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FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.1 To: freebsd-hackers Content-Language: en-US From: Graham Perrin Subject: demandoc(1) Organization: FreeBSD Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------RlJeTkBhGcxpRPHTwLqgz0fa" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------RlJeTkBhGcxpRPHTwLqgz0fa Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3GmuISvQG1dAqXGl0YRheG9L"; protected-headers="v1" From: Graham Perrin To: freebsd-hackers Message-ID: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> Subject: demandoc(1) --------------3GmuISvQG1dAqXGl0YRheG9L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0dHBzOi8vbWFuZG9jLmJzZC5sdi9tYW4vZGVtYW5kb2MuMS5odG1sPg0KDQpBZGRlZCBp biAyMDE0LCByZW1vdmVkIGluIDIwMTU6DQoNCjxodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vZnJlZWJz ZC9mcmVlYnNkLXNyYy9jb21taXQvMjQyMWI5MGY0Nzc1MGNiNjM0ZWZlZjcwM2M1Zjg4YjNk MzBiMmVlMT4NCjxodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vZnJlZWJzZC9mcmVlYnNkLXNyYy9jb21t aXQvN2IwODk2ZDg4MjhjNGJhZDllZDExOTBkYTVmNjIwNGEzNDkyMzFmMz4NCg0KSSBhZGRl ZCB3aGF0IHdhcyByZW1vdmVkLCBidXQgaXQgZGlkbid0IGJ1aWxkLg0KDQpIb3cgZGlmZmlj dWx0IHdvdWxkIGl0IGJlIHRvIGhhdmUgZGVtYW5kb2MgaW4gYmFzZSwgYWdhaW4/DQoNCkZv ciBub3c6IEkgaW5zdGFsbGVkIGZyb20gc291cmNlLCBpZ25vcmluZyBhIGNvbmZsaWN0IHdp dGggDQovdXNyL2xvY2FsL2Jpbi9zb2VsaW0sIHRoZW4gcmVpbnN0YWxsZWQgZ3JvZmYuDQoN Cg== --------------3GmuISvQG1dAqXGl0YRheG9L-- --------------RlJeTkBhGcxpRPHTwLqgz0fa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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[107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l12-20020a17090aec0c00b002677739860fsm3717835pjy.34.2023.08.05.22.13.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Aug 2023 22:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.600.7\)) Subject: Re: demandoc(1) From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2023 22:13:47 -0700 Cc: freebsd-hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <79117D20-0A32-4548-9250-27CCF6650403@iitbombay.org> References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> To: Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.600.7) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4RJSKh578fz4X3k X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Aug 5, 2023, at 6:34 PM, Graham Perrin = wrote: >=20 > >=20 > Added in 2014, removed in 2015: >=20 > = > = >=20 > I added what was removed, but it didn't build. >=20 > How difficult would it be to have demandoc in base, again? Isn't deroff good enough? 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Sun, 6 Aug 2023 06:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------zwQrspEXgbAcWJpqtf5y047W" Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:12:04 +0200 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: demandoc(1) Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> From: Yuri In-Reply-To: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4RJZxk1qJ8z3d2M X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=multimap; Matched map: local_wl_from X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.71 / 15.00]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT_BOGUS(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[aetern.org:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.19]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.10)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; local_wl_from(0.00)[yuri@aetern.org]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[yuri]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[aetern.org:+,messagingengine.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29838, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------zwQrspEXgbAcWJpqtf5y047W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Graham Perrin wrote: > > > Added in 2014, removed in 2015: > > > > > I added what was removed, but it didn't build. usr.bin/mandoc now builds everything in instead of having a separate library, so usr.bin/demandoc has to do that as well, sample usr.bin/demandoc/Makefile attached. > How difficult would it be to have demandoc in base, again? > > For now: I installed from source, ignoring a conflict with > /usr/local/bin/soelim, then reinstalled groff. --------------zwQrspEXgbAcWJpqtf5y047W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="Makefile" Content-Disposition: attachment; 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mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [192.168.1.10] (80-42-66-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [80.42.66.93]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: grahamperrin) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4RJcks5GLyz8q7 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 11:32:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <238083d9-c937-930c-9f15-7f8708c4205a@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:32:51 +0100 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.1 Subject: deroff(1) and deroff (1b) with mdoc(7) (was: demandoc(1)) To: freebsd-hackers References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> <79117D20-0A32-4548-9250-27CCF6650403@iitbombay.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Graham Perrin Organization: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <79117D20-0A32-4548-9250-27CCF6650403@iitbombay.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From : > … Most existing FreeBSD manual pages, and all new ones, use the > mdoc(7) form … On 06/08/2023 06:13, Bakul Shah wrote: > … > > Isn't deroff good enough? Interesting, thanks. deroff(1) /usr/local/heirloom/usr/5bin/deroff is potentially more useful than deroff(1b) /usr/local/heirloom/usr/ucb/deroff however deroff(1) removes a little too much; . deroff(1) in Plan 9 from User Space has: - a manual page that differs from deroff(1) and deroff(1b) in the Heirloom Toolchest - the same glitch (below). % cat /usr/src/share/man/man8/rc.8 | grep Operation\ of .Ss Operation of Nm .Ss Operation of Nm rc.shutdown % /usr/local/plan9/bin/deroff /usr/src/share/man/man8/rc.8 | grep Operation Operation Operation   rc.shutdown % From nobody Sun Aug 6 12:36:20 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4RJf863sfpz4q037 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:36:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RJf863L6tz4QJy for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:36:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1691325382; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=SUM5tgle6dSJVZVb46fn3MI2GkiCrg2CfAHCeg9H1OY=; b=yZq/m64i2jyfTnDJQmG5x4atWJR4aDE6kvCKe1sUr8cCNoEEYGyg+DsvHWFV0askHrAhUx h5sMeAoIi3ybJQFvrU79X1z0F/XQZZ98ehHtWktVAf1HVxSkYmm7qKp60m9TC9vJ9hGPF0 V+EnoBtpsHVHEBGaOrBKZROaQrO7aDKFQblzMgvs4533/bY69/aBg6sw6D92BjEGekWphB t8Terg8/DsT2l+G/sC4qNhxvqKmJr02RvTG1zvh50KCHqlZR7EHLVqnAeGJQ11fBCTTXV0 Zhf7sXFWis5Z0T6KfuesTg1Bu27wFMT7CKpeob8uvii3j1WdYcYhBN/x20bTXQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1691325382; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=SUM5tgle6dSJVZVb46fn3MI2GkiCrg2CfAHCeg9H1OY=; b=bGM+fKRMiHBpz2wAiuo7KQ7UeNH/z5ITCmDJ1H4C1InLwGfOnl5bNUjNTQAbpuLKsq1EJ8 VY3luJX28Uc93ofvIKKVgcBWjOleNyt4vc9nKh5nprfZcBIqxPZJaEBMf7Bj4p8fOXfQeo zO/Mv6TzUEPWlO1wJ81kieZtWcHvYck0o2A4XEx+8i2CM//+xEiR8eN0zf6E2+5b7MkRAu PYWyF7lwV3OGZ98+H0aobk642PBLi8eZVeDbUrh6P4/ozuo6HsfqncIFbym3kk+QiJsWPQ 3d4egjGSb1ix30s+Gw9V/PzIWHlpOkP7eHOzbuKsoFIuLku4l1rV1P8xyBQXvg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1691325382; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ufpDY5jOe1HZ7v9YTbZIN1MSog/V9Wy+tjD/0xlDX0EDOHHmDkrCIgKg2cqxlWrEda/1Uu WSkkwz4eJWOh3u6e3FsZIWV6v0j1nKD09W6asf4RNAMGkkM7zVR4r59OmOATxQ+/O8eg6h dGwKPc4HzOz2qLr6SfKQisi2n3f0sR7Z//fMi0yWgCNoZOHA027oCYtXmqxcBmKbuvtpCg aWFFuSF1MmKXycS6Lvur+MFqVizTrjpbAUtDlfXdnHaaTlJcQsmEYQv2loVTKny35/Mjde KuAcJIPrrWsm6VNhpaAx3OzzbetHwHtQ6BEp+V+hhLH7HUBOLq15QlqMBRyS0g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [192.168.1.10] (80-42-66-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [80.42.66.93]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: grahamperrin) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4RJf860Twdz9g0 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:36:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <9911e4cf-3498-4221-6ba4-e7cea34f7606@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2023 13:36:20 +0100 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.1 Subject: Re: demandoc(1) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> From: Graham Perrin Organization: FreeBSD Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 06/08/2023 11:12, Yuri wrote: > … sample usr.bin/demandoc/Makefile attached. Success, thanks: % man -P less 1 demandoc % which demandoc /usr/bin/demandoc % file /usr/bin/demandoc /usr/bin/demandoc: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked, interpreter /libexec/ld-elf.so.1, for FreeBSD 14.0 (1400093), FreeBSD-style, stripped % demandoc -w /usr/src/share/man/man9/intro.9 | spell -b | less % demandoc -w /usr/src/share/man/man9/intro.9 | aspell list --encoding utf-8 | sort | uniq | less % Re: – where the '--mode=nroff' part of the aspell(1) example will have little or no effect in most cases – it will be preferable to have aspell present everyday language, without markup. For as long as there'll be no aspell filter mode for mdoc, demandoc might be the best workaround. I can, for example: demandoc /usr/src/share/man/man9/intro.9 | xclip – and then use the context menu of the system tray icon for my local LanguageTool server. The result, pictured: . I spent a few hours searching, can't find a way to make combined use of demandoc with the check command of aspell; for aspell to be interactive with a markup-free, human-friendly view of an mdoc page (not a word list). If anyone has a solution in mind, I'll raise the question in Stack Exchange. From nobody Sun Aug 6 15:27:46 2023 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4RJjy82cBSz4Ttl7 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 15:28:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com (mail-pf1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RJjy75Nl2z3LQJ for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 15:27:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6873a30d02eso2431452b3a.3 for ; Sun, 06 Aug 2023 08:27:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay-org.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1691335678; x=1691940478; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=tlE/zy0zrbtJFVJaawo7xKVVCLdnvTtImB/9UVJSF/A=; b=FRZyCjvNui4MwHpcy6iRlh6wQWarf6WFab2S/wBH0HV4ztR1JDIGcMXRluYbfPdmYO 2xjHL1cne8cTsyFjjSC2Ne6y/aO8I7uPBsvu9QEUye2wsBccJFwgIYQYkGPcyAVXeuGB hzVnTlvq4PA6uhMdDJcj3R2m+lE4rsIM97UzPXO2dw62ycK6weCcR4PeTjC4Gs+kCBxz sWGUbN+dYhzOsyd7bjyQWFza5SLf1U/dwFX/2UsCBXMAyQ+ibpQhM1M/cDZ+LKzCoRkm KrXHsQh6ZE92azVF5sKId6JgZestsFwM+7FKTA/6ZFMxogd1ie8TRCBlvSWniHbFx0UQ Jqkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691335678; x=1691940478; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tlE/zy0zrbtJFVJaawo7xKVVCLdnvTtImB/9UVJSF/A=; b=fHsdbE6t2E4v2mAOXpw7JSHGBjr57faRU3x+q3mUQHhVVO7iSYf/JIHff9uQqxvPH4 uy7sTokf+H5Re1eOtb+3ZYgy8O20HaGTR6GlwZl/Txc5Rilmse/APRqBx/QxV9JNt5pO nf2wqlwxKEbL30KhTdKaSpb5UJ3v9vqPsqXI1LW7ejC8j6Lj1FliebcI8xxl1LJpz4F8 zuCtI1bhowh0P+31YEM635wGS8HMZYF2kk4mj4ep/ELWcj63sd9IrVPP2hy0tuDhxZDk dnZeqdKUktyHPmbqFPJY5LrfDnYceymIGX22mNTDOqL8r0FvZYUPARfp/LCWD2UOwK07 Kk+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzGtOVkGZ+7+YPn0yHd3NOWAuf5xKOHlWQ+6J2X+2rjo1QD5m4m n/69VJYwNa8nzNihWbpKU7Frs7wJwpOQgWk8vnU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG6wkPzkPzY/USFaBNgj1yEkxF7hXGRuDoQUdKcfmIfidx/a1R/8A7+Yr0rnme94x/sno0w7g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2305:b0:686:2b60:3348 with SMTP id h5-20020a056a00230500b006862b603348mr6899572pfh.21.1691335677849; Sun, 06 Aug 2023 08:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (107-215-223-229.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t7-20020aa79387000000b00687087d3647sm4679985pfe.142.2023.08.06.08.27.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 06 Aug 2023 08:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.600.7\)) Subject: Re: deroff(1) and deroff (1b) with mdoc(7) (was: demandoc(1)) From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: <238083d9-c937-930c-9f15-7f8708c4205a@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2023 08:27:46 -0700 Cc: freebsd-hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> <79117D20-0A32-4548-9250-27CCF6650403@iitbombay.org> <238083d9-c937-930c-9f15-7f8708c4205a@freebsd.org> To: Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.600.7) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4RJjy75Nl2z3LQJ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] On Aug 6, 2023, at 4:32 AM, Graham Perrin = wrote: >=20 > deroff(1) /usr/local/heirloom/usr/5bin/deroff is potentially more = useful than > deroff(1b) /usr/local/heirloom/usr/ucb/deroff however > deroff(1) removes a little too much; = . Heirloom deroff was derived from plan9 deroff. >=20 > >=20 > deroff(1) in Plan 9 from User Space has: >=20 > - a manual page that differs from deroff(1) and deroff(1b) in the = Heirloom Toolchest >=20 > - the same glitch (below). >=20 >=20 > % cat /usr/src/share/man/man8/rc.8 | grep Operation\ of > .Ss Operation of Nm > .Ss Operation of Nm rc.shutdown > % /usr/local/plan9/bin/deroff /usr/src/share/man/man8/rc.8 | grep = Operation > Operation > Operation rc.shutdown > % Why not try to fix deroff to also support mdoc just as it supports mm = and ms macros? I hope you are not talking about adding demandoc to the base! Incidentally FreeBSD man fails at properly formatting deroff.1 man page. It produces -mm Remove titles, attachments, etc., as well as ordinary = troff constructs, from or mm documents. nroff -man produces this: -mm Remove titles, attachments, etc., as well as ordinary = troff con=E2=80=90 structs, from ms(7) or mm(7) documents. 9 man -mm Remove titles, attachments, etc., as well as ordinary troff constructs, from ms(7) or mm documents.=20 =09 mandoc man page says: By default, the input language is automatically detected for each file: if = the first macro is Dd or Dt, the mdoc(7) parser is used; = otherwise, the man(7) parser is used. With other arguments, -m is = silently ignored. So either it is using the wrong parser or the parser is doing the wrong = thing!= From nobody Sun Aug 6 15:46:17 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4RJkMH4fj9z4TvtW for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 15:46:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4RJkMH3xtqz3N8L for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 15:46:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1691336779; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; 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FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.1 Subject: aspell(1) markup visibility and filtering (was: demandoc(1)) From: Graham Perrin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> <9911e4cf-3498-4221-6ba4-e7cea34f7606@freebsd.org> Content-Language: en-US Organization: FreeBSD X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) In-Reply-To: <9911e4cf-3498-4221-6ba4-e7cea34f7606@freebsd.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------G6gycJKiAyY90IuW4ajWPtnX" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------G6gycJKiAyY90IuW4ajWPtnX Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0RucdQ450CufjlAeMo7oXKbM"; protected-headers="v1" From: Graham Perrin To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: Subject: aspell(1) markup visibility and filtering (was: demandoc(1)) References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> <9911e4cf-3498-4221-6ba4-e7cea34f7606@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <9911e4cf-3498-4221-6ba4-e7cea34f7606@freebsd.org> --------------0RucdQ450CufjlAeMo7oXKbM Content-Type: text/plain; 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mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [192.168.1.10] (80-42-66-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [80.42.66.93]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: grahamperrin) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4RJkdz5NnKzl1s for ; Sun, 6 Aug 2023 15:59:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grahamperrin@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <8b8e9624-080d-50b3-40c1-35d9a6716ed4@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2023 16:59:01 +0100 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.1 Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-hackers References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> <79117D20-0A32-4548-9250-27CCF6650403@iitbombay.org> <238083d9-c937-930c-9f15-7f8708c4205a@freebsd.org> From: Graham Perrin Subject: Re: deroff(1) and deroff (1b) with mdoc(7) (was: demandoc(1)) Organization: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------K4Yl7SB0id0beQPCF82VeK4B" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------K4Yl7SB0id0beQPCF82VeK4B Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------TMMFTfPHQejxlsvr0XTBE1EV"; protected-headers="v1" From: Graham Perrin To: freebsd-hackers Message-ID: <8b8e9624-080d-50b3-40c1-35d9a6716ed4@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: deroff(1) and deroff (1b) with mdoc(7) (was: demandoc(1)) References: <0345d177-0da2-e41b-6a49-b3fe06e52be0@freebsd.org> <79117D20-0A32-4548-9250-27CCF6650403@iitbombay.org> <238083d9-c937-930c-9f15-7f8708c4205a@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: --------------TMMFTfPHQejxlsvr0XTBE1EV Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------txYRpAZKr4sfz7JublsUFqXx" --------------txYRpAZKr4sfz7JublsUFqXx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gMDYvMDgvMjAyMyAxNjoyNywgQmFrdWwgU2hhaCB3cm90ZToNCj4+IOKApg0KPiBXaHkg bm90IHRyeSB0byBmaXggZGVyb2ZmIHRvIGFsc28gc3VwcG9ydCBtZG9jIGp1c3QgYXMgaXQg c3VwcG9ydHMgbW0gYW5kIG1zDQo+IG1hY3Jvcz8NCg0KDQpJIHdvdWxkbid0IGtub3cgd2hl cmUgdG8gc3RhcnQgKGFuZCBJJ20gbm90IGluY2xpbmVkOyBJJ20gbm90IGEgZGV2ZWxvcGVy KS4NCg0KDQo+IEkgaG9wZSB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCB0YWxraW5nIGFib3V0IGFkZGluZyBkZW1h bmRvYyB0byB0aGUgYmFzZSENCg0KSSdtIGluY2x1ZGluZyBpdCBmb3IgbXlzZWxmLCA8aHR0 cHM6Ly9yZXZpZXdzLmZyZWVic2Qub3JnL1A2MDEkMjAtMjE+Lg0KDQpXaHkgd2FzIGl0IHJl bW92ZWQ/IFRoZSBjb21taXQgd2FzIHRlcnNlIChubyByZWZlcmVuY2UgdG8gYSBidWcgcmVw b3J0LCANCnJldmlldyBvciBkaXNjdXNzaW9uKToNCg0KN2IwODk2ZDg4MjhjIFJlbW92ZSBk ZW1hbmRvYygxKSBmcm9tIHRoZSBidWlsZA0KDQo= --------------txYRpAZKr4sfz7JublsUFqXx Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 06/08/2023 16:27, Bakul Shah wrote:= 

      
=E2=80=A6

      
Why not try to fix deroff to also support mdoc just as it supports mm and=
 ms
macros? 

    

    


    

    
I wouldn't know where to start (and I'm not inclined; I'm not a
      developer). 

    

    


    

    

      
I hope you are not talking a=
bout adding demandoc to the base!

    

    

    
I'm including it for myself,
      <https://reviews.freebsd.org/P601$20-21>. 

    

    
Why was it removed? The commit was terse (no reference to a bug
      report, review or discussion): 

    

    
7b0896d8828c Remove demandoc(1) from the build

    

  
  


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 13:40:49 +0100
From: void 
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
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Hello hackers@

Can sftp be made multi-threaded? Would rsync-over-ssh accomplish the same thing?

The issue I'm having is with large backups taking ages to transfer
even with both source and destination being on gigabit fibre.

It looks like sftp is single-threaded and the bandwidth per thread is
something like 5-50 Mbps and it's nowhere near saturating the bandwidth. 
Would multi-threaded sftp (if it were possible)
or rsync-over-ssh work multi-threaded on a single huge backup file?

In my example, the ssh systems are both OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023

ty
-- 

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Subject: Re: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
From: Juraj Lutter 
In-Reply-To: 
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 14:49:48 +0200
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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To: void 
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> On 9 Aug 2023, at 14:40, void  wrote:
>=20
> Hello hackers@
>=20
> Can sftp be made multi-threaded? Would rsync-over-ssh accomplish the =
same thing?
>=20
> The issue I'm having is with large backups taking ages to transfer
> even with both source and destination being on gigabit fibre.
>=20
> It looks like sftp is single-threaded and the bandwidth per thread is
> something like 5-50 Mbps and it's nowhere near saturating the =
bandwidth. Would multi-threaded sftp (if it were possible)
> or rsync-over-ssh work multi-threaded on a single huge backup file?

Have you played with misc/mbuffer from ports? It might do what you are =
looking for (provided that sftp alone isn=E2=80=99t sufficient).


=E2=80=94
Juraj Lutter
otis@FreeBSD.org


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From: void 
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
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On Wed, Aug 09, 2023 at 02:49:48PM +0200, Juraj Lutter wrote:

>Have you played with misc/mbuffer from ports? It might do what you are 
>looking for (provided that sftp alone isn’t sufficient).

I've used mbuffer in a remote zfs snapshot context before but
I thought that was to account the bursty nature of sending zfs backups
because reading from the disks was bursty. This isn't the case here,
as disks are all m.2 nvme connected to pci4 risers.

The problem I'm seeing I can see through a tool like
speedtest-go and running the test in single-thread mode. If 10 threads
are used, I can saturate the connection. If 1 thread is used, the connection
speed reported is a small fraction of the actual. I'm hypothesising that
throughput-per-thread might be limited either by the ISPs and/or by
for example sysctls on the two freebsd systems.

I know there's something like third-party patches like HPN(?) that *might*
do what I want but for a start I'm not sure they will work with openssh v3.

I'm interested how others accomplish secure backup over long distances
at near-line-speeds. If they need to recompile base openssh to accomplish it,
if they're using v3 and any sysctls or other settings in ssh_/sshd_config
-- 

From nobody Fri Aug 11 11:21:33 2023
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void  wrote:

> Hello hackers@
>
> Can sftp be made multi-threaded? Would rsync-over-ssh accomplish the same thing?
>
> The issue I'm having is with large backups taking ages to transfer
> even with both source and destination being on gigabit fibre.
>
> It looks like sftp is single-threaded and the bandwidth per thread is
> something like 5-50 Mbps and it's nowhere near saturating the bandwidth. 
> Would multi-threaded sftp (if it were possible)
> or rsync-over-ssh work multi-threaded on a single huge backup file?
>
> In my example, the ssh systems are both OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023

rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.

Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the network
can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it's running.
So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.

As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data, 2 GB in
size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:

The final result was:

 100% 2000MB  43.5MB/s   00:46  (Note, that's MegaBYTES/s)

That is WITHOUT HPN. I have compiled ssh both sides with HPN, but in this case,
at least, enabling it makes no difference.

The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be decomissioned.
It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core 2.4Ghz amd64 box.

The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2 and openssl 1.1.1

Anything more I can tell you that may help?

Cheers, Jamie


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Subject: Re: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
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On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:

>rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.

I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions 
on both ends of the connection.

Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other
end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.
What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency
in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.

>Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the network
>can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it's running.
>So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.

Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end

>As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data, 2 GB in
>size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:
>
>The final result was:
>
> 100% 2000MB  43.5MB/s   00:46  (Note, that's MegaBYTES/s)

I ran a similar test.
Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,
receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the sending
direction):

100% 2000MB   7.2MB/s   04:36

using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%    6.81MB/s    0:04:53 (xfr#1, to-chk=0/1)

the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS sense
for the duration of the test.

>The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be decomissioned.
>It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core 2.4Ghz amd64 box.
>
>The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2 and openssl 1.1.1

both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is 
OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023

>Anything more I can tell you that may help?

Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd problem.

-- 

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In-Reply-To: 
From: Joe Schaefer 
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 12:25:17 -0400
Message-ID: 
Subject: Re: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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Why don=E2=80=99t you just use xargs -P until you=E2=80=99ve exhausted your=
 CPU capacity?

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:10 AM void  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:
>
> >rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.
>
> I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions
> on both ends of the connection.
>
> Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other
> end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.
> What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency
> in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.
>
> >Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the
> network
> >can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it's
> running.
> >So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.
>
> Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
> end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end
>
> >As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data, =
2
> GB in
> >size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:
> >
> >The final result was:
> >
> > 100% 2000MB  43.5MB/s   00:46  (Note, that's MegaBYTES/s)
>
> I ran a similar test.
> Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,
> receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the sendi=
ng
> direction):
>
> 100% 2000MB   7.2MB/s   04:36
>
> using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%    6.81MB/s    0:04:53 (xfr#1,
> to-chk=3D0/1)
>
> the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS
> sense
> for the duration of the test.
>
> >The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be
> decomissioned.
> >It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core 2.4Gh=
z
> amd64 box.
> >
> >The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2
> and openssl 1.1.1
>
> both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is
> OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023
>
> >Anything more I can tell you that may help?
>
> Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd problem.
>
> --
>
>

--00000000000026ea2f0602a829c9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Why don=E2=80=99t you just use xargs -P until you=E2=80=
=99ve exhausted your CPU capacity?

On Fri, Aug =
11, 2023 at 10:10 AM void <void@f-m.fm> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 a=
t 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:



>rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.


I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions=
 

on both ends of the connection.



Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other

end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.

What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency

in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.



>Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the=
 network

>can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it'=
;s running.

>So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.



Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end



>As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data,=
 2 GB in

>size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:

>

>The final result was:

>

> 100% 2000MB=C2=A0 43.5MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A000:46=C2=A0 (Note, that's M=
egaBYTES/s)



I ran a similar test.

Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,

receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the sending=


direction):



100% 2000MB=C2=A0 =C2=A07.2MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A004:36



using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 6.81MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0:=
04:53 (xfr#1, to-chk=3D0/1)



the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS sen=
se

for the duration of the test.



>The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be dec=
omissioned.

>It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core 2.4G=
hz amd64 box.

>

>The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2 =
and openssl 1.1.1



both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is 

OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023



>Anything more I can tell you that may help?



Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd pro=
blem.



-- 






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From: Joe Schaefer 
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 12:27:04 -0400
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If it=E2=80=99s just a single file, split it into chunks.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:25 PM Joe Schaefer  wrote:

> Why don=E2=80=99t you just use xargs -P until you=E2=80=99ve exhausted yo=
ur CPU capacity?
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:10 AM void  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:
>>
>> >rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.
>>
>> I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions
>> on both ends of the connection.
>>
>> Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other
>> end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.
>> What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency
>> in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.
>>
>> >Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the
>> network
>> >can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it's
>> running.
>> >So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.
>>
>> Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
>> end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end
>>
>> >As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data,
>> 2 GB in
>> >size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:
>> >
>> >The final result was:
>> >
>> > 100% 2000MB  43.5MB/s   00:46  (Note, that's MegaBYTES/s)
>>
>> I ran a similar test.
>> Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,
>> receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the
>> sending
>> direction):
>>
>> 100% 2000MB   7.2MB/s   04:36
>>
>> using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%    6.81MB/s    0:04:53 (xfr#1,
>> to-chk=3D0/1)
>>
>> the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS
>> sense
>> for the duration of the test.
>>
>> >The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be
>> decomissioned.
>> >It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core
>> 2.4Ghz amd64 box.
>> >
>> >The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2
>> and openssl 1.1.1
>>
>> both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is
>> OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023
>>
>> >Anything more I can tell you that may help?
>>
>> Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd problem.
>>
>> --
>>
>>

--0000000000008197170602a82f15
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


If it=E2=80=99s just a single file, split it into chunks.=


On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:25 PM Joe Schaefer <joesuf4@gmail.com> wrote:
Why don=E2=80=99t you just use xargs -P un=
til you=E2=80=99ve exhausted your CPU capacity?

=

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:10 AM void <void@f-m.fm> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote=
:



>rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.


I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions=
 

on both ends of the connection.



Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other

end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.

What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency

in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.



>Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the=
 network

>can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it'=
;s running.

>So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.



Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end



>As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data,=
 2 GB in

>size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:

>

>The final result was:

>

> 100% 2000MB=C2=A0 43.5MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A000:46=C2=A0 (Note, that's M=
egaBYTES/s)



I ran a similar test.

Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,

receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the sending=


direction):



100% 2000MB=C2=A0 =C2=A07.2MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A004:36



using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 6.81MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0:=
04:53 (xfr#1, to-chk=3D0/1)



the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS sen=
se

for the duration of the test.



>The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be dec=
omissioned.

>It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core 2.4G=
hz amd64 box.

>

>The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2 =
and openssl 1.1.1



both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is 

OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023



>Anything more I can tell you that may help?



Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd pro=
blem.



-- 








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In-Reply-To: 
From: Joe Schaefer 
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 12:51:25 -0400
Message-ID: 
Subject: Re: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
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--0000000000009f218f0602a8864c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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% split -n $(nproc) foo.pdf; ls x* | xargs -P 0 -J % scp %
 user@bar.example.com:%; rm x*; ssh user@bar.example.com sh -c =E2=80=9Ccat=
 x* >
foo.pdf; rm x*=E2=80=9D

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM Joe Schaefer  wrote:

> If it=E2=80=99s just a single file, split it into chunks.
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:25 PM Joe Schaefer  wrote:
>
>> Why don=E2=80=99t you just use xargs -P until you=E2=80=99ve exhausted y=
our CPU capacity?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:10 AM void  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> >rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.
>>>
>>> I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions
>>> on both ends of the connection.
>>>
>>> Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other
>>> end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.
>>> What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency
>>> in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.
>>>
>>> >Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than th=
e
>>> network
>>> >can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it's
>>> running.
>>> >So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.
>>>
>>> Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
>>> end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end
>>>
>>> >As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data=
,
>>> 2 GB in
>>> >size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:
>>> >
>>> >The final result was:
>>> >
>>> > 100% 2000MB  43.5MB/s   00:46  (Note, that's MegaBYTES/s)
>>>
>>> I ran a similar test.
>>> Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,
>>> receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the
>>> sending
>>> direction):
>>>
>>> 100% 2000MB   7.2MB/s   04:36
>>>
>>> using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%    6.81MB/s    0:04:53 (xfr#1,
>>> to-chk=3D0/1)
>>>
>>> the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS
>>> sense
>>> for the duration of the test.
>>>
>>> >The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be
>>> decomissioned.
>>> >It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core
>>> 2.4Ghz amd64 box.
>>> >
>>> >The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2
>>> and openssl 1.1.1
>>>
>>> both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is
>>> OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023
>>>
>>> >Anything more I can tell you that may help?
>>>
>>> Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd problem=
.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>

--0000000000009f218f0602a8864c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


% split -n $(nproc) foo.pdf; ls x* | xargs -P 0 -J % scp =
% =C2=A0user@bar.example.com:%; rm x*; ssh user@bar.example.com sh -c =E2=80=9Ccat x* > foo.pdf; rm x*=
=E2=80=9D

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM Joe Schaefer <joesuf4@gmail.com> wrote:
If it=E2=80=99s just a single file, split i=
t into chunks.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:25 PM Joe Schaefer <joesuf4@gmail.com> =
wrote:
Why don=E2=80=99t you ju=
st use xargs -P until you=E2=80=99ve exhausted your CPU capacity?

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:10 AM void <void@f-m.fm> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones w=
rote:



>rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.


I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions=
 

on both ends of the connection.



Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other

end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.

What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency

in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.



>Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the=
 network

>can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it'=
;s running.

>So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.



Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end



>As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data,=
 2 GB in

>size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:

>

>The final result was:

>

> 100% 2000MB=C2=A0 43.5MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A000:46=C2=A0 (Note, that's M=
egaBYTES/s)



I ran a similar test.

Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,

receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the sending=


direction):



100% 2000MB=C2=A0 =C2=A07.2MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A004:36



using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 6.81MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0:=
04:53 (xfr#1, to-chk=3D0/1)



the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS sen=
se

for the duration of the test.



>The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be dec=
omissioned.

>It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core 2.4G=
hz amd64 box.

>

>The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2 =
and openssl 1.1.1



both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is 

OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023



>Anything more I can tell you that may help?



Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd pro=
blem.



-- 










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From: Joe Schaefer 
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 12:53:44 -0400
Message-ID: 
Subject: Re: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
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Put the split files on tmpfs for full effect

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:51 PM Joe Schaefer  wrote:

> % split -n $(nproc) foo.pdf; ls x* | xargs -P 0 -J % scp %
>  user@bar.example.com:%; rm x*; ssh user@bar.example.com sh -c =E2=80=9Cc=
at x* >
> foo.pdf; rm x*=E2=80=9D
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM Joe Schaefer  wrote:
>
>> If it=E2=80=99s just a single file, split it into chunks.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:25 PM Joe Schaefer  wrote:
>>
>>> Why don=E2=80=99t you just use xargs -P until you=E2=80=99ve exhausted =
your CPU capacity?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 10:10 AM void  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.
>>>>
>>>> I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max session=
s
>>>> on both ends of the connection.
>>>>
>>>> Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other
>>>> end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.
>>>> What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency
>>>> in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.
>>>>
>>>> >Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than
>>>> the network
>>>> >can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it's
>>>> running.
>>>> >So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.
>>>>
>>>> Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
>>>> end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end
>>>>
>>>> >As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random
>>>> data, 2 GB in
>>>> >size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:
>>>> >
>>>> >The final result was:
>>>> >
>>>> > 100% 2000MB  43.5MB/s   00:46  (Note, that's MegaBYTES/s)
>>>>
>>>> I ran a similar test.
>>>> Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,
>>>> receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the
>>>> sending
>>>> direction):
>>>>
>>>> 100% 2000MB   7.2MB/s   04:36
>>>>
>>>> using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%    6.81MB/s    0:04:53 (xfr#1,
>>>> to-chk=3D0/1)
>>>>
>>>> the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and O=
S
>>>> sense
>>>> for the duration of the test.
>>>>
>>>> >The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be
>>>> decomissioned.
>>>> >It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core
>>>> 2.4Ghz amd64 box.
>>>> >
>>>> >The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.=
2
>>>> and openssl 1.1.1
>>>>
>>>> both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is
>>>> OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023
>>>>
>>>> >Anything more I can tell you that may help?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd proble=
m.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>

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Put the split files on tmpfs for full effect=C2=A0
<=
div>
On=
 Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:51 PM Joe Schaefer <joesuf4@gmail.com> wrote:
% split -n $(nproc) foo.pdf; ls x* | xargs -P 0 -=
J % scp % =C2=A0user@bar.example.com:%; rm x*; ssh user@bar.example.com sh -c =E2=80=9Cc=
at x* > foo.pdf; rm x*=E2=80=9D

On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:27 PM Joe=
 Schaefer <joesuf=
4@gmail.com> wrote:
If i=
t=E2=80=99s just a single file, split it into chunks.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2=
023 at 12:25 PM Joe Schaefer <joesuf4@gmail.com> wrote:
Why don=E2=80=99t you just use xargs -P until you=E2=80=99ve=
 exhausted your CPU capacity?

On Fri, Aug 11, 2=
023 at 10:10 AM void <v=
oid@f-m.fm> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 a=
t 12:21:33PM +0100, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:



>rsync just spawns an ssh command, so would probably behave similarly.


I'm hoping that rsync will spawn many ssh. Need to look at max sessions=
 

on both ends of the connection.



Since encountering the described problem, the person at the other

end is away for the week so have not been able to test thoroughly.

What I have been able to test shows that there is spiky latency

in the connection, as well as slow speed, single-threaded.



>Another thing, scp transfers from my test Rpi2 are much slower than the=
 network

>can handle due to the CPU use, which hits 100% on one cpu whilst it'=
;s running.

>So, check that CPU isn't the bottleneck too.



Yup. That won't be happening here. Dual xenon with 56 cores at remote
end and same (but with 32 cores) at this end



>As for the speed, I just tested sftp to transfer a file of random data,=
 2 GB in

>size from one FreeBSD box in London to another in France:

>

>The final result was:

>

> 100% 2000MB=C2=A0 43.5MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A000:46=C2=A0 (Note, that's M=
egaBYTES/s)



I ran a similar test.

Sending system is on synchronous gigabit fibre on US east coast,

receiving system is near London on 110/21 fibre (so, gigabit in the sending=


direction):



100% 2000MB=C2=A0 =C2=A07.2MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A004:36



using rsync -azP : 2,097,152,000 100%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 6.81MB/s=C2=A0 =C2=A0 0:=
04:53 (xfr#1, to-chk=3D0/1)



the speed fluctulates a lot. Both systems are quiet in a network and OS sen=
se

for the duration of the test.



>The London box is pretty old, and is a virtual host scheduled to be dec=
omissioned.

>It is running an old openssl 1.X, openssh 8.8 and is a single core 2.4G=
hz amd64 box.

>

>The France box is a 4 core bare metal 3.1Ghz and64 running openssh 9.2 =
and openssl 1.1.1



both ends here are running very recent -current, so ssl/ssh is 

OpenSSH_9.3p1, OpenSSL 3.0.9 30 May 2023



>Anything more I can tell you that may help?



Thanks very much for your input. I'm certain it's not a freebsd pro=
blem.



-- 











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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2023 02:06:40 +0100
From: void 
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: can sftp be made multi-threaded?
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On Fri, Aug 11, 2023 at 12:51:25PM -0400, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>% split -n $(nproc) foo.pdf; ls x* | xargs -P 0 -J % scp %
> user@bar.example.com:%; rm x*; ssh user@bar.example.com sh -c “cat x* >
>foo.pdf; rm x*”

Thanks for that, I'll try it.

--