From nobody Mon Oct 13 03:12:02 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clMnl6Gxzz6Bk5F for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:11:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gperciva@tarsnap.com) Received: from mail.tarsnap.com (mail.tarsnap.com [54.86.246.204]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4clMnl06Xtz3TLL for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:11:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gperciva@tarsnap.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=tarsnap.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gperciva@tarsnap.com designates 54.86.246.204 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gperciva@tarsnap.com Received: (qmail 76251 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2025 03:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (127.0.0.1) by mail.tarsnap.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2025 03:11:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2025 20:12:02 -0700 From: Graham Percival To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Cc: Colin Percival Subject: FreeBSD Git Weekly 2025-10-06 to 2025-10-12 Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.18 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.77)[-0.767]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[tarsnap.com,none]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.29)[0.286]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:54.86.246.204/32]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14618, ipnet:54.86.0.0/16, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[54.86.246.204:from]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clMnl06Xtz3TLL Hi all, I'm happy to announce FreeBSD git weekly for 2025-10-06 -- 2025-10-12: https://freebsd-git-weekly.tarsnap.net/2025-10-06.html It's a list of the 153 commits in that week, split into categories. Highlighted commits: - blocklist: Rename blacklist to blocklist "Highlighted" commits are selected automatically if a commit modifies UPDATING, or if the commit message contains a "Relnotes:" line. If you think that another commit should be highlighted, let me know and I'm happy to make it so. To see all reports: https://freebsd-git-weekly.tarsnap.net/ This work is funded by cperciva@ and Tarsnap Backup Inc. Cheers, - Graham Percival From nobody Mon Oct 13 07:45:02 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clTsH3hZPz6C7Bb for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 07:45:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drsnx60@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clTsG5rxKz3X2c for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 07:45:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drsnx60@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=acU4o1BN; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of drsnx60@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=drsnx60@gmail.com Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-59093250aabso2330140e87.2 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 00:45:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1760341504; x=1760946304; darn=freebsd.org; h=subject:from:to:content-language:user-agent:mime-version:date :message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JF7DMyBxvn2oWJBSTDkOD6NnFXLh22uh40nDJV9HEOw=; b=acU4o1BNLyXrLJ+0ltAanyiDFOpWaDfxsvKRuuQZx1ulwmil2NVThaNtO/j9KfDi1t OQjkQnmi+PS9p6HY/LKbnksqcXrGPbozcSP3l9y2w4TbCWlp6xPWW7U7D3OCKgtp93Wx 21RiC3fB3j+vsB0LNiEWdK/haZdbYgcMpY0e16frKs7ctLQbml9P54hKM2mBCYLFXGJg 8THQiA8XznsONIcVmtiDc7kRODscxm0IORt4jKm7C8DUreyf2Xm6AbcCv49kyLKTUA96 2WqWdYq26Yr4tzfnj+CJlRySAET/MwaJP+jdDsmQ6zFjx0ckiDSAoK/NkhCayJUv7qRk ncDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760341504; x=1760946304; h=subject:from:to:content-language:user-agent:mime-version:date :message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=JF7DMyBxvn2oWJBSTDkOD6NnFXLh22uh40nDJV9HEOw=; b=hfPFKQSMlc9yeqw8C52bTXK8SHznZ3aZBgH0X6xN19YAV4PDU/dCiEyAhrUsWCdt7M 2PJEUuRAuZA7WeKBocfxauTk3MRz5It9a9nRWb8tMZzy9kMVZFFU9IWcp9WU/7SsPrpK cMDK6CW4EmtC/lLdP1nVix6AujQ5NIPsSbhsg4WMx3Xl5i13ppTOwILxPaFrIXoaMeMx HzRiOtmqWKdxdZ68gkeEHdybM7OHNIfRY7dNWn77OUOrxWMutu1LZqh5pgZioXYzIU/1 qLxK5x50Oau038nv2gJZSv/1a1PRqBE1vl2jDKksXU31Wyq5WQjXekrvLVEe/Y2R9Yrk s6wg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx49DsiohKPjmIDjGWDtBE54m4Lr1ShpwUxy6PXjekkW0GwVNd7 5Mr6Hs15Rt4GxnlJ4YlMs+aAq6dZPfWqo71WOJFRw1Hy5ZV9DEogiNnAftAAQg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvx5pNIh2sxm8NurPqU8GMfqXMp+oCXza+Tzz9mR+a8Egk7b/p8s8Vkv00Gq+I 74tsd+Ge2U1Xb/kClvfHyU0A9pUqaJhSRaVCwcdf9/ziWTvKqVyn4gI51Crb/t/6RXgeVHcyEW+ VzCwcCic+P4qszJyN3IU4TbkBQm2lPe02GzUSvFxRo//jvPbeq5NcpgHYLIhNA26DoDNsVOAbY4 w7w67I96c6oLGnm6zPoHFqDv+ChgnqU/9yQ5jPhWVXvxWwum7vahPln6PaK/kCe6BslcqJ8DLmi Z7nPsJ74vmIqNJUbfyQho17nhDXoVcqebKX/mf3NLQNbthq7lvy65fnUt0eSkM79dVWnkDQ5EvO 2RJ2v+GFy1whRtXsUmNUSk/yWFekCIUi4aPilXI6dejDruvJz9l3FAq02Rv4fn2dGKYDemIY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGG4BfMMbWlqgZUIa9uXiq/nJlsW+hwLdKs6Vo9Tz6aJMAath0+VsIJJ2cAYPrSTAQe4iaPig== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2247:b0:587:94d4:9f7 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5906dafcef9mr6576996e87.57.1760341503489; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 00:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.131] (host.62.13.8.86.bitcom.se. [62.13.8.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-5909413ec6csm2928744e87.48.2025.10.13.00.45.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Oct 2025 00:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------nHaP9htZXwlb0LxGMuGE0guc" Message-ID: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:45:02 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: sv-SE To: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Lars Tunkrans Subject: 15-BETA1 attempts to load nonexistent wifi firmware X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.23 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.857]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.08)[-0.082]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::12f:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clTsG5rxKz3X2c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------nHaP9htZXwlb0LxGMuGE0guc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HI      from   /var/log/bsdinstall_log   : /DEBUG: f_getvar: var=[text] value=[wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x] r=0 pkg: No packages available to install matching 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' have been found in the repositories/     -------------------    Installer   made   a  guess  from  info  found   on  Motherboard and  tried  to  install  a  firmware  that  does not  exist .    ( yet )    H/W   is  the  ASROCK    TRX50   motherboard.   with MediaTek  802.11ax Wi-Fi 6E Module.      Is  the  bsdinstaller  expected  to  guess at  what Firmware   can  be  installed  ?     Regards --------------nHaP9htZXwlb0LxGMuGE0guc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

HI 

     from   /var/log/bsdinstall_log   :  

DEBUG: f_getvar: var=[text] value=[wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x] r=0
pkg: No packages available to install matching 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' have been found in the repositories

    -------------------

   Installer   made   a  guess  from  info  found   on  Motherboard  and  tried  to  install  a  firmware  that  does not  exist .    ( yet )   
   H/W   is  the  ASROCK    TRX50   motherboard.   with  MediaTek  802.11ax Wi-Fi 6E Module.

    

     Is  the  bsdinstaller  expected  to  guess at  what  Firmware   can  be  installed  ?  

    Regards   

            

     


      

--------------nHaP9htZXwlb0LxGMuGE0guc-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 08:32:45 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clVwQ5NlHz6CBFr; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 08:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clVwQ4gDWz3cbQ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 08:32:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760344374; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; 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micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8nP7eUhsxcXOAism" Content-Disposition: inline --8nP7eUhsxcXOAism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline hello, i'm trying to debug an issue with sendmail in main where smmsp stops working after upgrading the FreeBSD-sendmail package. i've narrowed this down to the following sequence of system calls: 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,"./df59D8I2px044288",0xecbda905210,0x0) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,".",{ mode=drwxr-xr-x ,inode=129826,size=2,blksize=131072 },AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW) = 0 (0x0) 44288: geteuid() = 0 (0x0) 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,".",{ mode=drwxr-xr-x ,inode=129826,size=2,blksize=131072 },0x0) = 0 (0x0) 44288: openat(AT_FDCWD,"./df59D8I2px044288",O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL,0600) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' this doesn't make sense to me: since "." exists, how can openat() return ENOENT here? the process cwd is /var/spool/clientmqueue, and i've checked that the inode number for this directory doesn't change across upgrade, so we aren't deleting and recreating it. the full truss output is available here: https://people.freebsd.org/~ivy/tmp/smmsp.trace.txt does anyone have an idea what's going on here? --8nP7eUhsxcXOAism Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:11:27 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:11:26 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" To: Lars Tunkrans cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 15-BETA1 attempts to load nonexistent wifi firmware In-Reply-To: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3nr73r7n-8q99-qp28-n43-oop46q921pp9@mnoonqbm.arg> References: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> X-OpenPGP-Key-Id: 0x14003F198FEFA3E77207EE8D2B58B8F83CCF1842 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1314923512-1760346687=:11296" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1314923512-1760346687=:11296 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 13 Oct 2025, Lars Tunkrans wrote: Hi Lars, >      from   /var/log/bsdinstall_log   : > > /DEBUG: f_getvar: var=[text] value=[wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x] r=0 > pkg: No packages available to install matching > 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' have been found in the repositories/ > >     ------------------- > >    Installer   made   a  guess  from  info  found   on  Motherboard and  > tried  to  install  a  firmware  that  does not  exist .    ( yet ) >    H/W   is  the  ASROCK    TRX50   motherboard.   with MediaTek  802.11ax > Wi-Fi 6E Module. > >      Is  the  bsdinstaller  expected  to  guess at  what Firmware   can  be  > installed  ? fwget(8) already knows about it but the install media likely only has the firmware for drivers which we already support in that release (tried to be conservative at some point). Does it just give an error and move on? I believe I wrote the bsdinstall bits in a way that it installs firmware one by one just for these cases where a firmware package does not exist it will still install all the others. Not sure if that all still is the case? /bz -- Bjoern A. Zeeb r15:7 --0-1314923512-1760346687=:11296-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 09:19:54 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clWyt4jfNz6CF96; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:20:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clWyt4Dqrz3lHh; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:20:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760347206; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=0oHmQ/8uzLNrQmshoBX5UYEJCd4EvuauVVwKEYRFRvE=; b=sI4h+QxREn7BDWAUr2/rC2NFWh+zw3o9i1Kf46yF+SwoKr+m0dQyPBcIQX40+e/yEBzEzq Y6NVqtBGsmhJuOosJRMFwxKvIPiPpdqCTAjEeItHBYKSoFO6t4VGHNjP+grNOLqzB3BIzY PakQKkDtn728VuQbTjTwMf8fRVrOUrlTVg3iS/2K4LVf+eyb7E59zW1vUK+R3AMrpDo1H0 cdAfd8EA0reS6YqHt86HL2WNX1vBtNnhtlwjSCpPTRb1fuRrwhyZiAby0C+IxCLPOwETUH DT2Za6pJqPnuGFjbCqZBvWh5AE4FvlY2P4CljthXEVc+XjIF7hH3guuZaWzBgQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760347206; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=0oHmQ/8uzLNrQmshoBX5UYEJCd4EvuauVVwKEYRFRvE=; b=b4mrYh7q/WNC4evAM7dyjUzZCvYjMI94ftftRenn0ehg9XOkfWSftTEBr0Qp2EAC+OveND Utj9jSEfPRxM11mMGryU9CMQGoqzwUyir250X0yVcSGRjOEsK1fVuJ87ObQEalS2rjyxXc ODyXOUT1fJvjvuiyPOw40eN50G5dyS4CmIkZEU31FF4YrfEISl0+0hrRBDb59sWsoKYfUB njQMbuMFFJi5wOmSHggk2QHct0YPAklX68KcJKbFZcBufPka6OF/ovjEDlE5ZVJXU013Lj oiReGEnIpbNFpaF3H5uQsg3evQFbM0t+y7bOtL1Uwo326EzGVA1u7QQjpJnY5A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760347206; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=nvAlnPpfXdd9HwRbhYQO4pWdJq0CFxchiWxMhP/T9P6+Eafb9dBG9mK74SovHDSbmpA1a0 86sZ95218IhEWcWzISF40XgGm+J0+u3Q6xuCHd5h8pnYXSDnTdnMuXoR6tN9lBlZS8y5ru 2QGt2HRaqz6UPubCXZA8ptTWhJpoHSijz2vNOfWcqRzFlIfoGgCsbN1P5Ui8HBQyUcmMeA euNB4epPqDprWOldli4j7GJEM8rj7JAJAyXM6bm8OtRzBDAT0uSOxxbGSiMUkpPrdACARR 1fHmiMQ/z4zfIlEOPkvKEi/hG5KVwzdKALeEgtKaffXed9gmB2Zo8ZEZyCT7RQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ravel.localnet (aclermont-ferrand-653-1-222-123.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.14.66.123]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: olce/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4clWyt0qBMzY1; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:20:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) From: Olivier Certner To: Lexi Winter Cc: fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:19:54 +0200 Message-ID: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> In-Reply-To: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart4139707.kAAoriTUSa"; micalg="pgp-sha384"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --nextPart4139707.kAAoriTUSa Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Olivier Certner To: Lexi Winter Cc: fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:19:54 +0200 Message-ID: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, > 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,"./df59D8I2px044288",0xecbda905210,0x0) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' > 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,".",{ mode=drwxr-xr-x ,inode=129826,size=2,blksize=131072 },AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW) = 0 (0x0) > 44288: geteuid() = 0 (0x0) > 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,".",{ mode=drwxr-xr-x ,inode=129826,size=2,blksize=131072 },0x0) = 0 (0x0) > 44288: openat(AT_FDCWD,"./df59D8I2px044288",O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL,0600) ERR#2 'No such file or directory' > > this doesn't make sense to me: since "." exists, how can openat() return > ENOENT here? How do you come to this conclusion? In what you pasted above, and in the full traces, the openat(AT_FDCWD) fails on the same file ("./df59D8I2px044288") on which the fstatat(AT_FDCWD) just above already failed with ENOENT. So the most plausible explanation is that that file just does not exist at this point. > the process cwd is /var/spool/clientmqueue, and i've checked that the > inode number for this directory doesn't change across upgrade, so we > aren't deleting and recreating it. Unrelated, but that the inode number didn't change in general is not a guarantee that the directory wasn't removed and recreated, that is up to the file system. IIRC, on UFS, the recreated directory could as well get allocated the same inode number. Regards. -- Olivier Certner --nextPart4139707.kAAoriTUSa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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[62.13.8.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-590885638fesm3932468e87.81.2025.10.13.02.23.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Oct 2025 02:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <94d44e1e-fe7f-42c4-8c66-777daed40628@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:23:30 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: 15-BETA1 attempts to load nonexistent wifi firmware To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> <3nr73r7n-8q99-qp28-n43-oop46q921pp9@mnoonqbm.arg> Content-Language: sv-SE From: Lars Tunkrans In-Reply-To: <3nr73r7n-8q99-qp28-n43-oop46q921pp9@mnoonqbm.arg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clX2z2FY5z3nVf Hi  Bjoern    It  say   "  firmware notfound ,    install failed "    in  the dialoge  and  then   moves on  to  the  next  step.     User is not  informed  why  this  happend.     But  after  I later grepped  the whole  ports  tree  after "firmware"    it  was  obvioulsy not  available.  One  may  expect  that  the firmware would exist  if  installation  is  attempted.   //Regards Den 2025-10-13 kl. 11:11, skrev Bjoern A. Zeeb: > On Mon, 13 Oct 2025, Lars Tunkrans wrote: > > Hi Lars, > >>      from   /var/log/bsdinstall_log   : >> >> /DEBUG: f_getvar: var=[text] >> value=[wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x] r=0 >> pkg: No packages available to install matching >> 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' have been found in the >> repositories/ >> >>     ------------------- >> >>    Installer   made   a  guess  from  info  found   on Motherboard >> and  tried  to  install  a  firmware  that  does not  exist .    ( yet ) >>    H/W   is  the  ASROCK    TRX50   motherboard.   with >> MediaTek  802.11ax Wi-Fi 6E Module. >> >>      Is  the  bsdinstaller  expected  to  guess at  what Firmware  >>  can  be  installed  ? > > fwget(8) already knows about it but the install media likely only has > the firmware > for drivers which we already support in that release (tried to be > conservative at > some point). > > Does it just give an error and move on?  I believe I wrote the > bsdinstall bits > in a way that it installs firmware one by one just for these cases > where a > firmware package does not exist it will still install all the others.  > Not sure > if that all still is the case? > > /bz > From nobody Mon Oct 13 09:27:20 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clX7N1jkrz6CFkm; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clX7N12hcz3qf1; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:27:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760347648; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=lwQFiHFBAvRadYRKmNTJ6sKCzSqUlju3lfKtRcaCepQ=; b=Fl5+YJRaFjnoaX9zBjRc8Tc86thKPV4X8pGf7ecdz9yCpFGwDJQOckAcl+EiOwXkh8ZS5F V8ENOcFVfw4LKHbx98Hwn98lxe3ZO3z1CvhvktIJW9OJCL1UavkTuGhOhhp8lELIjVywaG d67zkXqoBndp9hW9bN+ZRInoAP3K2QVQhfM0rSD6x8kUL85UKhlFuLdYz/wybHCgHRqm6V nhtd6RkryPQN1POT3c5UhFEiIdtQHrITiYlZa09EczPb2vQpavUlku7yKZH5b8fGYoYXYQ zVZ4TrFMQ65h+LCPk3t9EcsMf83VpwceZmudvhhzBthOsL8Lczmk5v8YU+mkNQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760347648; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=lwQFiHFBAvRadYRKmNTJ6sKCzSqUlju3lfKtRcaCepQ=; b=Medm8/cx0xFONi7J/vYWfssZJMvDmVQQwFVf2fCNUhCSM4C8XD6R1Z09Vks0dr50Bz505B O2T6Dint5HDRgK3hreWkj9TfwSJAMQjLIwN/TGd0f+bhPYsPByOWtkrjWfjDZU4DPRMuFi 0LWUk58socxyCh/VfTXWrzypTEyxN+hgFAONrIc40rzOKBMh0lzE86TptJg0O0j4gTtONW JPFgpKfPEAs+60XxwgLBOkctBHOEIk3Pm+CLDQnx3a8Fwo8+VJK+6WUUqJDhKJ+uJXS7nN yVXpXQttaNDDDQFRvOrkm+HjKz/a0Bjy2YGRACJOhIsQWukttFtPFmEeCdx0og== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760347648; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=By7BocHSivnTxfPUKwZuIGLb/TNcuHnPDcYr+ixInIQhcIm667tOwMn9J+bsah4qBG5qKo LNyW+fT6T+8SUEj5dcW+AJTVm2XW16leKQFFwKPErS01kHpMJ4PRWJV7SUSoFdDANFBcC0 ajv8h8zGtYWj8lBKLC0WpeSU5kP1lliA+iM87cTZgGzAg50K1SqLYoPJJ5t0Aq7sRX6Co1 RTo7I0FrHPx1yfMIZ2umRdc59d5qFjI/bmpFAqOq0+LWAtQfzW3/+1dLnuadE5iYYQoEX1 VQU+PGGE7AHQN+A2ffkmuTpeMqaKIqOfuMDMnTeLRA0H8fc42CV+0WWBjKkR4w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4clX7M4yWWz1WB; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:27:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 10:27:20 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Olivier Certner Cc: fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Olivier Certner , fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="fCeECQ7M9wJ2QMlP" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> --fCeECQ7M9wJ2QMlP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Olivier Certner wrote in <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel>: > > 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,"./df59D8I2px044288",0xecbda905210,0x0) ERR#2 '= No such file or directory' > > 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,".",{ mode=3Ddrwxr-xr-x ,inode=3D129826,size=3D= 2,blksize=3D131072 },AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW) =3D 0 (0x0) > > 44288: geteuid() =3D 0 (0x0) > > 44288: fstatat(AT_FDCWD,".",{ mode=3Ddrwxr-xr-x ,inode=3D129826,size=3D= 2,blksize=3D131072 },0x0) =3D 0 (0x0) > > 44288: openat(AT_FDCWD,"./df59D8I2px044288",O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL,0600)= ERR#2 'No such file or directory' > >=20 > > this doesn't make sense to me: since "." exists, how can openat() return > > ENOENT here? >=20 > How do you come to this conclusion? In what you pasted above, and in > the full traces, the openat(AT_FDCWD) fails on the same file > ("./df59D8I2px044288") on which the fstatat(AT_FDCWD) just above > already failed with ENOENT. So the most plausible explanation is that > that file just does not exist at this point. the file should not exist, and this is expected. the truss output shows: - "./df59D8I2px044288" does not exist: fstatat() returns ENOENT. this is expected, because this is a new file we are trying to create (if it existed, this would be a different error). - "." exists: fstatat(AT_FDCWD, ".") returns 0 - trying to create "./df59D8I2px044288", which doesn't exist, with O_CREAT|O_EXCL fails with ENOENT. the issue is in the last item: since this file doesn't exist, and we're opening it with O_CREAT, how can this fail? after some more debugging, i think what's going on here is that pkg(8) is deleting and recreating /var/spool/mqueue on upgrade, which means smmsp's open fd to that directory is no longer valid, and therefore openat() returns this unusual error. i am not sure how to fix this, but the impact is that upgrading the FreeBSD-sendmail package breaks sendmail on a running system, so we need to fix this somehow for 15.0. i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that. --fCeECQ7M9wJ2QMlP Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:32:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:32:01 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" To: Lars Tunkrans cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 15-BETA1 attempts to load nonexistent wifi firmware In-Reply-To: <94d44e1e-fe7f-42c4-8c66-777daed40628@gmail.com> Message-ID: <77o5736s-n5o5-2254-194-099ssoqsp38@SerrOFQ.bet> References: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> <3nr73r7n-8q99-qp28-n43-oop46q921pp9@mnoonqbm.arg> <94d44e1e-fe7f-42c4-8c66-777daed40628@gmail.com> X-OpenPGP-Key-Id: 0x14003F198FEFA3E77207EE8D2B58B8F83CCF1842 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="0-2000272540-1760347789=:11296" Content-ID: <2o257o2o-nn6-3081-5on3-s0058125459@mnoonqbm.arg> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-2000272540-1760347789=:11296 Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Content-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2025, Lars Tunkrans wrote: Hi, >    It  say   "  firmware notfound ,    install failed "    in  the dialoge  > and  then   moves on  to  the  next  step. >     User is not  informed  why  this  happend.     But  after  I later > grepped  the whole  ports  tree  after "firmware" >    it  was  obvioulsy not  available.  One  may  expect  that  the firmware > would exist  if  installation  is  attempted. Actually, fwget in the installer should do this over the network; so the firmware should be available as package in the repo. net/wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod@mt792x does exist in the ports tree. There's always chances, that a package wasn't built. If you manually run fwget, does it install the firmware now on the running system? /bz -- Bjoern A. Zeeb r15:7 --0-2000272540-1760347789=:11296-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 09:38:51 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clXNn4pdyz6CGCR for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:39:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Received: from forward500b.mail.yandex.net (forward500b.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c02:900:1:45:d181:d500]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clXNl6K68z3v79 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:39:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bu7cher@yandex.ru) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yandex.ru header.s=mail header.b=KZEiKHj4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=yandex.ru; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bu7cher@yandex.ru designates 2a02:6b8:c02:900:1:45:d181:d500 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bu7cher@yandex.ru Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-67.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-67.sas.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c23:143b:0:640:90e9:0]) by forward500b.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id B6D99C0BF5; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 12:38:53 +0300 (MSK) Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-67.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id qcKBi7ULR8c0-bjuiHFqg; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 12:38:53 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1760348333; bh=taWNhiI5R0AjdoOy/g397K5vf9NWNGMcbRL8leMZDgQ=; h=In-Reply-To:To:From:Date:References:Subject:Message-ID; b=KZEiKHj4r6f7+dZ2tG2acarzYPjGFJHGztSqBziggJ/xi1UehRYMEtuknQPPxYS5H er9UWqxE9zABrId9lZuYbgyTiSzq+tOaLVhL6LgriZk3pw1RNRwfR4HjTq1xa3zDrB GdrpgyLQe5skFvq2xILXzLgPY+/YZiriXmp0/Xk4= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 12:38:51 +0300 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: ipfw: ipfw: Adding record failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device Content-Language: ru, en-US To: A FreeBSD User , FreeBSD CURRENT References: <20251011155130.47db5448@thor.sb211.local> From: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Autocrypt: addr=bu7cher@yandex.ru; keydata= xsBNBEwBF1kBCADB9sXFhBEUy8qQ4X63Y8eBatYMHGEFWN9ypS5lI3RE6qQW2EYbxNk7qUC5 21YIIS1mMFVBEfvR7J9uc7yaYgFCEb6Sce1RSO4ULN2mRKGHP3/Sl0ijZEjWHV91hY1YTHEF ZW/0GYinDf56sYpDDehaBF5wkWIo1+QK5nmj3vl0DIDCMNd7QEiWpyLVwECgLX2eOAXByT8B bCqVhJGcG6iFP7/B9Ll6uX5gb8thM9LM+ibwErDBVDGiOgvfxqidab7fdkh893IBCXa82H9N CNwnEtcgzh+BSKK5BgvPohFMgRwjti37TSxwLu63QejRGbZWSz3OK3jMOoF63tCgn7FvABEB AAHNJUFuZHJleSBWLiBFbHN1a292IDxidTdjaGVyQHlhbmRleC5ydT7CwHgEEwECACIFAkwB F1kCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEAHF6gQQyKF6qmYIAI6ekfm1VA4T vqankI1ISE6ku4jV7UlpIQlEbE7/8n3Zd6teJ+pGOQhN5qk8QE7utdPdbktAzi+x7LIJVzUw 4TywZLXGrkP7VKYkfg6oyCGyzITghefQeJtr2TN4hYCkzPWpylkue8MtmqfZv/6royqwTbN+ +E09FQNvTgRUYJYTeQ1qOsxNRycwvw3dr2rOfuxShbzaHBB1pBIjGrMg8fC5pd65ACH5zuFV A0CoTNGMDrEZSfBkTW604UUHFFXeCoC3dwDZRKOWJ3GmMXns65Ai5YkA63BSHEE1Qle3VBhd cG1w0CB5FBV3pB27UVnf0jEbysrDqW4qN7XMRFSWNAzOwE0ETAEXWQEIAJ2p6l9LBoqdH/0J PEFDY2t2gTvAuzz+8zs3R03dFuHcNbOwjvWCG0aOmVpAzkRa8egn5JB4sZaFUtKPYJEQ1Iu+ LUBwgvtXf4vWpzC67zs2dDuiW4LamH5p6xkTD61aHR7mCB3bg2TUjrDWn2Jt44cvoYxj3dz4 S49U1rc9ZPgD5axCNv45j72tggWlZvpefThP7xT1OlNTUqye2gAwQravXpZkl5JG4eOqJVIU X316iE3qso0iXRUtO7OseBf0PiVmk+wCahdreHOeOxK5jMhYkPKVn7z1sZiB7W2H2TojbmcK HZC22sz7Z/H36Lhg1+/RCnGzdEcjGc8oFHXHCxUAEQEAAcLAXwQYAQIACQUCTAEXWQIbDAAK CRABxeoEEMihegkYCAC3ivGYNe2taNm/4Nx5GPdzuaAJGKWksV+w9mo7dQvU+NmI2az5w8vw 98OmX7G0OV9snxMW+6cyNqBrVFTu33VVNzz9pnqNCHxGvj5dL5ltP160JV2zw2bUwJBYsgYQ WfyJJIM7l3gv5ZS3DGqaGIm9gOK1ANxfrR5PgPzvI9VxDhlr2juEVMZYAqPLEJe+SSxbwLoz BcFCNdDAyXcaAzXsx/E02YWm1hIWNRxanAe7Vlg7OL+gvLpdtrYCMg28PNqKNyrQ87LQ49O9 50IIZDOtNFeR0FGucjcLPdS9PiEqCoH7/waJxWp6ydJ+g4OYRBYNM0EmMgy1N85JJrV1mi5i In-Reply-To: <20251011155130.47db5448@thor.sb211.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.06 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.961]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yandex.ru,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yandex.ru:s=mail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a02:6b8:c00::/40]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[2a02:6b8:c02:900:1:45:d181:d500:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yandex.ru:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yandex.ru]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yandex.ru]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yandex.ru:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clXNl6K68z3v79 On 11.10.2025 16:51, A FreeBSD User wrote: > While running the skript, each time an address is picked up and inserted to the table, I see > this on the console: > > [...] > added(reverted): 45.143.220.228/32 0 > ipfw: Adding record failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device > added(reverted): 68.64.211.117/32 0 > ipfw: Adding record failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device > added(reverted): 113.141.70.204/32 0 > ipfw: Adding record failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device > added(reverted): 77.247.110.245/32 0 > ipfw: Adding record failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device > > I never saw this happen on 14-STABLE with the very same scripts. What is the cause of this > ioctl issue? Hi, there is a patch that seems fixes the issue https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53050 Can you test it and make sure that the fix works for you? -- WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov From nobody Mon Oct 13 09:57:14 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clXns4188z6CHSp; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:57:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clXns3TSbz3xNs; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:57:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760349441; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=dAo+P1z9A8IQfInGZCBnCv47V8GfxrfhlUB+PNAR3yU=; b=k+ECYvRJKCEGDpeNdJxHmabKXP+kjlUCaGEEopoPdjUE4oh2oSQfK+x35qh72wDnZNp8dK jUeYgdlcubY7lmoRSp7tXNXyXMXTNOPrCY9vyNZq2BsEA3j8ndmAXdDk9oxaxD7rioLCJa jMutuBJQuLqoAYPlY/1Bc5a4IAE7wsOSkszU33Uto9+n6fSz7TOzn8Pu3/2d2jEenwsol5 HGZ+LgtWK/sFN1pVKGbL/U7/wdkkAtunUFOuPpvrnNZ+2yh/eYGAwd2WZxYuna+pdXEGlx Sm2obU69F/xSLiIMTpFZXrYDnD/MeBhopafRAjT1p3YsedG6riXQ0nvba/BhOg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760349441; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=dAo+P1z9A8IQfInGZCBnCv47V8GfxrfhlUB+PNAR3yU=; b=gNVoTWCKihGO4QkHJ+UT4v+EildK3wnGZUJDAylPEy++vl6heBxDuKnHQc7nKKoBK4gyXv 61pxJYQcegRb1cX1Ln1HGhH31n0FQm2ypT+Ue2b1UrpXNPL66caTQbbaeP3ru6rYZ6gRRx NtpHGUYypg14oQTlUKX3USk2Jif3efeR0XKa1OI/ZI6RzcIpsKugVJMqPE36jixxrCXo0w nK/7fk4jHc39Dg+ecD4MKHnUqsL+x77XQziG2OnXwchkys+PPU7NVMoA6Dh5iE5jV6nhFe NFW/+2O1XyrfWT0sqaLhZcWv1ZdUEe3nO1IrGZ+UIaOhv+iomElLbF72lbO5iA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760349441; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=TeVYPdXKEXD3yWrYYyxn5oQu/P5eMfkWeF1lY8BFkrHlkr0yeY7RrRW4bd8Tvk1zqpDY5+ q1+6i85TAs+cDlyrtxKZ37qZJL0Ck+CuOGasbKYDZhHkWtpDsmNQgLgXRfCKKEyzBESqts XNta9RSnuzdAlawpfD0FgiOKNtDY935ai2jwwDvNt/ndIiXDqoUojuBMpMTnUR8tHvUz3v H+XP5hh8EIuUe7lcCNyys3QA0yWoEO44mb27t9qaGCsP1Z7fPiD+k/PPByO1qV9XyfNzCZ mIaLLaYRC3lSLN39ehFal73DVE4JbnLH2OneT8vmgKcRCFuhYbNHtOg5+bMXcw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ravel.localnet (aclermont-ferrand-653-1-222-123.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.14.66.123]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: olce/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4clXnr6sX8z1cZ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 09:57:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) From: Olivier Certner To: Lexi Winter Cc: fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:57:14 +0200 Message-ID: <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> In-Reply-To: References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2843477.TYJnH3iKXO"; micalg="pgp-sha384"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --nextPart2843477.TYJnH3iKXO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Olivier Certner To: Lexi Winter Cc: fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:57:14 +0200 Message-ID: <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 > - trying to create "./df59D8I2px044288", which doesn't exist, with > O_CREAT|O_EXCL fails with ENOENT. Oh, indeed, I had missed the O_CREAT|O_EXCL. I'll grab some more caffeine... > after some more debugging, i think what's going on here is that pkg(8) > is deleting and recreating /var/spool/mqueue on upgrade, which means > smmsp's open fd to that directory is no longer valid, and therefore > openat() returns this unusual error. Yes, if the directory was removed but is still open, FSes will typically return an error at lookup (which is a sub-process of creating a file there) in this directory (e.g., UFS returns ENOENT). > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase > somewhere: for example, we could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell > the user to do that. Most probably it will need too, yes. -- Olivier Certner --nextPart2843477.TYJnH3iKXO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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[62.13.8.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-590885788f7sm3945808e87.110.2025.10.13.03.09.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6068ff37-e426-41b8-b0dd-76755e6c4a9f@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 12:09:08 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: 15-BETA1 attempts to load nonexistent wifi firmware To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> <3nr73r7n-8q99-qp28-n43-oop46q921pp9@mnoonqbm.arg> <94d44e1e-fe7f-42c4-8c66-777daed40628@gmail.com> <77o5736s-n5o5-2254-194-099ssoqsp38@SerrOFQ.bet> Content-Language: sv-SE From: Lars Tunkrans In-Reply-To: <77o5736s-n5o5-2254-194-099ssoqsp38@SerrOFQ.bet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clY3c3D78z41RM  Hi ,  No   its  missing  from  repository Installed  15-Beta1    on  this  machine  this  morning.  Using wired networking,  Motherboard  also  has  this  Wifi circutry. I also downloaded fresh  ports  from  GITHUB   this  morning. Ports  have    "wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod "  " wifi-firmware-mt7601u-kmod" I built  and installed    wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod and   mt7925/*  is now  in  /boot/firmware/mediatek/mt7925  # fwget -v Trying to match device 0x15ff in class network and vendor intel with pci_network_intel Trying to match device 0x15ff in class network and vendor intel with pci_network_intel Trying to match device 0x0717 in class network and vendor mediatek with pci_network_mediatek Trying to match device 0x8125 in class network and vendor realtek with pci_network_realtek Needed firmware packages: 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' pkg: No packages available to install matching 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' have been found in the repositories  Regards Den 2025-10-13 kl. 11:32, skrev Bjoern A. Zeeb: > On Mon, 13 Oct 2025, Lars Tunkrans wrote: > > Hi, > >>    It  say   "  firmware notfound , install failed "    in  the >> dialoge  and  then   moves on  to the  next  step. >>     User is not  informed  why  this  happend.     But  after  I >> later grepped  the whole  ports  tree  after "firmware" >>    it  was  obvioulsy not  available.  One  may  expect  that the >> firmware would exist  if  installation  is  attempted. > > Actually, fwget in the installer should do this over the network; so the > firmware should be available as package in the repo. > > net/wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod@mt792x does exist in the ports tree. > There's always chances, that a package wasn't built. > > If you manually run fwget, does it install the firmware now on the > running system? > > /bz > From nobody Mon Oct 13 10:23:00 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clYMc140Wz6CKFD; 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mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4clYMb43vhz2g3; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 10:23:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:23:00 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Olivier Certner Cc: fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Olivier Certner , fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="5zCpKriaJ8gfNiqX" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> --5zCpKriaJ8gfNiqX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>: > > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that. >=20 > Most probably it will need too, yes. proposed fix at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53061. i really don't like this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probably the least disruptive solution for users. --5zCpKriaJ8gfNiqX Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaOzTAAAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YIZEAQCUWW4RQmuPFSob9WIqgIiSXmI3Z3k06g37fD/LNGONQAD/XgNso/HiXtJ3 Zt3hUf4rZrK3hi2Nf9P86mRktEYqNQw= =S0XB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5zCpKriaJ8gfNiqX-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 13:07:34 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cld1W2dJZz6CW82 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 13:07:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Received: from mx.catwhisker.org (mx.catwhisker.org [107.204.234.170]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cld1V6HHKz3KXb for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 13:07:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from david@catwhisker.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from albert.catwhisker.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTP id 59DD7ZiS022490; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 13:07:35 GMT (envelope-from david@albert.catwhisker.org) Received: (from david@localhost) by albert.catwhisker.org (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 59DD7Yba022489; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 06:07:34 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from david) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 06:07:34 -0700 From: David Wolfskill To: "Andrey V. Elsukov" Cc: A FreeBSD User , FreeBSD CURRENT Subject: Re: ipfw: ipfw: Adding record failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: David Wolfskill , "Andrey V. Elsukov" , A FreeBSD User , FreeBSD CURRENT References: <20251011155130.47db5448@thor.sb211.local> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MgHMNT5U2lMVzdQO" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cld1V6HHKz3KXb --MgHMNT5U2lMVzdQO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 13, 2025 at 12:38:51PM +0300, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote: > ... > Hi, there is a patch that seems fixes the issue > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53050 >=20 > Can you test it and make sure that the fix works for you? >=20 > --=20 > WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov > .... Works for me; thanks! (Details in a comment in the review.) Peace, david --=20 David H. Wolfskill david@catwhisker.org See https://www.catwhisker.org/~david/publickey.gpg for my public key. --MgHMNT5U2lMVzdQO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iNUEARYKAH0WIQSTLzOSbomIK53fjFliipiWhXYx5QUCaOz5ll8UgAAAAAAuAChp c3N1ZXItZnByQG5vdGF0aW9ucy5vcGVucGdwLmZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0OTMy RjMzOTI2RTg5ODgyQjlEREY4QzU5NjI4QTk4OTY4NTc2MzFFNQAKCRBiipiWhXYx 5WoCAP4s0t+XQi4aDmOPYO4getiO/d5/jTyC4Xf8VBvpHJAyCwEAo0AQh82Jn0sJ sjhnB+NL0RVRQ7SztrTpPbE9bUnhaws= =mmBP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MgHMNT5U2lMVzdQO-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 13:18:28 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cldG03GNRz6CWgQ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 13:18:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bz@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cldG02k9kz3Ns3; 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Mon, 13 Oct 2025 13:18:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from nv.t4-02.sbone.de (nv.t4-02.sbone.de [IPv6:fde9:577b:c1a9:4902:0:7404:2:22]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.sbone.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E931B2D029D8; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 13:18:28 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 13:18:28 +0000 (UTC) From: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" To: Lars Tunkrans cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 15-BETA1 attempts to load nonexistent wifi firmware In-Reply-To: <6068ff37-e426-41b8-b0dd-76755e6c4a9f@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> <3nr73r7n-8q99-qp28-n43-oop46q921pp9@mnoonqbm.arg> <94d44e1e-fe7f-42c4-8c66-777daed40628@gmail.com> <77o5736s-n5o5-2254-194-099ssoqsp38@SerrOFQ.bet> <6068ff37-e426-41b8-b0dd-76755e6c4a9f@gmail.com> X-OpenPGP-Key-Id: 0x14003F198FEFA3E77207EE8D2B58B8F83CCF1842 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1362188299-1760361508=:11296" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1362188299-1760361508=:11296 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 13 Oct 2025, Lars Tunkrans wrote: > >  Hi ,  No   its  missing  from  repository > > Installed  15-Beta1    on  this  machine  this  morning.  Using wired > networking,  Motherboard  also  has  this  Wifi circutry. > > I also downloaded fresh  ports  from  GITHUB   this  morning. > > Ports  have    "wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod "  " wifi-firmware-mt7601u-kmod" > > I built  and installed    wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod and   mt7925/*  is now  in  > /boot/firmware/mediatek/mt7925 > > >  # fwget -v > Trying to match device 0x15ff in class network and vendor intel with > pci_network_intel > Trying to match device 0x15ff in class network and vendor intel with > pci_network_intel > Trying to match device 0x0717 in class network and vendor mediatek with > pci_network_mediatek > Trying to match device 0x8125 in class network and vendor realtek with > pci_network_realtek > Needed firmware packages: 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' > pkg: No packages available to install matching > 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' have been found in the repositories Doh! Now I see it. The name is wrong in fwget; I thought that was fixed a long time ago. Okay, fix is here: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53067 /bz -- Bjoern A. Zeeb r15:7 --0-1362188299-1760361508=:11296-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 14:05:27 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clfJH2040z6CZSR for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 14:05:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drsnx60@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clfJH06l8z3Xch for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 14:05:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drsnx60@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-57ea78e0618so4940682e87.0 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 07:05:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1760364328; x=1760969128; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iShj7iyZhCVx4UQQE+Bnn90rbaTUUSZ0LpVoulauXL8=; b=ODfbLTWfgSUtOCAlV8GA++/YJBqXf6o6quDGLtkeg2Vb5O1xNoPKnPDOpS/qWLGkGk 6J97MI9Onj+IJFwgf7FJLz0/WTjpbqt0OXE8UxGw/fhYS2FeufOi5heTnIIHxh2buahs bSzsThZZM8qmNrWBgz84scpwye+hUi+lDcJTiG148QO8lNw91+fM+fUs85tQlFch4Eu7 ngSCJadoBF5J7IejC2QgWY50tFmiL2WNFyxIldZYXK8WsLjGDg7ovzTS9tH/aDzW9BSj t6s2BsOJn+hZjXAoYu/hU3lgcb3UkO9NbgMtysLyd99pnD5UNAlk/Q7rod01AtfFvcPS Wm/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760364328; x=1760969128; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iShj7iyZhCVx4UQQE+Bnn90rbaTUUSZ0LpVoulauXL8=; b=RLUreUwH6qgFgVO4hbF6CZj7ZCiR3bNQvZ9nm+/me07L9jsuCjS4+gw9K5Ls+Cfy1S sc3VxMMYNZpZF8z9HLCV2LQPAc8gMxD9dWWNXV1Ram5s3D92EEE+jeohrQZIKyP1sokN pDvXl50Ht8Zf0wdBfVyrXJccsC3pAo+Xa1D/R9SdWUuNRxz3O25YEFrL3WhBdLUaFQ6F jEwrBLVVp/MFQlQotRPUqMQbCr0bqSUG2JL04bF0Ln1V/zZKeYXUAp/26Hn+uApxAlAy x2ZA6xHlHBv2jwF7HV3mtaAbtAJP+L1nitY9hiMh9M3CZ/iTF32cmYSv84dlgIO4RcrU H9Pg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxOYPDIQCLv6rjlfMNQQr/fE66LObdTBcVhO6zT7mNtD/Y+UwrU S/cPaT0U4S9errAmbJ1xxUQ1u90ysQrXeaZ5lGuS9E7Ke+SsbjGVsmKL7FaMjA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctqZxhKgDO9f86Wnq4+MIZbHhcjzpax5aAVjNZppgONjSgTEeg/XUIhPDgdbPN dNyA0nYKld4mLeAOUZK/VnyaDS+esdhk7w6cC8Ov6Fq4fd06LRYLEi7tur4+ioCw/7/U+Ni4xkw ZNaQv6tHHBnUipJfuxautO8rVpZApWb02j8tkKtbHYh/lS1vpk+KiYUrMylWDI5KSWINpsQHlwD Z6g6IhO19Y8rvcsxBFuWv/W59x4TBV3kVTemOsOfpt5mZNZcTFiGSb/eVkoEHlpP+bRF7JJF1C6 HjVg/rM5ejU012ryteUTn62+wH8kq79CXFo9T/TbdR0TH3SFakdCMfgMqD7gLRb8Vt6XQu6q4Ey sXyNQut9y56Q4GsVO/ya6TfeCTMQ74nxLVG/2tMwxc+9RfV7/b5+QUoGbHtSXaIiBh3g7dO4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHzDj+7cynXGTO915LtVQXYvlKuq5DupgCZ9Enl7A8lyjvlLdN/i7iMdGtHiOmwgYayPnGkKg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:24c6:20b0:590:7b29:77c8 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5907b297992mr4668447e87.17.1760364327925; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 07:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.131] (host.62.13.8.86.bitcom.se. [62.13.8.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-590881f91aasm4201148e87.38.2025.10.13.07.05.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Oct 2025 07:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <460a63d0-5b33-4872-a23d-bf06b5127664@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 16:05:27 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: 15-BETA1 attempts to load nonexistent wifi firmware To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" Cc: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <5b722335-c392-4cd1-b89b-16be8432a156@gmail.com> <3nr73r7n-8q99-qp28-n43-oop46q921pp9@mnoonqbm.arg> <94d44e1e-fe7f-42c4-8c66-777daed40628@gmail.com> <77o5736s-n5o5-2254-194-099ssoqsp38@SerrOFQ.bet> <6068ff37-e426-41b8-b0dd-76755e6c4a9f@gmail.com> Content-Language: sv-SE From: Lars Tunkrans In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clfJH06l8z3Xch Den 2025-10-13 kl. 15:18, skrev Bjoern A. Zeeb: > On Mon, 13 Oct 2025, Lars Tunkrans wrote: > >> >>  Hi ,  No   its  missing  from  repository >> >> Installed  15-Beta1    on  this  machine  this  morning.  Using wired >> networking,  Motherboard  also  has  this  Wifi circutry. >> >> I also downloaded fresh  ports  from  GITHUB   this  morning. >> >> Ports  have    "wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod "  " wifi-firmware-mt7601u-kmod" >> >> I built  and installed    wifi-firmware-mt76-kmod and   mt7925/*  is >> now  in  /boot/firmware/mediatek/mt7925 >> >> >>  # fwget -v >> Trying to match device 0x15ff in class network and vendor intel with >> pci_network_intel >> Trying to match device 0x15ff in class network and vendor intel with >> pci_network_intel >> Trying to match device 0x0717 in class network and vendor mediatek >> with pci_network_mediatek >> Trying to match device 0x8125 in class network and vendor realtek >> with pci_network_realtek >> Needed firmware packages: 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' >> pkg: No packages available to install matching >> 'wifi-firmware-mediatek-kmod-mt792x' have been found in the repositories > > Doh!  Now I see it.  The name is wrong in fwget;  I thought that was > fixed a long time ago. > > Okay, fix is here: > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53067 > > /bz >   Cool ,  happy  to  have  helped  improve the  system  !      //Lars From nobody Mon Oct 13 18:06:02 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clldz1kNSz6C847 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:06:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yx1-f45.google.com (mail-yx1-f45.google.com [74.125.224.45]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clldy3k9cz45xY for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none); spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of adrian.chadd@gmail.com designates 74.125.224.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by mail-yx1-f45.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6354a4b4871so5756463d50.2 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:06:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760378773; x=1760983573; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=p81K3xMgfBII6VftbwPc1QY9Rs243O/LrZ/Wn7s/M/A=; b=MBQOWrmaanGyxJqiOPktKpmwItXJRwoXaH9wHRUW0PLLnXkWw+Mi87cmaXt6WzCGGM +aEf1mYgRZLeXoqpF8ag0UmXErKG7OWczsXHR7+bV2OhE7hZOnmk5NTL3qVKFoRRKRCQ ZFdXVKq73TDXdav/BjKgn2/uOQ9hKfTMzWej4cYHNr7FyGsg88dSWOnMCaEX/c4sdNHA sh1mnVEqLX3W8myYsWW6e51uXVBVByJdV98sakPEM34NwForvHbB8zk1BypAflIjXkcY Tu7pS71gXJMQde3Wb1Z7tsHl7zhMQKO1/zpWbHBos+zonVTHFDUsje09TYpXh6csXd5x x4PA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW9I9824Rv1lxM9k9lvBzFHZMTdU+6ReyI5JnKc8CK9JcPPwR06ngAEe/8VcO1dGSkPBaycPA/i@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyeGMC4gx7UzCcu1+hLTEiKwaAtz32tVmSOuhhcrYjh7ndwx+q9 dcEcEoGiN+7XdkNdjia2LQP615AbT5CTisf+DKzoC3Ty8cshBwBSWAB7KiECkqLNuA3+LUXOwEE KqsRiOvhjBUthm3RWBFkgpMItu6G2GYfSxA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctHHH68639KR9s2SfBODGjz0XF8wQ68hUStPdyTPSgG3i1pPbqQOyqgBifisfH zq/gJycxY7b8Hx+hVYbMeOB8en7yR4f77YYpv4jhBVUS54m7+9lioc8rANNP0YcJE8CACWHijZB yK6bTJcwLqVwe8nmf0y6+l7+6ffBj9Bukk535xUf7IgWxlVxacdcaTrNFg633XE2MvlYXhlo7lE VNy4mGqb+XsEdXNBLagr9Xlc9xT/dCQbQmy X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHSXKAmnQaYvSlgXD33E/tOqqLs9M+nG0UJfnX5DBKJkSO1+OXKgDHPT/hptGZjWnDfqpt2OYDDWqUqjJy/VNk= X-Received: by 2002:a53:b78e:0:b0:63c:f5a7:3f6 with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-63cf5a7090bmr5870049d50.58.1760378773458; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> In-Reply-To: From: Adrian Chadd Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:06:02 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWAuhipabr0GeGC77Z9Y9ouPCAhca60tcnGA80Tykgk78gcKTlsM8glbc2c Message-ID: Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists To: Olivier Certner , fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007652e506410e1f86" X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.68 / 15.00]; RBL_VIRUSFREE_BOTNET(2.00)[74.125.224.45:from]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.993]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[adrian@freebsd.org,adrianchadd@gmail.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.27)[0.272]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,none]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[adrian@freebsd.org,adrianchadd@gmail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[74.125.224.45:from]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:74.125.0.0/16]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[74.125.224.45:from]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:74.125.0.0/16, country:US]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clldy3k9cz45xY --0000000000007652e506410e1f86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ... On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter wrote: > Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>: > > > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we > > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that. > > > > Most probably it will need too, yes. > > proposed fix at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53061. i really don't like > this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probably the > least disruptive solution for users. > I'm curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded package? -a --0000000000007652e506410e1f86 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
...

On Mon, 13 Oct 2= 025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter <ivy@freebs= d.org> wrote:
Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>:
> > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that. >
> Most probably it will need too, yes.

proposed fix at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53061.=C2=A0 i re= ally don't like
this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probably the least disruptive solution for users.

I&= #39;m curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded packag= e?


-a
=C2=A0
<= /div> --0000000000007652e506410e1f86-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 18:15:47 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cllsR5ZbGz6C8JY; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:16:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) Received: from prime.gushi.org (prime.gushi.org [IPv6:2620:137:6000:10::142]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) client-digest SHA384) (Client CN "prime.gushi.org", Issuer "E7" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cllsR2SS6z47rc; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:16:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple ([IPv6:2601:602:580:f8ad:a8f5:cca7:1dd0:c0b2]) (authenticated bits=0) by prime.gushi.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPSA id 59DIG2gK010726 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:16:03 GMT (envelope-from freebsd@gushi.org) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 prime.gushi.org 59DIG2gK010726 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gushi.org; s=prime2014; t=1760379363; bh=fVx/bwsskRUim/ssWj8TweQSFeN5GrerI6j2hxmnc5w=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; z=From:=20"Dan=20Mahoney=20(Ports)"=20|Subject:= 20Re:=20openat("./...",=20O_CREAT)=20fails=20even=20though=20the=2 0directory=20exists|Date:=20Mon,=2013=20Oct=202025=2011:15:47=20-0 700|In-Reply-To:=20|Cc:=20Olivier=20Certner=20,=0D=0A=20fs@freebsd.org,=0D=0A=20current@freebsd.org|To:=20Adri an=20Chadd=20|References:=20=20<2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel>=0D=0A=20=20<6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>=0D=0 A=20=0D=0A=20; b=hA2M/mt2k4n4ondc6l0brqlX9a1sVKYGmM+76W44I9MKZeIpL0LfZBobihn4/fz0V WCcdiYZuN822aeGVU9ifaSIVbSu3OlpBb2vXZ4uDZonYjHsEa5JacT5XVLXvz6ZlHi AzQSM1b4kApBL7OTTbUsBtHYPV2QGdq+VoVTeASXdykT97HqbNINVNGfFVQsYKQl7V XzuGtdq49mnXqGndYXudUJfjGBkszPrHcCERdi5d+4p5e+Q4oMGjA7uBCqH1Y5dwZc QM4/lH8dS9I3tKDTimoEqpOd7yoo99ieVgtCRDhpCSxfWevFuncjomS3lRVXrsTmAC HHsRhPhm4lsSg== X-Authentication-Warning: prime.gushi.org: Host [IPv6:2601:602:580:f8ad:a8f5:cca7:1dd0:c0b2] claimed to be smtpclient.apple From: "Dan Mahoney (Ports)" Message-Id: <411C1A2F-96BF-41F2-88D4-FC6B8C45D23F@gushi.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_04F21C61-3B8D-4641-8AFE-B77132760695" List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3864.100.1.1.5\)) Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:15:47 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Olivier Certner , fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org To: Adrian Chadd References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3864.100.1.1.5) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (prime.gushi.org [IPv6:2620:137:6000:10:0:0:0:142]); Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:16:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:393507, ipnet:2620:137:6000::/44, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cllsR2SS6z47rc --Apple-Mail=_04F21C61-3B8D-4641-8AFE-B77132760695 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 13, 2025, at 11:06=E2=80=AFAM, Adrian Chadd = wrote: >=20 > ... >=20 > On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter > wrote: >> Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>: >> > > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we >> > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that. >> >=20 >> > Most probably it will need too, yes. >>=20 >> proposed fix at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53061. i really don't = like >> this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probably = the >> least disruptive solution for users. >=20 > I'm curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded = package? I mean, I've seen freebsd-update restart sshd regularly. There's = precedent for this. As a regular user, this wouldn't break my = expectations if there was a good reason. -Dan --Apple-Mail=_04F21C61-3B8D-4641-8AFE-B77132760695 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Oct 13, 2025, at 11:06=E2=80=AFAM, Adrian Chadd = <adrian@freebsd.org> wrote:

...

On Mon, 13 = Oct 2025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter <ivy@freebsd.org> = wrote:
Olivier Certner wrote in = <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>:
> > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, = we
> > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do = that.
>
> Most probably it will need too, yes.

proposed fix at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53061.  i really = don't like
this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probably = the
least disruptive solution for = users.

I'm curious - why are we NOT = restarting services after an upgraded = package?

I mean, I've = seen freebsd-update restart sshd regularly.  There's precedent for = this.  As a regular user, this wouldn't break my expectations if = there was a good = reason.

-Dan

= --Apple-Mail=_04F21C61-3B8D-4641-8AFE-B77132760695-- From nobody Mon Oct 13 18:21:49 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clm0P4NXDz6C8lx for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:22:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Received: from mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clm0N3X2jz49fX for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:22:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ketas.si.pri.ee header.s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096 header.b=g4eSP8sb; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=ketas.si.pri.ee; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee designates 2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee X-Original-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ketas.si.pri.ee; s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096; t=1760379712; bh=nBsnZHYQ50+qODztWmP3EuAi5af3P138lDRhIb+Sc64=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=g4eSP8sb29Z9we03xm4YSUgb6rNwDdVhMu8v/b0E1whyavw6UCeoRCNLAdKIf8l9d 8HmL5NdlIGwIHCPD4w1nWrbvfCpANerNrItQZEhh6WPdX4U4+1T2L1fGY9jWIuEbs0 IrTK75rkOCojRrfSMgZ10hdK7FuoxYrsEeWRbB9z7/C73vJ+ue2Z534QV0rvtH3VxH knuI4RrkK7e4IZapXECtDOeYDgohkCF260MwpY3zUiVKbMtBmqiL88a1VR/WdZEbCO auxZzjQXk6yM4Pfe4VEOPqtJAyVUqegpcjpDAj8F1HJs8muSPusd0RwX8M+dxnzptL YIjz+rbu3YukarrB3QiGyXWq1dQpSLpZsXGWowye2SKdt61ydbO9cF9Adq9/WT81T8 Yl7MDEIYmXMgZi4rwkAP8+MQvbsKn2L98RB5MJMNEoYcCT0x5RVQ2gerNAjvhdKZEJ 875rDChX7LpEHv63sf1viLU5gMxcorkHBLk9N2rrL/pHkxXSCuIFP0O5hbfTmmhy7c PPbmRtSSr+P6ELj3hEugnipK7wgrlJ2D84S0Bc5HBB+gq3T+HWmxdOEJmRzKsf3F+z J3eIZx540HWxTxq4EwWqQFOXCUvnhKHa+BNlXNTbCgCV0P752j+n1lxTLjMXl5hDnd KI0yc2QNb/5JsI+KCNnCZSC8= Received: from ehlo.thunderbird.net (0115-0000-0000-0000-13c8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13c8::115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBFA95CC172 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 21:21:51 +0300 (EEST) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 21:21:49 +0300 From: Sulev-Madis Silber To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> Message-ID: <51721B50-CDEB-4B93-9CA6-1B2141180869@ketas.si.pri.ee> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.80 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clm0N3X2jz49fX On October 13, 2025 9:06:02 PM GMT+03:00, Adrian Chadd wrote: >=2E=2E=2E > >On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter wrote: > >> Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242=2EZv9zXsTiuT@ravel>: >> > > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we >> > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that=2E >> > >> > Most probably it will need too, yes=2E >> >> proposed fix at https://reviews=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/D53061=2E i really don= 't like >> this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probably t= he >> least disruptive solution for users=2E >> > >I'm curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded packag= e? > > >-a i hope this wasn't proposal of blanket restarts everywhere=2E this could g= et bad quickly=2E i recall friends cursing linux distros going one step fur= ther, starting everything that's installed with default config many things would happily run after update, nginx even has special no inte= rrupt upgrade which replaces binary for sshd it would maybe ok but who knows=2E all around restarting is bad= =2E at least optout would be needed what if it needs config change or other kind of adjustments before admin d= ecides to restart it=2E or wants to choose time From nobody Mon Oct 13 18:57:54 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clmnp6Y1hz6CCCy for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:58:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-f181.google.com (mail-qk1-f181.google.com [209.85.222.181]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clmnp4PH4z3G6F for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 18:58:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qk1-f181.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-859b2ec0556so656281685a.0 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:58:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760381886; x=1760986686; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Mq1d3vXsovaOHnlUmXWSHvfQE0qlUQO2jWnVaX4S4ZA=; b=ndeP/5nHK9fSq8AomezYFgmdfsED1coAV77KF8GVt+DiBT8rGHvd84TESWOUBwMoGL Ea/FIkxejGU1xr995P5mglMsFiRbcbpRc2Xfj7nWbmaRTaJyDdz6Fpqd4uW9E2qETNux DG8AqzQtuxk0NUD2yimStKjJwLkyNFcEar30d13RWQgg48KwyY74glUxxlkhPsaZR1db YMWUYCritullzWAFnJ44cRzAvTBHisLMYJMqFi/J+Mg2MjNokUlptzsHorGFYRmtUEJo zyounSz/j9D81qfpW6PbvstX/+lNnmwaIpxxjRJaKzFS5pbuymJAPG3XTFQhCrHrrTDK p+1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywb5ar2QsL/JqRqWINZHX6LQvm08DdlpyhrKW59vA2HNlh0hn9l 0Nf/IjNBtuT0rL5heoRBBJ80MVesLCdfwJzra3gxRJKvRqvCJvh75mOEW0xCf7ScILazpnxT7FU JNznWhpY6N2y6rS7o4t4i3BKdshbbkK36Rg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsDnLK7jYjNlMsKvXfyQxBlbJUBzbY7CNDQe3ExWOVcmAgoAB3FxMIC2CVkdL5 EB83tNc5smQRxr2RSj1bBH1Y3nkH4w4p2moTNvYbSGrkYFZPzUpgjPEYvwmWH7Qh3Aq4+qeguO4 AkNcY4AmNvKP9mglqTBYObUojeLMch1cBvyQo+a2ZTlL1mSc8PCcWHUOBP5VjBc17PYPRg+/jSb vOW3QkE1zmQiGkKOBDYWYHfEg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEdjrcnyERkC9RdJgl6q3zP/ZXHD7tXMkN6+Xh782lN6MuuwTVyN5MZSR0FJ2eiv3hnw9/Aja6VymSphVRre3A= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1aa7:b0:863:42ea:d687 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-88352d9a142mr2675038685a.78.1760381885562; Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:58:05 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> <51721B50-CDEB-4B93-9CA6-1B2141180869@ketas.si.pri.ee> In-Reply-To: <51721B50-CDEB-4B93-9CA6-1B2141180869@ketas.si.pri.ee> From: Adrian Chadd Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:57:54 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWAab8u1_cYBO8R3GW2mpANNupLZMpNUwuWbuJV2JINX3I3w4zCPjqYUe30 Message-ID: Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists To: Sulev-Madis Silber Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f5441a06410ed89f" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4clmnp4PH4z3G6F --000000000000f5441a06410ed89f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 11:22, Sulev-Madis Silber < freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee> wrote: > > > On October 13, 2025 9:06:02 PM GMT+03:00, Adrian Chadd > wrote: > >... > > > >On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter wrote: > > > >> Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>: > >> > > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we > >> > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that. > >> > > >> > Most probably it will need too, yes. > >> > >> proposed fix at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53061. i really don't > like > >> this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probably > the > >> least disruptive solution for users. > >> > > > >I'm curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded > package? > > > > > >-a > > i hope this wasn't proposal of blanket restarts everywhere. this could get > bad quickly. i recall friends cursing linux distros going one step further, > starting everything that's installed with default config > > many things would happily run after update, nginx even has special no > interrupt upgrade which replaces binary > > for sshd it would maybe ok but who knows. all around restarting is bad. at > least optout would be needed > > what if it needs config change or other kind of adjustments before admin > decides to restart it. or wants to choose time > > The only reason I'd like services not to be restarted is in case it's a last ditch attempt to recover a broken system. Otherwise: * your currently executing binary can be referencing libraries, files, etc which themselves are deleted but won't be freed until you kill the process; * the binary itself may be deleted, but it won't be freed until the process is killed; * the binary may be pointing to old paths / binaries / etc (think web servers, mail servers, etc) which no longer exist until you kill/restart the process (as ivy saw); So yes, i'd like services to be restarted when the package itself is reinstalled. This gets hilarious when you start thinking about the underlying libraries being upgraded and old ones being deleted, but like, in theory package management should handle that for me too as it should know all of those dependencies. If the package system doesn't do that then I'm going to need to reboot my system after a non-trivial package upgrade anyway, as a bunch of stuff may have changed and it may behave unpredictably until it reboots. -adrian --000000000000f5441a06410ed89f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, 13 Oct = 2025 at 11:22, Sulev-Madis Silber <freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee= > wrote:
=

On October 13, 2025 9:06:02 PM GMT+03:00, Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org> wrote: >...
>
>On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter <ivy@freebsd.org> wrote:
>
>> Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel>:
>> > > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for exam= ple, we
>> > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to d= o that.
>> >
>> > Most probably it will need too, yes.
>>
>> proposed fix at https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53061.= =C2=A0 i really don't like
>> this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is proba= bly the
>> least disruptive solution for users.
>>
>
>I'm curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded = package?
>
>
>-a

i hope this wasn't proposal of blanket restarts everywhere. this could = get bad quickly. i recall friends cursing linux distros going one step furt= her, starting everything that's installed with default config

many things would happily run after update, nginx even has special no inter= rupt upgrade which replaces binary

for sshd it would maybe ok but who knows. all around restarting is bad. at = least optout would be needed

what if it needs config change or other kind of adjustments before admin de= cides to restart it. or wants to choose time


The only reason I'd like services = not to be restarted is in case it's a last ditch attempt to recover a b= roken system.
Otherwise:

* your currently executing bi= nary can be referencing libraries, files, etc which themselves are deleted = but won't be freed until you kill the process;
* the binary i= tself may be deleted, but it won't be freed until the process is killed= ;
* the binary may be pointing to old paths / binaries / etc (thi= nk web servers, mail servers, etc) which no longer exist until you kill/res= tart the process (as ivy saw);

So yes, i'd lik= e services to be restarted when the package itself is reinstalled. This get= s hilarious when you start thinking about the underlying libraries being up= graded and old ones being deleted, but like, in theory package management s= hould handle that for me too as it should know all of those dependencies.

If the package system doesn't do that then I= 9;m going to need to reboot my system after a non-trivial package upgrade a= nyway, as a bunch of stuff may have changed and it may behave unpredictably= until it reboots.



-= adrian

--000000000000f5441a06410ed89f-- From nobody Tue Oct 14 00:48:07 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4clwYj1jn7z6CdXH; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 00:48:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4clwYj1BtHz3s6L; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 00:48:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760402889; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=stV1hEkgb2oLuWuj2TU1JyKpajw5GfDgrSM5168jYsc=; b=mZ0m4K1dHpSeQyCVFegG7iGQA5Wy5Q6gYrHDLsTr8q/WdtFWFpnQFHTHxry1fY7jraH/h0 gt1B6R5v5AEp7EFKWGwAiG3l4MDaEKmZbng31Ne6TNpmCu93vp2tGhb4bk0QAoOHs696n5 xg5SQfHPr1Po7FxeJwE/USNXqd9EBM2s7j/B4nVQBfuac9rvQQTSAgTzrv+eAE+yVhxJbu WyJXN4uiVjqKGpHkvlDGI2ZfbMzbVwaI+oZJqYbrxsJ8Kf8Nv9ASOubMMpGvQNfRvX5b+d s4w3ODtjNTjzumJ1lAbC6xgBAo4oHp3hPgUghlgnazLP+EgLXetOR3+TQ6bABw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760402889; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=stV1hEkgb2oLuWuj2TU1JyKpajw5GfDgrSM5168jYsc=; b=NuEGlcFWKaRpMmrmpnFzvn61+1OBdbyBRhARqXbRF697QhKZJ1J3fBVOuL66SWyw2RBbfV uRGql+2LuwX/rr8FZA2UiMVUU2r0mfeMdus53IxS5IACCtoZXByIhxUEUmFN6U41V/QhJv VzJmUotKc7QzP8CsMPNHFqnq7Am6LPLDEQ9jtoNlcOLD89yzrh9NthXFzXLdYVO3qDgI8l DuMec+g0gv99OMjhC5AQ4ehMGAokyBAp2YHzeI1HPEjihSKbhWdFePVVtbvQVjJaT2+jTq YL1i5mJ1fQVblHHWnmJ5WzKAYtkCGXtZ/8wqriWxYJQbKqn8xb7yBbBFV4CWwA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760402889; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bkRawkoNhqjPI+yY9pd7bfqgz24M84zDOhKa33vu2iRh/399L05fhjp88IVmwsme6fUxzN 6pOq5SSUiwIZfCMEE/taq3LcyovDTCPrQjwX9NaIk14n2VMO98JJc5KO81aLs6AJa5gtKY iDJGkyV8mjTQVcGSb46Z40Hszkzdwz1aQdOQDk0GSB0UYJ295IVEKVhLfiuiTdGQ6XNKnk 1Bs3oZ6/37dZWXjUUlExXFnsbRa1gCMKBN7C2xTqDHF5NnEHWP2T27APspUY9OSjCTP8gn tebeTG5XdA4GMXSYcUSXNBqot/j5rrjRgWfgl4K/IUOZy9a5vuw/WxaiROOgzw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ltc.des.dev (88-177-82-251.subs.proxad.net [88.177.82.251]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4clwYh71tBzLwP; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 00:48:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9D83F88294; Tue, 14 Oct 2025 02:48:07 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Adrian Chadd Cc: Olivier Certner , fs@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: openat("./...", O_CREAT) fails even though the directory exists In-Reply-To: (Adrian Chadd's message of "Mon, 13 Oct 2025 11:06:02 -0700") References: <2507674.THHZn3L5Ee@ravel> <6142242.Zv9zXsTiuT@ravel> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2025 02:48:07 +0200 Message-ID: <86zf9u5mwo.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adrian Chadd writes: > I'm curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded packag= e? We've never done so in the past, neither for base nor for ports (or packages), except that we started restarting sshd in freebsd-update(8) a few years ago because sshd will stop accepting new connections if the on-disk binary gets desynchronized from the running daemon, so you can easily lock yourself out of a system by running freebsd-update remotely, cf. . 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<51721B50-CDEB-4B93-9CA6-1B2141180869@ketas.si.pri.ee> Message-ID: <0CA02375-9E2C-4507-8DD2-819FC66413BA@ketas.si.pri.ee> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.68 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.88)[-0.876]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:3249, ipnet:2001:7d0::/32, country:EE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cm02b29KHz3Hb2 On October 13, 2025 9:57:54 PM GMT+03:00, Adrian Chadd wrote: >On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 11:22, Sulev-Madis Silber < >freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas=2Esi=2Epri=2Eee> wrote: > >> >> >> On October 13, 2025 9:06:02 PM GMT+03:00, Adrian Chadd >> wrote: >> >=2E=2E=2E >> > >> >On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 03:23, Lexi Winter wrote: >> > >> >> Olivier Certner wrote in <6142242=2EZv9zXsTiuT@ravel>: >> >> > > i suspect the fix will be in pkgbase somewhere: for example, we >> >> > > could restart sendmail on upgrade, or tell the user to do that= =2E >> >> > >> >> > Most probably it will need too, yes=2E >> >> >> >> proposed fix at https://reviews=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/D53061=2E i really = don't >> like >> >> this (nothing else restarts services on upgrade) but this is probabl= y >> the >> >> least disruptive solution for users=2E >> >> >> > >> >I'm curious - why are we NOT restarting services after an upgraded >> package? >> > >> > >> >-a >> >> i hope this wasn't proposal of blanket restarts everywhere=2E this coul= d get >> bad quickly=2E i recall friends cursing linux distros going one step fu= rther, >> starting everything that's installed with default config >> >> many things would happily run after update, nginx even has special no >> interrupt upgrade which replaces binary >> >> for sshd it would maybe ok but who knows=2E all around restarting is ba= d=2E at >> least optout would be needed >> >> what if it needs config change or other kind of adjustments before admi= n >> decides to restart it=2E or wants to choose time >> >> >The only reason I'd like services not to be restarted is in case it's a >last ditch attempt to recover a broken system=2E >Otherwise: > >* your currently executing binary can be referencing libraries, files, et= c >which themselves are deleted but won't be freed until you kill the proces= s; >* the binary itself may be deleted, but it won't be freed until the proce= ss >is killed; >* the binary may be pointing to old paths / binaries / etc (think web >servers, mail servers, etc) which no longer exist until you kill/restart >the process (as ivy saw); > >So yes, i'd like services to be restarted when the package itself is >reinstalled=2E This gets hilarious when you start thinking about the >underlying libraries being upgraded and old ones being deleted, but like, >in theory package management should handle that for me too as it should >know all of those dependencies=2E > >If the package system doesn't do that then I'm going to need to reboot my >system after a non-trivial package upgrade anyway, as a bunch of stuff ma= y >have changed and it may behave unpredictably until it reboots=2E > > > >-adrian yes reboots are useful as a test too=2E and all up there are reasonable but now you need to make sure that machine is not doing any work=2E i gues= s one would say that machine should never be doing any useful work when you= start touching it but this changes going live immediately would turn some of those practices= upside down where you upgrade and hope to later restart it in one go and how to even restart? do you restart on every library being upgraded, a= nd finally for the binary itself? i realize that leaving thing hanging there without binaries found or pulli= ng a lib out underneath would cause bad things to happen in some cases but = isn't that like being often done? one other option would be to create complete new system and boot into it= =2E that would need data decoupling and so on and when do you restart? some things might need stop first before you dele= te the files off, then start=2E in the middle there's nothing running=2E ho= pefully nothing accesses system then=2E eg you have made it externally impo= ssible but at least some situations i see much more interruptions this messes up some admin brains for sure also what order the things should get upgraded and restarted at? what if p= ackage dep order is the wrong one? also if you can't get the machine isolated, and you did just stop daemons,= do they come back up out of sequence as you upgrade? yeah restarting things as upgrade goes would make entire life completely d= ifferent maybe it helps on good sysadmin practices but you bet it raises ton of peo= ple cursing like what you mean it got restarted, i thought i just upgraded = it, i meant to commit later or even maybe turn my actions back if ports starts doing that, it needs warnings=2E many warnings also what about those setups where install environment isn't really the ru= n environment? like one jail installs, other runs it from ro fs=2E i bet th= ose are special enough that admin is aware of it btw, if this change would go into effect, where do people learn that? ther= e are number of cases of major release doing changes or about to do changes= that are being only told in release notes casually=2E like, btw, 32bit is = deprecated, or btw, different shell, or btw, home dir location changes=2E a= nd person could be like wow wow wow wait www=2E=2E=2E wh wha what? now hold= on why i never knew i recall https://forums=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/threads/ars-technica-article-focus= ed-on-wireguard-regarding-freebsd=2E79537/ but i also recall other things=2E let's not make service autorestarting on= e of them i once had like honest question that nobody answered, why is breaking code= being introduced between alphas and betas and rc's? or between their versi= ons? isn't it like, alpha is where things don't work, beta is where things = work, rc when it's perfect and release when it's done? instead of that, mid= -alpha is where new nic driver appears, beta is where new zfs comes, etc=2E= i didn't pull out exact things but you get the idea=2E oh after the releas= e we found out that we need to patch it=2E the code that needed patching is= only in that new release good thing is that we still have those 1-2 older releases one can hang out= in and watch this freshly out of factory train running on either other peo= ple's systems or in their test env but that restarting, would it come from pkg or via certain release? before freebsd was like where's the gas lever, we need to add some pace=2E= now it's like where's the brake handle, need to slow down? i recall being very pissed about xo back then=2E that got others pissed idea was good, i like json now i was pointed at bugs in vmstat loop run=2E generates broken json=2E n= ormal run generates padded entries=2E then i found more bugs in w=2E padded= entry=2E if you set locale to one where decimal separator is comma, it dir= ectly goes out as invalid json=2E i gave up on workload and was thinking of= asking juniper itself if they could allocate some time to this=2E i don't = seem to have brain wired for reading xo functions=2E i reported 2 of those = bugs, 1 is still out=2E and i lost energy to find more=2E yet i want it all= to be nice warm and fuzzy i don't know if it's inevitable that those things happen but i don't like = bugs but i admit that lost sshd in upgrade could be bug too, if it won't come u= p, what then? pray and go back? in one place i had static dropbear as secon= d means to access=2E didn't have oob mgmt there=2E not all things have=2E s= o yeah, i don't know what good way is=2E for ssh for other things servers can be sysadminned in various ways depends on need=2E but i bet if= all services start restarting, there would be lot of (bad) surprises=2E an= d this would be another change nobody notices where/who/what was it, iirc here or somewhere near it went like, change was presented in a file in bottom of a locked file ca= binet in a back room of office with sign beware of a dog recently i found very bad bug in cu and maybe in sc(/getty?) that mysterio= usly corrupts data and sends out to in and in sc, to other console as input= =2E and was asked if i knew that cu is old and buggy thing and no normal pe= rson uses it=2E yet every example has it in=2E manpage has example of usb s= erials=2E looked recent enough to me! i mean how would one learn stuff if (s)he's not in "inner circle"=2E thing= s just happen and without his/her control=2E that part i don't really like in my entire path to this day from 4=2E6 i don't know how many things i ar= e supposed or not supposed to be using but so far it worked=2E like ntpdate= is deprecated but why is it still in? what's replacement, ntpd -g? but tha= t was bg? often changes could be found in last minute at worst possible time where y= ou can't get the system back up because you missed one line in some notes could probably split it all up into smaller bits and put into better speci= fic fbsd design lists like arch@ but those are things i see also, me, or perhaps many, don't see the behind scene talks, they just see= the end eg with that boot loader issue=2E got people mad=2E i went and looked why = that change was made=2E turned out there was entire long thread where thing= s went out things went in=2E not all did fit=2E unfortunately end result pi= ssed into coffee cup of that particular admin and he took a big sip without= looking i bet that change where bridge members aren't supposed to have ip's is goi= ng to bit many too for years to end=2E i can get the logic, but not fully= =2E i mean this is all happening inside same kernel anyway, so why? i think= i had issues with it in past and did realize this was a bad config but=2E= =2E=2E yes, those are changes that make people mad i had people asking wtf is going on in fbsd=2E i just shrug and say i gues= s somebody had an idea, that got traction and was implemented eg, pkgbase=2E very good idea=2E supposedly old idea too=2E but nobody tri= ed much=2E there wasn't even a tiny nudge=2E all of sudden there was a big = push and lot more bugs popped out=2E i bet pkgbase bugs continue well into = 15 and maybe even 16 or more=2E that's a huge breaking change that needs pr= oduction release testing=2E because people apparently aren't using it befor= e that much=2E you know, that thing, let's wait until it gets ready, but it= can be ready until you use it for real=2E i do already=2E found bugs, repo= rted=2E good so yeah, changes can be difficult! From nobody Wed Oct 15 08:51:07 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmlDZ2nDCz6C0qH; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 08:51:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fluffy@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmlDY6974z3cQq; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 08:51:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fluffy@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760518269; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=qiH3H2J7g4/0ndiP2LgEcQaTyuUb0uwIKdQXp5ZDNo8=; b=QLXa/Rg4w11qvcr17LKwE3IA3cSYduQEQx9fbOD5dKmOUaWw2d6ukXGhRNL07ybh6XG7k/ k/ENZ2Ed/W0Q0RpLAV9xZof8/sKy8DVBA7omwjNyuc9onxcwifwKyn4rZWjbgU7Ktuk1Xz Isf1xBNMWyp1hRUdksnibOtv88EwNh5/1/gY7NJWAW/Bn/C/n48G5liVRqO5Xl2BgtIBkQ atFyTWcO/cowd5panWUpv0s0kGX4E7nZf1YUy0pXKbqzhM3FSMiH6NlKY4TUpm3RgipQ7u mtQgyElaPnuwHDm/9ECBB/NZ7Bj06KLPV1dRg+Jzaj8Gv5AiYQjaJtsZf2cA4Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760518269; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=qiH3H2J7g4/0ndiP2LgEcQaTyuUb0uwIKdQXp5ZDNo8=; b=H6BB8ZGv6RPMBTpWZCAGhQWQO9W6UuHO9NEoxmiAWlXVL/HIiIJuLg7tp1OTFjcA5906En Sv+aAF1M8fsgFdSy+t8Iro4nqFIdYPY6ONXOUXdhPir9x9JqVLsi4zjSGe8xZR8PG2+Isa YMJTm2AC/Zzss+LsJUMlhEreXqqHwSHCPzbsOO72N3gzr41/HIcvrU3/YnxcjkkdICHL4n MmnlEj/GYTWW+94GWH2iSK0LOqU0U1YVCAT4UWPA7HTNMn+k5jOLDzfStUcpDlu1eHUSnP QBldiem1aClDKPtkFcKmTLY1mPQykuodPy6WRf75QgTph0FvMhReWipQKA7v2g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760518269; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=R0A0ZfsMMXYyXQHFZInP844Sz8f1XAiVF1i6ECmlPhzxoIEMxazWwtVVqZiXGwh0ZVQCcg 5TVfi8FM1Wd423SqCGdQo5o331y3+g9GXWW3OQpKd3g+Qfl1yIaZlrKzvYDe2qJ6Z5YOuQ 5OKQnJn6lzqhxS704q2E8Msde10RGCyKGW4dqMZjvqF8IFXPDk8aJGnHtl1ZfbtTxhbDoD EPrR2C88JtGp2tNag+kD6CCtwDmqj5Cb7+nZjwWcfkadeuZp4YpnaIe/+U691yXdJpRT/A rY5gn7XYJdT3nWR/mStJr4qHcb+N8Kmbu61lp5lAxehr7Tw1UZLehFR0PCn9KA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [10.78.81.1] (unknown [78.140.234.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: fluffy) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmlDY1J7tz4fQ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 08:51:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fluffy@FreeBSD.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 11:51:07 +0300 From: Dima Panov To: FreeBSD Current , FreeBSD Mailing List , Mark Millard Cc: Cy Schubert Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <85881BCA-BB67-4A53-BC76-A68719F4A515@yahoo.com> References: <85881BCA-BB67-4A53-BC76-A68719F4A515.ref@yahoo.com> <85881BCA-BB67-4A53-BC76-A68719F4A515@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: main [so: 16] context, an example of: /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv2.so: Undefined symbol "gss_inquire_sec_context_by_oid" X-Canary-Draft: 8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="68ef607b_98a3148_8c69"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --68ef607b_98a3148_8c69 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="68ef607b_5f5e7fd0_8c69" --68ef607b_5f5e7fd0_8c69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello=21 Sorry for a late ack. Can confirm this. It looks like missing symbols in shared library libgssapi=5Fkrb5.so in ba= se but present in static archive libgssapi=5Fkrb5.a. Indeed, string is exist in imported crypto/krb5/src/lib/gssapi.def and cr= ypto/krb5/src/lib/gssapi/libgssapi=5Fkrb5.exports but missed in krb5/lib/= gssapi/version.map which is actual source for symbols map at linking libr= ary Cc to cy=40 as mit krb maintainer -- Dima. (desktop, kde, x11, office, ports-secteam)=40=46reeBSD team (fluffy=40=46reeBSD.org, https://t.me/=46luffyBSD) > On =46riday, Sep 12, 2025 at 5:48 AM, Mark Millard wrote: > Yesterday and today I made my first trial upgrade from main 15 > to main 16. Hitting other issues, I did not notice it at the > time but my dmesg -a output shows a: > > Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S sasldblistusers2=5B70766=5D: unable to dl= open /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv2.so: /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv= 2.so: Undefined symbol =22gss=5Finquire=5Fsec=5Fcontext=5Fby=5Foid=22 > > Looking at /var/log/messages I see: > > . . . > Sep 11 13:06:15 7950X3D-Z=46S pkg-static=5B70455=5D: tcptestsuite-g2025= 0428,1 installed > Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S pkg-static=5B70703=5D: c-ares-1.34.5 dein= stalled > Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S sasldblistusers2=5B70766=5D: unable to dl= open /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv2.so: /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv= 2.so: Undefined symbol =22gss=5Finquire=5Fsec=5Fcontext=5Fby=5Foid=22 > Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S pkg-static=5B70703=5D: cyrus-sasl-2.1.28=5F= 5 deinstalled > Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S pkg-static=5B70703=5D: cyrus-sasl-gssapi-= 2.1.28 deinstalled > . . . > > I'll note that I build and install various things that > I do not use, just to have more variety in what I build, > or that I rarely use. This would seem to fit that. > > > > =3D=3D=3D > Mark Millard > marklmi at yahoo.com > > --68ef607b_5f5e7fd0_8c69 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline <= meta name=3D=22viewport=22 content=3D=22width=3Ddevice-width, initial-sca= le=3D1.0, user-scalable=3Dno=22>
Hello=21

Sorry for a late ac= k.
Can confirm this.=C2=A0
It looks like missing symb= ols in shared library libgssapi=5Fkrb5.so in base but present in static a= rchive libgssapi=5Fkrb5.a.=C2=A0

Indeed, string = is exist in imported crypto/krb5/src/lib/gssapi.def and crypto/krb5/src/l= ib/gssapi/libgssapi=5Fkrb5.exports but missed in krb5/lib/gssapi/version.= map which is actual source for symbols map at linking library
<= br>

Cc to cy=40 as mit krb maintainer


--
Dima. (desktop, kde, x11, office, ports-secteam)=40=46ree= BSD team
(fluffy=40=46reeBSD.org, https://t.me/=46luffyBSD)

On =46riday,= Sep 12, 2025 at 5:48 AM, Mark Millard <marklmi=40yahoo.com> wrote:
Yesterday = and today I made my first trial upgrade from main 15
to main 16. Hitt= ing other issues, I did not notice it at the
time but my dmesg -a out= put shows a:

Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S sasldblistusers2=5B70= 766=5D: unable to dlopen /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv2.so: /usr/local/= lib/sasl2/libgssapiv2.so: Undefined symbol =22gss=5Finquire=5Fsec=5Fconte= xt=5Fby=5Foid=22

Looking at /var/log/messages I see:

. = . .
Sep 11 13:06:15 7950X3D-Z=46S pkg-static=5B70455=5D: tcptestsuite= -g20250428,1 installed
Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S pkg-static=5B707= 03=5D: c-ares-1.34.5 deinstalled
Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S sasldb= listusers2=5B70766=5D: unable to dlopen /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv2.= so: /usr/local/lib/sasl2/libgssapiv2.so: Undefined symbol =22gss=5Finquir= e=5Fsec=5Fcontext=5Fby=5Foid=22
Sep 11 13:06:48 7950X3D-Z=46S pkg-sta= tic=5B70703=5D: cyrus-sasl-2.1.28=5F5 deinstalled
Sep 11 13:06:48 795= 0X3D-Z=46S pkg-static=5B70703=5D: cyrus-sasl-gssapi-2.1.28 deinstalled . . .

I'll note that I build and install various things that <= br>I do not use, just to have more variety in what I build,
or that I= rarely use. This would seem to fit that.



=3D=3D=3D Mark Millard
marklmi at yahoo.com


--68ef607b_5f5e7fd0_8c69-- --68ef607b_98a3148_8c69 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Canary PGP V3 iQJVBAABCgA/OBxEaW1hIFBhbm92IChGcmVlQlNELk9SRyBDb21taXR0ZXIpIDxm bHVmZnlARnJlZUJTRC5PUkc+BQJo72B7AAoJEPuLoJ3VOY8pspIP/0IMo33tONPs 8C4POYZ20Ai5NrHqQZncs/KAaLxHdjIvzbQGA9WTB8m+7IqNJDozAPRbwJp0CMz3 LdedNjr+t1jj8PZ33KWFlometOCjOAih8yIJyDOKeDz+pndb6uXrUxRSLKd5iY+t XmKHKd9WYLHdKEvV+lAv9HrR5PYOBTLkJuE+Jf9p5gdkH27Es56TLxtR7j3FeOJf 6RGsHifpCJ+8AaA4sTxBOLtDqCtO7miPinpF/4wr2brJM5V3IUGKkjvsxwrzRTUz DjmhWFm6c3xvWyt8O0l5MSdyOclyxy+58yC4nK26tjiDMYqnUZB8KhNFv/eTvWRq bkuM+XH18Aczf42qizInGrsJ3Oq3JjiKT0XR4YoTuekod0jCgxxTq7dz5tKjItw2 UQCN1gd4lHWcuOkI+UR4Sl88VLYcqONctPwcOzoJ+P2Tg8j9Bvt+z6770/IDo+ad T5q0/QmEHk17Zpc9TAu6v/KC0dhwjaFKv3GG1IKg1TxxgwAqR8XB1NJ7t7dUKQe9 5z4vr6ozN+gSYo6ntVr99A3UoqFdYk3mRrCA5dUoYEnaPThiq6W/1h0N16/2B0SL /JOcB/uJ684beMXI691jVJPsGpecnsQ9U6uFFZhNf+gpvMUII3MxvAX6LsOT54WK 9d1PLzaGtEKPUhMx5JZB989RpkTVzqV4 =WRWD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --68ef607b_98a3148_8c69-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 11:31:30 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmpnf3KYrz6CDC3 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 11:31:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ronald-lists@klop.ws) Received: from smtp-relay-int-backup.realworks.nl (smtp-relay-int-backup.realworks.nl [87.255.56.188]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmpnd16sYz3qhZ for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 11:31:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ronald-lists@klop.ws) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=klop.ws header.s=rw2 header.b=GHQJf0x6; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=klop.ws; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ronald-lists@klop.ws designates 87.255.56.188 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ronald-lists@klop.ws Received: from smtp-relay-int-backup.realworks.nl (crmlive8.colo2.realworks.nl [10.2.52.28]) by mailrelayint2.colo2.realworks.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmpnZ1sjMz37 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:31:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=klop.ws; s=rw2; t=1760527890; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=kV8WCKSQP4oWAC+8GqIlMhMw1T9luRX73beZrY6jgO4=; b=GHQJf0x6dyHaTSF6w5SqY3jSm75Yk69b2QADiOy+8MmofKmVhQopMJVLzrdceZfvDb/uON 1/xiDoyBRW/yCiBbHUzStQY8yfbFZEbnQZhw+SCrPAGCnZ7ObCTl2wbfKheiobA2wGIdPj KllYOHx4Ox3VLlwyGOMgvfYDysoBnq3xi+qEC1/tK+/HxfotHAKRtjuavAZXw5+1rCLL5R ETHz7WH301lzCvNwYvDbvx2rW5TJ0YMcHVPZwfwMAT+L+0LBZPfmbUS9xXRNb/TF7NEbRk 6qs8v5uIwHLnq90bD69MVzDwADoIA7UkzPguaKcvyi3AVF57jl1tWc9G21zaPA== Received: from crmlive8.colo2.realworks.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crmlive8.colo2.realworks.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBB2120068 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:31:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:31:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Ronald Klop To: current@freebsd.org Message-ID: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> Subject: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_147693_870500024.1760527890046" X-Mailer: Realworks (767.69) X-Originating-Host: from (89-20-164-210.static.ef-service.nl [89.20.164.210]) by crmlive8 [10.2.52.28] with HTTP; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:31:30 +0200 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Originating-User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:144.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/144.0 X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[klop.ws,quarantine]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[klop.ws:s=rw2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:87.255.56.128/26]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_X_PRIO_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[klop.ws:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cmpnd16sYz3qhZ ------=_Part_147693_870500024.1760527890046 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Yesterday I installed a 15-BETA1 jail using pkgbase FreeBSD-set-minimal-jail. I was missing FreeBSD-dhclient which is fine and I installed it. Then it didn't have DNS as FreeBSD-resolvconf was missing. I understand that theoretically dhclient can operate without resolvconf, but in practice they seem pretty useful together. Should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Regards, Ronald. ------=_Part_147693_870500024.1760527890046 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi,

Yesterday I installed a 15-BETA1 jail using pkgbase FreeBSD-set-minimal-jail.
I was missing FreeBSD-dhclient which is fine and I installed it. Then it didn't have DNS as FreeBSD-resolvconf was missing.
I understand that theoretically dhclient can operate without resolvconf, but in practice they seem pretty useful together.

Should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf?

Regards,
Ronald.
  ------=_Part_147693_870500024.1760527890046-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 12:16:02 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmqn82xlSz6CHYY; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:16:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmqn828p3z3yHM; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:16:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760530572; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=AXpBnPDMmLKex2YkXfsPzdkNqB9clOPCBfY3Ni0v8ew=; b=OVqGLv5o+39QtAFU/qQUD8Y1QPTDg8OCU8aftt2WrbaKslxnhM69lGzHiKRCVRKjDQvZAs 950kdHsjpBJehPa4ofDY5OVVntMQVmoOVmvxqiFa/AOmHCuof9Rz2OZOvQBMUrFFSTHvNc jcDc1bANLO+zNcGX5R7Nq3b/mDCZbHsAUMGGTnuP4V6GYA6unBjHYXD+SenbqmWD2xtbmK iyUchSCBZJtrvhx86WIdpU2rtdlQb8Sa8unAJ19ZEoszt6RrNrnvWqXR95rJXVykExFCym fQ0mXTWAby1SNuXMiMjIkEPWEW74gB7EGHGcztpKpm+nD70fiRGATW7OhGNLFQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760530572; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=AXpBnPDMmLKex2YkXfsPzdkNqB9clOPCBfY3Ni0v8ew=; b=LxmSyCI347WrN61VlK9YcxAvcF9OQR2UuYRTOIATJK83THtOCZ6HWTY8lNbUi1te1ZyHUa j0QXatI4IWQAs0ldMSfbcXXOXOXfgU9/yxVNsl5Kee2Ab3VFJGuKd+PlZYKV5OVr4f9BnN 4qatIWjgS5l5RfCmB56eouR8zVwuYq1Q2FpCcbOCBJfMZaBWohrwUFv9MB4SriEJRQILMs mnB5FWPKpY/JEJvEMCdrR3pPXZ6nALCjquPdZpyDAec00Z0hCGLqP1zMuBjMyfZzFxPLX4 n9lYeCo9O4yh8fOSSIocDBYTLG6e36yhtjpPYAwga+35cxo2kWeLE4pD7V30yA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760530572; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=B3Kvm/uAdMYAw2PnEpxvR3fT7BJaQfFKCh1Rmuyzek3hoHNRoKrHy88eFwOmwhtHrUDK87 WZBKHg8hPrib4OBFdVmpA8m8G2aVg/cGW4fSKdnO7Yjm9rp54qhgykxDIFHo8ss6NUW4IP oiwNPaOoYiZHcWIji+f2xHY4625GEYa0p/3bpiHmr/5YUsJq0K7vusWWG4dLLqwvgf9HNQ rK2aoKGBVhEh5qADel/hD8I9mipHU8K+n7YHY8K4ZPXrWizdRjr6g+npXuVZLDzzunWWfP 0Xov0qtx1bZjN97gd3xUN3z4dTrGgYDWoTUDysOiyg7AswZSJAok9sg/FWWaFg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmqn75csyz822; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:16:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:16:02 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Ronald Klop Cc: current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lofcremcrHqyaYDC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> --lofcremcrHqyaYDC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ronald Klop wrote in <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost>: > Yesterday I installed a 15-BETA1 jail using pkgbase > FreeBSD-set-minimal-jail. I was missing FreeBSD-dhclient which is > fine and I installed it. Then it didn't have DNS as FreeBSD-resolvconf > was missing. I understand that theoretically dhclient can operate > without resolvconf, but in practice they seem pretty useful together. >=20 > Should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? dhclient should depend on resolvconf and i will fix this. i am curious how widespread dhclient use in jails is. should we add dhclient to set-minimal-jail? NB, "set-minimal-jail" is not intended to be the smallest possible set of packages for a jail; it's meant to be "minimal" (the basic base system) for jails. so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should probably add it to minimal-jail. --lofcremcrHqyaYDC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaO+QfgAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YIUHAQCRulqeow8iQaikbBoX/f3YQEKnX4JnlID31GW1hyCiZQEAuTQl9qan/7Kk LDSt5+vPDUbRQae7prnZ6vO9L1XmpQU= =Naff -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lofcremcrHqyaYDC-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 12:24:12 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmqyj5yBcz6CHhn for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:24:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rionda@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmqyj3nvHz41N8 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:24:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rionda@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-88e32ad012cso96853085a.2 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:24:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1760531064; x=1761135864; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YWro21lk++WR6QPWBih2OGppDQmape4Xw3j9JIYwhjw=; b=kJsLU92UvZuhG1o1QPq9MNfnypcPIBUWw4+5C7QEXhwfCpUoorb2yAtqs6hWqr+crQ 4/rKyNnYJOprwi8dnY6CfZq303JXR6da8jXNO1PijdbmlmxQ6ij8v4AOZegEPLCLMiSX unMNc5TpXIpuo2AlWf2zSFm/2JdZ9Xigo2a2Fm+sq8vxIDppc9meHoOgBQeiapsfH96B DZ8aCuPdUvcAIe0NzHzUiaiLqabYPWWLVwESQf3kmsFqDXBGxWuR+BFgjutZ9fyA0hSj 34EiP+sIVMRCgG0f0CDil1iUyaNmZFSP6Ib54qZFyqxPp5Ew53RfzjvTIU9wHkyozScb IAKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760531064; x=1761135864; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YWro21lk++WR6QPWBih2OGppDQmape4Xw3j9JIYwhjw=; b=ToWP2PgDZHBu8FeQUbszHOYPn7QZgF3x9fKAoUDr7lkZQMzxvW18J5xKNiBgpXxlmp iRB0fxySYTct/1AuEMmMIA8s4icpfPp450/8y6VDGRBlj/mphxDHSppjZnINvQ227MAb QQ1gXpPnzTAA16CUnH+VL6Rw1Tla6ZNcFzsF1O5WTt5tUVxtH79M/276thEevjjKYjTh IZFUxbMd4z1CjGFa4nc7yAKK/Tc8CAEZxhDOVqI6I/5O6DNK+sdlUw9LtEXMINgI0cW5 kD+hxPMmKgbBQpZwfyZrGvlf/n+2z+hKtO0UgRwCWAVAoQ6AST46W3FPwfoMZ9lDCPX4 gfzg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCULD6rQkVBPIxxxpqRecQvPzV7nGqsCU+pIgu4XMgDjgIyCPmScqoaHd+hZgzdfjDdI1+4JrP09@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyHzZJ7tC5FVaDEW/NRbodoxdhd0ZxRBu9u99z8Z5Mdz6KX3LQJ HEkiRP4UTS/jBxbLJ09byZjfUScIwesTzm3ZndNwewR5kHyTzQCkJfoc X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncslrv4p9Cg++qVkpMPZNvsF4wJmDDbKeZVI5Ssvisxze5p2A2AuAbirVxRHH6W 1zBhS6mESNuUfsT0JF1j+ScVA3yc6TpXUkRz1mmoGR2M7WdAFLVZVl+s0H65ZteO/AMDMhOPqZE WZxwXWllXB9cRX219lhcYPWmpZunRs5QxRMaqiIwAWbhuuvIiipi4v3X9vORrtc+jGFcm5aD4dj dPZ2SsCSrBri92Y/XGPfIzISh7WEINk49Po/Ad2j5fED+sLHudKfrqN+iaf3AD3j19ei6qJsJtd zWgAuSNUqpZle0A1jj0hzbGZbyMRUkrslhidS39WDm+cqkuX9b/vAQb/g4beGy8psnORrjx89sa GuYg4kaYI0GNdXzQ+CjxbwhXlhXSzyJwGJCp5TcikOAhN9d2kN4gzClOCWgz49hX1hWihtxOd3m 32HIBYoA3OBu9WmLxHtRSL76KOVC93FTvQmd1IKqS5T7If6A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFcmKlY2YoFPLUgmIwdnUNbS2taHz3pQIHw6Dz1RmS5cY2eTMLtJoD1cOoxpFcWojlNb6Kqyw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:29d0:b0:85d:df83:f6a7 with SMTP id af79cd13be357-88350a7a217mr3876588185a.29.1760531063546; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pafw-natd-255-216.amherst.edu. [148.85.255.216]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-884a274d0fcsm1374598685a.55.2025.10.15.05.24.22 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.700.6.1.21\)) Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? From: Matteo Riondato In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 08:24:12 -0400 Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> To: Lexi Winter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.700.6.1.21) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cmqyj3nvHz41N8 > On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:16 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: >=20 > Ronald Klop wrote in <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost>: >> Yesterday I installed a 15-BETA1 jail using pkgbase >> FreeBSD-set-minimal-jail. I was missing FreeBSD-dhclient which is >> fine and I installed it. Then it didn't have DNS as = FreeBSD-resolvconf >> was missing. I understand that theoretically dhclient can operate >> without resolvconf, but in practice they seem pretty useful together. >>=20 >> Should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? >=20 > dhclient should depend on resolvconf and i will fix this. >=20 > i am curious how widespread dhclient use in jails is. should we add > dhclient to set-minimal-jail? >=20 > NB, "set-minimal-jail" is not intended to be the smallest possible set > of packages for a jail; it's meant to be "minimal" (the basic base = system) > for jails. so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should = probably > add it to minimal-jail. So does =E2=80=9Cminimal=E2=80=9D really mean =E2=80=9Ctypical=E2=80=9D?=20= That=E2=80=99s going to be confusing, TBH (compare, e.g., with the = MINIMAL kernel config file). Thanks, Matteo From nobody Wed Oct 15 12:28:01 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmr2y45C6z6CJLQ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmr2y3b2Rz42kB; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:28:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760531290; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ibojJSSbzsaE5de2vh8vct1XilNfGCfC0/lxqFT/Obc=; b=snN5Zvxg7TgN0nr2xWuvzVHdXJgp3IKcv09n3VKf70Ur/aSHy27vhbOSQhwDMg6YDEeR/0 ksF7n3pnT9R/8BykWS2gC4tksnorLrUB9CNtkKd0eEPx2hsxtQRJ0ajk3onvF8gKf4x8Cq NMvJCOzv7DYctnlqKNGyAHab3nHNVd3g2wm4S6Ce1eH/7UYEb1Z4ozdpn89++w2S8EluZL 1PbBgr9lUJ6TXgfqv2aRPzJYcozmkMd7mc7MHUGSHU/m963WUzdbsKJJEfHIVKs91ICgmW Jb4K7Uimh4PkIm3RPy5lo5ObVbhrrz55ZTOfvM6FHsYlg7E3kpYeazB93lTzCA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760531290; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ibojJSSbzsaE5de2vh8vct1XilNfGCfC0/lxqFT/Obc=; b=ucrJ2yoz0bWDfGYWUAyeiXId7bxmu/6A6LPQhl+Kyi82Vwjd2Bqu+Jbt0nvXs1MfxjdxTJ d5xOScaaKSXZARDKqHs5R9cVsl13g3dOAP92njo0hz0IhVvUKK2wfTJWjuyEvQTG+B6uiw 23kx4mXqgllDNQ14s6CSyk8zcf6aVaYdkB+sf6UC6MHkjm3TkGfsxbzcBbyJAmssgXxttM cLG7z8t2Oe4UoDJPMHCiMMBiPj56XcFE+KiRuuDVgQ/pxHBaZxM1Cqa8KLbgJcqHANhTZD UIs8Ut6fcwg9E15SDfF2z09YyHjSlJgpiXhoKDaAhRK/b3RZ3LyUmhIc1Z5YlA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760531290; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=yDuZAa45RQJjvG6fEwVuvXt1fFTX46SvRgLFWQ69KVXFhg7WzOkeBkMlPP5/kAUbiFzvYb yM7jh+fKXOK9QMvvfrNrZN7oCLjKAr8G9uQ6gH/Iw+zS0pxbhNkaSj3NXVfYDUyvud6PvT PJdSIF3GbJDpvFUoA0cPf6yckGZ7vewhGrp2io8RFNQICSc84pTjf6DZW+pYStv+IsRDKX nnN9KO4zFvrU+18jvdGvrgM1/aJrBkTXRNd470hAdVXnXNRk1emngTIYDoqRvb8Uo4bYiz KPE68kvjn7LF0YXVWpK3A/VbwWxi43JOQYdEJXiDs22fMGiHwfUAL5Bqe9CnpQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmr2x6jVwz8rS; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:28:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:28:01 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Matteo Riondato Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Matteo Riondato , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IbGAJYoVgYbw780l" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> --IbGAJYoVgYbw780l Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matteo Riondato wrote in <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org>: > > On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:16 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: > > NB, "set-minimal-jail" is not intended to be the smallest possible set > > of packages for a jail; it's meant to be "minimal" (the basic base syst= em) > > for jails. so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should probab= ly > > add it to minimal-jail. =20 > So does =E2=80=9Cminimal=E2=80=9D really mean =E2=80=9Ctypical=E2=80=9D?= =20 =20 no. the project has no opinion on what a "typical jail" might contain. "minimal" is the minimal supported configuration for a multi-user UNIX system, i.e. the packages that people need to install to bring up a standard FreeBSD system and have things work as expected. "minimal-jail" is "minimal" without software that doesn't work in jails. dhclient obviously works in jails, but i ommitted it since i thought it was extremely uncommon to use dhclient in a jail. but if this is more common than i thought, we can add it. --IbGAJYoVgYbw780l Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaO+TUQAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YEzaAP97Z8xdXU5E+HaRCgDZwXXQYMBfLgLshxsDyoSPNgnWeQD9G8PSh8iQGWHD KnNVR0qgMWWN7q0EwBCeQ93qzSx/JAI= =t5Cd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IbGAJYoVgYbw780l-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 12:46:08 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmrRz5pVXz6CKr8 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:46:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rionda@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmrRy4dh3z47Gc for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:46:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rionda@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-796fe71deecso75406726d6.1 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:46:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1760532381; x=1761137181; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=v86QdeYjiiXYW/hcckedpm+qx3glOvTktOUNzfvrf5U=; b=iX+bfiVDKkF0k4xDXft6TBLa/KM7LbwwPcb3tM/ZbC7PgbcocM6El4g2lZ1W4e9eiy 4Qge+83ZsB35f3ZnjDIDQ2FYV/7JaZgcsxty3TLo7bJGLJdd+GZtyD4SW8xXPjQ0pbV+ WOj2vtJ6QQN5Nb2eGaNq0czfnxb8gO6/C3eCHbV+CrlDKVCDDESwzOWN/GzIF0wnC+o3 ZU3rV6wvsMG7YPP+0oP5l7i4aHkOqUMz662D1s39zgNVne5z2oLPL0dsVbyN1YfR7PNM /JNbzfPFaHCGoleHvTpWYQTRwIKGhseeYTW+VFzPRApkaOlp3n9IDYL9GlpEMBSQssMD w7vQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760532381; x=1761137181; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=v86QdeYjiiXYW/hcckedpm+qx3glOvTktOUNzfvrf5U=; b=lGLDZPfjENWWK+E7BU9AgZa/UWdZfdrbcP2+UmMUTU/iLZzXaZRTQSguuzPD/NVbmy ST+VbcbL/NxQQm5qdGgysTliXSWhRS8lATelq1pnVfMN7MLAveqONORbLsdNfXL2ss96 wvcuIEorvBzHdQCCtUpgdmnSOPRljCNW8+yYtHJ8dgMyyL3uUZCdaD3smtlAir2Pl4JO NZxSW8KbZ20CaiTCWS4cpMby2WVMDwCE7VZSHpXCWCwL/3gEL0HNZyudxbkW0Ue1J+aS +M4NiSjcTlnaomp1lviNNSf0oPXAIzzhe0kKXtgEqz1ViROI3CB8lffcXQ9aEjEsieBr /pQA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVv/SIDo/hk2Ub3s6F5BwnhoIBk69lioitYTUxwasyGElnk42fUNeEYOpKhK5ainGvzv4N+gkfL@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzGTAjXoyDs3/nu8kKmhA1ULwvbmSfgNoNk1DJnYVu3H+6ypxGd DtP93V2lVZRYyLvheh3xUkF+Pc4RFW6O0VvsDW8XPoEaPvw9KF0Z4L/tHvYasA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsdPVpkxOzfEvFRc/k7DoVxKaxTNYqmm7UTnel29k47EhUJUbBH7sHC6jqoU7e iJMUAR+yKaiolHwc5Xk8ZfQuhbe9inn6XGuvqgVibVPi+OZd0GUv7Ah14rjKddvQcyG8oj7ZLKL 8U02/6qMMx6ocWj2bM7jF4Q0TPDmpK/sfVPmnKZA7aiuSMVUShcv7bNAJf8BGf9V1ZgHa31TIiI KRTlkkD7Q0s47oP/bVQ8u9EqR829Yz0DlJLE8RtOyw/QcTc71GQ2urTw4CHG31Ns4cjjJ+gw/pI 6u5ppI+EQCl1e4JNcY8em6tzB5PcUrq5Z4UsZueqkg0TNIjRuPPUgchqOfV4UIqX+T4WbRNEJd/ 4BoajRPmVU+ZYNbW+2qAdpKnwvoeCpXHzmDyAu7DGBiMZUCd5pebMarXj3Tl0f4EsWyaMKWPlVD LwdxWhNXQMtnHwh4uYfxP5qb02jzIIC7YyCsQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHsJt5A8EJJq1RhOsy9x+Z0e/wgu2zz9EQHhx289k+CnrKWdK4bnMX4WNxGmbN4pU9RgXigxA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5d05:0:b0:4b7:a680:2111 with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-4e6eacb3007mr334393981cf.8.1760532380506; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pafw-natd-255-216.amherst.edu. [148.85.255.216]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-4e881c86dd0sm18004871cf.15.2025.10.15.05.46.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.700.6.1.21\)) Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? From: Matteo Riondato In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 08:46:08 -0400 Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> To: Lexi Winter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.700.6.1.21) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cmrRy4dh3z47Gc > On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:28 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: >=20 > Matteo Riondato wrote in = <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org>: >>> On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:16 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: >>> NB, "set-minimal-jail" is not intended to be the smallest possible = set >>> of packages for a jail; it's meant to be "minimal" (the basic base = system) >>> for jails. so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should = probably >>> add it to minimal-jail. >=20 >> So does =E2=80=9Cminimal=E2=80=9D really mean =E2=80=9Ctypical=E2=80=9D= ?=20 >=20 > no. the project has no opinion on what a "typical jail" might = contain. >=20 > "minimal" is the minimal supported configuration for a multi-user UNIX > system, i.e. the packages that people need to install to bring up a > standard FreeBSD system and have things work as expected. Is there a clash of terms between =E2=80=9Cneed=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D? Maybe that =E2=80=9Cneed=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D ? =20 > "minimal-jail" is "minimal" without software that doesn't work in = jails. > dhclient obviously works in jails, but i ommitted it since i thought = it > was extremely uncommon to use dhclient in a jail. but if this is more > common than i thought, we can add it. It seems you had a definition ("'minimal-jail=E2=80=99 is all minus = {what doesn=E2=80=99t work in a jail}=E2=80=9D AND =E2=80=9Cis the = minimal supported") but ignored it for dhclient.=20 That makes the definition not valid anymore. It also seem that (before the change), dhclient in jails would not have = been supported (as =E2=80=98=E2=80=9Cminimal=E2=80=99 is the *minimal = supported* configuration=E2=80=9D, quote yours, emphasis mine), which = would have been bizarre. If we have definitions, we gotta adhere to them, or it creates = confusions to the users and the developers. Are there other packages for which the definition was ignored? And to be clear, I really appreciate all your work smoothing out corners = for pkgbase. It is just that some of the choices, especially wrt = meta-packages, do not seem to be documented / stated beforehand, so one = may not know what to expect from these packages. Thanks, Matteo From nobody Wed Oct 15 12:53:04 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmrbr6KMVz6CL8R; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:53:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmrbr5qDjz49KR; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:53:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760532792; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=NqAGAmwWTZ1QKg+Gq7rU+jrxegPR0aEdT5lm9JLLMAQ=; b=J0obNSCLUNYpG0tvAiUARuXEricJXaCzfyDtn1+F+fBpHrHwhoqFob8acM7Km+fn96dDxY wQKbMtRpEbLj62KEW/pYa0s1lEygp/VYEUX1gtrDWQmrVQ7+W76ZSL9wYTLc693gamhgaD iUONqROyxpIxbAUgnlOmh3mwIaqmi4ZG0prw5yLqFWODGE5/8iIQ91zSzEVBAxcUl6x6AC XQizoB6HSAYwhzj6OrwKjaJBSkk7aOK4lxiOiAyGoemb4ojgKfHWWP1d693VSST+FPeq8d D21CxECIfampAND505Rmm15lDWXl6ikHGv93EhX30nfHdhnV/zphWod3xkGEYw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760532792; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=NqAGAmwWTZ1QKg+Gq7rU+jrxegPR0aEdT5lm9JLLMAQ=; b=bi1HVS6uEHrDe6T1VXvTmPvvuoQSBwpRnZ1Ah6Kw+3dM0ZI8tWNjNCFWSvJncZK+NNSb2j kIL+fALvl1EHacGw4zhjYaUlHVngM27ePx+YuyVupO+boJ+o5Ih/mv7F1KeviPcKuAcvN5 1L24Z5C9x8opbAlsgEFNj+C495iCRdpm13uY889uvRadZ6b1DRX77emAO+sJyH2tCeOZ5A LyeKXUSmeZA17yCblFk+UkNoJICE0ax1JnHfzQG+C1+NSBLEzsi8HPRDkhpUQz5MSzKdYd 0Av58zzk8neTH3UxMe3gCKnfcWwFVpBAKcSvOBv2FcdW7UvZRwpHXmcgGfRoAA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760532792; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=pwb7bYpgou0ouwrRmmYrOMb96+xdN44iICJcK837k0gldeV6AFU/N4K3sPdMn4S07Efug3 +lP8nTWVSG1jwzvS1QjY+nxRVASdQRKKqvQwvfF76npVWUd0AU6CBIeoJydwMykolxDtfh VNSjsHJAbR+P56QrOKVZm+fveR8hpSIINwvgNouE0C/fC/3Uz7GMZb+F8Op4+AeCvc2tsL ymxWP9Bbl1SVW7jV6k8APZZpMzzdjbxeGlqfgcFT9sYznXJWotKAPIqu8nv0/xyouZ4mtz vGEYafHvsJ6SxkQQpb2uVsaL0EkPr2An/O33gN4HtusIl9kFDrrTGEYkK3IWsw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmrbr286xz8g4; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:53:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:53:04 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Matteo Riondato Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Matteo Riondato , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="HhpXzKZZhD/zZJiC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> --HhpXzKZZhD/zZJiC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matteo Riondato wrote in <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org>: > > On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:28 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: > > "minimal" is the minimal supported configuration for a multi-user UNIX > > system, i.e. the packages that people need to install to bring up a > > standard FreeBSD system and have things work as expected. >=20 > Is there a clash of terms between =E2=80=9Cneed=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Csta= ndard=E2=80=9D? > Maybe that =E2=80=9Cneed=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=80=9D ? no. "minimal" is the minimum set of packages you need to install to bring up a multi-user UNIX system. technically, some of these packages are not "needed". for example, if you don't have any DHCP interfaces, you do not need dhclient. however, the expectation of users is that since we support DHCP, the DHCP client will be installed in the minimal system. > > "minimal-jail" is "minimal" without software that doesn't work in jails. > > dhclient obviously works in jails, but i ommitted it since i thought it > > was extremely uncommon to use dhclient in a jail. but if this is more > > common than i thought, we can add it. >=20 > It seems you had a definition ("'minimal-jail=E2=80=99 is all minus {what > doesn=E2=80=99t work in a jail}=E2=80=9D AND =E2=80=9Cis the minimal supp= orted") but ignored > it for dhclient. That makes the definition not valid anymore. =20 yes, your logic is very clever, but i am more interested in actionable changes we can make to improve the system for users. > It also seem that (before the change), dhclient in jails would not > have been supported (as =E2=80=98=E2=80=9Cminimal=E2=80=99 is the *minima= l supported* > configuration=E2=80=9D, quote yours, emphasis mine), which would have been > bizarre. huh? i never said dhclient in a jail is not supported. "minimal supported configuration" means that for a basic installation of FreeBSD in a multi-user configuration, these are the packages you need to install. it doesn't mean you can't install any other packages. that would obviously be absurd. --HhpXzKZZhD/zZJiC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaO+ZMAAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YD44AP9tsTM9l8SpUROw3OQq/VwjKI9ERxbNqTr/1GRnQhK11AD/ejt7PrMj8xSh lHICMiBXba2w+rdVqRGUuWBD+YXA9gI= =HRIQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --HhpXzKZZhD/zZJiC-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 13:19:23 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmsBP2YQ4z6CNFK for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:19:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rionda@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmsBJ0Tqnz3FZY for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:19:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rionda@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-88e1a22125bso120633785a.2 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 06:19:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1760534374; x=1761139174; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hekg92yqVjnu5orns+m9WnCJaAU4ntzqWR4ZzOBsFm0=; b=XshHpgrtOmje/r4VUshz3TsJdbndxeoDSKXs35X6Iub93ofWnNSYGZtjaMRBwvRxFY 3+vCsEHadqVJJGQ9dlbKyIkUYIvysXWQIiUAYwv2+fgiBmlPFbzDzH8Nz1kqjisdkT+m w1WIsFWMA9xCv4r6om2vvUNRiP4QPrgJyMgFWG6d7+B69xAJNxzgGGe8/zpICbU/pTpk oC1tlnFgg7NEgqCLrRHWoFNtPXeK70db+V/Am6d7XPi/Dwf2TKySL78wi/8+6bJGVwCp HrDjHG24V7bD+cQfTCzr9Rqo5unYoS+TJETTJ856DaDqLcH70EbabzfbxXwudzcPx9Sl BhvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760534374; x=1761139174; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hekg92yqVjnu5orns+m9WnCJaAU4ntzqWR4ZzOBsFm0=; b=gr5fvPcdr9AactZtrWyyqQF8rz4iGFhfP2CRmRVh/olJEd96oevldy3Kb9UBToWoaN VGJezXn8T+jVhtqVx30Gdd8PplRz5Rs9RGj+oLjgCQPw1tVZufXvy6Tmu3rBWedKNeIu lkm7t2eZ3f/3Y1f/a2X0B3jqGryHsYoBlrBAWhuvOFVFbGWrkSoZoH/ZYE/cdfLzM5Nr q5XhtFQ3I5oBDJYjNMq2tPYeObGZkllm7I7Yv4DurIlW4h8QjKLFcxVvX0FF1lQhaWNT Kg2pTRHbQs00jSDeC7fyk7slC7csabOSGuAj22jkpk1mcQYW21aexIanFEWaSGPSbSt7 Vp1g== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWOpCo8r6kvculB8ftYIcBu924AxIZ4xNQQl4UtQL0nUXeIVcx3SBQSc0ENSdMgQXMHkgFbPKVb@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzc5d8g1/pra4WSLcR2nRn6HI/7G1WYdghP+SYU5J5rFsUwYkTj luohU5xjjtIQbuix1r2chccD0FsXZuz7vWSJUP6bifcLVYPz9TxN7hwJ X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctHQA/PbV7Fdd1iZ2dNsl1u7syr6SAQiTrfobzFheN7hS0Abhi+VbZWGmxEA8J VX/7ApObFXYNleGbofIJ49bRyQMdiyUyUZY4bw0gUXm6o4cKK6yb4Jz8xnc9gQ1flQ3qZvnNc04 QYp4bUGqJDw3nPoyOgyU9FprqIJoJAIzItGmbo6277Ca2dbTZ6SrDvvfzvfDaFLWgcuzg50XpoB pdHsyL7U6f67uUjDjKin8uLgdb7CAEgmjVGCu2W1uMf5cYjTZAZgcPdXQhhY3tg8FrJF2gOiPyd bC6464U/A/CBLvD8N1QlHOSpe5uiQdTBS25t5++vfKnRo9XO0LJU4KWcNdkpXL8DEgzfU9One/U VwT5rJKn1Yal4w7txIUI8k4L1cauqvT5+jE+rLIzaao2KWtKk5Lkg7JHA5VSoHld+BOrtT1qULH 0iyaWBH5O3/2+Eqq1G9towWMeVkILP7CYxd03Hobt9GL8cHwwVXHE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF92F0y6HQ8gLSlYMygvwvmNrDRcD+07eCNEo6JWsbSDtsq57c+oCfel0dQ0EdgYo/nBt1JBQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:31a3:b0:86f:4009:de9c with SMTP id af79cd13be357-8835547ab4fmr3940679485a.64.1760534374284; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 06:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pafw-natd-255-216.amherst.edu. [148.85.255.216]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-88ea27b88aasm62469785a.29.2025.10.15.06.19.33 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Oct 2025 06:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.700.6.1.21\)) Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? From: Matteo Riondato In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 09:19:23 -0400 Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> To: Lexi Winter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.700.6.1.21) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cmsBJ0Tqnz3FZY > On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:53 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: >=20 > Matteo Riondato wrote in = <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org>: >>> On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:28 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: >=20 >>> "minimal-jail" is "minimal" without software that doesn't work in = jails. >>> dhclient obviously works in jails, but i ommitted it since i thought = it >>> was extremely uncommon to use dhclient in a jail. but if this is = more >>> common than i thought, we can add it. >>=20 >> It seems you had a definition ("'minimal-jail=E2=80=99 is all minus = {what >> doesn=E2=80=99t work in a jail}=E2=80=9D AND =E2=80=9Cis the minimal = supported") but ignored >> it for dhclient. That makes the definition not valid anymore. >=20 > yes, your logic is very clever, but i am more interested in actionable > changes we can make to improve the system for users. Having clear documentation of what these meta-packages should/must/are = expected include is an actionable change that improves the system for = users: it clarifies to the users what to expect when they install the = meta-packages, and clarifies to developers when to add/remove packages = to/from the meta-packages. >> It also seem that (before the change), dhclient in jails would not >> have been supported (as =E2=80=98=E2=80=9Cminimal=E2=80=99 is the = *minimal supported* >> configuration=E2=80=9D, quote yours, emphasis mine), which would have = been >> bizarre. >=20 > huh? i never said dhclient in a jail is not supported. >=20 > "minimal supported configuration" means that for a basic installation = of > FreeBSD in a multi-user configuration, these are the packages you need > to install. =20 > it doesn't mean you can't install any other packages. that > would obviously be absurd. Gotcha, I misunderstood that. But then, what does =E2=80=9Cminimal supported=E2=80=9D mean, i.e., what = role does =E2=80=9Csupported=E2=80=9D play?=20 If one removes a package (e.g., dhclient), is this configuration not = supported? You are using terms that seem not well defined: what=E2=80=99s a *basic* = (earlier you used the term =E2=80=9Cstandard=E2=80=9D=E2=80=A6are these = equivalent terms?) installation of FreeBSD in a multi-user = configuration? Is there a list of packages that, when installed, create = a basic (or a standard) installation? How did we arrive to this list? Is = it self-defined. e.g., =E2=80=9Cthe packages in minimal define what a = basic/standard FreeBSD installation in a multi-user configuration is=E2=80= =9D? I fear some of the meta-packages may become either a kitchen sink or = =E2=80=9Ctoo minimal=E2=80=9D, if we don=E2=80=99t define exactly what = each should accomplish. Thanks, Matteo From nobody Wed Oct 15 13:20:39 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmsCc31Dbz6CN6l for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:20:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drsnx60@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmsCb5Z01z3Gxq for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:20:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from drsnx60@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=JNnRJIak; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of drsnx60@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::231 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=drsnx60@gmail.com Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-362acd22c78so54354691fa.2 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 06:20:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1760534440; x=1761139240; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:to:content-language :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=WLENcTxG8v/8zf90kXUr17cOvvCsnYAZY/TGvDp7lv4=; b=JNnRJIaktANe0cup29e36EXc3XeWpalPPFc79HOKDU+mBEPlFfH91jelHCgCPj6qaf drnAErbGNJv4tXrTjLjyxv64FHboPGCu/acv4iaILwu4T26HqIJaHShuLouS+ZX1htLq rb2SWvpMJ/xhKECeiuGUA1tOHDiRnTMHx5DeC3Pk1qwgm6kvvH5Albd8jcVO5G+/8Ca+ 2i3SIGKAM0uuD1eR1LzGFZcjmRuE7ljm+wjinK3XQONio0JInsca7/sYk2aDfidP0HAP To5Kua3UbGmAEAIFNZ3LRYO+2CAmPzOIEqICr5QV7MaMlrRqIduhsQc94nya1TJGcsOk vECQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760534440; x=1761139240; h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:to:content-language :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WLENcTxG8v/8zf90kXUr17cOvvCsnYAZY/TGvDp7lv4=; b=qo91FgWinUzgKahDuvnkG5qwizbt9DvLqDs66Poxeb/v5CgovRdpZojWb5oAxzVFfo MMFi3e/PqblNMBVTKoeHdsV10OK2Mkv4KXC8tblkySrhKI4zJzFfPXXj1Jx6jYcim5hm 3EyhWIRklRQMhzxcGKEVaGASClS8WDIfhEigQXNpXooTz2RssSJqYZ6pWcoeVsNxaK8K KAoWletWG60qcgFJGjeZlThh3xkTQxFG0t77Tt6B/xUHka6QEURekktlRG74XY5b4RHU z5xAtpp8a+ocTQaRfvf9tRyd7haJYcuTcS8xqLi4RqH1tVEAAzLLcvTIi45whd2pg+m9 UvFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxN28T75vZGhmxyEaE41EFz7df/vIQeF+Nz0JfSDYJMXPnW8rt3 g4VCsjZSDzRbn75CLm09pxrVoZy5mP3H4osZkgXhW/KZraGV6sgcH4+FHMZ1Agyy X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs3w8vM16FKQDmGD0rSEO6y469EqsiFcSJZIJ55lJ4/MqVYwTHw2mEwL/Oj6AI SZSnOSWsTMRsTyrjoXhNlWyzo6UcQREm9WHHE9qhMA+XYxyLhiMyH82oPwT7p131iDp/jRLdxh9 GzdaxDDzKaId0JS75kANRqxUL++zBtZw0c5kWgNXjYKYshqTLTwLza4vhORCu7Ta/m3cwLHp0Vk 94F4sl1EWubT0yeGb0ich6RQgZszB5tVLtQkvEP1DsdYtZpaxDdN9E5zpqgOtdAOOIuuCzEWMCb C/rkxDyK8o+8NemY6B1BSwtZUHpMFrQJNwky4sBdbCVX9chSlnUDmr9rqgy0uW2sFOWCwIrkFv6 3o9V4K6RI9OXNY56ZnZGyclPdd4Lg5n/Ad/WsXfBB85JArPpKk4i6AKcOCOO7aSdufVCg0K4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGh8Wjn/3gxS8g8j21YQ44sjGL3ralDjtIADQQ5seOhv5fPSR0mHy/UG32Yccx9N9DvxQ3sbg== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:bc1d:0:b0:365:d56c:bfb with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-37609e66a88mr71912091fa.21.1760534440112; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 06:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.131] (host.62.13.8.86.bitcom.se. [62.13.8.86]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-590881f8c6csm6248704e87.28.2025.10.15.06.20.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Oct 2025 06:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 15:20:39 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: sv-SE To: FreeBSD Current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org From: Lars Tunkrans Subject: 15-Beta1 installer creates ZFS encrypted user directories owned by ROOT. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.991]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::231:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cmsCb5Z01z3Gxq    HI,          tried  this  a  few  times  now.             running  "Adduser "   at  the  end  of  the 15-Beta1  "Installation from ISO"-utility    ,          and  creating them as ZFS  encrypted  , results  in  $HOME   directory  owned  by ROOT. On  New  installtion  installed  from  ISO and after owervriting  previous  data  on  storage medium. root@server:~ # cd /home root@server:/home # ls -la total 10 drwxr-xr-x   3 root wheel  3 Oct 15 14:16 . drwxr-xr-x  20 root wheel 23 Oct 15 15:07 .. drwxr-xr-x   2 root wheel  2 Oct 15 14:16  username root@server :/home #       I  this  a  known  fenomena  or  a  new  bug  ?   Regards    //Lars From nobody Wed Oct 15 13:31:04 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmsRp2VcPz6CNvD; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:31:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmsRp1xbhz3Ntj; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:31:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760535078; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=r2HJCN3acY0ev05oXU8WN3OaoxRDUFBVRnmmjNBoBfw=; b=MmNptMmqalK7HN43ClxEEcIIxJqgubO0/LMq1zlb85nSpdytp67RAvtSn9cG8MYaM/NvIG i8bpAFyY/SIWA1ByJkYerXgLmU3kTTbWyvyBNYZEbJq5r6Bj4r0CFRg6ZI3RoLf8YLza0D f8wkIL0xq+b/oH4MmUe1fW32wjgVjsf3nmQ5HaR/UXB4WCK/mKhccezVMvh0go2Bw9UeoG XT6SGcBWJuFOXu859Wlgkt+UDsVE2q95owwzeLOoi1i/WvYerb8cZOh6shI9bC3mo9LKop VsmoIWF27csiPk2bDOhQtiwRsdCnvAdgmcB/74jXU/ycTgBhZD9LLkacoyJD2w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760535078; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=r2HJCN3acY0ev05oXU8WN3OaoxRDUFBVRnmmjNBoBfw=; b=Xl5IMnv+P/8K94ZJd25KzWxSqQLlYh2H8BCYV0B8Y477v+HPHqgt5/RBCq6g6Om1b7Z9Oq 0tvDsC5Hyk+eHMOWC9HcEYp7DbbP3+7Ol5aW26poSJw4ejH1N0xOS5SYqOhzH7fAfgxxqb wTIun68+X+2FMr/hKrjjSFcAGxJeHgnONdYYrR0vWJ9ZZJiWKSZ2dTZEuQ7NnlpnIx0LvO VPVVZZGLqqSsP1oZXiLPR4GhyxVDLQgwONPbnDJR0v+0pzGQ+EfpANaOlVuyYk/Fb0Kp6Q Edgn2tzDxL5kNXsNoA/Iu4sohd0OyCT6gMsOoDWIACeJFa5FNE06gUIhYt4svA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760535078; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bbrycrdx8O0p0E01DixzzgQ18dsFFy9VssdJQAKJnaXdnMgdQv/Yg/M2mMQ8x9FsHgWyYJ eyJcm9bwKPw0LlGYJDKaQtLvodhrkS+gjMfJMJvtsyVnrPKhsJiJ+I5/ITh9B4RW2niJEN /zs83HUKB5tutmpo4GYdx/yUVzmg1VgisvbiOmDOTqQU+U+jK0dnZP4TV28wiYaDb8zi1X xx7ZemwifNe4k+uFTjQjGHHGK7jC/scRHQQ+dWbEiKbY/MlIRuhz1IRqo//1GlxgRAYIIN /tZK/vc67qz9nAqci55WST+jQOObBjqqbOxdcNnr1VkTot0Nv8/yGZnh5W4PAg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmsRn5Ngpz9mH; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 14:31:04 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Matteo Riondato Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Matteo Riondato , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xTSqGehRKnTiz2SD" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> --xTSqGehRKnTiz2SD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matteo Riondato wrote in <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org>: > Having clear documentation of what these meta-packages should/must/are > expected include is an actionable change that improves the system for > users: it clarifies to the users what to expect when they install the > meta-packages, and clarifies to developers when to add/remove packages > to/from the meta-packages. if you think the description of the set-* packages is not clear, please submit a diff to improve them. i was in somewhat of a hurry to get this into the system, so i'm sure someone else could do a better job. > > "minimal supported configuration" means that for a basic > > installation of FreeBSD in a multi-user configuration, these are the > > packages you need to install. it doesn't mean you can't install any > > other packages. that would obviously be absurd. >=20 > But then, what does =E2=80=9Cminimal supported=E2=80=9D mean, i.e., what = role does > =E2=80=9Csupported=E2=80=9D play?=20 it doesn't really mean anything. it's a word i made up for the purpose of this thread, to explain what the set packages are for. i apologise if this has created confusion as to the purpose of the set packages. the actual description of the set-minimal package is: This metapackage installs the packages required to bring up a basic multi-user system. now, you will probably turn around and ask what "basic" means. i don't know the answer to that. essentially, it means this is what we consider to be the basic set of packages that people expect to exist on a FreeBSD installation. this is the set of packages that people can pick without thinking about it, when running bsdinstall on a new system, and end up with a system that is basically functional. the opposite of "basic" is "optional": set-optional installs "optional" software which is not considered part of the basic system. to pick some random example, something which is "optional" and not "basic" is the iSCSI target and initiator. why? simply because you don't *need* iSCSI support to bring up a new FreeBSD system; it's the type of thing you would simply install if you need it. what we consider "basic" vs what we consider "optional" is certainly open to discussion, and if there's somethings which is in set-minimal that should not be, or vice versa, we can adjust that. it would be a good idea to do that ASAP, before 15.0 is released. --xTSqGehRKnTiz2SD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaO+iFQAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YBZ1AQDS98ZaKWFYlwKvlGV1hbGQiuNFdSU3lAB0higit0TQ6QEAtPgyA2GV5u5c TaZ7/ErUUQwSUvAB2gSheYjHCRvSXw8= =f/SA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xTSqGehRKnTiz2SD-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 13:37:51 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmsbW6htHz6CPsc for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:37:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmsbW2nfJz3R4S; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:37:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760535479; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=aVgRin5hBn/ZUSrscWk1PYuB+F8QjPa+iS15wE9u/Uc=; b=B7zuKPtwfDp8joAmOvWZa9SNQOIUJ9cl70/eqzth/mlmlMQzMvLGgWppetwTEBeyzi8NnM aDrqZ6CaDqCG1pXlwmEmy9qNmbk7tNkgxebS1oe/uM13k5gtJZAzijBOTYSncmytPlKoUH I4RolQfBJZM1Y0RuXfVr+IQq0JqIbHVD5QUfcTQPKlQil/9rr6gLwOWoFRCi1fewU5ZQbp /SyX3cAhhgtxuTtJHQSj3vHurMVESK4rpBPEFbDcoIzzGhGI2Au3FtFlN4MnJs5U385SNO 4htHKOFADfFNtuJVzyX/J/x6hzPN2hpu3AKwKtrYj4wboRzWoGsamiifCKId5g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760535479; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=aVgRin5hBn/ZUSrscWk1PYuB+F8QjPa+iS15wE9u/Uc=; b=qIaXlzwpcZur8NE+ODflbph9gFv29ZvPjZAU+sHMXWCG3L7rA/gp/MLUMq76kCFP6OTjHy 2vOkuWRrU6OJfkbVHcUOj0s5DMEZwx3GNFu0/Q5tBigLJdCQx8yo0SNtDmQ2haa+Sgvv9t 8zbkd7Ni6s1MunsiHT5i0tXIWUTe6GZkrkMxieFqGijKohE96WeYfOlCXqyW9CWVPYSXXo wM9ZhyplfGK/NoswEqAomihs/ipi4IqTnLphaF9WbekmDOrTaXnSw4hjIMkqgj7d3sQCJY x3z1CdQuCwedtoqF29sTZUJtunKr74qoCObCMx+cutfMlhF7STApCbZV0eZFbg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760535479; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Vzs0L7SLnP43/GIFwHWSb0bFlGIXvRllTZcctH2m/0wS5/pSFhvQshnwqqd3KGlRYkFn0P Mioa3bNrq9MrK+zj1nmzhryLxcwOKCDLqX4GEB2gWO30V1Q1zpdmRgxIwmsYJ//YyGtn8R j6ZsD7U6EdLI9U2HZqOXxKTbDcOm+02xZ5g61/WrdX5U+7Xm2WJglxlrShOD3GAKbhZyar iRV8mQWiJDS2/1tgwUtMAosRT4Y2AsdSUQaRB23UJy8tZEDxbVBT9CPQVPTAAO1eB6J7Nv EOp2vB/YwBVv5TqaKMTERufGb+hA3iEC7TpUmnCZYiMStkgRAXuXc2xTccmbhA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmsbV5hxrz9vV; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:37:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 14:37:51 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Ronald Klop Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7II/7uTAXc9w8K1o" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> --7II/7uTAXc9w8K1o Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Ronald Klop wrote in <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost>: > Should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53115 --7II/7uTAXc9w8K1o Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaO+jrgAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YGClAQDNKxcjXCSJjkweIWtAzuT9uX3VzVn26UC6bldg7q/iiwEAsqpJkkvvKq35 2w5hbzawuOe2zJR0PWQYO6HHbJkDugE= =h4Cg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7II/7uTAXc9w8K1o-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 13:39:02 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmsd91TyWz6CPyL for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:39:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Received: from mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmsd65C4Tz3S7q for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 13:39:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ketas.si.pri.ee header.s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096 header.b=JePVuTd6; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=ketas.si.pri.ee; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee designates 2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-current-freebsd-org111@ketas.si.pri.ee X-Original-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ketas.si.pri.ee; s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096; t=1760535543; bh=5w24PwjOdG2EeY3ft6mzQFq23xl+Vv8T1y7//lJRncs=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=JePVuTd6fd+xH3w8rivUS5oYszSUKZpLqyEvuRWUSZ/rvWMS8ZPqsowFyKyvi+E9C qBPen+6ccA95yA2mJ5g0vmOjGPGc94YXVqi5pgi1glBtwIffiozmCBNPUVTeDxDr7+ O8KBG7AyQHL459faFd+pchybBYrs5620FdDMqifgo8UNOOE2p8d5iXy0vI/HxUq7ZK Lopt3IYjMFmTZFSyzx9gJKjLMpsOJ6+pjUY+z9abmhcw4AnufKVMfuRxtbi+gf2ZuD DboudMWZB46excVzy5IXqcKG3+2X87baVzqn9I3L3CtBQECWzLSjoxnYj4mSTCsrLb mm5c0tBOwBRFL81sYps4khJwdvBV5YolLDeg+xZ6MfqBSWsY9R/hrVuqjFtwFRRdIZ /+ODyHmzNEmQ8jK1TVu3BJt2qNA0O/3u3Xww62wRVWSydfhWoAjj13zo01UYItOCnJ tCIX9S2wqMdq6opajNQHYBWRKIRir6G/+P0YRBCPUxNof9m/h4Go2cODOLAf6050IF /mKQnB8FZDcE4phBa19jd4JqlHhUrXbogn5fQzKpztcxAYrBQn3GW5S+SHh+/jfbR3 phqzTnfAypfjW48J6KrvxN37yvduQkj0dnMkUKuLFk5PMmP2F90vcexdkNXl3uJHmO ZBt1qZ0sV4V5kdO7fYe3dIXk= Received: from ehlo.thunderbird.net (0115-0000-0000-0000-13c8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13c8::115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EFC055B89D4 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 16:39:02 +0300 (EEST) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 16:39:02 +0300 From: Sulev-Madis Silber To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.20 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.996]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cmsd65C4Tz3S7q On October 15, 2025 3:28:01 PM GMT+03:00, Lexi Winter = wrote: >Matteo Riondato wrote in <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD=2E= org>: >> > On Oct 15, 2025, at 8:16 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: >> > NB, "set-minimal-jail" is not intended to be the smallest possible se= t >> > of packages for a jail; it's meant to be "minimal" (the basic base sy= stem) >> > for jails=2E so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should pr= obably >> > add it to minimal-jail=2E >=20 >> So does =E2=80=9Cminimal=E2=80=9D really mean =E2=80=9Ctypical=E2=80=9D= ?=20 >=20 >no=2E the project has no opinion on what a "typical jail" might contain= =2E > >"minimal" is the minimal supported configuration for a multi-user UNIX >system, i=2Ee=2E the packages that people need to install to bring up a >standard FreeBSD system and have things work as expected=2E > >"minimal-jail" is "minimal" without software that doesn't work in jails= =2E >dhclient obviously works in jails, but i ommitted it since i thought it >was extremely uncommon to use dhclient in a jail=2E but if this is more >common than i thought, we can add it=2E unsure how much we should add to minimal become it comes generic, usual or= "maximal" (:p) i run full separate networking in my otherwise shared fs non-pkgbase-yet r= o-/ & ro-/usr/local jails with dynamic v4/v6 ip / dns assigns, so i indeed = do run all of this others might not=2E but dhclient is maybe small, we can afford adding it i= n and not have people cursing of large deps and ton of space i think that ones who actually need full custom jails have passed the offi= cial sets anyway and created their own, just like i've done for my embedded= things From nobody Wed Oct 15 15:16:19 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmvn95GD2z6CXHw; 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mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmvn8700szCNq; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 15:16:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 16:16:19 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Roger Marquis Cc: Matteo Riondato , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Roger Marquis , Matteo Riondato , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7KCbEGspAgC8rypo" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com> --7KCbEGspAgC8rypo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Roger Marquis wrote in <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com>: > I think most of us would define a minimal jail again -- i appreciate this is not very clear from the package name -- the "minimal-jail" set is not "a minimal jail". it is the "minimal" set, i.e. the set of packages required for a basic multi-user UNIX system, but without packages which don't work in a jail. we will never ship a set for a "minimal jail" because this is entirely up to the user requirements. there is *no* package which is absolutely required to install a jail, because it depends on what you will install in the jail. so it doesn't make sense to ship any sort of package set like this. > * provide access via the posix shell: `jexec $jail /bin/sh`, /bin/sh is not required for a jail. --7KCbEGspAgC8rypo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; 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[148.85.255.216]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-88f35c65b0dsm3961985a.16.2025.10.15.09.05.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Oct 2025 09:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.700.6.1.21\)) Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? From: Matteo Riondato In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:05:24 -0400 Cc: Roger Marquis , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <822F9D2B-A82F-4765-8765-6604F9F79CBC@FreeBSD.org> References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com> To: Lexi Winter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.700.6.1.21) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cmwst34q0z3pjQ > On Oct 15, 2025, at 11:16 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: >=20 > Roger Marquis wrote in = <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com>: >> I think most of us would define a minimal jail >=20 > again -- i appreciate this is not very clear from the package name -- > the "minimal-jail" set is not "a minimal jail". it is the "minimal" > set, i.e. the set of packages required for a basic multi-user UNIX > system, but without packages which don't work in a jail. Would calling it =E2=80=9Cbasic-jail=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cstandard-jail=E2= =80=9D (terms used in previous emails on this thread) perhaps be more = descriptive? Thanks, Matteo From nobody Wed Oct 15 16:59:15 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmy3x04lNz6CgFc; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 16:59:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmy3w6kYVz3vLj; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 16:59:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760547564; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Pvz5jwGKClP9Ym9e7J0njqehOZ4kw7bVyzdf5+Nl4mo=; b=kB20Jj7t49akmdvSIaaSMbZUFCvv+BPzus5UZS3m4jnMzN3tgBG2Xc0/mrKSrxzFLH+X18 oTRTTqJX/wjN2DT41n+l1/YB7KWdXgwTPj5qRlIHJJfKs19ybHVOIW2b4znUfCaI9W4UJI twNbBE6L1W4li94yFzzVGK7TsHPZfg8clZmpX5o6rro6nyYI1rRKpYmoupKbJwdaHpSPAb 4rTPv5gXEAikpMGSbOiOlWTpRZIqzgXsUaw+w8vP+/LGfaV3L35FL26t3DiP/5DxAowYHu OlnRjiH1gmU8MegeYMJWyK0DfMEnfiWFEEqgw5bSL/e5DLeluIyR7d+55nvHkg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760547564; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Pvz5jwGKClP9Ym9e7J0njqehOZ4kw7bVyzdf5+Nl4mo=; b=v5zr9zr0U20x1joKB2nJ+MLFFXJL2mVqruZpf35fs7lb0bf/tq4zBzh4P5EeiD8IF+pzhc 9BJ4lD4YLD/tflkhoEKMU/KzLYB9+PbHLb5h00jwsZ7x6fyXXEZUi0B/m0BVrXm4QvDVe+ fGK60/wYVm6ouiETS0KSchM7GDtsdjejAinpA/pO8AL2rdBM8TWPseWll56NtBUA2HQyh5 REzOaIwwg4c3W8tb8jHR8pBQYhBjuBSWDoPbYzpJn5rPh3Sa4h1O3zdTa9kx23vvicB77E yeiNTR9pHnrw+UnAKJ4HG3Vqvv+TloqKB6+fjTY/fuckEZZeks1C5fIGfHYQsQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760547564; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZBeD0ob4h/wpSSJcHSVpw5+K9VZKuPyKVb54aXC/I/hxhjz8YPqPH5J2A5Qznf/4dpWR+u UOIcG9PFkbojmWvlcYY/USZf5qeAQ2VmlN7/AxU0fdKzNniiV/yTvfmPlJTa63/UO4moB2 0svFNfwDIqWim72/HfRDwIj+2GWbtOyME00kwGr3r42wiA8CULnjEWS0ZXxNu3XcKzgtl5 UCOk66JjBuV/jMDndLdlHR1AL2rsUF4qS5dF6vabVPhhE9V0nXvRZAiVF2OTnOI16xaVNf gG17SB3MItc/vUMJRq+P16se4wTZMYn3DkNpCwbQJ1HKGWEQQfJA/lwkaAVl4g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmy3w2jy6zFMP; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 16:59:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 17:59:15 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Roger Marquis Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Roger Marquis , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="pGgWlkskTzDhD1Dr" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --pGgWlkskTzDhD1Dr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roger Marquis wrote in : > On Wed, 15 Oct 2025, Lexi Winter wrote: > > we will never ship a set for a "minimal jail" because this is entirely > > up to the user requirements. there is *no* package which is absolutely > > required to install a jail, because it depends on what you will install > > in the jail. so it doesn't make sense to ship any sort of package set > > like this. >=20 > How could it not make sense when 'distroless' Linux container images are > so popular? i have no idea what a "distroless Linux container image" is. could you please describe this in more detail? --pGgWlkskTzDhD1Dr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaO/S3wAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YJDYAQCZH9Q4G7AHGulfCf0QiogV2Mw+pwGJGGanGdhzSs17fwD/RXILzMvXXqsX vYNUsLgLqCISXoaJ6fANutzyGIdRKgk= =aZeC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pGgWlkskTzDhD1Dr-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 17:23:37 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cmyc21Wdrz6Cj2y; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 17:23:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cmyc163JSz3y5R; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 17:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760549025; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=YjgLb6wHspQLttk+l+YgJNJDTqUl44J5xLp/JGapwIo=; b=alseABdmuk7OxxAPlT8OQGD2fz3rZNEThlG4RiDn62oxAIQLq7V3uMdh5tku3hfD++5FJI Sb94D0HkzbfHliz+5qINxL2V1mYXgLt+bqgx2PeecDHzcCQ3SJywTa/g2Vv/kUsq3tokDo MZw8Zkvtvzhe0SzHdqZuNByaNtJj9eKFszJ00gBMhpdwhKBzslzNk+74PGaKB6hJEJ9dsl 7ygVtXVPms1prfzr1Rh3/MM7yhM1VF05rfSNN7V/q7wBaazIeUAT3N7il+05Hpo6OrpaTE 8IPjmdPy8wS6bNR3L7x+59vdxHJ4tOPV+mZcsDbVfO4vltPO+8h14/VUpRBAMA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760549025; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=YjgLb6wHspQLttk+l+YgJNJDTqUl44J5xLp/JGapwIo=; b=HDshYk8so24DMy9VIyr1QMKiBV+01hpoKwx3qh6wnG7MsgeN85iNexQ4ZDwLDWZslO/KlR fH2yP7YM4AWMdIC2U5P0LKJ8ps9O3Xkv/onQ/EevwlfJi/9rRzgXeZxuToLSVKKalQr7p7 nkNsYbepK8bKMdIC/59r8M1h++lnDrN4yZtncehPYBHTpxeST1G8f9jltxA7MshLqb2k0t NojSJYs1LauoFSZLy3HmM4YzOcrcvPYE0jivYedf9MJLPW/pPPsr3Dt0VFgRPQlv0fHENu Y2R9+oLn2qmKMMrlhSUtYVmC5x/LUto71Fbpy5+SRJQXp2gPYpB6ImbNqYtJdg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760549025; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=DJTYUx4AXFHFdglwNxM+Z/ehNY2IWOmiQW+JdAV2yd8Q/nN7H0O+852F5wnffZeZ/BDjt7 5f39cATxjkss3qpI+GkUUlRMKGeFyjqh/b5hmMSmMjqNFee8budPV87ATlDqNv5A00vSVn jOyjg60o0xOttjg6JYVe8V3eP3RucJ67oYYRMMphtpQc/AByURkjB5jTOMCWCABiG3rTOp c5wI2usbO2YYvH5WMaPq71XsNFeOGXyFHsutTIHPb86NTnzs+TV2gvWVVN8ChptWAz0sWC KjBGdJ7SPoqNJTLsPgNqb+rHMZIl/joEfS0kiKSCqturoVbQS3mqiPEUYuUV0A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cmyc126VhzG9c; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 17:23:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 18:23:37 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Roger Marquis , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Roger Marquis , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xRuoIOtLaVCkKrhp" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --xRuoIOtLaVCkKrhp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lexi Winter wrote in : > Roger Marquis wrote in : > > On Wed, 15 Oct 2025, Lexi Winter wrote: > > > we will never ship a set for a "minimal jail" because this is entirely > > > up to the user requirements. there is *no* package which is absolute= ly > > > required to install a jail, because it depends on what you will insta= ll > > > in the jail. so it doesn't make sense to ship any sort of package set > > > like this. > >=20 > > How could it not make sense when 'distroless' Linux container images are > > so popular? >=20 > i have no idea what a "distroless Linux container image" is. could you > please describe this in more detail? i asked another committer about this, and they explained that a "distroless Linux container image" is a container image which only contains basic system files like /etc/passwd and /etc/resolv.conf, for use with a statically-linked application, like a Go app. this is something i would like to support in pkgbase and am actively working on, but it has nothing to do with sets, at least not right now. certainly, if we do support this in pkgbase, it will have nothing to do with the "minimal" set. does that make sense? --xRuoIOtLaVCkKrhp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaO/YlQAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YOOQAQDjiXLsZzwjKx88LXl0XbATyU1TmHngj4NfCzogxcugLwD+Jy4QqUXyPCnD yC2i6VGu2utwOhcKJm5mOukcHZ8PUwQ= =7UOW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xRuoIOtLaVCkKrhp-- From nobody Wed Oct 15 18:48:46 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cn0VM6LbRz6Cpfw; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 18:48:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cn0VM29MCz4BCH; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 18:48:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (124-18-6-240.area1c.commufa.jp [124.18.6.240]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.18.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 59FImk7L059058; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:48:48 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1760554129; bh=bqODoDv+I+qhyglXA4nd0hbWiY7AwntvD515N8So8MU=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=MEYnCLZ768PvkQZmp3tPH6ShJe95Z3Pd+1S5IYJKubBtd4khE58GeUUYftUiouvmk Ez/LIrnklHzhZLi8bka5lTNvBlfefw3ZkCMNHzkptyEEY6QjidpleShifl48x9Ih1r lOqT3KI2rRfTQWGAmKNHdfs/7ECuMU2qg5UeVAcA= Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:48:46 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: Matteo Riondato Cc: Lexi Winter , Roger Marquis , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-Id: <20251016034846.3d02dbeea6af57e75f68a8ef@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <822F9D2B-A82F-4765-8765-6604F9F79CBC@FreeBSD.org> References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com> <822F9D2B-A82F-4765-8765-6604F9F79CBC@FreeBSD.org> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cn0VM29MCz4BCH On Wed, 15 Oct 2025 12:05:24 -0400 Matteo Riondato wrote: > > On Oct 15, 2025, at 11:16 AM, Lexi Winter wrote: > > > > Roger Marquis wrote in <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com>: > >> I think most of us would define a minimal jail > > > > again -- i appreciate this is not very clear from the package name -- > > the "minimal-jail" set is not "a minimal jail". it is the "minimal" > > set, i.e. the set of packages required for a basic multi-user UNIX > > system, but without packages which don't work in a jail. > > Would calling it “basic-jail” or “standard-jail” (terms used in previous emails on this thread) perhaps be more descriptive? > > Thanks, > Matteo I prefer"minimal" here, as term "standard" should be different case-by-case. For admins who want to run each services exposing to Internet to be run on jails "per service", "minimal" is equal to "standard". But, especially corporate admins who needs "per-emproyee" jails for security, almost full sets of base plus common-apps-of-the-corporate ports should be called "standard (of the corporate)". -- Tomoaki AOKI From nobody Wed Oct 15 22:29:51 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cn5PZ0zMSz6D5Xs; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 22:30:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cn5PY3VcSz3SX8; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 22:30:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=ultimatedns.net header.s=mx99 header.b=sJIdMAPh; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bsd-lists@bsdforge.com designates 24.113.41.81 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 59FMTqJE054232; Wed, 15 Oct 2025 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ultimatedns.net; s=mx99; t=1760567403; x=1760568003; r=y; bh=pbtt9TS3+OxPIU5ReEJICGmyrjqtIhM1VY5he6X5qdk=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=sJIdMAPhesX3EejQ6q7VPe/L4ROmRTRzNbxF3ypK4ZWa1TRqp6G9B2KDjA7d/4pJr loNcDHx4zbl/PgrSCISqcuKgDcYGhbSeBeRZukYxrRXKkbusW3S/YXNkg29C60BdE9 fYolYs03fTse8RlSyno+3eu8/HDp4qc0t6sQwRb+gqEEeLxKqeTw+F2lqY4ztphMsr TqZLQiNQriqBqI7YVojSEWjSI8P6uIl7KVHG3/LF8Wj1JNIaRwzF1oR3O8xYHT/uET fFxcbfupnKMFVTzclAhD5e0amEbM+KlGGHmTs/gOJAzZ/qA0SBDdagfLuTBE/eevOk p2s98En0ngRIw== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2025 15:29:51 -0700 From: Chris To: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? In-Reply-To: References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_71c1a582787d02985cbe37a671b88a41" X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.00 / 15.00]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[ultimatedns.net:s=mx99]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; MIME_UNKNOWN(0.10)[application/pgp-keys]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ultimatedns.net:-]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[pkgbase@freebsd.org,current@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=multimap; Matched map: local_wl_ip X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cn5PY3VcSz3SX8 --=_71c1a582787d02985cbe37a671b88a41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2025-10-15 05:16, Lexi Winter wrote: > Ronald Klop wrote in <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost>: >> Yesterday I installed a 15-BETA1 jail using pkgbase >> FreeBSD-set-minimal-jail. I was missing FreeBSD-dhclient which is >> fine and I installed it. Then it didn't have DNS as FreeBSD-resolvconf >> was missing. I understand that theoretically dhclient can operate >> without resolvconf, but in practice they seem pretty useful together. >> >> Should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? > > dhclient should depend on resolvconf and i will fix this. > > i am curious how widespread dhclient use in jails is. should we add > dhclient to set-minimal-jail? > > NB, "set-minimal-jail" is not intended to be the smallest possible set > of packages for a jail; it's meant to be "minimal" (the basic base system) > for jails. > so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should probably > add it to minimal-jail. IMHO isn't the HOST responsible for routing? Doesn't that make dhclient and friends somewhat unusual (not average jail(8) setup?). -- There is no such place as the internet --=_71c1a582787d02985cbe37a671b88a41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_71c1a582787d02985cbe37a671b88a41-- From nobody Thu Oct 16 10:43:37 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnPh51G3Xz6CDQH for ; 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Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:37 +0300 (EEST) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:37 +0300 From: Sulev-Madis Silber To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com> References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com> Message-ID: <43B04C0C-E5D4-4A21-8340-FD800FA5B0BB@ketas.si.pri.ee> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.22 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.985]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cnPh36qwTz3ghn On October 16, 2025 1:29:51 AM GMT+03:00, Chris = wrote: >On 2025-10-15 05:16, Lexi Winter wrote: >> Ronald Klop wrote in <324231230=2E147694=2E1760527890049@localhost>: >>> Yesterday I installed a 15-BETA1 jail using pkgbase >>> FreeBSD-set-minimal-jail=2E I was missing FreeBSD-dhclient which is >>> fine and I installed it=2E Then it didn't have DNS as FreeBSD-resolvco= nf >>> was missing=2E I understand that theoretically dhclient can operate >>> without resolvconf, but in practice they seem pretty useful together= =2E >>>=20 >>> Should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? >>=20 >> dhclient should depend on resolvconf and i will fix this=2E >>=20 >> i am curious how widespread dhclient use in jails is=2E should we add >> dhclient to set-minimal-jail? >>=20 >> NB, "set-minimal-jail" is not intended to be the smallest possible set >> of packages for a jail; it's meant to be "minimal" (the basic base syst= em) >> for jails=2E > > >> so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should probably >> add it to minimal-jail=2E >IMHO isn't the HOST responsible for routing? Doesn't that make dhclient >and friends somewhat unusual (not average jail(8) setup?)=2E > in jail, host does all the routing anyway, it's within same kernel but one might need isolated virtual networks since admins are humans, they might need a way to make this appear sane an= d understandable=2E unfortunately this needs dhcpd, dhclient, rtadvd, rtsol= d, ra in same host it all makes things bit more bloaty=2E or a lot=2E but you get it more ea= sily i don't know how this could be changed to kernel doesn't need to do networ= king with itself which is wtf but virtual networking is a think=2E vale switches, epairs+bridges=2E in f= act whole vm is technological wtf but it's so handy i don't have solution to this, how to make it technically better but still= understandable to humans=2E all i could think is just run dhclient and swa= p that meg of ram out or so if needed this doesn't matter here too=2E dhclient works in jail=2E it has legit use= =2E so if minimal jail is a set of all packages that work in jail=2E let it= all be in on naming, i don't have opinion here=2E i never confuse things=2E others m= ight=2E but then, minimal needs change? unfortuntely you don't do changes l= ike this=2E minimal set is already advertised and this will bite users who = already use it tho, i admit i misread it at first too=2E because i take minimal as reduce= d fbsd=2E i build my own embedded dists, i call them min or minimal, becaus= e i took things away from fbsd base and minimized it but at it, if it's minimal working fbsd, unsure=2E besides there's no conf= usion where it comes from, if from project, then all know From nobody Thu Oct 16 10:56:25 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnPz5467kz6CFKv for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:56:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dfr@rabson.org) Received: from mail-lf1-x133.google.com (mail-lf1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cnPz46PJ5z3jrj for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 10:56:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dfr@rabson.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rabson-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=UDhJUSex; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dfr@rabson.org designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::133 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dfr@rabson.org Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-591c98ebe90so628303e87.3 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:56:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rabson-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1760612197; x=1761216997; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JZ3vFgWFmn48UhBxIe5Sqd6NRWrMUhxB9hYPZNxQVMQ=; b=UDhJUSexSvLVLYw1d9I+IdUriFrDcAkZWAlzMuDtcMXgKOKkgP1/GKInEGhjUFAwYm EY8zv3o5ol2HWHa8z1sGlriwGMxRf09RkK/Ls9gDMWw3PPV1Q24tAKU4IBzPpDGklXF1 EvYTwftRHivr2RFzYv+Eie/WxrJnmFzbTKbk4v08QSnqcgRAeELpMuD7q6MJfoBkLvyI D3nUHRL8ytjHejjNuav8oE4esGkr6C8DFzM+hiltSnR7FHbzFD36A+vK889KIJ5hUfJK jZsSUGUdNE3s3jM+pHOVdZm4tNkrO072HJUunEjilPmlHzXYpB1aWlNP+N8YBmmR5x9Q DXuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760612197; x=1761216997; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JZ3vFgWFmn48UhBxIe5Sqd6NRWrMUhxB9hYPZNxQVMQ=; b=qsmx/la0CgmqL+ASPwa8eWpCoqSCpHWVZqAiQ1gt7zYohz2mRaDduwNvoT/G8pfH2m Ud/3y7XjdEmksPtTrSzgpIKuKa6iBErvS3uZVqqNuAhxJfckR0GAZbGk52dgy+kkv7Na E5zpW9oXw118LLJM5Ya5hNYA0SUa8XljXISkCfOpWJSZtvgPpFdF3K/R+BD7Bvs1rKI+ ZGSJSUDmZYdeL3qJwiDPbNyHLPyR6ueVmJ19RmkfTpsgufPJga1H72adteFluVXs9NAk bgqXGYmTw02SJos0Uh2la0Y+mN7MDYDlodIc1V6BOeN348hTiC+KLuZL6qlufyYwvXLM /uRQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWySs/1GFLtThxALetvnSZ66si+03d3/0TlyeU8VM1tRPDy2rxqnpkN7Gd8dZRkUDpy25m+yQyt@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxMTZ/nJNJJtC1rPTLSnEjMVisKjLjV4PAjsKX2XGsAKzuyn3Fu VnHyWjgj0aF53mFf2foPFjB8C53bcMHEPl/ENQvlWxUzi4ac+RqcYLWiBD1n5ctTDH1Yw0WwS/V 6eixk+JU0VQEB9SXJa9SeJQybIfeyPNv36/iu464cHTw6ngIcC6kDFZyClA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncviUQK23X35uX7+Ex0W1+2hBR8hiOERz/jg4lGJ9N8RemwFD//MV9xI2r8bOPe 9CvPuYgEXNxtr9IUIrO10tm6iT3MnreuHXhGLvfJac7vYcCthSijbCm4qkH/hyVjf6dGzRJ/yfr kYRobG0PEgZYXNLc9dTdCyVJAnT8nloxQrsC6fkIZB48Sb/ZDICseEdJE6XS4LCCimEMUmLK0rj B+VQW92Mh0zPK4XocphyXf0YTApyknhHdKIX3Ooe5FSZpbJ553tOy+c+YfUf68MFfhH+Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHiCntpu96uPVe0UiNR1qU9L4soid9aFt27fVSjr7zl3RVanbqj6TuQ71A6tJaz3fBUAe8cVN7pGl2o4OLSzwo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:b12:b0:57b:8a82:1dce with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5906dc0d5a0mr8819683e87.19.1760612196854; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:56:36 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <43B68BB6-02FA-470E-A8C5-99D15E3707D7@FreeBSD.org> <89861E7A-64C7-47CB-89F6-A93AB14813FF@FreeBSD.org> <3E63F63B-0C90-43E2-BF55-30310B7599D3@FreeBSD.org> <7r257p26-qqs6-r1q3-9456-qn3o02rson6r@mx.roble.com> In-Reply-To: From: Doug Rabson Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 11:56:25 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWD5MFnKvcKY5EqOfQQaEpOBhagOG2lrBOBmYJd2b1gyxoPcg5mOlYcDOw4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? To: Roger Marquis , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000094bef806414478d2" X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rabson-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[dfr]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::133:from]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[rabson.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rabson-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cnPz46PJ5z3jrj --00000000000094bef806414478d2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, 15 Oct 2025 at 18:23, Lexi Winter wrote: > Lexi Winter wrote in : > > Roger Marquis wrote in < > q352p06q-s3ro-r489-s82r-o45n5219os65@mx.roble.com>: > > > On Wed, 15 Oct 2025, Lexi Winter wrote: > > > > we will never ship a set for a "minimal jail" because this is > entirely > > > > up to the user requirements. there is *no* package which is > absolutely > > > > required to install a jail, because it depends on what you will > install > > > > in the jail. so it doesn't make sense to ship any sort of package > set > > > > like this. > > > > > > How could it not make sense when 'distroless' Linux container images > are > > > so popular? > > > > i have no idea what a "distroless Linux container image" is. could you > > please describe this in more detail? > > i asked another committer about this, and they explained that a > "distroless Linux container image" is a container image which only > contains basic system files like /etc/passwd and /etc/resolv.conf, > for use with a statically-linked application, like a Go app. > > this is something i would like to support in pkgbase and am actively > working on, but it has nothing to do with sets, at least not right now. > > certainly, if we do support this in pkgbase, it will have nothing to do > with the "minimal" set. > > does that make sense? > For what it's worth, the freebsd-static and freebsd-dynamic OCI images which are part of our release build are inspired by Google's distroless images (https://github.com/GoogleContainerTools/distroless). --00000000000094bef806414478d2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, 15 Oct = 2025 at 18:23, Lexi Winter <ivy@freeb= sd.org> wrote:
Lexi Winter wrote in <aO_S4wiMow1vDa-a@amaryllis.le-fay.org>= ;:
> Roger Marquis wrote in <q352p06q-s3ro-r489-s82r-o45n521= 9os65@mx.roble.com>:
> > On Wed, 15 Oct 2025, Lexi Winter wrote:
> > > we will never ship a set for a "minimal jail" beca= use this is entirely
> > > up to the user requirements.=C2=A0 there is *no* package whi= ch is absolutely
> > > required to install a jail, because it depends on what you w= ill install
> > > in the jail.=C2=A0 so it doesn't make sense to ship any = sort of package set
> > > like this.
> >
> > How could it not make sense when 'distroless' Linux conta= iner images are
> > so popular?
>
> i have no idea what a "distroless Linux container image" is.= =C2=A0 could you
> please describe this in more detail?

i asked another committer about this, and they explained that a
"distroless Linux container image" is a container image which onl= y
contains basic system files like /etc/passwd and /etc/resolv.conf,
for use with a statically-linked application, like a Go app.

this is something i would like to support in pkgbase and am actively
working on, but it has nothing to do with sets, at least not right now.

certainly, if we do support this in pkgbase, it will have nothing to do
with the "minimal" set.

does that make sense?

For what it's= worth, the freebsd-static and freebsd-dynamic OCI images which are part of= our release build are inspired by Google's distroless images (https://github.com/= GoogleContainerTools/distroless).
=C2=A0
--00000000000094bef806414478d2-- From nobody Thu Oct 16 14:19:43 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnVTc2gq2z6CYjJ for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 14:20:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from obiwac@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oa1-f49.google.com (mail-oa1-f49.google.com [209.85.160.49]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cnVTZ2KYgz3DRV for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 14:20:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from obiwac@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none); spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of obiwac@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=obiwac@gmail.com Received: by mail-oa1-f49.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3c8f257b7e1so1241008fac.1 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 07:20:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760624396; x=1761229196; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=kMPLmrQPGyzZiJ1K5z1j27juMvxjUYr4H9dLtZ8uMTs=; b=uE/Wtk1jUbNE+slhTm7yG0n+YfuUtRsv2x1VFkhEcqlYGYsD36tRH9r/XH9e99Xkv1 uMhINKtzjKVc3uZSrFEGscHUHL+C4KkRSrzX1Wcpm04+ZfYvW2kb8XyGzIe1tDWJCU7f n5xFC4290E+rk8y5uZDIXbUp69NXgEQ40KEDCRQICLonTlXvZBlFLbv/nHJzR1MJJSin ZVQL8TDcxKUHdd7v7NStLCHpQPVhM2DvCCIHgNFplKKrEkrXatOolewRaH6hH4rZyGSr B3xAlXZlqsfE6k9+VmfdOuBuDItMug4gXAyTRd2WeXqf1D0pk7pxZhH1WATG5XG2CctN 8rdQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCU00ad2Hwb5xrXQjw1sGbtgsyUAFUanrMpY7HxExRJioHLrqAcVvE/9irBX+1vhbdo6mfl8mZqMvEvqlQRYnsE=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw2yjE1fDrBvuGrToWcEEp/EO7emslNKT5Ni+5NRzRVUxzqcYvR LYFgFeRgBXcfR7oEKQbJn/iwvqLabswZiCyBflJGW2m1Yf8wCFl8JJKRBBPwxUVU X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncuP4fACE7TtwjmInlhETclCWkRyrmLTArDlRYeaIIIrpB0/DNAaSLfanmvyotA csqQhheiZ4dyy7dn6XmRI5HxXPG1xr2YKj3x9tGTIMXroHIumDD9Bz3WEaG1yHoURBLyFCSjucu XG5TG6hQS1G528EvF5YnbXNQpHwajKYhvMm5pzROTpD3pkivuJ/AJiHwxqzazM7uRkCVlWu+lwk mQ+qTOA3OzrNUES0mrwudSal4yld8JmbF7pQjn476i+sIfeSk5DMT50La9EBTfQDiCZTZL38yo6 RdudQWqByWEBEOJH0SUvFaEmTvqfQJrC1lHQJ6aqyG1G+Y7Agezz51IQ2ZjEC7Obm2LPuSzsGm1 J6lQwa0qWz918yN8z8qMJceTwnSY7j+EHBsMcnVUe2sNGsPmlGnAtUP2zN8ygAXfytfrTptq6o7 UBU2rtTim2jerWrU6USdNKrVPM89dXef6+w+I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHzPHYurq+y2dBf6Yb95RHOIeHXWMbhZfp8Pb2o26z1khQfluzKnyejVIMe8Ba3uceNS6T6wg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:3308:b0:340:d6f1:4166 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3c98ad2883amr150677fac.9.1760624396214; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 07:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa1-f47.google.com (mail-oa1-f47.google.com. [209.85.160.47]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 586e51a60fabf-3c8c8bb1408sm6460989fac.11.2025.10.16.07.19.56 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Oct 2025 07:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa1-f47.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3c8f257b7e1so1240991fac.1 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 07:19:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUiHDXvuc8n2zLRUVHu27VIXurBG2OLLNm2ERYfXZswM7y+Ih5j9EVdShp+nfNb/qC8blDTHELeON1I/Ou9+So=@freebsd.org X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:53c7:b0:314:faa7:931b with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3c968cabaf1mr1975869fac.25.1760624394744; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 07:19:54 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: obiwac Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 16:19:43 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AS18NWDOxGYcrnkw7-0hRhEAyqucC83bP43ne2-OroqNwjl1LXG8ugAWZHKGI6c Message-ID: Subject: S4 hibernate design document To: freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, FreeBSD CURRENT Cc: kib@freebsd.org, Warner Losh , Poul-Henning Kamp Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.22 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.80)[0.797]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.42)[0.424]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[obiwac@freebsd.org,obiwac@gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,none]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[209.85.160.49:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[obiwac]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.160.49:from,209.85.160.47:received]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[obiwac@freebsd.org,obiwac@gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cnVTZ2KYgz3DRV Hi again! Following up on the previous email announcing the Foundation's intent to add S4 hibernate support to FreeBSD [1], kib@ has started working on a more detailed design document for this: https://hackmd.io/@eJNIw-SNShyq1LSp2azAcw/Bka-kXTpge There are still a couple unsolved bits of the design, so we'd like to gather some more feedback on this document. If you could reply with any feedback within a week (before Oct 23rd) that would be ideal for us! Thanks, Aymeric on behalf of the FreeBSD Foundation [1] https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2025-August/008616.html From nobody Thu Oct 16 15:24:22 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnWw73B9Pz6Cf6R for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 15:24:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pj1-x1029.google.com (mail-pj1-x1029.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cnWw66DdQz3MVB for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 15:24:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pj1-x1029.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-33255011eafso878124a91.1 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 08:24:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1760628276; x=1761233076; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ryatTOCdVVjylCBbSLAtgGhXYM1UoFt8Nos4+bs5Nnw=; b=l+9o0jqtDdvQctAvD8/6i+OQgoyOOT2qMT8rTiw2wgz+tICcHwUq6jAJiCkri5SzlY wIHfdiEYQqMA/Zbf2oA1RGwWwq2JwTwy9OYyVvmGDVgzFD8pfWCo1k+FawKU2Cxwu6ai 3eOFch3jzw3y3OnO2/1MbnrrKdzFwsg4GCRv4aP5/wy/ZAc+AIRRsMM8NzaGsheINYJ3 OdBV75iKXVNJ8M9hiG05kl+e++GtvcvOaWz1QHbwT2S1HQ9OjjbO7V4L6PkWG15uh1c5 qljl3FY34Bc2/jJf4IyZRCWtBAMWY15VVBZ4uyvrPxWUhGVGc+pT8A16MJCPtkKmh27O QObQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760628276; x=1761233076; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ryatTOCdVVjylCBbSLAtgGhXYM1UoFt8Nos4+bs5Nnw=; b=woxGj0nhy/9zM4H7FhrksxDDgv3X5cXbrdNyfLTl2HJ8TFqrTp52mSss62z1OWOq6A s0ohN9QjCudv0PG2pCml5Q3MD5oD37Kpa7mRxGUc3uZvEW2YlnTB8bCdIsAund7jAx9k WF1z2RRzL478UbQAH5qruIOmFydcgFi0NYzTHQVYW6WVifpTjGC2iah6Snem/lmxnMbX 4gPrwaNcvyDvGhTEs3F1xcE7/zzyJN2aOa4TEqnuULsUbpcvFmzj0/LXFtKyPYM5A0Wm JM09nRovGWLH4x8D9jrWyDFryL0Yt+zgnyVsP1WapCk7+o/68k2FJ9N30frAIah8QiJO g1nQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX0lFQigYKQ8EOb056fdftrgz5pwtX1R0juyOH6igHY+beAKz3gL7py4dw3ZReVK8yAxu3B+GTNrQ+3/uc2EvY=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzwKVQueI2csNyV60Ko7wujmdDJtvIFyLkryCFGu7tERf631O9T CkWneQWcpEJv9Ig4rYWKu4Yj2FckOmbB+EatuCt/14XrzF5NHwqBOKEB0EW89QycD6cp9K3iNUp 5SECWPx3r3NPk9pz8+Ou0DoYgDe1TRsLj6vqKi+FAcQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvuXMnaXpwq2KGVU9hHte3SjNAKG29pUR2GtteMeaLvCYYOjSagCU1OJtDNbBT af/KCqQJID7/qmrMVQhc2QFknUtwCbs6967/RiG/D2aaRC/6taFM76qQv9bF45RlduscW5MQQgI gN9MzQfuFOOG0Ej2Pynz1k7tSC0XY//4okMAUlEf9nCviTzg8dPsNYondSE3gfAiQli0/R20Y94 nsxXDrNbLR0D4fSCXOQ9zrNR6m9pRBBOh27AYMSFG40ww4k5NVyVlZX7wBG3WJt0sbyD6o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGILx/h6wnEDhlfTQKvpc6L0u9cGA1kY3pUpAbnOOHdUKEBcIBhcA4nm4I6LT/2b+LXVPjnB9S5rkcbP486sIU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:390f:b0:32e:51dd:46dd with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-33bcf8992e0mr230364a91.16.1760628276114; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 08:24:36 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 09:24:22 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWANu8Mc4c3G2x8Hdt1myPOXnDkwADdUmOaPW3VwdRR2VdTpexdezR3TC7Y Message-ID: Subject: Re: S4 hibernate design document To: obiwac Cc: freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, FreeBSD CURRENT , kib@freebsd.org, Warner Losh , Poul-Henning Kamp Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fad8bf06414836e4" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cnWw66DdQz3MVB --000000000000fad8bf06414836e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 16, 2025 at 8:19=E2=80=AFAM obiwac wrote: > Hi again! > > Following up on the previous email announcing the Foundation's intent to > add S4 > hibernate support to FreeBSD [1], kib@ has started working on a more > detailed > design document for this: > > https://hackmd.io/@eJNIw-SNShyq1LSp2azAcw/Bka-kXTpge > > There are still a couple unsolved bits of the design, so we'd like to > gather > some more feedback on this document. If you could reply with any feedback > within a week (before Oct 23rd) that would be ideal for us! > I've gone ahead and provided my feedback, and asked my questions in the doc= . It looks good, but there's a few booting issues that bit me recently when I did LinuxBoot that I think are relevant, so I've flagged them there. Warner > Thanks, > Aymeric on behalf of the FreeBSD Foundation > > [1] > https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2025-August/008616.htm= l > --000000000000fad8bf06414836e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Oct 16,= 2025 at 8:19=E2=80=AFAM obiwac <o= biwac@freebsd.org> wrote:
Hi again!

Following up on the previous email announcing the Foundation's intent t= o add S4
hibernate support to FreeBSD [1], kib@ has started working on a more detail= ed
design document for this:

https://hackmd.io/@eJNIw-SNShyq1LSp2azAcw/Bka-kX= Tpge

There are still a couple unsolved bits of the design, so we'd like to g= ather
some more feedback on this document. If you could reply with any feedback within a week (before Oct 23rd) that would be ideal for us!

I've gone ahead and provided my feedback, and aske= d my questions in the doc.

It looks good, but ther= e's a few booting issues that bit me recently when I did LinuxBoot that= I think are relevant, so I've flagged them there.

=
Warner
=C2=A0
Thanks,
Aymeric on behalf of the FreeBSD Foundation

[1] https://lists.freebsd.= org/archives/freebsd-current/2025-August/008616.html
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c7def463dd6967524f0562dd9d79235a; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 16:29:14 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: RE: S4 hibernate design document Message-Id: <9E014B66-CE52-45D1-9DA3-3AEF3726CB1C@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 09:29:03 -0700 Cc: Warner Losh To: obiwac , FreeBSD Current X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) References: <9E014B66-CE52-45D1-9DA3-3AEF3726CB1C.ref@yahoo.com> X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.205:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.205:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cnYLn6qSxz3b47 obiwac wrote on Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 14:19:43 UTC : > Hi again! >=20 > Following up on the previous email announcing the Foundation's intent = to add S4 > hibernate support to FreeBSD [1], kib@ has started working on a more = detailed > design document for this: >=20 > https://hackmd.io/@eJNIw-SNShyq1LSp2azAcw/Bka-kXTpge >=20 > There are still a couple unsolved bits of the design, so we'd like to = gather > some more feedback on this document. If you could reply with any = feedback > within a week (before Oct 23rd) that would be ideal for us! >=20 > Thanks, > Aymeric on behalf of the FreeBSD Foundation >=20 > [1] = https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2025-August/008616.html= I'm not sure how it fits with the material referenced above, but I'll note that ACPI references S4 handling in at least the following, including some of the _OSC usage that is tied to USB4 handling . . . 6.2.11. _OSC (Operating System Capabilities) . . . Since platorm context is lost when the platorm enters the S4 sleeping = state, OSPM must re-evaluate _OSC upon wake from S4 to restore the previous platorm = state. This requirement will vary depending on the device specific _OSC = func!onality. . . . 6.2.11.1.2. Evaluation Conditions . . . Upon resume from S4. Platorm firmware will handle context restora!on = when resuming from S1-S3. . . . 6.2.11.3. Operating System Capabilities (_OSC) for USB . . . Note: OSPM must re-invoke _OSC during S4 resume. . . . 6.3. Device Insertion, Removal, and Status Objects . . . For removing devices, ACPI supports both hot removal (system is in the = S0 state), and warm removal (system is in a sleep state: S1-S4). This is done using = the _EJx control methods. Devices that can be ejected include an _EJx control = method for each sleeping state the device supports (a maximum of 2 _EJx objects can = be listed). For example, hot removal devices would supply an _EJ0; warm removal = devices would use one of _EJ1-EJ4. These control methods are used to signal the = hardware when an eject is to occur. The sequence of events for dynamically removing a device goes as = follows: . . . =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Thu Oct 16 16:56:55 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnYyp2xPHz6CnfT for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 16:57:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic308-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic308-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cnYyn07hpz3hQw for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 16:57:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=miv98uZl; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.68.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1760633822; bh=DuA9JnBpbWbCyPCC4eAiS4uRn8SQQaopTUUF4nhLjtI=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=miv98uZlN4d6VZT3m4JGHHaukJbGroHuGKbu55Ve27YJ/sTmRmsu/6nHn6d+RgPyT6FfZ/8AfzFYnEyyYroiRJr/Rc/f7v0cq6ld82Xq+l/SiTEcOKExiFQFEE9U6ZkdlALVcoTUkDYbYmCajrRLbYSSf1oziY6TM24dEfjUffvefo1UMHO1UOdsoYOu0Ni+TeSlMwvNC9t6xBUYcB1t5Rzd/bWnn+4tdc1os9X2QmGYbAOeCvl+2VriY82F2o8/o+Z1XqzKhqk1nq7LZi5MPoeVixLpsTua/G324+5/AGqSeYhYI5iSof5TFAfL8Vdo3qNEWilpLlHZ+Eeyln7YDw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1760633822; bh=x9vjVsTl4gwdUnDMdQR614t/1kt1f8tm7SOIhvYugT6=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:From:Date:To:From:Subject; b=WNEt7sG6RKPlVHQYK25crjrpH8Zn+c7xcEV4li5yJzvWq1oo6Hha6N81EvVJDGgvIxBDjLIi2E1MCrvl41ksQtJhtOW3bUyWzfah7l1adKw7txs3lT3TReM+lyPUEHofVC+uyCR2Vxhk3AWsF5iCsmjdyC/ExcNNA5a7S44Evsu9GHf8qUlYlu/32N6c+D+6M2P2DqcFXD8H/3PPEbZLn+Z2Qcklndw+6GQiLeam6v8R6Ij+NTf0pqjsS2xo3UC0AL1NG/sIH0MH4a707MmPAHrMBHrIT5V62pJuNMs1MocbZW7X66z7katcobx0nMuVhFgzyxI6ItviQ0DVYlRD/A== X-YMail-OSG: 14W2xqIVM1kasKtXELF_BVLGiQEhH7BmSnUtFLwLcvzIQghOphmisY40Uxzigeo NOAmQAaruRIaAaQQl9q5LkcIt2SPVursCJuYhntSHyZTHh.xI_T7BHUuXw64KPvbc3PwhtP_xkcf BJSfIH1k1Z_RcC3cyDAXWbEVZga2isIjSEzHRkA89NpZsUvNl1mk1X7fsUysZWAJ7a13_xGBD3CO swgnO.9WDT6WeyZdO1.f_Yo.ur0i5d8vSgkG8ZeH5RWZX5i0LgN.gKlCYadyW90Bj0tN69zQ0TXY Y9JZXl69cA4c.kbZuYtXpH6lCekZ9ADZ9q9lvYezb4zKEM7Uo.VNM4KVlOPdmrtsOtR1kU3ztycC hE72TpEvYF3e0E.SiLwIQrnN0.lREN9fV6qwRQyVOI422DtBMEqBYppYBY5pxed1lXcrIK3L_yNM uoHc6Kw.kuqwbWALgzobHEdHBwI_PbcubbQ_KPTHM9T8kgGl7mvqMLye3OYNZFmtdpD_S8ImMWXJ m2UUUHdXUdk5iVrwXqw0m9up5fVmJdYfIIV5ERL05u_Xwj_SRRvGhdL6NloUenkGi1Cps7A2Dofe 5VW.hL4I.yAfb4PMKNc22KL7QpHVUBdPCnxE3Co5ce9ueeXfmws2HG3C0Li79Q5ZvDUpcGPDtIsU Sc1p6AE7KohPB7b75ima5BFcH6g4Pup3wne6OamQwFrrESOp7GqRxIMqkB2mCV9ZyP7F5poVQCgE uHh2wuWmd0.E8y6KspWrmO2utlFCnW57o2TlTq3J3nlJ4D7qrfsu_ptzvBqZnHYnBY.Ftzm3fT4Z TqaAH8Zs6UFSyLqPXmUpeLikhRUbQvQgayTEtm6UTZH5haVpfyG0OP29lv77of45ObbK_x0CKHHz htaUc0ymtfdzTbw6f4PTfZQUxlrhhHuMOhKIWnN8AUf3xDHCK6qw.3F6lLhUrvpnHThU6emQlSiK PztPqh1Y3gmQCdsJb0KeLCwis1uEYPAgVxz6O5hn6Sax8fayF7DtwMhL5NXUOROrmmiwst2QY2WG PpjeU__4btX2Q_QibEqNIo5Rf5M22KBpYV4EjcKV3lFHI935Jt5he7a.TCl56is_4cuGbrcl17aV 9B0pOhlEXPvu9kX4iDLXvZ9vyRqtKZ6aqFANfLebXavhmYccCr7crHns.PeOppSf1oafKOsccZWo WUMH4h1sEHpFLZ6u1vMmq.Mvnlad3G__ZrRL3knOdx3LiWI9tp5_KQWGyNGa34eHSSbNqz_07vla y_NtD3nHV7QR1doO1qFXEHDF6d39b1IV_dDAVbWKUCXiN8WhAZ5OlOxUcBHjuK6Hg7MClKnT5FHr 0ROO5vasOG537AhT.bwIxx7LpUEVsiiSc3vPsZRsPbAOTuwUbRFhzyNWcXBZj_U3kMlSW2j0OE5n QEYOiSPPfh5iGoZjC_sDtOuGtIf.2ua03QvB83g4ioKtvzFe0SVPqHcnPYc4x_1FsCXAYTN1.QGp priHFc.j10B4J.wAHbQeRIpZ2ekxL_RcLuXduojgh1Fz9vtiNfu2pAS4G5epvFe_w7n8fE28kgU2 .mMjZ62R_0K0x8oneI441oZCtN3cy3Fc.Fu0KNiB2_gMKN7mk82sSOYJplwVQ.0VQb1Y63ojU4Lg Yz_p9m1A.0keGaTT18GKmOLEBDupakAwukp5FliQJagQXonHzSlAIWpj5exg6d03o6wjmaIDr0LS XDbW2PlhQd7Q1MWfu7uU75cBHV2_Jr_6YybzDoW4RiE62NdQjSk7bz2jrWJiD5wehHWXURGN5XIa 3rhw7Nw5tvPHs77g_GfJpEH.O0RxmgTwXaDZIiRSCYY5.uJoecyWHSt4o1Esj9jBJgy9IYcdGuez vCIJpQesTuSVmO3XofSIKdsFHL3uFo8a4uVS2GHwNnfVhzFR6_b1Y3F9VavHz0qlHfrxwcqQFgVE KeHfKMtK1thOPrqSk7gl1jcftGCXwb3CQ8lO4o0dqm8U2HmB6AYkSIyHc4l0by1Jw6TjbVeS1rlR _PUS8fcqo_dzGHtBa5JB8ZdXqUQ4F96dweJCHWRR38aMInliMxZY9ZzFRIZ46c2AjpSzyJGX1cOd ZT8zZ2LRPZzRJZIA_37rXJc8.KjAQuHcMaI2xY9OdQoFt02XMVljc7ozmRTJ_A6fqY5uWS7rmuiq psnl2xuY0p2YSSFU3P5k1Zv4Lf95gyFjOeRpYiLRCBLjpOOpKDX0CDNgJvc_CRS0B6RSANJr.QGc 6qccfZcPvBSmBwF8ZlYhytNvH1T4PWHLJg6ivln6ARR5dhi5v5nFL3inNlts_7Q1Nei4HgELRY5J ZbcypuKXdHA-- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: f3e92e1b-4e1b-4949-a01b-97b5f6978c78 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 16:57:02 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-6c5b94f9b-t4p94 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID fb85ee7c58bb3405c1b305cdec09181e; Thu, 16 Oct 2025 16:56:58 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: Re: S4 hibernate design document [corrections] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <9E014B66-CE52-45D1-9DA3-3AEF3726CB1C@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 09:56:55 -0700 Cc: Warner Losh Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <76B06FB8-67A1-41B9-99E4-4CE79EB6C9B0@yahoo.com> References: <9E014B66-CE52-45D1-9DA3-3AEF3726CB1C@yahoo.com> To: obiwac , FreeBSD Current X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.998]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.68.31:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.68.31:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cnYyn07hpz3hQw [Fixing missing text and some odd copy/paste results.] On Oct 16, 2025, at 09:29, Mark Millard wrote: > obiwac wrote on > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2025 14:19:43 UTC : >=20 >> Hi again! >>=20 >> Following up on the previous email announcing the Foundation's intent = to add S4 >> hibernate support to FreeBSD [1], kib@ has started working on a more = detailed >> design document for this: >>=20 >> https://hackmd.io/@eJNIw-SNShyq1LSp2azAcw/Bka-kXTpge >>=20 >> There are still a couple unsolved bits of the design, so we'd like to = gather >> some more feedback on this document. If you could reply with any = feedback >> within a week (before Oct 23rd) that would be ideal for us! >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Aymeric on behalf of the FreeBSD Foundation >>=20 >> [1] = https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current/2025-August/008616.html= >=20 > I'm not sure how it fits with the material referenced above, but I'll > note that ACPI references S4 handling in at least the following, > including some of the _OSC usage that is tied to USB4 handling . . . >=20 >=20 > 6.2.11. _OSC (Operating System Capabilities) >=20 > . . . >=20 > Since platform context is lost when the platform enters the S4 = sleeping state, OSPM > must re-evaluate _OSC upon wake from S4 to restore the previous = platform state. > This requirement will vary depending on the device specific _OSC = functionality. [I had originally noticed that what should have been "platform" was odd by being 'pla"orm' but managed to not type the "f" in the "tf" correction text each time.] [The "ti" in "functionality" had been a "!".] > . . . >=20 > 6.2.11.1.2. Evaluation Conditions I should have quoted here: QUOTE The OS must evaluate _OSC under the following conditions: END QUOTE > . . . >=20 > Upon resume from S4. Platform firmware will handle context restoration = when > resuming from S1-S3. [I had originally noticed that what should have been "platform" was odd by being 'pla"orm' but managed to not type the "f" in the "tf" correction text each time.] [The "ti" in "restoration" had been a "!".] >=20 > . . . >=20 > 6.2.11.3. Operating System Capabilities (_OSC) for USB >=20 > . . . >=20 > Note: OSPM must re-invoke _OSC during S4 resume. >=20 > . . . >=20 > 6.3. Device Insertion, Removal, and Status Objects >=20 > . . . >=20 > For removing devices, ACPI supports both hot removal (system is in the = S0 state), > and warm removal (system is in a sleep state: S1-S4). This is done = using the _EJx > control methods. Devices that can be ejected include an _EJx control = method for > each sleeping state the device supports (a maximum of 2 _EJx objects = can be listed). > For example, hot removal devices would supply an _EJ0; warm removal = devices > would use one of _EJ1-EJ4. These control methods are used to signal = the hardware > when an eject is to occur. >=20 > The sequence of events for dynamically removing a device goes as = follows: >=20 > . . . >=20 =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Fri Oct 17 06:06:13 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnvTV3HGnz6ChLx; Fri, 17 Oct 2025 06:06:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cnvTV2kjbz3VP5; Fri, 17 Oct 2025 06:06:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760681182; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jjzGPVTnyBKYRQRUVoiBzfZd30y9KAUeW8dcnikg4NY=; b=LRQfCI4Wgt6PAGB72/6UgccgeW31KBwXiBp4NSfz2tZwnd7YOWTlbOOawvfmggVQjwDFqm Ajy6gVLejHhOjEGe/75RnoJI2Hlm+0RaPRIh/dyE7rWY3/ancrURXIJF4Y4Yxs5aNhK+ei 1CvgG0bjk4dROsaX8jucOTDqkXkDC6yjap5F1nvY9bXqvVHFS7AnOWTOB/1yIbsqIMsDib 8rRcwOxkRD8EWslDHTycfQUugjZGOvJJ4aOrQ4z62uDy97I+30t9+/6iSHNFWMLp3FPuFN njCAB8qlR2CGYZPwjQHVh6lV6+sLhXVPqZ1GnicctiGad7JbnPlf4xIV8q8s6g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1760681182; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jjzGPVTnyBKYRQRUVoiBzfZd30y9KAUeW8dcnikg4NY=; b=betOdcHOC3Z46r+XYBT64ELaclOyRD+ge8eDuP2I69UUlRMhjO5wUYh/uL4NJFwDc8ksMF CkPQoIh8zzwB6iyTWCxRAOKPHt0sMVICcooL957VCRilnp+a1ZUNJvQO8A1ULJCkzICEqc 6dkRDnKEDmnTdwYNSxSnwqS85pdTBAB3aRFDG00+nyyQetm5h1+8i4OrAGvfEaOmHKFu9R M50hUu78uIsUt41EkTdA9pKXM1f/RjxwsFckCBZdnRcmYUgS2i4KUtMyzN0lNh10f/iS8z kirTRSMFSIpwIV637BCbvHenM4T/fXIPfqbgdA3/7O5gARBNBG5GsgQnuAsBhg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1760681182; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=J6eqXj7W4eHqG+qxbH8t49VmzI9MSPftKMOCXQSq5Uwvj5dLgLAV0cEn0AFplyrWHIfzq1 ObZ4OqIc7OLxnidCl1oPm9RM+GXlXECfzYAi078faYlUr+q7+l9d6xBG/zwc7bIxzcqguf g4ehltVHQXBp6YQgu0xNrovnhoTiC2pAJFuqS3ZojCNTT4ZCTo03kkOjNpBuRcPbdqDP+H OqIFqPXKijZGmO/aLJ0MlSvbmvlVKDxvbcoweciiJc++QRxeVeTeWBM5CE9SC0Zn/774VP wTyvofwPbmlOXu274q1ksmyxRLQj4navWhw+wneggGUqpcH0VEr4HlTlEBE0Bg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cnvTT5rMFz5Mt; Fri, 17 Oct 2025 06:06:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2025 07:06:13 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: Chris Cc: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Chris , Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="z8A0Ujibr1GpqVY4" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com> --z8A0Ujibr1GpqVY4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Chris wrote in <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com>: > On 2025-10-15 05:16, Lexi Winter wrote: > > so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should probably > > add it to minimal-jail. > IMHO isn't the HOST responsible for routing? Doesn't that make dhclient > and friends somewhat unusual (not average jail(8) setup?). no, in VNET jails the jail does routing itself, including IP address assignment. while i personally prefer to do this statically, i believe it's fairly common to use DHCP (for IPv4) or SLAAC (for IPv6) to handle this automatically, especially in mass-hosting setups. since dhclient is fairly small (150kB) and DHCP is something people typically expect to "just work", i am leaning on the side of putting this into minimal-jail unless anyone has a strong objection. --z8A0Ujibr1GpqVY4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaPHc1QAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YBVEAP0QoFw8WEicvpaaDVc5S2qQxK9r4bJTnmfElNo2rAdwKgD8Ctftytn2y+Kg IvTkDXo5q6O4DnQkUKyYuZ5/WVBzlw0= =vH5v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --z8A0Ujibr1GpqVY4-- From nobody Fri Oct 17 07:44:11 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnxfY3z4Jz6CqGJ; Fri, 17 Oct 2025 07:44:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cnxfX6s1Cz3ks1; Fri, 17 Oct 2025 07:44:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=ultimatedns.net header.s=mx99 header.b=lAAFmazV; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of bsd-lists@bsdforge.com designates 24.113.41.81 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 59H7iBOE033173; Fri, 17 Oct 2025 00:44:20 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ultimatedns.net; s=mx99; t=1760687060; x=1760687660; r=y; bh=zDpmyC39WwpW0fdG2g8pvfBc4AuulW8vFQwS+AvNFPA=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=lAAFmazV7iEIaBFHQUJpyTPsC6a3cLz9rH+uVg2uqlE4eyOjO24hSWWk00WZzu0jj X+wxSDkrBHll+3DaYKApGrSYaqHGy63RhSs524yOZXGRCj4dNYqvll593dgmuP9Nk8 kZoPIXH7/z9Sw7c6Gh+gqKcGsPpLjmTNpVl422oY+LkvUD7CmB3X3d/MWQyHwK3pCZ wJq4dmv8ZygSs3+9MSd9tQ0j+DbYNq3maeIj97qgyRVm0PueUTYWSzwtuObl+FgGvr NmIz80xPcAMwWh2YbFhpQ8pjv6AUp52t1hNzVtFtMKIVqXVO4B8B7zSqRVH9L3dAIe CA+MQFdlbU/wQ== List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2025 00:44:11 -0700 From: Chris To: Ronald Klop , current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? In-Reply-To: References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_cea13dfe47afd2134e8f7236ba15f443" X-Spamd-Bar: ++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.00 / 15.00]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[ultimatedns.net:s=mx99]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; MIME_UNKNOWN(0.10)[application/pgp-keys]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[pkgbase@freebsd.org,current@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ultimatedns.net:-]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=multimap; Matched map: local_wl_ip X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cnxfX6s1Cz3ks1 --=_cea13dfe47afd2134e8f7236ba15f443 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2025-10-16 23:06, Lexi Winter wrote: > Chris wrote in <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com>: >> On 2025-10-15 05:16, Lexi Winter wrote: >> > so if dhclient use in jails is widespread, we should probably >> > add it to minimal-jail. >> IMHO isn't the HOST responsible for routing? Doesn't that make dhclient >> and friends somewhat unusual (not average jail(8) setup?). > > no, in VNET jails the jail does routing itself, including IP address > assignment. while i personally prefer to do this statically, i believe > it's fairly common to use DHCP (for IPv4) or SLAAC (for IPv6) to handle > this automatically, especially in mass-hosting setups. > > since dhclient is fairly small (150kB) and DHCP is something people > typically expect to "just work", i am leaning on the side of putting > this into minimal-jail unless anyone has a strong objection. No objection here. Just didn't seem like a very common jail need from my perspective. But now that you mention it. I can easily see it's value. Thanks, Lexi. -- There is no such place as the internet --=_cea13dfe47afd2134e8f7236ba15f443 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_cea13dfe47afd2134e8f7236ba15f443-- From nobody Fri Oct 17 07:53:47 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cnxsc2KwBz6CrvJ; 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mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from amaryllis.le-fay.org (amaryllis.le-fay.org [IPv6:2a00:1098:6b:400::9]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: ivy/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4cnxsb5t42z6xd; Fri, 17 Oct 2025 07:53:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ivy@freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2025 08:53:47 +0100 From: Lexi Winter To: current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: should FreeBSD-dhclient depend on FreeBSD-resolvconf? Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: current@freebsd.org, pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <324231230.147694.1760527890049@localhost> <1dab51ef73837d98d5b5c36ef1e39118@bsdforge.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="eG6+cWA37HnZqNfJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: --eG6+cWA37HnZqNfJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Lexi Winter wrote in : > since dhclient is fairly small (150kB) and DHCP is something people > typically expect to "just work", i am leaning on the side of putting > this into minimal-jail unless anyone has a strong objection. https://reviews.freebsd.org/D53154 --eG6+cWA37HnZqNfJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQSyjTg96lp3RifySyn1nT63mIK/YAUCaPH2BwAKCRD1nT63mIK/ YG0YAP47Mh0sbyqOKCswKiW8CBvrSgzBoOaznLyr3vzKtFd5AAEA03iRtc3Jc99A djIibprCq1wOj+B4H8JKpPAevdxNvgI= =UWXZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --eG6+cWA37HnZqNfJ-- From nobody Sat Oct 18 19:51:18 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cpskd6HLDz6CfQ2 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2025 19:51:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from fc.opsec.eu (fc.opsec.eu [IPv6:2001:14f8:200:4::4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cpskc3KFtz3xns for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2025 19:51:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:14f8:200:4::4 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of pi@freebsd.org) smtp.mailfrom=pi@freebsd.org Received: from pi (uid 104) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) id 2020a by fc.opsec.eu (DragonFly Mail Agent v0.13+ on fc.opsec.eu); Sat, 18 Oct 2025 21:51:18 +0200 Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 21:51:18 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: current@freebsd.org Subject: crash while building ports using poudriere Message-ID: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Spamd-Bar: + X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.12 / 15.00]; VIOLATED_DIRECT_SPF(3.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.68)[-0.680]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pi]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all:c]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cpskc3KFtz3xns Hi! https://people.freebsd.org/~pi/20251018-textdump.tar has a textdump from a crash of amd64 16.0-CURRENT, main-n281226-681295892924 /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_page.c:3753: _vm_page_pqstate_commit_requeue: Bad link elm 0xfffffe0078c43dc0 next->prev != elm -- pi@FreeBSD.org +49 171 3101372 Now what ? From nobody Sat Oct 18 22:30:31 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cpxGp17tTz6CsR6; Sat, 18 Oct 2025 22:30:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo49.interia.pl (smtpo49.interia.pl [217.74.67.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cpxGn2Z0bz3Lw0; Sat, 18 Oct 2025 22:30:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b="OLl5Xz/9"; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 00:30:31 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: pkg(8) Repos To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.8 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1760826634; bh=QeVofh5YBXDoePo2+lsqt92YHhGPDbFed4mPM17uyOU=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=OLl5Xz/9cQeDHyzK0a41H0M4bvCxhldxvjsgJsfb4jXg8F4KDdVwepCSNfr7l7afR VCWlYHeAt/4dBBIisVRTC0C2//JuIB1TvAlJmbSfvfupa5A39eSdAEgmwJjboBj8V8 ksKTbnEP50+VahdMnkrGTWMHB1J0tDOdYQt682XI= X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.03 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.53)[-0.531]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[217.74.67.49:from]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cpxGn2Z0bz3Lw0 Hi. I just checked one interesting thing - here are the facts - on the 15.0-BETA1 (I doubt its different on BETA2). The 'third party' packages pkg(8) repos config is in the _Base System_ /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf file. root@pkgbase:~ # grep '^[^#]' /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf FreeBSD-ports: { url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/quarterly", mirror_type: "srv", signature_type: "fingerprints", fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", enabled: yes } FreeBSD-ports-kmods: { url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/kmods_quarterly_${VERSION_MINOR}", mirror_type: "srv", signature_type: "fingerprints", fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", enabled: yes } The _Base System_ packages pkg(8) repos config is in the 'third party' /usr/local/etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf file. root@pkgbase:~ # grep '^[^#]' /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD-base.conf FreeBSD-base: { url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_latest", mirror_type: "srv", signature_type: "fingerprints", fingerprints: "/usr/share/keys/pkg", enabled: yes } This is the DEFAULT setup just after the bsdinstall(8) installation. I mean .. where is the LOGIC in that? Its EXACTLY the opposite as it should be ... From nobody Sun Oct 19 07:31:40 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cq9Gs1lY3z6ChB6 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 07:31:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Received: from fc.opsec.eu (fc.opsec.eu [IPv6:2001:14f8:200:4::4]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cq9Gq3kZDz3fN1 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 07:31:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none); spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 2001:14f8:200:4::4 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of pi@freebsd.org) smtp.mailfrom=pi@freebsd.org Received: from pi (uid 104) (envelope-from pi@freebsd.org) id 20f08 by fc.opsec.eu (DragonFly Mail Agent v0.13+ on fc.opsec.eu); Sun, 19 Oct 2025 09:31:40 +0200 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 09:31:40 +0200 From: Kurt Jaeger To: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: crash while building ports using poudriere Message-ID: References: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.80 / 15.00]; VIOLATED_DIRECT_SPF(3.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12502, ipnet:2001:14f8::/32, country:DE]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[pi]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all:c]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[current@freebsd.org]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cq9Gq3kZDz3fN1 Hi! > https://people.freebsd.org/~pi/20251018-textdump.tar > > has a textdump from a crash of amd64 16.0-CURRENT, main-n281226-681295892924 > > /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_page.c:3753: _vm_page_pqstate_commit_requeue: Bad link elm 0xfffffe0078c43dc0 next->prev != elm Another one: https://people.freebsd.org/~pi/20251019-textdump.tar -- pi@FreeBSD.org +49 171 3101372 Now what ? From nobody Sun Oct 19 09:53:17 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cqDQW2Tq3z6CtR5; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 09:53:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cqDQV1pXrz3xF8; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 09:53:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b="gp/qQfOK"; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.69 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 11:53:17 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: lib32 not installed - but required when update To: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.8 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1760867600; bh=TD5lackfbTTwNR9sluJ+qVpd6p6VSycv3Qb8tIWa2dI=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=gp/qQfOKddNlQbor/HvhqcYl3Rs++Es1sCLMGMPH6Ut6eNMiZALBfR3TDn4Iu8yBJ 7XmKibY8O5I1HpiVVtJzjEA5scFZF4i5W3y97Uy98qX1xkQmmHePIOE5UepLZHLGpV TnxJND77UvsenONMPnnIQqFoFOCL1kn+OR9bpZns= X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.18 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.973]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.706]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(-0.10)[217.74.67.69:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cqDQV1pXrz3xF8 Hi. 1. I installed FreeBSD 15.0-BETA1 with packages from ISO with only 'base' selected. No 'lib32' installed. 2. Then modified 'url' in /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD-base.conf file: - url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_latest", + url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_release_${VERSION_MINOR}", 3. Then wanted to update 'vi' package: root@pkgbase:~ # pkg install FreeBSD-vi Updating FreeBSD-ports repository catalogue... FreeBSD-ports repository is up to date. Updating FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository catalogue... FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository is up to date. Updating FreeBSD-base repository catalogue... FreeBSD-base repository is up to date. All repositories are up to date. The following 2 package(s) will be affected (of 0 checked): New packages to be INSTALLED: FreeBSD-clibs-lib32: 15.0.b1.20251012072228 [FreeBSD-base] Installed packages to be UPGRADED: FreeBSD-vi: 15.0.b1.20251011075131 -> 15.0.b1.20251012072228 [FreeBSD-base] Number of packages to be installed: 1 Number of packages to be upgraded: 1 The process will require 4 MiB more space. 2 MiB to be downloaded. Proceed with this action? [y/N]: Why 'lib32' dependency is pulled in/required when I do not have anything 'lib32' related installed? Regards, vermaden From nobody Sun Oct 19 10:07:22 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cqDks4d4Sz6Cvds; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 10:07:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cqDkr5NN2z420q; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 10:07:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b=Dequ69Qj; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 12:07:22 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: lib32 not installed - but required when update To: "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.8 Message-Id: List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1760868444; bh=T3vTZb8jCMaktt28MeblrGADvvEYWyVe0C+3pqEHKLk=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Dequ69QjbIKuv7iubjeNyXmUUEoAeHyzWYX/S5gGsYpUw+vBM22NHIuO2sXWacnZl 2K7krMo13SssSIK1bnodAm0SG7OMwaWMFxgqHBAKdlJx+h3GYj6KljUPEDGS+f9Oaj FYMNgvJ3IZMy4pBQU2dq8q6NuAma+lLesTzyHWFA= X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.49 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.975]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.711]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_EXCELLENT(-0.40)[217.74.67.75:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cqDkr5NN2z420q More interesting. After 'vi' update and after that 'lib32' is installed ... you can just remove it ... and it has no deps ... root@pkgbase:~ # pkg info | grep lib32 FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228 Core runtime libraries (32-bit libraries) root@pkgbase:~ # pkg delete FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228 Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) Deinstallation has been requested for the following 1 packages (of 0 packages in the universe): Installed packages to be REMOVED: FreeBSD-clibs-lib32: 15.0.b1.20251012072228 Number of packages to be removed: 1 The operation will free 4 MiB. Proceed with deinstalling packages? [y/N]: y [1/1] Deinstalling FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228... [1/1] Deleting files for FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228: 100% Regards, vermaden Temat: lib32 not installed - but required when update Data: 2025-10-19 11:54 Nadawca: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl> Adresat: freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org; freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org; >> Hi. > > 1. I installed FreeBSD 15.0-BETA1 with packages from ISO with only 'base' selected. No 'lib32' installed. > > 2. Then modified 'url' in /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD-base.conf file: > > - url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_latest", > + url: "pkg+https://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/base_release_${VERSION_MINOR}", > > 3. Then wanted to update 'vi' package: > > root@pkgbase:~ # pkg install FreeBSD-vi > Updating FreeBSD-ports repository catalogue... > FreeBSD-ports repository is up to date. > Updating FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository catalogue... > FreeBSD-ports-kmods repository is up to date. > Updating FreeBSD-base repository catalogue... > FreeBSD-base repository is up to date. > All repositories are up to date. > The following 2 package(s) will be affected (of 0 checked): > > New packages to be INSTALLED: > FreeBSD-clibs-lib32: 15.0.b1.20251012072228 [FreeBSD-base] > > Installed packages to be UPGRADED: > FreeBSD-vi: 15.0.b1.20251011075131 -> 15.0.b1.20251012072228[FreeBSD-base] > > Number of packages to be installed: 1 > Number of packages to be upgraded: 1 > > The process will require 4 MiB more space. > 2 MiB to be downloaded. > > Proceed with this action? [y/N]: > > > > Why 'lib32' dependency is pulled in/required when I do not have anything 'lib32' related installed? > > > > Regards, > vermaden From nobody Sun Oct 19 12:56:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cqJVP1Ft9z6D8BF for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 12:57:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from void@f-m.fm) Received: from fhigh-b1-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b1-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.152]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cqJVN1FGwz3L0R for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 12:57:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from void@f-m.fm) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=f-m.fm header.s=fm2 header.b=ahjKbJCM; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=RXpAPFAg; 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Sun, 19 Oct 2025 08:56:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 13:56:56 +0100 From: void To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: libutil.so.9 not found (was: HEADS-UP: pkgbase pkg upgrade breaks systems Re: after updating to latest, pkg base segfaults and leaves me unbootable) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <582d802f-da93-415c-9dee-1f1f1beb1830@smeets.xyz> <5DCB0B5E-3582-4877-A1B8-894C4EA68F13@gushi.org> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.84 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.84)[-0.839]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[f-m.fm,none]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_EXCELLENT(-0.40)[202.12.124.152:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[f-m.fm:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:202.12.124.128/27]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[202.12.124.152:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[f-m.fm]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[f-m.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:202.12.124.0/24, country:AU]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[f-m.fm]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cqJVN1FGwz3L0R Possibly linked issue to this: On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 07:34:46AM +0100, Graham Perrin wrote: > >>ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libutil.so.9" not found, required by "pkg" On a system that had been source upgraded from stable/15-n280668-998dd4a11a2b 1500500 1500500 amd64 to stable/15-n280740-317a5dd0288e 1500500 1500500 amd64 reboot and then cd /usr/src && git pull --ff-only (it updates) then: # make -j10 buildworld && make -j10 kernel --- buildworld --- make[1]: /usr/src/Makefile.inc1:362: SYSTEM_COMPILER: Determined that CC=/usr/local/bin/ccache cc matches the source tree. Not bootstrapping a cross-compiler. make[1]: /usr/src/Makefile.inc1:367: SYSTEM_LINKER: Determined that LD=ld matches the source tree. Not bootstrapping a cross-linker. -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> World build started on Sun Oct 19 13:52:47 BST 2025 -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Deleting stale files in build tree... ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libutil.so.9" not found, required by "env" 0.00 real 0.00 user 0.00 sys *** [_cleanworldtmp] Error code 1 -- From nobody Sun Oct 19 17:33:15 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cqQdq0lTHz6DVKp for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 17:33:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Received: from smtp6.goneo.de (smtp6.goneo.de [85.220.129.31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cqQdp1FVTz3q9w for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 17:33:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@walstatt-de.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=walstatt-de.de header.s=DKIM001 header.b=ZSe5KLs2; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@walstatt-de.de designates 85.220.129.31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@walstatt-de.de Received: from hub1.goneo.de (hub1.goneo.de [85.220.129.52]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp6.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D45C1240A87 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 19:33:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hub1.goneo.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub1.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DF8A24003E for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 19:33:45 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=walstatt-de.de; s=DKIM001; t=1760895225; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=NMPCMq2kMFr2KVbHquXC5vmutbcXX5hx2W2OJNf4wNE=; b=ZSe5KLs2y4xdAlAoyvch40AMJUgObi6SKaeP5qNDESsLbiajX/h0XtUQEfDJTfvnDvFJro lPMwm6wFxWHc7ybbzjxUAnzwSdugSZmeFzErTAsW4UfhK/1GtLWSfB4BxoW+MMZuyC6mPd 1KYTefrpMv1IhOz32ZPJ+QiAE1hKHqFgqaaLYjAppll+zx6o8aHwE6YROMZe/D0WfEMBdX mBBzQnHZGWLtrCYL9QPC1nv0+Mor/RMc4UoqiFRQzHGUp9yrFkyIE/UTl3O/XMQbyxSiIx npMyhjtx6txXhJXOcsK4V+iMt9FwQ0rRmhjv5h0OheVPF+CBh/mvlcqP3hGHfA== Received: from thor.sb211.local (dynamic-2a02-3100-1946-e902-5bbd-45f4-8759-d30e.310.pool.telefonica.de [IPv6:2a02:3100:1946:e902:5bbd:45f4:8759:d30e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (prime256v1) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by hub1.goneo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56ED1240206 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 19:33:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 19:33:15 +0200 From: A FreeBSD User To: FreeBSD CURRENT Subject: Inverted mouse wheel since refurbishment of moused? Message-ID: <20251019193257.4e608978@thor.sb211.local> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd15.0) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/ypd56TwnmGcD0G0fQ2y6rdb"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Rspamd-UID: accdbf X-Rspamd-UID: bc9414 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.69 / 15.00]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[walstatt-de.de:s=DKIM001]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:85.220.129.0/25]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[85.220.129.31:from]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25394, ipnet:85.220.128.0/17, country:DE]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[walstatt-de.de]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[walstatt-de.de:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cqQdp1FVTz3q9w --Sig_/ypd56TwnmGcD0G0fQ2y6rdb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A while ago /usr/sbin/moused has seen some refurbishment. Since then in X11= the mousewheel is inverted. I'm on CURRENT and 15-STABLE. Mouse is right hand. Moving the whe= el "away" was supposed to scroll DOWN towards the last entry (i.e. within an xterm), movi= ng (or rotating, if you like) the wheel towards me was supposed to scroll UPWARD towards histor= ical entries. Up to the time of this inversion there was no difference between Microsofts handl= ing of the mousewheel. Now, switching between M$ Windows and my lab's FBSD installatio= n is a pain, my limited brains capacity doens't compute the inversion of the axis very fast= . Since I do not use fancy things on how to configure the mouse in Windows I suppose its the= standard how I use the mouse (I use Windows for department's Email, just that), in FreeBSD= 's X11 I used for years now either no extra config or =20 Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7". First guess was to shuffle "4 5 6 7", but whatever the order of the numbers= is, it has no effect. What triggers this inversion and how to restore the "legacy" or, more suit= able, the traditional way? Thanks in advance, Oliver --=20 A FreeBSD user --Sig_/ypd56TwnmGcD0G0fQ2y6rdb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRQheDybVktG5eW/1Kxzvs8OqokrwUCaPUg9gAKCRCxzvs8Oqok r7r7AQDFkGWZymnyKDgN/7lamNRz0BeV3zWTiK/ZLGmRCF4I9gEAwNrZ7wRqIKSu HpV8MVXq1xGbwhgBuHxfNTj4E8wO3wU= =qxhl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/ypd56TwnmGcD0G0fQ2y6rdb-- From nobody Sun Oct 19 18:34:21 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cqRzq3hS8z6DZ3R; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 18:34:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=sV9g=44=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cqRzp5M4Gz44My; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 18:34:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=sV9g=44=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB87D7884; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 20:34:22 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1760898862; bh=V6qQe+xeg6VHohxLj9QNoervjFqsJ+IEO5JzqLfFXzM=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=Ocvftu04IOGUgYFSKCnrk/pe2acYE9Ruag/cjRgbMgkvGzcO9fSzN7B7H2nPgQ8+1 HX87CqaP2aQPqWHkQSKjxP1Shpf0/3yjwg9L9TEi7AVXZGTAUrvSKcd404eG3F0YPj MpUqQqGBbYVFbNMlgVfUJMWgkzLu3t28ivV8hVZw= Received: from [192.168.145.49] (ip-89-177-27-225.bb.vodafone.cz [89.177.27.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ADE69D7896; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 20:34:21 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1760898861; bh=V6qQe+xeg6VHohxLj9QNoervjFqsJ+IEO5JzqLfFXzM=; h=Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=rM0+nFnW/8Er15UQUr+3oMiVE34itDpMSePuhgYbCQ6jVQ10CrpcOMRHHKLV3xXA/ PBq0bjhqW8sPbwL28hUS5RoQYaicfHeIOoSHvi2FfhWoC4tGvnbNhPZX+IgvLThi5N hfGhD765hY3EZdWl7wRo2sJs48i6KLDa/vknSNCY= Message-ID: <0ac30a34-c2cc-47ac-b57d-5a504c2bde92@quip.cz> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 20:34:21 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: lib32 not installed - but required when update To: vermaden , "freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" References: Content-Language: en-US From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42000, ipnet:94.124.104.0/21, country:CZ] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cqRzp5M4Gz44My On 19/10/2025 12:07, vermaden wrote: > More interesting. > > After 'vi' update and after that 'lib32' is installed ... you can just remove it ... and it has no deps ... This is exactly something that I am seeing with normal 3rd party packages (not base packages) for a very very long time - like many years) More on my desktop where I have about 1500 packages installed, but sometime on headless servers with about 200 packages. Some unrelated packages are being installed as "required dependency" but can be deinstalled by "pkg autoremove" right after the "pkg upgrade". I am really scared of the moving to pkg base with all these long standing issues and many new issues like removing all packages even with to loader required to be able to use BE. I think it is not mature enough (after all these years) Kind regards Miroslav Lachman > root@pkgbase:~ # pkg info | grep lib32 > FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228 Core runtime libraries (32-bit libraries) > > root@pkgbase:~ # pkg delete FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228 > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Cannot solve problem using SAT solver, trying another plan > Checking integrity... done (0 conflicting) > Deinstallation has been requested for the following 1 packages (of 0 packages in the universe): > > Installed packages to be REMOVED: > FreeBSD-clibs-lib32: 15.0.b1.20251012072228 > > Number of packages to be removed: 1 > > The operation will free 4 MiB. > > Proceed with deinstalling packages? [y/N]: y > [1/1] Deinstalling FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228... > [1/1] Deleting files for FreeBSD-clibs-lib32-15.0.b1.20251012072228: 100% > > > > Regards, > vermaden > From nobody Sun Oct 19 21:33:14 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cqWxN5Mcmz6CZpj for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 21:32:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: from www.zefox.net (www.zefox.net [50.1.20.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "pelorus.zefox.org", Issuer "pelorus.zefox.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cqWxN26l2z3T1y for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 21:32:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from www.zefox.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 59JLXEem016957 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 19 Oct 2025 14:33:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd@www.zefox.net) Received: (from fbsd@localhost) by www.zefox.net (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) id 59JLXE1P016956; Sun, 19 Oct 2025 14:33:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from fbsd) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2025 14:33:14 -0700 From: bob prohaska To: A FreeBSD User Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT , bob prohaska Subject: Re: Inverted mouse wheel since refurbishment of moused? Message-ID: References: <20251019193257.4e608978@thor.sb211.local> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20251019193257.4e608978@thor.sb211.local> X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cqWxN26l2z3T1y On Sun, Oct 19, 2025 at 07:33:15PM +0200, A FreeBSD User wrote: > A while ago /usr/sbin/moused has seen some refurbishment. Since then in X11 the mousewheel is > inverted. I'm on CURRENT and 15-STABLE. Mouse is right hand. Moving the wheel "away" was > supposed to scroll DOWN towards the last entry (i.e. within an xterm), moving (or rotating, if > you like) the wheel towards me was supposed to scroll UPWARD towards historical entries. Up to > the time of this inversion there was no difference between Microsofts handling of the > mousewheel. Now, switching between M$ Windows and my lab's FBSD installation is a pain, my > limited brains capacity doens't compute the inversion of the axis very fast. Since I do not > use fancy things on how to configure the mouse in Windows I suppose its the standard how I > use the mouse (I use Windows for department's Email, just that), in FreeBSD's X11 I used for > years now either no extra config or > > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5 6 7". > > First guess was to shuffle "4 5 6 7", but whatever the order of the numbers is, it has no > effect. > > What triggers this inversion and how to restore the "legacy" or, more suitable, the > traditional way? > Have you tried a different mouse? Just to be clear, on a RasPiOS machine I see Wheel top surface away from user, text scrolls down in window wheel top surfacace toward user, text scrolls up in window It's been a while since I last used X on FreeBSD I _have_ observed scroll wheels "going backwards" on a pair of old Dell mice that I use a great deal. Contact cleaner applied to the encoder, which seems to be a mechanical switch, fixes it for extened intervals. That behavior was quite erratic, but debris in an optical encoder might conceivably do something similar, perhaps in a more consistent way. hth, bob prohaska