From nobody Mon Jan 13 00:25:13 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YWY1Z0Qg3z5k7DY for ; Mon, 13 Jan 2025 00:25:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: from www.zefox.net (www.zefox.net [50.1.20.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "pelorus.zefox.org", Issuer "pelorus.zefox.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YWY1Y0WF3z3yfy; Mon, 13 Jan 2025 00:25:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from www.zefox.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 50D0PEPl066440 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 Jan 2025 16:25:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: (from fbsd@localhost) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 50D0PEae066439; Sun, 12 Jan 2025 16:25:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 16:25:13 -0800 From: bob prohaska To: Kyle Evans Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [Bug 273566] stray characters contaminate serial console Message-ID: References: <5e6620f9-ac6c-4a2d-8b9e-2cc1cafc17a4@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5e6620f9-ac6c-4a2d-8b9e-2cc1cafc17a4@FreeBSD.org> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YWY1Y0WF3z3yfy X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7065, ipnet:50.1.16.0/20, country:US] On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 02:04:24PM -0600, Kyle Evans wrote: > On 1/12/25 11:25, bob prohaska wrote: > > > > Just for fun I installed a GENERIC-KASAN kernel on a Pi4 running -current, > > but far as I can tell the problem doesn't exist on aarch64 or I don't know > > how to see it. The Pi4 is providing terminal service to a Pi2 running armv7, > > which since the KASAN kernel went on the Pi4 hasn't suffered a boot > > stoppage. Neither have I seen any console messages on the Pi4 suggesting > > something amiss. I'm guessing kasan simply generates warnings, but if so > > I've not recognized any. I'll keep watching, it would really help to know > > what sort of behavior I'm looking for. > > > > I tried to build a kasan kernel on a pi2 running armv7 but buildworld > > stopped with an unrecognized symbol. It's now building world/kernel with > > GENERIC as a sanity check, but the kasan man page suggests armv7 is > > unsupported. > > > > If in fact armv7 does support kasan then I'll keep trying. Unfortunately > > I have only one kasan-supporting host presently but have couple spare > > Pi2 v1.1 boxes that can run armv7 if it's relevant. > > > > arm64 and amd64 only today OK, so armv7 can't help. If arm64 GENERIC-KASAN does find something amiss will it show up on the serial console or /var/log/messages? Thanks for writing! bob prohaska From nobody Tue Jan 14 08:10:01 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YXMHr1Hrnz5kL70 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 08:10:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from maurizio1018@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YXMHq2NLsz3wS2; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 08:10:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from maurizio1018@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=YJInUSyh; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of maurizio1018@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=maurizio1018@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2ee397a82f6so9038568a91.2; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 00:10:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1736842214; x=1737447014; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=C1TBKd0vmtTmKpteM2g+BcOaHujB8ypTVtv7bPy7cd0=; b=YJInUSyh+8K9JAdeof6TeahXGYZ8y2FzTV+wiltbUZLhmOOsfyC9FtOtO72H4FqFIC ZwbzHYbcCoWkalO/KFoI6B6Ox3km48OAvWRwTdbdp5wbpQRYMMUXzDcJd43QDc4gc1PA Dn7JwbeHpHOSdLEUxrkqL2fIrsP4mI1WHs+7c2OByCwE9bB5C5X0KYebzx2DR9Jz0oU3 KK8Fog90X0z1Z5Q4k4hI+MxivfT+iSvcau84PxOV2Fdn71NwkzCE+Bt1EdBCg9Dvgud2 WYrVgctFruB/caqIza5DwEkHkMM8H+5U6WIMzTspgUGZOh9C+HYIHMEYWfPMOcv96bjY k4pA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736842214; x=1737447014; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=C1TBKd0vmtTmKpteM2g+BcOaHujB8ypTVtv7bPy7cd0=; b=mV+Y0haYjp3eQMDW7g8kfnBJnZFyXZGMQcu5kQmgu9UEMtPRDc/NLPu4qhB5MehFxr 2Ks56QdWlmLgnvaxEI7rQcWS1Zom+oIkEDzx0ad2g9EAlC5I/yk+FwOMEFGw0/hkCe9h PfN+JQ3hqv7hRfZzDLr0dMVm1dP9Px/EpMKF+VA+3JbMUVUktsHFBgbHbZSXKz9gtilw 5BiXOlFdm6RslnqEyXCsrlcesdsIvUDxFpRJRaLPH3qu7bLHiVhF3O1Ss5gU2oxGJCly 7L6loKr6DaM/rqpZsCdK4DQmnXLWYu0lBKW449dM+PZ9s4GAT0sc/3cR51Z4IYg4W9g/ MnSw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwQpVb3A2as5wOPUsusQit4fPcd45ChyEKFZ8m7vawnbxoyXhBw HRhQ65QyRAIocpQLfA0NEwdWwLFIzA7uSy3chB/JTa/gni1hS4oJda20zi68bZh2DOKhYqDOZy0 k3GiUtx77p3xTp/pSkd/sIdL+aZKgq0Ek X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsp1NGxHFsO3d7SvOisX+OGkB25ZqLsC1ZXoa1sHga4s15yJw/xYnJBq/EUzb0 xLZLDFlFP1CoYEf1X16AM00zVxynuRXY1sETq X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFys+dRevOWzpSsWSqzPe/U+Em4RS4CiuhtxNNjj6fAVvVTDPkqHFgPZJ8B94tiZLgaSr0x7/prEVRrHIOpMk8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:5686:b0:2ee:df70:1ff3 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2f548e4d0a7mr41155007a91.0.1736842213643; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 00:10:13 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <79d3921a-a8cf-4daf-936e-6fc6f9634118@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <79d3921a-a8cf-4daf-936e-6fc6f9634118@FreeBSD.org> From: Maurizio Vairani Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 09:10:01 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AbW1kvaNqDsGyCopYeV3qpWUymyLmK-RiOGvRNZGDjlv4JImFNZ4S_SfUBCvQvA Message-ID: Subject: Re: Panic testing ZFS raidz expansion feature. To: Alexander Motin Cc: freebsd-current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002cde5b062ba617e5" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+] X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YXMHq2NLsz3wS2 --0000000000002cde5b062ba617e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Alexander, thank you very much, with your patch it works. -- Maurizio Il giorno ven 10 gen 2025 alle ore 16:08 Alexander Motin ha scritto: > Hi Maurizio, > > I was able to reproduce it on a real hardware. The critical points are > that vdev should have ashift > 9 and it should be a debug build. This > patch fixes it for me: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/16942 . > > On 10.01.2025 03:33, Maurizio Vairani wrote: > > I'm using vm-bhyve-1.5.0_1. The vm-byve package is configured correctly. > > > > # vm iso > > > https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/15.0/FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250109-4c89d59e0cda-274641-bootonly.iso > < > https://download.freebsd.org/snapshots/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/15.0/FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250109-4c89d59e0cda-274641-bootonly.iso > > > > # vm create fbsd15-13 > > # cd /mnt/pool2tb/vm/fbsd15-13 > > In fbsd15-13.conf: > > memory=2G > > # vm install fbsd15-13 > > FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250109-4c89d59e0cda-274641-bootonly.iso > > # vm console fbsd15-13 > > Install the OS and switch off the VM. > > # truncate -s 10G disk1.img > > # truncate -s 10G disk2.img > > # truncate -s 10G disk3.img > > # truncate -s 10G disk4.img > > lines added in fbsd15-13.conf: > > disk1_type="virtio-blk" > > disk1_name="disk1.img" > > disk2_type="virtio-blk" > > disk2_name="disk2.img" > > disk3_type="virtio-blk" > > disk3_name="disk3.img" > > disk4_type="virtio-blk" > > disk4_name="disk4.img" > > # vm start fbsd15-13 > > # vm console fbsd15-13 > > In the VM: > > # zpool create tank raidz1 vtbd1 vtbd2 vtbd3 > > # zpool attach tank raidz1-0 vtbd4 > > panic: VERIFY(vd == vd->vdev_top) failed > > > > cpuid = 0 > > time = 1736497428 > > KDB: stack backtrace: > > db_trace_self_wrapper() at db_trace_self_wrapper+0x2b/frame > > 0xfffffe005469f820 > > vpanic() at vpanic+0x136/frame 0xfffffe005469f950 > > spl_panic() at spl_panic+0x3a/frame 0xfffffe005469f9b0 > > zio_vdev_io_start() at zio_vdev_io_start+0x63a/frame 0xfffffe005469fa00 > > zio_nowait() at zio_nowait+0x10c/frame 0xfffffe005469fa40 > > vdev_check_boot_reserve() at vdev_check_boot_reserve+0x7a/frame > > 0xfffffe005469fa70 > > spa_vdev_attach() at spa_vdev_attach+0x712/frame 0xfffffe005469faf0 > > zfs_ioc_vdev_attach() at zfs_ioc_vdev_attach+0x75/frame > 0xfffffe005469fb30 > > zfsdev_ioctl_common() at zfsdev_ioctl_common+0x49a/frame > 0xfffffe005469fbd0 > > zfsdev_ioctl() at zfsdev_ioctl+0xfb/frame 0xfffffe005469fc00 > > devfs_ioctl() at devfs_ioctl+0xd1/frame 0xfffffe005469fc50 > > vn_ioctl() at vn_ioctl+0xb6/frame 0xfffffe005469fcc0 > > devfs_ioctl_f() at devfs_ioctl_f+0x1e/frame 0xfffffe005469fce0 > > kern_ioctl() at kern_ioctl+0x286/frame 0xfffffe005469fd40 > > sys_ioctl() at sys_ioctl+0x12f/frame 0xfffffe005469fe00 > > amd64_syscall() at amd64_syscall+0x158/frame 0xfffffe005469ff30 > > fast_syscall_common() at fast_syscall_common+0xf8/frame > 0xfffffe005469ff30 > > --- syscall (54, FreeBSD ELF64, ioctl), rip = 0x2f2054f58cca, rsp = > > 0x2f2048e41cf8, rbp = 0x2f2048e41d60 --- > > KDB: enter: panic > > [ thread pid 999 tid 100184 ] > > Stopped at kdb_enter+0x33: movq $0,0x10538d2(%rip) > > db> > > -- > Alexander Motin > --0000000000002cde5b062ba617e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alexander,
thank you ve= ry much, with your patch it works.
--
Maurizio

Il giorno ven 10 gen 2025 alle ore 16:08 Alexander M= otin <mav@freebsd.org> ha scri= tto:
Hi Maurizio= ,

I was able to reproduce it on a real hardware.=C2=A0 The critical points ar= e
that vdev should have ashift > 9 and it should be a debug build.=C2=A0 T= his
patch fixes it for me: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/pull/= 16942 .

On 10.01.2025 03:33, Maurizio Vairani wrote:
> I'm using vm-bhyve-1.5.0_1. The vm-byve package is configured corr= ectly.
>
> # vm iso
> https://download.freebsd.org/snapsh= ots/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/15.0/FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250109-4c89d59= e0cda-274641-bootonly.iso <https:= //download.freebsd.org/snapshots/amd64/amd64/ISO-IMAGES/15.0/FreeBSD-15.0-C= URRENT-amd64-20250109-4c89d59e0cda-274641-bootonly.iso>
> # vm create fbsd15-13
> # cd /mnt/pool2tb/vm/fbsd15-13
> In fbsd15-13.conf:
> memory=3D2G
> # vm install fbsd15-13
> FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250109-4c89d59e0cda-274641-bootonly.iso > # vm console fbsd15-13
> Install the OS and switch off the VM.
> # truncate -s 10G disk1.img
> # truncate -s 10G disk2.img
> # truncate -s 10G disk3.img
> # truncate -s 10G disk4.img
> lines added in fbsd15-13.conf:
> disk1_type=3D"virtio-blk"
> disk1_name=3D"disk1.img"
> disk2_type=3D"virtio-blk"
> disk2_name=3D"disk2.img"
> disk3_type=3D"virtio-blk"
> disk3_name=3D"disk3.img"
> disk4_type=3D"virtio-blk"
> disk4_name=3D"disk4.img"
> # vm start fbsd15-13
> # vm console fbsd15-13
> In the VM:
> # zpool create tank raidz1 vtbd1 vtbd2 vtbd3
> # zpool attach tank raidz1-0 vtbd4
> panic: VERIFY(vd =3D=3D vd->vdev_top) failed
>
> cpuid =3D 0
> time =3D 1736497428
> KDB: stack backtrace:
> db_trace_self_wrapper() at db_trace_self_wrapper+0x2b/frame
> 0xfffffe005469f820
> vpanic() at vpanic+0x136/frame 0xfffffe005469f950
> spl_panic() at spl_panic+0x3a/frame 0xfffffe005469f9b0
> zio_vdev_io_start() at zio_vdev_io_start+0x63a/frame 0xfffffe005469fa0= 0
> zio_nowait() at zio_nowait+0x10c/frame 0xfffffe005469fa40
> vdev_check_boot_reserve() at vdev_check_boot_reserve+0x7a/frame
> 0xfffffe005469fa70
> spa_vdev_attach() at spa_vdev_attach+0x712/frame 0xfffffe005469faf0 > zfs_ioc_vdev_attach() at zfs_ioc_vdev_attach+0x75/frame 0xfffffe005469= fb30
> zfsdev_ioctl_common() at zfsdev_ioctl_common+0x49a/frame 0xfffffe00546= 9fbd0
> zfsdev_ioctl() at zfsdev_ioctl+0xfb/frame 0xfffffe005469fc00
> devfs_ioctl() at devfs_ioctl+0xd1/frame 0xfffffe005469fc50
> vn_ioctl() at vn_ioctl+0xb6/frame 0xfffffe005469fcc0
> devfs_ioctl_f() at devfs_ioctl_f+0x1e/frame 0xfffffe005469fce0
> kern_ioctl() at kern_ioctl+0x286/frame 0xfffffe005469fd40
> sys_ioctl() at sys_ioctl+0x12f/frame 0xfffffe005469fe00
> amd64_syscall() at amd64_syscall+0x158/frame 0xfffffe005469ff30
> fast_syscall_common() at fast_syscall_common+0xf8/frame 0xfffffe005469= ff30
> --- syscall (54, FreeBSD ELF64, ioctl), rip =3D 0x2f2054f58cca, rsp = =3D
> 0x2f2048e41cf8, rbp =3D 0x2f2048e41d60 ---
> KDB: enter: panic
> [ thread pid 999 tid 100184 ]
> Stopped at =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0kdb_enter+0x33: movq =C2=A0 =C2=A0$0,0x= 10538d2(%rip)
> db>

--
Alexander Motin
--0000000000002cde5b062ba617e5-- From nobody Tue Jan 14 20:54:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YXhG55kdHz5kQPp for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 20:54:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f50.google.com (mail-lf1-f50.google.com [209.85.167.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YXhG50GJmz4Ld4 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 20:54:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of adrian.chadd@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=adrian.chadd@gmail.com; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none) Received: by mail-lf1-f50.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-53e3778bffdso6249932e87.0 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:54:52 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736888091; x=1737492891; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=rQaWOIlvz4BzRaNP7TNoTqZpeqtmYFPlvBFz1vbBQ9c=; b=BDgXO5k4bly88B3VMXZfb5TLahJycLU1EAW/17PpVypfXvoL2yVVg1TeDdZAfXwsS0 j3Xr0y39Cnt/1Xh7O37dAQUk3exS8UXzWMrlDk1rh72v37h1tXX/giZOz6iqXrMpqe/D Z83FjsJmhOwheXA+ewpavlyFF8NoERtV5yuwH3tHeAo9e9Fl5qlbBA2gKK8YSKJ5h9Oc BBcda+LXxjKHZ0Bb7JFb16olSfduK3Ys8T219ddIDg0K9Z1P1WAtf9ly2VjxxCIJOsFN xz4K0G8EaIvuNNC4Z078AHLfwvgJSwpM04/1RFHwggl5vrHGK73tCIBvDQP/1g79eD4J V8cw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCU+DkX/ajud79Kb+VMUf1K8sBsAr1lpCRCEdM8Kh8x/O5oZ9Oo2IJ7jotg2FoD9WqE2dBrgwVoLRPWtNMmtomE=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzOLUG3HgvMmW0sSADXHZ2tUthCuEHc2Gx8gPxNzUokTXRb/299 jPLdPMlHUpFMMjFTGoOP9xFIioWBEMTzYPPnlzckTR7TTeEB1sgPpMhpHVmrMw/5KKmGbIqKXSN vYFyRIkc0oI7wfgsGs5oDeAH0U10= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvRHPnbh1kv+uvqRnk5B7Qefa+Ny/Ra8Jw6GTsr/ogr5mptUYl0ZVwMGs/fohz Y0V1hyNora0uTU3sAU/Kc7bH81SCw5yecvJYMV5Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEg2eZsYEJfBnVdPeFAjTZwL2uiM/yqNuFE5LiF1k+yrvnOCUpXzFA1GkyYNspaM48NGsD3A0iu9a9aEhA7Wjg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3f12:b0:542:6366:762a with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-54284545e1bmr7222088e87.25.1736888090545; Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:54:50 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <617a15f6-c3cc-4d56-902f-03ae084c5cd5@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <617a15f6-c3cc-4d56-902f-03ae084c5cd5@app.fastmail.com> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 12:54:39 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AbW1kvYf3pPye_CDDZBxtMdY9qGFQmekT6O01BRQBz4y_nY8wiInJ7iFwfwWkI8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: WIFI compiling error: Can anyone fix it on main branch? To: Dave Cottlehuber Cc: "Chen, Alvin W" , freebsd-current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a6d5a5062bb0c516" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.84 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_SENDERSCORE_REPUT_9(-1.00)[209.85.167.50:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.976]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.965]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[adrian@freebsd.org,adrianchadd@gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,none]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[adrian@freebsd.org,adrianchadd@gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.167.50:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.167.50:from] X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YXhG50GJmz4Ld4 --000000000000a6d5a5062bb0c516 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I did temporarily break -head on some platforms for like 30 minutes like a week ago? Is everything ok now? What was the error? -adrian On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 at 04:17, Dave Cottlehuber wrote: > On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, at 09:39, Chen, Alvin W wrote: > > Thanks! > > > > Internal Use - Confidential > > Hi Alvin, > > Can you share your HEAD commit, & an error message? > > 749b3b2c0629 works fine on my machine, its current as of 2 hours ago. > > A+ > Dave > > --000000000000a6d5a5062bb0c516 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I did temporarily break -head on some platforms for like 3= 0 minutes like a week ago? Is everything ok now?

What wa= s the error?

-adrian

On Tue, 7 Jan 2025 at 04:17, Dave Cottlehuber <dch@skunkwerks.at> wrote:
On Tue, 7 Jan 2025, at 09:39, Che= n, Alvin W wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> Internal Use - Confidential

Hi Alvin,

Can you share your HEAD commit, & an error message?

749b3b2c0629 works fine on my machine, its current as of 2 hours ago.

A+
Dave

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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, The FreeBSD Foundation, sponsored by the Sovereign Tech Agency, is funding work this year which will be affecting the FreeBSD build process, and release building in particular. The main goal is to allow the entire release process to run without special privileges (aka root); subsidiary goals include improving the build process documentation so that release building also doesn't require any special knowledge. The goal is to have this work completed before 15.0. This should not affect users of FreeBSD release images -- the images will look the same regardless of how they are built -- and the effect on people running 'make buildworld buildkernel installkernel installworld' should be minimal. Organizations building products based on FreeBSD which involve changes to the release process will probably need to set aside some time to merge this work into their tree; in particular, if you have local patches to release/*, you can expect to see merge conflicts at some point this year when you run 'git rebase'. If you have any questions or concerns about this work, please don't hesitate to contact me (I might be able to help, or I might pass you along to the Foundation people who are managing this project). -- Colin Percival FreeBSD Release Engineering Lead & EC2 platform maintainer Founder, Tarsnap | www.tarsnap.com | Online backups for the truly paranoid From nobody Wed Jan 15 15:16:58 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YY8js2ZBqz5kG5M for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Received: from mail.oetec.com (mail.oetec.com [108.160.241.186]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.oetec.com", Issuer "E5" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YY8jr4ZG7z3jBc for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:17:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=blastwave.org header.s=default header.b=RnfopVj5; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dclarke@blastwave.org designates 108.160.241.186 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dclarke@blastwave.org; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=blastwave.org Received: from [172.16.35.3] (pool-99-253-118-250.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.253.118.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.oetec.com (8.17.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 50FFGw6x026048 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:17:00 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=blastwave.org; s=default; t=1736954220; bh=1bCci+r0lJJkhOYRxsc6ksANM2jycT1/OnO5nO2DSsY=; h=Date:To:From:Subject; b=RnfopVj5pl8LhJY4CJMQt8s51i6P3nNgurVn+TqfQFum/ZQo9f5qkQA1/xlblcys2 tUCNiryCDBU8HGvg00WAh62EWWmOfuYOvMLSF4ub+FUhC2iC6N9ffEkWpBxDD02K1Y RfCaKPhHkFTOlfpAutuKgH4BJnXOB3YJqoC1jeyFWqPO01+FwwRPznsonMn6ue+uYV y7ReSlPR4ji5nF2nnK/7gbkGlxmQhIpa+sP/4EUwi9yV5oJ80Ivf89ZRx+acKG9MI8 RrTjBHVEQki8YlJT5w3tzMb5qomIf1TWxsZJ6wk0xIIfvuSBwT5nBqi+mSKaq8yY/w w1ESPljsrGcqA== Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:16:58 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: Current FreeBSD Content-Language: en-CA From: Dennis Clarke Subject: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Organization: GENUNIX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-oetec-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-oetec-MailScanner-ID: 50FFGw6x026048 X-oetec-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-oetec-MailScanner-From: dclarke@blastwave.org X-Spam-Status: No X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[blastwave.org,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[blastwave.org:s=default]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[108.160.241.186:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[blastwave.org:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:812, ipnet:108.160.240.0/20, country:CA]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YY8jr4ZG7z3jBc All : Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it exists in source form and one can compile *anything* needed. Am I wrong here? So correct me, with a taser to the left, gently, if I am wrong. Sure, a user can just use whatever packages are being provided by some magic server somewhere in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that dance on the rainbows. Failed: ?? Poudriere lately always says fail. Every day. Every time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag the logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps misled with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a user. This is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not IBM or Red Fat. Why do I always see things like this : Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:09:43 Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even 15.0 ? Every day. [142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] [parallel_build] Queued: 315 Built: 20 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 295 Time: 00:03:39 It will fail. For 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". Fail. So I am happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine. The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over. For a long time now. So then, do I labour under the false assumption that FreeBSD can be, you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human type? Am I lost here ? If the power to serve is just a backend server. Then fine. State that up front and lets drop the whole user stuff into a deep oubliette. -- -- Dennis Clarke RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC UNIX and Linux spoken From nobody Wed Jan 15 16:14:11 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYB0J6P2bz5kKYX for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:14:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-f175.google.com (mail-yb1-f175.google.com [209.85.219.175]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YYB0J31S3z3sWK for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:14:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 6yearold@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yb1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e53c9035003so11394841276.2 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:40 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1736957679; x=1737562479; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=oJtB0d2vfdNLTAg3twdx/6Cfyv6jYikINykZYxCXIDg=; b=bUJZeHFuM9/aUk7vZtVXfdZm6/cwETc08JFx2RH6cj78EfIKGFmuQGgZmXpyI1q87Y BbMDQMlFzoMlYAgbO5zHHJC9vrFqCpDiD6OG8VXVeUs+PM96BPqjJoRcc8+0Ezh42iPx rFqPeNfGr1WEO+FXhc+u/MIrY5XuRrWTFNWPtKj+aeufHyFq+EcfyXKEjaKudR1crVbQ iHQ2+w/KKitTm4WiwycRxXMuaXKgZWoJOpAzSOX7fIZ8JfRFl/JojEDf68cYDW5fyy0k E2irMsQp/3zMhNKrRxHk+9T4bIHKiE6d0lDnYj/JnSUAM5F6tr8BiAHw2uPj/3cebuUO ftBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzhtuRXxgECAcpsFOToWw4FKC/eeGCQDG5QZTrZoK4NeHm4axOS 0ZQuVSVoyzHFOQpJb5V41Kjft+1diFsqftFgYVNSyQE2P84EBFv3ZHQP9DCo6cs= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuk2PHr9tbSi8+WfLzm3V6zwmNC9U9FModAzPaMjll0HXg4f79erMCVkN+kFCA N1BS4HIWuq1KwK5JQCMYsF/ILnz/BUUwpA0egRnwKhoP/ZFTz2ZiuxEwPBSW+U+xETuh7GkSDDM vPW6goGLanpQJggEF0MFvGTc1wA5YWUnfmGQcEosKOOQAheAGhoeS+GOAybtBoZ62xQ2vt0+jrq PKt4v6+SXsksLLDS581PBZ+xPcmQdC2/yJjZJZf4ZzXzxcpYMpbYtmAbpsb4F2mjmTmkxPyb8Ce j1Pnd9fA3eBzzrHBeUr/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFcLOAt2ifwHu36HPT9R7qMoVIJ1OIhxIAjk0zIxMEHHk+S+TBPylifp/gstBdDjT2oXhcYSw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4681:b0:6ef:4b3f:3bc3 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6f531220b53mr281255007b3.16.1736957679456; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb1-f173.google.com (mail-yb1-f173.google.com. [209.85.219.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-6f546e31d9bsm25458417b3.100.2025.01.15.08.14.39 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e3a1cfeb711so10315297276.0 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:2e0e:b0:e56:c350:5977 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e56c350607emr15241295276.49.1736957679086; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 08:14:39 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Gleb Popov Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:14:11 +0300 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AbW1kvatHmcuDw9lwf70gdzzp2JAicbTvNDpQc3MX0YikGg818VlkqWx3spge7g Message-ID: Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? To: Dennis Clarke Cc: Current FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YYB0J31S3z3sWK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 6:17=E2=80=AFPM Dennis Clarke wrote: > > The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long > time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over. It is the usual boring process. If something's not working for you - create a Bugzilla issue, share your logs. You said you have the logs, but didn't share them even in this mail. How're we supposed to help you? From nobody Wed Jan 15 17:14:57 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYCKz5wn3z5kNs0 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 17:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Received: from mail.oetec.com (mail.oetec.com [108.160.241.186]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.oetec.com", Issuer "E5" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YYCKz3FhXz43F0; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 17:15:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [172.16.35.3] (pool-99-253-118-250.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.253.118.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.oetec.com (8.17.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 50FHEvlO029447 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:14:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=blastwave.org; s=default; t=1736961299; bh=ZWQjZ525HB+aGZDBzCs7L162Y4v6hMBS71Lg7VULPV0=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=gByi5rFHTkziQNjAB0pjtXvDxs2iBkCyL0jUACowxKGnKsKxNcuZWEfFgm/8lqjfc 2daWiTOMhOEFJbl42z2/aqQdGVAdVaF5TBfj49WleQwV7K0SgGuGrTtOl9eerCavCk bYHAOtF47FgjGlNfVCJ7+V6Y8B6SPUOr3SHKP0LYn2BlSxAh2TCbw6+OhhTnnzw9+u vmQSi3Emtb367Bt2NzpExScyWZM8HKGoO+C7xSJQCZ4oxJHNGsNmrkmeeGMgrzcru5 5HxERtIDPfzymTMztBzLWx2SnmjvGrP2LOR+zdDyqRl/N2PRoltCsizvb8WnIM3mPL NaTIValzluNxw== Message-ID: <53a09f59-d378-4d33-95b9-7853d18cbc64@blastwave.org> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:14:57 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Content-Language: en-CA To: Gleb Popov Cc: Current FreeBSD References: From: Dennis Clarke Organization: GENUNIX In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-oetec-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-oetec-MailScanner-ID: 50FHEvlO029447 X-oetec-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-oetec-MailScanner-From: dclarke@blastwave.org X-Spam-Status: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YYCKz3FhXz43F0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:812, ipnet:108.160.240.0/20, country:CA] On 1/15/25 11:14, Gleb Popov wrote: > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 6:17 PM Dennis Clarke wrote: >> >> The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long >> time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over. > > It is the usual boring process. If something's not working for you - > create a Bugzilla issue, share your logs. > You said you have the logs, but didn't share them even in this mail. > How're we supposed to help you? > You missed the point. Entirely, passed you in both lanes. -- -- Dennis Clarke RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC UNIX and Linux spoken From nobody Wed Jan 15 19:30:13 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYGLR3j0Sz5kY7x for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:30:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Received: from webmail5.jnielsen.net (webmail5.jnielsen.net [IPv6:2607:f170:34:11::b0]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.freebsdsolutions.net", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YYGLR1Nf3z3Qp9 for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 19:30:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple ([50.207.241.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail5.jnielsen.net (8.17.2/8.17.2) with ESMTPSA id 50FJUNlQ044164 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:30:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) X-Authentication-Warning: webmail5.jnielsen.net: Host [50.207.241.62] claimed to be smtpclient.apple From: John Nielsen Message-Id: <4187986C-3986-4813-91CE-3DA9F599BFC8@jnielsen.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7" List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 12:30:13 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Dennis Clarke To: Current FreeBSD References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YYGLR1Nf3z3Qp9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6364, ipnet:2607:f170:30::/44, country:US] --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Jan 15, 2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke = wrote: >=20 > Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big > three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user > type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a > month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With > FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it exists in source form and one > can compile *anything* needed. Am I wrong here? >=20 > So correct me, with a taser to the left, gently, if I am wrong. >=20 > Sure, a user can just use whatever packages are being provided by some > magic server somewhere in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that > dance on the rainbows. >=20 >=20 > Failed: ?? >=20 > Poudriere lately always says fail. >=20 > Every day. >=20 >=20 > Every time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag = the > logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps = misled > with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a user. = This > is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not IBM or Red = Fat. >=20 > Why do I always see things like this : >=20 > Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 = Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:09:43 >=20 > Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even 15.0 ? Every = day. >=20 > [142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] [parallel_build] Queued: 315 = Built: 20 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: = 295 Time: 00:03:39 >=20 > It will fail. For 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". Fail. >=20 > So I am happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine. >=20 > The whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long > time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over. >=20 > For a long time now. >=20 > So then, do I labour under the false assumption that FreeBSD can be, > you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human type? Am I lost here ? >=20 > If the power to serve is just a backend server. Then fine. State that > up front and lets drop the whole user stuff into a deep oubliette. If you want to get a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the = pre-built packages (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and = unicorns notwithstanding). If you choose to build all of your software locally that is 100% a = supported option but it does put more responsibility on you, the user. = When you get a build failure you are welcome to report it to the = maintainer (listed in every single port file) and/or the appropriate = mailing list (which -current is not, btw). Include the commands you are = running and other configuration details as well as the exact error = output. Note, however, that the automated package build system already emails = port maintainers on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I = don=E2=80=99t see any such reports in the mailing list archives = (https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view = the results of the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also = uses poudriere) by following the instructions here: = https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/ On a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped = ports related to the desktop environments you mentioned. = (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-q= uarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa) I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more troubleshooting on your local system = and provide some better details if you decide to ask for help in an = appropriate forum, such as the freebsd-questions mailing list or the = online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ or the mailing list(s) = listed as maintainers for the ports you are having problems building. Good luck, JN= --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On Jan 15, = 2025, at 8:16=E2=80=AFAM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> = wrote:

=    Over the past month or so I see endless fails in = builds for the big
three user facing window manager things. This = means that a simple user
type person can not get a desktop. Really? = Yes really. For at least a
month or more you can not build KDE5 nor = LXDE nor XFCE desktop. With
FreeBSD there is a trivial idea that it = exists in source form and one
can compile *anything* needed. Am I = wrong here?

    So correct me, with a taser = to the left, gently, if I am wrong.

Sure, a user can just use = whatever packages are being provided by some
magic server somewhere = in a fluffy cloud with coloured unicorns that
dance on the = rainbows.


       Failed: =  ??

       Poudriere = lately always says fail.

=        Every day.


Every = time. For the last month or more and I suspect more if I drag = the
logs out. I do not want to do that. I just am curious and perhaps = misled
with a silly notion that FreeBSD can be used by, you know, a = user. This
is not ubuntu and I am so thankful for that. This is not = IBM or Red Fat.

Why do I always see things like this :

=    Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1  Skipped: 9 =  Ignored: 0  Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0   Time: = 00:09:43

Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even = 15.0 ?  Every day.

[142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] = [parallel_build] Queued: 315 Built: 20  Failed: 0 =   Skipped: 0   Ignored: 0   Fetched: 0 =   Tobuild: 295  Time: 00:03:39

It will fail. For = 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest".  Fail.

So I am = happy to kick this hornets nest. Let the flames begin. Fine.

The = whole desktop user experience is broken and has been for a long
= time. I have the logs. I see the fails. Over and over.

For a = long time now.

So then, do I labour under the false assumption = that FreeBSD can be,
you know, used? By a ... you know ... a human = type?  Am I lost here ?

If the power to serve is just a = backend server. Then fine. State that
up front and lets drop the = whole user stuff into a deep = oubliette.

If you want to get = a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the pre-built packages = (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and unicorns = notwithstanding).

If you choose to build all of = your software locally that is 100% a supported option but it does put = more responsibility on you, the user. When you get a build failure you = are welcome to report it to the maintainer (listed in every single port = file) and/or the appropriate mailing list (which -current is not, btw). = Include the commands you are running and other configuration details as = well as the exact error output.

Note, however, = that the automated package build system already emails port maintainers = on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I don=E2=80=99t see = any such reports in the mailing list archives (https://lists.fr= eebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view the results of = the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also uses poudriere) = by following the instructions here: https://peop= le.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/

On = a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped ports = related to the desktop environments you mentioned. (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/b= eefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-quarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa= )

I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more = troubleshooting on your local system and provide some better details if = you decide to ask for help in an appropriate forum, such as the = freebsd-questions mailing list or the online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ = or the mailing list(s) listed as maintainers for the ports you are = having problems building.

Good = luck,

JN
= --Apple-Mail=_BF274421-0045-462B-AAFA-A66E709C79D7-- From nobody Wed Jan 15 20:33:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYHlv44NPz5kcgG for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 20:34:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Received: from connect.ultra-secure.de (connect.ultra-secure.de [88.198.71.201]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYHlt3zQ9z3bHl for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 20:34:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rainer@ultra-secure.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: (Haraka outbound); Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:34:10 +0100 Received-SPF: SoftFail (connect.ultra-secure.de: domain of ultra-secure.de does not designate 212.71.103.5 as permitted sender) receiver=connect.ultra-secure.de; identity=mailfrom; client-ip=212.71.103.5; helo=smtpclient.apple; envelope-from= Received-SPF: None (connect.ultra-secure.de: domain of smtpclient.apple does not designate 212.71.103.5 as permitted sender) receiver=connect.ultra-secure.de; identity=helo; client-ip=212.71.103.5; helo=smtpclient.apple; envelope-from= Received: from smtpclient.apple ([212.71.103.5]) by connect.ultra-secure.de (Haraka/2.6.2-toaster) with ESMTPSA id 5D585D66-95EB-4E4A-A9ED-6AAA210EC20F.1 envelope-from (authenticated bits=0) (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 verify=NO); Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:34:08 +0100 From: Rainer Duffner Message-Id: <477ED13E-453B-4F64-856C-D433812EDA5D@ultra-secure.de> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5D790D9D-E121-4BC0-A03C-36881E876CAD" List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51.11.1\)) Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:33:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4187986C-3986-4813-91CE-3DA9F599BFC8@jnielsen.net> Cc: Current FreeBSD , Dennis Clarke To: John Nielsen References: <4187986C-3986-4813-91CE-3DA9F599BFC8@jnielsen.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51.11.1) X-Haraka-GeoIP: EU, CH, 451km X-Haraka-ASN: 24951 X-Haraka-GeoIP-Received: 212.71.103.5:CH X-Haraka-ASN: 24951 212.71.96.0/20 X-Haraka-ASN-CYMRU: asn=24951 net=212.71.96.0/20 country=CH assignor=ripencc date=1999-11-18 X-Haraka-p0f: os="Mac OS X " link_type="DSL" distance=14 total_conn=2 shared_ip=N X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on spamassassin X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_SOFTFAIL,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Haraka-Karma: score: 6, good: 3626, bad: 0, connections: 3861, history: 3626, asn_score: 259, asn_connections: 272, asn_good: 259, asn_bad: 0, pass:all_good, asn, asn_all_good, relaying X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YYHlt3zQ9z3bHl X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:88.198.0.0/16, country:DE] --Apple-Mail=_5D790D9D-E121-4BC0-A03C-36881E876CAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Am 15.01.2025 um 20:30 schrieb John Nielsen : >=20 >=20 > If you want to get a desktop up and running quickly then you can use = the pre-built packages (which are signed and verified by default, clouds = and unicorns notwithstanding). >=20 > If you choose to build all of your software locally that is 100% a = supported option but it does put more responsibility on you, the user. = When you get a build failure you are welcome to report it to the = maintainer (listed in every single port file) and/or the appropriate = mailing list (which -current is not, btw). Include the commands you are = running and other configuration details as well as the exact error = output. >=20 > Note, however, that the automated package build system already emails = port maintainers on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I = don=E2=80=99t see any such reports in the mailing list archives = (https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view = the results of the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also = uses poudriere) by following the instructions here: = https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/ >=20 > On a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped = ports related to the desktop environments you mentioned. = (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-q= uarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa) >=20 > I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more troubleshooting on your local system = and provide some better details if you decide to ask for help in an = appropriate forum, such as the freebsd-questions mailing list or the = online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ or the mailing list(s) = listed as maintainers for the ports you are having problems building. >=20 > Good luck, >=20 > JN Recently, chromium got pulled in on my poudriere build as a dependency = of some icinga sub-package. That pulled in llvm19, which took I think 18 or 22 hours on the meager = HP Gen 8 that poudriere is running on. Then, after 24h, the build of chromium was erroring out. I think you need to have reasonably recent and powerful hardware to do a = build of a =E2=80=9Efull=E2=80=9C desktop. My normal build is 20 hours for 2200 or so packages. Most time is spent = on compiling llvm compilers=E2=80=A6. --Apple-Mail=_5D790D9D-E121-4BC0-A03C-36881E876CAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Am = 15.01.2025 um 20:30 schrieb John Nielsen = <lists@jnielsen.net>:


If you want to get a desktop up and running = quickly then you can use the pre-built packages (which are signed and = verified by default, clouds and unicorns = notwithstanding).

If you choose to build all of = your software locally that is 100% a supported option but it does put = more responsibility on you, the user. When you get a build failure you = are welcome to report it to the maintainer (listed in every single port = file) and/or the appropriate mailing list (which -current is not, btw). = Include the commands you are running and other configuration details as = well as the exact error output.

Note, however, = that the automated package build system already emails port maintainers = on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I don=E2=80=99t see = any such reports in the mailing list archives (https://lists.fr= eebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view the results of = the project=E2=80=99s package build system (which also uses poudriere) = by following the instructions here: https://peop= le.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/

On = a recent quarterly build I don=E2=80=99t see any failed or skipped ports = related to the desktop environments you mentioned. (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/b= eefy20/build.html?mastername=3D141amd64-quarterly&build=3D7b2027223baa= )

I=E2=80=99d advise you to do more = troubleshooting on your local system and provide some better details if = you decide to ask for help in an appropriate forum, such as the = freebsd-questions mailing list or the online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ = or the mailing list(s) listed as maintainers for the ports you are = having problems building.

Good = luck,

JN

=

Recently, chromium got pulled in on my poudriere = build as a dependency of some icinga = sub-package.

That pulled in llvm19, which took = I think 18 or 22 hours on the meager HP Gen 8 that poudriere is running = on.

Then, after 24h, the build of chromium was = erroring out.

I think you need to have = reasonably recent and powerful hardware to do a build of a =E2=80=9Efull=E2= =80=9C desktop.

My normal build is 20 hours for = 2200 or so packages. Most time is spent on compiling llvm = compilers=E2=80=A6.


= --Apple-Mail=_5D790D9D-E121-4BC0-A03C-36881E876CAD-- From nobody Wed Jan 15 22:08:14 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYKrm4wbQz5kk6m for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 22:08:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YYKrl3xhwz3lym for ; Wed, 15 Jan 2025 22:08:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (124-18-43-234.area1a.commufa.jp [124.18.43.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 50FM8EMA022806; Thu, 16 Jan 2025 07:08:15 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1736978901; bh=SxeCd1gR4XOPIXakVYWeGrtDOUyM7wuPUR8jX5rYyfE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=Eap4llYetRscfIHoa5ctN+nEFaZOgiHDvfyJamvPc5PgZ5JVxYdD8hPalfNPMUFGn QdllDXFfyVkpTPozNNzXVOrMO/tuyxdQ1z5M3skb72QEdCjt6FhlmX2ob/fUSlDA8e fA+S1FZMgMRiGHnYr0535X8Jd/zLxe4PXiWtK5Mc= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 07:08:14 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Rainer Duffner Cc: John Nielsen , Current FreeBSD , Dennis Clarke Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Message-Id: <20250116070814.49005cec8d50b99636a4b03e@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <477ED13E-453B-4F64-856C-D433812EDA5D@ultra-secure.de> References: <4187986C-3986-4813-91CE-3DA9F599BFC8@jnielsen.net> <477ED13E-453B-4F64-856C-D433812EDA5D@ultra-secure.de> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.2) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YYKrl3xhwz3lym X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:33:55 +0100 Rainer Duffner wrote: > > > Am 15.01.2025 um 20:30 schrieb John Nielsen : > > > > > > If you want to get a desktop up and running quickly then you can use the pre-built packages (which are signed and verified by default, clouds and unicorns notwithstanding). > > > > If you choose to build all of your software locally that is 100% a supported option but it does put more responsibility on you, the user. When you get a build failure you are welcome to report it to the maintainer (listed in every single port file) and/or the appropriate mailing list (which -current is not, btw). Include the commands you are running and other configuration details as well as the exact error output. > > > > Note, however, that the automated package build system already emails port maintainers on build failures and, choosing xfce as an example, I don’t see any such reports in the mailing list archives (https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-xfce/). You can even view the results of the project’s package build system (which also uses poudriere) by following the instructions here: https://people.freebsd.org/~grahamperrin/pkg-status/ > > > > On a recent quarterly build I don’t see any failed or skipped ports related to the desktop environments you mentioned. (https://pkg-status.freebsd.org/beefy20/build.html?mastername=141amd64-quarterly&build=7b2027223baa) > > > > I’d advise you to do more troubleshooting on your local system and provide some better details if you decide to ask for help in an appropriate forum, such as the freebsd-questions mailing list or the online forums at https://forums.freebsd.org/ or the mailing list(s) listed as maintainers for the ports you are having problems building. > > > > Good luck, > > > > JN > > > Recently, chromium got pulled in on my poudriere build as a dependency of some icinga sub-package. > > That pulled in llvm19, which took I think 18 or 22 hours on the meager HP Gen 8 that poudriere is running on. > > Then, after 24h, the build of chromium was erroring out. > > I think you need to have reasonably recent and powerful hardware to do a build of a „full“ desktop. > > My normal build is 20 hours for 2200 or so packages. Most time is spent on compiling llvm compilers…. And succeed/failure of builds strongly depends on which options are selected. If you've changed something, consider restoring them to default as much as possible. More, you'd better look for PRs on Bugzilla for ports failing for you. If you're lucky enough, someone already filed PR and patch and/or preferred options are already proposed (but not yet landed). And in some (limited, though) cases, bare-metal builds (with ports-mgmt/pkg_replace etc.) succeeds but fails on poudriere jails, usually caused by somewhat dependency issue. FYI: x11/mate and x11-wm/xfce4 succeed both poudriere (stable/14) and pkg_replace (main) for me. Some options are changed (or forgotton to chase default option changes as of overlooking), though. The ports tree is on main (aka latest) branch. The hardware probe is as below (old probe, though, so at stable/13 ATM). http://bsd-hardware.info/?probe=676f16ac86 -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Thu Jan 16 02:20:26 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YYRRY68Vdz5l0T0 for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2025 02:20:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic313-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YYRRY05bLz49Rn for ; Thu, 16 Jan 2025 02:20:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=X0vnE5BT; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.65.84 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1736994039; bh=QpOVgmk0gaSqsI8okpTJb1sgge+ZmqJKostndKEExrM=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=X0vnE5BTeGw0SFQYzF4XY0p23hJhxU2XuA8f7yrU8lvP/OvLOUVJkqyWQxSsDIzHA9NboVlQj9ieDvERUQkLFj1Y+xrenY/IfvXdzVGK4McKjTcqYG7q4mWmbzPtGQ/vgS4seVBZdIdjzEtj+BpBfATy0SOk2EmvoRfi4OQhjftj0CygUZGBPn0j+bit09bts8fWMha3Nu40T/FliyR7o8wKtXBUv2senhonAn6sPwOQ8zF6Sg8HLcvadwXxF5Lhfox2k0isv9f52iCnsP/z1rpmV1WFSOqJhM3+qYmj4HO1bPF5L7S3k/YlxUSMpXR9QaQzFlLcrO6uht35hW+h3A== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1736994039; bh=lnHYl+o4ljiGYJND7FkvhKS5ZENDXKcJbGpRrEjb/2k=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=nZN8K2FOkb2d+NCLYoKz7RnP+E/0X0u+co98r3apomDctgEndsP8LWKMfxGBF72WHgT4juzxBTpnq1ekTI2PdCS5waBluOOg4t4HYfiuY0iKLAcs8U+ptqgTi1NAOX+Ep11shgqop88DHDEQoeC8jTZzTo2n5SO36mvtJhdz6UgtAulZ/VMhV4kJ8BVY7o6T21myqchuKXT9x2R/2um83CyfN/wW9yMM/b1yxj4K3+etDjWjPF0L/gP4UBTc7EaOAEkBEoB6iL+O0UDSQx7Y1dF8fxg0HFDXunB4NJq3cvPSLQzGZkmgt9ynUZoNTslCkEkY57hQd+QWJIxEtnYkUg== X-YMail-OSG: oOT1I90VM1lR4ucB94bB_SzdKML4z.1ai0CMjdJAuDxgIgIa94XWRC25tHyW39O EOJ4sm0iTvVn00XAjLZc7kW.ArPmtn3RG.uyIDLVNFwF9feL6dWw6usX6Q8zEwqdD0RqArGOqNzN ndNs_3NKycjLkNhoPphbnPKlKXxGeKcOe6xuU7PMQEgzTZOE1oQa2kBo5teK6lNG5rbEBEjn9RG5 SNgVAMeglYEm81Xlt670QwOTle.YPWbECN3thDwJBrz2KxpbkLsXtFF8evyOsoi..nVxHZjZCTal LEw4FVwHNYPISzDSSRJBaIAW2dgtkj6bEjpQyrDL6yAk8PUm_IwwHV4m6qTLkBNohVzlDB47m2f7 Z4jkwqB5MeERwD5hhGstR8J8f6R7oH_wGcEFe_vDmJbPCEln0IIvq2P5x7GQ2PmRGr7tDAbxj_1q W2loJ_TsU8K3j_sY0vfV4BoC.gbL116CVpR8d74zagaSR7pDDYTV0uknDdDuqKFn7ZDIaStlB6lF X1fRLHfQ6trRWHJYz5XmWJz2.wxLN6ugenacVtESGgH8k0xayxwvlyE623YPwfpG8c0wX11pAvVw EhvVZ8ya1jyT4b2CzctNCArjWBoZt73IReIdYGAGpwJtFysmQK_d7p5vYjFKckQ6nKZeRhLAehoW WvrZe_WdoMhWz5G6FwPiLZMS4hlcMJTgWgO5euH434oe_qKiPjtJH.7Ig7HTcX0oMPxV.s9BB7kV kFP_8fMjEqneWyeoMHj88_Naj_LQ92NZCKWeNrsECOHC0tbw1cyXYoJrZns3uOJ38YKDfkqSk4QL fSLsPeLqeOwKovq7iMpkYxqON687omx_W.zOPt55zFDNBD3TVf1IvAbKavC4o7kItyaznrHbw36p 4WGewTbDhLhcPOc3v460r_ZEq4vqWGZTIDnFMXZSewLl_xmwLMD9xEODtj1E1k.QLB2hZyV13j6W fmd9bexLlyCa..Ak6_.fiQvsPWpUCBDzFEM58aXhfbp6TZIS0EEqO1J1K4VLfnrpvqBesYUuchbs rTwiFr5pac.o4EqmRDemG3wcz_2m__x8rw3LFgDnhtmh_uBqn4dMhvIOz9D7PAEBLNGnBd5th9Zi jo0dB7hZzFUA762150yAL6ohf3olxJ2G2p3Pj8oS8VrFN3BH.6PWUPH8kKTmu7iMrS.wvJRDfv6S 4v1VbyVlhf2IQui1N67fSk3Z9mCjscBRhAf_bJ1xHwS1Telz3C531FGJ9SpROeX65LXonmDr7aSx d3MOARpyXsVgKYVkvA89wWxS2pkbs2cA4FFjNDji6kWyuAQO_1cEbLd67qFaJaBR_ANfMxmwCr5q lK36IUM5ecSbTmcX92LSbxfBDLvawkVhhIVUA9XKzWuQb4sD74a3msX9Tcx1XdZwrKetxt7By6VI 9Jn5DW8OA8QVMgJhBZnuiNCsqZ7.4e5LaVcsmG2J_Zva7xD2GRHDK6ujpttJVYxDk7Re2ocGA_pk DobW5kmY.PzzC6o7UfeXrQEh37GreMoR.viRHXJNKu2W.fWnvSXUuk.d8pKzWSV5aDfzKSuFk8MT _bTBwqf2oj39pokREQjBdqecPG6ypZqbVE1yoDQDCvw0bdOcYl7BmzbRqXxLsiuoIO2QYTiBKeAT rNaOmGuH9Ug4KYSigMx6dIzhlJDpC0BpfHBj9664OsyDpbFMcrG3Fdk4twqWh82PzBnDfNXltNrZ Y0TLZyppft.332RntcFqnLv_VVdFlHjyY.OEyRIq0RQYNfR4qW7VPLDbJjg9JmbXUIb5bxK1Z7KI KpTccOKuvEDDZAiaQzZJYxCbpqSdI.hmBXYxX84vnq9lBzRyilU.1GPHXaujPLQj98gez.OHpS9t 2tzNAUBUkp5LeN_OkQY9gohPQr9T9HavE9RGFmO32HLW02LHIDBC6xL3RZBoY.vFICoypR92VVma VXzKKtyiHkiXaZryeEPbRSlqASlDDmKl631Z2D9QAMiCxxcqfFyHMk0YXf7x4Vud29ySNOB1u97k 7aPdmrm.bT0hgWYeC_kQ27vb0iZcvTYHjEdxYi1Yh5iTNmtmc4VFM6v1ec46e9GEPtidrBLchExJ zr6FBxynh8DBZKfwweZB5jy9plcam7PjIyVaNbYojS6PDEjf9UAO6UAX9fwmSIC5xseZt8EoXatg quiWBjg12uQX07yAYFYnlL0WKsxKobSQOz3IPAa.ilqmslJHmvcXa2uKNs7ib8RVqDYBf8RGwBTe WBKqH5oBUp7H.ix2OwAcbMCtnq52bbxmUofwPOar6IcwEPnb1UhDPCJOvVEPGsbBFjfg- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 5a62eb99-460a-4c20-a054-15dcbf552ff8 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jan 2025 02:20:39 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-5dd4b47f46-dvwsq (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 01dc4f536a42b0a4cc5158859353a233; Thu, 16 Jan 2025 02:20:37 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.300.87.4.3\)) Subject: RE: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Message-Id: Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 18:20:26 -0800 To: Dennis Clarke , FreeBSD Current X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.300.87.4.3) References: X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; RBL_SENDERSCORE_REPUT_9(-1.00)[98.137.65.84:from]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.84:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.84:from] X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YYRRY05bLz49Rn Dennis Clarke wrote on Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:16:58 UTC : > Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big > three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user > type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a > month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. . . . Here you seem to have leaped from your context's bulk build problems to most everyone else's bulk builds of similar software having similar bulk build problems. (Since Jan-7 I'm I'm temporarily without access to the FreeBSD systems that I normally do. Also, I do not normally build those specific ports. So I do not have evidence about those from my own activities.) > . . . > > Why do I always see things like this : Just rhetorical? (See more later.) > Queued: 31 Built: 21 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 > Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:09:43 > > Every day. Over and over. For 14.2 and 13.4 and even 15.0 ? Every day. > > [142amd64-latest] [2025-01-15_15h06m30s] [parallel_build] Queued: 315 > Built: 20 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: > 295 Time: 00:03:39 > > It will fail. For 2025Q1 or 2024Q4 or whatever is "latest". Fail. > > . . . I've not seen anything presented that might allow someone to help improve what happens in your context --or even to test if they can specifically reproduce any of your builds' specific failures, not even if they can match which ports blocked the potentially more overall builds. The note reads more as an expression of furstation than anything else, no attempt at getting help. Or, maybe, an attempt, in part, to see how many "me too" responses show up. The note was sent to freebsd-current. I'm not sure if I should read someting into that or not. Nothing hints at the platform(s) used vs. not or that fail vs. not. Prior to my FreeBSD use stopping on 2025-Jan-7, bulk builds that I had done worked fine. But it is likely to be a rather different workload vs. yours. Looking at the FreeBD package builders, I do see latest for main armv7 having: x11/kde5 being blocked by libfido2-1.15.0 x11-wm/xfce being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 x11/xfce4-goodies being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 x11/xfce4-terminal being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 But I did not see LXDE being blocked. I did not see such blocks for amd64 or arm64. Where I do see all of KDE5, LXDE, and XFCE blocked is by rust-1.81.0 in: 134releng-armv7-quarterly 141releng-armv7-quarterly For 141releng-armv7-default (a.k.a. latest): x11/kde5 being blocked by qt5-webengine-5.15.18p5_1 x11-wm/xfce being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 x11/xfce4-goodies being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 x11/xfce4-terminal being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 But I did not see LXDE being blocked. Note: So far, 134releng-armv7-default had a very early, global build failure where nothing built. But I've no clue if any of this matches your example build failures. === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Fri Jan 17 17:42:38 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZRrj1Ycdz5lFdM for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 17:42:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: from www.zefox.net (www.zefox.net [50.1.20.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "pelorus.zefox.org", Issuer "pelorus.zefox.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZRrh2KQhz3WYV for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 17:42:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fbsd@www.zefox.net has no SPF policy when checking 50.1.20.27) smtp.mailfrom=fbsd@www.zefox.net; dmarc=none Received: from www.zefox.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 50HHgc1k087213 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:42:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: (from fbsd@localhost) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 50HHgceD087212; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:42:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 09:42:38 -0800 From: bob prohaska To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Cc: bob prohaska Subject: FreeBSD on a Lenovo T400s, GUI suggestions needed Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.08 / 15.00]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980]; WWW_DOT_DOMAIN(0.50)[]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7065, ipnet:50.1.16.0/20, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zefox.net]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record] X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZRrh2KQhz3WYV I've started playing with an old Lenovo T400s laptop using FreeBSD-current. The initial install worked perfectly on an external USB drive. Can anybody suggest a suitable X11-wm to try on this quite elderly laptop? LXQT failed with a core dump, next I'll try twm while hoping for a better suggestion. Thanks for reading, bob prohaska From nobody Fri Jan 17 18:15:15 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZSZj6WVWz5lHdh for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:15:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZSZj4Fp1z3c9T for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:15:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B3308928E; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:15:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 50HIFFmC010561; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:15:15 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202501171815.50HIFFmC010561@critter.freebsd.dk> To: bob prohaska cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on a Lenovo T400s, GUI suggestions needed In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <10559.1737137715.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:15:15 +0000 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZSZj4Fp1z3c9T X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU] -------- bob prohaska writes: > Can anybody suggest a suitable X11-wm to try on this quite > elderly laptop? LXQT failed with a core dump, next I'll try > twm while hoping for a better suggestion. ctwm ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. From nobody Fri Jan 17 18:29:59 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZSvt2BRGz5lJJL for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:30:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thor@irk.ru) Received: from mail.irk.ru (relay2.dsi.ru [195.206.40.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZSvr5JWwz3gVg for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:30:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thor@irk.ru) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of thor@irk.ru designates 195.206.40.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=thor@irk.ru; dmarc=none Received: from [94.154.80.101] (port=47343 helo=[192.168.1.245]) by mail.irk.ru with esmtpa (Exim 4.86 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1tYr6d-000PCT-Sc for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 02:30:07 +0800 Message-ID: <75dede5e-8dab-4c95-8eaa-53a2d6000d39@irk.ru> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 02:29:59 +0800 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: FreeBSD on a Lenovo T400s, GUI suggestions needed To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Thor Ablestar In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.32 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.86)[-0.864]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.77)[-0.774]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.58)[-0.580]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8345, ipnet:195.206.32.0/19, country:RU]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[irk.ru]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZSvr5JWwz3gVg Hello! I have a park of Lenovos X61 Tablet and T61. They are predecessors of T400s. I use XFCE4. You need 8 GB RAM for comfortable operation. Internet mentions that it's possible. 4GB is too small. According to my experience the GUI problems usually lie in video driver and not the window manager, so the tuning process begins with vesa driver. It works slowly, sometimes it gives low resolution but it at least somehow works almost always. Also you should expect some (or lot of) troubles from KMS driver that is required by T400s Intel GMA video driver. I have wasted some $1000 on similar problems with Radeon. For Geforce I needed drivers version 370. Hope it helps. And BTW. According to my experience FreeBSD does not react to power button. No idea why. Anatoly On 1/18/25 01:42, bob prohaska wrote: > I've started playing with an old Lenovo T400s laptop using > FreeBSD-current. The initial install worked perfectly on an > external USB drive. > > Can anybody suggest a suitable X11-wm to try on this quite > elderly laptop? LXQT failed with a core dump, next I'll try > twm while hoping for a better suggestion. > > Thanks for reading, > > bob prohaska > > From nobody Fri Jan 17 18:30:44 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZSwZ4X30z5lJLX for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:30:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Received: from mail.oetec.com (mail.oetec.com [108.160.241.186]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.oetec.com", Issuer "E5" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZSwY1Pkyz3hST for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:30:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=blastwave.org header.s=default header.b=PrkJ3IP2; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dclarke@blastwave.org designates 108.160.241.186 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dclarke@blastwave.org; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=blastwave.org Received: from [172.16.35.3] (pool-99-253-118-250.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [99.253.118.250]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.oetec.com (8.17.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 50HIUjgJ091090 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:30:46 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from dclarke@blastwave.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=blastwave.org; s=default; t=1737138647; bh=/dREGveCOh165HmkpxaxmrU4xcr48zfM4tjHyhHhhVY=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=PrkJ3IP2DWBYTbW5IkmbXueemzn5oMHbEN7zLWJLtp2v3OjnmGE4D3T8KiI8OVFAI NB3WGwbgNGeX9M0XYTG12Qmp4WknWYHCws4iwyxj7jk89aD2uN6TfySwfOa4o9bQ0K dOh/0f+dtgv2daCF/Ss6E8LJS0/2rptpA8VHTSB8tx9BCwL8paOH0tZ3uZXX0B5bNU 669yXiHNOAHHjEu1y1hHBOG9eBEo3JEYNd+LxNj4p6jsiUCdtlPYT0gaEujWpqWvLA FX41d2vDdWkhnRmuKmdEatBMAqTaR+KebUmJ5YtSZLNVljhHmxWszLwnXDebD/vkzA GoG1uAeW7SgXA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 13:30:44 -0500 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Content-Language: en-CA To: Mark Millard , FreeBSD Current References: From: Dennis Clarke Organization: GENUNIX In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-oetec-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-oetec-MailScanner-ID: 50HIUjgJ091090 X-oetec-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-oetec-MailScanner-From: dclarke@blastwave.org X-Spam-Status: No X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.970]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW_WITH_FAILURES(-0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[108.160.241.186:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[blastwave.org,quarantine]; R_DKIM_REJECT(0.00)[blastwave.org:s=default]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com,freebsd.org]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[blastwave.org:-]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:812, ipnet:108.160.240.0/20, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+] X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZSwY1Pkyz3hST On 1/15/25 21:20, Mark Millard wrote: > Dennis Clarke wrote on > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:16:58 UTC : > >> Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big >> three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple user >> type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least a >> month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. . . . > > Here you seem to have leaped from your context's bulk build > problems to most everyone else's bulk builds of similar > software having similar bulk build problems. > I apologize for the rant. Clearly a rant. Pure frustration as I try to do some testing of the big RELEASE stuff from 13.4 up to 15-CURRENT. It was a hand waving rant wherein I have seens build failures for weeks and weeks and it really feels like a hit or miss throw a dart good luck and spin the wheel maybe you are a winner today situation. > (Since Jan-7 I'm I'm temporarily without access to the FreeBSD > systems that I normally do. Also, I do not normally build those > specific ports. So I do not have evidence about those from my > own activities.) > I have plenty of logs. Piles of them. Perhaps the problem is that I am building on a 15-CURRENT machine which has poudriere jails like so : titan# poudriere jails -l JAILNAME VERSION ARCH METHOD TIMESTAMP PATH 134amd64 13.4-RELEASE-p2 1304000 3f40d5821eca amd64 git+https 2025-01-10 10:42:08 /poudriere/jails/134amd64 142amd64 14.2-RELEASE 1402000 c8918d6c7412 amd64 git+https 2024-12-03 12:50:29 /poudriere/jails/142amd64 140amd64 14.2-STABLE 1402501 e6de39be80e2 amd64 git+https 2025-01-13 21:36:43 /poudriere/jails/140amd64 150amd64 15.0-CURRENT 1500030 amd64 src=/usr/src 2025-01-12 07:44:29 /poudriere/jails/150amd64 titan# The one called 140stable is a bit strange given that I built it with the branch called "releng" for 14 and what I get is 14.2-STABLE. Whatever that is. I had the silly notion that something called "STABLE" is a good place to build packages. A stable is where one may keep horses. Maybe goats. Other than that I really do not know if building packages in that jail would be of any value compared to the 142amd64 jail. Who knows? I surely do not. I tend to kick off something like this : titan# ls -lApbtr /poudriere/data/packages/ total 60 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 15 21:40 134amd64-latest/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 07:20 150amd64-2025Q1/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 07:23 140amd64-2025Q1/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 10:15 142amd64-latest/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 10:36 142amd64-2025Q1/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 14:00 150amd64-latest/ drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 14:09 134amd64-2025Q1/ titan# titan# /usr/bin/time -p idprio 0 poudriere bulk -r -j 140amd64 -p 2025Q1 -f /root/pkg.list [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done [00:00:00] Mounting system devices for 140amd64-2025Q1 [00:00:01] Stashing existing package repository [00:00:01] Mounting ccache from: /var/cache/ccache [00:00:01] Mounting ports from: /poudriere/ports/2025Q1 [00:00:01] Mounting packages from: /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1 [00:00:01] Mounting distfiles from: /poudriere/distfiles /etc/resolv.conf -> /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/etc/resolv.conf [00:00:01] Starting jail 140amd64-2025Q1 Updating /var/run/os-release done. [00:00:01] Will build as nobody:nobody (65534:65534) [00:00:01] Logs: /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-16_14h18m02s [00:00:01] Loading MOVED for /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/usr/ports [00:00:02] Ports supports: FLAVORS SUBPACKAGES SELECTED_OPTIONS [00:00:02] Inspecting ports tree for modifications to git checkout... no [00:00:03] Ports top-level git hash: 1bbe39c25 [00:00:03] Gathering ports metadata [00:00:08] Calculating ports order and dependencies [00:00:10] Trimming IGNORED and blacklisted ports [00:00:10] Sanity checking the repository [00:00:10] Checking packages for incremental rebuild needs [00:00:13] Deleting rsync-3.4.0.pkg: new version: 3.4.1 [00:00:14] Deleting mariadb1011-server-10.11.10_1.pkg: missing dependency: rsync-3.4.0 [00:00:14] Deleting mariadb114-server-11.4.4.pkg: missing dependency: rsync-3.4.0 [00:00:15] Deleting stale symlinks... done [00:00:15] Deleting empty directories... done [00:00:15] Unqueueing existing packages [00:00:16] Unqueueing orphaned build dependencies [00:00:16] Sanity checking build queue [00:00:16] Processing PRIORITY_BOOST [00:00:16] Balancing pool [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-16_14h18m02s] [balancing_pool] Queued: 13 Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 13 T ime: 00:00:15 [00:00:16] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done [00:00:16] Building 13 packages using up to 13 builders [00:00:16] Hit CTRL+t at any time to see build progress and stats [00:00:16] [01] [00:00:00] Builder starting [00:00:16] [02] [00:00:00] Builder starting [00:00:16] [01] [00:00:00] Builder started [00:00:16] [01] [00:00:00] Building x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 [00:00:16] [02] [00:00:00] Builder started [00:00:16] [02] [00:00:00] Building net/rsync | rsync-3.4.1 [00:00:26] [02] [00:00:10] Finished net/rsync | rsync-3.4.1: Success [00:00:26] [02] [00:00:00] Building databases/mariadb114-server | mariadb114-server-11.4.4 [00:00:26] [03] [00:00:00] Builder starting [00:00:27] [03] [00:00:01] Builder started [00:00:27] [03] [00:00:00] Building databases/mariadb1011-server | mariadb1011-server-10.11.10_1 [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Finished x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2: Failed: build [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11/libxfce4windowing | libxfce4windowing-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0 _2 failed [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-fm/thunar | thunar-4.20.1: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4 | xfce-4.20: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-desktop | xfce4-desktop-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 fa iled [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping deskutils/xfce4-notifyd | xfce4-notifyd-0.9.6_1: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_ 2 failed [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-panel | xfce4-panel-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping sysutils/xfce4-power-manager | xfce4-power-manager-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnc k3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-session | xfce4-session-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 fa iled [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-wm | xfce4-wm-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:02:51] [02] [00:02:25] Finished databases/mariadb114-server | mariadb114-server-11.4.4: Success [00:02:52] [03] [00:02:25] Finished databases/mariadb1011-server | mariadb1011-server-10.11.10_1: Success [00:02:53] Stopping 13 builders [00:02:54] Creating pkg repository Creating repository in /tmp/packages: 100% Packing files for repository: 100% [00:03:12] Committing packages to repository: /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1/.real_1737037274 via .latest symlink [00:03:12] Removing old packages [00:03:12] Built ports: net/rsync databases/mariadb114-server databases/mariadb1011-server [00:03:12] Failed ports: x11-toolkits/libwnck3:build [00:03:12] Skipped ports: deskutils/xfce4-notifyd sysutils/xfce4-power-manager x11-fm/thunar x11-wm/xfce4 x11-wm/xfce4-desktop x11-wm/xfce4- panel x11-wm/xfce4-session x11-wm/xfce4-wm x11/libxfce4windowing [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-16_14h18m02s] [committing] Queued: 13 Built: 3 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:03:11 [00:03:12] Logs: /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-16_14h18m02s [00:03:12] Cleaning up [00:03:12] Unmounting file systems real 192.36 user 518.74 sys 219.50 titan# Then straight away after that : titan# /usr/bin/time -p idprio 0 poudriere bulk -r -j 140amd64 -p 2025Q1 -f /root/pkg.list [00:00:00] Updating portstree "2025Q1" with git+https... done [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done [00:00:00] Mounting system devices for 140amd64-2025Q1 [00:00:00] Stashing existing package repository [00:00:00] Mounting ccache from: /var/cache/ccache [00:00:00] Mounting ports from: /poudriere/ports/2025Q1 [00:00:00] Mounting packages from: /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1 [00:00:00] Mounting distfiles from: /poudriere/distfiles /etc/resolv.conf -> /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/etc/resolv.conf [00:00:00] Starting jail 140amd64-2025Q1 Updating /var/run/os-release done. [00:00:00] Will build as nobody:nobody (65534:65534) [00:00:00] Logs: /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-17_07h00m48s [00:00:00] Loading MOVED for /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/usr/ports [00:00:01] Ports supports: FLAVORS SUBPACKAGES SELECTED_OPTIONS [00:00:01] Inspecting ports tree for modifications to git checkout... no [00:00:02] Ports top-level git hash: ea08b2ed7 [00:00:02] Gathering ports metadata [00:00:07] Calculating ports order and dependencies [00:00:09] Trimming IGNORED and blacklisted ports [00:00:10] Sanity checking the repository [00:00:10] Checking packages for incremental rebuild needs [00:00:13] Deleting stale symlinks... done [00:00:13] Deleting empty directories... done [00:00:13] Unqueueing existing packages [00:00:14] Unqueueing orphaned build dependencies [00:00:14] Sanity checking build queue [00:00:14] Processing PRIORITY_BOOST [00:00:15] Balancing pool [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-17_07h00m48s] [balancing_pool] Queued: 10 Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 10 Time: 00:00:14 [00:00:15] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done [00:00:15] Building 10 packages using up to 10 builders [00:00:15] Hit CTRL+t at any time to see build progress and stats [00:00:15] [01] [00:00:00] Builder starting [00:00:15] [01] [00:00:00] Builder started [00:00:15] [01] [00:00:00] Building x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Finished x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2: Failed: build [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11/libxfce4windowing | libxfce4windowing-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-fm/thunar | thunar-4.20.1: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4 | xfce-4.20: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-desktop | xfce4-desktop-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping deskutils/xfce4-notifyd | xfce4-notifyd-0.9.6_1: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-panel | xfce4-panel-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping sysutils/xfce4-power-manager | xfce4-power-manager-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-session | xfce4-session-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-wm | xfce4-wm-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed [00:00:33] Stopping 10 builders [00:00:33] Creating pkg repository Creating repository in /tmp/packages: 100% Packing files for repository: 100% [00:00:52] Committing packages to repository: /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1/.real_1737097300 via .latest symlink [00:00:52] Removing old packages [00:00:52] Failed ports: x11-toolkits/libwnck3:build [00:00:52] Skipped ports: deskutils/xfce4-notifyd sysutils/xfce4-power-manager x11-fm/thunar x11-wm/xfce4 x11-wm/xfce4-desktop x11-wm/xfce4-panel x11-wm/xfce4-session x11-wm/xfce4-wm x11/libxfce4windowing [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-17_07h00m48s] [committing] Queued: 10 Built: 0 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 Time: 00:00:51 [00:00:52] Logs: /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-17_07h00m48s [00:00:52] Cleaning up [00:00:52] Unmounting file systems real 52.84 user 183.75 sys 123.83 titan# I see things like that ALL the time. Daily. >> . . . >> >> Why do I always see things like this : > > Just rhetorical? (See more later.) > Sort of. Yes. I think the specifics are just pine needles on the little trees in a big big forest. Some are going to be dead and fall away. Some will need a bit of trimming on some of the trees. That is the nature of the forest. However I have been looking at poudriere build failures for weeks. Right, it is the holidays and so I do not expect much and really should not. I don't. > > I've not seen anything presented that might allow someone to help > improve what happens in your context --or even to test if they can > specifically reproduce any of your builds' specific failures, not > even if they can match which ports blocked the potentially more > overall builds. > > The note reads more as an expression of furstation than anything > else, no attempt at getting help. Or, maybe, an attempt, in part, > to see how many "me too" responses show up. I was mostly dipping my toes in the water and waiting for the usual flames. I have been doing something or other related to software package stuff for a while now. I am not surprised when things go sideways a bit. I am, yes, frustrated when building the big three window manager bits and some database tools falls over. Daily. Weekly. > > The note was sent to freebsd-current. I'm not sure if I should > read someting into that or not. Well, not sure else what/where to do what? I figure a 15.0-CURRENT machine is what one would need to build with. Certainly for every reasonable version from 13.4 upwards. Just a guess but I think that is what would need. > > Nothing hints at the platform(s) used vs. not or that fail > vs. not. > > Prior to my FreeBSD use stopping on 2025-Jan-7, bulk builds that > I had done worked fine. But it is likely to be a rather different > workload vs. yours. Yep likely. I have a package list of stuff and it usually rounds out to a grand whopping 1500+ things. Never more than 1600. Not ever. > > Looking at the FreeBD package builders, I do see latest for > main armv7 having: > > x11/kde5 being blocked by libfido2-1.15.0 > x11-wm/xfce being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 > x11/xfce4-goodies being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 > x11/xfce4-terminal being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 Well, that is armv7? I am looking at AMD64 on a Xeon machine. More or less AMD64 or x86_64 depending on whose church we sit in. > > But I did not see LXDE being blocked. > > I did not see such blocks for amd64 or arm64. > > Where I do see all of KDE5, LXDE, and XFCE blocked > is by rust-1.81.0 in: > Funny. I have rust built on RISC-V : enceladus$ uname -apKU FreeBSD enceladus 15.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 15.0-CURRENT #2 main-n274434-2e09cef8dc6f: Sun Dec 29 05:26:22 GMT 2024 root@enceladus:/usr/obj/usr/src/riscv.riscv64/sys/SIFIVE-COMPAT11 riscv riscv64 1500029 1500029 enceladus$ enceladus$ rustc --version rustc 1.83.0 (90b35a623 2024-11-26) (built from a source tarball) enceladus$ However that is a wild red herring. Pay no attention to that. > But I've no clue if any of this matches your example > build failures. > I am thankful for the reply. I am curious. Given a hundred users of FreeBSD the question would be how many build stuff themselves? The numbers may be shockingly low. I have no idea. I am just guessing. -- -- Dennis Clarke RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC UNIX and Linux spoken From nobody Fri Jan 17 18:51:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZTNX3gPMz5lK67 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:51:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: from www.zefox.net (www.zefox.net [50.1.20.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "pelorus.zefox.org", Issuer "pelorus.zefox.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZTNX0lc0z3mvq for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:51:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from www.zefox.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 50HIpt0v087461 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:51:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: (from fbsd@localhost) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 50HIptIV087460; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:51:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 10:51:55 -0800 From: bob prohaska To: Thor Ablestar Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on a Lenovo T400s, GUI suggestions needed Message-ID: References: <75dede5e-8dab-4c95-8eaa-53a2d6000d39@irk.ru> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <75dede5e-8dab-4c95-8eaa-53a2d6000d39@irk.ru> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZTNX0lc0z3mvq X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7065, ipnet:50.1.16.0/20, country:US] On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 02:29:59AM +0800, Thor Ablestar wrote: > Hello! > > I have a park of Lenovos X61 Tablet and T61. They are predecessors of T400s. > I use XFCE4. > > You need 8 GB RAM for comfortable operation. Internet mentions that it's > possible. 4GB is too small. > That may be an important detail, this machine has only 4GB. It can be upgraded to 8, but I want to test it a little more first. In the meantime problems with the wifi and hard disk have emerged, so those have to be tested first. > According to my experience the GUI problems usually lie in video driver and > not the window manager, so the tuning process begins with vesa driver. It > works slowly, sometimes it gives low resolution but it at least somehow > works almost always. > > Also you should expect some (or lot of) troubles from KMS driver that is > required by T400s Intel GMA video driver. I have wasted some $1000 on > similar problems with Radeon. For Geforce I needed drivers version 370. > > Hope it helps. > > And BTW. According to my experience FreeBSD does not react to power button. > No idea why. Thanks to everyone for the guidance! bob prohaska From nobody Fri Jan 17 19:35:32 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZVMQ5Jt1z5lMZ0 for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 19:35:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from gromit.dlib.vt.edu (gromit.dlib.vt.edu [128.173.126.123]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZVMQ36cFz3vqm for ; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 19:35:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2601:5cf:4083:3691::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gromit.dlib.vt.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BA24450C7; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 14:35:43 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.300.87.4.3\)) Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? From: Paul Mather In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 14:35:32 -0500 Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Dennis Clarke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.300.87.4.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZVMQ36cFz3vqm X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1312, ipnet:128.173.0.0/16, country:US] On Jan 17, 2025, at 1:30=E2=80=AFpm, Dennis Clarke = wrote: > I have plenty of logs. Piles of them. Perhaps the problem is that I > am building on a 15-CURRENT machine which has poudriere jails like so = : >=20 > titan# poudriere jails -l=20 > JAILNAME VERSION ARCH METHOD TIMESTAMP = PATH=20 > 134amd64 13.4-RELEASE-p2 1304000 3f40d5821eca amd64 git+https = 2025-01-10 10:42:08 /poudriere/jails/134amd64=20 > 142amd64 14.2-RELEASE 1402000 c8918d6c7412 amd64 git+https = 2024-12-03 12:50:29 /poudriere/jails/142amd64=20 > 140amd64 14.2-STABLE 1402501 e6de39be80e2 amd64 git+https = 2025-01-13 21:36:43 /poudriere/jails/140amd64=20 > 150amd64 15.0-CURRENT 1500030 amd64 src=3D/usr/src = 2025-01-12 07:44:29 /poudriere/jails/150amd64=20 > titan# >=20 > The one called 140stable is a bit strange given that I built it with = the > branch called "releng" for 14 and what I get is 14.2-STABLE. Whatever > that is. I had the silly notion that something called "STABLE" is a = good > place to build packages. A stable is where one may keep horses. Maybe > goats. Other than that I really do not know if building packages in = that > jail would be of any value compared to the 142amd64 jail. Who knows? > I surely do not. The FreeBSD Handbook might help you with FreeBSD-STABLE: = https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/cutting-edge/#stable Your 140amd64 Poudriere jail built "with the branch called "releng" for = 14" makes sense if you consider the nomenclature for FreeBSD branches = and releases. The RELENG_N branch corresponds to FreeBSD N-STABLE, and = a branch such as RELENG_N_R to FreeBSD N.R-RELEASE. I usually choose to run -STABLE on my FreeBSD systems because it gives = me a nice balance between -CURRENT and -RELEASE: for example, = performance improvements from -CURRENT will manifest themselves in = -STABLE before they see the light of day in -RELEASE. IIRC, I've been = using FreeBSD since 3.5-RELEASE, having used NetBSD/pmax and = NetBSD/alpha prior to that, and I believe I have a good idea in my own = mind as to how things work and what the tradeoffs are by now. More people run -RELEASE than -STABLE or -CURRENT, so if you want a = quieter life due to wider-scale testing and bug reporting, run -RELEASE = (on a Tier 1 platform). Similarly, if you want a quieter life, go for = pre-built packages rather than building your own with Poudriere. I use = Poudriere to build my own packages because I like to change quite a few = DEFAULT_VERSIONS when building my packages and set/unset various package = options. I realise this takes me into uncharted waters, as the testing = base for these non-default package builds is lower than for the default = package builds. I am assuming that risk on myself by electing to build = my own packages via Poudriere. Straying off the beaten path can sometimes take you to lonely places. = :-) Cheers, Paul. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 43406be999dec51bee314e1e795ad1ee; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 20:26:58 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.300.87.4.3\)) Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 12:26:47 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Current Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4BB9C865-30C1-4D4C-8CAA-3C8A04D09725@yahoo.com> References: To: Dennis Clarke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.300.87.4.3) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZWVc08gBz43VC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] On Jan 17, 2025, at 10:30, Dennis Clarke wrote: > On 1/15/25 21:20, Mark Millard wrote: >> Dennis Clarke wrote on >> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 15:16:58 UTC : >>> Over the past month or so I see endless fails in builds for the big >>> three user facing window manager things. This means that a simple = user >>> type person can not get a desktop. Really? Yes really. For at least = a >>> month or more you can not build KDE5 nor LXDE nor XFCE desktop. . . = . >> Here you seem to have leaped from your context's bulk build >> problems to most everyone else's bulk builds of similar >> software having similar bulk build problems. >=20 > I apologize for the rant. Clearly a rant. Pure frustration as I try > to do some testing of the big RELEASE stuff from 13.4 up to = 15-CURRENT. > It was a hand waving rant wherein I have seens build failures for = weeks > and weeks and it really feels like a hit or miss throw a dart good = luck > and spin the wheel maybe you are a winner today situation. >=20 >> (Since Jan-7 I'm I'm temporarily without access to the FreeBSD >> systems that I normally do. Also, I do not normally build those >> specific ports. So I do not have evidence about those from my >> own activities.) >>=20 >=20 > I have plenty of logs. If you can provide access to examples, I might be able to take a look during breaks from other activities and see if I notice any patterns to the failures. (If anyone one else would look, I've no idea.) No time frame promises. Another question is if you have also been getting console log notices, such as OOM kills and the like. Logs from inside builders may be necessary context but not sufficient context for some types of failures. > Piles of them. Perhaps the problem is that I > am building on a 15-CURRENT machine which has poudriere jails like so = : All the official FreeBSD build machines boot main [so: 15 as stands] but use jails that are for specific releases --or are for main. (Sometimes there are rare runs of a STABLE instead of a RELEASE.) So, of itself, using main to build for other versions is the most tested way of building. But you might not be using the same vintage of main as the build servers are using. And, such statements do not get into other issues such as resources on the build systems or the configuration of the bulk run. Those are less likely to be match. > titan# poudriere jails -l=20 > JAILNAME VERSION ARCH METHOD TIMESTAMP = PATH=20 > 134amd64 13.4-RELEASE-p2 1304000 3f40d5821eca amd64 git+https = 2025-01-10 10:42:08 /poudriere/jails/134amd64=20 > 142amd64 14.2-RELEASE 1402000 c8918d6c7412 amd64 git+https = 2024-12-03 12:50:29 /poudriere/jails/142amd64=20 > 140amd64 14.2-STABLE 1402501 e6de39be80e2 amd64 git+https = 2025-01-13 21:36:43 /poudriere/jails/140amd64=20 > 150amd64 15.0-CURRENT 1500030 amd64 src=3D/usr/src = 2025-01-12 07:44:29 /poudriere/jails/150amd64=20 > titan# = https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-branches/2025-January/d= ate.html shows: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 =E2=80=A2 git: e6de39be80e2 - stable/14 - MFC: libmagic: Unbreak for = older FreeBSD releases. Xin LI This is also why there is the "501" in the 1402501: The 5?? indicates, = in part, that it is a STABLE branch that is in the jail instead of a = releng/* branch. The 14 indicates FreeBSD 14, the 02 indicates that it is 14.2 specifically. So: some vintage of stable/14 after releng/14.2 was = branched off of stable/14 . releng is not a branch of itself that is used. There are separate = branches (I'm not listing in time order): . . . releng/13.4 releng/14.0 releng/14.1 releng/14.2 . . . NOTE: https://cgit.freebsd.org/ is having problems currently --so I'm = not quoting web page material above. > The one called 140stable is a bit strange given that I built it with = the > branch called "releng" for 14 and what I get is 14.2-STABLE. There is a branch stable/14 . After the likes of releng/14.2 being = branched off it it, stable/14 is modified to report 14.2-STABLE. stable/14 changes content frequently. On days where it has are commits, there usually multiple commits it it that day. Some days may not have commits. So far this month: about 110 commits (on 2025-Jan-17). One of them is a revert of an earlier commit. (stable/13 has 33 commits, the older supported stable/* tends to have less activity.) STABLE does not here mean "changes infrequently". Only RELEASE builds tend to have that. stable/14 activity at this point is preparation for releng/14.3 , so sort of a 14.2+ approximation. > Whatever > that is. I had the silly notion that something called "STABLE" is a = good > place to build packages. stable/14 is a development branch that should be more stable than main: far less experimentation and normally testing in main before being MFC'd to stable/14 . stable/14 is supported. main is not. Similar comments apply to stable/13 . See: https://www.freebsd.org/security/#sup > A stable is where one may keep horses. Maybe > goats. Other than that I really do not know if building packages in = that > jail would be of any value compared to the 142amd64 jail. Who knows? > I surely do not. FreeBSD does not officially build and distribute packages for stable/14 or stable/13 . So building packages based on stable/14 is supported but not as tested. (There can be rare tests of building packages for the likes of stable/14 but such are not distributed.) > I tend to kick off something like this : >=20 > titan# ls -lApbtr /poudriere/data/packages/=20 > total 60=20 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 15 21:40 134amd64-latest/=20 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 07:20 150amd64-2025Q1/=20 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 07:23 140amd64-2025Q1/=20 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 10:15 142amd64-latest/=20 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 10:36 142amd64-2025Q1/=20 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 14:00 150amd64-latest/=20 > drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel 15 Jan 16 14:09 134amd64-2025Q1/=20 > titan# > titan# /usr/bin/time -p idprio 0 poudriere bulk -r -j 140amd64 -p = 2025Q1 -f /root/pkg.list > [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done=20 > [00:00:00] Mounting system devices for 140amd64-2025Q1=20 > [00:00:01] Stashing existing package repository=20 > [00:00:01] Mounting ccache from: /var/cache/ccache=20 > [00:00:01] Mounting ports from: /poudriere/ports/2025Q1=20 > [00:00:01] Mounting packages from: = /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1=20 > [00:00:01] Mounting distfiles from: /poudriere/distfiles=20 > /etc/resolv.conf -> = /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/etc/resolv.conf=20 > [00:00:01] Starting jail 140amd64-2025Q1=20 > Updating /var/run/os-release done.=20 > [00:00:01] Will build as nobody:nobody (65534:65534)=20 > [00:00:01] Logs: = /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-16_14h18m02s=20 > [00:00:01] Loading MOVED for = /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/usr/ports=20 > [00:00:02] Ports supports: FLAVORS SUBPACKAGES SELECTED_OPTIONS=20 > [00:00:02] Inspecting ports tree for modifications to git checkout... = no=20 > [00:00:03] Ports top-level git hash: 1bbe39c25=20 > [00:00:03] Gathering ports metadata=20 > [00:00:08] Calculating ports order and dependencies=20 > [00:00:10] Trimming IGNORED and blacklisted ports=20 > [00:00:10] Sanity checking the repository=20 > [00:00:10] Checking packages for incremental rebuild needs=20 > [00:00:13] Deleting rsync-3.4.0.pkg: new version: 3.4.1=20 > [00:00:14] Deleting mariadb1011-server-10.11.10_1.pkg: missing = dependency: rsync-3.4.0=20 > [00:00:14] Deleting mariadb114-server-11.4.4.pkg: missing dependency: = rsync-3.4.0=20 > [00:00:15] Deleting stale symlinks... done=20 > [00:00:15] Deleting empty directories... done=20 > [00:00:15] Unqueueing existing packages=20 > [00:00:16] Unqueueing orphaned build dependencies=20 > [00:00:16] Sanity checking build queue=20 > [00:00:16] Processing PRIORITY_BOOST=20 > [00:00:16] Balancing pool=20 > [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-16_14h18m02s] [balancing_pool] Queued: 13 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 13 T = ime: 00:00:15=20 > [00:00:16] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done=20 > [00:00:16] Building 13 packages using up to 13 builders=20 > [00:00:16] Hit CTRL+t at any time to see build progress and stats=20 > [00:00:16] [01] [00:00:00] Builder starting=20 > [00:00:16] [02] [00:00:00] Builder starting=20 > [00:00:16] [01] [00:00:00] Builder started=20 > [00:00:16] [01] [00:00:00] Building x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2=20 > [00:00:16] [02] [00:00:00] Builder started=20 > [00:00:16] [02] [00:00:00] Building net/rsync | rsync-3.4.1=20 > [00:00:26] [02] [00:00:10] Finished net/rsync | rsync-3.4.1: Success=20= > [00:00:26] [02] [00:00:00] Building databases/mariadb114-server | = mariadb114-server-11.4.4=20 > [00:00:26] [03] [00:00:00] Builder starting=20 > [00:00:27] [03] [00:00:01] Builder started=20 > [00:00:27] [03] [00:00:00] Building databases/mariadb1011-server | = mariadb1011-server-10.11.10_1=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Finished x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2: Failed: build So the log for libwnck3-3.36.0_2 would hopefully give more specific information about what failed within its build attempt. I'll note that this stopped well before building any of your "big three": a prerequisite failed before getting that far. There can be a large number of prerequisites, some of which may be used by more than one of your "big three": one failure could block multiple of the "big three". > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11/libxfce4windowing | = libxfce4windowing-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0 _2 failed=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-fm/thunar | thunar-4.20.1: = Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4 | xfce-4.20: = Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-desktop | = xfce4-desktop-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 fa iled=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping deskutils/xfce4-notifyd | = xfce4-notifyd-0.9.6_1: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_ 2 failed=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-panel | = xfce4-panel-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping sysutils/xfce4-power-manager | = xfce4-power-manager-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnc k3-3.36.0_2 failed=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-session | = xfce4-session-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 fa iled=20 > [00:00:36] [01] [00:00:20] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-wm | xfce4-wm-4.20.0: = Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed=20 > [00:02:51] [02] [00:02:25] Finished databases/mariadb114-server | = mariadb114-server-11.4.4: Success=20 > [00:02:52] [03] [00:02:25] Finished databases/mariadb1011-server | = mariadb1011-server-10.11.10_1: Success=20 > [00:02:53] Stopping 13 builders=20 > [00:02:54] Creating pkg repository=20 > Creating repository in /tmp/packages: 100%=20 > Packing files for repository: 100%=20 > [00:03:12] Committing packages to repository: = /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1/.real_1737037274 via .latest = symlink > [00:03:12] Removing old packages=20 > [00:03:12] Built ports: net/rsync databases/mariadb114-server = databases/mariadb1011-server=20 > [00:03:12] Failed ports: x11-toolkits/libwnck3:build=20 > [00:03:12] Skipped ports: deskutils/xfce4-notifyd = sysutils/xfce4-power-manager x11-fm/thunar x11-wm/xfce4 = x11-wm/xfce4-desktop x11-wm/xfce4- panel = x11-wm/xfce4-session x11-wm/xfce4-wm x11/libxfce4windowing=20 > [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-16_14h18m02s] [committing] Queued: 13 = Built: 3 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 = Time: 00:03:11=20 > [00:03:12] Logs: = /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-16_14h18m02s=20 > [00:03:12] Cleaning up=20 > [00:03:12] Unmounting file systems=20 > real 192.36=20 > user 518.74=20 > sys 219.50=20 > titan# >=20 >=20 > Then straight away after that : > titan# /usr/bin/time -p idprio 0 poudriere bulk -r -j 140amd64 -p = 2025Q1 -f /root/pkg.list Note to readers: That is the same command as above repeated, up to a white space difference. > [00:00:00] Updating portstree "2025Q1" with git+https... done > [00:00:00] Creating the reference jail... done > [00:00:00] Mounting system devices for 140amd64-2025Q1 > [00:00:00] Stashing existing package repository > [00:00:00] Mounting ccache from: /var/cache/ccache > [00:00:00] Mounting ports from: /poudriere/ports/2025Q1 > [00:00:00] Mounting packages from: = /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1 > [00:00:00] Mounting distfiles from: /poudriere/distfiles > /etc/resolv.conf -> = /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/etc/resolv.conf > [00:00:00] Starting jail 140amd64-2025Q1 > Updating /var/run/os-release done. > [00:00:00] Will build as nobody:nobody (65534:65534) > [00:00:00] Logs: = /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-17_07h00m48s > [00:00:00] Loading MOVED for = /poudriere/data/.m/140amd64-2025Q1/ref/usr/ports > [00:00:01] Ports supports: FLAVORS SUBPACKAGES SELECTED_OPTIONS > [00:00:01] Inspecting ports tree for modifications to git checkout... = no > [00:00:02] Ports top-level git hash: ea08b2ed7 > [00:00:02] Gathering ports metadata > [00:00:07] Calculating ports order and dependencies > [00:00:09] Trimming IGNORED and blacklisted ports > [00:00:10] Sanity checking the repository > [00:00:10] Checking packages for incremental rebuild needs > [00:00:13] Deleting stale symlinks... done > [00:00:13] Deleting empty directories... done > [00:00:13] Unqueueing existing packages > [00:00:14] Unqueueing orphaned build dependencies > [00:00:14] Sanity checking build queue > [00:00:14] Processing PRIORITY_BOOST > [00:00:15] Balancing pool > [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-17_07h00m48s] [balancing_pool] Queued: 10 = Built: 0 Failed: 0 Skipped: 0 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 10 = Time: 00:00:14 > [00:00:15] Recording filesystem state for prepkg... done > [00:00:15] Building 10 packages using up to 10 builders > [00:00:15] Hit CTRL+t at any time to see build progress and stats > [00:00:15] [01] [00:00:00] Builder starting > [00:00:15] [01] [00:00:00] Builder started > [00:00:15] [01] [00:00:00] Building x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Finished x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2: Failed: build So the failure for libwnck3-3.36.0_2 seems repeatable instead of racy/random. This tends to make it easier to discover what is wrong and how to have it fixed. > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11/libxfce4windowing | = libxfce4windowing-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-fm/thunar | thunar-4.20.1: = Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4 | xfce-4.20: = Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-desktop | = xfce4-desktop-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping deskutils/xfce4-notifyd | = xfce4-notifyd-0.9.6_1: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-panel | = xfce4-panel-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping sysutils/xfce4-power-manager | = xfce4-power-manager-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-session | = xfce4-session-4.20.0: Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | = libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] [01] [00:00:18] Skipping x11-wm/xfce4-wm | xfce4-wm-4.20.0: = Dependent port x11-toolkits/libwnck3 | libwnck3-3.36.0_2 failed > [00:00:33] Stopping 10 builders > [00:00:33] Creating pkg repository > Creating repository in /tmp/packages: 100% > Packing files for repository: 100% > [00:00:52] Committing packages to repository: = /poudriere/data/packages/140amd64-2025Q1/.real_1737097300 via .latest = symlink > [00:00:52] Removing old packages > [00:00:52] Failed ports: x11-toolkits/libwnck3:build > [00:00:52] Skipped ports: deskutils/xfce4-notifyd = sysutils/xfce4-power-manager x11-fm/thunar x11-wm/xfce4 = x11-wm/xfce4-desktop x11-wm/xfce4-panel x11-wm/xfce4-session = x11-wm/xfce4-wm x11/libxfce4windowing > [140amd64-2025Q1] [2025-01-17_07h00m48s] [committing] Queued: 10 = Built: 0 Failed: 1 Skipped: 9 Ignored: 0 Fetched: 0 Tobuild: 0 = Time: 00:00:51 > [00:00:52] Logs: = /poudriere/data/logs/bulk/140amd64-2025Q1/2025-01-17_07h00m48s > [00:00:52] Cleaning up > [00:00:52] Unmounting file systems > real 52.84 > user 183.75 > sys 123.83 > titan# >=20 > I see things like that ALL the time. Daily. Racy/random failures can happen, but repeatabilty is more typical. In other words: not unexpected if one tests for repeatability like the above did. >>> . . . >>>=20 >>> Why do I always see things like this : >> Just rhetorical? (See more later.) >>=20 >=20 >=20 > Sort of. Yes. I think the specifics are just pine needles on the = little > trees in a big big forest. Some are going to be dead and fall away. = Some > will need a bit of trimming on some of the trees. That is the nature = of > the forest. However I have been looking at poudriere build failures = for > weeks. Right, it is the holidays and so I do not expect much and = really > should not. I don't. >=20 >> I've not seen anything presented that might allow someone to help >> improve what happens in your context --or even to test if they can >> specifically reproduce any of your builds' specific failures, not >> even if they can match which ports blocked the potentially more >> overall builds. >> The note reads more as an expression of furstation than anything >> else, no attempt at getting help. Or, maybe, an attempt, in part, >> to see how many "me too" responses show up. >=20 > I was mostly dipping my toes in the water and waiting for the usual > flames. I have been doing something or other related to software = package > stuff for a while now. I am not surprised when things go sideways a = bit. > I am, yes, frustrated when building the big three window manager bits > and some database tools falls over. Daily. Weekly. >=20 >=20 >> The note was sent to freebsd-current. I'm not sure if I should >> read someting into that or not. >=20 > Well, not sure else what/where to do what? I figure a 15.0-CURRENT > machine is what one would need to build with. That context was not specified nor obvious. Sometimes explaining why a specific list was picked as be useful to those reading. It is true that you can not reasonably use 13.4 to build 14.*+] or main. Use of main usually works for going backwards. But I'll note that what is tested by use on the official builders is only the specific snapshots they install for booting the machines. They do not update which snapshot for booting all that often. > Certainly for every > reasonable version from 13.4 upwards. Just a guess but I think that > is what would need. >=20 >> Nothing hints at the platform(s) used vs. not or that fail >> vs. not. >> Prior to my FreeBSD use stopping on 2025-Jan-7, bulk builds that >> I had done worked fine. But it is likely to be a rather different >> workload vs. yours. >=20 > Yep likely. I have a package list of stuff and it usually rounds out = to > a grand whopping 1500+ things. Never more than 1600. Not ever. >=20 >> Looking at the FreeBD package builders, I do see latest for >> main armv7 having: >> x11/kde5 being blocked by libfido2-1.15.0 >> x11-wm/xfce being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 >> x11/xfce4-goodies being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 >> x11/xfce4-terminal being blocked by vte3-0.70.2_5 >=20 > Well, that is armv7? I am looking at AMD64 on a Xeon machine. That was not obvious from the original message. I had to explore without being able to know how to match your context. > More or > less AMD64 or x86_64 depending on whose church we sit in. >=20 >> But I did not see LXDE being blocked. >> I did not see such blocks for amd64 or arm64. >> Where I do see all of KDE5, LXDE, and XFCE blocked >> is by rust-1.81.0 in: >>=20 >=20 > Funny. I have rust built on RISC-V : >=20 > enceladus$ uname -apKU > FreeBSD enceladus 15.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 15.0-CURRENT #2 = main-n274434-2e09cef8dc6f: Sun Dec 29 05:26:22 GMT 2024 = root@enceladus:/usr/obj/usr/src/riscv.riscv64/sys/SIFIVE-COMPAT11 riscv = riscv64 1500029 1500029 > enceladus$ > enceladus$ rustc --version > rustc 1.83.0 (90b35a623 2024-11-26) (built from a source tarball) > enceladus$ The armv7 rust issue is a known and fixed issue that the Quarterly armv7 builds have not yet caught up to. > However that is a wild red herring. Pay no attention to that. >=20 >> But I've no clue if any of this matches your example >> build failures. >=20 >=20 > I am thankful for the reply. I am curious. Given a hundred users of > FreeBSD the question would be how many build stuff themselves? The > numbers may be shockingly low. I have no idea. I am just guessing. >=20 There is no place to look up figures for that. An overall summary: Trying to keep the likes of 36295 packages (and growing) building is a non-trivial activity. Most are not independent of some others. A failure of one can lead to 4000+ other packages to not even be attempted since the one common prerequisite for those 4000+ happens to end up not being available to use. (I used the lang/rust for armv7 example for illustration.) If you are building packages for yourself, you are going to see that structural property in various ways at various times. On the information I have I cannot be more specific about your specific build problems. Nor do I have the context to do test builds of my own at this time. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Sat Jan 18 03:17:17 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZhcF6w9vz5khcs for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 03:17:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic310-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic310-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.69.148]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZhcD1Zgkz3j2W for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 03:17:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=YjMEoNCc; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.69.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1737170250; bh=FtLPr57XyBWfrVd6TiLVCymKgtjKAxeMflU+9+7HF8c=; h=From:Subject:Date:Cc:To:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=YjMEoNCcCjxRIvTtgrjDt76eO9y2xr9adFkJe+O4i+2tIP+QvISRkgQO+hXiEgNaAbRyFj+nFte0HJkZrISqI14MWZoLG7qIvfAXxsRN/lC35TEpq40F9TOL/Xwn+WTKzHhiVpIgPlToBNJIXFv84dC3RO5q03CyqZbUYLHIh2nJpzwUEh2pYqo/bP4DkOiXLSW92jmRIxMBHvK88vPrl5w/HHXzseGF/OoMi+5xy4ngzMxNv5jCS1dkALkyI5A/HMXrWTe9m/P6yqJ5j4lKkM5XANIIiIZqworlg3BYoA8+0rycoa+aZF3/xhsV67+ejPKztzqK56GMUuKPGLesfA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1737170250; bh=S7Ovn1dd/JuTRo382Ebr9CzDqrJShRCWZAHIA+3tw5a=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=eJ4jzzGsRWcfGaeIDwqxbRe3dK/bSzdU6EOdF4Y6Bw5wAnUpB5kgA1vctJIGZPxuVmVtn5TbCVNBE8RstKV+9XMd2Nj4dVcJgFoPSwtTP9AobG2ayusRbVQtI3zmL5FguO7qWi3tAjmgd85aNzfbD7Ew825HkdSKPgVo0Fcf4X/+suhg3WwkZE5kQOfIWvbcv+/v/R514i3wNZu9+EIc+JGITABNnVghvJNOdyjBe4evJd9rMB8g+SyFJlN/SBzZalmbOvUl7mTrsX3ETSw+fpliMqzrdS2Q4NWtL7zQthQhB9yIesDXA3qfQ+AwWr9eZWpur+D7RT0J75JEDDwbKg== X-YMail-OSG: RZbrggQVM1mxrUe7Jsj8c2D0kuAXsWO3XwYW3Qh0wBWZovjabSZno0n0Wt3pcC6 BS7W37Fa8NTErHSf__MozRCmpwnoJcJ6G0Q7qDLJLF3UCj8bE01w6p3do7X4L5VfJfhh8gAdtSnV U35D7IYsHSl8y_xyOrym5ddIgSqAZcyyvzNDTWPyOF_e7WZ3XgjLC.ODvs0ivgojnhWti1k80nQ8 d73LqvBNDNfAJZxz0AmFtZtkfUlrV2wfNK.8gmNZnhtffaAWrGDNwzCZMwzrYQZZOCreoqeYVJGs 88849iaJqlDBs64_rV0FbXT0a_.ztL7mQxliXaHTuzaBee3WjIbvW_ppwURExImrKlf3c48rWezW BA2QXP3kh_E7wO3v59csxPtx.K7zsSQp8FJ9h62ueEGEbMfPIy9aQdC0wb7H767qu6FOcNLznGue lUC1x11DCYSHLBHwV2aQUFbncBPiAGP4jRef9XQRQWUiL8FyrHJeS_XuBtPOSt96ivbnPAlUdceh lSNsaDIZ4vYKPD3HakiEzdJ8prbUc70Z7Xbbl0GlBIIqHdY2K9JZI_5V2uSIH0aeuN0i9thvxEJA Ms8YvbjwVrR5Nu8RJu.BFZLio4yPofiHQz.IMWyti5LfyLgnLlNwAf2Zl1M.Wc1IpInvZH3OyqLg CANsq3sWFVzGa8ylaJo98VbRRnXJD.pbtZa_tzLltEYlL6Wi0VPt609e1F._A99hLvgf1HvtNI3t Pr2CY9g7612raTF4Elq269xQVnFKEj9pR.G.aOubjAbEgvKAVC1vBRl2BFfzAyeYxnFu8VKD9HMB h1KYcWFmXxmVHMKBm983S_TXBbVhqvGcyiFHxuQzvqIMll3MP.S2XDrF7ic8lCNiaSexuQvNGgRL 8.AJiHIlR8geYXTzB.S9kEKsp4.C46Fqvm8tV3PJD.Lle0cUUOc.X18ss9BZhVCYU6JhNjl6zuC8 iel5f0HWSK8pMpiVl.CH7MDzz1z_nlJlwQnlBh_J_0rWLEiTx3xSPogbt_3JE43R8KtEX14zVnpk _EXp8K_OfOD8cnyzWXk7lazHcdSWKQRCNZmmp9N8zIxQ1RNMgYgYZxLT.ePXjymu8S6oCFdOgZ0h NlcsBupK6fv18vU2ijOTzgv3Adbc_CCPUBeisV9lIyqGfn.Rf.MaR_TR26CBtdqq.wiqm1oz_y5u 5MVw3j3rN1uIbwyxd0VmeCa352QcNgTtrKvQQo7UWLT9Ja9yJn05yNMClVJm3fBUjXnZDCdLDBxq Q_NB15iAeRY8LIM5AIPF56l0U8b2GkzquwJSXDNQ_Z5siTur_gzTiQO3IZN3.rhUr9m_zrN7BZqY elxJGcsuZogsZmVtnYwsuO6hDrJWkpFVGVV5awMZ_gK.hmx0sZXfh.ULWRHh6tTrgGowmHEuMeHe l9Lq5t1nTfkfdBuI2ayOMMd5z3h8E.pkUu59cpAZURlRim0SgJvsmx_KJch69nWpUBZd7_sNyfV. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8822eff765ed5edda18f0b889542663e; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 03:17:29 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.300.87.4.3\)) Subject: Re: poudriere and the user ... is it mostly a lost idea? Message-Id: <30B8ECBF-132F-4C40-9744-28C66B7C5FD5@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 19:17:17 -0800 Cc: FreeBSD Current To: Paul Mather , Dennis Clarke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.300.87.4.3) References: <30B8ECBF-132F-4C40-9744-28C66B7C5FD5.ref@yahoo.com> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.47 / 15.00]; RBL_SENDERSCORE_REPUT_9(-1.00)[98.137.69.148:from]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.969]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.69.148:from]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.69.148:from] X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZhcD1Zgkz3j2W Paul Mather wrote on Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 19:35:32 UTC : On Jan 17, 2025, at 1:30=E2=80=AFpm, Dennis Clarke = wrote: > I have plenty of logs. Piles of them. Perhaps the problem is that I > am building on a 15-CURRENT machine which has poudriere jails like so = : >=20 > titan# poudriere jails -l=20 > JAILNAME VERSION ARCH METHOD TIMESTAMP PATH=20 > 134amd64 13.4-RELEASE-p2 1304000 3f40d5821eca amd64 git+https = 2025-01-10 10:42:08 /poudriere/jails/134amd64=20 > 142amd64 14.2-RELEASE 1402000 c8918d6c7412 amd64 git+https 2024-12-03 = 12:50:29 /poudriere/jails/142amd64=20 > 140amd64 14.2-STABLE 1402501 e6de39be80e2 amd64 git+https 2025-01-13 = 21:36:43 /poudriere/jails/140amd64=20 > 150amd64 15.0-CURRENT 1500030 amd64 src=3D/usr/src 2025-01-12 07:44:29 = /poudriere/jails/150amd64=20 > titan# >=20 > The one called 140stable is a bit strange given that I built it with = the > branch called "releng" for 14 and what I get is 14.2-STABLE. Whatever > that is. I had the silly notion that something called "STABLE" is a = good > place to build packages. A stable is where one may keep horses. Maybe > goats. Other than that I really do not know if building packages in = that > jail would be of any value compared to the 142amd64 jail. Who knows? > I surely do not. > The FreeBSD Handbook might help you with FreeBSD-STABLE: = https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/cutting-edge/#stable >=20 > Your 140amd64 Poudriere jail built "with the branch called "releng" = for 14" makes sense if you consider the nomenclature for FreeBSD = branches and releases. The RELENG_N branch corresponds to FreeBSD = N-STABLE, and a branch such as RELENG_N_R to FreeBSD N.R-RELEASE. https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/refs/heads/ lists under "Branch" the = following that also match "/14": stable/14 releng/14.2 releng/14.1 releng/14.0 It does not list releng/14 (no "." or other suffix) at all. The popup for the "switch" button on the page is also that way. https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/?h=3Dreleng%2F14 produces: "Invalid branch: releng/14" I'm unsure what happened to end up with stable/14 for Dennis but what he reports shows that is what he ended up with. > I usually choose to run -STABLE on my FreeBSD systems because it gives = me a nice balance between -CURRENT and -RELEASE: for example, = performance improvements from -CURRENT will manifest themselves in = -STABLE before they see the light of day in -RELEASE. IIRC, I've been = using FreeBSD since 3.5-RELEASE, having used NetBSD/pmax and = NetBSD/alpha prior to that, and I believe I have a good idea in my own = mind as to how things work and what the tradeoffs are by now. >=20 > More people run -RELEASE than -STABLE or -CURRENT, so if you want a = quieter life due to wider-scale testing and bug reporting, run -RELEASE = (on a Tier 1 platform). Similarly, if you want a quieter life, go for = pre-built packages rather than building your own with Poudriere. I use = Poudriere to build my own packages because I like to change quite a few = DEFAULT_VERSIONS when building my packages and set/unset various package = options. I realise this takes me into uncharted waters, as the testing = base for these non-default package builds is lower than for the default = package builds. I am assuming that risk on myself by electing to build = my own packages via Poudriere. >=20 > Straying off the beaten path can sometimes take you to lonely places. = :-) =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Sat Jan 18 17:29:03 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Yb3VT3Nqvz5kcwP for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:28:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: from www.zefox.net (www.zefox.net [50.1.20.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "pelorus.zefox.org", Issuer "pelorus.zefox.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Yb3VS1kVXz3rVd for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 17:28:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fbsd@www.zefox.net has no SPF policy when checking 50.1.20.27) smtp.mailfrom=fbsd@www.zefox.net; dmarc=none Received: from www.zefox.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 50IHT4XI091560 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 09:29:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: (from fbsd@localhost) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 50IHT4Gd091559 for freebsd-current@freebsd.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 09:29:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 09:29:03 -0800 From: bob prohaska To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: /usr/src and /usr/ports not git directories ? Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.07 / 15.00]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.827]; WWW_DOT_DOMAIN(0.50)[]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zefox.net]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7065, ipnet:50.1.16.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record] X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Yb3VS1kVXz3rVd A fresh install of FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250102-3d0a0dda3a7d-274510-memstick.img set up without much difficulty and Xorg seems to work out of the box on my Lenovo t400s. Both src and ports directories were installed by bsdinstall, but an attempt to run git pull in the src directory failed with "not a git repository", even though .git entries are present. The most visible problem is lack of a /usr/src/.git directory. Can the existing src and ports directories be salvaged? Thanks for reading, bob prohaska From nobody Sat Jan 18 20:31:07 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Yb7Y53RKSz5kqg3 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 20:31:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sr@genyosha.net) Received: from ns1.genyosha.net (ns1.genyosha.net [50.39.243.221]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "float.home.genyosha.net", Issuer "float.home.genyosha.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Yb7Y50fcGz3G2Q for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 20:31:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sr@genyosha.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from dragon.home.genyosha.net (ops0.genyosha.net [50.39.243.219]) by ns1.genyosha.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 50IKVCjq023513 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2025 12:31:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sr@genyosha.net) Received: from dragon.home.genyosha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.home.genyosha.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 50IKV7EW002328; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 12:31:07 -0800 Received: (from sr@localhost) by dragon.home.genyosha.net (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 50IKV75W002327; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 12:31:07 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 12:31:07 -0800 From: Steve Rikli To: bob prohaska Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/src and /usr/ports not git directories ? Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns1.genyosha.net [50.39.243.221]); Sat, 18 Jan 2025 12:31:13 -0800 (PST) for IP:'50.39.243.219' DOMAIN:'ops0.genyosha.net' HELO:'dragon.home.genyosha.net' FROM:'sr@genyosha.net' RCPT:'' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (ns1.genyosha.net [50.39.243.221]); Sat, 18 Jan 2025 12:31:13 -0800 (PST) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Yb7Y50fcGz3G2Q X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20055, ipnet:50.39.128.0/17, country:US] On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 09:29:03AM -0800, bob prohaska wrote: > A fresh install of > FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250102-3d0a0dda3a7d-274510-memstick.img > set up without much difficulty and Xorg seems to work out of the box > on my Lenovo t400s. Both src and ports directories were installed by > bsdinstall, but an attempt to run git pull in the src directory failed > with "not a git repository", even though .git entries are present. > > The most visible problem is lack of a /usr/src/.git directory. Can > the existing src and ports directories be salvaged? Not exactly answering the question you asked, but when I install FreeBSD I typicaly do not select src and ports, and instead do a git checkout of them afterwards. Cheers, sr. From nobody Sat Jan 18 23:44:31 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YbCqp1TV3z5l2qB for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 23:44:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: from www.zefox.net (www.zefox.net [50.1.20.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "pelorus.zefox.org", Issuer "pelorus.zefox.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YbCqn3ZYmz3W3N for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 23:44:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from www.zefox.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 50INiWnP092257 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 18 Jan 2025 15:44:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: (from fbsd@localhost) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 50INiWlO092256; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 15:44:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from fbsd) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2025 15:44:31 -0800 From: bob prohaska To: Steve Rikli Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/src and /usr/ports not git directories ? Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YbCqn3ZYmz3W3N X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7065, ipnet:50.1.16.0/20, country:US] On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 12:31:07PM -0800, Steve Rikli wrote: > On Sat, Jan 18, 2025 at 09:29:03AM -0800, bob prohaska wrote: > > A fresh install of > > FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250102-3d0a0dda3a7d-274510-memstick.img > > set up without much difficulty and Xorg seems to work out of the box > > on my Lenovo t400s. Both src and ports directories were installed by > > bsdinstall, but an attempt to run git pull in the src directory failed > > with "not a git repository", even though .git entries are present. > > > > The most visible problem is lack of a /usr/src/.git directory. Can > > the existing src and ports directories be salvaged? > > Not exactly answering the question you asked, but when I install FreeBSD > I typicaly do not select src and ports, and instead do a git checkout > of them afterwards. Nor have I, in perhaps ten years. I just tried it for curiosity's sake and was quite surprised at the failure. Perhaps the snapshot process is the culprit, as compared to a release. Still, if anybody knows of a potential way to salvage the existing src and ports I'd like to try, if only for my own edification. Thanks for writing, bob prohaska From nobody Sun Jan 19 00:02:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YbDFK4F3Mz5l3rR for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2025 00:03:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YbDFJ5chDz3YWs for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2025 00:03:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (124-18-43-234.area1a.commufa.jp [124.18.43.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.17.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 50J02m0u001605; Sun, 19 Jan 2025 09:02:50 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1737244970; bh=lTrbqrpAYMUxr29QYj9fJDMXAqI5kXu9CKiE6aW2Tdw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=fbsbhuWk59e0W8X01uPtTRWdE9/Ua3OpFjwJxpb+vnD5yJEFE213LgaegVt3k1/VX EoRryyECbtllev/wp1rwh0VdnKJCrPLADnsbUO9u4YIpSIbJmt4J9p22noKMc9jcpp +1VVI/4wu/M6PLO83P+/9EwUViIAuymVrTgnYtGk= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2025 09:02:47 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: bob prohaska Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: /usr/src and /usr/ports not git directories ? Message-Id: <20250119090247.55dda30bf0a27dacfc752f31@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.2) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YbDFJ5chDz3YWs X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] On Sat, 18 Jan 2025 09:29:03 -0800 bob prohaska wrote: > A fresh install of > FreeBSD-15.0-CURRENT-amd64-20250102-3d0a0dda3a7d-274510-memstick.img > set up without much difficulty and Xorg seems to work out of the box > on my Lenovo t400s. Both src and ports directories were installed by > bsdinstall, but an attempt to run git pull in the src directory failed > with "not a git repository", even though .git entries are present. > > The most visible problem is lack of a /usr/src/.git directory. Can > the existing src and ports directories be salvaged? > > Thanks for reading, > > bob prohaska AFAIK, src and ports packages included in the installation media is just "snapshots" of working directories of both. They don't include .git (yet older subversion era, .svn) directories. They are just for convenience and don't be intended to switch to any VCS used at the moment (currently, git), and usually any kind of recent "co-operational" VCS doesn't like existing working tree on creating its local repo by mirroring (cloning) official repo. And src and ports packages would be (IIRC, as I don't use freebsd-update for quite a long time) updated via freebsd-update or installer of newer releases, not via VCS. You'd better considering them as "convenience packages for any user who don't want local builds except it's actually mandated (for i.e.) kmod ports) or just want to read codes. If you want to switch to git from src and/or ports packages but already have some local changes you don't want to be lost, you need to "move" /usr/src and/or /usr/ports to different place (i.e., renaming to /usr/src.local and/or /usr/ports.local), clone official repo and apply changes to checked out /usr/src and/or /usr/ports and applying local changes (you need to choose how to apply changes, simply to the branch you chose or creating your own branch and apply there). If you don't create your own branch, you need to `git stash` before pulling updates and `git stash pop` (or `git stash apply`) after pulling updates. I chose this way as no one can assure that collision of branch name with official repo (i.e., by vendor-importing any project with accidentally named same), with the cost of hand-fixing on mis-(auto)merges on `git stash pop` and this kind of merging issue also happenes on rebasing local branches. I don't intend to force you this way, just my way. And why src and ports packages exists. At past, when Internet was quite sloooooow, or even unavailable for personal users, FreeBSD was distributed by CD-ROMs, Floppy Disks or even tapes. In these cases, updating via VCS was not realistic for end users, thus, these were mandatory, and no need to consider VCS for them. IMHO, once any in-base tool corresponding with csup for CVS and svnlite for Subversion (svn) is introduced for current Git, it would be the good timing to stop providing src and ports packages until next VCS switch happenes. Another way would be, when switching to pkgbase-based installer, maintaining them as pkg format and keep them in complete sync with pkgpase and ports rebuilds. This should be much better. Not sure it can be achieved on 15.0-Release or later releases. -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Sun Jan 19 22:48:27 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YbpXt24Gdz5lpjc for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2025 22:48:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YbpXs3sTfz3PZ2 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2025 22:48:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of phk@critter.freebsd.dk designates 130.225.244.222 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=phk@critter.freebsd.dk; dmarc=none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFF0D8928E for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2025 22:48:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 50JMmR1O061387; Sun, 19 Jan 2025 22:48:27 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202501192248.50JMmR1O061387@critter.freebsd.dk> To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Thinkpad T14s with ARM CPU (Snapdragon) minimally functional From: Poul-Henning Kamp List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <61385.1737326907.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2025 22:48:27 +0000 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.96 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.958]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[phk]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[] X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YbpXs3sTfz3PZ2 I now have a set of patches which makes the T14s minimally functional: Keyboard, rodents and USB2 works, X can start in 1388x855 mode. Nice machine: buildworld on -current takes just an hour. Until I get the various patches polished and past maintainers, the patch against today's current is here: https://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/t14sarm.patch Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.