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https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-July/000143.html www.freebsd.org$B$N%K%e!<%9%j%j!<%9$K$bFC$K7G:\$O$J$/!"$^$C$?$/5$$E$-$^(B $B$;$s$G$7$?!#(B $B$?$H$($P:#8e$N(B13$B$H(B14$B$N%j%j!<%9M=Dj$O$3$s$J46$8$i$7$$$G$9!#(B 13$B$H(B14$BH4?h(B 13.3: Mar 2024 Dec 2024 13.4: Sep 2024 Jun 2025 13.5: Mar 2025 Apr 2026* 14.1: Jun 2024 Mar 2025 14.2: Dec 2024 Sep 2025 14.3: Jun 2025 Jun 2026 14.4: Mar 2026 Dec 2026 14.5: Sep 2026 Jun 2027 14.6: Mar 2027 Nov 2028* $B8=>u(BFreeBSD13.3$B$N%5!<%P!<$,$=$l$J$j$K$"$k$?$a(B1$BBf$E$D(Bfreebsd-update$B$G$N(B $B99?7$O8=G/$K(B1$B2s$N%^%$%J!<%P!<%8%g%s%"%C%W$H$$$&OC$rCN$C$F$9$C$+$j(B $B?4$,@^$l$^$7$?!#!#!#(B Red Hat$B$b%^%$%J!<%P!<%8%g%s%"%C%W$O$"$j$^$9$,!"B?$/$N>l9g$$$D$b$h$j%"%C(B $B%W%G!<%H$K;~4V$,$+$+$k$J!"$/$i$$$G@_Dj%U%!%$%k$b$=$3$^$GJQ99$O$J$+$C$?(B $B$G$9(B($B$3$l$^$G(B)$B!#(B $B<+J,E*$K$O:GAa$3$l$^$G$+!"!"$H$$$&46$8$G$9!#(B (2026$BG/$N(B13.5$B$N(BEOL$B$^$G$KC&=P7W2h$+$J$!!#!#(B) $B$_$J$5$s$O$I$&$5$l$F$$$^$9$+!)!)(B --- $B$9$:$-(B From nobody Wed Sep 11 12:13:13 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X3fc01jvHz5WY2G for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 12:13:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X3fbz4hPsz4gwC for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 12:13:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-1-21-232.area1b.commufa.jp [123.1.21.232]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 48BCDE4X035890; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:13:15 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1726056795; bh=FP6/4+zxneWmso9aYzkrUHEmtzcwet34Xf65ZINruNk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=Df0j8aToBMcSK/uTegWyn9rhpsol2+XMusUTr1pCQVUbaL+ELCnCh5BwjgSiYiAib CVkEn9yAl34HgPu32nTdww4rfvd7zW0bxZpVYFsxydyXAWawOvA85MYRWvmOgshk3+ /kW0BzOU50kDSOWZvmofZQ6Zf5LsZRtxqDcGTEZA= Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:13:13 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: zen-freebsd-ml@suzuki.que.ne.jp Cc: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?RnJlZUJTROOBruODquODquODvOOCueOCteOCpOOCr+ODqw==?= =?UTF-8?B?5aSJ5pu044Gr44Gk44GE44Gm?= Message-Id: <20240911211313.1852f233d7a4bb3a5000335f@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <20240911.161356.1304132417828656068.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> References: <20240911.161356.1304132417828656068.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.1) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X3fbz4hPsz4gwC On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 16:13:56 +0900 (JST) zen-freebsd-ml@suzuki.que.ne.jp wrote: > 鈴木＠葛飾区です。 > > 久々のMLへの投稿です。。 > > 間抜けなことにFreeBSDのリリースサイクルが変更されたことに昨日気づきま > した (;_;) > > 13.4とか言っているので13.3からまだ半年なのに変則的なリリースだなぁ？と > 思っていろいろ検索していたら7月に今後のマイナーバージョンのリリースは > 半年ごとになりますみたいな決定がされていたようです。 > > https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-July/000143.html > > www.freebsd.orgのニュースリリースにも特に掲載はなく、まったく気づきま > せんでした。 > > たとえば今後の13と14のリリース予定はこんな感じらしいです。 > > 13と14抜粋 > 13.3: Mar 2024 Dec 2024 > 13.4: Sep 2024 Jun 2025 > 13.5: Mar 2025 Apr 2026* > > 14.1: Jun 2024 Mar 2025 > 14.2: Dec 2024 Sep 2025 > 14.3: Jun 2025 Jun 2026 > 14.4: Mar 2026 Dec 2026 > 14.5: Sep 2026 Jun 2027 > 14.6: Mar 2027 Nov 2028* > > 現状FreeBSD13.3のサーバーがそれなりにあるため1台づつfreebsd-updateでの > 更新は現実的ではないため1台で更新して更新後のバイナリを各マシンに配布、 > 設定ファイル等は変更の必要なもののみ配布することでバージョンアップを簡 > 略化していましたが更新の際にはそれなりに確認等も必要で楽では無い。。 > > そこに来て半年に1回のマイナーバージョンアップという話を知ってすっかり > 心が折れました。。。 > > Red Hatもマイナーバージョンアップはありますが、多くの場合いつもよりアッ > プデートに時間がかかるな、くらいで設定ファイルもそこまで変更はなかった > です(これまで)。 > > 自分的には最早これまでか、、という感じです。 > (2026年の13.5のEOLまでに脱出計画かなぁ。。) > > みなさんはどうされていますか？？ > --- > すずき 私の場合、FreeBSDで使っているPCがノート1台だけということもありますが、 日常使用は最新のstableブランチ（現在はstable/14）を原則1回/週でソース から更新（セキュリティ関係や注目すべき更新があった場合は臨時更新も）、 1回/2週間～1ヶ月で別物理ドライブのmainブランチをソースから更新という 運用です。 ※つまり、まだ先ですが今後stable/15ブランチが切られたら日常使用の 　環境はそちらに切り替えです。 mainブランチは非常時のレスキュー用 兼 MFCされたときの影響が大きそうな 更新のテスト環境です。　ここで問題になりそうであれば何らかの方法で （Bugzillaへの不具合情報登録・freebsd-current MLでの注意喚起・ dev-commits-src-main MLの当該コミット分への返信等）フィードバックして 修正又はMFC予定の撤回を求めることにしています。 そういった形で主にstableブランチを使用していますが、 　・portsからインストールしたカーネルモジュールはbaseの更新毎に 　　必ずportsからビルド・インストールしなおす。 　・ZFSを使用し、最悪の場合戻せるようにスナップショットを取っておく。 　・確実に何も使っていないことを確認するまで`make delete-old-libs`は 　　絶対に行わない。 　・mainブランチで問題が出ていないことが確認できていてブランチを 　　切り替えるとき以外はZFSのプールのupgradeは絶対に行わず、 　　行う場合は先にブートコードを更新する。 という運用で、次のstableブランチへの切り替え以外かつビルド・インストール でエラーにならなかった場合は困ったことはありません。 ※portsの更新関係での困りごとのほうが遥かに多いです。 英語ではありますがfreebsd-stable MLを見ていると、同じブランチ （relengは対応するstableブランチ単位で判断）内で互換性問題が 生じたらたいてい誰かが騒ぎ出しますので、releng（14系での次は releng/14.2）ブランチが切られる前にある程度対処方法も掴めるかと 思います。 13系なら13系、14系なら14系の中であればいいのですが、このレベルを 乗り換える際はmainブランチの更新頻度を引き上げて安全性を確認する 等の対応はしています。　リスクが段違いになりますので。 -- 青木 知明 [Tomoaki AOKI] From nobody Wed Sep 11 22:07:51 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X3xVq0Z0Sz5WJbl for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 23:24:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X3xVn2QnYz47nG for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2024 23:24:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (123-1-21-232.area1b.commufa.jp [123.1.21.232]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 48BNOalT065928; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:24:37 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1726097077; bh=pJTp1QiQgvpGKTKJFcDxBALANiLQm3J2KQQdGFkCFsc=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=gi+fBGZ4XA4eJBnfiLZvuChm7CHuKRf6zXMU48HAKqJFGJMDp2WWSgh1+lL2kpb52 GbtZXAG4DfsdnjljcHeysX5lr5YBMAMImjLRcrKG6xCiZF3AoG7UClHA3YXQqSqgwF /D9tgVkcbn44JS/11yR+3+Mjkz7ogYPYwkCCEZ10= Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2024 08:24:36 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Motoyuki KONNO Cc: FreeBSD-users-jp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?RnJlZUJTROOBruODquODquODvOOCueOCteOCpOOCr+ODqw==?= =?UTF-8?B?5aSJ5pu044Gr44Gk44GE44Gm?= Message-Id: <20240912082436.c3aae57007aed463a63f91ed@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <20240911.161356.1304132417828656068.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.1) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X3xVn2QnYz47nG 青木@名古屋です。 On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 07:07:51 +0900 Motoyuki KONNO wrote: > 今野です。 > > 2024年9月11日(水) 16:16 : > > > 間抜けなことにFreeBSDのリリースサイクルが変更されたことに昨日気づきま > > した (;_;) > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-July/000143.html > > > > www.freebsd.orgのニュースリリースにも特に掲載はなく、まったく気づきま > > せんでした。 > > > > たとえば今後の13と14のリリース予定はこんな感じらしいです。 > > > > 13と14抜粋 > > 13.3: Mar 2024 Dec 2024 > > 13.4: Sep 2024 Jun 2025 > > 13.5: Mar 2025 Apr 2026* > > > > 14.1: Jun 2024 Mar 2025 > > 14.2: Dec 2024 Sep 2025 > > 14.3: Jun 2025 Jun 2026 > > 14.4: Mar 2026 Dec 2026 > > 14.5: Sep 2026 Jun 2027 > > 14.6: Mar 2027 Nov 2028* > > > > そこに来て半年に1回のマイナーバージョンアップという話を知ってすっかり > > 心が折れました。。。 > > > いろいろ理由はあると思いますが、セキュリティが重視される昨今の状況で半年を > 目安に新しいリリースを出したいということであれば理解できます。 > > その上で、各メジャーバージョンは5年間のサポートが明示されていますが、 > 一つのマイナーバージョンがセキュリティオフィサーによってサポートされる > のは次のリリースが出て3ヵ月しかないので、リリース間隔が半年になっても > ほとんど影響はないですね。私としては。 > > 個人的にはports treeのデフォルトが使い物にならなくなったのが悩みの > 種で、bindを作るのにpythonからXのライブラリまで入れようとするのは > 本当に止めて欲しい。pythonは仕方ないかなと諦めましたけど。 > > -- > motoyuki 実運用環境自体にビルド時だけの依存物（bUILD_DEPENDA）をインストール されたくない、さりとてデフォルトオプションは困るので公式pkgは使えない、 という場合、例えばpoudriereを使用する方法があります。 poudriereはビルドに一時的に生成したjailを使用し、依存物をそこに インストールしてビルド、パッケージを作成したらそのjailはクリア してしまいますので、実運用環境自体への影響は抑えられます。 試したことはありませんが、おそらくsynthやjenkinsのような他のクリーン ルーム方式のビルダーも同様と思います。 自分でpoudriereを使い始めてみるにあたって、当時発見できたドキュメントや 事例だと 　・複数Release用だったり複数アーキティクチャ用だったりと大げさな 　　設定事例がほとんど。 　・ビルドしたパッケージを複数のPCで利用するのが前提の事例ばかりで 　　webサーバを立てるのが前提 　・poudrere専用にOPTIONを保存する前提の事例ばかりで既に実機上で 　　ビルド・インストールしたportsで済ませている設定を無視してしまう 　　事例ばかり ということで1台のPCだけで使えればいいし、全portsのOPTIONの再設定など したくない私の需要に合わなくて（さりとて一部のメンテナはBugzillaでの バグレポートに対してpoudriere等のクリーンルームビルダーでビルドした 場合以外は完全無視してしまう場合もある［スクラッチからビルドする 想定以外の不具合まで相手にしている余裕がない］）あちこちに散らばった 情報からなんとかほぼ使えるようにした構成や運用を 　https://brew.bsd.cafe/TomAoki/Tips-and-Tricks/src/branch/main/poudriere で公開しています。　但し、需要のほぼ全ては海外だろうということもあって 英文のみです。 -- 青木 知明 [Tomoaki AOKI] From nobody Thu Sep 12 00:22:23 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X3ynV5tfqz5Vxrv for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 00:22:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from naito.yuichiro@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pg1-x531.google.com (mail-pg1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) 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List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IEZyZWVCU0Tjga7jg6rjg6rjg7zjgrnjgrXjgqTjgq/jg6vlpIk=?= =?UTF-8?B?5pu044Gr44Gk44GE44Gm?= To: users-jp@freebsd.org References: <20240911.161356.1304132417828656068.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> <84A126A0-A888-46B0-AF7A-3350D214E947@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: non@ever.sanda.gr.jp In-Reply-To: <84A126A0-A888-46B0-AF7A-3350D214E947@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.07 / 15.00]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.979]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[non]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:9371, ipnet:112.78.112.0/20, country:JP]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[users-jp@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sanda.gr.jp]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X3z3s37Gtz4Pvh On 2024/09/12 9:22, Yuichiro Naito wrote: > げんなりしている部分は freebsd-update が遅くてそれを管理している > マシンの台数分やらなきゃいけないのが負担だからなんですよね、きっと。 hackers で freebsd-update が遅いから書き直してみたというのが流れていました。ご参考まで： https://mail-archive.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=144191+0+archive/2024/freebsd-hackers/20240826.freebsd-hackers // 光永 From nobody Thu Sep 12 03:33:50 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-users-jp@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X432s6fPxz5WVhj for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2024 03:34:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomo@peanuts.to) Received: from ishikari.peanuts.to 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<84A126A0-A888-46B0-AF7A-3350D214E947@gmail.com> References: <20240911.161356.1304132417828656068.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> <84A126A0-A888-46B0-AF7A-3350D214E947@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 28 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.34 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.87)[-0.867]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.23)[0.226]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:210.129.88.0/23]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4694, ipnet:210.129.0.0/16, country:JP]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; 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(src$B$OBP>]$K$7$F$$$^$;$s(B) $B!&uBV$G$N:F5/F0$,$"$k(B $B$3$N$h$&$JE@$,$"$k$?$a!"8=:_$O8!>ZMQ$N%^%7%s$G$N$_(Bfreebsd-update$B$rZ%^%7%s$G(BOS$B99?7(B 2. $BG[I[MQ%U%!%$%k(B($B99?7$5$l$?(B/etc$B0J2<$d$=$NB>$N%P%$%J%j!"%i%$%V%i%j(B)$B$rMQ0U(B 3. $B3F%^%7%s$KG[I[MQ%U%!%$%k$rE83+(B 4. $B3F%^%7%s$G99?7$r-MhE*$K(Bpkg$B$G$N4IM}$KJQ99$5$l$?$j!"(Bfreebsd-update$B<+BN$N9bB.2=$H$$$C$?(B $B;n$_$,9T$o$l$F$$$?$j$O$9$k$h$&$G$9$,!"$5$9$,$KG/$r$H$j$^$7$?(B(;_;) From: Yuichiro Naito Subject: Re: FreeBSD$B$N%j%j!<%9%5%$%/%kJQ99$K$D$$$F(B Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2024 09:22:23 +0900 Message-ID: <84A126A0-A888-46B0-AF7A-3350D214E947@gmail.com> > $BFbF#$G$9!#(B > > $B$2$s$J$j$7$F$$$kItJ,$O(B freebsd-update $B$,CY$/$F$=$l$r4IM}$7$F$$$k(B > $B%^%7%s$NBf?tJ,$d$i$J$-$c$$$1$J$$$N$,IiC4$@$+$i$J$s$G$9$h$M!"$-$C$H!#(B > > $B8D?ME*$K$O$=$l$[$IBt;3$N%^%7%s$r4IM}$7$F$$$k$o$1$G$O$J$$$N$H!"(B > $B8D?M$G;H$C$F$$$k%^%7%s$P$+$j$J$N$G!"<+J,$GE,Ev$K99?7%?%$%_%s%0$r(B > $B7h$a$i$l$k$N$G$5$[$IIiC4$K$O;W$C$F$$$^$;$s$,!"Bf?t$,B?$/$F(B > $BB>$N?M$K;H$o$;$F$$$k%^%7%s$r;_$a$k$H$J$k$HLLE]$J$s$@$m$&$J$H(B > $BA[A|$7$F$$$^$9!#(B > > $B$J$s$+>-MhE*$K$O(B freebsd-update $B;_$a$F(B pkg $B$G%Y!<%9%7%9%F%`$b99?7(B > $B$G$-$k$h$&$K$9$k$D$b$j$i$7$$$N$G$9$,!"$$$D$K$J$k$3$H$d$i!#(B > $B$b$7$=$&$J$k$H!"%U%!%$%k$R$H$D$R$H$D$G$O$J$/!"$"$kDxEY$^$H$^$C$?(B > $BC10L$G(B pkg $B%U%!%$%k$r%@%&%s%m!<%I$7$FE83+$K$J$k$O$:$J$N$G!"(B > $B99?7:n6H$O%9%T!<%I%"%C%W$9$k$O$:$G$9!#(B > > $B$=$A$i$K4|BT$7$F$_$k$N$b >> On Sep 11, 2024, at 16:13, zen-freebsd-ml@suzuki.que.ne.jp wrote: >> >> $BNkLZ!w3k>~6h$G$9!#(B >> >> $B5W!9$N(BML$B$X$NEj9F$G$9!#!#(B >> >> $B4VH4$1$J$3$H$K(BFreeBSD$B$N%j%j!<%9%5%$%/%k$,JQ99$5$l$?$3$H$K:rF|5$$E$-$^(B >> $B$7$?(B (;_;) >> >> 13.4$B$H$+8@$C$F$$$k$N$G(B13.3$B$+$i$^$@H>G/$J$N$KJQB'E*$J%j%j!<%9$@$J$!!)$H(B >> $B;W$C$F$$$m$$$m8!:w$7$F$$$?$i(B7$B7n$K:#8e$N%^%$%J!<%P!<%8%g%s$N%j%j!<%9$O(B >> $BH>G/$4$H$K$J$j$^$9$_$?$$$J7hDj$,$5$l$F$$$?$h$&$G$9!#(B >> >> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-July/000143.html >> >> www.freebsd.org$B$N%K%e!<%9%j%j!<%9$K$bFC$K7G:\$O$J$/!"$^$C$?$/5$$E$-$^(B >> $B$;$s$G$7$?!#(B >> >> $B$?$H$($P:#8e$N(B13$B$H(B14$B$N%j%j!<%9M=Dj$O$3$s$J46$8$i$7$$$G$9!#(B >> >> 13$B$H(B14$BH4?h(B >> 13.3: Mar 2024 Dec 2024 >> 13.4: Sep 2024 Jun 2025 >> 13.5: Mar 2025 Apr 2026* >> >> 14.1: Jun 2024 Mar 2025 >> 14.2: Dec 2024 Sep 2025 >> 14.3: Jun 2025 Jun 2026 >> 14.4: Mar 2026 Dec 2026 >> 14.5: Sep 2026 Jun 2027 >> 14.6: Mar 2027 Nov 2028* >> >> $B8=>u(BFreeBSD13.3$B$N%5!<%P!<$,$=$l$J$j$K$"$k$?$a(B1$BBf$E$D(Bfreebsd-update$B$G$N(B >> $B99?7$O8=> $B@_Dj%U%!%$%kEy$OJQ99$NI,MW$J$b$N$N$_G[I[$9$k$3$H$G%P!<%8%g%s%"%C%W$r4J(B >> $BN,2=$7$F$$$^$7$?$,99?7$N:]$K$O$=$l$J$j$K3NG'Ey$bI,MW$G3Z$G$OL5$$!#!#(B >> >> $B$=$3$KMh$FH>G/$K(B1$B2s$N%^%$%J!<%P!<%8%g%s%"%C%W$H$$$&OC$rCN$C$F$9$C$+$j(B >> $B?4$,@^$l$^$7$?!#!#!#(B >> >> Red Hat$B$b%^%$%J!<%P!<%8%g%s%"%C%W$O$"$j$^$9$,!"B?$/$N>l9g$$$D$b$h$j%"%C(B >> $B%W%G!<%H$K;~4V$,$+$+$k$J!"$/$i$$$G@_Dj%U%!%$%k$b$=$3$^$GJQ99$O$J$+$C$?(B >> 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b=Xtu5nuhAeVEvGOkvChnU6TFXDYM13I931pvE3aB0qIsHjq5ITF5JsuUO1x5/GzV+qKeiAhs19l1c94dTT4Jx1VsDDsOjicidXQBaOMdOxcZdhYHoPbdrXS75eMWC+sBIqG5n9Q6AyvILGQmai4n5uZVyBATG3YOmiKxTXBDlU+Q= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; sv.tsnr.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=on-sky.net; s=dkim2024; t=1726236365; bh=BRM4YC8m0fLUV1rdj5k8/s4MzMvQbPiWZb9k/z+gJ/k=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=bAsQQkm1DLbmkXa2CwnkxxbmBpwWa/pqT/TD9sbrM0zm+0sL0axAoWNfgvyMSTe9G LvlyJhDPzUm3w3rPUC16deSFxQUtAo/nOaGL8VYouVFxkLgmdTHEnEszJrOvEg1Vp0 r0w8YGS+Z8kpzmvsQgR79et7n6P0mJIEBYSKqU6w= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------v0rQbh2rgiZ8hmV86VIX4rf0" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2024 23:05:58 +0900 List-Id: Discussion relevant to FreeBSD communities in Japan List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-users-jp List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-users-jp@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-users-jp@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IEZyZWVCU0Tjga7jg6rjg6rjg7zjgrnjgrXjgqTjgq/jg6vlpIk=?= =?UTF-8?B?5pu044Gr44Gk44GE44Gm?= Content-Language: en-US To: users-jp@freebsd.org References: <20240911.161356.1304132417828656068.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> <84A126A0-A888-46B0-AF7A-3350D214E947@gmail.com> <20240913.180613.1836747525119143459.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> From: hideki sakamoto In-Reply-To: <20240913.180613.1836747525119143459.inetd@x.inetd.co.jp> X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.79 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[tsnr.com:s=dkim2024:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[on-sky.net,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:203.181.83.169]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[on-sky.net:s=dkim2024]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.10)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:10013, ipnet:203.181.64.0/19, country:JP]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[on-sky.net:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[users-jp@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X4x1L3cNVz4WV3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------v0rQbh2rgiZ8hmV86VIX4rf0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 坂元です。 月1回の定期保守＋緊急保守（脆弱性対応）といった頻度でFreeBSDを更新する業務をやっています。 いきなり脇道ですが、 > 1. 事前の検証(検証マシンで簡単な動作確認) は、VMwareのスナップショットを活用してトライ＆エラーしているんですが、今回の値上げ騒動でちょっと頭を抱えています(^^; さておき、 > ・処理に時間がかかる > 無負荷に近いマシンでは20分程度で完了するが、相応の負荷のあるマシンで > は30分以上かかる場合もある。 > (srcは対象にしていません) > ・実行時にインタラクションが必要で手順が多い > マイナーバージョンアップの際にも意味があまり無さそうな設定ファイル等 > のマージ処理をやらされる > (/etc/passwdのコメントなど。。) の2点は、screenコマンドを使って並列に実行して時間を短縮しています。具体的には、tcshですと、 ---------- alias rcmd "screen -X at ':#' stuff '\!*\n'" alias nohist 'history -S ~/.hst; \!*; sed \$d ~/.hst | sed \$d > ~/.hst.new; history -L ~/.hst.new;rm -f ~/.hst*' ---------- といったエイリアスと、 ---------- #!/bin/sh _IPL="192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 ...." ← ここに保守対象のIPアドレスを列挙 for _ip in $_IPL do _hn=`dig -x $_ip +short | tail -1 | awk -F'.' '{print $1"."$2}'` if [ -z "$_hn" ] then _hn=$(echo $_ip | awk -F'.' '{print $3"."$4}') fi /usr/local/bin/screen -t ":$_hn" /usr/bin/ssh $_ip done ---------- というスクリプト(prep_bulk.sh)を作っておいて、 ---------- % screen [screen]% prep_bulk.sh ---------- と実行すると、保守対象のウインドウがずらーっと立ち上がるので、 ---------- % rcmd sudo /usr/sbin/freebsd-update upgrade -r 13.3-RELEASE (※ あらかじめ全台にsudoersを仕込んでおく) ---------- で freebsd-updateを一斉に実行し、あとはウィンドウを切り替えてちまちまと作業しています。 どうしても手作業が必要な、いわゆるmergemasterの部分も、 ・ 極力/etc 以下のファイルは原型を保ち、ホスト固有の設定は /usr/local/etc/... 以下のincludeに退避 ・ master.passwd は、/usr/src/etc/master.passwd ファイルの内容に合わせておいて、末尾にローカルなアカウントを記述する といったあたりに気をつければ、ほぼ自動でマージが進み、100台ぐらいの準備が調子が良ければ半日あれば終わる作業になります。 # なぜか /etc/ssh/sshd_config だけどうしても毎回手作業になるのが不満です > ・カーネルのみ更新された状態での再起動がある これは、「FreeBSD Advent Calendar 2016 16日目」の記事に書いた、 https://qiita.com/hs_onsky/items/173dc102cd99d7f838b7#freebsd-update-install--reboot%E3%82%92%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AA%E3%83%97%E3%83%88%E3%81%A7%E8%87%AA%E5%8B%95%E5%8C%96 の、/etc/rc.d/upgrade11 を適宜OSのバージョンに合わせて微調整して、定期保守の時に、 ・ upgrade## スクリプトを/etc/rc.d/ の下にコピー ・ /usr/sbin/freebsd-update install を1回実行 ・ リブート という手順で自動化しています。 OSのメジャーバージョンアップ時は、misc/compatXXX をひとまずインストールして、更新前のバージョン用のpkgでまずは動かし、次回の保守で新しいバージョン用のバイナリで一括更新する、といった二段構えにして1回の保守でのダウンタイムを短くしています。 前述のQiitaの記事の2016年時点でこの手順がほぼ確立していて、以降もバイナリアップデートでのトラブルは経験していないので、10年を超えて保守する場合は、FreeBSDの方がいまだ一日の長ありという評価です。 # ユーザーランドもpoudriereで独自にリポジトリ構築して、顧客に保守計画を提示してバージョン管理しています。 Webシステムの開発や保守もやっているんですが、個人的にLTSモデルな環境がEoLを迎えた時に、言語もDBも移行ノウハウの情報が全くなくて途方に暮れる、という経験をしたことがあるので、いわゆるローリングリリースにはむしろ好意的な印象を持っています。 最後に簡単なものですが、今のリリースサイクルが発表された時に作った保守計画表があったので添付します。 EoLまで粘ると次のバージョンの##.3か、2個先の##.0という選択になるので、コンサバに計画立てると、メジャーバージョンの保守年数は今までと変わらないのがいまいち、という印象でしたが、今と変わらないならまあ継続でいいかなと思っています。 ご参考になれば幸いです。 On 2024/09/13 18:06, zen-freebsd-ml@suzuki.que.ne.jp wrote: > 鈴木＠葛飾区です。 > > 皆様、多数のご意見ありがとうございます。 > お返事が遅くなったことをお詫びします。 > > あまり詳細を書かなかったので分かりづらかったかも知れませんが、代表して > 引用させていただいた内藤さんの内容がだいたい全貌です。 > > コストが高いと思っていることは大きくわけて運用上の問題と、技術的な問題 > に分かれます。 > > 運用上はお客様が利用されるサーバーですので、バージョンアップ時には次の > ような作業を行っています。 > > 1. 事前の検証(検証マシンで簡単な動作確認) > 2. バージョンアップ作業のスケジュール調整 > 3. お客様への事前告知(2週間前)もしくは、スケジュールのご相談 > 4. バージョンアップ作業の準備(後段に詳細) > 5. バージョンアップ実施 > > 今まで何度となく行ってきた作業ですが大きな更新は何度やってもドキドキし > ないことはありません。。。心理的負荷が。。。 > > 技術的な問題についてはfreebsd-updateの仕様に起因することで、通常手順で > 実施した場合次のような点を問題に感じています。 > ・処理に時間がかかる > 無負荷に近いマシンでは20分程度で完了するが、相応の負荷のあるマシンで > は30分以上かかる場合もある。 > (srcは対象にしていません) > ・実行時にインタラクションが必要で手順が多い > マイナーバージョンアップの際にも意味があまり無さそうな設定ファイル等 > のマージ処理をやらされる > (/etc/passwdのコメントなど。。) > ・カーネルのみ更新された状態での再起動がある > > このような点があるため、現在は検証用のマシンでのみfreebsd-updateを実行 > して、各マシンへの配布用のアーカイブを作成して配布、独自スクリプトでの > 更新処理を行っています。 > > 1. 検証マシンでOS更新 > 2. 配布用ファイル(更新された/etc以下やその他のバイナリ、ライブラリ)を用意 > 3. 各マシンに配布用ファイルを展開 > 4. 各マシンで更新を実行 > 4.1 /etc/rc をファイル差し替え用シェルスクリプトに変更 > 4.2 再起動 > 4.3 差し替え用シェルスクリプトが各ファイルをmv、cpして更新、再起動 > 4.5 新しい環境で起動完了 > > 各マシンでのOS更新での停止時間は2分程度で完了しますが、事前の準備は結 > 構手間がかかります。 > > と、いうことで事前の調整・告知などの手間や実施時の心理的負荷というのが > もっとも負担に感じている部分です。 > > 将来的にpkgでの管理に変更されたり、freebsd-update自体の高速化といった > 試みが行われていたりはするようですが、さすがに年をとりました(;_;) > > > From: Yuichiro Naito > Subject: Re: FreeBSDのリリースサイクル変更について > Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2024 09:22:23 +0900 > Message-ID: <84A126A0-A888-46B0-AF7A-3350D214E947@gmail.com> > >> 内藤です。 >> >> げんなりしている部分は freebsd-update が遅くてそれを管理している >> マシンの台数分やらなきゃいけないのが負担だからなんですよね、きっと。 >> >> 個人的にはそれほど沢山のマシンを管理しているわけではないのと、 >> 個人で使っているマシンばかりなので、自分で適当に更新タイミングを >> 決められるのでさほど負担には思っていませんが、台数が多くて >> 他の人に使わせているマシンを止めるとなると面倒なんだろうなと >> 想像しています。 >> >> なんか将来的には freebsd-update 止めて pkg でベースシステムも更新 >> できるようにするつもりらしいのですが、いつになることやら。 >> もしそうなると、ファイルひとつひとつではなく、ある程度まとまった >> 単位で pkg ファイルをダウンロードして展開になるはずなので、 >> 更新作業はスピードアップするはずです。 >> >> そちらに期待してみるのも手かもしれません。 >> >>> On Sep 11, 2024, at 16:13, zen-freebsd-ml@suzuki.que.ne.jp wrote: >>> >>> 鈴木＠葛飾区です。 >>> >>> 久々のMLへの投稿です。。 >>> >>> 間抜けなことにFreeBSDのリリースサイクルが変更されたことに昨日気づきま >>> した (;_;) >>> >>> 13.4とか言っているので13.3からまだ半年なのに変則的なリリースだなぁ？と >>> 思っていろいろ検索していたら7月に今後のマイナーバージョンのリリースは >>> 半年ごとになりますみたいな決定がされていたようです。 >>> >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-announce/2024-July/000143.html >>> >>> www.freebsd.orgのニュースリリースにも特に掲載はなく、まったく気づきま >>> せんでした。 >>> >>> たとえば今後の13と14のリリース予定はこんな感じらしいです。 >>> >>> 13と14抜粋 >>> 13.3: Mar 2024 Dec 2024 >>> 13.4: Sep 2024 Jun 2025 >>> 13.5: Mar 2025 Apr 2026* >>> >>> 14.1: Jun 2024 Mar 2025 >>> 14.2: Dec 2024 Sep 2025 >>> 14.3: Jun 2025 Jun 2026 >>> 14.4: Mar 2026 Dec 2026 >>> 14.5: Sep 2026 Jun 2027 >>> 14.6: Mar 2027 Nov 2028* >>> >>> 現状FreeBSD13.3のサーバーがそれなりにあるため1台づつfreebsd-updateでの >>> 更新は現実的ではないため1台で更新して更新後のバイナリを各マシンに配布、 >>> 設定ファイル等は変更の必要なもののみ配布することでバージョンアップを簡 >>> 略化していましたが更新の際にはそれなりに確認等も必要で楽では無い。。 >>> >>> そこに来て半年に1回のマイナーバージョンアップという話を知ってすっかり >>> 心が折れました。。。 >>> >>> Red Hatもマイナーバージョンアップはありますが、多くの場合いつもよりアッ >>> プデートに時間がかかるな、くらいで設定ファイルもそこまで変更はなかった >>> です(これまで)。 >>> >>> 自分的には最早これまでか、、という感じです。 >>> (2026年の13.5のEOLまでに脱出計画かなぁ。。) >>> >>> みなさんはどうされていますか？？ >>> --- >>> すずき >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> 内藤 祐一郎 >> naito.yuichiro@gmail.com >> >> >> > --------------v0rQbh2rgiZ8hmV86VIX4rf0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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