From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 05:45:11 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE75E5CBA2E for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 05:45:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) Received: from kabab.cs.huji.ac.il (kabab.cs.huji.ac.il [132.65.116.210]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FCjRp2XLlz4SpY for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 05:45:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from danny@cs.huji.ac.il) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.huji.ac.il; s=57791128; h=References:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:Date:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Message-Id:From; bh=hiOtskUHD/W2KTDve3itO6xVu2YyBCxKEswC2HY4Fq4=; b=BKwygcW4A/RRcxVYo6U0VbfJoYSQe42HZKH0XKYOvcb354/hfY3OI+OSX+iK0ZXhfgU2K39He4xNgA6gTI8NXUzsKn2K7vWQAmUPdR5jb4i9Uen57a+LXI4TZes/XfXMoARH24sUZaLS828A+DGttfJ+97rMbEnik9hOy+NrSbap6fXAR/mlV92TK41vtUt6Hw0D8lWaK1yyM0NL86AFxkOolchPCOLkCg544RkpwUMv9b2BhmZAenGVwH8L0w3/YbNXcy9CgTdu0OcE5RS71nEXK2d8antIxQXiTliKRZvtanPdk7nQLVe+skLuJCsM4KO7K1ZHNFi1Iujrn59l9g==; Received: from bach.cs.huji.ac.il ([132.65.80.20]) by kabab.cs.huji.ac.il with esmtp id 1lSvZE-000ERw-TQ; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 08:45:00 +0300 From: Daniel Braniss Message-Id: <2596EB2A-8C43-42E5-947A-80EAAFE56EF7@cs.huji.ac.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: current make world brakes if HESIOD enabled Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 08:45:00 +0300 In-Reply-To: Cc: FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List To: Warner Losh References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FCjRp2XLlz4SpY X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cs.huji.ac.il header.s=57791128 header.b=BKwygcW4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=huji.ac.il; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of danny@cs.huji.ac.il has no SPF policy when checking 132.65.116.210) smtp.mailfrom=danny@cs.huji.ac.il X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[132.65.116.210:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cs.huji.ac.il:s=57791128]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[danny]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[132.65.116.210:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cs.huji.ac.il:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[huji.ac.il,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:378, ipnet:132.64.0.0/13, country:IL]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 05:45:11 -0000 > On 3 Apr 2021, at 20:22, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > What's the error if you don't have these extra uintptr_t casts? --- getgrent.o --- = = = =20 *** [getgrent.o] Error code 1 = = = =20 make[4]: stopped in /h/rnd/git/stable/13/lib/libc = = =20= --- getpwent.o --- = = = =20 /h/rnd/git/stable/13/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c:1111:8: error: cast to = smaller integer type 'enum nss_lookup_type' from 'void *' = [-Werror,-Wvoid-pointer-to-enum-cast] = =20 how =3D (enum nss_lookup_type)mdata; = = =20 ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ = = =20 1 error generated. =20 >=20 > Warner >=20 > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 12:18 AM Daniel Braniss > wrote: > I must be the last person on earth to use Hesiod :-) > this are the diffs: >=20 > diff --git a/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c b/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c > index afb89cab3..5832cb8c6 100644 > --- a/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c > +++ b/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c > @@ -971,7 +971,7 @@ dns_group(void *retval, void *mdata, va_list ap) > hes =3D NULL; > name =3D NULL; > gid =3D (gid_t)-1; > - how =3D (enum nss_lookup_type)mdata; > + how =3D (enum nss_lookup_type)(uintptr_t)mdata; > switch (how) { > case nss_lt_name: > name =3D va_arg(ap, const char *); > diff --git a/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c b/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c > index a07ee109e..bc1d341fd 100644 > --- a/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c > +++ b/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c > @@ -1108,7 +1108,7 @@ dns_passwd(void *retval, void *mdata, va_list = ap) > hes =3D NULL; > name =3D NULL; > uid =3D (uid_t)-1; > - how =3D (enum nss_lookup_type)mdata; > + how =3D (enum nss_lookup_type)(uintptr_t)mdata; > switch (how) { > case nss_lt_name: > name =3D va_arg(ap, const char *); >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing = list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable = > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org = " From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 17:32:32 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACD95AD72F for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 17:32:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com (mail-ed1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD17z2Xqqz3htH for ; 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Sun, 04 Apr 2021 10:32:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:32:17 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Dell XPS 8940 SATA and NVMe disk controller not recognized To: Karl Dunn Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , FreeBSD Stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD17z2Xqqz3htH X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=FvwaXXN+; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::52f) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52f:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52f:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52f:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 17:32:32 -0000 Hello :-) You may take a look at http://bsd-hardware.info/ report your hardware issues and see if other people have it working :-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 17:40:19 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C99575ADD83 for ; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tOzreEI4IoLCdRc1n0xN62OfDNOMlBgBZimnn0lJ8I8=; b=NEzxOef6BYBHIsRC7+hjUcGwtG4AjURWD87N03nP2wk6LR8/Mzi8CuyqpkDxqBG6Jk Em2qSTE7rnh1B337w9+04mvKmnoDCEcIZbVqAIhFvCIo61BLu8TReJgIi7XB1dDj5woI ecMCPRugPdLyhkGVntSrVWX5KxxPgeUrWRsGYPFPY2C3hBALkkrLCYQ4u7lqz8E8FAcG 4O8atjH4xik87VYMYQSAF0MsqM5himI+v2bIm7HheU6uWcAX0c7+8GXidkczX9RA7QU4 FybVm13E0cyQZVg+E0zMDXjrIiG1x3nhu3CDddG5FN4BcWTKcEF8A0WV2memKzuoVMYS 4u0w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hs0AxAJRwiuFRRe3TXuWKpuWpy4sEURIJ0J0kU/Fu46n6dQvv Bzv8P3fus4C4ZrCwtCFOn+9LpX6ryJqptc6n5G4pfA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2e6AVySV2ohLF05+wuZRd/Y120UODRK9jatVH/aqnRGLodm4ndu3qquz0CLxem1xJn0iWePy+oGXQarB2i/M= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:81d5:: with SMTP id e21mr24283070ejx.102.1617558017096; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 10:40:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5f82f6ed-f76e-fd84-b62b-c1866b69d81f@hiwaay.net> In-Reply-To: <5f82f6ed-f76e-fd84-b62b-c1866b69d81f@hiwaay.net> From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:40:05 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Dell XPS 8940 SATA and NVMe disk controller not recognized To: Karl Dunn Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , FreeBSD Stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD1Jy71Pfz3k4m X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=XTIwFx5H; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::62f) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62f:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62f:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62f:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 17:40:19 -0000 On Sun, Apr 4, 2021, 00:10 Karl Dunn wrote: > That worked, precisely as it did for you: gpart list shows partitions > and drives much to my expectations, and Win10 no longer boots. I can > boot windows by setting the BIOS config back to RAID. That's not much > of a pain. Now to try installing 12.2-RELEASE on the SSD! > > Thank you very much indeed! > You may want to boot from windoze iso installer and try "fix boot problems" when already in SATA controller mode. If that does not work and machine boots in UEFI mode you may want to adjust/select the proper EFI-BOOT partition to boot from. Usually this is the FAT32 partition with EFI boot loader. If that does not work you may simply re-install windoze from iso installer, serial number is now installed in BIOS/TPM, so you will have all OS working in SATA mode :-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sat Apr 3 19:37:58 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30525BD076; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 19:37:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from barney@databus.com) Received: from pit.databus.com (tunnel234559-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:80b::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FCRz85xNFz4qqD; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 19:37:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from barney@databus.com) Received: by pit.databus.com (Postfix, from userid 202) id 85274AA988; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 15:37:50 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=databus.com; s=20140217; t=1617478670; bh=JO2JyAzfNxHZiWxlaMMVG2Lk7H49EZNSGNBsqgUCqbI=; l=894; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=LvqJJc9QJrM/xP3G6g2RVJXRUv6D/WhoD5d22Lqto6zGVMkgAgrXiBL5sbtQXQuVB FM3O7XWS03/xLFSswfPabMfMZQXGE8shLErHwLUXGq8XcMiH1SCZ2zFHpfKuXU84N8 QR9pi57fQEFrYJQWQQymJ1mGue35zqpX1WYrxSND6ivkIDpUc/PtY5NcsSQSpya7b9 ct/p19/OBSOyoHhDhrkAc/GQ591ttmL2TvZzSHlN/2+HXK+7ezLabslR5HDM8yyiXA sj2uJDQ+VUwjPm7bkmkbUAokyXg1+ZGGuoF6sAGhDHsNJ5DKrDS5ptN0xh+fe6AtfH 7ITvx1Yxao7VQ== Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2021 15:37:50 -0400 From: Barney Wolff To: Karl Dunn Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Dell XPS 8940 SATA and NVMe disk controller not recognized Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FCRz85xNFz4qqD X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=databus.com header.s=20140217 header.b=LvqJJc9Q; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=databus.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of barney@databus.com designates 2001:470:1f06:80b::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=barney@databus.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[databus.com:s=20140217]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2001:470:1f06:80b::2:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[databus.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[databus.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2001:470:1f06:80b::2:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6939, ipnet:2001:470::/32, country:US]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions,freebsd-stable] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 18:38:37 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2021 19:37:59 -0000 On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 02:25:30PM -0500, Karl Dunn wrote: > I have new Dell XPS 8940 that came with Windows 10 Home installed. I have > created two partitions for FreeBSD, one on its NMVe 256GB SSD, and one on > its WD 1TB HD. > > For now, I have 12.2-RELEASE-p4 GENERIC on a USB memstick, so I can do > some limited testing. > > FreeBSD 12.2 does not recognize the SATA/RAID controller, which I assume > is resposible (in Win10) for accising both drives. > > The relevant pcoconf line for the controlleris: > > none7@pci0:0:23:0: class=0x010400 card=0x09c51028 chip=0x06d68086 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'Intel Corporation' > class = mass storage > subclass = RAID See if the BIOS offers a choice of configuring the controller as SATA instead of RAID. That worked for me on an Inspiron 1180. (It also made W10 unbootable - apparently each OS occupies its own universe.) From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 19:11:01 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5D55B107F for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:11:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound4s.ore.mailhop.org (outbound4s.ore.mailhop.org [54.185.97.28]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD3Kd15JWz3qgs for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:11:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1617563459; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=TavukzxlFdE98+DqytxY5yntu6De7J/SHINk7wqxBI65ihYe3wh+uT0xq4teB5NCbSViG5jtjJNAE oHCWauZZhsGU/+o9ccP+TBGy6FvuRGxR/Mxvw3ExC3ITOGVWlL92HVg2k7tzC72xw13IVEyhaG4UMT iyaIDGxIRfneB3K7WNztjyrcxQ+YoR4cnTMSaHKbrwAGlyQjOWkajSU6mdXzs4XUDtAncJu+ll3xof mjUjMdBc4gM4TDQqZCJw868CShJqehcxlFjLI/USD380eZtDAsoblHBIz13MUEmP1eRH+UyWlnpo1t 6mODA4aaMOTa1lyY9c7F+8sT0tlUKgQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:to:from:subject:message-id:dkim-signature:from; bh=lp+Wb878R9hlvPxbK0cUbeiVx1JOPu1di5PMuh2xDII=; b=bpsVegaScSS25aBZMSMgNTF6zfQ2KWYM4tVE9LEIktsui5c1YUFnvJFnyUyX7MjfT7aKLkpcZn118 rWRxcXahFTA6QwpeLBjbUHg72SXL0q8xQMn85ztwXXaJ7aeib26ElKfF+plCG543qyWgNksxFWk8w5 F87NXXg/QWE9a0fruDbNQ4xL81Bv12my0nx+JNRQgXkuOzVu+VuvTS0b+02XxApTpNfo4La03aGIzX NpkluOW+zLmoGqaT7Mus8HC5XkRJwdIA4SYiqxeLkPm8S0BcMboGBxYzsw100xMDWPUyG0D+tU3vSJ Hc+YW+RcMEoIRrBZACbsGC1/hBGm1Ow== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound4.ore.mailhop.org; spf=softfail smtp.mailfrom=freebsd.org smtp.remote-ip=67.177.211.60; dmarc=none header.from=freebsd.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:content-type:references:in-reply-to: date:to:from:subject:message-id:from; bh=lp+Wb878R9hlvPxbK0cUbeiVx1JOPu1di5PMuh2xDII=; b=jJxyzU6AWf6hVxLy8CYAs9WgPBuFJE7dFvi18lE2SP8l/N9ehbhbC/El6bmjmfLb99SNoNzy9ivFY jYOxYBwEGgggA2gikBfnYUmIFyeUjA0Q53Tj3JeGq3frm8IPznmkYg9Pu/VJ/b5zjQSNALM1miALC5 /xhEfZJuRaPlMFfXbjSX9x3PLrXl8L6J15epoGpeMRe6V8/s2AGKA2/+lnzOxVWN1vl2/3gjLKCG/8 OwqR4A5RWXisHDdnThk+iu02E4+Ki4SZY7IcugW+scyGhuS4IwG6Y+rs1ZrNa72RVIWSe0BBN9HZvQ Gpe5vIVMy0EcI8SxVIYSeMkFLNcpxzw== X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: 7c967934-9579-11eb-a601-89389772cfc7 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (c-67-177-211-60.hsd1.co.comcast.net [67.177.211.60]) by outbound4.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 7c967934-9579-11eb-a601-89389772cfc7; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:10:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 134JAvHD084191; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 13:10:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? From: Ian Lepore To: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 13:10:57 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ASCII" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.28.5 FreeBSD GNOME Team Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD3Kd15JWz3qgs X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:54.184.0.0/15, country:US]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:11:01 -0000 On Sat, 2021-04-03 at 16:39 -0400, Ed Maste wrote: > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it > dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > I would find the removal of ftpd to be very inconvenient unless there was a port/pkg to install it from. If there is a port, it would only be useful if I could set PREFIX=/usr when building/installing it, so that its behavior when installed as a port/pkg would be identical to how it was when it was part of base (in terms of where its config files are located). -- Ian From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 18:34:32 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91D55AFC1A for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 18:34:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike.lempriere@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com (mail-ua1-x935.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD2WW6n1cz3nRX for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 18:34:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike.lempriere@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id g5so2971330uan.8 for ; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 11:34:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=huRuSuhsH+siR4MSHkfbBE/k+ps1b0WGnjNGagsqCbI=; b=YAQ6E64Zj5qSAG/ypkpEjpxvbfmt7MUcLhW8pkYp2JvmbjvwikkEGSt0QKAXLmB7Q8 JIH3cVxS49JkPYXNig+eTSWeSQ9UIgBhWEudVQI5KIonpeiDuXg+1VIm1pncJcRYL5+5 kNQecIMhRooStl7HqIlV4Sm1pVgM/1nZZwlT+jhVky7HokIOMxNwQUYL0Lk5paUMYjmF /WyL1W05C010hOszcFKJ0yd43clTRAdBNiY9X3l9q40/OqYMI3QZhX43mEkTQzqogDp0 r0q8RwkIcidKLRAvqNa8ka8a+3gmTRmeAaMSqHh++1Fe/JjXKvqcubtRsXz0nsBYDpGs ncTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=huRuSuhsH+siR4MSHkfbBE/k+ps1b0WGnjNGagsqCbI=; b=dfyMJBZlqJ5PuLp9IDIo4quVcsWP1tkR0l92IjevkjypYl20je37Cq4ihZ1rTNlfx6 jva4jEuwHWukWvFazUUCCvJkp40ZKBZOIF5ateFg7h3AOyX/Xnyh75n7HorzMh32Kwya aO3Yt8vP6gFQW5QMLyxdcFO4dJVYG9Aau+kMDaWd6GwTZQzEdmRMyDeKPtCSzkADjImr APILtPdAo5fi4P0mWICFMswg+Zz90f4s/fkGm7cOrdQuYGwc9o7G78BG8swgl9mGsj4+ yt8zf5CuUNk3PdRxEp5h4lN3rfRFPjTIZvLQJI5mDhbpyHz2vTydPkH8ggWQo+XhpGT1 PfNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530krKQrUJrJDtqy1iyaafnaWD+VdCUcPxTcvFU/JisA4Ao19Pgv Z0m61Ob6xXId1jnX6mAuaPnfIoIT097lF6TMVPVU3kS4pm8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw6mq54ullhNP2zprQYybM2Wys3g+AjsKh5SO6clO/yNzEjoFeQ5ykZoTpWdeqHU2lj47w7y3haUoTXzmOcsPU= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:6306:: with SMTP id a6mr3895104uap.2.1617561270547; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mike Lempriere Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 11:34:19 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Cc: freebsd-stable stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD2WW6n1cz3nRX X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=YAQ6E64Z; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mikelempriere@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::935 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mikelempriere@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.05 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MISSING_TO(2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.05)[-0.049]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::935:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::935:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::935:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:51:59 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 18:34:33 -0000 I'm actually in shock that you would propose such a thing! Many wysiwyg web builders still use ftp as their publishing mechanism. I'd bet that most freebsd servers out there have ftpd enabled, but of course that's just my opinion. I really wish it would do secure ftp, but that's another discussion... My vote is don't remove it from base. On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 1:40 PM Ed Maste wrote: > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Mike Lempriere, Perennial Vintners 206-780-2146 Vintners.net/cell/txt 206-200-5902 From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 18:57:56 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A810F5B0351; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 18:57:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD32W6d02z3pWp; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 18:57:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [IPv6:2607:fb90:a36a:bb14:dd79:371c:cd14:578b] (unknown [172.58.140.242]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B16BB4E672; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 13:51:36 -0500 (CDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: Dell XPS 8940 SATA and NVMe disk controller not recognized From: Valeri Galtsev In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 13:51:34 -0500 Cc: Karl Dunn , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <77FF8CE7-C656-43E0-809D-60BEFB3A0C60@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: To: Barney Wolff X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD32W6d02z3pWp X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.18 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.140.242:received]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[128.135.20.70:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[172.58.140.242:received]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.86)[-0.863]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.44)[0.437]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[128.135.20.70:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions,freebsd-stable]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:54:00 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 18:57:56 -0000 > On Apr 3, 2021, at 2:37 PM, Barney Wolff wrote: >=20 > On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 02:25:30PM -0500, Karl Dunn wrote: >> I have new Dell XPS 8940 that came with Windows 10 Home installed. I = have=20 >> created two partitions for FreeBSD, one on its NMVe 256GB SSD, and = one on=20 >> its WD 1TB HD. >>=20 >> For now, I have 12.2-RELEASE-p4 GENERIC on a USB memstick, so I can = do=20 >> some limited testing. >>=20 >> FreeBSD 12.2 does not recognize the SATA/RAID controller, which I = assume=20 >> is resposible (in Win10) for accising both drives. >>=20 >> The relevant pcoconf line for the controlleris: >>=20 >> none7@pci0:0:23:0: class=3D0x010400 card=3D0x09c51028 = chip=3D0x06d68086 rev=3D0x00 hdr=3D0x00 >> vendor =3D 'Intel Corporation' >> class =3D mass storage >> subclass =3D RAID >=20 > See if the BIOS offers a choice of configuring the controller as SATA = instead of RAID. That worked for me on an Inspiron 1180. (It also made = W10 unbootable - apparently each OS occupies its own universe.) That is what I do on laptops that come with Intel SATA chip configured = for [fake] RAID =E2=80=9Coperation": I switch in BIOS/UEFI away from = RAID to AHSI or IDE. But before doing that if you still want installed = MS Windows to boot after switch, do this: = https://www.mysysadmintips.com/windows/clients/771-change-sata-operation-m= ode-from-raid-to-ahci-without-re-installing-windows Valeri > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 20:50:26 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4523B5B4498; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 20:50:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-f177.google.com (mail-oi1-f177.google.com [209.85.167.177]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD5XK0MRTz4Rf3; 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Sun, 04 Apr 2021 13:50:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210403153446.GL92054@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20210403153446.GL92054@FreeBSD.org> From: Alan Somers Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 14:50:12 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD 13.0-RC5 Now Available To: FreeBSD Release Engineering Team Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD , freebsd-snapshots@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD5XK0MRTz4Rf3 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of asomers@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=asomers@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[asomers]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.167.177:from]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.167.177:from:127.0.2.255]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.988]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.167.177:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.167.177:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current,freebsd-stable,freebsd-snapshots]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 20:50:26 -0000 On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 9:34 AM Glen Barber wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > The fifth RC build of the 13.0-RELEASE release cycle is now available. > > Installation images are available for: > > o 13.0-RC5 amd64 GENERIC > o 13.0-RC5 i386 GENERIC > o 13.0-RC5 powerpc GENERIC > o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64 GENERIC64 > o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64le GENERIC64LE > o 13.0-RC5 powerpcspe MPC85XXSPE > o 13.0-RC5 armv6 RPI-B > o 13.0-RC5 armv7 GENERICSD > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 GENERIC > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 RPI > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64 > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64-LTS > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINEBOOK > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCK64 > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCKPRO64 > o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERIC > o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERICSD > > Note regarding arm SD card images: For convenience for those without > console access to the system, a freebsd user with a password of > freebsd is available by default for ssh(1) access. Additionally, > the root user password is set to root. It is strongly recommended > to change the password for both users after gaining access to the > system. > > Installer images and memory stick images are available here: > > https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/ISO-IMAGES/13.0/ > > The image checksums follow at the end of this e-mail. > > If you notice problems you can report them through the Bugzilla PR > system or on the -stable mailing list. > > If you would like to use Git to do a source based update of an existing > system, use the "releng/13.0" branch. > > A summary of changes since 13.0-RC4 includes: > > o COMPAT_FREEBSD32 fill/set dbregs/fpregs has been implemented for > aarch64. > > o Miscellaneous DTrace updates. > > o An issue that could potentially affect some services to properly > restart, notably Nginx, has been addressed. > > o Miscellaneous networking fixes. > > A list of changes since 12.2-RELEASE is available in the releng/13.0 > release notes: > > https://www.freebsd.org/releases/13.0R/relnotes.html > > Please note, the release notes page is not yet complete, and will be > updated on an ongoing basis as the 13.0-RELEASE cycle progresses. > > === Virtual Machine Disk Images === > > VM disk images are available for the amd64, i386, and aarch64 > architectures. Disk images may be downloaded from the following URL > (or any of the FreeBSD download mirrors): > > https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/VM-IMAGES/13.0-RC5/ > > The partition layout is: > > ~ 16 kB - freebsd-boot GPT partition type (bootfs GPT label) > ~ 1 GB - freebsd-swap GPT partition type (swapfs GPT label) > ~ 20 GB - freebsd-ufs GPT partition type (rootfs GPT label) > > The disk images are available in QCOW2, VHD, VMDK, and raw disk image > formats. The image download size is approximately 135 MB and 165 MB > respectively (amd64/i386), decompressing to a 21 GB sparse image. > > Note regarding arm64/aarch64 virtual machine images: a modified QEMU EFI > loader file is needed for qemu-system-aarch64 to be able to boot the > virtual machine images. See this page for more information: > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm64/QEMU > > To boot the VM image, run: > > % qemu-system-aarch64 -m 4096M -cpu cortex-a57 -M virt \ > -bios QEMU_EFI.fd -serial telnet::4444,server -nographic \ > -drive if=none,file=VMDISK,id=hd0 \ > -device virtio-blk-device,drive=hd0 \ > -device virtio-net-device,netdev=net0 \ > -netdev user,id=net0 > > Be sure to replace "VMDISK" with the path to the virtual machine image. > > BASIC-CI images can be found at: > > https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/CI-IMAGES/13.0-RC5/ > > === Amazon EC2 AMI Images === > > FreeBSD/amd64 EC2 AMIs are available in the following regions: > > af-south-1 region: ami-0fe76e3a8c6a8d108 > eu-north-1 region: ami-0fe9d5e3fd7bd2972 > ap-south-1 region: ami-0090069af2f905566 > eu-west-3 region: ami-042ea753bff8d6a9d > eu-west-2 region: ami-08e0358d71a41ce97 > eu-south-1 region: ami-0a1cb76bf83c3c49c > eu-west-1 region: ami-0559fa7d3edc6e607 > ap-northeast-3 region: ami-04492324222abcb1b > ap-northeast-2 region: ami-0e851ff1f260888fd > me-south-1 region: ami-087ab54ec6e4d0cbb > ap-northeast-1 region: ami-0796973b853fba5e0 > sa-east-1 region: ami-03f738fc556689a14 > ca-central-1 region: ami-05f22cba7be241fbe > ap-east-1 region: ami-07ac68b5cc29039bc > ap-southeast-1 region: ami-04a8c807e53f07e72 > ap-southeast-2 region: ami-097dc8195cad3a688 > eu-central-1 region: ami-013f760d364d2d6a7 > us-east-1 region: ami-0e5adeb6a86cb63c4 > us-east-2 region: ami-04aac5053216613b1 > us-west-1 region: ami-07a9e536124bc5cd3 > us-west-2 region: ami-0d590e9beb5038bd0 > > FreeBSD/aarch64 EC2 AMIs are available in the following regions: > > af-south-1 region: ami-085df8d192daddc93 > eu-north-1 region: ami-035b8e0f104183bde > ap-south-1 region: ami-0224f547eb20ded51 > eu-west-3 region: ami-092ad93b82e3a558a > eu-west-2 region: ami-0567fa1f5daa6c238 > eu-south-1 region: ami-00615cebecc52f525 > eu-west-1 region: ami-0e2950449c94e05c8 > ap-northeast-3 region: ami-03b7571b4a4af049e > ap-northeast-2 region: ami-0b570af0ee358ee72 > me-south-1 region: ami-0c57b43738fd4004b > ap-northeast-1 region: ami-0e17a574439ffb174 > sa-east-1 region: ami-0201af4c62a23a60f > ca-central-1 region: ami-0eae8aba238f15999 > ap-east-1 region: ami-005e7c3d7872ae536 > ap-southeast-1 region: ami-0969bc5323ee517d9 > ap-southeast-2 region: ami-07072603fa5909c39 > eu-central-1 region: ami-0d7d0c153cecb0707 > us-east-1 region: ami-0711d615450d8075e > us-east-2 region: ami-09c56d3ad7a9e74c7 > us-west-1 region: ami-0fde730ebfb68aa96 > us-west-2 region: ami-027243f32c4f86017 > > === Vagrant Images === > > FreeBSD/amd64 images are available on the Hashicorp Atlas site, and can > be installed by running: > > % vagrant init freebsd/FreeBSD-13.0-RC5 > % vagrant up > > === Upgrading === > > The freebsd-update(8) utility supports binary upgrades of amd64, i386 > and aarch64 systems running earlier FreeBSD releases. Systems running > earlier FreeBSD releases can upgrade as follows: > > # freebsd-update upgrade -r 13.0-RC5 > > During this process, freebsd-update(8) may ask the user to help by > merging some configuration files or by confirming that the automatically > performed merging was done correctly. > > # freebsd-update install > > The system must be rebooted with the newly installed kernel before > continuing. > > # shutdown -r now > > After rebooting, freebsd-update needs to be run again to install the new > userland components: > > # freebsd-update install > > It is recommended to rebuild and install all applications if possible, > especially if upgrading from an earlier FreeBSD release, for example, > FreeBSD 11.x. Alternatively, the user can install misc/compat11x and > other compatibility libraries, afterwards the system must be rebooted > into the new userland: > > # shutdown -r now > > Finally, after rebooting, freebsd-update needs to be run again to remove > stale files: > > # freebsd-update install > > == ISO CHECKSUMS == > > o 13.0-RC5 amd64 GENERIC: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso) = > dfffeadbb060d71545a4702c6b37c6b2d9d28396919298cdfeb4f17ab916edbb8b607c904e9ae016a27cabb5a026d5cdc6631de3fd2f7deed9eb36c2b6351276 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 72cb3f5269eee672107ccda802612be792fc3d7dfebfb2266a1b2cc9fb6088e3c141fce8c847a573a4e2994f5cc360547d39223b5db23e9367580fb003c74b93 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso) = > 07a934d9492e93f104637268e6e323527b71b3e4dec71b072e5324838d8b019ef0ec621654f7dcb363f75c8924ca11d6b100da545cf3f0789ad777c95712609e > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso.xz) = > f5f82be805bc3bdf4b967ec211bd474fb2b3710dd4e4c33ce1f31626498baf660694d792dc2ecab5108315b093bdbb9fd983abf515f21ac6027bf33b9b9de000 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso) = > c0ecbc8dbcced7e37cb32cefa944da5117bcb92eaec2d19ae9198520542b88f45c8d5d0b4a2f808cbedf44748d2e0e5ba144d771f13766aa2d135048b7bbd9db > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > f92f0fdecd4d4b99df7dacd9d27b212b771b347c7ee23acf37bf776d25bb5049776e61e8429e7fc8b63f00efe23b9b2ac9b0e8b5ccc218c8abe1b1522e76b2ac > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img) = > 26147b65e479dac6ecb18b2205b952bbd8b39ff6cbaae454a8f479b5ef6f6daaa6e3d75402390e9acdaf1f5219cb0b7623378a4545c285c426ab5296c1178686 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img.xz) = > 4662821f6e70bbbeaffc3d4fabf6311e7556abdc3e48c3926e3e1f72b305bc20044cca3c811c9e4202e897037a300f81fd6407fc2870bd24374f7269de3e9704 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img) = > 623d5bbe81ef67585426107ee5caaa360e9a435f0a5fb43bfd5ddb303dcb1c2a7b76b42d167ccebcf8908fba4851694b7e55c8821eb69f9477ce5e6157108d44 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 0e225b2116caaa719efd71edf33d84f83ffb742b930d0c9ed4998627d15033a30f9c2ff4549bbd6276ad0867c6f3b3934e95e4520207858c82e02e68d35e980f > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso) = > 843f3a70f5229af107a18e2a03c6809dd71d325722dc8bab9e018c41078ea5a4 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 561346c315e5831fd236871d9ef8ed5cf0c76a1d5916fc850f5e4d9dd2450007 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso) = > 785ea0b42266419d15d81225e12cdad480713195af9bef833384636c9749a682 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso.xz) = > ffbffa7dd7e79f841c656f0d84880a9cb9fbbc724b35cfecb9759f854548cbb0 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso) = > c94a787eca63e27588315a8971c74597af9a7ae237e544d753f963c035cd416d > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 679d4f47465cd5aee1eea4f0152d9dc7f243a72d43b1d9448e656b1e756ae46e > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img) = > 563773ac3b911330858b52a9b86ef74e4cd9dd359c57eda9706470c614ee2929 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img.xz) = > 39af8d7ee9ee2d8f3e31905345efdc944182f599880148f40556faf06a2b34c7 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img) = > da970de874f4ee9584087bec8577f92de8c02d10e77e910b6ff15f4e682f9c4b > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 2133ce0f8a80fb5b8259fe9f253bf53c56543b6902388ac762768b7fe0548cff > > > o 13.0-RC5 i386 GENERIC: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso) = > 8ad9035f35ae9cb3d6e832aebb14bfba0d41052fe6fabc220b706ff1239990c4c018163467a9472f9b03b5730c9b000c11ce1bd2779c5347bd4238625225c017 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 5a6d4ca2ce12fd3bec6e967f9c9c2ca78064cb28881418ea7eec9e52627e16735984caa6a1281fe86823315d53ce86d89ac9191144c1bf63b3bb040dad5ed26e > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso) = > 4c296a1e2befb7a97b654eff0a7dd3d546cb98c1dcfc656256a7249bd0c152f76e1ec54d2320cda1f80e89e1d6810a7d761faec26b258e54fcb8be3480b8c556 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso.xz) = > 9ee852910024ec071455a3ebedd5445cc4618d01e94c9ac5db1ff25db0c50f630a4711648887149ccbef5c61dc223fa28c92eb1d7e08ff68bd461b0a6d6eab81 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso) = > f317a2b4e1107ef098f466d3ed32718656acf918aa77983d491ccf1491e9ce81520d365f9e4dfca5da69ec7d40b7f75c5d2a8b34b2e91d9da96245cda5281f76 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso.xz) = > b8ca2be1830592867b9195c1f217755966168ce0ebdd1e5ff7df582ca38fc0c2d07afe54c0c52c5c287e49273e7a1e5f6716e79a45be6c79575c3317122613ce > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img) = > 3ff922ad3978b3eb014df250089e02fd4b05e85adbcaed64db3408f7376cf5b72d04300f72bd2626ee0c35902868898a332a1de05f902861299316cfd47a1613 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img.xz) = > e41d85b245d7e3e20f06bc089f1dba8b806fdef7e498e2649e0b1165c3209a073a35cd67c0272bfffe2a5678107d4464fa6aa2a56c482908f0ca0d6632aafcb6 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img) = > eb7834cab28fffc04e38fd65f136a3918aa6cca43df2121dc5f477863ed1096d65dccc88d6b9860c24d1ea8449d1dfb96758162749b172e669c620eff2bd1645 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > d9ae34312fdb0d19bdeae1cef285ea202ec59a616dba67c79879eb52eb1d148439692e32fe5f6a67636c891cca857761306732363bc53977818664f3711d66fb > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso) = > 79f35eabd8f510a44413da532d900613c3b23ed79f1e98a8a2ecc7cacf2abe35 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso.xz) = > c3f5ec7847cec1760d6aa0413b324443e7e3a843c9f83219775c24f5ab8c1894 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso) = > e16077941d9e811026d7c10dbe1be78ef0c4973cf02bcec610ef5bf61e5a81a3 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso.xz) = > b3d360824504419a416c0ebc7bc28c63ea6c8722736a90603891b31b3d7e3089 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso) = > 6f8d645310ffc0e0e5a3e6d08a651d71d4364dc3568eb56c64103b1e5378e3a6 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 74ea5c4a1390506d308bd64e99889abb456ce8ea97bee2cf6649a6eeef4dbc89 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img) = > 5dd60eab6d6b4fe7e4cf69693e759befaa49f2c3fa4ded328c40bf232ab424de > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img.xz) = > b372c1c77ffe8b64b6491970e5f2582de9bec4937f96e12882bd878d265cf64d > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img) = > d0efe3f4a44859417126b75ee7325d0488527404f3b4157ccf4de0664f1f9a07 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > fdaab5a8fd3a4fba03b300e448164d55173986015473f350200c05efe1a852d8 > > > o 13.0-RC5 powerpc GENERIC: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso) = > a32dba6b13f5dc3c8602b3e5ef8754e8cc743b2be8cbf5e3858fcac36c14eb6458acd15ed8864957ca23def9fff67d8566985aa19444a7d232ae4762a375b2a0 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso.xz) = > b15e8e9eb63c3cbc7be457e75f07ebe1a6d1a7ef2c5fd491dbb4ba70ab7c70c089fae8ec23040f98f3a20486ec4f121ede4877aeabb762ca0d6e84a2b9590dc7 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso) = > 085db6d63a4559d8e6ff6893afa3852b7535a398660463abbe1b57b6935e0b23f9766f09825fea4c4a42b4073f57451cdf418b1fb4fcc41d7a8fafac1951d801 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso.xz) = > 2ac711b82106a311b1bd0317643c4c3924de644c03d7906eb3eae388e4181ba9c7f6c8ef8f8a470e831614e54fe076c26a7a4c67c58907e95f328f2307e00325 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso) = > e26f5434ae54b9cd9afc64ede8cffc605c90cecd6c07ce2dafde0e34102caa0bf94b8a7ce77ee2498e2fdcf2652c4bf6c25c2ae76d0b37fe24469de9b0527ea5 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso.xz) = > afeec86faf153822b750e642184bfdff544fb59207ad70e2208ce6a30e8b74bebba608d326d4a2bceb474e870534783c0194fbd0b94d5969bc37298a250ab1c8 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img) = > 37a82c1febc07e7b9bfe396521e786ab0f3172f6f5ad23ee10b7351f9a9d83c946c3ced5f4c0e888ef241e105b95606b0e7410e27d40ea984d27f1af737ec37a > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img.xz) = > 31c9364d96803ff9f1c57a216e110a7fd5d303e17324f7b1f2bacfdb36afcaf5e7487a6829f87b044233ec42e64b7ccdf2f5e32ae4bf98f543bab24e5300af2e > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img) = > cb3fff298be469d973d511fb1f93708071c8ff5962758daae0f994f66b36afad6dda2cfd6ae1ce98a616d11b108c61855adbfd493aec05f8091d8a56a3261066 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 2a47aa9151d1c550e9fe8d6f9c04eaa893ab922a0f9900581a25e38448f2e657f5917ba2b5992a7fe370d3eb72d744eb94e05c974859ee92501a6622af2b6489 > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso) = > 2827b49ca6c59f0008bc3601c82fbc102fda1b570ab36a533580b2bfea88f34f > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 7b5aa329441b970269c52622d2e22dc6822ef16c1d459d132a48c41a09503e19 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso) = > 8eaa08b5f578ffdeeb8cbd4e7ac14e7b8398d27db742ed5a0bb51e4a499fb37e > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso.xz) = > 08dadbb25838b533e995627614e7290be3ac42944ed63fe8545d7920a3f82b72 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso) = > 142e79355ba203f11df43accfc27a4b6d22ccf7745e207e6909ac4290262c4db > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 10fec72bb315db41daad144a22afdea30caa4155759f460985522886fb9096d1 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img) = > b44acedab085967df85c836dfe8fa41d0dde8da94d2268f909436c5ab25de549 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img.xz) = > d69e8e2dff07fc98cb3904d937cfbb4c5bf459dc115ae8a20da248ca83c6590e > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img) = > 250f066f9d8f37624faf27c9098757620c914ae556c4f265c8e20f4d035270ea > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 333e7fab257c09aa04934e10e05da2c32f9fefded9bd0b351e6d2ba6b1be4442 > > > o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64 GENERIC64: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso) = > c07ce0d53a1fcae04e9d08b4fc01d53cdf355a6788f4f6f655425b8ccfbd6b1913ab74f33b0da11650b1175358ef7d8ba205a8a24069108ff33b2fdf6204ddcd > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > bbbbbfde492f5d93a998d2f67fdf9492ac2ca5fa52914c9c1dc2f3ab6a00f2b4ed7952a18458b7da0edf9d9c685f36c35816de28bf855c4d918700ccff63368c > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso) = > 37d400eb0265b32d811d047094c92f902f9d2c5e75fc9b696a66689b251a4a768d4b486ef2793333efe120e48e13392c056f65676b2c6d5ad04310310bd9de1b > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso.xz) = > 6db09309e2345923a6f25592d45912eef91c43d051e17bc81d40872790d79aadb79770a8539648cfa2b199286189ce3fb7e29be361191ccb51f5ead5334ddf12 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso) = > 10b7841c14945e8f0de4a13b839aed9f48508ef2bf6e3dd48659fbb50df711141d2ffa7a3a4aa80c70fa077af6b65494229e83b2feb400a011fe3904fd901c18 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 8ffb496e3de9c58c50d098b9eadd1bb7dfc3b08723ebae73f705804defe39a484282e8c4e314925056fc4da4ee4f1ac86e950fb30e6a27467e2e20a60971eca6 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img) = > 591306f217a7962a901d145c810f8814936568e043c91322dd94e99efa093f002a6bef1515954f5f1803b4ac8686c530d857de707661aa24074995932fce8bed > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img.xz) = > 01c0b4965ac8b0e9a913c38e340c06f929035bb8b86c08fcaea93ca9ad34bc76c39a6ca31a48a6d92aa96d8b63ae6c9deef631de756c71fde8d5d7bb09a8f4a7 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img) = > 13907a793588393fea23f3b99890f7342ccfa8d558c1bb67c6607d4cda5998abe336ff786bf6153520e73e9036ce27a7af5c43c9d74d25990ab84bd153841a04 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 1b1b7aaedec61f7e1fd6e29177ef9116a9a06f9c1ed75d9bf01e4a9284dca80993bc0882d3f23c0d1b94bbd562aa1b6dc36df391c6dd6293ab0586ef67c6b2b7 > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso) = > 25c55622b76bebbe8f0fe2f8a4bdb3e3574e8ebe6e51a0ca96cbe6e8ce603858 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > c811d69f85b2a3ac734534a3006377d39db375a28926738d6b0ae216b22e14f9 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso) = > 8473b711542841cbe8426c4c4738c1dd621b48c53437ac7fe2e6ec4e71b65ae6 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso.xz) = > 669e6383bcc7df3ed3dc747aecdff85a8db9e228b194cfadd6333e2b202d7748 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso) = > 6f3212a22f1d5ae6636bdf78b11f0babc13072206b72a79e7ab774336b09325e > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 99ac5ffb12358d96bafbe2e96481957ae683c025edda1a2eeb67c5e15ba27f32 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img) = > e517c774949f162a81cf4f351e8be76ff63887c71b56c97dff1ef304181a3642 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img.xz) = > ee773a8aaf21a7f77d471b4c92d59f82587cd2ef939dab6cdff0cf22e1ffb270 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img) = > 11eaad33b936480e58ffeaa73a8df233462343380a05472bc1187005ec2a2763 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 362075a568f7e64ef336c35b681f3870a369476997e4c4b8e2494ecca9e7a793 > > > o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64le GENERIC64LE: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso) = > eecab860c44d1251a91096bea60eacbe2697cc7dc48e793f3848f5cdfcda0ef1f23dd3fe65c3abea0f03f2e2334e933156da8ed9433607f53255a1bdc7bed09d > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 90eebc957a30a857cdabaeef9f27c84e58874d1ea367d0ef3ae8eb30547e3080105de1a82b965a8205390ff75955f1fd82fced1404a08218f41b1e75d25f2c3a > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso) = > 8bf4cf5f5192c44a764bc99da913393db47fe9aff7c87e4c76800215e73e137f9793859240ea3db0e8b14b1dd4aaa7f4c133516eca94b15fae1197299d2b5382 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso.xz) = > 03423138f90dbe4b42a2b7a1f7ff2c22a00a3d764d1d3853fe609006759934a671567a1d79879a07f9a1f534273003c0ff2e7c8580d5f80a36722c536ce34d5e > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso) = > 5da23394beb3b78ccd67bbca02db44f527b2963913a233c86e4d2c46fc99d18a2756c5c88826019928dab8e1a4708d51182e47f85f1ceea72d26a7df88cba5be > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso.xz) = > f6e630015f40a3e02b2202c666a0304507ec260bc06c8910c1ed508a65dbf76500188382e0f7f5eadc205f66ff3cda1e48f0bafcbfcf5b131be5619e0eaedce8 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img) = > cc490e6bd2519100b1efe865e44f5a355149d5b4b296e7da3057d843746b8703ca97fc6dec192876ef9c050a12d72c931d8be62ce8669384ea2b4e5efdf76847 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img.xz) = > c5c541040fc48864a70ada1a45d2c70dd5c12289f2cc0d65b94e2e9aaebcf7a644d1490c67d71bf4fc3533cc9932c262e309683b27c02a7708f4a6b812ccd372 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img) = > db4d50b2658cb3d1c20ac3eb18c6ad8741a6ee7433253077affd47102fecaf2ef5a9f78cf215ea6ed135891e99142d458f546bc524bd6fa6baf59241d9617497 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 3f0578f1c776197341013b5a587ad0d7093053c223fc3a6e3774350601feb03dd464d55cbac3d8262c90ed46e333ab04878cda88cfda340168ec9ed92731f78e > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso) = > 44949a89dd868f59fb83be8c6eb0dfee0239b7653237ec3b986bc3a5ad2aa84f > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 4d934143d93cc14a64387afc16aed1b3c7e61302063e97c92f905317ec8525dd > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso) = > 1afda9365d4ef07d363cab2eaff9af0b1f79fef97954b887b33240d50438caab > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso.xz) = > 55e964968892a4b8ba86fd43be8e1ef215dea1fc45ec338f33051bd0fe9a434b > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso) = > 18e1091cb31c4db288a58268c23554449e2c67cac830d1e6247e6800a83e1c17 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso.xz) = > c67976d9a3b963c1f7912ed0734cdde8db5635d4f313f01e13c548afc012b588 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img) = > 6bb73a406466f51e68f1e69f8b2539cae5fc73fe4df880a4b9b7768954d6d3c6 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img.xz) = > b4bd43ccfd1f6be7c92fcddbfa026e034150bdbefe3ec5d0b5cc1c0645b343ed > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img) = > 8af515276bd2d4931d42ce0fea7b51686ada127cc1d36ae0a2d30b79486d2593 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > e6cfb3188bdb6db2bb6d72e855508687c4773f139e5171a0ab68f328d95d62f0 > > > o 13.0-RC5 powerpcspe MPC85XXSPE: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso) = > 8fdffa39a22c90c15c57db0543597b3f3f914da7523280e97896c2bdb49af7f51b053c127c5ea7ca5735a0ced9b35ad93b7239dcb98e7e318aebb4201ec34bdd > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso.xz) = > d66435f8fa24f63bd42781de25983f91907abac22b5399b50b6a62d97354acd1afbd31789fdcb0bd1868ff3556e1728bb25bcb7471d5890abcaf2f0c4e471534 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso) = > d3b3454688850a3441886d0bf2930d2acb7275ac3e0aa7b4bfe9c4b6777fe951cb2a217aa38f21d40880a72f73e15f97abbd5c7ec779c7c23a681eb5ed675a12 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso.xz) = > d9f0f90b1c380a295ddf88ee1c57a1360c6ebf6706a21ba33175f5fff0e0e5099e47c270978d39ed06d74abc05982ee41a5c9d07f8185b316e8283a6ac9565ab > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso) = > d407bf459140a991e16f6cedeff06477e01cb85fd1275eac936f9937cd6fdf5ca684d2c1a9cc6afea85bb53426207aeaf98c40a3642d10afed9093fea5eebfff > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 31797f1accf117fee26a4213a9c5395f1d0adf4e591e9a089b706d2c92a80c796333e63ca53a20b86c1061f63433cabe3b1032be45a9c8267bd86fca231885da > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img) = > 0d519eaf0fc676fa174ac41678a48aaae9581da6dd8ef4521019e5d820c25efa29747b633da8c3ce661666957a880a74cf861589951e568a188ed6178e57c258 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img.xz) = > 03cc0fd9983656a77063380f7c743a939ec80d51575a7e159400783b19f6241ed82ee78bfb3ac35a0c046d6a72a42e2c6ac73676e59f9f739097ea8e8e844747 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img) = > 099801cd1e25e9142234cf77773d62a258a93ee8dafcf3ea3d6a433a968210eb70b164eb8d2396efe8748e700a999390d35c5933b7818f3f694a7d2d849afd4b > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 42b293138765d7548fdef58ff018ebd71d7eab99e4db53d4fb2830e7e1122395ee596f785b03667d6d7bd3e3bf23847584f3c8016ac787bd53d620b24aa7085f > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso) = > 3f274fce0d33e110200ac2418e884502a701397dbebaa73b2544622d443153b2 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 62e85b4c51969a74d83e903be32cad9ec946993291def036d6d0b8970cbdfd0c > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso) = > 134bcedfecc7d1165a776f8ac3e9165984cd6ffe21816d4fbe6ea67ebf98de12 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso.xz) = > da3ee317d806b053aecad3b2692accb370fb79fa45360efdb0d9f27adfd2b3cd > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso) = > d3d4f33db8c2627f73a4765c1806de46498ea80b387ed2b96fc767eb2cda9729 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso.xz) = > ba3af7676d6f8c431a7fa1012bb599cc19e9e3770d18e01293c38c3175d3007a > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img) = > 3d8ad5969d65321025d90896289dd1dec6695ae1b413e3102eb49d4506439ae1 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img.xz) = > b51a273ace661c9775a43785374e20d4dbc0282b0aeb748a02eeae69d6235523 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img) = > 1e6ef9b8a740eac73cb8d7578277c7bc580f3afdc51d444a74c00aeb5e03f530 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > a4fdfddc01b4fe4f5a112552acd2291f13c0b31ca3cb548e3abf58c0ba89a2c6 > > > o 13.0-RC5 armv6 RPI-B: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv6-RPI-B.img.xz) = > d592a0e2be89218c9443b39037982a562dbca4bb238739e0999e1c4450eee5dc282f9e76fab911f958881fb0cd7f2b25e3e3cacdcd8fe169aebab9c35b72811b > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv6-RPI-B.img.xz) = > 7830ec0146f72000438251e27136a836dc9f349798a5c5f35529f2121b5f50ad > > > o 13.0-RC5 armv7 GENERICSD: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv7-GENERICSD.img.xz) = > 6e084b9721a287fdbba6d7c94c957d65150f46069797801f8e19bf2fb0a59984ea58c4b8d6ec2dd16207a3ccde201da23804bf5931e236c4672d748c41a2b45a > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv7-GENERICSD.img.xz) = > 0c4a705a32914fbc279ee7bd0d156c4fd90a37bbc6f492b16e153a516611cc4c > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 GENERIC: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso) = > f643bf631773775ab604af7c5c19880d4cf0b9462087d62fb55afe95155fd94e35d56f2d661f845c18826d70197fc7a8a4822220bd4d1a3a59e3a76d7bfe3f17 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > a1dfd6a632cb795027719ac2e3b6f8aff42c7c980e07eb63cf6c3b293e16f320dfb692987ec93b93ede936097c42c2efde0d5cbbe780a359f47ad4c5a171ebd4 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso) = > 1d4c9236312520dc60daba71bfb1655709397c8801afa209aa0a28f05395a84e46ef2b672195a8faff44ea938d2ec0024c7ce175ef421f407ba3a5d6c2808ff0 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso.xz) = > 14845d0684b24743e97adb5c09a7c64207e98f22d277a0338572de3e1f634549956f2fea9e06ef46d1a461683b6e27cf7c9db8a24dda28fa837e59f7dd477d3a > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso) = > 3c9d89502fe5b8d98365179c0880049ba377cbd3fe814dee8f6ab469d181c527cda4884404830083d0ce452daf70b2e727e5f4b47358fc9e8dc237c712f301a3 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > fbcb5b34455bce5008112d6b585a694826c2a500447635296073ad20c4e61e109dae274f2de2450a4e657259321325142b60f53cac421992f0e22b8906373667 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img) = > dd5b011cf04e6d2fbaedcc21fb5740c5e3328e6af392c4a62b88c7fb860d96e1650b5c3c8859ee958af02f307690db18fc96b30f00d6174610e2e0f692eda270 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img.xz) = > 991dbaa2010289bd83b038d06c961ef7ac0f277575a21b72b02a8af957ab286b72a144ac3978962ea1432fdae261ad08b9497218934641fa3bcab5e4c0e712e6 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img) = > f3525a3001a5b0a8fab02d0924ec0507fb337dd9cc8cc8ec43476621519ace704dba222e86562a0496de532a8184b9ad8dc07097d75f7b7b25fc0656189cca2d > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 5aede68f37bf75753a7bcf97b90fde5336a8d8604c4d90ff3cd14a5702d8e5d4e8c4bc14a249d929b8650836fbe9c4a8fccfd0151a49c2c1d30ac9403ab5ccc6 > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso) = > 4f8d57730fe5cdaaa61f426013f883ee56711da983123fabdf6b27d886c94d85 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 3d7501df1d55c4418587ecee6465d7f78ebdb1cdb2e183ae1352eaa7180d925a > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso) = > 8d3178e7158e0e3f98834aafefd305ffe8a9db35fbc943d501b0b75e238c3048 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso.xz) = > 4781b34dd623cacaf279e2723527d6b8429ed170f3d3194c390f547be09f5784 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso) = > 164a0f647d8af294843cddf1847ffc84326aa827b9fac5e88bc5367c3ece0b95 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > a76603fbd0c57cd0ea11e5d15f88b7040f676ba9e0b1f9e46af6e75ded6b6d09 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img) = > 66a50d93648040dfec578b4b404b0a66a53511c9cd8d633e41cd88d197dcf959 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img.xz) = > 1673f1f89c87cc26a8ef708f43dce76dc4fc8e416251a27767817951f9f4fc78 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img) = > ac66c594afc689afb72d38aa95b89af1564b88d087358bd6f2ece122d05f48f3 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > ff0c9a6559638787eb12a35b5d75f6905fac9bdea30be3262611e4e97c0cb47d > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 RPI: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-RPI.img.xz) = > b6cc873d3d12164c4c72602398c6addcd3e96abf58613b85e12f8f137597e300b6d427d29d1f049fdddc6d49fe5e43c90814f570784834615a174807ea1fb258 > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-RPI.img.xz) = > 78d862e893572349345a26615690f0c185e5bd16fc27f0d402b211f34f65fdf7 > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64.img.xz) = > 8ae47d737433b355bd7e49a1fdee3c098b7ee18f58c8b451ef84ebfc6918e3df7589e47158c5c5bd2e39f39a08c903b0291c9452f9229d6744c3fc3fdc353442 > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64.img.xz) = > 46d6285ffc0b3ea1463b531ab88aa6ce982c60a435f4bdc754af63e1b8bfe55e > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64-LTS: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64-LTS.img.xz) = > fe6e926c1dc703d22cbd183e4472ed436ffb55cb40151dc17a7e70c303fc22fd7cd3a869f34afe4d353dba430a15258c1bcca78c88c431ff7b0faea310bca5cd > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64-LTS.img.xz) = > 373ab307b2823b4bbfd233bc5b804c3196e73a39c8595ebb0609e14dbd0ae433 > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINEBOOK: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINEBOOK.img.xz) = > 63be7d91056abdad1db50fdadea3466c970ba19f23106c00fe8ea1e3365842424af2a46c698285c89afda6c25faa03904e8bc60cabbcbd64a9c3dae5687e815a > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINEBOOK.img.xz) = > b38983227a710ed427054ceea6097e4c9938aec3d7e1f2c3fcd366cf8a75e46c > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCK64: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCK64.img.xz) = > 80c98a5144d2a4c0e0c52736a3f46c83789e083eb7d16062c07c1a3b1f4d7e93b9102ef16f800eb71f719abad0f0605cae6cccf6579dd59afb0a539543b6c0cc > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCK64.img.xz) = > 356470d1e36c4cfa62d976b39b4cde3adcf671605134c32d8d7106b364b4f581 > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCKPRO64: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCKPRO64.img.xz) = > 090ff8cd1a65e8f93a8374de8c40de68ac8dd6ddbb60b917095e5a73a54ad135a0d56193d5cb5fd3ac5ad9b0d7401ec482a09887332756f0b642bb8764fde8be > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCKPRO64.img.xz) = > 664498a6a732bf412288a8d02c0d53502d36817cd0a39260216623e24cf1bfb7 > > > o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERIC: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso) = > 8d97cb9c4f15a195afe07c5743f2aaf06e98db3347729959df00ffa1f09e9095287a592412e3cf0a96a56e205eaa42fc581e74af87ab71101f4f087ffd33a834 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > 2f7cce8f0cf8884f07e82be32c4353d9385c3356cbd965c6242e810eb992704cad87d8ae1b0e6b050ee92d5e0cb0f61ca93ab89ec07f638ae6605b4f544b3d93 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso) = > d669c43e542ff4b83fab9ecc55427d006130d78ccfac95d555653efabd64d758ccac83fb601fe89dbc1b896aaaa15aa1f880bbc6f43724bf91ddbf0a3fb2a41c > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso.xz) = > 56c238d6be6e7804c69d77f36995ef2412d24ee53cc3d164a7706d69071fc06f420dadcdfad1caa042a55680feb92a545e477002ff66896e0807049404f9c279 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso) = > 548de1225086271f0b472b08ed29d540d16a78ffc9bdbb59e52732c011cc28cebc2954a47444f096ada5ac5b5a23361aa9aad052e372c8c531a850173b76f358 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 71f2d4dbfcd7d711619c83e2ca33fddadce2eacfde93426293640e85ca796711240a72ceefd03de3c8bf41193d805d920e45ab27778a1fb669109fa1f8c75b90 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img) = > 3e4179d90710ea8109869a9161d5ba597bcbe73d2e4f6cb6a83b2a010f05c1217aa0f2dbf3a74322f439afcc5e8adc0b2f221eb14041af3bb42c55d053794046 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img.xz) = > a3d42480d226d522abfbfa30d85d599f062b1fcf5b5e9119f112518ab6f74a5ebb8e50b5969a99dd24843c0f66e1c600deca8f48ac343aa44c95810aef12c654 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img) = > 5b7a530f33a14953abb2d7f5c48ff5bb9af0d0af0a169d06c49dc38ab6afccafa1ef0c0feb50119ee7e1ee00ce86cca3310f8574dfffd408f51901d29dca5123 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 9da56585fd5ff0439550cbae0519ddd389bc2bbd9ca4c0822caa2cd7f495dcf2df54b605dca66777732e3351ac7494d4c8e8f0194165ac53c6248ad8fc8a741a > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso) = > 4dffab1337ce29059a13f8a54cb4d44157c00cb72ebcceb84e75576f795dd379 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso.xz) = > f386a80efdc0ca022f8da46c7348015ffaf5462fe4d7e617613d3155374870c7 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso) = > b66ce52d91b72455473fe3338c44d2e6449f13661c3da0ae53a859039cc0dabb > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso.xz) = > 714a8713d9e26a9cd3279f51d4ddc449be46868ec7da951ba50679b312240e06 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso) = > b10c0496d31538b8b84b11925131f15df1f00d3a0801a241c55e45a6021d5cdb > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso.xz) = > 9bc02efeeecf00068bd448847ddfb6f798daab847c93aa337e4d336aaa520f56 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img) = > 4c8a268efce88b0ccd36b40c2cf381839d17f2f00057d08998834f1aacb2bf2c > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img.xz) = > 1754e76ba5aa2e1a081fec88b932c583b371e819ac45e50c4c7a3ac6aeff7a46 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img) = > 9b7aaa23535b6b6b2494f7ee6a21926997c36d0cb7d6d2c495544de59d4efd95 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img.xz) = > 50103e7d9515085ac77c0ad17307a373950978da5042bb0be417b989048d917e > > > o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERICSD: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-GENERICSD.img.xz) = > 9f15d0b177b07539bebeb26fa3b9ab0a223b744638427f5f8a7f015fa50b8b2d2e29d78444a288f358c186b2a5230c04700dc3cb9b86e67fc334834c72b20ded > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-GENERICSD.img.xz) = > c0c35d67d5e7a1f6fcffe6c79e3b096ff55492d332e39bf067780b8868170bca > > > == VM IMAGE CHECKSUMS == > > o 13.0-RC5 amd64: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.qcow2.xz) = > 551525d3c7f428e24fa8cebb624ae1c2dc8e46fbbda818a53e92886f31b69429a23c93129c8a1bad96dbf07ebe774abaf76d816ba73ce114c6fdf5c3649e98ed > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.raw.xz) = > b0f69bf119f6ffc0817b6ad711f5c1359f34cdb6230249e27a66f6f2be46e5cc8eb5894f573c01618e622b82bf3258af3a3f7ddf828d4d17f945e2078645f524 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vhd.xz) = > 29dbbc94ca88ac3e83470de712cac81bc4476ddbe9e4d7e004d040ae92a286045060e7dba4842437c7089cd900d23d4bbc838ed52a9ab0d4e971cd41de3ebd78 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vmdk.xz) = > 2de8d506d5bd6483eae73c51e343b090d0c571f5d7afb54af129ecf0297b3fdc0c906a4bb10e6381939ecb5f7ecc33757354cd0096e86e181d445951b4cfe1a8 > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.qcow2.xz) = > 359ecc18a91abbee445114b064478bba0fe5d29c86a492d74ba8e8a07af94c23 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.raw.xz) = > 1d17e12acf6a8c193a3e2c80625290862be3eb80a7c66472d4059c5f9af2ce22 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vhd.xz) = > c5ab1f799ca5b3ae2b41e10a9b955828a1a3540fb8056535f325c4b0e0cb309f > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vmdk.xz) = > 9013b2601053acccc7dd5770f5d77c7312f049a43a85201771425494a0278bc7 > > > o 13.0-RC5 i386: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.qcow2.xz) = > 3f253c9ada0a164efa7989be598048007a5e1f67c8290a8b05e948e105ae5c34f4c5078b8eb0809a20421613a4fa4af4e938cc44607af096d30dfe4eec44c2c1 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.raw.xz) = > bdd26398825427e680fcb17e0f24fca767e0f9750b0eb8e1bc5c02b2f830f77f3a866dc8f511f36dc5356eb63296fe5cace667a2372bbce8cdadf90da064b586 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vhd.xz) = > ff78f171d97441d8397fcd02c03ec5fdc977225671c2ee5787ec38d39a191e384d00e1fc1f33f4396e5d78815a1cf804927c1af78df4be4a29b46f29152b4001 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vmdk.xz) = > 746724762977d5329aa78ca703002e76ca61de5ff5d2cb803566bc32c16083402fc7a605b81b25af5f84cbc56f138e1a12f6e9511a7b1812d752f0ef87352995 > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.qcow2.xz) = > 7903d4fe5cb311fa8824958a2b6d907b79056a41f32dc022c952f53fbd5a39d9 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.raw.xz) = > 994fc8b00f4bc6ce661816c004bb63027cc13fb3b11c707677b55c904aadc70a > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vhd.xz) = > 7a312962720977a0e085a57905355617a142ca1f38cdd2864eb2f647373b3243 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vmdk.xz) = > e050aa295c188e27c98fe362bb7e7e3f660d6ad1ab9dedc79cc9cca0ffa77b34 > > > o 13.0-RC5 aarch64: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.qcow2.xz) = > 73277d58d3783a2735ebca169543349f28d36b0dfaa6a06a0372bd1daf22931729b551024200831b079e85209dbf5088a310fc89d1f826df7e8bdf72d750ad91 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.raw.xz) = > 0faa21c210ec6bd466facd1157822be0fc58b9c0fed1fd47359c365299b0bd1d8108066c44589b0fc0ca6643a071e3e33f8ff07272d5c53b578e3df3c5db9ff2 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vhd.xz) = > 76329dcbcc25be42a9a4418ab066aa85179f68705e64d469c9e9ddb5f9e9ac59cbeba0b9da1c16b30ca3a30edbbe4b76bb24f85c7b0513b4dcc067201da06d55 > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vmdk.xz) = > 9cdef43ed152965b9d78c17d612a6052a824c3dd381a8c86100ac1b962c157c10084ed379c50f988811e48dc937898a9bdb92540529e7995a3deb4bf195bc86a > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.qcow2.xz) = > 527c8d16031bc2903ef19f8c76efcad4f0a27d19232c6aab28654d8bd19cfb15 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.raw.xz) = > c9c87c1d0f334c527e76dc620eb248ccb7019da8a6b7332444045985eb2f7769 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vhd.xz) = > 63f4a2fdd66ee3daee32ccdec3f1ac43b7244cbefec594e4f71c20082ef34665 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vmdk.xz) = > 31f2bf853a84bac73d934c54e8943505073648ae4fa8d30ac5d9f87c48f2b426 > > > o 13.0-RC5 riscv64: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.qcow2.xz) = > b5670ba9a2b9fdaba7fdec09f1c78b8f7117a666e1d91373c8bcc0ea1bc27c1c85b3027ae0d5a1d8605acf718ea9f72b2097a62633b69ffc3097863eb31d196d > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.raw.xz) = > bd63091c982f1a1aac7e45dc290910c4abd21d058e40e318b9e26d23ea418c4525e30ee7986203301a9eecca91bc30f2c4269025d851d79bb02f59f484e1178b > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vhd.xz) = > 89e9ba774f31b7917810d1a9187a51b5c209298be2a97587e83619a1599200f21332950307bf49ffee283cc0bd4f8be51818aebb8b4691bec86857e17d0ff72c > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vmdk.xz) = > baacc7e9fd7434844e688e05dc49127dfc8abfd3c447bf9ccdb1544f19720dba8a8152df63c5f1afc4a5ee58ba752ae3b994dd071a67f55ae6f5ba89e1765a4d > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.qcow2.xz) = > cfa955413a8f82972e007a287bec88ba92748e7b61b74e43688d697cda800fa0 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.raw.xz) = > 570c8048b79360c2cef949a8517e46c6dfa3c1afdf98559bda378ca955b5838e > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vhd.xz) = > 4c905e600b86b8b3e6c62603501c58b96a10e29acd67b4cecc0204d79aae64b0 > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vmdk.xz) = > 362b62e69d4a7ecd420baf8cb49dea155415fd4c6bae486aaf14fbb7bd7eeb5e > > > o 13.0-RC5 amd64 BASIC-CI: > SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-BASIC-CI.raw.xz) = > e9b1618d38b8d639d6f81c92d32fc967cd9e4e10e74f2d1f9ad39b8997a20dd3429d1e413df94966282954a1bba2b92e0e9f873391ddedb12b938aa35eb21b5c > > SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-BASIC-CI.raw.xz) = > d6ce539ef51808a426af5b256070a0198f5e5873e49bb437a773ed8ab6e7a818 > > Regards, > > Glen > > Love FreeBSD? Support this and future releases with a donation to > the FreeBSD Foundation! https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEjRJAPC5sqwhs9k2jAxRYpUeP4pMFAmBoixYACgkQAxRYpUeP > 4pPowg//UNT3FROP0xG8oMR/8B6mTZrdqUx/BCCIAHIaZwupkLU9mR1tmKsVYpLj > SBJBHEocKjOB2vOMsyeN5o7tMoeCniAedNpLsVE1nXyAYVxnfpHHqeG49walIhrt > Ok4p5DH4IfrCJVucdnP4736VISMGmONkZ0ZQOg5JuTkFx6wH1O7Qlf4wgN4b+vmm > hTPNqDIGp77Xr6krbdna4R0Zg1TTqMiiYvrrKwQDXL+tKE7XSRtdKmXF2bdVASoR > s/Ffe1KwRxWUxseQfyS6bxdvHqkTb/bQNk5FznkRN49dan6ym8JVdtX/KFwKypYI > 2t3Z8INyN+ZNZNinjkjJv/vTduTyBCdMNp6axq5XFnSJQxW6ZtlC5/pgf/gs3l/4 > dsjHiuRjM47krqpmbrM4Ko2HhpnNjjy0IEhJ5XPtQLIIKFkuKI/GKw6JbHH1EdrD > mVhvapFfmkZq/WiUm9hBVC5CZrwPSKiNbp0OgSXDqRNutHF4jTSq0dhhWAxECVLA > YmHGa6+kSep5wbm/6gD4aTPvtc7Iw/CSyY9ud96ueheLzrN+yoI+G+v+IU5WS3wU > eVo4tmUWmyZbIb+hLHKZWh+8+4OAeOZUBYTETO/N8ztP2fdY4qgNapKUBxuggNGI > JMQBW+KA7CIH2eb5tDGzhmT2cgxrQorq8VYSE+i29R152oYeJLI= > =a0qW > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > In the past, making these releases required pushing updates to https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/cperciva/freebsd-update-build/ . However, that repo is read-only now. I assume that it's been gitified, but I can't find the new location. Where is it? -Alan From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 21:22:39 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B735B668A for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 21:22:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=kcc5=JB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD6FV5lc8z4Vt6 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 21:22:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=kcc5=JB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA9E428416 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 23:22:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from illbsd.quip.test (ip-94-113-69-69.net.upcbroadband.cz [94.113.69.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B403C2840C for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 23:22:28 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Message-ID: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 23:22:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD6FV5lc8z4Vt6 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of SRS0=kcc5=JB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz has no SPF policy when checking 94.124.105.4) smtp.mailfrom=SRS0=kcc5=JB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.80 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[000.fbsd@quip.cz,SRS0=kcc5=JB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.113.69.69:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[94.124.105.4:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42000, ipnet:94.124.104.0/21, country:CZ]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[000.fbsd@quip.cz,SRS0=kcc5=JB=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[94.124.105.4:from:127.0.2.255]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[quip.cz]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 21:22:39 -0000 On 03/04/2021 22:39, Ed Maste wrote: > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? I am on FreeBSD for more than 20 years, running FTP service on almost all our servers but it never was ftpd from base. I saw other comments against removing it but from my point of view ftpd in base is useless for me. And I don't see much cases where FTP service is needed before any other package / port can be installed. As always there will be at least two groups of users one for, one against. Kind regards Miroslav Lachman From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 21:44:11 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622E05B6F04; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 21:44:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-f54.google.com (mail-ot1-f54.google.com [209.85.210.54]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD6kM1gtbz4WSF; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 21:44:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-f54.google.com with SMTP id 91-20020a9d08640000b0290237d9c40382so9748440oty.12; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 14:44:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AlC2IzdcYtCkWgOjjfsh9mu9DWQj4Hyq5qMCknWBLtQ=; b=blxQ8/6FiQPKhXGYH0yinOVjcUFiKVt8p7mkHPexXYMjtefw6O+2EJnoGsS8zrnDa2 kNxw8hyCfe19vi587r+GwRKFR8NWVsfBHiV/DTCRbW2s7+INTdTeHIKpMWKsxjXvQxlm rwKRHnu7jkw611EV98HIcLIl7EOZEz+rmyroM1jb1zsvhmEXG4T84fIM4pDwXbNe8miK A2DhhHHHhot+Rq7aEPMb+DI5DV2NI/oAU2Y9MVN8XrqT7e/+phG2QQZlAu/qQ52uz/IK MBmzqks4npPY07HS7ATQFmrqxZChYig6ZKGMHKs01aTACe+Obvf3k560UotQoTw2G0fq WCDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309j7LjDvFPsYYCYqF/jG6PFPxzUrtXt9/tcIsNFKNUQ0zouCV+ l0Z9+JPuf10DFm+NgaMeS71+OlmW46H0ly5DIfA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzqSjw2BeXbnu8P5xX94VOMN5nP1b0FRCfMZBeQEi7iRpZUbMAniqrVNS0hw3IrGaa7V0Oomsq4D5olXh26qK8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1af6:: with SMTP id c22mr19099907otd.291.1617572650008; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 14:44:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210403153446.GL92054@FreeBSD.org> <010001789ed2dfb8-5035b78d-bac8-4753-b8a9-0e6954f3f6b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010001789ed2dfb8-5035b78d-bac8-4753-b8a9-0e6954f3f6b7-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Alan Somers Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 15:43:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD 13.0-RC5 Now Available To: Colin Percival Cc: FreeBSD Release Engineering Team , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD , freebsd-snapshots@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD6kM1gtbz4WSF X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 21:44:11 -0000 On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 3:38 PM Colin Percival wrote: > On 4/4/21 1:50 PM, Alan Somers wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 9:34 AM Glen Barber > > wrote: > > > > The fifth RC build of the 13.0-RELEASE release cycle is now available. > > > > In the past, making these releases required pushing updates to > > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/cperciva/freebsd-update-build/ . > > Historically, we often made changes directly on the update builders and > then brought the svn tree back into sync later. > > > However, that repo is read-only now. I assume that it's been gitified, > but > > I can't find the new location. Where is it? > > I think the freebsd-update build code might be homeless right now. I know > I > have seen emails mentioning that it needs to land somewhere but I don't > recall > any decision being reached. > I vote for https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-update-build . From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 22:20:37 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E97005B7DD9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:20:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from relay4.cretaforce.gr (relay4.cretaforce.gr [195.201.253.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD7XN6jL0z4Z5P for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:20:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@cretaforce.gr) Received: from server1.cretaforce.gr (server1.cretaforce.gr [138.201.248.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.cretaforce.gr", Issuer "RapidSSL RSA CA 2018" (verified OK)) by smtp2.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBF7D1F8A9 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 01:20:33 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cretaforce.gr; s=cretaforce; t=1617574833; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=JZaPXcH9RK0Z8XNaErpr61/k+ptJwIXRroOXet1pmeU=; b=UrybSs41RgU4qjeEWkjAnxOY1NjO8sXbCfTNtAmvv7IkEcWg8nFLfgHmBNtKPmnFFUJc77 nywUfyR3/TMETNPYWNsqYKvcu+Rr4e1dtj6+jvL1ZZIJuma5YSkiWXux18EIEJixKtmhzq FY+MbTqW6OYAp8hPOoylczdp9ZW+MsA= Received: from macbook-air.fritz.box (athedsl-126859.home.otenet.gr [85.75.71.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: chris@cretaforce.gr) by server1.cretaforce.gr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A498A27336 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 01:20:33 +0300 (EEST) From: Christos Chatzaras Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 01:20:32 +0300 References: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> To: FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List In-Reply-To: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> Message-Id: <3A96BE67-4E40-4F11-BD9F-3C27C9133CF4@cretaforce.gr> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD7XN6jL0z4Z5P X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cretaforce.gr header.s=cretaforce header.b=UrybSs41; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@cretaforce.gr designates 195.201.253.147 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=chris@cretaforce.gr X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.10 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:195.201.253.147]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cretaforce.gr:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[195.201.253.147:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:195.201.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[195.201.253.147:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cretaforce.gr:s=cretaforce]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[chris]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cretaforce.gr]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[195.201.253.147:from:127.0.2.255]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[cretaforce.gr:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 22:20:38 -0000 > On 5 Apr 2021, at 00:22, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote: >=20 > On 03/04/2021 22:39, Ed Maste wrote: >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it = dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >=20 > I am on FreeBSD for more than 20 years, running FTP service on almost = all our servers but it never was ftpd from base. I saw other comments = against removing it but from my point of view ftpd in base is useless = for me. > And I don't see much cases where FTP service is needed before any = other package / port can be installed. >=20 > As always there will be at least two groups of users one for, one = against. >=20 > Kind regards > Miroslav Lachman I use FTP service too but pure-ftpd. Also the only reason sometimes I use telnet is to check if SSH is open: = "telnet server.example.com 22" but I can = use "nc server.example.com 22"= From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 22:21:45 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373B85B7FFF; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:21:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@freebsd.org) Received: from mail0.glenbarber.us (mail0.glenbarber.us [208.86.227.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail0.glenbarber.us", Issuer "Gandi Standard SSL CA 2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD7Yh60p9z4Z4b; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:21:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gjb@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.1.24] (24.102.164.36.res-cmts.swb2.ptd.net [24.102.164.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: gjb) by mail0.glenbarber.us (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03ADC2B404; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:21:37 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail0.glenbarber.us 03ADC2B404 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: FreeBSD 13.0-RC5 Now Available From: Glen Barber In-Reply-To: Cc: FreeBSD Release Engineering Team , FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 18:21:36 -0400 Message-Id: <17D378F3-ACDA-47C5-B7EC-FB31535EB81E@freebsd.org> References: To: Alan Somers X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18D61) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD7Yh60p9z4Z4b X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 22:21:45 -0000 Is it necessary to quote the *entire* email (including checksums)? Glen Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity and/or typos. > On Apr 4, 2021, at 4:50 PM, Alan Somers wrote: > =EF=BB=BF > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 9:34 AM Glen Barber wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 >>=20 >> The fifth RC build of the 13.0-RELEASE release cycle is now available. >>=20 >> Installation images are available for: >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 amd64 GENERIC >> o 13.0-RC5 i386 GENERIC >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpc GENERIC >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64 GENERIC64 >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64le GENERIC64LE >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpcspe MPC85XXSPE >> o 13.0-RC5 armv6 RPI-B >> o 13.0-RC5 armv7 GENERICSD >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 GENERIC >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 RPI >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64-LTS >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINEBOOK >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCK64 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCKPRO64 >> o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERIC >> o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERICSD >>=20 >> Note regarding arm SD card images: For convenience for those without >> console access to the system, a freebsd user with a password of >> freebsd is available by default for ssh(1) access. Additionally, >> the root user password is set to root. It is strongly recommended >> to change the password for both users after gaining access to the >> system. >>=20 >> Installer images and memory stick images are available here: >>=20 >> https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/ISO-IMAGES/13.0/ >>=20 >> The image checksums follow at the end of this e-mail. >>=20 >> If you notice problems you can report them through the Bugzilla PR >> system or on the -stable mailing list. >>=20 >> If you would like to use Git to do a source based update of an existing >> system, use the "releng/13.0" branch. >>=20 >> A summary of changes since 13.0-RC4 includes: >>=20 >> o COMPAT_FREEBSD32 fill/set dbregs/fpregs has been implemented for >> aarch64. >>=20 >> o Miscellaneous DTrace updates. >>=20 >> o An issue that could potentially affect some services to properly >> restart, notably Nginx, has been addressed. >>=20 >> o Miscellaneous networking fixes. >>=20 >> A list of changes since 12.2-RELEASE is available in the releng/13.0 >> release notes: >>=20 >> https://www.freebsd.org/releases/13.0R/relnotes.html >>=20 >> Please note, the release notes page is not yet complete, and will be >> updated on an ongoing basis as the 13.0-RELEASE cycle progresses. >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D Virtual Machine Disk Images =3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> VM disk images are available for the amd64, i386, and aarch64 >> architectures. Disk images may be downloaded from the following URL >> (or any of the FreeBSD download mirrors): >>=20 >> https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/VM-IMAGES/13.0-RC5/ >>=20 >> The partition layout is: >>=20 >> ~ 16 kB - freebsd-boot GPT partition type (bootfs GPT label) >> ~ 1 GB - freebsd-swap GPT partition type (swapfs GPT label) >> ~ 20 GB - freebsd-ufs GPT partition type (rootfs GPT label) >>=20 >> The disk images are available in QCOW2, VHD, VMDK, and raw disk image >> formats. The image download size is approximately 135 MB and 165 MB >> respectively (amd64/i386), decompressing to a 21 GB sparse image. >>=20 >> Note regarding arm64/aarch64 virtual machine images: a modified QEMU EFI >> loader file is needed for qemu-system-aarch64 to be able to boot the >> virtual machine images. See this page for more information: >>=20 >> https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm64/QEMU >>=20 >> To boot the VM image, run: >>=20 >> % qemu-system-aarch64 -m 4096M -cpu cortex-a57 -M virt \ >> -bios QEMU_EFI.fd -serial telnet::4444,server -nographic \ >> -drive if=3Dnone,file=3DVMDISK,id=3Dhd0 \ >> -device virtio-blk-device,drive=3Dhd0 \ >> -device virtio-net-device,netdev=3Dnet0 \ >> -netdev user,id=3Dnet0 >>=20 >> Be sure to replace "VMDISK" with the path to the virtual machine image. >>=20 >> BASIC-CI images can be found at: >>=20 >> https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/CI-IMAGES/13.0-RC5/ >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D Amazon EC2 AMI Images =3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> FreeBSD/amd64 EC2 AMIs are available in the following regions: >>=20 >> af-south-1 region: ami-0fe76e3a8c6a8d108 >> eu-north-1 region: ami-0fe9d5e3fd7bd2972 >> ap-south-1 region: ami-0090069af2f905566 >> eu-west-3 region: ami-042ea753bff8d6a9d >> eu-west-2 region: ami-08e0358d71a41ce97 >> eu-south-1 region: ami-0a1cb76bf83c3c49c >> eu-west-1 region: ami-0559fa7d3edc6e607 >> ap-northeast-3 region: ami-04492324222abcb1b >> ap-northeast-2 region: ami-0e851ff1f260888fd >> me-south-1 region: ami-087ab54ec6e4d0cbb >> ap-northeast-1 region: ami-0796973b853fba5e0 >> sa-east-1 region: ami-03f738fc556689a14 >> ca-central-1 region: ami-05f22cba7be241fbe >> ap-east-1 region: ami-07ac68b5cc29039bc >> ap-southeast-1 region: ami-04a8c807e53f07e72 >> ap-southeast-2 region: ami-097dc8195cad3a688 >> eu-central-1 region: ami-013f760d364d2d6a7 >> us-east-1 region: ami-0e5adeb6a86cb63c4 >> us-east-2 region: ami-04aac5053216613b1 >> us-west-1 region: ami-07a9e536124bc5cd3 >> us-west-2 region: ami-0d590e9beb5038bd0 >>=20 >> FreeBSD/aarch64 EC2 AMIs are available in the following regions: >>=20 >> af-south-1 region: ami-085df8d192daddc93 >> eu-north-1 region: ami-035b8e0f104183bde >> ap-south-1 region: ami-0224f547eb20ded51 >> eu-west-3 region: ami-092ad93b82e3a558a >> eu-west-2 region: ami-0567fa1f5daa6c238 >> eu-south-1 region: ami-00615cebecc52f525 >> eu-west-1 region: ami-0e2950449c94e05c8 >> ap-northeast-3 region: ami-03b7571b4a4af049e >> ap-northeast-2 region: ami-0b570af0ee358ee72 >> me-south-1 region: ami-0c57b43738fd4004b >> ap-northeast-1 region: ami-0e17a574439ffb174 >> sa-east-1 region: ami-0201af4c62a23a60f >> ca-central-1 region: ami-0eae8aba238f15999 >> ap-east-1 region: ami-005e7c3d7872ae536 >> ap-southeast-1 region: ami-0969bc5323ee517d9 >> ap-southeast-2 region: ami-07072603fa5909c39 >> eu-central-1 region: ami-0d7d0c153cecb0707 >> us-east-1 region: ami-0711d615450d8075e >> us-east-2 region: ami-09c56d3ad7a9e74c7 >> us-west-1 region: ami-0fde730ebfb68aa96 >> us-west-2 region: ami-027243f32c4f86017 >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D Vagrant Images =3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> FreeBSD/amd64 images are available on the Hashicorp Atlas site, and can >> be installed by running: >>=20 >> % vagrant init freebsd/FreeBSD-13.0-RC5 >> % vagrant up >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D Upgrading =3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> The freebsd-update(8) utility supports binary upgrades of amd64, i386 >> and aarch64 systems running earlier FreeBSD releases. Systems running >> earlier FreeBSD releases can upgrade as follows: >>=20 >> # freebsd-update upgrade -r 13.0-RC5 >>=20 >> During this process, freebsd-update(8) may ask the user to help by >> merging some configuration files or by confirming that the automatically >> performed merging was done correctly. >>=20 >> # freebsd-update install >>=20 >> The system must be rebooted with the newly installed kernel before >> continuing. >>=20 >> # shutdown -r now >>=20 >> After rebooting, freebsd-update needs to be run again to install the new >> userland components: >>=20 >> # freebsd-update install >>=20 >> It is recommended to rebuild and install all applications if possible, >> especially if upgrading from an earlier FreeBSD release, for example, >> FreeBSD 11.x. Alternatively, the user can install misc/compat11x and >> other compatibility libraries, afterwards the system must be rebooted >> into the new userland: >>=20 >> # shutdown -r now >>=20 >> Finally, after rebooting, freebsd-update needs to be run again to remove >> stale files: >>=20 >> # freebsd-update install >>=20 >> =3D=3D ISO CHECKSUMS =3D=3D >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 amd64 GENERIC: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso) =3D dfffeadbb060d71545a470= 2c6b37c6b2d9d28396919298cdfeb4f17ab916edbb8b607c904e9ae016a27cabb5a026d5cdc6= 631de3fd2f7deed9eb36c2b6351276 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 72cb3f5269eee672107= ccda802612be792fc3d7dfebfb2266a1b2cc9fb6088e3c141fce8c847a573a4e2994f5cc3605= 47d39223b5db23e9367580fb003c74b93 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso) =3D 07a934d9492e93f104637268e= 6e323527b71b3e4dec71b072e5324838d8b019ef0ec621654f7dcb363f75c8924ca11d6b100d= a545cf3f0789ad777c95712609e >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D f5f82be805bc3bdf4b967e= c211bd474fb2b3710dd4e4c33ce1f31626498baf660694d792dc2ecab5108315b093bdbb9fd9= 83abf515f21ac6027bf33b9b9de000 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso) =3D c0ecbc8dbcced7e37cb32cefa9= 44da5117bcb92eaec2d19ae9198520542b88f45c8d5d0b4a2f808cbedf44748d2e0e5ba144d7= 71f13766aa2d135048b7bbd9db >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D f92f0fdecd4d4b99df7dacd= 9d27b212b771b347c7ee23acf37bf776d25bb5049776e61e8429e7fc8b63f00efe23b9b2ac9b= 0e8b5ccc218c8abe1b1522e76b2ac >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img) =3D 26147b65e479dac6ecb18b= 2205b952bbd8b39ff6cbaae454a8f479b5ef6f6daaa6e3d75402390e9acdaf1f5219cb0b7623= 378a4545c285c426ab5296c1178686 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img.xz) =3D 4662821f6e70bbbeaff= c3d4fabf6311e7556abdc3e48c3926e3e1f72b305bc20044cca3c811c9e4202e897037a300f8= 1fd6407fc2870bd24374f7269de3e9704 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img) =3D 623d5bbe81ef67585= 426107ee5caaa360e9a435f0a5fb43bfd5ddb303dcb1c2a7b76b42d167ccebcf8908fba48516= 94b7e55c8821eb69f9477ce5e6157108d44 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 0e225b2116caaa= 719efd71edf33d84f83ffb742b930d0c9ed4998627d15033a30f9c2ff4549bbd6276ad0867c6= f3b3934e95e4520207858c82e02e68d35e980f >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso) =3D 843f3a70f5229af107a18e= 2a03c6809dd71d325722dc8bab9e018c41078ea5a4 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 561346c315e5831fd23= 6871d9ef8ed5cf0c76a1d5916fc850f5e4d9dd2450007 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso) =3D 785ea0b42266419d15d81225e= 12cdad480713195af9bef833384636c9749a682 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D ffbffa7dd7e79f841c656f= 0d84880a9cb9fbbc724b35cfecb9759f854548cbb0 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso) =3D c94a787eca63e27588315a8971= c74597af9a7ae237e544d753f963c035cd416d >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 679d4f47465cd5aee1eea4f= 0152d9dc7f243a72d43b1d9448e656b1e756ae46e >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img) =3D 563773ac3b911330858b52= a9b86ef74e4cd9dd359c57eda9706470c614ee2929 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-memstick.img.xz) =3D 39af8d7ee9ee2d8f3e3= 1905345efdc944182f599880148f40556faf06a2b34c7 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img) =3D da970de874f4ee958= 4087bec8577f92de8c02d10e77e910b6ff15f4e682f9c4b >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 2133ce0f8a80fb= 5b8259fe9f253bf53c56543b6902388ac762768b7fe0548cff >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 i386 GENERIC: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso) =3D 8ad9035f35ae9cb3d6e832a= ebb14bfba0d41052fe6fabc220b706ff1239990c4c018163467a9472f9b03b5730c9b000c11c= e1bd2779c5347bd4238625225c017 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 5a6d4ca2ce12fd3bec6e= 967f9c9c2ca78064cb28881418ea7eec9e52627e16735984caa6a1281fe86823315d53ce86d8= 9ac9191144c1bf63b3bb040dad5ed26e >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso) =3D 4c296a1e2befb7a97b654eff0a= 7dd3d546cb98c1dcfc656256a7249bd0c152f76e1ec54d2320cda1f80e89e1d6810a7d761fae= c26b258e54fcb8be3480b8c556 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 9ee852910024ec071455a3e= bedd5445cc4618d01e94c9ac5db1ff25db0c50f630a4711648887149ccbef5c61dc223fa28c9= 2eb1d7e08ff68bd461b0a6d6eab81 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso) =3D f317a2b4e1107ef098f466d3ed3= 2718656acf918aa77983d491ccf1491e9ce81520d365f9e4dfca5da69ec7d40b7f75c5d2a8b3= 4b2e91d9da96245cda5281f76 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D b8ca2be1830592867b9195c1= f217755966168ce0ebdd1e5ff7df582ca38fc0c2d07afe54c0c52c5c287e49273e7a1e5f6716= e79a45be6c79575c3317122613ce >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img) =3D 3ff922ad3978b3eb014df25= 0089e02fd4b05e85adbcaed64db3408f7376cf5b72d04300f72bd2626ee0c35902868898a332= a1de05f902861299316cfd47a1613 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img.xz) =3D e41d85b245d7e3e20f06= bc089f1dba8b806fdef7e498e2649e0b1165c3209a073a35cd67c0272bfffe2a5678107d4464= fa6aa2a56c482908f0ca0d6632aafcb6 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img) =3D eb7834cab28fffc04e= 38fd65f136a3918aa6cca43df2121dc5f477863ed1096d65dccc88d6b9860c24d1ea8449d1df= b96758162749b172e669c620eff2bd1645 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D d9ae34312fdb0d1= 9bdeae1cef285ea202ec59a616dba67c79879eb52eb1d148439692e32fe5f6a67636c891cca8= 57761306732363bc53977818664f3711d66fb >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso) =3D 79f35eabd8f510a44413da5= 32d900613c3b23ed79f1e98a8a2ecc7cacf2abe35 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D c3f5ec7847cec1760d6a= a0413b324443e7e3a843c9f83219775c24f5ab8c1894 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso) =3D e16077941d9e811026d7c10dbe= 1be78ef0c4973cf02bcec610ef5bf61e5a81a3 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-disc1.iso.xz) =3D b3d360824504419a416c0eb= c7bc28c63ea6c8722736a90603891b31b3d7e3089 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso) =3D 6f8d645310ffc0e0e5a3e6d08a6= 51d71d4364dc3568eb56c64103b1e5378e3a6 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 74ea5c4a1390506d308bd64e= 99889abb456ce8ea97bee2cf6649a6eeef4dbc89 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img) =3D 5dd60eab6d6b4fe7e4cf696= 93e759befaa49f2c3fa4ded328c40bf232ab424de >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-memstick.img.xz) =3D b372c1c77ffe8b64b649= 1970e5f2582de9bec4937f96e12882bd878d265cf64d >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img) =3D d0efe3f4a448594171= 26b75ee7325d0488527404f3b4157ccf4de0664f1f9a07 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D fdaab5a8fd3a4fb= a03b300e448164d55173986015473f350200c05efe1a852d8 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpc GENERIC: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso) =3D a32dba6b13f5dc3c8602= b3e5ef8754e8cc743b2be8cbf5e3858fcac36c14eb6458acd15ed8864957ca23def9fff67d85= 66985aa19444a7d232ae4762a375b2a0 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D b15e8e9eb63c3cbc7= be457e75f07ebe1a6d1a7ef2c5fd491dbb4ba70ab7c70c089fae8ec23040f98f3a20486ec4f1= 21ede4877aeabb762ca0d6e84a2b9590dc7 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso) =3D 085db6d63a4559d8e6ff689= 3afa3852b7535a398660463abbe1b57b6935e0b23f9766f09825fea4c4a42b4073f57451cdf4= 18b1fb4fcc41d7a8fafac1951d801 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 2ac711b82106a311b1bd= 0317643c4c3924de644c03d7906eb3eae388e4181ba9c7f6c8ef8f8a470e831614e54fe076c2= 6a7a4c67c58907e95f328f2307e00325 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso) =3D e26f5434ae54b9cd9afc64ed= e8cffc605c90cecd6c07ce2dafde0e34102caa0bf94b8a7ce77ee2498e2fdcf2652c4bf6c25c= 2ae76d0b37fe24469de9b0527ea5 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D afeec86faf153822b750e= 642184bfdff544fb59207ad70e2208ce6a30e8b74bebba608d326d4a2bceb474e870534783c0= 194fbd0b94d5969bc37298a250ab1c8 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img) =3D 37a82c1febc07e7b9bfe= 396521e786ab0f3172f6f5ad23ee10b7351f9a9d83c946c3ced5f4c0e888ef241e105b95606b= 0e7410e27d40ea984d27f1af737ec37a >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img.xz) =3D 31c9364d96803ff9f= 1c57a216e110a7fd5d303e17324f7b1f2bacfdb36afcaf5e7487a6829f87b044233ec42e64b7= ccdf2f5e32ae4bf98f543bab24e5300af2e >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img) =3D cb3fff298be469d= 973d511fb1f93708071c8ff5962758daae0f994f66b36afad6dda2cfd6ae1ce98a616d11b108= c61855adbfd493aec05f8091d8a56a3261066 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 2a47aa9151d1= c550e9fe8d6f9c04eaa893ab922a0f9900581a25e38448f2e657f5917ba2b5992a7fe370d3eb= 72d744eb94e05c974859ee92501a6622af2b6489 >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso) =3D 2827b49ca6c59f0008bc= 3601c82fbc102fda1b570ab36a533580b2bfea88f34f >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 7b5aa329441b97026= 9c52622d2e22dc6822ef16c1d459d132a48c41a09503e19 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso) =3D 8eaa08b5f578ffdeeb8cbd4= e7ac14e7b8398d27db742ed5a0bb51e4a499fb37e >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 08dadbb25838b533e995= 627614e7290be3ac42944ed63fe8545d7920a3f82b72 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso) =3D 142e79355ba203f11df43acc= fc27a4b6d22ccf7745e207e6909ac4290262c4db >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 10fec72bb315db41daad1= 44a22afdea30caa4155759f460985522886fb9096d1 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img) =3D b44acedab085967df85c= 836dfe8fa41d0dde8da94d2268f909436c5ab25de549 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-memstick.img.xz) =3D d69e8e2dff07fc98c= b3904d937cfbb4c5bf459dc115ae8a20da248ca83c6590e >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img) =3D 250f066f9d8f376= 24faf27c9098757620c914ae556c4f265c8e20f4d035270ea >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 333e7fab257c= 09aa04934e10e05da2c32f9fefded9bd0b351e6d2ba6b1be4442 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64 GENERIC64: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso) =3D c07ce0d53a= 1fcae04e9d08b4fc01d53cdf355a6788f4f6f655425b8ccfbd6b1913ab74f33b0da11650b117= 5358ef7d8ba205a8a24069108ff33b2fdf6204ddcd >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D bbbbbfd= e492f5d93a998d2f67fdf9492ac2ca5fa52914c9c1dc2f3ab6a00f2b4ed7952a18458b7da0ed= f9d9c685f36c35816de28bf855c4d918700ccff63368c >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso) =3D 37d400eb0265b= 32d811d047094c92f902f9d2c5e75fc9b696a66689b251a4a768d4b486ef2793333efe120e48= e13392c056f65676b2c6d5ad04310310bd9de1b >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 6db09309e2= 345923a6f25592d45912eef91c43d051e17bc81d40872790d79aadb79770a8539648cfa2b199= 286189ce3fb7e29be361191ccb51f5ead5334ddf12 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso) =3D 10b7841c14945e= 8f0de4a13b839aed9f48508ef2bf6e3dd48659fbb50df711141d2ffa7a3a4aa80c70fa077af6= b65494229e83b2feb400a011fe3904fd901c18 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 8ffb496e3de= 9c58c50d098b9eadd1bb7dfc3b08723ebae73f705804defe39a484282e8c4e314925056fc4da= 4ee4f1ac86e950fb30e6a27467e2e20a60971eca6 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img) =3D 591306f217= a7962a901d145c810f8814936568e043c91322dd94e99efa093f002a6bef1515954f5f1803b4= ac8686c530d857de707661aa24074995932fce8bed >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img.xz) =3D 01c0b49= 65ac8b0e9a913c38e340c06f929035bb8b86c08fcaea93ca9ad34bc76c39a6ca31a48a6d92aa= 96d8b63ae6c9deef631de756c71fde8d5d7bb09a8f4a7 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img) =3D 13907= a793588393fea23f3b99890f7342ccfa8d558c1bb67c6607d4cda5998abe336ff786bf615352= 0e73e9036ce27a7af5c43c9d74d25990ab84bd153841a04 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 1b= 1b7aaedec61f7e1fd6e29177ef9116a9a06f9c1ed75d9bf01e4a9284dca80993bc0882d3f23c= 0d1b94bbd562aa1b6dc36df391c6dd6293ab0586ef67c6b2b7 >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso) =3D 25c55622b7= 6bebbe8f0fe2f8a4bdb3e3574e8ebe6e51a0ca96cbe6e8ce603858 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D c811d69= f85b2a3ac734534a3006377d39db375a28926738d6b0ae216b22e14f9 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso) =3D 8473b71154284= 1cbe8426c4c4738c1dd621b48c53437ac7fe2e6ec4e71b65ae6 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 669e6383bc= c7df3ed3dc747aecdff85a8db9e228b194cfadd6333e2b202d7748 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso) =3D 6f3212a22f1d5a= e6636bdf78b11f0babc13072206b72a79e7ab774336b09325e >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 99ac5ffb123= 58d96bafbe2e96481957ae683c025edda1a2eeb67c5e15ba27f32 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img) =3D e517c77494= 9f162a81cf4f351e8be76ff63887c71b56c97dff1ef304181a3642 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-memstick.img.xz) =3D ee773a8= aaf21a7f77d471b4c92d59f82587cd2ef939dab6cdff0cf22e1ffb270 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img) =3D 11eaa= d33b936480e58ffeaa73a8df233462343380a05472bc1187005ec2a2763 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 36= 2075a568f7e64ef336c35b681f3870a369476997e4c4b8e2494ecca9e7a793 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpc64le GENERIC64LE: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso) =3D eecab860= c44d1251a91096bea60eacbe2697cc7dc48e793f3848f5cdfcda0ef1f23dd3fe65c3abea0f03= f2e2334e933156da8ed9433607f53255a1bdc7bed09d >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 90eeb= c957a30a857cdabaeef9f27c84e58874d1ea367d0ef3ae8eb30547e3080105de1a82b965a820= 5390ff75955f1fd82fced1404a08218f41b1e75d25f2c3a >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso) =3D 8bf4cf5f519= 2c44a764bc99da913393db47fe9aff7c87e4c76800215e73e137f9793859240ea3db0e8b14b1= dd4aaa7f4c133516eca94b15fae1197299d2b5382 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 03423138= f90dbe4b42a2b7a1f7ff2c22a00a3d764d1d3853fe609006759934a671567a1d79879a07f9a1= f534273003c0ff2e7c8580d5f80a36722c536ce34d5e >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso) =3D 5da23394beb3= b78ccd67bbca02db44f527b2963913a233c86e4d2c46fc99d18a2756c5c88826019928dab8e1= a4708d51182e47f85f1ceea72d26a7df88cba5be >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D f6e630015= f40a3e02b2202c666a0304507ec260bc06c8910c1ed508a65dbf76500188382e0f7f5eadc205= f66ff3cda1e48f0bafcbfcf5b131be5619e0eaedce8 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img) =3D cc490e6b= d2519100b1efe865e44f5a355149d5b4b296e7da3057d843746b8703ca97fc6dec192876ef9c= 050a12d72c931d8be62ce8669384ea2b4e5efdf76847 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img.xz) =3D c5c54= 1040fc48864a70ada1a45d2c70dd5c12289f2cc0d65b94e2e9aaebcf7a644d1490c67d71bf4f= c3533cc9932c262e309683b27c02a7708f4a6b812ccd372 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img) =3D db4= d50b2658cb3d1c20ac3eb18c6ad8741a6ee7433253077affd47102fecaf2ef5a9f78cf215ea6= ed135891e99142d458f546bc524bd6fa6baf59241d9617497 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 3= f0578f1c776197341013b5a587ad0d7093053c223fc3a6e3774350601feb03dd464d55cbac3d= 8262c90ed46e333ab04878cda88cfda340168ec9ed92731f78e >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso) =3D 44949a89= dd868f59fb83be8c6eb0dfee0239b7653237ec3b986bc3a5ad2aa84f >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 4d934= 143d93cc14a64387afc16aed1b3c7e61302063e97c92f905317ec8525dd >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso) =3D 1afda9365d4= ef07d363cab2eaff9af0b1f79fef97954b887b33240d50438caab >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 55e96496= 8892a4b8ba86fd43be8e1ef215dea1fc45ec338f33051bd0fe9a434b >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso) =3D 18e1091cb31c= 4db288a58268c23554449e2c67cac830d1e6247e6800a83e1c17 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D c67976d9a= 3b963c1f7912ed0734cdde8db5635d4f313f01e13c548afc012b588 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img) =3D 6bb73a40= 6466f51e68f1e69f8b2539cae5fc73fe4df880a4b9b7768954d6d3c6 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-memstick.img.xz) =3D b4bd4= 3ccfd1f6be7c92fcddbfa026e034150bdbefe3ec5d0b5cc1c0645b343ed >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img) =3D 8af= 515276bd2d4931d42ce0fea7b51686ada127cc1d36ae0a2d30b79486d2593 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpc64le-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D e= 6cfb3188bdb6db2bb6d72e855508687c4773f139e5171a0ab68f328d95d62f0 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 powerpcspe MPC85XXSPE: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso) =3D 8fdffa39a= 22c90c15c57db0543597b3f3f914da7523280e97896c2bdb49af7f51b053c127c5ea7ca5735a= 0ced9b35ad93b7239dcb98e7e318aebb4201ec34bdd >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D d66435= f8fa24f63bd42781de25983f91907abac22b5399b50b6a62d97354acd1afbd31789fdcb0bd18= 68ff3556e1728bb25bcb7471d5890abcaf2f0c4e471534 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso) =3D d3b345468885= 0a3441886d0bf2930d2acb7275ac3e0aa7b4bfe9c4b6777fe951cb2a217aa38f21d40880a72f= 73e15f97abbd5c7ec779c7c23a681eb5ed675a12 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso.xz) =3D d9f0f90b1= c380a295ddf88ee1c57a1360c6ebf6706a21ba33175f5fff0e0e5099e47c270978d39ed06d74= abc05982ee41a5c9d07f8185b316e8283a6ac9565ab >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso) =3D d407bf459140a= 991e16f6cedeff06477e01cb85fd1275eac936f9937cd6fdf5ca684d2c1a9cc6afea85bb5342= 6207aeaf98c40a3642d10afed9093fea5eebfff >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 31797f1acc= f117fee26a4213a9c5395f1d0adf4e591e9a089b706d2c92a80c796333e63ca53a20b86c1061= f63433cabe3b1032be45a9c8267bd86fca231885da >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img) =3D 0d519eaf0= fc676fa174ac41678a48aaae9581da6dd8ef4521019e5d820c25efa29747b633da8c3ce66166= 6957a880a74cf861589951e568a188ed6178e57c258 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img.xz) =3D 03cc0f= d9983656a77063380f7c743a939ec80d51575a7e159400783b19f6241ed82ee78bfb3ac35a0c= 046d6a72a42e2c6ac73676e59f9f739097ea8e8e844747 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img) =3D 0998= 01cd1e25e9142234cf77773d62a258a93ee8dafcf3ea3d6a433a968210eb70b164eb8d2396ef= e8748e700a999390d35c5933b7818f3f694a7d2d849afd4b >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 4= 2b293138765d7548fdef58ff018ebd71d7eab99e4db53d4fb2830e7e1122395ee596f785b036= 67d6d7bd3e3bf23847584f3c8016ac787bd53d620b24aa7085f >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso) =3D 3f274fce0= d33e110200ac2418e884502a701397dbebaa73b2544622d443153b2 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 62e85b= 4c51969a74d83e903be32cad9ec946993291def036d6d0b8970cbdfd0c >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso) =3D 134bcedfecc7= d1165a776f8ac3e9165984cd6ffe21816d4fbe6ea67ebf98de12 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-disc1.iso.xz) =3D da3ee317d= 806b053aecad3b2692accb370fb79fa45360efdb0d9f27adfd2b3cd >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso) =3D d3d4f33db8c26= 27f73a4765c1806de46498ea80b387ed2b96fc767eb2cda9729 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D ba3af7676d= 6f8c431a7fa1012bb599cc19e9e3770d18e01293c38c3175d3007a >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img) =3D 3d8ad5969= d65321025d90896289dd1dec6695ae1b413e3102eb49d4506439ae1 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-memstick.img.xz) =3D b51a27= 3ace661c9775a43785374e20d4dbc0282b0aeb748a02eeae69d6235523 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img) =3D 1e6e= f9b8a740eac73cb8d7578277c7bc580f3afdc51d444a74c00aeb5e03f530 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-powerpc-powerpcspe-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D a= 4fdfddc01b4fe4f5a112552acd2291f13c0b31ca3cb548e3abf58c0ba89a2c6 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 armv6 RPI-B: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv6-RPI-B.img.xz) =3D d592a0e2be89218c94= 43b39037982a562dbca4bb238739e0999e1c4450eee5dc282f9e76fab911f958881fb0cd7f2b= 25e3e3cacdcd8fe169aebab9c35b72811b >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv6-RPI-B.img.xz) =3D 7830ec0146f7200043= 8251e27136a836dc9f349798a5c5f35529f2121b5f50ad >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 armv7 GENERICSD: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv7-GENERICSD.img.xz) =3D 6e084b9721a287= fdbba6d7c94c957d65150f46069797801f8e19bf2fb0a59984ea58c4b8d6ec2dd16207a3ccde= 201da23804bf5931e236c4672d748c41a2b45a >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm-armv7-GENERICSD.img.xz) =3D 0c4a705a32914f= bc279ee7bd0d156c4fd90a37bbc6f492b16e153a516611cc4c >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 GENERIC: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso) =3D f643bf63177377= 5ab604af7c5c19880d4cf0b9462087d62fb55afe95155fd94e35d56f2d661f845c18826d7019= 7fc7a8a4822220bd4d1a3a59e3a76d7bfe3f17 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D a1dfd6a632c= b795027719ac2e3b6f8aff42c7c980e07eb63cf6c3b293e16f320dfb692987ec93b93ede9360= 97c42c2efde0d5cbbe780a359f47ad4c5a171ebd4 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso) =3D 1d4c9236312520dc6= 0daba71bfb1655709397c8801afa209aa0a28f05395a84e46ef2b672195a8faff44ea938d2ec= 0024c7ce175ef421f407ba3a5d6c2808ff0 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 14845d0684b247= 43e97adb5c09a7c64207e98f22d277a0338572de3e1f634549956f2fea9e06ef46d1a461683b= 6e27cf7c9db8a24dda28fa837e59f7dd477d3a >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso) =3D 3c9d89502fe5b8d983= 65179c0880049ba377cbd3fe814dee8f6ab469d181c527cda4884404830083d0ce452daf70b2= e727e5f4b47358fc9e8dc237c712f301a3 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D fbcb5b34455bce5= 008112d6b585a694826c2a500447635296073ad20c4e61e109dae274f2de2450a4e657259321= 325142b60f53cac421992f0e22b8906373667 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img) =3D dd5b011cf04e6d= 2fbaedcc21fb5740c5e3328e6af392c4a62b88c7fb860d96e1650b5c3c8859ee958af02f3076= 90db18fc96b30f00d6174610e2e0f692eda270 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img.xz) =3D 991dbaa2010= 289bd83b038d06c961ef7ac0f277575a21b72b02a8af957ab286b72a144ac3978962ea1432fd= ae261ad08b9497218934641fa3bcab5e4c0e712e6 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img) =3D f3525a300= 1a5b0a8fab02d0924ec0507fb337dd9cc8cc8ec43476621519ace704dba222e86562a0496de5= 32a8184b9ad8dc07097d75f7b7b25fc0656189cca2d >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 5aede6= 8f37bf75753a7bcf97b90fde5336a8d8604c4d90ff3cd14a5702d8e5d4e8c4bc14a249d929b8= 650836fbe9c4a8fccfd0151a49c2c1d30ac9403ab5ccc6 >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso) =3D 4f8d57730fe5cd= aaa61f426013f883ee56711da983123fabdf6b27d886c94d85 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 3d7501df1d5= 5c4418587ecee6465d7f78ebdb1cdb2e183ae1352eaa7180d925a >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso) =3D 8d3178e7158e0e3f9= 8834aafefd305ffe8a9db35fbc943d501b0b75e238c3048 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 4781b34dd623ca= caf279e2723527d6b8429ed170f3d3194c390f547be09f5784 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso) =3D 164a0f647d8af29484= 3cddf1847ffc84326aa827b9fac5e88bc5367c3ece0b95 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D a76603fbd0c57cd= 0ea11e5d15f88b7040f676ba9e0b1f9e46af6e75ded6b6d09 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img) =3D 66a50d93648040= dfec578b4b404b0a66a53511c9cd8d633e41cd88d197dcf959 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-memstick.img.xz) =3D 1673f1f89c8= 7cc26a8ef708f43dce76dc4fc8e416251a27767817951f9f4fc78 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img) =3D ac66c594a= fc689afb72d38aa95b89af1564b88d087358bd6f2ece122d05f48f3 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D ff0c9a= 6559638787eb12a35b5d75f6905fac9bdea30be3262611e4e97c0cb47d >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 RPI: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-RPI.img.xz) =3D b6cc873d3d12164c= 4c72602398c6addcd3e96abf58613b85e12f8f137597e300b6d427d29d1f049fdddc6d49fe5e= 43c90814f570784834615a174807ea1fb258 >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-RPI.img.xz) =3D 78d862e893572349= 345a26615690f0c185e5bd16fc27f0d402b211f34f65fdf7 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64.img.xz) =3D 8ae47d737433b= 355bd7e49a1fdee3c098b7ee18f58c8b451ef84ebfc6918e3df7589e47158c5c5bd2e39f39a0= 8c903b0291c9452f9229d6744c3fc3fdc353442 >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64.img.xz) =3D 46d6285ffc0b3= ea1463b531ab88aa6ce982c60a435f4bdc754af63e1b8bfe55e >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINE64-LTS: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64-LTS.img.xz) =3D fe6e926c1= dc703d22cbd183e4472ed436ffb55cb40151dc17a7e70c303fc22fd7cd3a869f34afe4d353db= a430a15258c1bcca78c88c431ff7b0faea310bca5cd >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINE64-LTS.img.xz) =3D 373ab307b= 2823b4bbfd233bc5b804c3196e73a39c8595ebb0609e14dbd0ae433 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 PINEBOOK: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINEBOOK.img.xz) =3D 63be7d91056= abdad1db50fdadea3466c970ba19f23106c00fe8ea1e3365842424af2a46c698285c89afda6c= 25faa03904e8bc60cabbcbd64a9c3dae5687e815a >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-PINEBOOK.img.xz) =3D b38983227a7= 10ed427054ceea6097e4c9938aec3d7e1f2c3fcd366cf8a75e46c >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCK64: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCK64.img.xz) =3D 80c98a5144d2a= 4c0e0c52736a3f46c83789e083eb7d16062c07c1a3b1f4d7e93b9102ef16f800eb71f719abad= 0f0605cae6cccf6579dd59afb0a539543b6c0cc >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCK64.img.xz) =3D 356470d1e36c4= cfa62d976b39b4cde3adcf671605134c32d8d7106b364b4f581 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64 ROCKPRO64: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCKPRO64.img.xz) =3D 090ff8cd1a= 65e8f93a8374de8c40de68ac8dd6ddbb60b917095e5a73a54ad135a0d56193d5cb5fd3ac5ad9= b0d7401ec482a09887332756f0b642bb8764fde8be >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64-ROCKPRO64.img.xz) =3D 664498a6a7= 32bf412288a8d02c0d53502d36817cd0a39260216623e24cf1bfb7 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERIC: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso) =3D 8d97cb9c4f15a1= 95afe07c5743f2aaf06e98db3347729959df00ffa1f09e9095287a592412e3cf0a96a56e205e= aa42fc581e74af87ab71101f4f087ffd33a834 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D 2f7cce8f0cf= 8884f07e82be32c4353d9385c3356cbd965c6242e810eb992704cad87d8ae1b0e6b050ee92d5= e0cb0f61ca93ab89ec07f638ae6605b4f544b3d93 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso) =3D d669c43e542ff4b83= fab9ecc55427d006130d78ccfac95d555653efabd64d758ccac83fb601fe89dbc1b896aaaa15= aa1f880bbc6f43724bf91ddbf0a3fb2a41c >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 56c238d6be6e78= 04c69d77f36995ef2412d24ee53cc3d164a7706d69071fc06f420dadcdfad1caa042a55680fe= b92a545e477002ff66896e0807049404f9c279 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso) =3D 548de1225086271f0b= 472b08ed29d540d16a78ffc9bdbb59e52732c011cc28cebc2954a47444f096ada5ac5b5a2336= 1aa9aad052e372c8c531a850173b76f358 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 71f2d4dbfcd7d71= 1619c83e2ca33fddadce2eacfde93426293640e85ca796711240a72ceefd03de3c8bf41193d8= 05d920e45ab27778a1fb669109fa1f8c75b90 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img) =3D 3e4179d90710ea= 8109869a9161d5ba597bcbe73d2e4f6cb6a83b2a010f05c1217aa0f2dbf3a74322f439afcc5e= 8adc0b2f221eb14041af3bb42c55d053794046 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img.xz) =3D a3d42480d22= 6d522abfbfa30d85d599f062b1fcf5b5e9119f112518ab6f74a5ebb8e50b5969a99dd24843c0= f66e1c600deca8f48ac343aa44c95810aef12c654 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img) =3D 5b7a530f3= 3a14953abb2d7f5c48ff5bb9af0d0af0a169d06c49dc38ab6afccafa1ef0c0feb50119ee7e1e= e00ce86cca3310f8574dfffd408f51901d29dca5123 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 9da565= 85fd5ff0439550cbae0519ddd389bc2bbd9ca4c0822caa2cd7f495dcf2df54b605dca6677773= 2e3351ac7494d4c8e8f0194165ac53c6248ad8fc8a741a >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso) =3D 4dffab1337ce29= 059a13f8a54cb4d44157c00cb72ebcceb84e75576f795dd379 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-bootonly.iso.xz) =3D f386a80efdc= 0ca022f8da46c7348015ffaf5462fe4d7e617613d3155374870c7 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso) =3D b66ce52d91b724554= 73fe3338c44d2e6449f13661c3da0ae53a859039cc0dabb >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-disc1.iso.xz) =3D 714a8713d9e26a= 9cd3279f51d4ddc449be46868ec7da951ba50679b312240e06 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso) =3D b10c0496d31538b8b8= 4b11925131f15df1f00d3a0801a241c55e45a6021d5cdb >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-dvd1.iso.xz) =3D 9bc02efeeecf000= 68bd448847ddfb6f798daab847c93aa337e4d336aaa520f56 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img) =3D 4c8a268efce88b= 0ccd36b40c2cf381839d17f2f00057d08998834f1aacb2bf2c >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-memstick.img.xz) =3D 1754e76ba5a= a2e1a081fec88b932c583b371e819ac45e50c4c7a3ac6aeff7a46 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img) =3D 9b7aaa235= 35b6b6b2494f7ee6a21926997c36d0cb7d6d2c495544de59d4efd95 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-mini-memstick.img.xz) =3D 50103e= 7d9515085ac77c0ad17307a373950978da5042bb0be417b989048d917e >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 riscv64 GENERICSD: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-GENERICSD.img.xz) =3D 9f15d0b177= b07539bebeb26fa3b9ab0a223b744638427f5f8a7f015fa50b8b2d2e29d78444a288f358c186= b2a5230c04700dc3cb9b86e67fc334834c72b20ded >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64-GENERICSD.img.xz) =3D c0c35d67d5= e7a1f6fcffe6c79e3b096ff55492d332e39bf067780b8868170bca >>=20 >>=20 >> =3D=3D VM IMAGE CHECKSUMS =3D=3D >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 amd64: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.qcow2.xz) =3D 551525d3c7f428e24fa8cebb62= 4ae1c2dc8e46fbbda818a53e92886f31b69429a23c93129c8a1bad96dbf07ebe774abaf76d81= 6ba73ce114c6fdf5c3649e98ed >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.raw.xz) =3D b0f69bf119f6ffc0817b6ad711f5= c1359f34cdb6230249e27a66f6f2be46e5cc8eb5894f573c01618e622b82bf3258af3a3f7ddf= 828d4d17f945e2078645f524 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vhd.xz) =3D 29dbbc94ca88ac3e83470de712ca= c81bc4476ddbe9e4d7e004d040ae92a286045060e7dba4842437c7089cd900d23d4bbc838ed5= 2a9ab0d4e971cd41de3ebd78 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vmdk.xz) =3D 2de8d506d5bd6483eae73c51e34= 3b090d0c571f5d7afb54af129ecf0297b3fdc0c906a4bb10e6381939ecb5f7ecc33757354cd0= 096e86e181d445951b4cfe1a8 >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.qcow2.xz) =3D 359ecc18a91abbee445114b064= 478bba0fe5d29c86a492d74ba8e8a07af94c23 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.raw.xz) =3D 1d17e12acf6a8c193a3e2c806252= 90862be3eb80a7c66472d4059c5f9af2ce22 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vhd.xz) =3D c5ab1f799ca5b3ae2b41e10a9b95= 5828a1a3540fb8056535f325c4b0e0cb309f >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64.vmdk.xz) =3D 9013b2601053acccc7dd5770f5d= 77c7312f049a43a85201771425494a0278bc7 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 i386: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.qcow2.xz) =3D 3f253c9ada0a164efa7989be598= 048007a5e1f67c8290a8b05e948e105ae5c34f4c5078b8eb0809a20421613a4fa4af4e938cc4= 4607af096d30dfe4eec44c2c1 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.raw.xz) =3D bdd26398825427e680fcb17e0f24f= ca767e0f9750b0eb8e1bc5c02b2f830f77f3a866dc8f511f36dc5356eb63296fe5cace667a23= 72bbce8cdadf90da064b586 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vhd.xz) =3D ff78f171d97441d8397fcd02c03ec= 5fdc977225671c2ee5787ec38d39a191e384d00e1fc1f33f4396e5d78815a1cf804927c1af78= df4be4a29b46f29152b4001 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vmdk.xz) =3D 746724762977d5329aa78ca70300= 2e76ca61de5ff5d2cb803566bc32c16083402fc7a605b81b25af5f84cbc56f138e1a12f6e951= 1a7b1812d752f0ef87352995 >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.qcow2.xz) =3D 7903d4fe5cb311fa8824958a2b6= d907b79056a41f32dc022c952f53fbd5a39d9 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.raw.xz) =3D 994fc8b00f4bc6ce661816c004bb6= 3027cc13fb3b11c707677b55c904aadc70a >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vhd.xz) =3D 7a312962720977a0e085a57905355= 617a142ca1f38cdd2864eb2f647373b3243 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-i386.vmdk.xz) =3D e050aa295c188e27c98fe362bb7e= 7e3f660d6ad1ab9dedc79cc9cca0ffa77b34 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 aarch64: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.qcow2.xz) =3D 73277d58d3783a2735= ebca169543349f28d36b0dfaa6a06a0372bd1daf22931729b551024200831b079e85209dbf50= 88a310fc89d1f826df7e8bdf72d750ad91 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.raw.xz) =3D 0faa21c210ec6bd466fa= cd1157822be0fc58b9c0fed1fd47359c365299b0bd1d8108066c44589b0fc0ca6643a071e3e3= 3f8ff07272d5c53b578e3df3c5db9ff2 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vhd.xz) =3D 76329dcbcc25be42a9a4= 418ab066aa85179f68705e64d469c9e9ddb5f9e9ac59cbeba0b9da1c16b30ca3a30edbbe4b76= bb24f85c7b0513b4dcc067201da06d55 >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vmdk.xz) =3D 9cdef43ed152965b9d7= 8c17d612a6052a824c3dd381a8c86100ac1b962c157c10084ed379c50f988811e48dc937898a= 9bdb92540529e7995a3deb4bf195bc86a >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.qcow2.xz) =3D 527c8d16031bc2903e= f19f8c76efcad4f0a27d19232c6aab28654d8bd19cfb15 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.raw.xz) =3D c9c87c1d0f334c527e76= dc620eb248ccb7019da8a6b7332444045985eb2f7769 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vhd.xz) =3D 63f4a2fdd66ee3daee32= ccdec3f1ac43b7244cbefec594e4f71c20082ef34665 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-arm64-aarch64.vmdk.xz) =3D 31f2bf853a84bac73d9= 34c54e8943505073648ae4fa8d30ac5d9f87c48f2b426 >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 riscv64: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.qcow2.xz) =3D b5670ba9a2b9fdaba7= fdec09f1c78b8f7117a666e1d91373c8bcc0ea1bc27c1c85b3027ae0d5a1d8605acf718ea9f7= 2b2097a62633b69ffc3097863eb31d196d >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.raw.xz) =3D bd63091c982f1a1aac7e= 45dc290910c4abd21d058e40e318b9e26d23ea418c4525e30ee7986203301a9eecca91bc30f2= c4269025d851d79bb02f59f484e1178b >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vhd.xz) =3D 89e9ba774f31b7917810= d1a9187a51b5c209298be2a97587e83619a1599200f21332950307bf49ffee283cc0bd4f8be5= 1818aebb8b4691bec86857e17d0ff72c >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vmdk.xz) =3D baacc7e9fd7434844e6= 88e05dc49127dfc8abfd3c447bf9ccdb1544f19720dba8a8152df63c5f1afc4a5ee58ba752ae= 3b994dd071a67f55ae6f5ba89e1765a4d >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.qcow2.xz) =3D cfa955413a8f82972e= 007a287bec88ba92748e7b61b74e43688d697cda800fa0 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.raw.xz) =3D 570c8048b79360c2cef9= 49a8517e46c6dfa3c1afdf98559bda378ca955b5838e >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vhd.xz) =3D 4c905e600b86b8b3e6c6= 2603501c58b96a10e29acd67b4cecc0204d79aae64b0 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-riscv-riscv64.vmdk.xz) =3D 362b62e69d4a7ecd420= baf8cb49dea155415fd4c6bae486aaf14fbb7bd7eeb5e >>=20 >>=20 >> o 13.0-RC5 amd64 BASIC-CI: >> SHA512 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-BASIC-CI.raw.xz) =3D e9b1618d38b8d639d6f= 81c92d32fc967cd9e4e10e74f2d1f9ad39b8997a20dd3429d1e413df94966282954a1bba2b92= e0e9f873391ddedb12b938aa35eb21b5c >>=20 >> SHA256 (FreeBSD-13.0-RC5-amd64-BASIC-CI.raw.xz) =3D d6ce539ef51808a426a= f5b256070a0198f5e5873e49bb437a773ed8ab6e7a818 >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Glen >>=20 >> Love FreeBSD? Support this and future releases with a donation to >> the FreeBSD Foundation! https://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/ >>=20 >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>=20 >> iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEjRJAPC5sqwhs9k2jAxRYpUeP4pMFAmBoixYACgkQAxRYpUeP >> 4pPowg//UNT3FROP0xG8oMR/8B6mTZrdqUx/BCCIAHIaZwupkLU9mR1tmKsVYpLj >> SBJBHEocKjOB2vOMsyeN5o7tMoeCniAedNpLsVE1nXyAYVxnfpHHqeG49walIhrt >> Ok4p5DH4IfrCJVucdnP4736VISMGmONkZ0ZQOg5JuTkFx6wH1O7Qlf4wgN4b+vmm >> hTPNqDIGp77Xr6krbdna4R0Zg1TTqMiiYvrrKwQDXL+tKE7XSRtdKmXF2bdVASoR >> s/Ffe1KwRxWUxseQfyS6bxdvHqkTb/bQNk5FznkRN49dan6ym8JVdtX/KFwKypYI >> 2t3Z8INyN+ZNZNinjkjJv/vTduTyBCdMNp6axq5XFnSJQxW6ZtlC5/pgf/gs3l/4 >> dsjHiuRjM47krqpmbrM4Ko2HhpnNjjy0IEhJ5XPtQLIIKFkuKI/GKw6JbHH1EdrD >> mVhvapFfmkZq/WiUm9hBVC5CZrwPSKiNbp0OgSXDqRNutHF4jTSq0dhhWAxECVLA >> YmHGa6+kSep5wbm/6gD4aTPvtc7Iw/CSyY9ud96ueheLzrN+yoI+G+v+IU5WS3wU >> eVo4tmUWmyZbIb+hLHKZWh+8+4OAeOZUBYTETO/N8ztP2fdY4qgNapKUBxuggNGI >> JMQBW+KA7CIH2eb5tDGzhmT2cgxrQorq8VYSE+i29R152oYeJLI=3D >> =3Da0qW >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " >=20 > In the past, making these releases required pushing updates to https://svn= web.freebsd.org/base/user/cperciva/freebsd-update-build/ . However, that re= po is read-only now. I assume that it's been gitified, but I can't find the= new location. Where is it? > -Alan From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 22:31:06 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECED5B8C8E for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:31:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonc@chen.org.nz) Received: from mail-oi1-x22b.google.com (mail-oi1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD7mT1Njmz4bD8 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:31:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jonc@chen.org.nz) Received: by mail-oi1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id k25so10128830oic.4 for ; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 15:31:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=chen-org-nz.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2yBocXj1nt5/RQBpONkzoc25jyRxhEdT1mGzLpEsgTA=; b=k+u2aJdcmSX24BO4lIhHbsecRSm/gOveNtNtvwhHBLNyglj5l9Axhp+RJ/Ecs8pJ3r KUv204/SyvNxpBja9ia5sBQT/X8tJAVGCmW8kSsmEg1ETGdRPOgVQnqk1gT1Z0UcBmIR VULL9qrQpkm+p6YmnX8t71eEdwsY+wMVceml7DiJ7N3v13hXCOqowRSAHlek2nCiW2+D GfL1WdCPHApokLoqXHvOMKdl9lKRY1hMDZHHKZU3DCk0QOcuseaMgbEdr7C0Cd86F1Gn ACPPTJLZmhuAGRQXh7nI2/bGfIfzI53pzBnG6deLrT0lMbBf5e4gep1kqPLwokdqol02 MU6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2yBocXj1nt5/RQBpONkzoc25jyRxhEdT1mGzLpEsgTA=; b=XsNSuGXj8g407kmsv74LkZUWepnALr1E1z6wXzOYJXnXnI0opywNFu290gusYBVxDn KEfyZ2869UTTJuy2GXriG8IogPCWCPKjdwGmT0mVNUauQBlDVZ6HXzzdgtypu/Gy8tgb xpLm+kSA2qh0Gm9IS87XsUQ5VIVsxNqpDTe7gFB71eR1V6ofwIxWDe1XULALSKrIwA43 5z6p4Ol6aiVkQtkMRteaPs5C6NZLXKK6hJ95XlgxhEZe0l3xkrexJUAvzdxKMJWJdBx9 dXKdoIjggDDIEi2f5vks3SB/MJ0OKyIMlM625KiLnlG1vrGmFEYC0tIcljcjcABbGUXG kyxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530yO+q+gMyI3GAb0SlNM7D8cETBDbozpMf6klMSU0HS2ZrVMA8J qK2X9XifC6BJL8OG5dh7KwlNE7qoagMi1FLi66rhOA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy+fiMwgWO0Vis/+dgQCMRrRBlCCPrbipLv4yRNeAWnr8DbTgufOLcq6MOFWzpiaGVZdDVjSz+faOY0vdnV/Ro= X-Received: by 2002:aca:2106:: with SMTP id 6mr16273256oiz.150.1617575463733; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 15:31:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jonathan Chen Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 10:30:48 +1200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Ed Maste Cc: freebsd-stable stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD7mT1Njmz4bD8 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=chen-org-nz.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=k+u2aJdc; dmarc=none; spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b is neither permitted nor denied by domain of jonc@chen.org.nz) smtp.mailfrom=jonc@chen.org.nz X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.30 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[chen-org-nz.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[chen.org.nz]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[chen-org-nz.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 22:31:06 -0000 On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 at 08:40, Ed Maste wrote: > > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. I vote for leaving it on the system. I have a small basic system on a portable hard drive; no installed ports. Just enough to carry in a USB key, and to plug into any computer on a network. Having FTP out-of-the-box makes the system usable as a server immediately without having to search around for an ftp-package. Cheers. -- Jonathan Chen From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 23:25:54 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76E95B9FE9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 23:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dch@skunkwerks.at) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD8zj62NZz4dcC; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 23:25:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dch@skunkwerks.at) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C725C009D; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap6 ([10.202.2.56]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:25:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=skunkwerks.at; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :cc:subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=HEt7sSF9a+kqHKoSQswY5PH+4v8O 4456fJ04EjZi4S0=; b=CRy/nLP+KBOKXoc+UC1OpF0tVr6KVwWVcCbvKalgafX9 8RUEIFxrCbDFZDzDdORx1xL4B8BdzeDTMJRnbS4zqyKCAOZPSPVu5L50S+43sJwz OzpQR5KzpEprVwPVIzrxRPCodd5bv4fDhgY1db/i4GR8r1l5f+4uCz0A09hFNcnj 1miVFQxjOhZYbSun6IJ3lRZutXN1O5n3LM7+xi8kyNA86Z5IeU/fcC6rtSxSSLOo h49xUf6Yk4Kif2BtHNrrt9zwS4x7PTRsdoIzblj5AgItu4ga+/LQIj9uLUb9RwqK AhHkWqryDKAsmeWx3bxDgb6YZTlWSot8DIc/ZOHhsg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=HEt7sS F9a+kqHKoSQswY5PH+4v8O4456fJ04EjZi4S0=; b=B97wUOGOfRvOSmcRSyfYHE mkoO6/j9qegWuscThlLg8n0PJ+mgEr0DF4w4a+X7k3MdXRHQMPP2oq4L7E8oNCQp +rqPMop81VLRXeW/8F00Tue0HNPgSEJ8Y3i7unKSkbyZU4F6CzzPZ9sJMLCCnVrF cIavdT359rI5Ua6tA4IZOacMhWCizQzm2UKze008FY8LE0MZx/q3irMHA7JPHQqp ivGV8lIkDZBulcd7zO0iOWOLbE0fMDN9bZRJa8Lufia6We/fT0TPivLifYVFxVux GPP3JLiVkD1tvVU+J9K0XF/CiSc78dQJb/vO+Pw3NVKWI+flPNc+D/0uWGfMnpCw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudejuddgvdduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdffrghv vgcuvehothhtlhgvhhhusggvrhdfuceouggthhesshhkuhhnkhifvghrkhhsrdgrtheqne cuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdetleejhfevteeigeefgeegteejieffudefvdeivdfgteei hefguefggffhkeehnecuffhomhgrihhnpehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsth gvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepuggthhesshhkuhhnkhif vghrkhhsrdgrth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0DC7A2402DE; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:25:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> References: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 23:25:29 +0000 From: "Dave Cottlehuber" To: "FreeBSD Stable" Cc: "Ed Maste" Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD8zj62NZz4dcC X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=skunkwerks.at header.s=fm2 header.b=CRy/nLP+; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=B97wUOGO; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dch@skunkwerks.at designates 66.111.4.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dch@skunkwerks.at X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.59 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.111.4.27]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[skunkwerks.at:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.111.4.27:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[skunkwerks.at:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[dch]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[skunkwerks.at]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[66.111.4.27:from]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 23:25:54 -0000 > On 03/04/2021 22:39, Ed Maste wrote: > > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? +1 for port. I suspect I last used an FTPd in anger sometime in late 90s, and I surmise this is the vast majority. We will have a very small # of users who require FTPd at all, to make their systems useful. An even smaller # of those users will be unable to use FreeBSD if FTPd is only available in a pkg. For those objecting, are you *really* in that latter category -- are these boxes running without a single port/package installed? When 13.0 goes EOL, somewhere after 2025, will you *still* need ftpd in 14.0 base? It seems a reasonable delay, even for a large corporate, to accommodate this change, which can be done in less time than reading this email. Ian's point about preserving paths is a reasonable one, but I had to add an ntpd user in last updates, this would be less difficult. Eugene mentioned the convenience of ftpd in the same sentence as ipsec. I'm willing to bet those systems have ports installed too. If speed is an issue, HTTP supports pipelining, compression, chunked encoding, & parallel connections. I'm not sure ftpd is even in the same game anymore. The more code we hang onto in base, the larger the millstone around our necks when moving forwards. Each individual opportunity to slim down base *in itself* is not significant, but cumulatively they represent gridlock. For each removal or deprecation, please consider, is this worth holding the project back for? # /etc/src.conf WITHOUT_CRUFT=yes A+ Dave From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 00:04:17 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FBEC5BA8F2 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:04:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) Received: from CAN01-QB1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr660087.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.66.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert Cloud Services CA-1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD9r109plz4gZt; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:04:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rmacklem@uoguelph.ca) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=lwctE0clsXaH6hgcC7/BHOjT0Kk7fiqhzA5s9FrnSdXNcaVKxaeBiu4Y1loL60ko9LF64AmZMpToGfbJydmZR89bi3JACx8JlxEwPQ7Qesuyo8qiMoSz7c1hqsXdhRVUTjDqXneIQNL1AQu4w1d1BtLMvqS7PKkbhNnDue/oy+gHXj+XUz5X7Iow+4yDw2NofZjLPM8BvRhpHIur/q0enzTaGnX3GOu+CJXgHWqLFCWmMAGTUflJhSDTY1Axz9UYklRhSJ/inhCOOah9A2NLE/bpf3WYjJQ9d36NuiyvL5ImmDd4I6Hx9mgP1vJmZDZBseyI7+7w6PBxaWCU+zL1Zg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=fuZq6IrYgoMgYnSdCv9SR5yXOSjG6Z5Y5eiL4xXHU3M=; b=ipJE51pb2Ik/SQTI22euGWETTCaiJfVqsc+7iNFjDQyI71R7hxBYmN648YkefaxnNkX7fuMjH1bsOJSmIEKobQ616cenaF18K7Wsr+/Nw6mUXaOThUJ49XLXZXrUETJzanTXVIhzehJXP6RmNImK+I2nDNMyEJHv2GU4yRUJjEVrFXMbpll+NZfxWI8Sguy/x7fgeYg6wp4Iu4JBEQxO5onClupZPd/vk/D6fyIgrw2Ll4kaKlWU52cvxkZ7Ph2r2udLR/HtrzZfERIKtiVpFYM1gMue2lCDVzT6CoJXJxoW90C34nB8a/3e7PyMd6yiXoheehQfPctWIepwk6jf+w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uoguelph.ca; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uoguelph.ca; dkim=pass header.d=uoguelph.ca; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uoguelph.ca; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=fuZq6IrYgoMgYnSdCv9SR5yXOSjG6Z5Y5eiL4xXHU3M=; b=lbb4czFPg5qSiDRbq2+3VJyygQfAMapZ49Yzx5SIce00obaT6OzM3Xy6uWQsbonEDe8YyOjSTAfm2u0U0Bo0RfVXatho98jMXEVGvoRR2q7dmaxzeL73aw+kxoPt07kKNSqcdgs7OZi02UeNQcFoUME3JiEi3CcDN9ZkEIFdMJ4JoEE4RMvm/+Gj7M3kFd/gSAD/pSuKUeFgmm4tqIl6oyT2QeeUAWHj/00ysM1FqaN9k258DA94JTLoC5MFqHpbhKqCvKq7tvUlIrPAmzHniGnPB7CGl23jNABVtazam/epyFON35OU8HSOrLN7rzXVqi0Iozn1fnAnYnBPtPD8wg== Received: from YQXPR0101MB0968.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:c00:19::29) by YQBPR0101MB4179.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10b6:c01:9::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3999.32; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:04:15 +0000 Received: from YQXPR0101MB0968.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::1c05:585a:132a:f08e]) by YQXPR0101MB0968.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::1c05:585a:132a:f08e%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3999.032; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:04:15 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Dave Cottlehuber , FreeBSD Stable CC: Ed Maste Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Thread-Topic: Deprecating base system ftpd? 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: uoguelph.ca X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: YQXPR0101MB0968.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 97fba47f-4ccf-4003-6b92-08d8f7c65999 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Apr 2021 00:04:15.0797 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: be62a12b-2cad-49a1-a5fa-85f4f3156a7d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: wMG6ft7lgmS1snpC95T+nChud+1OXPsxvQbZ7Ha/oaY6OLr9H+7wnr9eDdXnf+fCSFyF6q3NeNQrL9epoXWWfQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: YQBPR0101MB4179 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD9r109plz4gZt X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 00:04:17 -0000 Dave Cottlehuber wrote:=0A= >> On 03/04/2021 22:39, Ed Maste wrote:=0A= >> > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system= =0A= >> > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447=0A= >> > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page.= =0A= >> > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped= =0A= >> > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it= =0A= >> > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address.=0A= >> >=0A= >> > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments?=0A= >=0A= >+1 for port. I suspect I last used an FTPd in anger sometime in late 90s,= =0A= >and I surmise this is the vast majority.=0A= >=0A= >We will have a very small # of users who require FTPd at all, to make thei= r=0A= >systems useful.=0A= And I bet there are not a lot of users that need caesar, fortune, ...=0A= to make their system useful either. If the goal is to strip the system=0A= down, there are lots of stuff not needed in /usr/src.=0A= =0A= >An even smaller # of those users will be unable to use FreeBSD if FTPd is= =0A= >only available in a pkg.=0A= Yep. But it's a bit of a bother, although I can definitely live with one in= =0A= ports.=0A= =0A= >For those objecting, are you *really* in that latter category -- are=0A= >these boxes running without a single port/package installed?=0A= At the moment I have one called "git", plus the dozens of things=0A= it pulls in.=0A= =0A= >When 13.0 goes EOL, somewhere after 2025, will you *still* need ftpd in=0A= >14.0 base? It seems a reasonable delay, even for a large corporate, to=0A= >accommodate this change, which can be done in less time than reading=0A= >this email.=0A= No more or less convenient than now.=0A= =0A= >Ian's point about preserving paths is a reasonable one, but I had to add= =0A= >an ntpd user in last updates, this would be less difficult.=0A= >=0A= >Eugene mentioned the convenience of ftpd in the same sentence as ipsec.=0A= >I'm willing to bet those systems have ports installed too.=0A= >=0A= >If speed is an issue, HTTP supports pipelining, compression, chunked=0A= >encoding, & parallel connections. I'm not sure ftpd is even in the same=0A= >game anymore.=0A= Nope, just easy to move small files around the machines in front of me.=0A= I have no interest in setting up a web server.=0A= I wonder what others find convenient when moving files to/from=0A= Windows?=0A= =0A= >The more code we hang onto in base, the larger the millstone around our=0A= >necks when moving forwards. Each individual opportunity to slim down=0A= >base *in itself* is not significant, but cumulatively they represent=0A= >gridlock.=0A= Maybe they should take "ls /usr/bin", remove the obvious essential=0A= ones and have a survey to determine what else is widely used/needed?=0A= =0A= >For each removal or deprecation, please consider, is this worth holding=0A= >the project back for?=0A= >=0A= ># /etc/src.conf=0A= >WITHOUT_CRUFT=3Dyes=0A= rick=0A= =0A= A+=0A= Dave=0A= _______________________________________________=0A= freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list=0A= https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable=0A= To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= =0A= =0A= From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 00:05:34 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96CD5BB09A for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:05:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daniel@morante.net) Received: from venus.morante.net (venus.morante.net [63.247.147.163]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD9sT0xRXz4gr5 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:05:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from daniel@morante.net) Received: from saturn.morante.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by venus.morante.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A0911F813 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 20:05:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at morante.net Received: from venus.morante.net ([127.0.0.1]) by saturn.morante.com (saturn.morante.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Fuiht9unccmS for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 20:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (my-room.morante.com [192.168.0.2]) by venus.morante.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2EC3E11F805 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 20:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: From: Daniel Morante Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 20:05:17 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms050106070708040501030509" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD9sT0xRXz4gr5 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[morante.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[morante.net,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[63.247.147.163:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30221, ipnet:63.247.144.0/20, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[morante.net:s=default]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[63.247.147.163:from:127.0.2.255]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 00:05:34 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050106070708040501030509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US My vote is for no. Reasoning is simple... at what point does it stop?=C2=A0 By continuously = moving stuff from base to ports, FreeBSD slowly becomes just a Kernel. =F0= =9F=98=89 On 4/3/2021 4:39 PM, Ed Maste wrote: > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" > --------------ms050106070708040501030509 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DJgwggX/MIID56ADAgECAgIQADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBkjELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxEDAO BgNVBAgMB0Zsb3JpZGExDzANBgNVBAcMBk5hcGxlczEpMCcGA1UECgwgVGhlIERhbmllbCBN b3JhbnRlIENvbXBhbnksIEluYy4xGDAWBgNVBAsMD1BhY3kgV29ybGQsIExMQzEbMBkGA1UE AwwSUGFjeSBXb3JsZCBSb290IENBMB4XDTE4MDcwNzE3MzUzMVoXDTI4MDcwNDE3MzUzMVow gYkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRAwDgYDVQQIDAdGbG9yaWRhMSkwJwYDVQQKDCBUaGUgRGFuaWVs IE1vcmFudGUgQ29tcGFueSwgSW5jLjEYMBYGA1UECwwPUGFjeSBXb3JsZCwgTExDMSMwIQYD 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owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 00:44:27 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668075BC159 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:44:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ted@io-tx.com) Received: from io-tx.com (io-tx.com [209.198.147.18]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.io-tx.com", Issuer "AlphaSSL CA - SHA256 - G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDBkL3GpPz4jcP for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 00:44:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ted@io-tx.com) Received: from io-tx.com (io-tx.com [209.198.147.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by io-tx.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 1350iD2Y031034 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:44:13 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ted@io-tx.com) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:44:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Ted Hatfield To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.1 at io-tx.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, KAM_DMARC_STATUS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on io-tx.com X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDBkL3GpPz4jcP X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ted@io-tx.com designates 209.198.147.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ted@io-tx.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.20 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.198.147.16/29]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.198.147.18:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8166, ipnet:209.198.128.0/19, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[io-tx.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.198.147.18:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 00:44:27 -0000 My vote is also for no. I still use it on most of my systems. Easy to configure easy to use. On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Daniel Morante via freebsd-stable wrote: > My vote is for no. > > Reasoning is simple... at what point does it stop?  By continuously moving > stuff from base to ports, FreeBSD slowly becomes just a Kernel. ? > > On 4/3/2021 4:39 PM, Ed Maste wrote: >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >> >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 02:12:36 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714915BE3BC for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 02:12:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from smtp1.bway.net (smtp1.bway.net [216.220.96.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDDh33KW5z4p2J for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 02:12:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from gaseousweiner.sporklab.com (pool-74-102-83-202.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [74.102.83.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: spork@bway.net) by smtp1.bway.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 08F759586B; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B830D3F4-F52E-4A8E-9E31-4F408F2FC571"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? From: Charles Sprickman In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 22:12:32 -0400 Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 639281552.7915339-589d251a25d29f6fd851ae4cff53a416 Message-Id: References: To: Daniel Morante X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDDh33KW5z4p2J X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.70 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:216.220.96.27/32]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bway.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bway.net,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[74.102.83.202:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[216.220.96.27:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8059, ipnet:216.220.96.0/19, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bway.net:s=mail]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[216.220.96.27:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[bway.net:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[216.220.96.27:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 02:12:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B830D3F4-F52E-4A8E-9E31-4F408F2FC571 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 4, 2021, at 8:05 PM, Daniel Morante via freebsd-stable = wrote: >=20 > My vote is for no. >=20 > Reasoning is simple... at what point does it stop? By continuously = moving stuff from base to ports, FreeBSD slowly becomes just a Kernel. = =F0=9F=98=89 That=E2=80=99s a +1 here, both for the =E2=80=9Ckeep it=E2=80=9D and for = the comment above regarding complete OS vs. kernel and a teeny userland. Ideally, we=E2=80=99d modernize ftpd to support TLS. The PITA with ports solutions is you immediate run into the issue of = which of the many ftp daemons is going to fit your needs and not require = some non-trivial amount of configuration. The stock ftpd =E2=80=98just = works=E2=80=99 for local user accounts and has a simple method for = blocking of swaths of users from using it if that sort of restriction is = needed. This reminds me of Apple removing the telnet client. Sure, most people = don=E2=80=99t *need* telnet, but it=E2=80=99s handy to have, both as a = simple test tool and as a way to get into old crufty network gear that = never moved on to ssh. Charles >=20 > On 4/3/2021 4:39 PM, Ed Maste wrote: >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it = dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >>=20 >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B830D3F4-F52E-4A8E-9E31-4F408F2FC571 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEECbwhUg0jlYPK5QaKiZUhnP6GpPYFAmBqchAACgkQiZUhnP6G pPb5WAf+P7DJhkVd57nUehdDoEyzYvf0m9SjvYk68QZosk1vdl2mJ42Zs9hkggZz NgmThfJekAkfXSmyz7fSxjcIXQPr+NE6i8mjmhZ+Tu91gOOh9sMDNoSbVSj5Zy7Y p2NqulbG3rr6u+ksyBV11MQcEBIEya8F9kaYA8O/JWkFCh37TSBzNZjfYaMcEik8 C1jRK5HIgRydbLCRe2YaaIWy0r1Us+En+xRNpovpC3zjacHLdGCSLYe3eUXsqZ02 HiyXloShQ0eYr98Fz+okl+K4s3glaWCdG49gp85GdWm0roVkNEklT+yvyOTSNbxa RuH17YFQWgyU5v4HmKa5jeG91rWVVQ== =VU63 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B830D3F4-F52E-4A8E-9E31-4F408F2FC571-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 02:38:28 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9095BEB20 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 02:38:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDFFw48p0z4qN3; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 02:38:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id y5so10345939qkl.9; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:38:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1nmhHf0tIN6m3v6luPeVzMbaQqOWE1RhIRqyGawGGng=; b=Xw+BO4uJneJ/52mUaB6juIxhLCM3Ow8J2KBCRoyaSVX+l198LEJCCo0Bd3hUKWCPqe stQvdFzVv26jvt6ozHptX+vKs9nANR8753+jdp2ssybwpeow+b0USKtBkF1/nmyNaRPl rMAD/PUeKup7jDGrUdTpTmSpZxwMJbtJyq9VaYTtXI/oA6nm+RBm8hfCE+JeA8kHLA51 STjS8cCyOw3ozeO7C9DPq+vYc0mQONT8K0ybyFPzwAgEKCDtSVozSCbHMGgdFysL3b/l Jo09c39LR9gaemcPz5eFWgOS30+QeCyqUyrtO4OFkAAoIGj0qYPmYpxnAkNRsuBfXjpP wqXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1nmhHf0tIN6m3v6luPeVzMbaQqOWE1RhIRqyGawGGng=; b=QsCfx2qySBonSlVUBWVI23Xuhhopp2g5OT0LaaRpDYT+/F7c4U/nvyL6Vn8DaAUl4s ioL93jvCByEhX6yGBF3NaAtOSPa2VaSiWuFoxQGzBiCTHgORn4PzJ8wPmdUfp47xB/qQ B4eB1PTi51E72F1SR81wcbOCe55+FRx5y6JQetQxEq/G0EE5GUtBzH24nIm4sqPpwUr5 720qa4Z2ksqGZTlnhhdCfmUMy6qv8gYBMlSGTQGwd5YpoQQgH4o3+ADdxa0rLMhJ5NXb 0r7C1iGDSTaDf8bfRosn4mVlMXytgJkF/0+bNwYcMOFlHEKD1W1E8X/PqeuivNoy0jsN yKgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532q6OqFwY2gVTBPQml7RTBsaprrRmWoCF8MSV5PnoaNTYZBe4NE o5hLBgru1r8GGg/HI3GMxrSKk18ZJuQcv9CXnj4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVgOfqReWWpIHm3ZgF4gjBSfLIWIeZPCm5MZ2bHpZBDC+uPE7U/zfEGvjvuOC81QGNFB+3qeSzUFjJly0UdAw= X-Received: by 2002:a37:392:: with SMTP id 140mr22395002qkd.236.1617590307499; Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:38:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> In-Reply-To: From: Freddie Cash Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:38:15 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Rick Macklem Cc: Dave Cottlehuber , FreeBSD Stable , Ed Maste X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDFFw48p0z4qN3 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 02:38:28 -0000 On Sun., Apr. 4, 2021, 5:04 p.m. Rick Macklem, wrote: > > I wonder what others find convenient when moving files to/from > Windows? > SCP works beautifully for transferring files to/from Windows stations. Haven't needed FTP support for about a decade now at $WORK and at home. SSH has quickly become the ubiquitous replacement for FTP. Windows 10 even comes with a native OpenSSH client these days (along with the version that comes with WSL). As for ftpd being in base, as a user of FreeBSD (not a developer) I'm ok with it moving to ports or disappearing completely. So long as fetch(8) supports FTP for connecting to remote FTP servers. Cheers, Freddie Typos due to smartphone keyboard. > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 04:29:29 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FD15C0E72 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 04:29:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDHk13y93z3Cqr for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 04:29:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 1354T4iq059441 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 5 Apr 2021 04:29:07 GMT (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: dch@skunkwerks.at Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eugen@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 1354T0E7000774; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:29:00 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Dave Cottlehuber , FreeBSD Stable References: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> From: Eugene Grosbein X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <606A920C.8030502@grosbein.net> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:29:00 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DATE_IN_FUTURE_48_96, LOCAL_FROM,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_FAIL,SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 2.2 DATE_IN_FUTURE_48_96 Date: is 48 to 96 hours after Received: * date * 0.0 SPF_FAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (fail) * [SPF failed: Please see http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom; id=eugen%40grosbein.net; ip=2a03%3A3100%3Ac%3A13%3A%3A5; r=hz.grosbein.net] * 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains * -0.0 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDHk13y93z3Cqr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 04:29:30 -0000 On 05.04.2021 06:25, Dave Cottlehuber wrote: > Eugene mentioned the convenience of ftpd in the same sentence as ipsec. > I'm willing to bet those systems have ports installed too. Ports/packages are great but they are not replacement for solid operating system with bundled software tested and proven with time. > If speed is an issue, HTTP supports pipelining, compression, chunked > encoding, & parallel connections. I'm not sure ftpd is even in the same > game anymore. Compression and various encodings of raw data are not good for speed. sendfile(2) system call used by ftpd to send raw data is good for speed. Unlimited CPU power should not be assumed. > The more code we hang onto in base, the larger the millstone around our > necks when moving forwards. Each individual opportunity to slim down > base *in itself* is not significant, but cumulatively they represent > gridlock. > > For each removal or deprecation, please consider, is this worth holding > the project back for? Our ftpd code does not hold the project back in any way. It's here, it works, it's very good. High quality bundled software is what we love FreeBSD for. Unfortunately, ports tend to rot more quick due to some known reasons. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 21:38:44 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B77A5B68EA for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 21:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 010001789ed2e01b-91ea9e3f-a6be-41f5-be39-28dd0e081676-000000@amazonses.com) Received: from a8-176.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-176.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD6c40sFCz4WPM for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 21:38:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 010001789ed2e01b-91ea9e3f-a6be-41f5-be39-28dd0e081676-000000@amazonses.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=dqtolf56kk3wpt62c3jnwboqvr7iedax; d=tarsnap.com; t=1617572323; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; bh=HFJT6BTICXB72FeJSFwpDXenlzZWwF0+U7agBTfNgeU=; b=UybD653IoRx0V/nhZwyoLMpswB7zs5aJ/ezzIdpq/2WmUGvECml0N60kqz13X+P8 qvRrNQ77db0KeNnWmTHiAA45eUtt8vbKprsl+oXHNPrLKgEQ7S/Sl4JGSLbUO2R2J6g hfhTHt59SZJNqmVUXUiHC7GjRFWT3wm6yyH7YBAc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=ug7nbtf4gccmlpwj322ax3p6ow6yfsug; d=amazonses.com; t=1617572323; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Feedback-ID; bh=HFJT6BTICXB72FeJSFwpDXenlzZWwF0+U7agBTfNgeU=; b=WD1LX5l+hMPgWeCruE+jt9xIK1MWHbAufxiP1lGc6MJ9mwmWRZV5Ugo02bWUGbFz IpwiBufQQxU+w0El74B69l7/5GOE1ZsxRltmt8I7YN8u2whaKiSwO90ePimG35ZsSUw Uv+efn5Y2LqYXbVtggOqeoYVVauYzK62TlqNjMgQ= Subject: Re: FreeBSD 13.0-RC5 Now Available To: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Release Engineering Team Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT , FreeBSD , freebsd-snapshots@freebsd.org References: <20210403153446.GL92054@FreeBSD.org> From: Colin Percival Message-ID: <010001789ed2e01b-91ea9e3f-a6be-41f5-be39-28dd0e081676-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2021 21:38:43 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SES-Outgoing: 2021.04.04-54.240.8.176 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.Lv9FVjaNvvR5llaqfLoOVbo2VxOELl7cjN0AOyXnPlk=:AmazonSES X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD6c40sFCz4WPM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 07:15:00 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 21:38:44 -0000 On 4/4/21 1:50 PM, Alan Somers wrote: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 9:34 AM Glen Barber > wrote: > > The fifth RC build of the 13.0-RELEASE release cycle is now available. > > In the past, making these releases required pushing updates to > https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base/user/cperciva/freebsd-update-build/ . Historically, we often made changes directly on the update builders and then brought the svn tree back into sync later. > However, that repo is read-only now. I assume that it's been gitified, but > I can't find the new location. Where is it? I think the freebsd-update build code might be homeless right now. I know I have seen emails mentioning that it needs to land somewhere but I don't recall any decision being reached. -- Colin Percival Security Officer Emeritus, FreeBSD | The power to serve Founder, Tarsnap | www.tarsnap.com | Online backups for the truly paranoid From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 12:10:26 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D245B6065 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:10:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ruben@verweg.com) Received: from erg.verweg.com (erg.verweg.com [IPv6:2a02:898:96::5e8e:f508]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDTxs3Msjz4RmQ for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:10:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ruben@verweg.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 erg.verweg.com (unknown-jobid) Received: from [IPv6:2a10:3781:3e9:1:4ab:c743:bc8b:a88b] ([IPv6:2a10:3781:3e9:1:4ab:c743:bc8b:a88b]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.verweg.com (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 135CAGXw056377 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:10:16 GMT (envelope-from ruben@verweg.com) From: Ruben van Staveren Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5BCF84FF-F2D6-487C-9A6D-C2A114E353E7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:10:09 +0200 References: To: freebsd-stable stable In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <38DE0531-1572-43DD-BA53-ECB3EF52FA3F@verweg.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDTxs3Msjz4RmQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.60 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[verweg.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[verweg.com,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a02:898:96::5e8e:f508:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8283, ipnet:2a02:898::/32, country:NL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[verweg.com:s=verweg]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a02:898:96::5e8e:f508:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:10:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5BCF84FF-F2D6-487C-9A6D-C2A114E353E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 3 Apr 2021, at 22:39, Ed Maste wrote: >=20 > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >=20 > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? Make it a port It is time to deprecate ftp altogether, and any other protocols that = embed protocol information in layer 7, thus hurting any #IPv6 migration = and deployment technology (SIIT-DC e.g). Hopefully the IETF can put up a deprecation notice, just as was done for = e.g. TLS 1.0. Then we move onward to the self regulating capacity of the community, = warning each other on =E2=80=9Cyou have ftp=E2=80=9D running. ftp, a protocol not using TLS protection but by adding it a netadmin = needs to manage the port range in their firewalls too because clients = behind nat can=E2=80=99t use passive mode with TLS as NAT can=E2=80=99t = map things around =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF It is not worth the time and the hassle. Keep FTP(s) for legacy and = internal, serve anyone else with https Best Regards, Ruben --Apple-Mail=_5BCF84FF-F2D6-487C-9A6D-C2A114E353E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBAgAdFiEEJ5YXTZtFY5bgSLwXiG9r7NR3qT8FAmBq/iEACgkQiG9r7NR3 qT8OdA//bLLHtBxR3uNLa4Mzy9Dx9NVXEZuPJPvuqYusOuto15nOwHBSLAOEzFVM +vOzxwDl8/Z54o2sDPwSHBowbwHuSR3sNBAWQM9jpeM9VEnYRVIR4wiAxiWO9CyB 7sYtQkHd7eZ7gsxWUjcezWq2u6ct28Nx5bXFJfJcKH6Z9Dp3XTK/vT/xII3qIUaU oLykDRw1fCkVLbqL76l8SPh9npDYahNelsuyCr5iGPhEMABC/sI4YA8d7lKv+B7W wU/4I+8zAebLsVotQjI9Ppf+x+omrTVjUi9ZCCPzbmXhQw6qUGoKexD2KRuPcIQp ChVXBzGOtY/oNVyRze/SqsT8mYjrSQ3M8swdbutkX1N1U5W+Fi6DBSNnX959pPgc u9ePYeZXprHbmmVHf57mVnU9v3g4FeCiov2rS977j6XG+xXg4KD5KzyLcYV6pl59 DJn8Qp8k1reM/Mea9WbCmG4HKv/MDZqOFuF/xPUMs+rOYTuQeL6lrSNkHJS5ADAO xeOz4zHvpuuxbroIJktahLiUNbKHdQItNcsg3nScLwXQ4JnX4VjavxGj6mx2aMAA mqzBdAc+/0y1ImYDT0tCiJxcGwskv8ymQx4ILbTMbb3IgryxMx6XjjLgYkeIhZhy wj9qakaHFSaHXzV80GKeioVf4b9KeFTrOLEA6u4obyhTBXUxxXE= =dXRj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_5BCF84FF-F2D6-487C-9A6D-C2A114E353E7-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 12:58:04 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9469E5B7479 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:58:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-f46.google.com (mail-ot1-f46.google.com [209.85.210.46]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDW0q4jBHz4Vfh for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:58:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-f46.google.com with SMTP id k14-20020a9d7dce0000b02901b866632f29so11285121otn.1 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 05:58:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IYt0GHnRS8jhK9NLCZtv75iLTapOSRb61sWM6okhBko=; b=LtD1YswJxJuPK1p04DvIodx95omumKyOSCA9WcCNGd57010xDGGAEJd4nMAfBPxbNY qtjIqohNHbnPRubHC0mHWZ5ddaDtCCjXx4aT0zdO3QQF/SNW9nF43UP9vc3AuZsKtePU oZvV7bbR3Z5cRtd/1mrmLGTkYeHYeiuiL1MhctUoynkU0rZO+HIES8vuF0OB5RgEn8ui 1qHQVMAWlnFjI5bwOdniuGsAorlNW2lb1+SvKutCUx7B90+FntBFywadVo0TA3AluC5A kUgk8icY/EedYcxgPSvStujo0QpS09DEZ+qmznqXFHZfkCUD6shMrxUfDfOwoqQJi4Zu czpA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5337JSi+je6jWGjqepL0i5YnW37vPFBXcUI15+i529Ms3/CD80V2 pe7kvdNDIJx2n1CV8t8vT9JodBhWoa7nUU6RbiBvKhd5z2k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVom6cVkQI3DVusN2WOg2k8Z8SMIvbpXTVmHhH3gwcvcJpsHBg6kFhe7dJ9D/3uyuRF8BOdheLuaJt2PxeGV0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:1af6:: with SMTP id c22mr21351877otd.291.1617627482418; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 05:58:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> <606A920C.8030502@grosbein.net> In-Reply-To: <606A920C.8030502@grosbein.net> From: Alan Somers Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 06:57:51 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Eugene Grosbein Cc: Dave Cottlehuber , FreeBSD Stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDW0q4jBHz4Vfh X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of asomers@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=asomers@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[209.85.210.46:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.210.46:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[asomers]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.210.46:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.210.46:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:58:04 -0000 On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 10:29 PM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > On 05.04.2021 06:25, Dave Cottlehuber wrote: > > > Eugene mentioned the convenience of ftpd in the same sentence as ipsec. > > I'm willing to bet those systems have ports installed too. > > Ports/packages are great but they are not replacement for solid operating > system > with bundled software tested and proven with time. > > > If speed is an issue, HTTP supports pipelining, compression, chunked > > encoding, & parallel connections. I'm not sure ftpd is even in the same > > game anymore. > > Compression and various encodings of raw data are not good for speed. > sendfile(2) system call used by ftpd to send raw data is good for speed. > Unlimited CPU power should not be assumed. > > > The more code we hang onto in base, the larger the millstone around our > > necks when moving forwards. Each individual opportunity to slim down > > base *in itself* is not significant, but cumulatively they represent > > gridlock. > > > > For each removal or deprecation, please consider, is this worth holding > > the project back for? > > Our ftpd code does not hold the project back in any way. It's here, it > works, it's very good. > > High quality bundled software is what we love FreeBSD for. > Unfortunately, ports tend to rot more quick due to some known reasons. > I wouldn't say that anything is "very good" when it has no test suite whatsoever. If you want to help, you could write one. You might take a look at libexec/tftpd/tests/ to get started. -Alan From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 14:00:14 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FAE95BA05B for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:00:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (plan-b.pwste.edu.pl [IPv6:2001:678:618::40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "plan-b.pwste.edu.pl", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDXNY0thYz4bvG for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:00:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from fomalhaut.potoki.eu (dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 135E03R8072046 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:00:03 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; s=plan-b-mailer; t=1617631203; bh=OJcLlIBLmA2DBcTXKYfUSMGPgTmOYkVLpoWvKHCXDrU=; h=To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=L+Gthqi9o0zWuayT+NcSFzOuUmaMkFPfsRqgmVdn20mNw3Z1SQe9bIHO0FHCZhoPN OlmQ0zP/H8xYe4h0kcC3+YWlz9oNy1GDuH2LTcL7rYgKrLSdyxt8HKvudYIQglVKyI uFJZwco8XCafK5HVy+3p+gdQBMRGdXNpoVvzrPGbglW4RfNOGcGhLoaT/uE79/nKMp b0Dys9YATuFnuREgvYVHylWOd0Zty6S2zJPLZPuQkIEhHxLOlmQzAkGVwZz/C0dYOo hqZxWTIThOU0WbtszSDFK0ExOZu5LZUm0XoNC3VNQwFBpjNlO2YphC6Y0fA/WMrvmg dXRo3lwp8152w== X-Authentication-Warning: plan-b.pwste.edu.pl: Host dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50] claimed to be fomalhaut.potoki.eu To: Ruben van Staveren , freebsd-stable stable References: <38DE0531-1572-43DD-BA53-ECB3EF52FA3F@verweg.com> From: Marek Zarychta Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Message-ID: <500f2fa0-87cc-07cc-30c1-e006f035bd30@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:00:01 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <38DE0531-1572-43DD-BA53-ECB3EF52FA3F@verweg.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3dA5w5GrmbYCdVG5dbgwxjmCEXcXBdTIK" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDXNY0thYz4bvG X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl header.s=plan-b-mailer header.b=L+Gthqi9; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl has no SPF policy when checking 2001:678:618::40) smtp.mailfrom=zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.90 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2001:678:618::40:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:206006, ipnet:2001:678:618::/48, country:PL]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[plan-b.pwste.edu.pl:s=plan-b-mailer]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[pwste.edu.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/mixed,text/plain]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2001:678:618::40:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:00:14 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --3dA5w5GrmbYCdVG5dbgwxjmCEXcXBdTIK Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="1NYJNEiHC7z25xUw5ogBTW4YdBp1WKUpM"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marek Zarychta To: Ruben van Staveren , freebsd-stable stable Message-ID: <500f2fa0-87cc-07cc-30c1-e006f035bd30@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl> Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? References: <38DE0531-1572-43DD-BA53-ECB3EF52FA3F@verweg.com> In-Reply-To: <38DE0531-1572-43DD-BA53-ECB3EF52FA3F@verweg.com> --1NYJNEiHC7z25xUw5ogBTW4YdBp1WKUpM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable W dniu 05.04.2021 o=C2=A014:10, Ruben van Staveren via freebsd-stable pis= ze: >=20 >=20 >> On 3 Apr 2021, at 22:39, Ed Maste wrote: >> >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped= >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >> >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >=20 > Make it a port >=20 >=20 > It is time to deprecate ftp altogether, and any other protocols that em= bed protocol information in layer 7, thus hurting any #IPv6 migration and=20 deployment technology (SIIT-DC e.g). How would FTP protocol hurt IPv6 deployment? Some transition IPv4 --> IPv6 techniques will not be able to support it the same way NAT does hardly cope with FTP protocol. The whole problem looks completely different. FTP is an ancient protocol where the active mode works fine only when both ends are directly reachable, so the IPv6 protocol used on both ends can make the FTP protocol working in active mode again. > Hopefully the IETF can put up a deprecation notice, just as was done fo= r e.g. TLS 1.0. > Then we move onward to the self regulating capacity of the community, w= arning each other on =E2=80=9Cyou have ftp=E2=80=9D running. >=20 TLS was to provide security, but TLS 1.0 became considered not secure enough at some point, the same happened to SSH1 which is no more trusted. Ancient protocols _do_ exist and probably neither GOPHER nor FTP will become deprecated as network protocols. > ftp, a protocol not using TLS protection but by adding it a netadmin ne= eds to manage the port range in their firewalls too because clients behin= d nat can=E2=80=99t use passive mode with TLS as NAT can=E2=80=99t map th= ings around =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF >=20 > It is not worth the time and the hassle. Keep FTP(s) for legacy and int= ernal, serve anyone else with https There are _many_ devices, which can download files only with FTP or TFTP protocols. Uploading files with HTTP or HTTPS is impossible, only SCP sometimes work, but older network equipment usually doesn't support new ciphers and using SSH/SCP seems to be painful sometimes. Some protocols are insecure and simplistic from the early design. Forcing FTP, TFTP or TELNET ban would lead to more frustration of sysadmins only. 16 years ago insecure from the design DNS gained security support via DNSSEC. Please consider why DNSSEC is not and likely will soon not be widely deployed. This was an off-topic note, but probably in place. With kind regards, --=20 Marek Zarychta --1NYJNEiHC7z25xUw5ogBTW4YdBp1WKUpM-- --3dA5w5GrmbYCdVG5dbgwxjmCEXcXBdTIK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsB5BAABCAAjFiEEMOqvKm6wKvS1/ZeCdZ/s//1SjSwFAmBrF+EFAwAAAAAACgkQdZ/s//1SjSzQ dAf+KjTkKdRSVRcsSXkqqJ/vrYuFpGfiyzqVZla5zSzm9ZkM2qMeJUDBl6bArt1jetIPbNSEUTYO aN0gZFWRIpM2xmFsm3eHvprqlOeV1i2hUGDbaucWMiMmqnrKqj146i2Co5mXx+LIX/UNJ00KoaBG XYoQwb8fot7YSALRa38b2l/aSAAIm72ZDGickg7ZviN2F948YGhpR3aUV9MwMhemUpHt6sUgdAIf 6SNpDQhdGZb9dhaObltDD9IslcuNalYWxMBT+neVub+uJh/BZfJG1nyRaKe+CqQhL2whqfSEryEZ jPFOYbI0S/uLBo+8OMpx1c0tDGNMLhe+SSx+g4MIRw== =ZS2S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3dA5w5GrmbYCdVG5dbgwxjmCEXcXBdTIK-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 14:45:06 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4E85BB7DC for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:45:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDYNK3bY1z4g49; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:45:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.66.148.124]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id TQTNlr4vEeHr9TQTOlxvOW; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 08:45:03 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=Yq/K+6UX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=606b226f a=Cwc3rblV8FOMdVN/wOAqyQ==:117 a=Cwc3rblV8FOMdVN/wOAqyQ==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=3YhXtTcJ-WEA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=Lng4QwBR5uOYiKpvOFsA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C859DDD; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 135EixF6025306; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 07:44:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Ed Maste cc: freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Ed Maste message dated "Sat, 03 Apr 2021 16:39:48 -0400." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 07:44:59 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfC4YtaKZic5guWCD8i4kStv0r+V7Oc7+HEsImRempO77vTFt5smZg+wxyiH+pUuWqYL9f9ae7ksSKoi0CEGmKiNHmFdxMYvtYLM3X8pUZRMdJ4iFm9Zq CTuWfZnf95et/ogUIp1hAD38+sYSIZbZivR3DYwOKxgH7mTxk0/hSEVTXvmfjAsNWjXxQbnb4XDPWkHSxRMeWzTBuRnP5tLNagAy5fsTolc7kiSsy9eiIMUG kUzNv/7wq63U/VeE35mKMw== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDYNK3bY1z4g49 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cy.schubert@cschubert.com has no SPF policy when checking 64.59.134.12) smtp.mailfrom=cy.schubert@cschubert.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.30 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[64.59.134.12:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[70.66.148.124:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[64.59.134.12:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cschubert.com: no valid DMARC record]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[64.59.134.12:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.59.134.12:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:45:06 -0000 In message , Ed Maste writes: > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: - remove ftp(1) - remove ftpd(8) - remove telnet(1) - remove telnetd(8) - remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all use https://. - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS traffic? > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? I've started working on splitting ftp and ftpd into an external git repo. The problem I've encountered is that though only ftp and ftpd are left the resultant repo is still 1.2 GB. If my last attempt fails, there is a choice between a 1.2 GB repo and burning ftp forever then the choice is clear: burn it forever. Adding the following as an option: Also note that the tnftp ports are the NetBSD ftp and ftpd. The FreeBSD ftp and ftpd are simply copies of tnftp and tnfpd. Would it make more sense to share our customizations with NetBSD and we simply reply on NetBSD for the client and server in our ports? This last option might be simpler than creating a port. Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 14:57:15 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD0C5BBE37 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:57:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-f42.google.com (mail-ot1-f42.google.com [209.85.210.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDYfM0KMTz4gqy; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:57:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-f42.google.com with SMTP id c24-20020a9d6c980000b02902662e210895so11102000otr.9; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 07:57:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RU98B4EcQrfZFk358NAHXQtqI4e7o12IuW70qfBIZXo=; b=nUxjHup/HpitkN68FEeXSWnxpcN9iJUi+y22g84VoFQZZDofg4pzfctlCTKnOveAZN jXd/r0YGnrOXsNfHeOagMVUrRjNgOlJ1H87nTwKvMy37/45WKmVLNJ4rTooI9RCPx3Cf bOqkvP7GmQMWohDnLmKKBDIAxISt4u1tekFBCFQ2YTB9wpU/a96e3+628CQLbt2A6/fy a4OCNZtqkOZE49qh5jUXrY2p824hn+/sEIqazTx4k2T4E8pW+akKMU+ovESVQMmXFaEr mQ3WfYqzz0S8FgQPhXfNgb4T1PIhdbxpGyX9I3rl4VLvDHpde9g8cEl0RfTtnuo1qta7 rxqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532kw9sCLhVeOjJNtvROLnNLnlAYUOgd9/jC4ZWog9JGeQ06LqIb Hub5czjK2ksgisHizvCotxN14N5VZpEmbyrpOw0YH2vl X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwo5mhGQJrU3zUZho57HjqslHTcHdQhoBTqctcahRbdJYJ9DwiUeaIsk9Zj4u2tu5OWBf37Yc2DtkgA0c29xWU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:148c:: with SMTP id s12mr23423957otq.251.1617634633927; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Alan Somers Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 08:57:02 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Cy Schubert Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDYfM0KMTz4gqy X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of asomers@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=asomers@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[asomers]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.210.42:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:57:16 -0000 On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:45 AM Cy Schubert wrote: > In message > om> > , Ed Maste writes: > > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > - remove ftp(1) > - remove ftpd(8) > - remove telnet(1) > - remove telnetd(8) > - remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > use https://. > Whoa there! You can't remove ftp and http from libfetch, because FreeBSD doesn't control all of the servers that our users need to fetch from. Not even close. > - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > traffic? > > > > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > I've started working on splitting ftp and ftpd into an external git repo. > The problem I've encountered is that though only ftp and ftpd are left the > resultant repo is still 1.2 GB. If my last attempt fails, there is a > choice > between a 1.2 GB repo and burning ftp forever then the choice is clear: > burn it forever. > > Adding the following as an option: > > Also note that the tnftp ports are the NetBSD ftp and ftpd. The FreeBSD > ftp > and ftpd are simply copies of tnftp and tnfpd. Would it make more sense to > share our customizations with NetBSD and we simply reply on NetBSD for the > client and server in our ports? This last option might be simpler than > creating a port. > Maybe, but that would be an impediment to adding Capsicum support. > > Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and > rely > on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that > we > have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. > > I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. > tftpd is still vitally important for PXE booting. And unencrypted NFS will certainly live on past 2025. -Alan From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 15:28:13 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E780F5BCAC3 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:28:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: from bizet.nethelp.no (bizet.nethelp.no [195.1.209.33]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDZL46jBsz4jX9; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:28:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sthaug@nethelp.no) Received: from localhost (bizet.nethelp.no [IPv6:2001:8c0:9e04:500::1]) by bizet.nethelp.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8B6E6079; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:28:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 17:28:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20210405.172809.200436441.sthaug@nethelp.no> To: Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com Cc: emaste@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? From: sthaug@nethelp.no In-Reply-To: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 26 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDZL46jBsz4jX9 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of sthaug@nethelp.no designates 195.1.209.33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sthaug@nethelp.no X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.10 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[195.1.209.33:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nethelp.no]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[195.1.209.33:from]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2116, ipnet:195.1.0.0/16, country:NO]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 15:28:14 -0000 >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > - remove ftp(1) > - remove ftpd(8) > - remove telnet(1) > - remove telnetd(8) My preference would be to leave those four in the system. However, I can live with removal, as long as they are available as ports. > - remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > use https://. Please don't. There is still a lot of content not available over https (and quite a few web sites with only "readonly" type content). Removal of ftp:// and http:// from libfetch simply means I'll have to install wget instead - and we're getting ever close to FreeBSD being only a kernel. > - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > traffic? Because I trust my (European) ISP significantly more than I trust big US companies? Yes, I have a pretty good idea what Cloudflare, Google etc have said about the queries they receive. I still don't see a reason to trust them, given their actions in other areas. Bert Hubert has written much better then I can about moving everything to DoH/DoT: https://blog.powerdns.com/2019/09/25/centralised-doh-is-bad-for-privacy-in-2019-and-beyond/ Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sthaug@nethelp.no From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 15:57:34 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93C6F5BD5EB for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:57:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lev@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDZzy3kWkz4lwB; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:57:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lev@FreeBSD.org) Received: from onlyone.not-for.work (onlyone.not-for.work [148.251.9.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: lev/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5360E24EB; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:57:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lev@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [192.168.134.16] (unknown [94.19.224.8]) (Authenticated sender: lev@serebryakov.spb.ru) by onlyone.not-for.work (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 62B5D124C5; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:57:32 +0300 (MSK) Reply-To: lev@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Cy Schubert Cc: freebsd-stable stable References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> From: Lev Serebryakov Organization: FreeBSD Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:57:31 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 15:57:34 -0000 On 05.04.2021 17:44, Cy Schubert wrote: > - remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > use https://. Please, explain how to setup simple sever which allows upload and on-server file management with https ;-) I know letters "WebDAV", but I don't know any ftp-like client for it. And server is apache24, which is much more huge security target than simple ftpd. Even `sftp` is ugly. > - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > traffic? As soon as FreeBSD will include in *base* system DoH/DoT recursive server (as it includes unbound for simple DNS now). I don't understand why should I trust "centralized" DoH services. Do we want to import libnghttp2 to base for this? -- // Lev Serebryakov From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 16:01:02 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A09D5BDBC3 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:01:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) Received: from orthanc.ca (orthanc.ca [208.79.93.154]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "orthanc.ca", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDb3x29NQz4m13 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:01:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) Received: from orthanc.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ca (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 80567892; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:00:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)" To: Ruben van Staveren cc: freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-reply-to: <38DE0531-1572-43DD-BA53-ECB3EF52FA3F@verweg.com> References: <38DE0531-1572-43DD-BA53-ECB3EF52FA3F@verweg.com> Comments: In-reply-to Ruben van Staveren via freebsd-stable message dated "Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:10:09 +0200." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <39796.1617638454.1@orthanc.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 09:00:54 -0700 Message-ID: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDb3x29NQz4m13 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lyndon@orthanc.ca designates 208.79.93.154 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lyndon@orthanc.ca X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.68 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[208.79.93.154:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:208.79.93.154]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[orthanc.ca]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.62)[0.622]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[208.79.93.154:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25795, ipnet:208.79.88.0/21, country:US]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 16:01:02 -0000 Ruben van Staveren via freebsd-stable writes: > It is time to deprecate ftp altogether, and any other protocols that = > embed protocol information in layer 7, thus hurting any #IPv6 migration = > and deployment technology (SIIT-DC e.g). > ftp, a protocol not using TLS protection [...] You seem to be a couple of decades behind the times. RFC4217 (Securing FTP with TLS) was published on 2005. IPv6 suopport dates back to 1998 in RFC 2428 (FTP Extensions for IPv6 and NATs). It would be nice if the base system ftpd grew TLS support. OpenBSD has had this for years. --lyndon From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 16:37:14 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79CC45BF215 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:37:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.139]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDbsk0SGyz4pxK; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:37:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.66.148.124]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id TSDsle2iPnRGtTSDvloSZu; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 10:37:11 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=cagXElPM c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=606b3cb7 a=Cwc3rblV8FOMdVN/wOAqyQ==:117 a=Cwc3rblV8FOMdVN/wOAqyQ==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=3YhXtTcJ-WEA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=EY5w6Fi1Q-UOc3402HMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9086EC8; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 135Gb5wK019941; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202104051637.135Gb5wK019941@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Alan Somers cc: Cy Schubert , Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-reply-to: References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> Comments: In-reply-to Alan Somers message dated "Mon, 05 Apr 2021 08:57:02 -0600." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 09:37:05 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfHUvWRf254fEaQCyarFzOdVvnNJf685TAZeaY7Agt95O68iscH1o4xDMngyQEtYRzT+n1OkED3WSieAaDePYFmXnf3vBDBWr88znQXwNgs2M0sbaYQ74 0aLS8+JFZ09IOZjpSmg+ICDeixaa+l3WFbpEG7mRVU8bSI8w41+9HgfZR3vVfTRzSFeS3/wU5nftzQe0VDoR+P7e3CAulsgoKGRtyd5Gu5PK11huodfOJKMD IsIsWIMyw7+YortE0MZfKVQ4QkEPdtIolrstMJA5G5s= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDbsk0SGyz4pxK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 16:37:14 -0000 In message , Alan Somers writes: > --000000000000bb4fba05bf3ae99f > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:45 AM Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > In message > > > om> > > , Ed Maste writes: > > > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > > > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > > > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > > > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > > > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > > > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > > > I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > > > - remove ftp(1) > > - remove ftpd(8) > > - remove telnet(1) > > - remove telnetd(8) > > - remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > > use https://. > > > > Whoa there! You can't remove ftp and http from libfetch, because FreeBSD > doesn't control all of the servers that our users need to fetch from. Not > even close. > > > > - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > > traffic? > > > > > > > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > > > I've started working on splitting ftp and ftpd into an external git repo. > > The problem I've encountered is that though only ftp and ftpd are left the > > resultant repo is still 1.2 GB. If my last attempt fails, there is a > > choice > > between a 1.2 GB repo and burning ftp forever then the choice is clear: > > burn it forever. > > > > Adding the following as an option: > > > > Also note that the tnftp ports are the NetBSD ftp and ftpd. The FreeBSD > > ftp > > and ftpd are simply copies of tnftp and tnfpd. Would it make more sense to > > share our customizations with NetBSD and we simply reply on NetBSD for the > > client and server in our ports? This last option might be simpler than > > creating a port. > > > > Maybe, but that would be an impediment to adding Capsicum support. If they accept #ifdef'd Capsicum patches, great! Otherwise we'd need to support a port for a period of time. > > > > > > Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and > > rely > > on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > > last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > > FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > > passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > > system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that > > we > > have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. > > > > I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > > protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. > > > > tftpd is still vitally important for PXE booting. And unencrypted NFS will > certainly live on past 2025. Sadly yes but I'm of the opinion we should do as much as we can with the low hanging fruit. I doubt there will be a replacement or enhancement for tftp. Until the IETF NFSv4 TLS draft has been widely accepted and implemented across all platforms we will need to live with unencrypted NFS for a while. I'm hopful. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 16:40:36 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B7A5BF2D8 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:40:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from merlyn@geeks.org) Received: from mail.geeks.org (mail.geeks.org [IPv6:2001:4980:3333:1::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDbxb2PwNz4q4f for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:40:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from merlyn@geeks.org) Received: from mail.geeks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by after-clamsmtpd.geeks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5350C334 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:40:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mail.geeks.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id D172DC380; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:40:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:40:26 -0500 From: Doug McIntyre To: freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? 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This is 2021 and we should all > > use https://. > Please, explain how to setup simple sever which allows upload and on-server file management with https ;-) > > I know letters "WebDAV", but I don't know any ftp-like client for it. And server is apache24, which is much more huge security target than simple ftpd. WebDAV is not simple, is not straight forward to use, and is not a FTP like setup for HTTP. I'd agree that libfetch requires ftp: and http: methods in it. The server set somebody runs may allow only modern stuff in it, but my network has items in it that only support the old stuff that can't be upgraded short of a forklift upgrade. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 16:46:23 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949005BFA56 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:46:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rblayzor.bulk@inoc.net) Received: from cp1.c0.inoc.net (cp1.c0.inoc.net [64.246.141.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDc4G5Ydqz4qmv for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:46:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rblayzor.bulk@inoc.net) Received: from [2607:f058:11:a:3404:fca3:321:c593] (port=63040 helo=Void.local) by cp1.c0.inoc.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1lTSMi-0006bK-Dd for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 16:46:16 +0000 Subject: Re: FreeBSD 13.0-RC5 Now Available To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <17D378F3-ACDA-47C5-B7EC-FB31535EB81E@freebsd.org> From: Robert Blayzor Message-ID: <28d654fb-3d73-57ed-4362-5d3294d0204e@inoc.net> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 12:46:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <17D378F3-ACDA-47C5-B7EC-FB31535EB81E@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cp1.c0.inoc.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - inoc.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cp1.c0.inoc.net: authenticated_id: rblayzor@inoc.net X-Authenticated-Sender: cp1.c0.inoc.net: rblayzor@inoc.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDc4G5Ydqz4qmv X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.96 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[inoc.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[inoc.net,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.956]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[64.246.141.1:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22302, ipnet:64.246.140.0/23, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[rblayzor@inoc.net]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[inoc.net:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[inoc.net:s=default]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[64.246.141.1:from:127.0.2.255]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[rblayzor@inoc.net]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 16:46:23 -0000 I don't know, ask yourself that, you did the same thing.... On 4/4/21 6:21 PM, Glen Barber wrote: > Is it necessary to quote the*entire* email (including checksums)? > > Glen > Sent from my phone. > Please excuse my brevity and/or typos. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 17:01:34 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984F85C0166 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:01:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (mailserver.netfence.it [78.134.96.152]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDcPn2wzYz4s87 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 17:01:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 135H1P1h042714 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:01:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> <20210405.172809.200436441.sthaug@nethelp.no> From: Andrea Venturoli Message-ID: <6e4a5d94-a57e-12a8-8437-494e4139c832@netfence.it> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:01:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210405.172809.200436441.sthaug@nethelp.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDcPn2wzYz4s87 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=netfence.it; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ml@netfence.it designates 78.134.96.152 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ml@netfence.it X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.80 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[78.134.96.152:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[78.134.96.152:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:78.134.96.152]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[netfence.it,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:35612, ipnet:78.134.0.0/17, country:IT]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 17:01:34 -0000 On 4/5/21 5:28 PM, sthaug@nethelp.no wrote: >> - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS >> traffic? > > Because I trust my (European) ISP significantly more than I trust big > US companies? Yes, I have a pretty good idea what Cloudflare, Google > etc have said about the queries they receive. I still don't see a > reason to trust them, given their actions in other areas. I agree. Another reason is I often have my internal DNS server. bye av. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 18:27:43 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215EA5C2C24 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:27:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rleigh@codelibre.net) Received: from b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk (b-painless.mh.aa.net.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:0:30::52]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDfKB1kvTz3G70 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:27:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rleigh@codelibre.net) Received: from 182.155.187.81.in-addr.arpa ([81.187.155.182] helo=melaidhrin.home) by painless-b.tch.aa.net.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lTTwr-000593-Hu for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 19:27:41 +0100 From: Roger Leigh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:27:23 +0100 References: To: freebsd-stable stable In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDfKB1kvTz3G70 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rleigh@codelibre.net has no SPF policy when checking 2001:8b0:0:30::52) smtp.mailfrom=rleigh@codelibre.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.40 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2001:8b0:0:30::52:from]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[codelibre.net]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2001:8b0:0:30::52:from:127.0.2.255]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20712, ipnet:2001:8b0::/32, country:GB]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 18:27:43 -0000 On 3 Apr 2021, at 22:21, Eugene Grosbein wrote: >=20 > 04.04.2021 3:39, Ed Maste wrote: >=20 >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it = dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >>=20 >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >=20 > I'm strongly against remove of stock ftpd. FTP is fastest protocol for = both testing > and daily file transfer for trusted isolated segments, and even for = WAN wrapped in IPSec. >=20 > Our stock ftpd has very short backlog of security issues comparing = with other FTP server implementations, > mostly linked with libc or other libraries and not with ftpd code = itself. >=20 > Please don't fix what ain't broken. Please. How would you draw the line between something that must be part of the = base system vs. something that would be better off as part of the ports = tree? What bar should ftpd have to meet to warrant remaining in base vs = moving to ports? Personally, I=E2=80=99ve never enabled it nor had any desire to. FTP = is, at this point in time, thoroughly obsolescent, and I cannot imagine = that it is something that most people enable, if they are even aware of = its existence. Why can=E2=80=99t it simply be installed from the ports = for the occasional user who still requires it? Why should the base = system contain obsolete stuff that few people will use? Surely the = ports tree serves this need better? Can I ask, for those who do enable it, why isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Csftp=E2=80= =9D acceptable (or =E2=80=9Cscp=E2=80=9D)? Both provide a similar = function, securely, which also works with a basic installation without = any ports. SSHFXP, the protocol underlying sftp is better specified, = less ambiguous and more fault tolerant and safe than the FTP protocol = ever was. The client is better than most ftp clients, and the server = (/usr/libexec/sftp-server) is started on demand on a per-connection = basis. What makes FTP more desirable than a service over SSH which is = (from a technical and usability point of view) a better FTP than FTP = ever was? Kind regards, Roger=09 From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 18:51:52 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62BE35C32BF for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:51:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamesx.michael.feldman@intel.com) Received: from mga06.intel.com (mga06.intel.com [134.134.136.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "orsmga104.jf.intel.com", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Organization Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDfs26t3xz3HGs for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:51:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamesx.michael.feldman@intel.com) IronPort-SDR: aSN2NQxBm0R1XODHrtO19x744p8wsZPiUA6YeFFZzZNnHy4GjEub4Iyk1jvrN9PdwMjvNmF3XF aMlwVofgtgXA== X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="6000,8403,9945"; a="254240973" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.81,307,1610438400"; d="scan'208";a="254240973" Received: from fmsmga001.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.23]) by orsmga104.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 05 Apr 2021 11:51:48 -0700 IronPort-SDR: R4pAVTygElwsz0B5JfHokkvhwA19ky7akHCcFP8pGDunlnPl6SAJaSoKOxjMuofpyIBx6idJ5C yKNSCUwL6TfA== X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.81,307,1610438400"; d="scan'208";a="518710120" Received: from fmsmsx604.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.18.126.84]) by fmsmga001.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2021 11:51:47 -0700 Received: from fmsmsx602.amr.corp.intel.com (10.18.126.82) by fmsmsx604.amr.corp.intel.com (10.18.126.84) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:51:44 -0700 Received: from FMSEDG603.ED.cps.intel.com (10.1.192.133) by fmsmsx602.amr.corp.intel.com (10.18.126.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:51:44 -0700 Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.70.107) by edgegateway.intel.com (192.55.55.68) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 11:51:26 -0700 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=PFK5FSxATeKxnvbJObtWD7G+4BsibQMAlnpNPea8UAWgRkdo7Nvt05ltEJn8Y5GFv5X0BlvkOyW+m0ryiLheV2sScLda0B8aIeI7vQgwhPTuTQj7qqNTPG6vpZ81MF+PhoCkeyYJIpIk+TZYvW1icQQ9RXz+agGwZoHD9+Frcb1N1YCxkhiZcHr9neFGzW6UhlMCixDLOorqdN29Vciot69Yphyo3u83c6geifP9ff0XHK0xsbprYUcRugDBEge/GlR7n5w1IHVjNCVa6KVilDv2Ja3LhlxAj0lIrk9+z/c+l8spq7EvUPrNeyyfQZDmds9ZhHQ35bECWXDzF10oog== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NJPP7GbxHeUgU8ppseRloOHqSnZ9pQLCxi8aGOT3fBk=; b=GSVDqICC+aVBVN7zqPeru7NOf8n+KyIR5kuTrdxjRqiVNm9iSSVL6aeBINJNatn+HicLeg54B967YHZGfTV7QnYzCpZVsQ7EHBfXQ5sjTmDp+xrhW9tlyauSiwr2S+Z5tmT85f6CSpaj38X41VIpcGH7OVcMxmnGgc0VnDdFqgGHSdutUGynBqJCSkOgNqBFNFuVBip0FqJaIBZEkfznDDQJ18Vbz6BB9jyr+nnAUkPX3ALljJjIfrKUrWkcc8Ax9zmvtygE6vjztd543dDyQSm6UcopZefdxcddKizRTxMVnHZ4ZJZAJJsnFiAEiuUPNGN4ADOln8YQ9fGT38+1TA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=intel.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=intel.com; dkim=pass header.d=intel.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=intel.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-intel-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NJPP7GbxHeUgU8ppseRloOHqSnZ9pQLCxi8aGOT3fBk=; b=kzO8EALDnw78SmiCo8kJLO4mRzrbIJYfRFHUFkre/j7cAmuWVp+lw63RziozXa+RdjJYH1bpNP879+bJy/Q3CI+UjCQlvfI8TiMdRcwDnEMFyplGViPwS6wT2AhTQPyiDgtLwX09h1nxU1AqIkL+8PaPVRBKn/fBYPysK/pT7KU= Received: from MWHPR11MB1485.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:301:d::18) by MWHPR11MB1437.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:301:a::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3999.28; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:51:25 +0000 Received: from MWHPR11MB1485.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5524:cb65:5335:6e9e]) by MWHPR11MB1485.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5524:cb65:5335:6e9e%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3999.032; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:51:25 +0000 From: "Feldman, JamesX Michael" To: Roger Leigh , freebsd-stable stable Subject: RE: Deprecating base system ftpd? Thread-Topic: Deprecating base system ftpd? 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with ESMTP id 0C0495C3D9B for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:02:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Received: from mail.punkt.de (mail.punkt.de [217.29.41.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDg4y6Tgnz3JBs; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Received: from [IPv6:2003:a:d59:3880:d185:ab38:f170:334] (unknown [IPv6:2003:a:d59:3880:d185:ab38:f170:334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.punkt.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FB6C3C37A; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 21:02:03 +0200 (CEST) From: "Patrick M. Hausen" Message-Id: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4CD1FADC-F4C5-4AFB-AA04-06AE393FB4DC"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 21:01:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: freebsd-stable stable To: Ed Maste References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDg4y6Tgnz3JBs X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hausen@punkt.de designates 217.29.41.227 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hausen@punkt.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.90 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.29.32.0/20]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[217.29.41.227:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16188, ipnet:217.29.32.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[punkt.de]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[217.29.41.227:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 19:02:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4CD1FADC-F4C5-4AFB-AA04-06AE393FB4DC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, > Am 03.04.2021 um 22:39 schrieb Ed Maste : > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? A bit late to the party, but my take is: please just don't. I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax = transmissions via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to stay. In local networks, of course. But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for = customers of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH key = is. Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over = more than 20 years ... Kind regards, Patrick -- punkt.de GmbH Patrick M. Hausen .infrastructure Kaiserallee 13a 76133 Karlsruhe Tel. +49 721 9109500 https://infrastructure.punkt.de info@punkt.de AG Mannheim 108285 Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: J=C3=BCrgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian = Stein --Apple-Mail=_4CD1FADC-F4C5-4AFB-AA04-06AE393FB4DC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEgzqrjO/mj9CSsTg2kG8u4u3aiVwFAmBrXqIACgkQkG8u4u3a iVyk4gf+Pe/yRokeESbnU4qtCDqx6SkxVyiHGoufS16jeN7VDC/NXI/oIVD2/84G xsofC5Bd2Ffxz2at/aB1f2HrMJDuqcKh8lAIE5osvYJywvHxMjZNyBa5RiDKE3Cm 6CYv2LVMG1IfBLa4OYMLyBaHnWs35TDHIxE6pmiK/CDgWNoUiLFTvoPjjCS66coA 6leVvkUk290jJjpCf5akSGeduVIF3n71bW9oKxtp+Ez2fGdJ5w/Cj2HZEAIbjXWG O6v/tU71AeK3/5KLdtiOwKesCg7XEbokq4+4/+iz3EBTV9Nw+jt7Kb9/ls4rDiGZ 059S53+T9992h5P3eft9u+5/G3+m2Q== =T7+L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_4CD1FADC-F4C5-4AFB-AA04-06AE393FB4DC-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 19:16:02 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48945C42E7 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:16:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ted@io-tx.com) Received: from io-tx.com (io-tx.com [209.198.147.18]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.io-tx.com", Issuer "AlphaSSL CA - SHA256 - G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDgNy5MH6z3KMg; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:16:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ted@io-tx.com) Received: from io-tx.com (io-tx.com [209.198.147.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by io-tx.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 135JFx7r043071 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:15:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ted@io-tx.com) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 14:15:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Ted Hatfield To: "Patrick M. Hausen" cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> Message-ID: <22c50a6-7c2c-3fc0-bd5f-42a0ba624c3@io-tx.com> References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.1 at io-tx.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL, KAM_DMARC_STATUS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on io-tx.com X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDgNy5MH6z3KMg X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 19:16:03 -0000 On Mon, 5 Apr 2021, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > Hi all, > >> Am 03.04.2021 um 22:39 schrieb Ed Maste : >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > A bit late to the party, but my take is: please just don't. > > I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients > from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. > > People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* > on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. > > TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media > via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. > Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax transmissions > via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to stay. > In local networks, of course. > > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for customers > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH key is. > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over more > than 20 years ... > > Kind regards, > Patrick > -- > Hear! Hear! Although I don't have any statistics to back this up this has been my experience as well. Sincerely, Ted Hatfield From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 19:17:27 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8FC5C4796 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:17:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDgQb52tWz3Kg7; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:17:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.30] ([194.32.164.30]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id 135JHKfY085098; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 20:17:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 20:17:19 +0100 Cc: "Patrick M. Hausen" , freebsd-stable stable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7311924E-EA49-4BAF-AC2F-1670EF702647@gid.co.uk> References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> To: Ed Maste X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDgQb52tWz3Kg7 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 19:17:28 -0000 Hi, > On 5 Apr 2021, at 20:01, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 >> Am 03.04.2021 um 22:39 schrieb Ed Maste : >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >=20 > A bit late to the party, but my take is: please just don't. +1 (later still) > I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients > from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. >=20 > People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* > on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. >=20 > TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media > via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. > Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax = transmissions > via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to = stay. > In local networks, of course. >=20 > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for = customers > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH = key is. > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over = more > than 20 years ... >=20 > Kind regards, > Patrick > -- > punkt.de GmbH > Patrick M. Hausen > .infrastructure >=20 > Kaiserallee 13a > 76133 Karlsruhe >=20 > Tel. +49 721 9109500 >=20 > https://infrastructure.punkt.de > info@punkt.de >=20 > AG Mannheim 108285 > Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: J=C3=BCrgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian = Stein >=20 -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 19:48:42 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15CCD5C5460 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:48:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from smtp1.bway.net (smtp1.bway.net [216.220.96.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDh6d6wMzz3N2p; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:48:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from gaseousweiner.sporklab.com (pool-74-102-83-202.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [74.102.83.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: spork@bway.net) by smtp1.bway.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D6B0F95854; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_386B22DF-C54B-4039-ACC1-46240E31BD2E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? From: Charles Sprickman In-Reply-To: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 15:48:39 -0400 Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 639344918.816349-2cf0e3927152f5294c2a420c66a510fc Message-Id: <81955104-AFA3-451D-8AE7-630C483E8DF3@bway.net> References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> To: "Patrick M. Hausen" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDh6d6wMzz3N2p X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 19:48:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_386B22DF-C54B-4039-ACC1-46240E31BD2E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 5, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients > from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. Yep, and what I think many miss IRT to the stock ftpd is that it=E2=80=99s= dumb simple and =E2=80=9Cjust works=E2=80=9D. For web hosting stuff I generally use something like Proftpd or vsftpd, = and, IMHO, that=E2=80=99s when you should have to expend brain power to = choose something from ports - when your use-case (supporting hosting = customers, virtual users, etc.) requires a non-trivial ftp = implementation. Also I can count on my left hand the number of web hosting customers = I=E2=80=99ve run into that actually use scp for sftp or even know what = that is. They=E2=80=99re using the same ftp client they=E2=80=99ve = always used (ws-ftp quite often) and the last thing they want to do is = learn something new. > People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* > on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. I frequently work with people who have limited budgets, and I don=E2=80=99= t think I=E2=80=99m alone in that. Ebay is chock full of high-volume = sellers turning over old networking gear that is amazingly good stuff = that=E2=80=99s just outdated. I can grab a 48 port GigE switch with = 10gb/s uplink ports for under $200. The market is gigantic, and putting = old stuff to use on an internal network with proper safeguards is not = totally crazy. Customers can have multiple fully-loaded spares on-site = for less than what a year of SmartNet coverage would cost. My server platform of choice when I want a =E2=80=9Csupport server=E2=80=9D= for this old stuff has always been FreeBSD. Stock tftpd and ftpd are = wonderful, and anyone professing that those two tiny daemons are = =E2=80=9Cbloat=E2=80=9D just hasn=E2=80=99t used Linux. > TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media > via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. > Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax = transmissions > via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to = stay. > In local networks, of course. Preach! And plenty of VoIP gear too! There are absolutely real world uses for these simple daemons, and I = trust some stock FreeBSD daemon like this more than something I might = fetch from ports - both in terms of knowing it=E2=80=99s had some kind = of auditing/maintenance by qualified people and that it=E2=80=99s going = to have an accurate manpage, sane defaults, and remain relatively = simple/minimal. I think as everyone has moved to the cloud and devops and all that they = forget about sysadmins standing up servers as simple utility boxes that = support a bunch of other gear. > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for = customers > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH = key is. > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over = more > than 20 years =E2=80=A6 I think some people mean well, and they imagine that if we just tell = people to move to some monstrosity like Filezilla the problem is solved, = but realistically it=E2=80=99s just a good way to lose paying customers. Charles >=20 > Kind regards, > Patrick > -- > punkt.de GmbH > Patrick M. Hausen > .infrastructure >=20 > Kaiserallee 13a > 76133 Karlsruhe >=20 > Tel. +49 721 9109500 >=20 > https://infrastructure.punkt.de > info@punkt.de >=20 > AG Mannheim 108285 > Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: J=C3=BCrgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian = Stein >=20 --Apple-Mail=_386B22DF-C54B-4039-ACC1-46240E31BD2E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEECbwhUg0jlYPK5QaKiZUhnP6GpPYFAmBraZYACgkQiZUhnP6G pPY08ggAlEzi1QHqo4wVZAXNGyV4BEI1kWM7Cz6U1Z4aOYF/sXsOEGcfJSvZGer2 fIDdL8myY+h1IGXPOu74bQoRbCrYN/sm1q22WC74fFUnkrx2qGgy4BOrgDaeBIqD K+n9JJFmEQipCPDY0ZXd11ax/46L9aF/RaYxgbxIkDOJXMNz7Y+xufmiFrIHSOIl TBuJlqEvma5p7iWNvgqTa2Z0Jytzqem5rX08lXgxG6etEM72+xJ9IMRBDSkO4xur 7WAQg9iB4ka8fSW9IYORiU4FFKh7wgKUnPsvK1keNObjW+9AxIEEPfOPwOhCkLkG oGtivWhKqvYJdLJ4NPujFyQFysVnmg== =RwjV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_386B22DF-C54B-4039-ACC1-46240E31BD2E-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 20:44:05 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699C75C6AB0 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 20:44:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-f43.google.com (mail-io1-f43.google.com [209.85.166.43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDjLX4wSnz3hf8 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 20:44:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-f43.google.com with SMTP id z3so10482221ioc.8 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 13:44:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dFk2RTDRHK0HVBbn/zpKJXh7bUIB8ZhgGcjamI/lzjo=; b=uSIWqaJrnMZo7VbFRzTXDkpbgbQli+2Ohd0mBIXiLnpu78VCCT04yn2NSFidZkQmNA NbJ0kStsShOcXe5oisFEEO6zeMooGMHnF40xErTZ3bY1yWCR1GAExaIao8R2XIct5x1T qgxaIIa+4rfwJV7PvnMKpHmn8f+KqD9mBs2xoFSNRAy997PXfv9f+LnAc+MNzYaF8q3o is47Mh5joJkq9ECeO37ryaVN9xU5tKfP0hQUPONG9UD7r8GmzyWYNthaPl824eWMLbs4 tpk7IxqQqAbv/HAJbY8splXdBI7db4OXxbACKaCIQObSe0txPV58/dq+gTZvpQ9MQZqn ZuZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532NZWR/3aoT9qAOGfXihBBAxG3Cx18K0VDMiX8mhBvA8kJWBXR2 Zri5LKNw/Q9FHrtc2fKjj0MnIhL0LX/P+JRY1/+bz5bq X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyjtx8/r31jNICWfnn4KpnVuQ4mDML3zmFfB3frjuOF8IybA1POzds7cPV1UIbm0nP+rb2Jzzk8sRoINqekqoY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:224e:: with SMTP id m14mr26290440jas.8.1617655442924; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 13:44:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ed Maste Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 16:43:26 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: freebsd-stable stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDjLX4wSnz3hf8 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.166.43:from]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[carpeddiem]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.166.43:from:127.0.2.255]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.166.43:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.166.43:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 20:44:05 -0000 On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 at 16:39, Ed Maste wrote: > > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. I posted this as a proposal for community feedback, and there's clearly a strong objection to removing the base system ftpd. So, I'm not going to pursue this any further. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Mon Apr 5 21:34:13 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6325C83C0 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 21:34:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hruodr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDkSN5HpLz3ldG for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 21:34:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hruodr@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id f8so10030425edd.11 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:34:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references:user-agent :mime-version; bh=lCcfSZTzwDeDGtg97cU62S3u/gplbFOTU+Bo7f/d2I4=; b=roUwjjBfSczZDHRBLgvG2fMVj9SGWlO+D0S+TCxO0odOl9aTVNm2+TUfuy3x02RQs3 GL+aQoEqBR3lsO7xK+jVN2snsJWwFvyixa6miHaSixisJPSrACyQEZbsuTy5hb7WFmsf Ym8bNKla3+yOQ+ridnfXX9edhHNxQTmQ4aBra/cT9P2XydS/MulI9bj2RRQ7c4+EAugw OkyQ1QhwxtxMeaAelk/NwcTZldFhcAdn8OwG/t9OarKG8m3EnXN1uUw7bGAIbWXGu6zy gj7RgJFxNYlIIwsrckD+94rdv9O0yUvy0ouHUVXNgMSAjX+MFtQKsY3xYdH+lTx++7G/ IjwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=lCcfSZTzwDeDGtg97cU62S3u/gplbFOTU+Bo7f/d2I4=; b=VuPnQ879PAIOVDL+bXfXf8olJeW+V81QR4BdXYGeaEdJLiC2+3iJX2LRFUH2jQ9eHd h3PmRCaaTFdO7N3H0WL+7S7u0dcjGL//PAUa9yKpVjrU9cn8sG2kWiG8PO6I9lW4sYKu CV3pe/Tr4j536qezjP+yEw8E/U/vTrAoxjFT7BcQDWjq+hyh2RlLl6Y4cM+V02QmNEed XztZxKvvFszJT63i/2MUTAjI/g5dxKTdUs8V/zfX2f37tGTQ95Q0Sp0KnCsBorMRufDd anFetePoHjqm4Fa2a7FLh0FxT2PyoGv0L1Wjvv9FXG0E94QMhc7/8Xp9CnnHzxH/n/KN KsHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533acDNrZkyRQnQcCW4t2mS3Bd9YOadqZrM+98gOfbkfdbrvUXig f+cltsEgi/U9VnH1xGO+pVt2witVZTQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzB53Tma0VpvCK75sFdGXlqEnQ7erERL8Z2inY2MalUIujBEbJbahWOKPgxkZZ6HjLoOSOGJg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1157:: with SMTP id g23mr33914517edw.303.1617658450675; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.26] (dslb-088-075-233-085.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de. [88.75.233.85]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id mp36sm9226817ejc.48.2021.04.05.14.34.09 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Apr 2021 14:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 21:31:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Roderick To: Daniel Morante via freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.23 (BSF 453 2020-06-18) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDkSN5HpLz3ldG X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=roUwjjBf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hruodr@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hruodr@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52e:from]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[88.75.233.85:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52e:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52e:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 21:34:13 -0000 On Sun, 4 Apr 2021, Daniel Morante via freebsd-stable wrote: > My vote is for no. > > Reasoning is simple... at what point does it stop?  By continuously moving > stuff from base to ports, FreeBSD slowly becomes just a Kernel. 😉 I follow this argumentation. I do not understand what is the problem leaving it there. It is no bloat. It was there from the beginning of BSD. It may be insecure, but can be used in local nets. And who does not like it, do not need to use it. We had in base a complete DNS, now only a cashing one. We have a very robust MTA in base, sendmail, but some people complain against it. This will never end. R. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 00:12:44 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 692455CB1CC for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 00:12:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf36.google.com (mail-qv1-xf36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDnzH3Tlkz4Rcq for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 00:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf36.google.com with SMTP id j17so6280386qvo.13 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2021 17:12:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 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Mon, 05 Apr 2021 17:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nuc ([142.126.164.150]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a138sm14737328qkg.29.2021.04.05.17.12.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Apr 2021 17:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Mark Johnston Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 20:12:43 -0400 From: Mark Johnston To: Daniel Braniss Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: current make world brakes if HESIOD enabled Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDnzH3Tlkz4Rcq X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=abfuRYi1; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of markjdb@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=markjdb@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.70 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[markj@freebsd.org,markjdb@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36:from]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[markj@freebsd.org,markjdb@gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f36:from]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 00:12:44 -0000 On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 09:18:29AM +0300, Daniel Braniss wrote: > I must be the last person on earth to use Hesiod :-) > this are the diffs: Thanks, this was committed earlier today. > diff --git a/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c b/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c > index afb89cab3..5832cb8c6 100644 > --- a/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c > +++ b/lib/libc/gen/getgrent.c > @@ -971,7 +971,7 @@ dns_group(void *retval, void *mdata, va_list ap) > hes = NULL; > name = NULL; > gid = (gid_t)-1; > - how = (enum nss_lookup_type)mdata; > + how = (enum nss_lookup_type)(uintptr_t)mdata; > switch (how) { > case nss_lt_name: > name = va_arg(ap, const char *); > diff --git a/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c b/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c > index a07ee109e..bc1d341fd 100644 > --- a/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c > +++ b/lib/libc/gen/getpwent.c > @@ -1108,7 +1108,7 @@ dns_passwd(void *retval, void *mdata, va_list ap) > hes = NULL; > name = NULL; > uid = (uid_t)-1; > - how = (enum nss_lookup_type)mdata; > + how = (enum nss_lookup_type)(uintptr_t)mdata; > switch (how) { > case nss_lt_name: > name = va_arg(ap, const char *); > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 01:54:35 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873815CD787 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 01:54:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) Received: from orthanc.ca (orthanc.ca [208.79.93.154]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "orthanc.ca", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDrDp46rGz4ZST for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 01:54:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ca) Received: from orthanc.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ca (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id d03e857d; Mon, 5 Apr 2021 18:54:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)" To: "Feldman, JamesX Michael" cc: Roger Leigh , freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-reply-to: References: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> Comments: In-reply-to "Feldman, JamesX Michael" message dated "Mon, 05 Apr 2021 18:51:25 -0000." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <30313.1617674072.1@orthanc.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2021 18:54:32 -0700 Message-ID: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDrDp46rGz4ZST X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lyndon@orthanc.ca designates 208.79.93.154 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lyndon@orthanc.ca X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[208.79.93.154:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:208.79.93.154:c]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[orthanc.ca]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[0.999]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[208.79.93.154:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25795, ipnet:208.79.88.0/21, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:54:35 -0000 Don't forget that Telnet is an actual protocol, which telnet(1) implements. nc is (for the most part) just a byte-copying middleman. There's still gear out there that speaks Telnet, and expects the client to support it (primarily for things like line mode editing). --lyndon From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 06:06:17 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B035D435C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 06:06:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from soth.netfence.it (mailserver.netfence.it [78.134.96.152]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mailserver.netfence.it", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDxqC545Vz4tBy for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 06:06:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) Received: from alamar.ventu (alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by soth.netfence.it (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 13666C8p048098 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:06:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from ml@netfence.it) X-Authentication-Warning: soth.netfence.it: Host alamar.local.netfence.it [10.1.2.18] claimed to be alamar.ventu Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> From: Andrea Venturoli Message-ID: <247fdded-c8c1-1116-6dc5-4b4a61af1f7a@netfence.it> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:06:12 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FDxqC545Vz4tBy X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=netfence.it; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ml@netfence.it designates 78.134.96.152 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ml@netfence.it X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.80 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[78.134.96.152:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[78.134.96.152:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:78.134.96.152]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[netfence.it,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:35612, ipnet:78.134.0.0/17, country:IT]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 06:06:17 -0000 On 4/5/21 8:27 PM, Roger Leigh wrote: > Can I ask, for those who do enable it, why isn’t “sftp” acceptable (or “scp”)? Because it's an *incompatible* replacement. While I never enabled ftpd, I was once asked to. I refused and enabled sftp instead: the problem was that for 99% of the customers on the other side of the wire, this wasn't the same thing. It was hard to make them change their habits, their clients, etc... That said, I vote for moving ftpd to ports. Just my 2c. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 08:05:18 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04595BD3A1 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:05:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geralddelapascua@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-f175.google.com (mail-yb1-f175.google.com [209.85.219.175]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF0SY2HgSz3Myb; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:05:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geralddelapascua@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yb1-f175.google.com with SMTP id i144so15259122ybg.1; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:05:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=USGpjb7pP50iM4ELuIYM5u3JMXq2dsSiC9wF1KZp8lg=; b=aifKlI6Zy4Z95MRfvXVMecOKhgdxUogDZzaXWjd8k9v/bcCt7HY/8PyKcEnuWPOXx4 NI3cJWx8wvFnt3FbP8I8pc0saddiETIpD5MJIt8w4gH//fndIURwLWtg0kr9RxHFEqSX P+vNOHUBhqe3mg9piOjKHgShxQaxs9nok2i0MZKYWm8zmicfDW9MNg+oDXgQ9RSXqKMZ QuoOryjvIwzr2JBKt4N0s118OX1zCZIMfOI1xtj6wEUeIEZGc/5icVTk19vXRwW/NhXk 5FyHrTndwrGGLbw8qEKjcUTABk1ja70yctEDiF1iBTgpNeBSG2vteBo0jkeq06q7TrAJ 40VQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309pTpuuzI7nbikX4njp9LOHA/EPK9eCEhmfa9C5kyJenL4CgR2 LWON8rPlxtH1u20+t5xodIZJ/hcGgTrTOSwE4nGmkEHFXK8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwAygAYhl3Hq/XO6jdKTcdud4AjtYeGsMoq3yvSgVM/rBw1JUihveikllkac7hbh+sStwNl9spWCxu6atvg4dY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:70e:: with SMTP id k14mr42957195ybt.286.1617696315992; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:05:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gerald de la Pascua Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:05:04 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Ed Maste Cc: freebsd-stable stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF0SY2HgSz3Myb X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of geralddelapascua@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=geralddelapascua@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.86 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.219.175:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[homes-on-line.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.14)[0.135]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.219.175:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.219.175:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[gerald@homes-on-line.com,geralddelapascua@gmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.219.175:from]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[gerald@homes-on-line.com,geralddelapascua@gmail.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:05:18 -0000 Speaking for myself, like some others here, I would find the removal of ftp inconvenient, and if it is removed, please could we have it in an easy to install and configure port. We have a number of apps that transfer data, and legacy issues mean that it's hard to transfer to another protocol. It's not sensitive data so the security concerns aren't an issue to us. thanks, Gerald, On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 9:40 PM Ed Maste wrote: > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 08:19:41 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C19C5C41F8 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:19:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geralddelapascua@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-f174.google.com (mail-yb1-f174.google.com [209.85.219.174]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF0n81Zchz3jry for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:19:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geralddelapascua@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yb1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 82so4704973yby.7 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:19:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HvTHkSBbiH2S666cyFwN0X/tRWNT+DJTT3PM/i2BKiM=; b=bN2FjxH5cCHbWP4RIT/F7gErDOyUPCb0W0sTWwpPyPJiLbuTJBe/edS6ATDimPLAeJ /An8YQOQSTAmqxM755mTklxCAbdoKia3yDpJ7SEmrCvqODLc2mgtXOHOgEQ5fsJ3csO1 brFGmeBEOkdDUufVjomAa6qLGeNYR/fGMBPx4TAGKRhCqFrgsaZkglMO2WW0GXN2je5g Yi5OM+ueHSjgKeBlP2kzhjM4BQFCAQVi+sQsYV8+WrSPHM8I+t3kWbzb/5PnHY+xlAXd lnaxjXiYmm3+ckckjLEVebi2paWA3fGFCrRTtyitaEFyUatotrj0nAtmwEtjf9bJWtAc T5zQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5335emoPZaZa3nR1NuHO2RnoAAWhQaMGsMD2pO+65yqBX3exVnmT BqW7ay4wb6GoBJptSTkWpIalBum8IlyGs0LCianIWdovoZ4sFA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz1DkvvZwOlKHDJa3yxUr66EQkzgyixmRCJZ93gNyDjjq92SHzxdlEHl4jZPhoQPVrNitwhn0PBSsDkPFpOg4Y= X-Received: by 2002:a25:1d5:: with SMTP id 204mr12192786ybb.310.1617697179130; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:19:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> In-Reply-To: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> From: Gerald de la Pascua Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:19:27 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Roger Leigh Cc: freebsd-stable stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF0n81Zchz3jry X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of geralddelapascua@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=geralddelapascua@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.79 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[gerald@homes-on-line.com,geralddelapascua@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.219.174:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[gerald@homes-on-line.com,geralddelapascua@gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[homes-on-line.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.21)[0.210]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.219.174:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.219.174:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.219.174:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:19:41 -0000 "Can I ask, for those who do enable it, why isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Csftp=E2= =80=9D acceptable (or =E2=80=9Cscp=E2=80=9D)? Both provide a similar function, securely, which a= lso works with a basic installation without any ports. SSHFXP, the protocol underlying sftp is better specified, less ambiguous and more fault tolerant and safe than the FTP protocol ever was. The client is better than most ftp clients, and the server (/usr/libexec/sftp-server) is started on demand on a per-connection basis. What makes FTP more desirable than a service over SSH which is (from a technical and usability point of view) a better"r FTP than FTP ever was?" Because we have a lot of legacy clients, in the field that use ftp to transfer non sensitive data, it's simple, and I don't see the need to revisit this because it's an old fashioned non encrypted protocol, you may disagree that's fine, but for many purposes it does the job. Sure there may be better tools, but I see no reason to re issue lots of client apps that are built on this and are working fine needlessly, G On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 7:28 PM Roger Leigh wrote: > On 3 Apr 2021, at 22:21, Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > > 04.04.2021 3:39, Ed Maste wrote: > > > >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > >> > >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > > > I'm strongly against remove of stock ftpd. FTP is fastest protocol for > both testing > > and daily file transfer for trusted isolated segments, and even for WAN > wrapped in IPSec. > > > > Our stock ftpd has very short backlog of security issues comparing with > other FTP server implementations, > > mostly linked with libc or other libraries and not with ftpd code itsel= f. > > > > Please don't fix what ain't broken. Please. > > How would you draw the line between something that must be part of the > base system vs. something that would be better off as part of the ports > tree? What bar should ftpd have to meet to warrant remaining in base vs > moving to ports? > > Personally, I=E2=80=99ve never enabled it nor had any desire to. FTP is,= at this > point in time, thoroughly obsolescent, and I cannot imagine that it is > something that most people enable, if they are even aware of its > existence. Why can=E2=80=99t it simply be installed from the ports for t= he > occasional user who still requires it? Why should the base system contai= n > obsolete stuff that few people will use? Surely the ports tree serves th= is > need better? > > Can I ask, for those who do enable it, why isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Csftp=E2= =80=9D acceptable (or > =E2=80=9Cscp=E2=80=9D)? Both provide a similar function, securely, which= also works with a > basic installation without any ports. SSHFXP, the protocol underlying sf= tp > is better specified, less ambiguous and more fault tolerant and safe than > the FTP protocol ever was. The client is better than most ftp clients, a= nd > the server (/usr/libexec/sftp-server) is started on demand on a > per-connection basis. What makes FTP more desirable than a service over > SSH which is (from a technical and usability point of view) a better FTP > than FTP ever was? > > Kind regards, > Roger > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 08:21:20 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717D75C4573 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:21:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geralddelapascua@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-f176.google.com (mail-yb1-f176.google.com [209.85.219.176]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF0q42lSLz3k9R; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:21:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from geralddelapascua@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yb1-f176.google.com with SMTP id g38so15271909ybi.12; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:21:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=63X58OLvNmau82e1a+Et1x48OEOTRTdP07XJtGuJiX8=; b=uanKR2i5J3i6GqYCDympfqFY4quozjLdKHEItXfLWrSGK2CdgcWKZqPAbqCwQWRP7h /YB6JXWTYgbpE1XoqeCeaPYa1ajmM/emGmt4B9aa8IOhdZSnQWe23nUcOMd9u1h9S8Me QH+7RdrfpNDDGsdP1PWNqPVEF6lLrnRSgCqEeaOi45w2OMS6JHdwaEei8IVP6Z49Rm8K 88xaK4WRzWS+DrJsSbze44B+1QHt9VmJtyXsMhBt2Goz/aIVG3UCEZ2cEYqezSVRDEbq hlTYQ9CISWjwOx93LH3y2x1x7sqM0ByBnbl7Lvk0pNWcroUvDZlh5SVfjNO0FVkitm2F 754A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532vRpIrwcWBIBfnfjiXFKjvsn4BcbmyaGz6ymRE2kTmcc3Tn8gZ XAib54fEXTbIirSMHKJ0YCKhdqkdl1GrOrkvP9XUpRC2Bhg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxYNgKCVmis13+bNLUfZBi2fY4U+cl+76CrRpl+ni16ZQW4bmROHSmw4xcwYZdXfnACWlHJyNs9PZ/Gnk3iFD4= X-Received: by 2002:a25:ae03:: with SMTP id a3mr15685371ybj.118.1617697279585; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:21:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> <22c50a6-7c2c-3fc0-bd5f-42a0ba624c3@io-tx.com> In-Reply-To: <22c50a6-7c2c-3fc0-bd5f-42a0ba624c3@io-tx.com> From: Gerald de la Pascua Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:21:07 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Ted Hatfield Cc: "Patrick M. Hausen" , Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF0q42lSLz3k9R X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:21:20 -0000 +1 again from me too, keep it, It seems a pointless change of something that it seems a reasonable number of people are still using, even if there are better tools now, G On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:16 PM Ted Hatfield wrote: > On Mon, 5 Apr 2021, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > > Hi all, > > > >> Am 03.04.2021 um 22:39 schrieb Ed Maste : > >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > > > A bit late to the party, but my take is: please just don't. > > > > I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients > > from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. > > > > People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* > > on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. > > > > TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media > > via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. > > Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax transmissions > > via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to stay. > > In local networks, of course. > > > > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for > customers > > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH key > is. > > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over > more > > than 20 years ... > > > > Kind regards, > > Patrick > > -- > > > > > Hear! Hear! > > Although I don't have any statistics to back this up this > has been my experience as well. > > Sincerely, > > Ted Hatfield > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 09:29:50 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013AA5C6CEA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:29:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from gilb.zs64.net (gilb.zs64.net [IPv6:2a00:14b0:4200:32e0::1ea]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "gilb.zs64.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF2L55hPnz3r66; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:29:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: by gilb.zs64.net (Postfix, from stb@lassitu.de) id 20F113AC2E7; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 09:29:40 +0000 (UTC) From: Stefan Bethke Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0F5C5D8C-A129-40F7-B3CB-B585A26CD13B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:29:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable To: "Patrick M. Hausen" References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF2L55hPnz3r66 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 09:29:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0F5C5D8C-A129-40F7-B3CB-B585A26CD13B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Am 05.04.2021 um 21:01 schrieb Patrick M. Hausen : >=20 > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for = customers > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH = key is. > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over = more > than 20 years ... Strato did disable FTP access over a year ago, and instructed customers = on how to use SSH-based access instead, so it's definitely possible, and = people are moving towards more secure protocols, even when = (non-technical) end users are affected. Srefan -- Stefan Bethke Fon +49 151 14070811 --Apple-Mail=_0F5C5D8C-A129-40F7-B3CB-B585A26CD13B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEJ+hF98o4r3eU/HiPD885WK4W4sEFAmBsKf4ACgkQD885WK4W 4sGFwAgAgCNE3zzojvi0deKVaBIehcKoRGGO0of+earAJBfX9tsCJhNngYtESjY5 Bzi0qY5hIi9a11K1+nxYEvSD9fIFjFckO5T+AdDHtBPgHAIqL24j+o1oabIZrDFU cWfhmyQm2tSHkoKRJeBHDwxrG1gWI9fR8vWWY7TYtyb1BzHqqKxWMgHMm0fxuas2 Kt/TuamOUr0x7Zcp32kaE2elAXOq1RCf4hmGWHoekW4XSRvNjuxRGH5aeCDMUJ5R lF4ivRGOhTRn2YZiJFNpVAvO+63WsYB0YMbgG9agpONvf7Q/dMof7aUKa589MoQd Cbfa0uQYDpIUJSAr4U6qYKyvW+zixA== =SD2Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0F5C5D8C-A129-40F7-B3CB-B585A26CD13B-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 10:15:50 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC125C9219 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:15:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF3M94mdLz4R1F for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:15:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 136AFPZK023605 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:15:28 GMT (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: rleigh@codelibre.net Received: from [10.58.0.10] (dadvw [10.58.0.10]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 136AFI3M039103 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:15:18 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Roger Leigh , freebsd-stable stable References: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:15:12 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM, NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_FAIL,SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 0.0 SPF_FAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (fail) * [SPF failed: Please see http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom; id=eugen%40grosbein.net; ip=2a03%3A3100%3Ac%3A13%3A%3A5; r=hz.grosbein.net] * 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains * -0.0 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF3M94mdLz4R1F X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eugen@grosbein.net does not designate 2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=eugen@grosbein.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.92 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[eugen]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grosbein.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.910]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.906]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:15:50 -0000 06.04.2021 1:27, Roger Leigh wrote: >>> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >>> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >>> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >>> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped >>> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >>> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >>> >>> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >> >> I'm strongly against remove of stock ftpd. FTP is fastest protocol for both testing >> and daily file transfer for trusted isolated segments, and even for WAN wrapped in IPSec. >> >> Our stock ftpd has very short backlog of security issues comparing with other FTP server implementations, >> mostly linked with libc or other libraries and not with ftpd code itself. >> >> Please don't fix what ain't broken. Please. > > How would you draw the line between something that must be part of the base system vs. something > that would be better off as part of the ports tree? What bar should ftpd have to meet to warrant remaining in base vs moving to ports? POLA at least. > Personally, I’ve never enabled it nor had any desire to. FTP is, at this point in time, thoroughly obsolescent, Because someone told us so? > and I cannot imagine that it is something that most people enable, if they are even aware of its existence. > Why can’t it simply be installed from the ports for the occasional user who still requires it? This is one of services that should be available even if distfiles/packages are not reachable. You know, sshd used to be in ports too. > Can I ask, for those who do enable it, why isn’t “sftp” acceptable (or “scp”)? sftp is not compatible with FTP clients and FTP is faster, basically it is plain TCP socket for data transfer. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 10:21:45 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892895C94B8 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:21:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from abrancatelli@schema31.it) Received: from vanadio.schema31.it (vanadio.schema31.it [62.77.63.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "vanadio.pomona.schema31.it", Issuer "vanadio.pomona.schema31.it" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF3V03DS8z4RYJ for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:21:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from abrancatelli@schema31.it) Received: from smtp.schema31.it (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vanadio.pomona.schema31.it (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 136ALWaq052292; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:21:34 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from abrancatelli@schema31.it) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:21:26 +0200 From: Andrea Brancatelli To: Daniel Morante Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Organization: Schema31 s.r.l. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: X-Sender: abrancatelli@schema31.it User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.16 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF3V03DS8z4RYJ X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[62.77.63.157:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[schema31.it:s=gCloud]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:62.77.63.156/28]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[62.77.63.157:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[schema31.it:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[schema31.it,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20746, ipnet:62.77.32.0/19, country:IT]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:21:45 -0000 On 2021-04-05 02:05, Daniel Morante via freebsd-stable wrote: > My vote is for no. > > Reasoning is simple... at what point does it stop? By continuously moving stuff from base to ports, FreeBSD slowly becomes just a Kernel. 😉 I strongly agree with this consideration. --- Andrea Brancatelli From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 10:22:35 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F36D5C981E for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:22:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF3Vy2Rzyz4Rj0; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:22:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 136AMRGF023683 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:22:28 GMT (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: asomers@freebsd.org Received: from [10.58.0.10] (dadvw [10.58.0.10]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 136AMON3039338 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:22:24 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Alan Somers References: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> <606A920C.8030502@grosbein.net> Cc: FreeBSD Stable From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: <10f7015c-6dc8-1d1c-02b5-d9de5f5b8e68@grosbein.net> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:22:18 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM, NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_FAIL,SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 0.0 SPF_FAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (fail) * [SPF failed: Please see http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom; id=eugen%40grosbein.net; ip=2a03%3A3100%3Ac%3A13%3A%3A5; r=hz.grosbein.net] * 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains * -0.0 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF3Vy2Rzyz4Rj0 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eugen@grosbein.net does not designate 2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=eugen@grosbein.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.53 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[eugen]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grosbein.net]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.43)[-0.428]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:22:35 -0000 05.04.2021 19:57, Alan Somers write: > I wouldn't say that anything is "very good" when it has no test suite whatsoever. Many years of employment of ftpd in different environments (sometimes under heavy load) means something, too. Maybe even more than synthetic tests. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 10:23:40 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9A95C9846 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:23:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=/AfJ=JD=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF3XC709rz4RrH for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:23:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=/AfJ=JD=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB9B28417 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:23:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from illbsd.quip.test (ip-94-113-69-69.net.upcbroadband.cz [94.113.69.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D26628416 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:23:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> Message-ID: <9e38ef19-1ed7-9d83-4c25-ccd3b631c5fe@quip.cz> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:23:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF3XC709rz4RrH X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of SRS0=/AfJ=JD=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz has no SPF policy when checking 94.124.105.4) smtp.mailfrom=SRS0=/AfJ=JD=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.80 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[000.fbsd@quip.cz,SRS0=/AfJ=JD=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.113.69.69:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[94.124.105.4:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42000, ipnet:94.124.104.0/21, country:CZ]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[000.fbsd@quip.cz,SRS0=/AfJ=JD=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[94.124.105.4:from:127.0.2.255]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[quip.cz]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:23:40 -0000 On 06/04/2021 11:29, Stefan Bethke wrote: > Am 05.04.2021 um 21:01 schrieb Patrick M. Hausen : >> >> But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for customers >> of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH key is. >> Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over more >> than 20 years ... > > Strato did disable FTP access over a year ago, and instructed customers on how to use SSH-based access instead, so it's definitely possible, and people are moving towards more secure protocols, even when (non-technical) end users are affected. Working for small / average web hosting company - we disabled plaintext FTP over 15 years ago. All customers are able to use FTP client supporting FTPeS (FTP with explicit TLS). So it definitely is possible if there is a will or enough pressure on customers. On the other hand it does not matter to me if ftpd will be shipped in FreeBSD base for next 10 years. It is just a matter of maintaining it / man power for each release, testing etc. Miroslav Lachman From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 10:39:55 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04DF5CA43F for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:39:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: from gilb.zs64.net (gilb.zs64.net [212.12.50.234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "gilb.zs64.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF3tz3Znqz4TBK; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:39:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stb@lassitu.de) Received: by gilb.zs64.net (Postfix, from stb@lassitu.de) id 9D91E3AC8DD; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:39:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Stefan Bethke Message-Id: <0C4AA33F-713B-4AA9-A5B1-6C5717F00FBB@lassitu.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0293CD04-6C01-4608-8178-50588A774070"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:39:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <202104061008.136A8jqr083015@nuc.oldach.net> Cc: emaste@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, hausen@punkt.de To: Helge Oldach References: <202104061008.136A8jqr083015@nuc.oldach.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF3tz3Znqz4TBK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:39:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0293CD04-6C01-4608-8178-50588A774070 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Am 06.04.2021 um 12:08 schrieb Helge Oldach : >=20 > Stefan Bethke wrote on Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:29:34 +0200 (CEST): >> Strato did disable FTP access over a year ago, >=20 > Actually it was effective October 20, 2020. You are correct; I was remembering the announcement, not the switch off. > and instructed customers on how to use SSH-based access instead, >=20 > They have a completely different incentive (avoiding cleartext = passwords > over the Internet, and reportedly they had a number of cases where > customers where affected by password snooping) than a local admin = person > on a local network not exposed to the public. >=20 >> so it's definitely possible, and people are moving towards more = secure >> protocols, even when (non-technical) end users are affected. >=20 > No doubt about that. Any information about the ticket volume triggered > by this deprecation? I have no insight into Strato's operations, but from having to support a = bunch of non-technical people who are customers, I'd say it was = relatively painless, because Strato provided good instructions, and the = (non-techincal) customers were using GUI clients already anyway where = they only needed to switch from FTP to SFTP. Stefan -- Stefan Bethke Fon +49 151 14070811 --Apple-Mail=_0293CD04-6C01-4608-8178-50588A774070 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEJ+hF98o4r3eU/HiPD885WK4W4sEFAmBsOm8ACgkQD885WK4W 4sHI1gf+JVsChAufMK7mjfUn8Zl9YosMeEPis6IiowDE8fCCR+anXanOamEn96XW 58mVIWOtsZPfXUhboe6cjjy/M7d3EyOBUvvm8yFfyy2JHXs7/fyx5qeKiIn+fMeR pg+Nxnzn6Wtz4ffUG6FogKHOjQhpbDwHrIqcjR32EiL9qrLH88pP6O0eQqJgQ/OQ salwWdY88zFZWblycwlHY0A+G5+H24lf7eprD0oQeF3Bb/zi/5sw/K06obagtVLa DKITWhJS5MHA0cDFqN6IwpncKrrFxKxznrj42SFONtLLCpS9924V6ItrP7e6eovZ iY3ANbqJBP7WNCW0V7RKyaoSySxzyQ== =NPXK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0293CD04-6C01-4608-8178-50588A774070-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 10:49:19 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B51245CAD17 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:49:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rblayzor.bulk@inoc.net) Received: from cp1.c0.inoc.net (cp1.c0.inoc.net [64.246.141.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF45p6wkxz4Vc6 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 10:49:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rblayzor.bulk@inoc.net) Received: from pool-71-164-78-200.albyny.east.verizon.net ([71.164.78.200]:52627 helo=Void.local) by cp1.c0.inoc.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1lTjGn-0000DO-TU for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:49:17 +0000 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Robert Blayzor Subject: Portsnap no updates since 3/31/2021 ? Message-ID: <68bce42e-69b1-00de-2cf2-dff7e3a43466@inoc.net> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 06:49:17 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cp1.c0.inoc.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - inoc.net X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cp1.c0.inoc.net: authenticated_id: rblayzor@inoc.net X-Authenticated-Sender: cp1.c0.inoc.net: rblayzor@inoc.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF45p6wkxz4Vc6 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[inoc.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[inoc.net,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[71.164.78.200:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22302, ipnet:64.246.140.0/23, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[rblayzor@inoc.net]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[inoc.net:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[64.246.141.1:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[inoc.net:s=default]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[64.246.141.1:from:127.0.2.255]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[rblayzor@inoc.net]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 10:49:19 -0000 I have several servers running 11.4 and 12.2 that do nightly portsnap updates and the last time they've seen anything new is 3/31/2021, since then, nothing. This seems highly unusual since seems like there was always SOMETHING updated daily.... now nothing. -- inoc.net!rblayzor XMPP: rblayzor.AT.inoc.net PGP: https://pgp.inoc.net/rblayzor/ From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 11:10:56 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3196F5CBF1C for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.in-addr.com (mail.in-addr.com [IPv6:2a01:4f8:191:61e8::2525:2525]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF4Zl6BcSz4XsW for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 11:10:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gpalmer@freebsd.org) Received: from gjp by mail.in-addr.com with local (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1lTjbb-000B6Z-QK for freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:10:47 +0100 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:10:47 +0100 From: Gary Palmer To: Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Portsnap no updates since 3/31/2021 ? Message-ID: References: <68bce42e-69b1-00de-2cf2-dff7e3a43466@inoc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <68bce42e-69b1-00de-2cf2-dff7e3a43466@inoc.net> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: gpalmer@freebsd.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on mail.in-addr.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF4Zl6BcSz4XsW X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:10:56 -0000 On Tue, Apr 06, 2021 at 06:49:17AM -0400, Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable wrote: > I have several servers running 11.4 and 12.2 that do nightly portsnap > updates and the last time they've seen anything new is 3/31/2021, since > then, nothing. > > This seems highly unusual since seems like there was always SOMETHING > updated daily.... now nothing. git transition https://wiki.freebsd.org/git Regular service should resume soon Regards, Gary From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 08:38:18 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DB55C4C51 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:38:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF1Bf1rYRz3lhT for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 08:38:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FB6B5C00E5 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 04:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap38 ([10.202.2.88]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 06 Apr 2021 04:38:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=3hfq/mj0TEvsUsh4cP1QnhM3q++t4+T sS9Xiy/QBaWM=; b=oe5D+iEKEusI8VDurXKJu+vSaR7I1nlOAOFG1HhS3URz6pu Qwm3HO9qcpveyLpgCBbnu0hJamuf1chdIMJR3tj5dMvTCX2KCJQ2Xa2REe1YzTIC 1opnTTInTvWcDAGfOtGWFlo3iaLWVmkgJmZKnuFZJd7nxeNJZVAQHMrG2ApcOID9 I6Tjsb0oSCxYUdfav8bkk3Rl+rEukzVqcDmoFy7HgoyoZEvl8rU5BZhqRs4bs1gG 9l3LHlzQWi57v3IY3AC4AGsAjDgegZ1M54DPqU/lHwriQv7htuCtGkpxidU/kpcJ lhimeCfPsAL1UPdvuZKpUUHZKf/LFYTkx+t08gA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=3hfq/m j0TEvsUsh4cP1QnhM3q++t4+TsS9Xiy/QBaWM=; b=c9hgsot29Kp/Ioxr6y8sVr IZU937RH7aAWC/nCzBXe+/sAbYENugn7t9nV8109fcJcBreLpSKaKSPFBhffKsYR Ia0Qn71DTASmcyxXhO8yalMIeFFGigxF/5/MivaaXfiITSeuQCtW/+3cxAT3yRjH B08l2lWZBAGVkOgl4dfQ0oDGC/D/SdswF2cEYwvQ3ATqrebHM9WL+yJ0dWU9pnaF QbIW/S6AmJmkkM8uJzYMcaE7d36rF/0IlkHa00/5dRDaoOMagdyx/ZNxGvjIBo5D JOUDLFUcognpLNuQvnaEhIvPCpkFtW54XpEP7x0wgscmpX36pg96lxs0SjH1ypFg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudejgedgtdeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttd ertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpegrvhgvnhhtrgguohhrsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmnecu ggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgedvhfdvudduvedvfeegffeivdejieefuddthedtffekueevue fgfedvteekhfelnecuffhomhgrihhnpehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgv rhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprghvvghnthgrughorhesfh grshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id E63AACA005E; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 04:38:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3be2b1b4-dbcc-4429-ad31-f56246ae9a30@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> <22c50a6-7c2c-3fc0-bd5f-42a0ba624c3@io-tx.com> Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 17:37:57 +0900 From: aventador@fastmail.fm To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF1Bf1rYRz3lhT X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.fm header.s=fm2 header.b=oe5D+iEK; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=c9hgsot2; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.fm; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aventador@fastmail.fm designates 66.111.4.28 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aventador@fastmail.fm X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[66.111.4.28:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.111.4.28]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fastmail.fm,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.111.4.28:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[66.111.4.28:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fastmail.fm:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[fastmail.fm:dkim]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[66.111.4.28:from:127.0.2.255]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 11:20:06 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:38:19 -0000 Deprecating base system ftpd does seem to be a good idea, especially for FreeBSD users wanting to use their computer as a workstation/desktop instead of as a server. I think the argument becomes, "who is our target audience?" If the target audience is both server and desktop users, then minimizing the base system makes a lot of sense. FreeBSD is not just for servers anymore. Best Regards, Vic Thacker On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, at 17:21, Gerald de la Pascua wrote: > +1 again from me too, keep it, > > It seems a pointless change of something that it seems a reasonable number > of people are still using, even if there are better tools now, > > G > > > On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:16 PM Ted Hatfield wrote: > > > On Mon, 5 Apr 2021, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > >> Am 03.04.2021 um 22:39 schrieb Ed Maste : > > >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > > > > > A bit late to the party, but my take is: please just don't. > > > > > > I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients > > > from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. > > > > > > People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* > > > on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. > > > > > > TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media > > > via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. > > > Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax transmissions > > > via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to stay. > > > In local networks, of course. > > > > > > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for > > customers > > > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH key > > is. > > > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over > > more > > > than 20 years ... > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > Patrick > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Hear! Hear! > > > > Although I don't have any statistics to back this up this > > has been my experience as well. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Ted Hatfield > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 12:46:15 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67605D05B1 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:46:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF6hl4FKfz4nLs for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:46:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-qk1-f181.google.com (mail-qk1-f181.google.com [209.85.222.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 80520C9DC for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:46:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-qk1-f181.google.com with SMTP id 7so14688999qka.7 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 05:46:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532BzRm7QA5moIRmKdvDu6rUZpu/JS9VPTEXF1FUsJ9zcdPd2vbb uaD2VNHGNsJYX1F3zo4mH24PpiC6eTCDWCQnOFQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxGWojhAsRturwxBuvbGXCLsCZ+u+J85+3FOTKysjcgCl9yioJZUY5Ls1uai4XLzuMtP7rfHbjbswm5KpCsYCo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:798:: with SMTP id 24mr29436242qka.493.1617713175104; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 05:46:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 07:46:02 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Andrea Brancatelli Cc: Daniel Morante , FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:46:15 -0000 On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 5:21 AM Andrea Brancatelli via freebsd-stable < freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> wrote: > On 2021-04-05 02:05, Daniel Morante via freebsd-stable wrote: > > > My vote is for no. > > > > Reasoning is simple... at what point does it stop? By continuously > moving stuff from base to ports, FreeBSD slowly becomes just a Kernel. = =F0=9F=98=89 > > I strongly agree with this consideration. > > Picking a random e-mail in this thread- emaste already declared the effort abandoned because it was clear that there's a strong objection... we don't need to continue litigating this? At some point, a continuous flow of disagreement like this after the fact becomes demotivating in general as it feels more like a dogpile than a constructive effort on the original topic. Thanks, Kyle Evans From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 13:28:36 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53C1E5D14F8 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:28:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hruodr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF7db3xFfz4sGJ for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:28:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hruodr@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id mh7so11960899ejb.12 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 06:28:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=i9XLy+VbmOmTWc/8QVa1FOIOkcC2zQt7923sUB2hzzM=; b=AloA3hQ8mUfHjOkO4mgwR8s4FzpfQpgc2MfVS/YDt++RDeQWm9Hjq/22ie3fpQKd1P 5DyJHYITvVuP2QOyCJgOLDjutqsiE6mtvBj2xiaoNyFW6aFTM/7Z4WO8fKzpQCZCPBP+ 0xfa6M8YtSjyIsU9I4cLN4/x+55N9gRRrXuayEnWZlVIFYvUKPbNCu/SWO6mOFq439AL piqb0xCUfOShcTlea1e3MmOmGH5g02FnayJFAnLDD01ciqEvH+VlkzAmXQ4hZ5DTBEWb bVcxvpN8Wrs4T7y7zt0lIMwvZ4hcLZwz/k5miFKQ5HsLItnCy+j8Izi3tVpXNQDA7nr/ xWJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:user-agent :mime-version; bh=i9XLy+VbmOmTWc/8QVa1FOIOkcC2zQt7923sUB2hzzM=; b=jvlIrsbOrU4EmSCqKruwGNGe1rl4AtPQ8S3kj58zgtnR+uYdYlWdjnFv4edEwy5Wdf JM40QxWNn2CDYv+IVjJrRMz29BT0C19i95iMAj/fVncknZlx05/As0ZxLGylR7jcHEwl 4l8RZq2J3aiAd9DqlajvnVMUSPGWrM9ppiATvU/IZVuz9CGJ81dhNcCNlAEXlm64wHqI /2MQSqTCF9qeUBSnJaDvc5IsT1KOYFKPRYJeykhixzY+yUwgWQ9AtVah26Ii95z9REub cZADvUMDQHuPGepznaIvToLR+4jkF9hJpKzUwAWp2+RRCA6NVRP0jBRZ4ReUOyVWqnEN JCaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533nAleF4cy4hSEvwM+5jO7QyP9uPn+0S1C2L9wYRpmEGoDqP5iV XUAiYY/LYCvreQeNc9bg/B+yEqknVtw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTgmpUCdDCTvNezFZcP20GOzv5BIBKqifb/njvY0QGW4EMieq3F+0I1pVpd05ka0H/ILkK9g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:8043:: with SMTP id x3mr33706088ejw.149.1617715713461; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 06:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.26] (dslb-088-075-233-085.088.075.pools.vodafone-ip.de. [88.75.233.85]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r5sm14221352eds.49.2021.04.06.06.28.32 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Apr 2021 06:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:26:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Roderick To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.23 (BSF 453 2020-06-18) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FF7db3xFfz4sGJ X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=AloA3hQ8; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hruodr@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::62d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hruodr@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[88.75.233.85:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62d:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62d:from:127.0.2.255]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::62d:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 13:28:36 -0000 On Tue, 6 Apr 2021, aventador@fastmail.fm wrote: > Deprecating base system ftpd does seem to be a good idea, > especially for FreeBSD users wanting to use their computer as a > workstation/desktop instead of as a server. I think the argument becomes, > "who is our target audience?" If the target audience is both server and > desktop users, then minimizing the base system makes a lot of sense. FreeBSD > is not just for servers anymore. I will never, never understand this kind of argumantation. A desktop user, and desktop users like a lot of bloat with few functionality, want to deprecate a meager program with a clear functionality only because he do not need it. R. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 15:31:22 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA685D58DB for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 15:31:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFBMG0069z3Ppt for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 15:31:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 136FV7Jl027738 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Apr 2021 15:31:14 GMT (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: aventador@fastmail.fm Received: from [10.58.0.10] (dadvw [10.58.0.10]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 136FBhNc003548 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Apr 2021 22:11:43 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: aventador@fastmail.fm, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> <22c50a6-7c2c-3fc0-bd5f-42a0ba624c3@io-tx.com> <3be2b1b4-dbcc-4429-ad31-f56246ae9a30@www.fastmail.com> From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 22:11:37 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3be2b1b4-dbcc-4429-ad31-f56246ae9a30@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM, NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_FAIL,SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 0.0 SPF_FAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (fail) * [SPF failed: Please see http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom; id=eugen%40grosbein.net; ip=2a03%3A3100%3Ac%3A13%3A%3A5; r=hz.grosbein.net] * 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains * -0.0 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFBMG0069z3Ppt X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=fail (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of eugen@grosbein.net does not designate 2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=eugen@grosbein.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.90 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_FAIL(1.00)[-all:c]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[eugen]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[grosbein.net]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[fastmail.fm,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/29, country:DE]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 15:31:22 -0000 06.04.2021 15:37, aventador@fastmail.fm wrote: > Deprecating base system ftpd does seem to be a good idea, especially for FreeBSD users wanting to use their computer > as a workstation/desktop instead of as a server. I think the argument becomes, "who is our target audience?" > If the target audience is both server and desktop users, then minimizing the base system makes a lot of sense. Stock ftpd is single file /usr/libexec/ftpd sized 112KBytes uncompressed (71KB compressed with ZFS lz4 online compression) and this is less than MAXPHYS=128K in current FreeBSD releases. Minimizing the base system makes it another kind of Linux instead of solid operating system we love. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 17:25:29 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 451D25B1225 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:25:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from smtp1.bway.net (smtp1.bway.net [216.220.96.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFDtw3yj3z3vWd; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:25:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from spork@bway.net) Received: from gaseousweiner.sporklab.com (pool-74-102-83-202.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [74.102.83.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: spork@bway.net) by smtp1.bway.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AFEA695854; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.17\)) Subject: Re: Portsnap no updates since 3/31/2021 ? From: Charles Sprickman In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 13:25:27 -0400 Cc: Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 639422726.954432-4ba1cb426623935cbb588989dd2fe831 Message-Id: <006646A2-F417-4A96-88F5-A52C98259E60@bway.net> References: <68bce42e-69b1-00de-2cf2-dff7e3a43466@inoc.net> To: Gary Palmer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.17) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFDtw3yj3z3vWd X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.40 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:216.220.96.27/32]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bway.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[bway.net,quarantine]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[216.220.96.27:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[74.102.83.202:received]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[216.220.96.27:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[bway.net:dkim]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bway.net:s=mail]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8059, ipnet:216.220.96.0/19, country:US]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[216.220.96.27:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 17:25:29 -0000 > On Apr 6, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Gary Palmer wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Apr 06, 2021 at 06:49:17AM -0400, Robert Blayzor via = freebsd-stable wrote: >> I have several servers running 11.4 and 12.2 that do nightly portsnap >> updates and the last time they've seen anything new is 3/31/2021, = since >> then, nothing. >>=20 >> This seems highly unusual since seems like there was always SOMETHING >> updated daily.... now nothing. >=20 > git transition >=20 > https://wiki.freebsd.org/git Is portsnap still going to be supported? I was noticing my local ports tree (which autoupdates every night with = portsnap) was looking pretty dated, so I started googling and found talk = on the forums that portsnap was going away (this was late 2020) and = folks were suggesting svnlite and fetching updates via svn. Based on = that, I just nuked my ports tree and grabbed it again via git, which = seems to have worked. What=E2=80=99s odd is that looking at that wiki entry, this port should = have been up to date if I was using portsnap: https://www.freshports.org/multimedia/plexmediaserver-plexpass/ = But portsnap kept insisting that I was up to date even though I was = seeing version 1.21.3.4015=E2=80=A6 Anyhow, if anyone can confirm portsnap status, I=E2=80=99d love to know = what the official line is and whether I should expect to see it around = for awhile. Is the git transition impacting freebsd-update at all? etcupdate? Thanks, Charles >=20 > Regular service should resume soon >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Gary > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 19:25:46 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFC35B61E5 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 19:25:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFHYk1GBrz4gKQ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 19:25:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 136JPq1R082396; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:25:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 12:25:52 -0700 From: Chris To: Warner Losh Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <410c8c8764da1dd53b77d07befe91c41@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFHYk1GBrz4gKQ X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 19:25:46 -0000 On 2021-04-03 13:45, Warner Losh wrote: > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 2:40 PM Ed Maste wrote: > >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. I *strongly* object. MacOS also did this. Which made me discover that I could simply copy my already built FreeBSD version over to all my MacOS laptops and now enjoy an even better version than had previously existed. This fact has made my use and need for FreeBSD' ftp even more important. It has also made FreeBSD more popular with the Mac folks. I depend upon ftp(1) && ftpd(8). I have on FreeBSD, for as many years as FreeBSD has existed. I find the ssh and related ports are probed and hammered on constantly. Whereas the ftp ports are quite rare by comparison. So keeping sshd(8) and friends ports closed removes overhead. I have no difficulty managing ftpd(8) via inet(8) && hosts.allow(5). Ftp && ftpd are both trivial programs and should not be considered for removal. If the reason for their suggested removal is "development overhead". Please allow me to maintain both. I will happily assume full responsibility for them. Thank you for listening. :-) --Chris >> >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >> > > I already use one of the ports ftpd's for my needs, so this is fine by me. > I'm agnostic about whether we need a port for what was in base, but suspect > that's likely the path of least resistance. > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 21:28:55 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F7E5BF0B4 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:28:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFLHp6jZPz4y4v; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 21:28:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 136LT2Sl079146; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:29:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 14:29:02 -0700 From: Chris To: Ian Lepore Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFLHp6jZPz4y4v X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 21:28:55 -0000 On 2021-04-04 12:10, Ian Lepore wrote: > On Sat, 2021-04-03 at 16:39 -0400, Ed Maste wrote: >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it >> dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >> >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >> > > I would find the removal of ftpd to be very inconvenient unless there > was a port/pkg to install it from. > > If there is a port, it would only be useful if I could set PREFIX=/usr > when building/installing it, so that its behavior when installed as a > port/pkg would be identical to how it was when it was part of base (in > terms of where its config files are located). I like the sound of that. Except that I'd like to do it one better and suggest something along the lines of PORTS_MODULES in make.conf(5). Maybe PORTS_DAEMONS= ftpd sshd rpcbind nfsd ypbind inetd etc... That might make it a tenable for situation for everyone. ;-) --Chris > > -- Ian > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Tue Apr 6 23:06:34 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A345C161A for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 23:06:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-f178.google.com (mail-il1-f178.google.com [209.85.166.178]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFNST3qpkz55kf for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 23:06:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carpeddiem@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-f178.google.com with SMTP id d2so14561667ilm.10 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 16:06:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9XkQ4VFI/m/n1na1cguLwWjxkuwrWsW4oz+UyrgnbHs=; b=VBwzkSUGfU9CGqkkLDluTICs43IoVexnLLP2U/AQahu2dm3TIlGXusRR5Y7t3wSjwy 16Va16LX72KCu9NZpi58wsjRvOi2RzksZpE6as9pjKHARVhDz13NXNJbPpCIF54H1dBv +MuqHKowej4QZB9ARZy2zNfpdPU0l39/b7MvgH368zlvfV0Y7cdL1EphRwKlqhP9rbcV +SnGYzgF0bLUbioYM82OUNbw3ckxFplYsM+p4zcZQWpBF8yqPiY9eKJa5FNeUV3fs3aE Rqbcrwbuf1n2jbPKQsrA0fscO1yeHjqTa4dQTyyOcvTUy7IZXgSmVatXTqYqUMIlQ/Sp De7w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533N4IFhZZ7QHtw25tnmZ4gkfLiprh/9YbsG0bT78VdUy2GaphNj h2WI4KCuT8aNbNsPtiq0/QsHhVzONqfVpgUPeVw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwDzLLLNE9fq9pMjzqjh8guDAazr0rGB8YSBsy20t48eARo/3J0KohNgbhm0dp/AdCfSOAIAlIILEoT8eOVmGs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1bec:: with SMTP id y12mr486764ilv.98.1617750392461; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 16:06:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <68bce42e-69b1-00de-2cf2-dff7e3a43466@inoc.net> In-Reply-To: <68bce42e-69b1-00de-2cf2-dff7e3a43466@inoc.net> From: Ed Maste Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 19:05:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Portsnap no updates since 3/31/2021 ? To: Robert Blayzor Cc: freebsd-stable stable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFNST3qpkz55kf X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of carpeddiem@gmail.com designates 209.85.166.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=carpeddiem@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.53 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.47)[-0.469]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[209.85.166.178:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[carpeddiem]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[emaste@freebsd.org,carpeddiem@gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[209.85.166.178:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.166.178:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.166.178:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 23:06:34 -0000 On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 at 06:49, Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable wrote: > > I have several servers running 11.4 and 12.2 that do nightly portsnap > updates and the last time they've seen anything new is 3/31/2021, since > then, nothing. > > This seems highly unusual since seems like there was always SOMETHING > updated daily.... now nothing. I am working on converting the portsnap build infrastructure to use git rather than subversion. I do not yet have an ETA. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 00:38:08 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8EC05C4106 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 00:38:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [174.136.98.114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFQV75zZ5z3Fr8 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 00:38:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from [192.168.1.160] (cpe-24-24-163-126.socal.res.rr.com [24.24.163.126]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id bb2f3464 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Wed, 7 Apr 2021 00:38:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: "Kevin P. Neal" , freebsd-stable stable References: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> From: Pete Wright Message-ID: <13a8c80e-4d71-bc8c-e89e-81803545db9a@nomadlogic.org> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:37:54 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFQV75zZ5z3Fr8 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pete@nomadlogic.org designates 174.136.98.114 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@nomadlogic.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.99 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[174.136.98.114:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.29)[0.290]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[174.136.98.114:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25795, ipnet:174.136.96.0/20, country:US]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 00:38:08 -0000 On 4/6/21 5:32 PM, Kevin P. Neal wrote: > On Tue, Apr 06, 2021 at 09:19:27AM +0100, Gerald de la Pascua wrote: >> "Can I ask, for those who do enable it, why isn’t “sftp” acceptable (or >> “scp”)? Both provide a similar function, securely, which also works with a > I just tried to sftp to ftp.freebsd.org. Connection refused. > > I can ftp (or ncftp) to ftp.freebsd.org and download whatever. > > What's the current, secure way to download FreeBSD releases? https? https://download.freebsd.org/ https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/ISO-IMAGES/13.0/ etc. -p -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 05:49:25 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD195CBCF9 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 05:49:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bennett@sdf.org) Received: from mx.sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [205.166.94.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx.sdf.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFYPJ4G5Hz4Rgv; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 05:49:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bennett@sdf.org) Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:bennett@rie.sdf.org [205.166.94.4]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 1375nKn6013548 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Wed, 7 Apr 2021 05:49:21 GMT Received: (from bennett@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 1375nKJm003266; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 00:49:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Bennett Message-Id: <202104070549.1375nKJm003266@sdf.org> Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 00:49:20 -0500 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Vinum deprecation for FreeBSD 14 - are there any remaining Vinum users? User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 6/20/10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFYPJ4G5Hz4Rgv X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.20 / 15.00]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[205.166.94.24:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:205.166.94.0/24]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[205.166.94.24:from:127.0.2.255]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[sdf.org,quarantine]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14361, ipnet:205.166.94.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 05:49:25 -0000 Ed, On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 13:25:44 -0400 Ed Maste wrote: >Vinum is a Logical Volume Manager that was introduced in FreeBSD 3.0, >and for FreeBSD 5 was ported to geom(4) as gvinum. gvinum has had no >specific development at least as far back as 2010 and it is not clear >how well it works today. There are open PRs with reports of panics >upon removing disks, etc. And, it also imposes an ongoing cost as it First off, the "port" to geom(4) was incomplete in that gvinum is somehow not restricted to the geom(4) device nodes presented to it, but instead always grabs the entire physical device and node to do its own label processing. Second, gvinum is completely incompatible with GPT partitioning because, regardless of the device nodes given it to use, it always writes and reads its own label to and from the ends of the physical drives. That means it overwrites the GPT secondary partition table with its own labels, which soon causes error/warning messages from the kernel about a damaged/missing secondary partition table and recommending a recovery of that damaged/missing partition table. Doing the recovery then will overwrite gvinum's labels, which is likely to cause a kernel panic or worse. My memory on gvinum's compatibility with glabel(8) labels is fuzzy at the present remove, but I seem to recall having encountered problems there, too. This is not unique, unfortunately, to gvinum(8). For example, using glabel(8) to label swap partitions, as well as bsdlabel(8)ed partitions, can lead to many unexpected problems. Such inconsistencies should be researched and fixed. GPT labels allow a partition type of "freebsd-vinum". I did not try to play with that one, but I suspect that it would not work correctly because gvinum is somehow not limited to the GEOM device node for a partition. However, if you decide to keep gvinum(8) for some reason, then this matter should be checked out in detail and its inconsistencies fixed.. At least w.r.t. gvinum's raid5, I can attest that the kernel panics are real. Before settling on ZFS raidz2 for my largest storage pool, I experimented with gstripe(8), gmirror(8), graid3(8), and graid5(8) (from sysutils/graid5). All worked reasonably well, except for one operation, namely, "stop". Most/all such devices cannot actually be stopped because a stopped device does not *stay* stopped. As soon as the GEOM device node is destroyed, all disks are retasted, their labels, if any, are recognized, and their corresponding device nodes are recreated and placed back on line. :-( All of this happens too quickly for even a series of commands entered on one line to be able to unload the kernel module for the device node type in question, so there is no practical way to stop such a device once it has been started. Because gvinum's raid5 was always unbearably slow and also subject to kernel panics, I soon excluded it from further consideration. GEOM is one of the brightest gems of modern FreeBSD design. GEOM's native functions should not be corrupted or ignored as a result of a botched attempt to "modernize" an old monstrosity like gvinum, which was originally written for a system that lacked GEOM and has not fit well into a modern system that *has* GEOM, not to mention GPT partitioning. All of these specific, native GEOM second-level devices otherwise work pretty much as advertised. graid5(8), however, was recently marked as deprecated, which is a real shame. I would vote for finishing its man page, which is very incomplete, and for adding a subcommand to do some sort of scrub procedure like many hardware RAID5 controllers do. There are perfectly valid reasons to use these devices in some situations instead of ZFS, e.g., better performance for temporary/disposable data, especially for situations involving millions of very short files like ccache(1) directory trees, portmaster(8)'s $WRKDIRPREFIX, and likely others. gvinum(8) appears to have been broken in several ways since FreeBSD 5.0, is unmaintained as you wrote, and should be deprecated and eliminated for the reasons given above. The simple GEOM devices provide much the same flexibility that gvinum was intended to provide without the need to learn gvinum's peculiar configuration method. Once one understands how GEOM devices work and can be stacked, they are generally very simple to use in contrast to gvinum, which remains broken in multiple ways. >must be updated when other work is done (such as the recent MAXPHYS >work). I suspect that by now all users have migrated to either >graid(8) or ZFS. graid(8) is not always a good option. If you read its man page, you will see that RAID5 is usually only supported as read-only devices, where it is supported at all. This can be helpful for recovering data from a proprietary RAID device, but is not generally useful for actively used and updated data. IOW, it can be helpful in a potentially large number of situations for some users, especially for data recovery, but that is a different purpose from that for which the other GEOM RAID commands were written to serve. Again, IMO, gstripe(8), gmirror(8), graid3(8), and graid5(8) from sysutils/graid5 should be improved, not eliminated. Anything gvinum(8) is *supposed* to be able to do, but often cannot do without violating other system functions, can be done well by these other GEOM commands. A special note is needed here regarding gcache(8) and graid3(8). The documentation of gcache parameters for sector size for physical devices and gcache logical devices is very unclear, such that a user must have the device nodes and space on them available to create test cases and do so, whereas a properly documented gcache(8) would obviate the need to set up such experiments. There is similar lack of clarity in various size specifications for blocks, sectors, records, etc. in many of the man pages for native GEOM commands. While you are looking into this situation, please also consider that deprecation and elimination of the veritably ancient ccd and ccdconfig are long overdue. Even the man pages state that these device nodes are *not* robust and data can be easily lost. The fact that NetBSD separately maintains some version of ccd and ccdconfig should be considered irrelevant in deciding to deprecate and/or eliminate the supporting code from the source tree. > >I plan to add a deprecation notice after a short discussion period, >assuming no reasonable justification is made to retain it. The notice >would suggest graid and ZFS as alternatives, and would be merged in >advance of FreeBSD 13.1. Then, gvinum would be removed in advance of >FreeBSD 14.0. > >Please follow up if you have experience or input on vinum in FreeBSD, >including past use but especially if you are still using it today and >expect to continue doing so. Given the panics and other problems with gvinum(8), I cannot recommend that anyone use it. After experimenting with it, I ended up using ZFS, gmirror(8), graid5(8), and gconcat(8) to meet my needs. In sum, I recommend maintaining and enhancing to some degree the native GEOM support and letting unfinished and/or unmaintained support for gvinum(8), ccd(8) (and ccd(4)), and ccdconfig(8) be abandoned. Please reverse the deprecation for sysutils/graid5, which actually works as specified, and complete its man page. Please also add a scrub function to it. RAID5, whether by hardware or by software, has known limitations, but for some purposes it is not only adequate, but is a better choice than ZFS. GEOM-based RAID support is also much for versatile and flexible than hardware RAID, so let's keep it available as an option. At the same time, the poorly supported, obsolete, and incompatible-with- other-system-components stuff should rightly be eliminated from the source tree. The few known bugs with the native GEOM commands can and should be fixed. Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ********************************************************************** * Internet: bennett at sdf.org *xor* bennett at freeshell.org * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * "A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army." * * -- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * ********************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 06:06:34 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 022BA5CC46F for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:06:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from hz.grosbein.net (hz.grosbein.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c2c:26d8::2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hz.grosbein.net", Issuer "hz.grosbein.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFYn55nflz4SKR; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:06:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Received: from eg.sd.rdtc.ru (eg.sd.rdtc.ru [IPv6:2a03:3100:c:13:0:0:0:5]) by hz.grosbein.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 13766QfO050143 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:06:28 GMT (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) X-Envelope-From: eugen@grosbein.net X-Envelope-To: bennett@sdf.org Received: from [10.58.0.10] (dadvw [10.58.0.10]) by eg.sd.rdtc.ru (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 13766LMk019535 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 7 Apr 2021 13:06:21 +0700 (+07) (envelope-from eugen@grosbein.net) Subject: Re: Vinum deprecation for FreeBSD 14 - are there any remaining Vinum users? To: Scott Bennett , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <202104070549.1375nKJm003266@sdf.org> From: Eugene Grosbein Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 13:06:14 +0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202104070549.1375nKJm003266@sdf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOCAL_FROM, NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_FAIL,SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Report: * -2.3 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 0.0 SPF_FAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (fail) * [SPF failed: Please see http://www.openspf.org/Why?s=mfrom; id=eugen%40grosbein.net; ip=2a03%3A3100%3Ac%3A13%3A%3A5; r=hz.grosbein.net] * 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record * 2.6 LOCAL_FROM From my domains * -0.0 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on hz.grosbein.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFYn55nflz4SKR X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 06:06:34 -0000 07.04.2021 12:49, Scott Bennett via freebsd-stable wrote: > At least w.r.t. gvinum's raid5, I can attest that the kernel panics > are real. Before settling on ZFS raidz2 for my largest storage pool, I > experimented with gstripe(8), gmirror(8), graid3(8), and graid5(8) (from > sysutils/graid5). All worked reasonably well, except for one operation, > namely, "stop". Most/all such devices cannot actually be stopped because > a stopped device does not *stay* stopped. As soon as the GEOM device > node is destroyed, all disks are retasted, their labels, if any, are > recognized, and their corresponding device nodes are recreated and placed > back on line. :-( All of this happens too quickly for even a series of > commands entered on one line to be able to unload the kernel module for > the device node type in question, so there is no practical way to stop > such a device once it has been started. In fact, you can disable re-tasting with sysctl kern.geom.notaste=1, stop an GEOM, clear its lables and re-enable tasting setting kern.geom.notaste=0 back. > A special note is needed here regarding gcache(8) and graid3(8). The > documentation of gcache parameters for sector size for physical devices > and gcache logical devices is very unclear, such that a user must have the > device nodes and space on them available to create test cases and do so, > whereas a properly documented gcache(8) would obviate the need to set up > such experiments. There is similar lack of clarity in various size > specifications for blocks, sectors, records, etc. in many of the man pages > for native GEOM commands. I found gcache(8) very nice at first, it really boosts UFS performance provided you have extra RAM to dedicate to its cache. gcache can be stacked with gmirror etc. but I found it guilty to some obscure UFS-related panics. It seems there were races or something. No data loss, though as it is intended to be transparent for writing. I was forced to stop using gcache for sake of stability and it's a shame. For example, dump(8) speed-up due to gcache was 2x at least with big cache comparing to dump -C32 without gcache. From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 09:42:52 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64B545D16FB for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 09:42:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pcc@gmx.net) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFfZg2wsFz4m29 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 09:42:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pcc@gmx.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1617788569; bh=gz60mN1M24YwCjdXZFS1YqdUvBc2c2qtpR7R2kQYYKQ=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:Date; b=DjUO0St7UHgbXgh8oyKqe+63XfSh1SGxEEtL95Kv3GxqGgrT3gTN+2oZEeLGXlvQl T03p0yMWNgJCoK9uwyk1dVAaCgjBDsK8B4xPNW22KvKp38c+uG9ZCUIeJpVtcGTwQm gpbRs+Ltk0hLIEUMhiId3cPcM1HNO/VPLaljyZKk= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [77.185.156.154] ([77.185.156.154]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-gmx-bs02.server.lan [172.19.170.51]) (via HTTP); Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:37:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Peter Cornelius To: FreeBSD-stable@Freebsd.org Subject: JMicron jms561 umass on arm64? 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=C2=A0 I'm trying to get mine [2] to work under FreeBSD [3] but it does not even = show up with usbconfig list=2E While, with Raspbian, I was able to make it = work easily=2E =C2=A0 Thanks, =C2=A0 Peter=2E =C2=A0 --- =C2=A0 [1] I believe, https://www=2Ejmicron=2Ecom/file/download/1026/JMS561_Produ= ct+Brief=2Epdf [2] https://wiki=2Eradxa=2Ecom/Dual_Quad_SATA_HAT[https://wiki=2Eradxa=2Ec= om/Dual_Quad_SATA_HAT] [3] Note: Later builds so far have not booted despite of current u-boot (M= arch 2021) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 FreeBSD rpi4 14=2E0-CURRENT FreeBSD 14=2E0-CURRENT #1: Tue F= eb 23 02:30:31 UTC 2021 =C2=A0=C2=A0 root@rpi4:/usr/obj/usr/src/arm64=2Eaarch64/sys/GENERIC =C2= =A0arm64 =C2=A0 From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 12:18:02 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890AD5D574F for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 12:18:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFk1j5wfnz3FRD for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 12:18:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9C05C00ED for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 08:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 07 Apr 2021 08:18:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zyxst.net; h= date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=fm2; bh=lTfs3qSKxAaxTSqzwnvor4j4Hsa 4mTA9yAwQYVjAnws=; b=WLeEv/VsWow4Er7DDcfJU1jXnjehVD7LuzpqZOWOctJ FORLUFBf03BhwcSKA66uKBBI4Pe7b1hBewO+nijPgkp3fBq/cMRkigqwGDqloB+R UL0ponob/hESmysCXhl3kBKoOCQ8Ab971KwMlOghiL6PDTDfIse//EQVLbe2d4k3 GzKwwym1Z4MSZjzuazB0++FHZZR8B9xVLojBiRj7UCOtcfbHN7hFl6XkJOF/fFUw 1hBqSxlxgWvakBnUU8EPggG9+ZQjbmPJ1uX/+29zk1q7Q8cHuFNSpA6MY6Uc9Fjl 3DjoShNoXn6mhWMjJhJIMZpz1iKrcDhCCShf9qZ5gpA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=lTfs3q SKxAaxTSqzwnvor4j4Hsa4mTA9yAwQYVjAnws=; b=YwIvCv2EtIEZxegPguNNZ2 dx5/AT0QNnpkl80jgrVI4iBRM687k0o03KJerUs0STGDNp7DvT87lltGPJlbCVBD 4VXBqi7sixzygNFYegEJagY044+48CrPtM/4Bi4N5s8ldpVgTxyA3OZpKd2PdLTf RABCU/KIJZKqZxa6zXqV7Ur6/pKKDu8HcjtY6wxnd/KIfuq9NRZ126aUHR7ZWlKY bL5a/fqcd7/jv00eXln1xW7Mpj9IudCxW+1El9+V3HXl4yFgvWFcPGS/s4eF1WDc DpTzFV2U0p1GAiY3OTB4akL4K1khLcEX1tB/lT7tJruK5YhIlNnjS/nAGSRxwDAA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudejjedggeelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesghdtre ertddtvdenucfhrhhomhepthgvtghhqdhlihhsthhsuceothgvtghhqdhlihhsthhsseii hiigshhtrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedtheeigfdvudefkeekvddtfedvte dttdekuddvgeevlefftdekffdujedvhfduteenucfkphepkedvrdejtddrledurddutddt necuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepthgvtg hhqdhlihhsthhsseiihiigshhtrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: from ceres.zyxst.net (ceres.zyxst.net [82.70.91.100]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8D184108005C for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 08:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 12:17:58 +0000 From: tech-lists To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vG9A7aQLoCZmJvvi" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFk1j5wfnz3FRD X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=zyxst.net header.s=fm2 header.b=WLeEv/Vs; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=YwIvCv2E; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tech-lists@zyxst.net designates 66.111.4.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tech-lists@zyxst.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.70 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[zyxst.net:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[66.111.4.27:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.111.4.27]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zyxst.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[zyxst.net:+,messagingengine.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.111.4.27:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 12:18:02 -0000 --vG9A7aQLoCZmJvvi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'm a bit late to the discussion On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 07:44:59AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: >I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > >- remove ftp(1) >- remove ftpd(8) >- remove telnet(1) >- remove telnetd(8) >- remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all >use https://. >- replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS >traffic? Very firmly against this, and this sort of thing, for the following reasons: 1. I want an OS, not a kernel. If I just want a kernel, then why not go with linux? FreeBSD is meant to be, I think, (generally), a server OS.=20 So, would you agree that it needs the ability to have server protocols=20 easily configured, with a minimum of fuss, without packages? 2. a lot of infrastructure depends on ftpd. it's easy to configure securely ftpd in base. 3. there are some networks, like internal ones, where encryption is not a requirement, or appropriate. 4. there are some places where encryption is in fact illegal. >Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely >on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the >last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the >FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a >passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base >system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we >have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. 5. some services commonly don't use https. Lots of internet radio stations don't. If https is enforced then the user will have to jump through more hoops than they already do in order to, in this case, listen to internet radio. Or face a loss of functionality. 6. not everywhere will have constant internet access. Not everyone will want to use pkgs or have space for the ports tree. >I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted >protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. I think you should carefully think of the consequences of removing functionality in the default install. It will make it less useful, not more. --=20 J. --vG9A7aQLoCZmJvvi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8n3tWhxW11Ccvv9/s8o7QhFzNAUFAmBtou0ACgkQs8o7QhFz NAXy3RAAjfR97qYe+4+u9NrcpwcA8rKtxiffqt85Y9YnbcRAlWgoC8bK1mtM+XXf 2yg6reHcpI2S1ZWvzmpNFJW3zQP0+VLwPEhbRz1nUohJabruyLcWnOcUawu0wf08 3Edq1zFchnzGY+XGTyTyAdRPobdUAyIXPg1FxRtWmpZebflEE7A0KUj8rrM1V6+X QMi9Sr4sktkLTlrTNwuQgRG0nd6cBhTUOnijHKOj0RB12wusexzRRqzxb1H5RYvG nZfiCy3qykhaqdx/bX/FnTN6EL959nmXZzim3gZ3/SY9evESnYb+/DOVgGQieoWC hYSm7wfUhWDpzzUY7/9rFwqqEQaU0zVcjrShJMd+QlqcrgwJ+llmDZtAA7QNj8fZ zeww8WP8R3kuOH31FkUl5K5zTA5gk8StDqhULCn5wMQxV1Yc6vyNhHudqpqzAR/n mFypp7ErR7PPkGnWOKMkiYc1HX8RYGO/uy8s6C8oPo2SE5HFyOyOL78tuIxICrup bj7PLF5X7pQLb2fgQx2jVgXKDZFEuYoHVM5/1gC+ht5WUR0Vt9tl+6AgOfHwOkhh 8290zhTWRYgDF67CQV9JTeuNjYHjaOQyZuYabdg5dJmyexnl1N/2xBBy6Z0bWb7y aPM1T1wI3AEvkwCIWyWI7TtUOqnV5zCLghkydLorYxqomQO+Gbo= =WOZi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vG9A7aQLoCZmJvvi-- From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 17:06:25 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 020075BDB03 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:06:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFrQS3qv7z3vG2 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:06:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 137H6XWO019465 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 10:06:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 10:06:33 -0700 From: Chris To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <72489149a8e137fac90c88e4a45c5b09@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFrQS3qv7z3vG2 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:06:25 -0000 On 2021-04-05 07:44, Cy Schubert wrote: > In message om> > , Ed Maste writes: >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > - remove ftp(1) > - remove ftpd(8) > - remove telnet(1) > - remove telnetd(8) > - remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > use https://. > - replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > traffic? You've clearly never worked on extremely large networks. Or at least not considered them in this statement -- think LAN/intranet in large corporate settings. ftp(1) as well as ftpd(8) are lightweight, and utilitarian. It's because of this that gives them such great value. They require nothing to use. They just work with no setup required. With very little setup you can manage something a little more sophisticated. I can easily script ftp for complex situations needing nothing more than sh(1) and ftp(1), and it's all available right-out-of-the-box. This isn't true of the others. In an internet public facing scenario. It's enough to utilize one specific line in inetd(8) and 2 in hosts.allow(2). This simplicity and lack of overhead is not available with the other options. Because something is old and un-featured does not make it valueless. > >> >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? A port would be a nice option. But it should remain an option; as in one _should_ be allowed to get ftp || ftpd out of the box if they so choose. > > I've started working on splitting ftp and ftpd into an external git repo. > The problem I've encountered is that though only ftp and ftpd are left the > resultant repo is still 1.2 GB. If my last attempt fails, there is a choice > between a 1.2 GB repo and burning ftp forever then the choice is clear: > burn it forever. > > Adding the following as an option: > > Also note that the tnftp ports are the NetBSD ftp and ftpd. The FreeBSD ftp > and ftpd are simply copies of tnftp and tnfpd. Would it make more sense to > share our customizations with NetBSD and we simply reply on NetBSD for the > client and server in our ports? This last option might be simpler than > creating a port. > > Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely > on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we > have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. This assumes your willing to expend all the time and overhead to setup a web server for a simple but absolutely mandatory one time task. When none of the boxes you're working on are slated for or perhaps are even capable of running as much. I (or anyone) should be able to have a FULLY functional system WITHOUT the need to get additional sources to build additional functionality -- this ain't Linux. > > I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. Not everyone works exclusively "in the wild". Many also work within safe environments, where such things, while nice, are unnecessary. --Chris From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 17:27:44 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B34595BE42F for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:27:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFrv43LHFz4RPt for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:27:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 137HRrCl054016 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 10:27:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 10:27:53 -0700 From: Chris To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> References: <425D60FC-3A9A-4DFA-B793-13B821AFDA7D@codelibre.net> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <422d7bdf951a2f0c395f2eedc27bedbb@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFrv43LHFz4RPt X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:27:44 -0000 On 2021-04-05 11:27, Roger Leigh wrote: > On 3 Apr 2021, at 22:21, Eugene Grosbein wrote: >> >> 04.04.2021 3:39, Ed Maste wrote: >> >>> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >>> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >>> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. >>> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped >>> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it >>> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. >>> >>> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? >> >> I'm strongly against remove of stock ftpd. FTP is fastest protocol for both >> testing >> and daily file transfer for trusted isolated segments, and even for WAN >> wrapped in IPSec. >> >> Our stock ftpd has very short backlog of security issues comparing with >> other FTP server implementations, >> mostly linked with libc or other libraries and not with ftpd code itself. >> >> Please don't fix what ain't broken. Please. > > How would you draw the line between something that must be part of the base > system > vs. something that would be better off as part of the ports tree? What bar > should > ftpd have to meet to warrant remaining in base vs moving to ports? > > Personally, I’ve never enabled it nor had any desire to. FTP is, at this > point in > time, thoroughly obsolescent, and I cannot imagine that it is something that > most > people enable, if they are even aware of its existence. Why can’t it simply > be > installed from the ports for the occasional user who still requires it? Why > should the base system contain obsolete stuff that few people will use? > Surely > the ports tree serves this need better? > > Can I ask, for those who do enable it, why isn’t “sftp” acceptable (or > “scp”)? Sure. Because it's part of a one-time task. It might be part of a server setup. Or might a task that must be done on thousands of machines. It needs to be available out-of-the-box, and needs no overhead for setup (key exchange, config, etc...). This scenario may also be on machines w/o any external sources/packages. IOW everything should be available out of the box, with little to no additional setup overhead. ftp(1), and ftpd(8) provide everything required at no additional cost. :-) > Both provide a similar function, securely, which also works with a basic > installation without any ports. SSHFXP, the protocol underlying sftp is > better > specified, less ambiguous and more fault tolerant and safe than the FTP > protocol > ever was. The client is better than most ftp clients, and the server > (/usr/libexec/sftp-server) is started on demand on a per-connection basis. > What > makes FTP more desirable than a service over SSH which is (from a technical > and > usability point of view) a better FTP than FTP ever was? > > Kind regards, > Roger > --Chris From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 17:38:31 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61CB95BE8BF for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:38:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFs7W17c1z4SPT for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:38:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 137HceY3013770 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 10:38:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 10:38:40 -0700 From: Chris To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> References: <6051E091-200B-4A7F-9A53-86652425BBB6@punkt.de> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFs7W17c1z4SPT X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:38:31 -0000 On 2021-04-05 12:01, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > Hi all, > >> Am 03.04.2021 um 22:39 schrieb Ed Maste : >> I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? > > A bit late to the party, but my take is: please just don't. > > I absolutely freaked out when Apple removed the telnet and ftp clients > from Mac OS and I needed to reinstall them via MacPorts. That route uses an inferior (opinion) version of ftp(1) && ftpd(8). It might interest you to know that the FreeBSD versions that (currently) already come with FreeBSD can be copied over to your Mac. I *too* became upset when I found MacOS w/o these, and on a hunch tried it, and worked as intended/expected. The FreeBSD version(s) are more "featurefull" than those that originally came on the Mac, or the GNU one that is supplied w/MacPorts. > > People who manage any larger collection of networking gear *depend* > on these outdated but simple services. Client and server side alike. > > TFTP is not going away, neither is FTP. I'm dead serious. Remote media > via Supermicro IPMI in 2021? SMB1. Firmware updates for my UPS? FTP. > Scanner/printer/fax all-in-one thingy? Uploads received fax transmissions > via FTP. PBX? Uploads usage reports via FTP. This stuff is here to stay. > In local networks, of course. > > But still even on "the Internet", FTP is the most used method for customers > of static website hosting. You cannot teach these people what an SSH key is. > Just my experience, but backed by a load of customer interactions over more > than 20 years ... > > Kind regards, > Patrick > -- > punkt.de GmbH > Patrick M. Hausen > .infrastructure > > Kaiserallee 13a > 76133 Karlsruhe > > Tel. +49 721 9109500 > > https://infrastructure.punkt.de > info@punkt.de > > AG Mannheim 108285 > Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein --Chris From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 17:49:11 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5045BF00D for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:49:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFsMq3tf9z4TN0 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:49:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 137HnL10098129 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 10:49:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 10:49:21 -0700 From: Chris To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <29362972cabfc62649f5a3d59a746774@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFsMq3tf9z4TN0 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:49:11 -0000 On 2021-04-05 13:43, Ed Maste wrote: > On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 at 16:39, Ed Maste wrote: >> >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > > I posted this as a proposal for community feedback, and there's > clearly a strong objection to removing the base system ftpd. So, I'm > not going to pursue this any further. I like to take the time to extend a massive _Thank You_ for your chosen course for handling this. I'm also grateful for it's outcome. :-) Thanks! --Chris > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 17:53:36 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4AE5BF1EE for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:53:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi1-f174.google.com (mail-oi1-f174.google.com [209.85.167.174]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFsSw0fKGz4V2G; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 17:53:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi1-f174.google.com with SMTP id d12so19611020oiw.12; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 10:53:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KXEZisIFKFcu83JtQobPqCBDyQWKtSDFBHJFh9XHx2c=; b=hMkD+HQx2HhXPq4q5VkOnq7mwsc44SIzljA8ZN/FuhuDjJSVlLs2RK+wCkOS5A5+M2 G26atT9PbaI3P/9wTA1cBAIBIpyc8f+CSJ0/27Fl9u6hYadEaWUpE9zuie1zlU/gMB+7 9/j9o+lUQu71m16ENkJXYp6YXUyE7devf5xcXnAxlf5thW6YkTW/MEQ1cSr+E8sssObY 0rZes2Fhk+MMjvmxlg/rm2jys+xWX0h3XvrWdxb3QtIqqrF2msfwqq7YRWUU2aCapEGB QZHeKSv6bjyWeHwtjG8dW+05QyRZYABGlAp6UT2BhucGvnpIDub2OWLhqD+vnzy9r8Al 3IcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5306VFKFZKvC8lwYkShfZXRfIzozS5icr21KZ/BaZSJEoQhtoGDN KLZ3ILNm7HppCeck4k116fe0be3hS5sNPP536LOmyjLCq24= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJDas4ol+Abol1ATgvvCTAcdazQMvpQzcQL4PrQ6H9TiRa767Hqs5bCFuKWGtHi8F+J3GkUO3cQjKWyzoO+LQ= X-Received: by 2002:aca:3046:: with SMTP id w67mr3020910oiw.57.1617818014754; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 10:53:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <410c8c8764da1dd53b77d07befe91c41@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: <410c8c8764da1dd53b77d07befe91c41@bsdforge.com> From: Alan Somers Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:53:23 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: Chris Cc: Warner Losh , Ed Maste , freebsd-stable stable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFsSw0fKGz4V2G X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:53:36 -0000 On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 1:25 PM Chris wrote: > On 2021-04-03 13:45, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 2:40 PM Ed Maste wrote: > > > >> I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > >> before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > >> (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > >> I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > >> off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > >> had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > I *strongly* object. MacOS also did this. Which made me discover that I > could simply copy my already built FreeBSD version over to all my MacOS > laptops and now enjoy an even better version than had previously existed. > This fact has made my use and need for FreeBSD' ftp even more important. > It has also made FreeBSD more popular with the Mac folks. > I depend upon ftp(1) && ftpd(8). I have on FreeBSD, for as many years as > FreeBSD has existed. I find the ssh and related ports are probed and > hammered on constantly. Whereas the ftp ports are quite rare by comparison. > So keeping sshd(8) and friends ports closed removes overhead. I have no > difficulty managing ftpd(8) via inet(8) && hosts.allow(5). Ftp && ftpd > are both trivial programs and should not be considered for removal. > If the reason for their suggested removal is "development overhead". > Please allow me to maintain both. I will happily assume full > responsibility for them. > > Thank you for listening. :-) > Great! Even though they work well, they haven't seen a lot of TLC. What really worries me most is that ftpd has zero test coverage. It would be great to fix that, and not too hard. You could start be adapting the existing tests in libexec/tftpd/tests/ . Capscium support would be nice, too. -Alan From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 18:56:06 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD4D75C0C88 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 18:56:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x633.google.com (mail-ej1-x633.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::633]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFts20CXJz4ZP2 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 18:56:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ej1-x633.google.com with SMTP id u17so23137599ejk.2 for ; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:56:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kTCZNQcP76/u+HyhfsnRFt6Jem7yAT0RTPBfbxZ4W5g=; b=nMDM3vpklYZYs4EfR4M8VJnPKW4Km3+4o79rFEg278v666GkS/uzqECpWDUOua2bgD GV7WjwsveOS5vKSukrXOu77dyofcZA/j4gHOYUD8CSDb0iFn1Op5lsY0DHydxTMRTKH6 mvHg85kF1psJxyIrUOUipM7rI+GF6UHVbvzasnv6z0LXorkuclfW6+A4/94a4Sqa+XP/ 7GRiflaA/wEssCJjHR9K/CeYJV2S6o/63GqxorhlcjXYLz971fcsapfX2h1hWcwEpYUn jilTHQKpqz82e+bfGBnxOxb9Vl/zTs5C/rI5iIxVUMmjJtHPMvBQ0dvdCv3TxGW7KJwX DOIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=kTCZNQcP76/u+HyhfsnRFt6Jem7yAT0RTPBfbxZ4W5g=; b=n9Ip0gOmp//E7SoMPHXt3vRMLtF/xrL556WEOdpCDWjxK7552N9ahH6s9NOLNNve9T sXUbZwAhJtzGWeSkTgZ2VpB1CSaMz/iLdTaY1O//7YQr1M8s6zkcERMGcF7gKXV1oz55 N1aDRx3cQviN5OEBThM7sSHGvEfJxc94y/oZ5rQaSjcudSsXGk3TW7ySEYAfAEV472vV +Bn5L0M6+RKHNiRpwpbvtXJ7oUvLlHGVKvP8HhRP5EYzqJMEHQ4/k+BswEacpKZg18Hx Y4he7PtNR5qGvPKtgMEshnLOKbgkd9zOah/J9yPunKZOfY2p/JS1C0Zp9emB+nbqdr13 C/0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530KWEGPx86q+m/HPiwmX80ztCXXh02Hl/wxXt4SW3K7R8h86xxd egMqmm0MN1bYift1QdGinqvpfvHJeJ8x2CpK8xGOklwYJkw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyt6zfwRAphYkTCfCupbdGmShHZUb/J4mnX3+LBgQcBpK0y7Aa0Ejlh7VXBLVNvZE8pPxwbKN1dpUzbLFyb8L4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:32cb:: with SMTP id k11mr5554572ejk.158.1617821763615; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:56:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> In-Reply-To: From: Kurt Buff Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 12:55:51 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? To: "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFts20CXJz4ZP2 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=nMDM3vpk; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kurtbuff@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::633 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kurtbuff@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::633:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::633:from:127.0.2.255]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::633:from]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 18:56:06 -0000 On Wed, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:18 AM tech-lists wrote: > > Hi, I'm a bit late to the discussion > > On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 07:44:59AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: > > >I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > > >- remove ftp(1) > >- remove ftpd(8) > >- remove telnet(1) > >- remove telnetd(8) > >- remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > >use https://. > >- replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > >traffic? > > Very firmly against this, and this sort of thing, for the following reasons: > > 1. I want an OS, not a kernel. If I just want a kernel, then why not go > with linux? FreeBSD is meant to be, I think, (generally), a server OS. > So, would you agree that it needs the ability to have server protocols > easily configured, with a minimum of fuss, without packages? > > 2. a lot of infrastructure depends on ftpd. it's easy to configure > securely ftpd in base. > > 3. there are some networks, like internal ones, where encryption is not > a requirement, or appropriate. > > 4. there are some places where encryption is in fact illegal. > > >Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely > >on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > >last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > >FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > >passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > >system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we > >have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. > > 5. some services commonly don't use https. Lots of internet radio > stations don't. If https is enforced then the user will have to jump > through more hoops than they already do in order to, in this case, > listen to internet radio. Or face a loss of functionality. > > 6. not everywhere will have constant internet access. Not everyone will > want to use pkgs or have space for the ports tree. > > >I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > >protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. > > I think you should carefully think of the consequences of removing > functionality in the default install. It will make it less useful, not > more. > -- > J. To amplify this a bit: Those who are all about secure protocols (and I'm one of them) should realize that public cryptography (not just public key, but public use of cryptographic protocols i general) is not a solved problem. In particular, multi-party key management in an open Internet is problematic. Open or plain text protocols do have a place. Kurt From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 19:43:04 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7DC5C2494 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFvvD6Hx1z4fbL for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D7FD45C23BA; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:43:04 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B7C5C2419; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFvvD29fPz4fpZ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:43:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) X-Originating-IP: 195.64.148.76 Received: from [192.168.0.88] (unknown [195.64.148.76]) (Authenticated sender: andriy.gapon@uabsd.com) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8846FC0004; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:42:58 +0000 (UTC) To: freebsd-stable List , FreeBSD Current From: Andriy Gapon Subject: stable/13, vm page counts do not add up Message-ID: <0606571f-fec0-c7ad-98e8-a0b8554918e2@FreeBSD.org> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 22:42:57 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFvvD29fPz4fpZ X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:217.70.176.0/20, country:FR] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:43:05 -0000 I regularly see that the top's memory line does not add up (and by a lot). That can be seen with vm.stats as well. For example: $ sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 3231 vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 262058 vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 3054178 vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 621131 vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 1871176 vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 187777 vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 8134982 $ bc >>> 187777 + 1871176 + 621131 + 3054178 + 262058 5996320 >>> 8134982 - 5996320 2138662 As you can see, it's not a small number of pages either. Approximately 2 million pages, 8 gigabytes or 25% of the whole memory on this system. This is 47c00a9835926e96, 13.0-STABLE amd64. I do not think that I saw anything like that when I used (much) older FreeBSD. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 19:54:42 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D4865C2ABC for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:54:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFw8f27sGz4h0j for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:54:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 479D35C2D28; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:54:42 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4752A5C2A2D; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 19:54:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x829.google.com (mail-qt1-x829.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::829]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFw8f1P1hz4gZY; 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charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0606571f-fec0-c7ad-98e8-a0b8554918e2@FreeBSD.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFw8f1P1hz4gZY X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:54:42 -0000 On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 10:42:57PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > I regularly see that the top's memory line does not add up (and by a lot). > That can be seen with vm.stats as well. > > For example: > $ sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count > vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 > vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 3231 > vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 262058 > vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 3054178 > vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 621131 > vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 1871176 > vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 187777 > vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 8134982 > > $ bc > >>> 187777 + 1871176 + 621131 + 3054178 + 262058 > 5996320 > >>> 8134982 - 5996320 > 2138662 > > As you can see, it's not a small number of pages either. > Approximately 2 million pages, 8 gigabytes or 25% of the whole memory on this > system. > > This is 47c00a9835926e96, 13.0-STABLE amd64. > I do not think that I saw anything like that when I used (much) older FreeBSD. One relevant change is that vm_page_wire() no longer removes pages from LRU queues, so the count of pages in the queues can include wired pages. If the page daemon runs, it will dequeue any wired pages that are encountered. This was done to reduce queue lock contention, operations like sendfile() which transiently wire pages would otherwise trigger two queue operations per page. Now that queue operations are batched this might not be as important. We could perhaps add a new flavour of vm_page_wire() which is not lazy and would be suited for e.g., the buffer cache. What is the primary source of wired pages in this case? From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 20:22:45 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E965C37E1 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFwn16Fjtz4jx5 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id D4CC45C3ABC; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:22:45 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D47EC5C3B0F; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFwn12xtzz4jx4; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from avg@FreeBSD.org) X-Originating-IP: 195.64.148.76 Received: from [192.168.0.88] (unknown [195.64.148.76]) (Authenticated sender: andriy.gapon@uabsd.com) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 184A540002; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:22:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: stable/13, vm page counts do not add up To: Mark Johnston Cc: freebsd-stable List , FreeBSD Current References: <0606571f-fec0-c7ad-98e8-a0b8554918e2@FreeBSD.org> From: Andriy Gapon Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 23:22:41 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFwn12xtzz4jx4 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 20:22:46 -0000 On 07/04/2021 22:54, Mark Johnston wrote: > On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 10:42:57PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> >> I regularly see that the top's memory line does not add up (and by a lot). >> That can be seen with vm.stats as well. >> >> For example: >> $ sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count >> vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 >> vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 3231 >> vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 262058 >> vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 3054178 >> vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 621131 >> vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 1871176 >> vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 187777 >> vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 8134982 >> >> $ bc >>>>> 187777 + 1871176 + 621131 + 3054178 + 262058 >> 5996320 >>>>> 8134982 - 5996320 >> 2138662 >> >> As you can see, it's not a small number of pages either. >> Approximately 2 million pages, 8 gigabytes or 25% of the whole memory on this >> system. >> >> This is 47c00a9835926e96, 13.0-STABLE amd64. >> I do not think that I saw anything like that when I used (much) older FreeBSD. > > One relevant change is that vm_page_wire() no longer removes pages from > LRU queues, so the count of pages in the queues can include wired pages. > If the page daemon runs, it will dequeue any wired pages that are > encountered. Maybe I misunderstand how that works, but I would expect that the sum of all counters could be greater than v_page_count at times. But in my case it's less. > This was done to reduce queue lock contention, operations like > sendfile() which transiently wire pages would otherwise trigger two > queue operations per page. Now that queue operations are batched this > might not be as important. > > We could perhaps add a new flavour of vm_page_wire() which is not lazy > and would be suited for e.g., the buffer cache. What is the primary > source of wired pages in this case? It should be ZFS, I guess. -- Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed Apr 7 20:56:51 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB24C5C4838 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:56:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFxXM4xqtz4mMh for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:56:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id A688F5C48BB; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:56:51 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A616F5C47D8; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 20:56:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from markjdb@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FFxXM486fz4m1t; 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charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FFxXM486fz4m1t X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 20:56:51 -0000 On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 11:22:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > On 07/04/2021 22:54, Mark Johnston wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 10:42:57PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > >> > >> I regularly see that the top's memory line does not add up (and by a lot). > >> That can be seen with vm.stats as well. > >> > >> For example: > >> $ sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count > >> vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 > >> vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 3231 > >> vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 262058 > >> vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 3054178 > >> vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 621131 > >> vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 1871176 > >> vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 187777 > >> vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 8134982 > >> > >> $ bc > >>>>> 187777 + 1871176 + 621131 + 3054178 + 262058 > >> 5996320 > >>>>> 8134982 - 5996320 > >> 2138662 > >> > >> As you can see, it's not a small number of pages either. > >> Approximately 2 million pages, 8 gigabytes or 25% of the whole memory on this > >> system. > >> > >> This is 47c00a9835926e96, 13.0-STABLE amd64. > >> I do not think that I saw anything like that when I used (much) older FreeBSD. > > > > One relevant change is that vm_page_wire() no longer removes pages from > > LRU queues, so the count of pages in the queues can include wired pages. > > If the page daemon runs, it will dequeue any wired pages that are > > encountered. > > Maybe I misunderstand how that works, but I would expect that the sum of all > counters could be greater than v_page_count at times. But in my case it's less. I misread, sorry. You're right, what I described would cause double counting. I don't know what might be causing it then. It could be a page leak. The kernel allocates wired pages without adjusting the v_wire_count counter in some cases, but the ones I know about happen at boot and should not account for such a large disparity. I do not see it on a few systems that I have access to. > > This was done to reduce queue lock contention, operations like > > sendfile() which transiently wire pages would otherwise trigger two > > queue operations per page. Now that queue operations are batched this > > might not be as important. > > > > We could perhaps add a new flavour of vm_page_wire() which is not lazy > > and would be suited for e.g., the buffer cache. What is the primary > > source of wired pages in this case? > > It should be ZFS, I guess. > > -- > Andriy Gapon From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 03:04:46 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757EC5CC14E for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 03:04:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au [203.41.22.115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2560 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au", Issuer "Heuristic Systems Type 4 Host CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FG5hr4hV6z3jJW for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 03:04:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from [10.0.5.3] (noddy.hs [10.0.5.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 13832siZ027115 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 13:02:55 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=heuristicsystems.com.au; s=hsa; t=1617850975; x=1618455776; bh=Pi5aZmAZM4JQaM+w/og5OSyI5MWI/xvCEt2fpG2OSAs=; h=Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date; b=JRimuirtYiNTLMGbGBX2m97EMon6ru4fnJ0fP8K2URr9N96+YzdNsCdHGqdZ5kb9f 1YKwPv11hcFlFbScXD9SDHMKzA9rE/rnnh8WBA+wa2zjqv0XE+ZHFnX+AImGjvq8Z1 fSiww+9Dl4K4+RLYBGo8v0xX1DfnFyji/7hdK5u7xH4TnnnZ/T1aw X-Authentication-Warning: b3.hs: Host noddy.hs [10.0.5.3] claimed to be [10.0.5.3] Subject: Re: stable/13, vm page counts do not add up To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <0606571f-fec0-c7ad-98e8-a0b8554918e2@FreeBSD.org> From: Dewayne Geraghty Message-ID: <7b47289d-2f6d-0400-b97c-e23bb27e28af@heuristicsystems.com.au> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 13:01:31 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FG5hr4hV6z3jJW X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=heuristicsystems.com.au header.s=hsa header.b=JRimuirt; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au designates 203.41.22.115 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.78 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[203.41.22.115:from]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.58)[-0.580]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1221, ipnet:203.40.0.0/13, country:AU]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[heuristicsystems.com.au:s=hsa]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 03:04:46 -0000 On 8/04/2021 6:56 am, Mark Johnston wrote: > On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 11:22:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> On 07/04/2021 22:54, Mark Johnston wrote: >>> On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 10:42:57PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: >>>> >>>> I regularly see that the top's memory line does not add up (and by a lot). >>>> That can be seen with vm.stats as well. >>>> >>>> For example: >>>> $ sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 3231 >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 262058 >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 3054178 >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 621131 >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 1871176 >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 187777 >>>> vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 8134982 >>>> >>>> $ bc >>>>>>> 187777 + 1871176 + 621131 + 3054178 + 262058 >>>> 5996320 >>>>>>> 8134982 - 5996320 >>>> 2138662 >>>> >>>> As you can see, it's not a small number of pages either. >>>> Approximately 2 million pages, 8 gigabytes or 25% of the whole memory on this >>>> system. >>>> >>>> This is 47c00a9835926e96, 13.0-STABLE amd64. >>>> I do not think that I saw anything like that when I used (much) older FreeBSD. For reference, I think that a smaller error has been around for awhile. On a UFS only system, FreeBSD 12.2-STABLE #0 r369523M: Sat Mar 27 00:27:03 AEDT 2021 I have: # sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count; top -b vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 0 vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 0 vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 423959 vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 82623 vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 256273 vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 5457329 vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 6112118 last pid: 83881; load averages: 0.07, 0.09, 0.06 up 0+07:31:44 12:59:37 90 processes: 1 running, 89 sleeping CPU: 0.0% user, 0.0% nice, 0.0% system, 0.0% interrupt, 99.9% idle Mem: 323M Active, 1656M Inact, 1001M Wired, 585M Buf, 21G Free Swap: 24G Total, 24G Free # bc 423959+82623+256273+5457329 6220184 6112118 - 6220184 -108066 From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 06:27:46 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0414F5D12C7 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 06:27:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout2-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGBC534Ndz4R2q for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 06:27:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A18134B for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap38 ([10.202.2.88]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 08 Apr 2021 02:27:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=G/g2DnYXv0S7qQZFgZIWq03Eg/acb60 x++z0iM2w2II=; b=OXPAVoYjzr4EZ2OLKKzOFPPT43EjbeRvFR/OvVtcwF5p7S5 mgcVW+HwVyRjLng1pvW9pnYOwmp03yG9wNXi5Cgp4aGqrWZ+qJSHFP15a+Dx1jDO P41vF1S2Bhe9BpIaVk0K9Ms0DfY0n12kjTYPEI3j6NXSBb8StKG6GQ8cRF4t88CK y66cGL7tyNtNw8inKEVMCzAN1U2LRQmD4OrIEHEv5mhCieB/tLCo0vkJTsVhfiKy dOcsdt6qHg1yjDH7k1MkhdVqZHQws/2QFubl0X5f+lUvJsozzQYwCEzR+587ysyB Aw4YNtMW3WdxWyp+BGshC0j4j4oGLFR5vEPbgvA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=G/g2Dn YXv0S7qQZFgZIWq03Eg/acb60x++z0iM2w2II=; b=JXcwnS/vZ9W89DJkJQaR8I zoFmHN5xwev+oZxKFLK3Wal6lKFV5KjN9dEaOlKr7cNuSO3sGDhy+GZKO2cDQ5fj c/lwimQdMmT9lEcG83d+yebh3o+9XlaAWlXt6ePzPCEIGszfi95ufV9BqF5iOT/j YnijO3lrhu2gIdlWobGhrCZ3iB6MBJ4f2mZybVBRAOgKbIlRfi3ig1Z7imuwrrRc s+yU9w0DiX3kfZKxxye8iY+ttb9ZVEka/UJH5kAWIxDLamKu58YpYatTEibSnlH0 /LB1hwnkuKNP803G1RkrrbhzcKpHobNbd2nhSvIjZCxSKa1sqLAA0wFbol+rx1zw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudejkedguddtkecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpegrvhgv nhhtrgguohhrsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepveevjeejke elffejffeujefgteevvdfgveethfehkedvleevhfetgeduuedtveevnecuvehluhhsthgv rhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprghvvghnthgrughorhesfh grshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A6BE8CA005E; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:27:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <09981e70-3798-47b6-9789-d59cc0baae34@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 15:27:14 +0900 From: aventador@fastmail.fm To: "Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable" Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGBC534Ndz4R2q X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.fm header.s=fm2 header.b=OXPAVoYj; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=JXcwnS/v; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.fm; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aventador@fastmail.fm designates 64.147.123.25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aventador@fastmail.fm X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.08 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.25:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fastmail.fm,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.25:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[64.147.123.25:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fastmail.fm:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[fastmail.fm:dkim]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[64.147.123.25:from:127.0.2.255]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:54:10 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 06:27:46 -0000 I think folks have different definitions of what an operating system should be. An Operating System (OS) is an interface between a computer user and computer hardware. An operating system is a software which performs all the basic tasks like file management, memory management, process management, handling input and output, and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers. If you add or take away from the above definition, then there is your misunderstanding. Best Regards, Vic Thacker On Wed, Apr 7, 2021, at 21:17, tech-lists wrote: > Hi, I'm a bit late to the discussion > > On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 07:44:59AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: > > >I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > > > >- remove ftp(1) > >- remove ftpd(8) > >- remove telnet(1) > >- remove telnetd(8) > >- remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > >use https://. > >- replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > >traffic? > > Very firmly against this, and this sort of thing, for the following reasons: > > 1. I want an OS, not a kernel. If I just want a kernel, then why not go > with linux? FreeBSD is meant to be, I think, (generally), a server OS. > So, would you agree that it needs the ability to have server protocols > easily configured, with a minimum of fuss, without packages? > > 2. a lot of infrastructure depends on ftpd. it's easy to configure > securely ftpd in base. > > 3. there are some networks, like internal ones, where encryption is not > a requirement, or appropriate. > > 4. there are some places where encryption is in fact illegal. > > >Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely > >on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > >last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > >FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > >passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > >system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we > >have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. > > 5. some services commonly don't use https. Lots of internet radio > stations don't. If https is enforced then the user will have to jump > through more hoops than they already do in order to, in this case, > listen to internet radio. Or face a loss of functionality. > > 6. not everywhere will have constant internet access. Not everyone will > want to use pkgs or have space for the ports tree. > > >I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > >protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. > > I think you should carefully think of the consequences of removing > functionality in the default install. It will make it less useful, not > more. > -- > J. > > Attachments: > * signature.asc From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 13:39:11 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF2F95DCB28 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 13:39:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au [203.41.22.115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2560 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au", Issuer "Heuristic Systems Type 4 Host CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGMms10gBz3GS1 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 13:39:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from [10.0.5.3] (noddy.hs [10.0.5.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 138DbPek073212 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 8 Apr 2021 23:37:25 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=heuristicsystems.com.au; s=hsa; t=1617889046; x=1618493847; bh=Fm/AkgZHBAAFb+EZe4NeEDrdSQuawDkSgBI5OIhXZnY=; h=Subject:To:Cc:From:Message-ID:Date; b=OzGH/huT+CGid4A/P/jWSrXce/+CA41zRlx05DHmX+uNaHEIvfU52yivnu81UaLlX KxACMtmJ0QfyfPfW3DF9fwgW/QAAh9fHnkfg9f++VoBfLJ0Tv7y5fjBABjiV5vj9My ttd7YAgbJ6+OQJHqUYjnS9DkCw1XNXT07f6f9J2x4cUMo5OKnD4LU X-Authentication-Warning: b3.hs: Host noddy.hs [10.0.5.3] claimed to be [10.0.5.3] Subject: Re: stable/13, vm page counts do not add up To: Helge Oldach Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <202104080459.1384xFr4079615@nuc.oldach.net> From: Dewayne Geraghty Message-ID: <5e845e5a-aba6-abbd-f142-599af643a817@heuristicsystems.com.au> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 23:36:02 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202104080459.1384xFr4079615@nuc.oldach.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGMms10gBz3GS1 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=heuristicsystems.com.au header.s=hsa header.b=OzGH/huT; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au designates 203.41.22.115 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dewayne.geraghty@heuristicsystems.com.au X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.20 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[heuristicsystems.com.au:s=hsa]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:dkim]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[203.41.22.115:from]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:+]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1221, ipnet:203.40.0.0/13, country:AU]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:54:29 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:39:11 -0000 On 8/04/2021 2:59 pm, Helge Oldach wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 10:42:57PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I regularly see that the top's memory line does not add up (and by a lot). >>>>>> That can be seen with vm.stats as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example: >>>>>> $ sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 3231 >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 262058 >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 3054178 >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 621131 >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 1871176 >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 187777 >>>>>> vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 8134982 >>>>>> >>>>>> $ bc >>>>>>>>> 187777 + 1871176 + 621131 + 3054178 + 262058 >>>>>> 5996320 >>>>>>>>> 8134982 - 5996320 >>>>>> 2138662 >>>>>> >>>>>> As you can see, it's not a small number of pages either. >>>>>> Approximately 2 million pages, 8 gigabytes or 25% of the whole memory on this >>>>>> system. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is 47c00a9835926e96, 13.0-STABLE amd64. >>>>>> I do not think that I saw anything like that when I used (much) older FreeBSD. > > That sounds like PR 234559 which has an explanation. > > Kind regards > Helge > Thanks Helge, I appreciate the pointer to understand from Mark J. in 2019 that: "Basically, we started lazily dequeuing wired pages to avoid the page queue synchronization cost incurred by frequent wirings. The result is that wired pages may temporarily be counted as active/inactive/laundry despite not being reclaimable. Maintaining the previous behaviour wrt statistics would introduce synchronization overhead that we've been trying to avoid" (#1) A minor and known counting error to avoid sync'ing overhead is fine. Ref #1: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=234559 From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 16:05:21 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F087A5DFB2D for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 16:05:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGR1Y3XVRz3hF2 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 16:05:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 138G5Rsi024512; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 09:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 09:05:27 -0700 From: Chris To: aventador@fastmail.fm Cc: Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? In-Reply-To: <09981e70-3798-47b6-9789-d59cc0baae34@www.fastmail.com> References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> <09981e70-3798-47b6-9789-d59cc0baae34@www.fastmail.com> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGR1Y3XVRz3hF2 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 16:05:22 -0000 On 2021-04-07 23:27, aventador@fastmail.fm wrote: > I think folks have different definitions of what an operating system should > be. Agreed. > > An Operating System (OS) is an interface between a computer user and > computer > hardware. An operating system is a software which performs all the basic > tasks > like file management, memory management, process management, handling input > and > output, and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers. > > If you add or take away from the above definition, then there is your > misunderstanding. IMHO many refer to Linux as an Operating System. When in fact it is a Kernel. Which is also what you describe above. OTOH, UNIX as an OS has a defined set of commands available, as well as servers to facilitate running a fully installed server. Which is what I believe he was referring to. At this point I think this thread is becoming tiresome. ;-) --Chris > > Best Regards, > Vic Thacker > > > On Wed, Apr 7, 2021, at 21:17, tech-lists wrote: >> Hi, I'm a bit late to the discussion >> >> On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 07:44:59AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: >> >> >I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: >> > >> >- remove ftp(1) >> >- remove ftpd(8) >> >- remove telnet(1) >> >- remove telnetd(8) >> >- remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all >> >use https://. >> >- replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS >> >traffic? >> >> Very firmly against this, and this sort of thing, for the following >> reasons: >> >> 1. I want an OS, not a kernel. If I just want a kernel, then why not go >> with linux? FreeBSD is meant to be, I think, (generally), a server OS. >> So, would you agree that it needs the ability to have server protocols >> easily configured, with a minimum of fuss, without packages? >> >> 2. a lot of infrastructure depends on ftpd. it's easy to configure >> securely ftpd in base. >> >> 3. there are some networks, like internal ones, where encryption is not >> a requirement, or appropriate. >> >> 4. there are some places where encryption is in fact illegal. >> >> >Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely >> >on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the >> >last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the >> >FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a >> >passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base >> >system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we >> >have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. >> >> 5. some services commonly don't use https. Lots of internet radio >> stations don't. If https is enforced then the user will have to jump >> through more hoops than they already do in order to, in this case, >> listen to internet radio. Or face a loss of functionality. >> >> 6. not everywhere will have constant internet access. Not everyone will >> want to use pkgs or have space for the ports tree. >> >> >I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted >> >protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. >> >> I think you should carefully think of the consequences of removing >> functionality in the default install. It will make it less useful, not >> more. >> -- >> J. >> >> Attachments: >> * signature.asc > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 17:46:48 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5158E5B9FAB for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FGTGc0xK6z3pyn for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 179A65B9FAA; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:46:48 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 140F15B9E51 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from home.opsec.eu (home.opsec.eu [IPv6:2001:14f8:200::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGTGb4S6Bz3pym for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:46:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from pi by home.opsec.eu with local (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1lUYjk-0004dU-3R for stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 19:46:36 +0200 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 19:46:36 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: 13.0-RC5 crash/reboot on cold-start, how do I get a textdump ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGTGb4S6Bz3pym X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.00 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12502, ipnet:2001:14f8::/32, country:DE] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 17:46:48 -0000 Hi! I have a new laptop (Lenovo P14s), installed freebsd 13.0-RC5 on it with ZFS, geli encryption. If I cold-start the laptop, the first boot will crash before going multi-user and reboot, and the next boot will be fine. I activated /var/log/kern for kern.*, but the crash happens so early that nothing is logged. How can I get a textdump of that crash ? Would boot_ddb="YES" in /boot/loader.conf help ? -- pi@opsec.eu +49 171 3101372 Now what ? From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 20:39:40 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A6715BEC06 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:39:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FGY636QvMz4ZXy for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:39:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id DC88D5BEA46; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:39:39 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAC095BE67F for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:39:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGY635kY9z4ZZr; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 20:39:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id r20so3868633ljk.4; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:39:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DPcoW43KkXZwyx1OA9N9q5i6StbXc1WaDUOxKDM3bp4=; b=o0D/X4ZQGR8RwZo4Wd8/sc8Shlw1/bJpy36Cr4LY29BPoaebUSaYdHHXaFJEgIlz4M D/q9zLOPepZ6QeTxToxNqg75OOlVqNu3VbDcc3Se2OMubxlvKE7MKC0SFtWp+Kmp0fxt Jdy/Z/f+D6RI3qiGHs4opYH8IH+hOQOpMJ8hkGZTp14uvEZOlMFalPaj63wNDw4Pkh0f H4n5cPWW7peEcpQAgzSwTAMFxti9P/05f4VtreKr2mtFZV4GeRwGftkF+M6sJ9tB5xj8 UlJUlUuYeKO7EtNlMCMgQFsH6Czqpd41k8ZOPem2GK4ChIMqfdAvqCZ0nEMidUppv+FM Owxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DPcoW43KkXZwyx1OA9N9q5i6StbXc1WaDUOxKDM3bp4=; b=ATW/VoeocY3yxW1KXq0MPvibwad9xkMGEBDWfoDcZbRcbE19xwNA4OwW4vbDqAlKBN LpVWcYAvq+4VvbofgweY+ZeIo34e7hRyBFXzGKiObXSlM/kwPDkA9f5QS9D4PG+w5IkM JQi9NuHpmDOlA6LuTpmFaC/GGDmcP920CrASCKiQ6DakNU9QXae5qx7mqUqVd5d/d8fQ GjRAwnaqRBLidedu9JJ8R0eaiLS87Hr2EcAD0+l532wXkgGTuES/XlvGFzzDk+/MXGzf cwENExOHT9Sjd0Cbr6aFnbf+WRTl2C/2Waz3P9frhKQ1LARIy6wFo810/ix6FfWuXcOE aDtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531M1KneKzV3xUyi9qncEXRgA/fYCemX3xJsJXkyCNdbi+HGvOr/ x5RrPTHLrjbTlXfGVqijWq9n8nS0ewWfMzVFR46QRzCK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwl5ZVOMiihM2hT0C6nUEYUXZfowDzaE3sU47Vf5QGIyAm0SKwWMrBW2y8jfsjwUF7IygLsKqXjIg+nSP2lpBA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b544:: with SMTP id a4mr7343046ljn.504.1617914377837; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 13:39:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2021 23:39:00 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: 13.0-RC5 crash/reboot on cold-start, how do I get a textdump ? To: Kurt Jaeger Cc: stable@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGY635kY9z4ZZr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 20:39:40 -0000 On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 8:46 PM Kurt Jaeger wrote: > Hi! > > I have a new laptop (Lenovo P14s), installed freebsd 13.0-RC5 on it > with ZFS, geli encryption. > > If I cold-start the laptop, the first boot will crash before > going multi-user and reboot, and the next boot will be fine. > > I activated /var/log/kern for kern.*, but the crash happens > so early that nothing is logged. > > How can I get a textdump of that crash ? > > Would boot_ddb="YES" in /boot/loader.conf help ? > > -- > pi@opsec.eu +49 171 3101372 Now what ? > _______________________________________________ > > My opinion ( but not deterministic knowledge ) is that crash is due to initialization of "microcodes" . If a computer has a different operating system other than FreeBSD , such a crash is occurring during the first boot . I think the reason is that parts that are NOT able to use the newly stored microcodes . In a new boot , the above mentioned parts are becoming able to use the stored microcodes during the first boot . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Apr 9 07:00:32 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9074C5CD56D for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 07:00:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bennett@sdf.org) Received: from mx.sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [205.166.94.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx.sdf.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGptR5k5mz3tBJ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 07:00:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bennett@sdf.org) Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:bennett@rie.sdf.org [205.166.94.4]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 13970Smw017309 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Fri, 9 Apr 2021 07:00:28 GMT Received: (from bennett@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 13971hVu013808; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 02:01:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Bennett Message-Id: <202104090701.13971hVu013808@sdf.org> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 02:01:43 -0500 To: eugen@grosbein.net Subject: Re: Vinum deprecation for FreeBSD 14 - are there any remaining Vinum users? Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, emaste@freebsd.org References: <202104070549.1375nKJm003266@sdf.org> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 6/20/10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGptR5k5mz3tBJ X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.45 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[205.166.94.24:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:205.166.94.0/24:c]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[205.166.94.24:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.65)[-0.646]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[sdf.org,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14361, ipnet:205.166.94.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 07:00:32 -0000 Eugene Grosbein wrote: > 07.04.2021 12:49, Scott Bennett via freebsd-stable wrote: > > > At least w.r.t. gvinum's raid5, I can attest that the kernel panics > > are real. Before settling on ZFS raidz2 for my largest storage pool, I > > experimented with gstripe(8), gmirror(8), graid3(8), and graid5(8) (from > > sysutils/graid5). All worked reasonably well, except for one operation, > > namely, "stop". Most/all such devices cannot actually be stopped because > > a stopped device does not *stay* stopped. As soon as the GEOM device > > node is destroyed, all disks are retasted, their labels, if any, are > > recognized, and their corresponding device nodes are recreated and placed > > back on line. :-( All of this happens too quickly for even a series of > > commands entered on one line to be able to unload the kernel module for > > the device node type in question, so there is no practical way to stop > > such a device once it has been started. > > In fact, you can disable re-tasting with sysctl kern.geom.notaste=1, > stop an GEOM, clear its lables and re-enable tasting setting kern.geom.notaste=0 back. Thank you for this valuable, but undocumented, workaround! However, it serves to demonstrate the bugs in gstripe(8), gmirror(8), graid3(8), and graid5(8), and perhaps a few others, either in the commands themselves, which do not behave as advertised in their respective man pages or in their man pages for not correctly documenting the commands' actual behavior. > > > A special note is needed here regarding gcache(8) and graid3(8). The > > documentation of gcache parameters for sector size for physical devices > > and gcache logical devices is very unclear, such that a user must have the > > device nodes and space on them available to create test cases and do so, > > whereas a properly documented gcache(8) would obviate the need to set up > > such experiments. There is similar lack of clarity in various size > > specifications for blocks, sectors, records, etc. in many of the man pages > > for native GEOM commands. > > I found gcache(8) very nice at first, it really boosts UFS performance provided > you have extra RAM to dedicate to its cache. gcache can be stacked with gmirror etc. > but I found it guilty to some obscure UFS-related panics. It seems there were races or something. > No data loss, though as it is intended to be transparent for writing. There are other, also undocumented, problems. For example, I played with gcache(8) for a short time as a method of dividing a ZFS pool into two extents on a drive in order to place a frequently accessed partition between them. It worked nicely for a while, but the first time that gcache(8) choked it made a real mess of the ZFS pool's copy on that drive. As a result I immediately abandoned that use of gcache(8). gcache(8) usses two poorly defined sysctl values, kern.geom.cache.used_hi and kern.geom.cache.used_lo. Its man page shows them with default values, but neglects to mention whether they are enforced limits or merely sysctl variables that report current or high and low watermark usages. > > I was forced to stop using gcache for sake of stability and it's a shame. > For example, dump(8) speed-up due to gcache was 2x at least with big cache > comparing to dump -C32 without gcache. > I used it to make all accesses to a graid3(8) set of partitions work with 64 KB and 32 KB block sizes for UFS2 efficiency on a graid3(8) device. That use worked very nicely, but it took some experimentation to figure out how to do it because the man page is so ambiguous about the gcache command's options and arguments. A similar complaint could be leveled at the man pages for gstripe(8), graid3(8), and graid5(8) w.r.t. their undocumented definitions of stripe size, sector size, and block size. At present, without reading the command and kernel source code for each or experimenting extensively, it is difficult to understand what the commands' options and arguments will do and which combinations of their numerical values can be valid and accepted. Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ********************************************************************** * Internet: bennett at sdf.org *xor* bennett at freeshell.org * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * "A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army." * * -- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * ********************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Thu Apr 8 22:32:36 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BC35C2A17 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 22:32:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FGbcM4KFvz4p0j for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 22:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aventador@fastmail.fm) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03201658; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 18:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap38 ([10.202.2.88]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 08 Apr 2021 18:32:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=N6h4GpYViClkylA1WxQGxxHcDAW4kMJ QFC4pRVis0Jk=; b=Syrge8vwzsP6U96qG2NFUKwjO61+IcvtqE/o1jOmLwJQivA 3ncNi/S0CVCjmh8wH348olirrJip7BLYeOhIqcOlahjVlC5NNmRqwP1B/MzKg16K y/XZJ4sC9wkcBTS1ERyP3r9A6nnyVENepL82f8DJ0pVpPrsUJWo+i/gwLX4d3NCC RJOhqIgOi4wUUU0qnm1Tl7Ifebgl1mYWjN1+ZGf6pw+CNpMoSXKZrX1B/vMlVvgO xfgjigfdu2rKAf/lkJFc1AINVfI/U43m4nr/FJQQYI7BUtsqMTbU/oP5HWMSDRYO 72XRbR36xCACqszuWyvRs2Ry442ywwossWMf2sw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=N6h4Gp YViClkylA1WxQGxxHcDAW4kMJQFC4pRVis0Jk=; b=sz1s49c8ARYsh/SSZG+86X A1KXw5bGk+Prv5pjvE77QkNmEFcJDcq5AlyJWWB33agvshn+6FOhJTitzyRAgWRd 8hjoi1BGDhixBKPQJ2wl2ZhvoktQ1AzIGkyfHfJd6/NM0l/v/FM3fOC852xHOnzC Zbj1SdyEiZdNdnjhWUDtVl45JOF1gMPEw8KXKDxq8QBIwkkEo4X54qM1LlCLbgkZ aeTZJSYSXBZiCvNC7VSIkLv185EJmJrkFk+lZGKvIYdAim956MhbmioQVt+8ibnW xQogND2jQ4mjUs/pKOfSRiqcSy7GAHQMxafedYIH3ciDDIJDyxfGXI5XIqK6Ud/w == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudektddgtdelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtredtreertdenucfhrhhomheprghvvghn thgrughorhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmhenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeegvdfhvdduud evvdefgeffiedvjeeifedutdehtdffkeeuveeugfefvdetkefhleenucffohhmrghinhep fhhrvggvsghsugdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmh grihhlfhhrohhmpegrvhgvnhhtrgguohhrsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 024EBCA005E; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 18:32:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <848d20b4-5df8-44a5-8769-3d396ae1fa65@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <202104051444.135EixF6025306@slippy.cwsent.com> <09981e70-3798-47b6-9789-d59cc0baae34@www.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 07:32:12 +0900 From: aventador@fastmail.fm To: Chris Cc: "Robert Blayzor via freebsd-stable" Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FGbcM4KFvz4p0j X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.fm header.s=fm2 header.b=Syrge8vw; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=sz1s49c8; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.fm; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aventador@fastmail.fm designates 64.147.123.19 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aventador@fastmail.fm X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.19]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fastmail.fm,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.19:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[64.147.123.19:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fastmail.fm:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[64.147.123.19:from:127.0.2.255]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[fastmail.fm:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 09:22:20 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2021 22:32:36 -0000 It makes me think that there should be an offering for two completely different audiences: (1) FreeBSD core (a very minimal offering for folks that want to build things, like a Desktop, etc.) (2) FreeBSD server (an offering for folks that want a server build) Perhaps that idea is just unreasonably crazy as well. Best Regards, Vic Thacker On Fri, Apr 9, 2021, at 01:05, Chris wrote: > On 2021-04-07 23:27, aventador@fastmail.fm wrote: > > I think folks have different definitions of what an operating system should > > be. > Agreed. > > > > An Operating System (OS) is an interface between a computer user and > > computer > > hardware. An operating system is a software which performs all the basic > > tasks > > like file management, memory management, process management, handling input > > and > > output, and controlling peripheral devices such as disk drives and printers. > > > > If you add or take away from the above definition, then there is your > > misunderstanding. > IMHO many refer to Linux as an Operating System. When in fact it is a Kernel. > Which > is also what you describe above. > OTOH, UNIX as an OS has a defined set of commands available, as well as > servers to > facilitate running a fully installed server. Which is what I believe he was > referring to. > > At this point I think this thread is becoming tiresome. ;-) > > --Chris > > > > Best Regards, > > Vic Thacker > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 7, 2021, at 21:17, tech-lists wrote: > >> Hi, I'm a bit late to the discussion > >> > >> On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 07:44:59AM -0700, Cy Schubert wrote: > >> > >> >I think this is an excellent start. My shopping list includes: > >> > > >> >- remove ftp(1) > >> >- remove ftpd(8) > >> >- remove telnet(1) > >> >- remove telnetd(8) > >> >- remove ftp:// and http:// from libfetch. This is 2021 and we should all > >> >use https://. > >> >- replace DNS lookups with DoH and/or DoT. Why let your ISP see your DNS > >> >traffic? > >> > >> Very firmly against this, and this sort of thing, for the following > >> reasons: > >> > >> 1. I want an OS, not a kernel. If I just want a kernel, then why not go > >> with linux? FreeBSD is meant to be, I think, (generally), a server OS. > >> So, would you agree that it needs the ability to have server protocols > >> easily configured, with a minimum of fuss, without packages? > >> > >> 2. a lot of infrastructure depends on ftpd. it's easy to configure > >> securely ftpd in base. > >> > >> 3. there are some networks, like internal ones, where encryption is not > >> a requirement, or appropriate. > >> > >> 4. there are some places where encryption is in fact illegal. > >> > >> >Personally, I'd suggest we remove the ftpd server *AND* ftp client and rely > >> >on ports. Having worked on UNIX, Internet security, and firewalls over the > >> >last 3/5 of my almost 50 year career, I have lamented the existence of the > >> >FTP protocol back in 1995 and I hate the FTP protocol with greater a > >> >passion today. Let's simply remove all vestiges of FTP from the base > >> >system, including libfetch, sooner than later. We don't need it now that we > >> >have HTTPS and POST; and sftp. > >> > >> 5. some services commonly don't use https. Lots of internet radio > >> stations don't. If https is enforced then the user will have to jump > >> through more hoops than they already do in order to, in this case, > >> listen to internet radio. Or face a loss of functionality. > >> > >> 6. not everywhere will have constant internet access. Not everyone will > >> want to use pkgs or have space for the ports tree. > >> > >> >I think we should make it our goal to remove any and all unencrypted > >> >protocols from FreeBSD by 2025. > >> > >> I think you should carefully think of the consequences of removing > >> functionality in the default install. It will make it less useful, not > >> more. > >> -- > >> J. > >> > >> Attachments: > >> * signature.asc > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sat Apr 10 06:58:23 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD87D5DF803 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 06:58:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bennett@sdf.org) Received: from mx.sdf.org (mx.sdf.org [205.166.94.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx.sdf.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FHQnV696Vz4XYl for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 06:58:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bennett@sdf.org) Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:bennett@rie.sdf.org [205.166.94.4]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 13A6w7kP025334 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Sat, 10 Apr 2021 06:58:07 GMT Received: (from bennett@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 13A6w7hm007350; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Scott Bennett Message-Id: <202104100658.13A6w7hm007350@sdf.org> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:07 -0500 To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd Cc: Chris User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.5 6/20/10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FHQnV696Vz4XYl X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.80 / 15.00]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:205.166.94.0/24]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[205.166.94.24:from]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[205.166.94.24:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[sdf.org,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14361, ipnet:205.166.94.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 06:58:23 -0000 On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 07:32:12 +0900 aventador@fastmail.fm wrote: >It makes me think that there should be an offering for two completely different audiences: >(1) FreeBSD core (a very minimal offering for folks that want to build things, like a Desktop, etc.) >(2) FreeBSD server (an offering for folks that want a server build) > >Perhaps that idea is just unreasonably crazy as well. > LOL! You have what is called a very big ask. I would like something far smaller, namely, a choice of schedulers during/just after installation of a -RELEASE without having to a) download the entire source tree, b) make buildworld, and c) make buildkernel. The kernel developers in their wisdom--ahem--have burdened all new installations with the abysmal performance of the ULE scheduler. The installation images for -STABLE versions are much the same. The 4BSD scheduler has been far from optimal, and the ULE scheduler looked like a nice idea on paper for newer CPUs, but in fact, the ULE scheduler's performance is awful, even when compared with the 4BSD scheduler, which generally gives acceptable, though not optimal, performance. If the owner of a new installation wants to get passably usable performance from his new system, he must first perform the tasks noted above. The second and third tasks will take *a lot* of extra time because they must be done under the ULE scheduler. Then one must install the new kernel, reboot, do the mergemaster or /etc/update steps, install the new world, more mergemaster or /etc/update, and reboot again. Two ways of allowing a choice of scheduler are 1) to provide two GENERIC kernels, e.g., GENERIC.ULE and GENERIC.4BSD, from which one could choose at boot time, and 2) to compile both schedulers into the GENERIC kernel, which could be selected from by a loader tunable at boot time. The current system is yet another discouragement to upgrading to a new -RELEASE via a new installation. Further, this fix to bad performance by default is not documented anywhere. How is a user who is new to FreeBSD to know about it? Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ********************************************************************** * Internet: bennett at sdf.org *xor* bennett at freeshell.org * *--------------------------------------------------------------------* * "A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army." * * -- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * ********************************************************************** From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Fri Apr 9 22:33:25 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63BA45C09D3 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 22:33:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weiss@uni-mainz.de) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FHCZs0lkJz4j8W for ; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 22:33:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weiss@uni-mainz.de) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 1608C5C0C9C; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 22:33:25 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1596F5C0B3B; Fri, 9 Apr 2021 22:33:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weiss@uni-mainz.de) Received: from ironport-1.zdv.net (ironport-1.zdv.net [IPv6:2001:4c80:40:62d::25:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ironport.zdv.net", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FHCZq4RZsz4jVS; 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d="scan'208";a="119449258" Received: from ex1111-ms1g-26.zdv.uni-mainz.de ([IPv6:fd42:4323:8cdd:606:9a03:9bff:fe2b:bcb0]) by ironport-1.zdv.net with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Apr 2021 00:33:15 +0200 Received: from ex1341-ms5h-26.zdv.uni-mainz.de (fd42:4323:8cdd:606:9a03:9bff:fe2b:bbe4) by ex1111-ms1g-26.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE (fd42:4323:8cdd:606:9a03:9bff:fe2b:bcb0) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.5; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 00:33:14 +0200 Received: from ex1341-ms5h-26.zdv.uni-mainz.de ([fe80::9a03:9bff:fe2b:bbe4]) by ex1341-ms5h-26.zdv.Uni-Mainz.DE ([fe80::9a03:9bff:fe2b:bbe4%11]) with mapi id 15.02.0858.002; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 00:33:14 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Wei=DF=2C_Dr=2E_J=FCrgen?= To: 'Mark Johnston' , Andriy Gapon CC: freebsd-stable List , FreeBSD Current Subject: RE: stable/13, vm page counts do not add up Thread-Topic: stable/13, vm page counts do not add up Thread-Index: AQHXK+ZXb6tUCqLU/kmkMO25PgBdQ6qpVl6AgAAH04CAAAmJgIADAg5w Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 22:33:14 +0000 Message-ID: <0ee7dc3d7bc7443b9ae60a833835caed@uni-mainz.de> References: <0606571f-fec0-c7ad-98e8-a0b8554918e2@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.93.177.59] Content-Type: text/plain; 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DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[uni-mainz.de:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(0.77)[subject]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2857, ipnet:2001:4c80::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[stable,current] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 09:15:19 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 22:33:25 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org current@freebsd.org> On Behalf Of Mark Johnston > Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 10:57 PM > To: Andriy Gapon > Cc: freebsd-stable List ; FreeBSD Current > > Subject: Re: stable/13, vm page counts do not add up >=20 > On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 11:22:41PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > On 07/04/2021 22:54, Mark Johnston wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 07, 2021 at 10:42:57PM +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote: > > >> > > >> I regularly see that the top's memory line does not add up (and by a= lot). > > >> That can be seen with vm.stats as well. > > >> > > >> For example: > > >> $ sysctl vm.stats | fgrep count > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_cache_count: 0 > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_user_wire_count: 3231 > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_laundry_count: 262058 > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_inactive_count: 3054178 > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_active_count: 621131 > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_wire_count: 1871176 > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_free_count: 187777 > > >> vm.stats.vm.v_page_count: 8134982 > > >> > > >> $ bc > > >>>>> 187777 + 1871176 + 621131 + 3054178 + 262058 > > >> 5996320 > > >>>>> 8134982 - 5996320 > > >> 2138662 > > >> > > >> As you can see, it's not a small number of pages either. > > >> Approximately 2 million pages, 8 gigabytes or 25% of the whole memor= y > on this > > >> system. > > >> > > >> This is 47c00a9835926e96, 13.0-STABLE amd64. > > >> I do not think that I saw anything like that when I used (much) olde= r > FreeBSD. > > > > > > One relevant change is that vm_page_wire() no longer removes pages > from > > > LRU queues, so the count of pages in the queues can include wired > pages. > > > If the page daemon runs, it will dequeue any wired pages that are > > > encountered. > > > > Maybe I misunderstand how that works, but I would expect that the sum > of all > > counters could be greater than v_page_count at times. But in my case i= t's > less. >=20 > I misread, sorry. You're right, what I described would cause double > counting. >=20 > I don't know what might be causing it then. It could be a page leak. > The kernel allocates wired pages without adjusting the v_wire_count > counter in some cases, but the ones I know about happen at boot and > should not account for such a large disparity. I do not see it on a few > systems that I have access to. >=20 > > > This was done to reduce queue lock contention, operations like > > > sendfile() which transiently wire pages would otherwise trigger two > > > queue operations per page. Now that queue operations are batched thi= s > > > might not be as important. > > > > > > We could perhaps add a new flavour of vm_page_wire() which is not laz= y > > > and would be suited for e.g., the buffer cache. What is the primary > > > source of wired pages in this case? > > > > It should be ZFS, I guess. > > > > -- > > Andriy Gapon > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I see kernel memory disappearing, when enabling ktls: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D253281 Last test done with 13.0-RC1.=20 I'm a bit at a loss how to debug this further. Regards=20 Juergen Weiss Juergen Weiss | weiss@uni-mainz.de | From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sat Apr 10 13:38:20 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0CF5E75D7 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:38:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shoesoft@gmx.net) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FHbfz61Ncz3KZg for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:38:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shoesoft@gmx.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1618061898; bh=oSysNkA1Hq4VYKz5XZ/tjwjXhunhfl5LEoRm62ShOUM=; 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dkim=pass header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=HylmiwEr; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmx.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of shoesoft@gmx.net designates 212.227.15.15 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=shoesoft@gmx.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.05 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmx.net]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:212.227.15.0/25]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmx.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmx.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.953]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[81.217.72.171:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[212.227.15.15:from]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmx.net]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[212.227.15.15:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmx.net:s=badeba3b8450]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[gmx.net:dkim]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[212.227.15.15:from:127.0.2.255]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.15.15:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:38:21 -0000 I've just updated an old machine from 12.2 to 13.0 (ea31abc261ffc01b6ff5671bffb15cf910a07f4b) Attaching the /home EBR partition gave me this puzzling error: # geli attach ada0s5 Enter passphrase: geli: Provider not found: "ada0s5" geli: There was an error with at least one provider. Further investigation showed that there is a symlink from /dev/ada0s5 to ada0s4+00000001 but geom doesn't recognize ada0s5 anymore. Didn't find anything about it in the release notes: https://www.freebsd.org/releases/13.0R/relnotes/ I guess EBR is no longer in wide use, but this is an old installation, as already mentioned. gpart list in 12.2: Geom name: ada0s4 modified: false state: OK fwheads: 16 fwsectors: 63 last: 473451614 first: 0 entries: 7515105 scheme: EBR Providers: 1. Name: ada0s5 Mediasize: 41948895744 (39G) ... 13.0: Geom name: ada0s4 modified: false state: OK fwheads: 16 fwsectors: 63 last: 473451614 first: 0 entries: 7515105 scheme: EBR Providers: 1. Name: ada0s4+00000001 Mediasize: 41948895744 (39G) ... From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sat Apr 10 17:34:09 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11725D302E for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 17:34:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from mailhost.m5p.com (mailhost.m5p.com [74.104.188.4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "m5p.com", Issuer "R3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FHhv46W6gz3nqF for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 17:34:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:15ff::26] (court.m5p.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:15ff:0:0:0:26]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailhost.m5p.com (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 13AHY0Yl023054 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:34:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <202104100658.13A6w7hm007350@sdf.org> From: George Mitchell Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd Message-ID: <2bef0785-16c4-6139-e7be-dd12a3466d35@m5p.com> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:34:00 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <202104100658.13A6w7hm007350@sdf.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iQaadIHOQ75rOO5V8r6xJTiDrBdtCxhe5" X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=10.0 tests=HELO_MISC_IP, HELO_NO_DOMAIN, NICE_REPLY_A autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.5 (2021-03-20) on mattapan.m5p.com X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FHhv46W6gz3nqF X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of george@m5p.com designates 74.104.188.4 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=george@m5p.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.40 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[74.104.188.4:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:701, ipnet:74.104.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[0.999]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/mixed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[m5p.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[74.104.188.4:from:127.0.2.255]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 17:34:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --iQaadIHOQ75rOO5V8r6xJTiDrBdtCxhe5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="cKhfv6xrAG15GVGrE0DHOsNnPBl7RgUBZ"; protected-headers="v1" From: George Mitchell To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Message-ID: <2bef0785-16c4-6139-e7be-dd12a3466d35@m5p.com> Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd References: <202104100658.13A6w7hm007350@sdf.org> In-Reply-To: <202104100658.13A6w7hm007350@sdf.org> --cKhfv6xrAG15GVGrE0DHOsNnPBl7RgUBZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/10/21 2:58 AM, Scott Bennett via freebsd-stable wrote: > [...]I would like > something far smaller, namely, a choice of schedulers during/just > after installation of a -RELEASE without having to a) download the > entire source tree, b) make buildworld, and c) make buildkernel. > [...] +1 many times over! I've been hoping someone would implement the schedulers as linkable kernel modules. Surely such a thing is theoretically possible? Maybe there would have to be a dummy scheduler module capable of only single-CPU single-threaded execution to get the kernel to the point where the user-specified real scheduler could be loaded for further operations. This is based, of course, on my complete lack of knowledge about whether the scheduler interface is even compatible with the linkable kernel module interface, etc., etc. But it sure would be nice. -- George --cKhfv6xrAG15GVGrE0DHOsNnPBl7RgUBZ-- --iQaadIHOQ75rOO5V8r6xJTiDrBdtCxhe5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wsF5BAABCAAjFiEENdM4ZHktsJW5kKZXwRES3m+p4fkFAmBx4YgFAwAAAAAACgkQwRES3m+p4fl5 Wg//YXcZfFFc1v74Jf1NllZ0w8eziMoN4BC6ZSgy07kLjm2pU3GOIdiv4ugv58zqiHbQMzFoaMfk /UgI7zRUHHBCcKy/7hWheWXBEtdHJRXyy/tEtqIiQduXRM6ONaW0nRtiFddhAXBiXig9RVfmfUSG 5mShPzO2MmC8JwC7vx3utbaKJ4ITDW/KyZuPQGLZleiWJsYbJUSlrtJjuchl3RVUSOC1xbghuwDE DKhh2cq7VUiMldr7rozvylgpkcvdJspkcIM04Q27pd1z1pw7bwn638rrndpdChZEQ2V351CPFB2U MEXF1BHFZQ3H5THz39rwxx0jyj4A4NbWYv54iLb1in8hivq7ltCLpM407jusTmZ1f7FUSOyYwaTy F4yeTUpzMJquK+i10YsW//4bMq/XlgsKqoNH1dp7FrDUBYQ9hJ9EBaqNJO31e7MFtkbQJj0VSHIj IfjpRiD0rOCaawGpu/5Z0OgEKD8Uhohg+q8QEZZsdk3MzAn+pC7prixuzyu6c0HKc4jrTBXkZLUU FJ7vk4No5xCGDdgZsA7qYGHvQ+x1NJUPwh3BlYSqaG9uhMgNdaqjrz0AHUr6UwSlQvmEy8FlAYus Z19VEMAmGFTXixmXjWDhcsYCydk7HIfw1pFjYMOsbtHAXY2du6ctokU/X7UREz2xsVJwH41i7Z6x AMo= =dXdX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iQaadIHOQ75rOO5V8r6xJTiDrBdtCxhe5--