From nobody Thu Mar 30 21:41:40 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4PncLr6xdFz42NSb for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2023 21:41:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tommym2006@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x931.google.com (mail-ua1-x931.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::931]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4PncLr5JVfz3xyc for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2023 21:41:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tommym2006@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ua1-x931.google.com with SMTP id ay14so14855949uab.13 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2023 14:41:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680212500; x=1682804500; h=content-language:thread-index:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:to:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8Q2lTfBIORpANNkIjhOuGVw3Zm4in2RLkOO3WFM1DBA=; b=E/EYBa1Z5ld1iGLJzZsXodMDNJsQr6NUGKopiNTlGU0b2PJkmfoA7RvWa+ycB45cPb +keOMetUH9hGEMgaVpWGrutaKWixiMHL7K6fYck0iPIQHYYYCnEiVzujYDZ/SeMCWHKz UHERVrIk/WQ2hkgptcPDV+IfmX94px1e4Ug5JOmEg1WohJPX2eLmsZ/NgM50ulO3vSSP VQPn/8yRA/LNOfp5a55sG/j+17O9YCTPnx34nsyHrzGNg5AAQiI4aXhSELKmydHcUw93 2GXloNbKVscLK5DwdRnzDHN9DT473KoFtSxQSscsXHr0H89svYYzXTw/Nq9/7moKUEJz wYhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680212500; x=1682804500; h=content-language:thread-index:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:message-id:date:subject:in-reply-to:references:to:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8Q2lTfBIORpANNkIjhOuGVw3Zm4in2RLkOO3WFM1DBA=; b=YuwGFfWG+BzeQDGd0KeP7OnnAqN5gg8eY5zrozalbsC5iCPhOn3eWrwJotLJvctOui nQNFZAoMSX5tyd/d845OX1MJC3sBo8KtdJPeGq+rV6/rNT4U4bXL6jtY2W74v2yuWtjP fHEmkcyRkYAsV/Z6Q1tfiKxwQWNGWKcfAcNDAGSFB9G1YgPx/tsG+QwRWasMxIivORsA juhblcaMDMNfi0Li67oNEZwugBFHttUkaPVGX8S3UUKHOICytdTWOfXTxSXnKjdGlzo9 03F+ni5YB19Ego5kIDLcZMyu2n5BqObP2opodU0jNgaz9V18nBsfffyrLJo0o9ltBqyp f2Ug== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9cm2Yjq7HtTSzzSvkmj5rSrM8VleAOen20N3NLiaGIv/DP9C56d XH+68eAJcgMA9mzqSOLeAKyf1hdHN+4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YtsTdyjd5cvEiJEjYmytIPTn82Pkde8EDBKSluGWOJl2jId/qNj0Yr4kkIeSyeQ3YOJyOtnw== X-Received: by 2002:a1f:a0d5:0:b0:43b:ef4d:f6c0 with SMTP id j204-20020a1fa0d5000000b0043bef4df6c0mr4680896vke.0.1680212499852; Thu, 30 Mar 2023 14:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MaestroEBook11 (2603-9001-0000-1eda-e9e6-4baa-17c6-b7ba.inf6.spectrum.com. [2603:9001:0:1eda:e9e6:4baa:17c6:b7ba]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c2-20020a1f1c02000000b00432861ad481sm176502vkc.13.2023.03.30.14.41.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Mar 2023 14:41:39 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "'Hans Petter Selasky'" , "'Chris Brannon'" , References: <878rfgddr7.fsf@the-brannons.com> <171b1481-fe70-0fe7-d5b6-cf3f392d6ec4@selasky.org> <02d701d961c1$e9f68550$bde38ff0$@gmail.com> <3c424634-a751-cff0-1c59-564ec0cf573e@selasky.org> In-Reply-To: <3c424634-a751-cff0-1c59-564ec0cf573e@selasky.org> Subject: RE: introduction and testing console screen reader Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2023 17:41:40 -0400 Message-ID: <029c01d96350$6a2c1e30$3e845a90$@gmail.com> List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH2FJd1fILF+o0oNvgYWkdZO+pR6QFdz6G9AhKxNF4Barduoa6znZrQ Content-Language: en-us X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4PncLr5JVfz3xyc X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Hi, Yasr works with Eflite on both FreeBSD and NetBSD so I will try it on = both platforms. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Hans Petter Selasky =20 Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 1:33 PM To: tommym2006@gmail.com; 'Chris Brannon' ; = freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org Subject: Re: introduction and testing console screen reader On 3/29/23 00:09, tommym2006@gmail.com wrote: > I intend to take away the crutch and use a screen reader designed for = that system soon to go along with NetBSD as well. Do you plan on using a character device, or something like FreeBSD = sysctls for the interface? --HPS From nobody Tue Apr 18 13:33:14 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q14cb1PNTz456sf for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 13:33:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [88.99.82.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q14cY6PDgz49vQ for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 13:33:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hps@selasky.org designates 88.99.82.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hps@selasky.org; dmarc=none Received: from [10.36.2.154] (unknown [46.212.121.255]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7DBFE262D9A for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:33:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 15:33:14 +0200 List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 To: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org Content-Language: en-US From: Hans Petter Selasky Subject: FreeBSD-14 and accessibility Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.57 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.989]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.67)[-0.674]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.61)[-0.609]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.99.0.0/16, country:DE]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q14cY6PDgz49vQ X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Hi, Are the current VT accessibility patches in a state worth committing? I'm thinking of: 1) Updates for kernel https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35754 2) New vtspeakd daemon https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35776 The beep changes I will skip for now. --HPS From nobody Wed Apr 19 02:47:07 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1QDb17Whz44pqW for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 02:47:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauamma@gundo.com) Received: from mail.gundo.com (gibson.gundo.com [75.145.166.65]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1QDZ1ZGQz4cFK for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 02:47:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauamma@gundo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from webmail.gundo.com (variax.gundo.com [75.145.166.70]) by mail.gundo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97C134C0322; Tue, 18 Apr 2023 21:47:07 -0500 (CDT) List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 02:47:07 +0000 From: Pau Amma To: Hans Petter Selasky Cc: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD-14 and accessibility In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.8 Message-ID: <0f9f2f6e6ce9fe3ec67264f934bbf831@gundo.com> X-Sender: pauamma@gundo.com Organization: The Cabal (TINC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q1QDZ1ZGQz4cFK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:75.144.0.0/13, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2023-04-18 13:33, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > Hi, > > Are the current VT accessibility patches in a state worth committing? > > I'm thinking of: > > 1) Updates for kernel > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35754 > > 2) New vtspeakd daemon > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35776 As far as I'm concerned, https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35754#857657 is the only possible pain point. (Were you able to duplicate it?) -- #BlackLivesMatter #TransWomenAreWomen #AccessibilityMatters #StandWithUkrainians English: he/him/his (singular they/them/their/theirs OK) French: il/le/lui (iel/iel and ielle/ielle OK) Tagalog: siya/niya/kaniya (please avoid sila/nila/kanila) From nobody Wed Apr 19 09:02:15 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1ZYX108fz45D07 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 09:02:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q1ZYW63ncz4FXv for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 09:02:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [10.36.2.154] (unknown [46.212.121.255]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B31AC262543; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:02:16 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:02:15 +0200 List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Subject: Re: FreeBSD-14 and accessibility To: Pau Amma Cc: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org References: <0f9f2f6e6ce9fe3ec67264f934bbf831@gundo.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Hans Petter Selasky In-Reply-To: <0f9f2f6e6ce9fe3ec67264f934bbf831@gundo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q1ZYW63ncz4FXv X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 4/19/23 04:47, Pau Amma wrote: > On 2023-04-18 13:33, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Are the current VT accessibility patches in a state worth committing? >> >> I'm thinking of: >> >> 1) Updates for kernel >> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35754 >> >> 2) New vtspeakd daemon >> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35776 > > As far as I'm concerned, https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35754#857657 is > the only possible pain point. (Were you able to duplicate it?) > I'll try to reproduce that and find a solution. --HPS From nobody Wed Apr 19 15:36:25 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1lJN5Ldcz466mS for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:36:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Received: from mail.turbocat.net (turbocat.net [IPv6:2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q1lJM6Wd7z4bfJ for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 15:36:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hps@selasky.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hps@selasky.org designates 2a01:4f8:c17:6c4b::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hps@selasky.org; dmarc=none Received: from [10.36.2.154] (unknown [46.212.121.255]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.turbocat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 082F0262436; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:36:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <77362659-4cb5-a34b-44b3-209b3a4997a1@selasky.org> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:36:25 +0200 List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Subject: Re: FreeBSD-14 and accessibility Content-Language: en-US From: Hans Petter Selasky To: Pau Amma Cc: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org References: <0f9f2f6e6ce9fe3ec67264f934bbf831@gundo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.74 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.987]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.54)[0.541]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mail.turbocat.net]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[selasky.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q1lJM6Wd7z4bfJ X-Spamd-Bar: - X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 4/19/23 11:02, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > On 4/19/23 04:47, Pau Amma wrote: >> On 2023-04-18 13:33, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Are the current VT accessibility patches in a state worth committing? >>> >>> I'm thinking of: >>> >>> 1) Updates for kernel >>> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35754 >>> >>> 2) New vtspeakd daemon >>> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35776 >> >> As far as I'm concerned, https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35754#857657 is >> the only possible pain point. (Were you able to duplicate it?) >> > > I'll try to reproduce that and find a solution. > Hi, It might be more clever to kill the espeak on reading the bell character, than when writing the bell character. Because that depends on the shell. Let me look into it! --HPS From nobody Wed Apr 19 17:32:06 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1nst3ySdz46DxY for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:32:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alfix86@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x1133.google.com (mail-yw1-x1133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q1nss6k6Xz3HSt for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:32:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alfix86@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20221208 header.b=VkF7pSu2; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of alfix86@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1133 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=alfix86@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-yw1-x1133.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-54fbee98814so8791057b3.8 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 10:32:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681925537; x=1684517537; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=z+jtc8nSq1dXuEUgY91pH/QxIjm6dBqGBV0C0eSrqXw=; b=VkF7pSu2CIyq5cFZ0KlLghnfUEoUeQ40unj5KSqM4K7ec6se/mI0XWFdrYhSK5DNJJ 0sAZKfmruBWgK7jDTBQ8sCZ8D1ThpBPCOopttawbxKWlqCfdfKGpVVeemsoSAHHOLX7D sVt5in9W4GI8NcsQZWIAyZKsXfWUoc1JULJ0zqn7B/advSGJYs/n9DbuJryCiTHsUK+h OVcmp6botxFSsmqr8J2aj/PGgzgrUR9VZCOul5L27H2z8DD+urhrxHsnvsAVDoF3CLBR xmfKybWf3an5ZqLEOpjc2cG3kHa4jfI0ui27FJH8VrhcwZU+ZKzop/l6Ft9iNgCV4tAA 3g3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681925537; x=1684517537; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=z+jtc8nSq1dXuEUgY91pH/QxIjm6dBqGBV0C0eSrqXw=; b=an51oNGsxM/vq1FcgApA1A0Czkj68eFbAfliZ975n/vvUWgFBqEfKb1hRVBQoVFA87 tGUATeYfggYO/ujRa68i0akCK2bc5Umm9PN/cIPNg4L+NSzo8cndmW9aelJB+D995Mr/ /WjgVJ1+N5JKTZHSCR7ZkW5/LBg4MKD+8b3C2NF1uXHoRzIoSkFfJRvtCNGxFOTZU3rq 6DhCKbsLogkR98H9YRkWfci6R69IYN002fBgsG19U0QSZqZ9opL+t0fqtKhrctCPUna6 +a78WPUyWjpfByApiFUDzGVUiNcErgV7uJhttuv0FmQh2c5BLmizRIbiEY58rUuhHYvK EBkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eA4Usm3J65VcdSCGIAH0eUuQ6mef5pqNqws0GxJtJbcyWqUrwJ YUEQ7S1eaW1PaIjIcNbNjAovRKAIYa39Oez43cVmfKbeJ9E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZK+wxNVpJzLBrhyduMm71AkQtlkLPvILZRd3jVIUOrt4SlFpNXEolNEzZH0kdDpYZp0WR03u0Ek1dN+j4q2k8= X-Received: by 2002:a81:d30d:0:b0:54b:fd28:c5ff with SMTP id y13-20020a81d30d000000b0054bfd28c5ffmr1933802ywi.3.1681925536997; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Alfonso Sabato Siciliano Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 19:32:06 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Terminal Reader and Text User Interface utilities To: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002be7df05f9b3ce86" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20221208]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::1133:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q1nss6k6Xz3HSt X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000002be7df05f9b3ce86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, I'd be happy to help to improve accessibility. I have some idea, however I would like to understand where to concentrate the effort and the best solution. We have some utilities with a TUI (Text User Interface) to set up the system. For example dialog4ports and portconfig to choose options for building and installing ports [0]. Let's say: # cd /usr/ports/editor/vim # make config | espeak espeak-ng reads: escape characters that are sent to the terminal to color fonts and other graphical stuff, chars used to draw borders and lines (windows, buttons, etc). Another problem seems to be the difficulty of selecting buttons and items in a checklist or radiolist, this is the purpose of 'make config'; the problem is to understand where is the focus or the cursor. I am considering to implement a new utility with a CLI (Command Line Interface) for the same purpose. Let's say, for the vim port the output could be: # make config vim port configuration 1: print options, 2: save and exit, 3: close without saving # 1 Checklist with 2 items. Make Jobs: Enable parallel build. Disabled e: enable, c: continue # c NLS: Native Language Support. Enabled d: disable, c: continue # c End List 1: print options, 2: save and exit, 3: close without saving # 2 (Actually vim has more options, this is just a fake example.) Can this new CLI utility be useful? Suggestions and feedbacks are welcome. Regards, Alfonso [0] https://www.freebsd.org/ports/ --0000000000002be7df05f9b3ce86 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

I'd be happy to help to improve accessi= bility. I have some idea, however
I would like to understand where to co= ncentrate the effort and the best
solution.

We have some utilitie= s with a TUI (Text User Interface) to set up the
system. For example dia= log4ports and portconfig to choose options for
building and installing p= orts [0].

Let's say:
# cd /usr/ports/editor/vim
# make con= fig | espeak

espeak-ng reads: escape characters that are sent to the= terminal to
color fonts and other graphical stuff, chars used to draw b= orders and
lines (windows, buttons, etc). Another problem seems to be th= e
difficulty of selecting buttons and items in a checklist or radiolist,=
this is the purpose of 'make config'; the problem is to underst= and
where is the focus or the cursor.

I am considering to impleme= nt a new utility with a CLI (Command Line
Interface) for the same purpos= e. Let's say, for the vim port the output
could be:

# make co= nfig
vim port configuration
1: print options, 2: save and exit, 3: cl= ose without saving
# 1
Checklist with 2 items.
Make Jobs: Enable p= arallel build. Disabled
e: enable, c: continue
# c
NLS: Native Lan= guage Support. Enabled
d: disable, c: continue
# c
End List
1: = print options, 2: save and exit, 3: close without saving
# 2
(Actuall= y vim has more options, this is just a fake example.)

Can this new C= LI utility be useful? Suggestions and feedbacks are
welcome.

Rega= rds,
Alfonso

[0] https= ://www.freebsd.org/ports/
--0000000000002be7df05f9b3ce86-- From nobody Wed Apr 19 21:30:39 2023 X-Original-To: accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1v8y1YQfz45Fjd for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:30:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauamma@gundo.com) Received: from mail.gundo.com (gibson.gundo.com [75.145.166.65]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1v8x3tMpz3pTm for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:30:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauamma@gundo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pauamma@gundo.com designates 75.145.166.65 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pauamma@gundo.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gundo.com Received: from webmail.gundo.com (variax.gundo.com [75.145.166.70]) by mail.gundo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16054C24B8 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 16:30:39 -0500 (CDT) List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:30:39 +0000 From: Pau Amma To: accessibility@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terminal Reader and Text User Interface utilities In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.8 Message-ID: X-Sender: pauamma@gundo.com Organization: The Cabal (TINC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.06 / 15.00]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.979]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.95)[0.951]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gundo.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[75.145.166.65:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:75.145.166.64/28]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.13)[0.126]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[75.145.166.65:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[accessibility@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:75.144.0.0/13, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pauamma]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[accessibility@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q1v8x3tMpz3pTm X-Spamd-Bar: + X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2023-04-19 17:32, Alfonso Sabato Siciliano wrote: > I'd be happy to help to improve accessibility. I have some idea, > however > I would like to understand where to concentrate the effort and the best > solution. Just popping up to say I'll happily be a sounding board and help explain or formalize requirements if needed, but I'm not going to take a more active role in that discussion since I'm not a screenreader user myself. -- #BlackLivesMatter #TransWomenAreWomen #AccessibilityMatters #StandWithUkrainians English: he/him/his (singular they/them/their/theirs OK) French: il/le/lui (iel/iel and ielle/ielle OK) Tagalog: siya/niya/kaniya (please avoid sila/nila/kanila) From nobody Wed Apr 19 21:50:43 2023 X-Original-To: accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1vcJ2hRgz45Gm7 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:50:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alfix86@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q1vcH6NBpz3DBV for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:50:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alfix86@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com with SMTP id n17so933669ybq.2 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681941054; x=1684533054; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=0Ezbr6DJn/nGgAQdTlZiOxT0936wyxCPP6GX5pni2YA=; b=Obatib8rRaUOvS0r1hwLW4NYZ7g4gptiFvn9f1eYezj/8k0DhQqIlhZUnwBQplSHrW EVaaD6R2vb9qoH99oxCF8qnDxDCBr0yHCC8cp8tba2Gu1VSf2kp96Se3xAOXRpYm8i89 kHUYOm91MuljlL8DgBdOorQH9AF24/1G4ZQIblzkgrjbgVRmY5kWKVEfconrCeBh+VoD jomtjXwl4U6xgwlOVBLmj3dDCIzcerMn0UGBNp942VMyBhM5OkBIXoB0j2aRfu0/Z3nw 07tTJT0JHLm5N28nR3CH981f3jwtoGOFiKa6bz6zbdxN7Xv1ipJNTs88EpwTOTogKu7U 3hsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681941054; x=1684533054; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=0Ezbr6DJn/nGgAQdTlZiOxT0936wyxCPP6GX5pni2YA=; b=k04vttT2FxeSsz0HnPPAjjdiZB4/kodrHs3dWbXhEMqFzs0y5WDHLvSCuHnuZK7f5G 9vkxM48/odGtzN8Jg0wJNGtHapmZ1FM1ffKfUargmysopR77Dn74tTJcPohhZrrD2PY8 6ox5imRfupWaRlvW7FXXS4PG390NMMoNGioJ/1l6sVWHe86iHYGOEI4A/3NGOUTB0to8 OAZjg4gWWoP1YLQQAshTFVFtmHDpkAtk0OQORDe0/Wsc3K1xM9IMpwSoxCUMkdfpCvmj sV4PE/CN2ShVSqH2y7WDJV+gKnAUFZfE24UkINOmXKQ6lingZMK0cY3OMy88QiqpIgCv K5Sg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fDzTsbmbeZs7zDa/pcmKxnGxh30CGigjJvx/6WH0bqeRamke3Y Tques2fW4dtEUmEHZXPa7u1kNQw1Wgax116ktNZbHzAr3lI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YCjvuQXXICi2JB+pNGe4KJ5DhDWEaZyf3ETyMhd19FwfuthY63ZmQHDSplc7Qnu5gjsEjg+I8wcNT/YpMumdg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d890:0:b0:b94:6989:7fa6 with SMTP id p138-20020a25d890000000b00b9469897fa6mr708738ybg.4.1681941054444; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:50:54 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alfonso Sabato Siciliano Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 23:50:43 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Terminal Reader and Text User Interface utilities To: Pau Amma Cc: accessibility@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000155f1d05f9b76b9a" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q1vcH6NBpz3DBV X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --000000000000155f1d05f9b76b9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 at 23:30, Pau Amma wrote: > Just popping up to say I'll happily be a sounding board and help explain > or formalize requirements if needed, but I'm not going to take a more > active role in that discussion since I'm not a screenreader user myself. > I'm not a screenreader user myself, too. So I asked for suggestions. However to understand the problem is sufficient to run a simple: $ dialog --infobox "test" 0 0 | espeak or $ bsddialog --infobox "test" 0 0 | espeak Our installer (bsdinstall) is built on TUI dialogs, so to find a solution for a simple TUI utilityfor the PORTS options can be the first step to provide an accessible (speech) installer. Regards, Alfonso --000000000000155f1d05f9b76b9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 at 23:30, Pau Amm= a <pauamma@gundo.com> wrote:=
Just popping up to say I'll happily be a sounding board and help explai= n
or formalize requirements if needed, but I'm not going to take a more <= br> active role in that discussion since I'm not a screenreader user myself= .

I'm not a screenreader user myse= lf, too. So I asked for suggestions.
However to understand the pr= oblem is sufficient to run a simple:
$ dialog --infobox "= ;test" 0 0 | espeak
or
$ bsddialog --infobox "= ;test" 0 0 | espeak

Our installer (bsdinstall= ) is built on TUI dialogs, so to find a solution for a simple
TUI= utilityfor the PORTS options can be the first step to provide an accessibl= e
(speech) installer.

Regards,
=
Alfonso

=C2=A0
--000000000000155f1d05f9b76b9a-- From nobody Wed Apr 19 22:42:44 2023 X-Original-To: accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1wm65v9Sz45LH7 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 22:42:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauamma@gundo.com) Received: from mail.gundo.com (gibson.gundo.com [75.145.166.65]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q1wm55lyQz3s3n for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 22:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pauamma@gundo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pauamma@gundo.com designates 75.145.166.65 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pauamma@gundo.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gundo.com Received: from webmail.gundo.com (variax.gundo.com [75.145.166.70]) by mail.gundo.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EBFB4C24B8 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 17:42:44 -0500 (CDT) List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 22:42:44 +0000 From: Pau Amma To: accessibility@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Terminal Reader and Text User Interface utilities In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.8 Message-ID: X-Sender: pauamma@gundo.com Organization: The Cabal (TINC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.18 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.954]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.76)[-0.765]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.54)[0.542]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gundo.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:75.145.166.64/28:c]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[75.145.166.65:from]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[75.145.166.65:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:75.144.0.0/13, country:US]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[accessibility@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pauamma]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[accessibility@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q1wm55lyQz3s3n X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 2023-04-19 21:50, Alfonso Sabato Siciliano wrote: > On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 at 23:30, Pau Amma wrote: > >> Just popping up to say I'll happily be a sounding board and help >> explain >> or formalize requirements if needed, but I'm not going to take a more >> active role in that discussion since I'm not a screenreader user >> myself. > > I'm not a screenreader user myself, too. So I asked for suggestions. > However to understand the problem is sufficient to run a simple: > $ dialog --infobox "test" 0 0 | espeak > or > $ bsddialog --infobox "test" 0 0 | espeak Oh, I understand the problem. (Or at least, I think I do.) What I know I *don't* understand is usability or UX flaws in proposed solutions that would be obvious to a screenreader user. Hence, I need to take a backseat unless and until it looks like I'm needed for something. > Our installer (bsdinstall) is built on TUI dialogs, so to find a > solution > for a simple > TUI utilityfor the PORTS options can be the first step to provide an > accessible > (speech) installer. I got that, yes. -- #BlackLivesMatter #TransWomenAreWomen #AccessibilityMatters #StandWithUkrainians English: he/him/his (singular they/them/their/theirs OK) French: il/le/lui (iel/iel and ielle/ielle OK) Tagalog: siya/niya/kaniya (please avoid sila/nila/kanila) From nobody Fri Apr 21 06:22:03 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-accessibility@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Q2kvk53TLz45y71 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2023 06:22:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@jpmrc.com) Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Q2kvj2T4Yz3kjn for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2023 06:22:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@jpmrc.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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Fri, 21 Apr 2023 02:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_30CF1453-F239-4F7D-93DA-8769E1FEBE21" List-Id: FreeBSD accessibility discussions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-accessibility List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.2\)) Subject: Re: Terminal Reader and Text User Interface utilities From: Jon McLaughlin In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 00:22:03 -0600 Cc: freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org Message-Id: References: To: Jon McLaughlin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.2) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.88 / 15.00]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[5]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.992]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.991]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[jpmrc.com:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.24:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-accessibility@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jpmrc.com: no valid DMARC record]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[jon]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[jpmrc.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29838, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[64.147.123.24:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q2kvj2T4Yz3kjn X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --Apple-Mail=_30CF1453-F239-4F7D-93DA-8769E1FEBE21 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 re-sending this response to the list since it went to Alfonso directly = on my first try but was meant as a general response. Hello, You might be thinking of two different scenarios. 1. A user is connected to the FreeBsd Machine via a terminal session. In = this case, you can assume they have a working screen reader already. The = standard type of config menus that FreeBSD uses(Blue boxes on some sort = of other background) Are rather hard for screen readers since the reader = has no clue what is important to read so it will read every character = that is a printing character on those dialogs(aka =E2=80=9CHorizontal = box drawing right=E2=80=9D for every character) In which case, an ultra = simple dialog system like you propose would be a good idea. You = wouldn=E2=80=99t even need whitespace in it since blind people do not = care if it is pretty. 2. A user connected at a terminal session In this case, I=E2=80=99d suggest looking at either BrlTTY since it has = built in speech or Fenrir for python. those two are already screen = readers and could use help.. a lot of it. Also, if you could brow-beat = someone into making BrlTTY not stutter on a Raspberry Pi 4, that would = be amazing. I hear the problem is something to do with there being 2 = running audio systems at the same time but I have never been able to = replicate the results from the tutorials I found. Once that can run = without annoyance, then look into the TUI being more accessible..=20 Also, you don=E2=80=99t need to be visually impaired to know how this = stuff works, just turn your monitor off or put a piece of cardboard over = the screen if you are on a laptop.. bonus, tape it down so you can=E2=80=99= t cheat s easily. Then try to edit a text file. Vim and Emacs are both = equally bad on the command line. Nano is passable but I prefer ed = because it doesn=E2=80=99t make the screen reader guess about what is = important. Good luck, let me know if you are talking about scenario 1 above because = I can test that easily. If it is the latter then I might be convinced to = reinstall FreeBSD on a spare machine. Best, Jon > On Apr 19, 2023, at 11:32 AM, Alfonso Sabato Siciliano = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I'd be happy to help to improve accessibility. I have some idea, = however > I would like to understand where to concentrate the effort and the = best > solution. >=20 > We have some utilities with a TUI (Text User Interface) to set up the > system. For example dialog4ports and portconfig to choose options for > building and installing ports [0]. >=20 > Let's say: > # cd /usr/ports/editor/vim > # make config | espeak >=20 > espeak-ng reads: escape characters that are sent to the terminal to > color fonts and other graphical stuff, chars used to draw borders and > lines (windows, buttons, etc). Another problem seems to be the > difficulty of selecting buttons and items in a checklist or radiolist, > this is the purpose of 'make config'; the problem is to understand > where is the focus or the cursor. >=20 > I am considering to implement a new utility with a CLI (Command Line > Interface) for the same purpose. Let's say, for the vim port the = output > could be: >=20 > # make config > vim port configuration > 1: print options, 2: save and exit, 3: close without saving > # 1 > Checklist with 2 items. > Make Jobs: Enable parallel build. Disabled > e: enable, c: continue > # c > NLS: Native Language Support. Enabled > d: disable, c: continue > # c > End List > 1: print options, 2: save and exit, 3: close without saving > # 2 > (Actually vim has more options, this is just a fake example.) >=20 > Can this new CLI utility be useful? Suggestions and feedbacks are > welcome. >=20 > Regards, > Alfonso >=20 > [0] https://www.freebsd.org/ports/ --Apple-Mail=_30CF1453-F239-4F7D-93DA-8769E1FEBE21 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
re-sending this response to the list since it went to = Alfonso directly on my first try but was meant as a general = response.

Hello,
You might be thinking of two different = scenarios.

1. A user is connected to = the FreeBsd Machine via a terminal session. In this case, you can assume = they have a working screen reader already. The standard type of config = menus that FreeBSD uses(Blue boxes on some sort of other background) Are = rather hard for screen readers since the reader has  no clue what = is important to read so it will read every character that is a printing = character on those dialogs(aka =E2=80=9CHorizontal box drawing right=E2=80= =9D for every character) In which case, an ultra simple dialog system = like you propose would be a good idea. You wouldn=E2=80=99t even need = whitespace in it since blind people do not care if it is = pretty.

2. A user connected at a = terminal session
In this case, I=E2=80=99d suggest looking at = either BrlTTY since it has built in speech or Fenrir for python. those = two are already screen readers and could use help.. a lot of it. Also, = if you could brow-beat someone into making BrlTTY not stutter on a = Raspberry Pi 4, that would be amazing. I hear the problem is something = to do with there being 2 running audio systems at the same time but I = have never been able to replicate the results from the tutorials I = found. Once that can run without annoyance, then look into the TUI being = more accessible.. 


Also, you don=E2=80=99t need to be visually impaired = to know how this stuff works, just turn your monitor off or put a piece = of cardboard over the screen if you are on a laptop.. bonus, tape it = down so you can=E2=80=99t cheat s easily. Then try to edit a text file. = Vim and Emacs are both equally bad on the command line. Nano is passable = but I prefer ed because it doesn=E2=80=99t make the screen reader guess = about what is important.

Good = luck, let me know if you are talking about scenario 1 above because I = can test that easily. If it is the latter then I might be convinced to = reinstall FreeBSD  on a spare machine.

Best,
Jon




On Apr 19, 2023, at 11:32 AM, Alfonso Sabato Siciliano <alfix86@gmail.com> = wrote:

Hi all,

I'd be happy = to help to improve accessibility. I have some idea, however
I would like to understand where to concentrate the effort = and the best
solution.

We = have some utilities with a TUI (Text User Interface) to set up the
system. For example dialog4ports and portconfig to choose = options for
building and installing ports [0].

Let's say:
# cd = /usr/ports/editor/vim
# make config | espeak

espeak-ng reads: escape characters that are = sent to the terminal to
color fonts and other graphical = stuff, chars used to draw borders and
lines (windows, = buttons, etc). Another problem seems to be the
difficulty = of selecting buttons and items in a checklist or radiolist,
this is the purpose of 'make config'; the problem is to = understand
where is the focus or the cursor.

I am considering to implement a new utility = with a CLI (Command Line
Interface) for the same purpose. = Let's say, for the vim port the output
could be:

# make config
vim port = configuration
1: print options, 2: save and exit, 3: close = without saving
# 1
Checklist with 2 = items.
Make Jobs: Enable parallel build. Disabled
e: enable, c: continue
# c
NLS: = Native Language Support. Enabled
d: disable, c: = continue
# c
End List
1: print = options, 2: save and exit, 3: close without saving
# 2
(Actually vim has more options, this is just a fake = example.)

Can this new CLI utility be = useful? Suggestions and feedbacks are
welcome.

Regards,
Alfonso
[0] https://www.freebsd.org/ports/

= --Apple-Mail=_30CF1453-F239-4F7D-93DA-8769E1FEBE21--