From nobody Sat Feb 11 09:18:52 2023 X-Original-To: embedded@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4PDQ6C4tN8z3phmY; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 09:19:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Received: from smtp052.goneo.de (smtp052.goneo.de [85.220.129.60]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4PDQ6B1kbnz4DYl; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 09:19:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=walstatt-de.de header.s=DKIM001 header.b=h9uLolTG; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@walstatt-de.de has no SPF policy when checking 85.220.129.60) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@walstatt-de.de; dmarc=none Received: from hub2.goneo.de (hub2.goneo.de [85.220.129.53]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp5.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D70010A1E88; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 10:19:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from hub2.goneo.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub2.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E37CF10A32F3; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 10:19:20 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=walstatt-de.de; s=DKIM001; t=1676107160; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ILj+jI4K2MOTJQa8S3VP3b9e9ZuZkSF/aD3hNAP2ang=; b=h9uLolTG2eEGZ0g1u8ql6MkBFB05Anb3omPJ4vTLdEcEdPemT49yxU0SC4OjdLrzTYeOhf /EzXaRZ5iGyEMShm+CZs7/+PYuNWrqT/g5cC1wxGw7R2RKPqAMe6z07/VsXZImdQ09ha1O OQnufUT2dwaXLHzWu5CBVZR/GpyKkLU/ldp9iSb8Jal3SuH++5syxKRcqbh8PzrO5qqaog ztaL1KsHJNYqFiLVepYVnMTrDDk8lr60KiJEodZUcypJgrc8UiopXC1XmCSINeOrjWVV8S wCf0MpoXGmgeUw7/nANtsX1R2yvOgh7ruPoy9IsPoSnGEP3+mpT4pXRXrPtsZQ== Received: from thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de (dynamic-089-012-247-176.89.12.pool.telefonica.de [89.12.247.176]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by hub2.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AAD1A10A32F2; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 10:19:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 10:18:52 +0100 From: FreeBSD User To: "freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org" , FreeBSD CURRENT Subject: STABLE/13: src/sys/dev/an/if_an_pci.c:143:1: error: a function definition without a prototype Message-ID: <20230211101919.05c63e2c@thor.intern.walstatt.dynvpn.de> Organization: walstatt-de.de List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-embedded List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-UID: 30ebb9 X-Rspamd-UID: bf3f2e X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.28 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.976]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[walstatt-de.de:s=DKIM001]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[embedded@freebsd.org,freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[walstatt-de.de:+]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25394, ipnet:85.220.128.0/17, country:DE]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[walstatt-de.de]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4PDQ6B1kbnz4DYl X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Hello, compiling most recent FreeBSD 13-STABLE (as of today) with a custom kernel with disabled 'an' driver in the wireless section (nodevice an), compiling kernel now fails with the error: src/sys/dev/an/if_an_pci.c:143:1: error: a function definition without a prototype is deprecated in all versions of C and is not supported in C2x [-Werror,-Wdeprecated-non-prototype] How can this be fixed? Kind regards, oh -- O. Hartmann From nobody Thu Jul 13 15:33:08 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4R1zCJ2j5Hz2tr3w for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:33:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:1::12]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smarthost1.sentex.ca", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4R1zCH1k6bz3PKF for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:33:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mike@sentex.net designates 2607:f3e0:0:1::12 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mike@sentex.net; dmarc=none Received: from pyroxene2a.sentex.ca (pyroxene19.sentex.ca [199.212.134.19]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.17.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 36DFX8XS074194 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:33:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [IPV6:2607:f3e0:0:4::29] ([IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:4:0:0:0:29]) by pyroxene2a.sentex.ca (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 36DFX8bS061163 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:33:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-ID: <709521ba-5719-5f80-10bf-1de05d99d5c1@sentex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:33:08 -0400 List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-embedded List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-embedded From: mike tancsa Subject: SD card corruption Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.37 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.978]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f3e0::/32]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[199.212.134.19:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11647, ipnet:2607:f3e0::/32, country:CA]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[mike]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sentex.net]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4R1zCH1k6bz3PKF X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N TL;DR. We get batches of cards that suddenly fail with SD card wide file corruption out of the blue. A little background.  We have APUs (PCEngines) in the field that work REALLY well for reliability.  However, the odd time that things go south, its due to SD cards.  I had a couple of devices last week fail after about a year and when I got them back both had hundreds of fsck errors. These are devices that stay mounted Read Only so there are no writes to them. Even on the second partition of the nanobsd image which was never mounted had many fsck errors.  Normally we use SanDisk but had to switch to some PNY due to supply chain issues.  The PNY seem to be more failure prone than the SanDisk, but we do get the odd SanDisk too with the same pathology. Once I get the bad SD card back, I can newfs it and all is fine. e.g. I can fill the disk with 16GB of /dev/urandom files and the hashes all match over time. Is it just bad hardware / bad luck that is causing these seemingly catastrophic failures or are there things that should be done in the field to extend the life of SD cards ? Is there any way to predict these failures in advance ? If I newfs -E (does the -E make a difference?) the unused partition and then re-write it with the live image and then boot to the new partition, does that buy my any longevity ?     ---Mike From nobody Thu Jul 13 19:02:20 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4R23rg6PzLz4mb45 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 19:02:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from mx0.gid.co.uk (mx0.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.250]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4R23rg2Kwfz4MBd for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 19:02:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple (moriarty.gid.co.uk [194.32.164.17]) by mx0.gid.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id 36DJ2K27022521; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:02:20 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-embedded List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.3\)) Subject: Re: SD card corruption From: Bob Bishop In-Reply-To: <709521ba-5719-5f80-10bf-1de05d99d5c1@sentex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:02:20 +0100 Cc: freebsd-embedded Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <709521ba-5719-5f80-10bf-1de05d99d5c1@sentex.net> To: mike tancsa X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4R23rg2Kwfz4MBd X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42831, ipnet:194.32.164.0/24, country:GB] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N Hi, > On 13 Jul 2023, at 16:33, mike tancsa wrote: >=20 > TL;DR. We get batches of cards that suddenly fail with SD card wide = file corruption out of the blue. >=20 >=20 > A little background. We have APUs (PCEngines) in the field that work = REALLY well for reliability. However, the odd time that things go = south, its due to SD cards. I had a couple of devices last week fail = after about a year and when I got them back both had hundreds of fsck = errors. These are devices that stay mounted Read Only so there are no = writes to them. Even on the second partition of the nanobsd image which = was never mounted had many fsck errors. Normally we use SanDisk but had = to switch to some PNY due to supply chain issues. The PNY seem to be = more failure prone than the SanDisk, but we do get the odd SanDisk too = with the same pathology. >=20 > Once I get the bad SD card back, I can newfs it and all is fine. e.g. = I can fill the disk with 16GB of /dev/urandom files and the hashes all = match over time. >=20 > Is it just bad hardware / bad luck that is causing these seemingly = catastrophic failures or are there things that should be done in the = field to extend the life of SD cards ? What=E2=80=99s the environment like? SD cards really don=E2=80=99t like = being run hot for instance. Are there radios or other electrical noise = nearby? > Is there any way to predict these failures in advance ? >=20 > If I newfs -E (does the -E make a difference?) the unused partition = and then re-write it with the live image and then boot to the new = partition, does that buy my any longevity ? >=20 > ---Mike >=20 >=20 -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk From nobody Thu Jul 13 19:12:54 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4R244n165Mz4mflb for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 19:12:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from smarthost1.sentex.ca (smarthost1.sentex.ca [IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:1::12]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smarthost1.sentex.ca", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4R244m6c0vz4PQQ for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 19:12:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from pyroxene2a.sentex.ca (pyroxene19.sentex.ca [199.212.134.19]) by smarthost1.sentex.ca (8.17.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 36DJCsJ5065245 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:12:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Received: from [IPV6:2607:f3e0:0:4::29] ([IPv6:2607:f3e0:0:4:0:0:0:29]) by pyroxene2a.sentex.ca (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 36DJCs9a050620 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:12:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from mike@sentex.net) Message-ID: <028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:12:54 -0400 List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-embedded List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Subject: Re: SD card corruption Content-Language: en-US To: Bob Bishop Cc: freebsd-embedded References: <709521ba-5719-5f80-10bf-1de05d99d5c1@sentex.net> From: mike tancsa In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4R244m6c0vz4PQQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11647, ipnet:2607:f3e0::/32, country:CA] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 7/13/2023 3:02 PM, Bob Bishop wrote: > > What’s the environment like? SD cards really don’t like being run hot for instance. Are there radios or other electrical noise nearby? Its a messy retail environment, but not too hot. The design of the APUs have excellent passive cooling and I monitor the CPU temp at a few hundred sites and have a good baseline. There is very little variation and failures dont seem to correlate with the few hot outliers. CPU is usually around 50C. (https://www.pcengines.ch/apucool.htm). The recent fail site the weekly avg was 49.9C with almost no variation / spikes Could exposure to a burst of intense em scramble the SD card ?  I would think other devices would be impacted if that were the case. Whats odd is that I am testing one of the returned cards right now. I wiped it, filled it with 15GB of a few random files and am continuously checksuming the files and they are fine. I would think that if the SD card failed, it would continue to fail. Hence, I am just trying to better understand what causes this. The SD card hardware layer is all "black box" to me     ---Mike From nobody Thu Jul 13 19:24:39 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-embedded@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4R24LW6H33z4mlqG for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 19:24:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [104.236.120.189]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4R24LT41Lfz3C81 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 19:24:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of karl@denninger.net designates 104.236.120.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=karl@denninger.net; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=denninger.net Received: from denninger.net (096-033-195-197.res.spectrum.com [96.33.195.197]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C1D211089 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.10.25] (D15.Denninger.Net [192.168.10.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 06D0A3AAC53 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:24:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <811be6b2-e94a-5143-cd37-f5af4ed7fcda@denninger.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:24:39 -0400 List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-embedded List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Subject: Re: SD card corruption Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org References: <709521ba-5719-5f80-10bf-1de05d99d5c1@sentex.net> <028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net> From: Karl Denninger In-Reply-To: <028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms010406030800050500060209" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.83 / 15.00]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.992]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.988]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.950]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[denninger.net,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:104.236.64.0/18, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~,4:~]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[karl]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4R24LT41Lfz3C81 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010406030800050500060209 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------swXlFisRyHaczHYiAv9YHTkE" --------------swXlFisRyHaczHYiAv9YHTkE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/13/2023 15:12, mike tancsa wrote: > On 7/13/2023 3:02 PM, Bob Bishop wrote: >> >> What’s the environment like? SD cards really don’t like being run hot >> for instance. Are there radios or other electrical noise nearby? > > Its a messy retail environment, but not too hot. The design of the > APUs have excellent passive cooling and I monitor the CPU temp at a > few hundred sites and have a good baseline. There is very little > variation and failures dont seem to correlate with the few hot > outliers. CPU is usually around 50C. > (https://www.pcengines.ch/apucool.htm). The recent fail site the > weekly avg was 49.9C with almost no variation / spikes > > Could exposure to a burst of intense em scramble the SD card ?  I > would think other devices would be impacted if that were the case. > Whats odd is that I am testing one of the returned cards right now. I > wiped it, filled it with 15GB of a few random files and am > continuously checksuming the files and they are fine. I would think > that if the SD card failed, it would continue to fail. Hence, I am > just trying to better understand what causes this. The SD card > hardware layer is all "black box" to me > I have a decent number of these (and this type of config, on pcEngines machines, in the field) and have yet to see this specific sort of failure.   Typically when I see SDs fail they go write-locked AND corrupted -- and are unrecoverable. This sounds like a bug in the on-SD-card firmware that is scrambling the allocation table.  That's nasty and its also likely out of your control.  The only thing I can come up with that might contribute to it would be unstable power. -- Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------swXlFisRyHaczHYiAv9YHTkE Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 7/13/2023 15:12, mike tancsa wrote:
On 7/13/2023 3:02 PM, Bob Bishop wrote:

What’s the environment like? SD cards really don’t like being run hot for instance. Are there radios or other electrical noise nearby?

Its a messy retail environment, but not too hot. The design of the APUs have excellent passive cooling and I monitor the CPU temp at a few hundred sites and have a good baseline. There is very little variation and failures dont seem to correlate with the few hot outliers. CPU is usually around 50C. (https://www.pcengines.ch/apucool.htm). The recent fail site the weekly avg was 49.9C with almost no variation / spikes

Could exposure to a burst of intense em scramble the SD card ?  I would think other devices would be impacted if that were the case. Whats odd is that I am testing one of the returned cards right now. I wiped it, filled it with 15GB of a few random files and am continuously checksuming the files and they are fine. I would think that if the SD card failed, it would continue to fail. Hence, I am just trying to better understand what causes this. The SD card hardware layer is all "black box" to me

I have a decent number of these (and this type of config, on pcEngines machines, in the field) and have yet to see this specific sort of failure.   Typically when I see SDs fail they go write-locked AND corrupted -- and are unrecoverable.

This sounds like a bug in the on-SD-card firmware that is scrambling the allocation table.  That's nasty and its also likely out of your control.  The only thing I can come up with that might contribute to it would be unstable power.

--
Karl Denninger
karl@denninger.net
The Market Ticker
[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]
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(envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Dedicated and Embedded Systems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-embedded List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-embedded@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.3\)) Subject: Re: SD card corruption From: rb@gid.co.uk In-Reply-To: <028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 20:36:44 +0100 Cc: freebsd-embedded Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7245D836-D6EA-46B7-8B52-403F04F81A3C@gid.co.uk> References: <709521ba-5719-5f80-10bf-1de05d99d5c1@sentex.net> <028a3f80-4d90-3368-6f51-ab8f77c56154@sentex.net> To: mike tancsa X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4R24cF3vRKz3FRJ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42831, ipnet:194.32.164.0/24, country:GB] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > On 13 Jul 2023, at 20:12, mike tancsa wrote: >=20 > Could exposure to a burst of intense em scramble the SD card ? Maybe if it destabilised the power supply, I'll admit that=E2=80=99s a = stretch. -- Bob Bishop rb@gid.co.uk