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To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.61 / 15.00]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(1.25)[subject]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.86)[-0.858]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjSQg3kH2z4sCW X-Spamd-Bar: - Hello there. My dedicated server provider does not support FreeBSD natively, Therefore I ordered a usb stick in addition, then burned FreeBSD iso in linux rescue mode within the terminal, afterwards I requested KVM access; so far, fine up to here.. However, the problem now is that, the FreeBSD installation says; "No interface specified for IPv4 configuration" It seems, FreeBSD does not recognize the NIC interface on that server? :/ According to the rescue mode; The mainboard is: ASUS System Product Name/PRIME B760M-A D4, BIOS 9017 02/07/2024 And one more info from rescue mode regarding network: RTL8226B_RTL8221B 2.5Gbps PHY r8169-0-500:00: attached PHY driver (mii_bus:phy_addr=3Dr8169-0-500:00, irq=3DMAC) r8169 0000:05:00.0 enp5s0: Link is Up - 1Gbps/Full - flow control rx/tx Any clue would be much appreciated. Regards, =C3=96zg=C3=BCr From nobody Tue Nov 5 13:27:40 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XjTfc4jzlz5c5sY for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 13:27:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from polarian@polarian.dev) Received: from mail.polarian.dev (mail.polarian.dev [IPv6:2001:8b0:57a:2385::8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XjTfb6Gk5z4yVG for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 13:27:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from polarian@polarian.dev) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=polarian.dev header.s=polarian header.b=TuNWfuj3; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of polarian@polarian.dev designates 2001:8b0:57a:2385::8 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=polarian@polarian.dev; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=polarian.dev Received: from Hydrogen (_gateway [192.168.2.1]) by mail.polarian.dev (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC82510A0780 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 13:27:41 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/relaxed; d=polarian.dev; s=polarian; t=1730813261; bh=T7OioMFTftBNvDD0ZSjmXgp94sb9nZCaUuPmFJaV1cA=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=TuNWfuj36/k/ENRVXHA7bUQ3hQ6IQApHf1sRRjznGGMjO9e8ZCNXhDU+RlUJMcmvW RvLTlEBExInTzwULgy7ONQ+LTgRgbxhD6/ecu7xGpb87XyvdqTqOiZX7j3/axszRSs JEJ75DtDn6ktGLMQ6gIMMY3mbzDQ81j/tMz2eSuc= Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 13:27:40 +0000 From: Polarian To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Network interface is not recognized? Message-ID: <20241105132740.4fd446b6@Hydrogen> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.1) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[polarian.dev,reject]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:8b0:57a:2385::8]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[polarian.dev:s=polarian]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20712, ipnet:2001:8b0::/34, country:GB]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[polarian.dev:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjTfb6Gk5z4yVG X-Spamd-Bar: -- Hello, I looked from a driver for the NIC but it doesn't appear the chipset is supported. You could try the realtek driver from ports [1] but it is not listed as a supported chipset. Take care, -- Polarian GPG signature: 0770E5312238C760 Jabber/XMPP: polarian@icebound.dev [1] https://www.freshports.org/net/realtek-re-kmod/ From nobody Tue Nov 5 17:02:03 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XjZPt2P8sz5cL6B for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 17:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf@quillandmouse.com) Received: from dog.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (dog.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.48]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XjZPs0344z45VR for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 17:02:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf@quillandmouse.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=quillandmouse.com header.s=dreamhost header.b=GWcGWQoE; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paulf@quillandmouse.com designates 23.83.212.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paulf@quillandmouse.com; dmarc=none; arc=pass ("mailchannels.net:s=arc-2022:i=1") X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DC61A7BD9 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 17:02:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a242.dreamhost.com (trex-5.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.107.241.166]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 54C111A7D2D for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 17:02:05 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1730826125; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lA+XNg/uK7/8xd/kcffF9R+UETayPBQjsSC49PD3MsZCyYOf+LMecdGK29UE7zZwDW0Kby zqtv5hN34XjcCG+kwXg4ZKjLOSXEXd4Zc57vyVBciKo6ST6+bS7APeYnIy94x89SSe8FnA YpmCZOfGIoiU5bNw+QGs+kqSfKnxaCTKN2gbyJ7X9yxbWecHocSZotxV/kmiYFXsIrKalh N2o6QCbxgqOumNkNbtw3dJD1flZK5KN5nMrg+CiiZ5lM7w8F/TcT+So14XeK+kQ/b1crJV n5O4OIrKJdIUb9fMLm6q3dwQgnDEKQHbeb40joERrcsuIxr5DjS65jI8qP8jfA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1730826125; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:dkim-signature; bh=ankbLSi5L/RankR29aThvUsLeHM9rO00KFd8EPL7jeE=; b=6O5BpBBcOLZaBuQ2Iujmbt+CW9PwHaonOoMnp2fE2J6fu69BQFAXxvr+sTybzN1UkmA/Ki kaU/7H78DtAF10gRrPLtB04GXyHNe8gDDWLNFk1RvtNAM1FGZDAEDiWEPLAgLQBMzaI6fk EOVAE5TmJFG8GSQ1WQoUGE7ozzqVfefV5MAfst4sRHvgFtisrdkXorGytYF8N2qk/1c0rt iQXecdjdzfZpZ9NztgaV1fnbAyTbT0WkUrsI/hA4jxL3YKnCJu9rOYftAL36L8JYE1itsy dERpSdSgQWcvifaAaCX/YdlxvAS3C08J6iv5J0C/kLq7uAR/kEHGHIWbGOM0OQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-6c6b6c849d-ptv56; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=paulf@quillandmouse.com X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Absorbed-Plucky: 4f1072b42a66996b_1730826125545_495898173 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1730826125545:1346377134 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1730826125545 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a242.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.107.241.166 (trex/7.0.2); Tue, 05 Nov 2024 17:02:05 +0000 Received: from [192.168.4.30] (unknown [216.82.56.90]) (Authenticated sender: paulf@quillandmouse.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a242.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4XjZPn0MZSz3V for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 09:02:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quillandmouse.com; s=dreamhost; t=1730826125; bh=ankbLSi5L/RankR29aThvUsLeHM9rO00KFd8EPL7jeE=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GWcGWQoE79q23EqlQOS7pz1R4Kqud/HjkGauQB+R8NGbreI8HtlZeKGJVI+cLSLSZ FD1wtnA7OQ0U3Jhij2X7CPsWAKpf6B2SbIHFEnzDNB1YDaywEOFB/aYMw9j/M7hhb2 u6qfZbgVC41IgYgVB8eWhjd4VzXulCzOP6PkclL/gPGVRuDt7zD/0UHB0cUHbJ9BFX G4AHU4IcPkPFdxjRT1rq4hMwrBIWyITtg1jKeH8VplXIxAqMuU/lFl8HRZ80Tpbsvg yfqir5CJXymFfdOxMR6zjtlyat9NJZNT95sji669LE8BaMH5lQXApeDH2UyuD3UsDW ilL/d1trj208g== Message-ID: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 12:02:03 -0500 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: "Paul M. Foster" Subject: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.49 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[mailchannels.net:s=arc-2022:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:23.83.208.0/20]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[quillandmouse.com:s=dreamhost]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36483, ipnet:23.83.208.0/21, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[23.83.212.48:from]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[23.83.212.48:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[quillandmouse.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[quillandmouse.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjZPs0344z45VR X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Folks: Trying to configure Postfix to route local mail (internet is later). During a telnet conversation with Postfix to send it mail for a local user, it chokes on paulf@localhost recipient, with a 451 4.3.0 error. This is my user, and it's in the /etc/passwd file. So I don't understand why it doesn't understand the recipient email address. And yes, localhost is 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/hosts file. Can anyone enlighten me? Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster From nobody Tue Nov 5 17:08:07 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XjZY10qkDz5cL8w for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 17:08:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pprocacci@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com (mail-ed1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XjZY06Dqjz46jp for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 17:08:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pprocacci@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5c9404c0d50so6903220a12.3 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:08:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730826498; x=1731431298; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=3Kk3FtC5y8MWsNGXnT4goziJu+LKbWuGrrY5EVR612Q=; b=krWI35PPvPDNte4kSDeo3o8OYwllEVZybyx97CfiAo2vB1cbif5ZEhAVAF5wNEziBE 9tXnsY5e4l8PEPF47lYwkTajgW9+sSArCk25d+2sNWXfjHl5d4BvC5IUWpsWGdi0yf8L hAfPUMPkCye09xDUc7twcpIl0/3MZzCfaNuOtkAKgcCI5ciQ9fOox26lSVusUMQmV4Xz W95062k9WC/wwEtD1x16YtN0hRk5DRANeTDR0EwwAK0TOQuUiA4/bDhAcPcsBfyDAKED UYD9kzf5y6gLFU482F1vR5NqfWXdHeLBzwigcU069AzVEbNV1IUFIdkcgHqZLeRf4Ull 2uXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730826498; x=1731431298; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3Kk3FtC5y8MWsNGXnT4goziJu+LKbWuGrrY5EVR612Q=; b=NvejAPRlb7qAC3Nr15wKdylEqUYv7qm86DyBJ0+g5JFvpUAQDSyJN9bEgeSKmwNUq8 iy85dJoWhbXG6ExJM7idJUAMBELeZXqZJYHAUbNLp0wmI3tP/32f7hxMXGGrEdwrwRDr 7CexCZ6gZLaCs0M84Cr3igsD/FcjWp8ahQjOWaxL31pwsbAlMXXlLo6k3hZc45ZwI8lV NebWexwUQKMZptbpMZ65D6A5/FN1MMxqieBTokalIPUWG+tqKRh8UxMDe2CHK/nWFyLs OPjMl2iEFeGjSXx1xDeHkQQOWD/RFfD4O+FjZj5WMfVKdbfpDG577bOQIZn5hE3dzsxj BRVw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxul6S2xccOpDYUXGqYb98fiwNHzgawopHkTgnbaye8gh10eBB5 NIp88+ssYiSEIHKxJrZHq3X4V5/06DAOQTv6HdU/ePSpqn2rMw/hcAv8t4gPLLnXbk26KMGEAYu n8vuEXKmKyPWtmaGUSSDgoCKLqas4Ins= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFZN56opZafTjxbJU8aGk6k8oUEWhjPRQArYrW3Aw/cw0ruPBSlXQsQ57a5WqR42/WFRKYEBSyHtLQvAx1P2/M= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:51cd:b0:5ce:df9a:3632 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5cedf9a3664mr4718321a12.1.1730826497796; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 09:08:17 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> In-Reply-To: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> From: Paul Procacci Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 12:08:07 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix To: "Paul M. Foster" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjZY06Dqjz46jp X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:02=E2=80=AFPM Paul M. Foster wrote: > > Folks: > > Trying to configure Postfix to route local mail (internet is later). > During a telnet conversation with Postfix to send it mail for a local > user, it chokes on paulf@localhost recipient, with a 451 4.3.0 error. > This is my user, and it's in the /etc/passwd file. So I don't understand > why it doesn't understand the recipient email address. And yes, > localhost is 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/hosts file. > > Can anyone enlighten me? > > Paul > > -- > Paul M. Foster > Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com > Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com > Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster > > You should probably include your config. My guess is postfix needs to be told explicitly that localhost is a domain it's servicing yet hasn't been told that. ~Paul --=20 __________________ :(){ :|:& };: From nobody Tue Nov 5 18:42:15 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XjcdV5dH4z5cR1x for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 18:42:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf@quillandmouse.com) Received: from eastern.ash.relay.mailchannels.net (eastern.ash.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.222.55]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XjcdT6lNmz4JwY for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 18:42:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf@quillandmouse.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5398D1C5C9B; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 18:42:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a311.dreamhost.com (trex-1.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.103.137.60]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id DF4661C5C3C; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 18:42:19 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1730832139; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HhjM5RCYDRo0+NXsKIAu90JNfKoBN+x5jKTKXUxT+kCqJEU0jRbijehtf0Su6MVf+QJnb5 rA0YyIvFs3yrIVxu0RX9UTp/COVFVzhLB0h1XUvr4SCrRSa7FmTMIMWDwe3pq7/0Ucd63l IDbc5TsnzafgFRYKj5p0rJ9k9Itq2JjMmQwOy2hVkcDKGkbERhpEHuQxo6ovSgIW5T6RKl Grbnaa7P75SQJxzEzqSAnQAupp4HVAhO64sCYgcrj3X/lLJ8AjrZDQ2O7POx9xVsv0CE9x zYlCH6kl7gng7YSbs5p9FpAYAGl/xvdDak0CQPAs2gbiRsrAvQh4WV9MlH7KDw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1730832139; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=W0ixhDMQoVXMBQmEPX9qCVOEfjc7V4PhlnYZyo4yLJI=; b=pW0mCSCq/5NppVB9aKIahduMqASjaX8GNQ1V0b0oRLEz3D6zQspjIQAzHo1kJ6q7dXUTGv F+SJTkb3Qhv0Ycrf3j19wqFklZqf+YWWtZoetI2sWw8nO9wG/ZJBvFyWQIKieLn0p6IJYt 6Aa2+3GtdNpxGIbjp5+m5piSLPEc+L1jpy901MWReqHWgyq5/QhXqRsZ0bTOZjhf0FXoPd gR8nXAXkPyLrkBFS/ksajhIYmsBFTqJdZvLzpygvaowJCvvPUkhF0g/pdHdBvOMcobr0sO OveDI9VA7sBoPPpwlyemyOodnD7E1u6pIlkISRnk5MmPoQz5XZAHhrWJGi+m0g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-696f47875-2rfrj; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=paulf@quillandmouse.com X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Blushing-Arch: 6106783f65a73d09_1730832140150_1511386846 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1730832140150:4064072699 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1730832140149 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a311.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.103.137.60 (trex/7.0.2); Tue, 05 Nov 2024 18:42:20 +0000 Received: from [192.168.4.30] (unknown [216.82.56.90]) (Authenticated sender: paulf@quillandmouse.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a311.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4XjcdR2txCz9r; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 10:42:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quillandmouse.com; s=dreamhost; t=1730832139; bh=W0ixhDMQoVXMBQmEPX9qCVOEfjc7V4PhlnYZyo4yLJI=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=DPalEGQMvamTrjqrZZQ2mU6udjGZL9pxvM+t8sO9Um7ZMqaPZjxbE7ZEWhUCQaJ8t GEvipHY4Pn6ahzr8snmsUvZdEVYqV9a5lnLL14f+16GCzMxgTyEYilHd9o+ieWI7ox y+2cuww9GGeqP11kCNHFz3/ifhcfr9yzHDVD9WvhpIcPPt06RJ5/pIeQLyUxdRlzcz SCeA8YaQ9DUt0/RayrTn9sKEE8qJ5sgv7vwZYcCWJzp4l1r/ZYVhzVmapV1m4CmCUo IxYd/KOq8S9CKZKIA1BiqhW5VOxt4CvvFXZFCgl6RMRvkSbQ9Mj8P06PqL47B9qmtj qbi3d6cXvmnlA== Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 13:42:15 -0500 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix To: Paul Procacci Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> Content-Language: en-US From: "Paul M. Foster" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:63213, ipnet:23.83.222.0/24, country:CA] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjcdT6lNmz4JwY X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On 11/5/24 12:08, Paul Procacci wrote: > On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:02 PM Paul M. Foster wrote: >> Folks: >> >> Trying to configure Postfix to route local mail (internet is later). >> During a telnet conversation with Postfix to send it mail for a local >> user, it chokes on paulf@localhost recipient, with a 451 4.3.0 error. >> This is my user, and it's in the /etc/passwd file. So I don't understand >> why it doesn't understand the recipient email address. And yes, >> localhost is 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/hosts file. >> >> Can anyone enlighten me? >> >> Paul >> >> ou should probably include your config. >> My guess is postfix needs to be told explicitly that localhost is a >> domain it's servicing yet hasn't been told that. >> >> ~Paul Contents of /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf: === sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail myhostname = banzai mydomain = mars.lan mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost inet_interfaces = $myhostname, localhost mynetworks_style = hosts default_transport = error: outside mail is not deliverable === Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster From nobody Tue Nov 5 19:11:30 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XjdHP5XD8z5cSc3 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 19:11:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pprocacci@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XjdHM6F9xz4N4k for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 19:11:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pprocacci@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a9a0ec0a94fso938110466b.1 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 11:11:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730833901; x=1731438701; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=awG9B4orKuHZ5mV3Lc+RLPVT/jWlZuNmvJ3RfULW8Yg=; b=BfnAZluIP4g1STLUVvl4pGV83Cmb9zXVwA5b/0hPvyHYDNHQhjldcI7fXp20XziIy+ tEvBGTA+pnp28j87gbMdaxIhrxTtIwXMltGnZZ//zfzkDJm4DODJitnKUCp260ZMxICz 1Spwo29Jd4IaGt4k58Wl5ydvMkw3bXfkbKFCNdW9Bw/h4hSdLrTnmNlqqJn74RuN+5Nk yZgANJmOtcP1I0wpViPSm97Hcxi5Meli6+1zRHqwSI2oVz7A0eG2i+EIF/BzBposvMSi +Byu5rqMwK/wEQB6FcYAcMhz64tM45qLX0nzOK4JLomW5BTH2Mwgr+Tg5WTgBgNDQhl3 V4XQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730833901; x=1731438701; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=awG9B4orKuHZ5mV3Lc+RLPVT/jWlZuNmvJ3RfULW8Yg=; b=OBRrbNAmEF0WAUD6qEXubR1Q39q5n6PCMCgpcYEQpJPTgiQss03fgGcTkeCrqqLfES 0VNLoune9K5Dwn/yEiBe83mi7rjVlKjqm8toJKnIwfecA1nHwMebfa2f5QcVt7dZC/ak lpu/kUf0/1kE9DbnrRUJkb758cyIKikWXaem+J+kW3KmCLkmY5mTV/W8pc1HBuHE3g65 2/fxs6mYOrSVKkEKOLY3m/Qmbq+j+RDH1okyKPwnPfro1WNXvVwMebEQMNdpeeJWkkUF mah5ve5jBOuCmpJo5eeww22zVOwfN/SmWO8zYaSyK4+KLUx1mVXuHR3cGo2F4keLrS6p +r6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwSaUBYVVH6DJQuyJu3Cyy1r1iB/QZQa31XlcSRUT+PpFPaMORr H9cHxnwI0CwVgBRO2u72uAVOzsIH4olfZ3LGsMNroIxsP83sHQa+HUWcxCSe5h/pIDx+0nVat2P WEohYejrWo/3vK/ep9c/Ip8VyVaalKabOIw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFKgTuJ3xF36sayM+xNvfvS/xdEQhTfKo108oUeD+2RMzG3HXTqqaWYYZObtN2fJ6xwTODTP4Fk5ycCtp/zuRA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:7305:b0:a9e:c267:2040 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a9ec2672423mr73498566b.51.1730833900337; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 11:11:40 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> In-Reply-To: From: Paul Procacci Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 14:11:30 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix To: "Paul M. Foster" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjdHM6F9xz4N4k X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 1:42=E2=80=AFPM Paul M. Foster wrote: > > > On 11/5/24 12:08, Paul Procacci wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:02=E2=80=AFPM Paul M. Foster wrote: > >> Folks: > >> > >> Trying to configure Postfix to route local mail (internet is later). > >> During a telnet conversation with Postfix to send it mail for a local > >> user, it chokes on paulf@localhost recipient, with a 451 4.3.0 error. > >> This is my user, and it's in the /etc/passwd file. So I don't understa= nd > >> why it doesn't understand the recipient email address. And yes, > >> localhost is 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/hosts file. > >> > >> Can anyone enlighten me? > >> > >> Paul > >> > >> ou should probably include your config. > >> My guess is postfix needs to be told explicitly that localhost is a > >> domain it's servicing yet hasn't been told that. > >> > >> ~Paul > > > Contents of /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf: > > =3D=3D=3D > > sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > myhostname =3D banzai > > mydomain =3D mars.lan > > mydestination =3D $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost > > inet_interfaces =3D $myhostname, localhost > > mynetworks_style =3D hosts > > default_transport =3D error: outside mail is not deliverable > > =3D=3D=3D > > Paul > > -- > Paul M. Foster > Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com > Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com > Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster > "mynetworks_style =3D hosts" This setting only forwards mail from the local machine only. If you're telnet'ing to the port on 25 or whatever, this isn't any longer considered local. That's my hunch here anyways. Here's the documentation for it: https://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html I could be misunderstanding it too as I don't use postfix, but maybe someone else could confirm this. ~Paul --=20 __________________ :(){ :|:& };: From nobody Tue Nov 5 19:25:17 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xjdbk1qr1z5cTX4 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 19:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com (mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xjdbj6bFLz4Ppg for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 19:25:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from odhiambo@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5eb67d926c4so67638eaf.0 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 11:25:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730834752; x=1731439552; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Bs/nB1xxnfu1HR46DVt/JnyGe6Xi8sGwdkjaMRZWIII=; b=F2uAL8FwR/SCoSRbxetylyJrihKb9iDyd1plSVHlv8jDuDwI7uxXia5sUhpnnj41E+ ihn0JWs5SwJIpkU39jQ63ZKWh1rlhTsDS6AM4qEEKwGe2HvS/k6YPHOLbMbB9TegIDI+ Un5edhvPNag1/3TZT1hQ2e/QmP2g5vCoDd1O1n4asdn7I+wojLELSE8eZT9SfIC2z+mJ b/zgskmgzKiX0UaJUvSdMVOIOgrEdP4leVDWRexADuOA8BNwUiD9nx+b1LxZjDcaOFVr h9FXGFmDKERRVR5stPRKcAPvUhPv3s4lw8qKE6N+8yJpNTODI8Ucono1ByiopW6lcdBd eXMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730834752; x=1731439552; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Bs/nB1xxnfu1HR46DVt/JnyGe6Xi8sGwdkjaMRZWIII=; b=Ozz9jErgoLDOd9EXhciihSkP+0SbWWTw7Tlf/PXnS+dmJq//gfBHByGBizdJaxW3sH FLEAmwsLnavEY2b0LGODtRbCtSjls/BOm1Mkgudz+Gljr4Jt3v/4LbbOFL29nWBk42kZ poC/jihONLDV0sfS3laQdwVb1fiz2XkH29VoR5XZ5ddDdcFRnLK7VL83zi6r0+174IBe x0OMohSJxskYqLY6CRYr87QHOCyHK/WbE8iJBmQ3ZgXCNJQONrSADLH/ofARuiqUo2r5 G3/QNUJ0GGDJtmxgu3qw9pZiACP1IQ9hkfGi+t8VdXMxPcaFNpkokia13Kyn/bL3tOey qPaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxtBzPq7IKn8bvtqve4uW0WuOl3CTxg4BP1ientlj1JvvTZ3Qh1 TiCgKhOUELUaVKfl3HwM+XTcaNZFbGjM61ybTddgVCcM8GVGjXyJNtq8jZxl+MSxqJS5v1cWOfK I1hlvRR2LBqkudyzE+xrr32pBHYjiOgCXRWc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEy3d9JZw+Vv+D3SH+1KRVSzVa1uhk8ZnAsd7r1m/Gphm+xQbCxi1sQLTNoS1gjFl43U2pbiw9o+LluaWH58eg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:1b85:b0:5d6:ab0:b9a6 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5edeaed48c4mr8342930eaf.4.1730834752564; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 11:25:52 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> In-Reply-To: From: Odhiambo Washington Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 22:25:17 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: "Paul M. Foster" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009779fd06262f5e54" X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xjdbj6bFLz4Ppg X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --0000000000009779fd06262f5e54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 9:42=E2=80=AFPM Paul M. Foster wrote: > > On 11/5/24 12:08, Paul Procacci wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:02=E2=80=AFPM Paul M. Foster > wrote: > >> Folks: > >> > >> Trying to configure Postfix to route local mail (internet is later). > >> During a telnet conversation with Postfix to send it mail for a local > >> user, it chokes on paulf@localhost recipient, with a 451 4.3.0 error. > >> This is my user, and it's in the /etc/passwd file. So I don't understa= nd > >> why it doesn't understand the recipient email address. And yes, > >> localhost is 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/hosts file. > >> > >> Can anyone enlighten me? > >> > >> Paul > >> > >> ou should probably include your config. > >> My guess is postfix needs to be told explicitly that localhost is a > >> domain it's servicing yet hasn't been told that. > >> > >> ~Paul > > > Contents of /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf: > > =3D=3D=3D > > sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > That should be the end of mailer.conf! > > myhostname =3D banzai > > mydomain =3D mars.lan > > mydestination =3D $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost > > inet_interfaces =3D $myhostname, localhost > > mynetworks_style =3D hosts > > default_transport =3D error: outside mail is not deliverable > Postfix reads /usr/local/etc/postfix/main.conf and other files in that directory. You should read more about Postfix. I doubt it cares about mailer.conf. Those config params up there should me in main.conf for them to make sense to Postfix. --=20 Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 In an Internet failure case, the #1 suspect is a constant: DNS. "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html] --0000000000009779fd06262f5e54 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 9:42=E2=80=AFP= M Paul M. Foster <paulf@quill= andmouse.com> wrote:

On 11/5/24 12:08, Paul Procacci wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 12:02=E2=80=AFPM Paul M. Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> wrote:
>> Folks:
>>
>> Trying to configure Postfix to route local mail (internet is later= ).
>> During a telnet conversation with Postfix to send it mail for a lo= cal
>> user, it chokes on paulf@localhost recipient, with a 451 4.3.0 err= or.
>> This is my user, and it's in the /etc/passwd file. So I don= 9;t understand
>> why it doesn't understand the recipient email address. And yes= ,
>> localhost is 127.0.0.1 in the /etc/hosts file.
>>
>> Can anyone enlighten me?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> ou should probably include your config.
>> My guess is postfix needs to be told explicitly that localhost is = a
>> domain it's servicing yet hasn't been told that.
>>
>> ~Paul


Contents of /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf:

=3D=3D=3D

sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail

send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail

mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail

newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail



myhostname =3D banzai

mydomain =3D mars.lan

mydestination =3D $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost

inet_interfaces =3D $myhostname, localhost

mynetworks_style =3D hosts

default_transport =3D error: outside mail is not deliverable

Postfix reads /usr/local/etc/postfix/main.conf and ot= her files in that directory. You should read more about Postfix.
= I doubt it cares about mailer.conf.=C2=A0
Those config params up = there should me in main.conf for them to make sense to Postfix.
<= br>

--
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Tue, 05 Nov 2024 12:35:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([2001:9e8:c43d:3e00:953:1893:5dbd:2e24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-a9eb16a30e8sm180893066b.3.2024.11.05.12.35.36 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 05 Nov 2024 12:35:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 21:35:35 +0100 From: Daniel Tameling To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dma: could not pick up queue file Message-ID: References: <22042f18-4cbb-4f62-841b-fef4a7262899@app.fastmail.com> <1c49d4a22aefd22541a526d387912eb3@dalescott.net> <20241031225337.288E8A4F1F81@ary.qy> <382f9b53-0d5e-0fd3-5d9f-9d1a8954dd5b@iecc.com> <00907865-86c5-4fb4-bc3f-0c795de2f6fc@taugh.com> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.98 / 15.00]; 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If there are no more incidents, I say you've solved it. Let's give it a few weeks. > > Thank you. Good job. :) Thanks. If something is running automatically that isn't started by cron, periodic is always a good candidate. Btw.: there still is a dma port and its pkg-message says: And you can disable some sendmail specific daily maintenance routines in your /etc/periodic.conf file: daily_clean_hoststat_enable="NO" daily_status_mail_rejects_enable="NO" daily_status_include_submit_mailq="NO" daily_submit_queuerun="NO" The last one almost looks like what you set. The man page says: daily_queuerun_enable (bool) Set to "YES" if you want to manually run the mail queue at least once a day. daily_submit_queuerun (bool) Set to "YES" if you also want to manually run the submit mail queue at least once a day when daily_queuerun_enable is set to "YES". So it looks like you found the parent of daily_submit_queuerun. Hopefully that fixes the issue. Best regards, Daniel From nobody Wed Nov 6 01:38:18 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xjnsm39GMz5btpc for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 01:38:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Received: from mail.sermon-archive.info (sermon-archive.info [47.181.130.121]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xjnsl51dYz4vl4 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 01:38:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bc979@lafn.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bc979@lafn.org designates 47.181.130.121 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bc979@lafn.org; dmarc=none Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [10.0.1.251]) by mail.sermon-archive.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Xjnsc6PqLz2fjSs; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 17:38:28 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Hardie Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.200.121\)) Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 17:38:18 -0800 References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, "Paul M. Foster" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1AE57A39-D2DA-43A4-B21D-60F26A21FE02@sermon-archive.info> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.200.121) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 1.3.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.14 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.95)[0.950]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5650, ipnet:47.181.128.0/18, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[lafn.org: no valid DMARC record]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xjnsl51dYz4vl4 X-Spamd-Bar: - >>=20 >> sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail >>=20 >> send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail >>=20 >> mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail >>=20 >> newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail >>=20 You have told the system to use sendmail, not postfix. See the handbook = for how to configure mailer.conf for postfix and then configure postfix. = See the postix documentation on the web for instructions. if you have = issues, there is a how to get help section in the documentation. Follow = that and use the postfix maillist. -- Doug From nobody Wed Nov 6 03:41:15 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XjrbS2kzJz5c1ym for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 03:41:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Received: from havoc.proulx.com (havoc.proulx.com [198.99.81.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XjrbR0vRHz44wv for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 03:41:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=proulx.com header.s=dkim2048 header.b=BVtLF9c9; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@proulx.com designates 198.99.81.74 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bob@proulx.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=proulx.com Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A858B0 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:41:15 -0700 (MST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proulx.com; s=dkim2048; t=1730864475; bh=x177LdfR5BC5XyIkyw05PGd2PE/SoA2aU6fou8XdHgk=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=BVtLF9c9IBdq0YkpHqrQqNvOI3N1una7N54a1Um9oLkrMQwA8BLH5GRth2OTiy/ix tI+JEfNmXfcISg6koih/n3D7Hg4nVbeKDIKeQSjE6gScItQ8XEH463D21VtdSFjmBS 69YPMJ8827cjHHgVTT3mKl1hi7pQrFaVzaXKq6pN+q8UW/EW6xonsM8IOvWhl+qG6f Tf6rf2F7Wz+LFclJcstLpOL1/wKIcG5UoNjXEUOEdjv2+r0gAFkqGTfslMz4LUTtXI BUcS0LDOx3lSkm9SlYMXAFxpF0CXZmKijUZrA7CjZ7uq+TpfFOlloRBOYkecYlWBci 0RVuFPUNCD03w== Received: from madness.proulx.com (madness.proulx.com [192.168.230.122]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7727A068 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:41:15 -0700 (MST) Received: by madness.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5D98081016; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 20:41:15 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:41:15 -0700 From: Bob Proulx To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix Message-ID: <20241105203524638613094@bob.proulx.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[proulx.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[proulx.com:s=dkim2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:397142, ipnet:198.99.80.0/22, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[proulx.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjrbR0vRHz44wv X-Spamd-Bar: --- Paul M. Foster wrote: > Trying to configure Postfix to route local mail (internet is later). During > a telnet conversation with Postfix to send it mail for a local user, it I highly recommend using the swaks mail test utility to help with this type of testing. It's much easier than chatting using telnet. Try it and I am sure you will like it! swaks --to=rwp@localhost --server=localhost > chokes on paulf@localhost recipient, with a 451 4.3.0 error. This is my > user, and it's in the /etc/passwd file. So I don't understand why it doesn't > understand the recipient email address. And yes, localhost is 127.0.0.1 in > the /etc/hosts file. It all depends upon your postfix configuration but localhost is probably not listed in mydestination. rwp@madness:~$ postconf mydestination mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost Bob From nobody Wed Nov 6 03:42:33 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xjrcq12Ltz5c2PC for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 03:42:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Received: from havoc.proulx.com (havoc.proulx.com [198.99.81.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xjrcp2rwdz467w for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 03:42:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=proulx.com header.s=dkim2048 header.b=eKmBh3+i; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@proulx.com designates 198.99.81.74 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bob@proulx.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=proulx.com Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D61DB0 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:42:33 -0700 (MST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proulx.com; s=dkim2048; t=1730864553; bh=wvpEvJ2ovtQVv645Dc/tC1VmYiz3K4I/JqD4QuYBgGM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=eKmBh3+iZujuLLFzCo9LcamXkLqbAwBanmDq9VvpffMAFitFPbbAYWgVM13YcEiNc /PzRnpTjHDP3rdsn1ThBHL0aQXktLJyfjvcZSfVNapGJHuZXJ5w2hz++IIrWv9F5vJ hSQkbh7Lv3zn3TPvb7o+HhM+LsHyDyj1WY9y/azmbmvjBAHRPzjvHgT6jkknclOtUe BbfwaEspSBXyLkHD7ZksPudjYF3K1ZNhrl05pamCzD9dPhBL94KiLjZl4N3No7rTeR McRCpisBryx9hfP7tugVad/EvMznsww/5QYMcRQ8dN7HliFFmn2Zy1ogQQRG6hFxXW dXWwsZaxaJXNA== Received: from madness.proulx.com (madness.proulx.com [192.168.230.122]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F06E7A068 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:42:33 -0700 (MST) Received: by madness.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1C1D581017; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 20:42:33 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:42:33 -0700 From: Bob Proulx To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix Message-ID: <20241105203124402009897@bob.proulx.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> <1AE57A39-D2DA-43A4-B21D-60F26A21FE02@sermon-archive.info> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1AE57A39-D2DA-43A4-B21D-60F26A21FE02@sermon-archive.info> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[proulx.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[proulx.com:s=dkim2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:397142, ipnet:198.99.80.0/22, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[proulx.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xjrcp2rwdz467w X-Spamd-Bar: --- Doug Hardie wrote: > >> sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > >> send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > >> mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > >> newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > You have told the system to use sendmail, not postfix. I know it looks that way but actually no, if postfix is installed then that is postfix. The Sendmail in base is in /usr/sbin/sendmail instead. Since it is /usr/local/sbin/sendmail that looks like the postfix install to me. When postfix is installed it installs the sendmail binary as /usr/local/sbin/sendmail and so the above is actually referring to postfix. rwp@madness:~$ pkg info -l postfix | grep bin/sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail Bob From nobody Wed Nov 6 03:46:50 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xjrjn5mfbz5c2Rx for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 03:46:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Received: from havoc.proulx.com (havoc.proulx.com [198.99.81.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xjrjm6Y34z46tH for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 03:46:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bob@proulx.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=proulx.com header.s=dkim2048 header.b=olpAD6X3; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bob@proulx.com designates 198.99.81.74 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bob@proulx.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=proulx.com Received: from joseki.proulx.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by havoc.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D24632E0 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:46:51 -0700 (MST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proulx.com; s=dkim2048; t=1730864811; bh=7hcY9j/6ZDh4+7CcIROfMMRHtGCTInna6/hoVqcOE9w=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=olpAD6X3IgaIEAOhGgHZriVOf+UQZYz3hhUabGezLVXqBXE546neQlGWoy4gTIoE/ UuROO4NYpFujTuHmTJXe7tq2dMvI4RpjcoFLczPEssDXMii/592AgCUGvxg9vyrYjk hFiOm8TFf8HlcamkyVG0IbZqBuCH2ta0BM8giFp8MgvYhYWkuTVrasJLH1WTU9G1uP JZA2D8Rvhs/LHxPT2Gdxixz/C775Fn8VSFDfT6P68Th6CYUMcIX+sRHwrQnFF+YL8g kR6M+sA6EH+5WKsWdO4zdjPKEEtcNgqIuHv9fww+4woF+Lt8KdcgMs6z6Op3IiZ35N we/yEtQVF0ZMw== Received: from madness.proulx.com (madness.proulx.com [192.168.230.122]) by joseki.proulx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C2E7A068 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: by madness.proulx.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0DAB48105B; Tue, 05 Nov 2024 20:46:50 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 20:46:50 -0700 From: Bob Proulx To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix Message-ID: <20241105204320325210482@bob.proulx.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.95 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.954]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[proulx.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[proulx.com:s=dkim2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:397142, ipnet:198.99.80.0/22, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[proulx.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xjrjm6Y34z46tH X-Spamd-Bar: --- Paul M. Foster wrote: > Contents of /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf: > > === > > sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > myhostname = banzai > mydomain = mars.lan > mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost > inet_interfaces = $myhostname, localhost > mynetworks_style = hosts > default_transport = error: outside mail is not deliverable If all of that is in /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf then that's the wrong location for those later lines. The first four are okay. sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > myhostname = banzai > mydomain = mars.lan > mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost > inet_interfaces = $myhostname, localhost > mynetworks_style = hosts > default_transport = error: outside mail is not deliverable Those lines don't belong in the mailer.conf file. Those are postfix configuration and belong in the postfix main.cf configuration file. Bob From nobody Wed Nov 6 04:16:13 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XjsP75rfzz5c3x9 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 04:17:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kpn@neutralgood.org) Received: from gunsight1.NeutralGood.ORG (gunsight1.neutralgood.org [206.196.19.100]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "gunsight1.neutralgood.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XjsP64tKVz4BqK for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 04:17:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kpn@neutralgood.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kpn@neutralgood.org designates 206.196.19.100 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kpn@neutralgood.org; dmarc=none Received: from gunsight1.NeutralGood.ORG (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gunsight1.NeutralGood.ORG (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 4A64GD9x013354 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 23:16:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kpn@gunsight1.NeutralGood.ORG) Received: (from kpn@localhost) by gunsight1.NeutralGood.ORG (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 4A64GDHU013274 for questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 23:16:13 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from kpn) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 23:16:13 -0500 From: "Kevin P. Neal" To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: How to zero a failing disk drive before disposal? Message-ID: References: <5117.1728561469@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <2544410a-8a99-4b2e-a194-c8326a2e0ddd@heuristicsystems.com.au> <0bd5d79d35bb036fc73cd226edae1b969b22e3ee.camel@riseup.net> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0bd5d79d35bb036fc73cd226edae1b969b22e3ee.camel@riseup.net> X-No-archive: Yes X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.27 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.973]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13649, ipnet:206.196.0.0/19, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[neutralgood.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XjsP64tKVz4BqK X-Spamd-Bar: -- A bit late to the game, I know, but... On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Fri, 2024-10-11 at 13:42 +1100, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: > > I worked for a provider of services for the statutory care of children > > (eg removed from parents). [...] We bench-drilled the hard-disks > > before sending them (out of our chain of custody) to a furnace. > > +1 > Criminals and secret services will think twice about whether it is worth > subjecting the Lunchbucket family's hard drive to time-consuming and > costly forensic treatment. This actually hints at the correct way of thinking about this problem. Anytime you think about security, you need to think about what you are trying to be secure against. That is, what's the threat? If you are trying to be safe from the garbage man then a hammer on the circuit board is probably good enough. If you are trying to be safe from corporate espionage then putting the drive into a smelt and watching it melt away is my guess for the best method. If you are in the US and trying to be safe from the FBI then you are setting yourself up for "obstruction of justice" charges. Don't do that. A whole lot of don't do that, ever. More generally, state actors are impossible to stop unless you are a state actor or otherwise have some serious money. With enough money it's possible to recover data from platters that have been broken into tiny pieces. Is it worth it for someone to spend that money? Depends on the circumstance. Ok, but what about the case where _legally_ you are required to render the device "unreadable" (or similar)? Well, consult a lawyer or some other in-house expert to find out what the definition of "unreadable" actually is in your context. If you get brought up on charges, or even just sued by the government, it won't do to try and defend yourself with "but the people on the FreeBSD mailing list said...." -- Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ "A pig's gotta fly." - Crimson Pig From nobody Wed Nov 6 10:02:03 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xk12p50q5z5cNmj for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 10:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsdlouisville@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xk12n2bvWz4bDp for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 10:02:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsdlouisville@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=Hm9XYTZ5; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsdlouisville@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsdlouisville@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-83aacecc8efso20803439f.0 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 02:02:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730887327; x=1731492127; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:to:content-language:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=wcI6wHAwsov2u7oYbi9eHo9X0V/k6UyX4OrIbxdX7Ws=; b=Hm9XYTZ5sE4drVxC+0IdbU7Lg09JDHtJaGr5swaHLuCzymjkadnR3U6KCtWkog/z9f iVSJkuv8NmSCTQ8tP+TVtanD1SuWgjwLcW9HmAWPYLD691yJa1YDgRNT4SLr44+vHq1L vNj+rDzFg90SbKGMNGt2kbwQaKylZOlah/Mj0QQxENEUnLbgsZykoH3TNbDhJdyQ4DOb rRdwabWkXhryHS2+0JgQAmWcEDnQzIZrfNqvbVKs7qvZyPU5in58DeVSvY2yC78teNn8 RFdKH5E8sOC+09FM8/w5vLMlobEcd6/E+tCTsNTJAM2JWn1sZL+TfX7dHttC+CqDsCTQ km4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730887327; x=1731492127; h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:to:content-language:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wcI6wHAwsov2u7oYbi9eHo9X0V/k6UyX4OrIbxdX7Ws=; b=vJ9FJXi7TYF1GRovt2+T+e6UZaOvXbWGihRaNd0j1dKGBfsepzKvGVSMutWVvKCqOJ JrxyQUsIqk5/wij82RsYV5JARzZIJCyhmgQ76nVAjdw8pvkUD1l2JvkYAZeKGr3in8Ba K641uhFX6oKCd+c85qm32A+ubanQ+HB8Rmpyn85iJR1ueuNTrjcyM2g7FC1xog5ny6e9 0keYukhHzyaKL8P3HSGGYPAKa4ZimEDWoc5CTSPnyIXVMLE922AtJ6y9ymgaxnG6I+sm S+h1WrGQkEjzT4IqEgel8ml2xT/aAcVq8Cm9b7SJir6Uw1CM66D9qy2CoNgMzvzZ63Fe ZsFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw0gTD/ttCCu/623Xzx/MKhP+9BCOaK/8PxCprZ0PvSEl8lHj1N PmiiYpeFtfU11FmiNeMEew/KIQxpjNsHK9m3tCzb1XSOJ0DL1YtUVwOKcg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFd6+ogYMqJbTISMQpWo9ff/CVvFswcZAhSFbRnxQP3qxptZcqxYrPwToO5DxHodMSvf0QagA== X-Received: by 2002:a92:da11:0:b0:3a3:637f:1012 with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-3a6e2af130emr11417145ab.12.1730887327423; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 02:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2600:1015:a032:1a1b:f6bc:c13:12bf:e4e5? ([2600:1015:a032:1a1b:f6bc:c13:12bf:e4e5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e9e14a558f8ab-3a6bd2da409sm24468425ab.57.2024.11.06.02.02.04 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Nov 2024 02:02:05 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Friedrich X-Google-Original-From: Steven Friedrich Message-ID: <464b9f43-b756-4519-8966-844128ba2a33@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 05:02:03 -0500 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: GMKtek Nucbox G3 several problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.13 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.856]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xk12n2bvWz4bDp X-Spamd-Bar: -- This miniPC features an Intel Celeron N100 Processor. FreeBSD install claimed base.tgz failed it's checksum.  This was an often used PNY 32GB Turbo Attaché 3 USB 3.0 Flash Drive (dvd1.iso)  I rebuilt it from a disc1.iso, with same checksum error. I then tried the bootonly.iso, and was able to install and boot into freebsd. I am using amd64 ISOs. I have a post-install script that I run, and the system panic'ed when it discovered a PixArt mouse (Raspberry Pi mouse and keyboard). I would bet there is some flaw in Celeron processors that prevent checksums from working. I hope the Core team can find some example mini-PCs with the N100 Celeron and sort out the issues. From nobody Wed Nov 6 15:21:46 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xk88J1ptFz5cj1s for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 15:22:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xk88J040vz4JLW for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 15:22:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-71ec997ad06so5593753b3a.3 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 07:22:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tenebras-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1730906542; x=1731511342; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=C6z2atoIe2kfdY8GUgZUr/vUoNyJxhyRmr4kkhI7Zvw=; b=MTLkoCcoSvV3ZO6Lv4NkGR+694pqD7SFDKjsU/STeWPESspFwNH7FmgnQ0Aa6aXhKy ywO9uKdFTc5ZfR4njuBc/r/aczgXhDuRCSvWR8vxwoVmelw2CCgfRHCJKghqfaHidGQq pzxKvFZ0kXbBHLG7hCECWUBdL79/FFKxbIwo27Py4bdUC8/lcQnKXM9Ea8tfZ50zDJEw uVGbPgQC1uLbmUg7A0iVMkRoKLIis2fbalEiSJI67nRH595rv+yqFZ8F6cPzxLLwlelY 0S7fjsWykve6wQ1YyG8ToGkXgBya65L1E7+/dl6taMgAucHPr/a/XNdiYVYq7vV3yTqB 0oAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730906542; x=1731511342; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=C6z2atoIe2kfdY8GUgZUr/vUoNyJxhyRmr4kkhI7Zvw=; b=vgzf53iFxonHSaqEJcc92XC1YvLCDh16x55Jyr/qA3VKQWFCKseZrhq/Up7kPkM7xj LLhXCvMuxg58JnC7yM+C3G/0hMuOkcezSDskX0twIpwSmnpcobqcPG9nXKjf6gl4pstW 0FnuOhVQBER29Di1KaSffkoxjz4j0u+T2NWWofZlNc22UoKK9JZq2IfiwPcvXKTzDF1D OjFhMuyK4VcjCjlkAIkr6rDB/r9WcI5pXE+qtScSXCVJ9Lyy1G+1VK83Q82dit5KniUP n5Za2uKN89QdAEpqdKnbpdi9BWQpRlH8PsAOM8rs8JrAIY8h3jedf23t33GtgBGrUEOm PyhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyBJyC6hqeDvlpiMAuW/dGDZZo1FbEMlB6He5I9khZy/zE0g6l3 7B7QQ8tuBHxp4v8pfw+CqjSunoVMWiPK+K/0oOZqoIMWMqja7FXtb13iDNRlvsT/fbLV1pHlhP0 yzoShqTcWpIlk5tQ50bShK9tYoBb7aWbVhK2oW227knnOZ6q2TVM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFLGhvGJ6ZzyykCryCPxwvXKOsb6VuKKXPcCJZ85O6puEa4eoxph7qGoAVzxHFJVD0oT4H7RUFH4fdosEQBNLY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:999f:b0:1d9:c5ad:c995 with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-1d9eeb06e38mr40642093637.9.1730906542034; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 07:22:22 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5117.1728561469@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <2544410a-8a99-4b2e-a194-c8326a2e0ddd@heuristicsystems.com.au> <0bd5d79d35bb036fc73cd226edae1b969b22e3ee.camel@riseup.net> In-Reply-To: From: Michael Sierchio Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 10:21:46 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: How to zero a failing disk drive before disposal? To: "Kevin P. Neal" Cc: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009405ca0626401560" X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xk88J040vz4JLW X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --0000000000009405ca0626401560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "If you are in the US and trying to be safe from the FBI then you are setting yourself up for "obstruction of justice" charges. Don't do that. A whole lo= t of don't do that, ever." Even though there is a fine tradition of playing lawyer on the net, don't. You're wrong. 18 U.S. Code Chapter 73 - OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE does not apply. Federal spoliation of evidence is a procedural violation of the rules of evidence, and can be civil or criminal. This only applies if the destroyer of documents, etc. is aware of current or pending action, subpoena, etc. for the artifacts as evidence in a civil or criminal issue. If you can reasonably assume this is not the case, destroy. Crush, then burn, as the DOD recommends. =E2=80=93 M On Tue, Nov 5, 2024 at 11:17=E2=80=AFPM Kevin P. Neal = wrote: > A bit late to the game, I know, but... > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Fri, 2024-10-11 at 13:42 +1100, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: > > > I worked for a provider of services for the statutory care of childre= n > > > (eg removed from parents). [...] We bench-drilled the hard-disks > > > before sending them (out of our chain of custody) to a furnace. > > > > +1 > > > Criminals and secret services will think twice about whether it is wort= h > > subjecting the Lunchbucket family's hard drive to time-consuming and > > costly forensic treatment. > > This actually hints at the correct way of thinking about this problem. > > Anytime you think about security, you need to think about what you are > trying to be secure against. That is, what's the threat? > > > > If you are trying to be safe from the garbage man then a hammer on the > circuit board is probably good enough. > > If you are trying to be safe from corporate espionage then putting the > drive into a smelt and watching it melt away is my guess for the best > method. > > If you are in the US and trying to be safe from the FBI then you are > setting > yourself up for "obstruction of justice" charges. Don't do that. A whole > lot > of don't do that, ever. > > More generally, state actors are impossible to stop unless you are a stat= e > actor or otherwise have some serious money. > > With enough money it's possible to recover data from platters that have > been broken into tiny pieces. Is it worth it for someone to spend that > money? Depends on the circumstance. > > > Ok, but what about the case where _legally_ you are required to render th= e > device "unreadable" (or similar)? Well, consult a lawyer or some other > in-house expert to find out what the definition of "unreadable" actually > is in your context. If you get brought up on charges, or even just sued > by the government, it won't do to try and defend yourself with "but the > people on the FreeBSD mailing list said...." > > -- > Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ > > "A pig's gotta fly." - Crimson Pig > > --0000000000009405ca0626401560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"If you are in the US and trying to be safe from the = FBI then you are setting
yourself up for "obstruction of justice&qu= ot; charges. Don't do that. A whole lot
of don't do that, ever.&= quot;

Even though there is a fine tradition of playing lawyer on the= net, don't.=C2=A0 You're wrong.

18 U.S. Code Chapter 73 - = OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE does not apply.

Federal spoliation of = evidence is a procedural violation of the rules of evidence, and can be civ= il or criminal.=C2=A0 This only applies if the destroyer of documents, etc.= is aware of current or pending action, subpoena, etc. for the artifacts as= evidence in a civil or criminal issue.

If you can= reasonably assume this is not the case, destroy.=C2=A0 Crush, then burn, a= s the DOD recommends.

=E2=80=93 M

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Tue, Nov= 5, 2024 at 11:17=E2=80=AFPM Kevin P. Neal <kpn@neutralgood.org> wrote:
A bit late to the game, I know, but...

On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 09:12:01AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-10-11 at 13:42 +1100, Dewayne Geraghty wrote:
> > I worked for a provider of services for the statutory care of chi= ldren
> > (eg removed from parents). [...] We bench-drilled the hard-disks<= br> > > before sending them (out of our chain of custody) to a furnace. >
> +1

> Criminals and secret services will think twice about whether it is wor= th
> subjecting the Lunchbucket family's hard drive to time-consuming a= nd
> costly forensic treatment.

This actually hints at the correct way of thinking about this problem.

Anytime you think about security, you need to think about what you are
trying to be secure against. That is, what's the threat?



If you are trying to be safe from the garbage man then a hammer on the
circuit board is probably good enough.

If you are trying to be safe from corporate espionage then putting the
drive into a smelt and watching it melt away is my guess for the best
method.

If you are in the US and trying to be safe from the FBI then you are settin= g
yourself up for "obstruction of justice" charges. Don't do th= at. A whole lot
of don't do that, ever.

More generally, state actors are impossible to stop unless you are a state<= br> actor or otherwise have some serious money.

With enough money it's possible to recover data from platters that have=
been broken into tiny pieces. Is it worth it for someone to spend that
money? Depends on the circumstance.


Ok, but what about the case where _legally_ you are required to render the<= br> device "unreadable" (or similar)? Well, consult a lawyer or some = other
in-house expert to find out what the definition of "unreadable" a= ctually
is in your context. If you get brought up on charges, or even just sued
by the government, it won't do to try and defend yourself with "bu= t the
people on the FreeBSD mailing list said...."

--
Kevin P. Neal=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.pobox.com/~kp= n/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "= ;A pig's gotta fly." - Crimson Pig

--0000000000009405ca0626401560-- From nobody Wed Nov 6 16:01:35 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xk91h72cZz5ckTF for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 16:01:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from infoomatic@gmx.at) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "Telekom Security ServerID OV Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xk91g2XR2z4NpV for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 16:01:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from infoomatic@gmx.at) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.at header.s=s31663417 header.b=dcAYm+cJ; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of infoomatic@gmx.at designates 212.227.17.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=infoomatic@gmx.at; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=gmx.at DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.at; s=s31663417; t=1730908901; x=1731513701; i=infoomatic@gmx.at; bh=FnfNY+AeXtpFEY7Tr//MoYl9Ex8PpFrIAOijCgUiqcg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To: References:From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=dcAYm+cJNU2ivpHKXje2CJgn/Kl0hHxVJ2NjjZNnvRzHcx6/P8ztnhs7cEz6dOoK qr8abHXXvV+7LKRVPmTs7+HXr3Dn+Z3MbqNKc0yRA7ZunU+VP1OmTb4r00LDdTdnd VBqjhPSfi6mam3lIYiHdoIEtHF7EZP1331qkKaeLV59TBbttKeymybIJYUnfB2HUL Fw9rmC96uOqmgDbbBOj/HDkXAbaOdXtfvfhgNDfSKUfM/5vaGfBx/L6Mhc2VcIvSp 5lYIv/hy1bliCbXn0W63MqJ/Z5uYbgJ1a8kIYrpSoUpcJgscv4B5giQmgR8vOfxmN ekO9nzJA/5iqibQNtQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [10.0.1.209] ([178.114.185.211]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MLiCu-1tQNqm1MKO-00V5oy for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 17:01:41 +0100 Message-ID: <4ac03400-fda1-4349-95ad-dd4e6c1a9848@gmx.at> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 17:01:35 +0100 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: How to zero a failing disk drive before disposal? To: questions@freebsd.org References: <5117.1728561469@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <4592b3d058a5c2c2c5acf752706ade1e4e1ed7ca.camel@riseup.net> <7de83c36-7ec5-4cf3-8e8d-4cad98d610b8@app.fastmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: infoomatic In-Reply-To: <7de83c36-7ec5-4cf3-8e8d-4cad98d610b8@app.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GhylPJ10HDIc/UkwzZpkxuy/utUOhFbJz8iipBT3QfWVw00Anne mXThZMTkzfmjqnl1D9kBf1mr0gqxpAl0MLqHdqTGI1mnfUg9m3ppBNRsIjgHpJCtbaAW5bp IPqEIsvC1HxOCGQfwAFb/RLRH8kYLoJARuT6bsvKx3OJ+dx27lnTeTSDofLUwq/LnpPiz7Z 6wYnK+YxUC3Pmf6tq1RMA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:EeQubspbays=;uhPXheTQctAIyYm18bSFu1n3myu WmCR3yuL2xs7c2vs73UgPz/Nzm8Pzl7EvCMQkJkpoHMtyM8LDAyVMulJmL0R1ocADQEx4anHz 5DaGQiSRYBBUR8QzIZ2g1OScuh/iOiRU45//O0gDXqLjikOQEkWGIWBU3XdUCxvrYU4yX9MFv 6GDYNl9IkNSn8uscCVFDs1fIOJxV+kYk+wtHFxwaSiIYAxbmRbzohepODRBInRYQxwybXJRlF d1irp6M6oXLLTYop0W7h3WDpdQWY0nTEqxrBsM9HZiGlyOhoVXYi5XbL1f/v4jpy6EjFlIdt0 ksr4sppjrflFlu/Kd7WEuvEE5HrGkoJk7pBA+d7kKkG7PAtuOtL85impe974iFHSubqeEyQrB B8HHs9YaXjGNlFt/9X1CTQAZyoralnz0Ogz/WeAmPVHSkzJUHDaIJteksaNr+X5pCoAfGP4IQ wu1wImdsDzPZ462AcTttFXsrIEIQ9rRtIfUinVeWwR28NOXGPa46b5PyvOU5HtJR9M1cGtbFI 3JOZa1nc8/Rxl/OmXOpLyZGusIYAqPtiPTj9FKZ0GYSsRi03CBqDXWwx3mKiSd6klw4jiOycC NnVxXc7BflCXVoCANEx/cCaJv13TfsSMsQvTo3iIJ5Q1gmzcnxS5sz+z6qe+kitmCG4UE23oL j443DhGbrsqqwY+cB9kt6/fbueCyriYaD7bBvTIPSbHsnWBg8eD8fo0oWp3wf0pdkxvAZYrL2 vovAUlOlXPszZa11u/dytymAbaIPS8enVqs701DFHy6zmJkBzjOl21DCPhA7CP+hLO2TyMt57 d9D8XJC6xPzRVuCN1u+w5hbw== X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.47 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmx.at,quarantine]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.485]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mout.gmx.net]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmx.at:s=s31663417]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[212.227.17.21:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_NEUTRAL(0.00)[212.227.17.21:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmx.at:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmx.at]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmx.at] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xk91g2XR2z4NpV X-Spamd-Bar: -- On 10.10.24 20:34, robert@rrbrussell.com wrote: > > The easiest way to destroy information is forgetting the encryption key = but most people don=E2=80=99t use FDE. > Exactly. Highly recommend it to get rid of old defunct disks without worries. geli(8) is great. I do use it personally on all my disks and all my clients use it. From nobody Wed Nov 6 16:10:36 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xk9D15NvYz5cl5F for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 16:10:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf@quillandmouse.com) Received: from poodle.tulip.relay.mailchannels.net (poodle.tulip.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.218.249]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xk9D06C1Yz4SMs for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 16:10:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf@quillandmouse.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DADF7838BB; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 16:10:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a226.dreamhost.com (100-103-137-253.trex-nlb.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.103.137.253]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AE54D780E57; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 16:10:38 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1730909438; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NWvWlvLEAPhnKaVdbrPjt4yeo/l5MDGvcrr/rkxZIaWsbdJXCwQhUoDYixax3NCDq6OFh4 hH1YN6vJ09FUsQxK+swuOLJkqEft+hfr8wTVgJnNMLNTYcf2Lmd2M/C6wd6JaV38N4XWlA v0vob8rh8Uei/QcPIMtuyY92j4smjLeV4yHflyxvymBKCgCSsyuD5JsxQH6d9IzP+XhPHB KwCNd/BBU3NEarXUVRaaz1MR0uUXoklrSi15wAh6Ful4AOhf7aMdoZAajbab5j71EY2gDI IwJzx5HmUnvvQkxj8bzBZ3hJX/pi0kZOv+aO+Z8ZZdhGS1iBJjqekGUrSnhWeQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1730909438; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=1EJYf8n1mzpytiA6B7WLp+LBQ1FRcniFGEmH2keKk6w=; b=NGLM9VBA+yu9mYJLUAQKEYGHOITDCXqI42sNZk8QimzBrMs6O/LSkajIF0WoEp5m+9o/Pe /hZYI2SKuelSNgImRbauCMyHDHsnFcgNys2zhB9gEPfaBq5zkGASJiS0J20jjc7CvPm+zn 4SawWa/goEahcc6R1WGrsDYt/lNmWh37Y6IIgsOjCuNmID7CEdeBJpkXnEW4WYDdERaeVC vwMHL3oXWlF+E/2ZgCMcnYeEjZUekNZ0k65JcAj5ellDytwNMgAN+FFy6y0bdkYJmhP771 +Ulm59+YgXC7CH6HbYm4HjIrhO9VuwvxtnUUg+KMuFTV1M8B4lCaqZX3JbWzbg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-5fd7cbc7bc-c77jk; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=paulf@quillandmouse.com X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|paulf@quillandmouse.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Troubled-Abiding: 7299f3be6f58b27d_1730909438925_1823208100 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1730909438925:3687505995 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1730909438925 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a226.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.103.137.253 (trex/7.0.2); Wed, 06 Nov 2024 16:10:38 +0000 Received: from [192.168.4.30] (unknown [216.82.56.90]) (Authenticated sender: paulf@quillandmouse.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a226.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4Xk9Cy2LCHzFW; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 08:10:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quillandmouse.com; s=dreamhost; t=1730909438; bh=1EJYf8n1mzpytiA6B7WLp+LBQ1FRcniFGEmH2keKk6w=; h=Date:Subject:To:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=sT+obugRq3+3+cZLBabnAjPnvPuvNhVEbN7Fd5O0g02FUk0fyWNUwM/AWJP3NyV6U kOGDOg/2ppgbDJiljdQIn2k9nOA4rxdDOI/AcuZsiHSN3LVH1p24K/eoyqHy6lV/Ym VtP1OkCYC3aM42bmKjkUhnJqlxRhm6gVI0VlFNrMfGpAr+gGDwSdZnSJWu+R406JK+ bdFoOcfLluYaRXIzJT+g8XkBT/BtzECLwumkQv3OeKaEvMln+eZnUmmM+qFe5SHIMS Tjjsxe+QimGs3Huf3PPIkIhoCzhruGlta2cCaMSO5TOKnODdYos/NTwwFbjO0grUlq 8cUloE5z6kAhg== Message-ID: <5c84d43e-ae94-4659-882f-f37b7a8903ef@quillandmouse.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 11:10:36 -0500 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Name resolution in FreeBSD/Postfix To: Odhiambo Washington , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <30b4b3ca-1872-480a-93bb-f0c85908515f@quillandmouse.com> Content-Language: en-US From: "Paul M. Foster" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:63213, ipnet:23.83.216.0/22, country:CA] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Xk9D06C1Yz4SMs X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On 11/5/24 14:25, Odhiambo Washington wrote: > > Contents of /usr/local/etc/mail/mailer.conf: > > === > sendmail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > send-mail /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > mailq /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > newaliases /usr/local/sbin/sendmail > > > That should be the end of mailer.conf! > > > myhostname = banzai > mydomain = mars.lan > mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost > inet_interfaces = $myhostname, localhost > mynetworks_style = hosts > default_transport = error: outside mail is not deliverable > > > Postfix reads /usr/local/etc/postfix/main.conf and other files in that > directory. You should read more about Postfix. > I doubt it cares about mailer.conf. > Those config params up there should me in main.conf for them to make > sense to Postfix. > Yes, I've found that out. The text at the end of installing postfix only mentioned mailer.conf, so I assumed that was the main config. A little more research, and I found that postfix uses /usr/local/etc/postfix for its configs, not /usr/local/etc/mail. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster From nobody Wed Nov 6 17:02:35 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XkBN35VVbz1GkH7 for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 17:02:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fatty.merchandise677@aceecat.org) Received: from beesty.loosely.org (beesty.loosely.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:4c0::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XkBN30Hnfz4dcM for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 17:02:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fatty.merchandise677@aceecat.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fatty.merchandise677@aceecat.org designates 2600:3c01:e000:4c0::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=fatty.merchandise677@aceecat.org; dmarc=none Received: from [::1] (helo=beesty ident=itz) by beesty.loosely.org with esmtp (Exim 4.98-4-9cb179d48) (envelope-from ) id 1t8jQR-000000003kg-0tns for questions@freebsd.org; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 09:02:35 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 09:02:35 -0800 From: fatty.merchandise677@aceecat.org To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: dma: could not pick up queue file Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: questions@freebsd.org References: <1c49d4a22aefd22541a526d387912eb3@dalescott.net> <20241031225337.288E8A4F1F81@ary.qy> <382f9b53-0d5e-0fd3-5d9f-9d1a8954dd5b@iecc.com> <00907865-86c5-4fb4-bc3f-0c795de2f6fc@taugh.com> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.994]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.19)[0.191]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:63949, ipnet:2600:3c01::/32, country:SG]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[aceecat.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XkBN30Hnfz4dcM X-Spamd-Bar: - On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 09:35:35PM GMT, Daniel Tameling wrote: > Thanks. If something is running automatically that isn't started by > cron, periodic is always a good candidate. Wait, isn't periodic itself started by cron? So at best one can say "started directly by cron" if there is a difference at all. -- Ian From nobody Wed Nov 6 19:31:27 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XkFgr1jCBz1Gt5v for ; Wed, 06 Nov 2024 19:31:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hlyg2023@outlook.com) Received: from APC01-PSA-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-psaapc01olkn2097.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.52.97]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert Cloud Services CA-1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XkFgp4dSNz4t9L for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2024 19:31:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hlyg2023@outlook.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=g9c616nt; 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Wed, 6 Nov 2024 19:31:31 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2024 03:31:27 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: freebsd 13 fail to boot from 2nd partition To: questions@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: hlyg In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ClientProxiedBy: SI2PR02CA0049.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:4:196::7) To TYSPR02MB8382.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:405:c6::11) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <395b083a-e2a7-47ff-be77-0c27592e9b1b@outlook.com> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: TYSPR02MB8382:EE_|PUZPR02MB6188:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 7e59f31e-fb2b-4c16-3535-08dcfe999ce7 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;ARA:14566002|5072599009|6090799003|15080799006|19110799003|8060799006|461199028|3412199025|440099028; 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On 11/6/24 03:38, hlyg wrote: > 1st partition of usb disk is for data, freebsd 13 installer creates > 2nd partition with ufs and installs there, > > but it fails to boot, > > it is ignored, boots from hard disk > > From nobody Thu Nov 7 01:01:36 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XkP0x0Dntz5c5M1 for ; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 01:01:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from heuristicsystems.com.au (hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au [203.41.22.115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2560 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au", Issuer "Heuristic Systems Type 4 Host CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XkP0t0kqYz4Xdh for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2024 01:01:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=heuristicsystems.com.au header.s=hsa header.b="TyhU/qpL"; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au designates 203.41.22.115 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au; dmarc=none Received: from [10.0.5.4] (bigears.hs [10.0.5.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by heuristicsystems.com.au (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPA id 4A711afw005612 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2024 12:01:37 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=heuristicsystems.com.au; s=hsa; t=1730941297; x=1731546098; bh=KWOQFuI6pcr+e40S6tS3AFo73ess3YLZNxvlRZu28Nk=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To; b=TyhU/qpLhGCKlDDWzF9hEjSfFfnlZ6hhIsU82LukmnxNkGWg0IuwrmCZ7jf6QKX4c jYKtNi41JfoBusgJiuIXobMO0F7snZ0/HsTyFF2hpqLiSHriK4p+SvkG5K+26s9ZrX F9Qo2dG7VzkG5OdmUJizIGLOmztIYH2o9B7P0vJlKqTldUuzYl7vl X-Authentication-Warning: b3.hs: Host bigears.hs [10.0.5.4] claimed to be [10.0.5.4] Message-ID: <8a3381ec-d67c-4e51-85d9-e323ec3465fe@heuristicsystems.com.au> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2024 12:01:36 +1100 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-GB From: Dewayne Geraghty Subject: du measures in 4K blocks resulting in inaccuracies To: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.92 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.828]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[heuristicsystems.com.au:s=hsa]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[203.41.22.115:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1221, ipnet:203.40.0.0/13, country:AU]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XkP0t0kqYz4Xdh X-Spamd-Bar: ----- I'm trying to size a disk. Unfortunately /usr/bin/du is misleading. An example referencing two files, one 60 Bytes, other 908 Bytes: unset BLOCKSIZE echo ; ls -l /projectx/adm/README /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh echo "1 ---" ; ls -lh /projectx/adm/README echo "2 ---" ; du /projectx/adm/README echo "3 ---" ; du -ckh /projectx/adm/README /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh -rw-r----- 1 sysman wheel 60 Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/README #60B -rwx------ 1 sysman wheel 968 Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh 1 --- -rw-r----- 1 sysman wheel 60B Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/README 2 --- 8 /projectx/adm/README <<< 8 sectors 3 --- 4.0K /projectx/adm/README <<< min count is 4K, so sectorsize? 4.0K /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh 8.0K total <<< Expect at most 2K # diskinfo -v /dev/ada2p3 /dev/ada2p3 512 # sectorsize Perhaps my understanding is wrong, so to authority "man du" -k Display block counts in 1024-byte (1 kiB) blocks. (incorrect) -h "Human-readable" output. Use unit suffixes: Byte, Kilobyte, Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terabyte and Petabyte based on powers of 1024. (? 4K) but even --si gives 4.1k /projectx/adm/README # <<< 4.1K??! 4.1k /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh What am I missing? Should the doc reflect the minimum reporting size is 4K? From nobody Thu Nov 7 01:24:36 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XkPWG4Qsdz5c7PV for ; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 01:24:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XkPWG1VsSz4cw0; Thu, 7 Nov 2024 01:24:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1730942682; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=iW9X5zEzVqZ+LIiVzxXhUpr0NRe5TgpQNteJYDehS7o=; b=Fkd5IcGs2RF52M/NsQmmhrLnmmo3DNU3QR70juKcUXu88sSq9ATpgkD1qqAMJ2cbipi734 Tehef6w6nXbgJsgN9N1o8LBWJ7U8eNYP4II6BIFBDcYtBtJfNB82r/aGZ3NE3gSzM5/tBu LTSln7SdbxaLFz/p/g8k8sWTfyXMDQy1r8vb9mzCbiIxr3LPNnm0p56fwCd85zIwbXULD8 tpqiRQaNegIw2p6iwhcscy74fdbH+TISQbcCO+Z213ozJnvZQXgEhNY/i1FqAuls15XmPR BTwGJeoVEhHbg1fdLbjn1Mt7Ei9uTpTC2BRcSUuwQOtPSaamHw2sxB7Bs27yOA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1730942682; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=iW9X5zEzVqZ+LIiVzxXhUpr0NRe5TgpQNteJYDehS7o=; b=sasbUB6Li+1oy5uGnP/i4btfP8lkp0JOjUVy+VrRfgl3N9qTL+5qTyIZPg3qFZDUNSq7cY 57/I68g1zNAKzux4BUtdBVOAekA7gcshh3hGZnrsoRV7ArweH5L+bDQFA1wpsSNksQfWmy zzz2GuU02byIA2zKflv1NzyNW1wZRHJLmWQEfwIpAcEjKA1eJIc26bVNP7lp3ZrzIWVLMF SLZcCZGN5JGfQ+3r1aXLiFjyDNYpcq0gm8o7zBPFXHEZjOy1Wk2zGMlXqCptw4GSl3ER62 JO1ivaWNhy6sOmAaxHP6aDWKLmrVQKR1MySIG4Zma8H977ZEIhLwHuKJ16d5+A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1730942682; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=t216ghfJzroxnztpdRo+uXRWlz4TAVnnX3Oh5NOIt3emdTbBdG+PpDJI77cN5p31mFoLk6 /HhXbBu/diMOJ3Y9AtjebYKJ85k7JyCN0SOzKUGkMDocDPfg2UzIQH6tjWLcK9Iws/D60l n1HY6DMptMAbZ9C8aMLXQgmxLfGOUZTblWAQDAjDqEOJBF+9lX+gOsc9JcTg7n/wX7n77A t5jV/TDYwwTSVWvRJZnEj7MKgfb3VUdPQBrkXVpsqJgXPN9VbJ+zD9D/i0CGNAUb4W6Nw/ TRGQa/Jogo9urNep/8/KL7En+SrsTxE5pNXhmdlV844lvXwSVlGLvSkw3FRtGA== Received: from hydra.lemis.com (121-200-11-253.79c80b.mel.nbn.aussiebb.net [121.200.11.253]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: grog/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4XkPWD5MXRz16tt; Thu, 7 Nov 2024 01:24:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@freebsd.org) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2024 12:24:36 +1100 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Dewayne Geraghty Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: du measures in 4K blocks resulting in inaccuracies Message-ID: References: <8a3381ec-d67c-4e51-85d9-e323ec3465fe@heuristicsystems.com.au> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="S3dFxt7PYhzSnlOw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8a3381ec-d67c-4e51-85d9-e323ec3465fe@heuristicsystems.com.au> Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5309-0418 Mobile: +61-490-494-038. Use only as instructed. WWW-Home-Page: https://www.FreeBSD X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 --S3dFxt7PYhzSnlOw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, 7 November 2024 at 12:01:36 +1100, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: > I'm trying to size a disk. Unfortunately /usr/bin/du is misleading. An > example referencing two files, one 60 Bytes, other 908 Bytes: > > unset BLOCKSIZE > echo ; ls -l /projectx/adm/README /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh > echo "1 ---" ; ls -lh /projectx/adm/README > echo "2 ---" ; du /projectx/adm/README > echo "3 ---" ; du -ckh /projectx/adm/README /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh > > -rw-r----- 1 sysman wheel 60 Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/README #60B > -rwx------ 1 sysman wheel 968 Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh > 1 --- > -rw-r----- 1 sysman wheel 60B Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/README > 2 --- > 8 /projectx/adm/README <<< 8 sectors > 3 --- > 4.0K /projectx/adm/README <<< min count is 4K, so sectorsize? > 4.0K /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh > 8.0K total <<< Expect at most 2K > > # diskinfo -v /dev/ada2p3 > /dev/ada2p3 > 512 # sectorsize > > > Perhaps my understanding is wrong, so to authority "man du" > -k Display block counts in 1024-byte (1 kiB) blocks. (incorrect) What is incorrect about that? > -h "Human-readable" output. Use unit suffixes: Byte, Kilobyte, > Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terabyte and Petabyte based on powers of > 1024. (? 4K) > > 4.1k /projectx/adm/README # <<< 4.1K??! > 4.1k /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh > > What am I missing? Should the doc reflect the minimum reporting size is 4K? No, du is reporting correctly. From the man page: The du utility displays the file system block usage for each file argument It doesn't describe the size of the files in those blocks. That's particularly the case for files with holes in them, where it can show "sizes" that are much less than the file size. You don't say what file system you're using, but it looks like UFS. By default, a UFS 2 file system has 32 kB blocks and 4 kB fragments. Files less than 4 kB in size allocate one fragment, and that's what you're seeing. The real question is: what are you trying to do? "Size a disk" suggests that you really do want to know how much storage is being used. In this case, du is your friend. Your 60 byte file really does use 4 kB on disk. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Sent from my desktop computer. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php --S3dFxt7PYhzSnlOw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQSaG4ICvM64RvkvCawi5vKQUHpCIwUCZywW1AAKCRAi5vKQUHpC IxF2AKCeBayt9SPXG/B9q/3wokYR9NsTXgCfVSWVlAtihGnM+kVg2J/B9HxAD6k= =pJ17 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --S3dFxt7PYhzSnlOw-- From nobody Thu Nov 7 04:46:09 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XkV0S5lPQz5cLX9 for ; Thu, 07 Nov 2024 04:46:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from heuristicsystems.com.au (hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au [203.41.22.115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2560 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au", Issuer "Heuristic Systems Type 4 Host CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XkV0P43fkz51vr for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2024 04:46:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=heuristicsystems.com.au header.s=hsa header.b=EL9+vpYH; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au designates 203.41.22.115 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au; dmarc=none Received: from [10.0.5.4] (bigears.hs [10.0.5.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by heuristicsystems.com.au (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPA id 4A74k9RW029534 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2024 15:46:11 +1100 (AEDT) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=heuristicsystems.com.au; s=hsa; t=1730954771; x=1731559572; bh=/62qmOXNEplz+BfHHMs3GiO2eMR+JDczJuaP5vGrcBA=; h=Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From; b=EL9+vpYH00vc4MBc0M0uxQ0IK6Lpbpx+aYnnPZ17Oo7dyptINJCC9vKRseG6igq8A i3Tw3Ax6gV5l1p5oIL1dy5GapzPJcr2a2iF47/ttQtgqPDZLsSxKVyUWIVfqpZxFsZ dNBOViAaQq2J1yMyJNO8FZJoXgPtaQnndfx6ogv07AM8Z3SMXmtrh X-Authentication-Warning: b3.hs: Host bigears.hs [10.0.5.4] claimed to be [10.0.5.4] Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2024 15:46:09 +1100 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: du measures in 4K blocks resulting in inaccuracies To: questions@freebsd.org References: <8a3381ec-d67c-4e51-85d9-e323ec3465fe@heuristicsystems.com.au> Content-Language: en-GB From: Dewayne Geraghty In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.09 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_MED(-2.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[heuristicsystems.com.au:s=hsa]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[203.41.22.115:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1221, ipnet:203.40.0.0/13, country:AU]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XkV0P43fkz51vr X-Spamd-Bar: ------ On 7/11/2024 12:24 pm, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Thursday, 7 November 2024 at 12:01:36 +1100, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: >> I'm trying to size a disk. Unfortunately /usr/bin/du is misleading. An >> example referencing two files, one 60 Bytes, other 908 Bytes: >> >> unset BLOCKSIZE >> echo ; ls -l /projectx/adm/README /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh >> echo "1 ---" ; ls -lh /projectx/adm/README >> echo "2 ---" ; du /projectx/adm/README >> echo "3 ---" ; du -ckh /projectx/adm/README /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh >> >> -rw-r----- 1 sysman wheel 60 Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/README #60B >> -rwx------ 1 sysman wheel 968 Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh >> 1 --- >> -rw-r----- 1 sysman wheel 60B Jul 28 2023 /projectx/adm/README >> 2 --- >> 8 /projectx/adm/README <<< 8 sectors >> 3 --- >> 4.0K /projectx/adm/README <<< min count is 4K, so sectorsize? >> 4.0K /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh >> 8.0K total <<< Expect at most 2K >> >> # diskinfo -v /dev/ada2p3 >> /dev/ada2p3 >> 512 # sectorsize >> >> >> Perhaps my understanding is wrong, so to authority "man du" >> -k Display block counts in 1024-byte (1 kiB) blocks. (incorrect) > > What is incorrect about that? Hmm. Upon reflection I can see how I missed it. I didn't factor in that the displayed size is actually per fragment size that newfs puts on the device, for files less than the fragment size. So for example, the disk I used has a sector size of 512 and a block/fragment of 32k/4k. So the minimum reported size is 4.0K When I checked a memory disk that I use that has very many small files - newfs'ed with -b 8k -f 1k. du reported the smallest file as 1 /m/audit/current Hence my misunderstanding. > >> -h "Human-readable" output. Use unit suffixes: Byte, Kilobyte, >> Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terabyte and Petabyte based on powers of >> 1024. (? 4K) >> >> 4.1k /projectx/adm/README # <<< 4.1K??! >> 4.1k /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh >> >> What am I missing? Should the doc reflect the minimum reporting size is 4K? > > No, du is reporting correctly. From the man page: But the actual file is 60B, 4.0K would be expected not 4.1K > > The du utility displays the file system block usage for each file > argument > Yes. I didn't take that bit in. Though for small files I think its the fragment size. Please refer below for large file example. > It doesn't describe the size of the files in those blocks. That's > particularly the case for files with holes in them, where it can show > "sizes" that are much less than the file size. > > You don't say what file system you're using, but it looks like UFS. > By default, a UFS 2 file system has 32 kB blocks and 4 kB fragments. > Files less than 4 kB in size allocate one fragment, and that's what > you're seeing. > > The real question is: what are you trying to do? "Size a disk" > suggests that you really do want to know how much storage is being > used. In this case, du is your friend. Your 60 byte file really does > use 4 kB on disk. > Thank-you you've answered the question - the minimum size reported by du is the fragment size of the device, for each file less than frag size. Yes, I really did want to make a sizing estimate based on fragments used. I hadn't realised that du was being helpful. :) I was mislead by references to 1K &/or block sizes. Yes, its ufs2, apologies for being tardy in my description (zfs doesn't provide multi-labels per my mac_biba need, so its out-of-mind). ;) Large files are a bit confusing: The file ./src-ports-migration.tar.xz is 11787028, but du reports as 11552 while 11787028 / 1024 = 11510. I think I need to read the code to understand, perhaps the inode occupies 42? Thank-you for providing some clues. :) Kind regards, Dewayne. From nobody Fri Nov 8 01:08:45 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Xl16X2wCPz5cyW2 for ; Fri, 08 Nov 2024 01:08:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Xl16X0kNMz4WvS; Fri, 8 Nov 2024 01:08:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1731028132; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=OfgpP9fvDTmIi2IqA9PDqSKgq0aM2XnAQqWj2j1J4Uc=; b=uMWpEUSgYTPo8o+1WrTqxjNAunTLnSyQ7A24eOAijrniVnoWSjbpA1Y6ySbl+5IdsML7gU RJWrNwyH5j+leirGuU95ks8pqv/NJL3Zg15V6oPAHBqO/AJ0Z7npcGHgxpb8IuiyhI/7DU 2Eu/VEWayYPEAE4ilIq4vAYj4ZyqWtOwZ0eMngZltw7vX72kuDEn0sMyjn/kFjk0IRt1AW pyJqVpbxvrj6IgW4iyMhEafPauzBiyr43QSKW+EcPHTpcj6kS6mwS1Vmmqhj1OGM/rFC6f 15f1veuO1y/yOAjY/nS5RHcfjmDFVCSMp6w62MVXCfXiEErs7Fz+F3/GVojunA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1731028132; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=OfgpP9fvDTmIi2IqA9PDqSKgq0aM2XnAQqWj2j1J4Uc=; b=k9YW6pj4zEMR0y+bBJiuc5KCaSvOqn2yICS91j0LaPXXR8ibNCKj4zIO46lrp8+2J7PtCZ V5hgzNCLh24mRNHxz849ma5Gk9sI86N8pi7RsoQgvpv0T6eAVI+9bFhuZicQlcDOXMe7aO xKYH8OdJgGbSl7/SnkbuUzsbkQmd1XRC6rY3DiIvU5oC/cv1UrJpBTJZ5Js4/Ec7gERUgD AEaVGpT0ttpzwnqJvI+OfDjlXvEUD8J2ilqfCOjmwJEChNX/eUjRh8Rs++koj+Q/UrVQj2 Gx75UXLIBO0jjvBGEwqUPJxn9o+F1AMCj/hC4x2ympfBor83AqpVEOmOezTOMg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1731028132; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=A1zBSRdBvYsVuz5AJIxlivsBAtMXvTx+lzi8GPi2luIET0oH3GXAg9wQG6SvV7ZUzvW0Qv zS9gI53PkV6NyGFBtgiWACHXAgGHPJ0Ikayuy1BsXFpDmjQYziTH7VnFCwb7HxhXgvP4t9 wP7mNmVWPj85YReRj8kWVWS942TqTFDUxfMqdlE4kreGBRln/kX+F51f6FZqwO0oPbcgan N6RWci5yYehiYzrHmAuZ8xRSBCrHCEi4p7KXKHtCU0At2GBTdEZT6XSe9dIBWKDRvND2Kd bLKc9ssQHBp6EpdPsJ1f5RtFBLjjhfmlMZ8kNgRweu86kyNHWveZnekllDgcOA== Received: from hydra.lemis.com (121-200-11-253.79c80b.mel.nbn.aussiebb.net [121.200.11.253]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: grog/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Xl16V6PplzMVc; Fri, 8 Nov 2024 01:08:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grog@freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2024 12:08:45 +1100 From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey To: Dewayne Geraghty Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: du measures in 4K blocks resulting in inaccuracies Message-ID: References: <8a3381ec-d67c-4e51-85d9-e323ec3465fe@heuristicsystems.com.au> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TD+sozSl5JphGD4d" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-3-5309-0418 Mobile: +61-490-494-038. Use only as instructed. WWW-Home-Page: https://www.FreeBSD X-PGP-Fingerprint: 9A1B 8202 BCCE B846 F92F 09AC 22E6 F290 507A 4223 --TD+sozSl5JphGD4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, 7 November 2024 at 15:46:09 +1100, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: > On 7/11/2024 12:24 pm, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> On Thursday, 7 November 2024 at 12:01:36 +1100, Dewayne Geraghty wrote: >>> What am I missing? Should the doc reflect the minimum reporting size is 4K? >> >> No, du is reporting correctly. From the man page: ... Oh. Yes, I missed the 4.1k instead of 4.0K, along with this in the original message: > but even --si gives > 4.1k /projectx/adm/README # <<< 4.1K??! > 4.1k /projectx/adm/gen_pw.sh "Even" --si. I had never heard of it. It doesn't look BSD-like at all, and I see it was added in August 2017. Maybe it's a Linuxism. In any case, the man page is your friend there too: --si "Human-readable" output. Use unit suffixes: Byte, Kilobyte, Megabyte, Gigabyte, Terabyte and Petabyte based on powers of 1000. And that works as described: === grog@hydra (/dev/pts/11) /var/tmp 558 -> echo foo > bar === grog@hydra (/dev/pts/11) /var/tmp 559 -> ls -l bar -rw-r--r-- 1 grog wheel 4 8 Nov 10:34 bar === grog@hydra (/dev/pts/11) /var/tmp 560 -> du -sk bar 4 bar === grog@hydra (/dev/pts/11) /var/tmp 561 -> du --s bar 4.1k bar Note the distinction between k (1000 bytes) and K (1024 bytes). > Large files are a bit confusing: > The file ./src-ports-migration.tar.xz is 11787028, but > du reports as 11552 while > 11787028 / 1024 = 11510. > > I think I need to read the code to understand, perhaps the inode > occupies 42? Interesting. No, the inode is not counted in the du output (and it's 512 bytes long). But it seems that the indirect blocks are, and I can't find that documented anywhere. Consider: === grog@hydra (/dev/pts/35) /var/tmp 3 -> dd if=/dev/zero of=baz bs=384k count=1; ls -l baz; du -sk baz 393216 bytes transferred in 0.000208 secs (1893921588 bytes/sec) -rw-r--r-- 1 grog wheel 393216 8 Nov 11:59 baz 384 baz === grog@hydra (/dev/pts/35) /var/tmp 4 -> dd if=/dev/zero of=baz bs=385k count=1; ls -l baz; du -sk baz 394240 bytes transferred in 0.000375 secs (1052038886 bytes/sec) -rw-r--r-- 1 grog wheel 394240 8 Nov 11:59 baz 448 baz The first 12 block pointers (to data blocks of 32 kB each) are in the inode. Beyond that they're in indirect blocks. So a 385 kB file has 13 data blocks (416 kB) and one indirect block (32 kB). This continues for all larger files, though at some point second and third level indirect blocks are assigned, giving steps of 64 or 96 kB. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll try to find a way to document it. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Sent from my desktop computer. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php --TD+sozSl5JphGD4d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQSaG4ICvM64RvkvCawi5vKQUHpCIwUCZy1knQAKCRAi5vKQUHpC I5AYAJ9mCFV9ZSxk5Q6JRQ9Udgb5T7FxHACfWIFwme4xASDyFIvGZWAEFKbkqGw= =oY0/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --TD+sozSl5JphGD4d-- From nobody Sat Nov 9 09:34:26 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XlrHd3tPqz5bsBc for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2024 09:34:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peo@nethead.se) Received: from ns1.nethead.se (ns1.nethead.se [5.150.237.139]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (P-384) client-digest SHA384) (Client CN "ns1.nethead.se", Issuer "E6" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XlrHc0LgSz4b2w for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2024 09:34:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peo@nethead.se) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=nethead.se header.s=NETHEADSE header.b=DPrYwtev; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of peo@nethead.se designates 5.150.237.139 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=peo@nethead.se; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=nethead.se X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at Nethead AB DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nethead.se; s=NETHEADSE; t=1731144868; bh=j36mqiv3jM3WXE1VnJ0G7ceMWa8j13IbykkCHdyxNTw=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=DPrYwtevR9q97eM6gAqqjQagX6htbziFvFQEAJ2tKQMxiy8Yj7kCyaOaTdF7hYqqZ ErIubxQnuIRsv4slpeJ/rDz2K+2A/lrb0EahLPgfn4+0ObvS4rej1WDZ7eM9YgxNXA Z/ZdoRCSJ7LoFJ4L+ysFqrtwQE2D4HRuFGp/G3rQ= Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2024 10:34:26 +0100 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Recover serial console after upgrade Content-Language: en-US To: questions@freebsd.org References: <1a2a9184-51de-44c4-af7e-07c9da7b12dd@nethead.se> <20241101175138735359595@bob.proulx.com> From: Per olof Ljungmark In-Reply-To: <20241101175138735359595@bob.proulx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[nethead.se,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[nethead.se:s=NETHEADSE]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:5.150.237.139]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8473, ipnet:5.150.192.0/18, country:SE]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[nethead.se:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XlrHc0LgSz4b2w X-Spamd-Bar: --- On 2024-11-02 01:01, Bob Proulx wrote: > Per olof Ljungmark wrote: >> I am in the process of upgrading an old server, a Proliant DL360 G7. The >> virtual serial port at uart1 worked with 13.2, but after 13.4 it only works >> until some point in the boot process, then its gone. > > Do you have Boot Environments? If so then you could boot the > previously working one and then compare between the two and get the > newer one working. [...] For the record, changing hint.uart.1.at="acpi" hint.uart.1.port="0x2F8" to hint.uart.1.at="isa" hint.uart.1.irq="3" hint.uart.1.port="0x2F8" made the console work for the whole boot process, I guess some more magic is needed to make it work with acpi and the iLO Proliant G8/9. Per From nobody Sat Nov 9 23:03:34 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmBFL3QWQz5bnGP for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2024 23:03:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from notjatinpant@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmBFK61lZz4wMs for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2024 23:03:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from notjatinpant@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=Glkdao0+; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of notjatinpant@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::531 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=notjatinpant@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5c957d8bce2so2082661a12.2 for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2024 15:03:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1731193428; x=1731798228; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sFLuN56xe4qBTD1qV49ZWysdOq2BGDndK8a0EBusvpQ=; b=Glkdao0+kDNAq7YtYbhaV+ty9yMKlqNkccqHB2UrYLnUFAvhpdZpHK7BYohUCvHAA+ u+zEjONL6bEBZ5/EfRtAWicvrqqujK6Ciu/bxK/+oqWc4+vUGd74FlMEMYW/FHl36POm 8R06JGX3ZgB8F2y1SFaAU0mn3FkLhYPuK+T+nW3zt3qJMdnekRxpyMILLKnyv57dkqMy 1tWpYYOmPztnJi4KoT/pLYBORe0Kk6oApTXnkRLloWOUOzRR2vp/WafWOl7bnkLcr2rr xhXblfcehCyTHg6gKCyzBLHBi++yT3yxXw1FgMEq37pShxfPM0mnY9Ju5abYrqk+Moyq JEeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1731193428; x=1731798228; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sFLuN56xe4qBTD1qV49ZWysdOq2BGDndK8a0EBusvpQ=; b=sB5bStarflj/1UW/zQkMXmq6y6JNNAcFHLYw+ExgDBa8kl+6TvBPOJU5yWXxg2WW3M FviZtWl40LMI28biT0TdcKbVo3mEmYm7xb+zwRsdq7KJ2y7yYYQS7JU63HFZzIYN4NaX RvZ8ZrIYo2LaHKno+rmVPPBYkvdk5J56eQSMEVA3pAPLfFltfEtA3zF1NClw2rjHVuAG nCnVfaBNztv7UCvH2tP4OV812qtMSQBoO9lFmMTfEgEmpL5AWdYy4Hg5JkJlG4RabwVJ AZb0rGPYd2A1xJZguqAK8OeuGq3l+jvjOLpICliOthT8DiCcEXsS1LYV+2YGKEj6sykj 22og== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxNkb0uACsh/GyPU899DYIUu/8nDHUGSRw+FnS2MGlXNdrjw0vl ho4iuY4ahy7Yk2vef8hDWqU3LhgkFjhHRyBBMYOFE4Jnflx5NwY+wL19tKwcOlaEZADaT3mj6qC 5MdW8FUwuK08GLhVAUFRUVfQAKBqQ2sql X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHu6st7cg21JbcVAjYQ0FNIsnKWC3h5uQkC27eHjoe5bTdyTHIVII1BplZAQkMfoSQqnWw1YlhCzkoZkucs5AE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:5241:b0:5c9:4b8c:b92e with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5cf0a43f0b7mr9937571a12.26.1731193428292; Sat, 09 Nov 2024 15:03:48 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jatin Pant Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 04:33:34 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Feeling happy to join the community. To: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054b906062682e16b" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::531:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmBFK61lZz4wMs X-Spamd-Bar: --- --00000000000054b906062682e16b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" From: Jatin Pant Date: Sat, 9 Nov, 2024, 6:39 pm Subject: Feeling happy to join the community. To: Hi, community members I just wanted to say hi and feel pleasure in joining the community and diving into a continuous learning experience. For starters I have some questions regarding how freeBSD holds in today's world. How are we holding today where AI is coming forward at a non-ignorable pace? How do we use AI? Also what should I keep in mind while I am learning? What does the future holds? Thankful and happy to connect --00000000000054b906062682e16b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: Jatin Pant <notjatinpant@= gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov, 2024, 6:39 pm
Subject: Fee= ling happy to join the community.
To: <questions@freebsd.org&= gt;


Hi, community members
I just wanted to say hi and feel pleasure in joining the community and d= iving into a continuous learning experience.

For starters I have some questions regarding how freeB= SD holds in today's world. How are we holding today where AI is coming = forward at a non-ignorable pace? How do we use AI? Also what should I keep = in mind while I am learning? What does the future holds?

Thankful and happy to connect
--00000000000054b906062682e16b-- From nobody Sat Nov 9 23:54:05 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmCMP0KFBz5brhd for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2024 23:54:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vogelke@pobox.com) Received: from fout-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.146]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmCMM5Vvvz51H6 for ; Sat, 9 Nov 2024 23:54:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vogelke@pobox.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=pobox.com header.s=fm2 header.b="a ZO7CsH"; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=E+7Z+DL5; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vogelke@pobox.com designates 103.168.172.146 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vogelke@pobox.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=pobox.com Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.phl.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEFD61380233; Sat, 9 Nov 2024 18:54:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-frontend-01 ([10.202.2.160]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 09 Nov 2024 18:54:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=cc :content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1731196446; x= 1731282846; bh=eZt0bJNtZBsRgabVa50dO4TnSrQXBG8j3HefPIP43yQ=; b=a ZO7CsHLwSwsy3ePYU4XDK/NfZdCq9Hfd6a/VodYMSb/YCzSaV4rFgLIdpUUOvLrE Sa8TVyVZ25mNgORbHPsScAfb8VXQ0F+HP63S+lrDzDvyAxnb7tTkeGaHiljnAJs5 Kf9O4awHpglRh9DswnS0ouizZa/sb8IkkdSKWgDWL/E/0Yro3lKROnQV3/3gKSFo nk0yQ7RKuXQ5deUqNP0NDEiz7zod/ie4wMmNZCQ3APv5V0Qw6ncJXcr4+FRSpFNc RuHCtyqc+5Qb6h3LHJfAxjI/yU5+nUcvlN98HsU88Pgsnz4G2o+Ul9s6+/7sbPyB 21Pd1ndV2tRQ3dcRGUoqQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm3; t=1731196446; x=1731282846; bh=eZt0bJNtZBsRgabVa50dO4TnSrQX BG8j3HefPIP43yQ=; b=E+7Z+DL5GeHjVNC9xHEea1cjQtawiIzAXV41BgwuJrmZ rTBfp3dsdnIfdtjb4QvBPLtfAaSocRqLclpJT6U9WPifGLxaIySXccZLZF0jajux vjoKQyFdHaKBSODcVoKPqnm9yZ0IqnTPRipCstVorisPzEkIJyO4tqRgPdFBDoHu KVKWrUQVhV88AnmMl5WdRtqf2HojckYex8N+niqR1MUjiLFEw4LUHZkVbfmYP0hE JK3oYJNCtrWlJ9EzkiR+iGX8KoFnDq1TuUEyEQRnUMD8teSrHmq04e9qgmTN+uUS UoKfn4jOia8mL+35AbIruaDYcZJSYHj7Vf5AOUMYmw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefuddrtdelgdduhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpuffr tefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffukf hrfhggtggujgesthdtredttddtvdenucfhrhhomhepmfgrrhhlucggohhgvghluceovhho ghgvlhhkvgesphhosghogidrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepffduledvkefgte dtudettefgiedvvdehjeejhfdtueffteehfeeigfelteeuffehnecuffhomhgrihhnpehu thhmrdgvughunecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homhepvhhoghgvlhhkvgesphhosghogidrtghomhdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepvddpmhho uggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepqhhuvghsthhiohhnshesfhhrvggvsghsug drohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehvohhgvghlkhgvodhhvggruggvrhesphhosghogidrtgho mh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i89e94709:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 9 Nov 2024 18:54:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2024 18:54:05 -0500 From: Karl Vogel To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Feeling happy to join the community. Message-ID: Reply-To: vogelke@pobox.com References: List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Fingerprint: B9B0 D8CF 0413 515D BED4 B507 C123 B01E C8AE 08E9 X-PGP-URL: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.10 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[pobox.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[pobox.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[pobox.com:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.146:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[pobox.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209242, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:US]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[vogelke@pobox.com] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmCMM5Vvvz51H6 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- On Sat 09 Nov 2024 at 18:04:04 (-0500), Jatin Pant wrote: > I just wanted to say hi and feel pleasure in joining the community and > diving into a continuous learning experience. FreeBSD is interesting and quite useful. I remember installing it on a Dell desktop with three 250-Gb drives (considered huge at the time) and serving files via Samba to several *hundred* simultaneous users. Worked like a charm. > For starters I have some questions regarding how freeBSD holds in > today's world. How are we holding today where AI is coming forward at > a non-ignorable pace? How do we use AI? Have a look at https://iep.utm.edu/chinese-room-argument/ if you're worried about AI. ChatGPT made it easier for kids to write papers and "devs" to write crappy stackoverflow answers with *zero* thought or effort. > Also what should I keep in mind while I am learning? If you have a good backup and your machine isn't actually on fire, you can recover. Don't be scared to experiment. -- Karl Vogel I don't speak for anyone but myself Please whitelist *.playboy.com because one of the law firm partners who signs the paychecks "likes to read the articles". --Reddit "unusual IT support tickets", 5 Nov 2024 From nobody Sun Nov 10 05:47:55 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmMCk4Hkyz5cHWT for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 05:48:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx0.riseup.net (mx0.riseup.net [198.252.153.6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx0.riseup.net", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmMCj4R91z4JZ2 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 05:48:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=IWuQWdXq; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.6 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net Received: from fews01-sea.riseup.net (fews01-sea-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.109]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx0.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmMCg30rRz9tx7 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 05:47:59 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1731217679; bh=sTmHroT7x2EALqr8F+i2g12KnsT9XSru3M04DYFg31c=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=IWuQWdXq9hixD0j+BPE4h9y0Nx1YF8FkI6kYKM9qjqVbMi/kuSFETWt2W45pGGT53 zE1836qoOOZhxTlCS0Aj4dAYQ2i1n4/8qLtPgX5xufqiH9bhtwo/cu3vlbUX8gLGja xMToIbx871upk3R/k5nWp9FrF9Q1mA48rJAlNWs0= X-Riseup-User-ID: A8A4447F00289ACAF3802D4ECE9EB0B9D81F24B1F5F4C6041AE4FC277FF7FBC9 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews01-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4XmMCf6bFbzJrsL for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 05:47:58 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <407167f0f9efc14087d74c9dc388ad7e2aa9350a.camel@riseup.net> Subject: Re: Feeling happy to join the community. From: Ralf Mardorf To: questions@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 06:47:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.10 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mx0.riseup.net]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.6:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmMCj4R91z4JZ2 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- On Sat, 2024-11-09 at 18:54 -0500, Karl Vogel wrote: > ChatGPT made it easier for kids to write papers and "devs" to write > crappy stackoverflow answers with *zero* thought or effort. Hi, at the end of the 80s, beginning of the 90s, I got involved with AI. At that time, computers were still largely unsuitable for the kind of applications that exist today, but you could already see where it was going, because AI was probably already being used to murder people, at least that's what I assume from the TV show called =E2=80=9CGulf War=E2=80= =9D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War#/media/File:Gulf_war_target_cam.jpg At that time, Joseph Weizenbaum became one of my role models. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Weizenbaum I gave up on AI because I didn't have the money for suitable computers, not because I'm a critic of the stupid use of AI. https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/Hedonismbot Nowadays I don't bother with it because I'm too old and want to devote my time to creating art. I think something like ChatGPT sucks, I don't know what's available in this area on FreeBSD or Linux, but AI can also be used sensibly. I appreciate for example that image processing with the help of AI can crop objects or creatures on photos (at least this is available as software that runs on proprietary operating systems https://apps.apple.com/de/app/scan-thing-scan-anything/id1542730895?platfor= m=3Diphone ), so I don't have to work with the green screen or spend hours with lasso tools. I prefer to make music, draw, write something etc. myself and I would also prefer to do it myself if these strange AI apps were good at it, but so far they are not. Even where they are able to produce impressive results, they only adopt styles, they don't create them. But even if they could be truly creative, I want to express myself, the fulfillment for me is in the making, not just the intellectual, but also the craft, so even if my brushstroke is less practiced than an AI's, it would still be my brushstroke. There is certainly no clear dividing line between the stupid and the sensible use of AI. When I'm in a hurry, I sometimes type in German and have it translated into English to reply to a mailing list, but it's translating my own thoughts. I'm also trying to improve my own English skills, so I like to write without translation aids. https://www.deepl.com/de/translator Regards, Ralfbot :) From nobody Sun Nov 10 06:05:21 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmMcP0NFVz5cJMT for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 06:05:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zachary.crownover@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmMcN0m07z4LF9 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 06:05:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zachary.crownover@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-7205b6f51f3so2815907b3a.1 for ; Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:05:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1731218754; x=1731823554; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=I4eqn16PCeemKq+2uXi9MgZ0kwcZEF7nmAs1EpyMbJY=; b=DlZ/fkhMOCUq/7O3/W19jOzBB0Y8+9tWnUYM5m53+SqYSL4WLduGjFDU138PDunVkl aR8seJkDRidhyEzRlH67Fhw8s+SMmMMWa52mWm1wEqF0NoLfxXTS7I2FwhTVUrzyLUDd 4Z4nzQlyvSSzcG1w7SXKfbpKzP3X68ibOIaMEmmwywP2FHugquC3KkGWpFAg+AdGTzg+ M/6SFXg4Kc5Ogh0ECRgz/hbAPRrem+uMfwdOG+rcyxRE02/yUVjnZxkqn3twvMpte69f +xrakLZC5Ljn2cDRigOTmZFFElB9MoT7IuMNJx5+lv6r9n/iVNxK7Pu9hdHJ0L9rTejr /IWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1731218754; x=1731823554; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=I4eqn16PCeemKq+2uXi9MgZ0kwcZEF7nmAs1EpyMbJY=; b=SlekTR+HcMOu1omd/avrgBZR6usfdpzHB33BYdGn/6J26ws6L93fIWYmE3+ITQbAcC lmaWzR5QTNrNq+kdJlGsZbfXP70ciXHIvIvbnSmLSgiwv50P9fgiDH00c9L+8N4p0G/q Xa7gEYrJGCBsFJRq2JULh0i90KOCciCaxWbsn0trlTPoWOF0iqb2TIWafmi4YW9aDQDF rKzMaeIkMy6NhrtsarNvmfWC7eJji4j/bwnU9y01DCh0nI2Zqd/2ASzge4skGvrmv65W N/1IpGnAPZM1Ek6O5f9aULmAckk7GrfBwAUyCUxSObWhJnCSBJ9q/v18lEDpvwBljCF9 RLLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxLLG9gHJy6PUby2fwlPTkQ4wlejNEbE5dIFAWYFb8Blbx04b2n E4SBFpcVWrFXG0JMd3tz1jkYpR1AXzV5Y6DIUhVvC2PTXuG6esgM/T60EQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHyhQR1DnJjdIs8iHzXoYTpNAtk4DD+sXsbqbBO6zagQM1XIX4CmTaEYuwLf8JP+FNpJnLnpw== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:88d2:0:b0:71e:e3:608 with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-724133a03b9mr9022731b3a.26.1731218754400; Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:1010:b0b4:ef16:3ddf:5fce:494a:c152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-7240799bb78sm6526108b3a.95.2024.11.09.22.05.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:05:53 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-32DF8891-A05B-48A6-832B-30FDCA376D56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Feeling happy to join the community. From: Zachary Crownover In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2024 22:05:21 -0800 Cc: questions@freebsd.org Message-Id: <2966F5D0-3B45-47B2-9EF2-B28A256FEF4B@gmail.com> References: To: Jatin Pant X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22A3370) X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmMcN0m07z4LF9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --Apple-Mail-32DF8891-A05B-48A6-832B-30FDCA376D56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You= can start with installing ollama on your box and loading in a model.
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
pkg install ollama



El nov 9, 2024, a la(s) 15:04, Jatin Pant <notjatinpant@gmai= l.com> escribi=C3=B3:

=EF=BB=BF

From: Jatin Pant <notjatinpant@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Nov, 2024, 6:= 39 pm
Subject: Feeling happy to join the community.
To: <question= s@freebsd.org>


Hi, community membe= rs
I just wanted to say hi and feel pleasure in joining the= community and diving into a continuous learning experience.

For starters I have some questions regard= ing how freeBSD holds in today's world. How are we holding today where AI is= coming forward at a non-ignorable pace? How do we use AI? Also what should I= keep in mind while I am learning? What does the future holds?

Thankful and happy to connect
= --Apple-Mail-32DF8891-A05B-48A6-832B-30FDCA376D56-- From nobody Sun Nov 10 06:09:58 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmMj866H3z5cJYs for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 06:10:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx1.riseup.net", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmMj72Dxqz4MHD for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 06:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=M8CCzqNV; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net Received: from fews01-sea.riseup.net (fews01-sea-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.109]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmMj60yG2zDqJk for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 06:10:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1731219002; bh=tSMFthxelXV5G2GPatUOy4CXBGmo5YblJ3eetKebIpo=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=M8CCzqNV6NvSoLsKwaUdYN0gK21nJdlph7lt1F2brPyCWPWZNzSQ//QuZ8K041ZCm nzhdb3sKxzUCtaA4bUmcHvYEXDqIZOjb9rd00zLe1cX9h7marloA2/FvWWyzgGu5ld oXhNuR2LRRDP1ANzSOqw0lUArB8N5lZOCnBjuk6U= X-Riseup-User-ID: 67BF8573A09CF4B47753405D33628C493E0331CF22B0ACDD6B20136FB8C31EF6 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews01-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4XmMj54wkKzJqDF for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 06:10:01 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <81a33757e8a2f443f017f03cbf3184415e2b7d35.camel@riseup.net> Subject: Re: Feeling happy to join the community. From: Ralf Mardorf To: questions@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 07:09:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.20 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mx1.riseup.net]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmMj72Dxqz4MHD X-Spamd-Bar: ----- On Sun, 2024-11-10 at 04:33 +0530, Jatin Pant wrote: > How do we use AI? Idiot: Who should I vote for? Bot: Vote for a sexist, racist, criminal egomaniac and liar with the temperament of an irascible toddler. Because someone like that would be a trustworthy president to entrust with a powerful country and nuclear weapons. 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Sun, 10 Nov 2024 07:38:48 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 07:37:58 -0500 From: "Dan Langille" To: "via questions" Message-Id: <325967b5-f5f4-43b6-9f7b-39c2f4793a81@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <22042f18-4cbb-4f62-841b-fef4a7262899@app.fastmail.com> <1c49d4a22aefd22541a526d387912eb3@dalescott.net> <20241031225337.288E8A4F1F81@ary.qy> <382f9b53-0d5e-0fd3-5d9f-9d1a8954dd5b@iecc.com> <00907865-86c5-4fb4-bc3f-0c795de2f6fc@taugh.com> Subject: Re: dma: could not pick up queue file Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[langille.org,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:202.12.124.128/27]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[langille.org:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[dan]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[202.12.124.150:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[langille.org:+,messagingengine.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmXKk5RFVz4nSs X-Spamd-Bar: --- On Tue, Nov 5, 2024, at 3:35 PM, Daniel Tameling wrote: > On Sun, Nov 03, 2024 at 08:58:21AM -0500, Dan Langille wrote: >> >> Based on that, I'll add this to /etc/periodic.conf: >> >> # disable queuerun_enable to avoid conflict with dma >> daily_queuerun_enable="NO" >> >> That comment is just to remind me what it's for. >> >> Now it's just a matter of time. If there are no more incidents, I say you've solved it. Let's give it a few weeks. >> >> Thank you. Good job. :) > > Thanks. If something is running automatically that isn't started by > cron, periodic is always a good candidate. > > Btw.: there still is a dma port and its pkg-message says: > > And you can disable some sendmail specific daily maintenance routines in your > /etc/periodic.conf file: > > daily_clean_hoststat_enable="NO" > daily_status_mail_rejects_enable="NO" > daily_status_include_submit_mailq="NO" > daily_submit_queuerun="NO" That is a good find. Perhaps that should be added to the FreeBSD man page / docs for dma. For those following along at home, this is a good way to get more involved with the FreeBSD project. I'll talk more about those below. > The last one almost looks like what you set. The man page says: > > daily_queuerun_enable > (bool) Set to "YES" if you want to manually run the mail queue > at least once a day. > > daily_submit_queuerun > (bool) Set to "YES" if you also want to manually run the submit > mail queue at least once a day when daily_queuerun_enable is > set to "YES". > > So it looks like you found the parent of daily_submit_queuerun. > Hopefully that fixes the issue. I came to the mailing list to report upon progress. Over the past 7 days, there has been one incident. That was on a host which did not have any remediation - it did not have daily_queuerun_enable="NO" set. Note that the error message in question was slightly different from originally reported. The timing (around 0300 UTC, which is the time daily periodic scripts are run) is right. Nov 10 03:01:37 dev-pgeu dma[55d33.377910848050][79105]: could not acquire queue file: No such file or directory The original was: Oct 18 03:01:00 x8dtu-pg01 dma[dma][92883]: could not pick up queue file: `/var/spool/dma/Q5993d.326f7fa48050'/`/var/spool/dma/M5993d.326f7fa48050': No such file or directory I have since added the four directives you mention to that host and I'll spread that around to other hosts as well. Thank you. -- Dan Langille dan@langille.org From nobody Sun Nov 10 12:40:57 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmXNq1T6fz5chrm for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 12:41:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Received: from fhigh-b1-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b1-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.152]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmXNp0yfrz4pq9 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 12:41:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan@langille.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=langille.org header.s=fm3 header.b=mgG48A4y; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b="SNWqyz/k"; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dan@langille.org designates 202.12.124.152 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dan@langille.org; 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Sun, 10 Nov 2024 07:41:29 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 07:40:57 -0500 From: "Dan Langille" To: "via questions" Message-Id: <960f6496-2378-4ede-9daf-e7ba2326fff6@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <1c49d4a22aefd22541a526d387912eb3@dalescott.net> <20241031225337.288E8A4F1F81@ary.qy> <382f9b53-0d5e-0fd3-5d9f-9d1a8954dd5b@iecc.com> <00907865-86c5-4fb4-bc3f-0c795de2f6fc@taugh.com> Subject: Re: dma: could not pick up queue file Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.09 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[langille.org,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[langille.org:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:202.12.124.128/27:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[202.12.124.152:from]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[dan]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[langille.org:+,messagingengine.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmXNp0yfrz4pq9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Wed, Nov 6, 2024, at 12:02 PM, fatty.merchandise677@aceecat.org wrote: > On Tue, Nov 05, 2024 at 09:35:35PM GMT, Daniel Tameling wrote: > >> Thanks. If something is running automatically that isn't started by >> cron, periodic is always a good candidate. > > Wait, isn't periodic itself started by cron? So at best one can say > "started directly by cron" if there is a difference at all. A fine technical point. If I may guess at what Daniel wanted to say: If you are trying to find something which is running and you're not finding it in cron, look in periodic. -- Dan Langille dan@langille.org From nobody Sun Nov 10 13:52:33 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmYz15LTXz5cmpG for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 13:52:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from polarian@polarian.dev) Received: from mail.polarian.dev (mail.polarian.dev [IPv6:2001:8b0:57a:2385::8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmYz03QZ1z4vXG for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 13:52:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from polarian@polarian.dev) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=polarian.dev header.s=polarian header.b=eBVWvjfI; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of polarian@polarian.dev designates 2001:8b0:57a:2385::8 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=polarian@polarian.dev; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=polarian.dev Received: from Hydrogen (_gateway [192.168.2.1]) by mail.polarian.dev (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C802610A13C7 for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 13:52:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/relaxed; d=polarian.dev; s=polarian; t=1731246754; bh=Vu96lA9S6DY/tVx6lHjG2fs2gAxon94zi+4f67aLFgg=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=eBVWvjfIhqi3SulCfk7j/zxupSrJGjqNRWzA+CG3AlHN7183n75FTDTD/X5lzgitB WPm9snt/LJh9pxQZ81niBy+IeyOyRflK8HaDARbZ5DsIhdmFTHphoZekX4rZPyApWU GiG9i6thPo6RcgEPgkilnuyxAVeRnaGo7c2UTx8g= Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 13:52:33 +0000 From: Polarian To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Feeling happy to join the community. Message-ID: <20241110135233.7476b55f@Hydrogen> In-Reply-To: <81a33757e8a2f443f017f03cbf3184415e2b7d35.camel@riseup.net> References: <81a33757e8a2f443f017f03cbf3184415e2b7d35.camel@riseup.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.1) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[polarian.dev,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[polarian.dev:s=polarian]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:8b0:57a:2385::8]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20712, ipnet:2001:8b0::/34, country:GB]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[polarian.dev:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmYz03QZ1z4vXG X-Spamd-Bar: --- Hello, > Idiot: Who should I vote for? > > Bot: Vote for a sexist, racist, criminal egomaniac and liar with the > temperament of an irascible toddler. Because someone like that would > be a trustworthy president to entrust with a powerful country and > nuclear weapons. Can we not bring politics into the mailing list, I understand that some people are highly emotional after the US elections but making little digs like this on a public mailing list will cause division. I am sure there are plenty of people who agree with you, but there is also plenty who disagree, which is exactly why political references/comments are a bad idea. I do firmly believe someones politics is noticeable simply by looking at the email server they use, people into eco politics will go towards email hosting companies which promise 100% renewable energy and take steps to lower their waste and emissions at their offices, and in your case, riseup members tend to be anarcho-communists, so its no surprise your stance taken here, but lets keep it off the mailing list :D Take care, -- Polarian GPG signature: 0770E5312238C760 Jabber/XMPP: polarian@icebound.dev From nobody Sun Nov 10 15:40:21 2024 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4XmcMK1NdCz5ct9b for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 15:40:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Received: from mx0.riseup.net (mx0.riseup.net [198.252.153.6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mx0.riseup.net", Issuer "R10" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmcMJ159lz44YV for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 15:40:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf-mardorf@riseup.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=bTPITZDf; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ralf-mardorf@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.6 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ralf-mardorf@riseup.net; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net Received: from fews01-sea.riseup.net (fews01-sea-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.109]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mx0.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4XmcMG6bf1z9v4x for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 15:40:26 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1731253226; bh=Q9Rb1TE48fqsBcy7GXjGVCFeBWEQYvdPZR61WDqRyh0=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=bTPITZDfQbsekZ8k66cue0F64fWGnMgXSPpArO9kbtLMoFN7haQlApFIQ/lTSsjOf SUe36jpUrtQJPpeLu3x8KJvgyNFTkrig/zQdA444xz3ev6xfBEGFOqX44B+fffsoZF 7RA+vR9DptcjuYH0hfCuG3c6y7CjED6o7nP4+BZk= X-Riseup-User-ID: 9C082F5D51CB72F1113AD6FAB8BD0E6E88E2B9A8541FB64F4E93AA4E665E667A Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews01-sea.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4XmcMG2JDQzJsFX for ; Sun, 10 Nov 2024 15:40:26 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1625578f6f0c584eb3890b82b32b500387afba09.camel@riseup.net> Subject: Re: Feeling happy to join the community. From: Ralf Mardorf To: questions@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 16:40:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20241110135233.7476b55f@Hydrogen> References: <81a33757e8a2f443f017f03cbf3184415e2b7d35.camel@riseup.net> <20241110135233.7476b55f@Hydrogen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.10 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a:mx0.riseup.net]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.6:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4XmcMJ159lz44YV X-Spamd-Bar: ----- On Sun, 2024-11-10 at 13:52 +0000, Polarian wrote: > Can we not bring politics into the mailing list, I understand that > some people are highly emotional after the US elections but making > little digs like this on a public mailing list will cause division. >=20 > I am sure there are plenty of people who agree with you, but there is > also plenty who disagree, which is exactly why political > references/comments are a bad idea. Hi, that was possibly a purely fictitious example ;). A fictitious, simple- minded person asks a bot and the fictitious bot gives a dangerous answer that the simple-minded person might still believe. Maybe I wasn't thinking about real elections, maybe that's why I didn't mention any nations or names of real people. The fact that it can be interpreted as if I had alluded to a real election makes it all the more clear how dangerous blind faith in AI, e.g. in the form of bots, can potentially be. How likely is it that someone will provide a bot, free of charge or affordable for everyone, that does the hard work of independent thinking for people, without any ulterior motives and for purely altruistic reasons? Mind you, in a world where a grotesque, perhaps truly (perhaps not) fictional example can be mistaken for an allusion to reality. I apologize, but that's exactly the point! Can AI help detect cancer earlier, assess climate models, in other words prevent disasters that affect people? Sure it can, but AI has long been misused to cause people distress. You can't make this kind of thing clear with nice examples that don't make anyone uncomfortable. Regards, Ralf