From nobody Mon Dec 8 01:34:14 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dPl134mYVz6JfqK for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:35:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers-freebsd-org952@ketas.si.pri.ee) Received: from mail.ketas.si.pri.ee (d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee [IPv6:2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dPl120Z0zz3L8v for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2025 01:35:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-hackers-freebsd-org952@ketas.si.pri.ee) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ketas.si.pri.ee header.s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096 header.b=AYiNLT76; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=ketas.si.pri.ee; 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Mon, 08 Dec 2025 03:35:12 +0200 (EET) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 03:34:14 +0200 From: Sulev-Madis Silber To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: addressable led driver User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <4DE06290-81C0-4D21-8919-5A39B1DB3949@dons.net.au> <677E3CFD-91A4-4A46-AC15-1CAD49F891F5@ketas.si.pri.ee> Message-ID: <5466CDBA-3F6C-439B-96A8-C00B81DE65EB@ketas.si.pri.ee> List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.43 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HOSTNAME_5(3.00)[d004-fea2-0bff-021e-13e8-8437-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.63)[-0.630]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ketas.si.pri.ee,reject]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ketas.si.pri.ee:s=ketas-si-pri-ee-20240416002854-4096]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:7d0:8437:1300::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; BLOCKLISTDE_FAIL(0.00)[2001:7d0:8437:13e8:21e:bff:fea2:d004:server fail,2001:7d0:8437:13c8::115:server fail]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ketas.si.pri.ee:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dPl120Z0zz3L8v ok, in the end i decided to write my own control program in perl which feed= s spi(8) i also got 2 spi buses enabled on my h3, via fdt fiddling=2E one of which = i used as that's what i have on headers on that custom dev carrier pcb of n= anopi neo core in the end i am indeed able to control addressable leds directly from embe= dded fbsd machine so i postponed to uc approach so far=2E the atmega328p got is probably too= weak for my use and maybe i need stm32* usb booting uc=2E same price sor far all work except spi(8) has no stream mode and my attempts to imple= ment it in it failed=2E i liked code quality in it, but i just don't know c= enough attempts to ioctl transfer data directly from (another) perl found hurdles= of not able to get needed constants with needed values, despite =2Eph's ex= ist and they do have them in them so i went worst approach and just run spi(8) in a row as fast as it could= =2E the perf is awful=2E the ability to get 4fps per 1000 leds is impressiv= e=2E i also had sh in loop there=2E the data generator got impressively fas= t after few optimization runs=2E some of which were also powered by chatgpt= , altho i later got better than those ideas=2E tools, right wasn't able to find much useful spi(gen) examples all attempts are in http://ketas=2Esi=2Epri=2Eee/misc/ws2812/ the code there actually works maybe someone here wants to implement constant running mode in spi(8)=2E i= don't know what spi(8) is intended to=2E probably not what i do=2E however= i imagine this stdio ipc way could also could be useful in other things th= at need constant spi comm=2E i never checked if i2c util would also need th= is=2E this could simplify usage from scripts like i do=2E maybe gpio also n= eeds that=2E i recall writing small c wrappers which watched for interrupts= on pins i found also some python code for leds under fbsd that did spigen too=2E b= ut having python also running somewhere is hmm=2E also need to somehow impl= ement stdin there so in the end i did almost accomplish my dream, wrote driver of a kind and= even fade works=2E debugging was quite easy as i could keep scp'ing files = to tmpfs and executing them From nobody Tue Dec 9 14:12:00 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQglk69sKz6KgVY for ; 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To: George Mitchell Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008d0a480645858fee" X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.87 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.966]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,none]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[asomers]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.208.53:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.208.53:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQgrq4Qpxz3fqy --0000000000008d0a480645858fee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 7:12=E2=80=AFAM George Mitchell wrote: > Apparently there's a vulnerability in Python 3.11.14, but no later 3.11 > version is even available from upstream, who clearly would prefer us to > be using 3.13 or 3.14. Should we update? Has anyone in our community > already tried this upgrade? What sorts of problems might there be? > Thanks for your help and advice. -- George > I don't know if it's the right time to upgrade. But I do know that a patched Python3.11 will probably be available soon. https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/142212 https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/142141 --0000000000008d0a480645858fee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 7:12=E2=80=AFAM George Mitch= ell <georg= e+freebsd@m5p.com> wrote:
Apparently there's a vulnerability in Python 3.11.14, = but no later 3.11
version is even available from upstream, who clearly would prefer us to
be using 3.13 or 3.14.=C2=A0 Should we update?=C2=A0 Has anyone in our comm= unity
already tried this upgrade?=C2=A0 What sorts of problems might there be? Thanks for your help and advice.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-- George
<= div>
I don't know if it's the right time to upgrade.= =C2=A0 But I do know that a patched Python3.11 will probably be available s= oon.=C2=A0

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Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:06:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vishwin@freebsd.org) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:06:18 -0500 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: George Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-GB From: Charlie Li Autocrypt: addr=vishwin@freebsd.org; keydata= xjMEaEicoBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAZBuydpjFLGem4uRJPWaYMXX2e+BN1jDhbD3tcqbxhdfN MkNoYXJsaWUgTGkgKEZyZWVCU0QgUHJvamVjdCkgPHZpc2h3aW5ARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wpkE ExYKAEEWIQTHxcCLnAXo3rFg6k7P+1cn7slqBAUCaEicoAIbAwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgAAKCRDP+1cn7slqBM/bAP9bhA4e0LxJYFYJlftZM5WHrMSPpUe6 G2pVqmQWTQ0EZQEA0PNryfH3qRWWPSI8mFNRnG24hi5/aXFqCnHj1tcJ9Q/OOARoSJygEgor BgEEAZdVAQUBAQdAUT4TzYFmV6ueIGwjX0N+445KZV6ns1Wiw67QMsJZxHkDAQgHwn4EGBYK ACYWIQTHxcCLnAXo3rFg6k7P+1cn7slqBAUCaEicoAIbDAUJCWYBgAAKCRDP+1cn7slqBPO/ AQCPuGiyyfJClICRs/ToG0MsT8YcPdBygzuUIIeGpkjJpgEA7AoFCQ0Y28Y3hIDFn2k9PH3B nGWL3g05W0ds2qoj+gQ= Organization: FreeBSD Project In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------e5T8UJLEXLEtO0o0niTWxYlv" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------e5T8UJLEXLEtO0o0niTWxYlv Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------sm5RjEODyV7c4ho60XZKyKQv"; protected-headers="v1" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:06:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: George Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-GB From: Charlie Li Autocrypt: addr=vishwin@freebsd.org; keydata= xjMEaEicoBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAZBuydpjFLGem4uRJPWaYMXX2e+BN1jDhbD3tcqbxhdfN MkNoYXJsaWUgTGkgKEZyZWVCU0QgUHJvamVjdCkgPHZpc2h3aW5ARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wpkE ExYKAEEWIQTHxcCLnAXo3rFg6k7P+1cn7slqBAUCaEicoAIbAwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgAAKCRDP+1cn7slqBM/bAP9bhA4e0LxJYFYJlftZM5WHrMSPpUe6 G2pVqmQWTQ0EZQEA0PNryfH3qRWWPSI8mFNRnG24hi5/aXFqCnHj1tcJ9Q/OOARoSJygEgor BgEEAZdVAQUBAQdAUT4TzYFmV6ueIGwjX0N+445KZV6ns1Wiw67QMsJZxHkDAQgHwn4EGBYK ACYWIQTHxcCLnAXo3rFg6k7P+1cn7slqBAUCaEicoAIbDAUJCWYBgAAKCRDP+1cn7slqBPO/ AQCPuGiyyfJClICRs/ToG0MsT8YcPdBygzuUIIeGpkjJpgEA7AoFCQ0Y28Y3hIDFn2k9PH3B nGWL3g05W0ds2qoj+gQ= Organization: FreeBSD Project In-Reply-To: --------------sm5RjEODyV7c4ho60XZKyKQv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R2VvcmdlIE1pdGNoZWxsIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBUaGFua3MhwqAgU3RpbGwgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBp biBoZWFyaW5nIGNvbnNlbnN1cyAoaWYgYW55KSBvbiB3aGV0aGVyIGl0J3MNCj4gdGltZSB0 byB1cGdyYWRlIHRoZSBkZWZhdWx0IHZlcnNpb24gLi4uwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLS0gR2VvcmdlDQozLjEzIHdpbGwgbW9zdCBsaWtl bHkgYmUgdGhlIG5leHQgREVGQVVMVF9WRVJTSU9OUyBidW1wIGF0IHRoaXMgcG9pbnQsIA0K YnV0IHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhIG51bWJlciBvZiBtYWpvciBjb25zdW1lcnMgYnJva2VuIHdpdGgg aXQuIFRoZXNlIGJ1bXBzIA0KYXJlIGEgbG90IG1vcmUgZGlmZmljdWx0IHRoYW4gd2hhdCBt ZWV0cyB0aGUgZXllLCBhbmQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGdldHRpbmcgDQptb3JlIGRpZmZpY3VsdCB3 aXRoIHRoZSB0eXBlcyBvZiBjaGFuZ2VzIHRoYXQgZXZlcnkgbmV3IG1ham9yIHZlcnNpb24g DQpicmluZ3MuDQoNCi0tIA0KQ2hhcmxpZSBMaQ0KLi4ubm9wZSwgc3RpbGwgZG9uJ3QgaGF2 ZSBhbiBleGl0IGxpbmUuDQo= --------------sm5RjEODyV7c4ho60XZKyKQv-- --------------e5T8UJLEXLEtO0o0niTWxYlv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wnsEABYIACMWIQTHxcCLnAXo3rFg6k7P+1cn7slqBAUCaThXCgUDAAAAAAAKCRDP+1cn7slqBDxA AP4rMJT2mS+iSty20FcL2V3RSHp+85V69S8Xr0UKkpMLrwEAoMT1BV86cxp1DOAbaxqSVKyPGR9Q tEIj191EuaYhpQ4= =r6HH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------e5T8UJLEXLEtO0o0niTWxYlv-- From nobody Tue Dec 9 17:25:57 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQm3r1nv6z6JDg2 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:26:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from mailhost.m5p.com (mailhost.m5p.com [74.104.188.4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "m5p.com", Issuer "R12" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQm3q6sMRz3RsH; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [IPV6:2001:470:1f07:15ff::26] (court.m5p.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:15ff:0:0:0:26]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailhost.m5p.com (8.18.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 5B9HPwxR067167 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:26:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:25:57 -0500 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US Cc: vishwin@freebsd.org From: George Mitchell Autocrypt: addr=george+freebsd@m5p.com; keydata= xjMEZaHDbxYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdA2W6oBfS8haXY0/Ft4zS1OTLYfC8EBIADPTgMQdh85C3N KEdlb3JnZSBNaXRjaGVsbCA8Z2VvcmdlK2ZyZWVic2RAbTVwLmNvbT7CmQQTFgoAQRYhBDpv v9n4+UzMLAJ8EZocD3futmd9BQJlocSiAhsDBQkFo5qABQsJCAcCAiICBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMB Ah4HAheAAAoJEJocD3futmd9SxwBAJUi6DNdVhWCZBTv5XGy1g0JgApLWe/3S0M0zz9sn7/L AQCcJcV5k5s2rt9J5C1AUm6XVsuneVvIWXO5j1GKWk0NC844BGWhw28SCisGAQQBl1UBBQEB B0AaFz/6B95RRvjOdLZr5fSdhuIHvwr24H3ePDZSw6wlUwMBCAfCfgQYFgoAJhYhBDpvv9n4 +UzMLAJ8EZocD3futmd9BQJlocNvAhsMBQkFo5qAAAoJEJocD3futmd9RXsBANwRD9RE56F6 /jeZOrujHICLcgPiOt50Y6866v9OUTjUAP9GlC1aopfBpNwuPLJBam7oBaGqvY98VDhzOjoT 7DNbCQ== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------4EISjPrCFurXXcOh7gs2ivsn" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on mattapan.m5p.com X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd]; ASN(0.00)[asn:701, ipnet:74.104.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQm3q6sMRz3RsH This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------4EISjPrCFurXXcOh7gs2ivsn Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------LBnRPJRM9kYTOi2t1TfUIl6a"; protected-headers="v1" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:25:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? 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Tue, 09 Dec 2025 10:00:54 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Antoine Brodin Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 19:00:42 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2rTjFy3cW3Wk7gNvgLKeyNQgLlA-rKLfEgEEAiPev9ru3pQIGIG8bfkCcg Message-ID: Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: Charlie Li Cc: George Mitchell , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQmqW2bP5z3ZJd On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 6:06=E2=80=AFPM Charlie Li wro= te: > > George Mitchell wrote: > > Thanks! Still interested in hearing consensus (if any) on whether it's > > time to upgrade the default version ... -- George > 3.13 will most likely be the next DEFAULT_VERSIONS bump at this point, > but there are a number of major consumers broken with it. These bumps > are a lot more difficult than what meets the eye, and have been getting > more difficult with the types of changes that every new major version > brings. Hello, With my exp-run hat, this is not a good idea to jump from 3.11 to 3.13, last time it took more than 1 year to complete the exp-run , while going from 3.11 to 3.12 would require a few weeks / months Antoine From nobody Tue Dec 9 18:36:44 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQndG6pwLz6JbX3 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 18:37:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-yx1-xb12c.google.com (mail-yx1-xb12c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b12c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQndG1f66z3f0S for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 18:37:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=Ko+q6Mbd; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b12c) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info Received: by mail-yx1-xb12c.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6442e2dd8bbso4884600d50.0 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 10:37:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; t=1765305420; x=1765910220; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=02yXm3OVAwMi2RcUOTSOqbOnuO1TAcAgoSnNyrIwaRQ=; b=Ko+q6MbdUMScfAfeHt5bceH4KhPOvCEA1zTzcQeUU+YGUStyYqvKMQseeizn3TbWI/ FllN5qgfR8AtNtz2NQ2AIMWSfzTJalY//qoaNpgFUWU9hKB53FZlgsI0sBug8qE4P4Rf T2zOU5zoI21LE49jmABlgxdFh9K4dpeFb7J/83G0GvHBwLCCIO707jgB27Rf6toY6gOa ttUY2TtNTvHufV3alQF4JEt6W82pcABrYimjo2tbp2zeawJQXEH+vezVsukc9iZA+M4P ro1NBilnwRczTikO1Ub9xtbuughLmKk+QAgqs6zoiDYP94Zgec5Bz5IekFAXUZN+KX5e s2OA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765305420; x=1765910220; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=02yXm3OVAwMi2RcUOTSOqbOnuO1TAcAgoSnNyrIwaRQ=; b=k816hyq9xqvzRuZTQN+MPgOl1qyfOAn46VcDY/13WGP1sgGbHleGnC/beeRmB/24wr uwofHACVYXT9YE0ytSoo8eKoFvd7l93N1coDpcUv7aBmKpvLFwknQ9BNqPol1sVeKuZ4 I8Oydckf+COcDGpQneQ3BiB7IOGPOONV0zrHl8JeotELIYtFnZtpjKtA65lSaM/LNu0j BfHYxV8g9CYhOUMkCJKlTtWCSI6PerrbSZKABiBj1JBQyeL/+e2KofINIKb17nfb/YGE EySiQWDjLwZ0rMDBnMk5ZQ/PZDQ8ZoIrNsssb0Nq/kXndfch34NsVb29QrlJVqAUsSwm LlqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx6aKLXM6RK1h6C4MN3E06Ejf3/S8dJFM1W6mALaOENfffktwzW LJ7kt3oN8Lka8sOAqs/t6Q3BPSd5Sid0rKxrRfT9BAb/+LdaCp8HWexd9+QkZbO5n+OzsjUMRGS xwus= X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX7HYxDAW4ZfT2xqrjOsdlOj8hHlnVfbhxA8JwM9c/hBC+t0iFc+SLkBNq1qw+Q QDiZrnwVjmv8Zo/G2AM3b4fudIl7AT3iKslOX7BCtTWS/F0O9XIc3dNfERQInQ8kH4Ug4p6MGTi A6+2n5WLFNDtk1eAuZgMGBqVkVV5+80JUcZ2NpNQZA7dYw0w1zOnM74J/nS2OizrKhzbnB6VgiX NXVc70X94ItXPX9qaYEWb63seWPjLrd1C5u7IxLVRN8NVTkVn2J83VJIKpyTaJWxjIAZukHepXq bQmRMIZ91728K9tjdyxaYZm0dmJrfHaH6XG1EcyVuCLO/AXwXMOGSrBd2l9QYEcN3aCIV2H25rM 09E77T+2SFZDzTTc6ypXvmf/juj2YP6GHb6p43rZXEGD8XPTYH197U2W254GWSh5gGNsg99b73t w+zhGRPhV4EO+Arkc3lYFnrndPUaojooL4EvvyY5x1wbXPzCU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHlCZlrx/nB/XS8qnqWlRhC2x/UQfb69cS5daLeOJ7xmKb5zvpOsRL7baYsUTTC+bNz/gez7A== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:13cb:b0:644:60d9:750c with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-64460d97726mr4787909d50.92.1765305420078; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 10:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw1-f172.google.com (mail-yw1-f172.google.com. [209.85.128.172]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 956f58d0204a3-6443f2abfd4sm6794487d50.5.2025.12.09.10.36.58 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Dec 2025 10:36:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yw1-f172.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78a76afeff6so67845147b3.0 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 10:36:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:74c9:b0:787:d2ee:e2d6 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78c33c16432mr118053537b3.34.1765305418267; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 10:36:58 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 19:36:44 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2q754nb1r-YO5-o-kGJ9Cc6AZdsJNGWOvMfFfe4XD9AxjrvbtpSU2nc5RU Message-ID: Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: George Mitchell Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.28 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.984]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::b12c:from,209.85.128.172:received]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQndG1f66z3f0S On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 3:12=E2=80=AFPM George Mitchell wrote: > Apparently there's a vulnerability in Python 3.11.14, but no later 3.11 > version is even available from upstream, who clearly would prefer us to > be using 3.13 or 3.14. Should we update? Has anyone in our community > already tried this upgrade? What sorts of problems might there be? > Thanks for your help and advice. -- George 3.14 sounds cool as a number, but Python became self-incompatible monstrum, unfortunately, just like most of the "modern" software tools. I stick to 3.11 on 14.3-RELEASE for now. It should get security updates until 2027-10. I can see Python 3.10, 3.11, 3.12, 3.13, 3.14 interpreters available to install (with most packages built for py311). I work mostly in venv so I need to build most of the packages myself anyways. I know there will be huge maintenance problems no matter what next version is chosen and I will follow wiser crowd here. Looking at https://devguide.python.org/versions/ 3.11: 2022-20-24 -> 2027-10. 3.13: 2024-10-07 -> 2029-10. 3.14: 2025-10-07 -> 2030-10. 3.14 may be a good choice for CURRENT? ;-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From nobody Tue Dec 9 19:06:12 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQpGt6lT3z6Jdh9; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mandree@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQpGt68DNz3hM2; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mandree@FreeBSD.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765307174; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=DBxC/69L5BxN1yj/47DEEdd6/Cusmrbw483Y0FthwPs=; b=oBmOI+WJHug2EF2KEqtw1ZUyyqlrH+Ubkq1S3mhOSPu/RF7J2a0kPnqMYWCWXvSxxJGi29 TmRAZVJyeTRjIsWnkoWxXYckjJlWjHL2zEYyZsEfQ+7PcRMt4JZI+Gu/pgVACnHP/ojm5j Wgnp4JdaZhhPPPBfnG/nGC3qH2Dn3UAAQP3k8b36ml1lS1iWfNLwBzXDpvImiY0nLByxi0 wAgoEGbq7xVPiwevoEXPRF/APkZdXKWSv+tGmYMN8NYg4VtsB6jbUsymgr0rsBT51fF4c8 wC5iDwLbXFulv9IyqqP/EDqJY9JPSjfVXYxYfg3Alj9jJrORXz4wetqu5oAa9g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765307174; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=DBxC/69L5BxN1yj/47DEEdd6/Cusmrbw483Y0FthwPs=; b=lTGlbHOfmNTpq4Hy/sHBalF2WLmlBHN56DfELN1xImxRFk5AkxwTQUlCfr5ieIsIRYcgDY ft8Cwr9JGW3vIRhbrR+8LlFlehrzJrZfVsRYPR5U4WxVsl34dSa1p2yneYU6AGJh2XYwMP WALLYgwkXy/kttQiqxje6K8p9jLmTNvi+2l+q/8GKAwHNsI2rl2pNufbaPN2rUGL0WE1gc M63Clp9/jgIwc3OGY2o0L+liV4Z5hHuEFw34mUGfvfF+2sDPTHK2bnQooehLD9fsOHgvGG SKKVnaSil6AQlgQEvB3LSqApQGW1+oOR694N5qVHrjwmDrhl7gxL7+6vNSqzDw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765307174; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=owQLkt5AfuZzCfPihDP3j8AycRfVbXD+dKDtGtpnDnFsUY704ZRofan2EIUncWV3iZJu7d eq3lQKnOpxofWR8Awm/YyEIYIYbCCF9tbgmzYZAV78OM1ET9oTDEVCm/benEDmNJLF15JF NH7nvj+90PiM2R1JEqc0lroP1tBfHAZqXK/pmoJ4PdCzcd12YOrUuA9TnRrFpGceU5oBsV on2rDsNKFb46xI2XYDDJcOZxEbJ/UMJF2qa6/UoVCcJ2n5YDsjPhwt8sL9I5LIZiqu0VXy /Wnnkseq1WfSq6EBpfitRkOUAdmEd8icAXGZk6LMkXYLvYJ8H/n3kQa2ZqpQAQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from geo33.an3e.de (p200300d027014900329c23fffe3f7574.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [IPv6:2003:d0:2701:4900:329c:23ff:fe3f:7574]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: mandree/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dQpGt4dkHzmJf; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:06:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mandree@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ryzen.an3e.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BD83C84092; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 20:06:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <04980a0c-453d-4a1e-a314-144e82f5b65c@FreeBSD.org> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 20:06:12 +0100 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: From: Matthias Andree Content-Language: en-US, fr-FR, en-GB, de-DE, nl-NL, nl-BE, fr-CH, fr-BE, de-AT Cc: core , portmgr , python Autocrypt: addr=mandree@FreeBSD.org; keydata= xsFNBFXwq5cBEADQxc9JeK4yqt1BX5tOMfzyIfEyBWXix0xqeAA/HQ2wd31NFcGFEbAevDsG oO7UcYQji1Gj/TggmclV37SHPDE++bU7O6Wur57FfTsVCmS6XjHj/n2qXgxrWtU7Fv9YOBz/ wNge3sGAh2xbwh5dTt+Ew6TbuMbwXNonb4WUCo6yFMrDd2vg9RqcVSDpdLFO0JI9hNGLQDtH P2TbBfGj8V5qz9NFiGzRxmmFhMzqOSDCEs9uanr3TCLq7yZFTyAmXDCZuyFhxGwHDo6jB+9L bIprA/oH0uFol899hiIrZRm7kIAYsOSvp84x0XBFvSMoDY4ZA4Ucv3xk+aDqob0V5F4+W3Vg 7bdlpbAuwov944Zawbm/sBGctNbfNeWjc+L7F43PbghzCfk6aLH0LwH3lNiu76F57lJqfTCn kBd0V0dUZ0/AJFskZu+aO/dCVkbfjotXDqsh55kBrSMsRX/rqt2d43q6o9AyWu5aMqLAG2ZN 19qLu/a1vzbMEfRaimlFSo9LMY1jf5TcUc7mNlPDhm8c6o+Ivx/D0tSQ4V+3SqbroYgHo1A4 Qyiau4sEP2YFtKbdRdpaN7WsdfdaZmrd9xa5lvp/gQZEdpLPzL0aBDEeUzaL/nee/EDQUbPu SYJCmDNyqxs/Y4j0ZGQmIPT1CY34AvdjIcLuT/BG1JZaIlKQ9QARAQABzSVNYXR0aGlhcyBB bmRyZWUgPG1hbmRyZWVARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wsGUBBMBCgA+AhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYC AwEAAh4BAheAFiEE3EplW9mTzUhx+oIQ5BKxVu/zhVoFAmZEAJgFCRX2730ACgkQ5BKxVu/z hVp5Ig/8C3FGHJAwtw0hWybIa1U7OcHdkvmOURM00rho942sTYRrUbwAdLsnW2YGzvhuwfIO EQWYfRfEsjJzCkErx+wtgBbdp3yuKU4BuyokOP27j2NLJjDVW4yBocbNLT/cegHQd5beKEVf Zk7zxFG6BX20xcc1e6um41QTkWQrvCyrkp+8QBvwLY9wjfAYqjkBpCTNNcSxxmlxPwnD+9zH ykJ9klLNQsS7T60byQvKoTIWWo/2hTGwaD0S5kiNDOvgGu/6LIxoOxU45XNDUmYRAiz7rd+w acxKRccl+wYmdAE7UuoDYCNogR6N6d9knOMY5zcrXTi2GkQmbYbLU2aDQNXrW521a+gZmuWb TK++MTS/pX/suescj6klRYk9tqVNgd1ixNVdo9RZotynMqos0l4WHEQjETSn9bclXavhzPkx hcATlpFO3bglAR4eIYBgWx6bAs2kxRrDeAh1AU1XCOngeTfS6BPQB463bgJx8YsMkACYgCnG yMhuqVeb9HguK4lUcM43I3ISbE7Amka+xpS8QHRukH+ZmxBiopzheQml8CY0qoz/cxRIcQZd gSkQJ3b51UhXgsvNRLmj9yVkP+mvQ8ydWEVnUH6hHhehDq2ojt2cxNEbM9LcZcAUvEwSF0IR NldTfsZ9WBCeY1OJqHoD1EBNpltjKa+hSUDXFt2R5DzOwU0EVfCrlwEQANcm7Ryn0O8lXqbl m756GabmqMTOsgikq65vzFZ8bsZOUfZg1bQRkDG6gzw8mVqpAxSnbZCTupEv1mR+rtxLVujr s+LODABBydwYv//Aj4U2/yqoYGko3Cf0zN8GUS5autz6P2XgIUScApOq+PGy/hs5xKW2GuXn ADbukpqdSweBaC5zCTiUB3VDpZNuuXHEBIMG746YxisJ7NwgXFAZ2cybupJQLC3ITHoTQIpe BfkdLZAq1XX+k8tKwiSIEZvaH/5q/zMWvbNSEFXHGao/F3t+JZq4ZZVRgM0jn27ZfZrSI0sG JFBP5jf+niwQgFe/4PdoidRYdDT9WAMVoSVz85mPaW7/LfRR3vu0h9pNIE/otC2ZxvlPdXO0 ng6337RG/DlUiMCSKz4k7soBnqflMhb7u+QgL7Tiq44yaw7l/n/VejQ0WjMsEKufxk3nwZhH YSgHHrQ8yMMVTUyy8grtIOEPdt/gLYWdXYfZAKnQXhMf4aFVpuLsUbLnRVZyojjhAwj8gfin haq38Vzx15UYLxgLx/o5wrocFq32JB9IDwuWFfdG2dRuXgMGXDgL4Rx9lKPPjmvhjdqH2XTt n6WshfBR3KmoYDWG+F4yhok1sWU1G/FgdjRRh55hrz/a2GgEPyZEmylK6tpB1friYmkGFkCv 2O6UkqJyrJOBREpm6U1LABEBAAHCwXwEGAEKACYCGwwWIQTcSmVb2ZPNSHH6ghDkErFW7/OF WgUCZkQAtwUJFfbvoAAKCRDkErFW7/OFWsM+EACzYazhIR3zPhFU7pkPlOaSkgObA8HtklXN jc2D2DHM9dV5FVkx6BW0dqzMYP13ATYePrlp9McFB+1MxAe6WObDbRr3CqFmie4vbxnnJS8K 1SDy/yyovyA05cXIC9YZtdIlplD6PQFxtiN6j3gArDkfiJ89jwIMj4wou0y7P6Nu2CGdC1/a y4jjIqb5e8L37TOgsBrxYlZkYTzxZHT0E10AF2OtkXwN1rzVuJ0wV/8HnrrXA+ZdfjWbFZTo 1PGez8ODlbMhm36AeL8W+PeBnTttGC7ibHC9gIlIiCTI7GrAv2IwE5d+2MXdx10df34ahZky AxAzGhvm/KB1ADKNHUwRXCkon4l19LTlYpUOpqE4u6z0FisK6icZSHkuvMBitw9//mL1hmOK omzpMnhh31Jyihsv0a2MyzRQKmeMfXh5agVl0/QWgoJytgEcsAvvOrCedXssEzzdoZv+m9wE VYglslSWVR9TTP1X4ftL86S9gdZcIOLygbzJAttJI0MZ6+XbIhkPSonnfqCtSwwMC9mqTXFO elgFGe16RedBTORI3KB0JVSuoswtS1kS3vwFg2fwykd5YzDusMNe2UnUqSBa6ZrMvk4pd5tZ a9f2Xh3V3DkOuUlBVzGFNj0kdU28JwIBWqi/2tHz0OORk/9+IteGPWYxG0vXoIhRiKbehs+J zQ== Organization: FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [Including core@ because there is a specific arrangement to invoke them on situations like this.] Am 09.12.25 um 19:00 schrieb Antoine Brodin: > On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 6:06 PM Charlie Li wrote: >> >> George Mitchell wrote: >>> Thanks! Still interested in hearing consensus (if any) on whether it's >>> time to upgrade the default version ... -- George >> 3.13 will most likely be the next DEFAULT_VERSIONS bump at this point, >> but there are a number of major consumers broken with it. These bumps >> are a lot more difficult than what meets the eye, and have been getting >> more difficult with the types of changes that every new major version >> brings. > > Hello, > > With my exp-run hat, this is not a good idea to jump from 3.11 to > 3.13, last time it took more than 1 year to complete the exp-run , > while going from 3.11 to 3.12 would require a few weeks / months Thanks for sharing that bad experience. We've been unable to manage Python 3.13 until I pushed 3.14 into the tree before 3.13 landed, and we've been unable to make 3.12 the default Python before it went from "bugfix support" life^W "security support only" (where limitation to source releases isn't disturbing for FreeBSD). If things turn out bad, we need to leave some consumers behind and move forward; in the interim, the backported fixes should be applied or we upgrade to a point release if AND ONLY IF it's really imminent. It does not make sense to waste brain or CPU cycles from the EOL 3.11 to the EOL 3.12, and it also does not make sense to waste brain or CPU cycles on getting a 100% collection if it's unfeasible. So my take is try to fix as much as possible for three weeks, putting the word out as a call for help (coordinate through the Wiki if needed) then move before 2026Q1 branches, marking everything BROKEN and DEPRECATED that doesn't work by then, and end of January everything that's still broken with 3.13 or 3.14 gets EXPIRATION_DATE=2026-03-31 so it doesn't appear in 2026Q2. I am aware some ports will NOT work with 3.14 made the default because we'd enter a bootstrapping circular dependency for now, but I hear python@ seem to be wanting to make 3.13 (N-1) the default. We can't let the museum of py-* ports hog the entire Python stuff in the the ports tree down. We've eaten enough shit for our Python situation already, it's tainting our reputation and we need to get our act together. If someone proposes otherwise, get the backport patches from the upstream repo in within the week for 3.12 and 3.11 and possibly either forbid 3.10 or fix it too. We might want to change policies though and push for Python 3.15 more aggressively and make that the default in December 2026 with the bimonthly regular 3.15.X release (likely 3.15.1 unless they need to expedite security fixes as this year with 3.14.2). -- Matthias Andree FreeBSD ports committer From nobody Tue Dec 9 19:42:17 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dQq5G0tw8z6Jh9W for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:42:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vishwin@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dQq5G0Lqlz3pnb; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:42:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vishwin@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765309378; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=7MZFOjUsWHsHJWA5psPLbhwws1j+KQwOJZQqGKg0heA=; b=fFLmijRfLmwvjs+CXovC/5Gng2jbya+GnnHYypr2ue94y9HmasocstPrPR4e99Cn7yEJya RsZxDc5nD920GKMiDqwnlf/9HcDTh5aevko83A1XSa1lEXbFpp3B9hp3h1DQ+dXqqH2IVt nf70qQQrhkRzJZa687QZT7mC4SatdNVx3/K1T85cSFSJrKlwW319qmXh1nZrnFkr7LycSy w9BMT1G/TBs1+t80b7DiUO4f3Ea/JvPgi5xmJJEQmd3WlXX5Y+FrG730FElLESjSCnm6mD AZ2UbOL7b6Yn6Vf2NzLI5sPszr3ym87NrvvRFCvFHyx1jiUFcFB/q4GoXzm0wA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765309378; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=7MZFOjUsWHsHJWA5psPLbhwws1j+KQwOJZQqGKg0heA=; b=Vv2PPEWCY/xhxJZveab0oTTTXIkWYriO69rU606d+9HarQBfjdDp7ZQDb/muacZJm3ZmHf +Od2J1QvLNVodrumU0P6aW4CCzdQTuY50I94m4mg4M4ao9n+cLAH/16H4E4pQmgfGFC0y3 9U2+LpVbrw/l45wX9YkNk94rPUmp0t6fTYhj4dwL5dQAMOOgBDXDB0I2GgrbOrUpn8DNNk njLD2+s5TXgcts8oanttB4uc8Wlf9sPs+3LkOarFEGRTn8cqHk5+kvnxLvp9DrKo8gokv5 zzocsIsc/XUwVX8sReAESfYDK9Mp4FCxNAXTSMFfA1TUo9n8nlu0rvKtgRjgOQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765309378; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YYG+xMmvzLKJtQRGz3m9NPoXAY4If6tauPC40kq5kjmKlXqqDFaQNqDq6yiDwCPCwLky26 0lCB/Jd9r20kPO/iulB9b6XPNk2rj+PvuH6XwNGAmPY9sR/uReh7knKh1ceg4H/ZJC2K3Y IkTFxfbcYMcvd/O+3c+kbxm8XhrWEptxtVmjN1NdPJvp9wV1NX5GGfgNNoQ9yEorQRmcs1 bHLDu/KpDldl2846M1gxnGFKa2+vtwGNwgWCT8amKA1q80mQWHcGTpLMXPhBrWWQogJrLf Tm4d8CohqVFFgSZlIn5BaQX20iwQtaJVR8TCzJgMrLVlUQJhCzUQ2pdm/y0VDA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [IPV6:2601:98a:d00:c180:2e0:4dff:fe71:93a1] (unknown [IPv6:2601:98a:d00:c180:2e0:4dff:fe71:93a1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: vishwin/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dQq5F5zjlzmcw; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 19:42:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vishwin@freebsd.org) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 14:42:17 -0500 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: Tomek CEDRO , George Mitchell Cc: FreeBSD Hackers References: Content-Language: en-US From: Charlie Li Autocrypt: addr=vishwin@freebsd.org; keydata= xjMEaEicoBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAZBuydpjFLGem4uRJPWaYMXX2e+BN1jDhbD3tcqbxhdfN MkNoYXJsaWUgTGkgKEZyZWVCU0QgUHJvamVjdCkgPHZpc2h3aW5ARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wpkE ExYKAEEWIQTHxcCLnAXo3rFg6k7P+1cn7slqBAUCaEicoAIbAwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgAAKCRDP+1cn7slqBM/bAP9bhA4e0LxJYFYJlftZM5WHrMSPpUe6 G2pVqmQWTQ0EZQEA0PNryfH3qRWWPSI8mFNRnG24hi5/aXFqCnHj1tcJ9Q/OOARoSJygEgor BgEEAZdVAQUBAQdAUT4TzYFmV6ueIGwjX0N+445KZV6ns1Wiw67QMsJZxHkDAQgHwn4EGBYK ACYWIQTHxcCLnAXo3rFg6k7P+1cn7slqBAUCaEicoAIbDAUJCWYBgAAKCRDP+1cn7slqBPO/ AQCPuGiyyfJClICRs/ToG0MsT8YcPdBygzuUIIeGpkjJpgEA7AoFCQ0Y28Y3hIDFn2k9PH3B nGWL3g05W0ds2qoj+gQ= Organization: FreeBSD Project In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------ZQpGVa2iURkT3wue66w4WT6g" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------ZQpGVa2iURkT3wue66w4WT6g Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------00hTowgZ8NZvFvUagOSmsD2P"; protected-headers="v1" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 14:42:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? 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[209.85.128.180]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-78c1b4e574fsm62867587b3.24.2025.12.09.12.43.01 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Dec 2025 12:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yw1-f180.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-787eb2d8663so3749087b3.0 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 12:43:01 -0800 (PST) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVAsZk5MyGR+C3yxsILeII6LZfvfepM+XaYqj+xqANMq62nAEgMHNtYYcCDxX/jJ1iBGsBn/sdCU9pqZi4B/40=@freebsd.org X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6089:b0:783:7768:55e6 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78c606a313fmr27965307b3.13.1765312981422; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 12:43:01 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 21:42:49 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2p0tGWboHIA_emSmC6t2e8nQ50C6lX8Z-MEtVmzW0uRBv5QJ5_5PaAksos Message-ID: Subject: Re: Time to update default Python version? To: Charlie Li Cc: George Mitchell , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dQrQh3HZVz46xP On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 8:43=E2=80=AFPM Charlie Li wrote: > Tomek CEDRO wrote: > > 3.14 may be a good choice for CURRENT? ;-) > > > We don't segregate default Python version by base system version. 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Wed, 10 Dec 2025 00:41:22 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Nakayama Kenjiro Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 17:41:12 +0900 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2r6kr6jJXQFmBho-ct-KYvgoAcXQGG6rFEx7lgGgNH6Whx0lzhMdxJTgBQ Message-ID: Subject: compile time detection of function signature mismatches To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000384dc3064594fec9" X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.994]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::634:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dR8MZ5KrLz3Jmp --000000000000384dc3064594fec9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, About a year ago, the issue described in https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=282870 was fixed. The problem was a function signature mismatch in `rtnl_handle_iflink()`. Specifically: - the handler type for ifnet_link_event expects 3 arguments - but the registered function rtnl_handle_iflink() only took 2 arguments This mismatch resulted in undefined behavior at runtime, but it was not detected by any clang/gcc warnings as far as I know. I am wondering whether there is a way to detect this kind of function signature mismatch in EVENTHANDLER registrations at compile time. I tested several compiler options, such as `-Wcast-function-type-mismatch`, but none of them were able to detect the issue. Are there any good ways to catch EVENTHANDLER signature mismatches during compilation? I would appreciate any insight or suggestions. Regards, Kenjiro --000000000000384dc3064594fec9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

About a year ago, the issue described i= n ht= tps://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D282870
was fixed. = The problem was a function signature mismatch in `rtnl_handle_iflink()`.
Specifically:
- the handler type for ifnet_link_event ex= pects 3 arguments
- but the registered function rtnl_handle_iflink() onl= y took 2 arguments

This mismatch resulted in undefined behavior at r= untime, but it was not
detected by any clang/gcc warnings as far as I kn= ow.

I am wondering whether there is a way to detect this kind of fun= ction signature mismatch in
EVENTHANDLER registrations at compile time.<= br>I tested several compiler options, such as `-Wcast-function-type-mismatc= h`,
but none of them were able to detect the issue.

Are there any= good ways to catch EVENTHANDLER signature mismatches during compilation?I would appreciate any insight or suggestions.

Regards,
Kenjiro=
--000000000000384dc3064594fec9-- From nobody Thu Dec 11 18:13:27 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dS11F55z8z6K8ZT for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:13:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-c2p-570110.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-c2p-570110.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fd00:56::b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dS11D27VNz3CPr for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:13:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=comcast.net header.s=20190202a header.b=FlQ0o9Iz; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=comcast.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kargls@comcast.net designates 2001:558:fd00:56::b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kargls@comcast.net Received: from resomta-c2p-555920.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.18.227]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-c2p-570110.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id TkOlvTcmegF7MTlAPv7gCl; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:13:29 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1765476809; bh=8q09mPJLu7Z7PDd6qwdC2DI0oFitaU4ieg5/kZpzbb0=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject: Content-Type:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=FlQ0o9IziddO560fYFbFqoOSGxXZNxsAdWjZgM1r2aYQrLxzSSs//HEVQyCQBGrpz MGVB4c5HSw1tVdUqzHpz3bhS8Rpd57md+v+aBFJaNdwKySQo2qP0F4S63hLlh5vR7s 86k82UxS7QqgjgpifiKnphc34Qy5YnGlwh6w2ivI2PZbDHjlC5aameCqWLVXyT+1A2 k7jmkUhdF0ZieACNEeXLl+QSFzYOGfk/fIDhS2R7EQ5cpvI+C82cO0KZE/mXRRLlqD rG1PA0kGjBxpMRcehRZJiXBTCTcE8zmr2YnbBA4DMu/v4sqVcqketukfW6+0oLZxrF 0e6zMmVWh66Cw== Received: from [10.0.0.30] ([73.97.237.216]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-c2p-555920.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id TlANviGwcV7xaTlAOvScS7; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:13:29 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 10:13:27 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: Steve Kargl Subject: profiling a user executable? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfA5YM0NS0ZLDjmjdCkntZGNptrbuRKY8wkD8cYUHGOFCSPFjZgBoWfnOSQM35d+ANZeJbtkLZeuJ7yhOY6OMOUn872Q9pNx+nmSgT69G6kPV9B7waDad zto304DW886WxzT+5FSh+t5/Ujo7qutF5lmCf2HYtipOv7+DwGjfaWKVlCGmpmhylyd4a2zrFs9XKw== X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.03 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HELO_5(3.00)[resqmta-c2p-570110.sys.comcast.net]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.975]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[comcast.net,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[comcast.net:s=20190202a]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:558:fd00:56::/64]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[comcast.net]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:2001:558::/29, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[comcast.net]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[comcast.net:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[comcast.net:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dS11D27VNz3CPr In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to the compilers options to generate profiling information, which could be consumed by gprof(1). FreeBSD stopped shipping libc_p.a, libm_p.m, etc (disabled in fe52b7f60ef4 and deleted in 3750ccefb8). This breaks all lang/gcc* ports if one uses '-pg'. It is not too difficult to fix lang/gcc* to avoid the missing *_p.a files, but this seems to lead to invalid *.gmon files. At least, for a Fortran application that I would like to profile (compiled with gfortran), procedures in my libfoo_p.a, appear in the profile, which I know with 100% certainty are not referenced. So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, profile an executable? A google search suggests pmcstat(8) may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage message printed to the terminal. I'm simply trying to determine where my code is spending all of its time. -- steve From nobody Thu Dec 11 19:50:50 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dS39b3cKyz6KGMG for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 19:50:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf2718@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x331.google.com (mail-wm1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dS39Z3Tgbz3QQ6 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 19:50:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulf2718@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=fqsK8Q71; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paulf2718@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::331 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paulf2718@gmail.com Received: by mail-wm1-x331.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-47789cd2083so3257345e9.2 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:50:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765482652; x=1766087452; darn=freebsd.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EqDoGKw4CgsWnn3/vxjS/eLM93VdaLtK/rBB2DNbQGE=; b=fqsK8Q71FR6pUi+5Lw8Cmi01+rMNlvRwTJhlDhKOGBpgPqADPzMh2rDs46A9wwuAT1 kwGqJczrCEgqGgyfUDb4m3aP+zUuaNjnG1d3AI5UFqNi1ISuXDOrbx7DZnc5HhJNWa5L YAWX3T3AjO9abks9cLDWvNDpkom4ZD9/qwIekPrvIsoQ5V4aqQMzwadIJVUYGRpCXdfk qzTeQIYM4AALxAp1jn+WDNlMDN+rNUYsAaYumnasUKQDXZbLJ9AOpypVfGLTodw7lvcT h88znombsf/p/V0GZSFxM1N1GJaY9HSkr11lCd2MCIUYJaR35lF+HwSv7ICe4etbWMzB pd2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765482652; x=1766087452; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=EqDoGKw4CgsWnn3/vxjS/eLM93VdaLtK/rBB2DNbQGE=; b=mlIchdKcaHefpS2TViVNPCSN8/UNEtA5seD69hh4OBt5JCOAKUIcrRkgD+wyTl/Kyl MM3JifaN8OlwbtSQigQAGqAZgJ8cn+pvvOu03dG7QuNDDWhyJTG+HKyDIXTN78Qr1TUD opN1Q8d3hABtPHdzvI2oHHTQ9z1LfosEIxbOiozALta9F6rcY861QPK7YGS3d6wdZNHV ifqHxCJ9bxtoYhgNpmB3u5cNwjV+Qk9cNBehqVpecdts/LEkZF0DPawczLadaXMR6umZ ArVBeG2uKg83c6N1kiPa6kukWoLrEpuwQN1a0xdNUfdcSF18e2rPe6Ib6mJtfTADrWWj FyJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx2sCF+Y/xQ/pWL4FmRqfOrMOzwy0dEHCCPxNPBNoYqagB+c1vr q9YCZwqXid5i3Zkwc1ub3l5EIwUn/jlepUjRgcKNho3NSSohknADi3+OJSqiMA== X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX7/HQGmmDugIRBQL8bEy+Aft2isfyXPx1eo7975AKZdWC6AeD1M0LJ8M2OnXgY H7e+znbh3gvqK/X6TRk5rbyVnJbYeuwWVF1m8OUTy3++PJW5oNqiaNvvEng2e3MhdUyklXOr9kL JXGdjxfrBMb4KLeAp552F1NqywF03jcgv0VUavlbxft+3oLCb2vsiuLqQlL8wHgOf/PgXv+p7wL cqeV+R+LqkdZ52Zte50AwZVLplJUXCmoM2Se8e32QJypaHl+WzhYEo9d7dwBN5T+5n9aEmVk2xc GMSyQYLpusdkSecYA/JOQvuducslDyX5EWH9whhtcBao/CdRUkm7Go46S0u/Pm/XOIlQa1sr9ch DPTtN/rv+PBDT0vZc+uc4pfUWnDggWOwPcgjKTInTCJy/HJZjiw/d44asZl7m5TkEDCsUzouzOx 15BDTfxPWo2TrDYMrYeH3vELAb97yqRA73x9DmCbGBB/WByYkpfcQltg8+ErM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHKQFNPjL4zjJikAra0VCRQK6nmWHVimXvrVvJWX8Zsgl1DwFWiidaufbPw8cQpr2NLHa3/hQ== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cd19:0:b0:477:54cd:200a with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-47a85d461d8mr45715235e9.6.1765482651957; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPV6:2a01:cb15:8545:7700:62cf:84ff:fe81:caec? ([2a01:cb15:8545:7700:62cf:84ff:fe81:caec]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-47a89ed69bbsm18457765e9.13.2025.12.11.11.50.51 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Dec 2025 11:50:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 20:50:50 +0100 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Paul Floyd In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.62 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.989]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.63)[-0.630]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::331:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dS39Z3Tgbz3QQ6 On 2025-12-11 19:13, Steve Kargl wrote: > In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to > the compilers options to generate profiling information, > which could be consumed by gprof(1). ... > So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, > profile an executable?  A google search suggests pmcstat(8) > may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage > message printed to the terminal.  I'm simply trying to > determine where my code is spending all of its time. Possibly the reason that gprof was removed is that it is now obsolete and has been replaced by gprofng (at least in the GCC world). gprofng is derived from the old Sun compiler profiling tools https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/gprofng-the-next-generation-gnu-profiling-tool. Has there been any effort to port that to FreeBSD? I can't see any mention on freshports. My recommendations are 1. Persist with pmcstat. I found it hard to use as well. If you want to use PCMs it's the only one 2. Use Google Perftools. You'll need to install the port and link with lib tcmallloc. 3. Use Valgrind callgrind/cachegrind. They are rather slow and do not accurately model modern CPU speculative execution/branch prediction/cache architecture. For 2 and 3 you are likely to want to use kcachegrind to view the results. Google Perftools can output in other formats. If you are interested in heap profiling as well, look at a) heaptrack b) Valgrind massif (slow but handles difficult cases that heaptrack can't cope with) c) Valgrind DHAT (slow and a bit hard to interpret the results but I fond that it gives plenty of interesting data on heap access patterns). A+ Paul From nobody Thu Dec 11 20:17:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dS3my33m2z6KJ3K for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 20:18:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dS3mx65z0z3T9n for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 20:18:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bakul@iitbombay.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-7d481452588so57663b3a.3 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:18:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay.org; s=google; t=1765484287; x=1766089087; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=vSOFDwHnNnoJttrJPfoKS2t2/vvkqzfMwodIU+db6WE=; b=X5o00IbECzHuhaIQLjC64dsdaB7ZcT3vWMc2vx57gXY0tPhA7D8bsPtPc7rjNMGUiZ HaoM7D2xYQXDGK2qZqwqxSuco9Kaiecw2eFNSzGNPKxTlT0trY/89nWObEMPdcx0KKMS y6wfdaslTykUPqERy44pKjv21yp0WGFtjnkNQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765484287; x=1766089087; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=vSOFDwHnNnoJttrJPfoKS2t2/vvkqzfMwodIU+db6WE=; b=k8bs91389GofbPiNR7Rmy3YkAivurLgBF6MPqDfvQZK0EHL7HDKwDbA1UJca96VIzr E9AT2b0bAgPwgx5dLNrXcJJp+MFjwTyJOdIkS5KfXLsxJxPAJyn1rHe6uIgVhvE7kJUY Lk5WjxEpwuZMWn+1QyQhQDIWdZ1SJfv1SG6sD4iZ8+GZ+MBgoNSNPKI0zpoYQ6BTe7pw m5GanxslipEGafY/9PMD266I5q2ScWMX4DC4gsTkSc4HR3GRvkOGZNAV7Ili4ZA3Me8d T6lEMfSE2akHFt54ddOwWJzK19RMPBgUSrhntaWAIWDWDpzglQiUU1c7E8ADu2jDLE6V odkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx2w30pf82L4JtfoEKgpM0oLhAQYNIlwMXutZ9wGyvHBejzmSuZ 6fNMywTmMswu71jl9AehxdlLqSGr8inm37Duyy5OY5wbu/Gd2hORGiBoUWXCgCX66w== X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX4YGmpzYiFkUpXMA2i6JyR1bW0lOUBeccgORGINDM9C+uvnfer/nlTk5B4AR0+ qu9otvJNs9aIgkR0U6juAdm8BAzceVPOYjV4RMp3uWv7a4jj99fKB2KNL1hkTt+fVCJ3N+k17/e s1TDD64KI049bPbBVZDlEYsBD2g2INCyvHn0s7vbjpDnezDX3ESGQcjQS74ZiYo4b0fwTKrQU/B M+ZUkgDOVC10psL9wvhBpQlNqVw6Ajz3MwDDSRPGqKdFYqB/nVEWJ23umzI3ChueS8MA5dOzK/9 gXZ5xrxobFN+Qb2Lom/ZFdoMeGbKy0QM4HW8Q82jwmP/U4k+UyoUxkxIw80hfI8WnGm/4g5U8f5 NQf0WHORZR2eXH3ULoP4mgg5Ta3D1GB5n6W67wca1eZfNmC9vro6Y18+c+DcbsZiqIIdrcXmyZF lRn3uJ85zULvJaGGkpixtaHrPn0tDpkYljto44zU/lRUjLu8CQJFq9DmrlUz5xW7OKx51fZhvZR 5fsmNs7GMaww/40QCHqEBjiLwxNm+c3FyQecQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFbheccje8KpTgBdnLTr6Ts781QlwPbCfFfM8bnYD0m3Nlimev/jQDfSRzhRw7Suq5C/lJRRg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:2591:b0:341:730a:ef54 with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-3683914a177mr3100436637.1.1765484287527; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:18:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (107-215-223-229.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-7f4c4aa717fsm3309433b3a.36.2025.12.11.12.18.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:18:07 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3864.200.81.1.6\)) Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:17:56 -0800 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Steve Kargl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3864.200.81.1.6) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dS3mx65z0z3T9n On Dec 11, 2025, at 10:13=E2=80=AFAM, Steve Kargl = wrote: >=20 > In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to > the compilers options to generate profiling information, > which could be consumed by gprof(1). cc -pg seems to work for me but not gcc.= From nobody Thu Dec 11 20:57:24 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dS4fR1Hwdz6KMLp for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 20:57:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-c2p-570502.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-c2p-570502.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fd00:56::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dS4fP0S4bz3frk for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 20:57:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=comcast.net header.s=20190202a header.b=zPPsSqiX; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=comcast.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kargls@comcast.net designates 2001:558:fd00:56::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kargls@comcast.net Received: from resomta-c2p-555661.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.18.228]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-c2p-570502.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id TmUfvebNMR34CTnj4vlnkK; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 20:57:26 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1765486646; bh=j/1mbIChKtZmAp7z4RlXyzQqgWgeTNlydGADi1y1kYU=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From: Content-Type:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=zPPsSqiXEM2KVr8lmKaf8ElaSMAeagySzUzk6Qsc3w0V1SqQmQADixPMJSfnq99ui Q/XISrUo/Bj5APbTXbTPl9F2TRvhEptEGJHioZgpZFOd1Px+z9r4a0yvzAbYfJzBXB cItsrbaO5Wbf+LH2NKcVbyl5o39upYhsmE4/uSPDd1Bu1t37VaICf30cc2JniFZrUR iuNCxMv/tYgUhfzB1CIe+XY4ArMG2/98zY/ral3DJ8qKFr/5dL/inMpokZV1/IV7MY 0UxiSwfnHSEVWslR6hTTQB6TxY9nPsVlMzdANr+NG+vC1BO2kv7BI3Z0HugpKuxLj2 60Xsyq6Yg+GiA== Received: from [10.0.0.30] ([73.97.237.216]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-c2p-555661.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id Tnj2vMhtXEXFpTnj3vbPxw; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 20:57:25 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:57:24 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Steve Kargl In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfA5MxU6abTEGsKHdHl5uvJZpbU+R+THGPz7OLA6Mb4vl5V4rbcUruJpZHhxX/+ddaJhveHYcxCeR0vBkjWCTAimISVH7H86UDUHK4bNMF45zIzue9QOW 0+Yv3zloBAds3FZLF5V14fxWS+jLcrkrL4dHlQFcXvamI+xU4m7BxlVmuXKNM69OAkAueraKHobnGA== X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.01 / 15.00]; HFILTER_HELO_5(3.00)[resqmta-c2p-570502.sys.comcast.net]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[comcast.net,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[comcast.net:s=20190202a]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:558:fd00:56::/64]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[comcast.net]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:2001:558::/29, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[comcast.net]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[comcast.net:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[comcast.net:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dS4fP0S4bz3frk On 12/11/25 11:50, Paul Floyd wrote: > > On 2025-12-11 19:13, Steve Kargl wrote: >> In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to >> the compilers options to generate profiling information, >> which could be consumed by gprof(1). > ... >> So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, >> profile an executable?  A google search suggests pmcstat(8) >> may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage >> message printed to the terminal.  I'm simply trying to >> determine where my code is spending all of its time. > > > Possibly the reason that gprof was removed is that it is now obsolete > and has been replaced by gprofng (at least in the GCC world). gprofng is > derived from the old Sun compiler profiling tools https:// > blogs.oracle.com/linux/gprofng-the-next-generation-gnu-profiling-tool. > Has there been any effort to port that to FreeBSD? I can't see any > mention on freshports. > > > My recommendations are > > 1. Persist with pmcstat. I found it hard to use as well. If you want to > use PCMs it's the only one > > 2. Use Google Perftools. You'll need to install the port and link with > lib tcmallloc. > > 3. Use Valgrind callgrind/cachegrind. They are rather slow and do not > accurately model modern CPU speculative execution/branch prediction/ > cache architecture. > > For 2 and 3 you are likely to want to use kcachegrind to view the > results. Google Perftools can output in other formats. > > If you are interested in heap profiling as well, look at > > a) heaptrack > > b) Valgrind massif (slow but handles difficult cases that heaptrack > can't cope with) > > c) Valgrind DHAT (slow and a bit hard to interpret the results but I > fond that it gives plenty of interesting data on heap access patterns). Thanks Paul for the pointers. I have valgrind installed and use it to check for memory leaks and use-after-free issues with gfortran. I'll read up on your 2 and 3 and see if I can get the info I need. Simply looking for routine foo() accounts for 60% of execution. 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[107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5a478bee46e88-2ac190acd01sm10201828eec.1.2025.12.11.14.04.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Dec 2025 14:04:04 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3864.200.81.1.6\)) Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: <529ccc11-3c0c-4da4-83d3-cf2bca143543@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 14:03:53 -0800 Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <02939D7C-5272-408D-BCDB-08150F367822@iitbombay.org> References: <529ccc11-3c0c-4da4-83d3-cf2bca143543@comcast.net> To: Steve Kargl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3864.200.81.1.6) X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.996]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[iitbombay.org,quarantine]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[iitbombay.org:s=google]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[comcast.net]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[iitbombay.org:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[bakul]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dS67H45pfz3nrS On Dec 11, 2025, at 12:52=E2=80=AFPM, Steve Kargl = wrote: >=20 > On 12/11/25 12:17, Bakul Shah wrote: >> On Dec 11, 2025, at 10:13=E2=80=AFAM, Steve Kargl = wrote: >>>=20 >>> In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to >>> the compilers options to generate profiling information, >>> which could be consumed by gprof(1). >> cc -pg seems to work for me but not gcc. >=20 > Yes, the system clang appears to work, because it does not > (and never?) used libc_p.a, libm_.a, etc. gcc/gfortran > also work (once the *_p.a are overridden) if one specifies > -O0, which is not what I need. Unfortunately, >=20 > % flang21 -o z -O2 -pg accrue.f90 > flang-21: error: unknown argument: '-pg' =46rom https://flang.llvm.org/docs/FlangCommandLineReference.html -fprofile-generate Generate instrumented code to collect execution counts into = default.profraw (overridden by LLVM_PROFILE_FILE env var) This doesn't do the right thing?= From nobody Fri Dec 12 00:49:20 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dS9p24YPFz6JwSY for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 00:49:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-h2p-567038.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-h2p-567038.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fd02:2446::7]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dS9p21BfGz47bJ for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 00:49:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from resomta-h2p-555357.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.199]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-h2p-567038.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id TrHkvfovjSoT1TrLWvCffa; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 00:49:22 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1765500562; bh=aMsViKqXPNl82AwQkxhsR7p0QvdINFU3vlrt/gLrfWM=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From: Content-Type:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=In03eKj5b3z5sXVG0vREd5ZA64VigQKXG3IJCd+b/UnBuQft8cCnd7hDQ7RSgLUFc CYur1y2kTrvCH5jQlF2pmFeqEAQDPCvfxu14wBGINsrhBc4Maa+lzgT17lGAI5/Ara nghqn0s+oO2YEbbH9MQI5i9bqiawnb5eQUIGHgJBcJU5k5rDj+BoM9qozZ2S6FE/eJ R0Kd9S5t2mNb8pKt7I1RlIWBvYbnL75g617yRc7YszMIaZukUSl4pGpCQyO9XFi2qG 4vblZRW4NBTqZSYKhE69AfgptVz+X0Dtote+5LgOAUGhkCtDYsubGFffFulr+aRCpc Lr4TCJKU9XVIA== Received: from [10.0.0.30] ([73.97.237.216]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-h2p-555357.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id TrLUv2QgjIZGSTrLUvjtrj; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 00:49:21 +0000 Message-ID: <433a8083-13cb-4f88-b66f-ebdb38ecb5da@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 16:49:20 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? To: Bakul Shah Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <529ccc11-3c0c-4da4-83d3-cf2bca143543@comcast.net> <02939D7C-5272-408D-BCDB-08150F367822@iitbombay.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Steve Kargl In-Reply-To: <02939D7C-5272-408D-BCDB-08150F367822@iitbombay.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfIa/fgN9lh6UyG/DwaN40AP0vR3i1VrtindjQWi+DU8DXfS+Q/3ZY6PA73OkHnGiB6qZLw1doPAdm6r0Fx7uWhwLczoFZj6gFnHZwKDuwc3wUgncgmAe 16FNCdD8cJDmbl7R8ALTb0A1HaJPtgg2+hjwBSJr1EupyoI/DMIi8qPMZQTmKVbIBumCk8urrSf3wJ3Y8uB4DHY06cJDUhJYns8Y4Jhz0a//9/MDgEGoPG+r X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:2001:558::/29, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dS9p21BfGz47bJ On 12/11/25 14:03, Bakul Shah wrote: > On Dec 11, 2025, at 12:52 PM, Steve Kargl wrote: >> >> On 12/11/25 12:17, Bakul Shah wrote: >>> On Dec 11, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Steve Kargl wrote: >>>> >>>> In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to >>>> the compilers options to generate profiling information, >>>> which could be consumed by gprof(1). >>> cc -pg seems to work for me but not gcc. >> >> Yes, the system clang appears to work, because it does not >> (and never?) used libc_p.a, libm_.a, etc. gcc/gfortran >> also work (once the *_p.a are overridden) if one specifies >> -O0, which is not what I need. Unfortunately, >> >> % flang21 -o z -O2 -pg accrue.f90 >> flang-21: error: unknown argument: '-pg' > > From https://flang.llvm.org/docs/FlangCommandLineReference.html > > -fprofile-generate > Generate instrumented code to collect execution counts into default.profraw > (overridden by LLVM_PROFILE_FILE env var) > > This doesn't do the right thing? Don't know anything about that option. It appears to be incompatible with gprof. % rm -f z.gmon % flang21 -o z -fprofile-generate -O2 accrue.f90 % ./z 100 5 % ls z.gmon ls: z.gmon: No such file or directory % ls defa* default_15816700636949365422_0.profraw % gprof ./z default_15816700636949365422_0.profraw gprof: file 'default_15816700636949365422_0.profraw' does not appear to be in gmon.out format Seems to be some binary file format. After a bit of googling, there is llvm-profdata. % /usr/local/bin/llvm-profdata21 show \ default_15816700636949365422_0.profraw Instrumentation level: IR entry_first = 0 instrument_loop_entries = 0 Total functions: 2 Maximum function count: 960 Maximum internal block count: 320 Total number of blocks: 5 Total count: 1288 No information about execution times. -- steve From nobody Fri Dec 12 00:50:41 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dS9qp64Kdz6JwT1 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 00:51:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-20.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic313-20.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.65.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dS9qn04X2z490H for ; 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4ff1f57f85ba76b08cffdba76bdd9130; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 00:50:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: RE: profiling a user executable? Message-Id: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 16:50:41 -0800 To: kargls@comcast.net, freebsd-hackers X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) References: X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.79 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.79)[-0.792]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[comcast.net,freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.83:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.83:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dS9qn04X2z490H Steve Kargl wrote on Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:13:27 UTC : > In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to > the compilers options to generate profiling information, > which could be consumed by gprof(1). >=20 > FreeBSD stopped shipping libc_p.a, libm_p.m, etc > (disabled in fe52b7f60ef4 and deleted in 3750ccefb8). > This breaks all lang/gcc* ports if one uses '-pg'. It is > not too difficult to fix lang/gcc* to avoid the missing > *_p.a files, but this seems to lead to invalid *.gmon files. > At least, for a Fortran application that I would like to > profile (compiled with gfortran), procedures in my libfoo_p.a, > appear in the profile, which I know with 100% certainty are > not referenced. >=20 > So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, > profile an executable? A google search suggests pmcstat(8) > may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage > message printed to the terminal. I'm simply trying to > determine where my code is spending all of its time. The below may or may not be sufficient for your purposes. (Also, my context has a root login for this. I've not tested non-root use.) The below starts after I'd already done: # kldload hwpmc ) Example starting commands: # pmcstat -O pmc.O -P ex_ret_instr openssl speed or: # pmcstat -O pmc.O -P ls_not_halted_cyc openssl speed [Note: aarch64 uses different names than ex_ret_instr and ls_not_halted_cyc for somewhat analogous event types. Also, .O is likely not the normal naming but I matched the letter to the command line option during my explorations.] -P is for process sampling. (There is also -S for System sampling.) It is followed by the name of an event type that will sometimes lead to a sample being taken. (retired instructions and non-halted cpu cycles examples are listed above.) There is an option -n EVENTCOUNT controlling the period (count of ex_ret_instr or ls_not_halted_cyc events to the next sample, as specified on the command line). Note: # pmccontrol -L will list more than just ex_ret_instr and ls_not_halted_cyc event-type names. (I reference pmccontrol because on aarch64 pmcstat -L does not produce the list but pmccontrol -L does in both contexts.) [I did ^C after the first line of "openssl speed" output rather than collecting a huge amount of data. Waiting notably longer I easily had 1 GiByte+ in the *.O file.] ) Having produced the pmc.O then produce .gmon files: [Note the directory name below that resulted matches the "ex_ret_instr" form of the pmcstat -P option that I used as my example : retired instructions.] # pmcstat -R pmc.O -g # ls -lod ex_ret_instr/* -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel uarch 28712 Dec 11 15:47 = ex_ret_instr/hwpmc.ko.gmon -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel uarch 7278714 Dec 11 15:47 = ex_ret_instr/kernel.gmon -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel uarch 46154 Dec 11 15:47 = ex_ret_instr/ld-elf.so.1.gmon -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel uarch 779088 Dec 11 15:47 = ex_ret_instr/libc.so.7.gmon -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel uarch 1838848 Dec 11 15:47 = ex_ret_instr/libcrypto.so.35.gmon -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel uarch 34880 Dec 11 15:47 = ex_ret_instr/libthr.so.3.gmon -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel uarch 354024 Dec 11 15:47 = ex_ret_instr/openssl.gmon (So repeated use likely means renaming the directory or deleting.) ) Having the .gmon files, use them with grof : [Note the use of the debug information file instead of /usr/bin/openssl for the example. Of course I do not now how your system was built or where your symbol information lives. So it is just an example.] [I'll not show looking at any of the other .gmon files.] # gprof /usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/openssl.debug ex_ret_instr/openssl.gmon | = less time is in ticks, not seconds None call graph profile: The sum of self and descendents is the major sort . . . granularity: each sample hit covers 4 byte(s) for 0.53% of 188.00 = seconds called/total parents=20 index %time self descendents called+self name index called/total children 0.00 188.00 308307/308307 do_cmd [2] [1] 100.0 0.00 188.00 308307 speed_main [1] 0.00 188.00 308271/308271 run_benchmark [4] 0.00 0.00 5/5 have_cipher [7] 0.00 0.00 3/3 have_md [8] 0.00 0.00 1/1 app_malloc [10] ----------------------------------------------- 0.00 188.00 308301/308301 main [5] [2] 100.0 0.00 188.00 308301 do_cmd [2] 0.00 188.00 308307/308307 speed_main [1] ----------------------------------------------- 188.00 0.00 308271/308271 run_benchmark [4] [3] 100.0 188.00 0.00 308271 EVP_Digest_loop [3] ----------------------------------------------- 0.00 188.00 308271/308271 speed_main [1] [4] 100.0 0.00 188.00 308271 run_benchmark [4] 188.00 0.00 308271/308271 EVP_Digest_loop [3] . . . flat profile: . . . granularity: each sample hit covers 4 byte(s) for 0.53% of 188.00 = seconds % cumulative self self total =20 time seconds seconds calls ms/call ms/call name =20 100.0 188.00 188.00 308271 0.61 0.61 EVP_Digest_loop = [3] 0.0 188.00 0.00 308307 0.00 0.61 speed_main [1] 0.0 188.00 0.00 308301 0.00 0.61 do_cmd [2] 0.0 188.00 0.00 308271 0.00 0.61 run_benchmark [4] 0.0 188.00 0.00 7 0.00 0.00 opt_cipher_silent = [6] 0.0 188.00 0.00 5 0.00 0.00 have_cipher [7] 0.0 188.00 0.00 3 0.00 0.00 have_md [8] 0.0 188.00 0.00 2 0.00 0.00 opt_md_silent [9] 0.0 188.00 0.00 1 0.00 0.00 app_malloc [10] 0.0 188.00 0.00 0 0.00% main [5] Index by function name [3] EVP_Digest_loop [7] have_cipher [9] opt_md_silent = =20 [10] app_malloc [8] have_md [4] run_benchmark = =20 [2] do_cmd [6] opt_cipher_silent [1] speed_main = =20 I was able to do similarly on aarch64 based on: # pmcstat -O pmc.O -P INST_RETIRED openssl speed and: # pmcstat -O pmc.O -P CPU_CYCLES openssl speed I did have to use: # pmccontrol -L to see the list of alternatives. pmcstat -L=20 reported: pmcstat: pmu features not supported on host or hwpmc not loaded =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com From nobody Fri Dec 12 01:21:16 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dSBVt06hSz6JyRc for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 01:21:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-h2p-567353.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-h2p-567353.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fd02:2446::3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dSBVs1xpPz4Fh1 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 01:21:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from resomta-h2p-555060.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.198]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-h2p-567353.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id Tmq9vMr7c175hTrqPvOrwe; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 01:21:17 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1765502477; bh=VOKcTp/IdKlbpNVJnAQOPU5i4aXzPBHKPrR2+vJSiIQ=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From: Content-Type:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=bj/cOAnhFH4G9CE+vkV9Nh4Ztmn0ZinLRSapOPMPE8xNu9mmaUQJQKb7CooYc5IFV /8vtA3JaFrMof6UwN+Gip4XUltMK+ifT4LTr/vazz1DP5EMsUD4s5HLV6rB/m/A+a1 Qmrm+iI6K4FCUi0I+k4oSaspZcRT1UUMfrCJdmwGAtLuBtWqGFn/UUoDuprBvG8URC SaDFWhR37zKMJyrF4MmUP6YdraIx8+CDEiJROjDKJIUqRmsJ0Y9lEynBE0GvC+pSP+ 1Kn+HNvGcXJ+Jl9E379VABAey3L08KwR6fYsTIkqn3FXUOmlqQ90Y78Ecef4fQ79dM /EtbGe9aNREuQ== Received: from [10.0.0.30] ([73.97.237.216]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-h2p-555060.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id TrqOvc49ip9Z3TrqOvc0HS; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 01:21:17 +0000 Message-ID: <93bffe4f-7bb0-4ed0-9754-45dc485ac0fb@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 17:21:16 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? To: Mark Millard , freebsd-hackers References: Content-Language: en-US From: Steve Kargl In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfE+RaFf+dUKuH5mVzVz3GotSnFgHTeMIJaeCDOiXrwur8BxKZB9OdITZObgPLd+RN/llqYihLLuu/elXWmUWqr3a3brljQh4SZ9V8oNFyRJqa4+NBzBw OlDag/gMkaMKSLu5NdlJQYu12u/Goja5QVb6m/7f9XTqacSb68eanttEIA6NVN7ghrAypuv7dRlbldAg8vHx6UWROStGLsGK8YyutLnwdLxi6rrmw8vc91dO X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:2001:558::/29, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dSBVs1xpPz4Fh1 On 12/11/25 16:50, Mark Millard wrote: > Steve Kargl wrote on > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:13:27 UTC : > >> In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to >> the compilers options to generate profiling information, >> which could be consumed by gprof(1). >> >> FreeBSD stopped shipping libc_p.a, libm_p.m, etc >> (disabled in fe52b7f60ef4 and deleted in 3750ccefb8). >> This breaks all lang/gcc* ports if one uses '-pg'. It is >> not too difficult to fix lang/gcc* to avoid the missing >> *_p.a files, but this seems to lead to invalid *.gmon files. >> At least, for a Fortran application that I would like to >> profile (compiled with gfortran), procedures in my libfoo_p.a, >> appear in the profile, which I know with 100% certainty are >> not referenced. >> >> So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, >> profile an executable? A google search suggests pmcstat(8) >> may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage >> message printed to the terminal. I'm simply trying to >> determine where my code is spending all of its time. > > The below may or may not be sufficient for your > purposes. (Also, my context has a root login for > this. I've not tested non-root use.) > > The below starts after I'd already done: > > # kldload hwpmc > > > ) Example starting commands: > > # pmcstat -O pmc.O -P ex_ret_instr openssl speed > > or: > > # pmcstat -O pmc.O -P ls_not_halted_cyc openssl speed > > [Note: aarch64 uses different names than ex_ret_instr > and ls_not_halted_cyc for somewhat analogous event > types. Also, .O is likely not the normal naming but I > matched the letter to the command line option during > my explorations.] > > -P is for process sampling. (There is also -S for > System sampling.) It is followed by the name of an > event type that will sometimes lead to a sample being > taken. (retired instructions and non-halted cpu cycles > examples are listed above.) Thanks. Understanding the various event types is likely the root of my issues. I'll see what 'pmccontrol -L' yields on the two very different x86_64 systems I use. > ) Having produced the pmc.O then produce .gmon files: > > [Note the directory name below that resulted matches the > "ex_ret_instr" form of the pmcstat -P option that I used > as my example : retired instructions.] > > # pmcstat -R pmc.O -g > I definitely misunderstood how the -g option worked. I did realize that it is essentially as a post-processing option for a previous recorded file. -- steve From nobody Fri Dec 12 22:14:33 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dSkJs5Hkfz6KPL6 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 22:14:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ahmadkhalifa570@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x1135.google.com (mail-yw1-x1135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1135]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dSkJr55Cmz3chw for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 22:14:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ahmadkhalifa570@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b="j/m+ffUt"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ahmadkhalifa570@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1135 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ahmadkhalifa570@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw1-x1135.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78c8d74bf4cso15906587b3.1 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 14:14:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1765577675; x=1766182475; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:in-reply-to:references:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=gy3WxhdjzBlkibHr7g2IUeUmuGEkQwxaWTS001wXTtw=; b=j/m+ffUtpCqAHNZRP3WUAt2VyAe2NK+3saqvI9WKZKPvd8AsNpyvjIy/ljO8UAqJ6l bV3EF9oUpqlM8OAtHp48FEIw5y3F9rljBZzxRHI7B1NArdPjCpgXJ5XUherIiVc39Z01 6rfq2HMW0T4U9XiF3tD6VLVQ6uCsMisGQ0DNx96hxwVE/zBE0Dy7NarrycdRektadj1J xu2ebMMDG5aLwfK3vSwrqjiib5DAjSn/Y8hugKeAHsmPLPIqp6TGgBwlIWCdzXK80L1S PiFTWjV+71cPWsjTjtEHkcUzGebzLCZcnoS9OL34NqGNzT1jTgc3oKtknn1gQeRKkFMm nN1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1765577675; x=1766182475; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:in-reply-to:references:from :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=gy3WxhdjzBlkibHr7g2IUeUmuGEkQwxaWTS001wXTtw=; b=VdJG42IV6JVainNWxDk11RzZoZhWfDNnCycG0tfOFSWX2nVhcVBG8lG1rrVTIJ1hPO NDfDniGT5d56pO6oYQh8FCyvBni4S04ryznzP9y57Q779w8k7xYYDosrReuq7Hb/440a d65N9TqSUtj0wJoQJrZjaIgvomQERS4TvK5Zu0WxHaA8xiX/LrnC9aCKebH261jFzbhh 4K+0ul/vCE3HopCtuD6bX/WUzWFX4ARq2sWHMFuaATNw82KPdvq2yw4uqVf4AiNLsYLJ DAWg3uHuMag30LL3FMY6kKiz5JXJ97aiKbqlRGydQVGjpR+L8cROe3ucfphWX4hy0ZEs 1mdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy04ib9hkSuMaWU8FvZuXr6uHY2DPuVsn7G8RD98b9Xh1+pRVu9 ZRepioujPHr4/jQV9OMxDZC3ttNmthpYH+nH9N16Wyd9mwCvuMXTTQZbYBQkkZo8AGiTOKLtqnU Upwv48M+uFpL91YvTq1qSaFRY/McQvzg= X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX5Ake/ik1U6zGE8uuLcu3odTGggMonkhY1cHvjAC4SmMF/vpAwgGbO1R+GaGWq YyoyymD9Co0zkN7BD0Fwj9XYaMeHjUinvlwBF/7NayT8iXgTVOAb5iJPmSFzixLWGIWXx28gV3D HwiSB8/9xJ2Bb+9exlhEfCT8MEJvNojQlz1lYXHF9dozX12jx9uOawFzr4apH7FizL0mwzWMMeB xQfjV+SDXgXgOdShMmtdbx8NNf8XfCWJ/5LhiPc8pq54bZ2b0S+dx6tehrXlitmcs1xPw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFWhJ28EtVaM21a5W3Y7rGJM4vf/zDcA1iKv+es2ESstgBGvlnYSxsnBDKeUx4z9rSU8dWkwnL6vu49pNIIeoo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:1446:b0:645:5640:e858 with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-6455640ea82mr2299514d50.5.1765577674509; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 14:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 490177373942 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 14:14:33 -0800 Received: from 490177373942 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 12 Dec 2025 14:14:33 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Ahmad Khalifa X-Mailer: aerc 0.21.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2025 14:14:33 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2pvFjeDUAcUsoifpp20cAaIxbicraBXLa6IvImHCLAQ1GhPLCbWeYdAWDQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? To: Steve Kargl Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.06 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.941]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.62)[-0.621]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[comcast.net]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::1135:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dSkJr55Cmz3chw On Thu Dec 11, 2025 at 8:13 PM +0200, Steve Kargl wrote: > In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to > the compilers options to generate profiling information, > which could be consumed by gprof(1). > > FreeBSD stopped shipping libc_p.a, libm_p.m, etc > (disabled in fe52b7f60ef4 and deleted in 3750ccefb8). > This breaks all lang/gcc* ports if one uses '-pg'. It is > not too difficult to fix lang/gcc* to avoid the missing > *_p.a files, but this seems to lead to invalid *.gmon files. > At least, for a Fortran application that I would like to > profile (compiled with gfortran), procedures in my libfoo_p.a, > appear in the profile, which I know with 100% certainty are > not referenced. > > So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, > profile an executable? A google search suggests pmcstat(8) > may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage > message printed to the terminal. I'm simply trying to > determine where my code is spending all of its time. Just throwing in another option, you can use dtrace's profile-n probes. Take for example the following probe that fires at 97hz: # dtrace -c 'primes 0 0x10000000' -n \ 'profile-97hz /pid == $target && arg1 / { @[ustack()] = count(); }' \ -o stacks This creates an associative array with ustack() as the index, and increments the count each time it's called. The resulting file will contain a list of each stack trace, and how many times it was hit by the profile probe. $ head -n22 stacks libc.so.7`0x34777d6e1100 libc.so.7`fflush_unlocked+0x6e libc.so.7`0x34777d6dc62f libc.so.7`0x34777d6e5324 libc.so.7`vfprintf_l+0xbb libc.so.7`printf+0xa4 primes`0x346f5aa18b6a libc.so.7`__libc_start1+0x12f primes`0x346f5aa184a1 `0x597f8fc03008 1 libc.so.7`0x34777d6e2400 libc.so.7`vfprintf_l+0xbb libc.so.7`printf+0xa4 primes`0x346f5aa18b6a libc.so.7`__libc_start1+0x12f primes`0x346f5aa184a1 `0x597f8fc03008 1 After that, you can analyze the data however you want. I wrote a crude awk script that turns this into something a bit more readable. $ cat scr.awk BEGIN { cnt = 0; i = 0; } { if ($0 ~ /`/) { gsub(/ /, "", $0); tarr[i++] = $0; } else if ($0 ~ /[0-9]$/) { o = --i; for (; i >= 0; i--) { arr[cnt, "name"] = tarr[i]; arr[cnt, "ind"] = o - i; arr[cnt, "sig"] = s; arr[tarr[i], s] += $0; cnt++; s = tarr[i] s; } i = 0; s = ""; delete tarr; } } END { for (i = 0; i < cnt; i++) { for (; arr[i, "ind"] > 0; arr[i, "ind"]--) printf " " printf "%s (%fs)\n ", arr[i, "name"], arr[arr[i, "name"], arr[i, "sig"]] / 97 } } $ awk -f scr.awk stacks | head -n17 `0x597f8fc03008 (1.463918s) primes`0x346f5aa184a1 (1.463918s) libc.so.7`__libc_start1+0x12f (1.463918s) primes`0x346f5aa18b6a (1.288660s) libc.so.7`printf+0xa4 (1.237113s) libc.so.7`vfprintf_l+0xbb (1.113402s) libc.so.7`0x34777d6e5324 (0.381443s) libc.so.7`0x34777d6dc62f (0.257732s) libc.so.7`fflush_unlocked+0x6e (0.257732s) libc.so.7`0x34777d6e1100 (0.010309s) `0x597f8fc03008 (1.463918s) primes`0x346f5aa184a1 (1.463918s) libc.so.7`__libc_start1+0x12f (1.463918s) primes`0x346f5aa18b6a (1.288660s) libc.so.7`printf+0xa4 (1.237113s) libc.so.7`vfprintf_l+0xbb (1.113402s) libc.so.7`0x34777d6e2400 (0.010309s) If you don't mind a graphical approach, there's also flamegraph, which takes that dtrace output and makes a graph out of it: https://github.com/brendangregg/FlameGraph From nobody Sat Dec 13 02:12:23 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dSqbX1ssWz6KkJ5 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 02:12:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-a2p-658764.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-a2p-658764.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fd01:2bb4::6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dSqbW5VQyz44kS for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 02:12:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from resomta-a2p-647975.sys.comcast.net ([96.103.145.232]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-a2p-658764.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id UDo6vc0WQo30lUF7Zvpc9u; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 02:12:33 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1765591953; bh=7m371ZIRU786O9PCgzztyU3pvgt9pP1pbj3eBPdOf90=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From: Content-Type:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=o/Yge5UgS/fTmNI2AJPvf7LE7lQ0eZx4fYeFsqK+eis0juI9m6Hdrhl9/14GeYmV2 XvaO2nHq5YRA3EGx3DDdpWkpyjohvf6wE6FvrFC6/nYtvfK7iOWco+feGDtvGUvkFl FMkt+D4CKkeMHu6tnvuzNKrADiISLnEwxRNBwowIOaGW4+XXNt9F/mWMNLyEXQM3HC kNhM9aShTWFAwmo/S9LDUlM26+1gd5W00kwSk5RcGu0sFRD7Eu6s/k0u80DcGhhvuE mbGdUYJXa9EYNac2TG9+ri6DeTvD0ISn/0dk+UP/0b0ozPctNRJBExM7ZnIoVrZtY4 D7xV33Pb4XPYg== Received: from [192.168.204.14] ([128.95.76.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-a2p-647975.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id UF7PvH4Xytpb5UF7QvsqJy; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 02:12:31 +0000 Message-ID: <422262e2-654d-49ee-8776-776c0c0b24e8@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2025 18:12:23 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? To: Ahmad Khalifa Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Steve Kargl In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfPaAPRmKfhnwQ1kAlTSchGVDGG6ZwNTpFQ2tI9PWkWr3O8x9AnJILMvUKViv8Yl0vQmuh3IywJiRRe7FaBoQlCTgp4CiV2UB3n1pNI+RPkhOOCSxbjIn iHZmGGI61uIIquq/lcG7ZcWxlVsEh/rOsAo/2QazwwecejkQ4VzMxp0ybKtprDC14KMGqE+f+oGC5tKL/yHaxPTl+vpOX0y0tsi603kMNoHI5jZgtVNP0d55 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:2001:558::/29, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dSqbW5VQyz44kS On 12/12/25 14:14, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > On Thu Dec 11, 2025 at 8:13 PM +0200, Steve Kargl wrote: (snip) >> >> So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, >> profile an executable? A google search suggests pmcstat(8) >> may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage >> message printed to the terminal. I'm simply trying to >> determine where my code is spending all of its time. > > Just throwing in another option, you can use dtrace's profile-n probes. > Thanks for the reminder of dtrace. I haven't used that utility in previous work. I'll read up on its usage. -- steve From nobody Sat Dec 13 18:31:14 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dTFJh17dQz6Jqtq for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 18:31:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from leres@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dTFJh0K53z3cML for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 18:31:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from leres@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765650676; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=D1li3146K7EZis5nV/0zTenj1/ZRwG3kTt+la79sl9o=; b=c+kPCx1H5OebE+0I/aPS0hSeDVdvm+NZ/x1Jzy3bbLPxE14+WsCDEihTj3jNcphO8ELJl3 sAnYhqp9WkRtFLvl2SQnU6qK37g9n3WglhQOfZdC25nhGQdsxGhh9jIQn/7REuAjYZ4kjI Fx1xAw1PobKrsdV1cvRi3BcedTlkE3z3D7uowwu8kroWNtk0UHf3Q4BRYIqE9AzFyD5z2X rXnEtwrVyBISxnFh+UifnK4MBNLR3CrK71clFmmjBqh01rSkgXNxcFJajNmeS5QacWu24Z ztwMBpiUN5XL+Y7c2PkkWBt1D3Khl3crmjZAAdZ2b9rqACMtcpjIuw3lOBXDNw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765650676; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding; bh=D1li3146K7EZis5nV/0zTenj1/ZRwG3kTt+la79sl9o=; b=c/XNe6h4mSzU6mjf6bMJeDZVNdLg7YnWvM1+IUsd+R5q1Y27OJ5TefKpz3VrPnSuroHcei q47qbO3FM/wwPTvBT+KnNcNTQWOR4WDnqm7NxXaVrbnq8INgLRuH8qgokjSCTiu4H/hc6v L1wAt3eoDaU30T2bnTC7CUPgH0CqO+sgNdSBockDAby4bTpKhY+hhpoD1C5nkU8TIuF4j1 iHQ4iej+EfOiAOXx1dn2zzeQrUKWRwgYKFW2MxKfcqZ60zuafnMagSepAEpkZkoEJkcuy7 rUEcbVR8laClbb7JSVxhzO92prluBU3sy0CRZos5KV15u8HeqbZjE58NeRpm7Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765650676; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=EVN2rM37GfpCXtA7TxfjocXFD/UqhyLP5sfdT0vxtECWcxeirOQLnYLeKx8yahIhegi3E6 FIONuPMnC3ho9JGgZDBmXc59B8pygnHrgBhAPYbjEUoc36LGX2LQMvY//el9FHfVrm9J3O TLZ3lBrchrU1lglTeut/7reqtsdd5sMZwokajTfbJ2G+O/XP+Xjh90jU83yO+D2LhbF3vC J6z9AAjnE2ZIfG89YasLQvNxbdBMDXn+YJH+5df9dFJ/5vM/qd7KRpWsJltv9ILpwirpBE 6a90eOLF3FanSYirGBbysJLAsP/gvbtJm6AFjphJ76dOP/vbHDxY4iftcZfp9w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [IPV6:fd:1965::2] (unknown [IPv6:2600:1700:ab1b:6800::48]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: leres) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dTFJg60hkzNB3 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 18:31:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from leres@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <4b1f3729-c41a-473a-add2-352fbfb10ec5@freebsd.org> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2025 10:31:14 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird From: Craig Leres Content-Language: en-US To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Bug 288345: 14.3 poudriere generating D-wait processes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There appears to be a regression in 14.3. I only see it on my poudriere build server. I'm building ~1400 ports daily and sometimes I go weeks with a hang, sometimes it happens multiple days in a row. The PR is 20 weeks old: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=288345 I suspect if someone can get a good crash dump it will lead to a rapid fix. I've tried "sysctl debug.kdb.panic=1" several times without success and I'm starting to think there's something about my swap configuration that is problematic. Could we please get a little help with this PR? Craig From nobody Sat Dec 13 20:12:12 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dTHYK3tCPz6K0Zv for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 20:12:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Received: from resqmta-c2p-570216.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-c2p-570216.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fd00:56::6]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dTHYK1hk8z3nrY for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 20:12:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kargls@comcast.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from resomta-c2p-555441.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.18.240]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resqmta-c2p-570216.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id UVsQvotWt1BhuUVyQv6aJT; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 20:12:14 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1765656734; bh=QOhVWMY/tE4KDM3HPM5S1PNNBgG1KyRJ1OUWR3kdF+g=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From: Content-Type:Xfinity-Spam-Result; b=27RczX9WYAKyQOFaVovh7GfxI8XUbr769fBMerznZljLGNMBeUVH22e4EoFl//0sy coYlZ0SZBjV59NxcWEUnJ4UylOb9oHxNziUIidKZKb4GpdQ7O/rSIGw+3KVtp1Vrj4 bv6GN51QPRgVA7sRLw67vF7RVe1BEq2npwg9+Agjkefr98IPaZCZyI8hIHhIPNSbbz aQrJI55DC5MCwewGxV7sxTtFQBnHH4xCsPoANsQAIXiii1mI7OwLZAtXBLqn39XVm6 rnr7EQNPxP5mBgSd4GyvB5+izntUV2ztcW1Q25NzT42GoId42kLCPQjzb6oaFvpg0j avlHYWR1NiGlA== Received: from [10.0.0.30] ([73.97.237.216]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 256/256 bits) (Client did not present a certificate) by resomta-c2p-555441.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id UVyOvqwyAfkptUVyPvVb4u; Sat, 13 Dec 2025 20:12:14 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2025 12:12:12 -0800 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: profiling a user executable? To: Ahmad Khalifa Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Steve Kargl In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfDF6MuQ3ct8mhgDDdN1iB2KvxV7OceGKbclawtb9VwUZDUrQn5QNUyjTKdcUPPa3PexuvSrXcj8U1EIe4dVX2UsdIREpBjOH9Corebul9SpkzawCaJHy T6ehpmLik8oQpaqkmTDghCCySPDF94ZlY3DBH8kz02YxJUpoahfqdfJpa3O4+Gi1AIFOPQNDakv6Eq0UVj6bp1XmYGRXQ5+u1t81v9xBojhv0s95eFXplMXJ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7922, ipnet:2001:558::/29, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4dTHYK1hk8z3nrY On 12/12/25 14:14, Ahmad Khalifa wrote: > On Thu Dec 11, 2025 at 8:13 PM +0200, Steve Kargl wrote: >> In the days of yore, one could add the '-pg' option to >> the compilers options to generate profiling information, >> which could be consumed by gprof(1). >> >> FreeBSD stopped shipping libc_p.a, libm_p.m, etc >> (disabled in fe52b7f60ef4 and deleted in 3750ccefb8). >> This breaks all lang/gcc* ports if one uses '-pg'. It is >> not too difficult to fix lang/gcc* to avoid the missing >> *_p.a files, but this seems to lead to invalid *.gmon files. >> At least, for a Fortran application that I would like to >> profile (compiled with gfortran), procedures in my libfoo_p.a, >> appear in the profile, which I know with 100% certainty are >> not referenced. >> >> So, how does one in modern FreeBSD, as mere normal user, >> profile an executable? A google search suggests pmcstat(8) >> may be of use, but all attempts to use it lead to a usage >> message printed to the terminal. I'm simply trying to >> determine where my code is spending all of its time. > > Just throwing in another option, you can use dtrace's profile-n probes. > dtrace appears to be a useless for a mere user. % dtrace -n 'profile-99 /execname == "../../build/bin/tier -q"/ \ { @[ustack()] = count(); }' dtrace: failed to initialize dtrace: DTrace requires additional privileges Interestingly, dtrace(1) seems to lack a discussion about privilege. At least, 'man dtrace' with a search on 'priv' and 'group' reveals nothing useful. -- steve