From nobody Tue Sep 21 21:34:20 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69D3A175E58A for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:34:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com (mail-wr1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDZSY4QRnz4cLR for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:34:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id u18so787700wrg.5 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 14:34:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=N+vFcO2R+y+rxlPjiIU7VhQqg+cWRa83RV0Q7Asmexs=; b=a6hxRo6ahxUwpetPOt4Rx02ZcVkI8cLriTTPRxskROrcTMeJs9s3M+kbQR7qtv5hOi XIi3TryB0L3s9gBj0xRdfuedzi/Ni2ooFrjnFl41eqvZ5HgXOPZlwd7kSp0nLNpuwvBy jKMrEJMxuHAJDKUkrIGLaPWtmTUbsBJP2J98g3PReX0XlMOk4V8MihVgQA9B5NinA4RW IkpB86cxzo1Au6pjUmuhG7xn/3JkAKPKXe3VmDN2vswOJmEePxENYpROpuOmoP7HmtNC ZezkS8Qq8ZowU64NyjsrTIq/D7iotcZwJNe3Q//NU2Vw8vMe5QDsOOyzVs2jSHNKOtN/ n/AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=N+vFcO2R+y+rxlPjiIU7VhQqg+cWRa83RV0Q7Asmexs=; b=DOA0oTFWyH1/ee2fCJASufxP2VDQqseS4AhPKR/P0ESs7hPteYrvlIuXjZZK55trqI vkHVYtdUc10H4W1uuDEpy3B06Vpzfcn6vCuLIyD/Ho3SDkfjGFtxFW6ThtzYC5P6zp8Z vKnyn8OF28fVnnPegoRYFYHh9FIFN8Ao+v7pkzHiIVa/K9vYRp+gtMW3gcdGQOWim4Sj Ch/JikuXGfMnDFU++YZgSc2ChHLLG/FJ5pxNs+3acF3hvQ6zirXxndLvrMfwxmpDShLz wPF13f3y+j0uCGlc9TJ5N2GX3g8RQlmwijaBpBFDa/S9LjxKWDYanOFi3TdXNzcKr3m7 4t+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531J74BoU/jejyJxijloIt8F1gGUaC5rz/QpridgExnMZ9UNrSRx mm8WrUhkoMa6LTTccFaf0Jed9HDdEbE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwfhFqWdftUdZSsfPeSQCP/azmI8DACNl1pk9m4FzuC9Zz11Jem3ObIHyiXdGHUjqNGW0CUZQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4f02:: with SMTP id c2mr38163732wru.10.1632260060155; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 14:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (88-105-96-80.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com. [88.105.96.80]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o7sm264865wro.45.2021.09.21.14.34.19 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Sep 2021 14:34:19 -0700 (PDT) To: FreeBSD CURRENT From: Graham Perrin Subject: poudriere-devel: bulk: Error: Unable to execute id(1) in jail. Emulation or ABI wrong. Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 22:34:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDZSY4QRnz4cLR X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=a6hxRo6a; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grahamperrin@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::42d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grahamperrin@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[88.105.96.80:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::42d:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N From : [00:00:28] Starting jail main-default [00:00:28] Error: Unable to execute id(1) in jail. Emulation or ABI wrong. – and: [00:00:14] Starting jail 13-default [00:00:14] Error: Unable to execute id(1) in jail. Emulation or ABI wrong. Search results suggest that this might be _not_ an issue with poudriere, I'm not sure how to proceed. Suggestions? Thanks From nobody Wed Sep 22 04:07:26 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909A8175B623 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:07:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oo1-f46.google.com (mail-oo1-f46.google.com [209.85.161.46]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDlBS4Cq2z3hh3 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:07:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oo1-f46.google.com with SMTP id i26-20020a4ad09a000000b002a9d58c24f5so488842oor.0 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:07:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=yCL+w+yJY28kfO3RR/7GM6b5krX0OKymzhSkFbznFcU=; b=RMnkDvE5n+wb0SUHl0gRH2OGPfd51k9jeM+1B8WO/AeA0OXgUM984vmkDVb2tzzATi 3U3ukc8XWX5lLwnqxdQTA1AUqAiqp+9nsYxZ+0xbfQooMFEW7CVXQPNtEqfaWzzaNElU 3qEwnCQgdF3DihMvbxsp4dxZNdOcd2v6BrkLinTFUhzaR4bNDTMwvfVH73N/C21mgoRf lPo6IaOF9Dg7JGkpnbctzgQcoXf1g+Fq0M1p3oFK0spuQFE3JtdfU71EdYw8fboOy91Z r+jC6Yoa+AbwmLUh+hFyc+cNYKZ0TCW095khvO2/wFrtyzw+RefLCYx5wbeRy+3KAxi/ SUnA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531sc3y70EM3WyiiPOjlc6ezKTMEez3bhSBnwafvXBsrTsVPJ1xK u7EkDSljXM/fq5NEAxX/NUCfOT+fErqzvFUaEsMwebcuQzo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwd6uXf2A1eJQhFvX26LEoSn0YKO30b+yC3BmBA3ubie9uqSRCR8zgH+oc1kYd/1BGV2GH3qBzrIbgCp9l3dlQ= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:954c:: with SMTP id n12mr27346950ooi.12.1632283657799; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:07:37 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Alan Somers Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 22:07:26 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Using modern APIs in Rust on FreeBSD To: FreeBSD CURRENT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000988dc205cc8da716" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDlBS4Cq2z3hh3 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of asomers@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=asomers@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.92 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.915]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[asomers]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[209.85.161.46:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.161.46:from]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[0.997]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --000000000000988dc205cc8da716 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" tldr; should the Rust ecosystem ditch FreeBSD 10 compat for new code? Rust uses FFI to talk to the OS's C library. That makes cross-compiling a breeze. Unfortunately, it also fossilizes the ABI. FreeBSD's libc makes careful use of ELF symbol versioning. That's how we were able to change ino_t to 64-bits while maintaining backwards-compatibility with old binaries, for example. But the Rust toolchain isn't able to take advantage. Right now, the toolchain uses a FreeBSD 10 ABI, and the libc crate (which virtually all crates depend on) uses a FreeBSD 11 ABI. That means, for example, that no crate can use: * The offset field in a struct dirent * 64-bit nlink_t * 64-bit ino_t * No NOTE_ABSTIME with kevent * filesystem and mountpoint names in statfs(2) limited to 88 characters Until somebody fixes that hard problem, the easy thing for Rust to do would be to drop support for EoL versions. FreeBSD 10 has been EoL for nearly 3 years, and FreeBSD 11 will be EoL in a few days. I for one think that it would be fine for new Rust toolchains and libc releases to drop support for FreeBSD 10 and 11. People who need to build for old releases can easily get old toolchains from rustup, or even from old Ports snapshots. But the Rust core developers are conservative, and don't want to upset users of a platform that many of them don't understand. Do you agree with me? If so (or even if you don't), make some noise on this Github issue! Give the Rust core team the confidence they need to move forward. https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/89058 -Alan --000000000000988dc205cc8da716-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 04:27:09 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780EB175DFAA for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:27:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from damjan.jov@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com (mail-pg1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDld62l2Pz3kw7; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:27:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from damjan.jov@gmail.com) Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id m21so1289534pgu.13; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:27:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6KhDNoZhvWgKRGodDEZDSWroO+TzuNaxos83o57UhDQ=; b=aMizWq4Ypvw5pdsyMOpaANQtydimCPamFfZhq1iHKHeSHFjyoFf2GNICVFIVG5IR4d mYMS/M3X0zr9FM4R+SqDg2CPgU5XSyvbvKGLeaRb4Y+fr46AbPN3gFLFBnOw0yHhW5Tt u0B5ITJP/JFOUhQfeu6aHiZm/1Q+Qg0Z6QFA2YIhomm6oohLJOH0Y7Ei9tyUf7pkDMja aYLTts7JAPjmW7ral2RTtlgR+uD2Qk3bu7IUJIRFV+VxL27XUrD4K3uPJcFaRrCmU5sU tdG043BsNEF9lIWPEFWS/uvw0kIrQoFHr7/rFnxNeCfkvBVd99g/rHoJ7KNQHR8gZUGi xBew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6KhDNoZhvWgKRGodDEZDSWroO+TzuNaxos83o57UhDQ=; b=cQv61u+CN8i57gCSWPbUQvRq1JIxecKMVRlHAKBHoKMYtbJl8sxUu5psH3/wP3XG5S QFM3N8WkRm07BvwXyk9Z+1YmIM1BnWqCG4yund6Zp6va6zO7s1jcYMW7KHYqGlQZMhT+ RE0+zjvrvC+yZNUkHy5qqZ7jAAQTuBGbou2IiLVnuiFRdig+J9rRU5JFv7iOvWv6nyhn w7JcaeRCUVc5vf4tBTPlQyNw25i3zzL0XJP/HX9Qj+lPLzfHiRGzX1kS9XptYr7fC8W/ 0llrQq0oApdtMwm3oTZjKsDjmusQuVFcEgmaWwVegi3IyR2tkVGaf0uQMOHFaGZY0jTV BVkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533tmDfFh7uk6wYJhTfwBXX8KqNaxKG7Pj2Xfk1v3XlvmajcUtFt tiDT+RnTJgH+xXXEoIF5YaKkTy/uXVAERUD4+vVAVa2r X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwyx914HUJWe4D4uKlQRKttaljTJq4oxTCLrha4t0NzdSvZY4Z/3xkP1ioM6pF+ON1rqx+RnN7/YhQVw8wXNOI= X-Received: by 2002:a63:1358:: with SMTP id 24mr30780669pgt.327.1632284841210; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:27:21 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Damjan Jovanovic Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:27:09 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Using modern APIs in Rust on FreeBSD To: Alan Somers Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000021f77405cc8dee08" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDld62l2Pz3kw7 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --00000000000021f77405cc8dee08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 6:08 AM Alan Somers wrote: > tldr; should the Rust ecosystem ditch FreeBSD 10 compat for new code? > > Rust uses FFI to talk to the OS's C library. That makes cross-compiling a > breeze. Unfortunately, it also fossilizes the ABI. FreeBSD's libc makes > careful use of ELF symbol versioning. That's how we were able to change > ino_t to 64-bits while maintaining backwards-compatibility with old > binaries, for example. But the Rust toolchain isn't able to take > advantage. Right now, the toolchain uses a FreeBSD 10 ABI, and the libc > crate (which virtually all crates depend on) uses a FreeBSD 11 ABI. > How exactly is the ABI fossilized? If Rust's FFI uses run-time dynamic linking, it should be able to use dlvsym() to access the correct version of libc symbols. Damjan --00000000000021f77405cc8dee08-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 05:46:56 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2EC17C6970 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDnNy6tC6z3sJv for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:46:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id d6so3161911wrc.11 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 22:46:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:from:to:references:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=TtP5oexbQ+1HaRzh6L1LyYEhhj424sVIJaIkVLqhxf0=; b=Ta9EPXoTNhlYJMhAewx8A3jOdX/kwJqApQgpmmvUmLzBOcWWkj91HUMQi8KGT9E8nG Xudwi0AuA+jFgGo1bAi12ZBYwP+saPkqGKzc0Ke/C/wR7Pn0muJIOyqMAuro7Z4pdizZ oHLkD+h0Zd61bx+XQU3VSkkzzT5nFx1iMzFO6DTYRGlKM8O/X+Fu0rke4aS306SXLjOb UJ4iZZLBdOjjWuIuW3b8cU0AROoA/qZ50M6kLOETRtPmy/GgLSZCBfTL5lHuj9W9/03m tp/ltMScsflXU9HVzpnn7gxyFfpxCu8uq2lzzcmfPmY7Mw9LNPXV5kU1F4rIJNZq7yVS cPyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:from:to:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=TtP5oexbQ+1HaRzh6L1LyYEhhj424sVIJaIkVLqhxf0=; b=QPW2XKY0VsfJBNsgwipxS++3mlATOTpIvDCVQgUNAwWPAwyi+OgvKM4TElG/KDO3v3 +OHRfGhMtmHMXfyFISFQA4KKsHt7ZNn0y7IdCWcGBblZCznFGR9LgtW4brq1imFP7zkW F+wuLnC+dTJTDomasbqbwntMnPf1fZp7ElzgnIS7mIaibup3rVXsR4gRXAN3mu9NDn/m CGkS9V67LzLRsuJW7A/Vq5N3SGaqJF5dYejI1V6inJZr/ryP7Qs0Lv32/UKIC8nDdTXF rikCJT/9BZv5ODGggZ1za/JyXw6HYZAXdjFf4zlNfykQAITnIxRJn7I/mvSuYxdDyBk+ sThQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531CpzGMUUODw2wtwgE9Lch5BeFup/+6CG7sE3ErY0AbMPJEeNJG +bpCtnSbPx04MIbCmWj5mmK7L5JrMWk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzsDKieBFT9UaHb6bCzbKwnG76xbwh+4aPPmv3HtUUpCt87jRqek4Aa8j8Iso/I7brPE8hF+g== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4803:: with SMTP id l3mr39672277wrq.61.1632289617650; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 22:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:470:1f1c:a0::2? (tunnel642390-pt.tunnel.tserv1.lon2.ipv6.he.net. [2001:470:1f1c:a0::2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o3sm1087280wra.52.2021.09.21.22.46.56 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Sep 2021 22:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: poudriere-devel: bulk: Error: Unable to execute id(1) in jail. Emulation or ABI wrong. From: Graham Perrin To: FreeBSD CURRENT References: X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) Message-ID: <49857429-cd1f-d711-dd8a-4027b7112682@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:46:56 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDnNy6tC6z3sJv X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Ta9EPXoT; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grahamperrin@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::42c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grahamperrin@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.94 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.94)[-0.944]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::42c:from]; HAS_X_PRIO_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > … Search results suggest that this might be _not_ an issue with > poudriere, I'm not sure how to proceed. … Worked around by restarting the OS. From nobody Wed Sep 22 08:36:45 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B23A317D71CA; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:36:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDs8w4Pf2z4bn5; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:36:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from aniel.nours.eu (nours.eu [IPv6:2001:41d0:8:3a4d::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E55F4E7C; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:36:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by aniel.nours.eu (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9A8F7B2C04; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:36:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:36:45 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! Best regards, Baptiste From nobody Wed Sep 22 09:19:38 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116A41274F7E for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:20:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daniel@morante.net) Received: from venus.morante.net (venus.morante.net [63.247.147.163]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HDt6y2R9tz4hX8 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:20:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daniel@morante.net) Received: from venus.morante.net (zenon.morante.com [192.168.0.233]) by saturn.morante.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A9D11F83D for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:20:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on zenon.morante.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,NICE_REPLY_A, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-RelaysUntrusted: Received-SPF: pass (venus.morante.net: 192.168.0.2 is whitelisted) receiver=venus.morante.net; client-ip=192.168.0.2; helo=[192.168.0.2]; envelope-from=daniel@morante.net; x-software=SPF Validation 2.001 http://pacyworld.com/spf with libspf2-1.2.10; Received: from [192.168.0.2] (my-room.morante.com [192.168.0.2]) by venus.morante.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AA60011F834 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:20:02 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=morante.net; s=default; t=1632302402; bh=ZBoa8oC3bJOSfhCsnDDGyiIUvahlYrmICgm878TDrSg=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=IbNShgVawABfjLUreJ9BtVPleQU9ja/qFV6jCLVPtUNs7qpcAD7z3N1QMn6DHMuLt dys+VnoAy2vlUexB+lS49eslW8cRztNxy0kBHDEAi2gcG2/ry9tCx30uYESDiC/tWi omebVKKQmSRQDXHOeTGs4QaLRU6BrUkBMxm9Kq6c= X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.3 at zenon.morante.com Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:19:38 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms090306040604050506080808" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDt6y2R9tz4hX8 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=morante.net header.s=default header.b=IbNShgVa; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=morante.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of daniel@morante.net designates 63.247.147.163 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=daniel@morante.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[morante.net:s=default]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[morante.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[morante.net,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30221, ipnet:63.247.144.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] Reply-To: daniel@morante.net From: Daniel Morante via freebsd-current X-Original-From: Daniel Morante X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090306040604050506080808 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example=20 typing part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on=20 history) On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be co= nfusing > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne = shell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like othe= r shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDI= TOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to p= ropose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not M= FCed) > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make = this > proposal happen. > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > Best regards, > Baptiste > --------------ms090306040604050506080808 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DJgwggX/MIID56ADAgECAgIQADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxEDAO BgNVBAgMB0Zsb3JpZGExDzANBgNVBAcMBk5hcGxlczEpMCcGA1UECgwgVGhlIERhbmllbCBN b3JhbnRlIENvbXBhbnksIEluYy4xGDAWBgNVBAsMD1BhY3kgV29ybGQsIExMQzEbMBkGA1UE AwwSUGFjeSBXb3JsZCBSb290IENBMB4XDTE4MDcwNzE3MzUzMVoXDTI4MDcwNDE3MzUzMVow gYkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRAwDgYDVQQIDAdGbG9yaWRhMSkwJwYDVQQKDCBUaGUgRGFuaWVs IE1vcmFudGUgQ29tcGFueSwgSW5jLjEYMBYGA1UECwwPUGFjeSBXb3JsZCwgTExDMSMwIQYD VQQDDBpQYWN5IFdvcmxkIEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDQTCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIP 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mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D801758F14 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:32:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDtPL5DJQz4m3X; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:32:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from aniel.nours.eu (nours.eu [176.31.115.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80CDE5C83; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:32:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by aniel.nours.eu (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E59B6B2AE2; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:32:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:32:36 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: daniel@morante.net Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210922093236.azun2pqciabo3fem@aniel.nours.eu> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 05:19:38AM -0400, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current wrote: > Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example typing > part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on history) No, this is a csh specific behaviour. (not it can probably be doable via .shrc, but I haven't checked) Best regards, Bapt > > On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > Best regards, > > Baptiste > > > From nobody Wed Sep 22 10:18:38 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1552175DF35; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:18:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (plan-b.pwste.edu.pl [IPv6:2001:678:618::40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "plan-b.pwste.edu.pl", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDvQc4prDz4qc5; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:18:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from fomalhaut.potoki.eu (dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 18MAIdis056768 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:18:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; s=plan-b-mailer; t=1632305919; bh=6IZIpr4I29RBEk2gDd4V7OwENTdzmJLUZT7aKyNxvZY=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=aEjwQ46pQf/6ZAhTfnEPLpQu+kUZYBYFg8NgWIj6j51k+ump8lTRM38JkBuWAkfHw wAep2RytOMdrXSHdi7XY7GcGZNNnqnhlwU7yn60zpQ1BaSffNuQBBP7q05KQKZXKZ+ zRdIVhh6FJwcPtO7WcAO87+himGmrlbC4beQb62QJmgQIOsQlHmQfoEzs4+vHcm+2D G4l92DIoxNFiC1G6eeCnvG1BWldFS+IoFOptLRdGnw/58sh8HAnbHJt1pQAOJzDWS0 sJIzIqAAmrMWgnxzBC9cmMNoG3G/KjGVrdpD41/mGTQExcwnG0ct4mx33cCuDGAoYd Qf8EXdU3sU5xA== X-Authentication-Warning: plan-b.pwste.edu.pl: Host dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50] claimed to be fomalhaut.potoki.eu To: Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> From: Marek Zarychta Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <329044cc-1b04-31c8-213a-93b38d79b58c@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:18:38 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dq8D5COX5Jv8CXtZl02HVZLWviOnvCgqf" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDvQc4prDz4qc5 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --dq8D5COX5Jv8CXtZl02HVZLWviOnvCgqf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="m9mSZeFc7iAv6vYvaklLudKoQSBgBzZuD"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marek Zarychta To: Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <329044cc-1b04-31c8-213a-93b38d79b58c@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> --m9mSZeFc7iAv6vYvaklLudKoQSBgBzZuD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: pl Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable W dniu 22.09.2021 o=C2=A010:36, Baptiste Daroussin pisze: > Hello, >=20 > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >=20 > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be co= nfusing > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne = shell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >=20 > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like othe= r shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDI= TOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. >=20 > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to p= ropose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not M= FCed) >=20 > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make = this > proposal happen. >=20 > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >=20 > Best regards, > Baptiste > Is /bin/csh going to become default toor's default shell since then? --=20 Marek Zarychta --m9mSZeFc7iAv6vYvaklLudKoQSBgBzZuD-- --dq8D5COX5Jv8CXtZl02HVZLWviOnvCgqf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:29:32 +0000 From: Chris Stephan To: Baptiste Daroussin , "current@freebsd.org" , "arch@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Thread-Topic: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Thread-Index: AQHXr40cxy0vUGc6AkWoVJhLJ/8Elauv10Ky Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:29:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [SuY93E1n7UyqFEpcJf6QghDKLpoAdxlv] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: aa54e8ea-c08f-40d2-26f8-08d97db3ddf2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN4PR0201MB3437: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 47YbFDk9y61ENMn5qcs51bVSArJneNrQLxJHa1vugkm08vkSkeXVMVooo4f2PqeyNluBgEc/ueHTP8pal6i6ZOPEfiSSzP+GaX0Af6LKF8ZNeb+BzkRGQuAEDwJSY/v7iZMPfCrxb28tj6uc7mff4+rkjmm96kwxzWUzsLZBa/4+29i4jInzM+4r2R4kuKiUxAVKnJizTxCHOjjKr66HuSNYdB53uqodzvqd/2dqG0xw+9gajyf+atbB+qxoGNs9/rqhqQYhNgfkADnNaxyuOmBfHLtkDFAFJwEo9HfnGuVakMBOycG00Sw/19G3WVJ2NXH5O6UAU+zHI+6mCy0RMTTPVwxiq/cuRzglmndgU+B8yW/oQ0plP3UR3703TG6WQfizIR7krv/kYyjYy7WEUqA2yg4XRUSnOIHSA8jGn42NeFPAZ+/0et/MZVbEa9nj x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 3lzu3A0l2QHAe5+8X2lhgC+++O1LSB2E5No3BznEfMsitH7np+jC7h7CdZzTj6gtQ1ie/yaUYvnKheWdLFnhUpF8vrCsS59aBe58XLnPV6Uo/gKSPC3vWD3r8M8t7tYpDTJcInZcaz8AxUxq3FaDQg== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_SA1PR02MB8669B26ABC212799FF5B18E59BA29SA1PR02MB8669namp_" List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-3174-20-msonline-outlook-cec7a.templateTenant X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR02MB8669.namprd02.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: aa54e8ea-c08f-40d2-26f8-08d97db3ddf2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Sep 2021 10:29:32.3518 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN4PR0201MB3437 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDvg758J9z4sQP X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --_000_SA1PR02MB8669B26ABC212799FF5B18E59BA29SA1PR02MB8669namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I completely agree. It will save me the =91/bin/sh=92 at the beginning of e= ach =91su -=91 session. Also, it will simplify building extra small FreeBSD= images, allowing an easier removal of =91csh=92. I use csh from time to time, but I do wish it would take a much more explic= it action so my brain has switched over to =91csh mode=92. I won=92t lie th= at I=92ve pasted script into my terminal and spent time troubleshooting why= the commands didn=92t work only to realize I forgot to change to /bin/sh f= irst. Chris Stephan Sent from FreeBSD ________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org = on behalf of Baptiste Daroussin Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:36:45 AM To: current@freebsd.org ; arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Hello, TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confus= ing as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shel= l compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in interactive mode: * command completion (thanks pstef@) * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other sh= ells * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) * support for history as described by POSIX. This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propo= se to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed= ) If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this proposal happen. Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! Best regards, Baptiste --_000_SA1PR02MB8669B26ABC212799FF5B18E59BA29SA1PR02MB8669namp_-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 11:03:54 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE6617C409E; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:03:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oshogbo.vx@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f42.google.com (mail-lf1-f42.google.com [209.85.167.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDwPp0xPYz4wns; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:03:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from oshogbo.vx@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f42.google.com with SMTP id e15so10159613lfr.10; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:03:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=C1+J0HQ2XQV0w4PjyK97IHnUJXA1+0nZp/tQLF80gjA=; b=sHCiF+fIhHLudtLcd2s05TqqWDtxY01FbrGHEyfdzWT49wV5uj8r74DTFv8un7/cYg 0TKjdPTMkPXcKwIm0XIxZ0CRh2vC12gk+uhZpCyh68rcIHdU49QkyxFr4vzwFXdMTC6n 3tEy5Z9RM0RoaOAX4ULJiTgZwbloCuwaJQfx6Kde7cmFepFfWOXw6yoKiCgkr2F9gWqi IZyVL8pJflcy7OR/hwdyNFS1cwAWaevWcSNurpHiduLFhCtjm1AjnVYViSmNYjwaMcI8 tLsi2eAzK1dO5ENz+MbGd+tiZXx+w4+rbfxy+LRiXwal8cyGPK1VoCnfs06vXY6rCWGq en7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530INK8YtRBL1eRvYMvCgEx0Kdz5JjdXfwyYFcvW4OfcAeZhqOtz xkJ5jSE0MOCS2DH8ziJ7/w7y5Evo8FNHzXVQZ0IlAws2Lj4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwuHsPz9jOanAebeMKoTi15z/ztVR5MFbBkzqGVUroMN2PbZYUnpao07Uu8klez4KcheBYFjuSVUnYxRh9ucgY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1408:: with SMTP id u8mr9320903lje.253.1632308582575; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:03:02 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> In-Reply-To: From: Mariusz Zaborski Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:03:54 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: Chris Stephan Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , "current@freebsd.org" , "arch@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003a720005cc9375cf" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDwPp0xPYz4wns X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --0000000000003a720005cc9375cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 from me. On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 12:31, Chris Stephan wrote= : > I completely agree. It will save me the =E2=80=98/bin/sh=E2=80=99 at the = beginning of each > =E2=80=98su -=E2=80=98 session. Also, it will simplify building extra sma= ll FreeBSD images, > allowing an easier removal of =E2=80=98csh=E2=80=99. > > I use csh from time to time, but I do wish it would take a much more > explicit action so my brain has switched over to =E2=80=98csh mode=E2=80= =99. I won=E2=80=99t lie > that I=E2=80=99ve pasted script into my terminal and spent time troublesh= ooting why > the commands didn=E2=80=99t work only to realize I forgot to change to /b= in/sh > first. > > Chris Stephan > > Sent from FreeBSD > ________________________________ > From: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org > on behalf of Baptiste Daroussin > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:36:45 AM > To: current@freebsd.org ; arch@FreeBSD.org > > Subject: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root > > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > confusing > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne > shell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITO= R) > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not > MFCed) > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make th= is > proposal happen. > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > Best regards, > Baptiste > > --0000000000003a720005cc9375cf-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 12:39:37 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 674CE17CED80 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:39:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDyY75Pygz55FZ for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:39:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id v24so9418842eda.3 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:39:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=5cqzLBhSSot9WXlY6ccGCqtPaHBubxJOwCSZYnR4pIw=; b=OctRfBepPS8GQIsg3WRJCq633Uc2UNqLX0wPOE02kw00Y58sumaesBKwsnv0+WVs1O OPhcC70+Tver1j4Vogr07diipspFSkGrmf1bPw/C2RmepipYj+NjbWk8vJuf/j4Viuty GkJZXaPCRDi+MNESqPu8osNB2LFDgZVY5kzWLzsGBLmXA0SSgxpPSHZGg3/ch0xjQYjE u75hnQfrkc93X1iV19QM3vdh4/8lLNulr8lZ7qlNoFVNE1/tYpjX5b/3Gxm/+qVCw+W8 SQ8VEjyUsj0hW6JkywqOWWOh0uX7xnnki4L0gnjN5FkV0JWynO8at0NqYZ1UIrWmqtPw nnlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=5cqzLBhSSot9WXlY6ccGCqtPaHBubxJOwCSZYnR4pIw=; b=wgZbkIYe9VJ7ODMy61fBHv5vleC1nWYL/Q5dLAWPMIE7jHUUW9UTss9EEue9VMNfg1 CxrJM+Sa7RsRL4jIiiS26Urb6dd1psUlaamJGemv/AVSXI530Spy+3bW/NOo3hHGCBWY CpguVlZzn2ZmtM57GMZT+4DDQu3Dr/wTqhzVQxUBlzD45HqCIHPZM7kG8GAwBDfsnHK3 mu0MDcRz/eisfg90JRwD5GLU8Ag0c9B4EZ7NIMXE2Ae/rTsjcXp0H58gg2lMc+t3e+LZ 8FxinNoW5h4KAJcEKKnKclFIyiLvvo+AIDhGpmc6v2w3mdOx0XBkbWmNR3jDSh/R8qQK 2rgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531iMNSOduOB6RDO6h/Q1aB5N6XisNHCT+PCeqsEBGZPbbJoJB1P BE0KxZBNB0ozHrHGhPMDRMFaSXuxu9s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmeoTkCHEjf5Rksiw6vMp5EOz0ADiDrvwll4KTQNDaV+TCUdCFb29r9d9/HmtJ33iM7UqvwA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b104:: with SMTP id u4mr42497459ejy.201.1632314378562; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MacBook-Pro-van-Johan.local (85-147-130-226.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl. [85.147.130.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w25sm1161187edi.22.2021.09.22.05.39.37 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:39:38 -0700 (PDT) To: FreeBSD Current From: Johan Hendriks Subject: latest current fails to boot. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:39:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDyY75Pygz55FZ X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=OctRfBep; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johhendriks@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johhendriks@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52e:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 This is a vm running on vmware. If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. uname -a FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 From nobody Wed Sep 22 12:47:46 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8D5117D0609 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:47:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from mx.catwhisker.org (mx.catwhisker.org [107.204.234.170]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDykW3lDPz56XZ for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:47:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 18MClkEh047674; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:47:46 GMT (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 18MClk2r047673; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: Johan Hendriks Cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: David Wolfskill , Johan Hendriks , FreeBSD Current References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iLdRpc7IE6wabqTg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDykW3lDPz56XZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --iLdRpc7IE6wabqTg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 >=20 > This is a vm running on vmware. > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. >=20 > uname -a > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0=20 > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021=20 > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > .... I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either =66rom yesterday: FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n2= 49518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.= org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 or today: FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n2= 49556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.= org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines in sync rather aggressively.] Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --iLdRpc7IE6wabqTg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGTBAEBCgB9FiEE4owz2QxMJyaxAefyQLJg+bY2PckFAmFLJfJfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEUy OEMzM0Q5MEM0QzI3MjZCMTAxRTdGMjQwQjI2MEY5QjYzNjNEQzkACgkQQLJg+bY2 PcnWkAgAprcjMB1hZcFFF8xRe6SJiNaWR/+X8/OnsWgLwg6CHQ+Hz4eWCMVf9Q/R TPi8ChuP8FBQ8eluQCYfu0W7S9ZD7Hq+LZmG/J4ap+Ka7mw5WJPmfY/TaXDwU7F6 Od10bDEB7uNY21Xa3hxvq5rAlWAsDRJwoE4KtbrfTsgKRpCobznjNjCFqlYZZ4TM OTwjMn9xYqez5Pm5jll9y+ZYpiGmzgkxHqnx11VePnwajh4aO/pOvpJMCryD5kRP xPd3UWG0Q9KBL/rXvMJ4zPvorNdMKY/QDDnLHjfx0j1naGUEvZxVFmMmWTr/PAao s4wrK+i9fcGek6jtCbT8oN9XVKQEfg== =CqiU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iLdRpc7IE6wabqTg-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 12:59:23 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1E417D1D5D; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:59:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pstef@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDyzv3Zq9z58cT; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:59:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pstef@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632315563; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=kdJF+c4kWHe78CyiXZwcvlBi03+FrPqs0JGTCsflGhs=; b=N9VyPEBhVV4yt+hSjlHtP6qLdLzeATLnukJh/SYy2afGv1ZQI0bjo9EtehJRNMkX93x3Br YocHOyizTOPWl9b3gUBxbQIXOsTDi0YC9o2xfhfdTp5XactHRV5o84pcsG91RKF+F9zfIq v0O+NFxYQKHwo/q5pZvhDmAZwksZAS0aE7ePsjcc6QkBnOfBho4VpWP0C3fn+LrWcCPQYm X0IOhPZOHh6orWTn0e6oSM6FNe3bIfFscPQukAsVI4oAXppDhW1v9AgjV7BPxjXRjdouJD 1nFW/oNvXewjl4tUktXF2f7ST6hw1drvbxM81QdOcLNhBZVuI010AmH1jXE40Q== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1403) id 67309116A1; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:59:23 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:59:23 +0000 From: "Piotr P. Stefaniak" To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: current@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632315563; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=kdJF+c4kWHe78CyiXZwcvlBi03+FrPqs0JGTCsflGhs=; b=eyuBy+mSUEHNUx0sHRQpbc0+inPWPaBn4H2bbzDNqfRCL+ID73jLWQUQs5pnVG+QMelyEI WXJkgGwPzP4scIqDKQMmAiuBYLKob4JpsgiyxB0m454Ljms5XEYO1N6YLmUFMEa1BWHDKE wQbtWC/quUQhyVFn//O+pcsXZV11sqFmWSMXKhp/81tbqG5KI+Z8/vuWVdnBOeJZPmLlVo MfGy2Lppn1pSX0b15Ka27OHUKNRIdvv25y2U9vkpcegTWRdYdLy49ndEoIP9kMjmgMp7at Rfneno/WGSwTIU1HzI79JTB1W2Zw4RsKPvNzxSFUW6uRVlCvoqL0gDTd7DWeZQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1632315563; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ScxBRaE8tW6bo7ljGB3W5hMzDrbla6FauEvkE3mG2RlTjXOzEZdcAnV9w4HqZ8wZ6LfXo6 8BfXVf35ffmBgTddGZ+Jcu0tu2Yt60vgT63gRDePl9Rx+szmaTIciFlEZ8RaGs2Zb0drEo BykYAymJACa3hhSuQEmlgWHjsOf6TA9IIxAdJPt9YkKVmRR9qjLEDGcuLYrHTiLoy2Mpyb WdknW6LE//sRcMhfkZWdsjwGHhDHpywxgYRREQxehjU18kYUPPKAqD3ebjQrghvNI4XaJW YL3VfIkFW/WqgPJOa4qycncqHFrIMPrpUyyYzrmEZyQ78MvrqASVb6B3SRwU3w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2021-09-22 10:36:45, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in >interactive mode: >* command completion (thanks pstef@) >* improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells >* improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) >* support for history as described by POSIX. There are also prompt-related commits done by trasz: r342577 Make sh(1) collapse $HOME into "~" in PS1 r342576 Simplify the way we set the default sh(1) PS1 r342645 Add current working directory to the default sh prompt r342812 Give sh(1) a proper default prompt instead of just "$". r342881 Make sh(1) recognize the default $HOME r343231 Don't mess with BLOCKSIZE in shell startup files r343399 Make sh(1) support \u in PS1 r343416 Install .shrc for root, and set PS1 for the toor account. and this commit by me: r363621 sh(1): print a newline when ^D quits sh What I would like to see by default are these ctrl-arrow bindings in emacs mode and an alias for "history": bind "\\e[1;5C" em-next-word bind "\\e[1;5D" ed-prev-word alias history='fc -l' Piotr From nobody Wed Sep 22 13:00:49 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10EA317D2A4B for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:00:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garga.bsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf34.google.com (mail-qv1-xf34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f34]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDz1f4x7Hz3Bvn for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:00:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from garga.bsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf34.google.com with SMTP id z12so1840996qvx.5 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:00:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject :content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hZVNTvhVU+ICQi3Bmjz3cbOA+xaAp0/oX6u60EXCXsM=; b=BOWUjIUdHHcC+tODRNC8pI20rie17h2VGsyVx7vHIQOrd/QcrXcyqAVDeAehCP8X9N ShEbkGwQ+PWUcVMKqxrB7TYUEDGliGkHP99sYHtTPkNIKrVKfXZ0S2I9+BcXVpdiC0vn b+ICZMjAURTdPkPW9fQKSd9a5p1rmXXXpRe+1qtq9DKYVnwmxSBEUxKLptytCCsOKpw7 LGS3xpUsC7lhSQS+PHN9z6NO3ioPHqS3NY0dLpLGPcMSbnxXFGgF4Yk4gi0/xVnaqOIY s/trOxmcT1J3UC5on76Kx1hGQHhq+ZWfFZDEPR7iUi6Q2/eFjJR6ZF6LIgxUMy7HECLK l66w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent :subject:content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=hZVNTvhVU+ICQi3Bmjz3cbOA+xaAp0/oX6u60EXCXsM=; b=pRCZNN9/f9NryFY0wg9gMaxdYiMlcpF6HRAA2hKyDtF2O003uvNRHb++eVzRd/uiIk XP46t+kAj72J46H3pZl82gQNx8QjmDzFU/oAPFCZSkyl+pZb24DA6G6Wq90CPiiUZw6U I9GqdlYWZLDFwFJdjyX3Wpo3GQcd1y4VTiJ1H0C3r5zeSWPYDVb4I+HoQLGLmwcjL1Ae JqJRug0+ItouaDsnyFV2hxD4uZ9MUDWlATR7iFQ/1yGHbU8k764ZKxFDwgTP84t1yb3v A09YYRZ/dM2FTo9C8iXQGAdnlVZfjt5vibqpKlqGc6GApAWkgqY65sS3hvuQ9qrBeG6F tDfw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530AVvDv6nzV3wPKF42J/fmRoLrSU2aFV6E68SNS/05AAlnLzkJr 0p1WqFYOAbs/iPxiZ3+EtIw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwVKtvoV5oX09iCrC+gzEX6nznlEd0c90CCwARYwNSbtmANsrwCVu7/cxyS6hd3TVT3FpnFYA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:12b4:: with SMTP id w20mr36225589qvu.1.1632315653171; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.21.4.113] (dynamic-177-53-82-16.telecominternet.net.br. [177.53.82.16]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h68sm1697420qkf.126.2021.09.22.06.00.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 06:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2c69aac3-2169-f2ed-ef46-22f40f1d80f6@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:00:49 -0300 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.1.1 Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Content-Language: en-US To: daniel@morante.net, freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> From: Renato Botelho In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDz1f4x7Hz3Bvn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N +1 for keeping this behavior on default config On 22/09/21 06:19, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current wrote: > Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example > typing part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based on > history) > > On 9/22/2021 4:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> Hello, >> >> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >> >> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be >> confusing >> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne >> shell >> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >> >> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in >> interactive mode: >> * command completion (thanks pstef@) >> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like >> other shells >> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect >> $EDITOR) >> * support for history as described by POSIX. >> >> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to >> propose to >> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not >> MFCed) >> >> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make >> this >> proposal happen. >> >> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >> >> Best regards, >> Baptiste >> > -- Renato Botelho From nobody Wed Sep 22 13:34:27 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67111758881 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:34:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDzmW2JhMz3KNl for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:34:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 18MDYRjb028194 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:34:31 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 18MDYRjb028194 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 18MDYRK5028193; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:34:27 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:34:27 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Johan Hendriks Cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDzmW2JhMz3KNl X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > This is a vm running on vmware. > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > uname -a > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 You did not provided any useful information. What is displayed on console if you press ^T ? What processes are running, what do they wait for? From nobody Wed Sep 22 13:42:30 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3E61759CF1 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:42:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HDzxn0zKSz3MCR; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:42:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 18MDgUYU030582 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:42:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 18MDgUYU030582 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 18MDgUic030581; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:42:30 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:42:30 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Damjan Jovanovic Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD CURRENT Subject: Re: Using modern APIs in Rust on FreeBSD Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HDzxn0zKSz3MCR X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 06:27:09AM +0200, Damjan Jovanovic wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 6:08 AM Alan Somers wrote: > > > tldr; should the Rust ecosystem ditch FreeBSD 10 compat for new code? > > > > Rust uses FFI to talk to the OS's C library. That makes cross-compiling a > > breeze. Unfortunately, it also fossilizes the ABI. FreeBSD's libc makes > > careful use of ELF symbol versioning. That's how we were able to change > > ino_t to 64-bits while maintaining backwards-compatibility with old > > binaries, for example. But the Rust toolchain isn't able to take > > advantage. Right now, the toolchain uses a FreeBSD 10 ABI, and the libc > > crate (which virtually all crates depend on) uses a FreeBSD 11 ABI. > > > > How exactly is the ABI fossilized? If Rust's FFI uses run-time dynamic > linking, it should be able to use dlvsym() to access the correct version of > libc symbols. No, FFI does not use dynamic linking in dynamic sense, i.e. it does not utilize dlopen/dlsym. Rust directly calls into extern "C" functions, and this is quite useful feature, because using dlsym for everything you need from system libraries is beyond the pain point. Rust can link to specific version of the symbol, and libc uses this feature, like this: #[cfg_attr(all(target_os = "freebsd", freebsd11), link_name = "statfs@FBSD_1.0")] pub fn statfs(path: *const ::c_char, buf: *mut statfs) -> ::c_int; There it requests pre-ino64 statfs(). More, libc already has configurations for freebsd11 and later, as can be seen from the citation above. And I see nothing that would prevent libc from defining freebsd11 and freebsd12 variants of struct stat, struct statfs, struct dirent, and so on. That said, I definitely do not want spend (more) time on this. Due to the way libc is structured, to make an impression that definitions are shared between different *BSDs, it is extremely painful to add new bindings and not break other BSDs. I tried something as simple as adding missing MNT_XXX constants for mnt_flags and gave up after full day when I realized that I have to test on Net/Open/DragonflyBSD as well. From nobody Wed Sep 22 14:09:05 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D644175E109 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:09:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF0XX6Y6hz3QSZ for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:09:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-48-130-181.area1b.commufa.jp [123.48.130.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.16.1/8.16.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 18ME976f012196 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:07 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:05 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-Id: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF0XX6Y6hz3QSZ X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp has no SPF policy when checking 153.125.133.21) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.60 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[123.48.130.181:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sakura.ne.jp]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 David Wolfskill wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > > > This is a vm running on vmware. > > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > > > uname -a > > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > > .... > > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either > from yesterday: > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > or today: > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines > in sync rather aggressively.] > > Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my > environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? > > Peace, > david > -- > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. Failure mode: Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting hostid. -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Wed Sep 22 15:32:05 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7085F17C8912 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:32:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF2N76f96z3pmP for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:32:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id y89so750776ede.2 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:32:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=M/AlAQHrQlm3MtZhlSxqbYq2Pr8+7RIc49kzjb1IhTI=; b=ZYbIOkvH/HD/gJJ6vbo+/+T7iR0aX6AOREEWlmAJN8xbMHnLIMP5FdABMxwAWg2YLj s+c1CKD/gI28m2srqxInFJGAZ9No2KALrKAY8rZuIvb/TphUARFLNSL1d+FLal5Teoh+ 0+kIgOPbGmhNhsTvDQxeeUY2xeDn+vjRSffEuUqI4dXFRf++OU/BnM9WrgbYrAJa8e6l 0o5/LQGWUp5/RPD01+8zE1QJHsc/qD9lo/G/Z6rxbtaaGm0RT51TvkUQ4looPQJK6IB9 TywZHENGq5hvFHsmIRrGHTrB+/1zoOdzuGf84JGB3uhSaRSjeK5sq74+cqTL7LFJ7sIA 4MLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=M/AlAQHrQlm3MtZhlSxqbYq2Pr8+7RIc49kzjb1IhTI=; b=vZpJ2WBtrTmaX/pCtmBIhMU4WqwjTSkv6C3Qxu3YzP+yNajkFNjU4KIpvKA4ZUKK6R XwMAhiITtoE3mfPhA9NerKsFnnhxNdCjSF6/O8UQHYRJXiwY+gn9fEW0UHgzXVrmv+Gv 9Y/rGlNCXc2/Ms+u+ChKRRjYsp220E/Lrm1+dWqFp8vGRh/cnmE7ttFP2HRRnh6rTFOl 42mDxn05kMrPrRHskg8EDnnPt/xueSkzDFOvJY5g0OPxvJKuKwjNAywJRqdrtYze0KBQ Pg77stJYsgsyOG9E7SC85K0C1ikDvHD/lmdWfSYUUJ2V8BV4Djm755dstiTGXuNRAfoY AUGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532qtQxjxkBxR2pqTlgOVVnJzErLu0OiDN0jCtsrI40mDzTA9nkA /6xVXmuMJ1ffdYd/CdfooPXat+915dA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxul6D61s/F+RC9Efv12ZKaV5PEsQkl8duBVPmzB4M+Axttfdx8kbC8WHG4eCKwWs0a1uN8hA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:190a:: with SMTP id a10mr155875eje.474.1632324726572; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MacBook-Pro-van-Johan.local (85-147-130-226.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl. [85.147.130.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s4sm1201345eja.23.2021.09.22.08.32.06 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. To: FreeBSD Current References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Johan Hendriks Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:32:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF2N76f96z3pmP X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=ZYbIOkvH; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johhendriks@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johhendriks@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52e:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 22/09/2021 16:09, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 > David Wolfskill wrote: > >> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: >>> I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. >>> I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 >>> >>> This is a vm running on vmware. >>> If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. >>> >>> uname -a >>> FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 >>> main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 >>> root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 >>> .... >> I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either >> from yesterday: >> >> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 >> >> or today: >> >> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 >> >> [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines >> in sync rather aggressively.] >> >> Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my >> environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? >> >> Peace, >> david >> -- >> David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org >> Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. >> >> See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. > For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, > > Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce > Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 > > Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. > > Failure mode: > Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. > Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting > hostid. > For me a boot in single user works also. From nobody Wed Sep 22 15:34:58 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 916A517C9336; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF2RS3hQkz3qpm; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: from John-Baldwins-MacBook-Pro.local (ralph.baldwin.cx [66.234.199.215]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: jhb) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 01FB08C97; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:34:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> From: John Baldwin Message-ID: <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:34:58 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > proposal happen. > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from the default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably prefer removing it outright.) -- John Baldwin From nobody Wed Sep 22 15:42:22 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E2A017CB4CB for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:42:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF2c00tszz3t3f for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:42:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id i132so11370650qke.1 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:42:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hardenedbsd.org; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=Nu88Hanoju2Ds5idQe+MepmMZNG/+7QjpoJts4HOqGc=; b=ZJPzJACx7iBfp1S0uh9PRJhbfhcAd3Tn3JQEbLFHkwErJzzyOU3Pdbin7OSv/Tyu0f EVgPjwlomhFdTEVdcIPSCj4ve0qzUuo8TlxawrDJeSiBG+QG6ZNtwIZWsg9VOgq0+DKK FomqSEXNRXNvXa/i0B3a2KBsUInr5QhCT1XQF7s32Qh95eZCn6lyn6Zj0kI5OdR36DQs WDTOoVJuEMHphKbGw7b3c7vLAKW9VOIih4EQPnmxJh5BWTIgZtRDvOyG6i95z1tZBbQV nIskZcSXaIUdP05kEiWrC6ftyR1u5luL9jKkbo5UAVHs/wyyjXSKPqgb44yuLbZRwmSV dBtA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=Nu88Hanoju2Ds5idQe+MepmMZNG/+7QjpoJts4HOqGc=; b=W0OxRFeuWeRHRnKFXFe4Ebv671+Ntd/7o8o8nS8O2qTenm69b/EZyT+t2QqBSkaE3G MegK9WIzkuh8irKoWuwiqEHVaL56zwjMqHPVbz9P1oCiBxXCrAp/i3267gPlNpNqyIz7 nBUE+wNb+svUJ9t/0WIBHH8zyQAlG1EWkZ/U4crh9JrCESfBFmNJ8ZX3dO5kbbjsdhwu cHgefRBP348P790r60LH/l7wJqFnnJzHT1l7qaDmX8QqWXMvihtcd/515o5OFmcamwcj ClkvA0qJixu+isXnca8lFbgsX4nuZ1ld/A1ylLdZMjVA2PERjRVrpyjZkspU6B4FmDaz Qi8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530GhE8ZS75HEho3ntFnxTEYfb2AuoUZYWOGvJoR0i+Xh1+YM86C /CY5qapgUlxs62sweUKh+Ppax09C1ySID4j5yvg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwXKZEE1xnxE+CHm6avhj+PlUtEI2BDtOr9Bm/iXfxklgZ+OB659WtlNKNmDCnozVQtjyzO3A== X-Received: by 2002:a37:ab15:: with SMTP id u21mr501302qke.394.1632325343579; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd (pool-100-16-224-136.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net. [100.16.224.136]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a9sm2048117qko.27.2021.09.22.08.42.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:42:22 -0400 From: Shawn Webb To: John Baldwin Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210922154222.6bvnqk4kjjxewy6n@mutt-hbsd> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 14.0-CURRENT-HBSD FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT-HBSD X-PGP-Key: https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/blob/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ynlrt7so32gayaew" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF2c00tszz3t3f X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --ynlrt7so32gayaew Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > >=20 > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > >=20 > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be co= nfusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne = shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > >=20 > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like othe= r shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDI= TOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > >=20 > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to p= ropose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not M= FCed) > >=20 > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make = this > > proposal happen. > >=20 > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >=20 > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' f= rom the > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probab= ly > prefer removing it outright.) HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not use toor. [0]: https://twitter.com/HardenedBSD/status/1415781911063056389 Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A= 4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --ynlrt7so32gayaew Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAmFLTtsACgkQ/y5nonf4 4frLMQ//TWQDSx8vgbQt375Ujn9eP+uldHH69sY+4Cb0XdkgoJSm5t4UubeHjhr4 dVFoSmWTDoUW+mxdbLoAOKgSgYLrFbPqzgaZXOc7Oz0IBixQSNu2oFnba+JiDT9D gIkvupczjQziFELf44+Mkhp8awEchNjiwU76Nr3fIk0ZzOeWmzDyDbyVGs46+Uw0 QtH4nFvH/zSu2pMdq/r2vvhMKugUExHoczSQNV3tpL0IUaa4yAno8FnXTyvmbGag OBXLpu8tMrlwBOxVtLT7na1G94ZIqay+ECAs7PJuJdxqrvZiBOrzIMnIKRUy5Lnh 4A2s6fD/IX4zYd0RLBUnBx7+oTKi6OBVwYbBfHMywhbaOAfHrgNH4mnpVBx5re1b 7PfE2qUK65NXZEbqQZVGXWTSOolLE0SOUZSgEw1Mqa4ldktzUJm7JK7/lQRZx/Jr jy202LgpUXuv6usqN5GjjUGKbewFNkbwkXhadkqsnXV9fPdKbKRXg01KqmHeiU6A bUAal3IHv+mwx/JL8+c/dSmD/iZhDIho8uKFokKaIsINU+ESjFyNvUf4C1qLlfe4 v5hFCGVhRnLbfVRHGjyoDbW5ay7La2GKhcEUB+CQHtIt2HYZ1vFwl4hOtGv6WWT4 zmws1euGBi1vn8U9HhdT2HcTP/KljmE6QNwj4v/bXsM2zOy2Q+Y= =GJ7+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ynlrt7so32gayaew-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 15:52:53 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFE517CD783; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:52:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF2r8464xz3w7D; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:52:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 18MFqsil050410; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 18MFqsTS050409; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:54 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202109221552.18MFqsTS050409@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <20210922154222.6bvnqk4kjjxewy6n@mutt-hbsd> To: Shawn Webb Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:53 -0700 (PDT) CC: John Baldwin , Baptiste Daroussin , current@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF2r8464xz3w7D X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > > interactive mode: > > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > > proposal happen. > > > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from the > > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > > prefer removing it outright.) > > HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A > small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not > use toor. A truely disastisified customer does not complain, they simply go some place else for there products. Be carefull in what you believe silence to be saying. > > [0]: https://twitter.com/HardenedBSD/status/1415781911063056389 > > Thanks, > > -- > Shawn Webb > Cofounder / Security Engineer > HardenedBSD > > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From nobody Wed Sep 22 17:46:28 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8775817DAE04 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:46:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2b.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF5MT2rqvz4fvc for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:46:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2b.google.com with SMTP id k10so3772484vsp.12 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:46:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hVFe9Vs9k93QiGM5r6yNBX+TA0sm5iT7dSOSqyAFBeQ=; b=piG5X2EfSzxFJzRBtwnOHS4P1AAZIQOCkwwbQ2AfBGyPuaxyVV5o3JKLjBQZvkLmPc lJr5pMaST97btBs3AzKWQ9pvQtd2scBXXHtoKdPlU6XPrEzDuLZboAnCBDLCEYGOxik2 BQYZUMhFuCi3O2qUZD0OVXNlim/Ott/gQ1cMcO3tAbN2o24zt4dAYjoHOYJy0P1YQKRf rpETxhLs+O4g0VaTEIgkIALPD+JzkWX6igmWV8nd9ITFdNQjLRoMfcS+faKIP67F03aT wDB+PKRPgDWsXFI4SSwfncIH5HpI5awCnvnrjH32EGuFJN+x90PYpqXPTZnXCIhG+iUO mIbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hVFe9Vs9k93QiGM5r6yNBX+TA0sm5iT7dSOSqyAFBeQ=; b=F39kIY2y6t8WtBIVhbBFWlonnKVMe0g90nJ+mRtLFOxlivdCkkhQtlnmHbh0HN2GCI W6D8Z2D4JVj2BXoZtHJcM1WkCxSeNrNRX9jCJuo30Fb8UjoUcluU82k50vZPvPoHH74u rN5qR51LOZezGH0TMyW1ho/VcigULRHsqLL4yMY64GtHfUp4zqR+4sbVKdfbNmPaCm21 8fvHSZ5qMJEg/oUgnLYJnfMHFAPQyoJAVDAzDs3fZG57FdmWjKjB6RNHPYc647UberK0 LrAuiWUctn6kIHdGLS0dsaq6aihd31B3Vd8SAdWAbrNXxiDMLDnTIkwy7XdoerWQA7he kxmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532tBKwS3Mfmkr2E0GQ05qtkYB8oXWL+JIIZdgtRfs/p6Bh6VnaK pEZsCNus9bOLfU1wfWQaDfyAwmbPRJn3zZZb3kTQ3g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyEeeWumhygUVEoqG6D1N2ysuJy5p4b0RTNSQ8AX6pjrcELXr9ZfY9qoN0WCv7JvGUkF7IRq4Hz++o+rqLu9h4= X-Received: by 2002:a67:d589:: with SMTP id m9mr476310vsj.30.1632332799237; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:46:39 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:46:28 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: John Baldwin Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , FreeBSD Current , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a7719305cc99182c" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF5MT2rqvz4fvc X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --000000000000a7719305cc99182c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote: > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be > confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne > shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other > shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect > $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to > propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not > MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make > this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' > from the > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > prefer removing it outright.) > I think this is also fine. I also think we should remove toor from the default password file for one fewer attack surfaces. I strongly prefer this. Users that want toor can add it to their system and/or provisioning scripts. Warner --000000000000a7719305cc99182c-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 17:47:50 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5614717DB7CB; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:47:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF5Nq3ZgZz4fw3; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:47:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gljennjohn@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id h17so13075334edj.6; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8mBK2FQNSLLfvSC3ksODtFdE81pweAsdiue9j031yp0=; b=MFh4aXB9HWgmUi+ha7lrWuk66Ao5j7T1D8Av0O9eBR0TkApyzgBS2znVxI1ZnUBODs a7zZH5Pq8POlbyiBhhZCRzJbMnUZmddFdhx4xd7j5YbjC7SBbWTV9fG2X4CmY6usJUaz u0htdn9WIrPYfg+4G/VxshAxzddM8CokQq/pOszeRmlneznbo1lIJkVrQeV1y9bryjuO 4T7TvvXJ76Ee8DYJ9lC4HcWUeNcMxMbAPT8elFzjNczkixKEDE+AD66hASPt9zNDGeIC trc/ooKVn4dVGsdX8OjzWFVlqLJW4ibk/ZyZK768DM00duygi8tnKRKPDTbiVjc5i+Q2 0M4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8mBK2FQNSLLfvSC3ksODtFdE81pweAsdiue9j031yp0=; b=YwS7wDe1pKMYihC892TbMTlRpARpiT7VBMAkXsevR4sOmkbn7d2jkCaiFCMSd2WuIb tyb+K70MJVZfBEsjGsT4OvtW3+xfU9YQ/rqQ0XvORAG5q/f6kWlZevr9ImmH3ZLc0a5n Dr4sqiPOLuqbtJDpmKR0JkkniYjlY/oPyergLQkDsFT/4NM5i2pnUTny3FtRiaEuHUcI zmM8YV63TYaDgIi5ZCRVMQuN+4ECwr3dgebC8+pRXmKiiqZD0lUY/F6E8ouh0zhIVYBk 6kD9tFUyp874DBTHZiuT6opeyxvrh2olF7iZf44EgBUjuYXABRwq2HSdY58fzoMXSqXI KygQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5314pnjfzcGh/DT+VYdqM3EXrhyT2BzZiODrzyPgTsLe86RBI8u2 rHva2Ifcnaax9Q8gUqjNPMvQ7l0tYtE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+jIepKCCsTWOYYCnY6L+V52pbpJtz0lDHgCSr9QOEiNP872Vmm/wwWtg/9r3OvQF/TtqCPA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:6448:: with SMTP id l8mr433708ejn.301.1632332874515; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ernst.home (p5b023517.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [91.2.53.23]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q10sm1335628ejt.121.2021.09.22.10.47.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 10:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:47:50 +0200 From: Gary Jennejohn To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Shawn Webb , John Baldwin , Baptiste Daroussin , current@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210922194750.55af63d5@ernst.home> In-Reply-To: <202109221552.18MFqsTS050409@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <20210922154222.6bvnqk4kjjxewy6n@mutt-hbsd> <202109221552.18MFqsTS050409@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Reply-To: gljennjohn@gmail.com X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF5Nq3ZgZz4fw3 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:53 -0700 (PDT) "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > > > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > > > interactive mode: > > > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > > > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > > > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > > > proposal happen. > > > > > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from the > > > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > > > prefer removing it outright.) > > > > HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A > > small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not > > use toor. > > A truely disastisified customer does not complain, they simply > go some place else for there products. Be carefull in what you > believe silence to be saying. > I use toor on every FreeBSD machine as the root login using bash. I never log in as root. But removing it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I'd just put it back into /etc/passwd. > > > > [0]: https://twitter.com/HardenedBSD/status/1415781911063056389 > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Shawn Webb > > Cofounder / Security Engineer > > HardenedBSD > > > > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc > > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org > -- Gary Jennejohn From nobody Wed Sep 22 17:48:41 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5899817DC84F; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:49:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Received: from smtp4-2.goneo.de (smtp4.goneo.de [IPv6:2001:1640:5::8:59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF5QP2WLCz4gdG; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:49:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Received: from thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de (dynamic-078-055-082-025.78.55.pool.telefonica.de [78.55.82.25]) by smtp4.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 12D3B2040D8B; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:49:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:48:41 +0200 From: FreeBSD User To: FreeBSD CURRENT Cc: freebsd-toolchain@freebsd.org Subject: WITH_LLVM_BINUTILS: objcopy: error: invalid output format: 'efi-app-x86_64' *** [boot1.efi] Message-ID: <20210922194904.363c239a@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> Organization: walstatt-de.de List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF5QP2WLCz4gdG X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@walstatt-de.de has no SPF policy when checking 2001:1640:5::8:59) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@walstatt-de.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.99 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[78.55.82.25:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[walstatt-de.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.890]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25394, ipnet:2001:1640::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hello list, Trying to "crosscompile" a 13-STABLE appliance on 14-CURRENT ( FreeBSD 14.0= -CURRENT #8 main-n249550-8db1669959ce: Wed Sep 22 05:39:53 CEST 2021 amd64) with WITH_LLVM_BINUTILS=3DYES set in /etc/src.conf (and a complete fresh rebuild of the whole OS afterwar= ds) results in some serious fallout lately. Compiling a recent, just updated this minute, 13-STABLE source, I face this= error now and relate this to the llvm-binutils:=20 [...] - --- boot1.efi --- if nm boot1.sym | grep ' U '; then echo "Undefined symbols in boot1.sym"; = exit 1; fi SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH=3D1451606400 objcopy -j .peheader -j .text -j .sdata -j = .data -j .dynamic -j .dynsym -j .rel.dyn -j .rela.dyn -j .reloc -j .eh_frame --output-target= =3Defi-app-x86_64 boot1.sym boot1.efi=20 objcopy: error: invalid output format: 'efi-app-x86_64' *** [boot1.efi] Error code 1 I guess this is fallout from the binutils migration and compiling 13-STABLE= on 14-CURRENT host is a special case. Can this be fixed easily or is the migration process to = immature at this point? Kind regards, Oliver Hartmann=20 - --=20 O. Hartmann Ich widerspreche der Nutzung oder =C3=9Cbermittlung meiner Daten f=C3=BCr Werbezwecke oder f=C3=BCr die Markt- oder Meinungsforschung (=C2=A7 28 Abs.= 4 BDSG). -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQSy8IBxAPDkqVBaTJ44N1ZZPba5RwUCYUtsZgAKCRA4N1ZZPba5 R9JSAQDozG5xwFhGxPTbhOPCJ731/GrxdI0lfjERziGMbXbg7QEApvkWChAKg9NM Ztgos3LH/+1Q9/gQ9CTYQbebxgcRgQM=3D =3D8J4u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=20 O. Hartmann From nobody Wed Sep 22 17:54:39 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A71F17DD4A7; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:50:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thj@freebsd.org) Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF5S43lGPz4hsQ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:50:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thj@freebsd.org) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC1F32009DF; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:50:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=+Z6vyI Zk1P1+31ZVgw2vuv5Mtf6Y+i5fTkUe5x4P/XU=; b=YOJVv2rrALXgCVV12+YCCX eF7v6kZf1gIAxEeEl8Lqut+44ZSF0eO3ighhzTH5yllwsyi2HOI/mImgaV+loAlb xKNqe/FpEZgWVuHuhlvGmgUEyDmVV5eimT4JBBf3E0Ky96T57VCnaI1DZ+NshqUr R0hnpVTmRLZQTP5k45G53MEHIfP8KnrQQSKUL0zulXN+GhcSsiuXCOA59P3p9FQa Zilh3iHyXzAzOk/SkLrzCstXz844WNlEmMCheLCWvgmuZ0Nhyh5DkqeMaFOnF4Fx 0i3Nyo4i59x9+v88tr6frqomsEgpoPVrH/0R1GDk5OPLZ3Tch7oPjzikrGmhoMUg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddrudeijedguddujecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesthdtredttddtvdenucfhrhhomhepvfhomhcu lfhonhgvshcuoehthhhjsehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpe etgfejgfekueetuddvgfdtgeeijeehudekgeffgfevtefflefgteeufeffkeeuheenucev lhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehthhhjsehfrh gvvggsshgurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 18:54:39 +0100 From: Tom Jones To: John Baldwin Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210922175439.GD16760@tom-desk.erg.abdn.ac.uk> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF5S43lGPz4hsQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from the > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably > prefer removing it outright.) I support both of these suggestions, when I first installed FreeBSD ~2006 toor already felt like a strange an anachronism. - Tom From nobody Wed Sep 22 19:26:41 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059EB17C06AA for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:26:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (plan-b.pwste.edu.pl [IPv6:2001:678:618::40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "plan-b.pwste.edu.pl", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF7Zv5VYxz4v6W; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:26:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from fomalhaut.potoki.eu (dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 18MJQfth066455 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:26:41 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; s=plan-b-mailer; t=1632338802; bh=REUW2M33B6NQkfiqF/cVL2jsaASA6srG44byHZANvAM=; h=To:Cc:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ACq2t16FlZubFc6hNaIildVT3UwkDUgL5KE+0Qv5IRYRDfypiEs6cY0056GpyCll1 09EprqiVDtacV3RQZasaGN1/dZ9TgmsKZ0tINMkImcp8riGChMwldscLZLbPXDh2gA MIkMIUV2cwADFGbTmPzGU4A0LqBxlzEFKYgAnRxOJ6en1l+ezgCOcLymlrT9sAaXCL lf7pTIRMYfjXTP5o2gwoJKKV3Tp07I2Vt/WyDq9RVFMLIXIvVuafR6YedmeoIM9ood j5M8DvcSpTRByFBgvvZJtZKlDICWIhByDRhL1mL955rlooZETevwmTx1eEZfFj3271 CpOFsSMJ3UhMQ== X-Authentication-Warning: plan-b.pwste.edu.pl: Host dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50] claimed to be fomalhaut.potoki.eu To: Warner Losh , John Baldwin Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , FreeBSD Current References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> From: Marek Zarychta Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <41db45d4-42bf-8ef9-a2b8-6ffb8ff6aacb@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:26:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0bCj84pdqxVKfrifdOd8J9klap8oxVfKw" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF7Zv5VYxz4v6W X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0bCj84pdqxVKfrifdOd8J9klap8oxVfKw Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="j4xIWRNgQPsEXs4nt54IhU36MUTId0GxD"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marek Zarychta To: Warner Losh , John Baldwin Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , FreeBSD Current Message-ID: <41db45d4-42bf-8ef9-a2b8-6ffb8ff6aacb@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: --j4xIWRNgQPsEXs4nt54IhU36MUTId0GxD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable W dniu 22.09.2021 o=C2=A019:46, Warner Losh pisze: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote: >=20 >> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >>> >>> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be >> confusing >>> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourn= e >> shell >>> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >>> >>> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly i= n >>> interactive mode: >>> * command completion (thanks pstef@) >>> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like ot= her >> shells >>> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect >> $EDITOR) >>> * support for history as described by POSIX. >>> >>> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to= >> propose to >>> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not= >> MFCed) >>> >>> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will mak= e >> this >>> proposal happen. >>> >>> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >> >> I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor= ' >> from the >> default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would pro= bably >> prefer removing it outright.) >> >=20 > I think this is also fine. I also think we should remove toor from the > default > password file for one fewer attack surfaces. I strongly prefer this. Us= ers > that want toor can add it to their system and/or provisioning scripts. >=20 > Warner >=20 I am curious which attacks you are referring to since I have never heard of attacks on toor account. I have seen a lot of malware attacking root, admin, nobody, and other accounts, but never toor. TBH toor might be handy as a backdoor account if you are familiar with FreeBSD enough to take advantage of it. It can also act as an account of last resort when someone breaks into your system and changes root password, wipes ssh keys etc, so it cuts both ways, not even mentioning POLA. The transition from csh to sh as a default root's shell will probably save some CPU cycles for people using Chef, Ansible, etc thus pushing FreeBSD toward green computing. Sysadmins bound to csh will be fine until it remains in the base system and chsh works. I shouldn't probably post here since I am only a voice from the userbase but can't help doing so. Kind regards, --=20 Marek Zarychta --j4xIWRNgQPsEXs4nt54IhU36MUTId0GxD-- --0bCj84pdqxVKfrifdOd8J9klap8oxVfKw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsB5BAABCAAjFiEEnjwyTmqn2oNX6C8qHZW8vIFppoIFAmFLg3EFAwAAAAAACgkQHZW8vIFppoJt Ewf9GgL58eDj6I1NxT+eJN0FKd6hBrlJoiOtsir1ylc7Ha7OlF3Ys2mR55lXfO3xCnyAlzga3av4 MHYyhRH/7QiiGJljiUmqvFJDe6yLsC6CkEeMCdZqlA0bqs5zbar3uQ2neG/S6363jJdU6IKMnwuV 5FRJG+lGYBBpgBl7/vDRYvz0yqUKdHn4XFaaUliOnpaH88tx0vQ/JaApQLv+GSw6dqdLZoC84GHO GpbkOhHa7Fg/yUZIrqUNnj6lHkrG02Y0C39R+9+V7KN6vLLCj87VUP38VckASELdUsvvUBF4zUDB 6ykxcinHr8NzFrL7WayGlf7KfzroRvBeuq8zkeNerg== =MJOP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0bCj84pdqxVKfrifdOd8J9klap8oxVfKw-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 20:03:40 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D586F17C584B; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 20:03:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from haramrae@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x530.google.com (mail-ed1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF8Pg5Pz0z3Fhk; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 20:03:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from haramrae@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x530.google.com with SMTP id v10so9754812edj.10; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:03:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LP9345UFqKByATTCg+73Uliw71Mpn7Bww4MdX1LbZnw=; b=kcGQGhtpUKlElAIaTI3kcjniUpDvvCb+GOcGvHXy34hJxtisemrgiLspCmjyp0U/3T JKbG+SIzeYTSh3N6nKBBFYRa7/ryVkC1Whsld2uwa1FBs27dCD6brj4AIq6/F95JgQxp VxKxLl8Qly5an1D+kQ8Eq8oAJiIxZxh/zTfg8LJW7ILnDsqwbNaqgckb5QeANLdr1cOd e+BNUJ3eYGBOsBn0q5gVrHK6VO2kTDGDJL6AJ310M5FpPSOOk7tWLUSYd4egrH+3YURS xWs/oaa9f+7srxHP4k7kb6v4IVDMgZkUc57HmSG+Fafyix+QXcAqzUGYzQo0iRVpCuKV /u7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LP9345UFqKByATTCg+73Uliw71Mpn7Bww4MdX1LbZnw=; b=vcr70ZSaipk6d14BEc0eXUNwntmvqcz9KwFDXdV1wuGZih9rWqLCW5IDGI/TaFiqYo 9Yr5jNdKd/dq4XOmpg0pJigoUn0oXTN6M2dBH6rpjZr/tyQUVXnz2gxL790HrGOsdIq6 VFzOjfWcPauU+UAhg96oB5EvgmJ8CSYtNAmvrlBcY1dcgG1fcA+1o0PJIeoQxcRI7xjg Xfy4l+Oaf30N7Lr1stnabWnRajLim6v7cVkj6Yq1xaxb4BLGv7u2OFuc6p681Dz41MEO KM7hICTSukKntVv6Bh2PNymh8ibhZhL5EgdxrI1H3sOTKxl56xBrBo6+snox6DpXYZPJ yPEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531K6J2O8J9ABRMGwY8XhABOW4d5E8s0wCSLRLbwoUSrDcyfBi6u 007uJztzEI4MfBgds/X51QTjtUeuC8qMJw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxvz00/3KKsqp2icsIzK1eyEjDyyUoOkBfsDdAINXVAl36bF0Trrfp4jZ47IwTlx7nzfqlOjw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:3283:: with SMTP id 3mr1156259ejw.4.1632341024845; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hollewijn.internal (217-19-30-105.dsl.cambrium.nl. [217.19.30.105]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p23sm1820849edw.94.2021.09.22.13.03.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root From: Alban Hertroys In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 22:03:40 +0200 Cc: current@freebsd.org, "arch@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9A7E9AB0-1A59-4E8C-86EC-EFD8A3147112@gmail.com> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> To: Baptiste Daroussin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF8Pg5Pz0z3Fhk X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >=20 > Hello, >=20 > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! (=E2=80=A6) > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like = other shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect = $EDITOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. >=20 > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to = propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not = MFCed) My one concern is this: what is the impact of these usability = improvements to sh on its usage in scripts? I can imagine that there is merit to having a separate shell that is = optimised for scriptability and script performance and having a = different shell for user interaction. It seems to me the former was a = primary purpose of sh? How much =E2=80=9Cweight=E2=80=9D did it gain in = becoming more user friendly and how will that impact script performance? I=E2=80=99ve been using FreeBSD with some frequency since 2.2.5 or so, = so I am used enough to getting csh as root shell to not be able to see = the problem that this change is trying to solve. Call me biased. My purpose is just to throw in a different point of view here, I=E2=80=99m= not a big sh script user myself (I think I wrote less than a dozen over = the years), this is not something for me to judge. Alban Hertroys -- There is always an exception to always. From nobody Wed Sep 22 20:50:03 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3955917CA410; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 20:50:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x929.google.com (mail-ua1-x929.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::929]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HF9R629g4z3K9b; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 20:50:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x929.google.com with SMTP id d4so2780250uak.2; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:50:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Z0tTEfaG4QEq2o49KvT0fRyUTL2OxMkSOlMqRfKfbZ8=; b=kXCXZHcnb+CVcSDj6/hVMWV/mgHS9wD37D9bWAzyyRbsomJ3KKZdx0iPQiPtf+AbJt 9vp/VUzFXQTBpLzwev7A5qmvzrMMmLt9YkQXqr9rVt9yjLhZOBJRZJtwURIo7b99PjZE x9d8NLnuKgdT+kZk5UxGgGkDf409cVS3BpGNThFFeuEsuArlcNpMW5gLtd1q4rR87oeL GHk6Nb0vnw5FN5ZkOyfEtvJMqoZizTQNN+1ufLJL9UJx9gIkQCPTmE38sGQQcDNQH4d3 yhIaizHeCxi8EwEV3Y7LOpwVAlF4xmWKFNTxnQQFI8CdAc2ENpSLMzBoFgsf79tx4C7E Yz5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Z0tTEfaG4QEq2o49KvT0fRyUTL2OxMkSOlMqRfKfbZ8=; b=QNOiFVs/SfDQLDN0Q9TgpZ6Dn7vmc+oQldOpLdqbyvczkGPuRuD07u7k2W9yNKj51B 5c+TFBQ1cJ+MIbf/lX5P3rM6pg+TIj8Ly/hSmB0VyM4SVbpTG4adsilFkG2PoGYgrjwQ HkMpwFr0aAjxreUbZToj/RlAaZEGi7ONYiFmjDqCUMnQDMrpS4kGWwEZDKPwVmdSJxqO zcekgoD3oIOkOv9GdVZF2c+GywWQzHIjCjD5y3p0QOXWqq+AzZX0NCaOJoaB0JYd+60R 1EjbSTJHY0Tt8FfDn1DN3q6TqAeMvwKOYFubk9RLyIukAORqUtmUhe1NRyQKycuhDOVC 8B3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533/JgEEdXS8KfEe9r8GNtuEaiSyc7QZhXSM29/GW18zfhF8TWG4 S2M5df7YcSJ1i+21cUWrFChAxbM4VP9j88bgyftfQJr5MY1AYiT1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzcY1i4cwGqHv59+Gimil4EbwVU6gPgqmiFi8woBi7VzaGNjkrkSO20CUsoqzwiq9Brfsou0tXqpPgaDtC+Of0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6130:40d:: with SMTP id ba13mr1618002uab.124.1632343804098; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:50:04 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a59:5706:0:b0:231:f367:1438 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:50:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> From: grarpamp Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:50:03 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: current@freebsd.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF9R629g4z3K9b X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=kXCXZHcn; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grarpamp@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::929 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grarpamp@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::929:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE Make it so. The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of sh, not csh. So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update, needed for decades. Even "bash" is a majority spoken shell in Linux/world, helping make crossovers if BSD becomes a bit more bash-like. The bsd sh feature updates are filling useful/needed capability gaps. "csh considered harmful" toor needs to go as part of simple cruft removal for a cleaner base, else you would have to add zoor, koor, boor, toor, etc. No no no no! Nobody leave FreeBSD just to get run csh on their windows command prompt ;) Users are always free to customize local installs as desired. BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make. Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups, if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features. From nobody Wed Sep 22 21:23:36 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE0D17CDA75 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:23:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=W0wO=OM=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net) Received: from ns2.wilbury.net (ns2.wilbury.net [IPv6:2a01:b200:0:1:f816:3eff:fecd:13e6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "svc.wilbury.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFB9y2dgmz3MxS for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:23:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=W0wO=OM=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net) Received: from smtpclient.apple (gw-upc.owhome.net [188.167.168.254]) (Authenticated sender: juraj@lutter.sk) by svc.wilbury.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2006B45CF4D for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:23:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Juraj Lutter Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EDA190A0-301D-417F-A8DB-18475EB51C44" List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:23:36 +0200 References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> To: freebsd-current In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_SOFTFAIL autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on ns2.wilbury.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFB9y2dgmz3MxS X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of "SRS0=W0wO=OM=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net" has no SPF policy when checking 2a01:b200:0:1:f816:3eff:fecd:13e6) smtp.mailfrom="SRS0=W0wO=OM=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.70 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[otis@FreeBSD.org,SRS0=W0wO=OM=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:44185, ipnet:2a01:b200::/32, country:SK]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[otis@FreeBSD.org,SRS0=W0wO=OM=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --Apple-Mail=_EDA190A0-301D-417F-A8DB-18475EB51C44 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hello, >=20 > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >=20 >=20 > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to = propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not = MFCed) >=20 Thanks for this! What I miss a bit is a completion triggered by = delete-char-or-list-or-eof (^D) as it was in (t)csh. otis =E2=80=94 Juraj Lutter otis@FreeBSD.org --Apple-Mail=_EDA190A0-301D-417F-A8DB-18475EB51C44-- From nobody Wed Sep 22 21:45:18 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE8F17D08F3 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:45:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFBg13pnyz3Pw6; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:45:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 18MLjJxX033957; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:45:25 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 14:45:18 -0700 From: Chris To: Marek Zarychta Cc: Warner Losh , John Baldwin , Baptiste Daroussin , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <41db45d4-42bf-8ef9-a2b8-6ffb8ff6aacb@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <82d7f4d1-5ce9-c7ed-d993-b16b3ddac6e3@FreeBSD.org> <41db45d4-42bf-8ef9-a2b8-6ffb8ff6aacb@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <5a4cdaefd2fb38097adf597d411fe924@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_0e9b29a9b84f80a4f556fe267bab1763" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFBg13pnyz3Pw6 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --=_0e9b29a9b84f80a4f556fe267bab1763 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2021-09-22 12:26, Marek Zarychta wrote: > W dniu 22.09.2021 o 19:46, Warner Losh pisze: >> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 AM John Baldwin wrote: >> >>> On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >>>> >>>> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be >>> confusing >>>> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne >>> shell >>>> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >>>> >>>> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in >>>> interactive mode: >>>> * command completion (thanks pstef@) >>>> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other >>> shells >>>> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect >>> $EDITOR) >>>> * support for history as described by POSIX. >>>> >>>> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to >>> propose to >>>> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not >>> MFCed) >>>> >>>> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make >>> this >>>> proposal happen. >>>> >>>> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >>> >>> I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' >>> from the >>> default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would >>> probably >>> prefer removing it outright.) >>> >> >> I think this is also fine. I also think we should remove toor from the >> default >> password file for one fewer attack surfaces. I strongly prefer this. Users >> that want toor can add it to their system and/or provisioning scripts. >> >> Warner >> > > I am curious which attacks you are referring to since I have never heard > of attacks on toor account. I have seen a lot of malware attacking root, > admin, nobody, and other accounts, but never toor. In the 30 some yrs I've been on UNIX and the likes. I've only ever known ~half a dozen administrators that ever choose toor. Those that want to continue doing so, will not be prevented from continuing to do so. > > TBH toor might be handy as a backdoor account if you are familiar with > FreeBSD enough to take advantage of it. It can also act as an account of > last resort when someone breaks into your system and changes root > password, wipes ssh keys etc, so it cuts both ways, not even mentioning > POLA. TBH this is a non-issue. toor is simply an alias to root. Anyone that has a root hacked system need only spin up the FreeBSD mini iso/img, mount their hacked system && hack back into shape. :-) Props to all the work and proposed changes here. Thanks! :-) --Chris P.S. This is NOT a bike shed. > > The transition from csh to sh as a default root's shell will probably > save some CPU cycles for people using Chef, Ansible, etc thus pushing > FreeBSD toward green computing. Sysadmins bound to csh will be fine > until it remains in the base system and chsh works. > > I shouldn't probably post here since I am only a voice from the userbase > but can't help doing so. > > Kind regards, --=_0e9b29a9b84f80a4f556fe267bab1763 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xBDE49540.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xBDE49540.asc; size=5028 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGDTzGEBCADHlXdS4V57s2soaEK2wi3o9rr9zo7to/giBSxCpFYJxOnPkL5A 2ibbvflrL8sWvAczx47wgDS7iIhzICBBRdnXtcFGnoeeriV27LSn+PcpnIB+DaWZ xe+6TDC0Z0JUJ7qDTjUBFzhnQGYlrVvc4WbnWTjJaB1LEwgIX8JqX5S3SX0/oXgs +OtqDuENZ4/a5te5xPnspTv/5NJHjqYGxjHP0Vw0KjRKS1AoJ1SBPSMQV5373AX9 5NzFS+CjqeQhjfHFPeRajQ8t4T6eqhKA7LtKMO1egeAwNehk9ZoEqEBT2+ojuKUd oSuzqvhhx+eUIYLFqoPSzMKR+YbStzergsbnABEBAAG0KUNocmlzIEh1dGNoaW5z b24gPGNocmlzaEB1bHRpbWF0ZWRucy5uZXQ+iQFrBBABCABVBgsJBwgDAgQVCAoC AxYCAQIZAQIbAwIeARgYaGtwczovL2tleXMub3BlbnBncC5vcmcWIQQGJAsyyBlk 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TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFKYk6whGz4bGL; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 02:56:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: from aniel.nours.eu (nours.eu [IPv6:2001:41d0:8:3a4d::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5D40E56C; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 02:56:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: by aniel.nours.eu (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 243FFB4449; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 04:56:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 04:56:25 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Alban Hertroys Cc: current@freebsd.org, "arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210923025625.wtufdwbmq47qsxbv@aniel.nours.eu> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <9A7E9AB0-1A59-4E8C-86EC-EFD8A3147112@gmail.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <9A7E9AB0-1A59-4E8C-86EC-EFD8A3147112@gmail.com> X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:03:40PM +0200, Alban Hertroys wrote: > > > On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > (…) > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > My one concern is this: what is the impact of these usability improvements to sh on its usage in scripts? None, those are in a code path with doesn't get executed when in non interactive mode. Best regards, Bapt From nobody Thu Sep 23 03:55:12 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8888917D650E for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 03:55:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFLsc3WqGz4h3S; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 03:55:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632369316; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=7s7GbL36TevvB6JPkRTBY5Bv012+szPjHkHraYZHq8U=; b=Sr21xAPa4/PEzVEN5vRY6gPYvP4hbe3We9Cv5exmQbND4CGTSEiJmST7IoO1jBKOjcKdZ+ bU15HuTf+nlXqvE+gjrhDq+JkjDz1vvFT+Fpq61KiG62ZzN9cd1brfb5zCd8fwM+KlAY1G d7dJJ2GYUxvtWsOncqn59Swb6GNbfIG6d1ozJIR8vLN6Wyl4PEuwYmhaYasljGxu8zCdrt a68UBHnFplGi4/Yi8JKq2QeTj/lBy/Gf36kYoNHic48eB4SKcOpVbUCAV4GctmLGTm7V/n 2z8ElBZ2TCKaaF+f3Y2Ut2rP3TV12TPltGu8xnEeh6o6E0ByNbgHqzCCjIH5dw== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id 5AC0614BFA; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 03:55:16 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: grarpamp Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 05:55:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: (grarpamp@gmail.com's message of "Wed, 22 Sep 2021 16:50:03 -0400") Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632369316; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=7s7GbL36TevvB6JPkRTBY5Bv012+szPjHkHraYZHq8U=; b=tvCW6Zw579bPlSeuMepqX22h36Whjnk5ASs3MmDKwfHXwHaf9QGa3WYsS7NG4nEaIFlsl9 T0/BRdc64kBRywzZw+SWAz/7yk9g6f5CtoU78DgphOB73N83I/07LnawG5r54S9VQHps5w A2OFGTdKhv2BEIovSAVOH4U60m+PYy37s4+rTGGuMcd5qX7dMPeK++gZmEt+E7f8CxvPJS hAyMJxE6Y9kdouhHwPwVxoCIym1rjPcCy1uw0Q4UkT8hm+agT9XV+5DOBMrUGVxYnSJBJf IdbE0PgvjZNoOg0jWL5MuIUOkX5vx/eQRnpZy6s8zxJnbrpfCgQRA6mJ590+/w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1632369316; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=O/5WqxcO/jpuC95iB7Kej2nPiNYcWc7/UMAxMgnRIEm36s0dqH7VBmFxvigh6NKl3F9NIL 32SwkIeM6Mtr+gFTbxGm9rbsGmhCmMFZhmfhpgaaNg0Y63f95TvdjjFnA2J4v3ggwl/e8P iIl6/BQx5L/E2XmhASfsEIblMSzvLoVNtGM9y7y6YwDz357t9EWtB3AGnTx2LmanJwg0u/ UNIRHkCbU8iwblEqkb7xqF7ZyDh5zsAk5DuQxW2RdiRSySPBkk5qG2wWhEp23ZkIPFDIUQ HraMD0dktK8/F8XVzBtJwTLdmy7fKpMhe9gBqcKMhcn7nslnSKPi5fjP5MNQlg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N grarpamp writes: > BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of > its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make. > Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups, > if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features. Like https://github.com/shellspec/shellbench ? I did check a month ago (on 2021-08-31) but forgot NetBSD sh(1). Obviously, the results may vary per OS/version/architecture/hardware. $ ./shellbench -s sh,dash,busybox/sh,bash,zsh,oksh,ksh93,yash sample/*.sh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- name sh dash busybox/sh bash zsh oksh ksh93 yash ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- assign.sh: positional params 1,983,164 747,830 666,979 443,083 551,071 875,915 479,129 395,225 assign.sh: variable 2,405,745 827,904 741,112 616,017 1,308,457 1,013,153 588,698 510,636 assign.sh: local var 2,398,554 834,027 747,871 603,486 1,293,027 1,007,511 error 503,410 assign.sh: local var (typeset) error error error 616,483 1,306,641 1,011,383 544,136 504,782 cmp.sh: [ ] 1,628,216 567,700 465,761 352,438 336,288 713,738 518,768 297,987 cmp.sh: [[ ]] error error error 480,974 595,441 903,502 613,269 376,550 cmp.sh: case 2,527,633 1,196,339 1,024,253 606,588 632,811 959,232 628,183 450,893 count.sh: posix 1,640,683 717,178 589,330 463,934 907,140 700,233 376,361 398,937 count.sh: typeset -i error error error 452,029 907,541 652,885 385,585 error count.sh: increment error error error 581,631 1,264,962 845,738 581,111 error eval.sh: direct assign 1,670,797 564,299 518,082 308,709 198,714 722,050 285,150 279,020 eval.sh: eval assign 1,102,774 393,161 332,925 194,636 156,834 476,164 173,156 192,191 eval.sh: command subs 2,188 5,828 4,830 2,208 1,597 5,015 ? 4,302 func.sh: no func 2,451,641 836,115 756,258 614,579 711,116 1,087,770 571,210 507,644 func.sh: func 1,947,254 596,731 542,519 349,748 187,903 845,681 306,506 313,989 null.sh: blank 3,094,116 error error error 1,529,326 1,304,367 error 593,711 null.sh: assign variable 2,419,811 845,676 751,887 669,694 1,374,858 1,012,724 599,490 533,401 null.sh: define function 2,687,933 1,259,149 1,076,947 661,432 1,270,777 1,085,654 584,490 525,184 null.sh: undefined variable 2,445,429 839,334 750,904 505,147 631,862 1,048,805 473,900 501,851 null.sh: : command 2,418,617 839,744 742,385 610,307 701,972 1,064,089 565,323 500,879 output.sh: echo 1,518,368 669,539 620,417 404,729 544,030 781,488 540,064 380,174 output.sh: printf 1,481,745 632,454 535,170 395,649 534,303 1,556 258,827 365,724 output.sh: print error error error error 542,740 775,812 353,320 error subshell.sh: no subshell 2,330,179 819,359 729,753 571,353 705,892 1,005,262 560,780 485,498 subshell.sh: brace 2,343,747 833,142 728,803 554,948 568,470 984,156 557,069 413,438 subshell.sh: subshell 3,444 6,917 2,814 1,190 3,578 3,391 240,738 2,570 subshell.sh: command subs 1,871,462 3,806 5,966 2,766 2,709 4,564 146,388 3,691 subshell.sh: external command 1,112 996 579 893 2,190 2,529 1,728 1,778 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * count: number of executions per second From nobody Thu Sep 23 04:23:48 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2FA17D9D77 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 04:23:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFMVc2Bmgz4lMs; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 04:23:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632371032; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: references:references; bh=/wr8STXp4EXtltpq0xgKYG6f+CGAjFMQ7B61zk0kYik=; b=purbnp9vUUnApaeXElx43nWhhYf5aO/SN3AkkYxA+hrmgProOZNPEeaFe3jzLMA5HzZR/u LYXhg8VAeYUMBfMK2iRoYfdRijh5fwj3kZAqYj640YRWWAgTCHV8YEOk9kGUNMhnbRa9IO qgdfUobQZkcIC4tXY4+gr/ZA3TgRc6h0pBJKBHsf2iJUee0zxG/AgP1GGy835E767W5asl zr9O9Qo+oxuVw92d80LRh7k/RmMMkcfGoRQcJRNVVL7koxP7inQnC8wD5277f5gK9UfKse 0zQ4Lpb8EeVDyafjMbdCY6C8KCRRLdXFJ7jT7iYLnJ9L660zgmwPUzPwRj6AvA== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id 1A1A214DBC; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 04:23:51 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: grarpamp Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 06:23:48 +0200 Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632371032; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: references:references; bh=/wr8STXp4EXtltpq0xgKYG6f+CGAjFMQ7B61zk0kYik=; b=P3/iS25UC/zg4WGjdX6z/xO9XsDT7DzCQhsBu7J8tnOJO+zZ4Atv8H1ZnagzPxld0FsvRe Xp5NxMZV3ukHPVVxvFVzx6nQ3khuE4zRgUAjsaaTnrPBJShqdoHAt5+FOa45+NKt1sXaGA 73SYNdXRAp6rbn44/Z/o52DVubSvy/RvsVqeuC+LS5hLUjTTctzo3YqNBT+ubKeJY0l/ws +Q0ZvIn2H2mkiv67kXP1KGAglgax22qlbXOfRBmTh2s4aXh7boR8GbpdkZumJFHvl0uCdU KfKd1wmuOGmN3psRUvWGcyyNpCLPuYIgWMr+X/pRYp5nyOBWAEmaqSM/ep1P5Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1632371032; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=WNy1U2hwnpBR0kDX9xOgVYAhgJDyLbE4aLBM1+IWbTZ/+4soP4+cUXixO+5Vd5uSQXG76t nkSHkquzpJpHYzJ4y8rDSojLT2kRsx04jvLldyjc7xJQ0P4loYg4QJSO0qhuZE9YxdZRAP vgHSPS2hjJjT2VVJn28UjEiIcbhDWxRYoE1+iAfyxYWPPEDBd4LTM6YizUyAJE1XgvQCjk Jb2/3pGyCEfEsz3sDGW5sMD5LPsEYoT8INmnNkoTS5cWR5V4rOauHyJIG2Hx6X1blU0cP6 PxYd/ejXzoarsy8aJALf0VRxgZBkgMUcCn7AK5xQG930J/2TUik44OI+YA4Imw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Jan Beich writes: > grarpamp writes: > >> BSD community can definitely volunteer to make benchmark of >> its shell vs others, determine if and where improvements to make. >> Many apps never get checked for obvious speedups, >> if so it might become fastest shell even with the new features. > > Like https://github.com/shellspec/shellbench ? > I did check a month ago (on 2021-08-31) but forgot NetBSD sh(1). > Obviously, the results may vary per OS/version/architecture/hardware. Nevemind. I've tested inside jail (probably 12.2 amd64) instead of -CURRENT. From nobody Thu Sep 23 07:16:36 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E98517C30AF for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:16:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ale@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFRKy6mgHz3FYx for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ale@FreeBSD.org) Received: from ale.bitgold.com (151-0-207-195.ip282.fastwebnet.it [151.0.207.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ale) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7CBD4201F2 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:16:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ale@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <2c69aac3-2169-f2ed-ef46-22f40f1d80f6@FreeBSD.org> From: Alex Dupre Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:16:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2c69aac3-2169-f2ed-ef46-22f40f1d80f6@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N +100 for keeping this behavior on default config ;-) On 22/09/21 15:00, Renato Botelho wrote: > +1 for keeping this behavior on default config > > On 22/09/21 06:19, Daniel Morante via freebsd-current wrote: >> Will history/completion continue to work the same way? (for example >> typing part of the command, pressing UP and having it complete based >> on history) -- Alex Dupre From nobody Thu Sep 23 07:46:53 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 409C717C77C9; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:47:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=x/NU=ON=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFS130gxqz3KpF; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:47:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=x/NU=ON=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78A428416; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:46:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from illbsd.quip.test (ip-78-45-215-131.net.upcbroadband.cz [78.45.215.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DE38528411; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:46:53 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: grarpamp , current@freebsd.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Message-ID: <3f7d159b-9f32-e88c-360e-35f8c4b12e23@quip.cz> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:46:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFS130gxqz3KpF X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote: >> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE > > Make it so. > > The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of sh, not csh. > So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update, > needed for decades. > > Even "bash" is a majority spoken shell in Linux/world, helping > make crossovers if BSD becomes a bit more bash-like. More bashism and linuxism in BSD world, you are waking the devil. > The bsd sh feature updates are filling useful/needed capability gaps. Moving to sh without maintain the same history search behavior (start of the command and Up & Down arrows) are like cutting one leg. The (t)csh is what I really like on every FreeBSD machine. Never seen good configured bash (prompt + history search) on any other OS I ever visited. Not saying it is not possible but if FreeBSD will switch default shell to something else I expect to do it the way that it is more user friendly and powerful than on other OSes where everything is leaved to "users can customize it". Current state of sh behavior is really that "bad" way. If you want to catch users on sh, do it better, please! > "csh considered harmful" > > toor needs to go as part of simple cruft removal for a cleaner base, > else you would have to add zoor, koor, boor, toor, etc. No no no no! > > Nobody leave FreeBSD just to get run csh on their windows command prompt ;) > > Users are always free to customize local installs as desired. It cuts both ways. If users are free to customize they can switch from current default csh to sh and no change in base is needed. Miroslav Lachman From nobody Thu Sep 23 07:55:37 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7FE17C9627; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:55:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFSCK2ZCGz3MST; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:55:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from hps2020.home.selasky.org (unknown [178.17.145.105]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 70421260361; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:55:50 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>, grarpamp , current@freebsd.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <3f7d159b-9f32-e88c-360e-35f8c4b12e23@quip.cz> From: Hans Petter Selasky Message-ID: <3bde04d9-4479-c89e-7005-775832bd2334@selasky.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:55:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.12.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3f7d159b-9f32-e88c-360e-35f8c4b12e23@quip.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFSCK2ZCGz3MST X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Hi, I've always used "tcsh" for root. The little help you get on the command line to search and repeat commands is very useful compared to plain "sh". Sorry for top-posting. --HPS From rmd@orbit.in-berlin.de Thu Sep 23 08:13:02 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A4817CC429 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 08:13:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmd@orbit.in-berlin.de) Received: from einhorn-mail-out.in-berlin.de (einhorn.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.in-berlin.de", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFSbC1pGMz3Qsj for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 08:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmd@orbit.in-berlin.de) X-Envelope-From: rmd@orbit.in-berlin.de X-Envelope-To: Received: from localhost (yak.in-berlin.de [192.109.42.109]) by einhorn.in-berlin.de with ESMTPS id 18N8D2QQ006779 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:13:02 +0200 Received: from p200300daa70f4e00b1e1ac275ddedee3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (p200300daa70f4e00b1e1ac275ddedee3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [2003:da:a70f:4e00:b1e1:ac27:5dde:dee3]) by webmail.in-berlin.de (Horde Framework) with HTTPS; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:13:02 +0200 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:13:02 +0200 Message-ID: <20210923101302.Horde.kQlN5_c-mrjaAY0QN0wtgns@webmail.in-berlin.de> From: "Rolf M. Dietze" To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <3f7d159b-9f32-e88c-360e-35f8c4b12e23@quip.cz> In-Reply-To: <3f7d159b-9f32-e88c-360e-35f8c4b12e23@quip.cz> User-Agent: Horde Application Framework 5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFSbC1pGMz3Qsj X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rmd@orbit.in-berlin.de has no SPF policy when checking 192.109.42.8) smtp.mailfrom=rmd@orbit.in-berlin.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.20 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[192.109.42.8:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[orbit.in-berlin.de]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29670, ipnet:192.109.42.0/24, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[192.109.42.8:from] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>: > On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote: >>> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE >> >> Make it so. >> >> The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of >> sh, not csh. >> So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update, >> needed for decades. >> >> Even "bash" is a majority spoken shell in Linux/world, helping >> make crossovers if BSD becomes a bit more bash-like. > > More bashism and linuxism in BSD world, you are waking the devil. > >> The bsd sh feature updates are filling useful/needed capability gaps. > > Moving to sh without maintain the same history search behavior > (start of the command and Up & Down arrows) are like cutting one leg. > > The (t)csh is what I really like on every FreeBSD machine. Never > seen good configured bash (prompt + history search) on any other OS > I ever visited. Not saying it is not possible but if FreeBSD will > switch default shell to something else I expect to do it the way > that it is more user friendly and powerful than on other OSes where > everything is leaved to "users can customize it". Current state of > sh behavior is really that "bad" way. we are talking of the default sehll for the root user. One does not really work as root user, but if son nothing stops who ever wants to to exec zsh or exec tcsh? Whoever wants is free to add other users with root pemissions is free to do so. Rolf M Dietze From nobody Thu Sep 23 08:44:19 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D48317D0673 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 08:44:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=x/NU=ON=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFTHB6mlRz3kQq for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 08:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=x/NU=ON=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BA42842B; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:44:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from illbsd.quip.test (ip-78-45-215-131.net.upcbroadband.cz [78.45.215.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AFC3A28416; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:44:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: "Rolf M. Dietze" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <3f7d159b-9f32-e88c-360e-35f8c4b12e23@quip.cz> <20210923101302.Horde.kQlN5_c-mrjaAY0QN0wtgns@webmail.in-berlin.de> From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:44:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210923101302.Horde.kQlN5_c-mrjaAY0QN0wtgns@webmail.in-berlin.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFTHB6mlRz3kQq X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 23/09/2021 10:13, Rolf M. Dietze wrote: > > Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>: > >> On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote: >>>> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD >>>> 14.0-RELEASE >>> >>> Make it so. >>> >>> The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of >>> sh, not csh. >>> So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing >>> update, >>> needed for decades. >>> >>> Even "bash" is a majority spoken shell in Linux/world, helping >>> make crossovers if BSD becomes a bit more bash-like. >> >> More bashism and linuxism in BSD world, you are waking the devil. >> >>> The bsd sh feature updates are filling useful/needed capability gaps. >> >> Moving to sh without maintain the same history search behavior (start >> of the command and Up & Down arrows) are like cutting one leg. >> >> The (t)csh is what I really like on every FreeBSD machine. Never seen >> good configured bash (prompt + history search) on any other OS I ever >> visited. Not saying it is not possible but if FreeBSD will switch >> default shell to something else I expect to do it the way that it is >> more user friendly and powerful than on other OSes where everything is >> leaved to "users can customize it". Current state of sh behavior is >> really that "bad" way. > we are talking of the default sehll for the root user. One does not > really work as root user, but if son nothing stops who ever wants to > to exec zsh or exec tcsh? It seems like "nobody" and "everybody" mistaken words. If "one" really does not work as root user then what is the meaning of the first paragraph from Baptiste's message and why change something? Miroslav Lachman From nobody Thu Sep 23 08:55:57 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5748617D2058; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 08:56:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hans@beastielabs.net) Received: from lb2-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net (lb2-smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net [194.109.24.28]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.xs4all.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFTXl2fPPz3lsy; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 08:56:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hans@beastielabs.net) Received: from cust-b45927b3 ([IPv6:fc0c:c11f:1a16:eab0:99de:cb24:256:b84d]) by smtp-cloud7.xs4all.net with ESMTPSA id TKWLm0iHlISvdTKWNmtAOb; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:56:00 +0200 Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> From: Hans Ottevanger Message-ID: <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:55:57 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfDwXLTV9EBextqRsgc6zTg3xU4SeWBb+rxdrztD40abPcpz80t79S7d4qh5d2eQMrir+1AcSMzTdiZap4stpGCb58UdApQXQdbobIoNuB5lSdJbT2cbq 0suw3ORdNWIch+Ys3YEZO6SBG4TbXQQ/0hIOlpRAFD10B6Jcnr0EzcyDU+IiiykQPo0//zNm6sVtLAj+iUXswe/iL8D6Fo3HWJ7Rtg8eHg8TjYMDcR1e8y9J FEEwlO3eJuo8y+r3AhlquAbfhVX+NwJPwwRXYzFUypc= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFTXl2fPPz3lsy X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hans@beastielabs.net has no SPF policy when checking 194.109.24.28) smtp.mailfrom=hans@beastielabs.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.20 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[beastielabs.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[194.109.24.28:from]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3265, ipnet:194.109.0.0/16, country:NL]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[194.109.24.28:from] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hello, > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > proposal happen. > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > Best regards, > Baptiste > Hello, I applaud the proposal to change the default login shell of root to /bin/sh. As you mention the rest of the Unix(-like) world has used a Bourne-like root login shell forever. It is one of the first things I change on a new FreeBSD install anyway. While there, you could change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to something more sensible, e.g. just "Superuser". I know Charlie is there since 4.2BSD, but the reference to a long forgotten baseball player is probably lost by now. Also, a lot of explanation is often needed when users receive (automated) emails from Charlie Root. Once the login shell of root has changed to /bin/sh, I do not see any reason to keep toor around. It is there since 4.3BSD, but I don't know anybody who uses it in the long term. Many will just change the login shell of root to a Bourne-like shell right away. I have experimented a bit with the new usability features of sh in 14.0 and I must say that it was quite a positive experience. I could easily suppress the urge to install and use bash instead of sh. I wonder if the changes (but not the ones to /etc/passwd) could be MFC'd in a few months, once they have matured a bit, so they would land in 13.1. As you mention elsewhere in this thread, usage in scripts is not affected by these changes. And for interactive use it could be a POLA violation, but the astonishment would be a positive one. -- Kind regards, Hans Ottevanger Eindhoven, Netherlands. hans@beastielabs.net www.beastielabs.net From nobody Thu Sep 23 09:29:59 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C00517D63C0 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:30:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@urgle.com) Received: from cheddar.urgle.com (cheddar.urgle.com [IPv6:2001:8b0:df9a:69f3:b67a:f1ff:fe2c:6bed]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFVHz6P5Cz3qKt for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:30:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@urgle.com) Received: from mike by cheddar.urgle.com with local (Exim 4.94.2 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1mTL3H-0009xO-Uo for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:29:59 +0000 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:29:59 +0100 From: Mike Bristow To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <2c69aac3-2169-f2ed-ef46-22f40f1d80f6@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2c69aac3-2169-f2ed-ef46-22f40f1d80f6@FreeBSD.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFVHz6P5Cz3qKt X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mike@urgle.com has no SPF policy when checking 2001:8b0:df9a:69f3:b67a:f1ff:fe2c:6bed) smtp.mailfrom=mike@urgle.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.10 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[mike]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[urgle.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20712, ipnet:2001:8b0::/32, country:GB]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:00:49AM -0300, Renato Botelho wrote: > +1 for keeping this behavior on default config -1 for this. Things should be as default-as-possible, so that the behaviour of /bin/sh as root on FreeBSD is unsuprising to someone used to /bin/sh on other systems or users, because they won't be used to the magic config. I have no problem with a section of root's .profile having the approprate magic commented out so that folk who want this can easily have it, of course. Cheers, Mike -- Mike Bristow mike@urgle.com From nobody Thu Sep 23 11:38:27 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012FE175A37C; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:38:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFY866QlSz4VVR; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:38:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (unknown [195.64.148.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: avg/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 67F0722319; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:38:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: installworld with NO_ROOT produces paths with .. for man pages From: Andriy Gapon To: FreeBSD Current , doc@FreeBSD.org References: Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:38:27 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 28/08/2021 17:28, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > This seems to be related to the recent change to install manual pages for all > platforms. > > My method of creating a cross-platform installation image is to install with > NO_ROOT and then to tar up with @METALOG argument. > On the destination I simply untar the archive into a destination directory > (typically a fresh ZFS BE). > > Today I noticed some complaints when extracting the archive, here is a few: > ./usr/share/man/man4/i386/../smapi.4.gz: Path contains '..' > ./usr/share/man/man4/i386/../vpd.4.gz: Path contains '..' > ./usr/share/man/man4/powerpc/../adb.4.gz: Path contains '..' > ./usr/share/man/man4/powerpc/../akbd.4.gz: Path contains '..' > > This is a not a big deal but would be nice to "straighten" the installation > paths when installing such manual pages. > > P.S. > NO_ROOT does not seem to be documented outside of the source code. > I think that it would be nice to fix that .. issue. Any suggestions? -- Andriy Gapon From nobody Thu Sep 23 13:08:49 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848F217C1F1C; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:08:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFb8N3P1Qz4c7x; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:08:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: from aniel.nours.eu (nours.eu [IPv6:2001:41d0:8:3a4d::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C26E23222; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:08:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@FreeBSD.org) Received: by aniel.nours.eu (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 073D6B54AD; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:08:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:08:49 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Andriy Gapon Cc: FreeBSD Current , doc@FreeBSD.org, fernape@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: installworld with NO_ROOT produces paths with .. for man pages Message-ID: <20210923130849.xu3dnggm6gdcfple@aniel.nours.eu> References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 02:38:27PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > On 28/08/2021 17:28, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > > > This seems to be related to the recent change to install manual pages > > for all platforms. > > > > My method of creating a cross-platform installation image is to install > > with NO_ROOT and then to tar up with @METALOG argument. > > On the destination I simply untar the archive into a destination > > directory (typically a fresh ZFS BE). > > > > Today I noticed some complaints when extracting the archive, here is a few: > > ./usr/share/man/man4/i386/../smapi.4.gz: Path contains '..' > > ./usr/share/man/man4/i386/../vpd.4.gz: Path contains '..' > > ./usr/share/man/man4/powerpc/../adb.4.gz: Path contains '..' > > ./usr/share/man/man4/powerpc/../akbd.4.gz: Path contains '..' > > > > This is a not a big deal but would be nice to "straighten" the > > installation paths when installing such manual pages. > > > > P.S. > > NO_ROOT does not seem to be documented outside of the source code. > > > > I think that it would be nice to fix that .. issue. > Any suggestions? MLINKS+=${_manpage} ../${_manpage} so install(1) does what it is asked to do and write it do the metalog as such. First it is a bad idea to have .. in mlink as we are creating hardlinks, so we could have a cross device issue. The issue was reported when those links were added: 0a0f7486413c https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/dev-commits-src-all/2021-July/009164.html imho the right way to do this would be to have a new kind of macros which would create relative symlinks using ${INSTALL_RSYMLINK} to replace MLINKS Best regards, Bapt From nobody Thu Sep 23 13:16:09 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E7517C34C9; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:16:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from land.berklix.org (land.berklix.org [144.76.10.75]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HFbK25Kjtz4dws; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:16:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p4fc4cd5f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.196.205.95]) (authenticated bits=128) by land.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPA id 18NDGFre000806; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:16:15 GMT (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id 18NDG9ZX003737; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:16:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 18NDG9jN004992; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:16:09 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <202109231316.18NDG9jN004992@fire.js.berklix.net> To: gljennjohn@gmail.com cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Shawn Webb , John Baldwin , Baptiste Daroussin , current@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com/jhs/ User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:47:50 +0200." <20210922194750.55af63d5@ernst.home> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4990.1632402969.1@fire.js.berklix.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:16:09 +0200 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFbK25Kjtz4dws X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jhs@berklix.com has no SPF policy when checking 144.76.10.75) smtp.mailfrom=jhs@berklix.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.03 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:144.76.0.0/16, country:DE]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[79.196.205.95:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[jhs]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[berklix.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.966]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Gary Jennejohn wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 08:52:53 -0700 (PDT) > "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: = > > > > On 9/22/21 1:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: = > > > > > Hello, > > > > > = > > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > > = > > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh ca= n be confusing > > > > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a = bourne shell > > > > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > > = > > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user frien= dly in > > > > > interactive mode: > > > > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > > > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default li= ke other shells > > > > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respe= ct $EDITOR) > > > > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > > = > > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would li= ke to propose to > > > > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE= (not MFCed) > > > > > = > > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I wil= l make this > > > > > proposal happen. > > > > > = > > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BA= SE! = > > > > = > > > > I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing '= toor' from the > > > > default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would= probably > > > > prefer removing it outright.) = > > > = > > > HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A > > > small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not > > > use toor. = > > = > > A truely disastisified customer does not complain, they simply > > go some place else for there products. Be carefull in what you > > believe silence to be saying. > > = > > I use toor on every FreeBSD machine as the root login using bash. > I never log in as root. Toor has been an occasional lifeline during re-build dissters. Need root & toor to have different executables, & home directories & passwords, & no environment vars on one etc. > But removing it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I'd just put it > back into /etc/passwd. Ditto. `One Best Tool' debates can consume time. Best keep time for other things, ( eg I've an interesting regression to ch= ase: 12.2-RELEASE OK, but 12.2-STABLE & 13.0-RELEASE Generic kernels panic on boot & wont produce a /var/crash/vmcore.2 & won't drop into DDB ). Cheers, -- = Julian Stacey http://berklix.com/jhs/ http://stolenvotes.uk From nobody Thu Sep 23 14:41:43 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3741F17CBA50; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:42:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFdCw00K3z4mQC; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:42:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 18NEfikr013708; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:41:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:41:43 -0700 From: Chris To: Hans Ottevanger Cc: Baptiste Daroussin , current@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <974e635cf69727d1d6b1518f00f98777@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_c4a8fb71f22d7baf2f088e71488ffc97" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFdCw00K3z4mQC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --=_c4a8fb71f22d7baf2f088e71488ffc97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2021-09-23 01:55, Hans Ottevanger wrote: > On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> Hello, >> >> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >> >> For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be >> confusing >> as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne >> shell >> compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. >> >> Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in >> interactive mode: >> * command completion (thanks pstef@) >> * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other >> shells >> * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) >> * support for history as described by POSIX. >> >> This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to >> propose to >> make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not >> MFCed) >> >> If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this >> proposal happen. >> >> Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! >> >> Best regards, >> Baptiste >> > > Hello, > > I applaud the proposal to change the default login shell of root to /bin/sh. > As > you mention the rest of the Unix(-like) world has used a Bourne-like root > login > shell forever. It is one of the first things I change on a new FreeBSD > install > anyway. > > While there, you could change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to something > more > sensible, e.g. just "Superuser". I know Charlie is there since 4.2BSD, but > the > reference to a long forgotten baseball player is probably lost by now. Also, > a lot > of explanation is often needed when users receive (automated) emails from > Charlie > Root. > > Once the login shell of root has changed to /bin/sh, I do not see any reason > to > keep toor around. It is there since 4.3BSD, but I don't know anybody who > uses it > in the long term. Many will just change the login shell of root to a > Bourne-like > shell right away. > > I have experimented a bit with the new usability features of sh in 14.0 and > I must > say that it was quite a positive experience. I could easily suppress the > urge to > install and use bash instead of sh. I wonder if the changes (but not the > ones to > /etc/passwd) could be MFC'd in a few months, once they have matured a bit, > so they It was mentioned in the OP this *wouldn't* be MFC'd. An aspect I'm glad to hear. > would land in 13.1. As you mention elsewhere in this thread, usage in > scripts is > not affected by these changes. And for interactive use it could be a POLA > violation, but the astonishment would be a positive one. --Chris --=_c4a8fb71f22d7baf2f088e71488ffc97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xBDE49540.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xBDE49540.asc; size=5028 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGDTzGEBCADHlXdS4V57s2soaEK2wi3o9rr9zo7to/giBSxCpFYJxOnPkL5A 2ibbvflrL8sWvAczx47wgDS7iIhzICBBRdnXtcFGnoeeriV27LSn+PcpnIB+DaWZ xe+6TDC0Z0JUJ7qDTjUBFzhnQGYlrVvc4WbnWTjJaB1LEwgIX8JqX5S3SX0/oXgs +OtqDuENZ4/a5te5xPnspTv/5NJHjqYGxjHP0Vw0KjRKS1AoJ1SBPSMQV5373AX9 5NzFS+CjqeQhjfHFPeRajQ8t4T6eqhKA7LtKMO1egeAwNehk9ZoEqEBT2+ojuKUd oSuzqvhhx+eUIYLFqoPSzMKR+YbStzergsbnABEBAAG0KUNocmlzIEh1dGNoaW5z b24gPGNocmlzaEB1bHRpbWF0ZWRucy5uZXQ+iQFrBBABCABVBgsJBwgDAgQVCAoC AxYCAQIZAQIbAwIeARgYaGtwczovL2tleXMub3BlbnBncC5vcmcWIQQGJAsyyBlk cuwsSYsYdR58veSVQAUCYNQl+wUJA8LAmgAKCRAYdR58veSVQN3NB/sFTeXrZeDk ml/dshET8QbkOPgXlnibk8+Mauf+y9LjS9WT7R8EmqhK7T7aw115JQ1RWTM6kpQM 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server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFdN428wlz4pd6 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:49:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 18NEn05L056166; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:49:07 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 07:49:00 -0700 From: Chris To: Mike Bristow Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <2c69aac3-2169-f2ed-ef46-22f40f1d80f6@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <0becb052a12bb9ee0f61e258e79d3e65@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_585ab636efc81d1624f636c4cbbd71af" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFdN428wlz4pd6 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --=_585ab636efc81d1624f636c4cbbd71af Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2021-09-23 02:29, Mike Bristow wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:00:49AM -0300, Renato Botelho wrote: >> +1 for keeping this behavior on default config > > -1 for this. > > Things should be as default-as-possible, so that the behaviour of > /bin/sh as root on FreeBSD is unsuprising to someone used to /bin/sh > on other systems or users, because they won't be used to the magic > config. > > I have no problem with a section of root's .profile having the > approprate magic commented out so that folk who want this can easily > have it, of course. OK this bit confuses me. If you logon as root. Then simply exec vipw(8) and change the default shell to (t)csh. The .cshrc template will sucked out of /etc/ into /root/ where you'll live happily ever after. No (un)commenting involved. :-) --Chris > > Cheers, > Mike --=_585ab636efc81d1624f636c4cbbd71af Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xBDE49540.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xBDE49540.asc; size=5028 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGDTzGEBCADHlXdS4V57s2soaEK2wi3o9rr9zo7to/giBSxCpFYJxOnPkL5A 2ibbvflrL8sWvAczx47wgDS7iIhzICBBRdnXtcFGnoeeriV27LSn+PcpnIB+DaWZ xe+6TDC0Z0JUJ7qDTjUBFzhnQGYlrVvc4WbnWTjJaB1LEwgIX8JqX5S3SX0/oXgs +OtqDuENZ4/a5te5xPnspTv/5NJHjqYGxjHP0Vw0KjRKS1AoJ1SBPSMQV5373AX9 5NzFS+CjqeQhjfHFPeRajQ8t4T6eqhKA7LtKMO1egeAwNehk9ZoEqEBT2+ojuKUd oSuzqvhhx+eUIYLFqoPSzMKR+YbStzergsbnABEBAAG0KUNocmlzIEh1dGNoaW5z b24gPGNocmlzaEB1bHRpbWF0ZWRucy5uZXQ+iQFrBBABCABVBgsJBwgDAgQVCAoC AxYCAQIZAQIbAwIeARgYaGtwczovL2tleXMub3BlbnBncC5vcmcWIQQGJAsyyBlk cuwsSYsYdR58veSVQAUCYNQl+wUJA8LAmgAKCRAYdR58veSVQN3NB/sFTeXrZeDk ml/dshET8QbkOPgXlnibk8+Mauf+y9LjS9WT7R8EmqhK7T7aw115JQ1RWTM6kpQM 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server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFfZQ573zz4tms for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:43:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-48-130-181.area1b.commufa.jp [123.48.130.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.16.1/8.16.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 18NFh1gD017604 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:43:01 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:43:01 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-Id: <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Reply-To: junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFfZQ573zz4tms X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp has no SPF policy when checking 153.125.133.21) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.59 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[123.48.130.181:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.990]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sakura.ne.jp]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:05 +0900 Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 > David Wolfskill wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > > > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > > > > > This is a vm running on vmware. > > > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > > > > > uname -a > > > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > > > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > > > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > > > .... > > > > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either > > from yesterday: > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > or today: > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines > > in sync rather aggressively.] > > > > Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my > > environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? > > > > Peace, > > david > > -- > > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > > Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. > > > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. > > For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, > > Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce > Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 > > Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. > > Failure mode: > Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. > Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting > hostid. > > -- > Tomoaki AOKI > Additional info and correction. *Hung up before setting hostuuid, not hostid. *^T doesn't respond at all, only hard power off worked. *`kldload nvidia-modeset.ko` on single user mode sanely work. Why I could know rc.conf is started to be processed: I have lines below at the end of /etc/rc.conf and its output is always the first line related to /etc/rc.conf, at least for non-verbose boot. The next line is normally "Setting hostuuid: " line, which was not displayed when boot hung up. kldstat -q -n nvidia.ko if [ 0 -ne $? ] ; then echo "Loading nvidia-driver modules via rc.conf." if [ -e /boot/modules/nvidia-modeset.ko ] ; then kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia-modeset.ko" else kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia.ko" fi fi -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Thu Sep 23 16:40:50 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1486617D7A7A for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:41:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFgs74tCMz3Fx3 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:40:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 18NGeoq7054728; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 18NGeow0054727; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:40:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202109231640.18NGeow0054727@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <20210923101302.Horde.kQlN5_c-mrjaAY0QN0wtgns@webmail.in-berlin.de> To: "Rolf M. Dietze" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:40:50 -0700 (PDT) CC: freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFgs74tCMz3Fx3 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > > Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>: > > > On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote: > >>> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE > >> > >> Make it so. > >> > >> The whole rest of rc, pkg, base scripts and subsystems use a lot of > >> sh, not csh. > >> So this is a good compatibility, consistancy, and gotcha-removing update, > >> needed for decades. > >> > >> Even "bash" is a majority spoken shell in Linux/world, helping > >> make crossovers if BSD becomes a bit more bash-like. > > > > More bashism and linuxism in BSD world, you are waking the devil. > > > >> The bsd sh feature updates are filling useful/needed capability gaps. > > > > Moving to sh without maintain the same history search behavior > > (start of the command and Up & Down arrows) are like cutting one leg. > > > > The (t)csh is what I really like on every FreeBSD machine. Never > > seen good configured bash (prompt + history search) on any other OS > > I ever visited. Not saying it is not possible but if FreeBSD will > > switch default shell to something else I expect to do it the way > > that it is more user friendly and powerful than on other OSes where > > everything is leaved to "users can customize it". Current state of > > sh behavior is really that "bad" way. > we are talking of the default sehll for the root user. One does not > really work as root user, but if son nothing stops who ever wants to > to exec zsh or exec tcsh? > > Whoever wants is free to add other users with root pemissions is free > to do so. That is a zero sum argument. Ie, same can be said about those who wish to have the current default changed. Changing that default is actually going to require NEW special casing of any code that expects the now 30+ year default. Those who DO like it changed, have already made changes to have it changed, so changing the default only adds to work for both parties, to me a net loss. Leave the defaults alone, provide tools and such to make it easier for people to tweak those defaults on install. Stop adding work to both the people who like how it is now, and people who like the idea of this change, its not productive for anyone. > Rolf M Dietze -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From nobody Thu Sep 23 16:47:17 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EEA175919B for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pstef@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFh0P4bp1z3HXG; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pstef@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632415637; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jR7nywxX7qGFcjMaWH3h8cveRorBKYup1obg+ZC7KI4=; b=NijhTJ+Vfu/wB5gCBZ+LR+E639AeLV/NAT3aqg3tHdyxKJ2qnDY83Y6lnnGRZqYmpNBSkY Zi7Tipe9T+SxfKZImt5aEkCAyWYz9jy9sOWqlXjxgyychcfRmFM78PTwbAjUQGLqxpLIoD DS2K2Nye7U9Xlvo9+uJfx2unwOKFd7gxQ59fXJKr8yfcv0D9gOF2Yplh0LiWJgti8wJ838 /EERRaxGgny4zkjITDcBA5GfxmrpD8yLvSNNTwJMRcnx/HBlNBVK19pG/pAwT9GoJga5Ql fW/N666rbXT+YT2bBYwm58b5Pt1TfLa5E20CBvyQtZCYB/QS45PhrGo1zArXDg== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1403) id 8A83516E0C; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:17 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:17 +0000 From: "Piotr P. Stefaniak" To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: References: <20210923101302.Horde.kQlN5_c-mrjaAY0QN0wtgns@webmail.in-berlin.de> <202109231640.18NGeow0054727@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202109231640.18NGeow0054727@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632415637; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jR7nywxX7qGFcjMaWH3h8cveRorBKYup1obg+ZC7KI4=; b=yqBsLNSmZ3asgONvUt/ibcNLpLzdY4Zaoi1tX8rMh4fgb/wpWM+/y64YdP2+AH2KyojAYC DYFVxpX9pPnya1MZsBZTOi6D1Pq6uR5Ns3pUXa9K1LyOb/VFf1uyLtvy4GGUDjC9sgvS// FiyW0EGxy18qdA8uILC6YEh4IsfSyVwLMESuftJkUJ1RrxwMW68WhF5A10HMCRbl/n1N21 4NfyZNk3L1QcZytE8O2clXa8r4MI+6ChnDeh026+mBFho9CNhEV1zmhyoJoziBtSdCsLpB br5Hoier5pdXrsiCUIEuyXILttYnLj5+mj0eQ2FYazLRTq+mf7/Gd5MhdisW8w== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1632415637; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kMGZAZYSKK8+8B8NRNTeQaOGwUdrFBU7EXdJWjG4RTDLa/3ELQ/mhjJB8bPUBIUiq4POIk NLF6OtvNMORTSOhaGQrLsrJqu0CchbY2UTFxN2FQfWZ53yw0PpHcV+BamXWg5kbgGhSkWS 6zS7f9xgF3HlWC4voOwFafBH2v0W5p7cSwQhDlNXyNzABejZF4+QD3WMLkTHOvy4OHpgdB ov4n3MHnrZgo4ar3fqlWmPO419/0oAPYI15iWIXxL+QRNrzSeRKPoWp5qOHKN4ihtUI7RJ VIOTn7l6HnaBgKBZ6blBd0hysAT7cakdnfxZ8H26DeN6bJaXXcrPzSH7hjQeOA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2021-09-23 09:40:50, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >Those who DO like it changed, have already made changes to have it >changed, so changing the default only adds to work for both parties, to >me a net loss. Aren't you forgetting about someone? From nobody Thu Sep 23 16:47:51 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C75175940A; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFh193Qq7z3HfK; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 18NGlqBA054761; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:47:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 18NGlpxQ054760; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202109231647.18NGlpxQ054760@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net> To: Hans Ottevanger Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) CC: Baptiste Daroussin , current@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFh193Qq7z3HfK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > Best regards, > > Baptiste > > > > Hello, > > I applaud the proposal to change the default login shell of root to > /bin/sh. As you mention the rest of the Unix(-like) world has used a > Bourne-like root login shell forever. It is one of the first things I > change on a new FreeBSD install anyway. So now you stop changing it, something you have grown use to doing, and all of us who want the old behavior have to add a change item to our list of post install stuff. We BOTH end up with version conditional tweaks to the base system. Is that a good idea? > While there, you could change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to > something more sensible, e.g. just "Superuser". I know Charlie is there > since 4.2BSD, but the reference to a long forgotten baseball player is > probably lost by now. Also, a lot of explanation is often needed when > users receive (automated) emails from Charlie Root. > > Once the login shell of root has changed to /bin/sh, I do not see any > reason to keep toor around. It is there since 4.3BSD, but I don't know > anybody who uses it in the long term. Many will just change the login > shell of root to a Bourne-like shell right away. Your lack of knowing anyone who uses it, does not indicate lack of use. If I want a /bin/sh root user I type: su - toor So now you know someone who uses it! > > I have experimented a bit with the new usability features of sh in 14.0 > and I must say that it was quite a positive experience. I could easily > suppress the urge to install and use bash instead of sh. I wonder if the > changes (but not the ones to /etc/passwd) could be MFC'd in a few > months, once they have matured a bit, so they would land in 13.1. As you > mention elsewhere in this thread, usage in scripts is not affected by > these changes. And for interactive use it could be a POLA violation, but > the astonishment would be a positive one. > > -- > Kind regards, > > Hans Ottevanger > > Eindhoven, Netherlands. > hans@beastielabs.net > www.beastielabs.net > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From nobody Thu Sep 23 17:00:13 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CC6175BAE8 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:00:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@groessler.org) Received: from vigilia.groessler.org (vigilia.groessler.org [79.143.177.135]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512 client-signature RSA-PSS (1024 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "vigilia.groessler.org", Issuer "vigilia.groessler.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFhHV5lqpz3LSq for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:00:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@groessler.org) Received: from [10.23.1.3] (gaga.groessler.org [212.168.189.235]) by vigilia.groessler.org (8.16.0.45/8.14.6) with ESMTPS id 18NH0Dsw059687 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=AEAD-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 19:00:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 19:00:13 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.1.0 Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <2c69aac3-2169-f2ed-ef46-22f40f1d80f6@FreeBSD.org> <0becb052a12bb9ee0f61e258e79d3e65@bsdforge.com> From: Christian Groessler In-Reply-To: <0becb052a12bb9ee0f61e258e79d3e65@bsdforge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFhHV5lqpz3LSq X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@groessler.org has no SPF policy when checking 79.143.177.135) smtp.mailfrom=chris@groessler.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.10 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[chris]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[groessler.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:51167, ipnet:79.143.176.0/23, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N I'd say, leave it as it is. People are used to it since over 30 years. Where does it hurt? regards, chris From nobody Thu Sep 23 17:21:50 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7C4175E3C7 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFhmQ3WBcz3NRW for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 18NHLpZH036346; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:21:50 -0700 From: Chris To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: "Rolf M. Dietze" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <202109231640.18NGeow0054727@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202109231640.18NGeow0054727@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <74693bebbd80eedd82d786dccbbb73fa@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_e822c22c540dc7276bc8095e06a9a5a8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFhmQ3WBcz3NRW X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --=_e822c22c540dc7276bc8095e06a9a5a8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2021-09-23 09:40, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> >> Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>: >> >> > On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote: >> >>> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE ... >> >> Whoever wants is free to add other users with root pemissions is free >> to do so. > > That is a zero sum argument. Ie, same can be said about those who > wish to have the current default changed. Changing that default is > actually going to require NEW special casing of any code that expects > the now 30+ year default. Those who DO like it changed, have already > made changes to have it changed, so changing the default only adds > to work for both parties, to me a net loss. ____________________________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm well inclined to agree here. But my past expressions of such have been largely been ignored. In *this* case; it's not a big affect for me; as I roll out all my updates from build farms. So all my users are already predefined, and their dot files are preserved. But still, more changes == more work. :-( Out of curiosity; has anyone actually done a real assessment to determine the *actual* value of this (proposed) change? I mean in the end, do we really know the cost to loss ratio? --Chris > > Leave the defaults alone, provide tools and such to make it easier > for people to tweak those defaults on install. Stop adding work > to both the people who like how it is now, and people who like > the idea of this change, its not productive for anyone. > > >> Rolf M Dietze --=_e822c22c540dc7276bc8095e06a9a5a8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xBDE49540.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xBDE49540.asc; size=5028 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGDTzGEBCADHlXdS4V57s2soaEK2wi3o9rr9zo7to/giBSxCpFYJxOnPkL5A 2ibbvflrL8sWvAczx47wgDS7iIhzICBBRdnXtcFGnoeeriV27LSn+PcpnIB+DaWZ xe+6TDC0Z0JUJ7qDTjUBFzhnQGYlrVvc4WbnWTjJaB1LEwgIX8JqX5S3SX0/oXgs +OtqDuENZ4/a5te5xPnspTv/5NJHjqYGxjHP0Vw0KjRKS1AoJ1SBPSMQV5373AX9 5NzFS+CjqeQhjfHFPeRajQ8t4T6eqhKA7LtKMO1egeAwNehk9ZoEqEBT2+ojuKUd oSuzqvhhx+eUIYLFqoPSzMKR+YbStzergsbnABEBAAG0KUNocmlzIEh1dGNoaW5z b24gPGNocmlzaEB1bHRpbWF0ZWRucy5uZXQ+iQFrBBABCABVBgsJBwgDAgQVCAoC AxYCAQIZAQIbAwIeARgYaGtwczovL2tleXMub3BlbnBncC5vcmcWIQQGJAsyyBlk cuwsSYsYdR58veSVQAUCYNQl+wUJA8LAmgAKCRAYdR58veSVQN3NB/sFTeXrZeDk 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X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFjSM6PDpz3hQD for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:53:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 18NHqlqL050325 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:52:50 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 18NHqlqL050325 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 18NHqjMQ050323; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:52:45 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:52:45 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-ID: References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFjSM6PDpz3hQD X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:43:01AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:05 +0900 > Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 > > David Wolfskill wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > > > > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > > > > > > > This is a vm running on vmware. > > > > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > > > > > > > uname -a > > > > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > > > > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > > > > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > > > > .... > > > > > > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either > > > from yesterday: > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > or today: > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines > > > in sync rather aggressively.] > > > > > > Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my > > > environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? > > > > > > Peace, > > > david > > > -- > > > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > > > Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. > > > > > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. > > > > For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, > > > > Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce > > Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 > > > > Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. > > > > Failure mode: > > Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. > > Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting > > hostid. > > > > -- > > Tomoaki AOKI > > > > Additional info and correction. > *Hung up before setting hostuuid, not hostid. > > *^T doesn't respond at all, only hard power off worked. > > *`kldload nvidia-modeset.ko` on single user mode sanely work. > > > Why I could know rc.conf is started to be processed: > > I have lines below at the end of /etc/rc.conf and its output is always > the first line related to /etc/rc.conf, at least for non-verbose boot. > The next line is normally "Setting hostuuid: " line, which was not > displayed when boot hung up. > > > kldstat -q -n nvidia.ko > if [ 0 -ne $? ] ; then > echo "Loading nvidia-driver modules via rc.conf." > if [ -e /boot/modules/nvidia-modeset.ko ] ; then > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia-modeset.ko" > else > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia.ko" > fi > fi If you do not load nvidia-modeset.ko at all, does the boot proceed? When the boot hangs, can you enter into ddb? From nobody Thu Sep 23 18:01:25 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730CF17C3B7D; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:01:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFjf03qZpz3k4S; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:01:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id 72so24770936qkk.7; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:01:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:cc :date:message-id:references:to; bh=FFaO0une2l5wlH+K6oia6gaBK27aXSSh2hCgUCY9/jU=; b=B8BvyEMFLB8kvkj6Ft7nXqSr1KRpccZB7z/i81zta6kgAJ2bBueK+9RKQ0yzOKFkDF 6B5SQ8aMcYkIExfeDLmN3aqn/O8ACQ2g9OZkzpM7aImE9zbb+38piwrEBsK4UiL9lzyG FEuMNjq8P16FXjgyOKfrfTgcrIAn+d7rSCTwXL0UgGpRKFsVdZJLB/0CaVCMvDNEfLbm h62qjdC1aZ3uexFSlRlZkI7B9NUkVJzoRb55EEzpeGUNMuuu3CcsTN18H56cIcbbzwmP a1Ql0lVh9yJeptCssO3D237z7igTRf5w3k2Kv4jGxnHghtdpZD7la3xzz/bOHa+s+QDK HsIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :from:in-reply-to:cc:date:message-id:references:to; bh=FFaO0une2l5wlH+K6oia6gaBK27aXSSh2hCgUCY9/jU=; b=XFVd7U8JBZN9HVIWsF2TygDP6Apv/9vzDu3vhGAQXwHU/66aduIqjr1Bx+I1azHnRo UhULynFUWB6CTowXxwZk1GqqmIBstp2sW0vfuvLzsX7TioxgFW2R1OTwoH19n2stbK0v Brkq9kHyZofkWJGXoaxRgJwbp1x0Bc+VCp1bYwZGwZsZiM71JquEuy3S0NZ1qduHjO8U PFV5Hz1Vshi7yO0wbdBTfFK4byYJCv5iUwAblCuJQTSlW5HqOdEZGF5xa0c7geQ5ApuJ aeg93QiNlKB7HNYuNSOCEA5LuY+/5dTok7i7hPTyQKtOLdPcoOql8C/5UFhg+T8K1xBV 690A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533SzbzodaCz/xNSB4kBQs8mXZTZD//RSS1SvZmc/WoUOJK4s2bw WU0jHr3ELbUvcqmllMXx/En97ZGEzcI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzcpEbiKkNkBHfgHpr9ep8C96QFHhUakoSLD9LtytikFCGKnXjNh2fjzFKYsLrQxt1hvhpojg== X-Received: by 2002:a37:a095:: with SMTP id j143mr6165465qke.277.1632420087817; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2804:389:2015:52a1:9d3f:ddf6:615:be9d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f13sm3920212qto.63.2021.09.23.11.01.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-BF42553D-5B8F-4B87-AF9D-75DD8B359C1D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root From: =?utf-8?Q?Lucas_Nali_de_Magalh=C3=A3es?= In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Cc: current@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:01:25 -0300 Message-Id: <577BC6B6-DA44-47FD-A70B-A30404968E4F@gmail.com> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> To: Baptiste Daroussin X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19A346) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFjf03qZpz3k4S X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=B8BvyEMF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rollingbits@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::731 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rollingbits@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::731:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --Apple-Mail-BF42553D-5B8F-4B87-AF9D-75DD8B359C1D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Sep 22, 2021, at 5:38 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! (=E2=80=A6) I'm used to see FreeBSD remembered as a traditional OS full of professionali= sm and open to innovation. The front door for the BSD world and an OS that does= n't copy Linux. But more and more I'm seeing that BSD will need a new front door= soon, that this OS is becoming more and more another Linux, that professiona= lism is being left aside and that innovation is being undone and/or simply erased= . I wish I were about to write that it's the first time in a lot of time that I= see a problem being systematically recreated but this isn't true either. And I feel sad I'= m being getting used to this, too. Mark Millard found that LLVM multi-threaded linker is buggy on Armv7 and rep= orted it in another thread. I commented on it, even. It wasn't mention in that thr= ead that the numbers there shows another problem recreated that must be solved again. The= processes there were killed *before* virtual memory started to being heavily= used. This goes against the intended use of virtual memory. If virtual memory isn't use= d it's lost resource: a thing that must be removed from the system, optimized away. In t= hat specific case, virtual memory should have entered into place, being fully fi= lled and then the process will be killed. And just to be complete, the non-debuggability o= f LLVM were a known problem of LLVM by the time of the discussions that lead to it's imp= ort in the tree. --=20 rollingbits =E2=80=94 =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@icloud.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rolli= ngbits@gmail.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@yahoo.com From nobody Thu Sep 23 18:10:17 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2A0E17C53CB for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:10:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFjrC5qQ5z3lth; 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dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Un2Dx7bp; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rollingbits@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::729 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rollingbits@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::729:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --Apple-Mail-21B2EC8B-C2DD-4250-80DC-A72AB9444BED Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sep 23, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Lucas Nali de Magalh=C3=A3es wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>> On Sep 22, 2021, at 5:38 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote= : >>>=20 >> TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! (=E2=80=A6) >=20 > I'm used to see FreeBSD remembered as a traditional OS full of professiona= lism > and open to innovation. The front door for the BSD world and an OS that do= esn't > copy Linux. But more and more I'm seeing that BSD will need a new front do= or > soon, that this OS is becoming more and more another Linux, that professio= nalism > is being left aside and that innovation is being undone and/or simply eras= ed. > I wish I were about to write that it's the first time in a lot of time tha= t I see a problem > being systematically recreated but this isn't true either. And I feel sad I= 'm being > getting used to this, too. >=20 > Mark Millard found that LLVM multi-threaded linker is buggy on Armv7 and r= eported > it in another thread. I commented on it, even. It wasn't mention in that t= hread that the > numbers there shows another problem recreated that must be solved again. T= he > processes there were killed *before* virtual memory started to being heavi= ly used. This > goes against the intended use of virtual memory. If virtual memory isn't u= sed it's lost > resource: a thing that must be removed from the system, optimized away. In= that > specific case, virtual memory should have entered into place, being fully f= illed and then > the process will be killed. And just to be complete, the non-debuggability= of LLVM were > a known problem of LLVM by the time of the discussions that lead to it's i= mport in the > tree. And, by mentioning problems needing solution, I received: Post to freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org denied: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the de= fault shell for root This used to not be a problem. I know of what followed were the truth and I'= ve no intention in changing my status about this. And this huge thread is about a cosmetic change. Fanta= stic! --=20 rollingbits =E2=80=94 =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@icloud.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rolli= ngbits@gmail.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@yahoo.com From nobody Thu Sep 23 18:45:41 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE28217C92C5 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=krA0=ON=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net) Received: from ns2.wilbury.net (ns2.wilbury.net [92.60.51.55]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "svc.wilbury.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFkd53s2Bz3q44 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=krA0=ON=FreeBSD.org=otis@ns2.wilbury.net) Received: from smtpclient.apple (gw-upc.owhome.net [188.167.168.254]) (Authenticated sender: juraj@lutter.sk) by svc.wilbury.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A9FA45CF95; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:45:42 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. From: Juraj Lutter In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:45:41 +0200 Cc: Tomoaki AOKI , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> To: Konstantin Belousov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_SOFTFAIL autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on ns2.wilbury.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFkd53s2Bz3q44 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > On 23 Sep 2021, at 19:52, Konstantin Belousov = wrote: >=20 > If you do not load nvidia-modeset.ko at all, does the boot proceed? >=20 > When the boot hangs, can you enter into ddb? That also brings up a question: Does nvidia kmods (and probably also drm = kmod) match the kernel? =E2=80=94 Juraj Lutter otis@FreeBSD.org From nobody Thu Sep 23 19:20:51 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7D617CC849 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 19:20:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFlPd40hjz3svT for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 19:20:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id c22so26459697edn.12 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 12:20:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=MM3D6aDoQ2ggLi1CU0lkfZn4w794Ala/A+oEz79qlwc=; b=jEUeSUvBYj3g5k0xSwZ97w2HEcyJSDFKd6upGiwTvFyPvWB/OCI3ApEiacSPESGLnI aQ86Pa/8l7ean6RDo3h7zT4OEiHn+Ar+w0B4TzXY1hd1A8PPQROtMvggI6tE7w74u/FY iXAzns/ZVdLH2r+0XvhV4BHdDzEblzr4b68EPxzcv4f/ypxn1/ib9cEvOMoSwELG4GIp aeYpaeCBnzssYh+2fm4pt2v2ybViWRHmdJSHoANtBX00YlAHeETxbQRBXcpBjvT6Jwmm 1EjT8w30OOyjhZJmux8Zewi/DvEkb334Smr1hAk9BrUSs/eE7Lj3Ops7rP16LUetLna7 l9Wg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=MM3D6aDoQ2ggLi1CU0lkfZn4w794Ala/A+oEz79qlwc=; b=zi3aX6gbKuPYmcTGpTCKv4ctQ3ZJMIiAz7eyBrjCb+VYAHF0tODoEG975tjrQoFWAL hQUMPqnIA180/4/PagFHo1MOEBJTUr58mXzE086Vv1QeQc+62+oIh/jtdD7zFsI7N0a9 idDNcooaYahv00jbDshuLnkzSbyu8in5nFPDpSsGMM3HeFyEOEN1QzTEIRzdbsi40t+N TbRrUzQqT2GEFavqm+7gKygf5j+UKYWjY69p1DwQsX6ProXIYS5bAwWHnUrWBYOySj5x ynhRUw17gX/vrhV6YMRZ8fwsmmfWhosDcfjI6FESgss60ijNttvRFrqVlIwvftMclUob gVBw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Nk2fHz4m5ivBrgpBKnFBub5DQUJBsiQLOsxbd/X2KvRR/uTIN fbhdIyjXubb0MtBXYevehzuE0u+cIe8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwUa18ilJ/91rlPwqvYnqwws9vPJYxwv9MxLwsouiXHr2/er+E1qCq4RRuqXbGdK5LGPl3beQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:1c89:: with SMTP id g9mr6989958ejh.565.1632424852234; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 12:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MacBook-Pro-van-Johan.local (85-147-130-226.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl. [85.147.130.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p5sm3516790eju.30.2021.09.23.12.20.51 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 23 Sep 2021 12:20:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. To: FreeBSD Current References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Johan Hendriks Message-ID: <3157fd7d-5e7b-2e27-6ebe-84f4b6cbbc63@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 21:20:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFlPd40hjz3svT X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=jEUeSUvB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johhendriks@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johhendriks@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.72 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.28)[0.278]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52e:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 23/09/2021 19:52, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:43:01AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: >> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:05 +0900 >> Tomoaki AOKI wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 >>> David Wolfskill wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: >>>>> I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. >>>>> I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 >>>>> >>>>> This is a vm running on vmware. >>>>> If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. >>>>> >>>>> uname -a >>>>> FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 >>>>> main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 >>>>> root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 >>>>> .... >>>> I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either >>>> from yesterday: >>>> >>>> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 >>>> >>>> or today: >>>> >>>> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 >>>> >>>> [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines >>>> in sync rather aggressively.] >>>> >>>> Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my >>>> environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? >>>> >>>> Peace, >>>> david >>>> -- >>>> David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org >>>> Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. >>>> >>>> See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. >>> For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, >>> >>> Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce >>> Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 >>> >>> Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. >>> >>> Failure mode: >>> Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. >>> Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting >>> hostid. >>> >>> -- >>> Tomoaki AOKI >>> >> Additional info and correction. >> *Hung up before setting hostuuid, not hostid. >> >> *^T doesn't respond at all, only hard power off worked. >> >> *`kldload nvidia-modeset.ko` on single user mode sanely work. >> >> >> Why I could know rc.conf is started to be processed: >> >> I have lines below at the end of /etc/rc.conf and its output is always >> the first line related to /etc/rc.conf, at least for non-verbose boot. >> The next line is normally "Setting hostuuid: " line, which was not >> displayed when boot hung up. >> >> >> kldstat -q -n nvidia.ko >> if [ 0 -ne $? ] ; then >> echo "Loading nvidia-driver modules via rc.conf." >> if [ -e /boot/modules/nvidia-modeset.ko ] ; then >> kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia-modeset.ko" >> else >> kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia.ko" >> fi >> fi > If you do not load nvidia-modeset.ko at all, does the boot proceed? > > When the boot hangs, can you enter into ddb? > > I do not load a nvidia-modeset.ko kernel module and it will not boot. It hangs with Setting hostid : as the last message. Then only a powercycle gets me back. If i boot in single user mode all is fine, but as soon as i exit single user mode it hangs at the same spot. From nobody Thu Sep 23 19:30:40 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DED17CE1E0 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 19:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@xinuos.com) Received: from zhost.uxsglobal.com (zhost.xinuos.com [132.147.224.105]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4HFldB6qv1z3vFY for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 19:30:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tim@xinuos.com) Received: from zhost.uxsglobal.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zhost.uxsglobal.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CECB018D3689 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:30:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zhost.uxsglobal.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6CED18D36BC for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:30:46 -0500 (CDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 zhost.uxsglobal.com B6CED18D36BC DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xinuos.com; s=710E410E-A6C0-11E6-9C55-A8275FB0EC07; t=1632425446; bh=t+2TnIcC12ID/9Nowl0l2njPk4sk8mp3sdKcXkxvPD0=; h=Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=oa7lcDQt3xwLjJad0oRZXreTGOUa7ILUZ1PPVzC1bxDwCiYusLKMB/S5jETrWSdoM K7xkCW8ncS+rLS0rMvr6oj1y+/swU0gCDIISPHmnBd538lxwMUWnWP31Ol7mIyLLN/ ZHLwok2CCBfHc0ukjzHep4KB7AoZ5J+024x4PgbY= Received: from zhost.uxsglobal.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zhost.uxsglobalhost.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id luCMwlc8X8Co for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:30:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mac-mini02.willits.xinuos.com (ext139.multitalents.net [173.164.249.139]) by zhost.uxsglobal.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 74C7A18D3689 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 14:30:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <202109221552.18MFqsTS050409@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> From: Tim Rice Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 12:30:40 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202109221552.18MFqsTS050409@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-WatchGuard-AntiVirus: part scanned. clean action=allow X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFldB6qv1z3vFY X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=xinuos.com header.s=710E410E-A6C0-11E6-9C55-A8275FB0EC07 header.b=oa7lcDQt; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tim@xinuos.com designates 132.147.224.105 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tim@xinuos.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.75 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[xinuos.com:s=710E410E-A6C0-11E6-9C55-A8275FB0EC07]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:132.147.224.105]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[xinuos.com: no valid DMARC record]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.65)[0.647]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[xinuos.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36489, ipnet:132.147.224.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 9/22/21 8:52 AM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 08:34:58AM -0700, John Baldwin wrote: >>> I think this is fine. I would also be fine with either removing 'toor' from the >>> default password file or just leaving it as-is for POLA. (I would probably >>> prefer removing it outright.) >> HardenedBSD recently removed toor. No one has complained (yet?). A >> small Twitter poll[0] showed that 85% of people who responded do not >> use toor. > A truely disastisified customer does not complain, they simply > go some place else for there products. Be carefull in what you > believe silence to be saying. I do not see csh as root's shell as a pain point. The #1 pain point on FreeBSD if you are used to various flavors of linux, Solaris, UnixWare, etc. is ps(1) not having POSIX style arguments. -- Tim Rice tim.rice@xinuos.com From nobody Thu Sep 23 20:20:27 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64D117D4211; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:25:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org) Received: from uucp.dinoex.org (uucp.dinoex.org [IPv6:2a0b:f840::12]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "uucp.dinoex.sub.de", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFmrG5Z9Lz4WSn; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:25:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org) Received: from uucp.dinoex.sub.de (uucp.dinoex.org [185.220.148.12]) by uucp.dinoex.org (8.17.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPS id 18NKP0Kx017067 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:25:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: uucp.dinoex.sub.de: Host uucp.dinoex.org [185.220.148.12] claimed to be uucp.dinoex.sub.de Received: from bamd12.dinoex.sub.de (dinoex@localhost) by uucp.dinoex.sub.de (8.17.1/8.17.1/Submit) with BSMTP id 18NKP0G0017059; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:25:00 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org) To: current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: From: dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org (Dirk Meyer) Organization: privat Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:20:27 +0200 X-Mailer: Dinoex 1.79 References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> X-Gateway: ZCONNECT bamd12.dinoex.sub.de [UNIX/Connect 0.94] X-Accept-Language: de,en X-No-Archive: yes X-ZC-VIA: 20210923000000S+2@dinoex.sub.org X-Milter: Spamilter (Reciever: uucp.dinoex.sub.de; Sender-ip: 185.220.148.12; Sender-helo: uucp.dinoex.sub.de;) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (uucp.dinoex.org [185.220.148.12]); Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:25:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFmrG5Z9Lz4WSn X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=dinoex.sub.org; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org designates 2a0b:f840::12 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.80 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[dinoex.sub.org,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:205376, ipnet:2a0b:f840::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Baptiste Daroussin schrieb:, > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD > [...] > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > proposal happen. We have already "toor" for sh. I disgree on the "user friendly" part of sh. History search in sh and bash can't hold a candle angainst csh. Migration of aliase will be painful as ">&" and "|&" is not supoported. I vote strongly against it. kind regards Dirk - Dirk Meyer, Im Grund 4, 34317 Habichtswald, Germany - [dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org],[dirk.meyer@guug.de],[dinoex@FreeBSD.org] From nobody Thu Sep 23 20:28:37 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E1A017D50C4; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:28:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: from spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (spindle.one-eyed-alien.net [199.48.129.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFmvv5ltWz4YYy; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:28:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net) Received: by spindle.one-eyed-alien.net (Postfix, from userid 3001) id B0E053C0199; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:28:37 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:28:37 +0000 From: Brooks Davis To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: current@freebsd.org, arch@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Message-ID: <20210923202837.GC63086@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFmvv5ltWz4YYy X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net has no SPF policy when checking 199.48.129.229) smtp.mailfrom=brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.86 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[brooks]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.958]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[brooks@freebsd.org,brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36236, ipnet:199.48.128.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[brooks@freebsd.org,brooks@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:36:45AM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > Hello, >=20 > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! >=20 > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be conf= using > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne sh= ell > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. Think we should switch in 14+. My main argument is that shell one-liners in documentation are almost always written in Bourne syntax. I believe the fact that we're an outlier is confusing the sort of new users we hope to attract with thinks like Raspberry-pi and cloud images. As a long-time user, it even trips me up when I do some work on a FreeBSD box after spending most of my time on other systems. -- Brooks --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJhTON1AAoJEKzQXbSebgfAt+cH/A/z3/FT7hMIMFbumlo8sbML 9xqGsGC3nsh7oUbtqUn9tRlD1zfh5NnSZ1WyNF6f+L8s01gDBRAm1kndwAajB3Kb K2Zga+B0kVHNACDUAKcZsMJgoQY6TRF4JlhX77dAp9NPb7HWQAQ4c0IKwgVLyy7O 77vPXQXhQeJE4HasF6EY8QrUZJhKePh6SZ1d67dBQpkyfOta2R4oKM7ez8rMZ3OE aUJ/1KhxYzeELJsepP6st60jxzE5hZ6MX/vOIQ2JftF5paTCqPKkP0xi8nGOrHBF MF8iblgMiGLHCtS9CofFQknIwp1uNz7y7YWPy6NjcfNgySwl8+F4nBNnJ7zRBks= =0fIT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/NkBOFFp2J2Af1nK-- From nobody Thu Sep 23 22:33:33 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285D417585E6 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:33:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFqh46CvRz4kmM for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 22:33:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 18NMXXjH020538 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 24 Sep 2021 01:33:36 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 18NMXXjH020538 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 18NMXXNl020537; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 01:33:33 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 01:33:33 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Johan Hendriks Cc: FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-ID: References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <3157fd7d-5e7b-2e27-6ebe-84f4b6cbbc63@gmail.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3157fd7d-5e7b-2e27-6ebe-84f4b6cbbc63@gmail.com> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFqh46CvRz4kmM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 09:20:51PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > On 23/09/2021 19:52, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:43:01AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:05 +0900 > > > Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 > > > > David Wolfskill wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > > > > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > > > > > > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a vm running on vmware. > > > > > > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > > > > > > > > > > > uname -a > > > > > > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > > > > > > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > > > > > > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > > > > > > .... > > > > > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either > > > > > from yesterday: > > > > > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > > > > > or today: > > > > > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > > > > > [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines > > > > > in sync rather aggressively.] > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my > > > > > environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? > > > > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > david > > > > > -- > > > > > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > > > > > Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. > > > > > > > > > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. > > > > For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, > > > > > > > > Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce > > > > Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 > > > > > > > > Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. > > > > > > > > Failure mode: > > > > Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. > > > > Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting > > > > hostid. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Tomoaki AOKI > > > > > > > Additional info and correction. > > > *Hung up before setting hostuuid, not hostid. > > > > > > *^T doesn't respond at all, only hard power off worked. > > > > > > *`kldload nvidia-modeset.ko` on single user mode sanely work. > > > > > > > > > Why I could know rc.conf is started to be processed: > > > > > > I have lines below at the end of /etc/rc.conf and its output is always > > > the first line related to /etc/rc.conf, at least for non-verbose boot. > > > The next line is normally "Setting hostuuid: " line, which was not > > > displayed when boot hung up. > > > > > > > > > kldstat -q -n nvidia.ko > > > if [ 0 -ne $? ] ; then > > > echo "Loading nvidia-driver modules via rc.conf." > > > if [ -e /boot/modules/nvidia-modeset.ko ] ; then > > > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia-modeset.ko" > > > else > > > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia.ko" > > > fi > > > fi > > If you do not load nvidia-modeset.ko at all, does the boot proceed? > > > > When the boot hangs, can you enter into ddb? > > > > > I do not load a nvidia-modeset.ko kernel module and it will not boot. It > hangs with Setting hostid : as the last message. Then only a powercycle gets > me back. If i boot in single user mode all is fine, but as soon as i exit > single user mode it hangs at the same spot. Can you enter ddb at the hang point? Do you load any other modules besides nvidia, from rc.conf? From nobody Thu Sep 23 23:51:30 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46595175FC24; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:51:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-QB1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr660060.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.66.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert Cloud Services CA-1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFsQ90NQKz4r6k; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:51:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=UbgjTVReVYaEoi81Lu6pGhntERQdl9K8HOUujBXu0fMBqxMZ30kjVVBPJoZn3W/kNcdRYDZuVt945KyoXHxx3FyOX+ZOuGz6zPViNW4lUjXdVNYqUCwfep6gamJc21+4Wx9AZLFvV9J0k1MS8pZBFYRpQjnYqicVWirIh/tX8p3PNWqPOLxDesguP8BXSGI6+i48lzhSGqOsCvIRwZFTt4okfqLDL5sWhPj660pTwXYf2JAF7OVxmkcgIRS7mXrT308FLl40sXniDH2IULSpokOn6FB+68YTDjLL6y/Bo9PJ/c1vdVzOvurBbC1oe4GklYca+CjuQl3502umeymF/g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:51:36 +0000 Received: from YQXPR0101MB0968.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::55aa:8e71:343f:dc14]) by YQXPR0101MB0968.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::55aa:8e71:343f:dc14%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4544.015; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:51:31 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Dirk Meyer , "current@freebsd.org" , "arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Thread-Topic: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root Thread-Index: AQHXsLhyrrac4yk4rUGNQqSt2zTCpquySUkV Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:51:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: suggested_attachment_session_id: 49a3c575-c12b-cfae-c33f-f8372e68b6b7 x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a7ed4a7f-aed4-45b1-d39c-08d97eed1132 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: YQBPR0101MB2274: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: uoguelph.ca X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: YQXPR0101MB0968.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a7ed4a7f-aed4-45b1-d39c-08d97eed1132 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Sep 2021 23:51:30.9159 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: be62a12b-2cad-49a1-a5fa-85f4f3156a7d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: v9qdxyD+5oBVs3TcdfUxl0cPTFSfHYh8kzNG1W+655+OVzZJIXO7lUvdY4Xed42KQuOAtzI7fppNmfzOtUwqzQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: YQBPR0101MB2274 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFsQ90NQKz4r6k X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Dirk Meyer wrote:=0A= >Baptiste Daroussin schrieb:,=0A= [stuff snipped]=0A= >=0A= >We have already "toor" for sh.=0A= As an aside, I will note that having multiple passwd entries for the same u= id somewhat=0A= breaks the mapping done by nfsuserd(8), since it will map the uid to one of= the names.=0A= =0A= It is not a big issue, but in my perfect world, there would not be "toor".= =0A= =0A= I don't have an opinion on what shell root should use.=0A= =0A= rick=0A= =0A= I disgree on the "user friendly" part of sh.=0A= History search in sh and bash can't hold a candle angainst csh.=0A= =0A= Migration of aliase will be painful as ">&" and "|&" is not supoported.=0A= =0A= I vote strongly against it.=0A= =0A= kind regards Dirk=0A= =0A= - Dirk Meyer, Im Grund 4, 34317 Habichtswald, Germany=0A= - [dirk.meyer@dinoex.sub.org],[dirk.meyer@guug.de],[dinoex@FreeBSD.org]=0A= =0A= =0A= From nobody Fri Sep 24 00:05:02 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E1017C1E0E; 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FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.53.9 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3bde04d9-4479-c89e-7005-775832bd2334@selasky.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Message whitelisted by Sendmail access database, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (shadow.sentry.org [0.0.0.0]); Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:05:02 +1000 (AEST) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFsjj2dCgz4spM X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-current@sentry.org designates 210.8.237.106 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-current@sentry.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2764, ipnet:210.8.0.0/15, country:AU]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sentry.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Spam: Yes X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Hans Petter Selasky wrote on 23/9/21 5:55 pm: > I've always used "tcsh" for root. The little help you get on the command > line to search and repeat commands is very useful compared to plain "sh". +1 From nobody Fri Sep 24 05:48:13 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F27A17DC91F for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 05:48:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from administrator@freebsd.org) Received: from hp0.n.tvcmia.buzz (hp0.n.tvcmia.buzz [159.65.43.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HG1KV1qRsz3q9l for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 05:48:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from administrator@freebsd.org) From: freebsd.org To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Verify Your Account freebsd-current@freebsd.org Date: 23 Sep 2021 22:48:13 -0700 Message-ID: <20210923224813.567108F945188DCD@freebsd.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HG1KV1qRsz3q9l X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:159.65.32.0/20, country:US]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y New Page 3


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From nobody Sat Sep 25 00:14:59 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF3717C54F5 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 00:15:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HGTtk2MJyz4c9Q for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 00:15:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-48-130-181.area1b.commufa.jp [123.48.130.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.16.1/8.16.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 18P0Exsw067900 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 09:15:00 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 09:14:59 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-Id: <20210925091459.6e26ce4cf5b41aa1d64bff48@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Reply-To: junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HGTtk2MJyz4c9Q X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp has no SPF policy when checking 153.125.133.21) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.59 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[123.48.130.181:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.995]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.995]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sakura.ne.jp]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:45:41 +0200 Juraj Lutter wrote: > > > > On 23 Sep 2021, at 19:52, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > > > If you do not load nvidia-modeset.ko at all, does the boot proceed? > > > > When the boot hangs, can you enter into ddb? > > That also brings up a question: Does nvidia kmods (and probably also drm kmod) match the kernel? > > > $B".(B > Juraj Lutter > otis@FreeBSD.org Of course. I habitally rebuild all ports having *.ko after installworld and etcupdate. (I don't use drm-*-kmod, as nvidia-driver doesn't need it.) -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Sat Sep 25 02:00:50 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F5917D032D for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:00:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HGXDm1nm4z4mxr for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:00:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-48-130-181.area1b.commufa.jp [123.48.130.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.16.1/8.16.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 18P20ppc081522 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:00:51 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:00:50 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-Id: <20210925110050.110bdfd6bea8f27f11221eb5@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <3157fd7d-5e7b-2e27-6ebe-84f4b6cbbc63@gmail.com> Reply-To: junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HGXDm1nm4z4mxr X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp has no SPF policy when checking 153.125.133.21) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.60 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[123.48.130.181:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sakura.ne.jp]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 01:33:33 +0300 Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 09:20:51PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > > On 23/09/2021 19:52, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > > On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:43:01AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:05 +0900 > > > > Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 > > > > > David Wolfskill wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > > > > > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > > > > > > > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a vm running on vmware. > > > > > > > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uname -a > > > > > > > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > > > > > > > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > > > > > > > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either > > > > > > from yesterday: > > > > > > > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > > > > > > > or today: > > > > > > > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > > > > > > > [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines > > > > > > in sync rather aggressively.] > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my > > > > > > environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > david > > > > > > -- > > > > > > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > > > > > > Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. > > > > > > > > > > > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. > > > > > For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, > > > > > > > > > > Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce > > > > > Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 > > > > > > > > > > Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. > > > > > > > > > > Failure mode: > > > > > Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. > > > > > Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting > > > > > hostid. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Tomoaki AOKI > > > > > > > > > Additional info and correction. > > > > *Hung up before setting hostuuid, not hostid. > > > > > > > > *^T doesn't respond at all, only hard power off worked. > > > > > > > > *`kldload nvidia-modeset.ko` on single user mode sanely work. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why I could know rc.conf is started to be processed: > > > > > > > > I have lines below at the end of /etc/rc.conf and its output is always > > > > the first line related to /etc/rc.conf, at least for non-verbose boot. > > > > The next line is normally "Setting hostuuid: " line, which was not > > > > displayed when boot hung up. > > > > > > > > > > > > kldstat -q -n nvidia.ko > > > > if [ 0 -ne $? ] ; then > > > > echo "Loading nvidia-driver modules via rc.conf." > > > > if [ -e /boot/modules/nvidia-modeset.ko ] ; then > > > > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia-modeset.ko" > > > > else > > > > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia.ko" > > > > fi > > > > fi > > > If you do not load nvidia-modeset.ko at all, does the boot proceed? > > > > > > When the boot hangs, can you enter into ddb? > > > > > > > > I do not load a nvidia-modeset.ko kernel module and it will not boot. It > > hangs with Setting hostid : as the last message. Then only a powercycle gets > > me back. If i boot in single user mode all is fine, but as soon as i exit > > single user mode it hangs at the same spot. > > Can you enter ddb at the hang point? It depends. In most cases, nothing other than power cycle works, but I could get into ddb by ctrl-alt-esc only once. `bt` was like below. Converted from photo using Google Lens, and hand-fixed mis-conversion as much as possible, but there can be remaining mis-conversion. ===== `bt` output ===== KDB: enter: manual escape to debugger [ thread pid 12 tid 100041 ] Stopped at kdb_enter+0x37: movq $0,0x103aale (Xrip) db> bt Tracing pid 12 tid 100041 td 0xfffffe00e32c0000 kdb_enter() at kdb_enter+0x37/frame 0xfffffe00e2e80d40 vt kbdevent() at vt_kbdevent+0x22f/frame 0xfffffe00e2e80da0 kbdmux_intr() at kbdmux_intr+0x45/frame Oxfffffe00e2e80dc0 taskqueue_run_locked() at taskqueue_run_locked+0x197/frame Oxfffffe00e2e80e40 taskqueue_run() at taskqueue_run+0x68/frame 0xfffffe00e2e80e60 ithread_loop() at ithread_loop+0x25f/frame Oxfffffe00e2e80ef0 fork_exit() at fork_exit+0x8e/frame Oxfffffe00e2e80f30 fork_trampoline() at fork_trampoline+0xe/frame Oxfffffe00e2e80f30 --- trap 0, rip = 0x301700000000000, rsp = 0, rbp= 0xffffffff81d047d0--- ??() at 0x301700000000000/frame Oxffffffff81d047d0 ??() at Oxfffff80001a59b80/frame Oxfffff80001a59c00 taskqueue_swi_run() at taskqueue_swi_run ===== End `bt` output ===== > Do you load any other modules besides nvidia, from rc.conf? Yes, but doesn't seem to be loaded when hung up. ddb says... ===== `kldstat` output by ddb ===== db> kidstat Id Refs Address Size Name 1 56 0xffffffff80200000 1f31a70 kernel 2 1 0xffffffff82132000 2b88 acpi_call.ko 3 1 0xffffffff82135000 290940 iwm9000fw.ko 4 1 0xffffffff823c6000 8248 acpi_ibm.ko 5 1 0xffffffff823cf000 6260 filemon.ko 6 1 0xffffffff823d7000 2cf8 udf_iconv.ko 7 4 0xffffffff823da000 9388 libiconv.ko 8 2 0xffffffff823e4000 9f48 udf.ko 9 1 0xffffffff823ee000 26228 if_iwm.ko 10 1 0xffffffff82415000 2d58 msdosfs_iconv.ko 11 1 0xffffffff82418000 2d40 cd9660_iconv.ko 12 1 0xffffffff828c7000 63e0 usbhid.ko 13 2 0xffffffff828ce000 6db0 hidbus.ko 14 1 0xffffffff828d5000 5b4ec8 zfs.ko 15 1 0xffffffff82e8a000 2e48 nvram.ko 16 1 0xffffffff82e8d000 3ca0 smb.ko 17 2 0xffffffff82e91000 3d50 smbus.ko 18 1 0xffffffff82e95000 4358 cpuct1.ko db> ===== End `kldstat` output by ddb ===== All are loaded by /boot.loader.conf. fdescfs.ko seems to missing compared to k`kldstat` from single user shell, but it could be loaded on remounting (for rw access) fs. Modules loaded via rc.conf on sane boot is as follows. It should include modules automatically loaded by defd. Address should be different, as revision is different. Manually kldload'ing No.20 though 28 (including auto-loaded as dependency: 21,25 and 27) did't cause hang up on single user sh of affected revision. ===== Additional modules ===== 20 1 0xffffffff83614000 174c8 smbfs.ko 21 2 0xffffffff8362c000 3090 libmchain.ko 22 1 0xffffffff83630000 5658 tpm.ko 23 1 0xffffffff83636000 11ea0 fusefs.ko 24 1 0xffffffff83648000 106310 nvidia-modeset.ko 25 1 0xffffffff83800000 1fa1a48 nvidia.ko 26 2 0xffffffff8374f000 2cce0 linux.ko 27 6 0xffffffff8377c000 9ea8 linux_common.ko 28 1 0xffffffff83786000 4350 acpi_video.ko 29 1 0xffffffff8378b000 3378 acpi_wmi.ko 30 2 0xffffffff8378f000 21d8 hconf.ko 31 1 0xffffffff83792000 21e8 hcons.ko 32 3 0xffffffff83795000 30a8 hidmap.ko 33 1 0xffffffff83799000 21e8 hms.ko 34 1 0xffffffff8379c000 32c0 hmt.ko 35 1 0xffffffff837a0000 21e8 hpen.ko 36 1 0xffffffff837a3000 3250 ichsmb.ko 37 1 0xffffffff837a7000 6c9c ig4.ko 38 1 0xffffffff837ae000 433c iicbus.ko 39 1 0xffffffff837b3000 2110 pchtherm.ko 40 1 0xffffffff837b6000 28f40 linux64.ko 41 1 0xffffffff837df000 2260 pty.ko 42 1 0xffffffff837e2000 639c linprocfs.ko 43 1 0xffffffff837e9000 3284 linsysfs.ko 44 1 0xffffffff837ed000 4c20 ng_ubt.ko 45 6 0xffffffff837f2000 aac8 netgraph.ko 46 2 0xffffffff857a2000 9238 ng_hci.ko 47 3 0xffffffff837fd000 25a8 ng_bluetooth.ko 48 1 0xffffffff857ac000 d250 ng_l2cap.ko 49 1 0xffffffff857ba000 1bef8 ng_btsocket.ko 50 1 0xffffffff857d6000 39d0 ng_socket.ko 51 1 0xffffffff857da000 27040 ipfw.ko ===== End additional modules ===== -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Sat Sep 25 02:20:14 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C38117D2685 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:20:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HGXgK2qgzz4phj for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 02:20:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 18P2KEnE035845 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 25 Sep 2021 05:20:17 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 18P2KEnE035845 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 18P2KEpd035842; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 05:20:14 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 05:20:14 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-ID: References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20210924004301.4b16fa28619ed5191b331be9@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <3157fd7d-5e7b-2e27-6ebe-84f4b6cbbc63@gmail.com> <20210925110050.110bdfd6bea8f27f11221eb5@dec.sakura.ne.jp> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210925110050.110bdfd6bea8f27f11221eb5@dec.sakura.ne.jp> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HGXgK2qgzz4phj X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 11:00:50AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 01:33:33 +0300 > Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 09:20:51PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > > > > On 23/09/2021 19:52, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > > > > On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:43:01AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 23:09:05 +0900 > > > > > Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 > > > > > > David Wolfskill wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > > > > > > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. > > > > > > > > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a vm running on vmware. > > > > > > > > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uname -a > > > > > > > > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 > > > > > > > > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 > > > > > > > > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 > > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > > I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either > > > > > > > from yesterday: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or today: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY amd64 1400033 1400033 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines > > > > > > > in sync rather aggressively.] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my > > > > > > > environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peace, > > > > > > > david > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org > > > > > > > Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. > > > > > > For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, > > > > > > > > > > > > Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce > > > > > > Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 > > > > > > > > > > > > Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. > > > > > > > > > > > > Failure mode: > > > > > > Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. > > > > > > Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting > > > > > > hostid. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Tomoaki AOKI > > > > > > > > > > > Additional info and correction. > > > > > *Hung up before setting hostuuid, not hostid. > > > > > > > > > > *^T doesn't respond at all, only hard power off worked. > > > > > > > > > > *`kldload nvidia-modeset.ko` on single user mode sanely work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why I could know rc.conf is started to be processed: > > > > > > > > > > I have lines below at the end of /etc/rc.conf and its output is always > > > > > the first line related to /etc/rc.conf, at least for non-verbose boot. > > > > > The next line is normally "Setting hostuuid: " line, which was not > > > > > displayed when boot hung up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kldstat -q -n nvidia.ko > > > > > if [ 0 -ne $? ] ; then > > > > > echo "Loading nvidia-driver modules via rc.conf." > > > > > if [ -e /boot/modules/nvidia-modeset.ko ] ; then > > > > > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia-modeset.ko" > > > > > else > > > > > kld_list="${kld_list} nvidia.ko" > > > > > fi > > > > > fi > > > > If you do not load nvidia-modeset.ko at all, does the boot proceed? > > > > > > > > When the boot hangs, can you enter into ddb? > > > > > > > > > > > I do not load a nvidia-modeset.ko kernel module and it will not boot. It > > > hangs with Setting hostid : as the last message. Then only a powercycle gets > > > me back. If i boot in single user mode all is fine, but as soon as i exit > > > single user mode it hangs at the same spot. > > > > Can you enter ddb at the hang point? > > It depends. In most cases, nothing other than power cycle works, but I > could get into ddb by ctrl-alt-esc only once. `bt` was like below. > Converted from photo using Google Lens, and hand-fixed mis-conversion > as much as possible, but there can be remaining mis-conversion. > > > ===== `bt` output ===== > > KDB: enter: manual escape to debugger > [ thread pid 12 tid 100041 ] > Stopped at kdb_enter+0x37: movq $0,0x103aale (Xrip) > db> bt > Tracing pid 12 tid 100041 td 0xfffffe00e32c0000 > kdb_enter() at kdb_enter+0x37/frame 0xfffffe00e2e80d40 > vt kbdevent() at vt_kbdevent+0x22f/frame 0xfffffe00e2e80da0 > kbdmux_intr() at kbdmux_intr+0x45/frame Oxfffffe00e2e80dc0 > taskqueue_run_locked() at taskqueue_run_locked+0x197/frame > Oxfffffe00e2e80e40 taskqueue_run() at taskqueue_run+0x68/frame > 0xfffffe00e2e80e60 ithread_loop() at ithread_loop+0x25f/frame > Oxfffffe00e2e80ef0 fork_exit() at fork_exit+0x8e/frame > Oxfffffe00e2e80f30 fork_trampoline() at fork_trampoline+0xe/frame > Oxfffffe00e2e80f30 > --- trap 0, rip = 0x301700000000000, rsp = 0, rbp= 0xffffffff81d047d0--- > ??() at 0x301700000000000/frame Oxffffffff81d047d0 > ??() at Oxfffff80001a59b80/frame Oxfffff80001a59c00 > taskqueue_swi_run() at taskqueue_swi_run > > ===== End `bt` output ===== This is software interrupt thread processing task for keyboard, nothing unexpected or unusual. Next time please do 'ps' at least. You might note some 'interesting' processes in the ps output right away, in which case please do bt for them as well. I think it would be fine to post images somewhere. > > > > Do you load any other modules besides nvidia, from rc.conf? > > Yes, but doesn't seem to be loaded when hung up. > > ddb says... > > > ===== `kldstat` output by ddb ===== > > db> kidstat > Id Refs Address Size Name > 1 56 0xffffffff80200000 1f31a70 kernel > 2 1 0xffffffff82132000 2b88 acpi_call.ko > 3 1 0xffffffff82135000 290940 iwm9000fw.ko > 4 1 0xffffffff823c6000 8248 acpi_ibm.ko > 5 1 0xffffffff823cf000 6260 filemon.ko > 6 1 0xffffffff823d7000 2cf8 udf_iconv.ko > 7 4 0xffffffff823da000 9388 libiconv.ko > 8 2 0xffffffff823e4000 9f48 udf.ko > 9 1 0xffffffff823ee000 26228 if_iwm.ko > 10 1 0xffffffff82415000 2d58 msdosfs_iconv.ko > 11 1 0xffffffff82418000 2d40 cd9660_iconv.ko > 12 1 0xffffffff828c7000 63e0 usbhid.ko > 13 2 0xffffffff828ce000 6db0 hidbus.ko > 14 1 0xffffffff828d5000 5b4ec8 zfs.ko > 15 1 0xffffffff82e8a000 2e48 nvram.ko > 16 1 0xffffffff82e8d000 3ca0 smb.ko > 17 2 0xffffffff82e91000 3d50 smbus.ko > 18 1 0xffffffff82e95000 4358 cpuct1.ko > db> > > ===== End `kldstat` output by ddb ===== > > All are loaded by /boot.loader.conf. > fdescfs.ko seems to missing compared to k`kldstat` from single user > shell, but it could be loaded on remounting (for rw access) fs. > > Modules loaded via rc.conf on sane boot is as follows. > It should include modules automatically loaded by defd. > Address should be different, as revision is different. > Manually kldload'ing No.20 though 28 (including auto-loaded as > dependency: 21,25 and 27) did't cause hang up on single user sh of > affected revision. > > ===== Additional modules ===== > > 20 1 0xffffffff83614000 174c8 smbfs.ko > 21 2 0xffffffff8362c000 3090 libmchain.ko > 22 1 0xffffffff83630000 5658 tpm.ko > 23 1 0xffffffff83636000 11ea0 fusefs.ko > 24 1 0xffffffff83648000 106310 nvidia-modeset.ko > 25 1 0xffffffff83800000 1fa1a48 nvidia.ko > 26 2 0xffffffff8374f000 2cce0 linux.ko > 27 6 0xffffffff8377c000 9ea8 linux_common.ko > 28 1 0xffffffff83786000 4350 acpi_video.ko > 29 1 0xffffffff8378b000 3378 acpi_wmi.ko > 30 2 0xffffffff8378f000 21d8 hconf.ko > 31 1 0xffffffff83792000 21e8 hcons.ko > 32 3 0xffffffff83795000 30a8 hidmap.ko > 33 1 0xffffffff83799000 21e8 hms.ko > 34 1 0xffffffff8379c000 32c0 hmt.ko > 35 1 0xffffffff837a0000 21e8 hpen.ko > 36 1 0xffffffff837a3000 3250 ichsmb.ko > 37 1 0xffffffff837a7000 6c9c ig4.ko > 38 1 0xffffffff837ae000 433c iicbus.ko > 39 1 0xffffffff837b3000 2110 pchtherm.ko > 40 1 0xffffffff837b6000 28f40 linux64.ko > 41 1 0xffffffff837df000 2260 pty.ko > 42 1 0xffffffff837e2000 639c linprocfs.ko > 43 1 0xffffffff837e9000 3284 linsysfs.ko > 44 1 0xffffffff837ed000 4c20 ng_ubt.ko > 45 6 0xffffffff837f2000 aac8 netgraph.ko > 46 2 0xffffffff857a2000 9238 ng_hci.ko > 47 3 0xffffffff837fd000 25a8 ng_bluetooth.ko > 48 1 0xffffffff857ac000 d250 ng_l2cap.ko > 49 1 0xffffffff857ba000 1bef8 ng_btsocket.ko > 50 1 0xffffffff857d6000 39d0 ng_socket.ko > 51 1 0xffffffff857da000 27040 ipfw.ko > > ===== End additional modules ===== > > > -- > Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Sat Sep 25 04:45:44 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A8817DE365 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 04:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [96.47.72.132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HGbv14P4pz3H1L; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 04:45:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632545149; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: references:references; bh=E+sdf5gMQnDozbpn4vSEF3tVuN4E1jaMMgXpGlfwsP8=; b=oRsTExdg+zr7fk5leLjwirSwgBRgXkCU7vjL3ZQt0MLIcjzQmV/2MY4psG5oE2wNjtEHJK 4z3NG25+w13Ru4vGObeRy8yK6uf7tKBetfyhRdI2nfPQHCiQUKzJ8ZcVc06bDFze5bhoLL iHs4BGccqhBI5hiEwCqFoYpyCJmW7h9zHKnfdce4iZr1U3z7T6vodJlUr/nQ1McC9HyWn8 9nYCGf8+vJO2SlnV5s4ZTMovGtSOFuagAULg+eLk4Jcd+ImWWb8iWybNqERozdQPwcF5tG gHUZEJl8D2kT+LptEYXYQqm9IP9X6wtNAZs5pLRn8E/ox+IVvCQ9mU0qc7imew== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id 729A91DA2E; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 04:45:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 06:45:44 +0200 Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1632545149; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: references:references; bh=E+sdf5gMQnDozbpn4vSEF3tVuN4E1jaMMgXpGlfwsP8=; b=dG3K7WVOulbtLLzZecJsXDlxAq4/S558QhYYdqf8SN36k+n5vCXFSVV1Rqu52trJtdU4KU FvomLSChvYIhZmhtrSufv19YbB1xDLOCUgpyZzBiCJSYuxIPK6XojaQeyHnOswmuaKWwwc PXDEldhXFwDQfSFmoUZqmk8i5k1eey4exP6txHidbrAAes8chsXs8mFTSMSJxlttL3mn+4 SK/N6ag0FW6pxkp9huxkVnAKv4Nv/1o7rZMrjBazAbyZh301oBtYM7nhlS6QbpPsS0li6l b+B5HN1yEfQDgv1O6AuYaYY0cTPjnG/VX0B/olrtTWuSq+mM6j2WJKZATrg8bA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1632545149; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=J8N2A3VZ4Kiqj/psmYnFgE4c27WpUbpiGCy9A/4subVhkio90AdxvCYIsx6H4KmGlE8Q91 GnlpRR/8nkMe+5IhXnyYCDEE2gkKhQFcmDZWx48ehASxralbVIH2Bix78JZho2wECuyVFN +cs2KVEeXJp7zNKXygImoUjsY4ckxiagpYLXLrV+LcPYo9hwSxZMNfSnZvk8d40Qpul4Vm nN+QdXsrmdDH7aNYmo2EACLmq1604DIq52nNMmCHX/avpJcdowoMTX0dwitEZKc0mcLlN5 O+VHrhypVLOhnQp9U9LwoBZ3opv1RMSlgryep3OrLrnK5bzVyDlWLC5BzeWWyg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Tomoaki AOKI writes: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 > David Wolfskill wrote: > >> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: >> > I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. >> > I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 >> > >> > This is a vm running on vmware. >> > If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. >> > >> > uname -a >> > FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 >> > main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 >> > root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 >> > .... >> >> I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either >> from yesterday: >> >> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 >> main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 >> root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY >> amd64 1400033 1400033 >> >> or today: >> >> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 >> main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 >> root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY >> amd64 1400033 1400033 >> >> [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines >> in sync rather aggressively.] >> >> Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my >> environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? >> >> Peace, >> david >> -- >> David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org >> Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. >> >> See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. > > For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, > > Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce > Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 > > Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. > > Failure mode: > Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. > Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting > hostid. Does "git revert --no-edit -2 8db1669959ce" help? Do you modify kern.sched.* via /etc/sysctl.conf? From nobody Sat Sep 25 16:10:24 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660A417CC6CA for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 16:10:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HGv4z5Sspz4kM1 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 16:10:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from joh.hendriks@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id x7so34135382edd.6 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 09:10:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=G2mMpnl/oVAGAqBrGAhpdvSseGwEgKdT5RhkmTr9lL8=; b=GmQZ5ewMjtjIMmJh4vYWjbF4g36MspLxe3Cvqi/ANgIQDWiaawjc7y7W72d9UXx05X Sw6EdxE20xhA/adBk5QLMw5ZKOnyEdfESSk1AT/bA/QlcGDGS9aR09Tlyv4Zv0NHspKb P6jaFImnbjbkUIbXHj+lmzSHCGdu97Sk6SoAh3h2xG5soR41nqVW2Fdts893hHrnBp/f KptIK0eYIRdCceoMdhmXCnS1hkmHE4vOvbAjIc6ZsGTbw5/F++4ZnYwfV8ZNHeEPgUQH YdBKuFqRA7H+lOFu8hlOslxxil0kyh2gAqzXOC8IGFxkBJfeJg/1HmTdL7AcKlOtE83K x/xA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=G2mMpnl/oVAGAqBrGAhpdvSseGwEgKdT5RhkmTr9lL8=; b=LvxVrR5WPlY3H7LKVCQpnX76czzAKq/9eujXamAWV5Sf6GhjlV2nGKrR66s04sOKB7 H4eDtrGkl/GVbDB3jIjs37UCgN2QWxqIDA2LXOOec9+M4driIVMnY9gySjtkolND85tZ rbX6qpTA9l1JkWSC2BUWp1dNHvdJw4Qg2ynppJ04SBuDiuITNJgzdClaUd5JiNrdaX2x vooK2hWcuLA07VpREjOBLbe61qwviw1jHRXJ8n9UCmUX+uA0X3I0rmh3l/Y4yyho627c kH6Vd/4dPPrTypSwhCQeVF2YtPvdZsHaVjBFVtg+SLatFVwrFEuwnljsf9IURrRL7r3/ GGyg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533QB7s6NduhbBZHiavt8RLl9nvxIac7i7gHt5QTTtjW6KQkUrEV 4fVjloXxph7aP2smaVad+ctJlXTK2Dk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxuONjx+CU6TOwH8+vBytX+Bv1e40kAXkZA1OSyt+72kdU8Yp/J05hmPJ8r3rHcd4phS/x0lQ== X-Received: by 2002:a50:ab18:: with SMTP id s24mr12401126edc.88.1632586225062; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 09:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MacBook-Pro-van-Johan.local (85-147-130-226.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl. [85.147.130.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ku7sm6485142ejc.90.2021.09.25.09.10.24 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 25 Sep 2021 09:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Johan Hendriks Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 18:10:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HGv4z5Sspz4kM1 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=GmQZ5ewM; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johhendriks@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johhendriks@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.932]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52f:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 25/09/2021 06:45, Jan Beich wrote: > Tomoaki AOKI writes: > >> On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 05:47:46 -0700 >> David Wolfskill wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 02:39:37PM +0200, Johan Hendriks wrote: >>>> I did a git pull this morning and it fails to boot. >>>> I hangs at Setting hostid : 0x917bf354 >>>> >>>> This is a vm running on vmware. >>>> If i boot the old kernel from yesterday it boots normally. >>>> >>>> uname -a >>>> FreeBSD varnish-cdn-node03 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #0 >>>> main-n249518-5572fda3a2f: Tue Sep 21 14:40:22 CEST 2021 >>>> root@varnish-cdn-node03:/usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/KRNL amd64 >>>> .... >>> I had no issues with my build machine or either of two laptops, either >>> from yesterday: >>> >>> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #358 >>> main-n249518-5572fda3a2f3: Tue Sep 21 05:15:22 PDT 2021 >>> root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY >>> amd64 1400033 1400033 >>> >>> or today: >>> >>> FreeBSD g1-55.catwhisker.org 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #359 >>> main-n249556-c96da1994587: Wed Sep 22 04:24:17 PDT 2021 >>> root@g1-55.catwhisker.org:/common/S4/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/CANARY >>> amd64 1400033 1400033 >>> >>> [uname strings from my main laptop shown, but I keep the machines >>> in sync rather aggressively.] >>> >>> Perhaps the issue you are encountering involves things not in my >>> environment (such as VMs or ZFS)? >>> >>> Peace, >>> david >>> -- >>> David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org >>> Life is not intended to be a zero-sum game. >>> >>> See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. >> For me, on bare metal (non-vm) amd64 with root-on-ZFS, >> >> Fails to boot to multiuser at git: 8db1669959ce >> Boot fine at git: 0b79a76f8487 >> >> Boot to singleuser is fine even with failed revision. >> >> Failure mode: >> Hard hangup or spinning and non-operable. Hard power-off needed. >> Seems to happen after starting rc.conf processing and before setting >> hostid. > Does "git revert --no-edit -2 8db1669959ce" help? Do you modify > kern.sched.* via /etc/sysctl.conf? > For me i had kern.sched.steal_thresh=1 in my sysctl as i use this machine mainly for tests and so on. By removing this sysctl the system boots again. I already used the latest snapshot and that booted fine. regards Johan From nobody Sat Sep 25 20:46:48 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECE317C68DD for ; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 20:46:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HH1Cv2m6Cz3RB8; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 20:46:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (unknown [195.64.148.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: avg/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DE7F5E37F; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 20:46:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. To: Johan Hendriks , freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: <36221848-2b85-4a60-fd27-d4bf83d4571e@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 23:46:48 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0 Thunderbird/78.14.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 25/09/2021 19:10, Johan Hendriks wrote: > For me i had kern.sched.steal_thresh=1 in my sysctl as i use this machine mainly > for tests and so on. > By removing this sysctl the system boots again. I already used the latest > snapshot and that booted fine. Might have something to do with https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=bd84094a51c4648a7c97ececdaccfb30bc832096 -- Andriy Gapon From nobody Sun Sep 26 01:23:47 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC6717DCDFE for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:24:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HH7Mg0g86z4T9p for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:23:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-48-130-181.area1b.commufa.jp [123.48.130.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.16.1/8.16.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 18Q1NlYi059123 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:23:48 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:23:47 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-Id: <20210926102347.c538169dddec5f2ff50d8e4c@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <36221848-2b85-4a60-fd27-d4bf83d4571e@FreeBSD.org> References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <36221848-2b85-4a60-fd27-d4bf83d4571e@FreeBSD.org> Reply-To: junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HH7Mg0g86z4T9p X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp has no SPF policy when checking 153.125.133.21) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.22 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.985]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[123.48.130.181:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.65)[-0.651]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sakura.ne.jp]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 23:46:48 +0300 Andriy Gapon wrote: > On 25/09/2021 19:10, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > For me i had kern.sched.steal_thresh=1 in my sysctl as i use this machine mainly > > for tests and so on. > > By removing this sysctl the system boots again. I already used the latest > > snapshot and that booted fine. > > Might have something to do with > https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=bd84094a51c4648a7c97ececdaccfb30bc832096 > > -- > Andriy Gapon Commenting out kern.sched.steal_thresh=0 line in /etc/sysctl.conf let me boot fine. No other setting of kern.sched.* affected. I've introduced the setting by reading posts [1] and [2] on freebsd-current ML. Thanks for the hint, Jan! Andriy, I took time to bi-sect and determined the commit triggered this issue was e745d729be60. [3] Worked OK even with kern.sched.steal_thresh=0 at a342ecd326ee. [4] Tested commits are as below (tested order, not using git bisect): 0b79a76f8487: [Known to be OK] 8db1669959ce: [Problematic rev I first encountered] 0f6829488ef3: OK df8dd6025af8: OK 4f917847c903: OK e745d729be60: NG! bd84094a51c4: OK a342ecd326ee: OK Konstantin, no more chance to get into ddb on hang up until my previous post. ^T never worked on hang up situation. Sory. But does info above help? [1] https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2021-March/079237.html [2] https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2021-March/079240.html [3] https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/dev-commits-src-main/2021-September/007513.html [4] https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/dev-commits-src-main/2021-September/007512.html -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Sun Sep 26 01:47:10 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB2C917DF87A for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HH7tm3GBVz4X1q; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 18Q1lAKn083742 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 26 Sep 2021 04:47:13 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua 18Q1lAKn083742 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 18Q1lAO0083741; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 04:47:10 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 04:47:10 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, mav@freebsd.org Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. Message-ID: References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <36221848-2b85-4a60-fd27-d4bf83d4571e@FreeBSD.org> <20210926102347.c538169dddec5f2ff50d8e4c@dec.sakura.ne.jp> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210926102347.c538169dddec5f2ff50d8e4c@dec.sakura.ne.jp> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FROM, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on tom.home X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HH7tm3GBVz4X1q X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 10:23:47AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 23:46:48 +0300 > Andriy Gapon wrote: > > > On 25/09/2021 19:10, Johan Hendriks wrote: > > > For me i had kern.sched.steal_thresh=1 in my sysctl as i use this machine mainly > > > for tests and so on. > > > By removing this sysctl the system boots again. I already used the latest > > > snapshot and that booted fine. > > > > Might have something to do with > > https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=bd84094a51c4648a7c97ececdaccfb30bc832096 > > > > -- > > Andriy Gapon > > Commenting out kern.sched.steal_thresh=0 line in /etc/sysctl.conf let > me boot fine. No other setting of kern.sched.* affected. > I've introduced the setting by reading posts [1] and [2] on > freebsd-current ML. Thanks for the hint, Jan! > > Andriy, I took time to bi-sect and determined the commit triggered > this issue was e745d729be60. [3] > Worked OK even with kern.sched.steal_thresh=0 at a342ecd326ee. [4] > > Tested commits are as below (tested order, not using git bisect): > 0b79a76f8487: [Known to be OK] > 8db1669959ce: [Problematic rev I first encountered] > 0f6829488ef3: OK > df8dd6025af8: OK > 4f917847c903: OK > e745d729be60: NG! > bd84094a51c4: OK > a342ecd326ee: OK > > Konstantin, no more chance to get into ddb on hang up until my previous > post. ^T never worked on hang up situation. Sory. But does info above > help? Let the author of the commit look. > > > [1] > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2021-March/079237.html > > [2] > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2021-March/079240.html > > [3] > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/dev-commits-src-main/2021-September/007513.html > > [4] > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/dev-commits-src-main/2021-September/007512.html > > -- > Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Sun Sep 26 06:25:29 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D961817D5F87 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:25:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic306-19.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic306-19.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HHG3l4ddsz4shX for ; 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Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:25:32 +0000 Received: by kubenode532.mail-prod1.omega.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b45843b4664eb0066232195f00463308; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:25:30 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: I get odd time reports from poudriere on armv7 system, under a (non-debug) main [so: 14] FreeBSD. Message-Id: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 23:25:29 -0700 Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Bryan Drewery To: freebsd-current , Free BSD X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) References: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HHG3l4ddsz4shX X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=fgS6UhiR; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.68.82 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.82:from]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.82:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.991]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] Reply-To: marklmi@yahoo.com From: Mark Millard via freebsd-ports X-Original-From: Mark Millard X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N I get odd time reports from poudriere on an armv7 under main [so: 14]: # poudriere bulk -jmain-CA7 lang/rust [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done . . . [00:00:00] Balancing pool [main-CA7-default] [2021-09-25_23h11m13s] [balancing_pool:] Queued: 70 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 70 = Time: -258342:-3:-36 [00:00:00] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done . . . # poudriere bulk -j13_0R-CA7 lang/rust [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done . . . [00:00:00] Balancing pool [13_0R-CA7-default] [2021-09-25_18h06m23s] [balancing_pool:] Queued: 1 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 1 = Time: -9522:-38:-44 [00:00:00] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done . . . # poudriere bulk -j13_0R-CA7 lang/rust [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done . . . [00:00:00] Balancing pool [13_0R-CA7-default] [2021-09-25_22h52m58s] [balancing_pool:] Queued: 1 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 1 = Time: -666894:-15:-9 [00:00:00] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done . . . For reference: # poudriere version poudriere-git-3.3.99.20210907_1 # uname -apKU FreeBSD OPiP2E_RPi2v11 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #9 = main-n249019-0637070b5bca-dirty: Sat Sep 4 03:15:41 PDT 2021 = root@CA72_16Gp_ZFS:/usr/obj/BUILDs/main-CA7-nodbg-clang/usr/main-src/arm.a= rmv7/sys/GENERIC-NODBG-CA7 arm armv7 1400032 1400032 # poudriere jail -jmain-CA7 -i Jail name: main-CA7 Jail version: 14.0-CURRENT Jail arch: arm.armv7 Jail method: null Jail mount: /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/main-CA7-poud Jail fs: =20 Jail updated: 2021-06-27 17:58:33 Jail pkgbase: disabled # poudriere jail -j13_0R-CA7 -i Jail name: 13_0R-CA7 Jail version: 13.0-RELEASE-p4 Jail arch: arm.armv7 Jail method: null Jail mount: /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/13_0R-CA7-poud Jail fs: =20 Jail updated: 2021-09-06 19:10:46 Jail pkgbase: disabled # chroot /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/main-CA7-poud/ # uname -apKU FreeBSD OPiP2E_RPi2v11 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #9 = main-n249019-0637070b5bca-dirty: Sat Sep 4 03:15:41 PDT 2021 = root@CA72_16Gp_ZFS:/usr/obj/BUILDs/main-CA7-nodbg-clang/usr/main-src/arm.a= rmv7/sys/GENERIC-NODBG-CA7 arm armv7 1400032 1400032 # chroot /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/13_0R-CA7-poud/ # uname -apKU FreeBSD OPiP2E_RPi2v11 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #9 = main-n249019-0637070b5bca-dirty: Sat Sep 4 03:15:41 PDT 2021 = root@CA72_16Gp_ZFS:/usr/obj/BUILDs/main-CA7-nodbg-clang/usr/main-src/arm.a= rmv7/sys/GENERIC-NODBG-CA7 arm armv7 1400032 1300139 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar) From nobody Sun Sep 26 09:27:20 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3FC17E4389 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 09:27:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic312-23.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic312-23.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.204]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HHL5c1zLWz3N1v for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 09:27:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1632648444; bh=G9eEh6bIUtWmZ06SghCrjbcDPPA6QcsspJr/MInK2lA=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=qggohMrpZdk4ZcHUvChWyuoPktnL++gsOP1vuNW9LEc+ul1BWTN6Yv6g3IvzsyzPSFavA8JNN7pwXe8z8KIDCC9Kii+6uoK4IuvOUs0FCDh7MW+5wbmll5VVDrXu4fHFZHP4Qg6MVY7YbzDtQKLth7FgCQeNrdQBYueR/SxT7WZVIB2VGyb1e2h/BoV79+myBNeeEPyUQk4E3y8rD2sgoMidDChyl++VAxTV1bRkCQG4PL6LBTYrqd88uvfcCtdCdB0pETqmSyMj+KnMyLpmDS1tvuawJ8W1nP4G5/mSht7iXrw5sBz5NQZlGDl842ii0q3DeMSuDa2DDd5UOYNuyg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1632648444; bh=OIWjYMKs72mZHnjQ3JPkngU70aAKArWyFW45srmwYBj=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=m3QPd3/7y1OwG2FZyk1zFs/0XCn+e65HNiWLTp60aP9C1k5d0D8DKzVqA1731sVI8W2jYmgkE1TyEvyePNShT3ii7bkOA178jKLOSaxQZ9JBdmnrhuPYrL4fhYqo6tNqh0cD12mkoc82ky758L+Zx6oaGpXea2N+pRcNDyffkl8M3vpcDQzyianEOPfUFvQSettZFcsAy8X3Za8LGwBg6DHUHz0+9vceT8q93K61jQZc7QJ/wWVjEWBUY7ztP/YQUGzdNaD74R2Sm1NinWVqH50EIJrS8hFTBIcGn4piFTplcX+zEotCYeKaYv9iAElzPblrKOlMqBYZCe+0hSIzEw== X-YMail-OSG: xdwqoj4VM1l5pexCOKhybXC6d1Ar5yxs7wFYEyPa9uFdFDTB_fC2L5r3cfYZPr1 7MARazJQdIVb0HRBhgwul3o3Isl.ltqRkDDu0cm6IML6.xVDusOJpDhP2mb9dCZAsFqyBzrHCW1i 8DsQDa8MnPVM0VC4iy9bsA4uPL9FI_.8EbOTkeDA1ZciTFIzRSAMwG4.1jdBWdaEKJdpm805jrSz mEBGr42oimIuPPNiGKkVhl0Xxu5qweHHN.RDiQ3IlwP01EUEvVGFbOANbNG_3gthX0NWj5xIj5SI Y_9cPg4EpDuAx1uu57UIM53xl7rQXEfVwCWvIRWpoJY2OCTy9r1qGwLxm5KaQPXGwBFkLB61biqk 9e4qtre72k.I8lInqkfmWgR28HR6F4HfVKVNOJJJrS6iphTxu45osi5tBIckVZNZnyu.fitKuMjR YZX4IQTOsdmIiSlUMbJAGKw_3B4esH0JbalKfje5bgGFVYXis0JZ51jHybY3ZsNx2puu4PqKfmNJ SPw9G1RcqeA8briNxzGC4CsAURwOn3zVpRDXh3tjI8RqaiFbjLS0y2hNw7Zq3aSTthhBNLJA7g_9 buzXdbbONeAsmXXEN0gccgTOpayltf64WBxiZAqsIGN_SjGNA8cz0wZLr21UPZ07yF8GhYdXMkRE FqA0lqBSszqdf6mzjDM.Nc2jz9wPBHNh7SYuFd9WdZVcaEMsdUyWe9Wmy_pOFDAlM90ZKfbG.v6d .Z9et2TZDMQhAbrqixYKr5ZQISawIllm8CJ1GKXpM7gVT8M5cxJEp9xgYwj2t01mSVHJplvKLWcn 2l6cQCQPcWFWM8O9yncKxox.zynQrzr0UWP2t6ZLbBAvs.Pv_HETPBw7MEN7j6BT7GIEaH42DTZ5 itq.Vtx8yCgqx_E.0m8gduwm_Yhl8nV0gOnEeINhPzPPSDkZIAOdw3RjlR5DBgPq59doV5w.VTqh fqlYbggyFX7yvcsUGr66je346YtuFKxBFF_k_HYbupGJFOxevvBHmh2ZQI3vExilMOEJkYl1v.6. 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In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:27:20 -0700 Cc: freebsd-current , Free BSD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <187B69AF-9465-41DE-BFD0-A4AA0F7F9068@yahoo.com> References: To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Bryan Drewery X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HHL5c1zLWz3N1v X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=qggohMrp; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.69.204 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.69.204:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.204:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] Reply-To: marklmi@yahoo.com From: Mark Millard via freebsd-current X-Original-From: Mark Millard X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2021-Sep-25, at 23:25, Mark Millard wrote: > I get odd time reports from poudriere on an armv7 under main [so: 14]: >=20 >=20 >=20 > # poudriere bulk -jmain-CA7 lang/rust > [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done > . . . > [00:00:00] Balancing pool > [main-CA7-default] [2021-09-25_23h11m13s] [balancing_pool:] Queued: 70 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 70 = Time: -258342:-3:-36 > [00:00:00] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done > . . . >=20 >=20 > # poudriere bulk -j13_0R-CA7 lang/rust > [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done > . . . > [00:00:00] Balancing pool > [13_0R-CA7-default] [2021-09-25_18h06m23s] [balancing_pool:] Queued: 1 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 1 = Time: -9522:-38:-44 > [00:00:00] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done > . . . >=20 >=20 > # poudriere bulk -j13_0R-CA7 lang/rust > [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done > . . . > [00:00:00] Balancing pool > [13_0R-CA7-default] [2021-09-25_22h52m58s] [balancing_pool:] Queued: 1 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 1 = Time: -666894:-15:-9 > [00:00:00] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done > . . . >=20 >=20 > For reference: >=20 > # poudriere version > poudriere-git-3.3.99.20210907_1 >=20 > # uname -apKU > FreeBSD OPiP2E_RPi2v11 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #9 = main-n249019-0637070b5bca-dirty: Sat Sep 4 03:15:41 PDT 2021 = root@CA72_16Gp_ZFS:/usr/obj/BUILDs/main-CA7-nodbg-clang/usr/main-src/arm.a= rmv7/sys/GENERIC-NODBG-CA7 arm armv7 1400032 1400032 >=20 > # poudriere jail -jmain-CA7 -i > Jail name: main-CA7 > Jail version: 14.0-CURRENT > Jail arch: arm.armv7 > Jail method: null > Jail mount: /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/main-CA7-poud > Jail fs: =20 > Jail updated: 2021-06-27 17:58:33 > Jail pkgbase: disabled >=20 > # poudriere jail -j13_0R-CA7 -i > Jail name: 13_0R-CA7 > Jail version: 13.0-RELEASE-p4 > Jail arch: arm.armv7 > Jail method: null > Jail mount: /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/13_0R-CA7-poud > Jail fs: =20 > Jail updated: 2021-09-06 19:10:46 > Jail pkgbase: disabled >=20 > # chroot /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/main-CA7-poud/ > # uname -apKU > FreeBSD OPiP2E_RPi2v11 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #9 = main-n249019-0637070b5bca-dirty: Sat Sep 4 03:15:41 PDT 2021 = root@CA72_16Gp_ZFS:/usr/obj/BUILDs/main-CA7-nodbg-clang/usr/main-src/arm.a= rmv7/sys/GENERIC-NODBG-CA7 arm armv7 1400032 1400032 >=20 > # chroot /usr/obj/DESTDIRs/13_0R-CA7-poud/ > # uname -apKU > FreeBSD OPiP2E_RPi2v11 14.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT #9 = main-n249019-0637070b5bca-dirty: Sat Sep 4 03:15:41 PDT 2021 = root@CA72_16Gp_ZFS:/usr/obj/BUILDs/main-CA7-nodbg-clang/usr/main-src/arm.a= rmv7/sys/GENERIC-NODBG-CA7 arm armv7 1400032 1300139 >=20 This looks to be poudriere's problem . . . poudriere/src/libexec/poudriere/clock/clock.c has: if (argc =3D=3D 3 && strcmp(argv[2], "-nsec") =3D=3D 0) printf("%ld.%ld\n", ts.tv_sec, ts.tv_nsec); else printf("%ld\n", ts.tv_sec); where: struct timespec { time_t tv_sec; /* seconds */ long tv_nsec; /* and nanoseconds */ }; but for tv_sec the type is for armv7: /usr/include/machine/_types.h:typedef __int64_t __time_t; = /* time()... */ =46rom man arch: Machine-dependent type sizes: Architecture void * long double time_t aarch64 8 16 8 amd64 8 16 8 armv6 4 8 8 armv7 4 8 8 i386 4 12 4 mips 4 8 8 mipsel 4 8 8 mipselhf 4 8 8 mipshf 4 8 8 mipsn32 4 8 8 mips64 8 8 8 mips64el 8 8 8 mips64elhf 8 8 8 mips64hf 8 8 8 powerpc 4 8 8 powerpcspe 4 8 8 powerpc64 8 8 8 powerpc64le 8 8 8 riscv64 8 16 8 riscv64sf 8 16 8 %ld is for long arguments, 32-bits in an ILP32 context, not __int64_t (long long) arguments. Applies to armv6, armv7, mips, mipsel, mipselhf, mipshf, mipsn32, powerpc, and powerpcspe. Note: i386 should use %ld for time_t for FreeBSD, despite being IPL32. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com ( dsl-only.net went away in early 2018-Mar) From nobody Sun Sep 26 16:16:55 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C37C17E6AAE for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 16:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mavbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HHWB2286cz4f8q for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 16:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mavbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id a13so14488180qtw.10 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 09:16:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NvemzORu/SHvwuVfNVRoVBVORbPY6etpZmNo5N+G88s=; b=COOCWCsKpXtXcBVG3y0CZLAsK6Hr53H5bZU7nzHWbAb29WH8QYTH7VkQUrMRUAKzYx 0EvJYc6crne+Nfg0s1qQRlwTqS81eFIx06arcRZQMy31r+VzCxqIwe8RpKxRj6BjPgxd cUWoX9bpcO07jWPS5U+x2Iclwfqaw4mAe8U/ALTOta6E9t1dDlV+VB6o9yZWrhjueeGF JpXJa3m/f4vJGw47KhLu4piT93OCXyaPvPw3Zk347phf64kvL9ypOaBSJQhEOajMvrii quIqZ76Rv75X4m0xBoDPdqCQkvGIW+4RJcGMOKOBRTklFOQ45LpfDWV9vgSWYjEYEe3V 3/nA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NvemzORu/SHvwuVfNVRoVBVORbPY6etpZmNo5N+G88s=; b=acmd8FHqmO1LdtMi/GbD4RrgPoDs2tYMB4udQSOYF6y/rSJ8Pc4eRdx362eeskI2MV HzqKb11C1mFayD3VZJwMKcNwRAJdAzh+wc07twL7yzTZEhFyo3B957Y+3E2SPrKq6ITr 1YZZltXAC7QN/pupTvEkuy3xmqzPD6so+k0SJrZal8uyeNw+lwlnFXAo9AcYiJFptNhI MvgRn3CUSnhXgAw3qEBvPwGgoQ2YOloo31qh3UQs9WKs01dahNLqWkPHSUwu77YqiAl1 XH/n+Z4oEJggokyVWMSWJJkOfuBHo0nHgdNemjVVpSr31sLVuHXZs9uS056BkFctWXzI 0yZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532pNdAOVFN1BoyIGInZzuel9Wi1layY6ov4KDbWwMstU83WF1LW mkC8m1lRrGluk0OnU1VWvjyaFtPMcCQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzvDvwUZZxnShlWydG/TU66fXICarKBQjltMvu7yTOkEHkLiyToe0Mm/2t2YjSAO1fcvd51mA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:87:: with SMTP id c7mr13607909qtg.54.1632673017309; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 09:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spectre.mavhome.dp.ua (104-55-12-234.lightspeed.knvltn.sbcglobal.net. [104.55.12.234]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm10577631qkc.52.2021.09.26.09.16.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 26 Sep 2021 09:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: latest current fails to boot. To: Konstantin Belousov , Tomoaki AOKI Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20210922230905.79a494a4ddbecd7d6b8179ea@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <36221848-2b85-4a60-fd27-d4bf83d4571e@FreeBSD.org> <20210926102347.c538169dddec5f2ff50d8e4c@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Alexander Motin Message-ID: <9a9a43f9-0474-0c32-afb9-13c2f7c33e51@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:16:55 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HHWB2286cz4f8q X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Thank you for the notification. 08063e9f98a should fix the hang. I just want to add that lowering kern.sched.steal_thresh below 2 should not be a proper fix for any problem, but only a workaround. I guess either some CPU can't wake up from sleep for too long, or the wakeup interrupt is not properly sent to it when the load is assigned. In such case stealing makes other CPU to do the work instead. It would be good to find and fix the real problem. On 25.09.2021 21:47, Konstantin Belousov wrote: > On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 10:23:47AM +0900, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: >> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 23:46:48 +0300 >> Andriy Gapon wrote: >> >>> On 25/09/2021 19:10, Johan Hendriks wrote: >>>> For me i had kern.sched.steal_thresh=1 in my sysctl as i use this machine mainly >>>> for tests and so on. >>>> By removing this sysctl the system boots again. I already used the latest >>>> snapshot and that booted fine. >>> >>> Might have something to do with >>> https://cgit.FreeBSD.org/src/commit/?id=bd84094a51c4648a7c97ececdaccfb30bc832096 >>> >>> -- >>> Andriy Gapon >> >> Commenting out kern.sched.steal_thresh=0 line in /etc/sysctl.conf let >> me boot fine. No other setting of kern.sched.* affected. >> I've introduced the setting by reading posts [1] and [2] on >> freebsd-current ML. Thanks for the hint, Jan! >> >> Andriy, I took time to bi-sect and determined the commit triggered >> this issue was e745d729be60. [3] >> Worked OK even with kern.sched.steal_thresh=0 at a342ecd326ee. [4] >> >> Tested commits are as below (tested order, not using git bisect): >> 0b79a76f8487: [Known to be OK] >> 8db1669959ce: [Problematic rev I first encountered] >> 0f6829488ef3: OK >> df8dd6025af8: OK >> 4f917847c903: OK >> e745d729be60: NG! >> bd84094a51c4: OK >> a342ecd326ee: OK >> >> Konstantin, no more chance to get into ddb on hang up until my previous >> post. ^T never worked on hang up situation. Sory. But does info above >> help? > Let the author of the commit look. > >> >> >> [1] >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2021-March/079237.html >> >> [2] >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2021-March/079240.html >> >> [3] >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/dev-commits-src-main/2021-September/007513.html >> >> [4] >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/dev-commits-src-main/2021-September/007512.html >> >> -- >> Tomoaki AOKI -- Alexander Motin From nobody Sun Sep 26 17:02:56 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA6617EA5B3 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:03:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.129.228]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HHXCD6x0lz4jfr for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:03:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1632675779; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=eiEpG90PYW54aCc/O89O6G5y4zSiBftbsBfuHz9Z6PZhoRGmPnzlaitUv158/2HOtlPY6ib77/18q miQmpweutBJW5JTqZJVlAJgrurIRJfUEDVxrutWp50LGRi68RqVrqgBpdhwEEPf49HmL5wjMs5hn4a QoXT4fuxUfV/4UAi5PNeiJJtRHdIzCIKStQkNjychm8m8E4tUqT5C8WBvOhANZtW3F2WY+gcyRibIW cO3NT4QOc24qMlEsG2suq88/gmyFk7Jchu56wROS7ADQv0uI3kZYiMOFQTvTDGsU34/GuvFV94n7bu JgbSCoR6Bz5UzIimq0hoIUoqdnX/0jA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=2jDkP5yZs/ytannxDi1Ugq/e7ozY2QzM0pnFWj0qEo4=; b=uq5MNXuOVcA44wYOyVhvdP+djp6vmM+xfnhAwhswhaRRVvuzQkohkrGCtUSKl4ddisjQEWmqK4aTL D4B8Pu8yto682onLE6AUWbbRJt5jJEc6Hr7rMItfAYMO1UcVFAPebzblMoxzNcxSGnPCP03hNQ9K5d OzllyeRkjUhcNqZtA/Pz05A/jlXNnq63g5fw0uiPPEbTAtO9O7EDLPF1xZrmC6cS54Qmkq6umOoJKL ahkMBTfPr5nzo/slWY2B9zG9vpFSS+NReyq2UYq5Zv95Ubi3mEv5gmqZPL1p+zoJVlKGZqbMcSUfUl +RkxvtEqTCCfi6Ps2SOeLOKbT2JU4QA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound4.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=24.8.225.114; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:cc:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=2jDkP5yZs/ytannxDi1Ugq/e7ozY2QzM0pnFWj0qEo4=; b=ToiADhACie3a8dc6hWtqwobQp+YcEAMgqVctNjlPQVmqcp5TD8Q0pYEhc97kwKKeO0C9DBGrmMDzg nyoD8TRvzuU3xh/MGvVYxCAJL6Apjs55HmfG8Vv6twEJrnkX8Zw3wiOQ7ITkQ8ct0xiV//wxZ0u3xs CvusCiTPMfr/Wg8LPIugFEVX8M3OHkyuqoxnlKTTROO+YVwgy9YIOamNSLYLjGvZESxBAQ9aXNCEEw 3sz57bZLoqCcASwmA+e+/2tMtTbMWtNUN3DbKw2KWU2IvbnxEOE02vifY2Gb9Gdk/lBCeaIHaHZmDc rzwYNwUnQxkTGWMCPsWhIpeqqzXGnjA== X-Originating-IP: 24.8.225.114 X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 98cf2fa7-1eeb-11ec-a67c-89389772cfc7 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (c-24-8-225-114.hsd1.co.comcast.net [24.8.225.114]) by outbound4.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 98cf2fa7-1eeb-11ec-a67c-89389772cfc7; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:02:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [172.22.42.84] (rev2.hippie.lan [172.22.42.84]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 18QH2udn073865; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 11:02:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: paranoia.hippie.lan: Host rev2.hippie.lan [172.22.42.84] claimed to be [172.22.42.84] Message-ID: Subject: Re: I get odd time reports from poudriere on armv7 system, under a (non-debug) main [so: 14] FreeBSD. From: Ian Lepore To: marklmi@yahoo.com, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Bryan Drewery Cc: freebsd-current , Free BSD Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 11:02:56 -0600 In-Reply-To: <187B69AF-9465-41DE-BFD0-A4AA0F7F9068@yahoo.com> References: <187B69AF-9465-41DE-BFD0-A4AA0F7F9068@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" User-Agent: Evolution 3.40.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HHXCD6x0lz4jfr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Sun, 2021-09-26 at 02:27 -0700, Mark Millard via freebsd-current wrote: > On 2021-Sep-25, at 23:25, Mark Millard wrote: > > > [...] >         if (argc == 3 && strcmp(argv[2], "-nsec") == 0) >                 printf("%ld.%ld\n", ts.tv_sec, ts.tv_nsec); There are two problems with this, both the seconds and nanos are printed incorrectly. The correct incantation would be printf("%jd.%09ld\n", (intmax_t)ts.tv_sec, ts.tv_nsec); -- Ian