do_request rtwn_usb_read_4 rtwn_rx_common rtwn_bulk_rx_callback usbd_callback_wrapper usb_command_wrapper usb_callback_proc usb_process ... I've done a fresh installworld and installkernel, but am running packages from late may since I've not updated them. I've updated the iichid and drm-kmod ports and rebuilt them and reinstalled them as well (so I know they aren't out of date). Has anybody else seen this? Warner From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 05:29:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3EA83F327A for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:29:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com (mail-qk1-x72f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BqZfw5q6sz4FMD; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id q63so14988554qkf.3; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:29:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PbDY7zgWNIi8RACuD8TBjgj5FRksP0ipPRg0ldtXOBw=; b=PtlNcfQGDkquWNYeGacYrib0vC7AyNHrFdS4cK4IZHtK/xRLb8v0ZZgI63+/wUBzG8 JA6/l79u+nj0S29LFu9CGQTphYX983TgEpPmsdAG9zKxcAHx8p8q/bqwkT+mejzFdAXl BflNqcIlBBgGYWEmvhEMnOa2wKzpparrQgjO5XCyIlUSn5Bj8nCqx2qJthrpiiePJJZA G3s6Myi6ujiRHd0c/cUpwksM5TQTqxNXxUbRWTD7SC7tBD7k80EcPjQaII7Mel1Q8IhR KnJY9+eCTv37ajhnYGYBpF+cCc2hep3LE7Aqcck2p79lff1iRxuSlFQQ1uJN1XcfzfjT excA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530w/4XVbfnh8xesYEXtdCYM3bFHeEgyCmUqcZbVckx70/rAhzzS f8lt0cTOSSN46dJWH0WpedJuIrAPlxiAjcGUMt8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzu/mpnfO3hmWzH/q8guLoQR79as2vBf6qXqpkQrx0i36Y/f1vq+y1mEofiI6P9lQ70D/UbV6YjwzGfJ1gESTE= X-Received: by 2002:a37:a953:: with SMTP id s80mr11074824qke.152.1600061367863; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:29:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adrian Chadd Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:29:15 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Panic with wifi + usb in latest FreeBSD-current To: Warner Losh Cc: FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BqZfw5q6sz4FMD X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.91 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.046]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.028]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.833]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:29:29 -0000 Yeah, this was also reported in #freebsd-wireless today. Is there a lock being held in the rtwn path that shouldn't be? -adrian On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 at 21:30, Warner Losh wrote: > I'm running current as of -2h ago. > > When I plug in my rtwn0 device and it configures, etc, I get: > > rtwn0 on uhub 0 > rtwn0: on > usbus0 > rtwn0: MAC/BB RTL8188CUS, RF 6052 1T1R > host dpa_supplicant[1619]: ioctl[SIOS80211, op=20, val=0, > arg_len=7]: Invalid argument > panic: sleepq_add: td to sleep on wchan with sleeping > prohibited > cpuid = 5 > time = 1600057358 > KDB: stack backtrace: > ... > panic() > sleepq_add() > _cv_wait() > usbd_do_request_flags > rtwn_do_request > rtwn_usb_read_4 > rtwn_rx_common > rtwn_bulk_rx_callback > usbd_callback_wrapper > usb_command_wrapper > usb_callback_proc > usb_process > ... > > I've done a fresh installworld and installkernel, but am running packages > from late may since I've not updated them. I've updated the iichid and > drm-kmod ports and rebuilt them and reinstalled them as well (so I know > they aren't out of date). > > Has anybody else seen this? > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 05:34:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21FD3F373B for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:34:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BqZn96pz6z4FTw for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:34:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com with SMTP id cy2so8390174qvb.0 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:34:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gzOw3VpbWSymdiIDWdMrrVr2w9qKAgc+jIhLKghtXLk=; b=CBKEpWJv0in7HwWEAu6cBhx3vrgunnFmGIhpz38Iui3JKypFvq6ANnIGgZ6KJYfN/J DrYwjsJZn0zWqKRJOxNUbdwO7bA8p9U5tvgaqJO0tj+Vnnm4DNJ+SuDmETz9zmaD6O7i YdlNigS3Tm9CVWJdaCLYFl9uxqSqL4iHEjLC2HGF7mdqQn40vQ8I4TaV/kaZEeAh8A01 o8PL+yh9EfPNQb6pZxs2IEK3vACd5jTw1kYt0YMLWmRgGyIBrL6t2xHOG1DoFOsjaxV7 PaTEcAZzK8doREnykMQIcKS+/phchUWZg8S1R2PGyL/60kUt6NPLlNHM5Tyhpi8a4/UR TGZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533U2KjJknEH6g2QEYosu8MlKIIejXv5omFx3BULEtN5Y1RO92zK bEaCWU9OuMg/BAGAzXBNBSLvv+FA7AfQqqHRgn8NIBbQM9o8nQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxFIwFJpNxzZrkVTxxajlFQ1QNHQlpVewN3mZGqgyF42Z1dwt3eUeMGjNLOaLXdUtAEFi60ceqWgx5irSiIqBw= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4891:: with SMTP id bv17mr12004574qvb.27.1600061691604; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 22:34:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 23:34:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Panic with wifi + usb in latest FreeBSD-current To: Adrian Chadd Cc: FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BqZn96pz6z4FTw X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.86 / 15.00]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.915]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.88)[-0.876]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.57)[-0.569]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2f:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 05:34:55 -0000 On Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:29 PM Adrian Chadd wrote: > Yeah, this was also reported in #freebsd-wireless today. > > Is there a lock being held in the rtwn path that shouldn't be? > I'll check in the morning... this was like the 20th thing to go wrong this weekend, so I copied the panic down, send the email and grabbed a beer and turned it off... Warner > -adrian > > > > On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 at 21:30, Warner Losh wrote: > >> I'm running current as of -2h ago. >> >> When I plug in my rtwn0 device and it configures, etc, I get: >> >> rtwn0 on uhub 0 >> rtwn0: on >> usbus0 >> rtwn0: MAC/BB RTL8188CUS, RF 6052 1T1R >> host dpa_supplicant[1619]: ioctl[SIOS80211, op=20, val=0, >> arg_len=7]: Invalid argument >> panic: sleepq_add: td to sleep on wchan with sleeping >> prohibited >> cpuid = 5 >> time = 1600057358 >> KDB: stack backtrace: >> ... >> panic() >> sleepq_add() >> _cv_wait() >> usbd_do_request_flags >> rtwn_do_request >> rtwn_usb_read_4 >> rtwn_rx_common >> rtwn_bulk_rx_callback >> usbd_callback_wrapper >> usb_command_wrapper >> usb_callback_proc >> usb_process >> ... >> >> I've done a fresh installworld and installkernel, but am running packages >> from late may since I've not updated them. I've updated the iichid and >> drm-kmod ports and rebuilt them and reinstalled them as well (so I know >> they aren't out of date). >> >> Has anybody else seen this? >> >> Warner >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >> " >> > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 06:30:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8574C3F46F6 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 06:30:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72e.google.com (mail-qk1-x72e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqc1l3ZWTz4J5w; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 06:30:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72e.google.com with SMTP id q63so15076066qkf.3; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 23:30:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eXBKzuu2nSrmqrbMohkCxxa1IzN3UqW9GqM+EdUp5gk=; b=aVk4cSJxUBOmxsOpJNZBYQP+hgLNzlTKEjqbxMV1fjFBiEWb1j86SlFSeRQEdl+O/i xrpZlBgOR1SFoxkKXUEB6V9MGvmKxIbl3tatP9VGptABYLKYggoV1MoB/YIW3BJN3qNg FGigCIJvcKF7xSdkm0HiJdpojk4c1b/b9Cua9mYxqPOupXg7RFOX7K7kO+fdUVIeAy6w cvKfZSLfUNhRjOKJZHgfPynt9WXHwTMtkVpyqoGHmKprwS2qcgQFyCQPqLnYzbr4FuxM h/0eS7XbcBpaxCx1W5Mw+i/FGHi4f+zx/sGHYAXfWVvOl4300UzS/GbRGN87XE5FKKrc aI4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530cukKEYnULlYXLzkYuSgf3L73gUtxnc8Pa/Uj5mspCfJD+qcC6 5svUi9llB9sAs7VJTvYzqA8qMpvQoD31ok1+alg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzSu2nC7vucN0EE0YDwNLkn3iXvzzrbDG4o7Si3PoGMMLiID6NAPJHPTza0ybOMSNftvkBCrv6IalR3djgRE9A= X-Received: by 2002:a37:b882:: with SMTP id i124mr11892239qkf.51.1600065050473; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 23:30:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adrian Chadd Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 23:30:37 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Panic with wifi + usb in latest FreeBSD-current To: Warner Losh Cc: FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bqc1l3ZWTz4J5w X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.91 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.047]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.028]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::72e:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.831]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 06:30:52 -0000 On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 at 22:34, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:29 PM Adrian Chadd > wrote: > >> Yeah, this was also reported in #freebsd-wireless today. >> >> Is there a lock being held in the rtwn path that shouldn't be? >> > > I'll check in the morning... this was like the 20th thing to go wrong this > weekend, so I copied the panic down, send the email and grabbed a beer and > turned it off... > Ok. I checked the driver and the usb stack; nothing in the change lists obviously stands out to me at 11pm on a Sunday. Can you see if any locks are held? or an epoch? Something smells fishy. (defining EPOCH_TRACE will dump the list of epochs, if I'm reading the subr_sleepqueue.c code correctly.) Ok, so, since I dug a bit more on a hunch, I bet the NET epoch is being held - it's grabbed in rtwn_bulk_rx_callback, and rtwn_rx_common is reading some registers as part of processing the receive queue. I bet that act of reading registers over blocking USB is causing things to explode. If it is net epoch then we're going to have to think of a better design pattern here to migrate all of these here wifi drivers to, because I guarantee you they're all behaving poorly in this newer world order. Thanks, -adrian > > panic: sleepq_add: td to sleep on wchan with sleeping >>> prohibited >>> cpuid = 5 >>> time = 1600057358 >>> KDB: stack backtrace: >>> ... >>> panic() >>> sleepq_add() >>> _cv_wait() >>> usbd_do_request_flags >>> rtwn_do_request >>> rtwn_usb_read_4 >>> rtwn_rx_common >>> rtwn_bulk_rx_callback >>> usbd_callback_wrapper >>> usb_command_wrapper >>> usb_callback_proc >>> usb_process >>> ... >>> >>> I've done a fresh installworld and installkernel, but am running packages >>> from late may since I've not updated them. I've updated the iichid and >>> drm-kmod ports and rebuilt them and reinstalled them as well (so I know >>> they aren't out of date). >>> >>> Has anybody else seen this? >>> >>> Warner >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >>> freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >> From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 07:45:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E453F5C74 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 07:45:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x143.google.com (mail-il1-x143.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::143]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BqdgP4LH2z4M6v; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 07:45:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from delphij@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x143.google.com with SMTP id t13so15770776ile.9; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 00:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=plDdH65KHkSDtDgiSY2XK+n7roVIGgz5vXx5TRPWtnc=; b=LXBhZRGM/XyeDYIY0A+xp8FL+j+tjSt8BG6uW/8n4UzP5e34TpV47eISQoP2Mi92bK hkzJCb/zBj0xp5YkhMoXXoGSQuM/+wkGXpREGjra/+7FQBQh1TsW7Gsr0soDrCTED6Wc 5K9QNzCUCwsrcMIrLVUXWMSmmJlxBvznUZt22znyobss+1h+wdM8tx71wlI21SrprhsK Na+cU9f1PKi2P38bd1ePefh1gIHVGKwhkoR0i1Zh09upCoN2gHpjHLEasboMSfBcnmoN hyudrjN/dQ05i9FR1yPXFmk+IpUHjxxqUNptBljA3V6/S0wGhs/wEEd3IMRzAFbvKTpA 5rKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5338SVxkk72PZytSNOI6TICUPMQh/B/YVXeCOmsFtoL9kMwFrfDB Sgc6PCnmtAtoQKsogs63+sS3Zy7YoxDgHsnw0XrE5XOcPE7XBg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwgocDLUIFA6xOx6BK4gGLWgYG1lkU2GyG4/exugqgO5fVHgmVlKb0hya/6a2+NLBX5uAmxeKjPlDx1jBOepBc= X-Received: by 2002:a92:194b:: with SMTP id e11mr11508927ilm.133.1600069502879; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 00:45:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202004151320.03FDKqT7027080@repo.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <202004151320.03FDKqT7027080@repo.freebsd.org> From: Xin LI Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 00:44:51 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: ioctl argument type [Was Re: svn commit: r359968 - head/sys/kern] To: FreeBSD Current Cc: hselasky@freebsd.org, phk@freebsd.org, jilles@freebsd.org, Doug Rabson , Xin Li X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BqdgP4LH2z4M6v X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.76 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[delphij]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.031]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::143:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.73)[-0.727]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.005]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 07:45:06 -0000 Hi, I have seen Chromium trigger the warning (I run -CURRENT with INVARIANTS) and looked into the code history a little bit. It seems that the command was changed to u_long in r36846 with a follow up commit of r38517 , possibly because ioctl was defined to take an unsigned long command before FreeBSD. Internally, we have truncated it to 32-bit since 2005 (r140406 ), and this recent change made it a silent behavior. POSIX, on the other hand, defined ioctl as taking an int as its second parameter, but neither Linux (glibc in particular, despite its documentation says differently) nor macOS appear to define it that way, but Solaris seems to be defining it as an int. What was the motivation to keep the prototype definition as int ioctl(int fd, unsigned long request, ...); instead of: int ioctl(int fd, int request, ...); Other than to make existing code happy? Alternatively, will it be a good idea to give compiler some hints (e.g. by using __attribute__(enable_if)) to emit errors, if we insist keeping the existing signature? On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:21 AM Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > Author: hselasky > Date: Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 > New Revision: 359968 > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/359968 > > Log: > Cast all ioctl command arguments through uint32_t internally. > > Hide debug print showing use of sign extended ioctl command argument > under INVARIANTS. The print is available to all and can easily fill > up the logs. > > No functional change intended. > > MFC after: 1 week > Sponsored by: Mellanox Technologies > > Modified: > head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c > > Modified: head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c > > ============================================================================== > --- head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:13:46 2020 (r359967) > +++ head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 (r359968) > @@ -652,18 +652,19 @@ int > sys_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct ioctl_args *uap) > { > u_char smalldata[SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_SIZE] > __aligned(SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_ALIGN); > - u_long com; > + uint32_t com; > int arg, error; > u_int size; > caddr_t data; > > +#ifdef INVARIANTS > if (uap->com > 0xffffffff) { > printf( > "WARNING pid %d (%s): ioctl sign-extension ioctl > %lx\n", > td->td_proc->p_pid, td->td_name, uap->com); > - uap->com &= 0xffffffff; > } > - com = uap->com; > +#endif > + com = (uint32_t)uap->com; > > /* > * Interpret high order word to find amount of data to be > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 08:01:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3E653F5FFC for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 08:01:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqf2Q6k4qz4Mh2; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 08:01:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [178.17.145.105]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB5BD2602CF; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:01:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: ioctl argument type [Was Re: svn commit: r359968 - head/sys/kern] To: Xin LI , FreeBSD Current Cc: phk@freebsd.org, jilles@freebsd.org, Doug Rabson , Xin Li References: <202004151320.03FDKqT7027080@repo.freebsd.org> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:00:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bqf2Q6k4qz4Mh2 X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.67 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net:c]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.034]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.36)[-0.361]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 08:01:35 -0000 On 2020-09-14 09:44, Xin LI wrote: > Hi, > > I have seen Chromium trigger the warning (I run -CURRENT with INVARIANTS) > and looked into the code history a little bit. > > It seems that the command was changed to u_long in r36846 > with a > follow up commit of r38517 > , possibly > because ioctl was defined to take an unsigned long command before FreeBSD. > > Internally, we have truncated it to 32-bit since 2005 (r140406 > ), and this > recent change made it a silent behavior. POSIX, on the other hand, defined > > ioctl as taking an int as its second parameter, but neither Linux (glibc in > particular, despite its documentation says > > differently) nor macOS appear to define it that way, but Solaris seems > to be > defining it as an int. > > What was the motivation to keep the prototype definition as > > int > ioctl(int fd, unsigned long request, ...); > > instead of: > > int > ioctl(int fd, int request, ...); > > Other than to make existing code happy? Alternatively, will it be a good > idea to give compiler some hints (e.g. by using __attribute__(enable_if)) > to emit errors, if we insist keeping the existing signature? > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:21 AM Hans Petter Selasky > wrote: > >> Author: hselasky >> Date: Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 >> New Revision: 359968 >> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/359968 >> >> Log: >> Cast all ioctl command arguments through uint32_t internally. >> >> Hide debug print showing use of sign extended ioctl command argument >> under INVARIANTS. The print is available to all and can easily fill >> up the logs. >> >> No functional change intended. >> >> MFC after: 1 week >> Sponsored by: Mellanox Technologies >> >> Modified: >> head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c >> >> Modified: head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c >> >> ============================================================================== >> --- head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:13:46 2020 (r359967) >> +++ head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 (r359968) >> @@ -652,18 +652,19 @@ int >> sys_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct ioctl_args *uap) >> { >> u_char smalldata[SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_SIZE] >> __aligned(SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_ALIGN); >> - u_long com; >> + uint32_t com; >> int arg, error; >> u_int size; >> caddr_t data; >> >> +#ifdef INVARIANTS >> if (uap->com > 0xffffffff) { >> printf( >> "WARNING pid %d (%s): ioctl sign-extension ioctl >> %lx\n", >> td->td_proc->p_pid, td->td_name, uap->com); >> - uap->com &= 0xffffffff; >> } >> - com = uap->com; >> +#endif >> + com = (uint32_t)uap->com; >> >> /* >> * Interpret high order word to find amount of data to be >> Hi, Using unsigned long is not cross platform compatible, especially when you have 32-bit compat shim layers. On 64-bit platforms long is usually 64-bit and on 32-bit platforms long is usually 32-bit. You've brought up a good question with a good history line. Maybe we should just "#if 0" the INVARIANTS check and remove that code? --HPS From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 09:59:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939193D1144 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:59:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x844.google.com (mail-qt1-x844.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::844]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqhf767nnz4TcL for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:59:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x844.google.com with SMTP id 19so12964697qtp.1 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 02:59:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QyQnBeC4IuP5acAvxzWcG4St3JfPbHdqy60QvRLy8oo=; b=sWWCY8Ndp1JjpKY3NFnDT4rw4+mw2Xo4S9PRqUugYAAKQv6Xnqv9+UwMZDjWkB/3gA GJm5P+6PV0OCYtzFdZ/iP9AzgS/nlvQlf/7TCplzB+eq+hGKfbJhyIUsw7WavNy+myHK 5ZTxhHs9XxmdOXG2MJrlikDWgfC/FiESVvDrdfo//z8nXpVGQmrSdMGKHGg2Riy4Qrak gid1J7y9J4oAobD9HMcD1vcdVtc9FWm98Uj3gaC9HaJPZ11KmDDxFaP8tyaKLJGUy1hD tdj+4WnkLZKbUcLQsqII8dB4oLYo7K/sRRklsJTObsvg+5QvbCckoaHbXb5mzkG2txKH x19A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ubRyvrlQ0fvayZUjfpaNkG46YGCY6Dwl537cPXVn6eiNZ95ph tZ0LgHoPdg9wfiDxdhfkCizvRlRpQMV2ivf3uK7UjQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyRVOaHcrUHHQA6HLRZ4VI2fmBD+oSL7RLoZBLfjyntGrogebaQTin4i8FuFyYZ6ErIBcFvh1fF4HP2kvwoF8M= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4548:: with SMTP id z8mr12639901qtn.291.1600077550869; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 02:59:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202004151320.03FDKqT7027080@repo.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 03:58:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: ioctl argument type [Was Re: svn commit: r359968 - head/sys/kern] To: Xin LI Cc: FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , Poul-Henning Kamp , jilles@freebsd.org, Doug Rabson , Xin Li X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bqhf767nnz4TcL X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.57 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.857]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.018]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.73)[-0.729]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::844:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:59:12 -0000 On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 1:45 AM Xin LI wrote: > Hi, > > I have seen Chromium trigger the warning (I run -CURRENT with INVARIANTS) > and looked into the code history a little bit. > > It seems that the command was changed to u_long in r36846 > with a > follow up commit of r38517 > , possibly > because ioctl was defined to take an unsigned long command before FreeBSD. These commits were for the Alpha port. I think for two reasons. (1) long was the size of a register there. (2) unsigned because BSD encoded types in the cmd number: Prior to 4.2BSD, ioctls cmd weren't encoded and had simple int defines. Or at least defines that fit into ints. For example: #define TIOCGETD (('t'<<8)|0) /* get line discipline */ which reflected the PDP-11 past where int was 16 bits and signed vs unsigned as at best a hint to the reader. 4.2BSD introduced the encoding we have today with defines like: #define IOC_OUT 0x40000000 /* copy out parameters */ #define IOC_IN 0x80000000 /* copy in parameters */ #define IOC_INOUT (IOC_IN|IOC_OUT) which filled all 32-bits of the ioctl cmd and introduced the concept of automatic copyin/copyout so the drivers wouldn't have to cope. The IOC_IN being especially troublesome because it's not an int, but unsigned. But that troublesome bit is still with us today: #define IOC_VOID 0x20000000 /* no parameters */ #define IOC_OUT 0x40000000 /* copy out parameters */ #define IOC_IN 0x80000000 /* copy in parameters */ #define IOC_INOUT (IOC_IN|IOC_OUT) I had expected to find a 0x80000000ul or something similar there to get around the warnings, but that was never undertaken. However, I think this is the cause of our problems, see below for NetBSD's solution. That's a long way of saying, I'd expect it was to fix signedness warnings, but I'm not seeing where the fix I expected to find for that is applied. :( I do see we have a cast here: #define _IOC(inout,group,num,len) ((unsigned long) \ which quiets all the type mismatch warnings that would otherwise result in if/case statements. If you trace it back through a line wrap obrien did, you find it originate at https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=36735 which justified the change as This commit fixes various 64bit portability problems required for FreeBSD/alpha. The most significant item is to change the command argument to ioctl functions from int to u_long. This change brings us inline with various other BSD versions. Driver writers may like to use (__FreeBSD_version == 300003) to detect this change. Indeed, NetBSD also uses unsigned long in how I'd expect: #define IOC_IN (unsigned long)0x80000000 and doesn't have the icky cast we have above in their _IOC definition. This was changed quite early in NetBSD's history (1994 by cgd) and is reflected in all the post 4.4BSD variants of BSD except 386BSD as far as I can tell from a quick peek. cgd later committed this into 4.4Lite2, the SCCS files of which have: D 8.3 95/01/09 18:16:30 cgd 3 2 00010/00005/00033 MRs: COMMENTS: 64-bit changes: ioctl cmd -> u_long, some protos. some style, return vals. I also suspect that since register_t == long (or unsigned long) this helped with the calling conventions of some 64-bit architecture, while hurting the 32-bit ones in NetBSD. But I can't find documentation of that. Internally, we have truncated it to 32-bit since 2005 (r140406 > ), and this > nrecent change made it a silent behavior. POSIX, on the other hand, > defined > > ioctl as taking an int as its second parameter, but neither Linux (glibc in > particular, despite its documentation says > > differently) nor macOS appear to define it that way, but Solaris seems > to be > defining it as an int. > > What was the motivation to keep the prototype definition as > > int > ioctl(int fd, unsigned long request, ...); > > instead of: > > int > ioctl(int fd, int request, ...); > > Other than to make existing code happy? Alternatively, will it be a good > idea to give compiler some hints (e.g. by using __attribute__(enable_if)) > to emit errors, if we insist keeping the existing signature? > Given that this was changed 25 years ago, I think the ship has sailed on changing the prototype now since it reflects down the stack into the drivers. And there's likely a lot of code that would grow a signed vs unsigned warning, or worse. As for the actual motivation, I suspect that it has to do with the register size on the first 64-bit ports that NetBSD was doing and contributing back to CSRG before 4.4Lite2 was released, but I can't find anything more specific than the CSRG commit (or the NetBSD one that preceded it which had similar verbiage). I honestly think, though, that our best bet is to use the NetBSD definitions for IOC_* we see above. This would mean that the values wouldn't be sign extended (unless someone hardcodes a bare 0x80000000 somewhere) and I'll bet the warnings from Chrome would just disappear. They properly cast the raw int to an unsigned long (though I suppose one could use UL at the end, though bde would have objected in the code review that followed). It would also reduce the diffs with NetBSD in an area that don't need to be different from the 4.4Lite2 code. I'd be tempted to leave the printf live and not turn it off like hps did. I'm guessing they used the IOC_ stuff and hand-rolled the shifts without the cast we have. But I'm not up for diving into that pool tonight... It's too deep to chase down the define that leads to this. As to why we clip it at 32-bits, I'm less sure. It is handy to have it clipped to 32-bits for 32-bit on 64-bit code situations, but I'll leave it to Brooks to say if that's legit or not. I think we rely on it really only having 32-bits of significance to reduce the number of changes we need in drivers to support 32-bit IOCTL in COMPAT32 mode. Warner On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:21 AM Hans Petter Selasky > wrote: > > > Author: hselasky > > Date: Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 > > New Revision: 359968 > > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/359968 > > > > Log: > > Cast all ioctl command arguments through uint32_t internally. > > > > Hide debug print showing use of sign extended ioctl command argument > > under INVARIANTS. The print is available to all and can easily fill > > up the logs. > > > > No functional change intended. > > > > MFC after: 1 week > > Sponsored by: Mellanox Technologies > > > > Modified: > > head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c > > > > Modified: head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c > > > > > ============================================================================== > > --- head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:13:46 2020 (r359967) > > +++ head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 (r359968) > > @@ -652,18 +652,19 @@ int > > sys_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct ioctl_args *uap) > > { > > u_char smalldata[SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_SIZE] > > __aligned(SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_ALIGN); > > - u_long com; > > + uint32_t com; > > int arg, error; > > u_int size; > > caddr_t data; > > > > +#ifdef INVARIANTS > > if (uap->com > 0xffffffff) { > > printf( > > "WARNING pid %d (%s): ioctl sign-extension ioctl > > %lx\n", > > td->td_proc->p_pid, td->td_name, uap->com); > > - uap->com &= 0xffffffff; > > } > > - com = uap->com; > > +#endif > > + com = (uint32_t)uap->com; > > > > /* > > * Interpret high order word to find amount of data to be > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 16:47:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB013DBEFE for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqshk39RRz3yCF; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from tensor.andric.com (tensor.andric.com [87.251.56.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "tensor.andric.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: dim) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34F2A264A9; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dim@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:7a58::34af:fbc2:64d8:92da] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:7a58:0:34af:fbc2:64d8:92da]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tensor.andric.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C53296E9B9; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:46:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Dimitry Andric Message-Id: <5A7AD7E7-70ED-4029-9CD7-EE366FAE3BE8@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_703E23A5-DEF2-4B57-AC75-6CBB6EB98799"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.15\)) Subject: Re: compiling with ports llvm11 breaks on mman.h: struct shm_larg epage_conf Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:46:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: <11FD9B3A-E977-4188-99BF-B05BFDCFE923@FreeBSD.org> Cc: FreeBSD Current To: Ronald Klop References: <11FD9B3A-E977-4188-99BF-B05BFDCFE923@FreeBSD.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.15) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:47:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_703E23A5-DEF2-4B57-AC75-6CBB6EB98799 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 13 Sep 2020, at 20:56, Dimitry Andric wrote: >=20 > On 12 Sep 2020, at 23:00, Ronald Klop wrote: >>=20 >> On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 18:28:03 +0200, Dimitry Andric = wrote: >>> On 12 Sep 2020, at 17:43, Ronald Klop wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Because I'm tired of hours of compilation of llvm/clang I'm testing = compiling FreeBSD with llvm11 from a pkg. > ... > It is during the building world stage and happens with and without = NO_CLEAN. >> Full command: >> /usr/local/bin/clang11 -O2 -pipe -fno-common -DNO__SCCSID = -DNO__RCSID -I/usr/src/lib/libc >> /include -I/usr/src/include -I/usr/src/lib/libc/amd64 -DNLS = -D__DBINTERFACE_PRIVATE -I/usr/ >> src/contrib/gdtoa -I/usr/src/contrib/libc-vis -DINET6 = -I/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/lib/lib >> c -I/usr/src/lib/libc/resolv -D_ACL_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE = -I/usr/src/lib/libmd -I/usr/src/ >> contrib/jemalloc/include -DMALLOC_PRODUCTION = -I/usr/src/contrib/tzcode/stdtime -I/usr/src/li >> b/libc/stdtime -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DBROKEN_DES -DPORTMAP = -DDES_BUILTIN -I/usr/src/li >> b/libc/rpc -DWANT_HYPERV -DYP -DNS_CACHING -DSYMBOL_VERSIONING -g -MD = -MF.depend.shm_open.o >> -MTshm_open.o -std=3Dgnu99 -Wno-format-zero-length -nobuiltininc = -idirafter /usr/local/llvm11 >> /lib/clang/11.0.0/include -fstack-protector-strong -Wsystem-headers = -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-pointer-sign = -Wno-empty-body -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused- >> const-variable -Wno-tautological-compare -Wno-unused-value = -Wno-parentheses-equality -Wno-un >> used-function -Wno-enum-conversion -Wno-unused-local-typedef = -Wno-address-of-packed-member - >> Wno-switch -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-knr-promoted-parameter = -Qunused-arguments -I/usr/src/lib/libutil -I/usr/src/lib/msun/amd64 = -I/usr/src/lib/msun/x86 -I/usr/src/lib/msun/src -c /usr/ >> src/lib/libc/sys/shm_open.c -o shm_open.o >=20 > After a pretty long build of the llvm11 port, I can at least reproduce = your error. It looks like the problem is that clang11 does not get any = --sysroot parameter passed. ... > So except for the expected difference in the -idirafter option that = points to the clang internal headers, the main problem is that for some = reason, clang11 does not get the -target and --sysroot options passed. In the end it turns out that the problems is caused by setting CC (and = CXX, etc) in make.conf. This has the unfortunate side-effect that any = XCFLAGS are overridden during the world stages, such that the = all-important --sysroot flags is not added. In short, never set CC, CXX, CPP or LD in your make.conf or build = environment, but use XCC, XCXX, XCPP and XLD instead. Better yet, = install one of the llvm packages from the devel category, and set = CROSS_TOOLCHAIN. Keep an eye on https://wiki.freebsd.org/ExternalToolchain, which still = has a little bit of outdated information, but is hopefully going to be = updated soon. -Dimitry --Apple-Mail=_703E23A5-DEF2-4B57-AC75-6CBB6EB98799 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.2 iF0EARECAB0WIQR6tGLSzjX8bUI5T82wXqMKLiCWowUCX1+efAAKCRCwXqMKLiCW ozWVAJ9s1YTQBs9YxliVSLU912Etq6tHVwCggDHcqb1Dz5J1Owg0GfzyzqzCaws= =od9R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_703E23A5-DEF2-4B57-AC75-6CBB6EB98799-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 16:52:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7C03DBF6C for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:52:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x235.google.com (mail-oi1-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::235]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqsq660RDz3yPw; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:52:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x235.google.com with SMTP id y6so580956oie.5; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:52:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=w2+1HRTp3F8LyYTzgkfxQzq+HpQS1Mbqgm2tMltZWbA=; b=iosCRaS4ev3KKSBguCmdmRVBuo2ibsYIUqao1TKxDMe4i4LFzBMI4gVoE9KZSp7XHy Nvh3V8cxQy2UG0IdtFZx16DPzUrX9QsSSrKATb3hcy9DcSr4zoJoYb+UY6dDHozOyjVq ZgQWpQeUOCpeW/XN6KcM0iSGQ5Q6LFnv/1hMx5IxeFE5W3Q1R1d582lus2u8MBlcaR15 P7sU7jgfbZhmHlbRuyXIF8y0OeJ7QZXjnUUtLYkpImwPo3qDCBWpmv9711vGK8UQU5jg NaKpnFiM72d+ln/tRLcFgbiUKa741C6FT2J5uX+d+diu0feEY2M4FiiHJKxdOgP3fIg+ Sn1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532+UY1+/RMSMlF6kvrdtXVbeOklNtpLY5lBriRIfAlV4jsLuZ3+ iWNlxD6ohrwI0H0UmApAjkGugLBx7NbSEwOPQ3FMsQiMzt0NEQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz8v4WU7FCKrMn2wFiRfCGkKc/sLuvm5F0D8zPYMcDamY9+x61klMlGFaxjJ6E/DYBMTCkZEGVdtPDItDXwLY8= X-Received: by 2002:aca:d946:: with SMTP id q67mr189612oig.27.1600102353352; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:52:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Oberman Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 09:52:17 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Panic with wifi + usb in latest FreeBSD-current To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bqsq660RDz3yPw X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.08 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.896]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.001]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.987]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::235:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:52:35 -0000 On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 11:31 PM Adrian Chadd wrote: > On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 at 22:34, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:29 PM Adrian Chadd > > wrote: > > > >> Yeah, this was also reported in #freebsd-wireless today. > >> > >> Is there a lock being held in the rtwn path that shouldn't be? > >> > > > > I'll check in the morning... this was like the 20th thing to go wrong > this > > weekend, so I copied the panic down, send the email and grabbed a beer > and > > turned it off... > > > > Ok. I checked the driver and the usb stack; nothing in the change lists > obviously stands out to me at 11pm on a Sunday. > > Can you see if any locks are held? or an epoch? Something smells fishy. > (defining EPOCH_TRACE will dump the list of epochs, if I'm reading the > subr_sleepqueue.c code correctly.) > > Ok, so, since I dug a bit more on a hunch, I bet the NET epoch is being > held - it's grabbed in rtwn_bulk_rx_callback, and rtwn_rx_common is reading > some registers as part of processing the receive queue. I bet that act of > reading registers over blocking USB is causing things to explode. > > If it is net epoch then we're going to have to think of a better design > pattern here to migrate all of these here wifi drivers to, because I > guarantee you they're all behaving poorly in this newer world order. > > > > Thanks, > > > -adrian > While I have not seen panics, performance of my rtwn has simply cratered. Trying to move files to my new laptop, which has an rtwn, it crawls at about 1.5 Mbps. Before I built an updated kernel, I was seeing 60M. Of course, this is complicated by the continual kernel lockups I keep getting, so I really didn't think much about it until I saw Warner's note. -- Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683 From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 17:46:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F603DDC02 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 17:46:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqv1n68xvz438x for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 17:46:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com with SMTP id cv8so131727qvb.12 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cU+oNUd0h2uwqA78hS2sGNs2wc7wo6d2l6SUzEDCnTI=; b=U4/hKJv3aXbxZ7ViqcyD1g3WmF+bNzCB8C2EFUXx5dbVR81c4RkE6fzWKES5giVmWF gJ9xjCxzmCshp/tUwfVdpCPMkWIfEUNXazYhHJ52geDUFn6xG/DTQMM19BYlObOVa4V+ cDZ2xmRHUot+E9TTGBXlOOnfeLIjBhNW6TKCyOI/zB/S0aTqP6M3HAhodKx+4VBg1M+q mRa2yPTMZbKvIlCqf298PQk9Op3UBizk9fnd1emB50aFpd6y7io0zxAM+FtUeuv8qypP txNnF96WYl1bWoFLczEsYS0GIH3OIksKpLSSW4o6ZI8HIG74eB3Wxp/cmFBcCmv6aLsY 0SKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5315YLTr2RtBvtFnSVjNAx7S2TMPPaBdGwWY7BGPHLXLCSPhVwQK JXZnG/sT06zZd70kYvKYmBi7FsUMeeZ3W7rE9IIGbw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxivjZ1im5XFaMJmgMGq5xlWsr0TEetF9K0vVaEJYKLvQJxn7bSwKOpmKYHF+2WbvzzX8C1ximrvqHP3ZoVLqM= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e602:: with SMTP id z2mr14969374qvm.69.1600105610004; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:46:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202004151320.03FDKqT7027080@repo.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 11:46:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: ioctl argument type [Was Re: svn commit: r359968 - head/sys/kern] To: Xin LI Cc: FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , Poul-Henning Kamp , jilles@freebsd.org, Doug Rabson , Xin Li X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bqv1n68xvz438x X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.81 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.857]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.73)[-0.727]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.229]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2f:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 17:47:00 -0000 Sorry for top posting. I think that https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26423 is the proper fix to catchup to NetBSD/4.4BSD Lite-2. Warner On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 3:58 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 1:45 AM Xin LI wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have seen Chromium trigger the warning (I run -CURRENT with INVARIANTS) >> and looked into the code history a little bit. >> >> It seems that the command was changed to u_long in r36846 >> with a >> follow up commit of r38517 >> , possibly >> because ioctl was defined to take an unsigned long command before FreeBSD. > > > These commits were for the Alpha port. I think for two reasons. (1) long > was the size of a register there. (2) unsigned because BSD encoded types in > the cmd number: > > Prior to 4.2BSD, ioctls cmd weren't encoded and had simple int defines. Or > at least defines that fit into ints. For example: > #define TIOCGETD (('t'<<8)|0) /* get line discipline */ > which reflected the PDP-11 past where int was 16 bits and signed vs > unsigned as at best a hint to the reader. > > 4.2BSD introduced the encoding we have today with defines like: > > #define IOC_OUT 0x40000000 /* copy out parameters */ > #define IOC_IN 0x80000000 /* copy in parameters */ > #define IOC_INOUT (IOC_IN|IOC_OUT) > > which filled all 32-bits of the ioctl cmd and introduced the concept of > automatic copyin/copyout so the drivers wouldn't have to cope. The IOC_IN > being especially troublesome because it's not an int, but unsigned. But > that troublesome bit is still with us today: > > #define IOC_VOID 0x20000000 /* no parameters */ > #define IOC_OUT 0x40000000 /* copy out parameters */ > #define IOC_IN 0x80000000 /* copy in parameters */ > #define IOC_INOUT (IOC_IN|IOC_OUT) > > I had expected to find a 0x80000000ul or something similar there to get > around the warnings, but that was never undertaken. However, I think this > is the cause of our problems, see below for NetBSD's solution. > > That's a long way of saying, I'd expect it was to fix signedness warnings, > but I'm not seeing where the fix I expected to find for that is applied. :( > I do see we have a cast here: > #define _IOC(inout,group,num,len) ((unsigned long) \ > which quiets all the type mismatch warnings that would otherwise result in > if/case statements. If you trace it back through a line wrap obrien did, > you find it originate at > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=36735 which > justified the change as > This commit fixes various 64bit portability problems required for > FreeBSD/alpha. The most significant item is to change the command > argument to ioctl functions from int to u_long. This change brings us > inline with various other BSD versions. Driver writers may like to > use (__FreeBSD_version == 300003) to detect this change. > > Indeed, NetBSD also uses unsigned long in how I'd expect: > #define IOC_IN (unsigned long)0x80000000 > and doesn't have the icky cast we have above in their _IOC definition. > This was changed quite early in NetBSD's history (1994 by cgd) and is > reflected in all the post 4.4BSD variants of BSD except 386BSD as far as I > can tell from a quick peek. cgd later committed this into 4.4Lite2, the > SCCS files of which have: > > D 8.3 95/01/09 18:16:30 cgd 3 2 00010/00005/00033 > MRs: > COMMENTS: > 64-bit changes: ioctl cmd -> u_long, some protos. some style, return vals. > > I also suspect that since register_t == long (or unsigned long) this > helped with the calling conventions of some 64-bit architecture, while > hurting the 32-bit ones in NetBSD. But I can't find documentation of that. > > Internally, we have truncated it to 32-bit since 2005 (r140406 >> ), and >> this >> nrecent change made it a silent behavior. POSIX, on the other hand, >> defined >> >> ioctl as taking an int as its second parameter, but neither Linux (glibc >> in >> particular, despite its documentation says >> >> differently) nor macOS appear to define it that way, but Solaris seems >> to be >> defining it as an int. >> >> What was the motivation to keep the prototype definition as >> >> int >> ioctl(int fd, unsigned long request, ...); >> >> instead of: >> >> int >> ioctl(int fd, int request, ...); >> >> Other than to make existing code happy? Alternatively, will it be a good >> idea to give compiler some hints (e.g. by using __attribute__(enable_if)) >> to emit errors, if we insist keeping the existing signature? >> > > Given that this was changed 25 years ago, I think the ship has sailed on > changing the prototype now since it reflects down the stack into the > drivers. And there's likely a lot of code that would grow a signed vs > unsigned warning, or worse. > > As for the actual motivation, I suspect that it has to do with the > register size on the first 64-bit ports that NetBSD was doing and > contributing back to CSRG before 4.4Lite2 was released, but I can't find > anything more specific than the CSRG commit (or the NetBSD one that > preceded it which had similar verbiage). > > I honestly think, though, that our best bet is to use the NetBSD > definitions for IOC_* we see above. This would mean that the values > wouldn't be sign extended (unless someone hardcodes a bare 0x80000000 > somewhere) and I'll bet the warnings from Chrome would just disappear. They > properly cast the raw int to an unsigned long (though I suppose one could > use UL at the end, though bde would have objected in the code review that > followed). It would also reduce the diffs with NetBSD in an area that don't > need to be different from the 4.4Lite2 code. I'd be tempted to leave the > printf live and not turn it off like hps did. I'm guessing they used the > IOC_ stuff and hand-rolled the shifts without the cast we have. But I'm not > up for diving into that pool tonight... It's too deep to chase down the > define that leads to this. > > As to why we clip it at 32-bits, I'm less sure. It is handy to have it > clipped to 32-bits for 32-bit on 64-bit code situations, but I'll leave it > to Brooks to say if that's legit or not. I think we rely on it really only > having 32-bits of significance to reduce the number of changes we need in > drivers to support 32-bit IOCTL in COMPAT32 mode. > > Warner > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:21 AM Hans Petter Selasky >> wrote: >> >> > Author: hselasky >> > Date: Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 >> > New Revision: 359968 >> > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/359968 >> > >> > Log: >> > Cast all ioctl command arguments through uint32_t internally. >> > >> > Hide debug print showing use of sign extended ioctl command argument >> > under INVARIANTS. The print is available to all and can easily fill >> > up the logs. >> > >> > No functional change intended. >> > >> > MFC after: 1 week >> > Sponsored by: Mellanox Technologies >> > >> > Modified: >> > head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c >> > >> > Modified: head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c >> > >> > >> ============================================================================== >> > --- head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:13:46 2020 >> (r359967) >> > +++ head/sys/kern/sys_generic.c Wed Apr 15 13:20:51 2020 >> (r359968) >> > @@ -652,18 +652,19 @@ int >> > sys_ioctl(struct thread *td, struct ioctl_args *uap) >> > { >> > u_char smalldata[SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_SIZE] >> > __aligned(SYS_IOCTL_SMALL_ALIGN); >> > - u_long com; >> > + uint32_t com; >> > int arg, error; >> > u_int size; >> > caddr_t data; >> > >> > +#ifdef INVARIANTS >> > if (uap->com > 0xffffffff) { >> > printf( >> > "WARNING pid %d (%s): ioctl sign-extension ioctl >> > %lx\n", >> > td->td_proc->p_pid, td->td_name, uap->com); >> > - uap->com &= 0xffffffff; >> > } >> > - com = uap->com; >> > +#endif >> > + com = (uint32_t)uap->com; >> > >> > /* >> > * Interpret high order word to find amount of data to be >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >> " >> > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 19:56:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EE2C3E0E83 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 19:56:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [174.136.98.114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqxtv0CVBz4Gt3 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 19:56:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from [192.168.1.159] (cpe-23-243-161-111.socal.res.rr.com [23.243.161.111]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 9a9e7eeb (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO) for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 19:56:04 +0000 (UTC) To: FreeBSD Current From: Pete Wright Subject: Undefined symbol "lzc_remap" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 12:56:04 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bqxtv0CVBz4Gt3 X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.81 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.973]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.03)[-0.034]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.51)[-0.505]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25795, ipnet:174.136.96.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[23.243.161.111:received] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 19:56:08 -0000 Hello, I have a system running current that is acting a little odd after a rebuild from last night (sept 13th).  After reboot my root zfs pool mountd fine, but my second datavol "tank0" didn't auto-import/mount.  A manual "zpool import" then "zfs mount -a" got everything back where it should be, but I am noticing some odd behavior with iocage: ImportError: /lib/libzfs.so.3: Undefined symbol "lzc_remap" Interestingly enough this is the second update i've done to this system since the import of openzfs code, and iocage was operating without issues previously.  i am wondering does iocage need to be rebuild against newer sources or did something else change recently? -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 20:01:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7F53E1030 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqy0Z2DzMz4HZN for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com (mail-qt1-f171.google.com [209.85.160.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B5E628287 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id p65so1143134qtd.2 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:01:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532taSrZCfdsGt480qMUi8SBGtU7qvOLcI74jyyQa0UccbnkxgEP 2qsazHW5WH5HzEtTpDclGsB8Dq5FJs1Tca8JxvY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxdqRoY22NKFf0DSzUOh5un1gTP6BjtwXgS/HgbNg3m0Y7WCly7jgVWoYDEvZxGfzK/qjwmwNOVd87XP5xsgHY= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3261:: with SMTP id y30mr15176061qta.242.1600113661706; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:01:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 15:00:50 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Undefined symbol "lzc_remap" To: Pete Wright Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:02 -0000 On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 2:56 PM Pete Wright wrote: > > Hello, > I have a system running current that is acting a little odd after a > rebuild from last night (sept 13th). After reboot my root zfs pool > mountd fine, but my second datavol "tank0" didn't auto-import/mount. A > manual "zpool import" then "zfs mount -a" got everything back where it > should be, but I am noticing some odd behavior with iocage: > > ImportError: /lib/libzfs.so.3: Undefined symbol "lzc_remap" > > Interestingly enough this is the second update i've done to this system > since the import of openzfs code, and iocage was operating without > issues previously. i am wondering does iocage need to be rebuild > against newer sources or did something else change recently? > Hi, You'll need a ports tree >= r548105 and rebuild devel/py-libzfs from that -- that should be sufficient. Thanks, Kyle Evans From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 20:01:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 570A63E1282 for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [174.136.98.114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bqy1c089Yz4HRy; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from [192.168.1.159] (cpe-23-243-161-111.socal.res.rr.com [23.243.161.111]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 4365eb46 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Undefined symbol "lzc_remap" To: Kyle Evans Cc: FreeBSD Current References: From: Pete Wright Message-ID: <640ebb13-5476-b914-27cd-648e484a6ee3@nomadlogic.org> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 13:01:53 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bqy1c089Yz4HRy X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25795, ipnet:174.136.96.0/20, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:01:56 -0000 On 9/14/20 1:00 PM, Kyle Evans wrote: > On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 2:56 PM Pete Wright wrote: >> Hello, >> I have a system running current that is acting a little odd after a >> rebuild from last night (sept 13th). After reboot my root zfs pool >> mountd fine, but my second datavol "tank0" didn't auto-import/mount. A >> manual "zpool import" then "zfs mount -a" got everything back where it >> should be, but I am noticing some odd behavior with iocage: >> >> ImportError: /lib/libzfs.so.3: Undefined symbol "lzc_remap" >> >> Interestingly enough this is the second update i've done to this system >> since the import of openzfs code, and iocage was operating without >> issues previously. i am wondering does iocage need to be rebuild >> against newer sources or did something else change recently? >> > Hi, > > You'll need a ports tree >= r548105 and rebuild devel/py-libzfs from > that -- that should be sufficient. Thanks Kyle - you saved me quite a bit of debugging, i'll give that a spin now :) -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 20:22:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA39B3E1742; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lwhsu@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BqyT14rTzz4Jhg; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lwhsu@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1129) id 91A931C5D2; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:22:13 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:22:13 +0000 From: Li-Wen Hsu To: freebsd-testing@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD CI Weekly Report 2020-09-13 Message-ID: <20200914202213.GA19404@freefall.freebsd.org> Reply-To: freebsd-testing@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1600114933; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type; bh=lo1qoqAs0NMS3ABva7jWPNVBGooLSZH2sNbgBS6nBOI=; b=C59wkfq2MRQdj/5qjfpIP1CseevvVgEHJQ9qtcApisl4Z8ANw0gIoY34zg4SzI6RPY7IRt F7QwARM9esHmuTE7oU2VM5y/7sMXU6sop2hFNcMhH+H20cWwOUkWXulSZlzxhhAlwEkpS3 O646KSoSMViqdL7c+YXprfp9UHemrdDuQbh/0Z6Xa7TRsg5bFp4i15WoRbTDsoyvmUJdAy BL1Nolk441dibadV5jYl2WuFpThhBrT1fOFTBRqUEMFTcyXQyZvlvCWqEygKHlAeWlJvD3 fwnlObhduXXQsmI+VG32bF//U3uy72EDUVPH5LR6VZ1LAh2ykEikOpDKK39IPQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1600114933; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ps7mkw6E3xZhyLt821vRqWFfAUCtqgCHy66aB3gRmoOrlm/oviJD8h9v1yuNpRxD1h1O7C 4JFKl8O4cZ2yp3iOQmxXT1jx3fTQx785YgUfPbDSfk+k26pnd4oihDBgsgQ0HtHOXfIHGA aLqR2I/BrUDlEEMWJJ7m3m7Lka3LdA+DPJs1ak4wZFkGrW0Y3k270bhXBjxd67TWmJ2pTW SzjqBA1CwhTLLP/fSr0sYbFACp7A0jDdiV9zQKFVi6B+QRiSQrOCm52UvI7vJdZA3CGkgz km2v5jo0gICkyWsa2HwcBiPYERfAgnu3/qF+uUUi/6COoL3kEXD6Qj9DigCNvw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 20:22:13 -0000 FreeBSD CI Weekly Report 2020-09-13 =================================== Here is a summary of the FreeBSD Continuous Integration results for the period from 2020-09-07 to 2020-09-13. During this period, we have: * 2533 builds (94.0% (+2.0) passed, 6.0% (-2.0) failed) of buildworld and buildkernel (GENERIC and LINT) were executed on aarch64, amd64, armv6, armv7, i386, mips, mips64, powerpc, powerpc64, powerpcspe, riscv64, sparc64 architectures for head, stable/12, stable/11 branches. * 296 test runs (87.8% (+45.2) passed, 9.8% (-14.7) unstable, 2.4% (-30.5) exception) were executed on amd64, i386, riscv64 architectures for head, stable/12, stable/11 branches. * 26 doc and www builds (100% passed) Test case status (on 2020-09-13 23:59): | Branch/Architecture | Total | Pass | Fail | Skipped | | ------------------- | --------- | --------- | ----- | ------- | | head/amd64 | 7881 (+2) | 7791 (+2) | 0 (0) | 90 (0) | | head/i386 | 7879 (+2) | 7771 (+2) | 0 (0) | 108 (0) | | 12-STABLE/amd64 | 7626 (0) | 7569 (+3) | 0 (0) | 57 (-3) | | 12-STABLE/i386 | 7624 (0) | 7556 (0) | 0 (0) | 68 (0) | | 11-STABLE/amd64 | 6912 (0) | 6861 (0) | 0 (0) | 51 (0) | | 11-STABLE/i386 | 6910 (0) | 6857 (0) | 0 (0) | 53 (0) | (The statistics from experimental jobs are omitted) If any of the issues found by CI are in your area of interest or expertise please investigate the PRs listed below. The latest web version of this report is available at https://hackmd.io/@FreeBSD-CI/report-20200913 and archive is available at https://hackmd.io/@FreeBSD-CI/ , any help is welcomed. ## Failing jobs * https://ci.freebsd.org/job/FreeBSD-head-amd64-gcc6_build/ There are still mutiple errors when building with gcc6, error log available at https://ci.freebsd.org/job/FreeBSD-head-amd64-gcc6_build/lastCompletedBuild/console See also: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/svn-src-all/2020-September/202307.html ## Regressions * lib.libexecinfo.backtrace_test.backtrace_fmt_basic starts failing on amd64 after r360915 https://bugs.freebsd.org/246537 * lib.msun.ctrig_test.test_inf_inputs starts failing after llvm10 import https://bugs.freebsd.org/244732 Needs to check if llvm11 import fixes this. * Lock-order reversals triggered by tests under sys.net.if_lagg_test.* on i386 https://bugs.freebsd.org/244163 Discovered by newly endabled sys.net.* tests. ([r357857](https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/357857)) * sys.net.if_lagg_test.lacp_linkstate_destroy_stress panics i386 kernel https://bugs.freebsd.org/244168 Discovered by newly endabled sys.net.* tests. ([r357857](https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/357857)) Fix committed as https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/364220 , needs more verification. * lib.libbe.be_create.* and sbin.bectl.bectl_test.* https://bugs.freebsd.org/249055 & https://bugs.freebsd.org/249229 OpenZFS' zfs.ko can't be loaded in non-64bit platforms ## Failing and Flaky tests (from experimental jobs) * https://ci.freebsd.org/job/FreeBSD-head-amd64-dtrace_test/ * cddl.usr.sbin.dtrace.common.misc.t_dtrace_contrib.tst_dynopt_d * https://bugs.freebsd.org/237641 * common.ip.t_dtrace_contrib.tst_ipv4localsctp_ksh * common.ip.t_dtrace_contrib.tst_localsctpstate_ksh * https://ci.freebsd.org/job/FreeBSD-head-amd64-test_zfs/ * Total 681 tests, 524 success, 47 failures, 110 skipped, see https://ci.freebsd.org/job/FreeBSD-head-amd64-test_zfs/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/ for more details * https://ci.freebsd.org/job/FreeBSD-head-amd64-test_ltp/ * Total 3749 tests, 2289 success, 647 failures, 813 skipped ## Disabled Tests * sys.fs.tmpfs.mount_test.large https://bugs.freebsd.org/212862 * sys.fs.tmpfs.link_test.kqueue https://bugs.freebsd.org/213662 * sys.kqueue.libkqueue.kqueue_test.main https://bugs.freebsd.org/233586 * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__PT_KILL_competing_stop https://bugs.freebsd.org/220841 * lib.libc.regex.exhaust_test.regcomp_too_big (i386 only) https://bugs.freebsd.org/237450 * sys.netinet.socket_afinet.socket_afinet_bind_zero https://bugs.freebsd.org/238781 * sys.netpfil.pf.names.names * sys.netpfil.pf.synproxy.synproxy https://bugs.freebsd.org/238870 Workaround committed and need to verify. * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__follow_fork_child_detached_unrelated_debugger https://bugs.freebsd.org/239292 * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__follow_fork_both_attached_unrelated_debugger https://bugs.freebsd.org/239397 * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__parent_sees_exit_after_child_debugger https://bugs.freebsd.org/239399 * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__follow_fork_parent_detached_unrelated_debugger https://bugs.freebsd.org/239425 * sys.sys.qmath_test.qdivq_s64q https://bugs.freebsd.org/240219 * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__getppid https://bugs.freebsd.org/240510 * lib.libc.sys.stat_test.stat_socket https://bugs.freebsd.org/240621 * lib.libarchive.functional_test.test_write_filter_zstd https://bugs.freebsd.org/240683 * lib.libcasper.services.cap_dns.dns_test.main lib.libcasper.services.cap_net.net_test.* https://bugs.freebsd.org/241435 * local.kyua.* (31 cases) & local.lutok.* (3 cases) on 11-i386 https://ci.freebsd.org/job/FreeBSD-stable-11-i386-test/2278/testReport/ * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__procdesc_reparent_wait_child https://bugs.freebsd.org/243605 * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__parent_wait_after_attach https://bugs.freebsd.org/244055 * sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__parent_exits_before_child https://bugs.freebsd.org/244056 * sys.net.if_lagg_test.witness (i386) https://bugs.freebsd.org/244163 * PipePdfork.WildcardWait in sys.capsicum.capsicum-test.main https://bugs.freebsd.org/244165 * sys.net.if_lagg_test.lacp_linkstate_destroy_stress (i386) https://bugs.freebsd.org/244168 * sys.netinet6.frag6.frag6_07.frag6_07 https://bugs.freebsd.org/244170 * sys.netinet.fibs_test.udp_dontroute6 https://bugs.freebsd.org/244172 * sys.netpfil.pf.nat.exhaust https://bugs.freebsd.org/244703 Workaround committed and need to verify. * sys.geom.class.gate.ggate_test.ggated (i386) https://bugs.freebsd.org/244737 * sys.kern.sysv_test.msg https://bugs.freebsd.org/233649 ## Issues ### Cause build fails * https://bugs.freebsd.org/233769 Possible build race: ld: error: unable to find library -lgcc_s ### Cause kernel panics * https://bugs.freebsd.org/238870 sys.netpfil.pf.names.names and sys.netpfil.pf.synproxy.synproxy cause panic ### Open * https://bugs.freebsd.org/237641 Flakey test case: common.misc.t_dtrace_contrib.tst_dynopt_d * https://bugs.freebsd.org/237656 "Freed UMA keg (rtentry) was not empty (18 items). Lost 1 pages of memory." seen when running sys/netipsec tests * https://bugs.freebsd.org/238781 sys.netinet.socket_afinet.socket_afinet_bind_zero does not work when mac_portacl(4) loaded * https://bugs.freebsd.org/239292 Flakey test case: sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__follow_fork_child_detached_unrelated_debugger * https://bugs.freebsd.org/239397 Flakey test case: sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__follow_fork_both_attached_unrelated_debugger * https://bugs.freebsd.org/239399 Flakey test case: sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__parent_sees_exit_after_child_debugger * https://bugs.freebsd.org/239425 Flakey test case: sys.kern.ptrace_test.ptrace__follow_fork_parent_detached_unrelated_debugger * https://bugs.freebsd.org/241662 Flakey test case: lib.libarchive.functional_test.test_fuzz_iso9660 * https://bugs.freebsd.org/246443 sys.net.if_clone_test.epair_stress sometimes exceeds timeout limit but not caught by kyua * https://bugs.freebsd.org/247510 sys.net.if_lagg_test.status_stress panics kernel on i386 ### Others * [Tickets related to testing@](https://preview.tinyurl.com/y9maauwg) From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Sep 14 23:41:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBE13E541D for ; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:41:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-x242.google.com (mail-oi1-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::242]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Br2td35RXz4T40; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:41:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kob6558@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-x242.google.com with SMTP id c13so1770163oiy.6; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:41:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KHg/l4LzgXgj5p+beyiz/JVDuoQKU1yTEwXmOhO3zXo=; b=dmf+xVIzdb2fhAJb5+d5GaAOs0tgOeaM5T81C/t3egjPSM7+OFPn36WEJl0UA5IpRV cxLf8U07gT0uTnHdz1clJ7xrRgCpEi42Kl4jZq64ZIf11uIKKczVPJ6egiwYDWeGx1vQ kQ1LG1B4PlqZ66h9uSI1/n7GK1iK9JDpVvSyklCgb8AE9iukw8qaum4YcittEBd1QXFV lZdxJVxafjhej+kYprggXTEuR/xKg9KUXlGt2yk2vnD6kuk/HGXWZGoxl0M0VVNk4fzv twd5J4PuYWIsY1txMZXoRwDUH5XvdQSAWWYTm9V2W0fh0DF5guWBSAE4Uz8oi7xwVqI6 WTCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532PYKANGUEmvjDbayaTojQFRvynl+ySEpnCj26T7wfUMo0i/DE7 9WYcPW24cZThbKUk5SUorLG6tECNlg6fZZXTd8iVVak3hOE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwabGtr5ulgome5nUIVzfDUPftYIU6L2MqRO7VFvyD+Ag9X4Soe/yXVhpRBXdNECmsk8q0GRx33igt2fwM8uO4= X-Received: by 2002:aca:48cc:: with SMTP id v195mr1324141oia.57.1600126872447; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:41:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kevin Oberman Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:40:56 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Panic with wifi + usb in latest FreeBSD-current To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Warner Losh , FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Br2td35RXz4T40 X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.17 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.05)[-0.052]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[rkoberman@gmail.com,kob6558@gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.93)[-0.929]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.986]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::242:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 23:41:14 -0000 Small correction... My rtwn is running at 1 MB, not Mb. I have two tools watching the network, one does bits and the other bytes. Still, performance is really bad. Can't say whether it's the driver or something else, but I'll be gathering data as I can between reboots of my current system. Sorry for the bogus information. -- Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683 On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 9:52 AM Kevin Oberman wrote: > On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 11:31 PM Adrian Chadd > wrote: > >> On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 at 22:34, Warner Losh wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2020, 11:29 PM Adrian Chadd >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Yeah, this was also reported in #freebsd-wireless today. >> >> >> >> Is there a lock being held in the rtwn path that shouldn't be? >> >> >> > >> > I'll check in the morning... this was like the 20th thing to go wrong >> this >> > weekend, so I copied the panic down, send the email and grabbed a beer >> and >> > turned it off... >> > >> >> Ok. I checked the driver and the usb stack; nothing in the change lists >> obviously stands out to me at 11pm on a Sunday. >> >> Can you see if any locks are held? or an epoch? Something smells fishy. >> (defining EPOCH_TRACE will dump the list of epochs, if I'm reading the >> subr_sleepqueue.c code correctly.) >> >> Ok, so, since I dug a bit more on a hunch, I bet the NET epoch is being >> held - it's grabbed in rtwn_bulk_rx_callback, and rtwn_rx_common is >> reading >> some registers as part of processing the receive queue. I bet that act of >> reading registers over blocking USB is causing things to explode. >> >> If it is net epoch then we're going to have to think of a better design >> pattern here to migrate all of these here wifi drivers to, because I >> guarantee you they're all behaving poorly in this newer world order. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> -adrian >> > While I have not seen panics, performance of my rtwn has simply cratered. > Trying to move files to my new laptop, which has an rtwn, it crawls at > about 1.5 Mbps. Before I built an updated kernel, I was seeing 60M. Of > course, this is complicated by the continual kernel lockups I keep getting, > so I really didn't think much about it until I saw Warner's note. > -- > Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer > E-mail: rkoberman@gmail.com > PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683 > > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 00:00:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797483E5EE1; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:00:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-quarterly-calls@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Br3JL1Hhjz4VMt; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:00:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-quarterly-calls@freebsd.org) Delivered-To: freebsd-quarterly-calls@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F33123E5EA6; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:00:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Br3JJ65DSz4VQF; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:00:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from debdrup@freebsd.org) Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1471) id BE1541E953; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:00:00 +0000 (UTC) To: freebsd-quarterly-calls@FreeBSD.org Subject: [2 WEEKS LEFT REMINDER] Call for 2020Q3 quarterly status reports Message-Id: <20200915000000.BE1541E953@freefall.freebsd.org> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:00:00 +0000 (UTC) From: Daniel Ebdrup Jensen ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1600128000; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc; bh=GsZkOQ98mtEG+Y4D3fU55qcSdX0+pLRfjUgDx/1c48s=; b=yi26FTLa9wuBSElSjX1YWajCBfdKht0T//hhVlvfDdry/71UgJXiZG8m2GXCqEnQW2ato+ JHo6xDN/NWcjPeSV+uCFsblvuS/dv7tSxanJw1zm6iveDZ0etIwKKWK/EAZf/fE5Z7eO7n aXzYYtvfZaGZ0le+uOmrQwLMCFQ9ahQQVCKdZh6vaXld3SSOrzxarbGrhNetAyE/GKfECO kShyL+CULM7M6g0FlqUGgzwlUmmKZPZ0Y4mm15IGQGDnpz82UMfMQi52WIMUrQvkJWKsjH vIgmxqlAsf9Vnn6Hw+Iw0ZVBzry4crbL68cfsJPNwMcQkR5ko7MHYO9s+uQ2bQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1600128000; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=rKBjtTO/ljPTWweHwLZiXHEMLEhI+RvjW/MJBn6NSerdoQvJiINdZWset9evZMMZ0oFoOt fQh3fiO/jNK+zcvv8irKZlUcCBmkdM+xVgi2np7e3nP+H/EBDj9p/v79VoDCeCuQ3oovHh IdPW2vsd+4zra3rqS2ryjBDqCPH2sYBngqXVQ3T4glQ6i6ZjMfChcOrfJdTXHZ+RQYMcaS sQKVpn5S3jzhQXIOwDcBQqJC0Q+6SJJbhFlk0IYJbjPO8INUIfKc8D6SLwl5t/kNOk0r9y addBYJSyoLo3xl1zRbhvE6ypGHfRLCZm5l0NCEsHuZ7uKo8rxrCB6ijbS2t8dw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-BeenThere: freebsd-quarterly-calls@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: owner-freebsd-quarterly-calls@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-quarterly-calls@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 05:27:53 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 00:00:02 -0000 Dear FreeBSD Community, The deadline for the next FreeBSD Quarterly Status update is October, 1st 2020 for work done since the last round of Quarterly Reports: July 2020 - September 2020. I would like to remind you that reports are collected during the last month of every quarter. Status report submissions do not need to be very long. They may be about anything happening in the FreeBSD project and community, and they provide a great way to inform FreeBSD users and developers about work that is underway or has been completed. Report submissions are not limited to committers; anyone doing anything interesting and FreeBSD related can -- and should -- write one! The preferred method is to follow the guidelines at the Quarterly GitHub repository: https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-quarterly Alternatively you can fetch the Markdown template, fill it in, and email it to quarterly-submissions@FreeBSD.org. The template can be found at: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/freebsd/freebsd-quarterly/master/report-sample.md We look forward to seeing your 2020Q3 reports! Thanks, Daniel Ebdrup Jensen (on behalf of quarterly@) _______________________________________________ freebsd-quarterly-calls@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-quarterly-calls To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-quarterly-calls-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 06:23:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF20D3F2161; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 06:23:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrCq96xWtz4v3W; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 06:23:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [178.17.145.105]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6688226044C; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:23:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: USB sound devices with FreeBSD-CURRENT From: Hans Petter Selasky To: Graham Perrin , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD questions References: <9551111b-5dfb-c42b-6f58-81f6c8b8bbd1@gmail.com> <7731b641-687c-03e1-60b6-11f21595f13c@gmail.com> <56165f3e-515e-e048-a1e5-6f2f059f39c3@selasky.org> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 08:23:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56165f3e-515e-e048-a1e5-6f2f059f39c3@selasky.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrCq96xWtz4v3W X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.040]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.27)[0.272]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.87)[-0.865]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current,freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 06:23:50 -0000 On 2020-09-13 16:30, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 2020-09-13 16:13, Graham Perrin wrote: >> pcm3: (rec) >> pcm4: (play/rec) > > Or: > > -R /dev/dsp4 -P /dev/dsp4 > > -f /dev/dsp4 > > You can also add these parameters run-time via the GUI for virtual_oss. > As a follow up to this discussion I've lowered the default buffer latency to 8ms, which is the default for all USB devices. https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/ports/548703 --HPS From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 14:12:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 920293D3980 for ; 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[2001:19f0:5001:2b77:5400:2ff:fe7b:aa2c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f4sm11569077edm.76.2020.09.15.07.12.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 15 Sep 2020 07:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.10.84] ( [119.18.149.8]) by mx.bofh.network (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id a5fdfacf (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 15 Sep 2020 14:12:14 +0000 (UTC) From: FreeBSD Core Team Secretary Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ED8E017F-F0E3-4F5A-B32D-F6BA88E8CBFE"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:12:00 +0600 Subject: Core Team Office Hours Message-Id: <33FC5165-BD63-4A77-98DB-E955C50D3254@freebsd.org> To: announce@freebsd.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrQCl5ZLVz46Jm X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 14:21:19 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 14:12:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ED8E017F-F0E3-4F5A-B32D-F6BA88E8CBFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Based on the continuity of our last CORE Office Hours The FreeBSD CORE = Team would like to invite you all to a virtual town hall meeting. The = session is timed at 1800 UTC on 16th September, 2020. See = https://wiki.freebsd.org/OfficeHours for details on how to join either a = live stream to watch, or an interactive meeting to participate. A link = to this agenda (and any updates) will be there as well. We=E2=80=99ll be discussing the following topics and taking general = questions at the end. We=E2=80=99ll have a moderator who will help call = on people in the meeting to ask questions (or to offer comments) as well = as relay relevant questions from IRC. a. Git Transition -- To raise awareness, Ed Maste and Warner Losh will = be giving a brief presentation about the state of the project=E2=80=99s = planned transition to git. They can answer a few questions here, but are = also planning an entire office hours on the git transition (tentatively = scheduled in two weeks). b. Recruiting for project teams -- When a new core team takes over, = it=E2=80=99s a good time to assess the needs of each of the teams that = we have running different aspects of the project, such as administering = our machines and helping keep FreeBSD secure. One common theme is the = need for more help. We=E2=80=99ll discuss what teams there are, and make = a recruiting pitch and answer any questions. c. Core TODO List publishing -- To continue the openness initiative, the = core team will start publishing out TODO list. This will be in addition = to the normal meeting minutes and other openness ideas. The new core = team would love to hear from the community how to improve our = communications. d. General Questions -- Time permitting, the core team can answer any = other questions or concerns the community might have. Thanks! We look forward to meeting you. Regards, Moin (bofh), with core-secretary@ hat on --Apple-Mail=_ED8E017F-F0E3-4F5A-B32D-F6BA88E8CBFE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEES2Tp4L3ps+zAa1xm2MjIO0nybxcFAl9gy7BfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDRC NjRFOUUwQkRFOUIzRUNDMDZCNUM2NkQ4QzhDODNCNDlGMjZGMTcACgkQ2MjIO0ny bxfd8hAAr1s89b/EQv6MJVxs6GA3+GdnPc1lHLUdk0O+Shw6+CcSmO6HVs/BdBUS FgfVhfsuBZizUe3F8BrKfiSjq9GKHbPjGvPrp+t627QXsy7Vlp2QGblOqAqNe+RK K/9FSDjbTALRUX3hKj5yXWZs9oNy2KvphKJlVudwnFx8P4bzNOBCFU5V/mX5EYlo 0E84LOEg2T3HD+1XPk0PB1eXiQWjOfW/YADMXr1FliuNV58uUTaXsI8Gx5QVEr4L BeBGfBO0aKbdTBbkh05G5VCLx8s+p1WVZLHbjGcsR7GWSQNjuQMreEx5wXzsOgmj /4oeLseaBaAEp57QtDnecNA5U+j3A3UdkgsgPvXoVgAiKWx1Sl/lXkP5zCgPsiMB unGc9EZZZvLpizUGVyIguTzX4MxiB+HPC76htiQgChrzwKVncBJqmT7mcgWMt1Y1 F7/IchMhqrVPQGc1vDMuxDu1hZvoH1kXXb+1uy7qwSM3knhqJ1bNYSSjuQZTvOa/ 6XOI57Nc1oV5Pr2hTHvdfrBEBWURpKNLiXo9S/HUfJ9P81UhbFMTGbjefnGrowEt XNsquICh4UJ6njiuM5x+o3mP/5ejpZmRjgYzSUBbM3ktvUUtyGxTayyNe98xxooU sbXTYvJavKZjs6sQ6yRM7o5OOVETIrsG5XOGgT2GQQiu8UFDVwQ= =70pi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_ED8E017F-F0E3-4F5A-B32D-F6BA88E8CBFE-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 15:41:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DA33D6937; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 15:41:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrSBh5r5Bz4GKV; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 15:41:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@freebsd.org) Received: from FreeBSD.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17C6E97FC; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 15:41:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@freebsd.org) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 15:41:26 +0000 From: Glen Barber To: Emmanuel Vadot Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-git@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD snapshots available: main (20200903 c122cf32f2a) Message-ID: <20200915154126.GS61041@FreeBSD.org> References: <20200903150245.GS61041@FreeBSD.org> <20200903173354.33e97d36921d22506f58934b@bidouilliste.com> <20200903160051.GV61041@FreeBSD.org> <20200910182551.e863fb42c3c92223eb0ba09f@bidouilliste.com> <20200910163644.GQ61041@FreeBSD.org> <20200910184308.68640d4c967cee15d661e55e@bidouilliste.com> <20200910165330.GR61041@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Vt+fL0Zv5IJvZuef" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200910165330.GR61041@FreeBSD.org> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1600184492; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=wICSy0U9hJaDhGft21wxUWz7wU2qKXcAPIml5BEgavU=; b=p1ochX3sfXxVQZuad3JhI3tIrXo7meuedlwzt5mjN+oBU8tZ1VGa7C4Nxj/0jJsc6fMIoK 8tjIVhRODKTBY3TNTBndOkClACyWWFAf7uGuVpVTWxjSDtT2dgzGa1WU7gai81Q/YD5Jgb tgCeOBSUgZDCIxFJK65bI7mtk1cobQZdo6X7Kh5GRKRrk+WtTBSQhJdCnPN1l50frAftoS Gdsf5TP3jXf4bm1GmZqH+fvarPmLbjvFlsKu7hAP9Y7eR1HgBGxkIvRUf+n2QrBwiIApO7 T1MQ3S1tF7BJOBCAzlKCzq0k/DsLdY58Zpg8a0tIYNncdADa+FMHFMT4HueqKg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1600184492; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HgFQydvH6vgElF+FH5u6TZ3z4kGElI8BgxCjTBugX+FXxzTUwiQkFv0lwx7HMUsfWQCxOh KPGYpYptC7vIBJaP4aGZUePwYxFzYfNQ5q6c3kkzExnbwM54JRJZplQZ82DjkEcRV9n+Aa S4SQpqjhN4xIiSQSwS7c1nuELGfX4iL3g9KknGE0Pv/4OBcDa9m1YNiNtAIai2sqYAt1QS P5rApk+ICw+KUsb8NmtMsOxIsc3xui2z+nTfle4LNiMSAvVqMhTec5R56FsS54TpFY+LCU h0rx4yUt8Cd5CeWEw4gZfpp6IRxB+yCFAsF4qg0Jx7La+kjG85aQxQLoZpab4g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 15:41:33 -0000 --Vt+fL0Zv5IJvZuef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 04:53:30PM +0000, Glen Barber wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 06:43:08PM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > > Which port commit and which board ? There haven't been a commit in the > > u-boot ports or rpi-firmware this a month now so I fails to understand > > without more info. > >=20 >=20 [...] >=20 > But I think the build would have failed in this case if the fetch > succeeded, based on logs from other boards. >=20 I have committed a fix to release/release.sh (r365725) that allows overriding the RELENGDIR variable if called from an external script, as well as committed fixes to ^/user/gjb/thermite-git/ (365752) which moves where RELENGDIR gets set for these boards. This week's builds should be fine. Glen --Vt+fL0Zv5IJvZuef Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEjRJAPC5sqwhs9k2jAxRYpUeP4pMFAl9g4KEACgkQAxRYpUeP 4pPcvA//VxPqw1m/gCArEFCSMU6Fwjel8lVgmsDmUFYldwZ8ZePK2U2X3zQa9XVZ 61wnxRQqzLfSIWKfoQ31ftr7ws2rnXo91cTpthW6fflyk7071hPmiE5Xw5XpoCfD TftSmrqQQhLCKSkiKeCdiRPU9VBDN5LDE+mQwCgUramrF9aOUBgPxoBMejuIIg6h DcUmH78pUpqHYDkzHbBb4nntKXuxdvGGXgAXrpqNqmKIZdHzQyVdwVMyLGTwzE+w 5RmpxWWuJ3jw7jA1YGs/34CknZM+aHdN/n3/ivIeYgoNX2pZc6bPx7WekQLV1O3i 0UEID98MNRRE76agcETXHyu30mnwJKclvWYimahY9iz7n4a+xZmpq6P67jVfN+c4 hkO3kCQxbgEvPja3/0/JGHrtKCi4i3r9tsGcsYT1RWtHtoiXaQb7TRl1vGm1MnBe M3wsHAAo6Ht4buIuL17vKKL4s8UYz1+MhfJKBicbvc0R3wdOM2zgJOsKm8n5Jgii Mvv8ls3NBJ7GH2NpNtVgIfaSxenqWlm0jbVkYrg0IVkNUj9EZG0aKf2AW00x8Viw rCJp6ey+PEVf2RGbrY8qGSRHhlCmM9wm+ux6wAWZDtj5/x8a9vK6XOwztE/a0Pmk KqFULtXBi+ozjE4SS/gIdVfrcRS26kVqz/2eQDhv+9KgAei3m9I= =8Sdx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Vt+fL0Zv5IJvZuef-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 16:33:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C3E3D8327 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:33:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrTM16QCHz4KZv; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id 88CF23C0199; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:33:43 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:33:43 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: Dimitry Andric Cc: Ronald Klop , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: compiling with ports llvm11 breaks on mman.h: struct shm_larg epage_conf Message-ID: <20200915163343.GA65749@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <11FD9B3A-E977-4188-99BF-B05BFDCFE923@FreeBSD.org> <5A7AD7E7-70ED-4029-9CD7-EE366FAE3BE8@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jRHKVT23PllUwdXP" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5A7AD7E7-70ED-4029-9CD7-EE366FAE3BE8@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrTM16QCHz4KZv X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:199.48.128.0/22, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 16:33:50 -0000 --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 06:46:52PM +0200, Dimitry Andric wrote: > On 13 Sep 2020, at 20:56, Dimitry Andric wrote: > >=20 > > On 12 Sep 2020, at 23:00, Ronald Klop wrote: > >>=20 > >> On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 18:28:03 +0200, Dimitry Andric w= rote: > >>> On 12 Sep 2020, at 17:43, Ronald Klop wrote: > >>>>=20 > >>>> Because I'm tired of hours of compilation of llvm/clang I'm testing = compiling FreeBSD with llvm11 from a pkg. > > ... > > It is during the building world stage and happens with and without NO_C= LEAN. > >> Full command: > >> /usr/local/bin/clang11 -O2 -pipe -fno-common -DNO__SCCSID -DNO__RCS= ID -I/usr/src/lib/libc > >> /include -I/usr/src/include -I/usr/src/lib/libc/amd64 -DNLS -D__DBINT= ERFACE_PRIVATE -I/usr/ > >> src/contrib/gdtoa -I/usr/src/contrib/libc-vis -DINET6 -I/usr/obj/usr/s= rc/amd64.amd64/lib/lib > >> c -I/usr/src/lib/libc/resolv -D_ACL_PRIVATE -DPOSIX_MISTAKE -I/usr/src= /lib/libmd -I/usr/src/ > >> contrib/jemalloc/include -DMALLOC_PRODUCTION -I/usr/src/contrib/tzcode= /stdtime -I/usr/src/li > >> b/libc/stdtime -I/usr/src/lib/libc/locale -DBROKEN_DES -DPORTMAP -DDES= _BUILTIN -I/usr/src/li > >> b/libc/rpc -DWANT_HYPERV -DYP -DNS_CACHING -DSYMBOL_VERSIONING -g -MD = -MF.depend.shm_open.o > >> -MTshm_open.o -std=3Dgnu99 -Wno-format-zero-length -nobuiltininc -idir= after /usr/local/llvm11 > >> /lib/clang/11.0.0/include -fstack-protector-strong -Wsystem-headers -W= error -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -Wno-uninitialized -Wno-pointer-sign -Wno-empty= -body -Wno-string-plus-int -Wno-unused- > >> const-variable -Wno-tautological-compare -Wno-unused-value -Wno-parent= heses-equality -Wno-un > >> used-function -Wno-enum-conversion -Wno-unused-local-typedef -Wno-addr= ess-of-packed-member - > >> Wno-switch -Wno-switch-enum -Wno-knr-promoted-parameter -Qunused-argu= ments -I/usr/src/lib/libutil -I/usr/src/lib/msun/amd64 -I/usr/src/lib/ms= un/x86 -I/usr/src/lib/msun/src -c /usr/ > >> src/lib/libc/sys/shm_open.c -o shm_open.o > >=20 > > After a pretty long build of the llvm11 port, I can at least reproduce = your error. It looks like the problem is that clang11 does not get any --sy= sroot parameter passed. > ... > > So except for the expected difference in the -idirafter option that poi= nts to the clang internal headers, the main problem is that for some reason= , clang11 does not get the -target and --sysroot options passed. >=20 > In the end it turns out that the problems is caused by setting CC (and CX= X, etc) in make.conf. This has the unfortunate side-effect that any XCFLAGS= are overridden during the world stages, such that the all-important --sysr= oot flags is not added. >=20 > In short, never set CC, CXX, CPP or LD in your make.conf or build environ= ment, but use XCC, XCXX, XCPP and XLD instead. Better yet, install one of t= he llvm packages from the devel category, and set CROSS_TOOLCHAIN. >=20 > Keep an eye on https://wiki.freebsd.org/ExternalToolchain, which still ha= s a little bit of outdated information, but is hopefully going to be update= d soon. I've made some modest updates to this page to reflect building with modern LLVM ports. -- Brooks --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJfYOzmAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAxlIH/3dIwD1ruFJ7gG13JeaVTpga EVFcOP67Je3gbdIL5BST7lPQuoUKzJ8Sfip2rBZKNwkw/3IJZDQa31CAX8KWb8OK LIviyr8prLXpiL3HOkIHNf33rfFrEwGqoyG0QEHP0YRwjsXwvkogdSzFkzU2eNe9 v2QJxvYvZ6iC+7Z84JvknWOSvBgq6KeWyq62GYWfl2WkbinmbUSIZ5LIX4QNJfLI 7RtTm4M16UVsd2bHvtfvqDqI5m8XWQOwrZhLGExFNrBDtM8AJsqcfrPSyp0yQzfa VZOP496R3yFWhRbjR0JeLFbm/9FqvsBmu9FBA4XpmyZj1bsL1UcMsZpwQXS1Blo= =+TBN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jRHKVT23PllUwdXP-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 19:36:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F333DDA72 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:36:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: from mail.modirum.com (mail.modirum.com [185.42.170.44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrYPN4TTNz4XM1 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:36:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: by mail.modirum.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kIGkG-000OuI-J4 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:36:04 +0000 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org From: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= Subject: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) Autocrypt: addr=ltning@anduin.net; keydata= mQGiBER75WwRBACP+1m6g/QUwH3CsJFpfQy50U3bRWaLrpCg+p4jzheLE9l5yfqT7bqPQt/w IXUFjpSEtEMqHxBoKXCLaVW56i74zobFPda3Msj7SwFvUI4oo4N1HVquS/PbjiMfn0sTb9wO YHNza2Q+qxhq9Vk6uyjCq3Q0iYouDz2nZNtnP7023wCgoWbGucQyzxm0i//GaICKf/2TFPUD /2PCaia5BXL9YKI/s8gVHKnUQuaHun6eDmhdiiZ4kdzCnwmBVKogChy0iglH8PmyNww0CW+1 VKTzTXVlqWH78QcNMUYW6wzmyBWK+1zgfasJdrcK+9/23//p4JVlJgnX9l6YixZr/hs9Oj3C RtFkuJ377sNP7XdwSyeITd26indwA/oCeBvVoHW34NGaT1FfI8tjHHhUsNpel3zDaiHEjCcT SffB/zQuLgGZU+bJ+nBIPqrzJ2LwVEJf1gmfysUUQN3ubP44m/dMUxDyHfR1XJfoc1j/H9YH 8H8L8I98l34TTBdVVJBPfsUhERDtfxumfsAoXe1OJC0MxLGVQYUnMZKRCLQhRWlyaWsgT2V2 ZXJieSA8bHRuaW5nQGFuZHVpbi5uZXQ+iGEEExECACECGwMGCwkIBwMCAxUCAwMWAgECHgEC F4AFAkeLFlECGQEACgkQDRlfnc8VQWeAhACfYOl14JOJtcmYehWVARL7pEl7CCQAn1V0AXc4 1mfCGrT4unheqtvuRi0suQQNBER75cUQEAClD2IXaoBElcXYBRBHduoWR+RH3kQT9oYH2F0l FuSpaWbhFxKS8WmIz2dwyDvvz+yBNIyftiIssE7i8CduWH9h/hcKAm1IhhEyb8otcOBnWz38 u6QRBVk5H7dGLelwm9X4HKR1/lWhetyB0FBDAvVKleaQZzPKnSL5FerU5nJy36IINWlJ27cN nZ0kbs2O6VMdqlAWob/R+Ygr1zYFxdV4Dy69rxDj0sezdtIYWkCbQg1EzQMnzOsEWcAnnQzX lVMCFCldWBaGEU/E5T82GG6LGUtUhj5R9eAh4cDXcaJkamkJIU1LvFyfQ9J8vmJvabsQbGBe dsI/2r/4cZfYYqWe2JOliRIBonPUNlydZuDVjPd2sL5se5wICZzlFajU2FdKGflCtiB92kSy BQ1Ng26RIx4ZcQE7hEZ2XO9p3fBwZ/tEYdeJ4CdXuZqctPLvVn0JpskO8G86aM+WgCAFUrGB QBL39ouP6wyAKaY/vRNyK0oKRDIu4J0n1KrJupspideY61yuFBK6mZUBctdEdivr5yZy6zak OfANvS9Q4ll+aaVy4dsZ5IVSTE5aFP5vQOBWwBN8g81NtrzwWP1jkNfYvo6jA/rIsvHA5GLf GFwDEaLOSoPYdFx5YG952zW9we/190HeO58zMCyKv57DuGdt1FlVCiH0eQN36PkwgzqR+wAD Bg/+Pr4yjhcJrG/umxFk0NIQ/clpiJ6OXsspiFH9PgJ0EQpYVW814lDEHEjPeIuw8QHGeumB mIMBDQ9Y01iyaxFFtD6JkvF5YFL+ajRmIkHlYutI08+IK9FutskCQDSxwbcV6frE5u1mFcZn LnajCR872F52qVKac+X+bVFScscw3iwBPvO6By2UIhfnqw7CyWEVic8C1uCMpPxJDzvU8mXO NGGm+5QrX8Mz/IrPqKeCRYCAi04nsYoWjdL6l6KCY/Y5i0r8rhOSpxQGQtPVYFxiz98snAV5 nsDY/8dMIq4oY0qrOR1soIMA15M/wVFIp32ybj7TsDqT5MboAdlPUeWO2r4DSWQq4+QufiKG uVEBxQLTBm+mqAgyeQFucBHVdy45nDqlo9mANu9USPaJZWpo+j+GW3am3tGawaUr5MTTZZIQ GY0XvlI5XrsnfWhzCZ/ntC6HoepixHlteuhlbsI/awemMDBpfIpcEymWxT7U1SKf3kflbqjQ jOJosdRATaKwQidw56pka0FtnFePlXk5UVaZUFA2REcr7jUZfqUJe+6/z3YOO+/tQuANa+Ba FvJGpyBkVnNwF80nz65eSQAkGxd9GwsTcmb8XBoEp8uDG/QzpYY71N0eb761ycdAZ6BwnPYd ih8pbczRcdIFopv03mqV/bUD+MOVLBLKG80UwXiISQQYEQIACQUCRHvlxQIbDAAKCRANGV+d zxVBZ+m0AJ9ejou5ID3iQhtKSecwm/Lh3776lACgm30erYDruurUMGCkKD2fW1JEvBw= Message-ID: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 21:36:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Authenticated: Yes X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrYPN4TTNz4XM1 X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.63 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.87)[-0.872]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[anduin.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.13)[-0.129]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[185.42.170.44:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.33)[-0.332]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62248, ipnet:185.42.170.0/24, country:NO]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:36:09 -0000 Hi, ever since I started using my 6th gen ThinkPad X1 Carbon as my daily work horse back in 2019 I have had occasional problems getting it to wake from sleep. Lately I thought I had nailed it down somewhat - making sure I close the lid (which is the only condition in which it will sleep on its own) only while the screen is actually on. Closing the lid when the screensaver had turned the display off would almost certainly prevent waking from sleep. Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been able to wake from sleep. The problem manifests thus: The computer seems to go to sleep correctly; the LED on the display starts pulsating as it should and all fan activity stops. Upon opening the lid, the pulsating stops, but the power LED pulsates instead. There is no display activity and no signs of it actually waking up. Force-power-off is the only way to resuscitate, after which (and I am fairly sure I'm not imagining this) it is very hard to get my GELI password right - so another power cycle is required before the keyboard is fully reliable pre-boot. I have absolutely no idea how to go about debugging this. The BIOS on the system is pretty new, the TPM chip is disabled (that seemed to help reliability quite a bit), and unused/unsupported devices are disabled in BIOS. No BIOS configuration has changed between the revisions. Any hints would be more than welcome. Thanks all, /Eirik From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 19:51:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711E83DE496 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:51:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f44.google.com (mail-lf1-f44.google.com [209.85.167.44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrYkY1dc5z4YVR for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:51:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f44.google.com with SMTP id y17so4398935lfa.8 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 12:51:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=QD1GdekWtJRWG0hIhiSfuBzCIZ6s7V5DUlUjkMlFGbA=; b=Lyd1BRottA+FuHFxtnuXiYUf5M5FUL8skqD4NPx6wVD6c2uESNHZx3JPghBWvKWk5f TO+5nmMAtnNlK7X7q5ZuvcEf7JcquDM4ns8Ol+lGOfduQ3hr+fule1KLuusXJYFHNjv0 gtXTX9EyQD+QUkRIsH76vGzxjeokfcb877llCd6nDjimPp1Pxxd3PQ4rsRTjYFUhoDNG HQaxIuQxk7G2kVS8s9i5CgvYrLvJYWaurxVAO7zzT/5AuDEWSoNjbkO791Gi6Pkcw/gI wrWNe9iBfa22hvBjTXMi3PYa4hscCnycbw87g8600H5WCKRN3/tJAXzPwnAiRogsYhUl FzNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530raqlgYMIK8k/Ke3AiG4iFm/F0zEI3wXe3aOGMryVfVEMYG6bE WdPNjVnUhDPwdKrkU9ghFdZDp/wut1E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyy81U/GVOG33J8vKWh51rrV10WXmljDDY6EcjmLSbkeM1zzkzwjysxjKPUWIBQ1EbLPjcpgw== X-Received: by 2002:a19:992:: with SMTP id 140mr6171214lfj.273.1600199459212; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 12:50:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (east.meadow.volia.net. [93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id x2sm4893144lji.9.2020.09.15.12.50.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Sep 2020 12:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> From: Andriy Gapon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avg@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEX1iFDhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAiu8JG/oLFkVkOAJqJc7Dx5KI/Q6C3SBI20EQm+DXnAu0 HkFuZHJpeSBHYXBvbiA8YXZnQEZyZWVCU0Qub3JnPoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEyCHHZM09l0OE3Ir/ 1A1+Gq8+L1EFAl9YhQ4CGwMFCQeEzgAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ1A1+ Gq8+L1Fc0wD/ZjmhHfbCJywZU3aOxXIPjcz73FYEGMvqMCCLAWyLbSABALFL+1ZNrjV3BGjq 889cOYFuboA/Yn3eWezS+tfqYBsGuDgEX1iFDhIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQL6B20Xi600TrkpG P9fWjl7JtHNxqrHKhX6Kg7kgb4ILAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEEyCHHZM09l0OE3Ir/1A1+Gq8+ L1EFAl9YhQ4CGwwFCQeEzgAACgkQ1A1+Gq8+L1F3cgEAktp4h+IJUJxL1vn6zMOt//znni/J TanKfQuA8wGXcGkBAKpZJhqMkg+pKk7MGvJhgJ6nCpTZ+rMK6vZVZLUWc3QF Message-ID: <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 22:50:56 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrYkY1dc5z4YVR X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.59 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.60)[-0.604]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[93.72.151.96:received]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.944]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.043]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.167.44:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.167.44:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 19:51:02 -0000 On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik Øverby wrote: > Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been able to wake from sleep. Is that the only thing that changed? Any port / package upgrades? -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Sep 15 20:13:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2703DECE3 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:13:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: from mail.modirum.com (mail.modirum.com [185.42.170.44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrZDk1rTDz4ZyG for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:13:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: by mail.modirum.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kIHKd-0006La-FO for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:13:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= Autocrypt: addr=ltning@anduin.net; keydata= mQGiBER75WwRBACP+1m6g/QUwH3CsJFpfQy50U3bRWaLrpCg+p4jzheLE9l5yfqT7bqPQt/w IXUFjpSEtEMqHxBoKXCLaVW56i74zobFPda3Msj7SwFvUI4oo4N1HVquS/PbjiMfn0sTb9wO YHNza2Q+qxhq9Vk6uyjCq3Q0iYouDz2nZNtnP7023wCgoWbGucQyzxm0i//GaICKf/2TFPUD /2PCaia5BXL9YKI/s8gVHKnUQuaHun6eDmhdiiZ4kdzCnwmBVKogChy0iglH8PmyNww0CW+1 VKTzTXVlqWH78QcNMUYW6wzmyBWK+1zgfasJdrcK+9/23//p4JVlJgnX9l6YixZr/hs9Oj3C RtFkuJ377sNP7XdwSyeITd26indwA/oCeBvVoHW34NGaT1FfI8tjHHhUsNpel3zDaiHEjCcT SffB/zQuLgGZU+bJ+nBIPqrzJ2LwVEJf1gmfysUUQN3ubP44m/dMUxDyHfR1XJfoc1j/H9YH 8H8L8I98l34TTBdVVJBPfsUhERDtfxumfsAoXe1OJC0MxLGVQYUnMZKRCLQhRWlyaWsgT2V2 ZXJieSA8bHRuaW5nQGFuZHVpbi5uZXQ+iGEEExECACECGwMGCwkIBwMCAxUCAwMWAgECHgEC F4AFAkeLFlECGQEACgkQDRlfnc8VQWeAhACfYOl14JOJtcmYehWVARL7pEl7CCQAn1V0AXc4 1mfCGrT4unheqtvuRi0suQQNBER75cUQEAClD2IXaoBElcXYBRBHduoWR+RH3kQT9oYH2F0l FuSpaWbhFxKS8WmIz2dwyDvvz+yBNIyftiIssE7i8CduWH9h/hcKAm1IhhEyb8otcOBnWz38 u6QRBVk5H7dGLelwm9X4HKR1/lWhetyB0FBDAvVKleaQZzPKnSL5FerU5nJy36IINWlJ27cN nZ0kbs2O6VMdqlAWob/R+Ygr1zYFxdV4Dy69rxDj0sezdtIYWkCbQg1EzQMnzOsEWcAnnQzX lVMCFCldWBaGEU/E5T82GG6LGUtUhj5R9eAh4cDXcaJkamkJIU1LvFyfQ9J8vmJvabsQbGBe dsI/2r/4cZfYYqWe2JOliRIBonPUNlydZuDVjPd2sL5se5wICZzlFajU2FdKGflCtiB92kSy BQ1Ng26RIx4ZcQE7hEZ2XO9p3fBwZ/tEYdeJ4CdXuZqctPLvVn0JpskO8G86aM+WgCAFUrGB QBL39ouP6wyAKaY/vRNyK0oKRDIu4J0n1KrJupspideY61yuFBK6mZUBctdEdivr5yZy6zak OfANvS9Q4ll+aaVy4dsZ5IVSTE5aFP5vQOBWwBN8g81NtrzwWP1jkNfYvo6jA/rIsvHA5GLf GFwDEaLOSoPYdFx5YG952zW9we/190HeO58zMCyKv57DuGdt1FlVCiH0eQN36PkwgzqR+wAD Bg/+Pr4yjhcJrG/umxFk0NIQ/clpiJ6OXsspiFH9PgJ0EQpYVW814lDEHEjPeIuw8QHGeumB mIMBDQ9Y01iyaxFFtD6JkvF5YFL+ajRmIkHlYutI08+IK9FutskCQDSxwbcV6frE5u1mFcZn LnajCR872F52qVKac+X+bVFScscw3iwBPvO6By2UIhfnqw7CyWEVic8C1uCMpPxJDzvU8mXO NGGm+5QrX8Mz/IrPqKeCRYCAi04nsYoWjdL6l6KCY/Y5i0r8rhOSpxQGQtPVYFxiz98snAV5 nsDY/8dMIq4oY0qrOR1soIMA15M/wVFIp32ybj7TsDqT5MboAdlPUeWO2r4DSWQq4+QufiKG uVEBxQLTBm+mqAgyeQFucBHVdy45nDqlo9mANu9USPaJZWpo+j+GW3am3tGawaUr5MTTZZIQ GY0XvlI5XrsnfWhzCZ/ntC6HoepixHlteuhlbsI/awemMDBpfIpcEymWxT7U1SKf3kflbqjQ jOJosdRATaKwQidw56pka0FtnFePlXk5UVaZUFA2REcr7jUZfqUJe+6/z3YOO+/tQuANa+Ba FvJGpyBkVnNwF80nz65eSQAkGxd9GwsTcmb8XBoEp8uDG/QzpYY71N0eb761ycdAZ6BwnPYd ih8pbczRcdIFopv03mqV/bUD+MOVLBLKG80UwXiISQQYEQIACQUCRHvlxQIbDAAKCRANGV+d zxVBZ+m0AJ9ejou5ID3iQhtKSecwm/Lh3776lACgm30erYDruurUMGCkKD2fW1JEvBw= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 22:13:34 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Authenticated: Yes X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrZDk1rTDz4ZyG X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.65 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.88)[-0.879]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[anduin.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.13)[-0.131]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[185.42.170.44:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.34)[-0.337]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62248, ipnet:185.42.170.0/24, country:NO]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2020 20:13:44 -0000 On 9/15/20 9:50 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik Øverby wrote: >> Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been able to wake from sleep. > > Is that the only thing that changed? > Any port / package upgrades? There have been updates to packages, yes - but it didn't even occur to me that these could impact the resume process at such an early stage. Not sure which that would be; obviously the drm module has been rebuilt each time I upgraded, but I don't have any other kernel modules installed from packages. /Eirik From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 06:30:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11A93EFCEE for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:30:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-f181.google.com (mail-lj1-f181.google.com [209.85.208.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrqwZ5s8tz4HsZ for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:30:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-f181.google.com with SMTP id a15so4954604ljk.2 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 23:30:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=J28zuK2DQbjCFIxbTOtPT/Dm+h7jW3MGQ0TSsYRYJQg=; b=ApjCZp+useR/YTUcXICIL0DoPum5V4ea9k2u5T5C+ldKjGw3MgkERmk0Tbm2mRK32t ctPsxJztqLtPEK1YCosfUMKDpdpzYLsAw0RYgMvmAVT4JKtn275JNwH7KvpFJ6uKGhlq GvReSM/V5rrgeFaAUfEYXC4dWCLDw/oWLJ3qDep6bW/rwIZ2N3837eIUv/+oa7qwMmcw pdgZ62WSeJeiardf8e8eex5rlVMfhwcBbrx+PLpNgB8ZCWdQmzN67kYVo2l2flbnAJb/ N9r4xUb0wGdCLyHofYUbu1XqykOD5BGrVZyNOredAyrDw+GD7dS5+Masxe6tIodTQ3fN ydkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533aNw43nmgFKKQI0RwVD3I69U+f62QctReZiUbaOwUFusSpg6VV 0zO/O07nkiHkPSGg9XRpNZ/jqcPhdhQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw8ZGC6G+3o3pJUfmzxPJNH93mv/jndQooSg7JE8MDo5Qc3xTEj3QYgIN3VCI97TU43/jl6xw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3008:: with SMTP id w8mr8878239ljw.63.1600237836851; Tue, 15 Sep 2020 23:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (east.meadow.volia.net. [93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id n4sm4431631lfe.246.2020.09.15.23.30.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Sep 2020 23:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> From: Andriy Gapon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avg@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEX1iFDhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAiu8JG/oLFkVkOAJqJc7Dx5KI/Q6C3SBI20EQm+DXnAu0 HkFuZHJpeSBHYXBvbiA8YXZnQEZyZWVCU0Qub3JnPoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEyCHHZM09l0OE3Ir/ 1A1+Gq8+L1EFAl9YhQ4CGwMFCQeEzgAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ1A1+ Gq8+L1Fc0wD/ZjmhHfbCJywZU3aOxXIPjcz73FYEGMvqMCCLAWyLbSABALFL+1ZNrjV3BGjq 889cOYFuboA/Yn3eWezS+tfqYBsGuDgEX1iFDhIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQL6B20Xi600TrkpG P9fWjl7JtHNxqrHKhX6Kg7kgb4ILAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEEyCHHZM09l0OE3Ir/1A1+Gq8+ L1EFAl9YhQ4CGwwFCQeEzgAACgkQ1A1+Gq8+L1F3cgEAktp4h+IJUJxL1vn6zMOt//znni/J TanKfQuA8wGXcGkBAKpZJhqMkg+pKk7MGvJhgJ6nCpTZ+rMK6vZVZLUWc3QF Message-ID: <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:30:35 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrqwZ5s8tz4HsZ X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.475]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[93.72.151.96:received]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.984]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.043]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.208.181:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.208.181:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:30:40 -0000 On 15/09/2020 23:13, Eirik Øverby wrote: > On 9/15/20 9:50 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik Øverby wrote: >>> Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been able to wake from sleep. >> >> Is that the only thing that changed? >> Any port / package upgrades? > > There have been updates to packages, yes - but it didn't even occur to me that these could impact the resume process at such an early stage. Not sure which that would be; obviously the drm module has been rebuilt each time I upgraded, but I don't have any other kernel modules installed from packages. Yes, I specifically had drm modules in mind. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 07:05:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E124D3DA38E for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:05:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrrjH5ydKz4LQb for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:05:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id v123so7155618qkd.9 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 00:05:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2oQpOIRNwyeAL0VRjgl+JGVGGWfJAlpqbkb1jNYfdlo=; b=E6ugofhH2hM+ojt7KVOFp29HypY08wrjPhGmOmMvbs5Mme7iMgW+ngR26ptchTr6oG g4JZX5AhQNUg3ts0q3f30Sxqg6PSQfPkt5xkZzUuBI2dTL0rpChmXHFPJAKcelFnQUEy crW6dSCJ9OVL00hjbJGBiNJ/EuzIRGuDt+xgDVpjdxtTOnooRrQ2wAV5n84h5us17+zu Z4TDjjZjR9EJ9Y3xr3QTsnv3SA/lRZGN1hnooNRbSgq4/spdNXsKngBoGaWY53x//aIp i2mmJGWdKViiX1Atop9XsokG2U+h9QOVk8/5PBoSlRlcAbud4i8ugWnjXQmxXKaed0xZ 9Idg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53061jm8JRHA82gd8LAHE8zcd+VwjNq/MHzFK+sd3ZnNBWVCBvWL +ZGtaJF/wyyQ1uUzEKKpB1WJZQmHpBqQub5HqPMzCmrlTI8f7g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxpWgKI72MifXIxpxHQsukmZiVX2+0m1ftmTnAbuU596DTUfqUAdWKx3Um/SdAs1aNa1SPKdJIP/bGYejAxDfU= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ee06:: with SMTP id i6mr4594801qkg.380.1600239954602; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 00:05:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:05:43 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: Andriy Gapon Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=C3=98verby?= , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrrjH5ydKz4LQb X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.90 / 15.00]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.920]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.01)[0.014]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::736:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:05:56 -0000 On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 12:31 AM Andriy Gapon wrote: > On 15/09/2020 23:13, Eirik =C3=98verby wrote: > > On 9/15/20 9:50 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik =C3=98verby wrote: > >>> Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been > able to wake from sleep. > >> > >> Is that the only thing that changed? > >> Any port / package upgrades? > > > > There have been updates to packages, yes - but it didn't even occur to > me that these could impact the resume process at such an early stage. Not > sure which that would be; obviously the drm module has been rebuilt each > time I upgraded, but I don't have any other kernel modules installed from > packages. > > Yes, I specifically had drm modules in mind. > I too can report this for my Lenovo Yoga running code as of September 13, but with manu's latest drm... It used to work fine, but my last build on the system was from May. Most likely a new panic in that code path, but I've not chased down further... Warner From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 07:08:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8090D3DA51A for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:08:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lwhsu@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Brrlq1hzwz4Lcw; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:08:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lwhsu@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-yb1-f177.google.com (mail-yb1-f177.google.com [209.85.219.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: lwhsu/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16C8F17E2D; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:08:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lwhsu@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-yb1-f177.google.com with SMTP id k2so4634812ybp.7; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 00:08:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZVWIGeztyzK6Vb2ubplKsJGGxuSSbcpQewcIZtZnoyAqzS+ja S7ZvQcoRVDYF1LMGYOzNm8lJ+l7WaaYZ0RnOBIw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxlgig/iADcVVfmKRUDwBpoYzYsYMcorhC8IJujTmkOzQF0TXA5T98dengWQjyAoL3j/P48PKc9QiLdayHBrbk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d210:: with SMTP id j16mr33309498ybg.451.1600240086368; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 00:08:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> From: Li-Wen Hsu Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 15:07:54 +0800 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: Andriy Gapon Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=C3=98verby?= , freebsd-current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:08:07 -0000 On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:30 PM Andriy Gapon wrote: > > On 15/09/2020 23:13, Eirik =C3=98verby wrote: > > On 9/15/20 9:50 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik =C3=98verby wrote: > >>> Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been ab= le to wake from sleep. > >> > >> Is that the only thing that changed? > >> Any port / package upgrades? > > > > There have been updates to packages, yes - but it didn't even occur to = me that these could impact the resume process at such an early stage. Not s= ure which that would be; obviously the drm module has been rebuilt each tim= e I upgraded, but I don't have any other kernel modules installed from pack= ages. Which version of drm module are you using? > Yes, I specifically had drm modules in mind. I also use X1C 6th and it was working perfectly after updating BIOS to 1.30 (which I'm currently using) in Sep. 2018 [1]. I don't remember any suspend/resume failures. But since late 2019, it has exactly the same symptom as yours. Suspending is fine, but upon resuming, there is about a 50% probability that the power LDE continues pulsating with all other LDEs like FnLock and CapsLock are on like the machine is awake. I still doubt if this is related to drm. I have tried to suspend/resume without drm module loads, all successed, but the number of the experiments are too small (< 10) so I can't tell if this is the conclusion. Currently I'm on r363470 with drm-devel-kmod-5.3.g20200724. While reporting issue [2], I found that setting hw.i915kms.enable_psr=3D0 in /boot/loader.conf helps. Before that it has about a 30% probability of failing to resume (yes one of the few things getting better in 2020), after that, I still see some failures, but the failure rate reduces to about 5~10%. I haven't upgraded to newer kernel/world and drm-devel-kmod yet. [1] https://twitter.com/lwhsu/status/1039711710913945601 [2] https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod/issues/14 Best, Li-Wen From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 07:09:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84433DA369 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Brrnp5Tv5z4LmN; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (v-critter.freebsd.dk [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85A0C1AF20F; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 08G79hGe021378 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:43 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 08G79gcZ021377; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:42 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Warner Losh cc: Andriy Gapon , =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=C3=98verby?= , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <21375.1600240182.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:42 +0000 Message-ID: <21376.1600240182@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Brrnp5Tv5z4LmN X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.35 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[phk]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.028]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.964]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.36)[-0.357]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:09:51 -0000 -------- Warner Losh writes: > I too can report this for my Lenovo Yoga running code as of September 13, > but with manu's latest drm... It used to work fine, but my last build on > the system was from May. Most likely a new panic in that code path, but > I've not chased down further... My T480 runs: FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT #1 r364533M: Mon Aug 24 00:02:01 UTC 2020 and drm-devel-kmod-5.3.g20200724 And I have not seen any suspend/resume problems. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 08:05:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033CF3DC809 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:05:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakob@alvermark.net) Received: from out.alvermark.net (out.alvermark.net [185.34.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Brt1p6zrTz4QNJ for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:05:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jakob@alvermark.net) Received: from c-f649235c.06-431-73746f70.bbcust.telenor.se ([92.35.73.246] helo=mail.alvermark.net) by out.alvermark.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kISRC-000BkY-CM for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:05:10 +0200 Received: from office.as33885.net ([84.55.65.101] helo=[192.168.50.206]) by mail.alvermark.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kISRB-0007xr-PF for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:05:09 +0200 Subject: Re: Core Team Office Hours To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <33FC5165-BD63-4A77-98DB-E955C50D3254@freebsd.org> From: Jakob Alvermark Message-ID: <9f11d142-f076-0284-2dbf-e76d40e5b396@alvermark.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:05:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <33FC5165-BD63-4A77-98DB-E955C50D3254@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Brt1p6zrTz4QNJ X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.84 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[alvermark.net:s=x]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:185.34.136.138]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[alvermark.net: no valid DMARC record]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.024]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.972]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[alvermark.net:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.35)[-0.347]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34971, ipnet:185.34.136.0/24, country:IT]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:05:20 -0000 On 2020-09-15 16:12, FreeBSD Core Team Secretary wrote: > Based on the continuity of our last CORE Office Hours The FreeBSD CORE Team would like to invite you all to a virtual town hall meeting. The session is timed at 1800 UTC on 16th September, 2020. See https://wiki.freebsd.org/OfficeHours for details on how to join either a live stream to watch, or an interactive meeting to participate. A link to this agenda (and any updates) will be there as well. > > We’ll be discussing the following topics and taking general questions at the end. We’ll have a moderator who will help call on people in the meeting to ask questions (or to offer comments) as well as relay relevant questions from IRC. > > a. Git Transition -- To raise awareness, Ed Maste and Warner Losh will be giving a brief presentation about the state of the project’s planned transition to git. They can answer a few questions here, but are also planning an entire office hours on the git transition (tentatively scheduled in two weeks). > > b. Recruiting for project teams -- When a new core team takes over, it’s a good time to assess the needs of each of the teams that we have running different aspects of the project, such as administering our machines and helping keep FreeBSD secure. One common theme is the need for more help. We’ll discuss what teams there are, and make a recruiting pitch and answer any questions. > > c. Core TODO List publishing -- To continue the openness initiative, the core team will start publishing out TODO list. This will be in addition to the normal meeting minutes and other openness ideas. The new core team would love to hear from the community how to improve our communications. > > d. General Questions -- Time permitting, the core team can answer any other questions or concerns the community might have. > > Thanks! We look forward to meeting you. > > Regards, > Moin (bofh), with core-secretary@ hat on > The above says 16th, the wiki page says 23rd, which one is it? Thanks, Jakob From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 08:30:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F3B63DD49C for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:30:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-f180.google.com (mail-lj1-f180.google.com [209.85.208.180]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrtZd1rpKz4RbR for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:30:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-f180.google.com with SMTP id k25so5163106ljg.9 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:30:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FeBXWvBZv0ihsyhrUs3xuvCBkcEAexzGrsVsEozzrY4=; b=E4AZWEG4eU/ESlg+zef1QbSaH4zvClGinLRYlEBzZ0IYOHToGLc0D7gq9+G4lcwJZR i1/VFQ/arj/MuLwxRXJoQGBarVgz5xd0Y0VFrzeKvem5suUVmdXgr0M3PxrcRwhfkrA6 POFqHqnfQo10HGe/xqpdrTxz4BTMnQJQU6w0f/NN5y4eZdZhfVBaGE47kJqowapUF2uU obJZy97YdGfAaSYGpB7OocIJdjN3WBFdCts4BeZLTYCRVWld2IYzOgrvWnjHup7u0AWw JLRVVwff1t8Beij17gqj0MwXgpCaT7RS0Doxd54TVGdECh116BhWRRPAa0PpDTK8/iNi p3Vw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530OnkLShNxmuEm+STZ9QGsqFwtfi+dO/DtafNyDpGipPoa5v6pt nw8V/XtMIMPlcn2Rm8+Wxu1T7BxVfuE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzBCB41AFlWOKuaWh0VJ4vpWA1i/ykp90UMZsnV2YRhy8jlyHM1PUML2yhHSd8fjz7nqxC+Eg== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9c8d:: with SMTP id x13mr7613080lji.392.1600245015063; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (east.meadow.volia.net. [93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e9sm4428597lfn.237.2020.09.16.01.30.13 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 01:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: Warner Losh Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= , FreeBSD Current References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> From: Andriy Gapon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avg@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEX1iFDhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAiu8JG/oLFkVkOAJqJc7Dx5KI/Q6C3SBI20EQm+DXnAu0 HkFuZHJpeSBHYXBvbiA8YXZnQEZyZWVCU0Qub3JnPoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEyCHHZM09l0OE3Ir/ 1A1+Gq8+L1EFAl9YhQ4CGwMFCQeEzgAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ1A1+ Gq8+L1Fc0wD/ZjmhHfbCJywZU3aOxXIPjcz73FYEGMvqMCCLAWyLbSABALFL+1ZNrjV3BGjq 889cOYFuboA/Yn3eWezS+tfqYBsGuDgEX1iFDhIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQL6B20Xi600TrkpG P9fWjl7JtHNxqrHKhX6Kg7kgb4ILAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEEyCHHZM09l0OE3Ir/1A1+Gq8+ L1EFAl9YhQ4CGwwFCQeEzgAACgkQ1A1+Gq8+L1F3cgEAktp4h+IJUJxL1vn6zMOt//znni/J TanKfQuA8wGXcGkBAKpZJhqMkg+pKk7MGvJhgJ6nCpTZ+rMK6vZVZLUWc3QF Message-ID: <00497b79-e012-3e06-a6e4-42823ad68396@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:30:13 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrtZd1rpKz4RbR X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.42 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.42)[-1.421]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[93.72.151.96:received]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.961]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.034]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.208.180:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.208.180:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:30:18 -0000 On 16/09/2020 10:05, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 12:31 AM Andriy Gapon > wrote: > > On 15/09/2020 23:13, Eirik Øverby wrote: > > On 9/15/20 9:50 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik Øverby wrote: > >>> Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been able > to wake from sleep. > >> > >> Is that the only thing that changed? > >> Any port / package upgrades? > > > > There have been updates to packages, yes - but it didn't even occur to me > that these could impact the resume process at such an early stage. Not sure > which that would be; obviously the drm module has been rebuilt each time I > upgraded, but I don't have any other kernel modules installed from packages. > > Yes, I specifically had drm modules in mind. > > > I too can report this for my Lenovo Yoga running code as of September 13, but > with manu's latest drm...  It used to work fine, but my last build on the system > was from May. Most likely a new panic in that code path, but I've not chased > down further... One thing to check is to set debug.acpi.suspend_bounce=1 before suspending. This will run suspend (and then resume) methods of all drivers just like for a normal suspend, but will skip the actual ACPI suspend. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 08:51:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CC943DDED6 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:51:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: from mail.modirum.com (mail.modirum.com [185.42.170.44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Brv2x0nvGz4Sfm for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:51:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: by mail.modirum.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kIT9p-0004Fv-Tx for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:51:17 +0000 Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= Autocrypt: addr=ltning@anduin.net; keydata= mQGiBER75WwRBACP+1m6g/QUwH3CsJFpfQy50U3bRWaLrpCg+p4jzheLE9l5yfqT7bqPQt/w IXUFjpSEtEMqHxBoKXCLaVW56i74zobFPda3Msj7SwFvUI4oo4N1HVquS/PbjiMfn0sTb9wO YHNza2Q+qxhq9Vk6uyjCq3Q0iYouDz2nZNtnP7023wCgoWbGucQyzxm0i//GaICKf/2TFPUD /2PCaia5BXL9YKI/s8gVHKnUQuaHun6eDmhdiiZ4kdzCnwmBVKogChy0iglH8PmyNww0CW+1 VKTzTXVlqWH78QcNMUYW6wzmyBWK+1zgfasJdrcK+9/23//p4JVlJgnX9l6YixZr/hs9Oj3C RtFkuJ377sNP7XdwSyeITd26indwA/oCeBvVoHW34NGaT1FfI8tjHHhUsNpel3zDaiHEjCcT SffB/zQuLgGZU+bJ+nBIPqrzJ2LwVEJf1gmfysUUQN3ubP44m/dMUxDyHfR1XJfoc1j/H9YH 8H8L8I98l34TTBdVVJBPfsUhERDtfxumfsAoXe1OJC0MxLGVQYUnMZKRCLQhRWlyaWsgT2V2 ZXJieSA8bHRuaW5nQGFuZHVpbi5uZXQ+iGEEExECACECGwMGCwkIBwMCAxUCAwMWAgECHgEC F4AFAkeLFlECGQEACgkQDRlfnc8VQWeAhACfYOl14JOJtcmYehWVARL7pEl7CCQAn1V0AXc4 1mfCGrT4unheqtvuRi0suQQNBER75cUQEAClD2IXaoBElcXYBRBHduoWR+RH3kQT9oYH2F0l FuSpaWbhFxKS8WmIz2dwyDvvz+yBNIyftiIssE7i8CduWH9h/hcKAm1IhhEyb8otcOBnWz38 u6QRBVk5H7dGLelwm9X4HKR1/lWhetyB0FBDAvVKleaQZzPKnSL5FerU5nJy36IINWlJ27cN nZ0kbs2O6VMdqlAWob/R+Ygr1zYFxdV4Dy69rxDj0sezdtIYWkCbQg1EzQMnzOsEWcAnnQzX lVMCFCldWBaGEU/E5T82GG6LGUtUhj5R9eAh4cDXcaJkamkJIU1LvFyfQ9J8vmJvabsQbGBe dsI/2r/4cZfYYqWe2JOliRIBonPUNlydZuDVjPd2sL5se5wICZzlFajU2FdKGflCtiB92kSy BQ1Ng26RIx4ZcQE7hEZ2XO9p3fBwZ/tEYdeJ4CdXuZqctPLvVn0JpskO8G86aM+WgCAFUrGB QBL39ouP6wyAKaY/vRNyK0oKRDIu4J0n1KrJupspideY61yuFBK6mZUBctdEdivr5yZy6zak OfANvS9Q4ll+aaVy4dsZ5IVSTE5aFP5vQOBWwBN8g81NtrzwWP1jkNfYvo6jA/rIsvHA5GLf GFwDEaLOSoPYdFx5YG952zW9we/190HeO58zMCyKv57DuGdt1FlVCiH0eQN36PkwgzqR+wAD Bg/+Pr4yjhcJrG/umxFk0NIQ/clpiJ6OXsspiFH9PgJ0EQpYVW814lDEHEjPeIuw8QHGeumB mIMBDQ9Y01iyaxFFtD6JkvF5YFL+ajRmIkHlYutI08+IK9FutskCQDSxwbcV6frE5u1mFcZn LnajCR872F52qVKac+X+bVFScscw3iwBPvO6By2UIhfnqw7CyWEVic8C1uCMpPxJDzvU8mXO NGGm+5QrX8Mz/IrPqKeCRYCAi04nsYoWjdL6l6KCY/Y5i0r8rhOSpxQGQtPVYFxiz98snAV5 nsDY/8dMIq4oY0qrOR1soIMA15M/wVFIp32ybj7TsDqT5MboAdlPUeWO2r4DSWQq4+QufiKG uVEBxQLTBm+mqAgyeQFucBHVdy45nDqlo9mANu9USPaJZWpo+j+GW3am3tGawaUr5MTTZZIQ GY0XvlI5XrsnfWhzCZ/ntC6HoepixHlteuhlbsI/awemMDBpfIpcEymWxT7U1SKf3kflbqjQ jOJosdRATaKwQidw56pka0FtnFePlXk5UVaZUFA2REcr7jUZfqUJe+6/z3YOO+/tQuANa+Ba FvJGpyBkVnNwF80nz65eSQAkGxd9GwsTcmb8XBoEp8uDG/QzpYY71N0eb761ycdAZ6BwnPYd ih8pbczRcdIFopv03mqV/bUD+MOVLBLKG80UwXiISQQYEQIACQUCRHvlxQIbDAAKCRANGV+d zxVBZ+m0AJ9ejou5ID3iQhtKSecwm/Lh3776lACgm30erYDruurUMGCkKD2fW1JEvBw= Message-ID: <73d1a651-c3b1-5e6d-2af8-f5bc1049bca8@anduin.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:51:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Authenticated: Yes X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Brv2x0nvGz4Sfm X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.60 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.87)[-0.869]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[anduin.net]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.57)[-0.569]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[185.42.170.44:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.864]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62248, ipnet:185.42.170.0/24, country:NO]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 08:51:23 -0000 On 9/16/20 9:07 AM, Li-Wen Hsu wrote: > On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:30 PM Andriy Gapon wrote: >> >> On 15/09/2020 23:13, Eirik Øverby wrote: >>> On 9/15/20 9:50 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >>>> On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik Øverby wrote: >>>>> Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been able to wake from sleep. >>>> >>>> Is that the only thing that changed? >>>> Any port / package upgrades? >>> >>> There have been updates to packages, yes - but it didn't even occur to me that these could impact the resume process at such an early stage. Not sure which that would be; obviously the drm module has been rebuilt each time I upgraded, but I don't have any other kernel modules installed from packages. > > Which version of drm module are you using? 13.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT #7 r365688 drm-devel-kmod-5.4.62.g20200905_1 Built against the running kernel sources, of course. >> Yes, I specifically had drm modules in mind. > > I also use X1C 6th and it was working perfectly after updating BIOS to > 1.30 (which I'm currently using) in Sep. 2018 [1]. I don't remember > any suspend/resume failures. But since late 2019, it has exactly the > same symptom as yours. Suspending is fine, but upon resuming, there is > about a 50% probability that the power LDE continues pulsating with > all other LDEs like FnLock and CapsLock are on like the machine is > awake. Right-o. /Eirik From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 09:03:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941513DEA25 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:03:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dmarquess@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x529.google.com (mail-ed1-x529.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::529]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrvKB4x9gz4TNb for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:03:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dmarquess@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x529.google.com with SMTP id l17so5465300edq.12 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 02:03:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=d0Wg30Kkayg6NHkBcrj8eVER0RZWm1juVaLAe3XJg40=; b=QpWjVDEyxnbhEpDSELtc4pZ11QjlZrMxN92+V3JPEydtKcLqeoECoIg3NLqIo23mOy 0B5duHhmvVzA0+gBEHrrHiQYTZM3TDZr56K52yge/QR9wk9MN87fDP/MMe1oueWNFlc7 UoyfL3FFkkMTsU8FT2jzUX8euDl44u34dNZwoQUlhEpBQUK8evMy+fyZuQAmBcuI+KhU Sru6ixP6Q5qqe3cf+/7kij6T1fDkgtZA4JQFR3HwJXqzimIYDYxqbU+jo8vITuU/VKRw 2w9jcJPpB2vjDdhUNStbVeyrm+FmgItkR+gdbY5f4YLBlMoCvgW0d0ZV7ORk/htdN5LV pHbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532sSmimzEiVVX2ZMaytzUFsD2A8ig7yX/easB56L4kjh2ttZf6W fqLSHCdEc5bj2a41Chs0ERv7p9CdUCbX+o3lnIKwzNRW52Snbw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxW2RBr+j966WPr4Y948u6OKVPWNs6ve9fT1gQ7vU00WtdVtDJYIcQaOxQCURlkAydrLQiKZtGU8b9ke1pqe4s= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:45a:: with SMTP id p26mr28030680edw.8.1600247020843; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 02:03:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dustin Marquess Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 04:03:29 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: USB drives & OpenZFS To: FreeBSD CURRENT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrvKB4x9gz4TNb X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.31 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.942]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.983]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::529:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.39)[-0.387]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:03:43 -0000 There seems to be a problem with OpenZFS when shutting down a machine that boots from USB. My machine has two SD cards in an adapter board that plugs into an internal USB port on the motherboard. On these two cards I have the UEFI loader and a mirror zpool containing just the bare minimum to boot. Once the machine boots, it mounts the "big" SAS tank containing everything else. This worked perfectly and still works mostly after the OpenZFS merge. The only problem now is shutting down/rebooting. if I try to reboot, it hangs: Freed UMA keg (rtentry) was not empty (1 items). Lost 1 pages of memory. Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system process `vnlru' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system process `syncer' to stop... Syncing disks, vnodes remaining... 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufdaemon' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-0' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-1' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-2' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-3' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-4' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-5' to stop... done Waiting (max 60 seconds) for system thread `bufspacedaemon-6' to stop... done All buffers synced. Uptime: 1h52m34s uhub4: detached uhub2: detached uhub3: detached uhub1: detached uplcom0: detached umass0: detached Solaris: WARNING: Pool 'zroot' has encountered an uncorrectable I/O failure and has been suspended. I'm guessing it's because it appears that the USB subsystem shuts down before the pool itself? Once this happens I have to reset the machine via IPMI to get everything to boot back up. Has anybody else seen this? Thanks! -Dustin From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 09:06:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3715D3DEC2B for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:06:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BrvNM6v2Kz4Tpq for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:06:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [178.17.145.105]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D79CD260184; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> <73d1a651-c3b1-5e6d-2af8-f5bc1049bca8@anduin.net> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:05:45 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <73d1a651-c3b1-5e6d-2af8-f5bc1049bca8@anduin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BrvNM6v2Kz4Tpq X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.35 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.041]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.04)[-1.040]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.965]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:06:30 -0000 On 2020-09-16 10:51, Eirik Øverby wrote: > On 9/16/20 9:07 AM, Li-Wen Hsu wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:30 PM Andriy Gapon wrote: >>> >>> On 15/09/2020 23:13, Eirik Øverby wrote: >>>> On 9/15/20 9:50 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >>>>> On 15/09/2020 22:36, Eirik Øverby wrote: >>>>>> Now, since I updated from r365358 to r365688, I have not once been able to wake from sleep. >>>>> >>>>> Is that the only thing that changed? >>>>> Any port / package upgrades? >>>> >>>> There have been updates to packages, yes - but it didn't even occur to me that these could impact the resume process at such an early stage. Not sure which that would be; obviously the drm module has been rebuilt each time I upgraded, but I don't have any other kernel modules installed from packages. >> >> Which version of drm module are you using? > > 13.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT #7 r365688 > drm-devel-kmod-5.4.62.g20200905_1 > > Built against the running kernel sources, of course. > > >>> Yes, I specifically had drm modules in mind. >> >> I also use X1C 6th and it was working perfectly after updating BIOS to >> 1.30 (which I'm currently using) in Sep. 2018 [1]. I don't remember >> any suspend/resume failures. But since late 2019, it has exactly the >> same symptom as yours. Suspending is fine, but upon resuming, there is >> about a 50% probability that the power LDE continues pulsating with >> all other LDEs like FnLock and CapsLock are on like the machine is >> awake. > > Right-o. To make sure suspend/resume is not blocked by USB you can try setting: sysctl hw.usb.no_suspend_wait=1 --HPS From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 13:56:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9CEF3E6442 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:56:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: from mail.modirum.com (mail.modirum.com [185.42.170.44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bs1pW1YP7z3X4g for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:56:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ltning@anduin.net) Received: by mail.modirum.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kIXui-0006Ic-JU; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:56:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Wake from sleep kinda broken-ish? (ThinkPad Carbon X1 6th gen) To: Hans Petter Selasky , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <0b2f0f19-490b-4bb5-52b3-201e24ebeaee@anduin.net> <8f160583-47bb-3090-9713-ba0857be9b3e@FreeBSD.org> <39ceba1e-3e9e-a861-ab71-d376969990c4@FreeBSD.org> <73d1a651-c3b1-5e6d-2af8-f5bc1049bca8@anduin.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Eirik_=c3=98verby?= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 15:55:59 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Authenticated: Yes X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bs1pW1YP7z3X4g X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.09 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.036]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[anduin.net]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.23)[0.227]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[185.42.170.44:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.981]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62248, ipnet:185.42.170.0/24, country:NO]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:56:04 -0000 On 9/16/20 11:05 AM, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > To make sure suspend/resume is not blocked by USB you can try setting: > > sysctl hw.usb.no_suspend_wait=1 Thanks, that is useful - it's a separate problem with my USB DAC. Not sure if it's relevant to the resume issue, though? /Eirik From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 14:14:55 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E9553E752D for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:14:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sean@chittenden.org) Received: from mail-pg1-x536.google.com (mail-pg1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bs2DG3qGrz3YkH for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:14:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sean@chittenden.org) Received: by mail-pg1-x536.google.com with SMTP id l191so3986050pgd.5 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:14:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JyZvHs7bIgYLXJyYkb1BjPNM7ZidbYZ7FzYzOkZhJZo=; b=qneyrxo0T89hWgwQOrPOaA/D0HMkNE6YmKgRjkPYgsBSW+Z+0Qm0bVTaGfnCkgdaEJ GISnqBWIf1Ux/bSTjxS6Pg1gZ19YIK+4sS76XMJmNRtOLNi5ND9zEfcutCYGco3KdQfy AuslRAGri4+gclW3D2/xtGUOruV3NNmunrHN+fNxQhYzOIUyrFTy/FibARJOTDBiZZkH JZZdcAG1aLdWgz6wzJUS1pcSuRmJnYlN9g55VQtquK60AxdltKPN0hXLbXKfCTTVGcTj VmEcjrmShLWD6Iui8dsvIDRCUGZepI4HzNXs/NUb7yNCSL0dsvvFh8QDTe+RXSwrggR0 GmUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5332O07mVHtAlD+iJ7A5MnddhjVl7JPQIQJ+i5gzdpguQRsyse0x Jy9m3if4bpjCWY12goLfFLlArBTrLmoiL5ADtdtC3uCRBptNdQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxUn5pnyYFwMIbUTiRGsqCmaOqVf6GzimH3ToGc1rTB0saIYQCYwpEgHgAg5L7/qb4yfqi6/jZxZq4H7foqPHM= X-Received: by 2002:a63:471b:: with SMTP id u27mr18662844pga.139.1600265692807; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:14:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <33FC5165-BD63-4A77-98DB-E955C50D3254@freebsd.org> <9f11d142-f076-0284-2dbf-e76d40e5b396@alvermark.net> In-Reply-To: <9f11d142-f076-0284-2dbf-e76d40e5b396@alvermark.net> From: Sean Chittenden Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 07:14:36 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Core Team Office Hours To: Jakob Alvermark Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bs2DG3qGrz3YkH X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.16 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.968]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[chittenden.org:s=8eb15515]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[sean]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.989]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[chittenden.org:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[chittenden.org,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::536:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.20)[-0.202]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:14:55 -0000 The 23rd. Sorry for the confusion - there were some scheduling conflicts that caused this to be pushed back. Cheers. -sc On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:05 AM Jakob Alvermark wrote= : > On 2020-09-15 16:12, FreeBSD Core Team Secretary wrote: > > Based on the continuity of our last CORE Office Hours The FreeBSD CORE > Team would like to invite you all to a virtual town hall meeting. The > session is timed at 1800 UTC on 16th September, 2020. See > https://wiki.freebsd.org/OfficeHours for details on how to join either a > live stream to watch, or an interactive meeting to participate. A link to > this agenda (and any updates) will be there as well. > > > > We=E2=80=99ll be discussing the following topics and taking general que= stions at > the end. We=E2=80=99ll have a moderator who will help call on people in t= he meeting > to ask questions (or to offer comments) as well as relay relevant questio= ns > from IRC. > > > > a. Git Transition -- To raise awareness, Ed Maste and Warner Losh will > be giving a brief presentation about the state of the project=E2=80=99s p= lanned > transition to git. They can answer a few questions here, but are also > planning an entire office hours on the git transition (tentatively > scheduled in two weeks). > > > > b. Recruiting for project teams -- When a new core team takes over, it= =E2=80=99s > a good time to assess the needs of each of the teams that we have running > different aspects of the project, such as administering our machines and > helping keep FreeBSD secure. One common theme is the need for more help. > We=E2=80=99ll discuss what teams there are, and make a recruiting pitch a= nd answer > any questions. > > > > c. Core TODO List publishing -- To continue the openness initiative, th= e > core team will start publishing out TODO list. This will be in addition t= o > the normal meeting minutes and other openness ideas. The new core team > would love to hear from the community how to improve our communications. > > > > d. General Questions -- Time permitting, the core team can answer any > other questions or concerns the community might have. > > > > Thanks! We look forward to meeting you. > > > > Regards, > > Moin (bofh), with core-secretary@ hat on > > > The above says 16th, the wiki page says 23rd, which one is it? > > > Thanks, > > Jakob > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 16:21:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D821D3EA9C3 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com (mail-wr1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bs5295D2dz3yR2; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:21:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id j2so7546176wrx.7; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:21:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=jVmUbu4tJMa5yUJEXjOeRdQNt4oLKNjWjJ+Hh9aubOA=; b=FV/YzA/YFOeYI16Bdhp6AiLzOnVlYCti3I0EkJTy8dy+bqx3xYFoDmtd7CGiLQIwO+ SFQsGCHoza70dKVCuct3fRUcd6Qhp80oywT3Dl89Xncu5qMnOvPTcOjDhoMZJt4LhNEq 78G0X/REdVmrjg+MU9OCbPFMjIPqKgZxwGxTNMwhoXDfSLMk77yVlIoKgAU97vEC3jjJ WWtPSpPu834JIHDbdPGXAYWw+6sxx/cHlwWKaHib2Dt20nZH3Oo3W83M7nLrpwMXPQjG QhnXcOLjFpU3kjRLvYL5c//D/gtOLuC48ptPio2PRx8S41wnv0GO88MyY1QS8uYkwxqs dcHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530GEeLq9CID9kM9tH6EfcUmggN4zKJNqFndtOGpSnlHrTBgg0c2 NjbHYhwJCZTmx4jgw9xJjZIOAg8XHIXr+w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx2xG490/THz+UQPXzrG319JC1s3W9V5+Yf3EZ4H6Xew+eu+f89IM8eBJd8QflyiD9uP7uv8Q== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:61c7:: with SMTP id q7mr28042042wrv.343.1600273279436; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.22] (79-66-147-78.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com. [79.66.147.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k4sm34248807wrx.51.2020.09.16.09.21.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 09:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Panic with wifi + usb in latest FreeBSD-current To: Adrian Chadd , Warner Losh Cc: FreeBSD Current , Hans Petter Selasky , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" References: From: Graham Perrin Message-ID: <14e9323e-fd82-637d-7215-6a7f0a77c628@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:21:16 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bs5295D2dz3yR2 X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.88 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.330]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,bsdimp.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.995]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[79.66.147.78:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.06)[-1.055]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::42f:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:21:22 -0000 On 14/09/2020 06:29, Adrian Chadd wrote: > Yeah, this was also reported in #freebsd-wireless today. FWIW through bisection, recent r365488 is identified as panicking with vboxdrv From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 17:34:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649BC3EC429 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:34:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f169.google.com (mail-il1-f169.google.com [209.85.166.169]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bs6fJ1gQXz42r7 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:34:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f169.google.com with SMTP id t18so7289656ilp.5 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:34:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=atNYZ+oipGv3B3soKsqwIOzv4mQjaQWaeqffAA0DnTw=; b=N5o7hO2K9JwrHBLXGih3AaU8trZsRgIU5xl1wjElRrUKbrFYHFkI3KDo2nXphBg5js 3W1CvFadqLDtbybVwzwqbGSNs4EdOHV19YVy1QSKViuFonJsia8+BPTqj4bUqBArPUJY TuNkGO9QU5Je2lPto+FMNHTUBG6arhzVovDay2+yucz+Eo9MetlRE5B7w6ouJp2fYIJ3 EL+C0MZArvdtXe82FrDTFeULlSkyw6cZrd/f6si08m9vLH/i9u/K9uwCDEwiles5bMTG ZS2cyKPbR9tX6sqS8p0MLZUK4WoJT7r4icjpWoUFhNT3jyRAVwZZGImkim3sOUOkHHn1 I5jA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533UrzWyVivmrWFvepFd15hRDWgMSAkyi0JmNQN7c3sdMNcdCyYC x+2JP+CPsnjqwlXoL63XxayOOyUBlzimn99VaeX219yfn/g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyIVSsAYmNcodRIT/gFVOw8m3gv5sY1aRWvnBcVFZs9svKsU91AYu665jhMulw8YrlRkJVkfnODTKYp6t1X+7c= X-Received: by 2002:a92:ba0a:: with SMTP id o10mr3280419ili.100.1600277654067; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:34:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ed Maste Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:34:02 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bs6fJ1gQXz42r7 X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.86 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.12)[-0.116]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[carpeddiem]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.91)[-0.910]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.83)[-0.831]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.166.169:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.166.169:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:34:17 -0000 FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base system one we can create a port for it first, as well. Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email here. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 17:38:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D013EC795 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:38:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82f.google.com (mail-qt1-x82f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bs6l25CkVz43Bm for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:38:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82f.google.com with SMTP id g3so6756932qtq.10 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:38:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8aeNSxREL5gDHXOkuFwasGgXq7ri1sE5QClR/VlDQQE=; b=EzJ6nW+FoIGNPIo8oBY0T/fX+JxJbmGZ2Z9wgZabNbhwhTW9XpDQylHwiaSdf8J+Ru UtM75rOCrMg8gPPIk0aPxzM1hdLGkxXGwURYOZY/GuiVqlyFqb3jD53SbA67NcHT/uDf xsFWqIyp+6rhXE3KsCiOKYaLS88Y/IAd0RUaB4HXHdul+jkjP5XoGwc6Ept/Zr1BnHLy WybRM1UWSXE8mJK7yc/ZnrhFzO3rG0vUZhg/MMw4RxcEuAw1Fb6mVtzTgwxRM7x80uH/ LL3BRkHY7q9aZ25uwtPohPzVBVdv23mADdrezUViJnhWp6d5v+6+Z6cyR9mecEo9o3Zr nfNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531sFp3OvGna3WH9RnM22rhX11uqbBOxgMBWaCBkjkm4ftTl47yP 25oe3ITJpd/YgDJBB07n8Xb5ZnKe1jOcd/FYvUZODQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyQmcxZZA3qGGsJQON6aV7iFCcMYKVU4vehG4iweJv/vNyq1lmd/C7akjW5EfAi3ChSnc1IQ07xonarYYIKUjA= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:319d:: with SMTP id h29mr22923246qte.32.1600277901482; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:38:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 11:38:10 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Ed Maste Cc: FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bs6l25CkVz43Bm X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.51 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.912]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.006]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.592]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:38:24 -0000 On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:34 AM Ed Maste wrote: > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. > > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. > > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email > here. > While I may quibble over the 'legacy' tag to FTP, I do agree that ftpd isn't important enough to risk the security exposure for it (even if we don't enable it by default). There are several ftpd ports one could use. I know I'll be installing it on my systems here, but I have some special needs due to a video camera that uploads snapshots via ftp (and yes, I know that's not super secure which is why it's on it's own VLAN, jail insulated, etc). Warner From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 18:07:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3347A3ED0B1 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:07:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (bizet.nethelp.no [IPv6:2001:8c0:9e04:500::1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Bs7Ns2j2nz44Rt; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:07:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: from localhost (bizet.nethelp.no [IPv6:2001:8c0:9e04:500::1]) by bizet.nethelp.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF197E6047; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:07:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:07:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20200916.200732.288885950.sthaug@nethelp.no> To: emaste@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 26 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bs7Ns2j2nz44Rt X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.23 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.030]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nethelp.no]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.012]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.13)[-0.128]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2116, ipnet:2001:8c0::/29, country:NO]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:07:43 -0000 > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. > > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. > > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email here. Could we, at the same time, improve the documentation for sftp? I had to move an FTP server (with one chrooted user) from FTP to sftp today. I did: 1. Add sftp user to /etc/passwd, with /usr/sbin/nologin as the shell. 2. Patch sshd config as follows: --- etc/ssh/sshd_config.orig 2018-06-16 22:04:20.868762000 +0200 +++ etc/ssh/sshd_config 2020-09-16 10:10:53.133211000 +0200 @@ -112,7 +112,7 @@ #Banner none # override default of no subsystems -Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server +Subsystem sftp internal-sftp -l INFO # Example of overriding settings on a per-user basis #Match User anoncvs @@ -120,3 +120,8 @@ # AllowTcpForwarding no # PermitTTY no # ForceCommand cvs server +Match User sftp +ChrootDirectory /usr/local/ftp/sftp +ForceCommand internal-sftp -l INFO +X11Forwarding no +AllowTcpForwarding no 3. Ensure all levels of /usr/local/ftp/sftp are owned by root. 4. Create /usr/local/ftp/sftp/dev and add the following line to /etc/rc.conf: syslogd_flags="-s -l /usr/local/ftp/sftp/dev/log" Btw, I could not get /usr/libexec/sftp-server to work. Cryptic error message: "Received message too long 1416128883". Googling that one eventually led me to the internal-sftp subsystem and the rest of the sshd_config changes. The sshd_config man page is good, but I couldn't find anything about arguments (e.g. -l) for internal-sftp. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 18:30:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64EB73ED9AA for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:30:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: from mail.evolve.de (mail.evolve.de [213.239.217.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.evolve.de", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bs7vD1DVvz45SJ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:30:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 7fc33969; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 54f1f4f8 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305:256:NO); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:30:18 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? From: Michael Gmelin In-Reply-To: <20200916.200732.288885950.sthaug@nethelp.no> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:30:16 +0200 Cc: emaste@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-Id: <5813CAD8-A5A6-4116-968D-D49B0D775ADA@grem.de> References: <20200916.200732.288885950.sthaug@nethelp.no> To: sthaug@nethelp.no X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17H35) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bs7vD1DVvz45SJ X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.31 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[grem.de:s=20180501]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:213.239.217.29/32]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grem.de]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.69)[0.691]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.025]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[grem.de:+]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.975]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:213.239.192.0/18, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 18:30:33 -0000 > On 16. Sep 2020, at 20:08, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >> FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to >> remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent >> security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. >>=20 >> I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in >> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a >> number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base >> system one we can create a port for it first, as well. >>=20 >> Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email= here. >=20 > Could we, at the same time, improve the documentation for sftp? I had > to move an FTP server (with one chrooted user) from FTP to sftp today. > I did: >=20 > 1. Add sftp user to /etc/passwd, with /usr/sbin/nologin as the shell. > 2. Patch sshd config as follows: >=20 > --- etc/ssh/sshd_config.orig 2018-06-16 22:04:20.868762000 +0200 > +++ etc/ssh/sshd_config 2020-09-16 10:10:53.133211000 +0200 > @@ -112,7 +112,7 @@ > #Banner none >=20 > # override default of no subsystems > -Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server > +Subsystem sftp internal-sftp -l INFO >=20 > # Example of overriding settings on a per-user basis > #Match User anoncvs > @@ -120,3 +120,8 @@ > # AllowTcpForwarding no > # PermitTTY no > # ForceCommand cvs server > +Match User sftp > +ChrootDirectory /usr/local/ftp/sftp > +ForceCommand internal-sftp -l INFO > +X11Forwarding no > +AllowTcpForwarding no >=20 > 3. Ensure all levels of /usr/local/ftp/sftp are owned by root. > 4. Create /usr/local/ftp/sftp/dev and add the following line to > /etc/rc.conf: >=20 > syslogd_flags=3D"-s -l /usr/local/ftp/sftp/dev/log" >=20 > Btw, I could not get /usr/libexec/sftp-server to work. Cryptic error > message: "Received message too long 1416128883". Googling that one > eventually led me to the internal-sftp subsystem and the rest of the > sshd_config changes. The sshd_config man page is good, but I couldn't > find anything about arguments (e.g. -l) for internal-sftp. In case it helps, I documented an example sftp setup as part of the paperles= s port's man page last year: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/deskutils/py-paperless/files/paperless= .7.in?revision=3D521891&view=3Dco -m >=20 > Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 20:45:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F240D3F0C37 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:45:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from pyroxene2a.sentex.ca (pyroxene19.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:3::19]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "pyroxene.sentex.ca", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsBtZ5TV5z4FTS; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:45:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:4:3592:20eb:237a:8e2a] ([IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:4:3592:20eb:237a:8e2a]) by pyroxene2a.sentex.ca (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 08GKj9Fc056697 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:45:09 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: sthaug@nethelp.no, emaste@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20200916.200732.288885950.sthaug@nethelp.no> From: mike tancsa Autocrypt: addr=mike@sentex.net; keydata= mQENBFywzOMBCACoNFpwi5MeyEREiCeHtbm6pZJI/HnO+wXdCAWtZkS49weOoVyUj5BEXRZP xflV2ib2hflX4nXqhenaNiia4iaZ9ft3I1ebd7GEbGnsWCvAnob5MvDZyStDAuRxPJK1ya/s +6rOvr+eQiXYNVvfBhrCfrtR/esSkitBGxhUkBjOti8QwzD71JVF5YaOjBAs7jZUKyLGj0kW yDg4jUndudWU7G2yc9GwpHJ9aRSUN8e/mWdIogK0v+QBHfv/dsI6zVB7YuxCC9Fx8WPwfhDH VZC4kdYCQWKXrm7yb4TiVdBh5kgvlO9q3js1yYdfR1x8mjK2bH2RSv4bV3zkNmsDCIxjABEB AAG0HW1pa2UgdGFuY3NhIDxtaWtlQHNlbnRleC5uZXQ+iQFUBBMBCAA+FiEEmuvCXT0aY6hs 4SbWeVOEFl5WrMgFAlywzOYCGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ eVOEFl5WrMhnPAf7Bf+ola0V9t4i8rwCMGvzkssGaxY/5zNSZO9BgSgfN0WzgmBEOy/3R4km Yn5KH94NltJYAAE5hqkFmAwK6psOqAR9cxHrRfU+gV2KO8pCDc6K/htkQcd/mclJYpCHp6Eq EVJOiAxcNaYuHZkeMdXDuvvI5Rk82VHk84BGgxIqIrhLlkguoPbXOOa+8c/Mpb1sRAGZEOuX EzKNC49+GS9gKW6ISbanyPsGEcFyP7GKMzcHBPf3cPrewZQZ6gBoNscasL6IJeAQDqzQAxbU GjO0qBSMRgnLXK7+DJlxrYdHGXqNbV6AYsmHJ6c2WWWiuRviFBqXinlgJ2FnYebZPAfWiQ== Message-ID: <6e1ca134-1fc7-d561-365a-b9349e55cc80@sentex.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:45:10 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200916.200732.288885950.sthaug@nethelp.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsBtZ5TV5z4FTS X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.34 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[mike]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f3e0::/32]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HFILTER_HELO_IP_A(1.00)[pyroxene2a.sentex.ca]; HFILTER_HELO_NORES_A_OR_MX(0.30)[pyroxene2a.sentex.ca]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.039]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.334]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sentex.net]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.965]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11647, ipnet:2607:f3e0::/32, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:45:12 -0000 On 9/16/2020 2:07 PM, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: > # override default of no subsystems > -Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server > +Subsystem sftp internal-sftp -l INFO Hi, What is the difference between these two ?  Is it not all OpenSSH ?     ---Mike From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 20:51:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF5AB3F0EB8 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:51:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from allanjude@freebsd.org) Received: from tor1-11.mx.scaleengine.net (tor1-11.mx.scaleengine.net [IPv6:2001:470:1:474::25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsC1Y0Jb5z4GPJ for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:51:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from allanjude@freebsd.org) Received: from [10.1.1.2] (Seawolf.HML3.ScaleEngine.net [209.51.186.28]) (Authenticated sender: allanjude.freebsd@scaleengine.com) by tor1-11.mx.scaleengine.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A2C2DCCF for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:51:12 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 tor1-11.mx.scaleengine.net 1A2C2DCCF To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: From: Allan Jude Autocrypt: addr=allanjude@freebsd.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFVwZcYBEADwrZDH0xe0ZVjc9ORCc6PcBLwS/RTXA6NkvpD6ea02pZ8lPOVgteuuugFc D34LdDbiWr+479vfrKBh+Y38GL0oZ0/13j10tIlDMHSa5BU0y6ACtnhupFvVlQ57+XaJAb/q 7qkfSiuxVwQ3FY3PL3cl1RrIP5eGHLA9hu4eVbu+FOX/q/XVKz49HaeIaxzo2Q54572VzIo6 C28McX9m65UL5fXMUGJDDLCItLmehZlHsQQ+uBxvODLFpVV2lUgDR/0rDa0B9zHZX8jY8qQ7 ZdCSy7CwClXI054CkXZCaBzgxYh/CotdI8ezmaw7NLs5vWNTxaDEFXaFMQtMVhvqQBpHkfOD 7rjjOmFw00nJL4FuPE5Yut0CPyx8vLjVmNJSt/Y8WxxmhutsqJYFgYfWl/vaWkrFLur/Zcmz IklwLw35HLsCZytCN5A3rGKdRbQjD6QPXOTJu0JPrJF6t2xFkWAT7oxnSV0ELhl2g+JfMMz2 Z1PDmS3NRnyEdqEm7NoRGXJJ7bgxDbN+9SXTyOletqGNXj/bSrBvhvZ0RQrzdHAPwQUfVSU2 qBhQEi2apSZstgVNMan0GUPqCdbE2zpysg+zT7Yhvf9EUQbzPL4LpdK1llT9fZbrdMzEXvEF oSvwJFdV3sqKmZc7b+E3PuxK6GTsKqaukd/3Cj8aLHG1T1im1QARAQABzSJBbGxhbiBKdWRl IDxhbGxhbmp1ZGVAZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc+wsF/BBMBAgApBQJVcGXGAhsjBQkSzAMABwsJCAcD AgEGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQGZU1PhKYC34Muw/+JOKpSfhhysWFYiRXynGRDe07 Z6pVsn7DzrPUMRNZfHu8Uujmmy3p2nx9FelIY9yjd2UKHhug+whM54MiIFs90eCRVa4XEsPR 4FFAm0DAWrrb7qhZFcE/GhHdRWpZ341WAElWf6Puj2devtRjfYbikvj5+1V1QmDbju7cEw5D mEET44pTuD2VMRJpu2yZZzkM0i+wKFuPxlhqreufA1VNkZXI/rIfkYWK+nkXd9Efw3YdCyCQ zUgTUCb88ttSqcyhik/li1CDbXBpkzDCKI6I/8fAb7jjOC9LAtrZJrdgONywcVFoyK9ZN7EN AVA+xvYCmuYhR/3zHWH1g4hAm1v1+gIsufhajhfo8/wY1SetlzPaYkSkVQLqD8T6zZyhf+AN bC7ci44UsiKGAplB3phAXrtSPUEqM86kbnHg3fSx37kWKUiYNOnx4AC2VXvEiKsOBlpyt3dw WQbOtOYM+vkfbBwDtoGOOPYAKxc4LOIt9r+J8aD+gTooi9Eo5tvphATf9WkCpl9+aaGbSixB tUpvQMRnSMqTqq4Z7DeiG6VMRQIjsXDSLJEUqcfhnLFo0Ko/RiaHd5xyAQ4DhQ9QpkyQjjNf /3f/dYG7JAtoD30txaQ5V8uHrz210/77DRRX+HJjEj6xCxWUGvQgvEZf5XXyxeePvqZ+zQyT DX61bYw6w6bOwU0EVXBlxgEQAMy7YVnCCLN4oAOBVLZ5nUbVPvpUhsdA94/0/P+uqCIh28Cz ar56OCX0X19N/nAWecxL4H32zFbIRyDB2V/MEh4p9Qvyu/j4i1r3Ex5GhOT2hnit43Ng46z5 29Es4TijrHJP4/l/rB2VOqMKBS7Cq8zk1cWqaI9XZ59imxDNjtLLPPM+zQ1yE3OAMb475QwN UgWxTMw8rkA7CEaqeIn4sqpTSD5C7kT1Bh26+rbgJDZ77D6Uv1LaCZZOaW52okW3bFbdozV8 yM2u+xz2Qs8bHz67p+s+BlygryiOyYytpkiK6Iy4N7FTolyj5EIwCuqzfk0SaRHeOKX2ZRjC qatkgoD/t13PNT38V9tw3qZVOJDS0W6WM8VSg+F+bkM9LgJ8CmKV+Hj0k3pfGfYPOZJ/v18i +SmZmL/Uw2RghnwDWGAsPCKu4uZR777iw7n9Io6Vfxndw2dcS0e9klvFYoaGS6H2F13Asygr WBzFNGFQscN4mUW+ZYBzpTOcHkdT7w8WS55BmXYLna+dYer9/HaAuUrONjujukN4SPS1fMJ2 /CS/idAUKyyVVX5vozoNK2JVC1h1zUAVsdnmhEzNPsvBoqcVNfyqBFROEVLIPwq+lQMGNVjH ekLTKRWf59MEhUC2ztjSKkGmwdg73d6xSXMuq45EgIJV2wPvOgWQonoHH/kxABEBAAHCwWUE GAECAA8FAlVwZcYCGwwFCRLMAwAACgkQGZU1PhKYC34w5A//YViBtZyDV5O+SJT9FFO3lb9x Zdxf0trA3ooCt7gdBkdnBM6T5EmjgVZ3KYYyFfwXZVkteuCCycMF/zVw5eE9FL1+zz9gg663 nY9q2F77TZTKXVWOLlOV2bY+xaK94U4ytogOGhh9b4UnQ/Ct3+6aviCF78Go608BXbmF/GVT 7uhddemk7ItxM1gE5Hscx3saxGKlayaOsdPKeGTVJCDEtHDuOc7/+jGh5Zxpk/Hpi+DUt1ot 8e6hPYLIQa4uVx4f1xxxV858PQ7QysSLr9pTV7FAQ18JclCaMc7JWIa3homZQL/MNKOfST0S 2e+msuRwQo7AnnfFKBUtb02KwpA4GhWryhkjUh/kbVc1wmGxaU3DgXYQ5GV5+Zf4kk/wqr/7 KG0dkTz6NLCVLyDlmAzuFhf66DJ3zzz4yIo3pbDYi3HB/BwJXVSKB3Ko0oUo+6/qMrOIS02L s++QE/z7K12CCcs7WwOjfCYHK7VtE0Sr/PfybBdTbuDncOuAyAIeIKxdI2nmQHzl035hhvQX s4CSghsP319jAOQiIolCeSbTMD4QWMK8RL/Pe1FI1jC3Nw9s+jq8Dudtbcj2UwAP/STUEbJ9 5rznzuuhPjE0e++EU/RpWmcaIMK/z1zZDMN+ce2v1qzgV936ZhJ3iaVzyqbEE81gDxg3P+IM kiYh4ZtPB4Q= Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <1cc396b9-a4be-9a38-8dde-deaaa3c075cc@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 16:51:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0EY4jvGxUUhIi5W87Lu9gBXkup5SPSPXi" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsC1Y0Jb5z4GPJ X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:51:13 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0EY4jvGxUUhIi5W87Lu9gBXkup5SPSPXi Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="nUXk1Sqxd1vp4kjJDFvQPgmrT3yBMDys3"; protected-headers="v1" From: Allan Jude To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1cc396b9-a4be-9a38-8dde-deaaa3c075cc@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? References: In-Reply-To: --nUXk1Sqxd1vp4kjJDFvQPgmrT3yBMDys3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2020-09-16 13:34, Ed Maste wrote: > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. >=20 > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. >=20 > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in ema= il here. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" >=20 Is the version we have in base unique? That is to say, does it need to be preserved somehow. I know it is based on on the original 4.2BSD ftpd, but did we pull in code from anywhere else at some point? Or maybe a better question is: Which ftpd is the most similar, and would allow people to migrate most easily (tnftpd from netbsd?) --=20 Allan Jude --nUXk1Sqxd1vp4kjJDFvQPgmrT3yBMDys3-- --0EY4jvGxUUhIi5W87Lu9gBXkup5SPSPXi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJfYnq/AAoJEBmVNT4SmAt+W18QAIIMleL8sVIbphHzFzLuuXx1 SoQOWjesI/2Zq4JnQRbI/7Uu75+9En0wdYts6qsvMoTjd641xB9BwacP1ApafqVC TTpMx6Inlv+aQC5rw4v0J6yyrO3UWI4HOQFbjiSpPZpBHLUSpeyvV2kJ8r1BAuWn 4Qp5Bn8qhZXkU07uWM1JGZ94JSwxG1ZasQZZRROa0zwjKzOonGOvXJxCGkmUGRt3 BC2Ql6PwhptPnnRlA0Ck2cxLsgJJ/3uLwAC5gGgaLgHJx2vWTTLk7PLmSNan/C81 4BEyBCXRxKww7VtwvAzBhaxCW3tqRabemTZqGxo2t1J7k7mzxfDxyk4qP+KixoF/ SqhphDbxOuKpyxEpBocZCnHo4yaJb1E39Lb6Q4oxx6gsoCw4y2dqW/RdIkSPbjkG CCZrQzggzbl9Z8mVxqMCTb8gDwHlutpMd4vJB+iVDl6ZgSqvQWMO6D/Cq617VTdt NKbat92aKxKMYJ22OKQij25SkxN/1jJ4t1O1LGflxm0qG19tt4GTWhvTlhnP6fFZ f2rd1juaaqApNLOOILKFcqKU6ZmamKPMIkYqPqWjALZtr55vvaFhEjP+reVUDzdm QlvwmSrgo9/jhr8NYcvvw0NjJaexGXp3heuiDTkbRutd+NI/IGrTP28d3kORCHtg UFgfaV5Rtiwa/zws9KFj =Nu+Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0EY4jvGxUUhIi5W87Lu9gBXkup5SPSPXi-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 20:53:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F28803F1416 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:53:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: from mail.evolve.de (mail.evolve.de [213.239.217.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.evolve.de", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsC401lClz4Gnn; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:53:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 6d6b2d4c; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:53:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 1fafb6cc (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305:256:NO); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:53:15 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? From: Michael Gmelin In-Reply-To: <6e1ca134-1fc7-d561-365a-b9349e55cc80@sentex.net> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:53:14 +0200 Cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, emaste@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-Id: <4D9317A6-4787-4419-BBB9-1BCA1E30C523@grem.de> References: <6e1ca134-1fc7-d561-365a-b9349e55cc80@sentex.net> To: mike tancsa X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17H35) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsC401lClz4Gnn X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.57 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[grem.de:s=20180501]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:213.239.217.29/32]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grem.de]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.017]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[grem.de:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.585]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.972]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:213.239.192.0/18, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:53:22 -0000 > On 16. Sep 2020, at 22:45, mike tancsa wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn 9/16/2020 2:07 PM, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >> # override default of no subsystems >> -Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server >> +Subsystem sftp internal-sftp -l INFO >=20 > Hi, >=20 > What is the difference between these two ? Is it not all OpenSSH ? Yes, but one is an external binary, while internal doesn=E2=80=99t rely on t= hat. Which means that your chroot setup won=E2=80=99t require bin and lib di= rs. For most scenarios, internal is the way to go. The man page has more details. -m > ---Mike >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 20:59:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F5C3F164B for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:59:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: from mail.evolve.de (mail.evolve.de [213.239.217.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.evolve.de", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsCCJ4n2Gz4HFP; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:59:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@grem.de) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1428b562; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:59:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e59059ed (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305:256:NO); Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:59:38 +0000 (UTC) Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? From: Michael Gmelin In-Reply-To: <4D9317A6-4787-4419-BBB9-1BCA1E30C523@grem.de> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:59:37 +0200 Cc: sthaug@nethelp.no, emaste@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-Id: <8319E4EF-3C9E-4E4B-93A6-5A7DE823A59E@grem.de> References: <4D9317A6-4787-4419-BBB9-1BCA1E30C523@grem.de> To: mike tancsa X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17H35) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsCCJ4n2Gz4HFP X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.66 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[grem.de:s=20180501]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:213.239.217.29/32]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grem.de]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.018]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[grem.de:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.67)[-0.675]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.967]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:213.239.192.0/18, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 20:59:42 -0000 > On 16. Sep 2020, at 22:53, Michael Gmelin wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >=20 >>> On 16. Sep 2020, at 22:45, mike tancsa wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFOn 9/16/2020 2:07 PM, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >>> # override default of no subsystems >>> -Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server >>> +Subsystem sftp internal-sftp -l INFO >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> What is the difference between these two ? Is it not all OpenSSH ? >=20 > Yes, but one is an external binary, while internal doesn=E2=80=99t rely on= that. Which means that your chroot setup won=E2=80=99t require bin and lib d= irs. For most scenarios, internal is the way to go. >=20 > The man page has more details. >=20 > -m p.s. this is a good write-up: https://serverfault.com/questions/660160/openssh-difference-between-internal= -sftp-and-sftp-server >=20 >=20 >> ---Mike >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " >=20 From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Wed Sep 16 21:39:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85323F235C for ; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 21:39:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-f171.google.com (mail-lj1-f171.google.com [209.85.208.171]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsD5R2jG9z4Kds; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 21:39:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-f171.google.com with SMTP id u4so163028ljd.10; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:39:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1kiV3DQr2OrTetIsfV5eFGvjSJ0OVRWv4IwJiIWxIO0=; b=StCJXZj8anr8NKAlBnyBZnDQAO1CI/To01N4Lvt3Dhf22VduspgH4M7qcP1cZSUNDD LbDqk/zsQlpOvymY8wFJTHSLypKV/Fb8RVp2vApMfpw7cTqWTcp8YhT/CAcAQuan+NIg If1z2LFwOvpvPvN8r8mj2KlDpWKVr/l6tLBSKxS/AntQ3JNmGCBgplZ+QMXPCaF77MRi n9hAd3cybUR+X4UAnME7lzN7MgYDzg3H9q+PMAoqbkBIsTDDPwCMBTeMgDw05G19gxkK oPGMNG+bI7uK+lvfXxIneB1Pd/EMboQ5KEg8FDzrXQ3H5PKW4WkTcK5GwOLQhtksfRDb oXyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530w9oXfyLh4loJVZF/3RvnrqR3WRaGODYjOy6GeP1NIKOYwX5cx cMO/eFNbIF/RgSK87wT7X8LQeG7QBIunE0YxPWkxPFN1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzDKW35BIqNdnKRwtQYEyJQW9YEGy80pwHiWfJzk8FZFI+/XVY1maQUnQHxto+9Yk0nUSf+HJq73Y7jolfADAA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9919:: with SMTP id v25mr9753265lji.167.1600292376339; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1cc396b9-a4be-9a38-8dde-deaaa3c075cc@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <1cc396b9-a4be-9a38-8dde-deaaa3c075cc@freebsd.org> From: Ed Maste Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 17:39:23 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Allan Jude Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsD5R2jG9z4Kds X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.68 / 15.00]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[carpeddiem]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.11)[0.115]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.94)[-0.939]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.856]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.208.171:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.208.171:from]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 21:39:40 -0000 On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 16:51, Allan Jude wrote: > > Is the [ftpd] version we have in base unique? That is to say, does it need > to be preserved somehow. I'm not sure if we have functionality that doesn't exist elsewhere, although we definitely have some changes that do not exist in other BSDs. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 02:16:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596D63F7EE5 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:16:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-QB1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr660048.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.66.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsLF26wnKz4ZdT for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nvU2ERjbVeUkl6Q1aufpcaXA70EIEnYKIoej2Uk8K8PgMQWyGsOuLXLTYmCNH/ZdgKhym/SufMb9t2SQEhPzkf2lK3wH4DV+Rfo35m9dfuIb2ZvM8rj+oiMOuLViiMK6CCPSLpDPaWnKphcEnQXItAuIAH9QEO0Fm4rqU2nGfbmUyzBNRPrl4S0na7Yz5y+8DO9GqmKn/Tr/ISyvjREyQjI0RRtSYsAj5rZFS9ozESukV+xvVRVNiJzwhqzjQ4tjtMyXQPQ3D9wOS31aFdxk3Ru7U+DPTZZYLcLieAkQyb/5U/kj2FzBT+vhtxamNC1Myh6y8sTwhWpIglXntTVSkw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NsHNrkzS0VqxM20Eb4TArodjy/iWl2910hevJN2I5KA=; b=HD7kVgEOeW6lufuade/RVlyDLa7SGnf3QmraQBzvwcsyYjkJPidN88OjO7x48Z7dOAVrT1e9EbaRGXH2G30lH105+lKA8pyQgR5SJDFBW5f+1LQHt5G9rFVCT7+Seb71GZ7emHpn4yn4QeNPzZbyutf1RN8b0bfJqAGqdgZgyjKj8s+kqs6FKVTcNQHUepZGZyYwyKuO/rhCsMKYCLqyOSyvg97MQm69P/ghXPqwGrE58Iu8wwKTWbxbh+p58O8l0D2oRlnwiYsSL3DMBSe13C7JD0IhoAbOah/WHD1e/JIY71wGcGq0bY+3LlW1WKIlhnmf/oe7Tld9fc6hAkG7Yw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uoguelph.ca; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uoguelph.ca; dkim=pass header.d=uoguelph.ca; arc=none Received: from YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:b01:24::27) by YTBPR01MB2701.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:b01:22::33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3391.14; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:16:36 +0000 Received: from YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::687f:d85a:a0a3:bd20]) by YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::687f:d85a:a0a3:bd20%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3391.014; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:16:36 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: John-Mark Gurney CC: "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: rfc: should extant TLS connections be closed when a CRL is updated? Thread-Topic: rfc: should extant TLS connections be closed when a CRL is updated? 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TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.107.0.0/16]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[uoguelph.ca:dkim]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[uoguelph.ca:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.107.66.48:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.48)[-1.484]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[uoguelph.ca,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.104.0.0/14, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.107.66.48:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:16:40 -0000 John-Mark Gurney wrote:=0A= >Rick Macklem wrote this message on Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 01:20 +0000:=0A= >> The server side NFS over TLS daemon (rpc.tlsservd) can reload an updated= =0A= >> CRL (Certificate Revocation List) when a SIGHUP is posted to it.=0A= >> However, it does not SSL_shutdown()/close() extant TCP connections using= TLS.=0A= >> (Those would only be closed if the daemon is restarted.)=0A= >>=0A= >> I am now thinking that, maybe, an SSL_shutdown()/close() should be done = on=0A= >> all extant TCP connections using NFS over TLS when an updated CRL is loa= ded,=0A= >> since a connection might have used a revoked certificate for its handsha= ke.=0A= >>=0A= >> What do others think?=0A= >=0A= >IMO, this should scan the existing connections, and only shut them=0A= >down if they are using a revoked Cert. This is the correct way to=0A= >do things.=0A= >=0A= >I do realize that this is likely not possible, and in reality, the=0A= >ssl library in use should do this automatically, but likely does not.=0A= Well, not exactly "automatically, but X509_CRL_get0_by_ccert() checks=0A= to see if a certificate is revoked, so all the code needed to do was=0A= read the CRL file and then loop through the certificates, checking=0A= each one.=0A= =0A= >As the library likely does not, we should probably make this an=0A= >option to close all connections upon CRL reload, with it being well=0A= >documented.=0A= >=0A= >Now that option should likely be set to default on, but documented=0A= >such that if you do regular/often CRL reloads, that a user may want=0A= >to turn that off if it's disruptive to their server.=0A= Not necessary, since doing just the revoked ones seems to work.=0A= =0A= If you are curious, you can look at the recent commits or code=0A= under head/projects/nfs-over-tls.=0A= =0A= If anyone is interested in testing it, you can look at:=0A= https://people.freebsd.org/~rmacklem/nfs-over-tls-setup.txt=0A= =0A= Thanks for the useful suggestion, rick=0A= =0A= --=0A= John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579=0A= =0A= "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."=0A= =0A= From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 14:04:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1DA3E1469 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:04:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsdy72HM5z42Lm; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:04:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id IuWgkPjLIs3D6IuWhkSRJt; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:04:44 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=bZHV7MDB c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=5f636cfd a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=reM5J-MqmosA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=LRFxdfK2jy3J0fLttvUA:9 a=QzgSAXtHoCJlvbBI:21 a=_j66ZYfVkM3nPhkY:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [IPv6:fc00:1:1:1::5b]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12AEFE4D; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HE4fZj007939; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:04:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Ed Maste cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Ed Maste message dated "Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:34:02 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:04:41 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfAjxnUplXzqGXfW5WfFhaNES0VXRR6E0/aWXmcuKUNyTfSN5XVYQFmn1pUmF3NDTVCegXBTfhxEEiZ/R+Vx72OQdctnIaaFIqsShfgbjGv6XeR4TTub0 V+FqDpQ7M/zeOEAfXUpdCU09Q9B8KnKoM0IKvfxP/QkbGsFXWeBMNjaCnoea+kIfQR0jYflR5eUlwPRnC4JFA6061gNDC9/s6jwkBa6mfFGUCwp7JVIzliZ9 IZ185jqlXxiyMTCwwbb+dQ== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsdy72HM5z42Lm X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.25 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[70.67.125.17:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.65)[0.650]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cschubert.com: no valid DMARC record]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.56)[0.561]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.59.134.13:from]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.74)[0.740]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:04:49 -0000 In message , Ed Maste writes: > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. > > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. > > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email her > e. We should also deprecate the FTP client. I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) FTP is firewall unfriendly. The F5 gateway at $JOB does not support FTP. When we still worked at the office I had to take my $JOB laptop to the coffee shop to use their wireless to download patches from Broadcom's FTP site. Now that I WFH (we won't ever go back to the office) I download while disconnected from the VPN. Then move the removed bits to ports, which I think we already have in tnftp and tnftpd. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 14:43:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EB03E1EC3 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:43:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-f170.google.com (mail-lj1-f170.google.com [209.85.208.170]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsfq629zcz44FQ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:43:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-f170.google.com with SMTP id k25so2299222ljk.0; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:43:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dxtrR0cSumQkGLDUtMFwcKMay9seWQG0W5xPj6WSQ2M=; b=dbh6yMq89cH7j3/SrjHau26ZyC8+h3hSSFivQ2wuJSwR1eWYBJw8mT1KrFGVwmCN5a Tby2HcoqGhJWMleCfDHh9eBZHfaKZ7uAfGtAoTA0WQDXYPdLBwDM3L/9p9J7Qyv1xk2Y I2Kcb6zSoiN1WWTgjToxQY11MWlbQ2vjJcN84Hml+HiYRS1i0Y2HH4yUilOle1KOnHOt aR3kJqQLF69nKeq+dcAgEZ18qMHbJOmYMEVjcf6oPN5g9YhskbbGvU0k6K2D1wkg1oek o56fDgE21BSEbhlOk9wFZr4TQ8BhKuOI6R+JxAeAROkUsEaGANhIFsgdrIzErMqGWFdK w6Ow== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532T+aQcB7thrpz/s/ixVnhZaR+JnWiwbBTsCpWX01rjtjHxNxa8 rDICyC+/OhbQpYgvJaTNYuI3akq4jTz9vA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzxZIh9J/SjrScqNDa2RDlZ1t2dLTqgEZgs2HFsls0uB0wxqqUjAjJt4Sw99uN+jdGZWJH6cQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3e17:: with SMTP id l23mr9394887lja.315.1600353823792; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-f52.google.com (mail-lf1-f52.google.com. [209.85.167.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v6sm2568333ljd.134.2020.09.17.07.43.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id y2so2444398lfy.10; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:43:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a19:c7c1:: with SMTP id x184mr8862962lff.77.1600353823413; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:43:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Gleb Popov Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 18:43:16 +0400 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Cy Schubert Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsfq629zcz44FQ X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.54 / 15.00]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.55)[-0.548]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.208.170:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[arrowd@freebsd.org,6yearold@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.208.170:from]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[arrowd@freebsd.org,6yearold@gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:43:47 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert wrote: > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > should be using HTTPS only. > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 14:46:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607863E2574 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:46:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from home.opsec.eu (home.opsec.eu [IPv6:2001:14f8:200::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsftH093xz44Vn; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:46:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from pi by home.opsec.eu with local (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kIvAx-000P1O-Jd; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:46:19 +0200 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:46:19 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917144619.GM53210@home.opsec.eu> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsftH093xz44Vn X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12502, ipnet:2001:14f8::/32, country:DE] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:46:31 -0000 Hi! > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > > should be using HTTPS only. > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. It's a bit too much. Deprecating it, 'add --really if you really want to use http/ftp' would be more useful for the common sys-admin 8-) -- pi@opsec.eu +49 171 3101372 Now what ? From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 14:50:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7D623E298F for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:50:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsfz81Kygz44ft; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:50:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id IvFAkPxpzs3D6IvFCkSbxK; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:50:42 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=bZHV7MDB c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=5f6377c2 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=reM5J-MqmosA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=whBed0hru0RSb0uxnG4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [IPv6:fc00:1:1:1::5b]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0446E6F; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HEodha009249; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:50:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202009171450.08HEodha009249@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Gleb Popov cc: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? In-reply-to: References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> Comments: In-reply-to Gleb Popov message dated "Thu, 17 Sep 2020 18:43:16 +0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 07:50:39 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfDkXnQWqVfdZTFzRLvbLfpPwR8KbWisdYjn0wxFaDrTPd8R8SCRSeSBRdn/ZYgzHHZQMPzThPk46gChGWEXnDbt3g5v+apaWNGB7Wlgbj0RxBU+FAp8k GaiuNjjlYMdElh6iMWr2IjgEDr6RaYtbtjJUNK49SEHpGXuXZ//BINnV7y1evbNMB8S6rMhBHS0Fqpq8EWiZvS+WzRrB2YBb7owL1Qwphv60hohlLM/yH95j wOrlgRacBt5vff5rnWah3PrFu9fEvO7otU+/RGI7xI4= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsfz81Kygz44ft X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:50:44 -0000 In message , Gleb Popov writes: > --00000000000028da0a05af83697d > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. Nope. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 14:52:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8F93E27FC for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:52:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meka@tilda.center) Received: from mail.tilda.center (mail.tilda.center [45.63.43.31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsg170rQSz458T; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:52:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from meka@tilda.center) Received: from tilda.center (109-93-225-192.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs [109.93.225.192]) by mail.tilda.center (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E7FC61206A; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:52:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:52:19 +0200 From: Goran =?utf-8?B?TWVracSH?= To: Kurt Jaeger Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917145219.mgtfdduhnwtyjpkp@tilda.center> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <20200917144619.GM53210@home.opsec.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yk4z3coxdeip55tg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200917144619.GM53210@home.opsec.eu> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsg170rQSz458T X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.35 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[tilda.center:s=mail]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.019]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[tilda.center:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[tilda.center,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.230]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:45.63.40.0/22, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:52:28 -0000 --yk4z3coxdeip55tg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 04:46:19PM +0200, Kurt Jaeger wrote: > Hi! > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download > > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. > > It's a bit too much. Deprecating it, 'add --really if you really > want to use http/ftp' would be more useful for the common > sys-admin 8-) Doesn't pkg/freebsd-update use libfetch? If I'm right and they do, http is widely used, then. --yk4z3coxdeip55tg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE1WIFkXy2ZeMKjjKEWj1TknovrLYFAl9jeCAACgkQWj1Tknov rLbRRg/8DlG9LUbkOSTIRxHXQFTXL5isMSWBSrTtLPnh3yPwjn/LkN4JPWboAgCc 6Nv0s6Dx9aFpULmBsA3qPH5pOPMEh6Z6gehP+tdd3fLoQ5dXexbUnMRgvRGF7gqV lcBlipeYDES81Xqd4Q6AEgQ/aIBenWZWJo+YaOMajTZqkadTJMZi1em9gikHy5tJ ASUIfErKDjy0QX03cG6Dctk2dEJnVAgsZvIa+OTWrUzkNEs8fjMUVOn6cAwiJH0E CeKUf2Qj0TFmviWUSdmFu4s7gJsDWc5ctKUsJyBIulXgMIZ1x5FKk4aCccablk8m Vw3XYz8dk5Q+uaFVd55fTSia9t7RMojeeyNCzJotge/AM3+JjnE/jmPCDFgC0X/0 OMNg4JkCEprlxxezfxiix63bjz6uM7EG64xVHa4TZ2ZBI2T+kEtjrBeWx7GMUufl +UucW5bY9xlaBXpfd3L1Mwhn0D5ZCw2Ku9JcLH5VPQVB3D3T7g+dgI2LaX/iEd8Q A3kCLtuH4XL5fnr50YI1VRZMEkDH9KyK3w2tuwFsblRHW7Jec+6XRjou+qNjTSPU 1nbi+oLt5FvW03fwfSn6moF2XJd9Ofv6d1Lm+/vnr5+gpwKChgZVkyzpoZbi8x8R HbfcFDHiuGGe6LTud/hBj3aStSUXM9MWc4bK/cS0x9zWOjYSLh4= =rddl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yk4z3coxdeip55tg-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:02:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A523E2F1A for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:02:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound5a.ore.mailhop.org (outbound5a.ore.mailhop.org [44.233.67.66]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsgDH42q2z45SB for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:02:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1600354920; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=l7GSnRl9eAsqo5mmDdtwpw+T3qsNLUyjPb9+VB2X6Q7xpeDKRwm3wxGp90CDrwh44JQozqlY74piY WwS+Oo4yDUfMmU8lCuisMy6mscp8FUdagAVWqnJXXd4N5fZhlbLFiEsRS7WI+5kNoXtwrm5yafXmvJ enOtdG2pUfAhedu2tcpGG7xa3RHa5h/+ld44Gh6KX112SClzA+bDTq6bsGLKILvd4fxUZkZAnyoZVM 9wsDBYmovWcJNOMIGz2cB25JpCqpkI/xW6nJjh2vTbpY7Jc1C/6TEsWNXzw2HjF+9BDbTicQcmAjkn jhm28AeyFFyUHZVV+zwv/AB0c8tDyrw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=Crw/AzucLWMQRU7/q5k1j2FZGkxLFQAsjdlceQHyXV0=; b=SMJGCUzfN2/XkuUtu/oATxxJ1Shf6MFziqPeUqH4zZBnLdjgVjI8PqSLUfAXvhWwhQCpRTebYZMg4 fjZlS/U30alGybMNnZfVdKrGne7eqMIX9rSC94BN/89DrD/7m3IBxC40hXXCRhjdUKpvdDebflc95m esdcMI1ipKoydctbojHOCpy0sFtuzygOkzq6TUKyZzpfYu1G/l4Zk5GAVmiia09/hF70RQaDmMWBkn xcSzCgeJspkb/TRUOtzZWMJBnQdISyef/L0Xy0AfrWq6AW0dngdVDf4R3Qw/wCKnrDJ4LK3aFLb6QH uO32R4unFveLsLgk1A8+9Q35IgLK1Nw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: bb736f2e-f8f6-11ea-8b38-614106969e8d X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (c-67-177-211-60.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.177.211.60]) by outbound3.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id bb736f2e-f8f6-11ea-8b38-614106969e8d; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:01:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 08HF1v9s005668; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:01:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? From: Ian Lepore To: Gleb Popov , Cy Schubert Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:01:57 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ASCII" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsgDH42q2z45SB X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:44.224.0.0/11, country:US]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:02:08 -0000 On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < > Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > wrote: > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. > > People > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. > Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and we have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what the context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't be used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are not concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet threats. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:06:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3AB3E3072 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:06:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsgJv5T2mz4609; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:06:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (etoilebsd.net [178.32.217.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5A0E9264BB; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:06:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by ivaldir.etoilebsd.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1370F49B41; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:05:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:05:33 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Cy Schubert Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917150533.i2trx3aww46i3oek@ivaldir.net> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="s54d65k6tuwjflwm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:06:07 -0000 --s54d65k6tuwjflwm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 07:04:41AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message om> > , Ed Maste writes: > > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. > > > > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. > > > > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in ema= il her > > e. >=20 > We should also deprecate the FTP client. >=20 > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. Peopl= e=20 > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might b= e=20 > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) >=20 That that and we can throw away half of the ports tree ;) Best regards, Bapt --s54d65k6tuwjflwm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEgOTj3suS2urGXVU3Y4mL3PG3PloFAl9jezgACgkQY4mL3PG3 PloXCA//c2e7qIJGLBMvFjOFs5KwLpHA59F2NmRYnFllzfk/DFc7chWijY2J2+LH JD9ADvDrt7vjwcQSeNGDiVPoPPjpUYUq5LEN7VhIKjsujfeylxmJHagmMPPwGG7H TTHrG87P3NgxJ7O2PnXy27GhtdQO73AOVRsb+O2EwmjlHWI6p1L0RwEh5vNiVNq3 xA9Vk6DcSMg0pNoqTGXkzCy7ZwUi52LIDrWOTh90r1C0v1pEwBNSzhlt2+zGHJ/A zno3Bs1lSY/Nf+4PLXE+Ussb0vrjU/gbccZrOOTijaYuam3Lfvc5bMdJSi7NEEdy Qzo1SK+aIeecqnDmStPqXHTJM3TnVStIm9r6cSW4H2bntt9kVZRbf29ileHS3Zy+ WgBhvGp4bReADkfQWL6TTTTOAbO4LlFXnUPKcA3UnKKqwm73JAes67Q/AGSNBgK9 bviTdzpg4p36aUljzi7JV12CqO0uWYibEBJpdM/on2QENesqXsk5TdYntENRLBwc PKYNzAv+JyifP8xzzwBE/HA5VCYaPvSfegQmfHbF/Bs54k6CqNtToixVxMeTHsxR ZxmxeV3meqN3OPTbLF4bJ5liJwQzgB+OK1PvTsOCfgN1kYxhJ9UEOsG6r0MoVZcJ NVh61pvNk6NZqO/ZLnO7Olgdk/h6H1JqBw8Iu75CfZCsKswJWDc= =q+fB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --s54d65k6tuwjflwm-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:12:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E01FC3E3A25 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsgSM47yXz46kZ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id 35ED73C0199; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:12:34 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:12:34 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: Gleb Popov Cc: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917151234.GA92193@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsgSM47yXz46kZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:199.48.128.0/22, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:12:35 -0000 --nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 06:43:16PM +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert > wrote: >=20 > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. Peo= ple > > should be using HTTPS only. > > >=20 > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. Yes, let's remove access to instance metadata on several (hundred-?)million AWS instances. -- Brooks --nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJfY3zhAAoJEKzQXbSebgfAmacH/3LXIYMF1ZOrZKoXiZ8nVzMO qhCUr+1JA9L13UOPpTC2rqNWrFL07sGhIS//t6QEweTUBha9fdjSU8c2r3JywrDq eYn/swSTCeAErLz62DbmPOdbe62Jopw6aEvmQXlVsIjnfoCs9CNZcHME7U1ot/hD qM0b+OyUoK7rZc87vOoaoHKwwzyqsVcufGBo7XDc1G6QvtFi/7iaGoZv+FrN+1Bm JQ7JZWgRAAJ17onFp9U1pJZtES/F+bT92W4xSaBpR+gZhCLV1D2FtYXMX/w/xUB0 Nxw09BGEc8pQxfSefPrlNMHnC6HEua4pBKy+69/2+OWKx3jlpipyLeH9srkojjI= =/5Fc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nFreZHaLTZJo0R7j-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:14:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896F33E3B5B for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:14:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com (mail-qk1-x72f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsgW351bpz46tk; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:14:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id o5so2524455qke.12; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :from:in-reply-to:cc:date:message-id:references:to; bh=ExSnr9v1XwIvg2rDvTgv50p8qC4CMEmhix0QJdUJP5s=; b=mjHRLLaXKKUd4D7w6kbbFdyzvbxV/N8LcIRdHJcVNG0Z//pvQgXnC1/eEKNa8nTrwI QgjNME7xRwSiOWBTNOP3bxiAN6jMxecg2E/K3uJuHT5OQ7TIosWEy5Ldl6YT0vueiiN3 eMZcfFQlvFjfAB3wUrUozCk/JfCYNbjt9U6urrHtCbzvVmjMKmOZsFqOoxBamervxSww BW+3I8jyV3Hiqde/PAz7l1tf7DRmi6WrcQXW4ttM21ftC+Wj6ejBogWy8nihgaxK506X qFHPoRa+/dVa7drV0yqCJKgXpqlqO7ZUtrTW7RqRSPX9eem4dBoaDNDeWWcGy6XD1UZX R15A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ExfCQI3wqUG2G0B8jw8NJYskqBCc8FdZ/tg3qeeikR/MPYVET jzxRPQIH9z/4eB+kZQvH6Ekxpf9Qpmw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwF6O7X1pEL2u8fwZwZy2z2PA/iC2LKdP5ZwGLeRiHCK+yJRHkXRy1rX9MUJy2ls5u6O+RbDg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:cf6:: with SMTP id c22mr29231150qkj.190.1600355693290; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([2804:389:2013:b260:812b:20eb:a949:c51a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q7sm22472113qte.95.2020.09.17.08.14.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? From: =?utf-8?Q?Lucas_Nali_de_Magalh=C3=A3es?= In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:14:49 -0300 Message-Id: References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> To: Cy Schubert X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18A373) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsgW351bpz46tk X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.17)[-1.166]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.981]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.035]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:14:56 -0000 Hi. > On Sep 17, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Cy Schubert wrot= e: > =EF=BB=BFIn message om> > , Ed Maste writes: >> FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to >> remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent >> security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. >=20 > We should also deprecate the FTP client. >=20 > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People= =20 > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be= =20 > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) I usually evaluate the possibility to interact with legacy stuff as a featur= e and then this would make FreeBSD shine less. The associated security impro= vement could be done in many different ways and this one is one of the worst= s. Maybe a warning during use or a flag to disable/enable it when desired or= needed? And among all the security measures the project can take to improve= FreeBSD security, this one is on the bottom of my list for sure. FTPD not e= ven comes enabled by default. --=20 rollingbits =E2=80=94 =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@gmail.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollin= gbits@terra.com.br =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@yahoo.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbi= ts@globo.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@icloud.com From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:19:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8670C3E3E69 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:19:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sobomax@sippysoft.com) Received: from mail-ej1-f50.google.com (mail-ej1-f50.google.com [209.85.218.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsgcb3blgz47QN for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:19:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sobomax@sippysoft.com) Received: by mail-ej1-f50.google.com with SMTP id e23so3858086eja.3 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:19:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VLxUh+TmCY/PspVLnxAWh3YVgiFQsWusBrsbL7OnqPI=; b=NN3Y1UiNLoqKToI87wtAYzCDAVDJuX3MythshDqW0tZFI+WZHPc6AFJXQOgWnEVvhr dNF0ijdFPgxelKMq5ygx5JFN/HZgTRppvlUQP69t48NdTXoJRolfm8vNepO9ZLeYFzTi /w6cgvINT2ywH1E0Q9KN1TURMn3uLWJ7WQzWnTidaVhuIl/ChJiPuBDHEEzdCs1+Ri38 Kqy9OsEOv6YnqDj41RrjJrW4jpvcjdQbPr5gX1kAtOhU6r2W0K4wLLBHqISBCz8FABr0 zOAPTWZWrVKskuMU/DNjCyy2MVQVKx+B86NzOsyyg0jN/caSWZFqCRYgpYUGi3TH9AJ7 YNmw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5320WZLtEw5UNDb/luKIcnnt7OnU+bBw/7I/Ht7/bFMu7soevknA L77pqhcL8bvAZkMX5ccUCyjr2efFcBjXaYqz0yQpsB7zs+s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxuBxFmp9bLgEL8Csb3iYczLClzAmy8LrC7/02hDwypnONUa4IUx2pPtUmbd0HjNACzmVHVyAjl2Yi186x+tOw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:60d5:: with SMTP id f21mr30993776ejk.94.1600355980998; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:19:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Maxim Sobolev Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:19:29 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Cy Schubert Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsgcb3blgz47QN X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.52 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.93)[-0.927]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[sobomax]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[209.85.218.50:from]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.040]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.55)[-0.550]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.218.50:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[sobomax@freebsd.org,sobomax@sippysoft.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[sobomax@freebsd.org,sobomax@sippysoft.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:19:44 -0000 Re: removing HTTP client please no!!! The current drive to "outlaw" HTTP coming from companies who see all world via web browser. Totally ignoring the fact that HTTP != HTTPS in particular in cases where reliability and lower complexity of the system takes precedence over on-the-wire protocol security. For example, many internal APIs of AWS EC2 are HTTP. -Max On Thu., Sep. 17, 2020, 7:04 a.m. Cy Schubert, wrote: > In message > om> > , Ed Maste writes: > > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. > > > > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. > > > > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in > email her > > e. > > We should also deprecate the FTP client. > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) > > FTP is firewall unfriendly. > > The F5 gateway at $JOB does not support FTP. When we still worked at the > office I had to take my $JOB laptop to the coffee shop to use their > wireless to download patches from Broadcom's FTP site. Now that I WFH (we > won't ever go back to the office) I download while disconnected from the > VPN. > > Then move the removed bits to ports, which I think we already have in > tnftp > and tnftpd. > > > -- > Cheers, > Cy Schubert > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org > NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org > > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:37:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09E03E4835 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:37:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.netplex.net (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.netplex.net", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsh0d4Swzz49Sw; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:37:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from deischen@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost.localdomain (ip-414b102e.ct.fixed.ntplx.com [65.75.16.46]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netplex.net (8.15.1/8.15.1/NETPLEX) with ESMTPSA id 08HFauaj002706 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:36:56 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS and Clam AntiVirus (mail.netplex.net) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (mail.netplex.net [204.213.176.9]); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Daniel Eischen Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:36:55 -0400 Message-Id: <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org> References: Cc: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current In-Reply-To: To: Maxim Sobolev X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18A373) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsh0d4Swzz49Sw X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6062, ipnet:204.213.176.0/20, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:37:06 -0000 > On Sep 17, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Maxim Sobolev wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFRe: removing HTTP client please no!!! The current drive to "outla= w" HTTP > coming from companies who see all world via web browser. Totally ignoring > the fact that HTTP !=3D HTTPS in particular in cases where reliability and= > lower complexity of the system takes precedence over on-the-wire protocol > security. For example, many internal APIs of AWS EC2 are HTTP. Agree. And remember the mantra: tools, not policy. -- DE From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:52:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828B13E4AE4 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:52:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garga.bsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x735.google.com (mail-qk1-x735.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::735]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BshLf5QwJz4C8g; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:52:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garga.bsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x735.google.com with SMTP id n133so2676288qkn.11; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:52:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VTm11I2I4QejORdC65LN2FuYAZVFBkDr9PGsPM2Y4HU=; b=FwfE2s8OL3ap/wJBoRthQu8Jr8gB4iZkhwPXFFIv38gT7LMQdfVxC00TpI1zLrnUG4 Z71umf37VeC1+DYfrhs60LFsKccCGT5UuMN5fBinXNecfcIckNxma/9iEEJR4HwZIbes OwAkCI0hsdIkgpeiCYaGlLlH030AKjrYhQDsHgx8N/KOIxgO+msRmbFfPHlLxFpBathp 9DaLfliOjphunoJ/cGuc1zv/McX7Put9L9xykGi0yhNfjmE/8l2UBUFOpUx0g5Aa/ot6 GYwfO4K3hdGinsiKRdkxS89iZe+Unh10oxzMPRT2qrxeawbMTZRjJ6F/en8zMBFetare vijg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5330HTXy0Psdeu8dGEU7KVavPIkjYhG4BbjaSwwN0FzDiBKFSdl5 74XDhlRFJuFbAesa+tFXb1FE67sfgQ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwCrYOpY0D5taRY3+rqWGLShzFIyRAADP/VulrxVmrq8Xfeupxbt3Q3XXp/MG1XikMmN1tt4A== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2284:: with SMTP id o4mr29616751qkh.206.1600357960816; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbp.home (200-12-5-188.rev.tribenet.com.br. [200.12.5.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v90sm53035qtd.66.2020.09.17.08.52.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Renato Botelho Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste Cc: FreeBSD Current References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Renato Botelho Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:52:36 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.2.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BshLf5QwJz4C8g X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.73 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.53)[-0.526]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[garga@FreeBSD.org,gargabsd@gmail.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[garga@FreeBSD.org,gargabsd@gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.973]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.034]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::735:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:52:43 -0000 On 17/09/20 11:04, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message om> > , Ed Maste writes: >> FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to >> remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent >> security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. >> >> I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in >> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a >> number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base >> system one we can create a port for it first, as well. >> >> Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email her >> e. > > We should also deprecate the FTP client. > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) > > FTP is firewall unfriendly. > > The F5 gateway at $JOB does not support FTP. When we still worked at the > office I had to take my $JOB laptop to the coffee shop to use their > wireless to download patches from Broadcom's FTP site. Now that I WFH (we > won't ever go back to the office) I download while disconnected from the > VPN. > > Then move the removed bits to ports, which I think we already have in tnftp > and tnftpd. pkg still uses HTTP ❯ sudo pkg -d update -f Password: DBG(1)[78228]> pkg initialized Updating FreeBSD repository catalogue... DBG(1)[78228]> PkgRepo: verifying update for FreeBSD DBG(1)[78228]> Pkgrepo, begin update of '/var/db/pkg/repo-FreeBSD.sqlite' DBG(1)[78228]> Fetch: fetching from: http://pkgmir.geo.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:13:amd64/latest/meta.conf with opts "i" Fetching meta.conf: 100% 163 B 0.2kB/s 00:01 DBG(1)[78228]> Fetch: fetching from: http://pkgmir.geo.freebsd.org/FreeBSD:13:amd64/latest/packagesite.txz with opts "i" Fetching packagesite.txz: 100% 6 MiB 6.5MB/s 00:01 From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 15:55:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D3A3E5190 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:55:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BshPv0xGtz4Cdk; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:55:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id IwFrkSXvXTWWpIwFsk4nPR; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:55:29 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=EcV2/NqC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=5f6386f1 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=reM5J-MqmosA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=NC-6p4tjizZu4w5hGJYA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [IPv6:fc00:1:1:1::5b]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DB73F51; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HFtQlB010471; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:55:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202009171555.08HFtQlB010471@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Daniel Eischen cc: Maxim Sobolev , Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? In-reply-to: <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org> References: <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org> Comments: In-reply-to Daniel Eischen message dated "Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:36:55 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:55:26 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfIrCQ7IBofIzgpKb44NL+D/kBbDycWV89iOI5dkZZHxdflpT3pkJvpe+LMZt2MAJ7gBuNd47K8og3xOu/Sn94JqN9PTvMXmrtrqxDUIlv8mPA3X29SbL Ki7JcJ4mh2v/TC2WepfxQwtd8MQFRxrPj82PS/O5TKpUMKJ/eSGwpuqrZFdi9eTNcHA6rvYbjEyN0Uv9NKBog9CJe8YktzpHl/ED9Ma7NDW0DG2DXOKXtyYU vJNwb8rxzcdjVivdbLjbIhnZZTGsTN569oZhC+9MUdi4a0+uQl/XbTV2zaePCZiu X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BshPv0xGtz4Cdk X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.24 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[64.59.134.12:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.24)[-0.237]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[70.67.125.17:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cschubert.com: no valid DMARC record]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.88)[0.884]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.59.134.12:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.29)[0.291]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:55:32 -0000 In message <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org>, Daniel Eischen w rites: > > > > On Sep 17, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > > > > Re: removing HTTP client please no!!! The current drive to "outlaw" HTTP > > coming from companies who see all world via web browser. Totally ignoring > > the fact that HTTP != HTTPS in particular in cases where reliability and > > lower complexity of the system takes precedence over on-the-wire protocol > > security. For example, many internal APIs of AWS EC2 are HTTP. > > Agree. And remember the mantra: tools, not policy. Since there are so many I'll pick this email to reply to. libfetch should be designed to call plugins. An https plugin, http plugin, ftp plugin, sftp plugin, and so on. New protocols are added as needed, preferably to ports before they are mainstream. Old protocols are removed and moved to ports. People who still need to use old protocols can install the port which plugs into libfetch. When a protocol becomes stale it's forgotten, no longer maintained and simply disappears into the ether. Given that pkgbase will become a reality at some point the line between base and ports will blur. I expect at some point some of what we see in base to simply become ports. As a developer of both base and ports, ports are much easier to maintain than importing into base. That's my vision. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 16:08:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94DB3E5A01 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:08:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bshhg03w7z4DZm for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:08:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2f.google.com with SMTP id cr8so1228269qvb.10 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/2xNtB0ggN9/JFyvacB/WTmyOqJ+LC/Jss85XoBLZI0=; b=TV6EARaJNXYS+umZTSiE1QECk0JFzEq0u79tdqqlu3n/zq3hogsIQxOwg0voe/x4WE UJ0Bd+0jrzjxM443WVFPpIW4vPDhLznZs64MKBwuQhUVScXuepwAQ6X0i35Xcp8sOocs LHPzFMsxK6ukDmvDREHvlVYEzuKT0rCNEgyJ36Ntte0s1gUyxBfycgGwKMoJsWdjYtUu ze9S16Si7W06CMwts46t4kmMfQDh1pNjg33xUXxRxCIioJB9hLDB1F8Crp7pn+uuX0w1 hhxDslbxOVQHgbtUgogo+TZg3WEuJHCjeQqxrW3Bz+L7iWItjrGDBybGrOdL4CTJtsfi uxuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5335awnvF/KOUEondgIjqCxi/hEAorQojUgd3iIOnE12o20d7RJe N0T4u4NCS7QcxB035AQHr3rgEA2+WJrYe7kN1bMruw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwHgk0/0a9+6MASxf3M1HwYUDOFjLFCjtkeNMbeswYlj6nZpHmafv1VG22/7WJYJNRsu310iIMSA9hHFU23L5s= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:544a:: with SMTP id h10mr13073118qvt.35.1600358897938; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:08:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:08:07 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Cy Schubert Cc: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bshhg03w7z4DZm X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.944]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.007]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.73)[-0.729]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2f:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:08:19 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 8:05 AM Cy Schubert wrote: > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) > The project isn't going to do that. "tools not policy" dictates that anything like that should be done in fetch(1) and likely only as a command line option for people that require a secure connection (or that can tolerate an insecure one). Warner From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 16:47:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1728B3E68C9 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:47:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bsdio.com) Received: from out03.mta.xmission.com (out03.mta.xmission.com [166.70.13.233]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsjZ41w7Tz4H5S; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:47:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rebecca@bsdio.com) Received: from in02.mta.xmission.com ([166.70.13.52]) by out03.mta.xmission.com with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1kIx4K-0012re-F4; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:47:36 -0600 Received: from mta4.zcs.xmission.com ([166.70.13.68]:36492) by in02.mta.xmission.com with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1kIx4J-0008IE-RK; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:47:36 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mta4.zcs.xmission.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F10A5004CD; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:47:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Amavis-Modified: Mail body modified (using disclaimer) - mta4.zcs.xmission.com Received: from mta4.zcs.xmission.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta4.zcs.xmission.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ok6kuYripEpI; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.0.10.122] (c-174-52-16-57.hsd1.ut.comcast.net [174.52.16.57]) by mta4.zcs.xmission.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3F0E950013B; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:47:35 -0600 (MDT) To: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste Cc: FreeBSD Current References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Rebecca Cran Message-ID: <386a959f-7151-248f-68ab-dfbcefa38eb3@bsdio.com> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:47:34 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-XM-SPF: eid=1kIx4J-0008IE-RK; ; ; mid=<386a959f-7151-248f-68ab-dfbcefa38eb3@bsdio.com>; ; ; hst=in02.mta.xmission.com; ; ; ip=166.70.13.68; ; ; frm=rebecca@bsdio.com; ; ; spf=none X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 166.70.13.68 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rebecca@bsdio.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on sa03.xmission.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=8.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_50, DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE,NICE_REPLY_A,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG,TooManyTo_001 autolearn=disabled version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Spam-Report: * -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP * 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% * [score: 0.5010] * 0.3 TooManyTo_001 Multiple "To" Header Recipients 2x (uncommon) * 0.0 T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG BODY: No description available. * -0.0 DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE Not listed in DCC * [sa03 1397; IP=ok Body=1 Fuz1=1] [Fuz2=1] * -0.0 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Spam-DCC: XMission; sa03 1397; IP=ok Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Combo: ;Cy Schubert , Ed Maste X-Spam-Relay-Country: X-Spam-Timing: total 319 ms - load_scoreonly_sql: 0.02 (0.0%), signal_user_changed: 4.4 (1.4%), b_tie_ro: 3.1 (1.0%), parse: 1.23 (0.4%), extract_message_metadata: 4.8 (1.5%), get_uri_detail_list: 0.85 (0.3%), tests_pri_-1000: 2.2 (0.7%), tests_pri_-950: 1.11 (0.3%), tests_pri_-900: 0.89 (0.3%), tests_pri_-90: 125 (39.3%), check_bayes: 124 (38.8%), b_tokenize: 4.0 (1.3%), b_tok_get_all: 4.1 (1.3%), b_comp_prob: 1.18 (0.4%), b_tok_touch_all: 112 (35.0%), b_finish: 0.74 (0.2%), tests_pri_0: 169 (52.9%), check_dkim_signature: 0.40 (0.1%), check_dkim_adsp: 50 (15.7%), poll_dns_idle: 45 (14.0%), tests_pri_10: 1.70 (0.5%), tests_pri_500: 6 (1.8%), rewrite_mail: 0.00 (0.0%) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? X-Spam-Flag: No X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Thu, 05 May 2016 13:38:54 -0600) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on in02.mta.xmission.com) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsjZ41w7Tz4H5S X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.45 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.965]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.043]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdio.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdio.com:s=xmission]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[174.52.16.57:received]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdio.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.04)[-1.039]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6315, ipnet:166.70.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[166.70.13.233:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:47:41 -0000 On 9/17/20 8:04 AM, Cy Schubert wrote: > > We should also deprecate the FTP client. > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) As an aside, are there any plans to remove the word "ftp" from the FreeBSD download sites. e.g. https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/12.1/ ? -- Rebecca Cran From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 17:07:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B1DD3E73DD for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:07:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsk153dyfz4JWJ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:07:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 08HH7SO6035851 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 08HH7S0b035850; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:07:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:07:28 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: Ian Lepore Cc: Gleb Popov , Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917170728.GA35842@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsk153dyfz4JWJ X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.44 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.55)[-0.546]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.02)[0.021]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.04)[-0.040]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[washington.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM, none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:07:38 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 09:01:57AM -0600, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < > > Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > > wrote: > > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. > > > People > > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download > > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. > > > > Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and we > have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. > > I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] > "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what the > context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't be > used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to > each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are not > concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet > threats. > +1 My small FreeBSD-based HPC cluster is deattached from the internet. -- Steve From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 17:53:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5CD3E87A0 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:53:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsl2S1XxZz4MNq; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:53:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 08HHrjnc014851; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 08HHrjbj014850; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:53:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202009171753.08HHrjbj014850@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? In-Reply-To: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> To: Cy Schubert Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:53:45 -0700 (PDT) CC: Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsl2S1XxZz4MNq X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.70 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.64)[-0.644]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.36)[-0.356]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.20)[-0.203]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:53:53 -0000 > In message om> > , Ed Maste writes: > > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. > > > > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. > > > > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email her > > e. > > We should also deprecate the FTP client. > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) All the world is NOT the internet, there are far to many uses and places that do not need or warrant https, or sftp to make this type of move. It is already become very annoying that certain infustructure now only supports https for what is data that has no security concern. Please do NOT remove the ftp client, or the ability of fetch to use ftp or http protocols. > > FTP is firewall unfriendly. Passive mode solved that decades ago. > > The F5 gateway at $JOB does not support FTP. When we still worked at the > office I had to take my $JOB laptop to the coffee shop to use their > wireless to download patches from Broadcom's FTP site. Now that I WFH (we > won't ever go back to the office) I download while disconnected from the > VPN. I believe this is mis-information on F5 gateways, I know that at least some of them can be configure to support ftp. Any gateway/firewall that can not be configure to support passive mode ftp is.. um... broken. > Then move the removed bits to ports, which I think we already have in tnftp > and tnftpd. > > > -- > Cheers, > Cy Schubert > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org > NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org > > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 17:59:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A94D3E865A for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:59:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from zxy.spb.ru (zxy.spb.ru [195.70.199.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsl921XD4z4Mjt; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:59:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from slw@zxy.spb.ru) Received: from slw by zxy.spb.ru with local (Exim 4.86 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1kIyBo-00054u-SI; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:59:24 +0300 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:59:24 +0300 From: Slawa Olhovchenkov To: Cy Schubert Cc: Daniel Eischen , Maxim Sobolev , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917175924.GC2033@zxy.spb.ru> References: <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org> <202009171555.08HFtQlB010471@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <202009171555.08HFtQlB010471@slippy.cwsent.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: slw@zxy.spb.ru X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zxy.spb.ru); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsl921XD4z4Mjt X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.23 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.34)[-0.341]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.01)[-0.013]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zxy.spb.ru]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.32)[-0.317]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5495, ipnet:195.70.192.0/19, country:RU]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:59:35 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 08:55:26AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org>, Daniel > Eischen w > rites: > > > > > > > On Sep 17, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > > > > > > Re: removing HTTP client please no!!! The current drive to "outlaw" HTTP > > > coming from companies who see all world via web browser. Totally ignoring > > > the fact that HTTP != HTTPS in particular in cases where reliability and > > > lower complexity of the system takes precedence over on-the-wire protocol > > > security. For example, many internal APIs of AWS EC2 are HTTP. > > > > Agree. And remember the mantra: tools, not policy. > > Since there are so many I'll pick this email to reply to. > > libfetch should be designed to call plugins. An https plugin, http plugin, > ftp plugin, sftp plugin, and so on. New protocols are added as needed, > preferably to ports before they are mainstream. Old protocols are removed > and moved to ports. People who still need to use old protocols can install > the port which plugs into libfetch. When a protocol becomes stale it's > forgotten, no longer maintained and simply disappears into the ether. > > Given that pkgbase will become a reality at some point the line between > base and ports will blur. I expect at some point some of what we see in > base to simply become ports. As a developer of both base and ports, ports > are much easier to maintain than importing into base. And for install plugin from ports use HTTP AWS API installed from ports? From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 18:10:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572743E8EEE for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 18:10:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BslPq5ZcFz4Nww; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 18:10:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id IyMbkNS8NLWW5IyMdkmAYN; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:10:36 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=Z5JSoFdA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=5f63a69d a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=reM5J-MqmosA:10 a=iKhvJSA4AAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=F8dUZ4gbueR-rXo86CsA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lLDfmAyjiiwA:10 a=odh9cflL3HIXMm4fY7Wr:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [IPv6:fc00:1:1:1::5b]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 588CC10C7; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HIAWwJ012340; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202009171810.08HIAWwJ012340@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: "Rodney W. Grimes" cc: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? In-reply-to: <202009171753.08HHrjbj014850@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202009171753.08HHrjbj014850@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Comments: In-reply-to "Rodney W. Grimes" message dated "Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:53:45 -0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:10:32 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfCfb6Cpz7DYj6H2UOWW6qXG3l6dP2OpLbTHkTrY86tnmIzhXX6TMagzrSslNZXoIQLJqyYQMUZWRWbw3b1qBz/tnsDCbnG10ol0DcQmn7C31U7plynuK mQaT+JJedCfBUgqPeL1K5c/CG8jXyVSEDhyknDonbQmQYd1dcmwmMOkmx1WbPwplbm/4ULB8mbhbbCQArwGeJ2VhXlbVb+XnZ2LKVh42sjR14j+n3y+YzCjF VmoxHVq23cnn0iNDVPlSl35cCTD0oCKWQS9ER9elHeSQLAH7nk216uczODZhY8fV X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BslPq5ZcFz4Nww X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.34 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.51)[-0.508]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cschubert.com: no valid DMARC record]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.38)[-0.380]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.08)[-0.076]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.59.136.137:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 18:10:42 -0000 In message <202009171753.08HHrjbj014850@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney W. Grimes" writes: > > In message c > > om> > > , Ed Maste writes: > > > FTP is (becoming?) a legacy protocol, and I think it may be time to > > > remove the ftp server from the FreeBSD base system - with the recent > > > security advisory for ftpd serving as a reminder. > > > > > > I've proposed adding a deprecation notice to the man page in > > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447 to start this off. There are a > > > number of ftp servers in ports, and if we're going to remove the base > > > system one we can create a port for it first, as well. > > > > > > Any comments or concerns, please follow up in the code review or in email > her > > > e. > > > > We should also deprecate the FTP client. > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be > > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) > > All the world is NOT the internet, there are far to many > uses and places that do not need or warrant https, or sftp > to make this type of move. > > It is already become very annoying that certain infustructure > now only supports https for what is data that has no security > concern. > > Please do NOT remove the ftp client, or the ability of fetch > to use ftp or http protocols. > > > > > FTP is firewall unfriendly. > > Passive mode solved that decades ago. Not always, when you have dueling firewalls. When the local firewall allows passive and the remote firewall expects port ftp, i.e. denies ingress data port, you're stuck. I see this all the time. Switching from passive to port ftp will resolve the instance. I see this all the time. Usually due to NAT of ftp to a bastion in the DMZ. Even worse, Checkpoint is doing some funky things with various protocols. FTP-like protocols, like rexec, ftp, and oracle's tns listner are a royal PITA. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 19:45:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A12B3EB363 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gate2.funkthat.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsnWc6fxrz4VWL; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:45:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 08HJjh2B027559 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 08HJjh0m027558; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:45:43 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:45:43 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Warner Losh Cc: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917194543.GX4213@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Warner Losh , Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: D87A 235F FB71 1F3F 55B7 ED9B D5FF 5A51 C0AC 3D65 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: https://www.funkthat.com/ X-Resume: https://www.funkthat.com/~jmg/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsnWc6fxrz4VWL X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.06 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[jmg]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.03)[0.031]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[funkthat.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.08)[0.085]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.26)[-0.257]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:32354, ipnet:208.87.216.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:45:49 -0000 Warner Losh wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:08 -0600: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 8:05 AM Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. People > > should be using HTTPS only. (libfetch could support a plugin that might be > > supplied by a port should someone be inclined to write one.) > > The project isn't going to do that. "tools not policy" dictates that > anything like that should be done in fetch(1) and likely only as a command > line option for people that require a secure connection (or that can > tolerate an insecure one). Do we have a way for the admin/root to set fetch's policy to block FTP and HTTP? -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 19:49:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5203E3EB8D8 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:49:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gate2.funkthat.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsnc72jz0z4W2s; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:49:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 08HJnfhN027799 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:49:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 08HJnfZs027798; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:49:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:49:41 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: Ian Lepore Cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: Ian Lepore , FreeBSD Current References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: D87A 235F FB71 1F3F 55B7 ED9B D5FF 5A51 C0AC 3D65 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: https://www.funkthat.com/ X-Resume: https://www.funkthat.com/~jmg/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:49:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsnc72jz0z4W2s X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.75 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[jmg]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[funkthat.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.75)[0.750]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.36)[0.360]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.43)[0.435]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:32354, ipnet:208.87.216.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:49:44 -0000 Ian Lepore wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 09:01 -0600: > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < > > Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > > wrote: > > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. > > > People > > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download > > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. > > Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and we > have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. > > I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] > "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what the > context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't be > used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to > each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are not > concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet > threats. And I really dislike when people want to make sure that their unique case that less than a percent of people would every hit blocks the security improvements for the majority of people... I've given up on a number of security improvements in FreeBSD because of this attitude... -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 19:53:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C753EBB31 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:53:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (gate2.funkthat.com [208.87.223.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "gate2.funkthat.com", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsnhT08ZBz4W99; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:53:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: from gold.funkthat.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 08HJrPaY028038 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg@gold.funkthat.com) Received: (from jmg@localhost) by gold.funkthat.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 08HJrPsg028037; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jmg) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:53:25 -0700 From: John-Mark Gurney To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? Message-ID: <20200917195325.GZ4213@funkthat.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <202009171753.08HHrjbj014850@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202009171753.08HHrjbj014850@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE amd64 X-PGP-Fingerprint: D87A 235F FB71 1F3F 55B7 ED9B D5FF 5A51 C0AC 3D65 X-Files: The truth is out there X-URL: https://www.funkthat.com/ X-Resume: https://www.funkthat.com/~jmg/resume.html X-TipJar: bitcoin:13Qmb6AeTgQecazTWph4XasEsP7nGRbAPE X-to-the-FBI-CIA-and-NSA: HI! HOW YA DOIN? can i haz chizburger? User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (gold.funkthat.com [127.0.0.1]); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:53:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsnhT08ZBz4W99 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.12 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[jmg]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.08)[0.085]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[funkthat.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.12)[0.123]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.29)[-0.291]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:32354, ipnet:208.87.216.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[jmg@funkthat.com,jmg@gold.funkthat.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:53:29 -0000 Rodney W. Grimes wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:53 -0700: > > FTP is firewall unfriendly. > > Passive mode solved that decades ago. Requires that the server not be behind a firewall or port forwarding as well.. -- John-Mark Gurney Voice: +1 415 225 5579 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not." From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 19:53:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21DCD3EBD10 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:53:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound2k.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2k.ore.mailhop.org [54.148.219.64]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsnhk2fzzz4WTj for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:53:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1600372421; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=T3C9WCRsyzSQ36qualIK3fU0bKF7qjfRP8tlYcZyw/+oIr6jl0D3fQ6RRMfJumriWWacewkRuyjUh wsd8FwXEtGJYtL5IPsc1MsngQAJWUphMSJCrwOgh1dPOJP8CDTT3p8ahTSExyW95zUEkTyqT38km8v HNH5oNMf6Q8vGEsH+FS8996sEfWA2kZJzsnVvJs/klu3erEUkb4h0MOdc1nFo6jlw9qpFMav9aYfgU R9T4KR1WtCM9R9V09tx8B19RUHa0CsU+nxL246i3YzQaTU1N+Z+Yeczd4Ro2Jtdxlfhw/CzI+hsqNR 0wUJWe++XeB5HG8rg6DYKySscyTSbUw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=VNSfC9fv17o7b2bDte3UIEE+3/Ah87gR7nX8XrSz29Q=; b=bGwRvyiiI8X/TrNrOcxM+jo+oH//PwkThV95+glJ1KDq2UhGTsMSac9o32PwObHGvwmAYswafooB/ vM0Sq1etB40kKB+ygO82PUB3D0qw8bI3/2odN7bs1DcdNx681AK2TVOTDpXU3UFYahEYMnhAZ6xe/7 huHOwIrI4ZqCVGM0oBjnPYyetdREv0/g1unFH52q64dBu0VKfuXkZ3502arMrr95tGp15spTKbfIXm hKpmAKT/K4RWDn1O4aV66JLD34oJThoASDbzTEyQLnqiTkEuy0wABULhUjuRFNZo0lgg14eEXxsMRs ChnKXf6kQRtoPsobSigLF1LhTGnmHQg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound4.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 7acc54f1-f91f-11ea-9e11-df46ed8f892f X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (c-67-177-211-60.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.177.211.60]) by outbound4.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 7acc54f1-f91f-11ea-9e11-df46ed8f892f; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:53:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 08HJrcbK006642; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:53:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? From: Ian Lepore To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: FreeBSD Current Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:53:38 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ASCII" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsnhk2fzzz4WTj X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.148.0.0/15, country:US]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:53:43 -0000 On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 12:49 -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Ian Lepore wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 09:01 -0600: > > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < > > > Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as > > > > well. > > > > People > > > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > > > > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to > > > download > > > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for > > > this. > > > > Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and > > we > > have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. > > > > I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] > > "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what > > the > > context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't > > be > > used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to > > each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are > > not > > concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet > > threats. > > And I really dislike when people want to make sure that their unique > case that less than a percent of people would every hit blocks the > security improvements for the majority of people... > > I've given up on a number of security improvements in FreeBSD because > of this attitude... > Good. Because what you call "improvements" I would probably call "Imposing policy rather than providing tools." I've don't complain about making defaults the safest choices available. I complain about removing options completely because they're unsafe in some circumstances according to some people. -- Ian From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 19:58:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB633EBEDC for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:58:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [174.136.98.114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsnpF6NRbz4Wqs; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:58:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from [192.168.1.160] (cpe-23-243-161-111.socal.res.rr.com [23.243.161.111]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id c9262712 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:58:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Ian Lepore , FreeBSD Current References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> From: Pete Wright Message-ID: <5e9effdf-0fc6-5c3c-3d40-19f7a528fa3e@nomadlogic.org> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 12:58:22 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsnpF6NRbz4Wqs X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.01 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.959]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[23.243.161.111:received]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.72)[-0.722]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.03)[-0.032]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25795, ipnet:174.136.96.0/20, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 19:58:31 -0000 On 9/17/20 12:49 PM, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > Ian Lepore wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 09:01 -0600: >> On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < >>> Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as well. >>>> People >>>> should be using HTTPS only. >>>> >>> Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to download >>> something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for this. >> Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and we >> have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. >> >> I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] >> "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what the >> context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't be >> used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to >> each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are not >> concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet >> threats. > And I really dislike when people want to make sure that their unique > case that less than a percent of people would every hit blocks the > security improvements for the majority of people... > > I've given up on a number of security improvements in FreeBSD because > of this attitude... > while i tend to agree with you here - i would say that in this case there is a very large use case where preservation of http is very important to a wide base of users: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/instancedata-data-retrieval.html https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/storing-retrieving-metadata https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/windows/instance-metadata-service regarding the main topic tho - dropping ftpd from base seems like a good iteration in clearing out cruft from the code base so we can focus on things with much larger user bases.  fortunately we have an excellent ports/pkg infrastructure to service this need if it arises. -pete -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 20:05:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B800A3EC3C9 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:05:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from news@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail.inka.de (mail.inka.de [IPv6:2a04:c9c7:0:1073:217:a4ff:fe3b:e77c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsny14pZDz4XXL for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:05:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from news@mips.inka.de) Received: from mips.inka.de (news@[127.0.0.1]) by mail.inka.de with uucp (rmailwrap 0.5) id 1kJ09R-00Cht8-3W; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:05:05 +0200 Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HK14eb057371 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:01:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from news@lorvorc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from news@localhost) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 08HK14B8057370 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:01:04 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from news) To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org From: Christian Weisgerber Newsgroups: list.freebsd.current Subject: Re: Plans for git Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:01:04 -0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <704d7f5a-5624-13bb-7c4c-038574b11031@gmail.com> <20200902191250.GF18446@blisses.org> User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (FreeBSD) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bsny14pZDz4XXL X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.86 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[news]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.91)[0.906]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[inka.de]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.89)[0.892]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.86)[0.862]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[naddy@mips.inka.de,news@mips.inka.de]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:202113, ipnet:2a04:c9c7::/32, country:DE]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[naddy@mips.inka.de,news@mips.inka.de]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:05:14 -0000 On 2020-09-02, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > Just to throw it out there, https://gameoftrees.org/ would be interesting > to explore for this. FWIW, I just committed a Got port (devel/got). -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 20:08:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295FA3EC45C for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:08:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bsp1s0K0vz4Y15 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:08:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-qk1-f170.google.com (mail-qk1-f170.google.com [209.85.222.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DAD6428985 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:08:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-qk1-f170.google.com with SMTP id q63so3651365qkf.3 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:08:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Nksunv7nWBmG0OQTMPCLvEiuKgfYQDRdUnFf4r5RrelIH/BxL aLg6zU99qkilvrom5ddzdrVuYXooktSC6Yhhuo4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzy8Ty3B8BarY5zmIsZj8/4dBRwPG6oCLqYYTiluZJOVUmpyWsq3gSQFdvvfcGv9mMSCjGPJW//y/oPhLepSqs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:136e:: with SMTP id d14mr9576767qkl.430.1600373312510; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:08:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <704d7f5a-5624-13bb-7c4c-038574b11031@gmail.com> <20200902191250.GF18446@blisses.org> In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:08:20 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:08:33 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 3:05 PM Christian Weisgerber wrote: > > On 2020-09-02, Mason Loring Bliss wrote: > > > Just to throw it out there, https://gameoftrees.org/ would be interesting > > to explore for this. > > FWIW, I just committed a Got port (devel/got). > This is probably better for a separate thread, but any idea if there are plans to eventually support local filesystem cloning in got? Thanks, Kyle Evans From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 21:03:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16E503EDFB9 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:03:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monochrome@twcny.rr.com) Received: from p-impout001.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net (p-impout010aa.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net [47.43.26.141]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsqFn1Qgbz4cmJ for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:03:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from monochrome@twcny.rr.com) Received: from [192.168.13.11] ([45.47.33.158]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id J14HkTLdgOQ8hJ14HkSQDK; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:03:50 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=SrXuF8G0 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VvwePSPmDFBOGFNvGtd2Cw==:117 a=VvwePSPmDFBOGFNvGtd2Cw==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=KTTuScNlVwC1WiptVl0A:9 a=M8XNbdeIQqsR-ERX:21 a=PsXe57KtNKAui5KA:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Subject: Re: r365488 page faults on AMD Ryzen 9 3950X To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <322eba76-60b3-fef5-c549-798d76e15614@gwdg.de> From: monochrome Message-ID: <69ff9432-fc8f-b0ab-8ad2-8e3daa77f8e1@twcny.rr.com> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:03:49 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <322eba76-60b3-fef5-c549-798d76e15614@gwdg.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfA2ImeB6Y5NvY9EINEkOTPXH77jX+QEIHMOrb50evAEij3XrZlZEiMtd+mb+UOOmvKN8dUFMoFgnEZGRlkUF7w/qhm9qMu/qy+IGPyl5rbSWxmSHdom9 nYphAkV7p/eDpkkY2lB573S7M9KzW21RAsIu1M9WGlee3/z7cdcRz4rhRHrhAXbeAbCqxlYLrumkow== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsqFn1Qgbz4cmJ X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.85 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_NEUTRAL(0.00)[47.43.26.141:from]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[45.47.33.158:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:47.43.26.0/24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[rr.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.62)[-0.624]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.53)[-0.532]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.40)[-0.395]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:40294, ipnet:47.43.24.0/21, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:03:58 -0000 I am also having this problem. Have you resolved it? Mine is a Ryzen 5 2400G On 9/12/20 5:22 AM, Rainer Hurling wrote: > Since r365488 (and above until recent) my box breaks with the following > error when starting: > > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > cpuid = 31; apic id = 1f > fault virtual address = 0x0 > fault code = supervisor read data, page not present > instruction pointer = 0x20:0xffffffff808f452b > stack pointer = 0x28:0xffffffff81711800 > frame pointer = 0x28:0xffffffff81711800 > code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b > = DPL 0, pres 1, long 1, def32 0, gran 1 > processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 > current process = 0 (swapper) > trap number = 12 > panic: page fault > cpuid = 31 > time = 1 > > > > Some infos about the system, the page fault occurs: > > CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16-Core Processor (3493.50-MHz > K8-class CPU) > Origin="AuthenticAMD" Id=0x870f10 Family=0x17 Model=0x71 Stepping=0 > Features=0x178bfbff > Features2=0x7ed8320b > AMD Features=0x2e500800 > AMD > Features2=0x75c237ff > Structured Extended > Features=0x219c91a9 > Structured Extended Features2=0x400004 > XSAVE Features=0xf > AMD Extended Feature Extensions ID > EBX=0x108b657 > SVM: (disabled in BIOS) NP,NRIP,VClean,AFlush,DAssist,NAsids=32768 > TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics > real memory = 68717379584 (65534 MB) > avail memory = 66756149248 (63663 MB) > Event timer "LAPIC" quality 600 > > > #cat /etc/sysctl.conf > security.bsd.map_at_zero=1 > kern.module_path=/boot/kernel;/boot/modules;/usr/local/modules > kern.evdev.rcpt_mask=6 > kern.maxfiles=49312 > kern.ipc.shm_allow_removed=1 > kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=16777216 > vfs.usermount=1 > net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1 > net.inet.tcp.sack.enable=1 > net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_auto=1 > net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_auto=1 > net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_max=16777216 > net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_max=16777216 > net.inet6.ip6.use_tempaddr=1 > net.inet6.ip6.prefer_tempaddr=1 > net.local.stream.recvspace=65536 > net.local.stream.sendspace=65536 > > > Please let me know, if I should provide more info or test something. > Thanks in advance, > Rainer > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 21:15:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334ED3EE4B4 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:15:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naddy@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail.inka.de (mail.inka.de [IPv6:2a04:c9c7:0:1073:217:a4ff:fe3b:e77c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsqVh4ffzz4dk5; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:15:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naddy@mips.inka.de) Received: from mips.inka.de (naddy@[127.0.0.1]) by mail.inka.de with uucp (rmailwrap 0.5) id 1kJ1FB-00CjE3-TK; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:15:05 +0200 Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HLBPSV058936; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:11:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from naddy@localhost) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 08HLBPGL058935; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:11:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from naddy) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:11:25 +0200 From: Christian Weisgerber To: Kyle Evans Cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Plans for git Message-ID: <20200917211125.GA58749@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <704d7f5a-5624-13bb-7c4c-038574b11031@gmail.com> <20200902191250.GF18446@blisses.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BsqVh4ffzz4dk5 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.87 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[naddy]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.48)[0.479]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[inka.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.74)[0.739]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.76)[0.757]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:202113, ipnet:2a04:c9c7::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:15:09 -0000 Kyle Evans: > > FWIW, I just committed a Got port (devel/got). > > This is probably better for a separate thread, but any idea if there > are plans to eventually support local filesystem cloning in got? I wouldn't know. I'm going to regret asking, but what would you need this feature for? -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 21:31:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C701C3EED11 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:31:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BsqsX4xPQz4fvJ for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:31:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-qv1-f44.google.com (mail-qv1-f44.google.com [209.85.219.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8CD0B29331 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:31:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-qv1-f44.google.com with SMTP id q10so1797753qvs.1 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:31:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Q0vYXiFxZt+rsL/e4rZQQmx5yBVDvpytT1+WXpj0QKZGoifd+ r98oOvjztGqS3HoqLPqtovpXezDJQe6PkLzjH7c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzP3cYEJGjb0ZOnjNvH1IUfju/8IofRnalPX0r7CXmmxwOXoRZ80+NE+rfIQt6WADcC7kCDoSwyDDwm+C/HrK4= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:41c4:: with SMTP id a4mr13829294qvq.60.1600378288127; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:31:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <704d7f5a-5624-13bb-7c4c-038574b11031@gmail.com> <20200902191250.GF18446@blisses.org> <20200917211125.GA58749@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> In-Reply-To: <20200917211125.GA58749@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> From: Kyle Evans Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:31:14 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Christian Weisgerber Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 21:31:28 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:15 PM Christian Weisgerber wrote: > > Kyle Evans: > > > > FWIW, I just committed a Got port (devel/got). > > > > This is probably better for a separate thread, but any idea if there > > are plans to eventually support local filesystem cloning in got? > > I wouldn't know. > > I'm going to regret asking, but what would you need this feature > for? > No worries, thanks for the port! =) It's not necessarily that bad -- I used to use it for a poor substitute for git-worktree before I learned about that, for local projects that I had no intention of pushing back to the remote so I saved myself the overhead of hitting the network. For the things I'd specifically be using got for, I can generally live without it easily enough. Thanks, Kyle Evans From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 22:45:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54B3D3EFEF6 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:45:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naddy@mips.inka.de) Received: from mail.inka.de (mail.inka.de [IPv6:2a04:c9c7:0:1073:217:a4ff:fe3b:e77c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BssVV4Bv8z3VlY; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:45:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naddy@mips.inka.de) Received: from mips.inka.de (naddy@[127.0.0.1]) by mail.inka.de with uucp (rmailwrap 0.5) id 1kJ2eH-00CkVE-1M; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:45:05 +0200 Received: from lorvorc.mips.inka.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HMeHHo060922; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:40:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de) Received: (from naddy@localhost) by lorvorc.mips.inka.de (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 08HMeHLC060921; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:40:17 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from naddy) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 00:40:17 +0200 From: Christian Weisgerber To: Kyle Evans Cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Plans for git Message-ID: <20200917224017.GB59463@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> References: <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <704d7f5a-5624-13bb-7c4c-038574b11031@gmail.com> <20200902191250.GF18446@blisses.org> <20200917211125.GA58749@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BssVV4Bv8z3VlY X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[naddy]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.52)[0.521]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[inka.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.74)[0.738]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.76)[0.759]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:202113, ipnet:2a04:c9c7::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 22:45:07 -0000 Kyle Evans: > > > This is probably better for a separate thread, but any idea if there > > > > I'm going to regret asking, but what would you need this feature > > for? > > It's not necessarily that bad -- I used to use it for a poor > substitute for git-worktree before I learned about that, for local > projects that I had no intention of pushing back to the remote so I > saved myself the overhead of hitting the network. Got uses "bare" repositories from which you check out as many worktrees as you want. And you can just keep local changes on a local branch. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Thu Sep 17 23:29:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69A13F1116 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:29:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BstTh5Fktz3XsC; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id J3LBkVuerTWWpJ3LCk6TmZ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:29:27 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=EcV2/NqC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=5f63f157 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=reM5J-MqmosA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=re3MI-Lb873Kp2c5MdQA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [IPv6:fc00:1:1:1::5b]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 482EE28E; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08HNTNrH056088; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:29:23 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202009172329.08HNTNrH056088@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Ian Lepore cc: John-Mark Gurney , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? In-reply-to: <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org> References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org> Comments: In-reply-to Ian Lepore message dated "Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:53:38 -0600." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 16:29:23 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfKiRQQdq1Iyza2i0f+AR9CYMnUZw91ehqxYTZgATUwIbgayAK18SYCOSi2Ul6SXwm7zpSATJ3VVLxJUvZKqU+lmOnbrToxoJDeQjwyLvhN1B9wK4EFKm cqWc9R/oKZh+I69q/tDOp+SpxPVXba07M+eta9kOivEnMSuRrfP7rw+zb1kKg5BuNOLXJlFOYPSPxYOpZbhy82PaFj2aZ3s7s4P7sp5gm0O2Lxp78rJ9qv/k eci3Fu/CJBt9zAzwyqOAYUqjMCvwMqVk14gQGBqbDMc= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BstTh5Fktz3XsC X-Spamd-Bar: +++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.02 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[64.59.134.12:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[70.67.125.17:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.022]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.01)[-0.007]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cschubert.com: no valid DMARC record]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.70)[0.702]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.59.134.12:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:29:29 -0000 In message <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org>, Ian Le pore writes: > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 12:49 -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Ian Lepore wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 09:01 -0600: > > > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < > > > > Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as > > > > > well. > > > > > People > > > > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to > > > > download > > > > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for > > > > this. > > > > > > Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and > > > we > > > have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. > > > > > > I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] > > > "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what > > > the > > > context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't > > > be > > > used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to > > > each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are > > > not > > > concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet > > > threats. > > > > And I really dislike when people want to make sure that their unique > > case that less than a percent of people would every hit blocks the > > security improvements for the majority of people... > > > > I've given up on a number of security improvements in FreeBSD because > > of this attitude... > > > > Good. Because what you call "improvements" I would probably call > "Imposing policy rather than providing tools." We as developers, here, on the job, or elsewhere, apply policy all the time when we make decisions regarding the software we write/maintain. When you think of it, I don't have the time for _____ is also a policy decision. My former manager's 80/20 rule, as much as I didn't like it at the time (but now see the wisdom), was also a policy decision. A business decision. > > I've don't complain about making defaults the safest choices available. > I complain about removing options completely because they're unsafe in > some circumstances according to some people. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 03:12:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12F93F5F4F for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 03:12:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com (mail-ed1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BszQc523Zz424Q; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 03:12:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from araujobsdport@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id a12so4518922eds.13; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:12:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QWXaycTb7GZGqxyaEI8nyyQJgIhTMuic+5r8fYgNm8U=; b=JdTMSAieKckz0sGTxF/hrnDFJEuCA8UughE7yFyhgNsGtNDTanIH8ENXai151irSeF KpENn0D2N1rU1oFkVB+gAgNSTMauOLk195z3P0bP/k3lgcLty32JZd0gzhfxsE0vvCbp 5zuGUm01UYjutbXtidSF3uKS+28eUdo7DzroRJDVxsM185s6LOBnWB0O5tcB1GoQrYRK Ja7zHCDjW+p6O/DKpBUjujMCbLY7LJZv8Eca+NQDW3eHkEzGXNRv+buD3M4CYyV/lRsI l9l9/GYOvZ8I/TslmzJu/vt8GTt5TSzhDu3PykiinADgfTIZU5RZ6HHPtYfuc0hQxzaZ 2eiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KeAl+UQwGlhFZuHfjTWzlAR9ed4D9GdSBX/QPM8o/8ToglLDO 5DK8GoD9zVQwVi5p1pIdBa5CZNgmuRl180p2wwPuOG4f0Gk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyHFT6FcelhjrGVDKoIb1G2Oe9e+DLwgHxGfu+SR+TPcfhrMpb0dvABCaeRJwxBs0bHDKkjE+frYcjYJaMxeaw= X-Received: by 2002:a50:ab1d:: with SMTP id s29mr37669799edc.246.1600398726723; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:12:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org> <202009171555.08HFtQlB010471@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <202009171555.08HFtQlB010471@slippy.cwsent.com> Reply-To: araujo@freebsd.org From: Marcelo Araujo Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:11:53 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Cy Schubert Cc: Daniel Eischen , Maxim Sobolev , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BszQc523Zz424Q X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.66 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[araujo@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.65)[-0.649]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.989]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.024]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::530:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 03:12:10 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 11:55 PM Cy Schubert wrote: > In message <451538DE-9427-4584-987B-8E4AA26C2981@freebsd.org>, Daniel > Eischen w > rites: > > > > > > > On Sep 17, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Maxim Sobolev > wrote: > > > > > > =C3=AF=C2=BB=C2=BFRe: removing HTTP client please no!!! The current d= rive to "outlaw" > HTTP > > > coming from companies who see all world via web browser. Totally > ignoring > > > the fact that HTTP !=3D HTTPS in particular in cases where reliabilit= y > and > > > lower complexity of the system takes precedence over on-the-wire > protocol > > > security. For example, many internal APIs of AWS EC2 are HTTP. > > > > Agree. And remember the mantra: tools, not policy. > > Since there are so many I'll pick this email to reply to. > > libfetch should be designed to call plugins. An https plugin, http plugin= , > ftp plugin, sftp plugin, and so on. New protocols are added as needed, > preferably to ports before they are mainstream. Old protocols are removed > and moved to ports. People who still need to use old protocols can instal= l > the port which plugs into libfetch. When a protocol becomes stale it's > forgotten, no longer maintained and simply disappears into the ether. > Thinking in this way, very soon we need to remove TCP, UDP, IP and the list growing, they are all stale. > Given that pkgbase will become a reality at some point the line between > base and ports will blur. I expect at some point some of what we see in > base to simply become ports. As a developer of both base and ports, ports > are much easier to maintain than importing into base. > > That's my vision. > > > -- > Cheers, > Cy Schubert > FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org > NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org > > The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 03:58:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C259A3F6F97 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 03:58:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ruslanngaripov@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bt0SD6p08z43k0 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 03:58:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ruslanngaripov@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id m5so4568357lfp.7 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:58:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6wIPefMlBjMb6DZeCY3cqmr9pr4gZYZ9hhTopTpx9w0=; b=fongSHH++KQKoDkkspl8sgc1akQEkjhJNOzv+WC2Toq28NuI102u73WHkF2bA2O2EG KgyPL/kCR3meLMxtaTYcpXwLyuhaHyxtDDcvLnyEcuLhjV6XQtFfIfR2b8RKi1FW0rdh Ex4lExnjGecStJKZo5mPruYXsgVW5MfuqEx4NftVFl/9Lp9Lf7F0vALRMnpNUcdWrScc 5uZJUmkmsCm3hSbtQ32smyHJFEa8DhjPt1ibG6vGzI/mdxgfE40UeA4vF1SPs76E2liU /FOzHVEcGeT631s8ekjGSI0ZHqxkp8pF+m1guiWu0GyPIKxT0LpTu60XitynIzaWH+zU hOWg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533N2Vvf8BJzxBezfZRd5/GNFwx24jzlKwbOquav58VsmGtLaE85 NoXnVroYRUWvofkVIzyKWnHJWqlBSfgHjhReY7OlYeLrVcc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNE9A1VHDftnFfqJLkctzuXAlJQVEjK0zJABEdhIMkKDV473dJonuqst0mOPHl+2GZ6VmE+BdxGmk5Pn9173Q= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:485c:: with SMTP id 28mr11283496lfy.584.1600401514826; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:58:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ac2:43d3:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:58:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ruslan Garipov Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 08:58:34 +0500 Message-ID: Subject: New messages after updating from r365443 to r365738 To: freebsd-current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bt0SD6p08z43k0 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.026]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::12a:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.76)[-0.758]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 03:58:37 -0000 Hi! After I had updated my FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT r365443 amd64 to r365738 the following messages started to appear on the console/log: $ egrep "not implemented|async_" /var/log/messages | fgrep "Sep 18" Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: __pm_runtime_resume not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: pm_runtime_mark_last_busy not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: __pm_runtime_suspend not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: pm_runtime_get_if_in_use not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: kmem_cache_shrink not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: register_oom_notifier not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: register_acpi_notifier not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: async_schedule is dodgy -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: pm_runtime_set_autosuspend_delay not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: __pm_runtime_use_autosuspend not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: async_synchronize_cookie not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker What do they mean? Should I provide more information on my system? 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Fri, 18 Sep 2020 06:10:45 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:956DBAABE84E9A96367EED41B0A188DC2BE53ECD1304E86A1998DE0256378737; UpperCasedChecksum:742395CD60C5AA421B92DD63493AEBE3929ADA9675A331B372AA2FF5CF868DB0; SizeAsReceived:8779; Count:48 Received: from AM0PR05MB5908.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::740b:5c0c:6f78:8fae]) by AM0PR05MB5908.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::740b:5c0c:6f78:8fae%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3370.019; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 06:10:45 +0000 Subject: Re: New messages after updating from r365443 to r365738 To: Ruslan Garipov , freebsd-current References: From: xtouqh@hotmail.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 09:10:44 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.2.2 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ClientProxiedBy: AM0PR03CA0018.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:14::31) To AM0PR05MB5908.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:123::12) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <1c1466fd-18af-ce49-ef56-09837e397151@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.6] (91.240.124.157) by AM0PR03CA0018.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:14::31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3391.14 via Frontend Transport; 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FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[hotmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.84)[-0.835]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[40.92.68.103:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.80.0.0/12, country:US]; FORGED_MUA_THUNDERBIRD_MSGID_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[91.240.124.157:received]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; ARC_ALLOW(0.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.81)[0.808]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.975]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.68.103:from]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 06:26:04 -0000 Ruslan Garipov wrote: > Hi! > > After I had updated my FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT r365443 amd64 to r365738 the > following messages started to appear on the console/log: > > $ egrep "not implemented|async_" /var/log/messages | fgrep "Sep 18" > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: __pm_runtime_resume not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: pm_runtime_mark_last_busy not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: __pm_runtime_suspend not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: pm_runtime_get_if_in_use not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: kmem_cache_shrink not implemented > -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: register_oom_notifier not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: register_acpi_notifier not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: async_schedule is dodgy -- see > your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: pm_runtime_set_autosuspend_delay > not implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: __pm_runtime_use_autosuspend not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > Sep 18 08:19:05 {host_name} kernel: async_synchronize_cookie not > implemented -- see your local kernel hacker > > What do they mean? > > Should I provide more information on my system? These are not something new and been there for ages coming from linuxkpi + your favorite drm/kms module, intended as a reminder on unimplemented functionality. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 07:57:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CD63DBB2E for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from filippomore@yahoo.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Bt5mC1fb5z4GVf for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from filippomore@yahoo.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 36A7F3DB844; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:47 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354613DBB2C for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from filippomore@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic301-30.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic301-30.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.184.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bt5mB22j5z4GQ1 for ; 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Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:45 +0000 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Filippo Moretti To: FreeBSD Current Message-ID: <1035415533.3781447.1600415860170@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Problem compiling world amd64 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1035415533.3781447.1600415860170.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:80.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/80.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bt5mB22j5z4GQ1 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.24 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.184.199:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.035]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.009]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.184.199:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.20)[-0.198]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[current]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:47 -0000 [filippo@sting ~]$ uname -a FreeBSD sting 13.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT #11 r365578: Thu Sep 10 19:= 38:51 CEST 2020=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 root@sting:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.a= md64/sys/STING=C2=A0 amd64 I have the following error during buildworld:ed '1s/\/bin\//\/rescue\//' /u= sr/src/rescue/rescue/../../sbin/reboot/nextboot.sh > nextboot_FIXED --- dhclient_FIXED --- sed '1s/\/bin\//\/rescue\//' /usr/src/rescue/rescue/../../sbin/dhclient/dhc= lient-script > dhclient_FIXED --- all_subdir_stand --- =3D=3D=3D> stand (all) --- all_subdir_stand/libsa --- =3D=3D=3D> stand/libsa (all) --- include/machine --- include/machine -> /usr/src/sys/amd64/include --- include/x86 --- include/x86 -> /usr/src/sys/x86/include --- beforedepend --- mkdir -p xlocale arpa;=C2=A0 for i in a.out.h assert.h elf.h limits.h nlist= .h setjmp.h stddef.h stdbool.h string.h strings.h time.h unistd.h uuid.h; d= o=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/include/$i $i;=C2=A0 done;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/sy= s/amd64/include/stdarg.h stdarg.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/sys/sys/errno.h er= rno.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/sys/sys/stdint.h stdint.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/s= rc/include/arpa/inet.h arpa/inet.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/include/arpa/tftp= .h arpa/tftp.h;=C2=A0 for i in _time.h _strings.h _string.h; do=C2=A0 [ -f = =C2=A0xlocale/$i ] || cp /dev/null xlocale/$i;=C2=A0 done;=C2=A0 for i in c= type.h fcntl.h signal.h stdio.h stdlib.h; do=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/stand/li= bsa/stand.h $i;=C2=A0 done cp: /dev/null: Invalid argument *** [beforedepend] Error code 1 make[4]: stopped in /usr/src/stand/libsa --- all_subdir_secure --- --- all_subdir_share --- --- all_subdir_lib --- The error is recurringFilippo From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 08:20:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D603C3DC36C for ; 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Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:20:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (rolling.home.utahime.org [192.168.174.11]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_CHACHA20_POLY1305_SHA256 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by eastasia.home.utahime.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E2032E2C2; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:20:19 +0900 (JST) X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.0 at eastasia.home.utahime.org Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:19:51 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20200918.171951.1442109784437640368.yasu@utahime.org> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Problem compiling world amd64 From: Yasuhiro KIMURA In-Reply-To: <1035415533.3781447.1600415860170@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1035415533.3781447.1600415860170.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1035415533.3781447.1600415860170@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 27.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bt6GS4p92z4HMY X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.66 / 15.00]; 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Fri, 18 Sep 2020 12:57:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rhurlin@gwdg.de) Received: from gmailer.gwdg.de (gmailer.gwdg.de [134.76.11.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtDQG6p35z4Xjg for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 12:57:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rhurlin@gwdg.de) Received: from excmbx-03.um.gwdg.de ([134.76.9.218] helo=email.gwdg.de) by mailer.gwdg.de with esmtp (GWDG Mailer) (envelope-from ) id 1kJFxM-0001Or-Ri; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 14:57:40 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (10.250.9.199) by EXCMBX-03.um.gwdg.de (134.76.9.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P521) id 15.1.2044.4; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 14:57:40 +0200 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 14:57:38 +0200 From: Rainer Hurling To: monochrome , Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: r365488 page faults on AMD Ryzen 9 3950X User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <1a88773b-d2fa-a790-c7e2-868d3884ba8b@twcny.rr.com> References: <69ff9432-fc8f-b0ab-8ad2-8e3daa77f8e1@twcny.rr.com> <1a88773b-d2fa-a790-c7e2-868d3884ba8b@twcny.rr.com> Message-ID: <865D6BF0-9F1E-4125-81D3-FB9A369FED8D@gwdg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [10.250.9.199] X-ClientProxiedBy: excmbx-08.um.gwdg.de (134.76.9.215) To EXCMBX-03.um.gwdg.de (134.76.9.218) X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by clamav X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtDQG6p35z4Xjg X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.02 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[134.76.11.17:from]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[rhurlin]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:134.76.10.0/23]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gwdg.de]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.020]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[134.76.11.17:from]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.45)[-0.450]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.052]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:680, ipnet:134.76.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 12:57:43 -0000 Hi,=20 I am AFK until Sunday, so can't investigate ATM=2E=20 And no, I haven't solved it until now=2E Thanks for your report=2E Rainer Am 18=2E September 2020 00:38:31 MESZ schrieb monochrome : > >forgot you > >-------- Forwarded Message -------- >Subject: Re: r365488 page faults on AMD Ryzen 9 3950X >Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:03:49 -0400 >From: monochrome >To: freebsd-current@freebsd=2Eorg > >I am also having this problem=2E Have you resolved it? Mine is a Ryzen 5 = 2400G > >On 9/12/20 5:22 AM, Rainer Hurling wrote: >> Since r365488 (and above until recent) my box breaks with the following >> error when starting: >>=20 >> Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode >> cpuid =3D 31; apic id =3D 1f >> fault virtual address =3D 0x0 >> fault code =3D supervisor read data, page not present >> instruction pointer =3D 0x20:0xffffffff808f452b >> stack pointer =3D 0x28:0xffffffff81711800 >> frame pointer =3D 0x28:0xffffffff81711800 >> code segment =3D base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b >> =3D DPL 0, pres 1, long 1, def32 0, gran 1 >> processor eflags =3D interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL =3D 0 >> current process =3D 0 (swapper) >> trap number =3D 12 >> panic: page fault >> cpuid =3D 31 >> time =3D 1 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Some infos about the system, the page fault occurs: >>=20 >> CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16-Core Processor (3493=2E50-MHz >> K8-class CPU) >> Origin=3D"AuthenticAMD" Id=3D0x870f10 Family=3D0x17 Model=3D0x71 = Stepping=3D0 >> Features=3D0x178bfbff >> Features2=3D0x7ed8320b >> AMD Features=3D0x2e500800 >> AMD >> Features2=3D0x75c237ff >> Structured Extended >> Features=3D0x219c91a9 >> Structured Extended Features2=3D0x400004 >> XSAVE Features=3D0xf >> AMD Extended Feature Extensions ID >> EBX=3D0x108b657 >> SVM: (disabled in BIOS) NP,NRIP,VClean,AFlush,DAssist,NAsids=3D32768 >> TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics >> real memory =3D 68717379584 (65534 MB) >> avail memory =3D 66756149248 (63663 MB) >> Event timer "LAPIC" quality 600 >>=20 >>=20 >> #cat /etc/sysctl=2Econf >> security=2Ebsd=2Emap_at_zero=3D1 >> kern=2Emodule_path=3D/boot/kernel;/boot/modules;/usr/local/modules >> kern=2Eevdev=2Ercpt_mask=3D6 >> kern=2Emaxfiles=3D49312 >> kern=2Eipc=2Eshm_allow_removed=3D1 >> kern=2Eipc=2Emaxsockbuf=3D16777216 >> vfs=2Eusermount=3D1 >> net=2Einet=2Etcp=2Erfc1323=3D1 >> net=2Einet=2Etcp=2Esack=2Eenable=3D1 >> net=2Einet=2Etcp=2Esendbuf_auto=3D1 >> net=2Einet=2Etcp=2Erecvbuf_auto=3D1 >> net=2Einet=2Etcp=2Esendbuf_max=3D16777216 >> net=2Einet=2Etcp=2Erecvbuf_max=3D16777216 >> net=2Einet6=2Eip6=2Euse_tempaddr=3D1 >> net=2Einet6=2Eip6=2Eprefer_tempaddr=3D1 >> net=2Elocal=2Estream=2Erecvspace=3D65536 >> net=2Elocal=2Estream=2Esendspace=3D65536 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please let me know, if I should provide more info or test something=2E >> Thanks in advance, >> Rainer >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >> https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd= =2Eorg" >>=20 >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-current@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eo= rg" From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 17:03:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423A03E7D62 for ; 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Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:03:06 +0000 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:03:02 +0000 (UTC) From: Filippo Moretti To: Yasuhiro KIMURA Cc: FreeBSD Current Message-ID: <1885244210.3961054.1600448582022@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20200918.171951.1442109784437640368.yasu@utahime.org> References: <1035415533.3781447.1600415860170.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1035415533.3781447.1600415860170@mail.yahoo.com> <20200918.171951.1442109784437640368.yasu@utahime.org> Subject: Re: Problem compiling world amd64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16583 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:80.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/80.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtKsS1dxxz3YbZ X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.184.201:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.26)[0.255]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.027]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.010]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.184.201:from]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[current]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:03:09 -0000 Thank you very much buildworld worked properly sincerelyFilippo On Friday, September 18, 2020, 10:20:58 AM GMT+2, Yasuhiro KIMURA wrote: =20 =20 From: Filippo Moretti Subject: Problem compiling world amd64 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 07:57:40 +0000 (UTC) > [filippo@sting ~]$ uname -a > FreeBSD sting 13.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT #11 r365578: Thu Sep 10 1= 9:38:51 CEST 2020=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 root@sting:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64= .amd64/sys/STING=C2=A0 amd64 >=20 (snip) > --- beforedepend --- > mkdir -p xlocale arpa;=C2=A0 for i in a.out.h assert.h elf.h limits.h nli= st.h setjmp.h stddef.h stdbool.h string.h strings.h time.h unistd.h uuid.h;= do=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/include/$i $i;=C2=A0 done;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/= sys/amd64/include/stdarg.h stdarg.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/sys/sys/errno.h = errno.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/sys/sys/stdint.h stdint.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr= /src/include/arpa/inet.h arpa/inet.h;=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/include/arpa/tf= tp.h arpa/tftp.h;=C2=A0 for i in _time.h _strings.h _string.h; do=C2=A0 [ -= f =C2=A0xlocale/$i ] || cp /dev/null xlocale/$i;=C2=A0 done;=C2=A0 for i in= ctype.h fcntl.h signal.h stdio.h stdlib.h; do=C2=A0 ln -sf /usr/src/stand/= libsa/stand.h $i;=C2=A0 done > cp: /dev/null: Invalid argument > *** [beforedepend] Error code 1 >=20 > make[4]: stopped in /usr/src/stand/libsa > --- all_subdir_secure --- > --- all_subdir_share --- > --- all_subdir_lib --- >=20 > The error is recurringFilippo 1. Update source tree to r365643 or later. 2. cd /usr/src/bin/cp 3. make 4. make install 5. cd /usr/src 6. make buildworld --- Yasuhiro KIMURA _______________________________________________ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" =20 From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 17:38:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D18B3E8773 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:38:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darkfiberiru@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtLfL3DVFz3bKg; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:38:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from darkfiberiru@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id a15so5763905ljk.2; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 10:38:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aN7OeZ2EaBZhlF6IYxTIQOnUh5TWuMTFj6arESs7LZc=; b=STxzhG8upsfSj6assbkFU69Hk6ZcrUt9bQVF8Ge5Fwtys2lEH2yQA9m36tgbr0wycR s0QTIahiv/kUtmkSx47agGIEJDPhiQ8Rpuati5WA/qCZo4rE10uTLpM+pihrAD1cSb2f tVB0zWfr7iB2x0aMsHKeWMI+r5u+TjLwqCrpOQiqBFz8sOKLr7H2xWa6qEf2vBaeRS9+ FVmlwpnz9RMaLsmWCocFx+kvCCS/D0NR1t7jpte3GrmyJANEEqR7EIKoRS9zZ4Bw+4Tb QP0IuZdxL0+RKRGculZIDOVWuUxLZLrtdUv53vJ+nKO9rkGL5xnctfDxhwJslAltaNac qtTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530geW7fARqSJlEbLAjhGrnLga8MRhxJVF59uHVj/0y+5x5tLsJG k2cpcuX01jRyeTqyt67M6J2R99TS/2IPyA/NtKYkJn3XYj1yyA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz1aCSOE6eyQyoBmxa0FvH/y33XVavNixRReOPboBt3/0SfIHNCym6aHajHb4HabjnnKHcQrf057SYI82/yGlk= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:a418:: with SMTP id p24mr12164698ljn.205.1600450711394; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 10:38:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009171404.08HE4fZj007939@slippy.cwsent.com> <4d2c3d9dd633ed9a264cf3675dcbb4386f11ada3.camel@freebsd.org> <20200917194941.GY4213@funkthat.com> <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <0ab6a75e6b821058a2b939447a8e499196ec2388.camel@freebsd.org> From: Nick Wolff Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 13:38:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating ftpd in the FreeBSD base system? To: Ian Lepore Cc: John-Mark Gurney , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtLfL3DVFz3bKg X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.10 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.029]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.041]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::236:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.03)[-0.029]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:38:35 -0000 On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 3:54 PM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 12:49 -0700, John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Ian Lepore wrote this message on Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 09:01 -0600: > > > On Thu, 2020-09-17 at 18:43 +0400, Gleb Popov wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 6:05 PM Cy Schubert < > > > > Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've been advocating removing FTP (and HTTP) from libfetch as > > > > > well. > > > > > People > > > > > should be using HTTPS only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't this a bit too much? I often find myself in need to > > > > download > > > > something starting with "http://" or "ftp://" and use fetch for > > > > this. > > > > > > Indeed, we have products which rely on this ability in libfetch and > > > we > > > have to keep supporting them for many many years to come. > > > > > > I hate it when someone imperiously declares [For security reasons] > > > "People should/shouldn't be using ______". You have no idea what > > > the > > > context is, and thus no ability to declare what should or shouldn't > > > be > > > used in that context. For example, two embedded systems talking to > > > each other over a point to point link within a sealed device are > > > not > > > concerned about man in the middle attacks or other modern internet > > > threats. > > > > And I really dislike when people want to make sure that their unique > > case that less than a percent of people would every hit blocks the > > security improvements for the majority of people... > > > > I've given up on a number of security improvements in FreeBSD because > > of this attitude... > > > > Good. Because what you call "improvements" I would probably call > "Imposing policy rather than providing tools." > > I've don't complain about making defaults the safest choices available. > I complain about removing options completely because they're unsafe in > some circumstances according to some people. > > -- Ian > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Even making defaults the "safest choice" I have any issue with. Security is a balance between risk, environment and usability. The "Safest choice" is turning your box off or cutting your internet connection. Now hardening as an option in a global config file for whatever program I have no issue with just need to be very careful on what is hardened by default and what is exposed as an option for hardening to those who need it. Also as a reminder just because something has a hardening option that is disabled by default that doesn't mean the project ever needs to enable it by default. Sometimes we add those options and have a migration path/timeline to them being enabled by default sometimes we just add those options for those who need them whether by policy, environment, or paranoia. So a global option in a config file or ENV variable to disable unencrypted protocols by default is fine. It just should Also in defense of http is it allows caching. If you are downloading a signed resource to 10, 100 or 1,000,000 boxes and don't care who knows caching maybe a very helpful option. --Nick "darkfiberiru" Wolff From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 18:53:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF873E9F4F for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:53:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtNJf4jJFz3fnB for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:53:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id z2so5959723qtv.12 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:53:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mime-version :content-disposition; bh=ubEq7prTEGPw6aP9P6aCEnfpjBCerynHdb89KeHoHao=; b=k6pUjja1a+YVgAN/Bet6d1j9UmhyfUrm7TwtH8gwqQNuU3giwX2diQhfvLEXrBCAEq P++Zb974/sQtUrL8jccsp15DgKC9FmJ68zdDsHerjBz7DOI7X/UrAKbgsRxYFMeVCjMx kXbtgQ6u7PVUqPJJb5DWytQz57+DET/hduu4qJp9FGbDrwQUsGwcan5+cE7LB+AkochT A/C76SonX9JfnQsLXlSUuuwhoYxe5Zp3U8zIk38XW0MlXH9cJXxTZAGJ2WZ6zEsJZYFS OxR2WkOil6mNVChABz048i8U+3CcGjKZBE1X4TDDOZ24uh4PtN2SojaH458QMZDhkpCe PVQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533szi47ndFjEFJSJD61Rk9Yuo2B+H2RDMx7MLceI483aCL/H4oc TM/7KkRa+x+PerUZWoRCWxI53MqmuOYcWW8Am+JBWBFqrwzyTX43RBbgpkRKnqcZFCZ+t0uavAs Xb8BlNzkoxWB/bNRQ2rPGbNueQGSMIhndVyELlLn3Gwrq8QFWPD+P5uXc7Zxa8lWTZ/d8ifNAAS uMOANO4zGqlw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzBbd2IVYL5O6LTUzTDlFiEmG6tj/1nTNDfENX1956ORYWKAl1FhGzlbzPwR5IJjZ7eFsnocQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:31d4:: with SMTP id i20mr35437520qte.179.1600455201564; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd (pool-100-16-231-224.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net. [100.16.231.224]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g19sm2632996qka.84.2020.09.18.11.53.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 14:53:19 -0400 From: Shawn Webb To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Documentation regarding NFSv4 Message-ID: <20200918185319.7o27ciyviwdyhr7v@mutt-hbsd> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 13.0-CURRENT-HBSD FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT-HBSD X-PGP-Key: http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xFF2E67A277F8E1FA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lrjvvgdofaoalzmp" Content-Disposition: inline X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtNJf4jJFz3fnB X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.81 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hardenedbsd.org:s=google]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.06)[-1.056]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.07)[-1.072]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hardenedbsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hardenedbsd.org:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::832:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.58)[-0.581]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[100.16.231.224:received] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:53:23 -0000 --lrjvvgdofaoalzmp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, It appears the Handbook and the nfsv4 manpages don't really agree, leading to some confusion as to how to properly set up an NFSv4 server on FreeBSD. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD GPG Key ID: 0xFF2E67A277F8E1FA GPG Key Fingerprint: D206 BB45 15E0 9C49 0CF9 3633 C85B 0AF8 AB23 0FB2 https://git-01.md.hardenedbsd.org/HardenedBSD/pubkeys/src/branch/master/Sha= wn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --lrjvvgdofaoalzmp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAl9lAhwACgkQ/y5nonf4 4fq6Pw/8CcuglSyuLX0Isn2GFQhyE31taWLjsFAhH3NqZVmNsDOkKKenzRkpyMu/ /GGtexv9wH16k9lQvDti0GWlhzcx5DxJ1uUPfj++FASLVdsFKPxqQNe+kKqre+2c 2idrG1nNHigRHp/o6L4ujJ3ZD9slCVwMhOY60rNkOmCYkm46dDWmLd4RFqqIQPWv R68gID3lmG76YelVPKrm0+i2E2WRaBJ9qPdtbgxYvk0W7CWH/OhgC7rcr0jO710A nHJvsASXo6UvRjcnStPZQADZSNcvrKJFzG9yV44qfXGM53vnAaBzhPIN3MWXuoyU xnUULqAD7pewsrtBnQ6dRloCY2PnLXlBssQLXzOsK5nxjdhcZZ8H2ntUMrJ1KRcR A2d9yX35YMBV3Bhn991SYsccBuILcLE1YnFhKjCK0DnGYvdcD2VP7v7sxfiwuOCi 7g2kTYNuVyuntGwReDsc6SFYTocfNvJEkEMb44U7qTPguSj4pElL+TzHP5j/O7SU a7k4hJ/AIROBbDn1Pjoq64aKgamm0cfkIu7vDsOq7RSpdCA+6s1SEKDvvtnToOBu pWIKnkNo1M2Ji5dJcPm9KtA6DKvaKmPGQfPb50otLlQBSoxevZS2dGG4kNWfNyMv Ge6Y1FZr5k1cC5Y+jNhHA9LxrVrK3bW1ab+z7+2gE54UaSN7nNM= =Rz7h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lrjvvgdofaoalzmp-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 19:07:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2A93ECA12; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 19:07:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtNcl6Q01z3ycK; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 19:07:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 08IJ7WV8011137; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 12:07:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 12:07:32 -0700 From: Chris To: freebsd-git Cc: freebsd-current , freebsd-hackers Subject: on moving freebsd from svn to git; would this be of any help? User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtNcl6Q01z3ycK X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 19:07:20 -0000 While contemplating a massive re-tooling job ahead to accommodate any/all changes when freebsd fully lands in git. I ran across this[1][2] and wondered if it may be of any assistance for the task of those involved in the migration process @freebsd. 1) http://catb.org/esr/reposurgeon/ 2) https://gitlab.com/esr/reposurgeon FTR I'm unaffiliated with the project. It just looked like it might be of interest. --Chris From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 20:04:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A8F3EE29F; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:04:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f178.google.com (mail-il1-f178.google.com [209.85.166.178]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtPv04nkYz437h; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:04:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f178.google.com with SMTP id y9so7548366ilq.2; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 13:04:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AWoA4esb+iobpC8k+sYLXAReMN1k+Oi+IJqV53qUN00=; b=gCtA7H1mJYgCs3kj1RG4BK2kJr9QvlB6YeRZM60AfR0pdnmaxiAm2RUz8JnrYwqs4P WfAictp7OFGTLHqM35AfO8aZvJr5I5ntx2jo5jZ2S4f4mISzlkEGmsxBTKwwk598YPQB yiLZ+epHXnAouSLWf+etsbjfVqwbzfYGJZTQkBHsTZqoVHMRBQTMNPKgF/Gxy1FS5OoF rmp6/Qn0PN0dCEUlIzRAmm5Mk66r5phtE86ZJkIsododMsqLw2IcWCOoJ2xQQBzozrk5 LSFWZcf6wLjMEaqS00o1cQM6qKC5YZ94iMOMa8TX8HKzcn+VXYClc3xGLcRNDmZ+mGp+ jMGA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532qFYpauUD7U8zfYaP+7DPyhXnnHZ8dfAJi9cgEBrIZC2LA4WRl 1QAeuVMLR6sFWIW2WHBK45okdwY0xfBUbf+WlnMzEXL8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyN+l8aKYfvwa0VLIapIwZUlAfJhAdp0GfvgSqwr9I50G02XBO6k4j1kiLpu57v6Ge/tP4/ew4rSDQVJ0dD6ZU= X-Received: by 2002:a92:ba0a:: with SMTP id o10mr12800139ili.100.1600459483404; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 13:04:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 16:04:31 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: on moving freebsd from svn to git; would this be of any help? To: Chris Cc: freebsd-git , freebsd-current , freebsd-hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtPv04nkYz437h X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.03 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[carpeddiem]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.035]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.02)[-0.017]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.166.178:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.976]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.166.178:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-git,freebsd-current,freebsd-hackers]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:04:45 -0000 On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 at 15:07, Chris wrote: > > While contemplating a massive re-tooling job ahead to accommodate > any/all changes when freebsd fully lands in git. I ran across this[1][2] > and wondered if it may be of any assistance for the task of those > involved in the migration process @freebsd. It doesn't solve any of the problems we have now; the actual svn to git conversion via svn2git works fine. Open issues are with the svn repository / mirrors, and finishing up process documentation. > 1) http://catb.org/esr/reposurgeon/ > 2) https://gitlab.com/esr/reposurgeon > > FTR I'm unaffiliated with the project. It just looked like it might be of > interest. > > --Chris > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 23:21:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B5E3F34D1; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:21:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-QB1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr660082.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.66.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtVG8220Jz4Hth; 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mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uoguelph.ca; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uoguelph.ca; dkim=pass header.d=uoguelph.ca; arc=none Received: from YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:b01:24::27) by YTXPR0101MB1213.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:b00:9::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3391.19; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:21:34 +0000 Received: from YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::687f:d85a:a0a3:bd20]) by YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::687f:d85a:a0a3:bd20%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3391.014; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:21:34 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Shawn Webb , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Documentation regarding NFSv4 Thread-Topic: Documentation regarding NFSv4 Thread-Index: AQHWje0ADCDVEU1HgUOgviWAKyD/+KlvBqx2 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:21:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200918185319.7o27ciyviwdyhr7v@mutt-hbsd> In-Reply-To: <20200918185319.7o27ciyviwdyhr7v@mutt-hbsd> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dbbb37fa-c086-4b19-c162-08d85c29957f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: YTXPR0101MB1213: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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This does not "export any file= systems"=0A= (that is done by other lines in /etc/exports exactly the same as NFSv3).= =0A= However, it does tell the NFSv4 server where the "root" is for NFSv4 clie= nts.=0A= (ie. Where in the server's file system tree a "nfs-server:/" done by an N= FSv4 client=0A= ends up.)=0A= - Add nfsv4_server_enable=3D"YES" to your /etc/rc.conf.=0A= =0A= Note that, since NFSv4 does allow a mount to cross server mount points (unl= ike=0A= NFSv3), a client will normally only do a single mount at or near the "root"= =0A= specified by the "V4:" line (see "man exports").=0A= =0A= If you explain what inconsistencies are in the docs, maybe someone could=0A= fix them.=0A= =0A= rick=0A= =0A= Thanks,=0A= =0A= --=0A= Shawn Webb=0A= Cofounder / Security Engineer=0A= HardenedBSD=0A= =0A= GPG Key ID: 0xFF2E67A277F8E1FA=0A= GPG Key Fingerprint: D206 BB45 15E0 9C49 0CF9 3633 C85B 0AF8 AB23 0FB2=0A= https://git-01.md.hardenedbsd.org/HardenedBSD/pubkeys/src/branch/master/Sha= wn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc=0A= From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 23:28:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD953F3968; 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Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:28:51 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Shawn Webb , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Documentation regarding NFSv4 Thread-Topic: Documentation regarding NFSv4 Thread-Index: AQHWje0ADCDVEU1HgUOgviWAKyD/+KlvBqx2gAADBWU= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:28:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200918185319.7o27ciyviwdyhr7v@mutt-hbsd>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cb2291d0-0c70-4b59-e48a-08d85c2a99f1 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: YTBPR01MB3440: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: ssibZLzmYvPJtuERcR0W2s9HdqvUZMtFPrLdeiKfTqYNuI4xL6yPsE72mYusyYF54b04hPu9lGUBdoU181xBKBWWk4An8Egp2CU1pfw52Sw3kjnPFA6soFwIpi3ljkaCJQfLj8stiXJzfEEz6MviHNITzTiWTJFlcWtM+BJJ5PBFKQBjp9O88T//EYktHMfjqi1HS+dbDqDNihalY9cYUwhzuM4A1mkM/YNPdhr/WwMUa5ONreNalZy/JjCJkisvpuBXmLzkNCNys/I/VBqa11t7/tgeFTJcuO5c5p/CXIYBNRpX1EuHnjGGuXWBgwKRrjIqSNsWxHKEFcwzrecQL57CkPcag+hGROM8Lx9L+Of3XCNSiI6o0YXXCe4RrpZdYhiAkXv6k8j3H9PyXYfpsg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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If using AUTH_SYS (not kerberos), then you have the choice of running "nfsuserd" or setting these two sysctls to 1. vfs.nfs.enable_uidtostring=3D1 vfs.nfsd.enable_stringtouid=3D1 --> This makes the server just handle id#s (uid, gid) as numbers in a string. (This is the default for Linux these days although it was ' frowned upon in the early days.) Running nfsuserd maps uid, gid numbers to/from names using the password and group databases. This must be used for Kerberos mounts. Without the above properly configured, you'll see lots of files owned by "nobody" on the client mounts. rick ________________________________________ From: Rick Macklem Sent: Friday, September 18, 2020 7:21 PM To: Shawn Webb; freebsd-current@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Documentation regarding NFSv4 Shawn Webb wrote: >Hey all, > >It appears the Handbook and the nfsv4 manpages don't really agree, >leading to some confusion as to how to properly set up an NFSv4 server >on FreeBSD. > >Any guidance would be appreciated. 1 - I never look at the Handbook, but do try and maintain the man pages. Since you didn't explain the specifics related to your confusion, all = I can say is that the man pages are probably more correct. Assuming you already have a running NFSv3 NFS server, all you need to do is: - Add a V4: line to your /etc/exports files. This does not "export any file= systems" (that is done by other lines in /etc/exports exactly the same as NFSv3). However, it does tell the NFSv4 server where the "root" is for NFSv4 clie= nts. (ie. Where in the server's file system tree a "nfs-server:/" done by an N= FSv4 client ends up.) - Add nfsv4_server_enable=3D"YES" to your /etc/rc.conf. Note that, since NFSv4 does allow a mount to cross server mount points (unl= ike NFSv3), a client will normally only do a single mount at or near the "root" specified by the "V4:" line (see "man exports"). If you explain what inconsistencies are in the docs, maybe someone could fix them. rick Thanks, -- Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD GPG Key ID: 0xFF2E67A277F8E1FA GPG Key Fingerprint: D206 BB45 15E0 9C49 0CF9 3633 C85B 0AF8 AB23 0FB2 https://git-01.md.hardenedbsd.org/HardenedBSD/pubkeys/src/branch/master/Sha= wn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 00:08:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C1F3F47A8 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 00:08:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rcarter@pinyon.org) Received: from h2.pinyon.org (h2.pinyon.org [65.101.20.170]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtWHx3CRhz4L6T for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 00:08:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rcarter@pinyon.org) Received: from [10.0.10.15] (unknown [10.0.10.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by h2.pinyon.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 871C420CC1 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:08:05 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Documentation regarding NFSv4 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20200918185319.7o27ciyviwdyhr7v@mutt-hbsd> From: "Russell L. Carter" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 17:08:05 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/68.0 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.10 X-Rspamd-Server: h2 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtWHx3CRhz4L6T X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.28 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[pinyon.org:s=dkim]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.05)[-1.045]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.24)[0.243]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[pinyon.org:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[pinyon.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.975]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.101.0.0/18, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 00:08:14 -0000 On 2020-09-18 16:28, Rick Macklem wrote: > Oh, and I forgot to mention name<->id# mapping. > If using AUTH_SYS (not kerberos), then you have the > choice of running "nfsuserd" or setting these two sysctls to 1. > vfs.nfs.enable_uidtostring=1 > vfs.nfsd.enable_stringtouid=1 > --> This makes the server just handle id#s (uid, gid) as numbers in > a string. (This is the default for Linux these days although it was > ' frowned upon in the early days.) > > Running nfsuserd maps uid, gid numbers to/from names using the > password and group databases. This must be used for Kerberos mounts. > > Without the above properly configured, you'll see lots of files owned > by "nobody" on the client mounts. Those sysctls are interesting. I wasn't aware of them and so I run nfsuserd. What do they do, practically speaking? My understanding, likely wrong, is that nfsuserd should allow different uid/gid server->client mappings, possibly different for different clients. However I still had to sync uid/gids across machines even though they are all running nfsuserd. Didn't disable nfsuserd because... system is working... DFWI. Anyway, naked FreeBSD-stable nfsv4 is rock solid in a clamped down arena with a variety of FreeBSD and Debian clients. Kudos. Thanks, Russell > rick > > ________________________________________ > From: Rick Macklem From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Sep 18 18:54:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86AE83EA644 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from core-secretary@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BtNLH35Jpz3gKM for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from core-secretary@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 6A0B83EA5E8; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D113EA690 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from core-secretary@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-ej1-f47.google.com (mail-ej1-f47.google.com [209.85.218.47]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtNLH0QVxz3gHD for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:54:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from core-secretary@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-ej1-f47.google.com with SMTP id q13so9432407ejo.9 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:54:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:reply-to:mime-version:date:subject:to :message-id; bh=abn9ARBjzQPCrhbyxtzaudRvYx6YDDIo3vxCazTgdWY=; b=p8t5lwvHcEdtEgfn+jcgQtQqSGALNg7wIUmRzdunuzrXHSIMekxnkJ/0MBDNNlc2yF XcmCPY0W92HEW8ODI9OiH/hQvbLJ3pAtrRUrU7ek49Kcu1NbKtjmaloqDLmMy26zUtaS +u9QBy+yF7rO2VqpcqEUTOI8Vf+CqCiHrChfs6tkwkE90dAlkTtL+JS6lw75oJlH27Op 1T619DFBDH6RP+9E0GIeP5sYvrcNla75TIxBZlFxEUadfvllabhbDyyQ+zRiZM0FzU4y QoG0FaaMOjZKU4bsgjMeylWy3wtCKDNKmiZhj933N4U2e27IvpzqP73qCj2vl32S0sMy Edgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531MnBpzlv0H19ZxYKUCLpQf11zpbakydihlEc62fXO1fafhZIkc bdCfXcLkO2xTDJfz4QzVLD9awX+g X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy0ADZsivnIjV933aIdKBIMwu4BmbsxVtSfTSwvuXbKYWQY62cbM8IWmAB8m4IlD4aJG7R7wA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:37b:: with SMTP id rs27mr39589119ejb.0.1600455285651; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.bofh.network (mx.bofh.network. [2001:19f0:5001:2b77:5400:2ff:fe7b:aa2c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w8sm2852902ejo.117.2020.09.18.11.54.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 18 Sep 2020 11:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2402:54c0:ffff:ffff:c907:1958:7f11:cde0] ( [2402:54c0:ffff:ffff:c907:1958:7f11:cde0]) by mx.bofh.network (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e95980be (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:54:42 +0000 (UTC) From: FreeBSD Core Team Secretary Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D16C193A-390A-44CD-A20C-00F53AA0455F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Reply-To: FreeBSD Core Team Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 00:54:34 +0600 Subject: Core Team Office Hours To: announce@freebsd.org Message-Id: <3603C4BC-9BED-4F74-8140-2BC38BB8F104@freebsd.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtNLH0QVxz3gHD X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 00:49:02 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:54:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D16C193A-390A-44CD-A20C-00F53AA0455F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Based on the continuity of our last CORE Office Hours The FreeBSD CORE = Team would like to invite you all to a virtual town hall meeting. The = session is timed at 1800 UTC on 23rd September, 2020. See = https://wiki.freebsd.org/OfficeHours for details on how to join either a = live stream to watch, or an interactive meeting to participate. A link = to this agenda (and any updates) will be there as well. A similar = session is planned on the next week and will be announced soon targeting = the other part of the world. We=E2=80=99ll be discussing the following topics and taking general = questions at the end. We=E2=80=99ll have a moderator who will help call = on people in the meeting to ask questions (or to offer comments) as well = as relay relevant questions from IRC. * Git Transition -- To raise awareness, Ed Maste and Warner Losh will be = giving a brief presentation about the state of the project=E2=80=99s = planned transition to git. They can answer a few questions here, but are = also planning an entire office hours on the git transition (tentatively = scheduled in two weeks). * Recruiting for project teams -- When a new core team takes over, = it=E2=80=99s a good time to assess the needs of each of the teams that = we have running different aspects of the project, such as administering = our machines and helping keep FreeBSD secure. One common theme is the = need for more help. We=E2=80=99ll discuss what teams there are, and make = a recruiting pitch and answer any questions. * Core TODO List publishing -- To continue the openness initiative, the = core team will start publishing out TODO list. This will be in addition = to the normal meeting minutes and other openness ideas. The new core = team would love to hear from the community how to improve our = communications. * Discuss proposed terminology changes -- The prior core team had sent = out a proposal about how to handle shifts in language based on societal = change. The initial message was poorly written and didn=E2=80=99t strike = the right tone. We=E2=80=99ll discuss it, the underlying issue and how = the new core team plans on doing things better. * General Questions -- Time permitting, the new core team can answer any = other questions or concerns the community might have. Thanks! We look forward to meeting you. Regards, Moin (bofh), with core-secretary@ hat on --Apple-Mail=_D16C193A-390A-44CD-A20C-00F53AA0455F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEES2Tp4L3ps+zAa1xm2MjIO0nybxcFAl9lAmpfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDRC NjRFOUUwQkRFOUIzRUNDMDZCNUM2NkQ4QzhDODNCNDlGMjZGMTcACgkQ2MjIO0ny bxcYcg/+O7RFPQMDckP3Epmoq3bHNhTDLq+MIGq9jWMNe7j6kEyzpWOWsr8mqWCO GzKCIGippZ7sDaEV+dKbZjV3pNztO0sh0X5a0lQrd6CKV32GuhvJnUmGxwDctgP2 ePSZu6H9aXeReiMwIb69MOU+p42pt9lJEIafS9HSiWizlO4BVKnkX4Q09fvVpD2A XEZtih1Q+N98YbzQmNH1dynpvrNrRwcD9fjVBK6soFjyspp3NC9T81+yIvmRGyxo 2TY2ijV+7EtTmREPmOm3RNA3diOKMprCfLcp1Iqgvk0THNovbAqdqv9hrIAmqSSz VGVTqFrTpQ9KvXzEosB96TKSQmy4LgmN7/KjKqZhPWyWvtXWJlsAyB5KWFASDpN6 8T6FnYplHGwamllAjLtqteug55JzqFT4FwIFhimhH9NIKlmeuz/MiyF4+eWzm9Jo 7QOyfNqY7nODwffNpbhSXtSwCS0rQeyrmZe2XPlC/ZLLA0FW1jadhoq+KxBiewqp 9f3SElzH9t7UQX884Hfpec4D2aERpEtvRvzvyjHxHNALDumjBjecBKqdA4MSfayc laK7r/654ABxZ8favBy2CUGeWuZOAAcL1qUshJ71XpclKh56NXyiYvqmg7HhwFIr UxpGWSwyJ1NNc00ZIxlrCGguBZbecIWpC0XrkHBais/qMPjDl4M= =uy5v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D16C193A-390A-44CD-A20C-00F53AA0455F-- From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 01:29:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9426C3F6EE6 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 01:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-QB1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr660087.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.66.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtY5f5GQCz4Q6B for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 01:29:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=dbvmuK1LUefOpaD5FHt3oB4ra7HkDjXYEXdAEP2QfxR1AQGSzXV7zrzLxdxLDoXwfD9arNhCDz5JKrdxsqY+htVDuKBibPA0JBJ/VIx2HUOr3cfdzleLvGCXAdkYjNnPNYrjr5ko+l1yZM7Y3v0y9Fin4tPv2aEBJ3SmEq0g7u8NXO92KS56b5lzZXG1uy7Samk+RSLGCLJ6Pou8vulV9LplzwKTNMUa90+K7R438LQssndLuFQ0yITpr2ftJcxCWS/T94d2t+a9lIUqbDNFUNdUG15aXwk7NdzlxPIvrT+8Ls+Id0oH5KgN7J19esV0JJ1ibWXoQAlnS6i0LL8G+g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=RrJgLnx958G7YO0/jKZWQevpYcKtAJ8fHm+kR29uJ9Y=; b=nJDmlGhEIYfRsArw35drElHZ5jlE6xUCE1QiQrpBYxGxX3vV2c1jxF2n4awdzJfpWdBL/tZUY+HRxJ5G5b7JhNU9hushT/0B7PSWJLe0R7imF8ybZGNj1Gb563UdUOQjAjpwtALNIwPrf9AsSbvYs+wO1/dFQ+WX9+qPKlE3OX6Qn9JN7CqwdmFJju2pnJchyKAV8+92/mj7i0Wb4pOKx4Y895e6FIkqOyH9yRCV529mmtT7ZNOvDlAUBileUaHG6sGmFJ4OataNZP6HSyBqndIHbuXqqTAK7noMH08PyLHE3hNDa09IXlt83CGdAuTwJB/CDJUpIQgiqzSN01KeFQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uoguelph.ca; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uoguelph.ca; dkim=pass header.d=uoguelph.ca; arc=none Received: from YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:b01:24::27) by YTBPR01MB2912.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:b01:18::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3391.19; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 01:29:25 +0000 Received: from YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::687f:d85a:a0a3:bd20]) by YTBPR01MB3966.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::687f:d85a:a0a3:bd20%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3391.014; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 01:29:24 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: "Russell L. 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Carter wrote:=0A= >On 2020-09-18 16:28, Rick Macklem wrote:=0A= > > Oh, and I forgot to mention name<->id# mapping.=0A= > > If using AUTH_SYS (not kerberos), then you have the=0A= > > choice of running "nfsuserd" or setting these two sysctls to 1.=0A= > > vfs.nfs.enable_uidtostring=3D1=0A= > > vfs.nfsd.enable_stringtouid=3D1=0A= > > --> This makes the server just handle id#s (uid, gid) as numbers in=0A= > > a string. (This is the default for Linux these days although=0A= it was=0A= > > ' frowned upon in the early days.)=0A= > >=0A= > > Running nfsuserd maps uid, gid numbers to/from names using the=0A= > > password and group databases. This must be used for Kerberos mounts.=0A= > >=0A= > > Without the above properly configured, you'll see lots of files owned= =0A= > > by "nobody" on the client mounts.=0A= >=0A= >Those sysctls are interesting. I wasn't aware of them and so I run=0A= >nfsuserd. What do they do, practically speaking? My understanding,=0A= >likely wrong, is that nfsuserd should allow different uid/gid=0A= >server->client mappings, possibly different for different clients.=0A= Well, in theory, yes.=0A= In practice, that never really happened.=0A= When NFSv4 was being designed, putting uid/gid numbers in file attributes= =0A= was felt to be too POSIX centric, so in file attributes, they are defined= =0A= as a string of the form "user@domain" or "group@domain".=0A= What never happened was a good definition of what "domain" was supposed=0A= to be or how clients/servers would handle multiple domains.=0A= --> So, only one "domain" normally works and it is usually the same=0A= as the domain part of the machine's hostname.=0A= =0A= Linux got tired of doing the number->string and string->number=0A= mapping (awkward for NFS mounted root file systems, since the mapping=0A= daemon is not running right away), so they switched to just doing=0A= "uid" and "gid" (ie. the numbers in strings).=0A= --> By setting the sysctls (both for the server), you run Linux compatible= =0A= and don't need to run the nfsuserd (unless you use the -manage-gids= =0A= option on it).=0A= =0A= These days Linux is the de-facto standard (unless you are using Windows).= =0A= =0A= >However I still had to sync uid/gids across machines even though they=0A= >are all running nfsuserd. Didn't disable nfsuserd because... system=0A= >is working... DFWI.=0A= Well, user authentication is a different story...=0A= - For Kerberos, the kerberos user principal is translated to POSIX=0A= credentials by the gssd daemon and you don't need a consistent=0A= uid, gid space, but do need to run nfsuserd, since the "uid" and "gid"=0A= strings don't work.=0A= - Otherwise, you are using AUTH_SYS, which means the RPC authenticator=0A= has a uid and gid list in it and the credentials are derived from that.= =0A= (If you run "nfsuserd -manage-gids", then the uid is used to acquire=0A= a list of gids on the server from its group database. Otherwise, the=0A= list of gids in the RPC authenticator is used.)=0A= --> You need a uniform uid space (and uniform gid space unless you=0A= are using "nfsuserd -manage-gids".=0A= =0A= Confusing, yes.=0A= =0A= rick=0A= =0A= Anyway, naked FreeBSD-stable nfsv4 is rock solid in a clamped down=0A= arena with a variety of FreeBSD and Debian clients. Kudos.=0A= =0A= Thanks,=0A= Russell=0A= =0A= > rick=0A= >=0A= > ________________________________________=0A= > From: Rick Macklem =0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list=0A= https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current=0A= To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= =0A= =0A= From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 05:31:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDF73FB2C5 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 05:31:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtfTC19rTz4cDN; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 05:31:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id n13so7973603edo.10; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 22:31:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZDiokWqMTNbJWISeMj4zTxD7FbbWNfboN0UPjkmP0OU=; b=dXVEU0dQflqZGRG8euDLR8iF5TwvjkfGrvSsGc4sYVlxtGbpGmzsS3e7wrHoEL2D7k 68m6Q6ytp4BKgoE8dbE3UxtAF6pc0nYk24DXr9d+UWJQyQ3ScTpiG7FoC4Z6wd+SMDsW lMdGnEkoMJcN5X2c1uZaX+cPIYtZ3BkZT78+Q8jwW/Kb/8MWUClRNCQyGGr1JCTnsg/z Lfju9Q9Ks2Yp1hzHbjsDl4P0MNSuYdxDsCCB1RDnz1yR5RBHjUpQ2BJh0HY7RcLcA2b1 daBrwnwiMcV1QxHSpKSAO2ZMBdrD0XfSkTrtygW0ZqRSPIESUAZE0Seuj4webV7uANvF mcUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53381+z+uxouPchzgqQ+f1jEn3yiYv3mjfK1MhgJKV789a6IWlDo UhadnhEwp//CrnDeeGp6geIgGeYf9A3qahH593/xysY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwrxPEahYljR/8USKS2F7lzXg41CgtrUZs4h5Z49XWXi3fao77xzYMVC2fDlP4KtEvEI1t+vQ2LQbXhs3aSn0M= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:ca4f:: with SMTP id j15mr38613447edt.233.1600493500774; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 22:31:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: From: Zaphod Beeblebrox Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 01:31:28 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Warner Losh Cc: Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtfTC19rTz4cDN X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.46 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.05)[-1.050]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52f:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.42)[-0.419]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 05:31:44 -0000 Hrm. Maybe what I hear others saying, tho, and not entirely being replied to is just a nice concise document of the why. What I hear you saying is that GIT has momentum and that it's popular... (and I accept that --- it is evidently true), but then I hear handwaving about features, but no list of features that are a clear win/loose. Certainly the only clear things a quick search turns up that seem relevant is that GIT is GPL2.0 and SVN is Apache2.0. This was enough for LLVM vs GCC and the repository is a core function, but I suppose not a necessary function for forked projects that can't abide, so... Anyways... some concise record of thoughts might calm the gnawing sensation in my gut... On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 4:19 PM Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:32 PM Chris wrote: > > > On 2020-09-03 11:33, Kristof Provost wrote: > > > On 3 Sep 2020, at 19:56, Chris wrote: > > >> Why was the intention to switch NOT announced as such MUCH sooner? > > >> > > > There was discussion about a possible switch to git on the freebsd-git > > > mailing > > > list as early as February 2017: > > > > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/2017-February/000092.html > > > > > > Ed gave a talk about FreeBSD and git back in 2018: > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8wQ88d85s4 > > > > > > The Git Transition Working group was mentioned in the quarterly status > > > reports a > > > year ago: > > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-07-2019-09.html > > > and > > > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-04-2019-06.html > > It appears to me that the references you make here all allude to > > _investigation_ > > of a _possibility_ as opposed to a _likelihood_, or an _inevitable_. > > IMHO a change as significant as this, which will require tossing years of > > tooling > > out the window, and an untold amount of _re_tooling. Should have created > an > > announcement at _least_ as significant as a new release gets on the > mailing > > lists. > > > > Yes. We've been working on this for years. We've been working on the > retooling in earnest for the last 6 months. We didn't make an announcement > because we wanted to have most of the pieces in place before we did that. > We've been doing the multi-year process for multiple years now. I'll also > point out that only the 'git' people showed. A number of other ideas were > suggested, but nothing else was stood up in a serious way (hg came the > closest to setting up an exporter). Since there was really no alternatives > being proposed to git, the process was less visible than if we'd had to > have had a hg vs git bake off. One step has lead to the next, with much > status reporting done for years. > > Subversion, btw, is not viable in the long run. The Apache foundation has > moved all its projects from svn to git. The velocity of features with svn > has diminished, and the number of CI/CT/etc tool sets that supported svn > well has been dropping over time. It's also been identified as a barrier to > entry for the project. Sure, some people climb the learning curve to learn > and understand it, but our survey data has shown that for every one that > did take the time, many others did not and simply didn't contribute. > > All of these issues have been discussed at length at conferences for the > last 5 years at least, with increasing levels of sophistication. Had there > been a BSDcan this year, I'd hoped to do a talk / BOF on this to help > socialize the ideas and to get people's feedback in real time (rather than > the slow and difficult process of getting it just in email). > > We've also talked about this in the BSD office hours and core election > forums over the past year. > > We've been rolling out the beta git repo now for 3 months. People have > found issues and we've been correcting them. We've heard from people that > their automated tooling needs a bit of transition time, so we'll be > exporting the stable/11 and stable/12 branches back into subversion (and > the release branches) after the conversion for the life of those > branches, though we don't plan on doing it for the current nor stable/13 > branches (due to the inefficiencies of git-svn, we need separate trees for > each, and each tree takes over a day to setup). We know we need some better > docs (we have some decent preliminary ones, but there's some missing bits > in them, and they are too long for more casual users). We need to spell out > different commit policies, how we're going to have to shift our "MFC" > terminology because that's very CVS/SVN centric (in git a merge means a > more specific thing than it does in svn. A cherry-pick in git is also > called a merge in svn, for example). We need to document to the developers > how to make the shift (this doc is mostly complete and was posted earlier, > though it could use some TLC). We'd hoped to have the documents done, the > policies written and vetted and have a good test system before making an > announcement. The last thing I wanted was to make a big announcement, only > to fail to deliver. And since each step of the process followed naturally, > there wasn't a clear A/B decision point where an announcement could have > been generated. We were getting close to publishing the final schedule when > this thread popped up, though, since it is finally feeling like it will be > real soon. I also had hoped to refine things so that existing developers > and users would have only minor disruption at the cut over because things > were well documented. > > And once we have all the basics of phase 1 (which is just going to be 'do > FreeBSD's current workflow in git, making minimal changes initially), we'll > start on the refinements to the workflow that will help improve the quality > of code, make it easier to integrate changes, etc. There's quite the > diversity of views and opinions in the larger open source world on what > best practices are here, with different projects doing different things. It > will take some time for the project to adopt these new tools, new work > flows and realize that in some cases a diversity of tools can be an > advantage rather than a liability. This may be especially true as the needs > of the ports tree differ from the needs of the src tree and what's optimal > for one may not work too well for the other. > > So a lot of my reaction in the past few days has been frustration that this > came up about a week before we had all our ducks in a row to talk about it > effectively and talk about the transition plans. I apologize for being so > snarky about it. > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 06:22:03 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4D03FBE51 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 06:22:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtgbF6mv4z4f5S for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 06:22:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id t138so8998323qka.0 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HVE1TW30k5lXL7TmBOZF6rs3sIEwjY3VYe4n0/k9paI=; b=tjySn9bynTq4oIub2fA/7licLQCoXSRpKRqkufK87Z6nRcAzAwGOaXcg8GXGL6T+Lx S8tDtt5D7Tebnmuf7cawBzFkAsVqfgDfH3TWizswKTTqaXmQ0oa6hQaH41DxnRypFxE3 uI7ttmcLmkfFJCMJBKWQ1RSIxh/ZmjE3ZV1EuwRcZW6VaN3WjxX9wbTIPjZBj27iIDeO cpRY9NWPJrJ6L6Kbo0zfcs/Kdg8YBQOali0JpK2XJG6qg6qwqxCSl0MzKtAlFCbaDImd FBX0nEiSeZiM/5oTSUVb+IY2cF0efNGDXrKuK9M4co6kXQyubLclDW61ncaVYhXFmPW8 YF/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531DgaC2Xw0YPpesck7D4pp/dovKPAERpwrdX3ALS604aPLubi8t Pjr4JznTdbCmbjkzmUsfFsF7erHoOtFNuCci3ANVbwYrT3ok2Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzBICh096PtLu8GIZ+Oc4z7OMFdpSU7r9XsR0BDNTRV+m37utvv5OMAUI6i+CbPmPXpue0alsV5lEqqM41WEWA= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:ee06:: with SMTP id i6mr19182643qkg.380.1600496520548; Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:22:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 00:21:48 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Zaphod Beeblebrox Cc: Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtgbF6mv4z4f5S X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.05 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.913]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.976]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.16)[-0.162]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::731:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 06:22:03 -0000 On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 11:31 PM Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: > Hrm. Maybe what I hear others saying, tho, and not entirely being replied > to is just a nice concise document of the why. What I hear you saying is > that GIT has momentum and that it's popular... (and I accept that --- it is > evidently true), but then I hear handwaving about features, but no list of > features that are a clear win/loose. > Apache has switched to git from subversion. They are the current caretakers of subversion so it's future is very much in doubt. Git have more support for newer CI tools than subversion. This will allow us, once things are fully phased in, to increase the quality of the code going into the tree, as well as greatly reduce build breakages and accidental regressions. Gits merging facilities are much better than subversion. You can more easily curate patches as well since git supports a rebase workflow. This allows cleaner patches that are logical bits for larger submissions. Subversion can't do this. Git can easily and robustly be mirrored. Subversion can be mirrored, but that mirroring is far from robust. One of the snags in the git migration is that different svn mirrors have different data than the main repo or each other. Git can cryptographically sign tags and commits. Subversion cannot. Mirroring also opens up more 3rd party plug ins. Gitlab can do some things, Github others, in terms of automated testing and continuous integration. Tests can be run when branches are pushed. Both these platforms have significant collaboration tools as well, which will support groups going off and creating new features for FreeBSD. While one can use these things to a limited degree, with subversion mirrored to github, the full power of these tools isn't fully realized without a conversion to git. All of this is before the skillset arguments are made about kids today just knowing git, but needing to learn subversion and how that has had increasing been a source of friction. This argument is the closest one to being handwavy since I've not voted the data showing the growing proportion of projects using git (iirc, it's 85% or 90%). These are the main ones. The three down sides are lack of $FreeBSD$ support and tags in general. Git has a weaker count of commits than subversion. And the BSDL git clients are less mature than the GPL'd ones. Certainly the only clear things a quick search turns up that seem relevant > is that GIT is GPL2.0 and SVN is Apache2.0. This was enough for LLVM vs > GCC and the repository is a core function, but I suppose not a necessary > function for forked projects that can't abide, so... > OPENBSD has got, which is being ported in earnest. It has an agreeable license. Anyways... some concise record of thoughts might calm the gnawing sensation > in my gut... > Yes. I've started doing a series of short videos explaining the change, why we are doing it and what to do in the new world order. I'll be doing blog entries as well as turning that material into handbook entries. I have some of those written. Does this help? Warner On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 4:19 PM Warner Losh wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:32 PM Chris wrote: >> >> > On 2020-09-03 11:33, Kristof Provost wrote: >> > > On 3 Sep 2020, at 19:56, Chris wrote: >> > >> Why was the intention to switch NOT announced as such MUCH sooner? >> > >> >> > > There was discussion about a possible switch to git on the freebsd-git >> > > mailing >> > > list as early as February 2017: >> > > >> > >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/2017-February/000092.html >> > > >> > > Ed gave a talk about FreeBSD and git back in 2018: >> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8wQ88d85s4 >> > > >> > > The Git Transition Working group was mentioned in the quarterly status >> > > reports a >> > > year ago: >> > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-07-2019-09.html >> > > and >> > > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-04-2019-06.html >> > It appears to me that the references you make here all allude to >> > _investigation_ >> > of a _possibility_ as opposed to a _likelihood_, or an _inevitable_. >> > IMHO a change as significant as this, which will require tossing years >> of >> > tooling >> > out the window, and an untold amount of _re_tooling. Should have >> created an >> > announcement at _least_ as significant as a new release gets on the >> mailing >> > lists. >> > >> >> Yes. We've been working on this for years. We've been working on the >> retooling in earnest for the last 6 months. We didn't make an announcement >> because we wanted to have most of the pieces in place before we did that. >> We've been doing the multi-year process for multiple years now. I'll also >> point out that only the 'git' people showed. A number of other ideas were >> suggested, but nothing else was stood up in a serious way (hg came the >> closest to setting up an exporter). Since there was really no alternatives >> being proposed to git, the process was less visible than if we'd had to >> have had a hg vs git bake off. One step has lead to the next, with much >> status reporting done for years. >> >> Subversion, btw, is not viable in the long run. The Apache foundation has >> moved all its projects from svn to git. The velocity of features with svn >> has diminished, and the number of CI/CT/etc tool sets that supported svn >> well has been dropping over time. It's also been identified as a barrier >> to >> entry for the project. Sure, some people climb the learning curve to learn >> and understand it, but our survey data has shown that for every one that >> did take the time, many others did not and simply didn't contribute. >> >> All of these issues have been discussed at length at conferences for the >> last 5 years at least, with increasing levels of sophistication. Had there >> been a BSDcan this year, I'd hoped to do a talk / BOF on this to help >> socialize the ideas and to get people's feedback in real time (rather than >> the slow and difficult process of getting it just in email). >> >> We've also talked about this in the BSD office hours and core election >> forums over the past year. >> >> We've been rolling out the beta git repo now for 3 months. People have >> found issues and we've been correcting them. We've heard from people that >> their automated tooling needs a bit of transition time, so we'll be >> exporting the stable/11 and stable/12 branches back into subversion (and >> the release branches) after the conversion for the life of those >> branches, though we don't plan on doing it for the current nor stable/13 >> branches (due to the inefficiencies of git-svn, we need separate trees for >> each, and each tree takes over a day to setup). We know we need some >> better >> docs (we have some decent preliminary ones, but there's some missing bits >> in them, and they are too long for more casual users). We need to spell >> out >> different commit policies, how we're going to have to shift our "MFC" >> terminology because that's very CVS/SVN centric (in git a merge means a >> more specific thing than it does in svn. A cherry-pick in git is also >> called a merge in svn, for example). We need to document to the developers >> how to make the shift (this doc is mostly complete and was posted earlier, >> though it could use some TLC). We'd hoped to have the documents done, the >> policies written and vetted and have a good test system before making an >> announcement. The last thing I wanted was to make a big announcement, only >> to fail to deliver. And since each step of the process followed naturally, >> there wasn't a clear A/B decision point where an announcement could have >> been generated. We were getting close to publishing the final schedule >> when >> this thread popped up, though, since it is finally feeling like it will be >> real soon. I also had hoped to refine things so that existing developers >> and users would have only minor disruption at the cut over because things >> were well documented. >> >> And once we have all the basics of phase 1 (which is just going to be 'do >> FreeBSD's current workflow in git, making minimal changes initially), >> we'll >> start on the refinements to the workflow that will help improve the >> quality >> of code, make it easier to integrate changes, etc. There's quite the >> diversity of views and opinions in the larger open source world on what >> best practices are here, with different projects doing different things. >> It >> will take some time for the project to adopt these new tools, new work >> flows and realize that in some cases a diversity of tools can be an >> advantage rather than a liability. This may be especially true as the >> needs >> of the ports tree differ from the needs of the src tree and what's optimal >> for one may not work too well for the other. >> >> So a lot of my reaction in the past few days has been frustration that >> this >> came up about a week before we had all our ducks in a row to talk about it >> effectively and talk about the transition plans. I apologize for being so >> snarky about it. >> >> Warner >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org >> " >> > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 15:57:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8313E6298 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 15:57:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtwMf6d2fz45yG for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 15:57:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id e7so8163781qtj.11 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 08:57:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jfZ22P5XLGdNd4liD8vYdhpX+fgkpIXf4sL7r4hINX8=; b=N3kGb4ORdFV+1gwtImKB7hcteOW2j//TvVQdUd9I1mjeLA+a+oIUJI6WSAGBdW//hF fePZHxg8qedjW5GQe0xLbgVUVZtPfOsJIIDAVp05RABpg6DZZ8701kntTwCsmM7Qezlb ChMsZaM0NE+o4aE/GbZAzbLjsk/pEMWJzk97busuNT6ZzAHtJZqgq5j1GDRcXN6tH2cL MA5cmy9sUBMKecVj7BWqjtaw80rF/ss7ySWykrKGz9cAtbI0DpCP5TeLNt1PQAAdb8Im szuHUVJgbqkUyYwBqILnCM/bUjV/aQLXHzhCUHf3ydVQp7n83BX3l1OzLS74T2wQJhiA l4uQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lNzCazq98qDFmKwRMIleChrxrpH6TiZZzeVg2eTd1ZQiS4Qmj 92v3RBqw31p2K3WLvCN2GSvMAqusUl+2fOkHL0Bcdg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz61+wtHPRetRl5U31Oc6PmZymaha2tK0pcmDrgmBTZn63qcRLsLc9uN28lNTmE+58kMX2lpPQJATr6bTKp0Cc= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3261:: with SMTP id y30mr38712993qta.242.1600531068969; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 08:57:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:57:38 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Zaphod Beeblebrox Cc: Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtwMf6d2fz45yG X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.26 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.913]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.63)[0.629]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.976]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::836:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 15:57:51 -0000 I've taken the time to clean up this email (which I wrote on my phone last thing yesterday) and expand it a little. https://bsdimp.blogspot.com/2020/09/freebsd-subversion-to-git-migration.html is the result. I'm planning on doing a number of videos about this, as well as blog posts, FreeBSD Journal articles and handbook updates. Hopefully that will help explain why we're headed that way, as well as provide resources for what to do after the cut-over, what users can expect, etc. Warner On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 12:21 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 11:31 PM Zaphod Beeblebrox > wrote: > >> Hrm. Maybe what I hear others saying, tho, and not entirely being >> replied to is just a nice concise document of the why. What I hear you >> saying is that GIT has momentum and that it's popular... (and I accept that >> --- it is evidently true), but then I hear handwaving about features, but >> no list of features that are a clear win/loose. >> > > Apache has switched to git from subversion. They are the current > caretakers of subversion so it's future is very much in doubt. > > Git have more support for newer CI tools than subversion. This will allow > us, once things are fully phased in, to increase the quality of the code > going into the tree, as well as greatly reduce build breakages and > accidental regressions. > > Gits merging facilities are much better than subversion. You can more > easily curate patches as well since git supports a rebase workflow. This > allows cleaner patches that are logical bits for larger submissions. > Subversion can't do this. > > Git can easily and robustly be mirrored. Subversion can be mirrored, but > that mirroring is far from robust. One of the snags in the git migration is > that different svn mirrors have different data than the main repo or each > other. Git can cryptographically sign tags and commits. Subversion cannot. > > Mirroring also opens up more 3rd party plug ins. Gitlab can do some > things, Github others, in terms of automated testing and continuous > integration. Tests can be run when branches are pushed. Both these > platforms have significant collaboration tools as well, which will support > groups going off and creating new features for FreeBSD. While one can use > these things to a limited degree, with subversion mirrored to github, the > full power of these tools isn't fully realized without a conversion to git. > > All of this is before the skillset arguments are made about kids today > just knowing git, but needing to learn subversion and how that has had > increasing been a source of friction. This argument is the closest one to > being handwavy since I've not voted the data showing the growing proportion > of projects using git (iirc, it's 85% or 90%). > > These are the main ones. The three down sides are lack of $FreeBSD$ > support and tags in general. Git has a weaker count of commits than > subversion. And the BSDL git clients are less mature than the GPL'd ones. > > Certainly the only clear things a quick search turns up that seem relevant >> is that GIT is GPL2.0 and SVN is Apache2.0. This was enough for LLVM vs >> GCC and the repository is a core function, but I suppose not a necessary >> function for forked projects that can't abide, so... >> > > OPENBSD has got, which is being ported in earnest. It has an agreeable > license. > > Anyways... some concise record of thoughts might calm the gnawing >> sensation in my gut... >> > > Yes. I've started doing a series of short videos explaining the change, > why we are doing it and what to do in the new world order. I'll be doing > blog entries as well as turning that material into handbook entries. I have > some of those written. > > Does this help? > > Warner > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 4:19 PM Warner Losh wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:32 PM Chris wrote: >>> >>> > On 2020-09-03 11:33, Kristof Provost wrote: >>> > > On 3 Sep 2020, at 19:56, Chris wrote: >>> > >> Why was the intention to switch NOT announced as such MUCH sooner? >>> > >> >>> > > There was discussion about a possible switch to git on the >>> freebsd-git >>> > > mailing >>> > > list as early as February 2017: >>> > > >>> > >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/2017-February/000092.html >>> > > >>> > > Ed gave a talk about FreeBSD and git back in 2018: >>> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8wQ88d85s4 >>> > > >>> > > The Git Transition Working group was mentioned in the quarterly >>> status >>> > > reports a >>> > > year ago: >>> > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-07-2019-09.html >>> > > and >>> > > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-04-2019-06.html >>> > It appears to me that the references you make here all allude to >>> > _investigation_ >>> > of a _possibility_ as opposed to a _likelihood_, or an _inevitable_. >>> > IMHO a change as significant as this, which will require tossing years >>> of >>> > tooling >>> > out the window, and an untold amount of _re_tooling. Should have >>> created an >>> > announcement at _least_ as significant as a new release gets on the >>> mailing >>> > lists. >>> > >>> >>> Yes. We've been working on this for years. We've been working on the >>> retooling in earnest for the last 6 months. We didn't make an >>> announcement >>> because we wanted to have most of the pieces in place before we did that. >>> We've been doing the multi-year process for multiple years now. I'll also >>> point out that only the 'git' people showed. A number of other ideas were >>> suggested, but nothing else was stood up in a serious way (hg came the >>> closest to setting up an exporter). Since there was really no >>> alternatives >>> being proposed to git, the process was less visible than if we'd had to >>> have had a hg vs git bake off. One step has lead to the next, with much >>> status reporting done for years. >>> >>> Subversion, btw, is not viable in the long run. The Apache foundation has >>> moved all its projects from svn to git. The velocity of features with svn >>> has diminished, and the number of CI/CT/etc tool sets that supported svn >>> well has been dropping over time. It's also been identified as a barrier >>> to >>> entry for the project. Sure, some people climb the learning curve to >>> learn >>> and understand it, but our survey data has shown that for every one that >>> did take the time, many others did not and simply didn't contribute. >>> >>> All of these issues have been discussed at length at conferences for the >>> last 5 years at least, with increasing levels of sophistication. Had >>> there >>> been a BSDcan this year, I'd hoped to do a talk / BOF on this to help >>> socialize the ideas and to get people's feedback in real time (rather >>> than >>> the slow and difficult process of getting it just in email). >>> >>> We've also talked about this in the BSD office hours and core election >>> forums over the past year. >>> >>> We've been rolling out the beta git repo now for 3 months. People have >>> found issues and we've been correcting them. We've heard from people that >>> their automated tooling needs a bit of transition time, so we'll be >>> exporting the stable/11 and stable/12 branches back into subversion (and >>> the release branches) after the conversion for the life of those >>> branches, though we don't plan on doing it for the current nor stable/13 >>> branches (due to the inefficiencies of git-svn, we need separate trees >>> for >>> each, and each tree takes over a day to setup). We know we need some >>> better >>> docs (we have some decent preliminary ones, but there's some missing bits >>> in them, and they are too long for more casual users). We need to spell >>> out >>> different commit policies, how we're going to have to shift our "MFC" >>> terminology because that's very CVS/SVN centric (in git a merge means a >>> more specific thing than it does in svn. A cherry-pick in git is also >>> called a merge in svn, for example). We need to document to the >>> developers >>> how to make the shift (this doc is mostly complete and was posted >>> earlier, >>> though it could use some TLC). We'd hoped to have the documents done, the >>> policies written and vetted and have a good test system before making an >>> announcement. The last thing I wanted was to make a big announcement, >>> only >>> to fail to deliver. And since each step of the process followed >>> naturally, >>> there wasn't a clear A/B decision point where an announcement could have >>> been generated. We were getting close to publishing the final schedule >>> when >>> this thread popped up, though, since it is finally feeling like it will >>> be >>> real soon. I also had hoped to refine things so that existing developers >>> and users would have only minor disruption at the cut over because things >>> were well documented. >>> >>> And once we have all the basics of phase 1 (which is just going to be 'do >>> FreeBSD's current workflow in git, making minimal changes initially), >>> we'll >>> start on the refinements to the workflow that will help improve the >>> quality >>> of code, make it easier to integrate changes, etc. There's quite the >>> diversity of views and opinions in the larger open source world on what >>> best practices are here, with different projects doing different things. >>> It >>> will take some time for the project to adopt these new tools, new work >>> flows and realize that in some cases a diversity of tools can be an >>> advantage rather than a liability. This may be especially true as the >>> needs >>> of the ports tree differ from the needs of the src tree and what's >>> optimal >>> for one may not work too well for the other. >>> >>> So a lot of my reaction in the past few days has been frustration that >>> this >>> came up about a week before we had all our ducks in a row to talk about >>> it >>> effectively and talk about the transition plans. I apologize for being so >>> snarky about it. >>> >>> Warner >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >>> freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >> From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 16:05:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCF1D3E646E for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:05:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com (mail-pl1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BtwXy0Y6Mz46hm for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:05:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id d19so4622713pld.0 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=u+hxXlLBpSXkWkS0cum3SNpnQREV867Uwbc5tszp8OE=; b=i/Th4pX7IoZMQXzJ1/pl1SRT4/Q5FC81czGE4iTNWZLCROP6UPw+EqfCNeOYKTwWk3 P2jQ4s6qBYNw53Nqwds9w/gDjPkL/dLgC7g30RPWcW4XtePswZmcIAWmmr1eu4W6tPa4 nju9c4RND3y8KfdN041f6AH5wz6+3rYvMxxZd17tRlPBlG1QBFoNSph5FJV+ler+OIlG NRktiHg7XiT6YhkyzZ91Ygg9MGtsgvYcYstjEePV6Im4rRP2ZIDmVdMBw1Y4NZkLxVec k7gz7a2Vr6jq8zZ4M/a3FDhoRVIDoO0WADm9bhkqAFr4P4thpVw0xcRbAt0tGQ9LNvYX JK2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532NtxvlqKMfa2FmW0uuhNBZkEEPdC3b9dRzbLzOWpDAOPXeYX7L ScTe4NSIJ4guPPBGmsbqd6zdmg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy3jZohrb6DaXJub/BbB40+eJbFNUab66uZZkQrD8O6VXjiOk2Ji0juktyG4cSJEvbpY3RwpA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8481:b029:d2:c22:6bf6 with SMTP id c1-20020a1709028481b02900d20c226bf6mr5958603plo.75.1600531552167; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.113] (172-125-77-130.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [172.125.77.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j6sm7044033pfi.129.2020.09.19.09.05.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) Subject: Re: Plans for git From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:05:50 -0700 Cc: Zaphod Beeblebrox , Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BtwXy0Y6Mz46hm X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.37 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.31)[-0.306]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.012]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[bakul]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.05)[-1.051]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[iitbombay.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::629:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,bsdforge.com,freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:05:54 -0000 On Sep 18, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > These are the main ones. The three down sides are lack of $FreeBSD$ = support > and tags in general. Can a git hook be used for this? >=20 > Yes. I've started doing a series of short videos explaining the = change, why > we are doing it and what to do in the new world order. I'll be doing = blog > entries as well as turning that material into handbook entries. I have = some > of those written. >=20 > Does this help? It would be useful to describe the development model (e.g. how = major/minor features get added etc), how to maintain multiple local branches (e.g. release branch or -current) or working on more than one feature at a = time etc. Do you plan to move to something like the github review process? When is the cutover supposed to occur? The cgit-beta.FreeBSD.org and github trees are not identical the last time I looked (mainly in meta data). Any reason for not keeping them identical? I switched from the github tree to the cgit-beta tree. FWIW, I have used sccs, rcs, cvs, subversion, mercurial, git & a few = more. I have used git exclusively for the last few years. I felt more = comfortable with git once I understood the on-disk storage model. The Pro Git book = is pretty good for that & more. Thanks, Bakul= From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 16:22:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D5EA3E7063 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:22:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f194.google.com (mail-il1-f194.google.com [209.85.166.194]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Btww80PxCz488n; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:22:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f194.google.com with SMTP id t12so9442248ilh.3; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:22:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AHEOj46mYz114q0k/9kDjXcOA5R++JsGdZexJLKFLYI=; b=ZGOmyXum7KuLx5MulkwSHe7ad2tFrIJow8aDHi3utVHz2gic4Ln+E77cvaLxJNICbD jfhTQx/HFPklZPLn+XCJlAWYTnHo9GXzF6/U+biAPSFV/pTBSnqlP3evoAfVlf4+MlCB Y55rmLbti6H6fisudeOjK+EUmNYQMF+d6kSsXbaUEDEjoDdmPIUtQMUExnhLQOfuyRvK +dqhNdBcELgEoU8bjMbMsG6dtPi91cA1nh7FphRdfa0nsQ/1f9PtJyZtvv3+K5zgoooG HbwERLCrfEbNwCGtVaxtGAmL3jfRwc37UbivJLTfTWO1Z8oaRgjWYGohgvSDW/WX9QUP ez4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531u1KAZpWBF+4j20W5GrA43i5QdoUExYLjqN1kusz4VNLBZ+iMO 3zqc/0rFmwGtFJ5FBlWEqTfxEuq7liXUcvZvyhY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJweyV568J/VluCafGnNMvxuhi6P7Ls5vGX7UMAawkS2TcwwanmYQskhUSNh9cYafIUAJpJH8Ly868cbkrQxNtI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:8a2:: with SMTP id a2mr16260590ilt.98.1600532550490; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 09:22:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 12:22:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Bakul Shah Cc: Warner Losh , Zaphod Beeblebrox , Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Btww80PxCz488n X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.98 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.920]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[bsdimp.com,gmail.com,bsdforge.com,freebsd.org]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[carpeddiem]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.013]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.05)[-0.046]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.166.194:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.166.194:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:22:33 -0000 On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 at 12:06, Bakul Shah wrote: > > The cgit-beta.FreeBSD.org and github trees are not identical the last > time I looked (mainly in meta data). Any reason for not keeping them > identical? I switched from the github tree to the cgit-beta tree. The current GitHub mirror is missing a bunch of merge metadata for many commits to contrib software. This poses no issue for while the canonical repository is Subversion and contrib software updates are done there, but would cause grief for future contrib updates after the git migration is complete. There are still a few issues in cgit-beta left to resolve, so the hashes there will still change before the cutover. From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 17:18:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976263E85CE for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:18:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: from sdaoden.eu (sdaoden.eu [217.144.132.164]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bty8j3xLrz4DrS; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:18:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steffen@sdaoden.eu) Received: by sdaoden.eu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 692D116057; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 19:18:22 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 19:18:22 +0200 From: Steffen Nurpmeso To: Bakul Shah Cc: Warner Losh , Zaphod Beeblebrox , Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Plans for git Message-ID: <20200919171822.oOWcI%steffen@sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> Mail-Followup-To: Bakul Shah , Warner Losh , Zaphod Beeblebrox , Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current User-Agent: s-nail v14.9.19-127-g67fa13b6 OpenPGP: id=EE19E1C1F2F7054F8D3954D8308964B51883A0DD; url=https://ftp.sdaoden.eu/steffen.asc; preference=signencrypt BlahBlahBlah: Any stupid boy can crush a beetle. But all the professors in the world can make no bugs. X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bty8j3xLrz4DrS X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.78 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.995]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sdaoden.eu]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.49)[-0.488]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15987, ipnet:217.144.128.0/20, country:DE]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[bsdimp.com,gmail.com,bsdforge.com,freebsd.org]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:18:30 -0000 Bakul Shah wrote in : |On Sep 18, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Warner Losh wrote: |> |> These are the main ones. The three down sides are lack of $FreeBSD$ \ |> support |> and tags in general. | |Can a git hook be used for this? I use a git pre-commit hook to fake-update SCCS IDs for my web site ( if git rev-parse --verify HEAD >/dev/null 2>&1 then against=HEAD else # Initial commit: diff against an empty tree object against=4b825dc642cb6eb9a060e54bf8d69288fbee4904 fi DATE=`date -u +%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%S` git diff-index --name-status --cached $against -- | grep -E '^[AM][[:space:]]+.+\.(html|js|css)' | cut -f2 | while read f; do if grep -F '@(#)' ${f} > /dev/null 2>&1; then < ${f} perl -e ' while () { unless ($_ =~ /@\(#\)/) { print; next; } chomp; $_ =~ /^((?:.*?)@\(\#\)(?:.+?) \d+\.) (\d+) ( .+\+0000)(.*)$/x; print $1, int($2) + 1, " '"${DATE}"'+0000", $4, "\n"; } ' > ${f}.new mv ${f}.new ${f} git add ${f} fi done exit 0 and do not look to seriously) but of course this is a crux that can only work well with a single developer / changeset branch tip, as soon as you join in other branches you are in trouble unless you cherry-pick everything onto a main line by policy. |> Yes. I've started doing a series of short videos explaining the change, \ |> why |> we are doing it and what to do in the new world order. I'll be doing blog |> entries as well as turning that material into handbook entries. I \ |> have some |> of those written. |> |> Does this help? | |It would be useful to describe the development model (e.g. how major/minor |features get added etc), how to maintain multiple local branches (e.g. |release branch or -current) or working on more than one feature at \ |a time etc. | |Do you plan to move to something like the github review process? | |When is the cutover supposed to occur? | |The cgit-beta.FreeBSD.org and github trees are not identical the last |time I looked (mainly in meta data). Any reason for not keeping them |identical? I switched from the github tree to the cgit-beta tree. | |FWIW, I have used sccs, rcs, cvs, subversion, mercurial, git & a few more. |I have used git exclusively for the last few years. I felt more comfortable |with git once I understood the on-disk storage model. The Pro Git book is |pretty good for that & more. That gc (--aggressive --prune=all) thing is a tremendous plus for git in my opinion. I track all BSDs and the Linux kernel via git and in bare repositories without checked out work dir, and it is as compact as can be. Whereas with Mercurial and Subversion (as i used to know them a decade(+) ago) you had all that mess lying around. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt) From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 17:42:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9AD3E9CDA for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf29.google.com (mail-qv1-xf29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Btyhh5XCsz4Gyd for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:42:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf29.google.com with SMTP id ef16so4945447qvb.8 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 10:42:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UskghZU2oteW3ntWyIvQSjGRRnum4IrjT2L96OuCT04=; b=q4l3FuYmMTm4Nfe9U/iTemMbvtnK0OEwdRgp8iAHv8C+igYsfDyo0R1X7kh+T+2x12 CU83ugS/9him2l7UJM3Mb0vQLbzF7rxogXLzghUsRtDjt5MCbmifJwDt0FLsPOH5AGVn ElhBZ6vrti+eMH5AFyDX8u3mVrjLf66VPm9eQo9eZ7OLVXMxQ76WgWbb6kwKFfpuFF4f paFTVCZBFdLulAUQB+Pcj3fQrZj+8Dkvv4LLA0d+Cky16GCl9WxFSfWvsLms7lDE+fYj 59fTAzq+F9hYlr4nZoTQu9/sQmW2mLhiUtN/cSgNHCgUUUW5hReEi13Fydc+uURd94PM QZuw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530f0gX+XoMfg270QdxCDeiezsJXwod7GSsWtHrR5diqA+NYQpTL t8cNP97opvgIUx2pOnEzFRi1pBZsiH+wzio0CmiVEg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwW98svEUwTPhnsS5gybHn/TzJVH0WbS6Wd6KYVuz29/SnKitZqzHZUewkZ1pdFjfaZVSIaNXlqaHOWi1DiX/Q= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:a482:: with SMTP id x2mr22665251qvx.56.1600537363477; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 10:42:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:42:31 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Bakul Shah Cc: Zaphod Beeblebrox , Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Btyhh5XCsz4Gyd X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.95 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.939]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.03)[-1.027]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f29:from]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.020]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,bsdforge.com,freebsd.org] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:42:45 -0000 On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 10:05 AM Bakul Shah wrote: > On Sep 18, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > These are the main ones. The three down sides are lack of $FreeBSD$ > support > > and tags in general. > > Can a git hook be used for this? > No. Not really. There is an extension to git to mark and unmark the tree. However, the markings aren't useful enough to even pursue that. > > > Yes. I've started doing a series of short videos explaining the change, > why > > we are doing it and what to do in the new world order. I'll be doing blog > > entries as well as turning that material into handbook entries. I have > some > > of those written. > > > > Does this help? > > It would be useful to describe the development model (e.g. how major/minor > features get added etc), how to maintain multiple local branches (e.g. > release branch or -current) or working on more than one feature at a time > etc. > > Do you plan to move to something like the github review process? > > When is the cutover supposed to occur? > I'll have all that in a newer blog. But here is a quick summary. We hope to do the final cut over next month. We hit a snag with some inconsistencies in the svn mirrors we need to chase down, plus that give me some more time to document things better. Initially, just the tool changes to match today's workflow. However, that's just the first step to allow us to improve the work flow incrementally as different aspects of it get community buy in... The cgit-beta.FreeBSD.org and github trees are not identical the last > time I looked (mainly in meta data). Any reason for not keeping them > identical? I switched from the github tree to the cgit-beta tree. > Yes. The checked out trees are identical. But the hashes and some revs differ slightly. There are simply so many mistakes in the github export that we decided the pain of fixing was smaller than having to deal with them forever. I'll try to write up all the details for this as well. Warner FWIW, I have used sccs, rcs, cvs, subversion, mercurial, git & a few more. > I have used git exclusively for the last few years. I felt more comfortable > with git once I understood the on-disk storage model. The Pro Git book is > pretty good for that & more. > > Thanks, > Bakul From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 18:23:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2423EB142 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 18:23:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62c.google.com (mail-ej1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Btzbg4hPQz4Jkj; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 18:23:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zbeeble@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ej1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id nw23so12342529ejb.4; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=p861cqtJ5rm7wdjRSuRe6wV6VuWs/tiFPUopuTGPvTs=; b=U8ybYM80P/W4mLgiBO2xv5dEyS5ybsMOO5utN9xGxhENC0xLOCzTEnPt5LZg5IOAkG 1AAXBWi5z/mOz6mobtzGxXIn9kdAEVeZ4kDK/9cmYlQZ79r7BBhg9PapLryp0rz1bSUj Lgd3e9MVR5+dME+WvZ488S+bh+3wnCkhTVsDWdsywIlB6L4kWhClFOIC2O03fbJ9wIsw H3tgAv87iXryCjSq1VeQcowlj5E3dAVjfOFRZdIqOgYc6NaBG+5qju+LLHGkrEZbF5vg +oYlyfnqSvxL8vXfcLBBFCAoweM/ucdolB9BrJeYijNpCyG4GCNZLGNEh67pW8S7/lX0 qBMA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Wl/vHf6rMvjGG0RjG/bEcb37ZtI1ZbQIcE6lcJ/V70/ftx6Tq S3UK91xzTgy9ZtJYbZBWXvxU/amPq4/wSjUGJQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwr5aroNH6xcGkEdqbc+v9Hpz9uKeItbxLoJYOxi+LJjW3055ik559bPnYAPbgWngfZymwnhu+qZNDF6UuV1xQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:c411:: with SMTP id u17mr41223434ejz.319.1600539805118; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 11:23:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200902045939.GA15897@eureka.lemis.com> <20200902060117.GG53210@home.opsec.eu> <20200902063136.GA47543@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20200902164706.GA49777@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <5c89b4d27281f5dfffc3252a90013b0ac6c763d7.camel@freebsd.org> <5c832482-b2bc-47e4-8762-8f5a886d5f11@www.fastmail.com> <68585ca4-5ca4-40d3-b2f4-67ff3b35b6ae@www.fastmail.com> <0be2ae57d1c58e2091f4cc4484731df0@bsdforge.com> <967D73EA-880E-413D-B748-62A406C46524@FreeBSD.org> <9f89dc553e7d7b0884c2862329bdfeae@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: From: Zaphod Beeblebrox Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:23:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: Warner Losh Cc: Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Btzbg4hPQz4Jkj X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.79 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.05)[-1.049]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62c:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.75)[-0.750]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 18:23:29 -0000 Actually, frankly, yes. Nearly the first cogent summary I've found so far. On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 2:22 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 11:31 PM Zaphod Beeblebrox > wrote: > >> Hrm. Maybe what I hear others saying, tho, and not entirely being >> replied to is just a nice concise document of the why. What I hear you >> saying is that GIT has momentum and that it's popular... (and I accept that >> --- it is evidently true), but then I hear handwaving about features, but >> no list of features that are a clear win/loose. >> > > Apache has switched to git from subversion. They are the current > caretakers of subversion so it's future is very much in doubt. > > Git have more support for newer CI tools than subversion. This will allow > us, once things are fully phased in, to increase the quality of the code > going into the tree, as well as greatly reduce build breakages and > accidental regressions. > > Gits merging facilities are much better than subversion. You can more > easily curate patches as well since git supports a rebase workflow. This > allows cleaner patches that are logical bits for larger submissions. > Subversion can't do this. > > Git can easily and robustly be mirrored. Subversion can be mirrored, but > that mirroring is far from robust. One of the snags in the git migration is > that different svn mirrors have different data than the main repo or each > other. Git can cryptographically sign tags and commits. Subversion cannot. > > Mirroring also opens up more 3rd party plug ins. Gitlab can do some > things, Github others, in terms of automated testing and continuous > integration. Tests can be run when branches are pushed. Both these > platforms have significant collaboration tools as well, which will support > groups going off and creating new features for FreeBSD. While one can use > these things to a limited degree, with subversion mirrored to github, the > full power of these tools isn't fully realized without a conversion to git. > > All of this is before the skillset arguments are made about kids today > just knowing git, but needing to learn subversion and how that has had > increasing been a source of friction. This argument is the closest one to > being handwavy since I've not voted the data showing the growing proportion > of projects using git (iirc, it's 85% or 90%). > > These are the main ones. The three down sides are lack of $FreeBSD$ > support and tags in general. Git has a weaker count of commits than > subversion. And the BSDL git clients are less mature than the GPL'd ones. > > Certainly the only clear things a quick search turns up that seem relevant >> is that GIT is GPL2.0 and SVN is Apache2.0. This was enough for LLVM vs >> GCC and the repository is a core function, but I suppose not a necessary >> function for forked projects that can't abide, so... >> > > OPENBSD has got, which is being ported in earnest. It has an agreeable > license. > > Anyways... some concise record of thoughts might calm the gnawing >> sensation in my gut... >> > > Yes. I've started doing a series of short videos explaining the change, > why we are doing it and what to do in the new world order. I'll be doing > blog entries as well as turning that material into handbook entries. I have > some of those written. > > Does this help? > > Warner > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 4:19 PM Warner Losh wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:32 PM Chris wrote: >>> >>> > On 2020-09-03 11:33, Kristof Provost wrote: >>> > > On 3 Sep 2020, at 19:56, Chris wrote: >>> > >> Why was the intention to switch NOT announced as such MUCH sooner? >>> > >> >>> > > There was discussion about a possible switch to git on the >>> freebsd-git >>> > > mailing >>> > > list as early as February 2017: >>> > > >>> > >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/2017-February/000092.html >>> > > >>> > > Ed gave a talk about FreeBSD and git back in 2018: >>> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8wQ88d85s4 >>> > > >>> > > The Git Transition Working group was mentioned in the quarterly >>> status >>> > > reports a >>> > > year ago: >>> > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-07-2019-09.html >>> > > and >>> > > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-04-2019-06.html >>> > It appears to me that the references you make here all allude to >>> > _investigation_ >>> > of a _possibility_ as opposed to a _likelihood_, or an _inevitable_. >>> > IMHO a change as significant as this, which will require tossing years >>> of >>> > tooling >>> > out the window, and an untold amount of _re_tooling. Should have >>> created an >>> > announcement at _least_ as significant as a new release gets on the >>> mailing >>> > lists. >>> > >>> >>> Yes. We've been working on this for years. We've been working on the >>> retooling in earnest for the last 6 months. We didn't make an >>> announcement >>> because we wanted to have most of the pieces in place before we did that. >>> We've been doing the multi-year process for multiple years now. I'll also >>> point out that only the 'git' people showed. A number of other ideas were >>> suggested, but nothing else was stood up in a serious way (hg came the >>> closest to setting up an exporter). Since there was really no >>> alternatives >>> being proposed to git, the process was less visible than if we'd had to >>> have had a hg vs git bake off. One step has lead to the next, with much >>> status reporting done for years. >>> >>> Subversion, btw, is not viable in the long run. The Apache foundation has >>> moved all its projects from svn to git. The velocity of features with svn >>> has diminished, and the number of CI/CT/etc tool sets that supported svn >>> well has been dropping over time. It's also been identified as a barrier >>> to >>> entry for the project. Sure, some people climb the learning curve to >>> learn >>> and understand it, but our survey data has shown that for every one that >>> did take the time, many others did not and simply didn't contribute. >>> >>> All of these issues have been discussed at length at conferences for the >>> last 5 years at least, with increasing levels of sophistication. Had >>> there >>> been a BSDcan this year, I'd hoped to do a talk / BOF on this to help >>> socialize the ideas and to get people's feedback in real time (rather >>> than >>> the slow and difficult process of getting it just in email). >>> >>> We've also talked about this in the BSD office hours and core election >>> forums over the past year. >>> >>> We've been rolling out the beta git repo now for 3 months. People have >>> found issues and we've been correcting them. We've heard from people that >>> their automated tooling needs a bit of transition time, so we'll be >>> exporting the stable/11 and stable/12 branches back into subversion (and >>> the release branches) after the conversion for the life of those >>> branches, though we don't plan on doing it for the current nor stable/13 >>> branches (due to the inefficiencies of git-svn, we need separate trees >>> for >>> each, and each tree takes over a day to setup). We know we need some >>> better >>> docs (we have some decent preliminary ones, but there's some missing bits >>> in them, and they are too long for more casual users). We need to spell >>> out >>> different commit policies, how we're going to have to shift our "MFC" >>> terminology because that's very CVS/SVN centric (in git a merge means a >>> more specific thing than it does in svn. A cherry-pick in git is also >>> called a merge in svn, for example). We need to document to the >>> developers >>> how to make the shift (this doc is mostly complete and was posted >>> earlier, >>> though it could use some TLC). We'd hoped to have the documents done, the >>> policies written and vetted and have a good test system before making an >>> announcement. The last thing I wanted was to make a big announcement, >>> only >>> to fail to deliver. And since each step of the process followed >>> naturally, >>> there wasn't a clear A/B decision point where an announcement could have >>> been generated. We were getting close to publishing the final schedule >>> when >>> this thread popped up, though, since it is finally feeling like it will >>> be >>> real soon. I also had hoped to refine things so that existing developers >>> and users would have only minor disruption at the cut over because things >>> were well documented. >>> >>> And once we have all the basics of phase 1 (which is just going to be 'do >>> FreeBSD's current workflow in git, making minimal changes initially), >>> we'll >>> start on the refinements to the workflow that will help improve the >>> quality >>> of code, make it easier to integrate changes, etc. There's quite the >>> diversity of views and opinions in the larger open source world on what >>> best practices are here, with different projects doing different things. >>> It >>> will take some time for the project to adopt these new tools, new work >>> flows and realize that in some cases a diversity of tools can be an >>> advantage rather than a liability. This may be especially true as the >>> needs >>> of the ports tree differ from the needs of the src tree and what's >>> optimal >>> for one may not work too well for the other. >>> >>> So a lot of my reaction in the past few days has been frustration that >>> this >>> came up about a week before we had all our ducks in a row to talk about >>> it >>> effectively and talk about the transition plans. I apologize for being so >>> snarky about it. >>> >>> Warner >>> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to " >>> freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >> From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 20:02:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9983EDDB5; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 20:02:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uspoerlein@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-f171.google.com (mail-oi1-f171.google.com [209.85.167.171]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bv1p46PFRz4QfV; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 20:02:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from uspoerlein@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 26so3342084ois.5; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:02:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jHRELi8xqcR4F1ZFH0+Cx6s1bSL8ARoeF/PJCer/lc4=; b=VCCcZoQN+83f9dkCKbgEO50Y6pjUlUD8I1B7PWLYWfHDkDzi00schv4K2F34Ez7rpN sB9t9OmZ58/DIcRimzGZh9e4ok+/yieAeFugoZLu1t3YnAt15STazXMT3pSUzw5L8avR DhKtTGPitH9N1ykmkUd/lgIRAuISkceFY8DSDN5Zg2JxrO1jlNQLvxsXe47p5e1GvONt hDBUlkltZaooInakkvLdDZmcKhlObA36sq3XrmRU2F3T0+EAk/Ez4DKTyTaYR+Zj0xN3 OpVDezmABZhZsCwFlG1lywhMVToDvNemLxp1cyFQxnP2tAotapV8VfYy6xn/bkoaXcQ3 nUEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533vm9dWuNSuGfDX05PdwuWoE4jGHis6OkJGgA5fplpayqqA6HE1 o420sc/jyhGGNBrXfFXQ8eZHXz0hkxVeMSeDO5ZNb4+tXm4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzEYMsf7yfdmdqR1KfztYc8jQsWvghk+lppGeIFbi2Vgd8Iz5N9R/fSr0ivHD3+vNU/dl4cJKxYbvg8BMVkveI= X-Received: by 2002:aca:f414:: with SMTP id s20mr12857014oih.42.1600545755782; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:02:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ulrich_Sp=C3=B6rlein?= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 22:02:24 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: on moving freebsd from svn to git; would this be of any help? To: Chris Cc: freebsd-git , freebsd-current , freebsd-hackers , Ed Maste Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bv1p46PFRz4QfV X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.45 / 15.00]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.990]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.90)[-0.901]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.56)[-0.557]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.167.171:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[uqs@freebsd.org,uspoerlein@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.167.171:from]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[uqs@freebsd.org,uspoerlein@gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-git,freebsd-current,freebsd-hackers] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 20:02:37 -0000 On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 10:04 PM Ed Maste wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 at 15:07, Chris wrote: > > > > While contemplating a massive re-tooling job ahead to accommodate > > any/all changes when freebsd fully lands in git. I ran across this[1][2] > > and wondered if it may be of any assistance for the task of those > > involved in the migration process @freebsd. > > It doesn't solve any of the problems we have now; the actual svn to > git conversion via svn2git works fine. Open issues are with the svn > repository / mirrors, and finishing up process documentation. > > 1) http://catb.org/esr/reposurgeon/ > > 2) https://gitlab.com/esr/reposurgeon > > > > FTR I'm unaffiliated with the project. It just looked like it might be of > > interest. Thanks for bringing this up. I did look at reposurgeon quite a while ago but considered it too much work to get the rules right, especially for the CVS days of the project. Cheers Uli From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 20:44:55 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF06D3EED44 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 20:44:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bv2kt3s96z4Tfw; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 20:44:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id n133so10646068qkn.11; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:44:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=OuA4rtpccoHTd4R9CWlZYf1FtfifdK5RVrkSXpVgwTM=; b=A4LecMCcS6aPRN1l5UI26DXM58TqlK9a32z7mHg7ZVdvuGzqncobzs0uvJ2dPZHNMH lenrSN2ltn3qYzawVN8B/m6guQTQdJNWIBSZBzYXLv9jORpQuzbXGxnAqXSDelbBy8r3 r8oiMxiyqwPfzj708e6Kr/yfrUmV8qjcs0QHTSvrW76csqsS1nOXTbLNljDUqCXM39Af 7xB0r6SdWfu/A5YA1vu+4/pNdn2wPNIrb1oexePuV1tsZXQCUkVXUcFtxD01EQKSFi8v BshR/vBApivQ93b3Xt00t58pYPqgdZZ+qYKaQ/Dy7gkddWm17bugZwQxqkVPLJi4EvXs QzcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531alRLmhNQI246+btkyLMzLAP3KFOcmlodUyR5GYlr3561UeZQS gDQwGhu2WOxNiBpJbyGN/R5+N+70z+Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyMsJuMnahiD0T19lle4y0Y5vWG94njCPjrw2/y7+dxuMxy24pIHJ5LgOybmtGgAaUs6qMh1Q== X-Received: by 2002:a37:aca:: with SMTP id 193mr40331352qkk.149.1600548293353; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([2804:389:2012:1ad:c81:ed07:9f29:faf9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l26sm5024154qki.62.2020.09.19.13.44.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Sep 2020 13:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Lucas_Nali_de_Magalh=C3=A3es?= Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Plans for git Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 17:44:50 -0300 Message-Id: References: Cc: Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18A373) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bv2kt3s96z4Tfw X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[7]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.871]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(0.62)[subject]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.038]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::736:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-current] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 20:44:55 -0000 Just My 2=C2=A2=E2=80=A6=20 > On Sep 3, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:32 PM Chris wro= te: >=20 >>> On 2020-09-03 11:33, Kristof Provost wrote: >>> On 3 Sep 2020, at 19:56, Chris wrote: >>>> Why was the intention to switch NOT announced as such MUCH sooner? >>>>=20 >>> There was discussion about a possible switch to git on the freebsd-git >>> mailing >>> list as early as February 2017: >>>=20 >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/2017-February/000092.html= >>>=20 >>> Ed gave a talk about FreeBSD and git back in 2018: >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DG8wQ88d85s4 >>>=20 >>> The Git Transition Working group was mentioned in the quarterly status >>> reports a >>> year ago: >> https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-07-2019-09.html >>> and >>> https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-04-2019-06.html >> It appears to me that the references you make here all allude to >> _investigation_ >> of a _possibility_ as opposed to a _likelihood_, or an _inevitable_. >> IMHO a change as significant as this, which will require tossing years of= >> tooling >> out the window, and an untold amount of _re_tooling. Should have created a= n >> announcement at _least_ as significant as a new release gets on the maili= ng >> lists. >>=20 >=20 > Yes. We've been working on this for years. We've been working on the > retooling in earnest for the last 6 months. We didn't make an announcement= > because we wanted to have most of the pieces in place before we did that. > We've been doing the multi-year process for multiple years now. I'll also > point out that only the 'git' people showed. A number of other ideas were > suggested, but nothing else was stood up in a serious way (hg came the > closest to setting up an exporter). Since there was really no alternatives= > being proposed to git, the process was less visible than if we'd had to > have had a hg vs git bake off. One step has lead to the next, with much > status reporting done for years. >=20 > Subversion, btw, is not viable in the long run. The Apache foundation has > moved all its projects from svn to git. The velocity of features with svn > has diminished, and the number of CI/CT/etc tool sets that supported svn > well has been dropping over time. It's also been identified as a barrier t= o > entry for the project. Sure, some people climb the learning curve to learn= > and understand it, but our survey data has shown that for every one that > did take the time, many others did not and simply didn't contribute. >=20 > All of these issues have been discussed at length at conferences for the > last 5 years at least, with increasing levels of sophistication. Had there= > been a BSDcan this year, I'd hoped to do a talk / BOF on this to help > socialize the ideas and to get people's feedback in real time (rather than= > the slow and difficult process of getting it just in email). >=20 > We've also talked about this in the BSD office hours and core election > forums over the past year. >=20 > We've been rolling out the beta git repo now for 3 months. People have > found issues and we've been correcting them. We've heard from people that > their automated tooling needs a bit of transition time, so we'll be > exporting the stable/11 and stable/12 branches back into subversion (and > the release branches) after the conversion for the life of those > branches, though we don't plan on doing it for the current nor stable/13 > branches (due to the inefficiencies of git-svn, we need separate trees for= > each, and each tree takes over a day to setup). We know we need some bette= r > docs (we have some decent preliminary ones, but there's some missing bits > in them, and they are too long for more casual users). We need to spell ou= t > different commit policies, how we're going to have to shift our "MFC" > terminology because that's very CVS/SVN centric (in git a merge means a > more specific thing than it does in svn. A cherry-pick in git is also > called a merge in svn, for example). We need to document to the developers= > how to make the shift (this doc is mostly complete and was posted earlier,= > though it could use some TLC). We'd hoped to have the documents done, the > policies written and vetted and have a good test system before making an > announcement. The last thing I wanted was to make a big announcement, only= > to fail to deliver. And since each step of the process followed naturally,= > there wasn't a clear A/B decision point where an announcement could have > been generated. We were getting close to publishing the final schedule whe= n > this thread popped up, though, since it is finally feeling like it will be= > real soon. I also had hoped to refine things so that existing developers > and users would have only minor disruption at the cut over because things > were well documented. >=20 > And once we have all the basics of phase 1 (which is just going to be 'do > FreeBSD's current workflow in git, making minimal changes initially), we'l= l > start on the refinements to the workflow that will help improve the qualit= y > of code, make it easier to integrate changes, etc. There's quite the > diversity of views and opinions in the larger open source world on what > best practices are here, with different projects doing different things. I= t > will take some time for the project to adopt these new tools, new work > flows and realize that in some cases a diversity of tools can be an > advantage rather than a liability. This may be especially true as the need= s > of the ports tree differ from the needs of the src tree and what's optimal= > for one may not work too well for the other. >=20 > So a lot of my reaction in the past few days has been frustration that thi= s > came up about a week before we had all our ducks in a row to talk about it= > effectively and talk about the transition plans. I apologize for being so > snarky about it. The thing that bugs me most is the fact that this all happened and was done w= ithout bringing public attention until recently. It wasn't the fragility of t= he argumentations nor the feeling that we are now following the group. Many o= f the initiatives that didn't went forward and have been removed I evaluated= as a positive point in the project, even. I saw many projects and ideas die= due to bad management and lack of action, not for the kind of argumentation= presented. --=20 rollingbits =E2=80=94 =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@gmail.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollin= gbits@terra.com.br =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@yahoo.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbi= ts@globo.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@icloud.com From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 21:24:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA4B3F028C for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 21:24:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82b.google.com (mail-qt1-x82b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bv3c55J5Zz4XFM for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 21:24:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82b.google.com with SMTP id y11so8709792qtn.9 for ; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:24:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1XZOBwSBzs7bdRTc83vPjvqpytaLju3nNCThipTm5qA=; b=ofJRM2L12GGNOoEZbW+Mji3DRMOAguxjNQxPvydNH2vWNfTgvC030dVcAl+LMpuWUg eiw94xSOG9tpUWRri0h4g8EZq3enbpKVx9VMHrGlUGz9KB58dDKwtLzQUKbbvlJrLWkR LnH/mnbZU7J57BQqwy1z//FGc/dAw4V182BUaLhqAzWvxjztmnRDywm8aKDskxjIuwv0 u1IN9ZvIOzzpnyUJvQWwWmjYZwiATXEf8qb+06lat5JIGKnsvJ//hKOCZErtbIJffpBY naab7VXcRMGQHIYbFW9BZrFTpgCHpcVPJmrV6z8SRold1Cl09HJLjoPyNYtVKjY5Uhm7 GUrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531dnM0bkBmO+gpIW8DYu4IyzkBX3zBhw6s74FfHxjs2xWzgubAy 5ZuIWR7tE25UXvCODnVT5/ucqF+0r2JoMBaqzYqJvqEVwJ+HnQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy9PAJQWrnTYfUXF+q+XK0f+kJ252GJuwSh3BjCaM9h/0TLwGoQ85+1ZvMI9ZP5fGnfJUK7RRnaEWTUynMv8oo= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3261:: with SMTP id y30mr39803629qta.242.1600550644277; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 14:24:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 15:23:52 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Plans for git To: =?UTF-8?Q?Lucas_Nali_de_Magalh=C3=A3es?= Cc: Chris , Kristof Provost , FreeBSD Current X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bv3c55J5Zz4XFM X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.57 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.957]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.976]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.64)[-0.642]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[FreeBSD-current]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 21:24:06 -0000 On Sat, Sep 19, 2020, 2:44 PM Lucas Nali de Magalh=C3=A3es wrote: > Just My 2=C2=A2=E2=80=A6 > > On Sep 3, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > =EF=BB=BFOn Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:32 PM Chris wr= ote: > > On 2020-09-03 11:33, Kristof Provost wrote: > > On 3 Sep 2020, at 19:56, Chris wrote: > > Why was the intention to switch NOT announced as such MUCH sooner? > > > There was discussion about a possible switch to git on the freebsd-git > > mailing > > list as early as February 2017: > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-git/2017-February/000092.html > > > Ed gave a talk about FreeBSD and git back in 2018: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DG8wQ88d85s4 > > > The Git Transition Working group was mentioned in the quarterly status > > reports a > > year ago: > > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-07-2019-09.html > > and > > https://www.freebsd.org/news/status/report-2019-04-2019-06.html > > It appears to me that the references you make here all allude to > > _investigation_ > > of a _possibility_ as opposed to a _likelihood_, or an _inevitable_. > > IMHO a change as significant as this, which will require tossing years of > > tooling > > out the window, and an untold amount of _re_tooling. Should have created = an > > announcement at _least_ as significant as a new release gets on the maili= ng > > lists. > > > > Yes. We've been working on this for years. We've been working on the > retooling in earnest for the last 6 months. We didn't make an announcemen= t > because we wanted to have most of the pieces in place before we did that. > We've been doing the multi-year process for multiple years now. I'll also > point out that only the 'git' people showed. A number of other ideas were > suggested, but nothing else was stood up in a serious way (hg came the > closest to setting up an exporter). Since there was really no alternative= s > being proposed to git, the process was less visible than if we'd had to > have had a hg vs git bake off. One step has lead to the next, with much > status reporting done for years. > > Subversion, btw, is not viable in the long run. The Apache foundation has > moved all its projects from svn to git. The velocity of features with svn > has diminished, and the number of CI/CT/etc tool sets that supported svn > well has been dropping over time. It's also been identified as a barrier = to > entry for the project. Sure, some people climb the learning curve to lear= n > and understand it, but our survey data has shown that for every one that > did take the time, many others did not and simply didn't contribute. > > All of these issues have been discussed at length at conferences for the > last 5 years at least, with increasing levels of sophistication. Had ther= e > been a BSDcan this year, I'd hoped to do a talk / BOF on this to help > socialize the ideas and to get people's feedback in real time (rather tha= n > the slow and difficult process of getting it just in email). > > We've also talked about this in the BSD office hours and core election > forums over the past year. > > We've been rolling out the beta git repo now for 3 months. People have > found issues and we've been correcting them. We've heard from people that > their automated tooling needs a bit of transition time, so we'll be > exporting the stable/11 and stable/12 branches back into subversion (and > the release branches) after the conversion for the life of those > branches, though we don't plan on doing it for the current nor stable/13 > branches (due to the inefficiencies of git-svn, we need separate trees fo= r > each, and each tree takes over a day to setup). We know we need some bett= er > docs (we have some decent preliminary ones, but there's some missing bits > in them, and they are too long for more casual users). We need to spell o= ut > different commit policies, how we're going to have to shift our "MFC" > terminology because that's very CVS/SVN centric (in git a merge means a > more specific thing than it does in svn. A cherry-pick in git is also > called a merge in svn, for example). We need to document to the developer= s > how to make the shift (this doc is mostly complete and was posted earlier= , > though it could use some TLC). We'd hoped to have the documents done, the > policies written and vetted and have a good test system before making an > announcement. The last thing I wanted was to make a big announcement, onl= y > to fail to deliver. And since each step of the process followed naturally= , > there wasn't a clear A/B decision point where an announcement could have > been generated. We were getting close to publishing the final schedule wh= en > this thread popped up, though, since it is finally feeling like it will b= e > real soon. I also had hoped to refine things so that existing developers > and users would have only minor disruption at the cut over because things > were well documented. > > And once we have all the basics of phase 1 (which is just going to be 'do > FreeBSD's current workflow in git, making minimal changes initially), we'= ll > start on the refinements to the workflow that will help improve the quali= ty > of code, make it easier to integrate changes, etc. There's quite the > diversity of views and opinions in the larger open source world on what > best practices are here, with different projects doing different things. = It > will take some time for the project to adopt these new tools, new work > flows and realize that in some cases a diversity of tools can be an > advantage rather than a liability. This may be especially true as the nee= ds > of the ports tree differ from the needs of the src tree and what's optima= l > for one may not work too well for the other. > > So a lot of my reaction in the past few days has been frustration that th= is > came up about a week before we had all our ducks in a row to talk about i= t > effectively and talk about the transition plans. I apologize for being so > snarky about it. > > > The thing that bugs me most is the fact that this all happened and was > done without bringing public attention until recently. It wasn't the > fragility of the argumentations nor the feeling that we are now following > the group. Many of the initiatives that didn't went forward and have been > removed I evaluated as a positive point in the project, even. I saw many > projects and ideas die due to bad management and lack of action, not for > the kind of argumentation presented. > We've been talking about this at conferences for years. The proceedings of which have been public. It's hard to get more public than that. We've been making quarterly reports about this for almost a years as well. We put out calls for people to help with the efforts about the same time. We have tried at every step of the way to be open and honest that this was going to happen. Now, we haven't had as good a PR campaign as we could have had? Sure. But we've made no efforts to keep this secret, nor conceal that it was happening. Now that the lack of PR is clear, I've started making some videos and blog posts to raise awareness and to educate. Warner --=20 > rollingbits =E2=80=94 =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@gmail.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rol= lingbits@terra.com.br =F0=9F=93=A7 > rollingbits@yahoo.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@globo.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rol= lingbits@icloud.com > > From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Sep 19 23:58:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C36F3F2A73; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 23:58:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (troutmask.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "troutmask", Issuer "troutmask" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bv72n6sk6z3RNy; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 23:58:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: from troutmask.apl.washington.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 08JNwnQG047724 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:58:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu) Received: (from sgk@localhost) by troutmask.apl.washington.edu (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 08JNwnLl047723; Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:58:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from sgk) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 16:58:49 -0700 From: Steve Kargl To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: [PATCH] libm -- fix expl kernels Message-ID: <20200919235849.GA47701@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bv72n6sk6z3RNy X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.48 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.37)[-0.367]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.56)[-0.558]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.55)[-0.553]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:73, ipnet:128.95.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers,freebsd-current]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[washington.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM, none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 23:58:59 -0000 The following patch fixes the ld80 and ld128 kernels for expl(x). I can't test ld128, so that patch is untested. . Micro-optimization: use sincosl(x) instead of a call to cosl(x) and a call to sinl(x). Argument reduction is done once not twice. . Use a long double constant instead of an invalid double constant. . Spell scale2 correctly --- /usr/src/lib/msun/ld80/k_expl.h 2019-02-23 07:45:04.364785000 -0800 +++ ld80/k_expl.h 2019-12-26 08:15:29.366146000 -0800 @@ -277,7 +277,7 @@ static inline long double complex __ldexp_cexpl(long double complex z, int expt) { - long double exp_x, hi, lo; + long double c, exp_x, hi, lo, s; long double x, y, scale1, scale2; int half_expt, k; @@ -285,16 +285,17 @@ y = cimagl(z); __k_expl(x, &hi, &lo, &k); - exp_x = (lo + hi) * 0x1p16382; + exp_x = (lo + hi) * 0x1p16382L; expt += k - 16382; scale1 = 1; half_expt = expt / 2; SET_LDBL_EXPSIGN(scale1, BIAS + half_expt); scale2 = 1; - SET_LDBL_EXPSIGN(scale1, BIAS + expt - half_expt); + SET_LDBL_EXPSIGN(scale2, BIAS + expt - half_expt); - return (CMPLXL(cos(y) * exp_x * scale1 * scale2, - sinl(y) * exp_x * scale1 * scale2)); + sincosl(y, &s, &c); + return (CMPLXL(c * exp_x * scale1 * scale2, + s * exp_x * scale1 * scale2)); } #endif /* _COMPLEX_H */ --- /usr/src/lib/msun/ld128/k_expl.h 2020-03-07 09:48:15.719876000 -0800 +++ ld128/k_expl.h 2020-09-19 16:51:43.577195000 -0700 @@ -300,7 +300,7 @@ static inline long double complex __ldexp_cexpl(long double complex z, int expt) { - long double exp_x, hi, lo; + long double c, exp_x, hi, lo, s; long double x, y, scale1, scale2; int half_expt, k; @@ -308,16 +308,17 @@ y = cimagl(z); __k_expl(x, &hi, &lo, &k); - exp_x = (lo + hi) * 0x1p16382; + exp_x = (lo + hi) * 0x1p16382L; expt += k - 16382; scale1 = 1; half_expt = expt / 2; SET_LDBL_EXPSIGN(scale1, BIAS + half_expt); scale2 = 1; - SET_LDBL_EXPSIGN(scale1, BIAS + expt - half_expt); + SET_LDBL_EXPSIGN(scale2, BIAS + expt - half_expt); - return (CMPLXL(cos(y) * exp_x * scale1 * scale2, - sinl(y) * exp_x * scale1 * scale2)); + sincosl(y, &s, &c); + return (CMPLXL(c * exp_x * scale1 * scale2, + s * exp_x * scale1 * scale2)); } #endif /* _COMPLEX_H */ -- Steve