From nobody Mon Jul 8 04:33:27 2024 X-Original-To: users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WHWTZ23y2z5QtHg for ; Mon, 08 Jul 2024 04:33:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xlsvx@yahoo.co.jp) Received: from omggw7017-vm0.mail.djm.yahoo.co.jp (omggw7017-vm0.mail.djm.yahoo.co.jp [183.79.55.10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4WHWTW3pbRz53B4 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2024 04:33:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xlsvx@yahoo.co.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.co.jp header.s=yj20110701 header.b=CQWN7uX6; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=yahoo.co.jp; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of xlsvx@yahoo.co.jp designates 183.79.55.10 as permitted sender) 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d=yahoo.co.jp; h=Date:From:In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gU+JM/l39YNcqbSbDF98vCgukAbJpmnnV+iJ4NRfM/6iYbmIuf8yaGqrlayCHFXe m0BVQ3uJO8GjtwRDcuUVNOSiJFRUqyC6X4LqfDiwOajL3YqW0FSEw0kUKCQ4nYcI8sY AUNh5Q2UVpoKEYSScvWOgtcaVVEzI6SJ2OK3HEiw=; Received: by smtphe5004.mail.kks.ynwp.yahoo.co.jp (YJ Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e733a21d7ae166f668795c468d1010a7; Mon, 08 Jul 2024 13:33:28 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2024 13:33:27 +0900 From: bluesky To: users-jp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Firefox =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJEcbKEI=?= canna =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJCwwbEVZJE4kXxsoQg==?= In-Reply-To: <20240707190420.a3c1075d754e9367d02f58f9@yahoo.co.jp> References: <20240704225420.4b9a1b61fba23c5da261f366@j.email.ne.jp> <20240707190420.a3c1075d754e9367d02f58f9@yahoo.co.jp> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.8.0beta1 (GTK+ 2.24.30; i686-pc-mingw32) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: 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MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[users-jp@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24572, ipnet:183.79.0.0/16, country:JP]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[183.79.55.10:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WHWTW3pbRz53B4 $B$G!"C&@~$G$9$,!"(B uim-anthy $B$N@_Dj!"5/F0J}K!$K$D$$$F!"(B $B>\$7$$J}$N(B web $B%Z!<%8$r8+$D$1$?$N$GDI5-$7$^$9!#(B ($B$3$N@_Dj$N$9$Y$F$N9`L\$r!";d$O$^$@;n$7$F$$$^$;$s$,!D(B)$B!#(B -- $BX)B<@.0l(B From nobody Mon Jul 8 04:57:56 2024 X-Original-To: users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WHX1r0DlMz5Qvr0 for ; Mon, 08 Jul 2024 04:58:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xlsvx@yahoo.co.jp) Received: from omggw0001.mail.otm.yahoo.co.jp (omggw0001.mail.otm.yahoo.co.jp [182.22.18.29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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<20240704225420.4b9a1b61fba23c5da261f366@j.email.ne.jp> <20240707190420.a3c1075d754e9367d02f58f9@yahoo.co.jp> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.8.0beta1 (GTK+ 2.24.30; i686-pc-mingw32) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.00 / 15.00]; MISSING_MID(2.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.co.jp,quarantine]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.co.jp:s=yj20110701]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:182.22.18.0/23]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; 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mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=dec.sakura.ne.jp header.s=s2405 header.b=PPagNWvh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=dec.sakura.ne.jp; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp designates 153.125.133.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-1-21-232.area1b.commufa.jp [123.1.21.232]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 468D13ov039731; Mon, 8 Jul 2024 22:01:03 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1720443664; bh=pBsfkCf/UBJgqkj/1sYGCucZhbglST0HtZ0IXYabopo=; h=Date:From:To:Subject; b=PPagNWvhbGqfY4TnqfWavZigeIFnbDArk3AsnM6eQVYeDvzdwzLXK77acHiLO5wRx e/XvNaSW3jQoC5Ot2/IKEFWZT9TF8Exw17HHsCXTRKrB01Dq89F2zG3JKjyWzKljnZ 5w9NcOSLkIfEcoMJOPQefBpUuoU3z5/3+h4w6ags= Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2024 22:01:03 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: users-jp@freebsd.org Subject: fcitx5-mozc Message-Id: <20240708220103.2046edddfce0359636a00f66@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.0) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.40 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[dec.sakura.ne.jp,none]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[dec.sakura.ne.jp:s=s2405]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:153.125.133.16/28]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[users-jp@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[dec.sakura.ne.jp:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WHklG3VMyz4hvk 青木@名古屋です。 現在、FreeBSD関係ではports-mgmt/pkg_replaceの開発・メンテナンス等を されている出口さんがgithubでfcitx5-mozcやportsにあるものより新しい x11-wm/compiz関連その他諸々の移植作業をしておられ、portsのoverlay機能 を使う前提のリポジトリ[1]が公開されています。 このリポジトリを発見して以降やりとりさせて頂いている中で、ここやForums 等で紹介する許可を頂きました。 [1] https://github.com/kdeguchi/ports [2] https://kdeguchi.lsv.jp/2023/09/06/post-1233/ 注意点としては、 　・pkgの形では提供されていない。 　・そのまま利用するにはportsのoverlay機能の使い方を理解している 　　必要がある。 　・fcitx4にあったIMEパネルはfcitx5では無くなった。（mateの場合、mateの 　　パネル上の状態表示アイコンは残っている） 　・辞書データの中に頻繁に更新されているものがあるため、タイミングに 　　よってはファイルの取得に失敗することがある。 　・mozc自体が新しいバージョンになるため、出口さんご自身が使わない 　　ため未着手のibus-mozcやuim-mozcはビルドできなくなる。 　・現状、現在の理屈通りの対応ではpoudriereでのビルドがうまくいかない。 　　（古典的なBUILD_DEPENDSへの追加が必要なものがある） といったところです。　私の場合、依存関係の絡みであえてportsの バージョンを使いたいものもあったためoverlay機能を使わず、 出口さんのoverlayとportsツリーの差分から欲しい物だけ切り出した diffを適用（削除されるファイルへの対応の関係でgdiffとgpatchを 使う必要あり）しています。 一応ポイントとしては、「overlayに存在するディレクトリについては portsや下（より大元のportsに近い段階）のoverlayの内容は無視される ものの、/usr/ports/Mk/以下は例外らしい」というところでしょうか。 portsツリーに存在してoverlayには無いファイルを残すようにパッチを 当ててしまうと基本的にビルドに失敗します。　当初、ファイル単位で マスクされるものと思ってパッチを生成していてうまくいきませんでした。 ここから先は、出口さんのリポジトリを発見するに至った経緯ですので、 読み飛ばして頂いて全く問題ありません。 久しく日本語入力にはfcitx-mozcを使ってきたのですが、これは旧バージョンの chinese/fcitx (所謂fcitx4) に対するもので、先行きに不安があります。 また、試しに入れてみたx11/kittyで日本語入力できず、調べてみるとibusの インターフェースしかサポートせず、現行のfcitx5 (textproc/fcitx) なら ibusのインターフェースに対応しているものの、旧バージョンのfcitx4では できないことも判明しました。　これがターミナルエミュレータ全般なり （違う類でも）Rustで書かれたソフトウェア全般がその方向になると、 今のトレンドのままRustが普及すると日本語入力したくてもできないケースが 懸念されます。 現行のjapanese/mozc-serverのMakefileを見るとfcitx5の機能を無効にして fcitx4を活かすように設定されているようだったので、最も安直な形で fcitx5を使う形に書き直してみてもうまくいかず、腰を据えてできるときに 少しずつやってみる...前に、誰かやっていないか久しぶりに確認してみようと 探していて出口さんのサイトに行き当たりました。 さらに、現メンテナの手が回っていなくてportsが古いバージョンで止まって いるため設定ツールが使えなくて他の方にお薦めできなかったcompizまで 後継バージョン（0.8系）の新しいものが用意されていたことに嬉しくなって しまい、pkg_replaceのバグレポートの関係でご縁のあった出口さんだった こともあって連絡を取らせて頂いて今に至る形です。 -- 青木 知明 [Tomoaki AOKI] From nobody Sat Jul 13 23:04:24 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WM3vg3JRbz5RK3Y for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2024 23:05:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kinchan@kinchan.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x1130.google.com (mail-yw1-x1130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4WM3vf1ydnz4QqQ for 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NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.997]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[midgen.asia,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:185.70.43.0/24]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[midgen.asia:s=protonmail]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[185.70.43.17:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62371, ipnet:185.70.43.0/24, country:CH]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[185.70.43.17:from]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[midgen.asia:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WM5zt28dBz4Xdp =E4=BA=AC=E9=83=BD=E3=81=AEROM=E5=B0=82=E3=81=AE=E9=88=B4=E6=9C=A8=E3=81= =A8=E7=94=B3=E3=81=97=E3=81=BE=E3=81=99=E3=80=82=E3=81=93=E3=82=8C=E3=81= =8B=E3=82=89=E9=8D=BC=E7=81=B8=E5=B0=82=E9=96=80=E5=AD=A6=E6=A0=A1=E3=81= =AE=E5=8F=97=E9=A8=93=E3=81=A7=E3=81=99=E3=80=82 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=E5=87=BA=E6=9D=A5=E3=81=A6=E3=81=84=E3=82=8B=E5=A0=B4=E5=90=88=E3=80=81= =E4=BE=8B=E3=81=88=E3=81=B0 16GB =E3=81=AB=E3=81=99=E3=82=8B=E3=81=A8 > =E3=81=9D=E3=82=8C=E3=81=AA=E3=82=8A=E3=81=AB=E6=B4=BB=E7=94=A8=E3=81= =97=E3=81=A6=E3=81=8F=E3=82=8C=E3=82=8B=E3=81=AE=E3=81=8B=E3=80=81=E3=81= =82=E3=82=8B=E3=81=84=E3=81=AF=E5=9F=BA=E6=9C=AC=E7=9A=84=E3=81=AB=E7=84= =A1=E9=A7=84=E3=81=AA=E3=81=AE=E3=81=8B=E3=82=82=E7=9F=A5=E3=82=8A=E3=81= =9F=E3=81=84=E3=81=A7=E3=81=99=E3=80=82 > FreeBSD =E3=81=8C=E8=89=AF=E3=81=8D=E3=81=AB=E8=A8=88=E3=82=89=E3=81= =A3=E3=81=A6=E3=81=8F=E3=82=8C=E3=82=8B=E3=81=AE=E3=81=AA=E3=82=89 16GB = =E3=81=AB=E3=81=99=E3=82=8B=E6=84=8F=E5=91=B3=E3=81=8C=E3=81=82=E3=82=8B= =E3=81=AE=E3=81=8B=E3=81=AA=EF=BC=9F > =20 > =E5=A4=89=E3=81=AA=E8=B3=AA=E5=95=8F=E3=81=A7=E6=81=90=E7=B8=AE=E3=81= =A7=E3=81=99=E3=81=8C=E3=81=94=E6=95=99=E7=A4=BA=E9=A0=82=E3=81=91=E3=82= =8B=E3=81=A8=E5=B9=B8=E3=81=84=E3=81=A7=E3=81=99=E3=80=82 > =E5=A4=B1=E7=A4=BC=E3=81=97=E3=81=BE=E3=81=99=E3=80=82 > From nobody Sun Jul 14 04:04:53 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WMBYP4Xslz5Q65w for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 04:04:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Received: from hsmtpd-fgn.xspmail.jp (hsmtpd-fgn.xspmail.jp [210.130.137.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4WMBYN6Wwnz41wD for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 04:04:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ota@j.email.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1720929869; d=j.email.ne.jp; s=x01; i=ota@j.email.ne.jp; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to: message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:from; bh=BA6ljPkyTWjgurMttgbtnN7HbnMPfb8dKCyVvPngj1I=; b=APhxMNyrCLk4x+8v8emLfzx7j6rvCNd2/ZHBHRY3PqyHjUOVQT0pj+w36JF9rRenuBuqfN6aG7iFc Yj1iquLXHhIm9kAdFoL3Vxf3VREOugR/w/Y3sNnh8cGZuRpwe+cYoRA+Bms23S69WPw9IYqw85ep1R 5hJrXfrq0hAH6la7UDtwfuPb1LkgNx7+tQmuFjHEu4ffZrX+qJkso6gtiZm6ryk+pb7Fud8LWN1wnU cywCgdksnjqGIgq+dzS2R/vKS1sLa2gV6eACvpDvX53u7rIroSoGSkT/qaASvFqO+nDyMvHcB/fXEe qPbp5oB7w8uh7oXyVS2OzAn/vTuFkyw== X-Country-Code: US Received: from a315-53.myfiosgateway.com (pool-173-63-93-67.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net [173.63.93.67]) by hsmtpd-out-0.asahinet.cluster.xspmail.jp (Halon) with ESMTPA id 15ecc2d6-fb8a-47bd-911d-f9cbba8aac5b; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 13:04:28 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 00:04:53 -0400 From: Yoshihiro Ota To: Yoshito Takeuchi Cc: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: swap =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJDckPyRpSWkkMTE/TVEkS0ksTVckSiVhGyhC?= =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCJWIlak5MJE8hKRsoQg==?= Message-Id: <20240714000453.2786d0ef842cf74ebac3d909@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.2) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:2497, ipnet:210.130.0.0/16, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WMBYN6Wwnz41wD $BB@ED$G$9!#(B $BMxMQ$7$F$$$k%W%m%0%i%`$K0M$k$N$G!"6qBNE*$J?t;z$r$"$2$k$N$OFq$7$$$H$3$m$G$9!#(B $B%+!<%M%k$K%W%m%;%9$,;&$5$l$J$1$l$P!"4pK\E*$KBg>fIW$@$H;W$$$^$9!#(B $BM>J,$K$"$k%a%b%j$O%U%!%$%k%-%c%C%7%eEy$H$7$F<+F0E*$K;H$o$l$^$9!#(B $B$`$7$m!"L5M}$7$F%9%o%C%W$r@_Dj$7$J$$$h$j$b!"(BSSD $B$G(B swap $B$r$9$k$H(B $B9bB.$G=hM}$G$-!"MxMQ46Ey$K$b1F6A$O$[$\L5$$$N$G$*4+$a$G$9!#(B On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 08:04:24 +0900 Yoshito Takeuchi wrote: > $B$3$s$K$A$O!"$*@$OC$K$J$j$^$9!#C]Fb$H?=$7$^$9!#(B > $BI=Bj$K=q$$$?DL$j(B swap $B$7$?$iIi$11?MQ$r9M$($F$$$k$N$G$9$,(B > $BI,MW$J%a%b%j$O$I$N$h$&$K$7$F5a$a$?$iNI$$$N$G$7$g$&$+!)(B > $B8= $B%a%s%F%J%s%9$N(B portmaster -ad $B$J$I$r9T$C$F$b(B swap $B$,;HMQ$5$l$F$$$J$$$3$H$G5a$a$F$$$^$9!#(B > $B;d$N1?MQ4D6-!J:G6aN.9T$j!)$N%_%K(BPC$B$G$9!K$G$O(B 8GB $B%a%b%j$"$l$P(B swap $B$7$?$iIi$11?MQ$,=PMh$F$$$k$h$&(B > $B$G$9!J2a5n?t%v7n$N1?MQ$G(B swap $B$O;H$o$l$F$$$^$;$s!K!#(B > $B$A$J$_$K(B cloudfraled, wordpress, vaultwarden$B!J%Q%9%o!<%I4IM}%=%U%H!K(B,NAS $B$N1?MQ$G$9!#(B > > $B$"$H!"2>$K(B 8GB $B$G(B swap $B$7$?$iIi$11?MQ$,=PMh$F$$$k>l9g!"Nc$($P(B 16GB $B$K$9$k$H(B > $B$=$l$J$j$K3hMQ$7$F$/$l$k$N$+!"$"$k$$$O4pK\E*$KL5BL$J$N$+$bCN$j$?$$$G$9!#(B > FreeBSD $B$,NI$-$K7W$i$C$F$/$l$k$N$J$i(B 16GB $B$K$9$k0UL#$,$"$k$N$+$J!)(B > > $BJQ$J $B<:Ni$7$^$9!#(B From nobody Sun Jul 14 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List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240714000453.2786d0ef842cf74ebac3d909@j.email.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <20240714000453.2786d0ef842cf74ebac3d909@j.email.ne.jp> From: Yoshito Takeuchi Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 16:36:10 +0900 Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IHN3YXAg44GX44Gf44KJ6LKg44GR6YGL55So44Gr5b+F6KaB44Gq44Oh44Oi44Oq?= =?UTF-8?B?6YeP44Gv77yf?= To: Yoshihiro Ota Cc: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WMHG86Synz4LYN 5aSq55Sw5qeYDQrjgZTmlZnnpLrjgYLjgorjgYzjgajjgYbjgZTjgZbjgYTjgb7jgZnjgIINCg0K 44Go44GT44KN44Gn44CB5piU44GvIHN3YXAg44Gv44Oh44Oi44Oq44Gu5YCN44Go44Gu5rOV5YmH 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RCDjgYzoia/jgY3jgavoqIjjgonjgaPjgabjgY/jgozjgovjga7jgarjgokgMTZHQiDjgavjgZnj govmhI/lkbPjgYzjgYLjgovjga7jgYvjgarvvJ8NCj4gPg0KPiA+IOWkieOBquizquWVj+OBp+aB kOe4ruOBp+OBmeOBjOOBlOaVmeekuumgguOBkeOCi+OBqOW5uOOBhOOBp+OBmeOAgg0KPiA+IOWk seekvOOBl+OBvuOBmeOAgg0K From nobody Sun Jul 14 09:04:21 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WMKCH380Cz5Qcyx for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:04:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4WMKCG3zMPz4ShJ for ; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:04:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-1-21-232.area1b.commufa.jp [123.1.21.232]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 46E94LBF047381; Sun, 14 Jul 2024 18:04:21 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1720947862; bh=2iDVI/4X/4/YOYjUUIO84HUaiSLeKbcTrWBcnfEgGHY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=l3atbyi+LC0RGB6NDkCXlTnrxxzWpe/6eAb91i07t6WuLzf5rOWiGgPuJxCnWZCXL HjGdKdBD+xKBMsX4gQAn9sZQqiez4O3T5DgVeeiuDQFc6qS9IWwipOB4qhmAZmyblO +sNzmgOx8qN7cj9PfS1yW41NeSzrSaZO5febUdPs= Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 18:04:21 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Yoshito Takeuchi Cc: Yoshihiro Ota , freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: swap =?UTF-8?B?44GX44Gf44KJ6LKg44GR6YGL55So44Gr5b+F6KaB44Gq?= =?UTF-8?B?44Oh44Oi44Oq6YeP44Gv77yf?= Message-Id: <20240714180421.102c150c9fff0cee62edfa2a@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20240714000453.2786d0ef842cf74ebac3d909@j.email.ne.jp> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.1) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WMKCG3zMPz4ShJ 青木@名古屋です。 このあたりは、カーネルがpanicしたときのcoreの出し方が変わった ことが関係しているかもしれません。 以前はフルダンプといってメインメモリまるごと＋補足情報を swapに書き出し、再起動時にサルベージする形式だったため、 ある程度swapが使われていてもそのための領域を確保できるように 倍量が推奨されていたかと思います。 現在は特に指定しない限りミニダンプ（カーネルが使用している メモリのみ）かテキストダンプ（デバッグ情報のみ）になっている と思います。　英文ですが、[1]をご参照下さい。 （翻訳が追いついていない可能性もありますので） [1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/developers-handbook/kerneldebug/ 普段はdumpdevを設定していなくても、クラッシュが繰り返し起こる状況 等にdumpdevを指定していずれかの形式のクラッシュダンプを取得する 場合、たとえUFSでもswapfileの使用はお薦めできません（書き出しのために ファイルシステムのコードを通ろうとしても、ある意味専用ルートのある swap partitionと違ってそこでまたエラーになってリブートなどという 状況があり得ます。　どんなにケチってもテキストダンプ、できれば ミニダンプを取れる程度のswap partitionは確保だけでもしておく価値は あると思います。　swapしたくなければswaponされない設定にしておけば いいのですから。　（/etc/fstabにswapのエントリをコメントで入れておく等） On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 16:36:10 +0900 Yoshito Takeuchi wrote: > 太田様 > ご教示ありがとうございます。 > > ところで、昔は swap はメモリの倍との法則？があったように記憶しておりますが > 最近の FreeBSD インストーラーで auto にまかせるとメモリが 8GB や 16GB でも > 2GB や 4GB の swap を作成します。 > 後から swap を足すことが出来るかもしれませんが、これはメモリが 8GB 以上あるなら > swap は大方の用途で 2-4GB あれば十分と言うことなのかな？と思っていますがこれは正しいですか？ > ご教示頂けると幸いです。 > 失礼します。 > > 2024年7月14日(日) 13:04 Yoshihiro Ota : > > > > > 太田です。 > > > > 利用しているプログラムに依るので、具体的な数字をあげるのは難しいところです。 > > カーネルにプロセスが殺されなければ、基本的に大丈夫だと思います。 > > 余分にあるメモリはファイルキャッシュ等として自動的に使われます。 > > > > むしろ、無理してスワップを設定しないよりも、SSD で swap をすると > > 高速で処理でき、利用感等にも影響はほぼ無いのでお勧めです。 > > > > > > On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 08:04:24 +0900 > > Yoshito Takeuchi wrote: > > > > > こんにちは、お世話になります。竹内と申します。 > > > 表題に書いた通り swap したら負け運用を考えているのですが > > > 必要なメモリはどのようにして求めたら良いのでしょうか？ > > > 現実問題として私の回答は実際に数日運用して > > > メンテナンスの portmaster -ad などを行っても swap が使用されていないことで求めています。 > > > 私の運用環境（最近流行り？のミニPCです）では 8GB メモリあれば swap したら負け運用が出来ているよう > > > です（過去数ヶ月の運用で swap は使われていません）。 > > > ちなみに cloudfraled, wordpress, vaultwarden（パスワード管理ソフト）,NAS の運用です。 > > > > > > あと、仮に 8GB で swap したら負け運用が出来ている場合、例えば 16GB にすると > > > それなりに活用してくれるのか、あるいは基本的に無駄なのかも知りたいです。 > > > FreeBSD が良きに計らってくれるのなら 16GB にする意味があるのかな？ > > > > > > 変な質問で恐縮ですがご教示頂けると幸いです。 > > > 失礼します。 > -- 青木 知明 [Tomoaki AOKI] From nobody Sun Jul 14 18:41:57 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org 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https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240714000453.2786d0ef842cf74ebac3d909@j.email.ne.jp> <20240714180421.102c150c9fff0cee62edfa2a@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <20240714180421.102c150c9fff0cee62edfa2a@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Yoshito Takeuchi Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 03:41:57 +0900 Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IHN3YXAg44GX44Gf44KJ6LKg44GR6YGL55So44Gr5b+F6KaB44Gq44Oh44Oi44Oq?= =?UTF-8?B?6YeP44Gv77yf?= To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: Yoshihiro Ota , freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 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