From nobody Mon Mar 3 04:02:49 2025 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z5lXQ05Yqz5hqPd for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 04:03:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pranav.tyagi03@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z5lXN5nzsz3cHl; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 04:03:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pranav.tyagi03@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=dBmhZQ2d; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pranav.tyagi03@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pranav.tyagi03@gmail.com Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-30bae572157so11923671fa.3; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.53 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.91)[-0.915]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.38)[-0.377]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.24)[-0.240]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::22f:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z5lXN5nzsz3cHl X-Spamd-Bar: -- On Thu, Feb 27, 2025 at 2:40=E2=80=AFPM Tom Jones wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2025, at 17:50, Pranav Tyagi wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am interested in contributing to FreeBSD MicroVM for GSoC 2025 and > > would like to focus on writing or improving a device driver. I have > > some experience in kernel development and have built a few drivers, > > but I am still learning and want to take on a task that is both > > impactful and aligned with my skill level. > > > > Could you provide insights on: > > What device drivers are currently missing or need improvement for > > FreeBSD MicroVM? > > Are there specific VirtIO drivers that would be valuable to implement > > or optimize (e.g., virtio-rng, virtio-blk)? > > Would extending an existing driver (like virtio-blk) be more useful > > than writing a new one? > > > > Additionally, since you are interested in co-mentoring this project, > > could you suggest the right people who might be interested in > > mentoring throughout GSoC? Your guidance would be invaluable in > > shaping a well-structured proposal. > > > > I would appreciate your thoughts and guidance. > > Hi Pranav, > > Thanks for your interest in this project. > > I suspect the issues with the current port are due to clocking, rather th= an explicit device drivers I think the first part of this project would be = of testing followed by debugging. > > Once we can reliably boot on microvm I am happy for the project to go in = a few directions and I would like to plan these in as "stretch goals" in th= e case that the debugging isn't too difficult. > > - Proof of Concept Integration into the freebsd build system as a test to= ol > - Proof of Concept implementation of a microvm or like interface for bhyv= e > > I have a ton of other ideas of how we could use microvm support. I see mi= crovm as a potential tool to greatly increase the testability of FreeBSD, i= t might not be a project with a lot of driver output, but it should be a gr= eat project for learning and talking about operating system development. > > - Tom Hi Tom, Thanks for your response and insights on the FreeBSD MicroVM project. I=E2=80=99m very interested in debugging the current boot issues and explor= ing further directions. Based on our discussion and my review of the boot logs, I=E2=80=99d like to focus on identifying the failure points and addressing possible clocking or hardware integration issues. I have a few follow-up questions to help structure the debugging process: Are there specific clocking issues known in FreeBSD=E2=80=99s MicroVM port, and would testing with alternative time sources (TSC, HPET, ACPI) be useful? Should I attempt booting with alternative kernel configurations (e.g., disabling SMP, ACPI, or modifying timecounter settings)? I plan to explore debugging methods such as the serial console and QEMU=E2=80=99s GDB stub. Let me know if you have any recommendations or additional areas I should focus on. Looking forward to your thoughts. Regards Pranav Tyagi From nobody Mon Mar 3 05:52:45 2025 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z5nzH4sbbz5nkXn for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 05:52:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from krutarthpatel929@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x335.google.com (mail-ot1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z5nzG3CSJz3vht; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 05:52:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from krutarthpatel929@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=ho2cUGOS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of krutarthpatel929@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::335 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=krutarthpatel929@gmail.com Received: by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-7272a839f3dso914389a34.3; Sun, 02 Mar 2025 21:52:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1740981177; x=1741585977; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GxYFhhfIgL81o0C7mDIK5vvrZeuqsPofgmQVMCk00P4=; b=ho2cUGOSAzpWqG9Qf9aN4iA/Antw435TtEPSD4Gx/PcKZC6txXaw5I5QoOI+EHpsBx ALFBiywncmWygAdaLqelKbAFJNROs4UJ4nTq8DzXWvuboX/NzKRyA7MRshyWkV7itYC5 Z5edKpPfwA3qyeNjTBvKeWB4y4Ppww/Vu4wJjAic1jWGCHoNJVDzpaZRQEnaQemfIYbd 6mZv6eUeHkieYlLWCk3umJUxjX79wUKiATuO1QLcnHfIzakmz/scrAGPu4kVV22W0PMi VEdb5ZONqmey6Pk6MfyT+ghFKTtd0s8WaR+cJUDFPdQ5JZxhd5LSfuW5h+cRL6MXWdRA 5dXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1740981177; x=1741585977; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GxYFhhfIgL81o0C7mDIK5vvrZeuqsPofgmQVMCk00P4=; b=Lcw9FZn9J5mAyGXosl+yCpU//oPzVGFzo+0FWk7SeArcKqWEKOwNl6G0E2v8Mv7uJ/ EDpk/aBa7oRaeeDzLLzZxGhSLllg55Pxgnpoj2uhnyvULXczGsKXljutBpBjhgUg9cN/ o3L/O9zQ/A1e/yk3aY92RJlATx58ufIjWpBQpTkARljADETC2r+jcQDm4gjuCpi3e7cd hrZ6Qv236mg9muyEFjvu9GmkhBA+73CgUnTxO5GS8uYdcyIAvS0Et3WUf9LK/oery5td PGGldBBNHodxB8BcS5U++VSCP5Le6mrwW6iufHvxHNMapkg0BWJ40smcxFskNurwQjfq wuQQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUDdypbt5Faa+PXIPAQm7ZBpZKP7ihFu6XJ24LYVhMF3Xqaz97QNr1EMzkWbny/5NTnZH4=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx3GtWCSJXhpJxn/vAQwohko5wCU1lYS69e0aRs2hgqYW9pG4fR Pk+8KfjtDTzAfJOg9KWJ1VMu55zLMuNqtV6nbRfPyO8UqIemc2u0Z7w6XoL5f97tkpQUZGq74nR id9vQKC4tw4NEMXNLZOe86Q6+bph6y+V2p3o+CQ== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvJUzVKsvB5OVVe+fEu7tBMz4fmyiXUjRefiPFgfYDQhe2AEeht4/pzvNkET4Z bgCD/4aLrT2jXISi84H739f0cKwlVNJXKKqkVfSiB2SosVdovWk4IEEPFPM2/zLk3p/KBbtLcXi M5plreKdd+D7o+RVuyVSadDcZjKe5oUYYrb0gYDOB5VpiFk8/y2MTTUxZO X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGHXmKMU4OSFvTW1OP8NXXUEMBIS/BWnzoXMzh2jw9dg2/VTunzUdsgX6ZfhkXSdt4oVyMKrnJDdPZMZ5l8t6A= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:3c06:b0:727:3b5a:6ae6 with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-728b8267147mr6983040a34.4.1740981177117; Sun, 02 Mar 2025 21:52:57 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Krutarth Patel Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 11:22:45 +0530 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1Jq8OGgX-7UMklfiKJGGdWb0gUQTBUGFzMLD1DTpSBXfzdTOV5TdLZSo0c8 Message-ID: Subject: Porting BeFS to FreeBSD for GSoC2025 To: hackers@freebsd.org, pfg@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009f7101062f69c493" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.29 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.998]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.91)[-0.914]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.38)[-0.380]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::335:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z5nzG3CSJz3vht X-Spamd-Bar: --- --0000000000009f7101062f69c493 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I see that it is listed as one of the GSoC ideas. I have done some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and have some Linux kernel debugging experience. I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I am in the process of porting a driver from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems in general( I have an idea of the basic terminologies like inode, block etc. but thats about it). But I am willing to learn. Here are my questions: - Is the idea still open? - Are there any smaller issues I can resolve to get myself familiar with codebase?( something related to UFS/ZFS would be perfect) - Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the source tree? - Any recommended resources for learning about filesystems( specifically FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )? Looking forward to hearing from you --0000000000009f7101062f69c493 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I see that it is listed as o= ne of the GSoC ideas.

I have done some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and ha= ve some Linux kernel debugging experience.=C2=A0

I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I am in the process of porting a driv= er from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems in general( I have an idea of the= basic terminologies like inode, block etc. but thats about it).=C2=A0 But = I am willing to learn.

Here are my questions:

  • Is the idea still open?
  • Are there any smaller = issues I can resolve to get myself familiar with codebase?( something relat= ed to UFS/ZFS would be perfect)
  • Where is the UFS and ZFS implementa= tion in the source tree?
  • Any recommended resources for learning abo= ut filesystems( specifically FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )?

Looking forward=C2=A0to hearing from you



--0000000000009f7101062f69c493-- From nobody Mon Mar 3 14:04:52 2025 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z60vL5Hbmz5pWH5 for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 14:05:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@freebsd.org) Received: from sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.186.147]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z60vL386fz3jqn for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 14:05:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pfg@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1741010716; bh=baOcQOaw/e7ulbSXbnjc9rMSD3j1DZKZWYSP5fNU8Y8=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; 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Mon, 3 Mar 2025 14:05:16 +0000 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 14:04:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Pedro Giffuni To: "hackers@freebsd.org" , Krutarth Patel Message-ID: <1150935855.6567926.1741010692744@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: Porting BeFS to FreeBSD for GSoC2025 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6567925_860494903.1741010692743" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.23369 YMailNorrin X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z60vL386fz3jqn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- ------=_Part_6567925_860494903.1741010692743 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Krutarth; Thank you for the interest! Yes, the idea is still open. In all honesty FreeBSD does have much better f= ilesystems than openBFS, but we don't have a "true" journalling filesystem = and BFS is rather well documented with an open implementation so it could s= till be a nice to have. At a time I spoke with some Haiku guys and Bruno was interested in co-mento= ring this project. As I mentioned in private, you are probably better of checking the ext2fs s= ources (sys/fs/ext2fs), for a simplified UFS. We don't have any open issues= AFAICT, but maybe fedor@ has something pending. For documentation "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD OS", seems = pretty much compulsory. Pedro. ps. I am somewhat retired from FreeBSD, if such a thing exists, but if no o= ne else steps in I would co-mentor. On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, Krutarth Patel wrote: =20 =20 =20 Hello, I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I see that it is listed as one = of the GSoC ideas. I have done some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and have = some Linux kernel debugging experience.=C2=A0 I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I am in the process of porting a driver = from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems in general( I have an idea of the ba= sic terminologies like inode, block etc. but thats about it).=C2=A0 But I a= m willing to learn. Here are my questions: =20 - Is the idea still open? - Are there any smaller issues I can resolve to get myself familiar with= codebase?( something related to UFS/ZFS would be perfect) - Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the source tree? - Any recommended resources for learning about filesystems( specifically= FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )? Looking forward=C2=A0to hearing from you =20 ------=_Part_6567925_860494903.1741010692743 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=
Hello Krutarth;

Thank you for the interest!

Yes, the idea is still = open. In all honesty FreeBSD does have much better filesystems than openBFS= , but we don't have a "true" journalling filesystem and BFS is rather well = documented with an open implementation so it could still be a nice to have.=

At a time I spo= ke with some Haiku guys and Bruno was interested in co-mentoring this proje= ct.

As I mentioned in private, you are probably better of= checking the ext2fs sources (sys/fs/ext2fs), for a simplified UFS. We don'= t have any open issues AFAICT, but maybe fedor@ has something pending.

For documentation "The Design and Implementation of the FreeB= SD OS", seems pretty much compulsory.

Pedro.
ps. I am somewhat retired fr= om FreeBSD, if such a thing exists, but if no one else steps in I would co-= mentor.


=20
=20
On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, Krut= arth Patel <krutarthpatel929@gmail.com> wrote:


=20 =20

Hello,

I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I see that it is listed as o= ne of the GSoC ideas.

I have done some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and ha= ve some Linux kernel debugging experience. 

I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I am in the process of porting a driv= er from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems in general( I have an idea of the= basic terminologies like inode, block etc. but thats about it).  But = I am willing to learn.

Here are my questions:

  • Is the idea still open?
  • Are there any smaller issues I can = resolve to get myself familiar with codebase?( something related to UFS/ZFS= would be perfect)
  • Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the s= ource tree?
  • Any recommended resources for learning about filesystem= s( specifically FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )?

Looking forward to hearing from you



------=_Part_6567925_860494903.1741010692743-- From nobody Mon Mar 3 21:04:44 2025 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z6BCk4S37z5ngxF for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 21:05:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paige@paige.bio) Received: from pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com (pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com [17.58.6.50]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z6BCk3LQ3z45Qj for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2025 21:05:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paige@paige.bio) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paige.bio; s=sig1; bh=MyYKn5Dipd5VKVad1Y3tkiIV0ubYPwmZ0i6GMXgaUz0=; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:To:x-icloud-hme; b=ZM3zlWBvRzadbGi7LoS6KdrmSsy6xr5pHpSL2s4qq36nVR+rL/9a8nyoANSCHrzWG m9g4qdplwqs8XtY7IduyCh3P3yFAUGmoc3+6QUrQZjzl0IJQJ6Bf9rUga5P5S07ZeG 8yj5sgWii8SpnoclaFigI5elnw+86CcR6iMrZQe/WHEPT060futAj4NrGFblkvnYHC B/qHroatFU8tP1OqY1a6kHSjTXUjVS4NX3IdSa0wyLAd9AjyfUCnptWBOeqxuBhWGt Swhjdxw+4bhJIKI4xE1QmU790xVV2u4gwo25/v0yU6oYQjNHXL/rQCKwUEG7NozCYC t+wh1hicyYCSw== Received: from smtpclient.apple (pv50p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.56.9.10]) by pv50p00im-ztdg10011901.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 693403A0927; Mon, 3 Mar 2025 21:04:56 +0000 (UTC) From: paige@paige.bio Message-Id: <88C34907-1525-4927-8105-153B389BFA55@paige.bio> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A1A8C444-DEB1-4B75-B124-BA035FCBB607" List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.400.131.1.6\)) Subject: Re: Porting BeFS to FreeBSD for GSoC2025 Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 13:04:44 -0800 In-Reply-To: <1150935855.6567926.1741010692744@mail.yahoo.com> Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, Krutarth Patel To: Pedro Giffuni References: <1150935855.6567926.1741010692744@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.400.131.1.6) X-Proofpoint-GUID: 9bqnrvhEGEbNnXsT-5lj-XdFvf9Ax6_V X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 9bqnrvhEGEbNnXsT-5lj-XdFvf9Ax6_V X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1093,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-03-03_10,2025-03-03_04,2024-11-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1030 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2503030163 X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:714, ipnet:17.58.0.0/20, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z6BCk3LQ3z45Qj X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --Apple-Mail=_A1A8C444-DEB1-4B75-B124-BA035FCBB607 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99ve collectively been making an ExFAT native driver (uses VFS = instead of fuse)=20 https://github.com/paigeadelethompson/exfat And I=E2=80=99ve been using an LLM to do it. I recommend using something = like Claude if you can, not sure when I=E2=80=99ll be done with this but = if you want some advice:=20 - start with newfs and use a known good chkdsk or fsck program on = another computer; macOS is good starting point if you can get befs.fsck = there otherwise plan on having to copy stuff back and forth a bit. If you use an LLM and can get this converted to text: = https://www.nobius.org/dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf it will help = you a lot=20 ExFAT is documented extensively on MSDN and Claude-3.5-sonnet seems to = have pretty decent RAG. In any case I recommend having a look through my = README and making heavy use of bootverbose.. but you will also want to = enable the various kernel level options in my readme, VFS is a little = tricky but once you get through this initial mount trace: = https://github.com/paigeadelethompson/exfat/commit/187c6694c68554f7961b427= 501373984a0742366 The rest shouldn=E2=80=99t be as bad.. you can see the snippet of = bootverbose messages have the function name that its calling from (very = helpful to have honestly especially if you=E2=80=99re using an LLM) but = be prepared to drop into DDB and reset / retry a few dozen or a hundred = times until you figure out VFS in any case xD At least with lock debugging enabled in the kernel it=E2=80=99s a little = more actionable.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 3, 2025, at 6:05=E2=80=AFAM, Pedro Giffuni = wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hello Krutarth; >=20 > Thank you for the interest! >=20 > Yes, the idea is still open. In all honesty FreeBSD does have much = better filesystems than openBFS, but we don't have a "true" journalling = filesystem and BFS is rather well documented with an open implementation = so it could still be a nice to have. >=20 > At a time I spoke with some Haiku guys and Bruno was interested in = co-mentoring this project. >=20 > As I mentioned in private, you are probably better of checking the = ext2fs sources (sys/fs/ext2fs), for a simplified UFS. We don't have any = open issues AFAICT, but maybe fedor@ has something pending. >=20 > For documentation "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD OS", = seems pretty much compulsory. >=20 > Pedro. >=20 > ps. I am somewhat retired from FreeBSD, if such a thing exists, but if = no one else steps in I would co-mentor. >=20 >=20 > On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, Krutarth Patel = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hello, >=20 > I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I see that it is listed as = one of the GSoC ideas. >=20 > I have done some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and = have some Linux kernel debugging experience.=20 >=20 > I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I am in the process of porting a = driver from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems in general( I have an idea = of the basic terminologies like inode, block etc. but thats about it). = But I am willing to learn. >=20 > Here are my questions: >=20 > Is the idea still open? > Are there any smaller issues I can resolve to get myself familiar with = codebase?( something related to UFS/ZFS would be perfect) > Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the source tree? > Any recommended resources for learning about filesystems( specifically = FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )? > Looking forward to hearing from you >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_A1A8C444-DEB1-4B75-B124-BA035FCBB607 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I=E2=80=99ve collectively been making an ExFAT native = driver (uses VFS instead of fuse) 


And I=E2=80=99ve = been using an LLM to do it. I recommend using something like Claude if = you can, not sure when I=E2=80=99ll be done with this but if you want = some advice: 

- start with newfs and use a = known good chkdsk or fsck program on another computer; macOS is good = starting point if you can get befs.fsck there otherwise plan on having = to copy stuff back and forth a bit.

If you use = an LLM and can get this converted to text: https= ://www.nobius.org/dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf it will = help you a lot 
ExFAT is documented extensively on MSDN = and Claude-3.5-sonnet seems to have pretty decent RAG. In any case I = recommend having a look through my README and making heavy use of = bootverbose.. but you will also want to enable the various kernel level = options in my readme, VFS is a little tricky but once you get through = this initial mount trace:


The = rest shouldn=E2=80=99t be as bad.. you can see the snippet of = bootverbose messages have the function name that its calling from (very = helpful to have honestly especially if you=E2=80=99re using an LLM) but = be prepared to drop into DDB and reset / retry a few dozen or a hundred = times until you figure out VFS in any case xD

At least with lock = debugging enabled in the kernel it=E2=80=99s a little more = actionable. 

Sent from = my iPhone

On Mar 3, 2025, at 6:05=E2=80=AFAM, Pedro Giffuni = <pfg@freebsd.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hello Krutarth;

Thank you for the interest!

Yes, the idea is still open. In all honesty = FreeBSD does have much better filesystems than openBFS, but we don't = have a "true" journalling filesystem and BFS is rather well documented = with an open implementation so it could still be a nice to = have.

At a = time I spoke with some Haiku guys and Bruno was interested in = co-mentoring this project.

As = I mentioned in private, you are probably better of checking the ext2fs = sources (sys/fs/ext2fs), for a simplified UFS. We don't have any open = issues AFAICT, but maybe fedor@ has something pending.

For documentation "The Design and Implementation = of the FreeBSD OS", seems pretty much compulsory.

Pedro.

ps. I am somewhat retired from FreeBSD, if such a = thing exists, but if no one else steps in I would = co-mentor.


=20
=20
On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, = Krutarth Patel <krutarthpatel929@gmail.com> wrote:


=20 =20

Hello,

I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I = see that it is listed as one of the GSoC ideas.

I have done some = contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and have some Linux = kernel debugging experience. 

I am new to FreeBSD( not = entirely, I am in the process of porting a driver from FreeBSD to Haiku) = and filesystems in general( I have an idea of the basic terminologies = like inode, block etc. but thats about it).  But I am willing to = learn.

Here are my questions:

  • Is the idea still open?
  • Are there any smaller issues I = can resolve to get myself familiar with codebase?( something related to = UFS/ZFS would be perfect)
  • Where is the UFS and ZFS = implementation in the source tree?
  • Any recommended resources for = learning about filesystems( specifically FreeBSD, I am reading a guide = about BeFS )?

Looking forward to hearing from = you



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Tue, 4 Mar 2025 03:21:20 +0000 Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 03:21:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Pedro Giffuni To: "paige@paige.bio" Cc: "hackers@freebsd.org" Message-ID: <773517072.6945384.1741058461093@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <88C34907-1525-4927-8105-153B389BFA55@paige.bio> References: <1150935855.6567926.1741010692744@mail.yahoo.com> <88C34907-1525-4927-8105-153B389BFA55@paige.bio> Subject: LLM and file systems (was Re: Porting BeFS to FreeBSD for GSoC2025) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6945383_2014583426.1741058461091" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.23369 YMailNorrin X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z6LYt2MzRz3QxH X-Spamd-Bar: ---- ------=_Part_6945383_2014583426.1741058461091 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, There are good reasons to avoid LLM generated code in an OS like FreeBSD. I= n short it will take some time to understand the licensing implications of = using code based on other code used to train it. My previous employer was c= oncerned about sharing costumer code with the owner of the AI provider. It may be conceptually acceptable to use LLM to generate test cases though,= since the test cases do not end up being part of the end product, but it v= ery much depends on the project. For FreeBSD nothing has been approved AFAI= CT. My guess for your project is that you can package it as an external loadabl= e module and add a legal disclaimer (which I wouildn't know how to write si= nce I am not a lawyer ;-) ).For a GSoC we expect a human programmer. Pedro. On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 04:05:03 PM GMT-5, wrote:= =20 =20 I=E2=80=99ve collectively been making an ExFAT native driver (uses VFS ins= tead of fuse)=C2=A0 https://github.com/paigeadelethompson/exfat And I=E2=80=99ve been using an LLM to do it. I recommend using something li= ke Claude if you can, not sure when I=E2=80=99ll be done with this but if y= ou want some advice:=C2=A0 - start with newfs and use a known good chkdsk or fsck program on another c= omputer; macOS is good starting point if you can get befs.fsck there otherw= ise plan on having to copy stuff back and forth a bit. If you use an LLM and can get this converted to text:=C2=A0https://www.nobi= us.org/dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf=C2=A0it will help you a lot=C2= =A0ExFAT is documented extensively on MSDN and Claude-3.5-sonnet seems to h= ave pretty decent RAG. In any case I recommend having a look through my REA= DME and making heavy use of bootverbose.. but you will also want to enable = the various kernel level options in my readme, VFS is a little tricky but o= nce you get through this initial mount trace: https://github.com/paigeadelethompson/exfat/commit/187c6694c68554f7961b4275= 01373984a0742366 The rest shouldn=E2=80=99t be as bad.. you can see the snippet of bootverbo= se messages have the function name that its calling from (very helpful to h= ave honestly especially if you=E2=80=99re using an LLM) but be prepared to = drop into DDB and reset / retry a few dozen or a hundred times until you fi= gure out VFS in any case xD At least with lock debugging enabled in the kernel it=E2=80=99s a little mo= re actionable.=C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2025, at 6:05=E2=80=AFAM, Pedro Giffuni wrote: =EF=BB=BF Hello Krutarth; Thank you for the interest! Yes, the idea is still open. In all honesty FreeBSD does have much better f= ilesystems than openBFS, but we don't have a "true" journalling filesystem = and BFS is rather well documented with an open implementation so it could s= till be a nice to have. At a time I spoke with some Haiku guys and Bruno was interested in co-mento= ring this project. As I mentioned in private, you are probably better of checking the ext2fs s= ources (sys/fs/ext2fs), for a simplified UFS. We don't have any open issues= AFAICT, but maybe fedor@ has something pending. For documentation "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD OS", seems = pretty much compulsory. Pedro. ps. I am somewhat retired from FreeBSD, if such a thing exists, but if no o= ne else steps in I would co-mentor. On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, Krutarth Patel wrote: =20 =20 =20 Hello, I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I see that it is listed as one = of the GSoC ideas. I have done some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and have = some Linux kernel debugging experience.=C2=A0 I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I am in the process of porting a driver = from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems in general( I have an idea of the ba= sic terminologies like inode, block etc. but thats about it).=C2=A0 But I a= m willing to learn. Here are my questions: =20 - Is the idea still open? - Are there any smaller issues I can resolve to get myself familiar with= codebase?( something related to UFS/ZFS would be perfect) - Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the source tree? - Any recommended resources for learning about filesystems( specifically= FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )? Looking forward=C2=A0to hearing from you =20 =20 ------=_Part_6945383_2014583426.1741058461091 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

There = are good reasons to avoid LLM generated code in an OS like FreeBSD. In shor= t it will take some time to understand the licensing implications of using = code based on other code used to train it. My previous employer was concern= ed about sharing costumer code with the owner of the AI provider.

It may be conceptually acceptable to use LLM to generate test ca= ses though, since the test cases do not end up being part of the end produc= t, but it very much depends on the project. For FreeBSD nothing has been ap= proved AFAICT.

My guess for your project is that you can = package it as an external loadable module and add a legal disclaimer (which= I wouildn't know how to write since I am not a lawyer ;-) ).
For a GSoC we expect a human programmer.

Pedro.


=20
=20
On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 04:05:03 PM GMT-5, <= ;paige@paige.bio> wrote:


=20 =20
<= div>I=E2=80=99ve collectively been making an ExFAT native driver (uses VFS = instead of fuse) 


And I=E2=80=99ve been using an= LLM to do it. I recommend using something like Claude if you can, not sure= when I=E2=80=99ll be done with this but if you want some advice: 

- start with newfs and use a known goo= d chkdsk or fsck program on another computer; macOS is good starting point = if you can get befs.fsck there otherwise plan on having to copy stuff back = and forth a bit.

If you use an LLM = and can get this converted to text: https://www.nobius.org/dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf it will help you a lot 


= The rest shouldn=E2=80=99t be as bad.. you can see the snippet of bootverbo= se messages have the function name that its calling from (very helpful to h= ave honestly especially if you=E2=80=99re using an LLM) but be prepared to = drop into DDB and reset / retry a few dozen or a hundred times until you fi= gure out VFS in any case xD

At least with lock debugging ena= bled in the kernel it=E2=80=99s a little more actionable. 

Sent= from my iPhone

On Mar 3, 2025, at 6:05=E2=80=AFAM, Pedro Giffu= ni <pfg@freebsd.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hello Krutarth;

Thank you for the interest!

Yes, the idea is still open.= In all honesty FreeBSD does have much better filesystems than openBFS, but= we don't have a "true" journalling filesystem and BFS is rather well docum= ented with an open implementation so it could still be a nice to have.

At a time I spoke with some= Haiku guys and Bruno was interested in co-mentoring this project.

As I mentioned in p= rivate, you are probably better of checking the ext2fs sources (sys/fs/ext2= fs), for a simplified UFS. We don't have any open issues AFAICT, but maybe = fedor@ has something pending.

For documentation "The Design and Implementation of the = FreeBSD OS", seems pretty much compulsory.

Pedro.

=
ps. I am somewhat retired from FreeBSD, if such a thing ex= ists, but if no one else steps in I would co-mentor.


=20
=20
On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, Krut= arth Patel <krutarthpatel929@gmail.com> wrote:


=20 =20

Hello,

I am interested in porting BeFS fro= m Haiku. I see that it is listed as one of the GSoC ideas.

I have don= e some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and have some Linux= kernel debugging experience. 

I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely= , I am in the process of porting a driver from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesy= stems in general( I have an idea of the basic terminologies like inode, blo= ck etc. but thats about it).  But I am willing to learn.

Here ar= e my questions:

  • Is the idea still open?
  • Are there any smaller issues I can = resolve to get myself familiar with codebase?( something related to UFS/ZFS= would be perfect)
  • Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the s= ource tree?
  • Any recommended resources for learning about filesystem= s( specifically FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )?

Loo= king forward to hearing from you



------=_Part_6945383_2014583426.1741058461091-- From nobody Tue Mar 4 04:51:11 2025 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z6NZK4gjxz5pVDy for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 04:51:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paige@paige.bio) Received: from pv50p00im-ztdg10011201.me.com (pv50p00im-ztdg10011201.me.com [17.58.6.39]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z6NZK31Vfz3PyQ for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 04:51:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paige@paige.bio) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paige.bio; s=sig1; bh=qsgarWqA2/at+t7kCHwVL1P7T5rGBOHl4z3B3h6tAIw=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To:x-icloud-hme; b=GoNwxkAMB9xzW94zSTfFFZsugk4CHHAM8vRP5olmqwwzwbS6AS6IuisWL/XKjMN0I U9G9ZImp2y7RwY8jyytBc8uxWyrEQ1UDMOEl4BYcjWIW2DhicVyrLPrWK29vHXuilo 3PSaIhGbVvPC7Cc16kPCyk2qbDkGMft+76d3MIMoFXDepTFRra3LkNpN5/9veVGmVb 16Xoq7qd/9ZVymw/hEPKGPkjVpmMa6cETW94m5AczB+6/TC6imozQ1b+NU/9O6hbIb kiVEy+oGHYVioNnVRGKpC9svs4gTCs4fzdDSWOMDEbTvWgBXsgFFGGB8fkL9NGjreV uBqp4EQuX0TJQ== Received: from smtpclient.apple (pv50p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.56.9.10]) by pv50p00im-ztdg10011201.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B1BB4680745; Tue, 4 Mar 2025 04:51:44 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9A0698ED-8B6A-46C0-AF24-2EAE3D5A5264 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: paige@paige.bio List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: LLM and file systems (was Re: Porting BeFS to FreeBSD for GSoC2025) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 20:51:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3833F097-C8A6-4F06-8F81-CA919B291FBF@paige.bio> References: <773517072.6945384.1741058461093@mail.yahoo.com> Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <773517072.6945384.1741058461093@mail.yahoo.com> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (22D72) X-Proofpoint-GUID: 83u_4rQ4XJHeeSM04FIOyVr9ge9HFKQU X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 83u_4rQ4XJHeeSM04FIOyVr9ge9HFKQU X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.293,Aquarius:18.0.1093,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.68.34 definitions=2025-03-04_02,2025-03-03_04,2024-11-22_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1030 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2411120000 definitions=main-2503040039 X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:714, ipnet:17.58.0.0/20, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z6NZK31Vfz3PyQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --Apple-Mail-9A0698ED-8B6A-46C0-AF24-2EAE3D5A5264 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It=E2=80=99s up to you man. You do you, if you wanna write it from scratch, p= robably do better than I could, but FWIW, I don=E2=80=99t think you are doin= g yourself any favors if it=E2=80=99s a method of problem solving that you=E2= =80=99re already familiar with; it=E2=80=99s a lot of work for essentially n= othing (I damn sure won=E2=80=99t care if about BeOS filesystem but if you=E2= =80=99re just looking for an excuse to make it for yourself but can=E2=80=99= t justify the effort unless you submit it for GSoC then don=E2=80=99t it=E2=80= =99s a waste;=20 osb and jails could use a little improvement there=E2=80=99s issues when you= start activating multiple fibs. People have also talked about how to tackle= the problem of secure boot and trusted like IMA/EVM, but nobody ever has (r= eally interesting problem too when you consider the implication it has on co= ntainers and jails. Podman/ocijail works on FreeBSD too now, just not with m= ultiple FIBs activated at boot (ask me how I know.)=20 And yeah even though ExFAT is pretty damn useful to me and I don=E2=80=99t l= ike fuse, getting people behind the idea of helping me bring that to fruitio= n you can forget it=E2=80=94nobody cares that much. I feel like it=E2=80=99d= be the lamest GSoC proposal ever, but it has utility for backups and sd car= ds and Microsoft=E2=80=99s patents on file indexing using a hash table are j= ust about cooked.=20 Your guess is pretty inaccurate; Anthropic doesn=E2=80=99t provide any guide= lines for this code and as far as legally what is derived work the law is pr= etty obtuse and and it=E2=80=99s kind of whatever people are in the mood to s= ay; there=E2=80=99s no basis of meaningful science behind that and they coul= d take something that you honestly did write yourself and as long as they ca= n convince a jury that you stole it then that=E2=80=99s all that matters. So for that matter you=E2=80=99re actually better off not open sourcing anyt= hing at all because all it takes is one person who realizes your code looks a= little like theirs, seriously it=E2=80=99s not a joke that person exists so= mewhere. So no at some point when I=E2=80=99m satisfied that this driver is a= s satisfactory as it can possibly be I=E2=80=99ll probably submit it, that i= s if I don=E2=80=99t decide to fork FreeBSD before then and start using the L= LM to drive development efforts in favor of where I want them to go which is= starting to look like a real possibility, perhaps in the next couple of yea= rs.=20 But yeah just focusing on what I can reasonably expect to complete in the ne= xt year or so=E2=80=A6maybe I=E2=80=99ll submit it, I don=E2=80=99t know yet= . I know that even with the LLM it=E2=80=99s an enormous amount of work even= with the help of an LLM, let alone for one person to do alone. There=E2=80=99= s no money in it, it probably won=E2=80=99t help you get a job either.=20 But yeah dude no judgement from me, I have dozens of projects that nobody ca= res about except me but really the only reason I can justify it to myself is= if I can find a way to accomplish something for as little work as possible.= But yeah, in its current state you can git clone that and cd and make and i= t will build if you have the kernel src tree /usr/src/ and /usr/src/sys and l= oad it too.. there=E2=80=99s no secure boot or module signing on FreeBSD so i= t just works.. but you know it could be different=E2=80=94 that=E2=80=99s a t= hing some people want and that might be a little more worthy of GSoC but tha= t=E2=80=99s just my opinion and it=E2=80=99s up to you.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 3, 2025, at 7:22=E2=80=AFPM, Pedro Giffuni wrote:= >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi, >=20 > There are good reasons to avoid LLM generated code in an OS like FreeBSD. I= n short it will take some time to understand the licensing implications of u= sing code based on other code used to train it. My previous employer was con= cerned about sharing costumer code with the owner of the AI provider. >=20 > It may be conceptually acceptable to use LLM to generate test cases though= , since the test cases do not end up being part of the end product, but it v= ery much depends on the project. For FreeBSD nothing has been approved AFAIC= T. >=20 > My guess for your project is that you can package it as an external loadab= le module and add a legal disclaimer (which I wouildn't know how to write si= nce I am not a lawyer ;-) ). > For a GSoC we expect a human programmer. >=20 > Pedro. >=20 >=20 >> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 04:05:03 PM GMT-5, wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99ve collectively been making an ExFAT native driver (uses VFS in= stead of fuse)=20 >>=20 >> https://github.com/paigeadelethompson/exfat >>=20 >> And I=E2=80=99ve been using an LLM to do it. I recommend using something l= ike Claude if you can, not sure when I=E2=80=99ll be done with this but if y= ou want some advice:=20 >>=20 >> - start with newfs and use a known good chkdsk or fsck program on another= computer; macOS is good starting point if you can get befs.fsck there other= wise plan on having to copy stuff back and forth a bit. >>=20 >> If you use an LLM and can get this converted to text: https://www.nobius.= org/dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf it will help you a lot=20 >> ExFAT is documented extensively on MSDN and Claude-3.5-sonnet seems to ha= ve pretty decent RAG. In any case I recommend having a look through my READM= E and making heavy use of bootverbose.. but you will also want to enable the= various kernel level options in my readme, VFS is a little tricky but once y= ou get through this initial mount trace: >>=20 >> https://github.com/paigeadelethompson/exfat/commit/187c6694c68554f7961b42= 7501373984a0742366 >>=20 >> The rest shouldn=E2=80=99t be as bad.. you can see the snippet of bootver= bose messages have the function name that its calling from (very helpful to h= ave honestly especially if you=E2=80=99re using an LLM) but be prepared to d= rop into DDB and reset / retry a few dozen or a hundred times until you figu= re out VFS in any case xD >>=20 >> At least with lock debugging enabled in the kernel it=E2=80=99s a little m= ore actionable.=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >>> On Mar 3, 2025, at 6:05=E2=80=AFAM, Pedro Giffuni wrot= e: >>>=20 >> =EF=BB=BF >> Hello Krutarth; >>=20 >> Thank you for the interest! >>=20 >> Yes, the idea is still open. In all honesty FreeBSD does have much better= filesystems than openBFS, but we don't have a "true" journalling filesystem= and BFS is rather well documented with an open implementation so it could s= till be a nice to have. >>=20 >> At a time I spoke with some Haiku guys and Bruno was interested in co-men= toring this project. >>=20 >> As I mentioned in private, you are probably better of checking the ext2fs= sources (sys/fs/ext2fs), for a simplified UFS. We don't have any open issue= s AFAICT, but maybe fedor@ has something pending. >>=20 >> For documentation "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD OS", seem= s pretty much compulsory. >>=20 >> Pedro. >>=20 >> ps. I am somewhat retired from FreeBSD, if such a thing exists, but if no= one else steps in I would co-mentor. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, Krutarth Patel wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> Hello, >>=20 >> I am interested in porting BeFS from Haiku. I see that it is listed as on= e of the GSoC ideas. >>=20 >> I have done some contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and hav= e some Linux kernel debugging experience.=20 >>=20 >> I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I am in the process of porting a drive= r from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems in general( I have an idea of the b= asic terminologies like inode, block etc. but thats about it). But I am wil= ling to learn. >>=20 >> Here are my questions: >>=20 >> Is the idea still open? >> Are there any smaller issues I can resolve to get myself familiar with co= debase?( something related to UFS/ZFS would be perfect) >> Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the source tree? >> Any recommended resources for learning about filesystems( specifically Fre= eBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )? >> Looking forward to hearing from you >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail-9A0698ED-8B6A-46C0-AF24-2EAE3D5A5264 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It=E2=80=99s up to you man. You do you, if y= ou wanna write it from scratch, probably do better than I could, but FWIW, I= don=E2=80=99t think you are doing yourself any favors if it=E2=80=99s a met= hod of problem solving that you=E2=80=99re already familiar with; it=E2=80=99= s a lot of work for essentially nothing (I damn sure won=E2=80=99t care if a= bout BeOS filesystem but if you=E2=80=99re just looking for an excuse to mak= e it for yourself but can=E2=80=99t justify the effort unless you submit it f= or GSoC then don=E2=80=99t it=E2=80=99s a waste; 

os= b and jails could use a little improvement there=E2=80=99s issues when you s= tart activating multiple fibs. People have also talked about how to tackle t= he problem of secure boot and trusted like IMA/EVM, but nobody ever has (rea= lly interesting problem too when you consider the implication it has on cont= ainers and jails. Podman/ocijail works on FreeBSD too now, just not with mul= tiple FIBs activated at boot (ask me how I know.) 

<= div>And yeah even though ExFAT is pretty damn useful to me and I don=E2=80=99= t like fuse, getting people behind the idea of helping me bring that to frui= tion you can forget it=E2=80=94nobody cares that much. I feel like it=E2=80=99= d be the lamest GSoC proposal ever, but it has utility for backups and sd ca= rds and Microsoft=E2=80=99s patents on file indexing using a hash table are j= ust about cooked. 

Your guess is pretty inaccu= rate; Anthropic doesn=E2=80=99t provide any guidelines for this code and as f= ar as legally what is derived work the law is pretty obtuse and and it=E2=80= =99s kind of whatever people are in the mood to say; there=E2=80=99s no basi= s of meaningful science behind that and they could take something that you h= onestly did write yourself and as long as they can convince a jury that you s= tole it then that=E2=80=99s all that matters.

So fo= r that matter you=E2=80=99re actually better off not open sourcing anything a= t all because all it takes is one person who realizes your code looks a litt= le like theirs, seriously it=E2=80=99s not a joke that person exists somewhe= re. So no at some point when I=E2=80=99m satisfied that this driver is as sa= tisfactory as it can possibly be I=E2=80=99ll probably submit it, that is if= I don=E2=80=99t decide to fork FreeBSD before then and start using the LLM t= o drive development efforts in favor of where I want them to go which is sta= rting to look like a real possibility, perhaps in the next couple of years.&= nbsp;

But yeah just focusing on what I can reasonab= ly expect to complete in the next year or so=E2=80=A6maybe I=E2=80=99ll subm= it it, I don=E2=80=99t know yet. I know that even with the LLM it=E2=80=99s a= n enormous amount of work even with the help of an LLM, let alone for one pe= rson to do alone. There=E2=80=99s no money in it, it probably won=E2=80=99t h= elp you get a job either. 

But yeah dude no ju= dgement from me, I have dozens of projects that nobody cares about except me= but really the only reason I can justify it to myself is if I can find a wa= y to accomplish something for as little work as possible. But yeah, in its c= urrent state you can git clone that and cd and make and it will build if you= have the kernel src tree /usr/src/ and /usr/src/sys and load it too.. there= =E2=80=99s no secure boot or module signing on FreeBSD so it just works.. bu= t you know it could be different=E2=80=94 that=E2=80=99s a thing some people= want and that might be a little more worthy of GSoC but that=E2=80=99s just= my opinion and it=E2=80=99s up to you. 


Sent from my iPhone

=
On Mar 3, 2025, at 7:22=E2=80=AFPM, Pedro Giffuni &= lt;pfg@freebsd.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hi,

There ar= e good reasons to avoid LLM generated code in an OS like FreeBSD. In short i= t will take some time to understand the licensing implications of using code= based on other code used to train it. My previous employer was concerned ab= out sharing costumer code with the owner of the AI provider.

It may be conceptually acceptable to use LLM to generate test cases though,= since the test cases do not end up being part of the end product, but it ve= ry much depends on the project. For FreeBSD nothing has been approved AFAICT= .

My guess for your project is that you can package it as a= n external loadable module and add a legal disclaimer (which I wouildn't kno= w how to write since I am not a lawyer ;-) ).
For a GSoC we expect a human programmer.

Pedr= o.


=20
=20
On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 04:05:03 PM GMT-5, <= paige@paige.bio> wrote:


=20 =20
I=E2=80=99ve collectively been making an ExFAT native driver (uses VFS in= stead of fuse) 

https://github.com/paigeadelethompson/exfat
<= /div>

And I=E2=80=99ve been using an LLM t= o do it. I recommend using something like Claude if you can, not sure when I= =E2=80=99ll be done with this but if you want some advice: 
<= br clear=3D"none">
- start with newfs and use a known good chkdsk o= r fsck program on another computer; macOS is good starting point if you can g= et befs.fsck there otherwise plan on having to copy stuff back and forth a b= it.

If you use an LLM and can get th= is converted to text: htt= ps://www.nobius.org/dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf it will he= lp you a lot 
ExFAT is documented extensively on MSDN and Cla= ude-3.5-sonnet seems to have pretty decent RAG. In any case I recommend havi= ng a look through my README and making heavy use of bootverbose.. but you wi= ll also want to enable the various kernel level options in my readme, VFS is= a little tricky but once you get through this initial mount trace:


The rest shouldn=E2=80=99t be= as bad.. you can see the snippet of bootverbose messages have the function n= ame that its calling from (very helpful to have honestly especially if you=E2= =80=99re using an LLM) but be prepared to drop into DDB and reset / retry a f= ew dozen or a hundred times until you figure out VFS in any case xD

At least with lock debugging enabled in the kernel it=E2=80=99s a litt= le more actionable. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 3, 2025= , at 6:05=E2=80=AFAM, Pedro Giffuni <pfg@freebsd.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Hello Krutarth;

Thank you for the interest!

Yes, the idea is still open. In= all honesty FreeBSD does have much better filesystems than openBFS, but we d= on't have a "true" journalling filesystem and BFS is rather well documented w= ith an open implementation so it could still be a nice to have.
At a time I spoke with some Haiku gu= ys and Bruno was interested in co-mentoring this project.

As I mentioned in private, you= are probably better of checking the ext2fs sources (sys/fs/ext2fs), for a s= implified UFS. We don't have any open issues AFAICT, but maybe fedor@ has so= mething pending.

For documentation "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD OS", se= ems pretty much compulsory.

<= div dir=3D"ltr">Pedro.

p= s. I am somewhat retired from FreeBSD, if such a thing exists, but if no one= else steps in I would co-mentor.

=20
=20
On Monday, March 3, 2025 at 12:53:00 AM GMT-5, Kruta= rth Patel <krutarthpatel929@gmail.com> wrote:


=20 =20

Hello,

I am interested in porting BeFS from= Haiku. I see that it is listed as one of the GSoC ideas.

I have done s= ome contributions in the PCI subsystem over at Haiku and have some Linux ker= nel debugging experience. 

I am new to FreeBSD( not entirely, I a= m in the process of porting a driver from FreeBSD to Haiku) and filesystems i= n general( I have an idea of the basic terminologies like inode, block etc. b= ut thats about it).  But I am willing to learn.

Here are my quest= ions:

  • Is the idea still open?
  • Are there any smaller issues I can r= esolve to get myself familiar with codebase?( something related to UFS/ZFS w= ould be perfect)
  • Where is the UFS and ZFS implementation in the sour= ce tree?
  • Any recommended resources for learning about filesystems( s= pecifically FreeBSD, I am reading a guide about BeFS )?

Looking f= orward to hearing from you



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[37.110.95.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-549441743b9sm1554131e87.28.2025.03.04.02.34.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 04 Mar 2025 02:34:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 13:34:15 +0300 From: Vadim Goncharov To: paige@paige.bio Cc: Pedro Giffuni , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: LLM and file systems (was Re: Porting BeFS to FreeBSD for GSoC2025) Message-ID: <20250304133415.73c544f4@nuclight.lan> In-Reply-To: <3833F097-C8A6-4F06-8F81-CA919B291FBF@paige.bio> References: <773517072.6945384.1741058461093@mail.yahoo.com> <3833F097-C8A6-4F06-8F81-CA919B291FBF@paige.bio> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.21.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.4) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z6X9T2Bnhz3NWj X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 20:51:11 -0800 paige@paige.bio wrote: > Your guess is pretty inaccurate; Anthropic doesn=E2=80=99t provide any gu= idelines > for this code and as far as legally what is derived work the law is pretty > obtuse and and it=E2=80=99s kind of whatever people are in the mood to sa= y; It's not obtuse, it's perfectly right. Especially when you acknowledge yourself that it is not *you* who wrote the code but LLM - it will be pretty easy for any lawyer. So Project can't take such risks. > there=E2=80=99s no basis of meaningful science behind that and they could= take It is, and it is pretty clear ... > something that you honestly did write yourself and as long as they can > convince a jury that you stole it then that=E2=80=99s all that matters. ...because, for human, it is doubtful whether it was stolen or being written just similar, but for LLM, there is no doubt: it *is* derived from training dataset, it's just difficult to determine which parts were recombinated. --=20 WBR, @nuclight From nobody Tue Mar 4 19:53:50 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z6mbL1HPmz5qc80 for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 19:54:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pj1-x102c.google.com (mail-pj1-x102c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z6mbK2HLKz3rhd for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 19:54:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=mNl3TSlZ; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by mail-pj1-x102c.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2fa8ada6662so12450897a91.1 for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 11:54:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1741118044; x=1741722844; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Cev6icgv7tylqn5n2yWPxP4AXHgwBNPCVIKASqym2g8=; b=mNl3TSlZOT3jZ3f/Il5izUmRsPlRxL5HaCSTVTrRTwTYi7vmbF1uUID4aenU/40/4/ ks5ur5xrXB0P41Nb4xlX/BXTD59zxS25ICNYP+JjomK0D6DWsTqSdZ28pLV2Idl0Prj4 z27JPAcYtRy56zxP8yc9kDafHoCC6sEPb9CVrsay/K44gDTyQ28ZgZv8rJLEKWr37J4M nJqSLI0zu89ouJByDCR+Dlxa3bvJFIMGkjlgYpK1XiIYTyrELzuk4t45gDc0yoSEpEuz 7bNkqHvu2vB3S2V4HSiq7Z74LUP8HQcs7NldHVgUtEmIObB0HQ0iZ/U4dN0oi6m98m4g CIUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741118044; x=1741722844; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Cev6icgv7tylqn5n2yWPxP4AXHgwBNPCVIKASqym2g8=; b=ugqXTwsjMYTx0GPKrjcbt5kWUa8WXEi7jiVF+QPQ8/V+8DMm9AXscJRnPQezuVWA0G PvylIpOLRoqzyOZDDGHraJlEpLB1H/GwD3lygHDYoosbGfTLKb1lHzdQrSBHTLgRqxAv L1/2O+0Kbwe8nLcK0QaKWfZwMbFqaYeI6ogO32AOuFkh5Sky95fqF/aNTgFP2AAzXA1T jlioqkINrAyopBuqfLCEUQ6rJ/3hshOfMemkS1CIukblNSexGD+dTR0HWNyPJPKivYjj dlxPOrSynqBUBXuczzrCBJqGMTRfBWOnAglMvr0te/Avh0RehJQZ8YWgLGthukEofqrW LAdg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUz81d0g8+SsZtD/MFYIHYZUzRrdwkiuC97ejxcYSmUnMYNbm4gI46pTNzWp5JnZ8g7/o49BqXqSutxR2XVg9c=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyj2gigfb93ozZeyLqXGpkkRWgPtoVlSsUnuavheuy+YPvOqfO2 kyy+IRXEUHGCFRAdGxv/G48bmfeHTUFqCFGibaLZvZaIZxTx4cnhE7aKwLJY89zaiYMgJ5IiCfo gd5pdSVNS0CEOFesOg3bMR6Z5YNFpWVGIiFe0f9ro/XjbjP47YGE= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvGa4awTy5NjSbrvy0BzjxJBLEUO9lsGLUvHGGlOOjssTixXEiMpKig1dCHn7P /iLwaDad0Nq6BOZre1xLWGtflN+EEjbhzfFLPZAYp0RLDTnU9wyX0wBJRx8OUo3Vr+LRqIOIy5Z rNrxXPxT58cxjH7uhQYzHjnKAq3620h8kA1RbZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGppkV5z8Gh6gJpXN+vVeeJKz0A6zv72yI2IJkQfZyfUkvnHs0dqJ3p4P6krwhdzXxRgWnahJcIsUBYfOk9P1c= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:274b:b0:2fe:b174:31fe with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2ff497174f8mr938033a91.2.1741118043892; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 11:54:03 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 11:53:50 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JoTKZfp1vqoqY7olcEhW1Je2lSMdmfynTPBtFMaxCulwcOsEmPJPoKunrk Message-ID: Subject: Re: What is scbus and how it is numbered on FreeBSD? To: Wei Hu Cc: Li-Wen Hsu , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000084cdad062f89a250" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.73 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.73)[-0.730]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::102c:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z6mbK2HLKz3rhd X-Spamd-Bar: - --00000000000084cdad062f89a250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 9:01=E2=80=AFPM Wei Hu wrote: > Hi Warner, > > > > I have some questions regarding the FreeBSD scbus and its relationship to > the SCSI concept of bus (of bus:target:lun). Multiple people inside > Microsoft raised same questions recently and I am not exactly sure. For > example, my FreeBSD VM has 3 SCSI disks and 2 Nvme disks. Dmesg shows: > > > > # dmesg | grep "da[0-9] at" > > da0 at blkvsc0 bus 0 scbus2 target 0 lun 0 > > da1 at blkvsc1 bus 0 scbus3 target 1 lun 0 > > da2 at storvsc3 bus 0 scbus5 target 0 lun 0 > > nda0 at nvme0 bus 0 scbus6 target 0 lun 1 > > nda1 at nvme1 bus 0 scbus7 target 0 lun 1 > > > > # camcontral devlist > > at scbus2 target 0 lun 0 (da0,pass0) > > at scbus3 target 1 lun 0 (da1,pass1) > > at scbus5 target 0 lun 0 (da2,pass2) > > at scbus6 target 0 lun 1 > (nda0,pass3) > > at scbus7 target 0 lun 1 > (nda1,pass4) > > > > - Are the scbus numbers showing above referring to the host adapters? > The scbus number is the bus of bus:target:lun. They are assigned sequentially as the different SIMs register with CAM. We never try to reuse numbers if a device departs and a new device arrives. These are allocated in xpt_bus_register() in the sim. The sim has no control over these numbers. Internally to CAM, these are called 'path_id' or similar. These are always unique. > - Are scbus umbered after the discovering order at boot time or based on > any rules? Why are scbus0, 1 and 4 missing from dmesg? > One: if a SIM registers and unregisters. This would cause gaps like this. Registering multiple buses can cause this (we only report the periphs present, camcontrol devlist -v will report all the buses). Wired entries can also cause this. I think we'll need to see camcontrol devlist -v to know which of these. > - Is "bus 0" showed in the dmesg output the SCSI concept of bus? Does it > have any relationship to the scbus numbers? > 'bus 0' here is an extra layer. Years ago, the ahc and ahd devices could support multiple parallel scsi buses on on card as one sim. So you'd see 'bus 0' and 'bus 1' on those systems. Each of those buses would also have a scbus as well. All the traffic for both of these buses would go through the same sim/sim_action() instance. So there's a weak relationship to scbus numbers since usually bus 0 as scbusN will have a bus 1 as scbusN+1 because we serialize registration and these drivers register 0 and 1. There's a surprising number of SIMs that do this (most often they call this parameter a 'channel' which is a better term imho). These could all be better documented. Warner > Thanks so much, > > Wei > --00000000000084cdad062f89a250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Feb 26,= 2025 at 9:01=E2=80=AFPM Wei Hu <we= h@microsoft.com> wrote:

Hi Warner,

=C2=A0

I have some questions regard= ing the FreeBSD scbus and its relationship to the SCSI concept of bus (of b= us:target:lun). Multiple people inside Microsoft raised same questions rece= ntly and I am not exactly sure. For example, my FreeBSD VM has 3 SCSI disks and 2 Nvme disks. Dmesg shows:

=C2=A0

# dmesg | grep "da[0-9]= at"

da0 at blkvsc0 bus 0 scbus2 target 0 lun 0

da1 at blkvsc1 bus 0 scbus3 = target 1 lun 0

da2 at storvsc3 bus 0 scbus5= target 0 lun 0

nda0 at nvme0 bus 0 scbus6 t= arget 0 lun 1

nda1 at nvme1 bus 0 scbus7 t= arget 0 lun 1

=C2=A0

# camcontral devlist<= u>

<Msft Virtual Disk 1.0>= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 at scbu= s2 target 0 lun 0 (da0,pass0)

<Msft Virtual Disk 1.0>= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 at scbu= s3 target 1 lun 0 (da1,pass1)

<Msft Virtual Disk 1.0>= ;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 at scbu= s5 target 0 lun 0 (da2,pass2)

<Microsoft NVMe Direct Di= sk NVMDV001>=C2=A0 at scbus6 target 0 lun 1 (nda0,pass3)

<Microsoft NVMe Direct Di= sk NVMDV001>=C2=A0 at scbus7 target 0 lun 1 (nda1,pass4)

=C2=A0

- Are the scbus numbers show= ing above referring to the host adapters?


The scbus number is the bus of bus:target:lun. They ar= e assigned sequentially as the different SIMs register with CAM. We never t= ry to reuse numbers if a device departs and a new device arrives. These are= allocated in xpt_bus_register() in the sim. The sim has no control over th= ese numbers. Internally to CAM, these are called 'path_id' or simil= ar. These are always unique.
=C2=A0

- Are scbus umbered after th= e discovering order at boot time or based on any rules? Why are scbus0, 1 a= nd 4 missing from dmesg?


<= div>One: if a SIM registers and unregisters. This would cause gaps like thi= s. Registering multiple buses can cause this (we only report the periphs pr= esent, camcontrol devlist -v will report all the buses). Wired entries can = also cause this. I think we'll need to see camcontrol devlist -v to kno= w which of these.
=C2=A0

- Is "bus 0" showed in the dmesg output the SCSI con= cept of bus? Does it have any relationship to the scbus numbers?

<= /div>

'bus 0' here is an extr= a layer. Years ago, the ahc and ahd devices could support multiple parallel= scsi buses on on card as one sim. So you'd see 'bus 0' and = 9;bus 1' on those systems. Each of those buses would also have a scbus = as well. All the traffic for both of these buses would go through the same = sim/sim_action() instance.=C2=A0 So there's a weak relationship to scbu= s numbers since usually bus 0 as scbusN will have a bus 1 as scbusN+1 becau= se we serialize registration and these drivers register 0 and 1. There'= s a surprising number of SIMs that do this (most often they call this param= eter a 'channel' which is a better term imho).

=
These could all be better documented.

Warner<= /div>
=C2=A0

Thanks so much,

Wei =C2=A0

--00000000000084cdad062f89a250-- From nobody Wed Mar 5 07:16:46 2025 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z73lL3w7gz5pmr5 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 07:17:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from krutarthpatel929@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x329.google.com (mail-ot1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z73lK5C45z4D35 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 07:17:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from krutarthpatel929@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=X3L9m3Cz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of krutarthpatel929@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::329 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=krutarthpatel929@gmail.com Received: by mail-ot1-x329.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-728a274632eso3144444a34.3 for ; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 23:17:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1741159020; x=1741763820; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3/EiG1pVjabuLyLkWEjWd2yVV74QRxehctP/1o6FryI=; b=X3L9m3CzKtPKOWQMPfIVsnkn/j/NIXNxgw69w2L2nqo9O8AM9PZW5KZybdN1TcSyRg td04NuHVPgrjmgIvZnTto+VCBpL0iSYLzVDkIyYogS5gCfjVlOWJbY5ANW1qOFQQBmHz cki4nY1n2gdlJ4p25BwezzMb4lApJ3+jkITF/+8T8mKGM5eW/8pllfeYskVMOxkxmuVq zrNQrf/nwyIL618BpGhrLiWs/uLc+5nH5v/JE8U5D6qdvt5CqL7i5U5kj1dtpJEWAUD7 z5ExxFoMzTu5wk+lPDFKt1VYzEPYMPzHbJT7vfsrw9X8PKjFwmYabDfJ9irDbo2/6pm5 ZRNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741159020; x=1741763820; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3/EiG1pVjabuLyLkWEjWd2yVV74QRxehctP/1o6FryI=; b=j6la+iFAACI83qjh4J/zTAVjcNgECjdgmM96h2KTw4LpCXdLoflLhB4GkhT4jOjDk5 wezr3WITiCsDglP+GCUuTKYBMmTyvx0B6SwsTX6TtyrQIgB1h6v7ytxxEl8rHkDqUacb roNvwEuBGWd10PK0pazcnx5QVQrwr2DiFcoxNra8Z0pDhfi/1ABW2dhfmZpm7aJHLs8l 73I4hLm5m9Je4emyBL4wD9IPIxTlsXklw2dMkhZJ0XpppgZmaaMuIaGZeEA3EZo1ACkB mSeo2tE5UR3wBDaqg2bK7o7xxIjlR+tk6tXbDzJ/0VoDrCE+hBS1K5bbk/DzUFqCC51u wQZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy2hO3kc9N/B3dgOuCZzpVZD5AiCCgswFMZvA0aNYOsuvHALGak sDbK1WXDLCYPH7lL12fU8/wLe5dzIDkFk5HuHxO4hwgdHHlRJtoB036/T7+Gde3uVYBawbE66gC rOSA6Eh6kewbxUDzHctSRd+8WvkPp21CSn+Vfnw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctgsVmvcd4RGU0UGt06D/fat6jBDGYIdd3askSM+pPhmFmu8W4SyqWsE5VKj8H 1l5nmElWd31FX7lXWuK53Z/ay237j6DJXGVbrELRZwDIQK+xPkS+3+SPbimsCtNRyRiH9RNX+u4 zj/3ORc0UTNFqbP4tf4stgZDB2nA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFytI0PCTXZGgzvXK5ZiyfnIy7H3H7m9TZ11SSLHMSZcihoEcKIvLMgREQBljSoi1xbFXVYk9d/ROwBl4XGZ74= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:2681:b0:72a:d31:8694 with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-72a1fbf245bmr1074590a34.9.1741159020156; Tue, 04 Mar 2025 23:17:00 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Krutarth Patel Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2025 12:46:46 +0530 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JoBaw9nuGNwuJShgsMyxl54wb3QYDjqL0Ox1czIMSbn8zPlIQpvgOp6y2U Message-ID: Subject: [NEWBIE]: creating a bugzilla account To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4dde8062f932cb9" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.56 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.91)[-0.907]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.66)[-0.658]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::329:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z73lK5C45z4D35 X-Spamd-Bar: --- --000000000000e4dde8062f932cb9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am most likely missing something very basic here but I have been unable to create a bugzilla account for the past 3 days. Here's what I sent in plain text format. I want to contribute to FreeBSD and thus require an account on bugzilla. PFB the details name: username: email: password: My regards The process seems very simple, what am I missing here? --000000000000e4dde8062f932cb9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am most likely missing something very basic here but I h= ave been unable to create a bugzilla account for the past 3 days.
Here&= #39;s what I sent in plain text format.
I want to contribute to FreeBS= D and thus require an account on bugzilla.
PFB the details

name: = <name>
username: <username>
email: <this-email>
= password: <password>

My regards

The process seem= s very simple, what am I missing here?
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([2a01:cb15:8545:7700:a776:2d30:2250:7e50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-390e485dcc1sm21953714f8f.87.2025.03.05.14.54.20 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 05 Mar 2025 14:54:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <350e58c1-03a0-44f0-bc76-9b5ad3b031ad@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2025 23:54:20 +0100 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Language: en-US From: Paul Floyd Subject: KDE hanging Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.40 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.72)[-0.725]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.32)[0.317]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::431:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z7SXt74T4z3h9x X-Spamd-Bar: -- Hi I'm using KDE on FreeBSD 14.2.  I haven't yet put sddm and dbus in rc.conf, so I'm launching them from the login console. This evening when I started the desktop and opened a couple of windows the desktop became unresponsive. I switched to a tty, and since the last thing that I installed was apache openoffice I tried to uninstall that. It took ages (well over an hour and also failed to complete, stopping at 100%). I rebooted and redid the pkg delete. I started KDE. Locked up again. So I thought maybe something is wrong in ~/.config. So I renamed it to .config.bak and rebooted. KDE still locked up. I'm running out of ideas. Any suggestions as to what is going wrong? I'll try again and see if the system is also bogged down from an ssh connection when KDE is locked up. A+ Paul From nobody Wed Mar 5 23:40:03 2025 X-Original-To: hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z7TYh6CLfz5p05w for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 23:40:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf2718@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z7TYh10lcz4Cdb for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 23:40:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf2718@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=CEik2QZE; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paulf2718@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::32d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paulf2718@gmail.com Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-43bbc8b7c65so88445e9.0 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 15:40:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1741218005; x=1741822805; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :to:from:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eE+41NK6dfZsHGu7z4sLki9jV5XS6cu6BHwqwRevJFY=; b=CEik2QZEdLN8BlelTaqsYzqkXdVeH0IaDnp8zi22A+e7Dz3I7PEDXiEtyYDiNlvLWQ ADzVIaIBOPFrqFzPyopEfQWjE9IJsU58rUQe63gnu7WH+wKAZ2Br9ymp4C2KJyDZpf9P Q9cTtvPjpThuObt2LrOIwp34ZRolzVLcsLiNAA3uN/G20dgnOpALfCcLn3vla9kG5vCB rjzPdWdY8Dj2oL5uGCoCRMIORIeJ2pqh4wJrnI/yhWU5cnm2J382m8FZUjHj0asANa3F 8FDJj4usIYGaDom/NsAcybjlY+mcyMEM+6jcnnQHYbl1B2rtw/P3MyQ/Eb0He28Ucx8f +mEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741218005; x=1741822805; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:content-language:references :to:from:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=eE+41NK6dfZsHGu7z4sLki9jV5XS6cu6BHwqwRevJFY=; b=Elwb3dH5Yxol9sGRBMqM/cKiok2SRylPxevfS3XJO98UqvGEI7zJH4Jyc8lsWlEI5n UYx5NYktLJS2sk4rag6im9aUqFivqyRS60hOhF38jSYljRCILLxRhmp53s/btG/WHOEU XZDGk8t3AEp/9TFDPtj+EXs/pWw4NnbVkEUNJKuAXTJ6Os+/vnNdfjblAuGoXGUTeH+k 23q+dESd4FajC/eYXe0nA3gAN6NyRM7JVVg89FL5fx/DUhp+pxrAkppqyHb7zzMyT94H vmLbALTvsD4w6uVwKqGCRpBQTPJ4nt7dN+cNJH5RE6mPk2fuEgvnMBZBS4c4h88xy7WL Rlow== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxb35G/ibjCM00RoPmtvIM+0TkSlnrnRqjw/g2bR7dHV2LduA+J TJgfsBZhUrOZb8vzzE0HPmlttrQrenZNP8ZmoLzTKuB3G8EunEAL7ESA1PK2 X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvw55glmNualjkFZd7ZsRbu4NaAJ5H3FSNZC8ycUvF9CXhtDaZytI5FcwVrDaU w7M3JHKG82CnQEUKOad4Xp06P3ojhW2ScwpMA0tbmKpamHlLqfT16hfyPtIJNiDWWBJbxz+URnQ +R1Ns2kprzEE8+7lbv5LCjw3EvspDWxphOQFkHzdSpdQ/K+fJ7782qgy/uNfHDpZTNhtRascaia fYeuIEOO/rNgeaoLkSjjT6uji/If41xrQ1sQONyy4LHyKL9FqZaLag3FNnWkseHWG42O/gW1+5Y PMf9PDJHea3PbT5xzzi8BXs7TOt7IQjB8ERqbGta+FCeiCoHXpHTNvn/vMx+GqdJ/z4ufrLunRQ UL7pGS6ljLhi/91D7zA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGA8dH7vyQAB2I9e2zzhyHg9mLc6StBA+uhZgdbloFVU+9a3S/FYzCHEFGjiemjal7Rw7chDQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1988:b0:439:9e13:2df4 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-43bd29bcc56mr38762945e9.21.1741218005265; Wed, 05 Mar 2025 15:40:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2a01:cb15:8545:7700:62cf:84ff:fe81:caec? 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Not sure why brought the system to its knees so suddenly. 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Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: What is scbus and how it is numbered on FreeBSD? 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Subject: Re: [NEWBIE]: creating a bugzilla account To: Krutarth Patel Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000baa63c062fc4f92a" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.70 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.985]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.957]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(0.56)[subject]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.231]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::334:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z8Zrb2gSpz42dp X-Spamd-Bar: / --000000000000baa63c062fc4f92a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 5, 2025 at 8:17=E2=80=AFAM Krutarth Patel wrote: > I am most likely missing something very basic here but I have been unable > to create a bugzilla account for the past 3 days. > Here's what I sent in plain text format. > I want to contribute to FreeBSD and thus require an account on bugzilla. > PFB the details > > name: > username: > email: > password: > > My regards > > The process seems very simple, what am I missing here? > How did you try to create the account? When clicking on "New account", this message is shown: To create a FreeBSD Bugzilla account, you need to email the maintainer of this Bugzilla installation at bugmeister@FreeBSD.org, providing a legitimate email address. You will receive an email at that address to confirm the creation of your account. *You will not be able to log in until you receive the email.* If it doesn't arrive within a reasonable amount of time, please try again. Unfortunately, it became necessary to disable the previous auto-account-creation method due to the rise of AI-generated spam. Can you send such an email to bugmeister@FreeBSD.org? --000000000000baa63c062fc4f92a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Mar 5, = 2025 at 8:17=E2=80=AFAM Krutarth Patel <krutarthpatel929@gmail.com> wrote:
I am most likely m= issing something very basic here but I have been unable to create a bugzill= a account for the past 3 days.
Here's what I sent in plain text for= mat.
I want to contribute to FreeBSD and thus require an account on bu= gzilla.
PFB the details

name: <name>
username: <usern= ame>
email: <this-email>
password: <password>

<= div>My regards

The process seems very simple, what am I missing he= re?

How did you try to create the acc= ount?
When clicking on "New account", this message is s= hown:

To create a FreeBSD Bugzilla account, you need to email the maintainer of this Bugzilla installation at bugmeister@FreeBSD.org, providing a legitimate email address. You will receive an email at that address to confirm the creation of your account. You will not be able to log in until you receive the email. If it doesn't arrive within a reasonable amount of time, please try a= gain.

Unfortunately, it became necessary to disable the previous auto-account-creation method due to the rise of AI-generated spam.


Can you send such an email to bugmeister@FreeBSD.org?

=C2=A0
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From: Juraj Lutter In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2025 21:07:02 +0100 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0AD93F3D-A7E3-4490-9262-E08D8230304A@FreeBSD.org> References: To: George Mitchell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.400.131.1.6) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on ns2.wilbury.net > On 7 Mar 2025, at 19:35, George Mitchell = wrote: >=20 > (This is an extremely inconsequential complaint, and I would not be > surprised if you completely ignore it. But it did seem odd tp me.) Thanks for pointing this out, yesterday I=E2=80=99ve had similar = experience. Like: [436/447] Extracting pcre2-10.45: 100% [437/447] Deinstalling perl5-5.36.3_2... [437/447] Deleting files for perl5-5.36.3_2: 100% [437/447] Installing perl5-5.36.3_2... [437/447] Extracting perl5-5.36.3_2: 100% [437/447] Installing net-snmp-5.9.4_6,1... =3D=3D=3D> Creating groups Using existing group 'snmpd' =3D=3D=3D> Creating users Using existing user 'snmpd' [437/447] Extracting net-snmp-5.9.4_6,1: 100% [437/447] Installing p5-Class-C3-XS-0.15... [437/447] Extracting p5-Class-C3-XS-0.15: 100% [437/447] Installing p5-Class-C3-0.35... [437/447] Extracting p5-Class-C3-0.35: 100% [437/447] Installing p5-Class-Data-Inheritable-0.10... =E2=80=94 Juraj Lutter otis@FreeBSD.org From nobody Sat Mar 8 15:42:42 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z96qs1YcXz5pMqM for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 15:43:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick.macklem@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x533.google.com (mail-ed1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z96qr30R7z3Pqs for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 15:43:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rick.macklem@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=PyXX0FWI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rick.macklem@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::533 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rick.macklem@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-x533.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e5bc066283so4347168a12.0 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 07:43:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1741448582; x=1742053382; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=QPyqElymt5HQx9NHrd1SjGXuu1cerIAPkTlSa3CxSpA=; b=PyXX0FWIef/WA85qXTpcTQiYEc1Qdw1NtuKRlw6V6H5JBdmHoH4w0W+qKmAIWDtYDG /7MWcfJH8HdXNH3JPKVD5ktPkdNaiMsLce9M1s8ugtqvUO1WTG1mUCeECjcfzoOsnjyc +0ZxnBs1v9AaZIp6nWaFLplCfyE7susOPsk2otIs3di/5klVs/ycyyL8i/hQCU5mZSet U5HA8qDJtZKpPydu6q4QLsBhNY/au1MrIoG6s6jrx0VCjenclXfPa4schNVl+QR6H7Dk crwLR7F8WQp1/H+BoSl/61eIpb832ILXHY3+OW98HxFn/ZshXVpMuMCf0lUY9qqOQfUk 9VZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741448582; x=1742053382; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=QPyqElymt5HQx9NHrd1SjGXuu1cerIAPkTlSa3CxSpA=; b=qkaX1FmyNOx60uQCAShsOuB15+udc0Kh93004WfJn1IcYMDYzTkREgpVLOcvT7tjh0 sjJA6aqE7IUrJkF3P4HHRbPbuB7fVxeQgSuLDmhXZD+br4F3DAEXme+9yX2XCX9jlMDI Q94Rhyuy1saG8f09ej/ML1Lf8EIokLyKaV798JiuQ7ooeMSJKEPA/l2Hk9ehKzzT8q6l 5kCEr6JXF8e/bEXh6LHTy7ObzMQbpP9DbzPtrDfE3Hoy6VKZLeUxuFc2v3jZj+8wRKxb wT1j3RoLVbiLHtN4r+7gv3BRpaon8hl8bSZlXqAJzXw5r7pEZGhpqnroSIkPzjQED3Ox 0qjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyKmwIRNMb0m2itLEr//viIbpZ+DCioqchr6PLRT817pbzuihYS xR8w1WTHxnqCN6WoHLp0y2dwCOIiRRN1k6fqJa3Afu/sLGbv6ea/fVcv9kMs3ZLQy8KwFpxw1S4 kldGrzfRm78sHpQfW7BiOmDdqEA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvBQamTNDGtfWgkXFxQtmafeby7saKzVGmdE+MwflHY/MZVEvXK2WQU0mQP5v/ zXyLZXBWYdaVpEJfn/riwjWWOuklAO/nJytLczvGMNs/ZQ5ZePY9ZoRL+uP3vviSWImbw49egVI 93vO1ctT1lGDcgB8P5Ku/xGRPsMVQVTXSyiPV4pd8+ifNkWTgerITamAoOag== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHlVmWFISaNJ7zd9k4yBUVCsj0+CUPSoiuu7bxvo8YSsjS/n7eXuTLWcO8NLaFOMQnkB3cNurpjZGSHA29ql50= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:5207:b0:5d4:1ac2:277f with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e5e22c98a2mr7905465a12.9.1741448580995; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 07:43:00 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rick Macklem Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 07:42:42 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JoJgUnNPf4D6J0JCWo6zMVQKsAp4yQyquOXl1HQjMulmkpsn_FVO48hfiQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD NFSv4.1 nfsd, named attribute support (OPENATTR)? To: Lionel Cons Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.87 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.999]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.97)[0.972]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.89)[0.893]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::533:from]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z96qr30R7z3Pqs X-Spamd-Bar: ++ On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 3:48=E2=80=AFPM Rick Macklem wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 4:14=E2=80=AFPM Lionel Cons wrote: > > > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2025 at 13:15, Lionel Cons wr= ote: > > > > > > On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 at 16:50, Rick Macklem w= rote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 2:09=E2=80=AFAM Cedric Blancher > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Good morning! > > > > > > > > > > Does FreeBSD NFSv4.1 nfsd support named attributes (e.g. OPENATTR= ), > > > > > per https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5661#section-5.3 > > > > > > > > > > ZFS and Solaris UFS support named attributes (via O_XATTR), does > > > > > FreeBSD do it too? > > > > No. fork files/resource forks (or whatever you choose to call them) > > > > have been discussed multiple times. > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, one showstopper was fixing the archive tools= . > > > > There was also the generic argument that Linux doesn't support them= . > > > > Then there was the issue of what VFS/VOP changes were required. > > > > (The FreeBSD VFS carries vnode locks across VOP calls and is at > > > > what I would call a lower level than Solaris.) > > > > --> Which all comes down to who will do the work? > > > > > > > > If I recall correctly, there was a time when a group associated wit= h > > > > CERN needed them to transition away from Solaris. > > > > > > That was my team, and there is still the need to do it. What keeps us > > > FRUSTRATED is the lack of progress. Well, and "no", we cannot do it > > > ourselves, this is well beyond the expertise my team has. > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? > The patch found here does the very basics for ZFS (no NFSv4 code yet). > https://people.freebsd.org/~rmacklem/xattr.patch I am updating this patch regularly. What is missing are mostly the "don't do this to named attributes" checks for other syscalls. I'll be adding those soon. I have done nothing for userland. I am hoping others might step in to help with that. --> I do need opinions w.r.t. what else is needed (if anything) syscall wis= e. If you want to see this proceed, please test/look at the patches. There is now also a patch for the NFSv4 client/server to use the above. https://people.freebsd.org/~rmacklem/nfs-xattr.patch. https://people.freebsd.org/~rmacklem/xattrtest.c is the simple program I am currently using for testing. rick > > It will only work for a ZFS file system and I think you need to set the > xattr property to dir. > Once you apply the patch to a kernel and rebuild/run that kernel, > you need to copy /usr/src/sys/sys/fcntl.h to /usr/include/sys. > The attached trivial test priogram should work. > (It uses O_NAMEDATTR in a manner similar to Solaris, although > I do not have a Solaris system to play with, so the semantics might > not be exactly the same?) > > If people pick this up and test it, I will be inspired to continue to > work on it. > > I will come up with NFSv4 code relatively soon and put this up > on github someday. I have no idea if this will ever make it into > FreeBSD's main? > > rick > ps: See the attached trivial test program for how to use it. > > > > > Lionel > > From nobody Sat Mar 8 17:14:16 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z98sD3GVzz5pV0S for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 17:14:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z98sC1QLbz41qb for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 17:14:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rozhuk.im@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=F4096PD4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rozhuk.im@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::52e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rozhuk.im@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e61da95244so683006a12.2 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:14:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1741454061; x=1742058861; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:subject:cc:to :date:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=HVsPlXUhmKRhBW8O2ZrUvph2QGr9y5n/2Osa/31Yz80=; b=F4096PD4pNaNPA1bTN9fmhiUviXpcWwCxQiPuOMJdIeXd/ylQSfPI4waRt6Xz3HNmk aFPRDHHzV2JCG2ABRBMSFD3voJKOhjW6gZqKLcbx4CfD8+sIlG//9i10RIueCYWD2ncm CowhInO82z0shnuRiHMLCJ4kL2J2eD2UxAbWGXhwBz7nt4LnQyW28opDHN9cCxVbil/Q f18L9IMdcX693itT/jyCgtCJudvfpuW39kIFFryy1tAxWlfDQ9PKp0MoF4yZwFTI4yaD jLYuCELS+hzzpk/1UVD/zcTQ/qvsoBBXFJfDGTLJ6pddOS8qoY8t0BBJDcifUt6t429o oV4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741454061; x=1742058861; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:subject:cc:to :date:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=HVsPlXUhmKRhBW8O2ZrUvph2QGr9y5n/2Osa/31Yz80=; b=Txr0mdqpAhViXvxiYdvziRMZZUAcLTvKLU6rtmwAPC36OCsEqaeGFWbR03Qmb/J/5T q0jSFjNDZL56eFvsa8e+wf11FdDftn2oE+z7FJwx+9MB7KPigDDAw0c/2/95eupWNGro fmh6rYMTp3W339AT0kptijqQ9Xx4qpW7zlZCeGZX8+NP5KuUkC+H1SGKe9YvgtzB21bR AI37B//1ST7y06eRa6CSSxAqRulI2/z4UWWSGvdTkUPvQ7Wn39Y59xRF4g1B2qCSEjeX PHttKt1P5gPC7ETCxBl3jo6FyaXN0/yBi7rgrg50RYgBDFYFeNJ0MwkSZ7KZABs89TIQ sZFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzdwqZSdSdGOrJiwIMAAYh3w02Adeq2o23PmecTMEGIqT/SO7zi N63ZIT6DsqNKL5F+c8pSYa8tk/fob2sRH/s4zBhKD9PBQekXruiSBElEYw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct6G/PfMVanzhOjXMRea8SHixVtI2/8fKAjmG+dbDkpGM1y6DEMw08Otu7D2mn jsqW1fW8y0Jdn6Lv4yKh0PVwxUD5pMMsktNte4jHOSVg7FTDtZmUKyAsKJolDgdy7tdjLFW2z+a QN7ipCILqTxJkx8abXp6vuDEhvy1XFgcmTR4+9VsKs25Pv72S8nOxxPyI2YunyGPdKBCQXUJkpC lk0K2z0fYCBcxs7q/B5sj5KR9vesGH+6OHFNO6xrV1W5HxCSPwZeq+gG6WO3nWzYNP3Xej65ild TuKBZB517xUZp6oD/vdOzt8ktuGDYQF4+p263N0e/3tp01YO X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFdq8hn4GUxGF9J/S8BpWZeVjVXHeupzss36NKjnAqNUopbdSmfPF+32MkmDc60Tkv0zNDqGg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1d54:b0:5de:aa54:dc30 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e5e22989dcmr8885510a12.5.1741454061143; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rimwks.local ([2001:470:1f1b:4dc:b964:f631:e6c9:69e4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e5c768f207sm4156986a12.79.2025.03.08.09.14.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 08 Mar 2025 09:14:19 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:14:16 +0200 To: FreeBSD Hackers Cc: Rozhuk Ivan Subject: What happen with vm.v_* on stable? Message-ID: <20250308191416.7252c32d@rimwks.local> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.0 (GTK 3.24.43; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.1) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.99 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.99)[0.991]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::52e:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z98sC1QLbz41qb X-Spamd-Bar: / Hi! "vm.v_free_min", "vm.v_free_reserved", and "vm.v_free_target" sysctls describeb in i386 notes and some FBSD docs. I try to tune it - see no effects. I look into code of 14/STABLE and fail to find code that read these values. It seems it only show some initial on boot values and do nothink while OS work. Is some commits not backported from main to stable or it some refactor artefacts? From nobody Sat Mar 8 18:14:21 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z9BC82HwRz5pYTl for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 18:15:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [104.236.120.189]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z9BC54Dvdz3Qr7 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 18:14:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=denninger.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of karl@denninger.net designates 104.236.120.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=karl@denninger.net Received: from denninger.net (syn-071-015-252-132.res.spectrum.com [71.15.252.132]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3662110FC for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:14:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.10.14] (D4.Denninger.Net [192.168.10.14]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22C154AF397 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 13:14:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <99d5c6dd-dcb2-460a-a0a4-eaac92d5f9e1@denninger.net> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 13:14:21 -0500 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: What happen with vm.v_* on stable? 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On 3/8/2025 12:14 PM, Rozhuk Ivan wrote:
Hi!

"vm.v_free_min", "vm.v_free_reserved", and "vm.v_free_target" sysctls des=
cribeb in i386 notes and some FBSD docs.
I try to tune it - see no effects.
I look into code of 14/STABLE and fail to find code that read these value=
s.

It seems it only show some initial on boot values and do nothink while OS=
 work.

Is some commits not backported from main to stable or it some refactor ar=
tefacts?

Quite a long time ago the VM system and ZFS' interaction with this (specifically UMA) had some very bad effects under certain workloads and these three sysctl's tried to mitigate that -- and not very well in some cases thus I wrote up a set of patches and they were under active discussion for some time (they solved the problem for me but not for everyone.)

It only bit you under certain circumstances but if it did it was pretty bad (e.g. 30 second no-response pauses, etc.)

I've not seen this sort of m= isbehavior in the last couple of major releases and am running fairly-hea= vy "same general type" workloads that used to be trouble with ZFS on both= 13 and 14 without incident. There has been a LOT of improvement in thes= e interactions in the intervening years and OpenZFS was brought in as wel= l which also was involved in significant improvement for certain workload= s.

--
Karl Denninger
karl@denninger.net
The Market Ticker
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(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 08 Mar 2025 12:53:42 -0800 (PST) From: Rozhuk Ivan X-Google-Original-From: Rozhuk Ivan Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:53:38 +0200 To: Karl Denninger Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What happen with vm.v_* on stable? Message-ID: <20250308225338.3ecf012d@rimwks.local> In-Reply-To: <99d5c6dd-dcb2-460a-a0a4-eaac92d5f9e1@denninger.net> References: <20250308191416.7252c32d@rimwks.local> <99d5c6dd-dcb2-460a-a0a4-eaac92d5f9e1@denninger.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.0 (GTK 3.24.43; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.1) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z9FkL648lz3WWS X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 13:14:21 -0500 Karl Denninger wrote: > > Is some commits not backported from main to stable or it some > > refactor artefacts? > > > > > Quite a long time ago the VM system and ZFS' interaction with this > (specifically UMA) had some very bad effects under certain workloads > and these three sysctl's tried to mitigate that -- and not very well > in some cases thus I wrote up a set of patches and they were under > active discussion for some time (they solved the problem for me but > not for everyone.) > > It only bit you under certain circumstances but if it did it was > pretty bad (e.g. 30 second no-response pauses, etc.) > > I've not seen this sort of misbehavior in the last couple of major > releases and am running fairly-heavy "same general type" workloads > that used to be trouble with ZFS on both 13 and 14 without incident. > There has been a LOT of improvement in these interactions in the > intervening years and OpenZFS was brought in as well which also was > involved in significant improvement for certain workloads. > Probably better to remove these sysctls as they do nothing and provide no usable data? My problem is that amdgpu start freezes in case freemem =< "v_free_min". And I have no ZFS at all. I am looking for some sysctls or patches to mitigate freezes. Looks like this issue is same for me: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=277476 https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod/issues/302 From nobody Sat Mar 8 21:09:12 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z9GHC4cLRz5q2Gr for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 21:18:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org) Received: from uucp.dinoex.org (uucp.dinoex.org [IPv6:2a0b:f840::12]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "uucp.dinoex.sub.de", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z9GH84wBqz3jK0 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 21:18:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; arc=pass ("uucp.dinoex.org:s=M20221114:i=1"); dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org designates 2a0b:f840::12 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org Received: from uucp.dinoex.org (uucp.dinoex.org [IPv6:2a0b:f840:0:0:0:0:0:12]) by uucp.dinoex.org (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 528LI7KB034612 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:18:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=uucp.dinoex.org; s=M20221114; t=1741468690; cv=none; b=PTOXucuHCI4uWnbIGuFwQCq4P6AIRDLx7UZ9JjZb5G05GCfUuXVk6vazdx3fv7MEaXHDt4TF6BVFwXY5xbzew9qfdMpuhq08dlYqSNt68SzD9m2GJytTeGOo/PeQBS85lb4/PToGstWm+Ig7SJwsCzJxga/xSkPxlZv9RSck34c= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=uucp.dinoex.org; s=M20221114; t=1741468690; c=relaxed/simple; bh=SfdFZgdzA2Hwp6irAnNGNMVPSesjQnHZhprvQJPMtMQ=; h=Received:Received:Received:X-Authentication-Warning:From: X-Newsgroups:Subject:Date:Message-ID:References:Injection-Date: Injection-Info:User-Agent:To:X-Milter:X-Greylist; b=j/RQ8aE3+PTO2VhZ8xhWxYt3KKibrIwVcWVA/lpUtD4CWcOzqBSJ1dGFHU670Feoe65dM1HtX1xlcVGXQVY5f3TT62DWM6oyR5IfX8TaAXaVPSUT4m48nGAI9zyMGNowLjhSjay+3SOmV1zkvbu0W69OlRzMBj+tPVBNIJmzng0= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; uucp.dinoex.org X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp.dinoex.org (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) with UUCP id 528LI7rr034611 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:18:07 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org) Received: from admn.intra.daemon.contact (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by admn.intra.daemon.contact (8.18.1/8.18.1) with ESMTPS id 528L9INS053942 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:09:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org) Received: from intra.daemon.contact (news@localhost) by admn.intra.daemon.contact (8.18.1/8.18.1/Submit) with NNTP id 528L9Cqu053453 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:09:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org) X-Authentication-Warning: admn.intra.daemon.contact: news set sender to li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org using -f From: "Peter 'PMc' Much" X-Newsgroups: m2n.fbsd.hackers Subject: Re: What happen with vm.v_* on stable? Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 21:09:12 -0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20250308191416.7252c32d@rimwks.local> Injection-Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 21:09:12 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: admn.intra.daemon.contact; logging-data="43387"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@citylink.dinoex.sub.org" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (FreeBSD) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Milter: Spamilter (Reciever: uucp.dinoex.org; Sender-ip: 0:0:2a0b:f840::; Sender-helo: uucp.dinoex.org;) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (uucp.dinoex.org [IPv6:2a0b:f840:0:0:0:0:0:12]); Sat, 08 Mar 2025 22:18:10 +0100 (CET) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.90 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[uucp.dinoex.org:s=M20221114:i=1]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.90)[0.901]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[pmc@citylink.dinoex.sub.org,li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[pmc@citylink.dinoex.sub.org,li-fbsd@citylink.dinoex.sub.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; ASN(0.00)[asn:205376, ipnet:2a0b:f840::/32, country:DE]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sub.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z9GH84wBqz3jK0 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org On 2025-03-08, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: > Hi! > > "vm.v_free_min", "vm.v_free_reserved", and "vm.v_free_target" sysctls describeb in i386 notes and some FBSD docs. > I try to tune it - see no effects. > I look into code of 14/STABLE and fail to find code that read these values. > > It seems it only show some initial on boot values and do nothink while OS work. Yes. I noticed that when upgrading from R.12 to R.13, my tunings on these values no longer work. The matter is probably related to this (but I don't think you can tune these easily - doing so would be somehow ambitioned anyway): admin@edge:515:1~$ sysctl vm.domain | egrep "free_(reserved|min|target)" vm.domain.3.stats.free_min: 25825 vm.domain.3.stats.free_reserved: 5388 vm.domain.3.stats.free_target: 87136 vm.domain.2.stats.free_min: 25827 vm.domain.2.stats.free_reserved: 5388 vm.domain.2.stats.free_target: 87144 vm.domain.1.stats.free_min: 25827 vm.domain.1.stats.free_reserved: 5388 vm.domain.1.stats.free_target: 87144 vm.domain.0.stats.free_min: 51281 vm.domain.0.stats.free_reserved: 10647 vm.domain.0.stats.free_target: 173183 Which brings me to another question: when a domain runs full, why does the system start to pageout instead of utilizing QPI? I for my part solved most of the problem by hacking ZFS UMA to do round-robin. UMA can perfectly do that, it's just not documented anywhere. But there is a patch suggestion from I think Mark Johnston? that does practically the same. cheerio, PMc From nobody Sat Mar 8 22:22:49 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z9HjV1YRQz5q6N7 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 22:23:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic309-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic309-21.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.147]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z9HjS5TDrz3FcW for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 22:23:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b=S8y8stCk; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.65.147 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1741472586; bh=jtlpo6Zt694YOdBhV2B9hlk3u/T6n0b3Ooy4JpANmgk=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:References:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=S8y8stCkUjc2/bSoh/MgtZrNTI7lrhTGpGoPbv/ectMmwidcX0nzHVQJQCCmn1l1Xwyf/hWHOY+00FukB7GRH616d0jaP0wfCZRNRZhkIGQjDOKWWiAKF1HWGX2UqTkCqiyX4qBEM3It1Ppn3nkpTRePbo/kTJGrtuXiRa2/dob+ktVrbnXlY2DXk3GHMnUaDgrRCD3QfBjzAg/noHveQjG9HoaE5ifPbCWcTKt3Cfy+iRN5ZK8fkgg+Cd8HNJMit2NJxwmZPCTRDQVH4jhqhos9fOP7kO2dXaNAVkxt+WloXRuAd19Tzz3l3IJ5VUcdU70/V3GKLR5gAYvajUwrEA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1741472586; bh=MzuQb8sN5GhHtJGg+ueL4sqw48mrHpJxPOgiKHKCoKR=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=Qlb0OZjp4OWgopOGwxARmWQDwQoYfqwwkxymN8r6ehI5zJ8BeRwGZhdaNKRgHqSFOusKjXtbX5WK7YpAyvNb6It/0y301GhYCFYtzLphYg5W6wY4y4G2C8k3df/m5AYdtKqnoGAFh5a62u+8Dr+PRdpDxdqBvIonyLZRkm/74DZcF41XTXP1wzjJ3Ro2cm6k9PvRvN8LcsGHZW4pr5HQW1Q1lJFM7mgBpyWyp9TjCw3gYQPaCLlOvmttIorir9XXRVO3sZXx/EZK561O+GFQ5L8fOC8vGeinUc2Mh6wr3camxdLf295dGZ4KTdxLpPbchpJqfmHhyJ1PMX11ttN6fw== X-YMail-OSG: zsJFYaYVM1mvbwcLSLiGKdszrW9FG2v3THJAbe6eGD0ihzSJfJ0APV0jOC0mPmj qqVJstfBAiJLRLloCqQ4hnuixv7dn9Qn2IHb7E4o4bSmzsBZM.F1EKFtwOj9oSuW8geDfm6JHEHg ItYTQJ_BMaIfM41F1kBTfoBWZcAsg0W8RzOCbHuacGLdVqZONaHDA7KcG5y41bnYdtBHdChXagZu l7LBWLdpbZUXmu4AeC2okbW5833DMv41OO3zrWgP6LjNUbYVJNmP1ksPsy84fnmbbZL.14BGt0vR 0r60MP77UofwhK1zg8n_Qkgc251iiSPa3mqGIS_ZlrsVb5IHoeR5vOlAcIEHGnHnJCJF5AXHN.oU 95TVjnNzoBTiwt9MwqGrCCHG3F1CXHEb.lTrFma7Rkycl5qMXTjQhx4EBIS046TwsYF6Ev2oHh0H tOVtFJIQRzmXnsY6b3QmmdyIBIupwM11MFJrAF91Vg9c72XZr._xIutnN6luhmqo90B1EJm7EqAP tJcOh98O0OxqT5vJMCH23LgkG3Qis9Z32QkOuqpjJqqPuvpw0MySXtwXqhKC77X7Y7WnQv2Y5bGE 7LztvcQPrBu9gR7g8ySyahHkbQf.EAcJUGNZ1zGBztRjZATisAZj7zh8BjXRCKI8bGHqqdwjYBVW 3OrtGtwpDItj2KYK61yUMMPoAanWC9Ce.t0J7lMJOAitTImQ10TTB85rrT3XhoLzdQ_Oz973cRla PfVVik4.hCj9EuG7buq.qNT8taKUXSClsBCmcCK6JZDG0GhrMzPDfUC61LL6GC7ak1.c4Llv.XW2 ehdOeLmUgHJ823MZFI7jDb37IULr_zkUnePVU4aY5mr.rso_y2ZHJTqgJ95DGX5CklOVqad00.BK 9vqcLyXEymZeqc7s63WmkPVKc9F8W7wKIX.K.emr1Rrbfnwm5Nh6cSBQOEUD2ZLqujPc8bDs3Dpf uDycJzjV3yQ2PBVqrNOMlg5Ja09thDGX27B6d43Fsb6V4cmlCxyNZmPIfoj7CRi.ExB1j7MI6S4O FfNwNjq308bayUf008QzRFQtqJePC61ryQ37cIAbGr41RjO6glHtS6H64Gp6CpDzEFOsW26_Xuaf SQBaEWzxxAD0Evugv7BumPTX4HWU9IZh0uLQizzTsYG5Qwh5SFSzKhttS7INW8oXKXYCzHV7tlCs 4LtQ69Z6DUVkKw8WSDTQ8Ng1oyzkHsodsAKX4HTZDfvSI2OhrK9kJeYBNv.h2DDHHjPsAWaQgioQ CaXLACgcU5tB.B5d.mLqVOF125JdewSo_LMS2Xs4xiezDv3epECgfiutLWzZh0g.XlUHJiIytMOg jqBm5MrjN...e5tio4TtykzAs0GaCTMigL4ga5I43dw2Zn0gRM4I3wVnbK52pPlal.ZdeyZx0YAb fEOHTquub7PEsedg0sckoyVosbaZW6qttErR2ac01WlUHtWNghJiVhye3HKn4KrNZYTjvAS7wUIp UcP7RVP_pUVTjWWatSkjVYvEbHfr2In.cYBpLGz9UjgO7M_ggKJLxB1dAAoCdZs_JM6sHbkr60MP kFJ.W5866EV23embpNGqyOsSRAKRuYBWa5G2BqA2hGnbBdUVUxZYauT1TpGrSqudNzrLW90uzMMh Nhk.3BXJ9APBfuNdq9bpaghb_lIYJutNMTdeKMcqk12gv68dNo38DIGqXMPdWNC9DjvSGsV8fvJP yAiB6oMs3m.k4v_3BEOofWo30hHNqa2NezvE4dzpx.XkumXIbcdQyUAkD8eAObJtj1EjUbUpZo2X 7j4Xh10D5vzMKvNd_d509eVdduahpdhxUs8XtpS3GQwAUNm1Uyv0w7DdMDUNnpdVVqDu6knr8SO7 Gl90SxV2a7zeywwD6eMLqs6az02RS9iu5hVSH6is22BX.uQuu2aEL6UtchNIf8NcWU_CFfbPxMug 8PQg9hXAhiTdWin5a33d3OPXQ3Lc57KvOejYoeyvxHwc06ZQJfg.milfVOObzNSzc8fJEG2D_CnE Y6kwf9bnYYiGI.myZubiQmZGtNMNgnqw6ombTgL1MU45wAkGG9YZrIGS21RUs8drr2mtdgLZ4Fb8 Il5m0t8zAbHeSxcazlW11zDs_Bo7Io5wQEL1W65oY4NEpEkTJj20rQZnWvgaPeYaeZLlMPf1El9j 6KrfNuXkUoCJ0Ake7PKoFTJk70BMPfyJ7PWRImpAUAJnxsJcaDHAbc12VCRUa0SAPSxHnThvjmOt uzR5r1Z6JIdggXfMnyF.vC0j49yuicOgQMOvAvw9PRyBVQxBgGdpg9jFYDLyl1mvVtimkO2KgJQ7 DOGIs X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 8c183126-df7e-4d27-8e00-3a73debe122d Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:23:06 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-7d5f4447dd-kplct (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c0e8adaa9e5e8c80d4aa2c388fa672fe; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 22:22:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.400.131.1.6\)) Subject: RE: What happen with vm.v_* on stable? Message-Id: <7C1A8B0F-CBF3-45F6-9EC4-56B4AE3FFD1B@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 14:22:49 -0800 To: Rozhuk Ivan , freebsd-hackers X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.400.131.1.6) References: <7C1A8B0F-CBF3-45F6-9EC4-56B4AE3FFD1B.ref@yahoo.com> X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.21 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_SENDERSCORE_REPUT_9(-1.00)[98.137.65.147:from]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.980]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.894]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.20)[0.203]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.147:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.147:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z9HjS5TDrz3FcW X-Spamd-Bar: / Rozhuk Ivan wrote on Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 17:14:16 UTC : >=20 > "vm.v_free_min", "vm.v_free_reserved", and "vm.v_free_target" sysctls = describeb in i386 notes and some FBSD docs. > I try to tune it - see no effects. > I look into code of 14/STABLE and fail to find code that read these = values. I see reads of vm_cnt.v_free_min and vm_cnt.v_free_target and = m_cnt.v_free_reserved : # grep -r -e "\" /usr/src/sys/ | = more . . . /usr/src/sys/contrib/openzfs/include/os/freebsd/spl/sys/kmem.h:#define = minfree vm_cnt.v_free_min /usr/src/sys/contrib/openzfs/module/os/freebsd/zfs/arc_os.c: = zfs_arc_free_target =3D vm_cnt.v_free_target; /usr/src/sys/contrib/openzfs/module/os/freebsd/zfs/sysctl_os.c: if (val = < minfree) . . . /usr/src/sys/vm/swap_pager.c: s +=3D vm_cnt.v_page_count - = vm_cnt.v_free_reserved - . . . /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_reserved +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_reserved; /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_target +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_target; /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_min +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_min; /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_severe +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_severe; I see the same in both my main and my stable/14 source trees. > It seems it only show some initial on boot values and do nothink while = OS work. See above. I've not analyzed the code involved, however. > Is some commits not backported from main to stable or it some refactor = artefacts? =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Sat Mar 8 22:47:35 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z9JFy5Dm7z5q7FB for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 22:47:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic311-24.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic311-24.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.205]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z9JFx2fj2z3Rfv for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 22:47:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yahoo.com header.s=s2048 header.b="M/KyFLTH"; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=yahoo.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of marklmi@yahoo.com designates 98.137.65.205 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=marklmi@yahoo.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1741474067; bh=zS9+Si8aDiAAXiyw5sAFVYoqUjZnwqqKoCtv1JDJkaE=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=M/KyFLTHyhTe3bVbRLj8lZJgv/NBJ2TvlUy+aejXl9aBH4ndTvrPJBX3epUGF2aybX81H7//vLF49BiB5TuATwqFA2LB54tnleZ1A1spB4b3SAWd0N8L3VQvmm40lk1k9KiFtEzjuInBXuQqwkBAWE705Gd8oHPcto7uZaAqkwCegRZLY30AmNnKCH3cp3zoN3LIAjcYF+KXuMqWZEOuuujNXbNupYfSOxe6icuB9O+mn2Ap5wWOHoHZWmKL/81DE8cZTLAtU+XoKzTpVJoQVc3QA8uwVbMjzXuL5KJgmYyl9Vab5x/5SEhGYeadWG/j9gLKjiWjNtGCMFrXzkSwFQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1741474067; bh=2qu0YGPThrVWoV8sbm3lFwshGTP58R+Tqc8DwWvTJRw=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=o7R+VuwYzqRI9cmJDiuniq/7ySy5K2cZbrzb/MAMUsqwkXalIIf+IH/1oCIApUxETLxD/GEOzlCS5rrLX3GWGc0Y2Vk6pg+AT381U787PUTk7bhRPacjJwKgYuryuAcxFwjwzScJlfZiIV/XxHmicjaBjXPV09BPu8cV7Vrk4gBt8u+y37izgLK5BZPofpkZa3wmHUpgLt+uep8zyygch/XCp90ZSjg2Q5sYsqUpST1U1ybXlKMGfWOISxM/Ma7Ph1qQkpvtyCCDvBENKOeGaEpFhN63DSnUGbh4CMS+74NJh7gi5gs4fiGqFsO6qK8W86iATh1KRhHRdDqMoBh/dg== X-YMail-OSG: Ku8UEPcVM1m..2pGeq7aLNpInnJ6IvASmaVIAaSmZJGVs6yFezaPxruh9GNRcVL jgfYGV4UHT21Csnrm7Rld9oF9vAREEJ71Wj7JZGhSBogSO622aCClChrB7HJgR72GWBxn4wp2jRd JWHMHB.Uk3xsf1zq2V0dR3fAE17c9Axywj23.uCgfUfl9EvftB4F.FpghNJx.onq.vZ1UA6jm6iJ 0T.BpDD5vWnAkxdWqExwKuSq3wKS9oHMkQ0xSrxp9rTFTRHjOfC6GLGObAwVRpOsebvfwKfbiNv6 nafJb0tj_GO1vLO.wbyeoINFFpGZDewADW4arNK6lltL0AE98YbAS4LtB1unG.meIcS8PGB.XKft 8RWbQEqkQmi6UU..F2hIc4K6UE9vSh6rI2fupdSMu1WIDEiq3YfuinqvGxfxx3AVhMC1v4IgINYy 4aDBqESHIfRYUBciRCpcyUWFow7Jd_P_C799LAlpxHe7ayQfQATWj25CKaerT5AXkRD5ehz.2B2e W4DvI9KxGu3jPvaBuYwhiDRhxeDCLm6hWQJT80RWmLf1NQYxpuyEUTUkuHjvrqxjzy0Ek3ZJyXAp yCE6gCb7LFR1MHsQjXe_GjK3mcEUYFYChKDbjo1awVhLzUfRqJlSIu3WTBJflutwd6Emph4IRVzy 10QsypfxgNcTtMn3caXA2ZvRWJiIxdUGsnvA6uGtwTM8rJlgsubXHh0kI3xE8qdfn_nsmBO0Y_wU oprBPB6fXKbrp97.lagrzHeyRXapdXr2dKxGB2iHGrJXSu9t6.qxWEAw3tJyx9VAMYD55vYGyoIx YCbwvKqPD5mh5_ouUCYft.bXnzbmDJdJENWTU3wWMUVCljoyiAOk9aIoSPohkcow5dTzRk_Y4Jo. uQm_b7RARGloRdAQpj2jKnL8mBhm99A4_4aPkAc_6uYckh75BGCxBz6pynCVW5DmObkVFbq9n.1w U2FGEFjyt9R78YOvGtPG5OQwgqy2gJG2.3qbLGr7pV8f.zoCy_m1kbpFSUp5UCfwSK.b3rFyni7c YhZuE7HhMQzonIgl9XJAVreXLTlAzyEBMS6pXEmJ3r3PFUrTrodCB0wCo0np4en7OiO82AAOoP01 Pzm.HqyXLOLSEeZp7VYg5j4T9H6ZhH6pK7GaaKvtSYa1yZTGbA5F9DeINvI0M0qWCaHStMlALFCb FHTN0AgqfT9IAOlatX.3JNJkoSfERhZMO_vEO5Soeg39SjfVP4dRvWmefXoWvvxzKgL2u5UpXWDP 1FcFWS4YzxUBwnTgevCP7.PK3wgTlkvn9wK2CJF_CpPXlg_TSUrUBYbz_BwfKN7ZV85MgwYWrpPV wnek7lTtB1JoAancPkECx00yaaCBbpr0W3gb0J5._au9RP8uk60oMCKgRYGXZnxwsN744umaJEIh RClfWCDSrKSxAXhJ4MbpAfr0CnM4xZ1GQJ7xs48MtBe.OVI0Y7XB6uaydxNd3lWeVgyKjWhWASfV E6jx7wNiWf7kmSNhslXqU_VhD7B_DGhVozOzRm_tf2OfVO0aFhLwn0WyNMU26u9UbukjaRDyItfK PvsTBMlCWK0nQAxEdtsWwwlgAb3lEZxiDKmsGB5H_GvLfpcf.0iR66sgF04Z1dFzQV8pVP2r_c0x qaY3AY6.qDUCdS2o2Gw7UK.YSAiPpc_Gu1.dFFKBjQaSn1LF5sVKP2VeWo8NawAuhnHrD015Nj1P YBZF0oxFEYgJwueencA0Km0ulhSmFOG_0cUaqu0gcITNHcUUzUcoBUo7GAChoLtMTD_bIqH2bCJ0 sOktUCoV.YP.H.V4DdTozcoh.RVWHGk_6zXp5cfI0kUMN5gN.EcWBMR1C3iyDWCmSTA6NgpNQbQ2 LZmXygF468kcyLKWHhnpeiO7bm0_Jw36RIaDnYkiwL1cNr9RmxajYeOfzwqGkNPgHOX2FA4iavJn XWGQo88lhBXt0VD_CsLZ94sTWvVNc2uojmR8LkXAwG2XCcgBwgu2pY.vfmHScgmLclZ6R5Eeh0PI OTYPNxB560t8ws4Tz7RWdWw_uBYf_3MwhiAL0sOYSI8_gZOqHWWjPYJk05bWRHgtdwQSLhVqYf.V .LAunMKvchVKQhUyhBNais6yoiI2rK2mYYRr8ZP.iBSeL.F6VGpwadXtAdmnO66zghyTO5heKrW2 HAJ0DvSoR4CQLAvKH.Kk2J0cgtkkp1qZA2vVsDNJWgKvWC0pr_sHkg9tiIXIZkxGAxssUb_cTFHv gAPDP6v4dL9Bw0Kd49psnPRRDt93YCLHHU9ZluhBaRvAyLUYCk_wNs4jKHC2IRbJJwp3LOnjxhNu 2ew-- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 254f8d83-fed2-4de9-9277-c2bf871100e3 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2025 22:47:47 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-7d5f4447dd-7qhsj (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 879937b112b21f5ed8f01a7053dee59f; Sat, 08 Mar 2025 22:47:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.400.131.1.6\)) Subject: Re: What happen with vm.v_* on stable? Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 14:47:35 -0800 References: <7C1A8B0F-CBF3-45F6-9EC4-56B4AE3FFD1B@yahoo.com> To: Rozhuk Ivan , freebsd-hackers In-Reply-To: <7C1A8B0F-CBF3-45F6-9EC4-56B4AE3FFD1B@yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.400.131.1.6) X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.86 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; RBL_SENDERSCORE_REPUT_9(-1.00)[98.137.65.205:from]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.958]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.40)[-0.399]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.205:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.205:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z9JFx2fj2z3Rfv X-Spamd-Bar: / On Mar 8, 2025, at 14:22, Mark Millard wrote: > Rozhuk Ivan wrote on > Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 17:14:16 UTC : >>=20 >> "vm.v_free_min", "vm.v_free_reserved", and "vm.v_free_target" sysctls = describeb in i386 notes and some FBSD docs. >> I try to tune it - see no effects. >> I look into code of 14/STABLE and fail to find code that read these = values. >=20 > I see reads of vm_cnt.v_free_min and vm_cnt.v_free_target and = m_cnt.v_free_reserved : >=20 > # grep -r -e "\" /usr/src/sys/ = | more > . . . > /usr/src/sys/contrib/openzfs/include/os/freebsd/spl/sys/kmem.h:#define = minfree vm_cnt.v_free_min > /usr/src/sys/contrib/openzfs/module/os/freebsd/zfs/arc_os.c: = zfs_arc_free_target =3D vm_cnt.v_free_target; > /usr/src/sys/contrib/openzfs/module/os/freebsd/zfs/sysctl_os.c: if = (val < minfree) > . . . > /usr/src/sys/vm/swap_pager.c: s +=3D vm_cnt.v_page_count - = vm_cnt.v_free_reserved - > . . . > /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_reserved +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_reserved; > /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_target +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_target; > /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_min +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_min; > /usr/src/sys/vm/vm_pageout.c: vm_cnt.v_free_severe +=3D = vmd->vmd_free_severe; I'll note that the +=3D vmd->vmd_free_... figures are for a memory domain, of which NUMA would means there is more than 1 domain in the system. > I see the same in both my main and my stable/14 source trees. >=20 >> It seems it only show some initial on boot values and do nothink = while OS work. >=20 > See above. I've not analyzed the code involved, however. >=20 >> Is some commits not backported from main to stable or it some = refactor artefacts? =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com